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[TRIAL TRANSCRIPT PART 65] - Darlie Routier Trial - Darlie Routier’s Testimony Part 3 — Transcript

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0:00Hello and welcome to the Beachhouse 34
0:02podcast. I'm your host Christine Worth.
0:05A warm welcome to all the new
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0:18and it helps the channel so so much.
0:21If you are here, you know that I've
0:24covered the Darlie Routier trial
0:26transcripts from the very beginning and
0:28we are now on part three of Darlie
0:30Routier's testimony where the
0:32prosecution begins to question Darlie
0:34about her statements to the police.
0:37What was said or not said in the 911
0:39call and more. So, let's continue with
0:43part three of Darlie Routier's
0:46testimony.
0:48And the cross-examination is begun by
0:50Mr. Toby Shook.
0:53Mrs. Routier, you started that business,
0:56Testnec, with your husband. Is that
0:58right?
0:59Yes, sir. Okay. And you worked there
1:02alongside him through the years when
1:04y'all were building it up, didn't you?
1:07Pretty much so, yes.
1:09Okay. I mean, it wasn't his operation.
1:12You took equal part in that company and
1:14built it up with him, didn't you?
1:17Sure.
1:18And you ran, in fact, I think your main
1:21primary job in that was running the
1:23books. Is that right?
1:25Pretty much to a certain degree. I mean,
1:27we had a CPA, but the daily routine, you
1:30know, the daily work.
1:32You would keep up with that. And as far
1:34as accounts go and who owed you money
1:37and things like that, more or less the
1:39business operation.
1:40Yes, sir.
1:41You also helped make some of the
1:43computer parts or whatever you did
1:45there, the circuit boards. Yeah, I
1:48didn't know a whole lot about it, but I
1:51tried to help out wherever I could,
1:52wherever they needed me.
1:55And even when you quit working there as
1:57much, you still went up there on a
1:59weekly basis, did you not? Yeah, I would
2:02stop in.
2:04Okay. And you still helped with the
2:06books if they needed it.
2:08Well, at that time, I usually brought
2:10the books home, but yeah, I mean, I did
2:13the books, but I did it at home.
2:15You would work at home with the
2:17business. Yes, sir. And every day you
2:20discussed what was going on with the
2:21business with your husband, did you not?
2:24Pretty much.
2:25And the decisions made in the business,
2:27those were made by Darren and yourself?
2:30At that part, I would have to say more
2:32of it was Darren than me. But I mean, I
2:35knew about it.
2:36You certainly had input in it, didn't
2:39you? Sometimes. That is why you
2:42discussed that even on the night of the
2:445th, y'all were talking about the
2:45business. Yes, sir. Okay. And you did
2:49all this while you were running the
2:51home, also? Yes, sir.
2:54And as far as the home goes, you were
2:56the one that decided decorating the
2:58home, making purchases for the home, how
3:00it looked and that kind of thing, did
3:02you not?
3:03Well, most of it, yes.
3:06And you would keep the house up and keep
3:07it clean and that kind of thing. Yeah, I
3:10had help. When did you start getting
3:12help with the house?
3:15Well, actually, I had had a maid service
3:17for quite some time.
3:19When did that start? I don't have any
3:21exact date for you. I can say
3:23approximately 2 years ago. Okay. And
3:27would they come in every week? Yes, sir.
3:29Okay. And then, of course, the week of
3:31the
3:32You had Babcia come in for a couple of
3:35days. Yeah, if I can explain. The people
3:39that I was having clean, they had
3:40changed to a bunch of different people
3:42and they weren't doing as good of a job
3:44as what they normally would do. And so,
3:47I had let them go and I had another lady
3:49come in and clean and she was very nice,
3:52but every time she cleaned, she ended up
3:54breaking something and it ended up
3:56costing me more money to have her clean
3:58than what it was what she was breaking.
4:02So, you were having people then coming
4:04in for the last 2 years helping you
4:06clean. Yes, sir.
4:08You also, did you have some of these
4:11teenage girls help you watch over the
4:13kids?
4:14Well, I wouldn't necessarily say watch
4:17over the kids. I think that they
4:19I think that was kind of an excuse that
4:22they used to be in the house. Okay. I
4:25mean, they really didn't want to say
4:27that they were coming over to be with,
4:29you know, a five and six-year-old. So,
4:31let me ask you. You said that Darren
4:33fixed the gate that Wednesday night.
4:36Yes, sir, he did. Did you go try the
4:39gate out yourself? No, I didn't. Are you
4:42telling this jury then that the gate was
4:45swinging freely?
4:46I don't know if it was swinging or not.
4:48All I know is Darren told me that he
4:50fixed it.
4:51The gate was hanging on hinges by
4:54shoestrings and coat hangers and things
4:56like
4:57shoestrings. Yeah, have you seen the
4:59photographs? No, sir.
5:01Had you all been making some repairs to
5:03that gate? Yes, sir.
5:05Put some new poles in. My husband, I
5:09think did. I'm not too sure about that.
5:11Okay.
5:12Do you know when those poles were put
5:14in? No, sir, I couldn't tell you that.
5:17Let me show you 13-D, 13-C.
5:22Can you see that gate there? Yes, sir.
5:24Do you see the strings attached from the
5:27poles to the gate?
5:29Yes, on that one I do. I see it. Okay. I
5:33think, I mean, I don't know if it's a
5:34shoestring, but it looks like some type
5:36of string.
5:37Some type of string? Yes, sir. The same
5:40thing in this photograph? Yes, sir.
5:43Okay, but the gate was dragging. Is that
5:45was that the problem?
5:47Yeah, the bottom of the gate. Okay. And
5:50you did I don't know anything about the
5:53poles, really. I just know about the
5:55gate.
5:56Did you go out that gate on the date of
5:59the 5th?
6:00Did I go out the gate? Yes.
6:03No, sir, I did not. You were home all
6:05day, weren't you? Yes, sir, I was.
6:08Had you been having trouble getting
6:10through that gate? Yes, sir, we had.
6:13Okay. Would you have to actually what?
6:16Lift the gate up and try to put it in
6:19the air to keep it from dragging on the
6:21concrete?
6:22Sort of. I mean, it drug. You kind of
6:25had to I think one of the officers
6:28described it a good way as kind of
6:30pushing your foot.
6:32Right. He That was Sergeant Walling. He
6:35had to shove his foot to shove the gate
6:37open. Yes, sir. Okay. So, it was no easy
6:41task getting in and out of that gate,
6:43was it?
6:45I wouldn't say it was easy, but I
6:47wouldn't say it was hard. Well, if you
6:49knew what you were doing, it would be a
6:51lot easier, wouldn't it?
6:53Well, I would think that anybody really,
6:55I mean, me and my boys got it open.
6:57They had been in and out of it several
6:59times. Sure. And you knew how to get in
7:03and out of it, didn't you?
7:05Yeah, I don't think it takes too much to
7:08know how to get in and out of it. Okay.
7:12And the vacuum cleaner was where? The
7:14vacuum cleaner was beside the kitchen
7:16bar. Okay. In the den side.
7:19Is that where you normally keep the
7:21vacuum cleaner? No, sir. Where do you
7:24normally keep that vacuum cleaner?
7:26Normally, I keep the vacuum cleaner in
7:28the cherry wood room. There was another
7:31vacuum cleaner there, I think, at the
7:32time. What is the cherry wood room? I'm
7:36sorry. I don't know what y'all call it.
7:38The front living area. Okay.
7:41The very front one in there in the
7:44house. Okay. When you come into the
7:46house? Yes, you go to the left. You go
7:50to the left? Yes, sir. And you keep it
7:52in there? Yes, sir. Okay.
7:54You come in the entryway. You are
7:56talking about what is labeled the living
7:58room.
7:59Right here.
8:01That is where you keep your vacuum
8:02cleaner. Usually. Yes, sir. Every day, I
8:05mean, that is where we would find the
8:08vacuum cleaner. Well, not every day.
8:11Sometimes it would be upstairs.
8:13I have two vacuum cleaners.
8:15Well, do you have closets in the house?
8:18Not very many. There's one. One closet
8:21in the house?
8:22One hallway closet as far as clothes
8:25closets, there's a couple.
8:27And so, the vacuum cleaners, they don't
8:30fit in any of the closets. They have to
8:32be out all the time. I guess you could
8:34try to fit them in there.
8:36Well, you keep a pretty neat house,
8:38don't you? To a certain extent. Yes,
8:41sir. I mean, you are pretty famous for
8:43having a very neat house, aren't you?
8:46I like to keep a neat home. But you
8:49don't put your vacuum cleaners away.
8:51Well, it wasn't like an important thing
8:54that I made sure that I put my vacuum
8:56cleaner away. And that night, I guess,
8:58when you were lying on the couch then,
9:00the vacuum cleaner was against the bar
9:02over there. Yes, sir, I had been
9:04vacuuming. Okay.
9:06And you talked about this gangster rap
9:08song, that was your son's favorite song.
9:11It was both of my sons, one of their
9:13favorite songs.
9:15And you don't believe that they could
9:17have understood the words to it. I don't
9:19think so. Do you know the words to it?
9:21No. Okay. I mean, I know the verse, the
9:24main chorus verse, but I don't know all
9:27the words to it. No. Okay.
9:30You had said that well, let's talk about
9:32your diary for a moment. Okay.
