This Kid Found the Fastest Way to Make Money With AI Apps — Transcript

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1. 0:00225,000 in like nine months of building five  coding apps without any coding experience.
2. 0:05Yeah. Oh my gosh. Quarter million dollars. My  goal is to hit a million in revenue before uh
3. 0:1020 before age 20. Yeah. And when do you turn 20?  Turn 20 next April. We did like 8K in the first
4. 0:16week. And I was like, holy, this is insane. I  have a full business from software and I don't
5. 0:21know anything about coding. Yeah. My dream was 10K  a month at the time. I didn't think it was going
6. 0:25to go anywhere. I just did it cuz I wanted to see  if it was possible. I also have a friend Zach from
7. 0:29Cali. Oh, that's your friend? Yeah, he went to  my same high school. No way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
8. 0:33He just sold it, right? Yeah. He just sold it  to My Fitness Pal. So, I saw him and I was like,
9. 0:38"This guy's clearly on to something." Yeah.  A big inspiration. 100%. And from there,
10. 0:42that's when I was like, "Okay, I'm just going  to go like all in." These two latest apps were
11. 0:46able to scale both to 10K in 45 days. What  did you do in December again? So, December,
12. 0:51we did 30 and then January we did 40. So, we've  talked a very specific playbook here, but if
13. 0:56someone wanted to go out and start their own app  like you've done, what advice would you give them?
14. 1:05So, I have like three different apps that are  generating revenue. The one that generated most of
15. 1:11it, technically four, but the one that generated  almost like almost all of it up to this date has
16. 1:16been uh Wrestle AI. And then, dude, I didn't even  know you were a wrestler. This is awesome. Yeah.
17. 1:20Yeah. And then the last two months has been uh  I haven't really talked about about them like
18. 1:24publicly, but it's like uh they're like these  two other apps I've been like launching. Okay.
19. 1:28You can't just do one thing, huh? I can't either.  That's not a knock on you. So So no, the reason I
20. 1:33did it was wrestling wrestling season ended and  so I have a full-time job. So the way I got the
21. 1:40full-time job is I don't know how to code, right?  I build all these apps on Ror. On Roor? Yeah, Ror.
22. 1:45It's like an AI app builder. Like Replet. Exactly.  Okay. It's like Replet except it does like Swift.
23. 1:51Do you know what Swift is? For like mobile iPhone  apps. Yeah, it's like fully mobile. And I built my
24. 1:55first app through them. Well, I built my first app  called Fight AI, which was like I just built it
25. 2:00for myself and I like it was like a test app. Then  Wrestle was my first real thing. And from there,
26. 2:06I was like posting about them for free just cuz  I was like this is insane. Like I don't know. I
27. 2:09don't know what I'm doing and like I have a full  business. Yeah. Uh from software and I don't know
28. 2:14anything about coding. Yeah. and they reached out  to me and me and the founder we would like talk I
29. 2:20would tell them work yeah I would like tell  him like stuff I wanted stuff we would just
30. 2:24like talk about the platform and he invited  me to join the team for their growth team so
31. 2:28I joined like December it was like yeah it was  only like it was like two months into wrestle
32. 2:33AI less that like I then just fully pivoted into  like full-time on Ror and like when I when I do
33. 2:38something I wanted to go like I still had focus  on wrestle AI but thank god in those two months
34. 2:42I was actually able to like create some systems so  I didn't have to like work on that much. I mean,
35. 2:46it's a different game if you have a job. Like,  you have a responsibility to give them your 40
36. 2:50hours or whatever it is. Of course, especially  cuz I was like a founding team member. It wasn't
37. 2:53like it wasn't like I was joining like a rand it  was it wasn't a 9 to5 either. It was like whatever
38. 2:59like when I woke up to when I went to sleep. Now  I'm actually probably leaving. Really? Yeah. which
39. 3:05is cool cuz in the next like like the next stage  in life I'm hopefully I'll probably be leaving
40. 3:11and then trying to focus on one big business to  scale up to like hopefully like my goal is to hit
41. 3:17a million in revenue before uh 20. Before age 20.  Yeah. And when do you turn 20? Turn 20 next April.
42. 3:24The end of next April. What day? April 26th. Okay.  My son's the 30th. Oh, nice. Um Okay. So, let's
43. 3:32back up. I want to get to all that, but yeah.  Sorry. No, it's all good. You're in high school
44. 3:37in Long Island. Uh year ago, two years ago. Yeah.  Last year. Yeah. Okay. So, you were in high school
45. 3:43wrestling. Yeah. Varsity. Yeah. Were you good?  Yeah. I mean, I was a captain. Yeah. Okay. So,
46. 3:48you're in high school. You're wrestling. What else  are you doing through high school? I was starting
47. 3:51tons of different businesses. I've done like  everything. Let's list them off. Okay. Everything
48. 3:56you can remember. Probably had like four four like  YouTube channels like growing up. What types of
49. 4:02channels? So, I remember I was when I was really  young, I was into comics. I had like a comics
50. 4:06thing. I had like uh like a I think it was like we  were doing like pranks, me and my friends at one
51. 4:11point. We were doing like trying to do everything.  Not faceless channels. You were like No, I was
52. 4:15always in front of the camera. Okay. No, I had  one animation channel from this like and I can't
53. 4:20draw. It was like this like pre-made animation  thing. Okay. Where I would do like like stories
54. 4:24and stuff like that. Yeah. This was all when I  was pretty young though. And then from there I
55. 4:28tried ecom. So, I've done like two different e I  did like a laser pointer where I was just straight
56. 4:33drop shipping. Okay. And then I did a supplement  company. This the supplement company was when I
57. 4:38was a bit older. It was right before I started  the first app. So, I started the app and like
58. 4:42the first app and the supplement company around  the same time. Fight AI. Fight AI. Yeah. And they
59. 4:46both made around 2K total. Like in a month. Within  a month. Dang. Okay. And you started them around
60. 4:51the same time. Around the same like I started the  SM company first and I spent like tons of money on
61. 4:57like inventory and all that. And then I started  the fight AI was like fun. I didn't think it
62. 5:01was going to go anywhere. I just did it because I  wanted to see if it was possible. Did you use Ror
63. 5:05to build that? I Yeah, I used Ror to build it. And  sorry, what was the premise of fight AI? It was
64. 5:11like wrestle where it's like you upload a video of  your your match or your training and it gives you
65. 5:16a breakdown on how to get better. Okay. It gives  like breakdown uh strengths, weaknesses, how to
66. 5:21improve. For boxing specifically for for fight AI  was MMA. Okay. So, it was everything. So you take
67. 5:26a they would take a video of them doing MMA shadow  boxing let's say or like shadow sparring whatever
68. 5:32upload it and then your app would it's just a  rapper right not not no it's nothing demeaning
69. 5:37I have a rapper rappers are awesome and it's just  saying like do this your form is this try this and
70. 5:42what were you charging for it 10 bucks a month 60  for a year okay and how did you even promote that
71. 5:48so I just posted like like me and my friend who  was like who's like I'll help you I was like all
72. 5:54right sure and he has got like an I for content.  Yeah. We just posted about it. Like just post a
73. 5:59few dumb videos on just your friends. Your Yeah,  just on our Instagram. We didn't have like a ton
74. 6:02of followers. No, we had nothing. It was a new  Instagram account we made for Fight AI and we
75. 6:06posted about it. Okay. And then we saw that like  people were like we got like 40,000 views, 30,000.
76. 6:11Holy cow. On a brand new Instagram account. Yeah.  And like we're like, whoa. Like this is insane.
77. 6:15And uh then it started fizzling out. And then from  there we made like 500 bucks. It was like 500 MR.
78. 6:22And then I was like looking at it and I was like,  "Dude, it's like it's like a car." Like I was
79. 6:27like, "This is insane." Like it was like it blew  my mind. And the other supplement company I was
80. 6:31running paid ads that were like losing me money.  Sure. There was like this there's zero margin.
81. 6:36Yeah. Like what am I doing with this supplement?  Yeah. So that's what I immediately like throughout
82. 6:39this I was like screw it. Let's just focus on  this cuz I also have a friend Zach from Cali. Oh,
83. 6:45that's your friend? Yeah. He went to my same high  school. No way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He just sold it,
84. 6:49right? Yeah. He just sold it to My Fitness  Pal. Yeah. Okay. So, I saw him and I was like,
85. 6:54"This guy's clearly on to something." Yeah. He was  your like a big inspiration. 100%. 100%. Yeah. And
86. 7:00from there, that's when I was like, "Okay, I'm  just going to go like all in on apps." Yeah.
87. 7:04What was he like in high school? Like, would you  have seen him doing that? So, yeah. Like, we did
88. 7:09know that like he was a smart guy 100%. But he's  like I don't know. I feel like he's human. You
89. 7:14know what I mean? He's like a funny kid. He's like  one of your friends. Yeah. He's one of my friends.
90. 7:18Like clearly he's smart, but he's also just doing  dumb stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. Like you
91. 7:23didn't look at him like that kid's going to be a  billionaire. No, we kind of did. Okay. Like we did
92. 7:27have that feeling, but he was also like super like  chill, like down to earth. Sure. And like Well,
93. 7:33where did that feeling come from? Cuz he he  was also always starting stuff. Okay. So he
94. 7:38was always had a business. Yeah. And like that  was always the vibe. You know what I mean? Just
95. 7:43like high energy. Just start anything you can.  Yeah. That's how I am. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So,
96. 7:50what type of supplement brand was it? What were  you saying? It was the neutropics. Okay. Where
97. 7:54were you getting the ingredients for that? So,  we sourced them all through like like whatever
98. 7:59like different vendors and then we did like I  forgot what it was called. It was like contract
99. 8:04manufacturing or something. Yeah. Where we gave  the ingredients to the person. Uhhuh. And they
100. 8:08uh they as co-acking or something like that. I  forgot what it was. What was the form factor? Like
101. 8:12a powder or It was a pill. A pill. Yeah. Yeah.  He's selling pills. I know. No one died though,
102. 8:18right? No, no, no. No, we did it all right. Like  the we had like a cgmp or whatever. Okay. And
103. 8:24all our COAs and whatnot. What What gave you the  idea to do that? I just really loved like messing
104. 8:28around with supplements back then. Yeah. So like  I was drinking like a bunch of energy drinks every
105. 8:32day. I still kind of am, but less. How many? Not  like crazy, but like three, probably two to three.
106. 8:38What type? What are your drugs of choice? Ghost  Celsius. Okay. Well, this is those two. Yeah. This
107. 8:43is my number one. The kiwi guava. That's my go-to.  Have you had the uh you had grape? Yeah, it's
108. 8:48good. Really? The grape is my favorite. Really?  No, I like it. It's probably like number three
109. 8:51for me. Grape and peach. The fizzree one. Fizzree.  I can't I I can't even try that. Really? Like why
110. 8:57would you not put fizz in an energy drink? It's  like green tea. I don't know. It's like something
111. 9:02weird. I don't drink green tea. But have you had  the the sour ghost sour watermelon and sour green
112. 9:08apple? Those are too sour. I'm not like that crazy  about them. I love it. Really? I love that's like
113. 9:13my number two. Mine are uh the peach ghost. Okay.  Those are like too sweet for me. Yeah. Um I think
114. 9:21now it's starting to get to me. Like when I like  I don't know. I feel like I like peach flavor.
115. 9:25Past few months it's been getting like ghosts have  been getting like too extreme. Yeah. You're like
116. 9:29I'm almost 20. It's Yeah. I'm getting old. Okay.  All right. So supplement brand. So you just you
117. 9:36quit that. Yeah. We like you just abandoned it. We  just abandoned it. Yeah. Dude, all all the while
118. 9:41you're learning how to vibe code. You're learning  paid ads, which like vibe coding and paid ads is
119. 9:46literally all that's like the two best skills  a 19 to 99year-old could learn right now. Would
120. 9:52you disagree? No, I I think content and like how  to make good viralable content. Yeah. Yeah. No,
121. 9:59I fully agree. The ability to vibe code and like  and then just being creative. That's like it,
122. 10:04dude. And like it's not even accurate to say the  ability to vibe code cuz really what you're saying
123. 10:09Anyone can do it. The ability to speak English or  German or what the ability to use a language you
124. 10:14can vibe code. Yeah. The idea is you just need to  conceptualize something like you just need to be
125. 10:18able to think of something and like make it you  like I like things that are unique. Yeah. A lot
126. 10:23of people with vibe coding like always recommend  like copying like other successful apps. Yeah.
