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The Man Who Owns 4% Of All Bitcoin: "I Made $15 Billion By Using ChatGPT!" | Michael Saylor — Transcript

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0:00I used AI to make $15 billion last year.
0:02>> You did?
0:03>> I did. Because the AI gave us a solution
0:06to the problem that no one had ever
0:07encountered before in the history of the
0:08world. And so my advice is don't try to
0:11outwork the robots. What you want to do
0:13is ask the AI to do something that's
0:16never been done before. And if you want
0:18to create these incredible success
0:20things, you want to locate the magic
0:23opportunity. I know this because I'm an
0:26technology entrepreneur. And we're
0:28[music] the biggest buyer of Bitcoin in
0:29the world. So what is my mission? I'm
0:31preaching the gospel of digital
0:33empowerment [music] in Bitcoin as
0:35digital money. And it's going to be the
0:36best long-term capital asset. And you
0:39can actually own something and someone
0:41more powerful than you can't take it
0:43away from you.
0:44>> What do you mean they can't take Bitcoin
0:46from you?
0:47>> So this is a stack of currency. You walk
0:50through an airport on this, they ask you
0:52if you have cash. They just take it. So
0:53cash in a physical form is a problem. So
0:56what do you do? You put it in the bank.
0:58So the bank then decides whether you get
1:00to keep it and whether you get it back.
1:02But I could move a million dollars of
1:03Bitcoin from here to anywhere, to
1:06London, to anywhere in cyberspace in a
1:08few seconds. So the last thing in the
1:10world you want to save is money.
1:12>> So what about this? Why not just put all
1:14of my money into gold?
1:15>> Well, gold is up 12% a year, but Bitcoin
1:19is up 33.
1:20>> What about the S&P 500?
1:21>> You're going to get double the
1:23performance from BTC that you would get
1:25from like the S&P index.
1:26>> So should I buy a house?
1:27>> I will tell you why you shouldn't buy a
1:29house.
1:29>> And then you sold a bit of Bitcoin
1:30recently after telling a lot of people
1:32sell a kidney if you must but keep the
1:34Bitcoin. So why did you sell the Bitcoin
1:35instead of your kidney?
1:36>> Because
1:38>> Michael, beyond just buying Bitcoin,
1:40[music]
1:40what is a good strategy to build and
1:43become wealthy in your view? And then
1:44>> [music]
1:44>> you have 10 rules for young adults
1:46building a strong foundation for their
1:47life and career. So let's go through
1:48these.
1:49>> So first,
1:53>> This is super interesting to me. My team
1:55gave me this report to show me how many
1:56of you that watch this show subscribe
1:57and some of you have told us according
1:59to this that you are unsubscribed from
2:01the channel randomly. So, favor to ask
2:03all of you, please could you check right
2:05now if you've hit the subscribe button
2:06if you are regular viewer of the show
2:07and you like what we do here. We're
2:09approaching quite a significant landmark
2:11on this show in terms of a subscriber
2:12number. So, if there was one simple free
2:15thing that you could do to help us, my
2:16team, everyone here to keep this show
2:18free, to keep it improving
2:20year-over-year and week-over-week, it is
2:22just to hit that subscribe button and to
2:23double-check if you've hit it. Anything
2:25I'll ever ask of you.
2:26Do we have a deal? If you do it, I'll
2:28tell you what I'll do. I'll make sure
2:30every single week, every single month we
2:32fight harder and harder and harder and
2:33harder to bring you the guests and
2:34conversations that you want to hear. I
2:36stayed true to that promise since the
2:37very beginning of The Diary of a CEO and
2:38I will not let you down. Please help us.
2:41Really appreciate it. Let's get on with
2:43the show.
2:45>> [music]
2:47>> Michael, because of your success as a
2:49technology entrepreneur, you are a
2:51multi-billionaire from my
2:53math and you're heavily focused on
2:56digital currencies at the moment,
2:57specifically Bitcoin. What else do we
2:59need to know about you in terms of what
3:01you've built and accomplished outside of
3:02that?
3:03>> I always wanted to make a technical
3:04contribution. So, that the early
3:07business was business intelligence. So,
3:09how do you extract intelligence from
3:11large raw data sources and that was what
3:14MicroStrategy did. We created a global
3:16business intelligence company. And
3:18[snorts] I think in 2020, when the COVID
3:21lockdowns took place and the world
3:22turned upside down, that was when I
3:25discovered my greatest idea and it
3:27wasn't even my idea, right? It was
3:29Satoshi's idea, but I discovered Bitcoin
3:32in 2020 and the company today is
3:36$60 billion, but we peaked about 125
3:39billion. So, we got somewhere between
3:41100 and 200 times bigger since we
3:44discovered Bitcoin.
3:45>> And when you speak to the general public
3:46now, when you do podcasts like this,
3:48what is the the essence of the message
3:50that you're aiming to communicate to
3:51them.
3:53>> Bitcoin is is digital empowerment,
3:56digital capital. We're living through
3:59the digital transformation
4:01of assets, and this is just as profound
4:06transformation as digital intelligence.
4:09The real profound breakthrough of
4:11Bitcoin is this idea
4:14that you can take economic energy,
4:17convert to digital form, and tightly
4:19bind it to the person, the family, the
4:22company,
4:23or the country. We can talk about how we
4:25all hate countries, but you know, the
4:27history of the world is all the weak
4:29countries getting smashed by all the big
4:31countries. So, if what you're interested
4:34in in is empowerment and fairness and
4:37equity for the small company, the small
4:41family, the small person, the small
4:44country, the weak,
4:46how do you do it? Well, you basically
4:49encrypt the money, put it in cyberspace,
4:53protect it with a private key. So, like
4:56now you can actually own something and
4:58someone more powerful than you can't
5:00take it away from you.
5:02>> There's two types two types of money
5:04there in front of you. There's dollar
5:06bills, and then I've got a couple of
5:08Bitcoin on the table. What do you mean
5:10they can't take Bitcoin from you?
5:13>> Okay, so this is a stack of currency.
5:15You walk through an airport on this,
5:17they ask you if you have cash. If you
5:19do, they
5:21Cash in a in a physical form is a
5:23problem. So, what do you do? You put it
5:25in the bank.
5:27Well, the bank is is a counterparty. So,
5:29the bank then decides whether you get to
5:31keep it and whether you get it back. You
5:33go to the bank and you ask for it back,
5:34they might ask you why you asked for it
5:36back. If you ask for that much back,
5:39they file a form
5:41with the Treasury Department. You know,
5:42if you ask for too much money back too
5:44soon, right, someone comes knocking on
5:46your door. So, the challenge with this
5:48this is fiat currency
5:50and um you hold this at the pleasure of
5:53the nation-state. I mean, not just your
5:56nation-state. It's like every country on
5:57Earth gets to decide whether you get to
5:59spend this stuff, right? Which is
6:01interesting and if you want to actually
6:03transfer money to someone in another
6:05country, you need the permission of your
6:07bank, another bank, the central bank of
6:10their country, the corresponding bank.
6:12There might be seven different banks
6:13that have to decide whether the money
6:15gets from here to there. So, this is
6:17permissioned money, you know, that's uh
6:20managed by the state and with Bitcoin, I
6:23can take a million dollars. I can
6:25actually encrypt it in a chip in a
6:27physical coin, the Cascascius coin,
6:31and that's a million dollars. I slide it
6:33across and it's literally a bearer
6:35asset, you know, and so that's one
6:37manifestation of it. But, you could also
6:40put it into information form. I could
6:42transfer this to you just in the form of
6:45a private key that I wrote on a piece of
6:46paper and I gave to you.
6:49>> of letters you can give me.
6:50>> Yeah, or I could send you a message. I
6:52could send a text message. So, so, good
6:55luck getting a million dollars of gold
6:58from here to London if people don't want
7:00you to move it, but I could move a
7:03million dollars of Bitcoin from here to
7:05anywhere in a few seconds. The idea was
7:08I don't want to trust Apple or Google or
7:12Morgan Bank or a central bank or a
7:16government, right? And so, in the
7:18extreme case,
7:20you know, two people can meet in Africa
7:23and I can trade you some Bitcoin for
7:25your truck
7:26and I don't need the permission of seven
7:29banks and 16 governments and 32 other
7:33bureaucrats
7:35in order to buy that truck.
7:37>> What is it that most people, the average
7:39person, doesn't understand about the
7:41nature of money as it sat in their bank,
7:44as it relates to the debasement of it or
7:47the sort of inflation of it. Because
7:49most people think if they've got, you
7:50know, $10,000 in their bank and they
7:51keep it there, and maybe getting
7:53interest on it at 4% a year, they're
7:55going to be good.
7:56>> So, this is about $10,000, I guess. Um
8:001 acre of land in Miami Beach on the
8:03water cost $10,000 about 100 years ago.
8:09I know this cuz I have a house on the
8:10water and I have the the deed of sale,
8:13and it was about on 2 acres and it was
8:16$20,000. The entire house cost $100,000.
8:19And uh it's about $20,000 worth of land.
8:22Today, uh 1 acre of land on this the
8:25same acre
8:27on the water
8:28$10 million?
8:30Maybe $20 million. So, you know
8:34what happened here, right? It's the same
8:37dollar. It works out to be a thousand X
8:41increase in price. So, when land goes
8:44from $10,000 to $10 million, that means
8:47that the currency, the dollar, the money
8:51lost about 7% of its economic value
8:55every year for 100 years running.
8:58If you lose 7% a year
9:00you know, then you get cut in half,
9:04right? 10 times.
9:06Right? So, what do most people not know
9:08about about money? What they don't
9:10realize is that the best currency,
9:13money, my money being a medium of
9:15exchange, unit of account, store of
9:16value, the dollar, the best in the 20th
9:19century and the 21st century, the US
9:21dollar
9:22lost 7% of its value every year going
9:25for 100 years. That's the best it's ever
9:26going to get.
9:28It's not that good for everybody else.
