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Top CTO's Advice: The Real Reason You Are Not Growing | Sauvik Banerjjee | FO558 Raj Shamani — Transcript

by Raj Shamani · 18,606 words · 3,028 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Imagine there are two employees, same
0:01age, same kind of capability, same
0:03degree, same intelligence. They're
0:04walking in an organization. 25 years
0:06later, one ends up becoming a CEO, CTO,
0:09CXO, and the other is still stuck in
0:11middle management. What do you think the
0:13future CEO did differently?
0:14>> So that guy is fearless, doesn't
0:16overthink, executes like a maniac.
0:20Number four is he's [music]
0:21intelligently
0:23handles people. Last point, right, I
0:25think is you cannot give up. You give me
0:27an example and tell me what do you mean
0:29by when you say overthinking. I had two
0:31senior tech guys both were similar age
0:34both aspirational very ambitious. One
0:37before taking a decision would take 2 to
0:393 days the other would take few hours.
0:41One guy conceptual level pay he thought
0:44a lot. The other guy did everything
0:46possible beg borrow jugar quickly came
0:49and showed it and not 100% perfect but
0:52it got somewhere. This guy by the time
0:54he came back was a ppt.com. So
0:56perfection is a rubbish nonsense we are
0:59chasing. What's the framework you can
1:01teach which [music] will help us deal
1:02people in a better way. Your say do
1:04ratio has to be good.
1:05>> What is that? What you say and commit
1:07and what you do and deliver. That's a
1:08good framework to have. So you can
1:10actually deploy this framework saying
1:11that this is the squad. Example
1:13marketing. These are things you have
1:14said these are things you've done
1:15>> and hold them to a date.
1:16>> What is the biggest lie employees are
1:18told [music] about promotion.
1:20>> One thing I think which is very common
1:22is you are important to us. Second is we
1:25think you will grow in the organization
1:27then give him a 25% hike. Why you give
1:295% height? What is it rubbish?
1:31>> If you are an employee, how do you
1:32disagree with a powerful boss?
1:34>> I think the best way to do it is the
1:36voice decibel has to be low. So you can
1:38start by saying I like what you're
1:39saying but I have a very different point
1:41of view. Allow me to say it so that you
1:43have a couple of minutes to hear me out.
1:45This saying or saying sir I don't think
1:47this will work. Wrong sentence. Give the
1:48leader the respect. Nine out of 10 times
1:50he'll hear you out. Does the hardest
1:52working employee
1:55usually rise to the top?
1:56>> No.
1:57>> How do you catch a bullshitter? Someone
1:59who is just here for corporate
2:00bootlicking. Bullshitter
2:04bullshitter. Second thing is third
2:06bullshitter example is
2:11>> I have a small favor to ask you. I need
2:13you to subscribe to our channel. The
2:15more subscribers we have, the better and
2:18bigger guests we can bring and provide
2:20you more value through these
2:22conversations. And the full audio
2:24experience of this show is also
2:26available on Spotify where you can
2:28follow us and listen to the new episodes
2:30as well. Now, let's get into the
2:32episode. Our today's guest built a
2:34career in tech with no IIT, no MBA, and
2:37no coding background. He became CTO at
2:40Tata Digital, helped build the core of
2:42Reliance Gio at SAP and today he heads
2:45technology at an AI company. I'm talking
2:48about Shawik Banerjee, group CTO of
2:51Resolve AI and chairman of Resolve
2:53India. In this episode, we'll discuss
2:56what are three biggest lies every
2:58employer tells their employees, [snorts]
3:01why is middle management collapsing, and
3:04how do you avoid being on the wrong side
3:06of it? What separates a CEO from someone
3:08stuck in middle management and what will
3:11replace Google search voice and even
3:13your phone. Watch this episode till the
3:15end and to know more about Shawik
3:17Banerjee and Resolve AI check the link
3:20in the description below.
3:25You know what's what's fascinating in
3:26your career when I was going through all
3:28your timelines is
3:31you were a cricketer
3:33>> who left cricket because of money.
3:35>> Yes. Yes.
3:36>> You were not able to make money.
3:37>> Correct.
3:38>> Then you became just an employee.
3:39>> Yes.
3:40>> In a random company who was paying you
3:42more money. You had no like some
3:44affiliation love towards something,
3:45right? It just some company became an
3:47employee. And from just being an
3:49employee, you were not even a coder.
3:51You're not from IIT. You're not from
3:53>> some big MBA grad school like okay
3:56nothing. From there just from becoming
4:00just from being mere employee to you
4:03have become like top you've you've
4:06cracked becoming top CXOs
4:09in the largest conglomerates in the
4:11country and then now you are you are CXO
4:15level in a NASDAQ listed company like
4:19the whole journey is is wild like how
4:21did you go from being just an employee
4:24to the CXOs what was different continue
4:27because I'm sure a lot of other people
4:30who have join who joined as just an
4:32employee in that British Petroleum
4:34position
4:35they have not become
4:36>> this is why you are Raj Shamani this is
4:38the first time somebody has asked me
4:39this question in my life
4:42if I was a youngster of 23 24 year old
4:46my only thing was to do the impossible
4:51whoever in my ecosystem said
4:54organizations I used to say give me that
4:56challenge age at that age. I think it
4:58comes from a sports DNA, a professional
5:00sports DNA and there were projects in
5:06England.
5:08So I was given an opportunity
5:11to build music stack which is
5:15Napster was evangelizing downloads. My
5:17university was
5:19giving a grant to ensure labels and LPS
5:23are bought online. E-commerce boom.
5:26Okay.
5:27>> Said nobody can do it. I said I'll
5:28figure out a way to do it. So [snorts]
5:30three of us opened up a company called
5:33FiveS
5:34>> which became music stack and today music
5:36stack is the biggest back catalog online
5:38music platform in the world which I
5:39which of course we parted ways with. We
5:41got some money we got sold it out but
5:43the university was looking good.
5:44University of Darham, University of
5:46Sunderland, all of them were I said
5:49internet e-commerce and I have seen the
5:52Y2K to the heart of coding may or
5:55platforming [clears throat] may so I I'm
5:57always been like that. You give me a
5:59challenge when people said um people
6:03said India e-commerce
6:06I said
6:10>> you know India is very very brilliant
6:13India pin code logic
6:15>> you know zumato comes to your door right
6:17>> pin code serviceability you have been to
6:20UK and US right it's one building
6:23>> one postcode one zip code
6:24>> yes
6:25>> you have a unique ID basically is one
6:28unique ID has won that building.
6:29>> Yes.
6:30>> Unique post code. Unique bhat 40053 is
6:34your [snorts]
6:35>> pin code and my pin code.
6:36>> Yeah.
6:37>> Which covers 10 square kilometers.
6:40Imagine the invention needed not
6:42innovation invention needed to pin it
6:44down to your door for a delivery. So
6:47when I was building click
6:49>> yeah pin code serviceability is becoming
6:51a challenge.
6:53>> Zumato nothing was there. Nothing was
6:56there.
6:572015.
7:00So we cracked it. You're talking data
7:02click. I'm
7:03>> talking about data click. We cracked it.
7:04We cracked a logic where pin code based
7:06serviceability can happen from a store.
7:10>> Huh?
7:10>> So stores product comes from the
7:12warehouse to the stores.
7:14>> Okay. Any store. Take example of a
7:16fashion store. M
7:19>> that store can also ship out to this
7:23building if it is 1 km away
7:26>> rather than warehouse ship.
7:29>> So that was the first one why we needed
7:31the which is the nearest pin code of
7:33that building. So we mapped the
7:35buildings use obviously that version of
7:37whatever Google maps then there was
7:40>> which led to Google places today which
7:41is like pinned it down. So we created a
7:43whole algorithmic logic key this guy is
7:46operating from here this guy order has
7:48come from this building the nearest
7:51store is here so this guy has to have
7:53tat right 5 hour tat next day tat
7:57turnaround time
8:00>> when this comes is there going to be a
8:0214 floor or a seventh floor or
8:07there was no migate in that
8:08>> [clears throat]
8:08>> Mhm.
8:14where he or she is ordering from
8:21then baking in the delivery timeline
8:24delivery time delivery would have
8:25happened with the third party 4
8:28that algorithm that was exciting
8:32brands e-commerce launch. So the
8:35anything which is supremely impossible
8:38somebody like me I will get a team
8:42together ring fence shut everything down
8:44and then we'll crack if it's related to
8:46code or technology to be honest
8:48>> and that's and you've been like this
8:50from day one
8:51>> even when you were like
8:53>> a kid also
8:55but how is it possible to get impossible
8:58projects when you're
9:00>> I think right time I'm very lucky in
9:02that
9:02>> when you're a young employee because
9:03that's the difficult part Right? Like if
9:05you're a leader like today
9:07>> when you go to data click it's
9:09comparatively easier to get your hands
9:11on impossible projects but as an
9:13employee
9:14>> as an employee is very difficult but as
9:16an employee if you are vocal
9:21in England you are not shut down.
9:23>> Mhm.
9:25>> As India has become vocal
9:27>> in India also today you're not shut down
9:28right? Today or never? Today the India
9:30is
9:32>> Today the India is
9:34breaking doors which is the best thing
9:36about India. Today
9:38every time I land in India I feel
9:41every time I land in Mumbai I feel like
9:43this aa
9:48>> that time
9:51the English culture is very stoic. Stoic
9:54is a good word. Huh? Maybe stoic is a
9:56good word. very uptight story
10:00youngster talking and saying I give me
10:03the opportunity I can do this come
10:07and then also I'm not from that country
10:10>> they know that I am from India
10:13>> at least what the if I say I can do it
10:15it was not based on simply bravado
10:19>> okay
10:19>> it was based on a conviction that
10:22engineering computer science related I
10:24can crack build a firewall build an
10:26application build a com build under your
10:29capabilities under my capability
10:33and I know that there is a noise going
10:35on. I will walk into the leadership
10:36rooms and I'll say sorry I am a
10:41engineering level number two I think I
10:44can make this happen
10:45>> nice
10:46>> when they they see that proactiveness
10:49now anybody in the world will not shut
10:51you down
10:52>> n
10:54absolutely these are the this is a
10:56budget try it
10:58>> maybe not the full budget but like 10%
11:00of that and like we'll give you full
11:03later And
11:06hardly I have let people down. I might
11:08have taken time fail
11:12third time, fourth time I would have
11:13cried it. But the attitude is always
11:16move forward. Break it down. I should
11:19not say that I also can't. I should not
11:20be heard. H E R D
11:24I will be when I when I think something
11:26of an impossible this entire
11:29hallucinationfree models when
11:30everybody's hallucinating. [snorts] I
11:32said that no we'll do it
11:35ecosystem hallucination we will make it
11:38happen
11:39>> and which is why now all of them it's
11:41patented and all
11:42>> then the then what comes is you want to
11:46keep that attitude or you want to
11:47distribute that attitude
11:49>> then you create teams I'm sure your
11:51teams are also a reflection of your
11:53personality your leadership principles
11:55then you and then the sports background
11:57come
12:00so if you're being pulled down there is
12:03a way to return back. So that intent and
12:05attitude in today's day and age if you
12:07have subject matter expertise
12:10matters
12:10>> interesting
12:11>> matters
12:11>> you know
12:12>> I had a question but I'll ask that later
12:16about sports so I'm just writing a note
12:18okay
12:18>> because it's a very I know that'll take
12:20our conversation on a different tangent
12:22but it's a very interesting conversation
12:23so imagine there are two two employees
12:27okay
12:28>> some 20 year olds today they're watching
12:31this okay
12:32>> two exactly same people same age, same
12:35kind of capability, same degree, same
12:37intelligence. They're walking in an
12:39organization.
12:4025 years later, one ends up becoming a
12:44CEO, CTO, CXO. Okay? And the other is
12:47still stuck in middle management.
12:49>> What do you think the future CEO did
12:51differently?
12:52One,
12:55he didn't overthink.
12:59There are five things which I observe
13:00all the time. A lot of youngsters have
13:02become CEOs and CTOs also in front of
13:05me. I have had a 28 30 year old career.
13:08Now
13:09>> one is
13:11that exactly the same the other jumps
13:15and becomes one didn't overthink other
13:17executed.
13:19>> Other the third one is being fearless.
13:24It's a big sentence to say I am fearless
13:27and I am not scared of failure.
13:28Everybody in the world is scared of
13:29failure.
13:31You know you've met so many wonderful
13:33brilliant brains in the planet. I have
13:36met a few. All of us are scared.
13:38>> Yeah.
13:39>> But how do you overcome that fear fear
13:42factor and make yourself fearless?
13:45Sometimes
13:47the attitude of being fearless comes
13:49from being fearful.
13:52>> Yeah. And
13:55if you if I would have said to you three
13:57years back,
13:58>> can you take on the planet
14:02Rajani would have said I can? But there
14:05would have been a paranoia, a nervous
14:07energy [laughter] even today.
14:09>> But today there is conviction.
14:11>> Yeah.
14:12>> That comes from that comes from
14:14milestone based successes.
14:16>> So that guy is fearless.
14:19>> Doesn't overthink.
14:20>> Doesn't overthink. executes like a
14:24maniac
14:26>> because execution is everything we do in
14:28life.
14:29>> Number four is he's intelligently
14:32handles people.
14:35>> When you grow in your ladder,
14:39>> lots of complex human beings ask you to
14:42do many things. Manage, execute,
14:44program, team, faim, xyz.
14:49Managing people is an art.
14:52Managing people comes from being a
14:54people. People have to like you to build
14:58tolerance for you. So the other guy and
15:00other guy overthinking versus likability
15:03and winning people over is wonder. So
15:06nobody teaches you. Even if you're the
15:08most popular boy in school, you will be
15:10shut down,
15:11>> right? You have to have the ability to
15:15break things and build relationships.
15:21We do that team building always. Now
15:22iceb breaker. Icebreer is every day in
15:24life for a leader who is aspirational
15:28leader.
15:29>> Everything is an icebreaker. Going and
15:30talking to the nariel paniwala is an
15:33icebreaker asking about his health and
15:35you know having a smile
15:37>> to running the boardroom or last point
15:41Raj I think is that guy became becomes
15:43the CXO compared to this guy is
15:48you cannot give up.
