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"They Sentenced Me to DEATH for My Teeth" | Ray Krone Interview | Murder Unscripted | E88 — Transcript

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0:00He took me back next door in that little
0:02room again and sat down. He banged his
0:04book on the table. Said, "Look, it's
0:05time to come clean. It's time to tell
0:06the truth. I know you didn't. Why don't
0:07you just started going off on me?" That
0:09was it. I was ready to fight. I told him
0:11what I thought of him, what I thought of
0:12the police department, why you wasted my
0:14time. I didn't kill her. I told you I
0:15didn't kill her. And by the way, your
0:16three hours are up. [music]
0:20>> It's Tuesday and you're listening to
0:22Murder on Script.
0:28My name's Ed and for the past two
0:29decades I've been producing true crime
0:31content for some of your favorite
0:32networks like Hulu, Oxygen, and of
0:34course, [music] Investigation Discovery.
0:36>> And I'm Melissa, Ed's bestie and walking
0:38talking true crime database.
0:40>> We've combined my behind-the-scenes
0:41insight with Melissa's morbid curiosity
0:44to bring you a podcast that immerses you
0:45in the true crime genre like never
0:47before. We highlight victim's cases and
0:49bring you [music] exclusive insights
0:50from the people who live through them
0:52with a touch of humor to lighten even
0:54the darkest stories. This is Murder
0:57Unscripted.
1:01[laughter]
1:11What is up, crime crew? Welcome to
1:12episode 88 of Murder Unscripted, the
1:15internet's most immersive true crime
1:17podcast. Or so we think.
1:19>> So you think.
1:20>> So I think, and my mom, she thinks so,
1:22too.
1:23>> I am your host, Ed Hydoc, along with my
1:25besty Melissa Spivey.
1:27>> Hey yo,
1:28>> well Melissa, we are in the fourth and
1:30final week of our January 2026 block,
1:33which has been about exonerations. And
1:35we've been calling this fresh starts.
1:37And I think you're going to see why
1:38after our guest today.
1:40>> Yeah, this has been a rough month. These
1:42cases have been rough. It's It's been a
1:45lot. It's It's been a sad month.
1:47>> It has. And I think a lot of that stems
1:49from the fact that, and we'll talk to
1:51our guest about this when he comes on,
1:53but the fact that when you go to look
1:55for these exoneration cases, I feel like
1:57the victim sometimes gets lost in all of
1:58this. Like obviously you have one victim
2:00who was wrongfully accused, but then you
2:01have a second victim who was murdered
2:03and maybe takes a backseat to the bigger
2:06story. Well, last week that story we're
2:08talking about, we covered the 1991
2:10murder of Kim Anona at the CBS lounge in
2:12Phoenix. And it's a case that resulted
2:14in one of the most disturbing wrongful
2:16convictions in American history. A man
2:18was sentenced to death, not just prison,
2:20death because of his crooked teeth.
2:23Supposedly, these matched these bite
2:24marks on the victim's body, and the
2:27press had labeled him the snaggletooth
2:28killer. He spent over a decade behind
2:31bars, which meant years of his life were
2:33stolen until DNA evidence proved what
2:35he'd been saying all along, that he was
2:37innocent.
2:38>> Mhm.
2:39>> And that case, ironically, was the very
2:42first case uh that I had ever covered in
2:44my true crime career. It was the
2:47>> That's wild.
2:48>> It's wild. It's the first phone call I
2:50ever made and I was so nervous when I
2:51picked up the phone because I was just
2:53handed the reigns to this story and
2:55haven't spoken to him since until today
2:57minus a couple emails. Uh but ladies and
2:59gentlemen, please welcome to Murder
3:00Unscripted, Ray Cone.
3:03>> Yay. Hi, Ray.
3:05>> Hi y'all.
3:06>> What's up, Ray?
3:07>> Doing okay here in East Tennessee.
3:09>> Had a boy. When did you move out there?
3:12>> Uh actually it was about uh 12 years.
3:142012 it was. So almost 13 years now I
3:16moved uh down here from Pennsylvania
3:19after vacating Arizona.
3:21>> Yeah, I hear that. What made you move?
3:24>> Uh you know I Pennsylvania where I grew
3:26up was my hometown. I went into service
3:28when I was young and lived a lot of
3:29different places. Never really lived
3:31back there. Um I I as soon as I was
3:33released in Arizona, moved back. Family,
3:35friends, people from school all settled.
3:38Most my whole family's there. Uh and you
3:41know, so it was a place to start over
3:42again. I had support place to live. You
3:45know, people offer me work.
3:47>> Um, but after years, you know, I was in
3:48the news all the time. You know, I don't
3:51want to say I was a celebrity, but
3:52people don't know what to say to you.
3:54You know, welcome back. Sorry for what
3:56happened. You know,
3:58>> it's terrible thing. Those kind of
3:59thing. Everywhere I went, I was
4:00scrutinized by the media, by, you know,
4:02people want me well. I didn't have no
4:04peace and quiet.
4:05>> And lastly, and probably most
4:07importantly, is it wasn't the country
4:08living that it used to be. the traffic,
4:10the the congestion, you know, the the
4:13expense of even living there. And I I
4:16Tennessee here in the Smoky Mountains,
4:18the people were great, the prices were
4:20fair, and I was able to find a wonderful
4:22piece of property right here on the lake
4:24that was that was, you know, uh secluded
4:27and separated, but you had good good
4:29neighbors that were, you know, down
4:31here, you had to have at least five
4:32acres to live in this lot. So, you know,
4:34you know, your neighbors don't right out
4:35your window or out your door,
4:37>> right? Right. So I really love the
4:38people the the tranquility that nobody
4:40knew me nobody knew my story. I come
4:42down here started hold I'm Ray Cone a
4:44guy that moved from Pennsylvania not Ray
4:46Cone death row survivor
4:47>> of course and then here I come be like
4:48let's drag this back out in the
4:49spotlight again. [laughter]
4:51>> Well it is part of my therapy honestly
4:53I've been doing it since I got out. I
4:54had the good fortune to meet up with
4:56sister Helen Prejan become part of a
4:58group called witness innocence. So
4:59helped helped found that with her. It
5:01was her idea. We've spoke all over the
5:03United States on death penaltya uh
5:06abolition cases talking to governments.
5:08I spoke at both United Nations in New
5:10York and Geneva. I've been down to DC
5:11testified. It's what I've done since uh
5:14if I had to go through those 10 years, 3
5:16months and eight days of prison, three
5:18of those on death row. It must have been
5:20a reason the Lord put me there. I had no
5:22record, no criminal record at all. I was
5:256 years active duty Air Force honorable
5:27discharged, seven years with the post
5:29office as a letter carrier. There's no
5:31reason to send me to death row. I used
5:32to believe in the death penalty. I found
5:34out that they lied about it. It's not
5:36the worst of the worst. It's being at
5:38the worst places of the worst. Only
5:40certain prosecutors seek it. Only big
5:41cities that can afford it. Uh the
5:44representation can't hardly afford a
5:46good attorney. Just a lot of things that
5:48that that I realized that I need to
5:50share my story with people. I was asked
5:51to share my story. I I was able to share
5:54my story. And as I say, that's that's
5:56part of my therapy saying there must
5:57have been a reason. Maybe that maybe the
5:58Lord put me there for for this reason to
6:00say that, you know, if they can do it to
6:01me, no offense, but they can do it to
6:03anybody.
6:04>> It's true. Like, you're a normal dude.
6:07Just a normal guy. You're from
6:08Pennsylvania. We're like just like we
6:09are like
6:10>> right when you you probably don't
6:11remember me. I was just setting stories
6:13up like I wasn't actually producing at
6:15that point. So, I was so nervous to call
6:17you and when I did and you were so just
6:20polite and that was cuz that was going
6:23back to 03. So I mean we weren't that
6:24terribly far from removed from the whole
6:26situation. What did it feel like to kind
6:28of be contacted again? Like have you
6:30ever done a podcast before?
6:31>> I would say yes. Again the new
6:33technology what they call podcasts and
6:35interviews and stuff uh even during co I
6:38would I I speak to a lot of
6:39universities, colleges, law schools, uh
6:42church groups. So just a lot of variety
6:44of different people that are interested
6:46in it. So I've had to do, you know,
6:48online stuff before Skypes and
6:51whatever the different things that there
6:53are. But as far as podcasts, I've sat in
6:55radio stations on radio shows. So I
6:58guess there's something similar that I
6:59did somewhere all these years.
7:01>> Yeah, that that counts.
7:04>> Well, not all of our listeners listen to
7:06every single episode. Like some may just
7:07tune in to hear your interview rather
7:10than listening to our coverage of the
7:12case. So kind of take us back to 1991.
7:14And I want you to tell our our listeners
7:16who Ray Cone was back then before all
7:18this happened.
7:19>> I think I if you don't mind, I'll take
7:21it back even a little bit further. I
7:23I'll go back to actually where I'm born
7:24and raised from a little town, Dover,
7:26Pennsylvania in York County, a small
7:29small agricultural town. I mean, I one
7:31of those small towns like you hear all
7:32the time where everybody knew everybody.
7:34I went to the same high school my grand
7:37my parents went to the same church my
7:39great great grandparents went to.
7:41>> Wow.
7:41>> I was in little league baseball, Pee-Wee
7:43football. I was in a church choir.
7:45Lutheran are all around here. We're
7:46German. And uh you know, I was uh
7:49reasonably athletic, but not not college
7:52bound athletic. I did good in school. I
7:54graduated in the top 15% of my high
7:56school. Uh but I ended up listed in the
7:58US Air Force at the age of 17 and and
8:01and when I graduated in 1974, I started
8:04my Air Force career, six years. I was an
8:06electronic computer system repair man.
8:07Worked on radar sites that they had used
8:09to have all along the coast.
8:10>> Wow. I went from Texas to Mississippi to
8:13Georgia to Maine and then to Phoenix,
8:15Arizona. My six years were up and I
8:17stayed out there. It was 1980. I I liked
8:19it out there was sun and fun as as a 23
8:2224 year old man. Plenty of work, plenty
8:25of things to do. Uh I ended up after a
8:27few years got a job at the US Postal
8:29Office. A great job, great career. I
8:31liked it. I was outside delivering mail,
8:33meeting people in that sunny weather.
8:35Bought my own home. Life was good. I was
8:37>> still involved with sports. I played
8:39volleyball. I was in the dart league. Uh
8:42I played pool. I played on a softball
8:44league. And that's really where my
8:47problems arose because the bar where
8:50this murder had happened was a bar that
8:51I recently started going to. Played the
8:53volleyball on a pickup volleyball team
8:56every weekend and also shot darts with a
8:58bartender. God bless you, Kim. And Kona,
9:01who was brutally murdered. I'd actually
9:02shot darts when I'd stopped. and it was
9:04halfway between my house and where I
9:05worked at the post office which was only
9:07actually about a mile and a half from my
9:09house. So, it was convenient and and
9:11that's how this all how I got involved
9:13in this.
9:14>> Interesting. One thing I wanted to get
9:16to the bottom of because there are
9:17definitely mixed reports and I went back
9:18and I watched the old forensic files
9:20episode just to refresh. I mean,
9:21obviously, but [laughter] like Hank
9:23Arondo, the owner of that bar, he was
9:25like, "Yeah, Ray Cro not a not a real
9:27well-liked guy. People didn't really
9:29care for him." And I don't I didn't
9:31What's your take on this? Well, of
9:33course, it's my side of the story, but I
9:34I'm not one to lie or exaggerate to be
9:36perfectly honest with you. I'd tell you
9:38that real simply. Harry, he only owned
9:40that bar for about two months. So, he
9:42didn't know me to begin with.
9:44>> I'd only started going to that bar
9:45because another bar that that I used to
9:46play a vol on Sundays. We'd have a
9:48pickup game, a group of people get
9:50together. We had we get a couple cases
9:51of beer from the bar. We'd go play
9:53volleyball at the local uh uh uh park
9:56there, city park, come back to the bar,
9:58and then we'd eat and drink the evening
10:00away and socialize. and it was a good
10:02good deal for the bar. And anyway, that
10:04bar closed up and a friend at this new
10:06bar, CBS Lounge, said, "Well, they'll do
10:08it there." And so, we started going
10:10there. I'd only been going to the bar a
10:11couple months myself, but I worked for
10:13the post office. I had a Corvette. I had
10:14a motorcycle. I had a boat. I had a lot
10:16of things. And this was a working man's
10:18bar, and no offense to people here, me
10:20and my friends come in. I was in the top
10:22league division, a dark shooter. I was a
10:24pretty good volleyball player,
10:25reasonably athletic. And so, uh, it just
10:28does rub some people the wrong way. M
10:30>> it wasn't why I was there to make
10:31friends with people. I was there because
10:33it was convenient again. I did have a
10:35dark board where I could shoot and uh
10:36and I didn't really know anybody when I
10:38started going there except the people I
10:39played volleyball with on Sundays. And
10:41uh to give you an example what kind of
10:43man this was. The owner
10:46>> Mhm.
10:46>> after after I was convicted of his
10:48death, his family filed a wrongful death
10:50suit uh trying to get workman's comp.
