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Tom Satterly - The Battle of Mogadishu "Black Hawk Down" 30th Anniversary | SRS #77 Part 2 — Transcript

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0:00previously on the Shawn Ryan Show yeah I
0:03grew up in Columbus Indiana was little
0:05small town
0:07cornfields well what got your
0:09interest a friend of mine one of my best
0:12friends in high school had joined the
0:13military and I'm like you're crazy man
0:15you know it's like I'm off the basic
0:16training and then you know I'll be back
0:18in about 2 or 3 months so what was the
0:21briefing like when you guys were going
0:23over no news is good news tell your
0:26families that no news is good news we
0:29don't know when we're coming back
0:30back we don't know if we're going to do
0:32anything but we want to go catch a deed
0:35I saw a guy across the street pop out
0:36with an AK and aim it up he either shot
0:38him right in the head or whatever he
0:39disappeared in the room his weapon flew
0:41out the window was that your first kill
0:44the guy on the roof yeah so that was
0:47exciting for you it was well before we
0:49head into 3 October let's take another
0:51quick
0:55break it's October 3rd 2023 and today
1:00marks the 30th
1:03anniversary of the battle of
1:05Mogadishu which was part of
1:08operation Gothic
1:10serpent which was in Mogadishu Somalia
1:15many of you know this
1:16event from the famous movie Blackhawk
1:21Down now operation Gothic serpent took
1:23place
1:26because the Somali National Alliance was
1:31starving their citizens to death and so
1:34US forces went in there to help these
1:39people out and um it was an operation
1:47that took a lot of
1:49casualties 18 US service members killed
1:5373
1:55wounded on the other side casualties
1:58were much heavier they they estimate in
2:00between 300 and
2:04700 casualties on the sming National
2:10Alliance lot of trauma lot of
2:14death it's
2:17important that we document these type of
2:20events and we learn from them and we
2:22honor the men and women who both fought
2:26in those
2:27battles and more importantly who died
2:32and didn't return home from those
2:35battles today we
2:38have a new friend of
2:40mine retired Delta operator this is his
2:44last time he will ever speak of this
2:48publicly and it's a real honor to be
2:50able to
2:51document his
2:55testimony ladies and
2:58gentlemen without without further Ado
3:01please
3:02welcome retired Delta operator Tom
3:07satly to the Shawn Ryan
3:12Show Now take just a
3:18moment and pay your
3:22respects to the
3:24men who fought and
3:28died that
3:33day God bless
3:36[Music]
3:41America all right Tom we're back from
3:43the break we're getting ready to get
3:44into October 3rd which I know is a it's
3:48a very somber memory for you but um I'm
3:53going to I'm just going to spit out a
3:55couple of facts and then we'll get into
3:56that day
3:58but have happened in madisha Somalia
4:01October 3rd 1993 began as a 1-hour
4:05mission launched with the launch the
4:07mission with Irene Irene
4:09Irene was the longest sustained
4:12firefight since Vietnam you guys were
4:14fighting with depleted resources limited
4:17water limited ammunition limited medical
4:19supplies a lot of you were extremely
4:22dehydrated and uh lot of physical
4:24suffering changed the way the delta in
4:27the armed forces conducted Miss from
4:30that day forward 18 American soldiers
4:33were killed that
4:36day you guys were fighting with less
4:40than favorable Rules of Engagement and
4:44these countries Somalia do not fight
4:47under the Geneva Convention standards so
4:50I just wanted to bring a couple of facts
4:53um uh before we get into that and then
4:56you have also stated uh in previous
4:59interviews that American soldiers body
5:02parts began showing up at the base gate
5:05in trash
5:07bags let's start with the trash
5:18bags what hurts me the
5:22most about the trash
5:26bags probably happened a couple years
5:29ago
5:36talking to one of his spouses whose body
5:38parts were in that trash
5:41bag and she can't use trash
5:44bags she just can't use trash bags
5:46anymore to think of
5:49that I don't know what the delivery was
5:51for I don't know if it was to give them
5:53back and that's just the only way to do
5:55it after they hacked them apart and
5:56dragged them to the street
5:58but
6:00I mean that's sad when you that's how
6:01you identify people as in body parts and
6:04trash bags delivered to your front gate
6:06I think it might have been of something
6:07to try to appease us maybe to slow us
6:11down from what I think they knew would
6:14be hell unleashing that we wanted
6:19to yeah or taunting you know I don't
6:23know what their purpose was uh but it
6:27certainly angered everyone
6:29who were these
6:32guys I think the body parts were from
6:37uh probably part Gary Gordon and Randy
6:40schugar and maybe one of the crew
6:44chiefs that they had overrun that that
6:47crash site number
6:49two where guys had gone
6:52in once the guys got on the ground and
6:54fought their way to them two two other
6:56snipers that request to be put in three
6:58times were denied and then finally give
7:00him the okay to go in just crash site
7:02number
7:04two I mean they didn't find anything it
7:06was too late um everybody had been taken
7:08out they'd captured Durant um and so
7:11they came about exfilled back out
7:16but I think they all the body parts came
7:20from that crash site fck
7:23man cuz we we stuck around our crash
7:25site all night waiting for body parts to
7:29get the Pilots they were buried
7:30underneath the helicopter that flipped
7:32as it
7:33crashed and so we couldn't get them out
7:35until we had a heavy vehicle to pull it
7:37you know the helicopter away and so
7:39that's why we ended up staying there the
7:40whole night to repatriate those those
7:43bodies that were C you know caught
7:44underneath the
7:47helicopter I don't even I couldn't even
7:49tell you how many days after that the
7:51body part showed up it was just a haze
7:53for for me I just was angry I wanted to
7:57go back out and I wanted to kill
8:01everybody it's just a a response you
8:04know a traumatic response
8:07to how dare you we the US you know how
8:11simple of a thought process was that for
8:13me like how dare you we the good
8:18guys I just remember thinking that night
8:20just just let us go just let us out of
8:22this house and we'll go home you know
8:25just let us Ease on out of
8:27here and let's stop this [ __ ] you know
8:30uh of course it didn't
8:34but yeah that was a long
8:39night let's go to the morning of October
8:423rd let's just go through the whole
8:47day yeah I remember waking up it was a
8:49sunny day it was nice um and they were
8:53going to I mean I think they had decided
8:54already to play some volleyball like
8:56officers versus ncos and whatnot
9:00I remember thinking I'm going to go out
9:01for a run I I wasn't going to play
9:02volleyball so I I went out I was going
9:04to go out for a run around the
9:06airport and uh remember when I was
9:09leaving they had taped the commander to
9:11a cot and propped him up as one of the
9:14players so they couldn't count him as a
9:16player so trying to spike the ball into
9:18his face and whatnot but um I remember
9:20seeing that when I was leaving and
9:21laughing it was completely taped at this
9:23CAU and I went off for my
9:26run halfway through the Run maybe um
9:29pagis went off I try to run all the way
9:31back and as fast as I could it was like
9:33one of those oh my God I can't believe
9:34I'm halfway out a five mile run I got to
9:36run all the way back and uh get kitted
9:39up and get on the heers by the time I
9:40got back they already firing the heers
9:42up people were starting to run out I'm
9:43kitting up as fast as I can and grabbed
9:45everything I could and you know what's
9:47what's going on be back in an hour you
9:49know one of those say okay I don't need
9:51nods I don't need water I'm gone let's
9:52go but everybody kind of thought that
9:54everybody did the same
9:56thing loaded up on the heilos and sat
9:58there for a while I mean we sat there
9:59for a little bit I had no idea what was
10:01going on but it was the guy on the
10:02ground sending the signal in front of
10:03the wrong building kind of thing yes
10:05they're here is you know is he afraid to
10:07do it put up the vs7 panel and show us
10:09in the sky that yes this is the meeting
10:11house kind of thing so we're waiting for
10:13that develop um we're sitting on the
10:15helicopter we don't know there just
10:16blades are turning we're waiting um how
10:19many of you guys are
10:20there I want to say an all 90 maybe is
10:23with the Rangers and everything um total
10:25in 90 how many Delta
10:28guys H let's see let me do the math I
10:32think we plused up with other Squadron
10:35people I know we did so it would have
10:38been
10:4136 maybe
10:4340 40 maybe
10:49maybe mostly Rangers you know mostly
10:53they're the larger element to surround
10:54us so we can do our job you know didn't
10:56didn't work out that
10:58way
11:00yeah so
11:01uh made a back sit on the bird waiting
11:04uh team leader comes comes out and
11:06starts screaming you know we're doing
11:07this blah blah blah we're going here you
11:09like okay it's just like always right
11:12they call the Irene Irene Irene we take
11:14off and launch and
11:16and next thing you know it's browning
11:18out already we're starting to come in
11:19it's already Brown out the little birds
11:20have made a gun run um the other little
11:22birds have come in and landed on the
11:23corners of the buildings wherever they
11:24need to go so they're on top and it just
11:27the Blackhawks came in for the rain to
11:29set them on the Outer Perimeter and it
11:30browned everything out so our Hilo had
11:33to get set on outside the perimeter we
11:35were supposed to get dropped right in
11:36front of the target we had to drop
11:38outside the perimeter in a clear area
11:40and we started taking fire so we had to
11:43identify any house to to go in for cover
11:46so we just picked a house went in I
11:48remember this huge man just this huge
11:50man standing there in front of me like
11:53but but but a gentle huge man you know
11:56and women behind him screaming and and
11:58and and he's holding a baby like a
12:00little baby in his hands and I'm trying
12:01to pull him over to get him to get away
12:03from the door and to take a knee my
12:05friends comeing and screaming cuz he
12:06doesn't see the baby now he's this big
12:08man turn around he thinks I'm struggling
12:09with him you know and he's trying to get
12:10this big man down kicking him behind the
12:12knees and I'm trying no grabbing the
12:13baby you know I'm trying to keep the
12:15baby and the guy goes down to his knees
12:16hand him the baby and you know they cuff
12:18him
12:19and made a plan like how do we going to
12:21get out of here we got to get out of
12:22here and get back around to the Target
12:23um so we just kind of devised a quick
12:25plan waited for things to settle down in
12:26the dirt and everything so we could see
12:28pulled back out of the house turned back
12:30down the road we were on um and I
12:32remember moving on both sides of the
12:34street um and and me and me and the
12:37other guy Jake were in the
12:39middle and I remember two vehicles
12:42really nice vehicles coming out of that
12:45area with nice dressed you know four
12:47nice dressed men in each one and I
12:49thought I stopped the vehicles screaming
12:51on my team leader Pete what do we do hey
12:53this could be them this might be him you
12:55know and he like it's not the target
12:56keep going like [ __ ] so we keep going I
12:59mean I don't know right what is the
13:01target it is a just one of the houses
13:04that they were having a meeting in a
13:05bunch of the adids leaders were having a
13:07meeting there it was just a home and
13:11capture kill yeah okay yeah hopefully to
13:14capture to get information on a deed
13:17um not sadly but most of them died on
13:20the xfill in the in the in the five ton
13:23by their own people but um fought our
13:26way into that Target and they had
13:27already had everyone detained you know
13:29um handcuffed but they had pulled out to
13:31move to another building to pull a
13:32security so we went in and started
13:34searching the building finding AKs here
13:36and there underneath stuff you know they
13:37had these huge 50 lb bags of sugar they
13:39were making cocacola or something there
13:41it was
13:42weird I remember searching up top like
13:45pulling out these 50 lb bags of sugar
13:47and looking underneath them and one guy
13:48was handcuffed on the ground already and
13:50I remember dropping one of those bags
13:51and it landed on him he's like let out
13:53this Mo I'm like oh man you know I
13:55didn't want to do that
13:57right and and so we search in the old
13:59place and and I'm asking people
14:01questions and nobody's answering you
14:02right and there's a safe there I'm like
14:04who knows a combo to the
14:05safe nobody say anything all right
14:07interpreter who knows combo is safe as
14:09him nobody says anything okay next
14:11person that doesn't know the combo is
14:13safe is going to get shot in the face
14:14you know some is the combo this I'm like
14:16oh that works you know threatening
14:18people works so open up the save sack
14:20Sali money there I'm like yes I have big
14:22score for me right put in a garbage bag
14:24you know and I got cash in a garbage bag
14:26I got on my shoulder we're going to
14:27xfill
14:29um and I'm going to have this bag of
14:30cash you know I won the day and so we're
14:32prepping for xville and I hear an RPG
14:35and Sun explosion end up looking down
14:38the street it's one of the fets got hit
14:40and I'm
14:41like uhoh like whoa you know like we're
14:45getting we're hit getting hit now that's
14:47weird the fact that we' already taken
14:48fire on infi um and we had already lost
14:51one Ranger who fell 90 fet a Blackburn I
14:55don't know what I either didn't grab the
14:56Rope the brown out whatever fell 90 ft
14:58and landed instantly had a metac for him
15:01and so they I think they loaded him up
15:02on a humb and we're driving back to try
15:04to get him which saved his life um so
15:07we're down those people and that was on
15:09infill um catch back up to prepping to
15:12xville now I remember moving around that
15:15building to another Courtyard probably
15:17off of that building metal walls you
15:19know the metal gates that they open and
15:20Clos there's a car parked in there and
15:23there was two teams in there my team and
15:25uh I don't know another team from us and
15:27then some Rangers and we shut the gate
15:29we're kind of waiting on the vehicle
15:30Convoy to roll up and we'll get in and
15:31we'll go
15:35home and I thought I'm going slash the
15:37it was that wasn't first I remember
15:39standing our waiting deck Phi laughing I
15:41got the bag of cash on my shoulder we're
15:42talking man hope he make it back for
15:44dinner you know we're still cracking
15:45jokes and then that Ranger's neck
15:47just opened up right there and it kind
15:50of fell over you see a hole in the
15:52Middle Gate I'm like you know oh [ __ ]
15:54the Medics jump on him start grabbing up
15:57his neck and I'm like oh this is is
15:58growing into something something worse
16:01you know I remember getting nervous but
16:03still like we're going to be home for
16:05dinner right you know just joking around
16:07and then another RPG and I remember
16:08looking up and seeing it hit the
16:09helicopter the tail of the helicopter
16:11you saw it hit yeah and it just started
16:14Auto rotating I'm like oh man no no no
16:18you know and it crashed a little bit
16:20Northwest of us or Northeast of us and
16:23uh devised another quick plan right
16:26calling up higher you know whatever team
16:27leaders doing the time I I know now he
16:29was calling a high getting you know
16:30where's it at guide me to it get the
16:33Convoy to go to it you know the mission
16:34had just changed you know now we got to
16:36get to that
16:38Hilo load up on both side of the streets
16:41you know put out you know the pilots um
16:45know them no I know who they were yeah
16:48their names a little bit yeah um but no
16:51I wouldn't say I knew them you know I
16:54used to say I knew everybody I'm friends
16:56with everybody now I've learned that
16:57your acquaintance you know we're friends
16:59if you know my kids middle names or
17:00something you know then we're close
17:03um back then you know well we're all one
17:05you know but I didn't I couldn't say
17:06that I knew
17:09them and I remember lining up on both
17:11side of the streets and heading that way
17:12you know and just moving in a column
17:15both sides of the streets um cross
17:17covering for each other and every
17:18intersection we crossed on our way was
17:19just a hail of gunfire I remember single
17:23one huh yeah every single one and they
17:25were paralleling us trying to beat us to
17:27the crash site and so knew we had to
17:28speed up so we gave up security by using
17:31speed and every intersection just hell
17:33bullet you had just kind of wait and
17:34then go and I remember going past one I
17:36was there weren't people at it and I was
17:39kind of watching around the corner
17:40waiting for other people to cross and
17:41and then this donkey comes walking
17:43across the street just standing there
17:46like he's just
17:47chilling and then we start taking fire
17:49and I realize they're shooting from
17:50behind the donkey you know you start
17:51seeing feet behind the donkey I'm like
17:53all right you got to drop the donkey to
17:54drop the dudes I remember shooting the
17:55donkey and it took off and then those
17:58dudes are standing with their you know
17:59guns in their hands like uh-oh donkey's
18:01gun like man they'll do anything to get
18:03at us you know and I remember thinking I
18:04remember call my team or my one of my
18:06friends
18:07over look at this thing man what's this
18:09donkey doing just standing he goes I
18:11don't know it's crazy and then you up we
18:13get you know taking fire so we realize
18:14what was
18:16happening kept moving down the street
18:18and finally turned to head north and we
18:20had a couple blocks to go a couple
18:22Somalian blocks to go which is just you
18:24know not that far probably 50
18:27yards maybe 100 yards at the most and
18:30remember turning the corner the other
18:31team took the other you know the other
18:33couple teams took the far side of the
18:34street and they were in the lit side I
18:37think the sun was setting you know on
18:39this side now and it's lighting up the
18:40east side of the street so we weren't in
18:42as much and they were taking more fire
18:44and from up near the crash site I
18:49remember my 2ic jumping out middle of
18:51the street and I jumped out with him
18:52with my M4 and he shot the 203 down and
18:55and hit literally hit this building I
18:56mean this little Shack just pass the
18:58crash where one dude was in he just
19:00jumped out and I mean it was it was a
19:02lucky shot and he knows it too it was
19:04one of those that hit it I was like holy
19:05[ __ ] and then one guy came running out
19:07and we're sitting there engaging and
19:08right but before I had walked out in the
19:10middle of the street with him I remember
19:11looking over and I saw Earl and his team
19:13shooting up the
19:14street and when I looked back there were
19:16two people dragging Earl into their
19:19building and I mean I didn't see him get
19:21shot or anything I just thought what
19:23happened to Earl you know he fall down I
19:25mean Earl got killed instantly um shot
19:28right through our plastic Protek helmets
19:31you know so we could be faster right
19:34lightweight Protech skateboard helmets
19:37um we ended up pushing further down the
19:40street worked our way down and I
19:42remember Paul how was a team ler he was
19:45angry I remember his anger and he had
19:48ended up on our side of the street
19:50somehow and his team was on the other
19:51side and we got down to the crash site
19:54and our our team ended up being the
19:56furthest North and the furthest west of
19:58all the fighting we were that corner
20:00with the crash site being here and
20:02everyone else being this way down the
20:04street injured and wounded in the
20:05Rangers and
20:08whatnot I remember Paul coming over just
20:10pissed off and screaming and it's just
20:12all screwed up and blah blah blah we got
20:14to take this house I'm like all right
20:16Paul but chill bro chill I mean this is
20:18you know you got to you got to be under
20:19and he kicks the door and we go in it's
20:21full of women and one guy again we end
20:23up caring them all into the living room
20:26kids in the living room and then this
20:27one guy handcuffed left in the living
20:28room we end up dominating that house and
20:30that's where we stayed the rest of the
20:31night had a
20:33carport with a little metal roof covered
20:36sliding into the carport for some reason
20:39it seemed backwards to me with an
20:40entrance you know the kitchen off to the
20:42right a living room off to the left a
20:45little bathroom just off the kitchen and
20:47then three bedrooms tiny tiny little
20:50home but it was right on the corner of
20:52the crash site so we just occupied every
20:53room pulling guard out every window um I
20:57didn't know anybody was killed or
20:58wounded
20:59yet by then before we even made it to
21:02that crash site the
21:05um the rescue bird had come
21:07in and they had faster up they took an
21:10RPG right to the rotor blades as they
21:12were faster up again at the crash site
21:14and so they ended up pilot held that
21:15beautifully they ended up fast roping
21:17all in and then trying to secure the
21:19crash site before we even got there and
21:22and before we even got there the
21:24Somalians had gotten there and they were
21:26overwhelming the helicopter so
21:29Dan Bush had jumped out and ran out of
21:32cover range and ran around the corner
21:33with the saw to dispatch as many salies
21:36as he could to defend the crash site but
21:39he in turn got killed doing that as well
21:42uh got shot doing
21:43that so another guy runs out and grabs
