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TOM HOLLAND: How Tom Overcame Social Anxiety- The Mindset That Changed Everything! — Transcript

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0:00I just felt like I was so addicted to
0:02this kind of false version of my life
0:03that it was just taking over. And the
0:05thing that really upset me is the press
0:07ran with that. They were saying, "Oh,
0:09look, he's not the perfect
0:10happy-go-lucky kid you think he is. He's
0:12having a nervous breakdown in New York."
0:13If I was having a mental breakdown,
0:15that's not for you to report on. They
0:17took the story in the wrong direction,
0:19and they kind of painted people looking
0:21for help in the wrong light.
0:23author and host
0:24The number one health and wellness
0:26podcast
0:27On Purpose with Jay Shetty
0:30A lot of studies show that how we were
0:32loved or unloved between the ages of
0:35zero to five impact the next 15, 25, 50
0:40years of our life Wow.
0:42and how we give love to ourselves and
0:44how we give love to others.
0:45And so, I was thinking, do you have a
0:47core memory or an experience with your
0:49family from childhood that kind of
0:52embodies the feeling you have about them
0:54now or that keeps you tied close to
0:56them? I'd say sort of more than a memory
0:59is just a feeling that we I could say
1:01all of my brothers and I had was that
1:04because our dad's a comedian
1:06his job
1:08only ever existed once we had gone to
1:10bed. And our mom worked from home, she
1:12was a photographer. So, to us as kids,
1:15our parents didn't really work. They
1:17just were always home. So, we had this
1:19amazing foundation where
1:21no matter any time of the day, either
1:23mom or dad would be at the house, and we
1:25felt so kind of solid as a family, which
1:28is why like I kind of have this dream of
1:30one day having kids and putting my work
1:32to bed and just kind of being there as a
1:34dad, cuz I really admire how my dad was
1:37round, you know, being a comedian is a
1:39very, very volatile job. The The highs
1:43and lows are so extreme, and as kids, we
1:45never saw that. The only version of my
1:47dad I ever saw was the happy dad, let's
1:49go to the park. We used to play this
1:51game called golf goals, where we would
1:53go down to the park, there's like this
1:54big blue metal goal, and we would just
1:57fire golf balls into that goal every
2:00day, and he would give us 10p every time
2:02a ball went in the goal, and that was
2:04kind of the foundation of our golf and
2:06and all that sort of stuff. So, for me,
2:08broader than a core memory was the idea
2:11of always feeling connected and safe
2:14within my family unit, and I think a
2:15large portion of that is that my mom and
2:18dad have always been such a solid team,
2:21and they've always been there for us.
2:23Yeah, wow. Have they, as you've grown
2:25older, have they kind of opened up about
2:27some of the challenges that they were
2:29going through that they obviously didn't
2:30show you and your family when you were
2:32kids? Because I can imagine we always
2:34talk about this, right? Like being a
2:35comedian's extremely difficult because
2:37you're making everyone else laugh. At
2:39the same time, it's it's a career path
2:41that, like you said, is completely
2:43volatile. Sure.
2:44Have Have they opened up as time's gone
2:45on, and how is that felt when you've
2:47gone from like seeing your parents
2:48always being happy to being like, "Oh,
2:49wait, there was all this other stuff
2:50going on."? Absolutely, they have. And
2:52And it's not even sometimes things that
2:54they've told us. It's just things that
2:55we've grown up to recognize. As a young
2:58kid, you know, you're not looking to
2:59How's my mom feeling? How's my dad
3:01feeling? And now, as an as an older
3:02person, you know, those are things I
3:04care about. I want to call my mom cuz I
3:06know it will brighten her day. So,
3:08that's all part of growing up, I guess.
3:11So, seeing
3:13the way in which my dad's job affects
3:15him or my dad's job affects my mom is
3:18something we've all
3:19sort of come to terms with, and he's
3:21amazing at it. I mean, to be honest, I
3:23say affect, it doesn't really affect
3:24anyone. He's so good at handling it. Um
3:27which is a lot of why I feel like I am
3:29the way I am. For example, The Crowded
3:31Room's come out, the critics absolutely
3:33hated it. They thought it was the worst
3:34thing they've ever seen, and it doesn't
3:35really upset me. And I think a large
3:38part of my feeling towards that has come
3:41from my dad being able to do a gig, the
3:43gig not going well, him brushing it off
3:45his shoulder, and just right onto the
3:47next one. Yeah, well, and and first of
3:49all, I want to point out as as So, I've
3:50been watching The Crowded Room, right?
3:52And me and my wife have been watching it
3:54together and we are actually really
3:55enjoying it.
3:56And so like we're actually loving it
3:58because I love a show that has mystery
4:00that's trying to like get me to figure
4:02it out and get me to think about it. I'm
4:04kind of confused and I love stuff like
4:06that. Like I'm a massive
4:07Christopher Nolan fan. So, all my
4:09favorite movies are Nolan movies and the
4:11reason why I love them is cuz I've no
4:12idea what's going on. And that's what
4:15And you got to figure it out and I love
4:16puzzles and I love escape rooms and I
4:17love anything that Yeah, I love anything
4:20that's got me thinking what is going on
4:22here and why can't I figure it out.
4:23Mate, do you know what you should watch?
4:25I I admittedly watch it to go to sleep
4:27if I'm ever feeling stressed or like
4:29overstimulated,
4:30I watch this guy called Chris Ramsay.
4:32He's like a YouTube guy. He's a
4:34magician, but I just watch him solve
4:37puzzles. He like buys these Japanese
4:40like handcrafted
4:42puzzle boxes and he just solves them and
4:45I've started buying them and they come
4:48to the house and you sit down for
4:504 hours, put it down, pick it up, and
4:51try and solve this puzzle and it's
4:54amazing. Are you any good at them? No,
4:55I'm terrible at them. I'm absolutely
4:57terrible. I've had an unsolved Rubik's
4:59Cube since I was like 11. But I am But
5:01yeah, so I watch these videos cuz
5:03there's just something about like the
5:05sound of the wood. I'm a carpenter, so I
5:07love like craftsmanship and that sort of
5:10stuff. So, I love the way that these
5:11pieces are put together. So, watching
5:13him solve the puzzles, I find so
5:15relaxing.
5:16Yeah, I think for so many of us, you
5:17know, getting bad
5:20reviews, perceptions,
5:23people talking about us, whatever that
5:25may be, whatever scale we live at, can
5:27actually affect us. And you saying that
5:29actually seeing your dad
5:30letting him seeing him shrug it off and
5:32seeing him move on actually really
5:33helped him. Do you think that you've
5:35been able to
5:36create a bit more of a skill around that
5:38now or is it something that happens
5:40naturally for you because I'm guessing
5:41that there's a lot of people who are
5:42listening and watching going, "Tom,
5:44that's pretty amazing that you you do
5:45that at your scale and your level, but
5:48you know, I'm still affected by that or
5:50I really struggle when my mate says
5:51something. Like I don't The number one
5:53thing I hear is like most people don't
5:55chase their dreams because they're
5:56scared of what their mates will say, let
5:58alone what the world will say.
6:00Yeah, like I had this late I was I was
6:02flying back last night as I was telling
6:03you. So I was on a plane from DC to
6:04London last night and the air hostess,
6:08she was wonderful, her name was Janette.
6:09She said to me, she was like, "Jay, I
6:11really want to start a YouTube channel,
6:12but you know, you just got to block out
6:13what your friends are going to say,
6:14right?" was just worried about it. So
6:16that it's a very real thing. So I guess
6:18have you kind of figured out a little
6:19formula for it or is it just natural
6:21because you saw your dad and it's become
6:23easier that way? I think it's a little
6:25bit of both, really. You know, I think
6:27it's something you definitely get better
6:29at. I'm really lucky that I have an
6:31incredibly strong group of friends. Like
6:34one of my best mates just called me up
6:35earlier to say he'd seen the fifth
6:37episode and he's like, "I know what
6:39happens in the show and I'm still loving
6:41it. The people I'm watching it with have
6:42no idea what's going on, but they can't
6:44wait for the next one." Yeah. So, you
6:46know, I really, really hold high the
6:49opinions of people that I really care
6:51about. I'm also really lucky to have an
6:53amazing group of fans who are so
6:55supportive. They are die-hard. They are
6:57there day one.
6:59And that makes me feel really good. But
7:00I I do think a lot of my lessons in life
7:02have come from my dad and the ways that
7:05he can deal with things, things that he
7:07hasn't done very well in the past that
7:08he's passed on to me.
7:10And
7:12I sort of
7:13I live by this really I don't actually
7:15know if Christian Bale did say this, but
7:17apparently
7:18I love Christian Bale. I love Christian
7:20Bale. We'll say he said it. Yeah. We'll
7:21say We'll say he said it. Yeah. But I
7:23think
7:24the quote is, "If you have a problem
7:26with me, text me and if you don't have
7:28my number, you don't know me well enough
7:29to have a problem with me." That's so
7:31good.
7:32And I think that that is such a great
7:33piece of advice because as a celebrity,
7:35you live on this stage. You live out
7:38there. You kind of give out a version of
7:40of that you want people to see Mhm. and
7:43that can be the version of yourself that
7:45they can have a problem with or they can
7:47love. And there is a you know, I feel
7:49like I'm quite authentic in my
7:51public persona, but I just try to really
7:54care about what my family thinks, what
7:56my friends think,
7:58what the people in my local community
8:00think. I live in Kingston, I know
8:01everyone that lives there. I can't walk
8:035 ft without bumping into one of my
8:04mom's friends. So yeah, so it's
8:06something I've been working on.
8:09I try my best to not let that stuff
8:10affect me. It does.
8:11Yeah, of course. I'm not cold-hearted or
8:13anything like that. It does affect me,
8:15but I just try to to move on and focus
8:17on the positives.
8:18Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. What what
8:20was uh Did you ever see your dad deal
8:21with everything and you thought, "Wow,
8:23that was incredible." Like was there
8:24anything specific that you remember that
8:25like seeing him like tackle something
8:27and you thought, "Wow, that really
8:30impressed me." Even if it was something
8:31really small in hindsight? I think the
8:33thing I admire most about my dad is his
8:36resilience. You know, he's someone who
8:39has had an incredibly successful career
8:41in his earlier life and then later in
8:43life his career sort of plateaued and he
8:45struggled. And he's never stopped. He's
8:48never given up. He's still gigging to
8:50this day. He's still writing books. He
8:52has a patron. He has a podcast. He's
8:54constantly grafting to get to where he
8:56wants to be.
8:58And I think being a young kid and seeing
9:00your dad continually working as hard as
9:03he can to kind of put his best foot
9:05forward for me has been a huge drive for
9:07my work ethic. I'll give it 100% or I'll
9:10give it nothing. And I think a lot of
9:12that has come from my dad and seeing him
9:14deal with that. The funny thing about my
9:15dad is you talk about doing a bad gig, I
9:17must have seen him 20 times, I've never
9:19seen him do a bad gig. He always seems
9:21to absolutely rip it. Um but maybe
9:24that's just cuz we're in the audience.
9:26But he um but no, I I I owe a lot to my
9:28dad and a lot of the teachings are
9:30things he's told me and things I've just
9:31witnessed him do.
9:32Yeah. And was there ever a piece of
9:33feedback or a rumor or something you saw
9:35that did affect you where you actually
9:38thought well or at least made you stop
9:40and go God I'm trying to see the
9:41positives but this one's tough like like
9:43this actually
9:46made me have to pause and figure it out.
9:49Something that did really upset me
9:51I was in New York. I was shooting the
9:53crowning crowded room
9:55and I was having a really hard time with
9:57the job just because of how taxing it
9:59was the emotional capacity that I was
10:01having to get to every day
10:03and
10:05I decided to delete my Instagram because
10:07I just felt like I was so addicted to
10:09this kind of false version of my life
10:11that it was just taking over. I would be
10:13on set working. I'd come and sit in my
10:15chair and just scroll scroll scroll
10:16scroll scroll and it was
10:18it was becoming
10:20a problem. I was just obsessed with it
10:21and I was obsessed to find out what
10:23people were saying and how people what
10:25they thought about me.
10:26So I decided to
10:28make an announcement which unfortunately
10:30we have to do and say that I'm taking a
10:32break from social media and I and I
10:33tried to position myself and say like
10:36I'm taking a break from social media
10:37because I feel like my mental health
10:39will benefit from it. And the thing that
10:41really upset me is the press ran with
10:43that and they tried to make out that I
10:46was having this mental breakdown and
10:48what upset me was
10:50if I was having a mental breakdown
10:52that's not for you to report on. They
10:54they they took the story in the wrong
10:55direction and they try they painted
10:57again this negative light on mental
10:59health rather than saying
11:02oh he's doing it. It's okay that he's
11:04doing it so we should all feel okay to
11:06do it too. They were saying oh look he's
11:08not the perfect happy-go-lucky kid you
11:10think he is. He's having a nervous
11:11breakdown in New York. And I think that
11:13that was a really unfair line of
11:16journalism let's say because I just
11:18think it again kind of painted
11:21people
11:23looking for help in the wrong light if
11:25you know what I mean.
11:25Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. It
11:27almost sounds like you were
11:29actually preemptively
11:32going I'm doing this so that I don't
11:34Right.
11:35go in that direction."
11:36Totally. at least I'm not trying to put
11:37words in your mouth, but
11:38Absolutely.
11:39it's almost like I'm proactively seeing
11:41that I could end up in a position where
11:43Sure. I might have a breakdown. I don't
11:44want to be in that position, and so I'm
11:45responsibly saying, "Guys, I'm taking a
11:48break
11:48Right.
11:49in order to protect myself." 100%.
11:51Yeah, which makes a lot of sense, and
11:52actually is quite admirable again.
11:54Totally. And that's kind of what the
11:55message of the show is about. Like the
11:56the message of our show is that asking
11:58for help should be something that we
12:00celebrate. If you're struggling, if you
12:02need help,
12:03if you feel bad, and you wake up, and
12:05and you go to a friend, a therapist, a
12:08teacher, an employee, or a colleague,
12:10and say, "I'm really struggling. I need
12:12some help." That should be something
12:13that we give you a pat on the back. Like
12:15I would love to help you. That I'm I'm
12:17delighted that you asked me. And that
12:19for me, that announcement was kind of my
12:22olive branch, and the press ran with it
12:25how they ran with it. But to be fair, it
12:27kind of gave me a great drive to finish
12:30The Crowded Room in the way that we did.
12:33To like, if you're not going to listen
12:34to my personal message, then you have to
12:36listen to the message of my show. Yeah.
12:38So it kind of went hand in hand.
12:39Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You've You've
12:41reminded me actually when when you said
12:43that, because I think we naturally today
12:45think of therapists or or doctors, but
12:47you you mentioned teacher there, and I
12:49was thinking when I was going through a
12:50really rough time at school once, I
12:52remember my walk to school from the bus
12:54stop, I'd see a teacher every day that I
12:57was really close with at school, but you
12:58never talk to your teachers
12:59No. walking to school, right?
13:01person.
13:02Yeah.
13:03But I was so lonely at the time that I
13:04remember like almost thinking like,
13:06"Well, he's the only person I can talk
13:07to because of other stuff that I was
13:09going through at school." And I remember
13:10I started talking to him on the way to
13:12school. His name is Mr. Buckridge. He
13:14knows I go on about him everywhere, and
13:16he avoids it because
13:20And but it was it was that exact feeling
13:22where it was like he was someone that I
13:23felt I could open to it that open up to
13:25it at that point in my life without
13:26feeling judged, without feeling like he
13:28was going to see me through another
13:29lens. And just having that space to be
13:32seen for as a human who was going
13:34through stuff by a teacher was a huge
13:37huge win. And so, you know, it's you are
13:40right that that help can come in all
13:41different forms and it does it doesn't
13:44have to come in the ways that we expect
13:45it to come in. Yeah, it doesn't have to
13:46be a professional.
13:47Yeah. I go to my friends a lot and and
13:50you know, some friends are better than
13:51others in certain situations. I've got
13:53some friends that are very much like
13:54pull your socks up and get on with it
13:56and then other friends who are like come
13:57here and have a cry on my shoulder, but
13:59like it it varies. So, I I I just really
14:02hope that that's what the show can do.
14:03It's it's sort of paint this positive
14:05picture of asking for help is something
14:07to be proud of. Well, that's a great
14:08message and and I think we all we all
14:10need to hear it. And I want to go back a
14:12little bit because there's a lot of
14:13interviews that you've done and I've and
14:14I've watched a lot of stuff over the
14:15time, but like we're talking about a lot
14:17of it's soundbites because it's quick
14:18and short and like these entertainment,
14:20you know, interviews and that's why I
14:22was really grateful that you took out
14:23the time to do this, but you were
14:25diagnosed as far as I read with dyslexia
14:27at age seven. Yes.
14:29And I was wondering how, you know, a lot
14:31of our community and our audience is
14:33diagnosed as well or some of them are
14:34not, but they're finding out later on in
14:36life. How did that affect you or how
14:37were you set up for success with that
14:40from the because as an actor you've got
14:41to learn lines, you've got to read
14:42lines, you there's a lot of activities
14:44that people would assume are quite
14:46challenging. Sure.
14:47But you found a way and and walk us
14:48through that a little bit. I don't know.
14:50I had my mom has always been really
14:52hands-on with our education.
14:53Mhm.
14:54She
14:55you know, really wanted us to just do
14:57our best. Our dad always said like look,
14:58I don't care what grades you get as long
15:00as you try your best, you try your best
15:01and that's all that we can ask for.
15:03But yeah, my dyslexia
15:06it's really just my spelling. I mean,
15:08honestly
15:08It's just that, yeah.
15:09You know, like those sort of games that
15:11you play at Christmas. Have you ever
15:13played um the one where you have to
15:14write down the answers that you it's I
15:16it's such a good game.
