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Understanding the World April 11, 2013 - Carl Wilkens — Transcript

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0:20Shalom welcome to understanding the
0:23world with Rabbi David Kaufman I'm
0:25joined in the studio today by Mark
0:28felstein of the Jewish community
0:30relations commission for the Jewish
0:32Federation of Greater De Moine and we
0:34will be joined on Skype uh in a few
0:38minutes uh by Carl
0:40Wilkins um who will be uh sharing with
0:44us uh his story about Rwanda staying
0:48behind in
0:49Rwanda excuse me my nose uh about to
0:52sneeze there uh and um all his work in
0:57Saving hundreds of of or orphans uh and
1:01other children in Rwanda during the
1:03genocide an absolutely wonderful person
1:06um we also work together um uh in our
1:10efforts uh to help the people of Sudan
1:12combat genocide in that country and so
1:16uh hopefully uh we'll be able to talk a
1:18little bit about combating genocide in
1:20other places around the world as
1:23well the big topic that's uh going on
1:27this week is the continuing ratcheting
1:29up of tension
1:30uh in North Korea with South Korea uh
1:34and while there are certainly lots of
1:36jokes about um uh the the uh leader of
1:40North Korea sending Transformers his
1:43Transformer toys to the border to fight
1:45and and all and uh people wanted to give
1:48him a Snickers bar so he can turn in
1:50from the Mad Tyrant to the guy who did
1:53gangdom style um the the the the jokes
1:57the jokes are good but the situation
1:59really isn't
2:00and um we try to make light of
2:02situations through our humor uh this is
2:05a situation that is not very light and
2:07um we really are concerned that
2:09hostilities could break out the United
2:12States has sent uh a significant amount
2:15of of military assets into the region uh
2:19to use uh in a potential conflict South
2:22Korea has has dramatically increased its
2:25military awareness North Korea is is
2:29basically on full alert and the problem
2:31with that kind of situation is very
2:32little could happen and tip it over into
2:34actual combat um so we hope that cooler
2:38heads will prevail and the situation in
2:40North and South Korea and the Border
2:42region there um will uh be much better
2:45next we talk next week um the situation
2:49in the Middle East uh regarding uh Syria
2:52and Iran remains unchanged uh there
2:54really is not much of any information
2:57that has come
2:58up uh and and uh the the the big
3:03information really the big news this
3:05week really is that it seems that there
3:07is a push to try to get some sort of
3:10negotiations uh uh off the off the
3:14ground um from the perspective of the
3:16United States uh working with Israel uh
3:20the the possibilities still appear to be
3:23relatively limited as far as how that's
3:25going to go uh there's now even more
3:28turmoil in the Palestinian Authority
3:30with Salam fad evidently tendering his
3:33resignation over some conflict about uh
3:36a deputy advisor or something along
3:38those lines and so um that situation
3:41clearly would have to be resolved before
3:43the Palestinian Authority could even
3:45negotiate because the uh even negotiate
3:48with Western Representatives because the
3:50Western Representatives really have more
3:52confidence in Salam fiad than they have
3:54in the pales in the rest of the
3:55Palestinian Authority leadership so uh
4:00we are uh in a situation where there's
4:02lots of different things that we could
4:04talk about and we will be talking about
4:05them in the next few weeks um we have a
4:08wonderful article that I'd love to share
4:09with you if we have some time later on
4:11in the show um from Ahmed hashimi um who
4:16wrote that anti-Semitism is why the Arab
4:19Spring failed it's a great article
4:21that's found in the Times of Israel if
4:23we don't get to it today I hope that you
4:25will uh take some time and look it up um
4:28and uh uh the the interesting situation
4:34here is and the sad situation here is
4:37really that as people uh as the Arab
4:41world is finding more freedom uh from
4:44tyranny uh they're also finding more
4:47opportunity to espouse anti-Semitism and
4:50and in the in the uh in the guidelines
4:53of theocracy and uh the the islamism
4:57that has risen in the region not only is
5:00impacting places like Sudan where
5:02there's ongoing genocide but it's it's
5:05becoming more and more to impact U the
5:07lives of Arab citizens throughout the
5:09region we'll talk more about that uh in
5:13the days and weeks ahead thank you
5:15that's the world in 5
5:18minutes from the Remax real estate
5:21concept Studios this is webcast one live
5:25I'm Brian leech owner and general
5:27manager of service Legends I brought
5:29long couple of the Home Comfort Heroes
5:32hi I'm Tammy WS I am Nick wondershot I'm
5:34administrative manager I am the senior
5:36technician I'm service Legends it seems
5:39like every good thing when you feel it
5:40to the bone that it's good there's a lot
5:42of hard work put behind it I just I
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5:47seem like okay that's just weird it's
5:49just a furnace why would you believe so
5:51deeply in a furnace it's not just that
5:53you know we want to show the world that
5:56you can have good service yeah I mean
5:59it's got got to be it's your home you
6:01know it's it's built into our daily
6:02trainings it's built into our culture um
6:05that we're going to do whatever it takes
6:07to have each clients say they love us
6:08period that's why we spend all the hours
6:10in the training that we do and if we
6:13guarantee it's going to be a good
6:14experience for you or else it's free
6:17what type of work do you think we're
6:18going to do there is a guarantee
6:21temperature selection guarantee fix rer
6:23it's free guarantee Comfort guarantee
6:24best value guarantee all of these
6:26guarantees hold us accountable to
6:28ensuring that we exceed your
6:29expectations and if for whatever reason
6:31we'd fail and we can't make it right we
6:33guarantee all of those guarantees with
6:35100% money back guarantee I mean if you
6:37don't think that your technician can fix
6:39it right are you going to say that to a
6:40client no you don't have to worry about
6:43having a technician come to your house
6:45we drug test background check all of our
6:46team members we put safe people in your
6:48home each and every one of our service
6:50techs 400 hours a year in training you
6:52tell it the minute they walk in the door
6:54they know what they're doing they've
6:55done their homework and they actually
6:57truly care about what you want cuz at
