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TOP Harvard Scientist: These 5 Habits Are Aging You Faster | David Sinclair | FO562 Raj Shamani — Transcript

by Raj Shamani · 25,235 words · 3,817 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00There was a study from Harvard that
0:01showed that the men who lived the
0:03longest, they actually had 14 years
0:05[music] of extra healthy life if they
0:06just did five things. Don't overdrink,
0:08don't smoke, don't be overweight, don't
0:11stress, and eat healthy. If you just do
0:13the basics, that's already 14 extra
0:15healthy years.
0:16>> Wow. I'm a scientist, work at Harvard
0:18Medical School, have been there for 25
0:20years, and my goal in life is to improve
0:22the life of everybody on the planet,
0:24potentially treat or cure all diseases.
0:26Here's a good point that I want to make
0:28for everybody. There are other things
0:29aging as well besides DNA damage. X-rays
0:31[music] break your DNA, by the way, but
0:33I can guarantee it's aging you every
0:34time we go to a rock concert [music] and
0:36we're blasting our ears. We go home with
0:38older ears than when we went to the
0:40concert. Tell me the ideal protocol for
0:43a young person.
0:43>> Try to eat less than three meals a day.
0:45See if you can join a gym so you can
0:47lift weights. If your gym has a sauna,
0:49great. And move, move, move, move. So,
0:52walk upstairs. Don't take the elevator.
0:54>> Give me specifics. What kind of other
0:56protocols will make me better? If you're
0:58not a young child in your [music] 20s,
1:00three main meals a day is too much.
1:02Reduce your number of meals down to two
1:04and you'll be good. That's been shown in
1:06many clinical trials to have vast health
1:08benefits. I read that you need to eat
1:10small six small meals in order to grow
1:13and get better.
1:14>> When you do the research, it's marketing
1:16food companies. Breakfast is not the
1:18most important meal of the day. That's a
1:19serial company marketing.
1:21>> No way.
1:22>> It is.
1:22>> You were telling me about fasting. What
1:24most people do is they say, "I'm going
1:25to stop eating for a day and see what
1:27happens." Then they say, "This is too
1:28hard. I'm hungry." That's the wrong way
1:30to do it. The way you would do it is
1:31don't stop eating immediately. Just have
1:33a smaller meal each day or eat something
1:35that's filling like a lot of vegetables.
1:37Perhaps some hot water. It's not just
1:39healthy to drink and cleans out your
1:41blood, but also it fills you up. You
1:43don't feel hungry. Once you get past 3
1:44days, what happens is remarkable. I went
1:47from feeling a little bit hungry, a
1:49little bit tired to my brain turned on.
1:51My body was making what are called
1:53ketones and the brain loves them. They
1:55fuel the brain. I was super awake. I was
1:57also more energetic.
1:59>> Wow. How? Okay, explain from the basics.
2:02Let's say why do we age and how every
2:04body cell or every body organ is aging
2:06differently.
2:07>> I have a little structure here that I
2:08brought to show you this to explain it.
2:11So, this is a piece of DNA. Okay.
2:15And actually, I [music] have another
2:15model to show you guys this.
2:22I have a small favor to ask you. I need
2:24you to subscribe to our channel. The
2:26more subscribers we have, the better and
2:29bigger guests we can bring and provide
2:31you more value through these
2:33conversations. And the full audio
2:35experience of this show is also
2:37available on Spotify where you can
2:39follow us and listen to the new episodes
2:41as well. Now, let's get into the
2:43episode.
2:48If someone's watching you for the first
2:50time, okay, and they have no clue who
2:52you are and what you do.
2:53>> That's like most people watching this.
2:55>> No, no, of course. So many people know.
2:57My audience would definitely know you.
2:59Like a lot of them, right? And we're
3:02honored to have you here.
3:03>> Oh, thanks for having me on, Raj.
3:05>> Thank you. But tell us if someone's
3:07watching you for the first time, what
3:09you do and why they should listen to you
3:12for the next hour.
3:14>> Goodness. Well, the first part's easy.
3:16What I do is I'm a scientist. Work at a
3:18Harvard Medical School. Have been there
3:19for 25 years. And my goal in life is to
3:22improve the life of everybody on the
3:25planet in a big way. Not just a little
3:27bit, not just one disease, but my goal
3:29is to potentially treat or cure all
3:32diseases, especially those that come
3:34with old age. So I work on aging and we
3:38are one of the leading labs to be able
3:41to reverse that process and we've just
3:43started human clinical trials to reverse
3:46aging. And so I guess that sounds pretty
3:49interesting. If if I just heard that I
3:51might listen. Um but yeah, basically
3:53what what I want to do today is explain
3:55why do we age? How do we slow it down?
3:58How can we reverse it? And what's going
3:59to happen if this clinical trial works
4:01in the humans? Is age reversal going to
4:04be possible for all of us one day?
4:06>> Is it going to be possible? How far do
4:08you think we are?
4:10>> Oh, we're so much further than I thought
4:11we would be. So, I just turned 57,
4:14right? And uh so I'm getting I'm getting
4:16older, but I didn't think in my lifetime
4:18I would see the advances that we've
4:20already made. For me, when I go to my
4:23lab, so I open the door and there's
4:25there's right now 40 kids doing research
4:27and they're doing amazing things. I have
4:30to pinch myself that this is actually
4:32happening right now. I'm living my my
4:35job is in the future decades ahead of
4:37where I thought we'd be. I used to talk
4:39about age reversal as though it was
4:41something that would be for the next
4:44generation of humans in the future 22nd
4:46century. M but we figured it out uh
4:50about 10 years ago that we could safely
4:54reinstall the software of cells
4:57and they they become young again
4:59essentially permanently until they get
5:01old again. And uh in the 10 years we've
5:03managed to go from human cells to mice
5:07to monkeys and now we've got people
5:11multiple people now being treated with
5:12an the world's first age reversal
5:14technology in the eye. initially.
5:17So it it's it's happening. It's not just
5:20theoretical. It's literally under FDA
5:23approval being tested right now in
5:25patients. Wow. How far have you what do
5:28you think like at what point someone
5:30like me or someone who's watching can
5:32just go
5:34>> to some some shop or some website and be
5:37like this is it. I want to take this or
5:39put this and then my eight starts
5:41getting reversed. One thing I find
5:42interesting is just the thought that you
5:45and I could go into my lab right now.
5:48>> Not that we would do this because we
5:50want to be very safe, but it would be
5:53theoretically possible for you and me to
5:54go into my lab and inject this drug ER
6:00100 uh into ourselves and maybe it would
6:04work. So, the the point I'm making is
6:06we're not going to go do that because we
6:07don't know how safe it is yet. We're
6:09testing that now.
6:10>> Yeah. But it might already exist. The
6:14ability for us to reverse the age in our
6:17bodies. If we take ER100, this drug
6:19stands for epigenetic reversal. We'll
6:21talk about it later, but this drug um we
6:26gave it to mice uh like I said, you
6:29know, years ago, and all of their
6:31diseases got cured, including including
6:33blindness. And then it worked in
6:35monkeys. And now hopefully we'll find
6:37out whether it it works and hopefully it
6:40will work in humans. But it exists. And
6:44if it works in people now this year,
6:48it's probably only a few years away from
6:51being a drug that doctors could use.
6:54>> Wow.
6:56>> And we're already working on versions of
6:58the drug that are not just for the eye,
7:01but could be to treat the whole body
7:03like we did in mice. And when you when
7:05you do this in mice, they live longer,
7:07they'd get younger. And so I wouldn't
7:10yet say, of course, we're all going to
7:11live 100% longer remaining lifespan.
7:15I'd be happy with a few years just to
7:16start with. But it's similar to the
7:19weight loss drugs
7:20>> from think back 10 years ago. Nobody
7:23thought it'd be that easy to lose
7:24weight. But then obesity in the US was
7:26declared a disease.
7:29And we have drugs now. In fact, we have
7:31pills that are as good now as the
7:33injectables.
7:35The same thing is going to happen, I
7:36believe, with aging.
7:38>> Aging will be declared a medical
7:39condition or a disease. That's what my
7:41book lifespan talks about. And that
7:44doctors will one day probably for you,
7:47you're still young. You probably won't
7:49want to try it for another 5 to 10
7:52years. I wouldn't rush it. But for those
7:54people who are 80 or 90, what have they
7:56got to lose really? If it's if it looks
7:58safe, their body's deteriorating, they
8:01got diseases, aches and pains, they're
8:03going blind. Hey, there's a lot
8:06>> Yeah.
8:06>> a lot to gain and not a lot to lose.
8:08>> True. When you say aging,
8:10>> Yeah.
8:11>> right?
8:12>> My passport has one age, which is my
8:15actual age. Right.
8:17>> Then
8:19everything in my body, all my body
8:21organs, they have different age than my
8:24passport age than my actual age.
8:26>> That's right. And it's like every organ
8:28has different age or like my there are
8:30just two ages or there like multiple
8:31ages inside me.
8:33>> You're made up of over 20 trillion cells
8:36and each cell has a different age
8:39and and it's
8:40>> so my brain, my heart, my immune system,
8:42everybody, everything is of different
8:44age.
8:44>> Yes. And depending on how you treat your
8:46body, it can age at different rates. If
8:49you were to smoke and get obese and not
8:51exercise, uh parts of your body would
8:54age faster and be older than your actual
8:56age. And vice versa, you can age slower.
8:59And even identical twins with the same
9:01DNA can be 10 years apart in their
9:04actual biological age.
9:07>> And so you're saying even the biological
9:09age of every organ is different. It's
9:11not one,
9:12>> right?
9:13>> So which one's making me sicker?
9:15[laughter]
9:15>> We'd have to analyze. I could do a blood
9:17test and have a look or even a cheek
9:19swab and have a look at how you're doing
9:21over there's a clock that's in every
9:23cell that we can read now.
9:25>> And is it possible that maybe let's say
9:27my heart is older and my brain is
9:31younger?
9:32>> Absolutely. That's almost certainly
9:35happening already. Even a baby will have
9:38organs that are different ages.
9:40>> And is the oldest part making me sicker
9:42the most? Uh it depends on the organ,
9:46right? If your heart is older, uh and
9:49you're in your 20s, you're probably not
9:51feeling anything yet. But in your 50s,
9:53you'll feel it. And 60s, you could die
9:55from it if your heart is older. And uh
9:58and that's one of the reasons we need to
9:59work on aging. If you have an old heart
10:02or your mother does, we can target her
10:04heart and make her heart young.
10:06>> Wow. How Okay, explain from the basics.
10:09let's say why do we age and how every
10:12body cell or every body organ is aging
10:15differently.
10:16>> Yeah. Well, there is a clock in every
10:19cell.
10:20>> Uh and we used to think it was uh the
10:23mutations, the defects in the DNA, but
10:27actually we we learned that the DNA
10:29itself can be rejuvenated. So the DNA
10:32from an old animal can be used to make a
10:34young animal. In fact, if you were to
10:37have children, uh, they would be your
10:40age for the first week of conception,
10:42the first week of life, the same age as
10:44their parents cells.
10:46But then there's a reset switch.
10:49>> So, the point is we we used to think it
10:51was DNA and the mutations, the defects
10:55in your DNA. It's it's almost certainly
10:57not that. It's something else, but it's
11:00related to your DNA. what I've proposed
11:04and it's not fully accepted like all
11:07scientific theories I have to say but it
11:09has become one of the most prominent
11:11theories and that's it's called the
11:13information theory of aging
11:15>> okay
11:16>> so what is that what is that I'm glad
11:17you asked Raj the information theory of
11:19aging says it's not DNA it's not the
11:22genome it's something called the
11:24epigenome
11:26so the epiggenome is the control systems
11:30that read the DNA Okay. So, a little bit
11:32of biology. In every cell, you've got
11:36about 6 ft of DNA in every cell. It's a
11:39it's it's a lot of information.
11:41>> Yeah.
11:41>> Uh and those little chemicals. I I have
11:43a little structure here that I brought
11:45to show you this to explain it.
11:47>> So, this is a piece of DNA.
11:49>> Okay.
11:50>> 6 ft of this
11:51>> in every cell.
11:52>> Every cell. But it's wrapped up very
11:54tightly microscopically.
11:56>> And if you put all your cells end to
11:57end, it would go to the moon and back
11:59eight times. It's a lot of chemical, but
12:01it's very thin and you can wrap it up
12:03around proteins. So, it's it's compact.
12:07Each one of these uh steps in the ladder
12:10>> is a bit of information
12:13and uh there are four letters in DNA. A
12:16matches with T and G matches with C
12:21and it's double stranded. So, this looks
12:23like a spiral staircase.
12:24>> Yeah.
12:25One strand is running up, this one's
12:27going up, and this one's running down.
12:30>> And the way you copy your DNA is it
12:33splits them apart. So the stairs come
12:35apart, and then the cell puts one uh
12:39part of the the the stair there and
12:41another part of the stair there. And now
12:43you've got two stairs. And now you can
12:47split the cell. Now you got two cells.
12:49All right? So this is DNA. M
12:52>> and we used to think that changes to the
12:53steps were the cause of aging. What I'm
12:56saying is in my theory, you've got your
12:59DNA is largely intact. In fact, if you
13:01take a 100-year-old cell, you can make a
13:04young organism again, you can even make
13:06a young mouse out of a cancer cell. It's
13:09the DNA is not as big of a problem as he
13:11thought.
13:12>> Okay.
13:12>> Okay. So, what's the epiggenome? The
13:14epiggenome
13:16are the control systems that that
13:18package the DNA.
13:20So DNA is not just floating around six
13:23feet. It's wrapped up tightly in little
13:25bundles. And actually I have another
13:27model to show you guys this.
13:30Okay. So in this model the DNA is blue
13:34and it's wrapped around these tennis
13:36balls. These are proteins. So the DNA
13:39gets packaged. But so you can see that
13:42now the DNA which is this blue velcro is
13:46>> it's not 6 ft. It's now much much more
13:49tightly packaged.
13:51>> Now there's a problem once you've made
13:53the tight package in the cell.
13:56>> How do you read the gene? How do you
13:57read the DNA? Cuz you have to get at it
14:00to read it.
14:01>> So what the cell does, it says, "All
14:03right, a gene that needs to be turned
14:05on. Let's say a gene for making a nerve
14:08cell.
14:10>> Let's turn that one on, but keep the
14:12liver cell closed because you don't want
14:14the liver to to be expressed." What it
14:17does is it unwraps these proteins so
14:21that
14:23now
14:25you'll even take them off a bit like
14:27this. Now the cell can read that gene.
14:30Okay, that DNA is accessible whereas
14:33these other ones are closed. So this is
14:36open what we call chromatin. Open
14:38chromatin and then this over here is
14:40closed chromatin. Gene is on in the
14:43middle gene is off on the left.
14:45That's the epiggenome.
14:48Okay. And every cell has a slightly
14:51different pattern of open and bundled.
14:54Open, bundle, open, bundle. There's
14:56about 20,000 genes. Different patterns.
14:59I think of it sometimes like a piano. We
15:02all have the same notes. Every cell has
15:03the same keys, but the way they're
15:06played, if each gene is a note, the cell
15:08plays beautiful music, but differently
15:10for each, but it's the same instrument
15:13in every cell.
15:16>> So, what I'm telling you is the blue,
15:18this DNA is not changing with aging.
15:20>> Your mother has the same DNA essentially
15:23that she had when she was a baby, but
15:25the way it's packaged changes,
15:27>> right? Genes that were once open and
15:31working great and making the cell
15:33healthy, they start to get closed like
15:36this. And genes that should stay closed
15:40start to open up. Let's see if I can
15:41open up this one. All right. So, let's
15:44say this this protein flies away.
15:47>> This tennis ball.
15:48>> Yeah.
15:49>> Here we go. Now, now your your mother's
15:51DNA has lost one of these proteins. and
15:54a gene that is for the liver is now
15:58coming on in her brain. And your her
16:01brain cells are forgetting how to be
16:02brain cells. They're starting to be a
16:05little bit more like liver cells. And
16:07that's what we see. This is what we call
16:10changes to the epiggenome.
16:12>> Okay?
16:15And another way to think of it is
16:17epigenetic noise. Okay? When you're
16:20young, it's perfect. When you're old,
16:22this whole thing gets unrang unraveled,
16:25tangled. It's a huge mess.
16:27>> Okay.
16:27>> So, we discovered this in and published
16:29it in 2023 in the journal cell. It was
16:3313 years of work. We tested this. Do you
16:36want to know how we tested it?
16:38>> Well, we in the first 10 years of my
16:41lab,
16:42>> uh, we tested in in human cells and that
16:44wasn't that difficult.
16:45>> But then we need to test it in a in an
16:47animal. So, how do you test whether this
16:51>> causes aging? We needed to do this in a
16:54mouse.
16:54>> Yeah,
16:55>> like that.
16:56>> Okay,
16:57>> we need to do this in a young mouse. And
16:59if we're right and we do this in a young
17:00mouse, what's going to happen to the
17:01mouse?
17:02>> It's going to age.
17:02>> It's going to age. So, we did that.
17:05>> The way we did it was
17:07>> we now now this gets interesting. We
17:10distracted the proteins that control the
17:12epiggenome
17:13>> because they they don't just wrap the
17:15DNA,
17:16>> okay? They actually repair DNA. So we
17:18were creating a few cuts in the DNA. So
17:21here's this is basically blow up of the
17:24DNA.
17:25>> We would cut cut it
17:27>> right through the yellow.
17:30>> And these proteins now they say, "Oh my
17:32goodness, we have to go repair the DNA."
17:34So they
17:35>> they move. They go to the broken DNA.
17:38They help repair it. They wrap it up
17:39again.
17:41And then if all goes well,
17:44they go back to where they came from.
17:46But here's the problem. We noticed that
17:48they don't all go back. Sometimes
17:52sometimes they get lost. They're gone.
17:54>> So now the gene that should be wrapped
17:56up is now exposed and the cell is
18:00reading the wrong gene. [snorts]
18:02>> So we did this to a mouse. We cut the
18:03DNA for 2 weeks when they were young.
18:07>> And then we waited cuz nothing happened.
18:09Nothing immediately happened. The mice
18:11were happy. They're running around the
18:12cage. Similar if you got an X-ray.
18:15X-rays break your your DNA, by the way.
18:17>> Okay.
18:18>> Do you feel anything?
18:19>> No.
18:19>> No. So, broken DNA doesn't hurt,
18:22>> but I can guarantee it's aging you
18:24because
18:24>> every X-ray is aging me.
18:26>> Absolutely. There's no question. We did
18:29this to the mouse, not by X-rays, but we
18:31used a very precise cutting enzyme.
18:34>> And we did that for 2 weeks. A little
18:36bit more severe than an X-ray.
18:38>> And we waited and we waited. We waited.
