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The Supreme Gentleman: Alek Minassian's Interrogation — Transcript

by The Interrogator Files · 27,112 words · 3,837 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00On April 23rd, 2018, Alec Manashian
0:02drove a rented white van down a busy
0:04stretch of Yong Street in Toronto. Over
0:07the course of seven minutes, he
0:09intentionally mounted the sidewalk,
0:10striking pedestrians at high speed
0:12across a 2.3 km path. 10 people were
0:15killed and 16 more were seriously
0:17injured, including one who suffered such
0:19significant damage to her legs that they
0:21had to be amputated above the knee.
0:23Manassian was arrested just minutes
0:25later after a tense standoff with a lone
0:27police officer. Despite pretending to
0:29have a weapon and demanding to be shot,
0:31the officer deescalated the
0:33confrontation, leading to Manassian's
0:35arrest without further violence.
0:37Investigators soon uncovered a
0:39disturbing motive. Before the attack,
0:41Manassian posted on Facebook praising
0:43Elliot Roger, the gunman behind the 2014
0:46Isa Vista killings and claimed
0:48allegiance to the Incel Rebellion, a
0:51misogynistic online subculture of men
0:53who identify as involuntarily celibate.
0:56During his confession, Manassian
0:58expressed resentment over his lack of
1:00romantic and sexual success and admitted
1:02he planned the attack as retribution.
1:04This is the interrogation of Alec
1:06Manassian.
1:12And you can just have a seat in the
1:14corner right over there. Okay.
1:16Just have a seat right there,
1:17please. Thanks very much.
2:32Hello. Hi. How are you? Doing good. How
2:34are you? Good. Good. You drink water?
2:37Sure. Thank you very much. Thanks so
2:40much. How you feeling? I'm good. You
2:43feeling okay? My name's Rob Thomas.
2:46Nice. Hi. How are you? How are you? You
2:48doing okay? Yeah. Yeah. You probably had
2:51better days than this. I guess. Yeah.
2:53Well, I am a little shaken to be honest.
2:55Little
2:56shakus usually obviously. Yeah. Yeah.
2:59Know I can appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah.
3:01Um Alec. Do you mind if I call you Alec?
3:04Yeah, sure. Is it What do your friends
3:05normally call you? Alec.
3:07Alec. Alec, my name's Rob Thomas. I want
3:10you to call me Rob from here on in.
3:12Okay. Okay. Is that okay? Okay. Okay.
3:15Alec, I want you to understand
3:16something. I'm a senior detective with
3:19the Toronto Police. Do you understand
3:21what that means? Uh, yes. You know, I'm
3:24a police officer. Yes. Okay. I don't
3:27wear a uniform. I wear a a suit and tie
3:30because of the type of work that I do.
3:32But although I'm in a a suit and tie,
3:33I'm an actual police officer. Okay.
3:37Um, and I'm the one of the senior
3:40investigators on this case. Okay. I got
3:42called in for this this this specific
3:44case because of what's happened and the
3:46involvement and everything else that's
3:47been going on. Okay. Before we get
3:50started, I want you to know that we're
3:52being videotaped and audio taped. Okay.
3:54Okay. Do you know what I mean by that?
3:56Yes. Everything I sing and do is being
3:59captured. Exactly. Yeah. On on audio and
4:01video. Okay. Now, uh here's what I want
4:05to do. Uh Alec, um I want to talk to
4:08you. Okay. Um we're going to spend a a
4:12good deal of time together. Okay. Um
4:17it's important that I talk to you. All
4:19right. Um, I'm going to ask you
4:22questions. Okay. Going to ask you
4:24questions about uh your background, your
4:28education,
4:30um, your relationships with your family
4:33and friends,
4:35um, work,
4:38travel, and I'm going to ask you
4:40questions about what happened today.
4:43Okay? Um, you don't have to answer those
4:45questions if you don't want. Okay? You
4:47understand that? Yes. Um, but if you do
4:50decide to answer my questions, okay? I
4:54just ask that you do two things for me.
4:57Okay? First thing is I ask that uh you
5:00treat me with respect. Okay? I promise
5:03to treat you with respect throughout the
5:05entire night. Okay? All I ask is you do
5:06the same for me. Is that okay? Yes.
5:08Okay. Uh and uh the other thing I ask,
5:11Alec, and I and I've been doing this a
5:13long time, okay? Uh, and I typically
5:15never have any problems with people or
5:16anything like that. I don't expect to
5:17have a problem with you today, but um,
5:20if you do decide to answer my questions,
5:22would you do me the favor and and just
5:23speak from the heart, okay? And just be
5:26truthful. That's all I ask. Does that
5:28sound fair? Yes. Is that okay? Okay. Um
5:34now my understanding is uh earlier today
5:42um there was an incident and you
5:45ultimately got arrested by a police
5:47officer.
5:49Do you remember that?
5:52I do remember getting arrested. Okay. Uh
5:55do you remember uh it was a uniform
5:56police officer who arrested you? So in
5:58other words, he was a police officer in
5:59a in a uniform. Yes, I remember he had a
6:02uniform. Yeah. Okay. And I know there
6:04was a bit of an altercation. We'll get
6:05into that, but basically I just want to
6:06kind of uh you know cover off a few
6:08points before we get started. My
6:09understanding is that uh that incident
6:14the time that you got arrested, you were
6:16on or near the area of Young Street
6:18earlier today. Is that right? Uh and a
6:21police officer told you that you were
6:23going to be placed under arrest and he
6:25placed you under arrest. Do you remember
6:26that? I remember that. Okay. Do you
6:29remember what he arrested you for?
6:32I
6:34believe I may have been
6:37arrested for something similar to
6:41murder. Okay.
6:44Okay. I u I believe it was originally
6:47you were arrested for attempted
6:48murder and subsequent to that uh the
6:52officer placed you in handcuffs. Is that
6:53right? Yes. Yeah. And then he uh um he
6:57placed you into the back of his car.
7:00Correct. Correct. Uh and then uh you
7:03were transported or you were you were
7:05delivered here in a police car to to 32
7:08division. Correct. Do you remember that?
7:10And following that you uh were taken
7:13into the building and you spoke to uh I
7:17believe it was a a gentleman uh and he's
7:20known as a staff sergeant. He would have
7:21had three stripes on his on his shoulder
7:23with a crown. He would have asked you
7:25questions about your your medical uh
7:28history, whether or not you were
7:29suicidal,
7:31uh whether or not you understood why you
7:32were being placed under arrest. I
7:34remember that. Okay. When you were
7:36placed under arrest, did the officer
7:37read read anything to you?
7:42I remember being read a uh the signs on
7:46the uh left hand wall stating um my
7:50right. Okay. Okay. So you would have
7:52been read either at the time you were
7:55arrested or certainly when you got into
7:57the police station you were providing
7:59your rights to counsel. Is that right?
8:00So it would have been something like
8:02this. You're going to be arrested for
8:04attempted murder. It's my duty to inform
8:07you that you have the right to retain a
8:08struck counsel without delay. You have
8:09the right to telephone lawyer wish. You
8:11also have the right to Yeah. Now Yeah.
8:12Now I'm starting to come back. Yeah.
8:15Okay. Let me just finish here because
8:16it's important you understand this.
8:18Uh, you have the right to telephone any
8:20lawyer you wish. You also have the right
8:22to free advice from a legal aid lawyer.
8:23If you're charged with offense, you may
8:24apply to the Ontario Legal Aid Plan for
8:25assistance.
8:261800265451 is a toll-free number that'll
8:28put you in contact with a legal a duty
8:30council lawyer for free legal advice
8:32right now. Do you remember that? Yeah,
8:34now I remember that. Do you remember the
8:36officer reading you that? To be honest,
8:39um, the I encountered very I encountered
8:43various police officers. I don't
8:45remember which one read me the letter.
8:47Okay. All right. Uh, but nevertheless,
8:49you were read you were read, we call
8:50that a caution. You were read that
8:52caution. Yes. Actually, now that you
8:54mentioned the word caution, I do
8:56remember hearing the words a primary
8:57caution and secondary caution. Okay,
8:59great. Okay, great. Okay, that's that's
9:01interesting because not a lot of people
9:02can remember those words. Okay, so
9:04that's what I read you is what we refer
9:06to as a primary caution. So you don't
9:08let me just get this straight. You're
9:09not sure if you remember the police
9:11officer reading you those rights or if
9:13you were read those that that primary
9:14caution in the building. Is that right?
9:18Uh actually
9:20I'm I'm pretty sure I was read the the
9:23the caution inside that room within the
9:27building with the uh camera and the
9:29desk. Right. Right. So we call that the
9:31booking hall. Okay. Uh do you know what
9:34do do you know what it is that that I
9:36just read you? What what what was read
9:38to you uh when you're inside the booking
9:39hall? Do you know what what that means?
9:44I believe to my best understanding it
9:46means as you said before um the rights
9:49that I have um my right to counsel
9:53right do you know what counsel do you
9:55know what counsel means uh a lawyer or
9:58attorney perfect exactly yeah so that
10:00what that means is actually a couple
10:02things it means that you can call a
10:03lawyer one one it means at the time you
10:05were placed under arrest you're being
10:06placed under arrest for attempted murder
10:08uh what that primary caution means that
10:10you uh you can speak to a lawyer. Okay?
10:14Uh or we call them counsel. Uh uh if you
10:18don't have a lawyer or counsel of
10:20choice, uh it means that you can call uh
10:23a free lawyer and we call that duty
10:26counsel or legal aid. Okay? Um and the
10:301800
10:312650451 is a toll-free number that you
10:33can call to speak to duty counsel or
10:36legal aid for free legal advice. Do you
10:38understand? Do you understand what that
10:39means? Yes. So basically means you can
10:41call a lawyer. If you don't have a
10:42lawyer, you can speak to a free lawyer,
10:44right? What it also means is that if
10:47you're charged with an offense, so if
10:49you're charged by the police for a
10:52crime, uh, and you can't afford a
10:55lawyer, okay, you can
10:58uh you can apply to the the government
11:01to pay for your lawyer. Does that make
11:03sense? Yes. Okay. And we call that legal
11:05aid. Okay. Um now my understanding is um
11:12the officers then provided you a
11:14secondary caution.
11:16Yes. Okay. It would have been something
11:18like
11:21this. Uh you're going to be charged with
11:24attempted murder. You're not obliged to
11:26say anything unless you wish to do so.
11:27But whatever you do say may be given an
11:28evidence. You understand what that
11:30means? Uh yes. means that I'm not
11:33required to speak, but anything I say
11:35can you will be used against me. Yeah,
11:39that's the sort of the American version
11:41of the Miranda rightites in Canada.
11:42Yeah, I've watched too much TV. You
11:43watch so I uh what what you watch a lot
11:47of TV like TV programs like crime drama
11:49programs on TV? Uh it's one of the I I
11:54used to watch a lot of CSI. Oh, you did?
11:56I love I love that show. But um yeah, so
11:58in the States they call that the
11:59Miranda. Anything you say in Canada will
12:00be used against unicore law. In Canada,
12:03we're a little bit different than the
12:04United States. I like to think we're a
12:06lot different actually than the United
12:07States. And what we have in Canada is is
12:09is a different type of caution. Anything
12:11that you say can be entered into
12:13evidence. And so anything that you say
12:14to me today, because we're being
12:16videotaped and audio tape, a judge can
12:18watch that. Okay? And he can listen to
12:20what it is you're saying. Okay? All
12:22right.
12:24Um now, uh did the officers read you any
12:28other cautions?
12:30I don't remember being read any other
12:31cautions to be honest. Okay, I want to
12:34read one more to
12:38you and
12:41uh it goes like this. If you've spoken
12:44to any police officer or to anyone in
12:46authority or if any such person has
12:47spoken to you in connection with this
12:48case, I want it clearly understood that
12:50I do not want to influence you in making
12:51a statement. Yes, actually I do remember
12:54being read that. You do? Okay. When do
12:56you remember being read that? uh while I
12:58was in my cell by a um
13:02by a non-uniformed officer. He was uh
13:05dressed formally. Okay. Was he similar
13:07to you? Oh, I see. In a suit and tie.
13:10Yes. I believe he may have been a
13:11detective. Mhm. Mhm. Okay. Well, that
13:14makes sense. Um do you understand what
13:17that means?
13:18Uh yes. means that um any any statement
13:23whenever I'm making a statement, it
13:26shouldn't affected by something that one
13:29cop said to me. It should just be
13:32simply whatever I feel is the best as my
13:35defense.
13:37You you're absolutely right. You know
13:38what? You hit it right on the head. You
13:40know what? Um uh and I thank you for
13:42that. That's that's very important.
13:44Yeah. Basically, what it means is that
13:46um if you've spoken to any police
13:48officer, and I You may not have spoken
13:50to a lot of police officers, but I know
13:52a lot of police officers have spoken to
13:53you today. Everything from the uniformed
13:55officer who arrested you right through
13:57to the booking officers who uh um uh
14:01collected your information when you came
14:03into the station right up to the
14:04officers who came down into the cells
14:07and and advised you of of further
14:09charges that were going to be laid.
14:10You've spoken to a lot of police
14:11officers today. Am I Am I right? Yes.
14:14How many in total do you think you've
14:15spoken to?
14:17I would say at least five. at least
14:19five. Okay. Uh what I what what that
14:22means that caution that I I gave you
14:23what that means is that if anybody if
14:26any of those officers or anybody else
14:28for that matter I've said to you that
14:30you have to talk to me. Okay. That's
14:33incorrect. Do you understand that? Yes.
14:35Okay. Um uh you don't have to talk to
14:38me. Okay. So if anybody uh has uh told
14:41you that you have to speak to me, I
14:42don't want you to listen to what they
14:44they they said. All right. Uh, I'm
14:46assuming nobody's threatened you or made
14:48you any kind of promise. Uh, no.
14:50Nobody's threatened you? No. No.
14:52Nobody's promised made you made made
14:53promises. No. For you. Okay. Um, we call
14:56those inducements. So, nobody's nobody's
14:58uh offered you any type of inducement, I
15:00hope, or anything like that. Oh, no.
15:02Okay. So, basically what it means is
15:04that um you don't have to listen to uh
15:06what the police have said to you
15:07previously prior to you meeting me here
15:09today. Um, and that if you do decide to
15:12talk to me that it just be, like I said,
15:14from the heart and it and it be
15:15truthful. We call that being voluntary.
15:17Does that make sense? Yes, that makes a
15:19lot of sense. Okay. Um, now in addition
15:23to that, I just want to I just want to
15:24clarify one more thing. Um, did you did
15:28you speak to the police and and tell
15:30them what happened today?
15:37Sorry, I'm just need a minute to think
15:39about
15:40that. Are you asking if I in any way
15:43confessed? Well, I'm I'm asking if you
15:46you uh Yes, if you confessed or if you
15:48made a statement at all to any other
15:49police officer.
15:52I never made any significant statement
15:54about any events that occurred before I
15:57was arrested. Great. Great. Okay. So,
15:59uh, if you did have any conversation
16:00with any police officer prior to being
16:02brought into this room, all right? And
16:05that includes, uh, making a statement or
16:06a confession, okay? Uh, I want you to
16:09ignore what you've said, okay? And, uh,
16:12I don't want you to, uh, refer back to
16:15that conversation. Okay? What I mean by
16:17referring back, I don't want you to tell
16:20me uh about any conversations you've had
16:22with any other police officers. Okay?
16:24Uh, what I'd like to do is start fresh.
16:27We call this a clean slate. Okay. So,
16:29from here on in, okay, I want this to be
16:32a fresh start. Okay. Does that make
16:34sense? Yes. Pretty pretty
16:36straightforward. Um Okay. Now, uh when
16:38the officer arrested you, did uh he put
16:42handcuffs on you? Yes. Right. Um and uh
16:46my understanding is the handcuffs were
16:47behind your back. Yes. Okay. And uh um
16:52he did he he patted you down? Did he
16:55What do I mean by that? Did he search
16:56you? I remember I remember being
16:59searched at actually I remember later on
17:03as other officers uh came in I was uh
17:07stood up brought uh to the cruiser and
17:11then as I was leaning on the car I
17:13remember at that point I was being
17:15searched. Okay. All right. And so as far
17:18as the search is concerned what uh what
17:20uh to what extent were you searched?
17:25In other words, what did they search?
17:27What did the officers do? Uh, I it was a
17:29pat down of the entire body to make sure
17:31there was no weapons or anything like
17:33that on me. Okay. And how do you know
17:34that they they were searching for
17:36weapons and things like that?
17:39Because they uh I remember they were
17:41searching my pockets. They were feeling
17:43my chest, my back, my legs. Uh so that
17:47would be an indication that they feel
17:50felt I had weapons on me. Okay. Did the
17:52officer say anything to you while they
17:54were doing this?
17:58I don't remember uh exactly what they
18:00said. Okay. Other than just uh stand
18:04still. Okay. Did anybody tell you that
18:07they were searching for weapons?
18:11I do remember, although I don't remember
18:14the exact words, I do remember there was
18:16a mention of being uh searched for
18:18weapons. I I may they may not have been
18:20speaking directly to me, but they may
18:22have been speaking to each other. Okay.
18:24Did they take your clothes off? No. Did
18:26any part of your clothing come off? No.
18:28Okay. And so then from there, you were
18:30placed in the car, correct? Okay. All
18:32right. And uh um how many police
18:36officers were in the car while you were
18:38being driven to the station? Two. Two.
18:40Okay. And uh I'm presuming they were
18:43both in the front? Yes. Okay. And did
18:45you have any conversation with the
18:46police officers? No. Okay. And then you
18:49arrived here at the station. Yes. Okay.
18:51And how long of a how long of a a drive
18:53was that? About 10 minutes. About 10
18:56minutes. Okay. And um uh did it appear
19:00to be a direct route? Yes. In other
19:02words, they didn't stop for coffee or
19:03anything like that or No. Okay. All
19:05right. And um and then uh you came into
19:08a garage. Yes. Okay. We call that the
19:11selling port. That's what that we refer
19:13to that as. And uh
19:15um you were I I understand you were
19:18taken out of the backseat of the car.
19:20Yes. And then you were led to a desk.
19:23Yes. And there was an an officer an off
19:26a a senior officer, a higher ranking
19:28officer was behind that desk. You
19:29probably didn't know that, but we we
19:31call that officer the officer in charge
19:33of the station.
19:35Do you understand that? Yes. And uh uh
19:38he would have asked you some questions.
19:41Yes. Okay. And um my understanding is
19:44those questions uh dealt specifically
19:46with uh any medical issues. Uh yes.
19:50Right. And um whether or not you
19:52understood why you were being placed
19:53under arrest. Yes. And um and whether or
19:56not you understood your rights to
19:57counsel or the right your right to to
19:59call a lawyer. Yes. Okay. And then um
20:02from there, my understanding is you were
20:05taken to the cell area. Yes. Okay. And
20:08you were placed in a
20:10cell and uh uh my understanding is that
20:13cell has a bathroom has a toilet. It has
20:16a toilet and a sink. Yes. And uh and
20:19then following that now there were a
20:21couple of other events that are
20:22important. Uh one was
20:25um my understanding is you were given an
20:28opportunity to speak to a lawyer. Yes.
20:31Okay. And you uh you indicated to the
20:35officers that you didn't have a lawyer.
20:37Correct. And that you didn't know who to
20:39call. Correct. And so the officers
20:41offered you an opportunity to speak to
20:43duty counsel, which is that free legal
20:45service that I talked about. Correct.
20:47Okay. And my understanding is you spoke
20:49to to duty counsel. Correct. Okay. Um
20:55and you did that in private. Is that
20:57right? Correct. In other words, there
20:58wasn't anybody listening to your
21:00conversation. Correct. Okay. Now, I
21:01don't want you to tell me what the
21:03lawyer said, but did you understand what
21:05the lawyer was telling you? Yes. Okay.
21:07Are you satisfied with the information
21:09that he told you? Yes. Okay. Um, now,
21:14uh, following that, my understanding is,
21:16and I might might have gotten the
21:18sequence of events, uh, mixed up, so
21:20correct me if I'm wrong. Um, there's
21:22been a lot going on today, and I've been
21:24very busy, but uh, my understanding is
21:25at some point,
21:28uh, if I'm not mistaken, a police
21:29officer in a suit came down and he told
21:31you that the he he updated you with
21:34respect to the charges that were going
21:36to be laid. Yes. Okay. And did do you
21:38remember what he said to you? Yes. So,
21:41initial originally the charges were nine
21:44counts of first-degree murder, right?
