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The Progressive Assault on the American Idea | Larry Arnn — Transcript

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0:00Have you noticed that things happening
0:02in politics are rather exciting right
0:04now? I do believe that we are in a very
0:06fundamental turning point. Crisis, the
0:08word crisis is just it means turning
0:10point. I don't think I know how it's
0:12going to come out. At some point, the
0:14cultural elites, they essentially
0:17decided there is no such thing as truth
0:20in the sense that we had understood
0:21transcendent. Eternal transcendent truth
0:24does not exist. The trouble with the
0:27progressives
0:29is that they claim the power to put
0:32everything right while abandoning the
0:36two standards that can establish what is
0:39right. One of them nature and the other
0:43God.
0:45And therefore, if you get more power and
0:48yet the only thing that remains to
0:50decide how to use it is will
0:54it can become very dangerous.
1:01It's my privilege to welcome Dr. Larry
1:04Arin to Socrates in the City. Dr. Arin,
1:07please join us out here.
1:14Welcome. Welcome to Kentucky.
1:19This is a great book. I'm a writer. Uh I
1:24think ideas are
1:26um very very important. So this book is
1:30uh
1:32it is important. It is in fact extremely
1:35important. I don't say that lightly. And
1:38happiest of all, it is gloriously
1:40written.
1:41uh as someone who uh prides himself on
1:44writing well, I have to say you have uh
1:46you have just done a a spectacular job.
1:49These the ideas in the book are
1:52too important not to be written about
1:55well. So, thank you for doing that and I
1:58uh of course I mean it. So, it was a joy
2:01to read. Let me um let's start with the
2:04most benal question which I think has to
2:06be asked anyway. What led you
2:10to write this? And I the subtext maybe
2:13is how is it that someone hasn't written
2:17a book like this? Because these
2:20you know to talk about seinal documents,
2:22it doesn't get more seinal than these
2:24two documents. What what was it uh in
2:27your life uh that led you to say I need
2:30to say what you say in the book? Uh
2:33thank you. by the way his book on
2:35Bonhaofer is one of the great books of
2:39our time.
2:42So uh first of all every important thing
2:45we do in life we do for love and uh I
2:48happen to love those documents but there
2:50was there is a problem uh the problem in
2:52the scholarship
2:54uh and uh the claim that reigns uh is
2:59that the declarance of people like that
3:04uh they think the constitution is a
3:06reaction against it and that idea
3:10actually grew up in the civil war and is
3:13resurrected in our time. In the civil
3:16war, the idea was the constitution which
3:20protects the authority of states to
3:24arrange their domestic institutions
3:27was wellliked by southerners who like
3:30slavery
3:32uh and they didn't like the declaration
3:34of independence.
3:36uh in modern times uh
3:40the left especially in most scholarship
3:42these days you probably know is left um
3:47the left fancies the declaration of
3:50independence and doesn't like the
3:51constitution
3:53and so to the people who wrote the
3:55constitution and the declaration of
3:57independence and there's heavy overlap
3:59in those two documents and to the
4:03politics of Abraham Lincoln a very great
4:05Man, that's a strange idea that they
4:08would not be connected. And so what is
4:11the connection? And you know there are
4:14scholarly arguments breaking out into
4:16the public prince where somebody will
4:18say uh it's a reaction. The constitution
4:23is a reaction. There's a man named
4:25Joseph Ellis and he's a famous historian
4:29and widely selling historian and he
4:31begins his his book by saying uh that uh
4:39to the uh declaration independence
4:42government is an alien force
4:46and then they think better of that and
4:49write the constitution. That's how his
4:51book. Okay, we And just to translate,
4:53that's total nonsense. It's so funny to
4:55me because you're you're you're too
4:57generous to put it that way. I'm not. Um
5:00it's just rank nonsense. And it's
5:03astonishing that an historian of the
5:06caliber of uh Joseph Ellis could say
5:10something like that. You generously
5:13dissect the the fallacy of that in in
5:16this book. But I I always want to start
5:19there with this with with the idea with
5:21just with this idea of how extraordinary
5:23it is that we could have people of that
5:26caliber
5:27putting forth those ideas. Are you ever
5:29taken aback just by that? Because yeah
5:31well so you know first of all everybody
5:35should read Aristotle. You've all read
5:36Aristotle, right? Which which part of
5:38Aristotle? Any part. But uh you should
5:41start with the Niclian ethics. But if
5:45you read classic philosophy, which I've
5:47been privileged to do,
5:50you identify what makes a thing a thing,
5:53right? Like this is a chair and it it it
5:58is made of something. It has a material
6:00cause and then it's a uh somebody made
6:04it. That's its efficient cause and it
6:08has a formal cause shaped like a chair.
6:13And then it has a final cause and that
6:16is it's for sitting in and if it had
6:19just three legs it wouldn't be very
6:20good. Uh and so everything you you learn
6:24to think first of all the United States
6:26of America you know the declaration of
6:28Vince is 250 years old next year and it
6:31is surely one of the most consequential
6:34political documents in human history and
6:37the United States of America is one of
6:39the most significant countries in human
6:43history whether you like it or not.
6:45Right now,
6:48the formal cause of the United States of
6:50America is the Constitution of the
6:53United States. That's what it looks
6:55like. That's how it works, right? And
6:57the final cause is stated in the
7:00Declaries of Independence. And so, if
7:03you claim that there's a contradiction
7:06between those things, then you're
7:08claiming that it the United States of
7:09America is not in fact a real thing.
7:12It's stupid, as you say. And so I didn't
7:16I would never stoop to use the word
7:17stupid, but I uh remember but I implied
7:21stupid. When you say that it's stupid,
7:22of course it's stupid. But what's
7:24interesting, it's also telling uh
7:26because it's it's schizophrenic
7:29and it's destructive. The idea that
7:32someone would think, and I want to get
7:33into this, the progressives and Wilson,
7:35but the idea that someone could
7:38plausibly believe that you could throw
7:42away our Constitution or rewrite or or
7:46some lunatic pundit just a few weeks ago
7:49or divorce the two things or divorce
7:52them, which is the same thing. But it's
7:53it's it's it's it's one of the reasons
7:56your book is so important to show the um
8:00inescapable link uh between them. But I
8:03I I think it's fair to say that until I
8:05read your book um I assumed a link, but
8:11I did not understand the link. And so
8:13you do a great service. So So let me ask
8:16you again uh if because I don't think
8:18you really said it. H what led you to
8:20say I have to write a book that shows
8:24the unavoidable
8:26link between these two seinal documents?