18:41And 10 months later, we looked at the
18:45mice and it's now a very famous photo on
18:48the internet. The brother and the sister
18:52are next to each other. The brother was
18:54not treated. Healthy, shiny coat,
18:57running around the cage, black coat. Uh
19:00the other one hunched back, wrinkled
19:03skin, gray,
19:05uh not moving around, and couldn't
19:08remember anything. in just two weeks.
19:11>> No, it took months after, but the twoe
19:13treatment was enough to to start this
19:16process of unraveling that it was like
19:20dominoes led led to aging. We got aging.
19:23>> Uh and that was probably the hardest
19:26experiment we've ever done. It was 40 40
19:28scientists,
19:3013 years of work, but we got the result
19:32that the theory predicted that
19:35unraveling the DNA leads to aging in an
19:39animal. And the reason it took actually
19:42uh 13 years was
19:44a lot of scientists said an old looking
19:48mouse is not an old mouse.
19:50>> It could be gray for other reasons.
19:52>> Yeah. So it took us about a decade to
19:56satisfy our peers, our other scientists
19:59who are trying to disprove us that these
20:01truly were old mice. So how did we do
20:03it? We looked at their tissues. We
20:05looked at so you know hisystologology.
20:07We cut the tissue. We looked at it.
20:10We gave it to other scientists to
20:11analyze experts in the eye, the liver,
20:13the brain. And they sent us back the
20:16results and they said, "This one's an
20:18old mouse." And we said, "No, it's not.
20:20It's the same age as the other one. it's
20:22just been accelerated. Um, we also could
20:25use the clock. Do you remember how we
20:27talked about we can measure your
20:29biological age by looking at cells? We
20:32could do that with mice, too. And those
20:34mice that we did this unraveling, they
20:37were 50% older than their twins born on
20:40the same day.
20:43>> Wow.
20:44>> But you only tried it on mice or did you
20:47tried it on monkeys as well because
20:48monkeys are the closest to human beings,
20:50right? Well, so here was the question
20:52that I had about 10 years ago.
20:56>> Do we keep studying age acceleration or
20:59do we do what I really want to do with
21:01my life?
21:04>> Take it away because if you can give
21:07aging, maybe you can take it away. And
21:11so we stopped working on age
21:12acceleration so much that we use it as a
21:15tool to make mice with gray hair to
21:18study gray hair and skin aging. But at
21:21that point I said, "All right, now let's
21:24figure out if we can take an old
21:27epiggenome that's all like messed up and
21:30maybe there's a way to get it to go back
21:33to being young again like that.
21:36>> Can you reverse aging?" And that's
21:39crazy. How would that be possible?
21:41Theoretically, it made no sense that it
21:43might be possible.
21:44>> But we know that embryos get young, they
21:47can reset. Remember I said after the
21:49first week of age, you can go back in
21:50time.
21:52>> So my guess, my hunch was that there's a
21:55reset switch in the cell. We just need
21:57to find the switch. We didn't want to
21:59repeat what was done in 2000, early
22:012000. But I do want to mention the guy's
22:03name. I was just in in Japan, actually.
22:05Um and so he's a legend there. Uh
22:08Professor Shina Yamanaka, he came up
22:11with four genes.
22:13You can use more genes. You can use 10,
22:1520 genes, but he needed at least four
22:17genes uh to make those cells go back to
22:20being stem cells.
22:23So we had the idea, why don't we try
22:27just a few of them? But no one thought
22:29to do that because the Nobel committee
22:31and Yamanaka said, you need all four for
22:33it to work. I said, "Well, let's try
22:35three or two or one. Maybe that would
22:38help. Maybe we could go partially back
22:41to being young, but not so much that we
22:43get cancer and lose the identity." Now,
22:45remember, we want the cell to get their
22:48identity back.
22:49>> Yeah.
22:49>> Not to lose it.
22:50>> Yeah.
22:51>> That was the trick. Yamaka lost the
22:53identity. We want to do the opposite.
22:55So, how did we do that? We decided to
22:57take away one of the genes. We took away
23:00a gene called CMIC
23:03which is short we call it M for short M
23:08and the reason we chose that that one is
23:10that it's a cancercausing gene. Seemic
23:13is we know causes cancer so we didn't
23:15want that anyway. So one put three of
23:18the Yamanaka genes into human old human
23:20cells
23:23OSK for short which are now legendary
23:26genes uh for this treatment. And what he
23:29found in the next week was that those
23:31cells went back about 80%
23:3475 80% to being young. Got their
23:37identity back. They remembered how to be
23:39skin cells. They grew better. They were
23:41more robust, healthier, but they never
23:43ever ever got to be stem cells because
23:45we didn't have the M the Mick
23:48>> to create the stem cells. Now, that was
23:50in in human cells. That was in the year
23:522017,
23:54right? It's a long time ago.
23:55>> Yeah. But the next question that's
23:57really interesting that one decided to
23:59do was what if we do this in an animal?
24:02>> Will it heal it or will it kill it or
24:05hurt it?
24:06>> We don't want to hurt animals, but we
24:08wanted to test if it could help the
24:09animal. And one decided to do the eye.
24:13>> I thought that was a crazy idea. I
24:15thought, let's do the liver. The liver
24:16is easy.
24:17>> But the eye, you kidding me? That's
24:19complicated. So he figured out how to do
24:21that. He put Actually, I have a model
24:24here to show you. He put the genes, the
24:27three genes inside a virus like
24:29particle. This is like one of these
24:31things.
24:33It is a a capsule with a membrane with
24:37proteins. I mean, you might have seen
24:38pictures of this. It's like
24:40>> any any virus.
24:41>> Yeah.
24:42>> But inside is this protein pocket. And
24:46now you can put your OSK age reversal
24:50genes in there
24:52>> and you can make trillions of these in
24:55the lab, put them in a syringe and
24:58inject them anywhere you want. And the
25:00virus will infect
25:02the cells of the body. If you put it in
25:05the eye, it'll go into the eye cells. If
25:07you put it into the vein, it'll go to
25:09your liver and your lungs. And when it
25:11gets inside the cell,
25:15it opens up and delivers the DNA. So
25:18that's how we get DNA into cells.
25:21>> That's how we cure genetic diseases
25:23currently. It's called an AAV. And there
25:26are different flavors. There's ones that
25:28scientists use for the eye, some that
25:30are engineered for the liver, different
25:32flavors. We used one called AAV2, which
25:35is designed to uh hit the retina. M
25:39>> and one Cheng's idea, the brilliant idea
25:41was let's see if we can make damaged
25:45optic nerves heal again.
25:47>> M
25:48>> why? Because all animals don't heal
25:52their eye. In fact, if I hurt your eye,
25:55you would not regrow your optic nerve.
25:57>> Yeah.
25:58>> Same with your spine. If if you break
25:59your back, you're not going to walk
26:00again.
26:01>> But very young animals, even very young
26:04humans, can regrow their nerves. So, one
26:07said, "If we can take them back to being
26:09like a baby again, we'll see that the
26:12animal can regrow the optic nerve." And
26:15uh he texted me a result. When was it
26:182018? And he sent me a photo of a nerve.
26:21The first one was dead. So, a little bit
26:24of color, but mostly it was black. He
26:27said, "Do do you see that?" I went,
26:28"Yeah." He goes, "Now look at this one."
26:30The next text was a beautiful regrown
26:34optic nerve that regrrew within 2 weeks
26:37back to being young and fresh again. It
26:40it had regrown and this had never been
26:42done before at this this level. And Wang
26:46said, "Do you see what I see?" And I
26:48said, "I think I see it." And he said,
26:50"What do you see?" And I said, "I see
26:52the future." And that picture of that
26:55that nerve is now flipped vertically and
26:57is in on the wall of the house at home
27:00because that was a moment that I'll
27:01never forget. I get tingles in my body.
27:05I'm getting them now just thinking about
27:07that moment because that was the first
27:09evidence that safe age reversal was
27:11possible in mammals in complex organisms
27:15just in the eye. But we knew it if it
27:17worked in the eye it should work
27:18anywhere. We didn't choose the eye
27:20because it would work better. So you're
27:21telling me a damaged eye, damaged optic
27:23nerve.
27:24>> Yeah.
27:25>> She's got completely reversed and got
27:28back to the repaired version. So it if
27:32this works,
27:33>> then what it possibly means is a blind
27:36person can see again.
27:39>> Well, what I can say as a scientist is
27:42we've cured blindness in mice. We've
27:47taken old mice that just can't see and
27:50then two weeks later they can see
27:52perfectly again perfectly like a young
27:54mouse. So it works in mice. That's a
27:56fact. The other fact is if you have a
27:59monkey with a damaged optic nerve, we
28:03can improve their vision
28:05in some cases almost to normal what they
28:09were before and now we're testing it in
28:12humans. So I think theoretically
28:15I would say most likely 80% 90% it will
28:20work in humans because our eyes are the
28:22same as monkeys. They're just a little
28:23bit bigger. The same same as the monkey
28:25eye and it worked really well in the
28:27monkey. And we can see that those nerves
28:29are getting younger. It's not just
28:31because they regrow from the damage but
28:34we can measure their age. Remember we
28:36can now measure the clock and the nerves
28:39got young again.
28:41And we didn't just use damaged nerves.
28:43We tested glaucoma which is a leading
28:46cause of blindness in India. It's very
28:47prevalent pressure in the eye. There's
28:5050 million people uh globally. uh it's
28:53one of the largest causes of blindness
28:55and we've cured that in mice and we hope
28:59in these studies now in people that
29:01we'll be able to greatly improve the
29:03vision of glaucoma patients as well
29:06>> and
29:08wow that's
29:10>> but this is just the beginning we we are
29:12just doing the eye because it's a good
29:14place to start it's a good place to put
29:15a virus
29:16>> and you did that in humans very recently
29:18right you did the first child yeah
29:21>> how many months ago
29:23um a few months ago.
29:25>> Okay. And till when we have to wait for
29:27the results or
29:29>> well this is where I have to get a
29:31little bit um
29:33uh scientific and and FDA uh
29:37>> under the regulation.
29:38>> Yeah. FDA approved. So it's an FDA
29:41approved study to test safety.
29:43>> Mhm.
29:44And so the the ultimate outcome of this
29:47study in terms of the FDA is did it hurt
29:52the patient? Did it spread out the eye?
29:55Like did it go anywhere else? Did it
29:57cause inflammation? Did it cause a
29:59cancer? That's why we're doing this
30:01study and we're starting very carefully.
30:04The first patient that we saw dosed um
30:07just got a very little dose, not a big
30:09one, and we just waited for a month to
30:12see what would happen. So now more
30:14people have been treated and we're
30:17waiting. But I know what you're asking.
30:19Will we know this year if it works and I
30:22could say between friends? Possibly
30:26because every patient is their own
30:29experiment.
30:31>> You measure their eyesight before
30:32treatment, during
30:35>> and actually for another 5 years. So, if
30:38it works, even though it's a small
30:40number of patients, it's only 18 people,
30:42we might see if it's working this year.
30:46Wow. I I hope it works out for everyone
30:50because this is going to be
30:53this is this is going to be one of the
30:55biggest
30:57this is going to make one of the biggest
30:59impacts in human life like all around
31:01the world because we could treat
31:03diseases. If we could just make people
31:06more healthy, like they don't have to
31:07suffer through all the things, all the
31:09things while they're even alive. Forget
31:11like coming back from 90 to being 50
31:14again, but at 90, can they at least feel
31:17and live like a a 40year-old, that is
31:20going to be incredible, right?
31:22>> Yeah. It's it's really worth pondering
31:24because we have to throw away our our
31:26misconceptions. The first misconception
31:28is that we're treating aging
31:31>> and that we're just trying to make frail
31:34people look better or feel better. This,
31:38if it works, could be a treatment for
31:41almost every disease known to humans. M
31:45>> we can improve in my lab multiple
31:47scerosis, wound healing, brain aging, so
31:51memory loss, uh the kidney, the heart,
31:54the muscles, liver. There's no part of
31:58the body that could not theoretically be
32:01improved, treated, healed, repaired,
32:04rejuvenated, restored by this
32:07technology. It's not just aging. It's
32:10all diseases. Even young children if
32:13they hurt themselves and they need to
32:15rejuvenate and and fix something that
32:17the body doesn't normally heal. Yes,
32:20lizards can regrow parts of their body
32:22and salamanders can regrow a whole arm.
32:25Maybe we can do that for ourselves one
32:27day too.
32:28>> But but explain while you're explaining
32:30I've written like few words and I want
32:32to go deeper in that. Okay. Like the
32:34most most basic thing is he said this is
32:37there in every human being right and if
32:40you cut these yellow part that's like
32:42damaging and we are damaging uh we are
32:46damaging on an everyday basis we're
32:48damaging 20 things maybe 20,000 things
32:51on an everyday basis in our life right
32:53>> uh every day you will get at least 20
32:56trillion of those breaks in your body
32:58>> so these
33:00the DNA is breaking in my body.
33:04>> Oh yes.
33:04>> Right. And that is causing the aging.
33:07Why is it breaking?
33:08>> Oh well.
33:10>> So why why am I getting older and why
33:13you versus me? Let's say there are two
33:15different people, right?
33:17>> In your body this this breakdown is
33:21happening probably let's say in a
33:23different way and in mine is happening
33:25faster or slower or I don't know why why
33:27is we all are born same right?
33:30>> Well partly it's depends on our parents.
33:32If our parents had good genes to repair
33:35DNA and stop breaking, um, then we have
33:38an advantage. People that live a long
33:40time have less broken DNA and have a
33:43much more stable epiggenome, so less
33:45epigenetic noise. And whales that live
33:47the longest of all mammals, they have
33:50low DNA damage and their epiggenome,
33:53those structures stay stable. Um, but
33:56between you and me, let's say, um, let's
34:00say I'm aging faster than you, okay?
34:02Let's let's say we're twins, right?
34:04Okay.
34:04>> And I I obviously don't look as young as
34:06you. So, what what what's wrong with my
34:08body?
34:09>> Well, one thing that might be different
34:11is that the the enzymes that mop up free
34:14radicals. Um, so I'm drinking coffee,
34:17right? It's it's got free radicals is
34:19coffee has quite a lot of hydrogen
34:20peroxide in it. And you're drinking,
34:23let's say, you're drinking coffee. I
34:24think that's water.
34:25>> Mhm.
34:26>> But maybe I don't repair my broken DNA
34:28faster as fast as you do. And that means
34:31that these these proteins that hold the
34:34DNA in place, uh, they don't get
34:36distracted as quickly. Um, the other
34:40thing might happen is that the these
34:41these proteins that go away in your
34:44body, maybe they find their way back
34:46better than in my body for whatever
34:48reason. There's a better signal to come
34:49back. But why why mine are probably
34:52better and yours are not?
34:54>> Well, there's lots of different reasons.
34:56Uh, one is that um there are signals
35:00that tell proteins where to go in the
35:02cell.
35:03>> I'll give you an example.
35:05Okay, this is a tennis ball, but let's
35:07imagine it's a protein.
35:11>> Proteins get modified. They don't just
35:14get folded. Okay, there's a folded amino
35:16acid sequence.
35:18All of our proteins get modified uh and
35:21I've got this little thing. This
35:22represents
35:24what we call acetilation. It's
35:26>> okay.
35:27>> Uh
35:30it gets attached to typically an amino
35:32acid called lysine.
35:34>> And now that this has been acetilated,
35:36it will behave differently. It will be
35:39active and will help repair the DNA and
35:42it will go and fold up the DNA better
35:45because it's got this attached. And
35:47maybe your body puts these on more
35:49frequently than my body does to make
35:51this protein more active.
35:53>> That's a difference between people.
35:55>> But yeah, go ahead. You were saying
35:57something.
35:57>> Well, there's another big difference
35:59that is not
36:00>> genetic.
36:02>> It's actually as important as the
36:04genetic parent component. And this is
36:07the good news.
36:09The way you live your life impacts the
36:12pace of aging and how much DNA damage
36:14there is. Right? So, if you don't get a
36:16lot of X-rays, you don't fly a lot and
36:18get hit by cosmic rays, um you don't get
36:21CT scans. Okay, that's one thing that
36:23would give you an advantage. If you eat
36:25a lot of colored plants, uh I call this
36:29xenormis, but basically Serena uh says
36:32eat colored food, eat the rainbow.
36:35Colored food has chemicals that help
36:37repair DNA, that help proteins
36:43bind up the epiggenome. And these
36:46chemicals we get from our food supply.
36:48Now, if we eat a a regular lettuce from
36:51California that's that's not or I don't
36:54know where in India they grow terrible
36:55food, but if it's just grown mass market
36:57and it's not colorful like a what you
36:59call iceberg lettuce,
37:01>> that's not going to have a lot of these
37:02what we call polyphenol chemicals.
37:05But if you eat gee, it would be the
37:08best. So green tea matcha is full with
37:10it. Um there's a bit in red wine, but we
37:14don't like alcohol anymore. Another good
37:16one would be dark green leafy
37:19vegetables. Um spinach.
37:22Anything that's got a lot of color will
37:24have chemicals that like bell peppers
37:26and stuff that help.
37:26>> Bell peppers are great. The other thing
37:28that helps plants become colorful is
37:31adversity, stress.
37:34So if you eat a great healthy
37:36plant-based diet, not not you don't get
37:39from from meat, by the way. So my diet
37:42and Serena's is is plant focused for
37:45that reason. It's healthier. And these
37:47chemicals come from plants, not from
37:48animals. That's an advantage that we can
37:51all have. And then there's the usual
37:53things, running, right? Moving, fasting.
37:57These also boost the activity of these
38:00proteins that help repair DNA and help
38:03bind up the epiggenome and stabilize it.
38:06So this is some of the things my lab has
38:07done over the last 25 years is to
38:10connect what we live, how we live, what
38:12we eat, how we move to this process of
38:15aging.
38:17>> What I'll come to activities later but
38:21before we go to colored plants, what is
38:24there in colored plants? like why
38:26specific
38:29why specific very dark colored plants
38:31are better not the normal colored
38:34plants.
38:35>> Okay.
38:36>> So xen
38:37>> when I look at two plants they look same
38:38to me like a lettuce look lettuce or a
38:40spinach would look like a spinach.
38:42>> Yeah.
38:42>> The darker spinach will be better for
38:44me. That's what you're trying to say.
38:45>> Yes. Yes.
38:46>> And and why
38:48>> why so this comes to my theory called
38:51xenormmesis.
38:52>> Okay.
38:52>> It's not just my theory. I came up with
38:54it with a colleague of mine who I want
38:56to mention Conrad Howitz. So in 2006 we
38:59published this theory and the idea came
39:03from the observation that we couldn't
39:05couldn't explain this observation with
39:07current theory at the time
39:09in the pharmaceutical world almost all
39:12drugs are based on plant molecules.
