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The State of the West - Darryl Cooper (Martyr Made) | #51 — Transcript

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0:00truly historically unprecedented you
0:02know there have been like demographic
0:04Transformations by force you know that
0:06where you talk about like uh the Goths
0:08and the Roman Empire things like that
0:11but the idea of a country's Elites um
0:14just reaching out into radically
0:17different like cultures and bring them
0:19in to overwhelm and displace the native
0:21people of the country that they're
0:22supposed to be ruling is insane you know
0:25thank goodness for Twitter just for the
0:26fact that like if nothing else you get
0:28to see those feelings put on display by
0:31people who are in like high positions
0:34who never dare let that feeling leak but
0:37they can't help themselves on
0:40[Music]
0:50Twitter Our Guest today is Daryl Cooper
0:53he's the host of the Martyr made podcast
0:56and co-host of the unraveling with jao
0:58willink his popularity exploded after he
1:01wrote a Twitter thread that landed him
1:03on the tuger Carlson show and then was
1:05later quoted by Donald Trump he is a
1:08master Storyteller and focuses on
1:10exploring the complex stories of History
1:12to understand how people work enjoy so
1:15surrounded by books what do you think
1:16are
1:17[Music]
1:18the there any historical time periods or
1:23events that remind you of what we're
1:25going through today
1:27uh that are most closely
1:31symbol well or piece bits and
1:36pieces um I would say like I think uh
1:40it's not exactly that it reminds me of
1:42it but like when you look back at the
1:4560s and 7s or like 55 through 75 kind of
1:49era um the like you can you can really
1:53see how we're sort of living the
1:55apotheosis of that time period so it's
1:57not like exactly that the Dynamics are
1:59the the same but that like all the seeds
2:01that were planted there are all in full
2:04flower right now and um like that's you
2:07know maybe it's it was on my mind
2:09because I studied it for a while doing
2:11the Jim Jones stuff but um you know I
2:14think
2:15that what are those seeds as you think
2:18of them what are they yeah what are they
2:21well um I mean if you look at what
2:24happened right in uh starting in say
2:28really the 50s and most American cities
2:30like if you go back to World War
2:33I
2:35uh the demography of the country was
2:39pretty well established in the sense of
2:42like people kind of lived in their
2:46respective areas whether that meant the
2:49respective part of a city the respective
2:51part of the country and people were kind
2:53of situated in in World War I uh and
2:58this was after
3:00you know really
3:02hund definitely 100 years probably a
3:05little longer than that of just constant
3:08churn from immigration and uh things had
3:11started to settle into a
3:14uh in into something that you know had
3:18had some demographic and geographical
3:20stability and so we had like local
3:23cultures and communities starting to
3:24form again different
3:26places and uh when World War I happened
3:30you've got millions of people
3:32overseas um you know working age men
3:35overseas uh limitations on uh what
3:39African-Americans can do and then in
3:411924 like shortly after the war uh
3:44immigration from overseas largely being
3:46cut off the cheap labor Supply that like
3:48industry turned to was the
3:49African-American uh pool which was still
3:52when World War I broke out 95% still
3:54live down in the South and mostly
3:56Rural and so when immigration from
3:58overseas from Europe Europe got cut off
4:02it immediately got replaced with a mass
4:04migration of six or seven million
4:06African-Americans out of the South and
4:07they're all moving you know from again
4:10the country south to the biggest cities
4:14in the country right that's something
4:16that um whether you're talking about
4:18immigrant groups coming from the
4:20countryside in Ireland or in Europe
4:23whether you're talking about like my
4:25ancestors on my father's side who were
4:27part of the Dust Bowl migration out to
4:28California
4:30like you you know there's there's a
4:31culture shock involved there when you do
4:33that and there's usually a you know a
4:36bit of a clash no matter who you're
4:37talking about and so that starts to
4:40happen in all the in all the um northern
4:42and western cities accelerates during
4:44World War II and gets to a point where
4:46you know in 1950 55 or so uh the
4:50demographic transformation and the level
4:53of uh disorder in the cities is getting
4:56to the point where a lot of the white
4:59ethnics that were in those cities and
5:01had these sort of rooted communities
5:04whether it was an Irish Parish
5:06neighborhood or a Jewish neighborhood
5:08with you know these you know uh or or
5:11organic leadership structures that
5:13emerged that were not imposed they were
5:15emerged they they emerged from within
5:17the community and were sort of a
5:19representation of what was the the
5:22natural uh hierarchy of the community
5:25regardless of like whatever institutions
5:27were saying you know um they had these
5:30things in place they had uh you know
5:33informal ways of resolving disputes they
5:37had uh local political systems in the
5:39cities set up in a way that uh the
5:43different ethnic groups sort of were
5:46were able to get into a power sharing
5:47Arrangement that worked for everybody
5:50and things were uh um you know had had
5:55existed that way for just really like a
5:57couple decades and when you get up to
5:59about like the mid-50s most of the
6:01Cities kind of hit this Tipping Point
6:03where a lot of the white ethnics and
6:05those working class and lower class and
6:07middle class neighborhoods start to
6:09leave the cities and go out you know in
6:10the postor War II suburb boom and they
6:13move out and so all of a sudden instead
6:15of being uh you know an Irish Catholic
6:19who lives in a parish neighborhood who
6:21is surrounded by the people uh that you
6:25grew up with and people who watched you
6:27grow up and people you're going to know
6:29your whole life um with you know maybe a
6:32parish priest or local local Big Shot or
6:35whatever that everybody respects and
6:37prominent families that like have some
6:39Sway and sit in the front pew at church
6:41and all that kind of kind of stuff where
6:43you're in this sort of enclosed
6:44environment that uh you know it sort of
6:48in some ways maybe uh limits your
6:51opportunities for self-expression but it
6:53also gives you like a solid identity
6:56right gives you a lot of just a certain
6:58solidity you know
7:01um shortly after this period starts to
7:04dissolve and so as those people start to
7:06move out into the suburbs you know you
7:08don't have those communities anymore
7:09instead you've got just like an Irish
7:11guy living next to an Italian guy living
7:14next to you know whatever and it's just
7:16people and all of a sudden you start to
7:17see this transition from like people who
7:21previously identified with their
7:23religious Faith you know whether they
7:25were a Catholic or a Protestant or or
7:28particular denomination
7:30um or they were Irish Catholic or
7:31Italian Catholic you know they had their
7:33different uh their different churches
7:35and a real different sense of
7:37self-identity you know and the way they
7:38organized and conceived of themselves um
7:42when they moved out you know all those
7:44churches that they used to go to that
7:46were back in the old neighborhoods it it
7:48you know became all just old ladies who
7:51you know were too old to like move out
7:52to the suburbs and they stayed behind as
7:55the neighborhood went to hell and it was
7:56just them and then eventually a lot of
7:58those places closed or they got Tak over
7:59by uh you know by somebody else or
8:02eventually the place gentrified and it
8:03got kind of turned but it wasn't what it
8:05was you know it wasn't a neighborhood
8:07center like a neighborhood church that
8:09you know that really held the community
8:11together um and that and that was true
8:13of all of the uh just neighborhood
8:16institutions you know that that used to
8:18sort of allow the people who lived in
8:21them to be self-governing you know and
8:24um they moved out to the suburbs and
8:28as the
8:30you know the the the the the rootedness
8:33in uh in those local communities that
8:37conferred a solid sense of identity on
8:39people went away um you know try as you
8:43might like you know it's really really
8:45hard I think people out there listening
8:46to this kind of know this themselves
8:48like it's hard to like
8:51maintain yourself as like a Christian
8:54say uh just by yourself totally alone
8:58it's very difficult ult like is it
9:00possible yeah you know Pilgrims Progress
9:03and all that like for sure like it it is
9:05something you can do on your own it's
9:07not designed to be done alone yeah you
9:09know that that's the thing it's like and
9:11so what happens you know with the
9:13individual is one thing what happens in
9:15the aggregate is that it starts to lose
9:17its grip and that that idea starts to
9:19dissolve within people and when you know
9:23the idea becomes less important to your
9:24neighbor over here and less important to
9:26your neighbor over there um there's a
9:28good chance to become less important in
9:30your life as well and so all of those
9:33old old things that used to confer just
9:36to let a person know all those things
9:39that they never really got a say in that
9:41they didn't get to choose you know which
9:42are really the things that uh that
9:45Define who we really are you know or the
9:47things that we we don't choose um as all
9:51those things sort of lost their grip you
9:53have a bunch of sort of nameless
9:54faceless people uh living in the suburbs
9:58without any real sense of neighborly
10:01community that they that they feel uh
10:03particularly rooted in and you know you
10:07sort of start to see what we what we
10:09kind of have now it's like you have a
10:10bunch of people who used to be
10:11Presbyterians used to be anglicans used
10:15to be Catholics and now they live in the
10:17suburbs and they're all white guys like
10:19that's pretty much like the only
10:22identity marker that is sort of in the
10:25you know in the sort of ether that they
10:27can sort of identify with and say well
10:30my neighbor over here and my neighbor
10:31over there we have this in common sort
10:33of the only thing that's out there and
10:35so all those things kind of went away
10:38and you know the society's become kind
10:40of hyper racialized in that sense now
10:43partly that's because um you know that's
10:47only one side of the story obviously the
10:49other side of the story is that you know
10:52after the immigration laws were changed
10:54in ' 65 and you know the floodgates were
10:57open to the entire world the third world
11:00primarily um you know it could have gone
11:03several different ways but the way that
11:04it did go maybe partly because of the
11:07context the Cold War context at the time
11:10you know um just a lot there were a lot
11:11of different cultural factors but what
11:13ended up happening was that you know the
11:16people who were coming in from the
11:18global South ended up getting integrated
11:20into the sort of black white racial
11:23Dynamic that uh had come to dominate
11:25America by that point and um it just you
11:28know black got expanded to people of
11:30color and it became this but the binary
11:33held you know and um and that was a
11:36binary that you know and people find
11:38this really tough to uh process
11:40sometimes because it seems so deeply
11:42rooted at this point but you go back
11:44even to the 40s and in the South there
11:46was always a binary obviously it was
11:48white black but Mo in most of the rest
11:50of the country there was not a binary
11:53you know you had like uh you go to New
11:55York
11:56City in you know 1940
11:59and you had you didn't have whites and
12:01blacks you had Italians Jews Irish
12:04Protestant Catholic uh you know you had
12:07uh just the different groups and they
12:09all interacted with each other in a
12:10multi-polar way it wasn't like this
12:12binary thing and um you know the way
12:15that the South had always sort of had to
12:17approach things has sort of gotten
12:18exported to the rest of the country it's
12:20become this binary uh the the the you
12:24know the the identity options that are
12:27sort of presented to People by Major
12:28instit tions and stuff are uh are
12:31presented in a very binary way to the
12:34point where they're pretty I mean sort
12:36of literally superficial in some fense
12:38well they have to because supposed to
12:40like oh you know I'm an Anglican thir
12:42you know 20 5th Anglican and that my
12:45Parish priest uh was my dad's and my
12:48grandpa's Parish you know what yeah like
12:50all that stuff to solve things that
12:52identities that you can choose are
12:53always superficial like and it doesn't
12:56matter how fervently like you uh believe
12:59it's always going to be sort of like
13:00worn on the surface to a degree like and
13:02that doesn't mean it's not worthwhile
13:05you know um if you don't like if you're
13:08like somebody like me like I just grew
13:10up as a like American mut with no sort
13:12of background you know my people I guess
13:15have been here for a long time but I
13:16don't really know because you know we
13:18didn't keep track of you know people
13:21like two or three generations back
13:23before my parents you know or anything
13:24just like you know I know that my dad's
13:27side came out with the ois from the dust
13:30bow you know my mom's side is just made
13:33up of people literally from like Ireland
13:36to the Balkans to Spain and like to
13:38Germany just all over Europe you know
13:40they kind of crashed into each other
13:42here in America and you know if you just
13:44think about like well how does within a
13:46couple Generations like somebody from
13:49Serbia Ireland England Germany Spain and
13:52Norway which are those are the ancestors
13:54on my mom's side going back a couple
13:56Generations like they all travel over
13:58here in like managed to find each other
14:00and marry off and like you know create a
14:03create a family and part of the answer
14:06to that is like well for a lot of those
14:07people like things obviously didn't go
14:09real well because if they had they
14:12they'd be with their Norwegian Community
14:13they'd be with like you know whoever the
14:15people they came with and so they were
14:17like sort of castoffs and they were kind
14:18of a drift like a lot of people you know
14:20people who go through like periods of
14:24tremendous change like there's always
14:25going to be like castoffs people who
14:27don't like make it through with without
14:29you know sort of fraying at the edges
14:31and then those people find each other
14:33and like try to form some stability and
14:35solidity and get it going again and so
14:37if you're coming from like a background
14:39like that like most Americans are these
14:41days that doesn't mean you shouldn't
14:43adopt an identity that seems meaningful
14:46to you um it's never going to be quite
14:48the same though as uh as something that
14:51was bred into you from the time you were
14:53from the time you were born and uh you
14:56know the people who were bred into an
14:58identity like like that very often what
15:00you find is they feel trapped by it way
15:02too confined you know like um you know
15:05like my wife has this big huge extended
15:08family and I have uh aunts and uncles
15:11cousins like you know grandparents so
15:14like a one degree extended family them I
15:18mean it's like the whole clan like for
15:20every imaginable holiday and birthday or
15:23whatever and most of like her generation
15:25they're like H another event jeez sure
15:28and just love it because I'm like this
15:30is so cool you guys don't know how
15:31awesome this is and uh and you know
15:36that's I mean that's that's sort of the
15:38that's how that's how we get you that's
15:40how American culture gets you you know
15:42it's like that's kind of sort of the
15:43Immigrant sort of uh the difficulty that
15:46immigrants have to go through Coming to
15:48America you know is watching your kids
15:49sort of pull away and become something
15:51you don't recognize over time and then
15:53your grandkids and come to peace with
15:55that as they assimilate into a new
15:57culture but um
16:00uh but yeah so to Circle back on your
16:02original question because I can't help
16:05but do like the Putin thing I guess
16:08where uh you know I think
16:11that the uh the
16:14the the big transition like you know we
16:17went from this we went from this place
16:19where like you start off with America in
16:231800 right and it's pretty much an Anglo
16:26country with a population of slaves in
16:28the south there's like some Dutch
16:30there's some this that or whatever
16:31sprinkled in but really it's like an
16:33Anglo country with uh some black slaves
16:36in the South but within a couple decades
16:39of the
16:40Revolution you know most of the east
16:42coast major cities are majority Irish
16:45majority Catholic not not even
16:46Protestant anymore um you know you have
16:51whole regions of the Northeast that are
16:53really like overtaking and we say like
16:56today Irish and English we're like H
16:58same thing it was not the same thing
17:00back then you know these were people who
17:02like were often often at war with each
17:04other and like uh did not see each other
17:07as as being like close cousins by any
17:09means and uh the people are coming over
17:12from Ireland a lot of them in extreme
17:14turmoil because of the famine uh and
17:16just other you know things that were
17:18going on over there within a generation
17:21of the Irish getting settled they're
17:23getting pushed aside by Eastern Southern
17:26Europeans you know a lot of Italians a
17:28lot of Jews a lot of people from the
17:30Balkans and Poland who were coming in
17:32and that's just sort of the the American
17:35you know people on the right A lot of
17:38times bulk at the idea that we're a
17:39nation of immigrants because they think
17:40that means therefore we should always
17:42let in maximum number of immigrants but
17:44it's just a statement of fact you know
17:46that like we've always had this churn
17:48this demographic
17:49churn and um what you know in other
17:54words we have always been composed of a
17:57population that is in the midst of like
18:00turmoil and transition you know and
18:03going through going through like the
18:05most tremendous change really that we
18:07can really think of you know my
18:09great-grandmother came here from Serbia
18:11when she was seven years old with her
18:1311-year-old brother they were put on a
18:15boat and sent over here with directions
18:17in her brother's pocket for where to
18:19find a relative when they got to New
18:21York okay I mean like that's
18:25unimaginable today right I mean it's
18:27just we couldn't even like think of what
18:29the equivalent would be and so like this
18:31is like just generation after generation
18:34after generation of people you know who
18:37maybe that's kind of an extreme
18:38situation but not by much you know what
18:41I mean and so that's like the American
18:44population for a long period of time and
18:48you know when you get up to around sort
18:51of after World War I you know in the 20s
18:53but but really by the time you get up to
18:55World War II you kind of have this thing
18:58starting to form up that is like you can
19:01call really for the first time in like a
19:03long time maybe since like 1800 going
19:06back where you can look at it and say
19:08this is the American people you know
19:11it's not like some recent group of
19:13people who are like working to
19:14assimilate like they're still not quite
19:16there and you know immigration had been
19:18cut off for a while at that point pretty
19:20much everybody had been there for at
19:21least a generation most people have been
19:23there for two and um you know most
19:27people have gotten there before World
19:28War I so you're talking about 30 years
19:29ago so people you know are they're
19:33Americans now you know even if the older
19:35folks are still speaking Italian at home
19:37their kids are all speaking English
19:39right without an accent and so uh you
19:42have this thing that you can kind of
19:43call the American people the North and
19:45South have kind of World War II really
19:48kind of um helped men those fences you
19:51know you look at like a city like
19:52vickburg after it was conquered in the
19:54Civil War when the Civil War ended
19:57Vicksburg didn't ever celebrate uh the
20:004th of July after that and the first
20:03time that they did
20:04it was Fourth of July 1944 a month after
20:08D-Day because I mean it was just you
20:10know the end of the day um there were
20:13boys over there from the south and boys
20:15over there from the north who were
20:16fighting together and you know it went a
20:18long way toward knitting us together in
20:19that way so you had this period for like
20:23maybe like 20 years or so where people
20:25were yeah like the 40s and 50s you know
20:29uh where people were still like knitted
20:31together into their organic communities
20:33still had the sort of identity Source uh
20:37that nourished them before when they
20:39were split off into like their different
20:41immigrant communities and so forth um
20:44but now it was all sort of built up into
20:46something that was recognizably American
20:49uh and again this is obviously um you
20:51know the the this ended up being the fly
20:54in the ointment the fact that there was
20:55a portion of the population that it did
20:57exclude and that was black people and so
21:00that and that ended up being the sort of
21:02you know the Achilles heel of the whole
21:04project once the cultural revolution
21:06came around but you had that like 20e
21:08period or so that like you know maybe it
21:12ended with Kennedy's assassination or
21:14whatever wherever you want to like
21:16really really put it you know where
21:18people the vibe shifted you know sort of
21:21in an irreparable way
21:24um and you know you start to uh you know
21:29those people that the American people
21:31that you have there um maybe again for
21:34the first time in 1550 years uh you know
21:39had only been had only been glued
21:41together for maybe 20 years or something
21:44and it was not a finished project yet
21:47and when the 1960s came along and you
21:51know whether it was because of again the
21:52move out to the suburbs uh the cultural
21:56revolution just all the different forces
21:58they kind of converged on them it kind
22:00of pulled that fledgling like National
22:03project national identity project apart
22:06and
22:08um today we're sort of you know we're in
22:12this stage now
22:14where uh you know if if you look back at
22:18um like I always think about like uh
22:22Goldwater in 64 and I I told somebody
22:25this the other day they didn't know what
22:26I was talking about at first but then
22:27they got it as I said uh uh Goldwater
22:31was to Nixon and Reagan as Sarah Palin
22:35was to Trump Advance it's like you know
22:37sort of the the like the ripple at the
22:40beginning that like that there's
22:41something out there that's like going to
22:42be representative of this other this
22:45newly forming kind of uh uh political
22:48demography that's going to start
22:50asserting itself you know Goldwater from
22:52Arizona um after this you know after
22:55World War II when the Cold War kicks off
22:58you have this massive expansion of Cold
23:00War Industries in the Sun Belt from
23:02Florida through Texas all the way to
23:04Southern California and so you have like
23:06all these Cold War Industry workers a
23:09lot of tech and you know just cold
23:11warrior types very
23:13Evangelical um conservative people now
23:16in a place where uh you know they they
23:19have some political power and they're
23:22enough of them gathered to like start to
23:25uh to cooperate in that sense but also
23:28because of the Cold War Industries
23:29they've got money and they they can
23:30actually assert themselves
23:32economically and so that starts to
23:34happen' 64 obviously you know nobody was
23:37going to beat uh Kennedy's successor um
23:40but you know Goldwater was there from
23:42Arizona you get Nixon from yor Belinda
23:45down in Southern California you get
23:46Reagan from Southern California and they
23:48very recognizably sort of uh you know
23:52are putting forth like a new sort of
