UI Daniel (Vortex) vs James Lee (Amura) — Transcript

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1. 0:01Okay. So, the topic is UI Daniel versus
2. 0:03James.
3. 0:04>> Yeah.
4. 0:06>> Okay. Yeah. So, uh J Daniel is stronger
5. 0:10because he has the perfect body and he
6. 0:12uses perfectly. So, he has the perfect
7. 0:15hardware and the perfect software, which
8. 0:16is the two parts of a fight.
9. 0:21>> So, you broke off for me. Can I repeat
10. 0:23what you said?
11. 0:25>> Yeah. Yeah, I said that Daniel has the
12. 0:27perfect body and he has the perfect
13. 0:28software as well.
14. 0:30>> All right. What do you mean?
15. 0:32>> All right. Hold on. What do you mean by
16. 0:34perfect body there?
17. 0:35>> Uh peak human condition.
18. 0:38>> Okay. Uh what do you mean like by peak
19. 0:41human condition? Like uh
20. 0:43>> I mean that out of all humans like this
21. 0:46is the best possible body for a fight.
22. 0:50>> Uh okay. And what like okay why would
23. 0:54that be the case in Lucasm like why
24. 0:56would perfect be indexed to uh the best
25. 0:59possible body for a fight rather than
26. 1:01something else
27. 1:03>> because the man who is about Lucism
28. 1:05sorry it's not about Lucim it's about
29. 1:06fighting and uh so as a author right it
30. 1:11would be quite misleading if the whole
31. 1:12scope of the series is about fighting
32. 1:14but then you're talking about perfect
33. 1:15body as something else it would kind of
34. 1:17be just an irrelevant statement
35. 1:18otherwise
36. 1:21It could be the man could be about
37. 1:23fighting but doesn't mean like the
38. 1:25perfect body would be indexed to like a
39. 1:28best possible what do you say uh like
40. 1:31fight best possible body for fighting or
41. 1:33something like that. uh it could just be
42. 1:36uh perfect index to himself, right? So
43. 1:40you can see that um from all the times
44. 1:45like from beginning to older like from
45. 1:48young to older uh Daniel will have the
46. 1:52best body, right? His body would remain
47. 1:55like in the best possible condition
48. 1:56relative to him, not relative to all
49. 1:59possible fighters.
50. 2:02>> Yeah, I know that it can be the case.
51. 2:04That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying
52. 2:05it's likely and I gave you a likely
53. 2:06increaser. Like I know that it can be
54. 2:08the case. It's possible. But is that the
55. 2:10case? Is it plausible or is it
56. 2:11plausible? That's a different question.
57. 2:14Hold on. The likelihood increase that
58. 2:16you gave was that it's about a fighting
59. 2:18manual. But the interpretation I gave is
60. 2:21also combatible under that. So I don't
61. 2:23see how it's more likely than my
62. 2:25interpretation.
63. 2:26>> Do you realize that inductive arguments
64. 2:28the conclusion is always going to be
65. 2:30compatible with the evidence? That's not
66. 2:31a deductive argument, right? So just
67. 2:33because you gave me an alternate
68. 2:34interpretation doesn't mean that it's
69. 2:35not a likely increaser because I can I
70. 2:39can explain why increases likelihood
71. 2:40because the author is more likely to act
72. 2:42in this certain way as I described
73. 2:45because the author doesn't want to
74. 2:46mislead the reader right so he's more
75. 2:48likely to act in a way that doesn't
76. 2:49mislead the reader which is my
77. 2:50interpretation I know it's possible
78. 2:52that's your interpretation but it would
79. 2:53just be less likely right
80. 2:56>> I asked you okay the likelihood inter uh
81. 2:59increase that you said was because uh
82. 3:01it's a fighting manual correct
83. 3:04Uh partly yes.
84. 3:06>> And what the other part?