21:46him another sniper ran out and grabbed
21:47him and as he was dragging him out of
21:49the way a little bird came and landed in
21:51the intersection with a pilot shooting
21:53mp5s out the window um to help them he
21:57got shot through the neet NE pulling Dan
21:59to the Hilo to put him in and he kept he
22:02tried to get back in the fight and they
22:04wouldn't let him they made him get on
22:05the bird as well and they exfilled both
22:07of them and Dan ended up dying of his
22:09wounds and I didn't know any of that
22:11till the end these are all your guys
22:19yeah and so that's how the night started
22:22no water um no night vision we're set up
22:26poorly on a on an undominated
22:28intersection with a crash
22:31site and just they just kept coming they
22:34just kept coming all night they kept
22:36trying to Pro probe our our our
22:37weaknesses coming up the Alleyways uh
22:41tearing down our buildings with RPGs
22:43just picking away at the walls and then
22:45you'd hear the helicopters calling in
22:47you know the ISR above telling us hey
22:49there's a convoy vehicles moving in you
22:51know we're going to send the little
22:52birds over and see what's happening but
22:53you can't do anything until they
22:54actually enter the area but they were
22:57Trucking people people in from
22:58everywhere found out years later
23:01Al-Qaeda was training there at the time
23:03how many guys do you
23:06estimate coming at us coming at you that
23:09night maybe 500 to 1,000 500 to 1,000 I
23:13mean they just kept coming I know I
23:15heard reports that the I mean who knows
23:17these reports are real that the hospital
23:19had filled up that night you know from
23:20wounded from them um but they would load
23:23him up truck after truck and pipe them
23:25in and and who really got the most kills
23:28were the little birds coming and just
23:30keeping them off of us I mean danger
23:32close Rockets right across the street
23:34guys were R out in the out in the
23:36streets underneath cars and the brass
23:38from the Min guns would fall on them and
23:39freak out I mean it was funny what
23:41happened to me I was freaked out it's
23:42hot and it's heavy and it hurts you
23:43think you're getting shot you don't know
23:45what it is and it's like oh and then in
23:46the morning when the 10th Mountain
23:48showed up to help pull us out same thing
23:50happened to them they're all freaking
23:51out I'm like don't worry about it man
23:52it's old school [ __ ] that happened
23:54earlier in the
23:55night but yeah it just kicked off to we
23:58wave after wave after wave I how close
24:02uh me to you that close yeah same
24:06position
24:07yeah they'd make it that close at one
24:10point in the night me and another buddy
24:12were laying down at the gate facing the
24:14crash site open car you know carport
24:17gate and from this direction were all
24:19the Rangers to the right and to the left
24:21is the bad guy
24:22territory and two local smes with AKs
24:26over the shoulders just walking talking
24:28came from that direction the Rangers
24:29Direction and walked right in front of
24:31us I looked at my buddy I'm like he
24:34looks at me I'm like he goes oh well you
24:37know once they got out of out of line of
24:40sight from the team across the street he
24:41opened up I opened up and one dropped
24:43and the other one ran around the corner
24:44you know and then probably died too a
24:45little bit later but I like the nerve
24:48man did they forget we were here I mean
24:50and how did they get here from all the
24:51way down there right who didn't shoot
24:53them from down
24:55there they would come up I was sit
24:57sitting on a window um on a
25:00bed poking my weapon out of a window
25:02covered with bars at a house this far
25:05away looking at a wooden shutters to
25:08another window and I could hear people
25:11rustling around in there with weapons
25:12and you could hear them charging weapons
25:13and talking and I just shoot through the
25:15the wooden shutters and then you hear
25:16him screaming and run out and then you
25:17hear them later talking again and I know
25:19they were going to open that window and
25:21and do something and literally 3 feet
25:22apart and I just keep shooting through
25:24the wooden shutters um so I sat there
25:26for a while and at one point I heard
25:29this clicking and dragging clicking and
25:32dragging and I'm
25:33like I hear something and I look down
25:36and there's there's a full a Simoleon on
25:39his hands and knees with an AK in front
25:40of him crawling up to my
25:43window and I tried to get my M4 out
25:45there and I couldn't get it out there
25:46and I pulled my 45 out stuck my hand
25:48through the bars and was aiming it
25:50literally at the top of his head and I
25:52pulled the trigger and it was so full of
25:55sand from the rotor wash the hammer
25:57Falls halfway and it just sticks there
25:59you got to be [ __ ] I'm like what the
26:01[ __ ] Reco it safe lay it on the bed I'm
26:04like I pulled out one of those little
26:05Austrian grenades those little ones and
26:07pulled the pen and I showed it to the
26:09guy standing on the door was watching
26:10the window he's like like he just steps
26:14in the hallway and I stuck my hand out
26:15the window again and look I remember
26:17dropping it and I remember him looking
26:19up like what was that you know and start
26:22to move to get up and I just laid on the
26:23bed and that thing went off into the
26:25whole ceiling was just covered
26:28and I remember
26:35this smell of burnt
26:39hair and then somebody came in screaming
26:42what was that you know and I instantly
26:44I'm in trouble right the guy at the door
26:47goes he just threw a grenade and I go oh
26:49no I was a flashbang I lied right about
26:51it cuz I thought I was in
26:53trouble and he's over there going no no
26:55it was a grenade it was a grenade go
26:56you're right it was a grenade look at
26:58this [ __ ] you know look at the ceiling
26:59man what do you think I threw a grenade
27:00for and then I'm defensive
27:03right and uh I thought man you know it
27:06didn't even hit me then I thought I
27:08finally got to use a grenade was my
27:09thought you know other than basic
27:11training I got to I got to use a
27:13grenade and then they kept switching
27:15positions so you'd stay awake and I
27:17ended up being in the carport standing
27:19up on the hood of a
27:20car to the same Alleyway that I just
27:23blew that dude up in and uh I could hear
27:26more rustling around and I'm leaning
27:28against that metal roof that slopes
27:29towards me but it drops off in the
27:32alleyway and I'm thinking I could slide
27:34a grenade up that way right and it just
27:37fall right over and I remember thinking
27:39but if I don't make it it'll slide back
27:43down to us right so I'm like all right I
27:45got to really Chuck this Gren I remember
27:46having this conversation with myself
27:47like if I don't do this right I'm going
27:50to frag the whole command element and my
27:52team who are in the carport taking care
27:54of two Rangers which I'll get to that
27:56story um
27:59soend up sliding that grenade really
28:00hard up on there and I think it hit the
28:02wall and fell down and blew up I don't
28:03know what happened but I ended up doing
28:05a lot of suppressive fire you know cuz
28:07looking around these Corners you could
28:08hear people I'm just shooting skipping
28:09off walls trying to keep people away
28:11versus just trying to kill people back
28:13in the day you don't shoot unless you
28:15have a Target right and it's a threat
28:16then it was to me then it turned into
28:18suppressive fire um just to keep people
28:20away but those you know those two
28:22Rangers in the court they were out on
28:24the corner of the
28:26building
28:28pulling pulling security uh to the West
28:32with a saw and there was two of them and
28:34it was off the corner where one of my
28:37friends was pulling guard out the window
28:38at the crash
28:39site I remember I was I was the one p
28:42position now that had a free float I
28:44didn't have to have a window for the
28:45time and that was your break you know
28:46and so I'm walking around going you need
28:48water you need water and I'm pouring
28:49water out of flower pots you know cuz we
28:51don't have water pouring them into
28:53canteen cups and little pipe dripping
28:56out of the wall I'm like whatever man
28:57we're eating eyey pills here's an eyey
28:59pill and I'll drink it you know cuz
29:00we're so
29:02thirsty and I remember grabbing his
29:04canteen and I turned around walked out
29:06the room and I turned back around to ask
29:07him a question with my two I see sitting
29:10on a couch in the hallway like right
29:12here and I turn to look at my my friend
29:14and I'm like I started asking a question
29:17the room just
29:19explodes and things hit you know grael
29:21gravel wall parts hit me in the face and
29:23I'm just standing there looking in the
29:25room which is now on fire
29:27and and my two i's like what was that I
29:30go I don't know you know just like
29:32conversational and then it hit me and I
29:34screamed RPG and I went running into the
29:37room cuz you know Jake was in there and
29:39I remember looking I mean you couldn't
29:41see and I remember looking down and I
29:43saw what I thought was his leg and I
29:44went to pick it up and it was his
29:46concrete beam that was on top of him and
29:48I threw it off and somebody else Rick
29:50came in to help as well and I remember
29:51him just coming up just groaning for air
29:53all all the air knocked out of his lungs
29:55cuz he was leaning against that wall
29:57that the RPG hit and that wall had
30:00dissipated the effects of the RPG other
30:01than the explosives and it just kind of
30:03knocked his uh wind out of his lungs
30:05knocked him over and I'm that hurt for a
30:07while and then left a huge hole in our
30:09house staring right at the crash
30:12site I remember pulling the door shut
30:15thinking man they can see right in here
30:17now and I saw a glow coming out from
30:19underneath the door like pretty soon and
30:21opened up up and the couch was on fire
30:23cuz that RPG motor had snapped off it
30:26was such a short distance that it was
30:27flying around the room still and then
30:29stuck under the couch and caught it on
30:31fire so now I'm running outside trying
30:33to put this I'm filling flower pots up
30:35again and I'm run back in and port on
30:37the couch and I'd go out and throw up
30:39because of this you know the noxious
30:40whatever that couch is made of in
30:41Somalia go back in there pour more water
30:44on it go back out and throw up from the
30:45smell go back in and pour water and
30:46finally put it out and I remember
30:48thinking we have a huge open hole now
30:50the next one's going to hit the living
30:51room right this wall stopped the next's
30:54going to hit to the living room
30:56so I ended up putting mattresses up on
30:59every wall and I pull a mattress I'd
31:00lean it up against the wall which
31:02everybody's making fun of me at the time
31:03you know and I remember coming back when
31:05the house got hit with another RPG with
31:07another one of my teammates sitting
31:08there the mattress had protected him
31:11from all the all the wall flying in um I
31:13remember walking in going see see I told
31:16you man few Choice
31:18words but those two Rangers that were
31:20outside that
31:21wall had to run out and drag them in and
31:25I drugg the Hispanic kid in I don't
31:28remember his name and the other guy
31:29somebody else drugging the other the
31:31other cat working on him um they're
31:34they're tore up pretty good and the
31:36Medics are working on him and I'm just
31:37helping what do you need what do you
31:38need what do you need and cut his pants
31:40off of the Hispanic and I mean his his
31:42nuts were gone pretty much he's got shot
31:44in the butt shrap or whatever and it
31:45kind of just blown in he was bleeding
31:48out and I remember putting the mass
31:50trousers on him airing him up trying to
31:51air him up and get the pressure on him
31:53and uh and after packing you know him
31:56with gauze and another another teammate
31:59well another team member from across the
32:01street come over anybody need any help
32:02and he looks down before I got the mass
32:03trouses on he's like oh man you're
32:06missing your nuts and I'd been lying to
32:08that dude cuz he's hispanic and he's
32:10wanting to start a big family you know
32:11and I go wait a minute you know because
32:14they don't teach you that you don't walk
32:15up and go oh that's horrible you walk up
32:17go you're going to be all right buddy
32:18right you give him hope I've been giving
32:19him hope and he walked up just blurted
32:21it out like oh [ __ ] man you know and
32:24that guy starts freaking out what what
32:25do you mean what do you mean I go dude
32:27you're good you're still good you know
32:28you had one left and you only need one
32:30you know he ended up being good he ended
32:33up being good down the road and the
32:34other guy had his his whole heel blown
32:36off um still in his
32:39boot still in his Bo still in his Boot
32:41and you can see the whole boot leather
32:43torn in his heel it was just disgusting
32:45and I remember just putting air boot on
32:47him boot on and everything you know
32:49packing that put air boot on him and
32:51they were good the rest of the night
32:52really you know just monitored
32:54them across the street a lot of people
32:56saw saw the movie um if you see the
32:58movie Blackhawk Down they're working on
33:00the guy's femoral artery kept slipping
33:01away they couldn't get it that was right
33:03across the street
33:05um horrible for the Medics that worked
33:07on him years later they talked about it
33:11the fact they just kept trying to save
33:13him we didn't have blood we didn't have
33:14you know um IVs we didn't have anything
33:16to give this
33:19kid who just slowly died you know just
33:22bled
33:24out with the Medics doing everything
33:26they could cutting him down trying to
33:28clamp off his arteries it just was too
33:30far
33:31gone all of which I didn't know you know
33:35until later so we got this big hole in
33:38our roof you know I got people creeping
33:39up and it just continues all night long
33:42just all we could do is switch positions
33:44keep firing running out we ran out of
33:46ammo didn't have any water completely
33:49ran out of ammo at one point I had a
33:50knife on the bed
33:53thinking all right you
33:55know this is the day and uh I thought I
33:59remember thinking I'm going to do as
34:00much damage as I can before I'm gone you
34:03know and uh that's when the team leader
34:06runs in and I could hear the Convoy in
34:08in the city the 50 cows RPGs you know
34:11the the dish gets going off and you knew
34:14the differences and louder and louder
34:17you're like and then it get softer and
34:19softer you know went around and kept
34:21getting blocked by burning tires and it
34:23just kept getting blocked from
34:25us and team leader came in I'm like hey
34:28are they going to make it you know and
34:30he was like no no I don't know and
34:32that's that's when I had my knife on the
34:34bed and I remember
34:35thinking I was terrified and that's when
34:38it all got
34:40better when I reserved and relented to
34:43the fact that I was going to
34:44die it got
34:46better there was nothing to be fear
34:48fearful of anymore I I knew my
34:51destiny and that's all I wanted to do
34:53you know and back then we didn't have
34:54speed balls we didn't we didn't resupply
34:57we're in and out you know that's all we
34:59did so back in the rear they're packing
35:01boxes they're putting stuff together and
35:03then the helicopter flies over and
35:04hovers right over us start pushing ammo
35:07out water jugs out they're exploding the
35:10ammo is exploding and rounds are going
35:12everywhere in the
35:13dirt and then they take fire from the
35:16house directly to our right second floor
35:19we didn't know anybody was in that
35:21building and that's when another friend
35:23got shot in the face he was eye Lev with
35:25that guy hovering in the cber shot and
35:27he was one of the snipers that's when he
35:29got shot in the face um he lived through
35:32that and then being the young
35:35guy with the youngest guy being injured
35:38me being the youngest guy that's not
35:40injured go out and grab that ammo right
35:44I'm like wait a minute go grab it now
35:46cuz there's [ __ ] going up and down the
35:48street you know they're called bullets
35:50it's like we need it go get it and I
35:51remember thinking I got so mad I just
35:54stormed out there and got on my hands
35:55and knees and start grabbing all that I
35:57could run and dump it grab all I could
35:58run in and dump it I was just pissed and
36:01then grab all the water and brought it
36:02in so everything is in our room
36:05now what do you think is next
36:07disseminate that water and ammo hey Tom
36:11take this water across the
36:14street you know 30 ft can last a long
36:18time mhm you got two five gallon watered
36:22cans in your hand and and you start to
36:24run it gets farther and farther away as
36:27you slow down and you're you know trying
36:29to run but everything's in slow motion
36:31then as it speeds up as I get to the
36:33door I remember
36:35thinking and Screaming Eagle Eagle Eagle
36:37cuz I'm thought I'm going to get shot by
36:38my own people now cuz I'm running in
36:40this house you know and I didn't I don't
36:42know if anybody told him I'm
36:43coming Screaming Eagle Eagle Eagle I run
36:46I dropped the water cancer there's
36:47nobody in the house now I'm terrified am
36:48I in the right house did they leave you
36:50know who's in here so I kind of work my
36:52way back and they're dealing with
36:54business in the back side of their house
36:56you know you know um cuz the crash site
36:58was directly adjacent to the side of
36:59their house they're dealing with people
37:00creeping up the back hey you got some
37:02water in front I'll bring some ammo over
37:04you know good we're running out so had
37:06to run back across grab ammo run back
37:08across take him some ammo come back
37:09across I'm thinking man I hate being the
37:11young guy you know the new
37:13guy that point the new guy got up he was
37:16he he better shook it off and then you
37:18know it was one of those uh like I said
37:21all night long repeated stories
37:24of just wait waves of people coming
37:28Little Birds going back rearming getting
37:30ammo coming back out they you know they
37:32blew through crew rest for once in their
37:34lives they blew through crew rest and
37:36kept going and it was one of those
37:37things um that kept us
37:40alive and then before right before Sun
37:43break or sun up it was the 10th Mountain
37:47came walking down both sides of the
37:49street like it was a Monday you know and
37:52they were going to the park and
37:55uh they had two Packy vehicles with them
37:58in the back and I remember one guy
38:00coming in started anybody got any dip
38:03I'm like bro do you know what we've been
38:05doing all night and you come in looking
38:07for dip and you just got here you know
38:09what I mean it was one of those weird
38:10things and uh they set up like they
38:12normally do out in the streets we're
38:14like I wouldn't do that man I would I
38:16would watch what you're doing cuz none
38:17of that worked for us all night long and
38:19you know some of those guys start
38:20getting shot at but they finally got the
38:22the vehicles up there pulled the Hilo
38:25off the off the bodies
38:27put all the bodies on top of the two
38:28vehicles we had cuz the rest of the
38:30Convoy was about a mile away on the Main
38:33Street they couldn't make it you know no
38:35armor wants to go down the a tight
38:36Street like that without infantry so
38:38they ended up sending just
38:40two through all the bodies on top and
38:42all the wounded inside it was like okay
38:45load up and we're going to head on out I
38:46thought man I was getting happy you know
38:49flipped the handle on one of those
38:51things start to climb in the back and
38:52all I saw you know you can always get
38:54one more in a military vehicle right how
38:56many as a hold one more you'll get one
38:57more in there not that day I literally
39:01opened the door and it was like Sardine
39:03Can of Rangers and it just pulled it
39:05shut locked it back and I'm like well I
39:08can't get in this vehicle nobody can you
39:10can't get on top it's covered in bodies
39:13so they devised another plan we'll walk
39:15along the vehicles they'll use we'll use
39:17them for cover and then we'll get
39:20back that was a good plan until the
39:22first rounds came right and then those
39:24Vehicles took off and we're just
39:26standing there and that's that's the
39:27madichi mile
39:29started running and gunning ala's out of
39:32ammo again I remember people were
39:34dropping mags and reloading their mags
39:36and I'd pick up a MAG off the ground
39:37knock the dirt out of and stick in and
39:39I'd three rounds you know in there and
39:40I'd grab another mag and it was that bad
39:42yeah it was probably for me anyway I
39:45mean I don't you know guys are dropping
39:46mags with three I'm like all right
39:47you're not apparently not off bad as bad
39:49off it as I am because I have zero mags
39:51with zero
39:52bullets so I'd pick them up and start
39:55using them um
39:57and then I remember getting to that
39:59heading south and getting to that corner
40:00where we going to turn back West towards
40:03the Target that we hit that
40:05night and I remember they were sending
40:07an Apache in to Rocket the Blackhawk we
40:10had already put a cind are on it but
40:11they wanted to Rocket it destroy it more
40:13so nobody could use anything in it and I
40:15saw the Apache moving around coming on
40:17in I thought I'm going to stop and watch
40:18I've never seen this before right it
40:20just stopped on that corner I start
40:23watching just kept hovering and moving
40:25and back and forth I'm like it's going
40:26to take forever it's regular army
40:27probably so I turned and my team was
40:30gone everybody was gone I'm like what
40:32was I what was I thinking what was I
40:33doing I just took off running down the