23:54vision of what uh um like the American
23:58right at the time was supposed to be
23:59right it was like uh because the
24:01American right was really set a drift
24:03after the New Deal won its total Victory
24:05you know and it really wasn't until you
24:06got up to like the early 70s that that
24:09really started to change and um you know
24:13that's sort of petered out though I
24:14think obviously like you know the
24:17clintons you call them like you know
24:20moral Abominations and all that kind of
24:22stuff but man they're like ruthlessly
24:24efficient and effective in the sense
24:26that like the first thing Bill Clinton
24:28did when the Soviet Union went down and
24:31the cold war was over is he like very
24:34selectively defunded all the Cold War
24:37Industries in like Orange County and
24:39like all these specific places that were
24:41like strongholds of like uh
24:43republicanism in the Sun Belt and um
24:46very selectively did it and the
24:47Republicans didn't even know what was
24:48going on at the time they just let it
24:50happen but the piece did it end it was
24:52like a political attack but a brilliant
24:54one in a way and so all those places
24:57evaporated and sort of that that Moral
24:59Majority kind of um
25:01Evangelical uh um element of like you
25:06know the the the Conservative Republican
25:08Christian uh that that was so prominent
25:10in the 90s you know um has it sort of
25:14lost its way or lost its lost its
25:18cohesion and its ability to sort of
25:21exert um to exert pressure on people
25:25other than themselves you know people
25:27kind of stop listening
25:29and so everybody was kind of waiting for
25:31something new to form up uh that was
25:34going to represent I mean half the
25:35people in the country who were not
25:37really being represented and uh
25:40obviously we're in that stage now where
25:42those people are trying to find a voice
25:44some of them are really excited some of
25:47them are not too comfortable with the
25:49option that they've been given but
25:50they're riding it because that's what's
25:52there um but it does represent like a
25:55like a real political earthquake you're
25:58seeing it play out very similarly to the
26:01ways that it played out like with Nixon
26:04for example you know where you have uh
26:08like sort of an people think of the
26:09establishment as being like you know
26:12Chuck Schumer or something Chuck Schumer
26:14is a representative for you know the
26:17establishment this is a guy who goes out
26:21in front of a Podium to represent the
26:23interests of the people who are behind
26:25him and uh you know you have a
26:27bureaucratic administrative state that
26:31um is 98% of the government you know the
26:35thing that you learned about on
26:36Schoolhouse Rock is not the government I
26:38mean it exists but like that doesn't
26:40actually do any of the functions of
26:42government on a day-to-day or even like
26:44on a a broader scale basis and so uh you
26:48have this big machine that's back there
26:51that like all machines does what it's
26:53programmed to do and what ours is
26:56programmed to do is you I mean really
26:58like if you think about you know if you
27:00go back to like to to
27:051939 um and look at the federal
27:07government then compare it to the
27:09federal government now and this is after
27:11like six years of New Deal programs
27:13expanding the federal government's
27:15purview and everything in 1939 the
27:17federal government was like 95% smaller
27:20than it is now and
27:22so it and actually it was it was 9 it's
27:26about 95% smaller than it was in 1990
27:29okay and so if you think about it like
27:30that 1990 yeah dang and so you think
27:34about it like that and you realize that
27:3795% of the government virtually the
27:39entire government has grown up in an
27:41environment and and is built for the
27:44specific purpose of fighting global war
27:48like whether it's World War II or the
27:49Cold War like that's what the government
27:51is purpose built to do because it was
27:53the allc consuming mission of the
27:54government during those years and it's
27:56to the you know even things that don't
27:58necessarily seem that way like At first
28:01right if you look at uh the Civil Rights
28:03Movement the Civil Rights act like all
28:05the stuff that was going on back then
28:07that all had a massive Cold War angle
28:09you know you think like Eisenhower was
28:11just like you know
28:12so uh passionate about like you know
28:17Southern schools integrating that he was
28:19going to send the US Army down there
28:20because gosh darn it it's just not fair
28:22no this is a it's a major player on the
28:25world stage Eisen hour knew it was going
28:27on and he was was looking at the
28:29situation of you know the Jim Crow South
28:32and realizing that as we're making a
28:34play for the um for the Loyalty of the
28:37global South the Soviet propaganda is
28:40just writing itself and this is
28:41something we got to fix and so we
28:42created a giant civil rights bureaucracy
28:45to fix that and there was a major Cold
28:47War angle to it obviously there people
28:49involved who were not looking at it from
28:51that that way but like I think the uh
28:54would those people who were just
28:56concerned with the Justice of the
28:57situation and all that have uh have won
29:02such a total Victory if they didn't have
29:04like the big you know the senior Bond
29:06holders who were concerned with the Cold
29:08War like on their side probably not you
29:10know and so everything is sort of built
29:12for that and we kind of find ourselves
29:15in a world now where you know this is
29:17kind of changing again uh but but we
29:20find ourselves in a world where we have
29:22a a massive state bureaucracy that's
29:25purpose-built for global war without a
29:28credible enemy uh you know to to turn it
29:31on and
29:33um you know obviously I mean the the
29:36next sentence kind of is everybody's
29:38already thinking it themselves you go
29:40find one you know you go create one and
29:43unfortunately uh radical Islam didn't
29:45really prove up to the task um and so
29:49we're trying to find new ones now yeah
29:51Eric Prince wrote that article and I am
29:55yeah too big to fail yeah too big to
29:56fail but the had a great no it was I
29:59don't think it was that one it was the
30:00Ben Brad interview so the one before
30:02where uh he described like he said we
30:04used to we used to fight Wars of of
30:07Extinction now we fight Wars of
30:09convenience uh I think
30:11it's this way you're describing yeah I
30:14mean it's an interesting thing right
30:16because like if you go back to uh World
30:19War II I think we called up like 16
30:21million men and this was the population
30:25back then was what it was like 160
30:27million I mean so like you're literally
30:29talking about like 25% of the male popul
30:3240% of the military age male population
30:36that's put in uniform and whether they
30:39went to war you like combat or not like
30:41still they they were called up from
30:44their normal lives put in uniform and
30:45they went and did this and then they
30:47came back and so you get to 1950 and
30:51it's like you can't throw a quarter on
30:54the street without hitting at least a
30:57relative of
30:58right like everybody knows somebody who
31:01knows somebody at least who wore the
31:03uniform and since then you I mean like
31:07and and there's been like you know
31:09people have done studies on this that
31:11like every generation that goes by the
31:13military is becoming like a specialized
31:15cast where like you have uh somebody was
31:18in the military and you say do you know
31:20anybody in the military and they're like
31:21oh yeah my dad my grandpa all my uncles
31:23two of my cousins and such and such and
31:26then you go to this person over here and
31:28say do you know a single person in the
31:30military no I've never met one and there
31:33are two totally different worlds and so
31:36it's almost like a family business you
31:38know in in and it's becoming a sort of
31:42cast in that sense and so there's a big
31:45disconnect between uh you know the warf
31:48Fighters and especially nowadays I mean
31:50it's just because you know we're past
31:53that point
31:54where um you know I guess there's
31:57there's a lot of reasons for this but
31:58like we're not fighting Wars where we
32:00got to put 10 million men in the field
32:02anymore um I kind of doubt we probably
32:06probably will get to that point honestly
32:09like I you know everybody's kind of like
32:10wondering when the next like World War
32:12II will happen or something I don't
32:14think there'll be another War like that
32:16for the next thousand years I I really
32:18don't I think we might have a nuclear
32:20war but in terms of just you know Mass
32:24mobilization when you say a war like
32:26that what do you mean I mean that um uh
32:29where you have a bunch of states that
32:31for sustained periods of time organize
32:33themselves exclusively for the purpose
32:36of war and and go at it with their
32:40resources and populations like you know
32:42uh as we did in like World War II
32:45because I mean that's like you know the
32:47the if if you go back to
32:50like
32:511500 not even that go back to like Louis
32:54the 14th right Louis the 14th
32:58massively powerful Monarch you know the
33:01Sun King like pretty much bankrupted his
33:04country like just so he could like fight
33:06his Wars and expand his power and
33:08Splendor and all these things like just
33:10the the most glorious Monarch of the
33:13time right and yet his ability to like
33:16reach down into a French Village and
33:19like control the way people live their
33:21lives or let alone what they thought or
33:24said or whatever it was non-existent I
33:27mean he just didn't have the resources
33:28to do anything like that because at the
33:29end of the day the state was much much
33:31much smaller thing you know and it could
33:35organize itself for war un certain
33:37instances but even then like I mean
33:39compared to what we started to see a
33:41little bit later on when the nation
33:42state formed it's just totally different
33:44world and when you start to see like and
33:47and me personally like I kind of I'm I'm
33:50sort of a technological determinist when
33:52it comes to this particular Dynamic you
33:54know I think as War fighting technology
33:56starts to change
33:58political systems have to change with it
34:01um and you know you get to a place
34:04where um you know the the military
34:09technology dictates that you need to be
34:10able to put like two million men in the
34:12field the nation state is the only thing
34:15really that's going to allow you to do
34:16something like that and so when the
34:18nation state starts to form up and
34:20become you know it was one of those
34:22things that like once it's started to
34:24form up in some places everybody had to
34:26follow along because it was the only
34:28design at the time that could compete
34:30right I mean at the end of the day like
34:32only a nation state could put you know
34:35three armies of two million men each
34:37like on the Eastern front or something
34:39only the nation state could field like
34:41fleets of bombers and battleships and so
34:43forth that you had to have if you were
34:45going to compete at the Apex level you
34:47know at that time and um and so the
34:52nation state is sort of finding its way
34:54and knitting itself together and you get
34:57up to like World War I and I would say
35:00that was honestly probably like the real
35:02Apex but World War II like you know we
35:05were more little more industrialized and
35:07so forth but I mean both of those Wars
35:09take them as a whole and I mean it's
35:11absolutely incredible just the level to
35:13which the countries that were involved
35:16were able
35:17to mobilize their whole society for War
35:21I mean their every Factory every mine
35:24every just the entire economy the
35:26society itself
35:28you go back like you know in in World
35:30War I England had like the women back
35:33home running around with white feathers
35:35like to like shame the men who weren't
35:37going so they were like enlisting them
35:39in a way you know the entire Society was
35:41mobilized for war something that was
35:43just never possible before right but the
35:46masan state had kind of reached its apex
35:49level of efficiency like real like high
35:51level
35:52efficiency and when World War II gets
35:55over and we've got nuclear weapons all
35:57all of a sudden we're in this very
35:58strange place where we have these uh
36:01these gigantic institutions the nation
36:04state um that are hyper efficient and
36:08just hyper militarized and Ready for War
36:11but none of whom can fight each other
36:13right and so you start to see this
36:15transition during the Cold War from open
36:19Warfare to subversive Warfare to
36:22information Warfare kind of becomes the
36:24dominant uh form in a lot of ways like I
36:26mean not to downplay like the tragedy of
36:29things like Vietnam and Korea and all
36:31that obviously but uh but those
36:35were sides shows for the Cold War
36:38belligerant they weren't sesh shows for
36:39the Koreans obviously but for you know
36:42um the Soviet Union and the United
36:44States and NATO and the Warsaw pack like
36:46they were just theaters you know to play
36:48out uh uh these conflicts to drain
36:51resources or win propaganda victories
36:53over the other side like that's really
36:55what they were for and um
36:58and so you know you start to see this
37:01massive expansion of intelligence
37:03agencies and an expansion of their um of
37:07their role in uh promulgating like
37:10propaganda and misinformation and all of
37:13these things that you know at the time
37:15you could kind of control because
37:18there's three networks and Walter KRON
37:20kite's kind of in on the deal and like
37:22you know kind of deal with that but um
37:25but it's still even back then it started
37:26to confuse people you know and started
37:29to pollute the information environment
37:30in a way that uh that made it more
37:32difficult for people to um to to to you
37:36know form strong idea about what what
37:38was really going on and
37:41um and so you know the the uh I think
37:45that that's another realm where um you
37:49know we're sort of living out the
37:51apotheosis of that transition where you
37:54know information Warfare has become
37:58you know it it's not like it's the end
38:00all Beall because we see like in Ukraine
38:04right now like at the end of the day
38:06when all the propaganda has been put out
38:09and all the words have been spoken
38:11sometimes you just got to fight and so
38:13that still exists at like the bottom
38:15layer um but the general way that that
38:20uh competition takes place between uh
38:24major institutions now and the nation
38:26state being the still being the biggest
38:27although it's on the decline um is is
38:30information Warfare
38:33so I
38:35mean yeah the sort of underneath all
38:38this you still have still have people
38:40right U people people are the same so
38:43like I I think we're seeing it something
38:46I've been somewhat paying attention to
38:48is what's going on in in uh England
38:51right now with the uh protests and so in
38:54the arc that you've described you kind
38:56of at least people seem to believe that
38:59we reach this a but you know the whole
39:00end of History you get to uh where're a
39:04point where everybody can regardless of
39:07where you come from you can be smooshed
39:10together into a peaceful loving
39:12harmonious Society regardless of
39:15background we've sort of ended global
39:17war and uh all that stuff of course
39:20doesn't go away uh so yeah what do you
39:24make of something like what's going on
39:25in England
39:27res you know surfacing in the midst of
39:30this uh apotheosis of liberal modernity
39:34and of History yeah well I mean look
39:37it's
39:41um you have to start with the fact that
39:44again to go back to like uh Louis the
39:4614th you know or just pick your whoever
39:50the most powerful English king was um
39:53they would never have dared to bring in
39:57[Music]
39:58uh a bunch of people from the southern
40:02hemisphere from 10,000 miles away and
40:05place them in like one of their peasant
40:07Villages and just you know dis literally
40:11like make the people who were previously
40:12living in that town or Village like a
40:15minority there they would just never
40:16have dared to do that nobody would have
40:19and then said that by virtue of these
40:21people being the same location they're
40:22English well right yeah then there's
40:24that right and so like so just the the
40:27sort ort of we have to we have to
40:30understand first like the unprecedented
40:32nature of what's been going on you know
40:34the idea that like you know it's one
40:37thing if like uh if you have a country
40:39take like England or any any of these
40:40European countries that are sort of
40:42facing this demographic change and the
40:43tension that comes with it right it
40:45would be one thing if like over the last
40:48eight Generations just each generation
40:52of English people English leaders and so
40:54forth they just they were bringing
40:56people in from all over the Empire and
40:58doing it in this way that like now it's
41:00led up to the point where London is
41:03majority non-english and pretty soon all
41:05of England is going to be majority
41:06non-english you could look at that and
41:08say well look the the English people
41:10made that decision you know it's been
41:12going on for eight Generations they have
41:14done this generation after generation
41:16but that's not what happened in any of
41:19these places just like you know
41:21immigration's obviously a different
41:23thing here in America but with the
41:25culture in general just a lot of other
41:27things
41:28it's one generation that just decided
41:31you know that we're going to do this we
41:33don't care what anybody that came before
41:34us thinks or says we don't care what
41:36anybody that comes after US thinks or
41:38says about it uh we're just going to
41:40radically tr and irretrievably transform
41:43this country in a way that I mean if you
41:46just think about like you know the the
41:49very idea especially in a democratic
41:51country quote unquote but still that's
41:53the idea uh if you were to tell people
41:57that we're going to make a policy change
42:00that is going to make the descendants of
42:02all the people who live here right now a
42:04minority in this place in like 50 years
42:08or like 60 years that's insane I mean
42:10that's an insane thing right and so for
42:13us in America it's sort of like again
42:16like to go back to what I was talking
42:17about at the beginning you know it's
42:19we've always had this sort of
42:20demographic turmoil insur and it's like
42:23it's not quite the same although you
42:24know obviously it's different when
42:26they're coming from from non-Christian
42:27parts of the World and places that are
42:30very culturally uh different you know
42:32there's there's some of that still yeah
42:34but as a younger country like certainly
42:36yeah you're in a country that was
42:37started by folks
42:39leaving tensions in Europe right like
42:43people people think about like the uh
42:46you know 1798 Naturalization Act and it
42:48says all free white persons of good
42:51character can come become citizens of
42:53the United States and you have a lot of
42:55people like on the dissident right and
42:56stuff point to that and they're like see
42:58like white country or whatever and it's
43:00like dude like yeah it does like it says
43:04that sure but like it's literally the
43:06opposite spirit that that was written
43:09what you think about it today like it
43:10was like you go back to 1798 and they're
43:14saying that any European can come over
43:17to the United States and become a full
43:19citizen in our democracy with full
43:21rights and privileges that go with that
43:22anybody in it was like radically
43:25inclusionary right to a point where like
43:27nobody ever heard of anything like that
43:28before it was crazy and like they said
43:31white persons because they didn't want
43:34different states like gaming the system
43:36by like uh bringing their Native
43:38American black populations in as
43:40Citizens but not really giving them
43:41rights but getting you know
43:43congressional seats for it or whatever
43:44they want that happening so they put
43:46that in there they weren't thinking like
43:48we have to exclude people from you know
43:50Zambia just for the simple reason that
43:52it was inconceivable that we would
43:54import a bunch of people from Zambia it
43:56just never would have occurred
43:58and so like but it was radically
43:59inclusionary from the very beginning and
44:01people on the right sometimes have
44:03trouble processing that it wasn't just
44:05like you know uh like when the Irish
44:08came in the Wasps who were here before
44:10were horrified what they were watching I
44:12mean they were absolutely horrified you
44:14had these people coming in from like the
44:16country you know and it's like they're
44:19Hicks you know that way yeah from their
44:20own countries they Hicks yeah and it's
44:23like and and again like you go back to
44:24like when the ois came out of California
44:27dude they everybody hated them like
44:29there there were like a bunch of like
44:31you know poor Southern agricultural like
44:35migrant workers who would come out
44:37living in tent cities outside of Selenas
44:40or you know
44:41Sacramento and um just there the the the
44:44tent cities were chaos drunk you know a
44:48lot of just filthy you know people would
44:51wander out and go rob your house
44:52sometimes you know and I'm not like
44:54casting shade these are my people on one
44:56side of my family
44:57but like uh but they hated them you know
44:59and uh the same when like a lot of the
45:01hillbillies went up to the midwestern
45:03cities like Detroit and stuff they had a
45:05huge like backlash against them so
45:07that's just normal and
45:09natural and um you know the people today
45:11who think like that uh when you know you
45:15watch gangs in New York or something
45:17like that that that's just sort of like
45:18a you know um that was real conflict I
45:22mean they weren't just fighting in the
45:24streets because like you know we're
45:25violent gangs and want to fight you or
45:27whatever they like they thought their
45:29country was being destroyed by these
45:31Irish people that's what they thought
45:33and then when you got up to the lady
45:35that's the point right here like yeah
45:37yeah and then you get up to like the
45:38late 1800s it was the same thing you had
45:40like Italians getting lynched you had
45:42like people thought that the Jews and
45:43the Italians and the new people that
45:45were coming in were destroying the
45:46country like that's what they thought
45:48and that's what they wrote and yeah
45:50there were Christians they were
45:51Europeans and all that but at the time
45:54people saw them as radically foreign and
45:56incred destructive to like what we'
45:58built right so in that sense like what
46:02we're going through now is May it's it's
46:05I I'll buy the idea that it's like a
46:07sort of a Starker and more extreme
46:09version of it when you're dealing with
46:11non-christians and when you have like
46:12the sort of post 1960s racial binary
46:15that everybody's kind of broken into
46:17I'll buy that but still here in America
46:20like we've always just been subject to
46:22that's just every single generation is
46:24like you know demographic war with the
46:27newcomers and then a generation later
46:29those newcomers are part of the native
46:31population and they join the war against
46:33the next wave I mean that is just how
46:35it's been over in Europe it's like all
46:38these countries like you go back to like
46:421980 and it's like 95% English people in
46:46England like if if not more than that
46:48you you go to Norway or Sweden any of
46:50these places it's like 98% Swedish
46:53people not just white people Swedish
46:55people right and so these changes that
46:58are coming on them are happening
47:01incredibly quickly they've they're
47:04changing something that's been the same
47:06for centuries you know where you
47:09actually have like a rooted National
47:10Community with like a sense of having
47:12formed itself out of the you know out
47:15out of the churning kind of chaos sea of
47:18Europe over the years you know and
47:20they're watching this being taken away
47:22from them in one generation by policy