6:59the end of the day you're the person
7:00that makes sure I have a job they're
7:01going to be listening they're going to
7:03want to know what your challenges are
7:04then they're going to come and give you
7:05options and and you get to choose if I'm
7:07there to help and I make it easy and
7:08painless I did my job right that day
7:10well when it comes to your comfort
7:11safety and your family you know you
7:13don't necessarily go buy the most
7:14expensive but you get the most bang for
7:17your buck oh it's worth it because
7:18there's a lot of people that will find a
7:21way to get it to work right now and then
7:23leave and then come back charge you
7:25again and and the cycle just repeats
7:27itself so when I'm out there looking at
7:28the furnace I want want to find why it
7:30failed the day how can we change the
7:31part today with something that you're
7:33not going to have to worry about is it
7:34worth changing the part today I mean you
7:36can put a lot of money into a furnace I
7:38can fix Parts all day there's a good job
7:39security in that for me but is it the
7:41right thing for you I get a lot of the
7:43phone calls of after the technicians are
7:45there they're just in awe they're like
7:48wow you guys are great I mean I don't
7:50even know what to say you guys are great
7:52everything you did was perfect it's
7:53great keep going though I like this just
7:57give us a try I'm going to take all the
7:58risk I've got the time to make this
8:00right I've got the support to make it
8:02right just check us out and if you don't
8:04see the value in what we do I mean fixed
8:06writer it's free or 100% money back
8:09that's
8:13said Shalom welcome back understanding
8:16the world with Rabbi David Kaufman I'm
8:18joined in the studio by Mark finlin of
8:20the Jewish Federation of Greater De
8:21Moine and uh we're going to be joined
8:24shortly uh by Skype uh by Carl Wilkins
8:28um Carl fkin as a humanitarian Aid
8:31worker moved his family to Rwanda in the
8:33spring of 1990 uh when the genocide was
8:36launched in 1994 car refused to leave
8:40even when urged by his friends his
8:42family uh his church and the United
8:45States government uh most of uh most all
8:49in fact all of uh the United States
8:51citizens uh left the country Carl was
8:54the only one left and uh he went out
8:57each day into the streets uh filled with
9:00uh mortars and gunfire uh working his
9:03way through roadblocks and all kinds of
9:06other um uh problematic things that were
9:09going on there uh bringing food water
9:12and medicine to groups of Orphans
9:14trapped around the city uh his action
9:17saved the lives of hundreds of people
9:19car returned to the United States in
9:211996 after being featured in the 2004
9:24PBS Frontline documentary ghosts of
9:27Rwanda about the Rwanda genocide and he
9:29began to receive all kinds of inquiries
9:32to have him speak and uh and other
9:34things in January of 2008 with no end in
9:37sight to the ongoing genocide in Dar 4
9:40Carl uh decided to quit his job and
9:43dedicate himself fulltime to accepting
9:45these invitations he and his wife Teresa
9:47have since formed an educational
9:49nonprofit World outside my shoes to
9:52facilitate this important work and it's
9:55an honor uh to have Carl Wilkins join us
9:58by Skype this morning hello Carl how are
10:01you morning da how are uh doing well
10:04thanks how are you doing uh good I think
10:06we need to get our headphones on here
10:08just a second all
10:13right the sun is just coming up here in
10:15San Diego it's a gorgeous morning I hope
10:19you've got nice weather wherever you are
10:21well we we have a cold and overcast
10:25Skies today yeah night nice is not how I
10:27would describe it here in De Moy but I'm
10:30glad it's glad it's wonderful in San
10:31Diego I think that I think that's part
10:32of what why people live in San Diego
10:35yeah I I I think so you know I asked
10:37them yesterday is it always like this
10:38and they said yeah pretty
10:40much yeah I can I can see it looks like
10:42it's glowing behind you uh so so um
10:47we're we're looking forward to having
10:48you come uh to to Iowa on April 20th as
10:51well and and uh having you speak at the
10:54temple uh April 20th at 7:30 p.m. that's
10:58Temple Benet Jes 511 grand for those in
11:01De Mo for those who are interested in
11:03coming um but tell us a little bit about
11:06uh your
11:08story well um I I fell in love with
11:11Africa as a college kid I had a great
11:13service learning program and went to the
11:15trans Sky uh in South Africa in the 70s
11:20and and came back married this beautiful
11:22woman who said I'll go anywhere and we
11:24spent six years in Zimbabwe Zambia you
11:26know right out of college our daughters
11:28were born there
11:29and um then we got this opportunity to
11:32work in Rwanda in 1990 we moved to Kali
11:36um with this uh with the Adventist
11:39development relief agency as you
11:40mentioned there in the introduction
11:41building schools six months after we got
11:44there um the war a war started um went
11:48on for three years our work shifted a
11:50bit to include all the displaced people
11:52who were being chased out of the their
11:54homes by the war and uh then we came
11:57what we thought was going to be an end
11:58and a new beginning in Rwanda with this
12:00war over AR rusia peace Accord but there
12:03was a small group of people who said you
12:05know we will never share power and there
12:08was the beginning of this horrific
12:10genocide that uh engulfed the country
12:12there in
12:1394 and what was it like to to be to be
12:19alone as a Westerner during the genocide
12:22I I have I have difficulty imagining
12:24what it would be like to be behind in
12:27behind the lines and to do that kind of
12:29work during a genocide and and and what
12:33was it like with the the orphans and the
12:35children and and having to go through
12:38roadblocks with with food and how how
12:41come you were able to do that that
12:43people didn't go after you as
12:45well well there were times that they did
12:47threaten to kill me but that wasn't uh
12:50most of the time fortunately um they
12:53they uh let's see to be left alone I
12:56never felt alone there they were
12:58actually 10 of us um easily identifiable
13:02foreigners five Catholic Sisters of
13:04Charity from Spain two Catholic fathers
13:07German Frenchman um another Frenchman
13:09who stayed with his orphans and and a
13:11swissman with the Red Cross Philip
13:13guyard but but aside from those few
13:16foreigners I mean yeah there are six or
13:187 thousand before um but but aside from
13:21them you know Africa had been our home