39:16Aspirin for example a lot of the cancer
39:18drugs these are plant originally plant
39:20molecules. Even metformin which is for
39:23diabetes very popular in India.
39:27It comes from a plant uh which is goat r
39:30it's called in Europe. So why are these
39:33plant molecules so good for us? It makes
39:36no sense. The plants don't care about us
39:38do they? I don't think so.
39:40Xeno hermesis hypothesis says that when
39:44plants need to survive too much shade or
39:48not enough water in the case of grapes
39:50where they dry out right they try to
39:53survive the plants make these chemicals
39:56many of which are colored
39:57>> they have color not all of them but many
39:59of them colored and they make them to
40:01survive these are plant stress survival
40:05molecules polyphenols
40:08a polyphenol if you're wondering A
40:10phenol is a chemical ring.
40:13>> Do can you make it here?
40:15>> Yeah, sure. Anything.
40:17>> Yeah, there's a bit of chemistry lesson.
40:19>> Yeah, please.
40:20>> Uh, so phenolic a phenolic ring looks
40:23like this.
40:26>> Okay.
40:28>> Okay. And the all stands for like an an
40:32O, an alcohol on there. Well, just an a
40:36a polyphenol.
40:40Okay. So, this is a what's called a
40:42phenolic ring.
40:43>> Mhm.
40:43>> And you can make chemicals out of this
40:45structure. Plants make a lot of things
40:47out of it. There's one in uh easiest one
40:50to draw is in grapes uh called
40:52resveratrol and it it looks like this.
41:01These are, if you haven't done
41:02chemistry,
41:04>> what what's at these joints here are
41:06carbons.
41:07>> Mhm.
41:08>> Okay. And they all have a little
41:09hydrogen on there. But basically, this
41:12is two phenols connected by a bridge.
41:16>> Mhm.
41:17>> And this is resveratrol.
41:21Plants make this molecule, a polyphenol,
41:24phenol, two fallen phenols,
41:26>> when they want to survive, when they get
41:28stressed. If there's not enough light,
41:30not enough water or even infection by a
41:33fungus, they make a lot of this,
41:35especially grapes, but most plants make
41:37this. And when you drink red wine,
41:39you're getting a lot of this.
41:41>> If there just wasn't so much alcohol,
41:43it'd be even healthier. But you can buy
41:45rveratrol. I've been taking resveratrol
41:47powder every morning for the last
41:50probably 20 years because I truly
41:52believe that resveratrol is one of the
41:54polyphenols that can slow down aging.
41:56Why? Because one of the proteins that
41:59controls the epiggenome which we study
42:02called one gets activated by this
42:04molecule. So when I'm eating rveratrol
42:06in the morning, my body gets filled with
42:08it. I eat about a gram. So it's a lot.
42:10It floats through the body, gets inside
42:12the cell, and it makes my epigenetic
42:15regulator more active, so I'm not going
42:19to age so quickly is the theory. That's
42:22why. But you can eat stressed plants,
42:24which make these molecules.
42:25>> Stressed plants.
42:26>> Stressed plants are good for you.
42:27Colored ones. Yeah.
42:28>> So, because they're stressed, they're
42:30trying to survive.
42:31>> And that the stuff that they're making a
42:34little thing inside them which helps
42:36them make which helps them survive for
42:38longer. That is the stuff that we need.
42:41>> Mhm.
42:41>> It helps us survive as well.
42:43>> It does. And why is is a good question.
42:45Why would they make us survive better?
42:48My theory is it's because we get a
42:51signal when our food supply is going to
42:53run out. Our bodies will hunker down and
42:56try to survive and be stronger. So these
42:59chemicals signal human adversity in the
43:02future. M
43:03>> and by eating rveratrol every morning
43:06I'm tricking my body into thinking that
43:08food supply might run out.
43:10>> Big famine is coming.
43:11>> Exactly. [laughter] Famine is coming.
43:14Exactly. Yeah.
43:18>> This is I never knew that science is
43:21going to be this interesting for me.
43:23[laughter]
43:24Okay. So So that's why you want to eat
43:27colored plants and that's why it's make
43:29it's making us better. So that was the
43:31first part.
43:32The second is what's happening inside my
43:36body as I sit here right now. Okay, I'm
43:39I'm on this chair right now and this is
43:41making me older, right? As I'm just
43:44sitting here.
43:45>> Yes.
43:46>> Why? Like what's happening inside my
43:48body? What's happening inside each of my
43:50cells which is making me older?
43:52>> Well, there's a few things that are
43:54happening. Um there are at least 12
43:56major causes of aging. Um, I just happen
43:58to think that what what we're talking
44:00about here with the epiggenome is the is
44:01one of the primary major ones.
44:03>> Yeah.
44:04>> But some of the things that are
44:05happening are the ends of your
44:07chromosomes, the DNA. If this is the end
44:09of a chromosome,
44:11>> it's getting chewed away slowly. Every
44:12time the cell divides, it gets shorter.
44:15So, these are like fuses that get
44:16shorter.
44:17>> Uh, that happens particularly in cells
44:20that divide a lot like your blood cells
44:22and your liver. That's one thing. Um,
44:24your stem cells are getting older. The
44:27one thing though that you can't stop is
44:30this DNA breakage. This is happening
44:32even if even if I put you in a lead box
44:35at the bottom of the ocean with no
44:37X-rays, no cosmic rays, DNA still
44:40breaks. Why? Because during the copying
44:43process, remember how I said DNA copies
44:46by unzipping this down the middle.
44:50>> Cut it down the middle. Now you get two
44:51strands.
44:52>> Yeah.
44:53As you do that to the six foot long
44:56piece, inevitably it's going to break
45:00once or twice every time. It's weak.
45:03>> You can't stop it. So the process of
45:04being alive
45:06>> is causing DNA breaks. So you you cannot
45:09stop that.
45:10>> But can I slow that down?
45:12>> Yes. By eating the right foods, by
45:14exercising, by fasting.
45:15>> Okay.
45:16>> Uh by doing all those good things will
45:19slow down that process.
45:21>> Okay. You said slowing down comes with
45:25let's say eating colorful plants. That's
45:27one one way of doing it. What's there in
45:29meat? Why? Because meat has lot of
45:32protein. Meat has a lot of good things.
45:34A lot of people will argue that you
45:36should start eating liver and whatever.
45:37I don't
45:38>> Yeah, but that's not going to give you
45:39longevity. It's going to give you, you
45:41know, some some strength and you're
45:42going to build muscle a bit bit faster.
45:44Not a lot faster, but a bit. But that's
45:47not longevity. Here's one way to think
45:49of it.
45:51There's adversity mode, right? So, the
45:53body thinks that it's stressed. There's
45:55this and then there's abundance mode.
45:58Lots of meat, just killed a mammoth,
46:00lots of food, energy, fat, protein.
46:04This is this abundance mode accelerates
46:07aging. And adversity mode, as we've
46:10talked about, slows this down,
46:13>> protects the body. So, if you want to be
46:16in abundance mode and grow big and be
46:18Mr. universe. Live this lifestyle. If
46:21you want to live a long time,
46:23be in adversity. Fast, eat plants, run.
46:28That's signals of adversity to the body
46:31to preserve the body. Preservation,
46:34growth.
46:35Or what you can do, what I what I think
46:38is probably the best for especially for
46:39someone young like you, do both.
46:42a few days a week, eat protein, work
46:45out, be abundant, but have some
46:47adversity, too. Sauna, running, fasting,
46:51that's also good.
46:53>> So, this applies in every every aspect
46:56of life. If I am making myself and my
46:59body stressed and trying to signal that
47:01I'm in adversity, then it's going to
47:04help me live longer.
47:05>> Yes. Now, we haven't done a human trial,
47:08so yes is the answer to all of the
47:12evidence in animals points to it being
47:15true in humans as well. But if you take
47:17a mouse and you feed it resveratrol or
47:20you feed it uh other polyphenols,
47:23yes, it will live longer and be
47:25healthier in general. It can be
47:27resistant to obesity. Even we we in 2006
47:31we published resveratrol given to fat
47:33mice makes them healthy as healthy and
47:35long lived as thin mice lean mice. Um so
47:40yes you you can eat these molecules and
47:43get the benefits of adversity without
47:47actually having to be hungry. But you
47:50might say well then why do I have to
47:51fast if just eating plants is good
47:53enough?
47:54>> I don't think it's good enough. What we
47:56found in my lab looking at these animals
47:58is if you do both, if you don't eat
48:02three meals a day or if you're a mouse,
48:03you don't constantly eat and you take
48:06these molecules as well in the diet, you
48:09get double the effect. So that's why in
48:12my lifestyle, I focus on plants, I
48:16exercise, I try to do, you know, hot,
48:18cold as much as I can, and I'm taking
48:21polyphenols every day. Uh, that's my
48:24belief. It's not proven yet, but all the
48:28science points to doing all of these
48:30things together. They're additive.
48:32>> Give me specifics. The way you gave me
48:34specific of how colorful plants will
48:37make you better. What kind of other
48:40protocols will make me better? Will it
48:42help me age slower? You you said
48:44running. You said so how much running?
48:46You said sauna or cold. Like how much of
48:49that? Like it's so many things right
48:51now. So, this is why I restarted my
48:53podcast
48:54>> and this is a shameless plug for my
48:55podcast. It's called Lifespan
48:58>> because I get these questions every day
48:59is what are the details. How much should
49:01I fast? What should I eat?
49:03>> If I'm a woman, is it different than
49:05being a man?
49:05>> Yeah.
49:06>> So, my my podcast has a lot of that.
49:08>> Okay.
49:08>> So, if you have a little bit of time,
49:09what I know you've watched some of it,
49:11so I appreciate that.
49:12>> But we we can cover some of it today,
49:13but it's re it really takes many days of
49:17listening to know all the details. But
49:19there are some some general rules. Let's
49:22start with fasting. Is that okay?
49:24>> Yeah.
49:24>> Okay. So, fasting
49:26>> uh if you're not a young child,
49:31>> let's say in your 20s, three main meals
49:34a day is too much,
49:37how many meals a day do you eat?
49:39>> Three.
49:40>> Three. [laughter]
49:41>> Do you think you could get away with
49:43two?
49:44>> Easily. cuz you can eat the same
49:46calories just
49:47>> reduce the window of eating.
49:50>> That's been shown many in many clinical
49:52trials even in humans to have vast
49:55health benefits.
49:56>> I read that you need to eat small six
49:58small meals in order to I mean grow and
50:01get better and
50:02>> yeah who told you that
50:03>> so much of like internet chatter just
50:06gave me
50:06>> it's wrong. That's old school
50:09nutritional advice. Okay,
50:11>> that didn't understand longevity
50:14science.
50:16>> The idea was don't stress your pancreas,
50:18have a little bit of food, snack.
50:19>> Actually, a lot of that, I hate to admit
50:21it. When you do the research, it's
50:24marketing food companies. Breakfast is
50:27not the most important meal of the day.
50:30>> That's a cereal company marketing
50:32breakfast cereal.
50:33>> No way.
50:34>> It is.
50:34>> All my life I've believed breakfast is.
50:37In fact, I've made certain changes in
50:39the last four or five years to make sure
50:40that I I eat breakfast no matter what
50:45because breakfast is going to help me do
50:47so many things.
50:48>> Well, if you love breakfast, that's
50:50fine, but you should have a almost no
50:54dinner in that case.
50:56It's what you want to do is have a
50:58period of fasting. So, no food.
51:00>> So, you can sleep. You're not eating
51:01while you're sleeping.
51:02>> Yeah. But if you're eating first thing
51:04in the morning, then you'll want to
51:05finish eating in the early afternoon so
51:08that you get that big stretch of no
51:10food. Why? Because it's going to do
51:12this. It's going to turn on our
51:14anti-aging natural
51:16>> defenses against DNA damage and this
51:18epigenetic change.
51:20>> If you're always fed, if your body
51:22always has sugar and protein,
51:24>> it's going to be in abundance mode, not
51:26adversity mode. And we know what
51:27abundance mode does. It speeds it up.
51:30>> What's the most important meal then?
51:32Well, it depends on the person. We have
51:35different chrono types. Some of us like
51:37to eat in the morning. Some like to
51:39exercise. I'm not a morning person. I
51:42don't like or need food in the morning.
51:44So, for me, I I've been skipping
51:46breakfast most of my life. And my
51:48father, who's now 87 in perfect health,
51:50same. That's the Sinclair's. But you
51:53might love breakfast. You wake up,
51:55you're hungry, you want to eat, you want
51:56to exercise, but you may not feel hungry
51:59at night. So, you can choose. But I I do
52:02want everyone to consider that this old
52:05idea of eating constantly through the
52:07day and snacking is actually a marketing
52:09ploy.
52:11>> You know, you've just you've just ruined
52:13my belief right now, which is I
52:18I eat very heavy breakfast and I eat
52:21very heavy dinner. Lunch probably I'll
52:23skip or maybe have like small thing.
52:25That's it. But
52:26>> jeez, Raj, we're going to have to
52:28measure your biological age. [laughter]
52:29Now I'm worried.
52:30>> Like the two things that you told me,
52:32these are the two things which I'm doing
52:34very
52:34>> Man, [clears throat] you might be 35 for
52:35all we know. Don't don't worry.
52:37>> Don't don't tell me.
52:38>> We We can fix you. It Here's a good
52:40point that I want to make for everybody.
52:42If you're nervous,
52:43>> and I can tell I just hit a nerve.
52:45>> Yeah.
52:46>> It's never too late. Like we have really
52:48good protocols now to slow down aging
52:51>> and soon to be reversing it, I believe.
52:53>> So, don't worry. It's It's never too
52:56late. and you're very young, so you'll
52:58be fine. I do want to stress though
53:01something that a lot of people don't
53:03think about is we mentioned that we're
53:05we're getting DNA damage all the time.
53:07>> Now, there are other things that that
53:09can accelerate aging as well besides DNA
53:11damage.
53:12>> Since we published our work in 2023, we
53:15and others have shown that any major
53:18damage to a cell can accelerate its age,
53:21not just DNA damage. For example, if you
53:24pinched the nerves like we did for the
53:26eye, those nerves got old very quickly
53:29by years, just within days, they went
53:32years old. And that's in a mouse. So
53:34that's like 20, 30 years in a human. I
53:38think that every time we go to a rock
53:40concert and we're blasting our ears, we
53:42go home with older ears than when we
53:45went to the concert.
53:47It makes sense, right? Because now when
53:50you get to 60, you're losing your
53:52hearing. Why? Because your ears have
53:53gotten older faster than someone that
53:55lives in the countryside. What I think
53:57is happening is every time we stress a
53:59cell beyond what it's capable of
54:01handling, these proteins that control
54:04the epiggenome, the the genetic readers,
54:09they move around to help repair the
54:11problem and they don't all go back to
54:13where they came from. And so if you
54:16could make sure that this structure here
54:18stays stable and not unravels any time,
54:22you could live hundreds of years in
54:24fact. And that's why whales live
54:25hundreds of years, we think, is they
54:27stabilize this structure whereas we
54:29humans, we're damaging ourselves and
54:30they fly away. Some animals only live a
54:34couple of years and some only for a few
54:35days. And uh so in a mouse, if you
54:38damage the DNA, these structures just
54:41fall apart. They're not very strong.
54:42It's easy to to actually damage a mouse
54:45cell. And if anyone has seen me at a
54:47rock concert, I've got earplugs in. If
54:49I'm walking down the street and a loud
54:51noise, I now have my fingers in my ears.
54:53I know I look stupid,
54:55>> like, why is this guy? It's just an
54:56ambulance,
54:57>> but I truly believe that these loud
54:59noises do age you, particularly your
55:02ears. And you know what you get? If you
55:04drink a lot of alcohol or or smoke, you
55:06get you get cancer and other issues.
55:09>> I don't smoke or I don't drink, so
55:10that's I'm safe there. I love that.
55:13Well, then
55:13>> I've never tried all of that.
55:14>> Then you're probably younger than than
55:18your actual chronological age, we call
55:19it. So, that's good. You're doing all
55:21those right things. Now, now we just
55:23need to reduce your number of meals down
55:26to two and you'll be good.
55:27>> Okay. Let's go back to fasting.
55:28Actually, we deviated. Yeah. You were
55:30you were telling me about fasting.
55:32>> Yeah.
55:32>> Yeah. So, what what I talk about on my
55:35podcast is how to how to practice
55:37fasting and and it not be a real
55:39problem.
55:40What most people do is they say, "I'm
55:42going to stop eating for a day and see
55:43what happens."
55:44>> Then they say, "This is too hard. I'm
55:46hungry. I can't think. I've got brain
55:48fog." That's the wrong way to do it.
55:50>> The way you would do it is,
55:52>> let's say you love uh dinner,
55:55>> but you want to stop eating dinner or
55:57just eat early.
55:59>> Don't stop eating immediately. Just have
56:01a smaller meal each day or eat something
56:03that's filling. A lot of vegetables.
56:05>> Yeah.
56:06>> And fill your stomach up with tea
56:08instead if it's at night, not
56:10caffeinated, but perhaps some hot water.
56:13Serena and I are always with water. Hot
56:16water. We just got off a plane from
56:17Tokyo. We were always saying, "We need
56:20hot water. We want hot water." Cuz we're
56:22It's not just healthy to drink and
56:24cleans out your blood, but also it fills
56:27you up. You don't feel hungry. So that's
56:28one hack for fasting is to fill yourself
56:31up with liquids. Um, another hack is uh
56:35to do it slowly. And then another hack
56:38actually is just get over it. You might
56:41feel a little bit hungry, but so what?
56:43>> It's not going to kill you. You know,
56:45I've been able to fast for I went
56:48without a meal really for 2 and 1/2
56:51weeks uh fairly recently. Last month I
56:54did that. And yeah, there were times
56:56where I thought, yeah, I should just go
56:57to the cupboard and eat all everything
56:59that's in there. I wanted to, but you
57:02your mind is very strong, right?
57:04Everybody has that power to resist going
57:06into the fridge. It's not easy. We all
57:09want to do it, but you have to think, do
57:11I really want to achieve this or am I
57:13going to give in to my animal instincts?
57:17>> That's that's one of the keys to fasting
57:19is don't give in to that quick fix. It's
57:23worth it. And if you fast actually for
57:26over 3 days, then you start to get into
57:28this new phase called chaper chaperone
57:31mediated autophagy.
57:32>> Have you ever heard of that?
57:33>> Never.
57:34>> All right. So, autophagy is autoagi,
57:38self-eing.
57:39>> And our cells are always eating
57:41themselves. When there's a damaged
57:43protein, let's say this thing unfolds um
57:45or gets gets too many of these attached
57:48in the wrong place, the cell can detect
57:50it and send it to be destroyed and
57:53recycled. Proteins will get turned into
57:55amino acids. Amino acids rebuilt into
57:57protein. That's autophagy.