47:26choice you know this is not like you
47:29know if you live in
47:32uh you know if you're from Spain and uh
47:36people just the boats are coming Camp of
47:38the Saints style like across jalter and
47:40they're just sort of coming in and like
47:42you can look at that as like all right
47:44that's the Goths coming in that's the uh
47:46you know like all these migrant
47:47invasions throughout history that like
47:49you just kind of got to deal with most
47:52of these European countries this is a
47:53policy Choice it's an ideologically
47:55driven policy choice and there there
47:58again to go back to like the the the
48:02real it it only the only reason it
48:05doesn't sound completely insane to
48:08people today is just because you know
48:10we're kind of used to it at this point
48:12but like the idea that like English
48:15people are currently on track to become
48:18a minority in England within like a
48:20couple
48:21decades is insane I mean it's completely
48:25insane you know and I put this TW out
48:27like kind of tongue and cheek I guess I
48:29don't know probably not I guess like a
48:32lot of times I put things out tongue and
48:33cheek and then I think about it I'm like
48:35no I guess I was in Earnest whereas like
48:38my default and I'm not saying you should
48:40go like burn down a Pakistani store or
48:42something obviously if you do that
48:43you're just a h you're a hood like
48:46regardless of what the cause is like
48:48you're just a hoodlum and you're a you
48:50know I that's a different question to me
48:53um but at the end of the day like my
48:55bias is if I'm watching a video and
48:58there's a bunch of English people saying
49:01England for the English and they're in
49:03London and across the street there's a
49:05bunch of people saying Allahu abbar I
49:08think that the English are the good guys
49:09and I don't really need to know much
49:10else about it and if I see a video you
49:14know in in Riad and it's a bunch of like
49:16Saudi you know Arabs on one side of the
49:18street saying Arabia for the Arabians
49:20and a bunch of British dudes on the
49:22other side of the street saying you know
49:24bring the cross or whatever I'd be like
49:26I think maybe the uh Saudis probably are
49:28winning this round you know in like in
49:31the sense of like you know uh that's
49:34just my bias I mean you know it just
49:37seems like again like one of the things
49:40I think that that people can always
49:42benefit from
49:44is you know try to step back and like
49:47like there are so many things something
49:48like this that if you just step back
49:51like a little bit from it you realize
49:53it's completely insane and it's only not
49:56insane if like you're you know just like
49:58if you're you're reading you've been
50:00reading the Harry Potter books and
50:02you're in like the middle of the fifth
50:03book and you're reading it right now and
50:06you're into it and it's like magic
50:08doesn't seem so insane because this is
50:10the world you're in and it's kind of
50:11like what you're sucked into and d and
50:13then you put the book down and it's like
50:15oh it's you know that's the only like
50:18domain in which it's not insane is these
50:20books I have right here but we're sort
50:22of sucked into that all the time through
50:24the media environment and everything to
50:26the point where you know it a lot of
50:28this stuff has been normalized
50:31that um that is truly like truly
50:35historically unprecedented you know
50:37there have been like demographic
50:39Transformations by force you know that
50:41where you talk about like uh the Goths
50:43and the Roman Empire things like that
50:45but the idea of a country's Elites um
50:48just reaching out into radically
50:51different like cultures and bring them
50:53in to overwhelm and displace the native
50:56people the the country that they're
50:57supposed to be ruling is insane and and
51:02I this will probably I don't want to you
51:03guys can edit this out if you want I
51:04guess if you want this to be able to be
51:06played in England without getting
51:07arrested next time you go there uh but
51:11if something like that is happening I
51:13mean the
51:14people I'll just I mean this is you can
51:16edit this out if you want the people are
51:19100% morally politically whatever angle
51:22you want to talk about it from they are
51:24Justified and reacting violently to that
51:26I mean they're losing their homes
51:28they're having their homes taken from
51:30them again like you know by government
51:33policy which means by violence you know
51:35the the all get all libertarian and gay
51:39here but like all government policy is
51:41backed by violence at the end of it as
51:43we're seeing right now like the people
51:45who are objecting to this you know even
51:46online are getting thrown in jail um if
51:49you pray silently if you saw that video
51:51is insane unbelievable it's totally
51:53insane and it's like you know okay well
51:56can say like well that's not you know
51:58there's nothing violent that happened be
52:00like well okay what if they didn't
52:01consent to being arrested what if they
52:03said I haven't done anything wrong I'm
52:04not going with you well yes you are well
52:06no I'm not well they're going to get as
52:08violent as they have to with you in
52:10order to make you comply and if that
52:11means like you really want to push it
52:13they'll kill you that's what it means
52:15again that's my end of gay libertarian
52:17RM but like you know it is backed by
52:20violence like that so you can say by
52:22violence these people are being
52:23displaced from their homes and uh you
52:28know and and being
52:30done by a very narrow like um
52:34socioeconomic and ideological class of
52:37people who know that the people they're
52:40doing this to do not want it and they've
52:43known it for decades and they're doing
52:45it anyway and in a lot of for a lot of
52:47them they're doing it with malice in
52:49their hearts they're doing it because
52:51those people deserve it in their eyes
52:53you know and you something you've seen
52:55here in America too like in you know I
52:57always I did um one of my Series where I
52:59T or one of my episodes where I talked a
53:01lot about John Lindsay the mayor of New
53:03York back in the late 60s early 70s who
53:05I look at like who I look at as like the
53:08he's the guy who um the term limousine
53:10liberal was invented for he was a
53:13republican he eventually switched over
53:15but like uh he was somebody he was like
53:17a you know he he wasn't even like he
53:20didn't grow up super Elite it was kind
53:22of like middle to upper middle class but
53:24he adopted like he became an elite wasp
53:27and just the the the emblematic elite
53:31wasp right like of the East Coast
53:33establishment he just he looked apart he
53:35just everything absorbed into him like
53:37that idea and he looked on like the
53:40ethnics in Queens and you know Brooklyn
53:42and these people who were protesting
53:44against like the changes in their
53:46neighborhoods you know that were taking
53:47place as like the blacks and the Puerto
53:49Ricans were coming in and changing
53:51things he just looked at those people as
53:54you know um all right we had to deal
53:56with uh the Confederacy we had to deal
53:59with the Germans in World War II um and
54:03now we got to deal with you people like
54:04that you know just this you know just
54:07this pervasive moral evil that uh this
54:11this pervasive moral stain that the
54:13people like John Lindsay and the whole
54:16class of people that he identifies with
54:19class of people who have been ruling all
54:20Western countries you know in the
54:22postwar era um who derive their sense of
54:26self-identity from the fact that we are
54:28better than those people and those
54:29people are bad and we're not like them
54:32and um and that drives a I mean you see
54:35it a lot on you know thank goodness for
54:36Twitter just for the fact that like if
54:38nothing else you get to see uh you get
54:41to see those feelings put on display by
54:44people who are in like high positions
54:47who you know if they if the only way we
54:50heard them before was you know a a f
54:53minute spot on cable TV they would never
54:56dare let that feeling leak but they
54:58can't help themselves on Twitter because
55:00we're all just impulsive ridiculous
55:02creatures on Twitter and so you see it
55:04like and you're like oh wow like this uh
55:07this this editorial writer for the New
55:09York Times like actually hates my guts
55:13like they actually like really hate me
55:16and like they hate my family and it's
55:18like wow that's crazy and then you
55:20realize that you know when you see that
55:23often enough and you see it as con
55:26concentrated as it is in like a certain
55:28class of people and the people who
55:29aspire to that class um and that those
55:32are the people who have been running our
55:33societies for you know really since
55:35since the end of the second world war um
55:40a lot of this stuff is being done with
55:42not just carelessness but with malice
55:44and so you know the people in England uh
55:48you know it look it's tough right
55:50because here here's the thing and I tell
55:52this to people Charles and I talk we
55:55already about this all time he thinks
55:57the revolution's coming baby like one of
55:59these days and I always tell him like he
56:02he's the best and I hope it does happen
56:04if it does then you know I'll I'll
56:06consent to being one of his lieutenants
56:08and accept his command Network yeah yeah
56:11I I'll uh you know I'll kneel and and uh
56:14accept my place in the lower officer
56:17tier and uh but you know I always tell
56:20him like you know you don't have an
56:23uprising like that um in a society that
56:27is just completely socially disorganized
56:29the way ours is it's like okay what
56:32movement are you going to go join like
56:34you don't even know your neighbor's
56:36first name and so you don't have anybody
56:40around that you trust really trust like
56:42trust like you know that is this person
56:46GNA be okay with being given a 20-year
56:48sentence and not turning me in for like
56:51being you know involved with this or
56:52something like do I trust them that much
56:55you don't know anybody like that you
56:56don't have a single person in your life
56:58most likely that you feel that way about
57:01maybe like a couple family me but that's
57:03it and so the idea that you have like
57:05whole communities of people that could
57:07be organized for resistance like it's
57:09just not in the cards like you have to
57:11build that social capital for anything
57:14remotely over Generations over
57:16generations and and you know the ironic
57:20thing about it is you could say that
57:22like that's the only way that like real
57:25resistance especially violent resistance
57:27to the regime would be possible but the
57:29thing is if you did build that over
57:31Generations violent resistance would be
57:32unnecessary you know that's really the
57:35the thing and like uh and so the people
57:38in England like I look over there and
57:40I'm
57:41like you know I sympathize with these
57:44people these people who uh you know
57:48again it is it's just it's different
57:49from being an American you know an
57:52American like you can love your country
57:54you can like we feel these things like
57:57emotions National emotions just like
57:59everybody else but man it's I I just
58:02think it's just not quite the same as
58:04like an Englishman watching England be
58:06turned over to people from South Asia
58:08it's just not the same and like I
58:10sympathize with them 100% um I won't say
58:14a s like again like I like I said
58:18earlier like you know the guy who goes
58:20and like burns down a Pakistani store
58:22like that's just a shitty guy like a bad
58:24guy that we should all condemn and I
58:25won't take take that back but at the
58:27same time like I don't even want to say
58:28that about them because these people are
58:30in a position of extreme desperation
58:33where they ancestral Homeland is going
58:35to be permanently taken from
58:38them that's like the worst thing that
58:40can happen you know what I mean that's
58:42not
58:43like uh something that's like you know
58:46we lost this war or we had an economic
58:49collapse or whatever it's the worst
58:51thing that can happen is you have a
58:53people the English people who who are no
58:56longer going to have like a little spot
58:58of the earth that they can develop and
59:02work out their own Community culture and
59:04ideas like they're just not going to
59:06have that anymore and it's the worst
59:08thing that can happen and if those
59:09people you know uh anything that they
59:13feel they need to do in order to stop
59:16that process from happening I'm not I'm
59:19not prone to criticize them I'm just not
59:22you know and um there are ways that I
59:25think are better and worse and I think
59:27like on an individual level you know if
59:29you're an English dude out
59:31protesting you know and you're my friend
59:34and you're like let's go beat up that
59:35Pakistani whatever and be like no you're
59:38not going to do that like that's bad but
59:41in terms of like watching in the
59:42aggregate like the way people are
59:44responding to this
59:45crisis I'm just not I'm just not really
59:48prone to criticize however they feel
59:52they need to you know approach that I
59:55mean
59:57because it really I mean again like you
59:58know it's just the the the gravity of
1:00:01what's going on and the thing is is
1:00:02people would get it they do get it when
1:00:05we're talking about
1:00:06Palestine that's the thing like
1:00:08everybody you know all the people who
1:00:09are just so aass you know like at least
1:00:12half the people who are so aass to what
1:00:14the English people are doing you know
1:00:16they look over they'll justify Hamas
1:00:18some of them but all of them justify
1:00:20like the sort of rock throwing like you
1:00:23know uh resistance in the West Bank and
1:00:25stuff because people look at that and
1:00:27they're like these people are having
1:00:28their home taken from them like what are
1:00:30they supposed to do just you know just
1:00:33watch it happen and so people do get it
1:00:35in other contexts if people like if if
1:00:38if all of a sudden the Chinese
1:00:41government made a just a policy change
1:00:45and started importing people from Africa
1:00:47and other parts of the world into these
1:00:49places so that Beijing and these other
1:00:51major cities and eventually the whole
1:00:53country Han Chinese were going to be a
1:00:55minority in like
1:00:56you know 50 years we'd be like holy
1:00:59they've lost their minds like this is
1:01:01insane the leadership class over there
1:01:03has lost its mind and it's like their
1:01:06people there are under attack by their
1:01:07leadership class like that's the way we
1:01:09would see it because that's the only way
1:01:11to see it but here we're you know we're
1:01:14we're in the middle of it and in the
1:01:16west we're all traumatized by what we
1:01:18think happened in World War I and we're
1:01:22traumatized by what we think and are
1:01:25told you know the history of colonialism
1:01:27was all about and all these kind of
1:01:29things and plus we're just Christians
1:01:31and we're nice people and we don't want
1:01:32to be mean and rude to other people we
1:01:34want to be open welcoming and accepting
1:01:37and so you know we are very
1:01:39uncomfortable pushing back on any of
1:01:42this stuff even I mean even rhetorically
1:01:44people are uncomfortable
1:01:45with well I just say real quick on that
1:01:48topic how did the English go from Just
1:01:52tring Around the World in 0 days again
1:01:54childhood favorite but
1:01:56English guys in a in a you know in a pub
1:02:00in England not a pub but you know Club
1:02:03saying hey I bet I could go Around the
1:02:04World in 80 Days we own most of the
1:02:06world it'll be great like very robust
1:02:09English
1:02:10to a hundred years
1:02:12later uh self- imaing bringing in
1:02:16immigrants he saw the you guys see the
1:02:18video of the English policeman with the
1:02:20Muslims behind him looked like a hostage
1:02:23situation of him saying so I'm
1:02:27we love the Muslims and like how do you
1:02:29go from that to that in 100
1:02:32years I
1:02:34mean there's a lot there's a lot of
1:02:36factors involved first of all um
1:02:39great part part of it is this like you
1:02:42know one of the things that happened in
1:02:44uh if you go back to World War I right
1:02:49there were uh a lot of the countries on
1:02:53that on tant side in Europe putting
1:02:56forth all this propaganda to motivate
1:02:59their people about how you know we need
1:03:01to save Freedom save the Free World from
1:03:04you know this authoritarian you know uh
1:03:07violent German State and so forth and
1:03:09you know we need to make the world safe
1:03:11for democracy it's all about National
1:03:13self-determination these Germans are
1:03:14trying to take people's
1:03:15self-determination away from them and so
1:03:17forth and so on and people bought into
1:03:20it and they went and they fought the War
1:03:22and they won World War I and then the
1:03:24war ended and all that propaganda went
1:03:27away but the ideas didn't go away those
1:03:29were too firmly planted in people's
1:03:31heads and so all of a sudden they're
1:03:32like wait National self-determination
1:03:34well that's what the people here in this
1:03:36colony of ours are asking for so maybe
1:03:38I'm not so comfortable with that anymore
1:03:42and you know that there were that those
1:03:44were the cracks in the foundation that
1:03:46eventually like kind of brought that
1:03:47down and so you and then so when you get
1:03:49into the Cold War World War II and the
1:03:51Cold War you just have like Decades of
1:03:54this of like propaganda that is really
1:03:57like the real purpose of it was to say
1:04:00um you know the Soviets who are telling
1:04:02all these postcolonial countries and the
1:04:04global South in general and all these
1:04:07uncommitted countries around the world
1:04:08that you know what they're you got to
1:04:10think about this right from the
1:04:12perspective of the people at the time
1:04:14and just how easy the Soviet
1:04:16propagandist job was right like we uh
1:04:20the Americans and British and so forth
1:04:22we're Allied to all the old Colonial
1:04:24countries right so all of you in the
1:04:26global South who you know are really
1:04:29like mad at the British the French no
1:04:31matter who it is the Portuguese the
1:04:32Dutch whoever it is the Americans are
1:04:34Allied to them and that's one side of it
1:04:37right and so World War II ends we're
1:04:40here we want to liberate you from these
1:04:42people you have a National Liberation
1:04:43movement fantastic here's all the money
1:04:45and guns we can send you and everything
1:04:47that's what we're about what are the
1:04:49Americans do why no sooner did the
1:04:52Vietnamese like free themselves from the
1:04:54French boot until the Americans showed
1:04:56up to try to like put it back down on
1:04:57their neck and like that propaganda
1:05:00again just writes itself and so a huge
1:05:03amount of like the propaganda we were
1:05:05putting out and eventually the policies
1:05:06that we took up I mean a lot of like the
1:05:09impetus we kind of talked about this
1:05:11earlier but like really like a lot of
1:05:12the impetus for ending Jim Crow in the
1:05:14South was like people who were in the
1:05:17major power positions and like
1:05:19decision-making positions for the Cold
1:05:20War were like we cannot have this like
1:05:23we cannot like go over to to uh you know
1:05:27Ghana and tell them why they should be
1:05:29on our side when half of our country is
1:05:31still in like basically an apartheid
1:05:33state we just this is you know we're
1:05:35getting killed out here and so you know
1:05:39a lot of it was like again similar to
1:05:41the World War I propaganda was sort of
1:05:43driven by world events and uh and and
1:05:47became real you know in a way it became
1:05:49like the way people thought about things
1:05:51and it was something that was really
1:05:52like meant as weaponized propaganda to
1:05:55to help help us in that conflict but it
1:05:57became real and um now people could ask
1:06:01uh you
1:06:02know why did it take root so easily and
1:06:05that could have a lot of answers you
1:06:06know I mean because it's not just this
1:06:09is one factor that I'm talking about you
1:06:11know there's a lot of people that are
1:06:12going to want to say that it started
1:06:14with the enlightenment it's liberalism
1:06:16it's Christianity even um Protestant
1:06:19Reformation right yeah and I mean
1:06:21honestly like all of those you can if
1:06:23you're clever enough you can argue all
1:06:25those points probably pretty effectively
1:06:28you know like uh I saw somebody on X the
1:06:31other day who um who I follow who um
1:06:36somebody had said like you know it's one
1:06:38of these dorky like uh liberal
1:06:41Evangelical preacher types just
1:06:43intolerable you know people that make
1:06:46you want to pull your hair out and they
1:06:47go online to be the fery like uh you
1:06:51know pounding his chest and you know
1:06:54thanking the Lord that he's not like
1:06:55this tax collector over here and he's
1:06:57saying you cannot be a Christian and a
1:07:01racist and the guy that I was following
1:07:04posted that and he's like oh he says
1:07:06some some like flippant comment about uh
1:07:09you know slavery being okay in the Bible
1:07:12or whatever as a way of saying yes you
1:07:13can essentially or that that's not a
1:07:15good point but I mean look that is a
1:07:17totally valid point and like in the Raw
1:07:20sense yeah you can't like there's a
1:07:21reason that the very first convert to
1:07:24Christianity in the book of Acts was an
1:07:27Ethiopian unic they didn't just like
1:07:30pick that randomly like there's a
1:07:32there's a hard message in there that
1:07:34like you know the Foreigner even the the
1:07:37most degraded and radical Foreigner
1:07:40which to them at the time would have
1:07:41been like a kushite you know and a and a
1:07:44unic so somebody that you have no uh
1:07:47respect for is a man who's from a
1:07:49culture is radically different than
1:07:50yours that's your brother like that's
1:07:52one of the first messages like that
1:07:55takes place after the crucifixions like
1:07:57one of the first things that happens and
1:08:00it gets the whole ball rolling and you
1:08:01can't get away from that the fact is one
1:08:03of the thing you know I got into a
1:08:06debate with um well first uh laf Lee and
1:08:09I had a conversation that we we took
1:08:11down as a dialogue in I'm 1776 about
1:08:15American identity and Heritage and so
1:08:17forth and there were a couple people
1:08:19Scott Greer was one of them who thought
1:08:21that we just sort of had evaded uh the
1:08:25idea of talking about race right and the
1:08:27importance of like whiteness in the
1:08:30history of America and stuff and Lee and
1:08:32I we weren't evading it we just you know
1:08:34we were talking about what we thought
1:08:35mattered but we were like all right
1:08:36let's bring these guys in we'll do a
1:08:38followup and they can make their case
1:08:39and and we'll make ours you know one of
1:08:42the things I kept coming back to I don't
1:08:44even remember if I actually got to this
1:08:46in the dialogue because the other two
1:08:48guys like took up like nine out of 11
1:08:50pages and so I just like eventually let
1:08:52him hold the floor but you know the
1:08:54thing I told him after ws and we were
1:08:56discussing it is I was like dude if you
1:08:58think that you're going to get uh white
1:09:02guy random white guy over here sitting
1:09:04in a church pew to turn on the darker
1:09:07skinned person sitting in the Pew next
1:09:09to them because of some racial identity
1:09:13that you know you've concocted and think
1:09:15is important that you're trying that's
1:09:17never going to happen that is never
1:09:18going to happen that guy if he's any
1:09:21kind of Christian whatsoever is never
1:09:23going to turn on that guy for you ever
1:09:25and so there is something to that you
1:09:27know the Christian idea that makes it so
1:09:29that it is more difficult for a
1:09:31Christian and I don't mean more diff
1:09:33like I don't mean that
1:09:35it's more difficult like in terms of uh
1:09:39like ground truth like to reconcile with
1:09:42ground truth but more difficult like in
1:09:44your heart in your mind um it's harder
