YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → The Quitting Expert: Quit NOW Before AI Makes The Choice For You, This Is a Superpower! | Seth Godin

The Quitting Expert: Quit NOW Before AI Makes The Choice For You, This Is a Superpower! | Seth Godin — Transcript

by The Diary Of A CEO · 22,248 words · 3,185 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00How do I know when to quit something?
0:02>> It's okay. You can quit things.
0:04>> Hang on a minute. When I went to the gym
0:05this morning, there was the Michael
0:07Jordan quote.
0:08>> If you [music] quit once, it becomes a
0:10habit. Never quit. He's wrong. And it's
0:13very clear that he's wrong. And I've
0:15failed more times than most people are
0:16listening to this. And the simple secret
0:18for the power of quitting is the dip.
0:20And the dip describes something in the
0:21world that no one talks about. And so,
0:23one of the things I try to do is help
0:25people understand it. Because my whole
0:27career is about how can I help people do
0:29better, find [music] why they're stuck,
0:31realize what's holding them back, go
0:32solve the problem. Because problems are
0:34opportunity. And I believe all problems
0:36can be solved. But what we're wrestling
0:38now with is people are afraid. People
0:40are lonely. People are disconnected.
0:42They're victims of all sorts of media
0:44and commercial systems. And we've been
0:46indoctrinated to not notice it.
0:47>> So I really want to just focus in on
0:49people who feel stuck right now.
0:51>> So there's this [music] philosophy which
0:52is the key to figuring out our
0:54stuckness. The donkey is trapped halfway
0:56[music] between the water and the
0:58carrot. The donkey is thirsty and
1:00hungry, but he's unwilling to move away
1:02[music] from either of the things he
1:03wants. So, he starves to death and he
1:05dies of thirst. And all of us do this
1:07and we do it with one simple word, but I
1:10want to run the marathon, but I don't
1:12want to get tired. I want to have a job
1:13that fulfills me, but [music] I also
1:15like this car and this house. And so, I
1:17can give you tools that can help you
1:19overcome resistance. And also I can give
1:21you the mechanics to become the person
1:23your future self thanks you for.
1:24>> And then the skill of overcoming shame
1:26or embarrassment [music] might be one of
1:28the most important skills in the modern
1:29world today. How do I get better at
1:30dealing with that?
1:31>> So let me try to make it really simple.
1:33>> The floor is yours.
1:34>> So
1:37this is super interesting to me. My team
1:38given me this report to show me how many
1:40of you that watch this show subscribe.
1:41And some of you have told us according
1:43to this that you are unsubscribed from
1:45the channel randomly. So, favor to ask
1:47all of you, please could you check right
1:48now if you've hit the subscribe button,
1:50if you are a regular viewer of the show
1:51and you like what we do here. We're
1:53approaching quite a significant landmark
1:54on this show in terms of a subscriber
1:56number. So, if there was one simple free
1:58thing that you could do to help us, my
2:00team, everyone here to keep this show
2:02free, to keep it improving year over
2:04year and week over week, it is just to
2:06hit that subscribe button and to double
2:07check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll
2:09ever ask of you, do we have a deal? If
2:11you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do.
2:12I'll make sure every single week, every
2:15single month, we fight harder and harder
2:16and harder and harder to bring you the
2:17guests and conversations that you want
2:19to hear. I've stayed true to that
2:20promise since the very beginning of the
2:21D ofio and I will not let you down.
2:24Please help us. Really appreciate it.
2:26Let's get on with the show.
2:28[music]
2:31Seth Golden, for my audience who have
2:34just clicked on this conversation, my
2:36question to you is by the time this
2:38conversation is done, what do you hope
2:40that they're going to come away with?
2:42What questions in their life are they
2:43going to have answers to?
2:45>> Some of your best guests are world
2:47experts and they show up and they say,
2:49"I did the research. I did the math. Do
2:51this because I told you to." And I've
2:54never done that. I show up and I try to
2:57paint a picture for people of what the
2:59words mean and what the systems are like
3:01and then encourage you to do things
3:02because you told.
3:05And so what I think we're wrestling now
3:08with is people are afraid. People are
3:10lonely. People are disconnected. They're
3:12victims of all sorts of media and
3:15commercial systems. And we've been
3:17indoctrinated to not notice it. And
3:20there are problems all around us. And if
3:21we can solve problems, we can make
3:23things better. So what I want to help
3:25people do is find the words to talk
3:28about their problem, realize what's
3:30holding them back, go solve the problem.
3:32Because when we solve problems, we make
3:34things better for ourselves and for
3:35other people. So problems aren't
3:38something to be avoided. Problems are
3:39are opportunity.
3:41And I believe all problems can be
3:43solved. Some things aren't problems.
3:46They're situations and you have to live
3:48with them. But if it's a problem, it
3:50means there's a solution. And I would
3:52like to help people find the vision and
3:55the words to see where they're stuck,
3:58why they're stuck, and whether it's a
4:00problem or a situation. If it's a
4:01problem and someone's going to benefit
4:03from you solving it, I hope I can give
4:05you the mechanics, the tools, the
4:07vocabulary to go move forward toward
4:10better.
4:11>> And what kind of problems specifically
4:14do you try and solve for people in your
4:15work, but also in this more recent book
4:17that you've just written called the not?
4:20>> So, I don't solve problems for people,
4:22they solve problems for themselves. And
4:24when someone points out to you
4:27where the problem is, you can now make a
4:29new decision. Right? So if someone's
4:32applying for college, it's super easy if
4:34you're 17 years old to get all hung up
4:36on I'm about to be judged. How are they
4:38going to know the real me? What if I get
4:39rejected? Am I a loser? Have I wasted my
4:41whole life? But once you see the college
4:43industrial complex, once you understand
4:46the agenda of the admissions office,
4:48once you realize what people are looking
4:50at and why, you say, "Oh, this is a
4:53game. This is a game like Settlers of
4:55Katan or Monopoly. And if I win this
4:57game, it's not because I'm a good
4:59person. It's because I played the game
5:00better. If I lose the game, same thing.
5:03Once you see that, all the drama and
5:06entanglement of applying for college
5:09moves to the side. You say, "What's in
5:11it for the admissions officer to see the
5:13person I want to present to them?
5:15Because if I can solve their problem,
5:17I'm going to go to the school I want to
5:18go to." Well, that's true in so many
5:21parts of our lives. is there. We engage
5:24with a system or a person or a boss or a
5:27co-orker or spouse and we think we're
5:30right. We've got all this noise in our
5:32head. We think everyone can hear the
5:33noise in our head. They can't. We think
5:35everyone wants what we want. They don't.
5:39And so we show up saying, "It's my turn.
5:42I need to get this." And now we have a
5:45problem. And the reason we have a
5:46problem is because that other person
5:48thinks they're as right as we think
5:49we're right. And they have a different
5:51problem. So we're colliding. But if we
5:54can see that all of this is a dynamic
5:58within family systems, corporate
6:01systems, commercial systems,
6:03we can understand what are the forces at
6:05work. Now that we see them, we can use
6:08them to get to where we want to go.
6:10>> You know, it's funny because I I go out
6:12into the world and I I sit in taxis and
6:15I I walk down the street and people come
6:16up to me and I get sort of an idea of
6:18the personas of people watching. And
6:20because I get in a lot of taxis, I have
6:21a lot of conversations with taxi
6:23drivers. So, they're one persona in my
6:24head. And then, you know, the other is
6:25maybe like a a mother with with with a
6:28kid or two who's trying to make a change
6:30in in their sort of later career. For
6:32those people, the average person
6:34listening right now,
6:36>> where is it that they want to go to? And
6:38I don't mean specifically, I don't mean
6:39job. Where is it that they want to go to
6:41and where are they?
6:42>> Right? I think most people we meet would
6:45like to be seen, missed if they are
6:48gone, understood, and of use. Right?
6:53That's something that's crosses borders
6:55and cultures. And yet we end up being a
6:58cog in a system. The Uber driver racing
7:01around doing things they wouldn't
7:02ordinarily do because the system is
7:04pushing them to cut every corner. or the
7:06mom who's struggling because the
7:09financial system that she's stuck in is
7:12pushing her away from the kind of work
7:15or parenting she wants to do. And many
7:18of those things are injustices and some
7:20of those things cannot be fixed by an
7:21individual. We can accept those as
7:23situations. You're not going to change
7:25Uber. Uber is going to be the way Uber
7:27is going to be. And if you choose to be
7:28an Uber driver, the rules of Uber come
7:30with it. But other things are things
7:33where we get to make a choice. And I'm
7:36not saying I want to be really clear.
7:38I'm not saying anyone deserves an
7:40injustice. Anyone deserves where they're
7:43are right now. But given who you are,
7:45given where you are, what are the
7:48choices you do have? And how do we get
7:51out of the not the stuckness of wanting
7:55two things that we can't have at the
7:57same time? Because it's when we want two
7:59things at the same time that cannot
8:01coexist that we feel stuck. And that
8:05feeling of stuckness robs us from the
8:08chance to be of use. It robs us from the
8:10chance to get to that place that deep
8:12down we want to go. So I use the word
8:14purpose and what I mean by that is not
8:16you're born with a purpose because I
8:18don't think you were. But you can choose
8:21with intent the purpose of whatever
8:23you're going to do tomorrow. That
8:24purpose might be I need to get paid.
8:27That purpose might be I need to get this
8:28date. That purpose might be I need to
8:30put something on the internet that
8:32changes the lives of a thousand people.
8:35When you say your purpose out loud, the
8:37purpose of this work is so and so. Then
8:40I say back to you the very first
8:41question which is the key. Who who is
8:44this for? Is it for everyone or is it
8:48for 12 people or a thousand people? What
8:51change are you here to make and for who?
8:54And if we can't figure out who the who
8:56is, then we feel like there's just this
8:58amorphous horrible heavy blanket on us
9:00trapping us. But if you can find the
9:02five people you can solve a problem for
9:04or the 25 people who would miss you, it
9:07starts to work. So, let me give you a
9:08quick story to help you understand the
9:10analogy. You're a stand-up comic. You've
9:13been working really hard. Um, and your
9:15agent calls, I got a great gig. So, you
9:17go and there's 100 people there and you
9:19bomb. Not one laugh for 10 minutes. And
9:22you leave the stage. Then you find out
9:25it's a tour group from Italy and no one
9:28in the room speaks English.
9:30So, who bombed? Right? It's your agent
9:32who put you in the wrong room. There was
9:34nothing wrong with your jokes. It was a
9:36mismatch because the audience didn't
9:38speak English. So, you're allowed to
9:40say, "It's not for you." When we show up
9:44to try to engage with someone it's not
9:46for, if we read the comments, if we read
9:48the reviews, and someone gives a great
9:51book a one-star review,
9:53all that one star review says is, "This
9:55book wasn't for me." That's all they
9:56needed to write. Nothing else in the
9:58review is helpful because someone else
10:00thought it was five-star book. So the
10:02author has learned nothing. So we pick
10:05who it's for. What is our intent? This
10:08person I'm going to help. I'm going to
10:10trade with. I'm going to engage. I'm
10:12going to sell to or whatever. Who
10:14exactly? What do they believe? What do
10:16they want? What are they afraid of? If I
10:19can solve their problem,
10:21they're going to want to engage. And I
10:24can be of use. And then I can do it
10:26again. and then I can do it again.
10:28>> Is this a point about getting unstuck in
10:30your current situation? Is it come right
10:33back to who you want to serve, their
10:37persona, what their needs are, and then
10:39focusing on that? Cuz I'm thinking again
10:40about this Uber driver who feels
10:42somewhat powerless in their life. They
10:43they they think I've got to sell my time
10:45to make this much money, but I'm not
10:47satisfied and I'm not fulfilled. So, how
10:49does what you've just said sort of
10:50dovetail into that person's life?
10:53So people sometimes call me a marketer
10:55and I had the luxury of starting my
10:58career right when television was dying.
11:00So before that marketing meant big
11:02companies buying ads, interrupting
11:04people, hustling them etc. And then it
11:07shifted. So I got to define marketing as
11:10anything I wanted. And I have defined
11:12marketing as telling a true story to the
11:15right people in a way that helps them
11:17get where they want that they will tell
11:19their friends about. If you do those
11:21steps, you're not doing any of the icky
11:23part. You're being of service. And you
11:26don't have to have a budget to do this.
11:28We are all marketing. When you walk in
11:30in tatty jeans to a job interview at an
11:33investment bank, you've just marketed
11:35yourself by your clothing, right?
11:38There's a signal that you chose to send
11:40and that they will receive or not
11:41receive. So when we think about the
11:45agency, the freedom that each of us
11:47have, we have the freedom to decide who
11:51we're going to show up for and what's
11:52the story that's built in. So back to
11:54this Uber driver, if you want to make a
11:57living driving a car and meeting
11:59interesting people, one thing you could
12:01do is give up all of your freedom to
12:03Uber and let them find you, the
12:05passengers. But the other thing you
12:08could do is realize that there are 75
12:10people who live in this suburb of your
12:12town who need to get somewhere reliably
12:15and safely and would be delighted to
12:17have you be their driver. And when you
12:21hand out the right cards to the right
12:23people, making it clear what you do and
12:25don't do and who you do it for and don't
12:27do it for, getting to 15 regular
12:30customers is not out of reach
12:32>> as a private chauffeur.
12:33>> Yeah. that path is a better use of his
12:36tomorrow
12:37>> than [clears throat] simply being ground
12:39out by some social media company or or
12:43ride sharing service.
12:44>> Bringing it back to this this rope thing
12:46over here because I really want to just
12:48focus in on people who feel stuck right
12:50now. The essence of where I'm trying to
12:51go to this conversation is I want to
12:53speak to people that currently feel
12:54stuck but they know that they're capable
12:56of more. They know that they could have
12:57another life, but they practically don't
12:59understand, I guess, both the
13:00psychology, the systems, the mechanisms,
13:03and I guess what they can control in
13:05order to move from where they are to
13:07where they want to be.
13:07>> Right.
13:08>> There's a rope here. Yeah.
13:09>> And it serves as a somewhat interesting
13:11analogy for I guess being stuck and
13:15pulling on the wrong thing.
13:17>> Yeah. You sound like a magician. Yeah.
13:18Okay.
13:19>> I mean, do you know the analogy? Because
13:20I don't.
13:20>> Yes, I do. So, 2,500 years ago, this guy
13:24named Alexander. who didn't have a last
13:25name yet, showed up outside of a small
13:28village in Turkey and there was a legend
13:30from King Midas. There was a wagon there
13:33and it was tied with a complicated knot.
13:36And the legend was whoever could untie
13:38this knot would become the ruler of huge
13:42parts of Europe. And Alexander was 21
13:45years old and he did not use a knife. He
13:47did not cut anything. But he looked at
13:49this knot that was tied to the wagon and
13:53he did one thing that no one before him
13:55had ever done. He realized that there
13:57was a pole in the center of it that it
13:59was tied around and he removed
14:04the pole and then he could see by
14:07looking very carefully how the whole
14:10knot was held together
14:13and he could untie it with no trouble
14:14whatsoever.
14:16And then he became Alexander the Great
14:18because the secret the simple secret was
14:22we are stuck because we can't see what's
14:26holding us there. If what's holding us
14:29there we cannot change like gravity is
14:31holding us to earth. Gravity is not a
14:33problem. Gravity is a situation. Going
14:35to the moon doesn't deny gravity. It
14:38works with the fact that it exists. But
14:41we are working with problems, but we're
14:46confused
14:47because we want two things. So, can I
14:50show you what I mean?
14:51>> Yeah.
