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TRY THIS TONIGHT - Learn How To Sleep CORRECTLY! | Tom Bilyeu — Transcript

by Tom Bilyeu · 18,456 words · 2,808 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Sleep is undeniably essential to our
0:02health and longevity. More than half of
0:04adults worldwide report that they are
0:06getting less sleep than they need on
0:08average per night, making sleep problems
0:10a global epidemic. In this episode, I
0:13have three sleep experts join me to talk
0:15about how we can approach this program.
0:18Shawn Stevenson, author of Sleep
0:19Smarter, Give yourself a screen curfew.
0:21Just 30 minutes. Matthew Walker, author
0:24of the New York Times best-seller Why We
0:26Sleep,
0:27Cognitive behavioral therapy for
0:28insomnia, that must be the first line
0:31recommended treatment. And Dan Pardi,
0:33CEO of humanOS.me
0:36and dansplan.com.
0:38Sleep ends up being as a very great
0:40window into your soul, you know, even
0:41into the into the workings of the brain.
0:43Pay attention to get the inside scoop on
0:44sleep and its necessity in today's
0:46world. Number one is to remember that
0:49your night sleep begins
0:52the morning before. And one of the most
0:54important things that you can do is get
0:56direct sun exposure into your eyes and
0:59on your skin first thing in the morning.
1:02Now, I know a lot of people live in
1:03northern latitudes and you're stepping
1:05outside and it's basically just a gray
1:07day, but even that helps. It's better
1:09than nothing. You want to get out. You
1:11want that sunlight to hit your eyes. You
1:13want that sunlight to hit your skin
1:15because it helps to set your circadian
1:17rhythms. It's one of the most important
1:19things you can do for actually getting a
1:20good night's sleep, but it starts the
1:21morning before. And by the way, as a pro
1:24tip, when you're traveling, this is one
1:27of the critical things that you want to
1:29do to adjust to the new time zone. The
1:31second you wake up, get out, go outside,
1:34and get that sun exposure. And I try to
1:37look up into the sky, not at the sun, as
1:39that will burn your eyes out, but I try
1:41to look up into the sky to make sure
1:43that I'm getting the maximum amount of
1:44sunlight into my eyes. I'm not wearing
1:46sunglasses. I'm not wearing blue
1:47blockers like I'm wearing now,
1:50which is part of the night routine.
1:52But in the morning when I'm trying to
1:53get all that sunlight in to set my
1:54circadian rhythms, then I'm making sure
1:56that I get that exposure.
2:00Make sure that you're using your body
2:01throughout the day. It's incredibly
2:03important to actually be physically
2:06active to burn that energy off to make
2:07sure that you earn your night's sleep.
2:10In a modern lifestyle, so often we're
2:12spending so much time sedentary that we
2:15don't actually tax our body in any
2:17meaningful way, which means that by the
2:19time we're trying to lay down to go to
2:20bed, we don't have the impulse to sleep.
2:22And so, doing things that are physically
2:25taxing throughout the day is an
2:26extraordinarily useful way of being
2:29ready to actually go to bed.
2:32As you go through the day, I find that
2:34there are certain things that you need
2:35to be very careful about in terms of
2:37what you intake, so eating and drinking.
2:41So, a big one for me is the last meal
2:44that I eat and what time that happens
2:46at. Now, I get up very early, which
2:48we'll cover as we get later in my day
2:50around what time I go to bed, but I
2:52typically get up very early, somewhere
2:53between 4:00 and 5:00 a.m. So, my day
2:56already is skewed that way, but my last
3:00meal I eat usually around 1:15 to 1:45
3:04p.m. And that is the last meal I will
3:07eat for the day. I won't have anything
3:09after that, literally nothing. I don't
3:11even have a water after 2:00 p.m.
3:14Now, the reason that I don't eat after
3:171:45-ish
3:18is because I want to do intermittent
3:20fasting and it's much easier for me to
3:22get through the rest of the evening
3:24without intaking any more food than it
3:26is to spend the whole morning hungry
3:28until, say, 12:00 or 1:00, which I know
3:31a lot of people do. It's dealer's
3:32choice, whatever works better for you,
3:34but having an extended fast is very,
3:36very helpful.
3:37Now, also, another reason that I end it
3:40early is that I think you will notice a
3:43massive difference in how you sleep if
3:46you have your last meal at least, at
3:49least, bare minimum
3:513 hours before bedtime. So, if you go to
3:54bed at 9:00 p.m. like it's a religion,
3:57like I do, then your last meal is going
3:59to be at 6:00 p.m. anyway. So, you're
4:02going to want to get that out of the
4:03way. And I wouldn't start chewing at
4:056:00. I would try to be done chewing at
4:076:00 so that you actually have a full 3
4:10hours rest between when you had that
4:13last bite and when you go to bed. Your
4:15digestion stops in the middle of the
4:16night so it can create discomfort if
4:18your digestion stops sort of mid-process
4:21and you're sitting with something
4:22sitting either still in your stomach or
4:24in your
4:26um upper intestine. So, uh that can be
4:28very uncomfortable. So, that disrupts
4:30people's sleep and makes it hard for
4:31them to get to sleep. And remember that
4:33you have trillions of microbes inside of
4:34you and when they're being asked to sit
4:36in all the things that they're um
4:38digesting, it can create issues. So, I
4:41find that I sleep way better by not just
4:45eating 3 hours before bedtime, but
4:47taking that all the way back to where
4:48I'm done chewing at about 1:15. Uh 1:45,
4:51excuse me.
4:52So, that's worked out really, really
4:54well for me. And if you're worried that
4:56you're going to get hungry, remember
4:57you're taking in a normal amount of
4:58calories, you're just having your last
5:01meal later. And what I have heard said
5:04before and I think it's really clever
5:06and brilliant is that as I get hungry, I
5:09have sleep for dinner.
5:12And uh I love that. I love that idea of
5:14right when I'm about like, "Yeah, I
5:16could eat now." I brush my teeth, which
5:18for whatever reason the taste taste of
5:20toothpaste
5:21kills hunger. So, just as I'm thinking I
5:24want to eat, I brush my teeth and then
5:26boom, I go to bed. I fall asleep with no
5:27problems and I'm able to stay asleep.
5:29Now, the reason that I stopped drinking
5:31at 2:00 p.m. is I find that if I have
5:34any substantial amount of water, cuz
5:35I'll still have a sip of water here and
5:37there, uh but sips. And the reason is
5:40that I'll wake up in the middle of the
5:41night to pee if I And by the way, if I'm
5:44eating too close to bedtime, same thing
5:46because there's so much water in the
5:47food that you eat. Uh but I don't want
5:49to wake up in the middle of the night if
5:50I can at all avoid it. So, the times
5:53where I eat late or drink late, I find
5:55myself waking up in the middle of the
5:57night to pee, and then my brain kicks
5:58back in, and I start problem-solving,
6:00and it makes it impossible for me to
6:02fall back asleep, and I was losing two,
6:04sometimes three hours a night of
6:07productivity because I wasn't sleeping.
6:09I was trying to fall back asleep. I
6:11wasn't doing anything useful other than
6:13tossing and turning and ruminating over
6:15everything that had happened during the
6:16day, that I need to do, that I could
6:17have done better.
6:19It was nightmarish. So, not only are you
6:21fatigued, sub-optimal cognitively, but
6:23it's just really a lame way to spend
6:26time
6:27because there's an interesting part of
6:28your brain that shuts off in the middle
6:29of the night that makes fears seem way
6:32bigger than they will as soon as you're
6:34up and are actually attacking your day,
6:36it all feels very manageable. But in the
6:38middle of the night, it feels
6:39terrifying, it feels overwhelming, feels
6:42like, you know, just absolute
6:43stress-inducing, and so that makes it
6:45even less likely that you're going to be
6:46able to fall asleep. So, anything that I
6:49can do to mitigate waking up in the
6:51middle of the night and starting that
6:54death loop,
6:56I'm going to do. So, that's one of the
6:58reasons that I stop eating, and is
6:59definitely the reason that I stop
7:01drinking at 2:00 p.m. every day.
7:07Okay, the next thing that I do for sleep
7:10hygiene, as it's called, is as the
7:12evening wears on, I make sure that I'm
7:15not getting a substantial amount of blue
7:17light and bright light into my eyes. So,
7:20I'm going to dim my computer screen. I'm
7:22going to put my computer screen on
7:24screen on night mode. So, you can go
7:27into your phone, you can go into your
7:29computer, and set them to just
7:31automatically at a certain time. I think
7:32I set mine for 6:00 p.m. if I remember
7:35right, and it just automatically flips
7:37over to an orangier light. I dim the
7:40screen, so I'm not getting super bright
7:41light. Happens again both on my phone
7:43and my computer. And then, on top of
7:46that, just to make sure, I put on blue
7:48blocking glasses to make sure that I'm
7:50not getting too much in my eyes. And
7:52there are some days, if I'm going to be
7:53at the computer for a really extended
7:55amount of time, I'll wear blue blockers
7:57even during the day just so I'm not
7:59getting an overwhelming amount of the
8:00artificial blue light from my screen.
8:02So, that's how I curb that. And then,
8:06another thing that I do around my
8:08computer is I try not to do any work
8:11that I think will be stress-inducing for
8:14the final hour before my bedtime. So,
8:15I'm still going to work right up until I
8:17go to bed. My rule in life is Monday
8:19through Friday, if I'm awake, I'm either
8:22working or working out.
8:24Now, I love my work, so this isn't a
8:26torture chamber. I'm sure some people
8:27are imagining that and thinking it's
8:28horrible, but for me it's completely
8:30joyful. And
8:32I do, though, have to acknowledge that
8:34there are some things that I work on
8:36that stress me out. And so, I don't
8:39check texts text messages after 8:00
8:41p.m. I'm not looking at emails after
8:438:00 p.m.
8:44Um I'm doing things that are work, but
8:46enjoyable. Now, I'm not religious about
8:48it. There are definitely times where I
8:50feel that something really just has to
8:52be done in a timely fashion, and so I
8:53will break that rule light um
8:56occasionally, but I try not to because I
8:58do find that I sleep much better if for
9:00the last hour before bed I'm doing fun
9:03things, I'm doing things that um give me
9:05energy, that make me feel light, that
9:07are part of that passion, that feel
9:09good. And I can feel a difference in my
9:13stress and anxiety levels. There's a
9:16lightness to it that I don't know I
9:17don't have a better word for it, but as
9:19I'm going to bed, I just feel relaxed, I
9:21feel um joyful, I have a sense of
9:24purpose, and it's like I can let
9:26everything go for the day. And when I
9:28climb into bed, I remind myself that I
9:30only have one job now that I'm going to
9:33bed, and that job is to sleep. And that
9:37mantra, the job I have now is to sleep,
9:40has helped me a lot, especially when I
9:42wake up in the middle of the night.
9:46So, when I lay down, then I have a host
9:48of different mechanical things that I
9:50do. Um one of them is to make sure that
9:54I have my own blankets. I use a two
9:58blanket system. So, I myself have two
10:00blankets. That way, if at any point
10:01during the night I'm getting cold, I can
10:03pull the other blanket up. So, I start
10:05it down where it's basically just
10:06covering my shins and below. And then if
10:09I'm getting cold, I can pull that up to
10:11my waist if I'm a little cold but not
10:13too cold, or I can pull it all the way
10:14up if I'm really cold. And that allows
10:17me to better control my temperature. And
10:19then, this is the one that people think
10:21is weird, but I've been doing it
10:22forever, so it seems so normal to me. I
10:24do not, ever, under any circumstance,
10:27share blankets with my wife.
10:29Now, the reason is, when they move, it
10:32becomes your movement. Or you're playing
10:34tug-of-war for the blanket, or worse,
10:36the other person might actually pull the
10:37blanket off you, or you might pull the
10:39blanket off them and give them a bad
10:41night's sleep. So, that was a lesson I
10:43learned very early on because, for
10:45whatever weird reason, I like to sleep
10:48with the blankets up over my head. I
10:50like to be completely cocooned. Feels so
10:52nice. There is no light, which by the
10:55way is another thing.
10:56Make sure your room is dark.
11:00Make sure your room is dark. So, no
11:03light, no light leaks, no phones, no
11:06nightlights, nothing. As dark as you can
11:09get it. Cover up if things have like
11:11little LED power lights, cover those up.
11:13Do whatever you can to get the room
11:15actually dark.
11:17For me, I have another layer, which is I
11:19sleep under the blankets. Now, if you're
11:20like my wife Lisa, the last thing you're
11:22ever going to do is cover your head with
11:24a blanket. She absolutely hates it and
11:25feels like, you know, she's just
11:27claustrophobic and has to get it off of
11:28her. But for me, it just feels
11:31like I'm in a womb and it's so
11:33wonderful. So, I love it. So, I have
11:35slept with the blankets over my head for
11:37decades at this point, which is another
11:40reason why I need to have my own
11:41blankets. So, get my own blankets, I can
11:44meter them based on the temperature in
11:46the room, which brings me to another
11:48point.
11:52One of the best
11:54signifiers to your body that it's time
11:56to go to bed, that's going to kick you
11:58into sleep mode, is making sure that
12:00your room is cool. So, we keep our room
12:03somewhere around 67° to 68°.
