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The truth about ADHD TikTok (and why it's going viral) | Top Comment Podcast — Transcript

by BBC News · 3,651 words · 570 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Matt, I've had several messages from
0:01people getting in touch about how lots
0:03of content relating to ADHD or um other
0:08neurodivergent conditions have been
0:10popping up on their social media feed.
0:12So much so that they kind of feel like,
0:13"Oh, wait a sec. Like, am I experiencing
0:16this? Have I got ADHD? Have I got
0:18autism?" Lots of kind of pseudo
0:20psychology. I think that's the issue,
0:22the kind of pseudo bit.
0:23>> Exactly. And and it's it's really
0:25interesting to try and parse this out
0:27from the genuine rise in ADHD diagnoses
0:31um versus, you know, how much of this is
0:34just people who think they might have
0:35ADHD because they've seen something on
0:36social media. The NHS modern data shows
0:38that the number of um people waiting for
0:40an ADHD assessment rose from 21,000
0:44in April 2019 to around 270,000
0:48by December 2025. So, it's a huge rise.
0:51>> And that's kind of the reason we're
0:52talking about it because there is a lot
0:54of content about this, and it can be
0:55quite tricky actually to figure out like
0:57what's true and helpful and what's
0:59misleading.
1:00>> Here's how to tell if a girl has ADHD in
1:02under 1 minute. These signs are going to
1:04be weirdly specific and probably creep
1:07you out a little bit.
1:08>> it's like inside the mind of someone
1:10with inattentive ADHD like me.
1:25>> In 2017, I just got prescribed ADHD
1:27medication, so I wanted to talk about
1:28some of the symptoms that made me
1:29realize I need to see a psychiatrist.
1:31>> There's been a fair bit of research done
1:33done into this in recent months and
1:35years. There was this study that came
1:36out last year about how there are 28
1:39billion views on the hashtag ADHD. So,
1:41we're talking about like a
1:43a a huge section of content, and you can
1:45see how easily misinformation and
1:47inaccuracies can be baked into that,
1:49which is something that quite a few
1:51experts, clinicians have have warned
1:53about. I'm sure there are people booking
1:55in for ADHD assessments who very much
1:58have it, there also could be a lot of
2:00people who don't have it but have
2:01convinced themselves they have.
2:02>> Yeah, I mean that it's such an
2:04interesting topic because
2:07on the whole, increased awareness around
2:10mental health issues is a good thing. Um
2:12you know, for example, the the the rise
2:15is in ADHD diagnoses
2:18and people seeking a diagnosis, but the
2:20population prevalence of ADHD has been
2:22constant. So, there's always been around
2:255% of children, 3 or 4% of of young
2:27people and adults in this country have
2:29had ADHD. But uh the number of people
2:32who are actually getting diagnosed with
2:33it has increased. So, the administrative
2:34awareness, people who are actually
2:36getting the the the help and the
2:37>> Who is actually questioning whether they
2:39>> Yeah, it has has increased. But
2:40obviously, that jump from 21,000 to
2:42270,000 is huge. So, clearly, you know,
2:46a lot of social media self-diagnosis is
2:48going on. And that comes because it
2:50comes from a lot of these uh creators
2:52are basically saying things like, "If
2:53you don't clean your room and like if
2:55you do your homework late, then like you
2:57have ADHD."
2:58>> [clears throat]
2:58>> And you actually do have ADHD, don't
2:59you?
3:00>> I yeah, I so I do have ADHD. I got an
3:02official diagnosis of ADHD.
3:06Um
3:06and to be fair, I I do think that like
3:09social media played a role in that
3:10actually because it happened when I was
3:12writing my last book. Um and it was just
3:14so difficult. Like I've always had
3:16things, right? Like I wrote my
3:18dissertation
3:19in
3:21like basically one 24-hour period. And
3:23this is like a history dissertation at
3:25uni. That's like zero to complete in 24
3:28hours. It's not like you're enjoying
3:30your life more cuz you're not working.
3:31You're more distracted and you're you're
3:33more stressed out because you're not
3:35working and you just don't have the
3:36executive function to actually like
3:39do what you know needs to be done, which
3:40is like sit down and actually do the
3:41thing. And it's also affected my life in
3:43like lots of other ways, too. Like there
3:44was the Have I ever told
3:45>> [laughter]
3:46>> Have I ever told you about like um
3:48the the foxes incident?