9:35Now, you got that diary in '95. I
9:38believe so. Okay. And you made what?
9:41Four or five entries in it over a few
9:44months period. I think so. I don't know
9:47if I had read four or five, something
9:49like that.
9:50Well, most of the pages are blank,
9:52aren't they? Yes, sir. But finally, at
9:55the end there on the 3rd of May, is when
9:58you write this. Now, you say you weren't
10:01going to commit
10:03No, sir. You were just feeling real
10:06moody?
10:07I was feeling somewhat depressed and
10:09moody. Okay.
10:11I mean, I think they kind of go
10:12together.
10:13How long had you been feeling moody? I
10:16don't know. It had been a few days.
10:18Okay. And what time of the day was it
10:21that you started writing this note?
10:24I started writing the note. I think it
10:27was like I want to say like around 3:00
10:29or 3:30.
10:31Did you have pills out by you?
10:34By the note? Just out? No, sir. They
10:37were in a drawer. They were in a drawer?
10:40Yes, sir. You didn't take the pills out
10:42at all?
10:43No, sir. We took the pills out later to
10:46throw them down the toilet to flush them
10:48down the toilet.
10:49Had you thought about taking the pills?
10:52I think I was thinking about it while I
10:54was writing the letter. Yes, sir. To
10:56yourself?
10:58To think about it.
10:59Well, you were going to the trouble of
11:01writing this letter, right?
11:04Yes, sir, I did. And I also went to the
11:06trouble of stopping because I realized
11:09that I didn't want to do that.
11:11I mean, the first line in here is,
11:13quote, "I hope that one day you will
11:15forgive me for what I am about to do."
11:18What were you about to do?
11:20I was contemplating
11:22pretty seriously?
11:24If it would have been seriously, I
11:26wouldn't be here today. Well, you are
11:28writing a note. Yes, sir.
11:30Quote, "I hope that one day you will
11:32forgive me for what I am about to do."
11:34Unquote. Yes, sir. And you have got the
11:37pills. I mean, that's the way you were
11:39going to do it, right? Take pills?
11:43That's what I was thinking about. And
11:45you were going to the trouble of writing
11:46this note? Yes, sir.
11:49So, we're talking about some pretty
11:50serious contemplation, aren't we?
11:53Yes, sir, but you also have to consider
11:56that I stopped in the middle of that
11:58note and called my husband because I had
12:00decided that I wasn't going to do that
12:03and that it was silly.
12:05Now, why were you so desperate at that
12:07point in your life, 1 month before these
12:10murders, that you were thinking about
12:12committing
12:14I cannot answer that question for you.
12:17Do you have amnesia about that? No, sir.
12:20You don't have traumatic amnesia about
12:23why you were so desperate to think about
12:25committing
12:26No, sir, I don't.
12:28But you didn't purchase those pills
12:30while you were contemplating it? No.
12:33Okay. Those had just been lying around
12:35the house?
12:37They had been in a box in the house.
12:39Okay. How long had they been there?
12:42How long had they been what? In the
12:44house? Right. For quite some time. Okay.
12:48Do you remember the first time that you
12:50met with your psychiatrist on the 20th
12:53of June? She asked you about your
12:55thinking about
12:57Lisa? Yes, I guess so, sir.
13:01You don't have any other psychiatrists,
13:03do you? No, sir. Okay. Well, I mean,
13:06there was different people that talked
13:08to me in the jail. Okay. Do you remember
13:10telling her that you thought about
13:13actually bought over-the-counter pills,
13:16wrote note,
13:18but knew she couldn't, and called
13:20husband. Yes, sir. Okay, so you told her
13:24that you actually bought
13:26over-the-counter pills?
13:28I had bought over-the-counter pills for
13:31the purpose of taking them to commit
13:34No, sir. I did not buy the pills that
13:36day. If that is, I mean, what you are
13:39asking, I'm not sure.
13:41So, you felt bad enough on the 3rd of
13:43May to sit down and contemplate how you
13:46would yourself, write a note, and then
13:48decided to call your husband? Yes, sir.
13:51I guess you were not very happy with
13:53your life at that point. Well, I was
13:55feeling pretty depressed.
13:57Have you ever thought about committing
13:59at any other time in your life? No, sir.
14:02You said that you mentioned on your
14:04direct testimony about being a little by
14:08your
14:09stepfather.
14:10Stepfather. What's his name? Danny.
14:13Okay. And
14:15that happened when? How old were you?
14:18The first time I was 8 years old. Okay.
14:20And where is he now?
14:23He lives, I'm not exactly sure what the
14:25name of the place is, but it's a little
14:27bit further outside of Terrell on one of
14:30those little tiny drive-thru towns.
14:33Okay. When is the last time you saw him?
14:36The last time I saw him, I believe, was
14:38on Mother's Day. He came over to pick up
14:41Danielle, my little sister.
14:43That is Mother's Day of this last year,
14:451996, right? Yes, sir.
14:48Which would have been how close to the
14:51murder?
14:52Well, I don't know. About 3 weeks,
14:55maybe. Okay. It's in May, right?
14:58Mother's Day is. Yes, sir. Okay. And in
15:01fact, on that date, you gave him Damon
15:04and Devon, and let them go with him to
15:06his home to stay for a couple of days,
15:09didn't you? For a day. For 1 day? Yes,
15:12sir. This is the man that you? Yes, sir.
15:16And you let him have your children? Yes,
15:18sir. Can I explain that? Just answer my
15:20question. I mean, if your lawyer here
15:23wants to you explain it, he can have you
15:25do that. Okay, that is fine. Okay. And
15:29how long were they gone? A day. Okay.
15:32Incidentally, as far as that accusation
15:34of the
15:36The police were never called, were they?
15:38No, sir. I was 8 years old. Okay. When
15:41did your mother divorce him?
15:43I think I was about 17 when she got the
15:46actual, maybe 18.
15:49Which I No, when she got the actual
15:52divorce from Danny,
15:53it was about 4 or 5 years ago.
15:57But on that Mother's Day, your children
15:59were with him? Yes, sir, after Mother's
16:02Day.
16:03Is that your usual practice not to have
16:06your children with you on Mother's Day?
16:08No, they were with me half of the day.
16:11Okay, so that is not unusual practice
16:14not to be with your children on Mother's
16:16Day. No, sir.
16:18Well, in '95 and in '94, you weren't
16:21with your children on Mother's Day, were
16:23you?
16:24On Mother's Day? Yes, in '94 and '95.
16:28Yes. Where was I? Well, weren't you out
16:31kind of celebrating with your friends on
16:33those Mother's Day?
16:35Oh, are you talking about the night
16:36before Mother's Day?
16:39Well, the little party that you planned,
16:41right? Sure. Okay.
16:44I mean, that was kind of an annual event
16:47with you to go partying with some other
16:49women on Mother's Day, wasn't it?
16:52All mothers? Yes, sir. Okay.
16:54You call that Mother's Day out? Yes,
16:57sir.
16:57Okay. Now, incidentally, did you attend
17:00church regularly with your boys? No,
17:04sir. Okay. The silly string party, as I
17:07guess it's come to be known, yes, sir.
17:10You are saying that was not your idea?
17:13No, sir, it was not. Okay. Did you not
17:16go around the neighborhood telling all
17:18the kids and parents that they needed to
17:20come to this party?
17:21I called everybody. Yes, sir, I did.
17:25I mean, you did that, didn't you? Yes,
17:27sir. I mean, you were physically walking
17:30around the neighborhood, going around
17:32knocking on doors, and telling parents
17:34that they needed to bring their kids to
17:36the
17:37to a couple of their friends' house. I
17:39did. Okay. And this is while the police
17:43still had custody of your house. Is that
17:45right? Yes, sir.
17:47And you were walking around the
17:49neighborhood knocking on doors?
17:51I was not walking around the
17:52neighborhood. I went to three homes.
17:55Okay. And when you Were you on some type
17:58of drugs or something at the silly
18:00string party?
18:01I had not been taking as much medication
18:04as what I was, but yes, I was still on
18:06some.
18:08Are you trying to blame your behavior,
18:10shooting silly string, laughing and
18:12giggling on any medication?
18:15No, I am not blaming my behavior. I
18:17don't think there is anything to blame.
18:19Okay. And the silly string wasn't your
18:22idea. Is that right? No, sir. But you
18:25sure certainly didn't mind spraying it
18:27and things like that, did you? I didn't
18:30think there was anything wrong with it.
18:32And then you saw Joel Munoz out there
18:35with a camera. Yes, he was. And you
18:38talked to him at quite a great length,
18:40didn't you?
18:41Yes, he came over to the grave.
18:44You didn't mind talking to him on
18:46camera, did you?
18:48Well, actually, in the beginning, I
18:50didn't want to, but then later on, yes,
18:52I did.
18:54You warmed up to him pretty quick,
18:56didn't you? Yes, he is a very nice man.
18:59Well, you can kind of tell that from
19:01watching the videotape.
19:03He was very nice.
19:05In fact, it's on that videotape that you
19:07say that this killer went to your
19:09children first, then tried to come to
19:12you. Yes, sir.
19:14But he had to go to them first. That's
19:16what I said. Okay. Well, were you just
19:20imagining that is what happened and
19:22assuming what had happened?