12:06It should be cool enough that when you
12:08go to take your clothes off and get in
12:10your pajamas, you kind of don't want to
12:13because it's that cold. So, that's the
12:15right temperature. So, whatever that
12:17temperature is for you, you want to get
12:18it there. Get under the covers, you're
12:20nice and warm. It's not like you're
12:21sleeping cold, but you want the room to
12:24be cool to signal to your body that it's
12:26night time, right? We've come up through
12:28evolution with all of these signals from
12:31daylight, from the brightness,
12:34the color temperature, the difference
12:36between firelight, which is dim and
12:39orange, to daylight, which is bright and
12:42blue. And so, we have all of these
12:44subtle signals including a drop in
12:46temperature. So, as the temperature
12:48comes down, it's yet another signal to
12:50your body that it's time to go to sleep.
12:53So, from setting our circadian rhythm
12:55with getting that sunlight directly in
12:56our eyes, on our skin, actually being
12:58outside, to the temperature dropping,
13:00the color temperature of the light
13:02changing, uh the brightness of the light
13:05changing, all of these are signals that
13:07keep your circadian rhythm where you
13:09want it to be so that you can fall
13:10asleep. What is up, my friend? Tom
13:12Bilyeu here and I have a big question to
13:14ask you. How would you rate your level
13:15of personal discipline on a scale of 1
13:17to 10? If your answer is anything less
13:20than a 10, I've got something cool for
13:21you and let me tell you right now,
13:22discipline by its very nature means
13:24compelling yourself to do difficult
13:26things that are stressful, boring, which
13:29is what kills most people, or possibly
13:31scary or even painful. Now, here is the
13:33thing. Achieving huge goals and
13:35stretching to reach your potential
13:37requires you to do those challenging,
13:39stressful things and to stick with them
13:41even when it gets boring and it will get
13:43boring. Building your levels of personal
13:45discipline is not easy, but let me tell
13:47you it pays off. In fact, I will tell
13:48you you're never going to achieve
13:50anything meaningful unless you develop
13:52discipline. All right, I've just
13:53released a class from Impact Theory
13:54University called How to Build Ironclad
13:57Discipline that teaches you the process
13:59of building yourself up in this area so
14:01that you can push yourself to do the
14:03hard things that greatness is going to
14:04require of you. All right, click the
14:06link on the screen, register for this
14:07class right now, and let's get to work.
14:10I will see you inside this workshop from
14:12Impact Theory University. Until then, my
14:13friends, be legendary. Peace out.
14:17This particular topic
14:20is and me being a nutritionist like I
14:22was all like food matters, food first,
14:24food is the most important thing. But,
14:27in my practice and seeing people coming
14:29in that
14:30you know, we've got these folks over
14:32here, you know, 80% of the time are able
14:34to reverse type 2 diabetes, heart
14:36disease, get off their lisinoprils, and
14:39all this different stuff. And then we've
14:41got this category of people who just
14:42like literally sometimes would
14:44ironically kind of keep me up at night
14:45like, what is wrong? Like I'm doing all
14:47these things right. Are they lying to
14:49me? And then it wasn't until I started
14:51to ask people about their sleep that it
14:54just like it changed everything. And
14:56this was about 6 years ago.
14:57And so
14:59then and here's the key.
15:01I can't just tell people they need to
15:02sleep more.
15:04You know this. Like people don't want to
15:06change that much. Like we want change,
15:09but we want it to be a little bit,
15:10right? And so I found clinically proven
15:13strategies that are super easy to
15:16implement. Almost things that can happen
15:18on automatic to help them improve their
15:20sleep quality, right? And once we did
15:22that, it's like the floodgates would
15:24open for people. You know, who'd been
15:25struggling for sometimes, you know, 15,
15:2720 years with their weight. Finally, the
15:29weight comes off, you know? And seeing
15:32people struggling with heart disease or
15:34high cholesterol, you know, the
15:36so-called bad cholesterol. Um and seeing
15:39those numbers finally get regulated once
15:41we got their sleep optimized.
15:43And I knew that this was incredibly
15:45important part of the conversation that
15:46was left out. And as we'll talk about, I
15:49know now that our sleep quality is more
15:52important than our diet and exercise
15:53combined. And what it does for our
15:55health and also literally our physical
15:57appearance.
15:59Fascinating stuff. How much more fat you
16:01lose when you get optimal sleep. It's
16:04It's insane. That's a bold statement.
16:06So, walk me through what are some of the
16:09um
16:10the just
16:11core benefits that I'm going to get
16:13assuming that I'm sleeping suboptimally.
16:15Like
16:16why is that a problem since that's
16:18probably one of the most celebrated like
16:20things? Like when you get a little
16:22sleep, people like champion you.
16:24Normally, I'd sleep 5 to 6 hours a night
16:25with no alarm. Okay, I haven't set an
16:27alarm in 15 years. So, that's just That
16:29was my cycle.
16:30Mhm. Um I go to bed early, very
16:32consistently. My diet is on point. My
16:34exercise is on point. And so, I'd wake
16:37up feeling awesome.
16:38Yeah. And so, I thought this is cash
16:40money. But because I don't set an alarm,
16:43that my sleep cycle will change. And
16:46right now I'm getting like 7 to 9 hours
16:48out of nowhere and super consistently.
16:50Yeah. And I literally have no idea why.
16:52I'm warmer now. So, I used to be
16:54freezing cold at all times. And then at
16:58the same time that my and I don't know
17:00correlated, causative, no idea. Um
17:04I've started being warmer while I sleep
17:07and then during the day. So, what are
17:09like the core components of sleep? Was
17:11something bad happening to me or or less
17:14than optimal when I was only getting 6
17:15hours even though I felt good.
17:17Any correlation between the
17:20heat and the extra sleep? There's
17:21There's for There's a lot to unpack
17:23there. Number one,
17:25what's so interesting is that you you
17:27were doing something exceptionally right
17:29as far as what the research shows with
17:31improving your sleep, which is you were
17:33going to bed kind of consistently a
17:34little bit earlier than other folks
17:36might. And so, what we call what we call
17:38this is this anabolic window or what we
17:40call money time sleep. And this is
17:43generally between the hours of 10 and 2
17:45because it's more lined up with your
17:46natural melatonin secretion. So, if you
17:49go to sleep during those times, you
17:50actually spend more time in the deepest,
17:52most anabolic stages of sleep and you
17:54tend to produce more human growth
17:56hormone than other folks. So, you were
17:58already winning with that. This is why
18:00you have a tendency to feel better even
18:01if you're getting less sleep because
18:04I This isn't called sleep more, right?
18:06It's sleep smarter. And there are many
18:09people who sleep, you know, 8 to 9 hours
18:10and they wake up feeling like
18:13straight up, you know, hot garbage. You
18:15know what I'm saying? And they're just
18:17wondering why. It's because it's the
18:18quality of sleep. And when I say quality
18:20of sleep, what does that mean? Let's
18:21break that down. So, your sleep is
18:23regulated by changes in your in your
18:25brain waves. It's really fascinating
18:27stuff and we still don't know really
18:30what sleep is. Trying to define sleep is
18:32like trying to define
18:34um you know, when Forrest Gump is like
18:36life is like a box of chocolates, sleep
18:37is like pretending to be dead. We don't
18:39really know, right? But we do know the
18:41changes that happen in the brain. We
18:42cycle from kind of a normal waking state
18:45with with gamma, beta, um we're probably
18:47in beta right now. We move to alpha,
18:50theta, delta is where the deep anabolic,
18:53dreamless sleep takes place. And we need
18:55all of them.
18:57And there's a certain percentage we
18:58spend in each that helps to rejuvenate
19:00our mind and bodies. And if you optimize
19:03certain things, you'll do it more
19:04efficiently. One of those gear shifts,
19:07like if you think about your body like
19:09this kind of manual transmission, is
19:11melatonin. Like people hear about
19:13melatonin as a sleep hormone and it just
19:14helps your body to efficiently go
19:15through your sleep cycles. And if your
19:17melatonin is suppressed by various
19:19things, you know, I'll share a couple,
19:21then you're not going through those
19:22efficiently and you can wake up feeling
19:24like a piñata after the party the next
19:26day, even though you're spending all
19:27this time on the mattress.
19:29So, that's number one.
19:30Number two, there's this interesting
19:32process called thermoregulation. There's
19:34a natural drop in your core body
19:35temperature at night
19:37to help facilitate sleep for all of us
19:39if things are running properly. But what
19:41was fascinating and I shared a study
19:42about this is that
19:44they tested insomniacs and everyone in
19:46this particular clinical study all had
19:48too high body temperature at night. It
19:50would not go down.
19:52And so, what they did was they fit them
19:53with these thermal suits, right, that
19:56lowers their skin temperature, not even
19:58the core temperature, just 1°, and
20:00virtually eliminated all the symptoms of
20:02insomnia. Whoa. Ambien can't do that,
20:05all right? And it's as simple as paying
20:08attention to how your body temperature
20:10influences your sleep. And so, with your
20:12body temperature changing like that,
20:14it's kind of feeling more of an
20:15insulation
20:17as a result of having more sleep,
20:19there's a ton of different things that
20:21could be correlated there. So, I'm not
20:22going to say that the sleep is a
20:23causative factor, but it's really
20:25interesting how your body does change in
20:27accordance to sleep. There's a natural
20:29rise in your core body temperature as
20:31the day goes
20:32as I'm sorry, as the night goes on that
20:34helps to kind of wake you up.
20:36Um so, what I did want to share though,
20:38when I said that kind of bold statement
20:40in the beginning,
20:41when we're talking about how sleep
20:43influences your body composition, I
20:45think everybody needs to know this.
20:47There was a
20:48This study really blew my mind and this
20:50was done at the University of Chicago.
20:52And they took people
20:53and they put them on a calorie
20:55restricted diet, kind of typical stuff
20:57again I'm taught in college, to see the
20:59impact on weight loss
21:01when they're sleep deprived or getting
21:02enough sleep, all right? So, they put
21:04the people on this particular diet,
21:06monitor everything.
21:08One phase of study, they're getting 8
21:09and 1/2 hours of sleep, all right? And
21:11then they check all their metrics.
21:12Another phase of the study, same exact
21:15diet, same exercise, they don't change
21:17anything else, but now they sleep
21:18deprive them. And they take away 3 hours
21:20of sleep. So now they're getting 5 and
21:221/2 hours of sleep versus 8 and 1/2
21:24hours of sleep.
21:25At the end of the study, they found that
21:27when individuals were well-rested, they
21:29burned 55% more body fat just by getting
21:33more sleep. And so the question is, how
21:35does this happen? Melatonin, when I
21:37talked about this a little bit earlier,
21:39it's not just that it's involved in
21:41sleep, it's also involved in fat loss.
21:43In this study that was done in the
21:44Journal of Pineal Research, found that
21:47uh melatonin production helps increase
21:49your body's mobilization of something
21:51called brown adipose tissue, right? This
21:53is a type of fat that burns fat, all
21:55right? The reason that it's brown is
21:57that it has more mitochondria. So it's
21:59very energy dense, right? These
22:00mitochondria, just for people who I'm
22:02sure people have heard of this, but it's
22:03like these energy power plants in your
22:05cells that are creating the energy
22:07currency of your body, like how you
22:08experience energy, the energy exchange,
22:10something called ATP.
22:12And so when you are producing adequate
22:14melatonin, you're producing and
22:16mobilizing adequate amounts of brown
22:18adipose tissue, which just puts you in a
22:20metabolically advantaged state, all
22:22right? But if you're not getting the
22:24melatonin production, which you've got
22:25to meet two requirements,
22:27number one, you need a biological night.
22:30So that means this could actually be
22:31during the day, but it's a consistent
22:33cycle of when it gets produced.
22:35But the other requirement needs to be
22:36met that you need darkness. Your body
22:38produces melatonin exclusively in
22:41darkness. And so that's one. Also, how
22:44do you get how do they get that body fat
22:45change? HGH production, which we talked
22:48about, too. Human growth hormone is
22:50muscle sparing.
22:52And it's a big driver of energy. It's
22:54also known as a youth hormone. Kids have
22:55an insane amount of HGH being produced.
22:58This is why they have so much energy. We
23:00have a pretty sharp decline in our
23:01production right around 18 to 20. But my
23:04argument is that around 18 to 20, we
23:06generally in our culture like leave the
23:08house, we might go to college, that kind
23:10of thing, and we no longer have
23:12structure, we no longer have rules, and
23:14we're not going to produce as much HGH.
23:17Third thing, really quickly,
23:19um is and this is all has to do with the
23:22diet and the food choices is leptin. All
23:25right? And I know people's talked about
23:27leptin before, but leptin is your body's
23:29kind of glorify satiety hormone. And so
23:31when you're producing adequate amounts
23:33of leptin, you feel more in control,
23:35right? You feel more satiated. But when
23:38when leptin kind of falls off the map or
23:40you have leptin
23:41uh resistance can take place,
23:45then we're going to have some pretty big
23:46issues with you regulating your cravings
23:48and your appetite. And so Stanford
23:49University researchers found that just
23:51one night of sleep deprivation radically
23:54suppresses your leptin.
23:55And now I hope folks can start to pay
23:57attention whenever you might not get the
23:58best sleep, how your cravings changed
24:00the next day. You're going to have a
24:02tendency to want to number one, eat
24:03more, number two, to want to eat more
24:06kind of the starchy, crunchy, salty,
24:08sugary type things. And I remember my
24:11wife, who's actually here, uh when we
24:13had our son, and I she she's never seen
24:16me eat the this food. I was sitting
24:19there like waiting for the baby to come.