14:51>> Okay. So, here's an actual carrot and
14:55here is actual water. This is not
14:58actually a dunkey, but let's pretend
15:01this is a dunkey. Okay. In Burden's
15:04philosophy experiment from a couple
15:06hundred years ago, the dunkey is hungry
15:08and thirsty. He has complete freedom. He
15:11can move. And he's halfway between a
15:14pile of carrots and a bucket of water.
15:17And he's trapped because every time he
15:19moves toward the water, he's moving away
15:21from the carrot. Can't do that cuz he's
15:22hungry. And every time he moves toward
15:24the carrot, he's moving away from the
15:25water. Can't do that because he's
15:27thirsty. And so in the experiment,
15:29because we're trapped, we end up dying
15:32of hunger and thirst. And all of us do
15:35this. And we do it with one simple word
15:39which is but. I want this but I also
15:43want that. Right? I want to have a
15:47creative life but I never want to get
15:49rejected. I want to run the marathon but
15:53I don't want to get tired. And we hide
15:56the butt. We don't say the butt out
15:57loud. So my favorite story which I talk
16:00about in the book is Jackson Pollock. So
16:03Jackson Pollock was the most famous
16:05painter in America in the 1940s about 80
16:09years ago. He was on the cover of Life
16:11magazine. He had three years where he
16:13could do no wrong. His paintings were
16:17snapped up. Everyone saw him as a little
16:20bit of a hero. It's very unusual for an
16:22artist to be a hero in their own
16:23lifetime.
16:25And his wife Lee Kraner later said that
16:28he felt like he had done everything he
16:29could do with this cycle of art. And
16:32what most people in that situation would
16:34have done is become a Jackson Pollock
16:36cover band. Paint more versions of his
16:38old paintings. Take the money. You've
16:40won. He wanted to be a brilliant
16:44creator. He wanted to be on the
16:46frontier. So he stopped painting Jackson
16:49Pollock paintings. He went to a studio
16:51and came up with a whole new style.
16:54Different size canvas, different
16:55approach. It didn't look like Jackson
16:57Pollock had done it. and he brought it
17:00to this big show and the world yawned.
17:03Not one piece sold. And to this day, if
17:06you go to a museum, you will probably
17:07not see a second cycle Jackson Pollock.
17:11This led him to become even more of a
17:15substance abuser, which led to him dying
17:17in a tragic car crash that killed
17:19somebody else as well. Because Jackson
17:22Pollock wanted two things. He wanted to
17:24live on the frontier and be the creative
17:27artist on the cutting edge, but he also
17:30wanted to be the celebrity who could
17:32sell everything he made and was seen as
17:33a genius. He forgot how many years it
17:36took the first Jackson Pollock to
17:38accomplish that. And because the second
17:40Jackson Pollock didn't hit, the butt
17:43became really loud in his head. You
17:46can't have two of these things if they
17:48are diametrically opposed. We need to
17:50find where is the butt. I want this
17:52butt. I want that. It's usually hiding
17:54as an and but once we see it, once we
17:57say, "Oh, that is what is keeping me
17:59from giving the people I'm trying to
18:01serve what they need. That's why I'm not
18:03getting where I need to go." We can
18:07remove the pole,
18:09see the entanglements, see what we're
18:11measuring wrong, forgive them, make a
18:14new decision, and the problem goes away.
18:17>> And you can substitute and, you're
18:19saying, instead of but. The and is the
18:22thing that emphasizes it. I want to be a
18:23creative person and I'm eager to be
18:26rejected and not people have people get
18:28the joke for a while and have to live in
18:30the back of my van because that's what
18:32creative people do. That's part of it. I
18:34get that. I want to be popular on social
18:37media. And that means I can't be honest
18:40and authentic and consistent because I
18:43got to keep chasing X, Y, or Z. And when
18:46we look at the people who consistently
18:48get big clicks, that's what they're
18:50doing. They're not saying, "This is who
18:52I am." They're going to chase the next
18:54thing. If you're not happy with that,
18:55please don't do it. But the and
18:59amplifies the work, but undercuts it.
19:03There should be a button just down below
19:05here. And if it says subscribed, you're
19:07already subscribed. If it says
19:08subscriber, that means you're not yet.
19:11And if you're not subscribed, please
19:12could you do us a favor and hit that
19:13button? It helps the show more than you
19:14know. And according to the algorithm,
19:16you're someone that watches our show,
19:18but you haven't yet hit that button.
19:19Thank you so much. There's people
19:21listening right now that are maybe they
19:24got three kids under the age of seven.
19:26I'm thinking about my brother. He's got
19:27three kids under the age of seven.
19:29>> And they also want to launch a company,
19:33>> right? And they they might feel that
19:36there's a tension between those two
19:37things because they on one hand want to
19:39be the best dad on earth like my brother
19:40wants to be but at the same time they
19:42really want to launch that AI startup.
19:45>> Yeah.
19:45>> Now these two things are tugging at each
19:47other.
19:47>> Correct.
19:48>> What do they do?
19:49>> Well, the first thing they did was
19:50really important. They named it.
19:52>> Okay.
19:52>> Okay. Second thing can't do two things
19:56at the same time, but you can do many
19:57things over time.
19:59And what that means is he made a
20:01commitment to three small humans in this
20:03moment. He's going to go to work, but he
20:06can't go to work for 100 hours a week.
20:08So he needs to pick a project where the
20:12amount of time he has is enough time to
20:14do the project really well. He cannot
20:17start an open AI competitor. It is off
20:19the table. That is impossible because
20:22the thing he's committed to cannot
20:24coexist with that.
20:26>> That's hard to admit,
20:28>> right? But it unlocks the door to what
20:30we can do. If he can figure out how to
20:33build an entity where he's not hiding,
20:35where he's actually showing up on the
20:37hook to a group of people and say, "I
20:39know more about AI than you, and I'm
20:41going to use this tool to do X, and they
20:43pay him for it."
20:45Now, at the end of a 40-hour week, he
20:47appropriately goes and does the work of
20:50a dad, right? That's a business that's
20:53creating value for people that will make
20:55you more profit than OpenAI made last
20:57year, right? So the point I'm making is
21:01media keeps showing up and saying what
21:02you're supposed to do is be a
21:04Kardashian. What you're supposed to do
21:05is be Sam Alman. No, that's not what
21:07you're supposed to do. You're supposed
21:09to make promises and keep them for the
21:11smallest audience. That's enough. You
21:14can't maximize two things that use the
21:17same space. Do you think it's possible
21:20to know if a motivation or a goal or a
21:24dream you have or an ambition you have
21:26is real or not? And when I say real, I
21:29mean like did I just inherit this from
21:31expectations from Instagram or from my
21:33family or because my brother-in-law is
21:35rich and I want to kind of compete. Is
21:37there a way to know if my my the goal I
21:39say I want is a real one?
21:41>> Yeah, I love this. This is brilliant.
21:43This gets back to the idea of purpose.
21:45What is the change you seek to make with
21:48the next cycle of your effort? Not your
21:51purpose on earth, but the purpose of the
21:53work you're about to do. Are you trying
21:54to make Mark Zuckerberg happy? Are you
21:56trying to make an anonymous commenter
21:58happy? Are you trying to teach troll a
21:59lesson? Because when you say that out
22:01loud, you realize that's a ridiculous
22:03purpose and a trap.
22:05>> If [clears throat] we can be clear,
22:06what's in it for me? If I put this time
22:10in, what will I get in return?
22:13So my company has 75 people, let's say,
22:16and should I grow to have 250 people?
22:19Well, what would be in it for me to be a
22:21CEO of 250 people instead of 75 people?
22:24>> You're going to have a bigger headache.
22:26You're going to have more money
22:27theoretically.
22:27>> Theoretically, but what you're really
22:29going to earn is a different kind of
22:30status. You have to decide if that
22:32status boss of more people that status
22:36what I get to say at the cocktail party
22:38that status of what could happen after
22:39that is worth the price you're going to
22:42pay to do this or not. And so we keep
22:46making these choices about what is the
22:48purpose of this work. And that leads to
22:51the key from Steve Presfield which is
22:53resistance. And resistance is any
22:57feeling we have that keeps us from doing
23:02generous generative creative work of any
23:05kind. So for example, writer's block is
23:08resistance. For example, you're going
23:10out on a date and you change your outfit
23:12six times. Resistance shows up in so
23:15many of the things we do. And the
23:17systems around us indoctrinate us
23:20because they want us to be cogs in the
23:22system. They want us to say, "Well, how
23:24do I get an A? How do I get permission
23:25to do X, Y, or Z? I'm not going to
23:27initiate anything.
23:29So, it's easier for your brother to deal
23:33with the resistance in his head by
23:35saying, "I'm stuck." than it is for him
23:37to say, "I changed the lives of 17
23:39people this weekend." Whereas, if we
23:42kept drilling into what's your purpose,
23:45I think he would say, "Yeah, changing
23:46the lives of people is more important to
23:48me than making Business Week magazine
23:51happy because I built some company." Is
23:53it useful to try and name the resistance
23:56in order to overcome it?
23:57>> You can't make resistance go away ever.
24:02You can dance with it. You can invite it
24:04in for tea. You can name it. You can say
24:07the reason I'm hesitating to do this is
24:09resistance. You can say, "I don't feel
24:11like it. I got to go do this other thing
24:13instead. I don't want to host a small
24:14party." Resistance. My friend Lisa moved
24:18across the country to be with her
24:19partner all the way to Los Angeles. knew
24:22three people in the whole city. She
24:25says, "I don't want to live a lonely
24:26life in Los Angeles. I'm going to have a
24:28potluck dinner every Friday. I'm going
24:31to start by inviting the three people I
24:32know. And every week, you can come back
24:35if you bring a new person.
24:3750 weeks later, she has a network of 400
24:40people, all good friends."
24:42Anyone could have done that. No one
24:45does. Resistance. What if I invite
24:48someone and they say no? What if I
24:49invite someone I don't like them? What
24:50if I invite someone and they don't like
24:52me? Resistance, resistance, resistance.
24:54Name the baggage. Drop the baggage. Do
24:57it. Once you can name the baggage, you
24:59can say this is why I am feeling stuck.
25:03If I can let go of this other thing, I
25:05can move toward the carrot because I can
25:07forgive the water. I was sort of running
25:10through different people in my head that
25:11I'm that I know. Again, trying to think
25:13about the personas of the people
25:14listening. And one of the things I
25:15realized is that everybody's starting
25:16from a very different place here,
25:18>> right?
25:18>> And why is that? Why is it that some
25:20people are quite good at dealing with
25:21resistance? They can invite around
25:22strangers and then other people are
25:24living in fear. They're almost Yeah.
25:26They never take a risk.
25:27>> Yeah. Well, a big part of it is
25:30privilege. It's injustice. It's living
25:33in a culture that never gives you the
25:35benefit of the doubt. But even if I look
25:37among a group of people who all have the
25:39same amount of privilege, there's still
25:41somebody who is at the marketplace
25:44helping strangers find where they're
25:46going. There's still somebody who, you
25:48know, I have a family friend went to an
25:50Ivy League school. He wanted to be an
25:51actor and he went to apply to the improv
25:55troop for auditions and they picked 10
25:58people and he came in 11th and he called
26:01me up. He was very upset and I said,
26:03"Why don't you start your own improv
26:04troop? You don't need any equipment. You
26:07don't need a permit. You just need four
26:10people to do improv with. Start your own
26:11improv troop." And the irony, the reason
26:14I remember the story is he couldn't do
26:16it. I mean, isn't that what improv is?
26:19Start your own improv troop. And so, you
26:23know, I run a online community called
26:24Purple.space. And on Purple, we got
26:27thousands of people who are coaching
26:29each other. And it's the opposite of a
26:32social network. There's no scams.
26:33There's no hustle. Nobody sells anything
26:35to anybody else. It's just I'll talk you
26:37through my
26:40not you talk me through yours. Let's
26:41hold each other accountable. Well,
26:43someone needs to go first. Everyone
26:45wants to be invited to an engagement
26:47like that, but few people want to start
26:50one because you're afraid of being
26:51rejected because it's one step short of
26:55dying. So, when we can name this and
26:58realize it's actually not at all related
27:00to dying, this isn't about hustling
27:03someone and getting in their face to
27:05sell them something. This is about
27:07offering to solve their problem as you
27:09solve your problem by naming the thing
27:11and figuring out where we can be of
27:13value.
27:14>> One of the things that I've experienced
27:15as a podcaster is a lot of people come
27:16up to me in the street and they'll tell
27:17me about the podcast idea that they've
27:19had for four years. [laughter]
27:22>> And I it's quite a curious thing to
27:23observe because it appears on the
27:26surface that they are serious, but the
27:29very nature that they've been mulling it
27:30for a couple of years means that there's
27:32probably some kind of resistance there.
27:33>> Correct. Exactly. So I for a couple
27:36years my friend uh Alex Depal and I ran
27:38the podcasting fellowship. So thousands
27:40of people went through this workshop to
27:42start a podcast and the reason podcasts
27:46are such a great example is everyone
27:48knows what a podcast is and the cost of
27:50starting a podcast is less than a
27:52dollar. So why don't you have one,
27:55right? Okay. Well, so we start the cycle
27:58by give me all the reasons you can't
27:59have a podcast. And one of the ones that
28:01comes up is well I don't think I could
28:03get good guests. M
28:04>> and then we would say, "Okay, who would
28:06be the best guest you could ever get?"
28:09And amazingly, Michelle Obama's name
28:10comes up.
28:12Michelle Obama is not going to be on
28:14your podcast, [laughter]
28:16but who would you need to have on your
28:17podcast as the guest before Michelle
28:19Obama that would lead her more likely to
28:22say yes? And who would be the guest
28:23before that and the guest before that?
28:25And let's go all the way back to your
28:26next door neighbor. Can you get your
28:27next door neighbor to be a guest on your
28:29podcast? Yes. So go make that podcast
28:32and just play it for the 20 people who
28:34are in this circle. And at that point,
28:36half the people can't do it. There's no
28:39technical reason why. It's just too hard
28:42to say to your next door neighbor, can I
28:43interview you for 20 minutes? And then
28:45show it to somebody else because
28:46resistance.
28:48And so the hack I give people is start a
28:51blog under another name, under an
28:53assumed name. No one will know you wrote
28:56it. Do it for 100 days in a row. If you
28:58do that for 100 days in a row, I'm
29:00betting you're going to want to put your
29:01real name on it. But if not, at least
29:04you understand there was nothing fatal
29:06about posting something in public for
29:09100 days in a row with somebody else's
29:10name on it. So that's obviously not
29:12where the writer's block is. It's in
29:14resistance. Two things at once. I want
29:16to do this. I want to be recognized, but
29:20I don't want it to fail. I don't want to
29:22be disrespected. I don't want to lose
29:24status. And those two things keep us
29:26paralyzed. And the system likes it like
29:28that.
29:29>> What you did there is you took the
29:30resistance and you tried to break it
29:32down into the smallest possible piece.
29:34>> Correct. Yes.
29:35>> So you took a big piece of resistance
29:36which is how do I get Michelle Obama on
29:37my podcast. You broke it down into I
29:40need to go ask my next door neighbor to
29:41come on my podcast.
29:42>> Yeah.
29:42>> And then you broke it even smaller to
29:44I'm going to start an anonymous blog.
29:46>> Yeah.
29:47>> Cuz when we call our own bluff, it's
29:49very uncomfortable, but it's better than
29:51someone else calling her bluff. And this
29:54gets back to my posture of I can't solve
29:56your problem, but maybe I can give you
29:58tools that can help you name your
30:00problem so that in a safe place you can
30:02talk to somebody about where is the
30:05resistance? Why am I in my head about
30:07this? What's the smallest unit of value
30:10for the smallest possible audience that
30:12I could do that would make a difference
30:15for them? Bob Leitz writes the most
30:17popular music blog in the world.
