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ToneGodz | Live Webinar 11.09.2025 — Transcript

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0:00Uh we're here to enjoy a couple of like
0:04hours maybe hopefully with uh the mighty
0:08producer behind master of puppets ride
0:11the lightning and injustice for all. So
0:14please welcome press music.
0:17>> Hi everybody.
0:21>> Yeah,
0:22>> thank you guys so much for doing this
0:24once again.
0:25>> Yeah, it's great. And then I actually
0:27enjoy this. It was fun last time. Well,
0:30I uh I think I can probably speak for
0:31everybody. We all enjoy it, too. Thank
0:33you so much.
0:33>> That was that was good. All right, cool.
0:35Uh I know we've gotten a lot of
0:37questions
0:39and we're probably going to come to that
0:40in a minute, but as you can see, I'm
0:43back in the studio.
0:45Uh as always, even though I'm an old
0:47fart now, I still go to the studio every
0:49day. So, I'm here for like eight hours
0:52straight every [ __ ] day. It's
0:54fantastic.
0:55Mixing a Danish/German band. They're
0:59pretty good pop music. But yeah, um
1:03so should we get started? You we have
1:06tons of questions, so we'll probably
1:08have a pretty long night in ahead of us.
1:11I'm thinking it'll take a couple of
1:12hours to go through it. And if there's
1:15any I I don't know how this is going to
1:17work, but if there's anybody who has
1:19question, do they have to write them to
1:22you, Sack, or how do we do that? Uh well
1:26after you've answered the pre-written
1:28questions and if someone has still like
1:31more questions that he would like to ask
1:34um with a raise of a hand uh you could
1:37uh signal that you have a question and
1:39uh then you can go ahead and ask uh
1:42directly to you. So yeah.
1:43>> Okay. Cool. Nice. Yeah. As long as you
1:46know how that works because you're
1:48>> because I have a lot of questions.
1:52>> Yeah. and we're going to go through, you
1:54know, a bit of it, so it's it'll
1:56probably all be all right. So, should we
1:58start with the first one?
2:01>> Uh, yes.
2:03>> Uh, okay. Right. So, question number
2:08one, you often flip the face on the omni
2:11mics. Was it to match the fade of the
2:14other two or did you want to create a
2:16kind of engineered chaos of face
2:18cancellation?
2:21Um, I always do that
2:25when uh
2:28when I record and use multiple mics. I
2:31always check the phase and I I don't
2:35really care whether they're in phase or
2:37out of phase because most of the time I
2:39route them just to one track. At least I
2:41did back in the day. Um just to
2:44understand why this question arises,
2:47it's because uh when we recorded the
2:50Metallica albums, we had two cabinets on
2:54all the rhythm guitar amps
2:56and that meant that we had six mics all
2:59together.
3:01And and what I did when I uh recorded it
3:05was I simply listened to all the mics
3:07and I used the one I thought sounded
3:09good to that particular sound and I did
3:12the blend right away. And that meant
3:16that sometimes I had to reverse the
3:18phase
3:19on the uh on the room mics because they
3:23were out of phase. And and it's it's
3:25always a question of uh combination of
3:29balance and phase when you want to try
3:32and create those sounds. Uh cuz I mean
3:35there actually if you take um and stick
3:38a mic on top of the you know over the
3:40cabinet pointing downwards 45°
3:46um that would most of the time be in
3:48phase but it actually sounds better when
3:50it's out of phase. So, so all the
3:52choices I did there was because of uh
3:55the way it sounded
3:57and and as I said, I had six mics
4:03on the two cabinets, a 57 in the cone of
4:06uh each cab on one of the speakers. Uh
4:09two tube mics AKG gold tubes like 45°
4:14from the corner of the of the of the
4:16cabinet about 3 to 4 feet away. And then
4:20a room mic, which was always a BNK uh
4:23they're called D A now. A DPA, sorry,
4:26they're called DPA 406, which is an omni
4:29mic. And I simply combined those to get
4:33the sound that I wanted. And sometimes I
4:36would use only the 257s
4:40and sometimes I would feature the uh
4:43AKGs, the gold tubes, but that was very
4:46different from uh sound to sound. So, I
4:49hope that answers your question. But
4:51every time you have more than one mic,
4:53you should check your face because that
4:56can get really ridiculous if you don't
4:58take care of that. That's actually the
5:00first thing I do when I mix drums is I
5:02make sure that all my mics are in phase.
5:06So, I hope that answers the question.
5:10Anybody has any questions to that?
5:16Doesn't sound that way.
5:20Question two,
5:22what are your thoughts on summing two
5:24bass drums to a mono track
5:28at the track tracking level? Pros and
5:31cons. All right. Well, obviously
5:37you're there there's there's room for
5:39error if you bounce stuff right away,
5:42but back in those days, we basically had
5:4524 tracks to work on. And if we were
5:47lucky, we had two 24 tracks. So we'd use
5:51track 24 as a synchronization track. So
5:54that meant we had 46 tracks. And we
5:56simply couldn't afford to
5:59record the drums on I think on the write
6:03the lightning I used five or seven
6:05tracks. I think I used kick, snare,
6:10t uh uh kit, and room mics because we
6:15had a lot of room mics. We had four room
6:17mics in in each corner of the room
6:20and and
6:22I would ask Lars to play a double bass
6:25drum part and I would balance those
6:26drums right off the bat.
6:29That also means that EQing one would
6:32also EQ the other. But uh I mean we
6:35recorded it so they sounded good. So if
6:37you wouldn't wanted to change anything
6:39you do it on both kicks which kind of
6:41makes sense. But any day today, I would
6:45record them on separate tracks. But it
6:47was a necessity because of the lack of
6:49tracks back in those days. So that's why
6:52we did it. And yeah, I mean, if if you
6:56get one of them too loud or too soft,
6:59you'd have to compress your way or gate
7:01your way out of that. And that that was
7:03always hell. So I'm glad we have
7:06unlimited tracks today. Sorry.
7:11Got a bit of a flu. So, I'm going to
7:13have to
7:16uh beg my pardon on that. And I hope
7:18that answers it.
7:21So, here's the big questions. What made
7:25the Trident console special?
7:29Well, there's a long history about the
7:31Trident A range,
7:33but as opposed to almost any other disc
7:38that was ever built in the world,
7:42this was made and refined by the
7:46engineers of Trident Studios in London.
7:49And most of this happened uh uh at the
7:52time where they started doing the first
7:53Queen albums.
7:57And they had options
8:00for different configurations of
8:02resistors and capacitors.
8:05And they would actually get two totally
8:09equal looking modules but with different
8:12components inside.
8:15And the choice was always made that they
8:17chose the one that sounded best.
8:22So
8:24if you do specs on a Trident A range,
8:29it's actually
8:31not that good. I mean, there's there's a
8:34lot of face [ __ ] happening when you uh
8:38when you start EQing and uh there's a
8:41face reverse going from one side to the
8:43other. There's a lot of [ __ ] But just
8:48sticking in a microphone and open
8:50opening, you know, the channel without
8:52any EQ, just going through the mic
8:54preamp,
8:56it would already sound pretty damn good.
8:59as opposed to a lot of other consoles
9:02where when you opened uh like say the
9:04bassrum mic, it would already have a bit
9:07of like snap to it and a bit of like
9:12so so it just sounded [ __ ] so hella
9:17good. It was it was really fantastic.
9:22And I'm glad that uh the guy who bought
9:24it bought all the uh modules he he could
9:27get hold of that I sold. So he's
9:29actually put it together again. So it's
9:31having its own quiet life up in
9:32Goththingberg in Sweden and it was just
9:36too worn down for me to use or anything.
9:38I had about three channels that was were
9:41left working and I I didn't have I mean
9:43I sold it like two and a half years ago
9:45and he's not done fixing it up yet. So
9:49there you can see I still have like
9:52Trident channels in Iraq though and I'm
9:55going to pick up two more channels
9:56tomorrow. So, I actually have just as
9:59many Triton channels as I had when I
10:01sold the desk. But it did sound [ __ ]
10:06really really really nice.
10:10So, that that's I mean, if you can ever
10:11get hold of any any modules from a
10:14Trident A range and you can afford it,
10:17buy them because they simply sound good.
10:19I don't know what it is they've done and
10:22it's not like expensive components or
10:24anything. It's just the way they
10:25combined them just made it sound really
10:28really nice. And the equalizer is one of
10:30those EQs where you start EQing and and
10:34it does exactly what you expect it to
10:37do. It doesn't harshen up the highend.
10:40It's fantastic. There are of course
10:43people who don't like that sound.
10:47I've met a few that thought that uh they
10:51that didn't like this they could only
10:52use the EQ sub to subtract, but in all
10:56honesty, I have to say I never liked any
10:57of the productions they did. So, uh it's
11:01probably their taste and and not mine.
11:04So, that makes it
11:06so get a Trident disc if you can. Sat I
11:09can't see the uh the background anymore.
11:12I can't see the questions,
11:15but I'll find them here. It's much
11:17easier. Hang on.
11:20There you go. Now there's like There you
11:22go.
11:24So, that was that was more or less that
11:28for the Trident A range.
11:31Then somebody asked
11:34um were the room room room revert made
11:38as you was recording or added later and
11:41what type of reverse is it? Well the
11:43funny thing is that when
11:47when we did all of this
11:49uh the studio only had like uh
11:54oh that's the new questions one though
11:56the studio only had two reverbs. We had
11:59a BX20,
12:01which is an AKG spring reverb, and we
12:05had an EMT 140, which is a plate.
12:09So, uh, the room mics are like an
12:13intricate part of the drum sound. We
12:16spent a lot of time putting them in the
12:19right spot. I spent a lot of time EQing
12:21and compressing them, making sure they
12:23did exactly what they were supposed to.
12:25And we had two two or three sets of room
12:28mics. We had some very far behind Lars
12:32uh in the corners of the room. It's
12:33pretty big room, 100 square meters. It
12:35was 10 by 10. No acoustic treatment
12:38whatsoever. Basically a big storage
12:41hall.
12:44And uh the far mics are what makes the
12:48drum sound so big. And also that the
12:50there were no acoustic treatment in the
12:52room made the drum sound really loud in
12:56that room. And that could help me on on
12:59the two closer re room mics I had in
13:02front of the kit. And those four mics
13:06are like half the drum sound on Ry and
13:08Master.
13:11And without those the those two albums
13:14wouldn't sound the way they do. It's
13:18uh Metallica had like uh a a master
13:24phrase for those two albums. It was no
13:26reverb
13:28cuz apparently they thought there was
13:30too much reverb on Kill Them All or they
13:32hadn't really understood what reverb
13:34was.
13:36So instead of using artificial reverb, I
13:38simply recorded the the the guitars and
13:42the drums and recorded the room they
13:45were in. So it was room sound and not
13:48reverb. And although uh the the far mics
13:52on the drums definitely are reverb,
13:57they still though has like that touch
14:00and power of being a recorded thing and
14:04not an artificial thing put on
14:05afterwards. I then might have added some
14:09extra rever reverb on the snare, but
14:11that would have been an EMT plate. Or
14:13maybe
14:14we already bought the EMT250 at that
14:17time, which is one of the very first
14:19digital reverbs that was ever made. But
14:21that was that was it for reverbs. We
14:24didn't have all those fancy reverbs that
14:26everybody's got now and they can stick
14:28reverb on anything.
14:31So, and we had like six echo sends on
14:35the desk.
14:37So that was more or less it on unless
14:40you use the the foldbacks which was made
14:43for for headphones when recording. So So
14:47all in all we had 10 cents on the
14:49Trident desk and they were more or less
14:51always in use when we mixed.
14:54Uh but the the six main echo sends were
14:58all rooted to one fader. So you could
15:01not use individual 11s on send one and
15:04send two. It was either send one or send
15:07two or send three. It's kind of funny to
15:10think about now where everybody's got
15:12like unlimited amounts of sends for
15:15their reverbs. But no, the room mics
15:19that we recorded on Ride and Master and
15:22we did the same thing on Adjusted, but
15:24but that room sounded so different,
15:27which is also one of the reasons why
15:29Injustice sound very different than Ride
15:31and Master is that it's recorded in
15:33another room. And I like the fact that
15:36you can hear the sound of the room that
15:38it's recorded in. That's also why when I
15:41record guitars, I always do it fairly
15:44loud because to me, making sound is
15:48about moving air and playing quietly
15:51with a lot of distortion doesn't really
15:53do it for me. It needs to be uh
15:57uh turned up pretty loud for me to and
16:01but yeah, I can I still have my hearing.
16:04So, even though I've had my head [ __ ]
16:06stuck in tons of Marshall cabinets uh
16:10very very loudly,
16:12I think it's a different thing when you
16:14actually uh controls the volume. You
16:18don't get surprised and it doesn't [ __ ]
16:20your ears.
16:22So,
16:24another part of this question, do you
16:26know the guitar setup like what pick
16:28strings blah blah blah? We will in some
16:30of the future cuz we've actually decided
16:33we're going to fill you more in on what
16:36happened. So, we're going to record some
16:38more uh some more episodes and in those
16:43we'll get into stuff like that about the
16:45amps and blah blah blah and all of that.
16:49And uh that's going to come in uh in
16:52some of the next episode.
16:54>> So, yeah. Number five, how exactly are
16:56we supposed to use uh the IRS and the
17:00drum samples?
17:02Uh so basically uh if we uh need to
17:06explain in basic terms, an impulse
17:09response is uh simulation of your
17:12cabinet or maybe the speaker. Uh but
17:15also the cabinet resonance is important.