40:35street in the direction that I knew we
40:37had to go and I got halfway down that
40:40street and one of the Medics jumped out
40:43said Tom here and he basically pushed me
40:46in between two walls in an Alleyway
40:47right as an RPG hit now I don't know
40:49that he knew that he was just grabbed me
40:51to get my
40:52attention ryen RPG hit with which messed
40:55up his ear but as right as he pushed me
40:57into that wall so I I missed out on that
40:59again he got lucky on that one um swap
41:03some magazines you know and headed back
41:05out and
41:06and shooting in every door and window
41:09that you could you
41:10know you just don't know who's shooting
41:12at you in the city so you just shoot at
41:14what you
41:15see and I remember finally making it
41:18back to all of the vehicles and all the
41:20tanks and and it was weird that the
41:22tanks were just shooting into the city
41:24these armored vehicles are just rocking
41:26it 10th Mountain was rocking 50s into
41:28the City and you know Mark 19s and
41:30launching grenades and God knows what
41:32direction what they saw just it was it
41:34was a sight to
41:35see I remember looking up at one of the
41:37Packy drivers I was like smacked him on
41:39the head and he looked at me I'm like
41:40thank you like thank you and he's he
41:42just look back like he was terrified you
41:44know like imagine the whole night not in
41:46that vehicle you know it's just they
41:48didn't want to be there more than any of
41:50us didn't and then they were trying to
41:52devise a plan on how to get us out and
41:53the whole plan was to load everybody up
41:55and go to the Pakistani Stadium which
41:57was close then fly everybody back to the
42:00Airfield in the in the
42:03hilos and up until about two years ago I
42:05didn't know why but our two Humvees
42:08unarmored Humvees that we loaded up in
42:10the back
42:11of just start driving and we shooting
42:14everything on the streets we could see
42:15until we crossed that road you know the
42:17good clans and I mean I think I was
42:19still shooting towards an that people
42:21somebody screaming me hey hey we crossed
42:22the road I'm like I look and there's a
42:24dude stand on the side of the road just
42:25chewing c you know getting high and I'm
42:27like oh okay all right all right we're
42:29good we cross you know you're still
42:30watching people now right and it was
42:33terrifying we pulled up on like burning
42:35tires and the driver start what do I do
42:37and I go don't you [ __ ] stop whatever
42:38you do don't stop plow through it I
42:40don't give a [ __ ] but you're not
42:41stopping you know so we plow through
42:42that made it to the back gate of the
42:45Airfield went in the gate and sat there
42:47for like 30 minutes like where's where's
42:49everybody at they should be right behind
42:50us you know where you at radio was dead
42:53so I couldn't you know talk to anybody
42:57there's a picture of me sitting on that
42:58home V with the 10 Mountain riding on it
43:02you know and whatnot and me sitting on
43:03there I B bummed a cigarette off one of
43:05those dudes I'm smoking a cigarette next
43:07to two other team guys like and I
43:09remember turning to look at him and go
43:10do you realize who you just rescued you
43:13know like you just pulled us out of the
43:15fight you know and uh I had that little
43:18moment with a cigarette and then I said
43:19we got to drive around back to where we
43:21live find out what's going
43:25on and that's when I realized the
43:31night as we're driving up to our hanger
43:34across the street from us was the
43:36medical tent the hospital which the
43:39nurses would scream at us every night
43:40cuz they never got mortared until we
43:42showed up and then we got mortared every
43:43night and they were pissed off that we
43:45were there because you know we drew in
43:46the mortar
43:48rounds and I remember pulling up and
43:50right before we turn in our gate there
43:52was a little cutout at off the side of
43:54the road and I remember seeing I 12
43:56bodies
44:01maybe covered in Poncho liners or
44:04ponchos but you could see the
44:07boots and I know the difference between
44:09Adidas's assault boots and tan desert
44:13boots and I knew who wore who who wore
44:18what I thought there's way too many
44:20Adidas salt boots right there you know I
44:22have no idea what's going on and we got
44:24in and I saw got in the
44:27gate I saw two Humvees with RPG blasts
44:31on the sides and in the windshields and
44:32bullet holes and blood on the ground and
44:34sand
44:39everywhere blood in the
44:42vehicles and the smell of
44:47bleach I'll never forget that
44:50smell I've smelled it and it takes me
44:53right back in a second and it's uh you
44:56know they bring the vehicles back throw
44:58sand to absorb the blood throw bleach on
45:00it and then load them back up and send
45:02them back out to try to get to
45:07us and that's when I
45:15I that's when the helicopter started
45:17coming back the landing and people
45:19started getting out and that's when we
45:20started getting worried as to who was
45:21gone who was missing you know I'm
45:23missing or missing people how do you
45:26Miss people there's always a headcount I
45:28always thought how do people go missing
45:30P Mia who the who the hell goes missing
45:35right you got a buddy you don't go
45:36missing right and I didn't understand it
45:39until you go to war and you're in the
45:41chaos and the battle and you're
45:44defending your spot and you're looking
45:45through these toilet paper tubes so you
45:47know when you tell your War Story
45:48somebody's standing right to your left
45:49or right it's goingon to call you a liar
45:50maybe because they didn't see what you
45:52saw you know they're looking through the
45:54same thing that fear of that's all I see
45:58you know then you look over here and
45:59that's all you see you know and you got
46:00your head on swivel but if you're not
46:02focusing you don't your head on swiv you
46:04don't see anything so you have to focus
46:05focus focus focus and so everybody's
46:07doing the same things telling their own
46:11story and once the hilos came back we
46:13started getting word and we heard
46:15missing and then we immediately I know
46:17we went back and started watching the
46:18news and it was already on the news and
46:21that's when I saw him dragging bodies
46:22through the street and I'm like who
46:23who's that what what's where's this at
46:26you know then you realize you're the
46:28star of the show you know and that's
46:29that's that's you and then you realize
46:31it's in the news is it that bad like
46:34what you
46:37know and all I could do was rearm reload
46:41grab my nods for sure a ton of water and
46:44ready to go back out just ready to go
46:46back out found out Gary Randy Pilots
46:49were missing you know Durant was
46:52missing you know and then uh all we
46:54could do is wait they wouldn't let us go
46:56back out they were just trying to Jin up
47:00Intel and figure out what was going on
47:01and they were flying Signature Flight
47:03still they were flying around
47:05broadcasting you know we won't
47:08forgive we won't stop looking for
47:14you and then another Squadron came
47:17over and we were told we're being
47:19replaced we're too decimated too angry
47:21they wouldn't let us go back out and so
47:23all we could do was train up the other
47:26Squadron on what we had seen and what we
47:27had done and I remember sitting back and
47:29watching and it struck me two different
47:32targets hit at the same
47:34time over here C Squadron over here's a
47:36squadron the replacement
47:38Squadron and over here you couldn't see
47:41a
47:41head everybody that hit the building was
47:44down low nobody's in a window and over
47:46here you saw people walking around like
47:47in training you know looking around
47:49peeking through Windows I'm like don't
47:51do that don't do that in the city you
47:54lose everything you lose your head you
47:56get shot man you get shot by a little
47:58kid you know turn ACC Court you see
48:0215-year-old or younger kids holding AKs
48:04you know what do you do what do you do
48:07women come running out with AKs what do
48:08you do you got to
48:13survive and so the flight
48:19back was quite a weird one for me flight
48:23back home yeah was kind of empty
48:27a lot more
48:29empty with the knowledge of what had
48:31happened and the news and I remember
48:35nobody had called
48:36home and I I remember friend of a friend
48:38and I had went over and grabbed a phone
48:41off of
48:43the 10 10th Mountain division or
48:45something on the other side of the
48:46Airfield and like oh you got a sap phone
48:48huh called home and let him know you
48:50know we were alive even though hopefully
48:52the unit had done that but the units you
48:55know ideas no news is good news if we
48:57don't call you don't worry you know like
49:00you tell a spouse that right mhm that
49:03didn't really work
49:04out I remember the flight back was just
49:07one of those Quiet Ones just reflecting
49:09on on what happened and and and why and
49:11and who was gone and who was injured and
49:14and would they make it and and the and
49:17the images of everything coming into
49:18your head and I remember Landing they we
49:20didn't land at Fort Bragg or Pope
49:23because it was too much uh publicity on
49:26what had just
49:28happened so we landed uh I don't South
49:31Carolina I don't know what taking buses
49:34for a couple hours back back to work
49:36putting my kid away and then walking out
49:39and getting my my ex-wife's
49:42car and I I distinctly remember after
49:46the entire event the shrink came up and
49:49talked to us right before we left in the
49:53hanger and he said now listen guys
49:55you've been through some traumatic
49:56experiences that you don't realize yet
49:59and they're going to hit you sooner or
50:02later I goes so if you go home and you
50:04become overwhelmed by emotions or an
50:07event it's
50:09normal remember elbow on my friend like
50:11this this freaking loser man what does
50:13he mean man you know we're
50:17warriors fast forward I get my my wife's
50:20car she drives me home I don't say a
50:22word which was normal for us
50:27and we got home and I got out of the car
50:29we walked inside said in said a word I
50:31set my bag down and I turned and looked
50:32at her and she says so how was
50:39it I start
50:41balling I started
50:44balling she had no idea what to do like
50:47whoa like how was it I like was it good
50:50right that's the answer you get good I
50:53just started balling man until I fought
50:54It Off I just was
50:58sobbing I never told her what happened I
51:00just sobbed until she left and I stopped
51:04crying I don't know how long it was
51:06later I kind of told that to one of my
51:07close friends at the time and he kind of
51:10shared with me he did the same thing and
51:11I'm like oh this shit's real huh I mean
51:14it really happens just don't tell
51:15anybody about it
51:17right that was
51:20uh I remember thinking then that shrink
51:24knows something he predicted something
51:27you know like he's a Seer it was
51:31weird and I started listening to him a
51:33little more after that you know trying
51:35to get better to yeah um not about
51:37Somalia just about how to be better I
51:40think they probably knew you know cuz
51:43they said you know you keep climbing
51:44these mountain
51:46tops and then you climb the higher one
51:49and you see a Higher One you climb it
51:51when are you going to sit down and enjoy
51:52the
51:53Mountaintop I go is there another one
51:56like is there another unit to go to
51:58better than this I'll go there you know
51:59bigger higher does
52:02more like just just enjoy the mountain
52:04toop man you're on it just enjoy it you
52:06know you're too busy chasing something
52:08else
52:09and I never listen to that you know I I
52:12didn't I only listen to what I want to
52:13if it fit my agenda and it fit my story
52:15line I would listen to it if it didn't I
52:18didn't want to have anything to do with
52:18it because I didn't want to leave that
52:20unit because all I wanted to
52:24do
52:26was never let that happen
52:28again so I worked harder I trained
52:32harder I start moving into leadership
52:34positions I made my men train
52:37harder I tried to teach them as much as
52:39I had learned as as they moved out and
52:41the new kids came in how much we'd
52:43learned um which I found out later most
52:45of them thought we were bipolar [ __ ]
52:48cuz they didn't realize why we behav the
52:50way we behaved um just aggressive and
52:52angrily and spoke to everybody like they
52:54were [ __ ] you know um because we hated
52:56the world and we didn't know it but we
52:59wanted to impart upon them as much
53:02knowledge to not let that happen again
53:06ever and that started my life of um one
53:09I'd given up on life my switch had
53:11flipped I didn't care in
53:14Somalia I lost my empathy and compassion
53:17for
53:19humans you know if your life was [ __ ]
53:21up you should have thought about that in
53:22high school right you should have made
53:23better decisions you know you got
53:25yourself where you're at I didn't care
53:27and all I wanted to do was train all I
53:30wanted to do was be better so I could
53:32stop that from happening again and it
53:33never would never happen to my
53:37people and so all I was picking up all
53:39that time was you're not good
53:42enough Tom how many teammates did you
53:46lose what Dan Bush had just left our
53:49team and G went to
53:52snipers and so I consider we lost him
53:56cuz he was on our team for a
53:58while we lost Grizz Martin who was on
54:00our
54:05team he was driving our vehicle our humb
54:09that we had we had up armored with
54:11Plywood And
54:13sandbags and an RPG went right through
54:16the wheel well where we couldn't
54:18armor the rear one and hit him on his
54:21right hip as a
54:23driver and detonated his 45 which went
54:26off and then melted his 45 and injured
54:29him so bad that he died while they tried
54:31to save
54:36him and I could keep going with
54:41suicides from that
54:44battle or early deaths from God knows
54:48what you know and I certainly
54:53can outline lost lot lives like family
54:56lives from that
55:00event but the thing that strikes me the
55:03most is we never got to bury
55:04anyone we never got to say goodbye
55:07because it all happened before we got
55:10home and the only
55:15person that I didn't realize had done so
55:18much that night until I got back and saw
55:21those vehicles and then heard the
55:24stories who
55:27died two three days later when a mortan
55:30landed basically on him right after a
55:32memorial ceremony for all those we had
55:34lost on 3
55:36October was Matt
55:44Ryerson he came out for
55:49us four or five times at
55:53least get turned
55:55around come back drop off the wounded
55:59recruit
56:01more and come back out
56:04again lose people turn around go back
56:07get more and come back out again and
56:12again cuz that's who he
56:17was and then two days later he died and
56:20it Mor around hit him and took out our
56:22commander as well and a couple other
56:24people one of my best friends at the
56:26time I had just walked past them talking
56:29there from the ported bodies and
56:32chitchat for a second my friend stayed I
56:35went back to the cot laid down you know
56:38was chilling and I stood up to grab some
56:42kit and then an
56:44explosion you know I don't I didn't know
56:46at the time a chunk of asphalt hit me in
56:48my leg and I started bleeding there and
56:49I was like what think somebody blew up a
56:52charge I mean oh [ __ ] somebody had an ad
56:54with an explosive
56:56and then I heard
56:58screaming and I just took off running in
57:00that direction and I remember out of the
57:02smoke comes Jake hopping on one leg cuz
57:05he had his Achilles ttin and sliced
57:07almost 90% through and he
57:09couldn't couldn't walk on it and I
57:11remember grabbing him and throwing him
57:12on a cot and just wrapping up his his
57:15because he was in shorts and flipflops
57:17you know wrapping up his Achilles tin
57:20and as they started to carry away
57:22screaming avenge me avenge me Tom I'll
57:25never forget that funny funny [ __ ] in
57:27the middle of all that but they I mean
57:29the docks came over the hospital's right
57:31next door the docks came over our Medics
57:33were all over it our our commander had
57:37been Gravely wounded I mean he pulled
57:40through
57:41but I'll never forget his
57:44screaming I'll never
57:49forget as tough of a man as he
57:53was football player there just a big big
57:57man with a big heart who just recently
57:59passed
58:04away just
58:05screaming in pain and it wouldn't stop I
58:08remember laying in the bunker cuz they
58:09made us all go to the
58:11bunker except for the wounded and Medics
58:13they moving them I remember laying in
58:14the bunker just covering my ears I
58:16couldn't couldn't hear it
58:18anymore and then the cries for blood
58:21came out we need blood we need blood
58:22we're all donating as much blood as we
58:24could and and they were trying to keep
58:25Matt alive and keeping Gary alive and
58:28the Matt didn't make
58:30it Matt we got the Barry Matt we have a
58:32memorial
58:33for by the time they had memorial
58:36memorial for Matt we were back home and
58:39it was dress greens nadaa
58:43Iowa I was part of the 21 gun salute
58:45team you know and I'm so I'm thank
58:47goodness I'm outside um for for the hard
58:52part you know when
58:57the bugler and the back pipes
59:00play I was happy to be
59:05outside and I'm glad I got to do that
59:07with Matt at least you
59:10know he was he was like uh took me in as
59:12a as a father and came out for all of us
59:16you know until he
59:18died and everybody took on his kids as a
59:22family he had two young boys
59:27the spouses are some of the strongest
59:28women on the
59:32planet most of them get
59:35cancer the military drops them two years
59:38after I think the
59:40death or seven years whatever that time
59:44is three three years and then that's
59:46about the time they're developing
59:50Cancers and I know a lot of them that
59:52have and are fighting
59:53it here your husband's a medal of honor
59:55winner and you're not being taken care
59:57of properly it's just a sad
1:00:01State the [ __ ] those people went
1:00:09through and for them not to take care of
1:00:11their spouses you know for as long as
1:00:14they need
1:00:16it some of them I know they wouldn't
1:00:18remarry just wouldn't remarry for 20 30
1:00:23years like one of them just recently
1:00:25finally married to a loving man who took
1:00:28his sons in and
1:00:31just that she would not marry she
1:00:34couldn't marry she was in love that was
1:00:35who she was married to you know and and
1:00:39uh I'm glad she finally finally worked
1:00:42through
1:00:44that and and can move her life on you
1:00:47know remarried and and hopefully move on
1:00:50I know I
1:00:52try that's why this is my last
1:00:57one cuz I don't get this detailed
1:00:59typically and it still hurts you
1:01:02know yeah it's funny people say well
1:01:04tell me about Somaya well let's talk
1:01:05about Somaya
1:01:07instantly I feel it you know and I'm
1:01:10start gritting my teeth and jaw muscles
1:01:12start poking out you're like trying to
1:01:14get through
1:01:15it but it's that heavy and I've done a
1:01:19lot I've done a lot of work in the last
1:01:2210 years on myself it's still
1:01:28heavy and that's my worry you know for
1:01:31everybody out there is that the ones
1:01:33that are like I'm good fit as a fiddle
1:01:36you know that [ __ ] didn't affect
1:01:38me yeah it did yeah it did you just
1:01:42don't want to admit it you know how
1:01:44could that not affect
1:01:46you how could losing that many friends
1:01:49in in an 18h hour
1:01:51period not affect
1:01:53you I got a speeding ticket years later
1:01:56doing 90 I 104 and a 40 you know
1:01:59whatever I was out in Salt Lake City
1:02:01driving down Skull Valley heading out to
1:02:03a place you know to do some stuff and it
1:02:05was a straight road through the desert
1:02:06nobody's ever
1:02:08on halfway through that there's one Farm
1:02:11one house and the speed limit drops to
1:02:1340 I'm doing 100 and something there's a
1:02:16cop pulls me over I'm like whatever I
1:02:18pay the ticket two years later the
1:02:20ticket makes it back to North Carolina
1:02:22I've got to go to Defensive Driving
1:02:24School or lose my
1:02:25license so I go to this defensive
1:02:27driving school and they have this chart
1:02:29on how angry you are this angry angry
1:02:31driver thing you know have you lost a
1:02:33friend have you had trauma I literally
1:02:35checked every block on that
1:02:40sheet they gave it to I gave turned it
1:02:42in and most people have one checked two
1:02:45if you know if any I checked every one
1:02:47of them there are you serious you know
1:02:49it's not the place to mess around I go
1:02:51they're all true every one of those are
1:02:53true I mean that's not why I'm doing 104
1:02:55but every one of those are
1:02:58true and I kind of realized man I've had
1:03:00a lot of things happen to me when you
1:03:03don't really stack them all up when it's
1:03:04one at a time one at a time one at a
1:03:06time people over the years
1:03:09that that you keep losing to the point
1:03:11that they wanted to do a study they hit
1:03:14me up a couple years ago wanted to do a
1:03:15study on combat losses and they wanted
1:03:18to include the suicides that were
1:03:20related to that combat
1:03:22event because they're spe if Ying these
1:03:24events and these trauma
1:03:26events 30 years later right here we are
1:03:2930 years later and why am I emotionally
1:03:31welling up all the time when I try to
1:03:33talk through this have I not worked
1:03:35through it enough I mean what is the
1:03:37reason yeah I think I've worked through
1:03:38it so much that I can talk about
1:03:41it I can get through it um but as I said
1:03:45this is this is my last because everyone
1:03:47wants to hear it and every time I tell
1:03:49it it's just it just it traumatizes me
1:03:51again and Jen's always like you know
1:03:53you're going to you really want to do
1:03:55this because you really become an