3:52>> No. [clears throat]
3:52>> I mean, I don't know if how much I can
3:53go into
3:54>> I would definitely remember if something
3:55called the foxes incident came to
3:57discuss.
3:57>> think this is ADHD. I I came home from
4:00holiday and like
4:02foxes had been living inside my house
4:04basically. And like I remember my
4:05girlfriend's reaction we walked through
4:06the door. I was like, "Do we just don't
4:08come in. Don't come in." And she was
4:10like, "What, Matt? What?" And then like
4:12I I like the first thing I noticed there
4:14was like
4:15>> AI fruit?
4:15>> My
4:16Yeah, basically she is. So I walked
4:18through the door and the first thing I
4:19noticed is like slightly colder than
4:20normal. And my Doc Martens are like
4:22scattered across the floor. Like that's
4:24weird. I pick one up. I tip it over and
4:25like a bunch of basically piss comes
4:28out. And I'm like, "What is going" I
4:30look into the living room and it is just
4:32a ni- it's a nightmare scenario. Like
4:35Like there's like fox like everywhere.
4:38They They were like sleeping in our bed.
4:40Like even to this day my girlfriend's
4:42like, "I can't so imagine them shrieking
4:44in the bed." Like And And they they
4:47they went into the pantry. They The one
4:48thing they decided to eat was my like
4:51hot chocolate powder, which they could
4:53have just eaten there on the floor. But
4:54they took it over to the white sofa, the
4:56most expensive item I own. And they ate
4:58it there.
4:59And And then they discovered that
5:01chocolate is poisonous to foxes. So they
5:03like threw and threw up and diarrhe- the
5:05the chocolate all over my white sofa. So
5:07it was bad for them and for me.
5:09And like I'm seeing all of this and I'm
5:11like, "Oh my god, she's going to be" And
5:12she was pregnant by the way. She's
5:14[laughter] like I was like, "Please
5:16don't come any further." She's like,
5:17"What, Matt? What?" And basically I had
5:19left the back door like fully open,
5:21which is just like a small example
5:24>> [laughter]
5:25>> how ADHD can like ruin your
5:26relationships.
5:28Um
5:29>> [laughter]
5:29>> But like it was the [snorts] book thing
5:31that really did it for me. I was like,
5:33"This is This is too hard. This is too
5:35hard."
5:36>> The foxes, that wasn't the last straw.
5:39>> I got to replace everything. I got one
5:41of those guys on social media. You know
5:42the guys who like clean sofas. And it's
5:44like before and after. So okay, so then
5:45I did the diagnosis. So then like
5:47>> How How easy was the diagnosis process?
5:49>> it's really hard to get a diagnosis in
5:50the UK. The waiting list is huge. I like
5:52managed to kind of like hack it by like
5:55doing this kind of private NHS combo
5:58uh situation. Um and uh
6:01they like they
6:03they they they they do things like they
6:04make you sit down. You have to like do
6:05this really boring task for like 30
6:07minutes. That was like so difficult for
6:08me. And then they like film you while
6:09you're doing it. Um they do lots of
6:11questionnaires about how it affects your
6:12life. Um
6:14One of the things they try to establish
6:15is whether you had the symptoms in
6:16childhood rather than just in adulthood
6:19cuz that's cuz it's a developmental
6:21disorder, so it's always there, right?
6:23So, that's what If someone If you think
6:25that ADHD is on the rise because like we
6:28are spending too much time on our
6:28phones, more distracted, whatever, ADHD
6:30couldn't be on the rise because it's a
6:31developmental disorder.
6:32>> So, you have to have always
6:34>> Yeah, exactly.
6:35>> Um but like then then they were like
6:37they gave the medications and I I tried
6:39taking them for a bit, but you can take
6:41it and then you can stop. But then when
6:42you stop taking it, say in the evening
6:44or whatever, like you you you just feel
6:46terrible. So, yeah, basically I haven't
6:47taken the medication since. So,
6:49if you listen to Top Comment, you are
6:50getting raw, unmedicated
6:53>> [laughter]
6:53>> Matt Chisholm's ADHD brain directly into
6:56your ears.
6:57>> With or without foxes.