21:46Then later on it got updated to 10
21:48counts of first-degree murder plus uh 15
21:51counts of attempted murder. Exactly.
21:54Yes, that's my understanding. So, my
21:55understanding is um as the night
21:56progressed and as we were learning more
21:58information,
22:00uh it it came to our attention that uh
22:03um seven people have have have died.
22:06Sorry, nine people have died. I
22:07apologize. uh um as a result of an
22:10incident that occurred on Young Street
22:11and uh so subsequent to that uh my
22:14understanding is the officers came down
22:16and they spoke to you to advise you that
22:18you would the charges would be upgraded
22:20to nine counts of first-degree murder.
22:22Do you understand what first-degree
22:23murder is? It's a pre premediated murder
22:27and completely intentional and
22:29considered to be what's known as in cold
22:32blood.
22:33Well, yeah. Yeah, that's a fairly uh a
22:35fairly
22:36uh uh
22:41uh precise way of of describing it. What
22:44we we call it premeditated. It means
22:46premeditated. You understand what
22:47premeditated means? Yes. It means it
22:50would mean that someone planned for that
22:52murder in advance, right? Planning and
22:54deliberation. In other words, you you um
22:57if somebody committed first-degree
22:58murder, they would have uh took the time
23:00out to think about what they were going
23:02to do. Uh sit down and uh uh deliberate
23:06over the the plan. So, in other words,
23:08they were going to sit down and go over
23:09the details of the plan, figure out what
23:10it is they were going to do, how they
23:11were going to execute the plan, and so
23:13on so forth to commit a murder. Plan and
23:15deliberate. That's what it means. So,
23:18there's a lot of thought and energy that
23:20goes into planning to kill somebody.
23:22That's that's what first-degree murder
23:23is. Okay.
23:25Um, and so initially it was nine counts
23:28of first-degree murder. And do you
23:30remember the officer that uh that told
23:31you told you that? I believe if I
23:34believe if I remember correctly, it was
23:36the officer wearing the suit. The
23:39officer wearing the suit who uh walked
23:42you in here today or walked you into
23:44this room?
23:47Uh, yes. Okay. All right. Uh, now, did
23:51he tell you that you could speak to a
23:52lawyer again?
23:54Yes. Okay. So, he gave you your rights
23:57to counsel again. Yes. Okay. Uh and in
24:01answer to that that caution, that first
24:04caution, uh do you do you understand did
24:07you understand what you were being
24:08arrested for? Yes. Okay. Did you
24:10understand that the charges were now
24:12being upgraded to nine counts of
24:13first-degree murder? Yes. And did you
24:15understand that you could call a lawyer
24:16again? Yes. Okay. And what did you say
24:18to the officer in response to calling a
24:20lawyer again?
24:24I I think I simply just acknowledged. I
24:27said, "Okay." Okay. My understanding is
24:30he asked you, "Do you want to speak to a
24:31lawyer again?" Do you remember what you
24:34said to him?
24:36I believe I said no thanks. Okay. That's
24:39the reason I did. So, the reason I gave
24:40that response was because since I had
24:42already spoken to a lawyer very
24:44recently, I felt that I wouldn't be
24:45given new information at that point.
24:47Right. That makes sense. Yeah, that
24:48makes sense. Okay. That was my
24:50understanding. And then uh subsequent to
24:52that um now again I might have the the
24:56uh the facts mixed up um just in terms
24:58of the chronology but uh my
25:01understanding is uh did somebody come
25:04down and take photos of you? Yes. Okay.
25:07Was
25:08that okay well uh let's actually
25:11happened twice. Okay. Uh and initi the
25:14first time it happened was very at the
25:16very beginning of when I got arrested.
25:18Right. Um I sat down in a chair. I had
25:22front, left, right. Then later on in the
25:25evening, I again had
25:28um uh I was standing up in front of that
25:32chair and had left, right, front and
25:35back. Okay. Well, let's talk about that.
25:36So the first time you had your photo
25:38taken, front, left, and right. Where was
25:40that done?
25:44inside the uh room with the uh camera
25:47and the fingerprint machine
25:49uh about a few about 10 steps away from
25:52the uh cell block I was in. Okay. So,
25:54they took you out of the cells. Yes.
25:56Into what we call the print room. Yes.
25:58Yeah. And so, uh the booker would have
26:01we call him the booker, the individual
26:02that takes your photographs and takes
26:03your fingerprints. Uh we call him the
26:05booker. Did they take your fingerprints
26:07at all? Yes, they did. Okay. It was at
26:10the same time that I initially had my uh
26:13picture taken. Okay. All right. Okay.
26:15And uh and then from there you were
26:17returned to the cell. Yes. Okay. And
26:19then you were uh you were uh uh you were
26:22your photographs were taken once again
26:24or you were photographed once again
26:26after that. So you were photographed a
26:27second time. Yes. Okay. And where did
26:28that take place? In the same uh room. In
26:31the same room. Okay. Was it by the same
26:33officer? No, it was by another officer.
26:36Yes. Okay. And uh uh this time you were
26:40standing you said. Yes. Okay. Uh the
26:42first time you were sitting. Yes. When
26:44you were photographed. The second time
26:45you were photographed you were standing.
26:47Yes. Okay. And uh the officer who took
26:50the second set of photos, what was he
26:52wearing?
26:54He was uh uniformed. In a uniform. Okay.
26:57Um and uh was he the individual who took
27:00you out of the cell?
27:02Yes. Okay. And then my understanding is
27:04you returned to the cell? Yes. Okay. Uh
27:07and then at some point you also turned
27:10over your clothing. Yes. Okay. Uh when
27:14did that happen? That happened at the
27:16very beginning when I got when I was uh
27:18brought to the police station. Okay. All
27:21right. That happened uh at the very
27:24beginning. So uh at what point was it?
27:27That was initially before I was uh put
27:30into my cell. I was in some other uh
27:32holding room that just had some chair
27:35there. At that point, I had all my
27:38clothes uh taken off um just to be
27:42seized as evidence. Okay. And and then
27:45then I was given my underwear back. I
27:47put up back on and then I was given an
27:50orange jumpsuit and then two minutes
27:53later I was taken out of the orange
27:56jumpsuit and then I was given this white
27:58bodysuit. Okay. And that was before you
28:00went into the cell. Correct. Okay. And
28:03uh so let's talk about that for a
28:04minute. So when they took your clothes
28:06off, uh you were put in a room, you
28:08said. Correct. Okay. And um uh did the
28:12officers explain to you why they were
28:14taking your clothes? Uh as evidence. As
28:17evidence. Okay. And uh also just because
28:20uh of concerns that I'm that I might
28:21have something within the clothes. Okay.
28:24So you were we call that a level three
28:26search. Yeah. Actually, now that you
28:28mentioned it, I remember that exact term
28:30being used. Yeah. Yeah. So, we we we do
28:33that in cases where we're dealing with
28:34individuals who we don't know because we
28:36don't know you. Um who are involved in
28:38relatively serious events, which
28:40unfortunately you are. Um and so we do
28:43it for uh our safety as well as your
28:46safety as well as to ensure that we're
28:48collecting, you know, all the evidence
28:50we possibly can, right? Because the idea
28:51at the end of the day is we we just want
28:53to come to the truth as to what's going
28:54on. That's that's the bottom line,
28:56right? We have to do these things and
28:57sometimes they're intrusive but uh we
28:59try and do it in a manner that uh is as
29:02um dignified as possible. So uh when you
29:06when you had your clothes taken off uh
29:08were you completely naked?
29:12I was only completely naked for about 10
29:15seconds. Okay. All right. And uh did you
29:18have some privacy in this room that you
29:20were this room? No. No. The room you had
29:23they they took your clothes off.
29:26Actually, to be honest, I don't
29:28remember. I think there may have been
29:30some officers there. Okay. Were there
29:33because my my my uh face was towards the
29:35wall the entire time. Okay. All right.
29:37How many officers were there? I think
29:40about four. Four. I don't remember the
29:42exact number to be honest. Okay. Were
29:43there any female officers? I don't
29:46believe so. Okay. All right. Was
29:48anything being videotaped?
29:50I don't remember seeing a uh camera in
29:52that room. Okay. All right. Okay.
29:54Um, but nevertheless, you were only uh
29:58completely naked for about 10 seconds.
29:59Correct. Okay. And then they gave you an
30:01an orange jumpsuit. Yes. Okay. And then
30:04you were uh then you were brought to the
30:06cells. You spoke to Laura. You
30:07photographed. Well, actually um I was
30:10switched into this uh white bodysuit
30:13before being taken into by uh a cell
30:16because that I was only in that orange
30:17jumpsuit for about two minutes. Oh,
30:19okay. Okay. And uh the reason behind
30:21putting you into a white jumpsuit, did
30:22they tell you?
30:25I believe if they did tell me, I don't
30:27remember the reason. Okay. Okay. Um the
30:31the reason would have been to keep your
30:32your feet protected, right? Because I
30:34don't think you had uh you had the the
30:37the boots on the orange jumpsuit. Oh,
30:39yeah. I remember they said something
30:40about the there wasn't any footwear.
30:42Right. Right. Okay. Uh okay. So from
30:45there, you you went into the white
30:46jumpsuit. Then you were put placed in
30:47the cells. You spoke to your lawyer.
30:50Yes. And then you were photographed
30:52twice. Correct. Okay. Uh in addition,
30:55the officer came down to advise you that
30:57uh you'd be charged with nine counts of
30:58first-degree murder, right? Yes. Okay.
31:01And my understanding is uh I believe it
31:03was the same officer at some point in
31:05time, he then came down to advise you
31:07that you were going to now be charged
31:08with 10 counts of first-degree murder
31:10and 15 counts of attempted murder.
31:12Correct. Okay. And during the sequence
31:14of events, at what point did that
31:16officer come down and tell you that
31:21the upgraded charge was uh after I uh
31:25spoke to the uh my lawyer? Okay. How
31:28many times did you speak to a lawyer?
31:29Once. Okay. So, it would have come after
31:32the the the first time you spoke to the
31:34lawyer. It would have come after the the
31:36the the officers telling you you were
31:38being upgraded. The counts would be
31:39upgraded to nine counts of murder. So,
31:42it would have been it would have been uh
31:46um it would have
31:48been some time after you spoke to your
31:51lawyer that they told you that uh you
31:53you were now being charged with 10
31:54counts of murder, first-degree murder
31:55and 15 counts of attempt. Correct.
31:57Correct. Okay. Did the officers explain
32:00to you again uh the the uh your rights
32:03as far as calling a lawyer? Yes. Okay.
32:05And what did you say to them in response
32:07to that? I simply said, "Okay." Okay.
32:11Okay. And anything else? Uh, no. My
32:15understanding is the officers asked you,
32:17uh, do you wish to call a lawyer? Uh,
32:20yes, they did. Uh, the So, the second
32:22time I said no thanks. And the reason,
32:24as I said before, the reason I gave that
32:25answer is just because I had very
32:27recently spoken to a lawyer, so I
32:29thought that I wouldn't be given any
32:31additional information at that point.
32:33Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Well,
32:35um, here here's here's what I'm telling
32:38you here today, and it's important you
32:39understand what I'm saying. Okay. Um,
32:41you're going to be charged with 10
32:42counts of first-degree murder. Okay. As
32:45well as 15 counts of attempted murder.
32:48Um, I've read you your rights to
32:49counsel, your caution, secondary
32:50caution, so forth. Uh, do you wish to
32:53speak to a
32:55lawyer? The choice is yours.
32:59Yes, I will speak to a lawyer. You want
33:02to speak to a lawyer? Yes, please. Okay.
33:04Uh, did you have a lawyer or did you
33:05want to speak to duty counsel? I'd like
33:08to speak to duty counsel, please. Okay.
33:09Yeah, no problem. So, can you just hold
33:11on just can you sit tight for one
33:13second? I'm just going to just exit the
33:15room here for one minute. Okay. Um, if
33:18you just sit tight, I'll be right back
33:20and then I'll take you down. We can be
33:22back.
34:18Stop it.
35:29Okay, this is just an audio recording.
35:31here. I'm going to take this with me.
35:32Okay. Okay. Uh I'm not going to have any
35:34trouble with you, right? Yeah. You
35:36promised me that? Yes. Okay. I
35:38appreciate that.
35:40I'm just going to take you down the
35:41hall. We'll just put you in a room.
35:42Okay. And uh
35:57they're okay. Alex has been placed into
36:00major crime unit number one. I'm going
36:02to call the council.
36:13phone call has been made to duty council
36:15and uh we're just waiting for a call
36:31back. Just give me a sec. Sure.
36:57Okay.
37:00So before we go any further, just tell
37:03me what happened from the time we left
37:06this room until the time we came back.
37:08What took place? My lawyer told me not
37:11to answer.
37:13Okay. Uh I understand that. Okay. And
37:16and I'm glad you told me that. Um you
37:18know why? Because that that tells me you
37:20understand what your rights are. Okay.
37:25Um but I need you need to understand
37:28something. Okay.
37:32Um we the police have a have a job to
37:35do. Okay. And and that job includes uh
37:40collecting evidence, speaking to people,
37:43um trying to understand and uncover
37:45what's happened, what took place, uh and
37:49asking
37:50questions, and uh we're obligated to to
37:55to sit down and speak to people like
37:57yourself who are in this position and
37:59ask you questions. All right? Uh your
38:01lawyer's right. You don't have to answer
38:03any questions. Okay? But you need to
38:05understand something, Ellen. Okay? Um I
38:08still have to ask you questions, okay?
38:12And I'm going to ask you questions. All
38:14right? Uh and I'm going to talk, okay?
38:18And it's not I'm not I'm not doing that
38:19to to to make you feel intimidated or to
38:22to make you scared or to say things that
38:24you don't want to hear, okay? But the
38:26bottom line is we have a very difficult
38:29job to do, okay? and and this is a very
38:32very important matter that we're we're
38:34dealing with here today. All right? So,
38:37uh I'm going to ask you questions. Uh if
38:40you don't want to answer them, you can
38:41tell me you don't want to answer it. Uh
38:44or you don't have to say anything at
38:45all. I I totally understand that. But as
38:47long as we can still maintain that
38:49respect that we talked about at the
38:51beginning, is that cool? Yes. Is that
38:53cool? You're not going to offend me.
38:55Okay.
38:56um uh you're not going to make me upset
38:58or or or insult me if you say, "Rob, I
39:01don't want to answer that question."
39:02Okay? Uh if you're kicking over the
39:04table and screaming, well, that that's
39:06going to that's going to cause a
39:07problem. Okay? But I'm not going to be
39:08offended. Okay? And I understand. Okay?
39:11But you also need to understand that I I
39:13have I have a job to do. I have to ask
39:15questions. Okay? Um, if you don't want
39:18to tell me what we did from the time we
39:19left, the time we came back, um, is it
39:22fair to say that, uh, while we were out,
39:24you spoke to a lawyer? Yes. Okay. And
39:28I'm going to suggest that, um, the only
39:30person you had any contact with was was
39:33with me. Is that right?
39:36What do you mean? Well, you didn't speak
39:38to any other police officers, correct?
39:41Right. So, I'm the only police officer
39:43uh that was in your custody from the
39:45time we left this room until the time we
39:47came back. Uh I took you down the hall
39:50to a room, placed you into a a small
39:52room with a a seat. Uh we I made a phone
39:56call or I had uh an officer make a phone
39:58call to duty counsel. Um we originally
40:02placed uh one call. We had to wait. We
40:04couldn't hear uh we didn't we didn't
40:06hear back. So, we placed a second call.
40:08We still didn't hear back. I came in and
40:10I actually opened the door and I
40:11informed you that we were still waiting
40:13to call. Do you remember that? Yes.
40:16Okay. Um I think I asked you if you
40:19wanted to borrow the washroom as well.
40:20Do you remember that? I remember. Yeah.
40:23And you said what did you say? I don't
40:26recall. You said you didn't need to
40:27borrow the washroom. Oh, now I remember
40:29that. Okay. All right. And then finally,
40:32we got duty counsel on the line. Uh uh
40:35we put the uh the council the the lawyer
40:38uh uh over we handed the the phone over
40:40to you. My understanding is his name was
40:42Mr. Rodriguez. Did he tell you what his
40:44name was?
40:46I don't recall his name. Okay. He
40:49identified himself as Mr. Rodriguez to
40:51me. I don't want you to tell me the
40:52conversation you had. Uh it's what we
40:55call
40:56private. But I I want to ask you, did
40:59you understand the conversation that you
41:00had with Mr. Rodriguez? Yes. Do you
41:02understand what he said to you?
41:04Yes. Are you satisfied with the
41:06information that he's provided you? Yes.
41:08Okay, great. Um, and then from there,
41:11uh, you had a lengthy conversation. I
41:13only know that because, uh, from the
41:14time I handed you the phone until the
41:16time you knocked on the door, it was
41:17quite some time. I'm guessing it was
41:20over 10 minutes.
41:23At least. At least over 10 minutes.
41:25Yeah. And then, uh, I came to the door
41:27and uh, uh, I asked you if things were
41:30okay. You knocked on the door, so I
41:32opened it. You told me that you finished
41:33your conversation with the lawyer. I
41:35asked if how you feeling. Uh if things
41:37were okay, you said yes. I asked if you
41:39wanted to bore the washroom again.
41:40Remember that? Yes. And you said no. And
41:43then we walked back right in here. Is
41:46that right? Yes. And did anybody else
41:48talk to you? No. Did you talk to anybody
41:50else? No. Is there anything I'm missing?
41:53No. That's pretty pretty
41:54straightforward, eh? Yeah. Yes. Okay.
41:57Um, and then uh
41:59uh so my understanding is uh that's
42:05that's essentially what took place from
42:06the time you were arrested right up
42:09until the time you were brought into
42:10this room. We've covered off basically
42:12everything, haven't we? Yes. Okay. Did I
42:14miss anything? No. Anything of
42:16importance? Um if I'm not mistaken, the
42:21officers uh fed you. Is that right? Yes.
42:24Uh downstairs in the cells? Yes. What
42:26did they feed you?
42:28Sandwich and juice. A sandwich and a
42:30juice. Okay. Was uh What was that?
42:36I didn't have access to the time at the
42:39time I was uh fed. Okay. Uh are you
42:42hungry? No. Okay. Did you have anything
42:44else to eat today?
42:47I ate before uh I was arrested. Okay.
42:50And and and what what time was that? I
42:53don't recall. Okay. Do you remember what
42:55you ate?
42:56I don't recall. Okay. All right. Uh if
42:59if you're hungry at all at any point in
43:01time, you just let me know. Okay. If you
43:04need to borrow the washroom, you just
43:05let me know. Okay. I'm going to leave
43:08that up to you to tell me. Okay. Because
43:09I'm not going to know if you're hungry
43:10or not. I'm not going to know if you
43:11need to go to the washroom. So, I'm
43:12going to rely on you to tell me that. Is
43:14that cool? Yes. All right. Um how much
43:17sleep did you have last night?
43:21About eight hours. About eight hours.
43:22And how did you sleep?
43:24I slept well. You slept well. And And
43:26where where did you sleep?
43:29Was it your home? I uh decl I do not
43:32wish to answer that. Okay. All right. Uh
43:34nevertheless, you slept well. Okay. Um I
43:36want to ask you something, Alec, and
43:38this is important. Uh are you on any
43:40kind of medication right now? No. Okay.
43:42So, do you take any what I mean by
43:44medication? Do you take anything
43:46prescribed for any physical injuries or
43:49ailments of any type?
43:52I don't wish to answer that. Okay. Uh
43:55what about medication for psychological
43:57issues? I don't wish to answer that.
43:59Okay.
44:01Um has a doctor
44:05uh
44:06um have you seen a doctor uh recently
44:09with respect to any medical issues that
44:11I should be concerned about? I don't
44:12wish to answer that. Okay. What about
44:15psychological issues? I don't wish to
44:17answer that.
44:19Okay, Alec, can I ask you this um
44:23because it's important and and I'm
44:25saying this because
44:27um I think I know the answer, but uh am
44:31I wrong to understand that uh in high
44:35school you were uh identified as someone
44:40with special needs?