1:09:47for a Christian to tell somebody no you
1:09:50can't come in or to exclude somebody
1:09:52it's just hard because you know um
1:09:55I mean that's it's you know love love
1:09:58your neighbor fine love your enemy
1:10:01nobody says that except for I mean it's
1:10:03just it's it's an insane idea to like
1:10:05anybody who's not a Christian you know
1:10:07even a Jew you tell a Jew love your
1:10:09enemy you think you're totally insane
1:10:11rise and kill first you know yeah yeah
1:10:13exactly and So like um to take that I
1:10:17mean that's like that's the hardest
1:10:18saying in all religious literature as
1:10:20far as I'm concerned like you know just
1:10:23the demand that it makes on you is
1:10:26really
1:10:27like people people will like look at the
1:10:29look at the passage where uh the the
1:10:32rich man comes to Jesus and wants to
1:10:34follow him become a disciple and he says
1:10:36okay sell everything you have and give
1:10:38it away to the poor and then follow me
1:10:41and he says you know he is not happy
1:10:44about that you know because he's a very
1:10:45rich man but okay I'm going to do that
1:10:47it's like just let me go bury my father
1:10:50he's like no no come on right now we're
1:10:52leaving and people see that a lot of
1:10:55times I mean I read that and I'm like
1:10:56damn like if that's what's required like
1:11:00to be a Christian then I think we're all
1:11:03in a lot of trouble I don't think that's
1:11:05what the passage is saying I think
1:11:06that's what was required to be a
1:11:07disciple you know in those times
1:11:09specifically but in a
1:11:11way when you're called on to love your
1:11:14enemy like you are really that is a
1:11:17total claim I mean it is a claim that
1:11:19like requires that you give up
1:11:23like I mean
1:11:26give up control over something that is
1:11:28like so deep and fundamental to like uh
1:11:31you know just your your your will you're
1:11:33turning over like such a deep part of
1:11:35your will if you're going to follow that
1:11:36command it's incredibly it's just it's a
1:11:38total person command you know like it
1:11:42requires you to become a different kind
1:11:43of human being in order to be able to do
1:11:45that and so Christians we don't always
1:11:48do that in fact most of us rarely do and
1:11:52uh you know even when we think we're
1:11:54doing it we're probably not doing it so
1:11:56well uh but we strive toward that at
1:11:59least in our hearts and minds and it
1:12:00makes it very difficult you know even
1:12:03when you tell people like uh you know
1:12:06okay so put yourself like we're sitting
1:12:08here in this room with this table you
1:12:10got an empty room you're sitting on one
1:12:12side of the table on the other side of
1:12:14the table is a family and they're
1:12:17telling you their story of how they got
1:12:19here and how terrible things are back in
1:12:21the old country and how their lives are
1:12:22in danger and they're so poor and all
1:12:24these things can we please like find a
1:12:27place in your country to like to
1:12:30live what only a incredibly heartless
1:12:33person could tell them no right but then
1:12:35you say okay um then what happens is you
1:12:39let them in and then the door opens and
1:12:41another family comes in and then you
1:12:42look outside and you realize there's 60
1:12:44million people lined up outside that
1:12:47door and it's growing all the time
1:12:50because I I think that's what they say
1:12:51there like 60 or 65 million displaced
1:12:53persons in the in the world like just
1:12:55displaced persons forget about like
1:12:57immigrants and stuff and so how does
1:12:59that change your Calculus now you look
1:13:01at this family and they become you know
1:13:03in a way like it gives you the the moral
1:13:07strength to probably make the necessary
1:13:09decision but to do that you kind of have
1:13:11to dehumanize this family that's s
1:13:13that's standing across the table from
1:13:15you you know there's just no way around
1:13:17it because you can't tell that family no
1:13:20and look at them as a family with kids
1:13:22right there uh and still think think of
1:13:25yourself as fully human you know if you
1:13:27if you do that and so it's very
1:13:29difficult to uh bring to bring yourself
1:13:32around to a place where you can make a
1:13:34decision like that without really
1:13:36hardening your heart in a way that um
1:13:39you know that we're called on as
1:13:40Christians not to do and I think that's
1:13:42one of the reasons too like when you
1:13:44look at a lot of the people who do
1:13:45concern themselves like uh on the on the
1:13:48right like white people who concern
1:13:50themselves with racial identity and
1:13:51racial issues one of the questions like
1:13:54I always have
1:13:55about these folks or I used to have I
1:13:57think I've got it pretty well figured
1:13:58out now is like why can't you guys just
1:14:00be like Europeans or freaking awesome
1:14:03and like you know classical music's
1:14:05great and we all love like so like why
1:14:09is like every one of your websites every
1:14:12one of like your conversations every it
1:14:14is just all vitriol and hate toward all
1:14:16the other people why does it always turn
1:14:18into that like I don't I didn't quite
1:14:20get it but I think part of it is that
1:14:24you know it kind of have to do with what
1:14:26I was just talking about like in a way
1:14:28in order to be able to uh
1:14:31assert certain things like people have
1:14:34to overcompensate almost and like hate
1:14:36those people in order to be able to do
1:14:37it and feel to think that way and feel
1:14:39good about themselves you know because
1:14:41if like that person
1:14:43is another human being just like you let
1:14:46alone if it's another Christian you
1:14:48know you're called on to treat as like a
1:14:51a literal brother um it becomes just
1:14:54incredibly hard hard to exclude that
1:14:56person from anything and yet you have to
1:14:58do that and some people you know kind of
1:15:00overcome that cognitive dissonance I
1:15:02think by just really radically de
1:15:04dehumanizing you know the person I think
1:15:07that's part of
1:15:08it yeah the whole thing that M I think
1:15:11partly it's to take your example the
1:15:13family uh and then back to something you
1:15:16said earlier a lot of this stuff
1:15:18especially in England happening over one
1:15:20generation the demographic replacement
1:15:22it's really different if you have that
1:15:25war in a particular part of the
1:15:28world thousands upon 10 thousands of
1:15:30families moving to England then the
1:15:33English not the ruling administrative
1:15:37state of the of England but the English
1:15:39qua English opening their doors to these
1:15:43individual like guests exactly right
1:15:46like guests and and that's I think
1:15:48fundamentally like in many ways that the
1:15:50Immigrant is the The Foreigner there's
1:15:52rules in Deuteronomy we where they're
1:15:55there's ways to treat them humanely
1:15:57obviously first of all but there's a
1:15:59very much of a of a house guesser
1:16:01Dynamic you're a guest in my home you're
1:16:02a guest in my country and I can and then
1:16:05you respect me and uh but there's that
1:16:07like benevolent Dynamic where the people
1:16:10open the door to a family that's a need
1:16:12you let them in that's very
1:16:14unfortunately that's not what's that's
1:16:15not the setup that the English have been
1:16:17given yeah the setup is take a box and
1:16:20you just flip it around and
1:16:23dumps many many people
1:16:26who in the mix are families that do need
1:16:29that that could use that kind of help
1:16:32but a lot of it is just people who
1:16:36literally don't want that who want to
1:16:38pillage and destroy your country and
1:16:40take it take it from you and are glad
1:16:42that your sort of your administrative
1:16:45state is like Esau selling your birth
1:16:47rights on your not even on your behalf
1:16:50without you knowing or agreeing to it
1:16:52yeah and uh that they get to walk away
1:16:55with it yeah and it you know and
1:16:56obviously it just adds you know massive
1:17:00jet fuel to the fire uh the fact that
1:17:03the people who come into the country are
1:17:05immediately sucked up into a political
1:17:07and ideological system that exists that
1:17:10weaponizes them against the native
1:17:11population I mean that's really like I I
1:17:14knew somebody uh close friend who um was
1:17:17a was a princible of a school down in um
1:17:21Orange County like Santa Ana so very
1:17:23like uh 85 % Latino a lot of immigrants
1:17:27a lot of first
1:17:28generation and um you know she said that
1:17:32there'd be this D you know people like
1:17:34to point out like they'll say that like
1:17:35immigrants have a lower crime rate than
1:17:37like native born Americans fine I could
1:17:40actually buy that most of the immigrants
1:17:43that I would see and that I knew you
1:17:45know they were working out in the fields
1:17:47over here and so forth right um tell me
1:17:50about the second generation what's the
1:17:51second generation doing and she said you
1:17:54know the principles she said uh she'd
1:17:56have these parents who would come to her
1:17:58who these are Catholics uh you know from
1:18:01Mexico or um somewhere in Central
1:18:04America Catholic people who the Dad is
1:18:07working two jobs the mom is you know
1:18:11working full-time as you know cleaning
1:18:13houses whatever they're like struggling
1:18:15to make things work but they're they're
1:18:17doing it they care about their kids and
1:18:19they're coming they would come to her
1:18:21like I don't know what's happening to my
1:18:22kid like you know he because he comes
1:18:25over here and you know he gets sucked up
1:18:28into gang banger culture or just gets
1:18:31sucked up into this like uh you know
1:18:33culture that's sort of hostile to the
1:18:35rest of the you know the country whether
1:18:37it's like on on along ethnic lines or
1:18:40whatever it is and they would come to
1:18:41her and say like you know what do I do
1:18:43like why is this happening and what she
1:18:45couldn't tell them obviously is that
1:18:47like oh that's us we're doing that's
1:18:49actually why we exist just to weaponize
1:18:51your kid like that you know and like uh
1:18:54so that makes it even more difficult
1:18:56it's like even if uh you know you had a
1:19:00situation where people were being
1:19:02welcomed uh you know in in a merciful
1:19:06way um you know that can't last if if uh
1:19:12if you have a faction especially like I
1:19:14mean a dominant power faction in the
1:19:16west right now that is intent on uh
1:19:19using those people you know as
1:19:20instruments of their own power yeah and
1:19:23um you know you talk about like the
1:19:25English ruling class like doing this
1:19:28like the the really wild thing about it
1:19:32like yeah they're nominally English but
1:19:35really like it's a multinational Western
1:19:37ruling class that's doing it you know
1:19:39and everybody kind of knows that it's
1:19:41like yeah you keep people who like were
1:19:44from England over there and they keep
1:19:46people who are German over there but
1:19:47really it's like this you know
1:19:50multinational class of people who are
1:19:52imposing these uniform policies on
1:19:54everybody and they get to the point
1:19:56where somebody like Victor Orban who is
1:20:00like you know okay you don't have to
1:20:02agree with all of his policies you don't
1:20:05have to think you think he's not liberal
1:20:06enough or whatever it all is but he's
1:20:08like a radically popular Dem
1:20:11democratically elected president of a
1:20:13country that respects civil rights of
1:20:15all of its citizens and does all the
1:20:17Baseline things that we expect of like a
1:20:19you know of of one of our guys you know
1:20:22it's just like this wicked vicious yeah
1:20:24and they would destroy him in a second
1:20:26if they could you know and if and if
1:20:28honestly like if if they thought they
1:20:31could get away with it they would color
1:20:32Revolution his ass in a
1:20:34minute and it's like and you kind of so
1:20:38you think about that and then you kind
1:20:39of think like what's really the the game
1:20:42they're playing here like what is like
1:20:44why is it
1:20:46that um that that like the marching
1:20:49forward of the sexual Revolution and the
1:20:51demographic displacement of native
1:20:53populations in our countries that those
1:20:55are the two things that are not up for
1:20:57debate period you can debate everything
1:21:00else you want to be capitalist or
1:21:01Communists like we'll figure we'll
1:21:02figure out how to make ourselves
1:21:04comfortable either way so you guys argue
1:21:06what do you want to do with abortion you
1:21:07guys can argue about whatever it is you
1:21:09guys can argue about this stuff all you
1:21:10want but like there's these two domains
1:21:14uh that just they're not subject to the
1:21:17Democratic process like you like you can
1:21:19see in England now I mean in England
1:21:21like you know granted like people be
1:21:22like oh well yeah technically
1:21:24technically they don't have a First
1:21:26Amendment so it's actually okay if you
1:21:28arrest that woman for praying silently
1:21:30on the streets it's like what then cut
1:21:34then cut them off if if they're
1:21:35arresting a woman for praying silently
1:21:37on a street corner that's not that
1:21:39should not be our Ally like that if
1:21:41that's like what they want to do then
1:21:43cut their asses off or go invade them
1:21:45and freaking Liberate the English people
1:21:47from from these you know from these
1:21:48people who were controlling
1:21:50because I
1:21:52mean again like it's like the when you
1:21:55think about like how insane and just how
1:21:58unprecedented it is for a single
1:22:00generation of ruling class of a ruling
1:22:03class to decide that it is going to make
1:22:05the native population of its country
1:22:07that in it in its ancient Homeland right
1:22:11again not like America and I don't want
1:22:12to downplay the experience here there's
1:22:14a lot a different talking about their
1:22:16ancient Homeland I mean look at like
1:22:18Ireland those people have the Irish have
1:22:20been in Ireland for thousands and
1:22:23thousands of years right and like you so
1:22:26you have these people one generation of
1:22:28Elites decides to take that away from
1:22:30them for all time you know and when the
1:22:34people push back a little bit I mean
1:22:37they're arresting them for for posting
1:22:40about it on Twitter you know I mean like
1:22:42it is not up for debate in group chats
1:22:45in group chats so so it's like it is not
1:22:47up for debate if you question it and
1:22:50that is the one thing you know they're
1:22:52not going to arrest you for going on and
1:22:54saying our national health service sucks
1:22:56or our abortion policy is is bad or
1:22:59whatever they're not going to arrest you
1:23:00for that stuff but this one is
1:23:02non-negotiable and you look at you're
1:23:04like
1:23:05what I guarantee you like I mean you
1:23:07kind of see this sometimes when like in
1:23:09some of the interviews with Putin where
1:23:11he talks about some of the stuff that's
1:23:13going on in the west he's like they
1:23:16really feel like we've lost our though
1:23:18he's he's like why why are they doing
1:23:19this to themselves like I don't get it
1:23:22and you know that like she and all the
1:23:24Chinese and just everybody else around
1:23:26the world like they look at it and
1:23:27they're like what are they doing like
1:23:29why would they do this however you might
1:23:31disagree with them and yeah particular
1:23:33she
1:23:34like truly a communist dictator but like
1:23:38even they wouldn't inflict those these
1:23:39kinds of insane it just literally
1:23:42doesn't make sense it's 2 plus 2 plus 5
1:23:44level of yeah logic yeah have you read
1:23:48uh have you read Raymond Ibrahim um
1:23:52Defenders of the west or sword and citar
1:23:54uh um I've got sword and Scimitar up
1:23:56here somewhere but I haven't read it yet
1:23:57okay but now yeah so you should they're
1:24:00awesome books but that's the other thing
1:24:02that as I've been I just read sword and
1:24:04simitar moving on to Defenders of the
1:24:06West
1:24:08and again the US doesn't have this kind
1:24:10of history with with the players in the
1:24:14game right now
1:24:16where to tell you know we used to have
1:24:19Christendom then postwar consensus
1:24:21replaces Christendom with Native
1:24:22functionally
1:24:24and to
1:24:26tell to tell the inheritors of
1:24:30Christendom even in the modern form of
1:24:33it that the 14th centuries 14th
1:24:36centuries of battle were used to have
1:24:39and it's it's really amazing reading
1:24:40this books like just realized I didn't
1:24:43real I've been grew up in a Christian H
1:24:45but I didn't realize how how the world
1:24:46really was shaped in this way where you
1:24:49have individual independent in many ways
1:24:53like
1:24:55um you know ethnically different with
1:24:57their own customs and languages all
1:24:59these different states and they would
1:25:02band together in many ways put aside
1:25:04their differences when the Muslim threat
1:25:06would come over and over and over and
1:25:08over again over 14 centuries you tell
1:25:11those
1:25:12folks
1:25:13that their descendants a few Generations
1:25:16later like would just be like we give up
1:25:19yeah that fight yeah says like you you
1:25:23give into a nation that won you without
1:25:24looks just just full on like and and not
1:25:28just we it's not really even give up
1:25:31it's you're evil if you don't want this
1:25:34to happen it's just yeah and and you and
1:25:38you'll be told that by people who put
1:25:41their kids in private school when
1:25:42there's too many immigrants in the
1:25:44public school right and they're the
1:25:46luxury belief sort of and you're still
1:25:48supposed to take them seriously and like
1:25:50you know it's a high status sort of
1:25:52perspective to agree with them it's
1:25:55insane I yeah like I I think about like
1:25:58you know like a sort of more somewhat
1:26:00more recent example is uh just look at
1:26:03the Irish just centuries of brutal
1:26:07resistance to the British trying to
1:26:09absorb that island and get these people
1:26:11to just be Brits you know and just stop
1:26:15just you know stop this whole yeah stop
1:26:18resisting centuries and centuries of
1:26:20like refusing to back down and you know
1:26:24and I mean
1:26:25under in I mean you know you could talk
1:26:28about Cromwell or you can talk about
1:26:31like a lot of events that like you know
1:26:34incredible brutality I mean the British
1:26:36did not mess around when like they were
1:26:38trying to like when they were in their
1:26:39Hay Day and they wanted to accomplish
1:26:41something and you were resisting we have
1:26:42a bad like a sort of muddled view of
1:26:44this as Americans because they took it
1:26:46easy on us but like uh you know they
1:26:48didn't take it so easy on other people
1:26:50and they never took it easy on the Irish
1:26:52and for centuries
1:26:55they were arrested they were killed in
1:26:57battle they were you know killed in
1:27:00their homes uh just their homes were I
1:27:04mean just it was brutal brutal
1:27:06oppression for centuries and they held
1:27:09out and then like literally a few
1:27:11Decades of liberalism and they're giving
1:27:14their country away I mean the Irish are
1:27:16on track to be a minority in Ireland
1:27:18like by the end of the century that is I
1:27:21mean it's just you you couldn't even
1:27:23like go tell Michael Collins that that
1:27:25happen and he'd be like oh the British
1:27:27won huh no you actually won but you know
1:27:32and I
1:27:33mean you know it's
1:27:36like it comes back a little bit to what
1:27:39we were trying to figure out earlier you
1:27:41know when I was talking about like the
1:27:42propaganda angle of it because I mean
1:27:44there you know there really is like an
1:27:46angle too where
1:27:48uh you know the the I I struggle with
1:27:52this sometimes like because I don't know
1:27:53which part to place emphasis on
1:27:56necessarily is you know sure like
1:27:58there's liberalism for sure and you can
1:28:00say a few Decades of liberalism did with
1:28:02centuries of British brutality couldn't
1:28:04and that's true but liberalism's been
1:28:05around for quite a while at this point
1:28:08even in Ireland it's been around for
1:28:10quite a while um even if it hadn't
1:28:13reached out into the countryside like
1:28:14until a little more recently it's been
1:28:16around a while and like the
1:28:17decision-making
1:28:18centers um but I do Wonder like how much
1:28:22uh technology like media technology
1:28:25really is like the the the almost like
1:28:28the dominant factor in this you know
1:28:30that like uh people now are are sort of
1:28:33so absorbed into the media environment
1:28:35it's become sort of so it's become so
1:28:38all-encompassing for them like even if
1:28:40you're not actively on your phone or
1:28:42watching the TV that's still the world
1:28:45you're really living and thinking in
1:28:47it's sort of defining everything for you
1:28:49as you're going around and so um you
1:28:52know it's a it's a very very uh
1:28:56narrow range of like you know a very
1:28:58very narrow range of people
1:29:01demographically socially economically uh
1:29:04ideologically you know it's basically
1:29:06like a bunch of people from filtered
1:29:08through a few universities that all
1:29:11select for ideology you know and uh
1:29:15these are the people who um for a long
1:29:17time anyway obviously like we're part of
1:29:19the reason we're starting to fray a
1:29:21little bit and come apart is that the
1:29:22internet is breaking up this Monopoly
1:29:25but for a long time you know that dream
1:29:27world that people were kind of sued up
1:29:29into the mass media I mean we we have
1:29:31trouble like thinking about this today
1:29:33but you go back to like uh you go back
1:29:35to like um like the late 50s before they
1:29:38had the uh the big uh scandal with the
1:29:41the quiz shows when they found out that
1:29:43they were the quiz shows were rigged
1:29:44right you would have 2third of the
1:29:48American population on their couches at
1:29:51the same time watching a broadcast of
1:29:53like the most popular quiz shows at the
1:29:55time like I mean what that means and it
1:29:58would be the same the next night there's
1:30:00like Western the ho Roman Empire at is
1:30:01Apex couldn't even have imagined such a
1:30:03c such a like liturgy that's that kind
1:30:07of exact that's exactly where you have
1:30:09just everybody bow down before the alter
1:30:12of media and what's the point like what
1:30:14is the what is the function like of a
1:30:16liturgy with with regard to the
1:30:18congregation right to catechize it's to
1:30:21catechize but it's also to in order to
1:30:23prepare them to be catechized you know
1:30:25that's the point of the vestments in the
1:30:27building and the music and the incense
1:30:29and all the things is to bring these
1:30:31people which you couldn't probably do
1:30:33like uh unless you had them as a group
1:30:35you know to bring them all into a sort
1:30:38of emotional resonance that uh that that
1:30:42that that caused them to sort of
1:30:45voluntarily open themselves to be
1:30:46catechized right and so you have like
1:30:49you have this Dynamic where vast swats
1:30:52of the country I mean like again like
1:30:54two-thirds of the country are all
1:30:56getting together every night and sort of
1:30:58following the same emotional up and down
1:31:01and like on this same like sort of level
1:31:03of resonance right and you go in the
1:31:05next day and like everybody watched the
1:31:09show last night and they're all feeling
1:31:11the same way you felt about it everybody
1:31:13saw it and that's you know what you're
1:31:15talking about and
1:31:17like and so you know like like I mean
1:31:22for us today uh you know it's
1:31:26it's like I when I grew up I didn't
1:31:29really start using the internet like as
1:31:30on a regular basis until I was in my
1:31:32early 20s like um maybe when I was like
1:31:3620 or so um you know I'm 43 I was born
1:31:39in 81 and so I'm sort of in that like
1:31:41sort of perfect range where um I adopted
1:31:45the internet early enough that I'm not
1:31:47like your grandma like kinding of figure
1:31:48out Facebook to like see my grandkids or
1:31:51whatever like I get it I'm totally
1:31:53competent in it and like fluent in it