8:29Well, it first of all, if you're, you
8:33know, a scholar or
8:36a disciplined and perceptive human
8:38being, which you all are, you wouldn't
8:40be here by the way if you weren't like
8:41that. Then you try to understand things
8:45as they are. And that means you need to
8:48if you're going to look at it, you need
8:49to understand it in its wholeness. What
8:52is it that makes it what it is? I I
8:54happen to be married to an English
8:55woman. Like all good men, I wear way
8:58above myself. But England is not the
9:00same thing as America. What
9:02distinguishes them, right? You want to
9:05know. Now, a second particular motive is
9:09uh Eric and I both believe have believed
9:12for some time that the United States is
9:15in a crisis that's uh rather like the
9:18crisis of the American Revolution and
9:20the Civil War because it concerns those
9:23formal and final causes. What is the
9:26country for? How is it supposed to
9:28operate and be governed? and and so
9:32you know when you've got a thing like
9:34that
9:36uh and you're a citizen you care about
9:38your country then you want to try to
9:41sort that out what is the root of the
9:44matter and so that's what I tried to do
9:46and and uh it's it's you know he here's
9:51a delicious little story I have many
9:53mischievous colleagues at the college
9:55where I work a lot of been there a long
9:56time and so I wrote that book and
9:59published did and one of my mischievous
10:01college colleagues set up for me to
10:03debate Joseph Ellis and uh is this is
10:08this colleague still working under you
10:09and they still he's he's in fact I've
10:13worked with a guy now came with me from
10:16Claremont uh but Ellis agreed and then
10:20he sent him the book and I point out in
10:24the opening pages of the book that uh
10:28Ellis claims that the declaration of
10:30independence treats government as an
10:32alien force.
10:34That's what he says. Whereas I say
10:39they claim that the king, one of his
10:41perfectities is to refuse his ascent to
10:45laws most wholesome and necessary to the
10:48public good.
10:51Government is not an alien force, is
10:53wholesome and necessary. And the
10:56Declaration of Independence happens to
10:57be 1,320
10:59words long. It's not very hard to find
11:02out what's in it. And so I point that
11:04out in the beginning of the book if
11:06memory serves. And Mr. Ellis canled his
11:09appearance when he got the book. And you
11:13know, bless him, I think he meant well,
11:16but you know, I think I think Hitler
11:18meant well. I think he did. And the
11:22point is why would somebody think that
11:26these you know the most successful
11:28revolution in America in world history
11:32modern history for sure is ours and it
11:35took two things because you know after
11:38they won fliin war which they had no
11:41idea they could then now they got to set
11:44up a government and no one had ever set
11:46up a government like this before never
11:49happened right and their first effort
11:52was a failure and they did it in the
11:54middle of the war. They just did it in
11:56the ordinary legislature. The thing
11:59wasn't great. And so they took 11 years
12:03to get it right. And that is the oldest
12:06surviving constitution in human history.
12:10None has ever lasted as long as ours
12:12has. So it's got to be a big thing,
12:16right? What habit of mind
12:19would make you divorce those things? And
12:22I think I know what it is. I think it's
12:25a movement. Why did John C. Calhoun
12:30call the Declaration of Independence a
12:33self-evident lie? A self-evident lie.
12:36Lie. Right. Well, he thought slavery was
12:40good. Argued it out loud explicitly.
12:43Right. that Christ independence doesn't
12:45say that. So, you can see why he didn't
12:47like it. And this was what in the in the
12:491840s, the 1850s. Okay. I have to
12:52confess that uh uh I went to uh Yale
12:57University as an undergraduate and
13:00attended Calhoun College named after
13:02John C. Calhoun. And when they recently
13:04changed the name, I sneered as I
13:08normally do at anything like that
13:12because
13:14we're living in times where where people
13:16change everything because they don't
13:17like things. But it seems to me that in
13:19the case of Calhoun, they were right to
13:22do it because of of of who he was. I So
13:26we don't need to adjudicate that. But
13:28I'm saying that when you really So when
13:29you say in your book what he said, it is
13:32startling. Yeah. Well, the reason not to
13:34do it is that Calvin was important and
13:36it's part of our story and part of
13:38Yale's story, right? And you know, I'm
13:40it's it's an easy call for me. Hills
13:43College was founded by abolitionist
13:45preachers, right? And we had a big part
13:48in the Civil War. And so my statues were
13:50of Abe Lincoln and Fred Douglas who were
13:53revered. Fred Douglas spoke on our
13:55campus twice. So I don't have that
13:57problem. If I did, what would I do? I
14:00wouldn't lightly decide to take it away
14:05because another thing is you know uh
14:09history is a bunch of stuff that
14:12happened right uh Thomas Coinus and
14:16Aristotle both right they wrote a lot of
14:18the same things this alone is denied
14:21even to God to make what has been not to
14:24have been and that means if if we had if
14:29John C. Calhoun have been revered on our
14:31campus. My first impulse would be to
14:34explain it,
14:35you know, because why do you why do you
14:38put up a monument so you can remember?
14:41And there are evil things to remember.
14:43You should remember them. And and you
14:45know, we're in the teaching business
14:46here tonight and all the time, right?
14:48All of us are in the learning business.
14:51So your monuments should explain.
14:55Well, just to get back to the idea that
14:58Calhoun
14:59uh as a
15:01genuinely uh racist pro-slavery figure
15:06did not like the Constitution uh sorry
15:08the did like the Constitution and which
15:11and we understand that we disagree with
15:12him but we understand it. What has it
15:14been in more recent years? We touched
15:16very recently on Joseph Ellis but talk
15:18about the progressives and Wilson. When
15:20did the idea that we could plausibly
15:25get rid of uh the constitution at least
15:28pretty significantly when did that idea
15:31come into being? You think about those
15:32two conceptions form and final formal
15:35and final causes. The form of a thing is
15:38what it looks like or this is a chair.