1:03:56[ __ ] when you come home for a few
1:03:57days I'm like no no we'll work through
1:03:58it and every time I do
1:04:00it I get you know I don't notice it but
1:04:03I get more aggressive I get more tense
1:04:04and uptight and she knows now how to
1:04:07work through that how to get me through
1:04:08that so it's good and helps me work
1:04:09through it but you know it's just
1:04:11reliving that trauma over and over
1:04:15again is like living it over and over
1:04:17again
1:04:20yeah do you carry a lot of survival
1:04:23skills buil from from that
1:04:27up no you don't I don't think I
1:04:31did I don't think I ever felt that way I
1:04:35lost people I know that and that hurt
1:04:38but I don't feel
1:04:40like like I know a guy that was in a a
1:04:43vehicle that got you know IED he's the
1:04:46only one that lived in that vehicle the
1:04:48only one that lived in out of all his
1:04:50friends and his entire
1:04:51team that's Survivor skilt like why did
1:04:54I make it out of all of
1:04:57this to me I I I chocked it up to luck I
1:05:02threw out tactics when I saw the
1:05:0315-year-old kid shoot
1:05:05somebody W you didn't go to school for
1:05:07that did you you didn't take tactics you
1:05:10just pulled the trigger in in a general
1:05:12direction
1:05:14and you know when you have bullet holes
1:05:16in your
1:05:17clothes it's a lot of luck it's a lot of
1:05:21luck so I just chocked it up to luck
1:05:25um and I did I didn't have Survivor
1:05:29skill is there anything that could have
1:05:31been
1:05:32done after that
1:05:34operation that could have improved your
1:05:38your mental state for the rest of your
1:05:41career talking about it getting
1:05:44everybody together to talk about
1:05:46it with a coach licensed clinical social
1:05:50worker whatever in the room to give you
1:05:52the reasons you feel that way it took
1:05:55me 20 years 23 years I've been really
1:05:59hard on this for
1:06:01seven I've been out
1:06:0513 I played the game I'm okay for three
1:06:08I think it's on average it takes an
1:06:10operator 13 years to even ask for help
1:06:12so I might have been ahead of the game
1:06:14at
1:06:15three but after 3 years I I lied about
1:06:19how hard I was doing it you know I was
1:06:20kind of plating I
1:06:23think
1:06:26and then I started realizing and hearing
1:06:27these professionals tell me these simple
1:06:30lines about why I feel the way I feel
1:06:33and it just it
1:06:34clicks like why is that so
1:06:37easy cuz it's an outside source and
1:06:39someone who studied
1:06:42that so many
1:06:45people have told me I don't want to see
1:06:48her shrink unless they've been to combat
1:06:50CU they won't understand me you know and
1:06:51I'm like well then I don't want you to
1:06:53see our shrinks unless you've been to
1:06:54school for four to 6 years because you
1:06:55won't understand them like what I go
1:06:59they're not taking you to combat they're
1:07:00helping you with your mental health
1:07:01they're helping you work through why you
1:07:03feel bad they're giving you the reasons
1:07:05that they know of and that they've
1:07:06learned and why your brain works the way
1:07:07it works not combat they don't need to
1:07:09go to combat to know why your brain's
1:07:11behaving this way you don't have to go
1:07:12to combat to have your brain act this
1:07:14way so it's not combat it's not the
1:07:16defining factor it's the trauma which
1:07:18can happen anywhere and Trauma can be
1:07:21dealt with the same way pretty much no
1:07:23matter what the trauma
1:07:24is the stories are different the trauma
1:07:27behaves the same in your body it's
1:07:29biological and when you've had that
1:07:32repetitive my switch is on my fight
1:07:34fight fight fight when you come home I
1:07:36can't flight or freeze anymore I want to
1:07:39fight so when I'm
1:07:42embarrassed I'm mad when I'm scared I'm
1:07:46mad when I'm ashamed I'm mad when things
1:07:48don't go the way I think they should go
1:07:50I'm mad and I I'm not mad I rage
1:07:54because I live at a five so when you
1:07:56make me mad I go to eight I'm almost
1:07:58maxed out already and I didn't know that
1:08:01I didn't realize I was at a five my you
1:08:03know all the
1:08:05time until a lot of therapy a lot of one
1:08:09liners that made it easy and then Jen
1:08:13telling me it's not what you say it's
1:08:14how you say it is there any specific on
1:08:17liners that really resonated with you
1:08:19just off the top of your
1:08:21head yeah yeah a recent one that smacked
1:08:26me right in the face with a frying pan
1:08:28was was talking to a new therapist a new
1:08:31one I think you know we we we have four
1:08:33or five of them I've talked to all of
1:08:35them before I've talked to other ones
1:08:36before before I found the good one that
1:08:37we we got that we still have as well um
1:08:39we call our unicorn or Miracle Worker or
1:08:42the other ones are great as well and but
1:08:45this newer one here's the same
1:08:48story dishes in the sink things that
1:08:50make me mad why can't I just get the kid
1:08:52to do this why can't I get you know why
1:08:54does my wife never change the toilet
1:08:56paper roll how's this so hard why don't
1:08:58you hang your towels up why do your
1:09:00dirty clothes go on the floor when the
1:09:02basket's right here right my brain
1:09:03thinks I'm going to die because
1:09:05something's out of place I don't realize
1:09:07that and I kept trying to validate that
1:09:10but I'm just teaching I'm trying to
1:09:11teach the kids or the or my wife how to
1:09:13be put the clothes away it's lazy right
1:09:15I use the word lazy a lot you're just
1:09:17being lazy pick it up and put it here
1:09:19why do I have to do is it my
1:09:22job for six
1:09:25years every day banging my head against
1:09:28the wall pull her in hey you know cuz
1:09:30they're step kids right I don't want to
1:09:32go at the step kids Mama Bear will come
1:09:35out right and she told me with your
1:09:37aggression don't ever talk to my kids
1:09:39don't ever talk to my kids in an
1:09:40aggressive
1:09:42way and so I talk to her I would remove
1:09:46myself every day poor Jen hey they left
1:09:49why are they leaving distancing how come
1:09:51they they stack the trash so high
1:09:52everything falls out do they not know to
1:09:53take the bag and put put a new one in I
1:09:55mean what are they so lazy for why don't
1:09:57you do this and that and recently this
1:09:59doctor looks at me she goes that's your
1:10:00problem isn't
1:10:02it I was
1:10:04like what do you mean that's my problem
1:10:08you're the one that's upset about all
1:10:09that no one else in your house is that's
1:10:13how they live this is how you want to
1:10:15live why are you imposing your will upon
1:10:18them and I went from trying to teach to
1:10:21I'm an [ __ ] like wow there's a way to
1:10:25do these things you know not grabbing
1:10:28your spouse and telling her what to go
1:10:29say and if they're your own kids not
1:10:31grabbing your kids and telling them what
1:10:32to do it's how can I reach
1:10:36them or is it time to reach them you
1:10:39know is it are they able to be hear as
1:10:43children what I'm saying you know it
1:10:45reminds me of
1:10:47uh that that movie where they they were
1:10:50breaking up and it was uh Jennifer an in
1:10:53and and uh I don't know she I just want
1:10:56you to want to do the dishes and he's
1:10:58like why would I want to do the dishes
1:11:00you know ever and I'm thinking I am a
1:11:03little bit weird I love doing dishes I
1:11:04love cleaning up [ __ ] I love things
1:11:06being perfect it's been since before the
1:11:09military and it just dawned me the kids
1:11:11don't want to do that [ __ ] so they're
1:11:13not going to do that [ __ ] right and so I
1:11:15went through well punish them if they do
1:11:17this they'll be punished and they'll
1:11:18learn not to do that you know and I'll
1:11:19take away what they love and it nothing
1:11:22worked until she said well isn't that
1:11:24your
1:11:27problem it is my problem I need to work
1:11:29on me again something I'd forgotten
1:11:32about that I always need to do and I
1:11:34tell other people no one can help you
1:11:36you have to do it yourself they can tell
1:11:38you what to do how to do it but if you
1:11:40don't do it it doesn't work and I'd
1:11:42forgotten that trying to force them to
1:11:45clean pick up things they don't want to
1:11:47do and I forgot that's mine that's my
1:11:50hangup I need to work on my hangup and
1:11:53if if if it it bothers me pick up the
1:11:55cup and put it in the dishwasher and
1:11:56shut up you know no big deal but I was
1:11:59making everything a big
1:12:02deal why do you think she's stuck with
1:12:06you you think she understood what you
1:12:08were going through who my wife yeah your
1:12:12wife yeah she went through a lot
1:12:17herself growing
1:12:20up in her family um growing up as a
1:12:24young adult outside of her family a
1:12:29rape an angry family
1:12:32um and then a marriage that she
1:12:35wasn't that she was into and she
1:12:37realized they weren't into her and that
1:12:39she wasn't into it it was maybe too soon
1:12:40and one of those
1:12:43uh and that trauma was attracted to this
1:12:45trauma and and she understood it she had
1:12:48so
1:12:50she not forgave it but understood it she
1:12:55could work within
1:12:56it and I'm I'm very good-look so she had
1:12:59to stick around I like to add that cuz I
1:13:02hope that was part of it but just I've
1:13:04never met anybody as understanding as
1:13:06her when I first met her I thought she
1:13:07wanted something like more every day she
1:13:09was so nice I'm like what is it you're
1:13:11doing what's wrong what do you what do
1:13:12you want she like what bubbly I'm like
1:13:15uh you know I used to wake up and she'd
1:13:17bubbly bubbly wake up and just start
1:13:19talking to me I'd roll over and just
1:13:22growl you know like what what's what's
1:13:24what's so happy about the morning you
1:13:25know and I'm like what's not happy about
1:13:27the
1:13:28morning I just wanted to be angry and I
1:13:31and she just took me down the path of
1:13:33showing me who I
1:13:35was in a mirror something I'd never done
1:13:38before and I didn't like it I didn't
1:13:41like how I was behaving to people
1:13:48that you care about people I love people
1:13:52I'm supposed to
1:13:54protect but I'm the
1:13:56monster so I can protect her from
1:13:58everybody but me who lives with her the
1:14:00most and knows her every weakness and
1:14:02uses it against
1:14:04her yet I'm here to protect
1:14:07her so many go through
1:14:10that so many enter that shame
1:14:14cycle by saying something or physically
1:14:17doing
1:14:19something and I'm sorry isn't enough
1:14:21anymore and then the cycle starts of I'm
1:14:24no good I'm worthless I should just take
1:14:26my life you know this and
1:14:29that but Jen had
1:14:33that patience I don't think she had the
1:14:36knowledge of what to do she had the
1:14:38patience and the love of person who
1:14:40understood trauma and just stuck with it
1:14:44she shouldn't have she shouldn't have
1:14:47but she
1:14:51did it's a hell of a wife
1:14:55yeah she's stuck with me now we'll get
1:14:58more into that towards the end of the
1:14:59interview but um you'd already said it
1:15:04but I want to ask you if there's
1:15:05anything else because at some
1:15:08point somebody's going to do that again
1:15:11somebody's going to go through a similar
1:15:13experience they're not going to quit and
1:15:15they're going to keep operating just
1:15:17like you did and
1:15:20so what advice do you have for the next
1:15:23group of men that that happens to it's
1:15:25advice I put out every day because it's
1:15:27happening right now it's happening to my
1:15:29friends it's happening to the people
1:15:31that they know behind you know beyond
1:15:34them talk about
1:15:37it with your Bros whatever but go
1:15:40outside that use that therapy you know
1:15:43that you have at your organizations
1:15:45there's counselors at all of them you
1:15:47know they have all these fit programs
1:15:48now you know the workout coach The
1:15:51Counselor the the diet coach and nobody
1:15:53uses the counselor they want to work out
1:15:55get fit and eat right right this is part
1:15:58of Being Fit Body Mind Spirit right and
1:16:01if the mind is out other things are out
1:16:02and the mind is the most important part
1:16:04of your body I believe because it tells
1:16:05the rest of your body what to do and
1:16:07it's how you think and it controls
1:16:13everything so talk about it you know I
1:16:16would tell organizations to do
1:16:18mandatory mandatory coaching and
1:16:20counseling no matter what because no one
1:16:23going to admit it in those organizations
1:16:24so you have to make it mandatory you
1:16:26have to make sexual harassment training
1:16:28mandatory right click buttons whatever
1:16:31makes you feel good in the
1:16:33government you know don't tell Sally she
1:16:35looks good at work right they play that
1:16:36game but they don't play a game
1:16:40where let's say it used to be 22 a day
1:16:43they're trying to bump it down to 17 but
1:16:44if you know the facts it's you know it
1:16:46could be up to 40 to 48 a day of
1:16:50suicides the enemy can't touch us
1:16:54it's our inability to deal with our own
1:16:57emotions that's causing us to lose so
1:16:59many good people because they've lost
1:17:02hope they don't feel like they belong in
1:17:03a world that they really we need
1:17:04leadership in right we need calm steady
1:17:07leadership in this world and there isn't
1:17:08out there anymore you know it's in these
1:17:10Warriors who are being put down and
1:17:12looked at like
1:17:14animals it's like living inside the
1:17:16castle walls and spitting on the
1:17:19guards that's how it feels like a lot of
1:17:21people out there betay TR let down pull
1:17:25out of
1:17:27Afghanistan the assisted suicides of
1:17:29veterans you know that they're talking
1:17:30about now and different countries that
1:17:32they've enacted
1:17:33and the VA mistreatments you know people
1:17:36that you you don't hear many good
1:17:37stories about the VA I try to build it
1:17:40up well it's a big organization it's got
1:17:42a lot of veterans to help man you're
1:17:43going to wait in line right there's
1:17:45other Alternatives you know go out and
1:17:46try those but some are stuck with the VA
1:17:49you know
1:17:50but that anger that will build up they
1:17:55have to talk about it you know I think
1:17:57it should be
1:17:58mandatory when you come home for
1:18:00deployments to sit down you know maybe
1:18:02before you go home have a com have a
1:18:04talk maybe on the way back home have a
1:18:06talk and then when you're home
1:18:07throughout the next weeks of
1:18:09decompressing actually decompress and
1:18:11talk about anything that that had
1:18:13happened and pull it out of the guys
1:18:15because it would work chasing Fitness I
1:18:18can run all day my my beach muscles are
1:18:21huge I could give a [ __ ] I want someone
1:18:25mentally strong next to me fighting next
1:18:27to me and you're not mentally strong
1:18:31when you're struggling and you're hiding
1:18:32it with booze or or drugs or whatever it
1:18:35is your thing is you know because that's
1:18:38what you do you know and that's what
1:18:39people start doing after 20 years of war
1:18:42I remember our first deployments were
1:18:44guys were all out in the bay getting
1:18:46their kit check check check ready to
1:18:49go fast forward three deployments guys
1:18:53are in their rooms you know drinking
1:18:55booze waiting to get on that plane for
1:18:59their number to be up it's a numberb
1:19:01game at a certain
1:19:03point to getting you know being drunk
1:19:06overseas to just trying to either feel
1:19:09or forget whatever it is whatever your
1:19:11pleasure is of the day trying to feel or
1:19:13forget and and then they come back and
1:19:15think I don't need help I'm
1:19:17good like I want a mentally strong
1:19:19Warrior next to me they'll be physically
1:19:22strong but I want them mentally strong
1:19:25and to do that you kind of need to know
1:19:26what's going on at home you kind of need
1:19:28to be invested in your people know
1:19:30what's going on at home so you can
1:19:32understand why they're behaving the way
1:19:32they're
1:19:35behaving I think that's great advice man
1:19:38and
1:19:39uh I want to call a break but um I just
1:19:42want to say God bless your friends man
1:19:46your teammates I know that was tough
1:19:49thanks let's take a
1:19:51break
1:19:54ladies and gentlemen it has been a
1:19:57minute since I've done a bubs Naturals
1:20:00commercial but it has not been a minute
1:20:03since I've taken the best [ __ ] of my
1:20:08entire life actually just knocked one
1:20:10out this morning it was amazing and I'm
1:20:13going to give you the secret you ready
1:20:14here's the secret you want the secret
1:20:16for the best [ __ ] of your entire life
1:20:19that you could do I don't know every day
1:20:21maybe multiple times a day
1:20:23here's a
1:20:24secret bubs Naturals cagen peptid says
1:20:28it's good for joints Hair Skin and Nails
1:20:33I'm surprised I don't put on there it'll
1:20:34give you the best [ __ ] of your entire
1:20:36life but hey I get it right and you mix
1:20:39that with the Halo creamer that's MCT
1:20:42oil put these two
1:20:45together you're going to have a
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1:20:51both whole 30 approved NSF certified
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1:21:01of that hold on wait there's more if
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1:21:14Coffee Bean Whole 30 approved if you can
1:21:16believe that and we all know coffee can
1:21:19you know speed things up a little bit in
1:21:21the morning but hold on wait there's
1:21:24more apple cider vinegar
1:21:28gummies guys I'm going to be honest I
1:21:30don't know exactly what these things do
1:21:33for you but uh here it says promotes
1:21:37energy immune support promotes healthy
1:21:40digestion and supports healthy
1:21:43metabolism I can tell you one thing good
1:21:46luck just eating one of these things
1:21:48because at the end of the night I will
1:21:50crush an entire bottle of these
1:21:53that will not give you the best [ __ ] of
1:21:55your life I wouldn't recommend it it
1:21:56will speed things up but you may not
1:21:58like the final outcome and hold on wait
1:22:02there's more there's more bubs came out
1:22:04with a lot of new products they have
1:22:06these hydrate or diey hydration packets
1:22:11great for post-workout all this stuff is
1:22:14great for post-workout especially the uh
1:22:16cagen protein guys here's another thing
1:22:19about bubs bubs is a tribute company
1:22:22it's named after Glenn bubs dhy who is a
1:22:25Navy SEAL and CIA contractor he died
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1:22:32bubs donates a portion of every order to
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1:22:44on Veterans Day every year I love this
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1:24:11for Americans by
1:24:16Americans all right Tom we're back from
1:24:18the break it's a nice break and uh so
1:24:22now we get the rest of your career which
1:24:24I'm going to be honest with you I don't
1:24:26even know how to cover all this we got
1:24:281996
1:24:30Bosnia Pakistan Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq
1:24:35again Iraq again Iraq
1:24:38again what sticks out to you the
1:24:47most the mission
1:24:51Iraq going north of Baghdad nope south
1:24:55of Baghdad sorry the rat
1:24:57line to a wedding party right because
1:25:00they always have guns at wedding
1:25:02parties plany assault um it was pretty
1:25:05far distance to have a qrf of tanks and
1:25:07Bradley's but I was going to roll them
1:25:09forward but I got overruled on that one
1:25:12like they'll stay here at the at the
1:25:13house and if you need them I'll send
1:25:14them
1:25:15and all right we probably won't need him
1:25:18anyway so screw it you know
1:25:20um infield to this wedding party and now
1:25:24that I'm headquarters element what
1:25:25sticks out the most is I'm in charge of
1:25:27people now right I've gone from a kid to
1:25:30I have souls under my control now and I
1:25:33don't want to screw that up so I'm
1:25:35landing outside you know I got guys
1:25:37landing on the roofs of this building
1:25:38Rangers are surrounding us again and
1:25:41head headquarters element me and Medics
1:25:43and EOD guys and you know whoever else
1:25:45doesn't go in First Landing out here out
1:25:48in this
1:25:49field and they took an RPG to the
1:25:52helicopter immediately they were it was
1:25:54a training facility they had all these
1:25:56weapons laid out underneath blankets and
1:25:58everything as soon as we hit they
1:25:59flipped them open and started shooting
1:26:01it was like man here we go again right
1:26:03didn't hit me yet like here we go
1:26:06again that helicopter dropped everybody
1:26:08off on the roof limped over crashed
1:26:10about 200 met away hard Landing 200
1:26:13meters away at the end of the field so
1:26:15that changed everything I had to send
1:26:16the Rangers over to secure that and
1:26:17check for any wounded so that took my
1:26:20out of perimeter most of it and that
1:26:22that they stayed there the entire
1:26:25night there was gunfire happening and
1:26:28then a guy comes squirting off the
1:26:29target without a weapon running didn't
1:26:33see us I'm sitting with my nods watching
1:26:34this we're in a flat slick mud field
1:26:36that hasn't been planted yet so you
1:26:37can't even walk it's very slippery that
1:26:39kind of stuff that six and sucks your
1:26:41shoes in and rips your shoes off when
1:26:43you're run into it so I'm like trying to
1:26:45move on this stuff quietly I'm like hey
1:26:46there's a dude coming you know he's
1:26:48running right towards us I'm like got my
1:26:49weapon on him got my weapon on him you
1:26:51know he's like he's coming right for us
1:26:53and then he takes off running off to the
1:26:54left you know he doesn't even know we
1:26:57there and he didn't have a weapon so I
1:26:59didn't shoot him right and uh he ends up
1:27:02digging around in the bush over here to