15:17Is it Balderdash? I don't know
15:18Balderdash. Is it uh It's basically a
15:20game where someone will read out a
15:21scenario or um Right. ask a question and
15:25then you have to answer the question to
15:26the best of your ability, but you can
15:28also bluff and lie.
15:30never played this game.
15:31you write somewhat of a believing answer
15:33and people vote for your answer, you
15:35win. Oh, cool. Okay, I've never played
15:36it.
15:37Which is great, but when I play it,
15:38everyone's like
15:40What does that say?
15:42That is definitely not spelled right.
15:44Good one. But yeah, so my spelling was
15:46really the biggest hurdle. Um I worked
15:48really hard at school. I didn't do
15:50particularly well, but
15:52again, my parents said as long as you
15:53try your best and that's all we can ask
15:55for. Yeah. And acting you started early,
15:56too, age nine, right? Like that was
15:58something that you started pursuing
16:00really early on in life and I feel Was
16:02that something that you were always sure
16:03about? There's that There's that famous
16:05viral Tik Tok that always goes around of
16:07you
16:08you know, I can't I don't know how old
16:09you were being asked you know, what
16:11superhero would you play All right.
16:13Yeah.
16:13older and you say, "Oh, maybe
16:14Spider-Man." Right? And it's like And
16:15And I wonder like how much of your
16:19acting career do you feel like you've
16:21manifested or there was a vision or a
16:22focus or is it more just like this was
16:25naturally what you were into and it And
16:26it grew. Where Where did that come from?
16:28I do believe in manifesting, actually. I
16:30really do. I think what's interesting
16:31about my career is this was never
16:33something I wanted.
16:35I just was a young kid. I loved dancing.
16:38My mom would take me to a dance class
16:39every Saturday.
16:41And I got spotted through that dance
16:43class to to audition for a show on the
16:45West End. I ended up doing the show. I
16:47loved it. Billy Elliot was the time of
16:49my life. I you know, it was such a cool
16:51experience. I mean
16:53just by complete fluke, an agent came to
16:55see the show the night that I was on.
16:57She signed me. She sent me to an
17:00audition for a film. I was lucky enough
17:01to get the part. All of a sudden I was
17:03on set with Ewan McGregor and Naomi
17:05Watts and we made The Impossible.
17:08And to be perfectly honest with you, it
17:10was it was just a hobby. It was
17:13something that my mom would let me do on
17:14the summer holidays. She was very keen
17:16that I kept my schooling up. And there
17:18sort of came that time in England where
17:19you were in between GCSEs and A levels,
17:22and you're trying to figure out my when
17:24I was going through that, you could
17:25still drop out at A levels. Obviously,
17:27now you have to do A levels.
17:29And
17:30I had that moment where I was like,
17:31"What do I want to do? I could try and
17:34stay at school and figure out what I
17:36want to do, or this thing that's been a
17:38hobby, but my sort of summer holiday
17:40activity, which is acting, I could try
17:42and do that for a living."
17:43And I've been so lucky that I've been,
17:45you know, offered jobs and all that sort
17:47of stuff.
17:48I decided to go with it. I I I joined
17:50the BRIT school because, you know, my
17:52mom was keen that I didn't go for school
17:54for an education, but went to school
17:57to expand my social skills and meet kids
17:59my own age. All my friends when I was 15
18:01were like 30-year-old people, cuz
18:03they're all adults from the business.
18:06Um so, I think my mom was keen that I
18:07had some friends that are my age, who
18:09are now my best friends today. So, I
18:11never really wanted this. I just sort of
18:13never stopped doing it. And I love it. I
18:16absolutely love it. I love the
18:17creativity. I love the building blocks
18:19that are required to put a film
18:21together. I love the collaboration on
18:23set between people from all different
18:25walks of life. You know, a film set is a
18:27melting pot of all sorts of different
18:29people.
18:30Um
18:31so, I love it. I absolutely love it.
18:32Yeah. Wow. And And I I read something
18:34that you said you were bullied for like
18:37doing ballet early which obviously got
18:39you into the playing the role of Billy
18:41Elliot cuz it's ballet and tap, right?
18:43It's both. So, was Was that Was that
18:45tough at the time? Or like were you
18:46trying to hide it? And then you end up
18:48on, you know, you end up at the West End
18:50and you're on the main stage and
18:51everyone's seeing it? Or was it kind of
18:53easy to navigate? And how did that go
18:55down? Because I feel like as a kid doing
18:57ballet and tap must have been
18:59a little challenging. Yeah, I mean, it
19:00was it wasn't easy, but it also wasn't
19:02tough, you know? I went to a rugby
19:04school, so you can imagine like the one
19:07kid in the school that does ballet.
19:10There's going to be comments here and
19:11there. It wasn't the easiest thing in
19:13the world. There were kids that didn't
19:14understand why I was doing it or what I
19:16was doing it for. No matter how many
19:18times I explained like I'm the only guy
19:20in a class of 30 girls in tights. I was
19:22like, "Guys, this is what you want to be
19:23doing. Like rugby is not it."
19:26But I No, it was tough. But again, like
19:28it goes back to what we were saying
19:29about resilience and and keeping your
19:31head down and Crowded Room was the
19:33hardest job I've ever had for all sorts
19:35of different reasons and there was a
19:37point in time where we were talking
19:39about
19:40do we shut this down and walk away from
19:42it because of how challenging it was and
19:45you know, I dug my heels in, I put my
19:46head down and was like, "No, I'm going
19:47to finish this. I'm going to see it
19:48through." And I think, you know, you
19:50learn from past experiences like that.
19:51So, I really am proud of the way we
19:54everyone handled the Crowded Room and I
19:56think that stems from my childhood, my
19:58dad's experiences and all that sort of
20:00stuff. Yeah. Well, so I've got a
20:02confession as well to make.
20:03Go on. So, I went to rugby school as
20:04well. Okay. And I I I I
20:06I played Yeah, I played for my A team
20:08and I was I was pretty I was pretty I
20:09was pretty good.
20:09I was pretty good.
20:10Okay. What position did you play?
20:12Blindside flanker. Okay. Wow.
20:13Yeah. So, I was I was really into rugby
20:15cuz I went to rugby school and I loved
20:17football, but my school didn't play
20:19football and so I was like, "No, I've
20:20got to be on the school's main team."
20:21So,
20:22I worked really hard to get on the team.
20:24But after we played rugby on a Saturday,
20:26my mom forced me to go to dance class
20:30and part of it was ballet and tap as
20:32well. Although I did not end up at the
20:33West End and play Billy Elliot cuz I
20:35don't think Billy Elliot was brown. So,
20:37that wasn't going to happen. So, it
20:38wasn't the same path
20:40But but I also had that experience.
20:43That's why I had to ask you about it.
20:44enjoy it? I really enjoyed it for the
20:46community aspect of it. Like I love all
20:48the lads that I was there with and they
20:49were just they were just a great laugh
20:50and it was really interesting because
20:51we'd go from I'd literally go from
20:53playing rugby
20:55straight to class on a Saturday and I'd
20:56go in there with all my bruises,
20:58exhausted and all the rest of it. But
20:59everyone was just so much fun and it's
21:01almost like the rugby pitch was more
21:03stressful cuz everyone was like, you
21:05know, trying to be intense and trying to
21:07be this and that, whereas everyone's
21:08just having a laugh at the dance class.
21:09We do everything from hip-hop to street
21:11to whatever, but yeah, I remember never
21:14telling I I think this is the first time
21:16I've ever spoken about it.
21:17It's been a safe space with you.
21:19But it's interesting cuz rugby's
21:20regimented, isn't it? Yeah. I love
21:22rugby, by the way.
21:23You play a position that is as specific
21:26as saying the blindside flanker. You
21:28know, when you're a dancer, you're just
21:29a dancer. You know, you
21:31you can fit in however you want to fit
21:33in. The teacher can ask you how you're
21:35feeling about that rather than like you
21:37need to get your head down to the left
21:38to make a proper tackle. I did love
21:40playing rugby when I was smaller. Yeah.
21:42When all the Well, not when I was
21:43smaller, when all the kids were smaller.
21:45And then there was that time where I
21:47came back to school after Billy Elliot
21:48and everyone had just become a man and I
21:51was still very much a child.
21:53I remember we played this school called
21:54Trinity College. And it was my first
21:57game back and I was playing scrum-half.
21:58I came on the second half and it was a
22:00violent game. It was not It was not a
22:03gentleman's game of rugby.
22:05And
22:06I was standing there, we're kicking to
22:07us, we're receiving. And I remember
22:09thinking, as long as the ball doesn't
22:10come to me off of the kick, I'll be
22:11fine. I need the game to get going and
22:13then I'll be fine. I'm scrum-half,
22:15relatively safe position, a good
22:17playmaker.
22:18As soon as he kicked the ball, it's
22:19coming straight towards me.
22:22I I'm trying to catch it. I can hear the
22:23boots running towards me. I fumble it,
22:25knock-on. The game goes on. I start
22:28playing well. I assisted a try.
22:31And then I don't remember what happened
22:33or how it happened.
22:35But there was a a really tough kid on
22:37our team who will remain nameless. I
22:39haven't spoken to him since. I don't
22:40know what he's doing. But he got into a
22:41fight with some kid on the opposing team
22:43and it was really quite ugly.
22:46And then the kid's dad came on the pitch
22:49to tell off this boy that was on my team
22:52and the kid on my team knocked out his
22:54dad. No.
22:55Like proper Like it's the first time
22:56I've ever seen someone hit someone. And
22:59I couldn't believe that a kid who was
23:00How old are you, yeah? He must have been
23:0316 at the time. He's one of those
23:0416-year-olds that would look older than
23:06I do now when he was 16 and I just
23:09remember hearing the noise. He like
23:12cracked this dad on the jaw, hit the
23:13floor, then this whole big fight broke
23:15out. I'm not a fighter. I stepped away
23:17and was sort of like, "What's going on?"
23:19Yeah, it was wild. That was the last
23:20game of rugby I ever played. It was
23:22against Trinity College. Oh my gosh.
23:24Yeah, it was really intense.
23:25Wow, that that is intense. Yeah, that's
23:27how intense it got.
23:28I my last game was similar, but not not
23:31watching a fight. So, someone ran
23:34I had it was a big game and it was like
23:36I was playing really well that season
23:37and everything was going really well and
23:40someone ran into a rock, but with their
23:42elbow,
23:43which is obviously illegal.
23:44totally. They ran in and they elbowed me
23:46right there, like right below and it's
23:49on this side and right below there. And
23:50then next thing I know, I get up and I'm
23:53like kind of feeling a bit aggressive.
23:54Are you cut as well? Well, I didn't
23:56notice and then blood starts to drip and
23:58I was like, that's when you freak out.
24:00Mhm. Oh god, I'm I'm like I can And
24:01there's a lot of blood just dripping.
24:03So, I get subbed off and the nurse on
24:06the side just puts a bit of glue there,
24:08like to stick it together.
24:09Mhm. And at the at that time you don't
24:12really notice and you think you're all
24:13right. And then literally an hour later,
24:15it's just getting thicker and thicker
24:16and thicker and I ended up with this.
24:18Run to the hospital on the way home
24:19because my coach was just like, "Suck it
24:21up. It's fine."
24:22fine, yeah.
24:22Run there. They're like, "If you were
24:24any later, you would have had nerve
24:25damage." And like personally potentially
24:28lost your eyesight or whatever it was
24:29and they had to like glue it and a
24:31little bit of stitches or whatever it
24:32was. And I for the for the rest of the
24:34month, I walked around with my like, you
24:36know, eye literally hanging over and I
24:38looked like I'd got into like the worst
24:40fight. Like I walked into a store and
24:41everyone would kind of back off and
24:42stuff and it was just really
24:44uncomfortable. That was my last game of
24:45rugby. That's why I just remembered
24:46that. But yeah, it was it was it was it
24:49was intense, but it was great. Like you
24:51said, it was great regimented discipline
24:53training. I loved training with my
24:54mates. I loved playing. I loved as a
24:56young man as well like having a outlet
24:58to
24:59release the energy that I had I felt was
25:02good in in obviously in a way that
25:04wasn't trying to hurt others.
25:05what's so great about boxing. It's like
25:07boxing is such a great release. You
25:09know, you see these young kids like
25:10young kids who are angry who need to let
25:12something go like go and punch a bag for
25:14an hour. Like that will make you that
25:15will calm you down. I love how boxing is
25:18such a great thing for young for young
25:20people to to release that sort of
25:22energy.
25:22boxing? Do you box?
25:23boxing. It's been a few years since I've
25:25I've done any sort of training. I used
25:27to go to this great gym in in New York
25:29called Church Street Boxing. Used to
25:31love it there. Had a great pro. You
25:34could sort of spar with him cuz you know
25:35that he wouldn't batter you cuz he could
25:37control himself. I went to one sparring
25:39session just
25:41a general session and I got absolutely
25:43battered.
25:45Yeah, it was tough but I love it. I love
25:47the sport. I'm a little bit sad as to
25:49like how the sport is being run right
25:51now.
25:52But I do love the sport and I admire the
25:54athletes. Yeah. What's your take on
25:56YouTubers boxing and all that kind of
25:58stuff and because it's obviously
25:59bringing a lot of attention to the
26:01sport. To be perfectly honest with you
26:02mate, I don't really mind it. I think
26:04it's quite fun. I think if you're doing
26:06it for the right reasons, you know, it's
26:07just a great opportunity to raise some
26:08money for amazing charities and I think
26:10a few of them have done a lot for
26:11charity. I think it's really great. I
26:13think yeah, you know, my brother Paddy
26:15would never have been watching boxing
26:17and now Yeah. he loves it because of his
26:19favorite YouTubers are boxing. So, if
26:22it's good for the sport, it's good for
26:23the sport. I sort of don't really mind.
26:25I think it's funny to be honest. Yeah,
26:27cuz you sit at home watching it you're
26:29like I could do that. I could get in
26:30there and do that. You're like well, why
26:31don't you? You're like well, I don't
26:33really want to do that.
26:35So, we we might see you in Creed 4 then.
26:37That's yeah, we'll do the we'll do the
26:39acting boxing. I'd love to do a boxing
26:41movie.
26:42I think it would be cool to do a boxing
26:44movie but where the fighting is real.
26:46Walk me through that.
26:47I wouldn't necessarily be in that film,
26:49right?
26:50But I do think that you could make a
26:51really interesting film where the
26:54outcome of the film is determined on
26:57the outcome of the real fight. Has
26:59anything like that ever been done? Like
27:00racing or any Can you I'm just trying to
27:03Not that I know of.
27:04Yeah, not that I know of. That's what
27:05I'm trying to think. It could be really
27:07cool.
27:07Yeah, wow. But yeah, I love I love
27:09boxing movies. I'm a sucker for it.
27:11Yeah, yeah. Which ones Which Which one's
27:12your favorite? I think Rocky II is
27:14probably my favorite. I remember in when
27:16we were in Billy Elliot, we had this
27:18room called the Billy room and there was
27:20always a Billy backstage while the show
27:22was going on because the show was so
27:23labor intensive. It was very dangerous.
27:25There's lots of moving parts. There's
27:26lots of acrobatics. It wasn't too
27:28uncommon for a Billy to get injured and
27:30then there would be someone upstairs who
27:31would replace that Billy.
27:33And we would just hang out upstairs and
27:34there was an Xbox and a television and
27:36and all that sort of stuff. And one of
27:37the DVDs that we had The two DVDs we had
27:40were Step Up to the Streets, my favorite
27:42film of all time, and Rocky II. And I
27:44must have seen that film 40 times. I
27:47love that
27:47times did you practice the dance in the
27:48mirror? I've got the whole dance down,
27:51but Can we see it?
27:54Yeah, no, I love that film. I absolutely
27:56love that film. Yeah, I tell I tell my
27:58favorite So, Rocky was my favorite cuz
27:59I'd watch it with my dad. And Rocky
28:03I I struggle between Rocky and Rocky I
28:05loved Mr. T and I III That's III. And I
28:08loved Ivan Drago as well, which was
28:11And they were both just such great
28:13movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:14It's just yeah, it's such great
28:15entertainment even though it's nothing
28:17like real boxing.
28:18Yeah, nothing at all. Nothing at all.
28:20real boxing. But then I remember
28:21watching real boxing when I was growing
28:22up, it was Prince Naseem. So, I didn't
28:24Yeah, yeah, my dad was a big fan of his,
28:26so I'd remember watching him a lot. I
28:27love his style. There's a video of him
28:30working with the
28:32I guess he's just It's like a swinging
28:33bag and he is so effortless. Cuz
28:36Canelo's got great head movement, but
28:38but he looks like he's thinking about
28:39it. Whereas Naseem is just
28:42living the dream. Just he's so fluid and
28:44I love the way he used to move. Yeah.
28:47Yeah.
28:47And I love how he would enter the ring.
28:49Me, I would over rotate and slam on my
28:52face or something. Yeah, he was
28:53brilliant.
28:53Yeah, it's like wrestling meets boxing.
28:55Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He must
28:56have been a nightmare to fight. It must
28:58have been like, he's beating me and he's
29:00embarrassing me. This is really tough.
29:02Terrible. What do you think of
29:03Lomachenko? Did you see his last fight?
29:06No, I didn't see it. I didn't see it.
29:07That's an interesting one.
29:08Go and tell me. I I didn't see it at
29:10all. Well, I think the general consensus
29:11is that he won. Oh. But it was given the
29:14other way.
29:15Right. Right. Yeah.
29:16my favorite boxer because of his
29:18history, his background in dance. He was
29:20like, I guess, a really talented boxer
29:22and then I get I don't know if this is
29:23true, but his dad sent him to go and
29:25study dance for sort of 5 years or
29:27something like that. For his boxing
29:28For his boxing, which is why his
29:30footwork is like on another planet.