9:29If you go to most other countries, they
9:32lose 14% of their value, and so they
9:34collapse in about 30 years. So
9:37what you have is a situation where if
9:40you store your wealth and currency and
9:43and the money of the society, the
9:46question really is just are you going to
9:48lose most of your money within 10 years?
9:50That's the weak currencies in in Africa.
9:52For example, most currencies in Africa
9:55you couldn't hold you your wealth even
9:57for 10 years, maybe 5 years.
9:59Or are you going to lose all your money
10:00in 30 years? Hyperinflation happened in
10:02Brazil, happened in Argentina, you know,
10:05that's Mexico, that's most places, and
10:08that's the status quo. The average fiat
10:11currency, you know, collapses in about
10:1329 years, I think.
10:15And then the best is if you happen to be
10:17a citizen of the greatest nation in the
10:19world and you win all the wars, you're
10:21just going to lose all your money in
10:24you know, half-life is 35 years. You're
10:26going to lose your money over the course
10:28of 100 years.
10:29>> So, should I buy a house?
10:31>> So, you get to the next interesting
10:33point which is that $100,000 in 19, uh,
10:3826
10:39in Miami Beach
10:41today would be worth $100,000, that
10:44house,
10:4550 to 100 million dollars.
10:47So, the house is better, right? In fact,
10:50if you're trying to preserve your
10:51wealth, you have to acquire scarce
10:53desirable property.
10:55So, your choice is do I buy real estate?
10:58Do I residential real estate? Do I buy
11:00commercial real estate? Do I buy a
11:02private company? Do I buy a public
11:04company? Like stocks? Do I buy
11:06collectibles?
11:07So, let me tell you why you shouldn't
11:08buy a house.
11:09Because, uh, there's a 2% property tax
11:12on houses in in Florida, which means
11:14that if you buy a house, you pay 2% of
11:16the value every year.
11:182%, you know, means that every 36 years
11:22you actually pay the cost of the house
11:24in tax to the government. Not a very
11:26good store of value because, uh, you're
11:29taking on a massive tax load
11:32and you're taking on a maintenance load.
11:34But having said it, it's still a better
11:36deal than just holding cash in a bank or
11:38holding cash in a safe. You know,
11:40commercial real estate looks a bit
11:41better, right? Because with commercial
11:43real estate, you can offset the tax, the
11:45insurance, and the maintenance cost with
11:49rents.
11:50So, what really works out with
11:51commercial real estate most of the time
11:53is you buy a million dollars commercial
11:56real estate, you have a bunch of fees,
11:58you charge rent. The rent offsets the
12:00maintenance cost. You don't really make
12:02any money on the rent, but the
12:04underlying million dollars appreciates
12:067% a year every year. And so, you
12:09actually can build wealth
12:11with commercial real estate if you can
12:12just cover the maintenance expenses.
12:15>> Most people are are told that the way to
12:18build wealth when they leave university
12:20and they get into the working world is
12:21to buy a house. So, most people that's
12:23what most most people do. They They get
12:25a job, a 9:00 to 5:00, they take the
12:27money they get from that, they go and
12:28get a mortgage, they buy a house, and
12:30they move in. That's kind of what we're
12:31all told implicitly. Is that a good
12:34strategy to build and become wealthy in
12:36your view?
12:38>> The only way that it's a good strategy
12:41is
12:43you're buying the house in a
12:46jurisdiction where the property taxes
12:49are manageable. Then yeah, you can you
12:51can generate some wealth. But if I flip
12:54that and you end up taking a 7% mortgage
12:57and you get massive tax and massive
12:59insurance expenses,
13:01then that same investment, you know,
13:03works out the other way and it it
13:05crushes you to death. So,
13:08a better idea generally is commercial
13:10real estate if you're if you actually
13:12have the, you know, the business acumen
13:15to to get into commercial real estate
13:17business cuz you can pass all the
13:19expenses through to your tenants.
13:22These things are all hard, right? Real
13:23estate business is hard, starting your
13:25own company is hard. Investing in other
13:28companies is hard. The conventional
13:31thing, the safe thing is I just put all
13:32my money in a money market and I get
13:34paid 3% and then after tax I've got 1.5%
13:38and the currency is losing 7% of its
13:41value a year and you're just losing 5 or
13:436% of your wealth every year for your
13:45life. So
13:46that's why Bitcoin is such a compelling
13:50thing. That's why people that believe in
13:51Bitcoin are passionate about it because
13:53the average person shouldn't have to be
13:55a real estate expert. They shouldn't
13:57have to be a tax expert. They shouldn't
13:59have to be capable of launching their
14:01own restaurant or bar or bakery. You
14:04shouldn't have to be a stock picker. Why
14:07shouldn't the typical person just be
14:09able to take their money, put it into an
14:12asset which appreciates in value 15% a
14:15year and they don't have to worry about
14:17it?
14:17>> What about the S&P 500? They can just
14:19put it into the stock market, right?
14:20>> Yeah, John Bogle's real contribution and
14:23the success of the S&P 500 is this idea
14:27that
14:28currency is not a store of value.
14:31Real estate is illiquid and scary and
14:34difficult and inefficient and high
14:36maintenance. So what is the liquid
14:39capital asset that it can I can buy and
14:41it turns out to be like SPY. It's just
14:43the S&P 500 in the form of an ETF. So
14:46that has returned 15% over the past 6
14:49years.
14:50Over 100 years?
14:52Maybe 10%? Something like that?
14:54>> Every year?
14:55>> And if the US dollar is losing 7% of its
14:57value in scarce desirable terms over the
15:00course of 100 years and you're getting
15:0110%
15:02you're getting a 2 or 3% boost and
15:06in return for accepting the volatility
15:09of being invested in the stock market,
15:11but it's not a bad idea, right? If you
15:14want the conventional best idea to
15:17preserve your wealth without taking on
15:20individual, you know, corporate risk and
15:23individual real estate risk, I just buy
15:24the S&P index and wait.
15:26>> What about this?
15:29This is gold.
15:30>> Yep.
15:31>> Why not just put all of my money into
15:33gold?
15:34>> It's not an awful idea to buy gold. Gold
15:37is up, um,
15:3812% a year
15:41for the past 6 years. So, whereas the
15:43S&P's up 15, gold's up 12, the NASDAQ's
15:46up 18.
15:47Bitcoin is up 33.
15:50Okay, so,
15:52generally, if you look at the world and
15:54you say, "Where do you want to save your
15:55money?" You want to buy a capital asset.
15:58Gold's a winner, S&P's a winner,
16:01diversified tech stocks are a winner.
16:04Bitcoin is a winner. Now, you're going
16:06to say to me,
16:08"Well, so then, well, why Bitcoin?"
16:10Well, the answer is, if you're living in
16:12Turkey, if you're living in Argentina,
16:14if you're living in Brazil before the
16:16currency collapses, or Mexico, or
16:18Venezuela, or any country in Africa, you
16:21don't get gold, you don't get the S&P,
16:23you don't get QQQ. You can't buy
16:25diversified real estate in the US. Those
16:28options I named are a Western world
16:31conventional capital assets. So,
16:35the big mistake,
16:36don't invest in non-capital assets.
16:38Don't put all your family's money in
16:40soybeans, you know? Don't buy barrels of
16:43crude oil, don't buy cotton, don't
16:46invest in things that a factory or a
16:48robot or an AI can generate infinite of.
16:53You buy things that the robots and the
16:55AIs and the big factories cannot pump
16:58out by the million gallons. And so, what
17:01is that? It is maybe an ounce of gold,
17:04it is a share in the 500 most desirable
17:07companies in the world, it is one out of
17:1121 million Bitcoin. All of those things
17:14are things that the robots are not going
17:16to create infinite of. Those are capital
17:19assets. Which capital asset
17:22is a function of where you live
17:24and what your mindset is. If you're
17:26living in a war zone,
17:28my advice is Bitcoin because you're not
17:32carrying this through a checkpoint,
17:34right? Like, you know, if if you need to
17:36go through an airport, you want
17:38something that you get to keep and take
17:40with you.
17:41>> You talked about the robots there.
17:43>> Yeah.
17:44>> And uh when we say the robots, I think
17:46we mean both the the surgeon robotics
17:48we're seeing, but also artificial
17:50intelligence that's going to empower
17:52them to be very, very intelligent.
17:53>> Yeah.
17:54>> How has this changed your thesis in how
17:57you view the future? Cuz it's it's a
17:58profound surprise, I think to all of us
18:00that artificial intelligence is
18:02accelerating at the rate we're seeing.
18:04>> Technology fails until it succeeds. When
18:06I was at MIT, people were trying to
18:08make, uh you know, speech recognition
18:10work. It just didn't work. For a
18:11thousand years, people wanted to fly and
18:13it didn't work. And in 1902, the New
18:15York Times declared that every learned
18:18scientist knows that you'll never be
18:19able to fly. And then in 1903, we fly.
18:22In 2023, you know, the AI started
18:26working. You can see what's happening.
18:28We've affected the digital
18:29transformation of intelligence.
18:31Cars are going to drive themselves.
18:33It's pretty clear that anything that
18:35takes massive human labor, you know,
18:38whether it's lawyering, writing a
18:39contract, or composing a poem, or
18:42composing a script, or composing
18:46It's like, you want a book?
18:47Tell the AI what kind of book you want.
18:49Here's my 10, you know, I want this. I
18:52want it to be set in London. I want this
18:54protagonist. Can you make it like that?
18:56Put some more violence in it.
18:58Uh you know, Voltaire, right, was
19:00impressive because he created, you know,
19:03this much literature. And and when he
19:05did it, it came out of the mind of one
19:07man, and that was quite amazing.
19:09And you know, I think we're always going
19:12to admire the people that did it first.
19:15Right? But, you know,
19:17the AIs will think for us.
19:20You know, put the AI into the robot.
19:22We're not that far, right? Like when I
19:24sit when I sit and I talk to my voice
19:27assistant, whether it's Chad or whether
19:29it's Grok, and it's it's like she knows
19:32everything, and she keeps getting
19:33smarter.