15:40If it didn't have a back on it, if it
15:42only had three legs, it wouldn't be a
15:43good one, you know. Well,
15:47what the formal cause of America has
15:51been radically changed and that what I'm
15:54about to say is not controversial.
15:57In 1930 or any year before that, the
16:00government was as a percentage of the of
16:03the private sector was 12%.
16:06Now it's 51%.
16:08Uh, say I'm sorry, say that again. I
16:11didn't get that.
16:1339%
16:15of the gross domestic product of the of
16:17the nation has been moved from the
16:19private to the public sector. And that's
16:23sensitive in a nation that's supposed to
16:26be a liberal society in which we make
16:28our own way and control our government,
16:30right? And may maybe they think it's a
16:32good idea. May maybe you think it's a
16:33good idea. That's fine. My point is only
16:36it's different. It's a big change,
16:39right? And so
16:42those people
16:44uh the the progressive left beginning in
16:47about 1890
16:49something like that
16:51they began to make an assault upon the
16:54name of the constitution
16:57upon the constitution it's obsolete
17:01uh it's a mechanism you have to have an
17:04organic system that's wooded Wilson uh
17:07and and and so we have and we have new
17:10purposes for the government. So they're
17:12changing the final cause, too. But they
17:15reinterpret the words in the Declaration
17:17of Independence to mean something they
17:19didn't mean at the time.
17:22And then they
17:24uh denounced the Constitution as a
17:27reaction against this document, right?
17:30And so that's the politics of what is
17:33what's at the heart of it. In other
17:34words, in the in the book, you talk a
17:36lot about I mean the genius of the
17:38founders to create it. It it's we've
17:41lost most of us the uh the awe uh that
17:45that we ought to have at what they did
17:47at what they accomplished to to to
17:48understand human nature and then to say
17:50okay we're going to have these kinds of
17:51checks and balances and uh and it has
17:55worked at some point the folks you're
17:58you're talking about said we don't well
18:01we don't like the way it's structured uh
18:03and we want I I think you make the case
18:06that they they're basically setting up a
18:08fourth
18:09um branch of of government internal
18:12another change in the form is that we
18:14don't make our laws in the congress
18:15anymore
18:17and you know so what do you mean by that
18:19well I mean that uh in 1840 and 1940 and
18:262024
18:28Congress passed between 150 and 300 laws
18:32which is about what it does it works
18:33about the same way it used to right
18:35labor two two houses, pass the bill,
18:39send it to the president, maybe he'll
18:40sign it. That process uh produces about
18:45the same quantity that it always
18:46produced a range. Uh last year I think
18:50that the number of pages that were added
18:52to the Federal Register were 85,000.
18:55And and that means that those those
18:58bills, those 150 to 300 bills, they
19:02might be
19:058,000 pages.
19:07And so 10 times as many was made in a
19:11bunch of agencies.
19:13And there's actually an academic dispute
19:16about how many they are. There's a sort
19:20of consensus that it's somewhere around
19:22150. But people who study that in the in
19:25the in the academy where I work, some of
19:28them think it's 148, some of them think
19:30it's 156. Elon Musk was saying, you
19:33know, that he thinks it's 450. God knows
19:35how many there are if you don't even
19:37know how many there are. How can you
19:39keep track of what they're doing? And
19:42and and and my point again is that may
19:45be a good thing and it may be a bad
19:46thing. The thing to understand is it's a
19:49different thing. It works differently.
19:53You see, and then then you're asking me
19:56the question why' they do that. And the
19:58answer is
20:00uh you have to understand the
20:01declaration of independence and see why
20:03why they don't like it. But uh begin
20:06with the initial the initial part. The
20:08declaration of independence comes in
20:09three parts, right? And the first part
20:11is the beautiful universal eternal
20:15cosmic part. We should all memorize
20:18that.
20:19uh when in the course of human events
20:21that means any time in human events it
20:23becomes necessary for one people that
20:24means any people to dissolve the
20:27political bands that have connected with
20:28another and assume among the powers of
20:30the earth the separate and equal station
20:32to which the laws of nature and of
20:34nature's god entitled them now those are
20:37eternal laws right and the curious thing
20:40about them is we don't make them
20:43and that's that's
20:45uh any any thinker after Socrates ities
20:50would understand the meaning of that
20:52expression.
20:53Thomas Aquinus writes uh
20:57what do we mean by the expression
20:59natural law? He said it is the rational
21:02creature's participation in God's
21:04governance of the universe. In other
21:06words, you can just see, right? You can
21:09see uh in my family, we have we raised
21:13children and boxer dogs and uh and uh
21:17and they're not the same kind of thing.
21:20And then
21:22although for the first two years they
21:24live on the floor and eat each other's
21:25food
21:27and and uh and and then they change,
21:30right? And so one of the meanings of the
21:32declaration of independence that's very
21:34simple to understand is when it says all
21:36men are created equal. It means that the
21:39way you can govern any boxer dog is not
21:42the same as the way that any child must
21:45be governed because they're different
21:47kind of thing. That is what their
21:48equality is. Now see that is a glorious
21:54revolutionary
21:55fixity.
21:58uh you understand that the great
21:59revolution of the United States of
22:02America the most successful in history
22:04begins as an act of obedience
22:08these are these laws we are going to
22:12obey them you see and you king are not
22:15and that's our dispute that's how it's
22:17written well along comes another
22:20movement and that's it's it's uh comes
22:25to America from German historicism
22:28uh the people who murdered Dietrich Bon
22:32Bonhofer were followers of a form the
22:35Nazi form of a similar movement and that
22:38what what is that idea it's not
22:41necessarily virilent
22:44uh you know Hitler is very virulent and
22:45Marx is very virulent and a murderer
22:48both of them calling for murder anyway
22:52uh but the idea is that we've come to
22:56understand that everything evolves.
23:00That uh we think differently because
23:03we're born here and now than we would if
23:06we're born somewhere else, earlier,
23:08later, different place.
23:11And so we're shaped by history. And
23:14history is now a process. So not the
23:18laws of nature and nature's god not any
23:22time in the course of human events
23:26uh change change is vital change is
23:30decisive and then in Hegel
23:34uh because it's there's a there's a
23:37philosophic problem in that which I'll
23:41try to state quickly.
