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This Podcaster Generated 1 Million Downloads While Traveling to 80 Countries (with Tim Hubbard) — Transcript

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0:00Most podcasters think longer episodes
0:02win. Tim Hubard went the other way. His
0:0611-minute show, Short-Term Rental
0:08Pitches, pulled nearly a million
0:10downloads and became the main way
0:12clients find his property company,
0:13Cororsley. In this episode, Tim shares
0:16why a short episode can outcon convert a
0:19long one. You are an important part of
0:22how this show reaches the people that
0:23need it. Please share it with someone
0:25you love. Leave a quick review, hit
0:27like, and comment in our YouTube
0:29comments. Each one helps it get found.
0:32Thank you for that.
0:35Welcome to the Podcasting Secrets Show,
0:37where successful creators share their
0:39best stories, secrets, [music] and
0:41strategies. I'm your host, Nathan
0:43William.
0:45Hello, incurable creators. My guest
0:48today is the CEO of Cororsley and one of
0:50the most experienced operators in the
0:52short-term rental world. He's built a
0:54personal portfolio of more than 70
0:56rental units across multiple countries,
0:58managing more than 100,000 guests
1:00through his company, and he hosts one of
1:02the top STR podcasts in the industry,
1:05Short-Term Rental Riches, which has
1:08nearly 1 million downloads. Please
1:10welcome Tim Hubard.
1:12>> Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having
1:13me, Nathan.
1:15>> So, Tim, can you share with us something
1:16that most people don't know about you?
1:18>> Well, that's a good question. Um,
1:21>> how about where you live? Okay. Yeah, I
1:24live in Brazil. I live in Brazil. Um, a
1:27lot of people through the podcast know
1:29that I I've lived in South America
1:31actually for like the last eight or nine
1:33years, but I have I have traveled a lot.
1:36I think most people probably don't know
1:38I've traveled to like 80 countries or
1:40something like that. Goodness. I've
1:42gotten gotten around quite a bit.
1:44>> So, of those 80 countries, which have
1:46been your favorite to visit?
1:49>> Yeah. Um, Brazil is is definitely up
1:52there. Um, you know, every place is
1:55unique and there's always nice things to
1:58take away from every place, but Brazil I
2:00really love. So, that's definitely one
2:01of my top. Um, I love I love Southeast
2:05Asia as well. Uh, South Africa I think
2:09is amazing place. Budapest is amazing.
2:13Uh, before Brazil, I I spent a lot of
2:14time in Colombia. I really like
2:16Colombia. It's got like a a piece of my
2:18my life with it, you know, and history.
2:21So, I think those are those are some of
2:22my top top favorites.
2:24>> Yeah. I I share with you a passion for
2:27Brazil. I I served a mission there for
2:29two years. And uh and then since the
2:32mission, I think I've returned 25 times
2:34and I've helped create four or five
2:36different businesses. And I just I love
2:38the Brazilian people. That's my favorite
2:40part of of Brazil. Just phenomenal
2:42people.
2:44>> They are. Yeah. for anyone that hasn't
2:46been there, you you can just feel the
2:47energy, I think, kind of the moment you
2:49arrive. It's a it's a great place. It's
2:52a great place.
2:52>> Yeah.
2:54[sighs] Can you tell me about your
2:57business?
2:58>> Yeah. So, um I've been in real estate
3:00for a long time. I guess 16 years now. I
3:03started in in the long-term rental
3:06investment side of things. Um, I worked
3:09as a commercial broker, uh, and then
3:12helping with investment sales in
3:14Northern California, where I'm from
3:16originally, and I was traveling a lot.
3:19So, I've always I've always kind of
3:20traveled, and that's how I discovered
3:23Airbnb. I was staying on there, you
3:25know, way back in the day. Um, and I
3:28decided to change my investments from
3:31long-term rentals to short-term rentals
3:32after I saw the opportunity and sort of
3:34never looked back. So, I've been doing
3:36that for a long time and that brought me
3:38out of California to to some other
3:40states and eventually outside of the US.
3:44I have a project down in Colombia as
3:46well and I started a podcast along the
3:50way about six years ago just talking
3:52about operations and they're they're
3:55short solo episodes and it was really
3:58just about my portfolio because a lot of
4:00people have been asking like, "Hey, how
4:01are you managing your properties from so
4:03far away?" and and getting good results.