1:27:03my left in between the Target and he's
1:27:06off to left and I can't shoot him
1:27:07because the Rangers are behind him
1:27:09now so I'm like I'm going to creep up on
1:27:11him I'm gonna deal with his cat so I can
1:27:13get on doing my business you know so me
1:27:15and the medic go creeping him up in the
1:27:16sky and he turns and sees us just takes
1:27:18off running towards Target I'm like I
1:27:21can't shoot him right wanted to but he
1:27:22wasn't
1:27:23armed so instead of a squirter off a
1:27:26Target I get on the ra I'm screaming
1:27:27there's a squirter onto the target
1:27:29there's a squirter coming on the target
1:27:30I he what next thing you know I see
1:27:32lasers from the roof this dude flips up
1:27:34a blanket reaches down and grabs a
1:27:36weapon he doesn't see the lasers I see
1:27:38all the lasers and everyone else in
1:27:40Target sees the lasers like literally it
1:27:42was like a a flower pedal of Raz lasers
1:27:45soon as he touch that weapon he was that
1:27:47was it he didn't think anything else you
1:27:49know and I was like all right I'm coming
1:27:50on the Target now guys turn off those
1:27:52lasers so I brought everybody on the
1:27:54target there were squirters everywhere
1:27:57made my way inside send the commander to
1:27:59the roof um still dealing with stuff and
1:28:02I'm starting to talk to the guys on
1:28:04target which is now that's kind of my
1:28:05job roll in control the whole thing and
1:28:08then talk to detainees and try to figure
1:28:10out if there's another Target I can go
1:28:11hit right away before we head
1:28:13back I'm talking to one of them and I I
1:28:16hear this radio call hey I got a squirt
1:28:19and and then I hear this boom and I feel
1:28:20the explosion and and it was in a back
1:28:22room of the
1:28:24house I thought [ __ ] and I looked at
1:28:26that dude I go you better hope none of
1:28:27my men are freaking injured or I'm going
1:28:29to make this a bad day for you you know
1:28:31and the tur's
1:28:33like I get a call on the radio hey uh
1:28:36it's uh stinky and K man they followed a
1:28:39dude into a room and soon as he turned
1:28:40around before you know before they could
1:28:42kill him he clacked it off so they were
1:28:43shooting him as he clacked it off he's
1:28:46like Kevin's really bad he's like pull
1:28:49me he like Kevin's really really bad and
1:28:51I remember looking at him going I don't
1:28:53give a [ __ ] you know I can't give a [ __ ]
1:28:57I have like 40 other people I have to
1:28:59give a [ __ ] about you know let's pack
1:29:01him up and get him out of here you know
1:29:02so call in the Met back I did give a
1:29:05[ __ ] right but I I don't like to hear
1:29:06that stuff on the target
1:29:09mhm and that brought me that was a
1:29:11second thing that took me back to
1:29:12Somalia was in Somalia on one of the
1:29:14hits I shotgun a door open with a
1:29:18slug then I went off and cleared the
1:29:20room and then uh my two he came in he
1:29:22goes hey you know you shot a
1:29:24woman I was like what he goes you know
1:29:28when you breach that door it went
1:29:30through that door and through the next
1:29:32wall and it went into woman's leg and
1:29:33I'm
1:29:35like I'm okay I'm sorry you know he's
1:29:38like go in there and take care of her so
1:29:39I'm going to packaging her up bandage
1:29:41her up put her on stretcher me and me
1:29:42and friend are carrying her out on
1:29:43xville going to put her on a
1:29:45Humvee and you know brought her back
1:29:47took care of her and everything she's
1:29:48probably the richest woman in
1:29:50Soma
1:29:52so that struck me you know as a similar
1:29:55as a similar thing and then the Hilo
1:29:59crashing and then that room getting
1:30:00blown up and then this guy standing and
1:30:02I want to do the metac right away but I
1:30:06can't cuz we're taking fire from
1:30:07everywhere I've lost all the Outer
1:30:08Perimeter Rangers so we're taking fire
1:30:10from different houses and I want to use
1:30:11the ac130 they they can pick up all this
1:30:14[ __ ] and they're looking at it and
1:30:15they're telling me what's going on it's
1:30:16like okay I need accountability I got
1:30:18Rangers over there I've got team members
1:30:20squirting everywhere taking down all
1:30:21these hous is in this
1:30:23compound I got a guy blown up I need to
1:30:25bring a medac in and uh give me a head
1:30:28count all we're missing one dude missing
1:30:30one
1:30:31guy find out what team he was on find
1:30:33out who it was and I go where was he
1:30:35last scen go back that way find out who
1:30:37he is I can't you know I can't suppress
1:30:39targets I know whereby he's at and I
1:30:40can't bring medac till I suppress
1:30:42targets Meanwhile my Commander's going
1:30:45hey they're calling me from The Jock
1:30:47they want to send a Hilo with the team
1:30:49on it to go after that squirter that's
1:30:51in a building three blocks away hell I
1:30:53don't know you know and I go tell them
1:30:56no and I took off running you know the
1:30:58and then the the fires guy comes over
1:31:00hey we' got a group of cars coming in to
1:31:02our Target at high rated speed I go take
1:31:04them out hey later hey we got a group of
1:31:07car cars leaving the area you know with
1:31:09guys in the back with guns I go take
1:31:10them out stop asking me how to do your
1:31:12damn job do your job Commander comes
1:31:14back to me hey they really want us to
1:31:15chase these squirts they go tell them no
1:31:17I got a lot going on still looking for a
1:31:20guy right I'm not going to send more
1:31:21people out I'm still looking for one guy
1:31:23so I can suppress fire they don't know
1:31:24what's going on on the ground right they
1:31:26want they want [ __ ] done third time I
1:31:28make it to the roof to pass information
1:31:31to the boss he's like hey they really
1:31:32want you to send me yes because he was
1:31:35that was new for him that was his first
1:31:36hit with me because my other boss had
1:31:38gone home um so he was my new boss and
1:31:41even though I knew him I was his I was
1:31:42his instructor in OTC now he's my
1:31:45boss I go give me that radio he hand he
1:31:48took it from and I took it from his
1:31:50radio guy and I go negative I'm not
1:31:52sending anybody out for squirters I'm
1:31:53working I'm working the target here I'm
1:31:55working finding a missing man I got a
1:31:56down Hilo out I threw it back up I go
1:31:58that's how you do it you know and I took
1:32:00off went about to do my job and then
1:32:03finally somebody come back hey we found
1:32:04old boy we got him back okay suppress
1:32:06fire suppress Fire's now let me know
1:32:08when it's done where was he what's going
1:32:11on and and another thing that struck me
1:32:13the backtrack sorry I'm on the roof
1:32:15after that bird went down I'm the one
1:32:17calling Blackhawk
1:32:19Down I had to make that call
1:32:23again I'm going to stuck there all
1:32:26night didn't bring extra water and I'm
1:32:29on the roof going I did it again man I
1:32:32did it again I let this happen and I was
1:32:35pissed at myself one I was thirsty we
1:32:38had our nods but I didn't have extra
1:32:40water had a Blackhawk Down had dudes
1:32:43missing finally got him back suppressing
1:32:44the fire and I go what what happened
1:32:46where was he was he in the I mean what's
1:32:48going on how do you have one guy out on
1:32:50his own well he was out talking to a
1:32:54cow yeah I did that too I go
1:32:57what goes yeah he was out talking to C I
1:33:00go okay he goes on the Medevac bird with
1:33:01the with the injured when when we go out
1:33:03he's dehydrated right I figure he must
1:33:05be dehydrated he's acting weird Medevac
1:33:08finally got them back that's the first
1:33:10time I found out what a dark team
1:33:12was cuz I'm like blow that helicopter in
1:33:15place and we're out of here you know
1:33:17negative we're going to send in a dart
1:33:18team I go I get up back on the radio go
1:33:21what's a dart team a down fcra aircraft
1:33:24rescue team and I go that
1:33:27exists yeah we're going to send out some
1:33:29test pilots some parts that you need
1:33:31they're going to put it on the
1:33:31helicopter and then they'll fly it out
1:33:33of there and I go how long's that [ __ ]
1:33:35take you know like I'm under Fire I
1:33:38already called for the qrf you didn't
1:33:39roll the qrf everything's kind of
1:33:41settled but we've been here a long time
1:33:43now that doesn't you know take much for
1:33:45people to trickle in and figure out
1:33:46what's going
1:33:47on so we go through that process all
1:33:50night of fixing the helicopter you know
1:33:53and
1:33:53finally
1:33:55um they take off you know they're
1:33:58limping out of there and they take off I
1:33:59right load everything up we load the
1:34:00hilos up and we left and there was a
1:34:02huge cachier of explosives in the in the
1:34:04garage that we left in the car that we
1:34:06found so anybody in the Target that
1:34:08wasn't bad stay away from this house
1:34:10it's not going to be good for three days
1:34:12so we told them to stay away for like
1:34:14days we flew back found out that the
1:34:16helicopter had to make a hard Landing
1:34:18somewhere else and they worked through
1:34:19that on their own and picked back up and
1:34:20Limp to the rear I'm like thank goodness
1:34:22this is over then I went to the talk and
1:34:24watched them bomb that house you know
1:34:26and uh destroy that [ __ ] there then I
1:34:29started doing research on what happened
1:34:31to my guy that was talking to a cow and
1:34:33how how's my other guy doing um he he
1:34:35ended up doing all right the guy that
1:34:36got blown up was
1:34:38fine the other guy thought it was he
1:34:40dehydrated I went down and was looking
1:34:42in his room asking his teammates like
1:34:43what's going on and there's there's
1:34:44ambient on the table there's ambient
1:34:46over here there's ambient over there you
1:34:47know and I'm like [ __ ] tonight we take
1:34:50ambient then we roll out on a hit and we
1:34:52forgot we take ambient and so we take
1:34:53more ambient we roll out on hits and you
1:34:55on ambient talking to cows on a
1:34:57hit and it hit me that I'd
1:35:01failed cuz I should have been checking
1:35:03on on the guys and instead I wanted to
1:35:05be that cool leader that let them do
1:35:07their own thing in their own room you
1:35:08know and I won't look and just you know
1:35:10be there when I need you versus really
1:35:12taking care of them you know and finding
1:35:14out what was going on down there so that
1:35:15ended that day got him cleaned up ended
1:35:18up doing all
1:35:19right the other guy like I said end up
1:35:22being okay but that mission sticks out
1:35:25on top just because of the similarities
1:35:27of you
1:35:29know that that just went back and forth
1:35:32and took me back to Somalia you had
1:35:34mentioned a couple of times that you'd
1:35:36had flashbacks in combat back to Somalia
1:35:39but I don't believe you've ever had
1:35:40flashbacks from any other
1:35:42incidents how often did that
1:35:46happen
1:35:47smells take me right back that
1:35:50frequently um um I don't like bleach at
1:35:52my house too much when I hit it I'm like
1:35:54okay here comes the
1:35:56bleach um but smells take me back and
1:35:58that's
1:35:59often other missions would take me back
1:36:01with similarities that would
1:36:04happen the fourth of the time maybe and
1:36:08it was more of a what can I do what has
1:36:10happened before and then then I started
1:36:11thinking of it I'm like all right shake
1:36:13that [ __ ] off get back you know learn
1:36:14the lessons not the emotions with
1:36:17it that took me back a lot and then the
1:36:20spouses always takes me back but I don't
1:36:23go back to Iraq
1:36:25much to me Iraq was what I thought War
1:36:28would
1:36:29be I didn't do the Wild West thing as
1:36:32much in Iraq when it went hard in the
1:36:34west you know by then I was the S major
1:36:38of the task force so I'm sitting in a
1:36:40bunker in bad you know hating life and
1:36:43watching kill TV like you know but I'm
1:36:45not going to be the S major that goes
1:36:47out on a hit with you every night cuz I
1:36:48want to relive my life and you hate me
1:36:50because I'm on a a hit with you like
1:36:52happened with us you know we'd go on
1:36:53hits and adma mccraven or or general
1:36:55mcris I want to go on a hit with you I'm
1:36:57like stay in the vehicle and I'd get a
1:37:00call hey craen wants to come over I'm
1:37:01like no he doesn't no he doesn't want to
1:37:03come over here you know you don't want
1:37:05to come over here man you don't want to
1:37:06see any you know you want plausible
1:37:08deniability whatever so I you know I
1:37:10hated it when like the command element
1:37:12that doesn't go out on targets goes on a
1:37:15Target just experience it I'm like you
1:37:17don't I don't need a dead general or a
1:37:18dead Admiral in my hand you know I don't
1:37:20want that [ __ ]
1:37:22so I didn't go out with the guys I
1:37:23didn't want to you know and every now
1:37:24hey you want to go out with the guys you
1:37:26know I go no you can go someone's got to
1:37:28stay here and run this [ __ ] you know as
1:37:30much as I hate it I hate it less than
1:37:33they hate me showing up you know they
1:37:34got their team I get it and what what
1:37:37what year did
1:37:38you what year did you pull yourself from
1:37:41that role from going on
1:37:50target
1:37:52probably 2005 or six okay probably 2005
1:37:58or six because I started getting
1:37:59surgeries from getting messed up and I'd
1:38:03get that hey don't go back don't ever
1:38:04put a helmet on your head again and then
1:38:05four weeks later I'm running through
1:38:07fuia chasing a semi and my helmet on my
1:38:09head my neck started hurt I'm like oh
1:38:11man am I screwing this up again I'm fine
1:38:14another surgery you know then finally
1:38:15fuse the neck then it moves the lower
1:38:17back I just I just kept doing the thing
1:38:19you know that you shouldn't be doing
1:38:22just going back not listening to anybody
1:38:24but it
1:38:25wasn't I mean nothing was like
1:38:27Somalia nothing I think will ever be
1:38:29like
1:38:31that for me anyway obviously anymore but
1:38:35I never felt trapped I always had
1:38:37military around in Iraq you know there
1:38:39was always a regular army unit you could
1:38:40call in tanks and Bradley man I never
1:38:43had those before I used to take them on
1:38:44every hit hey you got two tanks and two
1:38:46brades do whatever you want with okay
1:38:49come on the hit with us stay like 500 M
1:38:52away or a couple hundred meters away 500
1:38:55M away you'll roll in once we hit the
1:38:56target you know and you'll hit on each
1:38:58corner and you'll scare people and if I
1:38:59need you I got you and I got asked by
1:39:01Sir major why do you take them all the
1:39:03time we used to do hits without ISR and
1:39:05I go yeah now we have ISR and you gather
1:39:08in tail before you go on the hit and you
1:39:09realize it's not worth going in blind
1:39:11unless it's necessary why do I take
1:39:13tanks and Brads cuz you told me I had
1:39:15them but you don't ever use them I go
1:39:17and the day I don't take them I'll need
1:39:18them it just sounds really stupid are
1:39:20you worried about wasting gas or
1:39:21something man I mean so government so it
1:39:24was here's tanks and Brads but why are
1:39:26you using them uh y'all use everything
1:39:29you give me I you know I'll use it all
1:39:31every night if I could and uh to bring
1:39:34everybody home but it was
1:39:36uh Iraq as much as I expected it to
1:39:40be it was normal to me it was it was the
1:39:44job that we did you know and you're done
1:39:45with it and you're
1:39:47back you get creative you got boarded so
1:39:50you get creative like I want to climb
1:39:52this three-story building this time and
1:39:53attack from the top I'm like all right
1:39:55go ahead man we'll go in the bottom door
1:39:56you go up the top no need to but if you
1:39:59want to practice that TTP on a Target
1:40:01let's do it you know so then you end up
1:40:04working with the FBI and doing other
1:40:05things so you get to roll out and do
1:40:07different other than combat things as
1:40:09they go searching for people trying to
1:40:11poison the water system and whatnot
1:40:13you're just kind of securing them into a
1:40:15building and like you got 20 minutes max
1:40:18like 40 minutes later I just need a
1:40:20little more and like you're done you're
1:40:22out of here man we can't stay here that
1:40:23long um On Target you know they didn't
1:40:26get it they're showing up their black
1:40:27SUVs and we just intermingle with your
1:40:30convoy I'm like these guys don't
1:40:32understand they don't get it yeah I mean
1:40:35those guys didn't get it at the time as
1:40:37they were there they could have been new
1:40:38you know day one but searching salt
1:40:41shakers and I'm like this is not an FBI
1:40:43lab brother you got to get out of here
1:40:45if you want it all it's in a box you
1:40:46check it later you know you don't test
1:40:48it On Target that was interesting
1:40:52when you did get back from Somalia the
1:40:54next your next deployment was Bosnia
1:40:58correct yep either protecting generals
1:41:03well that's what I did was protecting
1:41:05generals so what how did that feel to go
1:41:09from that level of
1:41:12combat in Mogadishu to to Bosnia where
1:41:15you're protecting
1:41:17generals I think I looked at it like a
1:41:20not a sh job but an easy job like who's
1:41:23going to go after this guy right I mean
1:41:25he's surrounded by people all the time
1:41:26he's got Delta Force protecting him
1:41:28we're always planning the routes when we
1:41:30started we drove we drove the vehicles
1:41:32we pulled security it took double what
1:41:34we needed over there um cuz we didn't
1:41:36trust anybody do anything else when it
1:41:37slowed down we use the MPS from Germany
1:41:40to drive we train them up on how we
1:41:42wanted them to drive and yes you'll
1:41:44drive on the sidewalk Yes she'll run red
1:41:45lights and yes she'll push cars out of
1:41:47the way that's it you know you won't
1:41:49stop ever or we're going to pull you out
1:41:52and that's it for you they did pretty
1:41:53good you know and uh we just cut our
1:41:55numbers in half and just did the the the
1:41:57gun part
1:41:59and and a couple times I remember it's
1:42:02kind of funny doing these jobs you know
1:42:03you got other teams out doing pck stuff
1:42:05cha chasing the war criminals um and
1:42:08that was horrible to listen to a hit
1:42:10while you're pulling security for the
1:42:12general and he's on the in the talk he's
1:42:13like come on in with me you know and
1:42:14you're listening to them do a hit I
1:42:17remember him asking me after one hit
1:42:18he's like uh remember saying all right
1:42:19put the puppies back in the the box now
1:42:21until we need him again and I remember
1:42:22hearing him say that like like break
1:42:25glass in case of emergency kind of thing
1:42:26you know only bring the boys out for
1:42:28that and he turns and looks at me he
1:42:30goes how is that to you to listen to
1:42:32your boys do a hit over the radio and I
1:42:34go it's a lot like listening to somebody
1:42:36else your wife you know that's that's my
1:42:39job to be out there and now I'm in here
1:42:42doing this for you yeah that's what it
1:42:44feels like but somebody's got to do it
1:42:47and it was one of those it's almost a
1:42:48relaxing job you got to hang out in
1:42:50Bosnia and find a bar that might be open
1:42:53or grab some food at a restaurant that
1:42:54didn't get blown up and then some funny
1:42:57things like um the deputy Secretary
1:43:00General of the UN you know lands and
1:43:03drive over with the general in the back
1:43:04who wants to meet him and he hey the
1:43:06deputy secretary needs to make a phone
1:43:07call you know and he jumps in I just
1:43:10Armor All the seats you know when you're
1:43:11the driver you take care of everything
1:43:13and I was driving that the main limo at
1:43:14the
1:43:15time and he got in he kicks his loafers
1:43:18off and he gets in and just starts
1:43:20talking on the phone I'm like oh these
1:43:22people are different I said you might
1:43:24want to buckle up
1:43:26sir I start driving and the general he
1:43:28knew he buckled up and I'm I'm whipping
1:43:30around cars you know and I'm I'm getting
1:43:32it and he's sliding into the general
1:43:35he's sliding into the door cuz he didn't
1:43:36put a seat belt on I just Armor All the
1:43:38seat he slides back into the Journal
1:43:39phone he goes General's like hey Tom
1:43:43Secretary of general make a phone call
1:43:44you think you slow down and I looked in
1:43:45the mirror and I go Hey sir how about
1:43:47you don't tell me how to do my job and I
1:43:48won't tell you to do yours and I went
1:43:50back to driving
1:43:51and I and it hit me
1:43:53like I just smarted off to like the man
1:43:58he goes did you hear that Tom just told
1:43:59me to f off I was like I didn't say that
1:44:01sir he laughed it off and I'm like all
1:44:03right he got it you know he got it which
1:44:05was good most wouldn't get that yeah but
1:44:09bosne was good um we stayed in one house
1:44:11by the Olympic tunnel we called it
1:44:13because of the Olympic symbols on the
1:44:14tunnel some of them ripped off and and
1:44:16uh neighbors were getting their lights
1:44:17shot out and window shot and sniper
1:44:21right I think a sniper and so me and my
1:44:24roommate sat up at the house and I was
1:44:26up you know I was downstairs by the door
1:44:28with my pistol waiting in a chair he was
1:44:31upstairs watching out and then up creeps
1:44:33this dude with a rifle he's we're on
1:44:36little walk he's like now and open the
1:44:37door the dude takes off and I chasing
1:44:40him through Bosnia with my pistol up the
1:44:42seill run I'm starting to run out of
1:44:44breath like who's this dude man finally
1:44:46catch him towards the end throw him to
1:44:48the ground and get him it's a damn kid
1:44:50with a be BB
1:44:52gun I almost shot him and I I went
1:44:55knocking door to door his parents were
1:44:57on vacation and like Spain or something