29:32There's loads of examples of where he's
29:33fighting people and they look up and
29:35he's just gone. He's behind them.
29:38So, I I really admire him, but his most
29:40recent fight he lost.
29:41How did it go against him? Was it a
29:43vote? It was a vote. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:45Yeah, right, right. It went against him.
29:47So, I wonder whether they'll fight
29:48again. Yeah. That I guess they'll have
29:50to if there's It seems like this isn't a
29:52conspiracy theory from you.
29:53with boxing, though. Like, will they
29:55fight again? You know, because it's it's
29:57a tricky it's a tricky business. Unlike
29:58the UFC where, you know, if they want to
30:00fight, they'll fight. That's what I love
30:01about it. I took my brother and my
30:02cousin to the UFC the other night. And
30:07that is such a savage sport. It is.
30:10That is
30:11Yeah, it's terrifying.
30:13Really don't want that to be a movie in
30:14a real one.
30:14Have you seen The Warrior? I was just
30:15about to say I was going to talk about
30:16my favorite movie.
30:18That movie
30:18That The Warrior is one of the most
30:19underrated movies. It's so good. Yeah.
30:21It's it's a little ridiculous, the idea
30:23that they have like six fights a night
30:25getting ready for one final, but I do
30:27love that film.
30:28Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really good
30:29movie. It's a really good movie. Oh,
30:31well. Okay. All right. So, we know
30:32there's a boxing movie coming somewhere
30:33down the line.
30:34be one down the line.
30:35There's got to be one down the line.
30:36Absolutely.
30:36Yeah. And we want to see you work your
30:38way up and
30:39think you I mean, we we're see you like,
30:41you know, actually go do it for real.
30:43Sounds like
30:43Yeah, imagine.
30:45For charity, maybe. One of the things
30:46that you mentioned recently was that you
30:49gave up drinking about a year and a half
30:51ago. Yes.
30:51And you said it was the hardest thing
30:53you ever did. Yes.
30:54And I wanted to know what was so hard
30:56about it for you. Why was it so hard?
30:59It's interesting. I I didn't one day
31:01wake up and say, "I'm giving up
31:03drinking."
31:04I just
31:06like many Brits had had a very, very
31:07boozy December. Christmas time, I was on
31:10vacation. I was drinking a lot. And I've
31:13always been able to drink a lot.
31:15I think I get my genes from my mom's
31:16side in that thing. Like, I can I can
31:18drink.
31:19And I decided to just give up for
31:21January. I just wanted to do Dry
31:22January. And
31:24all I could think about was having a
31:26drink.
31:27It's all I could think about. I I was
31:29waking up thinking about it. I was
31:30checking the clock, "When's it 12?"
31:33And it just really scared me. I just was
31:35like, "Wow, maybe
31:36maybe I have a little bit of an alcohol
31:38thing." So, I sort of decided to punish
31:40myself and say, "I'll do February as
31:42well. I'll do 2 months off."
31:44If I can do 2 months off, then I can
31:46prove to myself I don't have a problem.
31:492 months go by.
31:51And I was still really struggling.
31:53I felt like I couldn't be social. I felt
31:55like I couldn't go to the pub and have a
31:56lime soda.
31:58I couldn't go out for dinner. I was
31:59really, really struggling. And I started
32:02to really worry that maybe I had an
32:05alcohol problem.
32:06Um so, I decided that I would wait until
32:09my birthday, which is June 1st. I said
32:10to myself, "If I can do 6 months without
32:12alcohol, then I can prove to myself that
32:14I don't have a problem." And by the time
32:17I had got to June 1st, I was the
32:19happiest I'd ever been in my life.
32:22I could sleep better. I could handle
32:24problems better.
32:26Things that would go wrong on set that
32:27would normally set me off, I could take
32:29in my stride. I had so much such better
32:33mental clarity. I felt healthier. I felt
32:35fitter.
32:37And I just sort of said to myself like
32:39why why am I
32:41enslaved this drink? Why am I so
32:43obsessed by the idea of having this
32:44drink? And I would look back and
32:46recognize that I would go to events for
32:48for work and you know, I can't enjoy
32:50myself until I've had a few beers.
32:53And I just
32:54felt so much pressure and this is one of
32:56the things why I've sort of distanced
32:57myself from the rugby community cuz so
33:00much of it is about how much can you
33:02drink? Let's get you as drunk as
33:03possible.
33:04And it's honestly been the best thing
33:06I've ever done. I'm a year and a half
33:08into it now.
33:10It doesn't even cross my mind. I found
33:12amazing replacements that I think are
33:14fantastic. Ones that are also really
33:16healthy. I found this one beer that
33:19it's full of electrolytes and it's you
33:20know, the carbohydrates in it are
33:22long-lasting energy. So like having a
33:24beer is now actually like a really
33:25healthy thing. I'm really lucky that all
33:27my friends are super supportive about
33:28it. I've never run into that scenario
33:30where my friends are like, "Oh, go on.
33:32Just have a beer. Like you're fine."
33:33They've always sort of really supported
33:35me and I don't want to be that person
33:37that's saying to people, "You should get
33:39sober. You should get sober." If I could
33:41encourage someone to drink less,
33:43then that's great. But I I don't want to
33:44start getting into the world of you need
33:46to stop drinking because I just it's
33:48it's not for me to say. I went on my own
33:50little journey. I'm really enjoying it.
33:52I'm delighted that my mom's all has also
33:54given up. She's loving it. And it's been
33:56amazing. I can't believe the difference
33:58that I feel from not drinking. Yeah. I
34:00feel amazing.
34:01That's amazing, man. I love hearing
34:02that. And and I love hearing that it's
34:03been great for you, right? I think
34:04that's That's the point. Not everything
34:06has to be like, "Look what I did. You
34:07can do it, too." It's kind of like, "No,
34:08this is just what's been great for me."
34:10Do you think it was partly that attitude
34:13for you at least in the beginning where
34:14it's like, "Well, look. I can drink. I
34:16drink a lot. It comes from my mom's
34:17genes and it doesn't affect me." And
34:18then all of a sudden you realize, "Well,
34:19wait a minute. It's more than that."
34:22Because I think there is that like I was
34:23like that as a young man as well. Like
34:24for me it was it was easy to drink. I I
34:26didn't drink daily. For me I drank a lot
34:28more socially. And I I playing drinking
34:30games with my mates. And that that was
34:32really what I enjoyed the most probably.
34:34And for me, when I quit, I could just
34:36quickly see how it just got me into
34:39doing things I would never do if I
34:40wasn't drunk. So, for me it was For me
34:42it was more that. But yeah, I wonder for
34:44you, did you find that it's there's a
34:45really fine line between like, "Oh, I
34:47know I can drink a lot." And then all of
34:48a sudden, you're kind of addict- not
34:50addicted beyond that.
34:52mate. I'm happy to say that I was
34:53definitely addicted to alcohol. Not
34:55shying away from that at all. I think
34:57anyone that wakes up and has a Not wakes
34:59up. Anyone that has a beer every day is
35:01probably got a little bit of a problem.
35:03But yeah, you're right.
35:04I would drink and drink and drink and
35:06drink, and then you would just reach
35:07that moment where you're like, "Wow, I
35:08shouldn't have had that last beer." And
35:10you wake up the next day and you have a
35:11terrible headache and you're suffering.
35:13I I bought one of those rings that will
35:15tell you about your sleep.
35:17And it was amazing cuz I couldn't sleep.
35:18I was like, "Why can't I sleep? I'm
35:20working 14 hours a day. I'm doing 2
35:22hours in the gym. I'm eating really
35:23healthily, and I can't sleep. What's
35:25wrong with me?" I bought this ring, and
35:27it was booze. It just It was a
35:29completely affecting my sleep, and since
35:31I've given it up, I can sleep anywhere.
35:33You know? It's also interesting as well
35:35going on nights out
35:37and having a great time as the sober
35:39person, and then getting to that point
35:41in the night where people start, you
35:42know, spitting in your ear, and
35:44everyone's like, "I love you, man. I
35:45love you so much." And you're like,
35:46"Yeah, brilliant. I love you, too. I'll
35:48see you tomorrow. I'm going to bed."
35:49But I love being that person now. I love
35:52seeing my friends on the golf course at
35:548:00 a.m. in the morning feeling fresh
35:56and ready to go. And they're sort of
35:57crawling out their car and So, yeah. So,
36:00I I I'm
36:02over the moon to be sober. I love it.
36:04Yeah. For anyone who is listening right
36:06now and is going,
36:07"Tom, I love that for you. I want to do
36:09it, too." Like they're listening going,
36:11"I'm having too much every day. I can
36:12notice some of those things, but I'm
36:14just stuck." And it's hard because we
36:16know that addiction's that way. We know
36:17that this is heavy. It's not easy. But
36:20if someone is watching going, "Tom, tell
36:21me like what What did you do to even get
36:23started? How did you have that courage
36:25to say, 'I'm going to do January. I'm
36:26going to stick at it. Were there any
36:28moments where you actually fell back and
36:29then had to get back on the horse again?
36:31Like, just walk us through that a little
36:32bit more for anyone who is watching
36:34going, "Tom, mate, I I want to be in
36:35your position in like 6 months." I
36:37didn't fall back on it. I have done in
36:40the past. Like, I've had
36:42periods of my life where I'd given up
36:43drinking and then gone back to drinking.
36:45Um but this time
36:48I don't know. It was just different. I
36:51really worked to sort of change my
36:52mindset. I really asked myself like,
36:55"Why do you drink? Why are you
36:56drinking?" And a lot of the time my
36:58answer would be to feel more comfortable
37:00in the social environment.
37:01Yeah.
37:02And I just put myself
37:05in those environments and just would
37:06force myself to be there. I'd force
37:08myself to hang out and and go to a club
37:10or go to a bar or go to a dinner. Yeah,
37:12so you weren't avoiding those places. I
37:13was at the beginning because I didn't
37:15feel like I could go and not have a
37:16drink because of the stress of it. But
37:18then after a while I sort of was like,
37:20"Mate, you've got to pull your socks up
37:21here and you can't just live in your
37:23house all the time. You've got to go out
37:24and enjoy yourself. And And if you're
37:26only enjoying because you're drinking,
37:27then you really do have a problem." But
37:29I just changed my mindset. I just I
37:31found really good replacements.
37:34Things that I could sort of attribute to
37:36having a beer. I often found with me,
37:38most of it is just the ritual of
37:41cracking something open and sharing it
37:43with friends and drinking it. Whether
37:44it's sparkling water or a beer, I now
37:47can't I don't associate like I don't see
37:49a difference. Yeah. I don't think it's
37:51different for everyone. I had a great
37:52support system. Jack is one of my best
37:54mates and we travel all over the world.
37:56He doesn't drink and doing it with him
37:57was was a really
37:59helpful experience for me. My brother is
38:01always on the road with me. He was very
38:03supportive.
38:04And yeah, I just really set my mind to
38:06it. I was like, "I really want to do
38:07this. I want to prove to myself I can do
38:08it."
38:08Yeah. And then once I'd felt the health
38:10benefits and started really feeling like
38:13my full self, I was like, "Oh my god,
38:15this is this is the best." But do you
38:17not drink? I haven't drank for 17 years.
38:19No way. Congratulations. That's amazing.
38:22Yeah, it's it's incredible. Wow.
38:24one of the
38:28Like worry when I was about to quit was
38:29like how am I going to hang out with my
38:30mates? That was my biggest worry.
38:36That was me back
38:39Like
38:40Like a guy
38:44I was like crap
38:49Like
38:50Like
38:52Like
38:54Like
38:58Sure.
39:08Sure.
39:10Yeah.
39:17Sure.
39:18Sure.
39:23Right.
39:25Sure.
39:30Right.
39:38Yeah.
39:52Of course.
40:19There is a way community of people and I
40:22love it. I love being a part of that
40:24community. I'm really proud to be a part
40:25of it. I hope that, you know, I can meet
40:27other people and chat to them about it
40:29because it's really nice. It's lovely to
40:30be like, let's go get a lime soda
40:32together, you know? Yeah, let's get a
40:33juice. Yeah, let's get a smoothie. Yeah.
40:36Yeah, no, it it it is true. It's true
40:38and it's really interesting because they
40:39I can't remember I I'm trying to
40:40remember there was this blog that came
40:43out years ago. I can't even remember it
40:45now and there was this girl on Instagram
40:48who was getting a lot of likes and a lot
40:49of comments and a lot of attention.
40:52And one day she just disappeared. Like
40:56she stopped posting.
40:58And everyone was just like all the
40:58comments were like, where are you? What
41:00happened? Are you okay? Like what
41:01happened to you? You know, everyone was
41:02frantic trying to figure out what
41:04happened to her because they loved her,
41:05they were following her and all the rest
41:07of it.
41:08And
41:09what they didn't know is that it was
41:11built by a team that was trying to show
41:13that what people didn't notice is that
41:15in every picture she posted she was
41:16drinking. And it was a made-up it was
41:18almost like original AI that was made up
41:21to prove the point that you can love
41:22someone and you can think you're really
41:23close to them and you you can think
41:25their lifestyle looks amazing but
41:26actually they've got a drink in every
41:27picture they post and you didn't realize
41:29they had an alcohol problem. So there
41:30was no real person who died but the
41:32point was that this your friends could
41:34be struggling even when they're posting
41:37these beautiful lifestyle pictures but
41:39are you aware?
41:40Wow. And are you conscious of how much
41:41it affects you? And I can't can't
41:42remember who built that page.
41:44I I think that's one of the problems
41:46with alcohol is that if you came out
41:48with alcohol right now, if alcohol
41:50wasn't a thing and you like I've
41:51invented this drink that is going to
41:54make you like either really happy or
41:55really aggressive or really stupid and
41:58we're going to just sell it to the
41:59masses.
42:00People would be like,
42:01nah, mate, keep your funky juice. Like
42:03we don't want that. That sounds
42:04terrible. And it's one of those things
42:06cuz it is so socially acceptable that
42:08the addiction side of it, the bad sides
42:09of it really do fly under the radar.
42:11Yeah. And that's really interesting.
42:13I'll tell you something I do love about
42:14being a non-drinker. I love being the
42:16designated driver.
42:17Yeah.
42:18I love being that person that makes sure
42:20that everyone gets home.
42:22I don't know. I just I like being a
42:24dependable person. I I think I'm quite
42:26dependable and I really like that that
42:28um thing and I saw this crazy YouTube
42:30video once. This was years ago of a guy
42:34that went to a bar, he got drunk, and he
42:36drove home, and he crashed his car.
42:39And I don't know if this is real. It
42:41could have been fake, but it's really
42:42impactful. Basically, what his friend
42:44had done was
42:46set up the room as if he had been in a
42:49coma for like 10 years.
42:51And his friend wakes up hours after the
42:53crash
42:54and his friend is there and he had all
42:56like old makeup on to make him look
42:58older.
42:59And now I'm thinking about it, there's
43:00no way this could have been real because
43:02how would they have been able to pull
43:03that off? But he basically is saying to
43:05him like,
43:06"You've been asleep for 10 years.
43:07Everyone's missed you. Like we can't
43:09believe you're awake. This is amazing."
43:10And it shows like how a stupid decision
43:13like driving drunk can affect the future
43:15of your life.
43:16So I do love being the designated
43:18driver. That is something I enjoy.
43:19Seeing my friends have a good time and
43:20being like, "Don't worry, Tom will take
43:21you home." Yeah.
43:23I I I used to love being the designated
43:25driver until I realized that my next
43:27girlfriend just had me do that because I
43:28was the one who didn't drink.
43:30That wasn't a fun designated driver job,
43:31but I've always been that guy since
43:34because so I I lived as a monk for 3
43:36years. Yeah, amazing.
43:37And when I came back after that,
43:39obviously I never went back to drinking
43:40alcohol and everything. And so but I
43:42went back into the workplace and I
43:43remember everyone would always open up
43:45to me and give me advice. But it's what
43:46you're saying, when someone was drunk,
43:48they'd tell me their whole life story.
43:49Yeah. Next day they'd wake up and go,
43:51"Jay, you don't actually remember what I
43:52said, right?" And I'm like, "I remember
43:53everything." They're like, "Please don't
43:54tell anyone."
43:55You know, and I loved I loved that part
43:57where I was like I was able to be there
43:58for people.
43:59Totally.
43:59Just hear their stories.
44:01100%.
44:02that had context the next day cuz if
44:03they told someone else who was drunk,
44:04you'd both not remember and it'd be
44:06gone. No, I I think the benefits that
44:08you've just pointed out of good sleep,
44:09good health, great mental clarity,
44:12they're huge. But, there's a couple of
44:13things I want to point out for everyone
44:14who's listening just as takeaways cuz
44:16Tom makes it
44:18so seamless when you're talking about
44:19it. It's really beautiful as well. But,
44:21one of the things you mentioned was
44:23finding alternatives. And during my monk
44:25life, we always talked about how there
44:26was there was something that we called
44:27the higher taste. And it was saying you
44:29can never give up a lower taste unless
44:31you had a higher taste.
44:32Sure.
44:32And so, there has to be a switch. There
44:33has to be a replacement.
44:34be a replacement. 100% the fact that you
44:36found alternatives, I think that's half
44:37the battle. Cuz most of us are trying to
44:39take something out of our lives, and
44:41then you're just trying to fill it.
44:43Yeah. And then you have to go back to
44:44what you had before because you're not
44:45finding a replacement. So, that was
44:47beautiful. And the second thing you said
44:48which I loved which was having this
44:50conversation and dialogue with other
44:52people. Someone who's 1 year ahead of
44:54you, someone who's 10 years ahead,
44:55someone who's 20 years ahead who's gone
44:57through that process, and they're open
44:58and honest and vulnerable about, "You
45:00know what? I did have a weak moment."