58:00It happens all the time, but it happens
58:02much more when we're when we're hungry.
58:04And it happens even deeper cleansing
58:06after 3 days of not eating. And that
58:10will get rid of the really old crappy
58:12proteins. So these days I try to do a
58:16three or a 5 day fast probably once
58:18every few months partly for autophagy
58:22partly because it helps me drink water
58:24>> stay the same weight and and live life
58:26well and drink water.
58:28>> So for 3 days you drink only water and
58:31>> I'm definitely drinking all the time. Um
58:34if it's a strict fast I won't eat
58:37anything. If it I'm going for a few
58:39weeks, I will eat some vegetables, small
58:42amounts like a carrot, some celery, uh
58:45but not a lot. Not a lot. Just enough
58:48food to fill my little tummy up. But I
58:51feel great. Actually, once you get past
58:523 days, you don't feel hungry anymore.
58:55What happens is remarkable. I high have
58:57you ever fasted?
58:58>> No.
58:59>> It's really amazing. And I can tell you
59:02I'm not I'm not good at fasting. And in
59:04fact, I'm I don't have a lot of
59:05willpower. If I can do it, most people
59:07can do it.
59:09>> I decided to to try it. I was actually
59:11doing it before a podcast so I could say
59:13on the podcast. I I did it.
59:16>> After the third day, something
59:18remarkable happened. I went from feeling
59:21a little bit hungry, a little bit tired
59:23to wow, my brain turned on. My my body
59:27was making what are called ketones. And
59:29the brain loves them. They fuel the
59:32brain. So I was super awake. was like
59:35taking
59:37a few shots of caffeine. I was also more
59:40energetic. I wasn't tired at all. I woke
59:43up every morning. I was feeling great.
59:46And so I I love that feeling. So when I
59:48fast, I'm actually looking forward to
59:50getting into that state again. But most
59:52people don't get there after the second
59:54day. They're like, I can't do this
59:55anymore. Or, you know, I'm going out to
59:57dinner.
59:58>> I have to eat with my friends. That is
1:00:00that's also the hardest problem with
1:00:02fasting is we're social animals.
1:00:04>> I do find that
1:00:06>> and when I'm with Serena traveling uh
1:00:08she's a trained chef actually and so we
1:00:10we do like to eat really well. Every
1:00:12time we go to a new city we eat one of
1:00:13the top restaurants but when I come home
1:00:17that's my recovery fasting period. Um
1:00:21and and the cleanout autophagy process.
1:00:24Yeah. You know in India the in lot of in
1:00:28India lot of small communities and
1:00:30cultures they have a practice around
1:00:34fasting and it's deep rooted
1:00:36>> wisdom it's so wise they they knew it
1:00:39was healthy
1:00:41>> you know the problem that I've seen
1:00:42perhaps not in India but in the Middle
1:00:44East because there's so much food they
1:00:48eat late at night after the the daily
1:00:50fast but they eat so much they eat
1:00:52probably twice as much as normal so that
1:00:54counter acts probably any good that they
1:00:56get but if you if you if you fast and
1:00:58you don't overeat the I think the health
1:01:01benefits are really uh huge and there
1:01:04have been studies of caloric restriction
1:01:07and fasting in humans and um I think
1:01:10actually the the best way to rejuvenate
1:01:13yourself and feel better and even get
1:01:15younger
1:01:16>> it's fast
1:01:16>> is to fast yeah
1:01:18>> once a month
1:01:20>> I would say at least once a month I I
1:01:22would say every day you could skip a
1:01:25meal
1:01:25>> and fast for how how long like what
1:01:27should be the break between
1:01:29>> there's a few different versions um and
1:01:31you know again on the podcast I get into
1:01:34it there's one that that is very popular
1:01:37in Australia called the 52 which is uh
1:01:40you fast for for uh 2 days and eat five
1:01:44depends what you can do um in terms of a
1:01:47daily window you try to fast for 14 if
1:01:52you can do 16 hours, it's great. I try
1:01:55to go for 18, but it's not that hard. If
1:01:58you sleep for eight of those hours or
1:02:00seven,
1:02:00>> then it's really just skipping a meal
1:02:02and having a late lunch, skipping
1:02:04breakfast, late lunch,
1:02:05>> or having a late lunch and not eating
1:02:08till breakfast.
1:02:09>> That's that is the way that I think is
1:02:13the healthiest is to do it every day,
1:02:15not just once a month. And would you
1:02:17consider a morning smoothie or a morning
1:02:20protein or morning whatever a breakfast
1:02:22as well?
1:02:23>> Yeah,
1:02:25but I'm not as strict as most people.
1:02:27>> Well, so I I've measured myself over the
1:02:30years. This is all scientific, right? So
1:02:32I'm not just making stuff up um like
1:02:34some people do.
1:02:36>> I've found that having small amounts of
1:02:38food, particularly if it's not
1:02:40carbohydrates, it doesn't break my fast.
1:02:42M.
1:02:43>> So I've been having with res r
1:02:44resveratrol mixing it with a bit of
1:02:46yogurt, vegan yogurt. Now I used to have
1:02:48Greek yogurt that doesn't break my fast.
1:02:51If it's a little bit, it's okay. A
1:02:52little bit of olive oil, that's okay.
1:02:54But a real smoothie, that's loads of
1:02:56calories. That could be 600 calories
1:02:58right there if you put a banana in
1:02:59there. So that's a meal there.
1:03:03>> I'm vegetarian, so I think I'm I'm not
1:03:04very concerned about my meals because I
1:03:08eat vegetables all the time. That's all.
1:03:11Only once a Once in a day, I would eat
1:03:14like bread or rice and other meals, it's
1:03:18just the vegetables or proteins.
1:03:20>> Yeah. Good. Now, I'm going to get a lot
1:03:22of people hating on me because people
1:03:24love the carnivore diet. I just want to
1:03:26say carnivore diet can work great. It
1:03:28has seemingly improved health of a lot
1:03:31of people, lost weight. What I'm saying
1:03:34though is long-term by the time you're
1:03:3790, I think that it's not as beneficial
1:03:41as a vegetarian or a vegan diet. If
1:03:44you're going to do something, you don't
1:03:45need to do it every day or every hour.
1:03:48Do it for a couple of days, then have a
1:03:50rest, do it again. And that way, you can
1:03:52get the benefits of exercise and
1:03:55protein, but also this adversity,
1:03:58hunkering down, survival mode. I think
1:04:00that actually probably works the best
1:04:02because your body gets the chance not
1:04:03just to hunker down and and slow down,
1:04:06but gets some time to heal as well and
1:04:09grow fast and fix things.
1:04:11>> Got it. Have you heard about water
1:04:13fasting?
1:04:15>> Yes.
1:04:15>> Like 7-day water fasting actually
1:04:18repairs a lot of stuff. Stuff like that.
1:04:20>> Yeah. Uh there's a lot of good evidence.
1:04:22I believe in it. Yeah.
1:04:23>> What does a 7-day water fasting would
1:04:25do?
1:04:26>> What would it do?
1:04:27>> What would it do? Well, it it activates
1:04:29this chaperone mediated autophagy CME.
1:04:31It'll also activate these repair systems
1:04:35probably rebuild your epiggenome. Um, it
1:04:37also raises the level of a molecule
1:04:40called NAD which the proteins that we
1:04:44study
1:04:45>> called sertuins they need NAD. So by
1:04:47being hungry uh you raise your NAD
1:04:50levels and these now become super
1:04:53active. So, it's another hack
1:04:55>> is to to get your NAD levels higher.
1:04:58>> What is NAD?
1:04:59>> I'm glad you asked. NAD is one of the
1:05:02most important molecules for life.
1:05:05>> There are two molecules that we cannot
1:05:07survive without for 10 seconds.
1:05:10>> And we're full of these two chemicals.
1:05:12One is called ATP, which is chemical
1:05:15energy. If you take cyanide, you stop
1:05:18making ATP and you're dead, right? You
1:05:21need ATP. The other one which is more of
1:05:24a a machinery reaction chemical reaction
1:05:28um mediator is called NAD.
1:05:31NAD the full name if listeners want to
1:05:35know it nicotinomide which is vitamin B3
1:05:39fused to adinine actually part of DNA
1:05:42>> ducleotide
1:05:44anyway NAD you don't need to remember
1:05:46the full name
1:05:47>> but NAD is in our bodies and when we
1:05:51exercise or if we're fasting we do get
1:05:53more of it so for the last 10 years I've
1:05:57been working with teams to test if
1:05:59boosting NAD levels in humans gives
1:06:02health benefits
1:06:04>> as a theory would predict it should use
1:06:06these proteins to repair DNA and do
1:06:08other cool stuff
1:06:09>> and the answer is yes we've published
1:06:13well my colleagues have published and
1:06:15I've been fortunate to be part of that
1:06:17group
1:06:19number of Harvard studies people could
1:06:20check them out they're online
1:06:23raising NAD levels reduces blood
1:06:25pressure lipids cholesterol
1:06:28um and what was the latest
1:06:32um oh it's not published yet but there
1:06:34are some benefits to cognition as well
1:06:37but this molecule u NAD is being tested
1:06:39around the world in different studies
1:06:41Alzheimer's kidney disease heart failure
1:06:44and those studies are just finishing up
1:06:46this year so that's another reason why
1:06:49I'm optimistic that something big is
1:06:51going to happen this year so if what
1:06:54what I've said just to summarize is
1:06:55we've got ER100 to reverse aging but
1:06:57we've also got this other molecule
1:06:59>> which we called MIB626 which boosts NAD
1:07:03which can slow aging and slowing aging
1:07:06is important until we get the age
1:07:08reversal worked out.
1:07:10>> And this is the supplement or this is
1:07:12the thing that you were telling me that
1:07:14you take after the long flight and
1:07:16>> exactly so well we don't take NAD
1:07:18because NAD is a big molecule.
1:07:22>> You know I told you all the components
1:07:24>> if you eat it it's not going to get
1:07:26absorbed easily. Um so we take a piece
1:07:30of
1:07:32NAD called NMN.
1:07:34>> Okay.
1:07:34>> So this NN which is nicotenomide
1:07:37monucleotide not ducleotide one
1:07:39monucleotide.
1:07:42>> It can be swallowed. It's absorbed. We
1:07:44know that it raises blood levels of NAD
1:07:46by twofold in most people. Um, and that
1:07:51is what I've been doing for at least 13
1:07:54years in the hopes in the science that
1:07:58we would see uh slower aging because of
1:08:02that.
1:08:04What
1:08:05see we're talking about aging, we're
1:08:07talking about damage,
1:08:09but I was reading that a child's repair
1:08:13system is much better than an adults.
1:08:15Right.
1:08:15>> Sure.
1:08:16>> So, what's
1:08:17>> what happens? Why a kid is able to
1:08:21actually repair themselves with all
1:08:23these damages, all the things. Let's say
1:08:25if a kid doesn't fast or the kid doesn't
1:08:27run or kid doesn't do anything, still
1:08:29he's been or she's been able to actually
1:08:30repair uh all these damages. But I'm not
1:08:34>> or like as we age, we are not.
1:08:35>> That's such a good question and it the
1:08:38best questions are the obvious ones,
1:08:41>> you know, but we don't talk about them.
1:08:43Why is a child so good at repairing?
1:08:46>> Yeah. Why doesn't a child get
1:08:47Alzheimer's disease? Why don't they get
1:08:50heart disease?
1:08:51>> Yeah.
1:08:51>> You know why?
1:08:52>> Yeah. Even ch like kids have lower rates
1:08:55of cancer as well. Like
1:08:56>> Yeah.
1:08:57>> Why? Like these are same things which
1:08:58happens to all of us.
1:08:59>> Okay. Here here's what I believe to be
1:09:02the truth.
1:09:05Their epigenome
1:09:07which controls the genes.
1:09:11>> Is optimal. M
1:09:13>> every cell knows what it is, what it
1:09:16should do and can do it. But starting
1:09:20even before birth, this process of aging
1:09:23starts to happen and cells eventually
1:09:26forget how to be optimal. And that's
1:09:28what we see as aging. It's what we see
1:09:30as diseases of aging,
1:09:32but we start out optimal. And ER100, the
1:09:35drug that we're testing, is designed to
1:09:37get us to go back to that optimal point
1:09:40where we can heal pretty much anything.
1:09:45>> So, as I'm getting older, these things
1:09:48in my body are forgetting and they
1:09:51because they're too many.
1:09:52>> So, they don't know where to go. What
1:09:54was the original place to go? Is that
1:09:57>> Yes. They your cells are forgetting
1:10:00which which piano keys to play or which
1:10:03genes to turn on because these these are
1:10:06the these are the piano players.
1:10:08>> Yeah.
1:10:08>> They're getting lost and they're not
1:10:10hitting the right keys anymore. And the
1:10:12the beautiful music of our youth
1:10:15>> becomes a terrible noise, a cacophony of
1:10:18terrible music.
1:10:19>> But then the question is, can you play
1:10:22it again beautifully and heal like a
1:10:25baby again? See and this is there in
1:10:28every organ right? So every organ is
1:10:29like now operating in a different
1:10:31system. Can I find out which organ or
1:10:34which specific place where they are
1:10:36damaging more
1:10:39>> in your body?
1:10:40>> Yeah.
1:10:40>> Yeah. We can read it. We can see
1:10:42>> like specifically you can find out
1:10:44whether my heart is older or my brain is
1:10:46older or my immune system. I don't know.
1:10:48>> Yeah.
1:10:49>> What all is possible and what all is not
1:10:51possible. For sure, we could do what we
1:10:53do to the mice, to you, but it would
1:10:56just require a sample. If you give me a
1:10:58tissue sample, I can tell you how old
1:11:00your tissue is. Now, that's easy. I can
1:11:02take your skin from your mouth, I can
1:11:04take your blood. Taking your heart
1:11:06tissue is a little harder. But you from
1:11:09a cheek swab, we've actually found and
1:11:11it's been published that using a test
1:11:14that we developed partially in my lab,
1:11:17the signature of the cells in your cheek
1:11:20also have a signature of how well your
1:11:22heart is aging or not. It's crazy,
1:11:24right?
1:11:25>> Yeah.
1:11:25>> I don't
1:11:26>> why
1:11:26>> we don't we don't know. But there is
1:11:29that signature of different organs
1:11:32in the mouth. And it might be because
1:11:35there's a memory of how you've been
1:11:37living. Right? If you've been fasting
1:11:40your whole life, which you haven't.
1:11:42>> Mhm.
1:11:42>> Your cheek cells would tell you. We have
1:11:45a memory of that. If you've been
1:11:47smoking, you haven't. Thank God. There
1:11:49is a memory of smoking in every one of
1:11:51these cells that we measure. And
1:11:53actually, my friend Steve Horvath, who
1:11:55invented this clock, uh he said that the
1:11:59clock is much more accurate than
1:12:00people's memory of smoking.
1:12:03Uh I think most people are in denial but
1:12:07anyway that's a that's that's an aside.
1:12:10We can there are surrogates for
1:12:12different tissues in the mouth. So I
1:12:14what I think will happen in the future
1:12:16is you'll give a sample of your cheek or
1:12:18your blood to your doctor and you get
1:12:21back a a picture of yourself saying this
1:12:24part of your body is old, this part is
1:12:26young. We need to target this part.
1:12:28>> Interesting. Wow. Pretty fascinating.
1:12:32And if I get to know let's my heart is
1:12:35old. Okay. And it's it it has aged.
1:12:37>> Yeah.
1:12:38>> Is it because of some disease which is
1:12:41why it's aging or is it because it's
1:12:44aging that's why I'm getting a lot of
1:12:45diseases.
1:12:46>> It's mostly the second one that because
1:12:49you're aging you get diseases. And if we
1:12:51can reverse the age of that diseased
1:12:53tissue the disease goes away. We know
1:12:56this from studies in my lab and others.
1:12:58If you give a mouse Alzheimer's disease,
1:13:00dementia, and you make the brain young,
1:13:03the disease goes away. The body can cure
1:13:05Alzheimer's
1:13:07if it's young. That's why young people
1:13:09don't get Alzheimer's. We have to think
1:13:11about that, right?
1:13:12>> But yes, the the answer would be we
1:13:16think that the reason that organs get
1:13:18diseases
1:13:19is because they get old. But you are
1:13:23right also that diseases can accelerate
1:13:25aging. If you genetically have a problem
1:13:27with your heart, it can age faster. And
1:13:30some people have diseases that
1:13:32accelerate aging in all tissues. Have
1:13:34you heard of progeria?
1:13:35>> No.
1:13:36>> There are progeria diseases which
1:13:39accelerate aging in essentially the
1:13:41whole body of the of the child. And a
1:13:44teenage kid can look 80 years old. And
1:13:48we actually we made we made the same
1:13:50mice in the lab. We have mice that look
1:13:53old rapidly like the ones that we cut
1:13:55the DNA,
1:13:56>> but they they're there are the same
1:13:58mutation in the mouse as in the human
1:14:00patient.
1:14:02>> And now what we're testing is can we
1:14:04reverse the age of those mice to make
1:14:07them young again? And if that works,
1:14:09then there's hope for these children.
1:14:12>> Can one
1:14:14one organ which is getting older in my
1:14:16body can make my entire body older? or
1:14:21can make all the other organs in the
1:14:22body old.
1:14:23>> That's so fascinating. All well I
1:14:26wouldn't say all but most of the tissues
1:14:28and organs are talking to each other and
1:14:30one old tissue can accelerate aging in
1:14:34other tissues. I'll give you a couple of
1:14:36examples. One is if you implant old fat
1:14:40into a a mouse
1:14:42>> or maybe a rat, a rodent,
1:14:44>> okay,
1:14:45>> it will make the rest of the body old.
1:14:49The age spreads from this one old part
1:14:52of the body in fat. And I all of us my
1:14:56age in 50s, we have old fat. We can
1:14:58actually stain it. There's a a color. We
1:15:01can stain it. Your fat is probably light
1:15:04blue.
1:15:05Uh I don't know. Let's imagine a light
1:15:08blue. No, that that's that's more like
1:15:10that's that's like my fat. A 90-year-old
1:15:12would be super dark blue like this
1:15:14velcro. Okay.
1:15:15>> Almost black.
1:15:16>> So we can measure that. Anyway, that
1:15:18those cells are secretreting
1:15:20inflammation molecules called
1:15:23inflammatory cytoines and they age the
1:15:26rest of the body.
1:15:28Another the second example I want to
1:15:30give you is if you accelerate aging of
1:15:33part of the brain called the
1:15:34hypothalamus which is at the base here.
1:15:37That's a part of the brain that
1:15:38communicates to the body with lots of
1:15:39different molecules, hormones.