44:44I don't wish to answer that. Okay. But
44:46you did go to Thornley Secondary, didn't
44:48you? Correct. Yeah. Okay. And you
44:51graduated from Thornley, is that right?
44:52Yes. Okay. And then following that, my
44:55understanding is you went to Senica,
44:56correct? And you were um uh you're just
44:59finishing up, if I'm not mistaken,
45:01you're just finishing up your your your
45:02course. Yes. Yeah. And that's uh uh the
45:06center for development of open
45:08technology, CO.
45:11No, it's uh Senica at York. Yeah, I
45:15realize your program the program you're
45:17taking isn't it called center for
45:19No, that was actually something else.
45:22Oh, okay. All right. What are you
45:23taking? What are you taking at Senica?
45:25Bachelor of software development
45:27program. Oh. Oh, so you're taking a
45:29degree. Yes. So Senica offers a degree
45:32in in software programming. Yes. And and
45:35that's something that you uh were
45:37aspiring to do. I understand you wanted
45:39to become a computer a software
45:42developer or designer or software
45:44developer right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And a
45:46team leader. Is that not right? Yes. Is
45:49that the that's that's that's what you
45:50were aspiring to to to to do? Yes. Okay.
45:54And um as far as work, uh my
45:56understanding is you're not working
45:57right now. I don't wish to answer that.
46:00Okay. All right. Um is it fair to say
46:03that you you you had some employment
46:05lined up with a company called Seridan?
46:07Saturday computers. I don't wish to
46:10answer that. Oh, okay. All right.
46:14Um I I I I I do know that you live at
46:17home, though. And I do know that you
46:19have a a mom and a dad, right? Um I
46:24believe your dad, and correct me if I'm
46:26wrong, because uh I probably I'm not
46:28pronouncing it right, but his name is uh
46:29Vahi.
46:31I don't wish dads. Yeah. Okay. Um, and
46:34your mom's Sona and your you got an
46:36older brother named Peg and uh I think
46:40he's what probably 28 if I'm not
46:42mistaken.
46:44Hey, I don't wish to answer that.
46:47Okay. How is how are things at home?
46:51Good. With you and your family? Are you
46:54close to your mom and dad? Yes. Yeah.
46:56And what about your relationship with
46:57your brother?
46:59It's good. It's good.
47:02Um, I understand you were born in
47:04Canada.
47:05Yes. Yeah. And your uh your parents
47:08immigrated to Canada
47:11um some time ago. Um and they're
47:14originally from Iraq. Is that right? I
47:16do not wish to uh confirm or deny that.
47:19Okay. All right. Okay. I just say that
47:21because um I've spoken to your dad and
47:25u um he's worried about you. I'll tell
47:29you that. Okay.
47:32Um, and I ask you these questions and
47:35and I'm not trying to intimidate. I'm
47:36not trying to scare you, okay? Um, the
47:40reason why I ask these questions is
47:41because it's important that I get to
47:43know you better. All right? Um, we just
47:46met for the very first time and uh, you
47:49don't know me. Am I
47:51right? Crept, right? and uh uh I I've
47:56never met you before, but I know I do
47:58know a great a great deal about you. And
48:01um it's important I get to know you
48:03better. And the reason why I say that is
48:06because um this is an important issue
48:10that that that brings you here today.
48:12Okay? It's very
48:14serious and
48:16um I think I would be neglectful if I
48:22didn't at least try and understand who
48:25you are. That's all I'm trying to do.
48:28You understand? Yes. Does that make
48:30sense? Yes. Okay. Do you feel
48:33intimidated right now? Are you scared or
48:35anything like that? No. Okay. Uh will
48:38you let me know if if if you if that
48:40ever happens? I will let you know. Okay.
48:42All right. If there's anything I say
48:43that is, you know, is offensive or that
48:47you find offensive or, you know, if
48:49there's anything I say that you don't
48:51like, will you let me know? Yes. Okay.
48:54The reason why I said it because I don't
48:55want to offend. That's not why I'm here.
48:57Okay.
48:58Um, I do know this. My understanding is
49:01um you were in a a special needs class
49:04in in high school. Okay. Uh it was a
49:07small uh classroom uh specifically
49:10designed for uh people with um special
49:14needs. Um my understanding is uh that
49:17there were a number of students in that
49:19class who excelled very well in certain
49:22areas uh and didn't do uh very well or
49:26or were uh were
49:29um they performed poorly in other areas.
49:33So there were, you know, there was a a
49:36mixture of individuals in the class and
49:39um and the idea behind being placed in
49:41the special needs class was to focus on
49:44on the areas where they they didn't
49:46perform as well. Um, and uh, in my in my
49:53conversation with you, in my experience
49:54with uh, with with people with special
49:57needs, uh, because I've been doing this
49:58a long time, and I have actually family
50:00members who, uh, you know, have, uh, you
50:03know, special
50:04needs because of a variety of different
50:07reasons. um I can recognize uh um people
50:12who
50:14um you know who uh who have special
50:17needs and uh so the reason why I'm
50:19saying that is because I want to make
50:21sure you understand what I'm saying.
50:23Okay? Um I don't want to be saying
50:26something that is going to confuse you
50:28or make you feel uncomfortable
50:30uh or or make you feel
50:32scared. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay.
50:39Um,
50:41now my understanding is your dad's not
50:44working. He used to work for Rogers, but
50:46he's he's he's out of work right now,
50:50but he's he's he's looking for he's
50:51looking for work. Is that right? I do
50:55not wish to confirm or deny that. Okay.
50:57Uh, your mom works for uh Computen.
51:01That's a computer computer company.
51:08I uh do not wish to answer that. Okay.
51:11All right.
51:16Are you are you in any kind of
51:17relationship right now with
51:20um with a with an intimate partner? I
51:23mean, do you have a girlfriend or a I do
51:25not wish to answer that. No. Okay. All
51:28right.
51:29Um what about friends? Do you have a a
51:33group of friends that you typically hang
51:34around with? I do not know which to
51:36answer that. You don't wish to answer
51:37that? If I was to
51:40say Jeffrey Juan, would you know who I'm
51:42talking about?
51:45I don't recall that name. Jeffrey Juan
51:47W.
51:49I don't recall. You don't? Okay. What
51:50about uh Brendan Lee? Uh Lavine?
51:55I don't recall.
51:57Okay. All right.
51:59Um, do you know a fellow by the name of
52:01um, Michael White?
52:04I don't know which to answer that.
52:07Okay. What about a Michael uh,
52:12uh, Transer?
52:16Sorry. Yeah. Tanzer. Michael Tanzer. Do
52:19you know Michael Tanzer? I don't wish to
52:21answer that. We don't.
52:23Okay. Do you have a Facebook account?
52:28Yes. EJ way. Yeah.
52:30Um is it am I correct to to to suggest
52:34that the the name of your account your
52:36account profile is your name?
52:40What I will say that it is uh correct to
52:43assume that most people have a Facebook
52:45account with the same name as their real
52:48name. Right. Right. Right. And
52:51um do you have any other online social
52:54media accounts?
52:56That is my only online social media
52:59account. Okay. So, you know what I mean
53:00by social media? I'm talking about like
53:01Facebook, Twitter, etc. Yeah. Instagram,
53:04um Snapchat,
53:07um uh what are some of the other ones?
53:10I'm trying to think. I'm I'm old. I'm 50
53:1251 years old, so I I can't even You
53:15young guys have uh
53:17all the all the all the uh the uh the
53:22different
53:23technological ways of communicating.
53:25What are what are the other ones?
53:27Facebook, Instagram. Uh I'm just
53:29thinking of what my kids use. Twitter.
53:31Twitter. Yeah. Okay. I knew that one. Uh
53:34Snapchat. FaceTime. FaceTime. Do you
53:37need an account for that? I've actually
53:39never used that before. FaceTime. It's
53:41like FaceTime is like Skype though,
53:42isn't it? I think it's easier a more
53:46convenient way of using Skype, right?
53:48Because you communicate over Facebook,
53:50but it's a it's a video form of
53:52communication. Correct. I actually
53:54didn't know that because I've just heard
53:56of the name. Oh, okay. I because I've
53:58actually used it, but this is going to
54:00sound strange. I've used it, but I don't
54:01know how I've used it. People have
54:03actually called me on FaceTime and I've
54:05been on my uh my um I have a little iPad
54:09and then all of a sudden I'm I'm talking
54:10to somebody and I can see them and they
54:12can see me. So, I uh one day you're
54:15going to get old and you're going to
54:17realize what I'm going through right now
54:18because it's hard. It's hard as a as a
54:2151-y old guy to try and keep up with the
54:23technology and by the time you got from
54:24my age, technology is going to be out of
54:27control. But you're a you're a bit of a
54:29computer guy. You like computers, eh?
54:30You're into software, programming, all
54:32that kind of stuff. Have you got a
54:33particular
54:35um area of expertise? Like do you do you
54:38do you write code or what do you do? I
54:40don't wish to answer that. You don't
54:41wish to tell me what you what you like
54:43to do and what you don't like to do as
54:44far as uh No, I don't What? Okay. Well,
54:47what going back to the uh social media
54:49accounts, do you I mean, my
54:51understanding is you have a um a
54:52LinkedIn account.
54:54Yes. Yeah. Okay. But you're not you're
54:56not you're not active on
54:59LinkedIn. Do you know what I mean by
55:01that? I I I don't sign in uh daily.
55:05Right. Right. Right. Right. And the
55:07information you have on LinkedIn's
55:09fairly limited. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And uh
55:14my understanding is your Facebook
55:17account is your your activity on
55:20Facebook is kind of sporadic. Sometimes
55:21you're on and then you go off and then
55:23you go back on and close down your
55:25account and you then you open it back
55:28up. Why? Why? Why is that?
55:32I don't wish to answer that. Am I right
55:34to to assume that you've closed your
55:36Facebook down account down in the past?
55:41I may have done it once. Yeah. Oh, okay.
55:43All right. All right. When you when did
55:44you close it down? Did you say when or
55:47why? No. When? When? I don't remember.
55:50It was quite a while ago. Oh, okay. And
55:52how long was it closed down for?
55:56I would say at least a year. Oh, okay.
55:58Okay. And then uh am I right to assume
56:00that you just recently opened it back up
56:02again? Yes. Yeah. Okay. When when when
56:05did you open it back up?
56:07I think about a month or two ago. about
56:09a month or two ago. Okay. And um how
56:12many friends do you have on Facebook?
56:15I don't remember the exact count. Okay.
56:18Are you active on Facebook?
56:22My uh my rate of sign in is
56:24inconsistent. Sometimes I might sign in
56:26for a couple of days, but then might not
56:28sign in again for another week or so.
56:30Oh, okay. Is there a reason for that?
56:35I just don't have a specific uh pattern
56:39when uh deciding to use Facebook. You
56:41know, I'm just thinking in terms of a
56:43routine like when I when I I actually
56:45use Facebook a lot. I'm
56:47surprised being as old as I am. Um but
56:50one of the reasons why I use Facebook is
56:51because it keeps me I don't post a lot
56:54of stuff on Facebook because I'm not
56:56that time. I'm kind of shy that way. I
56:58don't like to to tell people what I'm
57:01doing. Um, but I like looking at what
57:03other people are doing and uh I have u I
57:05don't have a lot of friends but I have a
57:07few and I and I kind of keep up to date
57:09with what they're doing and I watch and
57:10I I look and so as a kind of a as a
57:13routine I will I will I don't want to
57:16say daily maybe daily I go on to my
57:18Facebook and I check and but I don't
57:21post a great deal of information because
57:23I I for some reason I don't know in my
57:25mind I just don't like to to reveal what
57:28I'm doing. you when you say you're on
57:30Facebook, are what do you mean by that?
57:35I simply mean that
57:37I'm occasionally uh signing in to uh use
57:41it minimally. Okay. So, when you say
57:44using is that are you posting stuff on
57:46on your web on it could be posting or it
57:48could be uh private messaging uh another
57:52individual on Facebook. Oh, I see. Okay.
57:54And what kind of stuff do you typically
57:55post on your Facebook?
58:00There's no specific pattern as to the
58:02type of content I post.
58:05No, it's just random stuff depending on
58:07whatever you're thinking of the day or
58:11you could think of it like that. Mhm.
58:13And messaging are you what kind of
58:15conversations are you typically having
58:16on on messaging?
58:18I don't wish to answer that. Okay. All
58:20right.
58:22Um, am I to understand that you've
58:25you've had some military experience in
58:27the past?
58:30Yes. Yeah. Okay. Was it in the in
58:32Canada? I'm sorry. Yeah. And uh my dad
58:35was in the military. My dad was actually
58:36in the Navy. He um he joined when he was
58:3817 years old. And in fact, he was he
58:41wasn't 18. So he actually had to have
58:43his parents sign off to uh to uh to give
58:46him permission to join the Navy. But uh
58:49so in the military we have the air
58:51force, the the navy and the the army.
58:53Which which which which one were you
58:55part of? Army. The army. Okay. And where
58:57did you join? Here in Toronto. Yes. Oh,
59:00really? And what made you decide to do
59:01that?
59:02Uh I wanted to uh try something new. I
59:06wanted to see what it was like to join
59:08infantry. Really? Really? Have you have
59:11you thought about pursuing the military
59:13as a career?
59:15I had thought of it at the time that I
59:16had uh joined. Right. Right. Right.
59:18Right. Okay. And and were you thinking
59:20about doing like enlisting or were you
59:22thinking about being an officer and
59:24going through the the officer cadet
59:25program or what? I had enlisted. You'd
59:28enlisted. Oh, I see. So was in the army
59:30and what particular like were you what
59:33particular I know there's a number of
59:35different is it professions or a number
59:38of different trades? Yes. What
59:39particular trad? Oh, infantry. So you'd
59:42be if if called to task, you'd be the
59:45fellow on the front line. Yes. Charging
59:47to the enemy and Yes. Just uh getting
59:50your hands dirty at the pointy end of
59:52the stick. Okay. Is that uh is is Yeah.
59:55As per the trade description. Oh, okay.
59:57Right now. Right now. What? So
59:58specifically what so within the infantry
1:00:01did you have a particular skill that you
1:00:03wanted to develop or was it just I was
1:00:06interested in uh learning how to uh use
1:00:10uh weapons. Beautiful. Specifically uh
1:00:13large guns. So large guns is in in what?
1:00:17Like uh like such as assault rifles. Oh,
1:00:20okay. So you're not talking about
1:00:21howitzers and and uh cannons, right?
1:00:24you're talking about like yeah because
1:00:27those you can actually hold in your head
1:00:29right right so what type of weapons
1:00:30would the uh the military Canadian
1:00:32military be be training their their
1:00:34members in because you know what I play
1:00:36a lot of Call of Duty right have you
1:00:38ever played Call of Duty unfortunately
1:00:40that game isn't realistic um however uh
1:00:44I never unfortunately I never made it
1:00:46far enough in my basic training to uh
1:00:49use guns uh so I don't know what type of
1:00:52guns the uh uh military uses. Oh, okay.
1:00:56What makes you think I thought Call of
1:00:57Duty was I know that the scenarios
1:00:59aren't realistic, but like the weapons
1:01:01they use are realistic, aren't they? And
1:01:04uh and the camo and and the uniforms and
1:01:06stuff. Unfortunately, um the the
1:01:08logistics of how the uh weapons are
1:01:10fired, right? Uh are not realistic in
1:01:14real life. For example, uh there's a lot
1:01:16of recoil when firing a assault rifle.
1:01:20Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I
1:01:22imagine. And you're not getting much
1:01:23recoil on your, you know, your your
1:01:26computer, whatever. Definitely not the
1:01:28little handheld console you're using. Of
1:01:30course, it vibrates a little bit, but
1:01:32that
1:01:34you do you play Call of Duty? I've
1:01:36played it uh in the past. Yeah, I enjoy
1:01:39that. I like that. And uh there's
1:01:40another one I I really enjoy was
1:01:42um um Honor, Badge of Honor. I've
1:01:46actually never played that to be honest.
1:01:48That was actually better. That's better
1:01:49than the Call of Duty. Better badge of
1:01:51Honor. It's made it's uh I think Call of
1:01:54Duty is is Microsoft if I'm not
1:01:57mistaken. I can't I don't know. And but
1:01:58this was another company but Call of
1:02:00Duty is made by Activision. Activision.
1:02:02Okay. Right. Uh now Yeah. So Badge of
1:02:06Honor is something else. It's it's
1:02:07another company. I don't know what it
1:02:09is. But uh do you do you do you find
1:02:11yourself play do you play a lot of a lot
1:02:12of video games? Kind of like you 25
1:02:13years old. Imagine you're Yeah, I
1:02:15actually I actually like playing video
1:02:16games, especially the uh violent ones.
1:02:18The violent ones. Yeah. Ju I just like
1:02:20to uh let out all my urges into the TV.
1:02:23That's why they're there, right? What
1:02:24about uh what other ones do you play? I
1:02:27played Halo a lot in the past. Okay. All
1:02:29right. That's more of a sci-fi kind of
1:02:31futuristic stuff. It's not I wouldn't
1:02:33say Halo's terribly violent. You're
1:02:35killing Martians and things like that.
1:02:37At least you're not killing other
1:02:38humans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you play um
1:02:41uh Grand Theft Auto? I played it a
1:02:44couple of times uh on someone else's
1:02:46Xbox. I don't actually own I've never
1:02:48actually owned any copies of Grand Theft
1:02:50Auto.
1:02:51So, as far
1:02:53as being a gamer, how would you classify
1:02:55yourself? Are you like a big I would
1:02:57classify myself as a hardcore gamer?
1:02:59Hardcore gamer. So, in terms of hours
1:03:01spent during the day playing video
1:03:03games, how often would you how many
1:03:04hours would you spend? I would say an
1:03:05average of uh five hours per day. Oh,
1:03:09okay. All right. Okay. That's that seems
1:03:10reasonable. That seems your age. I'd
1:03:11probably do this even given even given
1:03:13my course loads. Okay. And so that's
1:03:15with school. Yes. So, okay. So, and you
1:03:18were full-time. Yes. Yeah. And and
1:03:20you're in a computer degree program,
1:03:22right? Which is, I imagine, intense.
1:03:25Yes. Like hard work. Yes. Right. Have
1:03:27you always been and I'm I'm saying this
1:03:31because I I've got a uh I've got a
1:03:33nephew of mine who's actually uh in BC
1:03:36right now at the University of Victoria
1:03:37and he's in a uh computer engineering
1:03:40program. So, I don't know if computer
1:03:41engineering is the same or not. There's
1:03:43an overlap, but it's not the same thing
1:03:45as computer programming. It's not. Okay.
1:03:47Okay. Um, but his course load is intense
1:03:50and it's it's it's highly uh uh
1:03:53mathematical. A lot of math involved, a
1:03:56lot of equations, a lot of problem
1:03:57solving. I never actually had to do that
1:04:00much math in my program. It was mostly a
1:04:03coding. Coding. Okay. So, you write a
1:04:04lot of code? Yes. Now, do you write what
1:04:07what type of language do you write?
1:04:10I've used uh C, C++, C++, Java and Java
1:04:13would be web based. Java is really for
1:04:16for writing code for websites. Java is
1:04:20more generic. Yeah. Okay. But C++ is the
1:04:23is the the more popular coding
1:04:26for computer programs. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
1:04:29Okay. And uh how what made you decide to
1:04:31get interested in that?
1:04:34Well, I was kind of a nerd in high
1:04:36school and I took And I took a a course
1:04:41uh on uh computer programming in uh I
1:04:44took one course that was programming in
1:04:45high school. And after that I decided I
1:04:47really liked coding and I wanted to uh
1:04:50uh sign up for a um programming a
1:04:54program in uh college. Really? And then
1:04:57you just carried it through and you got
1:04:58into Senica and and things were good.
1:05:00Now was it difficult getting into
1:05:01Senica? Did you obviously I had to the
1:05:05only difficult part was ensuring that I
1:05:07had high grades right at near the end of
1:05:09high school. Right. Right. Right. Right.
1:05:10So did you finish grade 12 or did you go
1:05:13on to grade 13? I'm trying to think. I
1:05:15finished grade 12. Okay. They didn't
1:05:16have grade 13 when you No, they've
1:05:18already they already discontinued that
1:05:20long uh before I started high school.