1:31:55but I lived enough of my life beforehand
1:31:57that like I remember what it was like
1:31:58before and so um kind of straddle that
1:32:01time period and uh and to see the
1:32:04transition that's taking place where you
1:32:06had like a situation where you had
1:32:08people like on this level of emotional
1:32:10resonance like going through this
1:32:11nightly liturgy weekly liturgy on the
1:32:13same Rhythm every you know just uh
1:32:16coming into work the next day like in a
1:32:19similar emotional state because of what
1:32:21they experienced the night before and
1:32:23like you know um and again that's I
1:32:25don't want to don't hear what I'm not
1:32:28saying like I'm not saying it like
1:32:29everybody you know last night the show
1:32:31had a happy ending everybody comes into
1:32:32work in a great mood some dude argued
1:32:34with his wife last night and he didn't
1:32:36care what the shows I mean obviously you
1:32:38know in the individual level that's true
1:32:40but in the aggregate there were these
1:32:42rhythms that were being followed that
1:32:44people were uh were all a part of and
1:32:46sucked up into and when you're in a uh
1:32:50when you're in like a group environment
1:32:52like that where uh there emotional uh um
1:32:56you know sort of waves that are being
1:32:58that are being ridden by the group as a
1:33:00whole man like it's incredibly powerful
1:33:04you know in ways that are so subtle that
1:33:06like uh you do things that that
1:33:11experientially are just a pure Act of
1:33:13your own will but really like it's the
1:33:16it's the crowd acting through you you
1:33:18know and um nobody will convince you of
1:33:21that you know you think you're just
1:33:22making a decision but like sometimes
1:33:24when you look back on it you realize it
1:33:26right I told this story in uh my Jim
1:33:29Jones series about how I remember this
1:33:31one time when uh I was a kid and my
1:33:36church youth group went to see uh Billy
1:33:39Graham thing right and it was at Arco
1:33:42Arena in San Francisco it's where the
1:33:43Kings play 15,000 people inside and
1:33:46there must have been 25,000 people
1:33:48outside with like big giant jumbotrons
1:33:51and stuff and I never seen anything like
1:33:53this is pretty crazy right and so we're
1:33:55like far away you know the nearest
1:33:57Jumbotron is not really that big but
1:34:00we're sitting there and like me and the
1:34:02other kids I was like literally like 11
1:34:05or something right and so we're goofing
1:34:08off and like uh there's a couple there's
1:34:10like a few adults but mostly it's the
1:34:12youth group they're bringing us there
1:34:14and so we're kind of goofing off in the
1:34:16back and adults like keep it down you
1:34:18you three or whatever and you know
1:34:20there's this one uh the girls group is
1:34:22there and they're like there's a one
1:34:24that like kind of has a crush on me and
1:34:25like there's this sort of dynamic going
1:34:27on and oh you know just all this kid
1:34:29stuff right and we're just not really
1:34:32paying attention to the whole thing you
1:34:34know he's up there preaching and we're
1:34:36just sort of being kids we're doing our
1:34:37thing well then toward the end they do
1:34:40the um the altar call and they you know
1:34:43they they tell people like if you know
1:34:45this message you heard tonight like
1:34:47resonated with you in any way if like
1:34:49you want to take this opportunity to
1:34:51like renew your relationship with Christ
1:34:53and you know even change your life you
1:34:55know the gospel tells us you can do that
1:34:58like with a simple Act of your own will
1:35:00just make the decision come up here you
1:35:02can do that and people start going up I
1:35:08mean thousands and thousands of people
1:35:10are going up there right and the kids
1:35:12aren't talking like to each other any
1:35:14more and cracking jokes it's like a very
1:35:16solemn you know they got the music and
1:35:19stuff and it's like very well-engineered
1:35:20experience but like um people are going
1:35:23up there like with a full heart you know
1:35:26people who um are carrying around uh a
1:35:30lot of regret or rage or whatever and
1:35:32they're going up there because this is
1:35:33an opportunity for them to to redeem
1:35:35that and so it's very real very
1:35:38emotional and then like kids in my group
1:35:41like they start getting up to go right
1:35:44and pretty soon like uh get to this
1:35:47point where like there was this um there
1:35:50was this one kid he was a couple years
1:35:52older than me who was kind of like like
1:35:53the he's kind of like the I guess you
1:35:57would say like the alpha kid in the
1:35:58group in a way just because he was the
1:35:59oldest and the biggest and kind of been
1:36:02his his family were like you know
1:36:04deacons in the church and had been for
1:36:06like a couple Generations kind of thing
1:36:08and so like he was sort of the like a
1:36:10natural leader you know and he gets up
1:36:13everybody at first was kind of like
1:36:14looking at him like almost for
1:36:15permission to go and then he got up and
1:36:18like everybody started getting up to go
1:36:19with him and I literally felt like
1:36:25like something almost Lifting me up to
1:36:27go like I felt my legs like without even
1:36:30sort of uh you know like like willing it
1:36:34like almost getting up like without any
1:36:37valtion at all and it to the point where
1:36:39it felt strange and I was like whoa this
1:36:41is weird and I'm not GNA go just because
1:36:44I don't know what's going on here right
1:36:46so I didn't go and uh like that um hey
1:36:51pretty boy you yeah we're very busy
1:36:54I'm telling a very heartfelt
1:36:57story and
1:36:59um and so uh I don't go up everybody
1:37:03else goes up and I know you've heard
1:37:06this one before it's fine
1:37:09um and the girl that i' had like kind of
1:37:11been crushing on and like there was this
1:37:13whole thing going on with with her
1:37:14friends talking to my friends and all
1:37:16that kind of stuff like she kind of
1:37:17looks back at me like come on like we're
1:37:20you know we're going whatever and I
1:37:21don't go and so they all go up there
1:37:23there and all these kids who had been
1:37:25just goofing off and flirting with each
1:37:27other and just doing all the stupid kid
1:37:28stuff this whole time they come back and
1:37:32like most of them are
1:37:34Weeping and they're like visibly
1:37:37different like you just in their faces
1:37:39there's like a certain Serenity a
1:37:41certain
1:37:43um calm you know just uh even though
1:37:46they're crying like a certain just calm
1:37:48Serenity to them and when they came back
1:37:51it was clear like immediately
1:37:54that there that that they had like had a
1:37:57bonding experience up there that I was
1:37:58not a part of and that like they were
1:38:02like one group and I was just separate
1:38:05from that because they had had this
1:38:06experience and that girl that I was
1:38:07crushing like that was over and it
1:38:09wasn't because she was like you didn't
1:38:10go I'm not wasn't like that it was just
1:38:13obviously over you know it was just
1:38:14obviously like sort of something that
1:38:16was pre alter
1:38:18call and so you think about that like
1:38:21and these are kids again who didn't
1:38:22listen to any of the sermon like the
1:38:24entire thing and yet the pull of the
1:38:27crowd brought them up there and I'm not
1:38:29even saying like therefore it's
1:38:31illegitimate or bad like they had an
1:38:33important experience up there you know
1:38:35and you know we're built we're hypers
1:38:38social mammals that the call of the
1:38:40crowd is important to us for a reason
1:38:43you know it's built into us very deeply
1:38:45it can be manipulated and like obviously
1:38:47put to very negative uses but it's a
1:38:49part of who we are and so you know that
1:38:53you have again these kids who were like
1:38:56there in the most superficial way
1:38:58possible a lot of them just got dragged
1:39:00there sent there by their parents or
1:39:01something and yet they have this
1:39:03incredible emotional experience that
1:39:05really like I mean it
1:39:08literally it it changed the way they
1:39:10behave toward each other and toward
1:39:12other people you know they were um
1:39:15because you know it's like anybody who's
1:39:16been in a youth group like as a kid
1:39:17knows it's like being in school you know
1:39:19it can be a Christian school but
1:39:21there're still bullies they're still
1:39:22Ming girls there's all that kind of
1:39:24stuff it's just like any other place and
1:39:26like uh and the kids who had had this
1:39:29experience like they were nicer to the
1:39:32other kids they were
1:39:35changed now you know a couple weeks went
1:39:38by and they kind of reverted back
1:39:40because you know you have to reinforce
1:39:41that all the time if you're going to
1:39:42keep that kind of change going so they
1:39:44kind of reverted back but it affected
1:39:45their behavior and if it had been
1:39:47reinforced on a regular basis it would
1:39:48have changed if they kept them on that
1:39:50track and so you look at that and say
1:39:52like what an unbelievably powerful
1:39:55experience it is and again to bring it
1:39:57it's like a long anecdote but like to
1:40:00bring it back to what we were talking
1:40:01about it's like the age of mass media
1:40:03where you have like people who are sort
1:40:05of put on this you know uh uh on the
1:40:09same emotional wavelength night after
1:40:11night week after week year after year
1:40:14and you're able to do that with a whole
1:40:16society and that and and that experience
1:40:20you know just like Billy Grahams
1:40:22producers and event organizers were able
1:40:24to do with the music and the whole like
1:40:27presentation of it which is very
1:40:28important to the experience you know um
1:40:32with this you know with the mass media
1:40:33experience that people uh were were that
1:40:37dream world that people were in it's
1:40:39also a very limited number of people who
1:40:41were engineering that whole experience
1:40:43to achieve like specific outcomes like
1:40:45specific emotional outcomes but then
1:40:48specific ideological outcomes and so
1:40:50forth and you know it naturally
1:40:54reflected the Outlook and biases of
1:40:56those
1:40:57people today you know uh the internet
1:41:00came along nobody really uh you know you
1:41:04can really tell that like even the
1:41:06people at the top levels they didn't
1:41:08really expect this to happen they didn't
1:41:12expect the internet to turn into what it
1:41:14is just because the reason you know that
1:41:16is that when you go back and look now at
1:41:20like whether it's Jeffrey Epstein or
1:41:23the JFK you know assass any any of the
1:41:26things you realize like they didn't
1:41:28bother covering anything up because they
1:41:31just had control of like the three
1:41:33channels and you know the New York Times
1:41:35and they just didn't really care so
1:41:37sloppy now that we can just like look at
1:41:39everything on the internet we're like oh
1:41:40my gosh like this is all right out in
1:41:42the open and that's what tells you they
1:41:43didn't expect this to happen you know
1:41:45they didn't expect to lose control of
1:41:46the information ecosystem like that but
1:41:49what that's doing is all these people
1:41:50who were locked into this emotional
1:41:52resonance are now kind of scattering
1:41:55apart into like the the very idea I
1:41:57don't care if it's a Super Bowl or
1:41:58whatever the very idea of two-thirds of
1:42:00the country coming together at the same
1:42:03time to watch something at night it's
1:42:04just it's inconceivable now you know
1:42:06we're all I mean shoot uh Tucker Carlson
1:42:10was the highest rated Prime Time news
1:42:12show and it was like three or four
1:42:13million viewers a night you know 1% of
1:42:16the American population and like U you
1:42:18know some of those are bars you know uh
1:42:22public place like doctor's offices and
1:42:24stuff and so like massive audience in
1:42:27today's context you know back you go
1:42:29back to Walter kronite that would have
1:42:30been like 30 million people which is
1:42:33again we don't have anything like that
1:42:35and so people have kind of siloed off
1:42:37and split off into their uh in into
1:42:40their little clubs with people who you
1:42:43know when the information ecosystem
1:42:45becomes uh really something that instead
1:42:48of helping explain things to people
1:42:51really just confuses them um whether
1:42:53that's just because
1:42:55it's changing very rapidly or because
1:42:57it's polluted by Propaganda and
1:42:59misinformation or just because it's uh
1:43:03you know because it's
1:43:05um being weaponized by by somebody
1:43:08whatever the whatever the reason is what
1:43:10people do in a situation like that where
1:43:11they don't know who to like who's
1:43:13telling them the truth is they do the
1:43:16most natural thing in the world that
1:43:18they do the thing I do you know which uh
1:43:21is well I can look at this and say I
1:43:23don't know what the truth is on this
1:43:26like really this is a television show to
1:43:27me I'm watching you know the Prime Time
1:43:29news channels but all that mean it's
1:43:32just a television show it could
1:43:33literally all be fiction for all I know
1:43:35like it could be complete fiction if you
1:43:36were watching MSNBC racial M out during
1:43:39the rushia gate thing you're literally
1:43:42watching a fictional conspiracy show
1:43:44like that's what you're watching and I'm
1:43:46sure there's things like that like on
1:43:47Fox News and every right and so you can
1:43:50look at that and say this could be
1:43:52totally made up
1:43:54uh but what I
1:43:55know is that Tucker Carlson doesn't hate
1:43:59my guts and this woman over here on M
1:44:03MSNBC really hates my guts and so I'm G
1:44:06to trust this guy and get into this you
1:44:08know uh into this Lane and believe what
1:44:10he says and that kind of tribalize us
1:44:13you know a corrupted or confusing
1:44:15information ecosystem forces us to
1:44:17tribalize and um and to you know it sort
1:44:22of really brings out that friend enemy
1:44:23distinction and brings it to the former
1:44:25you know in in a lot of ways because
1:44:27that's the first thing you have to
1:44:28figure out is like who is a threat to me
1:44:30and who's not who is like trying to hurt
1:44:33me and who's not and
1:44:35um you know in a healthy society and
1:44:39healthy Democratic Society like the
1:44:41society that we were in you know 1950 or
1:44:44something people were not thinking that
1:44:46way you know most people like most
1:44:48people were not thinking in terms of
1:44:50like uh you know what are the factions
1:44:54in power that are trying to destroy me
1:44:56in my way of life and um who can I trust
1:44:59like and they just you we were able we
1:45:03we you know our sense of community in
1:45:05the country again I think to a large
1:45:08extent because of the mass media
1:45:09environment that that was in place at
1:45:12the time because by 1950 maybe 1950 I
1:45:15mean by 1950 I think it was
1:45:19like I think there were about 50 million
1:45:23households had televisions which was
1:45:26still only like 60 or 70% or something
1:45:28but by the time you get to 1960 it's
1:45:30literally like the cell phon like 98% of
1:45:32houses and the average like TV watch
1:45:35time in an average American household is
1:45:39literally like six hours a day right and
1:45:42I'm sure that's like Mom watching a soap
1:45:44opera during the day Dad watching the
1:45:46news and the kids watching cartoons but
1:45:48still that thing is a dominant force in
1:45:50that household you know in terms of just
1:45:53setting the tone for the day and
1:45:54everything and like um and everybody
1:45:57else is doing it too your neighbors are
1:45:58doing it the next town over is doing it
1:46:01everybody in the next State's doing it
1:46:03and um and so that you know that sort of
1:46:08unifying information ecosystem sort of
1:46:11put people into a a place where uh where
1:46:16they
1:46:16could go One Step Beyond the friend
1:46:19enemy distinction and you know think
1:46:22about politics on like you know uh one
1:46:24just one level Beyond where we can you
1:46:27know think about and you know people can
1:46:29look back and say well those people only
1:46:30thought they were doing politics you
1:46:32know the strings were being pulled at
1:46:34another level that's not what I'm
1:46:36talking about like what actual influence
1:46:39and impact they're having on policy
1:46:40that's not what I mean I'm talking about
1:46:43interpersonal politics practical
1:46:45politics how you feel about your
1:46:46neighbor your Countryman your you know
1:46:48that's what I mean and um and people
1:46:52were able to step back and you know deal
1:46:56with disagreements over tax policy or or
1:46:58something well this goes back to I think
1:46:59something you said at the beginning of
1:47:01the conversation but we were also
1:47:03talking about it at lunch which is
1:47:06uh there used to be all these organic
1:47:09structures that uh people in the 50s
1:47:12even if they were at the tail end of a
1:47:14society that had these kinds of organic
1:47:16structures like family and your
1:47:18neighbors Community uh there he goes
1:47:23uh like they still existed and so even
1:47:25if you have sort of a
1:47:28unifying force at the top uh you're not
1:47:32confused as much by that box by that
1:47:36glowing box that screams yeah oh such
1:47:39because you know your dad because you
1:47:40know your grandpa because your neighbor
1:47:42knew your grandpa and all your grandpa
1:47:45their grandpa and your grandpa grew up
1:47:47together in the same town they all went
1:47:48to the same church just now their Pastor
1:47:50the pastor's son is now your pastor you
1:47:52Le all that exists fast forward to again
1:47:56we talked about this at lunch the
1:47:58extreme example uh that comes out when
1:48:01though those dissolve is the Tim wall is
1:48:05is my dad or daddy which was even more
1:48:07dis uh types of tweets we saw last week
1:48:12uh it's it's uh yeah there's
1:48:15almost people still need those
1:48:17structures obviously that's how we're
1:48:18built by God but but those they don't
1:48:21exist yeah dude there's so there's two
1:48:23points there and I'm going to State them
1:48:25both up front because they're both
1:48:26important I want to forget one um the
1:48:29first has to do with just uh how hard it
1:48:33how how much more difficult it is to
1:48:35propagandize people who are rooted in a
1:48:36community so don't let me forget that
1:48:38and the second part is when talking
1:48:40about people calling Tim Wall's Daddy
1:48:43and thinking about like uh how um you
1:48:46know like if you look at the Jonestown
1:48:47cult or any of the Cults of the 70s or
1:48:50late 60s like they were all made up of a
1:48:53bunch of people who are alienated from
1:48:54their families all of course because of
1:48:56course like if you're not alienated from
1:48:58your family like what are you doing how
1:49:00you get people to move literally from
1:49:01the US all the way to South America
1:49:03right it means they don't have a dad
1:49:05that tells them you're not going snap
1:49:07out of it you're coming come move to our
1:49:09basement and so but the first part of I
1:49:12mean if you think about like any good
1:49:14you know uh like military prison camp
1:49:18brainwashing expert knows that you got
1:49:21to get people isolated before anything
1:49:23is going to really work on them you know
1:49:25and if you get people isolated long
1:49:27enough you can get just about anything
1:49:29to work on you know you can implant
1:49:31ideas like pretty deeply in into
1:49:33somebody if you do it right and like the
1:49:35thing is like I mean if you think about
1:49:37how we think we we usually use the term
1:49:39we're talking about like the news media
1:49:42or something media is just you know in
1:49:44terms of like in its real definitional
1:49:46sense right just a um a message being
1:49:50sent from a sender to a receiver and
1:49:52being understood on the other end right
1:49:54so um sender receiver and means of
1:49:57interpretation right so um speech is a
1:50:00form of media um and so if you go back
1:50:04to like uh any hunter gatherer Society
1:50:08or even like a medieval village or even
1:50:11like Villages out in the countryside in
1:50:13most of Europe in like the 15 1600s
1:50:17which still most people at that point
1:50:20the people who like all the information
1:50:22that those people got because most of
1:50:24them were not literate it would be very
1:50:26strange and rare if you were not a
1:50:28priest and you were literate in a
1:50:29English Village in
1:50:311500 um all the information you got was
1:50:36literally given to you face to face like
1:50:39that was literally how it was all
1:50:41information was given to you like it was
1:50:43there's no recording devices you can't
1:50:45read there's no I mean yeah every piece
1:50:48of information you have is delivered to
1:50:51you and it might be like delivered to
1:50:53you in a crowd and there's a guy up on
1:50:55the podium but but it's by a human being
1:50:57that you're looking at and so if you
1:50:59think about like um reading the Bible
1:51:01well nobody you know none of these
1:51:03people in 1500 read the Bible the Bible
1:51:06every single time they'd ever heard the
1:51:09Bible or you know just ever were
1:51:12delivered the message of the Bible it
1:51:15was being read to them by a man who's in
1:51:19a position of great Authority and
1:51:20respect in the community who's on an
1:51:23elevated like position most of the time
1:51:25in like traditional investments in an
1:51:28environment that is like built and
1:51:30specially suited to sort of like lend
1:51:33Authority and reverence to what's going
1:51:35on that is every single time you've ever
1:51:37heard the Bible that's how you got it
1:51:40right and like you can expand that out
1:51:44to like people's whole whole experience
1:51:46of uh just information exchange right
1:51:50it's all done face to face and what that
1:51:52means means is you're always getting
1:51:55information from somebody that you have
1:51:57like a human relationship with in one
1:51:59form or another and so if this is like
1:52:01if I'm a kid and my grandfather is
1:52:05telling me this uh that's going to be
1:52:07very different then like if I'm an old
1:52:10guy and my grandkid is telling me this
1:52:13or if a stranger is telling me this and
1:52:15you know if a stranger comes and tells
1:52:16me something and my dad and my
1:52:18grandfather tell me no that's that's not
1:52:21true and those men have a Authority in
1:52:23our lives because this is a traditional
1:52:25society and I'm an English peasant or
1:52:26whatever um they don't have to explain
1:52:29themselves you know that stranger he he
1:52:31he's just going to be filtered out
1:52:33because he's trying to invade an
1:52:35existing like Authority structure that
1:52:37just has no room for like people coming
1:52:40in and injecting things that that that
1:52:42the structure objects to you know I mean
1:52:44and so there's like a great deal of
1:52:46immunity to propaganda in fact jacu in
1:52:49his book propaganda talk he has a whole
1:52:51chapter about this it's one of the best
1:52:53chapters of like any of his books but
1:52:55it's one of my favorite chapters period
1:52:57where um he talks about how in order to
1:53:00uh propagandize people like in order to
1:53:03use propaganda
1:53:04effectively you the the first thing you
1:53:06have to do is you have to get them alone
1:53:08which you know we can't put everybody in
1:53:10their own little cell here or whatever
1:53:12but in a social context that means you
1:53:14have to like you know get people out of
1:53:17their traditional environment where
1:53:19they're get them on their phone you get
1:53:21them on their phone yeah
1:53:23and like uh and and you know in his in
1:53:26his day he was writing this in the 60s
1:53:27he meant like he's looking and saying
1:53:29like you look at the urban environments
1:53:32that we have where this very strange
1:53:35like thing that appears as a paradox at
1:53:37first where like um you know everybody
1:53:40is anonymous everybody is disconnected
1:53:43individual um who is like everybody that
1:53:47they sort of meet usually throughout the
1:53:49day is equally Anonymous they have no
1:53:52like you know unless it's their boss at
1:53:55work or something they don't have like a
1:53:56real status relationship to them that