127. 10:27When it's like then you have to compete with those  successful apps and they've been doing it much
128. 10:31longer than you. But if you go into the like for  example the wrestling space, I had no competition.
129. 10:36So, so I didn't need a perfect product. I  didn't need it like whatever. I just needed
130. 10:40people. Okay. But Pam is smaller. Yeah. Hey, if  you're liking this video, please hit subscribe.
131. 10:46You probably think you're subscribed cuz YouTube  shows you my videos, but you haven't done it yet.
132. 10:49I just know it. So, please check. Thank you.  Okay. So, Fight AI, what month and year is this
133. 10:54when you did the Fight AI and the supplement?  Ex. So, it's actually exactly a year today,
134. 10:58which is sick. You just graduated. So, yeah. So, f  your first summer. Yeah. Free. First first summer,
135. 11:05college is coming. You're still in New York.  Yeah. I'm freaking out because you got all
136. 11:09this time now. Yeah. So, you're just like And I  was stressed. 600 milligrams of caffeine a day.
137. 11:15Vibe code supplements. You're Why were you  stressed? Cuz college was starting and I was
138. 11:19always telling myself like I was always like  full of myself. I was always telling myself I
139. 11:22was going to figure out something before college.  Yeah. And college came and now I'm like starting
140. 11:26my first semester in like late August. What was  damn I I got no motion. Yeah. What was college?
141. 11:32Where was that supposed to be? Uh St. John's. St.  John's. They have a basketball team, right? Yeah,
142. 11:37they do. Pretty okay. And that's in New York.  Yeah, it's in New York. Long Island. Uh it's
143. 11:41in Jamaica. Okay. Queens. Not not a It's an okay  school. I don't want to like hit on everyone. The
144. 11:47end of the subway, right? But uh yeah, it's like  I was like, yo, not I was not happy to be gone.
145. 11:53Did you apply to other schools? I applied to a  few other schools. They gave me the most money
146. 11:58and I never put that much of an effort on school,  which I regret. Like you I think everyone should
147. 12:03regret it. I think everyone should like I don't  think you should just be like like have an ego.
148. 12:07You should put effort towards something. Yeah.  So I was like, "All right, they're giving me the
149. 12:11most money. I'm just going there." Okay. What were  your What was your GPA in high school? I have no
150. 12:14idea. I think it was like it was like I had like  a 85 average probably. The same same as me. I was
151. 12:19like 3.3 something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But most  of that was just from cheating on my assignments
152. 12:25for my friends. I mean and I I could have done  it. Like I had the brain power but I was just
153. 12:30lazy. here was just procrastinating. Yeah. Okay.  What all schools did you get into or applied to?
154. 12:35I applied to Penn State and got rejected and  that's where most of my friends went. Okay.
155. 12:39It's good wrestling school. Yeah. And I'm actually  so happy I got rejected though. Hindsight. Yeah.
156. 12:45I'm sure because like that's where all my friends  from my hometown went. Yeah. And I'm not like a
157. 12:50big partyier. I like heavily like dissociate when  I go out sometimes. Yeah. And if I was constantly
158. 12:55in that environment and I had nothing going for  me, I would have I would have like I would have
159. 13:00lost it. You'd be in the you'd be in the frat  world. You wouldn't be building stuff. Yeah.
160. 13:05I would have had a lot of fun. You're having fun  doing this, too, right? Yeah. So, it's like fun is
161. 13:09is subjective. All right. So, it was June or July  2025 when you were building these? July 2nd, we
162. 13:15released the first app, Fight AI. Fight AI. Yeah.  Okay. And your supplement brand was a couple weeks
163. 13:20old at this point or it it was like over probably  two months old. Okay. Okay. So, you released FAI,
164. 13:26you create a brand new Instagram account. So,  people started going to the app store and just
165. 13:30searching Fight AI. Yeah. And they found it. I  bet your churn was crazy high. So, we did like
166. 13:371,800 in the first month. We haven't marketed it  since. And it didn't mostly So, around the first
167. 13:43500 came from us posting. The rest came from us  sponsoring meme pages. Oh yeah. Yeah. Still works.
168. 13:50Yeah. It actually because we found one guy with  a cultic following. So like in the space? Yeah.
169. 13:55This guy Tony has died. Absolute killer. Okay. How  many followers does he have? He now has 100,000. I
170. 14:01don't remember when we first started working with  him probably 50. Okay. But anytime he would post
171. 14:05a sponsorship his audience would get so angry at  him like he had just for like selling out. He had
172. 14:11this weird cultic following. So they would all  be like, "We're going to kill Tony Ste." They're
173. 14:17starting like like death chants in the cult.  That's just like the culture of his following
174. 14:21because he he made like he has like he posts  weird memes. So it formed this like sick culture,
175. 14:26but it shot our engagement up. So we would post  like the first post we did with him. In my mind,
176. 14:32I was trying to make a post that didn't look like  an ad. And I was still new at this. So it looked
177. 14:36extremely like an ad. It was an it was like a  kickboxer and it was this kickboxer cuz we were
178. 14:41working with this other kickboxer. This kickboxer  uses AI to train for his next fight. Right. And it
179. 14:46was like a Twitter headline on top of it. And then  everyone caught that it was an ad instantly. Yeah.
180. 14:50Right. And everyone's commented, but their hate  made it perform better as an ad. Exactly. Like
181. 14:56shot it up. So that's where the other revenue  came. We made 1,800 in the first month. From
182. 15:01there, we tried some other stuff, but it didn't  really work. We stopped like my like whatever. It
183. 15:06was like it just wasn't like continuing to scale.  Mhm. So, we stopped focusing on it and then that's
184. 15:12when I met my partner for Wrestle AI. Like, he  was a wrestling influencer. So, from there, we
185. 15:18stopped working on Wrestle AI entirely. We stopped  working on Fight AI entirely. Still to this day,
186. 15:22Fight AI does over 1K a month just by itself. Just  by itself. Do you know what the churn is? Cuz like
187. 15:28that could mean you churn everyone every month and  you replace them every month or it could mean no
188. 15:33one new is joining and your turn is zero, right?  So, I'm guessing it's probably around like 30ish%.
189. 15:39Okay. Per month. Month one. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And  then you like keep retaining them forward. Yeah.
190. 15:44Okay. Yeah. We do also have like organically  people coming. I I have no idea how it's still
191. 15:48making this mo like money. Yeah. It's just like  you're not supporting it or we haven't touched it.
192. 15:53Like literally, we haven't What model do you use  on the back end for that? GPT. Which one? I think
193. 15:59like four or something. Is that a good one for  like video for analyzing video? Yeah. Yeah. And it
194. 16:04was it was like the latest one that when when like  we were making it. Yeah. Okay. Where did you find
195. 16:09your wrestling influencer partner? So my first  like thing whenever I made any money was like
196. 16:14I hired a VA. Mhm. Which I recommend everyone do.  VA. Where do you find them? I source them through
197. 16:19e either Fiverr or Upwork. Okay. You just hop on a  call with them and you just like I just show them
198. 16:23what I do which is literally like I cater my for  you page. So it's literally like just scroll on my
199. 16:27for you page and outreach to everyone who has over  25,000 views on average. Hold on. outreach every
200. 16:34Okay. So, go to your for you page. Anyone that  averages 25,000 views on a video in your niche.
201. 16:39Yeah. DM them and say and and then I gave them  like a DM script. So, it's paid promo for paid
202. 16:45promo for the app. Sentence about what the app  does. Love the content. Would love to work with
203. 16:49you. What are you paying back then? We were paying  like $2 CPM like for So, we really did this for
204. 16:56Wrestleia. Um that's where like influencers  blew up Wrestleia. It was only influencers.
205. 17:01We never did paid and we were paying basically a  $2 CPM. We've increased it for some people since
206. 17:06then cuz they're proven. Yeah. Cuz they've been  like been killers. Yeah. This one guy we actually
207. 17:11pay over a $5 CPM and it converts that well. It  converts decent and then his videos as paid ads
208. 17:19are like insane. So taking him organic. Yeah.  He was the first one he was the first one that
209. 17:25we ever did paid ads on. So he he he did a promo  video for your app. It did well. Then you pushed
210. 17:30paid behind it and did even better. Yeah. Yeah.  Okay. We never pushed crazy paid for Russell, but
211. 17:35he was like the only because we were optimizing  for installs. We didn't even know how to optimize
212. 17:39for trials back then. It was so bad. I was I was  learning as I went. But uh so so that's kind of
213. 17:46the playbook is optimize for installs. No, I used  to say always optimize for purchase. I just didn't
214. 17:51know how to do it. I didn't know how to code. So  I was looking at this like black box and I was
215. 17:55like I don't like I had like a developer from  Pakistan this guy Usama who also helped me out
216. 18:03absolute goat. Greatest guy ever. I don't think  he knew how to set up the optimized for purchases
217. 18:08either or he did or he did and maybe I didn't  tell him right. So yeah it was literally just
218. 18:14we only knew who was downloading the app. So since  since I didn't know how to fix that and I was like
219. 18:20I started a job too. So I was like, I don't have  time to like figure this out, whatever. I now I
220. 18:25figured it out. Now I understand. It's actually  super simple enough being an idiot. But so we're
221. 18:28just optimizing for installs. But if you want like  like to make your ads 10 times more profitable,
222. 18:33you optimize for purchases. Okay. All right. So  let's back up. So you were accepted to St. John's.
223. 18:38You're going to start in August. You don't want  to start in August. You're stressed out because
224. 18:42you put this artificial pressure on yourself to  be a billionaire before you have to start college,
225. 18:47right? Whatever. Okay. Okay. So then you start  fight AI in early July. Do you ever start college?
226. 18:53What happens after that? Yeah. Yeah, I started  college. So I So Fight AI started I my VA reached
227. 18:59out to was reaching out to a bunch of people in  the niche. We talked to a few different people.
228. 19:03Then I see this guy, one of the people that  I reached out to is this guy Kaden Henshaw.
229. 19:07Okay. Right. Kaden Henshaw is one of the biggest  wrestling creators. Right. He was my personal
230. 19:14favorite wrestling creator like of all time.  Did you wrestle in college? Yeah. For who? Uh
231. 19:19Parkside. Parkside. Yeah. Is that D2? Wisconsin.  Yeah, it's D2. Okay. So, that just happened to
232. 19:25be someone that the VA reached out to randomly.  So, no, actually, no, no, no, not even them. I'm
233. 19:30sorry. I was messing up my own story. He reached  out to someone that knew him. Okay. Right. So,
234. 19:35they it was a loose connection. And when I asked  the guy, I said, "Hey, I see that you're mutual
235. 19:39with Kaden Henshaw." Right. He goes, "I met him  once and like we exchanged." Yeah. And I go,
236. 19:44"I'll look." So, he didn't know him. Not not  crazy. Well, yeah. And I go, I'll like pay you
237. 19:49whatever if you just send this DM, right? He sent  the DM, right? He said like send the DM, which is
238. 19:55basically like, I want to rebuild Fight AI but for  just wrestling because we had a ton of comments.
239. 19:59Is this like for wrestling? People didn't trust  it because we were everything, right? Yeah. So,
240. 20:04does this dude just wrestling? He sent the DM  and I sent this guy like 17 emails and four DMs
241. 20:10on everything. So, you're going all in on Kaden  Henshaw. I was going all in on everyone. Yeah. So
242. 20:16they send the DM. Nothing really comes from it.  No, they send the DM and he goes, "I was meaning
243. 20:21to answer this guy's email." Oh, wow. And then  he answers my like oh like a few days go by. I
244. 20:27don't see I don't see him respond to my email. I'm  like, "Hey, I need you to follow up." He was like,
245. 20:30"All right, sure." Follows up. Kaden finally gets  back to my email. And now I'm like sitting there.
246. 20:35I'm shaking, right? Because I'm like, "This is  like the first this is the closest thing I've
247. 20:39gotten to like somewhat of like a big win." My  like my dream was 10K a month at the time. Yeah.
248. 20:44So, I sent him my phone number because like emails  like are the worst. Yeah. So, I send him my phone
249. 20:50like the first email I send him my phone number  and I'm like, hey, my email gets like messed up.