17:18So
17:20uh basically uh an input response
17:23replaces your guitar cabinet. So you
17:25don't need to use another guitar
17:27physical guitar cabinet. Uh let's say uh
17:31you have an XFX and you have these IRS
17:34uh the XX or many similar units have an
17:39IR loader inside of them. So you can
17:42load these impulse responses in and the
17:46tone of that cabinet will be inside your
17:49rig. So, it's really flexible and uh the
17:53speaker and the cabinet really really um
17:56changes the sound of your rig. So, you
17:59can use this inside of your DAW or
18:02inside of your uh ampsim,
18:05whatever you like. And the drum samples
18:08uh you can use them multiple ways
18:10because they are simple WAV files and
18:15you can replace your drum tracks. But I
18:20believe uh real drums are always
18:23superior. So you can use these samples
18:26to
18:27um to reinforce the drum the drum take.
18:31So maybe mostly the kick drum sound is
18:34super iconic and in this for all. So you
18:37can enhance your drum take with this
18:40drum sample. And yes uh you can use
18:43these in inside of Garage Band. And
18:46you're not limited to produce. You can
18:48use whatever though uh you like. So
18:51there you go. Hope that helps.
18:52>> Yeah.
18:56>> Oh, sorry. On the as I say, just on the
18:57talk of the IRS and the the drum sample
19:00pack you guys sent out, um I personally
19:02can say that they are badass. Um I run
19:04them through my line six Helix pedal and
19:08um the amount of
19:12I guess I was I was having trouble with
19:14getting the guitars to kind of come to
19:15the front of my mix. And after I got the
19:18IRS, they they like they were what I was
19:21looking for. So, thank you so much for
19:23helping me get that.
19:24>> Yay.
19:26>> Yes, they they they did exactly what I
19:28was trying to have. It was there. It was
19:30like godsend. So, thank you guys so much
19:32for those.
19:33>> I really like the the kicked samples. I
19:36think that sounds amazing.
19:39>> Okay, great. Yeah, I mean that's you
19:42need you need to buy Clark oldfashioned
19:44Clark Technique graphic equalizer. You
19:46can do that yourself. They [ __ ]
19:48really help with any good mic preamp.
19:52That they really really help. And and
19:53you you have to think the
19:56all the sounds we've done on this are
19:58made just using neutral
20:01mic preamps and then the uh soft tube uh
20:05uh trident simulation which is my
20:08channel 14 and 15 on the on my desk that
20:11they've used to simulate that. And and
20:14and then uh a slight tape conversion
20:17thing and that's that's basically it.
20:19And then I just use all the stuff I've
20:21used all my life for to to do that. So
20:24it's possible even without buying a
20:26[ __ ] ancient trident to get that
20:28sound.
20:29>> So great. Thanks a lot.
20:31>> That is awesome. Hey uh Flying, I was
20:33going to save this question for later,
20:34but while we're on it real quick, I was
20:36going to ask you uh would you be willing
20:38to listen to a track that was mixed with
20:40the masterclass IRS and possibly give a
20:42little feedback on it?
20:43>> Oh yeah, sure. I mean uh my mail's got
20:47to be in there somewhere. send it to me
20:49and and specify what it is and I'll have
20:51a listen. I can't I won't do it tonight,
20:54but I'll promise I'll do it as soon as I
20:56can.
20:57>> No, I just just hearing that. Thank you
20:58so much. I appreciate that. I'll
21:00definitely do that.
21:00>> I I love to get I mean, send as much as
21:03as you everybody and that goes for
21:05everybody. Just if you have anything you
21:07want me to listen to, send it to me.
21:09>> And I was gonna I was going to play a
21:10little game with you and ask you if you
21:11think you'd be able to guess which IR
21:13I'm using out of which
21:14>> Oh, that'll be fun.
21:17>> All right. All right. Well, thank you so
21:18much. I'll make sure to definitely send
21:19that.
21:20>> Cool.
21:22>> All right. Let's go on. Question number
21:24six. You guy ask guys asked, "When mking
21:28guitar caps, did you experiment with
21:30distance mic other than the AKG?
21:33Not necessarily with Metallica, but in
21:36general. And I can only say yes. I do
21:41that all the time.
21:43I uh sometimes look at a mic when I I
21:48have to start recording. I think I
21:50haven't used that in a while. And um I
21:53try to stick that in a combination with
21:56any of the other mics to make sure that
21:57it's it's not because I'm lazy and just
22:00do what I normally do. So I experience a
22:04lot. Um
22:06unfortunately the music business doesn't
22:09really generate so much money anymore.
22:11So, I don't have an assistant engineer,
22:14but in the old days, you would have an
22:16assistant that would kind of move that
22:18mic when So, you you'd stick one
22:22normally a 57 right in front of the cone
22:24and then he could move the other mic and
22:26there would be one point where it
22:28sounded absolutely great.
22:30And I I I do it with I think I've used
22:35almost every mic I have and tried it as
22:38a room mic. And it's that thing where if
22:41you haven't tried it and it might be and
22:44you know and you suddenly find out
22:45that's the best thing in the world, you
22:47you'll you'll [ __ ] uh you'll kick
22:49yourself to death because why didn't I
22:51do this before? So I I keep
22:53experimenting
22:55all the [ __ ] time and uh yeah, it's
22:58that's just the way I am. Um so yeah, I
23:03use
23:06I think I've used most mics as room
23:08mics. My my general feeling is that
23:11condenser mics are better as room mics
23:14because dynamic mics
23:16are
23:18I mean you need to get fairly close to a
23:20dynamic mic before it picks up anything.
23:23So uh ribbon mics and and condensers are
23:27in my opinion the best to grab the room.
23:30And sometimes I change, you know, the
23:32car characteristics
23:35of the mic from from kidney to omni and
23:38sometimes figure eight to see what that
23:40does. So yeah, I experiment with that
23:43all the time. And uh yeah, u I'm going
23:48to keep doing that. My my my I mean my
23:52work ethics are if it doesn't sound
23:56good,
23:58we fix it now.
24:00the the fix it in the mix doesn't apply
24:02to me because I want it to sound good
24:05going in.
24:07And sometimes just moving a mic half an
24:10inch or you know five mm can actually
24:14change the sound so dramatic that not
24:16not even five EQs and 10 compressors can
24:19fix that in a mix situation. So, I spend
24:22a lot of time placing my mics in the
24:24right spot.
24:26And I think everybody should do I mean
24:28it it's so dramatic
24:31by just angling a mic once you've had a
24:34sound. If you then try and angle that
24:36mic just a little bit, how huge a change
24:39that is.
24:40So, uh, setting up mics and and and
24:45trying to get a sound is is is one of
24:49the things where experience is really
24:51really good. So, so just experiment,
24:53experiment, experiment. And even if you
24:55do something that sounds really bad, you
24:57know, you shouldn't do that the next
24:58time, but next time you try that, it
25:00might be the best thing in the world.
25:03There's no sure rules in this other than
25:07if you don't try it, you won't know how
25:09it sounds. So, I do that all the [ __ ]
25:13time. There's not two session that
25:16sounds the same. And I'm also because
25:18I'm I grew up uh with 24 track tapes
25:23and uh doing a lot of EQ in the mixing
25:26would sometimes
25:28bring the uh tape his to the front
25:31forefront of the sound. So So we never
25:33did that. So that means that all most of
25:36the EQing I do I do before I record it.
25:40So a lot of my sessions you can just
25:42take the faders up and put them to zero
25:44and you basically have a mix right
25:45there. But I mean that takes some
25:48experience not to overco compress things
25:51and [ __ ] and and sometimes you should
25:53overco compress them. It's there there's
25:55just no rules. Just do what sounds good
25:59and just know once you've taken the
26:01decision there's no going back and then
26:04you [ __ ] work from there.
26:06So that's that's that's my life
26:08philosophy. Right. So number seven.
26:14When you record an album with a man
26:17today, you would you record an album
26:19today using analog tape if that's what
26:22the man wanted? And what is the best way
26:24to get as close as pos to sound like
26:26analog tape when recording with digital
26:28technology? Well, that's a
26:31yeah, that's a really long discussion.
26:34Uh,
26:36I more or less
26:38dropped recording on analog tape like
26:42six, eight years ago. But that's because
26:45when I do record on analog tape, I do it
26:48the right way. So that means I adjust my
26:50machine and that means all 24 tracks
26:54where you have to record
26:56uh adjust playback level,
26:59treble playback level and bass playback
27:02level.
27:03Once you've done that, and you do that
27:06with some test tones that you recorded
27:09on the first day of your session, and
27:12those test tones has to follow the
27:15session all the way to the end because
27:17they are like the holy grail of that
27:19session. Then once you've done that, you
27:21put on a new tape and you have to adjust
27:25the recording.
27:28And again, you have to record level,
27:30highend, and low end. And it takes I
27:33mean if you're really fast you can do it
27:35in about an hour.
27:38And it's it's it's one of those thing
27:40that that that
27:42people just expect to be done. And I
27:45know for a fact that a lot of people
27:47recording on analog tape, they just put
27:50it on and they press record and they go,
27:52"Doesn't it sound good?" And I'm like,
27:54"No."
27:55Because uh the thing is with analog
27:58tape, you never get back what you put
28:00in.
28:03It will always steal some of your
28:05high-end. It will always compress things
28:07a little bit more depending on your
28:09record levels.
28:11And so basically in those days we
28:16overcompensated
28:17when recording on analog because we knew
28:20that some of the high-end would be gone
28:22when we played it back. So we always
28:24gave it a little bit too much highend
28:26and then we knew once we played it back
28:27it would sound right.
28:30And the question, yeah, I'd love to
28:33record something on analog. Um, it's
28:36just such a big hassle. So, when people
28:39started
28:40back in those days asking me,
28:43do you want to can we do this on analog?
28:46I said, yeah, you just have to pay buy
28:49tapes. There are two and a half thousand
28:50Danish croner, which is about $800
28:54a piece, and we need four. and I charge
28:58uh uh a,000 Danish croners a day extra
29:01cuz it's such a hassle. Uh suddenly none
29:05of the bands wanted to record on analog
29:07anymore
29:09and and it's it's that kind of thing. I
29:11mean on the Metallica sessions I'm
29:13guessing
29:16we used maybe 20 tapes on each and on
29:20Injustice we probably used 30.
29:24Uh cuz all the tracks have one reel that
29:28uh on Injustice all the tapes there's
29:30one reel that's just drums click track
29:34guide guitars and drums and that's it.
29:36And then we did a stereo mix of the
29:38drums and stuck that on another tape and
29:40that's where all the overdubs were done.
29:42Guitars bass and all that [ __ ]
29:45So, uh, it's
29:49it's a hassle and and you can't on
29:52analog you can't move a snare hit. You
29:56can't take a snare head and put it a
29:58little bit ahead or behind. You have to
30:00move the whole kit, you can cut in the
30:03tape. But the first time I ever tried a
30:06digital where I could actually take that
30:09hit and put it a bit further ahead or
30:11behind, that was magic. Cuz if you
30:14wanted to do that on land, that meant
30:16you had to cut it in the length of the
30:18tape with the [ __ ] and on the right
30:21tracks, you had to. So that was just not
30:24not possible. You could do edits of
30:27everything at once
30:31or you'd have to record it again. So
30:34basically
30:35everything you hear on Right the
30:37Lightning, Master of Puppets and
30:39Injustice for All
30:42that's all played.
30:44Nobody [ __ ] around and put like, you
30:46know, we will put an extra snare in
30:48there. That's everything that's on those
30:51album
30:52are played like that.
30:55There's there's no alt tune. There's no
30:59uh uh adding another track and doubling
31:02and moving stuff around. It's all
31:04[ __ ] recorded where it's at.
31:07So if a choir comes three times, we
31:11[ __ ] had to record it three times in
31:14the right spot cuz you couldn't do the
31:16other [ __ ] back in those days.
31:19So uh would I record an album analog?
31:22Sure, I'd love it. It would be strange
31:25now because I haven't done it in like
31:27eight years or so. And actually my 24
31:30track is now at the Danish Rock and Roll
31:33Museum. So, uh, and I have a lot of
31:37discussions with people who think that
31:40just because it's analog, it sounds
31:42good. That's not necessarily the case. I
31:46know there's a lot of recording
31:47engineers that loves
31:50CDs cuz what you put in you get back and
31:55that is a luxury in the recording
31:57industry. It was when the tape machines
31:59were ruling.
32:02And I think that's also the reason why
32:04the first CDs
32:06were so sharp and high-end because all
32:09the engineers always overcompensated
32:12with too much high-end and then suddenly
32:15it it didn't like diminish after you got
32:19the master back. It was like what the
32:21what? And I think that's the reason why
32:24the first CDs probably sounded pretty
32:26bad because the engineers hadn't kind of
32:28gotten used to it yet. They thought that
32:30if once they did the mix uh on which was
32:34also done on an analog tape quarter inch
32:37or half inch or whatever you know put a
32:40little extra high end on and then it
32:41would you know get disappear somewhere
32:44on the tape and it would be fine once
32:47you heard it back and once they got to
32:50the CD stage that didn't didn't
32:53disappear they got that right back in
32:55their face.
32:57So yeah, I would do it. But
33:03these days, in my opinion, with the new
33:05converters that's come out the last
33:07couple of years, I mean, digital sounds
33:10just as good as analog. I've used a lot
33:13of different
33:15um
33:17analog, like tape emulators, and
33:22I think most of them sound pretty good.
33:24Um, it's not a thing I do on a regular
33:27basis because I I want to I'd rather use
33:31compressors to do what the tape does.
33:35No. Okay. I just need to
33:39uh don't answer.
33:44Send to answer. Somebody just called me.
33:47Sorry.
33:49I have to pick him up tomorrow, that's
33:51why. Uh, but yeah. I know I wouldn't uh
33:55I wouldn't mind doing it, but I I'd
33:57prefer to record it where I totally can
34:01control um the way it kind of compresses
34:05everything. And I know that Pro Tools
34:08got a thing called heat that probably is
34:10there because it should emulate it. I
34:13never tried it. And again, it's it's a
34:16thing where you don't know what the [ __ ]
34:18is going on. So, I don't like that like
34:20black boxes that you don't know what's
34:23happening inside. Oh, it sounds better.