1:15:42If you accelerate the aging of that
1:15:44tissue, the body gets older. But here's
1:15:46the cool thing. If you keep it young,
1:15:49it makes the whole mouse young and the
1:15:51mouse lives longer.
1:15:52>> And how do I keep them? Yeah. Adversity.
1:15:55>> Well, yeah. Like I said,
1:15:58don't eat as much, exercise, all that. I
1:16:00think that polyphenols are a very good
1:16:03way to keep your brain young. The other
1:16:06thing that I do, which I don't talk
1:16:08about a lot, so let let's talk about it
1:16:10now.
1:16:11>> Okay.
1:16:11>> Between friends, no one's no one else is
1:16:13listening, right?
1:16:14um the blood flow by the time you get to
1:16:17my age, there's always a loss of blood
1:16:20vessels.
1:16:21>> Of course, you know, I've got an aorta
1:16:23that's still flowing well or I'd be
1:16:25dead. And I measure it all the time
1:16:27here. I get it. Not all the time, but
1:16:28every few years I measure this with an
1:16:29ultrasound. My corroted.
1:16:32>> But what we forget is that all the
1:16:34tissues are filled with microscopic
1:16:36capillaries
1:16:37>> or capillaries as we say in Australia.
1:16:39>> Yeah.
1:16:40those become less numerous as we get
1:16:44older. So, you can think when we're
1:16:46young, blood's flowing easily, but when
1:16:47we're older, it's pushing it hard
1:16:50through. There's not a lot of gaps. It's
1:16:52one of the reasons we're not fit when
1:16:54we're older, the blood just can't get
1:16:55through. And if you are obese, one of
1:16:58the things that I do besides try to
1:17:00exercise aerobically, which I should do
1:17:02a lot more of, but I'm on plane a lot of
1:17:05the time. The other thing that I do is I
1:17:07take a small dose of uh a erectile
1:17:12dysfunction drug.
1:17:14I won't say the name, but you know what
1:17:17I'm talking about, right?
1:17:19>> ED. I'm not taking it because I have
1:17:21problems with erectile
1:17:23>> dysfunction
1:17:23>> with erections. I don't have any
1:17:25dysfunction,
1:17:26>> but it does open up blood vessels.
1:17:29Certainly, it makes them more flexible
1:17:31and you get better blood flow. It's the
1:17:33reason that it works down there, but it
1:17:35doesn't just work the blood vessels.
1:17:37>> Yeah. And allowing my tissues to be
1:17:39filled with more oxygen. And the reason
1:17:42I mention that is that a lot of the
1:17:45problems in the brain especially are
1:17:47caused by a lack of blood flow.
1:17:49>> Do you think tracking blood flow can
1:17:52actually be helpful for anybody?
1:17:54>> Yes.
1:17:55>> The brain blood flow. Well, if you can
1:17:57track it, it's not easy,
1:17:59>> but yes, I think uh I I've had it done
1:18:01with an MRI. You can measure that. Um I
1:18:05think if it was available, it would be
1:18:07worth doing.
1:18:08It's very important to maintain healthy
1:18:10blood flow. And one of the things that I
1:18:13attribute my father's health, mental
1:18:15health, is that he's done everything he
1:18:17can to maintain healthy cardiovascular
1:18:20system.
1:18:21>> Yeah.
1:18:22>> Interesting. So the the friend I was
1:18:24talking you talking about the
1:18:26entrepreneur friend in India who's
1:18:27trying to solve this.
1:18:28>> Yeah.
1:18:29>> Right. I ended up meeting him and he's
1:18:31he's he's built this device called
1:18:32Temple
1:18:34which is now they're trying to actually
1:18:37measure the brain blood flow.
1:18:39>> That would be very useful. I would love
1:18:42to try that. And we could even see if
1:18:44fasting helps and polyphenols help.
1:18:47>> ED drugs should help. Yes. But all of
1:18:50that's that's great. And uh we could see
1:18:54if using this Temple device. Yeah.
1:18:56>> Temple. Yeah.
1:18:56>> If if we're brain aging faster or not
1:19:00because it's it's a good indicator.
1:19:01>> That's the whole bet, right? You know,
1:19:03and you know, it's fascinating like
1:19:04every time I do these exercises which
1:19:06you were telling me right now on the
1:19:08device on the app, I can see my brain
1:19:10blood flow going up. So every time I'm
1:19:12in sauna or every time I'm doing the I'm
1:19:15I'm running like like crazily that it
1:19:18just grows. It just goes up. And then
1:19:20when I'm laying down, I'm doing my
1:19:22breath work, I'm lying, I'm doing
1:19:23nothing. And it just
1:19:25>> like it's
1:19:26>> you can see all the things that you were
1:19:28talking about, you can see your brain
1:19:30blood flow actually increasing.
1:19:31>> Amazing. No, that that'd be very helpful
1:19:33cuz like I said, right now it's
1:19:34expensive. MRI, not
1:19:36>> most people can't do that or afford it,
1:19:38>> but if there was a cheap way to measure
1:19:40it, I I'd walk around with it all the
1:19:42time.
1:19:43>> We were when we were talking about this,
1:19:44you were also telling me about entropy.
1:19:46>> Yes.
1:19:47>> And why what is entropy? like tell me
1:19:50and why is it becoming such an important
1:19:52conversation all around the world?
1:19:56>> Well, the there's different types of
1:19:57entropy. Um
1:19:59>> what is entropy?
1:20:00>> Well, people even disagree on what
1:20:02entropy is. Um
1:20:04>> at its fundamental level, it it's
1:20:05information.
1:20:07>> Um but what most people teach it in
1:20:09college is that it is disorder and order
1:20:13and and the more entropy, the more
1:20:14disorder. though the if real
1:20:17professionals disagree with that
1:20:19description. Okay, it's the fun fun
1:20:20fundamental it's information and
1:20:23informationational noise. But the the
1:20:25reason that's important in my field u in
1:20:28many fields including AI but in my field
1:20:33this is ordered a young cell is ordered
1:20:36and has pristine information right all
1:20:38the information is there
1:20:42now we're doing some aging right now
1:20:43we're now we're 57 years old
1:20:46unfortunately
1:20:48this is loss of information it doesn't
1:20:50remember how to be like it was when it
1:20:52was
1:20:54This is increased entropy is disorder.
1:20:57Okay. A loss of information.
1:21:00But the question that I had in 2014
1:21:04was, is there a backup copy of this
1:21:08information? Is it possible to reverse
1:21:12entropy?
1:21:14Of course, it requires energy. You don't
1:21:16just [clears throat]
1:21:17>> circumvent the second law of
1:21:19thermodynamics for free, but we can eat.
1:21:22we can get energy and maybe there's a
1:21:23system a memory of how the cell was put
1:21:26together the DNA wrapped up from 30 40
1:21:30or in my case 50 years ago and that was
1:21:33one Cheng's PhD thesis can he find a way
1:21:37to get this to go back is there a memory
1:21:39of that
1:21:40>> and I think we found it that it exists
1:21:42there's a backup copy of the original
1:21:45state of the cell
1:21:46>> where now that's that's the question
1:21:50that we're trying to answer in my lab
1:21:51right Now, where is that information
1:21:53stored?
1:21:54>> But every piece of information from 30,
1:21:5640, 50 years is stored. It's somewhere
1:21:58there,
1:21:59>> we believe. So, it's new biology. We're
1:22:02looking at it. We think we've found
1:22:04evidence that there's new structures on
1:22:08this original molecule that tells the
1:22:12cell,
1:22:13this gene should be wrapped up tightly,
1:22:16and this other one should be opened up
1:22:18like when we were young. And that's
1:22:20sitting in every old person. So now when
1:22:23I see an old person who's frail, can't
1:22:25cross the street, well, I don't see an
1:22:27old person. I just see someone that
1:22:28needs to be reset.
1:22:30>> Someone just who's who's forgotten how
1:22:32to be young again?
1:22:33>> Yes. But inside is a young person just
1:22:36needs to be switched on again.
1:22:38>> Can you do that? Can you switch it on?
1:22:40>> We do it in my lab every day.
1:22:43>> And if someone's been switched on for a
1:22:45long time, is it bad for them then?
1:22:47>> We don't think so. That's why the FDA uh
1:22:49gave us permission. We did a lot of
1:22:51safety studies in the monkeys and in the
1:22:53mice for years. We looked at this. We
1:22:55haven't seen any negative issues so far.
1:22:59Cross your fingers. We we have to be
1:23:01very careful because we are playing with
1:23:03very strong technology, powerful
1:23:05technology.
1:23:06>> But we wouldn't have started the
1:23:08clinical trial if we thought there was
1:23:10any risk to the patient.
1:23:12>> Um I'll give you an example. We've
1:23:14published that if you turn on those
1:23:16three genes in the eye at high levels,
1:23:20not just for 2 weeks, 3 weeks, um we did
1:23:23it for 6 weeks. If you if you leave it
1:23:25on for a year,
1:23:28>> even up to 21 months,
1:23:31there's no negative effects. In fact,
1:23:33the longer you leave it on in the eye,
1:23:36the better the effect. The vision gets
1:23:39better and better and better. And here's
1:23:41here's the thing that I love in that
1:23:43paper that we published on glaucoma.
1:23:46If you turn it off, and we have ability
1:23:48to turn it on and off, right? We
1:23:49actually just give the patient a pill,
1:23:51it turns it on, they stop taking the
1:23:53pill, turns it off. It's the world's
1:23:54first regulatable gene therapy, by the
1:23:57way. But we did this in mice. We we turn
1:23:59it on, cured or at least improved
1:24:02vision, turn it off. Okay? What happens?
1:24:05The disease comes back or aging happens.
1:24:09They lose their vision. Now for the
1:24:11second time, now we do a cool
1:24:13experiment. We turn on the genes again.
1:24:16What do you think happened?
1:24:19You show posit. You You saw positive
1:24:21results.
1:24:22>> We can do it multiple times. Now I would
1:24:26have wanted to turn it on three, four,
1:24:28five times, but the mice got old and
1:24:30they died. But they died with very good
1:24:32eyesight. So what this tells me is that
1:24:35this can be turned on many times. So
1:24:38imagine a future where we have these
1:24:40genes in our body that we can turn on
1:24:42with a pill. We just take a pill for a
1:24:45few weeks every few years and we just go
1:24:48back in time.
1:24:50That would be so cool. [laughter] That
1:24:52would be so amazing. But essentially
1:24:55you're telling me that
1:24:57most of the old people are not old.
1:25:00They've just forgotten that they are
1:25:02young person inside and you just need to
1:25:04switch on that thing. Does that mean for
1:25:06every part like even for let's say you
1:25:07said spine
1:25:09>> right spine is very difficult to do that
1:25:10do you do you
1:25:11>> because spine degeneration
1:25:13>> is one of the biggest problems in the
1:25:15world right now because we all are
1:25:16sitting like I have it
1:25:18>> oh you do oh no
1:25:19>> it's like my my L4 L5 S1 is just
1:25:23>> it's gone
1:25:25>> there was a recent study that came um
1:25:28out of China actually but and it was
1:25:30done very well they
1:25:33injected these three Yamanaka
1:25:37age restoration genes into a joint
1:25:40>> of an animal. Um, it was a mouse that
1:25:45had osteoarthritis.
1:25:47>> Okay.
1:25:47>> Right. I think it was the leg. It wasn't
1:25:50the spine, but still.
1:25:52>> Yeah,
1:25:52>> it's a good model. The uh cartilage
1:25:55regrrew. So, I'm excited about testing
1:25:58this in human patients, back injury,
1:26:02sports injury, or just old age wearing
1:26:05out.
1:26:06>> Wouldn't that be good? Instead of
1:26:07putting stem cells in there to try and
1:26:09fix a little bit,
1:26:10>> we just give you a young new joint, it
1:26:12grows again.
1:26:14>> True. But with with your thing,
1:26:16>> Yeah.
1:26:16>> can those pills can that switch it on my
1:26:19degeneration and stop that as well?
1:26:22Well, I I would be optimistic given this
1:26:24study that we've just talked about, we'd
1:26:27have to test it. So, the way we would do
1:26:29it
1:26:31theoretically,
1:26:32>> um, we'd need FDA approval,
1:26:35but we could take ER 100 and put it into
1:26:40your spine.
1:26:42Um, and then we would give you the the
1:26:45pill and we would do an MRI and see if
1:26:48your spine regrow.
1:26:51I mean that's what we're doing with the
1:26:53eye right now.
1:26:54>> If it works in the eye,
1:26:55>> it's going to start.
1:26:55>> We should talk. [laughter]
1:26:58>> Absolutely. You tell me when the eye
1:27:00thing starts.
1:27:02>> Okay. Another thing is
1:27:05about immune system. Yeah. People who
1:27:08have weak immune system, they age
1:27:10faster.
1:27:12And what's there?
1:27:14Is it because I'm doing all the bad
1:27:17things that's why my immunity is weak or
1:27:19my immunity is weak and that's why I'm
1:27:21like what's the correlation?
1:27:24>> There are a few possibilities. is it's
1:27:26not fully agreed upon by scientists but
1:27:28one is the immune system can be
1:27:30overactive and secrete inflammation
1:27:33factors and having a lot of inflammation
1:27:36uh like kil 61 beta
1:27:39>> these can accelerate aging because
1:27:41inflammation is just bad overall
1:27:44>> we know that
1:27:45>> the other thing that can happen is if
1:27:48your immune system is not very active
1:27:51um it's the opposite can actually not
1:27:54destroy old cells
1:27:56So the old some old cells like the blue
1:27:58ones in my fat, they're called
1:28:00scinsesscent cells.
1:28:01>> Okay?
1:28:02>> Have you heard of scinesscent cells?
1:28:04>> These are some people call them zombie
1:28:06cells.
1:28:06>> Okay?
1:28:07>> The reason they're called zombie cells
1:28:08is when cells divide, they're young,
1:28:12they're healthy, but when they get
1:28:13really old, either because their
1:28:16epigenome is unraveled and they're
1:28:18they're confused or the ends of their
1:28:20DNA gets short too short, they run out.
1:28:24Then the cell has a signal stop
1:28:25dividing. Then they just become a
1:28:28useless zombie cell. Actually, they're
1:28:31worse than useless. They start putting
1:28:33out inflammation factors. It's called
1:28:36SASP. Anyway, it's it's well known.
1:28:39>> Um, and we know that if you put
1:28:41scinsesscent cells into the fat, like I
1:28:44was saying before, it makes you age
1:28:45faster and your immune system is
1:28:48clearing out these scinesscent cells. Um
1:28:51and in fact there are companies now
1:28:53working to give vaccines that will help
1:28:55the body kill them. U but that might be
1:28:58another reason why if your body's not
1:29:00good at killing these scessent cells
1:29:02then you would age faster.
1:29:04>> Coming back to the aging part right do
1:29:06you when you were explaining me about
1:29:08immune system and going these things.
1:29:10>> Yeah. Right. I had this very basic
1:29:13question [laughter]
1:29:15which is what's what determines whether
1:29:20in my future I'm going to age faster or
1:29:23slower. Is it the pace of my aging? Is
1:29:28it my current scenario? What is there in
1:29:32my body right now already? Or is it my
1:29:35psychological or physiological
1:29:36resistance
1:29:37>> that I'm fighting? My whole body is
1:29:40fighting towards that aging and all
1:29:42these things. What is the biggest
1:29:44determin like determiner or what is the
1:29:46biggest contributor?
1:29:48The biggest contributor to your rate of
1:29:49aging is
1:29:52your environment and how you live your
1:29:54life. Um it's it's debated somewhere
1:29:58between 80 80 to 50% of your future
1:30:02health and your rate of aging is
1:30:05how you live. how you live and and how
1:30:09your body composition, right? If you're
1:30:11lean in good shape with lots of
1:30:14strength, you're going to age probably
1:30:16age slower than someone who has let
1:30:18themselves gain weight and sit around.
1:30:21But some of it between 20 and 50% is
1:30:25you're just born with that. There's not
1:30:27much you can do about that part. That's
1:30:28what you get from your parents. But the
1:30:31good news is at least half maybe more we
1:30:33can change that and we can slow it down
1:30:35by living the right life. Now some
1:30:38changes take decades right taking
1:30:40resveratrol you're not going to suddenly
1:30:42get younger tomorrow.
1:30:43>> Yeah.
1:30:43>> Despite what some cosmetic companies say
1:30:47so there's long-term things and uh you
1:30:50have to have some faith.
1:30:51>> Mhm.
1:30:52>> Uh but some things are are quite u
1:30:54quick. You see them quickly. So I
1:30:56switched to a vegan diet when I met
1:30:58Serena. Um, it's about 5 years ago. I
1:31:01started g I gave up I gave up wine. I
1:31:04gave up most meat and uh and didn't eat
1:31:09as much calories and I noticed within
1:31:12really within days I felt better and
1:31:14then I did my blood work again and after
1:31:16a month my inflammation levels went way
1:31:19down and I was healthy already. Um,
1:31:22there's an inflammation marker that
1:31:23everybody should get measured called
1:31:25CRP.
1:31:26>> Okay. what a C reactive protein. Doctors
1:31:29usually measure it as a as a predictor
1:31:31of heart disease, but it's a good
1:31:32measure of overall inflammation. And my
1:31:35CRP levels went way down. The lower the
1:31:37better actually with this molecule. And
1:31:39that was quite a
1:31:42a a quick effect. Um it didn't take
1:31:44decades to see the benefits.
1:31:46>> So we we spoke about in terms of
1:31:49benefits and changing your lifestyle. We
1:31:51spoke about fasting.
1:31:52>> Yeah. And we were speaking about
1:31:54exercise but then we dwelt into other
1:31:56things. So in exercise the running part
1:32:00is better or the strength training is
1:32:01better.
1:32:02>> Oh gee. Well I would say both.
1:32:05Unfortunately
1:32:07there isn't one that's better. They do
1:32:09different things. But I would say if I
1:32:11could only do one thing for health it
1:32:14would be aerobic exercise. It would be
1:32:15losing my breath for 10 minutes three
1:32:17times a week minimum.
1:32:20>> How much do you do?
1:32:24very little. Let's just not go there.
1:32:26>> Yeah. [laughter]
1:32:27>> Well, I I I can sympathize because um it
1:32:32it is tough when you're as busy as you
1:32:34are. It's hard to fit it in.
1:32:36>> I do once a week for sure.
1:32:37>> Oh, good. You do lose your breath.
1:32:39You're
1:32:39>> I lose my breath at least once a week,
1:32:41but I lift weights or at least do some
1:32:43of that for like
1:32:45>> two to three times in a week.
1:32:46>> Good. Well,
1:32:48lifting weights is important for other
1:32:50reasons. It's not going to massively
1:32:52change your blood flow,
1:32:54>> but it is going to help you with a few
1:32:57things. Strength, which is super
1:32:59important even at your age for your
1:33:00back, right? And limbs. Most people my
1:33:03age have a shoulder issue.