15:50And this is overstated
15:53and over abused this sentence.
15:57Life is never going to be a bed of
15:59roses. Life every day there is some
16:01issue and there will be deep issue and
16:03there'll be you'll be shut down. You
16:06cannot afford to give up if you're
16:08Hawkeye focused like I am hawkeye
16:10focused in building the best models and
16:12the best agentic systems for the
16:14enterprises of the world. That's my
16:16purpose.
16:18Like I would say that you we want you to
16:20become one of the best in the world.
16:22That should be your purpose. Your
16:24purpose. The difference between a normal
16:26guy employing and making work as a
16:29purpose is a big difference.
16:31>> And you will see in some some people
16:34purpose is not a word. Purpose means
16:38everything takes a backseat.
16:39>> Yeah.
16:40>> Okay. So you you mentioned five things.
16:42Okay. Let's go one by one on everything.
16:44You give me an example and tell me
16:47based on your experiences if you want to
16:49take names of employees you can if you
16:51don't want to you don't but give me a
16:53and you tell me what when have you
16:55noticed this particular skill and what
16:57example so that I can get more context
16:59on exactly what do you mean by when you
17:01say overthinking
17:03>> like overthink what like
17:06this this sounds so easy that overink I
17:08don't have to overthink that's it
17:09everybody would be thinking that
17:10>> overthinking I'll give you an example
17:12and I'll And let me see if I'll I'll
17:15give you a real I'll give you an example
17:17in the last 10 years example.
17:19>> Okay. Okay.
17:22>> Where do people overthink versus where
17:23do
17:24>> I'll give you I'll give you
17:25[clears throat] very simple examples. I
17:27had two senior tech guys.
17:30>> I had two senior tech guys in the Tata
17:33group while while I was building Tata
17:35Click Luxury and Tata Click. Two senior
17:37tech guys. One of them was a good
17:41product guy. One of them was a tech
17:44product guy. One of them was product
17:45tech guy. So a product
17:52and the other guy was a core tech guy
17:54>> who actually loved aspiration wanted to
17:57build a product.
18:01>> Now
18:03both were similar age. I mean I'm
18:05talking about 10 years back means
18:08>> 10 years back both aspirational very
18:10ambitious
18:14>> one
18:17before taking a decision would take two
18:20to three days
18:22>> the other would take few hours
18:25and sometimes the guy who took few hours
18:28to take a decision I'll give an example
18:29we have to build a large order
18:30management system
18:32>> ship from store banana pin code logic
18:34banana Fastest finger first product
18:36detail page you know 10 10 11 years
18:40building a brandu built marketplace was
18:42a
18:43>> the whole thing was aspirational today
18:45luxury become so big so loved by
18:47everyone today so many luxury platforms
18:49are there in the country that back back
18:51then nothing was there
18:54>> and I banked on these guys in young
18:57product or young engineers bet
19:00one guy
19:02by the time you decided Ed what to do
19:05and how to go about building a product
19:07system ship from store and order
19:10management
19:14by this by this time this guy had built
19:18something showed it and actually
19:21failed in demonstrating 25% and 75% were
19:25successful.
19:27So what happens is these two guys are on
19:29the same plateau. Both are trying to
19:31build a beautiful order management plus
19:33pin code serviceability blah blah blah
19:36e-commerce
19:38may aspirational marketplace is going to
19:40get built.
19:42One guy conceptual level pay he thought
19:45a lot. The other guy did everything
19:49possible. Beg, borrow, jugar, got some
19:52developers time, got a product guys
19:54time, build a P, quickly came and showed
19:57it
19:59and
20:01not 100% perfect, but it got somewhere.
20:05>> This guy by the time he came back was a
20:08ppt.com.
20:11I'm not saying overthinking is bad. I'm
20:14saying in a highpaced velocity the the
20:17industry we operate tech AI.com ecom
20:20it's you got to do things every day.
20:22>> Yeah.
20:23>> Right. Because you're dealing with
20:24millions of people on one side or you're
20:26dealing with big large enterprise
20:28conglomerates on the other side. You
20:31don't have time. You you [clears throat]
20:34actually do something and fail and learn
20:36from that.
20:38This consistency is kept on an attitude
20:41of pioneering.
20:43>> So what happens is one is overthinking
20:45right thing to do.
20:47>> Money is involved. Right thing to do the
20:49other guy is pioneering learning and
20:51building it while you're doing it. Now
20:53that's my observation and I think that's
20:55the right way to do things because you
20:57never get it perfect right in the first
20:59go. This guy probably is wanting to get
21:02the perfection is a rubbish nonsense we
21:05are chasing. It's all execution. We are
21:09have to dependent. You're you're getting
21:11better with every podcast you're doing.
21:13I am getting better. My models are
21:15getting better with everything. August
21:172026 and 20 August 2025 there's a lot
21:20more learning the human mind is having.
21:22>> True. So I would rather experience,
21:26experiment, fail but keep on doing it
21:30rather than conceptualizing,
21:32architecting,
21:33you know, creating the concept and then
21:35taking a milestone. No, there's no
21:37waterfall world today, sequential
21:39waterfall world today. There is
21:41fundamentally a
21:44we have a concept in software
21:46engineering called chaos engineering.
21:49>> Okay, what is that? And chaos
21:50engineering is about figuring out how to
21:54go about it while going about it.
21:57>> Interesting.
21:58>> So technology waterfall everything is
22:01sequential requirements design build
22:05testing publish user group testing by
22:09like a flowchart
22:10>> like the flowchart. It's called a
22:12waterfall. Okay.
22:12>> Today then the world came as agile
22:14everything you have to be quick but
22:16still there is a sequence of that
22:18existing. Today it's chaos engineering
22:21which is the name of the game with
22:23today's India's youngsters and the
22:24global millennials and genz's
22:26>> nice
22:27>> codify things while the madness and the
22:30chaos exist and extract something coming
22:34out. [snorts] So you were telling me the
22:35difference between two people
22:38who will make make it big in the career
22:40faster versus who will not is one guy is
22:46thinking preparing conceptualizing and
22:50then saying yes to do the other is
22:52saying yes and on the way while after he
22:55has said yes he's figuring out how to do
22:57things and he keeps doing it.
22:59>> Yeah because
23:00>> like after saying yes like um I'll do it
23:02this is if you go If that guy is a
23:05bullshitter
23:06goalie there, right, then it's gone.
23:08>> Yeah.
23:08>> Then it'll go. But if that guy genuinely
23:11has the merit and intelligence,
23:13execution, intelligence,
23:14>> and that's where the second point comes
23:16in the execution, right?
23:17>> The bullshitter will fail at the second
23:19point.
23:20>> Bullshitter will be all lip service.
23:22>> How do you catch a bullshitter? Someone
23:24who is just here for corporate
23:26bootlicking only is bullshitting trying
23:29to actually tell you good things. But
23:31Raj, I'm very I'm very well known to say
23:34things brutally on people's face at
23:36every level. You will find out
23:38[laughter] when you make a few calls. So
23:40it's easier answer for this answer is
23:42easy for me because if I don't see
23:45deliverables or products or values
23:47coming out,
23:48whether it's a report, whether it's a
23:50milestone based deliverable and
23:52technology industry is very linear in
23:53that way.
23:54>> You're given a piece of work, you can
23:56measure it.
23:57>> You're not strategy consulting. Strategy
23:58consulting can [laughter] Well,
24:02>> full discussion here,
24:04>> full layer. So, it's very
24:06difficult to identify.
24:08>> You since you said it, I'm 100%
24:10agreeing.
24:11>> Exactly.
24:11>> It's an industry which does not need to
24:13exist today in the AI world. [laughter]
24:16>> See, there are good guys. There are
24:18there are few good guys. I would assume
24:21industry.
24:23>> Gan money is in you know in your palms.
24:26>> Yeah.
24:27>> Let me be honest. money is in your
24:29palms.
24:30>> My agent can do
24:31>> your agent can get you a proper trillion
24:34words index
24:37will give you a better visibility or a
24:39human being's research. It's as simple
24:40as that. I mean there are two ways to do
24:42experience can't be bought very senior
24:44partner with experience. Okay, let's not
24:46digress.
24:47>> Bullshitter
24:51he will win the room over.
24:54He'll win the room over and he will
24:56never ever
24:58deliver on time. [snorts]
25:02Bullshitter's second thing is value of
25:04time. Raj
25:06never ever you will see him that next
25:08five eight meetings may he will either
25:11drop or delay or find excuses to come
25:14late.
25:16Dayto-day observation I might be I might
25:19get trolled but I don't care. Third
25:22bullshitter example is
25:25nab bulshitta's definition of today's
25:27world is
25:30yes with a
25:33logic.
25:35It's not a blind yes man
25:38index justify yes by bullshitting.
25:43You're agreeing to something. No just
25:45agree. Finish the sentence. Move on in
25:48the next thing in the agenda.
25:49Bullshitters definition
25:52and the bullshitters are not the
25:54youngsters. Youngsters are either
25:57>> or and they'll bullsh
26:04I am bullshitting. I am a yes man and
26:06I'm also bootlicking and I am also
26:09justifies my bootlicking by giving you
26:12some random logic only. See
26:14some of us take
26:18>> bar P&L bada verticals lots of verticals
26:20were part of some of us
26:22>> as a techie I hands on del deep with my
26:26youngsters
26:27>> but there are layers in management which
26:30are subject matter expertise are not
26:32needed there's no GM in today's day and
26:34age have you realized
26:36>> you don't hear the word GM in LinkedIn
26:38>> general manager when we were growing up
26:40I mean
26:41>> yeah yeah
26:42>> GM used to be very big GM used to be an
26:44aspirational position for my parents.
26:46>> Absolutely. My parents also.
26:49>> Yeah.
26:50>> I'm not trying to hide my age [laughter]
26:52but
26:55that's why the MBA erosion is happening.
26:59>> If you just observe why is the MBA
27:01erosion happening? MBA erosion is
27:03happening is people are becoming subject
27:05matter expertise. Now in a in a in a
27:08corporate structure whether it's a tech
27:10industry, manufacturing industry, there
27:11are people who are required to be
27:13managers of managers. A manager of
27:15managers is the challenge. You need a
27:17manager
27:18>> because he's grown up.
27:20>> Tech industry means very easy. Engineer,
27:22programmer, architect, program manager.
27:23Then you bifurcate.
27:25>> Somebody takes the role of technology,
27:27somebody research, somebody R&D,
27:28somebody product, somebody sales and
27:30marketing. Right? Simple. This is the
27:33umbrella in the tech industry works. In
27:35the other industries, there are manager
27:36of managers.
27:37>> Manager of managers.
27:40What are they doing?
27:42You're passing on information. There are
27:44systems, hundreds of systems of
27:46reporting. So, I have a big challenge
27:48with the manager of managers in a non-
27:49tech industry. And when I see them, I
27:52just shut down.
27:54>> I will say something. But you can catch
27:56that he's a floater.
27:59There are lots of floaters in many
28:00industries who survive by being a yes
28:03man. And we all know that. M
28:04>> but the question is anybody calling them
28:07out
28:09but you put me in any industry because I
28:12work with the enterprise
28:15you put me in an enterprise and he put
28:17me in a room saying this guy's from
28:19logistics marketing supply chain R&D
28:22manufacturing plant line let's take a
28:25>> and after three two workshops where we
28:28want to deploy a system you said do you
28:31who's rubbish rubbish that's the only
28:34guy that's the only guy who has a
28:35genuine influencer who is adding value
28:38and that comes from this white beard and
28:40wide hair and working with youngsters
28:43because youngsters today don't
28:45and actually the best part about India
28:47and mostly India is they'll say I can't
28:49do it I don't know how to do it I love
28:52that when I hear that that means he's
28:55got scope for to learn
28:59[snorts]
29:00>> the middle management of India should be
29:01killed to be honest everywhere in the
29:04country because it's so much of floaters
29:06and they won't let the youngsters jump
29:09out. So if Shik was
29:11getting into a job today,
29:13>> I would have broken things. Yeah.
29:17Interesting. And then the next point
29:19which you said was about
29:23fearless.
29:25How do you identify between two
29:26employees? Both of them being fearless
29:30>> but one fearlessness becomes
29:32foolishness. Yeah.
29:33>> And the other fearlessness actually ends
29:36up taking organization where the
29:38organization couldn't have been. How do
29:40you identify these two people?
29:41>> I I'll give you my I'll give you a very
29:44interesting example from I was I was I
29:48came in the country as SAP's leadership
29:50to build [clears throat] Jio
29:51>> right
29:53>> and my charter was to build AO and my
29:55charter was to build [snorts] Jio.com's
29:58core architecture.
29:59>> Okay. And I did that your SAP large
30:03giant reliance many relation years
30:06our
30:09technology any application you launch
30:11Raj whether it's a.com whether it's a
30:14public facing application it has to go
30:17through some sort of testing
30:19>> and [clears throat] one of the key
30:20testing is performance
30:22>> and when it comes to India we always
30:24test concurrent user
30:28how Many people are randomly using that
30:31system.
30:32>> Okay,
30:32>> example Flipkart sale,
30:35>> big billion day sale, right? 10 million
30:38people adding to the cart in 1 second.
30:40It's super exciting. Click used to have
30:42these things as well.
30:45>> Lots of other organizations do it. So
30:46performance is a very important metric.
30:49>> Okay,
30:49>> whether the system is breaking or not. M
30:52>> at I remember today though of course
30:54it's
30:5660 70 80 600 million users of those
30:59platforms 10 years 11 years back we used
31:02to target 50 million 60 million 80 100
31:04million concurrent users
31:06>> used to break
31:07>> used to break [snorts] obviously India
31:10has not seen that sort of a scale but
31:12because we come from a performance-based
31:14background to break regularly reviews
31:17break regularly reviews but being at it
31:20when it broke
31:21A lot of insights come out
31:23>> why it broke.
31:25>> What failed?