34:24And then like, you know, five steps down
34:26the road when you're mixing it sounds
34:28absolutely like [ __ ] Um, so no, I like
34:31to know what's going on.
34:34So, that was it. With that, let me uh
34:38let me just have a some water and we'll
34:40go to number eight.
34:42>> Fleming, can I ask a quick question on
34:44your tape emulation real quick?
34:46>> Yeah, sure.
34:47>> Yeah. So, when we're using these tape
34:49emulation plugins, uh, obviously when
34:52you're doing a lot of tracks, would you
34:54put that tape simulation on each track
34:56or would you throw it on the master bus
34:58or all of them? Because sometimes I I it
35:01just seems like overkill to be putting
35:03that tape emulation on every track
35:05versus just putting it on the master
35:07bus. Well, if you if you want to emulate
35:09what happened back in the day, you
35:11should actually put it on every track
35:13because the other thing that you do if
35:15you put it on the master bus, you are
35:17actually emulating uh uh uh recording
35:21digitally and then doing the master on a
35:24quarter inch or a tape. But I mean it
35:27it's it's obviously easier to control if
35:30you do put it on the master bus. So
35:33yeah, I I but I mean if you want that
35:38to get the feel of that, you should put
35:40it on uh on all the tracks. But um I I I
35:44did it on this and that was also like uh
35:48something I'd never done before, but I
35:50wanted to hear what it sounded like. And
35:51I was actually pretty surprised how well
35:53it turned out.
35:55and it did kind of do what tape did, but
35:58it uh to be in total control, I would
36:02probably do what you said. I wouldn't
36:04put it on each each track, but on the
36:07master bus.
36:08>> Okay. Thank you.
36:09>> Uh I've actually once did a mastering
36:12that was all done on uh on like a
36:16computer and it sounded really really
36:18awful. And the only thing I did in
36:20mastering was I had uh I took it on to
36:24into my desk and I had two faders
36:27and then I played it through uh my
36:30studio a half inch and we listened on
36:32the playback head. So we heard what it
36:34sounded like and it was just basically a
36:36matter of of pushing the faders up till
36:38it didn't sound good anymore and it went
36:40from sounding really horrible not like
36:42music to sounding really good by just
36:44putting it through uh a half inch tape.
36:47So, so it can really save your day if
36:51you do it the right thing way. But then
36:54on tape, you know, I mean, Roy Thomas
36:56Baker, uh, bless him, he died what, like
36:59half a year ago. Uh, the guy that
37:02produced all the Good Queen albums and
37:03he did a lot of work in Sweet Silence as
37:05well. So, I know him personally. Um he
37:08always did his masters
37:12uh as NAB
37:15because in Europe we have CCIR which is
37:17like the pre-equalization of the tape
37:19and it does stuff but he always did his
37:22masters NAB on quarter inch cuz he
37:26thought that sounded better and that's a
37:28different like pre-EQ and post EQ like
37:31from recording and you know there's all
37:33these amps and they and and all good
37:35tape machines has a a DCIR
37:38or an NAB switch if you go 15 in that is
37:43cuz on 30 in once 30 in got uh like
37:48common they had all decided on what is
37:51called AES so that only has like one
37:54setting but on quarter inch 15 in per
37:58second you could choose between NAB and
38:01CCIR and for some reason and I've never
38:03actually tried it maybe I should do that
38:05at one point. Roy Thomas Baker always
38:08did his mixes on as as NAB even though
38:13his 24 tracks were all CCIR.
38:16So I don't know it
38:19it could do a thing. I don't I don't
38:21[ __ ] know. The Queen album still
38:23sounds good. So he's got a point.
38:26So yeah.
38:28All right. So question number eight.
38:32I've heard a lot of rumors that the drum
38:34track for Dier's Eve, I saw an interview
38:38with Los where he implied it was pieced
38:40together and that he couldn't really
38:42play it as it appears on the album.
38:46Yeah. Well, uh, Daz, what is that
38:49justice, right?
38:54>> Yeah, that's the last track on justice.
38:58>> Yeah,
38:58>> if I had my notes, I could tell you when
39:00we recorded that. Um
39:03on all the songs
39:07on Injustice the uh
39:11the the procedure was as follows.
39:15We would listen to the demo. Me, Lars,
39:17and James would be in the studio. No
39:18Kirk, no uh Jason. We would listen to
39:22the demos and we would I would send
39:26James and Lo in the studio and they
39:28would play we would start by playing the
39:30first part till they kind of found the
39:33right tempo for that. And once they had
39:36that I would do a click track
39:39with a lind drum and I would man
39:41manually turn it on and off
39:44and then once the next part came they
39:47would play that part and find the right
39:49tempo for that. And once they had that
39:52and made sure it was fine, I would punch
39:54in.
39:56That means press into record and start
39:59the lind drum with what was almost
40:03always another tempo. So we would end up
40:07having this whole song built up
40:11with a click track that went up and down
40:12in tempo.
40:15And once we'd gotten all the way to the
40:18end of the song,
40:20Lars and James would play to that click
40:22track a couple of times till they we
40:25were uh convinced
40:28that all the parts were in the right
40:30tempo. That's how that's how uh
40:35that's how specific we were when we
40:37recorded and justice for all. I mean,
40:38and basically Injustice for All should
40:40have been done on a computer cuz cuz I
40:42mean that's that's the kind of detail we
40:45went into when we did Injustice for all.
40:49And uh once we decided this is it, James
40:54would cuz we would have recorded a take
40:57all the way through. We would keep the
40:58drums and James would record two guide
41:02guitars, which was pretty damn close to
41:04what would be on the final album, but
41:06they were a guides to Lars. And then
41:08James would [ __ ] off back to San
41:10Francisco and me and Lars would simply
41:12do the drums.
41:15And
41:17some of the parts, yeah, they were
41:19really difficult.
41:22And if Lars
41:25came too late on a bass drum hit or a
41:28snare hit and the part around it was
41:31good and we wanted to keep that, I was
41:33simp I would simply edit a piece of the
41:35tape out
41:38and that happened a lot on D's Eve. But
41:41on all the songs, we would take the
41:43small bits that we cut out of the tapes,
41:46I would take and put down in a letter
41:48envelope. And all of the songs has a
41:51letter envelope of bits I've cut out of
41:54the tape. If Lost then hit like a hit
41:59too early, I would just dive down in the
42:02bag and take any [ __ ] part and glue
42:05that in. And nobody could ever hear that
42:08once we were done. It was actually
42:10magic. But that also meant that
42:14when they had to mix it because it I
42:16didn't mix it. It was uh Steven Thompson
42:19and Michael Babierro. They were already
42:21hired when I when I finally got the gig
42:25cuz I had to turn it down. That's
42:27another story.
42:29And
42:31when they put on the drum track tapes,
42:35they thought something had gone wrong
42:36because there were so many edits that it
42:39was actually physically
42:41making noise when you rewind it. And I
42:44[ __ ] hope that they've digitized that
42:46because I'm pretty damn sure that those
42:48tapes can't be played anymore. I'm
42:51totally sure that all those splices and
42:54and the splicing tape has all gone to
42:56[ __ ] hell by now. cuz it's it's what
43:0136 years ago? 88, right?
43:0637. Yeah, maybe. I don't know.
43:11So, yeah. Uh
43:14I don't remember any of them being more
43:17difficult than the others. I remember
43:20that I was dreading for the machine gun
43:23double bass drum part in one because I
43:27thought, "Oh god, that's going to take
43:28forever."
43:30But Lars actually did that in his first
43:32take. That just sat there. That was it.
43:36Just like, "All right, that's fine." And
43:37he was like, "What?" Yeah, have a
43:39listen. And he nailed that take one. So
43:43there you go.
43:45So that also answers some of uh
43:49question nine. Did Metallica always
43:51record to a click? No, they did not.
43:56I told how the click track was created
43:58in those days in the verse rift. One of
44:00the measures is short of three beats.
44:03Yeah, but that's the way they play,
44:05right?
44:06Uh they did a lot of that. But back in
44:11those days, the click track was not in
44:13counter four. It was just like a dig dig
44:16dig dig. So it could be any timing more
44:19or less as long as it was the right
44:20tempo. On the right, the lightning
44:23there's absolutely no click tracks at
44:26all. That's all recorded as
44:30well as a blues band. That's recorded
44:33without click tracks. and they it goes
44:35up and down in tempo, but that's Lars
44:37and and the band cuz they all played
44:39that together.
44:42And once we had a good take, we would
44:44fix bits that Lars did.
44:47and on the right the lightning when we
44:49were done recording we heard all the
44:51songs
44:53and they had done a version of for whom
44:56the bell toes that was simply
44:59going so much up and down in tempo that
45:01I actually uh trashed it. So there's is
45:05there is actually an alternative version
45:07of for whom the bell toes and that then
45:11I I did a click track and that is the
45:13first song they ever did to click that
45:15is for whom the bell toes and actually
45:19that still holds up today. So wasn't a
45:21bad idea.
45:24So yeah
45:27ma all of master of puppets are recorded
45:29to a click. So yeah, it is it but it's
45:31basically it's just one that goes click
45:33click click click. It doesn't have any
45:35accents. Doesn't tell you where the one
45:38is. So So it's actually one one one all
45:40the way through. Um, these days
45:45because it's so easy on the computer,
45:49I always I always count everything once
45:51a band starts playing if they play to a
45:54click and I start writing in the two
45:56fours and the three fours and the five
45:58fours and everything. Uh, but that's
46:00because I want my
46:03beginning of each verse to start on a
46:06one so that when I edit it's much
46:08easier. But yeah, um I'm pretty The
46:13first thing I always do when I hear a
46:14song is map it out. Like there's an
46:17intro, it's so many bars, then there's a
46:19second intro, there's a main riff,
46:21there's a preverse, the verse. I always
46:24map that out. And and in the old days on
46:27analog tape, I would write that uh in in
46:31one side on the uh track sheet
46:34because if you had to overdub something
46:36in chorus two,
46:38you couldn't once when you w want the
46:40tape back and forth, you didn't know
46:42whether you were in chorus one or chorus
46:442 if the vocals wasn't done. But I could
46:46always see on my counter,
46:50uh I would know that chorus 2 would
46:51start 2 minutes and 35 seconds in.
46:55and then it was easy for me to go like
46:5810 seconds before and then you know they
47:00could hear that and they'd start singing
47:02or playing or whatever they were doing.
47:05So yeah, I always map everything out and
47:07if you look at the notes that are on my
47:09old website, you can see that on all the
47:11songs there is actually like a timeline
47:14for the different parts.
47:16And on some of them, I even wrote tempo
47:18changes or if we change chords or
47:20anything, but that's just to to be
47:23organized and that's that's an important
47:25thing to do cuz
47:28then you know what's going on in in the
47:30songs and that and it's a better way for
47:32me to to learn the songs. So, and that
47:36also means that I don't need to hear
47:37much more than a couple of seconds and I
47:39can say, "Oh, I've done that. Who is
47:41that?" I can simply hear [ __ ] that I've
47:44done.
47:49>> Okay.
47:49>> Let me Can I ask something about the
47:51click on Ride the Lightning real quick?
47:53>> Yeah.
47:54>> Uh, was For whom the Bells the only song
47:56that had a click on Ride the Lightning?
47:58>> I'm pretty sure. Yeah.
48:00>> Wow.
48:01Because I mean once when we started
48:04doing Right the Lightning, they only had
48:06like
48:08five of the nine songs ready I think and
48:11the last four they actually uh uh they
48:15actually did in in the weekends cuz we
48:17didn't work weekends on Ride the
48:19Lightning. So they actually did they
48:21they actually just borrowed the studio
48:23came in and jammed and and got you know
48:26composed finished those songs. There
48:28were ideas. I'm pretty sure that uh for
48:31whom the bell to is is
48:35for a big part written in the studio,
48:37but I I know there's uh there's pages
48:40out there on the on the web where you
48:42can find out which songs were were ready
48:44and which weren't.
48:46>> That's pretty amazing. It's pretty
48:48amazing to think Fight Fire with Fire
48:50and Creeping Death were played without a
48:52click. It
48:54>> they were It was like what?
48:56>> That's pretty cool.
48:59Yeah, but but I mean we did multiple
49:02takes of those and I'm pretty sure that
49:03the that the master is uh is is an edit
49:07of different drum takes.
49:10So So that's how we did that. And I was
49:13al I was really surprised when uh how
49:15well they played cuz cuz I'd heard
49:18rumors that they might not be the best
49:20band in the world once once they wanted
49:22to come and do right. But I was really
49:24thought this is going to be easy. It
49:27wasn't, but you know it. No, it as far
49:31as I remember the only the first one
49:33they ever played to click was for whom
49:35the bell tools.
49:38So when I think back I uh I'm pretty
49:42surprised they didn't play I didn't
49:44introduce the click before but they I
49:46mean Lars had never played to it.
49:49It was just the version they done for
49:51whom the build tools was so shitty that
49:53I didn't want it on the album.
49:57And they and they have that somewhere.
50:01I'm pretty sure Lo won't play that.
50:05So, all right. F two second break.
50:12So,
50:14number 10.
50:16Do you feel there's a big difference
50:18from the rough mixes you did versus
50:20final mix? Would you have liked to do
50:23the mixing? Yeah. Well, the story is as
50:26follows.
50:28Ride the Lightning is recorded and mixed
50:30by me.