24:20I was eating uh chocolate-covered
24:21raisins. I was just like and I didn't
24:23even realize I was doing it. You know,
24:25it was like 3:00 in the morning, you
24:26know?
24:27And so that's another thing. And uh last
24:29one I'll share and there's so many that
24:31create that change in your body
24:32composition.
24:33But this one is incredibly important.
24:36Is cortisol.
24:37Cortisol's been dragged through the mud
24:39recently. You know, it's getting blamed
24:41for everything, but it's not really a
24:43bad guy. It's just misunderstood. All
24:45right? Cortisol's incredibly important.
24:47For example, cortisol's important for
24:49your thyroid to work, right? And that's
24:52kind of like the metabolism regulator of
24:53your body. But here's the thing.
24:56Just one night of sleep deprivation
24:58radically increases your cortisol and
25:01suppresses melatonin, actually, as well.
25:03But, this rise in cortisol has a really
25:06powerful ability to start to break down
25:08your muscle tissue, which your muscles
25:10your body's kind of fat-burning
25:11machinery.
25:12And so, it can convert your muscle
25:14tissue into glucose. It's a process
25:16called gluconeogenesis.
25:18As a kind of fight or flight response
25:20because your physiology doesn't know why
25:22you're not sleeping. You know, it must
25:24be some danger about, you know? And so,
25:27understanding those major hormones, and
25:29there's many others, you start to see
25:31the picture that gets painted with just
25:33how much your sleep quality impacts your
25:36physical appearance. It's really crazy.
25:38I've always known you need sleep, but I
25:40didn't know why. And so, getting into uh
25:44or transitioning, I should say, because
25:46I was in you needed sleep because if I
25:48didn't get it, I felt terrible. But,
25:49that was sort of the the end of it. And
25:51I even let myself just stop at the we
25:52don't really know why you sleep, but not
25:55diving into to the real breakdown, which
25:57is really fascinating. So, what are
25:59things then that people can do to
26:01actually optimize their sleep?
26:03Yeah, this is what it's really all
26:04about.
26:06You know, I I like to start with the
26:07low-hanging fruit first. Um and
26:10something really really fascinating is
26:12just simply
26:14changing or embracing the time of day
26:17that you exercise can improve your sleep
26:19quality.
26:20And so, Appalachian State University did
26:22a really cool study, and they wanted to
26:24see what time of day exercising at
26:27various times of day how does it impact
26:28your sleep quality? And so, they had the
26:31study participants to exercise
26:32exclusively at 7:00 a.m.
26:35And another phase exclusively at 1:00
26:36p.m. in the afternoon. Another phase
26:38exclusively at 7:00 p.m. in the evening.
26:40They compiled all the data, and at the
26:42end of the study, they found that
26:43morning exercisers spend more time in
26:46the deepest, most anabolic stage of
26:48sleep. So, they're producing more human
26:49growth hormone.
26:50They have more efficient sleep cycles,
26:52what we've been talking about.
26:54They also tend to sleep longer and this
26:57is the one that kind of can get glanced
26:58past.
27:00On average, they had about a 25% greater
27:02drop in blood pressure at night.
27:04So, what's what's up with that? That's
27:05correlated with a deactivation of your
27:08sympathetic fight or flight nervous
27:09system, right? So, you're actually able
27:12to shift gears, get to that
27:14parasympathetic rest and digest, calming
27:16down by getting some exercise in in the
27:18morning.
27:19And so, how do we employ this though?
27:21That's the question. Because some people
27:22are just like, you know, I can't
27:23exercise in the morning. And there's
27:25also people who exercise in the morning
27:27who might have terrible sleep.
27:29And it's because this is not like the
27:31magic bullet. This is a thing to stack
27:33in your condition. If you're doing this
27:34and then messing up the one I'm going to
27:36talk about next, you're probably not
27:38going to have the best sleep. So,
27:40here's how to employ this. Just 5
27:42minutes.
27:43And I tested this. Each morning I do
27:44this 5 minutes of exercise. You know, it
27:46might be just jumping on a rebounder,
27:48you know, a little mini trampoline for 5
27:49minutes, go for a quick power walk, do
27:52some Tabata, which is just 4 minutes,
27:54and a little mobility work.
27:56And
27:57people don't know what Tabata is.
27:59It's high-intensity interval training,
28:00basically. It's 20 seconds of exercise
28:03followed by 10 seconds of rest, repeated
28:05over and over again for 4 minutes.
28:07And in his clinical studies, this was
28:09found to outperform,
28:12you know, traditional cardio, like the
28:14kind of moderate-intensity 45 minutes of
28:17exercise, in 4 minutes.
28:19Wow. The change in your cardiovascular
28:21benefits, body composition, and also
28:24change your mitochondria as well. This
28:26is why it works. It does something
28:27called a cortisol reset. All right. And
28:29we talked about cortisol,
28:31but again, it's a good thing if it's in
28:33the right time and in the right amount.
28:35Clinically, I would call these people
28:37tired and wired that would come in and
28:38looking at their hormone panels. And the
28:40cortisol would be really low in the
28:41morning and high at night. Thus, they
28:44have sleep problems.
28:45So, you naturally, if your
28:47if your cortisol is on a natural hormone
28:49rhythm, it will be elevated at its peak
28:51in the morning, right around 6:00 a.m.
28:53to 8:00 a.m. and then gradually decline
28:55as the day goes on.
28:55have to do with what time you wake up?
28:58Sort of. I mean, the cortisol will kind
29:00of tend to nudge you out of sleep, but
29:02also you'll tend to notice that as the
29:04day as it your sleep goes on, it becomes
29:07lighter and lighter anyways, right? This
29:09is when you tend to remember your dreams
29:11like at the at the end of the sleep.
29:14And so,
29:15getting this little boost, like helping
29:17your body to propel and get your
29:18cortisol up via exercise helps to reset
29:20that rhythm and get you back on track.
29:22So, that's why it works.
29:24So, that's number one, low-hanging
29:25fruit, just get in 5 minutes of
29:26exercise. Start in the morning, no
29:29matter what. Just 5 minutes is all you
29:31need. It's going to help to create this
29:33snowball effect of good things for you,
29:36you know? 5 minutes. If this is the time
29:37you do go to to the gym and do your full
29:39workout, so be it, all good. But,
29:41everybody who's not already doing that,
29:43just get that 5 minutes in. The second
29:45one,
29:46and this one is more of the tough love
29:49and the the most difficult, but this is
29:51the most important one in our culture
29:52today. And this has to do with our tech,
29:55all right? So, Harvard researchers have
29:57confirmed that blue light exposure from
29:59our favorite devices, you know, iPads,
30:01our iPhones, Androids, tablets,
30:04televisions, they do in fact suppress
30:07your melatonin substantially. Because it
30:09your body essentially thinks the sun's
30:11out, is that the problem? So, we have
30:13photoreceptors that are always trying to
30:15gauge what time it is, right? Because
30:17our bodies are wired up to be in sync
30:19with nature. But, only recently, like
30:21literally just the past few decades have
30:23we been able to manipulate and basically
30:24create a second daytime, right? So, your
30:27body just it doesn't really know how to
30:28figure it out. And so, the blue and
30:30white spectrum specifically are the ones
30:32that are more similar to daylight. And
30:35so, what it's doing is and so, here's
30:36what the researchers found. Basically,
30:39every hour you're on your device at
30:40night suppresses melatonin for about 30
30:43minutes. All right, so if you're on your
30:46you know, you're watching a movie 3-hour
30:47movie for example,
30:49your melatonin is going to be suppressed
30:50even if you go to bed right after.
30:51You're not producing adequate melatonin
30:53for about an hour and a half.
30:55And so again, you can be unconscious
30:57from sheer physical exhaustion, but
30:59you're not going to go through your
31:00sleep cycles efficiently.
31:02And so just be mindful of that. What I
31:04encourage people to do is to give
31:06yourself a screen curfew just 30
31:08minutes. All right, I don't want to make
31:10this complicated just 30 minutes, but
31:12here's the rub.
31:14We're addicted to our devices like
31:16straight up. We just need to be on I am.
31:18We all are, you know, basically it's
31:21because of this dopamine loop, right?
31:24Dopamine is so powerful, so interesting.
31:27Dopamine is one of the things I truly
31:29feel has helped to create our
31:31civilization as it is because it drives
31:33us to seek, right? Dopamine drives us to
31:37to to seek and and to grow and to find
31:40to discover. The internet is perfect for
31:42manipulating this because every time you
31:45look for something you find something,
31:46especially social media. You seek find
31:49seek find. You produce the dopamine that
31:51drives you to look, but why do you keep
31:53going is every time you find something
31:54you get a little bit of a a hit from
31:56your opioid system. All right, it's like
31:58this slow drip all right, of morphine.
32:00And so it starts to like feel really
32:02good into the point where you might be
32:04doing your work and like you got a
32:05deadline and you'll just you know, like
32:07I'll check Instagram real quick. Before
32:09you know it it's like 30 minutes later
32:12and you've fallen into the internet
32:13black hole. It's like it just pulls you
32:15in. So be aware of that. I'm not saying
32:17again, our connection with tech is just
32:19going to grow. So I'm not bashing that.
32:21It's just be aware of it and that when
32:23you try to abide by this principle which
32:26will really really help your sleep
32:28quality to give yourself a screen
32:29curfew, you can't just sit there and
32:31twiddle your thumbs because you'll get
32:34what I call the internet jitters, all
32:35right? You'll start getting like
32:37um a little bit of a withdrawal effect.
32:39Like,
32:41let me just check one just one one post.
32:43What we have to do is this, you have to
32:45replace it with something of greater or
32:46equal value. It's really that simple.
32:49Hopefully, is what I encourage people to
32:51do. This is an opportunity to connect,
32:53right? Connect with your significant
32:55other, your kids, the people like
32:57physical like have a real conversation
32:59with somebody, right? I know it sounds
33:01crazy, but it really works. It's really
33:04really good.
33:05And also, this is a great opportunity if
33:07you you know, if you're in a
33:08relationship or not, whatever you're
33:10into, you could you know, utilize and
33:12I've got a chapter on this as well,
33:14intimate time because there's a big
33:16connection between sex and sleep. And
33:18there's also a big connection between
33:19sleep and sex and how it impacts your
33:22sex life.
33:23And so, when we have an orgasm for
33:25example, we produce up chemical I'm
33:27sorry, cocktail of chemicals including
33:29oxytocin,
33:30norepinephrine, prolactin. And oxytocin
33:34for example, has been found clinically
33:35to
33:36basically combat the effects of
33:38cortisol. And hopefully, sex is more
33:41interesting than Instagram, but you
33:43know, I don't know. It depends on how
33:45you're doing it. And so, that's what I
33:46want people to do, a screen curfew and
33:49or use these hacks. Utilize some blue
33:51light blocker blockers. And so, for your
33:54desktops, laptops, things like that, you
33:56can get an app called f.lux
33:58that pulls out the most troublesome
33:59sleep sucking spectrum of light from
34:01your screen. It basically cools your
34:03screen off.
34:04And it's a simple app. You set it and
34:06forget it. It's totally free. You just
34:07go to Dr. Google, type in f.lux
34:11and a couple clicks and it's on your
34:12device. I've been using it for maybe
34:13five or six years. I love it. And for
34:16your
34:17telephone, you know, your cell phone,
34:19we've got on the iPhones built-in now is
34:22night shift. With Androids, the best one
34:25out there
34:27from my research is one called Twilight.
34:29You know, so there's options for
34:30everybody. Then what about the ambient
34:31light at night or if you're watching a
34:33movie? Again, I don't want to get Don't
34:35get too neurotic about it, but if this
34:36is a problem for you and you're not
34:38sleeping as well as you could be or your
34:40results, your body composition not
34:41changing, you're not getting that blood
34:43pressure down, you're not having that
34:44focus you need through the day,
34:46um then you might want to address this,
34:48but
34:49another little hack is to get some blue
34:50light blocking glasses. The first ones I
34:52had was straight up like I just built a
34:54birdhouse. But now there's some really
34:55cool stylish ones that you can rock. As
34:57a matter of fact, you'll create a neuro
34:58association when you put the glasses on
35:01and you'll start to get sleepy. You
35:02know, it's nuts. And that is another
35:05thing right there is to create an
35:08evening ritual. Right? Your brain is
35:10always looking for patterns. A lot of
35:12successful people, especially listening
35:14to the things that you're putting out
35:15there, have a success ritual in the
35:17morning.
35:18But a great morning starts the night
35:21before, you know, a truly great morning.
35:24And so
35:25a couple of quick things people can can
35:27do is the thermal regulation piece. Turn
35:29down the thermostat. All right? Now,
35:31this one's again, this is going to hit a
35:33pressure point for some people, but
35:35according to research between 62 and 68°
35:38F is ideal for sleep. And so, for some
35:43people that's going to sound a little
35:43bit frosty, but it lowering the
35:45thermostat a little bit can
35:47have incredible benefit uh for your
35:49sleep. But this doesn't mean you can't
35:51use your covers and put on some warm
35:53socks, that kind of thing. So,
35:54cooling off this thermostat,
35:57making sure that your bedroom, ideally,
35:59I I call it a sleep sanctuary. And so,
36:02that when you walk into your bedroom at
36:03night, if your brain has a neuro
36:05association when I go into my bedroom,
36:07I'm watching television or I'm working,
36:09those channels are going to fire because
36:11of the myelin getting laid down over the
36:12years of you doing that behavior or even
36:14months it can get laid down. And so, you
36:17might have the intention of going to
36:18bed, but if your TV's in there,
36:20your brain is going to be firing
36:21expecting to watch television and parts
36:23of your brain are going to be waking up
36:24in a way. Mhm. And so,
36:27I encourage people to get the tech out
36:29of your room. Have your sleep Have your
36:31bedroom be a sleep sanctuary, you know,
36:34some place that's just for the the
36:35double S, which is sleep and sex. Here's
36:37also a really interesting reason why.