10:53>> He denied [clears throat] it. she
10:54allowed a person in there uh against the
10:57rules and denied his family all that
10:59money that would have been coming to her
11:00family. I just thought it was outrageous
11:02that he would make a claim like that,
11:04not try to help that family after their
11:05circumstances.
11:06>> Absolutely. Well, and what I would what
11:09I was kind of mentioning in my my intro
11:11was that when we we've done three
11:13exoneration cases this month and in each
11:15case we could find so little about the
11:17act the victim, the one who was murdered
11:18and it's sad. So, can you tell us about
11:21Kim? Yeah, Kim had worked there for for
11:24a few years. She was a regular bartender
11:26there. Um, just dependable, reliable,
11:29lived real nearby. She was living with a
11:31a fellow had a a couple teenage kids, I
11:34believe, a a a boy and a girl. I believe
11:36recently the manager who had been
11:38manager had a I guess argument or a
11:42trouble with the the manager or excuse
11:44me with the owner uh and and ended up
11:47being fired and he had asked him to take
11:49over within it was just a few days
11:50before her death and she was now the
11:52night manager. Uh again she deserved it.
11:54She was friendly. Everybody liked her.
11:56She actually had her dart team run.
11:57There was different divisions 1 through
11:59eight. And she was her her team was down
12:01in the lower division. But uh I when I'd
12:03stop in, she'd come over and want to
12:04shoot darts with her friends when she
12:05get off work. That was before she worked
12:08a night shift. But she was just a very
12:10dependable, likable person. Everybody
12:11liked her that I could tell. And again,
12:13I'd only been going there a few months.
12:14And again, I wasn't, you know, the
12:16social butterfly to everybody in there
12:17and knew everybody. It was just a few
12:19group few people that I knew and and a
12:21couple people that came in with me, my
12:23friends. I was trying to figure out what
12:25your actual relationship with Kim was
12:26like because some some were saying that
12:29you were I guess trying to date her or
12:31you weren't or you were just friends and
12:33like there was some back and forth.
12:35>> Well, what did the police need for their
12:36motive? What did the prosecutor need to
12:37get a conviction? It has to have a
12:39tiein. There has to be a reason,
12:40>> right?
12:41>> Uh none of it was true. Uh I knew her
12:43from the bar. Um she lived with a man.
12:47>> She lived with a man. She had two
12:49teenage children. Not that that mattered
12:51to me, that part of it, but it wasn't
12:53something I was interested. I wasn't
12:54looking for a girlfriend. She was nice.
12:56She's like, "Well, if any of you all
12:57know, you're going to a bar, you want to
12:59know the bartenders, you like to know
13:00the owner, you know, you like to be
13:02social with them. It helps with the way
13:03they treat you with your everything
13:05else." So, it really was just a typical
13:07thing with me. I went I played again a
13:10lot of bars from darts, from pool. Uh,
13:12it was just one of those things that,
13:14you know, I I I always was nice to the
13:16bartenders, man. I had I was I was
13:18fortunate enough to be able to tip well
13:20enough not not to be buying anything,
13:23not to be, you know, trying to solicit
13:25anything,
13:26>> but I was just like that. And again,
13:28that rubs some people the wrong way. It
13:29was just um you know, I wasn't in your
13:32face kind of guy, but maybe in a way
13:33that was even worse to them because I
13:35wasn't like that. So people, some of the
13:37people did talk. I did have a problem
13:38with one of the bartenders that would
13:40always kind of give me a hard time when
13:41I want to come in. And she's the one
13:43that told the police that Kim told her
13:45that I was coming in to close up,
13:47>> which is what they first got on to me
13:49because they they originally after they
13:52found her body uh talked to their the
13:54co-workers and one of them said that Ray
13:56Cone was coming in to close up that Kim
13:58liked him
13:59>> and that's where this all started. They
14:00build the story from there because again
14:02that helps build that motive that helps
14:04give them a case
14:05>> which is so messed up.
14:07>> That was actually my next question. What
14:10was happening that night? because
14:11investigators claimed you and Kim had
14:14plans whereas you've always said that
14:17wasn't true and I believe your roommate
14:18backed you up. So we I wondered where
14:20that story came from. But what had
14:23actually happened that day if you
14:24remember now this was over over the
14:25Christmas holiday breaks. This was a
14:27couple days before actually December
14:2929th. Uh it was it was a Saturday night.
14:33I had to work that Saturday post office.
14:35Friday night the night before was a
14:36Christmas party. I was young when I was
14:3934 years old. I was up late, had to go
14:41to work at the post office, delivered my
14:42mail, got off work, went home. We're
14:44watching football games. I got picked up
14:46a pizza. There at that actual next door,
14:48I picked up a pizza. There's a pizza
14:49place in this little strip mall where
14:51the bar was. I picked up a pizza, waited
14:53for that pizza, had a beer, got the
14:55pizza, went home, and we ate pizza. My
14:57friends, a couple of my friends were
14:58crashed out on the floor when I went to
14:59work in the morning. And uh anyway, when
15:01I got home that Saturday afternoon with
15:03the pizza, we stayed there. We watched
15:04football. I went to bed about 9:00. I
15:06was so tired from the night before his
15:08festivities. I never got up till the
15:10next morning. My roommate Steve was
15:11there. He knows I never left. He was
15:13home there. I mean, he he swore to the
15:16cops. I never left. After my arrest,
15:19they sent a person they called a a a
15:21alibi buster over a policeman who kept
15:23badgering and bad. Well, how do you know
15:24he didn't leave? Well, his car is right
15:25out. Well, did you see him all night
15:27long? No. I do sleep in the same room.
15:29All that kind of stuff kept going on on
15:31so you don't really know that he was in
15:32his room. Well, I guess not, but I'm
15:34sure he was kind of thing. And then they
15:35they go back and say, "Well, Steve
15:37couldn't verify his his that he was
15:38there."
15:39>> That kind of stuff that that they pull,
15:41which again to me as never happened to
15:43deal with the justice. I could not
15:45believe that people act like that,
15:46especially somebody that's supposed to
15:47be about justice, about the truth, about
15:49protecting their citizens. Uh and and
15:51again, to keep this in mind, folks, uh I
15:54was arrested two days after the murder,
15:56>> you know, so it wasn't they didn't have
15:57a case. They build a case afterwards.
15:59They had to have things fit when stuff
16:00didn't line up. That had to be quite a
16:02shock to learn that this bar you were
16:04just partying at, having a great time,
16:06talking with Kim and stuff. And then
16:08then you when do you hear the news?
16:10>> It was 1:00 that Sunday. Um I had my dog
16:13was outside a big Doberman. He doesn't
16:15bark much. When he does, I paid
16:17attention. I got up and looked out the
16:18window and there was a car just pulled
16:19up in front of my neighbor's house. Now
16:20we're in a development uh in in the city
16:23there. The houses are pretty close
16:24together. Had a common driveway, parking
16:26area there. uh a car had pulled up in
16:28front of my neighbor's house looking out
16:30when two men's suits got out. By the
16:32time I got outside and let my door in
16:33from the carport and my carport was
16:35blocked off with a with a gate there so
16:37the dog couldn't get out to the street
16:38but they were walking up my driveway and
16:40I stepped out. I said, "Excuse me. Can I
16:42help you?" And one man said, "Yes, are
16:44you Ray Cron?" I said, "Yes, what can I
16:45do for you?" And right away he said, "Do
16:47you know Kim and Kona?"
16:50No, I don't think I know anybody named
16:51Kim and Cona. He looked at the guy next
16:53to him back at me. He said, "You don't
16:54know Kim and Coner from the CBS lounge."
16:56I said, "Well, wait a minute. I I go to
16:58a bar, you know, CBS lounge. I I shoot
17:00darts there." I said, "There's a girl
17:01there named Kim that works here." I
17:02said, "Yeah, why would you know her last
17:04name?" "Yeah, I didn't I didn't know her
17:06last name." I said, "I don't know her
17:07last name." He looks, "You don't know
17:08her last name. You're a boyfriend,
17:09aren't you?" I said, "No, I'm not a
17:11boyfriend. What are you talking about?"
17:12He said, "Well, you're dating her,
17:13aren't you?" I said, "No, I'm not dating
17:15her. What is this about?"
17:16>> That story came together so quickly
17:18against you. At that at that point, he
17:20bumped up his jacket, actually pulled
17:21out a badge and identified himself as a
17:23homicide detective and informed me right
17:25then that Kim had been murdered and was
17:27there to ask me a few questions. I said,
17:29"Sure, come on inside." He said, "No, we
17:31really need to do this downtown if you
17:33don't mind." And they loaded me in a
17:34black and white police car and took me
17:35down to the police station for the next
17:36three hours. Grilled me. First of all,
17:39you don't get a chance to even absorb
17:41the news that somebody like I think for
17:42me that would be a big deal if I was at
17:43a bar the night before and and did have
17:45a friendly relationship with a bartender
17:46that I knew and I found out she was
17:48murdered. That would be a big shock. But
17:50you don't even have time to like absorb
17:51that because now you're being dragged
17:52down to the station.
17:53>> Absolutely. And it it was again and it
17:55took a while for that shock to because
17:57now the shock is the way they were
17:58questioning me about this boyfriend.
17:59He's like, "Where did you get something
18:00like that from?" No. You know, and I
18:03went when at the police station I mean I
18:04was I was uh they took my mug shots.
18:07They took fingerprints of me. They had
18:08me take my shirt off. Took pictures of
18:10my torso looking for any type of wounds.
18:12There were none. They took my sneakers
18:13at one point. Uh, another point they had
18:15a piece of styrofoam kind of like off a
18:17insulated coffee cup taped together. Had
18:19me bite into that. I didn't know what
18:21was going on. They didn't feed me any
18:22information. I just answered the
18:24questions. You know, how long you've
18:25been dating? How many times you've been
18:26over to your house? You've been over to
18:27her. All was No, no, I've dating her.
18:30She's never been to my house. I would
18:31see her at the bar. That was it. you
18:33know, and it, like I say, went on for
18:35three hours and they finally took me
18:36home.
18:37>> Wow. When you're sitting there biting
18:39into a styrofoam cup, are you just like,
18:41"What the hell is going on here?"
18:43>> Again, I'm not 18, 19 year old kid. I'm
18:4534, almost about to be 35. My birthday
18:47is in January. Uh, you know, so I was
18:49about to be 35 years. Yeah. This this
18:50this is not something I'm used to even
18:53as an older adult. You know, I don't
18:55watch this stuff on television. You
18:57know, I I was completely stunned and
18:59flabbergasted like, well, just let's
19:00just get this over with because, you
19:02know, you need to go find who did this
19:03kind of thing.
19:04>> But afterwards, then I left her. I I'm
19:06I'm stunned. You know, why the stuff
19:09that they had already in two or three
19:11hours already believed a boyfriend and I
19:13was dating her and stuff like that.
19:14Where would you come? Who would say
19:16something?
19:16>> Yeah. Who's
19:18talking to me?
19:20>> Not people that don't like me.
19:22>> Oh my god. You probably had no idea that
19:23that little styrofoam cup would change
19:25your life. Yeah, I found out because
19:28actually then the next day more things
19:30came together. Uh because the next day
19:33that was a Monday now um I delivered my
19:35mail. I come home and and uh there was
19:38Detective Gregory come right right at
19:39the door there said uh you know you I'm
19:41not sure you've been completely
19:42truthful. You want to cooperate, don't
19:43you, Mr. Cron? I said, "Well, sure. What
19:45what do you need me to cooperate with?"
19:47And you know, kind of stumbled around
19:48with my words, looking at him there at
19:50the front door. And he said, "Well, I
19:52want to eliminate you as a suspect. I
19:53needed to come downtown and and with me
19:55and answer a few more questions. I
19:57agreed again. I volunteered. No question
19:59asked. This time I got in his detective
20:01car on Mark car and rode down there that
20:03same old interrogation room. Only this
20:05time when I stepped in, as soon as I
20:06stepped inside that door, he said, "Oh
20:08yeah, by the way, I got a search warrant
20:10here and you're going to give me a hair
20:12sample, a blood sample to cast your
20:14teeth."
20:14>> Now I freaked out a little bit. Now I
20:16got a little angry. I felt a little this
20:18is a little aggressive. This is a
20:19little, you know, frightening here. He
20:22just, you know, and I he let me see it.
20:24They let me read it. I read it was
20:25signed by a judge. Said they had three
20:27hours to do all this. And so I
20:29cooperated. I cooperated. He took blood
20:32out of both arms. I'm not sure he didn't
20:34realize it's going to be the same.
20:36>> It's the same circuit. Yeah.
20:38>> Cooperated. They took hair. They do not
20:40take hair with scissors.
20:41>> No. They pull it out by the roots from
20:44different parts of your body.
20:45>> Mhm.
20:46>> I cooperated through that
20:48>> because you were innocent. Then they
20:50took me next door, had a bigger room set
20:53up with a dentist chair in there and
20:54another man in there sat me down this
20:55dentist chair. Had had me laid back, had
20:58this apparatus in my mouth, spreading my
20:59teeth apart and gripping me and put this
21:02metal cast of with goop in. Took two
21:04cast my upper and two cast my lower and
21:07spread my lips around, taking pictures
21:08and asking me questions about my
21:09history, my dentition. And back when I
21:12was 18 years old in the Air Force, I was
21:13in a head-on collision, passenger
21:15head-on collision. Woke up in the
21:16hospital with my mouth wired shut, a
21:18broken jaw.
