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The TRUTH About the Pakistani R*pe Gangs and the failure of multiculturalism in UK w/ Maajid Nawaz — Transcript

by Winston Marshall · 17,799 words · 2,536 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00the problem is multiculturalism in this
0:01country has failed the Scandal now the
0:04current 2025 Scandal is the cover up
0:07because the cover up was
0:09orchestrated because K starm local
0:12police and local councils and Social
0:14Services didn't fail they didn't they
0:16were complicit this was an organized
0:18operation not just on the street level
0:20with the British Pakistani gangs but
0:22actually this organization went through
0:23into the police into the councils and
0:25into the care workers you acquire this
0:28compromising material over policians
0:30like Lord air armed hang it over them
0:32and say I've got this on you you need to
0:34do what I say what's going on in these
0:37communities that this is even
0:39happened this is a problem in Pakistan
0:42this is a problem in Afghanistan and
0:43it's now a problem in Britain by the way
0:45there's a methodology to it thing you're
0:47worried about is going to come back with
0:48a vengeance if you don't speak the truth
0:52your desire to burn the country over
0:55these sorts of issues are founded on
0:56Rock if you don't accept the traditions
1:00culture of this country you're engag in
1:01subversion against this country the
1:03failure of multiculturalism integration
1:06citizenship Muslim belonging in Europe
1:08it's got to a point now where we can't
1:10escape this question we're literally at
1:12that decision point is there going to be
1:13a Civil War and do we all kill each
1:15other or do we figure out a
1:18solution before you hear from mid noaz I
1:21ask if you want to support this show all
1:23you have to do is press subscribe we're
1:25nearly at 300,000 subscribers and 45% of
1:29regular viewers are not subscribed so
1:31that's all you have to do if you want to
1:32help me get more great guests on
1:34discussing the issues and topics that
1:36you at home want to hear about but
1:38without further Ado Magid
1:41noas Magid noas thank you so much for a
1:44long time in the making and I think
1:47viewers will know who you are and
1:50there's so many things we can discuss
1:53about your unbelievable life I think
1:56that's our conversation for another day
1:57and I think the viewers should watch
1:59your your book radical um which I did
2:02many years ago and we became great
2:04friends and and um you know you you've
2:06had many lifetimes time at LBC your time
2:09in Egypt and your time at quum and I
2:12want to say on a personal note why I'm
2:15so grateful for this is because you are
2:17one of very few people who stood by me
2:19in my darkest times particularly when I
2:22was having trouble through a sort of
2:23cancellation episode but you were one of
2:25very few people to publicly uh stick up
2:28for me and for that I will be forever
2:30grateful well thank you Winston that
2:31will also bear fruit um if you don't
2:33mind me announcing it here we've already
2:34announced it publicly anyway so there's
2:36nothing being broken but the new show
2:38I'm working on will be called canceled
2:40and that will bear fruit you will uh
2:42inshallah as we say be a guest on my new
2:45pending show canceled which uh seeks to
2:48turn 60-minute style serious interview
2:50on a network broadcast globally uh uh
2:54with a uh monologue an interview a panel
2:56discussion before a live audience with
2:58guests who have experienced some some
3:00form of cancellation from the left the
3:01right the up and the down all WIS it's
3:03not party political you obviously I
3:06remember that time and it was very
3:07unjust what happened to you you got
3:09canceled for literally reading a book
3:11and posting about having read the book
3:13it's absurd it offended me at the time
3:16uh not only of course were you right
3:18because of course the book was critical
3:20of the far-left extreme we have since
3:22seen how the far-left extreme manifested
3:25itself not only in the fake appropriated
3:27and hijacked anti-racism movement called
3:29B&M uh using the donations that went to
3:32them to buy Mansions $95 million it was
3:35a scam right and I was saying on air it
3:37was a scam before LBC canceled me but
3:39that the host the host of that show has
3:41been cancelled which would be me and the
3:43guests have experienced cancellation so
3:45you know that will bear fruit you stood
3:46by your principles and likewise you did
3:48and you're Rising again like a phoenix
3:51From the Ashes and I look forward to not
3:53only participating in that show but also
3:56watching the other episodes but this
3:57isn't about that this is about you
4:00and I want to um well what we want to
4:03discuss I think is and something we've
4:05been discussing privately is relations
4:08in Britain specifically between British
4:11non-muslims and British
4:13Muslims what it is to be British Islam
4:16in Britain I want to get into
4:18deradicalization and there's some big
4:20questions about what it is that unites
4:22all of us and I think both of us have
4:24have shown great concern about the
4:26direction of the country I want to start
4:28though with the group grooming gangs
4:30yeah if I may because of course this is
4:32in the news this the news because Elon
4:34Musk has given it Global attention via X
4:38you and I have been talking about it in
4:40our own work for some time in fact you
4:42have had severe punishment or rather I
4:45should say backlash I've noticed not
4:47only this week from other British
4:50Muslims like Muhammad hijab and Dilly
4:52Hussein but also historically so you
4:55part you co-founder of quum and in 2017
4:58you did a report on the groomy gangs not
5:01only that there's been a video of you
5:03this perfect I would say magnificent
5:06rant if a rant can be
5:08magnificent you know decrying the
5:11scandal of uh the rape gangs I think was
5:14is for when you're at LBC I'm not sure
5:15what LC that's right that was um so look
5:18let's talk about the grooming guns
5:19because this this is what everyone seems
5:22to care about and maybe we start with
5:25your report your 2017 report is that a
5:26good a good place to to start like what
5:29what you show in 2017 why is that even
5:32now coming back up in the discourse
5:35people are saying it's de British
5:36Muslims like those I've mentioned said
5:38it been debunked what to someone who's
5:41not following can you explain the story
5:43yeah of course so uh first of all let me
5:45start by saying that the uh report
5:47you've just referred to wasn't authored
5:49by me it was authored by the director of
5:50quilliam UK uh Harris Rafi British
5:53Pakistani like me of course I was the
5:55founder of quum so you know it's under
5:57our umbrella but he authored it I didn't
6:00write the specific text in the report
6:02but I stand by the conclusions of the
6:04report with the caveat that it is out of
6:06date so you mentioned the word debunked
6:09what's debunked is the fact that at the
6:12time there were 27 UK cities that had
6:15suffered from uh British Pakistani
6:17underage rape grooming gangs today there
6:21are 41 towns and cities so GB news say
6:24have reported up to 50 right that's
6:26probably the case the 41 figure I'm
6:28getting from the D recent Daily Mail
6:30article with a interactive map which um
6:33I encourage everybody to look at and
6:34it's got each town and city with a red
6:36dot you can open up you can see the
6:37names with all the mug shots of all
6:39those who are convicted in this
6:41organized uh sex crime now uh the report
6:46what it did um and why it was uh why it
6:49was in terms of in a in a conversation
6:51sense why it was groundbreaking not that
6:53it didn't break the news of underage
6:55grooming or rape gangs because that news
6:57was already out there the work had
6:59already been done since at least 2003 by
7:01a brave and crier MP labor MP at the
7:05time now she came to see me at quum and
7:07she was desperate and she was a lone
7:10voice and she said I see you as somebody
7:12that would address this and I'm pleading
7:14with you to raise this it's a travesty I
7:16was shocked at what she told me and I
7:19could see the sincerity in her face and
7:20I like to think I can understand if
7:21somebody's blagging me or not right and
7:23she was really really worried about this
7:25she was MP for Ram at the time she was I
7:27think roale I can't remember don't quote
7:30me where where she was but she she you
7:31know she raised this and then of course
7:34we began looking into it from there
7:36because she came asking for personal
7:38help and the rest is history we know of
7:41those who followed the case know that
7:42labor MP sah Champion tried to raise it
7:45everybody who tried to raise it suffered
7:47some form of extreme severe backlash and
7:49I want to get to why that happened in a
7:51minute but the report uh what we the the
7:54groundbreaking element of it was we
7:56classified type one and type two
7:58offenses we said look we understand
8:00which is what the apparent so-called
8:02debunking by those who are dog whistling
8:05for pedophilia are alleging right they
8:08say look uh the figure that the report
8:11mentions in terms of 80s something per
8:13of uh uh UK uh grooming gangs are by
8:16British Pakistani Muslim men right that
8:18figure's been de debunked first point
8:21yeah of course it has because there are
8:23now 41 or 50 or whatever cities whereas
8:26then there were 27 right so the Fig was
8:2884% yeah so of course the the figure is
8:31going to be different now because there
8:33are that much many more cases let's put
8:35the specific percentage aside and
8:37understand something there's two types
8:39of offenses when it comes to under sex
8:41crimes and those are
8:43solitary pedophiles these are stereo
8:45type of a pedophile that we all are
8:47aware of that creepy old man behind the
8:49bike sheds yeah solitary pedophilia in
8:52this country is roughly proportionate
8:54give or take five or 10 you no 0 to 5%
8:58roughly proportionate to the ethnic
8:59makeup of the country that's what you'd
9:01expect to see in any normal crime
9:04pattern and that is a proportionate
9:06representative of criminals in every
9:08Community because that's human nature
9:10human nature is that some of us do bad
9:13things when you look at that's and that
9:15is type two by the way the solitary loan
9:18creepy ped the fall behind the bike shed
9:19is type two type two offense type one
9:22that we classified in that report is
9:25underage sex rape or statutory rape
9:28criminal uh sex abuse with underage uh
9:32uh victims in a organized gang context
9:36which is very different to solitary
9:38behind the bike shed creepy man right be
9:40why is it different because when it's in
9:42or in an organized gang context you are
9:45that you're doing many things that the
9:47creepy man behind the bike shed isn't
9:48doing one of them is you're normalizing
9:52this behavior in a full view of
9:55everybody else in that gang context
9:57including uh including
10:00all those in the community because once
10:02it's organized in a gang context like
10:04drugs everyone knows who their local
10:05drug dealer is right it goes out into
10:07the open and now even in Islam let alone
10:10in our culture in Britain even in Islam
10:13when you normalize a crime that's a
10:15grave sin we as Muslims are commanded to
10:18forbid the bad command the good and
10:20forbid the bad this is the only reason
10:21these Muslim supremacists are in defense
10:23mode right now and refuse to admit
10:26there's a problem and they think that
10:28they are uh as is in the Quran itself
10:32right you are the best Nation brought
10:34forth to mankind that should not lend
10:37itself to any false notion of
10:38supremacism this passage that we're the
10:40best Nation brought forward to man I'm
10:42going to come back to who the Muslim
10:44supremacists are a little bit later the
10:46because that is caveated that the only
10:49reason we could ever be considered to be
10:51favored from God is because of the
10:52content of our character if the content
10:54of our character lapses then that favor
10:56is removed and that very same passage
10:58mentions it
11:01you're the most favored nation brought
11:03to mankind
11:06why because you command the good and you
11:07forbid the bad right the word used is M
11:11for bad right m means something which is
11:13rejected completely and entirely by
11:15society when you commit underage uh uh
11:19sex abuse in a gang context in an
11:21organized gang context you are you are
11:23making it public you're no longer hiding
11:26your creepy self behind the bike shed
11:28that's why it's a different category of
11:29offense and it's also I said it does
11:31many things as well as normalizing
11:33criminal Behavior it does other things
11:36it makes it more efficient because once
11:37you're organized in a gang context
11:40you've got a Supply route for drugs
11:41you've got a Supply route for the girls
11:43you've got a driver who picks the girls
11:45up you've got an abuser waiting in the
11:46room you got somebody else who delivers
11:48the uh narcotics right you got somebody
11:50on Lookout outside you're making the
11:52whole thing a lot more efficient in an
11:54organized context add to that the power