6:58>> Yeah.
6:58>> I've gone down the ADHD rabbit hole on
7:00my social media feed before, where you
7:02get someone pops up and they say
7:03something to you like, you know, do you
7:05do these five things?
7:07>> Mhm.
7:07>> And then you're going through and you're
7:08like, "Mhm. Oh, well, maybe I do do that
7:10or I do do this." Um and
7:13and then you find yourself being uh
7:15increasingly targeted with that kind of
7:16content and and other kind of adjacent
7:20type content as well, like about other
7:22forms of neuro divergence, etc. Um and
7:26so much of it will kind of speak in
7:28language that sounds quite scientific.
7:31Like you'll have influencers or
7:32infographics where they're saying things
7:34that that sound kind of legit. You're
7:36like, "Oh, this is like describing a
7:37particular sort of attribute or
7:40particular sort of psychological
7:42phenomenon and therefore it makes it
7:44more credible. But actually when you
7:45look at So there's this this data that's
7:47been collated by the NHS. 52% So that's
7:50like half of
7:52ADHD related videos on TikTok are
7:54inaccurate.
7:55>> Wow.
7:55>> And only 21% of popular ADHD videos are
7:59described as useful in terms of clinical
8:01standards. So that's useful for people
8:02actually understanding more about ADHD
8:04and perhaps whether they have it.
8:06>> But how do these people who
8:07self-diagnose with ADHD who don't
8:09actually have it ADHD? What does that
8:11diagnosis do for them, right? Because it
8:12can't get them the medication.
8:14>> Well, I presume actually what what is
8:15more likely to happen is that you have
8:17this um
8:18influx of people who
8:20want to be tested for ADHD, but then
8:22when they're tested for ADHD, they don't
8:24actually have it.
8:24>> clogging up the system.
8:26>> I mean, that's the worry really. And and
8:28so I I chatted to
8:30a woman called Melissa Basolu. She's the
8:31social psychologist who works at
8:33Cambridge University.
8:34And it was one of the things she
8:35highlighted straight away. Actually, the
8:38harm here is that you're clogging up a
8:40system where loads of people then think,
8:42oh maybe I do have this. Some of them
8:43will, but quite a lot of them won't. And
8:45then that means people who actually
8:46would massively benefit from having
8:49an ADHD diagnosis and being on
8:50medication or at least being able to
8:52recognize that they have ADHD
8:54aren't able to get that assistance as
8:56quickly as they otherwise would be able
8:58to.
8:59And one of the things that she
9:00highlighted when I chatted to her was
9:03about Essentially, what a lot of the
9:04content will do is hook you in by
9:06describing things that lots of people
9:08do.
9:09>> Yes.
9:10>> People with ADHD possibly do do them
9:11perhaps perhaps more so than people who
9:13don't have ADHD, but things that like
9:15losing your keys or leaving your
9:16straighteners on or whatever it is. Um
9:19and then you find yourself going down
9:21that kind of like BuzzFeed-esque quiz.
9:23Like, "Ooh, do I have
9:25>> Cuz everyone loves a quiz.
9:26>> Everyone loves a quiz and they love a
9:27quiz about themselves.
9:28>> Content I find can almost be
9:30horoscope-like
9:32in the sense that it resonates with all
9:33of us. And I I there's something really
9:35interesting happening psychologically in
9:37that once we are primed, we tend to look
9:40for and notice instances that fit that
9:42belief. If we are beginning to wonder
9:45whether we have some undiagnosed mental
9:47health condition, our brain starts
9:50hunting for cues that confirm it. And
9:52repeated exposure to content telling us
9:55why we might be underdiagnosed doesn't
9:57just nudge us towards the belief. It can
10:00actually make the belief feel more true
10:02because the repeated exposure itself
10:05creates an ease with which we process
10:07something familiar, and that often gets
10:09misread as accuracy.