21:19>> Wow. Six weeks went by, the wires came
21:21off the bottom jaw and the top jaw
21:23didn't line up anymore. They had to go
21:25in take part of the bone out of my
21:26bottom jaw, wear my mouth shut again for
21:28another six weeks. So, I went 12 weeks
21:30without really any real dental
21:32assistance there. So, I had some teeth
21:34that that had died. I had to have get
21:35some root canal, some bridge work done,
21:37permanent bridge work done. So, I was
21:39always careful with my teeth since I was
21:4018 years old. I mean, I wasn't eating
21:41corn in the cob. I wasn't eating apple,
21:44>> fresh apples. And here they were poking
21:45around in my mouth for about two two and
21:47a half hours. Wow.
21:50>> Finally that was over. I I mean I was I
21:53was wore out and I he took me back next
21:55door in that little room again and sat
21:56down. He banged his book on the table.
21:58Said, "Look, it's time to come clean.
21:59It's time to tell the truth. I know you
22:00didn't. Why don't you just started going
22:02off on me?" That was it. I was ready to
22:04fight. I told him what I thought of him,
22:05what I thought of the police department,
22:06why you wasted my time. I didn't kill
22:08her. I told you I didn't kill her. And
22:09by the way, your three hours were up.
22:12He looked at me down at his watch. He
22:14just said, "Look, Mr. Cron, I'm not
22:16going to argue with you. There's other
22:17ways to handle this.
22:19loaded up his stuff, took me out in his
22:20car, drove me home the 15-minute drive,
22:22and that's never said a word to him. I
22:25thought that was it.
22:27I found out what he meant by other ways
22:28to handle this. The next day, December
22:3031st, 1991, New Year's Eve, 4:00, I'm
22:34pulling into my driveway, just stepping
22:36out of my car. All of a sudden, I hear
22:38the screech, the towers of bullhorn
22:39yelling, "Freeze, don't move. was a van
22:40loaded full of police officers. Full
22:42ride gear, guns drawn, bailed on me,
22:45threw me down, handcuffed me, and
22:46arrested me for murder, kidnapping, and
22:47sexual assault. New Year's Eve, 4:00,
22:50took me to Maricopa County Jail. Joe
22:52Araio's famous goolog. Took me to Joe
22:54Araio's place on New Year's Eve. Never
22:57been to jail, never been to prison.
22:58Didn't watch that stuff on TV. And I was
23:01around a whole lot of people I knew I
23:02was not going to like.
23:04>> Do you hate New Year's Eve now?
23:06>> Hate's a strong word. If I can't even
23:08hate feel hate for the prosecutor and
23:10the detective, it it brings back
23:12memories. Everyone, believe me, and I
23:14know it's 7:00 Eastern Standard Time
23:16when I was arrested out in Arizona. Uh
23:18it does bring back memories, but but
23:20yeah, that was that was my New Year's
23:21Eve of 1992 going in or ' 91 going into
23:26' 92.
23:27>> Wow. So, when they claimed that your
23:30teeth were a 100% match, what was your
23:34immediate reaction? Like how did it feel
23:36hearing that?
23:38>> Well, it's impossible. You're full of
23:39you know what and you know I started I'm
23:41in the county jail time when I finally
23:43got a courtapp appointed attorney to
23:45represent me. But I was biting into
23:46sandwiches and looking at this thing. I
23:48was biting into my skin to see what kind
23:50of marks it was. Um you know just stuff
23:53is like this is ridiculous. You know
23:55they'll straighten us out anyhow because
23:56there's no way I wasn't there at that
23:59time. There has to be some evidence. I
24:01was home in bed. Nobody ever seen me
24:02leave. I got a Corv bed. I had a truck.
24:04I mean, you would have heard her seen me
24:05leave and you know uh this this will be
24:08all right. I'll be going home any
24:09minute. And then it turned into days.
24:10Then it turned into weeks and then
24:12months and then just seven months after
24:14my arrest, I'm at trial.
24:16>> Wow.
24:16>> Well, I the the thing that has always
24:18struck me about this case from day one
24:20of all the teeth of all the people that
24:21could have done this in the world, it
24:23happened to be somebody who had a
24:24similar mouth to what you had at the
24:26time.
24:27>> Yes. It's all really was. And again,
24:29when you hear a bite mark, what are you
24:30going to think of? like when you bite
24:31into a sandwich and you got a nice
24:33perfect curve and you know you got 32
24:35teeth. No, there was actually I think no
24:37more than about six teeth or so that
24:39this dentist identified as matching
24:40mine. But but I had a unique tooth
24:42because of the result of that that
24:44accident that I said I was in. One of my
24:46front tooth, the very middle front tooth
24:48had started dropping down lower than the
24:50other bridge work around it. So it was
24:52actually a little bit longer than the
24:53rest of the teeth. U and that's the one
24:56that that they used to identify uh me
24:59originally. this local medical examiner.
25:01And by the way, that man that was was in
25:03the dentist chair when I said I was
25:04being questioned. He was a local medical
25:07examiner. He was a dentist by trade. He
25:09was also being trained to be a forensic
25:11odintologist, but he was not board
25:13certified, so he could not testify. But
25:15he's the one who got the arrest warrant
25:17identified and said it was my teeth.
25:19>> Unreal.
25:20>> What did your family and friends think?
25:22Were they behind you the whole time
25:23100%? Or was there doubt in their mind
25:25like they just arrested him, they got
25:26these teeth that kind of looked the
25:28same? maybe he did do it
25:29>> again. I was 35 years old. My family
25:32knew me. My friends knew me. Uh I've
25:33been around a lot of people for a lot of
25:35years. And so I was very very fortunate
25:37because that's it. I only had to tell my
25:38family once I didn't do this. They
25:40believe me. Now they're 2500 miles away
25:41in Pennsylvania. I was able to make a
25:43phone call to my sister. I believe she
25:44passed it on. Eventually my folks were
25:46able to come visit me. But my local
25:48friends that knew me was no way they
25:50knew I didn't do it. My friend Steve
25:52knew I was home bed. U so I I was very
25:55fortunate. I had the support there. And
25:57again, having played sports, you know,
25:58if I got a team around me, I don't want
26:00to let them down. So, it's like, I'll be
26:01okay. Everything's all right. People
26:03come see me. No, I'm all right.
26:05>> Yeah.
26:05>> You know, and then even after getting
26:07convicted, it's like, no, I'll be okay.
26:08And I get sent to death and I I'll be
26:10okay. But the folks kept fighting for
26:11me. But I'll tell you a little story
26:14that that'll give you an example.
26:17>> I'm on death row. I get a letter
26:20again. I'm in the papers back in
26:21Pennsylvania now. I get a letter from my
26:23seventh grade English teacher. He sends
26:25her there. He said, "I don't believe any
26:26of this." He said, "I remember for you
26:28from school. You were more of a cutup,
26:29you know." He said, "You're more of a
26:30kind of Oh, not not quite a class
26:32clown." He said, "But you were trying to
26:33be." He said, "And you're very sharp,
26:35intelligent." He said, "You'd always had
26:36to be the first one done turn in your
26:38questions, and you'd always get one or
26:39two wrong." He said, "Cuz you'd hurry."
26:41He said, "I don't believe any of this at
26:43all." You know, and and I wrote him a
26:44letter back thanking him and, you know,
26:46a little bit about the story. I got the
26:48letter back in about a week or two with
26:50red correction marks on my letter.
26:52[laughter]
26:53>> That's awesome.
26:56But that was about 1969
26:5868 somewhere in there when I was in
27:00seventh grade that he wrote me and did
27:01not believe it.
27:03>> It didn't take long for people to the
27:05big headline. Snaggletoothoth killer
27:07like that had to be something that that
27:09kind of hurt you emotionally and your
27:11family and your friends as well to hear
27:12something like this.
27:13>> It was fortunate in a way if there's any
27:16things that turned out to be better than
27:17worse was was that it was not my
27:19family's hometown that my family and
27:21friends weren't I have friends there. I
27:23I lived in Phoenix by that time about 11
27:2612 years I believe almost by then. Um so
27:28it was fortunate at least my family
27:30wasn't around people that that were the
27:31ones the haters the the believers that
27:34thought I would I could do that
27:35>> that my family wasn't subject that and
27:37back in Pennsylvania back in my small
27:39town. Everybody supported me. Again the
27:41these parents went to school with my
27:43parents. I went to school with their
27:45kids. They knew who my family was. They
27:47knew who I was and and so my family had
27:49the support that they needed back there.
27:51Uh, and again, obviously it would be
27:53harder, way harder on your mom than on
27:55your dad.
27:56>> But not that not that it's any lesser,
27:58but it's just the way mama's boy,
28:00daddy's girl kind of thing goes.
28:01>> Yeah.
28:02>> But but uh my my and I'm the oldest in
28:05my family, so I'm I had a younger
28:06brother, younger sister, but
28:07>> but uh they they they believed me. I
28:10didn't have to tell them again. I didn't
28:11have to repeat that. It was not a
28:12question of convincing them. Uh now it
28:14was a a question of of consoling them or
28:17allowing them to say, "Look, I'll be
28:19okay. Don't worry. I'll be all right. I
28:20didn't do this and it'll work out one
28:22day. And that took a whole lot of
28:24praying.
28:25>> Well, you're you're a tough guy and but
28:27as tough as the the front that you had
28:29to put on for the people around you,
28:31what did it feel like to be not just in
28:34prison, but then to know that you're not
28:36getting out and to know it's death, like
28:38a death sentence.
28:40>> Well, you you do a lot of soulsearching
28:42and introspect. Why me, Lord, what did I
28:44do deserve this? My mom did send the
28:45Bible in. I was able to read it front to
28:47back three times, three and a half times
28:49actually during those 10 years. Slept
28:51with it under my pillow. I found
28:52strength in the stories of Job and
28:54Jonah, you know, passages. Out of the
28:56darkness shall come the light. Rejoice
28:58in trials and tribulation where you used
29:00to find favor sight of the Lord.
29:02>> There had to be a way to keep keep your
29:04head up. And again, as being a team
29:05player, as being a sports player, it's
29:06like my team believes in me. I can't
29:08give up for them. No, I'm mom. I'm okay
29:10now. My friends will come visit from
29:11Phoenix and make a 2-hour drive down
29:13there to see me and, you know, have to
29:15go through visitation, the shakedowns,
29:17the searches, the the the clanging of
29:19the of the cell doors, the the
29:21atmosphere, the smells to come and visit
29:23me.
29:24>> You know, I say I, you know, again,
29:27while they're happy to see that, I think
29:28they were
29:30happy to see me afterwards. Was it worth
29:32the drive? Was it, you know, we can
29:33write? We You don't have to come
29:35[clears throat] visit me. you know, as
29:36nice as it was, it was just things that
29:38that I realized that I didn't do this.
29:40Lord knows I didn't do this. My Finn
29:42knows I did this. Somehow we're going to
29:44have to get the court system why they
29:46didn't do this. And after all the
29:48>> Wow.
29:48>> The way it went at trial, I mean, my
29:50first trial was just three and a half
29:51days. And three of those days was the
29:53prosecution of their lying. You know, a
29:55bite mark expert said my bite my teeth
29:57were unique and that that bite marks are
29:59as individualized as fingerprints. And
30:01he's absolutely sure that my that bite
30:02mark happened at the time of death. And
30:04that made me ray cron to murder. I mean
30:06a very impressive, you know, he was a
30:08the dean of the UNLB dental school. He
30:11was a state senator from Las Vegas, an
30:13elder of the Morland vet, you know,
30:16pages and pages long. Very well spoken,
30:18powerful, convincing speaker.
30:20>> Uh, you know, was sure that I was a
30:22killer.
30:23>> And I knew how wrong he was. I know how
30:25the prosecutor treated me when I got on
30:26the stand and answered the questions
30:28from my attorney. And that prosecutor
30:29came up and started cross-examining me.
30:31So, you deny killing Kevin and Conan. I
30:32said, "Yes, I do." "You denied being at
30:33the CBS lounge." I said, "What night?"
30:35"The night you killed her, of course,
30:36Mr. Cron and just told me I mean, after
30:39two and a half hours of
30:39cross-examination, when I come down off
30:41that stand, I almost went over and sat
30:43down next to him." You know, it was that
30:45bad. So I just didn't still wasn't
30:49convinced that the system that I
30:50believed in the justice system that I
30:52was far away from until now that I'm
30:54right in the middle of sitting in the
30:56middle of a circle that it can't be this
30:58bad that it can't be forever and I got
31:00to hold myself together and again that
31:01that B was a big part of but the
31:03strength of my family and friends
31:04believing me made made the difference
31:07and I was going to hold on as long as it
31:08took
31:09>> sure
31:10>> unfortunately
31:15Yes. [laughter]
31:17>> What is prison like, Ray? Like what is
31:19you always hear three three square meals
31:20in a cot. That's what you always hear.