11:57that you have in an organized context so
11:59in 2002 Lord rotheram which is a trigger
12:03case for these grooming gangs rotheram
12:05it's well known right Lord Nazir Ahmed
12:07was Lord of rotheram a labor party peer
12:10in 2002 he was convicted for underage
12:14child sex abuse go and look at the BBC
12:16article it's a headline story and the
12:18only reason that didn't capture our
12:20imagination is because obviously uh uh
12:23sorry I said 2002 2022 it we've come off
12:26the back of what covid and everything
12:27we've been very distracted
12:29when you organize it in a gang context
12:32the final thing I'm going to say about
12:33why it's worse is because I said it
12:35makes it more efficient if you've got
12:37the power to to compromise politicians
12:42such as members of Our House of Lords by
12:46uh having them uh come into those sorts
12:49of environments where these criminal uh
12:51uh this criminal conduct conduct is
12:53being perpetrated you've then got them
12:56engaged in criminal sex acts right and
12:59then as an organized gang you can then
13:01manipulate them this is exactly how you
13:03think ammed was manipulated by an
13:06organized gang well he was certainly
13:07manipulated the fact that the fact that
13:09he got the fact that by the end of it
13:10how he got caught he was he was
13:11basically uh molesting boys he so he got
13:15sentenced to three and a half years and
13:17he's convicted for raping a
13:18nine-year-old boy he only served six
13:20months yeah well by the way this is
13:23exactly how the craze operated and we
13:24know from the historic um story of The
13:27Craze that they were manipulating
13:29politicians but but this is exactly how
13:30they operated this is if anyone looks
13:32into the craze you can see it yeah right
13:34so if you watch the Winston Marsh show
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14:59Winston and by supporting sponsors of
15:02this show I remind you you are
15:03supporting this show
15:06also it's a well-known tried and tested
15:09technique and and that is called it's
15:11it's it has a political science term
15:13it's called
15:19comomatz Ahmed so that you can then say
15:23hang it over them right over their heads
15:25and say I've got this on you you need to
15:27do what I say so this is a whole other
15:29dynamic because of course uh people
15:31following will understand that the
15:33grooming gang Scandal it's kind of
15:34completely in the whole fabric of our
15:37nation it wasn't just a failure of the
15:39ideology of mass migration of
15:41multiculturalism or it's a failure of
15:43multiculturalism I say but it's also
15:45local police failed local Council failed
15:49politicians failed but now it's also I I
15:53hadn't put this dynamic in it but also
15:55that they were these gangs were
15:56deliberately capturing politicians local
15:59police and local uh councils and uh
16:01Social Services didn't fail they didn't
16:04they were complicit failure indicates
16:06that they were caught off guard and
16:08didn't know how to to behave Maggie
16:10Oliver who is a former police detective
16:13who was investigating a lot of these uh
16:15underage rape grooming gang cases makes
16:19the very same allegation that they were
16:21covering it up that's different to
16:23failing failing would indicate a mistake
16:26covering it up uh indicates deliberate
16:29intent now of course not every single
16:30police officer not every single local
16:32counselor and not every single uh care
16:35care worker is complicit that's like not
16:37every single British Pakistani Muslim is
16:39complicit let's stop being emotional
16:42about this conversation nobody is
16:43alleging every single Pakistani in
16:45Britain is a sex pest every single
16:46police officer is a criminal corrupt uh
16:49uh bribe taker every single Lo local
16:51counselor is a pedophile nobody's
16:52alleging that that's let's make that
16:54very clear we're saying that there are
16:57uh points of failure in police in local
17:00councils in care workers and in uh uh uh
17:03Westminster politicians and in our local
17:06Pakistani British communities those
17:08points of failure are complicit not uh
17:12accidental they were uh deliberately set
17:14up to fail because this was an organized
17:17operation not just on the street level
17:18with the British Pakistani gangs but
17:20actually this organization went through
17:22into the police into the councils and
17:24into the care workers and how this was
17:26covered up so the Scandal credit where
17:28credit is du Elon
17:30Musk uh interfered with our How We Do
17:33politics in this country by trying to
17:34unsee Nigel farage but credit where it's
17:36due because he raised it at least and
17:38has had this com the Scandal isn't that
17:41this had happened what El may or may not
17:43have known is we knew this had happened
17:44a long time ago everyone was aware of
17:46the grooming gang uh uh Scandal the
17:48Times newspaper ran a front page on it
17:50the Scandal now the current 20205
17:53Scandal is the cover up and that's why
17:55Magie Oliver's voice is so important
17:58because the cover up up was
18:00orchestrated because K stama as director
18:03of public prosecutions at the time and
18:06that for those who aren't British uh
18:08that's the head of our Crown prosecution
18:10service the director of public
18:12prosecutions DPP he makes the decision
18:15whom to prosecute and who not to
18:16prosecute right uh and and they are
18:19allowed in the name of public interest
18:21not to prosecute certain cases that's
18:22one of their criteria um K starma was
18:25the DPP director of that at the time and
18:28chose not to prosecute a very well-known
18:33case in these underage rape grooming
18:35gang Scandal cases he chose not to
18:37prosecute it despite the fact that the
18:39DNA of the man was found on the girl's
18:40underwear he chose not to prosecute
18:43Maggie Oliver makes this very specific
18:45allegation but it's also a matter of
18:46record anyway right now there's an
18:48example of the cover up right that's the
18:50same K St who chose not to prosecute sir
18:52Jimmy savil when he was DPP that's the
18:55same K stama who now despite all of this
18:58having come out wants to appoint Lord
19:00mandon as our ambassador to America
19:02despite the fact mandon is known not in
19:05dispute known to have uh visited
19:07Epstein's Island to have gone to
19:09Epstein's uh Mansion in New York after
19:11Epstein's conviction and to have gone to
19:13Paris with Epstein for his birthday now
19:15all of this doesn't imply guilt on for
19:17mandelson what it means is there are
19:19many many questions that require answers
19:23and it does point to a cover up and so
19:25finally I'll say that's why we need and
19:28it's a demand it's no longer a request
19:30we are demanding and they can't run from
19:32this they can't hide from this we will
19:33not Retreat we will not surrender we
19:35because the children are more important
19:36we don't care they can bring anything
19:38they can throw anything at us the
19:39children are more important we are
19:41demanding a national inquiry and if
19:43starma doesn't get out of our way there
19:45will be a national inquiry on his head
19:47we are demanding a national inquiry
19:49because these what I've raised here
19:51they're all questions I'm not accusing
19:52starm of being a pedophile I'm not
19:54accusing manderson of being a pedophile
19:55I'm saying there are questions that need
19:56to be answered and only a national
19:58inquiry can answer those questions it
20:00looks to me like and listen I called
20:032020 with Trump I called Ukraine I
20:05called covid and I've I've suffered for
20:07it I'm prepared to take the this looks
20:10to me like there was a cover up and
20:11there are questions that need answers
20:13yeah probably why we we it's curious why
20:16they did that labor didn't want an
20:18inquiry although as we speak Sarah
20:21Champion as mentioned before who Jeremy
20:23Corbin was forced to resign in 2017 from
20:25his shadow cabinet because she wrote in
20:26the Sun that it's a problem of Pakistani
20:28British men uh abusing white British
20:32girls um she has now said come out and
20:34said they want a national inquiry
20:36Manchester mayor Andy Burnham said that
20:38there's a few Pro Big labor voices now
20:40blue labor Morris Glassman have said no
20:42we need a national inquir so it seems
20:43like that aspect will change um or or
20:47rather so it's there's a turning in the
20:49the direction that you and I would like
20:51to see yeah on the grooming gangs itself
20:55there's I want to understand a little
20:58bit bit about why this happened and we
21:00we've touched on that there's
21:02disagreement and I to if we can rewind
21:05to an earlier point you made which is
21:07that there's a bait and switch that
21:08happens that in in the stats they say
21:10look at National statistics on CSE and
21:13actually it's proportionate to the
21:15population but as you you say if you
21:17actually look at gang csse it's it's
21:20didn't it's not the same and it's
21:21disproportionate for British Pakistani
21:24uh men highly disproportionate highly
21:26disproportionate so just leaving side or
21:29the the the huge edifice that's built on
21:31top of this heinous crime which has
21:34included of course like murder of young
21:36British girls what is going on that this
21:39would even happen in the first place
21:40what is the what is the motivation is it
21:44what's going on in these communities
21:47that this is even um happened so it is
21:52hugely disproportionate you're correct
21:54and and it behooves us to accept that
21:55which then points to it begs the
21:57question you've just asked why is it
22:00happening to say that this is a
22:02disproportionate problem among British
22:04pakistanis is no different to saying
22:06that the there is a disproportionate
22:07number of albanians running cocaine drug
22:10gangs in London aged it's not
22:12controversial right it's been made
22:14controversial on purpose by the labor
22:16party in government who are using racism
22:19and so-called islamophobia I think
22:21that's a misn I use the phrase
22:23anti-muslim bigotry and I don't think we
22:25go into now why it's a misn let's just
22:27oh let's come back to that
22:29later definition of for the moment I'll
22:31use anti-muslim bigotry or anti-muslim
22:33hate which is a real thing right um but
22:35K starm just as racism is a real thing I
22:38mean you know K starm is hiding behind
22:40racism and anti-muslim big well he did
22:42call them in his press conference he
22:44said he used the term Asian grooming
22:46gangs so it's it's almost like that's
22:48like saying Eastern European London
22:50cocaine gangs come on man they're
22:53Albanian man come on I've got like
22:55they're Albanian they're Pakistani and
22:57yes they're
22:59jaes you know at the end of the day
23:02that's what we deal with probably the
23:03majority of sex tourists in Thailand are
23:04white I mean come on let's just be let's
23:06just stop pandering to rubbish when it
23:09comes to speaking about real serious
23:12problems and you know they called them
23:15Asian in America Asian means Chinese and
23:18Japanese by the way it doesn't mean
23:20South Asian right so it's very confusing
23:22for people if you go to America and you
23:24say
23:25Oriental they're going to think you're
23:26being racist but also it's even more
23:28specific than South Asian that's what I
23:30mean it's British Pakistan right so
23:31let's stop pandering to and for the for
23:34my British Pakistani fellow you know
23:36brothers sisters my community that's
23:38literally I'm British Pakistani Muslim
23:40right I me literally from this community
23:42my dad 83-year-old father fought for
23:47Pakistan in the war against India on the
23:50bad warship right he's been in the Seas
23:52lobbing missiles at India uh with the
23:55Pakistani Navy I mean come on right we
23:56are a Pakistani family yeah
23:59we've got to admit where there's
24:01problems in our own Community we've got
24:02to be real about this because uh once
24:05you you can't address the problem if you
24:07don't diagnose the problem and we're Mis
24:09we're deliberately misdiagnosing it as
24:11racist and and I understand there's a
24:13concern that this is going to cause some
24:15form of uh edl style um but that that's
24:19why it'll be an edl style if we don't
24:20talk about it and we don't deal with it
24:21so let's yeah so so and actually that is
24:24a little bit of what we've we've seen
24:26the more the government don't deal with
24:27things the more that's when you have a
24:29backlash that's why you had NOS Le and I
24:30I think that's part of what happened in
24:32the August rights but what is the
24:33problem then the problem is
24:34multiculturalism in this country has
24:36failed it's and we said it a long time
24:38ago this isn't new they just never
24:40listened to us you know we've been
24:41talking about this for many years and
24:42there's a reason I shut quam down uh
24:44when covid hit it was by the end of it
24:47it became a useless Endeavor because
24:49nobody was listening why am I sitting
24:51here now I you you ask me for a long
24:53time cuz now's the time for me to come
24:55back I've been Subterranean for 4 years
24:57people weren't listening to such extent
24:58they're literally trying to raise my
24:59voice right we haven't stopped we've