30:19Everybody in the music industry knows
30:21him. I promise you when he started he
30:25had five readers. My blog has a million
30:27readers. When I started I had five
30:29readers. That's the way they all start.
30:31That's how your podcast started. Five
30:33listeners.
30:36>> When you um you broke it down there and
30:38you turned it into an anonymous blog.
30:39What I I guess what you were also doing
30:41is you were breaking down the
30:43embarrassment into smaller and smaller
30:45and smaller and smaller pieces of
30:47embarrassment, right? But like
30:49irrespective there was still
30:50embarrassment. And I heard this phrase
30:53embarrassment is the cost of entry.
30:55Would you agree with the the general
30:57idea that irrespective of what you do,
31:00you're going to have to be embarrassed.
31:02You're going to have to like pay that as
31:03the the fee of entry to almost anything
31:05outside of your current context and
31:07identity.
31:08>> All right. So let's talk about
31:09lifeguards and imposttor syndrome. So
31:12imposter syndrome was named by two
31:14social scientists about 70 years ago.
31:16Imposter syndrome is that feeling when
31:18you're doing something important or new
31:20that you're a little bit of a fake or a
31:22fraud and that someone else ought to be
31:24doing this instead of you. So, the story
31:27I tell is about being a lifeguard. So,
31:28in Canada, you have to get your bronze
31:30medallion to be a lifeguard. And imagine
31:33you're on uh Canoe Lake on duty. There's
31:36six lifeguards on the dock and a kid
31:39starts drowning right in front of you.
31:42The first thing that might come to mind
31:44is I just barely got my bronze medallion
31:46and that guy two docks down is a much
31:49better swimmer than me. This is someone
31:52else should say it. And then you
31:53realize, no, no, it's right in front of
31:54you. This is your kid. You jump in the
31:56water. Do you apologize for your stroke?
31:58Do you say I'm really sorry I'm not
32:00getting there as fast? You save the kid.
32:03That's what lifeguards do. The kid is
32:05going to thank you and their parents are
32:06going to thank you. That's the work of a
32:08lifeguard. Lifeguards are able to
32:11overcome resistance because it's such a
32:13vivid thing. Well, if someone's going to
32:16send an email newsletter to someone who
32:18asked for it and that might help them
32:21get to where they're going, where's the
32:23embarrassment exactly? And shame is this
32:27interesting emotion because we must
32:29receive it. It's sent to us all the
32:31time, but you have to receive it for it
32:34to work. Now, I'm walking on 74th
32:37Street, not far from here, past this
32:39little pocket playground, and I hear a
32:42four-year-old inside the playground
32:44taunting somebody else. And this kid is
32:46making fun of this guy, making fun of
32:49his clothes, making fun of the fact that
32:50he's bald. And then I realize the kid's
32:52taunting me
32:55because he was just, you know, it felt
32:57safe for him, and he was just yelling at
32:58bystanders. The point was, it instantly
33:02brought me back to third grade.
33:03instantly brought me back to what does
33:05it feel like to be bullied? But I wait,
33:07first of all, you're on the other side
33:08of a fence. I'm never going to see you
33:10again. You cannot put any shame on me.
33:13It doesn't it bounces off of me. And
33:17when we can get to useful work for a
33:19small audience of people, we're allowed
33:21to say to someone who doesn't get the
33:22joke, "Sorry, it's not for you. I
33:24forgive you. I don't have to accept your
33:27shame. I don't have to accept the
33:28embarrassment you want to give me
33:29because I'm here for the right reason.
33:32And if it's not for you, we both learned
33:34something.
33:34>> I guess because of the internet as well.
33:36Embarrassment is everywhere and shame is
33:39everywhere. People are you start
33:40anything on the internet, there's going
33:42to be some troll that tells you it's
33:43terrible. Even when we started this
33:45podcast, I mean, still today we get a
33:46lot of people telling us it's
33:47terrible. But
33:48>> um because it's everywhere,
33:50one could almost argue that um
33:53overcoming it is now a superpower
33:57because you know, everybody that does
33:59anything is going to encounter it. And
34:01you know how painful it is to deal with
34:03that and you also know that most people
34:05won't. That actually the skill of
34:07mastering like overcoming shame or
34:08embarrassment or critical feedback or
34:10whatever it might be might be one of the
34:12most important skills in the modern
34:13world today when there's so much
34:15negative feedback and so much shame or
34:16embarrassment or whatever. And just
34:18that's what you that's what I was
34:19thinking of when you're saying it's like
34:20how how do I get better at dealing with
34:22that?
34:22>> Well, let's look at it slightly
34:24differently because I think that's a
34:25great point. But practical empathy says,
34:29"I don't know what you know. I didn't
34:31have the day you had. I don't want what
34:33you want." And that's okay. And I can
34:35forgive that and I don't have to take it
34:38personally. I can simply take it
34:41seriously. And those are different
34:43things. Here's an interesting semi-
34:45business example. You've been to Shake
34:47Shack?
34:47>> Yes.
34:48>> My friend Danny Meyer started Shake
34:49Shack. It's now a multi-billion dollar
34:51company. Shake Shack is based on his
34:53youth in St. Louis, Missouri. and he
34:56grew up with crinkle cut French fries.
34:58Crinkle cut French fries are the secret
35:00to a certain kind of fast food hamburger
35:02joint. And fancy New York restaurant
35:06critics, Ed Lavine, the New York Times
35:08said, "What are you doing? You're making
35:09this whole big deal out of everything is
35:11handmade and fresh. You're serving
35:13frozen crinkle cut French fries that we
35:16can buy in the freezer at the
35:17supermarket. You need to make real
35:20French fries." So Danny, his status is
35:23associated with the fanciest restaurants
35:25in the United States. And he and his
35:27team see this assault they're getting on
35:30being embarrassed about the French fries
35:31which are at the heart of their menu. So
35:34they spend millions of dollars over the
35:36course of a year researching potatoes,
35:39reconfiguring every single restaurant,
35:42putting in a different kind of fryer,
35:44making fresh cut French fries is a
35:46really big challenge. Also, fresh cut
35:50French fries are a living thing, and in
35:53May, the potatoes are different than
35:54they are in November. So, sometimes a
35:56fresh cut French fry is the best French
35:58fry you ever had. And sometimes it's
36:01limp and not very good. And they
36:03switched to fresh cut French fries
36:05because they wanted the status that came
36:07from New York cultural critics saying,
36:09"These are guys authentic. They're the
36:11real deal." And the French fries were no
36:14good. and the entire internet blew up
36:18and say, "What have you done to Shake
36:20Shack?" And the staff hated making them
36:22and it was a mess and you had to clean
36:24things differently. Nothing good came of
36:26this shift except making a couple people
36:28in New York City happy because that's
36:30who they decided to listen to. And one
36:34day, Danny looked at this and said,
36:35"What is the purpose of the French fries
36:37at Shake Shack? Do the French fries at
36:39Shake Shack exist to help a non-C
36:42customer feel good about eating at a
36:44Danny Meyer restaurant or do the French
36:46fries at Shake Shack exist to further
36:48the story of what it is to come to Shake
36:50Shack? And they ripped everything out
36:52and they went back to the crinkle cut
36:54fries and the world rejoiced. profits
36:56went up, productivity went up, and they
36:59got back to what they were trying to do
37:01in the first place by forgiving and
37:04ignoring the people who needed to say,
37:07"You need fresh cut French fries."
37:09Because that's what they stood for. But
37:10it wasn't what the business was for.
37:14>> This sounds like a business story, but
37:15actually, as you were saying it, I
37:17realized that it pertains to everybody's
37:19life listening right now because we're
37:21all serving a certain voice,
37:23>> right? And then the other thing that
37:24came to mind is I've just hired someone
37:26called Arada Pema who came from Amazon.
37:28She was leading products there, building
37:30AI products at AWS. She's now leading,
37:32she's our CIT, chief innovation and
37:34technology officer at Steven.com, my
37:36holding company. And one of the things
37:37she told me about Amazon is that they
37:39are just unbelievably obsessed in the
37:42customer. Every decision they make from
37:44a culture perspective is all about the
37:45customer. She even told me that Jeff
37:47Bezos in his meetings and still in the
37:49Amazon meetings today, they put an extra
37:51chair in every meeting that is empty to
37:55represent the customer because they want
37:57the customer to be in every meeting. And
37:59she told me how that anchors all of the
38:01decisions they make from a product
38:02perspective right back to the the person
38:04they're serving. I guess it kills the
38:07donkey thing you told me because they're
38:10not having to choose between serving the
38:11merchants or the customer. They are
38:13serving the customer. Sometimes she told
38:15me at the merchants's expense, but you
38:18have to be okay with that.
38:20>> That's what she said to me. And I
38:21actually really stayed with me cuz now I
38:22always think about like who's the
38:23customer, who's the C. Even when I do
38:24this podcast, you hear me talking about
38:25personas. I'm talking about Dave the
38:27taxi driver and Jay, the mum.
38:28>> Exactly.
38:29>> That's who we're serving here.
38:30>> Yeah. And so I just need to put a small
38:32paper clip here. In the last two years,
38:34Amazon has lost their way about who
38:35they're serving. And Amazon made
38:38billions and billions of dollars last
38:39year selling ads that make Amazon search
38:41worse
38:42>> to people who want to interrupt what
38:43you're looking for to put their thing up
38:45on top. That doesn't serve the customer
38:47that serves a different kind of
38:49shareholder. But yes, the model of what
38:52Jeff built there from the way they hold
38:54their meetings, which is absolutely
38:55fascinating to what they chose to do
38:59about who it was for and who it wasn't
39:01for, were consistent about saying this
39:04is the problem we are here to solve.
39:06This is the purpose of this click. This
39:08is the purpose of this page. There's no
39:10doubt about what it's for. And so the
39:13meeting thing, most people who are
39:15listening to this go to meetings. And
39:17many people who have white collar jobs
39:19say the meetings are the worst part of
39:20their day. What is the meeting for? The
39:24typical meeting, if we're going to be
39:25honest, is to make the boss feel like
39:27you are listening to them and let the
39:29boss take attendance because it could
39:32probably be a memo. And if you're not
39:34sending a memo and you're having a
39:35meeting, let's be clear. Who's this for?
39:38What's it for? What is the purpose of
39:39what we just did here with eight people
39:41just listening the whole time? Well, why
39:42didn't you just send them a video that
39:44they could watch at double speed?
39:46Meetings are a symptom. They're a
39:48symptom of whether the organization is
39:50entangled and stuck with unspoken rules
39:54about what we do around here.
39:57And we can see them everywhere we look.
40:00When in doubt, there are three things
40:02that drive people.
40:04fear,
40:06belonging or affiliation and status and
40:10we don't really understand what they
40:11mean. So first fear I call it the
40:14freedom from fear which is different.
40:16Freedom from fear is I don't want to do
40:18things that are going to make me feel
40:19nervous. I don't want to do things that
40:21I think I'm afraid of. That keeps people
40:24from doing a lot of things. That's
40:25resistance.
40:27Affiliation is you don't wear a tuxedo
40:31to a funeral because or a clown suit. No
40:34one's going to do that, so you're not
40:35going to do that. Fitting in. Who's to
40:37my left? Who's to my right? What's
40:38everybody else doing? And the third one,
40:40which is really misunderstood, is
40:42status. Status is simple. Who eats lunch
40:46first? When we get to the oasis, which
40:48animal gets the water first? Status
40:50isn't money, but it could be related to
40:53money. Status is just who's up and who's
40:55down. These three things keep dancing
40:58with each other about how people choose
41:00what kind of coat. or are they going to
41:02buy Patagonia or are they going to buy a
41:05cheaper knockoff? One of those things
41:07comes with a different kind of
41:08affiliation and status than another one.
41:10But if we can look for this, we can
41:13start to decode
41:15that quiet butt that's been going on in
41:17our head. Name it, right? I want to get
41:19this car. Why? Because it's fast. No,
41:21you don't need to go fast. I want to get
41:23this car because that kid at the high
41:26school lunch table who said I was never
41:28going to amount to something, he could
41:29never afford this car. And every time I
41:31get in this car, I'm going to be able to
41:32tell myself a story that I'm not that
41:34kid from the lunch table anymore. That's
41:35why I want to get this car. Okay, now
41:38we're clear about what problem you're
41:39here to solve.
41:41Go for it.
41:42>> Really?
41:43>> Well, does it help you? Is that what you
41:45want to put your resources into? If that
41:48helps you, then it solved the problem.
41:50>> Do you think it is a worthy goal, a
41:52worthy reason? Well, it's not for me to
41:55decide this that high school leaves all
41:59sorts of tracks all over how we look at
42:01the world. My high school English
42:02teacher wrote in my yearbook, "You are
42:05the bane of my existence and you will
42:07never amount to anything."
42:10And
42:11she was partially inest, but remembering
42:14that as I become a professional writer
42:18is fascinating. I dedicated like my
42:21ninth book to her and then I could let
42:23it go, right? And she and I had a
42:26wonderful lunch a couple years later.
42:28The point is we can't deny that these
42:31things are in our lives. None of us are
42:33living this optimized, fully optimized
42:36life.
42:38The reason you're going and taking those
42:40nutritional supplements, the reason
42:41you're listening to this thing about
42:43some shortcut of bio, whatever has
42:46nothing to do with you doing an actual
42:48analysis of all the best ways for you to
42:50be healthy. They have to do with feeling
42:52agency. They have to do with feeling a
42:55certain kind of affiliation with the
42:56crowd you're in. That's why we have
42:58cycles in medicine. It's not because
43:01medicine goes in and out of actual
43:03science fashion. It's cuz culture
43:06changes what we think is beautiful.
43:08Changes what we think we need to do to
43:11get our emotional needs met. I've got 60
43:15seconds and I'm going to show you how
43:16much I can get done because of our
43:18sponsor called Whisper Flow. And for
43:20those of you that don't know what it is,
43:22it's a business I invested in that turns
43:23your speech into text in any app or
43:26device. I'm going to post into our Slack
43:28channel which rewards whichever team
43:30member conducted the most experiments
43:31this week. Hi everyone. Here is this
43:34week's experimentter of the week.
43:35Congratulations to the Dire of SEO
43:37trailer team, which is Aunt, Liv, Dom,
43:40and Cam. You guys have one. Okay, now
43:44I'm going to open Gmail. So, here is one
43:45of our founders on an email chain that I
43:47want to connect my team with. All I have
43:48to say is add my team's emails, and
43:52Whisper will do exactly that. Now, a
43:54quick message to Juan, who does my
43:56schedule every single week. Hey, Juan,
43:58can I record on Wednesday at 2?
44:00Actually, no. Do you know what? Let's
44:01record at 3 p.m. on Wednesday. Whisper
44:04Flow is four times faster than typing,
44:06and it is incredibly easy to use. So, if
44:08you want to give it a go, all you have
44:09to do is head to whisperflow.ai/stephven
44:13to download it today. I've spent the
44:15last decade building and investing in
44:17companies. And so often the conversation
44:18around marketing budgets follows the
44:20exact same pattern. The budget gets
44:22approved, but then the results don't
44:23come back. And most of the time, the
44:25creative pitch and the offer is fine.