36:39There's an Italian study done. They
36:41found that couples who have a television
36:42in their bedroom have 50% less sex.
36:44Really?
36:45Yeah. Yeah.
36:46That's interesting. And you know, this
36:47is a little bit more middle-age, little
36:49past middle-age the people in the study.
36:51But and I know some people like, "That's
36:52not true. I have sex all the time." You
36:54probably do it in a snowstorm. Like it
36:56doesn't matter where you are. Like
36:57you're a human rabbit. It doesn't
36:59matter. But for other people, it's like
37:02a distraction. Right. It's a distraction
37:05and it can also, you know, um
37:08create all of those kind of chemical
37:09soup issues that we've been talking
37:11about with elevating cortisol and those
37:12kind of things. So,
37:13I ideally, get your television out of
37:15the room,
37:16uh the other tech.
37:18And last thing with the sleep
37:20environment I'll share, when I talked
37:21about melatonin, you need those two two
37:23conditions, biological night.
37:25And you also need a dark environment.
37:27And so, if you're in an environment
37:28where you're maybe in a suburban or city
37:30environment where there's like
37:32neighbors' porch lights coming in,
37:34there's LEDs outside, cars coming up and
37:36down the street,
37:38as crazy as this sounds, that
37:41that small amount of light, what we're
37:42now dubbing light pollution,
37:44can have a significant impact on your
37:46sleep quality. And here's here's why we
37:48know this. Cornell University did I
37:50think of the best study on this. And
37:51they took a test subject and had them
37:53sleep in a otherwise dark room. And they
37:55took a a light, a fiber optic cable and
37:57a light the size of a quarter and put it
37:59behind their knee. And that was enough
38:01to disrupt their sleep cycle.
38:03Because your skin also has
38:04photoreceptors that are sending
38:06information to your brain, your nervous
38:07system, your internal organs to try to
38:09tell your body what time it is. It's
38:10trying to figure it out.
38:12You know, so we want to get rid of that
38:13artificial light exposure.
38:16Now, does this mean moonlight and stars?
38:17No, humans have evolved with those
38:19things. And their lux, like I actually
38:20put a lux chart in the book, is so small
38:23compared to even the weakest fluorescent
38:26bulbs.
38:27And so, get yourself some blackout
38:28curtains if that external light is an
38:30issue.
38:32Internal light, you know, your alarm
38:34clocks and you know, light, you know,
38:36lamps, you know, some people still are
38:38sleeping with their lights on and things
38:39like that. Be mindful of that and also
38:42what you can do is just change the bulb
38:43color.
38:44You know, if you still have issues with
38:46the dark, which some adults do and
38:47that's okay.
38:49Um
38:50you can change the bulb color color and
38:52I actually had some NASA scientists, or
38:54people that work with them, to send me
38:56some different bulbs because
38:58folks in space, they don't have that
38:59biological clock.
39:01And so, they would experience all these
39:03different health challenges. And they
39:05had to try to figure it out, they knew
39:06that it was an issue with their sleep.
39:07And so, they started to give them
39:08different bulbs for different times of
39:10day, in a way, you know, even though
39:12they're in outer space.
39:14So, it's really cool what you can do
39:15with these little hacks, but bottom line
39:17is you want to have a dark cycle so you
39:19can produce melatonin. And you know,
39:21those are just a few, those are just a
39:23few of the different things people can
39:24do. If sleep is so good for me and
39:26dreams are amazing and they help with
39:28creativity and they they take the sharp
39:30edges off my emotions, why the hell do I
39:33have nightmares?
39:36Yeah, so what we know is that nightmares
39:38aren't necessarily pathological.
39:41Um and we we know that in some
39:43conditions, and PTSD is a is a very good
39:46example of this, that they can sort of
39:49step over that threshold from being
39:51normative to non-normative. And they
39:54they can be very concerning and and and
39:56disruptive to people and it's also very
39:58traumatic too, to relive those and and
40:01wake up from them. We do think it's part
40:03of the same process of sort of emotional
40:06regulation, that it's the brain trying
40:09to understand and better comprehend what
40:12this thing called waking life and all of
40:14its emotional peaks and troughs are all
40:18about. So,
40:20the bottom line here is that as long as
40:22they're not causing you distress and
40:24harm, then you don't have to worry about
40:26them.
40:27If they are doing that though, there are
40:29new clinical therapies for um what we
40:32call nightmare um disorders.
40:35And it involves usually just what you
40:37were describing before, which is
40:39speaking with a therapist, writing down
40:42the nightmare, and then replaying it
40:46while you are awake, sort of you know,
40:48speaking about it, writing it back down,
40:51working with a therapist, and
40:52essentially trying to sort of just say,
40:55"Look, okay, in that context, it's safe.
40:57Let's better understand that."
40:59And repeatedly doing that type of work
41:02where you're sort of
41:04reactivating the nightmare, and then
41:06trying to change the context to
41:08something that's safe or that's less
41:11fearful or that's less negative,
41:13gradually over time, that type of work
41:16can dissipate the frequency and the
41:18severity of those nightmares. So,
41:20nightmares by themselves, not
41:22necessarily a bad thing. If they are
41:24causing you problems, you can go and
41:25speak to your doctor, and there are some
41:27therapies for that that you can sort of
41:28just Google around um nightmare therapy,
41:31etc., and those will help.
41:33Yeah, and that like the way in which
41:37your brain chooses to interpret its sort
41:41of dream reassessment of the real world
41:44will have huge implications in your
41:46life. It could be PTSD, it could be a
41:49bazillion things. I have a feeling, I
41:51have never had this thought before, but
41:53I have a feeling that
41:55the more we learn about how individual
41:59brains recontextualize things, and how
42:01much the conscious mind and subconscious
42:03mind sort of come into cahoots to decide
42:06how they're going to align things up,
42:07because when I was in my early 20s and I
42:09was convinced I I stupid, I was
42:11interpreting the world one way that was
42:13just had me paralyzed by fear. And then
42:15as I began to realize sort of the nature
42:17of the brain and oh, just cuz I'm stupid
42:18now, it doesn't mean I can't learn about
42:20this.
42:20You know, that Carol Dweck's notion of
42:22yet, right? I'm not good yet. And so
42:24that since then, consciously I have
42:27changed the way that I frame things. But
42:29I would bet a bazillion dollars that I'm
42:31also doing that subconsciously as my
42:32brain sort of processes the day.
42:36I think that's what, you know, dreaming
42:38if if it's one of its functions, is that
42:41recontextualizing of those experiences.
42:44You know, dreaming I think is a is a way
42:46for us to understand the world in which
42:49we live.
42:50And we can do it whilst we're awake. You
42:52know, I'm not suggesting that we don't
42:54form connections and we don't see links
42:57between different pieces of information.
42:59But the way that we do it in dreaming is
43:01very different. You know, I often liken
43:03it to when we're awake, you're sort of
43:05inputting this information into the
43:07brain and it's almost like a Google
43:09search page one. Where you insert your
43:12search term, you hit return, and you get
43:14the most obvious, immediate hits, the
43:16direct connections. That's what waking
43:18is all about. Dreaming is you inserting
43:22the search term, hitting the return
43:24button, and being taken straight to page
43:2620.
43:27You know, and you inserted, you know,
43:29Impact Theory University.
43:32And all of a sudden, on page 20, it's
43:33about a field hockey game in Utah. And
43:36you think, "Hang on a second, what on
43:38earth is But then you read it and you
43:40think, "Ah, I can It's a distant, wacky
43:43connection."
43:44And it's not obvious to me that I would
43:45have made that, but it's a potentially
43:47powerful one. Because when you start to
43:49fuse things together that shouldn't
43:51normally go together, but they cause
43:53these marked advances in evolutionary
43:55fitness, it sounds like the biological
43:58basis of creativity.
44:00And that's one of the things that we're
44:02learning about with dream sleep as well.
44:04Contextualization,
44:05emotional resolution, creativity.
44:09Yeah, so, you know, as we start talking
44:11about dreaming and nightmares and all of
44:15the different ways that the brain is
44:16sort of interacting,
44:18uh, trying to make sense of the
44:20conscious world, one thing I heard you
44:22talk about is cognitive behavioral
44:24therapy for insomnia, which I found very
44:28interesting and I know so little about
44:30it, but knowing what I know about
44:32cognitive behavioral therapy in terms of
44:33pattern interrupting and things like
44:35that, are you Is this like us sending a
44:38sort of subconscious signal to our
44:40brain? Like, how does that work?
44:42Not quite. So,
44:44what we know, obviously, has been the
44:46rise of sleep difficulties in society
44:49and that has been matched by,
44:51unfortunately, a rise in pharmacology
44:54and particularly sleeping pills. And I
44:56say unfortunately not because I'm
44:57anti-medication and I know a lot of
44:59people who work at these pharmaceutical
45:01companies and they're good people, great
45:03scientists wanting to do good things.
45:05But, unfortunately, sleeping pills are
45:07largely blunt instruments and they don't
45:10produce naturalistic sleep. Um, they're
45:13in a class of drugs that we call the
45:14sedative hypnotics.
45:16And when we take sleeping pills, we
45:18mistake sedation for sleep, but it's not
45:21natural sleep. And in fact, um, sleeping
45:24pills have been associated with a
45:26significantly higher risk of death as
45:28well as cancer.
45:30So much so that in 2016, the American
45:33College of Physicians made a landmark
45:35recommended, um, intervention. They said
45:37that sleeping pills must no longer be
45:40the first-line treatment for, uh,
45:42insomnia. Instead, the American College
45:44of Physicians said it has to be
45:46cognitive behavioral therapy for
45:48insomnia that must be the first-line
45:51recommended treatment for those sleep
45:53problems.
45:54And so, cognitive behavioral therapy in
45:57general really tries to target two
45:59things, cognitive and behavioral.
46:02And so, the cognitive aspects for
46:05insomnia are aspects where we try to
46:07correct your beliefs or your misbeliefs
46:10around sleep. And some of your ideas
46:13around sleep. Some of those things that
46:15can be either inappropriate, incorrect,
46:18or just triggering anxiety or worry. So,
46:21we try to modify those cognitions, those
46:24beliefs. But, then we also look at what
46:27you're doing in your life, the different
46:29behaviors that you're doing or things
46:31that you're not doing. And try to
46:33correct the behaviors as well. For
46:35example, how's your caffeine intake?
46:37How's your alcohol intake? What time are
46:39you going to bed? What time are you
46:40waking up? What's your chronotype? Are
46:42you a morning type, evening type? Are
46:44you sleeping in harmony with your
46:46chronotype or against your chronotype?
46:49Um, are you getting daylight in the
46:51morning? Are you getting too much
46:53daylight at light at night, artificial
46:55light at night? Do you exercise?
46:58And so, we change behaviors and we
47:01change thought patterns and together,
47:04cognitive behavioral therapy for
47:05insomnia is just as effective as
47:08sleeping pills in the short term. But,
47:10what's great is that when you stop
47:12working with that clinician, um, or your
47:15online program, and I should say that I,
47:18um, I'm, uh, work with a a company, uh,
47:21I'm an advisor to a company called
47:22Shuni. Um, it's s h uh, u n i.io.
47:28If people want to go and explore it. And
47:30you can get cognitive behavioral therapy
47:32online there. But, you work with your
47:34therapist and after about, uh, five or
47:37six sessions,
47:39you can continue that benefit of
47:42improved sleep for up to five years. The
47:45studies have demonstrated now. Whereas
47:47with sleeping pills, when you stop their
47:51use, then not only do you go back to the
47:53bad sleep that you you were having, you
47:55typically go back to even worse sleep.
47:57It's called rebound insomnia, and now
48:00you have to go back onto the use. So,
48:02you become dependent. There is an
48:04addiction dependency cycle. So, that's
48:07really what CBT-I is, and that's really
48:10the best approach for sleeping problems
48:12right now.
48:13All right. So, I have two sleeping
48:16problems. One is that there are times
48:18where I will get um either really
48:21stressed or I'll get really excited, and
48:24I have a very easy time falling asleep,
48:26but then I'll wake up after 3 or 4
48:27hours, and I find it very difficult to
48:30fall back asleep. And then the second
48:33part, just so I don't forget, is sleep
48:35inertia in the morning. But, what can I
48:37do to um optimize for staying asleep?
48:44Yes. So, there it's a case of trying to
48:47deal with that sort of downgrade the
48:50activation of the nervous system. The
48:52reason that people typically wake up uh
48:54in the middle of the night and can't get
48:55back to sleep, not always, but often, is
48:58because they have this sort of stress
49:00related carrying this anxiety. And
49:02anxiety, biologically, is the principal
49:05mechanism that we think underlies most
49:07insomnia.
49:09And what happens, in part, is that the
49:11fight-or-flight branch of the nervous
49:13system becomes overactive.
49:16And that's exactly the opposite of
49:18down? Like, I find it so easy to fall
49:20asleep, but I can tell on the nights
49:22where I'm going to wake up.