25:02carried on right Quil Zogo went from
25:04green to Black because I'm saying when
25:06now literally you're treating us like
25:07Pirates or behave like a pirate but the
25:09fact is people are going to start
25:10listening that the multiculturalism
25:12failed in this country and the people
25:14responsible let's start from Tony Blair
25:16onwards right at the end of the day Kama
25:19is a Blair right backin government and
25:21they are destroying this country they're
25:24using racism and islamophobia as a
25:26shield to conceal their own licit
25:28behavior in uh in in these uh sex abuse
25:32cases across the country but not just
25:33across country around the world why has
25:36he appointed Merson as our ambassador to
25:38the US that needs an answer I got
25:39canceled for Less yeah but but sorry
25:42multiculturalism fail I agree that
25:44multiculturalism failed because there's
25:45been no dialogue about what is the
25:46common culture that we all share there's
25:48no proper dialogue about integration and
25:50there's not been since toally Blair
25:52started uh Mass migration which has been
25:54tobo charged by the Tories we agree on
25:56that I think but what that isn't the why
26:00is it that these girls were targeted if
26:02you read the testimonies they the girls
26:04will say they are racially abused
26:06because they're not Muslim what is it
26:09about that that aspect of that culture
26:12that is that this would happen in the
26:14first place it's not that we don't have
26:16seat gangs on the contrary seat gangs
26:18have seat girls have been targeted in
26:20the same way that other non other
26:22British government if you don't if you
26:23don't feel like you belong in a country
26:25uh for whatever reason in this case if
26:27there's there's a methodology at play
26:29and there's ideological indoctrination
26:31at play which is deliberately uh it's
26:34deliberately separating or atomizing
26:37certain communities from wider Society
26:40on purpose akin to the process of
26:43radicalization right and it's
26:45dehumanizing the other if you had to
26:48manipulate drug beat and rape underage
26:53children every day you'd need some form
26:55of coping mechanism these gangs are
26:57providing the coping coping mechanism
26:59and that is through a process of you
27:01being allowed permitted to dehumanize
27:03that other either because they're white
27:05or because they're non-muslim that is a
27:08uh it's a deliberately seeded coping
27:10mechanism so that you can continue
27:11working for the drug gang so akin to the
27:14process of radicalization if you look at
27:16the convicted Oxford case for example
27:18now we've done this work by the way
27:20because you know we've worked with the
27:21uh convicted criminals across the sector
27:23when it comes to deradicalization we've
27:24been into the prisons right I'll tell
27:27you that in the uh sex offenders uh
27:30section in the prison in Oxford when
27:31these people came in they continued
27:34justifying their behavior in the name of
27:36their culture which part of the culture
27:38is their false religious justification
27:41uh for this behavior I'm not sure why
27:43people are so shocked we know Isis has
27:45been doing this for a long time in Syria
27:47and parts of Iraq they have dehumanized
27:49the yaid and false religious
27:51justification so they are using so it's
27:54because their understanding of Islam is
27:58is that is that if I I'm trying to
28:00understand this right because their
28:01Islamic Islam which you think is
28:02completely false is the motivating
28:05factor plus a a a and the other is gangs
28:09deliberately trying to control other
28:11people in their own Community Islam is
28:13not the cause for this problem but their
28:15view on how Islam treats the quote
28:18unquote Infidel is a factor in their
28:21behavior just as their uh uh their view
28:25on them girls being white is a factor so
28:27ra that's racism not Islam because of
28:29course you can be a white Muslim right
28:30so the fact they're non-muslim is a
28:32factor the fact they're white racism is
28:34a factor their view on Islam is a factor
28:37their uh their desire to uh profit from
28:40this criminal or Enterprise is a factor
28:43right these are all factors which we
28:45would do well to recognize and if you're
28:47asking me that is their view on Islam
28:49their misinterpretation deliberate
28:51misinterpretation of Islam a factor yes
28:53it is let's get to Muhammad hijab let's
28:55get to Mr D so are these the Muslim
28:57suprem
28:58these are Muslim supremacists they are
29:00Street Preachers who are selftaught uh
29:03Muhammad hijab is on air on video uh
29:07preaching to new Muslim sneo a social
29:09media influencer from America who
29:11doesn't know uh his religion he's still
29:13learning it and hijab is there direct
29:15quote from the video says pedophilia is
29:19very relative yeah I saw that that's a
29:20direct quote right now he's saying the
29:23reason he's saying that let's understand
29:26what let's give him let's steal man him
29:28yeah let's still man him to be fair what
29:30he's trying to say and getting wrong
29:32what he's trying to say is that uh every
29:35society has its own legal uh um uh age
29:39of consent right so France is different
29:40to Britain is different to America now
29:42the problem there is and I said it to
29:44him I said you absolute idiot literally
29:46I'm furious with him I said pedophilia
29:48is a clinical term you idiot right why
29:51are you teaching new Muslims their
29:53religion on camera when the whole world
29:55can see and saying pedophilia is very
29:58very relative that's why saying murder
30:00is very
30:02relative because what you're talking
30:04about if you're saying murder is
30:05relative you're talking about killing
30:06for example killing in war is different
30:09to killing in the death sentence is
30:11different to killing somebody illegally
30:13which is murder they're all killing but
30:16murder is the criminal act of killing
30:18you can't say murder is very relative
30:20when you're talking about abstract you
30:22say killing is relative so pedophilia is
30:24a clinical and criminal term right so
30:28first of all your entire content is
30:30wrong you've got it wrong from the
30:31beginning and also your tone was wrong
30:34your T you don't approach a sensitive
30:36subject like this and leave everyone
30:38with the impression that if not for the
30:41law you'd be perfectly happy perving on
30:4313-year-old uh children as long as quote
30:45by the way I'm not being unfair to the
30:46guy as long as they've got round hips
30:48and big breasts which is literally what
30:50he said in the well there's another
30:51video of him I think at High Park
30:53Speakers Corner I think he's younger in
30:56this video that I saw and he's arguing
30:58that according to the Quran it's not
31:00Halal for to be with prepubescent women
31:03girls so he he says in that video that
31:05in the again let's still man him what he
31:07says in that video is there's nothing
31:09explicit in the Quran that prohibits
31:11prepubescent marriage right that's what
31:14he's saying right the reason he's saying
31:16that in that video is because he's
31:17arguing against somebody who rejects all
31:19Hadith and he's saying he's trying to
31:21say to that person you have to accept
31:23Hadith to be able to restrict
31:25prepubescent marriage because it's not
31:27explicitly prohibit in the Quran
31:29technically right technically that is a
31:32descriptive a description of the Quran
31:35right but again I see okay yeah it's
31:36it's wrong it's wrong why is it wrong
31:38though because as I've tried to explain
31:40to him directly and to many other people
31:43Islam does restrict minimum age of
31:46marriage it does restrict it it
31:48restricts it by something called In
31:50traditional Islamic Juris Prudence is
31:52accepted by all traditional Islamic
31:54scholars means custom right you are obl
31:57Ed as a Muslim on areas that are
31:59deferred to because the Islamic Juris
32:02Prudential um uh term for when you're
32:05allowed to marry a woman is when she
32:06reaches maturity mental and physical
32:09maturity maturity as a as a phrase is
32:13left to the custom to decide what
32:15maturity means right and so the minimum
32:17age for marriage in Britain is left to
32:19the custom of Britain and part of the
32:22custom and tradition of Britain is the
32:23law but even Above the Law there's more
32:26custom right so we know there's a differ
32:28between rape and statutory rape and so
32:30even when you're in a for example
32:31codependent context you could
32:33statutorily rape somebody who's above
32:35the age of consent for example in
32:36certain contexts such as teaching so uh
32:40all of that is part of the custom so
32:42that's how you approach this
32:43conversation if you're trying to preach
32:45Islam You Begin by saying it's not
32:46allowed you explain why it's not allowed
32:48you explain the custom of the country
32:49the person is in right and build up from
32:52there and saying therefore the Islamic
32:54ruling on underage sex is you must obey
32:57the law of the land that is the Islamic
32:58ruling because of this point of Orphan
33:00custom hijab has got it completely the
33:03wrong way around he started with the
33:05literalist view on when Muhammad married
33:08Aisha right now again if you understand
33:11what I've just said about custom you'll
33:13understand that the custom for BNS back
33:14then was very different to the custom
33:16today even in Britain the custom 200
33:18years ago was different to the custom do
33:20you think Muhammad did the prophet
33:21Muhammad did marry Aisha her age is a
33:23matter of great dispute because Ed came
33:25on the definitely married her her age is
33:27age six no no no no I don't think so CU
33:31what so what is the what is the story
33:34about that because it seems like it's an
33:35I've heard other Muslims talk about that
33:38and use it as justification is what is
33:41what would you say is the truth about
33:43Prophet Muhammad's wife AA the truth is
33:46he did marry Aisha that's that's a fact
33:48um he married her in according to the
33:50custom of what was with the desert BNS
33:53at the time right and that age is
33:55because they didn't keep age right so my
33:57dad by the way this helps explain it my
33:59dad I said he's 83 yeah my Pakistani
34:02Navy uh War veteran father he's 83
34:05because he guessed his birth date of
34:07birth but if they're guessing that she's
34:09six is right no they're not that that's
34:11not in the Hadith six that's not that's
34:12that part's not even in the Hadith
34:14anyway so the the question is so where
34:15did that number is people aren't really
34:17aware of the theological but the number
34:19is 11 that you really want to be looking
34:21at right which is when they got married
34:22uh is when they consumated which
34:23allegedly when they consumated the
34:25marriage right they're guessing the age
34:27now the thing is that's that's not
34:29that's not anything to go by when you
34:30understand Islamic jurisprudence you
34:32can't you're not going to
34:33retrospectively try and apply a number
34:36to a desert
34:37bedin if you're going to do that you can
34:39go to Moses you can go to Jesus you can
34:41go to all of the prophets and start
34:43doing the same thing right and you end
34:45up in a lot of trouble because it
34:46doesn't work of course it doesn't work
34:48guessing their ages a lot of the a lot
34:51of the Old Testament prophets are
34:52engaged in relationships with uh various
34:56VAR whether it's in marri out marriage a
34:58lot of these stories do you think Jesus
35:00was no not Jesus but a lot of these
35:02stories uh when you look at them
35:04retrospectively with the uh or
35:06anachronistically with today's lenson
35:08they're going to start looking very
35:10strange because it's a dangerous thing
35:12to do to try and apply the customs of
35:14what we what we think is normal today
35:17retrospectively on people back then now
35:19people in response to this will say yeah
35:21but the prophet's perfect surely
35:23everything he did literally is what you
35:25Muslims follow right that's again not
35:28true it's absolutely not true that
35:30everything he did literally is what we
35:31follow that's literally the literalists
35:33perspective on it and why are we uh
35:36validating the literalist approach to
35:39interpreting scripture even as a
35:40non-muslim right that's my issue with
35:42people he like don't tell me what the
35:44religion is because you've been reading
35:45Al-Qaeda manuals don't tell me what the
35:47religion is because you've been
35:48listening to Muhammad hijab there's a
35:50for example on this point of following
35:52the prophet literally yeah uh there's a
35:55very specific Hadith in Arabic where he
35:56says
35:59which means you're better aware than me
36:01as a prophet him on your day on your
36:04worldly Affairs and that was in the
36:05context of crops and how to plant crops
36:08and he somebody asked him how to plant
36:10crops and he said do this and the crops
36:12failed and then the person came back to
36:14him and said prophet of God you told me
36:16what how to plant crops and the crops
36:18failed and he
36:21says you know better than me about your
36:23worldly affs what you asking me for in
36:24the first place this among many many