1:05:21That's what I thought. Yeah, that's what
1:05:22I thought. Because that's because when I
1:05:24when I first I'm from BC. I grew up out
1:05:26west in Victoria. I don't know if you
1:05:28have you ever traveled the country? I
1:05:30have never uh been to uh BC before.
1:05:33Never been to BC. Have you been anywhere
1:05:34else in in Canada? I've been to uh
1:05:37Quebec. You've been to Quebec to to
1:05:39visit? Yes. Okay. But have you been you
1:05:40haven't you traveled anywhere else? No.
1:05:42Okay. Well, yeah. BC is uh in BC uh this
1:05:46is back in 1984 when I graduated. Uh and
1:05:49it's still to this day they only have
1:05:51grade 12. But when I moved out here when
1:05:53I was 19 20 years old, they had is what
1:05:56they call it OAC? they could hold a
1:05:58which was a grade 13 which was like a a
1:06:01university prep year. So if you were
1:06:02going to go on to university or college
1:06:04you take grade 13 but then they
1:06:06discontinued that but I can't remember I
1:06:08remember exactly when they did that. So
1:06:10I assume that maybe perhaps you were
1:06:12still part of that. So you you get into
1:06:15Synica and it's a how how many is it a
1:06:17two-year program? Four year program
1:06:21four. So, were you in your fourth year?
1:06:26The this semester was supposed to be my
1:06:28final semester. Final semester? Yes. And
1:06:30you'd be graduating with a bachelor of
1:06:33science? Bachelor of software
1:06:35development. Bachelor of Software
1:06:37Development. Did you
1:06:39have did you have tests or anything to
1:06:41complete or I already completed
1:06:44everything? So, you you basically you
1:06:46finished? Yes. So, what was your last
1:06:48day?
1:06:51My last day of classes was uh last
1:06:54Wednesday. Last Wednesday. And so when
1:06:58would your when would you when would you
1:07:01be told that you would you you had
1:07:04graduated? Like when would your
1:07:05graduation date be? I would have uh
1:07:07found out my final grades this Saturday.
1:07:09This Saturday? Yes. Okay. So, were you
1:07:11required to do anything between now and
1:07:13Saturday? No. So, that's it. You're
1:07:15finished. Yes. Wow. Congratulations.
1:07:18Thank you. Good for you. And that's No,
1:07:19that's quite an achievement. Yeah. you
1:07:20got a a a bachelor of science. That's a
1:07:22heck of a lot more than what I got. I'll
1:07:23tell you that. I went to university and
1:07:25I I only I only took uh well, I got a
1:07:28diploma in business administration. Then
1:07:30I did two years in uh taking finance,
1:07:33but I never completed it. I never
1:07:34finished my university. I wish I had,
1:07:36but I just was a lot of work. I couldn't
1:07:39do it. It was it was too much. Well,
1:07:41that's good. Wow. That's uh that's quite
1:07:43an achievement. Have you
1:07:45um
1:07:47so but you hadn't lined anything up as
1:07:50far as a
1:07:51job like work? I don't wish to answer
1:07:53that. Okay. All right. Okay. I
1:07:54understand. I understand.
1:07:58Um my understanding is you're living at
1:08:00home. You don't live on your
1:08:03own. Am I right? I don't wish to. I
1:08:05should. Okay. Uh but you have a good
1:08:07relationship with your mom and dad. Yes.
1:08:09Yeah. And has your relationship always
1:08:11been good with your mom and dad? Yes.
1:08:13Okay. And have they been supportive and
1:08:15loving throughout your life? Yes. And um
1:08:18were there any difficulties in your life
1:08:20growing up with your mom and dad? No.
1:08:22No. Uh what about with school? Were the
1:08:25difficulties with uh with with school
1:08:27growing up? No. No. Uh and so when I
1:08:30talk about that, I'm talking about like
1:08:31the school curriculum, you know, the you
1:08:34know, going to school, learning and and
1:08:36and uh you know, completing your
1:08:38assignments and things like that. Were
1:08:39there any issues? No. Okay. What about
1:08:42the students?
1:08:44Uh, no, I never had any issues. Never
1:08:46had any issue with any of the students
1:08:47or anything like that? No. Um, uh, and I
1:08:51say this, uh, because you know,
1:08:53sometimes these things are important.
1:08:54Uh, were you,
1:08:56um, how were you
1:08:58treated by the other students?
1:09:01I was treated well. You treated well.
1:09:03Okay.
1:09:05Um, did you have any difficulties with
1:09:08any particular group of students? No.
1:09:11No. Uh, what about difficulties with uh
1:09:15uh girls in particular? No. No. No. No
1:09:19difficulties with girls at all? No. No,
1:09:21not at all. How do you feel about uh
1:09:25girls in general?
1:09:27I am attracted to them. Oh, you are?
1:09:29Okay. Okay. So, you're heterosexual?
1:09:31Yes. Would it be fair to say that? Okay.
1:09:33That's that's important. Um, have you
1:09:36ever had a relationship with a with a
1:09:38female? I don't wish to answer that.
1:09:39Okay. All right.
1:09:44Um, in terms of females, I mean females
1:09:47and women because you're 25, you're a
1:09:49young man, right? We'll call them women.
1:09:51Um, in terms of
1:09:53your feelings towards women in general,
1:09:58uh, how would you describe that?
1:10:03I would say that sometimes I am a bit
1:10:05upset that they choose to uh date uh
1:10:09obnoxious men instead of uh gentlemen.
1:10:13Yeah. Yeah.
1:10:15So I I I um I have a um well I got
1:10:18involved in that situation. I'll tell
1:10:19you about later, but um I I
1:10:23um so my understanding is um you you
1:10:27have some problems with women who date
1:10:29obnoxious men. Yes. And these guys, I'm
1:10:31thinking you're you're talking about the
1:10:32fellows who are loud uh arrogant um uh
1:10:38generally uh um outgoing and popular
1:10:43with girls. Yes. Is that what you're
1:10:45talking about? Yes. Okay.
1:10:48Um and you have a problem with the women
1:10:50that date these fellas. Yes. Why is it
1:10:52that you have a problem with with the
1:10:53women? because I feel that uh it's
1:10:57illogical to be uh dating such men when
1:11:00they could be dating gentlemen instead.
1:11:03Right. Right. Right. That makes sense. I
1:11:05mean uh and I've seen that because I
1:11:06grown up and I'll tell you one of the
1:11:08issues that I had as a kid growing up
1:11:10because I was u this is going to you
1:11:12might not believe me but believe I was I
1:11:14wasn't a very big kid growing up. I was
1:11:16actually very very small. Uh and it took
1:11:18me a long time to to to to grow. And uh
1:11:23so as a result uh the you know I I was
1:11:27kind of ostracized. You know what I mean
1:11:28by ostracized? I was kind of cast aside.
1:11:30Cast aside. Yeah. Yeah. And uh or uh I
1:11:33left out like I wouldn't get picked for
1:11:35teams you know or anything like that.
1:11:36You know I was always kind of the last
1:11:38guy. You ever see those uh those uh you
1:11:41know those television shows where you
1:11:43know all the kids are lined up and
1:11:44they're getting picked for you know the
1:11:46teams and there's always one guy left
1:11:48out at the end. Yeah. That that was me.
1:11:50I was that was I was that guy. And uh
1:11:52and and I never I was never uh very
1:11:55popular with uh women, girls in in in
1:11:58school. And uh and that kind of actually
1:12:02went on through uh to early part of my
1:12:04my my adulthood until I started, you
1:12:07know, getting taller and uh maturing,
1:12:10right? But uh I understand exactly what
1:12:11you meant because I was as a kid growing
1:12:13up, I was um you know, I mean, I was
1:12:16like any other kid, any other young man,
1:12:18right? you would look at uh uh
1:12:20attractive girls and I knew I was
1:12:24probably just as smart, if not smarter
1:12:26than some of the clowns they were
1:12:28dating, but because for whatever reason
1:12:30I didn't have what it took, they
1:12:32wouldn't, you know, they wouldn't date
1:12:34me because I think because I was short,
1:12:36they wouldn't date me and they'd end up
1:12:37dating, you know, the tall
1:12:39jocks and the other, you know, the
1:12:40good-looking fellows. Is that what
1:12:42you're talking about? Yes. Yeah. Then
1:12:44Yeah. Then you kind of resent these
1:12:45girls, right? Yeah. Because you know
1:12:48that's kind of a
1:12:49superficial way of deciding you know who
1:12:53it is you're because height is an unfair
1:12:55you can't control your height. Right.
1:12:57Exactly. Right. Right. Right. Right.
1:12:58Right. What other things can't you
1:13:00control?
1:13:03You can't control uh your looks either.
1:13:07Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's a good
1:13:09point. Although you're not a bad looking
1:13:10guy. Thank you. No you are. You're a
1:13:12good-look guy. You keep yourself well
1:13:14and you're good. You're fit. You know
1:13:15you're tall. Yeah. Um what other things
1:13:18can you control?
1:13:22I'm unaware. I'm I'm not aware of
1:13:24anything else you can't control. Uh what
1:13:26about um like phys physical
1:13:28disabilities, right? Obviously, if you
1:13:29were blind or you know, unfortunately,
1:13:32you can't control that. Yeah, you can't
1:13:33control that. That's what I mean. So,
1:13:34these are things you can't control or um
1:13:37you know, other disabilities. you know,
1:13:39if you're mentally handicapped or if you
1:13:41uh you you know, you're you have an
1:13:43amputee or you know, there's there's
1:13:46other other things and I and I and so so
1:13:47does that would would you include that
1:13:49in those those issues that you can't
1:13:51control? Yes. And so uh so how long have
1:13:55you had this
1:13:56um this feeling towards
1:13:59uh women who are attracted
1:14:02to, you know, this particular type of
1:14:04guy? Ever since I uh started uh college.
1:14:08Ever since you started college.
1:14:10Okay. Did it did was it was it something
1:14:13that occurred as a result of a single
1:14:16incident? Like did was there one
1:14:18particular moment in your life where it
1:14:21sort of struck home this was a problem
1:14:23or was it just a
1:14:25on Halloween of 2013 I was attending a
1:14:29house party and I uh walked in and
1:14:33attempted to uh socialize with some uh
1:14:36girls. Uh however they all laughed at me
1:14:40and uh held the arms of the uh big guys
1:14:43instead.
1:14:46Really? Yeah.
1:14:50Well, that's kind of
1:14:52rude. And how did that make you feel? I
1:14:55felt uh very angry. Yeah. That they
1:14:58would cuz I considered myself a supreme
1:15:01gentleman. I was angry that they would
1:15:03um give their love and affection to
1:15:05obnoxious boos. Really? Really.
1:15:11And so it was at that particular moment
1:15:13that was sort of the defining moment
1:15:14that made you think that you know this
1:15:16is this is wrong and you know these
1:15:18people are yes are unfairly treating you
1:15:22in the way that they were. Yes. Yeah.
1:15:24Yeah. That makes sense. I appreciate you
1:15:25telling me that that uh that says a lot.
1:15:28And
1:15:29um so so from that point on what uh what
1:15:33what what did you start doing?
1:15:37I uh started thinking that it's unfair
1:15:40that
1:15:42um certain uh guys will not get any uh
1:15:45love and affection from girls.
1:15:48Okay. And what like what what do you
1:15:52mean by certain guys such as me that are
1:15:55that are very nice and uh gentlemanly?
1:15:58Right. Right. Right. Are there other
1:15:59guys? Did you find other guys are in the
1:16:02same there? I know of several other guys
1:16:05over the internet who uh feel the same
1:16:07way, but I know they are I would
1:16:10consider them too cowardly to uh act on
1:16:13their anger.
1:16:15Oh, okay. And so on the internet, what
1:16:17where what are you talking about in
1:16:18terms of uh specifically uh certain
1:16:20boards on uh 4chan? Oh, okay. 4chan. I'm
1:16:23familiar with 4chan. So that's um such
1:16:25as R9K and uh Pool. Okay. So describe
1:16:294chan to me. What is what what what is
1:16:324chan specifically? It's an image board
1:16:34uh where uh people uh can anonymously
1:16:38make any post they want. Mhm. Uh the the
1:16:41three boards that I have
1:16:43uh frequented are B which is the random
1:16:47board. Okay. Yeah. P or PO stands for
1:16:51politically uh incorrect. Okay. And uh
1:16:54R9K which uh is basically means R9000.
1:16:58It's uh in effect, like they're saying,
1:17:01we're all robots. Anyone who uh messages
1:17:04on that board. Okay. So, those are the
1:17:07three boards that you you you you go to.
1:17:09Yes. To to uh Is it fair to say you
1:17:12chat? Yes. You chat. So, you chat with
1:17:14other similar-minded people. Yes. Right.
1:17:16So, 4chan is a website. And within
1:17:194chan, there are these messaging boards.
1:17:22Yes. And they're individual boards
1:17:24specific to like-minded people. Yes. And
1:17:27how many boards would there be in total
1:17:28on 4chan? There are about 50 different
1:17:31boards on 4chan, but but most of them
1:17:33are actually uh unrelated to the uh to
1:17:38be 19 or or or pulled. Therefore, I
1:17:41don't bother going on them. Right.
1:17:43Right. Because they because uh in fact,
1:17:45if you try if I try to talk about topics
1:17:47that I was talking about on those other
1:17:49boards, my post would get deleted. Oh,
1:17:51okay. All right. So, there's moderators.
1:17:53Yes. uh who who monitor the the
1:17:56conversations and they you know they
1:17:57they kind of police the the
1:17:59conversations and if you're not part of
1:18:01the group conversation they they they
1:18:03kick you out. Yes. Okay, that makes
1:18:05sense. So when did you first started
1:18:06going on to 4chan?
1:18:09Since uh 2014. Oh, okay. All right. And
1:18:12how did you learn about 4chan?
1:18:14Uh I was informed about it uh by a
1:18:17friend at college. Oh, okay. All right.
1:18:20And was he on it as well or? Yes. Okay.
1:18:22What's his name? I don't wish to answer.
1:18:26Okay, I understand. But nevertheless,
1:18:27it's a it's a friend who's on 4chan. Was
1:18:29he in the same uh was he in the same uh
1:18:33chat rooms?
1:18:35Yes. Okay. All right. And so you would
1:18:37you have conversation with him in those
1:18:38chat rooms? Yes. Okay. All right. And so
1:18:41how many other people would be in the in
1:18:43these in these three particular chat
1:18:45rooms you talked about?
1:18:48It doesn't actually tell you how many
1:18:50are in there at once because it doesn't
1:18:53as a software. It's not actually a chat
1:18:55room. It's more like a message board
1:18:57where anyone can post it anytime by
1:18:59simply going to the thread, but they
1:19:01don't have to stay there. Oh, I see. So,
1:19:03it's not live. It's not live chat. No,
1:19:05it's a it's a thread. So, when you say
1:19:07it's a thread, it's a it's essentially
1:19:08like a forum, right? So you make a
1:19:10statement and then somebody will uh
1:19:12answer or they will reply to that your
1:19:14statement and then you've got or they
1:19:16might reply to the original poster or
1:19:20what is known as OP. Right. Okay. I see.
1:19:22Okay. Okay. And so the the the the
1:19:24general content of these
1:19:27three forums. Is it am I using the right
1:19:30word? Forum or or image board. Image
1:19:32board. So the what what's the general uh
1:19:37uh
1:19:39uh the topic within these message
1:19:42boards? Well on B the uh or random the
1:19:47general topic is random. It's literally
1:19:50any random uh um topic on R9K it's they
1:19:56uh call us space robots. Okay. Uh the
1:19:59topic is usually uh frustrations at an
1:20:02inability to lose one's virginity
1:20:04specifically for young males. Okay. Uh
1:20:07poll which is politically incorrect is
1:20:10the general topic is basically political
1:20:13discussions with an alt-right bias.
1:20:16Political discussions with an alt-right.
1:20:18So you're you're you're
1:20:20ultra-conservative
1:20:21or you're like a you know in the
1:20:23American uh definition would be you'd be
1:20:26ultra republican. Yes. Okay. So, you
1:20:28what would your what would your
1:20:30political views be in the alt-right
1:20:33uh uh message board? I actually don't
1:20:37have any political views. I only uh the
1:20:40only reason I have talked with them was
1:20:42just because I enjoyed their style of
1:20:45conversation. Okay. What was the style
1:20:47of conversation?
1:20:50Uh it was very uh blunt and honest. So,
1:20:53and what would it be? What would it
1:20:54typically focus around or what would the
1:20:56what would the tip the typical
1:20:57conversations contain?
1:21:00Uh, red pill truths about uh why uh
1:21:04women uh choose to date uh obnoxious
1:21:07men. Date the Chads. The Chads of this
1:21:10world. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, the
1:21:12Stacy's going for the Chads. Exactly.
1:21:13The Stacy's are the Yeah. The you know
1:21:16the the dizzy dumb girls dating the the
1:21:20goofy you know jocks. Yeah. Right.
1:21:22Right. Right. So you call them Stacies
1:21:23and Chads. I've heard that term before.
1:21:26Uh and so that's in the alt-right. Yes.
1:21:28That conversation takes place in the
1:21:29alt-right as well. Yes. Does do other
1:21:31things take place in the alt-right form
1:21:34or red pill? Uh some some um alt-right
1:21:39members consider them to themselves to
1:21:41be redpilled. What does that mean? Is
1:21:44that like a matrix uh reference?
1:21:46Actually, it is in fact that term was
1:21:49actually in fact um uh came up as a
1:21:52reference to matrix taking the red. You
1:21:54can either take the red pill or you can
1:21:56take the blue pill, right? And some of
1:21:58them someight members even consider them
1:22:00to be to be a black pill which in in
1:22:03essence means they're a migtau men going
1:22:06their own way. Oh, okay. All right.
1:22:08Okay. All right. Okay. You're right.
1:22:11Yep. Okay. So, and so the so the
1:22:13conversations are surrounding
1:22:16uh so in those three message boards,
1:22:18they're all basically this or maybe I
1:22:20shouldn't say all three, but in the two
1:22:22message boards, the alt-right and the
1:22:25R9K R9K there and we call ourselves
1:22:27space robots there. Space robots, but
1:22:29the conversations tend to be focused
1:22:30around um uh fellas who have
1:22:35uh been unable to lose their virginity
1:22:39due to the Stacies of this world in the
1:22:40chats. Yes. Right. And uh I I've done a
1:22:44little bit of um uh reading and I know a
1:22:46little bit about um involuntary
1:22:49uh cacy celibacy, right? So being
1:22:53celibate, involuntarily celibate. What
1:22:55does that mean? That means an celibacy
1:22:58means uh uh someone who would never
1:23:02perform has a sexual intercourse. Uh
1:23:05involuntary celibacy means this wasn't
1:23:07your choice. you essentially are uh have
1:23:11been thrown into true forced loneliness
1:23:13and you're unable to lose your
1:23:15virginity. This is especially uh painful
1:23:19for uh young males. Right. Right. Right.
1:23:22That makes sense. And there's other are
1:23:23there not other websites that cater to
1:23:26this group of people as well? Forever
1:23:29alone. Have you ever heard of them? I
1:23:31have heard of the Forever Alone uh
1:23:33subreddit and subreddit. Subreddit. Have
1:23:35you you've heard of those? Okay. Okay.
1:23:37And would it is it fair to say Forever
1:23:39Alone is a is a is a forum within
1:23:42subreddit?
1:23:44It is a subreddit. That's the definition
1:23:46of subreddit is basically a section of
1:23:48Reddit. Right. Right. Right. Yes.
1:23:50Exactly. Right. So it would be like the
1:23:514chan that they kind of in a way. Yeah.
1:23:54Okay. All right. Are you on Forever
1:23:56Alone? Yes. You're on that as well? Yes.
1:23:59Okay. What other What other sites are
1:24:00you on?
1:24:02I don't I can't uh recall other sites
1:24:04off the bat at the moment. What's your
1:24:06what's your username in uh Forever
1:24:08Alone? I don't wish to answer that.
1:24:10Okay. Well, what about 4chan? There is
1:24:12no username because you're always
1:24:14anonymous. You don't register on 4chan.
1:24:16Well, and that's what makes 4chan
1:24:18popular. Yeah. Because it makes it very
1:24:20easy and you can uh hide behind a
1:24:22computer screen. Right. Right. Right.
1:24:23Right. Okay. And so when you're on the
1:24:25internet, where are you typically when
1:24:26you're when you're accessing these
1:24:27websites? Are you at home? Yes. Yeah.