250. 20:55Can you just text me? And I'm like, ah, he's not  going to text me. He's too like whatever. He's
251. 20:58too big time. And then uh I get a text. Hey,  it's Kaden. And now I'm like freaking out like
252. 21:05hop on the call. I show him by I go, look, this  is what my conversion rates are, right? Because
253. 21:11we had like a decent onboarding. This is what my  conversion rates are. This is uh like what the app
254. 21:15does. I want to rebuild it for just wrestling with  your audience plus like the app the funnels the
255. 21:21funnel will be good. Everything will be solid. Um  I want to do I want to do this with you. We'll be
256. 21:25partners like 50/50. And people always like like  rag on me like oh like 50/50. And I'm like dude it
257. 21:31doesn't exist with I was nothing without this guy  before this guy. Like I literally knew zero. Yeah.
258. 21:37This guy gave me like a business to like learn  with and like test with. So, so what'd he say? So,
259. 21:43he goes, "Dude, this looks awesome. Like, I don't  know if I'm ready to like commit or whatever." He
260. 21:46goes, "I don't know how this looks, but like  I'm very interested." And I go, "Hey," I go,
261. 21:50"Let's not do any commitments." I go, "Let me just  build out the app. I'll show it to you next week."
262. 21:54Like, I'll show you like something next week.  Let's hop on another call and then from there,
263. 21:58we'll like decide where to go. Yeah. So, I spent  the next week prompting straight. Like literally
264. 22:03didn't sleep. It was just prompting the whole  like the whole time because I was trying to make
265. 22:06it perfect. Back then, the model it was like Sonic  3.5. It was like terrible. Yeah. You had to like
266. 22:11it was evil. Yeah. Yeah. I built out like this MVP  in a week. I showed it to him. He's like, "Well,
267. 22:17this is insane." I go, "Now imagine like what's  what it's going to look like in a month." And
268. 22:21then he goes, "Yeah, I'm in." So, we we did it.  Um then we had like some older guy like like we
269. 22:27had a team of like these older people who were  trying to do something similar on web and they
270. 22:31threatened to sue us, but they didn't sue us.  They were just a competitor. Yeah, they were a
271. 22:36competitor who were trying to like stiff arm us  like whatever. Did they have any justification?
272. 22:40They had nothing. Yeah. Uh and their platform  sucked and they kept they had a USA wrestling
273. 22:44partnership. Oh, shoot. And they were bragging  about it on call. So, I had a college class that
274. 22:50I missed because I was on call with them for two  hours and they were sitting there saying, "Oh,
275. 22:54you're young. You're this. You're that. Like, we  have a partnership with USA Wrestling." He goes,
276. 22:58"I know you think you're going to like do well,  but like you're at an unfair advantage." And I'm
277. 23:03sitting there and now I'm like I' I've been on  this call for two hours. They're not telling me
278. 23:07any terms of their deals, though. Yeah. So, they  have a partnership. They could They could be their
279. 23:11janitors. That's their partnership, right? I  have a partnership with Google, aka I have a
280. 23:16Gmail email app. Exactly. Like, we don't know  what that means. So, they're like they they're
281. 23:20trying to get me to sign an NDA. I'm afraid if I  sign an NDA that and and then I release the app,
282. 23:26they're going to say I stole their stuff, right?  So, I go, I'm not signing anything. And I go,
283. 23:31"Look, I appreciate the fact that you guys think  that you're passionate about your product and you
284. 23:34think you have the unfair advant and their  product sucked and you think you have the
285. 23:37unfair advantage." I go, "But to be honest," and  I I like I look at Kaden, I go, "Okay, like uh I
286. 23:43think Kaden's one of the most influential people  in the space. I think with just him, we could like
287. 23:47take over the space." Yeah. And was on this call,  too. Yeah. Yeah. And I go and I fully believe in
288. 23:51our product. And then I call Kaden afterwards. I  go, "Look, I don't want to work with these guys.
289. 23:55They're being weird." So they were kind of talking  like, "Let's partner up." Maybe they're trying
290. 23:58because they were trying to get a Kaden. They were  mad that I got there first. Yeah. And I called
291. 24:02Ken. I'm like, "Look, like I don't want to I don't  want to work with these guys." And he goes, "Yeah,
292. 24:06I fully agree. I don't think they like represent  our like best interests." And that's when I
293. 24:10realized I'm like, "Holy crap, I'm partnered with  this guy." Yeah. Yeah. And then we released and
294. 24:14in the first week we did uh we did like 8K in the  first week and I was like, "Holy." And then like
295. 24:21that guy got like obliterated. He deconnected  the the website. Really? He owned wrestle.com.
296. 24:27Yeah. He still does he still own it? I pulled the  plug on it. So if you go it's like 404 not found,
297. 24:31but he still owns the domain. Still does own the  domain. Okay. We have wrestle.app, but our as like
298. 24:36our SEO is all above his. What is your domain?  Wrestlei.app.app. Okay. So they just they never
299. 24:42even got off the ground. So now you need to get  a partnership with USA Wrestling. Yeah, but USA
300. 24:46Wrestling doesn't even like represent their  athletes that well from what I've heard. So I
301. 24:50don't even know how like they're just legitimate,  right? Whether they do or don't like they're a big
302. 24:54name. Um All right. So what month does all this  go down? You start college in August. This was
303. 24:59all September. So, end of September, September  26, we released the app. Okay. And I was working
304. 25:05on it from like all through August and all  through like September, like non-stop. Yeah. So,
305. 25:11I released Wrestle Wrestle Eye and I released  another app around two weeks later that I put
306. 25:16like no effort in. What app was that? This it  was this like it was like it was called Green.
307. 25:21This app I hate I hate I had another partner. So,  another guy hit me up uh like this influencer I
308. 25:27hit up and like they finally got back to me around  once I released Wrestle AI. I was like, "Okay,
309. 25:32maybe the strategy just partner with influencers  and this guy had like a million followers." So,
310. 25:38I'm like, "All right, this guy's like in what  space?" In like this like reaction space. So,
311. 25:42it was like joke. It was like SC like he like he'd  like react to videos and you'd make like a funny
312. 25:47commentary on it. Super super low value audience  then. I didn't know what that meant. Yeah. At the
313. 25:52time. So, I'm sitting there, we're making this  app, which it was going to be like, you know,
314. 25:56have you ever heard of RZGPT? Yes. It was going  to be like that. It was like a clone of that. And
315. 26:01this is also why I pushed back against clones.  So, he had a super like low intent audience and
316. 26:05we were making like a slop app to be honest.  Um, and we had no p like wrestle had super I
317. 26:10was like super passionate about building because  like I wrestled so I wanted to build a tool that I
318. 26:16really genuinely liked. And it's a it's a it's an  enthused community. Like wrestlers are different.
319. 26:20Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And I got to work  with people I love. Yeah. So, you launched this
320. 26:25couple weeks after. How does that launch go? Yeah.  So, they both And this is like I I always try
321. 26:29bringing this up because I feel like it's so such  an important lesson for like whoever is trying to
322. 26:32like build apps and stuff like that. Both apps got  a million views. So, like everyone like obsesses
323. 26:37over distribution. Both apps got a million views  in its first month. When you say a million views,
324. 26:41like the app itself in the app store got a million  views. No. Like total social media views. Like
325. 26:46impressions across platforms or like a video that  you're using to promote the app. Yeah. Tik Tok and
326. 26:51Instagram, let's say, both got a over a million  views in the first month. Okay. Right. Wrestle AI
327. 26:56the first month did 17K. Green did $35. Yeah. So,  like every every time someone's like distribution,
328. 27:07distribution, distribution, you need to make  sure the the right people and what you're
329. 27:12distributing is actually valuable. Like if you're  distributing something that no one cares about,
330. 27:17no one's going to buy it no matter what. Yeah.  Um, that blows my mind. That's what I always try
331. 27:22saying because like I some people come to me with  these ideas and like Yeah. You have to like make
332. 27:26sure it's like a good idea and you're passionate  about it. Don't try making another looks maxing
333. 27:30app. There's been a million Looks maxing apps.  Right. Well, like I've had videos that, let's say,
334. 27:35they get a million views and they're so high value  and high quality that I'll get 40,000 followers.
335. 27:42Yeah. From that one video. I'll have other videos  that get a million views where I'm kind of like
336. 27:46trolling and I'm not as serious and I'll get  like 40 followers. Like 40,000 and 40 from the
337. 27:52same amount of views. It's the same thing. It's  like is it high value enough? Is it the right
338. 27:56audience? Yeah. It makes all the difference.  Yeah. And like creative strategy, too. So,
339. 28:01it's like like a dollar CPM could be expensive  and a $10 CPM could be cheap if you have the right
340. 28:06creative strategy. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, after  that $35 launch, you're just like, "No." I was
341. 28:12so happy because I was really afraid that this was  gonna make way more than wrestle. Yeah. I was like
342. 28:17sitt I was afraid. I'm like I'm gonna be I'm gonna  be known as the Ridge GPT. No, not even that. I
343. 28:22just didn't want to be known as like the Ridge GBT  guy, right? I was like I'm going to be known as
344. 28:26the guy who makes like like this slop, right? And  then I made no money. So I was like, "All right,
345. 28:30we're done." Like we just I just instantly cut it.  I was like, "Let's I'm only focusing on WrestleI."
346. 28:34Because I was I was also only mainly focusing on  Wrestling. I was working on this like very little.
347. 28:38Yeah. Then on Wrestle I month one, the last week  of month one, we did around like 2K in revenue.
348. 28:44Okay. Which is was lower than all the others. 10K  first week it was like 8K first week. Okay. 8K,
349. 28:50six, four, two, something like that. So it's like  it's going down a little bit. It had a huge up
350. 28:55and then it's starting to fizzle. Okay. And then  from there, that's when I sat there and was like,
351. 29:00"All right." And then my my part like Kaden also  started getting a bit busy. He was doing RAF,
352. 29:05right? Which is like completely fair. It's like  a like a wrestling organization. Okay. It's like,
353. 29:10you know, it's like UFC for wrestling. Okay. It's  getting big now, too. It's sick. I haven't heard
354. 29:14of that. Have you you know Armen Zukian? No.  The UFC fighter? No. Oh, you know Kamzot? No.
355. 29:21No. Follow UFC. So, like a bunch of UFC  fighters are going on there now. H. So,
356. 29:25he kind of lost focus a little bit. Yeah. So, he's  he's like pursuing other ventures as well. Um,
357. 29:30which like totally fair. I want you to do  something right now. Open your bank statement
358. 29:33and add up every single software subscription  that you're paying for. Your CRM, your email
359. 29:38marketing tool, text message platform, calendar  booking app, funnel builder, review management,
360. 29:43even a separate form builder or automation tool.  I've talked to business owners paying $500 to
361. 29:48$3,000 a month across eight or 10 different tools  and half of them don't even talk to each other.
362. 29:53So then they go pay for Zapier on top of that just  to make things connect. Highle replaces all of it.
363. 29:59CRM, email, SMS, funnels, websites, calendars,  automations, reputation management, invoicing,
364. 30:04one login, one dashboard, one bill starting at 97  bucks a month. A guy in my community was paying
365. 30:093.47 just for ClickFunnels, 99 for Mailchimp, 25  for Kellan, 79 for a review tool, and 49 bucks for
366. 30:17Zapier just to glue it all together. That's 600 a  month if you're not counting. He moved everything
367. 30:22to high level and cut his software cost by  over 80%. But the best part isn't even the
368. 30:26savings. It's that everything just works together  natively. A lead fills out a form on your funnel
369. 30:31that creates a contact in your CRM which triggers  a text and email sequence, books an appointment on
370. 30:36your calendar, and then asks for a review when  the job's done. One workflow, zero duct tape,
371. 30:40and then you can white label the whole platform  to resell it to other businesses as your own
372. 30:44software. Charge them 2 to 500 bucks a month.  Check out gohighlevel.com/tkopod. They'll give
373. 30:50you a 30-day free trial to see what I mean. How  many views did like that first launch video get? I
374. 30:55think like 10 and something thousand and he posted  it to his account. Yeah. Okay. And did you push
375. 31:00paid behind that at all? No, we pushed no paid and  like up only until like January we started pushing
376. 31:06paid. Okay. And what did you charge for this app  for rest? Same same price 10 a month 60 a year.