4:06And so started talking about that and
4:09then kind of naturally a lot of people
4:10were asking reaching out from the
4:12podcast and saying, "Hey, can you help
4:14can you help with our properties?" And
4:16so we doing that about three years ago
4:18and that um is what Cororsley is today.
4:21And and Cororsley in short, the name
4:24comes from this idea of us being this
4:26core operating center behind all of our
4:29partners and uh owners properties. So,
4:32we're the ones that talk to all the
4:33guests. We're the ones that list their
4:36properties and manage all the pricing.
4:38And we do that all virtually. And so,
4:39today we're in we're in dozens of
4:41cities. And uh it's been a lot of fun.
4:45>> Why are short-term rentals so much
4:47better of an opportunity than long-term
4:49rentals?
4:51>> They're not always. Uh so, you know,
4:53there's a really big range with
4:55short-term rentals. I mean, literally
4:57everything from like a lakeside mansion
5:00to a treehouse. You can't get much more
5:02diverse when it comes to to property
5:05types. Um, but not all of them do well
5:08and not all markets are are equal. You
5:10know, some markets have more opportunity
5:12than others. And for me, it really just
5:15came down to a numbers thing. So, I was
5:16actually looking to invest in some
5:18long-term rentals. And I was staying in
5:21a city, uh, Memphis and Tennessee, which
5:23you wouldn't expect to be a good place
5:25for short-term rentals. and I had rented
5:27an Airbnb and I was looking at long-term
5:29investments and I knew how much I was
5:31paying per night and I knew how much uh
5:34the the long-term rental properties cost
5:36and how much the Airbnb cost and just
5:39made sense. So, started doing that and
5:42um you know, a lot of things have
5:44changed in the short-term rental world
5:45over the last 11 years. Uh but I think
5:48there's still a lot of opportunity. Um
5:51but it really does come down to
5:52operations today. So, a big difference
5:53with short-term rentals is you can have
5:56almost identical properties like same
5:58size, amenities, same neighborhood, and
6:01one property can be doing two or three
6:03times better than their neighbor.
6:05Whereas with a long-term rental, you
6:06don't really have that. You know, if you
6:07have like a four bedroomedroom, two bath
6:09home, maybe it rents for $2,500. You're
6:12not going to be able to rent your
6:14neighbors for 5,000. It just doesn't
6:15work that way. So,
6:18>> so why do two properties right next to
6:19each other do so much better? better
6:21marketing, better furniture, amenities.
6:26>> Yeah. So, if if you had like two
6:28identical short-term rentals right next
6:30to each other, the way that people find
6:32short-term rentals is through Airbnb or
6:34Booking.com or PBO, you know, a bunch of
6:37different platforms online. And the way
6:39that you show up on those platforms is
6:41really based off your review scores.
6:44That's what determines a lot of your
6:45visibility. And so if you don't do a
6:47good job with the operate operations,
6:49then you don't get a lot of visibility
6:51and then less people are finding you and
6:53less people are making reservations. So
6:54>> and then you have to charge less
6:57>> and then and then you have to charge
6:58less. Yeah. So it's really it comes down
7:01to that like having really good
7:02operations but also managing your
7:04pricing well and like you can have all
7:07the operations really dialed in and have
7:09great reviews but if you're charging too
7:11much uh or you know maybe you're not
7:13charging enough and you're leaving money
7:15on the table. So revenue management
7:17becomes a lot more uh important than it
7:20than it would in like the long-term
7:22rental world,
7:23>> right?
7:25You talked about some markets being a
7:27lot better than other markets. What are
7:28some of the best markets today?
7:31>> Yeah, that's a good question. Um, a lot
7:33of people I guess I I get this question
7:35all the time, you know, and there's like
7:37I don't know thousands of of markets in
7:39the US. I can tell you some of the ones
7:41that aren't as good and those are those
7:45are the ones that people traditionally
7:47think about when they think about
7:48short-term rentals and it's mainly
7:50because there's just so much competition
7:52now. So, you know, places like Panama
7:54City Beach, Florida or Dest, or the
7:57Smoky Mountains. These are places that
7:59have seen like thousands of new
8:02short-term rentals come on on the
8:04market. It's not to say that you can't
8:05do well in those properties because
8:07again, like things are very inefficient.
