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The Michaela School | Katharine Birbalsingh — Transcript

by Jordan B Peterson · 2,920 words · 437 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00I want to tell everybody watching and
0:01listening the Michaela School is not a
0:04selective school and that means anybody
0:07can go there and see usually schools
0:10perform well if they hyper select their
0:12students because it's easier to teach
0:14let's say kids that have been screened
0:17for IQ and conscientiousness but you
0:19take everybody and yet
0:22your students hyper perform on their
0:24examinations and so so explain that a
0:28little more detail because that's
0:30that that really pulls the rug out from
0:32underneath your detractors except the
0:35ones who don't believe in objective
0:36merit.
0:37Yeah, I mean it's interesting cuz you
0:39hear strict and of course with lots with
0:41lots of people people think tyrannical
0:43and unhappiness and so on. I always say
0:45that strict is immersed in love and when
0:48you're strict with with children it
0:50means you love them enough to keep your
0:51standards high for them and I would say
0:53that most right teachers and parents
0:56nowadays want to be friends with
0:57children and they don't know that their
1:01duty is to have children rise up and
1:04meet them where they are and to
1:06demonstrate to them over and over again
1:09what virtuous behavior is so that they
1:12too can learn to be virtuous and that
1:15when grandma's looking a bit sad you say
1:18to the boy go and get her bring her a
1:20cup of tea. You explain that that is
1:23what kindness is and every little moment
1:25of kindness in the particular the child
1:28is able to do over and over again.
1:30There's no point in telling children be
1:32kind. I mean you can tell them but they
1:34won't understand what that means. They
1:36need to see examples and non-examples so
1:38the cup of tea is an example but then
1:40their brother hits them because he wants
1:42to take the toy and that's an example of
1:44unkindness and you would say well that
1:45was unkind and this is kind over and
1:48over and over again and over years I
1:51know you're interested in evolutionary
1:52psychology. This is what we are as
1:54humans. You know other animals within a
1:57few weeks or a few months in the in the
1:59jungle, they get sorted enough they go.
2:02Whereas human beings take many, many
2:03years to be able to survive on their own
2:06without their parents. And the role of
2:08the parents and the role of the teacher
2:10should be to show them the particular
2:12over and over again, whether that's
2:14about gratitude or about duty or about
2:16kindness and so on. And then eventually
2:20they can move that to the abstract and
2:22they'll understand what kindness is
2:24having seen the particular of examples
2:26and non-examples so many times. But
2:29sadly, I think that people generally
2:31don't understand that about children.
2:33And so for instance, I know I've often
2:36said to you, "When you came to the
2:37school, you know, I said to you, 'You
2:39never talk about schools.'" And
2:41and you said, "Oh, it's true. I don't
2:42really talk about schools." And I said,
2:44"Yeah, well, you should talk about
2:45schools cuz they're the most important
2:46institutions in any country."
2:48Yes.
2:48Because children are the future. And so
2:50when all of you guys, and when I say
2:52guys, I mean there are women, too, like
2:53Bari Weiss or Mickey Kelli or John
2:56McWhorter or Glenn Loury and all these
2:57people who I have huge admiration for,
2:59huge admiration for all of you.
3:01Nobody ever talks about schools. Nobody
3:03ever talks about the importance of our
3:05education system. And then what you will
3:06do is you talk about what's going on in
3:08the universities and you say, "Oh my
3:10goodness, how come these young people
3:11think as they do? And how come we've got
3:14all of these marches and so on and so
3:15forth, things that are happening?" And
3:16we think, "How come they're not thinking
3:18about stuff in the way you know, why
3:20don't they have Why haven't they
3:21developed critical thinking?"
3:22And this is where I sort of have a bit
3:24of a bugbear with you and I want to say
3:26to you, you know, I want to explain why
3:28I think not just you.
3:30All these people I have huge admiration
3:32for, Jonathan Haidt, Abigail Shrier. I
3:34read all of your stuff and I love it.