19:34You know, you know, every single week
19:37she gets smarter, and it's like what
19:38happens when they go into a robot? It's
19:40like
19:41Well, you can you pretty much can
19:43imagine
19:44a billion robots, and maybe we'll pay
19:46200 bucks a month for a robot, and the
19:49robot will just pretty much do
19:51everything.
19:52And so, the question is do you want
19:53someone to do everything, to cook, to
19:56clean, you know, to take out the trash?
19:59Would you like a self-driving car? Of
20:01course, you do. We're on the verge of
20:03these perfect products, right? That
20:06like we'll get to the point where we're
20:07like I I I I
20:09You used to actually have an oven that
20:11burned things?
20:13Like what?
20:14What what it was stupid? Yeah, it was
20:16too stupid to know it was going to burn
20:18the
20:19Huh? Why don't you just put intelligence
20:21into the appliance, right? What why
20:24would you ever have an unintelligent
20:25appliance, right? At this point, when it
20:28gets exponentially cheaper. We used to
20:30get in traffic accidents.
20:33Right? Like like the big reveal, right?
20:35The big the big inversions when people
20:37realize that the self-driving cars are
20:40safer than the person-driven cars,
20:43right?
20:44It's like you used to make mistakes.
20:47You know, the irony, of course, is now
20:49when you send a message to someone, if
20:50you want to prove that it came from you,
20:52you have to actually put errors in it.
20:55Right? It's like if you put errors in
20:57it, I believe you typed it. You know,
20:59the AI can draft the thing as though it
21:01had a PhD in English, and it had 20
21:03years experience as a copy editor. And
21:06so, we're reaching this point where
21:09lack of of effectiveness is just
21:13laziness, right? Like, if you wrote
21:15something which wasn't perfect,
21:19it's cuz you're lazy, not because you're
21:21not perfect. I mean, the AIs create
21:23perfect documents. They do perfect
21:25research.
21:27The robots will do any amount of work.
21:29And I I think Elon makes this point,
21:31which is we're about to trip over an age
21:33of abundance.
21:34>> Do you believe that's true?
21:36What What does that say about Bitcoin?
21:38Because I'm looking at some of the
21:39quotes here that Elon said about the age
21:40of abundance. And he says, "In the
21:41future, where anyone can have anything,
21:44you no longer need money as a database
21:46for labor allocation. If AI and robotics
21:48are big enough to satisfy all human
21:50needs, then the relevance of money
21:52declines rapidly. I'm not sure we will
21:55have it. If you are stranded on a desert
21:57island with a trillion dollars, it will
21:58be pointless because there is no labor
22:00to allocate. In a benign scenario, we
22:03will have universal high income. Much as
22:05universal basic income mean anyone can
22:07have any products or any services that
22:09they want. Universal high income via
22:12checks issued by federal governments is
22:14the best way to deal with unemployment
22:15caused by AI/robotics.
22:18Because AI and [snorts] robotics will
22:19produce goods and services far in excess
22:21of the increase in money supply, so
22:23there will be no inflation. Work will
22:25become optional, kind of like playing
22:27sports or a video game. You can go to
22:29the store and buy vegetables, or you can
22:31go and grow them in your backyard
22:32because you like growing them.
22:34That's what work will be like. AI and
22:36robotics are going to make so much stuff
22:38and provide so many services that they
22:41will actually run out of things to do
22:43for the humans. Money is fundamentally
22:45information. The true constraints of the
22:47future won't be financial. They'll be
22:50energy and mass.
22:52>> He's half right. I agree with with part
22:55of what he says. That is, consumer
22:58goods, consumables, utilitarian goods uh
23:02will become abundant. But, there are
23:04always going to be scarce desirable
23:06goods that will not become abundant. And
23:09I think he overstates the case. Money
23:11will still be valuable, wealth will
23:13still be valuable. But, I'll give you an
23:15example.
23:17Henry VIII didn't have clean water.
23:19Did not have heat, did not have cooling.
23:22These things the King of England did not
23:23have. And technology gave all these
23:26things to the middle class.
23:28And so, if you live in the middle class
23:30today, you know, you can have your
23:32appendix out, you know. But, Henry VIII
23:34didn't have dental crowns, he didn't
23:35have x-rays. So, you get modern medical
23:38care, you know, the infant mortality
23:41rate has plunged. Life is safer, clean
23:44water, clean air, right?
23:48Clean food. And technology gave them to
23:51us. We stamp out infinite Coca-Cola,
23:54infinite Hershey's bars, ice cream,
23:56right? Running water.
23:59Right? Electricity. So, all of those
24:01things have been given to the middle
24:04class, the working class in the
24:05developed world. Right? Not everywhere,
24:07but let's say in the developed world.
24:08But, everybody doesn't get a Hampton's
24:10house, everybody doesn't get their own
24:12private jet, they don't get their own
24:13private yacht. So, what happened with
24:15the explosion of affluence?
24:18Massive utilitarian entitlement, lots of
24:21cars. But, you know, okay, so everybody
24:22gets a car, but how many people get a
24:24Porsche? What happens with humanity is
24:26we always invent the luxury car.
24:29We come up with the trophy asset. And
24:32And again,
24:34>> But, but most people don't actually want
24:35that. They want to be able to like feed
24:37their family and not have to worry about
24:39the bills. So, all of those people,
24:41you're saying that those people are
24:42going to be They're going to be good.
24:43They're not going to have to work.
24:44>> I'm saying that if if your aspiration is
24:47a good life,
24:49if you want infinite food, infinite
24:52energy, infinite education, infinite
24:55entertainment,
24:58right? You're probably going to get it.
25:00My point is, in theory, right, why does
25:02money matter today?
25:04Cuz everybody, you know, has electricity
25:07and water. Because people want to buy
25:08something more than water. By the way,
25:11water is the proletarian drink.
25:14>> What does that mean?
25:15>> It means that if you go to a restaurant
25:17and you don't and you can't afford
25:18anything else, you ask for a cup of
25:19water,
25:20right?
25:21>> [clears throat]
25:21>> And then if you have some more money,
25:23you get yourself a Coca-Cola or a soft
25:25drink, and that costs five bucks. But if
25:27you have more money, you buy yourself a
25:28vodka. And then when you have more
25:30money, you want to buy yourself the
25:31specialty high-end tequila. And and
25:34eventually people find a way to spend
25:36$38 on a drink.
25:38And uh, you know, in New York City, you
25:40know, you can see that everywhere. Why
25:42do we go to restaurants and pay $300
25:45to eat at a restaurant? Because you can
25:47actually feed yourself on three bucks a
25:49day. And the answer is,
25:51there's always going to be a hierarchy
25:53of affluence, and people are going to
25:54find things to aspire to that will be
25:57more than
25:59the utilitarian mean that everybody
26:02gets. If I give you a universal health
26:04care, people want private health care.
26:06If I give everybody a house, someone's
26:08going to want a house twice as big.
26:10Everybody's always going to have a
26:12reason to want something more, you
26:15>> Because we're status orientated animals.
26:18>> That's the cynical way to look at it,
26:20but the other way to look at it is, I
26:22wanted to be sitting on a mountain peak
26:25skiing, but not that mountain peak,
26:28because the snow's not good on that
26:30mountain peak this week.
26:31>> And it's too busy on this one.
26:33>> Yeah, and that one was too crowded.
26:35You know, it's like there's always going
26:37to be
26:38some exclusivity, you know, there's
26:41going to be a quest. So I I think that
26:44money's not going away. I think it's
26:46pretty obvious if you look around you
26:49that that Uh, people still need money.
26:52It is true
26:54that the basic needs in life, basic
26:57transportation, basic energy, basic
27:00health care, all of those things can be
27:02manufactured in quantity and they'll get
27:04progressively cheaper. We'll call them
27:06consumer goods.
27:08>> If this uh knowledge work does become
27:11I guess taken by the robots and the AIs,
27:14there's some people say there's going to
27:15be new jobs created and everyone will be
27:16fine. But it's not clear to me that
27:19there will be enough new jobs created in
27:20a period of time um to satisfy the
27:23demand of people to have something to do
27:27professionally.
27:28>> It used to be everybody was a farmer,
27:29right? And then all of a sudden in
27:31America we have new jobs like called
27:33accountants and lawyers and film
27:35producers. You're a podcaster. Your job
27:38didn't exist 20 years ago. It did you
27:40know, the job description did not exist,
27:42the business did not exist. There's a
27:44lot of things that exist today. Yeah. I
27:47There are people that make a living
27:49putting on makeup and clothes and
27:50posting on Instagram and that was not a
27:52job that existed 30 years ago.
27:55So, there'll be a lot of new jobs.
27:57There'll be dislocation. There's going
27:59to be political unrest. What do I think?
28:03I think this is the best argument in
28:05favor of encouraging a free market and
28:08allowing uh liberal
28:11uh unregulated
28:13businesses to prosper because
28:16if you have a progressive society and by
28:20the way, the United States is sort of
28:21more progressive.
28:22>> Define progressive in this context.
28:24>> You're allowed to start a business.
28:26You're allowed to sell product.
28:28It's not illegal
28:30to
28:31to create a podcast.
28:33By the way, you you can't do what you're
28:34doing in Cuba.
28:35>> Yeah.
28:36>> Right? In North Korea you couldn't do
28:38it.
28:38>> I read something crazy last night about
28:40driving autonomous cars. It said lawyers
28:42are trying to stop block EVs because
28:46these particular lawyers make a lot of
28:47money from litigating car accidents.
28:50>> We wouldn't want people to not crash.
28:52>> Yeah.
28:53>> Like Yeah, so the point is there all
28:55sorts of laws in restraint of trade.