1:44:58and they left the kids at home in Bosnia
1:45:00in
1:45:01Saro and I almost shot the kid cuz he's
1:45:04just doing kid [ __ ] you know in a war
1:45:06zone that's even probably worse than a
1:45:07war zone so I went knocking on neighbors
1:45:09doors and they were happy as [ __ ] to
1:45:11grab that kid and take him on the cops
1:45:12showed up you know and they were all
1:45:14happy because they were sick of their
1:45:16[ __ ] getting shot up with with his BB
1:45:17gun you know and they end up calling his
1:45:19parents or whatever and became friends
1:45:21with the neighbors in but there was
1:45:23things that happened there that were
1:45:24just kind of fun we found some
1:45:25explosives underneath the bridge when
1:45:27the pope visited and turned it into the
1:45:29pope team like I'm not touching that
1:45:31[ __ ] you know and they came and fixed it
1:45:32up and like it's happy but things like
1:45:35that would happen people would show up
1:45:36and you'd have to help escort them
1:45:39around but was an easy
1:45:42job until you're needed right until
1:45:44you're need it then it's a [ __ ] job but
1:45:45that was kind of a a relaxing job for me
1:45:47we did that two or three uh rotations
1:45:51couple years yeah um guys going at
1:45:53different teams going in and out interm
1:45:55England teams
1:45:57um and I think also we did the CT
1:46:00Olympics in '95 that
1:46:03year and I was on that team training up
1:46:05for that team made that team and uh
1:46:08where you compete with all the other
1:46:09counter terrorist units around the world
1:46:11in Germany and uh made the team was
1:46:15rehearsing some stuff and jumped off a
1:46:17moving trailer to go shoot some targets
1:46:19and rolled my ankle
1:46:20I heard it snap I'm like I hop up I'm
1:46:23like I got it man I got it you know I
1:46:25got to make the team I end up going over
1:46:27as a watcher I got pulled um it sucked
1:46:31man but it was it was fun to watch it
1:46:33was good to be there for it but uh it
1:46:35was one of those hard breaking things
1:46:37you know I got a call I was in Jackson
1:46:39hille at a ski trip setting up a ski
1:46:41trip my team leader calls me it was a
1:46:43Friday I'm getting drunk right I'm in
1:46:45the hotel getting drunk it's a Friday he
1:46:46goes hey we're trying out for the CT
1:46:49Olympics on Monday you're coming coming
1:46:50I go what I get back Sunday night yeah
1:46:52be here Monday morning with
1:46:54tryouts all right I finish getting drunk
1:46:57wake up Saturday night get drunk Sunday
1:46:58morning get up we fly in late Sunday
1:47:00night and I get up and did the tryouts
1:47:02and made it I was like all right just CU
1:47:04he made me because he made me do it I'm
1:47:07glad he did it was a good experience
1:47:10though when did you start where did you
1:47:13go from you went to Pakistan in
1:47:172000 yeah that was a more of a house
1:47:19things going over over there like how do
1:47:21they receive Americans and kind of
1:47:24what's going on and see how much um
1:47:26information you can gather and pass back
1:47:28and we landed in
1:47:30Islamabad um checked in with the embassy
1:47:33they wanted us to do some kind of
1:47:34surveys on their Embassy for I walked in
1:47:37I go first thing screwed up is you got
1:47:38palm trees you planted out in this
1:47:40soccer field yeah yeah ambor likes palm
1:47:43trees does he like to land helicopters
1:47:44when he needs them too cuz you can't
1:47:46land a helicopter anymore right you've
1:47:47taken up all your Hilo space for for Neo
1:47:50you know so got them to cut all the
1:47:52trees down which he loved and then kind
1:47:54of and it just recently burnt down they
1:47:56built a new one too so that was good
1:47:59hung out with the Brits in their Embassy
1:48:00for a bit I mean we really weren't doing
1:48:02much in his lamad it's like Washington
1:48:04DC all the buildings look great all the
1:48:05streets are wide for the parades and
1:48:07really nobody's there so we get in a car
1:48:09and drive to lore and Pasha or um to
1:48:12where the caddies and the golf you know
1:48:14have carry AKs and [ __ ] this one of
1:48:17those towns you're in I was like all
1:48:18right I don't know if I want to leave
1:48:19this hotel you know this is you know
1:48:21this is one of those towns where we're
1:48:22not really welcome and we didn't you
1:48:24know you don't realize you're ramping up
1:48:26to a war but um gather as much
1:48:28information as we could how the roads
1:48:30were how the people were um and I
1:48:33remember being in one of the hotels and
1:48:36it's like there's no bar
1:48:38here of course you're in a Muslim
1:48:39country right there's no bar here I'm
1:48:41looking around like oh no you can go to
1:48:43the seventh floor and if you show your
1:48:44passport you can get a drink I'm like oh
1:48:46oh I got you we go up there show our
1:48:48passports we're not muslim okay
1:48:50turns around he's got warm beers on the
1:48:52shelf and I'm like all right never mind
1:48:54it's not worth it but it was a
1:48:57interesting trip with those Jenga
1:48:59vehicles and people hanging off of them
1:49:00in the buses and and that's where you
1:49:02learn where the biggest vehicle has a
1:49:03rideway even if they're wrong and you're
1:49:05right you know you get run off the road
1:49:07by those buses all the time over there
1:49:08so it's kind of it's kind of a trick to
1:49:11drive a car over
1:49:14there by this point I think you go to
1:49:19Iraq in ' 03 correct so that
1:49:24was seven
1:49:26years yeah right when 911 kicked
1:49:31off they picked me to go set up the
1:49:33invasion of Afghanistan so I fly out to
1:49:36White Sand set up this whole training
1:49:38area the unit will fly in and they'll do
1:49:41these hits and practice desert Mobility
1:49:42which was my dream job been on Mobility
1:49:45team the whole time didn't do Mobility
1:49:47[ __ ] I wanted to do mobility in the
1:49:49desert at War I was so excited went out
1:49:52to White Sands New Mexico landed I had
1:49:54my medic with me and and you know CCT
1:49:56guy or whatever to set up stuff open up
1:49:59my suitcase and there's a card in I'm
1:50:00like oh cool a card you know open it up
1:50:04started reading it said don't send
1:50:06flowers don't call this is the second
1:50:09year you missed our
1:50:11anniversary I shut my card put it away I
1:50:13was like looked at my medic I go I'm
1:50:16screwed man I'm really
1:50:19screwed finished that trip came home get
1:50:21the debrief and I told my S major like
1:50:23hey uh I kind of got this I need to go
1:50:27home and smooth things over and he's
1:50:28like you need to go be an
1:50:31instructor I go no no no no no no I need
1:50:34to go do Mobility but I need to go home
1:50:36and smooth this over
1:50:37first cuz now you're way past your time
1:50:41you've been a team leader way too long
1:50:44it's time to go to to be an instructor
1:50:46when you come back you be a troop star
1:50:49major
1:50:50so right when 911 kicked off I went for
1:50:53two years to being an
1:50:54instructor I was freaking out I was
1:50:57freaking out right then my first
1:51:00introduction to Iraq was at the end of
1:51:02my time training our our shoot house was
1:51:05going on was under reconstruction so I
1:51:07was up at the FBI shoot house up up near
1:51:09quanico teaching up there and I was
1:51:12handing it over to the next guy taking
1:51:14it and I packed up flew to Iraq to do
1:51:17like a leader Recon of what's going on
1:51:19when on a couple hits with another
1:51:21Squadron and then came back and then I
1:51:23would take my troop over
1:51:26next and so that was interesting just to
1:51:28go over for like a week run with another
1:51:31Squadron just to get your feet on the
1:51:32ground and see what's going on and
1:51:33listen to the leaders and then come back
1:51:35and then take your triop over was pretty
1:51:36good let's
1:51:38rewind cuz I was getting ready to ask
1:51:41you after Somalia how you received
1:51:45incoming Delta
1:51:48Dice and then you told me now you're an
1:51:51instructor yeah there was a lot of
1:51:55blackhog down lessons everybody wanted
1:51:58to
1:51:59learn and we were ready to impart them
1:52:01on everybody we wanted everyone to know
1:52:03and whenever somebody would you know you
1:52:05teach it and then it they do it at
1:52:06something anyway the way they've always
1:52:07been taught you know you have to pull
1:52:10them in and start talking about listen
1:52:12the reason you don't do this is this and
1:52:13this is what we found here and here and
1:52:15here and like oh okay you know got to
1:52:16get past that but the way we would do it
1:52:18was like listen [ __ ] you know and
1:52:20grab him over and so I think somebody
1:52:22told Jen at one
1:52:23point that I'd worked with for well
1:52:26worked for me for years was man I
1:52:28thought all those guys were you know
1:52:30bipolar [ __ ] you know from Somalia
1:52:32they were all just crazy idiots it's
1:52:35like oh yeah maybe we do talk a little
1:52:36harsh you know and you don't soften your
1:52:39Edge there anyway so whatever they got
1:52:41was what they were going to get the
1:52:42whole
1:52:42time but I heard that from other people
1:52:45from other unit members like yeah Tom's
1:52:48fair but he's an [ __ ] you know and
1:52:50that was my moniker I was proud of that
1:52:51yeah I'm fair for sure but I'm an
1:52:54[ __ ] yeah yeah I'll be an [ __ ] I
1:52:56don't care you know that's easy to
1:52:58accept and I realized no they're serious
1:53:00they meant it you know I took them on a
1:53:02hit in Iraq one time it was Christmas
1:53:04Day and I was bored and I'm like we hit
1:53:07it we hit a Target the night
1:53:10before and they had lied to us I could
1:53:12tell they I knew they lied to us we
1:53:13found it from one other person they had
1:53:14lied to us one person we took off the
1:53:16Target that they had lied about some
1:53:17things and it's now it's Christmas Day
1:53:19and we're just sting around taking the
1:53:20day off and I thought well the guys are
1:53:22probably bored aren't they pulled out
1:53:24the packet from right across the river
1:53:26from the house with the night before and
1:53:27I go all right get the team leaders in
1:53:29here we got to hit you know they come in
1:53:30I'm like I want to keep these guys busy
1:53:32so don't think about Christmas at home
1:53:33and y y y when I did the hit again came
1:53:37back Christmas day is
1:53:39over I think two years ago I was talking
1:53:42telling that story to some guys who were
1:53:45there like yeah oh man we just wanted to
1:53:47relax and chill I was like I thought
1:53:50y'all wanted to go be busy you know like
1:53:52no we'd been busy we just wanted to
1:53:53chill and I was like I'm was taking that
1:53:55Somalia thing like let's keep going
1:53:56right let's keep going and I learned a
1:53:58lot there well later that uh you know I
1:54:02should have slowed it down a little bit
1:54:03even for even for those guys even for
1:54:05the guys in the unit not everybody wants
1:54:08to or has that trauma where you got to
1:54:10keep going all the time you know they
1:54:12haven't been exposed to like that much
1:54:14trauma so I look back now I'm like wow
1:54:17no wonder we seem kind of harsh and
1:54:18rough they didn't understand it they
1:54:20hadn't seen that yet you know and then
1:54:23at some point you start getting people
1:54:24that have been to war M with the Rangers
1:54:26and with SF and so they had already
1:54:28deployed and they come back they still
1:54:30join the unit and they just want to go
1:54:31do more you know I applaud those guys CU
1:54:34they saw what it was like they wanted to
1:54:35elevate it more you know or maybe they
1:54:37sat in a fob and hated it and wanted to
1:54:39do
1:54:40more so I got applaud you people that
1:54:42joined the military during war I joined
1:54:45for cash when we weren't at War you know
1:54:47we hadn't been at war in a long time
1:54:49that I knew of so I applaud everybody
1:54:51that signed up after
1:54:55911 so you really had not seen you
1:54:58didn't see any combat in Pakistan
1:55:00correct you didn't see anything crazy in
1:55:04Bosnia now um I'm trying to think if
1:55:07they mortared much you know you'd see
1:55:08mortar rounds and trees you like I hope
1:55:10that didn't go off you could you could
1:55:11have stepped on a land mine at some
1:55:12point if you got off a trail I mean they
1:55:14were everywhere it would take the
1:55:16general for a run and there'd be
1:55:17landmines off right off the path and
1:55:19they're all marked and everything but
1:55:21I'm like can they just go off if they go
1:55:24bad you know it's like shouldn't we just
1:55:25remove them but they it was a Non-Stop
1:55:27operation there so the reason I'm asking
1:55:30is you had about seven
1:55:32years without combat yeah
1:55:39so were you worried how you would
1:55:42react when combat came back around did
1:55:45it did it did it did the previous trauma
1:55:50affect your mindset of going back to war
1:55:53when you knew it was
1:55:55coming I think I I I know I thought at
1:55:59the time that I had Reed myself I wanted
1:56:03to vindicate myself
1:56:06um and I was ready to go back I wasn't
1:56:09afraid I was probably cocky and
1:56:12stupid and I knew it was in a different
1:56:14role that's what that that's what made
1:56:16me afraid was is a different role
1:56:18instead of run around and breaking [ __ ]
1:56:20you know and I had stallion in in my
1:56:22command and you know I had to pull back
1:56:24on the reins and keep them from doing
1:56:25crazy stuff like I used to do it's like
1:56:28now you're mom and dad you know you got
1:56:29to keep the kids in line and it was uh
1:56:32terrifying for me to lose one of them I
1:56:36didn't I didn't think or care about me
1:56:38right I mean that's an easy thing for me
1:56:41but any one of them it terrified me to
1:56:43no
1:56:44end to the point before I'd go out on
1:56:47every hit you know once I did radio
1:56:49checks and shut the door and locked it
1:56:50up and called all right
1:56:51roll I'd close my eyes and by before we
1:56:54got out the gate it was one of those
1:56:56prayers to God let me make the right
1:56:58decisions let me bring all my men home
1:57:00by making the right decisions don't let
1:57:02me shoot the wrong people you know let
1:57:05this be a clean easy hit no bullets
1:57:07fired I don't care but please help me
1:57:09bring everybody back and I'm like all
1:57:10right I'm done with god let's go you
1:57:11know and I roll out the gate and it was
1:57:12just back to straight not evil but evil
1:57:16thoughts of there's no goodness you know
1:57:18I thought there was no good in war so I
1:57:20had to get rid of all the good what was
1:57:22the first what was the first engagement
1:57:24you had after
1:57:32Somalia the first real one there was a
1:57:34lot of smaller ones little hostage
1:57:36Rescue of an Iraqi here and there or go
1:57:38hit this target you know and you find a
1:57:40guy locked in a room from the outside
1:57:42with a gun tape to his hand like
1:57:44another criminal guy another gang member
1:57:47whatever wanted him dead so they would
1:57:49use US pass off information I'm like why
1:57:51is this locked on the outside you know
1:57:53what I mean why who's in there that it's
1:57:55locked he's a prisoner you know and then
1:57:56guys went in and he's got a gun tape to
1:57:57his hand but they didn't shoot him and I
1:57:59like cut the gun off like uh thank you
1:58:01you know I was like I don't know your
1:58:02deal but you're going to the Pokey right
1:58:04I'm done with you I don't know who you
1:58:05are but those things would
1:58:09happen but the one I remember the big
1:58:11one was Halloween night um I couldn't
1:58:13tell you what year it was we rolled out
1:58:15with the
1:58:16SAS and there was a Target in I want to
1:58:20say
1:58:22ratti ratti or fua I want to say
1:58:26ratti and we rolled up with a ra we
1:58:28rolled up
1:58:31into this ratti first from Baghdad or
1:58:34fuia anyway rolled up into one of those
1:58:36towns Radia fua talk to the regular army
1:58:40and that the whole day started with we
1:58:42got this hit blah blah blah okay bring
1:58:44in the team leaders let the team leaders
1:58:46plan the team leaders bring in their
1:58:47teams they plan and then they turn brief
1:58:49it to me and the boss and I was like
1:58:51sounds good to me right you're not doing
1:58:53anything tactically wrong my job is
1:58:55really just to make sure you don't do
1:58:56something stupid the boss is like well I
1:58:58think we need to change this or that
1:59:00blah blah blah and I'm like no you're
1:59:03not the one going in the door they're
1:59:05going in the door they're comfortable
1:59:07with a plan it's not it's tactically
1:59:09sound we approve it well I think now no
1:59:13stop sweet all right all right
1:59:16approved we drive out we link up with
1:59:18that um a regular army unit who's going
1:59:21to help you know pull security Force cuz
1:59:24probably was ratti and we were going
1:59:25into fuia a little worried about fuia so
1:59:27we brought in a regular army unit with
1:59:28us we had their Bradley's as
1:59:32well we're rolling in with the SAS and I
1:59:35remember as we we're flying down the
1:59:37main road and then the guy's navigating
1:59:40and all a sudden he locks up his brakes
1:59:42you know like oh I missed a turn and he
1:59:44did he almost missed a turn so he locks
1:59:45up his brakes on his Humvee which caused
1:59:48the second one to crash in him which
1:59:49causes us the third one to crash and the
1:59:51second one I went flying out land on the
1:59:53hood and guys are like ah hurt their
1:59:54backs and everything I'm like great
1:59:56we're in the middle of the street we
1:59:57just crashed into each other right it's
2:00:00like Keystone Cops you know anybody hurt
2:00:01no we're all good vehicles running yeah
2:00:03we're all good all right continue to
2:00:04Target man I hope they didn't hear any
2:00:05of this you know we roll up on a
2:00:07Target and while we were talking and
2:00:10briefing the regular army unit before we
2:00:12left that's when my commander changed
2:00:15the plan on his own back to the one he
2:00:17wanted talking to the Colonel with a
2:00:19regular army unit on the hood of a
2:00:21Humvee being big guy you know we'll do
2:00:24this and that and this and that and I
2:00:27looked at the team leaders like that's
2:00:28not what we
2:00:29briefed I say it's nothing's going to
2:00:31get you killed it's not a good time to
2:00:33like bring it up now you can either a do
2:00:36what you planned to do originally and
2:00:37I'll deal with it later or B do this
2:00:39plan I said probably do this plan
2:00:41because that's what they all expect they
2:00:43agreed on I'm like okay good so we roll
2:00:46up and do that way what happened was we
2:00:47missed the inil
2:00:50information that I think the boss should
2:00:52be receiving that this is the target
2:00:55switch to or this is the target switch
2:00:56to this is a
2:00:57target everybody missed that so the scas
2:01:01roll up in front of this target get out
2:01:03and walk to this
2:01:05target empty so they do the whole street
2:01:07this way we did the same thing we hit
2:01:09this house do the whole street this way
2:01:12fought you know worked our way
2:01:14back and then the Brits work their way
2:01:16back and they're like hey mate we're
2:01:17going to go in one more gate before we
2:01:18load up like all right soon as they open
2:01:21the gate to that that house where their
2:01:23vehicles were parked in front of rpk
2:01:25opens up from the front door Brit drops
2:01:28dead another Brit wounded they get drug
2:01:31out it just all Hill Breaks
2:01:34Loose that house was full of foreign
2:01:36fighters in Black pajamas like nobody's
2:01:38business they were on the roof they had
2:01:40RPGs laid out they were in the house
2:01:42they had IEDs ready to roll probably
2:01:44fresh out of Syria just got their track
2:01:47suits passports taken away so they can
2:01:49never leave again handing their guns and
2:01:50probably going to move them somewhere to
2:01:51go do a hit
2:01:55somewhere so we line up the Bradley's
2:01:57you know and the Brits loaded that dude
2:01:59up and took off back to ratti in their
2:02:02vehicle
2:02:03alone without telling us I called in a
2:02:05medac ends up Landing in middle of the
2:02:07street with fire you know coming this
2:02:09way all right bring in the Brit there's
2:02:11Rd xfield I'm like where's the head
2:02:13count what's going on here get that Hilo
2:02:15out of there was unneeded start tearing
2:02:17down the front wall with the Bradley
2:02:19just tearing down the front wall um fire
2:02:21toe missiles into the house you know
2:02:23trying to suppress all those guys the
2:02:25command called up hey we want to send
2:02:26some high Mars your way I'm like wait a
2:02:28minute what I'm across the street I got
2:02:31Brits across the street in the other
2:02:32direction you want to hit one
2:02:35house with rockets from say I don't know
2:02:38somewhere in the middle of the desert
2:02:39yeah man they're great no no I don't
2:02:41want rockets I don't trust Rockets you
2:02:43know so they kept tearing it up with the
2:02:45vehicles and toes and they brought in
2:02:46some hilos and shot it up now it's time
2:02:48to go in
2:02:49time to go in and clean it up that's my
2:02:51job boss stays on top calls higher I go
2:02:55in I work the target he's like hey baby
2:02:58earlier he was trying to call fire
2:03:00missions hey fire mission Baby Woo on
2:03:03the roof like having a good time I'm
2:03:05like this ain't a good time for me
2:03:06really and by the way that's fire sport
2:03:08guy why don't you do your job talk to
2:03:11hire let me do my job work the target I
2:03:14tell you what's going on you tell higher
2:03:15don't do fire
2:03:16missions time to go into the building
2:03:18he's like I'm gonna go in the building
2:03:20with the teams I go that's my job you
2:03:22stay on the roof you call up higher so
2:03:25I'm going
2:03:27in okay I'll stay on the roof and I'll
2:03:30do your job so they go in teams go in um
2:03:34they had to go up the next building
2:03:35climb on the roof and actually shoot the
2:03:36guys on the roof go get the guys inside