50:32That was also the plan for Master of
50:34Puppets. But once we finished, which was
50:38Christmas, the morning of Christmas Eve
50:41uh
50:42uh 40 years ago, 40 years ago, I was
50:45actually working with Metallica right
50:47now. We were in the studio doing Master
50:49of Puppets. Um,
50:53so Michael Wagner did that and I
50:55actually think he did a excellent job of
50:57that. Um, so I wouldn't change anything
51:02from the mixes of on Master of Puppets.
51:06Uh, and he also said well it was it it
51:09sounded so good that he basically didn't
51:11have a lot to do. So that was that was
51:14kind of good. Um, and then we're at
51:18Injustice for All.
51:20So,
51:22the story about Injustice for All is
51:25that I actually had to turn down doing
51:28it
51:29cuz uh, I was booked. Lars calls me up
51:34in November
51:36of 87 and says, "Hi, Fleming. We're
51:39going we're doing a new album. We booked
51:41the studio. It's Bert Bagarak Studio.
51:43It's in North Hollywood. call
51:44one-on-one. We booked it from January
51:473rd and four months.
51:49And I was like, "Fuck, great." Yeah. Uh,
51:53I can't do that. And he's like, "What?"
51:57And I'm like, "Well, uh, I'm doing this
52:01album with this Danish female singer and
52:03she's pregnant
52:05and actually her her she's doing with
52:08another girl who's pregnant, too. Uh,
52:11and we have to finish this before they
52:13have to go into labor.
52:17So, uh, and I tried to do whatever I
52:20could to move these sessions, but there
52:22was nothing to do. And also, my wife was
52:24pregnant, so I I was going to be a
52:26father myself.
52:28So, uh, I had to say no to doing
52:31Injustice 4.
52:34And, uh, that kind of pissed me off. But
52:38um I mean that's the way it is. When
52:39you're booked, you're booked. You can't
52:41like say no to clients you've already
52:43you've already booked.
52:47And January 3rd comes and they start
52:50recording. They get Mike Clink who had
52:52done Appetite for Destruction. And on
52:55this particular album, they were really
52:57uh they were really digging uh Appetite
53:00for Destruction and they wanted to sound
53:03a bit like that. even though I told Lass
53:06that was a [ __ ] really bad idea.
53:10And uh
53:13they start recording and I I finish my
53:16recordings and do the other sessions I'm
53:19booked into. I mean I I didn't have any
53:22time off till May.
53:25So I wanted to postpone the whole thing
53:27for a month.
53:28But 3 weeks into January, my phone rings
53:32back at home. back. This is back in the
53:34days where mobile phones were
53:35non-existent. So that was my phone at
53:38home. Uh it rings in the middle of the
53:42evening and I'm like, "Who the [ __ ] is
53:44this?" And it's Lars calling from uh
53:47from Los Angeles and he only says this
53:50one line, which is
53:52when can you come?
53:55Cuz they had done [ __ ] all in three
53:58weeks. and and James was getting getting
54:03so frustrated about my clank and the way
54:07he was working. They were still doing
54:10guitar sound and as far as Lars said,
54:14James had hired another guitar player to
54:16play his guitar during the day so they
54:19could so they could do the sound. And
54:22then when he came then he came in at
54:23night and said, "Fuck, it sounds like
54:25shit." And they had to start all over
54:27the next day. So they
54:29So, I I called all my clients and I got
54:33everything moved and I flew out there on
54:35February 14th
54:37and stayed there for the next four and a
54:40half, five months recording it. But that
54:44actually meant that by the time that I
54:46said yes to doing the album and Mike
54:48Clank got fired, they had already hired
54:51Steven Thompson and Michael Barbierro,
54:53which was two hot shot uh Los Angeles
54:56mixing guys to mix the album.
54:59And uh
55:02would I have mixed it differently?
55:06I think you all know the answer to that.
55:10I would have mixed it so you could hear
55:11the bass. Definitely. And there's a I
55:14saw this video online uh a couple of
55:17days ago. There's a video of Stephen
55:19Thompson talking about how that came
55:22about. And he actually says, you know,
55:25they started setting it up and Jason's
55:27bass part was so [ __ ] good and it
55:31totally matched the guitars and it was
55:32fantastic.
55:34And uh Lars and James flies in cuz
55:38they're on tour. And they have
55:40everything set up so they which they
55:42think is pretty damn close to the final
55:44mix. And James comes in and goes, "What
55:47the [ __ ] is that? That's not my guitar
55:48sound." And they start [ __ ] around
55:50with the guitar sound. And once James is
55:52happy, L comes in and he goes,
55:57"This is not my drum sound."
56:00And L had taken a picture of my graphic
56:03EQ, which was a 32 band UR graphic EQ,
56:06or it was actually two of them, one on
56:09each bass drum. And he insisted that
56:12they put that on there again,
56:15not knowing that we'd already recorded
56:17that.
56:19So that's why there's so much high end
56:21on the bass drum. That's because Lars
56:23reintroduced my graphic EQ. So it's
56:26actually on there twice.
56:30And then once he'd gotten the drum sound
56:32he wanted, uh he said, "Take the bass
56:35down so you can just hear it." And they
56:37were like, "What?"
56:39"Yeah, take the bass down so you can
56:40just hear it." And then once they'd done
56:42that, he said, "Yeah, take it another
56:433dbs down." And that's where it stayed.
56:47And yeah, I would have changed that. I
56:49mean, L came and played the mix to me
56:52and I kind of looked down on him and
56:54said, "What the [ __ ] is that?" And he
56:55said, "That's the album." I said, "No,
56:57it's not. You forgot the bass." And he
56:59was like, "No, it's there. It's in the
57:01guitar." Said, "No, it's [ __ ] not."
57:03But they never changed it. And now it's
57:06like, "Well, that's just the way it is."
57:10I mean, I feel an album is a statement
57:12in time. when you release an album, it
57:15shows where you're at as a person or as
57:18and as a band. And um I don't know why
57:22they did that. My guess is that it, you
57:25know, they come back from touring to
57:28listen to the mix and they suddenly
57:30realize that
57:32Cliff is gone.
57:36And that's probably half of the reason.
57:39The other half of the reason I guess is
57:42that the one thing they hated about
57:45Jason was that he was such a big
57:47Metallica fan. So he would just he would
57:50just agree to everything.
57:53So I'm guessing they've done it to piss
57:55Jason off to get a reaction. And when
57:57that reaction never came, they just
57:59went, "Fuck it. We'll just leave it like
58:00that."
58:02But the funny thing is that I read
58:04somewhere recently also that and Justice
58:07Fall is one of the albums in the world
58:10that has inspired most people to make a
58:13band.
58:16So I'm guessing there's a lot of bass
58:17player players want to pro prove Los in
58:21the mix. But yeah, um I would definitely
58:23have mixed Injustice for All
58:26differently. Would I like to remix it
58:28now? No.
58:31Uh it's what 30 something years ago. We
58:37finished the recording in the summer of
58:3988. So that's uh 37 years ago.
58:45And
58:47I mean it's justice is the way injustice
58:51was. And they've done a lot of albums
58:52since and they've done a lot of other
58:54stupid stuff. And that's fine. That's
58:57what you do when you're a human being.
58:59you change your mind and you try new
59:01[ __ ] and some of it work and some of it
59:03doesn't.
59:04So yeah, I would have mixed it very
59:07differently.
59:08If any of you had the luck to buy the uh
59:12the black box that they made of
59:14Injustice, there is a CD4 which is
59:18basically my rough mixers from the
59:20studio while we're doing it. Some of
59:23them has bass on it, some of them
59:25doesn't have bass on it yet because we c
59:28we started recording drums, then we did
59:30rhythm guitars, then we did bass and
59:31vocals and solos. Uh cuz uh I think in
59:35metal it's important to record the
59:37rhythm guitars before you record the
59:39bass because the bass player will always
59:41interpret the guitar riffs.
59:44And in metal music, guitar riffs are the
59:47most important thing. So of course, the
59:50rhythm guitar should play first. they
59:52play the the the riffs the way they're
59:54supposed to be played and then the bass
59:56player can interpret on top of that. But
59:58if you start doing drums then bass then
1:00:01the rhythm guitar player has to
1:00:05sometimes maybe change the way he does
1:00:07it because the bass player did it in a
1:00:08certain way. So we I always do the bass
1:00:10after the rhythm guitars and that meant
1:00:13that Jason's bases on that album are
1:00:16[ __ ] so good. I mean, I know it
1:00:19because I heard him, but yeah, I would
1:00:22uh I would have done it differently.
1:00:26So,
1:00:28number 11.
1:00:32Here we go.
1:00:34How does the room sound compare
1:00:37of the original sweet silence location
1:00:40version versus the current? Okay. Um,
1:00:45now, oh, there's another 11 here. When
1:00:47and how did you hear the Metallica
1:00:49demos? Was it sent to you on mail? Yeah,
1:00:52it was. Back in those days, I got a
1:00:54cassette in the mail because we didn't
1:00:56have we I mean, all of this is done pre-
1:00:58internet. We didn't have smartphones. We
1:01:00didn't have internet. So, I got a mail
1:01:03from from the States with a [ __ ]
1:01:06cassette tape in it with all the songs
1:01:08put in the right sequence.
1:01:11Um,
1:01:14so yeah, that's how I got it. Yeah. And
1:01:17then also in the master it was mentioned
1:01:19that Cliff was homesick. Yeah.
1:01:22James and
1:01:25Cliff was homesick but that I mean
1:01:28he was also bored I think cuz this was
1:01:31the first like really long session that
1:01:34they had done. You have to think that uh
1:01:37Kilimal took a week to record and a week
1:01:40to mix and they weren't there when they
1:01:41mixed it. So that's all they were
1:01:43basically in the studio for a week and
1:01:45on Ride the Lightning we started doing
1:01:47three weeks at night as recording and
1:01:50then they went to England. They were
1:01:52supposed to play a festival and a lot of
1:01:54gigs. Most of that got cancelled so they
1:01:56basically just got drunk with Saxon.
1:02:00Then they came back and we did four or
1:02:01five weeks more and that was a long time
1:02:04for them to be away and Cliff got really
1:02:08homesick. Uh on on Master of Puppets,
1:02:14we actually did a thing where we uh
1:02:18where we uh uh I I called up the record
1:02:21label after we made the deal. They were
1:02:23on major label now. So, we actually did
1:02:27this thing that um because I'd seen how
1:02:30they lived on ride the lightning and
1:02:32they they didn't get good food or
1:02:33anything. Uh so, we'd actually called up
1:02:36the I think it was the management and
1:02:38said, "Okay,
1:02:41we think you should send us a huge pile
1:02:43of money and then we'll buy food and
1:02:46they can come to my house every day and
1:02:49have dinner." And they thought that was
1:02:51a really good idea. So, so on Master of
1:02:53Puppets, every day
1:02:56from the 3rd of September,
1:03:0040 years ago, until the morning of
1:03:02Christmas Eve, Metallica would show up
1:03:06at my house, which was not far from the
1:03:09studio. So, they'd just take a taxi from
1:03:11the hotel,
1:03:13and we would have dinner.
1:03:16And it was me uh and my family, and my
1:03:20sister lived on the first floor. and and
1:03:22she helped cook. So, it was me and my
1:03:24sister's family in my family and then
1:03:27the four guys.
1:03:29And this happened every day for 4
1:03:31months.
1:03:33So they would come to my house at six
1:03:35o'clock.
1:03:38We would uh then once we were done
1:03:40eating, chill in the sofas for a while
1:03:43and then like 10 minutes to 7, we would
1:03:47walk
1:03:49the half a mile or 3/4 mile from where I
1:03:53lived to the studio every [ __ ] day.
1:03:58And nobody gave a [ __ ] because nobody
1:04:00knew who the [ __ ] Metallica was.
1:04:04And then we would be there at 7 and we
1:04:06would start working and we would always
1:04:08work till
1:04:10normally you you say like an 8 hour work
1:04:12shift that's from from 7:00 in the
1:04:14evening till 3:00 in the morning. But
1:04:17for some reason they would always
1:04:21you know if we were done at 3 they would
1:04:23always hang out and hey let's have a
1:04:25beer and blah blah blah. Sometimes we
1:04:26were done at 4:00 sometimes we were done
1:04:28at 5. Sometimes we weren't done till
1:04:30half half past 5. So it was some of the
1:04:32nights were long cuz if we were in the
1:04:34middle of something we'd just carry on
1:04:37and then they they would hang out and
1:04:39then like quarter to 6 for some reason
1:04:41every morning
1:04:43they would uh call a taxi and go to the
1:04:46hotel and I thought it was strange that
1:04:49they always went back at about 6 till I
1:04:52realized that the breakfast buffet at
1:04:54the hotel opened at 6. So they would all
1:04:57go back to the hotel, breakfast buffet,
1:05:00pick out on that, go to sleep, get up,
1:05:04go take a shower, go to my place, have
1:05:07dinner, and we'd start recording it.
1:05:08That that was like that for from Sep
1:05:11September 3rd till Christmas morning,
1:05:141985.
1:05:1740 years ago, I was in the middle of
1:05:19record 40 years ago. I was doing we were
1:05:22recording Master of Puppets.
1:05:25So, uh that actually meant that uh that
1:05:31they got a lot more like social thing
1:05:34going on and also because uh some of
1:05:38sometimes they weren't
1:05:42needed in the studio. They had uh quite
1:05:44a bit more uh time off.
1:05:47But I mean both James Kirk and Cliff got
1:05:51homesick at one point. I remember
1:05:53reading somewhere that Cliff parents
1:05:56sent him uh an airline ticket when we
1:05:58did Ride the Lightning so he could he
1:06:00would actually fly home as the only one.
1:06:01Nobody else, none of the others could
1:06:03afford that. And they were all really
1:06:05envious
1:06:07and they had to write songs and and
1:06:09Cliff wasn't there and he was the one
1:06:11that knew about chords and chord
1:06:13progressions and [ __ ] So yeah,
1:06:17but that was uh so that they they were
1:06:20homesick, but I mean we had a job to do
1:06:24and they were really committed when they
1:06:25were in the studio. So
1:06:30So now comes the one about the room.