19:24Well, I think we have all assumed that
19:26that is what happened. Okay, so you
19:28don't remember that? No, sir. You were
19:31just making that statement? Yes.
19:34Because you figured that is probably
19:35what happened? We all figured that that
19:38is what happened.
19:39Now, how long had the window been up in
19:41the garage?
19:43As to I mean, can you be a little bit
19:46more specific?
19:47Well, did you usually keep that window
19:49locked, this point of entry?
19:52We didn't usually keep it locked all the
19:55time. Usually it was kept open and down.
19:59I mean, it was off and on. It wasn't
20:01always up, but it wasn't always down.
20:04Why did you keep it open? I kept it open
20:07when we had cats out there and when we
20:09would breed them. Okay? And was it open
20:12on the day of the 5th?
20:14I believe it was open some.
20:16And had you been keeping it open for
20:18that entire week?
20:20I'm not sure about that. As a matter of
20:22fact, I think I had shut it a couple of
20:24times during the week.
20:27When had you shut it? I couldn't tell
20:29you, sir.
20:30But you know that it was open on
20:32Wednesday. Is that right?
20:34I know it was open on Wednesday? Yes. I
20:38believe so.
20:39And that was because you had cats out
20:41there. Is that right? No, sir. Why was
20:45that? It was just open. I just remember
20:47it being open when I had gone out into
20:49the garage. Okay.
20:51So, it's clear your husband Darren
20:54didn't commit this offense, did he? No,
20:58he didn't.
20:59I mean, you know that for a fact, don't
21:01you? Yes, sir.
21:03This jury can remove that issue from
21:05their minds whatsoever. That Darren
21:08Routier did not kill your sons? Yes,
21:10sir.
21:11The man you saw walking away was not
21:13your husband? Yes, sir.
21:16You saw that man go out into the garage.
21:19Is that right?
21:20Out through the utility room into the
21:22garage.
21:24And after that, you are wide awake down
21:26in the kitchen.
21:27And then in the Roman room and in the
21:29hallway.
21:31Well, not wide awake at first, but yes,
21:33I did become wide awake.
21:36Well, there is no way that if that had
21:38been Darren, that he could have snuck in
21:41the house and gotten back upstairs and
21:43then come back down.
21:45No, I don't think so.
21:47So, we can put that issue aside. The
21:49murder of your children is not your
21:51husband? Yes, sir. Okay. So, what it
21:55comes down to is the murderer is either
21:58this man who crept into your house and
22:00murdered your children and attacked you
22:02or you are the murderer.
22:05Sir. That has got to be one of two ways,
22:08doesn't it?
22:09Sir, I did not murder my children.
22:12It's got to be one of two ways? I did
22:15not murder my children, sir.
22:17So, it was this man who crept into your
22:19house?
22:20Yes, sir. It was. Okay. Now, at the time
22:24that this happened, did you feel stalked
22:27in any way?
22:28At the time that it of the murders. At
22:31the time that it happened? Yes, on the
22:335th.
22:34I didn't think about it. I mean, being
22:36stalked. After it happened? No, I'm
22:40talking about before.
22:42Not really stalked. I mean, we had had
22:45some phone calls and stuff, but I never
22:47really gave it a whole lot of thought.
22:49And had Darren told you that your
22:52neighbor Karen had told you about this
22:54car that was watching your house? No,
22:57sir. He didn't tell me that. He hadn't
22:59told you that? No, sir.
23:01So, the only indication that you had of
23:03anyone after you maybe were these phone
23:06calls. Is that right? At the time, I
23:09didn't think anything of it, but yes,
23:11sir. Okay.
23:13And at this point, there is a very short
23:1510-minute break. Everybody is now back
23:18into the courtroom and the questioning
23:20resumes.
23:21Over the break you were able to consult
23:24with your attorneys again. Were you not,
23:26Mrs. Routier?
23:27They told me something. Okay. You were
23:30able to talk with them there over the
23:32break? Yes. They told me that I was
23:36I didn't ask you what they said. Yes,
23:39sir. I was. I just wanted to know if you
23:41were able to talk to them. Yes, sir.
23:44Okay. I'll try to keep my questions real
23:47simple. Okay?
23:49Okay.
23:50Now, apparently, this man who crept into
23:53your house in the early morning hours of
23:55the 6th was able to murder your
23:58children, wound you and leave the one
24:02witness that could put him on death row?
24:04I think that he thought I was dead.
24:07Okay. He left the one witness who could
24:10cause his conviction and put him on
24:12death row alive? Again I think he
24:16thought I was dead.
24:17Well, were you not moving or something?
24:20I don't remember that much, sir.
24:23Then how would you know he would think
24:25that you were dead?
24:26Because he was walking away from me.
24:29And you were just laying there? Yes. I
24:32mean, he had to get close enough for you
24:34to be able to identify him, wouldn't he,
24:36Mrs. Routier?
24:38I would think so. Okay, well. I mean,
24:40you have got your throat cut. He has to
24:43do that. He has to get right up on you,
24:45doesn't he? Yes, sir. Face to face? Yes,
24:48sir. Okay. And has to be in that room
24:51while your children are
24:54Yes, sir.
24:55Let me ask you this. Do you think that
24:57you slept while that man
24:59your boys?
25:01I have no idea.
25:03Well, do you think you could have slept
25:05through that?
25:06I don't know how to answer that because
25:08I don't know.
25:09Well, you are a light sleeper, aren't
25:12you?
25:13I wouldn't necessarily call it a light
25:15sleeper.
25:17Well, don't you wake up whenever the
25:19baby moves and is crib?
25:20Yes, sir. But that is not exactly a real
25:23light noise.
25:25So, when your baby rolls over, you wake
25:27up?
25:28His crib is on a hardwood floor and it
25:31has rollers on it and when he wiggles
25:33and moves, it shakes the whole crib. And
25:36it makes I mean, it's a pretty loud
25:38noise. And that is why you were sleeping
25:40downstairs, right?
25:42It's one of the reasons, yes.
25:45I mean, that is what you put in your
25:46voluntary statement, did you not? Yes,
25:49sir. I mean, no one forced you to write
25:51that down, did they? No, sir. I mean,
25:54this is in your handwriting. Yes, sir.
25:57Okay. And don't you say, quote I had
26:00been sleeping on the couch the past week
26:02or so off and on because the baby slept
26:04in our room in the crib and when he
26:06moved, he woke me up. Yes, sir.
26:09Okay, so you are a light sleeper, aren't
26:13you?
26:14To some degree.
26:15And how close would you say Damon was to
26:18you when you went to sleep?
26:21How close was Damon?
26:23Yes, how close was he to you? He was
26:26very close.
26:27I mean, within 1 foot, wasn't he? Pretty
26:30much so, yes. Easily 1 foot lying right
26:34there beside you. Yes, on the floor.
26:37Do you think that you could have slept
26:39through a man him four times in the
26:41back?
26:43Again, I have no idea.
26:45Well, you know yourself pretty good. Do
26:47you think that you could have slept
26:48through that? Sir, I cannot answer that.
26:51I cannot remember.
26:53Do you think you could have slept when
26:55this man stabbed your 7-year-old Devon?
26:59I can't answer that question. He was
27:01only about 4 or 5 feet away from you,
27:03wasn't he? Yes, he was.
27:06Well, you are a mother, aren't you? Yes,
27:09sir. I am. And don't mothers aren't they
27:12able to tell when their children are in
27:13trouble?
27:15I would like to think so.
27:16Aren't they known for being able to hear
27:18those noises?
27:20From an instinct.
27:22Have that instinct? Yes, sir.
27:24So, don't you think that you would have
27:26woken up if a man started stabbing you?
27:30I have no idea of what happened that
27:32night.
27:33Well, certainly you would have woken up
27:35when he started beating you, wouldn't
27:37you?
27:38I have assumed that that is what
27:40happened. Yes, sir.
27:42I mean you would have to be awake to
27:44take a beating like that.
27:46I would assume so. Yes, sir.
27:48And it's your arms that were beaten,
27:51weren't they?
27:52As far as I know, yes, sir. Okay. I mean
27:55you weren't hit in the face, that's for
27:57sure. Were you? Directly in the face?
28:00Yes, we can't see any bruises on your
28:03face, can we?
28:04No, sir. Okay.
28:06And you weren't stabbed in your face,
28:09were you?
28:10Not stabbed. There were marks on my
28:12face.
28:14You weren't beaten in the chest,
28:16stomach, back or anything like that?
28:19I have no idea.
28:21Well, did you ever see any bruises in
28:23your chest, in your back? Not bruises
28:27but there was a mark on my breast.
28:29But no bruises? No bruises. Okay. You
28:33didn't complain to the doctors about a
28:35big headache, being whacked in the head
28:38or bumps on the head?
28:40Actually, I did complain about feeling
28:42pain. I didn't complain specifically in
28:45what areas. I was hurting all over from
28:47head to toe.
28:49Certainly, you are not going to wake up
28:51or you are are going to wake up when he
28:54cut your throat, aren't you?
28:57I have no idea. I would assume so.
29:00You wouldn't sleep through that, would
29:01you?
29:02I don't know what happened. I would
29:04assume so, but I cannot remember.
29:07Do you really think that you could have
29:08slept when the man cut your throat?
29:11I don't think so.
29:12You couldn't have slept when you got
29:14stabbed in the arm, either, could you? I
29:17don't think so. Okay.
