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Treasury Steps In, Gold Surges: Is the Debt Crisis Entering a New Phase? | Brien Lundin — Transcript

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0:00when a bubble has gotten this [music]
0:01large, they don't usually resolve
0:03themselves in an orderly fashion. So,
0:06there is something that it looks like
0:08gold is sensing that's coming [music]
0:09up. And I think you want to be on the
0:11side of gold in this and you want to own
0:14gold.
0:14>> There is a crisis of sorts on the
0:18horizon. What actually breaks? What is
0:22[music] the capital?
0:23>> There'll be a hell of a buying
0:24opportunity. Everything will be thrown
0:26out. Everything will be sold. the baby
0:28will be thrown out of the bathwater and
0:30gold and mining stocks and [music]
0:32silver will suffer. But as we've seen in
0:35past crises, that window of opportunity
0:38opens and then closes very quickly. In
0:40the next crisis, they are going to do
0:43[music] far more than they did in CO.
0:45And what they did in CO was far more
0:48than they did with the great financial
0:50crisis in 2008. [music]
0:52and the addict in this case has
0:54developed a tolerance to the drug of
0:56easier money. So the dosage has to be
0:58[music] much greater to get the same
1:00effect.
1:01>> Fort Knox has come up in conversation
1:04[music]
1:04an unusual amount for any
1:07administration. So there's some in the
1:10gold circle saying that perhaps some
1:12part of the administration is preparing
1:15for gold to play a larger role in the
1:17global monetary system.
1:18>> So who was buying all that gold? I
1:20contend that it's very possible that the
1:23US [music] itself was trying to put gold
1:25into the vaults that was supposed to be
1:26there. I [music] think there's a good
1:28chance we get very close to $5,000, if
1:31not above it, before the end of the
1:33year. You have a what I think is a
1:36window [music] of opportunity to get
1:37involved in a multi-year bull market,
1:40probably the biggest and best, most
1:42profitable bull market we've ever seen
1:44in gold, silver, and mining equities.
1:46>> When do we hit tripledigit silver again?
1:49So if there is a monetary reset and gold
1:53works its way back into the global
1:54monetary system, you're saying that that
1:56is ultimately not good for solv.
2:00>> No.
2:03>> This [music] is the real story with
2:05Michelle McCori.
2:10>> Hello, I'm Michelle McCrory. Thank you
2:12so much for [music] joining us.
2:14Something very interesting just happened
2:16in the Treasury market. Long-term yields
2:18have been surging [music] with the
2:2030-year Treasury yield hitting 5.34%,
2:24its highest level since 2007. Then the
2:28Treasury stepped in, announcing that it
2:30would at least double the size of
2:32certain buybacks of longerdated
2:34treasuries from $2 billion to at least
2:37$4 billion per operation. Yields dropped
2:40and gold popped. Now, to be clear, the
2:43Fed is not printing the money. So,
2:46technically, this is not QE. But here
2:49are the bigger questions that this
2:50brings up. Are we beginning to discover
2:53the level of long-term interest rates
2:55that Washington simply cannot tolerate?
2:58And if Treasury buybacks are not enough,
3:01does the Fed have to step in sooner or
3:04later with a new form of QE? Now, for
3:07years, we've watched gold largely
3:09through the lens of the Fed. But
3:11increasingly, is gold trading less on
3:13what the Fed does next and more on what
3:16governments ultimately have to do about
3:18their debt? Now, with the US debt
3:20closing in on $40 trillion, persistent
3:23deficits, rising interest costs, and
3:25enormous refinancing needs. Is gold
3:28already sniffing out? What comes next?
3:32Joining me now to discuss this and more
3:34is Brian Lundine. He is the editor and
3:37publisher of the gold newsletter, one of
3:39the world's longestrunn precious metals
3:41investment publications. He has been at
3:44the helm since 1993 and has spent
3:47roughly four decades analyzing gold and
3:50monetary policy and the mining sector.
3:52And he's also the president and CEO of
3:55the New Orleans Investment Conference,
3:57one of the longest running investment
3:59conferences focused on precious metals,
4:02hard money, and natural resources.
4:04Brian, great to have you. Welcome.
4:07>> Great to be with you as always,
4:08Michelle.
4:10>> Brian, a lot to discuss, but let's kick
4:12things off with this development that we
4:14just saw in the Treasury market.
4:16Long-term yields have been surging with
4:18the 30-year Treasury yield hitting
4:205.34%,
4:21its highest level since 2007, right
4:24before the 2008 financial crisis. And
4:27then Treasury Secretary announced that
4:30it will at least double the size of its
4:31buybacks of longerdated treasuries from
4:35two billion to at least four billion per
4:37operation covering the 10 to 30ear
4:40sector. Now uh the Treasury says that
4:42this increase is intended to quote
4:44provide greater liquidity support in
4:47longer dated nominal sectors. So help
4:51the viewers understand what happened
4:53here. simplify this for us and give us
4:56your analysis of what you make of this
4:58move.
4:58>> Yeah, and I think we need to to go back
5:01a little bit, look at the background of
5:03all of this as to why Treasury yields
5:06were rising. And it wasn't just the
5:07dollar. It wasn't just Treasury yields.
5:09It's sovereign yields across the globe,
5:12all the developed economies, the same
5:14thing. We had longdated yields rising to
5:18levels not seen since wow not 2008 2009
5:23going back to the great financial
5:25crisis. So what's happened is investors
5:29uh they're not responding to
5:30inflationary pressures. We see that that
5:34uh inflation break evens are around the
5:37the Fed's target of around 2% or so. The
5:40market's not worried about inflation
5:42right now. What they are worried about
5:45is debt and debt repayments and and how
5:49governments are going to pay back those
5:50debts. You know, you mentioned that um
5:53the US federal debt was closing in on 40
5:56trillion. Well, I can tell you that
5:58almost as we're speaking, it just rolled
6:01over 40 trillion. And and I think that's
6:04what's happening. I think the markets, I
6:06think investors, I think uh uh Treasury
6:09and sovereign uh security investors are
6:12worried about debt and deficits. And
6:15what the the Fed is doing, what the
6:18Treasury is doing actually right now
6:19with with Secretary Basant isn't so much
6:23what they're doing or the degree that
6:24they're doing. Going from two billion to
6:26four billion is doubling what is really
6:29a a drop in the bucket. It's going from
6:31one drop to two drops. It's really the
6:34signal that the Treasury is giving is in
6:37that it's willing to go in and uh pull
6:41the levers on yields to on to control
6:45yields and to bring them back. Um and
6:48and it's actually willing to pay more to
6:50do that. It's buying uh paper that was
6:54issued when uh when treasuries were
6:58interest rates were close to zero and
7:00it's funding that by creating more
7:03short-term paper at today's much higher
7:05interest rates. So it's it is actually
7:08creating money to okay
7:10>> buy back these longdated uh securities
7:14and it's paying more interest uh at the
7:16end to do so
7:18>> right uh and it's a distinction that
7:21it's the Treasury not the Fed but
7:23ultimately those roads all lead to the
7:26same direction and the same destination
7:28potentially. So let's zoom out here and
7:32why don't you give us your central
7:35investment thesis right now and
7:36obviously this development plays a part
7:40in that. So give give me the big picture
7:42here.
7:43>> Yeah the the underlying driver of this
7:45bull market uh really it's it's two
7:47things. Central banks started buying
7:49gold to start this bull market uh couple
7:52of years ago and and they were primarily
7:55concerned about two things security.
7:58They wanted to protect themselves from
8:00dollar hegemony, the weaponization of
8:03the dollar and I believe they also had
8:05one eye on uh the size of debt and
8:09[clears throat] deficits in uh in the
8:11world and the US in particular. What
8:13they realized is any any sovereign paper
8:17right now and in particular any treasury
8:20securities are going to be paid off in
8:22dollars that are much cheaper than uh
8:25the dollars that are existent today. So
8:28looking at that they decided to protect
8:31themselves to hedge themselves dy by
8:34moving from treasury securities into
8:36gold. Uh and we see that gold has
8:39replaced uh has surpassed the euro and
8:43then it now has now surpassed treasuries
8:46as the primary component or the largest
8:48component of sovereign reserves. That's
8:52what was driving the market to begin
8:53with. We see that about a year ago that
8:56western investors came into the market
8:59when the Fed uh started to signal rate
9:02cuts ahead. Now, it's been a bumpy road
9:04since then. We've seen more volatility
9:07as Western investors have gotten in
9:09involved. We've seen stunning rallies.
9:12We've seen stomach turning drops. And uh
9:16over this summer, we've seen the first
9:18extended correction in gold. Now, that's
9:21reversing. We're seeing Western
9:23investors coming back into the market.
9:26We saw it throughout that correction
9:28that central banks continue to buy and
9:30provide support to the market. But right
9:32now, we're seeing Western investors
9:34coming back in and they're going to
9:36provide the fuel for the next rally.
