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Trans Rights: Knowles Vs Protesters | Cross The Line — Transcript

by Michael Knowles · 4,570 words · 648 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00when a conservative speaks on a college
0:02campus anything can
0:04happen I've come to expect the
0:06histrionics of the excitable leftist
0:09students with purple hair that's just
0:11how college kids are it's frankly kind
0:13of charming what still gives me some
0:16surprise though is that the most Ardent
0:18disruption these days often comes from
0:20the supposed adults who should know
0:22better the university administrators
0:25just days before I was scheduled to
0:27speak at the University of Wisconsin
0:28Madison leftwing admin rators tried to
0:30shake down the students for a last
0:32minute unprecedented security fee
0:35totaling well over
0:37$4,000 for me little old me at first I
0:41was honored W Madison didn't charge any
0:44last minute security fees when my
0:46friends Ben Shapiro and Matt Walsh spoke
0:48there perhaps they were just more
0:50intimidated by my Sicilian physique but
0:53then I learned that the fee was not to
0:55protect the students from me rather it
0:58was to protect me from the liberal
1:00students who ideologically are on the
1:03same side as the administrators who were
1:05trying to shake me down fortunately the
1:08group that had invited me held its
1:10ground and even threatened to sue the
1:12school which was legally Bound by the
1:14First Amendment to abide by Free Speech
1:17what was the result chaos
1:21Mayhem did my producer survive the
1:24violent
1:25hordes it all turned out great hundreds
1:28of people came in they filled all the
1:30seats and they were polite for almost
1:33the whole time I'm standing here now a
1:35biological male wearing a dress with a
1:37pair of leggings do you sincerely
1:39believe that I should be subject to
1:40punitive Justice on the basis of what
1:42I'm wearing and if so are you willing to
1:43turn yourself in for wearing women's
1:45panties in your gay college
1:47film I say almost the whole time because
1:50a couple students one who called himself
1:53transgender and another who called
1:55herself
1:56non-binary became a bit more pointed
1:58during the Q&A
2:00I was happy to answer their questions so
2:02happy in fact that we all decided to sit
2:05down and have a conversation after the
2:07event Demi Demi Ferris first of all
2:12thank you for coming to the lecture and
2:13then thank you for your questions and
2:15then for sitting down I take it you did
2:17not agree with me coming in did I
2:20persuade either of
2:21you no no no no okay not particularly no
2:26the topic of the conversation was
2:28abortion m you asked about
2:31transgenderism I did I didn't persuade
2:33you on that no not not really when did
2:36you uh start to identify as a woman what
2:40makes you say that I identify as a woman
2:41because I actually didn't assert that I
2:44I don't know is it just pattern
2:45recognition is it do I just look like
2:47one of the one of the transits you're
2:49wearing a dress was my first hint yeah
2:51have you heard have you heard of a
2:53fboy do you know what that means now I
2:56have but I don't know what it means it's
2:58uh feminine men they were like a lot of
3:00dresses it's cool I'm not I'm not a fboy
3:03I identify as a transwoman okay so I was
3:05right yeah you were you were you were
3:07correct but a fanboy is different than a
3:08trans yes they are they're quite
3:10different what's the difference so a
3:12fboy ident still retains their male
3:14identity and pursues femininity whereas
3:16a transwoman actually identifies as a
3:18woman what does that mean though if you
3:20ID like if I pursue if I pursue cilian
3:24identity then I would identify as
3:27Sicilian yeah I would agree with that
3:30but then if a fem booy pursues feminine
3:33identity he would identify as female he
3:36would identify as feminine not
3:37necessarily female I don't think I think
3:38you and everyone at the daily wire would
3:40agree that feminine and female are not
3:42synonymous well men can be a feminite
3:44yeah actually femin that's different
3:46than feminine feminine what would you
3:48how would you define feminine versus a
3:49fem feminine is good and it's what women
3:51are when they act like women and a
3:52feminine is bad and it's what men are
3:54when they act like women so yeah we
3:55could say a fan booy is a a boy who is a
3:58feminite transwoman doesn't retain the
4:00male identity and chooses to identify as