29:19And if you had awakened, if you had
29:21woken up when your children were
29:22attacked, you would have screamed,
29:25wouldn't you? Unless my mouth was
29:27covered.
29:28Well, I mean, that would
29:30I guess, are there more than one man
29:32attacking you? I have no idea, sir.
29:35I mean, if there was just one guy, he
29:37can only do one thing at a time, can't
29:39he?
29:40Well, you only saw one man, didn't you?
29:43I only saw one man. Yes, sir.
29:46Okay, walking away from you?
29:48And if there is just one man attacking
29:50your kids and you saw him,
29:53you would jump up and defend your
29:54children, wouldn't you?
29:56I would think so, but again, I cannot
29:59remember.
30:00You would think you would get up? Yes,
30:02sir. And defend your children? Yes, sir.
30:05Don't you know you would do that? Yes,
30:07sir. I mean, you would defend them with
30:09your life, wouldn't you? Yes, sir. If
30:12you saw a man attacking your children,
30:14you would scream your head off, wouldn't
30:16you?
30:17Yes, sir, unless my mouth was covered.
30:20You would scream for your husband,
30:21wouldn't you? Unless my mouth was
30:23covered. Yes, sir.
30:25You didn't have any problems screaming
30:27for him when he finally got up and came
30:29down there, did you? My mouth was not
30:32covered.
30:33Did you find any tape or any gauze or
30:35anything stuffed in your mouth that
30:37showed it to be covered?
30:39No, just except for that it was torn up
30:42inside. Okay, it was all torn up inside.
30:46Well, it felt raw. Did you talk to the
30:49doctors about that? I talked to the
30:51nurse about that. Yes, I did.
30:54There is no way you could have prevented
30:56from defending your children and
30:58sounding the alarm if you had seen them
31:00being attacked. What do you mean? I'm
31:03not sure I understand what you mean.
31:06Well, if you had woken up and some man
31:08is your children, you would have tried
31:11to stop him, wouldn't you? Yes, sir.
31:14Okay. But you have no memory of any of
31:16that. No, sir.
31:18You must have been beaten first,
31:21wouldn't you say? Sir, I have no idea. I
31:23have sat for 7 months and tried to think
31:26of every possible thing I could think of
31:29what this man did to me. Okay, I don't
31:32remember.
31:33You don't know if you were stabbed first
31:35or you were beaten on the arms first? I
31:39have no idea. I don't remember.
31:42And what is the description that you
31:44remember? The best description that you
31:46have of this man.
31:48It's not much. He was a taller man with
31:51dark hair. Okay, let's start with that.
31:54How tall was he? I cannot give you an
31:57exact I mean, I can just tell you that
31:59he was above, I would think above 6 ft.
32:02Okay, above 6 ft? Yes, sir.
32:06And I believe you said that he was a
32:08long Chris Frosch's build, is that
32:10right? Yes, sir.
32:12Are you talking about height-wise?
32:15Built-wise. Okay. And I mean, I haven't
32:19seen Chris Frosch in, you know, I have
32:21just seen him in dress clothes, but he
32:24seems to be about the same build. Okay.
32:27So, he is the same height and build as
32:31this man that was walking away?
32:33Well, approximately. Okay, so the man is
32:36over 6 ft, you would say. Yes, sir. And
32:39he was a white male? I don't know that
32:42for sure. Okay, what kind of hair did he
32:45have? He had longer hair. How long was
32:48it? Like here. Okay, whatever you call
32:51that. To his collar? Yes. What color was
32:56it?
32:56Well, as far as I could tell, it was
32:59dark because it was dark in there. Okay.
33:02And the build he had, he was built like
33:05Chris Frosch?
33:07To some degree, yes, sir. Okay, well, to
33:10what degree was he not? Sir, you are
33:13asking me to be specific about something
33:15that I cannot be specific about. Okay.
33:18And you saw his back and that was all?
33:21Yes, sir. As he walked away? Yes, sir.
33:24You didn't yell out Darren when you saw
33:26this man walking in your house?
33:29Actually, it happened all so quick. I
33:31did yell out for Darren, but it was
33:33after a couple of seconds that the guy
33:35had already walked out.
33:37While you were still on the couch? No,
33:40sir. Okay, while you were in the
33:42kitchen? Yes, sir. That is when you
33:44yelled out for Darren? That is the first
33:47time? Yes, sir.
33:48Who In talking to Dr. Clayton yesterday,
33:52who is Glenn?
33:53I really don't know Glenn that well.
33:56Glenn was somebody that came into the
33:58shop. I think that he knew one of the
34:00men beside that works beside our shop.
34:04Okay. And he had come in and he had said
34:07some things to Baja, Barbara, and they
34:10weren't very nice things and I guess his
34:13wife was having some problems with that
34:15and his wife called and I told her that
34:18what he did. You told his wife? Yes,
34:21sir. When was this? This was about a
34:23year and a half ago. Okay, and then what
34:26happened? Did he threaten you in some
34:28way? Yes, he threatened me later over
34:31the phone. Okay. How long ago was this?
34:35It was about, oh, not quite a year and a
34:37half. Okay.
34:39And you say that you gave the police his
34:41name?
34:42I told them Glenn. I don't think I gave
34:45them the last name because I didn't know
34:47his last name at that time.
34:49What is his last name?
34:52Okay, now you Did you tell them this is
34:56guy that just threatened you or did this
34:59guy look like the killer?
35:01Yeah, I just told them, they just asked
35:04me if there was anybody that we thought,
35:06I mean, they asked me and Darren
35:08together at one time if there was
35:10anybody that we thought, you know, had
35:12ever threatened us or anything like
35:14that.
35:16You are not saying this Glenn guy did
35:18the killing, are you? I don't know.
35:21Well, does he look like the guy?
35:24Well, I have not really seen Glenn.
35:27Well, when you had seen him, did he look
35:30like him? Well, I haven't seen Glenn.
35:33Well, what does he look like? Glenn?
35:36Yes. I don't know. You don't know what
35:38he looks like? Not to give you a
35:40detailed description. No. You have never
35:43seen him before? No, I saw him when we
35:47walked in to go and to talk to Baja, but
35:51that was a year and a half ago and I
35:53really wasn't paying that much
35:55attention. Okay. So, you really don't
35:58know what this Glenn guy looks like? Not
36:00really. No, sir. I mean, we have people
36:03walk in and out of our shop. Okay. You
36:06can't tell us if he is a tall guy or
36:08short guy or fat guy or skinny guy? No,
36:12sir. So, you don't know if he would look
36:14anything like this man you saw walking
36:17away? No, sir. Okay, so you just told
36:20that you just told the police this Glenn
36:23guy had threatened you at some points in
36:25the past. Yes, sir. Do you think you
36:28would recognize Glenn if you saw him
36:30again? I don't know. Well, we will give
36:34it a try. Okay. Mr. Shook then says,
36:37"Y'all come on up here, please." And at
36:39this point, Chris Frosch and Glenn
36:43enter the courtroom and the proceedings
36:45were then resumed on the record. Mr.
36:47Shook says, "All right, y'all just come
36:49on up here, please. All right, stand
36:51right here for me, please. Okay?" And
36:54then Mr. Shook again begins his
36:56questioning. All right, do you recognize
36:59him as being Glenn
37:02Yeah, but the hair looks longer. Okay,
37:04but this is Glenn
37:06I guess so. Okay.
37:08Mr. Shook then says, "If y'all could
37:10just, I don't want to make it like a
37:12beauty pageant, but if you could turn
37:15around with your backs to the jury and
37:17also to Mrs. Rutier." And the witnesses
37:20say, "Okay." Mr. Shook then says, "All
37:22right, they don't really have the same
37:25build, do they?" No, sir. So, can we
37:28eliminate Glenn Mies as being the one? I
37:31think so.
37:32Mr. Shook then says, "Okay, all right,
37:34y'all can go on back. Thank you." Mr.
37:37Shook then continues.
37:38All right, so we got Darren out and we
37:41got Glenn out. Yes, sir. Okay, do you
37:45remember on the 18th going to the
37:47Rowlett Police Department and talking to
37:49a man by the name of Bill Parker? Yes,
37:52sir. A private detective, retired Dallas
37:55homicide officer? Yes, sir. Do you
37:58remember how long you talked to him?
38:00About 2 hours. Okay, you and him were in
38:03a room there at the Rowlett Police
38:05Department? Yes, sir. Okay, and during
38:08the course of that conversation, he read
38:10you your Miranda rights, didn't he? Yes,
38:13sir.
38:14Mr. Hagler of the defense says, "Excuse
38:17me, your honor, could we approach the
38:18bench?" And the court says, "You may."
38:21And then a short discussion is held off
38:23of the record
38:24at which time the proceedings were
38:27resumed.
38:28Mr. Hagler, again of the defense, says,
38:31"Your honor, could we have just a
38:32second, please?" And the court says,
38:34"Oh, by all means, yes."
38:37Members of the jury, if you will please
38:39step back in the jury room briefly,
38:41please. So, the jury is excused from the
38:45courtroom and the proceedings are held
38:47in the presence of the defendant and her
38:49attorney, but outside the presence of
38:51the jury as follows.