377. 31:11Okay. Um we recently added abandoned yearly. So  like abandoned yearly. Uh like if you click like X
378. 31:17it'll give you like a discount offer. Okay. Okay.  What do most people choose between 10 bucks and
379. 31:2260? mostly 60 because you really we add the trial  on 60. So it's like look if you want the trial
380. 31:28you have to do like you have to commit to the year  and is that the play you think for apps like this
381. 31:32sometimes it's different for everyone right so  like my friend he just launched a new app and he's
382. 31:38been only doing weeklies like his goal is to just  maximize the total amount of recurring revenue
383. 31:44and that's working which I would always try to  frontload revenue this way I had more for your
384. 31:49growth yeah I had more money to then grow you know  what I mean so I was never bottlenecked by cash if
385. 31:55you're not super growth aggressive ressive. I  would say push monthlies instead. Yeah. Um cuz
386. 31:59your LTV will probably be higher on monthlies.  Okay. All right. So 17K, second month he's start
387. 32:05doing other stuff. What do you do? So that's  when I'm sitting there and I'm like, "All right,
388. 32:09but like like I like we got to now figure out like  what to do." So like the most obvious was like,
389. 32:14"All right, let's just get more people in the  wrestling space posting about Wrestle Ai." So
390. 32:18from there I was like, "Hey, whoever you have,  like send them to me, right?" And then I would
391. 32:23send DMs off of our brand account, paid promo for  WrestleI. And another thing I didn't realize is
392. 32:28because wrestling is a small niche and we had  Kaden posting about it, our response rate was
393. 32:32insane, right? After Kuz because he's he puts a  like an legitimacy on. Exactly. Yeah. So So now
394. 32:40you're reaching out to influencers that have  already heard of you. Exactly. Not just that,
395. 32:44but from a trusted source. Yeah. So it was great.  Yeah. And the first person I signed was this kid,
396. 32:50Cory Zeter. another absolute killer. Shout out to  that kid. Okay. Our first deal, me and uh Corey,
397. 32:55now he's made thousands of dollars. He's doing  well. But my first deal between me and him was it
398. 33:02was six videos for 400 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. It was  six videos for 400 bucks. 70 bucks a post. Okay.
399. 33:07Right. He was like he was pretty new as well.  Um and Cali also sponsored him, right? What type
400. 33:14of influencer is he? Wrestling influencer and he  posts like day in the life content. Okay. Right.
401. 33:20Okay. So he he makes this first video, right?  So the first video costed us $70, right? Drops
402. 33:26the first video. I watch the video. He doesn't  say wrestlei up until like 30 to 40 seconds in.
403. 33:32And he does a cali sponsorship before he does  sponsorship. Dude, right? And I'm looking at,
404. 33:38oh my god, whatever. Like I'll tell him next time.  Like he can't do that this and that. The video
405. 33:42crushed 500k views and we made over 5k off of it  because no one cared about the Cali sponsorship.
406. 33:48All they saw was, "What do you mean this app  can analyze my wrestling?" But for all we know,
407. 33:54it did well for Cali, too. Yeah, maybe it  probably did well for Cali. Probably not the same,
408. 33:58though. You could like we were able to tell by  the comments. Like, that's what I was like looking
409. 34:02at. So, everyone was going insane. Like, what what  the hell? This app does this and that. So, now I'm
410. 34:07like, I don't care if there's a Cali sponsorship  or not. Like, I'm I'm riding high. I'm like,
411. 34:11this is insane. I just paid 40 bucks to get 5,000.  Yeah. Yeah. Like, the the return was insane. and
412. 34:16the bigger return. This is why I say even on your  first it's okay to be unprofitable on your first
413. 34:21few influencers because they're going to start  spreading your word to other influencers. So we
414. 34:26also because of him a ton of different people like  really respected Cory's content, right? And we got
415. 34:32even more brand trust. Mhm. And then from there  we started just sponsoring a bunch of different
416. 34:38creators. Probably like a total of 10 maybe 10 20.  Okay. Around there. Then we cut down to like six,
417. 34:45seven. Okay. Right. Um like in towards like  the end six or seven trusted great people like
418. 34:52absolutely that you just use over and over. Yeah.  Okay. And yeah and from there that that's that
419. 34:56was that drove most of all of our growth. How did  his other what six videos do? They all did great.
420. 35:02Okay. So like we like as well. No, no, not as  well. Okay. That first video was a banger. But he
421. 35:08got like 500k views. Yeah. But his RPM was great.  Yeah. which made it worth it. So 17,000 the first
422. 35:15month. What did months two, three, four plus look  like? So yeah, so Apple was holding all of it. So
423. 35:20they Apple was holding 17K that we were going  to get paid out in December. Mhm. So all I had
424. 35:25was like a,000 bucks in my bank account that I had  to sustain growth with in October. Yeah. I had to
425. 35:29sustain growth with and uh like to make sure that  like we're not only relying on Kaden and like I
426. 35:35just got super scrabby with this thousand bucks.  Constraints equal creativity. Yeah. And uh and
427. 35:41then we were able to do we were able to do like  I think it was either like it was like 19 like a
428. 35:45little bit 19 and a little bit the second month.  So it wasn't crazy growth. Thousand. Yeah. Yeah.
429. 35:50Still. Yeah. We still were able to grow. You're  trending downwards at the end of the first turn
430. 35:54it around. We were able to turn it around. Get  to like 19. Yeah. And how did you do that? More
431. 35:58caden videos, more other influencers. Other like  other influencers and Kaden. So that's your only
432. 36:02growth playbook for the first few months. Yeah. It  was just organic influencer. Were you paying flat
433. 36:07fee per video like you did with um some flat some  CPM? And what CPM did you start with? Two two and
434. 36:142.5. Okay. Now, when is that paid out though? Cuz  a video can keep going for a while, right? Yeah.
435. 36:20That that's one like one thing that we did really  well. Yeah. We would pay him out. We'd be like,
436. 36:25let's keep it simple. Like we'll pay you a week  after the video. But then it keeps going. So
437. 36:28our C our effective CBM is sub a dollar. So,  an average deal would be like a video that
438. 36:34gets 100,000 views, a week later you pay him 200  bucks. Yeah. But then it might get over the next
439. 36:39two months another 100,000. Exactly. Dropping your  CPM in half. Exactly. Are these pretty evergreen
440. 36:45videos? Like like are they likely to keep going  for a while? Cuz some I post some shorts and
441. 36:49like they're dead in a week. Yeah. Others and  they go for months. Some some would keep going,
442. 36:54others would die out. like we we wouldn't put  too much like thought into like making sure that
443. 36:59all of the videos were evergreen. Yeah. Um were  you ever concerned about people like paying for
444. 37:04fake views to boost their Yeah. But the idea was  we'd figure that out like so you could tell by
445. 37:10like comment ratio. If somebody has like a bunch  of emojis in a com in the comment sections like
446. 37:14there's like you know and like we were working  with wrestlers it was like trusted. Yeah. They're
447. 37:19not like marketers like they probably don't  really know that stuff. Yeah. And if we saw
448. 37:23that like it wasn't driving enga like if we saw  the video wasn't really driving sales we would
449. 37:27have just cut the influencer. But how were you  able to always attribute it to sales if you've
450. 37:30got multiple videos going at once? A lot of it  was just intuition. Okay. Being able to like just
451. 37:36look at your charts and like kind of understand  like just keeping track of all the views and all
452. 37:41the results. What tools do you use to keep track  of all those? So I just built out like this sick
453. 37:46internal tool. Your own? Yeah. It tracks I run  my entire business on it. Really? my my metads,
454. 37:53my creators, like literally dashboard contracts  are sent through it. That's cool. Super easy. And
455. 37:58then I have Claude like with Post Hog as well.  Post Hog. Yeah. And then like it's all all the
456. 38:03data sources are in one. So I have like a Claude  that I could literally talk to like an MCP. Yeah.
457. 38:07I'll be like like uh like Claude trained on all  these like data sources and then I'll be like,
458. 38:12"Hey, what are like the numbers for today?  What's my P&L? Like what's this and that?"
459. 38:16It's sick. Okay. So, you start doing CPM deals,  $2 to everyone. Second month is 19K, but you still
460. 38:24don't have any money. Yes. Have no cash. 60-day  runway. Yeah. So, that was So, the second month
461. 38:29was November. Third month's December. Okay. Now,  the first chunk just hit the account. Okay. So,
462. 38:34now I'm like, okay, now it's time to like go  crazy. Sorry. September was your first month.
463. 38:39End of se September 26. So, basically October.  Okay. And then so 17K October, 19K November,
464. 38:46December the money hits. What do you do with the  money and what are your sales in December? Yeah.
465. 38:50So the money hits, we just 10x what we're doing.  Get more influencers. Now we got up to like around
466. 38:5520 influencers in December. Okay. Right. 20-ish.  20 may be overkill. Um because there's just not
467. 39:01the biggest bottleneck for us was finding like we  started running out. Yeah. We started running out
468. 39:05of influencers. Yeah. That's my next question  was like how many are there? That that was
469. 39:09like our big thing. Couple hundred. Yeah. Are you  reaching out to athletes, too? Like I'm gonna I'm
470. 39:14I'm thinking like David Taylor. Uh like Bo Nickel.  Yeah. D1. We have We have a video from Bo. Really?
471. 39:22Yeah. We have a video from Bo. This guy we I  wanted I really wanted to work with Daniel Zabida.
472. 39:26Zabita. We were in talks and then like I think  he just got busy like Okay. Stopped answering.
473. 39:31I followed up a few times but we we never closed  the deal. Jax Forest also we were going to get
474. 39:36deals with all these guys. Yeah. I don't know  if he ever made the video for us because there's
475. 39:40hundreds of current D1 wrestlers. Yeah. There's  thousands of like, you know, recent D1 wrestlers
476. 39:46and then there's probably hundreds of like  wrestling influencers that weren't D1 wrestlers,
477. 39:50right? That were good at content. Yeah. Cuz that's  the that's the difference. So, the ROI on like a
478. 39:54a really good wrestler that's not that good at  content Yeah. isn't really as big as the ROI on
479. 40:00even though they have so much accolades. What's  stopping you from finding one of your influencers
480. 40:04that's really good at content and then going to  like uh Roman Bravo Young or whatever like RBY
481. 40:10that he's really great at. We tried getting him  a ton of someone that like maybe has a lot of
482. 40:14followers because they're a big wrestling name  but are bad at content and saying like, "Hey,
483. 40:18we're going to coach you how to do this. Just  take a video like this, send us the raw file,
484. 40:22we'll send you back the edited version and you  post it." You know what I'm saying? The thing that
485. 40:25stops us is the fact that it's wrestling season.  wrestling season. The fact that wrestling season
486. 40:32is our best season. It was when you were doing  this, you're saying like right now it's right
487. 40:37now it's not, but now it is. Yeah. December is  like maybe now would actually be the best bet to
488. 40:41try that. Yeah. And then ask him if he'd hold  off like a few months. Yeah. Like just take a
489. 40:45raw video that looks like this, you doing like  takedowns or whatever, and then we'll edit it,
490. 40:50send it back, and you just post what we send you,  you know? Yeah. Yeah. Actually, that that'd be
491. 40:54the best strategy. Well, I have a I was actually  thinking about something similar. I I want to hire
492. 40:59one of our creators. Yeah. just upload it to um  but I haven't offered him yet. I'm going to send
493. 41:02the offer probably late July. Okay. Cuz right  now we're like chilling cuz it's like we're out
494. 41:08of season. Um you probably rather have a 50,000  follower influencer wrestling influencer that's
495. 41:14really good at content than 500,000 follower  athlete that sucks at content, right? But if
496. 41:20you could have the best of both worlds, you could  have both, that would be great. Yeah, 100%. Okay,
497. 41:24so December, what did you do in December again?  So December we did 30 and then uh January we did
498. 41:2940. So you kind of have what you have going for  you is it is wrestling season. Everyone's excited
499. 41:35for NCAAs. Like it's the culture like people are  signing up more because it's wrestling season.
500. 41:41But you have working against you is athletes are  busy. Busy. Yeah. But I think it's it's still a
501. 41:46net win. Like it's probably better to launch this  all else equal in September than any other time.
502. 41:51Yeah. 100%. And so that was kind of lucky like  the timing just kind of worked out. Yeah. And
503. 41:55that was that was like I mean it wasn't the plan  because I didn't meet Kayen until August. But
504. 41:58like I told Kaden like we got to make sure like  we're getting this for the peak like the wrestling
505. 42:02season. Okay. So January 30k you said January  40. So 30 in December, 40 in January. Yeah. And
506. 42:09this is like in January by the way January I was  first month in my full-time job. I worked maybe
507. 42:15four hours on it. And this is like um we say  revenue but it's either monthly recurring or
508. 42:22yearly recurring. Yeah. Like it's so it's it's  it's recurring. Yeah. All right. 40 in January,
509. 42:28which is wild. So you're October, November, you're  four months in, 40 grand. February is crunch time.