1:24:30Okay. And have you got a computer at
1:24:31home? You're obviously you do. Yes.
1:24:33Okay. Um uh do you ever access them with
1:24:37any other type of device?
1:24:40Yes, I have accessed them uh from a
1:24:42school before from school computers. And
1:24:44where where's that at Senica? Yes. And
1:24:46and what department?
1:24:49Um in within the school library. That's
1:24:52common to all the students. Oh, I see.
1:24:54Do you have one particular computer that
1:24:56you go to? I I've always gone to the
1:24:59computer at the uh northeast corner of
1:25:01the library just as a because I'm a
1:25:04person of habit. Right. Right. Okay. And
1:25:07uh uh is there a number on that computer
1:25:10or anything like that? No, but I'm
1:25:11always gravitated to the exact same
1:25:13spot. I'm I'm able to I just
1:25:16instinctually know this is exactly where
1:25:18I've always sat every time. Right.
1:25:20Right. Right. What type of computer is
1:25:21that? Uh Windows 10. No, I mean in terms
1:25:25of the uh the hardware, what is the make
1:25:27of the hardware?
1:25:29Uh I'm not sure to be honest. I know
1:25:31it's a workstation. It's a workstation.
1:25:33So it's not a laptop. Correct. It's it's
1:25:36like a it's a it's a box and a and a and
1:25:39a flat screen. Correct. Okay. And it's
1:25:41at the norththeast corner. You said
1:25:44northeast corner. So if if I was to walk
1:25:47into the library,
1:25:50uh where would the doors be to the front
1:25:52entrance of the library?
1:25:54They would be
1:25:55um very uh close to the
1:25:59um southeast entrance of the uh S
1:26:02building of Senica at York. Okay. This
1:26:06and the S building contains the library.
1:26:08Yes. Okay. And uh the southeast entrance
1:26:12and then you'd walk then you then you
1:26:14would as soon as you enter you would
1:26:15turn left and then when you walk then
1:26:16you'll see the entrance to the library
1:26:19on the left hand side. Oh, I see. Okay.
1:26:25Draw me a picture of what the library
1:26:26looks like.
1:26:33Have a seat. Have a seat. The library.
1:26:35Yeah. Or where the computer is.
1:27:14That's essentially the um
1:27:17the main layout. So, so, so, so I'm
1:27:21looking at this. That's north. You the
1:27:24top of the page is north, east, west,
1:27:25and south. Yes. Okay. And where's the
1:27:27entrance? The northeast corner is the
1:27:28entrance. Yes. And this is and and this
1:27:31this is around the corner where I
1:27:34um where I prefer to sit when using
1:27:37their uh computers. Okay. Put put a
1:27:39circle or a square. How would you uh
1:27:41show me where you where you're where the
1:27:44I would put it here to be it's not
1:27:45actually the very northeast corner
1:27:47because the actual northeast corner has
1:27:48a bunch of Macs. Uh I am I'm using the
1:27:52most northeast uh Windows computer
1:27:54there. Okay. Just put put computer
1:27:56beside that.
1:27:59Okay. Um do do me a favor. Just sign the
1:28:02bottom there so I know that that that's
1:28:04yours.
1:28:10So, you're you're you're you're kind of
1:28:11a fellow of of of habit. You you you've
1:28:14got a a routine. You stick to it. Yes.
1:28:16Okay. And the computer at home, where is
1:28:18that located?
1:28:21It's located in my room. Oh, okay. What
1:28:23type of computer is that? A Mac. Oh, so
1:28:25you But you do like So, you own a Mac.
1:28:27Well, I I'm I'm good with both Macs and
1:28:30Windows. And Windows. Yeah. But you
1:28:31prefer Windows or Yeah.
1:28:34Really? But you have a Mac? I use it for
1:28:37development. Oh, so there's a difference
1:28:39in terms of the versatility of the
1:28:42different of the computers. Is that is
1:28:43that how it works or Yes. Oh, I see.
1:28:45Okay. So, for development, you like the
1:28:47Mac, but for surfing the web, you like
1:28:49the the Windows? Yes. Oh, okay. That
1:28:51makes sense. All right. And and your
1:28:53your Mac, is it a uh is a laptop?
1:28:57Yes. Oh, okay. What what uh what what
1:29:00version is it?
1:29:02I believe it's High Sierra, if I
1:29:04remember correctly.
1:29:06It's a High I've never heard of the High
1:29:07Sierra High Sierra. That's that's just
1:29:10the operating system name. No, I'm
1:29:11saying is it like a MacBook Air or is it
1:29:14a MacBook uh MacBook Pro? It's a MacBook
1:29:17Pro. So, it's the thicker of the Yeah.
1:29:19Okay. So, it's it's a thick It's about
1:29:21It's about uh 3/4 of an inch or
1:29:23something. Okay. What color is it? Uh
1:29:26steel or gray color. Yeah. So, they come
1:29:28in the standard. And where abouts in
1:29:29your room is your is your is your
1:29:31laptop? On my desk. It's on your desk.
1:29:32You got a desk inside your room? Yes.
1:29:34Okay. How many bedrooms in your house? I
1:29:37don't wish to answer that. Oh, okay. All
1:29:38right. Do you have your own? I just I
1:29:40just don't want to give up the uh
1:29:42privacy of uh anyone else living in the
1:29:44house. I totally understand that. I
1:29:45totally understand. That makes a lot of
1:29:47sense. And I appreciate you telling me
1:29:48that. You know what? And that you know,
1:29:49and like I said, you know, if if that's
1:29:52if that's the issue, you please let me
1:29:53know. Uh can I ask you this? Do you have
1:29:55your own bedroom? Yes. Okay. All right.
1:29:58Okay.
1:29:59Um so uh so when you're on 4chan
1:30:04uh what specifically are you and and you
1:30:07know 4chan when you're when you're your
1:30:09different websites and forever alone
1:30:12which let me ask you this sorry I mean
1:30:14to sound confusing which are you more
1:30:17active on in terms of 4chan 4chan okay
1:30:20um when did you first sorry you
1:30:23mentioned this and I forgot when did you
1:30:24first go on to 4chan
1:30:262014 2014 14 and specifically when in
1:30:292014
1:30:31May 23 uh 2014.
1:30:34How are you able to remember that?
1:30:35Because I remember there was a uh very
1:30:37significant day. Okay. What what day was
1:30:40what was that? Uh that was when uh
1:30:42Elliot Roger uh decided to essentially
1:30:45uh commit an uprising, a beta uprising
1:30:48if you will against the uh Chads and the
1:30:50Stacies. Okay. Okay. And that was in the
1:30:53United States. Yes. And so when you talk
1:30:55about well because um incelss don't
1:30:58believe in borders. Right. Okay. Okay.
1:31:02So so locations are uh irrelevant to us.
1:31:05Right. Right. But for for geographical
1:31:08reference only am I right to understand
1:31:11it it it occurred in California? Yes.
1:31:13Okay. And uh what what type of um uh
1:31:17what what type of uprising occurred?
1:31:19What what happened? It was a beta
1:31:21uprising. A beta uprising. Okay.
1:31:22although he didn't uh call it a Vita
1:31:24uprising at the time. Uh someone else
1:31:27who was inspired by him by the name of
1:31:29uh Chris Harper called it a Vita
1:31:32uprising sometime in uh actually I
1:31:34believe it was October 1 uh 2015. It was
1:31:372014. No. Uh some someone else named
1:31:41Chris Harper Mercer in 2015 uh called it
1:31:44a beta uprising. I'm only retroactively
1:31:47uh assigning the label a beta uprising
1:31:49to the Elliot Rogers. Okay. Uh, moves. I
1:31:54thought Chris Harper Mercer uh committed
1:31:58a beta uprising in Oregon in 2014, which
1:32:02later
1:32:03fueled Elliot Roger to do something
1:32:06similar in California in 2016. It was
1:32:09actually uh the other way around. Elliot
1:32:11Roger in 2014, his what his You're
1:32:15right. I'm sorry. Yes. His um what I'm
1:32:18uh retroactively calling uh beat
1:32:20uprising. Mhm. inspired uh Chris Harper
1:32:23Mercer to do the same thing in 2015.
1:32:25You're absolutely right. I mean, you're
1:32:27absolutely right. That makes makes a lot
1:32:28of sense. So, uh it was uh Elliot Roger
1:32:31who is the the father of basically the
1:32:35the the founding forefather of the
1:32:38entire movement. Right. Right. So,
1:32:39explain to me this movement. What's this
1:32:41movement about? It's basically it's
1:32:43basically a movement of angry incelss
1:32:46such as myself who are unable to get
1:32:49laid. Therefore, we want to overthrow
1:32:52the chads, which would uh force the
1:32:55staces to be forced to uh reproduce with
1:32:58the incelss. Right. Right. Okay. When
1:33:00you say incelss, involuntary celibate,
1:33:03celibate. So, that's just a a short for
1:33:06form for for for fellas who can't get
1:33:10can't can't have sex. Okay. And uh what
1:33:14happened in the uh Elliot Rogers uh uh
1:33:18uprising? What did he do? I know he
1:33:22uh used a uh gun as well as a vehicle to
1:33:27um convert the life status of certain
1:33:30individuals to a death status. Right. Um
1:33:33o only to uh carry the message that um
1:33:37incelss uh can't be oppressed. Right.
1:33:40Right. So it was a uh it was an act of
1:33:43rebellion. Yes. And it was um and uh and
1:33:47um out of frustration and anger. You
1:33:49could call it an incel rebellion. Incel
1:33:50rebellion. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Okay.
1:33:53And um uh how many how many uh lives
1:33:56were converted from living to to dead?
1:34:00Six. Six in total. Okay. And um uh and
1:34:05he used a vehicle in that as well as
1:34:08part of the process of converting these
1:34:09lives. Yes. And uh was anything else?
1:34:13Did he do anything else? I know he used
1:34:16a uh a knife as for his first three
1:34:18murders. For his first three murders.
1:34:20Okay. All right. And
1:34:22um and then uh what about um Chris uh
1:34:27Harper Mercer? What uh what did he do?
1:34:30He used a gun for all of his murders.
1:34:33For all of his murders. And how many did
1:34:34he how many did he how many people did
1:34:35he murder?
1:34:38I believe it was it was either eight
1:34:40killed and 10 injured or uh 10 killed
1:34:41and eight injured. 10 killed and eight
1:34:43injured. Okay. It was one of those two.
1:34:45Okay. And were these fellas active on
1:34:464chan? Yes, they were. Have you ever
1:34:49communicated with these fellas? I
1:34:51actually have as a matter of fact. Who
1:34:53who did you communicate with? Both of
1:34:55them actually. Really? We used uh code
1:34:58names actually. Okay. What was what were
1:35:00they? Uh Elliot Roger was named
1:35:02Valarion. Valtharion. Yes. How do you
1:35:05spell that? V A L T H A R I O N. Okay.
1:35:10And uh what was Chris uh Harper Mercer's
1:35:14name? Space robot. Space robot. One word
1:35:17or two? Uh one word. Camel case. Camel
1:35:22case. That means the S and the uh are uh
1:35:25both capitalized. Oh, I see. Okay. Okay.
1:35:28Uh and Okay. And what was your what was
1:35:30your what was your code name? Xbox Lide.
1:35:32Xbox Light. All one word. All one word.
1:35:35camelcased. No, only the uh first letter
1:35:38was capitalized. The X. Yes. Okay. All
1:35:40right. And uh so what did you discuss
1:35:43with these guys? We discussed our
1:35:45frustrations at um society and being
1:35:49unable to get laid. And we were plotting
1:35:53a certain uh timed strikes on society in
1:35:57order to um confuse and shake the
1:36:00foundations just to put all the uh
1:36:03normies in a uh state of panic. Okay.
1:36:06And who would be a normie? Uh normie
1:36:09means uh normal people. That would be
1:36:11anyone who is uh considered to be normal
1:36:15by uh the unfair standards of society.
1:36:18But not the Chads or Stacies. Chads and
1:36:20Chads and Stacies are
1:36:22actually above normies or at least they
1:36:25think they're above normies. Yeah. Yeah.
1:36:26Yeah. Okay. All right. So, is it fair to
1:36:28say you've got Chads and Stacy's up
1:36:29here, Normies down here, and then you've
1:36:32got Celebs who believe that they are
1:36:34being incelss? Incelss. Sorry. Yes.
1:36:37Incelss who believe they're
1:36:39being suppressed or repressed and and so
1:36:43as a result to even the playing field.
1:36:45Yes. that you know they they uh they
1:36:49convert the Stacies and Chads from
1:36:51living to dead and to make so now we
1:36:54come out on us to on top. Yeah. More
1:36:56that. So is there are so the the targets
1:36:59who are the targets for the this
1:37:02uprising be all of the alpha males. All
1:37:05the alpha males. So the Chads. Yes. So
1:37:08that's those are the people you that
1:37:10that you want to kill. Yes. Okay. All
1:37:12right. And who else? any
1:37:15uh any of the staces who uh do not wish
1:37:18to give their love and affection to the
1:37:20incelss. So they they they're a target
1:37:22as well. Yes. To be killed. Yes. Okay.
1:37:25And what about the
1:37:26normies? Normies.
1:37:29Yes. We do we do we don't necessarily
1:37:32wish to uh kill the normies, but we do
1:37:35wish to subjugate them uh in order to
1:37:37make them understand that the um that
1:37:40our type is uh the more superior one.
1:37:43Right. Right. So when you say subjugate,
1:37:45what do you mean by that? Mean meaning
1:37:47uh either imprison them or put them in a
1:37:49lower position in society. Okay. So that
1:37:52they acknowledge um the incelss or the
1:37:56uh Pepe the frog types as the more
1:37:59superior ones.
1:38:01Okay. So you you're saying things that
1:38:04I'm I'm not familiar with. Sorry. What's
1:38:05a Pepe Pepe? But we uh he's he's a he's
1:38:08a mascot on 4chan. We uh he's a mascot.
1:38:11Yes. Oh, mascot of on 4chan. Yes. I was
1:38:14I was using a metaphor. Oh, okay. Okay.
1:38:16Yeah. So, uh he's actually worshiped
1:38:18quite frequently. Oh, okay. Okay. All
1:38:20right. So, going back to the
1:38:22conversation with with Chris and um and
1:38:25uh Elliot, you're talking to these
1:38:27fellas now. When when are you having
1:38:29these conversations? When when is when
1:38:31do these conversations start taking
1:38:32place? Um before uh obviously before
1:38:37there are massacres because they're both
1:38:39dead now. Right. Right. Right. Right.
1:38:40Right. Right. Okay. And uh and then once
1:38:44you learned of the So what so it was
1:38:47Elliot who was first in 2014. Yes. So
1:38:51what did Elliot what did what did you
1:38:53and Elliot talk about? Let me let me I I
1:38:56find you very interesting. I do and I I
1:38:59find this fascinating. Um but I want to
1:39:01make sure I I don't go too fast. Um
1:39:06did you have did you who did you have
1:39:08conversation with first? Let me ask you
1:39:10that. Elliott. Elliot. So, how did you
1:39:12learn of Elliot?
1:39:16Because on um on the we uh private
1:39:19messaged each other on uh Reddit after I
1:39:22saw one of his posts. Mhm. Uh and uh we
1:39:27just talked about each other and got to
1:39:28know each other and we found each other
1:39:31very interesting. We both had the same
1:39:33uh frustrations at society despite being
1:39:36separated by distance so far apart.
1:39:39Right. Right. Right. Did you ever visit
1:39:41him? Uh, no, but I wish I could have.
1:39:43Yeah. Yeah. Did he ever come and visit
1:39:45you? No, but I wish he did. Yeah. Yeah.
1:39:48Uh, did you ever communicate uh outside
1:39:50of uh 4chan? Did you ever communicate on
1:39:53anything else outside? Reddit was the
1:39:54first place we uh communicated. Oh,
1:39:56okay. And was it uh forever alone? Yes.
1:40:00In that in that subgroup? Yes. Okay. Uh
1:40:05uh did you ever communicate on any other
1:40:08medium or platform?
1:40:11Uh other than Reddit and 4chan? No. No.
1:40:13So you didn't Skype or call on the phone
1:40:15or anything like that? No. Okay. So how
1:40:17long does this conversation with Elliot
1:40:20So So when so when specifically you may
1:40:22have mentioned it, but I wasn't
1:40:24listening. When specifically did you
1:40:26first contact or have contact with
1:40:28Elliot? January of 2014. 2014. And uh
1:40:32when did you stop having communication
1:40:34with him? Uh as soon as he was deceased.
1:40:38Okay. So uh his act I I know took place
1:40:41in 2014, but I I wasn't aware of the
1:40:43exact day. What day was it? May 23 uh
1:40:452014. May 23rd. Yeah. You said that. Uh
1:40:48so when did you last speak to him? May
1:40:51uh 20. May 20th. And so what did he tell
1:40:54you? He told me that uh he has to go. He
1:40:59must he is on a very important mission
1:41:02and
1:41:04uh he might not make it back alive.
1:41:07And so what did you say to him?
1:41:09I uh kind of had an idea in my head of
1:41:12what he was uh planning but I didn't
1:41:14want to think it was true at the time.
1:41:16So I said so I replied and said uh I
1:41:19wish you uh good luck with that. Right
1:41:21on. Okay. Okay. And
1:41:24uh were there anybody was there anybody
1:41:26else in this conversation? It was a
1:41:29private uh conversation. It was a
1:41:31private Okay. So, there's nobody else
1:41:33speaking? No. Okay. And you can have
1:41:35private conversations outside of 4chan.
1:41:40Well, like I said, it was a Reddit
1:41:41private message. Oh, sorry. Uh forever.
1:41:43Yeah. Uh a forever alone. Yeah. Because
1:41:45anyone can uh just private message each
1:41:48other since you have a registered
1:41:49account, right? Okay. Okay. So, you can
1:41:51go on the the the forum and and the
1:41:56threads and leave messages and then you
1:41:58can speak to people outside of the
1:42:02threads privately. Yes. Okay. I'm just
1:42:05because I I haven't been on these these
1:42:07websites, so it's but I've heard about
1:42:09them, so I'm just trying to get
1:42:10familiarized with with with how it
1:42:12works.
1:42:14So, did uh was there was there as far as
1:42:17you're aware, was there anyone else
1:42:19involved in uh uh Elliot Rogers uh uh
1:42:25mission? I believe that he told me that
1:42:30uh other members of uh 4chan were giving
1:42:34him uh encouraging support so that he
1:42:37would have the courage to uh start his
1:42:40rebellion. Right. Right. Right. Okay.
1:42:42And so you last speak to him on March
1:42:4420th. May 20th. May 20th, I'm sorry. May
1:42:4720th, 2014. Yes. He commits his his his
1:42:51acts on the 23rd of May. Yes. And when
1:42:54did you learn that uh what he had done?
1:42:58I saw it on the news later that night.
1:43:00Later on on the 23rd. Yes. Okay. And
1:43:02what did you think?
1:43:04Uh I thought that I came to the
1:43:07understanding that this is the mission
1:43:09that he had to uh carry out. Okay. All
1:43:12right. And anything else? I felt kind of
1:43:15uh proud of him for uh his acts of
1:43:18bravery. Okay. All right. And what about
1:43:21uh how you started to to to change your
1:43:25thinking? Was was any of was that was
1:43:27any of that going on? I was starting to
1:43:29feel radicalized at that time. You were?
1:43:32Okay. And when you say radicalized, what
1:43:33do you mean by that?
1:43:36meaning I felt it was time to take
1:43:38action and not just sit on the sidelines
1:43:40and to just fester in my own sadness.
1:43:43Right on. Okay. All right. And so um so
1:43:47this this is starting this is a process.
1:43:50It's not something that just I mean the
1:43:54day that you realized that uh you were a
1:43:57celeb was the day that you were
1:43:58ridiculed by these girls at this party.
1:44:00But on Halloween of 2013, right? But
1:44:03then as you got to know uh Elliot and
1:44:07then understanding his his uh his uh
1:44:11mission and uh what he had done, you
1:44:15began to to start become radicalized in
1:44:19terms of your thought process. Yes.
1:44:20Okay. And so what takes place next
1:44:26as part of this this this growing
1:44:28radicalization?