1:06:34The room sound compared to the original
1:06:36Sweet Science location. Uh they it's uh
1:06:40they're not even close.
1:06:42The other room was much more live. It
1:06:44was much bigger and uh uh you can't
1:06:49compare it. It was much
1:06:52it had much more reverb. Uh so uh so I
1:06:56had to add some extra re reverb to the
1:06:58room mics on this. So they don't compare
1:07:02at all. Unfortunately, that room doesn't
1:07:04exist anymore. Somebody's got apartments
1:07:06there. There's somebody who has an
1:07:09apartment uh where on the floor in their
1:07:11living room is where Lost recorded Ryan
1:07:13and Master. I'm pretty sure they don't
1:07:16know about that. So,
1:07:19if they do, they would go up in price,
1:07:22I'm sure. But, yeah, that's the way it
1:07:24is. Old industrial sites are being
1:07:26changed into apartments. That's the way
1:07:28it is, unfortunately. But, they don't
1:07:30compare at all. Uh the the old sweet
1:07:33science room was fantastic and I'm
1:07:35probably never going to get a room like
1:07:37that actually for doing when we did
1:07:40Master of Puppets uh they wanted to do
1:07:42that in the States as well. So me and
1:07:44Lars went for like a 12-day studio trip
1:07:48of Los Angeles to find a good drum room
1:07:52and they just couldn't find it. So after
1:07:56two weeks from from we came back uh the
1:07:59band decided to do it in Copenhagen
1:08:01again but the plan was that Master
1:08:04probably should have been recorded in
1:08:05the states.
1:08:07So yeah, that's it. And and that's
1:08:10probably one of the reasons why they got
1:08:11homesick cuz they, you know,
1:08:14but that also uh
1:08:17on Justice, which was in the States, we
1:08:20recorded in LA, but they all lived in
1:08:22San Francisco, but that meant when they
1:08:24had days off, they flew back to San
1:08:25Francisco. They didn't stay in Los
1:08:28Angeles. So
1:08:30yeah. Right. Number 13.
1:08:35The EQ settings on the AIX EQ were set
1:08:37by you or James. They were set by me.
1:08:42Uh but James was playing so he could
1:08:45hear what I was doing. And once I
1:08:47started twiddling that, he went, "Yeah,
1:08:48that's nice." And I went, "Yeah, I
1:08:50know." Um but it was simply because
1:08:55that was uh that started on Master of
1:08:58Puppets. It was because we got those
1:08:59boogie amps
1:09:01and they sounded so so much different
1:09:03from a Marshall. So, I was like, "What
1:09:06the hell?"
1:09:08And to get the sound I wanted, I had to
1:09:10introduce that EQ. But that meant I had
1:09:13to have like a a DI going out of the
1:09:16loop into
1:09:19the Aix EQ there, right down here, by
1:09:21the way. And um then a step down
1:09:25transformer to get it back into uh to
1:09:28the air. So, yeah, that was me.
1:09:33All right, question 14. I think we're
1:09:36getting there, right? What do you enjoy
1:09:38more, live sound or studio recording,
1:09:40producing?
1:09:42Can doing both create a negative impact
1:09:44on my progress? Well, I do both as well.
1:09:48Uh, I for sure enjoy uh live uh studio
1:09:52recordings more than than than doing
1:09:55live [ __ ] It's great doing live [ __ ]
1:09:57but
1:09:59it's it's totally different. And I've
1:10:03always felt I don't want to intrude on
1:10:04on on all the good live engineers, but I
1:10:08do it for some of some of the bands that
1:10:10I'm I know personally
1:10:12and I really love it. And I don't play
1:10:16that loud actually, but it you can
1:10:18always hear the vocal, which is kind of
1:10:19good. And some live engineers just want
1:10:22to play loud. for some uh at one point
1:10:26in Denmark, it was like the the live
1:10:28engineers thought that people were
1:10:29coming to hear them do sound, not to
1:10:31hear what the band was playing. So, I
1:10:34kind of changed that. But if if I had to
1:10:36choose one, it would definitely be
1:10:39uh studio work.
1:10:43So, there you go. That's it.
1:10:48Yeah, that Oh, there's more.
1:10:51You mentioned the Jessica was dialed in
1:10:54in just half a day. Yeah. Yeah, that was
1:10:56pretty quick. Uh
1:10:59and uh yes, I did refer to the Master of
1:11:01Puppets notes. We had more or less the
1:11:03same setup. Uh we had two EQs. So, so it
1:11:09was more or less that and but it was it
1:11:11was a different studio
1:11:14and it was a different desk. I used uh
1:11:16they had an SSL desk, but they had had
1:11:19an old uh neat desk they had as modules.
1:11:22And the first thing I did when I came
1:11:23after my clank was gone was that I took
1:11:26I I ripped down the whole session and
1:11:29started all over. And we all went
1:11:32through and all the guitars went through
1:11:33the knee. The only thing that went
1:11:35through the SSL desk was the bass.
1:11:38Everything else went through the knees.
1:11:41So, uh, yeah, it was pretty fast
1:11:44actually from from they them having
1:11:47spent a month and a half getting a
1:11:48guitar sound. We got that guitar sound
1:11:50in half a day. And James was was really
1:11:54happy. Uh, cuz oh man, he finally got
1:11:57his guitar sound back. And it was kind
1:11:59of strange cuz they were I mean, I'm
1:12:03pretty sure they had that those notes,
1:12:05but Mike Clink just worked in another
1:12:08way. So, yeah.
1:12:11Sorry, I have a question.
1:12:14>> Yeah.
1:12:15>> Uh, about the AEX EQ. Have you tried the
1:12:19puppet master EQ? And if if you know,
1:12:22sorry for my English. I'm from Mexico.
1:12:24If you know that it's so close to your
1:12:27ax or something like that.
1:12:30>> Uh,
1:12:32>> there is a puppet master eq from master
1:12:34effects that it's based. Uh, I haven't
1:12:37tried it, but uh, unfortunately, you
1:12:39know, I've heard about this. Yeah.
1:12:42>> Okay.
1:12:42>> Uh, thank you.
1:12:44>> Puppet. Is it called puppet master EQ?
1:12:48>> Yes. Puppet master EQ.
1:12:50>> Is Should that be a copy of that?
1:12:52>> Yes. It has a low frequency in
1:12:57in boost the mid in cut and high on
1:13:00shelf like
1:13:01>> well we the thing on the other one was
1:13:03you could actually decide whether they
1:13:05should boost or cut so they could do
1:13:08both. They also had a queue like a a
1:13:12width and they had a high cut and a low
1:13:15cut and I'm pretty sure I used most of
1:13:17it. Cool. Next questions.
1:13:20During the recordings of Master Puppet
1:13:21and Injustice World, did the guitar
1:13:23cabinets belong to Metallica or were
1:13:25they rented or borrowed?
1:13:27Uh yeah, the cabinets on uh on on Puppet
1:13:32and Justice were all Metallica's own.
1:13:34They they had so many. We probably
1:13:37swapped them quite a bit, but I remember
1:13:39there being about
1:13:43six or eight
1:13:45cabinets that we kind of swapped back
1:13:47and forth and they all sounded pretty
1:13:50good.
1:13:53So, for the kick resonant head, what are
1:13:57your thoughts on a larger centerported
1:13:59kick drum head like last compared to the
1:14:01more common smaller sideported? Well, we
1:14:05never uh we never put any mics on the
1:14:09front of uh the bass drums. We we only
1:14:13used one inside the the the head. And
1:14:18I'm thinking if you do that and the drum
1:14:21sound we wanted, uh the bigger the hole
1:14:24the better because we didn't want the
1:14:26resonant head to say anything at all. Uh
1:14:29and I mean even on on uh Injustice for
1:14:33all we were using uh Danmar pads to get
1:14:36extra click on the bass drum. So So uh
1:14:42normally I would use uh two mics on a on
1:14:46a kick drum. I would do one inside the
1:14:49side hole and one on the outside. But
1:14:53for Metallica, we only use the inside
1:14:56one. And as you can see in the uh in the
1:15:00in in the master class, we used
1:15:02different mics on different sessions.
1:15:04And the reason why we used RE20s is
1:15:06because that's what you do in America.
1:15:09And they didn't have the AKGs and they
1:15:11sound pretty good, so it's fine. Yeah.
1:15:14Uh, normally I I would
1:15:19depending on what sound you want, but I
1:15:22would normally go for a slightly bigger
1:15:24hole than than what is standard. Now,
1:15:28it's like there's a bit too much
1:15:31resonant and not enough good drummers
1:15:34knows how to tune their bass drum. So,
1:15:37uh, yeah,
1:15:40but that that I would do that today. I
1:15:43would use uh I you use two mics, one on
1:15:46the resonant head and one inside the
1:15:48kick.
1:15:50And then I would actually afterwards in
1:15:52Pro Tools, I would move the one on the
1:15:55resonant head ahead so it starts at the
1:15:59same time as the uh as the one that uh
1:16:02that the kick mic the one inside has.
1:16:05And it's often depending on what s rate
1:16:07you have on it, but it's between uh 25
1:16:10to 50 samples. I I I push it ahead so
1:16:13they actually arrive at the same time.
1:16:15So they're totally 100% in phase.
1:16:19So yeah, that's that's it.
1:16:23Right. 18.
1:16:26Right. The lightning and master puppets
1:16:29have to varying degree a more spacious
1:16:32quality to the sound whereas the
1:16:35adjusted record is much drier. Yeah.
1:16:37Well, that's because of the way it was
1:16:39recorded. Um, we used more room mics on
1:16:43uh on Riot and Master and that's because
1:16:46we had the rooms to do it and the room
1:16:49in uh one-on-one was not as live as the
1:16:53ones we we used for master and and ride.
1:16:56So that's it.
1:16:58Uh I would say that that's mainly the
1:17:02thing. And then uh I used less on the
1:17:07guitar. I used less of the uh DPA 406 in
1:17:12the blend on the guitars
1:17:14because they wanted it drier this time
1:17:17and I thought, "Yeah, let's do that."
1:17:19And also everything just sounds
1:17:21different when you're in another studio.
1:17:23And I I kind of felt it was refreshing
1:17:25to do something new. And um if if you
1:17:29look at the progression from Ride the
1:17:31Lightning to Master of Puppets, I kind
1:17:33of feel that we more or less nailed it
1:17:36on master of puppets. So, I didn't I
1:17:39didn't feel we needed to pursue that
1:17:43direction anymore. I'm more or less
1:17:45thought we nailed that on Master of
1:17:46Puppets and and I welcome the change in
1:17:49sound because uh if if you want to do
1:17:53something that sounds like Master of
1:17:54Puppets, we pretty much did it. So,
1:17:58there's no point in making an album if
1:18:00you already done it. So, so that was
1:18:02also part of the thing.
1:18:05We simply wanted it to sound differently
1:18:09and and that was the reason why they
1:18:10also were so they were so pleased with
1:18:13uh what do they call Guns and Roses was
1:18:16because they sounded so radically
1:18:17different. But Metallica sounding like
1:18:20Guns and Roses was a really bad idea.
1:18:22So, so we can we got the and justice
1:18:25sound going and and as I read somewhere
1:18:29and I said before,
1:18:31we must have done something right. If if
1:18:33if uh Injustice Fall is is the one album
1:18:37that has inspired most people in the
1:18:39world to do their own band, then
1:18:42something must have been right.
1:18:47What unique qualities have you observed
1:18:49in James Headfield's rhythm guitar
1:18:51playing during studio sessions that led
1:18:53you to consider him the best rhythm
1:18:56guitar player in the world? Also, would
1:18:59his right arm ever get fatigued? Uh,
1:19:03well, his precision
1:19:07and his tightness.
1:19:09When we uh when we recorded his guitars,
1:19:12we were always sitting in front of I was
1:19:14sitting in front of the desk. He was
1:19:15standing right behind me cuz then we
1:19:17both had the speakers like pretty damn
1:19:19close. I would had the drums up loud and
1:19:22then just the two the rhythm guitars.
1:19:25And
1:19:28once we started
1:19:31going into record mode, he would play
1:19:34and every time I heard something that
1:19:36was wrong and my hand was on his on the
1:19:38way down to the stop button on the tape
1:19:40recorder, he would have stopped himself
1:19:42because he knew he [ __ ] up.
1:19:45It's his It's his conscious of knowing
1:19:47when it's good and when it's not. And
1:19:50it's his technique. I mean, he's so fast
1:19:52and he's so unbelievably tight. And
1:19:58I haven't in the sessions I've done with
1:20:00him, I haven't ever seen any fatigue in
1:20:02his hands. I've seen it now, but he I
1:20:05mean he's past 60 as well, so that is to
1:20:09be expected, right? I think he's still
1:20:11doing pretty good considering he's 61
1:20:14something.
1:20:15Um, so yeah, I mean, uh, his technique,
1:20:19his speed, his precision,
1:20:23that's I mean, to me, it's it's
1:20:27he he's the best ever. I mean, there's
1:20:30nobody even remotely close to him. And
1:20:34then there might be, but they don't have
1:20:35the uh imagination that James has. So
1:20:40that with his uh sense of musicmanship
1:20:44and you know his his uh songwriting and
1:20:48all that that just it's the full
1:20:49package. He to me he's number one.
1:20:54>> Well I mean can I ask a quick followup?
1:20:56Those are my questions. Can I can I ask
1:20:57a quick follow-up?