31:22But what
31:22>> it's not a country I I I'll give you a
31:24description of my cell. I mean it was it
31:26was about 6 by8. I could stand and and
31:28touch both walls. All concrete uh the
31:32typical as you see on TV stainless steel
31:35bathroom commode sink combination. Steel
31:38bars in the front with a sliding door
31:40there. had a had a trap about four or
31:43five inches tall and about 18 in wide.
31:45That's that's where they fed you through
31:47and and I never got a hot meal on death
31:49row. You don't let people on death row
31:50work in the kitchen. Not with all the
31:52the potential weapons that are in there.
31:53Our school was prepared in another yard,
31:55put in carts and wheeled over and sat in
31:57the hallways till they felt like feeding
31:58us. You can see the carts sitting out
32:00there.
32:01>> I had a cement slab for a bed, a cement
32:03slab for a table. I got one army
32:06blanket, one sheet, and one towel. I
32:08wrapped my towel around my sneakers.
32:10That was my pillow. I got uh three pairs
32:13of underwear, three pairs of socks, and
32:15two sets of of jumpers. Uh so we'd wash
32:18our clothes in the sink. I got out of
32:19that cell three times a week. Monday,
32:21Wednesday, Friday was wreck day. They
32:23come to your cell. Um you know, you'd
32:25have to strip down completely everything
32:27off. Uh then turn and twist and bend,
32:30make sure you weren't hiding anything
32:31anywhere in your naked body. Uh they
32:34they pat your clothes down, pass it in
32:35through that trap, that hole in the
32:37door. Again, you'd get dressed right in
32:38front of them, stick your arms out
32:40through, they put a a pair of handcuffs
32:43on you that had a belt attached. You'd
32:45get handcuffed, then turn around, and
32:46that belt would be fastened out your
32:47waist so you couldn't move your hands
32:48any further than your pockets. Uh they
32:51then would march to a man outside the
32:52door, another guard. It would open up
32:54the door for this officer, let you out
32:56there. You take one step out away from
32:58your door, turn, and take one step away
32:59from the guard and freeze. And you
33:01better do it just like that, like
33:02military. If you don't, it's attempted
33:04escaped or attempted assault. That guard
33:06will grab the belt and kick your legs
33:07out and fl you right there. If you don't
33:09move exactly slow and easy away from him
33:11and freeze at that point, they pat you
33:14down again to make sure you didn't hide
33:15anything in the last minute. You got
33:16dressed in front of him. And then there
33:18was about an 18-inch long chain put
33:20around your ankles with two big locks on
33:22it. At that point, then they would
33:23motion to the other guard. He would come
33:24in and get with this guard and escort
33:27you out to a little chained in area. It
33:29was a 10-ft square cement slab. had
33:3210-ft hurricane fencing all around it,
33:34sides and top. You were put in there. It
33:36had a basketball hoop, a a basketball, a
33:39little makeshift bench uh weight machine
33:42like thing. A real real cheap cheesy.
33:44Nothing came loose. It was all
33:46mechanically I was just that was really
33:49juryrigged.
33:50>> And you were in there for the next two
33:51hours. That was the only days you got a
33:53shower. Monday, Wednesday, Friday went
33:55to wreck. But but I was outside. I mean,
33:57maybe I'd I'd see an airplane fly over.
34:00Maybe hear a car horn honk, a lawn
34:01mower, a dog bark, something remind me
34:03that world was going for me.
34:04>> The world exists, right?
34:06>> Yeah.
34:06>> The irony I feel like is that people who
34:09make a living doing bad things have to
34:11expect this kind of treatment. Like
34:12they've been in jail several times. They
34:14know what to expect. They know to follow
34:15the rules, but this whole time you're
34:17being thrown into this world where you
34:18didn't do anything wrong.
34:20>> Oh my god.
34:21>> It's a funny thing then, too. At a
34:23certain point, there's no use going
34:24around saying I'm innocent. I mean, I
34:25didn't say I I was guilty, but but the
34:27inmates don't need to hear it. I'm not
34:28going anywhere. Mars don't care. No,
34:30nobody really cares. So, it's like I was
34:32I was again fortunate. I was in county
34:34jail with a man. I was about a month
34:36ahead of me going through a trial for
34:37the murder of his wife that that they
34:39knew who killed her, but they said that
34:41he put her up to it. I talked with him.
34:43He was just a little bit older than me.
34:44Uh but again, I believed he was innocent
34:46just the way his feelings, the way he
34:47expressed how they treated him, what
34:48they said, things that I I felt and
34:50seen. And uh he got to death row just a
34:54month or two before me. after about a
34:56year there, he was working at the law
34:57library and and ended up getting me a
34:59job to the law library. So now because
35:00the rest of the time you spend in
35:02yourself, you never get out of yourself
35:03for anything but but th those three
35:05hours of wreck if you get a visit. Uh
35:07you could get out uh you and you could
35:08get a phone call twice a month for 15
35:11minutes for $15 it cost your family back
35:13in 1992 93.
35:15>> Wow.
35:16>> Sure.
35:17>> So I I I read a live we did get a TV if
35:20you could afford it. It's not cable TV,
35:22folks. Let me tell you about that. It's
35:24not cable TV. You can't have a TV with
35:26antennas on it. My guy.
35:29>> So, our TVs did have a cable that
35:31plugged into the wall, but it went up to
35:33antenna on the roof and we got like four
35:35or five channels that they cabled into
35:37us. You know, it was Walt Disney and PBS
35:39and a news channel or something. But,
35:42uh, but, you know, so I read a lot uh uh
35:44books. I I I worked out with weights.
35:47I'd fill up a trash bag with with water
35:50uh until they ended up take poking holes
35:52in the bags. Uh, I used my my laundry
35:54bag with law books so that I had I was
35:56able to study my case and and and learn
35:58about the law that that put me in there,
36:00the rules and regulations, things that
36:02were were done right or wrong. Uh, and
36:05pass my time that way, writing letters
36:06and and reading. And again, after a year
36:09or so down there, I was able to work at
36:10a law library, which at least got me out
36:12of my cell each day to go up to the law
36:13library and and and work with other
36:15inmates. Now, I still was separated, but
36:18I wasn't handcuffed anymore. where I had
36:19a little bit of freedom to walk around
36:20in the law book library area working
36:23with the books and helping other other
36:25people and and I tell you an amazing
36:26story that um again you don't talk much
36:29about your case but I became a legal rep
36:31helping represent guys would get get
36:32dispar action in there that I would be
36:34like their little lawyer for before
36:36officer
36:37>> and I got called out this one day to one
36:40>> to have a legal visit with this guy and
36:42I was reading his letters for his mom
36:44from his mom these different you were
36:46only allowed to have these once a month
36:48but anyway had been reading the letters
36:49from his mom to him because he couldn't
36:51read or write. And then I was I was up
36:52writing letters to his mom. I've been
36:54doing this for about six, eight months.
36:56And finally one day we got talking about
36:57his case. He was in there for signing a
37:00confession. A man that I know for a fact
37:02can't read or write because I'm writing
37:04letters to his mom.
37:05>> Yeah.
37:06>> So this person can be signed a
37:08confession.
37:09>> Could have said anything.
37:10>> It did. Yeah.
37:12So again, there's and again that's a
37:15because I'm such a special person, but
37:16you all you we all find ways to survive
37:18or to make the best of something. I
37:20thought, you know, how bad is my
37:22situation? Here's another person here. I
37:24mean, and and the more I worked with
37:25other people, there were there were
37:27people that didn't have family to
37:28support. There were people that didn't
37:29have anybody cared about. There was ways
37:31to survive. There was ways to to find a
37:33way to get up and get and do it again.
37:35Same thing again tomorrow and the next
37:36day and the day after that. Well, and
37:38you you brought up an interesting point
37:40that led me into a question that I was
37:41going to ask you, and that's when you're
37:43when you're in this situation that seems
37:45endless. It seems hopeless. Like you
37:46said, you even stopped preaching that
37:48that you're innocent. Behind the scenes,
37:51what are you doing in prison to try to
37:53especially when you know you're innocent
37:55to try to like build a case, build a
37:56defense? Do you study on your own like
37:58you said you did? Are you talking to
38:00lawyers all all day every day trying to
38:02like formulate a plan to get out of
38:03here?
38:04>> Yeah. Again, I was in Arizona. I can't
38:06speak for all the other places. Some
38:07might have been better, but some might
38:09have well been worse. I don't know. I
38:11don't know much about the justice
38:12system. Again, it took a year and a
38:13half. My first biggest thing was just to
38:15be able to get along to be able to
38:16survive to make sure that you know our
38:19prisons are first off our prisons are
38:20racist.
38:22>> You're white, you stay with the whites.
38:23You're black, you stay with the blacks,
38:24Hispanic, you stay with the Hispanics.
38:26There's, you know, now on death row was
38:28a little less so because we were all
38:29facing the same
38:31>> sure
38:31>> ending. [clears throat] Uh but but you
38:34you had to know the etiquette, the
38:37rules, the laws of prison. Incredibly,
38:40these people are in there for breaking
38:42society's laws, but they had their own
38:43set of prison rules, their own set of of
38:45ethics, their own violations in there,
38:48and you would get stuck. You would get
38:49killed. I I I've seen stabbing. I've
38:51stabbed at times, not not on death row,
38:53but my point was that first and
38:55foremost, you better learn about what
38:56the environment that you're living in.
38:58Uh because you got to live there first
39:00before you can ever fight to get out.
39:01And if people can't get along in in jail
39:04with the other people, if you can't get
39:05along in prison with people that are
39:06going to be there the rest of their
39:07lives, you're not going to have much of
39:09a life. So, first it was learning how to
39:12how to survive the prison ethics, the
39:14prison rules, the prison laws. I never
39:17met the lawyer that represented me for
39:19my appeal. I had talked to him on the
39:21phone, had letter letters from him, but
39:24>> he was courtappointed, right?
39:25>> Yeah. All all they do is take take the
39:27court record, you know, the the the the
39:29proceedings that were recorded by the
39:32stenographer and and read through it and
39:34see what what and and if you have a
39:35lawyer that objects to things and and
39:37and questions things, uh then there is
39:40stuff to review. If your lawyer don't
39:41object to anything or doesn't, you know,
39:43make any requests or anything, uh
39:45there's no nothing for this man to
39:47review and appeal. Well, let me let me
39:49just tell you how how how I met my very
39:52first attorney in p in jail actually
39:54before I even got convicted. Let let me
39:56just tell you that story quick. I was
39:57I'd probably been in the county jail
39:59there for about two months. I got called
40:01out to a legal visit. Typical legal
40:03visit where you go out, you're in a
40:04glass room, you got a a phone there, you
40:06know, I picked up the phone, a lady came
40:08in, set a briefcase down, introduced
40:10herself as repres representative from
40:12the public defender's office, said she
40:14was there to represent me on murder,
40:15kidnapping, and sexual assault. And then
40:17she said, "You can expect to be found
40:19guilty, but we're going to fight this on
40:20appeal." I went crazy. What do you mean
40:22found guilty? It was so bad. As I
40:24started going off, she got the phone
40:26held away from her ear. God,
40:28>> I calm down a little bit. She picked up
40:29the phone back up. She said, "Listen,
40:30Mr. Cone, I'm going to tell you
40:31something. I'm going to take that tun
40:33voice from the judge. I don't take it
40:34from the prosecutor, and I'm certainly
40:36not going to take it from you." Hung up
40:37the phone, the briefcase, and left. I
40:39never seen her again. That was the end
40:41of I got a certified letter later on
40:44within a week or so from the public
40:45defenders office citing a conflict
40:47interest. They said she was they were
40:49being removed from my case. The next
40:51most likely suspect was a victim's
40:53ex-husband. They had a they had a
40:55teenage daughter. It was her birthday
40:56party. He did something inappropriate
40:58with one of the little girls and was
40:59arrested for it. Rightfully so, I say.
41:01And they were representing him. And I
41:03was told in this letter that I was going
41:04to get a courtappoint attorney. I
41:06thought, great, right on. Now I'm going
41:07to get somebody who's going to do
41:08something for me. Again, I had no
41:10experience with the justice system. I
41:11don't know how any of this stuff really
41:12works. I got called out one day to the
41:14the judge to a judge's office. There was
41:16a man in there. They appointed this man
41:18to represent me. Capital murder case.
41:20Man who never done a murder case before.
41:22He done some cases, sexual assault cases
41:24before, but he never done a murder case.
41:26He also at that time was granted $5,000
41:28to defend me. $5,000 to represent me in
41:31a capital murder case in 1992.
41:34>> You [snorts] can't even get a divorce
41:35for $5,000. Mm-m.
41:38>> So, he got exactly what they they wanted
41:40him to do, nothing. That's why I was in
41:42drought. That's why I was sitting on in
41:44the courtroom. 7 months after my arrest,
41:46I'm facing a death penalty.