510. 42:36That's that's like season's kind of ending. Yeah.  Um conference championships. Yeah. Yeah. And like
511. 42:41the be like the wrestlers who are like quitters.  They're starting to quit. Yeah. But we still had
512. 42:46a great month. We still When you say quitters,  you mean like mostly high school wrestlers? Is
513. 42:50that like the biggest Cuz there's a zillion more  high school wrestlers in college. Yeah. Yeah,
514. 42:53high school's our biggest. Okay, so therefore,  and Peewee like shock we had we had a lot of like
515. 42:57little kids hit us up. So in February you have  two things happening that are going against you.
516. 43:03A wrestlers are quitting probably for good and  B the seasons are just ending. These high school
517. 43:08seasons are ending at the end of February, give  or take. So what were your sales in February? Uh
518. 43:13it was still like 30ish. Okay. It was like 28 and  it's a shorter month. Um yeah, it was like 28 and
519. 43:19and like it was that was pretty much it. Like it  wasn't bad. And we were still very profitable like
520. 43:23cuz I think like our total like our expenses  are very low. How are you managing this 50/50
521. 43:29partnership and expenses like are you making a  cash distribution every month? Yes. To each other.
522. 43:36We started taking out in uh like Decemberish. In  the beginning I told him like I want to scale this
523. 43:41as much as I never want to scale this because we  want to take money. You know what I mean? And he
524. 43:46was kind of on board but it came to a point where  we just weren't able to spend the money. So every
525. 43:50month I would send out the distributions. But  the distributions are coming after you're paying
526. 43:54expenses, paying the influencers. Okay. Token cost  was that very high. No, our most expensive month
527. 44:00was January was 2K. And what model were you using  or are you using for this? I don't even remember.
528. 44:06It's it's the like it was the best OpenAI model  still. 40 GPT 40. I think this may have been five.
529. 44:13I'm not sure. Okay. I'm kind of surprised that  the tokens aren't higher. Is it just because the
530. 44:17usage isn't that much? Yeah. So, what we did,  what we found out is the analysis feature gets
531. 44:24them in the door, but you can only really use the  analysis feature like five times. And analysis
532. 44:29being they take a video and upload it. Yeah.  Uploading the wrestling match. Okay. That's like
533. 44:33our viral feature, right? But after you do that  five times, it's like, okay, you're running out
534. 44:38of matches and you're starting to get like like  you you usually you do the same problems multiple
535. 44:43times. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So like  you have a firm grasp head up. Yeah, exactly. You
536. 44:47have a firm grasp of of what the issues are.  What we did to combat that and we saw once we
537. 44:52started adding this stuff like our turn went from  like like this to like this. Adding what? Calorie
538. 44:58tracker feature to make sure like wrestlers  are really like some sticky. Yeah. Heavy. We
539. 45:02were heavy on weight management stuff. Okay. And  was the calorie tracker similar to Cali and they
540. 45:07just take a picture and upload. Yeah. We had like  all the options to track calories like same as my
541. 45:11fitness bell. Okay. barcode database everything  hard to implement like tedious hard we did just
542. 45:16APIs you're just plugging into database of food  exactly we're just using image recognition yeah
543. 45:21okay so the calorie tracker was big and uh calorie  tracker weight mode you'd upload your wrestling
544. 45:28calendar so you'd upload your match schedule and  it would parse it into the app's calendar and
545. 45:34then it would keep track of your weight so it' be  like hey you got to be you gota make sure you're
546. 45:37cutting hey it's Tuesday like yeah exactly you got  match Wednesday Yeah, we also added like stance in
547. 45:43motion mode where it call out for you and like  do your call outs like the app would tell you
548. 45:48to do stuff shots brawl circle. Yeah, that's cool.  People like that. Yeah, people people liked it cuz
549. 45:54like if you don't have your coach, you're you're  trying to like drill alone. You want like your
550. 45:58kind of like stance in motion mode. It gives you  like round times and stuff like that. Okay. And
551. 46:02then uh we also had a practice mode which would  teach you a move and then you would do the move
552. 46:07and then it would analyze you doing the move. M I  feel like that one was never as big. I I feel like
553. 46:13we could have made it better. Kind of gimmicky  like Yeah, we we just didn't So it was it was all
554. 46:19voice and voice and text. So we couldn't really  We didn't have videos. Okay. Yeah, we should have
555. 46:23had videos. Yeah. For the analyze feature, the one  that you started with, is it really telling them
556. 46:29unique stuff or is it saying like stop reaching  back like you know what I'm saying? So yeah,
557. 46:34I tell people it's it's mostly um like the biggest  thing is fundamentals. So it just evaluates it
558. 46:39based on like most of the stuff that like like the  fundamentals of what you're doing. Yeah. Like you
559. 46:44shot in for this double leg but your head was  down. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. It's not saying like
560. 46:49it's not getting like super granular like when  when Kale does an arm bar he you know like it'll
561. 46:54do that sometimes. So it'll catch some weird stuff  and it's like you could have rolled through. Yeah.
562. 46:59It could have you could have rolled through. You  could have done this and that. Okay. But like the
563. 47:03mo the biggest thing I wanted to make sure I got  down was the fundamentals because at that's why
564. 47:08that's why I was able to like start beating  my friends because I got really good at the
565. 47:12fundamentals. Well, that's the most broad. Yeah.  Like if you're getting really technical then it
566. 47:16goes over the head of 90% of wrestling. Exactly.  All right. So February hits, revenue drops. March
567. 47:21is like that's crunch time. Like what happens in  March? March we're still doing okay. It's it was
568. 47:27about uh it was like March was like 20 um April  was like 15. Okay. Now we're stagnating at around
569. 47:37like 10. Uhhuh. But that's our floor. Did you  see that's all monthly like shoot up in February,
570. 47:42March, April when the season ends. I thought we  were going to Not really. It was just we stopped
571. 47:48getting that as many new yearlies. Okay. That's  what caused the revenue to decline. Yeah. Yeah.
572. 47:54But it it did like don't get me wrong. Yeah.  increased, but it wasn't like I was expecting
573. 47:58February first hits. Yeah. Zero subs. That's what  was in my mind. I'm like, "All right, like that's
574. 48:05it is what it is." Like I knew that this was going  to happen. I like braced myself for it. Yeah. The
575. 48:09churn kind of went like that and then it kind of  just stayed the same. Okay. But our new we just
576. 48:14started getting less new year yearlys and most of  our revenue was coming from yearlys. Gotcha. Um
577. 48:19so like the 10 is basically just all renewals.  Now, are you slowing down your your outreach
578. 48:24playbook during this time? Yeah. Yeah, we stopped  just because it's not as effective. We stopped.
579. 48:28Yeah. And like there was a lot less influencers  we really wanted. Okay. So, we learned what a good
580. 48:34influencer looked like. Yeah. We stopped really  signing influencers. We kept the team we currently
581. 48:38have. Um, we were experimenting with paid, but  we were never going crazy with it. So, we kind
582. 48:42of cut paid a little bit. And then we were just  like we were just co like for the next few months
583. 48:47now until August, we're just going to be coasting  and rebuilding the product. Okay. So, like I'm
584. 48:52thinking about hiring now someone to just rebuild  the product. Yeah. And make it all nice. So,
585. 48:57do you know what your lifetime value is? Like our  LTV? Yeah. Of a user. I don't really. I know our
586. 49:03month one LTV is uh like the average the average  user purchases is around 25 bucks for their first
587. 49:11purchase. Yeah. Because it's like half are doing  60, half are doing 10. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So,
588. 49:17your LTV is probably closer to like 50, I would  think. Yeah, I would say around there. Okay. So,
589. 49:22if you spend $1,000 on videos, like $2 RPM for  500,000 views, you spend a,000 bucks on like
590. 49:32normal times, how much in revenue do you expect  that to return to you? Like total revenue. If we
591. 49:38spend a,000 bucks on influencers and so if I spend  a,000 bucks a $2 CPM, a $2 CPM should yield back
592. 49:45like a 5 to10 RPM. So we should see back like  2500 to 5k. Okay. So two two to 5x return on
593. 49:57ad spend. Yeah. Give or take. Now I scale things  differently though. So for these latest two apps,
594. 50:02the way I run these latest two apps, I part  instead of like a influencer or whatever,
595. 50:07I have like a like just a kid I trust who like I  could basically tell what to do and they'll do it.
596. 50:13Okay. Because like since I'm working too, I only  have like let's say three hours. Yeah. Right. So,
597. 50:19I'll tell the kid exactly what to do. He'll do  it and then I'll just fund the project. And I've
598. 50:24started like learning how the meta ads algorithm  worked. Mh. So, these two latest apps were like
599. 50:30able to scale both to 10K in like 45 days. And  it was solely through just creators and meta
600. 50:36ads. Same playbook plus paid ads. Same playbook  except paid ads just made it 10 times faster. So,
601. 50:42I didn't need to sign 10 creators and I didn't  need to saturate the niche to really have an
602. 50:46effect. Couldn't you do that for Wrestle AI? I  didn't know how. Yeah, now you will. You can.
603. 50:51Yeah, exactly. Especially when the season starts.  Yeah. Guys, I want to tell you about something
604. 50:54I've been building behind the scenes. You've been  watching my videos about AI tools and asking the
605. 50:59same question. Okay, cool. How do I turn this  into a business? Not just playing around with AI,
606. 51:03but actually getting clients and getting paid.  That's my community. It's called Playmakers.
607. 51:07playmakersai.com. It's an AI agency program where  we show you how to start an AI consulting business
608. 51:14where you can charge local businesses $500 to  $5,000 a month to set up and manage AI tools
609. 51:19for them. It's not a course you watch and forget  about. We do three to seven live training calls
610. 51:25every week taught by me and 23 other expert AI  agency owners. You get plug-and-play templates,
611. 51:31claude code tutorials, AI voice agent frameworks,  automation templates, and a 30-day road map so you
612. 51:36don't fall off track. This is stuff you can just  copy, paste, and deploy for clients on day one.
613. 51:41And of course, how to find clients as well. We  also have a 5-day first client challenge where
614. 51:45we can walk you through landing your first paying  client in 5 days. You also get my frameworks for
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618. 52:04an AI consulting business or AI implementation  business, go check out playmakakerai.com. Okay.
619. 52:10So is the playbook. Find the right influencer.  Find out what uh so like the new app launching
620. 52:14playbook, right? Pick a niche, find creators  in that niche, figure out what type of creator
621. 52:20is the most effective. Triple down on them. Find  their best organically producing videos. Push paid
622. 52:28behind those. or cuz sometimes so Corey Zader his  videos don't work well as paid ads right because
623. 52:36of the fact that the integration's super subtle so  it's a day in my life he's more subtle than you'd
624. 52:42like no no for organic that's amazing okay that's  why he does really well paid it's too subtle for
625. 52:47paid you need a direct CTA within like like you  need some sort of a CTA within 15 seconds in the
626. 52:53first 15 is that what you're saying like roughly  you need to say like this is the pro you need to
627. 52:56show the product within the first 15 seconds  paid organic you have at least like 30 a paid
628. 53:02maybe you even have a less window and that's when  like I started just realizing like I started just
629. 53:07looking on meta ads library studying the best  converting ads and then from there I'll find a
630. 53:13creator that I like and I'll like just say hey can  you just make these videos for me I'll pay you for
631. 53:17the videos you don't have to post them and they're  like off I don't have user generated content for
632. 53:23apps yeah and then um they make the video it'll be  something super simple that like gets to the point
633. 53:29of what the app does. And it's like an overt  ad. What? It's an overt ad. It's very clear
634. 53:35that this is an ad for Wrestle AI is what you're  saying. Somewhat. Yeah. So, it's like for example,
635. 53:41like give me like the like the boxing app, right?  Yeah. How I landed this punch. Boom. Guy gets hit,
636. 53:47right? Um before my match, I threw his video  into the opponent analysis. So, I threw my
637. 53:53thing into this app. I saw that after every time  he threw like this this this specific exchange,
638. 53:58he would drop his hands, right? He throws this  specific to the app. I now know that. Exactly. He
639. 54:03would throw this specific exchange. Bang. Hit him.  Well, cuz Yeah. And he would actually throw the
640. 54:07opponent's videos into the app and that's how he  would get like the screenshot. Yeah. Right. That's
641. 54:11literally the ad. That's the script. How long is  the entire video? 30 seconds probably. Okay. The
642. 54:16influencer will take this video. Will he edit it  or you? No, he edits it. He edits it. Sends it. He
643. 54:22never posts it. Never post it. No. Now, when you  push, sometimes they post it. Sometimes we take
644. 54:26videos that they post. They can. They don't. You  don't need them to. It's just a bonus if they post
645. 54:30it. Most of the time we work with influencers. We  tell them to post it. Like we'll they'll they'll
646. 54:35make videos to post and then we'll either take  those videos and rerun them as paid ads, but
647. 54:40we'll also have like an influencer that'll that'll  post and we'll make paid ads for us. Okay. So,
648. 54:47they're like two separate deals. Gotcha. Okay. So,  30 seconds long. You mentioned it in the first 15.