1:33:06>> Yeah.
1:33:06>> Right. Um, and if you're older than me,
1:33:08let's say you're in your 70s or 80s,
1:33:10>> if you don't have muscle strength, you
1:33:13can fall. You can break bones. You can
1:33:15even die from falling. So, you do want
1:33:18muscles. But the at your age, if you're
1:33:20in your 20s and 30s, the biggest effect
1:33:22besides looking better is that you'll
1:33:25have um better metabolism. You'll be
1:33:28burning more energy so you can eat a
1:33:31little bit more, enjoy life a little bit
1:33:32more. Um but also it's was very good for
1:33:35maintaining hormone levels.
1:33:36>> You were when you were talking about
1:33:39improving brain blood flow and you were
1:33:41talking about the supplement.
1:33:43>> Yeah.
1:33:43>> Right. Which you would take which will
1:33:46expand your vessels, right? Do you think
1:33:48L arginine helps in that?
1:33:49>> I I don't know. People take L arginine
1:33:52for making their for for improving the
1:33:55vascularity in the blood.
1:33:57>> Yeah, I I don't off the top of my head
1:34:00know how that works. It's it's an amino
1:34:03acid. It may be involved in uh the
1:34:06production of nitric oxide which is how
1:34:08the dysfun erectile dysfunction drugs
1:34:11work. Uh without this gas, it's actually
1:34:14it's interesting. It's a gas that's
1:34:15produced by the what are called the
1:34:17endothelial cells that line the blood
1:34:19vessels. As you get older, you don't
1:34:20make as much nitric oxide gas and you
1:34:24know parts of your body fail because of
1:34:26that. Um it may be that L arginine as I
1:34:30would call it um the amino acid is
1:34:33helpful for the production of that gas
1:34:37though you know I'm not an expert so I
1:34:39have to speculate. Um
1:34:42but there are other things you can do.
1:34:44You can take nitric oxide boosters. For
1:34:47instance, beets have nitric nitric
1:34:49oxide. You've heard about beets.
1:34:50>> Now, the I don't take that because
1:34:53typically it comes with a lot of sugar.
1:34:54I regard sugar as like a poison. Um,
1:34:58occasionally I I'll eat some candy, but
1:35:01I don't eat a lot of carbs and sugar. I
1:35:02try to avoid it as much as possible.
1:35:04>> Why everybody's just like so anti-
1:35:07sugar? I understand. I understand what's
1:35:09going on and I understand it's a poison.
1:35:11Yeah,
1:35:12>> absolutely. The days when I'm not taking
1:35:15sugar, those days are like tremendously
1:35:19better. But just like demonizing
1:35:21everything around it, I feel it's like
1:35:23we're doing so much unjustice. At least
1:35:25once a month is fine or like once in 15
1:35:27days is okay.
1:35:28>> Yeah. Everything in moderation. It's
1:35:30just that the world, especially the
1:35:31United States food.
1:35:33>> I don't know, India is probably the
1:35:34same.
1:35:35>> Everything has sugar in it. Even hidden
1:35:37sugar. Even the Chinese soups that I
1:35:40order, uh, I realized I thought, "Oh,
1:35:43healthy Chinese soups with vegetables,
1:35:46grams of sugar in there, the sauces."
1:35:49You have to be just really careful. It's
1:35:50the hidden sugars. You eating a candy
1:35:52once in a while is not going to hurt.
1:35:53It's every day taking in all this sugar.
1:35:56So, why is sugar bad? There's a couple
1:35:58of main reasons. One is sugar attaches
1:36:00to proteins, right? We talked about this
1:36:02this protein here. This this protein and
1:36:06every protein in the body can have sugar
1:36:08stuck to it and that makes it old
1:36:10protein. Actually just recently a few
1:36:13days ago a company announced that they
1:36:15found a way to remove the sugar off
1:36:17proteins which is great.
1:36:18>> Yeah.
1:36:19>> One day we can get rid of it. So glucose
1:36:21on the proteins called glycation.
1:36:23>> The problem is that a lot of proteins in
1:36:25the body cannot be easily recycled. The
1:36:27ones [snorts] that make up part of the
1:36:28skin, right? The the collagen that's in
1:36:31the skin, you don't recycle that easily.
1:36:33So that when it gets sugar attached
1:36:36>> is almost permanently damaged.
1:36:39>> So you don't want high levels of sugar.
1:36:40So I try to keep and you should try to
1:36:42keep your sugar levels at a low level.
1:36:45Um because it's the high concentrations
1:36:48that are bad. That's one thing. The
1:36:50second is that you're you don't want to
1:36:52be susceptible to diabetes and diabetes
1:36:55is pretty prevalent in India and
1:36:57globally. So that's why but it you're
1:36:59right it is demonized. But I sometimes I
1:37:03say that it's a poison to make the point
1:37:05because I'm trying to counteract the
1:37:07other group of people that are making
1:37:09billions of dollars off sugar.
1:37:12>> Yeah.
1:37:13>> And fructose corn syrup is up there. Uh
1:37:15in America they use it in most foods
1:37:18actually. Um especially the sauces.
1:37:21>> True. It's you know diabetes is one of
1:37:24the biggest reasons why I started
1:37:26getting healthier in my life because my
1:37:28parents have my dad has diabetes. my
1:37:31grandmother had diabetes. It's like it
1:37:32runs in my family. And I remember when I
1:37:35was I think 16 or 15 probably, I went to
1:37:40a clinic with my dad and I was eating a
1:37:43sandwich. It's the doctor who was there
1:37:46who just looked at me and he's like,
1:37:48"You know what? You should stop that or
1:37:50else you're going to be diabetic in like
1:37:52before even you turn 25 because everyone
1:37:54in your family has it."
1:37:55>> Oh yeah.
1:37:56>> And that just stuck with me. So either
1:38:00you can call that doctor a devil or or a
1:38:02blessing [laughter] because
1:38:04>> since that day I was like okay my only
1:38:07challenge in life became that I want to
1:38:10beat diabetes by 25 like I don't want to
1:38:12have diabetes
1:38:13>> at the age of 25 and I just kept beating
1:38:16and then that's
1:38:17>> I measure my sugar levels to the tea
1:38:20like everything I do is just to defeat
1:38:22diabetes in my life.
1:38:23>> What is your fasting blood sugar level
1:38:26>> right now? Yeah,
1:38:27>> I don't remember, but it's it's way
1:38:28below.
1:38:29>> It's okay.
1:38:29>> Yeah, it's it's much HB1C is also good.
1:38:32>> I was going to mention that. Yeah, HBA1C
1:38:34is good.
1:38:34>> Yeah.
1:38:35>> All right.
1:38:35>> Everything is great. Like it's it's it's
1:38:37better than
1:38:39>> Yeah.
1:38:39>> like most of the people in the world.
1:38:40>> I'm I'm pleased. Obviously, if you're
1:38:43eating a a vegetarian diet, that's going
1:38:45to help. Um, for those of listeners and
1:38:48viewers who don't know what HBA1C is,
1:38:51>> it's worth speaking about it. HBA1C is
1:38:55um when sugar gets attached to your
1:38:58hemoglobin in your blood. The red in
1:39:00your blood gets sugar attached and
1:39:02doctors can measure the percentage of
1:39:04your hemoglobin that has sugar on it.
1:39:07That's your HB A1C. And the more percent
1:39:12is covered in sugar means you've got
1:39:14more sugar over the a period of a month
1:39:16in your blood. And if you're above
1:39:20seven, it's it's bad.
1:39:22>> Bad. Yeah. It's diabetic already.
1:39:23>> Diabetic. Yeah. I like mine to be around
1:39:26five, 5.2. That's a healthy level for
1:39:30someone my age. I have the same problem.
1:39:32My family is diabetic if they don't
1:39:35watch out. Um my father, my grandmother
1:39:38had a stroke in her 30s. It's that bad.
1:39:41Uh so I have terrible genetics. So I've
1:39:43had to also be very careful.
1:39:45>> Same. That that makes two of us. So
1:39:48that's what that's so that's why I keep
1:39:49my blood markers like every 3 months I'm
1:39:52trying to test doing a lot of things
1:39:54>> and just keeping everything in check and
1:39:57that's good news you have to stay alive
1:40:00for or healthy for as long as possible
1:40:02because the breakthroughs are coming
1:40:04there are companies now that have
1:40:05figured out how to replace a pancreas to
1:40:07make insulin
1:40:09>> really
1:40:10>> is it there already out there
1:40:12>> it's not on the market yet but they're
1:40:13able to do it and I I think they had
1:40:15success
1:40:16>> in the clinic now.
1:40:18>> But my my intention and my goal is to
1:40:22not have it at first place
1:40:23>> ever. Yeah.
1:40:24>> I just live such a healthy life that at
1:40:27least I can just uh you know just delay
1:40:31it for as long as I can.
1:40:33>> Yeah. And there will be a time in in
1:40:34your lifespan where you don't ever have
1:40:37to worry about getting cancer, diabetes,
1:40:39heart disease. We're already almost
1:40:42there. You can detect cancer very early.
1:40:45you can prevent diabetes pretty easily.
1:40:47I mean just looking at the GLP-1
1:40:49receptor drugs
1:40:51>> and dementia is coming down rapidly.
1:40:54>> We are at a world especially those who
1:40:56have the financial resources to spend on
1:40:59all of these tests where you don't have
1:41:01to die from these diseases anymore.
1:41:04>> True. True.
1:41:07Now it's getting better and it it will
1:41:09keep getting better thanks to people
1:41:10like you. It will one day there'll
1:41:14there'll be a time in probably next
1:41:16decade where we won't worry about half
1:41:18of the diseases that we talk about
1:41:20today.
1:41:20>> Right. Right. And even in the past 12
1:41:22months there have been huge
1:41:23breakthroughs and about 15 new drugs on
1:41:25the US market and some breakthroughs in
1:41:28cancer. Pancreatic cancer is now
1:41:31treatable. It's incredible the progress
1:41:33just happening now and AI is going to
1:41:35speed that up.
1:41:37>> It's also really exciting to think about
1:41:39what's happening in my lab. Remember, we
1:41:41discovered this eye eye reversal about 9
1:41:4610 years ago. Since then, we've
1:41:48continued to innovate.
1:41:50>> So, we now have the ability to swallow a
1:41:53pill, give a mouse a pill, and reverse
1:41:56its age and and rejuvenate it. And we're
1:41:59working on getting it into humans to see
1:42:03if we can do this without an injection,
1:42:05just by swallowing something.
1:42:07>> How much of AI is going to help you?
1:42:09>> A lot. We've been using AI for a few
1:42:12years now. One way we use it is to use a
1:42:16camera to see whether an old cell has
1:42:18been rejuvenated. Using a a camera,
1:42:21>> we can look at millions of cells and say
1:42:23those cells were 90 years old and now
1:42:26they're 20. That's AI. But the other
1:42:28thing that's even more impressive is we
1:42:30can start with a trillion molecules,
1:42:33theoretical molecules like rveratrol,
1:42:35but
1:42:35>> trillions of them. And then instead of
1:42:38doing each experiment at the bench in
1:42:41the lab, which would take hundreds of
1:42:43years even with robots, we can do it
1:42:46virtually and AI can look at a target
1:42:50protein and we actually know what the
1:42:51targets are that we want to reverse
1:42:53aging and say which of these trillion
1:42:56will reverse aging and it it's given us
1:42:59a few hundred to test which we're
1:43:01testing right now.
1:43:03>> Interesting.
1:43:04And [clears throat]
1:43:07now and what give me give me in basic
1:43:10language simple words that if
1:43:14you wouldn't be using AI how many years
1:43:17it would have taken you to do exactly
1:43:19what you're doing right now.
1:43:20>> Well I asked an AI model to estimate
1:43:24this.
1:43:24>> Yeah. And it did all the calculations
1:43:27and it said in my lab with let's say
1:43:30there's 20 people working it would have
1:43:33taken 160 years and over a billion
1:43:37dollars to do what we did for it cost us
1:43:40about $20,000 and a few months of work.
1:43:44>> Wow.
1:43:44>> And that that was a few years ago. Now
1:43:48it's probably you could do it on your
1:43:49phone. It's going to get to the point
1:43:51where anybody can design a drug using
1:43:53their phone.
1:43:54We're almost there.
1:43:57The hard part though is taking the the
1:43:59chemical that you've that's been
1:44:00designed by the AI and put that into
1:44:03humans. And all of that's hundreds of
1:44:05millions of dollars. Which is why
1:44:07unfortunately I think these claims that
1:44:09we're going to cure diseases in the next
1:44:11few years is wrong cuz finding the
1:44:13design of the molecule is the easy part.
1:44:16>> Remember we we've done this many times
1:44:17in my lab.
1:44:18>> Yeah.
1:44:19>> It's making them work and testing them.
1:44:21That's the slow part cuz that involves
1:44:24humans, the government, regulation,
1:44:27money.
1:44:28>> Yeah. Other mafias. [laughter]
1:44:32>> Well, we we face a lot of competition.
1:44:34So, my my company, Life Biosciences,
1:44:36which is is leading
1:44:39>> uh some of the competitors are Jeff
1:44:41Bezos, Sam Holtman, uh and others. Um
1:44:45they've put billions to try and uh catch
1:44:48up with us. But the good news is there's
1:44:50not just one winner. Yeah,
1:44:51>> it's a whole big industry that will come
1:44:54and there are lots of diseases that can
1:44:56be tackled.
1:44:57>> Do you think there's a farmer mafia?
1:45:00>> Oh,
1:45:02tell me a bit more what you're thinking.
1:45:04>> No, I'm asking you. What do you think
1:45:05when I say this?
1:45:07>> So, I'll tell you what I don't believe.
1:45:08I don't believe that farmer companies
1:45:11I hear this sometimes. Farmer companies
1:45:13don't want me to be successful because
1:45:16it will put them out of business. M
1:45:18>> everybody that I know at farmer
1:45:20companies wants to help people and if
1:45:22they see a new area of science like what
1:45:24we're doing they'll do it too and in
1:45:26fact a lot of large companies farmer
1:45:30companies are working on age reversal
1:45:31now so they're jumping on it they're not
1:45:34trying to stop it
1:45:36are they banning together I don't think
1:45:38so I think that they are competitive
1:45:41but I have seen really bad tactics
1:45:46against my lab against my companies from
1:45:49certain pharmaceutical companies.
1:45:51>> Like what tactics?
1:45:53>> Um
1:45:55doing poor science that was wrong to
1:45:57invalidate patents that we had filed.
1:46:01Uh and these stories get into the
1:46:04newspapers and the journals. One of them
1:46:06is res the rveratrol story. We published
1:46:09that rveratrol activates this enzyme s
1:46:12one which is true. It's all been proven
1:46:15now. It's not disputed, but that one
1:46:18company I'm not going to mention because
1:46:19they're one of the most powerful
1:46:20companies in the world put out a paper
1:46:23that said Sinclair's work is totally
1:46:26wrong. It invalidated they tried to
1:46:28invalidate our patent
1:46:31and uh it caused a lot of problems. We I
1:46:34couldn't get any money in my lab for
1:46:37years. My lab dwindled down to just a
1:46:39few people hanging on for dear life. I
1:46:41almost was put out of business as a
1:46:44scientist because a large company and
1:46:47the newspapers and even the world's
1:46:50leading scientific journal believed that
1:46:52I was wrong. Even my university, I'm at
1:46:55Harvard, right? I had a group of people
1:46:57come into my office and quiz me and say,
1:46:59"What? What's going on here?"
1:47:02Like, it was really bad. I I stayed in
1:47:04bed for a week. I was so depressed. I
1:47:06thought of quitting. It was rough. And
1:47:09to this day, people still think that I
1:47:11was wrong. But we've we've been proven
1:47:12right since. But uh it that was that was
1:47:16really bad tactics that they used. And
1:47:18they've still not either publicly
1:47:20apologized or said that they were wrong.
1:47:24>> And what kept you going then?
1:47:28>> Because what I'm doing is bigger than
1:47:29me. That what I'm trying to do is to
1:47:32give everybody a healthier life. And if
1:47:35I have to suffer as a consequence, I'm
1:47:37prepared to do that. I'm prepared to die
1:47:39for this cause. It's really that
1:47:41important to me. So, having a little bit
1:47:43of uh trouble in my life, that's okay.
1:47:47Um
1:47:49I was a little bit depressed because I
1:47:50felt like the world was ungrateful, but
1:47:53you know, I I got out of bed, I went
1:47:55back to the lab, and we just worked
1:47:56harder at trying to to to test the
1:48:00theory and see if we were right. We did
1:48:01turn out to be right. But what I learned
1:48:04from that episode, which was 2010,
1:48:07um is believe in yourself, do great
1:48:10science, and don't get discouraged. Just
1:48:13keep going. And that's a lesson that
1:48:14everybody in life should have because if
1:48:17you do something important, there will
1:48:19be critics.
1:48:20>> Yeah.
1:48:20>> There will be people in the media
1:48:22telling you that you're not good. Um and
1:48:25you will you will face problems. It's
1:48:28not going to be easy. Uh but you have to
1:48:31expect it and get have a very thick skin
1:48:33and not take it personally.
1:48:35>> True.
1:48:35>> Yeah. I think it was Benjamin Franklin
1:48:37or some one of the founding fathers that
1:48:39said that uh if you don't have enemies,
1:48:42you're probably not doing anything
1:48:43important.
1:48:43>> Yeah.
1:48:44>> How about you? Do do you have crit
1:48:46critics or
1:48:46>> Of course.
1:48:47>> Really?
1:48:48>> Of course. Very very few though.
1:48:50>> Yeah. Good.
1:48:50>> Because I'm in the probably a good green
1:48:53zone,
1:48:54>> but
1:48:54>> Well, you're also a very very kind and
1:48:56honest person. Uh but yeah anyone who
1:48:59has has fame will attract
1:49:02>> absolutely there will be
1:49:04>> thousands of people who would not like
1:49:07>> you know just this part as well like
1:49:10there will be people who be like hey why
1:49:11did you question about that thing he was
1:49:13wrong and you just listen to him and
1:49:16and then they just bash me and call me
1:49:18that I was a I was soft on you and then
1:49:21there'll be people who would just call
1:49:22me was like oh you were clueless in
1:49:24front of him and then there'll be people
1:49:25who will be like if I do come very well
1:49:28prepared, do everything right,
1:49:30understand your scientific theories as
1:49:31well. And then I ask you on that then
1:49:33people like oh if if it was only about
1:49:35science you would have done it in some
1:49:37journal why you making podcast about
1:49:39like
1:49:39>> no matter what you do there'll be
1:49:41critics who will just you make it
1:49:43advanced you make it curious you make it
1:49:45dumb in all three you'll face critics so
1:49:47it's okay.