23:43If you think that your being, your
23:46thoughts, your mental outlook,
23:48everything is shaped by time and your
23:52circumstances in which you live, how can
23:54you have objective knowledge of that or
23:58anything else?
24:00That's that's at the heart of it, isn't
24:01it? days and of course I think of Darwin
24:03but the the point is that at some point
24:07um the the let's call them the cultural
24:10elites decided they didn't say it as
24:14that didn't say as much but they
24:16essentially decided there is no such
24:18thing as truth in the sense that we had
24:20understood eternal transcendent truth
24:24does not exist. Uh and so they
24:28put forward the idea that well uh on the
24:31bright side truth is always evolving.
24:32They they didn't actually necessarily
24:35not all of them at least claim there is
24:37no truth. They kind of dodged the
24:40question by saying it's evolving. So
24:43there's one more step. Um because you
24:46know Friedick Hegel is
24:49not stupid to say the least that can be
24:51said. And he sees the problem and here's
24:54how he solves it. He says that at the
24:57end of history
24:59only then it all becomes apparent.
25:04Uh he's he he's a very technical writer.
25:08Sometimes I threaten students if they're
25:10naughty to say I'm going to make you
25:11read Hegel again. But uh um he says the
25:16owl of Manurva flies at dusk. So at the
25:19end you can look back and see. And so
25:22the German historicist and the American
25:25progressives,
25:27they believe that this is a decisively
25:29opportune moment in human history when
25:32we can take control of everything
25:35because we're at the end of history. And
25:38they don't like the Constitution because
25:41it's in the way.
25:43Divides power, responsive to ordinary
25:46common sense of the people. And so they
25:49want to reform that and they reinterpret
25:52the declaration of independence to
25:53empower that. And so and that's what
25:56we're living with today. That's you know
25:58in my opinion that's what the argument
26:01is about. I mean have you noticed that
26:03things happening in politics are rather
26:05exciting right now? And and uh and you
26:10know I I believe this this is uh I do
26:13believe that we are in a very
26:15fundamental turning point. crisis. The
26:17word crisis is just it means turning
26:19point. Uh
26:22uh I don't think I know how it's going
26:24to come out. I do enjoy the fact that
26:26it's being taken on in the way it is.
26:28But uh I believe in American history. I
26:32believe the timing of the American
26:33Revolution and the timing of the Civil
26:36War and I suspect although things nearer
26:40harder to see from you can't see them as
26:42well. I believe that those things are
26:45timed by the fact that it just gets to a
26:47point where it can't go on and
26:48something's got to be done. That's why
26:50the revolution broke out when it did.
26:52That's why the Civil War broke out when
26:54it did. And and you know, they've been
26:56arguing about it for 30 years, the Civil
26:58War. But now, you know, Americans,
27:03they're heading west. That's actually
27:05part of the timing of the American
27:07Revolution was that too because the king
27:10tried to stop people going west because
27:12he was doing diplomacy with the Indians
27:14and the French and the French see the
27:17English the French and the Spanish set
27:21men missionaries and soldiers and all
27:25you got to do is work in a college for a
27:27while and you'll figure out that a
27:29society only of men is a dysfunctional
27:31society.
27:33Uh
27:35said the girls all know and and uh you
27:39know my wife knows but uh the English
27:42had families and they grew. They were
27:45called plantations.
27:47They planted something and he grew and
27:49they took up a lot of room and that gave
27:52the English in their diplomacy a
27:54disadvantage with the natives and so the
27:57king was trying to stop it. Well, what
27:59happened in 1854?
28:02People are going west and the question
28:05is can they take their slaves
28:09and it's it slavery was not the kind of
28:12thing where you could just pick up your
28:16slaves and go. You need a lot of help to
28:19keep them because like in the Alabama
28:22slave code which is in our
28:23constitutional reader at the college you
28:25can read it there.
28:27Every free white male was obliged,
28:29slaveholder or no, to ride posy one
28:31night a month looking for runaways
28:34because although they were apparently
28:35happy in their servitude, they did
28:37persist in trying to get away. So you
28:39got to have a comprehensive system of
28:41law to support it. And Steven Douglas in
28:45this, you know,
28:48Lincoln Douglas debates, he came up with
28:50the idea, just let each locality decide.
28:55But that wouldn't work because are you
28:58going to take them or not?
29:00And you know before you've got a
29:02territory even, let alone a state and so
29:04what they do is they start killing each
29:06other in Kansas and and Nebraska and
29:08then something's got to be done right.
29:11Well, I you know I think that's things
29:14like that are going on in politics today
29:16and I think the choice is between that
29:20nexus between the Declaration of
29:22Independence and the Constitution or
29:25a more progressive idea
29:28that uh you can't you can't understand
29:31progressivism without talking about the
29:33word science.
29:35uh uh science the science comes from a
29:39Latin word that just means to know but
29:41today mostly we mean by technology
29:45uh technology comes from the Greek word
29:47techn which translates well as art as in
29:50artificial anything we make techn
29:54uh so science has become a tool of
29:59making things right and solve problems
30:04see it's not you know like Galileo and
30:07Newton. They're like they're terribly
30:10like
30:11Thomas Coinus and Martin Luther and
30:15Aristotle and Plato. They all had
30:17something in common. They thought the
30:20highest human experience was to behold a
30:24beautiful thing.
30:26A beautiful thing always has to be an
30:28eternal thing. The ultimate eternal
30:30thing is God. So beatitude is the
30:34Christian word for meeting God and you
30:37get to look at him you know because he's
30:38perfect simply be eternal too right so
30:44the object of science in the ancient
30:46sense is to perceive and understand and
30:50behold things that last forever
30:54especially high or ultimate things. The
30:56new idea of science is where are we
30:58making the society? Uh you know Harvard
31:01is fighting with Donald Trump right now
31:03and we our college doesn't have to take
31:06any money from the government. So I can
31:07tell you I'm very much in demand right
31:09now by the networks and stuff.