44:28The problem lies with the audience. Ads
44:30reach people who will never buy or
44:33refer, nor do they have the power to
44:34sign off anything at all. And this is
44:36why so much budget gets wasted. LinkedIn
44:39Ads, who are sponsor of this podcast,
44:40lets you reach them specifically by job
44:43title, seniority, company size,
44:45industry, the skills that they have, and
44:48much more. You're no longer hoping your
44:50ad reaches the right person. Instead,
44:52you're defining exactly who sees it. And
44:54LinkedIn Ads drives the highest B2B
44:56return on ad spend across all major ad
44:59networks. Give them a try at
45:01linkedin.com/diary.
45:03And if you spend $250 on your first
45:05campaign, you'll get a $250 credit for
45:08your next one just by going to
45:10linkedin.com/diary.
45:12Keep this to yourself. Terms and
45:14conditions apply. I think I asked this
45:16as well because yes, you can serve my
45:18parents expectations because they're
45:20immigrants and they want me to be
45:21doctor, lawyer, scientist, whatever. Or
45:23I could serve my kids who want me to be
45:27a great dad. Or I could serve my
45:30playground trauma who wants to get the
45:31kid back who said I was never going to
45:32be anything.
45:33>> Exactly.
45:34>> Are any of these voices more worthy than
45:36the other? Is there a particular voice
45:37we should really orientate ourselves
45:39around? And the other thing I've really
45:40now sort of internalized is I'm going to
45:42have to say no to the other voices.
45:43Yeah.
45:44>> I can't transerve them all or else I'll
45:45be the donkey stuck in the middle of the
45:46water and the carrot.
45:47>> I love this. I wish I put this in the
45:49book. This is exactly correct that we're
45:52going to have to forgive some of these
45:54voices. So there are three basic things
45:56that get us hung up. There are time
45:58entanglements which is today is not
46:01yesterday and today is not tomorrow.
46:04Today is right now. There are social
46:07community entanglements. What will this
46:10person think of me? What will that
46:11person think of me? And then there are
46:13the entanglements we have with our
46:15vision of ourselves. when I look in the
46:17mirror, if this works, what will I think
46:19of myself? If this doesn't work, what
46:20will I think of myself? And all three of
46:23them get in the way of announcing a
46:26purpose and then going to solve that
46:29problem because we say to ourselves,
46:32well, I want to work to help the poor,
46:34but I can't get a job at a really fancy
46:36nonprofit. And if I get a job at a less
46:38fancy nonprofit, then what will my
46:40parents think? Oh, all of that's going
46:43on. We have to acknowledge that, right?
46:45We say, "I went to law school for three
46:48years. I didn't like it. I practiced law
46:50for five years. I hated it. Do I want to
46:54spend the next 40 years of my life being
46:56a lawyer? Because I've tried it fully
46:59out." We can't quit because then we
47:02would have to explain to our former
47:05self, why did they pay this big price to
47:07get me this fancy gift and I'm ignoring
47:10it? Sunk costs keep us trapped. And what
47:13we can do is realize that's a gift from
47:15our former self. And like all gifts, you
47:17don't have to accept it. If someone
47:18shows up and offers you a Vietnamese pot
47:20belly pig to take care of, you can say,
47:22"No, thank you. I don't want to accept
47:23your gift." That law degree is a gift.
47:26But you don't have to accept it now. Now
47:28that you know what you know, you can
47:30make a different decision about the
47:32purpose of your work. And if it's not
47:34helping you achieve the purpose of your
47:36work, you can forgive it, say, "Thank
47:37you very much and untie the knot."
47:41I think that point around sunk cost is
47:43an important one to really um double
47:45click on because when I learned about
47:47the idea of sunk cost, it completely
47:49changed me as an investor.
47:51>> It was actually my brother my brother's
47:52been working in like investment banking
47:54for like 15 years now works in my
47:56company. And he explained to me one day
47:58early in my career. He goes, "Stephen,
48:00it was a a stock I had. I was an
48:02investor in a particular stock and the
48:04stock was doing terribly. The company
48:05was doing terribly, but I didn't want to
48:06sell it."
48:07>> Right.
48:08>> Because I had invested at a higher
48:09price.
48:10>> Correct. And then he sent me the
48:11psychology of money book and a few other
48:13papers and said this is what sunk cost
48:15bias is and it'll ruin your life if you
48:17don't realize what it is.
48:18>> Yeah. And it's in everything we do. So
48:20there's the new parking apps let you
48:22find a parking garage near where you're
48:24going and pay in advance.
48:26>> So when I come into the city sometimes
48:28I'll do this. So I've got a $35
48:32ticket to go park at this lot starting
48:35in five minutes. I'm driving in and I
48:37pass a free space on the street. Should
48:40I take it?
48:42So, the advantage of the free space, of
48:43course, is you can leave when you want
48:44to leave and you don't have to engage
48:47and it does it saves you five or 10
48:48minutes. But if I take the free space,
48:51I'm wasting the money I just paid for
48:54that parking garage and it still goes
48:56off in my head that well, yeah,
48:59obviously you take the free space
49:00because the money you paid is already
49:02gone.
49:03>> That's a that ticket is a gift from your
49:05former self. Knowing what you know now,
49:08would you take this job? Knowing what
49:10you would know now, would you take this
49:12parking space? And if the answer is yes,
49:15then you can forgive what got you here
49:18because serving the old you, the old
49:22you's gone.
49:23>> D, I was thinking about relationships as
49:25well.
49:25>> Yeah. Now, if you're the kind of person
49:28that leaves a relationship every 3 weeks
49:30because you're ignoring some cost, then
49:32you're never going to have a
49:33relationship. repeating the process has
49:37costs to you because it develops these
49:40patterns. That's not the kind of sunk
49:42cost I'm talking about. But yes, when
49:44you meet somebody who has decided to end
49:47a relationship,
49:49the healthy thing for them to do is to
49:51say that relationship was then I made
49:54all the right decisions based on who I
49:56was then, based on who they were then.
49:59But we are not those people anymore. So
50:01based on who we are now, do we want to
50:03recommmit to this, will it pay off in
50:06the future? And if the answer is no, it
50:08will not pay off in the future, you've
50:10already answered the question. It
50:11reminds me of Daniel Coleman's work on
50:13loss aversion.
50:14>> Mhm.
50:14>> And I think this is an important thing
50:16to explain because when you realize
50:17what's actually going on in your head
50:18and why people don't like to lose
50:20things, you can spot it when it's
50:22happening to you.
50:23>> Right?
50:23>> I read this study that showed if you
50:25lose £10 in the street, falls out my
50:27pocket. If I then fi find 10 pounds, it
50:30doesn't make up for the 10 pounds I just
50:32lost. I'd have to find 20 pounds to feel
50:36um the pleasure sufficient to the pain
50:38that I experienced from losing the 10.
50:40>> Humans don't like to lose things. And
50:42when I I I remember searching what's
50:44like the evolutionary reason for this
50:46and it it came to say that once upon a
50:48time in our evolutionary past again this
50:51is a hypothesis when we had a meal in
50:54front of us going in pursuit of another
50:56meal that would risk the one we current
50:58have was a terrible decision to make.
51:01>> So actually this whole you know we're
51:03designed to be sufficiently satisfied
51:05with what we have versus the pursuit of
51:07surplus.
51:08>> Yeah.
51:08>> So we want to protect what we currently
51:10have. That was a survival um advantage.
51:13>> No, absolutely. And we don't have to
51:14look in evolution. We look at wild
51:16animals today. Wild animals are wild.
51:18They hate change. Change never helped a
51:22species move forward because it
51:25represents a threat. And what we built
51:28as humans is a culture where change is
51:29happening faster and faster and faster.
51:31By the time we're done with this
51:32conversation, some AI company will have
51:34launched a new frontier model. Boom. And
51:38we can look at this and say, "Where can
51:40I go hide? How can I get back to being a
51:42wild animal that's in in this one place
51:45where nothing changes?" Or we can decide
51:48to get back to the purpose of what are
51:50we trying to do right now. Ignore the
51:52stuff that's not relevant to it. Seek
51:54out the stuff that helps us make the
51:56change we seek to make and get back to
51:58work. So, we need to decide where we're
52:03going to put our attention because our
52:05attention is something we can never get
52:06back.
52:08>> You talked as well about systems, the
52:10systems we're like held in place with.
52:13One of the things that I've seen in your
52:15work is this idea of picking yourself
52:17because I guess we're wired to to
52:19believe that there are still
52:20gatekeepers, but those gatekeepers have
52:22increasingly vanished. I mean, the fact
52:23that I can start this podcast and people
52:25listen, I think is evidence of the fact
52:27that you no longer need gatekeepers. Do
52:28you know a funny story that I've never
52:30told is [laughter]
52:33I um I went for an interview with LBC,
52:37which is a UK radio station before I
52:40took this podcast seriously. I went
52:42there, I did my 2-hour audition, sat
52:45there in the chair, people pretended to
52:46phone in. It was just staff LBC,
52:48>> right?
52:48>> And um I left. I was like quite nervous,
52:50etc. I thought I did a good job, but I
52:52was a little bit nervous, unsure about
52:53what they might say. And I never heard
52:55back. They never gave me feedback. They
52:57never told me if I was good or if I was
52:58bad. So, I started this podcast um on
53:00YouTube in my kitchen [laughter]
53:03because I never heard back from LBC. And
53:06it just goes to show actually you don't
53:07need
53:09>> massive company to give you permission
53:10to start a platform. You can just do
53:12things in this modern world. And this is
53:14kind of dubtales into your idea of
53:15picking yourself.
53:16>> Yeah. So, let's talk about systems first
53:17and then we'll come back to picking
53:18yourself.
53:19>> Okay.
53:19>> People get a little glassy when you talk
53:22about systems. So, let me try to make it
53:23really simple.
53:25When you get in a car here, you drive on
53:27the right side of the road. When you get
53:29back to the UK, you drive on the left
53:30side of the road. Why? Because it's way
53:33more efficient to drive on the same side
53:35of the road as everybody else. We have a
53:37system that says if you're going to
53:38drive in the United States, drive on the
53:39right side of the road. Systems start to
53:41get a little bit more complicated. The
53:43college industrial complex is a system
53:45that starts in first grade that includes
53:47things like the SATs and the stickers
53:49and the football teams and the dorms.
53:51And it's a 400-year-old system that we
53:54got into because it works. It works for
53:58most people most of the time. It's an
54:00easy way to look at a resume, see one
54:03word, and decide if you want to
54:04interview somebody or not. So, the
54:06system that people my age grew up in is
54:10you would do as well as you could in
54:12high school, and a college would pick
54:13you. And then you do as well as you
54:14could in college, and then a company
54:16would pick you. and you would do as well
54:17as you could at the company and then
54:19they would pick you and you get a
54:20promotion and then you would die. And so
54:22we indoctrinated billions of people
54:25around the world. Please wait to get
54:27picked. Here are all the rules and if
54:30you follow all the rules you might get
54:31picked. Turns out it was rigged. Some
54:34people got picked unfairly. But that's
54:36what we got brainwashed. And we still
54:38teach our kids this.
54:40>> And then all of a sudden starting, you
54:42know, in the 90s we said, "Here's a
54:44microphone. Here's a video camera.
54:46Here's a typewriter. Pick yourself.
54:50And now it's extended to here's an AI.
54:54You can start a company by tomorrow. You
54:55could build a complicated website by
54:57Friday.
54:59Wait, I'm waiting for someone to tell me
55:00I should go do that. No one's going to
55:02call. It's $20 a month. You can probably
55:05get it for free at your library. What
55:08are you going to do? And when we put
55:11ourselves on the hook, it's super scary
55:13because does that mean I'm responsible
55:15for every kid on Canoe Lake who needs a
55:16lifeguard and I'm responsible for every
55:18kid who might suffer from river
55:21blindness and I'm responsible for this?
55:22I'm responsible
55:24for nobody. I'm a victim. But we have
55:26the chance to say, I pick myself to
55:29solve this problem. I'm on the hook to
55:31help these people. I'm going to use
55:33whatever tools I can to pick myself to
55:36make a thing better. Turns out that's
55:39generative. If you get a little good at
55:41it, lots of people will ask you to do it
55:43again. When you give away credit and
55:47take responsibility, lots of people will
55:49ask you to do it again.
55:51Sometimes we tell ourselves that we're
55:53waiting to be picked because it's a nice
55:56excuse for resistance.
55:58>> Mhm.
55:59>> We live in a permission seeking state
56:02because it's a good shield.
56:05>> Yeah. to avoid this thing you were
56:07talking about which is the freedom from
56:09fear.
56:10>> Yeah. I mean the entire New York City
56:12book publishing industry is based on the
56:15author gets to say well they picked me
56:17to write the book and then I got to go
56:19promote the book because I promised I
56:21would promote the book. The the book
56:22isn't there because I wanted the book to
56:25be there. They asked me to write this
56:27book. And as soon as you can publish
56:30your own book, as soon as you can start
56:31your own YouTube channel, you don't get
56:32to you don't get to say great news
56:34YouTube call. They want me to start
56:36putting things on YouTube. And that's
56:38why
56:40the number of people you would think
56:42would go ahead and use this tool isn't
56:46as big as it could be because again,
56:48it's one thing to ask a teenager to be
56:50on Tik Tok. They're just entertaining
56:52themselves. They don't see themselves as
56:54a Tik Tocker.
56:55>> To see yourself as somebody I picked
56:58myself. I am saying this and I'm
57:00responsible.
57:02That's hard. No one taught us to do
57:04that.
57:05It's kind of like the LBC thing. I was
57:06waiting for LBC to pick me. And
57:08>> I think once this podcast comes out,
57:10they're going to call you and you got a
57:11big decision to make cuz it's steady,
57:14Stephen. [laughter] They they they'll
57:16give you like health insurance, the
57:18whole thing.
57:18>> I still love LBC, by the way. I still
57:20watch LBC. So, but um I'm probably too
57:23busy now to do LBC. One of the the the
57:26sort of adjacent points here is how do I
57:29know if I'm delusional?
57:31>> Right? I I always think this because a
57:33lot of the advice we give people around
57:35like getting going and starting and
57:36pursuing the thing they want to pursue
57:38doesn't necessarily always come with the
57:40nuance that actually like I can't
57:42actually be an NBA player.
57:44>> Correct.
57:44>> But h how do I know because all the
57:46advice is just go for it, pick yourself,
57:48etc. But
57:49>> yeah, that's not my
57:50>> have the talent.
57:51>> I'm so glad you brought this up. That's
57:52not my advice. You probably are
57:55delusional if you're picking something
57:57that's super fun that involves skipping
57:59lots of intermediate steps and it ends
58:02with a happy ending where you're famous.
58:04The chances of winning that lottery are
58:05very very low. So people come to me and
58:08say, "I got this great book. Will you
58:10help me get a career as a novelist?" And
58:13the answer is super easy. Take your
58:15novel. It was really hard for you to
58:17write. I get that. Make it into a nicely
58:19formatted PDF. Cost you nothing. email
58:21it to 20 people. If they send it to
58:24other people and it spreads, someone's
58:26going to call you and hire you to write
58:28your next novel. If it doesn't spread,
58:30write a better novel.
58:33But don't start running around saying,
58:35"I'm a novelist and I deserve to get
58:38picked and have a big advance." The
58:41heartbreak of someone who is delusional
58:43is they insist that the world owes them
58:47because they worked so hard on X, Y, or
58:49Z or that they have found some secret
58:52transcript that if anyone else
58:54understood it, everyone would real.
58:56Well, if people don't understand it,
58:57that's on you. So, we can get past the
59:00delusion by going for the smallest
59:02viable audience. What's the smallest
59:03group of people that if I made a
59:06difference for them, it would be enough.
59:09What's interesting is I imagine if you
59:10said that to some people, they would
59:13really not like the answer.
59:15>> People hate it when I say this.