13:24for 10 years and so our colleagues were
13:27there friends were there um neighbors of
13:30course still there uh we'd been living
13:32there for four years already our kids
13:34have been playing with the neighborhood
13:36kids so I think you know never really
13:39alone um but but then in terms of being
13:42able to do something during this
13:44horrible time it it really came down to
13:47relationships um when I was talking with
13:49some students at here at San Diego State
13:51University last night guy spent eight
13:53years in the Marines and um he's asking
13:55me you know come on how how just your
13:58presence how could that really you know
14:00make it happen because I'm sure he's
14:02thinking from a military mindset you
14:04know you got to have a strategy you got
14:05to have all the different things in
14:07place Logistics and huge Mount you know
14:09to be able to have a successful Mission
14:12and you know I just kind of shook my
14:13head and I said it was really about
14:15relationships relationships with the
14:17people who were in charge formed a
14:19relationship with the guy who was in
14:21charge of the city he's he's in prison
14:23now for genocide crimes against human be
14:25there for the rest of his life um
14:28relationships with guys at the
14:30roadblocks um guys to you know find some
14:33powdered milk at the market and and ask
14:35this little lady who's selling you know
14:37where'd you get that I need a hundred
14:38times that she would she would connect
14:40me with usually a soldier and a civilian
14:43who um who had a stack a stash of stolen
14:46powdered milk and I'd make a deal with
14:48them it was yeah it was just uh
14:53relationships Mark has a question hi
14:56Carl Carl can I ask you the nature of
14:58the people you met there were were you
15:01in the middle of two different ethnic
15:03groups to begin with
15:05OR really really glad you asked because
15:08a lot of times when people try to get
15:09their you know hands around a situation
15:11that's foreign to us um you're trying to
15:14figure out who's who and what labels
15:16apply and stuff and people heard hu as
15:18the majority tootsi as the minority but
15:20in reality in Rwanda they married each
15:22other by the thousands I mean it was so
15:25typical for person with one ID card to
15:28marry someone with the other ID card and
15:29then their kids are going to have the
15:30idid card of their dad and and and so
15:33the there really weren't these huge
15:35differences that a lot of people like to
15:37explain there in fact I honestly many of
15:40my uh neighbors colleagues I didn't know
15:43if they had a Hoo ID card or tootsi ID
15:45card before the genocide for many of
15:47them so um this was really a politically
15:50driven event that that um you know won't
15:53go into all the history but but that
15:55worked to construct an enemy and and um
15:59and for them the target worked best for
16:01you know various reasons as the the
16:04politicians were being threatened by the
16:06Rwandan patriotic front which was mostly
16:08Tootsie and then even other Hutu parties
16:11threatened them so this genocide was
16:13their solution to get rid of the threat
16:15both all of the tootsies and any
16:18moderate hus who didn't go along with
16:20their extremist
16:22ideology Carl were there any uh external
16:26groups of people whether neighboring
16:28countries or or the United States or
16:30other major Powers who had an influence
16:32on either of the the parties involved oh
16:37absolutely the the government of France
16:40um had long-term relationships economic
16:43political social relationships with the
16:46people of Rwanda you know I um I I feel
16:50like in in so many crisises around the
16:52world we've got to ask the question you
16:54just asked you know who are their
16:56Partners who has influence with them and
16:59um without a doubt the French and the
17:01Belgian I mean it had been a Belgian
17:02Colony but France over the years too had
17:05had started to play a more major major
17:06role to the fact that to the extent that
17:09they were training the Rwandan military
17:11uh at the beginning of the war it was
17:13French artillery that just really nearly
17:15destroyed the Rwanda patriotic front so
17:19without a doubt um that was a
17:21significant uh relationship that that
17:25could have been used to stop the
17:27genocide and and then um the United
17:30Nations was already in the country and
17:32so you know after World War II the whole
17:34world is saying you know this should not
17:36happen never again should families be
17:39slaughtered like this and we all sign on
17:40you know a convention there at the UN
17:43and now we've got this genocide erupting
17:46in Rwanda we've got 2,500 un soldiers on
17:48the ground and and and we vote to take
17:51them out which which is not just a
17:53simple vote but it but it is a simple
17:56reality that we had enough soldiers on
17:59the ground to have stopped this in the
18:01first days and we voted to withdraw them
18:05now what parallels just Rob by Koffman
18:08what parallels do you see with what's
18:10going on in Sudan I know we do a lot of
18:13work and when what went on in
18:15dar4 uh and I read earlier uh in in your
18:18bio that that you saw what was going on
18:20in Dar for and you decided to devote
18:22yourself to this kind of work um what do
18:25you see as a parallel between what's
18:28going what went in Rwanda what's going
18:30on in darur and I'm particularly
18:32interested in the world's response you
18:35know one of the I I I have to say one of
18:37the questions that I asked my
18:39confirmation students my 10th grade
18:41students this week as we were studying
18:42the Holocaust is when we say never again
18:46what does that
18:47mean what what does that obligate us to
18:50do as opposed to just say if we just say
18:53it it doesn't mean much what do we have
18:55to do to make that mean something yeah
18:59um you know darur is a genocide been
19:02going on there for nearly 10 years it
19:04some people say kind of like Rwanda but
19:06in slow motion each place is obviously
19:09unique and different and there and
19:11innocent people are caught up in the
19:13struggle of political powers vying for
19:16power you know um but but in terms of
19:19our response what we can do um I you
19:23know nobody really loves this word
19:25responsibility except to throw it at
19:27somebody else you know it's your
19:29responsibility it's your responsibility
19:31so so I ask that we that we cut the word
19:34in half and turn it around ability to
19:37respond and then we start thinking about
19:40what is our role what is our gifts what