2:03:39to wake their way upstairs it's so
2:03:40destroyed trying to get up the broken
2:03:42stairwells you know and there's an old
2:03:44guy laying underneath they told me with
2:03:45a garage remote control with a red light
2:03:47going off pushing it trying to detonate
2:03:49but it had separated you know the
2:03:54blast they were piling out the back into
2:03:56where the Brits were and the Brits were
2:03:57catching them or smoking them whichever
2:03:59they needed to do and we emptied the
2:04:00whole house and finally cleaned
2:04:02everything up and headed back and we got
2:04:05back I walked in the door I walked in
2:04:06the talk and I looked at the Ser major
2:04:08and the commander I go can I talk to you
2:04:09guys for a
2:04:11minute yeah they came out onto the front
2:04:13porch of our house in Baghdad and I
2:04:15looked at him I said
2:04:17listen it's him or me
2:04:19let leaving
2:04:21tonight I can't do this anymore he had
2:04:24done something else on an earlier
2:04:26mission where we were catching little
2:04:28Saddam that the guy that was on you know
2:04:30behind Saddam as a security guy in the
2:04:33early stages of the war and that dude
2:04:36was in the house and there was a huge
2:04:37television I mean a huge TV they were
2:04:39playing Xbox on you know and we went and
2:04:41rolled him up I looked at it and I know
2:04:44the law of land Warfare right you can
2:04:46take an enemy stuff and use it for the
2:04:48war and I looked at that TV and I'm like
2:04:50that would look good in our talk man
2:04:52that thing's
2:04:53huge I told one of the heavy breach go
2:04:55hey get that thing off the wall I'm
2:04:57going next door and see what's going on
2:04:58let me know when you got off the wall
2:04:59we'll figure out how to put it in the
2:05:00vehicle you know and he's like all right
2:05:02I go next door and everything's cleared
2:05:03up cleaned up and I looked at the boss I
2:05:05go hey I got a nice TV on the way for
2:05:07the talk he goes huh you can't do that I
2:05:10go yeah you can you can't take money and
2:05:12use it but you can take anything and use
2:05:14it on the battlefield or use it for
2:05:16battle no you can't leave it I'm like
2:05:19I'm taking it with me I already called
2:05:21hire and told him I was bringing it back
2:05:23he goes no no you have to leave it he
2:05:26had done that in Afghanistan with his
2:05:28other troop with the same troop before I
2:05:29was there when they did a raid on a
2:05:32convoy they went by and they went down
2:05:33to check the vehicles and had sugar and
2:05:35coffee they've been out in the desert
2:05:36for like weeks and weeks didn't made
2:05:37that so they started taking sugar coffee
2:05:39off the vehicle and he made them dump it
2:05:40all out and so I told the heavy breaches
2:05:43I go negative smash it if I can't have
2:05:45it they can't have it you know so smash
2:05:46it came out goes I had to smash that TV
2:05:48man I go I know I can't take it back so
2:05:50I got back I called him out and told him
2:05:53and boss like where's the TV I go mhm he
2:05:56wouldn't let me bring it back
2:05:58so after the flu incident I said on on
2:06:01the front porch I goes him or me let's
2:06:03leaving tonight and the boss goes send
2:06:06him
2:06:08out that easy I was like [ __ ] I went in
2:06:11because we room together right and I
2:06:13went in there I laid down on my bed and
2:06:15I just stretching and I looked up I go
2:06:17oh hey the boss wants to see you on
2:06:18front porch he goes you know what about
2:06:20I go he just said to send you out he
2:06:22didn't tell me
2:06:24why and I only guessed why right he
2:06:27didn't tell me why I can only guess why
2:06:29he went on out he was out there for like
2:06:3115
2:06:32minutes he came back in I just started
2:06:34packing his
2:06:35bags he's like hey man I'm sorry no
2:06:38there's no reason to be sorry it's just
2:06:40you can't operate this
2:06:41way I've been here a long time you
2:06:45haven't and you'll be gone in a shorter
2:06:47time even if you stayed here here and
2:06:49I'll still be here it's not a power
2:06:51thing it's a let the team leaders do
2:06:54their thing thing and you're getting too
2:06:56involved and that's how officers don't
2:06:58make it
2:07:00here he went on to become a great you
2:07:02know Commander somewhere else just not
2:07:04there um that's when I got the new guy
2:07:06in and that's when the helicopter
2:07:08happened you know South so those kind of
2:07:10rolled a little bit back to back yeah
2:07:13but the first one was was uh the the
2:07:16Halloween night yeah that all happened
2:07:18on Halloween with the Brits and so we
2:07:20kind of dubbed that one I forgot what we
2:07:22called it something to do with Halloween
2:07:23man crashing on the way in wrong Intel
2:07:25on the well right Intel we didn't hear
2:07:28it just bad juju that
2:07:30night let's talk
2:07:33about Operation Red
2:07:38Dawn that was a good one you know the
2:07:40night
2:07:41before the night before we had a hit
2:07:44come up in
2:07:46Baghdad and it was like hey it's want us
2:07:48to saddam's Keepers and we've been
2:07:50chasing Saddam for a
2:07:52while let me back up let me back up to
2:07:56Thanksgiving proud of Thanksgiving I get
2:07:59called in by the SAR major in the talk
2:08:02and there's some guy in there in EN Clos
2:08:03with one of those scarfs on his neck you
2:08:05can tell y you're new to Iraq that's a
2:08:07cool scarf right so it's still cool to
2:08:09you and he's standing there he's like
2:08:11hey Tom this guy's a secret service from
2:08:13Texas he's one of President Bush's
2:08:17private security when he's at Texas is
2:08:19um the president has is going to dump
2:08:21his Security in DC he's going to go to
2:08:23Texas for Thanksgiving and then they're
2:08:25going to take a secret flight over here
2:08:27and I want your troop to pull protection
2:08:29at you know biop the Baghdad
2:08:30international
2:08:32airport it's like okay all right uh what
2:08:36do you want me to do and so guy Tony who
2:08:38took his own life after that took me out
2:08:42show him everything he wanted to do then
2:08:43we brought the teams out or the team
2:08:45guys out and he's like hey uh what can I
2:08:47tell him what can I because he told me
2:08:49not to tell him it was the president
2:08:50till the last second so I devised this
2:08:52story that it was a Dallas Cowboy
2:08:54Cheerleaders coming in to entertain the
2:08:56troops and we got to protect them like
2:08:57hell yeah I'll do that right so they
2:08:59were motivated we went out to the
2:09:01airport we practice our vehicle lineups
2:09:03and everything so we're out there
2:09:04Thanksgiving night you could hear the
2:09:07plane coming in and we're all waiting on
2:09:08the end of the runway and all a sudden
2:09:10you see Air Force One spiraling down and
2:09:12they all look over and I'm like all
2:09:13right I think now's a good time to tell
2:09:15you who's coming in it's not the
2:09:16cheerleaders I know it's going to piss
2:09:17you off but it's the president United
2:09:18States he's going to come serve some
2:09:19food and talk to the boys they were
2:09:22pissed
2:09:24pissed but then it and it picks up and
2:09:26they're like all right this is cool you
2:09:27know as soon as we're chasing Air Force
2:09:29One down the runway for no reason other
2:09:31than to catch up with it later you know
2:09:33and like why don't we just stay down
2:09:35this end of the runway we get out I mean
2:09:38we really didn't have much to do with it
2:09:40there was few Secret Service condalisa
2:09:42rice was there she's a little
2:09:43firecracker piled him in drove him over
2:09:46to the mess tent we followed him over
2:09:47surrounded and then I'm I'm not his AIC
2:09:50but I'm close to him you know and we're
2:09:52backstage and he's going to go talk to
2:09:54the Troops someone's talking about and
2:09:56you know who loves you the most blah
2:09:57blah blah building him up because I
2:09:59don't think they knew he was there yet
2:10:00because it was that surprise visit no
2:10:01one ever knew
2:10:03about and we're standing backstage and
2:10:05he's like all right hey you think you
2:10:09get Saddam did you get him yet like he
2:10:11didn't know and I looked at him I go
2:10:13well it'd be a good Christmas present
2:10:16wouldn't it well yeah that be real nice
2:10:18you know I think I'll go talk to these
2:10:20boys now and he took off and when Secret
2:10:21Service leans over and he goes did you
2:10:23just promise the president of United
2:10:24States you'd have sedam by Christmas and
2:10:26I go I hope not said I hope I didn't do
2:10:28that I hope he didn't take it that way
2:10:29he goes you don't say anything to
2:10:30president unless it's a positive
2:10:35sentence I said
2:10:37okay okay good to know now you know so
2:10:41he rolls out we roll back and and then
2:10:43move on a few
2:10:45more well about a month or so you know
2:10:49Baghdad that night get a get a hit
2:10:51coming in hey one of saddam's handlers
2:10:53we think is coming into town we think
2:10:56he's going to be at this house we think
2:10:58and then maybe we can find out where
2:10:59Saddam is and we had guys who were L
2:11:01Ando with you know other agencies down
2:11:03the street and I thought well they won't
2:11:04they'll want to be in on this so I'll go
2:11:05grab him bring him back um that was the
2:11:08next day never mind we roll up plan to
2:11:11do the hit and as we're rolling in I see
2:11:13some guy walking down the street I just
2:11:16noticed you know black coat whatever
2:11:17walking down the street and when another
2:11:18gate I thought okay I logged it in Gate
2:11:21color I don't know why went and hit the
2:11:23house really nothing there I'm like here
2:11:25we go again nothing nothing nothing we
2:11:27call it chasing Elvis right never
2:11:29catching
2:11:29Saddam then we started taking fire from
2:11:32like far away at the back side of the
2:11:34house and I thought why are they are
2:11:36they trying to draw Us in why would you
2:11:39know why would someone shoot at us with
2:11:41our armored vehicles from that far
2:11:43away so I said hey I sent a team down I
2:11:45said there was a guy went in the gate
2:11:47told him to call the gate it might have
2:11:48been Chris's team Chris was on that team
2:11:51I think poured down that street and I
2:11:54and I told the story before about they
2:11:56got in they went in they cleared the
2:11:58place and found him underneath the bed
2:11:59with a plastic AK almost killed him had
2:12:00they killed him we wouldn't know where
2:12:01Saddam was right but they didn't so we
2:12:04caught him but they he later I think
2:12:06somebody met him at the gate and te
2:12:07scared the [ __ ] out of him like they
2:12:09were trying to get in the gate and some
2:12:10guy opened the gate and he was standing
2:12:11right there and freaked him all out I
2:12:12took in and then everything else was the
2:12:13same after that but they pulled him back
2:12:16brought him to the Target like all right
2:12:17there mind let's roll on back I didn't
2:12:19even talk to that guy it was just
2:12:20uneventful but we brought him back for
2:12:22suspicious reasons cuz well he had the
2:12:25toy AK and he almost got smoked why
2:12:27would you have a toy AK and you know
2:12:29underneath a mattress in someone else's
2:12:31house took him back sent him to bad for
2:12:34the other guys to have have their way
2:12:36with him and I went to bed everybody I
2:12:37went to bed halfway through the day now
2:12:41you know hey hey hey we got a Saddam hit
2:12:45and I go yeah yeah when don't we have a
2:12:46Saddam hit I'm going to finish sleeping
2:12:48no no no it's a good one get up want to
2:12:50wake everybody up I go don't wake
2:12:51anybody up let me look at it first
2:12:53before you wake everybody up you know
2:12:55start looking at it planning it yeah
2:12:57he's pointing out this house in the crit
2:12:59this town the fish farm he's in a he's
2:13:01in a bunker and I'm
2:13:03like all right wake the team leaders up
2:13:05man maybe you know bring them in here
2:13:07woke them up everybody gets excited wake
2:13:09the teams up come up with a plan there's
2:13:11another troop you know up in to crit our
2:13:14area was Baghdad and South and flui all
2:13:16that they were to crit and up in that
2:13:18area so as we rolled in to link up with
2:13:20them and link up with the fourth ID they
2:13:23got to choose which Target they would
2:13:25hit cuz that was their area so they
2:13:27chose the fish farm the fish camp on the
2:13:29river I'm like okay we'll take the house
2:13:31in town because that's probably where
2:13:32he's at
2:13:33right roll in with a fourth ID they
2:13:36surround the town like it's a normal
2:13:38Patrol we roll in behind them the other
2:13:39guys are rolling in the fish farm we
2:13:42blow the door open in this house and I
2:13:43go in there's like I don't know five or
2:13:45six little babies laying on the right in
2:13:47front of the door on the ground and I'm
2:13:48like jumping over babies and none of
2:13:51them they're all still
2:13:52asleep and then there's this 90-year-old
2:13:54guy com stumbling out put him down on
2:13:56the ground and then my boss comes in oh
2:13:58what's going on I go watch your babies
2:13:59you know I'm starting moving babies out
2:14:00of the way and this guy comes I some old
2:14:04old old guy and one of the team members
2:14:06come back like fish in the freezer to
2:14:09the top and Saddam love fish and I was
2:14:12like oh oh so we started inter talking
2:14:16to this guy not interrogating talking to
2:14:18this guy and um finds out he cooks for
2:14:21Sadam he's his cook and he knows where
2:14:24he's at and he starts having a heart
2:14:25attack like they all do when you're
2:14:26going to roll them up right everyone has
2:14:28a heart attack or women start having
2:14:30babies like I don't care what you're
2:14:31doing you're still going with me right
2:14:33and I'm on the on the radio going Hey
2:14:34listen I'm going to do a follow on
2:14:35Mission I'm going to tape or tie this
2:14:37cook to the front of the Pander he's
2:14:39going to point it out and we're going to
2:14:40go and they're like return to base like
2:14:43listen you don't get it I'm going to put
2:14:45him up he's going to point we're going
2:14:46to drive there we're going to get tsami
2:14:47goes return to
2:14:50base I was so mad so mad I told the guys
2:14:54you know I probably cussed him hey he's
2:14:55blowing in this whole thing we're going
2:14:56to ruin it blah blah blah roll back to
2:14:59the Palace that we were in when we
2:15:00started found my boss and I started to
2:15:03chew his ass cuz I was so mad and he
2:15:04goes shut up and come
2:15:06here I followed him into this room and
2:15:09it was one of those things where I open
2:15:11the door and I looked to the left I'm
2:15:12like salt and pepper beard out to here
2:15:15with a leaf in it and just standing her
2:15:16handcuffed at a plastic table mic he
2:15:19shuts the door and I
2:15:20go holy
2:15:22[ __ ] that's him he goes yeah I go it
2:15:25looks like dirty Uncle Fester
2:15:27right he apparently spoke a little
2:15:30English and knew who Fester was or just
2:15:32didn't like me and spit on me he spit on
2:15:35Saddam spit on you
2:15:37yeah
2:15:39yeah what' you
2:15:41do I imagined myself knocking him out
2:15:45right but I looked at him I said it's
2:15:47okay okay you'll be dead
2:15:49soon and I just turned and walked
2:15:52out and my boss came out behind me and I
2:15:55go damn that was it I mean that's it
2:15:58that's literally it I had this whole
2:15:59plan move him fly him put him on a
2:16:01aircraft carrier you know so no one can
2:16:03can get him everything changed he went
2:16:06on buop stayed in the house in middle of
2:16:07biop with two tanks right outside of it
2:16:09you know and then went on trial but I
2:16:12remember driving back in the back of the
2:16:13vehicle everybody's asleep I got the S
2:16:15major with me and and he's talking to me
2:16:17he's just got a smile on his
2:16:19face pretty cool we caught him huh he
2:16:22goes
2:16:23no I no longer have a retention problem
2:16:26cuz he knew guys were happy they finally
2:16:28caught somebody and I'm like oh yeah and
2:16:30then you get home you go to bed and the
2:16:31next day someone's hey hey hey hey and
2:16:33you know it's not a Saddam hit but it's
2:16:35next and that's when it hits you and it
2:16:38doesn't matter does it we're all excited
2:16:41we caught Sadam hey we kill Bin Laden
2:16:44yay they were both removed from Power
2:16:47really not doing much by the time we got
2:16:48them all anyway so it's just next it
2:16:52just never ends it just keeps going
2:16:55you're like so excited Saddam Saddam if
2:16:56we ever caught him blah blah blah and
2:16:58you catch him you're like that's just
2:16:59another dude isn't it it's just another
2:17:01dude and this one's nasty and dirty and
2:17:03living in a hole you know living in a
2:17:05hole in the ground with a lot of money
2:17:08and a lot of
2:17:09cigars Invincible cigars I got a box of
2:17:13those at home they're probably dry
2:17:14rotted sitting
2:17:16out but that was an
2:17:19uneventful capture of a world leader
2:17:21that a world leader right
2:17:25but it's like here comes next you know
2:17:27it never ends and then you kind of
2:17:29realize this is
2:17:31Relentless you
2:17:33know when I was interviewing Chris Van
2:17:36an we took a
2:17:38break and
2:17:40uh I have one of the original decks of
2:17:43cards you know in that cabinet I think
2:17:45he saw it and he still
2:17:48smokes you know he's we're out back I'm
2:17:52gonna talk to him about that we're out
2:17:55back having a chat and
2:17:58um he had told me he goes you
2:18:01know we got damn near that entire deck
2:18:04of cards every night and uh he had
2:18:08said you know people ask how many how
2:18:13many guys we got you know during our
2:18:15time over there and and uh
2:18:18I think he thought I could relate to him
2:18:20but I can't and uh he just he's like I
2:18:23don't even I have no idea how many guys
2:18:27we killed over there I couldn't tell you
2:18:30and uh that's a lot of work
2:18:34man I can remember you know then they
2:18:36had The Blacklist you got the deck of
2:18:38cards and then you had the black list
2:18:40that nobody knew about you know and I
2:18:41remember chasing one on BL 54 Blacklist
2:18:44number
2:18:4554 chasing him chasing him chasing him
2:18:48always got away always got away trying
2:18:50to find him how to find where he goes
2:18:51when he goes away finally devised an
2:18:54idea um he liked to frequent the ladies
2:18:58houses you know the red light district
2:19:00type thing in Baghdad even though they
2:19:02don't believe in that kind of thing and
2:19:05so guy slipped up and put a tracker on
2:19:06his
2:19:07car and then forgot about it every day a
2:19:11helicopter pop up at the airport and see
2:19:14what was going on and go back down no no
2:19:17signal another Squadron comes in we pack
2:19:19up we do the hand over all our stuff's
2:19:21in isus and we're ready to go home and
2:19:22all our guns are packed away helicopter
2:19:25does this big hey Beacon just popped out
2:19:29in the middle of the
2:19:31desert a squadron starts firing up and I
2:19:35go no no no sir everybody unpacked the
2:19:39boxes for going after this [ __ ] right
2:19:41chased him for a long time I wasn't
2:19:43going to hand it off on the night of
2:19:45everybody's like yeah yeah yeah they
2:19:46pack up we load our vehicles we drive
2:19:48out of
2:19:49town which was the first time I felt
2:19:52good in Iraq we drove out of town we
2:19:55started hitting the desert there's
2:19:56nothing we stopped to take a break
2:19:58before rolled into the compound um and
2:20:00and hit it got out of the vehicle
2:20:02stretched my legs and it was fresh air
2:20:03and it was desert and it was beautiful
2:20:06it's not a light and sight and I
2:20:08thought this place could be all right
2:20:10without the people right it could be all
2:20:11right without the people in it or at
2:20:13least the the jerks in
2:20:15it and I felt good you you know I feel
2:20:17like we're on our way home I'm going to
2:20:19do this last
2:20:20hit and oh God don't let that be a bad
2:20:23decision you know so we rolled in like
2:20:26let's roll in hot like you mean it and
2:20:28we rolled in there was like eight nine
2:20:30dudes lined up we rolled them up captur
2:20:33them all not a shot fired eight or nine
2:20:35in a row and I had a picture of who it
2:20:38was and I acted like I knew what I was
2:20:40doing I'd go to the first guy obviously
2:20:43wasn't him second
2:20:45guy I don't know man I don't really know
2:20:47right third guy I'm like getting closer
2:20:50I'm like oh you know Kam you know Kami
2:20:53Sirhan huh he like no no and I showed
2:20:55him the picture yes he just no no but he
2:20:58didn't point to anybody I go to the next
2:21:00guy no not him I go to the next
2:21:02guy oh oh yeah it's Kami H Kami sir hone
2:21:07he's like his head dropped and went got
2:21:09you he started to lean forward and
2:21:12headbutt me and try to not don't jump on
2:21:14me his hands were cuffed I leaned back
2:21:16real quick and just gave him a quick
2:21:18kick and he went flying across the floor
2:21:20and I go that's the man you know there
2:21:23bels we took back but that was the one
2:21:24we finally caught him on the last day
2:21:27our rotation went back packed our stuff
2:21:29back up and flew home the next day with
2:21:30a smile on my face and we finally
2:21:32finished that one a little bit of
2:21:37closure let's say a quick
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2:25:34way love you all let's get back to the
2:25:36show thank
2:25:41you all right Tom we're back from the
2:25:44break we're getting towards the end of
2:25:46your your career here you're in a
2:25:48leadership role and you stood up a new
2:25:53Squadron D Squadron yeah that was
2:25:57interesting um prior to that I moved
2:26:01from Troop Sant to combat support
2:26:05Squadron SAR major so I had that for a
2:26:07bit you know combat what combat support
2:26:10okay combat support Squadron so it's the
2:26:12Squadron full of everybody that support
2:26:14for the um squadrons AC support guys the