28:57Like you can't have an Airbnb. In the
29:00face of modern technology, if you have
29:02modern technology is creating
29:04dislocation, if your goal is to
29:07embrace the technology,
29:09create maximum productivity,
29:12and then minimize the disruption and the
29:15inflammation,
29:16then the more degrees of freedom you
29:18offer,
29:20the less pain there'll be because in a
29:22more free society, you're going to have
29:2510,000 new kinds of businesses pop up or
29:28100,000 new business opportunities that
29:32no one conceptualized. And they'll be
29:34threatening to the status quo, but
29:36they'll be rational and they'll create
29:38value, and then they will create gainful
29:40employment, and they'll create wealth
29:42for all the people that are displaced
29:45right by by the technology.
29:50>> Steve, what you doing?
29:51>> Uh just making myself a delicious
29:53coffee.
29:53>> From the freezer?
29:55>> From the freezer. You not heard about
29:56Cometeer?
29:57>> No.
29:58>> Oh my gosh. This is going to change your
29:59life.
30:00Couple of months ago, the founder of
30:01this business called Matt sent a big
30:03shipment of this coffee to our office in
30:06London. What most people don't know is
30:07that the processing of coffee takes out
30:09a lot of the taste. So what they do is
30:11they flash freeze it at the optimal
30:14moment when it's most tasty. And they
30:17send you in the post the coffee in these
30:19little frozen ice cubes. Now Matt sent a
30:21big shipment to my office. I moved it to
30:23the kitchen. I said to the team, knock
30:24yourselves out. And then I saw so many
30:26messages in our Slack channel of people
30:27going, "Oh my god, what the hell is
30:30that? It's so delicious." All I have to
30:32do is pop it out in the morning using
30:33the little button on the back of this
30:34thing. I pour my hot water in, and I mix
30:38it,
30:39and that is done. You can get $30 off
30:42your first order of Cometeer Coffee if
30:45you go to cometeer.com/steven.
30:48Try it and please Instagram DM me,
30:50LinkedIn me, and let me know if you love
30:52it as much as I do.
30:54One of the things you've heard me talk
30:55about quite a lot over the last couple
30:56of years, and this is something that's
30:57true in business and content, but also
30:59with everything in life, is that
31:01consistency is the thing that really,
31:03really compounds. The same is true in
31:05sales. When your team is small,
31:07consistency happens naturally. The team
31:09knows every deal, so nothing gets
31:11missed. But, as I've experienced, when
31:13you grow, this starts to break down and
31:15deals start to slip, follow-ups don't
31:17happen, leads go cold that shouldn't
31:19have. And when this happens, a lot of
31:20leaders look at it and think they have a
31:22people problem. When actually, it's a
31:23systems problem. The businesses that
31:25I've watched scale well commercially all
31:27have a system that team uses every
31:29single day. And for my team, that system
31:32has been our sponsor, Pipedrive. It's an
31:33easy-to-use intelligent CRM tool for
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31:45It's what keeps our commercial operation
31:46consistent when we were a team of five
31:49or when our commercial team was a team
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32:02And there's no credit card needed at
32:04all. Head to pipedrive.com/ceo.
32:09You know, earlier you were talking about
32:10how you can get AI to write a book. I
32:11was thinking as you were saying it, the
32:12interesting thing is, I now ask my AI
32:16um what book I need to read.
32:18And to make that book for me, versus
32:20being prescriptive to it and because it
32:22has what it this huge memory on me. It
32:24knows what I'm I'm dealing with. It
32:25knows the businesses I'm building, the
32:26problems I have. And so, I just say,
32:28"What What do I What's the question I
32:29should be asking you? Or what should
32:31book should I be reading?" And then,
32:33"Can you make that book for me? Make it
32:3420 pages. I like it in this particular
32:36style cuz it's my favorite style of
32:37author. And then I I want to download it
32:39as an MP3 file and listen to it on my
32:41way to work. I have 43 minutes.
32:43Could you say what should What's the
32:45question I should be asking you?
32:46>> Yeah, you're you're using You're using
32:49that as an example, but at the end of
32:51the day, you have to govern the state
32:54space. For example, anybody could say
32:57what question should I ask, but the real
32:59issue is what's the What are the input
33:00constraints? If you're a baker in
33:02Nigeria
33:04in Lagos.
33:05>> Okay, yeah.
33:06>> Right? There's a certain set of
33:07conditions that are different than if
33:09you happen to be a fireman in Los
33:11Angeles.
33:12>> Yeah.
33:12>> Right? And so
33:14what's the state space that you're
33:16exploring in order to create a
33:17contribution?
33:19And I'll give you an example like um
33:22I used AI. I used AI to make $15 billion
33:25last year.
33:27>> Is that a true story?
33:28>> This is true.
33:29>> Okay.
33:29>> You did?
33:29>> I did. Yeah.
33:31And I used an AI to make $15 billion in
33:33a way that no one would ever conceive
33:35that you could make $15 billion.
33:37>> This is a true story?
33:38>> Okay. Yeah, let let's let's go back to
33:39me in 2025.
33:41We have a company that has billions of
33:43dollars of Bitcoin. Uh $30 billion of
33:46Bitcoin. We want to actually raise
33:48capital to buy more Bitcoin. We maxed
33:51out the equity markets. Uh we became the
33:53largest issuer of convertible bonds in
33:56the in the world. And we maxed out the
33:58convertible bond market. And And uh that
34:01was our journey in the first 5 years of
34:03our Bitcoin.
34:03>> To simplify this for Jenny Davis, you
34:05borrowed as much money as you could from
34:06traditional means.
34:07>> Yes.
34:08>> Okay.
34:08>> Yeah.
34:08>> To buy Bitcoin.
34:09>> Yeah.
34:09>> Yeah.
34:10>> By the beginning of 2025, we had issued
34:12as many convertible bonds as you could
34:14issue. We were the largest issuer in the
34:16world. And it wasn't scalable. So, we
34:18needed to invent a new type of security,
34:21a new type of credit instrument that we
34:23could use to borrow money to buy more
34:25Bitcoin.
34:27So,
34:28we went to the AI. I went to the AI and
34:30I started exploring how do I design a
34:32preferred stock.
34:34And so I said, I think I want to create
34:36a security that's not a common equity
34:38and I don't want it to be a bond. I want
34:39it to be some hybrid in the middle. A
34:41preferred stock, you know, for the
34:44layman, it's it's just a security that
34:46could be anything. You can give it any
34:47terms. I can sell you a preferred stock
34:49and give you the right to put it back to
34:51me in 12 months and it looks like that.
34:53I can give you a guaranteed coupon on
34:55it. I can give you conversion rights and
34:58and make it look like equity. So, we
35:00used AI to design a convertible
35:02preferred stock called STRK. When we did
35:05it, no one had ever created a preferred
35:07stock that was backed by Bitcoin before
35:10and and we'd never issued it and so it
35:13was kind of a combination of financial
35:15engineering and digital asset
35:17engineering and legal work and
35:20securities law.
35:21So, we built it and
35:24and, you know, when we asked the lawyers
35:26and the bankers, they're like, well, no
35:27one's ever done it before.
35:29Okay. And and you know, their their
35:30their answer, by the way, is no one's
35:32ever done it before and people don't do
35:33that. So, we don't think you should do
35:35that.
35:36And we're like, well, everything else
35:38that people have done we've maxed out
35:40and so we're kind of at the point where
35:43our growth is going to stop unless we
35:45find a way out of the box. So, we're
35:47going to have to do something no one's
35:48ever done before using
35:51new technology, right? We're using
35:53digital capital. We're using uh
35:56digital intelligence and we're using a
35:59digital treasury company. So, three new
36:02forms of something in order to create
36:04value.
36:05And after we'd done three of them, we
36:07decided what we wanted to do was create
36:09a short duration credit instrument, one
36:12that would be would trade stably around
36:14$100, around par.
36:16And we're trying to figure out how do
36:17you get a preferred stock to trade at at
36:20a stable level? It's what what you would
36:22call technically short duration credit,
36:25but it's like we're trying to create a
36:26money market type instrument where
36:28people can buy it at 100, sell it at
36:29100, collect the yield, and not worry
36:32about it trading up and down or being
36:34sensitive to interest rates.
36:36Well, if you do that, you have to vary
36:38in order to get it to trade stable, if
36:40you want the price to be stable, you
36:41have to change the dividend rate.
36:43And so, we created an instrument
36:46that where we could change the dividend
36:48rate every month. Now, had anybody ever
36:50done it? No. In the history of the
36:52world, no one ever created a variable
36:54dividend rate preferred stock.
36:56Is it illegal? No.
36:58Why has no one ever done it? No one ever
37:00had a reason to do it. They never
37:01thought to do it.
37:03The lawyers, the bankers, the
37:05conventional investors, they're like,
37:06"Well, we've never seen it done before.
37:07We're not sure you can do it."
37:10We go to the AI, we said, "Well, can we
37:11do it?" They're like, "Of course you can
37:12do it. Just do this, this, and this, and
37:14this, and it Well, they said they don't
37:15like that. Well, just do this, this,
37:16this."
37:16>> Which AI?
37:18>> Chat GPT.
37:19Open AI.
37:20>> So, Chat GPT made you $15 billion?
37:23>> Yeah, because the short of it is, we
37:24brought our IPO to market, it became a
37:26$2.5 billion IPO, the biggest IPO of the
37:30year to date.
37:32And then, we put a shelf registration on
37:34it, we sold another $8 billion of it.
37:38So, we sold 10 and 1/2 billion dollars
37:39of that instrument, plus 4 billion of
37:41the other instrument. So, we basically
37:43sold $15 billion of credit, which kind
37:46of equates to the company making about
37:48$15 billion.
37:50>> I'm thinking about what this means
37:51generally for the average person
37:52listening.
37:53>> Yeah.
37:54>> Because everyone's like searching for
37:55business ideas.
37:56>> Right.
37:57>> New ideas. And you're telling me that
37:58you you can use AI now to come up with
38:01novel business ideas and solutions that
38:03are outside of the box and that would
38:05generate value for people. Um you though
38:08there is it's almost like hearing that
38:10there's an arbitrage opportunity with
38:11this intelligence.
38:13Now, I was reading something the other
38:14day that said only 2% of households have
38:16a Chat GPT or AI subscription still.