49:24Yeah. Seems weird that it dips, but then
49:26my subconscious mind kicks it back
49:28alive. Yeah. Why why would it be that
49:30way? And the reason is because, after
49:31about 16 hours of wakefulness, you build
49:34up a lot of that healthy sleepiness,
49:36what we call sleep pressure. And the
49:38longer that you're awake, the more of
49:40that sleep pressure builds up. And it's
49:42a chemical that builds up in the brain
49:43called adenosine.
49:45And then, when we go into sleep, it's
49:47the time when the brain can actually
49:49start to clear out that adenosine. And
49:52it's so it starts to lower the sleep
49:54pressure. And after about 8 hours of
49:56sleep, you've cleared away 16 hours of
49:58that adenosine, of that sleepiness. And
50:01so you wake up naturally and you feel
50:03refreshed and restored.
50:05But what will happen is that you can be
50:07stressed and sort of or excited, but the
50:10sleepiness the weight of sleepiness
50:12pulling you down is so heavy at that
50:14point that you can get to sleep. But
50:17then three or four hours later, you
50:19jettisoned maybe 50% of all of that
50:22adenosine, maybe even more because it
50:24principally happens during deep sleep.
50:26And so now your brain is much more
50:29vulnerable to those awakenings because
50:31it doesn't have the weight of that
50:33sleepiness. Does that Does that make
50:34some sense?
50:35It makes total sense and it makes me
50:36want to punch myself back to sleep. It's
50:39so obnoxious. Well, because the the
50:42benefits or or I should say the the
50:45damage that you do by not getting sleep
50:48is so terrifying that I'm every time I
50:51wake up, I'm like,
50:52"Come on." Like you know how much better
50:55you will perform if you just sleep. And
50:56I am not one of those guys that's like,
50:58"Hey, I you got to grind in 4 hours
51:00sleep." I'm like, "If I need 9 hours of
51:02sleep, I want to get 9 hours of sleep
51:04every single night forever until the end
51:06of time." So it's just always super
51:09obnoxious.
51:10hoisting that flag, I will salute it and
51:12I definitely
51:13you know, not everyone, but certainly in
51:15the type A sort of particularly business
51:17culture maybe, there is this sort of
51:19sleep machoism attitude where people
51:21wear their lack of sleep like a badge of
51:24honor. Um but you're right, it's it's
51:26foolhardy for a number of reasons. But
51:28let me come back to that issue of of you
51:31know, beating ourselves up because
51:33we need to have some degree of
51:35self-compassion when it comes to sleep.
51:37You know, I am not invulnerable to sleep
51:39problems myself. I've had bouts of
51:41insomnia throughout my life to be
51:42completely transparent and open with
51:44you.
51:45Um
51:46and everyone every one of us is going to
51:49have a bad night of sleep. It's not
51:51unusual. Don't worry, don't stress. You
51:54know, back when I was starting to write
51:55the book, it took me about 4 years to
51:57write it. In 2014,
51:59you know, sleep was sort of the
52:00neglected step sister in the health
52:02conversation of that time.
52:05And I was so saddened by the sickness
52:08and the disease and the suffering that
52:09was happening because of a lack of
52:11sleep. You know, I came out, you know,
52:13all guns blazing. And I think that that
52:17was important, but
52:19for those people who were struggling
52:20with sleep, those people who had sleep
52:22problems with insomnia, you know, the
52:24book kind of felt almost as though it
52:26was, you know, sleep or else {dot} {dot}
52:29{dot}.
52:30Um,
52:30and I didn't mean it to be that way. So,
52:33I want to say right now because I've
52:35I've learned to soften and become a much
52:38better appreciator of these conditions
52:40just like you described.
52:43If you wake up and you can't get back to
52:45sleep, don't worry. Just realize tonight
52:48is not my night. It's not the end of the
52:50world. I'm still going to be able to
52:51function somewhat tomorrow.
52:54Don't stay in bed awake for too long,
52:57though. That's the important message
52:59here. Because very tricky. I'm super
53:01curious to see what you think about this
53:04because I know where you're going,
53:05right? You have you're training yourself
53:06that being in bed is is being awake is
53:08okay while you're in bed. So, I used to
53:11get up and whether I slept for 2 hours,
53:133 hours, whatever, if I couldn't fall
53:15back asleep in like 15 minutes, I'd get
53:16out of bed. And I would go to work and
53:20start doing my thing, and then I would
53:22go lay back down and sleep. And
53:23sometimes I'd fall asleep for, you know,
53:252 or 3 more hours. But the number of
53:27times I would wake up with a headache
53:28after that was just too much. So, it was
53:31way frustrated, and I'm like, all right,
53:32there's got to be something else. So,
53:34what I found is if I put an audiobook
53:36on, dude, I will be back asleep in like
53:3810 or 15 minutes. It's crazy. And the
53:40only thing that wakes me up is the fact
53:42that I have headphones in my ears or if
53:45they start yelling in the book or
53:46something like that, which always pisses
53:48me off. Uh but it puts me back to sleep
53:51so reliably, it's crazy.
53:55That's great. That's exactly what we
53:56recommend. So, don't go to work, don't
53:59start checking emails, don't eat because
54:00it trains the brain to expect food. But
54:03instead in a dim room, somewhere
54:05different, so you change the context, so
54:07you're changing the learned association.
54:09Just read a book, listen to an audio
54:11book, um meditate in dim light. All of
54:14these things are great. Find out
54:16whatever works for you.
54:17And then only when you're sleepy do you
54:20return to bed and there's no time limit
54:22for that.
54:23And that way you train the brain back
54:26out of a bad association that it's
54:28learned, which is my bed is this place
54:30of being awake, which if you repeat that
54:32over time, you become trained to be
54:34awake in the bed.
54:36And then you will relearn the
54:38association that your bed is the place
54:40where you're asleep. So, you're 100%
54:43right. That's exactly what we recommend.
54:45Um to your second question, which is
54:48sleep inertia, it's a real thing. Sleep
54:50inertia is typically where we wake up
54:53and your brain requires some time to
54:57kind of warm up to operating
54:58temperature. Like an old vintage car,
55:01you know, you can't just turn the engine
55:02on and start, you know, flooring it and
55:05going up to redline. You need to sort of
55:07circulate the fluids and warm the oil up
55:09and get the engine warm and then you can
55:12really start to push it. It's the same
55:14way with our brain in some ways. Now,
55:17different people have different
55:19severities of sleep inertia. I'm
55:21actually like you. I suffer from quite
55:23bad sleep inertia. You know, for the
55:25first hour, you know, my partner, she
55:28when I come through in the morning, she
55:29wakes up a little bit earlier than me,
55:31you know, she kind of knows that I can
55:33say, "Look, honey, I am not the best
55:36version of myself in the first hour. I I
55:38know that I may have done something bad
55:40yesterday and we should talk about it
55:42and I I want to resolve that, but can we
55:45not do it in the first hour because I'm
55:47not the best version. So, firstly
55:49accepting that it's normal and it's
55:51real.
55:52The second thing though, however, is you
55:55can
55:56sleep inertia typically happens in very
55:59severe amounts if you're mismatched
56:01between your sleep schedule and your
56:04chronotype and some schedule.
56:07And so, you can go on and you can go
56:09online and type Google morningness
56:12eveningness questionnaire.
56:14And it's a questionnaire that you fill
56:16out and it figures out what your
56:17chronotype is. Are you a morning type,
56:20somewhere in between, or you an evening
56:22type?
56:23And what we find is that morning types
56:26when they wake up in the morning at
56:28their normal time, which is very early
56:30or early, they don't have sleep inertia.
56:33They're good to go. They can jump into
56:34the gym and they're like Energizer
56:37bunnies and they're all happy and you
56:39know, joyful. And to me I'm just like,
56:40oh.
56:41You know,
56:43whereas evening types waking up at the
56:46time that morning types have to wake up,
56:48which is in some ways the way society is
56:50designed. Society is desperately biased
56:53against evening types.
56:55And wrongfully so because it's not your
56:57fault. It's genetically determined.
56:59There are about six or seven genes that
57:01we know right now that dictate what your
57:03chronotype is. It's not your fault. It's
57:06gifted to you at birth.
57:07You don't get to choose.
57:10Now, if you are suffering from sleep
57:11inertia, what
57:13we find is that if you can sleep a
57:15little bit later in the morning, go to
57:17bed a little maybe a little bit later,
57:19sleep later, play around with that and
57:21see if the speed with which you wake up
57:25is better, that your sleep inertia is
57:27less.
57:28That's one way. It may not always work.
57:30Another way is temperature.
57:32Now, it turns out that when people have
57:34a cup of coffee, they say, "Look, I just
57:36need like 5 minutes and I I swig a
57:38couple of, you know, mouthfuls of coffee
57:41and now I'm alert." That's nonsense.
57:43Caffeine doesn't actually get into your
57:45system until about 12 to 15 minutes. So,
57:47if you're feeling any effects of
57:49caffeine before that, it's not the
57:51caffeine.
57:52It turns out that when we go to sleep,
57:56we drop our our core body temperature.
57:58We get very cold. We become almost
58:00hypothermic.
58:02Now, to wake up, we have to warm up.
58:06So, to to get to sleep, we need to get
58:09cold. To stay asleep, we need to stay
58:11cold. And to wake up, we need to warm
58:14up.
58:15And so, one way that you can
58:16artificially accelerate or try
58:18accelerating
58:20your inertia in a quicker dissipating
58:22manner is to try to warm up more
58:25quickly. So, get a hot drink in the
58:27morning. Doesn't have to be caffeine if
58:28that's not your thing. I don't drink
58:30caffeine, but I'm not against it.
58:32Caffeine is an issue
58:34It's not the really the dose that makes
58:36the poison. It's the timing that makes
58:38the poison when it comes to sleep and
58:40caffeine, which we can come on to, but
58:42drink a hot drink, get your body
58:44temperature up. If you like, if you've
58:46got a smart thermostat, program it to
58:49start to rise temperature in your
58:51bedroom or in the house in the last hour
58:54before your alarm.
58:56And you can it can really start to help
58:57you wake up. And then play around with
58:59these smart lights. I have one where it
59:01sort of starts to bring me out of sleep
59:03about 5 minutes before my alarm. That
59:06can help, but the data is not good on
59:08that. The data on temperature, much
59:09better. That's interesting. Does that
59:11help you, Tom? It does, but I'm
59:12surprised that you say to get warm
59:15because have you done cold showers
59:16before?
59:19Yeah, cold showers are
59:21sort of more of a noradrenaline thing.
59:23Yes, they they wake you up real fast.
59:27They do. Now, that's not necessarily a
59:30normative thing, you know, that's you,
59:33you know, shocking your fight or flight
59:35branch of the nervous system to go from
59:38a temperature that it's become
59:39accustomed to and it's acclimated to to
59:42then all of a sudden being dumped in ice
59:44water as it were, and it doesn't know
59:47it's a threat mechanism. It thinks
59:49you're under attack, and so of course
59:50you're going to wake up.
59:52Now, that comes with an adrenergic spike
59:54in the body. It comes with an
59:55accelerated heart rate. It could come
59:58with a cortisol spike. So, I'm not
1:00:00against that, but we don't have to go to
1:00:03those extremes. You can do it in these
1:00:05more subtle manners, which are all the
1:00:06more natural ways. Mhm, fair enough.
1:00:10Um
1:00:11I have a question going back to waking
1:00:13up in the middle of the night.
1:00:16One thing that is super weird is things
1:00:19that during the day are not in any way,
1:00:22shape, or form intimidating or daunting
1:00:24when I'm supposed to be sleeping. So, if
1:00:26I wake up in the middle of the night,
1:00:27I'll start stressing about something,
1:00:29and I'll I'm literally like, once I get
1:00:31out of bed, this is not going to stress
1:00:32me out. So, why is it stressing me out
1:00:35at night? Is there a part of my brain
1:00:36that shuts off? Is there a part of my
1:00:37brain that becomes active? Like, why are
1:00:39things at night do they seem so big and
1:00:42dramatic? Whereas in the day, it's like,
1:00:43meh, it's not a big deal.
1:00:46Yeah, I we actually don't really fully
1:00:48understand it in truth, but part of this
1:00:50is to do with context. That it's dark.
1:00:54Um you don't have full awareness. You
1:00:56don't have full functioning of the brain
1:00:59because when we wake up, that sleep
1:01:00inertia, by the way, in part is because
1:01:02your prefrontal cortex, which is the
1:01:04part of the brain that makes us most
1:01:06human, it's like the CEO of the brain,
1:01:08it's very good at understanding
1:01:10high-level concepts, putting things into
1:01:12contextually appropriate boxes, making
1:01:15top-down control decisions. It regulates
1:01:17our emotions.
1:01:19That part of the brain is the last thing
1:01:20to come back online as we wake up and
1:01:23that's why we're not very, you know,
1:01:24brilliant if we have sleep inertia. But
1:01:27when we're waking up out of sleep in the
1:01:29middle of the night, we also have some
1:01:30of that. So, we don't have the rational
1:01:32logical part of our brain fully engaged.
1:01:35Plus the context is one that's dark and
1:01:38so we don't have sort of the daylight
1:01:41sort of giving us this sort of normative
1:01:43safe feeling. And so what happens is
1:01:46that the brain starts to default to
1:01:48rumination and catastrophization.