41:48>> But I have to say, God bless this
41:50worthless attorney. He never he never
41:52did any investigation, never got an
41:54expert, never given anybody. But but
41:57just before the trial was to start, I
41:58believe it was like a Thursday or
42:00Friday. The trial, I believe, was Monday
42:01or Tuesday. So we got called in the
42:03judges chambers there in the courtroom
42:05there to prosecutor wanted to introduce
42:07a a video tape made by their bite mark
42:09extra real impressive VCR tape 40 some
42:11minutes long of how he
42:13>> convincingly
42:15and conclusively matched my teeth to
42:17this bite mark. And my attorney was
42:19awake. He was paying attention. He
42:20objected. He said, "Your honor, I never
42:22seen this before. You can't allow this
42:23in at the last moment." Judge says
42:25denied. You can review this over the
42:26weekend. And in a burst of brilliance,
42:29probably never again recreated in my
42:31attorney's career, he said, "Your honor,
42:32in light of that ruling, I'm going to
42:34need a 30-day continuence. I'm going to
42:35have to have time to study this." And
42:38the judge was consistent. He overrule
42:40stuff. He was an ex- prosecutor. He was
42:42responsible for half a dozen people
42:43already on death row. He said, "Deni,
42:44you we need to get this trial rolling."
42:47>> Seven months since the murder and he's
42:49got to get a capital murder case
42:50rolling.
42:51>> Yeah.
42:52>> So, the appellet the appelic attorney
42:54actually wrote this down. It was action.
42:58Arizona Supreme Court reviewers said
42:59that that my attorney was well within
43:01his rights. The judge was wrong. That as
43:02a defendant, you have a right to know
43:03what evidence is going to be used
43:04against you. You have a right to receive
43:06that evidence in a timely manner. They
43:07said it shouldn't have been allowed in.
43:09They they said my attorney should have
43:10been granted the 30-day containers.
43:12Again, the judge was wrong.
43:14>> But just because so just because there's
43:16a error, a mistake and omission does not
43:18mean you automatically get a new trial.
43:20In Arizona, it's called harmless error
43:22evaluation. They then review it to
43:24determine whether or not this would have
43:25affected the verdict. would it even
43:27matter to the jury? And their exact
43:29words were, "Without this videotape,
43:31there wasn't even a jury dismissible
43:32case against Mr. Cone." And they ordered
43:35a new trial. So, that's how I got to to
43:38my second trial.
43:40>> I want to go back real quick. The
43:42gentleman you mentioned who helped you
43:44get the um position in the law library,
43:47is he still in for the murder? And did
43:51you make friends when you were in there?
43:54Do you still talk to anyone?
43:56>> I I probably can say the man's name Dan
43:58Willoughby. He has passed now. He was on
44:00death row. He did get a another try, got
44:02his sentence reduced to life. It was
44:04unfortunate. This happened in Mexico. A
44:07lady killed his wife down there while he
44:09was out visiting with the children doing
44:11vacationing stuff. Came back, found his
44:13wife murdered.
44:14Later on, the prosecutors in Phoenix,
44:16Arizona said that he knew this this
44:18person that did the killing that he had
44:20planned this in Arizona. That gave them
44:21jurisdiction. They tried him on as
44:24setting up this murder in Arizona to
44:27have his wife killed in Mexico and
44:28convicted him and sentenced him to death
44:30based on on this other person's
44:31testimony that actually did the killing.
44:33Later on, the person recounted said, you
44:35know, had lied before because they were
44:37promised something when and you know
44:40tied Dan in with the murder. The act the
44:44actual murderer recanted everything. Of
44:46course, prosecution always denies that.
44:48You can't trust them. They're a
44:49murderer. You can't believe what they
44:50say. When I got out, we both made a a
44:53pact of each other. We both believed in
44:54each other's innocence. Again, from our
44:57experiences, personal experience, how
44:58much it sounded like echoed what the
45:00other person's feelings were.
45:02>> And um when I got out, I told my
45:04attorney to investigate. There's nothing
45:06they could do. There's no evidence that
45:07proves he didn't kill her because he
45:09didn't kill her. There's no evidence he
45:10can prove that he didn't set this up
45:11because the prosecution used this person
45:14who lied to testimony saying he did do
45:16it and then later recanted. They're not
45:17going to set the recantation. But he was
45:20what a person I would consider a friend
45:22if you have a friend. You don't make
45:24friends in prison. You make
45:25acquaintances. You make friends in
45:26prison if you're a criminal. You know,
45:28if you got if you got a criminal
45:29enterprise or there's something you're
45:31everything, I don't know anything from a
45:32gang to whatever it might be. You might
45:34make friends in there. You know, you
45:35might have brother blood brothers or
45:37anything else. But
45:38>> no, I I had acquaintance in there. I
45:39wouldn't want them dating my sister
45:41living next to my mom.
45:42>> That's just true. Most people in there
45:44deserve to be in there. That's a fact.
45:45And then some of them actually want to
45:46be in there. That's where they're
45:47comfortable at. And that's the fact. Uh
45:50I wasn't Dan Willoughby wasn't that
45:51type. Dan Willoughby had no record. I
45:53had no record. I'm a veteran. You know
45:55those type of things. I was not the
45:57common denominator in prison,
45:58>> right?
45:59>> Especially on death row,
46:01>> right?
46:02>> But there there were people that I could
46:04get along with. There's people you have
46:05to get along with. Every again, as I
46:06said, prisons are run by gangs. Whether
46:08whatever color you are, there's a shot
46:10caller in each little section. Whether
46:11it's in your pod, whether it's in your
46:13unit, whether it's in that whole yard,
46:15there's a shot caller for your group,
46:16for your race. Wow.
46:18>> That military upbringing had to help you
46:20a little bit in some weird way.
46:22>> Yeah, wrestling in high school helped me
46:24a lot too. [laughter]
46:25>> That too.
46:26>> That too.
46:27>> Is there anything now that like will
46:30trigger like a smell, a sound? Is there
46:33anything that will put you back there?
46:35>> It It's passed now. Uh again, it's been
46:3720ome years. I can tell you when I first
46:39got out, there was a lot of things. You
46:40better not come up behind me because
46:42that's how you stab people. Uh there was
46:44things I wasn't getting in elevators
46:46with with other people with little kids.
46:47There were certain things and that's not
46:48exactly triggered. Let's say I didn't I
46:50didn't go into into buildings and sit
46:52with my back to the door. If I went to a
46:54restaurant, a bar or something. Here's
46:56example. Now when I got out the day I
46:57was released was not free to go. I had
46:59to wait 3 weeks to go before a judge.
47:01But I was out on O. I had to stay in a
47:03hotel. I'm walking down the sidewalk one
47:06day and all of a sudden I'm noticing I'm
47:07I'm bumping into the car mirrors and
47:09parking meters and telephone poles here
47:10in Phoenix, Arizona. And I'm like, dick.
47:13I was walking past the construction
47:14zone. There was a Cherry League fence on
47:16the other side of the sidewalk over
47:17there. In prison, you got to stay five
47:20feet away from the fences. You don't you
47:21can't get that close. There's like a
47:22little warning track like a baseball
47:24field.
47:25>> Here I was, you know, only only week
47:26out, you know, and I'm I'm, you know,
47:28over here staying away from that chain
47:30link fence.
47:31>> Uh, the P word. Uh, you don't you can
47:34call people just about any name you
47:35want. In prison, you don't call them a
47:36punk. [clears throat]
47:37>> Oh, man.
47:38>> I don't care. I don't care how loud it
47:40is. You could be a rock concert or
47:41somebody called her somebody a punk. It
47:43would got quiet that just don't go down
47:45there in Atlanta or prison. So, uh, you
47:48better not use that word around me. Um,
47:50you know, there was things and again, I
47:51I had to get in fights. I'm not I'm not
47:53a bully. I, you know, I defend myself
47:55because they're always going to look for
47:56the weak. I'm 6' tall. I was 190 pounds.
48:00By the time I got out of death row, I
48:01was doing 100 push-ups and and and doing
48:0420 pull-ups.
48:05>> So, I was pretty stout. I wasn't the we
48:07easiest person to pick on even though I
48:08wasn't the youngest person at at 35 38
48:11years old when I got off of death row.
48:13But uh but I I I was not a little
48:15person. But you still got to be tested.
48:16Whenever you go to somewhere new, they
48:17want to know what you're in there for.
48:19Thank you, Lord. I was not convicted of
48:21of sexual assault. That would have been
48:23ugly.
48:24>> Yeah.
48:25>> Nobody likes a rapist. Everybody got a
48:26mom or a sister. And worse yet, child
48:29molesters. Uh
48:31>> but there there were things that that
48:33that for for a while years that that did
48:37bother me. Uh again, I don't want to
48:39call it post-traumatic stress. And I
48:42know people that were actual warriors,
48:43true Vietnam warriors, people that know
48:45noises, bangs, and things like that
48:46triggers them for a fact. I've seen it
48:48happen to them.
48:49>> I wasn't that type of jumpy, but there
48:52were things that I would could or
48:53wouldn't do. But that P word was one
48:56thing. You better not use that word
48:57around me. And again, I you don't I I
49:01say the P word, but but that was one
49:03thing that that that was a trigger that
49:05would cause a lot of problems if
49:06somebody, you know, because I can just
49:08say one time I was in a bar and somebody
49:09said, "You're in prison. You weren't a
49:10punk, were you?" And that that was
49:12almost
49:13>> that was almost a lockup night there. Um
49:16luckily it was taken care of. But but
49:18that is one thing I know I'm I'm good
49:20now. You can hear I'm using the word I
49:21wouldn't even brought that up. Uh, I had
49:22some friends that that have talked to me
49:24about it over have seen me that have
49:25been there when this stuff kind of stuff
49:27has happened. And again, I don't want to
49:29go back to prison. There's no reason I
49:31should go back to prison. But that's
49:32something that could cause a lot of
49:33trouble uh with me. And again, a lot of
49:36people like if you're ever around
49:38bikers, there's a lot of bike clubs in
49:39there. You don't ever touch their
49:40colors. You don't ever touch their their
49:41patches. You don't ever touch their
49:43cuts. You don't touch their
49:45>> Yeah. Or there's trouble. And so there
49:48are some things you have to relearn when
49:50I was out there or I had to learn first
49:53when I was in there. Had to unlearn when
49:55I was out there.
49:56>> Right. Unlearn them.
49:57>> So I imagine there's a lot of dark
50:01moments especially on death row. What is
50:04it that ultimately kept you going
50:07especially during like the darkest
50:09times?
50:10>> Yeah, especially Ray when you like I've
50:12never met someone who had a a literal
50:14death clock. You were on death row. You
50:16knew it was going to end in death if not
50:17if nothing changed. So that's got to
50:19change your outlook.
50:20>> There's a lot of things to answer to
50:22that. First of all, I never believed
50:23they were going to execute me. I never
50:24had nightmares. I never believed I would
50:26have they executed six people in those
50:27three years I was there. So I know what
50:30those people went through. Some of them
50:31never mentioned never said anything
50:32about it. There weren't nobody kicking
50:34and screaming. Oh no, don't kill me. I
50:35wanted it's kill me. Do me a favor.
50:38>> People suffering all the time. It it's
50:40living and suffering is what hurts you.
50:42Not the dying part. You know, people die
50:44fast. It's quick. it's done with
50:46whatever, you know, if you kill me, do
50:47me a favor. That's how much they were
50:49suffering. That's how much they hated
50:50living in that environment. And that's a
50:53funny thing. People think that, oh,
50:54we'll give them the death penalty.
50:55They'll deserve that. That's the
50:56ultimate punishment. That ain't the
50:57ultimate punishment. Make them live the
50:59rest of their life and they're under
51:00them circumstances every day suffering.
51:02Maybe, just maybe, there something good
51:04can come of it. They might be able to do
51:05something good. Maybe if it's just
51:07simple enough to tell where the body is.
51:08Maybe it's simple enough. I know one man
51:10in there that was actually writing
51:11greeting cards, uh, you know, writing
51:13letters to some some, you know, ended up
51:15talking with their victim's families.
51:17But, but killing somebody, that ends the
51:19suffering. That ends the punishment
51:21right there.
51:21>> Yeah.
51:22>> Yeah. And I've learned that firsthand.
51:24But, uh, the isolation was the worst
51:26part of death row. I was not in a yard
51:28walking free, walking walking out around
51:30people. That came later on and that was
51:32worse because now's when the fights,
51:33now's when the trouble, now's when the
51:34racism came on. Now's when you better be
51:37looking have having set set of eyes out
51:39the back of your head kind of thing.
51:40>> Survival mode.
51:41>> Yeah. Or on death row. You were locked
51:43in. You're locked out all the time. Uh
51:45so, you know, the biggest thing again
51:46was the support of my family knowing
51:48that they believed in me that I didn't
51:49have to convince them and finding
51:51strength in the Bible. Each night I'd
51:52read read something and put it under my
51:54my pillow and knowing believing it
51:56still. The Lord knows I'm innocent. My
51:58God, I surely I surely want to believe
52:02in the Lord and have faith in the Lord
52:03that that there is a reason a purpose
52:05for this. And there's there's times that
52:07it was it was tough. There was time I
52:09you know different things would happen
52:11uh that that you know you'd see somebody
52:14lose their appeals. You'd see something
52:15and we all lived vicariously through
52:16other people. People were cheering when
52:18I walked off death row.