10:11>> If you're a man, you're I guarantee if
10:13you're a man, you're getting this. Like
10:14what metabolism are you? Are you the
10:15wolf, the dolphin, or like the lion? And
10:18it's like
10:18>> Yeah, but I I always get like what
10:20attachment style are you? Like are you
10:21avoidant? Are you anxious? Are you
10:23disorganized? And a lot of it, I think,
10:25is a really understandable like innate
10:26human thing, which is we want to better
10:28understand ourselves. You just described
10:31how the process isn't straightforward
10:32and it's something that can often happen
10:34later in life. It doesn't necessarily
10:35happen when you're a kid. One of the
10:36things that Melissa describes is how
10:39specific groups of people, um
10:40particularly women, for example,
10:43are historically more likely not to have
10:45been diagnosed with ADHD, or how ADHD
10:47presents in those groups of people isn't
10:49as well known. And that contributes to
10:51then those groups of people seeking out
10:55that sort of content and engaging with
10:56it because actually they feel like they
10:57haven't been listened to or understood
10:59by medics and other people who could
11:02have diagnosed them.
11:02>> Many of these conditions, and in
11:05particular ADHD, is often underdiagnosed
11:08and misdiagnosed. There's a gendered
11:10aspects to it, but also for people of
11:12color, there's a real element where the
11:14usual source of information care carry
11:18access barriers for exactly those
11:20groups, and content on social media
11:22feels more accessible and more
11:24relatable.
11:25There are of course financial and
11:27logistical barriers to all of that. And
11:29so, getting an appointment or finding
11:32someone who understands you and your
11:34lived experience, especially if you hold
11:37marginalized or stigmatized identities,
11:40are huge gaps that we still need to
11:42address and that social media is for
11:45many people the first time their
11:47experience is reflected back to them.
11:50>> And one of the other reasons this seems
11:51to be happening is because of this
11:52in-out group thing, which we've talked
11:54about on Top Comment before and is
11:57essentially how algorithms
11:59recommendation systems sort us into into
12:02groups and that's really powerful
12:03because you find a community and an
12:04identity and there's a lot of kind of
12:07engagement and confirmation bias that
12:09exists in that in that world you become
12:12a part of.
12:13>> Belonging is one of our most intrinsic
12:15needs as human beings
12:17and yet in a world of extreme
12:19connectedness, we're also seeing record
12:21levels of loneliness and social
12:23isolation. And when we see people we
12:26like and trust, whether that's our
12:28actual friends and family and
12:30acquaintances online or influencers and
12:33public figures we've formed parasocial
12:35relationships with, we're very likely to
12:37trust what they tell us. Identifying
12:39with a diagnosis can become a genuine
12:42source of belonging.
12:44Suddenly, there's a community that
12:45recognizes you, a shared language, an
12:48explanation that finally fits. That's
12:51often a really good thing, but it also
12:54means questioning the content can start
12:56to feel like questioning the community
12:58or even questioning yourself. And once a
13:01belief is bound up with belonging, it's
13:03much harder to hold up to scrutiny, I
13:05think, because now there's a real social
13:08cost to doubting it.
13:09>> I've seen this
13:10more around autism than ADHD, but this
13:14idea of like really enjoying
13:17identifying as as autistic when you
13:19don't have an official diagnosis, but
13:20you self-diagnose. Like there's a whole
13:22like self-diagnosed autism community
13:25online and
13:27yeah, it has it to some people has
13:28become a kind of in group cool factor
13:31and identity for them. The whole idea of
13:33the word neurodivergent it's like
13:35instead of marginalizing people, it's
13:38saying like you're diff you know, you
13:39may be different.
13:40>> And that can be a positive thing.
13:41>> And can be a positive thing.
13:42>> Also being normal is something we
13:43chatted about on the last episode of top
13:45comment it when we're talking about the
13:47max of space and like maxing like on
13:50social media in particular but that's
13:51bled out into the real world. No one
13:53wants to just be like average.
13:55>> Yeah, yeah.
13:56>> They want to be like something and they
13:58want to like max it out. It feels like
14:00it's kind of part of that. It's like I
14:02don't want to just be like the average
14:03person.
14:04>> Yeah, absolutely.
14:06And also the term neuro spicy now which
14:08is now how a lot of kind of
14:10neurodivergent people are identifying
14:11themselves. I think fundamentally it's
14:12like you shouldn't be posting about
14:15being autistic if you don't have an
14:17official diagnosis necessarily because
14:20you may not be autistic, right? So you
14:22are claiming identity that you may not
14:23have but also
14:24>> and sharing a list of kind of attributes
14:26that people may resonate with but then
14:28it turns out that perhaps you didn't
14:29have that diagnosis and neither do they.