1:20:58>> Yeah, sure. on the how much of the sound
1:21:02difference between uh Ry and Master to
1:21:05Injustice was also the drum sound
1:21:08because you said earlier
1:21:10>> it's a huge it's a huge part of it. It's
1:21:13a really big part of it is the drum
1:21:15sound because we didn't have that room
1:21:18and but it is also the guitars. Uh I
1:21:22mean they they started getting Jackson
1:21:24guitars at this point and there's
1:21:27there's a lot of things going on there.
1:21:29pickups gotten better and different and
1:21:31and and all of that. Um, so but guitar
1:21:35sound is slightly different. It's not
1:21:37that big a thing
1:21:40as it was. And we're still we're
1:21:42basically using the same amps and the
1:21:44same mics and the same recording
1:21:46techniques as on mastering puppets. But
1:21:48the drum sounds, I mean, that's that's
1:21:50where it really differs. And that kind
1:21:52of spills off on the rest cuz you you
1:21:56have to think I these are all the all
1:21:59the rhythm guitars and there's at least
1:22:01four to six almost all the time. They're
1:22:04all recorded on one track on a 24 track
1:22:08and the six mics are being mixed
1:22:11while we do it to one track
1:22:15and it's obvious and I've obviously
1:22:18changed the balance on that because I
1:22:20hear a different drum sound.
1:22:23So I I I do the sound so it fits. I mean
1:22:25he was he would play to the track and I
1:22:27would kind of like move it until I
1:22:29thought it sounded good. And it's
1:22:31obvious that when I hear another drum
1:22:33track than on Ryan and Master, I would
1:22:35have also changed the guitar sound. So,
1:22:38I'm probably thinking it's a lot due to
1:22:41the drum sound, but the drum sound has
1:22:43affected me to change probably the blend
1:22:46of some of the mics on Injustice as
1:22:48well.
1:22:50And that's why it's so difficult to
1:22:52recreate because there's I mean, you
1:22:54have six mics to choose from in a
1:22:56balance that should end on one track.
1:22:59And we did that four to eight times on
1:23:01all the songs, right? So, there's a lot
1:23:04of variables. Plus, I don't know what
1:23:07the [ __ ] they did when they mixed
1:23:08because I wasn't there.
1:23:11>> If a band wanted that am more of that
1:23:14ambient drum sound
1:23:16>> uh working with you, how how would you
1:23:18get close to that with the setup you
1:23:19have now? But it would be tougher.
1:23:22Yeah, I would put more room mics up
1:23:25>> simply if I and I would probably strip
1:23:28some of the walls so they didn't have
1:23:30pictures hanging on them and and stuff.
1:23:33Yeah, I have like a brick bag wall so
1:23:35that'll help a lot.
1:23:37So yeah, I mean but it it ma mainly
1:23:41comes down to size.
1:23:44It was a bit higher and a bit wider and
1:23:46a bit longer. So and that all adds up in
1:23:49reverb, right? So, but I would be able
1:23:53to do it here. It would sound almost the
1:23:56same. And then if you add a bit of
1:23:58artificial reverb when you mix snow,
1:24:01nobody's going to hear the difference,
1:24:03especially because they heard it on 99
1:24:05uh sent Apple iPhones, right?
1:24:10So,
1:24:13>> hey Plumbing, real quick. Um, talk about
1:24:15guitars and how many tracks and stuff.
1:24:17Uh, how many DP how much of a dB
1:24:20difference do you think there is between
1:24:21instruments like what the guitars are
1:24:23running compared to what the the drums
1:24:26just in a rough idea
1:24:29>> in in terms of how loud they are?
1:24:32>> Yes, sir.
1:24:34>> Uh, are you think of the blend of I mean
1:24:36just compared to the drums?
1:24:39>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like say uh I'm
1:24:41just throwing numbers out there. Like
1:24:42saying you're running the guitars at
1:24:43zero dB, the drums would be at negative
1:24:453dB. like what's that difference between
1:24:49and I know they're all a little bit
1:24:50different but
1:24:51>> I have this uh I have this thing that I
1:24:54always record as loud as possible
1:24:58>> cuz cuz I mean if you're recording
1:25:00digital and you're at like minus 20 dB
1:25:02you're basically using a six bit
1:25:04recording right so I always go as close
1:25:07to zero when I record as possible and I
1:25:10actually also did that on analog uh and
1:25:14sometimes I would actually press both
1:25:18the guitars and the drums to get like
1:25:20tape compression
1:25:22and that also has a say when when you
1:25:25record. So I would I would sometimes
1:25:27bend the needles on my tape machine cuz
1:25:30you know it would just [ __ ] go all
1:25:32the way up. But it was adjusted in a
1:25:35sense that I could actually put plus 20
1:25:37on there and it wouldn't distort.
1:25:40And that's because I spent time
1:25:41adjusting it and making sure, you know,
1:25:43that
1:25:45this would come back
1:25:48tape compression but not distorted.
1:25:51So yeah, I and I use that a lot as part
1:25:54of my arsenal of getting sounds.
1:25:58But my philosophy is always I want to be
1:26:00as close to zero as possible without
1:26:03going over.
1:26:05>> Okay.
1:26:06cuz that way you use the whole bandwidth
1:26:09more or less. It's like it's like you
1:26:11know if you have this this much dynamic
1:26:14headroom you should be up there because
1:26:16your noise flow is going to be like
1:26:18gone.
1:26:19And also especially on analog tape cuz
1:26:22you know once you introduce 12 tracks
1:26:25the the hiss is going to build up like
1:26:28ridiculously
1:26:30and then if you start compressing that
1:26:32it's going to sound like uh the ocean
1:26:34right. So, so yeah, I mean I always
1:26:36record it as as loud as possible and
1:26:38sometimes I even recorded it way above
1:26:42to get to get the tape to get me that
1:26:45compression that I wanted cuz I knew
1:26:48that a tape would do that. And you you'd
1:26:50only know that once you've done it a
1:26:52couple of times and knew how how hard
1:26:55you can push a tape before it started
1:26:57sounding like [ __ ] And there was a very
1:27:00fine line there because you know with
1:27:03digital it's it's very simple. Don't go
1:27:05over zero ever. But on analog tape plus
1:27:094 plus 8 sometimes plus 12. The LRA tape
1:27:13machines could handle plus 24 dB
1:27:17without before the electronics started
1:27:19distorting.
1:27:21And that was the same with the Trident
1:27:22desk. It has had plus 26 dBs out before
1:27:26it distorted.
1:27:28So that meant you could push it
1:27:32and that is part of the sound
1:27:36and and it's something that you need to
1:27:39work on every day more or less. You need
1:27:41to be in that analog realm to be able to
1:27:44do that
1:27:46because just doing it is not always
1:27:48good. It you have to do it on the right
1:27:51things and in the right spots.
1:27:54But once once you get I mean once you
1:27:56get that and I I'd done nothing but
1:27:58that. So I was like totally you know
1:28:00that was totally second nature to me and
1:28:03then by 89 we got the first digital
1:28:06recorder. We got a Mitsubishi X850 32
1:28:09track. Then it was a totally different
1:28:11world.
1:28:12So yeah
1:28:16>> I have a question. Can I ask you?
1:28:18>> Yes. Yeah sure. So, it's kind of
1:28:20strange, but um it's not about
1:28:23Metallica. It's um Did you ever hear uh
1:28:26Kendall Mass Epicus Dumikus Metallicus
1:28:29album? And did you ever met uh Ragna
1:28:32Valkquist, the producer? And any any
1:28:36thoughts of his production if you
1:28:38>> I have no I've never heard any of that,
1:28:41so I can't I can't elaborate on that. Um
1:28:44>> Okay. I I hear very little music apart
1:28:47from what I do because I I do this for
1:28:50eight hours at 10 hours a day and then
1:28:52when I come home I turn my stereo off.
1:28:55It's like so uh but I mean I could
1:28:59obviously sit down and hear that but I
1:29:01it's not a thing I' I know any anything
1:29:03about there's a lot of really good metal
1:29:07bands out there that I never heard
1:29:09because I've been so busy with the bands
1:29:11I've been working with. And it's not
1:29:14because I probably didn't don't like it
1:29:15or anything. It's just I haven't I mean
1:29:18there's only so many hours in a day that
1:29:20I I can't when I come home I don't want
1:29:23to put on 10 metal albums cuz I'm kind
1:29:26of fed up with with that.
1:29:29>> Yeah. I I I tend to understand you uh
1:29:33quite a bit. So
1:29:36>> So yeah. So
1:29:36>> another thing, do you know the brand
1:29:39Hagstrom for
1:29:41>> Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:29:42Yeah,
1:29:43>> for mixers.
1:29:44>> No, I know it for from they had a shop
1:29:48in Denmark. They actually the the harm
1:29:51retailers was like uh 200 mters from the
1:29:54studio and I know a guy in a Danish band
1:29:59called Black Sun, which is like pretty
1:30:02[ __ ] huge here. He had a haste on
1:30:05guitar and it could it had like an onoff
1:30:07switch on the pickups which he used all
1:30:09the time which was fantastic.
1:30:11You know, I'm interested um in like the
1:30:16comparison between the Hackrom console
1:30:18with another one like SSL API or or NE.
1:30:22>> I haven't I haven't read up and I
1:30:24haven't seen the history thing. Are they
1:30:26still active?
1:30:28>> Uh I think no.
1:30:30>> No. Okay. Yeah, cuz I kind of think that
1:30:32that must be
1:30:33>> maybe in London. I I think
1:30:36>> Yeah. Um I mean it it was a Swedish
1:30:39company, so I don't know. But Yeah. No,
1:30:41I I don't know anything about the mixer,
1:30:43but I mean, most mixers from back in the
1:30:45days are way better than what you can
1:30:47get today. I have like a crappy 12
1:30:50channel uh uh pair Allen and Heath mixer
1:30:54that sounds absolutely [ __ ]
1:30:56fantastic. And it's like a crap crappy
1:30:5912 in, two out that I've kind of
1:31:02rewamped. So, it's got, you know, so I
1:31:04can use the mic pres so it's 12 in, 12
1:31:07out. But I mean stuff like that.
1:31:11>> Okay. Thank you.
1:31:12>> Yeah, it's probably good.
1:31:14>> Hi Fleming. I hope you don't mind. I
1:31:16wanted to ask you about multimiking
1:31:18guitar cabs.
1:31:19>> Yeah.
1:31:21>> The concept I've seen a lot of people
1:31:23kind of debating to to either simplify
1:31:25with the SM57s or to experiment with
1:31:27different types. So across two guitar
1:31:29cabs, for example, in my mixes, I've
1:31:32tend to record 10 mics per guitar track
1:31:37>> with some face correction as well. But
1:31:40what are I wanted to know specifically
1:31:41your thoughts on on that kind of
1:31:43recording technique and spec more
1:31:45specifically also these plugins that are
1:31:48introduced like auto align where they do
1:31:50the phase correction where before
1:31:51obviously you'll have to check your
1:31:53phase but then afterwards to talk
1:31:56>> I I think the auto align is probably a
1:31:59pretty good plugin. I just I'm I'm such
1:32:01a control freak that I prefer to do it
1:32:04myself. So I simply zoom out on the
1:32:07files. So, and then I find a point and
1:32:10they have to start at at the same point
1:32:12there. Um, again, I mean, I'm pretty
1:32:16sure it it it's it's better than not
1:32:19using these auto aligns. I think the
1:32:21auto align is actually pretty good. And
1:32:24I haven't tried it, but I'm guessing
1:32:28that it's better than not using it cuz
1:32:31any anything with phase, I mean, you can
1:32:33get [ __ ] serious problem, especially
1:32:36especially because vinyl is a big thing
1:32:38again and you can't do out of phase on
1:32:41vinyl.
1:32:43So, so yeah, I mean I would never record
1:32:46a guitar on more than four tracks and
1:32:51the two two of the tracks would be like
1:32:53stereo room mic and then two on the cab.
1:32:56But I mean, you can seriously get face
1:33:00problems if if you got 10 mics on a cab,
1:33:03then you have all options open.
1:33:06I I would probably go for finding the
1:33:09sound that I wanted and then printing
1:33:12that. I'm not much of a we'll fix it in
1:33:15the mix guy because your mixes
1:33:18I mean if you do four guitars you're
1:33:19already up to 40 tracks.
1:33:24>> So, so, so do you have like huge
1:33:26sessions?
1:33:27>> Oh, yeah. Massive. And like it it works
1:33:29sometimes for clean guitars, but then it
1:33:31gets this kind of chorusy vibe for the
1:33:33heavy guitar tones and stuff for
1:33:35majority of it. It's because of the in
1:33:38the age of digital amps and everything,
1:33:40we kind of do it for some kind of a
1:33:42unique kind of aspect of it because
1:33:44everyone else is just using ampsims and
1:33:46digital amps. So
1:33:48>> combinations of you know SM57s room mics
1:33:51as well like you mentioned but
1:33:54>> a lot of we face a lot of phase issues
1:33:56and just we have a completely different
1:33:58session specifically for the guitars. So
1:34:01uh yeah with the digital age I think
1:34:03that there there's more flexibility but
1:34:05honestly see seeing your master class
1:34:07and seeing how they you've explained
1:34:09about fixing it before the mix rather
1:34:11than
1:34:12>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:34:13>> saves a lot of effort and a lot of time.
1:34:16>> Yeah. Exactly.
1:34:18Uh yeah, I understand that. Yeah. But
1:34:21exciting. Uh Wow, man. What a get a
1:34:25mixing session with [ __ ] 200 guitar
1:34:28tracks. Holy [ __ ] I'll probably go,
1:34:30don't want that. Don't want that. Oh,
1:34:32that's good. Don't want that. Don't want
1:34:34that.
1:34:35>> I'd love to send you some of the tracks.
1:34:36And if you think if you think that it's
1:34:38like, yeah, it's a little bit phasy,
1:34:39bro. Don't Don't do that.
1:34:41>> Okay. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do it.
1:34:43Please do. That could be fun. All right.