1:01:51You know, it's almost like this Rolodex
1:01:53of anxiety that then starts to unfold
1:01:56and that one memory that, you know, you
1:01:58bring back into mind um at that moment
1:02:01of waking up is the finger that flicks
1:02:03the domino on that cascade of of, you
1:02:06know, rumination. So, again, just
1:02:09realize I've done this before, I've
1:02:11experienced this before. I know that
1:02:13tomorrow by, you know, 1:00 or 2:00 p.m.
1:02:15in the afternoon, I think about this and
1:02:17I think, "That was ridiculous to be
1:02:19worrying about." It's okay. Try to
1:02:21remind yourself of that.
1:02:23Well, as that, my friend, you and I are
1:02:25living in a golden era of
1:02:26self-improvement. We have books,
1:02:28platforms like YouTube, courses,
1:02:30seminars, virtual events, workshops. The
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1:03:34Project Kaizen, which by the way gets
1:03:36its name from the Japanese term of
1:03:38never-ending improvement. All right,
1:03:40back to today's episode. Did you read
1:03:42the book Change or Die? I haven't. So,
1:03:45the the concept is pretty
1:03:47straightforward. You tell people to
1:03:48change and most people don't. So, even
1:03:50if the outcome is, "Hey, if you don't
1:03:52take this pill." And I think it was that
1:03:53simple. It's like you have to take a
1:03:55pill once a day every day, and
1:03:57compliance after like 3 months or
1:03:58something drops to like 5%
1:04:01which is crazy. But, what I love is that
1:04:04you didn't hit that and go, "Oh, well,
1:04:05that's just a thing." You dive into
1:04:07human behavior. What did you learn in
1:04:09that discovery process about human
1:04:11behavior? What's working against us? How
1:04:12do we begin to take hold of it? And then
1:04:14maybe most interestingly, what is the
1:04:16loop method?
1:04:17Sure.
1:04:18The idea is in order for somebody to
1:04:20adopt and sustain a health behavior for
1:04:21a long term, not just a 30-day trial or
1:04:2460-day period, so this becomes a part of
1:04:27their pattern of living. They should
1:04:29know why they are doing something,
1:04:31how to do it,
1:04:33if they're doing it, and if it's
1:04:34working.
1:04:35Mhm. And you can see that each one of
1:04:36those four components independently
1:04:39will reinforce somebody's ability to
1:04:41pick something up and take and and go
1:04:43with it.
1:04:44So, oftentimes what you'll see is that
1:04:46if somebody doesn't, let's say, change
1:04:48their behavior when information is given
1:04:50to them, you might just lob more
1:04:51information provisions at them, right?
1:04:53Oh, here's more information. But, maybe
1:04:55they just didn't have the skills to
1:04:57implement that good idea. Or they tried
1:04:59it for a little bit and then their old
1:05:00behaviors were swept back up. They
1:05:02didn't have any feedback or to say,
1:05:03"This is actually Are you living in
1:05:05accordance with your own goals?"
1:05:07Or maybe they just didn't know if it was
1:05:08actually working or not. And because
1:05:10one,
1:05:12you know, insidiously challenging aspect
1:05:14of our health is that a lot of things
1:05:15that are good for us might be what I
1:05:17call the meaningful but invisible.
1:05:19They matter, but we don't get that
1:05:21feedback to make us immediately detect
1:05:23if it's having a presence. And it might
1:05:25be, right? You might have a significant
1:05:27improvement in let's say memory
1:05:28performance over a 12-week period, but
1:05:30you're but you might not recognize it by
1:05:33the time you get there. It might
1:05:34actually feel like you're just
1:05:35performing as you've always been. And
1:05:37that actually can go up and down,
1:05:38improvements and decrements.
1:05:40So, is there a way to then use
1:05:42technology to then make people more
1:05:44informed about things that can help
1:05:46them, more informed about their own
1:05:48patterns of living, and then empowered
1:05:50to put all that into practice? And I
1:05:52actually think that we need technology
1:05:54in this world to help us take care of
1:05:57our health well. I found this so
1:05:58interesting in some of your talks.
1:06:00Define health. Yes. So, that question
1:06:03was posed to me a while ago,
1:06:06and I totally stumbled on it. It's one
1:06:07of those broad questions
1:06:09that is hard to define. I think probably
1:06:13the explanation that I like the most is
1:06:15that it is a the ability to maintain
1:06:18balance or homeostasis within the body.
1:06:20So, if you are challenged by some sort
1:06:23of, you know, infection or arm break, it
1:06:26your ability to get back to a place of
1:06:28balance is a marker of health. But it is
1:06:30also more than that. It is It is
1:06:33something that can we can use as a
1:06:34currency to realize our goals and
1:06:37aspirations in our life. And I think if
1:06:39you take that you drink that in, and you
1:06:41believe it, then all these things that
1:06:43can feel like friction
1:06:45might actually just be opportunities to
1:06:48live in a through the the fullest
1:06:50version of yourself.
1:06:51Mhm. I love that definition. So, now
1:06:53let's say that I have that, but I'm
1:06:54still struggling to implement. What are
1:06:56the behaviors Yeah. and like what are
1:06:58the behavior modification tools that
1:06:59people can put in place to comply? I
1:07:01think the first aspect of this is to
1:07:04clearly understand the problem at hand.
1:07:07Right? If you don't really know what
1:07:08your your challenge is, your
1:07:12own efforts will be either inefficient
1:07:14or you won't really know if you're
1:07:15headed in the right direction, even
1:07:16though you're spinning your wheels.
1:07:17We're born into a time where the default
1:07:19settings around us and the expectations
1:07:21of our environment and the pressures of
1:07:22culture and work
1:07:24and even the built environment will
1:07:26predictably lead to issues with our
1:07:28health, chronic disease.
1:07:30We have to be a little bit weird. We
1:07:32have to make a daily effort to
1:07:34counteract those forces, to affect our
1:07:36pattern of living so that we actually
1:07:38are being good stewards of our health.
1:07:41It's not something that is just there
1:07:42until it's gone. It's something that you
1:07:44need to cultivate and nurture.
1:07:46Then next, you want to be a lifetime
1:07:48learner because 15, 20 years ago,
1:07:50circadian rhythms, the gut microbiota,
1:07:52things like that were not a part of any
1:07:54model that was used to predict or
1:07:57describe health.
1:07:58We know information is changing
1:08:00regularly. So, I love that saying, um
1:08:03have strong opinions held loosely.
1:08:05Which means to me that you take the time
1:08:08to form an understanding now, but you
1:08:11don't defend that at all in the face of
1:08:14new information. So, you need to be have
1:08:15the ability to upgrade that, to up-level
1:08:17that.
1:08:18And then, you have to be able to take
1:08:20big concepts that you learn about and
1:08:22personalize it into the fabric of your
1:08:23life, your family, your kids, whatever
1:08:26that is. How can you take this idea that
1:08:28you think is going to benefit you and
1:08:29make it real for you?
1:08:31Because if it's too if it there's too
1:08:33much friction and conflict, you don't
1:08:35personalize it, you follow rules, you
1:08:37might be able to do that for 2 weeks, 3
1:08:38weeks, but then you'll really likely to
1:08:40go back to whatever patterns you had
1:08:42previously.
1:08:44What else? I think your response to
1:08:45failure. Right? Failure is a part of the
1:08:47process, a regular part of the process.
1:08:50Can you address failure with compassion
1:08:52for yourself and also with resilience
1:08:54where you're like, "Oh, what can I learn
1:08:55about the fact that I wanted to go to
1:08:57the gym four times this week, but I went
1:08:58twice?
1:08:59What was it about the week? Constant
1:09:01assessment uh to then just
1:09:04know how you can do better next week. So
1:09:06interesting that as you're talking about
1:09:08how to get people to comply with health
1:09:10stuff that you're talking about mindset.
1:09:11In the beginning, so when I first
1:09:13started this film uh everything journey
1:09:16and talked through all these problems,
1:09:18it was why is the protein bar guy
1:09:19talking about mindset?
1:09:21Yeah. And then when I exited Quest and
1:09:23started Impact Theory and did all this
1:09:25mindset stuff and then I said, "Guys,
1:09:26we're going to do a show called Health
1:09:27Theory." Everyone's like, "Why is the
1:09:29mindset guy talking about health?" And
1:09:30it's been like this constant frustration
1:09:32for me for people to understand if you
1:09:34want to optimize for your health, you
1:09:36have to optimize your mindset. If you
1:09:37want to optimize for your mindset, you
1:09:39have to take care of your health.
1:09:41Yeah. And because I talk a lot about
1:09:43working hard and busting ass and all
1:09:44that and what greatness demands, people
1:09:45think that I don't sleep. They think
1:09:47that I just grind my way to success.
1:09:49Yep. The reality is that if and you've
1:09:52talked really powerfully about this, if
1:09:53you want to even have good
1:09:55decision-making abilities,
1:09:57Yeah. you've got to sleep. Run us
1:09:58through like a sleep 101, why it's so
1:10:01foundational to your work, and what
1:10:04people should be doing. Yeah. I left a
1:10:06company that I loved at a job that I
1:10:08loved to start a startup and my PhD.
1:10:12And I thought it could
1:10:14all implode. It would be too much for me
1:10:16to handle.
1:10:18And so I thought if I'm going to
1:10:20upregulate my ability to show up every
1:10:21day, I need to then
1:10:24basically take care of the machinery
1:10:26that is doing the work.
1:10:27So what is it that makes me feel sharp
1:10:31every day? And sleep then is of course
1:10:33one component of that.
1:10:34And
1:10:36what I've realized is so it's funny, we
1:10:38kind of encapsulate sleep as it's this
1:10:40packaged thing, but it's almost like,
1:10:42"Tell me about daytime." Right? It's a
1:10:44big window, you know? And what sleep
1:10:46ends up being is a very great window
1:10:48into your soul, you know? And into the
1:10:49into the workings of the brain and how
1:10:51like what is happening physiologically.
1:10:53So you really understand
1:10:55um it gives you a window to like narrow
1:10:58the field a little bit to then
1:10:59understand how our physiology works in
1:11:00general. If you had to make a hypothesis
1:11:03about two or three reasons why we sleep,
1:11:06what do you think are the two or three
1:11:07most important things that happen while
1:11:08people are sleeping?
1:11:09Yeah, it's a good question because it's
1:11:10been almost like definition of health
1:11:13under what is the solitary unitary
1:11:15purpose of sleep has been notably hard
1:11:16to define. We know very important things
1:11:19can happen. It's purging of energetic
1:11:21byproducts. It's purging of potentially
1:11:23neurotoxic products that are a result of
1:11:25that. It is plasticity that's forming.
1:11:28It is reregulation of our immune system.
1:11:29There's a lot going on. And I think
1:11:32there has not yet been one I think model
1:11:34that explains everything, but we do know
1:11:37that incredibly important things occur.
1:11:39So what are people doing that messes up
1:11:41their sleep? Yeah, so that's a it's a
1:11:43really good question. And the
1:11:45the common question that you get is how
1:11:47much sleep do you need?
1:11:48Right? How much time should I be in bed?
1:11:50It's easy. But the things that matter
1:11:52for sleep are our timing, intensity, and
1:11:53duration. So duration is sort of the
1:11:55easy one. It's that what I tell people
1:11:57is spend enough time in bed so that you
1:11:59wake naturally.
1:12:02That means you're not waking by an
1:12:03alarm. And so what I like to get what I
1:12:06call complete sleep is
1:12:08aim to spend half an hour more in bed
1:12:11than what you think you'll need so that
1:12:13if your body needs it on that night,
1:12:15you'll get it.
1:12:16Now you might not ever need it or you
1:12:18might not need it or you might need it
1:12:19rarely, but allow for complete sleep to
1:12:21happen.
1:12:23You also want the timing of your sleep
1:12:25to be regular. So if for instance, you
1:12:29go to bed usually from midnight and wake
1:12:31up at 8:00, but tonight you go to bed at
1:12:334:00 a.m. and you wake up at noon, it's
1:12:348 hours, but the sleep will not be as
1:12:37restorative as it was if you were
1:12:39sleeping in that same window every night
1:12:40because we now are introducing concept
1:12:42of circadian rhythms which are
1:12:43repeatable 24-hour processes. So when
1:12:45you're getting REM sleep at 4:00 a.m.,
1:12:48your body because of your past
1:12:50experience over the last several weeks
1:12:51knows, do REM-like activities at that
1:12:54time. And so, it'll be more efficient.
1:12:56Sleep itself will be more efficient at
1:12:57doing what it wants to do if you
1:13:00regularize the timing of your sleep.
1:13:02And then, you have intensity, and that
1:13:04is really not something that you can
1:13:06take action on directly. Go sleep hard.
1:13:10But, you can do things during the day
1:13:11that then will facilitate depth. And you
1:13:13can also create an environment that is
1:13:15less disruptive. Okay, so talk to me.
1:13:17What can I do during the day to make
1:13:18sure that I'm sleeping hard?
1:13:20So, if you look at people that undergo
1:13:22bed rest because they have a broken leg,
1:13:24or in studies that put people on bed
1:13:25under bed rest to then see what their
1:13:27sleep is like, you know that they end up
1:13:29having a fragmentation of their sleep.
1:13:31So, they have more naps during the day.
