Trump back in court as accounting expert testifies — Transcript

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1. 0:00So right
2. 0:00now, former President
3. 0:01Trump is inside of a New York courthouse
4. 0:03and he is watching this.
5. 0:04$250 million civil fraud trial
6. 0:07that is threatening his business empire.
7. 0:09Trump and his adult sons,
8. 0:10along with other Trump.
9. 0:11Org executives,
10. 0:13are accused
11. 0:13of inflating financial statements
12. 0:15to obtain favorable loans
13. 0:16and insurance deals.
14. 0:17Now Trump is
15. 0:18set to take the witness
16. 0:19stand next week
17. 0:20as the final defense witness.
18. 0:22Let's take you live outside
19. 0:23the courthouse with CNN's Kara Scannell.
20. 0:25So, Kara, we've seen the former
21. 0:26president make multiple public statements
22. 0:29opining on how the trial is going.
23. 0:31How have things played out so far?
24. 0:37Well, Boris
25. 0:37and Brianna, so far, they have had, what,
26. 0:39their final expert witness testifying.
27. 0:41This is an accounting professor from NYU,
28. 0:44and he is given the Trump side
29. 0:46their strongest, clearest defense
30. 0:48so far from an expert witness.
31. 0:50What he is testifying to today is that
32. 0:52he said he examined
33. 0:53these financial statements
34. 0:54that are at the heart of this case.
35. 0:55So the accusations,
36. 0:56they inflated the value
37. 0:57of properties on them
38. 0:58and that use that to get better terms
39. 1:00on loans and insurance.
40. 1:02While he testified unequivocally
41. 1:04that there is no evidence whatsoever
42. 1:06of accounting fraud.
43. 1:07He said,
44. 1:08my analysis shows
45. 1:09the financial statements
46. 1:10for all of the years
47. 1:11were not materially misstated.
48. 1:13And the judge
49. 1:14intervened here and asked him,
50. 1:16are you saying that
51. 1:16the attorney general's
52. 1:17complaint has no merit?
53. 1:18He said, that is absolutely my opinion.
54. 1:21He went on to say that
55. 1:22there are some errors in the report
56. 1:24in the financial statements,
57. 1:25but he said that
58. 1:26those are not necessarily fraud.
59. 1:28And he said that
60. 1:29that is common
61. 1:30when they are
62. 1:31these unaudited
63. 1:32financial statements that are used by
64. 1:33sophistic aided lenders.
65. 1:35So really giving the Trumps
66. 1:36had their strongest defense.
67. 1:37And we heard from the former president
68. 1:39when he is leaving at one of the break,
69. 1:40and he praised that expert accounting.
70. 1:43Take a listen.
71. 1:45And this is a highly respected man.
72. 1:48I don't know him,
73. 1:50but he is a expert witness
74. 1:53and he found no fraud whatsoever.
75. 1:57We found no accounting fraud whatsoever.
76. 2:01And like everyone else, he said,
77. 2:03what are we doing here?
78. 2:10Now, the judge has already found
79. 2:11that the financial statements
80. 2:12in this case are fraudulent
81. 2:14and found that Trump had committed
82. 2:15repeated and persistent fraud.
83. 2:17But much of Trump's defense
84. 2:18is also playing toward the appeals court
85. 2:20because they have acknowledged
86. 2:22that they accept
87. 2:22that the judge is probably going
88. 2:23to rule against them
89. 2:24in the civil fraud trial.
90. 2:25But they are making their case
91. 2:27and creating a record
92. 2:28so it can be heard by an appeals court.
93. 2:30And on that note,
94. 2:31we did learn some news today.
95. 2:32The appeals court in New York
96. 2:34is agreeing to continue a stay.
97. 2:36That is,
98. 2:37they're not going
99. 2:38to allow the dissolution
100. 2:39of Trump's businesses
101. 2:40until this trial
102. 2:41and the appeal is wrapped up.
103. 2:43So that went in favor of Trump today.
104. 2:45Now, the attorney general's office
105. 2:47doubling down on their statements,
106. 2:48their commitment
107. 2:49that Trump has committed fraud.
108. 2:50In a response
109. 2:51to Trump's comments
110. 2:52that New York Attorney General
111. 2:53Letitia James tweeted
112. 2:54that they have already proven
113. 2:56a massive scale of fraud
114. 2:57that Trump has committed.