4:02a female okay but then to loop back
4:04around to my first question when did you
4:05start to identify as transgender started
4:08to identify as transgender um internally
4:12I've noticed the sort of mismatch
4:14between my identity and the body that I
4:15was given and the roles that Society has
4:18placed upon me uh that mismatch was
4:20pretty clear from a very young age I'm
4:22not going to pretend that I was a woman
4:24all along you know I was born with a
4:26female brain but I'd say probably since
4:28around 4K you know like school um 4K
4:32like four-year-old kindergarten Like
4:34Preschool okay what do you think caused
4:36it if you say you weren't you know it's
4:37not like you were born in the wrong body
4:38or something what do you think caused it
4:40I think it's quite simple really I think
4:43some people like ketchup and some people
4:45don't you know I wanted to live my life
4:47this way I wanted to pursue these
4:49characteristics these traits no I'm not
4:51denying that you you want or I want but
4:54I'm just kind of asking why I mean I I
4:57the same I think the same reason why
4:59anybody identifies as the gender they
5:01were assigned at Birth kind of it just
5:03kind of it just feels kind of natural
5:05when did you publicly start doing it um
5:09I'd say I came out as trans to everyone
5:12except for my family members um because
5:15it wasn't safe in my household where it
5:18wasn't safe why wasn't it safe yeah I
5:21don't want to I don't want to get into
5:22the grotesque details but I was in a
5:24pretty abusive household um my father
5:27was not very accepting but my mother do
5:29you think maybe that might have had
5:31anything to do with you know all no the
5:34the abuse and whatnot didn't really I
5:35don't I don't see any correlation with
5:37that in my gender identity I could see
5:38the look on your face because I've just
5:40heard talking point I've heard it's not
5:41just I mean I've just heard it from
5:43people who uh have detransition or you
5:46know that sometimes that correlates yeah
5:48I don't like you know trust me I'm not
5:50I'm not proud to say that I grew up in
5:52an abusive household and I also happen
5:53to be trans I don't want to feel that
5:56statistic but I'm also not going to be
5:57dishonest about my upbringing yeah now
5:59you are not trans you're you're just
6:02you're trans too mhm no you're not I
6:07am so what are you I'm non-binary oh all
6:11right I I don't mean to be but you're
6:14not you're not saying you're a man I'm
6:15not saying I'm a man now and you would
6:17have at some point in your life said
6:18you're a woman uh I don't think I ever
6:21said I was a woman a little girl I don't
6:23know sure yeah you did okay but then
6:25when did you decide you're non-binary I
6:29didn't know what transgender or
6:31nonbinary was until I was 145 most
6:35people had not heard of it until
6:36recently I mean it existed but I I
6:39hadn't heard of it um I suppose we'll
6:41perhaps agree to disagree on that you
6:43don't think it existed until recently no
6:46I I think people have been confused
6:48about their sex and I think they've had
6:50all sorts of aberant desires for all of
6:52history but I don't I don't think it's a
6:54real category basically so I don't mean
6:56it in any disrespectful way I just don't
6:58think I I don't think it's possible to
7:01have a male body but be a female because
7:04I don't think that's how Body and Soul
7:05or how identity actually works so I
7:07think what we are saying is that
7:10transgenderism let's just say as an
7:12ideology has existed for a very very
7:14long time the first books that were
7:17burned in the Holocaust were about
7:21transgender people about sexual studies
7:24well yeah there was all sorts of sort of
7:25sexual and it goes back obviously much
7:27further than the 1940s people had these
7:29but it is a I suppose the difference
7:31would be transvestitism has existed for
7:34all of his they've always been sort of
7:36you know cabaray and red light districts
7:38and things like that but the ideology
7:40meaning the view that uh a man could say
7:44he really is a woman or a woman could
7:46say she really is multiple you know they
7:49or them or not either man or a woman
7:52that's a relatively new ideology um no
7:55not the behavior but um we have looking
7:58back I mean viously historical records
8:00going back thousands of years get kind
8:02of shaky just because you know we aren't
8:04able to preserve text that long and
8:06maybe text even didn't exist but uh they
8:08did exist we we actually have not for
