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Tough Love: Communicating Clearly and Effectively as a Leader — Transcript

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0:00being direct and candid can help us in
0:03the most challenging of communication
0:06situations my name is Matt Abrahams and
0:09I teach strategic communication at
0:10Stanford Graduate School of Business
0:13welcome to think fast talk smart the
0:16podcast today I'm excited to speak with
0:19Susan Rice Dr Rice is a visiting fellow
0:21at the Freeman spog Institute at
0:23Stamford and a distinguished visiting
0:25fellow at the Stanford Institute for
0:27human centered artificial intelligence
0:30she previously served as domestic policy
0:32adviser for President Biden and was
0:34President Obama's National Security
0:37adviser and the US permanent
0:39representative to the United Nations she
0:41is the author of The New York Times
0:42bestselling Memoir tough love my story
0:45of the things worth fighting for welcome
0:49I am so excited to have you join me
0:51today and I look forward to the
0:52conversation we're going to have me too
0:54thanks for having me Matt so let's get
0:56started you have led a variety of teams
0:59in or organizations throughout your
1:01career are there any specific leadership
1:03principles you follow or
1:05use I think good leadership first of all
1:07is about setting a vision and a
1:09direction and hopefully an ambitious
1:11Target it's about demonstrating passion
1:14and commitment to achieving that Target
1:16and hopefully to energizing the folks
1:19around you but to me ultimately
1:22leadership is about people it's about
1:23bringing others along with you towards
1:26that objective or goal and to do that
1:29people people have to feel not only
1:31wedded to the mission but valued in
1:35their role in contributing to the
1:36mission so I try very hard to find the
1:39best people and then giving those great
1:43people the space and the capacity and
1:45the power to do what they do best and
1:49give them the expectation that when they
1:52need direction or they need top level
1:54cover or they need somebody to blast
1:57through the barriers or you know
1:59consummate whatever it is that that they
2:01know when and how to seek that direction
2:04for me as a leader but I've also
2:07discovered that for people to feel
2:10valued and willing to give their utmost
2:13they've got to know that their leaders
2:16their teammates care about them as human
2:18beings and so to me that means that they
2:21need to know that their personal lives
2:24come first when the people we need and
2:26love need us most that it's okay to be
2:30there and that the team will fill in
2:31behind you and support you whether
2:33you're the most senior person on the
2:35team or the most Junior person on the
2:37team when I was National Security
2:39adviser my mom was very ill and she
2:42actually passed in the last month of the
2:44Obama Administration and you know
2:47President Obama very much led the same
2:48way he was a dad he was a real human
2:51being and he gave me the license to do
2:54what I had to do to be able to support
2:56my mom even as I was doing my job 24/7
3:00as National Security adviser and that's
3:03the same way that I tried to to lead my
3:06teams and give everybody on the team
3:08that same Grace I appreciate you sharing
3:11that personal story thank you I think it
3:13demonstrates the type of leadership that
3:14you believe in it sounds like it's about
3:17finding the right people setting
3:19standards in Mission Vision and really
3:21supporting them both in their
3:23professional work but also in their
3:24personal lives I'm curious I can imagine
3:28giving feedback both positive and
3:30constructive is part of that how do you
3:32approach feedback giving it or getting
3:35it or both I'll take both but I'm
3:37curious about the giving part I'm very
3:39direct and I think you know the folks I
3:41work with expect that what they hear
3:44from me is you know what what they see
3:46is what they get I don't believe in
3:48playing games and going around people
3:50and being passive aggressive and all of
3:52that stuff I shoot straight and if
3:54somebody is you know doing particularly
3:56well I want to reinforce that and
3:58encourage it especially if there's been
4:00real progress if somebody is screwing up
4:03you I'll sit them down and explain you
4:05know what they are doing wrong what the
4:07expectations are and what I think they
4:09need to do to to do better and you know
4:12I will try to the best of my ability to
4:14do that especially in the first
4:16instances in a patient and you know kind
4:19if not always Gentle Way MH but I'm not
4:23averse to being more forceful if my
4:26sense is that there's not an interest or
4:28an effort at remediating
4:30I hear in your answer to your leadership
4:32approach and to your giving feedback
4:33that being very clear helping prioritize
4:36and being supportive when appropriate
4:38are part of that being candid and you
4:39asked you know about receiving feedback
4:42by the same token if you give it you got
4:44to be able to take it and so I've really
4:46benefited at various stages of my career
4:49from colleagues who've been as I would
4:51say kind enough to give me the hard
4:53truths or the tough love or whatever you
4:55want to call it to enable me to be
4:57better and help me to recognize where
4:59I'm falling short I think that's really
5:02important that people not only take the
5:05feedback but seek it out and and that's
5:07how we get better you know my favorite
5:09song from the musical Hamilton is in the
5:11room where it happens and you definitely
5:13have been in many of those rooms what
5:16insights can you provide into how best
5:18to negotiate in high-stake situations
5:21drawing in particular on my time in
5:23National Security at the United Nations
5:25where for example I was negotiating