38:20So, do you think there is an an an
38:21arbitrage there for people who go to AI
38:23now and and can build business ideas
38:26from it?
38:27>> If If you're an entrepreneur, right? If
38:28you If you aspire to create a business
38:31or create something of value, then it's
38:34the no-brainer is you definitely should
38:37pick one or more of these AIs and maybe
38:40you want to become adept using multiple.
38:42They're They're just different tools.
38:43It's It's kind of like saying you got to
38:45learn how to use a computer and you got
38:47to learn how to read reading, writing,
38:49arithmetic, right? Just basics.
38:52And then
38:53once you've done that, you you do need
38:56to have some domain expertise in
38:58something, right? The question is
39:01what are you going to do, right? You
39:02either want to create
39:04a new product or you want to create a
39:06new service
39:08or you want to radically transform an
39:11existing product or service using AI to
39:15be much cheaper, much better.
39:19But to my mind, you know, I would try to
39:21create something magical.
39:23Like for example can you create
39:25something that does everybody's
39:26accounting, does you know, does the work
39:28of a million accountants and sell it for
39:3010 bucks a month?
39:32Right?
39:32>> If you're 18 now, if your kids came to
39:34you and said, "Dad, what should I
39:36go and study at university? And what
39:38shouldn't I study at university?
39:40Would your answer be different now as we
39:42stand on the foothills of this new
39:43technology?"
39:44>> You want to study the new thing, right?
39:46You want to learn the new thing. And so,
39:48if you look at the history of of
39:50science, the real question is, what's on
39:52the S-curve?
39:53>> On the S-curve?
39:53>> The whole theory of the S-curve is for a
39:55thousand years we try to fly.
39:58And infinite energy makes no progress.
40:00You cannot fly. And then in 1903
40:04all of a sudden we can sort of fly.
40:06And in 66 years we go from flying 20
40:11miles an hour to flying 300 miles an
40:13hour. First a fighter jet, then a
40:15passenger jet, then we have like rockets
40:17that are unmanned. Then we have manned
40:18rockets. And then we have rockets to go
40:20to orbit. Then we have rockets to go to
40:21the moon. And so that's an example of an
40:23S curve. But then you know what happens.
40:25In the mid 70s, we designed the 737, the
40:27747.
40:29And we hit a wall. You know, and 737 is
40:33still the primary airplane for the next
40:3450 years.
40:36And if you look at the efficiency of an
40:37airplane from 1975
40:41uh to the year 2025, over 50 years,
40:44the modern airplanes are 15% more
40:47efficient.
40:48Like So, what you got was a diminishing
40:50return. And when you're on the S curve,
40:53things are doubling every 3 years.
40:55You're doubling, you're doubling, you're
40:56doubling. You're exponential growth.
40:59And then you hit diminishing returns.
41:00And then you stagnate. And then you
41:02stop. And then things are just not
41:04getting any better. So,
41:05>> Let's show an S curve on the screen. And
41:07also
41:08uh the the new S curve coming in below
41:10it.
41:11>> Like when I was at MIT, you know,
41:12everybody basically flocked to uh
41:15electrical engineering and computer
41:16science. Because that was the cool
41:18thing. And so, the mistake to make when
41:21you go to school is
41:22you get at the end of the S curve. You
41:24basically start studying something that
41:27has hit diminishing returns. And once
41:29you hit that diminishing return,
41:32no material progress may take place for
41:34100 years. It might be that you just
41:37can't break through. Propulsion
41:40technology is the limiting factor. Like
41:43why don't we have planes that will fly,
41:45you know, supersonic, you know, on um
41:49you know, a tank of gas that's that's
41:51this much, right? Or fusion drives.
41:53Well, cuz we don't. Now, on the other
41:56hand,
41:57semiconductors
41:58uh started exploding. And semi And
42:00semiconductor technology has continued
42:02to advance. We haven't hit
42:04that limit yet. And that's that's why so
42:08many profound breakthroughs were made in
42:10computer science over the past 50 years.
42:13>> This is kind of hit a nice curve, hasn't
42:15it? As a form factor, my iPhone here.
42:17You know, that over since the iPhone, as
42:19you said, since the iPhone like 6,
42:22it hasn't really gotten thinner, but uh
42:24the battery hasn't really taken a leap
42:26forward as such. So, we're now looking
42:28for another form factor to interface
42:30with computers.
42:31>> Yeah, you know, the iPhone 1 didn't have
42:33cut and paste.
42:35And we didn't get cut and paste till the
42:37version 3.
42:38And so, there was a rapid improvement
42:40versions 1 through 6 or 1 through 7,
42:44call it.
42:45And at that point, you start hitting
42:48diminishing returns. And if you were to
42:49do some utility function, and you were
42:51to score on a scale of 1 to 100, you
42:54would have gone from like 5 to 70 in a
42:58hurry, and then you would have gone from
43:0170 to 90 over the next few iterations,
43:04and then that you're 91, 92.
43:07You hit that limit, and I if if you are
43:10starting a company, right? You don't
43:11create another iPhone.
43:13Right? The [clears throat] real question
43:14right now
43:15is uh
43:17can I create smart glasses where I have
43:19something that's like my Maui Jim
43:20sunglasses, I put them on, they weigh
43:22nothing, and they have the camera, and
43:24they see what I see, and they hear what
43:26I hear, and they know where I am,
43:29and plug that into AI, and in that
43:31point, I can just say, "Hey, Eve, what
43:35is that?"
43:37You know, "Where am I? And tell me about
43:39that." And and it's like
43:42"Why do I have to type anymore?"
43:44>> When I met Mark Zuckerberg, he showed me
43:46the the device that's on the way from
43:48Meta. This is not secret, cuz I know
43:50they've talked about it publicly. Which
43:51is just a it was just a plain wrist
43:53strap with no screen on it.
43:55But it linked to the glasses.
43:58And in the glasses, when I looked
44:00around, I could see all of my screens
44:01and everything like that. And I And if I
44:02just because of this wrist strap, if I
44:04just click, it clicks on all the stuff.
44:06So, I was just like, "Hey, with this
44:07little wrist strap. The wrist strap
44:08again was just like a cotton bracelet,
44:11very thin cotton bracelet. And as I just
44:13looked around, I could click on
44:14everything and open things and call
44:16people and send texts and go on YouTube,
44:17etc. And it was just up here in my
44:19peripheral. You imagine again, imagine
44:21that on an S curve. At some point it's
44:22going to be a some sort of like almost
44:24like contact lens type thing
44:26that's that I can just
44:29>> By the way, this is why you should study
44:31fantasy, right? Because they have this,
44:34right? In magic worlds, right? This is
44:36like
44:37you know, like I just wear my talisman.
44:39You know, I have a necklace. What does
44:40it do? Oh, it makes me omniscient, all
44:42powerful, immortal, indestructible. I
44:45live forever. What what what do you have
44:47to do to make the product work? Nothing.
44:50I'm wearing the wristband and I walk and
44:51every door opens to me and stuff
44:53happens. And here's where Elon gets it
44:55right. It's like the number one
44:56engineering mistake is engineers want to
44:58optimize the part that shouldn't exist.
45:00Like make the parts go away, right? We
45:03start on the topic of what should you
45:05study,
45:06right? It's It's study technologies that
45:09allow you to create magic things that
45:11your parents could never
45:13If your parents would say that's magic,
45:16you're on the right track, right? So,
45:17like how about What's better than the
45:19wristband? Just like How about you just
45:21like implant one pellet?
45:23>> Neuralink.
45:24>> Yeah. Maybe it's a Neuralink. Maybe it's
45:27Maybe it's when I'm born, there's a
45:29slight implant and now I I hear like I
45:33can talk to the AI in cyberspace
45:36forever.
45:37>> But should you go study that because
45:38conceivably the artificial intelligence
45:41and the robots are going to be the ones
45:42that create that technology. If they
45:44have a PhD in everything and that's
45:45accelerating.
45:46>> Yeah, well, I guess we're back back to
45:48the what should you study? You ought to
45:50study digital intelligence or digital
45:53assets. If you can generate,
45:56you know, generate proteins, generate
45:58generate any kind of
46:01life form or enzyme or protein or the
46:04like, maybe it's interesting.
46:06But I think with regard to AI,
46:09you don't want to learn how to do things
46:11that AI can do. What you want to do is
46:13learn how to ask the AI to do something
46:17that's never been done before. Like if I
46:19were to go back to school, 95% of what I
46:22learned, uh, probably wouldn't want to
46:24study.
46:25>> What about a surgeon? Do you think
46:26you're going to be a surgeon?
46:27>> No.
46:28>> What about a a lawyer?
46:30>> No.
46:31>> Accountant?
46:32>> No.
46:33>> Driver?
46:34>> No.
46:36At some point, what you have to do is
46:39ask
46:40the AIs aren't really answering the
46:42question yet, but you have but you have
46:43to ask whatever is the marginal question
46:45that hasn't been answered by the
46:46civilization. Maybe I'll take it I'll
46:49take that position, which is
46:51the way you create value in the world is
46:53you bring something into the world that
46:55wasn't here before.
46:58>> This is something that I've made for
47:00you. I realized that the Diary of a CEO
47:01audience are strivers, whether it's in
47:03business or health, we all have big
47:05goals that we want to accomplish. And
47:07one of the things I've learned is that
47:09when you aim at the big, big, big goal,
47:11it can feel incredibly psychologically
47:14uncomfortable because it's kind of like
47:16being stood at the foot of Mount Everest
47:17and looking upwards. The way to
47:19accomplish your goals is by breaking
47:21them down into tiny, small steps, and we
47:24call this in our team the 1%. this
47:26philosophy is highly responsible for
47:28much of our success here. So, what we've
47:31done so that you at home can accomplish
47:33any big goal that you have, is we've
47:35made these 1% diaries, and we released
47:38these last year and they all sold out.