8:10all of human history thousands of years
8:12yeah but not like oh not going back to
8:14Adam in the G that's probably true um
8:16but we have there's evidence of people
8:21with um assigned male uh skeletons in
8:26female traditionally female clothing and
8:29Tire in burial and we have the same vice
8:32versa people um this is uh one of the
8:36specific uh examples I'm thinking of was
8:39uh Norse um there was a uh female
8:44skeleton that was buried with uh
8:48traditionally male burial rights and uh
8:52clothing um how do how do they know the
8:54the skeleton's female um well I I said
8:58female because obviously I believe that
9:01gender is something social rather than
9:03just biological but but the scientists
9:06were able to identify it by the skele we
9:08know that sex is
9:09unambiguous that's I don't think we're
9:11denying that there's this odd idea among
9:14conservatives that transgender people
9:16don't understand that biological sex
9:19exists or that we're deled some don't
9:21that we some don't some do you obviously
9:23do but some some don't no I mean I have
9:26yet to meet anybody I have yet to meet
9:28any of cont to look like that but I
9:31haven't those people are clip talking to
9:32me these are people I promise you I've
9:35spoken to these people on camera in some
9:37cases uh but but in any case you don't
9:39you don't uh feel that way uh I and
9:42have felt that way you're nonbinary
9:45uhhuh you said that you came to this
9:47realization at
9:4814 what do you think kind of pushed you
9:52over that edge at 14 um I think intense
9:56emotional distress at the prospect of
9:58needing
10:00to navigate through life being someone's
10:04daughter someone's sister someone's
10:06girlfriend someone's wife someone's
10:08mother um that's
10:10just something that that that wasn't
10:13really a role that I wanted to fill and
10:16a role that I felt intensely distressed
10:19at the prospect of needing to fulfill
10:21what why is that it's it's difficult to
10:23explain it would be difficult to explain
10:25in a very short period of time it's just
10:27one of those things that you feel deep
10:29down your soul do you mean it would be
10:31difficult to explain even to yourself or
10:33you're just saying it would be difficult
10:34to articulate this thing that I it's
10:35difficult to articulate it's kind of an
10:37abstract thing the yeah the cause of
10:39gender dysphoria and this discomfort
10:41with your sex assigned at Birth and
10:42these roles is still pretty widely
10:44debated even in the woke scientific
10:46community and there would seem to be
10:47even among the protrans kind of woke a
10:51presumed uh plurality or multiplicity
10:54rather of causes like some people can
10:58fall into this as a b of a sexual fetish
11:01that isn't transgender though that's um
11:03some guys who dress up like women will
11:05openly state that they're the wichowski
11:08brothers who are now the wichowski
11:09sisters said they fell into their
11:11transgender identity largely through
11:13pornography and others will say that as
11:15well now you might say well it wasn't
11:17pornography it was because of you know I
11:19wanted to wear a dress when I was four
11:20years old or something but I'm just
11:21saying in some cases it it would appear
11:23to be more of a sexual fetish for some
11:26people it might be caused by some
11:27emotional distress for some people it
11:28might be caused by any number of other
11:30factors I again I'm just I'm I'm just
11:33repeating what I've heard from the left
11:34I'm not even stating I mean the material
11:36think the left says that the material
11:38thei Brothers certainly do you know
11:40they're uh people the most
11:44famous somebody wear a dress with a male
11:46body wildly false the material presence
11:49of a man in a woman's dress perhaps
11:52could come about as a sexual fetish I
11:55think we agree on that but I don't think
11:56that I think what we're trying to say is
11:58that that's a very different thing than
11:59we're describing no that's I guess
12:01that's what I'm saying too that there
12:02are these uh so we all agree there are
12:04the these different causes for this kind
12:06of um identity there's so much more to
12:09say first though go to preborn docomo I
12:13am here today because exactly 34 years
12:17ago almost to the minute my mother chose
12:20life you are here today because your
12:22mother chose Life The Miracle of Life is
12:24a gift that everyone deserves because
12:26every every life is precious that is why