59:17>> Why?
59:18>> Because it's so comfortable to be stuck
59:20in that knot.
59:22I'm a genius and I'm really hardworking,
59:24but no one in the world understands me.
59:26So now my butt isn't the problem because
59:28I don't have to worry about any of the
59:30things that come with the responsibility
59:33of it being in front of the wrong people
59:35or whatever. It's so much easier to say,
59:37"If only and I, you know, I need to be
59:40home for this or I I this thing happened
59:42to me. Therefore, I'm stuck." We're safe
59:46at some level in that frustration.
59:49And so, what I'm trying to do with the
59:51knot is help people understand this is
59:54possible, but it is not easy. This is
59:56possible, but it will not give you the
59:58thing you are dreaming of. It will
1:00:01merely find a path to get to where it is
1:00:04possible to go.
1:00:05That's a grownup thing to have to commit
1:00:08to
1:00:09>> if someone's not happy with the advice
1:00:10you just gave. I think it also
1:00:12illuminates
1:00:14that maybe their motives are wrong. It
1:00:16reminded me of when I started this
1:00:17podcast and I had these two friends,
1:00:18Oliver and Ash, come to me and say that
1:00:21was good. When's the next one? And I
1:00:22always say if they hadn't have said that
1:00:24to me, it probably wouldn't have
1:00:25continued because I was busy with other
1:00:26things. But those two people who I
1:00:28trusted and would tell me when something
1:00:29is terrible. I often do. um saying that
1:00:32to me
1:00:34just it gave me so much energy and
1:00:36motivation and I kept publishing in part
1:00:39for them because I knew Oliver had this
1:00:41like 3 and a half hour commute to work
1:00:43every day from Sheffield
1:00:44>> and um I loved the process. I was
1:00:46getting this feedback from this
1:00:47particular person. It carried on going.
1:00:48But a lot of the time, actually, I think
1:00:50a lot of people would bounce off this
1:00:51advice of just send it to 20 people
1:00:53because they're actually attached to the
1:00:56podium,
1:00:56>> right?
1:00:57>> And what you're saying is no, focus on
1:00:59the journey,
1:01:00>> right?
1:01:01>> But they want in their head somewhere,
1:01:02actually, no, I the journey, Seth.
1:01:04I want to be famous and I want the
1:01:06million pounds, right?
1:01:07>> And that's not what you're offering
1:01:08them. But actually, you are. [laughter]
1:01:10>> Well, someone someone's going to win the
1:01:11lottery, Stephen, and it's probably not
1:01:13going to be you.
1:01:15And and so in your case, we're talking
1:01:18because you won the podcast lottery.
1:01:20There are a 100 podcasts as good as this
1:01:23one out of a million, right? That's
1:01:25pretty amazing.
1:01:26>> But there's still a hundred of them.
1:01:28>> So you show up to buy lottery tickets in
1:01:32a way that lets you buy more lottery
1:01:33tickets. You show up to add value for
1:01:36people so you can keep going. And then
1:01:38when there's a lottery, you got a shot,
1:01:40right? But along the way, the journey
1:01:43says
1:01:45I have a chance to say here I made this.
1:01:49I made this means it's for you. It is a
1:01:52gift I'm giving you. If you don't accept
1:01:54the gift, I can't blame you. I just have
1:01:56to make a better gift. But if people
1:01:58start accepting your gifts, you have
1:02:00traction. And Steve Blank talks about
1:02:03customer traction. As an investor, you
1:02:04know this. Customer traction is the
1:02:07single best indicator of whether a
1:02:09startup is going to succeed more than
1:02:12any other metric. How many customers
1:02:14would miss you if you shut down
1:02:15tomorrow?
1:02:17>> And for a pizza place, 100 is enough.
1:02:20>> Yeah, they say that a lot in product
1:02:21development. They say just make a thing
1:02:24for one person you know and make make it
1:02:27for one person you know that really
1:02:29really really loves it and it will turn
1:02:31out that there'll be lots of people like
1:02:32that person you know. enough people.
1:02:35Maybe it's not lots, but it'll be
1:02:36enough.
1:02:37>> And so this cycle we're talking about
1:02:40>> isn't self-focused. It's empathic. You
1:02:44have to let the audience in to your
1:02:47thinking or else you're thinking about
1:02:49what's in this for me and me alone. And
1:02:51that's narcissistic. And that is where
1:02:54you see all the internet hustle going
1:02:56on. All the people who are trying to
1:02:57pressure folks into sending them $5 or
1:03:00multi-level marketing, all that stuff.
1:03:02that isn't what's possible and it's not
1:03:04what we should be spending our time on.
1:03:06But when we can be of service for the
1:03:08right people,
1:03:10we have a chance to make things better.
1:03:12But I need to put a big aside here,
1:03:13which is where resistance kicks back in.
1:03:16The only way to launch something new is
1:03:19to create tension. Not to relieve it,
1:03:22but to create tension. Generous tension.
1:03:24The tension of you might be left behind.
1:03:27You won't be in on the first cycle of
1:03:28it. I have this thing that's going to
1:03:30help you and you don't know what it is
1:03:31yet. Tension
1:03:33that's offered generously is the only
1:03:37way people create forward motion. So
1:03:39Taylor Swift is having a concert 15,000
1:03:42people can fit in the arena. She just
1:03:44created tension for 40,000 people
1:03:47because they're saying to their moms and
1:03:48dads, I got to go get tickets before
1:03:49everybody else. If she's not willing to
1:03:52create the tension, she can't go on
1:03:53tour.
1:03:54>> So yes, it's awkward to create
1:03:56attention. It's awkward to say, "I'm
1:03:58doing this event. I hope there's room
1:04:00for you." But it's the only way we can
1:04:04cause other people to decide to move
1:04:08forward.
1:04:08>> I was stress testing that Taylor Swift
1:04:10analogy. And the way that I stress
1:04:12tested it was, well, what if Taylor did
1:04:14a gig and there was unlimited seats?
1:04:15[clears throat]
1:04:16People would still go, I guess, because
1:04:18the tension is that she's so good. I
1:04:21might miss the experience. As you said,
1:04:22there's FOMO itself is the tension.
1:04:24There's unlimited seats, but there's not
1:04:26unlimited nights. It's just tonight.
1:04:28>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
1:04:29>> And that's why live events create a
1:04:31different sort of tension. You know,
1:04:33this videos on the internet you haven't
1:04:34seen, I haven't seen. And we're not
1:04:36stressed about that because they'll be
1:04:37there tomorrow,
1:04:39>> right? But the live event starts to
1:04:42change how we're going to engage with it
1:04:44among that community.
1:04:47>> What else is sort of adjacent to this
1:04:49idea of getting unstuck? Because that's
1:04:51really what we're circling here. It's
1:04:52like the things that keep you stuck and
1:04:54how to take sort of actionable steps
1:04:56outside of being stuck. Is there
1:04:58anything else we need to close off on
1:05:00here?
1:05:01>> So, you saw some of my juggling balls
1:05:03there. Juggling is
1:05:06fascinating because when you see someone
1:05:09on the street, if you're a good person,
1:05:10if you see someone on the street
1:05:11juggling, you're not rooting there for
1:05:12them to drop a ball, right? That we want
1:05:15the juggler to be able to juggle. So,
1:05:18when people say, "I'm going to learn how
1:05:19to juggle." What happens is they throw
1:05:22one ball and they can catch it. They
1:05:23throw the other ball, but within two or
1:05:25three throws, one of the balls goes over
1:05:28here. So, they lunge to catch it because
1:05:30the juggling is about catching. So, they
1:05:32lunge to catch it, but now they're out
1:05:34of position and the next one's going to
1:05:36hit the ground. And then people give up.
1:05:38People give up because they think
1:05:40juggling is about catching. It's not.
1:05:44It's about throwing. If you get good at
1:05:46throwing, the catches take care of
1:05:48themselves. So the way I teach juggling
1:05:51is with one ball, throw it, catch it,
1:05:53throw it, catch it till you're really
1:05:54bored. Then two balls, throw, throw,
1:05:56catch, catch. This is not hard, but if
1:05:58you do throw, throw, catch, catch for 20
1:06:00minutes,
1:06:02every ball is landing exactly where it's
1:06:04supposed to. And now juggling is easy.
1:06:07But what we are hooked on, and listen to
1:06:10any self-improvement podcast, it's all
1:06:12about the catching, right? Does this
1:06:14help me lose weight? Does this help me
1:06:15find friends? Does this help me build my
1:06:17business? Those are all catches.
1:06:20Where's the throwing? How are we going
1:06:21to get good at throwing? How are we
1:06:23going to get good at realizing even if
1:06:25no one reads this next short story, I'm
1:06:28going to get good at putting words on
1:06:31the page?
1:06:31>> The process.
1:06:32>> The process. The practice. If we can
1:06:34develop a practice, we're no longer
1:06:37attached to the outcome because the
1:06:40outcome's out of our control. The
1:06:41practice is under our control. Get good
1:06:44at throwing. Get good at seeing where
1:06:46problems lie, seeing where audiences
1:06:48are, seeing where you can be generous.
1:06:50When you get good at seeing those
1:06:52things,
1:06:54the catches take care of themselves.
1:06:56This is something that I've made for
1:06:58you. I realize that the direio audience
1:07:00are strivals
1:07:04that we want to accomplish. And one of
1:07:05the things I've learned is that when you
1:07:07aim at the big big big goal, it can feel
1:07:10incredibly psychologically uncomfortable
1:07:13because it's kind of like being stood at
1:07:15the foot of Mount Everest and looking
1:07:16upwards. The way to accomplish your
1:07:18goals is by breaking them down into tiny
1:07:21small steps. And we call this in our
1:07:23team the 1%. And actually this
1:07:25philosophy is highly responsible for
1:07:27much of our success here. So, what we've
1:07:29done so that you at home can accomplish
1:07:31any big goal that you have is we've made
1:07:34these 1% diaries and we released these
1:07:36last year and they all sold out. So, I
1:07:39asked my team over and over again to
1:07:40bring the diaries back, but also to
1:07:42introduce some new colors and to make
1:07:43some minor tweaks to the diary. So, now
1:07:45we have a better range for you. So, if
1:07:50you have a big goal in mind and you need
1:07:51a framework and a process and some
1:07:53motivation, then I highly recommend you
1:07:56get one of these diaries before they all
1:07:58sell out once again. And you can get
1:07:59yours at the diary.com.
1:08:02And if you want the link, the link is in
1:08:03the description below. This again is not
1:08:05a narrative that people will love
1:08:07because we all want to get good at
1:08:09catching. Yeah. Weirdly, this is very
1:08:12very adjacent and almost unlin, but it's
1:08:14somewhat linked. Um, I sat here with
1:08:16Julian Treasure. He did two TED talks.
1:08:18One about speaking, right? 40 million
1:08:21views. One about listening,
1:08:23>> two million views. [laughter]
1:08:25>> I thought it's almost kind of similar to
1:08:27like the catching and the throwing. It's
1:08:28>> Yeah.
1:08:29>> And and actually when I sit here with
1:08:31spies and I've interviewed some of the
1:08:32world's leading spies and I say, "How is
1:08:34it that you're able to get people to do
1:08:35whatever you want that have just met you
1:08:37in foreign lands and hand over their
1:08:38secrets? They say listening."
1:08:40>> Yeah.
1:08:41>> It's all about the listening. I go in a
1:08:43taxi and I listen to them for eight
1:08:44weeks as they offload because no one
1:08:45listens. And it kind of got me thinking
1:08:47about this is like no one focuses on the
1:08:49throwing.
1:08:50>> Yeah.
1:08:50>> And actually that becomes the great
1:08:52competitive advantage,
1:08:53>> right? Exactly. Yeah. The practice. I
1:08:55love the idea world famous spies because
1:08:57you would think that that's sort of an
1:08:59oxymoron. I would imagine the world's
1:09:00greatest spies. We have no idea who they
1:09:02are.
1:09:02>> Well, they go on podcasts now, so they
1:09:04are like [laughter]
1:09:05um but but part of it links to one of
1:09:07the books you wrote, which is called The
1:09:08Dip. We're talking about delusion here
1:09:10and how to know if you're delusional or
1:09:12if you're just going through the dip.
1:09:14So, I've got uh some images here, but
1:09:17>> okay. How does someone listening know if
1:09:20they should give up on something or if
1:09:22it's just the inevitable rough patch
1:09:25that you go through when you start and
1:09:26you're bad?
1:09:27>> Okay, so the dip describes something in
1:09:28the world that no one had talked about
1:09:30in the book before, which is the power
1:09:32of quitting.
1:09:34What is the dip? The dip is the hard
1:09:36part in between starting and getting
1:09:38good at it. The dip is organic chemistry
1:09:41on your way to being a doctor.
1:09:44And you got to get through it to get to
1:09:46the other side. The dip is the gym in
1:09:50March. If you want six-pack abs, you
1:09:53can't quit the gym in February, which
1:09:56you joined during the holidays. You're
1:09:58going to have to get through the hard
1:09:59part. And so most of what we do that
1:10:03creates value has a dip in it. [snorts]
1:10:06And my argument is you should a see the
1:10:08dip before you start. You should say,
1:10:11"If I'm going to drive this car across
1:10:12the Gobi Desert, I can't whine when I
1:10:15can't find a gas station." There are no
1:10:17gas stations in the Gobi Desert. There's
1:10:18a dip to get across the desert. Pack
1:10:21what you need to get through the dip or
1:10:23don't start.
1:10:25And number two, when the dip shows up,
1:10:29say thank you because it means you hit
1:10:31the hard part. It means this is the
1:10:33beginning of getting to the other side.
1:10:36Don't complain about organic chemistry.
1:10:37You knew organic chemistry was coming.
1:10:39Organic chemistry is part of the process
1:10:42of becoming a doctor. As my friend Gabe
1:10:44says, it's not an obstacle in the way.
1:10:48It's something along the way and it's a
1:10:51signpost that you're on the way. So your
1:10:53question then is should we quit. Has
1:10:56anyone ever made it through this dip
1:10:59before?
1:11:01If this is a dip like organic chemistry
1:11:03where every single doctor in the world
1:11:04has made it through, now you know. you
1:11:07know this is coming and you know if you
1:11:09make it through you're going to get to
1:11:10the other side. On the other hand, no
1:11:12one that I know of has ever smoked their
1:11:15way through emphyma. That when emphyma
1:11:18shows up, it's not a dip and continuing
1:11:21to smoke is not going to make you
1:11:22better. It's what made you worse. It's a
1:11:24culde-sac. It's a trap. And so what we
1:11:27look for when we're talking to people
1:11:29about this journey, this delusion, this
1:11:32problem we're trying to solve is
1:11:35what does it usually cost to get through
1:11:36a dip like this one? Do I have the
1:11:38resources to get through it or am I just
1:11:40throwing good time and good money after
1:11:42bad? But if you got a business that's
1:11:44losing money and losing money and losing
1:11:46money and losing money and there's no
1:11:48evidence that putting more money into
1:11:50your thing is going to get you to the
1:11:51other side, that's a culdeac. Forgive
1:11:53yourself. the old self who started the
1:11:56wrong business say thank you thank you
1:11:59for having the right insight but it
1:12:00wasn't correct for this world today I
1:12:04forgive you I'm going to go quit and do
1:12:06something else
1:12:06>> key word there you said is evidence
1:12:09>> and the evidence could be as you say
1:12:11small
1:12:13>> yeah so the so if we think about the
1:12:16business if you had a retail shop or a
1:12:19restaurant
1:12:21the ones that succeed 95% of their
1:12:24profit goes to the landlord.