31:26>> What failed? I never used to shy away. I
31:30am being fearless of delivering it
31:32because it is a Hawkeye purpose you know
31:35left the family and everything and here
31:37in the country after so many years to
31:38build this thing with a big large team
31:41and a fantastic team but used to break
31:44but when it broke it used to give us
31:47insights why it broke root cause
31:49analysis we call it RCA in our industry
31:52I'm sure you do that RCA
31:57resilient it became a little bit more
31:59resilient
32:00Now I call it fearlessness. I could have
32:03cocooned
32:05shut up shop taken the flight back home
32:07and gone.
32:08>> A lot of people do that when you have
32:10this amount of pressure and we didn't
32:12know this will become this big that
32:14time. So we were just building it don't
32:16even know that the whole country will
32:17start using it. M same for click when we
32:21did the first 10 10 day
32:24Raj I have built e-commerce companies
32:26and platforms in UK and US one country's
32:29population is 35 million 35
32:32350 crores
32:34>> okay no 35 35 crores right US is 35
32:37crores
32:38>> US no 300 crores huh 350 crores
32:41>> and um
32:43>> no
32:43>> no we sorry
32:44>> we are 150 crores
32:46>> we are 140 crores US is 34 cr 30
32:48>> 35 cr so correct yes 35 crores
32:51>> 300 million
32:52>> England is far lesser
32:54>> UK when we built these e-commerce.coms
32:57for these sort of audiences big day
32:59means Hanukkah
33:01Christmas New Year's and Boxing Day and
33:04all of this the biggest resil resilience
33:08and concurrent user base is in China
33:10Alibaba has taught us now 100 million
33:13concurrent users trying at tokart in
33:15>> you [snorts] know the 1212 so we
33:17launched that 1010
33:20all of us were scared firstly of course
33:23it's a
33:24>> it's a one of India's most loved 150y
33:27old group
33:30>> it can break it is technology
33:33but the fearlessness came from a group
33:36of leaders we have to do it we have to
33:39prove we can do it but if we don't do it
33:42someone else will do it and we will be
33:44thinking that I'm look so we kept on
33:46thinking M
33:47>> so first time we did it it's nvi baraj a
33:52lot of advertising marketing is gone
33:54times of India and all sorts performance
33:56marketing is ongoing all of us are
33:58huddled every day in the office 24/7 we
34:01are going home
34:02>> but the fear is there
34:04>> so what if it breaks
34:06>> then we started saying if it breaks we
34:08are the team who has built it we know
34:10where it'll break we will pick it up
34:14and uh that exactly what happen. So
34:16that's the difference between two people
34:19fearful
34:21taking the plunge. We could have said
34:23let's not do 10 10 big billion day
34:25equivalent why take on the large Amazons
34:27and flip cards of the world and but we
34:29made sure we did and we had successful
34:32big day sales or big day sales make the
34:35ring fence of failure is very simple
34:37>> art gets choked checkout gets choked
34:40>> over we are overwhelmed with the traffic
34:42message comes which we have seen
34:44everywhere the first big billion day
34:46failover in flip card and the second day
34:49roaring second day a roaring success
34:50People
34:52like us wore our arms on our sleeves and
34:56said yeah fail these are big brand
34:59India's lovable brand in the group some
35:02of us should resign so I used to always
35:05keep that in mind but that is where I
35:08say I should not be fearless fearful key
35:12fail it might affect
35:16it will affect me only it will affect
35:18some of our technology team members only
35:20and and we're okay with that. So you
35:22build a team like that.
35:23>> So that is fearlessness that you are
35:25okay that if it fails
35:27>> I'll I'll be accountable.
35:30[clears throat and snorts]
35:30>> Accountability fearless or accountable.
35:34We can't do that. I have to be we have a
35:37beautiful thing in our technology
35:39concept called rei
35:41>> rai.
35:42>> What do you mean
35:44>> in this in this engagement? Who's
35:47responsible for the success? who is
35:50accountable for the success who is
35:52consulted who's informed.
35:55So if you put and as a as a elder
35:58brother I'm telling you implement a rei
36:00in programs you do in your work
36:03>> this project may responsible
36:07>> responsibility is obviously the one of
36:09the top guys
36:10>> who accountable who's driving this piece
36:12you're making him accountable to deliver
36:14this who's consulted you might be
36:16required to be consulted or you might be
36:17required to be informed
36:19>> but there has to be some sort of a
36:20parallel department who's required to be
36:22consi works wonders if you Clarity in
36:25racing responsible, accountable,
36:28consulted, informed works wonders.
36:31>> Nice.
36:31>> Is may what happens is you get a
36:33framework.
36:35>> Interesting framework.
36:37>> But the other point was the next point
36:39was handling people. You said
36:42>> one guy who has to actually become a CEO
36:45needs to
36:46>> become really good at handling people.
36:49What's a framework to teach or what's
36:53the framework you can teach me and my
36:56audience which will help us deal people
36:58in a better way. Your say do ratio has
37:00to be good. What is that? What you say
37:04and commit and what you do and deliver.
37:09>> I tell you Raj that this team say to
37:13ratio is better. This team is also a
37:15good team, good guys, honest guys.
37:18There's another team and I always it's
37:20easier for me to define in teams
37:22>> because industry and our industry works
37:24in squads
37:25>> right
37:27>> this team say ratio is n out of 10 times
37:31what they say
37:32>> and what they do they deliver
37:37ratio is okay what they say they do
37:40deliver but five out of 10 times and the
37:42other team is notorious
37:4610 on 10 on su
37:48There's a balance how to handle that
37:50team and there is another team beautiful
37:53muska and smile and body language but
37:56the sadu ratio is 2 out of 10 [snorts]
37:59deliver
38:01that's a good framework to have
38:03>> you can measure it
38:05>> su ratio of every employee of every team
38:08makes
38:08>> or a squad
38:10>> you are as good as your squad or
38:12employee within so you can actually
38:15deploy this framework saying that this
38:16This is the squad. Example, marketing
38:18>> or partnerships is a squad, right?
38:20>> These are things you have said.
38:21>> These are things you have said.
38:22>> These are things you have done.
38:23>> And hold them to a date.
38:26>> Half of the reviews cannot go without a
38:28date.
38:30Sadu ratio cannot happen without a date
38:33and a time.
38:35>> Tuesday afternoon means Tuesday
38:36afternoon.
38:37>> True.
38:38>> I realized it very simply Raj because
38:40you know when I I've run so many
38:41e-commerce businesses, build e-commerce
38:43engines. E-commerce is 24/7. You want to
38:46ship out a product or a code, it has to
38:49be on a very particular set of time.
38:513:00 a.m. when the traffic is not buying
38:55that much is a good time. Window is 20
38:58minutes.
39:00Seriously, [snorts]
39:01all e-commerce shift out code shifts out
39:03happens during that 3 2 4:30 a.m.
39:06window. Is sometime India will sleep.
39:08India is nocturnal.
39:11>> Believe me, you miss that window. I
39:13can't ship that out
39:15and wait again 24 hours. So the habit in
39:19the technology industry is say suppose a
39:21plant line right or say suppose a
39:23defense or say suppose aviation systems
39:26you have so much so little window that's
39:28why they call it downtime
39:31>> dime down window and you have to be so
39:33perfect you don't have roll back roll
39:36back you have to roll back to the same
39:38setting so we live hence su ratio came
39:42into our life
39:45we'll test it out 2500 times
39:48But when we deploy it, it'll be on time,
39:51on point.
39:52>> Nice. I like this. I like racy. I like
39:54sad duration. [laughter]
39:56I'm liking I'm liking this. I didn't
39:58think that we're going to make podcast
40:00around these things, but [laughter] I
40:01like I like this.
40:02>> This is this is the way in tech industry
40:04works actually.
40:05>> Nice. This this is really good. Does the
40:08do you see in your industry or anywhere
40:10in your experience of when you're
40:12leading teams from the top does the
40:14hardest working employee usually rise to
40:18the top or no?
40:19>> No.
40:21>> Why?
40:22>> Hard work plus intelligence is very
40:24important. Raj
40:26>> only someone's like grinding
40:28>> griding guiding is default Raj in
40:30today's day and age. So
40:31>> you need hard work is default. Let me
40:33give you a grading example. Simple
40:36example.
40:38Can you tell me that Ravindra Jadea take
40:40a cricket example if that's okay?
40:42>> Ravindra Jadeja Kulip Pyadav and Manav
40:45Sutar
40:48do they do any one of them bowl less in
40:51the nets?
40:53>> I don't think so. Right. Three of them
40:55are very different spinners. One is a
40:57finger spinner, one is a wrist spinner
41:00and the other one is a left arm wrist
41:02spinner.
41:04>> Right. Yeah, left hand spinners and
41:06kuliva left hand China.
41:10They do 8 hours of bowling in the nets
41:14but in the match on spot intelligence
41:17helps.
41:18Thinking on your feet is as important.
41:20So that whole body right works like a
41:22institutional memory. Take a take a CTO
41:25life or take a senior architect
41:29technology architect.
41:31go you have to build systems have to
41:33architect things you have to place the
41:35systems here here you have to create
41:38integration blah blah blah blah blah
41:41he's [snorts] working 8 hours and
41:42there's another architect who's also
41:44doing
41:46>> but the thing is he's cracked something
41:50which the other architect ignored he's
41:53cracked a pioneering invention as part
41:56of this new architecture
41:58system.
42:01That guy is 8 hours 8 hours plus that
42:04piece of and it doesn't matter that you
42:08are super intelligent or not. You have
42:10to have execution intelligence.
42:13But why do let's say coders or technical
42:16people who are technically very good.
42:18They're hardworking also. They're
42:19intelligent and they're able to
42:21>> yet they don't become leaders. Why it's
42:23so difficult for technical people to
42:24become leaders?
42:26I think the world is becoming subject
42:29matter expert oriented. I love your
42:31emergent story. You know, you didn't
42:34even need a 200 people team. They came
42:37out of a very large organization. But
42:39the way they attacked the problem is
42:41subject matter expertise.
42:43Raj, I I can't be building AI models and
42:46agentic systems, but I'm only doing for
42:48e-commerce industry, retail, hotel. That
42:50is my that is shoveik's core.
42:52>> Shik can't solve the financial services
42:54modeling and agentic problems. banks
42:56problem solve. I have not equipped
42:59myself for that. So knowing where your
43:01subject matter expertise lies allows you
43:04to rise high.
43:06>> If you narrow down your expertise
43:10then you'll rise high. You can't be a
43:12Instagram influencer and a Tik Tok
43:14influencer. Then your long format
43:16podcast will take a backseat because it
43:18takes research, questioning, brilliant
43:20questions, listening, hearing various
43:24types of people's energies,
43:26narrow it down, then you grow faster.
43:30The world of today is like that. If you
43:32are a painter today or if you are a work
43:35for BJO pens and Asian paints, today the
43:37fabric of paint is changing thanks to
43:39AI. Newer colors are coming on different
43:42form factors. But if you are a paint
43:46researcher, you'll always grow
43:47differently than your generic marketing
43:50of paint industry. So,
43:55but then someone who is a technically
43:57strong person is subject matter
43:59expertise expert usually don't they find
44:02more difficult to grow and become
44:04leader.
44:04>> You got to invest on yourself. The guy
44:07who invests on himself
44:10always will be a little ahead.
44:11>> Someone who stays just
44:13>> see if I'll give you an example be a
44:15technical person.
44:15>> I only build agents and then an agent is
44:17building an agent. That's all. No.
44:20Right. I will move into modeling of
44:23agent
44:25working on a BCI system a brain
44:28computing interface system agents model.
44:31The same guy is also doing that. M
44:33>> what he's doing is he's continuously
44:35enhancing his knowledge base
44:40intelligence decent IQ but his knowledge
44:42base is increasing
44:44>> got it interesting
44:46>> because this is all observation at
44:48workplaces across the world I I am I am
44:51sharing with you
44:53>> what is one thing you have observed
44:55which is
44:57which is a lie like what is the biggest
45:00lie employees are told about promotion.
45:06>> A lot of lies are told, Raj. Not one.
45:09[laughter]
45:11Lot of lies are being told. Uh
45:13>> about how promotions happen.
45:15>> It's old school thinking. One thing I
45:18think which is which is very common is
45:21you are important to us. [snorts]
45:23The guy who's telling is get out of the
45:25room 20 20 minutes.
45:29You're important to us.
45:32Everybody's important to us.
45:34[clears throat]
45:39Why are you lying to him that you're
45:40important to us if you have got a D and
45:43he's on a PIP?
45:46You're giving a PIP,
45:48performance improvement plan, which is
45:50one step away from terminating his
45:52employment. And you're saying you're
45:53important to us. Why? Why this sugar
45:57coating? Tell your He'll actually
46:00feel real that I actually didn't perform
46:03till you are floating.
46:05HR may honesty is lacking everywhere.
46:08Firstly I don't like this whole thing
46:11called HR in conglomerates. What if he
46:14she is not performing? Tell her now tell
46:17him now [snorts]
46:19sugar coat
46:23nice English and good beautiful laying
46:26they say you're you're bad. There's
46:29nothing wrong. I was told I was bad in
46:31maths by my teacher when I was growing
46:33up.
46:34>> What's wrong in telling you you were
46:35bad, you didn't perform?
46:37Oh, you're important to us after seeing
46:39all of this. Your performance has to
46:41improve. No, no, last 6 months it has
46:43not improved.
46:45That's the first lie people say.
46:47Secondly, incredibly but [laughter]
46:53I'll come to this. Okay. Huh? [laughter]
46:55Go ahead. You saying second? Second is
47:01second is we think you will grow in the
47:04organization then give him a 25% hike
47:08why you giving 5% hike what is it
47:11rubbish managers and HR I think you will
47:15grow
47:17grow that means he's going to you're
47:20talking about his potential ladder and
47:22promotion then give him a 25% hike if
47:24you have the authority or come in the
47:26room with the authority.
47:30Second lie.
47:32>> Third lie. Nobody thinks that you are
47:34going to grow if they're not giving you
47:35actual and you will consistently see
47:37this. Third lie,
47:41you ask saying, making me say things
47:43man. Third lie, I'll be very honest with
47:46you. I don't care. Third lie is
47:51the organization doesn't have money.