9:39>> Okay. Well, a couple uh of points to
9:42break down there, but let's start off
9:45with
9:46this potential mentality shift that
9:50we're seeing here. So instead of
9:52typically higher yields equals bad for
9:55gold,
9:56>> it seems like we're increasingly having
9:58higher yields um because of sovereign
10:01risk equals good for gold in a way. So
10:06>> the the the investors, the bond
10:09vigilantes, if you will, the the ones
10:11that are buying Treasury securities now
10:15are demanding higher returns in the face
10:18of that risk that they see, the risk of
10:21uh repayment in dollars that resemble
10:26even closely resemble the dollars of
10:28today. So the reasons why yields are
10:31rising are the same reasons why
10:33investors are buying gold. It's actually
10:35bullish for gold right now. And we see
10:37throughout history that gold has risen
10:40many times when yields were rising. We
10:42see in the 1970s yields were rising. Uh
10:45but the yields were trailing the
10:48inflation rate and the reasons to buy
10:50gold were the same. Now we we're in a
10:53bizarro world these days where u because
10:57western investors are so uh hyperfocused
11:01on Fed policy that anything that looks
11:04like higher inflation
11:07uh and thus more hawkish Fed policy is
11:11bearish for all risk assets and they
11:14throw gold into that. they lump gold in
11:17with all the other risk assets and sell
11:19gold off for the same reasons. Now,
11:22however, we're we're seeing that kind of
11:24shift. We're seeing that the the the
11:28risk in sovereign paper, the risk in
11:31treasuries uh is hedged by higher yields
11:35and hedged by buying gold. So, uh it it
11:39was interesting today. You know, we had
11:40kind of a microcosm today with the
11:42announcement. Gold went up over 4%
11:45today. Uh we saw a rally start in uh US
11:50equities. All of the big US equity
11:53indices soared at the beginning of the
11:55the trading session, but that rally
11:58petered out. They they ended up uh far
12:01off their highs. Gold instead
12:03accelerated as the session advanced. So
12:06I I think what we're seeing is
12:09a uh real as you mentioned changing of
12:12sentiment right now and gold looks like
12:15the winner. The one way with silver and
12:18associated investments the best way to
12:21to play this risk in in sovereign debt
12:25issuance.
12:26>> You know it's interesting because gold
12:30is a barometer. You know, Greenspan said
12:32that gold tells you what's really
12:34happening with the markets. Uh so what
12:37is gold sniffing out? Because you've got
12:38an equity market that has reached
12:41extraordinary valuations. You have this
12:44enormous AI investment boom. You've got
12:46governments issuing enormous quantities
12:48of debt. You've got investors demanding
12:51greater compensation to own longduration
12:53sovereign bonds. What do you think gold
12:56is actually sniffing out here before the
12:59rest of the market really catches on?
13:01>> Yeah. Uh Michelle, you're you're keying
13:04off one of the things that I've been
13:05writing about actually that gold is
13:07sniffing something out because you know
13:10all of the investment markets are
13:11predictive mechanisms. They look ahead
13:13and and try to discount the future by in
13:16in current prices. I think the most
13:19sensitive of these markets are really
13:21bonds and gold and they're both sending
13:24us a signal right now. Rising yields and
13:26bonds uh you know absent whatever the
13:28Fed tried to do or the Treasury tried to
13:31do today. um yields have been rising,
13:35gold has been rising and at the same
13:38time we see uh the US equity market
13:41driven by this AI mania has reached on
13:45the Buffett indicator market cap divided
13:47by uh GDP
13:49uh heights it never reached before
13:51heights it didn't reach in the the tech
13:53boom uh or any other other bubble in uh
13:58in history. So that reached a a a high
14:01really in May and has started to roll
14:03out that rolled over in that indicator.
14:07We also see the Fed starting to do its
14:10own little version of quantitative
14:12easing u uh boosting its balance sheet
14:16once again. And again we see what what
14:18the Treasury did today. So the
14:22the Fed the Treasury are sensing some
14:26some sensitivity. that are having some
14:28sensitivity to some perhaps impending
14:30crisis or liquidity issues right now. Uh
14:34we see the stock market valuations that
14:36recently reached all-time highs starting
14:39to roll over. When we see these kinds of
14:41rollovers, they don't usually resolve
14:44themselves when a bubble has gotten this
14:46large. They don't usually resolve
14:48themselves in an orderly fashion. So
14:51there there is something that it it
14:54looks like gold is sensing that's coming
14:56up and u you know I think you want to be
14:59on the side of of gold in this and you
15:02want to own gold. Now, if there is an
15:04event coming up like we saw in the in
15:082008, like we saw in CO, there will be a
15:12liquidity vacuum. There'll be a hell of
15:14a buying opportunity. Uh everything will
15:16be thrown out, you know, everything will
15:18be sold. The baby will be thrown out of
15:20the bathwater and gold and mining stocks
15:23and silver will suffered. But as we've
15:26seen in past crises, that window of
15:29opportunity opens and then closes very
15:31quickly. uh the market rebounds, at
15:33least gold and and commodities and
15:36things that would benefit in an easier
15:38money environment rebound very quickly
15:41because the market investors they all
15:44know that uh the central banks, the Fed
15:47leading the charge will come in with a
15:49massive rescue effort and in the next
15:51crisis they are going to do far more
15:55than they did in CO and what they did in
15:57CO was far more than they did with the
16:00great financial crisis. in 2008 and
16:03that's because the the markets the
16:06addict in this case uh has grown a
16:09tolerance has developed a tolerance to
16:11the drug of easier money. So the dosage
16:14has to be much greater to get the same
16:16effect.
16:18>> Right. Yeah. You're developing uh a
16:20tolerance and that's uh an analogy that
16:23many of the guests on the show have
16:26used. Um, of course the the so there is
16:29an event coming up in your assessment.
16:31There is a crisis of sorts on the
16:34horizon. Um, talk me through that. What
16:37actually breaks? What is the catalyst?
16:41That's always the difficult question
16:42here. Is it the bond market? Is it an
16:44AIdriven equity correction? Is is it
16:46private credit? Is it something we
16:48haven't even factored yet? What do you
16:50think is is the likely
16:53uh run of events here?
16:55>> Yeah. You know the what happens because
16:58central banks and and again the Fed
17:00leading in the US economy, the issuer of
17:03the world global reserve currency
17:06usually leads the charge. But what they
17:08do through these easy money policies is
17:10they eventually blow up bubbles. Uh and
17:14these bubbles are they float around in
17:17search of a pin. We look for what the
17:19catalyst will be, but it's rare that
17:22anyone ever picks it or or few ever pick
17:24it. It usually comes out of left field.
17:27We usually don't find out what trips the
17:30market up. Sometimes it trips over its
17:32own weight as these uh overvaluations
17:35and disequilib equilibriums get so
17:39extreme. So uh the the cause, the
17:42catalyst and even the timing are the
17:45really the tough things to pick. What we
17:48can do and the only thing we can do
17:51really is to identify the trend. We know
17:54that the market's overvalued. Well, it
17:56can remain overvalued for much longer
17:59than we think. Um, and it can plot along
18:02at these levels and even reach new
18:05levels of overvaluation. But you have to
18:08recognize those trends. You have to get
18:10your hedges in place. You have to look
18:12at the macro picture and see what it
18:14favors. Right now there is no and really
18:18over the past few years there's been no
18:20uh plausible scenario no major turning
18:25point in either direction that isn't in
18:28favor of gold as a hedge because debt
18:31levels are so high. We know that
18:34currencies will have to be depreciated
18:36at a ever greater rate going forward.
18:40Gold hedges against that. uh if there is
18:43a financial crisis that demands uh even
18:47greater levels of of intervention by
18:50central banks uh in other words easier
18:53money gold benefits from that uh if
18:56there's we plot along and along these
18:59trends and the bubble gets ever larger
19:01and uh we still maintain fairly good
19:04growth rates in these economies. gold
19:08still benefits from that because the
19:10need to hedge is is remains and there's
19:12even more money out there to hedge with
19:14it. So, it it really is a a generational
19:20opportunity right now in in metals and
19:23well in the monetary metals gold and
19:25silver and in the investments assoc
19:28associated with that. It's important for
19:31investors even as it's important for
19:33sovereigns to hedge uh to buy their
19:36insurance against whatever may come by
19:39owning the the monetary metals of gold
19:41and silver. But it's also important to
19:45invest in these sectors uh because the
19:48macro picture argues for much higher
19:50prices. So, you know, it's it's
19:52important to leverage your hedges,
19:54leverage gold and silver through mining
19:58stocks and uh is the primary way to do
20:01that. And I think that's a a
20:03generational opportunity for investors
20:05right now because I think the mining
20:08stocks don't really reflect where the
20:10metals are, much less where they're
20:12going.
20:13>> Uh a generational opportunity. Okay.
20:16before we get into the mining stocks
20:19because you've called this a
20:20generational opportunity and uh you've
20:22lived through uh multiple gold and
20:25commodity cycles. We won't call it
20:27multiple generations, but you've
20:29certainly lived through multiple
20:30[laughter]
20:31you've lived through and experienced
20:33multiple gold and commodity cycles.
20:37Does anything about this one feel
20:39genuinely different to you?
20:41>> Because we have to be careful when we
20:43say, "Oh, but this time is different.
20:45talk us through that. Give give us that.
20:47>> Yeah, those are the most dangerous words
20:48in in investing. This time is different
20:51because uh they they always prove to be
20:54somewhat similar but there every bull
20:57market is somewhat different. There are
20:59defining characteristics, different
21:01characteristics because history doesn't
21:03repeat and lock step. It it rhymes. So
21:07uh so yeah, every every bubble gets
21:10burst eventually. That's one of the big
21:12similarities. But the big difference in
21:15this gold bull market is the fact that
21:18it was driven caused and driven in its
21:21first year 18 months or so by central
21:24bank buying.
21:25>> And what happened because of that is
21:27that we didn't have any real corrections
21:30by price. uh the excesses were resolved
21:34via time when and gold would have very
21:38powerful rallies then it would go uh
21:41trade in a range for a period of time
21:43and then take off in another rally and
21:46because central banks don't buy silver
21:49and they don't buy mining stocks the
21:52traditional levers to the gold price uh
21:55those traditional levers remained in the
21:57doldrum so we had a long time to buy
22:00mining stocks to buy silver and wait for
22:03them to eventually leverage the gold
22:06move. That started to happen about a
22:08year ago. And that happened again as the
22:10western investors saw that the Fed was
22:14going to try to start lowering rates uh
22:17back when chairman Pal stepped in front
22:19of the podium at the at Jackson Hole. Um
22:22and then we had a big rally in the
22:24metals. they finally came in and we
22:27evolved into more of a traditional bull
22:29market where we have uh more volatility
22:34uh but but that western investors are
22:36really setting the price and um you know
22:40and and that's going to cause us to
22:43really
22:44as bulls as investors in the sector
22:47we're going to have to uh maintain our
22:49conviction and keep an eye on the long
22:51term. Uh but this bull market is is
22:54different. Uh the the central bank
22:57buying that was driving the price higher
23:00initially now it's evolved in more of a
23:03support to the underlying trend. I don't
23:06think it's going to be really driving
23:07the price uh higher. That's going to
23:10come as as again as these western
23:13investors flow in and out of the market
23:16as these huge uh oceans of liquidity
23:19slosh around the world and event and
23:21occasionally slush into our sector bring
23:24valuations much higher that importantly
23:27is happening right now as we speak.