1:34:45I'll go to question number 20 here,
1:34:48which is kind actually. How hard do you
1:34:51like to hit mic preamps?
1:34:54Is it a bit harder for bass and
1:34:57distorted guitars and cleaner for clean
1:34:58guitars and soft vocals? Yes, it is. Um,
1:35:03I actually depending on what I'm doing
1:35:10and what music it is. Uh, and that's
1:35:13that is especially on the Trident desk.
1:35:16You could actually like distort the the
1:35:20mic the mic gain uh the mic input and
1:35:23then just take the volume out sending it
1:35:26to a track. And you can do that on the
1:35:28new knives. I have over here I have like
1:35:31uh the uh 1073s.
1:35:34They actually have an output level after
1:35:36the mic input stage.
1:35:39And depending on what it is, yeah, soft
1:35:42vocals. I've done vocals that I've
1:35:44distorted on the way in because I like
1:35:47that sound for that particular song. It
1:35:50is something you have to be really
1:35:52careful about.
1:35:54But I like uh I like for my mic preamps
1:35:58to actually work and do something cuz I
1:36:02I have this this feeling
1:36:06uh that they they actually help me in
1:36:08getting my sound
1:36:11and and I find it easier than than if
1:36:14you have something that's totally clean.
1:36:16Obviously, for clean guitars and
1:36:18acoustic, you don't want to distort
1:36:20that. Uh, but still, uh,
1:36:24I run them pretty hot, as I said before.
1:36:28Uh, I run everything as close to zero as
1:36:31possible because that gives me the best
1:36:33signal to noise ratio. And also, I mean,
1:36:37if you if you run digital very low,
1:36:39you're basically down to 68 bits. I
1:36:41mean, what the [ __ ] do you need a a
1:36:4432bit floating for? Actually, my setup
1:36:48in this studio is so that uh from my mic
1:36:52inputs to my mic preamps, I have a jack
1:36:55bay. So, okay, I can actually patch
1:37:00my microphone into the mic preamp I
1:37:02want. And I actually use that sometimes
1:37:06because I know that my kick sounds
1:37:08better in the Trident than it does in
1:37:10the Focus, right? And sometimes I use
1:37:13the Neve. So, I actually use my choice
1:37:17of preamp as as an asset for my
1:37:20sessions. So, that's that's that's
1:37:24that
1:37:2721.
1:37:28>> Yeah, these are the last sets of
1:37:30questions.
1:37:31>> I know. What are the best way to get
1:37:32closer to the sound of analog tape
1:37:34recording when producing digital?
1:37:38Uh, use as many analog things as
1:37:40possible. I mean, my whole chain is
1:37:43analog till I hit the Pro Tools
1:37:47and I kind of feel that that is analog
1:37:50enough for me and then I get the freedom
1:37:53to do all the edits and all the other
1:37:55[ __ ] I want to do in ProTools. And then
1:37:57when I mix, I mix totally in the box uh
1:38:01because I like the sound of that. But as
1:38:03I said before, uh you can use some of
1:38:06those tape emulations, but my I I I I
1:38:10use a lot of compression and stuff on
1:38:12the way in EQs, graphic EQs, whatever to
1:38:16get the sound I want. I have uh 107
1:38:21uh 1176s from Uray and I have DBXs. I
1:38:24have all these different machines that I
1:38:26constantly use
1:38:29and it's just
1:38:33don't make it too difficult.
1:38:36Like the as as that guy before that used
1:38:3810 10 tracks to record his guitar,
1:38:42maybe one mic in the right position
1:38:44would do the job. You never know. But,
1:38:47you know,
1:38:48so yeah,
1:38:51I would do that. do it the way I do it
1:38:53as analog as possible all the way till
1:38:55you hit Pro Tools
1:38:58and and that also could come down to uh
1:39:03uh choosing what mic preamp you want to
1:39:05use and maybe get slight saturation from
1:39:08like driving that a little bit hot and
1:39:10everything. So yeah,
1:39:14I would do it like that.
1:39:17So, last question
1:39:21for Injustice World. Do you recall any
1:39:23unique drum dampening techniques used? I
1:39:26heard a rumor long ago that there was a
1:39:28small towel taped to the snare top head
1:39:30and draped over to get that very tight
1:39:33and dry sound. Yeah. Well, we that that
1:39:35was that was a thing you did back in the
1:39:37day to get that really dry sound. I've
1:39:39had a lot a lot of drum sessions where
1:39:42you actually put a towel all the way on
1:39:44top of the drum. There wasn't any
1:39:48there might have been a part of a towel
1:39:50there and that was to get rid of a ring
1:39:52in the snare.
1:39:54Um I don't remember. I can look at some
1:39:56pictures maybe see if I can see if
1:39:58there's anything there but that could
1:40:00have very well been possible. I mean,
1:40:02Lars had had a really good drum roll, a
1:40:05guy called Fleming Larsson, als known as
1:40:08Jake, and he more or less kind of made
1:40:11sure that the drum tuned the way that
1:40:14was supposed to. So, every time we
1:40:16changed a head on on the drums, he would
1:40:19make sure that it sounded exactly like
1:40:21the recording. And and that was a big
1:40:23part of getting that drum sound. Um, and
1:40:27because it was recorded in another room,
1:40:29it just got tighter and and we didn't
1:40:31want that huge
1:40:34like ruby snare on Injustice, it was
1:40:38more in your face. And we kind of worked
1:40:40on that a bit. It took us a day, I
1:40:43guess, to do the drum sound. Uh, and um,
1:40:47yeah, there was a lot of that stuff
1:40:48going on. And
1:40:53there might have been a small towel.
1:40:55Yeah, we could have done that. That was
1:40:58one of the ways to dampen it. Now you
1:40:59have all these this moon gel and I don't
1:41:01know what to to dampen snack in those
1:41:04days. A towel would would come in very
1:41:06handy.
1:41:08So yeah, uh it's very possible. I I
1:41:11simply can't remember, but now now that
1:41:14I read it, I kind of remember that there
1:41:16was a bit there. So that might be
1:41:18possible. It was either that or gaffer
1:41:22tape and lots of it to make sure to get
1:41:25rid of the ring.
1:41:27So,
1:41:29and we can't ask Jake cuz he's not here
1:41:31anymore.
1:41:32He passed on.
1:41:36>> Can I can can I ask
1:41:38>> Yeah, cuz we're we're basically done
1:41:40with the question. So, yeah, ask.
1:41:42>> So, I know that you mixed uh the album
1:41:46Covenant for Morbid Angel. Is that
1:41:48correct? Yeah.
1:41:50>> Can you give us some technical insight
1:41:53on that? Did you ever spoke with Scott
1:41:56Burns or anything?
1:41:58>> No, never.
1:42:00Uh, we recorded that in uh Tampa in
1:42:04Morristown. So, that was with Tom Morris
1:42:06and uh uh and and that was all recorded
1:42:10there on
1:42:14>> I think it was the Otter uh MTR90.
1:42:18It was probably Yeah, it was probably
1:42:20analog tape. Yeah, I remember they were
1:42:23>> Yeah, they used the Sound Workshop
1:42:24series 34 for the the console.
1:42:29>> I think it was an SSL. I'm pretty sure.
1:42:32>> Yeah, yeah, 93 they had SSL G.
1:42:36>> Yeah, it was G.
1:42:37>> So So it was an SSL. And I've never
1:42:39really been an SSL fan, but I've
1:42:42actually grown on me here later in in my
1:42:45age. I kind of know how to work around
1:42:47them. But uh we recorded all that and I
1:42:50remember doing uh I did uh room mics and
1:42:53they went why do you do that? Because
1:42:55you cuz uh it was sandal on drums,
1:42:58right? And he had triggers on all the
1:43:00drums. So we
1:43:03what we did was in the beginning of the
1:43:06session we actually had him hit his
1:43:08kicks play something slow where he hit
1:43:11the kicks really hard and I actually
1:43:14sampled those kicks so it's his own kick
1:43:17sound
1:43:18and then I compressed the [ __ ] out of
1:43:21the room mics cuz he he actually played
1:43:24really quiet because it was so fast. So
1:43:27I had to Yeah. because it he had, you
1:43:30know, double bass drums with triggers
1:43:31and the snare.
1:43:32>> And I'm a drummer, so I understand
1:43:34everything.
1:43:35>> All of that [ __ ] MIDI trick into a I
1:43:38think it was a cakewalk MIDI system that
1:43:41tricked all of my samplers. And uh we
1:43:45used
1:43:48we probably used some TC 20
1:43:51>> 2290
1:43:52>> 2290 to do the bass drum tricking
1:43:55>> and whatever we did for the snare. I
1:43:57can't remember. But that again, we used
1:44:00his own sound as the trigger sound.
1:44:04So, and that was all mixed uh in Sweet
1:44:07Son Studios in here in Copenhagen on my
1:44:10ne 72 channel VR.
1:44:14So, that's all mixed on a ne.
1:44:16>> So, it's recorded with the SSL and mixed
1:44:18on the Neve.
1:44:19>> Yeah, exactly. And that's actually
1:44:21really good that you get two different
1:44:23preamps on top of each other. that
1:44:25always kind of widens the spectrum of
1:44:28the sound. And it was pretty easy peasy
1:44:31to mix it there. We were I mean we were
1:44:34we knew we knew what we wanted and and I
1:44:36kind of just set it up and then went,
1:44:38"Wow, that sounds good." I went, "Yeah,
1:44:40yeah, I think so."
1:44:40>> What about the guitars that you can hear
1:44:43like these huge guitars? Were they quad
1:44:46tracked with your your typical DPA uh
1:44:50tube mic?
1:44:51>> Yeah. Yeah, that was more or less the
1:44:53same thing. Yeah. Uh, I think we did.
1:44:56And I mean, Trey is a [ __ ] really
1:44:59good guitar player. So, I mean, he I
1:45:02mean, even when he was not playing, he
1:45:04was carrying his guitar and a pair of
1:45:05headphones with a with a small amp. So,
1:45:07so he was playing all the time. That was
1:45:09[ __ ] totally annoying. But, but I
1:45:12mean, yeah, we did that a lot of times.
1:45:14And all of that is recorded in Tampa.
1:45:17So, we did all the recordings in Tampa.
1:45:19And once we were done, I flew home. And
1:45:21then they came with the tapes to
1:45:24Copenhagen and I mixed it on on
1:45:27VR and that was tracked with four
1:45:31guitars. Were there four guitars or two?
1:45:34>> I think there was probably at least four
1:45:37guitars.
1:45:39Could have been more.
1:45:42I need to look at the track sheets
1:45:44before. And I don't know who has the
1:45:46tapes.
1:45:48I don't really talk to their management
1:45:50anymore because they owe me a lot of
1:45:51money.
1:45:54>> But I mean
1:45:56mixed
1:45:57>> I never got any royalties on that at
1:45:59all. Even though it's the most selling
1:46:01death metal album in the world, they
1:46:03never paid me a scent.
1:46:04>> Wow.
1:46:05>> Yeah.
1:46:07>> Thank you so much for for this.
1:46:10>> Yeah. Cool.
1:46:11>> Should I?
1:46:13>> Yeah, sure.
1:46:13>> I have a question, too. I don't know.
1:46:15>> Yeah, fine.
1:46:17Yeah, sorry. Okay. Uh um uh on the album
1:46:21on the right, the lightning, I got the
1:46:23green one, the French one.
1:46:24>> Oh, great. You
1:46:26>> I'm a lucky guy. Uh you basically you
1:46:30recorded the recorded produced mixed the
1:46:33album, but it's written produced by
1:46:36Metallica and you just assisted by
1:46:38Flaming Rasputin and Mutaka. So two
1:46:41question in one. Uh can you talk uh a
1:46:44little bit about Makaker because nobody
1:46:46mentioned him anywhere say it's just
1:46:49written there's just two photograph of
1:46:50him during the radio acting session and
1:46:54what are your feelings about it because
1:46:56uh obviously the band didn't produce
1:46:58[ __ ] at the time they just didn't know
1:47:01how to produce
1:47:02>> only because uh they were on that small
1:47:06independent label and I never got a
1:47:08contract so
1:47:10>> uh and that's why when we did when we
1:47:13were doing Master of Puppets, I was
1:47:14like, I want royalties. I want this. I
1:47:17want that. And I was like, okay. So, uh,
1:47:20yeah. I mean, but I I did just as they
1:47:22should actually pay me for royalties for
1:47:24that, but you know,
1:47:27>> I'm guessing that will probably not
1:47:28happen the first 15 minutes. So, there
1:47:31you go. But yeah, no, I mean, uh, Master
1:47:33and Riot just as total same way we did
1:47:37it. I just didn't get recognized for
1:47:40what I did till on Master of Puppets.
1:47:42But they knew that obviously that
1:47:45>> that they couldn't have done that album
1:47:46without me.
1:47:48>> But who who was the other guy?
1:47:50>> Mark Whitaker.
1:47:52>> No. Oh, Mark Whitaker. Yeah, he was
1:47:54there.
1:47:56>> I mean, he didn't do anything on R the
1:47:58L. He might have been there in the
1:48:01beginning. Yeah,
1:48:03>> he was he did their
1:48:07>> was he like working with the band and he
1:48:10wasn't doing live sound.
1:48:12>> He was doing the live sound at the time,
1:48:14>> was he? Okay, that was before Big M
1:48:16then. Uh I don't know why he was
1:48:19probably supposed to be the producer and
1:48:22he was probably there because uh I know
1:48:26he was there in the beginning. I was
1:48:27like what what is he doing? He didn't do
1:48:29anything
1:48:31and and he ne I don't went they were
1:48:34there for three weeks then they went
1:48:35away then they came back and I don't
1:48:37think he came back
1:48:39uh or for the second tour I can't
1:48:41remember but he was there I think he was
1:48:44supposed to be their their producer or
1:48:48their guy but I mean they their
1:48:50confidence in in me was so big that I
1:48:53mean they never I mean he he wasn't even
1:48:56in the picture for Master of Puppets cuz
1:48:58They could see that I'd done all the
1:48:59work. So he was like, "See you." I think
1:49:01he does the 599 EP. He records that
1:49:05>> in Yeah, I think he does that.