19:42are our abilities um whether it's
19:44something with the social media and um
19:47and we need to help educate people on
19:48the stories and we're putting a link on
19:50our Facebook page and we're we're
19:52sharing or we're making a video clip
19:54with friends or you know we're we're
19:56helping to get the story out there
19:58that's that's something that has
20:00happened with DAR for um but did not did
20:03not um you know uh happen that that much
20:07with Rwanda um we're we're definitely
20:10getting a much uh much broader response
20:14in Dar four but it's still you know
20:16nowhere's near what we need because it's
20:19been going on for for 10 years and so um
20:22you know it's easy to say never again is
20:24meaningless and and I would say wait we
20:26need to stop and look you know what
20:27happened IV po here a while back a
20:29couple years ago in Kenya you know down
20:31in Zimbabwe are there times that
20:32Zimbabwe sorry that genocide has been
20:35stopped I really do think it it it has
20:38happened but but those times when it has
20:41happened have been when um I think it's
20:43a concerted effort grassroot movements
20:46together with high level uh government
20:49leaders making it a priority and
20:52physically flying to the place putting
20:54their feet on the ground um you know
20:57making that physical pressure presence
20:59known that that has made a difference
21:02I've been really encouraged by the
21:03student movement it's it's rising and
21:06kind of falling at times and Rising
21:08again as kids graduate and come into
21:10school and stuff but stand you know the
21:13student movement um against genocide uh
21:16the enough project and and other student
21:19uh well enough isn't all student but
21:21other projects they are making a
21:23difference they're giving us
21:25opportunities the question is now will
21:27we engage when the ability to respond is
21:30there whether it's with conflict
21:32minerals in the Congo you know and and
21:34paying attention what company we buy our
21:36laptop or cell phone from or or whether
21:39it is uh you know uh an advocacy
21:42campaign on Capitol Hill tools are there
21:441 800 genocide that's a tool that's
21:47there anybody can call that number and
21:49their voice can be heard in DC so so
21:52some tools are coming you know and and
21:55the question is now are we are do we
21:57have the will will we take the time to
22:00use some of those tools that are that
22:01are in
22:03place once one stops genocide what's the
22:07next
22:08step uh I think Rwanda is giving us
22:11fabulous examples of what that next step
22:14is um you know it's it's the ninth
22:16fastest growing economy in the world
22:18right now low corruption rate you know
22:20near a city of nearly 2 million and a
22:23mugging is nearly unheard of it's rare
22:25you know in the city much less a murder
22:27and and what is that I think been built
22:29on has been restoring the judicial
22:31system that's been a very huge part and
22:34and Rwanda said and I know this might
22:36not be a typical answer to a question
22:38what do we do after genocide but one of
22:40the smart things that Rwanda did was in
22:42their new constitution they said 30% of
22:45our decision makers in government will
22:47be women and so as a result 56% of the
22:50seats in Parliament are held by women in
22:52Rwanda and that role of women that that
22:55voice of a mother that says it's going
22:57to be all right you know I'm not going
22:59anywhere we're going to make it um is
23:02translating into into huge both economic
23:06boom and um accountability in government
23:09and and um a decentralization of
23:12government that's happening you know in
23:13Rwanda the leadership of President
23:16kagami is telling the people look this
23:19is your country the answers to the
23:21problems are in your hands not from
23:23somebody outside Partners from outside
23:25absolutely really valuable but the real
23:28final solution for our our troubles here
23:31are in the hands of you the people so
23:34one of the things the government does is
23:36gets the spending decisions closer and
23:38closer to the Grassroots level not in
23:41the five provincial levels but down at
23:43the 30 District levels and not satisfied
23:45with that on down to the 400 and some
23:47sector levels so I think that that uh
23:50sense among the people that that you are
23:53the solution is a huge part to um
23:57recovering from from genocide and and we
24:00could talk too about the gacha you know
24:02and about the confession of the
24:04perpetrators and a lot of programs that
24:06have been in uh put in place in Rwanda
24:09by the government by Churches nonprofit
24:11organizations and and and even local
24:14community groups but I think you know a
24:16justice system I think the role of women
24:19playing in the new government and a
24:20sense of this is our country Our Fate is
24:23in our hands are are three key things
24:26that that we've we're seeing modeled in
24:29Rwanda uh Carl what do the children
24:33understand about what
24:35happened really good question you know I
24:37was in Rwanda in January with a group of
24:39theater students from Buffalo State
24:41College and at the end of the visit I I
24:43got an email from a 19-year-old young
24:45man in Randa he says could could I meet
24:47with you you know before you and I was
24:49just about to fly out and actually about
24:51two hours before I flew out we met for a
24:53while sharp kids you know and he's like
24:56um I was just born at the time of the
24:57genocide and and I do ask my parents and
25:00I ask others but you know just like any
25:03place in the world some people are
25:04really reticent to talk about it others
25:06are more willing he says you were here
25:08tell me there's this there's this hunger
25:11among the young people um especially you
25:13know at College age as they're beginning
25:15to wrestle with different things of
25:17their past and and what's in the future
25:20and um while the while the education
25:22program is working on helping inform
25:24them Kali genocide um Memorial kagali
25:28genoci Center has a fantastic exhibit
25:31and they bring students in every week
25:33through there with Eis trust and and and
25:35collaboration with the kagali genocide
25:37Center um and um I was just on a
25:40conference called two nights ago with a
25:42group of teachers here in America who
25:44are working to facilitate um uh to help
25:48the Rwandan teachers in in how to go
25:50about teaching about the genocide but
25:52you know even though it's 19 years ago
25:54super sensitive when every kid in your
25:56classroom is either related to someone