1:13:34And they have more periods at night
1:13:35where they are up. Without adequate
1:13:37amounts of physical activity, there is a
1:13:39fragmentation of your sleep. You don't
1:13:40need a ton to then get better sleep, but
1:13:43then, where does that sensitivity to
1:13:45sort of drop off? You uh use running as
1:13:49an example because we can just define by
1:13:50time. You go regularly for a 20-minute
1:13:52run. Today, you go for a 4-hour run.
1:13:55You've now overloaded your system to a
1:13:57degree that might actually impair the
1:13:59amount of sleep that you get. There's a
1:14:00bidirectional relationship there, where
1:14:02a little bit of the stimulus aids in the
1:14:05depth of sleep, and too much can
1:14:06overwhelm it. Now, it doesn't
1:14:08automatically mean you will sleep
1:14:09poorly, but you have a higher risk of
1:14:10doing so. You might sleep like a rock.
1:14:13And then, there's temperature
1:14:14fluctuations. So, this is actually a
1:14:15newer area, but we live in a very
1:14:18insulated world, right? Even if we go
1:14:20outside, and there's not much variation
1:14:22in the temperature, we can layer
1:14:24ourselves so that our what we're being
1:14:26exposed to is very narrow.
1:14:29We also know that signals from a wider
1:14:32breadth of temperature within the day
1:14:34can might actually feed into that what's
1:14:36called the homeostat. These things that
1:14:37are collecting the signals of daytime
1:14:39usage that then help you sleep deeply.
1:14:41And then, a big important one is is
1:14:42light. So, light coming into your eye
1:14:45will communicate with receptors at the
1:14:47back of the eye that are not actually
1:14:49communicating with the visual cortex
1:14:50that help us see, but they are
1:14:52communicating with the master clock. And
1:14:54it we spend 90% of our time indoors now.
1:14:56So, if you we are not getting as much
1:14:59light as we used to. So, if you go
1:15:00outside, don't wear glasses.
1:15:02Get outside for at least a half an hour
1:15:04a day.
1:15:04Sunglasses, yeah. Sunglasses, yes, yeah,
1:15:05thanks.
1:15:07And then in the evening, you really just
1:15:09want to have whatever internal light
1:15:11environment is reflect what's going on
1:15:14outside. So, as the sun goes down, dim
1:15:16the lights. Uh and then also change the
1:15:18tone so you're getting less blue light
1:15:20cuz that is the the blue is the major
1:15:22signal to these retinal ganglion cells
1:15:24that says to the master clock, it's
1:15:26daytime. Yeah, speaking of which, I was
1:15:28listening to one of your talks and you
1:15:29talk about how the fact the fact that
1:15:32fat has photoreceptors or light
1:15:34receptors? How is it possible? Probably
1:15:37like one of the coolest discoveries of
1:15:38last year. But,
1:15:40those same receptors that are in the
1:15:42back of our eye, they're called opsin
1:15:44receptors. And all opsin receptors, and
1:15:47there are many, over 100, they have the
1:15:49ability to transduce a light signal into
1:15:51a nerve signal of some sort. So, Peter
1:15:54Light in Alberta, researcher, Professor
1:15:56Peter Light You have to be joking.
1:15:59I know, isn't that I mean he's that is
1:16:01that
1:16:01That's hilarious. Yeah, I I rolled right
1:16:04over that one. Peter Light who studies
1:16:06light
1:16:07Uh I don't think there was a name change
1:16:08there. I think that's his his given
1:16:09name.
1:16:11He did a screen to see are these
1:16:13receptors anywhere else in the body? And
1:16:15he's found them in fat tissue. Wow. And
1:16:17he's like, this has to be an artifact.
1:16:19This can't be
1:16:21this can't be a thing. Mhm. And so, he
1:16:23was able to test if light hitting fat
1:16:26tissue had an effect.
1:16:28Mhm.
1:16:28And he put his hand over the light and
1:16:31the signal went away. He took his hand
1:16:32away from the light and the signal
1:16:34reappeared.
1:16:35So, he thought, wow, this there's
1:16:37something here. And that made him
1:16:39investigate it more thoroughly. And what
1:16:41he found is that fat tissue
1:16:44has light receptors, the same ones in
1:16:46our eye, and they respond to light, and
1:16:48it makes the fat cells shrink, become
1:16:50less inflammatory, and they release a
1:16:53whole different uh
1:16:55profile of hormones, and
1:16:59we might actually have a light
1:17:00deficiency, not just for vitamin D, but
1:17:02for our regulation of fat. What we
1:17:06the conversation around fat's regulation
1:17:08is oftentimes fairly uninformed. We
1:17:11regulate fat tissue like we do
1:17:13temperature. It is a It is something
1:17:15that is not simply just a matter of did
1:17:17we, you know, the calories in, calories
1:17:19out. Your body is making a lot of
1:17:20adjustments. Now, those calories do
1:17:22matter, but it is making a ton of
1:17:23adjustments to those calories to then
1:17:26say, do I want that fat storage to
1:17:28shrink or to expand? And you And it's
1:17:30trying to regulate it similar to how a
1:17:32thermostat would regulate
1:17:34uh temperature in a home. You set it at
1:17:3572.
1:17:37This is super interesting. So, we can
1:17:39say that that the fat in our body works
1:17:40as a gland. Is that fair? Yeah, you
1:17:42could say that. It's a Yeah. But, is
1:17:44there logic to like the the
1:17:46hypothalamus, that um thermostat you've
1:17:49talked about fat trying to stay in a
1:17:51range, um that it goes up and down sort
1:17:53of regularly, um that it but it stays in
1:17:55that tight band? Like, this is so
1:17:57interesting to think of it as
1:17:59uh secreting hormones and being a gland.
1:18:02Walk us through the details of that.
1:18:03Yeah, so we now know that fat releases,
1:18:07I think over 50 different what are
1:18:08called adipokines, adipo fat kinds, like
1:18:12a cytokine, which is like a hormone. And
1:18:14so,
1:18:16um
1:18:17as triglycerides enter into our fat
1:18:20tissue,
1:18:21then leptin is produced continuously, so
1:18:25that flux of fats fat tissue fat leaving
1:18:28and entering the fat tissue
1:18:30will then cause leptin be to be made
1:18:32proportional to that.
1:18:35Then that signal goes into the blood,
1:18:36and there's various receptors for it.
1:18:38So, one in the brain in the brain stem,
1:18:40um you actually have them on your
1:18:41pancreas as well, but then in the
1:18:43hypothalamus.
1:18:44So, the brain is then detecting how much
1:18:47fat is circulating. Ah, you've lost a
1:18:50little bit of weight.
1:18:51Less fat storage, less leptin release.
1:18:54Be hungry. Get that fat stores back up.
1:18:57And you have neurons in the brain in the
1:18:59hypothalamus, and these and a lot of the
1:19:01hypothalamic centers will connect. So,
1:19:03you have these discrete groups of cells
1:19:05that communicate with one another that
1:19:07then affect things like motivation,
1:19:09temperature,
1:19:10uh even sleep.
1:19:12And so, there's a balance of different
1:19:15cell types within an area called the
1:19:16arcuate nucleus. And depending on the
1:19:19signals that are present will then
1:19:21initiate this cascading effects that
1:19:24will affect hunger, that will affect
1:19:26energy expenditure, all to try to keep
1:19:28your fat levels in a constant level.
1:19:31Now, it doesn't have to have to be the
1:19:32exact same level, but within a range.
1:19:34Now, why do we then get fatter? It's
1:19:36thought that this homeostat this fat
1:19:38homeostat is much better at defending
1:19:40weight loss than weight gain. Makes
1:19:42sense. Evolutionarily, it was probably
1:19:43much more of a concern.
1:19:45And there's also some thinking that
1:19:47those neurons actually get damaged by
1:19:50our environment our internal environment
1:19:52from the types of foods that we eat and
1:19:54challenges to them from even things like
1:19:56poor sleep.
1:19:57So,
1:19:59nutrient inadequacies, things like that,
1:20:00all these things can affect the health
1:20:02of that tissue. And it's one of the
1:20:03reasons why I am favorable towards a
1:20:05ketogenic diet because
1:20:07beta-hydroxybutyrate
1:20:09is one of the ketones, and it can cause
1:20:11those those tissues within the brain to
1:20:14actually start to remodel and
1:20:15regenerate. Mhm. And so, somebody that
1:20:17has diet-induced obesity,
1:20:19they they have a very hard time losing
1:20:21weight because even if they lose weight,
1:20:22their body wants to get back to that set
1:20:24point.
1:20:25And if you look at people that are on a
1:20:26ketogenic diet, for a lot of them, they
1:20:28just start eating to satiety, they eat
1:20:29normally, and yet they they the weight
1:20:32comes off naturally.
1:20:34Now, if there's no guarantee that that
1:20:35weight will stay off, but I think you
1:20:37put yourself in a much better position.
1:20:39You know, if you lose weight on
1:20:40other ways, not all other ways, but
1:20:42other ways,
1:20:43if you look at somebody's physiology
1:20:44once they're 50 lbs lighter, for a lot
1:20:46of people, it looks like their body's
1:20:49desperately trying to get back up in
1:20:50weight. Their brain will stay active
1:20:53seeking food. So, if you do fMRI and
1:20:55there's food on the table, they will
1:20:56stay seeking even even if they're full,
1:20:59right? Everything is engineered all the
1:21:01different processes are engineered to
1:21:03get you back up to that weight. What are
1:21:04some of those processes? That's so
1:21:06interesting. Like So, I I've had a lot
1:21:08of these symptoms. Um so, I used to be
1:21:1060 lbs heavier. I lost that, and I did
1:21:12it so stupidly you can't imagine. I did
1:21:15it in a rapid starvation diet and just
1:21:17insane amounts of cardio. So, my
1:21:19calories were probably between 1,200 and
1:21:211,500 a day.
1:21:24As much as I could make it just pure
1:21:25protein as possible. I was inflamed.
1:21:29It was crazy. My joints hurt, my knees,
1:21:31my wrists, my elbows. I mean, it was
1:21:33gnarly. But, unfortunately, I wasn't
1:21:36thinking, "Hey, listen to your body." I
1:21:37was just thinking, "You're getting
1:21:39leaner, you're getting leaner, you're
1:21:40getting leaner." But, you want to talk
1:21:41about seeking food at all times? Like
1:21:43all I could think about was when my next
1:21:46meal was. But, I never thought of that
1:21:48as like anything other than well, your
1:21:49calories are crazy low. But, what are
1:21:51the mechanisms that like trap people?
1:21:53Cuz there are some people who will swear
1:21:55that they can't, no matter what, they
1:21:57can't lose weight. And I've always if
1:21:59I'm honest, I've always really
1:22:00discounted the well, it makes me
1:22:02hungrier. Yeah.
1:22:04So, interestingly,
1:22:06a ketogenic diet, I'm very interested in
1:22:09the mechanisms by which it might be
1:22:10working. And And there, the ketone
1:22:12beta-hydroxybutyrate might actually be
1:22:14turning on genes that help to reset
1:22:17those tissues that are controlling body
1:22:19fat, effectively lowering your set point
1:22:21to a place that's healthier. That's a
1:22:23possibility. The other diet that can do
1:22:25that is very low energy diets that
1:22:27actually have very low energy. People
1:22:29say that's starvation. Low calorie. Low
1:22:30calorie. Yeah, cuz you don't have to
1:22:33actually be on a ketogenic diet to
1:22:35produce ketones. If you're in a state of
1:22:37fasting or in a hypocaloric intake, then
1:22:40you're going to produce ketones, too.
1:22:42So, give me the order in which the body
1:22:44burns calories and and include alcohol
1:22:47as
1:22:49the fourth macro, which some people will
1:22:51say. Yes. So, preferentially the body
1:22:55will burn glucose
1:22:57and that is thought because the brain is
1:23:00a very very glucose hungry. It is only
1:23:034% of our body weight and yet it
1:23:05consumes 25% of the calories we eat.
1:23:08It's a very metabolic metabolically
1:23:10active tissue. Do macros always go in
1:23:12order? So, here's what I heard, this
1:23:14could be total
1:23:15Number one, that if there's alcohol in
1:23:17the system, it will be metabolized
1:23:18first, followed by glucose. It depend
1:23:21Yeah, so actually it depends on your
1:23:23relative status. What
1:23:26type of macros have you been eating over
1:23:28the last couple of weeks? And then what
1:23:30enzymes have been generated in response
1:23:31to that exposure?
1:23:33Okay, so it's not like there's some set
1:23:34it's always going to burn them in this
1:23:36order. See, most studies
1:23:39are always looking at what is under this
1:23:41normal condition, which is our standard
1:23:43diet. It's not looking at under all
1:23:45conditions and under things like fasting
1:23:48or what might be evolutionarily more
1:23:50regular in terms of like you know, not
1:23:52having breakfast until maybe noon. We
1:23:55have what's called metabolic
1:23:56flexibility, which is thought to be
1:23:58something that is a good state to try to
1:23:59achieve, which means that you can
1:24:00readily burn different types of fuel
1:24:02sources. So,
1:24:04you know, it's it's extraordinarily
1:24:06complex. People give simple explanations
1:24:09for it, but
1:24:10you know, this is actually one of the
1:24:11biggest public health needs in our world
1:24:14because the amount of
1:24:17comorbidities that associate with
1:24:18obesity,
1:24:19it it will bankrupt our society. You
1:24:22know, you think of weight, you think of
1:24:23food, but it's very possible that even
1:24:27things like light might be having a a
1:24:30very large input here. And like like
1:24:32sunlight even, right? We're talking
1:24:34about that. So, if fat is a regulated
1:24:36tissue
1:24:38and we are living fully clothed,
1:24:40um I wouldn't say that there's any
1:24:42silver bullet, but there's a lot of
1:24:44different inputs. And so, I think
1:24:45overall one sort of perspective of mine
1:24:47is to try to live more naturally, but in
1:24:49a way that is actually going to work
1:24:51within
1:24:52the modern world. One thing you said
1:24:54that I found so interesting is, all
1:24:57right, fat's a regulated tissue. It is
1:25:01um creating all these hormones. It's
1:25:03responding to the environment. It
1:25:04actually has light sensitivity, which
1:25:06still freaks me out.