47:54The organization is about to go in an
47:57unstable mode.
47:59>> We are all fine. Don't worry. You'll be
48:02well looked after. Poll now. The
48:04organization might tank. Funding has not
48:06come through.
48:09Which is the biggest worry I see in the
48:11startup ecosystem today.
48:14It's better to tell him
48:17no. We will not be able to give you a
48:19salary. Are you okay? I have gone
48:22through that life. A lot of us have gone
48:24through that life. If you tell me now
48:25I'll be mentally prepared. I have got
48:27some cash savings. I like this business.
48:30I like this conviction.
48:33Don't say
48:35company is okay when you don't have the
48:37payroll to pay for the next two months.
48:39There's a startup ecosystem live and I'm
48:42sure you've been yeah
48:44>> this you've heard all of this. I think
48:47lying is
48:49natural to people very natural
48:53don't do it at workplace you can spoil
48:55people's careers
48:56>> so tell me what are the
49:02what are the first telltale signs
49:05>> in an [clears throat] employee which
49:07tells you that this is a CXO material
49:11>> you must be dealing with so many teams
49:13>> you must be identifying that this guy
49:15can be a potential future leader.
49:18>> Yeah.
49:19>> First observation is
49:23how he delivers and accumulates a team
49:27where there are people not even
49:29responsible to be part of his team.
49:33Give you an example. Give you my
49:35organization.
49:35>> Say that again. A guy part of a team
49:41suddenly takes ownership and drives a
49:43deliverable or a project or a program or
49:46a product
49:48starts crossfunctional
49:51work starts engaging others teams and
49:54for some reason they start believing in
49:58this guy can deliver with the team he
50:00had and the teams he's bringing.
50:03>> I'll give you an example simple example.
50:06I am currently working with a large
50:10manufacturing global giant based out of
50:13Europe and US
50:15>> actually valve manufacturing car parts
50:19all sorts of these are pure play the the
50:21manufacturing part company
50:26I saw him a few years back he was a good
50:29team leader
50:32today he's in four years three years
50:34time he's reached
50:35CEO minus one
50:39working with the United States
50:41multi-state teams.
50:44So I sat down with him for a
50:46coffee and a dinner. I said what what
50:51happened? Everybody is like going to you
50:53have become the go-to person.
50:55>> Goto person framework those who know it
50:58and those who don't know it they
51:00organically become. [snorts] He said I
51:02started figuring out that if I have to
51:04deliver things, I cannot just do it
51:06within my tech ecosystem. I have to
51:08involve marketing and sales. I have to
51:10involve finance because the funding
51:12comes from my CFO and the team.
51:15Suddenly I have the core squad of
51:18delivering something for my business
51:20which is in the digital space, in the
51:23social media space, in the platform
51:25space
51:26>> but I can't do it because GTM marketing
51:29and sales
51:31My CFO will only listen to my technology
51:33officer if I bring the finance team,
51:36finance managers, finance accounts
51:39executives. Then he created a
51:41cross-pollination team, [clears throat]
51:43crossf functional cross-pollinated team.
51:46>> His squad is still that seven, eight
51:47people squad who was delivering.
51:49Suddenly the squad is a 12 people squad
51:52fronting in front of the business
51:54leaders and the CEOs saying this is how
51:56we are delivering it. So what he's done
51:58he's mapped the marketing and the sales
52:01influencer B he became an internal
52:03influencer and said that either way this
52:06has to be sold by you
52:08>> either way the capex opex has to be
52:10funded and then audit has to be done by
52:12the finance team
52:13>> the partnership and client services team
52:15so if I'm building this product who
52:17gives me the market intelligence
52:19>> rather than this is a specific example
52:22but the lesson what I learned and that's
52:24what I also try to do is
52:26>> bring the non- tech ecosystem in your
52:28organization. If you genuinely want to
52:30deliver something across,
52:33so what happens is
52:36when your lading happens,
52:39we want to promote it. It's a
52:40no-brainer. Why are you even asking?
52:42>> Yeah.
52:43>> Then they say, you sure he's going to be
52:46nominated for the chief digital
52:48officer's role?
52:50Do we have anyone else apart from him?
52:54Not his own team. not his own CTO or
52:55CPO. This is coming from the CMO and the
52:59chief of chief of chief revenue officer,
53:02the sales of sales directors, the CFO.
53:04So
53:06X is phenomenal there. There's no other
53:09there's no other internal individual and
53:11we don't want to have
53:12>> everyone together.
53:13>> Huh? It was not his role profile.
53:17>> No, it was not in his KPI. It was not
53:19his uh
53:20>> and this is a common pattern.
53:23A marketing guy brings tech and product
53:26and sales and partnership and finance
53:28into him that marketing campaign
53:30multiple times is successful.
53:33So when he's been promoted to become the
53:36chief marketing officer the lading may
53:39it's a no-brainer then
53:41>> now can you can you orchestrate this? No
53:44you can't. You still have to be good at
53:47what you do. You still have to have the
53:49belief of your team that you can lead
53:51and fail. So all the failing success I'm
53:54talking about a product scenario it is
53:56applicable across industries but
53:58ultimately the CXO of a business that
54:01his OKR is the CEO's OKR
54:04>> the CTO's OKR the CMO's OKR the CPO's
54:07OKR or the chief revenue officer's OKR
54:09or the CFO's OKR is the CEO's OKR CEO's
54:12KPI is I'm inheriting
54:14>> so I don't have a technology OKR or a
54:17KPI I have the business OKR
54:19>> so if
54:20>> take a step back what I just said if I
54:22as a business youngster
54:25starts believing that the business value
54:27comes from bringing all of us together
54:29and then delivering my piece of work
54:32then what happens is you are you are
54:34invested in the business's aspirations
54:37then the board and the leadership says
54:39that you know let's groom this guy.
54:41>> Yeah. Yeah. True. And what is this is a
54:46very good actually a sign and I can
54:48think of two two three people in my
54:50organization all of a sudden now now
54:51that they've actually said that cuz
54:57the first thought when you see someone
55:00going from X and out of you know going
55:03to Y from then Z and then bringing all
55:06of them together just to deliver because
55:08the delivery needs to happen and in the
55:10best way possible
55:11>> correct
55:12>> and they are able to make that possible.
55:14without
55:16without me knowing about it. Right?
55:19>> The first thought which comes in my
55:21head, let's groom this person.
55:22>> Yes,
55:22>> let's groom her. Let's groom this guy
55:25and you know make the make both of them
55:27probably much better and see where it
55:30goes.
55:30>> Rajal, you'll grow a lot more and
55:32figuring out will also do wonders. You
55:34will have CXOs.
55:38>> The word officer in a C title is
55:41extremely important.
55:43What do you mean by that? Why is a chief
55:46technology officer, chief marketing
55:47officer, chief digital officer, chief
55:50growth officer, chief revenue officer?
55:52What does the officer role act word
55:54mean? If you just decode the word,
55:57>> the word officer means you're bringing
55:59multiple people to execute a management
56:02principle for that business. Or else you
56:05can be chief of growth,
56:08chief of revenue, chief of technology.
56:13They don't exist, right? What exists is
56:15chief technology officer, chief
56:17executive officer, you're a professional
56:19executive who has been given the duty to
56:22run a P&L and build the business and
56:24grow it X percentile. So a CMO, a
56:28revenue officer, a product officer, a
56:30marketing officer, a chief sales
56:31officer, a chief financial officer, the
56:34word officer bring means you bring
56:36together to deliver your piece.
56:39>> That's [clears throat] why it's a
56:40seuite. [snorts] My definition
56:42>> interesting
56:43>> because if the word officer is not there
56:46then you're just
56:48chief of X
56:51the word officer means you have the
56:54responsibility and accountability of the
56:56business
56:58interest
56:58>> these five six do and what is a sign
57:01which instantly tells you that this
57:04person will never become a CEO or a CTO
57:08or a CMO or any officer.
57:11one we spoke about earlier
57:15blatantly
57:18floating with lies and non-deliverables
57:25>> basics give him chance after chance
57:28>> people do turn around second is he's not
57:32a good stakeholder manager
57:34stakeholder means if finance is having
57:37some problem and if I can go and sit in
57:39free finance workshops which has got
57:41nothing to do with me but I can give an
57:44way to solve a problem for him or hear
57:46him out because he was there supporting
57:49me last year when I was having budget
57:52issues.
57:54>> You're there for that team.
57:57Third thing is
58:00these are behavioral
58:03telemetry and signals.
58:05Third thing is
58:08he genuinely is an autocratic decision
58:10maker. Very autocratic decision maker.
58:14He's not involving people. He's taking
58:16decisions based on the chair he sits.
58:18>> So it's a bad bad person to have not a
58:22CXO sustainable CXO.
58:25You cannot be autocratic in a business.
58:27>> A business has a charter. Whether I'm
58:30building a phenomenal coffee um mug or
58:35uh building a excellent
58:37um cycle or building a great AI model,
58:42great AI company, how can I take
58:44autocratic decisions without involving
58:47no business is completely vertical by
58:50itself. Can you can you drive a pro
58:52technology without a marketing and
58:54sales?
58:55>> You can't. Can you drive a technology
58:57business without financial finance and
58:59accounts? No. Can you drive a technology
59:01business without a growth and
59:03partnership? No. Then how can I take a
59:07decision? I can take a decision on the
59:09tech stack I am choosing or the
59:10architecture of a tech stack I'm
59:12choosing. But if I'm not able to
59:14articulate it well, how am I going to
59:16basically sell it to my own marketing
59:18and sales? I can take a decision
59:20pricing.
59:22technology officer can take a decision
59:24but you should not right so these are
59:28the signals when that person is starting
59:30to show up now
59:32he can be brute forced by partiality and
59:35bias to become a CXO but will not
59:38sustain he'll make such a blunder and he
59:41can risk the business brand and the
59:43brand erosion can happen so you have to
59:45be very responsible as CXO in a large
59:48organization
59:50some of
59:52take it with a lot of seriousness and
59:54honor sometimes.
59:55>> Yeah,
59:56>> it has to be.
59:57>> It has to be right. It's so many people,
59:58so many millions and millions of dollars
1:00:02involved and so many people's careers
1:00:04involved so much of the market if you're
1:00:06running a public company. So then to a
1:00:08different sphere altogether. Yeah.
1:00:09>> So that time you
1:00:10>> legal also you have to
1:00:12>> legal legal compliance
1:00:13>> compliance
1:00:14>> regulation and then you become a little
1:00:16bit more it should not stop speed
1:00:19>> but you just have to be cautious and you
1:00:22still when you propose a decision it
1:00:24should be kind of done.
1:00:27>> You kind of as as I always say to my
1:00:30youngsters a board meeting is never a
1:00:33board meeting. A board meeting happens
1:00:34before a board meeting. how you manage
1:00:36the board and then you take and drive
1:00:38that board meeting.
1:00:40>> Interesting. So those are the signals if
1:00:42that human being doesn't have
1:00:44>> he'll not be firstly
1:00:46>> uh and genuinely Raj good businesses
1:00:48have good people at at the leadership
1:00:50with clean honest clarity of thought
1:00:54and uh the other part is fraud
1:00:58[snorts] sometimes you can figure out a
1:01:01complete fraud
1:01:06can't deal with him for long and then
1:01:08people will figure out a way corner him
1:01:10and then he can go
1:01:12>> because that is toxicity of the culture
1:01:14which you have built.
1:01:16>> Business is a lot to do with culture.
1:01:18>> True. True. You know one of the good
1:01:20principles I heard
1:01:22>> was from Amazon.
1:01:24>> So Jeff Bezos made this rule.
1:01:25>> Yeah.
1:01:26>> That in every meeting they'll have one
1:01:28empty chair.
1:01:29>> Correct.
1:01:29>> And that one empty chair will be they'll
1:01:31assume that the customer is sitting in
1:01:32the room.
1:01:33>> Correct. So every decision needs to be
1:01:36made based on that the customer is
1:01:39involved
1:01:40>> and you need to put his or her
1:01:42perspective on the table as well
1:01:44>> and in the entire meeting you're not
1:01:45going to have a conversation which you
1:01:47can't have in front of a customer.
1:01:48>> That's correct.
1:01:49>> So that keeps you accountable to another
1:01:52level and then what it also does is I
1:01:56did it in one of my companies.
1:01:59It gives leverage to a lot of people who
1:02:01otherwise can't speak in front of
1:02:03powerful people
1:02:05>> to just point out you know what but
1:02:07customer will think like that maybe they
1:02:08are thinking like that
1:02:10>> but c they can actually point out the
1:02:12of a boss or like a powerful
1:02:14person by just taking customer's name
1:02:16>> I loved that rule and Jeff Bezos
1:02:19>> yeah like you know
1:02:20>> he built this
1:02:22>> you know you know what he doesn't Amazon
1:02:24doesn't have an NPS and a seat
1:02:26[clears throat]
1:02:26>> oh why
1:02:28>> you know What they have, this is my
1:02:30e-commerce man talking.
1:02:32>> Net promoter score and customer
1:02:33satisfaction. That's
1:02:34>> net promoter score and customer
1:02:35satisfaction index. They don't have they
1:02:37have a what what do you call is a
1:02:39perfect order which is actually a
1:02:40reflection of what you just said. What
1:02:42is a perfect order? A man or a woman or
1:02:45whoever goes to the Amazon app or
1:02:48the.com
1:02:50>> goes to the product detail page after
1:02:52the search goes to checkout.
1:02:54Frictionless checkout. No network
1:02:57issues.
1:02:59The order ID gets flashed.
1:03:02The order goes to the seller. The seller
1:03:06platform, the seller central gets it
1:03:08picked up by the brand and its logistics
1:03:12partner. It goes all the way to the
1:03:15shipment company. The shipment company
1:03:17all the way goes to the customer. The
1:03:21customer is delivered. Customer opens up
1:03:24the product. The product gets a review
1:03:26on product detail page and then the loop
1:03:30closes. The customer never spoke to
1:03:33Amazon. Amazon never spoke to customer.