25:58who died or someone who did The Killing
26:00and so one of the ways that it's been
26:02approached in Rwanda is let's learn
26:04about the Holocaust and as we learn
26:06about the Holocaust it's not the
26:08genocide right there your genocide in
26:10your face but it's this event that
26:12happened years ago but all of a sudden
26:14you begin to see these parallels and and
26:17so um so efforts are definitely being
26:20made intentional efforts both formally
26:22for for kids and then and then the young
26:24people themselves you know I'll get
26:26emails uh pretty much several times a
26:29month from some other young person in
26:31Rwanda thanking me for staying there
26:34which you know is really nice email to
26:36receive but but then asking the
26:38questions and they're they're um they're
26:40beginning to tell their stories through
26:41films um and through you know books and
26:45and so that's a great opportunity us to
26:48partner with the people of Rwanda to
26:50help them share their stories with the
26:52rest of the world and we can do that
26:54Facebook and so many other ways that's
26:57Wonder we're we're going to need to take
26:58a short break here in a minute but after
27:00our break Carl i' I'd love for you to
27:02talk about what it is that you teach
27:05about the Holocaust specifically what
27:07what resonates with um with the people
27:10in Rwanda what resonates with these
27:12students uh who are wanting to learn
27:15about their own genocides in Africa you
27:17and I both work uh dealing with Sudan
27:20also in the genocide that's ongoing in
27:22the nuba mountains and genocide and
27:24darur um and and uh I I think it's it's
27:28important for us to get into that uh
27:30what is what can we can we learn from
27:34the Holocaust and what can we um what
27:37can what really helps teaching people uh
27:40to stop it from happening again we'll
27:42talk about that after a short
27:46break from the Remax real estate concept
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29:36any phone calls offering to reduce your
29:37credit card debt hi I'm Tom coat with
29:40Consumer Credit of America and we're
29:42still your best choice for credit
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29:46and we can do more you make the call
29:48when the time's right for you when it
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29:54America from the Remax real estate
29:57concept studiio
29:58this is webcast one
30:01live Shalom welcome to understanding the
30:04world with Rabbi David Kaufman I'm
30:05joined in the studio by Mark felin at
30:08the Jewish Federation of Greater de moin
30:09and we're joined by Skype by Carl
30:12Wilkins um before we continue our
30:14conversation I'd like to thank our
30:16benefactor sponsor for this show Dr
30:19Ronald Bergman of Bergman fulkers
30:21cosmetic surgery and Spa uh for his uh
30:24all his support of this show and what we
30:26do enabling us to have have uh wonderful
30:29guests on our show and and to have uh
30:32this great studio and this opportunity
30:34to uh to share with you um thoughts from
30:37wonderful people like Carl Wilkins so uh
30:40Carl I I asked before the break about
30:43the Holocaust and what you teach and
30:46what you think it's important for the
30:48students to understand and what they
30:49find important uh in their own
30:52understanding can can you get into that
30:53a little bit yeah a little bit actually
30:56only because um I haven't been in the
30:59classrooms that much in Rwanda you know
31:01i' so so what I'll share with you is
31:03kind of secondhand from talking with
31:05teachers who are there and then a few
31:07experience that i' that I've had I mean
31:09I I remember particularly um one day uh
31:13I was with some Elementary School
31:15teachers in Rwanda one of these ladies
31:18had been teaching for 40 years so when
31:20you think about that hm back up 40 years
31:231962 boy that's right at the time Rwanda
31:26got independence so imagine all things
31:29that this that this primary school
31:31teacher in Rwanda had seen in her life
31:33the the violence that had happened in
31:35Rwanda in the late 50s and into the 60s
31:39again against Tootsie people um all
31:41these things she had witnessed and each
31:43day you know she's going to her simple
31:44little African classroom teaching and as
31:46we as we talked with her about the
31:49Holocaust um because she had learned
31:50about it over her career and stuff as a
31:52teacher in Rwanda um I think one of the
31:55things that was really important was
31:57that the people in Rwanda learned that
32:00um they're not alone and people have
32:03people have had a life after something
32:06as terrible as this because you know
32:08when you survive and you lose um you
32:11know so much if not all of your family
32:14what's the point of living many people
32:16ask you know and and so for them to see
32:19the stories and to see how the survivors
32:21of the Holocaust have gone on to develop
32:23GPS systems and to have lives and and
32:27and to ALS be part of Education to build
32:30peace in the world I think that after
32:34has been a huge encouragement for for um
32:37the people of Rwanda who are looking at
32:39that after um I think that also you know
32:42there was a big connection you know
32:45understanding um that that this idea of
32:48hatred and us and them you know is not
32:50unique to Rwanda Rwanda is not some
32:53cursed population group but this is a
32:56human problem all around the world the
32:59idea that my world would be better
33:01without you in it and and so so you know
33:05connecting with a government that was
33:07going you know sponsored executions
33:10Holocaust oranda they draw the parallels
33:13you know all over the place as well as
33:15there you know that there are many
33:17differences but I think just that sense
33:19of We're Not Alone um and uh there is
33:23hope afterwards and you know we can join
33:26in the core of people who are working to
33:29make this a genocide Free World um you
33:32know those are some of the things that I
33:34hear and and heard I just I wish I could
33:37show you this beautiful lady's face she
33:40must have been you know into her 60s
33:42still teaching school in Rand and I'm
33:44thinking boy the world needs to hear
33:46from this lady and I'm sure she'd love
33:48to sit down well like we did with a
33:50Teachers Conference with a holocaust
33:51Survivor and you should have seen the
33:52Rwandan students it was a Skype and they
33:54were coming up to the flat screen TV and
33:57asking their questions of this lady and
33:59you know and seeing just wow how how