1:44:30To be honest, uh the planning didn't
1:44:33occur until about a month ago. Most of
1:44:36it was actually just thinking, okay, and
1:44:39daydreaming. Okay. All right. So, the
1:44:42thinking and daydreaming, when did that
1:44:44start?
1:44:45That started about a month after the
1:44:49rebellion in May of 2014. Okay. So, so I
1:44:53mean, so in June, I started uh thinking
1:44:55about this stuff and then that continued
1:44:58right up till about a month ago. Yes.
1:45:00Which is when I uh booked uh the uh van
1:45:04with the rider in order to uh use as a
1:45:08tool for rebellion. Okay. All right. So
1:45:10tell take me through that process. What
1:45:13was going through your mind and how was
1:45:14you know what were you thinking when you
1:45:15were doing all of this? What was going
1:45:16on? I was thinking that it was a time
1:45:19that I uh stood up to the child and
1:45:22Stacy's. Okay. And then and then so what
1:45:25happened? So this tell me what takes
1:45:27place. So I uh book the van. Yeah. And
1:45:31then I just simply wait until uh today.
1:45:34Y and then I go rent the van and then I
1:45:38uh drive it, take it downtown to
1:45:40Toronto. Okay. And I just start using it
1:45:46as a weapon. Okay. All right. And and so
1:45:49when you say that, what do you mean by
1:45:50that? meaning I it the vehicle collided
1:45:55with uh several pedestrians some of who
1:45:58are no longer alive as a result. Right.
1:46:01Right. Okay. Okay. Uh okay. And uh so
1:46:06that's a lot of information. Take me
1:46:08back to uh a month ago. You said this is
1:46:12when this whole planning started. Yes.
1:46:14Okay. So about a month ago. Where were
1:46:17you at that point?
1:46:19I was at Senica College and I decided to
1:46:22uh phone rider and uh book a either a
1:46:24truck or a van with them and they had a
1:46:28a 10 foot van uh available. So I figured
1:46:32that this is perfect. I can not it's big
1:46:36enough to have an effect but not too big
1:46:39that I can't maneuver with it. Uh
1:46:42so van was the perfect uh medium size to
1:46:45use as my uh weapon. Right on. Okay. So,
1:46:49you're at Senica?
1:46:51Yes. You said. And where specifically at
1:46:53Senica? Are you I was at the college
1:46:55library when you made the phone call? At
1:46:57the college library when you made the
1:46:58phone call? Yes. So, the the the library
1:47:02that you just drew for me? Yes. Okay.
1:47:04And where were you specifically in the
1:47:06library? These desks. Okay. What you
1:47:08just There's actually a my face was
1:47:10facing north. So, show
1:47:13me So, show me
1:47:15where you were.
1:47:19Oh, sitting here facing this way. Okay.
1:47:21So, you just uh just put uh put um rider
1:47:25or phone call.
1:47:32Okay. So, you're sitting there and this
1:47:34is about a month ago. What day
1:47:36specifically is this?
1:47:38It was near the uh beginning of April.
1:47:41So, it wasn't exactly a month ago. It
1:47:42was but almost a month ago. Okay. All
1:47:45right. So, you're at your desk and what
1:47:47time of day is it? Midday. Midday. And
1:47:51uh you said you you made a a phone call.
1:47:54Yes. And how and and oh, how do you make
1:47:57that phone call? Um by googling uh the
1:48:01rental number for uh uh the nearest uh
1:48:04rider location. Okay. And how do you
1:48:06Google the I just simply said uh rider
1:48:10uh rental locations on on my laptop. On
1:48:13your laptop. Okay. So when you say on
1:48:15your laptop, were you using a school
1:48:18computer? No, actually I was using a
1:48:20Windows computer because I cuz I know I
1:48:23said before I have a Mac, but I also
1:48:24have a Windows which I take to school
1:48:27just cuz I don't want the Mac to get
1:48:28damaged. Okay. So you've got two
1:48:30laptops. Yes. Oh, okay. Uh what's your
1:48:33other laptop? The Windows Mac and
1:48:36Windows. Yeah. No, I guess is it uh I
1:48:38mean what what's the the name of the the
1:48:40actual laptop? the the make uh it's an
1:48:44it's a Lenovo. Lenovo. Oh, I see. Okay.
1:48:47And what color is that? Black. Black.
1:48:49And where is that in your bedroom?
1:48:52Uh it's located in my closet. Oh, okay.
1:48:54All right. Your your where you hang your
1:48:56clothes? Yes. Above them. Above. It's on
1:48:58the top shelf. Yes. Oh, okay. How many
1:49:01closets in your in your bedroom? Just
1:49:02one. Just a one. Okay. Uh so you take
1:49:06that the Lenovo laptop to your school.
1:49:09Yes. uh at Senica and in the library at
1:49:12the desk you Google the nearest rider.
1:49:16Yes. Rental truck rental. Yes. Okay. And
1:49:19what made you decide to choose Ryder?
1:49:22Uh because I had looked up some reviews
1:49:25online. They uh were act people were
1:49:28saying good stuff about them because I
1:49:30had looked at some other companies such
1:49:31as U-Haul and people were complaining
1:49:34about them saying that the trucks never
1:49:36arrive on time. And there's the customer
1:49:38support is terrible, but they people
1:49:41loved Ryder. Oh, okay. All right. Okay,
1:49:43that makes sense. Uh, so this was just
1:49:46reviews that you'd read online that made
1:49:48you choose Ryder. Yes. Okay. Can I ask
1:49:50why were you looking specifically for uh
1:49:52a truck?
1:49:54Because it would be uh large enough to
1:49:57inflict severe damage. Okay, that makes
1:49:59sense. Uh, okay. So, how do you contact
1:50:03Ryder? By phoning them, basically. And
1:50:05and what what phone do you use? My cell
1:50:09phone. Oh, okay. So, you got a cell
1:50:10phone with you? Yes. All right. What
1:50:12type of phone is that?
1:50:14Android. An Android phone. Okay. And
1:50:17that's an actual make.
1:50:20That's it's Well, it's either Your
1:50:22phone's either going to be Android or
1:50:23iOS. My phone is uh Android. What's the
1:50:26make of the phone, though? Asus Xen for
1:50:29Asus Zen phone 4. Okay. Where's that
1:50:32phone? What do you mean by where? Where
1:50:34where's where is your cell phone right
1:50:35now? It was uh confiscated. Oh, so we
1:50:38have it? Yes. Okay. And what's the phone
1:50:40number to to yourself?
1:50:424168369711.
1:50:45Okay. And so you call Ryder and uh from
1:50:48Senica and uh what uh Ryder
1:50:53um truck rental. What's what's the
1:50:56address?
1:50:58Uh 700 uh Cornerstone Road. Oh, okay.
1:51:01And uh so what do you say to them?
1:51:02What's the conversation you have? I just
1:51:04um said, "Hey, how are you doing?" I was
1:51:06interested in uh renting a truck. I uh
1:51:10told him that I wanted to just help a
1:51:12friend move furniture around. Okay. All
1:51:14right. Do you remember the individual
1:51:15you spoke to? I believe it was either a
1:51:18Matt or Mike. A Matt or a Mike. Okay.
1:51:21And uh what did Matt or Mike say? that
1:51:24yeah, we do have some uh trucks
1:51:26available and that uh we can rent them
1:51:29out to you and that he asked me when I
1:51:32wished to
1:51:33uh uh rent it and I said April 23 and lo
1:51:38and behold it it was available today.
1:51:41Okay. Can I ask why you chose April
1:51:4323rd?
1:51:45I uh it was I felt it would be a more
1:51:50symbolic if I had completed my uh exams.
1:51:53Okay. Okay. Okay. But apart from the
1:51:5723rd, there was no other reason. No. So
1:52:00if you finished your exams on the 15th,
1:52:02it would have been the 15th. It would
1:52:03have been the 16th. Oh, the 16th. Okay.
1:52:05All right. Uh so you you How long is
1:52:09your conversation with the the fellow
1:52:11from Ryder? About uh two minutes. Okay.
1:52:14Because it was fairly quick. Okay. All
1:52:16right. And then what happens? So you
1:52:17made this phone call. Sorry, let me ask
1:52:19you this. Do did you reserve the truck?
1:52:21Yes. Oh, you Okay. And what did what did
1:52:24you tell him in terms of reserving? How
1:52:25was that going to take place?
1:52:28Um I I said that um we agreed that I
1:52:31could just simply uh pick it up. Okay.
1:52:33Did you have to give a deposit or
1:52:35anything like that? Yes, I had to give
1:52:37it was about a $400 deposit when I uh
1:52:39arrived at the location. Okay. But
1:52:41that's not till later. Correct. Okay.
1:52:43Okay. So, you just reserve the truck.
1:52:44There was no requirement for you to give
1:52:46any type of credit card or or form of
1:52:48payment. Correct. Okay. So, you reserve
1:52:50the truck. Then what happens?
1:52:54Then I uh simply uh record the uh
1:52:57reservation and then I uh go on that day
1:53:00to uh pick it up. So nothing happens for
1:53:04approximately one month. Correct. So you
1:53:07don't you're not thinking about this or
1:53:08anything? I am thinking about it, but I
1:53:10didn't need to make any further
1:53:11preparations. Okay. Okay. So, what are
1:53:13you thinking about while you know you're
1:53:15waiting to to make these preparation or
1:53:16waiting to rent the truck? Uh the
1:53:19uprising I was thinking that I would
1:53:21inspire uh future masses to uh join me
1:53:24in my uprising as well. Okay. All right.
1:53:27Now, how are you going to do that? Uh I
1:53:30was going to uh tell uh people on 4chan
1:53:33uh beforehand. Okay. All right. And and
1:53:36did you do that? Yes, I did. I did a one
1:53:38day in advance. Oh, okay. All right.
1:53:42So, did you actually go on to 4chan?
1:53:45Yes. And post messages? Yes. Okay. And
1:53:48and what name did you or they're
1:53:50anonymous? You said that. Yeah. Is that
1:53:52right? That's that's the default. If you
1:53:53don't specify a name, it's going to say
1:53:54anonymous. Okay. Did you Did you specify
1:53:56a name? No, it was anonymous. Okay. So,
1:53:59it was anonymous. Okay. And what time
1:54:01did you go on to 4ch? Approximately 3
1:54:04p.m. yesterday. 3 p.m. yesterday. Okay.
1:54:07And what specifically did you say?
1:54:10I was using a code language to avoid uh
1:54:13detection by the authorities. I was I
1:54:15stated that there will be a beta
1:54:17uprising tomorrow. I encourage others to
1:54:20uh follow suit. Okay. Okay. And did you
1:54:23post on any other uh uh mediums? Mediums
1:54:28mediums media media any other media? No,
1:54:31just uh 4chan. Just 4chan. Okay. Did
1:54:34anybody reply? Yes. uh uh quite a few
1:54:37people uh were uh congratulating me
1:54:40because I suspect they probably knew
1:54:42what I meant by what I said. Okay. And
1:54:45in fact uh I remember there was one
1:54:47poster who said he was from Edmonton and
1:54:51he would be planning a similar uprising
1:54:54in November uh 15 of this year. Of this
1:54:58year. Okay. Okay. And what specifically
1:55:00did he say in terms of what he was? He
1:55:02said, "Hey, thanks man. Uh he you've
1:55:06given me great inspiration. November 15,
1:55:09Edmonton, the continuation of the
1:55:11rebellion. Okay. Okay. Those are his
1:55:13words. Okay. I understand. Okay. And uh
1:55:17uh so that was uh the one thing you did
1:55:20to as you were thinking about this and
1:55:22planning. Uh what what else were you
1:55:24were you were you doing?
1:55:27Well, I was um finishing up my school
1:55:30work as normal. Yeah. Okay. All right.
1:55:33as I still have to worry about my school
1:55:36work, right? Of course.
1:55:39Anything else? Uh, no, nothing out of
1:55:42the else out of the ordinary. So, in
1:55:45terms of your
1:55:47uh in terms of the time that you spent
1:55:50thinking about this over that month, if
1:55:52you were to break it down into a
1:55:54percentage, I would say 80% of the time
1:55:57was spent thinking about it. Even while
1:55:59I was doing other activities, you were
1:56:00you were you were thinking about I was
1:56:02very preoccupied with it. Very
1:56:03preoccupied with it. Okay. And in this
1:56:06thinking, what were you thinking
1:56:07specifically
1:56:10about how how the foundations of the
1:56:13world would be shooken by this event?
1:56:16Okay. And
1:56:18uh when you say that, what do you mean
1:56:21by the foundations of this world?
1:56:23meaning that I I
1:56:25I was fairly confident that others would
1:56:28be inspired to uh repeat the same
1:56:30actions as me in ba basically just to
1:56:34overthrow society. Okay.
1:56:37Okay. And
1:56:39uh so this sorry is there any other
1:56:42thought process going on? That was
1:56:44pretty much the main thought process.
1:56:46Okay. And uh Okay. So then it comes to
1:56:51today or yesterday the 23rd, right?
1:56:54Because I guess the midnight's already
1:56:55passed. Yeah, exactly. So it was
1:56:57yesterday. So um walk me through your
1:57:00day. You get up in the morning. What
1:57:01time do you get up? Uh at about 7. About
1:57:057 o'clock. Okay. And then what do you
1:57:06do? I have breakfast. I brush. Mhm. Uh
1:57:11nothing unusual, right? And then what
1:57:14happens? I check my emails. uh just to
1:57:17see if there's any school school related
1:57:19stuff or anything that such as job
1:57:22offers, anything like that. And then
1:57:25I'll go for a walk around the
1:57:27neighborhood. Mhm. And
1:57:29then uh then I went uh to the uh Ryder
1:57:33location uh yesterday and uh just took
1:57:38the van and uh brought it out to Toronto
1:57:41and and then I committed the this
1:57:44rebellious act. Okay. All right. So, you
1:57:46get up around 7. Yes. Okay. Uh, you said
1:57:49you have some breakfast. Yes. You
1:57:51brushed? Yes. Okay. Uh, you go on your
1:57:54your your computer. Yes. What computer
1:57:56did what computer were you on? Mac. The
1:57:58Mac. And you said you check some emails?
1:58:00Yes. Did you get any emails that that
1:58:02related to this? Uh, no. Did you send
1:58:05any out in relation to this? No. Okay.
1:58:08So, you uh you're on your computer. How
1:58:10long are you on on your computer for?
1:58:12I'm on there for several hours a day.
1:58:14Okay.
1:58:15just because mainly uh since I'm a
1:58:17software developer anyways, I would have
1:58:18to use my computer anyways. Right.
1:58:20Right. Okay. And then from there uh you
1:58:24go for a walk. Yes. Okay. Now, uh where
1:58:28do where do you where do you go for a
1:58:29walk?
1:58:31Uh around the neighborhood. You just
1:58:33just walked around on Okay. When do you
1:58:35leave the house? Uh usually at about
1:58:398:00 a.m. after I've already finished
1:58:40breakfast and have a rush and
1:58:42everything. Okay. And so, uh, you leave
1:58:45the house at around 8 am and you just
1:58:47walk around the neighborhood. Yes. And
1:58:49what are you thinking about as as you're
1:58:51walking around the neighborhood?
1:58:53I'm, uh, thinking I'm just thinking
1:58:55about life. Okay. Is is is your focus on
1:59:00your mission at all or anything like
1:59:01that? Sometimes, although to be honest,
1:59:03I'm not thinking about it 100% of the
1:59:05time. Uh, sometimes I just try to when I
1:59:08walk, I just try to clear my thoughts.
1:59:10Okay. All right. Uh, were you conscious
1:59:13this morning though that today was the
1:59:15day that this was? Yes, I was very aware
1:59:16of it. Very aware. It was very pressing
1:59:18on my mind. Very pressing. Okay. So, how
1:59:20long are you outside of the house?
1:59:23Usually my walks are about half an hour
1:59:24to an hour. So, is it fair to say that's
1:59:27how long you were out today? Yes. Okay.
1:59:29And uh from the time you get up to the
1:59:32time you leave the house, do you have
1:59:33conversation with anybody?
1:59:36Uh, you mean just yesterday on April 23?
1:59:40Uh, no. No. Okay. And when you're
1:59:42outside, do you speak to anybody?
1:59:45Uh, no. Are you uh chatting with anyone
1:59:47on your phone during this time at all or
1:59:49anything like that? No. Uh, you're not
1:59:51messaging on 4chan or anything like
1:59:53that? I did post a Facebook message uh
1:59:56right before the uh the attack. Okay.
1:59:59Stating that the incel rebellion has
2:00:01already begun. Okay. And
2:00:04uh Okay. All right. Uh posted it with my
2:00:08phone. Okay. So, let's just work up to
2:00:10that. So now you've gone for a walk. Uh
2:00:13it's pressing on your mind this this
2:00:15attack. You you come back home about 45
2:00:17minutes to an hour later. So what time
2:00:18is that?
2:00:21I would say that would be approximately
2:00:249. 9:00. Okay. And uh and then what do
2:00:28you do? Then I just uh I sit back uh I
2:00:34sit on my computer just play some random
2:00:37uh browser games until it's uh it's time
2:00:41to leave. Okay. And so what computer are
2:00:42you on? Mac. Mac. And what uh browser
2:00:45games are you playing? What do you mean
2:00:46by that? Uh just random games on the
2:00:49internet. I was actually I was actually
2:00:50playing uh City Jumper. It's a very old
2:00:53game. Okay. It's uh I just wanted to
2:00:55pass the time until I left. Okay. And so
2:00:58while you're playing this game, do you
2:01:00have a particular time in your mind that
2:01:02you're going to do this?
2:01:05Well, the truck rental was at or van
2:01:08rental was at 1:00 p.m. Okay. So, and I
2:01:11already had a Google Maps route planned.
2:01:13I uh left the house at 11:25. I took the
2:01:16bus to uh the rider location. Okay. So,
2:01:19you're at home. Uh I just want to make
2:01:21sure I'm clear as to what was going on.
2:01:22So, you're at home. You're playing some
2:01:23online video games. Yes. Uh, you knew
2:01:26that the truck rental was at 1:00. Yes.
2:01:29So, uh, you leave the house at 12:25.
2:01:33Yes. Okay. And how do you leave the
2:01:35house? No, sorry. 11:25. Oh, sorry.
2:01:3711:25. 11:25. How do you leave the
2:01:39house? Uh, on foot. I walk to the bus
2:01:42stop. Okay. I uh take the bus stop uh I
2:01:46take the bus uh uh very uh close to the
2:01:49rider location. Okay. Okay. And then I
2:01:51walk from the where I got off the stop
2:01:54to that rental location and then I there
2:01:56from there I picked up the uh van. Okay.
2:01:59So when you what what bus stop did you
2:02:03catch the bus at? I uh went on 85C
2:02:09westbound at my house and I transferred
2:02:11to another bus which unfortunately I
2:02:13don't remember the number because I've
2:02:14only used that that other route is not
2:02:17one of the uh main routes. So, I don't
2:02:19remember the number. Okay. So, but
2:02:20where's the bus stop that you would have
2:02:22attended in order to to board the bus?
2:02:25The first bus was uh Baby 16th. Did you
2:02:28walk to Baby and 16th? Yes. Because it's
2:02:30only about 5 minutes from my house.
2:02:32Okay. And so you there's a bus stop
2:02:34there at Babu and 16th. Yes. And uh I'm
2:02:37assuming we're talking about a York
2:02:38Regional Transit bus. Yes. And what was
2:02:41the name of the bus? The number of the
2:02:42bus? 85C. 85C. And And which direction
2:02:45is that bus going? West. It's going west
2:02:48on
2:02:5016th. No. Yes. 16th. Yes. Okay. It's
2:02:54going west on 16th. So you you catch
2:02:56that bus. Yes. And how do you uh how do
2:02:58you pay to get on the bus? Uh bus
2:03:01ticket. A bus ticket. Okay. Um and
2:03:08uh what time do you get on the bus?
2:03:13At about 11:30. About 11:30. So about 5
2:03:16minutes from your house. Okay. And then
2:03:18how long of a bus ride till you get off
2:03:20and get on the on the on the next bus?
2:03:23It was about uh half an hour until the
2:03:26next bus. Okay. So where do you get off
2:03:29the first bus? What what bus stop do you
2:03:30get off of? Uh highway 7 and Weston.