85. 3:08>> I mean that alone doesn't necessarily
86. 3:10increase likelihood. I'm just saying
87. 3:11that like the author due to just basic
88. 3:13writing principles and the way that the
89. 3:15reader would interpret this the
90. 3:17statements, he's more likely to make it
91. 3:19so that the reader doesn't misinterpret
92. 3:21the statements, right? So it's not
93. 3:22relevant as well. And it's also just not
94. 3:25misleading.
95. 3:27>> Okay. Yeah. He says uh will make it more
96. 3:30likely to the author that the uh sorry
97. 3:33that the readers do not misinterpret the
98. 3:35statement. But like sure but the
99. 3:38question is what is the correct
100. 3:40interpretation? You're presupposing that
101. 3:42your interpretation incorrect such that
102. 3:45uh when you read the statement are there
103. 3:48any other interpretation would just be
104. 3:51uh the author misleading anyone else?
105. 3:53What I'm asking why is your
106. 3:55interpretation uh more likely than
107. 3:57others?
108. 3:58>> Wait, sorry. Can you repeat that?
109. 4:00>> That was I was doing something.
110. 4:03>> I'm saying that uh you said that the
111. 4:06author would be uh wouldn't want to
112. 4:10mislead his readers, right? And how you
113. 4:13mislead your readers is by uh not
114. 4:16interpreting a statement in a way that
115. 4:19is intended. But I'm asking why do you
116. 4:22think your interpretation is the
117. 4:24intended interpretation of the author
118. 4:26rather than my interpretation which also
119. 4:30this is also compatible with uh being
120. 4:33with Lucas being a manual about
121. 4:34fighting.
122. 4:36>> Yeah. But unlike it being compatible
123. 4:38mine is actually like it being a
124. 4:40fighting mah who directly serves as
125. 4:41evidence for my position. Right. So I'm
126. 4:43going to explain this to for example in
127. 4:44speech. So this is just a concept of
128. 4:46sha's gun. Right? you don't say
129. 4:47something that would be irrelevant. So,
130. 4:50for example, if I'm talking about
131. 4:51cooking and I say that he has the
132. 4:53perfect body, but I'm talking about
133. 4:54cooking, it'd be quite [ __ ] to say
134. 4:56that he has the perfect body for
135. 4:58fighting, right? If the the whole manga,
136. 5:00for example, is about cooking, even
137. 5:02though it's compatible that he has the
138. 5:03perfect body for fighting, you can rat
139. 5:04and say that he has a perfect body for
140. 5:06fighting, it's more like to say that he
141. 5:07has a perfect body for cooking because
142. 5:08that's actual scope of manga. It be more
143. 5:10relevant for the actual mana to say that
144. 5:12he has a perfect body for fighting even
145. 5:14though it's compatible otherwise.
146. 5:17Don't you say, don't you think that my
147. 5:19interpretation is also compatible with
148. 5:22it being for fighting, but it's not it's
149. 5:25not indexed to uh overall or like all
150. 5:29fighters, but it's index to him
151. 5:31specifically.
152. 5:33>> It's compat. I already told you I think
153. 5:35it's compatible. I just don't think that
154. 5:37what I said serves as evidence for that,
155. 5:38which is different because for it serves
156. 5:40as evidence for my interpretation. You
157. 5:42don't understand that.
158. 5:43>> Okay. Why is it evidence for your
159. 5:45interpretation over mine? That's this is
160. 5:47say that
161. 5:48>> I just told you, bro.
162. 5:50>> No, you didn't. You just said that.
163. 5:52Okay. It's going to be uh you give the
164. 5:55analogy with the cooking, right? And
165. 5:58like you're going to say that uh the
166. 6:00perfect body going to be the perfect
167. 6:01body for cooking over the perfect body
168. 6:04for fighting. But I'm saying that there
169. 6:06isn't any relevant difference between
170. 6:09us. Like mine isn't analogous to a
171. 6:12perfect body for uh cooking
172. 6:15>> and yours for fighting. It's going to be
173. 6:17both under fighting. It's just going to
174. 6:19be which one is indexed to him
175. 6:22specifically or him overall as a
176. 6:25fighter. That's what I'm saying.