649. 54:52Yeah. And then you push paid ads behind it.  Mostly Instagram, Facebook reels. Yeah. All
650. 54:57meta. But like we let Meta decide. Okay. Yeah. Do  you know what Meta ends up choosing? Like is it
651. 55:03heavy Instagram heavy? Because Facebook reels are  slept on. Facebook exploding. We have like huge
652. 55:08traffic on Facebook. Okay. Shocked. But you don't  really track where they're showing it. You just
653. 55:13say meta placement is just give Yeah, you just  give meta the spend. Okay. So what do the unit
654. 55:17economics look like on those paid ads then? So for  the boxing app, we have uh we spend 400 a day. We
655. 55:23make around 9 to 12 back. Okay. Right up front or  that's like LTV? No. Day one. Okay. Wow. I know.
656. 55:31Yeah. So I really want to scale it. But now And  that's recurring though. Yeah. Specifically. Okay.
657. 55:36So you spend 400 on a Tuesday and on Tuesday you  make 9 to 1200 day one, but that's also recurring.
658. 55:42Yeah. So it's it day one is like two to 4x return  on ad spend. Yeah. Lifetime is much higher. Yeah.
659. 55:49So that's why we're now getting into RevenueCat  payments because so I've been just funding the
660. 55:54project myself, right? So what we're doing is  we're getting Revenue Cat. Revenue Cat has a thing
661. 55:58called Do you know what Revenue Cat is? Never  heard of it. So Revenue Cat is like the payw wall
662. 56:02provider for apps. So it knows all of your payw  wall statistics and stuff like that. Okay. Right.
663. 56:07What they also do is they have a program called  Revenue Cat payments and it will pay you what you
664. 56:14make day one up to 80% of what you made. Right.  Oh, they're fronting the payment and taking a
665. 56:20percentage. Exactly. Okay. Right. Then we put more  into 2%. Otherwise, you're you're taking 60 days
666. 56:25to get that money. Exactly. Okay. So, how much  do they take? 2%. Okay. At the end of the month,
667. 56:30it's not bad. It's not bad if you have that. If  you have like heavy rorowaz, like day one rorowaz,
668. 56:35you have to be able to afford it. But, and now I  could take the 800 or let's say they pay 60%. So,
669. 56:41it'd be like what they they pay up to 80%. to be  what's 20% like minus 160 so it' be like 640 now
670. 56:49you have 640 to spend on ads so that's why I'm  really excited about scaling this app because
671. 56:55it's like it's like super low effort on my part at  least like the other guys working very hard thank
672. 56:59you he's a great guy this is the guy you said  Osama or No no no he's just a kid I know that's
673. 57:06like he's smart okay so he's smart I know if I  tell him what to do he'll like do it and he'll do
674. 57:11it well okay so I'm really excited to scale that  app And then we have another app that's a workout
675. 57:16app. Hold on. That other app, when did you start  that? Um, I started that around 45 days ago. Okay.
676. 57:22It's done about 18K this month. So, wrestling  season ends. You're like, "All right, let's kind
677. 57:29of put this on the back burner till August,  September. We'll fire it back up." And also,
678. 57:33I want more apps buil built on Ror that are making  more money. Right. That's like Ror's biggest You
679. 57:39work for them. Yeah. That's Ror's. Yeah, that's  Ror's like northstar metric is how much are their
680. 57:43users making. Okay. And that's why ROK is like  I don't like to say it, but it's better than all
681. 57:46the other platforms because according to like  the all like the payw wall providers, right,
682. 57:51Revenue Cat, according to Revenue Cat, out of all  the AI app builders, Ror apps are generating the
683. 57:56most amount of revenue because they build the  highest quality apps, stuff like that. Other
684. 58:01competitors are focused on signups and like  vanity metrics and they're like, we want our
685. 58:05customers to be successful. It's trying to be the  Shopify for that for apps. You know what I mean?
686. 58:09Gotcha. Like I think that's the thing that wins  the thing in my opinion case studies are what wins
687. 58:14long terms. Yeah. Cali was built in ROR. That's  a huge. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. I'm saying if
688. 58:20it was it would be the biggest like everyone would  then try everyone who would then want to get into
689. 58:25apps would try to build through through RO. Yeah.  Like like you said like Shopify. Exactly. Um and
690. 58:31then if gurus exist that's like the that's like  the goal but gurus don't exist. You have to let
691. 58:36gurus happen actually. I mean gurus, info people  are great at pushing stuff. Yeah. So like if you
692. 58:41have an info guy pushing ROR Yeah. and that being  like a part of the process. Gotcha. But I mean
693. 58:46info is a bit scammy, but uh some people are.  Yeah. But some people are great. Like there's
694. 58:50some great info. Okay. So you launch the is it is  it MMA? Is it boxing? Is it fighting? What is like
695. 58:57the niche that you consider that? So I launched  two. So Well, I want to get to the second one.
696. 59:02Yeah. Yeah. First one. Well, around the same time,  but boxing. Okay. box. That's like the newest one.
697. 59:07The other one's a workout one. Okay. It's for  uh Yeah, it's Which I would think that's a comp
698. 59:12that's a crowded space. It wasn't my idea, but  I'll say like what it does. Basically, you take
699. 59:17a picture of your abs and it tells you how to get  a better better six-pack. That's smart. Is that
700. 59:21like I wasn't actually crazy about this idea, but  I was like when the kid told So, somebody hits me
701. 59:27up on Twitter to do this and I I like I always hop  on calls with people, tell them what I think and
702. 59:33stuff like that. So, like I hopped on a call with  this kid and he's telling me he's like, "Dude,
703. 59:37look up abs. There's no competition." This and  that. He's going crazy. I'm like, "Dude, you're
704. 59:41telling me people are going to take a picture of  their abs, get a rating. I think it's brilliant."
705. 59:44Well, it's been turning out pretty good. We'll  get to that. We'll get to that. I'm glad. But, uh,
706. 59:50I saw there and I thought it was like so funny.  Like, I thought the idea was funny, but the kid
707. 59:53had so much passion about it that I just felt such  a that. Yeah. I'm like, this kid's like sitting
708. 59:59here. He's like like so passionate. There's no way  this kid's not going to win. Like there's no way
709. 1:00:03he's not going to win. Like I know he's going to  win. Like the way he's talking to me, I know he's
710. 1:00:09going to win. So, uh, is he? He's my age. Okay.  So, he's super funny cuz like an uh an app that
711. 1:00:16will analyze your workouts. That's probably pretty  crowded, I would think. Yeah. So, he's saying,
712. 1:00:21"Let's unbundle that. Let's niche down just to  abs." I think Oh, man. Do you know how many like
713. 1:00:27billions of dollars have been sold on infomercials  for like ab gear? 100%. Yeah. And that's what this
714. 1:00:32is. It's the AI app version of that. Yeah. I just  couldn't I think I just couldn't see it at the
715. 1:00:37time. Right. But uh because it was like because  there's like a bunch of the looks maxing apps
716. 1:00:42that kind of like gave incorporate that. It gave  a bad look to like the ratings style apps. Okay.
717. 1:00:47Yeah. Right. So I was thinking of it as like  oh it's another rating style app. But no it's
718. 1:00:52it's a huge niche. Like I agree. And uh and so we  started scaling it. We tried organic. Organic did
719. 1:01:00pretty bad because we were sponsoring. We weren't  sponsoring great people. So like we didn't have
720. 1:01:05crazy results on organic. We started paid. What  kind of people were you sponsoring? That didn't
721. 1:01:09work. It was like some of these like what we found  was when we would just show the cards. So when we
722. 1:01:15would just show the ratings, right? What do you  mean ratings? So you take a picture and it rates
723. 1:01:20your six pack. It gives it like a score out of  100. Okay. When we would just show the ratings,
724. 1:01:25we got downloads and like turn would spike. Like  it'd be quick turn. So you would show like a
725. 1:01:29picture of someone's abs with a rating above it.  Yeah. As an ad for the app. Yeah. So it'd be like
726. 1:01:35lock in like the gym influencer lock in takes a  picture of their six-pack like uh whatever and
727. 1:01:41then that would be the ad. Something like that  like hook hook scan what that's it. Sometimes
728. 1:01:46people would download and they would subscribe but  then they would turn out quick, right? And what
729. 1:01:51the best type of videos were the ones that would  show the actual it would be rating workout and
730. 1:01:57then them doing the workout. So because it would  show like the app actually teaches you how to get
731. 1:02:01a six-pack. Okay. We never like I don't like we  didn't think about this till after the guy doing
732. 1:02:05crunches instead of just a picture of a guy's ab.  It would show the workouts tailored to your abs
733. 1:02:10like design or whatever. Right. I think that's an  important learning point is like not all customers
734. 1:02:17are created the same. like you're getting these  big spikes and you're like, "This works. This is
735. 1:02:21what we need to do." And then you see they churn,  right? Whereas you might be able to spend more per
736. 1:02:26customer and so on the surface it doesn't work as  well, but the churn is next to zero. So it works
737. 1:02:30much better. Exactly. Right. It's kind of like me,  like when I'm acquiring newsletter subscribers,
738. 1:02:35I might get subscribers that open at 80% instead  of 60%, but they're clicking at 2% instead of
739. 1:02:406%. It's like, well, if they're never clicking  anything, the open rate is just a vanity metric.
740. 1:02:44I need them to click. So, I'd rather have 40% open  rate and 6% click rate than 80% open rate and 2%
741. 1:02:49click rate, right? Okay. So, then we started  running meta ads and then our meta ads started
742. 1:02:56like it was like we would be spending a h 100red  bucks a day averaging around like 200 to 300. Mhm.
743. 1:03:02And then we just kept like now we've been like  slowly increasing spend. So before we go heavy
744. 1:03:08on the the second app, tell me the you said you're  45 days in to the the fighting one. Both of them
745. 1:03:16roughly. You started both around the same time.  Yeah, it was like is it almost the exact same like
746. 1:03:20time? Okay. And then what have the revenue numbers  been for each? So the workout ones at like 8 this
747. 1:03:26month. Okay. Um because it also had problems with  like the co the co-founder started bragging about
748. 1:03:33it on X. Okay. started tweeting like on the  workout one we have a crazy conversion. We
749. 1:03:37have like a over 20% like download to paid. What  what is the average? Average is like five. Wow.
750. 1:03:43So people don't even get five. Yeah. You guys  are at 20. Why do you think it's so different?
751. 1:03:49We have a good onboarding, good pricing. Okay. And  obviously like we're targeting the right people.
752. 1:03:54Yeah. But he was bragging about our conversion  rate and what he pointed out in our payw wall
753. 1:03:58which is like kind of compliant. Like Apple like  Apple even admitted that for the most part it's
754. 1:04:02compliant. We pass review and all that. We never  hid anything from Apple review, but on Twitter and
755. 1:04:08you never post your app on I mean you could post  it, but if you're doing anything that's anything
756. 1:04:14close to being gray, never do that on Twitter  cuz Apple's on there like a hawk. Yeah. So,
757. 1:04:19and there's this one guy that quote tweets it and  tries to report you. So, he posted it and if you
758. 1:04:23look, it lists our monthly price and weekly  terms. So, it'd be like it'd be like month on
759. 1:04:29the top it would say monthly subscription. So it  would be like what monthly it was like $11.99. So
760. 1:04:33it's like I don't know like two bucks a week or  something or two 2.4. So it's like $2.40 a week
761. 1:04:38and then $10 a month. And that that's how it  was listed. You could do that but the weekly
762. 1:04:43was above in hierarchy of like whatever since the  weekly price was above the monthly price. Yeah.
763. 1:04:49And they were the same tech size too which is like  like are you kidding me? Like it was the same tech
764. 1:04:54size name everything but just the higher because  Yeah. because the weekly was above and some guy
765. 1:04:59reported us to Apple. To be fair, what my friend  also wrote in the tweet is he started saying like
766. 1:05:05he was trying to like clickbait. So he's like a  moral way to increase your conversions, right?