1:49:07>> Yeah.
1:49:08>> Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even know he was
1:49:10mentioned.
1:49:11>> Yeah. It's in the credits, you know.
1:49:13It's So it's
1:49:15>> Oh, down there. Yeah. Cuz on the back it
1:49:17doesn't say anything.
1:49:18>> Yeah.
1:49:19>> Yeah. Okay. Cool.
1:49:20>> I got just another question. It's it's
1:49:23about regulating. Uh there's a story
1:49:25about the anvil for for whom the bell to
1:49:28hold but
1:49:29>> it's not on for whom the bell to hold.
1:49:31It's on escape.
1:49:32>> It's not escape. Okay, that was my
1:49:34question because
1:49:34>> it's the C part in escape.
1:49:37>> Okay.
1:49:38>> Lawrence had this idea that that uh it
1:49:41would be great with an anvil
1:49:44and it was I mean it was about 150 kilos
1:49:47and the studio was in the first floor.
1:49:48We had to carry that [ __ ] all the way
1:49:50up. And and we put it on the back
1:49:53stairs, which was like a a concrete
1:49:56stair going down from the studio cuz it
1:49:58had like a really good short very loud
1:50:01reverb. And we set him out there and he
1:50:03had to [ __ ] hit that bang that thing.
1:50:08Thing is, he's a drummer.
1:50:11So when you hit a thing like that, you
1:50:12always do it on two and four. And if you
1:50:14listen to the album, it has to be on one
1:50:16and three.
1:50:17So yeah, I'm pretty sure it ended up
1:50:20with me doing it.
1:50:23>> So I got a last question. Uh we can see
1:50:26there's you know the only photograph of
1:50:28the recording amp or for the lightning
1:50:32and there's like bunch of pedals.
1:50:34There's an stereo box that uh I think
1:50:37was used to just double use.
1:50:40>> Yeah. Yeah. It's just the caps. Yeah.
1:50:42Exactly. From you know go to two amps.
1:50:46>> Yeah. We never we never used the stereo
1:50:48box. It was never on.
1:50:50>> Okay. And there's also two TC
1:50:51electronics parametrical EQ in a pedal
1:50:54format.
1:50:55>> Yeah.
1:50:55>> So, did you use it on ride lighting or
1:50:58just
1:50:58>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
1:50:59Yeah. Yeah.
1:51:00>> I mean, they were probably set for
1:51:02something and then I started [ __ ]
1:51:04with the amps. The thing was that uh on
1:51:07Right the Lightning J they had gotten
1:51:09all their equipment stolen.
1:51:12So James James had the Marshall amp he
1:51:15was really happy about and cuz it'd been
1:51:18modified and nobody had written down
1:51:19what the modifications were.
1:51:22So uh so actually when they started
1:51:25Right the Lightning I actually called
1:51:28Hank Sherman, Michael Denner and all the
1:51:30guys from Artillery. Uh so I actually
1:51:33because we needed to find an amp for
1:51:36James. So, I think there was like 10 or
1:51:3812 Marshall stacks in the studio when
1:51:40they arrived. And James simply tried
1:51:42them all and found one he liked. And and
1:51:46this I'm not sure, but Hank Sherman from
1:51:49Merciful Fate says that right the
1:51:51lightning is recorded on his 100 watt
1:51:54JCM amp.
1:51:58>> There's lot of sources. I've read a lot
1:52:01about it.
1:52:01>> Exactly. Right.
1:52:02>> Yeah.
1:52:02>> Back in those days, we didn't take
1:52:04pictures. It were like it was like an
1:52:06intrusion of our privacy
1:52:08>> cuz we should have taken tons of
1:52:10pictures then because life would have
1:52:11been much easier now but we didn't.
1:52:14>> Okay. Thank you Framing. Thanks a lot.
1:52:17>> I'm going to get in here. So, uh I
1:52:19mentioned that you mentioned that you
1:52:21like to hear air moving when you record
1:52:23an amplifier.
1:52:24>> Yeah.
1:52:25>> U lately I've I've noticed how I used to
1:52:28enjoy these plugins like Bias Effects
1:52:30and Neural DSP and I just can't anymore.
1:52:32It just sounds like kind of thin to me.
1:52:34Like is that what you experience when
1:52:35you hear it?
1:52:36>> Yeah. What happens when you do all these
1:52:38uh amp simulations and stuff once you
1:52:41start stacking them they kind of get
1:52:42smaller and smaller. I I can't explain
1:52:46why but the simple fact that you know
1:52:49sound is air moving is I want that. I
1:52:52want to capture that and and it it makes
1:52:55a difference to me. I did an album with
1:52:58Monty Pitman who plays for Testament and
1:53:01used to play guitar for Madonna and he
1:53:04had like an axe too and he wanted to use
1:53:06that because he had some Metallica
1:53:08master puppet sounds in there. And we
1:53:12did take the uh the the the XLRDI out
1:53:16and recorded that. But I also took two
1:53:20jacks out of it and put stuck them into
1:53:23a Marshall stack and an orange stack.
1:53:26And once we mixed the Marshall stack and
1:53:29the orange stack, [ __ ] way out
1:53:31competed the uh the X stereo thing. Uh
1:53:36so so you can use the cambers there. I
1:53:40mean it's all good, but please just
1:53:43stick one cap up and put a mic in front
1:53:46of it. It'll you'll be so happy when you
1:53:48mix.
1:53:50>> Interesting.
1:53:51>> And maybe just one more followup is uh
1:53:54how
1:53:55>> have you noticed your ear evolves over
1:53:57time? Like what have you noticed in
1:53:59regards to that?
1:54:01>> Um
1:54:04well that's that's mainly because the
1:54:06recording industry has changed and the
1:54:08way we do things with with computers and
1:54:11everything. But I mean, I more or less
1:54:14do what I've always done. It's it's I
1:54:18get better mics. I get better recording
1:54:21equipment. I get better mic preamps.
1:54:25But basically, I still I have this sound
1:54:28in my head how things are supposed to
1:54:30sound. And I try to get there all the
1:54:33time. I I when I hear hear music, I see
1:54:36pictures.
1:54:37So, I want this I I have this picture I
1:54:40want to see. I saw it once when we did
1:54:43Master of Puppets. That was [ __ ]
1:54:44fantastic.
1:54:47And and uh yeah, well to me uh not two
1:54:51days are the same. What worked yesterday
1:54:53might not work today cuz I I don't know
1:54:57what it is and why it does that. The amp
1:54:59and the mic and the setup that sounded
1:55:01good yesterday could sound terrible
1:55:04tomorrow. And and sometimes it's just
1:55:06moving the mic like slightly,
1:55:10but everything changes. You can't I
1:55:13mean, you can't do the same thing two
1:55:15days in a row. I've noticed, for
1:55:17instance, if you do like a band session
1:55:20with a drum kit, once the drum kit has
1:55:23been sitting in the studio for a day, it
1:55:25starts sounding good. It's got something
1:55:28to do with humidity and the air, and
1:55:30there's so much crazy [ __ ] going on
1:55:33there. And I'm sure there's somebody who
1:55:35can figure it out, but I mean it's it's
1:55:39better just experiencing it and then
1:55:42just going with it until you get the
1:55:44sound you want. So yeah, I mean my job
1:55:47has basically been the same for like
1:55:49almost 50 years now.
1:55:52>> I'm glad you said that. That confirms
1:55:54that I'm not crazy about that. What
1:55:57sounds good today might not sound good
1:55:58tomorrow.
1:55:59>> Yeah, exactly. It's crazy, isn't it?
1:56:02Fleming, I I have a question about the
1:56:04rhythm guitars on Injustice for All.
1:56:07>> Yeah.
1:56:08>> So, from Harvester of Sorrow all the way
1:56:11to Dire's Eve, there are notes for Mesa
1:56:14Boogie Power Amp. Can we assume that
1:56:16they were used on all of the songs?
1:56:18>> Yeah.
1:56:19>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz what I've written
1:56:21because not all the pages are there and
1:56:23what's written on some of the pages are
1:56:26else dive or else this. And then if
1:56:29there's any changes, I wrote that down
1:56:32because it was it was a hell of a job
1:56:33documenting all that. And and already we
1:56:37used the SSL which had like a computer.
1:56:39So so you know, so a lot of it was
1:56:42written in the computer and we can't see
1:56:44that today unfortunately. You you start
1:56:47using these systems that that doesn't
1:56:49work over time, which is a pain in the
1:56:51ass, but that's what happens sometimes.
1:56:55Uh but yeah, I mean it was it was used
1:56:58on all of them. Kirk used the ADA and
1:57:01then went into the power amp and out
1:57:02through uh the speakers cuz Kirk used
1:57:06the ADA as a preamp and then he used but
1:57:09he only did that on solos.
1:57:11>> Yeah. So uh regarding this topic, we
1:57:13will be covering many many of this stuff
1:57:16actually in the upcoming episodes.
1:57:19>> Yeah. So you get more episodes.
1:57:22>> Yeah. Uh
1:57:22>> let's go.
1:57:25So yeah
1:57:28and uh also we I see that we got many
1:57:32more questions and also on email we
1:57:35received uh much more questions but we
1:57:38will try to answer as many as possible
1:57:42uh in these uh episodes and in these
1:57:46courses. So it will be easier for
1:57:49everybody uh cuz there of course uh time
1:57:52is limited as of now.
1:57:55>> Yeah, cuz we're tired in it's late
1:57:57evening in Denmark. I'm going to bed in
1:57:5910 minutes.
1:58:03>> Just ask a quick question if I can. Um
1:58:07adding on to the whole uh justice rhythm
1:58:10guitar um points. Um, you mentioned that
1:58:15dialing in the tone for those guitars
1:58:17just took half a day.
1:58:19>> Yeah.
1:58:19>> So, were they Did you refer to the
1:58:22puppets notes to get the kind of sound
1:58:24they wanted and then
1:58:25>> we did. Yeah, we we started with the
1:58:26puppet setup
1:58:28>> just to get somewhere to start from and
1:58:31then from then on we change just changed
1:58:32everything because it was another room.
1:58:35>> Uh, Mike's was more or less the same.
1:58:40Uh, they were the same.
1:58:43So yeah.
1:58:45>> All right.
1:58:46>> We we we started with the setup uh for
1:58:48the master master puppet sound and then
1:58:51we went from there and everything
1:58:52sounded sounds different in a different
1:58:54studio in a different environment. Mics
1:58:56are played differently, all of that. And
1:58:58and we kind of went from there and it
1:59:01went pretty pretty smooth. uh half a day
1:59:03and we had a guitar sound and we started
1:59:05recording and James was like really
1:59:08happy
1:59:10cuz
1:59:12he was uh he was not happy with my clink
1:59:15unfortunately.
1:59:17He was actually so unhappy that he that
1:59:19one once we got there he was the only
1:59:22guy not staying at the apartments
1:59:23because they kicked him out cuz he
1:59:25trashed his room
1:59:27which is so rock and roll. I love it.
1:59:32>> I mean, was the quad tracking of guitar
1:59:35a common thing in the 80s or did they
1:59:38use
1:59:38>> I I don't I actually don't know that it
1:59:40was common for me. Um, but I actually
1:59:44remember at one point during uh during
1:59:47uh the recording of the guitars on
1:59:50Injustice, Lars looked at me and said,
1:59:52"In two months, everybody in the States
1:59:55are going to be recording guitars like
1:59:57this."
1:59:59So that was a Danish thing. Uh, no, I
2:00:03did that because I did that when we did
2:00:05Ride the Lightning. I I I quickly heard
2:00:08that James was so good at playing. So,
2:00:11so, so the four guitars are James's
2:00:14guitar with James's uh equipment, and
2:00:18then we doubled that on Kirk's gear with
2:00:21another guitar, and then he would do
2:00:25Kirk's part with Kirk's main guitar on
2:00:28Kirk's gear. And then he would do a
2:00:31double of that on one of his other
2:00:33James' others guitars on James' gear. So
2:00:36there's like a really loud James in one
2:00:39side, a really loud Kirk in the other
2:00:41side, and underneath them are uh uh two
2:00:45not so loud which is
2:00:48swapped, right? So there's a James and
2:00:50Kirk in both sides.
2:00:52>> But how would you deal with that? If you
2:00:55like, for instance, you wanted not to
2:00:57use four guitars, but you wanted two
2:00:59guitars. Would that be the same guitar
2:01:01or two?
2:01:02>> Yeah, it would be the two main guitars.
2:01:05But if you wanted
2:01:06>> you only wanted the double.
2:01:08>> Yeah.
2:01:09>> Yeah. But you needed you needed uh
2:01:12James's part and Kirk's part. It's
2:01:15because it's two different parts. They
2:01:16don't always play the same. So there's
2:01:19two James and two Kirks in in each side.
2:01:23>> Yeah.
2:01:24>> Thank you so much.
2:01:26>> You're welcome.
2:01:27>> So yeah, I think that wraps it up for uh
2:01:29>> that's it.
2:01:30>> Yeah.
2:01:31>> Yeah. Good night to everybody. Thank you
2:01:34everyone for participating in this and
2:01:38see you next time.
2:01:39>> Yeah, we'll do it again.
2:01:44>> Thank you so much. Have a good night.
2:01:45Thank you.
2:01:47>> Hello, guys. Bye. Bye.
2:01:48>> Bye. Bye. See you soon.
2:01:50>> Good night.
2:01:51>> Good night.

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