47:40So, I asked my team over and over again
47:42to bring the diaries back, but also to
47:43introduce some new colors and to make
47:45some minor tweaks to the diary. So, now
47:47we have a better range for you. So, if
47:51you have a big goal in mind, and you
47:53need a framework and a process and some
47:55motivation, then I highly recommend you
47:57get one of these diaries before they all
47:59sell out once again. And you can get
48:01yours at the diary.com.
48:03And if you want the link, the link is in
48:04the description below.
48:06There should be a button just down below
48:08here. And if it says subscribed, you're
48:10already subscribed. If it says subscribe
48:12bar, that means you're not yet. And if
48:14you're not subscribed, please could you
48:15do us a favor and hit that button. It
48:16helps the show more than you know. And
48:18according to the algorithm, you're
48:19someone that watches our show, but you
48:21haven't yet hit that button. Thank you
48:22so much.
48:24Beyond just buying Bitcoin, is there any
48:26sort of actionable steps that the
48:28working class should take right now to
48:30pre- prepare for this robot transition
48:33that you're talking about?
48:35>> I mean, the actionable step is is
48:39learn
48:40>> Learn about the robots.
48:41>> digital. Right?
48:42>> Digital.
48:42>> Like understand digital. For example,
48:45how much content's available on YouTube
48:46right now? Like
48:48>> Infinite, right now.
48:49>> Right? What can you get for free on
48:51YouTube and what can you create of
48:53value, right? If you're in the business
48:55of content creation, my advice would be
48:58study digital channels. As As like,
49:02should I go and become a stage actor on
49:04Broadway?
49:06It's It's a It's a
49:09a much smaller thing. Mr. Beast can get
49:11100 million subscribers, you can get 20
49:13million subscribers. You're not getting
49:1520 million subscribers if you do the
49:18thing that your parents' parents did.
49:21So, I think that you want to look at
49:22digital platforms. There's There's
49:24digital communication like Acts or
49:26Instagram, there's YouTube and
49:29and the like, but there's also
49:32There's also digital intelligence.
49:34>> Let's just just test that first point a
49:36bit. I guess a lot of content creators
49:38are thinking at the moment now because
49:39of these frontier models that can
49:41produce video content, pictures. A kid
49:44in Mumbai or Manhattan, where we are
49:46now, can set up an agent while they're
49:48asleep and say, "Listen, just post 100
49:51videos while I'm asleep on this every
49:54single platform.
49:55I actually I'll make five agents and
49:57I'll ask all of them to post 100 videos
50:00each. So, you're going to have this you
50:01have in terms of supply and demand,
50:02presumably that's a supply shock.
50:04There's this slop tsunami coming in. And
50:06then if you look at demand of attention
50:08online, it is arguably fixed. Financial
50:10Times did a report said that young young
50:12people are actually starting to come
50:14down in terms of time spent online. Uh
50:16slightly older generations are starting
50:18from a lower base, but they're still
50:19going up, but they're starting from a
50:20lower base. So, you've got a tsunami
50:22slop of supply and fixed demand.
50:25I get this even this business feels a
50:27little bit insecure. Actually, a lot of
50:29the major podcasters are actually down
50:30on YouTube. If I look at the top who I
50:32would consider the sort of top five
50:34podcasters in my niche, um every single
50:36one of them is down at least 50% in the
50:38last 20-ish uh 12 12 24 months.
50:41>> Well, the solution is certainly not to
50:43not pay attention, right? So, for
50:45example, if you're in the business of
50:47creating content right now, you would
50:49ask the question, can I enhance the
50:51content with AI?
50:53Or can I better market or distribute the
50:55content with AI?
50:57>> What is the moat?
50:59>> The moat's going to be the most talented
51:01content cre- the person creating the
51:03best stuff that everybody wants to see.
51:05There are videos being created like,
51:07here's a walk-through of a 16th century
51:10warship.
51:11And you know, I don't know if you've
51:12seen a guy constructs the entire warship
51:15from the keel and he creates the ribs
51:17and he shows you the lower deck and the
51:18ballast and he takes you through every
51:20step and it's a three-dimensional uh
51:22video animation.
51:24Takes about an hour and it's absolutely
51:26riveting. I have no reason to care about
51:2916th century warships, but I can't take
51:31my eyes off it because it's just so
51:34fascinating to see him explain
51:35everything.
51:36>> Are you saying creativity is the moat
51:38still?
51:39Or understanding what humans want and
51:41then delivering it it which I guess is
51:43creativity.
51:44>> Let's say the Led Zeppelin example. But
51:48what what you see in human history
51:51is
51:52within 10 years of whenever there's a
51:55new technology platform, there's some
51:58geniuses. They push it to the limit and
52:01they do 95% of everything that can be
52:04done and it all happens within 10 years
52:06and they live forever. So
52:08why didn't anybody before Beethoven do
52:10stuff with the piano? Well, the piano
52:11comes out, some genius does stuff with
52:14the piano, right? And between Beethoven
52:17and Chopin and you know, and a a few
52:19players, it's like it's not clear to me
52:21if humans try for another 10,000 years,
52:23they'll do
52:24much better.
52:25So with Led Zeppelin, you had electric
52:28guitars and amplification and everything
52:30kind of clicked late 60s.
52:33Like the sound of the early 60s was not
52:35quite there and then by 1971, 72, you
52:39could do some amazing stuff. And if you
52:41think about all the classic rock between
52:431970 and 1980,
52:46you have human creativity pushing the
52:49edge of the envelope in so many
52:51directions and then you hit this
52:52diminishing return. And then along comes
52:55sampling, right? And then you get
52:57Swedish House Mafia and Avicii and
52:59that's new technology and then they push
53:01it to the extreme.
53:03And then along comes YouTube and Justin
53:06Bieber comes out of nowhere, you know,
53:09and Mr. Beast comes out of nowhere and
53:11they push it to the extreme.
53:13And what you see with every generation
53:15is
53:16I give you a new thing, whether it's a
53:18piano or electric guitar or internet.
53:22Think about Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg
53:24and what he did at just about the point
53:26when you could do that with the web and
53:28then think about the early mobile apps,
53:30you know, WhatsApp and the like and it's
53:32like
53:33what you want to do if you want to
53:34create these incredible success things
53:38is
53:39you want to locate
53:41the magic opportunity right at the right
53:45point on the S curve where it just now
53:48became commercially viable to do it and
53:51is a zero to one moment and you want to
53:54be there. You want to be the first
53:55person
53:57that applies that technology, right? To
54:01this new idea. Like what did our company
54:03do to to go from nothing to 60 billion
54:06dollars or from 1 billion to 60 billion?
54:09We were the first company to take
54:11digital capital, Bitcoin,
54:13and put it together with digital credit
54:17and a digital treasury model. So, we
54:19created a credit instrument, a security
54:21that you could never created before. You
54:23couldn't have made it 10 years ago. You
54:25couldn't build it on top of anything
54:27other than Bitcoin. So, we needed to get
54:31to the point where we had 10 or 20
54:32billion dollars of capital
54:35and then we could create this thing that
54:37was a multi-billion dollar thing and
54:39that becomes resident and that window
54:42is like 12 to 24 months. And you go
54:45through that window and you create
54:46something that might be a hundred
54:48billion dollar thing because you go
54:50through if you went through 36 months
54:52early, you smack into a wall and you
54:54fail. And if you wait,
54:56like at this point, our company is 20
54:58times bigger than the next biggest one,
55:0050 times bigger than the company doing
55:02something similar. Did we plan it? Not
55:06at all.
55:07We found some extraordinary cool thing.
55:10We committed to it with all of our heart
55:12and soul and we declared we were going
55:13to make it work come hell or high water
55:16and we got punched in the face a hundred
55:18times and every single time we ran into
55:20a problem,
55:21we stopped, we recalibrated, we went a
55:24different direction and the process of
55:26creating something beautiful,
55:28like the beautiful thing, like everyone
55:30wants a bank account that pays 10%. So,
55:32if you can figure out how to give people
55:34this thing they want with a new
55:37technology
55:39that was impossible that did not exist 5
55:42years or 3 years earlier.
55:44Then you resonate in the society, right?
55:47You would go viral. Like we were just
55:48the first ones to get there. It
55:50exploded. If you gave me a billion
55:52dollars right now and said run a
55:53marketing campaign, it wouldn't be as
55:56effective. Like you couldn't buy the
55:59success with a billion dollars of
56:00marketing. You just have to that let's
56:03up guys. They didn't spend a billion
56:04dollars marketing. You got to be in the
56:06right place, the right time,
56:09and you have to have the courage
56:11to offer people the new thing.
56:14>> I have been thinking a lot about this.
56:17This idea of you said, you know, if you
56:18spend a billion dollars you couldn't go
56:20as viral as that. And if someone came
56:21along and spent a ton of money today,
56:23they couldn't go as big as
56:24let's say Michael Jackson.
56:27When we go back through history, I was
56:28thinking about this this idea because I
56:30watched the Michael Jackson documentary
56:31recently and he was
56:33at a level of fame that is I don't think
56:36we've ever seen since. And I think part
56:38of the reason why it was because there
56:39was a constraint on the distribution
56:41channels back then. So in my house,
56:44there was 20 albums over there, books of
56:46albums, and Michael Jackson was like
56:48three of them. And then the other way
56:50that we could consume was the TV over
56:52there and there was like six channels
56:54and MTV was one of them and it was
56:56Michael Jackson all day.
56:57>> [snorts]
56:57>> In the world we live in now where
56:59there's my phone experience is a
57:01completely different phone experience to
57:03yours because of AI. AI is learning what
57:05I like and showing me my own little
57:07version of the world. I wonder [snorts]
57:09if it's possible to be
57:12as big as a
57:14Michael Jackson once was for anybody
57:16these days. And actually I even with the
57:18YouTube you mentioned earlier, I wonder
57:20now if fame or cool being a content
57:23creator or a musician once looked like
57:26this
57:27this sort of like high ceiling and then
57:32you're known for a hundred years like
57:33Michael Jackson.
57:35And now with algorithms that are
57:37personalized, does it now look like
57:38this?
57:41Shorter and shallower.