45:02Or, "You know what? This was really
45:03tough for me." And I think having those
45:05communities where you can talk about
45:06these things makes a massive difference.
45:08So, if anyone's struggling, I hope that
45:10those two things can kind of, you know,
45:12give you the support you need. And
45:13again, it goes back to the message of of
45:15the show is that like you should ask for
45:17help. And you should feel empowered to
45:18do so. Yeah. But, tell me about your
45:20monk life. Like, that must have been
45:22amazing.
45:23It was special.
45:23I've always been so tempted to go away
45:25and do one of those retreats where,
45:27you know, you go to somewhere like India
45:29and you go to those places where you
45:30don't speak for a month or something
45:32like that. Like, that must have just
45:33been the most enlightening experience.
45:35Mate, now that you've said that, when
45:37you when you want to go, I'm going to
45:38take you.
45:38Please. Cuz I would
45:39absolutely love to go. I met a guy I was
45:42on holiday earlier this year, and he had
45:44just got back from a retreat. He had 2
45:46weeks where he didn't make a sound. Mhm.
45:49And was just explaining to me how
45:51eye-opening it was.
45:52Yeah. Yeah, no. I I mean, to me it was
45:55one of the best experiences of my life
45:57because even the stuff that I did then,
45:59I was 22 years old when I did it.
46:01Even the stuff that I did then, I don't
46:03even know if I'd be able to do it
46:04anymore now, but there was such a like
46:06energy you had as a 22-year-old where
46:08you're just open to any experience and
46:09wanting to try it all out.
46:11Amazing. And I think for me it was
46:13because and it comes back to the people
46:15that have done things. When I was 18 was
46:17when I first met a monk. I I never
46:18really knew what monks did or
46:21any of their practices, but I met a monk
46:24who I write about in my book who just
46:27blew my mind because he was the first
46:28person I met that I felt was at ease
46:31with himself. And when I was 18 I'd met
46:34people who were like rich and famous and
46:36you know, beautiful and powerful and all
46:39this type of stuff, but I don't think
46:40I'd met anyone who was truly happy and
46:42content with themselves. Not happy like,
46:45"Oh, I'm so happy. Life's amazing." I
46:46mean more like happy with who they
46:48with who they are. with who they were.
46:50yeah, totally. And for some reason at 18
46:52that kind of like was an arrow straight
46:54to my heart where I was like, "That's
46:56that's real. Like I want that." And it
46:58just it's so hard to explain because
47:00everyone's like, "Well, how did you know
47:01that at 18?" I was like, "I don't know.
47:03It must have been how powerful he was."
47:04It's kind of like it's kind of like you
47:06wake up when when the sun's out and the
47:08light's out and you just wake up because
47:09you feel that energy. And I felt it
47:12through him and then I I went to
47:14university and I'd talk to him and I'd
47:15meet him in the summers and Christmases,
47:18but I just decided I was like, "I want
47:19to do this because I'd met someone who I
47:21felt had emotional and mental mastery in
47:25a way that I'd never seen before." Wow.
47:27And so when I went out there and whether
47:28it was the meditation training or
47:30whether it was the simplicity training
47:33of the lifestyle or whether it was the
47:35the the teachings and the values that
47:38you had to live by,
47:39I just got so I got so much from it that
47:42I honestly believe that anything that
47:43I'm good at doing today is because of
47:45what I learned during that time. And so
47:46anything I'm good at today is because of
47:48that. Do you think that you found what
47:50he had? Yeah, I believe so and I would
47:52say that
47:53Or has he
47:54still got it? right.
47:56Yeah, Yeah, I still see him every year.
47:57Amazing. And he still has it. Like
47:59yeah, it's like swag. Like it doesn't go
48:01away. He still has it. And yeah,
48:03definitely, definitely. I got a glimpse
48:05into it. Obviously, he's been doing it
48:07for, you know, nearly 30 years and I
48:09only did it for three, but you still get
48:11to a glimpse of it and you get an
48:13experience of it, so you know that it
48:15exists. And I think that's half the
48:16battle, too. Like even with your
48:18sobriety, it's like you just need to
48:19know it exists.
48:20Totally. And then you're like, "Wow,
48:21there's this other side."
48:23100%.
48:24though it's a challenge and even though
48:25I'm still trying to be more mindful
48:26every day and I'm still working on
48:28myself because it's Of course. It's an
48:30endless
48:31Yeah, it's endless. ongoing thing. Yeah,
48:33I know I know it. And and I take a lot
48:34of friends and and people I know on
48:36retreats there because just a couple of
48:38years ago I took someone that I love to
48:41one of the caves in Rishikesh. So, one
48:43of the things I love about caves is that
48:44they're equally dark and silent. Yeah.
48:48So, it's almost like the first time that
48:49we could be silent in this room and it
48:51would be silent, but the silence of a
48:52cave Yeah, yeah, yeah. Different level.
48:55And so, when you go in there, you can't
48:56see anything either. So, you can't even
48:58see yourself.
48:59So, you're so deep into the cave that
49:01there's no light from the mouth of the
49:02cave anyway. There's no light from the
49:03mouth mouth of the cave.
49:04Oh, I don't know about that. That's
49:05really stressing me
49:08No, you hold hands. No,
49:09you don't hold hands, but it's it's just
49:12it's one of those experiences that you
49:13actually get to experience real
49:16stillness and real silence and real real
49:19disconnection
49:21from everything around you. And then you
49:23can actually listen to yourself.
49:25Yeah, it's interesting. I would love to
49:27do something like that. Something that I
49:28find myself doing a lot
49:30is
49:32if I see
49:34a beautiful landscape or something
49:37I will try and
49:39see if I can find an angle of it where
49:41there's nothing man-made in the view.
49:45Cuz you know what it's like? Like you
49:46see a beautiful hill or something and
49:47there's a telephone pole in the middle
49:49of it or a lamp post or something. So,
49:51doing something like that where there is
49:53nothing but just
49:55mother nature and the silence and being
49:57with yourself.
49:58I'm obsessed with nature. It's like one
50:00of my biggest passions. I'm absolutely
50:02like this new our planet show has just
50:04come out. One sitting I've done the
50:06whole thing.
50:07Um so I would love to do something like
50:08that. So next time you go in let me
50:10know. I'll come with you.
50:11yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:11yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:12yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:12yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:13yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:13yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:14yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:14yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:15yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:15yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:16yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:16Oh, I love Bali.
50:17it was unbelievable. We went white water
50:19rafting and it almost felt like Jurassic
50:22Park. I was just waiting for a dinosaur
50:23head to pop out. And it was just
50:25beautiful. It was so lush. It was so
50:26natural. There was these waterfalls
50:28everywhere and another place that I've
50:30loved nature wise India of course we we
50:32mentioned but Iceland. I'd love to go to
50:35Iceland.
50:36a few years ago and my friend was
50:38filming a documentary out there. Mhm.
50:40And so I got to experience it with the
50:42documentary travelers and we went to a
50:43real glacier and we went to you know and
50:46and it was incredible to just it was the
50:48first time I felt like I'd landed on
50:49another planet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:51It was just I literally I was like this
50:52looks like nothing I've ever seen before
50:55in my life. Like I'm on another like I I
50:57could have Yeah. I could have gone into
50:58outer space and landed on another
51:00planet.
51:00There's a reason why every single space
51:02film Iceland is the first on the list
51:04for locations.
51:05Oh, is that the I didn't know that.
51:07Yeah.
51:07I'm think Interstellar probably shot in
51:09Iceland. So
51:10yeah, so I'm sure all of those films,
51:13you know, cuz you could do you could do
51:14Mars, you could do Venus all in you
51:17know, in Iceland. I would love to go.
51:20I don't know we were thinking about
51:23doing some climbing and I'm not sure
51:24about how I feel about
51:26glaciers and walking across them and
51:29just falling and never being found.
51:31Yeah, we we walked across them and
51:33obviously there were teams there
51:35but and then they had an expert and they
51:37went down into the glacier like they
51:38went into one like and it was and it was
51:41really scary because while we were
51:42walking on the glacier and we've got the
51:43I forgot what those little boots are
51:44called the ones with the kind of like
51:46The little prongs.
51:47Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I forgot what
51:48they're called, but anyway, we had those
51:49on and uh Crampons. Crampons. Crampons.
51:52Crampons, crampons, okay, crampons.
51:53Thank you for that, Jack. And so, we
51:55were wearing these crampons and and
51:56literally it was like three steps
51:58further and you you would have fallen
52:00and you don't see it.
52:01And you would never be found.
52:02you would never be found. You would
52:04never know and it would be like that
52:05movie, what's it, 126 Hours? Where the
52:07guy had to saw off his own arms.
52:09126 Hours, mate, in 10 minutes the ice
52:11would just
52:12Yeah, no, I That's a bit too far for me.
52:15Well, if you went with a group of, you
52:16know, experts and all the rest of it, I
52:18think Yeah, but you've seen the
52:18documentary. Sometimes the experts go
52:20out and it's a one it's a one-way story.
52:23They don't ever come back, you know?
52:24Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you got you got to
52:26be careful. I agree. I agree. I'll show
52:27you some videos later then because it
52:28was pretty
52:29love to. Yeah, please. It was pretty
52:30spectacular. It was really amazing. No,
52:32I I love I love that with your journey
52:34with Sub Zero and again, the other thing
52:36we were talking about this earlier,
52:37going back to it was you
52:40decided to take a break from acting
52:43Yeah.
52:44because you were doing this role, it it
52:46was really tough and challenging
52:47Mhm. and and you were like you need some
52:49time and again, you were saying that
52:50that was misconstrued. And I just before
52:52we dive into why you needed to take a
52:54break and and what was challenging about
52:56it, I just wanted to just if you wanted
52:58to give context to that and you don't
52:59have to, but if you wanted to just
53:01to clarify
53:02what you meant and what was going on
53:04there. It's only a break from acting
53:06because I'm an actor. Yeah. It's not
53:08like the acting itself. I just have been
53:10so lucky that in my life I've been
53:12working so much. I just wanted to take a
53:15break. I just wanted to be in one place
53:17for a while. I wanted to be with my
53:18friends, be with my family, move into my
53:20house.
53:22So, it wasn't necessarily
53:24oh my god, I need to have a break from
53:26acting cuz it's too much. I just needed
53:28to have a break from traveling and and
53:30working and and also, I've done so much
53:32of my growing up on the road. I needed
53:35to do a lot of growing up at home.
53:37Paying my water bill, paying my
53:39council tax and sorting out my bins and
53:41all that sort of stuff that they don't
53:43teach you at school, which I think there
53:44should be a lesson. I think there should
53:46be a lesson at school that's called
53:47life.
53:48Which is like laundry, basic cooking,
53:50like
53:52I didn't realize you have to pay for
53:53your water. I just thought that was a
53:54luxury of living in England. That water
53:56comes out the sky, and then it comes out
53:57your tap. I'm so behind on my water
54:00bill. I didn't realize.
54:01I'm up to date now, don't worry.
54:03So, yeah, I just wanted to take this
54:05break, and it's a shame again talking
54:06about the press and how they can spin
54:08things. It's a shame that this year off
54:10has come after this incredibly hard job,
54:12and that they kind of ran with this idea
54:15that yes, the show did break me, and
54:17yes, it was difficult, but I could have
54:18gone back to work. I was always planning
54:20on taking this break after this job. So,
54:23thank you for giving me the time to sort
54:24of clarify that. I am loving having time
54:27off, and going back to work is
54:29something that isn't really on my radar
54:31yet. I'm just loving being with my
54:32family and my friends, and and enjoying,
54:35you know, the fruits of my labor a
54:36little bit, and and traveling and seeing
54:38the world.
54:39Cuz, you know, we get to see the world
54:41for work,
54:42but it's different.
54:43Yeah. You know, going off of your own
54:45accord and and and seeing these places
54:47and meeting people is is what I love.
54:49I'm very social,
54:50which is one of the things I found so
54:51difficult about giving up alcohol is
54:53because I was like, that's my key to my
54:55social life. And then I realized, I was
54:56like, no, you're just actually
54:58naturally a really social person. The
55:00alcohol is a just an additive to that.
55:02Yeah. So, get rid of it. So, yeah, so my
55:04my my year off has been amazing. I'm
55:07loving it. I'm six months, seven months
55:09into it now. I have a job to go to, but
55:12you know, obviously we're going through
55:13this writer's strike right now. We're
55:15unsure as to where we are. Um I'm hoping
55:17that, you know, the writers can make a
55:19deal and we'll be looked after as they
55:20should be, because it'd be great to get
55:23back to work, but I'm in no rush. I'm
55:24really loving some time at home.
55:26Yeah, cuz how old are you now? 27. Yeah,
55:28and so if you've been working since you
55:29were nine, or at least, you know, later
55:31on into your teens, I think I mean,
55:32people forget that. And I I coach
55:34personally a a of musicians and who go
55:36on tour a lot.
55:37Sure. And I just finished a 40-city
55:40world tour for my second book. And we
55:42did like 40 cities maybe in like 75, 80
55:44days maybe. Like it was intense. We went
55:47all over the world. So we did like
55:48I've never done anything like that.
55:49Yeah. Did 15 cities in the US and then
55:5325 cities around the world. Wow.
55:55And so we did everywhere from Paris,
55:56Amsterdam, Berlin, Melbourne. We did
55:58three shows at the Sydney Opera House,
56:00Brisbane. Did Singapore. Did five shows
56:03in India. Did Dubai.
56:04Wow. But it was And it was amazing. I
56:06had one of the best experiences of my
56:07life. At the same time
56:09I was reflecting on
56:11my music clients who have to do 100, 150
56:13shows.
56:14Mhm. A lot of them pull out of doing
56:16their tours. A lot of them announce,
56:18kind of like you're saying I took a
56:19break. A lot of them will announce and
56:20say, you know what guys, I can't I can't
56:22finish. I can't do it anymore.
56:24And it's really interesting because I
56:25messaged some of them straight away
56:26saying, I always could understand why
56:29you needed that. Now I actually have
56:31actual empathy for you because now I'm
56:34on the road. And I can see how
56:36displacing it is. Sure. And I'm older
56:40and I have a certain set of skills that
56:41help me with that based on my monk life
56:43and all the rest of it. But I got I can
56:45imagine if you've been touring since you
56:46were 15 years old, which is what a lot
56:49of these artists have done.
56:50Yeah. You've like you just said, you
56:52grow up on the road.
56:53Sure. And then all of a sudden you're
56:55like, well, who am I and who are my
56:56friends and and what is my life? And now
56:58everyone that I pay is my friend and
57:00that's the only friends I have. And you
57:02know, and so it's really interesting how
57:04when you get a little glimpse into
57:05someone's life. And then on my the last
57:07show I had was in Barcelona. I know
57:09Barcelona. Yeah, it was amazing. And the
57:10night before my last show, Live Nation
57:13who was doing my show there, they also
57:15do uh Coldplay's tour. And they were
57:17like, do you want to come to Coldplay
57:18watch Coldplay? I was like, I'd love to
57:19watch Coldplay. So I went the night
57:20before to watch Coldplay. It was
57:21unbelievable. They did four sold-out
57:23shows of 65,000 people each night in
57:25Barcelona. And Chris I went to watch the
57:28fourth night and Chris Martin and the
57:29crew were just unbelievable.
57:31Yeah. And then I found out it was their
57:3289th show. And I was thinking, gosh,
57:35like it is so hard. Like it's just so
57:38hard and all their families are with
57:39them and traveling with them and all the
57:41rest of it. And so, I want to touch on
57:43that with you as well that walk us
57:45through because
57:47I've talked about this with actors
57:49offline and I don't think I've fully
57:50done it online. And so, if you're
57:52willing to go there, I'd really
57:53appreciate it. When you're playing a
57:55role, I think as a viewer we massively
57:57underestimate
57:59how hard acting is, especially when the
58:02role is the kind of role that you're
58:04playing in The Crowded Room.
58:06Yeah.
58:06I think we just underestimate as a
58:07viewer and I'm fortunate enough to know
58:09enough actors offline where I've had
58:10these conversations before, whether
58:12whether it's people who do method acting
58:13or whether it's people who you know,
58:15really try and get into character. Like
58:17you always hear about the stories of
58:18like how Jared Leto, when he was
58:19becoming the Joker, was sending people
58:21rats and human feces in their mail. Like
58:24literally live rats.
58:25if you send me human feces in my mail,
58:27there'll be trouble.
58:29I wouldn't be putting up with that.
58:30Yeah, you you and Jared Leto in a boxing
58:31match.
58:32be a boxing movie then.
58:34But but you know, that idea of like I
58:35think I think as viewers we don't It's
58:38what I'm saying is like when I went on
58:39tour, I was like, I get it. I get it
58:41now. As viewers, we don't get it because
58:43we don't really hear about the deep
58:45process that actors go through of
58:48getting into a role, playing someone
58:50with
58:51multiple personalities. Like you know,
58:53that I don't know. It is that Is that
58:55tough or is it actually Or is that not
58:57as Am I getting it wrong and that's not
58:58actually the tough part?
58:59You're definitely not getting it wrong.
59:00I think it's just different. It's
59:01case-by-case, you know? There are people
59:03like Jared who who dive into their roles
59:05and they do things like sending people
59:07dead rats and stuff like that. And they
59:08think that that's what they need to do.
59:10I've always been really good at
59:12separating my onset emotions from my
59:15personal life emotions.
59:17As a young kid, I used to really heavily
59:20rely on my personal emotions to get them
59:23to come across on screen. And And just
59:25found it really unhealthy. I just found
59:27that like the line between my life and
59:29my character's life would be blurred.
59:32And ultimately at the end of the
59:33experience of making the film, I would
59:35be a very different person, but not
59:37because of my experiences as Tom, it
59:39would be because of my experiences as my
59:41character.