31:13How would Harvard make that work? But I
31:16always say yeah they got more money than
31:17we do. They probably could. But um
31:22they're saying
31:25if you don't give us a lot of money and
31:26let us run the place exactly the way we
31:28want,
31:30we won't cure cancer for you. They the
31:33the president Garber of Harvard said
31:35that specific thing yesterday. Right? So
31:38in other words, this was not President
31:40Gay because then we would know she's
31:42plagiarizing that idea from somebody
31:44else. This is the This is the new
31:46president whose plagiarism we haven't
31:48yet caught. That's it. That's it. Yeah.
31:50Yeah. So anyway, it's a and you know to
31:54understand your country, it's you know I
31:56I've made the argument that it's just
31:58like understanding this chair. It's just
32:00like understanding anything you look at.
32:02Try to explain it. There is four things
32:04about it that if you can get them right,
32:05you will understand it. And and if you
32:09to understand our country in its
32:11beginning, it's to put together those
32:14things and you know the the the material
32:16cause of the United States of America is
32:18the land on which we live,
32:21right? And and the people who live on
32:23it, a blessed land, right? They were
32:26very charmed by the land. George
32:28Washington named it the Continental Army
32:31in 1776 and no American representative
32:35crossed the continent and came back
32:36until 1806. He he didn't live to see it.
32:39He never knew how big the continent was,
32:42but he was very taken with it. See, it's
32:45our land and it's a new land. We get to
32:48start over. We bring European
32:51civilization
32:53to a new world and understand that can't
32:56happen again. We got to start over,
32:59right? They they regarded that as the
33:02last best hope of mankind on earth. So
33:06who did the Thomas Jefferson and then
33:09later Abraham Lincoln histo
33:12Lincoln said it, but you're saying that
33:13the founders themselves were thought of
33:15it that They thought they thought that
33:18you know first of all it took 150 years
33:20after the first English settlers
33:24to get the country founded and they
33:27didn't come with that idea and they had
33:29150 years to learn and then beginning in
33:321763 they got into a conflict with
33:34Britain because Britain decided to
33:37govern us now they spent a lot of money
33:39they won their second big war with the
33:41French we helped them they helped us and
33:43so now they're saying heck
33:45We got to get some dough out of these
33:47guys. But we had developed over 150
33:51years the most elaborate and richest
33:54representative political institutions in
33:56human history all over the seabboard
34:00where the colonists were. And so the
34:02king, he doesn't know anything about
34:04that. and his ministers. If it had been
34:06two two particular guys who were great
34:09human beings, Burke and Pit
34:12were friends of the American Revolution,
34:14enemies of the French Revolution because
34:17it wasn't good, they thought. Uh but
34:20they were out of power and so the king
34:23had Grenville and Townshend and a bunch
34:27of idiots and uh you know at one point
34:30they sent because Benjen Franklin was
34:33you know the founders by the way are
34:34very remarkable bunch of people. I mean
34:36it's just the collection of them is
34:39awesome. And then you get to study the
34:41individual ones and you go wow you know
34:44each one there's a bunch of them. thing.
34:46Well, Franklin was
34:49uh
34:51what do you put it? Not the word shifty.
34:53He was a very artful human being.
34:55Cunning. He was very flexible, you know.
34:59He he he he cultivated a uh shrewd.
35:02Yeah. He cultivated a reputation for
35:05downhome piety. He was a very artful. He
35:09was a great man. Very great man. So, at
35:11some point, they can't get on terms with
35:13the British.
35:15And so they send him over there because
35:17this is a guy who can make a deal. And
35:20he gets over there and he meets
35:21Grenville and uh Grenville says, "You
35:25are the children and we are the mother
35:28country and you must do what we say and
35:31and uh Franklin writes back to the
35:34Continental Congress, there's going to
35:36be a war." Yeah.
35:38So we just but the the thing is that
35:42that took time to come to a head and
35:45just think of the particular problem
35:47they had. It's exactly the problem of
35:49the May Mayflower Compact, right?
35:51Because now there's a bunch of people on
35:54a ship and they're they don't know
35:57they're about to land. They don't know
35:59anything about the land. They think
36:00they'll all be dead soon as many of them
36:02were. And so there's nobody in charge,
36:06right? the Dukes and the Earls are all
36:08still back in England.
36:10And so they write up a thing where
36:13everybody agreed, right? So that's how
36:17we invented our first representative
36:19institutions.
36:21And then uh the king is saying, "You
36:26can't do that." And there begins a
36:28correspondence in a pamphlet war. You
36:31can tell that there's going to be
36:33fighting. The first fighting is April
36:3619th, 250 years ago next week at
36:40Lexington Concord. Really great,
36:42wonderful story. And uh uh
36:47so so but you can tell in 1774 because
36:52in 1774 Thomas Jefferson started writing
36:56and he had a gift. You know, he was very
37:00powerful. And so here's the last the
37:03beginning of the last paragraph of his
37:061774 thing. A summary view of the rights
37:09of British North America.
37:12He's concluding. It's a long thing. Six.
37:18Let those futter who fear sire. It is
37:23not an American art. Just say say that
37:27again because it's hard to hear you. Let
37:29those fletter who fear sire. It is not
37:33an American art.
37:36Your ministers must realize that they
37:39are servants. Yeah. He writes after the
37:42strongest man on earth. Yeah. Now
37:44they're getting ready to start shooting
37:45each other. Say yeah. And and but they
37:48have to but remember everything you do
37:49in your life, everything my
37:51grandchildren do in their lives, they're
37:54not like the dogs.
37:56They have to think up a reason because
37:59they have a choice. And so now this is
38:02the source of our law, the sovereign of
38:05our nation. And we're going to tell him
38:08no, we need a principle according to
38:12which to do it. The laws of nature and
38:15of nature's god. A law that applies to
38:18the king of England and to us. See? And
38:22that that was necessary. See, and
38:25remember it's it's not it's it it
38:29requires their obedience. The
38:33revolutionaries, they too have to obey
38:36this, which is the reason the revolution
38:39was they restrained. They stumbled on
38:42something. I mean, it's fascinating.