2:26:18combat support guys so we have other
2:26:20support guys that do other things the
2:26:21combat support guys go to combat so I
2:26:24was in charge of that element um couple
2:26:27years and that's when I started going
2:26:28back and forth Iraq as the CSM you know
2:26:31letting our unit CSM get a break and
2:26:33just rotating back and forth um sitting
2:26:36in the chair for him at times and you
2:26:39know months at a time and then going
2:26:40back but so that was my time in Combat
2:26:43Sports Squad you know taking care of
2:26:44those cats who do their own thing that
2:26:46was easy and then they stood up
2:26:48everybody started doing a fourth of
2:26:49everything they supposed to give you
2:26:51quote unquote more time off more time at
2:26:54home which turned into more time to do
2:26:56more things around the world right so
2:26:58they're all complaining about it now no
2:27:00it didn't give us any more
2:27:02time so they did the Run who they going
2:27:04to pick and they grabbed me like hey we
2:27:06want you to stand up the new
2:27:08Squadron all right I didn't really want
2:27:10to right I didn't really want to stand
2:27:12up a new Squadron right I wanted to stay
2:27:14in my Squadron forever you know you feel
2:27:16comfortable there and just move up like
2:27:19now we're going to start a new Squadron
2:27:20and uh you don't have an office you're
2:27:23all your men are in the other squadrons
2:27:24and you have any
2:27:25equipment so they converted the old
2:27:27photo lab in the basement of our
2:27:30building and converted it to my office
2:27:33you know and I had the commander who
2:27:35they were still picking at the
2:27:37time it actually started out as
2:27:40a John Brennan who's one of the senior
2:27:44leaders now in SF and then it rotated to
2:27:46John
2:27:47brag thank good the first names were the
2:27:49same and John bragas who's now in charge
2:27:53um Special
2:27:55Operations and so it rotated from one
2:27:57who had to go to school who started to
2:27:59another one and it was we're down in the
2:28:00photo lab we finally found an opar major
2:28:02was kind of a guy that people like I
2:28:04don't know if I want to work with that
2:28:04guy I'll work with that guy you know
2:28:06he's very detailed so we brought him
2:28:07down as opar major so now we got a group
2:28:10of three we're sitting there what do we
2:28:12need to order well we got to order
2:28:13everything everybody else has I guess so
2:28:16let's give it a snipers find out what
2:28:17they want get with the cters find out
2:28:18what they want get with the the drivers
2:28:20the the aircraft team the climbing team
2:28:23what equipment do we need to
2:28:25buy I don't know right where do you get
2:28:28all this information um they purchased
2:28:30that stuff over years and years and
2:28:32years so I'm not in contact with any of
2:28:34my troops they're in their different
2:28:36squadrons you know they started building
2:28:38up a fourth troop in each Squadron over
2:28:40time by taking people around and then I
2:28:43was in charge of those fourth troops
2:28:44which would eventually become D Squadron
2:28:47and so I'm out trying to design our new
2:28:50Wing cuz they're rebuilding they were
2:28:51redoing the unit anyway and the first
2:28:54Wing was going to go to C Squad and then
2:28:56whatever b b and then and then D would
2:28:58get the last I'm like so I have to be in
2:29:00this photo lab for like six years man or
2:29:03something you know not attached to
2:29:04anybody nowhere to park equipment and
2:29:06they ended up giving the first Bay to D
2:29:08Squadron which was good but I was
2:29:10already gone and it was one of those
2:29:13design the bay how do we do the bay and
2:29:15make it new make it a new super Bay make
2:29:17it wi put an elevator in it who who
2:29:18didn't who thought of of an elevator
2:29:20finally right to carry all the heavy
2:29:21[ __ ] up instead of cranking it up with a
2:29:23rope and a wiench so put a huge elevator
2:29:25in there made the upstairs better for
2:29:27training you know and storage and it was
2:29:29you know team rooms were a little bit
2:29:30better and then all the other squadrons
2:29:32took shaped like
2:29:33that and we went out and trained and
2:29:35prepped and getting ready to go to war
2:29:37and everything and getting everybody
2:29:38trained up and I was over in Iraq um
2:29:42doing another icsm gig and the doc had
2:29:45called down to to the Troops down in
2:29:47Baghdad said you guys didn't fill out
2:29:49this medical paperwork y y y you need to
2:29:52fill out the medical paperwork now so
2:29:54what do they do they call me hey the doc
2:29:56from the unit keeps calling us and
2:29:57they're bitching about medical paperwork
2:29:58and blah blah we don't have time for
2:30:00that so what do I do like fair but
2:30:02[ __ ] way I pick up the phone and call
2:30:04the doc hey Doc don't call these dudes
2:30:06anymore you want something call me
2:30:08they're not going to do paperwork for
2:30:09you it's not crucial don't worry about
2:30:11it quit bothering them right they didn't
2:30:13like that didn't like that at
2:30:15all
2:30:16he quit bothering so maybe a month
2:30:20later I get
2:30:22a no I was actually back home I actually
2:30:25was back home they called me to the med
2:30:29shed and said hey uh your cholesterol
2:30:33was zero in January this is like March
2:30:35or April now you did a kind of a
2:30:37physical probably my over 50 physical or
2:30:39something I don't know what it was but
2:30:41your cholesterol is zero and I was like
2:30:43oh is that good right low right it's
2:30:44real low like no it's it's not good um
2:30:47it's in indicative the doctor said it's
2:30:49indicative of steroid
2:30:50use I go is it
2:30:53now zero sounds like a pretty even
2:30:56number you know so I go and talk to the
2:30:58docs and the docs like well I don't
2:31:00there's no testosterone I mean your
2:31:01testosterone is low this and that have
2:31:03you bought any no have I done it before
2:31:05sure have I done it lately
2:31:07no what what have you taken so I start
2:31:09well I bought this on the internet I
2:31:11bought this on the internet you know cuz
2:31:12I'm working out I had like 10 surgeries
2:31:15I want to go back I want to be healthy
2:31:16I'm trying to get fit again bought it on
2:31:19the
2:31:19internet probably had nothing to do with
2:31:21it anyway but they grabbed that and ran
2:31:24with
2:31:25it and I got a call from brag one night
2:31:28saying hey I need to come over to your
2:31:30house I go what for you've never been
2:31:35here so I just need to come over and I
2:31:37go oh well look man if you're just going
2:31:39to come over and relieve me don't bother
2:31:41just say it don't put yourself through
2:31:42the embarrassing part of coming over and
2:31:44have to look me in the face no biggie I
2:31:46get it whatever I didn't care and I was
2:31:48done anyway right did I like it no but I
2:31:51was done anyway so it was one of those
2:31:53whatever you know I've been here way too
2:31:54long and
2:31:57uh so he ended up coming over and I
2:31:59remember he's like no no I'm coming over
2:32:01and I looked at my wife who you know ex
2:32:03now obviously go I need a Xanax she goes
2:32:07what I need one of your Xanaxes man or
2:32:09something because I think he's coming
2:32:11over here to let me go you she go what
2:32:13four and I go I think this medical [ __ ]
2:32:15you know cuz I talked to the doc he's
2:32:17like well you took something and maybe
2:32:20that did it right I'm like I don't I
2:32:21don't know whatever if I'm wrong I'm
2:32:23wrong and you know I guess I'll go so he
2:32:25relieved me that night and then our SAR
2:32:29major of the unit came back from a trip
2:32:31and he found out about he's
2:32:33like you got fired by an officer and I
2:32:37go yeah kind of he goes that's not cool
2:32:40what happened I told him whole story and
2:32:41he went and started researching comeing
2:32:43to find out it was lab
2:32:45eror lab error serious lab
2:32:48error the rumors were flying I mean I
2:32:51heard all kinds of rumors I was already
2:32:53relieved I didn't lose rank I didn't
2:32:55lose
2:32:56anything they said well hey all right
2:32:59where do you want to go now then sorry
2:33:00but we can't hire you back embarrassment
2:33:02the command I'm like what it's
2:33:05embarrassing as what happened to me you
2:33:06know so I ended up taking another job
2:33:10that put me right in Iraq again working
2:33:12with smaller groups
2:33:14um and when I was over I got a call from
2:33:17the medic a doc who had just recently G
2:33:19me an MRI and he's like hey man your
2:33:21right shoulder is not even attached
2:33:22anymore really so don't pick up a Ruck
2:33:25don't try to pick up a weapon anymore
2:33:26come back you need surgery
2:33:28immediately I'd just been there like a
2:33:30month and a half and I and rolling up
2:33:32this new program so I went to the
2:33:34commander who called me in for a
2:33:36briefing after I'd been out in the field
2:33:38for like a week working with um some
2:33:41locals calls me back in to give a brief
2:33:43to a general you know just come on out
2:33:45come on out out all right so I come
2:33:48flying back into the bad from where I
2:33:50was wanted the brief at a certain time I
2:33:53changed clothes I'm not dirty I got
2:33:54Scruff man this is taken me now 10 years
2:33:57okay so I got Scruff barely on my
2:34:00face I go walking in I give the briefing
2:34:02to the general you know about who's
2:34:04working for us and what they're doing
2:34:05and it's going well blah blah all thanks
2:34:07and he leaves and that commander looks
2:34:09at me he's like why don't you
2:34:12shave I go are we there now are we there
2:34:16now the operator Beard's gone and you
2:34:17need to worry about my stubble when I
2:34:19just came out of the field to brief
2:34:20somebody on what I'm doing I said by the
2:34:22way I got to go home my shoulder's
2:34:24falling off and I got to get a SE back
2:34:26on so I'm heading out I turn around got
2:34:29on the next flight and flew home and I
2:34:30had
2:34:33surgery you know and then that
2:34:37that that lab a
2:34:41thing was one of those uh you know well
2:34:43that ended that job right mhm so I was I
2:34:46was in a sling for a long long
2:34:49time and they said what else what else
2:34:51can we put you in I'll just take CDD
2:34:52I'll be sir major CDD right the combat
2:34:55development directorate you know so all
2:34:57the guys that develop all the [ __ ] and
2:34:59talk to the docs and and you know smart
2:35:01100 pound head scientist and and invent
2:35:03stuff go I'll be down there I'll go down
2:35:05there and be the St major well we can't
2:35:07really put you back in a leadership
2:35:09position because we took you of one so
2:35:11that was my last two years that uh
2:35:13General pyic wanted to reconnect with F
2:35:17so that's I I I said you know what I'll
2:35:19go do that that was my best two years I
2:35:23forgot what it was like to be on a team
2:35:25with people that worked together
2:35:28friendly um not that we weren't friends
2:35:31at work you know but it was so
2:35:33competitive it was so individually
2:35:35competitive like you got to get one up
2:35:36got to get one up there's kids always
2:35:38chasing your heels I mean that's
2:35:39everywhere but the competitiveness at
2:35:41that place is ridiculous it's just
2:35:44ridiculous and
2:35:46when I got to that team over there the
2:35:49training team and for two years of CQB
2:35:51and shooting and teaching these these
2:35:53new Green Berets and and working with
2:35:55the guys I was working with I really had
2:35:57to thank them for bringing me back to
2:35:59that team feeling of togetherness and
2:36:00not you trying to take my job you trying
2:36:02to make me you know you're trying to be
2:36:04better and make me look bad it was
2:36:06refreshing two years
2:36:10um they helped me get over that you know
2:36:13what I admin betrayal is what I kind of
2:36:15call it which is one of the highest
2:36:16reasons you know people one of the
2:36:18highest reasons that people take their
2:36:19lives is admin
2:36:20betrayal it's just when you work so hard
2:36:22for somebody and then they throw you you
2:36:24know away or side because you they no
2:36:26longer need you but it was one of those
2:36:28things
2:36:29that I was open about I was honest about
2:36:32I bought some off the internet you know
2:36:34and they're like well that people take
2:36:35that when you're coming off steroids and
2:36:36I go it was a anti-estrogen I was trying
2:36:39to get you know I'm I'm making this [ __ ]
2:36:41up as I'm trying to heal like well we
2:36:43know you're trying to get better and
2:36:44understand it and everything and then
2:36:45end up being labir
2:36:49anyway and they wouldn't take it back
2:36:51that was a hurtful thing I mean I get it
2:36:53I don't get it but um and I kind of get
2:36:56it you know coming from an organization
2:36:58like that you can't embarrass those
2:37:00higher than you I guess and if they
2:37:02won't take a hit you know and keep going
2:37:04then why Try
2:37:06So that led me into those two years of
2:37:09of of a little bit of healing or it
2:37:11would been a lot worse when I
2:37:13left and then that just that kind of
2:37:16sank me the way it all happened you know
2:37:18spend two years building that Squadron
2:37:20up and getting ready to deploy to War
2:37:22and the day they let me go was a day
2:37:24they were heading off to do their last
2:37:25training event before they deployed oh
2:37:27man and in the bay I had to go tell them
2:37:30in the bay as they were loading up that
2:37:31um I've been relieved and they work out
2:37:35who the new SAR major is and you know in
2:37:37the current time it'll be this you guys
2:37:40have a good time and a good trip and
2:37:41take care of yourselves you know they're
2:37:43like what the [ __ ] you know I don't know
2:37:45I see you turn and left and uh went
2:37:48through that whole process of Iraq
2:37:51surgery and then last two years of range
2:37:5337 which
2:37:55uh yeah takes me to the end of that 25
2:38:00years you spent two years building that
2:38:02Squadron huh yeah what kind of culture
2:38:05did you want it to be you had mentioned
2:38:08early on in the interview that each
2:38:11Squadron has a culture SL personality of
2:38:15its own I like the blend I like the
2:38:19chill but I like the the goget it
2:38:21attitude but not either or all the time
2:38:24because either or of anything is too
2:38:25much all the time no matter what it is I
2:38:28liked it there were two calmer squadrons
2:38:30and then one really aggressive you know
2:38:33Squadron so I let them work out the SOP
2:38:35days like what are our Sops going to be
2:38:38for this
2:38:38Squadron and back and forth back and
2:38:41forth as I'm sitting up front I'm like
2:38:44y'all figure it out I'll be in my office
2:38:45man I can't see her all day you know so
2:38:47they shook it out figured it out and in
2:38:50hearing now they're doing pretty amazing
2:38:52things I mean I don't take credit for
2:38:54that but the culture the way they've
2:38:56integrated back into and they're kicking
2:38:57ass just like the other squadrons is
2:38:59pretty I'm pretty happy about that you
2:39:00know um being a plank holder whether
2:39:03they've ripped my name down or left it
2:39:04up I don't know I don't really
2:39:06care but you know I cared then I really
2:39:10cared
2:39:12then and that led into a whole
2:39:14retirement fiasco for me you
2:39:17know I turned into hating everybody not
2:39:19trusting anybody um not doing a
2:39:22retirement ceremony like I'm not down no
2:39:25no I'll just leave I don't care you know
2:39:29and one of the officers uh Chris Don CD
2:39:32who was the last American standing in
2:39:34Afghanistan when they boarded the
2:39:36planes he's like Tom man come back to se
2:39:39squ he was SE Squad Commander at the
2:39:40time come back to your old SE Squad man
2:39:42we'll throw you one up and upstairs
2:39:43we'll throw your retirement party I'm
2:39:44like nah I don't want it cuz you got to
2:39:48man come on so I I
2:39:50relented decided to do it it was on a
2:39:53day they were doing a golf
2:39:55tournament somewhere so waiting on the
2:39:57star major to show up come time to start
2:40:00I come walking in he comes walking in
2:40:01his golf equipment I already walked into
2:40:03the room and looked around normally you
2:40:05get a Legion of Merit you know you get
2:40:07all these Awards and [ __ ] when you leave
2:40:08and then thanks plaque I went and looked
2:40:11at the table no Legion of Merit no other
2:40:13award just the sixth Award of one of
2:40:17mine ribbons that you read that mean
2:40:19nothing I looked over for unit colors
2:40:21there were no unit colors there they
2:40:23give them to people that are there for
2:40:24two years in good standing I've been
2:40:25there 20 years and they reflected on the
2:40:28last two years of of my time there that
2:40:31they thought was
2:40:32wrong even though it wasn't wrong right
2:40:36it was it was proven to be wrong the
2:40:38whole
2:40:39time and I was I was Furious so I walked
2:40:42back out in the parking lot I'm like I'm
2:40:43not even going I'm not going to go you
2:40:45know it's go there's people showing up
2:40:47and I saw the Ser major walking in go
2:40:49hey yeah I got to talk to you for a
2:40:50second yeah yeah what's up I go why is
2:40:53there no Legion of Merit and why was
2:40:55everything else
2:40:56downgraded I don't know what to tell you
2:40:58Tom I go what do you mean you don't know
2:40:59what to tell me go sounds about like you
2:41:01you don't want to tell me you just don't
2:41:03know what to tell people do you he's
2:41:04like well what do you think I'm going to
2:41:06go to bat for you to get these from the
2:41:08general I go yeah I expect you to go to
2:41:11bat for me like I've been to bat for you
2:41:13you know since Somalia
2:41:16he's like yeah just wouldn't do it and
2:41:18I'm like but what did I do to not get
2:41:21that you know what I mean and so that
2:41:23whole retirement ceremony was just
2:41:25sickening to my stomach as I stood up
2:41:27there you know and my son pins on some
2:41:29shitty ribbon and that I've got five of
2:41:32already you know and and handed me some
2:41:35crap and I couldn't wait to get out of
2:41:37there and when I did my my wife had set
2:41:40up a surprise limo ride out to Southern
2:41:42Pines and have a dinner with all my
2:41:44close friends and halfway out at limo
2:41:46driver pull over said pull over man I
2:41:49got out and just start throwing up
2:41:51everybody's laughing are you drunk
2:41:52already I got had a
2:41:54drop I just sick to my stomach just just
2:41:57sickened that had gotten kicked out like
2:42:00that and I couldn't tell you why and uh
2:42:05ruin that ruin that retirement ceremony
2:42:08and then down the road years later and
2:42:09find out many people had that happened
2:42:11to him many people had it just a bad
2:42:14experience is leaving and I'm like I
2:42:16didn't know that like I didn't even know
2:42:17about you and why you left I'm like oh
2:42:19thank goodness cuz I heard all kinds of
2:42:20rumors and stories that none of were
2:42:22true you know people just making stuff
2:42:23up cuz I had no idea what had happened
2:42:26to me I didn't lose rank I didn't lose
2:42:27money I didn't lose anything you know I
2:42:29didn't lose the command sergeant major
2:42:31put down to SAR major I kept the command
2:42:33SAR major they couldn't do anything
2:42:34because they didn't do anything but
2:42:37everybody wondered why I wasn't in that
2:42:38Squadron anymore and why I didn't deploy
2:42:41like go ask somebody who knows man CU I
2:42:43don't you know was one of those
2:42:46that probably hit me hard you know and
2:42:48then that's when it was
2:42:51uh I think seven days later I was flying
2:42:55to
2:42:56Jordan because they didn't have a plan I
2:42:58didn't know what to do and somebody said
2:42:59hey I'm running ranges at codic man come
2:43:02on like what's it pay you know oh he
2:43:05told me the mount I went hell yeah
2:43:07packed up and flew to on Jordan spent a
2:43:10year and a half
2:43:11there which you know ended my third
2:43:13marriage because here I go again you
2:43:16know I thought money would make it
2:43:17better but I was trying to feel that
2:43:18void trying to keep going yeah you know
2:43:22guys like to stay in The Fray as long as
2:43:23I can and I was trying to but I was
2:43:26tanking so fast that retirement the way
2:43:28I felt the last two years
2:43:30and and how it all ended up was uh
2:43:34sickening to me you know for a place I
2:43:36love so much and for people Giants that
2:43:38I respected so
2:43:43much I'm sorry that happened to you man
2:43:46yeah me I appreciate that me too it
2:43:48happens more frequently than you think
2:43:51it doesn't surprise me and I said
2:43:53nothing could ends well or it never end
2:43:55right so you got to make it bad first
2:43:59yeah well Tom it's been a long day we
2:44:04you say we pick up tomorrow let's do it
2:44:06yeah get into civilian and transition
2:44:09and the other side of this whole thing
2:44:12yeah the better side all right take
2:44:15next on the Shawn Ryan Show what do you
2:44:19guys do like what what's your mission
2:44:21set and he said to to free the
2:44:25oppressed he's like yeah we build
2:44:27Nations we go in and we help the
2:44:29oppressed we free them that's our job
2:44:32and I said nobody's ever put it that way
2:44:34to me you always hear fight for freedom
2:44:37but no no one had ever put it that way
2:44:39were the humanitarians going in trying
2:44:41to stop the bad guys to build the new so
2:44:44that the good guys in that Community can
2:44:47Thrive what point in time did you hit
2:44:49your lowest
2:44:51point my wedding
2:44:54[Music]
2:45:03night hey everybody I'm Shawn Ryan click
2:45:06here to subscribe to the Sha Ryan Show
2:45:08YouTube channel for the hottest and most
2:45:10compelling interviews that you will not
2:45:12see anywhere else I've also made a
2:45:15playlist of all the previous SRS
2:45:18episodes so they're easy to find you can
2:45:20find that right
2:45:23here

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