23:30>> Before we continue the conversation with
23:32Brian I'd just like to take a moment to
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24:47[email protected].
24:50All right, now back to the conversation
24:52with Brian Lundine.
24:55So you're saying that central banks
24:57maintain the support level here, but
24:59what really accelerates this is western
25:03investors
25:04>> catching a wake up as to what's going
25:06on. Are you talking I mean we we did at
25:09the beginning of the year have Wall
25:10Street come out with the debasement
25:12trade, right? Saying that the
25:14traditional 6040 portfolio uh is dead.
25:18you had uh the likes of uh Morgan
25:21Stanley for one saying you know you need
25:23to allocate more to hard assets
25:25including gold and bitcoin we'll get
25:26into bitcoin uh but that seems to have
25:29faded um when you say western investors
25:32talk us through that talk us through the
25:34institutions that still need to increase
25:37their exposure to gold and to the metals
25:40industry as well as the retail investors
25:42and how you see that playing out
25:44>> yeah uh western institution alloc
25:47applications to gold are still very
25:50small. I mean they they typically and
25:54really the median in a bull market is
25:56about 4% and we're hovering around a
26:00quarter to a half percent roughly
26:02speaking of allocations to the sector.
26:04Uh so that has a long way to go and and
26:08a big part of what we see today is even
26:11more volatility than we ever saw before
26:13because you have so much algorithmic
26:15trading, so much blackbox trading. Um
26:19and and so when the black boxes when the
26:22algos detect a change in momentum, they
26:25really start to shift into the market
26:27and we see the allocations come in.
26:29That's starting to happen right now. But
26:32the central bank buying as a support, I
26:34mean, let's think about how central
26:36banks buy. They they don't try to time
26:39the market. They don't all of a sudden
26:42uh uh buy when the price goes on
26:46discount or they don't follow the trend
26:47and buy more and the price goes higher.
26:49They don't behave emotionally like
26:52investors tend to do. uh they buy by by
26:57putting out allocations over a certain
26:59period whether it be monthly or
27:00quarterly or even annually they're going
27:02to allocate a certain amount of money.
27:05So in effect it's dollar cost averaging.
27:07When the price goes up that allocation
27:10buys less tonnage of gold. Uh when the
27:13price goes down that allocation buys
27:16more gold, more physical gold. So that's
27:19why it acts as a support underneath the
27:22market. If the price drops, more gold
27:23gets bought. Uh so really it's it's the
27:26best of all worlds. I mean we started
27:29off this market with central bank buying
27:32that that really dominated drove the
27:34price higher and still gave us a lot of
27:36time to get involved in the levers to a
27:39traditional gold bull market. And now
27:41it's cushioning the falls and
27:43maintaining the uptrend because that
27:46buying is constant and consistent and
27:48and actually even growing.
27:51Okay. So, a a couple of factors
27:54obviously uh supporting all of this. Uh
27:57I want to go back to the Fed because
27:59right or wrong, gold price has been
28:03viewed through the lens of the Fed
28:05typically. And in one of your recent
28:07newsletters, you wrote that one of the
28:09biggest mistakes that the market is
28:11making is expecting a hawkish Fed here.
28:15So, talk us through that. Yeah, you
28:18know, they they simply can't afford to
28:21raise rates with debt and deficits this
28:24high. Uh we on a fiscal year basis,
28:27we've already just exceeded uh the
28:31deficit for all of last year and we
28:33still have on a fiscal year basis again
28:35two more months to go. Uh so it's much
28:39higher than it was then. And what has
28:41yet to be factored in are the costs of
28:44the war of Iran and replacing all those
28:46bombs and missiles, which you know
28:48they're doing uh as quickly as they can
28:52and and writing whatever checks they
28:54need to uh and will write whatever
28:56checks they need to to do that. Uh so it
28:59is another guns and butter environment.
29:02The deficit is going to be significantly
29:03higher this year. Uh and the uh debt
29:07service costs are going to be
29:08significantly higher this year. About
29:101.2 trillion or more just to service the
29:14debt. That's more than we're spending on
29:15national defense. Uh probably at this
29:18point more than we spend on on uh on
29:20Medicare. So
29:23the trajectory is only steepening. the
29:26that story debt and deficits is is only
29:30getting uh you know more extreme um
29:34going forward that's going to be the the
29:37big driver for this gold bull market and
29:40I think that's what the the big concern
29:43is you know we we talked about the uh
29:46the national debt already going over 40
29:49trillion uh it's going much higher and
29:52much more quickly than anybody really
29:55has has been any of the the mainstream
29:58media has been forecasting. And if you
30:00look in the headlines today even and if
30:02you look at uh the analyses from
30:04mainstream uh economists and mainstream
30:07media as they try to divine why uh
30:12Secretary Bant has taken this effort to
30:14start to control yields. They aren't
30:17talking about inflation fears. They
30:19aren't talking about anything but debt
30:21and deficits finally having an impact on
30:24the market. And and again, the Fed can't
30:28because of this, the Fed cannot hike
30:30rates. They they can't afford to because
30:33the cost the debt service costs rise uh
30:36tremendously with every small increase
30:39uh in interest rates. So, you know, the
30:41the whole idea that the Fed is going to
30:43certainly suddenly become hawkish, I
30:46think it's been the big um uh the big
30:51error in the markets over the last few
30:53months.
30:55>> So, what are your expectations then in
30:57terms of the likely next move from the
30:59Fed? Is it that they go on? Yeah, I I
31:02don't think, you know, I I I thought for
31:05a while that they might uh try to have
31:08one uh um one rate cut, one quarter
31:12point rate cut just for appearances. Uh
31:15but I don't think they can even do that
31:16now.
31:17>> Wait, a cut or or a height?
31:20>> A quarter point hike just for
31:22appearances. But uh you know Wash was
31:26put in place by President Trump for one
31:31thing and one thing only. He had one job
31:33and that job is to cut rates. Uh and you
31:37know down here in the American South we
31:39have a saying that you have to dance
31:41with the one that br you. And uh and
31:44Trump brought Wash into that job and uh
31:48and he's going to do as he is told. Uh I
31:51thought it was really uh interesting
31:53that after Walsh's first uh press
31:56conference where he gotten in front of
32:00the audience and was uh maintaining that
32:03the Fed is is really has job one to
32:05fight in inflation and they were going
32:07to be very diligent in the fight against
32:10inflation and it was a very hawkish
32:12speech, a hawkish presentation. Um yet
32:15post that we we saw Trump remain
32:18absolutely silent. We didn't hear repeat
32:21from him and I I don't know if you've
32:23noticed but he's rarely uh uh quiet
32:27about anything and rarely refrains his
32:30opinion. [clears throat] But in that
32:31case his silence was deafening and I
32:33think indicative that
32:34>> the whole episode was was merely theater
32:37for uh the consumption by the markets
32:40and the masses. um and that underlying
32:43all of that his job is still eventually
32:45to cut rates and you know that's why he
32:49was put in the the position but I also
32:51maintain that the simple math of the
32:54debt and the deficit
32:56uh precludes him from doing anything but
32:59uh reverting to an easier money policy.
33:03>> Right. And you know, we've had, you
33:04know, guests on the show that say, well,
33:06that's exactly what these task forces
33:09are for, that they will come up with
33:11some creative new way to calculate
33:14inflation and uh that will give the
33:17cover to to cut rates at some point,
33:21which is, you know, arguably what he's
33:23there to do. Uh you had a very
33:26interesting thing about inflation in one
33:27of your recent newsletters and we'll
33:29we'll pull up the chart um in
33:31post-prouction, but you talked about how
33:33Campbell soup is actually a very good
33:36indicator of of CPI.
33:40>> Yeah. You know, if and and it's a
33:42long-term indicator because, you know,
33:44they've had Campbell Soup has been
33:47around since the 20s or 1920s or
33:50thereabouts. So it's a long that the
33:53price and it also accounts for
33:55shrinkflation you know when the quantity
33:58that you buy uh is is reduced um we know
34:03that the inflation rate is considerably
34:06higher than what the government reports
34:09over the decades the the government
34:11itself is has uh manipulated how it
34:15calculates the CPI and just
34:17coincidentally I'm sure every change
34:20that they've ever had in the CPI uh ends
34:23up reducing the rate of inflation. Uh it
34:27it has occurred to me that if you were a
34:30government economist somewhere buried in
34:32that bureaucracy and you had uh uh an
34:36idea or you figured out that there was
34:39some error in the CPI and you put forth
34:43that this fix that would raise the
34:46inflation rate that your career would be
34:48uh pretty much at a dead end. Uh it it's
34:53every everything the government does to
34:55report inflation, every change it makes,
34:58every so-called improvement ends up
35:00reducing the uh the reported rate of
35:03inflation. So the bias is there. It's
35:06undeniable. And we know that the actual
35:09inflation rate is much higher than what
35:10they're telling us right now. Um and and
35:14that's what Worsh is has admitted that
35:16he's going to do. They're going to have
35:19these task forces examine uh the
35:23reported rate of inflation and and try
35:25to redefine inflation. They want to
35:27bring productivity into the mix uh in
35:31the calculation and um and it's it's
35:34going to be, you know, they already have
35:36a uh an indicator that is that that they
35:40use that's not the CPI uh the deflator
35:43that they use. And now they're going to
35:46fiddle with that again and come up with
35:47some other redefinition of inflation.