52:19>> People were happy for me because maybe
52:21it could be them one day. Somebody is
52:22getting out. It didn't matter who was
52:23there weren't no selfish jealousy, you
52:25know. It was like, hey, something could
52:27happen. We cheered when somebody got
52:28there. We rooted somebody to get a new
52:30trial,
52:31>> you know. That's the way it was. And
52:32again, thankfully, the racism wasn't so
52:34bad in there because we were all facing
52:36that same proverbial sword.
52:38>> Sure.
52:40Back of our neck. But those those dark
52:42days were were again, you have to have
52:44support. You have to have something to
52:45believe in. And I was fortunate again
52:46because I had that, but I could see
52:48other people around me in dent. And it
52:50just made me say, be thankful. Praise
52:52the Lord.
52:53>> Wow.
52:54>> Wow. Well, when Arizona finally passes
52:56this law allowing postconviction DNA
52:58testing, like you learned about this,
53:00obviously, did you feel was that
53:01hopeful? Was this like this is the
53:02moment? This is going to be my ticket
53:03out of here.
53:04>> It was. And now by then, now I'd already
53:06done about eight years. By then, I'd
53:08already had a second trial. I already
53:09got sentenced to life. Now, the judge
53:11said he had lingering residual doubt in
53:12my guilt and sentenced me to life
53:14instead of sending me back to death row.
53:16Now, I walk,
53:17>> which by the way is crazy to hear a
53:19judge reflect like that.
53:20>> That was his exact words. He said that
53:22outweighed the that was a mitigating
53:24factor outweighed the aggravating factor
53:25and sentenced me to life. He said the
53:26case would haunt him for the rest of his
53:27life.
53:28>> Um but again I had a a cousin actually
53:32was my mom's cousin. I guess that makes
53:34it second cousin or something. I don't
53:36know how that rel stuff is but his mom
53:38was my grandma's sister and they lived
53:40in California. She met a service man and
53:42way back in the 50s or something moved
53:44to California. the only relatives that
53:46does not live in in in York County,
53:48Pennsylvania, raised three boys. And uh
53:50one day they were watching a crime show
53:52of some type. And uh she said something
53:54about his mom said something to him
53:55about uh having a a a relative on death
53:58row in Arizona. And he was stunting. His
54:00name is Jim Ricks. God bless you, Jim.
54:02Jim was in heaven now in the past year.
54:05But but he he was stunt. He was like,
54:07"What what do you mean? Somebody in our
54:08family, a relative of ours is on death
54:10row kind of m what?" He was he lived in
54:13Lake Tahoe. He had his own business
54:15where he he did computer stuff, writing
54:18writing programming and stuff like that.
54:20Was really successful.
54:22>> He come to visit me on death row. First
54:23time I ever met him and we talked and by
54:26the end of it he he believed in me. He
54:28said something went right here and he
54:29spent the rest of of that time that I
54:31was in prison fighting to get me free.
54:33>> Wow.
54:34>> And he's the one that was writing
54:35letters to people. He was the one was
54:36got got my second trial attorney. He's
54:40the one that went to see uh bitemark
54:42experts for my second. We had three bite
54:43mark experts at my second trial testify.
54:45That wasn't me.
54:47>> It was an all-star team. Yeah.
54:49>> Yeah. Absolutely. He was the one the
54:50outside
54:52representative for me that talked to the
54:53lawyers. A very intelligent man, very
54:55very motivated, very driven. and uh and
54:58he's the one that that talked to some
54:59lawyers that when they passed that new
55:01law post conviction relief DNA testing
55:03only on on previously untested DNA
55:06material that was properly maintained,
55:08preserved and would have direct bearing
55:10on guild or innocence. Now Kim had been
55:12stabbed initially stabbed with a butcher
55:15knife from the kitchen so forcefully
55:17through her back that it actually bent
55:18the blade. A big butcher knife being
55:20bent. And so most of the experts, most
55:23of the people that that you know,
55:24investigators or something to talk to
55:25that we talked to all said, "Well, the
55:27perpetrator probably got hurt."
55:29>> I mean, if you stab it into a table that
55:32hard and it bends, you're you're
55:33handsight, they're going to go into that
55:34little edge of that blade there.
55:37>> And so when they passed that new law,
55:39thankfully the Finnish Police
55:40Department, it kept the clothing. This
55:42person stabbed her name is Kenneth
55:43Phillips. Kenneth Phil had actually
55:44stabbed her so hard through the through
55:46the clothing that bent the knife and
55:47then he cut her clothes off of her.
55:48Jeffer Parks cut the sleeves off.
55:50clothing was all there in the bathroom.
55:52They had kept that and preserved that.
55:54So when my attorney went to look at this
55:55clothing again under the assumption that
55:58maybe there should be some blood left
55:59from the from the perpetrator, there was
56:01a stain on her underwear. There was
56:03stain inside of her blue jeans. Appeared
56:04to be blood. Now this again this was 8
56:06years, 9 years old, almost 10 years old
56:08by then. But under that new law, he
56:10petitioned the court to have DNA testing
56:12done on that under assumption that this
56:14was blood from the perpetrator because
56:15of where it was. And of course, there
56:17was a hearing. It's that goes before a
56:19judge. The prosecutor, same prosecutor,
56:21put me on death row as there told the
56:22judge as a wild goose chase. It's a
56:24fishing expedition. This waste the
56:26court's time and money. Your honor,
56:27don't don't grant this motion.
56:29Nevertheless, the judge ordered that DNA
56:31test done. Thank you, judge.
56:34>> Yeah.
56:34>> And they ordered the Phoenix Police
56:36Department's recently accredited DNA lab
56:37to do that testing. Now, the last people
56:39in the world I wanted touching any of
56:41this DNA was the Phoenix Police
56:42Department, right? in that courtroom was
56:44pro was was police department and I'll
56:47give you the perfect example that
56:49detective that I told you that came up
56:50to me in my driveway very initially
56:51there
56:52>> when he was question by the prosecutor
56:56prosecutor said now when you informed
56:57Ray Cone of Kim's death did he say or do
56:59anything that that alarmed you in all
57:00your years as a homicide detention he
57:03said yes right away Cone denied
57:04associating with her I never denied
57:06associating with her I said I wasn't how
57:08does that sound though
57:09>> yeah right
57:10>> that's what he said in a court of law in
57:12front of a jury in front of audience.
57:14That's what he said. Trump did not
57:15associate with her.
57:16>> It's like, "No, I didn't."
57:18>> Anyway, that's why I didn't trust the
57:20police, but it turned out to be a
57:22blessing
57:23>> because by then only law enforcement
57:25agency had access to the DNA datab bank,
57:27the COTUS was being stored in access all
57:30around the country. And so, when they
57:32extracted DNA from the pants, the
57:33underwear, it was somebody else. It
57:34wasn't me. It wasn't the victim.
57:36>> And I say, "You go, girl." because this
57:38lab technician took that DNA, put it in
57:40the national data bank, and it spawned
57:42the world or whatever the heck it does,
57:44and came back with a match to a man that
57:46was currently serving a 10-ear sentence
57:48for having sexually assaulted a child.
57:50>> So, one of the things that stood out to
57:52me, first of all, I want you to react to
57:54that because that moment, indescribable.
57:57I mean, can you even put into words that
57:58moment, but also it was a Native
58:00American hair the whole time that they
58:02had, and I'm not sure why. Like, didn't
58:03that come into play? you you are clearly
58:05not Native American or Asian how they
58:07described it. Uh, very good point.
58:09Again, my second trial, which
58:13in comparison lasted seven weeks. Three
58:15bite mark experts testified from the
58:17defense. DNA was identified on a slab
58:20that was not my DNA. Hair that was not
58:22even my ethnicity. Footprint size nine
58:24and a half. I wear a size 11. My bare
58:26foot whole footprint
58:28>> in the in the bathroom and in the
58:29kitchen where the knife was taken in the
58:30bathroom where the body was found. But
58:32now that the DNA part of it, and again,
58:34I'm in prison. You don't talk over the
58:36phone with your family or anything. Your
58:37attorneys can come in, that's privacy,
58:39but anything else is listened to. So, so
58:42I'm finding this out peace meal slowly
58:44with somebody come to visit, excuse me,
58:45somebody would come visit me, could tell
58:47me what was going on, but most of it was
58:48just the family say, "Well, something's
58:49happening here. We'll let you know when
58:51we know more." But, uh, I was excited to
58:53know that there were there was was going
58:54to be DNA testing done. Uh, but really
58:58until the very last moment that I was
59:00told that they actually got a match. And
59:02again, it was this is a typical system.
59:04This is how bad the prosecution, this is
59:05how bad Maroba County justice system is.
59:08This started in October where they
59:10ordered DNA testing done. We were told
59:11it would take six to eight weeks.
59:13>> January comes, we still ain't had word
59:14back.
59:15>> February, we're wondering what's going
59:16on here. My understanding is was
59:19actually leaked by one of the lab
59:20technicians to my attorney, Chris, was a
59:23very famous attorney out of California.
59:24Well, very well man, expert, a
59:27wonderful, wonderful guy. He's a judge
59:28now. Amen. Out there. it was leaked to
59:31him that the testing had already been
59:32done and they're on their fourth test
59:33now having to retry it again because the
59:35prosecutor requested it four times
59:37they'd rather redid the DNA that they
59:39already had as somebody and they were
59:41still trying to tie me to it.
59:43>> Finally in April was finally I'm I'm in
59:45a yard now in in Yuma, Arizona.
59:48I got right around lunchtime, noon time,
59:51I get called out to a counselor over
59:53there. I'm going to miss Chow. You don't
59:54want to miss Chow. We only got like
59:551,800 calories a day in prison, you
59:59know. And so I'm going over talk to law
1:00:01the the counselor there from the yard
1:00:04and he says, "Oh yeah, your attorney's
1:00:06on the phone." It was Alan Simpson from
1:00:07Phoenix said, "Ray, how you doing
1:00:08today?" I said, "Fine. Just another day
1:00:10in paradise." He left. He said, "No,
1:00:12really." He said, "What do you want to
1:00:13eat?" I said, "What are you talking
1:00:15about? I'll eat whatever's in the
1:00:16charcoal." He said, "No, really, what do
1:00:18you want? Steak, seafood, Mexican food.
1:00:19What would you like?" I said, "Alan,
1:00:21what the devil are you talking about?"
1:00:22[laughter]
1:00:24He said, "I just got off the phone with
1:00:25the prosecutor's office. They just got
1:00:27back from the judge's chamber.
1:00:29you're coming home today. I I said,
1:00:32"What did you just say?" They said,
1:00:34"Roll up, Ray. You're coming home." I I
1:00:36mean, I was dumbfounded. I mean, how?
1:00:38And I'm looking at the the counselor
1:00:40there and he's they got the phone back
1:00:42to him. He hangs up. He said, "I don't
1:00:44know anything about that." You know,
1:00:45he's you know how lawyers are. And about
1:00:47that time, his phone rings again. Yes,
1:00:48sir. He's he's sitting right here. Yes,
1:00:50sir. His eyes get big. He said, "Yes,
1:00:52sir. Absolutely." Yes, sir. I'll take
1:00:53care of said that was the word. And he
1:00:56said, "You need to go back and get your
1:00:57stuff. you're going to be released.
1:00:58>> Wow.
1:00:59>> I was unbelievable.
1:01:00>> I I I about about two and a half hours
1:01:02later, I walked out of that prison,
1:01:04start my life all over again. Chris
1:01:05Plord was over in California. Now,
1:01:07Yuma's right there on the border. He was
1:01:08over in El Central California. He came
1:01:10over, picked me up. I'm walking out the
1:01:12yard. People were in the rec pen there
1:01:15yelling and cheering, "Go home, Ray." I
1:01:16was on the television. When I got back
1:01:18to my cell, it was already on the 12:00
1:01:19news. People were inside jumping up and
1:01:21down. I looked through the window. I
1:01:22thought it was a fight going on. I have
1:01:23to run in there and find out they're all
1:01:24celebrating for me to go home.
1:01:25>> A parade. The man that came the man that
1:01:28came in civilian clothes, the the
1:01:30officer that came to walk me out was
1:01:31actually a CO, original correction
1:01:33officer of death row that remembers from
1:01:34then walking me out. He says, "I
1:01:36remember you from death row. People said
1:01:37there was something different about
1:01:38you." Said, "You might not have been
1:01:39guilty." All this stuff happened so fast
1:01:42that one day just like that one day I I
1:01:43woke up in my bed and got questioned by
1:01:45the police and
1:01:48>> you know being in in jail that night.
1:01:50this day morning I woke up in in prison
1:01:52and walked out that day to start my life
1:01:55all over again at the age of 45
1:01:57>> and what is that like having to rebuild
1:02:00everything?
1:02:01>> Yeah, cuz you lost everything.