59:42So I decided very early on to
59:45find certain techniques and certain ways
59:47to get into those emotions from a sort
59:49of technical point of view. I never sit
59:52on set and think about my my mom getting
59:55sick or my or never speaking to my
59:56brothers again or something like that. I
59:58never blur the lines with my personal
1:00:00life and my work life. I always leave
1:00:02work at work. There are jobs like The
1:00:05Crowded Room that are particularly
1:00:07taxing. Getting to those emotions on a
1:00:09daily basis is really difficult and
1:00:12really tiring.
1:00:13But, you know, it's probably somewhat
1:00:15like Coldplay on their 80th night show.
1:00:17You just dig your heels in, you realize
1:00:19you've got a job to do. We're all
1:00:20wonderfully well-paid. There are people
1:00:22that work far harder for far less. I
1:00:24recognize how lucky I am, so I'm like,
1:00:26if I need to cry today and tomorrow and
1:00:28the next 50 days in a row, I'll do so.
1:00:31Yes, it's difficult, but
1:00:33I think your question, I'm probably the
1:00:35worst person to ask that cuz I think I
1:00:37have like a really healthy
1:00:39outlook on how I achieve my emotions on
1:00:42set. Yeah. Um but I have worked with
1:00:44people that
1:00:46shut their bedroom door and just dive
1:00:47into the character and are pouring
1:00:49through the script every night and and
1:00:51are in character all the time and I
1:00:53admire them. I don't necessarily think
1:00:55it's the healthiest way to go about it.
1:00:57But yeah, I've always been really strict
1:00:59on myself to leave my work at work.
1:01:00Obviously, I come home and read the
1:01:02script and do all of my prep work, but
1:01:04I'm not I'm leaving the character at
1:01:06work because it's too it's too much.
1:01:08Especially when you're playing a
1:01:08character like like Danny from The
1:01:10Crowded Room, like you can't bring that
1:01:12into your personal life.
1:01:13It's tough.
1:01:14Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
1:01:16that but I'm actually glad I asked it to
1:01:18you the way because what I'm actually
1:01:19hearing is you did it early on and you
1:01:22saw it wasn't healthy. Sure. And so you
1:01:24actually found another way. Yeah. And
1:01:27and it's really interesting because a
1:01:28lot of people may not have found another
1:01:30way or that is their way and that is
1:01:32their method. And so it actually is
1:01:34interesting hearing it from your
1:01:35perspective because you're actually
1:01:37saying, "Yeah, I could have gone down
1:01:39that road. I could see the dangers with
1:01:41it."
1:01:41Right. And and obviously it depends on
1:01:43the roles, too. Sorry, you were going to
1:01:44say No, it's just it was my acting
1:01:45coach, Ben Perkins was my acting coach
1:01:47on my first film.
1:01:49And that film was really, really
1:01:50emotionally intense. And we started off
1:01:53by doing things like, "Can you imagine,
1:01:55you know, your mom passing?" Or can you
1:01:57imagine things like that? And I would
1:01:58cry instantly. Yeah. And he was the one
1:02:01that actually recognized at a point,
1:02:03"This is too much for this young kid to
1:02:05kind of take." So he devised these
1:02:08exercises where him and I could kind of
1:02:10have
1:02:11these fake arguments where I was as a
1:02:1312-year-old, oh, maybe I was older than
1:02:15that, 13-year-old could recognize that
1:02:17they were exercises and I would allow
1:02:19the emotion to kind of come from these
1:02:21kind of acting
1:02:23techniques, let's call it. So it was
1:02:25actually Ben that was the one that
1:02:27switched my
1:02:28my mindset. I can't take credit for
1:02:30that.
1:02:30Yeah. So you you live in LA? Yeah, so I
1:02:33moved to
1:02:35LA 5 years ago. Yeah.
1:02:37moved to the States 7 years ago. So I
1:02:38was in New York for the first two.
1:02:40Whereabouts in New York were you? I was
1:02:42on 23rd Street near Flatiron. Okay,
1:02:44nice. So yeah, it was good in in
1:02:46Manhattan. And moved with my wife. We've
1:02:48been married for 7 years.
1:02:50Amazing.
1:02:50Together for 10. Fantastic.
1:02:51And
1:02:52yeah, it's just been really interesting,
1:02:54mate. It's like, did you ever end up
1:02:56moving? Did you ever live in LA at all
1:02:57or in the US at all or have you always
1:02:59been in London? Sort of what we were
1:03:00talking about earlier, I've kind of
1:03:01lived all over the place. I've lived in
1:03:03LA, I've lived in New York, I've lived
1:03:05in Atlanta, you know, I've lived in
1:03:06Cleveland, which was amazing. Um so I
1:03:10I really like spending time in the
1:03:11States.
1:03:12Yeah. We just obviously created a room,
1:03:13we did a year in New York.
1:03:14Yeah.
1:03:15We moved to Tribeca, we started off in
1:03:17Midtown. And Midtown for me was a bit of
1:03:19a nightmare. It's where all the schools
1:03:20are. So, I'd come home from work and I'd
1:03:22come outside and it's like all the
1:03:24biggest Spider-Man fans you've ever seen
1:03:25in your life.
1:03:26Yeah, it's like the worst panic in the
1:03:28world.
1:03:29We moved out to TriBeCa to this
1:03:32amazing apartment which was really
1:03:33lovely. We were very lucky to be down
1:03:34there. But, um
1:03:36But, where So, how do you find LA? I So,
1:03:39you know what? It's really interesting
1:03:40because when I I moved to New York first
1:03:42Yeah. and I loved it. I found New York
1:03:43to be just a bigger, crazier London.
1:03:46Sure.
1:03:47more intense.
1:03:47Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and I love London.
1:03:49I'm a I'm a London boy through and
1:03:50through. I went to university here. My
1:03:53My family's still here. Mhm. My wife's
1:03:54family's here. Everyone's amazing. And
1:03:56so, but but I enjoyed New York. My wife
1:03:58didn't love New York. And
1:04:01also at the same time I I started
1:04:03spending more time in LA for work. And
1:04:06my wife and I just like fell more in
1:04:07love with each other when we were there.
1:04:09And so, that's what it was that drew us
1:04:10there. It wasn't really Everyone's
1:04:12always like, "Oh, was it career?" I was
1:04:13like,
1:04:14to be honest, we went there for a month
1:04:16for work. And we rented an apartment
1:04:18because we're going to be there for a
1:04:19month.
1:04:20Mhm. And we're living together there and
1:04:21we just loved living with each other
1:04:23there. Home is where the heart is.
1:04:25really. And so, we were like, "All
1:04:26right, we love it here. Why don't we
1:04:27pack our bags and move across?" And so,
1:04:29we went back to New York 2 months later.
1:04:31We moved over to LA. So, it wasn't even,
1:04:33you know. And now we've been there for 5
1:04:35years. And the truth is that I I was
1:04:37really intentional
1:04:39when I move somewhere. So, while I'm
1:04:40building my purpose and my work and my
1:04:42career, which I absolutely love what I
1:04:43get to do every day, and
1:04:45I I I could never have dreamed of doing
1:04:47what I do. I'm super grateful.
1:04:49But, at the same time I was really
1:04:51intentional about building community and
1:04:53family.
1:04:53Mhm. And it was like an actual like
1:04:55thought process. Sure. Where I was like,
1:04:57as well as you're always building the
1:04:58people you know at work, you're always
1:04:59building relationships, you're hiring
1:05:01employees and team members and
1:05:02everything. At the same time I've got to
1:05:04think about actually making friendships
1:05:06because in London I got all my mates. I
1:05:08got the my best man at my wedding. I've
1:05:09been mates with Raj for like 17 years.
1:05:11Like, I've got people around me, but in
1:05:13LA I don't have that. I don't have any
1:05:15family, any friends. I don't know
1:05:16anyone. And so, I really made an effort.
1:05:18And now, after 5 years, I can honestly
1:05:20say, you know, obviously not in a
1:05:22wonderful way, but the pandemic did help
1:05:24deepen some of those friendships because
1:05:26I was stuck with those people. So, only
1:05:27could go deeper. Made some really good
1:05:29friends.
1:05:30Nice. And so, I feel happy there, and I
1:05:33feel really connected to my purpose
1:05:35there. And at the same time, I love
1:05:36coming back to London
1:05:37Right. and hanging out with my mates.
1:05:39And so, I And me and my wife made a
1:05:40decision
1:05:41when we moved that we would never say we
1:05:44lived anywhere. We would just
1:05:46be allowed to go wherever we wanted to
1:05:47go. So, whenever my wife misses London,
1:05:49she's back on a flight to London. She'll
1:05:51come live here for 2 months and come
1:05:53back whenever she wants.
1:05:54Amazing.
1:05:54And And it's the same for me. And that
1:05:56kind of like not having a rule around,
1:05:57you know, obviously we're lucky to have
1:05:59that
1:05:59It's an amazing luxury to have.
1:06:01course. Yeah.
1:06:02And but yeah, I I I'm I share the same
1:06:04kind of outlook on it, you know. I I
1:06:06couldn't really say I live anywhere. I
1:06:07sort of live where the work is, and when
1:06:09I'm not working, I'm either here or in
1:06:10LA. Yeah. And And I'm so lucky to be
1:06:13able to sort of call the world my home.
1:06:15I just go wherever the the wind takes
1:06:17me. I can
1:06:17Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But that's
1:06:19glorious, man.
1:06:19Yeah, man. Yeah, it's been good It's
1:06:20been good for me. It's been good to me.
1:06:22And And I think with because of the work
1:06:24I do, it very clearly lets people know
1:06:27whether I'd connect to them or not. I
1:06:28feel like my work is so obviously one
1:06:31way Sure. that it's very easy cuz not
1:06:33everyone wants this in their life. So,
1:06:35it's kind of easy for people to be like,
1:06:37"No, I'm not going to make any effort
1:06:38with Jay. Or I'm going to make lots of
1:06:39effort with Jay." And so, it kind of
1:06:40makes it very easy cuz my work is me. Do
1:06:43you find because of what you do and your
1:06:45skill set and your experiences and your
1:06:47life as a monk that people unload on you
1:06:50a lot?
1:06:51Yes. Like Like you might meet a new
1:06:53person and they're sort of saying,
1:06:54"Well, I'm I'm feeling this way, and I I
1:06:56would love to try and get to a place of
1:06:58enlightenment." Like, that must happen
1:06:59to you a lot.
1:07:00Yes, yeah, a lot. It can It can happen
1:07:01at the train station. It can happen on a
1:07:03plane. It can happen anywhere in the
1:07:04world, yeah.
1:07:05And do you welcome those conversations?
1:07:07Do you like having those sorts of
1:07:09conversations? So I think it depends
1:07:11where we are and and it depends who it
1:07:13is and I always say to people as a
1:07:15disclaimer that I don't want to give you
1:07:17the
1:07:18belief
1:07:20that I can solve your life in 30 seconds
1:07:23or that I could ever solve your life for
1:07:26you.
1:07:26Totally. Just to be really clear that
1:07:27I'm and I always say that to people
1:07:29because people are like, "Jay, tell me
1:07:30what I need to do." and I'll be like,
1:07:31"Look, I just want you to be fully aware
1:07:33that I'm happy to share some insights
1:07:35with you
1:07:36but I don't have the power or gift or
1:07:40magical ability
1:07:41Right, right, right.
1:07:42to transform your life and nothing I can
1:07:44say in 30 seconds.
1:07:46I don't even want to take that
1:07:47responsibility on because
1:07:49we should really think about this. Like
1:07:51you should reflect on your life. Like
1:07:52especially when people are making big
1:07:53decisions where it's like, "Jay, should
1:07:54I break up? Should I move country?
1:07:56Should I do this?" and I'm like, "We're
1:07:57not solving this in 30 seconds." Like
1:07:59please don't
1:07:59is a bigger conversation.
1:08:00yeah, and and I like people that takes
1:08:02the pressure off me but it also takes
1:08:03the pressure off them. Yeah.
1:08:04Cuz a lot it's not even about me. This
1:08:06is about the fact that that person needs
1:08:07to make a really important decision and
1:08:09they're putting all the pressure of
1:08:10their life on that moment and actually
1:08:12I'm saying, "Well, let's just take it
1:08:14off." and here's a few things I want you
1:08:15to reflect and think about and I know
1:08:17that will help you and you'll figure it
1:08:18out. And so yeah, I I welcome them
1:08:20because I appreciate that
1:08:23I don't feel that I'm the one holding
1:08:26space Mhm. and I don't believe that I'm
1:08:28the one who has the power to hold space.
1:08:30I believe that the universe holds space.
1:08:32I believe that energetically that space
1:08:34is held
1:08:34Totally. by others and I don't feel I'm
1:08:36this powerful human being who's
1:08:40who's the one that everything rests on
1:08:42Sure. and has the answer to everything
1:08:43and I think that's what allows me to be
1:08:44liberated from it where I'm not like I
1:08:47also don't put the pressure on myself
1:08:48going, "God, I better say the most
1:08:49perfect thing to this I better change
1:08:51this person's life. life." Yeah, and I
1:08:53can't and I don't and I and I think once
1:08:55upon a time I probably did feel that
1:08:56way. Like when you're when you're
1:08:58immature and you're an amateur in your
1:09:00work, you almost feel like you have to
1:09:01have all the answers, and now I'm like,
1:09:03you know what? I don't, and it's fine,
1:09:04and actually people really appreciate it
1:09:06where you just chat to them, and you
1:09:08know. And so, yeah, and and again, you
1:09:11know, I'm I'm always happy to listen to
1:09:13someone when I can. Obviously, there's
1:09:14sometimes when I'm like rushing late for
1:09:15a plane or Yeah, yeah, yeah. trying to
1:09:17get into a car or whatever, and I can't
1:09:19I can't do it. But, I always stop and
1:09:21say hello, give someone a hug, and all
1:09:23those things. Yeah. So, I don't know if
1:09:24that answers your question, but No,
1:09:25absolutely it does.
1:09:26I guess what's what you're saying about
1:09:28making decisions, something that I am
1:09:30constantly battling with myself is the
1:09:32inner battle between my gut and my
1:09:34brain. Mhm. I know that sounds really
1:09:36weird. No, it's real. I go with my gut a
1:09:38lot. I'm very, very I think a lot of the
1:09:41decisions I make in life are very sort
1:09:42of instinctual. I don't like to be
1:09:44bombarded with
1:09:46evidence and facts and all that sort of
1:09:48stuff. I just like to feel a certain way
1:09:49about how
1:09:51I would like something to sort of
1:09:53transpire. Can be taking a film,
1:09:55accepting a script, doing a business
1:09:57deal, buying a house. Like, it's all
1:09:58sorts of different things.
1:10:00Through your monk life, did you feel
1:10:02like
1:10:03you would rely on your
1:10:05kind of inner instincts rather than like
1:10:08getting the evidence of this is going to
1:10:10make you this much money, or if you do
1:10:12that, these are the risks. How do you
1:10:14Where do you stand with that sort of
1:10:16thing? That was the most poorly worded
1:10:17question, but you know what I mean.
1:10:19Mate, mate, I think both I think this
1:10:21has been such a conversation that that
1:10:23is what a question sounds like in a
1:10:24conversation, and and I've I think I've
1:10:26asked you fairly poorly worded questions
1:10:28today as well, but I think that's what
1:10:30real communication is. Yeah. Yeah,
1:10:32rather than like, mate, I've got
1:10:33question one. Uh but, no, I I I think I
1:10:36get what you're saying, and if I go on
1:10:37the wrong track, let me know. But,
1:10:39living as a monk, you're trained to
1:10:41understand that everything exists in a
1:10:44certain mode. And so, I'll explain what
1:10:46that means. And so,
1:10:48in the monk philosophy, there are three
1:10:49modes. And the modes are the mode of
1:10:52ignorance, the mode of passion, and the
1:10:54mode of goodness. And it's said that
1:10:55every decision, every thought, every
1:10:58action, every intention, every
1:11:00relationship can be in the mode of
1:11:03ignorance, mode of passion, or mode of
1:11:05goodness. And the mode of ignorance is
1:11:07where your relationships or any act is
1:11:08based on insecurity or fear. Okay.
1:11:11doing something out of fear, or you're
1:11:12doing it out of insecurity, or you're
1:11:14doing it out of pressure, that's
1:11:15considered the mode of ignorance. And
1:11:17energetically, we all feel that, right?
1:11:19You know whether you
1:11:21I would know whether you were being
1:11:22forced to do this interview today Sure.
1:11:24out of out of some sort of fear or some
1:11:26sort of whatever it may be.
1:11:28The mode of passion is where you're
1:11:32doing something because you want a
1:11:33certain result. You're doing it just for
1:11:35the reward. You're doing it just because
1:11:38it's going to get what you want you
1:11:39want. It's going to get you to the goal.
1:11:41Okay.
1:11:41And so, that's considered the mode of
1:11:42passion. And again, energetically, you
1:11:44can tell that when someone has an agenda
1:11:45or Right, right, right.
1:11:46someone wants something out of you.
1:11:47I've come here to get my point across on
1:11:49something or right.
1:11:49Totally. And then, finally, the mode of
1:11:52goodness is the energy of like, I feel
1:11:55really at peace.
1:11:56I feel really at ease. This feels
1:11:58aligned with my values, and therefore it
1:12:01feels like the right decision. And so,
1:12:03we were trained to sense energetically
1:12:06whether things felt like the mode of
1:12:07ignorance, mode of passion, or mode of
1:12:08goodness, which was a really helpful
1:12:10framework because sometimes things were
1:12:12really hard to
1:12:14just sense without knowing where it sat
1:12:17in terms of a characteristic.
1:12:18That's so interesting.
1:12:19And so, that was really, really helpful
1:12:20at the time. And so, I find that I'm I'm
1:12:23the same as you where I make decisions
1:12:25energetically.