38:53And the court says, "Let the record
38:55reflect that these proceedings are being
38:57held outside of the presence of the jury
38:59and that all parties in the trial are
39:01present. If we can get directly to the
39:03point, please, gentlemen." Mr. Shook
39:06says, "Yes, sir." The court says, "Okay,
39:08now listen to these questions carefully
39:11and just answer them as straight as they
39:13come. Okay?" The witness says, "Yes,
39:15sir." The court says, "All right, thank
39:17you. All right, Mr. Shook." And Mr. Toby
39:20Shook says, "Yes, sir." and continues
39:22questioning Darly. And again, remember,
39:24at this point the jury is not in the
39:26room. Do you recall in talking to Mr.
39:29Parker, did he accuse you of killing
39:32your children on six different
39:34occasions? And when he did, that you
39:37answered, quote, "If I did, I don't
39:39remember it."?
39:41No, sir, I did not say that.
39:43You didn't say that on any of the times?
39:46No, sir. You never said that to him? No,
39:49sir.
39:50Whether it was one time or six times,
39:52you never said that to him?
39:54I never said that I don't remember.
39:57Okay. Mr. Toby Shook says, "That is the
40:00statement that I wanted to ask Mrs.
40:01Rutiyya about."
40:03And the court says, "And that occurred
40:05when?" Mr. Shook says, "Oh, also, Judge,
40:09just so we don't have to have another
40:11hearing. The other thing is, do you
40:13recall Mr. Parker asking you if
40:16everything here in your voluntary
40:18statement was true and correct?"
40:20And Darley responds with, "If Mr. Parker
40:22asked me that."
40:24Mr. Shook says, "Yes."
40:26"I don't remember him asking me that."
40:28"And you don't recall reading over this
40:31statement in front of him?" "No, sir. He
40:33had an arrest warrant affidavit with
40:35him."
40:36Mhm.
40:38"That's all he had with him." "That I
40:40saw."
40:41"You never read over statement? No, sir.
40:44Not with Bill Parker." Okay. Mr. Shook
40:47says,
40:48"That is another question I had." And
40:50the court said, "She had been
40:52Mirandized?"
40:53Mr. Davis says, "Yes, sir." And the
40:55court says, "Okay, Mr. Hagler?"
40:58Mr. Hagler then says, "Well, your honor,
41:00she was, from what I understand, the
41:03arrest warrant had already been issued.
41:05She was at the police station. She was,
41:08although unbeknownst to her, she clearly
41:11was in custody. Therefore, the provision
41:1438.22
41:16are going to be applicable, your honor.
41:19And apparently, they are going to
41:20attempt to argue here that this will be
41:22some type of impeachment. And I don't
41:25think that they have laid the proper
41:27predicate for the impeachment. And
41:29furthermore, apparently, I'm not sure at
41:32one point in time she made these
41:33statements, but there are certainly some
41:35issues as to whether or not these
41:37statements that she understood what the
41:40interrogation was about and whether or
41:42not she freely and voluntarily made the
41:44statements. And we would object to going
41:47into any matters while she was in
41:49custody. Clearly, there was an arrest
41:52warrant out for her. So, these are all
41:54custodial statements."
41:56And the court says, "That is correct,
41:57but she had been Mirandized?" Mr. Davis
42:00says, "Yes, sir, she had." And the court
42:03says, "All right, okay, fine. The court
42:05is overruling your objection. And I
42:07assume you want a running objection."
42:10Mr. Hagler of the defense says, "Yes,
42:11your honor."
42:12And the court says, "You may have it.
42:14Let's bring the jury back in."
42:16And at this point, the jury is then
42:18brought back in to the courtroom and
42:20everything is resumed on the record. And
42:23Mr. Shook continues his
42:25cross-examination.
42:27"Do you recall talking with a man by the
42:29name of Bill Parker at the Rowlett
42:31Police Department on the 18th of June?"
42:33"Yes, sir." Okay. "And did he show you
42:36your voluntary statement?" "No, sir."
42:39"Did he show you the voluntary statement
42:41and ask you to read over it?" "No, sir."
42:45"Did he ask you, 'Do you want to make
42:47any changes in this voluntary
42:49statement?'" "No, sir." "The only thing
42:52I saw from him was an arrest warrant
42:54affidavit."
42:55"So, you are saying that he never showed
42:58you any voluntary statement?"
43:00"He did not ever show me my voluntary
43:03statement." "And you didn't read over it
43:06in front of him?" "No, sir." Okay. "And
43:09while you talked to him during that
43:11interview, at least six times he accused
43:15you of killing your children."
43:17"And in each response to him, you said,
43:19{quote} 'If I did it, I don't remember
43:21it.'"
43:22"No, sir." "You never said that?" "No."
43:25"Okay, not once, not twice, not six
43:28times?" "I never said that." Okay. "And
43:3276-A,
43:33this is your voluntary statement, isn't
43:35it?" "Let me see it." "Is that your
43:38statement?" "Yes, sir, it is."
43:40"And you wrote that out in your own
43:42handwriting?" "The day before the
43:44viewing?" "Yes, sir." Right. "Down at
43:47the Rowlett Police Department?" "Yes."
43:49"How long did it take you to write this
43:51out?" "I really don't remember. I know
43:54that I was there a total of almost 3
43:56hours." Okay. "It's 10 pages, isn't it?"
44:01"If you say so." "Yes." Okay. "Well,
44:04take a look at it. Let me just see that
44:05last page."
44:07"Yes, 10." Okay. "Yes, sir." Okay. "And
44:11did you write it out all in one sitting?
44:14Just sit down and start writing?" "Yes,
44:16sir." Okay. "Was Detective Patterson
44:19asking you questions?"
44:21"He asked me questions before." "Okay,
44:23but while you wrote it out, you just sat
44:26there and wrote it?"
44:27"Just wrote questions."
44:29"All 10 pages?"
44:30"I mean, I just wrote." "Yes, sir."
44:33"You knew it was real important to get
44:35all this information down, didn't you?"
44:37"No, sir, I did not." "You didn't think
44:40it was important?" "Not in the way that
44:42they are saying it's important." "I
44:44mean, don't you think it was pretty
44:46important if a detective on the case is
44:48asking you to write down what happened
44:51that night?"
44:52"Sir, at that time, all I was concerned
44:55with was getting to the viewing to see
44:57my boys."
44:58"Well, you wrote 10 pages." "Yes, sir, I
45:01did." Okay.
45:02"And that is not, if you look at that
45:04and you compare that to my normal
45:06handwriting, you can tell that is pretty
45:08sloppy." Okay.
45:10"We know that in this voluntary
45:12statement that you never mentioned going
45:15to the kitchen sink, do you?"
45:17"No, sir. There's a lot of things in
45:19there that are not mentioned, I
45:20believe."
45:21"All right. Well, we will get to some of
45:24those, but as far as going to the
45:26kitchen sink, wetting towels, that is
45:28never mentioned in here?"
45:30"I believe there is mention about
45:32getting towels."
45:33"But wetting towels?" "No, sir. That is
45:37not mentioned in there, is it?" "No,
45:39sir." Okay. "Going to the sink?" "No,
45:41sir."
45:42"The sink is not mentioned anywhere in
45:44here, is it?" "No, sir." "Of course, at
45:47that time, you didn't know that the
45:49police had taken your kitchen sink, had
45:52you?" "No, sir."
45:54"You didn't find that out until they
45:56released the house back to you?"
45:58"Well, actually, we were in the house
46:00that night, but I didn't even recognize
46:03it that night."
46:05"You didn't recognize the sink gone?"
46:08"No, sir." "Didn't make any mention of
46:11the sink being gone?"
46:13"No, as a matter of fact, I mentioned
46:15something to Chris Frosh about going to
46:17the sink and he"
46:20"When did you do that?" Mr. Mulder says,
46:23"Excuse me, Judge. If he will just do
46:25her the courtesy of We have been very
46:28patient. If he will just do her the
46:30courtesy of letting her complete her
46:33answer."
46:34The court says, "All right, that is
46:35fine. Let her complete her answer. Did
46:38you have anything else to say to that?"
46:41The witness says, "Yes, sir." And the
46:42court says, "All right, well, go ahead
46:44and say it." "The day the house was
46:45released, Chris Frosh was standing, I
46:48believe he was in the"
46:50"Whatever you guys call it, in the
46:51living area, the den, the family room.
46:54He was standing in the family room with
46:56me and Darren. And I had realized that I
46:59had gone to the sink and had gotten
47:01towels out of the drawer, and I told him
47:03that."
47:04Mr. Shook then says, "That is the first
47:07time that you mentioned that?"
47:09"Yes, sir." "But you didn't mention it
47:11here in your voluntary statement?" "No,
47:13sir." Okay. "Of course,
47:15you didn't know how important it might
47:18be if the police discovered that there
47:20might be some cleanup over there at the
47:23sink."
47:24"I didn't think any of that stuff was
47:26important." Okay.
47:28"You also don't mention leaning on the
47:31vacuum cleaner at all, do you?" "No,
47:33sir." "You don't mention the vacuum
47:36cleaner anywhere?" "No, sir." "Don't
47:39mention having to" "Hold on to it like a
47:40cane?" "No, sir." "Of course, at that
47:43time, you didn't know that your blood
47:46had dripped on it while it was
47:47standing."
47:48"At that particular time?" "No, sir."
47:51"And you didn't know that your blood
47:53also was shown on it when" "Sir,
47:57there were a lot of things that happened
47:59that night that I didn't know of."