36:26other scripture uh uh Traditions
36:29indicate that we don't just copy
36:31literally so marriage and Aisha right
36:36the prophet engaged in marriage
36:38according to the customs of the bedwin
36:40desert tradition which in those days
36:42when you didn't have social welfare when
36:44you had Wars and men getting killed in
36:46wars and Caravans being raided and no
36:49street lights where women could be
36:51attacked because you're in a Pitch Black
36:53Desert the Customs around marriage with
36:56marriage not teenage promiscuity with
36:58the approval of the uh tribe were very
37:01different they were very different and
37:03they were what they defined as maturity
37:05was the onset of puberty right and they
37:07had a very specific marker for puberty
37:09and that was menstruation now those
37:11Customs have changed did Islam specify a
37:14specific uh minimum age for marriage it
37:18said yes it did it said you refer to the
37:20customs of the society you live in and
37:22you follow those and that is the very
37:24simple answer to this issue right and so
37:26Islam wasn't silent on it and Islam
37:29didn't say it's legal to marry an 11year
37:32old it said it's not legal you follow
37:34the customs of the society you're in and
37:37that is what is legal and that's what
37:38you're obliged to follow but then it
37:39sounds like it's still a problem if
37:42Muhammad married Aisha at 11 that still
37:44seems to be part of the problem with
37:46what's going on today is with
37:47literalists yeah with literalists
37:50because whether it's 6 or 11 it's still
37:52a child right so it's is that 11's also
37:55a figure I'm not I'm saying that that's
37:57the figure they use I'm saying forget
37:58six that's just ridiculous but 11 is a
38:00figure that is out there I'm saying I'm
38:01I'm not even because these are guesses
38:03right could be 15 it could have been 18
38:06this is something which people are
38:07retrospectively trying to guess the age
38:09of somebody who had reached menstruation
38:11right and they're trying to work out
38:13what you know what age that was from
38:172025 I'm saying that none of that
38:19matters in the first place if you not
38:21understand that we follow the custom of
38:23the society we're in the age itself the
38:26specific age becomes irrelevant because
38:28even those who claim it was 11 don't say
38:30therefore that 11 uh is the age even
38:33even the literalist they don't say 11 is
38:35the age they say oh because she was 11
38:38it means there's no there's no uh lower
38:39limit which is the the problem I'm
38:41saying that they have with their
38:42interpretation because that's that's the
38:44wrong element and and and it's also if
38:47they believe that which you don't that
38:49the prophet was perfect everything he
38:51did was perfect then that's where you
38:53get into a kind of jumble of those
38:54exactly because the Perfection element
38:56that's in matters of re Revelation this
38:58isn't a matter of Revelation and that's
39:00something again traditionally Scholars
39:01all accept right that how he dressed is
39:04not a matter of Revelation the fact he
39:06wrode camels are not automobiles is not
39:09a matter of Revelation right the fact
39:11that he wore a turban and not a woolly
39:13hat is not a matter of Revelation so the
39:15Perfection element is in matters of
39:18Revelation or Dean or religion right so
39:21for example he taught us how to pray he
39:23taught us how to wash before prayer he
39:25taught these are matters of religion
39:27right outside of those which is back to
39:31thatth in the worldly matters or which
39:34is what the specific text of the Hadith
39:36says in the matters of the world these
39:38are not matters of Revelation in battle
39:41uh and it's no secret the prophet you
39:43know engaged in battle we're not
39:45pacifists there are certain times when
39:47war is just in matters of battle
39:50strategy he was questioned on the
39:51battlefield is that the best strategy
39:53should you behind the mountain or in
39:54front of the mountain these are real
39:55examples and he said sure and he would
39:57take Counsel on these matters that's
39:58known as sh to take counsel so the
40:02Perfection again it's the that's why I
40:04say these are self-taught Street
40:06Preachers who don't understand not only
40:09the the scripture that they're
40:10attempting to preach on the streets but
40:12also their tone they don't understand
40:15how to approach discussing this in a
40:17manner that is that is helpful instead
40:19of harmful so what's if if um on these
40:22Muslim supremacists or these these types
40:24like Muhammad hijab what's I've been
40:26concerned about is their voices are the
40:28loudest yeah and so I think this is
40:31added added to the division because the
40:34fair when most
40:37British non-muslims probably don't have
40:39that many British Muslim friends and the
40:41ones they do hear from are these types
40:43because they're going on Pi Morgan Dilly
40:44Hussein the like and and we hear them we
40:47go oh my goodness I mean even sorry if I
40:49can go just to to hammer the point of
40:52how worried I am about this because by
40:54the way I thought you the quilliam lads
40:56haris Rafi mentioned and uh Ed Hussein
40:59were the that great voice before covid
41:02and and and um as you said you've
41:05disbanded um quilan but uh even last
41:08month sayi the conservative Lord Pier
41:13yeah endorsed a report by the Muslim
41:17Council of Britain I.E the most
41:19prominent voices of what is supposed to
41:21be the normal voice of British Muslims
41:25which said that the grooming gangs
41:27were so-called I quote socalled and put
41:30grooming gangs in um inverted comments
41:34so that there was last month Yeah by way
41:37as mainstream as you come sayi I've been
41:39doing that because they're actually
41:40underage rap gangs so I don't that's not
41:42what they meant I know I know I know but
41:44just to explain to people why I'm doing
41:46that is because they're underage rap
41:47grooming is too soft a term on them
41:49agreed but they they they they see the
41:52implication is absolutely that they were
41:54underplaying what they was I know I'm
41:56aware I'm aware yeah so you know we it's
41:58not just these guys that I would say
42:01radicals Dilly Hussein I want to
42:03understand Five Pillars as well but so
42:05this is the picture this is what I'm so
42:06worried about country D husin is a
42:08former member of hisb which against my
42:11advice is now a prescribed organization
42:12in Britain I don't think it should be
42:13but nevertheless it is it shouldn't be
42:15it's not a terrorist organization um
42:17it's an extremist organization but
42:18that's a different topic fact is he's a
42:20former affiliate of his Batar if I said
42:23member definitely an affiliate it could
42:24have been a Daris or a his they had two
42:27stages of membership and affiliation um
42:30and he has been he had been uh
42:31throughout his youth uh and so that
42:33explains his uh his behavior and uh
42:36hijab I believe is a Muslim supremacist
42:38but you mentioned wasi and the others at
42:39the end of the day there is a culture of
42:42denial that has been allowed to pervade
42:44our so-called Community leaders and the
42:46problem with these Community leaders is
42:48they act as Gatekeepers for the
42:50discourse they refuse to allow any
42:53descent on the established discourse uh
42:56and anyone who seeks to question uh the
43:00uh established discourse among these
43:01Community leaders is immediately Outcast
43:04and you've witnessed how that happens
43:05with us I don't care I've seen it you
43:07only this week the amount of push back
43:09you get from these people they they say
43:11you're not a real Muslim it's
43:13like it's appalling that they would like
43:16this but but let's let's also broaden it
43:18wi and and be and be fair right I've
43:20been cancelled by them but I was
43:22canceled by LBC for questioning Co I was
43:25canceled by let's call it poite Society
43:28for the for the co stuff and the Ukraine
43:30war when you go against your own tribe
43:32right you are punished I know that as
43:34well and and and the problem here is the
43:36problem here is why am I mentioning at
43:38this juncture though right not for
43:39sympathy is genuinely we need to start
43:42getting real if we don't recognize that
43:45the often not always but often the
43:47voices that are attracting the most hate
43:50are because they're onto something and
43:52they're over the Target and if we don't
43:53start in solidarity supporting them
43:56instead of conveniently letting them go
43:58by the wayside because they're but for
44:00the grace of God go I right and then
44:02thinking thank God that's not me what
44:04happens eventually is the [ __ ] show
44:05sorry for swearing on your show that we
44:07eventually see today that Britain is
44:09right what we needed to have done a long
44:11time ago was support what we were trying
44:13to do with counter extremism uh what you
44:16were trying to do with the antifa stuff
44:18right uh What uh we were trying to do on
44:21the covid stuff right or on the uh now
44:24on the grooming gang stuff this is all
44:26stuff that isn't new knew that people
44:28didn't support now look at Britain today
44:30right look at what happened as a result
44:31of us all standing on the sidelines so
44:34yes this wasi and the community
44:36Gatekeepers have whil he isn't a Muslim
44:38supremacist uh but she does have to move
44:40on these topics and whether she likes it
44:42or not she's going to need to move on
44:44this topic of underage rap gangs because
44:46the fact is there is a disproportionate
44:49number of British pakistanis engaged in
44:51the organized gang context of this type
44:53of underage sex crime just like that
44:56albanians in London are
44:57disproportionately represented in the
44:59drug trade that is not a controversial
45:01thing to say if it is a controversial
45:03thing to say uh then we're in a real
45:05problem because then we're in denial of
45:06facts and the denial of facts is what
45:08got us to this stage let's leave the
45:10figure it doesn't matter what the figure
45:12is that that Harris's report originally
45:13arrived at because even the case data is
45:15out of date now it's like double the
45:16cases or triple mean the the the% yeah
45:19the 84% because that figure was on an
45:22old report when the case data was at
45:24least a third of what it is now we've
45:25got more evidence now not yes right and
45:29if you let let me for W's sake let me
45:31just explain something to her calmly so
45:33I hope people listen to this rationally
45:34right I know I'm animated but everyone
45:36should be animated on the question of
45:37underage rape right but let me explain
45:40something calmly uh the the population
45:43of Britain's Muslims the percentage of
45:45Britain's Muslims is under 10% France is
45:4610% let's say we're around 6% in Britain
45:49right and and that's kind of rough rough
45:52right not all of those are Pakistani so
45:55let's be let's first of all remove the
45:57women because all of these those
45:59convicted for underage rape gangs are
46:01men M right so if Britain's Muslims are
46:036% take 50% away from that which is
46:05women and you end up with 3% of
46:07Britain's Muslims are adult males yeah
46:11but remember some of them are children
46:13right but still okay let's say 2.5% are
46:15adult males uh in Britain how many of
46:18those
46:192.5% are Pakistani now we all know that
46:22there's loads of somalis in this country
46:24there's loads of Afghans there's loads
46:25of Persians right all Muslims there's Lo
46:27of albanians are Muslims by the way
46:29right so so how many of that
46:322.5% adult male Muslims in Britain are
46:35Pakistani again let's be generous right
46:37let's say 1% even though there's loads
46:40of bangladeshis too right but let's and
46:41Indian Muslims I mean Muslims are from
46:43all over the place let's be generous as
46:45say 1% of that 2.5% of adult males in
46:48Britain are British Pakistani Muslims
46:51okay there therefore there should be if
46:54there's 1% of adult males in Britain who
46:56are pakist Muslims that should be
46:59proportionately uh uh represented in
47:02type one sexual offense cases which is
47:05the grooming gang or underage rape cases
47:07there should only be 1% of those crimes
47:11reflected right and in the fact that
47:14they are British Pakistani is that the
47:16case right even if the the the the
47:18report that Harris wrote is out of date
47:20now are we seeing a 1% figure this is
47:23what people need to get real with and
47:24understand right that there will be a
47:27hugely disproportionate number it will
47:29be way more than 1% of those crimes are
47:33uh perpetrated by British Pakistani
47:34Muslim men even if it was uh only 6% of
47:38type 1 offenses are underage rate gangs
47:41are pakistanis that's six times more
47:43than there should be and it's way more
47:44than 6% right so people don't understand
47:48the extent of the problem and the
47:50problem even in Pakistan exists it's
47:52called Bacha Bazi right everyone who is
47:54Pakistani knows exactly what I'm talking
47:56anyone who's Afghan knows exactly what
47:58I'm talking about bab Bazi is underage
48:02rape it happens in Pakistan it happens
48:04in uh Afghanistan and this culture has