3:36But when it comes to children, I think
3:37you're all wrong. Elon Musk, the other
3:40day I saw him, you know, on some video
3:42he was talking about how to teach
3:44children and he's wrong. You're all
3:46wrong and let me explain why.
3:48The fact is you're all wondering why it
3:51is these students at university don't
3:54think in a critical manner. And then
3:56what you will say is what we need to do
3:58is teach them how to think, not what to
4:00think. But you're wrong. We need to
4:03teach them what to think, okay? If as
4:07because what's currently happening is we
4:09are teaching them how to think. And what
4:10does that mean? In fact, I should ask
4:12you when when you all say things like
4:14that, "We teach them how to think." What
4:16do you mean?
4:17Well,
4:18we mean with this Peterson Academy that
4:21I'm putting forward is that we don't
4:23want a university, and I'm speaking
4:26specifically of universities,
4:28to be an ideological propaganda factory.
4:31And so really it's a dig at the radical
4:33left.
4:34Okay.
4:34And so and then I and and I would also
4:37say
4:39I'll say two things in response to the
4:40other things you said.
4:42Um
4:43I have talked privately with any number
4:46of government officials, especially on
4:48the Republican side, about the absolute
4:50catastrophe that's unfolding in the
4:52K-through-12 system.
4:54And one of my dreams, and you can tell
4:56me what you think about this, is that I
4:58think that the right to teacher
5:00certification should be taken away from
5:02the faculties of education.
5:04Okay.
5:05Because I think they have done a job
5:06that's so abysmal that it it's almost
5:08indescribable. And I've talked to plenty
5:10of Republican governors about this, and
5:13it's one of my lifelong ambitions.
5:15Yes, no, I agree. We we'll 100% agree on
5:17that. Teacher training institutions are
5:19a disaster. But okay, and it's really
5:21interesting what you said. You don't
5:23want this ideology just pumped through
5:25kids. And I 100% agree.
5:26universities. That's not the same as
5:28K-through-12.
5:30You know, I also agree with your
5:32approach from the particular upward with
5:34regards to children.
5:35I know.
5:35So that's crucial.
5:36I know. It's just that when you all talk
5:39about this business of teaching them how
5:41to think, what that looks like in a
5:44classroom in a high school is that okay,
5:47so what that is is is the standard
5:50discussion between knowledge and skills.
5:52Should we teach them knowledge or should
5:53we teach them skills? How to think is a
5:56skill and it can only be done within a
6:00particular domain. So
6:02I don't know how to think about cars,
6:04okay? You told me you put a car in front
6:06of me and said create a different kind
6:08of car Catherine, be creative, think
6:09outside the box. I wouldn't know what to
6:11do cuz I don't know anything about cars.
6:13But if you tell me to turn education on
6:15its head, I've done exactly that. I've
6:17been very radical. I've thought outside
6:19the box and I've done things very
6:20differently. Why? Because I know
6:22education inside out. The only way you
6:25can think in a creative manner or think
6:27outside the box and have independent
6:29thoughts about anything is to know it
6:32really well. And so that means children
6:34at school level need to be taught loads
6:38of knowledge. So when you all say things
6:41like we need to teach them how to think,
6:43I disagree with you.
6:45When I say we need to teach them what to
6:46think, what I mean by that is we need to
6:49give them knowledge
6:51about the World Wars, about slavery,
6:53about colonialism, about all of these
6:56ideas that if they don't have historical
6:59knowledge, they're unable to make
7:02a judgment that is well informed and
7:06that isn't just going to go down an
7:07ideological route. You know, all
7:09children are communists, okay? They're
7:11all communists. When you talk talk to
7:12them, they're all communists because
7:14when they hear about communism, they go,
7:15"You mean everybody is going to have
7:17equality? You mean everybody's we're
7:20going to share? And then
7:22you know,
7:23everybody poor and rich doesn't happen
7:25anymore. Everybody's just the same.