177. 6:28>> Both index to him specific. Yeah, I know
178. 6:30it's about fighting, but you don't say
179. 6:32you don't interpret a statement as oh
180. 6:34just for him as specifically. If that
181. 6:36was for if that was a statement, then
182. 6:37yeah, sure. That's not a statement. So
183. 6:38like for you like that's like you have
184. 6:40to jump through a lot of hoops to get
185. 6:42that interpretation to begin with.
186. 6:44>> But you said that's not the statement.
187. 6:46>> No, I'm saying that you'd have to jump
188. 6:49through a lot of hoops to get to that
189. 6:50interpretation. It's a lot less hoops
190. 6:52for me to jump.
191. 6:53>> Wait, why?
192. 6:54>> My you can get my interpretation a lot
193. 6:55simply because my the way I'm
194. 6:57interpreting I don't add things onto the
195. 6:59statement, bro. I'm not reading the
196. 7:00statement as oh just for him even though
197. 7:02that statement doesn't say doesn't say
198. 7:04that. Are you adding things onto it?
199. 7:06>> No, I'm not adding anything on to it.
200. 7:08I'm interpreting different. Look, you
201. 7:10could say that my interpretation adding
202. 7:12on judge for him, but I could also say
203. 7:14that your interpretation adding on the
204. 7:16fact that it going to be relative to all
205. 7:19fighters.
206. 7:21>> No, I'm not.
207. 7:21>> I don't see how yours is more simpler.
208. 7:23>> No, that what' you say?
209. 7:26>> I don't see how it is how yours is
210. 7:28simpler.
211. 7:29>> Okay. You don't see it, but I see it
212. 7:32because you're adding you're adding
213. 7:33you're literally adding words onto the
214. 7:35statement.
215. 7:35>> Okay. What?
216. 7:36>> He's saying it's just for him, but I'm
217. 7:38just saying that perfect body. I'm just
218. 7:40taking the word perfect means just from
219. 7:42the actual denotation of it. Like that's
220. 7:44just different.
221. 7:46>> Okay, let's Okay, give the denotation of
222. 7:48perfect.
223. 7:50>> Search it up, bro. It's false.
224. 7:54>> Can you just give it like I
225. 7:56sure I'll search it up. Okay.
226. 8:04>> Perfect meaning
227. 8:08Cambridge dictionary. Uh
228. 8:18complete and correct in every way of the
229. 8:20best possible type without fail without
230. 8:23fault forever. Like do you think that's
231. 8:25it? Sure, bro.
232. 8:29>> Yeah. So, how is that like this is
233. 8:32compatible with mine and again yours
234. 8:35doesn't have any likelihood razor above
235. 8:38mine and explain why it doesn't
236. 8:42specifically raise uh the probability of
237. 8:44your your hypothesis above mine?
238. 8:48>> Yeah, sure, bro. Uh J, do you were you
239. 8:50listening?
240. 8:53>> Uh yeah, I was. Yeah. Okay. Hey. Uh, do
241. 8:56you think we can conclude?
242. 8:58>> Um, if you guys want to conclude, yeah,
243. 9:00I'd prefer that. But I I don't think I
244. 9:02need conclusions.
245. 9:03>> Okay. So, do you want to conclude?
246. 9:06>> Sure. We can conclude.
247. 9:08>> Okay.
248. 9:10So, I mean, he said we don't need
249. 9:12conclusions. So, J, what do you think?
250. 9:16>> I was like, let me go to M seconds and
251. 9:18I'll say that.
252. 9:20Okay.
253. 9:32My fault.
254. 9:34All right. My bad. Um, okay. So, it
255. 9:36seems like both you guys agreed to
256. 9:38conclude. Um, I feel like there's like
257. 9:42some I I guess you guys were just
258. 9:43talking past each other to some degree.