1:12:26And the ones that fail, 102% of their
1:12:28profit goes to the landlord. That's the
1:12:30only difference between failing and not
1:12:31failing in one of those businesses. The
1:12:33landlord's job to take as much as they
1:12:35can of your profit, but not too much
1:12:37that you go out of business.
1:12:40So, someone's got a four-year lease.
1:12:43They're two years into it. They're not
1:12:45making rent. They're losing money every
1:12:47single day. And they have a sunk cost,
1:12:49which is I got to pay for the next two
1:12:51years of this storefront. whether or not
1:12:53I'm in here, but you can quit because
1:12:57you can forgive that two years you you
1:13:00have to pay. You decided that two years
1:13:02ago. That's not a new thing. That's an
1:13:05old thing. Are you really going to spend
1:13:07the next two years of your life
1:13:09punishing yourself because you made a
1:13:10decision a few years ago and signed a
1:13:12bad lease and built the wrong business
1:13:13on the wrong street in a system that
1:13:15doesn't support you? Why? You can't get
1:13:17those two years back. But we can take a
1:13:19deep breath and say, "Yeah, I'm going to
1:13:21leave this place empty and go build
1:13:23something really useful over here and
1:13:26I'll come out way ahead compared to
1:13:28defending that old decision."
1:13:30>> But hang on a minute, Seth. When I went
1:13:32to the gym this morning, there was
1:13:34quotes written on the wall. And the
1:13:36quotes are like this one here.
1:13:40>> Can you read that out for me?
1:13:41>> If you quit once, it becomes a habit.
1:13:43Never quit.
1:13:44>> It's a Michael Jordan quote.
1:13:45>> Michael Jordan. Yes. I'm never gonna
1:13:47have an argument with Michael Jordan,
1:13:49but he's wrong. And it's very clear that
1:13:51he's wrong. He doesn't play professional
1:13:54baseball anymore. He doesn't play
1:13:56professional golf, nor does he play
1:13:58professional basketball anymore. Because
1:14:01humans age and he did a thing, but then
1:14:04he stopped doing the thing because it
1:14:05wasn't productive anymore.
1:14:08And when we think about our fuel, he
1:14:12used as an athlete a couple things to
1:14:15fuel him. One thing he had was
1:14:16grievance. And if you listen to his Hall
1:14:19of Fame speech, it's just a long list of
1:14:21chips he's had on his shoulder for his
1:14:23whole career. That's fuel based on who
1:14:25he was and how he grew up. That's how he
1:14:27gets on the court. And the second one
1:14:29was never quit. So if those two pieces
1:14:31of fuel help you become the greatest
1:14:34basketball player of your generation,
1:14:36I'm not going to argue with you. If
1:14:37that's getting you where you need to go,
1:14:40it's up to you. But for most people,
1:14:43it's resistance and a trap. It's shame.
1:14:48It's getting stuck in a knot. It's all
1:14:50of the butts. Right? I want to be a
1:14:52successful business person, but I can't
1:14:54admit I was wrong.
1:14:56>> I've shut down more businesses than most
1:14:58people who are listening to this. I've
1:15:00failed more times than most people are
1:15:01listening to this. If I was still
1:15:03running the light bulb fundraising
1:15:05company I started in 1987, I wouldn't be
1:15:09talking to you today.
1:15:12It it's funny because there's this weird
1:15:14paradox that's so obvious to all of us
1:15:15but um still people believe this idea of
1:15:19never quitting and the paradox that I'm
1:15:20pointing at is the minute someone starts
1:15:22something a new company a new job a new
1:15:24relationship we celebrate but we also
1:15:26intuitively know that in order to start
1:15:28something like a new job or a new
1:15:30relationship you have to do something
1:15:32before that which is quit the other
1:15:34thing. Yeah,
1:15:35>> never quit, but we celebrate starting.
1:15:37Theoretically, then we should celebrate
1:15:39the quitting just as much as we
1:15:41celebrate the starting because they are
1:15:42fundamentally inter.
1:15:43>> Correct. But only quitting the right
1:15:45stuff. You don't want to celebrate
1:15:47someone who quits the marathon at mile
1:15:5025 because what they failed to do in
1:15:53their training was become the kind of
1:15:55runner that sees that the people who
1:15:58finish the marathon figure out where to
1:16:00put the tired. But that's not the same
1:16:02as working for an abusive boss because
1:16:04your boss is never going to stop being
1:16:05abusive. And so you can say this can't
1:16:09get better and every day I come here and
1:16:11subject myself to this trauma is costing
1:16:14me. It's reinforcing a system I don't
1:16:16believe in and I can get tomorrow back
1:16:19again.
1:16:20>> What you've described there sounds a lot
1:16:22like um something I wrote about in uh in
1:16:25my last book which was just a quitting
1:16:26framework for this exact situation
1:16:29people find themselves in. because I
1:16:30know what people are saying that are
1:16:31listening. They're all saying, "How do I
1:16:33know when to quit something?" So, I made
1:16:35this framework which I'll throw up on
1:16:36the screen. And actually, the example I
1:16:37use is a marathon.
1:16:38>> I mean, this is the framework. You can
1:16:39see it for yourself and I'll just sort
1:16:40of give you the voice over.
1:16:42>> But if you look down the the left side,
1:16:44I'm referring to a marathon there. And
1:16:46what I'm saying is when something is
1:16:47hard, that is not reason enough to quit.
1:16:49Like a marathon in mile 23 when you're
1:16:51raising money for a charity that means a
1:16:54lot to you. when you should quit is when
1:16:57something if you go down the right hand
1:16:58side is when something sucks like you've
1:17:01said about the toxic boss and critically
1:17:03the effort it would take to change it is
1:17:05not worth the thing on the other side.
1:17:08>> Exactly right
1:17:08>> because people that's what people will
1:17:09say they'll say how do I know when to
1:17:11quit something how do I know like you
1:17:13know how do I know when to quit the job
1:17:14or to
1:17:15>> Right. And you can question your
1:17:17judgment because if you have a history
1:17:18of quitting because in the short run it
1:17:21was tough as opposed to looking at
1:17:23whether it was worth it, you can find a
1:17:26coach or peers who can challenge you on
1:17:28that.
1:17:29>> So I was one of the leading makers of
1:17:32DVDs for book publishing companies back
1:17:35in the brief moment when they're doing
1:17:36this. So I worked with Fischer Price and
1:17:38we made a DVD for parents and stuff. And
1:17:40then this day shows up and it becomes
1:17:43very clear that book publishers aren't
1:17:46going to do more of this because the
1:17:48internet's here. They're going to do
1:17:50less of this. So every day I would be
1:17:53defending what I had built as a DVD
1:17:56producer was completely wasted.
1:17:59>> So forgive yourself. I didn't change the
1:18:01world. Somebody else changed the world.
1:18:03But it's not going to get better. This
1:18:06is a culde-sac. It's a dead end. Thanks
1:18:09for doing this. let's start something
1:18:10else.
1:18:11>> Cuz there's a lot of people right now
1:18:12that are in their 30s, 40s, 50s that are
1:18:15in jobs that have not made them
1:18:17fulfilled for a decade.
1:18:18>> Yeah.
1:18:19>> But they're 20 years in. They've climbed
1:18:21the ladder. They're director.
1:18:23>> So they have sunk costs because they've
1:18:25earned the spot. But they also have a
1:18:27whole bunch of entanglements like I want
1:18:29to have a job that fulfills me, but I
1:18:31also like this car and this house. I
1:18:34want to have a job that fulfills me, but
1:18:36I also like my neighbors thinking I'm
1:18:38this stable, respectable person. I want
1:18:39to have a job that fulfills me, but I
1:18:42have all this other stuff I have to pay
1:18:44for. All right. But if we look at those
1:18:47butts, we realize you just made the
1:18:49choice to stay in this job. So, you
1:18:52don't have to fret about it anymore.
1:18:54You've accepted that you made that
1:18:56choice. The alternative is move to a
1:18:58two-bedroom flat, eat rice and beans,
1:19:01take a deep breath, reset all these
1:19:03things, and now you can get a different
1:19:04job that's going to pay you half as much
1:19:07because you gave up the butts, right? A
1:19:10job that fulfills me, will give me a
1:19:12better relationship with my family, will
1:19:14give me hope for the future, will give
1:19:16me a chance to make X, Y, or Z happen in
1:19:19the world. That's hard because you can't
1:19:23have the butts. You got to let them go.
1:19:26In that scenario, you know, I okay, I
1:19:28have the car. I have the the business
1:19:30card, which is impressive to people. I
1:19:31get invited to nice things, but I'm
1:19:33miserable,
1:19:34>> right?
1:19:34>> So, what do I do? I've got a community
1:19:37I've built around this identity that is
1:19:39on this business card, but I'm
1:19:41miserable, Seth.
1:19:42>> Right? So the magic of this process is
1:19:45if you announce through this that it's a
1:19:47situation that all these other things
1:19:50are so important to me that I cannot
1:19:52change my job. Suddenly your job gets a
1:19:55lot better
1:19:56>> because you're not bridling against it.
1:19:59You chose it
1:20:01>> and so if you talk to people I I I've
1:20:05gave a couple talks for people who are
1:20:06in the funeral industry undertakers.
1:20:09Most of us would not sign up for that
1:20:11job as high school students at the
1:20:12career fair, right? But the people who
1:20:15stick with it, they're not sitting there
1:20:18saying, "This is horrible. I hate being
1:20:20around dead people." They're saying,
1:20:22"All the stuff that I get in my life.
1:20:26This is part of it. It comes with it.
1:20:29Just like getting tired in the marathon
1:20:30comes with it. If I want to have this
1:20:32life where it's stable, where I don't
1:20:33have to move around, where a member of
1:20:35the community, where the cash flow is
1:20:36assured
1:20:38and I get to be an undertaker within
1:20:41that structure, how do I be the best
1:20:43undertaker I could possibly be? As
1:20:46opposed to wishing that I would get a
1:20:49call from Michael Jordan who wants me to
1:20:50run his financial empire or something
1:20:51because it's not going to happen.
1:20:54>> I get to be you're you're taking back
1:20:57control from the situation. you're
1:20:58shifting from victimhood to control,
1:21:00right?
1:21:01>> There's this remarkable couple of stats
1:21:03that I read about this idea of feeling
1:21:05like you have control and how it changes
1:21:07your outcomes in your life. Um the first
1:21:09stat is people who believe they are in
1:21:11control of their life and have control
1:21:13over their happiness rate their overall
1:21:15life satisfaction at an average of 7.4
1:21:19out of 10 compared to those that don't
1:21:20feel like they have control over their
1:21:22situation who rate their life
1:21:23satisfaction at 5.6.
1:21:26>> Yep. People who report low overall
1:21:29happiness are five times more likely to
1:21:31feel like their own personal situation
1:21:34is entirely outside of their control. I
1:21:36mean, this one's was a landmark study
1:21:38they did in care homes. In a famous 1976
1:21:42study, elderly residents given plant
1:21:45care and small daily choices that they
1:21:47could make were 50% less likely to die
1:21:51over an 18-month period compared to
1:21:53residents whose care was fully handled
1:21:56for them.
1:21:57>> Yeah.
1:21:57>> Crazy the power of feeling like you have
1:21:59control in your life,
1:22:00>> right? And also, I don't know the stats,
1:22:02but when they give uh people in hospice
1:22:05control over their painkillers as
1:22:07opposed to them having to wait for
1:22:09someone to give them a painkiller, they
1:22:10don't necessarily take more painkillers.
1:22:12It was knowing they can do it. Same
1:22:14thing back to the meetings thing. If you
1:22:16have a job where you're going to
1:22:16meetings all day where you just have to
1:22:18know this, you've lost control over your
1:22:20day. And I'm not here to say there's no
1:22:23cost to switching. There's huge cost to
1:22:25switching. That's why you chose not to
1:22:27switch until now. But let's name it.
1:22:29Let's say, you know, gravity is
1:22:32fascinating because it's here, but if I
1:22:34was on a planet that didn't have gravity
1:22:35or had low gravity, I would miss this
1:22:37gravity because I've built my whole life
1:22:39around gravity being this consistent
1:22:42thing. I get to live on a planet with
1:22:44gravity. I get to be the kind of
1:22:47organism that's going to die before he's
1:22:48100. If you look at the world that way
1:22:51that that's inevitable and I get to
1:22:54inhabit each day the best I can, you're
1:22:56going to have a different life than if
1:22:58you're spending all your time trying to
1:22:59figure out how to live forever. I'd
1:23:01never heard that painkiller study
1:23:02before, but as you're speaking, I just
1:23:03pulled it up and it says it's one of the
1:23:04most famous real world demonstrations of
1:23:07how the perception of control alters
1:23:08your physical and psychological
1:23:10experience. When hospital patients are
1:23:12given a button to self-administer pain
1:23:14medication, two incredible things
1:23:15happen. Number one is they consume equal
1:23:18or less painkillers. Number two, they
1:23:21report lower pain levels and higher
1:23:23satisfaction. The physical pain itself
1:23:25doesn't magically change, but the stress
1:23:27of helplessness,
1:23:28>> right,
1:23:29>> amplifies pain,
1:23:30>> right?
1:23:31>> The stress of helplessness.
1:23:34I mean, it goes right back to what we're
1:23:35saying about the not in your new book,
1:23:38which is a lot of us are living with
1:23:39distress of helplessness, but sometimes,
1:23:41not always, but sometimes that
1:23:43helplessness is in part a story.
1:23:47I would say it's always a story because
1:23:51we can look at someone who is in human
1:23:54bondage. We can look at someone who's,
1:23:56you know, been through trauma and we are
1:23:59projecting what we would feel in that
1:24:01situation. There are all these unfair
1:24:03situations around there. But then the
1:24:06question is what is our narrative? What
1:24:09is our narrative of how are we living
1:24:12this day? What do we actually have
1:24:14control over? And what situations are we
1:24:17choosing to stick with because most of
1:24:20us have the freedom to shift, right? And
1:24:23so it's a story we tell ourselves that
1:24:26might not change the outside world in
1:24:28the short run, but what it does is it
1:24:31gives us this feeling of agency which
1:24:34then gives us a sense of responsibility
1:24:37which then amplifies into choice and my
1:24:41whole career is about how can I help
1:24:44people do better.
1:24:46>> I wanted to throw another quote at you
1:24:47here. This one is about meaningful work.
1:24:50So, if you could read that as well.
1:24:52>> From Warren Buffett. In the world of
1:24:54business, the people who are most
1:24:57successful are those who are doing what
1:25:00they love.
1:25:00>> I've heard that a million times. Do what
1:25:02you love.
1:25:03>> Yeah, it's backwards. Sorry, Warren.
1:25:06The people who are the most successful
1:25:09love what they do.
1:25:11>> What's the difference?
1:25:12>> Well, doing what you love means there's
1:25:14an amusement park out there that has all
1:25:16the treats I love and all the best
1:25:18prizes. Of course, I love it. The other
1:25:22is a choice. I chose to do this work
1:25:26because I love it. There was a guy who
1:25:29worked at the Dean and Duca cafe in
1:25:31Midtown
1:25:32>> and he was developmentally challenged
1:25:35and he was probably 50 years old. He was
1:25:37the mayor of this Dean and Duca. He was
1:25:40the guy who cleared the tables and kept
1:25:42the things straight. He loved this job.