35:50The bottom line is that things are much
35:52worse than they're telling us.
35:54>> Uh and uh and I and I think we have to
35:57take their signals. Again, what the
35:59Treasury Secretary did today is a signal
36:02and the market took it as such. Uh and
36:05they they took it and they reacted by
36:08buying gold and silver.
36:11>> Uh right. And you know that signal um is
36:15that at some point as you say there is
36:18an expectation that we will have the Fed
36:22having to step in with QE even though as
36:25we've discussed there's been forms of QE
36:28light along the way. Um, we we had Frank
36:30Gustra on the show recently and he says
36:35that all it's going to take is one more
36:38round of real QE
36:41and that is essentially the end of the
36:43dollar. Not immediately, but that is the
36:46domino that tips us into this monetary
36:50reset. a real a real QE round and I'll
36:54probably label it something else, some
36:55kind of semantic, but something akin to
36:57what we had in 2008 and in 2020 and he
37:02has a fiveyear timeline uh that this
37:05happens in and that is over over for for
37:10the dollar and the global financial
37:11system as we know it. What do you make
37:12of that assessment?
37:14>> Yeah, I I think Frank is absolutely
37:16right on on the trend. I think he joins
37:19another friend of mine, Peter Schiff,
37:20and saying that the next one's the big
37:22one and that's the end of the dollar. Uh
37:25I I don't know that they, as smart as
37:30they are, um because I'm probably I know
37:33I'm going to run into them down the road
37:35a bit, so I don't want to cast any
37:38aspersions on their intelligence. I
37:39think they're right on target, but
37:41really I don't know that anyone can
37:44predict that this episode will be the
37:46one that kills off the dollar. And I
37:48don't think it's just a dollar story. I
37:51think it's a broader story. I think it's
37:53a fiat currency story. There other
37:56developed economies are much are in a
38:00similar situation. Some like Japan are
38:02even further down the road. Uh so I
38:05think it's going to be a loss of
38:07credibility in fiat currencies. I think
38:10each one of these episodes, each one of
38:12these crises
38:15uh erodess the credibility of currencies
38:19uh a bit more and uh because the people
38:23know that with the next crisis that the
38:26central banks are going to create a
38:28whole lot more currency, a lot more
38:30liquidity and they're going to start
38:32more and more preparing for that, buying
38:34gold, silver, other hedges. Uh and as
38:39these crises come, whether it's the next
38:42one or the one after that or the one
38:43after that, each one erodess that
38:45credibility. At what point do we get to
38:48the breaking point where fiat currencies
38:51in general lose uh essentially all of
38:54their credibility in the markets? I
38:57don't know where that comes. I don't
38:58know if it's the the next crisis or the
39:00one after that or the one after that. I
39:03can tell you that I started talking
39:04about the debasement trade, although I
39:07wasn't smart enough to to give it a
39:10label like that like Wall Street did,
39:12but I started talking about that
39:14debasement trade easily a decade ago.
39:18Um, but so the timing is difficult. you
39:21know, we don't know when uh the ultimate
39:26end will come, but we can recognize the
39:29trend and we can invest accordingly. Uh
39:33and we know that that trend is for an
39:36ever quicker depreciation of fiat
39:40currencies. What do you do in that
39:42situation? Well, you buy gold and you
39:46buy silver and buy the associated
39:49investments that leverage those moves.
39:52Um, so yeah, I I would not disagree. I
39:55would not say that Frank or Peter are
39:59wrong. Uh, but they are I would
40:02definitely say they are right in the
40:04direction. Um, and again the timing is
40:07the tough part.
40:09>> Timing is always the tough part. But we
40:11do know that if we look historically,
40:13every you know global reserve currency
40:17has its day and then crashes. We've seen
40:19the cycle repeat uh over history. I
40:22always like to point out that there was
40:24a time when the Portuguese a scooter was
40:26the global reserve currency of the world
40:28when when Portugal was a leading empire.
40:30So, we do have the historical reference,
40:34but then we also have this idea that
40:36somehow they've managed to extend this
40:38runaway, that they've managed to kick
40:39the can down the road further than we
40:41thought because for the longest time
40:43people have been saying it's the next
40:44one, it's the next one. Certainly not
40:46something that I I'm rooting for because
40:48although it'll be good for the price of
40:49gold, it's going to be very ugly when
40:51that actually does happen. Um, but you
40:54know, that that runway can be extended.
40:57But, you know, arguably this all began
41:011971, August 15th, uh, when President
41:05Nixon closed the gold window. And we
41:07just had the, uh, 55th anniversary, if
41:11you will, of President Nixon closing the
41:13gold window in 1971, effectively ending
41:16the dollar's convertability into gold.
41:19And you wrote about this in your recent
41:21newsletter, and you had some provocative
41:24takes. They're very interesting. One,
41:26you said that Nixon actually gets a bad
41:29rap
41:30>> because the die was cast before he ever
41:32took office.
41:34>> And two, that Nixon may ultimately be
41:36proven right because he said that the
41:38move was temporary and that he may be
41:41right on that one. So explain that to
41:44us.
41:45>> Yeah. And and interestingly, gold
41:47newsletter essentially was founded on
41:49that same day because our founder Jim
41:52Blanchard uh who was an icon in the
41:54industry and helped get gold legalized
41:56in the US was instrumental in getting
41:58that done. He listened to Nixon's uh
42:02address and knew what was going to
42:03happen and he started uh uh at the time
42:06it was illegal to own gold. You you
42:08could not own gold bullion. It was up
42:10there with you know plutonium and and
42:13heroin. uh you know you illegal to own
42:16which was ridiculous and he recognized
42:18that people needed to be able to own
42:21gold to protect against the inflation
42:23that was to come. So he helped get gold
42:25legalized and he started gold newsletter
42:27to do that. But the dye was cast for
42:30Nixon in the 1960s with guns and butter,
42:34with the entitlement programs, the
42:36spending in Vietnam and the the the
42:38military machine of of the uh the United
42:41States. Deficit spending, in other
42:44words, uh started to gain momentum and
42:47the dollar was not worth what we said it
42:52was worth. Uh and uh and France
42:55recognized that. de Gaul recognized
42:57that. Uh Britain recognized that. So
43:00they at the time the only way that you
43:04well the dollar could be exchanged for
43:06gold not by American citizens but by
43:09foreign powers because of as part of the
43:12Breton Woods um uh facility. So Britain
43:16and France started sending their dollars
43:19to the US to get and to get gold and the
43:23US gold reserves were being drained at
43:25an everinccreasing rate. So Nixon really
43:28had to do two things. He had to stop the
43:30drain on gold reserves and devalue the
43:33dollar. I think at the time he really
43:36did intend for it to be temporary. uh
43:38but very quickly the dollar and other uh
43:42currencies started to uh to trade on a
43:46on floating exchange rates and there was
43:48no need in their eyes to reattach it to
43:52gold. I think that process uh that
43:55started then uh
43:58is reaching its end or we're in the
44:01endgame of that process and again
44:04whether it's the next crisis the one
44:06after or the one after I think there
44:08will have to be some sort of a
44:10reattachment of gold to the dollar and
44:14other fiat currencies. So yeah,
44:16eventually that temporary
44:19uh uh cessation of the dollar gold link
44:23uh will prove to be temporary
44:26>> and that's just it. So you are pretty
44:31convicted in your thesis that gold
44:33ultimately re-enters the monetary
44:36system.
44:36>> Yes, I I do. And you know, I don't
44:40really I think there'll be barriers to a
44:43uh to a strict exchange rate, a strict
44:45backing of the dollar. I don't think
44:48that the powers that be are will be
44:51willing to give up that power. Um I
44:54would be satisfied if there's just uh if
44:58if gold and hopefully silver are just
45:01restored as money alongside the fiat
45:05dollar. In other words, no taxation on
45:08gains. Uh you could if you wanted to use
45:11gold or silver uh in commerce. Uh but as
45:15long as the dollar is available, we know
45:17that people will use the dollar and
45:18hoard gold and silver. There just really
45:21needs to be a frictionless way to own
45:25gold and silver uh so that people can
45:29protect themselves against whatever the
45:31government is going to do with the
45:33dollar and how they will depreciate
45:35that. So there will be an exchange rate
45:37with the dollar but that rate will be
45:40set by the markets every day. It'll be
45:43reflected in the price of gold. Um, I
45:46don't think you
45:48I I think that a classic gold standard
45:51would be very difficult to establish.
45:54But if people are able to protect
45:56themselves from the mismanagement of the
45:59currencies by government, um, I think
46:02that's fine and I think that would be at
46:04the very least what we need to get.
46:06>> Well, so that's the the part that, you
46:09know, I want to focus on some more is
46:10that you said the suspension will be
46:13temporary. he will be accurate in that
46:16gold re-enters the monetary system. um
46:20when, how, why?