5:28regularly with the Chinese and the
5:30Russians and other complicated in
5:33allocators on Security Council
5:35resolutions or the like or as National
5:37Security advisor negotiating
5:39arrangements with foreign governments I
5:42think very important to understand in
5:45the first instance what one's own bottom
5:48lines are and what do I need to walk
5:51away with must have in order for this to
5:54be successful or acceptable outcome for
5:57the people I'm negotiating on behalf of
6:00um but equally important to try to
6:02understand the interests and the
6:03motivations and to the extent possible
6:05the bottom lines of the people on the
6:07other side of the table believe it or
6:09not you know it's possible to negotiate
6:14tough things with competitors or
6:17adversaries if there's a willingness to
6:20understand what is making the other side
6:22tick what they you know view as their
6:25musthaves and then trying to explore
6:28whether there's any way to get to common
6:30ground it sounds like to me that in your
6:33approach to negotiation it's first about
6:34Clarity in your own position a bit of
6:37empathy to understand other people's
6:38position and I really like that idea of
6:41anchoring the bar high and that buys you
6:43some room to actually move around so
6:46those are some levers that you can pull
6:48to help so much fun tell me more about
6:51that so in all the roles you had do you
6:52find negotiation enjoyable I learned by
6:56in doing it that I really enjoyed it
6:58what's fun about negotiating is that
7:01you're not ever sure where you're going
7:02to end up it requires a whole range of
7:04skills from you know intellect to to to
7:07a little bit of you know canny to all of
7:10the things I just described you know
7:11humor charm I find that as a direct
7:14person being Direct in negotiations
7:16actually works much better than being
7:19somebody who's perceived as slippery or
7:23elusive or
7:24untrustworthy and then when you succeed
7:27the product is there tangible and the
7:30gratification is significant so I just
7:32find it fun the reason I was curious is
7:35a lot of people I talk to don't like
7:36negotiating they'd like to avoid it if
7:39they could and it's interesting to hear
7:40that for you it's something that's
7:42exciting because it gets to leverage
7:44some of the skills that you appreciate
7:45and of honed I like the outcomes of when
7:48you can get somewhere that's hard that
7:50you didn't know that you could get to
7:51and you know and what you come out with
7:53is tangible it's not quite immediate
7:56gratification but it's you know
7:57relatively quick tangible gratification
8:00well I appreciate that and I think it
8:01might be motivational to many people for
8:03whom negotiation is hard or something
8:06they try to avoid what advice can you
8:08give to people who find themselves in
8:10situations where they stand out as
8:12different from others in the groups that
8:13they work in be it because of their
8:15ideas their gender their race cultural
8:17background Etc you've worked with so
8:18many people who are different what
8:21advice do you give to people in those
8:23situations I mean this may sound simple
8:25and trit but I think people do best when
8:28they are themselves and believe in
8:30themselves and are not trying to be
8:32something that they're not yeah I've
8:33spent much of my career as one of the
8:36only or one of the few black Americans
8:38in the room or woman in the room or I
8:41could spend a lot of time being anxious
8:43about that and maybe you know trying to
8:47trim my sales or you know fit in or in
8:50some other way adapt myself to that
8:53environment and I I find one that's not
8:56very genuine but more importantly it's
8:58not very comfortable and I'm not
9:00bringing my best if I were to do that
9:03and so my dad used to have a saying that
9:06I really have taken to heart and he was
9:08talking about his experience growing up
9:10in the segregated South and serving in
9:13the segregated Army Air Force during
9:15World War II and then trying to break
9:18into the professional world as a PhD in
9:21economics in the 1950s when there were
9:23very few African-Americans and his whole
9:26career was one of sort of having to be
9:30the first or or the second through any
9:32given door and he had a saying which was
9:35if my being black is going to be a
9:37problem it's going to be a problem for
9:39somebody else and not for me meaning
9:42that if somebody you know is trying to
9:44make him feel uncomfortable or inferior
9:48or in some other way
9:50unwelcome in a given setting first of
9:53all it's about understanding why that
9:55person is doing that they're doing that
9:57because of their own insecurities in all
9:59likelihood or their own need to make
10:02another person feel small and you have
10:05an option of embracing their definition
10:07of you as your own or trying to resist
10:11that and building the muscles of mental
10:14self-esteem and not letting other people
10:17Define you for you and that was
10:19something that you know my parents beat
10:21into my head and my heart and and I
10:25think it's helped me quite a bit as I've
10:27been in environments where I may not
10:30have you know been an obvious fit in the
10:32first instance that notion of not
10:34letting other people Define us I think
10:36is a very powerful notion for many
10:38people in many situations I appreciate
10:40you sharing that before we end I'd like
10:42to ask you three questions one I'm going
10:44to create just for you and the two
10:45others are similar that I ask people
10:48across all these interviews are you up
10:50for that I will do my best excellent
10:52I've heard you tell this story once live
10:54and once elsewhere about some
10:56differences of opinion that exist in
10:58your own family would you share for our
11:00audience how your son a Stanford student
11:02Alum had a different perhaps political