1:02:02>> It it takes I I I did, you know, but I
1:02:05didn't lose my life, thank God. And
1:02:06that's what they wanted to take. I
1:02:07didn't lose my self-esteem, my respect
1:02:10for myself. my my family and friends of
1:02:12people that knew me uh gained because
1:02:15they were right all along that they
1:02:16stood up in the face of anybody that
1:02:18that that that agree with the
1:02:20prosecutor, the police that my family
1:02:22was right and I was able to talk and
1:02:24speak about it, which happened right
1:02:26away as soon as I got out because I
1:02:27walked out the gate with my my attorney
1:02:29where I drove out the gate and there was
1:02:31lights, cameras, news set up because at
1:02:34the time that I was released I was not
1:02:35only, you know, start my life over again
1:02:37at the age of 45. I was the 100th person
1:02:39in America to have faced in the
1:02:41destinies and later be free. 100
1:02:43mistakes have now been made. Documented
1:02:45100 people that were sentenced to death
1:02:46were proven innocent were later freed.
1:02:48And so the media was there asked me what
1:02:50was it like? What am I going to do? And
1:02:51I talked about the support of my family,
1:02:53how I survived, the Bible underneath my
1:02:55pillow. And one of the reporters in the
1:02:58standing there, I mean there was there's
1:02:59a dozen of them, lights, camera,
1:03:01everything all around there. One of them
1:03:02reporters raised his hand. He said,
1:03:03"Well, Mr. Cone," and this is how he
1:03:05talked. Mr. prone. Given your faith in
1:03:07God, how do you justify him leaving you
1:03:10in prison for 10 years?
1:03:12>> What? How do I justify God leaving me in
1:03:15prison for 10 years? How do you answer a
1:03:17deep soulsearching question like that? I
1:03:19mean, I'm stunned. I'm frozen there and
1:03:21they're all leaning forward with the
1:03:22cameras and the microphones and all and
1:03:25it's something shot in my head. I said,
1:03:26"Well, you know, maybe it's not about
1:03:28those 10 years I spent in prison. Maybe
1:03:29it's about what I have to do the next 10
1:03:31years."
1:03:31>> At a boy.
1:03:32>> Wow.
1:03:32>> I thought about later on. And that's
1:03:34that's what it was. I mean again while
1:03:35those three weeks I was staying there I
1:03:37was interviewed on television. I was
1:03:38asked to go speak at I believe it was a
1:03:40Rotary Club Ramsey International.
1:03:42Something was meeting there in Phoenix
1:03:43that time. I went spoke with them. It
1:03:45was part of my readjustment then now to
1:03:47get back. I didn't know anything about
1:03:48life. I didn't heck I got into cars and
1:03:51next thing I'm trying to turn to turn
1:03:52signals on. I got windshaped wipers
1:03:54flashing and [laughter]
1:03:56I mean I didn't
1:03:57>> You don't have keys anymore. They have
1:03:58buttons to turn them on.
1:04:00>> Yeah. As soon as soon as I got to that,
1:04:02this happened. As soon as I got done
1:04:03with that interview that day, the Chris,
1:04:05what do you want to do? I said, "Well, I
1:04:06got a $50 gate check here." The money
1:04:08that they kept, they gave you this out
1:04:10of your pay over the years. I said, "I'm
1:04:12going to cash this and get some real
1:04:13food." He goes, "I'll give you $100 for
1:04:14that right now." I said, "It's only
1:04:17$50." He said, "I'll give you $100 for
1:04:19it." Anyway, he ended up getting a check
1:04:21from me. He had it had a a plaque, put a
1:04:24plaque on it, and mounted and had it on
1:04:25his wall in his law office is what he
1:04:27hilarious.
1:04:28>> Wow. But we went to a little convenience
1:04:30store. I was in Yum, Arizona. Phoenix
1:04:31was about three, three and a half, four
1:04:33hours away. I was making my way back to
1:04:35Phoenix. We stopped at a convenience
1:04:36store and I'm going in there. I'm just
1:04:37going to get me a regular old bean and
1:04:38beef burrito and iced tea.
1:04:40>> Yeah.
1:04:40>> Well, I mean, there's about eight or 10
1:04:42different types of burritos now.
1:04:44[laughter] There's at least five or six
1:04:46different types of iced teas I got to
1:04:47pick my way through besides different
1:04:49brands of iced teas. Finally, I got what
1:04:51I wanted. I went over to the microwave
1:04:52and I'm looking at this thing. I don't
1:04:54even know what to do with this thing
1:04:55here. There was a little kid right there
1:04:57picking out some and I said, "Do you
1:04:58know how to work this?" He goes, "Yes,
1:05:00sir." And he he got it did something
1:05:02quick and put it in there and looked at
1:05:03me and walked away and it flashed and
1:05:05beeped and I got it out of there. I
1:05:07don't even know how it worked, but I had
1:05:08to laugh at myself. But that that was
1:05:10part of the my adjustment was laughing
1:05:11at things. I wasn't stupid. I was
1:05:13ignorant. I didn't know things, but I
1:05:15wasn't stupid. I could learn.
1:05:16>> Those were the problems that you can
1:05:18deal with.
1:05:18>> Yeah. Everything was new to I didn't
1:05:20even know what was a good price for
1:05:21things. But my family, friends,
1:05:22everybody there was just so caring and
1:05:24concerned to help me out. They wanted
1:05:26wanted to be part of how can we help
1:05:27you. When I got back to Pennsylvania,
1:05:29people were doing so much things for me,
1:05:31donated stuff. My folks had had acquired
1:05:34my great-grandpa's property that I grew
1:05:36up in. Actually, one of the houses on
1:05:37the property was now converted into a
1:05:40semi apartment, two apartments. So, I
1:05:42had a place to live. One of my friends
1:05:43was a plumber. We put me to work helping
1:05:45him, you know, just everybody was there
1:05:48to help me. And it was almost humbling
1:05:50because I'm like I say I was the oldest
1:05:51one in the family. I was you know I was
1:05:53the older brother. I was one supposed to
1:05:55help other people you know and there was
1:05:57it was humbling to have people to do
1:05:58that for me. But it was easier for for
1:06:01me because of that support that I had.
1:06:03And again it reminded me all those
1:06:04people I knew people I believe that may
1:06:06be innocent that that did not have that
1:06:08help did not people in prison that
1:06:09didn't there there were people in there
1:06:11for killing their loved ones.
1:06:12>> Right.
1:06:13>> You know.
1:06:13>> Yeah. Right.
1:06:14>> How do you survive that? You're
1:06:15convicted of killing your wife. Your
1:06:17family's against you. Your in-laws are
1:06:18all against you. the kids are now
1:06:19against you. They're turned against you.
1:06:20I mean, so there's so many things for me
1:06:22to be thankful. Not only was I released,
1:06:24but they got who did it. There's no
1:06:25question of my innocence.
1:06:27>> I don't think I'd have walked around too
1:06:28well if there were people say, "Oh, he
1:06:29didn't got away with it." Because that's
1:06:30what the cops do. That's what the
1:06:32prosecutors do when they don't.
1:06:35>> All those things work in my favor. And
1:06:36then to be able to go out and talk about
1:06:38it, to share with people, see people
1:06:40line it up afterwards. The cops stop by
1:06:41and shake my hands. The newspapers want
1:06:43to know how it feels. What am I going to
1:06:44do? I talked to most of the high schools
1:06:47in York County when I got out
1:06:48voluntarily go to their assemblies.
1:06:51I [snorts] tell you this story because
1:06:52it's one of the emotional things and
1:06:54I'll probably tear up a little bit but I
1:06:56I was speaking to the law school
1:06:59at Carell Pennsylvania the Penn State
1:07:01took it over now. um that I was speaking
1:07:05at at this law school and at the end
1:07:08usually people come up to the stage up
1:07:10front where I'm at and usually want to
1:07:11shake my hand, say something, sign
1:07:12something, whatever it is, get a picture
1:07:14taken and I notic this one young man and
1:07:16the ladies that kept holding back,
1:07:18letting everybody go and everybody was
1:07:20going past it and he came up. He said,
1:07:22"Mr. Cron," he said, "Excuse me." He
1:07:25said, "You may not remember me." He
1:07:26said, "You spoke at my high school a
1:07:28couple years ago." He said, "And uh
1:07:30you're the I wanted you to introduce you
1:07:31to my mom. You're the reason I'm going
1:07:33to law law school.
1:07:34>> Wow.
1:07:35>> Wow.
1:07:36>> It just again it I don't know that it
1:07:39wasn't it didn't make those 10 years
1:07:40worth it so to speak, but it made those
1:07:4310 years meaningful. It made made made
1:07:45those that gave it a reason. And I mean
1:07:49there's there's a number of things
1:07:50opportunities I've been to Europe to to
1:07:52speak and travel have so many
1:07:53opportunities to do things that that is
1:07:57part of still my adjustment to it.
1:07:59Again, if the Lord chose me, then then
1:08:02so be it. I I I do what I want. But most
1:08:04of all, I want my family, my friends
1:08:05that believed in me from the beginning
1:08:06to be very proud and to know that I'm
1:08:08okay. They worried about me while I'm in
1:08:09prison. I don't want them worried about
1:08:11the rest of my life.
1:08:12>> You're you're a strong man. And I think
1:08:14that that
1:08:15>> the things that you endured, you could
1:08:17very easily choose to be bitter at the
1:08:18world. You can obviously be bitter at
1:08:20the justice system, which no one would
1:08:21blame you for that, but also the world
1:08:23just for the for the way this, you know,
1:08:25everything was handled. Um, and and I
1:08:28think that the fact that you're choosing
1:08:29forgiveness and speaking of forgiveness,
1:08:32I don't want to forget to ask you about
1:08:33Kim Anona's family reaching out to you
1:08:35and like apologizing. The day I finally
1:08:38went before a judge, like I say, it was
1:08:393 weeks after my release. The family was
1:08:41opening to go before the judge. They had
1:08:42this scheduled for this postconviction
1:08:44relief hearing actually, which which
1:08:45point that the judge looked at the
1:08:47evidence and ordered a new trial. I was
1:08:49not free to go. He ordered a new trial.
1:08:51At that point, the prosecutor stepped
1:08:52forward. not the prosecutor who put me
1:08:54on death row, but the head prosecution
1:08:55of the head DA of Maricopa County there
1:08:58stepped forward and said, "We're
1:08:59dropping charges with prejudice, uh,
1:09:01meaning that they can never retrive me
1:09:03again."
1:09:03>> Right?
1:09:04>> And at which point the judge banged the
1:09:05go, "Mr. Cron, you're free to go." And
1:09:07of course, my local friends, my family
1:09:08were there. People were cheering and
1:09:10hollering. And I I noticed Kim's mom was
1:09:12there and she was always a free older
1:09:14lady, a smaller stature that by this
1:09:17time she was walking with the Kite. She
1:09:18came up to the crowd and cleared the way
1:09:20and she came she missed the crown. I
1:09:21just want to apologize to you. I'm so
1:09:23sorry for what happened to you. I know
1:09:25what it's like to lose a loved one. I
1:09:27mean, your mom lost you for 10 years. I
1:09:30lost my daughter. She said, "I'm so
1:09:31sorry. I just I just believed what they
1:09:33told me."
1:09:34>> Mhm.
1:09:35>> And I said, "What else? What else can
1:09:37she do?" Because both trials, at both my
1:09:38trials, of course, you had victim impact
1:09:40statements. I mean, she spoke vely and
1:09:43angrily about me. I'm hatefully and
1:09:44rightfully so. I said, "Nam, I
1:09:46understand there's no need to apologize.
1:09:47I completely understand you. you were
1:09:49were lashing out at at the person that
1:09:51killed your daughter. It wasn't me. I
1:09:53never took it personally and I
1:09:54understood, believe me, and it's my
1:09:56first opportunity to offer my
1:09:57condolences. I do your daughter for just
1:09:59a short time, but she did seem to be a
1:10:00wonderful person. I said, "So, your
1:10:03apology certainly accepted it. And
1:10:05again, it's not necessary." And we
1:10:06hugged.
1:10:07>> Oh,
1:10:08>> just a few years ago now, I was actually
1:10:10doing a TV show. Um, I can't even
1:10:12remember if it was a rest and trial. one
1:10:15I've done a lot of not rest and trial
1:10:18death row stories or
1:10:20>> I've done a lot of but anyway uh this
1:10:22her son was was introduced to me on this
1:10:24show here and he he was he was in his
1:10:27teens maybe 15 16 somewhere near there
1:10:31was two trials they were like three
1:10:32years apart by a second trial my family
1:10:34had actually said that he had actually
1:10:36made mention to them at the breaks in
1:10:38between time when people would go
1:10:39outside and actually made a comment or
1:10:41something about he wasn't sure
1:10:43>> of my guilt because all the new evidence
1:10:44was coming stuff that did not DNA wasn't
1:10:47mine, hair, it wasn't mine. You know,
1:10:48I'm home in bed, footprints that weren't
1:10:50mine. uh and uh anyway he was introduced
1:10:53to me then he had been suffering all
1:10:55those years with at least in his own
1:10:57words I won't I won't say it exactly the
1:10:59way he said it but basically he was
1:11:01traumatized from this because he felt
1:11:03some type of guilt some type of pain
1:11:04sometime internal imbalance because of
1:11:07the way he felt and what what happened
1:11:08to me and how it went and and he just he
1:11:11he emotionally was was was touched by it
1:11:14in in a negative way if if we will again
1:11:17I'm sorry my words don't really explain
1:11:18it because I'm talking about somebody
1:11:19else but
1:11:20>> it was a moving moment right there where
1:11:22we hugged in tears in his eyes and all
1:11:24this because he had every reason to hate
1:11:26me all along. I mean, anybody that was
1:11:28that was a friend of hers, a family
1:11:30member of hers would would would want to
1:11:31hate the person that killed him. I mean,
1:11:32it's only rightfully so. But he right,
1:11:34>> he had his brothers, he had his doubts
1:11:36about whether or not he should or
1:11:37shouldn't. And that caused a turmoil,
1:11:39real upheaval in his life for all those
1:11:41years. And and there was opportunity on
1:11:43this show years and years after my
1:11:44release. Unfortunately for him, the way
1:11:46it it seemed because it really did
1:11:48seemed like it was releasing a burden. I
1:11:51mean, we even after the show was done
1:11:52filming, I mean, we still talked for
1:11:54quite a while there. It was I mean, you
1:11:56you might you might spend five hours
1:11:58filming the show and it might only be 45
1:12:00minutes when it's done.