34:02much they shared in common with this
34:04with this lady you know Skyping from
34:06Washington DC who had survived um
34:10asht now do do they have some sort of
34:15Museum um uh kind of thing for the
34:19Rwandan Genocide that that highlights
34:22individual actions I mean I I found kind
34:24of the
34:25individuals uh the individual stories
34:27are so
34:29important huge you know if you go online
34:33to Kali genocide Center or Kali genocide
34:36Memorial you will find um a great
34:39website a link to their to their um main
34:43Museum education center to the genocide
34:45in Kali and then throughout the country
34:48there are both just physical memorials
34:51like you know all of the mass Graves and
34:53things like that but then there's other
34:55um memorials educational Memorial else
34:58Moria is a very powerful one that's a
35:00very a very um how can I say provocative
35:05it it causes a lot of discussion because
35:08they've actually preserved some of the
35:09remains there and and um and so no
35:12they're they're making efforts churches
35:15that have had Slaughters happen in them
35:18you know they respectfully buried the
35:20bones at these churches but one of the
35:21churches all of the benches that served
35:23as pews are covered still with the
35:25clothing of the people who lost their
35:27Liv lives there so no these memorials
35:30are are available um all around the
35:32country and I mean you asked about the
35:34kids you know and what they know about
35:35it I remember visiting the church there
35:37and there's there with these with the
35:39clothes and the mass Graves and and
35:42outside walking right past it every day
35:44two precious little first graders hand
35:47inand in their sharp little school
35:48uniform you know they walk past this
35:50church every day on their way to school
35:52so so in many ways they know about it as
35:55a part of life and then in other ways
35:57though the question is always why how
36:01and you know unpacking those questions
36:02are the big
36:04challenges uh Carl what type of mental
36:07health services are available to people
36:10there um wide a wide spectrum I mean you
36:14know people have come in from the West
36:17wanting to to help with many good
36:19intentions and sometimes you know it's
36:22it's it's helped and sometimes it hasn't
36:25um I I can't really speak in detail from
36:29experience to the to the mental health
36:31that's provided both you know from the
36:33government level and the nonprofit
36:35organizations what I can speak more to
36:37is the type of mental health treatment
36:39that happens in everyday life in Rwanda
36:43and what I mean by that is um you know
36:45in many Western countries when a tragedy
36:48happens our home is broken into somebody
36:50is killed we we have the luxury at least
36:53the choice to move to another house
36:55perhaps even to another town or another
36:57country in Rwanda the people don't have
37:00that luxury and um and so they have to
37:03just because of poverty and other
37:05challenges um they have to deal with
37:07this and and for example um your
37:10neighbor she may be taking food to her
37:12husband who's in prison because of
37:14genocide and she might ask you to watch
37:16over her kids and you're like you know
37:19you're maybe a Survivor you don't want
37:20anything to do with this family and what
37:22they took from you and it could just
37:25overwhelm you but then you look at the
37:27kids and you go wow you know sure I'll
37:31watch your kids what what did they have
37:33to do with this and that whole idea of
37:34for our children has been a strong
37:37factor in Rwanda in in um forcing I
37:41guess you could say in many ways people
37:44to learn how to live together again and
37:46in that learning how to live together
37:48again I think they are finding healing
37:52in their heads and in their hearts
37:53they're beginning to redefine people not
37:56just as Killers but again as neighbors
38:00as a coworker in the rice Cooperative
38:03you know I might not want to work
38:04alongside I may not want to hoe
38:05alongside this person but but um for the
38:08sake of my family for um you know get a
38:12school uniform for my kids we've got to
38:14do this and and um so I think that kind
38:17of forced by life and necessity um
38:21sharing of whether it's Gardens or or
38:24you know somebody has one solar panel
38:26and everybody sharing off of it to
38:28charge their cell phone that daily
38:30living together I think is bringing some
38:33healing but but you know for those of us
38:36who don't speak kinyanda aren't living
38:39there today um we really only have a
38:41tiny glimpse of still the huge amount of
38:46healing that I'm sure still needs to
38:49take place and and so you know I'm a big
38:52believer in the power of stories and and
38:55again I would make the appeal that we
38:56can partner with the rwandans to help
38:58them tell their stories and as they tell
39:00their stories you know I I just don't
39:03know so much about formal part of mental
39:05health but I think the Practical
39:06day-to-day helping people tell their
39:08stories listening letting them know
39:10their stories are important for me
39:13that's been a important part of my
39:16healing when uh we talk about uh the
39:20Holocaust and and we go through the
39:22museum one of the the major um uh motos
39:26of the United States Holocaust Memorial
39:28Museum is what you do matters um and
39:32what you do as an individual matters and
39:34and in the Jewish tradition we talk
39:36about tikun and repair of the world uh
39:38but for me the the the statement the two
39:41statements that really stand out when
39:43we're talking about uh dealing with
39:46these kind of issues these overwhelming
39:48issues um is you one you can't stand
39:51idly by uh the blood of your the blood
39:54of your neighbor and the other one is uh
39:58um though
40:01uh while you can't finish the work uh
40:05neither can you desist from it if if the
40:08if the task is so large that you say how
40:10can I possibly do all of this uh you
40:13still can't avoid doing something
40:15because your individual action matters
40:18and uh and so I try to teach people that
40:21that they need to do something they
40:23can't just do nothing and so my question
40:25is when we're dealing with um not only
40:28individuals but we're dealing with
40:29governments you know what what what
40:32could uh the governments have done that
40:35would have made a difference and what
40:37can they do say in in dealing with nuba
40:40mountains and Blue Nile and dar four uh
40:43that can make a difference Samantha
40:45power um I know you know this Samantha