48:01"Excuse me." "And you had no idea that
48:04the police could later discover that
48:06blood, your blood drops could be found
48:09on this vacuum cleaner in such a way
48:12that you deposited that"
48:14"Sir, my blood was everywhere in that
48:17house."
48:18"Could I finish my question, please?"
48:20"Yes, sir."
48:21"You had no way of knowing that at that
48:24time, the police would be able to go in
48:27and find that you had put blood on this
48:29vacuum cleaner, that it had dripped
48:32while it was laying on the floor. You
48:34didn't know that, did you?"
48:36"I'm not sure. I didn't know"
48:39"You didn't know that they could do
48:41that, did you?"
48:42"That they could see blood on a vacuum
48:44cleaner?"
48:45"That they could tell that you had been
48:48standing over it while the vacuum
48:50cleaner was laying down."
48:52"I mean, you are not a blood spatter
48:54expert, are you?" "No, sir, I am not."
48:57Okay. "And you didn't know that they
49:00would be able to tell that your blood
49:03was deposited on this vacuum cleaner
49:05while it was standing up, also, did
49:07you?" "No, sir."
49:09"And you didn't know that they had found
49:12the vacuum cleaner laying in the floor,
49:15but more importantly, what was
49:17underneath were your bloody footprints?"
49:20"I later found that out." "Yes, sir."
49:22"But at the time you made the statement,
49:24this 10-page statement, you didn't know
49:27that, did you?"
49:28"No, sir, I didn't know any of this
49:30stuff." Okay.
49:32"I didn't think it was important. And
49:34back on the 8th of June, when you wrote
49:36out your 10-page statement, you didn't
49:39mention going over to your son Damon,
49:42did you? No, sir.
49:44We're not going to find that anywhere in
49:46here, are we? No, sir. Okay. I mean, you
49:49mentioned laying a towel on Damon. You
49:52mentioned that in here, don't you? I
49:55believe so. Okay, but you never
49:57mentioned going to Devon and putting a
50:00towel on him. No, sir. Or leaning over
50:04to Darren?
50:05No, sir. There's things to remember that
50:08happened that night.
50:10You talk about Darren giving CPR to
50:12Devon in here, don't you? I don't know.
50:15Did I?
50:16You describe it, don't you? I don't
50:18know.
50:19Well, you can take a look and see. It
50:21should be towards the back. About
50:23Darren?
50:25About Darren performing CPR on Devon?
50:28Quote, "The paramedic came in and tried
50:31to work on the children and Darren was
50:33screaming, quote, 'Who did this?'"
50:36Prior to that, do you mention Darren
50:39going to the aid of your children?
50:42Okay, yeah, it's right here. Okay. What
50:45did you say in that statement?
50:48"Darren started giving Devon CPR while I
50:51put a towel on my neck and a towel over
50:53Damon's back."
50:55Okay. So, you thought it was important
50:57enough when you were writing that
50:59statement to put that you put a towel on
51:01Damon and that Darren was giving CPR,
51:05but you didn't bother to write in there
51:07that you yourself went over and put a
51:09towel on Devon, did you? Sir, I didn't
51:12know what was important and what was not
51:14important at that time. Okay, well, you
51:17left it out. Yes, sir.
51:19Okay. Now, you say in that statement
51:22that you had laid a towel on Damon. Do
51:24you mean you laid it across his back?
51:27Yes, sir.
51:28While he was laying there on the floor?
51:30Yes, sir. Okay, you didn't bend down and
51:33apply pressure to his back, though, did
51:36you? No, sir.
51:37You just laid it across his back? Yes,
51:40sir.
51:41Okay, this is after you had wet it,
51:43right? Yes, sir. Okay, so, you just kind
51:46of laid it down on him? Yes, sir. What
51:50good would laying a towel down on his
51:52back do?
51:53Sir, I didn't know what I was doing. You
51:56didn't know what you were doing? I mean,
51:58for that to have any effect at all, you
52:00would have to put pressure on it. You
52:01would have to hold it, wouldn't you?
52:04I was trying to do the best that I could
52:06in the situation that I was in. Okay.
52:09And you said that you wet the towel
52:11first. Yes, sir. Okay. Wet towels are
52:14not going to do a very good job in that
52:16situation.
52:18Well, I didn't know that. You didn't
52:20know that?
52:21No, sir. I have never had any medical
52:23training or CPR before. Well, your boys
52:26have gotten cuts on them. They have hurt
52:28themselves when they were growing up.
52:30And Devon had gotten one cut before.
52:33Do you put wet Band-Aids or wet towels
52:36on them or do you try to put a dry one
52:39on them to stop the bleeding?
52:41Actually, I put When Devon had his
52:44accident, I did put a wet towel on his
52:46head.
52:48Doesn't common sense tell you you have
52:50to put a dry towel on something like
52:52that?
52:53Sir, at that time, there was no common
52:56sense. Okay, well, you had enough common
52:58sense to put a towel on your wound,
53:01didn't you? Yes, I did. I mean, you put
53:04a towel right on your neck right away,
53:06didn't you?
53:08Well, actually, it was a couple of
53:09times. I know what it says in there, but
53:12it was after I had gone back and forth a
53:14couple of times.
53:16You didn't have any problem in the world
53:18figuring out that you needed to put a
53:20towel on your neck and apply pressure to
53:22stop that bleeding? No, sir. It was also
53:25a wet towel, too.
53:27But you kept it on your neck, didn't
53:29you? It was on my neck. Yes, sir. The
53:32whole time, didn't you?
53:35I don't know if it was on my neck the
53:36whole time.
53:38While you were on the phone to 911, you
53:40kept that towel right to your neck? I'm
53:43not sure about that. You are not sure?
53:46No, sir.
53:47Well, we know you kept it on there some,
53:50didn't you? Yes, sir. I mean, that is
53:52why you couldn't put apply any pressure
53:55to your son Damon was because you had
53:57your hands full? Sir, I was running back
53:59and forth doing all kinds of things.
54:02One hand, you had the phone.
54:04Part of time, I had the phone like this.
54:08And she demonstrates. And the other
54:10hand, you had the towel right to your
54:12neck?
54:13Part of the time. Yes, sir.
54:15You weren't about to let that towel go
54:17and reach down and try to stop the
54:19bleeding from your son, were you? Sir, I
54:22was doing a lot of things at once.
54:24Mainly, with one hand, you were holding
54:26that towel some of the time,
54:29but you never applied pressure to
54:31Damon's wounds, did you? No, sir. I
54:33didn't. Okay. You also put in your
54:36statement that while all of this is
54:38going on, let's see, Darren, he is over
54:41there working on Devon and Yes, sir.
54:44And you have laid a towel down.
54:47I went over to Darren and helped with
54:49Devon after I saw what Darren was doing
54:52and then I came back again and laid the
54:54towel down beside Darren just on the
54:56floor.
54:57And you write in your statement, quote,
55:00"I looked over at Darren and saw the
55:02glass table had been knocked halfway off
55:04and the flower arrangement had been
55:06knocked over." I think so. You remember
55:09that? Yes, sir. Okay, to some degree.
55:12Well, you remembered it enough to be
55:14able to write it down in your voluntary
55:16statement on the 8th.
55:18It's in there. Yes, sir. Okay, quote, "I
55:21then stood up and turned around and saw
55:23glass all over the kitchen floor." You
55:25remember that, don't you?
55:27If it's in there, yes, sir.
55:29Your memory back on the 8th was that you
55:32saw all this glass on the kitchen floor?
55:35I did see some glass on the kitchen
55:37floor.
55:38While your son Damon is lying there
55:40bleeding and your husband was working on
55:42Devon.
55:43Well, it was just a glance. It's not I
55:45mean,
55:47then, quote, "I tried to glance over to
55:49see if anything was out of place or if
55:51anything was missing." Yes, sir. You
55:54looked around to see if anything was
55:55missing?
55:56Well, when I was standing where the
55:58knife was placed, there was my jewelry
56:01was sitting right beside it and that is
56:03what I saw. Okay.
56:05Why would you want to glance around to
56:07see if anything was missing?
56:08Because the officer, when he came in,
56:10told me that nothing was gone. Okay, so
56:13you wanted to look around for that? I
56:16didn't necessarily look around. I mean,
56:18it was like right there in front of my
56:20face.
56:21And you knew nothing was gone? As far as
56:23that, it didn't look like anything was
56:25gone.
56:26You said that several times on the 911
56:29tape. Yes, sir. I was just responding to
56:31what the officer told me. Nothing is
56:34touched, nothing is touched? I think he
56:36said nothing is There is nothing gone. I
56:39think those were his words.
56:42And your interpretation of the 911 tape
56:45is that you never used the word that,
56:48quote, "I was fighting." Is that right?
56:52No, sir. You can hear it. Your
56:54interpretation is you were frightening?
56:57I was frightened. Frightened?
57:00If you say it like that, but when you
57:03are running back and forth and you are
57:04out of breath. Okay. Let me take a
57:07moment. Maybe I can use one of these.
57:09All right?
57:11What page? Five. Okay. About the middle
57:14of that page before we get to that. Yes,
57:16sir. You are saying, I believe, quote,
57:19"Some man came in, stabbed my babies,
57:22stabbed me. I woke up." Unquote. And
57:25your version is I was frightening? Yes,
57:28sir. Frightening? Yes, sir.