1:53:59really means something you know even if
1:54:00it is their parent it's like not the
1:54:04same as like you know in a traditional
1:54:06tribe that's my father you know it's
1:54:08like uh everything is sort of um just a
1:54:11nominal relationship that could shift at
1:54:13any moment and um and you have to get
1:54:17people in an environment like that well
1:54:19right so he says you know you have this
1:54:21weird Paradox where people are like very
1:54:23isolated like that and yet at the same
1:54:25time you have the formation of this
1:54:26thing called the public mind where you
1:54:28know you have you can have mobs that
1:54:30have millions of people in them in a way
1:54:32like people like behaving with a mob
1:54:34mentality and it's like entire regions
1:54:37of the country behaving this way right
1:54:39and um it's the perfect storm of like
1:54:41disconnected unored people all connected
1:54:46on the other end centralized like media
1:54:48apparatus yes yeah and it's you know you
1:54:51get people
1:54:53in an unstructured State that's really
1:54:55what it is is you take you get a mass of
1:54:56people in an unstructured state if
1:54:58they're if they're in a state where
1:55:01every one of them is firmly socketed
1:55:04into uh a family that has hierarchies
1:55:08within it and uh they're firmly socketed
1:55:11into a community that knows them and
1:55:13they're known um socketed into like a
1:55:16guild you know or some sort of um
1:55:19vocational group that really means
1:55:21something just all these a church Church
1:55:22obviously all these different things
1:55:24that socket them that they're socketed
1:55:25into that kind of give shape to their
1:55:28being at least their social
1:55:31being then uh you know you're you're
1:55:34just you're going to have an extremely
1:55:35difficult time uh selling that person
1:55:38something that uh that that is not
1:55:41natural to them right and um so yeah L
1:55:46talks about so that was the first thing
1:55:48the second thing was yeah talking about
1:55:50like any of these cults
1:55:53there's a and you know obviously it's
1:55:54related to this to the same Dynamic is
1:55:56it like the whole TI my dad they're all
1:56:00made up of people who you I was talking
1:56:02to Joo about this actually a couple
1:56:04weeks ago um how you know if you go back
1:56:08and watch uh this that movie Rebel
1:56:12Without a Cause right um everybody has
1:56:16the uh what's the kid's name again J
1:56:19every single time I talk about this
1:56:21movie I forget his name it's like yeah
1:56:23anyway um everybody like I noticed today
1:56:25because most people haven't seen that
1:56:26movie today and if you ask people about
1:56:29it they're like oh yeah didn't he die in
1:56:32a car crash at the end and people that's
1:56:34what people kind of think happened at
1:56:35the end he died in a car crash right
1:56:37that's not what happened in the movie if
1:56:38you seen the movie like what happens
1:56:40he's this Rebel Without a Cause but then
1:56:42at the end he pulls back from the brink
1:56:44and reunites and reconciles with his
1:56:46family and sort of comes back home and
1:56:49then the real James Dean died in a car
1:56:51crash and those two things have kind of
1:56:53been merged together in the public mind
1:56:55but what actually happened this was like
1:56:56I think 50 what 54 or something like
1:56:59that I think it was um was that the
1:57:01Rebel Without a Cause pulled back and
1:57:04went back to his family and reconciled
1:57:06with his father and that was the happy
1:57:08ending you go up to like the late 60s
1:57:12and a lot of the big movies you start to
1:57:13see pop up then in the late 60s early
1:57:1570s and I think of like Joo and I were
1:57:18at the time we were talking about One
1:57:19Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and uh then
1:57:22I brought up like Easy Rider bring up um
1:57:26like Cool Hand Luke which I think was
1:57:27like 67 all these people who were like
1:57:30social Misfits Rebels Without a Cause
1:57:33right um who all have disastrous endings
1:57:38you know um Paul Newman gets killed at
1:57:41the End by the prison guard uh the two
1:57:44guys in Easy Rider get run off the road
1:57:45and killed by some good old boys One
1:57:48Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest you know he
1:57:49gets a pillow over the face they all
1:57:51have a bad ending at the end and one of
1:57:53the things you notice is like in all
1:57:56these movies like where are any of these
1:57:57people's families it's like they don't
1:57:59they don't have a family for the purpose
1:58:00of the story they have no family like
1:58:02there's no they don't mention them they
1:58:05don't meet them for sure they just don't
1:58:07exist and so you have this individual
1:58:08who's out there like now that James Dean
1:58:11character doesn't have a family to go
1:58:12back to or he's just he's not willing to
1:58:15do it you know uh whatever it is these
1:58:17people are alone in a way that they
1:58:18weren't before and that is a cultural
1:58:20change that really did take place from
1:58:22like 54 to 1970 you know and not just
1:58:25one that took place in like the the
1:58:27collective mind or the culture but took
1:58:30it took place like in a in in a real
1:58:33experiential sense you know those 16
1:58:35years 15 20 years that went by you have
1:58:38a new generation of people that grew up
1:58:40very differently you know they grew up
1:58:42in the suburbs watching TV they didn't
1:58:44grow up in the parish neighborhood and
1:58:47um all of those you know again those
1:58:49rooted structures had lost their grip on
1:58:51a lot of those people
1:58:53people um as you're were talking I was
1:58:56thinking of uh trying to remember the
1:58:59the the
1:59:00chapter but the the parable of the
1:59:04prodigal son you think about like as a
1:59:06society we're almost like like the
1:59:08prodal son you know the story uh Parable
1:59:11Jesus tells about the son who asks his
1:59:13father for inheritance early and then
1:59:15blows it hookers and uh uh wastes it all
1:59:20and then realiz says I've sinned against
1:59:23uh against heaven and my father and I
1:59:27I'm not worthy to be called his son but
1:59:29I'm going to return and he goes back and
1:59:30he's embraced given the ring fatf gets
1:59:33killed all stuff great story great
1:59:36Parable as a society we're in this
1:59:38interesting this is what may me think
1:59:40about what you were talking this a
1:59:41society where like it's like that
1:59:44story but it's like a kid that gets a
1:59:48inheritance from an distant like
1:59:50relative they never knew and sure they
1:59:53go on and blow it because we inherited
1:59:55christom again sort of the remnants of
1:59:56it but then we have no father to go back
1:59:58to like that part L just kind of cannot
2:00:02happen yeah which is the most important
2:00:04part of the story is the you know that
2:00:07the father as he sees the son it says
2:00:10that as a father saw his son from afar
2:00:12which means he was like looking out for
2:00:14him even before the son arrives back
2:00:16home the father runs out and Embraces
2:00:18him if you don't know if you don't if
2:00:21you're onm it's like you don't literally
2:00:22know if who your actual dad is like yeah
2:00:25you're gonna call Tim Walt's dad because
2:00:28yeah that's the father hunger sort of at
2:00:30the heart of civilization that has no
2:00:33father to run back to uh yeah it would
2:00:36inherit it at all just like that kid we
2:00:38just blew it and now we're like all
2:00:41where with the
2:00:42pigs where do we go back home to yeah
2:00:46there's no hope yeah that's that's
2:00:49a hard thing to think about but that's
2:00:52very true yeah I mean you know and the
2:00:56the the real like difficulty with it is
2:00:59like even
2:01:01the you know the the nature of
2:01:04fatherhood has changed you know for most
2:01:06people in a way that like even if you
2:01:08have an intact family that loves you and
2:01:10you can go back to visit or whatever
2:01:12like it's still you know the the the
2:01:16authority that um allows you to draw
2:01:19strength from the father in a way um
2:01:22that those things to a large extent have
2:01:24have dissolved you know and um even the
2:01:28sense of Patria I again coming from the
2:01:29Latin ptter which was the head of the
2:01:33household and you think of even
2:01:37certainly you're your personal father
2:01:39but you know actual
2:01:41sort your dad but like even your
2:01:44Homeland as a as a Patria that has no no
2:01:48or Waning Authority depending on Country
2:01:50you come from uh as a source of that
2:01:53kind of strength yeah well it's
2:01:55something that I mean you know really
2:01:57like
2:01:58the the the the big push of the 20th
2:02:03century right of 20th century liberalism
2:02:05I guess has
2:02:07been you know we need you think about
2:02:10like
2:02:11uh it's really strange because I think
2:02:13like people at the time like they
2:02:15weren't I don't think this was all
2:02:16planned out or anything but it's just
2:02:18the consequences of how things have have
2:02:19played out um
2:02:22that we took Liberty to mean like
2:02:24freedom from constraint you know and
2:02:28what's what are the things that like
2:02:29most constrain you on a daily basis it's
2:02:32not the government usually unless you're
2:02:34maybe even even even if you do live in
2:02:37the Soviet Union in 1960 it's still
2:02:39probably not the government it's your
2:02:41parents it's the teacher at school it's
2:02:44the authority figures around you in your
2:02:46community like those are the people who
2:02:47are actually cons putting constraints on
2:02:50you on a regular just sort of daily
2:02:51basis and it became we need to liberate
2:02:54people from all of those things you know
2:02:56we need to like I I got into a
2:02:58discussion with a buddy of mine um he
2:03:00was well meaning he's kind he's a
2:03:02liberal guy but he he was well meaning
2:03:04we're talking about like the changes in
2:03:06media and how um you know with with
2:03:10social media and the internet out there
2:03:11now it's like really sort of uh it's
2:03:13allowed people to um you know like the
2:03:17the the realm of their life that's like
2:03:19their private life and it's not really
2:03:22private to like you know big Tech but
2:03:24like it's private from like your spouse
2:03:26or something has been just that realm of
2:03:29your life has been radically expanded
2:03:31right so like you might have had a
2:03:32private life before where like you had a
2:03:34diary or um you know just conversations
2:03:37with your buddies at the conversations
2:03:39with your buddies at the pub Etc um but
2:03:42you know that was kind of the extent of
2:03:43it now it's like people have like their
2:03:46whole like a big chunk of their life
2:03:48like in this in this place that's
2:03:50totally shut off from like all the
2:03:52people in their real life right so it's
2:03:53like a private private world that
2:03:55they're uh
2:03:56inhabiting and um you know and he was
2:03:59saying it like uh you know well um you
2:04:01know there's like a good side I guess to
2:04:03that like you know he was saying this
2:04:05kind of in passing to get to another
2:04:06point but he was like you know there so
2:04:07you have like somebody who lives like
2:04:09like a gay kid who lives in a community
2:04:11or family that's like G to be just like
2:04:14very punitive and like unaccepting and
2:04:16so forth and he can go and like uh find
2:04:20people like he can talk to about
2:04:21whatever and I was like I stopped him I
2:04:23was like who negative like I 100% object
2:04:26to like every ounce of what you're
2:04:28saying right now like the idea that like
2:04:32start with the fact that you're talking
2:04:34about a child and you're talking about
2:04:36that child's sexual identity right right
2:04:39there that should be like a huge red
2:04:41flag of like what do you even uh what
2:04:44you're saying is that this
2:04:46child should be able to go into a place
2:04:49privately that his parents don't know
2:04:52about that none of the people in his
2:04:53real life know about and go work out his
2:04:56sexual identity with
2:04:59strangers apart from all the people who
2:05:01were like supposed you know his
2:05:02caretaker and so I was like absolutely
2:05:04not and if that means like look yeah are
2:05:07there going to be like they're going to
2:05:08be some gay kid in some place that like
2:05:10his parents just beat the hell out of
2:05:12him and disown him and th yeah I guess
2:05:15but like the other side of that is like
2:05:18you know you're going to have kids going
2:05:19online getting groomed I mean that's
2:05:21really B basically what you're talking
2:05:22about even in the good story where he
2:05:24goes and does this like you know that's
2:05:26really what you're talking about and so
2:05:28it's like you know this is like a I mean
2:05:31this is like a it's going to be
2:05:33interesting to see how this plays out in
2:05:35the sense of you know you can have like
2:05:37if you if you think about
2:05:39like go back days before the internet
2:05:42right and you're at uh an event and your
2:05:47wife sees like a guy she used to date in
2:05:50high school and she goes over and
2:05:53they're having a conversation while
2:05:54you're over here you go up to her
2:05:56afterwards and say oh what were you guys
2:05:58talking
2:05:59about everybody present including her is
2:06:02g to recognize you have a right to ask
2:06:04that question right everybody's going to
2:06:06expect her to answer it and answer it
2:06:08truthfully because that's a question
2:06:10that's totally legitimate if your wife
2:06:12befriends her old high school sweetheart
2:06:14on Facebook and she's talking to him on
2:06:16Facebook on her phone and you say oh I
2:06:19want to see your phone see what you guys
2:06:20are talking about that's going to be
2:06:22looked at as like a radical violation of
2:06:23her privacy right in the modern mind
2:06:25that's like breaking into and people be
2:06:27like oh you can't do that like and so
2:06:29I'm it's like really when you think
2:06:31about like you know the intimacy of the
2:06:33smartphone is really um and this is one
2:06:35thing makes me a little nervous about
2:06:37Elon is that uh neuro neural chip thing
2:06:40that he seems to be interested in I mean
2:06:43I'm sure there's good medical like
2:06:44reasons for it and so forth but it makes
2:06:46me nervous but like the intimacy of the
2:06:48smartphone right where have you ever
2:06:50noticed how
2:06:52people will like uh you know it doesn't
2:06:55matter who it is it's the most innocent
2:06:56thing in the world somebody will be
2:06:57looking at
2:06:58espn.com and if you walk up they'll kind
2:07:01of turn their phone away like a little
2:07:03bit and they're just looking at ESPN or
2:07:05something but it's just a natural thing
2:07:06to do and the the reason I think is
2:07:09because you know because of like the way
2:07:12you interface with it so closely up to
2:07:15your face and something you're holding
2:07:16in your hand and it takes up most of
2:07:18your vision when you're using it it
2:07:19becomes like is that biblical language
2:07:22would be in your bosom like it's it's
2:07:24right here you know it's that kind of in
2:07:26is that the it blurs the boundaries
2:07:28between your own mind and thoughts and
2:07:32the digital space that you're in here
2:07:35and it's like almost like you know it's
2:07:37like your mind is like half in your head
2:07:40and then half out here in this thing and
2:07:42so like really that person's like kind
2:07:43of trying to look into your thoughts and
2:07:45so you naturally kind of angle the phone
2:07:47away no matter what it is and when you
2:07:49think about that like I mean this is
2:07:51just a Rand this is like a a very new
2:07:54world when it's just like you're like I
2:07:58think it's actually probably pretty much
2:08:00normal now that
2:08:03like you know you you go you go down a
2:08:06Suburban Street and find a married
2:08:08couple and that probably both of them
2:08:13are friends on Facebook with like people
2:08:15they dated in the past or something
2:08:18that's like and I'm not saying that's
2:08:19necessarily like bad like I wouldn't
2:08:22like I don't think it's good uh but I'm
2:08:25not saying it's necessarily
2:08:27bad but it's new you know it's a thing
2:08:31where like that was just not something
2:08:32that uh especially if they're in
2:08:35different cities or geographies like you
2:08:37lose contact with that person forever
2:08:39right and so like um you know so it it
2:08:44introduces like a even if it's even if
2:08:47it's innocent like the just having like
2:08:50um more and more of your your life
2:08:52taking place in private apart from the
2:08:54family environment or the community
2:08:55environment it just drives a wedge and
2:08:57sort of delegitimizes the family or
2:08:59Community situation in general you know
2:09:01when you think of this is another thing
2:09:03I said to my buddy when he was talking
2:09:04about his example uh you know the the
2:09:07gay kid finding friends or whatever um
2:09:11you I said that like uh if you think
2:09:14about how like your own childhood you
2:09:17know um was once like once you hit
2:09:20puberty and you start getting like
2:09:21crushes on girls or whatever like you
2:09:23start getting girlfriends and you know
2:09:25getting into that like the sexualized
2:09:27period of your life like that
2:09:29automatically sort of it it
2:09:33it I wouldn't say it necessarily like
2:09:36brings down the authority of your
2:09:38parents like a pay or two I wouldn't
2:09:40necessarily put it that way but I would
2:09:41say that like you're much more willing
2:09:43to challenge their Authority you're much
2:09:45more because like this thing is super
2:09:47important to you you know
2:09:49you're if it wasn't then species
2:09:51wouldn't have made it this far right so
2:09:53it's like this huge like compulsive
2:09:55thing that is is sort like sort of
2:09:58pounding your will to drive you in a
2:10:00certain direction and if your parents
2:10:01are going to stand in the way of that
2:10:02they don't like your girlfriend well too
2:10:05bad you know you're gonna like whereas
2:10:08like if it was like just one of your
2:10:09buddies or something and your parents
2:10:11you know parents might tell you uh you
2:10:13know I don't want you hang out with him
2:10:14he's a bad influence you might not like
2:10:16it but it's not going to like it's not
2:10:18the same as like you have to break up
2:10:21with that girl cuz she's bad like kids
2:10:23aren't going to do that and it's because
2:10:24like once you uh start to develop like a
2:10:28um a sexual identity it you're starting
2:10:32to become an adult now and you're
2:10:33starting to have a life that you know uh
2:10:36your parents are not in control of right
2:10:40and so that's starting to develop and so
2:10:43when we start going out and telling kids
2:10:46all kids at this point I mean we're
2:10:47telling like 5-year-olds that you I mean
2:10:51like the mainstream media is telling
2:10:535-year-olds that uh you know you at
2:10:56least need to be thinking about your
2:10:57sexual identity you need to be starting
2:10:59to work this out for yourself like it
2:11:02just you know it's taking that kid and
2:11:05again get back to that idea of putting
2:11:07people in isolation it's drawing them
2:11:09away it's like any of the people around
2:11:11you who uh that even if they are
2:11:15supportive this is not theirs this is
2:11:18entirely yours you're when you when you
2:11:20you know this thing
2:11:21they might be in favor of it they might
2:11:23love all those kind of things it doesn't
2:11:25matter this is like you're by yourself
2:11:27dealing with this and everybody gets
2:11:28kind of pulled and broken apart and
2:11:30we're doing this at like basically as
2:11:33soon as kids can understand propaganda
2:11:35on TV or whatever like as soon as
2:11:37they're capable of being influenced by
2:11:39it we're we're pumping it into them you
2:11:41know because I'm GNA throw another
2:11:44Biblical reference here that's that's
2:11:46for some reason there mind I think
2:11:49you're pointing out something that on
2:11:50the natural scale like just you see as
2:11:53early as Genesis too where
2:11:56uh therefore a man shall leave his wife
2:11:59or his father and mother and like join
2:12:01his wife and two shall become a fles
2:12:03when when a man finds a woman he wants
2:12:05to leave his parents but in that
2:12:07structure obviously it's there's a
2:12:10there's a there's a natural want you to
2:12:11do that but yes you find you find your
2:12:13sexual partner you those those desires
2:12:15like point you in a Direction that's
2:12:16away from your parents you pursue this
2:12:18woman you uh you marry her so that
2:12:21happens and now you have the 5-year-old
2:12:23kids which is essentially the very
2:12:25diabolical to version of this where it's
2:12:27like you leave your father mother to
2:12:30cleave to something yes a person uh the
2:12:37natural way in which human beings are
2:12:40made by God they are this is just sort
2:12:41of weaponized in in a just awful way
2:12:44yeah and you know I think we're because
2:12:47we've only been doing this for a pretty
2:12:49short period of time where it's been
2:12:50this streem and getting kids started it
2:12:53like well I was told that like some
2:12:54Neanderthal was biner yeah I mean look
2:12:58maybe maybe not but it wasn't because
2:13:00there was like a neanderthal like
2:13:01propaganda agency set up to like get
2:13:03them to think that way when they're four
2:13:05years old you know like and so we'll see
2:13:08how the consequences of this play out
2:13:10but I mean we've already seen like when
2:13:13when not you know like I have my views
2:13:15that are you know pretty right-wing
2:13:18conservative when it comes to like all
2:13:20the sex ual Revolution stuff whether it
2:13:22has to do with abortion or anything else
2:13:24like um but at the same time like I look
2:13:27at a debate like that and is you know as
2:13:31as unsympathetic as a lot of the
2:13:33feminist pro-abortion types you know can
2:13:36can be like in a visceral sense like in
2:13:38a broader sense like I look at him I'm
2:13:40like man this is a you know this is a
2:13:43this is a very different and difficult
2:13:46world right that we've created here
2:13:48where it used to be that like a girl
2:13:51turned 15 and she started her period and
2:13:55her family starts looking for a husband
2:13:57you know and then she's married off by
2:13:58the time she's 17 and she's a mother now
2:14:01and that's what's going on or at least
2:14:03it's like pretty young the point is
2:14:05she's staying in her father's house
2:14:07until she's passed on to her husband and
2:14:09now she's in that environment and she's
2:14:11a maton of her own home and that's
2:14:14there's a smooth transition into that
2:14:15other phase of Life what we do now is we
2:14:18take kid even 20 years ago forget about
2:14:20all crazy stuff we're talking about now
2:14:22a 5-year-olds but even 20 years ago we
2:14:25tell a girl like leave your father and
2:14:27mother when you're 17 18 18 years old
2:14:31let's say when you get out of high
2:14:32school and like you go to college say
2:14:33you leave your father and mother and
2:14:36then there's just this sort of period
2:14:38maybe 20 years might be 20 years before
2:14:42you actually like get married finally
2:14:44and like really settle down but like
2:14:46it'll probably be 10 years and so you
2:14:49have this period where you have a
2:14:51sexually mature
2:14:53female who is just out in the world for
2:14:5710 15 20 years and it's like you know I
2:15:01mean think of like think about like
2:15:03certain consequences of that right like
2:15:04for one thing you have a woman going
2:15:06through like some of the most formative
2:15:08years of her life her 20s and 30s you
2:15:11know that period of like crunch time as
2:15:14as she's thinking about reproduction
2:15:16she's thinking about like you know just
2:15:17all the the pressures of becoming like
2:15:20who
2:15:21who who she ought to be you know because
2:15:23that's not handed to her in the way that
2:15:25it is in a traditional Society going
2:15:27through that whole period of her life um
2:15:30without like the support structure of a
2:15:32family first of all and so you know you
2:15:34say who are like those women going to
2:15:36vote for for example they're going to
2:15:37vote for people are going to take care
2:15:39of you know or promise to take care of