48:06been brought here it's not Islamic but
48:09it's been uh brushed under the carpet by
48:11people who are in denial and uh to the
48:14extent where if you look up a so it's
48:16not Islamic but it's specific to that
48:18little corner of the world yeah yeah
48:19yeah but Justified of course always
48:21Justified but in fact even with the US
48:23Bas justified in in some Muslims try and
48:27justify yeah of course they will and and
48:29even if you look in uh Afghanistan when
48:32when NATO forces were there uh a slate
48:34article I believe it was slate the the
48:36US Army ordered ordered their troops to
48:40turn a blind eye to this right look up
48:42buta Bazi just search it online Bacha
48:44Bazi which is b a h a b a z i Bacha Bazi
48:49us Armed Forces Afghanistan turn a blind
48:52eye and you'll see the article right I'm
48:54happy to do it right now for you but I
48:55don't imagine this time and the fact is
48:56that this is a phenomenon let's get real
48:58Missi right baroness of the realm right
49:01let's get real this is a problem in
49:03Pakistan this is a problem in
49:04Afghanistan and it's now a problem in
49:06Britain by the way there's a methodology
49:07to it you got some old fat uncle right
49:11so the guy the leader of the uh one of
49:12these cases Ki ABD right Kari by the way
49:16Kari ABD ABD is his name Kari means it's
49:19a it's an honorific title you give
49:20somebody who has trained in the art of
49:23reading the
49:24Quran and he's is's in the art is in the
49:27news uh articles listed as Ki ABD the
49:29leader of the um I think that one was
49:31the Rochdale one right if memory serves
49:33me correctly he's wearing a prayer hat
49:35he's got a beard come on guys don't tell
49:37me this isn't a problem right right and
49:40the fact is that what they're doing is
49:42some fat uncle in his in his apartment
49:44above a shop somewhere is sending his
49:46nephew in a fast car to go to bloody uh
49:49uh uh uh you know uh vulnerable children
49:52offly them with drink drugs and all
49:55manner of Narcotics get them AB in that
49:57flat and then the uncle's like thank you
49:59sir and he's and he's and he's indulging
50:01himself right and and it's all
50:02normalized because it's all part of this
50:05underground horrific babasi culture now
50:08wasi knows that exists she knows for a
50:10fact that's a problem right to be in
50:13denial is is is because people are more
50:16concerned about PR image of Islam of
50:19Muslims in Britain and of making sure
50:21there isn't a racist backlash and by the
50:23way none of these people speaking have
50:24suffered racist attacks the way I have
50:26in the country none of them certainly
50:28not sedi right i'm talking violent
50:32physical knife stabbing growing up in
50:34ess6 I remember you also you were
50:36attacked in SoHo weren't you a few years
50:38AG that's what this scar is here which
50:39if you look closely you'll see but that
50:41that was one that was mild compared to I
50:43mean he tried to stab me in the eye with
50:44his key but that that was mild compared
50:46to what I've been through with with
50:47machete attacks and been arrested at 15
50:49by police at gunpoint after being
50:52profiled so I know what racism is in
50:54this country more so than the baroness
50:57of the realm more so than uh middle
50:59class uh Oxford educated uh Muslim
51:02supremacist Muhammad hijab frankly who
51:04tries to conceal from the people that
51:05he's Oxbridge educated right at the end
51:08of the day you know he's privileged
51:10compared to what I've been through I
51:11never went to Oxford never went to
51:12Cambridge and went to private school
51:14right these are all of them look like
51:16privileged kids to me um at the end of
51:18the day uh th this is a culture these
51:21people are worried about racism so
51:23they're on a hyper defense mode now it's
51:26legitimate to be worried about racism
51:28what they need to understand is the
51:30thing you're worried about is going to
51:31come back with a vengeance if you don't
51:33speak the truth exactly that's exactly
51:37the the way to deal with all of that the
51:39the worry about a backlash is to make
51:41sure that these evils don't happen in
51:43the first place you sort that out then
51:45there won't be a back Clash yeah look I
51:47want to get to the white pill The
51:49Optimist view of which I actually do
51:51have an optimistic opinion and I think
51:53we might share this and it's it plays
51:54out in the in the geopolitical side on
51:57the on the global um side and and I talk
51:59I'd like to talk about the emiratis and
52:01and others and the great things they're
52:03doing but if I can paint the black pill
52:05a little bit further because I I think
52:07it's worth exploring like the problem in
52:09Britain yeah so we've discussed what
52:11we've discussed as ready but there's um
52:14so recently in the houses of Parliament
52:17we we saw one labor EMP named tah Ali
52:20arguing in favor of blasphemy laws of of
52:23which Gordon Brown had outlawed in 2008
52:26we had an independent MP I ibar Muhammad
52:31I think was his name arguing the case
52:33for cousin marriage cousin marriage is
52:35another problem in um amongst British
52:39pakistanis FGM 135,000 victims of FGM in
52:43Britain that's not Pakistani that one
52:45it's not that would be Somali it could
52:46be Egyptian but mainly probably Somali
52:48because there's not a large Egyptian
52:49community in Britain yeah Pakistan is
52:51done engage in FGM right um like
52:53actually like it's probably around zero
52:55like yeah 0 1% or something it's not
52:58it's not an issue at all but it is still
53:00a problem if we're just if we're talking
53:02about Islam British Muslims British
53:04Muslims yeah um and then there's the
53:07Henry Jackson Society report from 2024
53:10which included this actually is quite
53:13we're talking about blasphemy law 52%
53:16according to this report want it to make
53:18it illegal to show Pro images of the um
53:21Prophet Muhammad
53:23um almost half of British Muslims say
53:26Jews have too much power over the UK
53:29Hamas is majority of British Muslims
53:31have a positive rather negative view of
53:34Hamas and 32% of British muslin favor
53:38implementation of sharia law we have 85
53:40Sharia courts according to a 2015 Daily
53:42Mail report so I paint I I just paint
53:47the the black pill again when we see
53:48these speeches in Parliament it and if
53:52if we're not familiar with Islam or the
53:54British Muslims it's really quite
53:55shocking yeah
53:57um H how should one make to add to all
54:01of this of course there's the APG
54:03definition of of islamophobia which I
54:06think misc conflates Islam I think we've
54:09touched on this earlier in this
54:10conversation as a as a uh race rather
54:12than a religion which is why you're
54:14right to point out the problem is
54:16anti-muslim hate rather than anti-islam
54:18we must be able to criticize all ideas
54:20and faiths um I know that you and I
54:23agree on this but I I'm I'm painting um
54:26the black pill because I want to get to
54:29the white pill and I think if we don't
54:31talk about what the problems are do you
54:32disagree with anything I've just said do
54:34you think that that's C of marriages
54:36needs to be stopped uh in Pakistani
54:38communities it's not good for your jeans
54:39it's not good for your it's not good for
54:41anything it's not good for your kids all
54:42of all of what you said uh anti-muslim
54:45hate is a more accurate term there's
54:46clips of me still up online from LBC
54:48days trying to argue this I mean I've
54:49never back talk back backtracked on that
54:51point I think anti-muslim hate calling
54:53somebody an anti-muslim bigot or you are
54:56anti-muslim is easy it's not a
54:58complicated phrase it says exactly what
55:01you mean if you say islamophobia it's
55:04confusing is me saying you know that a a
55:07justification used by these underage
55:09rape gangs is their view on the
55:11so-called Infidel is that islamophobic
55:13for me to say doesn't it's a very it's
55:16difficult to then be precise about what
55:18you're uh pointing to if you're using
55:20the foot phrase uh islamophobia and I've
55:22been saying this for a long time it
55:23really complicates the conversation um
55:26uh my challenge to these Muslim
55:27supremacists if you think about it our
55:30beloved Prophet Muhammad sallallahu
55:31alaihi wasallam uh if you're going to be
55:34literalist about it you're going to be
55:35literalist my challenge to them is
55:37specifically literally find me the
55:40specific and literal prohibition of
55:43depicting even nicely as the Persians
55:45used to right which is why the Shia used
55:47to do it where is the specific literal
55:50probation of depicting the prophet
55:51Muhammad there is a Prohibition of
55:53worshiping the graveen image that's
55:54different because what about if you're
55:57depicting it not to worship it as the
55:59Persian Shia and some sufis used to do
56:01we've got all those I mean come on it's
56:03all there as a matter of historic record
56:05they are unable to what they'll do is
56:07they'll give you General verses like oh
56:08those who declare war against Allah and
56:10the messenger yeah if you're literally
56:11burning a copy of the Quran and
56:13depicting the prophet Muhammad
56:14sallallahu alaihi wasallam as some form
56:15of you know unkind depiction it could be
56:19argued that you're declaring war against
56:21Islam what if you're what the Persians
56:23used to do and what the Sufi used to do
56:25what if you're literally just dra a nice
56:26image right there is no specific I'll
56:31guarantee you this right there is no
56:32specific prohibition on depicting the
56:35Prophet Muhammad in a nice kind way I
56:37don't do it why because I'm not Persian
56:39I don't come from that tradition I'm a
56:41Pakistani Sunni Muslim that's not my
56:43tradition I don't do it what I'm
56:44challenging them on isn't to say it's
56:46Halal in case they want to misconstrue
56:48what I'm saying right now that they like
56:49to do I'm saying your desire to
56:52literally burn a country over this is
56:55founded on what
56:56you know I can say I don't do it and I
56:58don't agree with doing it and I've never
56:59done it the one thing I've said
57:02ISB which I posted online Allah is
57:04greater than this depiction of this
57:05image that somebody was wearing on a
57:06t-shirt my point is that your desire to
57:10burn the country over these sorts of
57:13issues are founded on what other than
57:15your ego and other than your uh uh your
57:18your asab which is a term in Islam which
57:21means your tribalism yeah but tribalism
57:23from an anger perspective from a uh from
57:26a brutal kind of aggressive
57:28aggressiveness you know that's where it
57:30comes from so whether it's and that's
57:32the problem with the phrase islamophobia
57:33by the way because what it does is it
57:35captures legitimate critique legitimate
57:37conversation and it also captures praise
57:40such as what the sufis and the Persians
57:41of old used to do they used to depict
57:43the Prophet Muhammad in their poetry and
57:44stuff as as praise right the images with
57:47their poetry I mean like in the whole
57:48artistic sense right um and the Shia
57:50till today have images by the way till
57:52today right and the sunnis don't really
57:54like to draw the face from General
57:56reasons and that General reason relates
57:58to worshiping the Graven image that's
58:00all fine Christianity has that Heritage
58:02too but the Persian the Shia till today
58:04do this anyway they've got images of the
58:06prophet's son-in-law IM Ali they still
58:08have that today right so islamophobia is
58:12not a helpful term for that reason
58:13because it captures all of this
58:14anti-muslim is very specific it's real I
58:17was uh at the Forefront of the voices
58:19opposing IL musk's endorsement of Tommy
58:21Robinson for a reason right uh stage
58:24name Tommy Robinson real name Stephen YX
58:26lenon whether it's that or during the
58:28the riots we just had where mosque was
58:30attacked again at the Forefront of
58:32speaking out against all of that right
58:34so let's be very specific yes there's a
58:36there is a anti-muslim rise of hate in
58:39there is a rise of anti-muslim hate in
58:41Britain that that is true right and it
58:43needs to be challenged and frankly Nigel
58:45farage did a good thing when he said to
58:47musk sorry I'm not for sale I'm not
58:49going to take your 400 million I'm not
58:51going to allow Tommy stage named Tommy
58:52Robinson into the Reform Party right he
58:55listens that's a good thing because that
58:57will tank any chances reform has of
59:01becoming government and and forage
59:03become PM it completely tank it that is
59:05that is and so it's it's right to take a
59:07clear line on against anti-muslim hate
59:10everything else you mentioned there
59:12these are all problems um and they all
59:14problems that originate in a doctrine
59:17that the Blair years adopted of
59:19multiculturalism yeah we were living
59:21together apart we were growing together
59:23as communities apart
59:26in our each in our own silos and our
59:28bubbles not really interacting with each
59:29other I often say when addressing this
59:31topic of multiculturalism that
59:32Georgetown Professor fatal in America uh
59:36wrote a paper called omnicuris and it's