1:25:07And hey, by the way, boys and girls,
1:25:09you're staying inside all day. You're
1:25:11closed up when you go outside. Guess
1:25:13what signal you're giving your body.
1:25:15It's wintertime. Guess what the body
1:25:16does in winter. It stores more fat.
1:25:18Yeah.
1:25:19I wanted to literally stop my research
1:25:21at that point, strip, and run outside
1:25:23and just to like shred up a little bit.
1:25:25Yeah.
1:25:25Uh of course, it's not going to work
1:25:26quite like that.
1:25:28Yeah. So, you've got fat as a gland, as
1:25:30a regulated tissue. Um do I understand
1:25:33it correctly to say that it's it's
1:25:36breaking something. As you get obese,
1:25:38you're more likely to get more obese,
1:25:40and there's something that breaks that
1:25:41cuz like when you look at people, their
1:25:43set point is riding with them as they're
1:25:45getting heavier and heavier, which is
1:25:47already terrifying. And then it's also
1:25:50secreting things that make you more
1:25:52hungry, that delay your um
1:25:55where you're still searching for food
1:25:56longer.
1:25:58Um
1:25:59One, is all of that true? Like did I
1:26:02just explain that accurately? Yes, but
1:26:04we're missing a very important part to
1:26:06the model,
1:26:07which is that
1:26:09it's not the only thing that explains
1:26:12our food seeking behavior.
1:26:15We also will eat food because it tastes
1:26:17good, right? Independent of our hunger,
1:26:20right? We know that where for instance,
1:26:23somebody, you know, you eat a full meal
1:26:25and you're and you're full.
1:26:27But your appetite is renewed when the
1:26:29dessert cart is brought over and you're
1:26:31like, oh, I could eat that. Yeah, let's
1:26:32get four of those.
1:26:34That is another driver of food intake
1:26:37and we live in an environment that is
1:26:41really designed for overconsumption.
1:26:44So it it's very easy to overeat in our
1:26:48world because the palatability of food
1:26:50is one that will then promote
1:26:52overeating.
1:26:53And it the design of food, processed
1:26:55foods, it also will make you feel less
1:26:58full per calorie. So there's a delay
1:27:00before you even feel fullness.
1:27:01All right, we got to talk about that cuz
1:27:02you showed a visual in one of your
1:27:04talks. It was so powerful and I've been
1:27:06in this a long time, but for some reason
1:27:07that visual really hit me. But when you
1:27:09showed the raspberry tart, which is like
1:27:12a little raspberry pie, it looks so
1:27:13innocent and delicious. And then you
1:27:15showed the equivalent amount of calories
1:27:18in bowls of raspberries. It was like
1:27:20seven or eight bowls of raspberries. It
1:27:22was crazy that just like That actually
1:27:24is a lot of work from Barbara Rolls and
1:27:27her book Volumetrics, which is it is
1:27:29stunning when we think about the how we
1:27:31condense
1:27:33calories into modern food products.
1:27:36And that's what I want to talk about.
1:27:37When people say processed food, what
1:27:38they're talking about is making it
1:27:39hyperpalatable so I want to overeat
1:27:41anyway. And then secondarily, it it has
1:27:44a lot of calories per physical volume.
1:27:47Yes.
1:27:48So our central nervous system
1:27:50preferences are designed to detect and
1:27:52prefer caloric density.
1:27:55So it is different than eating the the
1:27:57tart versus the raspberries, right? We
1:28:01have now the ability to design food to
1:28:04make us want to seek it. It's a very
1:28:06disadvantage environment. But the good
1:28:08news is that eating raspberries is also
1:28:11perfectly satisfying, but the more of
1:28:13that highly palatable, calorically dense
1:28:15food that you eat, the more that it'll
1:28:17drive food seeking behavior.
1:28:19So, there is a behavioral element to
1:28:20this. How it messes with your neural
1:28:22circuitry.
1:28:23going on mechanistically though? So, is
1:28:25it is it through that mechanism that
1:28:27it's um it triggers the release of
1:28:29ghrelin instead of leptin? Like There's
1:28:31so many different molecules that are at
1:28:33play.
1:28:34Metabolically, you're right. Ghrelin is
1:28:36released from what are called oxyntic
1:28:38cells within the gut. And it's very low
1:28:41after a meal, and it'll rise. And as
1:28:43it's rising between your meals, it makes
1:28:44you hungry. Mhm. It's the only
1:28:46gut-derived peptide that actually
1:28:47promotes feeding versus fullness. Uh
1:28:49leptin is this what's called a tonic
1:28:52signal. It's sort of operating in the
1:28:53background. We call it a fullness
1:28:55signal. It's not quite It's actually
1:28:57setting the tone of how full you'll even
1:29:00be from a meal. So, if you have low
1:29:01leptin, you'll naturally be less
1:29:03sensitive to the fullness signals of a
1:29:05meal. So, satiety and long-term fat
1:29:07regulation will work together. Mhm.
1:29:10Now, independent of that, you have this
1:29:12brain circuitry that's going on that can
1:29:14Think of it almost like addiction to a
1:29:15rewarding signal.
1:29:17The more exposure you get to it, Mhm.
1:29:20that will then drive seeking food
1:29:23seeking behavior. So, you're not really
1:29:24hungry, and yet you're craving. A lot of
1:29:26people experience this in the afternoon.
1:29:27You're bored, and you're like, I just
1:29:29want to eat something.
1:29:32Yeah.
1:29:32Right? We know it in our lives. We we
1:29:34can detect it instantaneously. The
1:29:36easy example is when you bring something
1:29:38that is very calorically dense at the
1:29:40end of a meal, and you're full, but you
1:29:42now want to eat more. It is not the
1:29:44homeostat that is evaluating calories
1:29:47and fullness that's saying, "Oh, you
1:29:48should eat more." It is pleasure Mhm.
1:29:51and the pleasure that derives from
1:29:53caloric density.
1:29:55Well, now let's really freak people out.
1:29:57Talk to me about the impact on um
1:30:00willpower may be a cheesy way to say it,
1:30:02but a decision-making if I slept poorly.
1:30:06Yeah. What we see is that not only do
1:30:08hormones change in response to getting
1:30:10inadequate sleep,
1:30:12but our brain changes, too. So, there's
1:30:14something called the neuro competitive
1:30:15model of decision making, which means
1:30:17that if you look at that thing that
1:30:20tastes delicious,
1:30:22this reward part of your brain will
1:30:24light up first. It'll It'll respond to
1:30:27it before the executive control
1:30:29self-control area kicks in that says,
1:30:32"Yeah, you might love how that tastes,
1:30:34but it's not good for you."
1:30:36Right? So, you can see that competition
1:30:39taking place. It happens all the time.
1:30:40That process of looking at the the donut
1:30:44that you love, but ordinarily don't want
1:30:46to eat,
1:30:47then that is biased towards eat this now
1:30:51and ends up creating a behavior we call
1:30:53effort discounting. You then are this
1:30:55much less likely to work at this thing
1:30:57that ordinarily you totally say, "I care
1:30:59about this, so I'm going to make an
1:31:00effort to just not have donuts in my
1:31:01life." And you're like, "Okay, you know,
1:31:03eff it." Or like, "Tomorrow. I'll just
1:31:05have it now." And that can actually
1:31:07translate to like, whether it's going to
1:31:08the gym or the food that you eat. And
1:31:10people live in that in that state where
1:31:13I care 95% of the day I'm thinking about
1:31:15eating well, and in that moment of
1:31:18hunger and potentially compared with
1:31:20sleep loss, you make a decision that
1:31:22you're then disappointed in yourself in.
1:31:24And you've talked pretty powerfully
1:31:25about like, how much time do you have to
1:31:28lose a night before you start to see
1:31:29some of this declination?
1:31:31Yeah, what I found is that reliably,
1:31:35people that miss out an hour or two of
1:31:36sleep have impairments in vigilance, as
1:31:39you'd imagine. So, they're less
1:31:40objectively alert the next day, and they
1:31:43feel sleepier. So, subjective alertness
1:31:45is impaired, too.
1:31:47And interestingly, independently, so
1:31:48I'll tell you about the study cuz it's
1:31:49pretty cool. I had people come in and
1:31:51what I cared about was what they ate.
1:31:53So, we created a baseline and they had,
1:31:54by the way, eight different choices that
1:31:56ranged from like, clearly unhealthy
1:31:59gummy bears to, you know, ostensibly
1:32:02healthy, right? So, things like
1:32:05you know, just cut apple slices or
1:32:07something.
1:32:08And
1:32:09what's another criticism I've had of
1:32:10previous research is that the decisions
1:32:12of the healthfulness of the food were
1:32:13made by the investigators, but everybody
1:32:15has their own opinion about food.
1:32:17Yeah, yeah. Right? If you think there's
1:32:18four different types of decisions.
1:32:20There's I like it and it's healthy,
1:32:22easy.
1:32:23Right? I don't like it and it's not
1:32:25healthy, easy.
1:32:26The two in the middle are the most
1:32:28interesting.
1:32:29It's really healthy and I don't really
1:32:30like it, which is sort of characteristic
1:32:32of health choices that we have to make
1:32:33sometimes. And the more most interesting
1:32:35one is I love it and it's totally not
1:32:38healthy.
1:32:39Right? How do people respond to food
1:32:41that they recognize as or they think
1:32:43this isn't good for me, but I love this?
1:32:45And what we saw is that when people were
1:32:48subjectively sleepy,
1:32:50they were much more likely to eat foods
1:32:52that they rated as high like low health.
1:32:55So, they were defecting from their own
1:32:56personal health standards, you could
1:32:57say. And now, just to compound things,
1:33:00you've got All right, you miss an hour
1:33:01or two on sleep and now all of the
1:33:03sudden you're leaning towards the things
1:33:05that you have high like low health.
1:33:06Yeah. But also losing sleep makes you
1:33:09look at a blood level like a
1:33:11pre-diabetic. Mhm. And so, you get this
1:33:13double whammy. Walk us through that.
1:33:15Like what's going on metabolically um
1:33:18when you don't get enough sleep?
1:33:20Yes, so that is still being
1:33:23investigated, but it was one of the very
1:33:24first things that was discovered in
1:33:26response to sleep loss. So, they did
1:33:28sleep sleep deprivation studies and
1:33:30found that healthy young subjects ended
1:33:32up basically looking diabetic after
1:33:36either one night of total sleep
1:33:37deprivation or a couple nights of
1:33:38partial sleep restriction, where you're
1:33:40not getting as much sleep as your body
1:33:42wants.
1:33:43What's going on there? So, then that
1:33:44stimulated it some more investigation
1:33:46into that. Now, maybe that is because of
1:33:49altered circadian timing. It was hard to
1:33:51parse that because we know melatonin, a
1:33:53darkness hormone,
1:33:55will actually cause insulin resistance.
1:33:58You want it because over the course of
1:33:59the night, you don't want insulin taking
1:34:02blood glucose out of the bloodstream and
1:34:04storing it cuz then you'd go
1:34:05hypoglycemic and you'd wake up.
1:34:07So rather, the body it's a it's a this
1:34:10beautiful dance. When darkness falls,
1:34:13melatonin is released. Melatonin travels
1:34:16to the pancreas and it prevents insulin
1:34:17from being released and you keep blood
1:34:19glucose levels stable at the across the
1:34:21night.
1:34:22So I think when some people that are
1:34:24waking up in the morning and they're
1:34:25looking diabetic, they might still have
1:34:27high levels of melatonin at night uh
1:34:30from the night. We also see that our fat
1:34:32tissue simply becomes less sensitive to
1:34:35the effects of of insulin. And so it's
1:34:38just not reading the signal of insulin
1:34:40and helping it to store glucose as well.
1:34:42And so therefore, blood glucose levels
1:34:44elevate and then, you know, whether or
1:34:47not that is pathogenic, like does that
1:34:49cause diabetes? Well, you can then look
1:34:52at epidemiological research and shows
1:34:54that people that chronically get less
1:34:55sleep are much more likely to develop
1:34:57diabetes.
1:34:58So you have to look at acutely what's a
1:35:00mechanism and then epidemiologically,
1:35:02what happens when people generally do
1:35:04this and then you have to just try to
1:35:05figure out what's going on in between,
1:35:07but clearly there's an issue going on
1:35:10there and there's no part of the body
1:35:12that goes untouched when we don't sleep
1:35:14get the sleep that we need. The only
1:35:16difference between excitement and fear
1:35:18is what your brain says. And the problem
1:35:20is if you have a habit of worrying,
1:35:23guess what you're going to tell yourself
1:35:25is going on.
1:35:26That you're that you're like freaking
1:35:28out. That you're not excited, that
1:35:29something must be wrong. Oh gosh, why
1:35:31would you say something's wrong? Cuz you
1:35:32got a habit of saying that all the time.

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