2:15:41them at least um and like like so you
2:15:44have like a consequence there you have a
2:15:46consequence of like okay a woman gets
2:15:48married she's 35 years old she started
2:15:51dating when she was 15 she's been
2:15:53sexually active for most of that time
2:15:56that means you know you're marrying a
2:15:58woman who basically by definition for
2:16:01the last 20 years every relationship
2:16:03she's been in has ended badly because if
2:16:06they hadn't then that guy would have
2:16:07been where you are right now right and
2:16:09so like they you know maybe like some of
2:16:11the breakups are more amiable than
2:16:12others or whatever but they're all
2:16:14disappointments they were all
2:16:15disappointments at least and a lot of
2:16:17them were a lot worse than that right
2:16:19they were betrayals or just whatever
2:16:20like you got like 20 years of that now
2:16:23and it's just this big space that's
2:16:25opened up because you know you sexualize
2:16:28somebody before you're going to
2:16:29transition them to a family environment
2:16:31and they're left out on their own and
2:16:33you know we put out things like I mean
2:16:36look it's
2:16:37like again like it's it's hard to
2:16:40sympathize with a lot of the activist
2:16:41types you know who are out there but
2:16:43like when there's uh a girl out there
2:16:47who's in her early 20s or something who
2:16:49is really just doing
2:16:51what everything she's been taught her
2:16:54whole life to sort of listen to is
2:16:56telling her to do you know she's going
2:16:58out she's sleeping with people like just
2:16:59just living her life you know like sex
2:17:01in the city or whatever like um even
2:17:04politicians will tell you that like you
2:17:05know it's perfectly virtuous empowering
2:17:07way to live right so she's just
2:17:09listening to her Society you know living
2:17:12the way that she's being told is like a
2:17:13fulfilling path you know on her life and
2:17:16her parents you know I mean they didn't
2:17:19take her to church when she was a kid or
2:17:20maybe they did on Christmas and Easter
2:17:21but that was it and you know her they're
2:17:24split up anyway you know her dad her mom
2:17:26and dad split up when she was 14 so like
2:17:29you know she has two stepparents now and
2:17:31whatever so it's not she can look back
2:17:33at that and think that she's sort of you
2:17:35know yeah she's listening to the society
2:17:38but she's breaking away she's not
2:17:40breaking away from anything you know um
2:17:42she's just in this environment and doing
2:17:44what she thinks she's supposed to be
2:17:46doing and then she's 23 or whatever and
2:17:49she gets knocked up by someone nightst
2:17:51or whatever and she wants to have an
2:17:52abortion it's like I that's not hard for
2:17:57me to understand you know in terms of
2:17:59like how she would feel about that and
2:18:01just like not want this to happen and
2:18:04you know I totally understand like how
2:18:07somebody would feel that way why they'd
2:18:08be so passionate about it you know but
2:18:11it's just it's one of those situations
2:18:12that just never would have existed in
2:18:13the past yeah that's our structures a
2:18:15society to create the conditions where
2:18:17the logic yeah oddly makes sense yeah
2:18:22and like we we changed all those
2:18:25conditions and yet people are are are
2:18:28are sort of you know they they sort of
2:18:29expect the old uh like mores and ways of
2:18:33looking at things just to hold up
2:18:34indefinitely right like you know like
2:18:37you're not like people like you know put
2:18:39up a graph of like a like people who
2:18:41have had premarital sex and like it used
2:18:44to be like 30% of people or something
2:18:47and now it's like 98% of people or
2:18:49whatever it is people are like oh is
2:18:51just an example of like the moral
2:18:52decline of America and da d d it's like
2:18:54yeah kind of um but it's also the fact
2:18:57that people used to get married when
2:18:58they were 20 and now you're asking him
2:19:00to abstain for 15 years and that's just
2:19:02not going to happen right it's not going
2:19:05to happen and like uh and if it does
2:19:08happen that person's probably going to
2:19:10be like probably going to be like you
2:19:13know uh struggling in other ways right
2:19:16where it's just like um and and again
2:19:19there's exceptions to that and that
2:19:20would be if you are one of the lucky few
2:19:23who are actually in a strong family and
2:19:25community and church environment that
2:19:27you're a part of like then you know
2:19:29people can can can uh lead that life and
2:19:33be healthy but then you know most of
2:19:34those people are probably married when
2:19:35they're 20 anyway so like um I mean you
2:19:39think about like how I mean just the
2:19:41idea of marriage and how you know it's
2:19:44become like a thing that if you think
2:19:47about like in any traditional Society
2:19:50right marriage was like you had two
2:19:54people who went to the sacred Gathering
2:19:57Place of their Community right to the
2:20:00church that their entire Community
2:20:02attended every every Sunday um they went
2:20:06there and the man who's like a natural
2:20:10leader in their community that people go
2:20:12to with their problems that they trust
2:20:13the priest you know the parish priest or
2:20:15whatever the pastor they go before that
2:20:18man and they make vows before God and
2:20:21everybody they
2:20:23know to make this Union work and you
2:20:26have her family over there and your
2:20:29family over here and this is like a
2:20:31union of these two families and it's
2:20:33important in that all of these things I
2:20:34mean this is something that bears
2:20:37tremendous weight okay now you take the
2:20:40take take it where you know the family
2:20:44over there and the family over there um
2:20:46you see them maybe once a year for
2:20:48Christmas both sides you look in a
2:20:50different state you know because you
2:20:52both went off to college somewhere um
2:20:54the priest is like if it's even a priest
2:20:56is like it's just a local you know
2:20:59whoever's closest or like just you know
2:21:01closest of a the the denomination one of
2:21:04you grew up with or something but it's
2:21:05not like this you know Community figure
2:21:08from those people um you just take all
2:21:10of those supports away and then say you
2:21:14know take this vow as seriously as it
2:21:17was always taken in the past and then
2:21:19you're disappointed when that doesn't
2:21:20happen and it's like that you know
2:21:22that's just not how it works like
2:21:24there's a reasonal like there's some
2:21:25people who like when I I I've talked
2:21:27people before about I said what I said
2:21:29earlier about how you know the church
2:21:31building and the vestments and the
2:21:33priests being on an elevated platform
2:21:35and the incense and the music that all
2:21:37this is like meant to like bring you up
2:21:39to like a a certain emotional and
2:21:41psychological state where you're
2:21:42available to like receive certain
2:21:44messages and to take something like uh
2:21:47the Holy Communion seriously and really
2:21:48feel it right it's not like you can just
2:21:51walk in off the street into a storefront
2:21:53church and he says hey how you doing
2:21:55here's some bread and wine like this is
2:21:57communion now you take that and this
2:21:59it's not how it works right you got to
2:22:01build up to that and the whole
2:22:02environment's built for that and there's
2:22:04some people that hear me say that and
2:22:05they think like oh you're saying it's
2:22:06like phony or it's somehow superficial
2:22:09I'm like no I'm saying like this is
2:22:11human this is how human beings work you
2:22:13have to you know that's and that's all
2:22:16this stuff like if you're not in an
2:22:17environment that supports all the things
2:22:20the Val values or whatever that you
2:22:22want to to
2:22:24sustain then you know the individual can
2:22:27do it in the breach but in general those
2:22:29things are going to fall apart over time
2:22:32it comes down to just how like we just
2:22:35had uh uh Professor theology on the Pod
2:22:40yesterday uh I don't know if it was
2:22:41released before this or after but he was
2:22:43talking Joe Ry yeah uh a new s Anders
2:22:45College up down at uh Moscow Idaho and
2:22:49he was we had a great discussion about
2:22:50just
2:22:52uh what what I would just summarize as
2:22:54the passionate age like people just led
2:22:56by their passions he specifically
2:22:58doesn't use the word emotion because he
2:23:00goes for something more ancient uh and
2:23:02yeah where the whole point is like if it
2:23:04makes you feel like you got married you
2:23:06got married right or if it makes you
2:23:08feel like it's uh communion it's
2:23:10communion but like it's an almost like
2:23:13bizarrely Gnostic approach to the world
2:23:15that forgets that no bread is real bread
2:23:18like a church is church and the organ
2:23:21sounds in a sounds in a unique way
2:23:23that's different from a guitar and smoke
2:23:26Machin or whatever you know like the
2:23:28vows that you take if you write them
2:23:30versus if they're the vows that the same
2:23:32people the same Christian people have
2:23:34taken for hundreds of years it matters
2:23:36like that's the world the reality is
2:23:38organized in such a way that it really
2:23:39matters not just how you feel but like
2:23:42what
2:23:44the a so come the accidents of reality
2:23:47that you're interacting with the levers
2:23:48and the buttons that you push on a daily
2:23:50basis it's like what those are yeah and
2:23:52now it's just like well it makes you
2:23:53feel like you did thing yeah and I mean
2:23:58you know people live their lives
2:24:01individually collectively um you know
2:24:04Nations govern themselves politically
2:24:06like just at every level uh we we lead
2:24:09our lives like at by bursts of emotion
2:24:13and and sort of in momentary enthusiasm
2:24:16like that's just the only thing that we
2:24:17can really think of to like you know
2:24:20motivate us toward any kind of like
2:24:22concerted action and obviously that's
2:24:24not something that's sustainable and so
2:24:25we're all over the place the very idea
2:24:27like you said like marriage is something
2:24:29that it's crazy for Americans or just
2:24:32Western people in general to think today
2:24:34that like throughout pretty much all of
2:24:36history marriages were arranged and you
2:24:38know that doesn't necessarily mean you
2:24:40were marrying somebody you never met
2:24:41before didn't want you know there's a
2:24:43lot of you know family politics that go
2:24:46on you probably have a say in it more
2:24:48than uh you know it gets Pres presented
2:24:50sometimes but still you know your
2:24:53families are arranging this and two
2:24:57people very often like are married and
2:25:00you know whereas like in the in the
2:25:02modern model uh you the honeymoon that's
2:25:05like the high point of your like marital
2:25:08emotion toward each other and then from
2:25:10there it's just sort of like a slow
2:25:12decline down to normal because this is
2:25:15like your person your spouse that you've
2:25:17been with for a long time live with and
2:25:19literally the formula of like their
2:25:20romcom is the Ser Ser serendipitous
2:25:23meeting in New York at the C yeah and it
2:25:25ends with uh you know whatever the
2:25:29winding path is ends with maybe the the
2:25:31wedding ceremony the end yeah yeah and
2:25:33people are Randomness ends with this
2:25:35weird ceremony yeah period and people
2:25:39are told that like that feeling should
2:25:42be sustained and it's the responsibility
2:25:45of the two people to make sure that it's
2:25:47sustained for the other person and if
2:25:48that feeling doesn't isn't sustain then
2:25:51that means that the other person is not
2:25:53doing their job in this relationship and
2:25:55I'm at Liberty to Break My Vow you know
2:25:57that's like the that's really like how
2:25:59people look at it and like you know I
2:26:03think like a much I wouldn't say that
2:26:05like I want us to go back to you know
2:26:07arrange marriages I think romantic love
2:26:09is um something that's been like a
2:26:11profound creative force in the west you
2:26:13know um going back a thousand years uh
2:26:17but um you know it's like like like I
2:26:21think a much more like lasting type of
2:26:24love and you see this a lot of times
2:26:25even with like uh older folks like our
2:26:27grandparents generation and before them
2:26:30like if you if you if you talk to them
2:26:31about it like what you find a lot of
2:26:33times is they got married and it was
2:26:35like not like a marriage of convenience
2:26:38but like you know you got to get married
2:26:40and so they get married and they grew to
2:26:42love each other over time you know by
2:26:44sharing each other's burdens and by
2:26:47watching the other person step up when
2:26:49they were weak and you know by uh just
2:26:52that Mutual exchange you know and and
2:26:55and sharing a responsibility that that
2:26:57goes with raising a family and holding
2:26:58up a household you over time gain a
2:27:01certain amount of like uh love that is
2:27:04much more you know it's it's um borders
2:27:08on profound respect more than like the
2:27:11sort of meet at the coffee shop kind of
2:27:14burst of enthusiasm kind of love that we
2:27:16think of but it's something that in a
2:27:18lot of ways I'm not in every way it's
2:27:21like much much deeper and it's much more
2:27:23solid you know but again it's one of
2:27:25those things that you have to start out
2:27:28with like a certain idea of what you're
2:27:30getting into and what the terms of the
2:27:32relationship are otherwise your
2:27:35expectations are going to warp the whole
2:27:37experience going forward you know well
2:27:39the Contemporary system just strips out
2:27:42all the context too where if you married
2:27:45someone from where you grew up at the
2:27:48very least you have boxes for the types
2:27:49of people who were there or your dad
2:27:51worked at this company even closer maybe
2:27:54you say I know your brother I knew your
2:27:56mom like I have all this background
2:27:58where I know you're not an insane person
2:28:00yeah versus if you rip someone and they
2:28:02just go to college and you have your
2:28:04college girlfriend and they just dropped
2:28:06to the sky you have no contacts for
2:28:10anything yeah and just like in Risk risk
2:28:13levels just off the chart compared to
2:28:16like a regional meeting and especially
2:28:18like and that's if you get married
2:28:19straight out of college like like if you
2:28:20get married when you're that's the best
2:28:22when you're 35 and she's 35 like that's
2:28:26I mean these days uh just because it's
2:28:28so you know economically prohibitive to
2:28:31start a family like for a lot of people
2:28:33like that's what we're seeing like
2:28:34millennial generation just getting
2:28:36pushing it later and later
2:28:38for totally understandable reasons in a
2:28:41lot of ways like when individual people
2:28:43are making their life decisions you get
2:28:45up to that point and it's like now not
2:28:47only she drop out of the sky like
2:28:51you are you know guy number
2:28:55X several of like whom like the previous
2:28:59ones have like cruy betrayed her have
2:29:04like you know corrupted her ability to
2:29:06like really for sort of let go and trust
2:29:09a male you know because like she's been
2:29:11cheated on or she's just whatever it is
2:29:14like you know that she's been through
2:29:15these experiences that like you know it
2:29:19it again this is just the world we live
2:29:20in there's no sense of like pining for
2:29:22the 1950s or whatever but these are like
2:29:26these are these are like uh real
2:29:28challenges people have deal with you
2:29:29know and it's not about like you people
2:29:31idiots on Twitter talking about like
2:29:33body counts or something has nothing to
2:29:35do with that it has to do with like what
2:29:37are her preconceptions going into this
2:29:39relationship what are the limitations um
2:29:42on the trust that she can give you and
2:29:44feel safe because of her experiences in
2:29:46the past all those things are radically
2:29:50Changed by all this you know and again
2:29:52like to go back what started this kind
2:29:54of detour I mean for God's sake like
2:29:58we're sexualizing kids now like in
2:29:59elementary school like not sort of in a
2:30:04sense of like uh you know we're looking
2:30:07the other way when Johnny wants to give
2:30:10Sally a valentine card or whatever and
2:30:12kind of like smiling at no no no we're
2:30:14like the institutions that we have set
2:30:16up to educate and raise these kids are
2:30:18actively sex actualizing them and so
2:30:22we're pushing that you know we're
2:30:23pushing that envelope back all the way
2:30:25as far as it can go basically and um you
2:30:29know I I think that like talk about like
2:30:32you know when we talk about England
2:30:33earlier and the European countries that
2:30:35are that are losing their their ancient
2:30:37homelands and how you know there are
2:30:40certain things that I think that at a
2:30:42certain point you just have to say no
2:30:44more and this stuff and I I I think that
2:30:49this topic is one where people do feel
2:30:52that way I think we're still in process
2:30:55of figuring out exactly what to do about
2:30:57it you know because that's the thing
2:30:58that the right always struggles with you
2:31:00know we um the right like right-wing
2:31:05politics for the
2:31:06last decade or two at least has
2:31:09basically
2:31:10been us trying to like basically begging
2:31:14the other side please give us another
2:31:18way to add address our concerns without
2:31:21imprisoning all of you or stringing you
2:31:24up from lamp post give us any other way
2:31:27because we don't want to do that like we
2:31:29value the Constitution we don't want to
2:31:31like radically destroy the country that
2:31:33like we grew up in all we don't all
2:31:35those things are important to us we
2:31:36don't want to give all those things up
2:31:38just give us something throw us some
2:31:40kind of a compromise that we can work
2:31:43with to feel like that you know that
2:31:46that's not our only option like that's
2:31:47been like right-wing politics like 20
2:31:49years
2:31:50and
2:31:51like it's kind of getting to the I mean
2:31:53it'd be very interesting to go back to
2:31:55like around like I can't remember it's
2:31:57been a long conversation it's kind of
2:31:59melded with our lunch conversation now
2:32:00but like uh you know you talk about like
2:32:03the manga Trump
2:32:04movement um you know it really does like
2:32:08kind of feel like it's the it's the it's
2:32:11the it's the last offramp you know it's
2:32:14like it's
2:32:16the it it it like we talked about
2:32:19diffusion like maybe one of the
2:32:20functional roles of Trump would be
2:32:23diffusing yeah well there's that but
2:32:25what I what I mean is like you know in
2:32:26that sense of like give us give us any
2:32:28other way other than just breaking our
2:32:31constitutional system or maybe resorting
2:32:33to violence to stop this because you're
2:32:35now pushing us to our limit you know
2:32:37when you are
2:32:38using state-own schools to sexualize our
2:32:425-year-olds uh when you are taking you
2:32:45know in Minnesota you're you're taking
2:32:49kids away from their parents for not
2:32:51allowing them to transition when they
2:32:53children like this this is like we're
2:32:57not going any further than this like and
2:32:58we're not tolerating what's already here
2:33:00like this is this has got to change or
2:33:02we can't live together anymore um that's
2:33:05where I think a lot of people are
2:33:07at and uh you know and I feel like and
2:33:10again I'm not I don't think Trump cares
2:33:12about this stuff that much that's not
2:33:13the point the point is the people who do
2:33:15care about it are united in a political
2:33:17Coalition that happens to be led by
2:33:19Trump right now now um and that uh that
2:33:22that
2:33:23movement is sort of the last off-ramp in
2:33:26the sense of like of those people being
2:33:28like you know like we're trying to deal
2:33:31with this politically in an in orderly
2:33:35manner you know we're trying to do this
2:33:37the way that it's supposed to be done
2:33:39the way we were always taught that it
2:33:40was supposed to we're trying to and so
2:33:43when they see what happens with you know
2:33:45whether it's all of the the lawfare that
2:33:48goes on when they see
2:33:50just the administrative State mobilizing
2:33:52against this guy and the whole movement
2:33:55just in really unprecedented you know
2:33:57ways that it's been weaponized against
2:33:59uh not just you know Richard Nixon say
2:34:02but like a lot of the general public you
2:34:04know uh is I mean is Ricky vaugh still
2:34:08in jail I think he's still in jail right
2:34:09yeah I mean it's just totally insane
2:34:11from like you know if you if you think
2:34:14about it it's not like uh you know
2:34:16Eugene Debs being put in jail by woodro
2:34:19Wilson during World War I which is bad
2:34:20enough but you know at least you can say
2:34:22this is like a you know a prominent you
2:34:25know socialist who's like out there
2:34:27trying to um you know demoralize people
2:34:29in time of war or whatever but this like
2:34:31regular people like where we're at so
2:34:33you got the laware you got that stuff
2:34:35you have like literally like in in broad
2:34:37daylight like intelligence agencies and
2:34:39law enforcement agencies like you know
2:34:42being weaponized against this political
2:34:44movement it's all and then you get to
2:34:46the election and you know things went
2:34:47the way they went in 2020 and we'll see
2:34:49they go in 2024 that you know I think
2:34:53we're at that last point where uh now
2:34:55this doesn't mean and this is where
2:34:57Charles and I sometimes disagree is like
2:34:59that doesn't mean then that like let's
2:35:02say they just you know Trump's way ahead
2:35:05in this upcoming election and then uh
2:35:09you know Georgia Michigan Wisconsin and
2:35:12Pennsylvania all announce at midnight
2:35:13that they're shutting down for the night
2:35:16and you wake up in the morning and
2:35:17they're way ahead and like nobody you
2:35:19know
2:35:20the explanations that you're given don't
2:35:21make any sense and the people who like
2:35:23uh you know um who who question you know
2:35:27the explanations that are given if
2:35:29they're not on X or getting banned from
2:35:31what all those things right let's just
2:35:32say all that happens again then I think
2:35:34like a lot of those people are I think
2:35:37most of those people are going to be
2:35:38done with all this they're going to look
2:35:40at and say there's no political solution
2:35:42now Charles will say yes exactly and
2:35:44then the next step is red Caesar or
2:35:47whatever spicy times I think yeah and
2:35:49it's like
2:35:50maybe um also though it may be that
2:35:53people just get profoundly demoralized
2:35:57and sort of withdraw from you know the
2:36:00the um the political game and like try
2:36:03to keep their heads down and and you
2:36:05know duck and hide from this regime that
2:36:08like at the end of the
2:36:10day you know it's not
2:36:12like actively going out hunting for
2:36:15people who aren't opposed to it you know
2:36:18it's it's
2:36:20actively hunting dissident and people
2:36:22who are opposed to it but like you can
2:36:24stay off its radar for the most part um
2:36:26unless you know you have a kid that gets
2:36:28told by his teacher he's trans and you
2:36:30don't want to give him puberty blockers
2:36:32and you're on the you're on the menu but
2:36:34like uh you know that could happen I and
2:36:37I think like you know in the absence of
2:36:41the Social Capital that would really be
2:36:42required to like like this is like the
2:36:44real service that Trump has provided
2:36:46forget everything else I don't care
2:36:48about any of the policies
2:36:50I don't really even care like you the
2:36:52fact that like the Overton window on
2:36:53many issues is moved like all that stuff
2:36:55is fine like it's fine and it's good um
2:36:59but what it's really done is it's
2:37:01brought all these people who had no
2:37:03reason to come together before it's
2:37:05brought them together and it's caused
2:37:07them to look to the left and look to the
2:37:08right and realize like oh okay these are
2:37:11my people I kind of see what they look
2:37:13like you know in a social sense like see