38:44History is fascinating because you think
38:46why didn't happen before or why did it
38:49ever happen? But it happened 250 um
38:54years ago roughly that
38:57a a group of these geniuses stumble on
39:00these universal ideas and they do. Uh
39:03it's it's amazing really that
39:06circumstances lead them to stumble on
39:09universal truths and to create
39:13what we can describe as self-government,
39:15something that had never existed in the
39:16history of the world. And of course um
39:21many of us would assume that God's hand
39:23is in this. This is not just an
39:25interesting technological advance. It's
39:28the discovery of something eternal
39:31um or the discovery of a way that we can
39:34uh partake of the turnal eternal in how
39:37we govern ourselves. It's a such an
39:39amazing moment in history. And as I'm as
39:43I was reading your book, it struck me, I
39:46mean, it struck me before, but it struck
39:47me particularly uh in reading your book
39:50that it's hard for us who believe uh in
39:55nature's God um and who rever these
39:59documents not to feel that God's hand is
40:04in them because it it it's not a
40:06technological advance there. there's
40:08something extraordinary and the way that
40:10you link the two documents. Um,
40:14so God is named four times in the
40:16Declaration of Independence. Uh,
40:19and there's a theology and a political
40:23uh, philosophy in and it's very
40:27systematic by the way. It's 1320 words.
40:30You should memorize it. It's really
40:32great. But he first appears as the maker
40:35of the laws of nature and nature's god.
40:38He's the legislature.
40:40He second appears as the creator.
40:44Uh that's like a founder.
40:46Then he appears as divine providence.
40:50That's the executive branch. And then he
40:53appears as the supreme judge of the
40:56world. And the lesson is that only in
41:00the hands of God would you put all those
41:03powers together.
41:05You see now in the So first of all
41:09that's
41:10literally divine right and they looked
41:15to the heavens for the justification and
41:19for their protection divine providence
41:21for the rectitude of our intentions.
41:24See there's there's grand humility in
41:27that. We have to say that's it's lovely.
41:29You know, it's just it is it's very and
41:31and remember the first line is simply
41:34universal. The last line is the most
41:38particular thing because they're in, you
41:42know, a room
41:44about this size and the room still
41:46exists. The Constitution United States
41:49was also written in that room, same
41:51room, right? and they're in there
41:53together and they end and see they know
41:58that there are warrants out for their
42:01arrest and if they're caught they will
42:04be arrested by soldiers not policemen
42:06and they'll be taken to England you see
42:10and so at the end
42:13we mutually pledge to each other
42:20George Washington promises Thomas
42:22Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson promises
42:25unto death our fortunes, our lives, and
42:28our sacred honor. So this beautiful
42:33eternal cosmic thing comes to rest in
42:37the commitments of certain people who
42:40stake their lives on it.
42:42You know, one of the Christian doctrines
42:44is God works through us, right? That's
42:47they're assuming that station, right?
42:50And so that's it is sublime. Now the
42:54interesting thing about this connection
42:56thing you know between the declaration
42:58and the constitution
43:00is that you know first of all
43:03some of the same people wrote both
43:06uh several documents the Virginia
43:08Declaration of Right the Massachusetts
43:09Bill of Rights were written at about the
43:11same time and those documents happen to
43:13do the work both of the Constitution
43:15United States and the Declaration of
43:16Independence and they're in integrity
43:18but then in the middle of the
43:19Declaration of Independence
43:22uh because the first part is universal
43:23And the last part's particular and
43:26fierce and in the middle it's the bad
43:29stuff the king did you know and he's a
43:32dirty dog you know let facts be you know
43:35prudence and date will dictate that
43:38governments long established will not be
43:40changed for light and transient causes
43:44then he says uh uh but when they design
43:50paraphrase now uh events is a design to
43:53reduce us to absolute despatism. It is
43:56their right and it is their duty to
43:59throw off the government and then is
44:00this right? Let facts be submitted to a
44:04candid world. And then the list of the
44:07bad stuff the king did that's in the
44:08middle. And what are the things? All you
44:11got to do is it's like hold a mirror up
44:14to it because all that stuff that the
44:17king did that's wrong.
44:21Those are things that are forbidden by
44:23the Constitution of the United States.
44:25He had interfered with this legislature.
44:28That's a violation of separation of
44:30powers. He had he had interfered with
44:32the courts. That's another. He had uh
44:37refused his ascent to laws most
44:40wholesome and necessary for the public
44:42good.
44:44In other words, government's not an
44:45alien force. He had uh interfered with
44:50elections which means he interfered with
44:53the consent of the government.
44:56And those things all put them all
44:58together and they supply the structure
45:01of the Constitution of the United
45:02States. In other words, we're not going
45:05to do that. We're not going to set up a
45:07government where they can do that.
45:08They're going to behave differently.
45:10Right? And that means that the
45:13Constitution is actually in the
45:15Declaration of Independence.
45:17And and it it to see that it helps if
45:21you
45:23uh what if you
45:26you know every everybody should read
45:28Aristotle please we uh Plato's good too.
45:31Uh but but it's what's cool about
45:35classics is they're first,
45:39right? And that means they're and this
45:41is one of the things you have to learn
45:43in life. And I I happen to be in a very
45:46fortunate line of work because I get a
45:49bunch of 18 to 21 year olds and we get
45:51to beat the crap out of them and and we
45:54and we get to and we get to encourage
45:56them
45:58not to think about opinions about
46:01things.
46:03You should look at the thing. Your
46:06opinion about the thing should be
46:07governed by the thing.
46:10You know, I I had a kid once say to me,
46:12"If I come to Hillsdale, will you
46:14respect my opinion?" And I said, "No, we
46:16don't give a crap about that."
46:19And and everybody laughed at him. And I
46:21said, "Do you respect mine?" And he
46:24said, "Yes." And I said, "You don't know
46:25what it is."