259. 9:46um Amora kept like I feel like if we're
260. 9:49being charitable here, the way that
261. 9:50Amora interpreted the word compatible
262. 9:53um would be the sense that it's
263. 9:55compatible such that it serves as
264. 9:57evidence equally for both views. Um but
265. 10:00you know, I feel like the established
266. 10:02definition of the word compatible there
267. 10:03would be like some sort of lack of
268. 10:06contradiction with the evidence being
269. 10:09expected under a view, right? And so
270. 10:12that's a that's a little bit different
271. 10:13there. And so when Vortex keeps saying,
272. 10:15okay, well, perfect, which means
273. 10:17flawless, right? Which, you know, the
274. 10:19guy had basically no issues with um and
275. 10:22you have like a set of fighters with the
276. 10:24story, granted that the point to the
277. 10:27story would be to like flesh out some
278. 10:29fighting skill, you know, granted a
279. 10:31fighting ma, right? It seems that would
280. 10:34be like more relevant to that goal for
281. 10:37the perfect to mean they're okay, what's
282. 10:39the perfect fighter, right? And I mean I
283. 10:43feel like I just had no response to
284. 10:44that.
285. 10:46>> Okay, Alex, the way you interpreted how
286. 10:49I meant compatible was correct the first
287. 10:51time. I meant like the evidence doesn't
288. 10:53specifically raise the probability of
289. 10:56one hypothesis over another.
290. 10:58>> Yeah, I understand. Yeah, that's what I
291. 10:59mean. Yeah. So I understand what you
292. 11:01meant by compatible was um it just
293. 11:03doesn't serve as evidence for his view
294. 11:04over your view. meaning that uh both
295. 11:07hypothesis they're expected as likely or
296. 11:10equally as likely was there. Um is that
297. 11:12you sign?
298. 11:13>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And you
299. 11:16said that um it being a fighting manual
300. 11:18where like the guys like fighting and
301. 11:22you know it being like fighting other
302. 11:25guys. But like my interpretation if you
303. 11:28listen correctly was that
304. 11:31>> yeah it was like he has the perfect body
305. 11:35in such a way that he doesn't get weaker
306. 11:38over time and it's like King's body but
307. 11:42I didn't say this but like it's like
308. 11:43King's body in Manager Kim where his
309. 11:46body doesn't degrade and it's called uh
310. 11:49perfect in that way. So
311. 11:52>> no I understand you try to define the
312. 11:54word perfect in some different way. I'm
313. 11:55saying that uh since there were some uh
314. 12:00talking like you guys were just talking
315. 12:01past each other were compatible there.
316. 12:02That's the main issue, right? So, it
317. 12:05seems as if the word compatible there
318. 12:07all all it meant there throughout the
319. 12:08dialogue to me at least the judge um it
320. 12:11seems as if the word compatible there
321. 12:12just meant logical possibility with or
322. 12:14logical compatibility with both views,
323. 12:16right? Excuse me.
324. 12:18And so under that interpretation, like I
325. 12:19feel like he wouldn't disagree that
326. 12:20probably Vortex one if he didn't like
327. 12:23engage with the evidence there outside
328. 12:25of saying it was compatible with my
329. 12:26view. Well, yeah. No, he grants
330. 12:28compatible with your view, but it's just
331. 12:29not this sort of like relevant um
332. 12:31compatibility there, right?
333. 12:34>> Yeah. But like under my interpretation
334. 12:37of compatible, like would you say that
335. 12:40it's inconclusive?
336. 12:43>> Uh
337. 12:44not necessarily. No. But uh so under
338. 12:47your wrote
339. 12:49>> um
340. 12:50>> yo
341. 12:50>> no I feel like it's not relevant to talk
342. 12:52about your definition of compatible cuz
343. 12:56>> sec my mom is like [ __ ] me over one
344. 12:57sec.
345. 12:59>> Oh sorry.
346. 13:01>> Okay. Anyway, um, no, cuz okay, sir, uh,
347. 13:05under Vortex's view, like all this would
348. 13:07mean is that the two hypotheses are not
349. 13:09incomposible with the evidence, right? I
350. 13:12say composible, I mean they can coexist
351. 13:14at the same time, right? Um, so if all
352. 13:18you mean by compatible there would be
353. 13:20like okay like evidential compatibility,
354. 13:23then
355. 13:24you to argue for the fact that the
356. 13:26evidence they would be as compatible or
357. 13:28not compatible, excuse me, like as
358. 13:29expected under your view as is, right?