2:37:15like who these people are who are my
2:37:16people and um it at least opens up the
2:37:20possibility that those people can
2:37:22organize in the future you know now the
2:37:24danger you run into with any populist
2:37:26movement and this is you know this this
2:37:28is what makes me think that like like on
2:37:30one hand I think that there's just no
2:37:33way they would try to pull any
2:37:34Shenanigans again with the election like
2:37:37they don't have covid to take advantage
2:37:39of they don't you know several of the
2:37:41states that had these crazy ballad
2:37:43harvesting you know mail in ballot
2:37:45things going on have changed the rules
2:37:46so you can't do that um
2:37:50I don't like and plus everybody's
2:37:51watching now like everybody's watching
2:37:53like a hawk and like Twitter's now open
2:37:55and Twitter's open so I'm like on one
2:37:57hand and last time like you know yeah
2:38:00sure like people have overplayed it like
2:38:02crazy but uh on January 6 Nancy Pelosi
2:38:06was hiding under her desk like hoping
2:38:08that those people didn't come to that
2:38:10door like that's where that led last
2:38:11time and as much as it's been overplayed
2:38:13and everything she was hiding under her
2:38:16desk you know and so were the rest of
2:38:18those people and they saw how close it
2:38:20got at least in their own paranoid
2:38:22fantasies right and so they know that
2:38:24like if we push this again in broad
2:38:26daylight when people are expecting it
2:38:28when it'll have to be much more blatant
2:38:31because we can't you know say there's Co
2:38:33we need to just mail in ballots for
2:38:34infinite time whatever um the
2:38:37consequences could be really really bad
2:38:40and it might not be it just might not be
2:38:42worth it what we contain Trump for four
2:38:44years before we'll figure out how to do
2:38:45it again and then we'll move on like
2:38:48that makes me think maybe they'll just
2:38:49let it write it off on the other
2:38:52hand if they let Trump become president
2:38:55again you have four more years of these
2:38:58people the movement coming together
2:39:00these people getting used to each other
2:39:02organizing building up their own like
2:39:04internal structures to sustain this
2:39:07challenge over time to develop new
2:39:09leaders maybe JD Vance maybe other
2:39:11people step up but like other people who
2:39:13were going to pick that up and they look
2:39:15at that and they say you know like right
2:39:17now these people are real enthusiastic
2:39:19there's a ton of them but really they're
2:39:21just they're a bunch of people who are
2:39:23loyal to Donald Trump they're not loyal
2:39:25to any of these other people there's
2:39:27nobody else out there maybe with the
2:39:29possible exception of Tucker Carlson
2:39:31that could grab all these people and get
2:39:34them get him moving again like there's
2:39:36just nobody else out there with just the
2:39:39the personality and the cultural
2:39:41position to be able to do that and so if
2:39:43we can take this guy out just one more
2:39:45time whatever the consequences we deal
2:39:47with him then we can be done with this
2:39:49thing for good because those people are
2:39:51they're not going to follow some you
2:39:53know in 2028 when JD Vance comes and
2:39:55says I'm taking up the you know the
2:39:57mantle it's like he just doesn't have he
2:39:59hasn't had enough time in the public eye
2:40:01to build that up there's nobody like
2:40:02that off from Trump to yeah and so they
2:40:04might just say decide that like they
2:40:07might just decide that it's worth the
2:40:09risk you know it's possible that they do
2:40:11that um if I was advising them I would
2:40:13say just let it happen you know get them
2:40:15focused on I don't know some trade deal
2:40:18that you all really know needs to be
2:40:20reworked anyway and you can resist them
2:40:22on it and like you know pretend like
2:40:24you're F whatever but like you can Tain
2:40:26them once you can do it again um but uh
2:40:31you never know because I mean for these
2:40:33people like it really is like an
2:40:35existential fight and and and I don't
2:40:37think we should downplay either like as
2:40:39much as you know when we see like the
2:40:41the January 6 commission and all that we
2:40:43think these people are just like just
2:40:46Political Animals who are just sin
2:40:49weaponizing this you know this very
2:40:52minor riot in the context of 2020 you
2:40:55know the most probably the most minor
2:40:57Riot that took place
2:40:59in yeah like like that they're just
2:41:02cynically like weaponizing this it's
2:41:04like maybe that I think that is true for
2:41:07sure to a degree but I also wouldn't
2:41:10underestimate like you know the the
2:41:13feeling uh that these people had hiding
2:41:15under their desks in Congress like the
2:41:17humiliation of it the feeling of like
2:41:20who these people think they are you know
2:41:23these and and feeling like they need to
2:41:26overcompensate because of the
2:41:29humiliation they felt at at being made
2:41:31to cower like that and so I think
2:41:33there's a there's a lot of real um
2:41:35emotion behind it but also a real sense
2:41:38for a lot of these people that this is
2:41:39kind of an existential fight for them
2:41:42not that they're going to get strung up
2:41:43from lamp post or something but that
2:41:45they've turned it into that you know
2:41:46where um everything we've built
2:41:48everything that we've done whatever it
2:41:49is going to be you know destroyed of
2:41:51such and such and so you know that might
2:41:54that might take the breaks off what
2:41:56they're willing to
2:41:57do we've been going for a while but I
2:41:59did want to ask you this question kind
2:42:00of probably to wrap it all up uh you're
2:42:04we've talked about even just ending
2:42:06right now with ruling class talking
2:42:08about Elites even marriages people kids
2:42:12uh it's been awesome and that was all
2:42:13just when you asked me about
2:42:17Russia having a good time but as you've
2:42:20been as you read history you've you've
2:42:22read uh insane amount of history and
2:42:25particularly focusing on your podcast
2:42:27episodes on on unique episodes across
2:42:30across uh across time what constant if
2:42:34any have you seen like across Elites in
2:42:39history that you think and form you how
2:42:41you think today what constant do you see
2:42:44for how crowds behave what constant you
2:42:46know whether it's the aexs dealing with
2:42:49the with Spanish or Jonestown are there
2:42:52any that come to mind uh yes but um
2:42:59they the the some know goes like Spang
2:43:03larian here right sure like they um a
2:43:06civilization or a society has a a life
2:43:09course you know um it's born it uh
2:43:12starts to mature and express like the
2:43:15cultural character that you know is
2:43:18inherent in it it grows to maturity and
2:43:20then it begins to stultify and Decline
2:43:22and and eventually goes away or at least
2:43:24just um becomes a static thing right and
2:43:27so if you look at uh if you were to say
2:43:32like you know is um is ancient Rome like
2:43:37the United States right you'd say well
2:43:40if you're looking at Rome in 400 BC no
2:43:43it's nothing like the United States you
2:43:45get up to the part of you know Rome that
2:43:47kind of correlates with to where we're
2:43:49at on our trajectory and you start to
2:43:52notice a lot of similarities right and
2:43:55so you look at when you talk about
2:43:58Elites Elites for the past couple
2:44:00hundred years in the west has you know
2:44:02that's that's meant something very
2:44:03different than it meant in even the late
2:44:05medieval period right where um you know
2:44:09where a king was like literally expected
2:44:11not just to fight in battle but to ride
2:44:13with the Vanguard into battle like
2:44:15that's why he's King is because he is
2:44:17willing to do that if he's not willing
2:44:18to do that it's not going to be king for
2:44:20very long right that's a totally
2:44:22different
2:44:24um you know just I mean obviously right
2:44:28it's a totally different sensibility of
2:44:30leadership and who the elites are and
2:44:31how they relate to their people compared
2:44:33to somebody who uh either Rose through a
2:44:36bureaucracy or you know um even even
2:44:40when ceremonial yeah yeah right it's
2:44:43much more much more of a um much more
2:44:46abstract and much more dependent just on
2:44:49on the ceremony and the office of it to
2:44:51give them the aura of authority right um
2:44:53instead of just being I mean think about
2:44:55if you go all the way back right go back
2:44:57before like you know like you think
2:45:00about like State formation in general
2:45:02like way back right and you're like a
2:45:05this is like a pre you know premodern
2:45:08Neolithic or you know something you're a
2:45:10farmer and you know people starve to
2:45:13death in this world like that happens
2:45:15you have a bad Harvest you starve to
2:45:16death sometimes right and
2:45:19you have your family you have your farm
2:45:22and there's a bunch of lions that keep
2:45:23coming and they're killing all your
2:45:25livestock and that means your children
2:45:27are gonna starve if this doesn't stop
2:45:30but you're just this dude who has like a
2:45:32staff and maybe like a dagger or
2:45:34something right and there's a pack of
2:45:36lions and a bunch of Bad Dudes show up
2:45:39on Horseback and say where are the Lions
2:45:42you say over there and they go kill
2:45:43those
2:45:44Lions you're going to look at those guys
2:45:46and say that's the king all right Roger
2:45:49that like no problem like that is like
2:45:52as like as natural a form of leadership
2:45:55as you can imagine you know and now that
2:45:58guy might you know come and oppress you
2:46:00tomorrow or whatever and you know cause
2:46:02you to question his but still like that
2:46:04is an organic leadership structure if
2:46:06there ever was right and so you take you
2:46:09go all the way up to a point
2:46:11where uh you know where really it's just
2:46:13a matter of like you know the the the
2:46:16person the leadership class is deriving
2:46:18its Authority just entirely from the
2:46:21office itself and uh via the you know
2:46:25their ability to control a machine that
2:46:27they can use against you if you
2:46:29challenge them you know um it gives you
2:46:33a leadership class that not only
2:46:34different in character because they're
2:46:36you know they got there a different way
2:46:38but different in character because um
2:46:41like they themselves uh recognize their
2:46:44own lack of legitimacy you know they
2:46:47recognize it as much as you now these
2:46:49are the type of people usually the
2:46:50people who put forth the effort you know
2:46:52to get into a position like that who
2:46:55that recognition is subconscious you
2:46:57know and so they consciously they
2:46:59overcompensate for it in other ways but
2:47:03one of the things that you know you've
2:47:05seen and again this is like
2:47:06cross-cultural and it really is kind of
2:47:09is when you get to a a certain stage in
2:47:12society's development where you have an
2:47:14elite structure that is you know not
2:47:17like hereditary but it's the like the
2:47:21the the the the forms and processes that
2:47:25uh Elevate people to that level are sort
2:47:27of set in stone and and people rise up
2:47:29through these predictable uh
2:47:32ways um is that the leadership class
2:47:35starts to get like real weird and
2:47:38deviant and it's just it's happened
2:47:41again this is cross not only cross like
2:47:44National boundaries like other places in
2:47:45Europe it's crosscultural it's like you
2:47:47have the regular people out the
2:47:49countryside or in the towns who are
2:47:50families and living their lives and so
2:47:52forth and you have the elites who are up
2:47:55there in a place of real power who feel
2:47:59somewhat illegitimate in that position
2:48:01and need to prove to themselves like how
2:48:04how powerful they are or how above
2:48:07everybody else they are and a lot of the
2:48:09time the way they do that you've seen
2:48:10this again again and again um is through
2:48:13their uh willingness and ability to
2:48:16break moral standards that the rest to
2:48:18the society holds dear and because then
2:48:21that show I mean you think about it like
2:48:23you know to look at like an Epstein
2:48:25situation or
2:48:27something mean just you there was a uh
2:48:30there was a
2:48:32um a French author novelist I can't
2:48:35remember his name now um but he got put
2:48:38in jail maybe like seven or eight years
2:48:41ago for uh pedophilia and all of his
2:48:46books were novels about pedophilia you
2:48:49know literally one of his books was
2:48:51called like under 16 years old like that
2:48:53was the name of the book and it's just a
2:48:55pornographic novel apparently like um
2:48:57and that's what all his books are about
2:48:59and it was one of those things like
2:49:01Epstein where everybody knew that this
2:49:03guy was a pedophile and like nothing
2:49:05happened but then one day like for
2:49:07whatever reason you know whether it was
2:49:08a noble cop or maybe he you know looked
2:49:10up the wrong girl skirt or whatever it
2:49:12was um they decided to to snatch this
2:49:15guy up and he goes to prison and so the
2:49:16New York Times wrote up they're writing
2:49:18about this and the title of the article
2:49:21the news article was like um um a French
2:49:24novelist is on trial and so are French
2:49:27Elites something like that right and um
2:49:31they're quoting this guy they
2:49:32interviewed this novelist and basically
2:49:34what he's saying he's like genuinely
2:49:36outraged that this is happening and the
2:49:37reason for that is not because he didn't
2:49:39do these
2:49:40things is he's basically saying
2:49:43like I can name you a hundred people
2:49:45right now on up to the president of this
2:49:47country or whatever
2:49:49that have all I've watched them do this
2:49:52stuff you know I this is you know you I
2:49:55could start doing that you want me to do
2:49:57that and like that's the attitude he
2:49:58really had and like from his standpoint
2:50:00I can kind of understand the attitude
2:50:02like just from you know that you know
2:50:04very specific like way of looking at it
2:50:08and um and there was this one part in
2:50:10the New York Times article where it said
2:50:12uh and I'm going to you know not get the
2:50:14quote exactly right it's been a long
2:50:15time since I read it but the idea of
2:50:17it's really stuck with me is said um you
2:50:20know that people had overlooked what he
2:50:23was doing for a long time partly because
2:50:27of you know his connection to certain
2:50:29powerful people and so forth and his
2:50:31position in like uh French culture you
2:50:33know but also because uh for several
2:50:38centuries it has been like a mark among
2:50:41French Elites to sort of uh
2:50:45differentiate their status by living ACC
2:50:48according to a different code of
2:50:50morality than the rest of the public and
2:50:54you know the French are probably a
2:50:55little more hardcore than a lot of
2:50:57people but there that
2:51:00exists everywhere you know and um it so
2:51:06you you know what what does that do you
2:51:08think about like it creates this double
2:51:11this this double illegitimacy right
2:51:13where they already kind of know that
2:51:15they're just in power and have all this
2:51:17Authority and power even though you know
2:51:19especially like when you know our our
2:51:21our systems of that we have in place for
2:51:25like selecting and promoting leaders are
2:51:27so broken that like you're getting
2:51:29people up there who are really just
2:51:30common people you know like who are not
2:51:33remarkable you know this I think why a
2:51:36lot of the guys in Tech and stuff were
2:51:37finally starting to wake up and so
2:51:39they're just looking at these people and
2:51:40they like these people are running the
2:51:41Empire this is crazy these people are
2:51:43not smart they're really sycophantic
2:51:46narcissists who um are very good at you
2:51:50know certain types of in Social you know
2:51:53games and stuff but like um so you're
2:51:56selecting basically like people who were
2:51:58not remarkable putting them in positions
2:52:00of ultimate Authority in charge of just
2:52:05you know with their hands at the
2:52:06controls of vastly powerful systems and
2:52:08power over the lives of so many people
2:52:10and they kind of know that they're
2:52:12imposters and so that's something that
2:52:15they have to compensate for but then
2:52:19when one of the ways that they do that
2:52:21is by living you know again uh according
2:52:24to a different code of morality it
2:52:27places them in a in a situation where
2:52:30you know like for one thing it binds
2:52:33them together a little bit because it's
2:52:35like you know if these people knew what
2:52:37we were really about they would kill us
2:52:39all and like uh um you know it puts it
2:52:44you know puts them in a situation where
2:52:45it just it doubles their illegitimacy in
2:52:48a way you know and um and so know they
2:52:52phony Elites that are morally corrupt
2:52:55yeah and even if they don't look at it
2:52:56as morally corrupt necessary they know
2:52:58that everybody else the people they
2:52:59ruling and have power over there used to
2:53:01be one reason I'm not like these people
2:53:03now there are two reasons not like yes
2:53:05exactly and um you know I think uh we've
2:53:09gone a long ways toward you know
2:53:11normalizing just about any behavior that
2:53:13could be considered morally corrupt
2:53:15anymore other than you know other than
2:53:18not wanting to have your ancient
2:53:20Homeland taken from you by people from
2:53:22South Asia um everything else is pretty
2:53:25much left the normalized his perfectly
2:53:28moral behavior um but uh but not among
2:53:32the regular people it hasn't you know
2:53:34look I don't want to overplay that
2:53:36either you know Heartland America is
2:53:38deeply corrupted just like everybody
2:53:40else it has been impossible to avoid uh
2:53:44over over the last several decades but
2:53:47there's still like a
2:53:49um there's still there's still a seed in
2:53:52there that could regrow into something
2:53:54uh virtuous you know among among regular
2:53:58people and you see it and you see it in
2:54:00their reactions to you know the like
2:54:03again the stuff that like the
2:54:05sexualization of children has really
2:54:06been one of those things it's
2:54:09like like I know PE I take heart in this
2:54:12we maybe finish with this like I take
2:54:14heart in the fact there was this um
2:54:16there's this couple that I know very
2:54:17well um um were good friends they got
2:54:20married in my backyard right my house um
2:54:23really good friends know their their
2:54:24family known them since before they were
2:54:26married um know their kids um but we
2:54:30moved like to different states and just
2:54:31sort of lost touch we'd like say happy
2:54:33birthday every once in a while or
2:54:34something but um we just kind of like
2:54:37lost touch right we ended up back in the
2:54:38same place and I hadn't seen him like
2:54:41face to face for like 10 years and all
2:54:43the conversations that we had had in the
2:54:45interim were just like small talk online
2:54:47like catching up kind of like you know
2:54:48how are the kids that kind of stuff and
2:54:52um the the the wife she was a
2:54:55photographer and so my wife and I needed
2:54:56some wedding pictures taken before the
2:54:58wedding and so she was doing that for us
2:55:00and we started talking to her now these
2:55:04two they
2:55:06were
2:55:07like I mean I wouldn't say like like
2:55:10they were
2:55:12apolitical just in the extreme I mean I
2:55:15would like just you couldn't it would
2:55:18have been like completely insane for
2:55:20them to say any political statement like
2:55:23when I he was in a band she was a
2:55:24photographer you know they were just the
2:55:28best people like the best people but for
2:55:29them to like make a comment on the
2:55:31election coming up or on some it just
2:55:34would have the record would have been
2:55:36like screeched to a stop like huh like
2:55:38that's just not something ever would
2:55:40have come out of their mouth she when
2:55:42the wife was there with us she couldn't
2:55:45get through the first 10 minutes of our
2:55:47visit for just going off about stuff
2:55:51that's going on in school with the kids
2:55:53and like the just all the things that
2:55:54like are and like there's a lot of
2:55:56people like that and I was like oh wow I
2:55:58was like if they've radicalized these
2:56:00two they've radicalized a lot of people
2:56:03that you thought before were like
2:56:04totally checked out you know and I've
2:56:06noticed that more and more and more um
2:56:09you know uh as people have you know
2:56:12again like I think that a big part of
2:56:14why because you think about like the way
2:56:16these cultural changes happen right is
2:56:18like you have a Young Generation a big
2:56:21Young Generation like the Boomers of the
2:56:23Millennials um big enough to sort of
2:56:26overwhelm the culture once they start to
2:56:28come of age and you know kids are
2:56:31rebellious kids want to change things
2:56:33they want to push envelopes and stuff so
2:56:34in 1960s they're doing it but then like
2:56:38they turn like 25 and they get married
2:56:40and they move on and become yuppies and
2:56:43stuff and then you're electing Ronald
2:56:44recken
2:56:45right well the Millennials had that same
2:56:48thing going on only their period before
2:56:51they actually settled down and started
2:56:53thinking about things like what the
2:56:54teachers are teaching our kids and stuff
2:56:57was like an extra 10 years you know it's
2:56:59like going into their 30s and like late
2:57:0130s and so it's like that the the whole
2:57:04period of like just just Rebellion
2:57:06Revolution cultural change and
2:57:08everything has had like a lot more
2:57:10Runway but I think we're getting to the
2:57:12end of that Runway you know um there we
2:57:16still have to deal with uh you know the
2:57:18childless cat ladies as uh as uh yeah
2:57:22Caesar Vance says but um um you know
2:57:26there's still going to be a force that
2:57:28we have to deal with uh but I think that
2:57:30you know sort of the last bit of those
2:57:32Millennials are finally starting to get
2:57:34to that stage in their life where
2:57:35they're starting to think about things
2:57:36it usually turns people in a more
2:57:38conservative direction if only like you
2:57:40know in in
2:57:42their approach to things you know and
2:57:44their in their in their sensibilities
2:57:46so let's hope
2:57:48yes and so that means now is the time to
2:57:51attack darl this has been awesome where
2:57:54uh should
2:57:55people go listen to you or read your
2:57:58your stuff I mean if people have not
2:58:00gotten their fill of listening to me in
2:58:03this conversation that would be a
2:58:05surprise but um I I've got a History
2:58:09podcast called martyr maid where um if
2:58:11this happens to be your thing and you've
2:58:13enjoyed this show then you can hear me
2:58:15talk for sometimes depending on the
2:58:16episode like s hours at a time so uh
2:58:20it's called the Martyr made podcast I do
2:58:23uh another podcast with my friend jao
2:58:25willink called the unraveling where we
2:58:27talk about usually more modern history
2:58:30and uh and politics a little bit more um
2:58:34and if you really really like me and you
2:58:36would like to help support the podcast
2:58:38go to Martyr made. substack
2:58:46[Music]
2:58:48to this episode of the new founding
2:58:50podcast new founding has become a
2:58:52rallying point for Founders and
2:58:53investors who are taking serious bets in
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2:59:01Dynamic companies powered by American
2:59:03ideals and a positive National Vision
2:59:05these are the kinds of Founders that
2:59:06embody the optimism and competence of
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2:59:15Venture fund and follow the link to
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2:59:32[Music]

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This page contains the full transcript of The State of the West - Darryl Cooper (Martyr Made) | #51 by New Founding Podcast, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 33,130 words across 4,571 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

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