46:27And and so shouldn't you learn to see
46:31things as they are? And you know to
46:34understand the magic and the
46:36unprecedented nature of the decor
46:38independence and the constitution you
46:40have to know something about other
46:41things like it and then you can see how
46:44different they are. And that's a um I I
46:48want to ask the question and it's a good
46:49place for me to ask it. Um what we're
46:52talking about when we talk about the
46:54declaration and the constitution
46:57ultimately is
47:00freedom self-government on the founders
47:02model a unique thing in the history of
47:04the world uh and a thing that has been
47:07challenged by progressives they don't as
47:10I think I said earlier they don't really
47:14openly explicitly say we don't believe
47:16in truth or we don't believe in liberty
47:18because that would be politically
47:21troubling maybe. So they well they do
47:23say that sometimes well sometimes but
47:27they are nonetheless
47:30uh just as King George was doing they're
47:34attacking these fundamental ideas the
47:37idea that we can govern ourselves the
47:39idea that there's this ide concept of of
47:42of liberty of of self-government
47:45um they are at war with that and that to
47:49me is what's so astonishing that when
47:50you talk about the progressives
47:51throughout the book the their war on uh
47:55these two documents or on the ideas that
47:57are uh common to the documents
48:01they're at war with America of of wellto
48:04and remember any it it's sort of one of
48:09the truths that I believe and it's in
48:12the classics it's in CS Lewis too he
48:14writes this very beautifully there's
48:17never a sustained opinion that grows
48:21powerful that doesn't have some claim of
48:24a good behind it.
48:26And so what the progressive style was,
48:29we've got modern science,
48:32uh we've learned so much, we can perfect
48:37the society.
48:39See, in other words, they hoped for
48:44better
48:45than has ever been known. They thought
48:48you could put it all right. You see, and
48:51it's our power that has grown that makes
48:54that possible. Now, there is a
48:56contradiction in it. But first,
48:59understand the charm of that. Uh like a
49:02a very important progressive tract
49:05uh was a book by Upton Sinclair called
49:08The Jungle. Uh Winston Churchill
49:11actually wrote a review of the book, you
49:13know, from England. Uh but what it
49:18describes is the meat packing industry
49:21uh in Chicago and the squalor of the
49:23people who worked in it.
49:26Uh and so there's a lot of sympathy for
49:29that. We got to fix that. We got people
49:32are being worked to death. Little kids
49:34are going to work in factories. And and
49:36the thing is uh
49:41so
49:43some of those things by the way didn't
49:44need to be fixed have been some of them
49:47some of them not yet. Um, but here's the
49:52problem in the thing because remember
49:54our challenge today, one of the reasons
49:57it's a good idea to read a lot of
50:00history is because history is complete
50:04whereas the stuff going on today is
50:06swirling around all over the place and
50:08and so you don't know, you know, like I
50:11think, you know, I have my political
50:14views and they're widely known, but Um
50:19uh and you know I know the president and
50:22have to do with him in various ways and
50:25uh
50:27I think what he's trying to do is
50:29incredibly hard and I hope he can do it
50:33but he hasn't done it yet. And am I
50:36right about that? You know that's the
50:38kind of thing a person could make a
50:39mistake about.
50:41But I do do believe that this is not a
50:43mistake. I believe that the trouble with
50:46the progressives
50:49is that they claim the power to put
50:52everything right while abandoning the
50:56two standards that can establish what is
50:59right. One of them nature and the other
51:03God.
51:05And therefore, if you get more power and
51:08yet the only thing that remains to
51:10decide how to use it is will
51:14it can become very dangerous
51:17and I think it has done and so that's
51:20the thing right and and the point the
51:24point like I I believe you know I don't
51:28if if you're if you study a lot in your
51:31life and you have good teachers which I
51:35have had.
51:37Uh you learn to be careful about
51:39ascribing motives to people because you
51:42can really only know what they are by
51:44what they say and you compare what they
51:46say with what they do and you try to
51:47study it up and even what they say might
51:50not be true and even they so anyway the
51:52point is a little bit hard to say why
51:53did but I'm about to proclaim why Joseph
51:57Ellis wrote that book. Um,
52:00I think the reason is that he was in a
52:03world where the Constitution was out of
52:05fashion because it's clunky and
52:08methodical and counterpoise and balance
52:10and checks and balances and we need to
52:13get on in life. We got to fix a bunch of
52:16stuff. I'm sorry. Who who wrote the
52:17book? Joseph Ellis. That guy that right
52:20sure something about that guy and that
52:22guy's a famous historian and uh he's
52:25still around. Uh
52:28so if he wants to debate, I'm here. But
52:31uh but in other words, I think Joseph
52:34Ellis and I think Woodro Wilson. Uh I
52:38think you know the main figures are
52:41Woodro, they're all in our Constitution
52:43reader at Hillsdale College, by the way.
52:44Write me and I'll send you a copy. Every
52:46kid at Hills got to read it all. The
52:48first phase of American history is the
52:50revolution. And the second phase is the
52:52slavery crisis. And the third phase is
52:55the progressive era. And we're still in
52:57that in its throws, I think. And and you
53:01know, there are other things that
53:02happened in American history, but those
53:03are the three big movements in my
53:04opinion. And I think the third one's
53:07coming to a culmination for good or ill
53:10soon.
53:12Uh I think we live in a house divided
53:14today. Cannot stand. Got to become one
53:17thing or or the other. But I think I
53:21think that the the energy
53:24behind progressivism
53:27is the ability is the wish to get
53:31everything out of the way that impedes
53:34our making everything better. And we've
53:37got new sources of power now and we can
53:41do it.
53:43And the uh I can I can make a direct
53:46comparison if you want me to. Let me do
53:48it.
53:49Um there's a there's a man who's
53:51important in the progressives named
53:52James Landis. He's a lawyer close to
53:56Franklin Roosevelt.
53:57And he writes that at the new
54:00administrative state, which they, by the
54:02way, used to just proclaim out loud.
54:04Now, people are kind of shy talking
54:06about bureaucracy and the administrative
54:07state because it's rather unpopular.
54:10But they were just, you know, in the new
54:11administrative state, you won't have to
54:14worry about separation of powers because
54:17if people have tenure in office and
54:21guaranteed salaries, they won't have any
54:24interest that violates the public
54:26interest.
54:28Now, see, isn't that funny?
54:30But he wrote that in the 1930s as a
54:36powerful political argument
54:39and people believed it. But you can
54:43uh
54:45in the 51st Federalist, which in my
54:47federalist papers, which in my opinion
54:48is the greatest of them, James Madison
54:51writes uh what is government with the
54:54profoundest of all reflections on human
54:55nature? If men were angels, no
54:58government would be needed. If angels
55:00were to govern men, neither internal nor
55:03external controls on the government
55:05would be necessary. So just compare
55:07those two quotes. Which one seems true,
55:11you know, and that's a direct
55:16there's a difference there, right? And
55:18by the way, before you can decide which
55:21of two things you prefer, the first
55:25thing you have to do is distinguish
55:26them.