57:30And he ran out and threw the knife down.
57:33Yes, sir. Of course, our version was,
57:35quote, "I was fighting."
57:38Well, you can listen to it.
57:40Of course, if you said, quote, "I was
57:42fighting," that would indicate that you
57:44remember what was going on, right? I'm
57:46not sure. Well, if you were able to say
57:49on the 911 tape, "I was fighting him."
57:52That would mean you would have a memory
57:54of that attack, wouldn't it?
57:56Well, it does not necessarily mean that.
57:59It doesn't? I was talking to three
58:01different people at one time.
58:03But if you said on the 911 tape, if you
58:06said, quote, "I woke up, I was fighting
58:09and he ran through the garage." That
58:12would indicate that you do remember what
58:14was going on, wouldn't it?
58:16Well, sir, I don't think that it says
58:18fighting.
58:19Oh, no.
58:21I have listened to this tape a lot of
58:22times.
58:24But if it did say fighting, I don't
58:26think it does say fighting. If it did
58:29say fighting, wouldn't that indicate
58:31that you do remember?
58:33I don't think it does say fighting. I
58:35don't think it does say fighting. If it
58:39did say fighting, wouldn't that be an
58:41indication that you remember what was
58:43going on? I don't think that it does say
58:46fighting.
58:48Can I take that as a yes, then? I think
58:50it says frightening. You were
58:52frightening? Yes, sir. You can listen to
58:54it.
58:55Oh, I have. I know you have. I have lots
58:58of times. So have I. The court then
59:01says, "All right, let's just questions
59:03and answers, please."
59:05And at this point, I'm going to pause
59:07this because this goes on
59:09the rest of the prosecution's
59:11questioning of Darley goes on for quite
59:14some time.
59:15So, I'm going to pause this right here.
59:17They move on to a
59:19little bit of a different subject, but
59:20you can tell that it's it's starting to
59:24get a little testy, right? So, anyhow,
59:26yeah, let's uh
59:28close this right now
59:30and then move right into the recap.
59:33Okay, so the prosecution starts off by
59:37leading Darley down the path of what she
59:40did for the business, the test neck
59:42business, and how she helped keep the
59:45books, but Darley was really quick to
59:47point out that they actually also had a
59:49CPA for the company.
59:51He also made mention of her having
59:54someone help clean the home.
59:57That she had somebody come into the
59:58house to help her clean.
1:00:00Uh when he asks her about the gate
1:00:04and she if she tested it after Darin had
1:00:08fixed it, she said that she didn't.
1:00:10Now, that he that Darin had just said,
1:00:13"Hey, he fixed it." and that was good
1:00:15enough for her. So, just think about
1:00:17everyday life here for a second. If you
1:00:19have a significant other or whomever and
1:00:23they say that they had gone out to do
1:00:24something, are you going to then go out
1:00:27and check on it yourself as they did or
1:00:30as if, you know, they were some child
1:00:32whose homework that you had to go over?
1:00:34Of course not. If they said that they
1:00:36did something, you believe that they did
1:00:38it.
1:00:39The prosecutor then really goes into
1:00:41this gate about how Darley would have
1:00:43known how to get in and out of the gate,
1:00:45you know, even though it would stick on
1:00:46the concrete and, you know, I I almost
1:00:49had to laugh because, well, of course
1:00:50she did. You know, she lived there. Of
1:00:52course she knew how to get in and out of
1:00:54this gate.
1:00:55And then he goes into things like where
1:00:57she keeps her vacuum cleaners and why
1:01:00they weren't in closets, but instead
1:01:02were sitting in a particular room and
1:01:04then goes on to say, quote, "You are
1:01:05pretty famous for having a neat house,
1:01:08right?"
1:01:09Again, this guy is just so petty.
1:01:12Anything that he can find that is 100%
1:01:15normal to anyone in everyday life, he
1:01:19turns into a criminal issue.
1:01:22And then, just when I just when I
1:01:24thought we were out of the woods with
1:01:26this song, uh the whole Gangster's
1:01:29Paradise song
1:01:31um was brought up yet again. Good lord,
1:01:33I think that if Darley had parted her
1:01:36hair on a different side one day, he
1:01:38would use that as some kind of weird
1:01:40thing that had to have some kind of
1:01:43criminal intent to it as well.
1:01:46Now, when we get to the May 3rd diary
1:01:49entry, Darley said that the pills that
1:01:53had been spoken about, these pills were
1:01:55still in a drawer. She did not have them
1:01:57sitting out. And then, evidently, she
1:02:00said that later they, I'm assuming she
1:02:02meant her and Darin, flushed them down
1:02:04the toilet.
1:02:06Now, after the prosecutor questions her
1:02:08persistently about
1:02:11he makes sure to mention it nine times.
1:02:13I just want you to be aware of that,
1:02:15nine times in that short amount that he
1:02:17questions her about this letter, making
1:02:20sure that this jury has this firmly in
1:02:22their head. And I only know this because
1:02:25I have to censor this word each time
1:02:28it's said due to YouTube's guidelines.
1:02:32It was interesting that Damon and Devon
1:02:36were allowed to go with their stepfather
1:02:38for a day or so. I think it was just a
1:02:40day on Mother's Day about a month before
1:02:43the crime.
1:02:44When this is the guy who had attempted
1:02:47to
1:02:49Darley when she was younger. Now, to be
1:02:51fair, we don't know the entire
1:02:52circumstances. It's been many, many
1:02:55years since this occurred to her, but so
1:02:58many things could have happened.
1:03:00It's really hard to say. We don't hear
1:03:02the rest of the story, so
1:03:04I can get where people might be a
1:03:06little, you know,
1:03:08you know, weirded out maybe about that.
1:03:11He then makes reference to the fact that
1:03:13Darley was only with her children half
1:03:15of the day on Mother's Day and then
1:03:17makes it out to be something terrible
1:03:19that she went out with other moms the
1:03:21night before Mother's Day, which is, you
1:03:24know, again, you know, petty.
1:03:28He asks Darley if she attends church on
1:03:31a regular basis and she says no. Now, to
1:03:34me, this is not a big deal, right?
1:03:36Everybody has their own ways of
1:03:38worshipping or not.
1:03:40But, Texas is considered to be in the
1:03:43Bible Belt where it might be frowned
1:03:45upon if you don't go to church on a
1:03:47regular basis. And I'm sure that the
1:03:50prosecutor wanted to be sure that he
1:03:52pointed that out, especially to those
1:03:54folks in the jury where they're having
1:03:57this trial in this small conservative
1:03:59town of Kerrville, Texas.
1:04:02Darley again says that she is not the
1:04:04one who planned the silly string party,
1:04:07but then Mr. Shook starts asking if she
1:04:10went around, quote, "the entire
1:04:12neighborhood," unquote, telling telling
1:04:15the kids and the parents that they
1:04:17needed to come to this party.
1:04:19She did say that she called them, which,
1:04:21you know, I'm sure it was incredibly
1:04:23difficult, uh
1:04:24but it was a necessity.
1:04:26Uh but Mr. Shook wants her to admit that
1:04:29she was walking around her neighborhood
1:04:31knocking on everyone's doors when, in
1:04:33fact, she only did did this to three
1:04:36homes.
1:04:38She's questioned on the window in the
1:04:40garage and how she believed that she
1:04:42closed it a couple of times that week,
1:04:44but also believes that it was partially
1:04:47open the day of the crime. It also
1:04:49sounded like that this window wasn't
1:04:50actually locked on a very consistent
1:04:53basis.
1:04:54He does ask her specifically about Darin
1:04:58and whether she believes that maybe it
1:05:00was her husband, but she testifies that
1:05:03he did not do this.
1:05:05And so, the prosecutor states then that
1:05:08it has to be then either her or an
1:05:11intruder.
1:05:12And she is then asked if she had been
1:05:14stalked and talks about these phone
1:05:16calls, but that she, if you remember the
1:05:19phone calls that they were getting at
1:05:20home where somebody they wouldn't
1:05:22actually just hang up, but somebody was
1:05:24on the other line and would never
1:05:25respond. But, she didn't think much of
1:05:28them. She did say that Darin, um
1:05:32when her neighbor, Karen
1:05:34Neil, her the nurse that lives directly
1:05:36across the street from them,
1:05:38had mentioned something to Darin about
1:05:40seeing this black car that she thought
1:05:41looked like it was just staring and
1:05:44looking at the rear of their home, when
1:05:47Darley is asked about this, she did say
1:05:49that Darin did not tell her about this
1:05:51black car.
1:05:53Um I kind of wonder if maybe Karen would
1:05:56have. I don't know, that's never been
1:05:57brought up. Now, as Mr. Shook talks
1:06:00about how
1:06:02how is it possible that one witness was
1:06:04left alive, Darley says that she's sure
1:06:09that he just thought that she was dead,
1:06:11which makes total sense.
1:06:13We then learn why Drake being in his
1:06:16crib and moving around a lot would keep
1:06:18Darley up. Um all of us have our own
1:06:21images, right? Of babies in cribs and
1:06:24what it sounds like when they move
1:06:25around and so forth and so on. Well, now
1:06:27we find out that the crib itself was on
1:06:30a hardwood floor and the crib was also
1:06:33on rollers. And yes, that would make
1:06:35quite a bit of noise, especially
1:06:37considering that Drake was a pretty good
1:06:39size kid for his age.