11:05orientation at least while here versus
11:07yours and how did you negotiate that and
11:09how did you manage that well my eldest
11:12child is my son Jake as as we call him
11:15but he his given name is John um has
11:18always been really interested in events
11:21around him in the world and as he got
11:24older in politics and policy growing up
11:26in Washington DC as he did with family
11:29and where I grew up and yet somehow
11:32along the way somewhere in his early to
11:36mid teens having Once Upon a Time
11:38campaigned with me in the Snows of New
11:40Hampshire for Barack Obama he evolved
11:43into a rather conservative political
11:47mind and when he got here to Stanford
11:50after a a year or so ended up as
11:53president of Stanford College
11:54Republicans and stayed in that role
11:57through most of his time at Stanford and
12:01he was not a shy and retiring version of
12:03the president of Stanford College
12:05Republicans he was outspoken and
12:06unabashed and sought out debate and
12:09engagement with the Stanford College
12:11Democrats with other people of different
12:13Persuasions he brought conservative
12:16speakers to campus some of whom would
12:17not have been anything like my cup of
12:19tea and that was challenging because I
12:23had by that time a certain image
12:25nationally and he had a very different
12:28one and because of that there was you
12:30know some national attention or national
12:32news media particularly on the right who
12:34thought this was you know quite
12:36delightful but we are very close and I
12:39love both my children you know as deeply
12:42as it's possible to do so but we just
12:44disagree on a lot of policy issues not
12:47all of them but a lot and we vote
12:50differently but I'm proud of him because
12:52he has the courage of his convictions
12:55and it takes guts and I admire that but
12:58nonetheless we continue to disagree
13:00strenuously on many things and you know
13:02times it can get contentious now that
13:05he's grown up out of home married
13:07working all that stuff I don't get to
13:10see him that much so I try really hard
13:12not to squander the time that we have
13:15right arguing about politics but you
13:17know it's a it's a situation I think
13:19many people are familiar with in our
13:21family we try to prioritize the things
13:23that we share in our love over our
13:26political differences so finding that
13:28Common Ground I can't imagine where he
13:30gets his confidence and his strong from
13:34okay I see that I it must be it must be
13:36I'll be very curious to get your answer
13:37to question number two who is a
13:39communicator that you admire and
13:41why well I'm going to give two probably
13:44predictable answers but they're honest
13:46answers sure obviously really admire
13:48President Obama as a communicator he has
13:51an extraordinary ability to be relatable
13:54and clear mhm and passionate and funny
13:58and motive and all of these things in at
14:01different ways at different times and
14:04you know as a writer himself he spends
14:06time on his spoken words and I think is
14:09really reflected in in how he comes
14:12across so he's top of the list another
14:16is a friend and multiple time former
14:18colleague of mine who I admire
14:20enormously for her communication skills
14:22Jen saki who was most people know as
14:25President Biden's first White House
14:27spokesperson and now
14:29you know she's a an anchor on MSNBC but
14:32the reason I admire her is you I don't
14:36think I've ever seen a spokesperson with
14:39such you know clear direct plain English
14:44way of communicating but also she
14:47parried the Press so expertly with humor
14:50and forcefulness when needed but Grace
14:53and it I'm just watching her dance at
14:56that Podium was just brilliant and fun I
15:00hear in both of those responses a
15:02respect for people who take the art of
15:04communication very seriously and work on
15:06their
15:08abilities my final question for you what
15:11are the first three ingredients that go
15:13into a successful communication recipe I
15:16think being able to be clear not
15:18convoluted not overly flowery just clear
15:22and direct and on point is certainly one
15:26being concise when that's appropriate
15:29and you know none of us are perfect at
15:32that but I I think that's helpful and
15:35then structuring having a structured
15:37message so that you you've given some
15:39thought to what it is you're trying to
15:40say and the key points you're trying to
15:43get across not Meandering not veering
15:45not getting off track and I think if you
15:47have a structure to your thinking and to
15:49your message if you can deliver it
15:52without a lot of diversionary flourish
15:55and just to be mindful of who it is
15:58you're talking talking to your way of
16:00communicating in one venue might differ
16:02from that in another but I think the the
16:05key ingredients are are usually
16:07constants the notion of clarity
16:10concision structure and knowing your
16:12audience so well summarize the advice
16:15that we have heard across many episodes
16:18thank you very much for this opportunity
16:19to chat your cander your directness and
16:22your role modeling the specific
16:24behaviors that you preach and live your
16:27life by were really really powerful I
16:29appreciate your time and for your
16:31Insight thank you Matt it's been fun
16:33thank
16:34you thank you for joining us for another
16:37episode of think fast talk smart the
16:40podcast to learn more about effective
16:42leadership listen to episode 35 with
16:45Jeff EML this episode was produced by
16:48Jenny Luna Ryan Campos and me Matt
16:51Ibraham our music is from Floyd Wonder
16:54with thanks to Podium podcast Company
16:57please find us on YouTube and wh ever
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17:01subscribe and rate US also follow us on
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