59:38a far I think for the current context
59:40we're in it's a far better approach what
59:42is omnic culturalism omnic culturalism
59:44says let's celebrate what we have in
59:45common not how we're different whereas
59:48multiculturalism was celebrating how
59:50we're different now yes I understand I
59:52look I did a postgrad in political
59:53Theory there are schools of thought in
59:54multiculturalism it's Kim and there's
59:56all these other theorists let's talk
59:58about what was applied in Britain
59:59instead of getting carried away with the
1:00:00Canadian models right yeah so what would
1:00:01be practical ways in our country now
1:00:04that we have the State of Affairs the
1:00:08the I would say the hard right are
1:00:09talking about remigration now I'm
1:00:11perfectly okay with these perpetrators
1:00:14of these rape gangs to be uh expelled
1:00:17from this country as I I have no problem
1:00:19saying that but innocent British
1:00:21naturalized citizens people who have
1:00:23been here for Generations being forced
1:00:25to leave for me is it's too far it seems
1:00:28to me that Law and Order is not not
1:00:30actually been tried yeah but when it
1:00:32comes to and so that' be one thing to
1:00:34try on a practical level but when it
1:00:35comes to these um different as you
1:00:39describe communities very much living
1:00:42out away from each other maybe not
1:00:44really in much communication with each
1:00:46other H how how can we fix that so to
1:00:48speak what's what's the solution to that
1:00:50let me start by saying this whole idea
1:00:51of deporting everyone other than a white
1:00:53n native Brit is not going to happen
1:00:56right so yeah there are people calling
1:00:57for it remig maybe it's an online right
1:00:59thing it is it is it's not going to
1:01:01happen but the there will be some
1:01:02deportations right uh and and that's for
1:01:05example like sex offenders or repeated
1:01:06offenders or whatever they will be we're
1:01:07going to end up seeing some I think
1:01:09that's going to I'm telling you I think
1:01:10that's going to happen right by the way
1:01:12the passage in the Quran uh that is
1:01:14correctly applied to these forms of
1:01:16underage rape gangs is known as the
1:01:18verse OFA means those who declare war
1:01:21against their own country yeah in that
1:01:23passage the punishment stipulated for
1:01:25those who are engaged Ina which is a
1:01:28specific Islamic Juris jurisprudential
1:01:30term right as well as all form of manner
1:01:33of like violent punishment which you
1:01:35know it goes through a list of things
1:01:36that you can choose to do one of them is
1:01:40expulsion right deportation yeah
1:01:43literally one of them is deportation
1:01:44right so I'm you know I asked Muhammad
1:01:46hijab could this be considereda before
1:01:48he blocked me he's blocked me now right
1:01:50I asked him three questions uh he only
1:01:53answered one of them and to be fair to
1:01:54him it was this one I said in your view
1:01:56could this be considered haraba or
1:01:58declaring war against your own country
1:01:59he said actually it could be considered
1:02:01haraba he he he before he block me he
1:02:03posted that response publicly yeah and
1:02:06my point to all of them is if you're
1:02:07going to say if this is haraba then
1:02:09expulsion from the land deportation is
1:02:12one of the Islamic sanctioned in fact
1:02:14ordained punishments for these people
1:02:17that engage in looting raping pillaging
1:02:20uh uh uh banditry is basically the it's
1:02:23banditry this all comes under banditry
1:02:25in Islamic jur Juris prudence and that's
1:02:27one of the punishments expel them from
1:02:29the land now moving
1:02:30to what we your your question yeah the
1:02:33question about different aspects of
1:02:35British Society not mixing together or
1:02:38just mainly British Muslims and
1:02:39non-muslims yeah well look we we've got
1:02:41a we we're at a a moment I'm quite
1:02:43optimistic despite all the Doom and
1:02:45Gloom we've just been discussing over
1:02:46the course of this hour I'm quite
1:02:48optimistic as I said to you once before
1:02:50uh wi that that I think we're about
1:02:54turning a corner now that may sound a
1:02:56bit strange considering I'm probably
1:02:58still more cancelled than I've ever been
1:03:00in my life at the moment um but but I
1:03:02think we're turning a corner dark as
1:03:04before the dawn yeah and I think I think
1:03:05that um we are 2025 is going to be an
1:03:08interesting year but I think we're
1:03:10turning a corner when it comes to this
1:03:11entire debate around M you know the
1:03:14failure of multiculturalism integration
1:03:17citizenship Muslim belonging in Europe
1:03:20it's got to a point now where we can't
1:03:23escape this question is there going to
1:03:24be a civil war mlims versus non-muslims
1:03:26we just had these National riots over
1:03:28that question of course Europe isn't any
1:03:30better yeah we're literally at that
1:03:32decision point is there going to be a
1:03:33Civil War and do we all kill each other
1:03:35or do we figure out a solution I think
1:03:37it's highly likely we're going to figure
1:03:38out a solution and the solution begins
1:03:42with this point there's no point like
1:03:44because the ethn versus civnat debate
1:03:47that you've referenced earlier the ethn
1:03:48nationalists want remigration the Civic
1:03:50nationalists want to talk about values
1:03:52that bind us yeah and the and those
1:03:54aren't the only two options exactly that
1:03:56was going to be my point right that
1:03:58let's be let's let's ignore all of that
1:04:00let's begin with this that being British
1:04:04or being in the context of Continental
1:04:06Europe being European French German
1:04:07whatever it is has to begin with a
1:04:10feeling it has to start there yeah
1:04:12because home is a
1:04:14feeling and what you where you feel at
1:04:17home is going to be your home right now
1:04:19I was born and raised here in Essex
1:04:22and love Essex I got I left home at 16
1:04:25but all schoolmate still in touch with
1:04:26all of
1:04:28them and it's easy for me uh to feel at
1:04:33home in Britain it's easy I was born and
1:04:36raised here right but I wasn't born and
1:04:39raised in one of these insula
1:04:40communities especially in those days I
1:04:42had the opposite problem I was facing
1:04:43neonazis skads I was because in those
1:04:45days in south end on C in Essex um you
1:04:50could count the number of people that
1:04:51look like me on one hand right maybe
1:04:53this places me in a very interesting and
1:04:54unique position to address this question
1:04:57but those that were born in say the
1:04:58insul communities of say in in Bradford
1:05:00or certain towns and cities across the
1:05:01country whe whatever rdale uh
1:05:04rotheram there is a challenge do they
1:05:07really really feel at home in this
1:05:10country now this is a two-way street but
1:05:12it has to begin with that that feeling
1:05:14right and that
1:05:17feeling we can help it emerge through
1:05:20conversation and debate like this right
1:05:22to the contrary of what they fear they
1:05:24meaning those that are want to shut this
1:05:26conversation down across the political
1:05:28Spectrum not just Muslims labor others
1:05:30as well some kind of Tories in name only
1:05:33whatever um those who want to shut this
1:05:35conversation down contrary to what they
1:05:36fear the conversation and the debate
1:05:39helps build that feeling of home because
1:05:42afterwards even if you even if you had
1:05:44somebody you vly disagreed with over the
1:05:46course of this conversation across the
1:05:48table and they left and you gave them a
1:05:50fair hearing and a Civic disagreement
1:05:52they'd leave thinking that's interesting
1:05:53you know we actually he let me speak
1:05:56even if he disagreed with me and then he
1:05:57challenged me but politely yeah and that
1:06:00all part of that it helps build the
1:06:02feeling that this like for example the
1:06:04debate culture we have in this country
1:06:05Oxford debates or whatever I know you
1:06:07particip participated in those debates
1:06:09you did recently as well mine yeah mine
1:06:10was Islam I opposed the motion that
1:06:13Islam is incompatible with democracy for
1:06:16these very points we're discussing here
1:06:18today if we can if we can somehow
1:06:21address the feeling question everything
1:06:22else builds from there then what do we
1:06:23need to do right beyond that of course
1:06:26there are a whole uh host
1:06:29of um parameters that that will have
1:06:33certain red lines uh as to what it means
1:06:35to be part and parcel of Britain the red
1:06:38lines of course will involve you can't
1:06:40feel like you belong to this country if
1:06:42you're running around parasiting on its
1:06:44underage children right and the rest of
1:06:47the
1:06:48community Muslim British Pakistani
1:06:50Muslim Community Feels by the way the
1:06:53same about this in private they do not
1:06:55endorse the majority do not endorse this
1:06:58Behavior what you're witnessing is a
1:07:00defensiveness in public or asaba the
1:07:03phrase I eduse this this aggressive
1:07:04tribal defensiveness because they don't
1:07:07feel the same as the rest of the country
1:07:09they're worried the rest of the country
1:07:10is going to view them as different and
1:07:12it's creating this oppositional
1:07:14dialectic but in private the
1:07:16overwhelming majority not only reject
1:07:18these uh underage rape gangs but would
1:07:21endorse the application of the verse of
1:07:24Hera that we discussed earlier on to
1:07:25them a quick Interruption to your show
1:07:28if you would like exclusive content
1:07:29exclusive interviews and exclusive
1:07:31videos come over to the Winston Marshall
1:07:33substack it's at Winston marshall.co and
1:07:36there you can interact with me directly
1:07:40it's Winston marshall.co and you'll find
1:07:42links in the comments below but back to
1:07:47the interview so my concern with this
1:07:50idea that is is actually that they do
1:07:53and i' I I I do believe someone like hin
1:07:56believes that he is BR sorry he does
1:07:59have the feeling that this is his home
1:08:01yeah but what I've picked up by
1:08:03following him on Twitter is that his
1:08:05concept of what that is is different to
1:08:07ours so he very much would feel like
1:08:10this he's a he's British and and I've
1:08:12heard him say things like Britain is
1:08:13secular I don't think that's true
1:08:15Britain's a Christian country it's not
1:08:16secular and also I question the feeling
1:08:18I question it I know that I know the the
1:08:20former HT lot his with I question it
1:08:23right okay yeah so so um is okay well
1:08:27despite that is there can we talk
1:08:28conceptually about what it is to be uh
1:08:30British is it is it it can't be just to
1:08:33have a feeling that this this of land is
1:08:35is home there's got to be some you know
1:08:37for example someone who's been on the
1:08:38show is Katherine burbling she's got a
1:08:39brilliant I think it's majority Muslim
1:08:42actually but her school out in Wembley
1:08:44and she's United the best in the country
1:08:46she's United all these different
1:08:48communities through the flag will be it
1:08:51a Christian flag the Union flag it's
1:08:53three crosses on top of each other uh by
1:08:54singing the Anthem and I guess the
1:08:57monarchy and I go further in saying that
1:09:00it to be British is to be a
1:09:02participation in the heritage of Britain
1:09:04which I think is an open invitation if
1:09:06you come to this country I go further if
1:09:08you don't if you don't
1:09:10accept the traditions and culture of
1:09:12this country you're engag in subversion
1:09:15against this country right Britain is
1:09:17not a secular
1:09:18country
1:09:20and in a sense it shouldn't be either
1:09:23and what I mean by that is we have an
1:09:25established
1:09:26church and the Monarch is the head of
1:09:28the Church of England now everything's
1:09:30gone wrong with that everything as you
1:09:31know right everything that could
1:09:33possibly go wrong with that that's a
1:09:34whole other Scandal a whole other
1:09:35episode yeah now I'm not just talking
1:09:36about Justin WBY I'm also talking about
1:09:38King Charles relation with J Jimmy
1:09:39savell everything's gone wrong with it
1:09:41from the top down yeah but that doesn't
1:09:43mean that the institutions themselves
1:09:45shouldn't be there anymore that that's a
1:09:47leap and I think it's a leap too far
1:09:51because radical
1:09:52change and I've been a lifelong uh um uh
1:09:56small r republican by the way but I'm
1:09:58I'm pragmatic on I said it on LBC really
1:10:00yeah yeah but I'm I'm I'm no no I said
1:10:03it on obv I'm completely pragmatic on
1:10:04that I don't think it's a good idea to
1:10:06remove any of this right um what I mean
1:10:09is like in the context of America it
1:10:11might work I don't think it would work
1:10:13here in Britain I don't think it would
1:10:14work to remove all of this I think we've
1:10:15got to be very careful why am I saying
1:10:18that because what we've noticed is when
1:10:20you remove the moral compass of a Nation
1:10:23that's meant to be like the spiritual
1:10:25guidance of that
1:10:27Nation you end up with a you end up with
1:10:29a black hole a void and a yearning for