8:09There's some people that are way
8:11outperforming others, but as a as a
8:13general on the market, um there's pretty
8:16easy way to find out using data that's
8:19available today. You can go to a tool
8:20like AirDNA and you can look at the
8:23amount of new properties that have come
8:24onto a market and you can look at their
8:27occupancy and their average daily rates
8:29over the last couple years. And if
8:31there's thousands of units coming on
8:33board and the occupancy and the daily
8:35rates are staying strong, then you know
8:37that that market's supporting new units.
8:39But if thousands of units have come on
8:41and the prices have dropped and occupies
8:44dropped, then you know there's there's a
8:45lot increased competition and the
8:47demand's just not there.
8:49>> Yeah. So talk about this podcast and and
8:52how has your podcast helped support your
8:55business? [snorts]
8:56>> It's really been the foundation for our
8:58business. Um because you know I was
9:01we're managing our partners' properties
9:03the same way that we manage my
9:05properties. You know Corsley manages my
9:07properties as well. And I literally just
9:10talk about how we're managing properties
9:13on the show. You know each week is like
9:15a bite-size episode on some piece of the
9:18operation to help others that are doing
9:20it themselves as well. And I think after
9:23you listen to the show for a while, you
9:25realize like, oh my gosh, there there's
9:27a lot of pieces to this operation. And
9:30so I think the podcast has just given us
9:32credibility. It's given us the track
9:34record. Um, and it's really the main
9:38avenue for people joining us today.
9:41[snorts] Your episodes are only 11
9:44minutes long, which is pretty short for
9:46an episode. Why did you pick that
9:48length? and and how does that format
9:51work well for your audience?
9:54>> When I started years ago, I was looking
10:00for something honestly to just be easy,
10:02you know, uh I wouldn't have to schedule
10:04things out. I could talk about what I
10:07already knew, you know, and and things
10:10happening in the business. And so, I
10:12guess it was out of laziness, you know.
10:14I I enjoy talking to other people for
10:17sure. Um, but it it is a little easier
10:21to, you know, to knock out four episodes
10:24when I can just sit down and record on
10:26four topics that we've been doing day in
10:28and day out in the business and not have
10:30to coordinate anything.
10:31>> You you drilled down to a pretty
10:33specific niche. Can you can you tell us
10:36about choosing that niche and kind of
10:38why you chose that niche and and how
10:40that's been beneficial?
10:42>> So, I guess it's two-part. I I chose it
10:46simply because the investment returns
10:48were better, but I also found it more
10:50exciting, you know, working in the
10:52long-term rental side of things. Like
10:54you paint every property the same color,
10:56you put the same flooring in, you know,
10:59someone moves in, they move out a year
11:01or two years later. And short-term
11:03rentals were something that I was
11:05personally staying in for years and I
11:07still do today, uh, you know, throughout
11:09my travels and everything. And so it was
11:11it was just more fun. So, it made more
11:13money and more fun, but it's also a new
11:17niche or new industry, you know, at
11:19least it was 11 years ago. And it's more
11:23inefficient. And so, a lot of times when
11:25there's more inefficiencies, there's
11:27more room for opportunity. Uh, and I
11:29think there still is today. Like, it's
11:31still very inefficient. Um, and so,
11:34yeah, we're excited. I feel like we're
11:36kind of just getting started.
11:38>> [snorts]
11:39>> You've had nearly a million downloads
11:41and that's a huge milestone. What has
11:44been your secret to success for growing
11:46and marketing and promoting your
11:47podcast?
11:49Um, I'm sure part of the numbers come
11:52from the fact that they are short
11:53episodes, you know, and if someone
11:55enjoys one of them, they can they can
11:57listen to four or five on a an hour
11:59commute. Um, so I'm sure that plays part
12:02of it. Um, but I guess you know people
12:05that are actively in the industry,
12:08there's a lot of information out there
12:11and
12:13the fact that I'm talking about things
12:16that are happening in, you know, the
12:17real world on a day in and day out basis
12:19and that's what my team and I are
12:21focused on 100%, I think gives
12:23credibility uh to what we're talking
12:25about. And I'm sure that helps um build
12:29build trust and and people find it as a
12:31valuable resource.
12:32>> Today's episode of Podcasting Secrets is
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14:09Now, back to the show. Yeah. You lost
14:12your editor a while back. Um, had to
14:15make a transition and kind of refresh
14:17your show. Can you tell us about that
14:19process and and what you learned from
14:21it?