12:28this show has partnered with pre-born
12:29network of clinics these ultrasounds are
12:32more than just a medical procedure
12:34they're a gateway to a mother's heart
12:36the moment she hears her baby's
12:37heartbeat the odds of her choosing life
12:39double one ultrasound costs only 28
12:42bucks but any amount will help all gifts
12:44are tax deductible and 100% of your
12:46donation will save babies to donate
12:49securely dial pound 250 say the keyword
12:51baby that is pound 250 say the keyword
12:54baby or go to pre-born docomo kwes I
12:58Really support this organization please
13:01donate as generously as you can preborn
13:04docomo you came not to talk about
13:06transgenderism you asked me about
13:08abortion so you support abortion
13:10absolutely and you support it do you
13:12support abortion we didn't even talk
13:13about it even though point you do yeah
13:15you won't need one though no I I won't
13:18need an abortion any and you might not
13:19either because you're transgender or
13:21non-binder um do you believe that
13:24transgender people are all
13:25celibate I'm just a little confused as
13:27to what non-binary means non-binary
13:29means um I am not a man or a woman
13:32regardless of what parts I was bestowed
13:36okay which you're saying is your body
13:38has nothing to do with whether you're a
13:39man or a woman um correct okay I think
13:43often yeah often times the gender
13:44identity does describe a relationship to
13:46one's body for example you know if I
13:48were to say I am a transgender woman I'm
13:50directly asserting that I am a woman and
13:52that I have you know male genitalia but
13:55or you could have gone under the knife
13:56and lost your male genitalia I could
13:58have yeah so you could be asserting app
14:00too so I guess that's what I'm saying it
14:01seems like you could just all of these
14:03terms just mean kind of whatever you
14:04want them to mean no not really it's
14:08pretty concrete definition so you just
14:10said you just said to be a transgender
14:11woman I have to be wearing a dress or
14:13look like this but I didn't say I have
14:15to I said that's just how I like what's
14:17the concrete definition of a transgender
14:18woman somebody who is assigned male at
14:20Birth who identifies and pursues
14:22Womanhood okay and what is Womanhood
14:24then not to sound like Walsh but what is
14:26Womanhood then what does that mean in
14:28that in that statement I would describe
14:29Womanhood as a very subjective con but
14:31you just also said we're talking about
14:32things that are concrete and that's all
14:33I'm just trying to grab on to something
14:35what is the actual definition of the
14:36thing that you are using to Define
14:39transgenderism I would describe
14:41Womanhood as a set of characteristics
14:42associated with females usually but
14:44that's a that's a circular definition
14:46and even the way you said it you said I
14:48I would describe but I'm not asking you
14:49to describe anything I'm asking if you
14:51can offer a definition because it gets
14:53to the heart of your um identity which
14:56is you're four years old you say I don't
14:57really feel like a man how would you
14:59even know what that would mean at the
15:02age of four and how would you know what
15:03that would mean now to feel like a
15:05woman because there are a variety of
15:07traditions associated with the male and
15:10female sex and I've decided that I'd
15:11rather subscribe to the ones associated
15:13with the female sex but how would you
15:15even know what that is how would I even
15:17know what the Traditions associated with
15:19the female sex are yeah I mean they
15:20could be just a caricature I know that
15:22mom stays at home and that Dad goes to
15:24work I know that all but you would
15:25disagree with that no that you said you
15:27reject those roles understand what a
15:29traditional gender role is I don't
15:31reject that it as a concept exists I'm
15:35not comfortable with these social
15:36expectations therefore I am going to
15:38adhere to different social expectations
15:40that are generally opposite sex is no
15:43you're not I'm saying it right now well
15:45now you are but that's not previously
15:46what you said previously what you said
15:47was there are these different social
15:49expectations associated with being a
15:51woman and I so wanted to avoid them that
15:55I no longer call myself a woman not that
15:58a woman can avoid those social
15:59expectations but rather that the social
16:01expectations are so intrinsic to