57:44>> Is it possible to get big? You could
57:46say, well, I can't get as big as Michael
57:48Jackson, but on the other hand, Elon
57:50Musk got big.
57:52Right? Like Like there are things that
57:54get big, right? Companies get big.
57:56OpenAI went from nothing to how many
57:58users in just a few months.
58:01So I I think what you could say is going
58:03viral is about hitting a resonating
58:05frequency in the civilization, whether
58:07it's an artistic frequency or it's a
58:09political frequency, or it's a it's a
58:12technical frequency. Yeah, there are
58:15some things
58:17where there's going to be a glut.
58:18There's going to be Well, let's take
58:20Instagram, right? It's like
58:23on one hand, a billion people have like
58:26bad photos posted online, but on the
58:29other hand, there are people that
58:30managed to get, you know, 8 million
58:33followers, and they, you know, are the
58:36Kard- Kardashians, you know? You have
58:39these people that get massively big, and
58:42that's the other side of the equation.
58:46So
58:46I don't really know how it all plays out
58:50except for the fact that it seems clear
58:52that there is room for human creativity
58:55and innovation.
58:57And if your goal is to make a
58:59contribution,
59:02right? If you're at the If you're in
59:03your working years where you want to
59:05upgrade the world and make a difference
59:08and be remembered for something,
59:10then a a pretty simple principle is
59:13don't keep doing the same thing over and
59:16over, working harder and harder every
59:19year, fighting against the modern
59:21automation,
59:23you know, epidemic, right? Don't try to
59:25outwork the robots. It's like you're
59:28you're lamenting, you know,
59:30how difficult it is for a content
59:32creator, but let me remind you that it
59:34used to be you would go be a college
59:36professor and teach 200 students a year
59:40for 20 years and you would feel that
59:43your life contribution was 4,000
59:46people's whose minds you touched.
59:49And now you get 4,000 people a second.
59:53Okay? So, you're charging yourself
59:55against,
59:57you know, the next thing, but if you
59:59look back in time, technology has given
1:00:02us the ability to amplify
1:00:05our intellect and amplify
1:00:08our creativity
1:00:10in a way that is
1:00:12unprecedented in human history.
1:00:14>> Yeah, I think I think in part it's I'm
1:00:15wondering now if we're kind of
1:00:17we technology said, "Okay, you can reach
1:00:19more people." TV, radio, all these
1:00:22things. And actually now with
1:00:23intelligence, it's saying, "Ooh, we can
1:00:25figure out exactly what Michael wants."
1:00:27So, we're starting to live in these
1:00:28smaller echo chambers where your
1:00:30creative idea or your creative piece of
1:00:32content reaching lots of people is going
1:00:33to become harder because the algorithms
1:00:34are now in the way and they're deciding
1:00:36who sees what.
1:00:37And they're optimizing for
1:00:39the the I guess the platform, the the
1:00:42platform's monetary desire. The other
1:00:44thing that I think is really interesting
1:00:45and I've been mulling for the last
1:00:46couple of months is that that which is
1:00:49really really hard and scarce and
1:00:50actually you could say something being
1:00:52hard and scarce are are the are the same
1:00:55cuz to create something scarce is also
1:00:57hard, like you did with that financial
1:00:58instrument. Very few people on Earth
1:01:00could have created that. We don't run
1:01:01public companies, we don't have the
1:01:03information, etc. Or even that YouTuber
1:01:05you mentioned who walks you through
1:01:06those
1:01:07the 1600s or whatever. That is very hard
1:01:10to do. I theorize that actually pursuing
1:01:12that which is hard and scarce Getting
1:01:15you to come here today is not easy. So,
1:01:17that's kind of my moat. Michelle Obama
1:01:18coming and sitting down with me here is
1:01:20still kind of my moat. Um is is is what
1:01:23we should aim at.
1:01:25What do you think of that as a theory?
1:01:27>> I agree. Let's say you have a business,
1:01:29whatever your business is,
1:01:31right now the right thing to do is to
1:01:34spend an intense time with the AI
1:01:37considering what are all the ways you
1:01:39can upgrade and improve the product or
1:01:42the service you create, right?
1:01:44Uh, for example, like the it used to be
1:01:47you do this in English and the issue is,
1:01:49well, what if What about Japanese or
1:01:50Chinese or French or whatever? And, you
1:01:54know, the hard way is you learn 20
1:01:55languages and, you know, but then how
1:01:57does your guest How do we translate it
1:01:59or you hire, you know, we used to spend
1:02:01money to hire translators, but now
1:02:04you could have the AI translate this
1:02:06into a hundred languages, right? Now,
1:02:08the question is should you
1:02:10or not? Can I enhance it?
1:02:12Right? It's interesting when someone
1:02:13describes something, but you're like,
1:02:15let's just put up a chart of the S curve
1:02:16there. And then the next step is can I
1:02:18market it better or distribute it
1:02:20better? And the next step is
1:02:23am I creating something that'll be
1:02:24valuable in a decade? Well, will it be
1:02:26valuable in a hundred years?
1:02:28>> Well, this is probably a good time to
1:02:29mention this. 24 months ago we started
1:02:31exactly that, which is
1:02:32>> They're all aliens, you just never see
1:02:33them.
1:02:38Arabic
1:02:43>> Tell me.
1:02:43>> Yeah, and and ask yourself how many
1:02:45people that do podcast interviews offer
1:02:48that level of quality of content? And
1:02:51>> I can see that
1:02:51>> I think that you're I think you're
1:02:52outstripping like I don't know that
1:02:54anybody else has done it that well.
1:02:57Right?
1:02:57>> We started almost three years ago and
1:03:00for the first 24 months it was a tragic
1:03:02failure. So, you had the data scientists
1:03:03in the corner of our office failing for
1:03:0524 months. And then about 12 months ago
1:03:08for the first time ever we saw that the
1:03:10translation technology underneath us had
1:03:12improved and that we could get the view
1:03:14duration in Spanish to be higher
1:03:17[snorts]
1:03:18than English.
1:03:19>> And how many months do you think Jimmy
1:03:20Page spent trying to master the electric
1:03:22guitar?
1:03:23More than 24 months?
1:03:24>> a lot longer.
1:03:25>> My advice to an entrepreneur is
1:03:28you focus, you commit.
1:03:31If you're successful in less than 4
1:03:33years, you got lucky. It's pro- Yeah. If
1:03:36it takes you 10 years, well, between 4
1:03:38and 10 years is is very, very normal.
1:03:42If you haven't had success by the
1:03:4410-year point, you're probably not cut
1:03:45out for the business. But, you know,
1:03:48what you're doing is it's totally
1:03:49logical. It's like, is AI going to
1:03:51remake this industry? The first issue is
1:03:54can you make the product better? And the
1:03:56second question is what's it worth?
1:03:58Right? Right? You can do that. Can you
1:04:00get paid? You know? And by the way, even
1:04:02if you didn't get paid,
1:04:04I would argue that your audience have
1:04:07limited attention span. It's like, I
1:04:08don't have time to listen to every Lex
1:04:11Fridman, every Joe Rogan, every Diary of
1:04:14the CEO, and every one of the next 20.
1:04:16And so, I'm going to become loyal. I'm
1:04:19going to become a customer and a fan of
1:04:22whoever serves me the best content. And
1:04:25certainly, if I'm a native Portuguese
1:04:27speaker
1:04:28>> [snorts]
1:04:28>> or a native Russian speaker, you all of
1:04:30a sudden just leaped, right? To the top.
1:04:33>> This gets to my point about hard and
1:04:35scarce because
1:04:36people in in Portugal maybe have never
1:04:39heard Michael Saylor before in
1:04:41Portuguese.
1:04:42So, in terms of scarce, it's actually
1:04:43the only interview now available that is
1:04:452 hours long of Michael Saylor talking
1:04:48in Cantonese with Steven, you know?
1:04:50And so, that the we then are competing.
1:04:52We have That's kind of the moat then,
1:04:53right?
1:04:54>> And that that becomes a benefit to all
1:04:55your guest. You're the distribution
1:04:57channel for me
1:04:59to send the message of digital capital,
1:05:03digital empowerment to the world. And
1:05:06then,
1:05:07your guest become your moat. I think
1:05:09that
1:05:11with every single business, it's pretty
1:05:13clear you have to ask the question, is
1:05:15technology going to cannibalize my
1:05:18business or disrupt it, and am I going
1:05:20to be the one that embraces it and
1:05:22evolves and grows with it, or am I going
1:05:25to fight it? And then of course,
1:05:27you're in a dialogue with the market.
1:05:30For example, the great thing about what
1:05:31you've done is if you've done it, you
1:05:33can look and see how it runs and how and
1:05:35whether YouTube actually expands your
1:05:37reach, and then you can look at the
1:05:38engagement and and figure out whether or
1:05:41not you're able to monetize that,
1:05:43whether you're able to
1:05:44able to convert that, and then you tweak
1:05:46it, right, and adjust, and you're
1:05:506 months or 12 months can be enough that
1:05:52you have a lasting advantage forever,
1:05:54right? If you're 12 months ahead of
1:05:55everybody else,
1:05:56>> and you're compounding in
1:05:58>> Yeah, it compounds over time, and then
1:06:00maybe they never catch you. Like it's
1:06:02That's you know, but that's the story of
1:06:04every business.
1:06:06Right, that's the that's the story of
1:06:07Ford Motor Company and Standard Oil,
1:06:09that's the story of Microsoft, it's the
1:06:11story of Facebook, it's everybody's
1:06:14story, which is
1:06:15you just have to focus, commit, and then
1:06:19if you're good enough,
1:06:21invariably what happens is is your
1:06:24customers
1:06:26will make you the winner.
1:06:28The world needs someone to do what you
1:06:30do.
1:06:31Like someone had to has to win, right?
1:06:34There needs to be a winner. The audience
1:06:36out there wants they want what you do.