14:22>> I did. Um, that was kind of crazy and
14:26just really unexpected. I mean, when I
14:28first got started with podcasting, I'm
14:30sure like a lot of people, I just
14:31Googled, you know, how do I start a
14:33podcast? And this was before AI, and I
14:36went out and got a mic and I found
14:38someone on Upwork to to make me a little
14:40jingle and uh and to help me edit along
14:43the way. And so, I worked with um this
14:46guy for a couple years, and everything
14:49was really good. He had asked a couple
14:51times along the way if if I would give
14:54him like a 30-se secondond credit
14:56promotion at the end of each episode to
14:58let people know that, you know, he had
15:00been doing it for me. But my episodes
15:03are short, you know, as we talked about
15:05and like 11 minute episode with a 30
15:07second credit.
15:08>> Yeah.
15:09>> I I just
15:10>> You want to be promoting your products
15:11and services, not him.
15:13>> Exactly. Exactly. and and one day he
15:16just said, "Hey, I'm not going to edit
15:20your podcast anymore and I'm taking your
15:23music," which I thought was mine. I
15:25mean, I went on Upwork and that was the
15:27original thing we started working
15:29together. You know, he made the music,
15:31but all good. Found some new music and
15:33found a new editor and, you know, keep
15:35on keeping on.
15:37>> Yeah. You say listeners can tell who is
15:40living it and who's just reading about
15:42it. How do you keep that authenticity as
15:45your show's grown?
15:46>> There there are some guest stories and
15:49things that happen that you know are are
15:53just out of the blue. And so I think I
15:56use a lot of stories. You know, a lot of
15:58the topics start with with stories or
16:01things that have happened with my
16:03properties or, you know, things that
16:05we're learning with uh other properties
16:07that we're bringing on. And it is a
16:09niche market and so there's or a niche
16:11industry. So there's not a like a lot of
16:16people that have been producing content
16:18consistently for a long time and so I'm
16:22sure you know just the track record and
16:24the amount of guests that we have coming
16:26in adds adds to everything.
16:29>> Yeah. So you talked about it being
16:31niche. What advice would you give to
16:33someone in another niche industry who
16:36wants to start a podcast but thinks the
16:38audience is too small or is concerned
16:40it's too small?
16:42Yeah, you know, there's a lot of
16:44businesses that you don't need to have a
16:46really big audience or you don't need to
16:48have, you know, millions of people
16:51tuning in or watching your YouTube
16:52videos. Um,
16:55and in the property management space,
16:57like it's a small niche, but they're
16:59really important decisions. you know,
17:01someone's coming to us with a property
17:03that maybe is the biggest asset they own
17:07or, you know, and they're it's their
17:09retirement or something like that. And
17:12so, I guess it just depends on what your
17:15business is. If if if you have a very
17:17very low margin uh and you need a high
17:22uh volume of transactions, then having a
17:25small niche might be difficult. But um a
17:29lot of businesses aren't like that, you
17:31know, where you don't don't need a huge
17:32niche. So
17:34>> yeah, especially if the revenue that can
17:36be generated per customer is high,
17:38right? Because people pay a substantial
17:40amount of money for vacation rentals
17:42that each customer is more valuable. If
17:44uh you had a really small niche and it
17:46was about something people didn't pay
17:49very much money for like pens or
17:51something, it it may be more difficult.
17:54>> Yeah,
17:55>> I guess there are highend pens.
17:57Yes, that's right.
17:58>> Yeah. Yeah, they're certainly high in
18:01pens, but yeah, that would be a one-time
18:03transaction, right? Uh so, yeah,
18:05recurring businesses, uh you also don't
18:07need as big of a an audience, you know,
18:10if you're going to be working with
18:12someone for years.
18:14>> Um then
18:17you don't need as many uh customers, I
18:19guess.
18:20>> Yeah. So Tim, if a new podcaster came to
18:23you and just asked you what your best
18:26advice is to help them build a standout
18:29show, what would you tell them?
18:30>> Um, well, I I think you need to give it
18:33some good thought before just jumping
18:34in. Um, but you know, maybe start off
18:38choosing a niche, um, just like I did
18:41years ago. Um, know exactly who you're
18:44serving. See, uh, stay consistent. I
18:48think that's a really big one because a
18:50lot of people
18:51uh some things just take time to get
18:53traction. You know, I would find
18:56something from real world experience uh
18:58because it people will hear it in your
19:00voice when you're on the podcast. It'll
19:03come through and and then lastly, I
19:06would just make sure that you make every
19:07episode useful. Uh don't just try to
19:10fill the fill the space, but have
19:12something that's actually helping
19:14people.