1:06:41When Mr. Shook begins to grill Darley
1:06:44about whether or not she would have
1:06:45defended her kids if she saw them being
1:06:48hurt,
1:06:49she does answer that she would, but then
1:06:52when asked if she would have yelled out
1:06:54or screamed, she mentions three times in
1:06:58separate questions, quote, "Unless my
1:07:01mouth was covered." Now, to me, this is
1:07:03kind of an odd answer to give. You know,
1:07:05maybe the defense wanted her to mention
1:07:07this. I don't know. I just know that
1:07:09every time she said this, I just
1:07:11thought, gosh, this just it just seems
1:07:13so
1:07:14odd, right? I don't know how else to put
1:07:16it.
1:07:17But, Darley then said that she did yell
1:07:20for Darin a couple of seconds after the
1:07:22guy had already walked out. Now,
1:07:25remember how Darin had said that he
1:07:26heard the glass break and that's
1:07:29initially what woke him up. And
1:07:31remember, he's upstairs. This is
1:07:33downstairs in the kitchen. This would
1:07:35have occurred before this yell that
1:07:39Darley said that she did, this yell for
1:07:41Darin, just seconds after the guy walked
1:07:44out of the room. So, why didn't Darin
1:07:47hear it?
1:07:48He could hear the glass.
1:07:50At least that's what he says. He could
1:07:52hear the glass all the way upstairs, but
1:07:54when Darley is in roughly the same
1:07:56location, he doesn't hear her.
1:07:58So, you know, did this even happen? Did
1:08:01Darley even actually yell for him once
1:08:04while she was in the kitchen? Or did it
1:08:07happen, but Darin is just not mentioning
1:08:11it? And just to play devil's advocate
1:08:14here a second, if if it were Darin and
1:08:18Darley did holler for him seconds after
1:08:20the guy left, he couldn't have answered
1:08:24because he wouldn't have heard her.
1:08:26But, he would have heard the glass break
1:08:28because he was there.
1:08:30Because the next thing that Darin says
1:08:32that he remembers was her screaming for
1:08:34or screaming Devon at the bottom of the
1:08:37stairs.
1:08:38So, again, just just something that
1:08:41popped into my head. It was just like,
1:08:42well, you know, maybe what if, right?
1:08:45All the what ifs.
1:08:47We then hear again about this guy,
1:08:48Glenn, who was interested in Basha or
1:08:51Barbara Jewell, and we learn that when
1:08:54Glenn's wife called, Darley told her
1:08:58what was going on and he became Glenn
1:09:00became very angry about this. He had
1:09:02called Darley and threatened her,
1:09:04evidently.
1:09:05Then, in a this what I would assume was
1:09:08an incredibly surprised move, the
1:09:11prosecution brings in Glenn and
1:09:14Detective Frosh at the same time because
1:09:16Darley has consistently said that the
1:09:18intruder had the same size and build as
1:09:21Detective Frosh. And then has Glenn and
1:09:24the detective stand right next to each
1:09:26other and evidently there were no real
1:09:29similarities in
1:09:31either height or stature between the
1:09:34two.
1:09:35Darley is then asked about when she
1:09:38spoke with Bill Parker at the Rowlett
1:09:40Police Department and this happened to
1:09:42be on the day that she was arrested.
1:09:46She is asked if Parker had asked her six
1:09:49times if she killed her children and she
1:09:53had said that quote if I did it I don't
1:09:55remember. She denies saying any of this.
1:09:59We also find out that at this point she
1:10:02has been Mirandized. So I'm not sure
1:10:05well I'm assuming that what the
1:10:07prosecutor is referring to are her
1:10:10statements or statements from Parker
1:10:12that Darley then told him after she had
1:10:17been Mirandized. So she's already been
1:10:19told hey you have the
1:10:22uh right to remain silent.
1:10:25You know get an attorney. We all know
1:10:27the Miranda rights, right? So from what
1:10:30I'm gathering from this is that she had
1:10:33been read her Miranda rights and then
1:10:35went ahead and still continued to answer
1:10:37questions for
1:10:39this Detective Parker at the Rowlett
1:10:41Police Department.
1:10:43And evidently that one of these
1:10:45statements that she had said or said
1:10:47multiple times was if I did it I don't
1:10:50remember.
1:10:51This is really all that they say. They
1:10:53don't bring out any recordings, they
1:10:55don't bring out any notation or notes,
1:10:57they don't
1:10:59he's never been on the stand. So I you
1:11:02know I'm just really not sure where
1:11:04they're going with this. I'm sure this
1:11:06will probably come up a little bit
1:11:07later. Again, I don't know. I'm just
1:11:09guessing.
1:11:10They then start talking about her
1:11:13written statement. Now this would be the
1:11:14statement that she wrote out the day
1:11:16that she was released from the hospital
1:11:18and the same day as the visitation for
1:11:21the boys.
1:11:22And he picks apart her written statement
1:11:25saying things like
1:11:27she didn't mention going to the kitchen
1:11:29sink but says that she told Detective
1:11:32Frost who was there in the house along
1:11:35with her and Darren and this is after
1:11:37the crime.
1:11:38And I believe Darren was with her and
1:11:40that she remembers going to the sink.
1:11:42And Mr. Shock then takes her back and
1:11:44forth about what she didn't put in her
1:11:47statement. Now remember this statement
1:11:49that he's talking about is when she's
1:11:51been taken directly from the hospital
1:11:53and she is supposed to go to the viewing
1:11:55of her boys.
1:11:57Just imagine if you're in that
1:11:58situation. You've just gotten released.
1:12:01You need to go to a viewing of your
1:12:04children
1:12:05and instead you are told nope you've got
1:12:08to come in and you've got to go down to
1:12:10the police department and you've got to
1:12:12give us this full written statement. And
1:12:14she says I believe that she was there
1:12:16for about 3 hours.
1:12:18But during part of this testimony she
1:12:20also talks about how she didn't know
1:12:23that a dry towel would work better than
1:12:26a wet towel for the wounds which you
1:12:28know I have to say is really a little
1:12:30hard to believe.
1:12:32But the rest of her statement
1:12:34where
1:12:36Mr. Shock picks apart everything that
1:12:38she didn't put in there, I get it. If
1:12:42you've ever read any of the books by
1:12:45John Douglas who happens to be a former
1:12:49FBI agent
1:12:50um
1:12:51he's probably best known for his work
1:12:54in criminal psychology and profiling.
1:12:58He does talk about
1:13:00crime scene reactions and how there's a
1:13:03variety of different ways that people
1:13:06will respond.
1:13:07And one of them is called stress and
1:13:09trauma.
1:13:11And says that high levels of stress and
1:13:13trauma can impair memory encoding and
1:13:17retrieval.
1:13:18He explains that the brain the way that
1:13:20the brain works is it prioritizes
1:13:23survival
1:13:25over detailed memory formation during
1:13:28life-threatening situations.
1:13:30He also says that this can lead to
1:13:34incomplete or altered memories with some
1:13:36details being more accessible than
1:13:39others. I know that there is a lot of
1:13:41people
1:13:42who are you're either on the for Darley
1:13:45side or the against Darley side but one
1:13:48of the biggest arguments has always been
1:13:50that hey her statements are very
1:13:53inconsistent and
1:13:55yes this may be true. Um but so are
1:13:59Darren's.
1:14:00And
1:14:02the thing is is that
1:14:04nobody is going to remember the same
1:14:06situation exactly the same way.
1:14:10Now am I giving anybody a pass at this
1:14:12point? No. I am just
1:14:15making a point that I'm trying to remain
1:14:18right now as as middle of the road as I
1:14:21possibly can and just try and remain as
1:14:25objective about all of this as I
1:14:27possibly can. And the thing is is that
1:14:31yes I mean it's it's going to differ no
1:14:34matter I mean 20 people can view like
1:14:37the same car accident and you will have
1:14:39a 20 different versions as to what
1:14:41happened in that car accident and
1:14:44everybody will believe that their
1:14:45version is 100% absolutely the correct
1:14:49way that everything happened.
1:14:51So I just kind of wanted to put that out
1:14:53there.
1:14:54But the bottom line is I know I'm sure
1:14:56I've said this before. Um as a matter of
1:14:59fact I know I have.
1:15:00But Mr. Shock this prosecutor
1:15:04you know this guy I'll tell you his he
1:15:06has one goal one and that is to win this
1:15:10case. He doesn't care how he does it. He
1:15:14just wants to win. So he will pick apart
1:15:17everything that he can possibly think of
1:15:19even the fact that she doesn't have
1:15:21vacuums in a closet is something to be
1:15:26argued about and brought up in front of
1:15:27the jury for some reason.
1:15:30And anyway
1:15:31just my little opinion.
1:15:33I've also said before he creeps me out
1:15:35still does.
1:15:37Just not getting a great vibe from this
1:15:39guy. So anyhow I've talked long enough.
1:15:41That will do it for this episode. Thank
1:15:43you. Thank you all for listening and
1:15:45please take a moment to subscribe to the
1:15:48channel no matter where you listen. And
1:15:50also be sure to check out the new
1:15:51beachhouse34 merch shop at beachhouse34
1:15:55and that's 34 the numbers 34.shop.
1:15:59Thanks again everyone. We will talk
1:16:01really really soon. Bye for now.

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