1:25:45>> You and I would have lasted 15 minutes
1:25:47in this job. He loved this job because
1:25:49he decided to love this job. The
1:25:52Reverend King had a great quote about
1:25:54street sweepers and he said, "If you
1:25:56have to be a street sweeper, at least
1:25:58choose to be the best street sweeper in
1:26:01that situation under these conditions
1:26:03that it's possible to be." And the
1:26:05reason is not because you want to help
1:26:06the street sweeping company. It's cuz
1:26:08your day is going to go better if you do
1:26:09that. I was thinking he also meant
1:26:12potentially although he you know I guess
1:26:13he didn't clarify but the way that I
1:26:15perceived it was that if I become the
1:26:17best street sweeper not to say that's
1:26:18that's not an important job it increases
1:26:21my possibility of becoming something
1:26:23else as well of being promoted being
1:26:26>> dare I say picked to be something else
1:26:29or to start my own street sweeping
1:26:31business or to you know I'm going to
1:26:32build a great relationship with my
1:26:34customers who might be
1:26:35>> and I think they rhyme and dance with
1:26:36each other they don't contradict each
1:26:38other And so all of us have had a job
1:26:42where we thought it was a good job and
1:26:44someone doing the same job down the
1:26:46aisle hated it or vice versa.
1:26:48>> Mhm.
1:26:48>> So clearly it's not the job. It's where
1:26:51did we come from? What are we afraid of?
1:26:54What do we believe? Where are we going?
1:26:56That creates the story that opens the
1:26:58door for possibility.
1:27:00>> Well, I guess some of these other quotes
1:27:01linked to it then. I mean, they kind of
1:27:03all say the same thing, but let's do
1:27:06this one. This is a famous Mark Twain
1:27:08quote that probably everybody's heard.
1:27:10>> If you get a chance, talk to your AI
1:27:13favorite AI about Mark Twain quotes.
1:27:15>> The most mostly fake,
1:27:16>> but it's it's a great conversation. The
1:27:19two most important days of your life are
1:27:20the day you are born and the day you
1:27:22find out why.
1:27:23>> I've heard that a lot as well.
1:27:25>> And my small shift is not the day you
1:27:27find out why, it's the day you decide
1:27:31why.
1:27:33Because this isn't something you're born
1:27:35with. This is something you choose.
1:27:38And if you make the decision, like my
1:27:41friend Jacqueline, to say there are 400
1:27:44million people on this earth who are
1:27:46making three or four dollars a day. I'm
1:27:48going to devote a generation of my life
1:27:51to helping them. You can go do that. And
1:27:56most people don't have the head start.
1:27:58Most people aren't starting at mile 20
1:28:00of the marathon. Some people are
1:28:02starting behind others. But we still get
1:28:04to decide based on who we are, what we
1:28:06know, what we've got access to, which
1:28:08problems are we going to solve and who's
1:28:11going to benefit from us solving those
1:28:12problems. That is what I think Twain was
1:28:15trying to get at.
1:28:16>> And my last one,
1:28:19this one from a very famous guy whose
1:28:21device I'm using right now.
1:28:23>> The only way to do great work is to love
1:28:26what you do. Bingo. If you haven't found
1:28:28it yet, keep looking. Don't settle.
1:28:32>> Who is that? That's Steve Jobs. And I I
1:28:35think the keep looking part might mean
1:28:39look inside. Don't look over there.
1:28:43Why is it that you don't love what you
1:28:44do right now? Let's unnot that first. Is
1:28:49it because you're being disrespected? Is
1:28:51it because the external narrative of
1:28:55what's happening is undermining who you
1:28:57hope to be? If we can get clear about
1:29:00that, finding the next thing gets way
1:29:03easier. You're not giving in to this
1:29:05lottery of hoping you get picked by the
1:29:07next right boss. You can go hire a boss.
1:29:10And when you hire the right boss, your
1:29:13job is transformed.
1:29:15>> At the heart of a lot of this is this
1:29:18word perfectionism.
1:29:20>> That's a that's a big knot. You know,
1:29:22when I thinking about the young lady
1:29:23that came up to me in the Apple store
1:29:25the other day and told me that she's
1:29:26been thinking about her podcast for two
1:29:27years and she's been working on it for
1:29:29two years, but it's never been published
1:29:30yet. What I heard there is perfectionism
1:29:33maybe as a form of procrastination.
1:29:35Perfectionism is a trap every time.
1:29:37Perfectionism has nothing to do with
1:29:39quality. So the word quality has a very
1:29:42specific meaning. It doesn't mean
1:29:43luxury. It means meets spec.
1:29:47So, the quality of a 1998 Toyota Celica
1:29:52was higher than the quality of a
1:29:54Rolls-Royce in 1998 because the pieces
1:29:57fit together better. They met spec. It
1:30:00wasn't all over the place. If you're not
1:30:02happy with the quality, make the spec
1:30:04better better. But perfectionism says
1:30:08perfect feels like an honorable thing to
1:30:12pursue, but perfect is unachievable. So,
1:30:15if I announce I'm a perfectionist, I'm
1:30:17hiding because what I've just announced
1:30:19is I'm never going to need to ship this
1:30:20because it's never going to be perfect.
1:30:22>> One of the other words that I think does
1:30:25tie people in knots as well is this word
1:30:26authenticity.
1:30:27>> Yeah.
1:30:28>> Because authenticity is is a terrifying
1:30:30concept when you really think about it.
1:30:32>> What do you think of this idea?
1:30:33>> It's a trap. And authenticity is for
1:30:35amateurs.
1:30:37>> Your friends need you to be authentic.
1:30:38Your family wants you to be authentic.
1:30:40Nobody else. Professionals are not
1:30:42authentic. Professionals are consistent.
1:30:45Professionals make a promise and they
1:30:47keep it. So if you're having knee
1:30:49surgery, you don't want the doctor to
1:30:51authentically be in a bad mood and screw
1:30:53up. You want them to be the best version
1:30:55of themselves, even if they don't feel
1:30:58like it. And Keanu Reeves, he's not
1:31:01authentically Neo. He's an actor. He's
1:31:06pretending to be Neo. If he was playing
1:31:08Keanu Reeves in the movie, it wouldn't
1:31:10be any good.
1:31:12on social media if you're gonna show up
1:31:14and show up and show up. Unless you're a
1:31:16diva, then we're watching you
1:31:18self-destruct. That's what we're paying
1:31:19for. You know, like Amy Winehouse or
1:31:21something. Everybody else, we want them
1:31:24to be consistent. And consistent means
1:31:27you made a choice about the promise
1:31:29you're going to make and you keep the
1:31:32promise over and over again. So, when
1:31:34I'm writing my blog, I am playing the
1:31:37role of Seth Goden, the blogger. It is
1:31:39not authentically how I felt in that
1:31:42moment. It's my best version of what I
1:31:45think Seth Goden the blogger would say
1:31:47today. And we've spent time together. I
1:31:50like you a lot, but I don't know you.
1:31:53And that's for your friends and your
1:31:54partner. So authenticity as a buzzword
1:31:59is a version of resistance. It's one
1:32:01more way to hide. We say, "Oh, I was
1:32:04just being authentic." No, you were just
1:32:05being a jerk and that's why I rejected
1:32:08you. because you chose to be a jerk, not
1:32:10because you were authentic. We say, "I
1:32:12[snorts] can't write the next novel
1:32:14because it wouldn't authentically be who
1:32:16I am." Well, yeah, but the people you're
1:32:18writing the novel from don't know you.
1:32:20They just want to read the next Perry
1:32:22Mason novel. Write that or else get out
1:32:25of this circle we're in because that's
1:32:27what they came for.
1:32:28>> In some way, these two things are
1:32:30somewhat interlin. So, I was thinking,
1:32:31you know, as a podcaster, I know that
1:32:33I'm going to have to do if I want to
1:32:35sort of accomplish my goals and continue
1:32:37to have this life, I'm going to have to
1:32:38do thousands and thousands and thousands
1:32:40and thousands and thousands of episodes.
1:32:42And one of the ways that I'm going to be
1:32:43able to do that is by being as authentic
1:32:45as I possibly can because it's very I
1:32:48find it to be very exhausting to to be
1:32:51inauthentic in that way. One like very
1:32:53practical way that I mean that is when I
1:32:54look at my guest booking request list
1:32:56that my team sends me.
1:32:58>> I go down there and I look at all the
1:32:59people. I go, "Oh my god, okay, so that
1:33:00person's got 100 million followers and
1:33:02they're a super famous person. I've
1:33:03never watched their movies. I have no
1:33:04idea who they are cuz I don't really
1:33:05watch many movies." But, you know, I
1:33:07guess I could be authentic and pretend
1:33:09to care about that thing. But then this
1:33:10principle comes into my mind, which is,
1:33:12well, then I wouldn't be able to do this
1:33:14for a long time. I wouldn't be able to
1:33:15be consistent if I didn't make those,
1:33:18dare I say, authentic decisions. For me
1:33:20to sit here and try and be someone else
1:33:22in those hours and hours and hours times
1:33:24by 10,000 episodes, I wouldn't be able
1:33:26to be consistent.
1:33:27>> Thank you for calling this out. what you
1:33:29just said doesn't contradict what I
1:33:31said. It's really important we highlight
1:33:33this. You should not sign up for
1:33:35something where you cannot happily be
1:33:39consistent. And so let's think about a
1:33:41teacher. The teacher knows everything
1:33:43they're teaching. The students know
1:33:45nothing they're teaching. So the
1:33:47empathic solution is not to
1:33:48authentically talk about whatever is
1:33:51interesting to you. It's to create the
1:33:53conditions for you to teach people so
1:33:55that they can start to get closer to
1:33:56where you are. That's a commitment, not
1:33:59an authenticity thing. It's what kind of
1:34:03taste am I going to bring so I can
1:34:05consistently make a promise and keep it.
1:34:08That needs to rhyme with what you would
1:34:11do if it was your hobby. But it
1:34:13shouldn't be your hobby. When you turn
1:34:14your hobby into a business, you ruin
1:34:16both of them.
1:34:17>> So, do I conclude then that it's this
1:34:19sort of dance between
1:34:22me and my authentic self and the thing
1:34:24that I can do to be consistent at this
1:34:26goal? Is it a dance?
1:34:28>> It's a dance because people who are
1:34:29happy find consistency that rhymes with
1:34:35their overall authentic self.
1:34:37>> And their overall authentic self, it
1:34:39turns out, changes over time based on
1:34:42the promises they made. So if you hang
1:34:44out with people on Wall Street, even if
1:34:46they weren't, you know, loud and short
1:34:49cycle kinds of people when they got the
1:34:52job, they authentically became like that
1:34:54because that's who they were surrounded
1:34:56by. affiliation, status, we change.
1:34:59We're not who we were. And so, we get to
1:35:02pick this arc. It cost me a lot coming
1:35:05out of business school to be an
1:35:07undermployed entrepreneur in the
1:35:10creative business, not joining um you
1:35:12know, Apple or Activision or something
1:35:14like that. So, for years, I was behind
1:35:17on the status ladder of my peers. That's
1:35:20an investment on the long arc of quote
1:35:24authentically becoming the kind of
1:35:26person I want to be all day. But I said
1:35:28to myself, if I have to make a promise
1:35:30to an engineering company that I'm going
1:35:32to be Dilbert all day every day, I'm
1:35:35going to die a little bit inside until
1:35:37it's over. And I don't want to do that.
1:35:40>> All industries are changing.
1:35:43AI.
1:35:45What are your thoughts on this crazy new
1:35:47technology that has come down from?
1:35:49>> So, so my background here is uh when I
1:35:51was at Stanford in 1983, I took a PhD
1:35:54course with Doug Lenat who was one of
1:35:56the fathers of AI. I worked with Isaac
1:35:58Azimov and Arthur C. Clark in my first
1:36:01real job. So, I've been a science
1:36:03fiction person thinking about AI my
1:36:05whole life.
1:36:06>> And so, when it finally showed up, I was
1:36:08like, "Yes, it's finally here." And I'd
1:36:10been writing about it for a while. while
1:36:12I did some AI related products. Here's
1:36:14my two big ideas. Number one, this is
1:36:17the biggest change in our world since
1:36:20electricity.
1:36:22And number two, either you work for AI
1:36:25or AI works for you.
1:36:28And what do I mean by those two things?
1:36:30There were companies and workers in 1890
1:36:34who said, "Ah, I'll wait for electricity
1:36:36to go away. I'm just going to keep being
1:36:38a blacksmith or whatever it is." That
1:36:40did not work out very well. This is like
1:36:42that but much much faster.
1:36:45And then the AI thing is if you work for
1:36:47an AI, it's not going to treat you very
1:36:49well. It's not going to be secure and
1:36:51it's not going to make you happy because
1:36:54bosses are going to keep pushing the AI
1:36:56to do all the good parts and you to be a
1:36:59gig worker for all the parts that the AI
1:37:01can't do yet. But if you can say, I use
1:37:04AI to connect humans. I use AI to build
1:37:07a network of people.
1:37:09We don't know how to replace networks of
1:37:11people. And AI is never going to be able
1:37:13to replace networks of people. If you
1:37:14are trusted and connecting and leading
1:37:17using whatever AI tools you want, you're
1:37:20never going to have trouble making a
1:37:21living. And so that's what you say,
1:37:24okay, if I have these tools, how do I
1:37:27use them not to be a junior, smaller
1:37:29version of open AI, but use them the
1:37:33same way that the movie theater used
1:37:35electricity, right? That the electric
1:37:38company brought electricity to lots of
1:37:39businesses, but it took a movie theater
1:37:42to figure out how to get you to pay $5
1:37:43to see the movie. You used the word
1:37:45people and humans within that answer and
1:37:47it made me made me sort of think that
1:37:48actually maybe the great opportunity in
1:37:50in a world of artificial intelligence is
1:37:52not to try and be the world's best
1:37:55accountant because maybe the
1:37:57intelligence is going to be great at
1:37:58that but all the human stuff.
1:37:59>> Correct.
1:38:00>> All the human and the people stuff.
1:38:01>> Yes. Exactly right. Good taste.
1:38:04Understanding who trusts you and why.
1:38:08There are very few jobs where if I can
1:38:10write down what you do all day, I can't
1:38:12find an AI to do it faster and cheaper
1:38:14than you.
1:38:15>> Interesting.
1:38:16>> So, you want a job where I can't write
1:38:18down what you do all day [laughter] and
1:38:20then you'll be fine.
1:38:21>> Well, the quiet quitter is
1:38:23>> well, I mean, so if you think about what
1:38:26does a bookkeeper do? I can write down
1:38:28all the rules of bookkeeping and hire a
1:38:31different bookkeeper tomorrow and my
1:38:32business isn't going to fail.
1:38:35That's something AI is going to get
1:38:36really good at. really fast because once
1:38:38we can write down rules, AI knows how to
1:38:41follow them. On the other hand, somebody
1:38:44the way you were talking about u your
1:38:46good taste about who the next guest
1:38:48should be. You can't write down the
1:38:50algorithm for how to do that. your
1:38:53awareness of the world you're in. The
1:38:57fact that you have read so many books,
1:38:59met so many people, talked to so many
1:39:01listeners. I can't write all that down
1:39:03with instructions to get Claude to do
1:39:06that for me.
1:39:07>> I was thinking about my fiance actually.
1:39:08She runs a business called Bali Breath
1:39:10Work and what she does is she takes
1:39:12women away on these retreats for seven
1:39:14days. And I see these these the the sort
1:39:17of feedback and the testimonials and the
1:39:18videos that these women send and they
1:39:19love it. Mhm.
1:39:20>> I always say to her, don't worry about
1:39:22>> most of what they got out of it
1:39:24>> is each other.
1:39:25>> Yeah.