40:47power said basically here's here's a
40:49whole long list of why the United States
40:51has never done anything about genocide
40:53and it doesn't look like we're going to
40:54do anything about it anytime soon either
40:56what what do we need did what do we need
40:58to do um to have happen in your mind uh
41:02to get
41:04action you know I I think i' I'd like to
41:07take the two parts you're talking about
41:09the the um the personal part and the
41:11government part and see how those two
41:13parts actually fit together how can we
41:16rehumanize the government um there's
41:20there's a great campaign I just caught
41:22on to that was from last year where a a
41:25graphic designer in Israel said you know
41:27we're about to go to war for 10 years
41:29now with Iran I got to do something and
41:31he made this poster so you Google um
41:33Iran we love you we will not bomb you
41:35and you had a people's response to
41:38what's going on between their two
41:40countries and all of a sudden a people's
41:42movement started on the um on the
41:45Grassroots level connecting people from
41:47Israel with people from Iran you know
41:49they said we want to have coffee well
41:51it's kind of hard so they took two
41:52pictures facing each other on on
41:55Facebook of having you know a cup of
41:56coffee and this guy with a cup of coffee
41:58and and those are just some visual
42:00images but I thought to myself hm can
42:02this man from Israel actually tell the
42:04people in Iran we will not bomb you and
42:07and if somebody does bomb Iran or Iran
42:10bombs Israel um is that the people's
42:14action is that the government I think
42:15we've had for too long a huge separation
42:18between the idea of well the government
42:20should do this and well what should we
42:21as individuals do and we've got to find
42:24a way that those two come together and
42:27and I think that um
42:29that some specifics that could have
42:32happened in Rwanda for example that
42:34could have been people Grassroots driven
42:37would have been um say another radio
42:40station during the time of the Rondon
42:42genocide they argued over the
42:44technicalities of blocking the hate
42:45radio which in Rwanda was huge for
42:48carrying out the genocide I mean
42:49logistically we haven't seen say you
42:52know Bill Smith uh lately but somebody
42:55thinks they saw him down by the 7 on the
42:57corner of el in second and his license
42:59plate number is this I mean the radio
43:01was so specific in carrying out the
43:03genocide and so while we're arguing
43:05about the freedom of speech and blocking
43:07that hate radio in the country what
43:08about broadcasting another radio right
43:11now um we're seeing how how cell phones
43:15in every picture you see whether it's in
43:17the Middle East or Africa or wherever
43:19where there's trouble you see somebody
43:20who's who's holding up their cell phone
43:22you know and they're taking a picture of
43:24this and so I think um we can connect
43:28more with our governments guyan Kenya
43:30Kenyan wrote a software program before
43:33these most recent elections preparing in
43:35case there was violence that they'd be
43:37able to take all the influx of text
43:39messages from different parts of the
43:40country and be able to respond so I'm
43:43talking a lot of different ideas here
43:45but I think you know the principle I
43:47would like to see happen would be uh a
43:50re uh engaging a sense of ownership that
43:53a government is really me and and um
43:57that I can through you know here in
43:59America build a relationship with our
44:02with our Senators with our
44:03Representatives actually we probably
44:04won't build a represented a relationship
44:06directly with them but we can build a
44:08relationship with their staff with their
44:10Legislative Assistant for foreign
44:12affairs that 28-year-old young lady
44:15who's passionate about changing the
44:17world you know we can build those
44:18relationships with them and then you
44:21know we'll see as I said earlier who's
44:23the economic Partners who's the
44:25political cultural you know part
44:27Partners here uh military partners and
44:30and how can we encourage them you know
44:33to use their influence to to diffuse or
44:37bring peace to an
44:39area what if we have to take a short
44:41break uh and after our break I think
44:44we'll give you uh we'll give you a few
44:46minutes to to just give us uh what you
44:49want us to take away from this um what
44:52your your advice uh that that we should
44:55keep in our hearts and
44:58uh we'll be back in just in just a
45:02minute from the Remax real estate
45:04concept Studios this is webcast one live
45:09[Music]
45:39whether you're 10 25 50 80 years old and
45:45Beyond everyone needs to live within
45:47their means I'm Tom coats with Consumer
45:50Credit of America for almost a quarter
45:52of a century we've helped people of all
45:54ages learn to manage their personal
45:55finances to benefit them far into the
45:58future when problems arise we've got the
46:00experience you need to make those debt
46:02problems go away got financial problems
46:05call Consumer Credit of
46:08America if Tom coats from Consumer
46:11Credit of America was your personal Web
46:13Master Tom would filter out all bad debt
46:15emails if Tom was your mailman you'd
46:17never get any debt reduction junk mail
46:20if Tom coats was Al lineman he'd block
46:22any phone calls offering to reduce your
46:23credit card debt hi I'm Tom coach with
46:26Consumer Credit of America and we're
46:27still your best choice for credit
46:29counseling we're local we're accountable
46:32and we can do more you make the call
46:34when the time's right for you when it
46:35comes to competition there really is
46:37none for Consumer Credit of
46:40America from the Remax real estate
46:43concept Studios this is webcast one live
46:47Shalom welcome back to understanding the
46:49world with Rabbi David Kaufman I'm
46:51joined in the studio by Mark finklestein
46:54and we're joined by Skype by Carl wil
46:57uh who has been sharing uh his stories
47:01uh with us uh and and educating us on uh
47:05what he believes uh will help make the
47:08world a better place basically uh I'm
47:10sitting here looking at a screen in our
47:12studio Carl I have to tell you and right
47:13above the screen it says it's a God
47:16thing and uh you know I I I think uh you
47:19know speaking as a rabbi to a to a
47:21minister here um you know a lot of this
47:24work that we do and I think the work we
47:26do in our person lives and the work we
47:27do in anti-genocide and other things is
47:30about that it's it's motivated by uh