1:03:35That's what they call is a perfect
1:03:37order. So they follow a perfect order as
1:03:40a metric. More number of perfect orders.
1:03:45Customer service call. Nobody's
1:03:48complaining about delivery and damage.
1:03:50That's what that's exactly what Bezos
1:03:53does in the room in in the boardroom
1:03:55>> and that's the same thing he has done it
1:03:57in the metric which he follows
1:04:00>> and the same thing for product managers
1:04:02saying write the product note
1:04:05>> as a press release as if the world will
1:04:08>> read that's the great story right the
1:04:10world will read as a product press
1:04:12release so that you have clarity what
1:04:14the end product will look like and put
1:04:17it on a word document no pd.com and
1:04:19everybody reads it together. This is the
1:04:21product we are going to build whatever
1:04:22it is.
1:04:23>> Mhm. True.
1:04:24>> Some amazing principles by that.
1:04:26>> That writing principle is the best
1:04:28>> is unbelievable.
1:04:28>> It it's it's best. It's by far the best
1:04:32thing which can happen to any
1:04:34management.
1:04:34>> Yeah. I we all do these board level
1:04:38presentations. I as a principal have
1:04:40realized because I I look at code
1:04:44>> the word document the written word by a
1:04:46human being or then polished by claude
1:04:50>> GBD
1:04:50>> or GPD doesn't matter the written word
1:04:53on a word document becomes the Bible
1:04:55because
1:04:57>> your recall of a word on a word document
1:05:01while background huristic principle wise
1:05:03is far better than looking at a swanky
1:05:06PPT
1:05:07uxuristic princip principles on a word
1:05:10on a white background black ink written
1:05:13typed word people remember more
1:05:16>> I mean that's a phenomenal principle
1:05:19>> love it
1:05:21you know when you I I mentioned
1:05:24something here that usually the powerful
1:05:26boss or the person is is a problem right
1:05:29>> if you are an employee if you're a young
1:05:30person in the company how do you
1:05:32disagree with a powerful boss or a or
1:05:36somebody who who's at a leadership
1:05:37position How do you disagree with a with
1:05:40somebody with a leadership position?
1:05:42>> Yeah. Without destroying your career.
1:05:44[laughter]
1:05:44>> Yeah.
1:05:46>> I think
1:05:47>> the fear of disagreeing is I might end
1:05:49up losing my career.
1:05:51>> You're right.
1:05:52>> That's a fear of an employee.
1:05:53>> It's uh
1:05:55it's not an easy road.
1:05:58If you are a vocal vocalizing
1:06:01verbalizing youngster and who is
1:06:03opinionated with
1:06:06>> Dan may he's got a lot of material
1:06:09>> in his in his being right
1:06:11>> I think the best way to do it is which I
1:06:13used to do where I always was heard is
1:06:20leaders like being called by first name
1:06:24in some organizations.
1:06:26>> Okay. I would rather look at the leader
1:06:29and analyze his
1:06:32type before opening my mouth in a forum.
1:06:35I will spend some time in researching my
1:06:37leader. He's he's become a leader
1:06:40something. Dukan may he has got
1:06:41something right.
1:06:43>> I would the decibel has to be a little
1:06:46low. Raj
1:06:48>> the voice decibel has to be low. In my
1:06:51mind, I will compute sentences which
1:06:54will bring the attention but my decibel
1:06:57has to be respectful and low. So you can
1:07:00start by saying um
1:07:02X or shove
1:07:05I like what you're saying but I have a
1:07:07very different point of view. It 100%
1:07:10doesn't agree to what your point of view
1:07:13is. But allow me to allow me to say it
1:07:16so that you have you have a couple of
1:07:18minutes to hear me out. This saying or
1:07:22saying sir I don't think this will work.
1:07:25Two different same thing
1:07:27>> in a team in a room of five or 10 people
1:07:29too different. Or the third one could be
1:07:31uh sir I don't agree at all.
1:07:35Wrong sentence.
1:07:37Give the leader the respect because he's
1:07:39also built tolerance for hear different
1:07:41opinions all his career. I would say
1:07:44this sir or first name
1:07:48like your point of view but there is a
1:07:50different point of view I have. I'm
1:07:52partially agreeing or I'm actually
1:07:54disagreeing to this but if you allow me
1:07:56to then I can voice myself out being the
1:07:59youngest in the room guys. Is that okay?
1:08:02There's a way to deal with leaders and
1:08:05leaders obviously they are subject
1:08:07matter experts so there is a self-ride I
1:08:09have confidence or knowledge comes with
1:08:11it instantly the leader will know any
1:08:15type of human being you are you'll say
1:08:17hold on let him finish his thought I'll
1:08:19hear you out then I'll come to you nine
1:08:21out of 10 times he'll hear you out
1:08:22>> now whether he actions it or not doesn't
1:08:25matter you actually said that that kid
1:08:27actually had a point he might not have
1:08:30the
1:08:31>> if I say I don't agree
1:08:34sir I don't agree with you
1:08:36how will he feel that's actually
1:08:38borderline disrespect
1:08:41we don't need to disrespect the leader
1:08:43in front of everyone
1:08:44>> but you give him the respect but
1:08:46gracefully say this is how dialogue
1:08:48across global playbook happens
1:08:51>> you look at Dr. J Shankr
1:08:54gracefully with dignity hammers the
1:08:58out of a lot of people who sits in
1:09:01European Union UN XYZ and he'll say to
1:09:05people Europe's problems are all
1:09:08Europe's problems and never everyone
1:09:10else's problems and everyone else's
1:09:11problem is not Europe's problem
1:09:14the tonality the decibel the body
1:09:18posture the demeanor
1:09:21what did he just Hey,
1:09:23so there is merit in learning from these
1:09:25leaders.
1:09:26>> How you how you vocalize and verbalize
1:09:29and these are two words which youngsters
1:09:30should focus on. How you vocalize. It's
1:09:34a it's such a good framework to observe
1:09:37that.
1:09:39look at
1:09:41leaders of
1:09:43an upcoming country against powerful
1:09:47countries because then you'll see a lot
1:09:49of things happening because India is not
1:09:52at a position where we can directly
1:09:54compete with the most powerful countries
1:09:55in the world.
1:09:56>> Correct?
1:09:56>> But we want to actually show our power
1:09:58as well by disagreeing because we have a
1:10:01point of view which is different than
1:10:02others. So we will be very diplomatic
1:10:04and nice in disagreeing. So just the way
1:10:07India's just the way India's
1:10:09vocalization and verbalization is
1:10:11happening at all levels
1:10:14>> we're not in any conflict fingers
1:10:15crossed
1:10:16>> and we can't afford to. So that's why we
1:10:18have to be little diplomatic all around
1:10:20the world
1:10:20>> and we're still having our point of view
1:10:23and we are still growing.
1:10:24>> It's a good way to learn like what they
1:10:25did
1:10:26>> frame like you know break it down into a
1:10:28framework and use that as a framework in
1:10:30front of your boss.
1:10:31>> Correct. Correct. Correct. It's a great
1:10:33framework because you know these guys
1:10:34have been professionally taught to speak
1:10:37>> and deal with every word the power of a
1:10:40word actually is becoming more and more
1:10:42important to anybody. [clears throat]
1:10:44>> We used to think that the words are just
1:10:46to be spoken.
1:10:47>> Yeah. Tell me the the world example gets
1:10:50me to another question. I'm going to
1:10:52take not countries but people again.
1:10:55Okay. So let's say what to do if you
1:10:58become more ambitious
1:11:00>> than the boss.
1:11:03That's not a bad thing.
1:11:05>> But how do you deal with that?
1:11:06>> That's not a bad thing. [laughter] But
1:11:08you have to it all depends on the
1:11:09relationship with the boss.
1:11:11>> Actually depends on your relationship
1:11:13with the boss. And sometimes I have
1:11:14faced this
1:11:15>> or let's say when you realize that boss
1:11:17is less capable than you.
1:11:20There are times. There are a lot of
1:11:23[laughter] I could see a smirk and smile
1:11:25on your face. There are no I think you
1:11:29should try three things. Allow and be
1:11:32open with your boss and saying that you
1:11:33know what I'm good at this. I don't
1:11:35think you're good at it. Let me drive
1:11:37it. We'll enjoy the attribution
1:11:38together.
1:11:39>> That's first approach.
1:11:40>> That's first approach. Approach two is
1:11:43you
1:11:45realize that he is be not better than
1:11:48you and you navigate and build tolerance
1:11:51for his insecurity.
1:11:54Then if you have enough time most of the
1:11:57time he starts building confidence
1:11:59that's he's not backstabbing me
1:12:01>> his insecurity is
1:12:03>> taken care of. Third approach is if this
1:12:05a plan A and B doesn't work either look
1:12:07in a different vertical if you can fit
1:12:09in or move on because th that will curb
1:12:13and that will shutter down your career
1:12:15growth and the opportunity you have
1:12:18>> and this is a very common thing
1:12:19>> all around
1:12:20>> all around
1:12:20>> and when you're working in this such
1:12:22large organization who has the maximum
1:12:24power the CEO the board the chairman or
1:12:27some employee who's been there for like
1:12:2930 years
1:12:30>> I say combination of everything
1:12:32combination of everything if it's a if
1:12:35it's a founder organiz
1:12:36>> not founder le I'm talking
1:12:38>> enterprise level though
1:12:39>> so founder may
1:12:40>> founder led whether you know the
1:12:41founders will have the maximum voice if
1:12:43they have
1:12:44>> which is a problem and a advantage in
1:12:46many situations if it's a enterprise
1:12:49listed company
1:12:50>> where you're responsible for millions of
1:12:52shareholders
1:12:53>> I think the board has a very strong
1:12:56point of view
1:12:57>> board is constituted with independent
1:13:00people who are not part of the
1:13:03day-to-day operations. So a board has
1:13:07company senior leadership board has
1:13:09outside. So that's a board is a very
1:13:12organized neutral board. Still the CEO
1:13:16has a fundamentally the biggest amount
1:13:18of decision. CEO's job is to win the
1:13:20board, win the shareholders, win the
1:13:22employee. CEO's job is a painful job.
1:13:25It's an extremely painful job. And he is
1:13:29the ultimate decision maker. But his
1:13:31CXOs run the company. But in something
1:13:33like Reliance which is a family-led
1:13:35company there the family would have the
1:13:37maximum power.
1:13:38>> Absolutely. I mean the listed companies
1:13:40already have great
1:13:42>> let's take Tata Group also Tata Group
1:13:44has got 30 40 odd listed companies TCS
1:13:47right TCS is one of the India's bright
1:13:48blue-eyed beacons
1:13:50>> TCS has a board
1:13:53>> this is a listed company in BCNC or
1:13:55Infosys right you board professionally
1:13:59the CEO and the CXOs run it the board
1:14:02obviously has got the exact power of
1:14:06funds or budgets for this year or
1:14:08numbers and targets per quarter
1:14:10>> or removing a CEO or retaining a CEO.
1:14:12>> Exactly. Because if it's a professional
1:14:14CEO, you're not a you don't have the
1:14:16maximum shareholding, right? That that
1:14:18becomes interesting when a founder
1:14:21business becomes an IPO. You've seen
1:14:24some of the India IPOs by founder
1:14:26businesses how how the founder CEO took
1:14:29a backseat and allows them to run. Now
1:14:32>> uh sometimes the founder CEO allows the
1:14:34board to take the maximum joint decision
1:14:36making. So frameworks and models exist
1:14:38everywhere
1:14:40>> different especially public
1:14:45that's a very different ballgame startup
1:14:48I think you will find the founder CEOs
1:14:50or the founders will have the maximum
1:14:52amount of decision making
1:14:54>> and you've
1:14:56you were in you know chief positions in
1:14:59two of the largest organizations in
1:15:01India
1:15:02>> right one has been here since ages is
1:15:07Tata has been here like probably the
1:15:09development of the country they've
1:15:10contributed a lot way before
1:15:13>> 152 153 4 years now
1:15:16>> like way before anything existed they've
1:15:18been here since since a very long time
1:15:20right and the other is
1:15:24Reliance right which is comp which is
1:15:26also old organization I didn't comp with
1:15:29Reliance I was the CTO for SAP
1:15:32>> but deployed to Reliance as their
1:15:34counsel
1:15:35>> okay but you were there in organization
1:15:37you would see
1:15:37>> you could see many things
1:15:38>> right you could see very how both of
1:15:39their approaches are different
1:15:42>> one is completely beaten the old one
1:15:45>> like today Reliance is in the areas
1:15:48where they are they're beating Tata's
1:15:50left right center
1:15:52>> unbelievable
1:15:52>> right so they are comparatively new
1:15:56one familyowned still beating a very
1:15:59large organization who's probably who
1:16:01was the foundation of so many industries
1:16:03in the country
1:16:05>> what's the difference between Tatas and
1:16:07Reliance.
1:16:07>> I think and Reliance is growing much
1:16:09faster
1:16:09>> much faster much faster and and and a
1:16:11pride of our nation.
1:16:14>> Um I think
1:16:16if you want to achieve
1:16:19newer heights of pioneering you need
1:16:21speed
1:16:23>> and that is the DNA of the Reliance
1:16:26Industries and the family.
1:16:28>> This is also a family group by the way.
1:16:30Um but that speed
1:16:33of pioneering and nation first is there
1:16:37in both
1:16:38>> but the velocity is also backed by
1:16:44the fearless attitude we have data group
1:16:49is a federated conglomerate federated
1:16:52everybody's got their own board every
1:16:53listing whether it's steel or you know
1:16:56there's about 20 plus
1:16:58federated conglomerate That's not a
1:17:01that's not a federated conglomerate.
1:17:03Reliance is still a core conglomerate.
1:17:07Invoice is still one if it comes out of
1:17:09Reliance Retail,
1:17:11>> whatever the Reliance brand, retail
1:17:12brand is, right?
1:17:14>> So that also gives a major
1:17:18>> [clears throat]
1:17:18>> um speed part where the decision- making
1:17:21is limited within a core group of
1:17:23people. Here the decision making is
1:17:25dependent on every entities. So
1:17:27federated conglomerate and pure play
1:17:30conglomerate one entity when decision
1:17:32making is also slow and fast.