1:49:48>> Yeah and the lesson here is just keep
1:49:50doing your best be honest
1:49:52>> be be authentic and you'll be okay.
1:49:55>> Yeah. And but the work that you're doing
1:49:58I've I was I keep reading like almost
1:50:01every year it just appears some of the
1:50:04other place some quote like this where
1:50:06it says that anyone who is inventing
1:50:09anything new gets ridiculed by people of
1:50:14that generation. Oh yeah.
1:50:16>> Only the next generation actually you
1:50:19know starts uh reaping the rewards and
1:50:21they become grateful like people who
1:50:23were peers and colleagues of Edison they
1:50:26ridiculed him right and now because of
1:50:29him we are doing all of these things and
1:50:31that's so so Edison was getting rid then
1:50:34>> who are we
1:50:35>> right you have to expect it and people
1:50:37don't like change um they certainly
1:50:40don't like
1:50:40>> Are you experiencing this? Oh yeah, it's
1:50:43it's been rough. The most vicious
1:50:46attacks are from my scientific
1:50:47colleagues.
1:50:49>> Um the public is generally very
1:50:51supportive. It's the scientists, but it
1:50:53it it's a scientist's job to criticize
1:50:55other scientists. That's how science
1:50:57progresses. There's nothing wrong with
1:51:01cordial
1:51:02um professional,
1:51:05gentlemanly, a gentle person um
1:51:08arguments.
1:51:09>> Fair. So all of these things do like do
1:51:12you get stressed because of all of these
1:51:14things?
1:51:15>> I used to. Yeah, definitely when when I
1:51:17was your age because I hadn't made it
1:51:20yet. I hadn't reached my goal. I hadn't
1:51:23done everything I wanted to do. I'm now
1:51:25at a point in life where
1:51:28I've already achieved more than I
1:51:30thought I would in my lifetime. So
1:51:31everything else is a bonus. Um I have
1:51:34three wonderful kids. I have a wonderful
1:51:36partner. Um I have a great job. I get to
1:51:39have fun talking about my work. Um, and
1:51:42I have really smart students who do the
1:51:44hard work. They're back at the lab today
1:51:45working hard on a Sunday. I, um, I don't
1:51:50get stressed. And my heart rate is in
1:51:53the 40s usually, at night for sure,
1:51:56during the day maybe 50. Um, and my
1:51:59heart rate variability, which I think
1:52:01you would know, you want a high heart
1:52:03rate variability, it's in the 90s, which
1:52:06is like a, you know, a marathon runner.
1:52:09>> Yeah, it's cool.
1:52:09>> And I think that's because of my
1:52:12practice, which is to never get
1:52:14stressed.
1:52:15>> Nice. See, this is what we need to
1:52:17promote as well. We need to get a lot of
1:52:20people to go India, [laughter]
1:52:21then promote the Indian wisdom, like the
1:52:24Indian ancient wisdom. They figured it
1:52:27out.
1:52:28Oh, they did the food, the relaxation,
1:52:31the meditation,
1:52:32>> the routines there. There's so many
1:52:34things which we which are yet to be
1:52:36discovered by the world.
1:52:37>> Well, it's the world's oldest religion
1:52:39as well. It's one of the oldest
1:52:41cultures.
1:52:41>> It's it's the oldest civilization. Yeah.
1:52:43>> Yeah. So, of course, they figured it out
1:52:45early.
1:52:46>> Yeah.
1:52:46>> We're still catching up. And actually,
1:52:48some of the medicines are Aurvedic
1:52:50medicines. There's a lot of uh truth to
1:52:53that. And we're just finding the
1:52:55molecules that are working in those
1:52:58those ancient medicines from the plant
1:53:00world mostly.
1:53:01>> True. And you're a big prop. Yeah. You
1:53:03promote plants a lot. So of course you
1:53:06would like that. Uh you like lot of
1:53:08Indian wisdom as well. I'm sure. Okay.
1:53:11Tell me is we were talking about stress.
1:53:15Is aging partly accumulated stress?
1:53:20Um it is in the sense that when the
1:53:23cells the body gets overloaded with
1:53:25stress too much a little bit is good but
1:53:28if you go too far then these processes
1:53:30that drive aging
1:53:32>> happen faster.
1:53:34>> Um but we have to be careful not to
1:53:36confuse psychological stress with
1:53:39biological stress.
1:53:40>> Explain both.
1:53:42>> All right. Psychological stress we all
1:53:44know we're worried. We have cortisol
1:53:46levels in our body. where fight or
1:53:49flight mode that is psychological stress
1:53:52that will age you faster. We know that
1:53:54be mostly because the hormones that come
1:53:56out of your system are causing
1:54:00accelerated aging.
1:54:02Um that's psychological that that you
1:54:05can change within minutes. Right now if
1:54:07we do breathing exercises we can bring
1:54:09that down. That's easy to fix.
1:54:13That's step one. The other is biological
1:54:15stress. Now, a little bit of biological
1:54:18stress is good. Remember how I said
1:54:22fasting, exercise, sauna, um
1:54:25>> cold plunge,
1:54:26>> cold plunge. Um these are going to
1:54:29activate your body's defenses against
1:54:32adversity. But if you do too much, if
1:54:35you uh let's say if you don't eat for so
1:54:42long that you start to chew up your
1:54:44muscles, that's not that's too much
1:54:45stress. If you go to a rock concert, if
1:54:48you uh go out in the sun and get very
1:54:52sunburnt, that's going to be too much
1:54:54for your cells. That's not mild stress.
1:54:56That's not adversity. That's serious
1:54:58damage. And that's going to help this
1:55:01process of unraveling. And we know the
1:55:03evidence of that. Anyone that spent
1:55:05their life in the sun
1:55:07>> will have experienced broken DNA from
1:55:09the light. And that this process will
1:55:12accelerate. And you can even see there's
1:55:15a photo on the internet of a woman. I
1:55:18think it's a woman anyway, a person who
1:55:20got sunburnt on one side of the face
1:55:22because the sun was coming through the
1:55:23window of the car, the truck. And so one
1:55:27half is much older than the other side.
1:55:29And so we know that the sun can
1:55:31accelerate skin aging. And it's the same
1:55:34for the rest of the body. Too much
1:55:35damage will accelerate aging.
1:55:38>> But shouldn't we be in the sun? That's
1:55:39what everybody
1:55:40>> a little bit. For sure. A little bit.
1:55:41Now, I'm there's debate. Some doctors
1:55:44say no sun. No sun is good. I I in my
1:55:48life, I like to get a little bit of sun,
1:55:50but not enough to feel burnt. That's
1:55:53definitely too much. And I usually wear
1:55:55sunscreen and a hat. But yes, um I like
1:55:58natural sun. Um but be aware that any
1:56:03sun is going to accelerate aging.
1:56:07And at what point this small damages
1:56:12becomes a permanent stress damage in my
1:56:14body?
1:56:15>> Yeah. All right. So that's a very good
1:56:17point. Let's go back to this this balls
1:56:19here that I've got here.
1:56:22>> So what we we want is this always to
1:56:24stay stable and and in this structure
1:56:27>> and a little bit of damage, a little bit
1:56:29of adversity, a little bit of hunger
1:56:31hunger or a sauna is not going to change
1:56:33this.
1:56:34>> Okay. It's when it gets to a point where
1:56:37this these proteins have to react and go
1:56:40away
1:56:41>> and fix
1:56:43>> that's too much.
1:56:44>> Yeah.
1:56:44>> So rock concert or X-rays will cause
1:56:47this.
1:56:48>> So a little bit is okay and then this is
1:56:51too much because then these don't always
1:56:53come back to where they come from where
1:56:54they started. That's what we've seen.
1:56:57Um, and so actually if you if you just
1:57:00give a little bit of DNA damage, um, a
1:57:03tiny bit, it doesn't cause this problem.
1:57:06The cells can deal with it. But if the
1:57:08if there's a broken chromosome, not just
1:57:11a little nick, but a broken one, that's
1:57:13a very serious problem for the cell. If
1:57:15it doesn't fix that chromosome, either
1:57:17the cell will die or the animal will get
1:57:20cancer. So you have to fix it. So that's
1:57:22why it's panic for the cell. And this
1:57:25comes apart. if you break a chromosome.
1:57:28But usually what happens with DNA damage
1:57:30is just a little bit gets broken. Half
1:57:32of it gets broken here.
1:57:34>> Okay?
1:57:34>> And you can easily fix that. That's not
1:57:36a big problem.
1:57:37>> But if your 6 ft comes apart into 3 ft
1:57:39and 3 ft, that's a big problem. That's
1:57:42called a double stranded DNA break.
1:57:44>> But how do I know like what am I doing
1:57:46on an everyday basis? Because this
1:57:47sounds scientific. Like how do I know
1:57:50>> that what I'm doing is actually making
1:57:53me better or damaging me?
1:57:55>> Yeah.
1:57:56Well, I I would go with the evidence
1:57:59which is that we we know the healthy
1:58:03fasting practices from human studies. We
1:58:05know the healthy sauna practices. Um so,
1:58:08for instance, with sauna, you can
1:58:10definitely overdo it. There's
1:58:11temperatures that you don't want to go
1:58:12and and you you can dehydrate. But
1:58:15[snorts] if if you look online, if you
1:58:17go to pubmed.org, ORG you can read
1:58:20papers about sauners and it's it's it
1:58:23those papers will tell you that like 20
1:58:26minutes three times a week is associated
1:58:29with less heart disease. So my point is
1:58:32you don't need to know molecular
1:58:34biology. You don't need to understand
1:58:35this fully.
1:58:36>> In fact I don't even understand this
1:58:38fully.
1:58:39>> So I go based on human studies what
1:58:41works and what seems to work.
1:58:44>> Do you because you're talking about
1:58:46sauna. Did you see the new thing that uh
1:58:48you need to freeze your balls before
1:58:50like when you're going to the when
1:58:52you're going to the
1:58:53>> keep them cold if you want to if you
1:58:54want to procreate?
1:58:55>> Yeah.
1:58:56>> Yeah. I would wrap them in
1:58:58>> Oh, for sure. We know that sperm
1:58:59requires cool because that's why it's
1:59:01it's the reason it's outside the body.
1:59:04>> And now I saw some videos where people
1:59:06are keeping a cold ice pack on the head
1:59:09as well. So they're keeping it on the
1:59:10head, they're keeping it on the balls
1:59:12and then they're saying
1:59:13>> why the head? Oh, that part I don't know
1:59:16about. I actually think that a bit of
1:59:18stress to the hair follicles could be
1:59:20good for hair. Um, I use red light to
1:59:22stimulate
1:59:23>> Okay.
1:59:24>> my uh my hair growth, but yeah, a little
1:59:26bit of stress on the head is good for
1:59:28you. Um,
1:59:30>> but freezing the balls. You think if
1:59:32someone's going to the sauna is not
1:59:34putting a nice cold pack down there,
1:59:36then is it a problem for a long time?
1:59:39uh not long time, but but in the short
1:59:41run, you'll make less sperm if you're
1:59:44even if you wear tight pants and get hot
1:59:46down there. Uh it's known that you need
1:59:49to be less than body temperature to make
1:59:52sperm in a in a productive way. Um at my
1:59:56age, it doesn't matter, but for for men
1:59:58that want to have children, yeah, I
2:00:01would think it would make sense to have
2:00:03I wouldn't freeze them. That would be
2:00:05worse.
2:00:06>> But just a cold towel down there
2:00:08probably I think that makes a lot of
2:00:10sense.
2:00:10>> Then you know when when you look at
2:00:12young people because you said young men
2:00:14right now
2:00:16so typically from 20 to 30 it's 10 years
2:00:19of
2:00:22hardcore hustle, bad work timings, toxic
2:00:26food, just your in financial insecurity.
2:00:29You're in struggle. Like you you're
2:00:32these 10 years you don't know what
2:00:33you're doing. Even if you're actually
2:00:35very ambitious and things are going
2:00:37right for you, you don't know when
2:00:38you're eating, when you're sleeping,
2:00:39what you're doing, and you're you're
2:00:40perpetually alive. So this 10 year of
2:00:43all these
2:00:45bad environment according to you, like
2:00:48according to aging, right? Can we
2:00:51reverse this damage?
2:00:54We're working on it. We can in animals
2:00:58and I think one day we we will be able
2:01:00to reverse it. But today if like that's
2:01:03today we don't have it. So let's say if
2:01:04anyone who has gone through this 10
2:01:06these 10 years or is going through these
2:01:0810 years of putting themselves will this
2:01:11become permanent damage and they will
2:01:12never be able to reverse?
2:01:15>> Uh no we think that all aging is
2:01:18reversible theoretically. Uh we're doing
2:01:21it in the eye. We think it'll work
2:01:23everywhere, but right now there's
2:01:25there's nothing that really reverses
2:01:29aging by more than a year or two. It's
2:01:32still early early days.
2:01:34>> So all these habits of 10 years, they're
2:01:36actually damaging us.
2:01:37>> Yeah. Yeah. That's why I tell young
2:01:39people, even teenagers, don't go out and
2:01:42party. Don't, you know, drink so much
2:01:44alcohol. Don't just eat pizza because
2:01:47what you're doing now will affect the
2:01:49rest of your life.
2:01:51>> But how But how do people stop partying?
2:01:54How do people stop like just working
2:01:56really hard and sleeping for 4 hours?
2:01:59Because that's where
2:02:01Well, working hard and sleeping for 4
2:02:03hours is
2:02:05is uh is pretty common. I still do that
2:02:08myself. It's It is hard, but it's but
2:02:12it's the really bad uh habits, the
2:02:15overdrinking. So, I used to drink every
2:02:18day some red wine. I don't do that
2:02:20anymore. I I think there are a lot of
2:02:22young people that have stopped drinking
2:02:23alcohol if they like like yourself. Did
2:02:26you ever drink alcohol?
2:02:27>> No.
2:02:27>> Great.
2:02:28>> Um I did and I regret it. Smoking is the
2:02:31big one. Smoking has chemicals in it
2:02:33that break DNA. So you're going to be
2:02:34like that mouse that got older faster if
2:02:36you smoke.
2:02:37>> Agree.
2:02:38>> Um so I would say there are some pretty
2:02:40easy things to to avoid doing. Um, there
2:02:43was a study from Harvard that showed
2:02:46that the men who lived the longest, they
2:02:49actually had 14 years of extra healthy
2:02:51life if they just did five things. And
2:02:54this is what I remember. It was don't
2:02:56overdrink, don't smoke, don't be
2:02:58overweight, uh, don't stress, and eat
2:03:02healthy. Those are what your grandmother
2:03:05would tell you probably.
2:03:06>> If you just do the basics,
2:03:08>> that's already 14 extra healthy years.
2:03:11But how do you get rid of the part which
2:03:12is no alcohol is easy, no smoking is
2:03:15easy,
2:03:16>> no
2:03:18>> no stress is such a part of your life
2:03:21today. If you're young and living in a
2:03:23large city like [clears throat] this,
2:03:25>> you're stressed about financial
2:03:26insecurity. You're stressed about
2:03:29>> AI taking your job. You're stressed
2:03:31about what's going to happen. You're
2:03:33stressed about your health. You're
2:03:34stressed about uh reversing the damage
2:03:37with all the sugar and alcohol that you
2:03:38have consumed over the past couple of
2:03:40years
2:03:41>> and you're stressed about finding the
2:03:43partner, starting a family. You can't
2:03:46get or probably if you have a toxic
2:03:47boss, you're stressed about that as
2:03:49well.
2:03:50>> How do you get rid of that?
2:03:52>> It's difficult. And I was not good at it
2:03:54until I was 50. And this is when I met
2:03:58Serena. What I've learned to do is to
2:04:02have faith in myself.
2:04:04That's the key.
2:04:07I was hard on myself. And you probably
2:04:10are cuz you're very successful. You're
2:04:11probably I I could do this better. I
2:04:13should do this better. Why am I not
2:04:14doing this better? Why didn't I sleep
2:04:15more? Why didn't I You got to stop that.
2:04:18That is destructive.
2:04:20What I do now is, yeah, I'm concerned
2:04:24that my lab could run out of money.
2:04:26Yeah, I'm concerned that the trial might
2:04:28not work. I'm concerned that some
2:04:30newspaper will make up a story. Yes, but
2:04:33I don't dwell on it. It comes to my mind
2:04:37and I push it away and I tell myself
2:04:40I believe in myself. I can't control
2:04:43what they're doing but I can control
2:04:45what I am doing and this is what I'm
2:04:47going to focus on. And I am older so I
2:04:50have a little bit more experience that I
2:04:52know that I can do it.
2:04:56But I wish earlier in my life I had had
2:04:58this attitude which is I believe in
2:05:00myself and I'm not going to worry. I
2:05:03will figure it out.
2:05:05I will face trouble but I know that I'm
2:05:07strong enough to get through it and I
2:05:09will I will defeat whatever comes my
2:05:11way. And that's how I live now. So I
2:05:14don't get upset with these things.
2:05:16>> It's it's good to hear. It's very
2:05:19difficult to practice.
2:05:20>> It is.
2:05:21>> I'm trying.
2:05:22>> It took me 50 years but yes try. It's so
2:05:25important. Your life will be completely
2:05:27different if you can master that.
2:05:29>> What do you think? What are the top
2:05:31three things that young person is doing
2:05:34which is damaging them the most?
2:05:37>> Oh well um overeating number one being
2:05:41obese and and is the number one
2:05:44globally.
2:05:45>> Okay.
2:05:45>> Um we know that that accelerates aging.
2:05:48>> Um the second would be not moving
2:05:51enough. We sit down too much. We play
2:05:53computer games. were at a desk job. Um,
2:05:57and then the third would be the quality
2:05:58of the food is terrible. Uh, it's easy
2:06:01and cheap to buy fast food and it's the
2:06:05food is engineered to be addictive
2:06:08and it's not as much fun eating, you
2:06:12know, hummus or lentil curry. These are
2:06:16not as exciting things. And I thought of
2:06:20plants as the side dish to meat my whole
2:06:23life until recently.
2:06:25But those are the three things if you
2:06:27can uh
2:06:31>> maintain a h a healthy weight. So for me
2:06:36as soon as I start to build up more than
2:06:37that much on my body on my chest I know
2:06:40I need to get fast and get rid of it. So
2:06:43there's that. Then there's move move.