19:15>> Yeah. Thank you very much. That's right.
19:17You you have to be providing real value.
19:20It's it's hard to get people's time and
19:22attention. A lot of times um podcasters
19:25think, well, I'm giving it away for
19:27free. They don't have to pay anything
19:28and then they go fill their show with
19:30fluff. But the reality is people are
19:33trading time, right? If it's a half an
19:35hour show, they're trading a half an
19:36hour of their life in exchange for
19:38listening to that show. Exactly. And so
19:40you've got to give them enough value to
19:42be worth trading half an hour of their
19:44life for. hopefully a lot more value
19:46than that. So, I I love your your point
19:49about focusing on value. So, you talked
19:52about losing your editor and and having
19:55to replace that position and and I'm
19:56sure that was a big challenge. I' I've
19:58had to do that before, but it doesn't
20:00sound like that was that big of a deal.
20:02Have you had any other bigger challenges
20:04that you faced and how did you solve
20:06those? Yeah, I would say losing the the
20:09editor was more just frustrating than it
20:12was uh challenging, you know. Um
20:16let's see. A bigger challenge than that,
20:19there have been times where
20:22just got really busy and I and I didn't
20:25have shows prepared. Um that's that's
20:28always challenging. Um you know, during
20:30COVID, that was a really interesting
20:32time with short-term rentals. you know,
20:33a lot of them just shut down uh
20:36completely. They weren't even, you know,
20:38weren't even legal.
20:40>> How did you survive with with the COVID
20:42shutdown?
20:44>> We we learned a lot, that's for sure. Um
20:47it co was interesting because at the
20:50same time, it prevented a lot of
20:52short-term rentals from being rented. It
20:56also opened up a lot of visibility to
20:58the industry because people that were in
21:00cities were driving out of the cities.
21:03>> Oh, they didn't have to stay in the
21:04cities anymore for their job. They could
21:06go wherever they wanted.
21:08>> Exactly. So, it actually added quite a
21:11lot to the industry. And fortunately,
21:14I was diversified. So, I had properties
21:17and places that were impacted less than
21:19others. Um, but it was it was a really
21:22interesting time. You know, it the
21:24city's shifted from having people
21:26traveling into the city to people within
21:29the city wanting to rent your property,
21:32your short-term rental. And most of the
21:33time,
21:35someone that lives local wanting to rent
21:37your short-term rental wants to rent it
21:38because they want to do something there
21:39that maybe they don't want to do at
21:41their their property, like have a party
21:43or something like that. And so, we
21:45learned we learned that lesson pretty
21:47quickly, uh, that renting to locals you
21:49got to be careful about. There's lots of
21:51good situations where you can, you know,
21:52but um we've we've added a lot of
21:55policies over the years and and co was
21:58certainly a good learning lesson.
22:00>> Yeah. You've managed more than 100,000
22:03guests and in your business that's it's
22:07that's critical because you're like you
22:09described you're dependent upon those
22:11reviews. What advice can you give us
22:14about operations and customer retention
22:17and managing great relationships so that
22:20you you can get the great reviews?
22:23>> Yep. Um it is it is crucial to the
22:26success of a property. If someone
22:29it it really comes down to expectations.
22:32So you need to make sure that your
22:34property is set up exactly the way
22:36someone's going to find it when they
22:38show up. Um, and and it should be even a
22:41little better than when they show up.
22:42So, if if they're seeing these beautiful
22:44pictures that you took 3 years ago, uh,
22:47and your lamp's broken and your bed's
22:49sagging and there's scuffs all over the
22:51wall and they show up, that's not
22:54meeting their expectations, you know?
22:56So, it's all about meeting expectations.
22:59Um, and that's pretty easy to do with
23:01photos. Uh, and making sure your
23:03property is clean. Having really quick
23:06communication goes a really long way. I
23:08mean, you can have issues at your
23:10property, but if someone's not there to
23:13support the guest or to resolve the
23:15problem, then that's when your reviews
23:18suffer and it really just becomes a
23:20downward spiral. Uh what happens
23:23actually is like if you get some bad
23:24reviews,
23:26people see that before they book your
23:28property and and maybe they're in
23:29between your property and another one
23:30and and they see a bad review, maybe
23:32there was some deferred maintenance.