2:03:35Highway 7 and Weston. Okay. And you
2:03:38board a second bus? Yes. And where did
2:03:40you board that second bus? At that same
2:03:43stop. Same stop. And uh what you don't
2:03:45know the number of that bus? I don't
2:03:47remember unfortunately. Okay. But that's
2:03:49it's a York Regional Transit bus. Yes.
2:03:52Okay. And so what direction do you do
2:03:55you head uh when you get on the second
2:03:57bus? It went north and then it went east
2:04:01again and then it dropped me off about a
2:04:055m minute walk from the uh truck rental
2:04:08location. Okay. So what street would
2:04:10that have been at?
2:04:12I don't remember unfortunately because
2:04:14it was a one of those small neighborhood
2:04:15roads, but it was very close to uh
2:04:17Credit Stone Road. It was very close to
2:04:19Credit Stone Road. Yes, Credit Stone
2:04:22Road. What would be the major
2:04:24intersection?
2:04:29I believe the uh bordering street was um
2:04:34Pennsylvania Avenue. It was actually a
2:04:35neighborhood road. It wasn't in a major
2:04:37intersection. Okay. Okay. So, Credit
2:04:39Stone and Pennsylvania. Yes. It was it
2:04:41was in or around that location. Yes. And
2:04:44from there you walked to the rider
2:04:47uh rent truck rental. Yes. Okay. And uh
2:04:51do you have your cell phone on you at
2:04:53this time? It was confiscated. Oh, at
2:04:55that time uh yes. Okay. And the same
2:04:56cell phone you just told me? The Acer
2:04:59cell phone? Asus Xen Phone 4, right?
2:05:02That phone. Yes. Okay. Uh do you receive
2:05:05or make any phone calls during that
2:05:06time? No. Okay. Uh what about uh Okay.
2:05:10Okay, we'll we'll ask you that later.
2:05:11But so you you walk to the rental store
2:05:13or uh the truck rental store. What time
2:05:15do you arrive at the truck rental store?
2:05:19At about uh 12:30. Okay. 12:30. All
2:05:22right. And so you walk in and what do
2:05:25you do? I uh say, "Hi, my name is Alec
2:05:29Manassian. I'm uh here. I know I'm
2:05:32early, but I have a truck rental at
2:05:341:00."
2:05:36Um, so then I end up filling out some
2:05:41forms, signing some stuff. I wait a bit
2:05:43and then eventually I'm given the van.
2:05:45Okay. And the individual you speak to,
2:05:47what do they look like? He was wearing a
2:05:50uh bright vest. Bright vest. Okay. What
2:05:53color of skin did he have? White. White
2:05:55skin. Did you catch a name? Uh, no. No.
2:05:59Uh, how old were you then? He was
2:06:01probably in his 30s. Probably in his
2:06:0230s. And what color was his hair? I
2:06:04think it was dark brown. Dark brown. How
2:06:06tall was he? Uh, he was about 5'9. Oh,
2:06:105'9. How much did he weigh? I would
2:06:12estimate to be about 152.
2:06:15150. 152. 152. 152 lbs. Yes. Okay. I'm
2:06:19very precise like that. Okay. Okay.
2:06:21That's good. Okay. And so in terms of
2:06:23his build, how would you describe his
2:06:24build?
2:06:27Um, you it was kind of lean but slightly
2:06:31muscular at the same time. Oh, okay. All
2:06:33right. Uh uh what about facial hair?
2:06:37Uh he was clean shaven. Clean shaven.
2:06:39Okay. Any other distinguishing
2:06:40characteristics about him that would put
2:06:42you know center him out from anyone
2:06:45else? None in particular. Okay. So
2:06:48sorry. What do you say you're you're
2:06:49there early but you want to know if this
2:06:51truck is available? Yes. Okay. And uh in
2:06:55terms of the trucks, did you have uh
2:06:58were were you given a choice of trucks?
2:07:00I was gi I was given a choice um when I
2:07:04was making the uh the phone call earlier
2:07:06this month, right? So, I chose the 10
2:07:08foot one. Okay. And although it's
2:07:11actually a a van uh but we were it was
2:07:14it's sometimes being referred to as a
2:07:16truck uh during the uh rental. Right.
2:07:18Right. Were uh so it I'm assuming there
2:07:22were there were various sizes of trucks
2:07:26vans available? Yes. Okay. Was the van
2:07:29the largest?
2:07:31No, it was actually quite small compared
2:07:32to the actual trucks. Okay.
2:07:36So, what did I What did you Why did you
2:07:40choose the van? Uh because it was larger
2:07:44than a car, therefore large enough to be
2:07:46effective, but not so large that it made
2:07:48maneuverability hard. Oh, I see. Okay,
2:07:50that makes sense. And when did you come
2:07:51to that realization? I was thinking
2:07:54about it before I um well before I made
2:07:57the phone call. I was thinking I need
2:07:58something powerful enough to be
2:08:00effective. Like I said before uh and
2:08:04small enough that it's uh maneuverable.
2:08:06Okay. So you were thinking about that
2:08:08before. Was
2:08:10this when when specifically did this
2:08:13this thought process come into your
2:08:15mind?
2:08:17About two days before I made the phone
2:08:19call. Okay. So, am I is it fair to say
2:08:22you you reserved a larger truck, but
2:08:25then when you went into Ryder after
2:08:27thinking
2:08:29about the logistics of your mission, you
2:08:33No, I uh I just um the van that I used
2:08:38was the was what I uh rented. Oh, okay.
2:08:41All right. Okay. Uh Okay. So, you're at
2:08:44the counter, you rent the van. Uh what
2:08:47does the individual the the salesperson
2:08:49say to you?
2:08:51Um, well, he just asks me if I have my
2:08:54driver's license. He asks me for a
2:08:56credit card. I, uh, I use it, card gets
2:09:00approved, and then he says, "Okay, wait
2:09:02here. I'm going to, uh, get the, uh, van
2:09:05for you." And then about 10 minutes
2:09:06later, he has it for me. Okay. So, the
2:09:09you produced a uh, your Ontario driver's
2:09:12license? Yes. Okay. And uh, what type of
2:09:14credit card do you produce? Visa. And
2:09:17what banking institution does it has it
2:09:19TD? So it's a TD visa. Is it a does it a
2:09:24particular brand of TD visa? Does it
2:09:26have a particular
2:09:28uh No, it's just simply a TD visa. Just
2:09:30a simply simple TD visa. Okay. And um
2:09:34I'm going to ask, do you know the number
2:09:36of your Visa card? I don't remember it.
2:09:39You don't remember? Okay. Um uh but it's
2:09:42in your name? Yes. Okay. Okay. So, the
2:09:44fellow behind the counter takes your
2:09:46your identification and the Visa guard
2:09:48card. Presumably, he he charges you for
2:09:51the rental. Yes. Okay. And how much was
2:09:53the rental?
2:09:56I don't remember to be honest. I think
2:09:57it was I remember I had to pay $400 a
2:09:59deposit. Okay. Uh to be honest, I wasn't
2:10:02really paying attention to the cost
2:10:03because I knew I would be able to cover
2:10:05it anyways. Okay. All right.
2:10:08Um did you sign any documents? I uh
2:10:12signed uh on a tablet. Okay. All right.
2:10:16All right. Um were you given any type of
2:10:19uh receipt?
2:10:21Yes, I uh in fact I put it inside a uh
2:10:25folder which was in the van which I'm
2:10:27assuming has probably been uh
2:10:29confiscated as the van was probably
2:10:31searched. Right. Right. So where was the
2:10:33receipt in the in the in the van? Inside
2:10:36a uh some folder. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay.
2:10:38It was It was next to the uh steering
2:10:42wheel near the coffee cup holders. Okay.
2:10:45All right. Same place where my uh phone
2:10:47and wallet were. Okay. All right. So,
2:10:49you're you've now uh paid for the van.
2:10:53Uh you've signed for it. You've been
2:10:54given a a paper receipt. Uh the And then
2:10:58what happens?
2:11:00Uh then I uh as I said before, he tells
2:11:04me to wait uh as he's getting the van.
2:11:06And so I wait about 10 minutes. Okay.
2:11:08And then uh he brings the van and then I
2:11:11uh go into it and then I take it
2:11:13downtown to Toronto and I start uh using
2:11:15it. Okay. So when you're presumably the
2:11:18van gets pulled up in front of the the
2:11:20entrance. Is that uh Yeah. He he pulled
2:11:24it up next to the building and he uh
2:11:26made it ready uh to be able to easily
2:11:29exit out. Okay. And so, do you do an
2:11:31inspection of the van to make sure that
2:11:33there's no damage you're gonna uh uh No,
2:11:36I didn't bother because the van didn't
2:11:38appear to be damaged or anything like
2:11:39that. Okay. Uh so, uh he gives you the
2:11:44keys. Yes. Okay. Um and uh what do you
2:11:48do at that point? I uh drive off. Okay.
2:11:51And what route do you take?
2:11:53Uh I drove down uh cornerstone. Mhm.
2:11:57Sorry, Credit Stone. Uh until I uh
2:12:02reached, I believe, uh Highway 7. Okay.
2:12:06Uh then I went east on Highway 7 and
2:12:09then I took the uh ramp to uh Young and
2:12:13then I went south on Young until I uh
2:12:16reached the uh attack location uh near
2:12:19Fitch. Okay. So, what direction are you
2:12:22traveling on? Credit stone. South.
2:12:24South. And then you go west on No, East.
2:12:27Sorry. East on Highway 7. And then I And
2:12:30then I take that ramp to Young. Okay.
2:12:32And then on Young, I continue south.
2:12:35Okay. So, when do you leave Ryder? I
2:12:38wasn't looking at the time when I left,
2:12:39but I know I received the van before 100
2:12:42p.m., although it was uh the booking was
2:12:45actually scheduled for 1. Okay. All
2:12:46right. And how long does it take you to
2:12:49get from Ryder to Young Street? I would
2:12:53to young to the beginning of Young to
2:12:55the beginning of the beginning of the
2:12:57attack. Oh. To the near Young and Fitch.
2:12:59Yeah. I would estimate about 20 to 30
2:13:01minutes. 20 to 30 minutes. Now, what are
2:13:04you thinking while you're in the van?
2:13:07Uh, I'm thinking that this is it. This
2:13:09is the day of retribution. Okay. And uh,
2:13:13anything else in your mind?
2:13:15Just that that's that that's the only
2:13:17thing that's in my mind. It's just
2:13:18burning in my mind. Burning in your
2:13:19mind. Yeah. Okay. And uh so let me ask
2:13:23you this because this is really
2:13:24interesting.
2:13:26Why do you choose Young and Finch?
2:13:29I I didn't choose Young and Finch in
2:13:31particular. I was driving down Young
2:13:33because I knew it would be a busy area
2:13:36and then as soon as I saw there were uh
2:13:38pedestrians, I just decided to uh go for
2:13:41it. Okay. And so where specifically were
2:13:45you in terms of your specific location?
2:13:48Where were you when you just decided to
2:13:51go for it?
2:13:53I was uh at some traffic lights. Okay.
2:13:57Where?
2:14:00Um actually I don't remember. The only
2:14:02reason in fact if if I hadn't uh I
2:14:06remember some other I had heard some
2:14:10other officer or mentioned young and
2:14:12Finch before that's the only reason I
2:14:13really remember it. Okay. But otherwise
2:14:15I actually wouldn't have remembered.
2:14:17Yeah. Young and Finch. I just knew that
2:14:19I started seeing a lot of people
2:14:21walking. Okay. Uh am I am I to stand am
2:14:25I correct when I when I say that you
2:14:26knew at least you were on Young Street?
2:14:28Yes. And you knew that you were because
2:14:29I specifically chose it beforehand cuz
2:14:31that's that's why cuz I even looked for
2:14:33that ramp from Highway 7 to Young,
2:14:36right? Okay. Okay. So, nevertheless,
2:14:39you're at a you're at a you're at a
2:14:40stoplight, you said? Yes. You're at and
2:14:43now are you faced with a red light,
2:14:44you're stopped? Uh, yes. But as soon as
2:14:47it turned green, I uh started going.
2:14:50Okay. And just walk me through this.
2:14:53Okay. Step by step. So, it turns green
2:14:56and what are you thinking?
2:14:58I'm thinking that uh this is it. I see
2:15:00all these people. It's uh time to uh go
2:15:03for it. Time to go for it. And what do
2:15:05you do? I uh floor the pedal. I speed
2:15:09the van towards them and I uh allow the
2:15:12van to uh collide with them. Okay. And
2:15:15then what happens?
2:15:17Uh some people get knocked out of the
2:15:19way, some people roll o over the top of
2:15:21the van. Okay. And then what what
2:15:24happens?
2:15:26I uh continue doing that until
2:15:30um in fact actually to be honest the
2:15:33only reason I stopped my attack was
2:15:35because someone's drink got splashed on
2:15:37my uh windshield and I was worried that
2:15:40I would uh crash the van anyway. So I
2:15:43decided okay now I I wanted to do more
2:15:46but I've kind of been foiled by a lack
2:15:48of visibility. So then that's when I uh
2:15:51pulled I turned right and I pul and I
2:15:54saw the cops approaching. So I decided
2:15:56to pull over and get out of my van.
2:16:00Okay. How long do you travel from the
2:16:04moment that you you decide this is it?
2:16:07The light turns green and you uh mount
2:16:10the sidewalk. Is that right? Yes. To the
2:16:13time that you stop. How long in terms of
2:16:16distance would that have been? About two
2:16:17traffic two or three traffic lights. two
2:16:19or three traffic lights. Okay. So, you
2:16:22turn right at what street?
2:16:26I don't remember which street. I wasn't
2:16:28paying attention. Why do you turn right?
2:16:31Um because
2:16:34I because there wasn't any convenient
2:16:37place to stop at Young and I and like I
2:16:40said that there was a lack of visibility
2:16:42on my windshield. I could hear the cops
2:16:44coming anyway. So the the when I turned
2:16:46right, there was a convenient place to
2:16:48pull over on the sidewalk. Okay. Okay.
2:16:51And so you're now so you're you're
2:16:54you're you physically stop your vehicle?
2:16:57Yes. You physically stop. So you end the
2:16:59assault. Yes. Okay.
2:17:03Um and you end it because you can't see.
2:17:06Yes. And you knew the cops were coming.
2:17:08Yes. Okay. And so then what happens at
2:17:10that point? Uh, I I see a patrol car
2:17:13pull over and I hear the cop screaming
2:17:15at me to get out. So, I get out and I uh
2:17:18point my wallet at the cop in it with
2:17:20the intent for it to be confused at the
2:17:23gun so that I could be fatally shot.
2:17:27Okay. And was that something you were
2:17:31thinking about? Yes. I know. I mean,
2:17:34what I'm saying is even even before had
2:17:36I premediated as an attempted suicide by
2:17:39cop, you wanted to you wanted to be
2:17:41killed by the police? Yes. Okay. Um, can
2:17:44I ask why you decided to to to equip
2:17:46yourself with a wallet, not something
2:17:48else?
2:17:50Uh, I was worried. I was thinking about
2:17:53purchasing a toy gun, but I was kind of
2:17:56paranoid that some, for whatever reason,
2:17:59the RAL rental company would ask to see
2:18:02my pockets or any bag if I chose to
2:18:05bring that. So, I decided to go as
2:18:07stealthy as possible so no one suspects
2:18:10anything. Okay. All right. Nevertheless,
2:18:12you get out of the the van, the officer
2:18:14or or sorry, it correct me if I'm wrong
2:18:18because I want to make sure I get this
2:18:19right. You get out of the van because
2:18:21the officer orders you out. Yes. Okay.
2:18:24Uh and you want to uh you want to die by
2:18:27uh by by suicide by police. Uh so you
2:18:30point your wallet at him. Yes. Okay. And
2:18:33and
2:18:35uh do you say anything to the officer?
2:18:38I I actually told him that I had a gun
2:18:40in my pocket, which was untrue, right?
2:18:44Uh then I twice I stuck my left hand in
2:18:47my pocket and attempted to do this just
2:18:50to provoke a reaction. Okay. Uh that uh
2:18:55he unfortunately he didn't react. So
2:18:58then I ended up being ordered to the
2:18:59ground. So I knew at that point he's not
2:19:02going to shoot me. So uh I've lost. So,
2:19:05I just I had no choice but to just and
2:19:08get on the ground. Okay. So, just walk
2:19:10me through this step by step because I'm
2:19:12I'm a little confused. So, you you get
2:19:13out of the van. So, you turn right, you
2:19:17can't see. You hear the police. You know
2:19:19they're coming. You see the police
2:19:20officer approach. You stop your vehicle.
2:19:23Uh you realize this is the the end. He
2:19:25orders you out. You get out of the the
2:19:27van. Yes. Now, your planning your plan
2:19:30was to die by suicide by cop. So, you
2:19:34said you reached into your pocket twice.
2:19:36Well, actually, well, originally I I the
2:19:39entire time I had I was holding my
2:19:40wallet with my right hand, but then when
2:19:43I saw that that wasn't working, I
2:19:45reached into my pocket with my left hand
2:19:47and quickly pulled it out and formed my
2:19:50hand into the shape of a gun like this.
2:19:52Okay. Um, but they hoped that he would
2:19:54panic and shoot me. That of course
2:19:56didn't happen. Okay. And you how how
2:19:59many times did you do that? Twice. With
2:20:01your left hand. All the while you had
2:20:03your wallet wallet with the other head.
2:20:05Right hand. Okay.
2:20:09Um, and so realizing that the officer
2:20:12wasn't going to shoot you, what did you
2:20:15do at that point?
2:20:17I realized I had no choice but to get on
2:20:19the ground because I was probably going
2:20:21to be uh tackled anyways or tased. And
2:20:24if I'm if I'm going to live, I'd rather
2:20:26not encounter a physically painful
2:20:28experience. So I decided I have no
2:20:30choice but to admit defeat at that
2:20:32point. Right. Okay. And so when you say
2:20:33admit defeat, what did you do? I uh got
2:20:36on the ground. Okay. And in terms of how
2:20:39how did you get on the ground? Well, I
2:20:41turned around, I got on my knees, and
2:20:43then I got on flat on the ground face
2:20:46down. Yes. Okay. And then what happened?
2:20:48Then he put his knee in me on my back
2:20:51and then he handcuffed me. Okay. Uh and
2:20:54another officers arrived and pinned me
2:20:56down as well. Okay. All right. And then
2:20:58from there you were placed in the car
2:21:00and we already talked about that. Yes.
2:21:03Okay. That's quite an
2:21:06experience. That is quite a uh
2:21:10not the usual everyday experience.
2:21:13No. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's
2:21:16not. Um,
2:21:18did I miss anything? I believe that's
2:21:22everything. Alec, I thank you for
2:21:24talking to me. I really do. I really do.
2:21:27I really appreciate that you've given me
2:21:28some insight and uh I appreciate you,
2:21:31too.
2:21:33Um, how you feeling right now? I'm
2:21:36feeling good. Okay. We've been here a
2:21:38while. Do you need to borrow the
2:21:39washroom?
2:21:41Uh, well, yes, but if there's anything
2:21:44urgent, I I'm able to wait. Okay. Can I
2:21:47ask you to uh sit tight for uh two
2:21:51seconds? Okay. I want to get another
2:21:52bottle of water for me because I'm
2:21:53really thirsty. Um, what I'll do is um
2:21:55I'm going to step out
2:21:57Um, and then I'll come back and if
2:21:59there's any other questions I have, I
2:22:01will uh I will uh I will speak to you
2:22:03about that. Okay. Okay. I'm just going
2:22:05to sign this here with my
2:22:19name. And it's the 24th now, isn't
2:22:23it? Okay.
2:22:37subtitles everybody.
2:24:58[Music]
2:25:04Let me take you out. Let's use the
2:25:06washroom and then we'll we'll be back.
2:25:08Should I uh leave this here or am I
2:25:09allowed to take it with me? Uh no,
2:25:12you'll leave it here because you'll uh
2:25:14we're going to come back. Okay. I just
2:25:15got to put the arm on
2:25:17here. Yeah.
2:25:38Okay, just give me a couple of seconds
2:25:40and
2:25:41then put a seat there. Be right back. Do
2:25:45you want anything to eat?
2:25:47Uh, I'm good. Thanks.
2:26:13Okay. Okay. Tell me what happened from
2:26:15the time we left the time we came back.