46:23>> Well, when again the timing is is hard
46:26to uh to predict, but the the price, you
46:31know, what happens when what what Nixon
46:33could have done uh instead of having the
46:36reserves at $42 an ounce, he could have
46:40said it's it it's 200. And so that would
46:44have effectively devalued the dollar by
46:46raising the price of gold. So they could
46:48do that. They could devalue the dollar
46:50and set a um an exchange rate. The the
46:55issue with a gold standard is that
46:58inflation
46:59uh to compensate for the devaluation of
47:02the currency over time, you have to
47:04devalue it. You have to change the
47:06exchange rate. And in when that happens,
47:09whoever's in power gets to blame. Right
47:12now we have inflation and the dollar is
47:15losing its purchasing power but it is a
47:17process. It's a trend over time and
47:20until it gets out of hand uh uh the
47:24powers that be lose they're not
47:26accountable for what happens when you
47:29have a fixed exchange rate and you
47:32devalue that blame is placed squarely on
47:35you. So the process today is one of
47:39escaping blame. um as long as you can,
47:43blaming it on the guy before you or
47:45blaming it on the guy after you. Uh
47:48that's the problem with a strict gold
47:51standard is that accountability is
47:53immediate and you would have to a
47:57devaluation happens as a a an overt act
48:02uh that is immediately blamed on whoever
48:04is in power at the time. That's why I
48:06think it'll be tough to have a a
48:08classical gold standard. But I think at
48:11the very least we can get uh a a removal
48:16of gold and silver established, at least
48:19gold established as legal tender once
48:21again. So there's no taxation on gains
48:25and there's no taxation on what is
48:27essentially the devaluation of the
48:29dollar. And look, obviously a gold
48:32standard is not something that a central
48:34bank, especially the Fed would want
48:36because it curtails its ability to print
48:39money as we've discussed. It holds you
48:42to uh fiscal austerity and
48:44responsibility, something that
48:45politicians on both sides of the aisle
48:47do not seem to be fans of. But you know,
48:50the the thinking is that eventually the
48:52hand will be forced as we discussed with
48:55this potential sovereign debt crisis.
48:58>> Yeah. And there is some buzz in gold
49:02circles that you know the Trump
49:04administration
49:06is potentially pre preparing for some
49:09kind of crisis along those lines. We had
49:12Hank Pollson who was the Treasury
49:14Secretary during the financial crisis of
49:172008 saying that there will be a time
49:19when there will not be buyers for US
49:21treasuries and that there needs to be a
49:23break the glass in case of emergency
49:26kind of plan. And people point out to
49:28the fact that, you know, Scott Bent,
49:30incredibly smart guy. He knows what's
49:33going on and he's also been a longtime
49:35supporter uh of gold, a gold bug, if you
49:39will. And there's some talk that uh with
49:45this renewed interest and talk about uh
49:48Fort Knox that there's renewed political
49:50interest in America's gold reserves. As
49:52we know, Fort Knox has come up in
49:55conversation an unusual amount for any
49:59administration. So there's some in the
50:02gold circle saying that perhaps some
50:04part of the administration is preparing
50:06for gold to play a larger role in the
50:09global monetary system, especially in
50:10light of the fact that obviously they
50:12know that central banks around the world
50:14are buying gold and not US treasuries.
50:17They know that China is hoarding gold.
50:20So, some would like to think that some
50:23in the Trump administration are ahead of
50:25the curve on this one and uh perhaps
50:30preparing accordingly.
50:33>> Yeah.
50:33>> Do you do you think that there's
50:35potentially some kind of plan B in
50:36involved in gold here?
50:38>> Yeah, I I take a a bit of a different
50:40tact on that. I I don't doubt that the
50:45the US is actually buying gold right
50:48now, but some people think they're
50:51buying gold to add to the gold reserves.
50:56And I I think there's a good chance they
50:58have been buying gold to actually um
51:03put gold in that's supposed to be in
51:05that left a long time ago. So, so if you
51:10look at when they were talking about
51:12audits of Fort Knox, it was it mentions
51:15by the administration of an audit of
51:18Fort Knox peaked. And you can look at
51:21this on on Google. You can use AI to
51:24track the public pronouncements and
51:27speeches and comments. And those
51:29comments peaked around February of 2025.
51:33And then they stopped. I mean, abruptly.
51:35They just stopped. Fell off a cliff. You
51:37didn't hear a peep out of the
51:38administration about an audit for Fort
51:41Knox. And yet the gold price from that
51:44point took off on a tremendous rally
51:47months and months long. And there was
51:50really intense buying in the market from
51:53some source. We couldn't really pick
51:54out. Some people uh speculated China,
51:57but even those who who uh really closely
52:01tracked what China was actually buying
52:03or seemed to be buying, it seemed to be
52:06not enough to get that kind of an impact
52:08on the gold price because Western
52:10investors again weren't really buying
52:12yet. So, who was buying all that gold? I
52:15contend that it's very possible that the
52:17US itself was trying to put gold into
52:20the vaults that was supposed to be
52:21there. I think that when uh Trump and
52:24Bant and the like were were talking
52:27about auditing Fort Knox, somebody went
52:29and whispered in their ears and saying,
52:31"Well, we've got to put the gold in
52:33there before we do the audit." Um and
52:36and now we're starting to see, you know,
52:39some talk of that again. Uh we saw that
52:42Ran uh Ran Paul went in and and looked
52:45at the gold and said it's all there.
52:48Now, I don't know what to make of that
52:50because Rand Paul is certainly nobody's
52:52fool. Uh, but he might be being used by
52:57someone as a useful idiot to tell people
53:00the gold is there. I think they still
53:03need obviously to have a real audit and
53:05and audit not not only count what gold
53:08is there, but see if it's encumbered in
53:11any way. Now, another thing that people
53:14have been talking about is the
53:15revaluation of the gold reserves to a
53:18current price level rather than the $42
53:22an ounce that it it it is on the books
53:24right now. And that this would somehow
53:26allow the the federal government to have
53:29a better looking balance sheet and be
53:30able to borrow more and take some of the
53:32stress off. But there's nobody out there
53:36that looks at the US gold reserves and
53:39thinks that they're worth $42 an ounce.
53:42They know that it's worth a whole lot
53:44more. And that the market takes that
53:46into account when it assigns a credit
53:49rating for the US government. Uh you
53:52know, a mythical credit rating, but a
53:54credit rating that's reflected in
53:56Treasury yields and the gold price. So,
53:59um I don't think that I think that's
54:01smoking mirrors. I I think there is a
54:03good chance that the US has been buying
54:05gold. Uh but I think it's just replacing
54:08gold that was exchanged long ago for
54:10paper IU.
54:13>> Uh so you think there was a covert
54:16shadow program for the US Treasury which
54:20they can do through the exchange uh
54:22stabilization act. They can actually buy
54:25gold and then only report it to Congress
54:26at some point down the line. So you
54:28think that that was happening when there
54:30was talk of this potential Fortnox
54:32audit. Now the gold is back and now we
54:35have Scott Vent going on Fox News
54:38talking to Jesse Waters saying the gold
54:39is there. It's accounted for. Bringing
54:41the conversation back into the
54:44mainstream narrative. Is is that your
54:46sign that you think the gold is now
54:47there?
54:48>> Yeah. But but what they're saying now is
54:50that everything's fine. The gold is
54:52there. But they're not talking about
54:56they're saying trust me the gold is
54:59there. When they've gotten into office
55:00they said don't trust the other people.
55:02Let's find out if the gold is there.
55:04>> But they're bringing up the conversation
55:06is is my point that this is an
55:08administration that is talking a heck of
55:09a lot about gold a heck of a lot about
55:11Fort Knox. I mean, the fact that you had
55:13Scott Bent on Fox News, arguably a
55:17friendlier uh media establishment to the
55:20administration, bringing it up, bringing
55:23it up unprovoked. Hey, we here's Fort
55:25Knox, here's the gold, it's all there.
55:28>> I mean, what is the signaling there
55:30supposed to tell us, do you think? Yeah,
55:32until they start talking about an audit
55:34again, I I I think it is trying to
55:38signal stability, confidence, you know,
55:42everything's great. Uh because they're
55:45in charge. You know, Bant when he did
55:47that interview, he pointed to a uh gold
55:50reserve note framed on the wall and said
55:53that you could take this now
55:55>> and exchange it for gold. And of course,
55:57you can't. uh you know they outlawed
55:59that in 1933.
56:02So um
56:04>> I think I think we have that clip from
56:06Bent uh seeing as we're talking about I
56:08think we have that clip from Bent if we
56:10want to play it now.
56:11>> These are the displays of our currency
56:13over the years. Some of it like we used
56:16to have silver certificates. We used to
56:18be backed by silver sometimes gold. And
56:21then in the 70s we just went to what was
56:23called fiat currency where you didn't
56:26have to keep gold or silver in the
56:28vault. If any of these are still
56:31outstanding though the silver or gold
56:33for them is the uh uh at Fort Knox
56:37waiting for them to be claimed if so
56:39needed.
56:40>> Have you visited Fort Knox?
56:42>> I I haven't. I haven't. People on my
56:44staff has uh we're going to the
56:46treasur's office. The treasurer has been
56:48to Fort Knox and I am happy to say all
56:50gold is present and accounted for. Uh
56:52the US has the largest pile of gold in
56:56the world over a trillion dollars at
56:58current market value.
57:00>> Yeah. So it's, you know, as as based as
57:04Bant is, you know, uh, as he's kind of a
57:07cover boy for, um, for a gold bug in a
57:13position of power now because some of
57:15his writings before he got into the the
57:18position were very gold positive and he
57:21is essentially a a gold bug. So he's in
57:24an in he's in an interesting place and I
57:26think what he says is very interesting.
57:29uh the timing is, you know, between that
57:32and Rand Paul, uh, you know, is it
57:36coincidental?
57:38>> Probably not. But again, until they
57:40start talking about an actual audit.
57:44>> Yeah.
57:44>> Uh, you know, I it it seems to be a a
57:47matter of them trying to cover and and I
57:51think, you know, instill some confidence
57:53in what they're doing. Well, there are
57:56two bills in both uh houses of Congress,
57:59the Senate and the House, both chambers
58:01of Congress asking for a proper audit.