1:39:26>> And when we let the computer networks
1:39:29take over, it keeps pushing us away from
1:39:31each other. It pretends we're connecting
1:39:32on social media, but people are more
1:39:35lonely than ever before. But when we
1:39:37figure out how to connect human to
1:39:39human, we create value. And ultimately,
1:39:43if you want to make a living, you're
1:39:45going to have to create value. And the
1:39:47bosses that are right now cost reducing
1:39:50as fast as they can have no imagination.
1:39:53They're saying, "Oh, this is cheap,
1:39:55super offshore labor. It's called a
1:39:56computer. I can get rid of 400 customer
1:39:59service reps."
1:40:00>> They're racing to the bottom. Some
1:40:02people are racing to the top. How can I
1:40:04make this more human? How can I make it
1:40:07so that now that I've augmented doctors
1:40:09with these AI tools, they're going to
1:40:11spend more time per patient, not less
1:40:13time per patient? Mhm.
1:40:15>> Because we know that patients that have
1:40:18doctors that spend more time with them
1:40:19are more satisfied.
1:40:21>> So that's a business advantage because
1:40:24now someone can either stay home, talk
1:40:26to Dr. Google and figure out what's
1:40:27wrong with them and never go to the
1:40:28doctor or they can go to a doctor that's
1:40:30worth paying for because that doctor has
1:40:34an AI working for them.
1:40:37It's very true.
1:40:39Is there anything else in the knot
1:40:44that we haven't talked about that we
1:40:46should have talked about? Obviously, I
1:40:47want everyone to go and buy the book.
1:40:49Um, I I I love what you did on here. I
1:40:51think this is probably worth just
1:40:53spending a second on, but I mean, do you
1:40:57know when you see an idea and you just
1:40:58wish it was yours? [laughter]
1:41:00This is one such example.
1:41:02>> Yeah, that's the names of all the people
1:41:03who pre-ordered the book from my site
1:41:06and then I used a a gray tone. So if you
1:41:09look at it from a distance just right,
1:41:10it says the word purpose as in what is
1:41:13the project you're trying to do? Let me
1:41:16close with the story of of Dame Fina
1:41:18Cooper
1:41:19>> because a lot of times we talk about,
1:41:23you know, the personal thing. What
1:41:24should this Uber driver do? But then
1:41:26there other times we talk about systemic
1:41:28injustice. Are we all victims? So Dame
1:41:32Cooper was uh an indigenous person
1:41:35growing up in New Zealand and New
1:41:37Zealand was the last major country to be
1:41:39colonized by the United Kingdom and so
1:41:43huge amounts of native lands were taken
1:41:46and the uh indigenous people were
1:41:49disenfranchised in a lot of ways. It's
1:41:52really tragic when you think about it.
1:41:54And Dame Cooper at the age of 78 or so
1:41:58decided that she would use her status
1:42:01and affiliation within the tribe she was
1:42:04part of to capture the attention of the
1:42:06entire nation and try to put indigenous
1:42:10people's rights on the agenda. So you
1:42:14look at this and say here's this woman,
1:42:15she doesn't she's not famous. She
1:42:17doesn't have a lot of money. She's
1:42:19almost 80 years old. What could she
1:42:21possibly do? this is a problem or it's a
1:42:24situation. If it's a situation, what are
1:42:26we gonna do? Just live with it. But if
1:42:28it's a problem, let's figure out where
1:42:30are the pieces to make progress happen.
1:42:33She organizes 50 people. Most of us
1:42:36could organize 50 people. And they start
1:42:38marching to the Capitol
1:42:41and they do the work to spread the the
1:42:44news in advance. And day after day after
1:42:47day for more than a month, this group of
1:42:50people is walking to the Capitol. She's
1:42:52on the front page of every newspaper in
1:42:55New Zealand by halfway through. Now
1:42:58there's a 100 people, 200 people, 2,000
1:43:01people. By the time they get to the
1:43:03capital, there are 4,000 people
1:43:06patiently marching side by side. And
1:43:09they presented their demands,
1:43:11requirements, suggestions to the
1:43:14parliament. And too late, not enough.
1:43:17But in a very big way, it shifted the
1:43:20culture of the entire country, changed
1:43:22the laws about how land was allocated
1:43:25and made a really fundamental
1:43:28difference. She didn't do that by
1:43:30herself, but she understood she had
1:43:33enough agency to connect the others, to
1:43:36create a culture, to show up and show up
1:43:39and show up with a practice. So, if one
1:43:4280-year-old woman can change an entire
1:43:45country, what can we do? Right? We can't
1:43:49drive to London or Washington DC and
1:43:51change everything. But what we can do is
1:43:54find the others, come up with the story
1:43:57we can tell ourselves and the others and
1:43:59establish a new normal. The only way the
1:44:02world has ever changed is when a few
1:44:05people come together, build a culture
1:44:08and repeat it over and over and over
1:44:10again.
1:44:12For some reason when you talked about
1:44:14that and it was it was a very um
1:44:16motivating thing to hear the the subject
1:44:19of death came into my mind because I
1:44:21again I've dropped into the world of the
1:44:22listener right now and I guess I asked
1:44:25myself how you create that tension to do
1:44:28it today and not tomorrow
1:44:29>> right
1:44:30>> because there's never going to be a
1:44:31perfect time. Tomorrow is going to be
1:44:32imperfect. Next week's going to be
1:44:33imperfect. So, when faced with like lots
1:44:36of imperfect options, how do you create
1:44:37enough tension to get whoever's
1:44:40listening right now to like go do it?
1:44:42>> Yeah. When the person you're dreaming of
1:44:44becoming meets the person you become,
1:44:47how's that meeting going to go?
1:44:50How do you become the person your future
1:44:51self thanks you for?
1:44:54Because most of us have regret. I wish I
1:44:57had done something when I was 20 or 30
1:44:59or 40. Well, that regret's a powerful
1:45:02fuel. You said this to me before we
1:45:04started recording about regret.
1:45:06>> Yeah.
1:45:06>> And you said that
1:45:08>> it's actually not about what you want to
1:45:10accomplish. I think you said it's
1:45:11actually about some of the things that
1:45:12you wish you had done.
1:45:14>> Yeah. So when I think about my mistakes
1:45:17>> Yeah.
1:45:17>> And I've had so many mistakes. The
1:45:19mistakes I regret the most are the
1:45:21things I didn't do, not the things I
1:45:23tried that failed. The person I didn't
1:45:26help, the lesson I didn't teach, the
1:45:28door I didn't open. Because it's easy to
1:45:31ignore those things and just move on.
1:45:34But that's our power, our leverage, our
1:45:36agency is to be able to say, "There's a
1:45:39thing I could do. There's someone on
1:45:41that street corner who needs a hand. How
1:45:43do we build a thing that our future self
1:45:46will thank us for doing today?" And so I
1:45:49spent two years organizing the carbon
1:45:51almanac with 1900 co-authors, full-time
1:45:54volunteer work for me. And the 1900 of
1:45:59us got something out of seeing each
1:46:01other, working with each other,
1:46:02realizing we could do something about
1:46:04our understanding of our climate
1:46:06problem. And then it became a bestseller
1:46:08in five or six countries and opened the
1:46:10door for many of the people who
1:46:11participated in it to have more leverage
1:46:13and to do the next thing. But when I
1:46:16think about that day when I said, "Well,
1:46:19I could post something about this and
1:46:21see who shows up." It would have been
1:46:22super easy to say, "Nah, let's just go
1:46:25see what's on Star Trek today."
1:46:28But the habit, the practice of saying,
1:46:30"Okay, this is the next thing."
1:46:33That begins this generative positive
1:46:35cycle. And it's contagious.
1:46:38And that's the magic of this sort of
1:46:40virus. If the generative contagious idea
1:46:43of who can I open a door for spreads,
1:46:47then you're probably going to end up
1:46:48living in a world that's more like the
1:46:49world you want to live in.
1:46:51Why do you continue to do things?
1:46:53Because you you've written more books
1:46:54here than I could bloody carry. I mean,
1:46:57you know, I was saying to you when you
1:46:58arrived that when I started my career as
1:47:00a marketeteer, which is, you know, that
1:47:02website that failed turned into a
1:47:04marketing business essentially and then
1:47:05I and then people everybody gives you
1:47:07this book when you get into marketing,
1:47:08which is your book, this is marketing,
1:47:10and they use your ideas all the time. I
1:47:12mean, one could say, Seth, you've done
1:47:14enough. Uh, maybe now is a good time to
1:47:17just enjoy it. they might say. Why do
1:47:19you keep going?
1:47:21>> You know, when I invented email
1:47:22marketing all those years ago, I needed
1:47:24to do it to make a living, to eat, and
1:47:27it was thrilling to watch an industry
1:47:29grow up out of that.
1:47:32But after that, writing books is a lousy
1:47:35way to make a living, but it's a pretty
1:47:37good way to make a difference. And I
1:47:40said, don't turn uh your hobby into a
1:47:43business because you'll ruin both of
1:47:44them. But it's interesting to think
1:47:47about turning your business into a
1:47:48hobby, into the thing you love to do.
1:47:51And if someone said, "I can't share
1:47:52ideas anymore." I'm not exactly sure how
1:47:55I would spend my day. For me, when I
1:47:58hear from somebody who says, "I learned
1:48:00something from someone who learned it
1:48:02from someone who learned it from someone
1:48:04who learned it from you." That's
1:48:06thrilling. The only thing I'm trying to
1:48:08do is turn on some lights for people,
1:48:11offer them some dignity, and create the
1:48:13next cycle. And if you sign up for that,
1:48:16I'm not sure how you can stop.
1:48:18>> Now, maybe, just maybe, listen, I'm not
1:48:20that superstitious, but maybe there's a
1:48:21couple of people that found this
1:48:23conversation and they got to this point
1:48:24in the conversation for some kind of
1:48:26reason. And I imagine it's because they
1:48:28are in, you know, they have their knot
1:48:31somewhere. So, just to close off for
1:48:33those people who currently are in a bit
1:48:35of a knot, it could be a job, a
1:48:36relationship, a situationship, whatever
1:48:38it might be. What is your sort of
1:48:40closing remarks to those people that are
1:48:42a bit stuck and that are on that
1:48:43precipice of maybe taking a leap, a step
1:48:46forward, but they're they're tied up a
1:48:48little bit like these knots are.
1:48:51>> Yeah. You're not alone. We all are.
1:48:54Every single one of us, especially me,
1:48:56we're all stuck it with something.
1:48:58>> Yeah.
1:48:58>> And you can forgive that and then say,
1:49:02"Okay, who can I contribute to today?
1:49:05who can I offer help to and maybe ask
1:49:09for help? And it doesn't mean that where
1:49:12you are is fair and it doesn't mean that
1:49:15what you're feeling isn't real. It is
1:49:17real. The only question is what will we
1:49:19do next?
1:49:21>> I've really sort of taken to heart this
1:49:22idea as well that you we talked about
1:49:24earlier of um just being really clear on
1:49:26which voice you're serving.
1:49:28>> Mhm.
1:49:29>> Because everyone's life is a noisy place
1:49:31increasingly.
1:49:32>> Yeah. You know, we're so connected in a
1:49:36digital sense. We're so connected to
1:49:38other people's lives. And even if
1:49:40someone isn't directly shouting at us
1:49:42and telling us what to go be and who to
1:49:44become, their life is.
1:49:45>> Yeah.
1:49:46>> Seeing them in Hawaii on a beach having
1:49:48a margarita is shouting at me, telling
1:49:50me that my life sucks and that I should
1:49:51change it and that I should be more like
1:49:53them. And in such a noisy world, I think
1:49:55maybe some of the most critical advice
1:49:57you've you've left me with is this
1:49:58central idea of like getting clear on
1:50:01which voice in my life I'm going to
1:50:02listen to.
1:50:03>> Yeah.
1:50:04>> Cuz we fail. We end up in a knot when we
1:50:06try and serve them all.
1:50:08>> People are really lucky to have this
1:50:10show. The way you show up, you've been
1:50:12narrating this kind of journey for years
1:50:14now and you probably don't hear it often
1:50:16enough, but it's important and thank you
1:50:19for doing it. Oh, well that's a
1:50:20unbelievable compliment coming from one
1:50:22of my sort of personal icons. So, I
1:50:24appreciate that a lot. The knot problems
1:50:26can be solved. Comes out in September.
1:50:29If it's September, it's out now. If it's
1:50:31not, you can pre-order it. There'll be a
1:50:33link um below. But I think, you know,
1:50:35again, in the context of the world, I
1:50:37think unfortunately we might find
1:50:39ourselves in even more knots. So, this
1:50:40is a wonderful thing, I think, to buy
1:50:42for somebody in your life that might be
1:50:44in a little bit of a knot themselves.
1:50:45Um, but also to buy for yourself if you
1:50:48find yourself in one. Seth, we have a
1:50:50closing tradition on this podcast where
1:50:51the last guest leaves a question for the
1:50:52next, not knowing who they're leaving it
1:50:54for. And the question left for you, if
1:50:57you were given the opportunity to live
1:50:59forever, would you take it?
1:51:02>> No. That was quick. [laughter]
1:51:04I think walking through the world as the
1:51:07only immortal person would be
1:51:10heartbreaking and innovating and wear
1:51:14you out much faster than you think. If
1:51:17everyone was immortal, I think we would
1:51:20play by different rules as a planet and
1:51:22that would be fascinating. But that
1:51:24wasn't the question. I think if you read
1:51:26enough science fiction, you realize that
1:51:28selective immortality is a real curse.
1:51:31>> Why? Because everyone around you is
1:51:35dying and you're not. Every single day,
1:51:37everyone's dying just a little bit more.
1:51:40And we define our humanity by our
1:51:42connections.
1:51:43>> And we're all on this journey together.
1:51:45And all of a sudden, you opted out of
1:51:46the journey. You're the only person on
1:51:48the boat that's not going where the
1:51:50boat's going. And in the short run, it
1:51:53would be nice that my shoulders didn't
1:51:54hurt and that my voice was fixed and
1:51:56things like that, but that would get old
1:51:58really fast.
1:52:00That point of connection is so
1:52:02interesting because it immediately made
1:52:03me think about my friendship circle.
1:52:05I've got these five best friends that
1:52:06I've had for the last 15 years and we're
1:52:08all progressing through the life stages
1:52:10together. Like they've all started
1:52:11having kids now and then I'm trying to
1:52:13have a kid at the moment and so we're
1:52:15like talking about that together and
1:52:16we're connecting about that together and
1:52:18it makes you know and actually my
1:52:21nightmare would be to be the only one
1:52:23that wasn't in that life phase right
1:52:25now. I feel disconnected.
1:52:27>> Yeah.
1:52:28>> Gosh. If I lived forever, I would Yeah.
1:52:30No, I've I've never wanted to live
1:52:31forever. I think it's I think it's um
1:52:33people need to think about the
1:52:34trade-offs of of everything in their
1:52:36life, but particularly this idea of
1:52:38longevity,
1:52:38>> embracing this moment, you lose that.
1:52:41>> I highly recommend just before we do
1:52:42wrap up, people go read your blog as
1:52:44well. I'm going to link that below.
1:52:45>> Thank you,
1:52:46>> Seth. We're done.
1:52:47>> What a treat.
1:52:48>> YouTube have this new crazy algorithm
1:52:49where they know exactly what video you
1:52:52would like to watch next based on AI and
1:52:54all of your viewing behavior. And the
1:52:56algorithm says that this video is the
1:52:59perfect video for you. It's different
1:53:01for everybody looking right now. Check
1:53:02this video out and I bet you you might
1:53:04love it.

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of The Quitting Expert: Quit NOW Before AI Makes The Choice For You, This Is a Superpower! | Seth Godin by The Diary Of A CEO, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 22,248 words across 3,185 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.