16:04Womanhood that I will no longer be a
16:06woman I will be a non-binary they them
16:08that's what you said earlier you see the
16:10the conflict the contradiction there yes
16:12I understand where your confusion came
16:13from um
16:16so I uh I don't want to adhere to the
16:21social norms generally uh pushed onto
16:24women and I also feel intense discomfort
16:28when when being called with feminine
16:31pronouns when being called a woman when
16:34being perceived as a woman and I
16:36understand those things aren't
16:37necessarily under my control so you know
16:39water off a duck's back but uh I feel
16:42discomfort with that therefore I choose
16:44to reject it okay would you just to tie
16:48it up on I don't want to spend the whole
16:49time talking about the issue that you
16:50wanted to talk about would you ever get
16:52an
16:53abortion um I could I could come up with
16:57a circumstance in which I would
16:59I highly doubt that such a circumstance
17:02would arise why wouldn't you mostly just
17:05because those
17:07circumstances I've never been pregnant I
17:10do not foresee being pregnant in my
17:12future okay but what why wouldn't you in
17:16principle I guess in principle in
17:18principle I have no issues with it past
17:21certain points of development I do
17:23believe you can start ascribing
17:26personhood to a fetus what would the
17:28point B then where you because you said
17:31look there's a there's a point at which
17:33I would start to ascribe personhood and
17:34then presumably you wouldn't have the
17:36abortion so what is that point um I I'm
17:39not a
17:40doctor um and you know this isn't
17:44something that I considered very much
17:45because again I don't foresee myself
17:47being pregnant sure sure but you you
17:49intu it I mean you're obviously
17:50concerned about the issue of abortion
17:51you showed up to this lecture tonight to
17:52ask me this long question about it so
17:54you you Intuit it that there is some
17:57point at least in gestation where the
17:59baby would be a person and then it would
18:01be kind of wrong to abort the baby so so
18:03that's that's me personally yeah so I'm
18:05asking about your personal opin that
18:07anyone should be forced to give up their
18:10bodily autonomy to save the life of
18:12another person even if you're
18:14considering a fetus to be a baby even if
18:16you're considering baby from the
18:19beginning so then why did you bring up
18:20the personhood thing you just said look
18:22I I would that's how I feel but I don't
18:25believe that the way that I feel should
18:27necessarily decide what other people do
18:29with their bodies and their lives you
18:31don't think that your conclusions are
18:33sound you don't think that you perceive
18:34the truth I'm just not you think you're
18:36logic is too good I think that believing
18:39that my perspective is universally
18:43correct I think that that's huus I'm a
18:45human being but but you came here to
18:47tell me that my views are wrong and your
18:49views are right I do believe that people
18:51have the right to self-determination
18:52very firmly but you would you would
18:54force me to live in a society that
18:56tolerates abortion I don't think that
18:58you P being personally affected by that
19:00it's not affecting your right to
19:02self-determination it's not affecting
19:04the way that you live your life right so
19:06you're you're you're forcing me to to
19:09base my political judgments on your
19:11conception of self-determination don't
19:13don't you think that's a little coercive
19:15isn't that a little little bit of hubus
19:16that you're showing here um
19:20well this this is this is really this is
19:23odd
19:25um wait I'm I'm not even follow I
19:29I'm not sure you're saying much at all
19:31uh could you repeat what you were saying
19:32try and be more specific yes you
19:34previously said that it's a
19:35demonstration of Pride and hubris for
19:38you to take your own personal judgments
19:40and impose them and universalize them to
19:42everyone else and then in the very next
19:44breath you said that your views of
19:46bodily autonomy and self-determination
19:48ought to apply by to everyone and we all
19:50ought to abide by them that's why you
19:51came here to tell me that I'm wrong and
19:53you're right that's a
19:56contradiction um I also believe in democ
19:59and the majority of Americans side with
20:01me they believe in the right to bottle
20:03the yes I'm I'm not so sure I mean after
20:06Ry Wade was overruled half of the