1:12:26Yeah. But I think having moved into the
1:12:29real world again, I felt that I had to
1:12:33start getting used to understanding
1:12:35other elements. Kind of what you
1:12:36mentioned earlier, which I loved, which
1:12:38was like, I wish they had a class on
1:12:40life at school. Because it's like you
1:12:42haven't paid your bill, and you know,
1:12:43you you know, there's football players
1:12:45not paying their taxes, or whatever it
1:12:46may be, and like uh that may be for
1:12:48different reasons. But anyway, you get
1:12:49the point that that there's some things
1:12:51that you just don't know, and so what
1:12:53I've started to do, and I've said this a
1:12:55few times, and that's where it's a
1:12:56little formula that I use. When I sit
1:12:58down with someone, whether it's
1:12:59business, whether it's relationships,
1:13:01whether it's work, even whether it's
1:13:02this, the first thing is always energy.
1:13:04That's my first gate that I that I want
1:13:07to get through. And if I don't feel
1:13:08energetically aligned with someone, then
1:13:11already there's no future here. Like
1:13:13it's not going anywhere.
1:13:13Really, wow. And then the next thing I
1:13:15look at is strategically, if it's
1:13:16business, so if it's personal, it's only
1:13:18energy. But if it's business, I look at,
1:13:20well, I like this person energetically,
1:13:22do I think they're strategically aligned
1:13:25with where this has to go? Like do I
1:13:27think they can actually implement this?
1:13:29Do I believe because a lot of people
1:13:30have great energy, but then they don't
1:13:32know how to implement anything.
1:13:34And then finally, I look at, well, does
1:13:35the money align? Does the monetary value
1:13:38align with the energy and strategy?
1:13:40Sure. That's been my business version of
1:13:42what I learned learned as a monk. So
1:13:44what you're saying then, that is a
1:13:45combination of both. Correct.
1:13:47Allowing like your gut, your energy,
1:13:50to kind of allow yourself to pursue
1:13:52further the opportunity, and then you
1:13:55take a sort of mental look at it to be
1:13:57like,
1:13:58I'm accepting the opportunity from a
1:14:01emotional point of view, now I need to
1:14:02see if it makes sort of logical sense.
1:14:04Correct. And if it doesn't, then we're
1:14:05going to stop there again. Yeah, yeah,
1:14:07exactly. So I've I've found that more
1:14:08useful for me because I found that
1:14:11energetically I I can get excited about
1:14:12a lot of stuff. Yeah. I'm the same.
1:14:15Yeah, and I'm and I'm that kind of
1:14:16person, and again, I never want to block
1:14:18that. At the same time, I think
1:14:20we have to become more selective with
1:14:21our opportunities, and know when to say
1:14:23no, and know how to manage stuff, and
1:14:25that's at least helped me. Sure. So
1:14:27again, I'm not saying anyone has to live
1:14:28like that. I'm just No, it's
1:14:29interesting. It's really interesting. I
1:14:31I'm very much like go off my gut. I'll
1:14:33tell you about my mom
1:14:35is an unbelievable judge of character.
1:14:38Wow. And I think she might have, without
1:14:40knowing what you're talking about, where
1:14:42she can pick up on people's energies.
1:14:44Yeah. Because we can meet a new person
1:14:47as a family. We've met this new person.
1:14:49The three of us could love this new
1:14:50person and another three could not like
1:14:52this new person. And my mom will be
1:14:54like, "No.
1:14:56Why?
1:14:56No. Don't like that person." And then
1:14:58within 6 months, all of us like, "Do you
1:14:59remember that person that we were really
1:15:00good friends with for a little bit?"
1:15:02She's really got a keen eye for people
1:15:04that we would get along with. She's
1:15:06amazing like that.
1:15:07Moms are like that. Now that you say
1:15:09that, all my mates who let me down when
1:15:10I was a teenager But your mom could have
1:15:12pointed out every
1:15:13time. Every time. I was like, "Mom, no.
1:15:15They're my friend. I'm never going to
1:15:17leave them. They're like a brother to
1:15:18me." And then like 7 months later, the
1:15:20person stabbed you in the back and then
1:15:22you're like, "Oh, Mom." Like, you know.
1:15:24But the good thing about moms is they
1:15:25wouldn't judge you for it. You know,
1:15:27they're like, "Look, I told you, but you
1:15:28have to make your own mistakes."
1:15:29Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. But
1:15:32I It's interesting that you've been able
1:15:33to hold on to that and I love that. Do
1:15:34you feel like you were asking me about
1:15:36moving to LA and I I think What have you
1:15:39felt and there's a part of you that's
1:15:40obviously wanting to be back in
1:15:41Kingston, be back to who you are. Have
1:15:44you felt that there's been parts of
1:15:45yourself that have been challenged? I
1:15:47don't feel sitting with you today that
1:15:49you know, I I don't know you before. I
1:15:51don't know you after. I've only met you
1:15:52today, so I I can't judge who you are or
1:15:55what you enjoy. I All I can say is that
1:15:57when I'm sitting with you today, I feel
1:15:59like I'm sitting with an authentic
1:16:00individual and your energy comes across
1:16:01very easily.
1:16:02Thank you. Do you feel like you've had
1:16:04to hold on to that at times with
1:16:07opportunities, challenges, the industry
1:16:08or or is that all stuff that we kind of
1:16:11make up in our heads and it's actually
1:16:12just be yourself and you're fine? I
1:16:14really don't know the answer to that
1:16:15question. I I I've definitely walked
1:16:18away from a lot. Mhm. And I think had I
1:16:20not walked away from certain situations,
1:16:22let's just put it at that, I would be a
1:16:24very different person today. Mhm. I've
1:16:27been really good at keeping in touch
1:16:28with my friends, keeping my family
1:16:30close, listening to the lessons,
1:16:33not getting caught up in the Hollywood
1:16:35hype. Like I really am a massive fan of
1:16:38making movies, but I really do not like
1:16:40Hollywood. It is not for me. The The
1:16:42business really scares me. I I
1:16:44understand that I'm a part of that
1:16:45business and I enjoy my kind of
1:16:47interactions with it, but that said,
1:16:50I am always looking for ways to kind of
1:16:52remove myself from it, to kind of just
1:16:55live as normal a life as possible.
1:16:58Today, doing this is a very rare thing
1:17:00for me to do. Like,
1:17:02in London, to come in and speak to
1:17:04someone about my life is something I
1:17:05would not typically do, but because I'm
1:17:07a fan of yours and I was keen to kind of
1:17:11hear what you had to say and and chat to
1:17:12you today, I felt
1:17:14like this would be a safe space for me
1:17:15to do that.
1:17:17Um
1:17:18but yeah, I definitely think it has been
1:17:20an ongoing thought,
1:17:23which is don't lose yourself. I've seen
1:17:25so many people come before me and lose
1:17:27themselves and I've had friends that
1:17:29I've grown up with that aren't friends
1:17:30of mine anymore because they've lost
1:17:32themselves to this business and I just
1:17:35I'm really, really keen to focus on what
1:17:37makes me happy, which is my family, it's
1:17:39my friends, it's my carpentry, my golf,
1:17:43um the charity that my mom runs. Like,
1:17:45that is the stuff that makes me really
1:17:46happy and that's the stuff that I should
1:17:48protect. My relationship is the thing
1:17:50that I keep most sacred. I don't talk
1:17:52about it.
1:17:54I try my best to keep it as private as
1:17:56possible. We both feel very strongly
1:17:57that that is the healthiest way for us
1:17:59to to move on as a couple.
1:18:01Um so, I do try to keep as removed from
1:18:05it as possible. Like, you'll never see
1:18:06me at an award show that I don't have to
1:18:08be at. I'm never going to a red carpet
1:18:10event that I'm not in the film of, you
1:18:13know? I don't want the attention when I
1:18:15don't need it. I love the spotlight. I
1:18:18love the pressure that comes with it.
1:18:20Just watch that tennis documentary,
1:18:21Breaking Point.
1:18:22I haven't seen it yet. I love tennis.
1:18:23it. It's amazing. I never realized how
1:18:25brutal tennis was. I've always been a
1:18:26huge tennis lover. I'm now absolutely in
1:18:29awe of what those athletes go through.
1:18:32But there's a quote from Billie Jean
1:18:33King that's on the um
1:18:36stand at her stadium in New York that
1:18:38says pressure is a privilege. Mhm. And
1:18:40that is so true. Like, oh my god,
1:18:43feeling pressure on a daily basis in the
1:18:45capacity that we feel is such a
1:18:47privilege. I love feeling pressure. I
1:18:49feel like I thrive under pressure. The
1:18:50best golf I've ever played in my life is
1:18:53when there are cameras around and people
1:18:54are watching. I just think that that is
1:18:56a really amazing thing to be able to
1:18:58experience. So, I enjoy it while I can,
1:19:01and then when it becomes a bit much, I
1:19:02kind of become a bit of a recluse and I
1:19:04disappear and I come back to Kingston, I
1:19:06play golf, I play tennis, I hang out
1:19:08with my friends and my family, do the
1:19:09pub quiz, and and all that sort of
1:19:11stuff. Yeah. Um so, yeah. So, it is
1:19:14something I actively try to do. As I get
1:19:16older, it only gets easier.
1:19:18Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, and and I
1:19:21I can I can relate to that where in in
1:19:23my in my small way or in my world where
1:19:25a lot of my friends think like I'm in LA
1:19:27like always at events, always at
1:19:28parties. I'm not I'm not I'm like in bed
1:19:30by 9:30 p.m.
1:19:31Right. And I only live there because it
1:19:33works for me in in the world that I do
1:19:34in what I do, and Sure. Sure. and and I
1:19:36enjoy living in LA, but it's it I don't
1:19:38live there for Hollywood, and I think
1:19:40that's often the perception as well.
1:19:41Everyone's like, "Oh, you're all
1:19:42Hollywood now." And I'm like, "Well, no,
1:19:43not really. Like, I I don't really I
1:19:46don't really go to all the events and
1:19:47gatherings and stuff unless I need to be
1:19:50there or Sure. or I'm connected to a
1:19:51project. So, so I relate to that. What
1:19:53what You mentioned a few things there,
1:19:54but if I had to ask you as Tom, when do
1:19:56you feel most yourself? Like, when do
1:19:58you feel most connected or and what are
1:20:01you trying to reconnect to if you're
1:20:02like, "Well, I know what it is, but I'm
1:20:04still figuring it out again." I think
1:20:06when I feel most myself is to do with my
1:20:08relationships, so I'm going to leave
1:20:09that and not talk about that.
1:20:10Absolutely. But, I think the other
1:20:11thing, and this is such a stupid thing,
1:20:14but it's when I'm playing good golf.
1:20:16Like, there's something about how golf
1:20:18golf is the most humbling sport in the
1:20:20world. It doesn't matter who you are,
1:20:21doesn't matter how much money you've
1:20:22got, how successful you are,
1:20:25golf will batter you no matter who you
1:20:27are. And I love that's what I love about
1:20:29it, you know, you it's such a leveling
1:20:30sport.
1:20:31I love going to a golf course and
1:20:33meeting new people that I've never
1:20:34played with before. Playing around of
1:20:36golf. I struggle when I don't play
1:20:38badly. Like I've got a bit of a temper
1:20:40and like you're supposed to have 14
1:20:42clubs in your bag. I currently have nine
1:20:43and you can probably guess why.
1:20:45Um but I
1:20:48I just love being outside. I've always
1:20:50been an outdoorsy person.
1:20:52I love being on the golf course. I love
1:20:54my mates. They all love playing golf.
1:20:56There's just something about the
1:20:57challenge of shooting lower than your
1:20:59lowest score that really
1:21:01kind of takes my mind off of the work.
1:21:04The interesting thing about golf is that
1:21:07you could be having a terrible day. You
1:21:08could be really upset about something
1:21:09and if you play really well, you
1:21:10completely forget about it. If you play
1:21:13really badly, you then are playing badly
1:21:15because of what's happening outside of
1:21:17golf. It's like a really weird kind of
1:21:21catch-22, I guess.
1:21:22Yeah. Um but I love it. I think when I'm
1:21:24playing good golf is when I feel most
1:21:26like myself.
1:21:27Yeah. Wow, that's that's that's a unique
1:21:29concept, but I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:21:31Yeah, yeah. I've only ever played
1:21:33golf like twice in my life. Right. And I
1:21:35totally get the point of how humbling it
1:21:37is. It's horrendous. No matter how
1:21:40quickly you pick up other things in
1:21:41life, golf is not one of those things
1:21:43that you pick up that easily. Oh mate,
1:21:45you can sign the biggest deal of your
1:21:47life and go out to play golf to
1:21:49celebrate and it'll ruin your day.
1:21:51Like absolutely ruin your day.
1:21:52Don't go out to play golf to celebrate.
1:21:54never go out to celebrate. No, crazy. Do
1:21:57you play Do you still play any sport? I
1:21:59love playing football when I'm back
1:22:00here. So that's one of the things. My
1:22:01mates know that when I'm back in London,
1:22:04we're going to play a game of football.
1:22:05play? Well, we just We We will just play
1:22:07on like a seven-a-side pitch or a
1:22:09five-a-side pitch like close to
1:22:10Northwest London, which is where most my
1:22:12mates are. So like Nice.
1:22:13Stanmore, Edgeware, Watford. That's like
1:22:15where all my main mates are. And so we
1:22:17just go rent a pitch, kick a ball about.
1:22:19I'm not any good anymore. Sure.
1:22:20got the full kit and the socks and you
1:22:22know all that kind of stuff.
1:22:23look dressed to impress, bro. I've
1:22:25actually got Neymar's kit like from him.
1:22:28So, you best believe I'll show up to
1:22:30five-a-side in his full kit.
1:22:31I love it. I love it. Is it signed by
1:22:33him, too? No, it's not signed by him.
1:22:35That's just Yeah, that's just his kit.
1:22:36We went on a lads' holiday to Portugal
1:22:38recently to play golf. And at the resort
1:22:41we were staying at, the the people were
1:22:42so nice. They said, "Let's have an
1:22:44England versus Portugal football match."
1:22:46There was like, I think there was eight
1:22:48of us,
1:22:49and there was a bunch of Brits that were
1:22:50working at the resort, so they kind of
1:22:51joined our team, and we literally did
1:22:53England versus Portugal.
1:22:55It's a full-size pitch.
1:22:57We did 60 minutes, 30 minutes each way.
1:22:59I'm fit. I train every day. I absolutely
1:23:01love my fitness. I really, really like
1:23:03I'm into it. By the end, I could not
1:23:06make five paces without my legs cramping
1:23:08up. They are so fit, these football
1:23:10players. It's unbelievable. And we won.
1:23:14And it's so funny how the first 10
1:23:15minutes of the game was really friendly,
1:23:16like soft fouls, sorry, mate, like your
1:23:19free kick. And by the end, it was
1:23:21savage. It was really intense. Wow. At
1:23:24least you won. We won. I got an assist.
1:23:26It was actually a glorious assist as
1:23:28well, actually. I just I pinged the ball
1:23:31over the top. My brother made a run, and
1:23:33it bounced, and he managed to get his
1:23:35foot to it, and he chipped the keeper
1:23:36and scored. It was But there's no
1:23:38footage. There's no footage.
1:23:39No proof. Yeah, no proof. Yeah, no
1:23:41proof.
1:23:42think when the whole no proof thing,
1:23:44like we had the craziest experience of
1:23:46my life the other day. I'll tell you
1:23:47about it.
1:23:48Because our lives are so crazy, like
1:23:50there's no Why would I lie?
1:23:52But the other day, we went swimming with
1:23:54killer whales in Mexico. I said the
1:23:56other day, it was last year.
1:23:58And it was one of the most humbling
1:23:59experiences of my life. There's no proof
1:24:02of it. There's no evidence, cuz it was
1:24:03so off the cuff. We weren't planning on
1:24:05doing it. So, most people I tell are
1:24:06like, "You definitely didn't do that."
1:24:08But we we were in we were in Mexico, and
1:24:11we were on a boat, and we just so
1:24:13happened to see this pod of orca.
1:24:16Jack, my security guard, thought it'd be
1:24:18a good idea to jump in. He jumped
1:24:20straight in, flippers on, goggles on.
1:24:22And we were driving to keep up with the
1:24:24whales cuz they were kind of following
1:24:25our boat. So, by the time Jack had
1:24:27jumped in, he was like this. He was like
1:24:30100 m away, and you could see him, and
1:24:32the whales were like swimming around
1:24:34him.
1:24:35So, I'm just starting to freak out cuz
1:24:37he's a good friend of mine. And he's a
1:24:38security guy.
1:24:39he's my security. I'm like, "Jack, we
1:24:40got to get back to the hotel, bro."
1:24:42Um so, I said to the guy, like, "Excuse
1:24:44me, sir, can you turn around and go and
1:24:46get my friend cuz we now can't see him
1:24:48anymore? Like, he's gone." We found him,
1:24:50we got him back in the boat, and he sort
1:24:52of said, like, "Lads, you have to get
1:24:53in. There is It's unlike anything you've
1:24:55ever seen before."
1:24:56My brother Harry's like Googling whether
1:24:58or not it's safe to swim with them, and
1:25:00it's sort of the general consensus
1:25:02online is don't go swimming with killer
1:25:03whales. You can, there's never been a
1:25:05recorded attack in the wild,
1:25:08but they are wild animals. They're
1:25:10They're big as a bus. And also, Jack's
1:25:12giving it like, "Don't worry, Tom, I'll
1:25:13be there. I'll look after you." I'm
1:25:14like, "Jack, what are you going to do,
1:25:16bro? Like, what's this this whale the
1:25:17size to eat me?"
1:25:19So, anyway, we put the flippers on,
1:25:21put the goggles on,
1:25:23we find the whales. They're sort of
1:25:24interacting with the back of the boat.