58:04And it's just curious to me that gold
58:06has worked its way back into the the
58:08mainstream conversation. But again,
58:10that's not something that the global
58:12reserve currency wants to do willingly
58:14considering the impact that it would
58:16have uh on the ability to to print
58:20dollars and issue all of that debt
58:23willy-nilly. Um, let's bring it back to
58:27the story that we talked about the US
58:28Treasury buying back the long-term uh
58:32debt here. And I I want to push back on
58:36the debt thesis because all of this
58:37hinges on there will be a sovereign debt
58:39crisis. Uh it's a matter of when and not
58:43if and potentially that is the case. But
58:45in terms of the delaying that pot um we
58:50we talk about the headline number,
58:52right? We're approaching well you say
58:53we've crossed 40 trillion in debt now
58:55and obviously that is enormous but many
58:58would argue that it's the debt to GDP
59:02ratio that is what's significant here
59:05that it's not just how much debt you
59:06have it's about the size and
59:08productivity capacity of the economy
59:11supporting that debt and there is a
59:14theory out there that what if we're
59:15underestimating the other side of that
59:17equation so what if AI automation
59:21robotics all this investment that we're
59:23seeing right now actually does produce
59:26in almost productivity gains if GDP
59:28grows much faster than people expect. Um
59:32I mean we have seen versions of this
59:33before. You could argue after World War
59:35II US debt to GDP was extremely high and
59:38then that ratio came down dramatically
59:40over the following decades as the
59:42economy grew uh along with inflation and
59:44other factors. So the argument is, you
59:47know, couldn't we perhaps grow our way
59:50out of at least some of this problem
59:54again? Um maybe we're underestimating
59:56the denominator here. And if AI really
59:59does unleash a productivity boom, that
1:00:01could also potentially lead to to
1:00:04deflation. Uh what's your what's your
1:00:06read on that?
1:00:07>> Yeah, it's a great great point,
1:00:10Michelle. Um right now debt service
1:00:14costs as a percentage of GDP just
1:00:17reached a new record high. And if you
1:00:19look at over time when it was last I
1:00:23mean debt to GDP uh is at World War II
1:00:27levels and there's no World War going on
1:00:30but debt service
1:00:31>> there they're wars
1:00:33>> war. Yeah. But nothing like World War II
1:00:35yet. So uh but debt service costs of GDP
1:00:39just reached a new record. And if you
1:00:41look at the the last record, the last
1:00:44time it was anywhere near these levels,
1:00:46it was in the mid 1990s. And then we had
1:00:50the the tech boom where for a brief
1:00:54period we actually had a budget surplus
1:00:57in the US because of the capital gains
1:00:59influx of the rising uh tech stock
1:01:02valuations. Uh nothing the government
1:01:05did. it was productivity uh being
1:01:08reflected in equity valuations and then
1:01:11in turn in uh capital gains income for
1:01:15the uh tax income for the federal
1:01:18government. Uh but as we saw you know
1:01:21right after that we saw that bubble
1:01:24burst because expectations in those
1:01:27equity valuations were overblown. We
1:01:30ended we bottomed in gold in 2000 and
1:01:33then we embarked on an 11-year run the
1:01:37longest run uh of a gold bull market yet
1:01:42uh as the economy and the uh the
1:01:45government in government months went to
1:01:47reinflate the economy. So yeah, you can
1:01:51have that effect. Will AI change
1:01:53everything? Um there are valid arguments
1:01:56as well that it's going to be
1:01:58deflationary. uh you'll have job losses
1:02:01etc. But there's no doubt you will have
1:02:04somewhat of a productivity boom. Are the
1:02:07markets counting on that being too much?
1:02:10Will that lead to a crash? Who knows?
1:02:12You know, we we talk about the world
1:02:15will change when we have uh when fishing
1:02:18actually becomes uh fusion rather
1:02:20becomes an uh available
1:02:23>> uh energy source. And the good news is
1:02:26that's only about 10 years away. The bad
1:02:29news is it's been about 10 years away
1:02:31for the last 40 years. So will this
1:02:35happen? You know, I don't think you can
1:02:38can bet on that. I think these are
1:02:43extraordinary events that we hope will
1:02:45happen. You know, we we talk about gold
1:02:48at 10 or $20,000 an ounce. Do you really
1:02:51want to live in that world? Um, you
1:02:53know, I had a comment with James Grant a
1:02:56while back, actually a couple years ago.
1:02:58We were having an email correspondence
1:03:00and uh James closed off with here's the
1:03:04$25,000 gold. And I responded to him. I
1:03:08said, "Jim, when when gold hits $25,000,
1:03:12we'll be lighting our cigars with $100
1:03:14bills."
1:03:15>> Yeah.
1:03:15>> With our with our assault rifles uh
1:03:19across our laps. It's like, do you want
1:03:22to be to live in that world? I we don't.
1:03:25And you know, all these predictions we
1:03:28have of financial crashes and resets and
1:03:31the like, we should really hope that
1:03:33they don't happen. Uh we should hope to
1:03:36be wrong, but the trend certainly does
1:03:40not look that way. So what we can do is
1:03:44I believe not to get so caught up into
1:03:47what the exact path forward is going to
1:03:49be. uh when this crackup will happen or
1:03:54how it will happen, but just recognize
1:03:56that trend and invest accordingly and
1:04:00make sure we're hedged, make sure we're
1:04:02protected, and make sure we're invested
1:04:04accordingly to build wealth uh when as
1:04:09these this trend progresses,
1:04:11>> right? And we always say
1:04:15gold is your protection against all of
1:04:17this and gold itself is wealth. So and
1:04:21and [snorts] I I will get your uh
1:04:24answers on how best to invest in gold
1:04:25and and silver and leverage that. But
1:04:27seeing as we're on this AI productivity
1:04:30debt to GDP uh thesis and you're saying
1:04:34not very likely is there anything that
1:04:37does derail your gold and hard asset
1:04:40thesis? Is there anything that you know
1:04:43makes you go you know what um this would
1:04:47actually make me have to say something
1:04:48has changed and I need to rethink this
1:04:50whole thing. What could that something
1:04:51be?
1:04:52>> Well I I think you uh preiently hit the
1:04:56nail on the head. Uh I if if you look at
1:05:00debt and deficits are the big driver the
1:05:02underlying driver of all of this. So how
1:05:05do you pay off the debt? You can't raise
1:05:07taxes enough you'll to to do it. The
1:05:09math doesn't work. you'll crater the
1:05:11economy. You you obviously politicians
1:05:14can't cut spending enough. Most of the
1:05:17spending is through entitlements that
1:05:19are on autopilot and you can't cut that.
1:05:23[clears throat] You can't touch the
1:05:25third rails of politics and uh and cut
1:05:28spending. They just aren't going to do
1:05:29it. So, what's left? You know, you can
1:05:33grow your way out. You you would have to
1:05:35do it through productivity. So if this
1:05:39AI boom proves to be not only what
1:05:42everybody hopes it will be but much more
1:05:45uh if it somehow generates much greater
1:05:47revenues that that lead [clears throat]
1:05:51allow the government to start to pay off
1:05:53these debts perhaps. So, but the last
1:05:57time we had anything approaching this
1:05:58again in the 1990s, we see that
1:06:01government got more money in uh actually
1:06:05had a budget surplus, but then started
1:06:08spending that money like drunken sailors
1:06:10once again. So, you know, yeah,
1:06:13productivity, some big development
1:06:16innovation that supercharges
1:06:18productivity, allows us to grow our way
1:06:21out of the situation.
1:06:23That would be the uh the lottery ticket
1:06:26that I think could get us out of this.
1:06:28But again, human nature rules and if uh
1:06:32government gets a lot more money,
1:06:34they're going to spend a lot more money.
1:06:37>> That does seem to be uh the nature of
1:06:39the political beast there. Um so how
1:06:43should one then invest in gold? You've
1:06:45said that miners are your best leverage.
1:06:47If you had to sort of divide your
1:06:51percentage allocation, is it gold ETFs?
1:06:53Is it physical gold? Is it miners? Talk
1:06:56us through how you would uh suggest
1:07:00investing in gold.
1:07:01>> Yeah, I I think here we get back to my
1:07:05view that there's two reasons to own
1:07:06gold. One is as insurance and that means
1:07:10physical gold. Uh you know, if you don't
1:07:13have any possession, you don't own it.
1:07:15So uh to some extent at least I think
1:07:18everyone needs to have physical gold and
1:07:21silver uh in fairly divisible forms uh
1:07:25fairly accessible readily accessible
1:07:28whether that's in their home or
1:07:29somewhere else not in a bank uh vault
1:07:32but somewhere where they can get to it
1:07:34in uh in a time of emergency. Uh they
1:07:38can also be exposed to gold and silver
1:07:41through [clears throat] the ETFs, the
1:07:42paper representations.
1:07:44I favor things like the Sprat physical
1:07:47metal trust that actually
1:07:50have the gold uh and or we can be fairly
1:07:54confident actually have the gold. But
1:07:56then the other reason to own gold and
1:07:59gold related investments is as
1:08:01investments, insurance and then
1:08:03investments. If you recognize this
1:08:05trend, you want to invest accordingly to
1:08:09try and leverage the move underlying
1:08:10moves in the metals that uh typically
1:08:14and classically would be mining stocks.
1:08:16Yes, you can do futures and options if
1:08:18you uh have the expertise and the risk
1:08:21tolerance to do that. But uh the miners
1:08:26have always leveraged the metals in a
1:08:28bull market and uh silver naturally
1:08:32leverages gold. silver equities leverage
1:08:36silver. So that's one of the areas that
1:08:38I think is really high powered in this
1:08:41market and I think the mining equities
1:08:45all along the food chain from the big
1:08:47producers down to the explorers
1:08:50uh offer extraordinary potential really
1:08:53a generational opportunity. As I
1:08:56mentioned before, the the big producers
1:08:59are making money hand over fist, making
1:09:02gold hand over fist, and their margins
1:09:05are like nothing we've ever seen in the
1:09:07history of mining. Um, their their
1:09:10valuations, their market valuations
1:09:12don't come close to reflecting that.
1:09:14Same thing for the mid-tier producers
1:09:16that are actually growing production.