2:26:19You mean just now? Yeah. Uh I went to
2:26:21the uh washroom. I urinated in the
2:26:24toilet bowl. I uh washed my hands
2:26:26thoroughly at the sink. Uh then I uh
2:26:30took some paper towel. I uh use that to
2:26:32close the top. Uh threw that paper towel
2:26:36in the garbage and I took two more uh uh
2:26:39pieces of paper towel, used that to open
2:26:41a knob while holding the door with my
2:26:43foot. I put the paper towel in the uh
2:26:45garbage and then we walked back. Yes. I
2:26:48wanted to ensure that there would be no
2:26:49uh germs on my head. Perfect. Uh did we
2:26:52have any conversation while we were
2:26:54outside? Uh no. No. Um I I think I
2:26:58pointed out where the bathroom was. I
2:27:00said it sits here on the right. And then
2:27:02you went in and did you speak to anybody
2:27:04else? No. Anybody speak to you? No.
2:27:06Okay. Um I was thinking uh you mentioned
2:27:10you went to Quebec. Yes. Why did you go
2:27:13to Quebec? Uh I went to Montreal. Oh,
2:27:16the mountain. No. Okay. Yeah, for uh
2:27:19summer hiking. Oh, okay. All right. When
2:27:21When did you go specific?
2:27:24I've gone uh a few times in the past.
2:27:27Okay. And why Mount Trlau? Uh cuz I'd
2:27:30heard it's a good place for uh hiking in
2:27:32the summer. Is that something you do you
2:27:34like to do as a hobby? Yes. You like to
2:27:37hike? Yeah. Okay. Uh who did you go
2:27:38with? Uh I don't wish to specify. Okay.
2:27:42Uh how long were you there? Uh just for
2:27:45a weekend. Okay. All right.
2:27:56Um you were in
2:27:59Buffalo. I understand.
2:28:02I don't recall ever being in Buffalo.
2:28:04You never recall going to Buffalo? No.
2:28:05No.
2:28:07Uh my understanding is you traveled to
2:28:09Buffalo
2:28:11and you traveled to another
2:28:14uh US state. I have uh been to Chicago
2:28:21and Boston, San Francisco and LA. Okay.
2:28:24All right. Okay. When did you go down
2:28:25there? Um San Francisco and LA were
2:28:30Christmas of 2003 and 2013. Mhm. Chicago
2:28:33was uh winter of sorry well Christmas
2:28:37time of uh 2007. Mhm. Boston was uh May
2:28:43of uh 2012. Okay. Uh what was the reason
2:28:47to go what was the reason for going to
2:28:48the US? Uh justification.
2:28:51Okay. Did you go with a family? Yes.
2:28:54Okay. Um can I ask what religion you
2:28:56are? Uh I'm not of any uh particular
2:29:00religion. You you you you don't follow
2:29:01any denominations. I'm atheist. You're
2:29:03atheist. Oh, I see. Okay. Can I ask what
2:29:05religion you were raised? I wasn't
2:29:08raised with any religion. Oh, okay. It
2:29:10fair to say your parents aren't
2:29:12religious. Yes. Okay. Uh okay. Um so you
2:29:16don't have any religious ideology or No.
2:29:19Uh
2:29:21uh you know particular uh religious uh
2:29:25faith or following of any kind? Correct.
2:29:27Okay.
2:29:29Um, you uh did you go to your prom? No,
2:29:34I didn't. You didn't go to your high
2:29:35school prom? No. Okay.
2:29:38Um, have you ever had a girlfriend? No.
2:29:41Okay. Can I ask you something? This is
2:29:44It's personal, but uh given what you've
2:29:46told me, I believe it's relevant. Uh,
2:29:49have you ever had uh an intimate
2:29:50relationship with with a woman?
2:29:52Unfortunately, I haven't. Okay. Is that
2:29:54something you you would want to do?
2:29:57Yes. Okay. All right.
2:30:01Um, can you tell me why it is that you
2:30:03haven't had an intimate relationship
2:30:05with a woman? I feel it's because I'm
2:30:08too nice. Mhm. Okay. All
2:30:11right. Uh, have you you made you made
2:30:14attempts or I should say have you made
2:30:16attempts to to have an intimate
2:30:19relationship with with a woman? Uh, yes.
2:30:22I did ask a girl out once, but she uh
2:30:25rejected me. Oh, okay. And when was
2:30:27that? Uh that was in uh 2012. 2012. So
2:30:31it was before the
2:30:33October Halloween of 2013. Yes. Okay. Uh
2:30:39and was that did that leave you with uh
2:30:42I mean, how did how did that leave you?
2:30:45I uh felt crushed at that point. Okay.
2:30:48Uh uh I'm talking about the the 2012
2:30:50incident with the the girl. Yes. Oh,
2:30:53okay. All right.
2:30:55Um
2:30:57Alec, remember when we talked about
2:31:00telling the truth? Yes. And I I asked
2:31:02you to, you know, if you were going to
2:31:04tell me your side of the story, which
2:31:05you did, and I appreciate that. Uh has
2:31:08has everything you told me been the
2:31:09truth? Yes. Okay. Because I I'm going to
2:31:12be honest with you. There are there
2:31:13there's one aspect of your story
2:31:17that doesn't doesn't cooperate with with
2:31:21the information we
2:31:23have. Okay. There was there's one piece
2:31:26to your story that uh is inconsistent
2:31:30with what we
2:31:34know. Would you care to guess what what
2:31:36piece that is?
2:31:39I can't think of the inconsistency
2:31:43uh how you specifically got to the the
2:31:46rider
2:31:49uh truck
2:31:52rental. If I was to suggest to you that
2:31:55we received information that somebody
2:31:57dropped you off there, would I be right?
2:32:04I don't wish to answer that. Okay. The
2:32:08reason why I say that is because it's,
2:32:09you know, what you've told me, I believe
2:32:11you. Okay? But you know, I I asked you
2:32:15to tell me at the I asked you at the
2:32:17beginning to tell me the truth that if
2:32:19you were going to talk to me, all I
2:32:21wanted was to be from the heart, which
2:32:22it was, and to be the truth, which I
2:32:25believe the majority of Okay. Um, so
2:32:29what I'd like to do is at this
2:32:30particular at this particular juncture,
2:32:32if there's a portion I don't want I'm
2:32:34not asking you to reveal anybody or
2:32:36names, okay? But if there's a portion of
2:32:39your statement that is not
2:32:42true, okay? I'd like to
2:32:46know because it's important. It's about
2:32:48the truth. You're very forthright uh
2:32:51upfront about what's happened, but it's
2:32:53important that we get the truth.
2:32:59Okay. I I'm not asking for names. All
2:33:02right.
2:33:03But in terms of how you got to the
2:33:08rider
2:33:10dealership, were you telling me the
2:33:12truth or not? Yes. I was telling the
2:33:16truth. You were telling me the truth as
2:33:17to how you got there? Yes. You're not
2:33:19lying. No.
2:33:21So, in other words, the truth is you
2:33:23caught the the bus. Yes.
2:33:28The truth is that you did not get
2:33:30dropped off by somebody. Correct.
2:33:34Why is it that we would receive
2:33:36information?
2:33:39I Sorry.
2:33:41I can't think of a reason why. I'm going
2:33:44to be straight up with you. Your dad has
2:33:45told us that he dropped you off at a
2:33:48Starbucks coffee
2:33:52shop, earlier today or earlier
2:33:55yesterday.
2:33:58Yes, that is what happened. Okay. So,
2:34:02why wouldn't you tell me that?
2:34:05Because I was worried that you would
2:34:07think he was an accomplice. Okay. I I
2:34:09that he was not aware of this. Okay. I
2:34:12And I believe you. I believe you in
2:34:13saying that. Okay, I want you to know
2:34:15your dad's not in trouble. Okay, and
2:34:17we're not, you know, we're not looking
2:34:19at your dad as being an accomplice.
2:34:21Okay, you have my word on
2:34:23that. Okay, but what's important, Alex,
2:34:26is that I get the
2:34:28truth.
2:34:31Okay, we we don't believe that your dad
2:34:34is an accomplice. Okay, I'm not going to
2:34:35lie to you, okay?
2:34:39Um, you're not your dad's your dad your
2:34:42family is not in any kind of
2:34:43trouble. Okay. But I need the
2:34:47truth. Okay. So, let's go back. You said
2:34:52you got up in the morning. Yes. Okay.
2:34:55What time did you get up in the morning?
2:34:58Uh, I believe it was at about 7.
2:35:01Okay. Now, you told me what happened.
2:35:05Yes. Yes. Was all of that the truth in
2:35:07terms of getting up, having breakfast,
2:35:09brushing? Yes. And then leaving the
2:35:11house around 8 to go for a walk? Yes.
2:35:13And you were out for about an hour to 45
2:35:15minutes to an hour? Yes. Is that the
2:35:17truth? Yes. Okay. And then you come
2:35:19back? Yes. And then you were playing on
2:35:22video games. Is that the truth? Yes. All
2:35:25right. So from that point, what happens?
2:35:30I I'm uh given a ride to uh the
2:35:34Starbucks location near Highway 7 and
2:35:37Weston. Okay. And then from that point I
2:35:41uh walk to the uh rider uh rental
2:35:45location and from there I pick up my
2:35:47van. Okay. So we're not if we go back to
2:35:50the York Regional Transit System, we're
2:35:52not going to see you boarding the bus.
2:35:55Correct. Okay. So that was a lie.
2:35:57Correct. Okay. So, what did you tell
2:35:59your dad? Why did you know what did you
2:36:01tell your dad that I told him I was
2:36:04meeting up with a friend? And what
2:36:05what's your friend's name? Brandon
2:36:07Lavine. Okay. And And what was the
2:36:09purpose for this meeting? What did you
2:36:11tell your your dad the purpose of this
2:36:12meeting to be? Uh just to be able to um
2:36:16catch up on old times, talk with each
2:36:19other, and chat.
2:36:21Okay. That's what we That's what we All
2:36:24right. Well, thank you for talking.
2:36:27I want to ask you this, okay? We're not
2:36:30looking at anybody else
2:36:33uh as being involved in this. Okay. Um
2:36:36so in light of all of that, is there
2:36:38anything else that you've told me that
2:36:40isn't true? No. Everything else is the
2:36:43truth? Yes.
2:36:47You're you're you're being upfront and
2:36:49honest with me. Yes. Okay.
2:36:54Um while you
2:36:57were planning all of planning the
2:37:00attack starting approximately a month
2:37:04ago when you were in the the planning
2:37:08and
2:37:09deliberate deliberation stage right
2:37:13through to uh getting
2:37:16arrested. Who did you talk to about this
2:37:19attack?
2:37:214chan. 4chan. Okay.
2:37:26So, what do you mean by that? Meaning I
2:37:28uh posted two days before the attack
2:37:31that um I hinted that there would be
2:37:35another uh beta uprising and that and
2:37:39then when there were replies some of the
2:37:42people based on the replies I could tell
2:37:43that they kind of knew what was going to
2:37:45happen.
2:37:47Okay. Did you have any uh conversation
2:37:51with anybody else?
2:37:54Not in real life. What does that mean? I
2:37:56mean not in person.
2:37:59Okay. How did you over what
2:38:03uh medium did you did you did you
2:38:05communicate? Just 4chan. So what do you
2:38:08mean by not in real life or not in
2:38:10person? Who were you speaking to? Well,
2:38:11real life means you're not using the
2:38:14computer, right? Uh so I did not inform
2:38:18anyone in person of these plans. Okay.
2:38:22Outside of 4chan and leaving threads or
2:38:25messages on threads, who else did you
2:38:28talk to using uh social media or or I'm
2:38:33speaking specifically to individuals.
2:38:35Who specifically did you tell? No one.
2:38:37No one.
2:38:42You mentioned you were playing um City
2:38:46Jumper. No, City Jumper. Before that,
2:38:48you were playing uh
2:38:52uh Call of Duty and you've played Halo
2:38:57and you've played uh GTA. Yeah, Grand
2:39:01Theft Auto. How did you play these
2:39:03games? I mean, I know you played them
2:39:05with an Xbox uh 360. With an Xbox 360.
2:39:08And where's that Where's that Xbox 360?
2:39:10I actually I no longer have one. I used
2:39:13to have one. Okay. Where did you where
2:39:15did you uh when did you get rid of it?
2:39:18Uh well, a few months ago the disc tray
2:39:22got jammed. So uh that's why we had to
2:39:25get rid of it. Okay. So how did you get
2:39:27rid of it? We just uh threw it out.
2:39:30Threw it in the garbage. Yes. Okay. So,
2:39:33did you ever uh uh use the online
2:39:38uh uh Xbox Live? Xbox Live? Yes. Okay.
2:39:42And what was your username on Xbox? My
2:39:45uh gamer tag was Xbox Lite Side? Xbox
2:39:49Light? Yes. All one word? Yes. Uh any
2:39:54capitals? The first letter. First
2:39:56letter. And uh in your conversations
2:39:59with other people online while playing
2:40:02Xbox or while using Xbox
2:40:05uh who did you discuss or talk to about
2:40:08uh conducting this mission? I didn't uh
2:40:11discuss it with anyone over Xbox Live.
2:40:14Okay. Who did you discuss
2:40:18uh specifically uh with about this
2:40:21mission using any other type of
2:40:23communication other than 4chan? Yeah. No
2:40:26one. No one. So, it's fair to say no one
2:40:30knew that you were planning to to to do
2:40:32this attack. Correct.
2:40:37Okay. I want to talk to you, and this is
2:40:39very important. I want to talk to you
2:40:41about uh this uh Edmonton
2:40:46uh attack that's going to take place
2:40:48later this year. You said it was in what
2:40:51month? November 15, 2018. 2018. Uh what
2:40:55more uh what what more information can
2:40:56you tell me about this uh this impending
2:40:58attack? The only information I have is
2:41:01that um
2:41:03someone hinted in the uh as a reply. He
2:41:07simply said that uh this
2:41:10has Yeah, I think I know what you mean,
2:41:13bro. This uh kind of this has kind of
2:41:15inspired me.
2:41:18Um, I am planning something similar
2:41:22November 15 this year.
2:41:26Okay. How do you know it was going to be
2:41:27a reply? It was a public post. It was a
2:41:30public post. How do you know it was
2:41:31going to take place in Edmonton? Because
2:41:33he said uh Edmonton. Because he said
2:41:35Edmonton in the post. So if I was to go
2:41:38on to 4chan, would I be able to see this
2:41:40post? uh due to the high fre high volume
2:41:44the high frequency of posts on 4chan the
2:41:46old threads get pushed out very uh
2:41:48quickly however it is possible that they
2:41:51uh get archived on some other website
2:41:55okay and what specifically what thread
2:41:57was this under
2:41:59uh it doesn't have a name because I left
2:42:01that uh field blank okay so but what uh
2:42:05what subfolder is it in
2:42:08Um,
2:42:10is it there's no subfolders
2:42:12unfortunately. So, oh, I thought you
2:42:14said that there was uh
2:42:17right
2:42:19radical or Oh, it fell fell under the
2:42:22category of alt-right. Alt-right. Oh, it
2:42:24fell in. It's in the al alt-right uh
2:42:27category. Yes. Okay. So, that's where if
2:42:30if it was to be found, that's where it
2:42:31would be. Yes. Okay. What other uh
2:42:35impending attacks do you know of?
2:42:38That's the only one I know of. That's
2:42:40the only one? Yes. Okay.
2:42:43Um, have you uh have you have you had
2:42:47any other discussion with this fellow
2:42:48who who's planning this attack in
2:42:49Everton? No. No. Who is he? I don't
2:42:54know. It's said anonymous. That's the
2:42:56whole point of 4chan. Right. Right.
2:42:57Okay. All right. Is there anything else
2:43:00that you can tell me that might help me
2:43:01better
2:43:02understand what's happened here today?
2:43:05There isn't anything else I can offer to
2:43:07be honest. Okay.
2:43:10Can I ask you to sit tight for a couple
2:43:12seconds? Sure. That's great.
2:44:16I really appreciate you talking to me.
2:44:18Uh, I'm going to be straight up with
2:44:19you. I find you fascinating. I really
2:44:21do.
2:44:23Um, I've never met somebody like you
2:44:25before and
2:44:28uh, this has been quite an experience
2:44:30for me as much as I think it has been
2:44:32for
2:44:33you. Um, can I ask you
2:44:36something? How were you treated here
2:44:38today?
2:44:40Very well, actually. Very well. Okay.
2:44:42And, uh, uh, I'm talking about overall
2:44:46with, you know, from the moment you were
2:44:47arrested right up to now.
2:44:50Yeah, I was extremely well. very long.
2:44:51Okay. In terms of the way I treated you
2:44:53here today, I feel you treated me well
2:44:55well as well. Well as well. Okay. Um
2:45:01uh what's what's going to happen here
2:45:04today? Are you I don't know if you're
2:45:06familiar with the process. So we're
2:45:08going to we're unfortunately we're going
2:45:09to have to hold you. Okay. because um we
2:45:13we we can't release people for certain
2:45:16charges and the ones that you're facing
2:45:17we can't release you which means that
2:45:19you're going to go to court tomorrow or
2:45:20today. Uh you'll uh you'll be in front
2:45:23of a judge. Okay. Uh there will be a
2:45:25lawyer there uh who will advocate or
2:45:28will defend you on your on your on your
2:45:30behalf. Uh there will be a crown
2:45:32attorney who will uh who's the
2:45:34prosecutor who will advocate for the
2:45:37crown or uh the uh for for for the for
2:45:42for the crown uh and they will argue in
2:45:45terms of um uh your your bail your
2:45:50release. Okay. Um
2:45:54uh following that uh court dates will be
2:45:57set in the future.
2:46:00Um you will eventually get a lawyer make
2:46:02application to apply for a lawyer. Um
2:46:06they will receive your lawyer will
2:46:08receive disclosure from us. They'll get
2:46:09a copy of this this video. Um and then
2:46:13with meetings with the lawyer you can
2:46:15discuss what it is you you want to do.
2:46:17Okay.
2:46:19Um I'm going to ask you this
2:46:23uh because it's important.
2:46:27Um, 10 people died here
2:46:30today. Um, 15 people were seriously
2:46:34injured. Um, I think it's important to
2:46:38ask how you feel about that.
2:46:42I feel like uh I accomplished my
2:46:44mission. Feel like you accomplished your
2:46:46mission? Yes. Okay. If the families of
2:46:50those people who were murdered and who
2:46:52were injured were in this room right
2:46:54now, what would you say to them?
2:46:59I honestly don't know what I would
2:47:04say. Would you apologize?
2:47:08I honestly don't know.
2:47:15Can we shake your hand?
2:47:18Sure. Thank you very
2:47:22much. I appreciate that.
2:47:26Is there any questions you have of me? I
2:47:27don't have any questions. Okay. Uh if I
2:47:30need to speak to you again, would you be
2:47:33up to that? Yes.
2:47:35Okay. Um I got to just make sure there's
2:47:38a a room available. What I'm going to do
2:47:39is um if you don't mind, can I get you
2:47:42to hang out here? Sure. I'm going to get
2:47:43an officer to come in here and he's
2:47:45going to take you back downstairs.
2:47:47Uhhuh. You'll be the You'll be alone in
2:47:48the room and if you need something to
2:47:50eat, you just let him let him know.
2:47:51He'll get you something to eat. Use the
2:47:52washroom and need to lie down, have a
2:47:54sleep, do whatever you want. You can do
2:47:56that. All right. Uhhuh. Okay. So, hang
2:47:58tight. I'll make sure
2:48:49Oh,
2:51:36Hello, sir. Hello. I'm going to take you
2:51:37back downstairs. Okay. Mhm. So, just
2:51:40like we did before, I got to hold on to
2:51:41your arm. Okay. What we
2:51:56walk? Okay. The uh date on my clock is
2:52:00uh Tuesday, April 24th, 2018. Time by my
2:52:03clock is 3:04. And we'll be concluding
2:52:05this interview.
2:52:13Following the interrogation, he was
2:52:15later convicted on 10 counts of
2:52:16first-degree murder and 16 counts of
2:52:18attempted murder. In June 2022, he was
2:52:22sentenced to life in prison with no
2:52:23possibility of parole for 25 years. If
2:52:26you found this video informative, please
2:52:27consider leaving a like and subscribing
2:52:29to the channel, as it really helps
2:52:31support our work and allows us to
2:52:33continue covering important stories like
2:52:34this one. Thank you.

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