1:17:36Now the beauty will be when Reliance
1:17:39will also have a lot of IPOs like Jio
1:17:41will have its IPO and Jio money and Gio
1:17:44financial services all of these are
1:17:45going to be public companies we will
1:17:47observe and see how the speed is getting
1:17:49affected or not because then it's a
1:17:52>> I have a feeling the speed won't get
1:17:53affected because alliances have a basic
1:17:55culture is very fast and aggressive and
1:17:58breaking the wall pioneer things right
1:18:01that's a amazing
1:18:03can you imagine Reliance
1:18:06telecom carlo
1:18:09failed and the conviction
1:18:13Mr. Amani and Mr. Modi and all his whole
1:18:16leadership had to again win a spectrum
1:18:19lies an again venture. This is what I'm
1:18:21saying failure builds you for succeeding
1:18:26in that same vertical if you're at it.
1:18:30failed in the telecom and now and and
1:18:31how and look at the adoption of religio
1:18:36which actually has made much more
1:18:37competitive and capabilities have gone
1:18:40in seeing that competition is possible
1:18:42and that achievement and it's a
1:18:44tremendous culture. Tata group is
1:18:46phenomenal. Tata group is old school
1:18:49industries
1:18:51steel and you know consumer goods and
1:18:56car automo is a big thing for Tata Group
1:18:59and also I think Air India will
1:19:01stabilize and do well over a period of
1:19:02time.
1:19:03>> Taj is doing
1:19:04>> Taj is phenomenal. It's one of the
1:19:05biggest brands in the world. Um so Tata
1:19:08Group is also phenomenal.
1:19:09>> Of course they are. I'm just wondering
1:19:11>> I think the challenge of speed is very
1:19:13much there.
1:19:13>> Only speed.
1:19:14>> Speed is very
1:19:15>> nothing else. know like they both are
1:19:17great at what they do
1:19:18>> pride of India both but I think speed is
1:19:21just because decision making
1:19:24>> centralized decision
1:19:25>> centralized decision making
1:19:26>> one simple team's thought process and
1:19:29conviction whether we succeed or fail
1:19:32>> uh yeah absolutely go is a fantastic
1:19:34example is a fantastic example
1:19:37>> have you met Ratant Tata or Mages Mani
1:19:39>> no I have I have not met I have met
1:19:41Ratant Tata in the in there is there's
1:19:43always this um we have the G conclave
1:19:47and when I was at Tata group I used to
1:19:50attend it all the time and um Ratant
1:19:54Tata used to address and after the it's
1:19:57a podium and auditorium in in South
1:19:59Bombay and then after that um he used to
1:20:02meet everybody so I've had the pleasure
1:20:05of him I've had the pleasure of him
1:20:09meeting me and um my nana was Dr. Omit
1:20:14Chhattaji um who was my mother's mama
1:20:18very close was the founder of Tatastel
1:20:20sponge Tatast steel the backbone he he
1:20:23was in a wheelchair for years and uh
1:20:27that's why he remembered my Nana G's
1:20:30name and he he spent two three minutes
1:20:32before you know he was swed by people
1:20:35>> swarmed by people Mr. Tmani I did not
1:20:38meet but I met the whole leadership who
1:20:39used to review on SAP on behalf of when
1:20:42I was architecting um met him once um
1:20:47what a personality and what the
1:20:48leadership hands on hands-on
1:20:52system wise hands on they'll question
1:20:54they'll grill you and absolutely
1:20:57hands-on Tata group of course I have had
1:20:59the pleasure of meeting
1:21:02Cyrus Mistri Noel Tata Chandra Shakhar
1:21:06Chandra across various times I've been
1:21:09working I've not been in the Tata group
1:21:10for the last four years.
1:21:12>> One common thing about all these guys is
1:21:16um is the belief system is at a
1:21:20different league here and it has to be
1:21:23right carrying the hope of 1.4 billion
1:21:26Indians India to the world building
1:21:29things for so many and I was watching
1:21:32Titan the other day. You can't actually
1:21:35figure out the impact of JD Tata
1:21:40[snorts] how
1:21:42what from where they pivoted these two
1:21:45conglomerates
1:21:47Netflix three-part movies should be made
1:21:50over a period of time just on the
1:21:51history of India. Yeah.
1:21:53>> Agreed.
1:21:53>> Unbelievable.
1:21:55>> Agreed.
1:21:56And now so you were with India listed
1:22:00companies.
1:22:01>> Yes. Now you're with US listed company.
1:22:05>> Wow.
1:22:06>> What what is the difference a US listed
1:22:09company working in a US listed company
1:22:11versus India listed company and in both
1:22:14places you've you've been in leadership.
1:22:16>> Yes.
1:22:16>> So you see challenge and compliance and
1:22:18all the other things in from the front
1:22:21seat
1:22:21>> in 2022 when I left Tata Group and I
1:22:24joined Resolve AI PLC. Resolve was a few
1:22:29hundred million dollar revenue company.
1:22:31>> But the challenge which my founder
1:22:33chairman Dan Wagner who's a dear friend
1:22:34over the years
1:22:36>> um gave me was build the model which is
1:22:40known to us. So our background was
1:22:43e-commerce as you know D2C B2B we were
1:22:46building e-commerce for
1:22:48>> SAP Accenture Infosys across my 25 and
1:22:51his background was also search and
1:22:52e-commerce
1:22:54>> and he said yeah the let's build models
1:22:57in Agentic this is 10 years back he had
1:23:00started this and I said
1:23:03really
1:23:04and he said no he has a he was he's his
1:23:07hunches has been unveing
1:23:11and And I was like I'll learn
1:23:13>> how what I build to take building to
1:23:16secondary [laughter]
1:23:17>> secondary and I will learn right and
1:23:20then he said one day I want to list this
1:23:22in NASDAQ because his last organization
1:23:24was a massive failure but on the verge
1:23:27of listing 3 months away he he tanked
1:23:30>> and the next day he registered this
1:23:32company and took the product and then I
1:23:36said okay I have to build retail
1:23:39e-commerce hotel hospitality CPGI models
1:23:42and agentic systems. Agentic systems in
1:23:46there was nothing called agentic. The
1:23:48word agent meant only his flip and
1:23:52[laughter] intelligence agents.
1:23:54>> Okay, fine. And then the world started.
1:23:56But then he one day in 2022 towards the
1:23:59end I was traveling with him in the US.
1:24:01No, in in London probably. He said to
1:24:04me, I want to list this company. I said
1:24:08where? I thought London Stock Exchange.
1:24:09It's a British company. They said no in
1:24:12NASDAQ.
1:24:15I know what is NYC and NASDAQ in terms
1:24:18of stock. The one is the biggest stock
1:24:20exchange in the world. The other is the
1:24:22second biggest stock exchange in the
1:24:23world. It's US's backbone.
1:24:26And then we went on in August 2024.
1:24:31gives me shivers standing in the NASDAQ
1:24:35stage
1:24:37preparing for the bell ringing and then
1:24:40you come out and you see yourself in
1:24:42that huge tower with your face and your
1:24:46standing and all of that pictures of
1:24:48your own self and it's like goosebump
1:24:51it's like where were we where was I I
1:24:54was building loyalty and ecom in India
1:24:57and I my career has been in outside
1:25:00India anyway but Then stack listing is
1:25:02an unparalleled and we are a small cap
1:25:05from there to now today we are couple of
1:25:08billion dollars in valuation our revenue
1:25:11is at about 500 million which is the
1:25:12guidance topline this year 360 500
1:25:16contractual value yeah it's a the
1:25:18journey has been
1:25:20Raj last 24 months post listing
1:25:25average 100our weeks for me and 20
1:25:28countries I'm traveling so health took a
1:25:30back seat being a professional
1:25:32sportsman. My sugar went up, my pressure
1:25:35was but fun has been unbelievable. The
1:25:38fun of building something at that level
1:25:41and I'm so proud that we are the only AI
1:25:44company to have the heart to list in
1:25:47NASDAQ
1:25:48when not many AI companies have even
1:25:51thought. I mean today Anthropic is
1:25:52probably going to be an IPO in NASDAQ.
1:25:55We just had SpaceX which is not an AI
1:25:57company. It's a space company. It has
1:26:00got X.AI
1:26:02but we built it on the base of 25 20
1:26:05plus patents our own model some model
1:26:09I had a I had two PhDs back in the day
1:26:12when nobody cared there was no money
1:26:14then I moved to e-commerce most of my
1:26:16life and then building models which can
1:26:21become a change which can behavior
1:26:24change and today I'm working on the
1:26:26future of purchase I mean one of one of
1:26:29your team members give a beautiful name
1:26:32that just say future of purchase is what
1:26:33you're working who understands future of
1:26:35e-commerce can be many things future of
1:26:37purchase which is the so it gives me
1:26:40amazing goosebumps that I'm I'm a
1:26:4250-year-old man working with 25 year
1:26:44olds building models and agentic systems
1:26:46>> for the retail industry hotels and CPG
1:26:51>> best and biggest and the best of retail
1:26:53brands in the world
1:26:54>> show me what is it what what does it
1:26:55look like what is future of purchase
1:26:58>> okay see What used to be the normal life
1:27:01of ours? If I go to any of the
1:27:03e-commerce sites,
1:27:04>> it used to be search.
1:27:07>> I go to e-commerce sites, I don't have
1:27:08to show it to them.
1:27:09>> Search there used to be a product detail
1:27:11page.
1:27:12>> Yes.
1:27:13>> Search is to be 35 40% of the traffic,
1:27:16men, women agnostic.
1:27:19>> Our vision
1:27:20>> is to change that.
1:27:23Search results page, product detail
1:27:26page.
1:27:26>> Yeah. This is last 25 years of
1:27:29e-commerce. 26 years of e-commerce.
1:27:30>> Yes. Let's say I'll go search a watch
1:27:32and then there'll be hundreds of watches
1:27:34will be there and
1:27:35>> many pages.
1:27:36>> Pages. Yeah.
1:27:37>> It is a extremely stagnated journey. So
1:27:40you go through that you have a snippet
1:27:42then you click a watch you go to the
1:27:44product detail page come back
1:27:46>> again filter left. Right.
1:27:50Now, what happens to e-commerce
1:27:54when the world of model and agents
1:27:56arriving it? That's what I'm showing to
1:27:58you.
1:27:59>> Hi, I'm Ada, your autonomous digital
1:28:02assistant. Welcome to Resolve Fashion
1:28:04Store. What are you looking for today?
1:28:06>> Hey, Ada. Good afternoon. I'm looking
1:28:09for a pair of jeans. I want to explore
1:28:13those for a mountain hike I'm doing,
1:28:16going on holiday.
1:28:20Let me find some jeans for your hike.
1:28:23For your hiking holiday, I recommend the
1:28:26high-waist relaxed fit of the widelegg
1:28:28high-waist jeans, black, the flexible
1:28:31comfort of the men stretch denim jeans
1:28:34and the roomy, breathable style of the
1:28:36high-waist balloon jeans.
1:28:40>> I like the second option. Could you add
1:28:42the first and the second option to the
1:28:44bag, please?
1:28:46Sure,
1:28:51I can add the widele high-waist jeans,
1:28:53black, and the men's stretch denim jeans
1:28:55to your cart. To pick the right sizes,
1:28:58could you tell me your usual clothing
1:28:59size or height?
1:29:01>> I am uh I'm 6' 3, so find me the largest
1:29:05size.
1:29:06>> I've added the widelegg high-waist
1:29:08jeans, black in size extra large, and
1:29:11the men's stretch denim jeans in size 40
1:29:13to your cart.
1:29:15A I think I would also explore a couple
1:29:19of beach wear because I want to go to
1:29:23the beach with my kids first and then of
1:29:25course near the beach there are
1:29:27mountains I'll go for a hike. Could you
1:29:28show me some beach wear t-shirts?
1:29:30>> Got it. I'm finding some beach ready
1:29:32t-shirts for you and the kids. Give me a
1:29:35moment while I pull up the options
1:29:37>> so I don't have to search anymore. Just
1:29:39say that this is the occasion I'm going
1:29:40for.
1:29:41>> Here are three great beachwear picks.
1:29:43The vibrant kids blue pocket t-shirt for
1:29:46the little adventurers. The playful kids
1:29:48casual t-shirt with its palm tree print.
1:29:52And the versatile women black boat neck
1:29:54top that's perfect for a relaxed beach
1:29:56look.
1:29:57Let me know if you'd like to add any of
1:30:00these to your cart or see more options.
1:30:04>> I'll come back to you. Uh give me a few
1:30:06minutes. Thank you.
1:30:11>> Sure. Take your time. I'll be here
1:30:12whenever you're ready.
1:30:17>> Imagine the world in one year's time. By
1:30:20the way, this is getting adopted by name
1:30:23a brand who is already a customer of
1:30:25Resolve AI from H&M to Zara from
1:30:29>> all of them are using this.
1:30:30>> They're all rolling this out. The reason
1:30:33why they're rolling this out is if I
1:30:35plug in OpenAI, it's full of
1:30:36hallucination
1:30:38>> because they will plug in from the
1:30:41internet. they can't plug into the
1:30:42systems. M
1:30:44>> so I have to build models and agentic
1:30:45systems and agents which can plug into
1:30:49the new launches ERP
1:30:52information management system order
1:30:54management systems
1:30:55>> of a brand's infrastructure
1:30:56>> and she gets my context
1:31:00>> I'll give you another show you another
1:31:01example
1:31:03let me let me show you a
1:31:05>> phone pay
1:31:06>> phone pay which is which is a very
1:31:08different example
1:31:09>> okay
1:31:11>> and this can be fine I think it'll pick
1:31:13up anyway.
1:31:14>> And are you recording on this?
1:31:16>> No, I'm not showing anything. It's a
1:31:17It's a voice.
1:31:18>> Okay.
1:31:19>> Okay. Imagine we all love India's brands
1:31:22as well, right?
1:31:25>> After 7:00 p.m. the call centers are
1:31:27shut.