7:27That's lovely." And the reason why
7:28children are all communists is because
7:31they're naive, they're vulnerable, and
7:33they it sounds nice to them and so
7:36that's what they go for. They don't have
7:38enough knowledge or enough wisdom to be
7:40able to make correct decisions. That's
7:43why for instance we ban alcohol, we ban
7:45cigarettes.
7:47I believe we should ban smartphones. We
7:49ban sex, we ban marriage, we ban
7:51driving. There are all kinds of things
7:53that we ban from children. And the thing
7:55about the libertarian right, while I
7:57myself believe in freedom and I believe
8:00in freedom of speech and all of that,
8:02when it comes to children, I don't
8:03believe in any of it. I believe that
8:06children need their freedoms restricted
8:09so that later in life they can be truly
8:11free.
8:12And when I say their freedoms need to be
8:14restricted, that doesn't mean that
8:15they're unhappy. You saw at my school
8:17just how happy they were.
8:18me let me ask you a clarifying question.
8:20Yeah.
8:22Do you mean that their freedoms should
8:24be restricted or do you mean that the
8:27domain within which they have freedom
8:29should be restricted?
8:31Well, no. I I would say both.
8:33are different, right? Because the one
8:35tilts more to in some sense conceptually
8:38towards control. See, let let me give
8:41you an example. You tell me what you
8:42think about this. This is a very
8:43concrete example, so it brings it down
8:45to earth. So imagine you have a
8:47four-year-old child and he has a closet
8:49full of clothes, like 40 outfits to wear
8:53and they're all hanging on a um on
8:55hangers. And maybe he's a little hungry
8:58and a little tired and you open up the
9:00closet and you say, "What of which of
9:02those outfits do you want to wear?" And
9:04he has a meltdown. Okay, and so imagine
9:07that instead you take three of those
9:09items of clothing off the
9:12hangers and you put them on the bed and
9:13you say, "Which of those three pieces of
9:16clothing would you like to wear?" And
9:18then he can point to one with no
9:19problem. It's like a So there's a
9:22consumer choice literature for example
9:24that shows people you that if you have
9:26four shampoos to choose from on the
9:29shelf and you pick one, you're happier
9:31with your purchase than you are if you
9:33have 200 on the shelf to pick from
9:35because you drown in complexity and
9:38you've probably made the wrong choice.
9:40So, with children, my sense is that, you
9:43know, they need that play that enables
9:46them to
9:47decide, but
9:50adults are supposed to be wise enough so
9:52that the domain of choice that's
9:54presented to them is commensurate with
9:55their actual
9:57emotional and cognitive ability. So,
9:59well, I'm wondering what you think of
10:00that formulation.
10:02Yeah, I don't think the child the
10:034-year-old should be choosing at all.
10:05I don't. I think you're in a rush, you
10:07need to get him to school, get him in
10:08his clothes, and
10:09Well, yes, there's that.
10:10Right? And
10:11Yeah, there's times when that's the
10:13case.
10:13I'm in the supermarket and I'm watching
10:15parents say, "Darling, what would you
10:17like from the freezer to eat?" And I'm
10:20looking at them thinking, "Why are you
10:21asking them? Just take what you want,
10:23put it in the basket, and go. You've got
10:25a life, you know?" Like these children
10:27who are the center of the world, we need
10:29to ask them what they think about
10:30everything. We have to ask them, "What
10:32would you like to eat?" Put the spinach
10:33and broccoli in front of them and tell
10:34them to eat it. And that's what we do at
10:36Michaela. They have one choice They
10:38don't have any choice at lunch. They all
10:40eat the same thing. And we call it
10:42family lunch, and you had lunch with the
10:43children. Why? We Why do we call it
10:45family lunch? Cuz it's like family
10:47dinner. And why is What What used to
10:49happen at family dinner? I have to say,
10:50I don't think this happens anymore in
10:51many households cuz everybody's on their
10:53phone or their iPad, and they take their
10:55plate of food and they go and sit in
10:56their bedroom. But what should be
10:57happening is that you sit around a
10:59table, and that you're being you all
11:01serve out the food, and you're all
11:03eating from one pot of food. And if you
11:05don't like it very much, well, you suck
11:07it up because that's what it is to be a
11:09child, okay? And you learn how to eat
11:11different foods because your parents
11:13don't let you to get away with this idea
11:15of I'm a free human being and it's
11:17against my human rights, and I should be
11:18able to eat what I want. No, you
11:20shouldn't be able to eat what you want,
11:21you're a child. Now, look, that's why
11:23people call me strict, but it's because
11:25I love them that I think we should be
11:27doing this. Because by doing that, we
11:28teach them how to become adults.