115. 2:58And this case, as you say,
116. 3:00will continue with Trump
117. 3:01being on the stand
118. 3:02next week
119. 3:02as the final witness in their defense.
120. 3:05Force Brianna.
121. 3:06All right.
122. 3:06Kara Scannell
123. 3:07live outside of the courthouse there.
124. 3:08Thank you for that report.
125. 3:10Let's talk
126. 3:10more about this
127. 3:11now with CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen.
128. 3:14All right,
129. 3:14Norm starting
130. 3:15just with this expert testimony
131. 3:17that you heard there, what is your
132. 3:21initial tweet this will have?
133. 3:22Well, as we know, experts
134. 3:25are sometimes available for hire.
135. 3:29Mr.
136. 3:29Barr Todd
137. 3:31is an academic who works in this field,
138. 3:35but there has been substantial testimony
139. 3:38that the
140. 3:40financial statements are fraudulent.
141. 3:43So to attempt to justify them defies
142. 3:48the witnesses who've testified
143. 3:49they're fraudulent.
144. 3:51The experts for the state,
145. 3:55the judge's own finding,
146. 3:57where he's already granted
147. 3:58partial summary judgment of fraud.
148. 4:00And if I may say so, common sense.
149. 4:02How can you say that
150. 4:04an apartment
151. 4:05that is a little more than 10,000
152. 4:08square feet is 30,000 square feet?
153. 4:10I don't care
154. 4:11how many professors come in,
155. 4:13are they going to put a math professor
156. 4:15on next
157. 4:16to say that 30,010 thousand are equal.
158. 4:20So I think the weight of the evidence is
159. 4:24that there were material misstatements of
160. 4:27not just the apartment
161. 4:29but 40 Wall Street,
162. 4:30seven springs, Mar a Lago.
163. 4:32This case is going to be lost
164. 4:34by Donald Trump.
165. 4:35The battle will be on appeal.
166. 4:37And the reason Trump's
167. 4:38in court today,
168. 4:39the 12 punch,
169. 4:40is he's going to attempt to back up
170. 4:42what Professor Barton has said
171. 4:44to create that appellate record.
172. 4:46Well, Trump actually
173. 4:47said something
174. 4:47about an appellate court
175. 4:48decision that he claims
176. 4:50judge anger on is ignoring.
177. 4:52I think we might have that clip.
178. 4:54Let's play it
179. 4:57The judge, as you
180. 4:57know, was rebuked in that
181. 5:00he was overturned
182. 5:02by the appellate division
183. 5:03of the New York State Supreme Court.
184. 5:06Which is a higher court,
185. 5:07much higher court
186. 5:08than where we are right now.
187. 5:09The judge refused to acknowledge it.
188. 5:12This case would be over
189. 5:14because that was about
190. 5:1590% of the case
191. 5:16having to do with statute of limitations.
192. 5:19This case should be over.
193. 5:22Norm was shaking his head as that cloud.
194. 5:25But look, he's been Trump
195. 5:27and his lawyers have been back and forth
196. 5:30to the appellate courts
197. 5:31over and over again
198. 5:32since that
199. 5:33decision on statute of limitations
200. 5:35came down.
201. 5:36If the appellate courts
202. 5:37thought that they were being defied,
203. 5:39they would have shut the case down.
204. 5:41They have declined to do that.
205. 5:43Trump is mixing apples and oranges.
206. 5:45Yes,
207. 5:45There was a statute of limitations issue
208. 5:48that paired the case back.
209. 5:50As you know,
210. 5:51Ivanka Trump,
211. 5:52as a result is out of the case,
212. 5:54but it doesn't invalidate the attorney
213. 5:58general's entire case, as is so often
214. 6:01with the former president.
215. 6:03He is
216. 6:05not exactly 100%
217. 6:08candid and truthful in
218. 6:10how he's describing
219. 6:11legal events,
220. 6:12seeing things
221. 6:13perhaps the way that he wants
222. 6:14to see them. Exactly. Exactly. There.
223. 6:17And so let's talk about the gag order
224. 6:19that is in place here.
225. 6:20I think it's really worth mentioning.
226. 6:22So he cannot
227. 6:24comment about the court staff.
228. 6:25He got in trouble for that before.
229. 6:27There are things he can still talk about,
230. 6:29the judge, the AG witness testimony,
231. 6:31a whole lot more.
232. 6:32What's interesting here
233. 6:33is that
234. 6:33it seems that
235. 6:34having been fined a couple of times,
236. 6:36he is now staying within these boundaries
237. 6:40because they have been enforced.