23:35that's in their mind, you know, before
23:36they check in your property. And if they
23:38also don't have a perfect experience and
23:41they leave a bad review, then it's it's
23:43it's just really bad. Um, and the
23:45listing sites, they actually take your
23:47properties down these days. So, if
23:48you're on Airbnb and you haven't been
23:50doing a good job, they don't want you on
23:52there either. And so, um, it's really
23:55about expectations, making sure the
23:57property's clean, and having good good
23:59communication.
24:01>> Yeah, that's right. we're only happy or
24:04our happiness is directly proportional
24:06to how our expectations are being met.
24:09So there's two ways to solve that,
24:10right? You can you can adjust
24:13expectations, right? Lower them, right?
24:16By giving them correct information or
24:18you can provide amazing service and and
24:21raise the the reality. But you've got to
24:23exceed wherever the expectation is. Am I
24:26understanding that correctly?
24:27>> That's correct. Yeah. And it's it's
24:30funny. I I remember back in the day when
24:32uh I was adding properties a lot more
24:34quickly. I I would take pictures with my
24:36phone, you know, and everyone's like,
24:37"Oh, you got to have like the best
24:39photos ever." But the reality is I was
24:42setting lower expectations. And so these
24:44guests would show up to the property
24:45like, "Oh my gosh, this place is
24:46gorgeous." You know, why I was waiting
24:48to get professional photography. Um and
24:51so yeah, if if you're setting lower
24:53expectations and you're exceeding them,
24:55that's a recipe for for great reviews.
24:57Yeah, Tim, thanks for being with us
25:00today and sharing your great advice and
25:02and the value with with our audience. If
25:05our audience wants to learn more about
25:07you and your show and your business,
25:10what are the best ways for them to do
25:11that?
25:13>> Yeah. Um, my podcast is called
25:15Short-Term Rental Riches. So, we're on
25:17all the podcast outlets as well as
25:19YouTube. And our business is called
25:22Cororsley. Cze.
25:26We have tons of free resources on there
25:28if you're looking to get started in the
25:30industry or if you already have a
25:31property. We've got lots of quick
25:33actionable tips you can find there and
25:35we'd love to partner with you. So, if
25:37anyone out there has a property and
25:38they're looking for some help or they
25:40don't think it's optimized and you know
25:42quite the right way, I'd love to just
25:44jump on a call and and chat with you
25:46about it. You can do that from our
25:47website as well.
25:48>> Sounds great. Thank you so much, Tim.
25:51[snorts]
25:51>> Thank you. And here are my key takeaways
25:53from this episode. Number one, record
25:55short solo episodes on work you already
25:57know. Then batch several in one sitting.
26:00Number two, treat your show as the main
26:03way clients find you, not a side
26:04project. Number three, talk through your
26:08real day-to-day work so your track
26:10record does the selling. Number four,
26:13pick a niche with high value or
26:16recurring customers so a small audience
26:18still pays. Number five, make each
26:20episode genuinely useful. since people
26:23are trading their time to listen. Number
26:26six, publish consistently because
26:29traction and trust tend to build over
26:31months, not weeks. Number seven, set
26:34guest expectations you can beat, then
26:37exceed them for stronger reviews. Number
26:39eight, reply to guests fast so small
26:42problems get fixed before they become
26:44bad reviews. Number nine, check new
26:46supply against occupancy and rates on
26:49AirDNA before you buy into a market.
26:52And finally, number 10, get ownership
26:55and writing for anything you commission,
26:57like intro music, before you need it.
26:59Did you love this episode? Then please
27:01leave a rating on Apple Podcast or
27:03wherever you listen to it. And please
27:05leave a comment on YouTube. And you can
27:08grab your free copy of the 101
27:11podcasting secrets guide and get new
27:13episodes emailed to you by signing up
27:16for the newsletter at
27:17podcastingsecs.com.
27:19And you can get a free trial of Podup's
27:22all-in-one podcasting platform where you
27:24can become a published podcaster in two
27:27hours or less. Thanks for listening.
27:29Let's turn your passion into profit with
27:32a podcast.
27:35[music]

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