1:12:00>> Exactly.
1:12:01>> But, but I So, I did get to to talk with
1:12:04his mom and I did get to talk with her
1:12:05son at some point along the lines and in
1:12:08in both their lives. And and
1:12:10>> was that therapeutic for you?
1:12:12>> Yes. And absolutely. And again, I don't
1:12:14think any of us, well, I don't think
1:12:16anybody I know and friends I know,
1:12:18people I I I consider friends and family
1:12:21would would want to be hated by someone,
1:12:24would want to want to make it right. If
1:12:25there was something I did personally,
1:12:27then you might have deserved it, you
1:12:29know, but but but not own intentionally
1:12:31have somebody hating you for something
1:12:32that that was wrong that you didn't do.
1:12:35I think most all of us would want to
1:12:36correct that at at whatever opportunity
1:12:39we have to do it. And and so that's
1:12:41that's what it was for for me. And
1:12:43again, it was very moving. It's one of
1:12:45those that evening, it was something
1:12:46that, you know, you you you thought
1:12:47about and thought about and thought
1:12:48about and just say, "Wow, how fortunate
1:12:51or or how
1:12:54monumental this that was."
1:12:56>> Um,
1:12:57>> very cool.
1:12:58>> Yep. Well, if there's someone listening
1:13:00right now who is wrongfully convicted or
1:13:04someone listening who loves someone who
1:13:06has been wrongfully convicted, what
1:13:08would you want them to hear from you?
1:13:13[gasps]
1:13:16>> It's always a fight. It's supposed to be
1:13:17a fight and we're always it's always
1:13:19uphill once that conviction is in there.
1:13:22Work hard before that happens, but once
1:13:23you're at that point there, you can't
1:13:25give up. and and the support that you
1:13:27offer to your loved one as a tremendous
1:13:30building block in their ability to
1:13:32withstand and endure the system that is
1:13:36now has its full weight upon them. It'll
1:13:39give them the strength to endure those
1:13:40days, the faith to believe that that
1:13:43people believe in me, the system can
1:13:45find find the truth in me one day. It's
1:13:49never going to be easy. If it was easy,
1:13:51this stuff wouldn't never happened
1:13:52before because it shouldn't have
1:13:53happened to begin with. But I can only
1:13:55only say this. We I felt I felt for lack
1:13:59of a better word the love
1:14:02and love can come in all different forms
1:14:03for different reasons. Uh but th this
1:14:05was an actual pure love of somebody
1:14:08caring so much about your well-being
1:14:11that they would they would make
1:14:12sacrifices to do what they can. Is it a
1:14:14mother's love for their children? I mean
1:14:16a father's love for for their child. I
1:14:18mean that type of love that people care.
1:14:20People that don't have to people can say
1:14:21oh well they deserve it. Oh, well I mean
1:14:23that they're on your own now. Find that
1:14:25strength if you're on the outside. That
1:14:28belief if you believed it to begin with,
1:14:30you stay that course because there's
1:14:31going to be a whole lot of of outside
1:14:34interference and noise that's going to
1:14:35try to make you stop, going to try to
1:14:37make you quit. And if you're the one on
1:14:39the inside, find that strength to know
1:14:41that even if it's just one person that
1:14:43cares, don't let that person down. You
1:14:46you keep that strength to maintain.
1:14:48Allow them to allow themselves to help
1:14:50you. It's a team effort and it takes a
1:14:53team and I I I I wish I could lay a
1:14:56healing lands in one plain word to say
1:14:59faith, strength, uh it takes it takes a
1:15:03group of things together, but but one
1:15:05thing is you don't quit. You know, you
1:15:07know in your heart what you are and
1:15:09there's other people that have the same
1:15:10kind of heart. Those people will find
1:15:12you. They will find you and you'll be
1:15:14stronger because of it.
1:15:17Ray, this was a you're a a beautiful man
1:15:20for the way you look at life
1:15:22>> and um I can't thank you enough for
1:15:24coming on today.
1:15:25>> Your case has lived with me my whole
1:15:27career and there's in this true crime
1:15:29space there's there's a community that
1:15:31has always asked what got you into true
1:15:33crime? What what jumped your love of
1:15:36true crime? So people like love these
1:15:38stories, but I kind of fell into it. So
1:15:40it was a direction that I wanted to take
1:15:42with my life, get into television, and
1:15:44it just happened to be true crime. And
1:15:46with your with Kim's case, with your
1:15:47case, that's the answer I always give to
1:15:50people because I've covered I think now
1:15:52I' I've reached 200 and I'm a little
1:15:55over 200 cases, people stories that I've
1:15:58covered that I've had the chance to
1:15:59cover either on the podcast or with
1:16:00shows and and yours will always stick
1:16:02with me because it was my very first.
1:16:05And just learning learning about the
1:16:07justice system and the injustices in the
1:16:10system and just how somebody can come
1:16:12out the other side. I feel like this
1:16:14taught you so many lessons and turned
1:16:15you into the the man that you are today.
1:16:17So for all the all the awful things that
1:16:19happened. Um you're amazing and I can't
1:16:22thank you enough for being here.
1:16:22>> You are. Yeah. Thank you so much.
1:16:25>> My my thanks to you for sharing that
1:16:27because again that that goes to what I
1:16:28said. There must have been a reason I
1:16:30was put in that position. It must been a
1:16:31reason my family people were involved in
1:16:33this to get to a point where we it it
1:16:35can help other people now.
1:16:37>> Perfect. Well, that is that is our goal
1:16:38as well.
1:16:39>> We make a difference.
1:16:40>> Awesome Ray. We really really appreciate
1:16:42you.
1:16:43>> Yeah. Thank you so much. This was this
1:16:45was incredible. You're incredible.
1:16:47>> Yeah. You're kind.
1:16:49>> All right. We'll talk soon, Ray.
1:16:52>> Okay. Ray's case terrifies me because,
1:16:55you know, I have such a jacko'lantern
1:16:56smile and it's such a distinctive bite.
1:16:59Like when he was saying about he would
1:17:02bite into a sandwich or he would bite
1:17:03his arm. I'm like, I would totally do
1:17:06that because I know my bite.
1:17:08>> I know. I know. Right. And it it's just
1:17:10such a powerful conversation. I mean, I
1:17:12think it's an incredible testament to
1:17:14his will and the the fact that he used
1:17:17God to help drive him and found found
1:17:19something that can propel him toward the
1:17:21outcome that he knew was the truth. Just
1:17:24so cool.
1:17:25>> His outlook on everything reminds me so
1:17:27much of Jod Leair who
1:17:29>> yes
1:17:30>> was one of our guests back in I don't
1:17:34know July of 2024. I think it was like
1:17:36our second block and
1:17:38>> it was early.
1:17:39>> Jodie had just like Rey had has every
1:17:42right to hate the world and be bitter
1:17:45and she's not and he's not and I don't
1:17:48know how they do that. I don't know how
1:17:51they do that.
1:17:51>> I don't either. I have a minor
1:17:53inconvenience and it upsets. It like
1:17:54ruins my day.
1:17:55>> Yeah. Exactly.
1:17:57>> Yeah. Well, this is um this is cool and
1:17:59I
1:18:01uh what do I want to say? Hold on.
1:18:03Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that
1:18:05perspective. Um, if you have any
1:18:07questions for Ray, let us know. We can
1:18:08absolutely send him a message, get you
1:18:10answers, or if you just have comments
1:18:11about the episode or about Ray's ordeal,
1:18:14which ordeal doesn't seem to do it
1:18:16justice, but
1:18:17>> yeah. What do you
1:18:17>> for lack of a better word,
1:18:19>> I don't know.
1:18:20>> Missing chapter of your life. I mean, I
1:18:22understand that it was part of your
1:18:23life, so it's
1:18:24>> part of the whole thing, but it's just
1:18:26like missing time. It's wild.
1:18:29>> 100%. Well, what do we got coming up
1:18:31next month? We are going to be I don't
1:18:34think we have a block name yet because
1:18:36we're not that on top of things.
1:18:39>> But
1:18:40>> we have cases
1:18:41>> and we are Yeah, we have the cases. We
1:18:43just don't have a name.
1:18:44>> We're going to be talking about short
1:18:47sentences like
1:18:49>> because it's a because February is a
1:18:50short month. See what we did there?
1:18:53>> See that? Look. Okay, maybe we are on
1:18:55the ball but not really.
1:18:57>> Pretty damn pretty damn good. We're kind
1:18:59of like cats where like we can kind of
1:19:03take care of ourselves for a couple
1:19:04days, but there should probably
1:19:06[laughter] be someone checking in every
1:19:08now and then.
1:19:08>> Leave the toilet lid open.
1:19:10>> Yeah. Like you're probably good for like
1:19:123 days, but like good thing we have
1:19:14Brenda and Scott to check in.
1:19:16>> Yeah. Melissa needs snacks every 3
1:19:18hours. She needs
1:19:19>> That's true. [laughter]
1:19:21>> Yeah. Short sentences. So, basically,
1:19:23we're we're going to cover crimes where
1:19:25either the person got off way too easy
1:19:27for what they did and then went on to
1:19:29cause more problems. And we're only
1:19:31going to tease a little bit, but the
1:19:32guest that we have tentatively lined up
1:19:34will be super cool. He's pretty
1:19:36high-profile,
1:19:37>> too. And he's he's got a it's a movement
1:19:39that he's been a big part of.
1:19:41>> He's actually someone um I've mentioned
1:19:43in one of my cases, a recent case. So,
1:19:46>> it's true. And I believe I even dropped
1:19:48his name a couple weeks ago.
1:19:50>> Yeah. [laughter]
1:19:51You always yell at me and say, "You
1:19:54can't say it. You can't tell anyone yet.
1:19:55You can't say it." And look at you just
1:19:57right.
1:19:57>> But it was the fact, you know why? It
1:19:59was because you brought him up without
1:20:00my knowledge and I'm like, "Oh, he's
1:20:02going to be our guest." Like, it just
1:20:05>> Well, then you edited it, so you could
1:20:06have cut that out, too.
1:20:08>> Oh, [ __ ] I did. It's true. Fair point.
1:20:10It's This one's on me.
1:20:12>> Oh, boy. On that note, we have a
1:20:15Patreon, guys. Not sure if you know
1:20:17about it. um pretty new but it's pretty
1:20:20awesome. There are a couple episodes out
1:20:24already. There's two full length, no I'm
1:20:26sorry, two episodes, a full length and a
1:20:28mini. And then what we're doing is we
1:20:31are going to try to early release
1:20:33episodes as much as we can. For example,
1:20:36this last week which aired um on
1:20:39Tuesday, we released it Sunday night to
1:20:41Patreons adree. So, if that's something
1:20:43you're interested in, um, you can go to
1:20:46patreon.com/murderscripted
1:20:48or just go to patreon and search for us
1:20:50and it will explain all the tiers, but
1:20:52we would love to have you.
1:20:53>> That is true. And we had a couple people
1:20:54sign up and we are going to thank them.
1:20:57Now is not the place. We'll thank you
1:20:58guys next week, but we're very excited
1:20:59about that. They along for the ride.
1:21:01>> And again, if you have any questions for
1:21:03Rey, hit us up. Let us know. You can get
1:21:06us on our socials at murderscripted. You
1:21:09can email us murderscriptedpodgmail.com
1:21:12or you can drop us a line through our
1:21:14website www.mmurderunscriptedpod.com.
1:21:19>> The place is
1:21:22>> Yes, [clears throat] it is.
1:21:23>> Sure is.
1:21:24>> Well, until next week, we hope that you
1:21:27stay safe. We hope that you stay
1:21:29hydrated. And we hope that you remember
1:21:32perverts don't wear signs that say
1:21:34they're perverts. They do, however, have
1:21:38mustaches and half beards growing back.
1:21:40It's much better this week.
1:21:41>> Didn't I tell you three days it would be
1:21:43back? I was pushing hard.
1:21:44>> Okay. All right.
1:21:45>> Get that beard out
1:21:46>> like Play-Doh. [laughter]
1:21:49Bye.
1:21:51[music]

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