1:09:19Typically uh the development companies
1:09:21are dramatically undervalued on a uh
1:09:25valuation per ounce of resource basis
1:09:28and the explorers are generally very
1:09:31cashed up fairly cashed up and they can
1:09:34they have the funding to adequately and
1:09:37appropriately explore their prospects.
1:09:39The drills are turning. great results
1:09:42are coming out because companies have
1:09:43been sitting on wonderful targets for
1:09:46years, not able to drill them, and now
1:09:48they're finally able to to drill targets
1:09:51that they've been able to delineate. Uh
1:09:53so all along the food chain I think
1:09:55there's tremendous opportunity in the
1:09:57mining equities and I think investors
1:10:00are doing themselves a disfavor if
1:10:02they're not really educating themselves
1:10:05into the sector uh and and finding the
1:10:08bargains that are uh really replete
1:10:10throughout the sector.
1:10:12>> But you know for years one of the
1:10:14frustrations for gold investors has been
1:10:16that mining equities have not delivered
1:10:19that leverage to gold that investors
1:10:21expected. We are starting to see a
1:10:24shift. Do you think that that
1:10:25relationship has finally changed?
1:10:28>> Yeah, I I think that AI has has really
1:10:32um stolen the oxygen in the in the room
1:10:36as it were. they they've gotten all the
1:10:37attention and there's been no need for
1:10:42uh Wall Street and and institutions to
1:10:46uh to really get into the sector when
1:10:48they they're making so much money in in
1:10:51these equities that are are more
1:10:53mainstream. I do think that um you know
1:10:57gold used to be and still is obviously
1:11:00to a large extent gold and silver were
1:11:02kind of tin hat investments. you had to
1:11:05be a bit crazy to be a gold bull, much
1:11:08less a gold bug. Uh I think the central
1:11:10bank buying of gold has uh helped that
1:11:14has established more credibility for
1:11:16gold uh in mainstream markets. But
1:11:20there's a lot of room to make up and
1:11:23compared really since the last bull
1:11:25market in the 2000s, there's so much
1:11:28more money in the world. There are
1:11:30oceans of liquidity slloshing around the
1:11:33world's markets and gold and silver and
1:11:36mining equities are this little lagoon
1:11:39in that ocean and every now and then a
1:11:42little of the tide comes into that
1:11:45sector and lists the equities. when that
1:11:48though some of those some of that
1:11:50liquidity really sloshes into this small
1:11:54little lagoon of of the metals and
1:11:56mining uh the reaction is going to be
1:11:59nothing short of extraordinary and I and
1:12:01I think that's what's happening. We're
1:12:03starting to get trickles of that
1:12:05liquidity into the sector. Uh and we've
1:12:08already seen the sector move from the
1:12:10bottoms of this uh recent correction.
1:12:14We've seen gold seasonality comes into
1:12:17play and in it as it typically does.
1:12:20Gold's up about 10% or more from its
1:12:23bottoms. The mining equities are up in
1:12:26many cases 25 30%.
1:12:28>> From th that those bottom levels. So
1:12:31it's happening right now. It is
1:12:33happening according to form. Um and I
1:12:37think the the opportunity is right here
1:12:39in front of us.
1:12:41Uh yeah to your point we have seen uh
1:12:43about a 20% bounce back but uh in in the
1:12:47mining sector but uh where where do you
1:12:49think is the greatest upside is it major
1:12:51producers
1:12:52uh developers
1:12:55uh royalty companies junior exploration
1:12:58companies do you have a particular focus
1:13:03>> uh no to a particular focus and yes to
1:13:06all of the above. You know, I Michelle,
1:13:09I I don't typically
1:13:11uh invest in the sector thematically. I
1:13:14don't say, "Oh, I like royalty
1:13:16companies. Now I'm diving into that." Or
1:13:18mid tiers. Uh in gold newsletter
1:13:21historically, we focus on the bottom of
1:13:24the food chain, the lower end, you know,
1:13:26the explorers and and early stage
1:13:28developers have done very well in that
1:13:30sector. I I will say that the majors
1:13:34right now uh possibly for the first time
1:13:36in in my career offer similar potential
1:13:40to the junior drill hole place. You
1:13:43know, the the majors to be priced
1:13:45appropriately could go up four or fivex
1:13:47from here and with much less risk. So
1:13:50yeah, you can almost throw a dart at at
1:13:54the uh the listings of the majors and
1:13:56not do uh and do very well going
1:13:59forward. But all along the food chain,
1:14:02there's just tremendous opportunity. And
1:14:05so I look at each company individually,
1:14:08what is its individual story?
1:14:10Particularly in the explorers and
1:14:12developers, you know, what are the
1:14:14factors that uh indicate that this
1:14:17developer is even more undervalued
1:14:20uh than its peer group? uh what are the
1:14:24the the indicators that this exploration
1:14:26company is on the verge of potentially a
1:14:29big discovery that's going to really
1:14:31move the needle and attract a lot of
1:14:33money a lot of attention from the
1:14:35market. So I' I've got a long list of
1:14:38companies in our gold newsletter
1:14:39portfolio and that's a challenge in
1:14:42itself. Uh you know we we find companies
1:14:44early early on and uh if the story
1:14:48develops we make a lot of money. If the
1:14:50story doesn't develop quickly, we drop
1:14:52it and find the next story that looks
1:14:54like it is. Um, and we've done very
1:14:57well. We had a number of tremendous
1:14:59successes in the market. I think there's
1:15:01a whole lot more coming up.
1:15:04>> Okay. Um, subscribe to the newsletter.
1:15:07Uh, Brian, we're running out of time
1:15:09here, but I cannot let you go without
1:15:11talking about silver. So, uh, what's
1:15:15your outlook on silver from here?
1:15:18Well, it you know not a very
1:15:20sophisticated uh analysis on silver. Um
1:15:24it has it will outperform gold simply
1:15:28because it always has. Therefore, the
1:15:31odds are very good that it will again
1:15:32and it obviously it is again. Now that
1:15:35western investors are involved in the
1:15:37silver market, it's going back to its
1:15:40classic uh leading indicator status. In
1:15:44every previous bull market, silver has
1:15:47actually led gold. Mining equities have
1:15:49led gold. They've been indicators that
1:15:52gold's about to move because they are
1:15:54more volatile. They have more torque. Uh
1:15:56speculators tend to go in to those
1:15:58sectors first. Uh so it will be a
1:16:01leading indicator for gold and it will
1:16:02outperform. Now I do think the current
1:16:06situation for silver is like nothing
1:16:08I've ever seen before in that industrial
1:16:11usage is playing a very big part and
1:16:15will play a very big part in this
1:16:16sector. I have uh uh really not felt
1:16:21that way throughout my career. I really
1:16:24um uh devalued the value of the
1:16:29industrial sector for gold um because
1:16:32I've always thought and and I think uh
1:16:35rightly so that it's the monetary demand
1:16:38on the margins that really moves
1:16:40silver's price and not so much
1:16:42industrial demand. Today though, uh, and
1:16:46over the next couple of years, we're
1:16:48going to see that industrial demand for
1:16:51silver will take off every newly mined
1:16:55ounce of gold. So, if the available
1:16:58supply well in and in the past,
1:17:00industrial demand and hasn't been a
1:17:02factor because we've had large above
1:17:04ground supplies, those supplies have
1:17:06been eaten away. So now every ounce of
1:17:09gold, I'm sorry, every ounce of silver
1:17:11coming out of the ground is being taken
1:17:15up and bid for by industrial demand. Uh
1:17:19recently in that runup earlier in the
1:17:21year and the silver price, we saw a very
1:17:24interesting phenomenon in that industry
1:17:26had to have silver. So for the first
1:17:29time ever, industry was bidding against
1:17:32monetary demand for whatever silver,
1:17:35whatever silver it could get and
1:17:38industry desperately needed silver. So
1:17:40it was willing to pay ever higher prices
1:17:43and investors sensed that and bid up the
1:17:47price uh to really stick it to uh to
1:17:50industry that needed the metal. So I I
1:17:53think that what was always
1:17:56a very powerful uh lever to gold has
1:18:01gotten much much more so because
1:18:05industry desperately needs silver and
1:18:07it's taking just about every nuance that
1:18:11is mined and so the effect of that
1:18:14monetary demand on the margins is going
1:18:16to be so much more pronounced going
1:18:18forward.
1:18:21Okay, granted. But if we do have this um
1:18:27crash, this crisis
1:18:29um which you know many say could come
1:18:32from the AI sector uh I would I don't
1:18:36want to say bubble bursting because AI
1:18:38is not necessarily a bubble but that
1:18:39euphoria stage peaking. [clears throat]
1:18:42um what happens to the industrial demand
1:18:45for silver there because so much of it
1:18:46is coming from that sector if we do have
1:18:50some kind of economic event. How does
1:18:53that impact the long-term picture for
1:18:55silver or you're not thinking in in that
1:18:58sort of timeline yet?
1:19:00>> Yeah, it it doesn't affect so much the
1:19:02long-term picture for silver, but short
1:19:04term it definitely will. you know, the
1:19:07the so-called duality of silver as a
1:19:10monetary metal and an industrial metal
1:19:12has never been uh until recently has
1:19:16never been an advantage for silver. It's
1:19:18been that industrial component has has
1:19:21really just amounted to a stick that uh
1:19:25the the market could use to beat silver
1:19:27with whenever there is any kind of an
1:19:29indication of a slowdown in China or
1:19:32econ the economy in general. Um but and
1:19:37it will be again you know if there is a
1:19:41a recession in the US or signs of a
1:19:44recession or or a slowdown in China
1:19:48uh the traders will use that as a reason
1:19:51to sell off silver. uh but the long-term
1:19:55trend for silver as a lever to gold and
1:19:58as a uh its monetary cache and as an
1:20:02indispensable component in so many
1:20:04technologies
1:20:06uh I think that long-term trend remains
1:20:08intact but there will be wiggles along
1:20:12the line along the uptrend and and yes
1:20:15you know a a uh uh a bubble bursting in
1:20:20the euphoria for AI yes Silver would
1:20:23suffer along with that. So would copper.