238. 6:42And I wonder if you think that is going
239. 6:43to be a roadmap
240. 6:45for judges in other cases,
241. 6:47specifically the federal
242. 6:48election subversion case here in D.C.?
243. 6:50I do, Brianna.
244. 6:51We've followed together
245. 6:52the vicissitudes of the state gag order
246. 6:56and the federal gag
247. 6:57order on again, off again.
248. 6:59The state courts.
249. 7:01And I think this is a preview of
250. 7:02what's going to happen
251. 7:03with the federal gag order here in D.C.
252. 7:05for the coming March trial.
253. 7:07The state courts have now turned that gag
254. 7:09order back on.
255. 7:10And today, Trump was brought to heel.
256. 7:14He had a press availability
257. 7:15before the court.
258. 7:17No attacks on judicial staff.
259. 7:20He had one after he appeared in court.
260. 7:23Again, no attacks
261. 7:24and no attacks in court.
262. 7:26So it shows that he can be controlled.
263. 7:29He is a rational actor
264. 7:31and will that hold.
265. 7:34Will he make a strategic choice to
266. 7:38politically inflame his base
267. 7:40by violating the gag order
268. 7:42and having some drama?
269. 7:43He may do it,
270. 7:44but if he does it,
271. 7:45today's compliance shows
272. 7:47that will be intentional.
273. 7:49And these gag orders are consistent
274. 7:51with the First Amendment
275. 7:52as the New York appellate courts that Mr.
276. 7:56Trump celebrated
277. 7:58have found now.
278. 8:01So, Norman,
279. 8:02we got some
280. 8:03breaking news moments
281. 8:04before we went on the air about Trump's
282. 8:07revived effort
283. 8:08to dismiss the federal election
284. 8:11subversion case.
285. 8:12Essentially His team is appealing
286. 8:15a decision
287. 8:16that rejected
288. 8:18his effort to dismiss the case
289. 8:19on certain grounds.
290. 8:20Walk us through what this means
291. 8:22for the broader case.
292. 8:23Unlike some of the arguments
293. 8:24we just heard,
294. 8:25this is not frivolous or Made-Up.
295. 8:28There's a serious legal question here,
296. 8:30one that Trump has lost
297. 8:31and that he probably will lose again
298. 8:34on appeal.
299. 8:36This is
300. 8:36something I
301. 8:37worked on
302. 8:37when I was in the White House
303. 8:40counsel's office.
304. 8:41Presidents cannot inform
305. 8:43solely be
306. 8:43the subject of legal proceeding.
307. 8:45It's called presidential immunity.
308. 8:47It typically applies in the civil case.
309. 8:50Trump tried
310. 8:51in his federal prosecution
311. 8:53for alleged election
312. 8:54overthrow here in D.C.
313. 8:56to take that civil rule
314. 8:58and apply it in a criminal case
315. 9:00and say, Hey, Jack Smith
316. 9:02I'm the president.
317. 9:03You can't prosecute me.
318. 9:05Judge Chad can said no.
319. 9:07That's a maniacal idea.
320. 9:10No one is above the law.
321. 9:12If you break the law, you're a president,
322. 9:13you get to be prosecuted.
323. 9:15Now, he's appealing that to the D.C.
324. 9:17Circuit.
325. 9:18He's going to try to get a stay.
326. 9:20There will be a big fight about it.
327. 9:22But fundamentally,
328. 9:23I think Judge Chuck was right.
329. 9:25I've written about this, including
330. 9:26for CNN.
331. 9:27It's inimical
332. 9:29to American law
333. 9:30that there would be one person
334. 9:32in our country who is never able
335. 9:35to be held accountable
336. 9:37for violating criminal laws
337. 9:39simply because their president
338. 9:41he also lost an important
339. 9:43immunity decision in the civil context.
340. 9:46But in criminal, it's
341. 9:47even more important.
342. 9:48He'll fail.
343. 9:49But it's a real issue.
344. 9:50Is going to occasion a lot of attention.
345. 9:52There'll be a big fight over
346. 9:54whether the whole thing should be stayed.
347. 9:56So it's something else
348. 9:57we'll be watching together
349. 9:59in the weeks ahead. Yeah, definitely.
350. 10:01And we hope you'll come back
351. 10:02to break down the decision once
352. 10:04it's made for my son.
353. 10:05Thanks so much for the analysis.
354. 10:06Thank you. Of course.