55:27And and so that's why it's so important
55:29to understand. And then you can choose,
55:33right? And and you know, my own view is,
55:36you know, I I've been saying this for 25
55:38years.
55:40Uh the only thing that can save us now
55:43is the American people.
55:47And because if the if there are a lot of
55:50elite people as I believe there are who
55:53have been controlling things
55:56uh then the solution would just by logic
55:59would have to be in the people ordinary
56:01people. That's why at Hillsdale College
56:04it's very hard to get into Hillsdale
56:05College. It's very elite. It's very
56:07mean. We torture the hell out of the
56:09students and it's just a few. It has to
56:12be just a few. But we have four and a
56:15half million online students and we do
56:18that for free.
56:20Uh and you know it's as I like to say we
56:23charge tuition on the the students and
56:26we lose our shirts on it. We give away
56:28online courses and make a killing.
56:30That's isn't that odd? Uh those of you
56:32who've taken this and send us some
56:34dough. Thanks. But you don't have to
56:35send the dough if you don't want to. Uh
56:38so
56:40uh it's in the people right and under
56:43the principles of the declaration of
56:44independence
56:46that's where the decision should be.
56:50They have a right and so I uh Churchill
56:56was a democrat with little d right. He
56:58believed in the rule of the people and
57:01and uh he always said of America, you
57:04can trust them to do the right thing
57:07after they've tried everything else.
57:12We uh which we're just about out of
57:16time. Uh I don't want to let you go
57:18before I ask you um to offer your views
57:23on the the the prospects before us. We
57:26we are now I always say in the third
57:28existential crisis of our history. Uh
57:32sounds like you agree with me. Um it it
57:36seems to me that over uh roughly the
57:40last century uh the progressives have
57:45succeeded in undermining
57:47uh the founders vision significantly and
57:50have created uh a
57:53ultimately um tyrannous fourth branch of
57:57government. A branch of government that
57:59uh does not answer to we the people. Um
58:03what is your sense of our actually being
58:06able to take the country back and to
58:10bring us back to the principles uh
58:14with which we began in the two documents
58:17you write about in the book? Well uh you
58:20know I'm a citizen of the United States
58:24and a student of Winston Churchill for
58:2550 years. Of course we're going to win.
58:30But what you learn from him is it'll be
58:32hell. Uh if you look at it more
58:36analytically,
58:38u
58:42if not before when the last trump sound
58:44of the United States of America will
58:46fall.
58:48So we're not guaranteed an eternity on
58:50this earth and no human thing has ever
58:53lasted in perpetuity.
58:56uh if if for it to die though
59:03we have to stop
59:05our loyalty to it must die. And so my
59:09own view, you know, first of all, uh, a
59:13teacher
59:15to a hammer everything looks like a nail
59:18to to a teacher everything looks like a
59:20student, right? So I think that the uh,
59:25see I I I I think this I think this is
59:28an absolute truth
59:31and and I'm I'm shy about saying that. I
59:35don't think absolute truth is a thing
59:36you believe in because it's hard to
59:38find, right? You got to look for it. But
59:41I think this is one.
59:43I think after the birth of Jesus Christ,
59:47who's uh and again, I'm not, you know,
59:51you don't have to be a Christian to see
59:52this.
59:54Uh Jesus does two things that are
59:58staggeringly
1:00:00odd in combination.
1:00:03He claims to be the savior of every
1:00:05human being and the maker of every human
1:00:07being and everything and the only route
1:00:09to heaven. And then he says, "My kingdom
1:00:13is not of this world."
1:00:16The first great
1:00:18prophet
1:00:20not to found a kingdom. He was actually
1:00:23one of the reasons he was killed.
1:00:26So a deduction follows from that. And
1:00:29the founders of America understood that
1:00:31deduction
1:00:33that now you're going to still have to
1:00:35have governments,
1:00:38but they're not directly Christ
1:00:41government.
1:00:42And therefore, freedom of religion is
1:00:46necessary.
1:00:47You see,
1:00:49you you have to have that now because of
1:00:52Jesus.
1:00:54and and any government that interferes
1:00:57with the service of any human who wants
1:01:01to give it to the eternal God, the
1:01:03creator of all and the only road to
1:01:05salvation.
1:01:07It's rank
1:01:09injustice to interfere with that. That's
1:01:12why the first chief executive outside
1:01:14Israel to write a letter to some Jews
1:01:18addressing them as equal citizens is
1:01:20George Washington, president of the
1:01:22United States. He writes to the Hebrew
1:01:25congregation in Newport, Rhode Island. I
1:01:27actually know the famous rabbi who runs
1:01:29that congregation today. It's moved to
1:01:31Manhattan.
1:01:33Uh it is now no more writes Washington
1:01:36to them that we speak of religious
1:01:39toleration as if it were by the
1:01:41indulgence of some that others enjoy
1:01:43their inherent natural rights.
1:01:46We may congratulate ourselves upon a
1:01:50wider policy which gives to bigotry no
1:01:52sanction to persecution no assistance.
1:01:56May the children of the stock of Abraham
1:02:00no peace each free to worship beneath
1:02:03his own vine and fig tree there being
1:02:06none to make him afraid.
1:02:10Now I think that is objectively true and
1:02:14objectively beautiful and that is the
1:02:17claim of America and if we believe that
1:02:21we can save it.
1:02:32join me uh in
1:02:36promising yourself that you'll read this
1:02:38book which is shorter than it looks and
1:02:40is in case I didn't say magnificent and
1:02:43extremely important. Um and also in
1:02:46thanking Dr. Larry on for joining us
1:02:49this evening.
1:02:55If you think these conversations are
1:02:57valuable, would you do us a favor and
1:03:00please like this video and subscribe to
1:03:02this channel? When you do that, you help
1:03:04us get these conversations out to a
1:03:07wider audience by telling YouTube uh
1:03:09that people are interested in this.
1:03:11Also, you can go to socratesthecity.com,
1:03:14sign up for our newsletter, uh and you
1:03:16can check back every week. There's new
1:03:18stuff here every week. Thank you for
1:03:20tuning in.

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