47:32making the world a better place and
47:34seeing kind of a bigger picture um and
47:37uh I kind of wanted to give you an
47:39opportunity to uh uh give us a little
47:41bit of advice uh from your perspective
47:43not only about how to combat genocide
47:45but um one of the one of the big things
47:48I see on your website is this idea of
47:50reaching out to the other and I wanted
47:51to um you know get uh give you the
47:54opportunity to say a few words about
47:56that as well
47:57well thanks I appreciate that you know
47:59um when this morning I'll be in some
48:02classrooms here and last night was
48:04others and and always share this story
48:07about these Rwandan women who came and
48:09stood in front of our gate the second
48:10night of the genocide and stopped the
48:12killers from coming into our house not
48:14that we were particularly targeted but
48:16in the chaos they were doing whatever
48:18they wanted and and um these ladies were
48:21only armed with stories they weren't
48:23armed with machetes or guns they just
48:26simply told them stories about our
48:27family our kids playing with their kids
48:30and and I've become very passionate
48:32about the power of stories to build
48:35peace and you know stoies we hope will
48:38always inspire people to action and and
48:41action has this way of empowering
48:43stories if we don't have the stories the
48:46action becomes Duty it becomes drudgery
48:48and and we get burned out and yet if we
48:51only do stories and there's no action
48:53they become meaningless and and so when
48:56people ask you know what can we do I'm
48:58always saying we've got to learn the
49:00story learn the backstory you know and
49:03and and say well it's so complex sure
49:06life's complex but learn the story of an
49:08individual and then of another
49:10individual and another individual and
49:12those stories are often right at next
49:15door you know it may be a refugee family
49:17from Somalia you know or it may be a
49:20professor who is from West Africa you
49:22know the stories are all around us
49:25besides being on the web and and you
49:27know learning the story also takes the
49:30ability to listen listen without an
49:33agenda not learning the story so I can
49:36convince you or or promote my agenda but
49:38just simply listening learning the story
49:40for the value of the story and then as
49:43we do I think the opportunities will
49:45come along that that we can partner with
49:48the people as we're learning their
49:49stories not do stuff for people but with
49:53people partner and especially in
49:54international situations they have to
49:57take the lead and and so I don't believe
50:00that people don't care I really don't I
50:02believe that we're wired to care the
50:05problem is we don't always have the
50:07tools we don't know how to care you know
50:09somebody's broken on the side of the
50:10road well I can help them change a tire
50:12you know or or I got my cell phone I can
50:15call and get some help but in genocide
50:17we're like What do we do and and so I
50:20say start simple stories stories of
50:24individuals and then as we learn Story
50:27how can we partner you know maybe our
50:29passion is soccer I just met a couple of
50:31weeks ago with a couple I act and and if
50:34you look on the on web or on the YouTube
50:37You'll see Dar for United it's it's a
50:40football league that has been started
50:42Among The Refuge camps now it's crazy
50:43that the thing should go on so long that
50:45a football league would start there but
50:47at the same time the effects of this
50:49football league in in restoring a sense
50:51of unity among the people and and
50:53getting people in America who never
50:55would be involved with genocide or not
50:58because they don't care just their
50:59circles don't intersect but then all of
51:02a sudden D soccer football come well
51:05wherever country you're in soccer comes
51:07into the picture and all of a sudden
51:09their circles begin to intersect you
51:11know or we've got this great project
51:13coming in June in in DC where we're
51:16going to be laying down a million bones
51:19you look up the 1 million bones project
51:22and and you see how artists are coming
51:24together to respond against genocide and
51:26and the list could go on you know that
51:28theater group I took to Rwanda this
51:30summer from the group of students from
51:32Buffalo State College they're writing a
51:34play this semester based on their two-e
51:36visit in Rwanda and so again they're
51:39engaging theater in the storytelling so
51:42whatever our passions are dance another
51:44friend has started a dance school in
51:46Rwanda she you know where our passion
51:49our gifts are and where a great need of
51:51the world that touches our heart is and
51:53where those two intersect that's where
51:56we want to be that's where we want to
51:58live this wonderful Carl thank you for
52:01joining us this morning and sharing uh
52:03all of your stories I'm look I'm really
52:05looking forward to having you come to uh
52:07to my congregation Temple bé Juran and
52:10de Mo uh 5101 Grand Avenue um April 20th
52:15um Carl will be speaking at 7:30 uh all
52:18are invited uh and um uh it it really um
52:24is uh is heartwarming
52:27uh to hear and inspiring to hear your
52:29stories not only of what you did but
52:30what other people do uh when they're
52:33faced with real difficulty uh I'm going
52:36to be leaving uh in a few minutes the
52:38studio here to go back to my
52:40congregation where I'm teaching a class
52:42on anti-Semitism the history of
52:44anti-Semitism and and going through
52:46tragedy after tragedy after tragedy um
52:50and uh it it's it it's it's difficult to
52:54confront it constantly but uh you know
52:56part of why I think you and I both do
52:58this work is because we want we want it
53:00the answer to be never again we want
53:02there to be uh a a a stopping of this
53:06kind of action against against people
53:08and this kind of hatred and to promote
53:10understanding between people um Jews
53:12Christians Muslims uh and and and people
53:16from people from Africa of different
53:18tribes different ethnicities we want
53:20everybody to be able to interact because
53:22there is a common Humanity that we need
53:24to stress and when we when we can
53:25interact on that personal level things
53:28change absolutely so absolutely thank
53:32you for joining us today uh thanks for
53:34the opportunity you're welcome this has
53:36been understanding the world with Rabbi
53:38David Kaufman and I look forward to
53:40seeing you next
53:55week for

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