1:10:32spirituality which is filled by
1:10:34materialism and we've seen that with
1:10:35consumerist culture consumerism has
1:10:38overtaken spirituality for most people's
1:10:41preoccupation and that's a terrible
1:10:43indictment on a post-p spiritual
1:10:45society and people often say in our us
1:10:49uh podcast uh friends and and in that
1:10:51world people often say as you would have
1:10:53heard as well that uh uh uh culture is
1:10:56Downstream from politics right and what
1:10:57they mean by that is uh uh uh uh sorry
1:11:01politics is Downstream from culture
1:11:03right right yeah what they mean by that
1:11:04is that Pol you can't fix politics until
1:11:06you fix culture and I add often one
1:11:10extra layer to that and say well correct
1:11:12you can't fix politics until you fix
1:11:14culture but you can't fix culture until
1:11:16you fix spirituality because if you
1:11:19remove spirituality your culture ends up
1:11:21becoming this hollow consumerist empty
1:11:24black hole
1:11:26and so the rise of online sex culture
1:11:29pornography uh substance addiction um
1:11:33materialism shallow-minded short-termism
1:11:36all of this is a result of
1:11:38consumerism and it can only be fixed by
1:11:40spirituality and it's why uh for example
1:11:43I think it was was it uh who was it who
1:11:44said was it Freud who said even don't
1:11:47quote me on this but that even if the
1:11:49belief in God is wrong it's useful but
1:11:51actually I think Young it was young
1:11:52that's right but actually for me I
1:11:54believe right but that's another topic
1:11:56again not for the topic of this uh
1:11:58podcast but whether you believe or you
1:12:00don't believe to recognize it's useful
1:12:03is quite clear I think Tom Holland would
1:12:04agree with that right it's useful yeah
1:12:07and what we've done is we've tried to
1:12:09destroy the thing but the consequences
1:12:10of destroying it you can see in society
1:12:13and it's very very so when people like
1:12:16Dilly or others let's not just make it
1:12:18about him say this is a secular country
1:12:20what they're really trying to do is to
1:12:22say get your you know uh uh let's tear
1:12:26down the fabric of this Society this is
1:12:28a political struggle against the
1:12:30traditions and the culture of this
1:12:31country and I do not think that's
1:12:33helpful we need to be able to uplift the
1:12:36spiritual traditions of this Society not
1:12:38tear them down and that's why I think
1:12:44Katherine school's doing well and I'd
1:12:46say to fellow British Muslims that just
1:12:49as the official established religion in
1:12:50Pakistan is Islam and should remain
1:12:52Islam just as the official established
1:12:54religion in the new Syria will be Islam
1:12:57and should be Islam the official
1:13:00established religion in Britain is
1:13:01Christianity and there should be an
1:13:04official established religion in Britain
1:13:06and it's not going to be Islam and it's
1:13:07not going to be Judaism so leave the
1:13:08thing alone yeah there needs to be a
1:13:10religion here right because if you
1:13:11remove spirituality from the people
1:13:14you're going to see the kind of society
1:13:15that Prophet Muhammad came to correct
1:13:18there's a reason in the Quran it
1:13:21says for what crime was that baby girl k
1:13:25killed they used to bury their daughters
1:13:27alive in the sand right for what crime
1:13:30was she killed and today we've got these
1:13:32very very early abortions we've got
1:13:35medical experiments on children we've
1:13:36got forced vaccines the same thing
1:13:39coming back around again this worship of
1:13:42material progress at the expense of the
1:13:44human soul and Co was the casing point
1:13:47for that that's what happens if you
1:13:48remove spirituality from society yeah
1:13:51yeah or as NE said you know we've killed
1:13:53God and you never be able to clean up
1:13:54the the blood yeah um the this is quite
1:13:58comical so if I may some comedy well I I
1:14:01hope I think it's comical the the
1:14:02emiratis have just um banned eight
1:14:05entities in Britain and what's comical
1:14:07is the name of these entities maybe uh
1:14:10it's or or that the Emirates have
1:14:12decided to to do this they include
1:14:15Wembley tree limited wasla for all
1:14:18future graduates limited Yas for
1:14:20investment and real estate holdco
1:14:23there's eight of these entities all
1:14:24based in the United Kingdom and they've
1:14:26banned them because of their links to
1:14:29the Muslim Brotherhood now this is where
1:14:30my white pill comes I look at the
1:14:32emirati I look at the Saudis the not
1:14:35only the Abraham Accords the way they're
1:14:36dealing with islamism we we've got a a
1:14:40problem with that in this country but
1:14:41we're too scared hopefully this
1:14:43conversation is helped to push things
1:14:45along they have no problem calling out
1:14:47when there's is they don't and and um
1:14:51but I'm worried at the British powers
1:14:53that be do yeah and um you know even
1:14:56that this APG definition of islamophobia
1:14:58is even that's that's where our
1:14:59discourse is the the Muslim majority
1:15:01countries that want peace with Israel
1:15:03that want trade with the West we want
1:15:05peace with the West they have no problem
1:15:07calling it what it is and dealing with
1:15:09it what what's going on there I know
1:15:11that Quil I mean maybe this is too big a
1:15:13question for right now but quilan would
1:15:14obviously working on deradicalization
1:15:16that was part of your um that was
1:15:19probably the was that not the main sort
1:15:21of objective with Kum what's where are
1:15:24we at with rad
1:15:27I had a I had a a dinner conversation um
1:15:29a few nights ago with a who shall
1:15:32remained uh remain an unnamed uh CNN
1:15:37broadcaster and uh we spoke about this
1:15:39because I I think more relevant than the
1:15:42Emir emiratis and the Saudis and what
1:15:44MBs is doing with the opening of Saudi
1:15:46Society more relevant than all of that
1:15:48is what's happening in Syria because
1:15:50Ahmed Shar or Alani the new leader of
1:15:53Syria who overthrew us
1:15:55has managed to achieve something that
1:15:57hasn't yet been seen in our modern
1:15:59history and that is that he's LED an
1:16:02openly Sunni Muslim
1:16:06Battalion to take over a government
1:16:08while fending off uh Isis
1:16:13Al-Qaeda hisb who by the way were
1:16:16operative operating in Syria for many
1:16:18years because they felt were founded
1:16:19literally next door in Jerusalem in
1:16:211953 really yeah huh he's managed to
1:16:25he's managed to fend off all of these
1:16:27groups let's call them islamist
1:16:30organizations as opposed to Islamic and
1:16:32what I mean by islamist again Mr dwar
1:16:35sayin listen very carefully right I mean
1:16:38and Mr Muhammad hijab when I say
1:16:40islamist I mean the desire to impose one
1:16:45or any given interpretation of Islam
1:16:48over
1:16:49Society uh in Islamic terms the desire
1:16:52to impose any maab any one maab or
1:16:55maslac over society which was never done
1:16:58in the history of Islam except twice and
1:17:01both of those times happened in Europe
1:17:03one in andalia to fend off the Frankish
1:17:05invasions and the second was in ottoman
1:17:07turkey when they tried to in andalia or
1:17:09Spain it was the Maliki School of Juris
1:17:11Prudence that they tried to synchronize
1:17:12with law and in ottoman turkey it was
1:17:14the hanfi school of Juris Prudence that
1:17:16they tried to synchronize with law that
1:17:17was called the tanzimat reforms in both
1:17:19cases they tried to do it because they
1:17:21were in severe Decline and they were
1:17:23trying to desperately hold the society
1:17:24together and in both cases it failed in
1:17:27Spain's case they got conquered and in
1:17:28ottoman turkey's case they were
1:17:30collapsed on their heads and the uh
1:17:32secularist Kamal came after them in 1924
1:17:36to found the modern day Turkish
1:17:38Republic the desire to impose anyone
1:17:41given view of Islam with state law in
1:17:45other words synchronizing Sharia with
1:17:46law is a modernist project it is born of
1:17:51European interwar fascism it was
1:17:54influenc inuenced by European interwar
1:17:56fascism and they realize the fascists
1:17:59that you can't just bring musolini style
1:18:01or Hitler style fascism to the Middle
1:18:03East it doesn't marry with the culture
1:18:05of the people so they merged it with
1:18:07traditional Islam to to create islamism
1:18:09literally create islamism islamism or
1:18:12this phenomenon to synchronize law with
1:18:15Islamic jurist Prudence was unheard of
1:18:18outside of those two examples I
1:18:19mentioned which ended in defeat it was
1:18:21unheard of throughout the history of
1:18:22Islam in fact Imam Malik one of the
1:18:25famous founders of the four schools of
1:18:26Islamic jewi experience would would
1:18:28openly caution caution his people keep
1:18:30away from the gates of the ruler Don't
1:18:33Go Near rulers this is well known all of
1:18:35the Islamic jurists wouldn't even want
1:18:37to speak to rulers if a ruler would ask
1:18:39to come and see them they say you come
1:18:40to me I'm not going to you they would
1:18:42keep well away from them
1:18:44right but islamism came about founding
1:18:46of the Muslim Brotherhood first jamaat
1:18:48islami in Pakistan and South Asia after
1:18:51them with Mali who founded that in 1953
1:18:54founded by anani in
1:18:57Jerusalem and then of course Al-Qaeda
1:18:59with B bin ladin was an offshoot of the
1:19:02combination of all of these uh the Nexus
1:19:04being Egypt Al-Qaeda being founded in
1:19:06Pasha um because of the Afghan Jihad and
1:19:10then Al-Qaeda splitting into Isis after
1:19:12the Iraq War what joani or Ahmed Shar
1:19:15the new leader of Syria has successfully
1:19:17managed to do is bypass all of that from
1:19:21the Brotherhood onwards in forming this
1:19:22government he's not Brotherhood he's not
1:19:24hisb he's not Al-Qaeda he's not Isis uh
1:19:28he's not jamaat islami he's bypassed all
1:19:30of it while maintaining a credibility on
1:19:32the ground for being a religious Muslim
1:19:35now the noises he there obviously we've
1:19:37got to be very careful here we don't
1:19:38know how it's going to go but he had a
1:19:39Jihadi background yeah he did just like
1:19:41me islamist background right but the
1:19:44noises he's making if you look at the
1:19:46this is the conversation I had with the
1:19:47CNN broadcaster the other day if you
1:19:48look at the statements that have come
1:19:50out of Syria after the overthrow of
1:19:52Assad they look like quillian press
1:19:54releases
1:19:56Ahmed sh talking about diversity
1:19:57respecting minorities talking about no
1:19:59war with Israel talking about uh not
1:20:02imposing things on people right they all
1:20:05look like quilliam press releases and if
1:20:07you look back to the statements now with
1:20:09that I've said it you're going to start
1:20:10seeing Oh that's
1:20:11interesting so what quillian proved is
1:20:14that you can be post islamist and post
1:20:16jihadist of course uh our former you
1:20:19you've met him our former colleague and
1:20:21president qu n bman um British Libyan
1:20:24for in Afghanistan right what qu yeah
1:20:27yeah right what what qu great guy yeah
1:20:30yeah uh what quilliam demonstrates good
1:20:32friend of mine right what quum
1:20:33demonstrates is you can be post jihadist
1:20:36or post islamist still be Muslim still
1:20:39care a lot for your uh Faith still
1:20:41practice it yeah over Court covid
1:20:44another thing I did is I made a public
1:20:45dolber or repentance and returned to
1:20:48being uh uh quote unquote practicing
1:20:50because the phrase itself isn't doesn't
1:20:52what does it mean but as in I pray five
1:20:54times a day I fast in Ramadan I Tred to
1:20:56adhere to I you know to my scriptures
1:20:58right quum demonstrated you can be that
1:21:01and not be an islamist and Ahmed Shar is
1:21:04the first time you've got people from
1:21:06that background who've now come to power
1:21:09and are testing that concept as I said
1:21:11we got to be very careful uh because
1:21:13it's early days yet I'm optimistic that
1:21:16Syria will be the Practical
1:21:19implementation of what we were proposing
1:21:21as Quil interesting yeah I'm optimistic
1:21:23CU they're islamist I'm I'm I'm deciding
1:21:26from my analytical framework obviously
1:21:28he can be whatever he wants to be it's
1:21:29up to him but my view of Ahmed Shar is
1:21:32he's a post islamist he's a traditionist
1:21:35Muslim he's not going to be non-d devout
1:21:37he's going to pray he's got his beard
1:21:38he's going to he's going to take Islam
1:21:39seriously as he should by the way
1:21:41because he's not going to be a Christian
1:21:42is he if we're saying spirituality is
1:21:44important we hope he becomes uh remains
1:21:46a Muslim just like I hope Britain and
1:21:48the Church fixes itself as well right um
1:21:52we need that so you're going to a post
1:21:55islamist government in Syria which I
1:21:56think will begin to
1:21:59demonstrate that these things Islam
1:22:01governance the Middle East that they can
1:22:04be
1:22:05reconciled and the because the emiratis
1:22:07and the and the Saudis are different for
1:22:09a reason as well because they're
1:22:10monarchies right whereas this isn't so