359. 13:31which you don't
360. 13:33>> where did he he did he didn't argue that
361. 13:36>> he didn't no because he's saying okay
362. 13:38well
363. 13:39>> um and he talked about different things
364. 13:41like for example like he said that your
365. 13:42view would be semantically that simple
366. 13:44>> um so he's trying to give like a sort of
367. 13:46IB for one second um so he's trying to
368. 13:49give some sort of IB for his view right
369. 13:52maybe like in some weaker sense but you
370. 13:54know like being like neutral here like
371. 13:56he probably was giving an IB um and so
372. 13:59like when you're talking about the
373. 14:00expected power of both of your views,
374. 14:03right? Um it seems as if when he's
375. 14:06saying, "Okay, well the view like
376. 14:07although it's compatible, right, in the
377. 14:09sense of compatible he's using there,
378. 14:10he's not sure whether or not this serves
379. 14:11as evidence for your view." Um or at
380. 14:14least evidence such that it confirms
381. 14:15your view over his view. Um it seems
382. 14:18like you need to engage with that rather
383. 14:19than just say, "Okay, well um you know,
384. 14:22well, it does serve as evidence for me
385. 14:24because that just seems to be the
386. 14:25question."
387. 14:27>> Yeah, I understand that. But
388. 14:30as he misinterpreted what I meant by
389. 14:32compatible, right? Like why would you
390. 14:36say that we take his why would
391. 14:39interpretation of compatible be
392. 14:41irrelevant but his is relevant when I'm
393. 14:44the one who invoked the term?
394. 14:47>> Uh I'm not saying that anyone's version
395. 14:50of the [ __ ] word is more or less
396. 14:52relevant. What I'm saying here is that
397. 14:54um directly what Vortex was asking was
398. 14:56for uh you to support the evidential
399. 15:00power of your view or your hypothesis to
400. 15:03support the evidence that the guy was
401. 15:04stated to be perfect. Right? So you're
402. 15:05saying okay well the hypothesis there
403. 15:07being yeah um perfect would just mean
404. 15:09okay well you know Daniel doesn't age he
405. 15:12stays in perfect condition throughout
406. 15:13his aging yada yada whatever he said.
407. 15:16Um, so
408. 15:18again like it just I didn't hear an
409. 15:20argument for that, right? Which I I
410. 15:22believe you granted that the you know
411. 15:24the story being a fighting mono would
412. 15:25serve as some evidence for vortex on the
413. 15:27other hand.
414. 15:30>> Yeah. But if I also said that it will
415. 15:33serve as evidence from my view. I don't
416. 15:35remember when Vortic asked me for uh for
417. 15:38for me to justify why um it being a
418. 15:42fighting manual or whatever would also
419. 15:44serve for evidence under my view.
420. 15:46What do you think he's doing there? Why
421. 15:47like it's pretty clear. Um so if he's
422. 15:50saying compatible which in this case
423. 15:52just means that there's no contradiction
424. 15:54with the view being sorry uh with your
425. 15:56view being true with evidence right so
426. 15:58it's compatible in that sense but he's
427. 16:00saying okay well my view is still more
428. 16:02likely right granted that you agree that
429. 16:03his view was evidence in some way
430. 16:07what he's asking there is whether or not
431. 16:08you have evidence for your own view in
432. 16:10virtue of the statement right
433. 16:13>> all right so like it's me
434. 16:15misinterpreting like
435. 16:18you're saying.
436. 16:20>> Um, well, maybe I wouldn't say
437. 16:22misinterpreting because I don't feel
438. 16:23like it was your like entirely your
439. 16:25fault, but I'm saying there just was
440. 16:27some sort of mis like miscommunication
441. 16:28there where both guys were past I guess
442. 16:31like past each other in some sense,
443. 16:32right?
444. 16:34>> All right. Sure.
445. 16:40As I said,