1:31:28>> Hotels [snorts] call centers are shut.
1:31:31>> 12 hours before 9:00 p.m. I'm not able
1:31:33to do anything.
1:31:34>> If I'm online, I'm only restricted to
1:31:36online booking.
1:31:37>> Yeah.
1:31:37>> Okay. Let's just see what we can do.
1:31:48Hi, this is David. Welcome to Resolve
1:31:50Hotels, a luxury property in the heart
1:31:52of New York. How can I help you?
1:31:54>> Hi, David. I'm going to New York with my
1:31:57dear friend Raj. Both of us are planning
1:32:00to be in New York in October, first week
1:32:02of October 4th, checking in and um
1:32:04checking out on the 10th. Give me some
1:32:06options.
1:32:11Wonderful. So, that's checking in
1:32:13October 4th and checking out October
1:32:1510th for two guests. Correct.
1:32:17>> That's correct.
1:32:21>> Perfect. Let me pull up what we have
1:32:22available for you. All right. So, for
1:32:25October 4th through the 10th, I have
1:32:27some lovely options for you. The
1:32:29Metropolitan Suite would be a beautiful
1:32:31choice.
1:32:33>> David, hold on. David, hold on. I'm
1:32:35thinking of bringing my
1:32:37little pup with me. Um, I love it. It's
1:32:40in my sisters. It's going to accompany
1:32:43us. Does your hotel allow puppies to be
1:32:47with guests?
1:32:52>> Oh, absolutely. We're a pet friendly
1:32:54hotel, so your pup is more than welcome
1:32:56to join you. Now, let me just check if
1:32:58there are any specific details about our
1:33:01pet policy you should know. Perfect. So,
1:33:03yes, we absolutely welcome pets. I just
1:33:06recommend giving us a call before your
1:33:08arrival if there are any special
1:33:09arrangements your pup might need, but
1:33:12you're all set to bring your little one
1:33:13along. So, back to those room options.
1:33:17>> Just one second. One second, David. Um,
1:33:19how far is Central Park from the hotel?
1:33:22Because I have never been to New York
1:33:25for a while and I never been to Central
1:33:27Park. Give me give me options. How far
1:33:29is Central Park from you guys?
1:33:35Right, let me check that for you. I
1:33:37don't have that information at the
1:33:39moment, but I can check online and help
1:33:40point you in the right direction. Please
1:33:42note that online information may not
1:33:44always be fully accurate. Would you like
1:33:46me to go ahead and look that up?
1:33:48>> Yes, Central Park and the iconic Apple
1:33:50store, please, as well.
1:33:55>> Perfect. Just a moment while I look that
1:33:57up for you.
1:34:00H let me try that a different way for
1:34:02you.
1:34:04[snorts]
1:34:08>> Okay, great news. You're in a fantastic
1:34:10location. Central Park is incredibly
1:34:13close, just a very short walk from us.
1:34:15And the iconic Fifth Avenue Apple Store,
1:34:18the one with the glass cube, is right
1:34:20nearby on 767 Fifth Avenue, and it's
1:34:23actually open 24/7. Both are within easy
1:34:26walking distance. You'll have no trouble
1:34:28getting to either. David, David, you're
1:34:30speaking so fast, man. It's a little bit
1:34:32borderline rude. Can you calm down and
1:34:35speak to me a little slowly? I'm an
1:34:36Indian. I don't understand the British
1:34:38accent that well.
1:34:42[laughter]
1:34:43>> I'm so sorry about that. Let me slow
1:34:45down for you. Central Park is very close
1:34:48to us, just a short walk away.
1:34:50[laughter] And the Apple Store on Fifth
1:34:52Avenue, the one with the big glass cube,
1:34:55is also nearby. It's also all day and
1:34:58night. Both are easy to reach on foot
1:35:00from the hotel. Is that better?
1:35:02>> Much better. David, I'll come back to
1:35:04you. Thanks very much. These are the
1:35:06very key information before I book into
1:35:08your hotel. I'll call back um maybe in a
1:35:10couple of hours.
1:35:15>> Of course, no problem at all. Take your
1:35:17time and whenever you're ready, I'll be
1:35:19happy to help you finalize everything.
1:35:21Just give us a call back and we'll get
1:35:23you all set up with a lovely room for
1:35:25you, your friend Raj, and your pup. Have
1:35:28a great rest of your day.
1:35:30>> Thanks. Thanks, David. [laughter]
1:35:32>> Imagine this getting rolled out to every
1:35:36hotel, every hospitality, to booking.com
1:35:40to make my trip.
1:35:42You're actually bringing the businesses
1:35:45one new revenue stream.
1:35:48What you saw is the
1:35:49>> concage.
1:35:50>> It's a It is a concage.
1:35:53>> And this one, what you saw, let me show
1:35:56you a grocery use case. And this will be
1:35:58couple of minutes and then we can stop.
1:36:10>> Hi, I'm Ada, your autonomous digital
1:36:12assistant. Welcome to Resolve Fresh
1:36:14Cart. What would you like to cook today?
1:36:17>> Ayah,
1:36:18>> hi there. How can I help you with your
1:36:20meals or grocery shopping today? Hey, I
1:36:22have a family visiting me uh tonight and
1:36:28uh I'm planning
1:36:28>> Got it. A family visit sounds wonderful.
1:36:31Are you looking for for a dinner, brunch
1:36:33or maybe some quick snacks? Let me know
1:36:35any dietary preferences or how many
1:36:37people you're feeding and I can suggest
1:36:39some recipes.
1:36:41>> Um it just suggest some snacks um for
1:36:44the evening. It's a group of five or six
1:36:47people who will be coming.
1:36:49Sure,
1:36:52I can suggest some tasty evening snacks
1:36:54for a group of about six. Give me a
1:36:56moment to pull up a few options.
1:37:03Here are three crowd-pleasing snack. The
1:37:06crisp and tangy fried plantain chips
1:37:08with lime sour cream and mango hot sauce
1:37:11serve six and bring a bright tropical
1:37:14flavor. The crunchy, salty, sweet turf
1:37:17mix makes about 12 cups. Perfect for a
1:37:20snack spread.
1:37:20>> I want.
1:37:21>> And the bold, flavorpacked, spicy
1:37:23chickpea poppers offer a satisfying bite
1:37:26with Thai basil and Sichuan peppercorns.
1:37:29>> Hey, a couple of them are vegan. Could
1:37:31you could you show me some vegan options
1:37:33on top of these options as well?
1:37:36>> Here are some vegan friendly snacks you
1:37:38can add. The bright fried plantain chips
1:37:41with lime sour cream and mango hot
1:37:44sauce. the hearty bean lavash triangles,
1:37:47the simple malifried peanuts, and the
1:37:49creamy ranch fun dip.
1:37:51>> All right, add them all to the cart,
1:37:53please.
1:37:54>> I can add the ingredients for each of
1:37:56those snacks. But the quickest way is to
1:37:59add the recipes to your meal plan and
1:38:01then add all the combined ingredients to
1:38:03the cart in one step. Shall I add the
1:38:06vegan options to your meal plan now?
1:38:08>> Yes, please.
1:38:14So it's like
1:38:18the shopping this is the future of
1:38:20purchase. What I'm trying to say is you
1:38:22go to any of e-commerce India.
1:38:24>> Glad you think so. Let me know if
1:38:26there's anything else I can help you
1:38:27with.
1:38:28>> So imagine uh let me just holding this
1:38:30back. Yeah. Imagine today's boring
1:38:33shopping journeys or some of us have
1:38:36built it across the world and in India
1:38:40the thumb architecture is redundant
1:38:43because we hardly we hardly use the
1:38:45thumb
1:38:46>> and all the personalization
1:38:47recommendations which came with the
1:38:49thumb. If I diffuse that then the agent
1:38:53is adding the cart.
1:38:55>> Then agent will add go all the way to
1:38:56check out and if you have a saved card
1:38:58and have a wallet GPO or whatever they
1:39:01will check out with the trust core with
1:39:05the browsers within the same brand.
1:39:07Imagine a imagine any of the grocery
1:39:1010-minut
1:39:12giants of today. This is the way forward
1:39:15because the good old detail page art
1:39:19click the drop off is car abandonment. I
1:39:22mean today there is no context. Today if
1:39:24I have to build today I have to tell the
1:39:26mossy today I have to tell my wife they
1:39:30will plan they don't have any capability
1:39:33and the public LLM public LLM doesn't
1:39:36have a commerce capability built yet. M
1:39:38>> so you either build these for the retail
1:39:40and the industry and then plug them into
1:39:44Chad GPT and Claude and Grock and
1:39:46Perplexity and Gemini because going
1:39:49forward every checkout is going to
1:39:50happen within them because the traffic
1:39:52is there.
1:39:52>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:39:55>> So this is the future Raj and this
1:39:57future is
1:39:57>> voice and agents moving your entire
1:40:00selection and context. She got it. She
1:40:03could have given me a men's jacket but
1:40:05she understood kids first. David
1:40:08understood that you know I want a puppy
1:40:11and this is not canned. I can play
1:40:12around and do many other ways to do the
1:40:14demo and
1:40:15>> and they'll remember your details and
1:40:17the more and more you book it's going to
1:40:19get better and better because they know
1:40:22inference
1:40:23context human mind human mind gave me a
1:40:26cup of coffee. This looks like a coffee
1:40:29mug. This looks like a coffee um what do
1:40:32you call this? Um this um this is a
1:40:35flask. flask, right? The human mind gets
1:40:38the flask.
1:40:41This is a cup where I'm drinking the
1:40:42water from. The human mind gets it. But
1:40:45how does a model get it? It's the 100th
1:40:48percentile of a brain which is still
1:40:49getting crystallized.
1:40:51>> Yeah.
1:40:51>> The rest of the LLMs are what one
1:40:54trillion words index and we are giving
1:40:58you a we are giving you something. I'll
1:41:00show you something on GPT which is very
1:41:02very fun and I intentionally didn't try
1:41:06it out
1:41:07>> because it'll learn.
1:41:08>> Okay. Okay. Let me just see if this
1:41:10works.
1:41:19>> Hi, good evening.
1:41:21>> Hi, good evening. How's your evening
1:41:24treating you?
1:41:25>> Evening is fine. Um, I need a few
1:41:28information. Um,
1:41:29>> sure.
1:41:31>> The Vitality Blast, the 100,
1:41:35IPL,
1:41:36the South Africa, and Big Bash. Are they
1:41:41all Are they all the same T20
1:41:43tournaments in cricket?
1:41:46[snorts]
1:41:48>> Let me check. So, yes, they're all
1:41:51franchise-based short form leagues, but
1:41:53they're not identical. For example, the
1:41:55100 is actually 100 balls, not 20 overs.
1:41:59And the Vitality Blast is a county
1:42:01competition, not franchisebased.
1:42:04IPL, SA20, and BBL are closer to each
1:42:08other in structure. Given what we've
1:42:10talked about before, I think you're
1:42:11after like to like. So IPL, SA20, BBL,
1:42:16and the 100 line up more similarly than
1:42:19Vitality Blast, which is very
1:42:20countycentric,
1:42:22>> I think.
1:42:24I think the grandeur of 100 and IPL and
1:42:29the entire optics of public loving these
1:42:34two are very similar in nature. So did
1:42:36you just hallucinate by equating 100 to
1:42:39IPL or what was that context all about?
1:42:45>> Let me double check. That's a fair
1:42:48challenge. I wasn't hallucinating, but I
1:42:51didn't separate the dimensions cleanly.
1:42:53>> Why? And why didn't you do it? And why
1:42:56didn't [clears throat] you do it? You're
1:42:56supposed to give me accurate, deep, fact
1:42:59checked point of views. Why are you just
1:43:00jumping to conclusion?
1:43:03>> You're right to hold me to that. I did
1:43:04compress too much. I should have
1:43:07separated onfield format from the
1:43:10off-field spectacle.
1:43:11>> Thanks. I'll come back. Thank you. I'll
1:43:13come back to you. I'm not very happy
1:43:14with you.
1:43:15>> Sure. Sure. [laughter]
1:43:19See this is the challenge.
1:43:21It's to a human mind you know that the
1:43:24100 is as fanfare driven compared to
1:43:27IPL. It is not the same format but how
1:43:30why are you confidently saying it
1:43:33and there are so many examples of
1:43:35hallucination.
1:43:37The challenge is if you let them
1:43:39hallucinate they'll hallucinate. I can't
1:43:40plug in that and there are Air Canada
1:43:43issue Walmart plugging out open AI. So
1:43:46the reason being you have to have
1:43:48frontier models with with the whole
1:43:51playbook. So that's where the challenge
1:43:53lies. So that is where the difference is
1:43:56making patented frontier industry
1:43:58specific models and agentic capabilities
1:44:00because
1:44:02let me give you a basic background. I
1:44:04know you've done too many AI pieces but
1:44:06the foundation is GPUs. M
1:44:09>> then comes models.
1:44:10>> M
1:44:11>> then comes orchestration where the rules
1:44:13engine lies. Then comes agents specific
1:44:16to the models. Then comes voice and
1:44:19rendering and articulation. This is the
1:44:21whole stack.
1:44:22>> Yeah.
1:44:22>> Whether notebook is built on this or
1:44:24claude is built on. This is the stack
1:44:26where if you hallucinate model
1:44:28hallucinate then you're gone.
1:44:31>> Then the agent will say the wrong thing.
1:44:33These guys are right now putting every
1:44:37possible effort to make it
1:44:38non-alucinated but it can't because it's
1:44:41Reddit is also getting picked up. XA
1:44:43point of view is getting picked up and
1:44:45internet is getting picked up.
1:44:47>> So fundamentally fundamentally sure
1:44:51it's good as a question and answers book
1:44:54and a session. It is never going to be
1:44:57um it's never going to be never going to
1:44:59be accurate unless and until you build
1:45:02dedicated frontier models.
1:45:06See every generation of technology has
1:45:08moved something.
1:45:08>> Yeah.
1:45:09>> Right. It was earlier it was typing then
1:45:12was touching then now it has come to
1:45:14voice and speaking. What's next?