1:22:12it's it's it's it's even more
1:22:14interesting than than the monarchies
1:22:15because the monarchy all you need really
1:22:16he like MBS a young king comes along
1:22:18wants a bit of a party and he changes
1:22:20the country because he wants the party
1:22:21which fine but what we really needed
1:22:24were people that took this ideological
1:22:27background seriously as Ahmed Shar
1:22:29clearly does because he's from that
1:22:30background as we did because we were
1:22:31from that background and grappled with
1:22:33it and tried to reconcile all these
1:22:35ideas right reconcile say's theory of
1:22:38alakim or sovereignty with modern day
1:22:41governance which I know we did at
1:22:43quillian but I know I can see from Ahmed
1:22:44shar's statements that he's doing so as
1:22:47I said early days this is not a this is
1:22:49an endorsement with caveats but I'm
1:22:50highly optimistic that this is going to
1:22:52fix a lot of the is islamist question in
1:22:54the Middle East well you're brave to
1:22:55make such a prediction I think because
1:22:56it could go we'll see we'll see um let's
1:22:59discuss that another time I know your
1:23:01time is precious and you got to shoot
1:23:03off to do your show my last question
1:23:07then would be on the question back to
1:23:08Britain yeah and you believe that Nigel
1:23:11farage is the vessel the political
1:23:14vessel to unite Britain Muslim and
1:23:18normalis that's something that you and I
1:23:20have discussed but can you make that
1:23:21case for listeners yeah I'm happy to uh
1:23:24look I made the case for Trump in 2020
1:23:26when I said earlier in this interview
1:23:28that we I called Trump what I meant is
1:23:30uh this is Trump's third term he won
1:23:312020 it was interfered with illegally
1:23:33the hunter Biden laptop story was
1:23:35suppressed n people that should have
1:23:36known better that came from my
1:23:38background the national security
1:23:39background interfered and said that was
1:23:41Russian disinformation it wasn't and
1:23:44that's a whole other I mean I I although
1:23:46I do think that that was
1:23:47interference the evidence that it would
1:23:49definitely it might have changed the
1:23:51election result we don't know but I
1:23:52definitely agree it was interference I
1:23:54think would have but that that's not the
1:23:55point I was the point I was going to
1:23:56make is he won because he managed to get
1:24:00certain marginal votes in the key swing
1:24:02States now there's a reason Trump
1:24:04thanked the Muslim vote after he won
1:24:06because in Michigan it was the Muslim
1:24:08vote that swung it in his favor Michigan
1:24:10was one of the key five swing states
1:24:11that he needed to win if you look at the
1:24:13ethnic minority vote African-Americans
1:24:16Latinos and Muslim Americans they
1:24:19surprised Everybody by backing Trump
1:24:21over Kam Harris in large large numbers
1:24:23large enough that he spefic specifically
1:24:24individually thanked each of these
1:24:26communities in post Victory speeches
1:24:28right now I'm saying I'm arguing that
1:24:32that's what Nigel farage is going to do
1:24:33in Britain he's going to secure uh a
1:24:38surprising number of ethnic minority and
1:24:40British Muslim votes people are going to
1:24:42be surprised by it just as they were
1:24:44surprised by Trump and I was saying it
1:24:46for a long time Trump's going to win not
1:24:47only is he going to win he's going to
1:24:48get Muslim voters well the majority of
1:24:50American Muslims voted for yeah Trump
1:24:53right so for is going to get that
1:24:54phenomenon here let's start with this
1:24:56the so-called labor Landslide under Kama
1:24:59is not a landslide if you truly
1:25:01understand the first pass the post
1:25:02system that we're living under yes he's
1:25:04got a huge majority of seats in
1:25:06Parliament but you win those seats by
1:25:08winning elections in each constituency
1:25:11across the country by how much did he
1:25:13win those elections in each constituency
1:25:16across the country well people will be
1:25:18surprised to know that was the narrowest
1:25:21marginal victory since
1:25:221945 h
1:25:25starmer's victory was so marginal that
1:25:27the current Secretary of State for
1:25:29health we
1:25:30streeting one by only 500 votes in other
1:25:35words the man running our health system
1:25:36is propped up by a difference of high
1:25:39500 votes in party political terms that
1:25:41isn't marginal that is a nightmare that
1:25:44is a nightmare right 500 votes is
1:25:47nothing politically nothing and the
1:25:49person that came within 500 votes to him
1:25:51lean Muhammad wasn't even party
1:25:53Affiliated she was independent that's
1:25:55how bad it is for labor out there they
1:25:57only won 20% of the electorate yeah now
1:26:00today in the Press is news that reform
1:26:04is on par with labor in opinion polls
1:26:08right and Tes are way uh into third
1:26:11place now the reason farage would get
1:26:14let's call it white van man and brexit
1:26:16voter that's I think that's a point that
1:26:18we would be laboring if we went into
1:26:19that it's well known why he appeals to
1:26:21those voters why am I saying does he
1:26:23appeal now
1:26:24to ethnic minority and British Muslim
1:26:26voters in particular because like Trump
1:26:28farage has listened and made the effort
1:26:30to make to say certain things that have
1:26:33resonated in those communities in a way
1:26:36that unless you're in those communities
1:26:38you wouldn't know through the WhatsApp
1:26:40groups through the um you know family
1:26:42gatherings one of them that resonated in
1:26:45a way that people are underestimating is
1:26:47what he said right here with you on your
1:26:49very shot and that was when you asked
1:26:51him about the place of Muslims in
1:26:53Britain and the place of Muslims and
1:26:54Islam uh in our future as a shared uh
1:26:58identity and he said if you go to war
1:27:00with all of Islam you're going to lose
1:27:01forage is turning down Elon musk's 400
1:27:05million and saying I'm not for sale and
1:27:07I'm not going to let stage name Robinson
1:27:09into the Reform Party comes after
1:27:11British Muslims already observed that
1:27:13farage left ukip his own party for the
1:27:17very same reason citing Tommy Robinson
1:27:19that's in the guardian everybody can go
1:27:21the reason Nigel farage left his own
1:27:24party ukip that he was leader of was
1:27:26over this stage named Tommy Robinson
1:27:28debate he's done the same now again with
1:27:31reform he's turned 400 million down with
1:27:33uh coming from Elon Musk to allow stage
1:27:35name Robinson back in or or into reform
1:27:38these sorts of gestures they are
1:27:40meaningful and they resonate among
1:27:43British Muslims in ways that are yet
1:27:44being underestimated what he said on
1:27:46your show about do not alienate all of
1:27:49Islam do not go to war with all of Islam
1:27:51it's a losing bet that resonated with
1:27:53British Muslims ways that are yet being
1:27:55underestimated so um I guess what we've
1:27:58seen at the moment is that we saw it the
1:28:00July 2024 general election is the rise
1:28:03of the sectarian the independent uh some
1:28:06people call it the pro Gaza ticket MPS I
1:28:08think there's four plus Jeremy Corbin in
1:28:12the parliament at the moment sitting in
1:28:13Parliament and you mentioned West
1:28:16streeting constituency that it seems
1:28:19that the British Muslims are voting for
1:28:22Independence to represent them
1:28:24suggesting is that they will eventually
1:28:27turn to reform no no I'm saying they
1:28:29will split the labor vote and they will
1:28:31take the labor vote which will allow in
1:28:33those marginal seats that are marginal
1:28:35in the sense of going uh left or right
1:28:39that will allow the balance to tip in
1:28:41the favor of Reform where it's marginal
1:28:44because labor will Hemorrhage votes
1:28:45because nobody in the Muslim Community
1:28:48trusts K the the ma tulip sadik right
1:28:52who who's that uh the the
1:28:54anti-corruption minister in the labor
1:28:55government MP tulip sque who beat me in
1:28:57hamon and Kilburn when I stood as Li d
1:28:58right she she's a labor MP for hamon and
1:29:01Kilburn julip s is K's current K's
1:29:05current anti-corruption Minister that's
1:29:07not the interesting part the interesting
1:29:09part is who our Auntie was chulip sik's
1:29:12Aunt is Sheik hassina Sheik hassina was
1:29:15the Prime Minister of Bangladesh what's
1:29:18just happened in Bangladesh the country
1:29:21has
1:29:21overthrown a despised
1:29:24corrupt oligarchy led by T Li sadik's a
1:29:28she Bangladesh has literally just had
1:29:30its Bangladesh spring which wasn't in
1:29:32our press but take it from me they have
1:29:34as a nation they gathered they they they
1:29:37demonstrated students everyone it was a
1:29:40huge thing it was a little bit in our
1:29:41press a little tiny bit but it's
1:29:43historic because it's also realigned
1:29:46geopolitically in the area Bangladesh uh
1:29:48after the the war against Pakistan for
1:29:51Independence was very closely Allied to
1:29:53IND India uh because of the regime that
1:29:56was there this Uprising has reigned
1:29:59Bangladesh closer to Pakistan and they
1:30:02kicked out tulip sadik's Aunt Sheikh H
1:30:06uh overwhelmingly Muslims around the
1:30:08world supported that Bangladesh spring
1:30:10against tulip sadik's Aunt what gets
1:30:12interesting is tulip sadik is now
1:30:14currently being investigated because she
1:30:17lived in some houses provided to her by
1:30:20her now deposed and corrupt auntie in
1:30:23Britain she in other words is accused of
1:30:26having benefited from that corruption
1:30:29British bangladeshis are all very very
1:30:31aware of this and they all know that
1:30:33she's a close Confidant of K she's one
1:30:36of his she's his corruption Minister
1:30:38Accused by British Bangladesh is of
1:30:41corruption so that's an example just
1:30:43give you an example British Muslims
1:30:45generally not just bangladeshis don't
1:30:46trust K Over Gaza but Bangladesh you
1:30:49don't trust him over tulip C and many
1:30:50other things including Gaza you've got a
1:30:52you've got an entire
1:30:54you've got an entire discourse building
1:30:57up that labor under new labor is very
1:31:00very bad for Muslims so sorry uh what
1:31:03forgive me I'm being slow on this but
1:31:04the seems like a bit of a contradiction
1:31:07unless I've misunderstood which is that
1:31:09it's not actually that British Muslims
1:31:11will vote for reform and support reform
1:31:14but rather which which is what I had
1:31:16understood earlier which but it's rather
1:31:18they're going to split the labor vote
1:31:20and so actually it reform isn't a vessel
1:31:22for British Muslims no no no it's both
1:31:24so those that were leftwing and would
1:31:26have voted labor anyway are not going to
1:31:28vote labor those that would have
1:31:30traditionally voted Tori and lots of
1:31:31Muslims do traditionally vote Tori as
1:31:32well will not vote Tori they'll vote
1:31:35reform okay those who are floating
1:31:36voters Nigel farage has captured their
1:31:39attention because of things like what he
1:31:41said on your
1:31:43podcast so and a lot of Muslim voters
1:31:46are floating voters and he'll attract
1:31:48them too what I'm suggesting is that
1:31:51labor will underperform because they
1:31:53Hemorrhage the Muslim vote and Nigel
1:31:55farage will overperform because he will
1:31:58attract the Muslim vote from the
1:31:59floating voters while also securing the
1:32:02Muslims that would have voted Tori I see
1:32:04I see um well magin we've covered a huge
1:32:08amount in this conversation he will also
1:32:10be prime minister of this country sooner
1:32:11than people
1:32:12think sooner than 2029 I won't put a
1:32:16date on it but Nigel farage will be
1:32:17prime minister of this country sooner
1:32:18than people think there you go magin Noz
1:32:22thank you so much uh it's great we've
1:32:24finally been able to do this and I'm
1:32:26very glad that we were able to have a
1:32:28constructive conversation about social
1:32:30cohesion in our country I know you're a
1:32:32proud Patriot and um this was I've
1:32:35learned so much in this and I'm sure the
1:32:36audience would have loved it where can
1:32:38people find you what I mean we've
1:32:40already talked about your upcoming Show
1:32:41cancelled yeah that's very exciting uh
1:32:45we haven't filmed it yet right so we
1:32:46don't know about for the moment thank
1:32:48you for asking people go to Radical
1:32:49Media which is Magid nos. substack
1:32:54is all centralized on my substack for
1:32:55the moment fantastic and uh you're on
1:32:58all the normal social media and uh we'll
1:33:02keep an eye out for your show canceled
1:33:04but magin noaz thank you so much you're
1:33:06a total star and it was a pleasure thank
1:33:09you thank you for watching the win
1:33:11Marshal show that was Magid noaz if you
1:33:13want to support this show all you have
1:33:14to do is press subscribe 45% of regular
1:33:17views of this show a not subscriber and
1:33:18we're nearly at 300,000 with your help
1:33:21we can have more phenomenal guests
1:33:22exploring the issues you want to hear
1:33:23about the mainstream media won't touch
1:33:25but until next time be well

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