1:20:25So would uh the energy metals, the
1:20:28battery metals, but the long-term trends
1:20:30for all of those metals um are the bull
1:20:35markets for all those metals are so
1:20:39fundamentally bullish uh that I I don't
1:20:42think the long-term trend gets derailed.
1:20:45>> Well, you you've talked about silver's
1:20:47monetary role. Um, there was some
1:20:51speculation at some point that central
1:20:53banks could start buying silver for that
1:20:56monetary role. Do you see any progress
1:21:00in that trend?
1:21:01>> No, I really don't. I I don't think
1:21:03that's that's actually going to happen.
1:21:06Um, I think central banks have their
1:21:08hands full buying gold. Uh there's a
1:21:11long history of silver as money, as the
1:21:15poor man's gold, as the actual
1:21:17functional currency when when precious
1:21:19metals were the currency uh as well as
1:21:23money. Um but no, I don't think central
1:21:27banks will necessarily buy silver. There
1:21:29was talk that Saudi Arabia was, but that
1:21:32was actually a sovereign wealth fund
1:21:34that that bought some silver. Um, you
1:21:37know, it is interesting and and I'm
1:21:39going to get myself in some trouble
1:21:41here. But, uh, if there is a monetary
1:21:44reset eventually, and again, I I don't
1:21:47necessarily think that's the next crisis
1:21:49or perhaps even the one after that or
1:21:52the one after that, somewhere down the
1:21:53road, there will be a reset. Uh, and
1:21:56gold will be reattached somehow to fiat
1:22:00currencies. Uh I'm not so sure at that
1:22:03point that they'll bring silver along.
1:22:06Um in the US in particular, silver's
1:22:08attachment is money was largely due to
1:22:12the silver mines of the west and uh the
1:22:16powerful silver baron interest that had
1:22:19great political power and and uh kind of
1:22:23forced a bimetalism on on the US. Um, so
1:22:28silver is the poor man's money, but will
1:22:31it be the official money if there is a
1:22:34great reset? I'm not so sure. Um, but I
1:22:38think that that's such a
1:22:40uh uh
1:22:43far event in the future or an event so
1:22:46far in the future that we don't really
1:22:48need to worry about it right now. I
1:22:50think I think we know that silver in
1:22:53this bull market is going to outperform
1:22:56gold. And I think that's why we buy it
1:22:58now.
1:22:59>> So if there is a monetary reset and gold
1:23:03works its way back into the global
1:23:04monetary system and as he wrote in your
1:23:07newsletter, Nixon turns out to be
1:23:10accurate in that that suspension is
1:23:12temporary. You're saying that that is
1:23:13ultimately not good for Silva.
1:23:17>> No, it would not be. Uh but again, the
1:23:20timing of that is not only in question,
1:23:22it's likely well off in the future and
1:23:26not an event that it's going to happen
1:23:28in this bull market. And I think we'll
1:23:29probably have plenty of time uh before
1:23:32then. And in the meantime, we have the
1:23:34industrial demand for silver that is,
1:23:36you know, again, taking so much metal
1:23:38off the market.
1:23:39>> And so I have to ask, when do we hit
1:23:42triple digit silver again?
1:23:44>> Uh why are you asking me that? you know,
1:23:47I've been in this market long enough to
1:23:49avoid those kinds that kind of cred
1:23:52accountability as it were. Um, I hope
1:23:55>> because I've been long enough in this
1:23:56industry to know that I have to ask that
1:23:58kind of maintaining my credibility.
1:24:01>> Putting me on the spot. Um, you know, I
1:24:04can tell you what I hope I hope we don't
1:24:06hit $100 silver this year. I hope we hit
1:24:09it sometime next year or even the year
1:24:12after that. I want this market to
1:24:14progress a bit more.
1:24:17um slowly and surely than what we saw in
1:24:21January. I think uh that was obviously a
1:24:26speculative bubble as it were in silver.
1:24:29Um and you know when silver gets to be
1:24:33around $125
1:24:35or thereabouts, it starts to actually
1:24:38put a bind on on its usage in solar
1:24:42panels for instance. and you know
1:24:44industry will start to try to find ways
1:24:46to innovate around it.
1:24:48>> Um
1:24:50but so so I I think it's possible before
1:24:53the end of the year. I hope it isn't. I
1:24:56think it's more likely that next year
1:24:58we'll we'll see silver around $100
1:25:01again.
1:25:03Gold uh is amazing. What it did just
1:25:06today as we're talking was amazing. So,
1:25:08I think there's a good chance we get
1:25:11very close to $5,000, if not above it,
1:25:14before the end of the year. Um,
1:25:16>> does go make a new all-time high in
1:25:182026?
1:25:21>> Oh, I hope it doesn't. I hope it extends
1:25:24this bull run. I think it's very
1:25:26possible, but I I think it's something
1:25:28that's much much more likely in the
1:25:31first or second quarter of next year.
1:25:35>> Okay. So, you're punting to 2027 for
1:25:39back to triple digit silver and for gold
1:25:41to make a new all-time high. Uh, Brian,
1:25:44I have a lot more questions, but
1:25:45unfortunately, we are out of time for
1:25:47this episode. So, we will have to have
1:25:49you back on again soon. Where can our
1:25:52viewers learn more about you? Where can
1:25:53they subscribe to your newsletter? And
1:25:55of course, tell them about the New
1:25:56Orleans Investment Conference.
1:25:58>> Yeah, for gold newsletter, it I think
1:26:00it's the best of value out there. We do
1:26:02focus on junior mining stocks, macro in
1:26:05the metals markets. You can go to
1:26:07goldnewsletter.com,
1:26:09download a sample issue, but uh if you
1:26:12want to be involved in this sector, I
1:26:13know I'm talking my own book, but I I
1:26:16think it's the best bargain out there
1:26:17and I highly recommend that you join our
1:26:19family of very happy uh subscribers. So,
1:26:23goldnewsletter.com.
1:26:25Also, uh, New Orleansconference.com
1:26:28is where you'll find all the information
1:26:30on this year's New Orleans Investment
1:26:32Conference. It is the longest running
1:26:34investment event, retail investment
1:26:37event in the world. We uh have lasted
1:26:39this long because our business model is
1:26:42providing more value than really any
1:26:45other event out there. Our speaker
1:26:47roster, if you look at it, is like
1:26:49nothing else you'll find anywhere else.
1:26:51This year we have just as a uh
1:26:55scratching the surface Grant Williams,
1:26:57Doug Casey and what may be his final
1:26:59public appearance. He says it is at
1:27:01least Danielle D. Martino Booof uh Brent
1:27:05Johnson, Dominic Frisbee, Peter Bookvar,
1:27:08Jim Urio, Peter Schiff, Tavi Costa,
1:27:11George Gammon, uh list goes on and on.
1:27:14Dozens and dozens of top speakers. You
1:27:17may find three or four of our speakers
1:27:20at other events. you won't find 30 or 40
1:27:23and that's what you get in New Orleans.
1:27:25It's a wonderful event uh coming up
1:27:28October 28th to 31st and uh again new
1:27:32orleans investment no I'm sorry new
1:27:34orleansconference.com
1:27:36to get all the information
1:27:38>> and you know what I love about that
1:27:39conference is that you're not afraid to
1:27:42have uh a diverse range of opinions. I
1:27:46mean you've had people on like Lynn
1:27:47Alden, James Lavish, Larry Leard uh
1:27:51talking about assets like Bitcoin and
1:27:53that's what I think is so useful about
1:27:55your conference is that you do show
1:27:57different perspectives um you know
1:27:59Bitcoin popping today as well. So maybe
1:28:01the debasement trade is back on for
1:28:03Bitcoin as well with this uh Treasury
1:28:06development of buying back some uh long
1:28:10end of the curve yields. But we'll have
1:28:13to have you back to talk about Bitcoin.
1:28:14We're out of time for today. Brian,
1:28:16final thoughts.
1:28:18>> Uh, I think again this is an
1:28:20opportunity, a generational opportunity,
1:28:22the kind of thing we haven't seen since
1:28:24early 2000s. Uh, and we have we've had a
1:28:28few bites at the apple. Equity
1:28:30valuations are still uh extraordinarily
1:28:33low and undervalued right now. And you
1:28:35have a what I think is a window of
1:28:38opportunity to get involved in a
1:28:40multi-year bull market. probably the
1:28:42biggest and best and most profitable
1:28:44bull market we've ever seen in gold,
1:28:47silver, and mining equities.
1:28:49>> All right, we'll leave it on that note.
1:28:50Brian Lundine, thank you so much for
1:28:52joining us.
1:28:53>> Thank you, Michelle.
1:28:54>> And of course, as always, a big thank
1:28:57you for watching. And if you found this
1:29:00conversation insightful, interesting,
1:29:02educational, entertaining, hopefully all
1:29:04of the above, please be sure to like,
1:29:08share, and subscribe. It really helps us
1:29:10grow this community and I truly
1:29:13appreciate it. And remember, if you
1:29:15would like to learn more about building
1:29:16a precious metal strategy, you can reach
1:29:19out to [email protected].
1:29:21There's a team of specialized advisers
1:29:23and brokers that can guide you according
1:29:26to your personal circumstances. If you
1:29:28mention my name, you'll get an extra
1:29:30special deal. Also, check out the
1:29:32website msfranklin.com.
1:29:35As always, leave us your comments. The
1:29:38sweet ones, the spicy ones. We like them
1:29:40all. Feel free to praise wine or just
1:29:43fine. We will see you soon. Until then,
1:29:46stay sovereign.
1:29:51[music]
1:29:52>> This is The Real Story with Michelle
1:29:55McCory.
1:30:06>> [music]

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