11:33And you talk about exactly. You say how
11:36you don't want children. You shouldn't
11:37bring up children who you're going to
11:39dislike. Well, the more choices and the
11:41more freedom you give them in that
11:43sense, the more you're going to dislike
11:45them as adults. I mean, the fact is you
11:47cannot be friends with your children
11:50when they're children and be friends
11:52with them when they're adults. You have
11:53to choose. And you should not be friends
11:55with them when they're children cuz
11:56otherwise you're not going to be you're
11:58not going to like them when they're
11:58adults. You are in a position of
12:01authority and you should be molding your
12:04child and helping him with his moral
12:06formation and giving him knowledge and
12:09the school should be doing both as well,
12:10both moral formation and giving him
12:13knowledge. And where I worry about the
12:15libertarian right is the the the
12:17freedoms that they enjoy amongst adults,
12:20they then impose that on children or
12:22they don't realize that that's what
12:24they're doing. And then they think, "Oh
12:26my goodness, but why is it all these
12:28students at university are behaving the
12:30way that they do?" It's because the
12:32schools have not taught them what to
12:34think. I When I say what to think,
12:36giving them the facts about the various
12:38world the world wars, giving them the
12:40facts about the history of their
12:42country, making them feel as if they
12:45belong in their country and that their
12:47history belongs to them, that the
12:49geography of their country is taught to
12:51them. If on the other hand the school is
12:54convinced that actually what they need
12:56to do is um to teach them how to think,
13:00and then nobody can agree on what that
13:02looks like because it's a skill and
13:05outside of its domain of knowledge, it
13:07cannot be taught independently. It's
13:09impossible. All you can do is give
13:12children knowledge. You see, what those
13:14skills are is actually bits of
13:16knowledge. And when you give them lots
13:18of bits of knowledge about say the
13:19Second World War, they're then be able
13:22to piece together what they think of it.
13:24Now, the problem we've got nowadays is
13:26that the schools are teaching them with
13:29a particular ideology in mind. So, in
13:32Britain for instance, I I I see very
13:34much that history lessons in schools,
13:37they will be teaching about how the
13:38British were really racist and how
13:41the Indian soldiers who were fighting
13:44for Britain were treated very badly. And
13:46you know what? I'm not even saying that
13:48isn't true. But when it comes to
13:50secondary school children who might have
13:52one or two lessons a week in history and
13:54they're only going to have it for a few
13:56years, wouldn't it be it shouldn't the
13:59focus be
14:00them knowing 1914 and 1918? Shouldn't
14:04the focus be them knowing about Hitler
14:07in the Second World War? I mean like
14:09like there there there are certain facts
14:11that the children they've never heard of
14:12the Battle of the Somme. They've never
14:14heard of um uh the details of of the
14:18various key battles in the First World
14:20War and the Second World War. And
14:22they've never heard of them because
14:23they're too busy being taught full
14:25stories that are ideological which will
14:27convince them that the British for
14:28instance are racist or convince them
14:31that there were various important female
14:32characters in our historical history and
14:35that that's what that's what matters.
14:37And of course Elizabeth I, absolutely.
14:39But there are there are other people
14:41that are brought forward as being very
14:43important when they're not so important
14:45but because they're taught through an
14:46ideological lens which is 2024 as
14:50opposed to
14:51teaching them the basics of their own
14:54history so that they can feel that they
14:56are British.

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