14:31>> Exactly and this ties into this kind of
14:33online mistrust of of the established
14:34medical society. It's like you know,
14:36this idea as you mentioned sorry, the
14:38idea as you mentioned of certain groups
14:39being under diagnosed women especially
14:41with autism as well as ADHD
14:44then saying well therefore we don't
14:45trust the medical establishment so we're
14:47going to diagnose ourselves and that's
14:49now become our identities which is also
14:50now a political identity. It's an
14:51identity that rejects Western medicine
14:54that rejects the patriarchy and and then
14:56they further entrenched themselves into
14:58a position where they're never going to
14:59get the diagnosis and the help that they
15:00need. That I think is problematic. On
15:03the other hand, the reason I sought a
15:04diagnosis of ADHD was because there were
15:07people online who were writing about the
15:08experiences I was having and the people
15:10responding were like you should look
15:12into whether you have ADHD. So like I do
15:14think that the online experience is
15:17is helpful for people and also a lot of
15:19the most famous people on the internet
15:21are autistic. I mean there's Elon Musk,
15:23there are people who self-identify as
15:24autistic like Clavicular. There's even
15:26Curtis Yarvin, he calls himself an
15:28autist, which is like the online term
15:30for autistic. It's now become in some
15:32online subcultures a kind of mark badge
15:35of honor to be autistic.
15:37>> I think this all fits into this wider
15:39landscape of medical misinformation,
15:40which we've chatted about on top
15:41comment, and is essentially about the
15:45way that lots of influencers and
15:48creators self-style as experts in areas
15:52where they don't necessarily have the
15:53relevant expertise. And obviously
15:55personal experience to some extent is an
15:57expertise, but here we're also talking
15:58about people who have possibly
15:59misdiagnosed themselves. I think it's
16:02just brought us to this place where
16:04people turn to social media because they
16:07they like the tone, they like the way
16:09that influencers explain things, they
16:10like that personalization. That's not
16:12going to be the same as when you're
16:13sitting in front of a doctor or a nurse
16:15or whoever it is, a psychologist who
16:17you're getting advice from. When I speak
16:19to doctors and nurses and psychologists,
16:22they say it's really difficult for them
16:23because they'll often have people come
16:25in and sit in front of them, and they
16:26start citing all sorts of things from
16:28social media, and they're like, "Hang on
16:29a second, where did this come from?" And
16:31ultimately, as ever, I think for me this
16:32comes back to again the social media
16:34companies and how their algorithmic
16:35systems work and what they prioritize,
16:37because a lot of this content which is
16:39hyper personal, often quite kind of
16:41gamified, like you can tick off what
16:43symptoms you've got or not got, is
16:45favored and promoted over
16:48legitimate commentary and analysis from
16:51uh doctors, clinicians, psychologists
16:54who do understand these conditions and
16:56do know what you can look for. And like
16:57that does exist, and people can seek it
16:58out, but it's it doesn't speak in
17:00absolute certainty, and it doesn't
17:02gamify it, and it doesn't get you to do
17:03a quiz. And in fact, anything that gets
17:04you to basically do a quiz diagnosing
17:06yourself in that way is probably not
17:08going to be
17:09accurate or reliable in the way that you
17:12would want and need it to. And until the
17:14companies figure out how to well, or
17:18rather decide that they want to
17:20recalibrate that balance, I think you're
17:22going to keep seeing this happen
17:23particularly for when it comes to mental
17:24health.
17:25>> And and the the damages don't just come
17:27in the kind of self-diagnosis, it's in
17:29the solutions these influencers are
17:30offering. I'm always getting like, this
17:32is how I cured my ADHD and it's like
17:35um like I have a box of candy and I give
17:37like myself a candy every time I do a
17:38task and it'll be like covering your
17:40house in post-it notes or
17:41>> It's like talking to your friend and
17:42they're like, oh I do this and it's kind
17:43of helpful and they're like
17:44>> Or the ever-present cold cold immersion.
17:46It's like, oh with ADHD I was like, I
17:48don't know if that's going to help. No,
17:49same, but like the way it's touted as a
17:51solution to like literally any like
17:53issue from cancer to depression to ADHD
17:55is is it's it's getting too much.
17:56>> It's unhelpful, yeah.

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