767. 1:05:09So it wasn't even the fact that we did it. This is  like really weird. This is like the weirdest thing
768. 1:05:13I've ever had with Apple. Yeah. They removed us  for two weeks and I'm like making fun of the kid.
769. 1:05:18I'm like, "Look what you did." Cuz like he's super  amped up. He's like super hyped. He's like, "Dude,
770. 1:05:23I've been like whatever. I've been dreaming this."  I'm like, "Oh, look what you get." Uh, and then
771. 1:05:29we've we've spammed Apple, right? That's why like  to get reactivated. Yeah. Never accept. And this
772. 1:05:36is for everything. I feel like not enough people  have this mindset. Never accept what somebody
773. 1:05:41does. Never. My meta account got locked in. Got  locked. I got locked out. Like 2FA was broken in
774. 1:05:46meta. Yeah. Right. For my account, 2FA was broken.  Yeah. So, I couldn't log into my ads account. And
775. 1:05:51this was when we were running ads for both. Yeah.  Right. The way I got back in it was I quick added
776. 1:05:55everyone on LinkedIn that works at Meta and  I spam DM'd them like begging them to fix it.
777. 1:06:01There's always a way. Like don't accept anything  at face value. Never. Never. So people are like
778. 1:06:06people just I like to call it the throw your hands  up attitude. Dang it. Well, I guess that sucks.
779. 1:06:11I guess I'm not in business. Like what? Yeah.  It's like no do anything in your power. I was
780. 1:06:17I was about to like drive to Apple headquarters  and protest to get to get like re reinstated.
781. 1:06:23So, we finally get in contact with Apple. They  call us up, right? And I told them it's because
782. 1:06:28the tweet. We still don't 100% know it's a tweet.  I I knew for a fact they're never going to tell
783. 1:06:31you it's No, they they showed us the screenshot  of the Oh, shoot. from this narc needs to go
784. 1:06:38build itself. They showed us a screenshot saying  you his words were not. It wasn't the fact that
785. 1:06:46you did anything wrong because this isn't true.  This isn't truly against your guidelines. Yeah,
786. 1:06:51you could argue it is, right? Yeah. It's the fact  you made us look bad. Yeah, I believe it. That's
787. 1:06:57their It's their pride. It's Yeah. And especially  on Twitter, like you have to understand Twitter's
788. 1:07:02where investors are. Twitter's are where like  consumers are. Twitter's the spot where anyone
789. 1:07:06is accessible. Yeah. Like you could get in contact  with a millionaire who has like 400 followers on
790. 1:07:12Twitter. Billionaire. Yeah. Billion. It like it's  the best networking tool. Yeah. But you have to
791. 1:07:17be careful what you say about the wrong people  because everyone's watching. Yeah. So because
792. 1:07:21we insulted Apple, a top Apple exec could go there  and yell at his team right after. Yeah. Right. So
793. 1:07:27they were like, "You made us look extremely bad.  This and that." Um, we had to write an apology
794. 1:07:32letter over email. Like whatever it takes. Like  a page long. You probably wrote that as fast as
795. 1:07:37you could. Did you use AI? Boot it up. Boot it up.  Claude. Claude, make this the most deep apologetic
796. 1:07:45essay ever. My income depends on this. We just  wanted to say we are deeply I think one of the
797. 1:07:51lines were one of the lines were like as a company  we had to make I forgot what it was. It's like we
798. 1:07:58we took a step back. We took a step back. Took a  step back and said that transparency comes first.
799. 1:08:04Yeah. Right. Oh my gosh. And then uh and thank  God they approved us. He like the guy called
800. 1:08:10us up after. He was like yelling at us. Calls  us up after. He was like super nice. you ever
801. 1:08:14need anything like let us know like dude I wrote  that with claude and then uh and then we went on
802. 1:08:19like Twitter like we just want to say Apple's a  great company dude that's so interesting that like
803. 1:08:26how much ego and pride still rule everything like  reputation how we look like at any level trillion
804. 1:08:32dollar company down to the individual it rules  all random like it wasn't even me right where
805. 1:08:39like I mean I don't even have a crazy amount  of followers on Twitter but like sometimes I'll
806. 1:08:42have a tweet that gets like 20k views, something  like that, right? It was a random kid on Twitter
807. 1:08:47with like 400 followers that tweeted it. Did that  tweet do well? He did get views, but he got views
808. 1:08:53cuz the nar the nar tweeted it. I'm not going to I  blocked him on everything. Oh my god. Got to hide
809. 1:08:58that guy. He can't have that guy just snooping my  stuff. All right. So, you launched these two apps
810. 1:09:03at around the same time. What was the And it's  been 45 days since each of them launched. Yeah.
811. 1:09:08And what's the revenue been for each of them  since? So, lifetime. lifetime like 23 is the
812. 1:09:14uh boxing one. Uhhuh. And around 15 is the  uh the workout workout one. How high do you
813. 1:09:23think all three of these apps could go? Like what  does like scale look like? So So my goal for the
814. 1:09:29next So I'm leaving uh potentially leaving work,  right? Solely because I just want to focus on my
815. 1:09:33own things. Um I think the company's still great.  I have nothing but kind words to say about them.
816. 1:09:39But for the next six months, I I I want one big  company. So like I don't want to be the guy with
817. 1:09:44like like 10 different sasses. You could have  an app studio. You could. Yeah. That that and
818. 1:09:49that's what like my dilemma is like I know if I  go and make a basketball app, I'll crush. I know
819. 1:09:54like I I I feel like you have the playbook. I have  the confidence that I'll go I could go and crush
820. 1:09:58in basketball, go crush in hockey, I could just  take over sports. Yeah. Which is still something
821. 1:10:02I'm considering. But I also really have like a  high desire to build one thing to be like like I
822. 1:10:07have a high desire to focus on one product, make  sure that product's the best product possible,
823. 1:10:12and make sure it's like making the most amount of  money. Yeah. And solve like a really hard problem.
824. 1:10:17See, focus looks different for different  people. I like to say focus is overrated,
825. 1:10:21momentum is underrated. Focus for you could look  like like making niche apps with the same launch
826. 1:10:27playbook over and over. It doesn't have to look  like scale your wrestling app as far as it can
827. 1:10:31go. It could. Focus can look different, right?  No, 100%. I think what you could do, you could
828. 1:10:36follow the exact same playbook as Flow Wrestling.  You're familiar with them? I don't know what their
829. 1:10:40playbook is. I I know. You know Flow Sports?  Yeah. Yeah. So, if you watch me on YouTube,
830. 1:10:45you notice I sell these $19 business plans.  They're 30 pages. They're awesome. But you can get
831. 1:10:50all of them combined for only five bucks a month.  So, check that out at the link in the description.
832. 1:10:55In addition to getting $300 worth of free business  plans every month for the videos I post about,
833. 1:11:00we also post exclusive videos not available  to the public, only to you for five bucks a
834. 1:11:06month. Cancel whenever. We also give you priority  replies to your comments. You'll have a little
835. 1:11:10badge by your username on YouTube. So, we'll  see you. It's just a cool way to say, "Hey,
836. 1:11:14I'm more serious about this than everyone  else watching these videos." You know, Flow
837. 1:11:18Sports. Yeah. Yeah. Flow Sports started with Flow  Wrestling. And their thesis was, okay, everyone's
838. 1:11:25covering, you know, basketball games, college,  this is collegiate, collegiate basketball,
839. 1:11:31um, collegiate football, whatever, but there's  dozens of other collegiate sports that have rabid
840. 1:11:36fan bases that ESPN will never care about. Not  only do they not care about, but they will never
841. 1:11:40care about. We need to do the hard, tedious thing  and get boots on the ground in not just colleges,
842. 1:11:47not just D1, but D2, D3, and high schools to film  wrestling matches, right? That was their thing.
843. 1:11:53And it's like, we're going to do this tediously.  We're going to have guys in Omaha, Nebraska,
844. 1:11:58in Fresno, California, all over with a camera  filming wrestling matches. Not just like any
845. 1:12:02wrestling match, but starting with like the most  popular high-profile ones. Yeah. like beast of the
846. 1:12:06east for high school is like a huge nationwide  tournament or basically any D1 match, you know,
847. 1:12:12Iowa vers Iowa State, whatever. So that was their  whole playbook. Paywalled from day one, 10 bucks
848. 1:12:17a month, 120 a year or whatever it was. And they  started with wrestling. Their whole company was
849. 1:12:23flowrestling.com for years. And then they're like,  "All right, like we feel like we've got a good
850. 1:12:28playbook now. Let's go." I think they went track  and field next. Then they went cross country,
851. 1:12:33gymnastics, and now it's flow sports. and it's a  multiundred million dollar company and they just
852. 1:12:39film and live stream and have a database of these  collegiate and high school sports events. And now
853. 1:12:46they make like documentaries and like they're  like the Netflix for underappreciated sports,
854. 1:12:51overlooked sports, both high school and college.  So like you could do the same thing with your app
855. 1:12:55studio. You know what I'm saying? Like you could  roll them all up under the same the same company,
856. 1:12:59start with wrestling and go to other sports or  other niches or other workout apps or whatever.
857. 1:13:04Like you could focus, still focus, but have  dozens of different apps. That's true. And that's
858. 1:13:09something I've been like kind of like wrestling  with. Pun intended. Pun intended. But uh that's
859. 1:13:14something I've been like in between. I don't  know kind of which path I'm going to take. Well,
860. 1:13:18what are you wrestling between? Like it's either  what are the options in front of you? I'm still
861. 1:13:23going to scale these apps that we currently have,  right? Because it's like I have someone that like
862. 1:13:27I because I like I could always hire, right?  Right. For wrestling, I'm probably going to hire
863. 1:13:31I'm going to hire someone that could like just  do the ops and stuff. And then like kind of like
864. 1:13:35how I have these relationships with these other  two kids that are one's doing the workout app,
865. 1:13:39one's doing the boxing app, one and then I'm  going to get someone to do the wrestle app and
866. 1:13:43then all it takes for me is just like a little bit  of direction and that doesn't that's not a lot of
867. 1:13:48work. Yeah. Right. A little bit of direction and  like money. Yeah. So that's not a lot of work and
868. 1:13:53that's what I'm that's what I'm thinking about and  then maybe then like scaling those and then maybe
869. 1:13:59trying to make like one app like particularly  maybe like so one of the apps I was thinking about
870. 1:14:04is have you ever heard of superpower? No. So it's  a it's like a it's like a health analytics app.
871. 1:14:11So it's like a it's like a blood work app like you  download it. It uploads all your blood work stuff
872. 1:14:15to AI and it like basically tells you like what  you're like missing out on what what each means.
873. 1:14:21I know function I use function health and it seems  like the same thing. Yeah. I pay 500 bucks. I get
874. 1:14:25two blood panels a year. It all goes to the app  and then they give me all this analysis. Yeah.
875. 1:14:30Yeah. So, I was thinking about maybe maybe  potentially uh because it's higher ticket,
876. 1:14:36but I don't know. I'm not I'm not sold on what  what I would want to do that could be bigger
877. 1:14:40or just scaling this up to like aundred apps.  Yeah. So, if I were you, like very specifically,
878. 1:14:45I would create a parent company that you own 100%  of. Yeah. Right. George LLC. That's kind of what
879. 1:14:51I have now. Yeah. And then all of these apps you  start should be independent LLC's. That's some of
880. 1:14:57them you have partners, right? Like this the first  Hayden. What's it mean? You have different splits
881. 1:15:02and like 50% is owned by George LLC. 50% is owned  by him. That's how it's structured, right? And
882. 1:15:07then everything when you make a distribution for  the wrestling company, it funnels up to George LLC
883. 1:15:11and then when you can afford it, you pay George  from George LLC. Yes, that's how I do it. Yeah,
884. 1:15:17I would just do that at scale. And just know  every year you're probably going to be culling
885. 1:15:21apps. You're going to be cutting them down%.  That's just And that's not anything to feel bad
886. 1:15:26about. It's just the 8020 rule exists everywhere.  Yeah. So, if you have 30 apps, I can already tell
887. 1:15:32you that 20 of them will be okay or maybe even 25  will be okay and five will print all your money.
888. 1:15:38Yeah. Right. And so, you're just going to have  to call them over time. I would like scale the
889. 1:15:42crap out of that. Like, that could be a publicly  traded company. That could be huge. I don't see
890. 1:15:46any reason why you you couldn't and shouldn't do  that. Like, you have the playbook. Yeah, I agree.