20:09states imposed limitations on abortion
20:11or baned outright um that's democracy
20:14for you
20:15isn't um are you under the impression
20:17that we live in an absolute democracy no
20:20we live in a representative democracy
20:22yeah we we do live in a representative
20:24democracy and those Representatives do
20:26not necessarily their actions do not
20:28necessarily reflect the opinions of the
20:30people that they represent so you
20:32support democracy in principle just not
20:34ours I I support democracy but not our
20:38democracy I support our democracy well
20:39we have a representative democracy and
20:41you just said represent words in my
20:43mouth I think I'm just I'm just
20:44repeating what you said I'm trying to
20:46not you you you just said that you
20:48support democracy and I said okay well
20:49in our democracy half the states decided
20:52to severely limit or outright ban
20:54abortion and you said well you're
20:55assuming that we're a direct democracy I
20:57said no we're a representative democracy
20:58I didn't say that we were a direct I was
21:00explaining to you that we do not live in
21:02a direct democ right but but then I said
21:04right we're we live in a representative
21:06democracy and you said well that's not
21:07representative of the people but then
21:09that what that would mean is you support
21:11some kind of democracy in theory but you
21:13don't support the actual one we have
21:15here which Outlaws abortion in half the
21:18states after roie Wade is overruled I
21:20prefer democracy to actually genuinely
21:24represent the feelings and best
21:26interests of the people living that
21:29democracy once in a while I mean do
21:32believe the government do you uh 100%
21:35agree with the government of the United
21:37States on everything all the time no and
21:39would that mean that you hate Democracy
21:41in America no I think sometimes most
21:43people disagree with me but it but that
21:46doesn't mean that I would sacrifice my
21:47view and the rightness and and the
21:49rightness or wrongness of my view to the
21:51the mob or something like 50% plus one
21:53if 50% plus one of the electorate came
21:55out and said that abortion is murder and
21:57we're going to ban it and circumstances
21:59would you still support democracy of
22:01course you would democracy democracy um
22:04what is that Winston Churchill quote
22:07that's the worst form of government
22:08other than all the other ones that have
22:09so you would support that absolutely you
22:11just got to convince 50% plus one of the
22:12people and you would be the biggest
22:13prolifer in the country ban abortion
22:15everywhere I mean I wouldn't agree with
22:17it but I would live with it you would
22:19live with that's
22:20good I again I don't believe in imposing
22:23my beliefs on others if the majority
22:26believes that abortion is murder then
22:29obviously I'd be forced to go along with
22:30that I don't believe in political
22:32violence what would I do that would be
22:33horrifying no W great all right so I
22:36might maybe I convinced you a little bit
22:37my talk then no that sort of sounds like
22:40I did but I just say that I'm not
22:42against political violence doesn't mean
22:45you said you would support support the
22:47outlawing of abortion if most people
22:48wanted it I don't think they're saying
22:50that they would totally comply um with
22:53the you know social acceptability of
22:56being pro-life I think they would still
22:57try to convince people within the
22:58marketplace of ideas what they believe
23:00in okay so you wouldn't accept the what
23:02the majority you just try to convince
23:04them otherwise I think they're trying to
23:06say they wouldn't override democracy
23:08with political violence they're not
23:09saying that no one had suggested that
23:11that would have been terrible Demi thank
23:13you very much it's great to talk to you
23:16Ferris I don't know whether or not I
23:18ultimately convinced Demi and Ferris I'm
23:21not sure they know yet either but what I
23:23am sure of is that their willingness to
23:26sit down to discuss a disagreement was
23:28much more impressive than the university
23:31administrator's desperate attempts to
23:33keep me off campus as my yaf campus tour
23:36continues I hope to find more students
23:39like Demi and Ferris who are willing to
23:41cross the picket line to hear what
23:42conservatives think and maybe even
23:44muster the courage to talk about these
23:47topics face to
23:50face

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