1:25:26They're clearly curious.
1:25:28And I just thought, like, I guess it
1:25:31goes back to what you're saying, the
1:25:32mode of ignorance. I just was like, "I'm
1:25:34going to try it and see what happens." I
1:25:36jumped in,
1:25:37my brother jumped in, Jack jumped in. We
1:25:40kind of came together.
1:25:41We're 30 mi out of the coast, so it's
1:25:43literally like
1:25:45dark blue water, nothing below us. And
1:25:47to my relief,
1:25:49the whales had gone. We couldn't see
1:25:51them.
1:25:52So, I'm sort of thinking, "Oh, well,
1:25:54that's actually a bit of a touch. At
1:25:55least I can say I jumped in, and they
1:25:57have gone."
1:25:58But then Jack said, "Look down." And we
1:26:00looked down, and it came from beneath
1:26:03us.
1:26:04And what has been such an interesting
1:26:05experience for me was as soon as I saw
1:26:08the whale, I wasn't scared anymore
1:26:10because I could just tell
1:26:13that it wasn't going to eat me. You
1:26:15could don't know I don't know how to
1:26:16explain it, but you could just see from
1:26:18its body language. I remember it so
1:26:20vividly. It swam up to us. It was maybe
1:26:2210 m below us, and it was kind of
1:26:24motionlessly sort of just looking at us,
1:26:27and then it kind of rolled on its back.
1:26:28It did this weird thing where it kind of
1:26:30put its head like this, and you could
1:26:31see its eye. Like we were having this
1:26:34crazy like moment. And then it just swam
1:26:37off, and it was gone.
1:26:39And then for 3 hours afterwards, I
1:26:41couldn't speak. I had the biggest
1:26:42adrenaline dump. I just
1:26:44basically was
1:26:46asleep. But it was such an amazing
1:26:48experience to sort of
1:26:50meet the apex predator of the world, and
1:26:52it kind of look at you and just swim
1:26:55away. Mhm. Most people don't believe me
1:26:57because
1:26:57you. there's no evidence, but it was I
1:27:00think about it now. And then you know
1:27:02what's so funny as well? I see these I
1:27:04see like our planet. There's there's
1:27:06more footage of orcas hunting, and
1:27:08another way in which they hunt. There is
1:27:09no way I would do that again. Yeah,
1:27:11there's no way I'd get in there again.
1:27:14But yeah, it was amazing. Hearing
1:27:16hearing you explain it is like You're so
1:27:18present. Yeah.
1:27:19Like you can tell that you just you were
1:27:20so present in that moment. Like you
1:27:22stopped thinking about like, "Oh, well,
1:27:24you know, if I tell this after, then no
1:27:25one's going to believe me." Or whatever
1:27:26it is. You're just like, "Wait a
1:27:27minute." Yeah. You know, nature makes
1:27:29you present like that. And and that's
1:27:31what I love about nature is it's
1:27:32completely unbiased as well. Like if
1:27:34that whale wanted to have a snack, then,
1:27:37you know, it's not looking at you going,
1:27:38"Oh, no, but that's a famous person. I
1:27:39got to leave him alone." Or it just you
1:27:42are at one with Mother Nature. We're in
1:27:44the middle of the ocean. There's nothing
1:27:46we could do.
1:27:47And we just were able to enjoy somewhat
1:27:49maybe like being in the cave, like you
1:27:51were saying.
1:27:52It was just about us and this whale. My
1:27:54brother and I were holding hands, but
1:27:56then as soon as it presented itself to
1:27:58us, any stress just dissipated. And it
1:28:02was just this unbelievable experience,
1:28:04and it was so leveling. It was so
1:28:05humbling that it makes me feel like I
1:28:07can take on certain things.
1:28:09So it's was a honestly, even thinking
1:28:11about the experience now, my heart is
1:28:12racing.
1:28:13Yeah, I can imagine.
1:28:14Yeah, it was it was wild, yeah. It was a
1:28:16cool experience.
1:28:17That's that's an incredible experience.
1:28:19And it is different from the cave
1:28:21though, because I do think it's it's
1:28:23different when you're with another
1:28:24living being. Sure. And so, that's what
1:28:27I found like my my closest experience to
1:28:29what you're talking about is I went
1:28:31trekking with well, looking for mountain
1:28:34gorilla in Rwanda last year.
1:28:35that's on the top of my list. I would
1:28:37love to go.
1:28:38Okay, yeah, we we should do it. I would
1:28:39do that again any day because it was
1:28:42unbelievable. So, you're not again,
1:28:43these gorillas are not like in a park or
1:28:46something. They're they're mountain
1:28:47gorilla. They're in their world. And you
1:28:50go and look for them and there's no
1:28:51tagging devices or any tech. There's
1:28:54people who have watched the gorilla for
1:28:56so many years that they know where their
1:28:58droppings are. They know where families
1:29:00hang out. They know what their routines
1:29:01are. So, depending on what time you're
1:29:03going out, there's someone who's just
1:29:04around them who's calling their friend
1:29:06calling your guide saying walk this way.
1:29:08you got to go. Exactly. Just just to
1:29:09make it very very clear that, you know,
1:29:11the the gorilla is being treated very
1:29:12well. Uh
1:29:14so, you're literally looking around and
1:29:15you could be on the lookout for them for
1:29:18like two to six hours. You may not find
1:29:20them. You're just hiking.
1:29:22See, I love that though. You might not
1:29:23find them.
1:29:24Yeah, you might not find them. So, we
1:29:25found them in two hours. One group that
1:29:27we heard about cuz you go in smaller
1:29:28groups of like 10. The other group that
1:29:31we were friends with, they took eight
1:29:32hours to find gorillas, but they saw
1:29:34them, too. And when I went, I was kind
1:29:36of like, "Oh, we're going to see one
1:29:37gorilla, whatever. Like, they're going
1:29:38to be far away." Like, I was a bit
1:29:39skeptical.
1:29:40Sure. I didn't know how it was going to
1:29:41be. And it was incredible because we
1:29:43looked around for two hours. And I'll
1:29:45show you the video afterwards, but we
1:29:47got and we just saw them like hanging
1:29:49out kind of like how I'm looking at
1:29:50everyone here, just hanging out still.
1:29:53And then all of a sudden, they all
1:29:54started walking together. There was a
1:29:55family of 20 gorillas. Wow.
1:29:58two silverbacks that are like, you know,
1:29:59they're like their fists are like, you
1:30:02know, just huge. They'll zap you and
1:30:04you're gone.
1:30:04Yeah, exactly. And and it was really
1:30:05interesting because the guides who were
1:30:06there with us,
1:30:08they said to us that when you go close
1:30:09to them, kind of like and this is why I
1:30:11remembered it and why I'm telling you,
1:30:12it's because when you were talking about
1:30:14the way the whale looked at you, and it
1:30:15was kind of like you knew it wasn't
1:30:17going to eat you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And
1:30:18so they were saying that when you get
1:30:20close to these gorillas, the only thing
1:30:21you can't do is you can't touch their
1:30:22kids and you can't touch them. And so
1:30:23you can't drop something near their kids
1:30:25and then try get it back because they'll
1:30:27think you're trying to harm their kids.
1:30:28Told you. But what they recommended was
1:30:30they said you had to make this sound
1:30:32when you see them, and this sound means
1:30:35we come in peace. And so the sound was
1:30:39So that's you have to make that sound. I
1:30:41was all right, this is some Disneyland
1:30:42stuff.
1:30:44I was like I was like, yeah, I'm not
1:30:45believing this stuff. Like whatever.
1:30:46Like I was all right, I'm going to play
1:30:47around with it.
1:30:49Yeah. And so I'm walking around. So we
1:30:50go to the gorilla and we get close to
1:30:51them and I made that sound cuz we were
1:30:53told them to make that sound. And then
1:30:55the gorilla did it back.
1:30:57And it was just unbelievable. And then
1:30:59there was this one moment where we were
1:31:01walking and we were literally surrounded
1:31:02by gorillas. Now I was getting a And
1:31:04that's when I was like a bit scared
1:31:05because they were like all around us.
1:31:07And like literally if they run at you,
1:31:09like I'm done, right? You know?
1:31:10you can do.
1:31:11Nothing, nothing you can do. And so
1:31:12we're walking, they're walking around us
1:31:14and this massive silverback came up. So
1:31:17I'm my business manager was with me as
1:31:19well. And so he's there. He's like my
1:31:21godfather in LA. Like he really takes
1:31:24care of me. Very close to him. And so
1:31:26this big
1:31:28this big gorilla walks behind him and
1:31:31I'm looking at him going, "Oh man." Like
1:31:33he stopped. And we're all looking at him
1:31:36cuz he's got this massive silverback
1:31:37behind him. And I'm And we're all like,
1:31:39"How do we tell him to move?" And the
1:31:40guy's like, "Just be still. Like just,
1:31:41you know, be really present. Like you
1:31:43can't freak out." And the gorilla just
1:31:45went
1:31:46Wow.
1:31:47behind him and he moved out the way and
1:31:49just walked past. And it was just It was
1:31:51that same presence that you were feeling
1:31:53that I felt with them. And that's what I
1:31:54mean, the living being with another
1:31:55living being
1:31:57is is spectacular. So Do you think that
1:32:00level of ease comes from
1:32:03the helpless nature of being in the
1:32:05presence of an animal that could do to
1:32:07you whatever they want to. Like I think
1:32:09part of the reason why I felt so calm
1:32:11when the whale had come up was because
1:32:14there was nothing we could do
1:32:17should it go sideways. Yeah. And I think
1:32:20being almost finding that kind of inner
1:32:22peace of like I've made my mind this is
1:32:25the choices I've made. I'm here now.
1:32:27There's nothing I can do.
1:32:29It's almost like you should make peace
1:32:30with your choices, I guess. Yeah. I
1:32:32don't know.
1:32:33No, no, no. I think that's I think
1:32:34you've actually taken it somewhere
1:32:35really beautiful, mate. I I think for me
1:32:37as well, it's humility. Yeah, that's
1:32:38what And like when you when you meet
1:32:40someone new, rarely are we humble. Sure.
1:32:42We we often feel the pressure to be like
1:32:45or look at who I am or like, you know,
1:32:47or we're trying to create even if it's
1:32:48not of ego, there's a certain sense of
1:32:51like wanting to gain people's like and
1:32:53respect.
1:32:54Yeah, and you want to impress people. No
1:32:55matter what I do, this whale or gorilla
1:32:57is not going to like or respect me.
1:32:59Sure. So I better just be humble about
1:33:01it and at peace as you said.
1:33:02And it levels you.
1:33:03And it levels you and it and it allows
1:33:05that human being that that being also,
1:33:07of course, it's not, you know,
1:33:09of course, we're not record there's no
1:33:10we're not recommending that you just go
1:33:12into these places on our
1:33:13Oh, yeah. Yeah, but the idea being that
1:33:15I do think there's something magical
1:33:16about nature where
1:33:18humility is kind of nature's way. Mhm.
1:33:21And it is that what you're saying that
1:33:22when you're at peace with your choices
1:33:24and you're at peace with here we are,
1:33:26here I am. I can't do anything and guess
1:33:28what? It's okay.
1:33:30Right, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.
1:33:31It's somewhat sort of like I've made a
1:33:33decision. If the decision is a mistake,
1:33:35you got to live with it cuz you made it,
1:33:36I guess. I want to talk about sports cuz
1:33:38I was thinking so I I play a lot of
1:33:39tennis, play a lot of football. I play a
1:33:41lot of pickleball now. You play a lot of
1:33:43pickleball because that's that's a
1:33:44become a thing in LA.
1:33:46But but I'm massively more into paddle.
1:33:48I don't think you've ever I love paddle
1:33:49tennis.
1:33:50paddle. Paddle tennis is so fun. I want
1:33:52that to blow up in the US, but it's not
1:33:54going to. So when I went to Dubai and I
1:33:56went to Miami and I went to Madrid cuz
1:33:58they're big in Spain. Mate. Are they
1:33:59playing it here? Yeah? My local tennis
1:34:02club has got two courts. And like you
1:34:04can't book them. They're so sold out.
1:34:06All right. Honestly, paddle tennis, I
1:34:08love tennis.
1:34:09Yeah. I think tennis is one of the best
1:34:11sports in the world. And I think that,
1:34:12you know, they are the highest
1:34:13performing athletes, some of in the
1:34:15world.
1:34:17But it's really hard, tennis. Like I
1:34:19find unless I'm playing with someone
1:34:21who's much better than me, I don't play
1:34:23well.
1:34:24Like I really I I need to be chasing
1:34:26someone. Yeah. Paddle tennis is so
1:34:28social. It's it's easy to have great
1:34:31rallies. You still get the the
1:34:33the satisfaction of really smacking a
1:34:35ball. Cuz pickle is
1:34:37it's all about placement and and trying
1:34:39to kind of one up your opponent. Whereas
1:34:41at the kitchen and just doing the dink.
1:34:43Yeah. Why is it called a kitchen?
1:34:45no idea. And I That's So, I play pickle
1:34:47like paddle. Right. Cuz I'm I'm like,
1:34:49no. I'm going to play yeah.
1:34:51It's like, why? I do like pickle. Um but
1:34:55paddle tennis now.
1:34:56Paddle's amazing. Next time, yeah, yeah.
1:34:57Paddle's Paddle's one of my favorite
1:34:59favorite. I was in Dubai with a client
1:35:01for work for months a couple of years
1:35:03back. I played it every day for 3
1:35:05months. It's great exercise.
1:35:07Yeah, it's the best workout, the most
1:35:08fun. Like time just flew. It's amazing.
1:35:11But I was bringing it back to sports
1:35:12because I was saying I was saying, you
1:35:14know, you you personally tried to
1:35:16recruit Mbappé for Tottenham.
1:35:18I did, yeah. And and I just thought that
1:35:20was amazing because I was like, I've
1:35:21never seen this ever happen before
1:35:23where, you know, someone is using their
1:35:25clout in the right way. Listen, I saw
1:35:27him. I'm a mad Tottenham fan. And I just
1:35:30thought now's my chance. And he said,
1:35:32"No."
1:35:33The deal didn't go through. No signing
1:35:35bonus for myself.
1:35:37That was a crazy trip that going to the
1:35:39Ballon d'Or. Yeah. We were there for
1:35:40Spider-Man. Spider-Man was coming out.
1:35:42I'm not really sure how that was promo
1:35:44for Spider-Man, but like it was part of
1:35:46our trip for some reason. But it was
1:35:48amazing meeting these players. And and I
1:35:50admire them so much. when you can notice
1:35:53other athletes athletes and other
1:35:54greatness. And I see that at the top. We
1:35:56talk We've talked a lot today about and
1:35:57and you're really good at this. Like you
1:35:59really I feel like
1:36:00I feel like you're quite tuned in to
1:36:02like
1:36:03admiring and observing greatness and
1:36:06like the 1% and and trying to figure out
1:36:08what they're doing differently. And I
1:36:09think that's one of the things I've
1:36:10definitely seen of the 1% is that
1:36:12there's a humility in that they have the
1:36:14ability to appreciate other people's
1:36:17greatness and skills and values and
1:36:19purpose. Like they're not looking at it
1:36:21going I'm the best of all time. Sure.
1:36:23There's a part of that They They may
1:36:24have to say that for the cameras or they
1:36:25may have to say that before they go on
1:36:27the pitch. But actually if you talk to
1:36:28them and you ask them about someone
1:36:30else, they'll be like, "Yeah, best best
1:36:32player I've ever seen. Like they're
1:36:33incredible." And so who did you admire
1:36:36growing up in acting? Who do you admire
1:36:37today? Like who have been the people
1:36:38that And maybe on a mindset level or
1:36:40maybe on a
1:36:42or or a performance level as well. There
1:36:44are definitely performances of people
1:36:45that I look up to. There are There are
1:36:47the types of careers of certain actors
1:36:49that I really admire. There are also
1:36:50like
1:36:51the the types of lives that certain
1:36:53people lead that I really admire and
1:36:55that I really aspire to sort of be like.
1:36:58Um
1:36:59I tend to
1:37:01let all of my admiration go towards
1:37:03athletes. I'm just so blown away by what
1:37:07they can do under the pressure that
1:37:09they're under. Me as an actor, I realize
1:37:11that my job is a high-pressure job
1:37:13because it
1:37:15reaches millions of people.
1:37:17But that said, there are so many people
1:37:20that help me get to where I need to be.
1:37:22I get picked up. Someone makes me
1:37:24breakfast. Someone writes the words that
1:37:26I'm supposed to say. Someone chooses my
1:37:27costume. Someone does my hair and
1:37:29makeup. Someone sets the camera up.
1:37:32Ultimately, I walk onto set and I do my
1:37:34bit. But I'm a small part in a massive
1:37:36machine.
1:37:38But when you look at someone like
1:37:39Djokovic or Federer or, you know, this
1:37:41new Alcaraz
1:37:43or the golfers or or Lewis
1:37:47Lewis is slightly different because
1:37:48Formula 1 is so much about the team and
1:37:50the car and all that sort of stuff.
1:37:52They have to do it themselves at a
1:37:54certain point. There's only so much help
1:37:56they can get, but then when they walk
1:37:57onto that court for the first time, when
1:37:59they walk into the ring or into the
1:38:00octagon,
1:38:01it's them by themselves. They're under
1:38:03that amount of pressure. It's up to them
1:38:05whether they deliver or not. And I just
1:38:06have always been admiring of
1:38:09seeing some of the greats lose their win
1:38:11streak and come back even stronger. I've
1:38:13always really been an admirer of people
1:38:15that are able to do that. I think it's a
1:38:17folly when you see these win streaks of
1:38:1950 and 0 and all that sort of stuff and
1:38:21you're like, well,
1:38:22that to me isn't what a champion is. A
1:38:24champion is someone who had it all, lost
1:38:27it all, and got it right back again.