2:06:47Just get a standing desk, go for a walk,
2:06:49go for a run, get to the gym, do
2:06:51something, anything. Just don't sit all
2:06:53the day. So, in my office, I have a
2:06:55standing desk. I'm rarely sitting the
2:06:57whole day. Um, you know, my feet get a
2:07:00little bit tired, but it's it it's
2:07:03great. It's very good for my my muscles,
2:07:05my legs are strong, and all I'm doing is
2:07:07standing. And then the third one is
2:07:09quality of food. Fresh food, fresh
2:07:11colored food. You'll feel so great. Um,
2:07:14don't overcook things. I I know most
2:07:16cultures including India overcook their
2:07:19vegetables. Maintain it. Make it
2:07:21crunchy. It's not bad. It actually
2:07:23tastes better. So um cuz you're
2:07:26destroying a lot of these polyphenols if
2:07:27you overcook it
2:07:29>> or over microwave it. Um so yeah, just
2:07:32slightly steam, slightly boil uh or eat
2:07:36fresh vegetables. Salad is great.
2:07:40>> All day salad. I also I was in until
2:07:44last to last year I was exactly like
2:07:47you. I used to see vegetables as a side
2:07:48thing. It was it was not the main dish.
2:07:51It was a side dish even though I'm
2:07:52vegetarian. Ah
2:07:54>> because I would kick I would eat like
2:07:56overly cooked lentil soup which we call
2:07:59dal in India. So I would eat that or
2:08:02like vegetables which are filled with
2:08:05oil and curries and like just mixed
2:08:07everything. And I always used to think
2:08:09that that's healthy. I'm eating
2:08:10vegetables. But
2:08:11>> that's so true. Um there's there are
2:08:13studies that show that vegetarianism
2:08:18is pretty good for longevity. But what's
2:08:20really interesting is if you break it
2:08:22down into healthy vegetarian and not
2:08:24healthy vegetarian, there's a big
2:08:26difference. The healthy vegetarians are
2:08:28way ahead of the non-healthy
2:08:30vegetarians. So just being vegetarian is
2:08:33not sufficient. Give me give me
2:08:35different uh uh differences between
2:08:37healthy vegetarianism and not healthy
2:08:40vegetarian.
2:08:41>> Oh well, so an unhealthy vegetarian
2:08:43would eat uh French fries, chips, bread,
2:08:48uh and overcooked soups and and other
2:08:52things. It's kind of winter food is is
2:08:53is not healthy vegetarian. Healthy
2:08:57vegetarian is yes salads obviously, but
2:09:00also um the legumes. So, baba ganoush uh
2:09:05[sighs] hummus these things are also
2:09:08full of protein and vitamins as well. Um
2:09:10so a typical meal for me and for Serena
2:09:15would be some fresh fruit, fresh
2:09:18vegetables,
2:09:19maybe a bit of olive oil, balsamic
2:09:22vinegar, and uh if we steam the
2:09:24vegetables, it's very quick, very light.
2:09:26So the the asparagus would still be
2:09:28crunchy, the broccoli would be crunchy.
2:09:31Um, but yeah, they've if if your
2:09:33vegetables start to lose the color a
2:09:35lot, you've you've gone into the
2:09:37unhealthy side.
2:09:39>> Yeah, that's a good metric. If the
2:09:41original colors is no more the color,
2:09:43then
2:09:45>> you've made it unhealthy.
2:09:46>> You know why? Because these chemicals,
2:09:48these polyphenols are the colors and
2:09:50they're the health. So the the color
2:09:52disappears, the health disappears.
2:09:54>> Interesting.
2:09:57>> Okay. Tell me the ideal protocol for a
2:10:00young person.
2:10:02>> Well,
2:10:02>> how many hours of sleeping? Like this is
2:10:04the most basic thing, but still I want
2:10:05to know.
2:10:06>> All right. Well, I am going to say a few
2:10:09things, but the the detailed is in
2:10:10lifespan my podcast. Okay. So, everyone
2:10:13tune in to that for the detail, but the
2:10:16cheat sheet would be
2:10:18uh try to eat less than three meals a
2:10:21day.
2:10:22>> Uh see if you can join a gym so you can
2:10:24lift weights. If not, get some weights
2:10:26at home. And that's pretty easy.
2:10:27>> If your gym has a sauna, great. If you
2:10:30can afford a sauna, get one at home and
2:10:34uh move, move, move, move. So, walk
2:10:36upstairs, don't take the elevator, get a
2:10:39standing desk, walk to the shop. It's
2:10:42these small things add up. Uh and and
2:10:45monitor yourself, right? You have a ring
2:10:48on. I have couple of rings on. I'm
2:10:51always looking to do better.
2:10:54uh more more steps, lower heart rate,
2:10:57more heart rate variability, better
2:10:58sleep. Um speaking of sleep, we haven't
2:11:01touched on that.
2:11:04What I've learned and Serena also taught
2:11:06me is
2:11:06>> it's not the number of hours that you
2:11:08sleep, it's the quality. And you can
2:11:10measure deep sleep. And the amount of
2:11:12deep sleep you get is really what
2:11:14determines the brain fog in the day and
2:11:17how energetic you are. So she and I can
2:11:19[clears throat] go for a week with only
2:11:21a few hours sleep. And that's not a
2:11:23problem for us because we are very
2:11:25efficient at sleeping. We get into sleep
2:11:27quickly. We dream. We get deep sleep.
2:11:30And we wake up fresh even after just a
2:11:32few hours. Now, we don't do a few hours
2:11:35forever. We do catch up on weekends
2:11:37usually. But it I do want everybody to
2:11:41know that you can still have healthy
2:11:44sleep as long as it's efficient. And
2:11:46some of these devices like this one will
2:11:48tell you your efficiency, right? And
2:11:51over 90% is typical for us.
2:11:55>> I need the sweet dreams.
2:11:57>> Sweet dreams is Serena's uh we were
2:11:59talking about this earlier. Sweet dreams
2:12:00is Serena's product that I take every
2:12:03pretty much every night to get into deep
2:12:04sleep.
2:12:06>> Yeah.
2:12:06>> And then the the protocol that you
2:12:08talked about and the things that you
2:12:09talked about, is it true for a
2:12:1125year-old, 45year-old, 65year-old all
2:12:14or do they do it differently?
2:12:17Um well the exercise and the sleep um
2:12:22and the diet they're universal but when
2:12:26we get into the next higher level of
2:12:29detail about which supplements which
2:12:31medicines
2:12:32>> um then it changes over time
2:12:35>> and then we then there's stem cells and
2:12:37peptides and blood transfusions. There's
2:12:39another level of complexity which we
2:12:41talk about on my podcast.
2:12:44But I would say in your 20s, what we've
2:12:47talked about today is a very good start.
2:12:49And I know that your listener
2:12:50demographic is 20 to 30. So start with
2:12:53the basics. Um get the those right and
2:12:57then you know consider some supplements.
2:13:00>> You know the ones that I take for
2:13:01example resveratrol in the morning. Um
2:13:05NMN in the morning for the NAD boost.
2:13:07>> Should young people take that?
2:13:10Well, I don't ever make recommendations
2:13:12cuz I'm I don't know everybody's blood
2:13:14work.
2:13:17I would say the science is strong that
2:13:21taking it um can have benefits at any
2:13:24age, though we haven't tested it on
2:13:27people in their teens and 20s yet. So,
2:13:30there's an unknown, but based on mouse
2:13:33research, which we've done for the last
2:13:3515 years, it should be fine.
2:13:39I wanted to say though, and it's
2:13:41important that everybody listening
2:13:43knows,
2:13:44>> um,
2:13:45>> I measure everything, right? I I know
2:13:48when something's changing. I know if
2:13:50it's doing good or bad, and it's all
2:13:53done under doctor's supervision. And
2:13:55that's important,
2:13:56>> right? We don't want to just take
2:13:58something and hope for the best. And we
2:14:00don't want to do it without our doctors
2:14:01knowing about it. So, I would encourage
2:14:04everybody to do what I do and what what
2:14:06my father does and what Serena does is
2:14:10we measure things and we talk to
2:14:12doctors. Serena and I talk to three
2:14:14different doctors every week about
2:14:15things. That's a bit excessive cuz
2:14:18that's our life. But I do encourage
2:14:20people to not just trust what you hear
2:14:23on the internet. Research it yourself.
2:14:26Talk to your doctor. Take one thing. See
2:14:28if it works for you. Measure it. Look
2:14:30for a change. If you don't see a change,
2:14:33why do it?
2:14:34>> Fair.
2:14:35>> Yeah.
2:14:35>> Is there actually this this is a better
2:14:38question. While I was asking, I just
2:14:40turned my question. One supplement that
2:14:45young people should never take.
2:14:49>> Um,
2:14:49>> which is
2:14:50>> yes
2:14:51>> specifically for people above the age of
2:14:5340 or like under 40 or under 35. People
2:14:56should not take at all.
2:15:02There are medicines that people my age
2:15:06sometimes take for longevity. Um there's
2:15:09a diabetes drug metformin which lowers
2:15:12blood sugar. That one I think is
2:15:16uh
2:15:18extreme for someone in their 20s to be
2:15:20taking. Why? Unless you have a history
2:15:23like you, uh, your body is is still very
2:15:26sensitive to insulin, able to deal with
2:15:29a lot of metabolic changes. So, it's not
2:15:33necessary. And so, why take the risk
2:15:35with a medicine?
2:15:37>> There's another drug that's even more
2:15:39risky
2:15:40>> called rapamy. Have you heard of this
2:15:43drug?
2:15:43>> No. So, rapamy is a favorite of the
2:15:47longevity field because when you feed it
2:15:49to animals, different types of animals,
2:15:51they live longer. Um, but it also
2:15:53affects the immune system. If you take
2:15:55too much, it makes your immune system go
2:15:57down.
2:15:59And, uh, that one has a lot of side
2:16:01effects if you take high doses. So that
2:16:04one for me would be if you if you were
2:16:07to force me to say what not to take.
2:16:10That to me seems too extreme and
2:16:11unnecessary in young people to be trying
2:16:14that because the risk is too high versus
2:16:17the reward.
2:16:19That's my opinion. Um some may differ.
2:16:23Some people love um rapamy.
2:16:25Um even I am cautious with rapamy at my
2:16:28age because it has toxicities. It
2:16:31affects the immune system. Um and I am
2:16:35concerned about the long-term side
2:16:37effects of this drug.
2:16:40Um the ones that I take like with the
2:16:43reserverrol and the enem these are
2:16:45natural molecules. They exist in our
2:16:47food. They exist in our bodies.
2:16:49>> So the risk is really low and the
2:16:51potential gain is
2:16:53>> correct. But is there any specific
2:16:55supplement which is easily available and
2:16:57people are taking right now and which we
2:16:59should not take? Shouldn't I sodetamine
2:17:02as a supplement that's out there? Well,
2:17:04the there is some scientific debate
2:17:07about one particular supplement um it's
2:17:12an amino acid called torine and there
2:17:15was one study that gave torine to mice
2:17:17and they lived I think it was 15%
2:17:18longer. So I started taking torine and
2:17:21didn't see much benefit to me
2:17:23>> based on my blood work
2:17:25>> and then a study I think it was last
2:17:26year came out and found that there was
2:17:28no decrease in this amino acid in older
2:17:32people and so I've stopped taking it for
2:17:35that reason. So I think if if people are
2:17:37taking highdose torine they should look
2:17:39at the science and make a decision for
2:17:41themselves.
2:17:43What should is there a point like where
2:17:47someone could get obsessed with all
2:17:49these longevity tools and protocols and
2:17:52at what point it is
2:17:54>> it is detrimental for your body it's
2:17:56actually damaging not helping like
2:17:58you're waking up certain point you're
2:17:59tracking this you're tracking that
2:18:01you're doing cold plunge you're doing
2:18:02sauna you're doing eating like
2:18:04>> you know how you have these ninjas
2:18:07>> yeah I mean there are definitely people
2:18:08who
2:18:09>> obsess about it I don't know if it's
2:18:11overdoing it but they're obsessed for
2:18:13sure. Um I'm not in that category. I'm a
2:18:16scientist and I do it for a learning
2:18:18exercise. I want to learn. I want to
2:18:20teach.
2:18:21>> Um and it's also enjoyable. It's it's
2:18:24like a hobby.
2:18:25>> So I I think that if you read up about
2:18:28it, you become knowledgeable about it
2:18:31and you follow, let's say, follow me on
2:18:33social media, it can become enjoyable.
2:18:35It's it's like a something that you do
2:18:38as as a hobby. But hobbies can become
2:18:41detrimental if you become obsessed.
2:18:43>> Yeah.
2:18:43>> With anything.
2:18:44>> Yeah.
2:18:44>> Right. You can collect a few cars, but
2:18:46if you want to spend all your money on
2:18:48cars is detrimental. Same with uh
2:18:50longevity. If it is taking too much of
2:18:53your salary, too much of your time, if
2:18:56you're taking too many supplements at
2:18:58once without testing them on yourself,
2:19:01then you've gone too far. I'll tell you,
2:19:03for me, I have a I have a bag of
2:19:06supplements that I take with me on my
2:19:07travel. I've worked with these and
2:19:10tested them on my body for some of them
2:19:12for over 15 years and it's like a
2:19:15symphony of supplements. I I I know what
2:19:18I'm taking. Um
2:19:20I'm at a point where I've adjusted my
2:19:24life and I know what to take and I'm
2:19:26happy with it. Occasionally I try
2:19:28something new. Occasionally I stop
2:19:30taking something. So that I think that's
2:19:32a healthy way to exist is you you do it
2:19:35for fun and then
2:19:37>> you know if I skip it or I forget my
2:19:39supplement I'm not going to worry. If I
2:19:41eat some meat I'm not going to worry. If
2:19:43I have breakfast I'm not going to worry.
2:19:45But it's the consistency. It's I've been
2:19:48taking resveratrol almost every day for
2:19:51you know 15 years or more. I've missed a
2:19:54few days but it's consistent.
2:19:56Exercise, walking, all these things.
2:19:59It's, you know, longevity doesn't come
2:20:01overnight. It can take decades to
2:20:04appear, but you can't decide at my age,
2:20:07oh, I'm going to suddenly live long. Not
2:20:10yet. We're working on it. But to get to
2:20:13my age and have my kind of a heart rate
2:20:16and heart rate variability,
2:20:18you do need to start, I think, decades
2:20:22earlier or at least 10 years earlier
2:20:24>> and optimize.
2:20:26>> Preferably your age. I wish that I
2:20:27started at your age. I didn't really get
2:20:29into it until my 30s. And in my 30s, you
2:20:34know, that was the 2000s. We didn't know
2:20:36much. There was not much you could do.
2:20:37Now, there's so much information. It's a
2:20:39wonderful time to be alive. And we can
2:20:41actually, I think, have a big impact on
2:20:43our future health by what we do, what we
2:20:45eat, what we swallow. Um, and it's it's
2:20:49fun, too.
2:20:50>> True. If if people are listening to it
2:20:53right like whoever is listening to it
2:20:55right now and feels overwhelmed by all
2:20:58the information in the world by this
2:20:59podcast by all the things they do in the
2:21:01world right
2:21:02>> and they could just change one thing in
2:21:05their life tomorrow morning which will
2:21:07have drastically the biggest impact on
2:21:10their aging on their life on making them
2:21:12better what would be that one thing
2:21:15>> right
2:21:16the first thing I'm going to say is it's
2:21:19not confusing
2:21:21if it's presented clearly
2:21:23>> and what I'm I'm building is a community
2:21:27where people will learn how to live
2:21:29their longest life. It's called
2:21:31lifespan.
2:21:32>> Yeah.
2:21:33>> So that's that's what I'm doing. I want
2:21:34everybody to experience this, but it can
2:21:36be overwhelming. So we need to explain
2:21:38it simply. So I would I would start with
2:21:43eating less often
2:21:45and within those meals eating fresh.
2:21:49That's the start.
2:21:51>> Okay.
2:21:52>> And then learn from there. So much to
2:21:54learn. It's really fun and you'll feel
2:21:57so great.
2:21:58>> Perfect. Done. I have the last question
2:22:00which I ask all my guests which is
2:22:04what is the cost of becoming David
2:22:08Sinclair?
2:22:11Oh,
2:22:18I rarely have time for myself.
2:22:22I was not a I was not the father to my
2:22:25children that I wanted to be. I'm trying
2:22:27to make up for that. Uh, but I was often
2:22:30away and I wasn't focused on the present
2:22:33and I
2:22:35did not appreciate
2:22:37my life and the I wasn't grateful for
2:22:41the joy that I could have had in my 30s
2:22:44and 40s because I was so focused on
2:22:49making the impact,
2:22:51testing the science, getting the
2:22:53molecules into people that I didn't stop
2:22:57and appreciate that I had three amazing
2:22:59kids and a house and a career that I
2:23:03loved. It was just go go go, always
2:23:05problem solving. Uh I'm different now.
2:23:10But I missed probably 20 years of joy
2:23:13that that
2:23:15came with being David Sinclair, of
2:23:17working, being obsessed to perfection.
2:23:21>> Thank you so much for sharing that. I
2:23:23really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank
2:23:25you for spending time with me,
2:23:28explaining me the science which was my
2:23:30nightmare today. I understand much
2:23:31better. I love this ball's analogy and
2:23:34this this structure. Thank you so much
2:23:36for doing all of this. I really really
2:23:37love our time here. Raj, I I appreciate
2:23:40you having me on and this was a really
2:23:42great chance to tell people about what's
2:23:45typically very complicated science and I
2:23:47think your questions were perfect to be
2:23:49able to explain something that I rarely
2:23:52have a chance to explain at this very
2:23:55simple level but very interesting level
2:23:57as well.
2:23:58>> Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks.
2:24:00>> See you know with me how I got exposed
2:24:02to your work.
2:24:03>> There was one guest on my podcast. He
2:24:05ended up talking about the stuff that
2:24:08you have written in the book and then
2:24:10there was another guest who also spoke
2:24:11and then the third I was like what is
2:24:14going on? [laughter]
2:24:16>> Oh that's interesting. Yeah.
2:24:17>> And I was so fascinated. Thank you for
2:24:19doing this. It's a pleasure to host you.
2:24:22>> Well no it's a pleasure to be here. Um I
2:24:24love how you educate. Uh this is not a
2:24:27podcast about advertising. It's not
2:24:29about you know making ourselves look
2:24:31good. It's it's for your listeners to
2:24:33learn. Yes. I love that. Yes.
2:24:35>> That's why you've been so successful.
2:24:37>> Thank you.
2:24:38>> Thank you.
2:24:38>> That's the whole goal. Today, we're
2:24:39going to learn. As you can see, we have
2:24:41the whole classroom set up here right
2:24:42now.
2:24:43>> Yes, exactly.
2:24:45>> Thank you for watching this episode till
2:24:47the end. We would love to know what you
2:24:49liked or disliked about this episode and
2:24:51which guests you would like to see on
2:24:53the show. Let us know in the comments.
2:24:55Your feedback help us improve and make
2:24:58every episode a little better. I'll see
2:25:00you next time. Until then, keep figuring
2:25:02out.

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