1:45:19There's a lot of things which is getting
1:45:20talked about but I'll give you an
1:45:22example which I genuinely believe and I
1:45:24think I've seen you uh discussing that
1:45:28infringes is the brain computing
1:45:29interface.
1:45:30>> What do you mean by that? Explain
1:45:32>> in simple words
1:45:33>> neural link where our brain our neurons
1:45:37are decoded based on our thoughts
1:45:40deployed into AI models and then
1:45:42manifested the output. Example what is
1:45:45Neuralink trying to do? They're trying
1:45:46to plug in a chip just appealing the
1:45:49skin. Human trials are on, right?
1:45:52They're trying to understand how the
1:45:53neurons work. 83 billion neurons. Yeah,
1:45:55it's not going to be first time cracked
1:45:57properly. And a human being uses what 20
1:46:0023 21 22 billion neurons. They're trying
1:46:03to understand the motors. So best
1:46:06example of how a neuron works is a
1:46:08neuron friction.
1:46:17Who told my hands?
1:46:20Does my hands have intelligence?
1:46:22No. Right. Shoulder have intelligence?
1:46:24No. Right. The intelligence is here.
1:46:26It's a combination of neurons telling my
1:46:29motor skills.
1:46:30>> Yeah.
1:46:31>> To pick up the cup.
1:46:33>> Okay. Now, if you can decode that and
1:46:37deploy it into a model and analyze. So
1:46:40all of what we are seeing with neural
1:46:42link use cases is a paraplegic patient
1:46:45completely in vegetative state able to
1:46:47say what he wants asking the question
1:46:50maybe the whole brain never gets fried
1:46:52>> he's able to say roti or chow in the
1:46:55night he's still able to feed
1:46:59I think the world is not far away where
1:47:02Miokaku's theories are going to become
1:47:04real
1:47:05>> what is that
1:47:05>> if the brain thinks and I want to put a
1:47:09like button as an emoji I can just by
1:47:12thinking because the foreign factor is
1:47:15already connected right so today if I
1:47:18put
1:47:20>> I've seen you put
1:47:21>> temple
1:47:24>> let's let's take away the temple and the
1:47:27neural links of the world let's just
1:47:28keep that aside what is the fun
1:47:30foundation of the intelligence it's
1:47:32brain it's 1,000 percentile is got
1:47:35deployed into AI mind space
1:47:39>> what If the brain can communicate
1:47:42to a form factor, what is the form
1:47:44factor? Phone may apps. Let's start with
1:47:47the basics. Phone apps have got a
1:47:50frequency NFC chip. That's why a phone
1:47:52can be tapped. You've seen everywhere
1:47:54and a credit card transaction goes.
1:47:56>> So there is a frequency which it picks
1:47:58up. It has got various frequencies for
1:48:01health parameters. NFC chip is baked in.
1:48:04>> What if I can synchronize that with the
1:48:06chip inside here?
1:48:09How does haptics work? Haptics is
1:48:12something.
1:48:12>> How far are we from this?
1:48:15Raj
1:48:15>> the work is on. You are also aware the
1:48:17work is over. Was was around COVID we
1:48:21thought that Jai explosion I
1:48:25none of us thought and today we can't
1:48:28operate without these LL and you just
1:48:30saw that I'm doing industry specific AI
1:48:34work. The work is very much on. It is
1:48:38time when some of these large tech
1:48:41companies will take a experimental
1:48:43plunge like 4.2 of what GPD did. It will
1:48:47deploy a certain piece of hardware
1:48:50attached to your smartphone and it
1:48:52starts communicating simple things like
1:48:55you think of a like button and you get
1:48:57hit a like without even saying or
1:48:59touching. you think of uh
1:49:02>> communicating something to you
1:49:03>> communicating something and you know I
1:49:05can the sentence I'm constructing is in
1:49:07my head before it comes into my mouth
1:49:11>> so I can still construct the sentence in
1:49:13my head and if the form factor is synced
1:49:17it I can type up that paragraph
1:49:20that's not far away Raj will you put
1:49:23that chip if it's available
1:49:24>> I will first thing I will
1:49:27>> you will
1:49:28>> I will and I'll experiment
1:49:29Aren't you scared?
1:49:32>> My wife and my kids and my close
1:49:35relatives who are still alive will be
1:49:37[laughter]
1:49:38>> but human trials are on so I won't be
1:49:40scared because some of us have to take
1:49:42the plunge and see if it works or not. I
1:49:44don't think it'll fry my brain
1:49:47at least I'll not put it till aren't you
1:49:49afraid you might get controlled by the
1:49:51chip manufacturer or the brand which is
1:49:53actually making a chip.
1:49:55>> I'm sitting in Mumbai Raj I'll make a
1:49:57DIY version out of it. and mitigate the
1:50:00risk factors out of it.
1:50:02>> But someone still get a power to
1:50:04>> you can own mind.
1:50:06>> Let me put it this way.
1:50:07>> Yeah.
1:50:08>> Like the screen obsession. There is a
1:50:11theory going on that the algorithm
1:50:13economy is controlling my mind
1:50:15especially youngsters who are born
1:50:17today.
1:50:19The human mind is I think far stronger.
1:50:22I think the full scale neuron capability
1:50:25is still not the human mind uses. I
1:50:27think we'll still come out of it. We'll
1:50:29still be able to control. If you don't
1:50:31even plunge, then how will we know where
1:50:33to where to lie? Draw the line.
1:50:37You will, I think, as well.
1:50:39>> I will. [laughter]
1:50:43>> I'll be scared and still do it.
1:50:45>> I'm the first one to do all of these
1:50:46things.
1:50:47>> Yeah. Same.
1:50:47>> I'm like,
1:50:50one life. What if it just changes the
1:50:52whole thing?
1:50:54I'm very like uh experimental
1:50:56experimental with technology
1:50:58>> and technology has to have some some
1:51:02users who will stretch the barriers of
1:51:04adoption or else how will it happen
1:51:07>> the first scary thought
1:51:09>> it is a very scary thought
1:51:10>> I'll be scared
1:51:12>> but probably I'll do it
1:51:13>> I'll ask you a question you know because
1:51:15you know
1:51:17you are making us extremely proud what
1:51:19is the thinking behind becoming
1:51:23Top five. Don't say top 10. Top five in
1:51:26the world. What is the thinking you and
1:51:28the team have? Allow me to have a quick
1:51:30question to you.
1:51:31>> What do you mean by thinking?
1:51:33>> What is the thinking which went? Is it
1:51:35the support? It is the adoption
1:51:37>> like why did we start thinking like
1:51:39this?
1:51:39>> Yes, of course the support and adoption
1:51:41is there. No, but like the it was uh we
1:51:46we were
1:51:50we just became India number one.
1:51:51>> Yes.
1:51:52>> Like this was 2 and a half years ago.
1:51:54>> Yes.
1:51:56>> And I was sitting with someone very very
1:51:58important. Right. That person told me
1:52:01that you know what Raj from India nobody
1:52:06in the soft power has ever reached top
1:52:0810 in in the world. So India has never
1:52:11seen anyone reach top 10 list which is
1:52:14any global list. We have our own list
1:52:16and we top in that that's a different
1:52:18thing but any global top list we've not
1:52:21reached. You take director, actor,
1:52:24entertainers, comedians, podcasters,
1:52:26creators, anyone.
1:52:30We have never seen it neither in sports.
1:52:33>> Yeah. Very
1:52:34>> the cultural we cricket is a very
1:52:36segmented sport
1:52:37>> because it's played by few
1:52:39>> 10 countries. Yeah.
1:52:40>> So overall in top list which is globally
1:52:43adopted at a large scale no one from
1:52:46India has ever reached top 10
1:52:49>> and I was like
1:52:50>> soft power
1:52:51>> why like why soft power we are not there
1:52:55because India in the list by economy we
1:52:58are in top five
1:53:00>> right in so many other things we have
1:53:03reached top why specifically in soft
1:53:06power we lacking and that troubled me a
1:53:08lot and I was like do it.
1:53:14And to me just that
1:53:16it's
1:53:18more than conviction.
1:53:21It's more of a pursuit
1:53:23>> and patience.
1:53:24>> Can we all come together?
1:53:25>> Correct.
1:53:26>> We are young. We can afford to take
1:53:27risk.
1:53:28>> Absolutely.
1:53:29>> Can we all at least pursue
1:53:32to take India's soft power and give it a
1:53:36seat at the world table? That's it. If
1:53:40we can pursue now
1:53:43we will do it
1:53:460.01% if you're not able to do it
1:53:49because we are attempting someone else
1:53:50is actually seeing us do that and that
1:53:53person will do it. So it's either us or
1:53:56plus one [snorts]
1:53:57>> definitely happening
1:53:58>> 100%. definitely happening. So I mean in
1:54:01both the things I'm getting happy then I
1:54:04have [clears throat] one last question
1:54:06>> which is on everything right which is is
1:54:11what cost did you personally pay to
1:54:15become
1:54:16the CTO of one of the largest companies
1:54:20in the world.
1:54:28I became a [sighs]
1:54:31average husband.
1:54:35I became a very average brother.
1:54:38I became a friend.
1:54:41And I became
1:54:45a very absentee father
1:54:50because I wanted to wanted that became a
1:54:52purpose.
1:54:54Now
1:54:57they know
1:54:59but I I'm basically a very loving
1:55:01affectionate human being. So I can't
1:55:03stay without my family. I can't stay
1:55:05without my friends. They've built
1:55:07tolerance. Raj. I always say to my wife
1:55:10who's been with me for 21 years say to
1:55:13me that the the real guy might be
1:55:16actually at work. This is probably the
1:55:18dude other avatar. My boys who are young
1:55:21and 15 and 11 they understand
1:55:24>> they understand [clears throat]
1:55:26lot of cost Raj losing parents when I
1:55:29was lot of cost
1:55:33computer science background MBN to make
1:55:36a life to mitigate debt
1:55:42lost a lot Raj lost closest of people
1:55:46couldn't see my parents
1:55:50days when they were not well came back.
1:55:53Didn't see my father's last few days.
1:55:56Just spoke to him. Didn't see my mom
1:56:01mama I used to call her and she used to
1:56:03she's a cricket fanatic. And then I
1:56:05spent the last few days with her and
1:56:08before passing away guess the last
1:56:10conversation I had with her Jack Callis
1:56:12had retired. Huh? The last conversation
1:56:15she had with me was, "Is Gary sober or
1:56:17Jack Call is the greatest allrounder?
1:56:20What a [snorts] way to go."
1:56:22She went, "I lost a lot."
1:56:26Stupid emotional Indians we are. I
1:56:29sometimes now sit and watch my boys. I'm
1:56:31trying to there be there for them. And
1:56:33my wife is a phenomenal friend of mine.
1:56:37And I hope you get a friend in your
1:56:39partner someday because then you know
1:56:43that there's somebody to back you up.
1:56:45And she's been phenomenal in holding me
1:56:48together.
1:56:50He wants to break and you know wants to
1:56:52tear and he wants to be the biggest
1:56:54thing in the world. He wants to build
1:56:56with youngsters. One thing they all love
1:56:58is the way I take my ecosystem. And my
1:57:01boys I hope fingers crossed they become
1:57:03good human beings but lost a lot. It's
1:57:06too big. It's it's beautiful podcast,
1:57:08right? So lost a lot, but I don't I do
1:57:12regret. I can't don't have the heart to
1:57:15say I don't regret. I'm a human being at
1:57:17the end of the day. And I and I nowadays
1:57:20now I treasure every relationship, every
1:57:23interaction, professional, industry. I
1:57:25treasure them. I don't want to I need a
1:57:29reason that they they should call me.
1:57:31I'll call them and meet up there because
1:57:33now today I realized how important it is
1:57:35to be in touch with each other.
1:57:36>> Yeah,
1:57:37>> it is such a simple thing but such a
1:57:40valuable thing and I suggest to you as a
1:57:43elder brother value them because life
1:57:47will pass you and uh
1:57:50regrets like I don't have the heart to
1:57:52say I have no regrets in life. Regrets
1:57:54are [clears throat]
1:57:55>> I love that because a lot of people say
1:57:57that they don't have any regrets. I love
1:57:59people who are honest enough to admit
1:58:03that they have regrets.
1:58:05>> I do. I do. And and I'll live with it.
1:58:07>> I'll live with it. I'll live with it and
1:58:09I'll move forward every day [laughter]
1:58:12doing bad things.
1:58:14And I hope
1:58:18[laughter]
1:58:23Thank you so much for coming out. Thank
1:58:25you for doing this. I really loved it.
1:58:27>> Same. Same here. Thanks, champ.
1:58:30>> Thank you, sir.
1:58:36>> Nice to meet you, sir. Good to see you.
1:58:38>> As an elder brother, I would I just wish
1:58:41>> healthy.
1:58:42>> I'm sure you are. Parents are good.
1:58:45>> Great.
1:58:46>> That's the most important. And you're
1:58:47looking after such a fantastic. This is
1:58:49the age group I work with across the
1:58:51world. India maybe.
1:58:52>> Okay. I was just telling these guys a
1:58:55lot of joy and happiness and pride I
1:58:57feel about you
1:58:58>> with joy
1:58:59>> a lot of because you know sometimes you
1:59:01know
1:59:02>> I have it India to the globe
1:59:05>> you know my I'm sure
1:59:07>> I see the next somebody few of you guys
1:59:10are taking on India to the globe making
1:59:12us
1:59:14the way you guys are making us look
1:59:16>> thank you we're trying thank you for
1:59:18watching this episode till the end we
1:59:20would love to know what you liked or
1:59:22disliked about this episode and which
1:59:24guests you would like to see on the
1:59:26show. Let us know in the comments. Your
1:59:28feedback help us improve and make every
1:59:31episode a little better. I'll see you
1:59:33next time. Until then, keep figuring out
1:59:36[music]
1:59:43[music]
1:59:49[music]

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This page contains the full transcript of Top CTO's Advice: The Real Reason You Are Not Growing | Sauvik Banerjjee | FO558 Raj Shamani by Raj Shamani, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 18,606 words across 3,028 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

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