1:38:29Tyson Fury's story is a crazy one. I'd
1:38:31love to see AJ come back and be on top
1:38:33again because I'd love to be alive to
1:38:36witness that legacy that he would leave
1:38:37behind, you know? I feel sorry for him
1:38:40what happened to him when he sort of
1:38:43seemed to really lose it a little bit in
1:38:44the ring when he took the microphone,
1:38:45and I'd love to see him back on top and
1:38:47to to have some clarity and and to be a
1:38:50champion again because I admire him as
1:38:52an athlete. So, I save most of my
1:38:54admiration for athletes.
1:38:55Yeah. And musicians. I love musicians. I
1:38:57see someone like Ed Sheeran Yeah, Ed
1:38:59Sheeran.
1:39:00people in the palm of his hand. I think
1:39:02comedians are
1:39:03equally as talented. The ability that
1:39:05they can just go on stage and make
1:39:07people laugh. That is terrifying.
1:39:10Actors for me, because it's what I do,
1:39:12Yeah, yeah. it's like, meh.
1:39:14You know what I Yeah, yeah. I get I get
1:39:16what you're saying. I get what you're
1:39:16saying. And and
1:39:17at the end of the day, it's just it's
1:39:19it's taking what you can from from what
1:39:22you aspire for, all right? Like you you
1:39:23can take something from all these
1:39:25people. And and what I love about it,
1:39:26some of these people, you know, some of
1:39:27these people you don't, but I always say
1:39:29to people who are listening and watching
1:39:30that you can be mentored by people
1:39:32you've never met. You're right. Totally.
1:39:34I think that's a really important skill
1:39:36to gain because I think we live in a
1:39:37world right now where somewhat access
1:39:40has come easier, and we always think we
1:39:42need access to people directly in order
1:39:44to learn from them, but you don't know
1:39:46everyone you've just mentioned, even
1:39:47though you may know a couple of them
1:39:48closely. And And same with me, like I
1:39:50was really fortunate, you know, growing
1:39:52up as a teenager, I got introduced to
1:39:53like Martin Luther King's work and
1:39:54Malcolm X's work, and
1:39:56I was reading crazy stuff at that age,
1:39:58but it had a massive impact on my
1:40:00mindset. I never met all these people,
1:40:02and obviously would never have got the
1:40:04opportunity to do that, but I feel
1:40:06mentored by them
1:40:07Yeah, wow.
1:40:07without ever having sat in the same room
1:40:09as them, because you study like how they
1:40:11made decisions, and you study what they
1:40:13said and what they wrote.
1:40:15for.
1:40:15What they stood for, and how and and and
1:40:17the parts that you don't hear through
1:40:18history, the parts that were actually
1:40:20more difficult, and the parts where they
1:40:22weren't the perfect hero.
1:40:23Right.
1:40:24And so, all of that kind of stuff. But,
1:40:26Tom, before we go to the final five,
1:40:27you've been so gracious with your time
1:40:29today. I have to ask you if if you want
1:40:30to clarify the Harry Kane situation,
1:40:32because I'll tell you why. The reason
1:40:33why I say this is I had the dream. So,
1:40:36I'm a Manchester United supporter.
1:40:37Everyone in my community knows that very
1:40:38well. Right.
1:40:40I have always had the dream that Harry
1:40:42Kane, when Wayne Rooney retired, Harry
1:40:46Kane was going to come to Manchester
1:40:47United. Okay.
1:40:48was going to follow in the footsteps of
1:40:50all the great England forwards that have
1:40:51played at Manchester United.
1:40:53That didn't happen. Right.
1:40:55still holding on to that dream. But, you
1:40:57want him to go somewhere else. Well,
1:40:59listen.
1:41:00Listen. Let me just clarify, right? I
1:41:02love Harry Kane. I love Heung-Min Son.
1:41:04Heung-Min Son is my favorite football
1:41:05player. He is a hero.
1:41:07I love Tottenham. I'm a big Tottenham
1:41:09fan. But, I just I know that those
1:41:11players could thrive and have
1:41:14the best careers ever.
1:41:15don't.
1:41:17I just want to see I want to see Harry
1:41:19lifting a trophy, and I want to see Son
1:41:21there by him, and and and I just don't
1:41:24think Tottenham
1:41:24Yeah, you're rooting for the individual.
1:41:26Yeah.
1:41:27Yeah.
1:41:27I'll always be a Tottenham fan. I you
1:41:28know, I love being a Spurs fan. My
1:41:30brother Harry and I, you know, we've
1:41:31really bonded over it. But, I I just,
1:41:33you know, Harry Kane's one of the best
1:41:35strikers in the world. And um, he would
1:41:37fit into almost any team, and I'd love
1:41:39to see him on top. And I interesting
1:41:41question,
1:41:42do you think he would have had a similar
1:41:46season to Haaland had he gone to City?
1:41:49Ooh. Ooh, that's uh
1:41:52I I personally think
1:41:54Cuz I think Haaland's amazing.
1:41:56I think Haaland with his age, his
1:41:58strength, and his mentality, you know
1:42:00what's crazy about Haaland is I saw this
1:42:02interview
1:42:04and you know, obviously I hate it hurts
1:42:05me to say it, but
1:42:06City and all, but
1:42:08when Haaland did this interview, he just
1:42:10scored like I can't remember which game
1:42:11it was. He's unbelievable.
1:42:12He scored like five goals that game, and
1:42:14he was like, "I should have had seven."
1:42:16And and the interviewer was like, "Come
1:42:18on, though. Take some credit. Like you
1:42:19scored five goals." And he was like,
1:42:20"Yeah, I'm I'm happy with that, but he
1:42:22goes, you know, there were a couple of
1:42:23assists that should have gone in." And I
1:42:25thought that mentality
1:42:26Mhm. Yeah, that's what I mean his
1:42:27mindset.
1:42:28when his mindset, I was like he was he
1:42:29knew exactly which opportunities he
1:42:31missed, and I was like so I think it's
1:42:32an age thing. I think it's a strength
1:42:34thing. I feel like Haaland's kind of
1:42:35like I've always compared Haaland to
1:42:37like Ivan Drago. Like he was made in a
1:42:38lab.
1:42:39Right, right, right, right.
1:42:39Like he was made. Like he was
1:42:41manufactured to be this incredible
1:42:43talent. And I think City's good with
1:42:45like he he admits like he scores a lot
1:42:46of tap-ins, and I think that's his game.
1:42:49Yeah, but mate, there's no pictures on a
1:42:50scorecard, you know?
1:42:51a good way. I'm saying I'm saying like
1:42:53he's been built in that way, and City
1:42:54play that way. I don't know if Kane's a
1:42:55tapping guy. Like he's he's he's scored
1:42:57his goals have generally been a bit more
1:42:59diverse in that sense.
1:43:00Magic. Yeah. Magic is the way I would
1:43:02describe Kane. Yeah. No, I love I love
1:43:04him. And obviously it's a typical thing
1:43:06of like the press are out saying, "Oh,
1:43:08Tom Holland's begging Kane to leave."
1:43:09I'm not begging him to leave. I love
1:43:11that he's at our club because I'd be
1:43:12terrified to see where we'd be without
1:43:14him. But I just love to see him have the
1:43:16career I know he can have. What do you
1:43:18think of Jude Bellingham to Madrid? I
1:43:20think that's a great move. I love that.
1:43:21He just wants everyone to do that.
1:43:23that. And what's he What's interesting
1:43:25is that all of my friends in Spain are
1:43:26from Barcelona. I have one friend from
1:43:28Madrid. I've always been a big Barca
1:43:30supporter because I used to go to
1:43:31Barcelona all the time as a kid. I had a
1:43:33few weekends where I'd say to my mom and
1:43:35dad, "I'm going to my friend's house."
1:43:36and I would go to Barcelona.
1:43:40How did you pull that off, mate? Just
1:43:41sneaky, mate. If I told my Indian
1:43:43parents that, I was like they they know
1:43:45the dial tone straight away. Mate, I got
1:43:47caught. My mom called me up and was
1:43:49like, "Where are you?" I was I was
1:43:51trying to say I was at my friend's
1:43:52house. She said, "No, you're not cuz I'm
1:43:53here." And I was in Las Ramblas in
1:43:56Barcelona. Um but I just I just love
1:43:58players I think Griezmann is amazing and
1:44:01you know, I just love to see what he
1:44:03could do there. I think it's The thing
1:44:04for me is I love legacy. I love seeing
1:44:06what players can do. I'm less about the
1:44:08teams. It's what I love about tennis or
1:44:10golf, you know, it's not about the team.
1:44:12It's about the player. So, I would just
1:44:14love to see what he could do there. And
1:44:16you know, I'm sure one day we'll see
1:44:17England raise a trophy and and I we've
1:44:19got such a great young team and and um
1:44:23I admire them all, but yeah, I think
1:44:24it's a great move for him. And he's only
1:44:2619 or something like that. It's insane.
1:44:27Yeah, he's 19.
1:44:28That's wild. He's a year older than my
1:44:31brother, Paddy. That's mental. Mate,
1:44:34you've been amazing today, honestly.
1:44:36Like this is
1:44:37Yeah, this has been some of the most fun
1:44:38I've had in a long time. So, thank you.
1:44:40you. I appreciate it. But I want to ask
1:44:41We ask everyone the final five and so
1:44:43these are the fast five questions, which
1:44:45means answers have to be one word to one
1:44:47sentence maximum. No more than that.
1:44:50Okay. Uh and you don't have to write or
1:44:52spell them out. So, no no no problem.
1:44:54So, no no no
1:44:56none of that. All right, so Tom Holland,
1:44:58these are your final five.
1:44:59Uh question one, what is the best advice
1:45:01you've ever received? It's to turn your
1:45:03nerves into excitement. I like that.
1:45:05That would never happen on the show. I
1:45:07love that. All right, second question.
1:45:08What is the worst advice you've ever
1:45:10received? Move to LA, get a marijuana
1:45:12license and buy a hot tub. Who told you
1:45:15that? Mark Wahlberg.
1:45:18That's brilliant.
1:45:19No, he told me that on a chat show, so I
1:45:20don't know if that was legit advice, but
1:45:22I didn't take his advice. Okay, good.
1:45:25Well,
1:45:25who would you have been if you took that
1:45:27advice? Who knows? Who knows? All right,
1:45:29question number three. What's the first
1:45:31thing you do every morning and the last
1:45:32thing you do every night? Make my bed.
1:45:34It's the first thing I do. And the last
1:45:36thing I do before I go to bed,
1:45:38admittedly, is I check my emails, which
1:45:40I shouldn't do.
1:45:41But that is what I do. Yeah, it's bad.
1:45:43Yeah, we asked that just to make you
1:45:44aware of what you need to change.
1:45:46I do need to change that. Making my bed
1:45:48is a good start. I used to never do
1:45:49that. And now, like, my first thing I do
1:45:51is I make my bed. That's like my first
1:45:53challenge of the day. It's a good It's
1:45:55an easy one to get done. Question four,
1:45:57what's something you're trying to learn
1:45:59at the moment?
1:46:00I'm currently taking golf lessons.
1:46:03And uh We see a trend here.
1:46:04It's not going very well. All right,
1:46:06where where are you at at the moment?
1:46:08Thing is with golf is that the golf
1:46:09swing is a very, very particular
1:46:13thing. So, in order to get better, you
1:46:15do have to take quite a few steps
1:46:17backwards. I've taken maybe 25 steps
1:46:20backwards, but I will I will benefit
1:46:22from it eventually. Are you doing it
1:46:24every day?
1:46:25Every day. Not lessons every day, but I
1:46:26practice every day. I've always said
1:46:27that to my wife. I was like, "I want to
1:46:28go away for a month and I want to get a
1:46:30trainer. I'm going to play golf every
1:46:32single day." I mean, I know a great
1:46:33teacher. That's the only way I'd Yeah,
1:46:34that's the only way I had a really So,
1:46:35one of my clients took me to PXG in
1:46:37Arizona, which is like this beautiful
1:46:39place, Bob Parsons' place.
1:46:41And I had a coach there for 2 days. And
1:46:43I was like half decent after 2 days cuz
1:46:44the coach was so good.
1:46:46Yeah, mate. And when I got back to LA, I
1:46:47tried to get a coach and I couldn't find
1:46:48a good one. And then I had a coach that
1:46:50literally He came highly recommended,
1:46:52but it didn't work out for me. He He
1:46:53didn't let me take like 0.7 of a swing
1:46:56before he gave me feedback. And I was
1:46:57like, "I just need to hit a few. Like, I
1:46:59need to kind of just" And it was like
1:47:01every time I was about to hit the ball,
1:47:02but I was like, "Nope." "Sure, sure,
1:47:03sure." And I was like, "I just need to
1:47:04kind of like get a feel for it." And so
1:47:06The guy I go to is a guy called James
1:47:08Heath. Okay. And he
1:47:10does most of his teachings off of feel.
1:47:12So, it's not about numbers. It's not
1:47:14about results. It's more about how do
1:47:16you feel? I I he he calls it the feels.
1:47:19So, like, I'm working on twisting my
1:47:21hips more in my backswing. And he will
1:47:23say to me, "How does that make you feel?
1:47:24Like physically, where do you feel the
1:47:25stretch? Where do you feel the pain?
1:47:27Where do you feel the pinch?" That's
1:47:28what I need you to feel. And I, coming
1:47:30from a dancer's background, that's a
1:47:32really great way for me to learn because
1:47:34everything in dancing is about feel.
1:47:35Yeah. Um so, if you need a great teacher
1:47:38in London, James Heath is your guy.
1:47:39Thank you. Shout out James Heath.
1:47:41Yeah, shout out James Heath.
1:47:42Fifth and final question, if you could
1:47:44create one law that everyone else in the
1:47:46world had to follow,
1:47:48what would it be? Um I don't know. I
1:47:50don't know what one law would solve the
1:47:52most amount of problems.
1:47:55What would you say? Curious. I'd
1:47:56probably go to something you said
1:47:58earlier. If if I'm giving a genuine
1:48:00answer, like a real answer, is I really
1:48:03wish there was a life school.
1:48:06Oh, mate.
1:48:06Like I I that would be it because I'm
1:48:08not saying that would solve all the
1:48:09problems in the world,
1:48:10No. but it would set people up. And when
1:48:12I say life school, I mean emotional
1:48:14mastery. I mean 100%.
1:48:16ego mastery. I mean the ability to be
1:48:19kind and empathetic and vulnerable and
1:48:21compassionate and create safe spaces. I
1:48:23think a life school that taught you how
1:48:25to be non-judgmental
1:48:26Sure. and non-critical of others without
1:48:28understanding them. I think sure.
1:48:30That's what I mean by life school. So,
1:48:32not just the like paying taxes and bills
1:48:33and stuff,
1:48:34Yeah. but the life school of like, well,
1:48:36what if what if we didn't have to live
1:48:38in a world where we just said everything
1:48:39we wanted to and did everything we
1:48:41wanted to and got away with it and you
1:48:43know. Well, I think life the life lesson
1:48:45for me should be basic
1:48:47health and CPR and basic first aid
1:48:51training. It should be like you said,
1:48:53creating an environment at school where
1:48:56young people feel more comfortable
1:48:58talking about themselves, what they're
1:49:00going through, you know, things that
1:49:02might be happening at home or things
1:49:04that are happening at school. Like I
1:49:06think that that would be an amazing way
1:49:08for us
1:49:10to be more expressive and more
1:49:12comfortable expressing. And again, like
1:49:14I know I keep going back to it, but it's
1:49:15about what my show is about, which is
1:49:17you should feel empowered when asking
1:49:20for help. It should be something that
1:49:21you're proud of, like you're recognizing
1:49:23that you have an issue. It might be an
1:49:25internal issue, it might be an external
1:49:26issue, but you are seeking help, which I
1:49:29think is very admirable. Yeah,
1:49:31absolutely. Yeah. I do encourage and
1:49:33recommend everyone go watch The Crowded
1:49:34Room. I personally loving it with my
1:49:36wife, honestly, like I
1:49:38I barely watch TV shows, if I'm
1:49:40completely honest, and uh it's because I
1:49:43I like something that makes me think and
1:49:45reflect and you know
1:49:47and entertain me at the same time.
1:49:49Sure, great. And I and I think it does a
1:49:50brilliant job of doing all three. Like
1:49:52it's gripping. I'm like trying to figure
1:49:54out what's going on next. At the same
1:49:55time, I'm like it's it's amazing
1:49:57watching you
1:49:59being able to be this very different
1:50:02character to what we know you as.
1:50:03Sure.
1:50:04And that's really impressive. So even on
1:50:05like even on a performance level, I'm
1:50:07like I'm forgetting that you are
1:50:08Spider-Man. Nice.
1:50:10Right? Like and that's that's how I
1:50:11watch movies where I'm like can I forget
1:50:14Right.
1:50:14who this person is and or are they
1:50:16playing a caricature of themselves,
1:50:18obviously.
1:50:18Sure, sure, sure.
1:50:19you, I'm like I don't even think to
1:50:21think it's you. Right, right, right.
1:50:22Like right now I'm talking to you and
1:50:23I've been watching the show, I'm like oh
1:50:24it's not even the same person. Sure.
1:50:26And and that is really really impressive
1:50:27on a performance standpoint. So Well,
1:50:29thank you so much.
1:50:30Great show. It's been an honor, yeah.
1:50:32Thank you, mate. Thank you. If you loved
1:50:33this episode, you'll love my interview
1:50:36with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic
1:50:39and obsessive to find your purpose. Our
1:50:41children have become less imaginative
1:50:44about how to problem solve, and parents
1:50:46and coaches have become more directive
1:50:48in trying to tell them how to behave
1:50:50versus teaching them how to behave.

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