891. 1:15:50I think my big concern is hiring. What about it?  Being able to hire good people that could do it,
892. 1:15:56that could like run them. Why not? Why couldn't  you? Before we launched, I actually had a few
893. 1:16:00more that we were potentially launching and it was  the 8020 rule. Yeah. Right. It was these two were
894. 1:16:06actually great kids and the other two the other  few people I tried hiring just sucked. It's the
895. 1:16:11same thing with the apps. Like you just have to  churn through people. Yeah, you do. Until you find
896. 1:16:15good hires. 8020 rules everywhere. It's the law of  the universe. Like gravity literally. So you fire
897. 1:16:20you hire 10 people that appear to be rock stars.  A year 10 years from now, two of them will be rock
898. 1:16:25stars. The other eight you filtered through. But  what you're going to learn is 5 years from now,
899. 1:16:29you're going to have filtered through so many non-  rockstars that your whole team will be rock stars.
900. 1:16:33And then you kind of have something to like you  know what to look out for. Yeah. You just like
901. 1:16:38your influencer strategy. Then you're going to get  better at identifying the rock stars so you don't
902. 1:16:43have to churn through as many. That's what I would  do. Like that will make a lot of money if I were
903. 1:16:47you. That sounds sick. Do you ever use YouTube or  YouTube ads at all or is it just Tik Tok? I want
904. 1:16:51I want to get into that now with the the boxing  one. Okay. What about Tik Tok ads? paid on Tik
905. 1:16:56Tok. That's what we were doing for wrestle  when we were optimizing for downloads, but
906. 1:17:00like never optimally. Okay. All right. So, we've  we've talked a very specific playbook here, but
907. 1:17:05if someone wanted to go out and start their own  app like you've done, what advice would you give
908. 1:17:11them? What would the playbook be that we maybe  haven't covered here? Yeah. So, like literally my
909. 1:17:15zero to one is understand your app needs a gotcha  feature, right? It needs one feature that you run
910. 1:17:22advertising on. Okay. that feature, the job of  it is to explain the entire app in five seconds.
911. 1:17:28Like, and it might not be the feature that they  use the most, but it's the feature that's going
912. 1:17:31to get them in the door. Yeah. Okay. So, it  visually visually you should be able to look
913. 1:17:36at your phone and understand exactly what it  does. If you need give your phone to your mom,
914. 1:17:41if she doesn't understand what the app does, like,  it's not good. Yeah. Right. After you have that,
915. 1:17:46I would then, and I I get like flack for this, but  like this is what I would do if if I needed to go
916. 1:17:52from zero to one. I haven't done this for some of  these other apps. Like I didn't do this for SAI,
917. 1:17:56but I've done this before and it works. Bought  up your Instagram account. Bought it. Yeah. Like
918. 1:18:01when you're a brand, pay for the verification,  pay for followers in the beginning. Okay. Where
919. 1:18:06where do you go to pay for followers? Um there's  a site MOS SMM. Mo SMM. Yeah. It's M O Wes. And it
920. 1:18:13costs next to nothing. It's a dollar per whatever  per thousand. Okay. And you're saying it's worth
921. 1:18:17it just for social proof. In the beginning  of your outreach, you're going to get So,
922. 1:18:22the biggest problem is when you're you're going  to be outreaching into the void. In the beginning,
923. 1:18:25you're going to be sending your profile.  They're going to click on your profile.
924. 1:18:29Okay. They're going to see, "Bro, this guy has  zero followers. Why would I work with him?" Yeah.
925. 1:18:32But if they see that you you have the three, so  your first three posts should just be like shots
926. 1:18:38of the product that look really nice. You should  have like 15,000ish followers. Okay? Pay for the
927. 1:18:44verification if you can. And then once they see  that, the likelihood of them them working with
928. 1:18:50you doubled. Do you do you pay for views on those  three videos as well? No. No. No. No. Doesn't even
929. 1:18:55matter. No. I mean, to be honest, I I didn't  really do the I did the bot following before,
930. 1:19:01but usually when you when you start collab  posting with a lot of your influencers,
931. 1:19:05that's the best bet. So once these influencers  once your first five influencers start posting,
932. 1:19:11push for mo the first like their first videos to  all be collabs because now your page looks even
933. 1:19:19nicer. It's I'm looking at a brand. I could see  the videos. I could see other creators that have
934. 1:19:24worked with him. I may know them, right? He's  getting thousands of thousands of like hundreds
935. 1:19:29of thousands of views. He has a lot of followers.  His like account looks very neat and professional.
936. 1:19:35Yeah. Yeah. and you're a legitimate person.  And when you're a legitimate person, right,
937. 1:19:39if I worked with 10 influencers that this guy  knows and I offer him a cheap rate, he's just
938. 1:19:44going to think that that's the rates. Yeah. Right.  He's just going to be like, "Okay, these are the
939. 1:19:47rates. I either accept it or I don't, but but  these are the rates. I'm not getting jipped."
940. 1:19:51Right. I see these guys worked with them. If I'm a  no-name and I'm just some kid, right, which I I've
941. 1:19:57been just some kid. That's how I know this. Yeah.  Is and then I offer you like $2 CBM. I get like
942. 1:20:05laughed in my face. Oh, you're just a broke kid  who like knows nothing about this. Yeah. Doesn't
943. 1:20:09ma it like doesn't matter. If your account looks  professional though, they're much likely to take
944. 1:20:13a deal. Yeah. Um for cheaper. And so that's my  main strategy. Uh the DM, you send as many DMs as
945. 1:20:21you can. The DM should be paid promo and the paid  promo for app name. That should be the first line.
946. 1:20:26Always experiment with it, I would say, because a  lot of people are doing that now. Mhm. But to you
947. 1:20:32just want to con cuz they're going to look at your  DM through that little Yeah. like the preview the
948. 1:20:37first like four words. Yeah. Before they click  on it before it gets like cut off by the dots,
949. 1:20:41right? Some of them won't even click on it. So if  they see paid promo, the likelihood of them I'm
950. 1:20:46going to get money. Exactly. That's the first  thought that gets like sent to their head. Oh,
951. 1:20:51I'll make money off this guy. Yeah. Send as many  DMs as you can. I would say after you make your
952. 1:20:55first thousand bucks, hire a VA instantly. The  the ROI is infinite on VAS. Yeah. And experiment
953. 1:21:01with meta ads. But I wouldn't experime if if you  don't have I'm going to say three grand to like if
954. 1:21:08you're not willing to spend 3K on ads, I wouldn't  do it. Just do this outreach stuff first. I would
955. 1:21:12do influencers and wait influencers. I would do  influencers only. If you have over 3K, I would say
956. 1:21:17yeah. How many What's like the minimum amount  of followers you want out of an influencer? I
957. 1:21:22honestly don't care about followers. I care about  average views. Okay. What What are you looking
958. 1:21:26for? 25,000. Average give. So, some are five,  some are 50, some are 100, some Yeah. Okay. So,
959. 1:21:32if we were starting Basketball AI. Yeah. You're  going to go reserve the handle on Instagram,
960. 1:21:36basketball AI. Is that what you're going to first  start? Okay. You're going to seed it with 15,000
961. 1:21:41fake followers for 15 or 20 bucks. Yeah. Then  you're going to make a few videos that look nice,
962. 1:21:46post them. Doesn't matter how many views they  have. They just need to see you've posted
963. 1:21:49something. You're going to get very You need  posts of your like like product shots basically,
964. 1:21:54like statics of your product. Then you're going to  get Metaverified, which is like 20 bucks a month,
965. 1:21:5916 bucks a month with the blue check mark.  Then you're going to start doing outreach
966. 1:22:02that starts with paid promo for basketball AI.  Yeah, that's a playbook. And then you just send
967. 1:22:07as many DMs as you possibly can. Okay. And  then you I mean you you vibe code the app,
968. 1:22:13use or whatever. No, you just build out the  app. And you want to have one killer feature.
969. 1:22:19You want to test all of your killer features  in your ads or in your your organic videos,
970. 1:22:24but find the one that seems to resonate the  most. and then triple down on that. Yeah. And
971. 1:22:27that gets them in the door whether they end up. I  would say reverse actually. So you should have an
972. 1:22:33idea of which feature was going to be the best  and I would first only push that feature. Yeah.
973. 1:22:38And then experiment. Yeah. It has to be visually  simple to explain. Yeah. Like wrestle AI when we
974. 1:22:44saw that like our influencers would saturate like  okay they're kept posting about SI and like the
975. 1:22:50results weren't starting to like lessen per video.  We would then have them introduce another feature
976. 1:22:55of the app and that's when then re-triggered  the jumps. Gotcha. It's like a brand new app.
977. 1:23:00Yeah. It's like it's like another side of the app  that they haven't seen before. Yeah. Okay. And it
978. 1:23:04educates them more. So you started this less than  a year ago. What has your revenue been to date so
979. 1:23:09far across all of these projects? So to date, I  think 225,000 in like nine months of building VI
980. 1:23:16coding apps without any coding experience. Yeah.  Oh my gosh. Quarter million dollars. Most of that
981. 1:23:21profit. Yeah. a lot of time for sure. You've  paid a VA. Uh you've paid your influencers,
982. 1:23:27but maybe if like whatever ate in your profit was  just paid ad spend that will pay profits in the
983. 1:23:32future. Does that make sense? Yeah. Exactly. Like  your percentage profit would have been much higher
984. 1:23:36even if your revenue would have been lower had you  not done paid ads. So I used to be super worried
985. 1:23:41about pro like I used to sit there and like try to  max like you should do it and at times you should
986. 1:23:46do maximize profit, right? And the reason I did  that was because I was I was very I had a lot of
987. 1:23:50limiting beliefs when I first started making money  on Wrestle AI. I was like, "All right, tomorrow
988. 1:23:56the app's going to die. Tomorrow the app's going  to die. How many wrestlers are there? I'm going
989. 1:24:00to run out of wrestlers. I'm going to this and  I'm going to that." I think that was the biggest
990. 1:24:03thing that held me back. Yeah. Scarcity mindset.  Scarcity. Just think I thought I was going to run
991. 1:24:08out of wrestlers. That was I was like, "Oh, that's  it. I'm just going to run out of wrestlers." And
992. 1:24:11then I would have spent all the money to acquire  them and I would never make any more. I don't
993. 1:24:15know. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It doesn't really make  I was just like it was just like a fear. Right.
994. 1:24:19Right. It's natural. Now like that's why these  new apps I don't like before like a 50% margin
995. 1:24:26wouldn't like excite me. I would be like like a  50% uh like 2x rorowaz wasn't what I was aiming
996. 1:24:32for, right? Especially because I only had a,000  bucks. So at the time I needed more than a 2x row.
997. 1:24:37But then once I got money I would be like bro 2x  rorowaz then I'm losing this money. And then I'm
998. 1:24:40like what? Now that I understand like, okay, like  you should just try scaling things to be as big
999. 1:24:46as possible. Like now I 2x row, I'm like, all  right, dude. I'm going to scale this up until
1000. 1:24:50my CAC payback's like 90 days. Yeah. Especially  because I don't need the money now. Like I have
1001. 1:24:57money set aside. Like so like now that I'm leaving  this job, I literally set money to the side. This
1002. 1:25:02is what I'm going to live on. I have like this is  my like per my personal runway is like six months
1003. 1:25:07to a year. Yeah. Right. If I need need be, I'll go  to like Thailand and like you don't have to. No,
1004. 1:25:13what I'm saying is like any means necessary,  right? I don't care at all. Like I'm not even
1005. 1:25:18going to think about profit. I just want to make  the like I just want to grow the business to be
1006. 1:25:22as big as possible for these next six months.  Yeah. And the profit will come. Yeah. Any other
1007. 1:25:27tips of advice that you may have missed that  people should learn? It's really just don't
1008. 1:25:31have limiting beliefs and just keep like keep  doing different things until it works. Yeah. Like
1009. 1:25:35keep trying stuff. I always say test everything  except drugs. Yeah, exactly. That's my catchphrase
1010. 1:25:40on this. George, this has been amazing. This  is awesome. Where can people find you? Uh,
1011. 1:25:46I have a I have an X that I got post on sometimes.  Okay, we'll link to that. Cool. Thank you. Thank
1012. 1:25:51you. I've been dreaming about my first uh Inerson  podcast since I was first vibe coding my first
1013. 1:25:56app. This is what I was thinking about. I dude,  this is awesome. If you like this content, please
1014. 1:26:01share with a friend, hit a like or a comment  below, and we'll see you next time on the Kerner