1:06:39They want they they want to walk into
1:06:41the living room and figure out what
1:06:43Obama was thinking, or they want to
1:06:45hear, you know, what Mark Zuckerberg was
1:06:47thinking, and they want someone to bring
1:06:50them into that living room. They want
1:06:52you to host them in. They need someone
1:06:55to do that job. You don't
1:06:58you don't have to be
1:07:00what, perfect or better than anybody
1:07:02ever lived. You need to be better than
1:07:04the people that are currently doing it
1:07:06now, or you need to be one of
1:07:08you know, a handful of people that are
1:07:11that are doing it because at that point
1:07:14right, the audience comes to you, the
1:07:16guests come to you.
1:07:18You're making a market, right?
1:07:20You're the market maker in that
1:07:22information.
1:07:24It's just the real key is
1:07:26know what your value proposition is,
1:07:28stay in your lane.
1:07:30You know, don't don't try to compete in
1:07:33an area where you're not going to be the
1:07:35best in the world.
1:07:37But on the other hand
1:07:39right, the the one thing that's pretty
1:07:41clear is that anybody can have the best
1:07:44in the world in like 2 seconds at their
1:07:46fingertips. And so you don't want to be
1:07:49the third best. You don't want to be
1:07:51mediocre across a bunch of things. You
1:07:53want to be exceptional in one area.
1:07:56Figure out what that one area is and
1:07:58then
1:07:59maybe you have 2 million followers then
1:08:01200 million followers, right? Then
1:08:03eventually, you know, over 100 years 2
1:08:05billion. You
1:08:07You just You just have to have this
1:08:08vision.
1:08:09>> One of the things that comes with the
1:08:11pursuit of being first is you go over
1:08:14the hill, you take the arrows as the
1:08:15phrase goes. And so even in that
1:08:17experiment that I just showed you that
1:08:18we started 3 years ago, which was trying
1:08:19to figure out how we translate the
1:08:21diversity into lots of different
1:08:22languages. It sounds simple. Problem is
1:08:24you you discover you could up.
1:08:25Spanish words are longer. So the video
1:08:27in Spanish is 3 hours 10, but in English
1:08:29it's 3 hours it's just 3 hours. And then
1:08:31the video's going to be out and then
1:08:32Cantonese, how long is Cantonese words?
1:08:34And then you go, "Oh my god." You have
1:08:35to then translate all the thumbnails and
1:08:37all the titles in 20 languages at the
1:08:38same time. That's why you end up 3 years
1:08:40in when you thought it was just a 1-hour
1:08:43job. But also, if you zoom out even
1:08:45further, there's this graveyard of other
1:08:47things we tried that never worked.
1:08:49There's this the other 90% of
1:08:51experiments we ran in the corner that
1:08:53did nothing.
1:08:54And it's I I always say to the team,
1:08:56there's two things a year that define
1:08:57us.
1:08:58And of that, in our failure and an
1:09:00team, which is literally what it's
1:09:01called. We tried 60 things. Now, but
1:09:04there's this that you know, five of them
1:09:05are meh.
1:09:06Two of them
1:09:08game-changing. So, the attitude of
1:09:09dealing with failure at the very
1:09:11forefront of trying to be first, I think
1:09:14is something people don't talk about
1:09:15enough.
1:09:16>> Focus your energy.
1:09:17Guard your time.
1:09:19Just cuz you can do a thing doesn't mean
1:09:21you should do the thing.
1:09:24Right? Most of the time, the reason
1:09:26people fail is they get successful in
1:09:28their 30s and they're successful at one
1:09:30thing and it's like all of a sudden
1:09:32they've decided they're going to do 10
1:09:34other things because they're good at
1:09:36everything and they dilute their focus
1:09:38in 10 ways.
1:09:40People always underestimate the
1:09:42maintenance obligation. Like always.
1:09:45And so I the right the right solution to
1:09:48growth is
1:09:50I would like to make whatever I'm doing
1:09:52twice as good.
1:09:54And if I do 10 things to make it 10%
1:09:57better, I'm probably diluting,
1:09:58distracting the uh phenomenon that
1:10:01causes most businesses to fail.
1:10:04It's uh dilutive distractions or it's
1:10:06it's dilutive expansions. They do one
1:10:08thing, it works, and then instead of
1:10:11turning their energy in
1:10:13to make that better and better and
1:10:15better and better, they start to
1:10:17bifurcate and trifurcate and they expand
1:10:21and they overreach
1:10:23to too many areas. It's like the dude
1:10:25with the great restaurant
1:10:27and he's got the second restaurant and
1:10:28he's got a chain of 37 restaurants and
1:10:30they all suck.
1:10:32And it's like, "Yeah, I remember the guy
1:10:33used to have There's no one, by the way,
1:10:35with a failed restaurant chain that
1:10:37wasn't a successful restauranteur at
1:10:40scale one.
1:10:41>> Mhm.
1:10:41>> Right? Like, you didn't get to a failure
1:10:43of 37 or 62 or 437 until you had a good
1:10:47one, but it's very, very common that
1:10:50people think that they can just
1:10:51cookie-cutter these things out and you
1:10:54can't. And so, the conundrum that you're
1:10:57putting your finger on is
1:10:59I want to grow and progress, but I want
1:11:02to not dilute and distract. And that
1:11:06requires this maturity of saying, I
1:11:08tried it,
1:11:10had a moderate success, but it's not
1:11:12enough. Kill it, right?
1:11:14Like and and and move on because it's
1:11:17just not going to work.
1:11:18>> There's two things that came to mind
1:11:19there. The first is a lot of young
1:11:21people come up to me and they're 9
1:11:22months into their idea and they're not
1:11:24rich yet. So they're They look over
1:11:26there and they see their friend has
1:11:27started a thing with a CBD. And so
1:11:31they're like, I think I need to go into
1:11:32CBD. And so their careers kind of look
1:11:34like this sort of like swinging through
1:11:35the jungle grabbing onto the next branch
1:11:37and letting go of the last and never
1:11:39really making um
1:11:41upward motion towards any goal. And then
1:11:43the other thing I thought about as
1:11:44you're speaking is I've been mulling
1:11:46this um I've really only in the last 2
1:11:48months this idea that if you take a
1:11:51long-term approach to things, you make
1:11:54foundational decisions today
1:11:57that create huge competitive advantages.
1:12:00And the simple analogy I would give, if
1:12:03you gave me 10 seconds to make the
1:12:04highest possible tower that I can, what
1:12:07I'm going to do is I'm going to go like
1:12:08this and I'm going to go like this and
1:12:09I'm going to try and do something like
1:12:11this and just by nature of the time
1:12:13constraint,
1:12:14it's unstable. If you gave me 10 years
1:12:17and infinite blocks again, I would start
1:12:19like this. I'd do this one here. I'd put
1:12:21this one here. I'd put this one here and
1:12:23I'd build something more stable. And
1:12:25when I look at some of the great
1:12:25founders and also when I saw that you'd
1:12:27been at your you know MicroStrategy for
1:12:29more than three, almost four decades I
1:12:30think it was, I thought, oh, you're one
1:12:33of the rare long-termists in a world
1:12:36where most of my generation, we think
1:12:37about our career or what we're working
1:12:39on in like maximum 5-year periods. Then
1:12:42we'd either quit and go do something
1:12:43else.
1:12:44Startup founders, they build so they can
1:12:46sell and then they they they're sort of
1:12:47holding it together with tape as the
1:12:49acquirer comes to buy the thing. And
1:12:51they're nervous as the contract's being
1:12:52signed cuz they know if the the acquirer
1:12:54looks under the hood they're going to
1:12:55see some but then I look at Elon
1:12:57and I go oh gosh he went and
1:12:59rebuilt a brand new battery and then
1:13:00built the charging network and SpaceX
1:13:03took two decades. My question is about
1:13:06this long-termism and does it create a
1:13:10competitive advantage?
1:13:12>> I think Elon thinks like a
1:13:14like an engineer and uh if you if you
1:13:17look at his businesses they're all built
1:13:19upon each other. Like
1:13:21if you figure out how to launch a rocket
1:13:23and you have the
1:13:25the highest payload capacity and the the
1:13:29the cheapest cost to orbit
1:13:31then you've got an advantage. Now the
1:13:32question is what do you want to put in
1:13:33orbit? We put satellites but what
1:13:35satellite? Like Starlink satellite
1:13:38because that's the thing everybody
1:13:39wants, internet. And so all of a sudden
1:13:42he's got an advantage,
1:13:44you know, in the sky and then you build
1:13:46on that advantage and you know, with
1:13:49battery technology, right? You see that?
1:13:51>> could have gone to Russia and bought a
1:13:52rocket and just shot that up and
1:13:54that would have been the short term.
1:13:55Even with Tesla he could have bought the
1:13:56batteries off Ford or
1:13:58>> One great natural example is like a
1:14:00chambered nautilus. If you look at if
1:14:02you look at a creature and it's building
1:14:04a shell and it's spiraling out on itself
1:14:07and basically it keeps building on its
1:14:09own structure and it's nature's solution
1:14:12for growth under pressure. It's the
1:14:14Fibonacci sequence too. If you look at a
1:14:16Fibonacci sequence, if I have this and
1:14:19then the next structure is here and the
1:14:20next structure is there and the next
1:14:22structure is there
1:14:24part of my previous business is the
1:14:27foundation for my next business. And so
1:14:29if you're thinking your growth strategy
1:14:31is to build on a foundation of something
1:14:33you already had and extend its
1:14:35functionality in a natural fashion
1:14:38that's natural stable growth.
1:14:41When your second business idea is
1:14:43unrelated to your first business in any
1:14:46way other than the fact that you own
1:14:48both.
1:14:49Right? Now you're not building on a
1:14:51stable foundation.
1:14:53So, most of these businesses that work
1:14:55and and the the best ideas that they
1:14:57start with someone dominating a market.
1:15:00I'm really good at this.
1:15:01>> Sounds like a bet.
1:15:02>> Yeah, and now what is the natural thing
1:15:05that I can add
1:15:06that I can use my existing business to
1:15:09to maybe I'm marketing it. Well, you're
1:15:11Coca-Cola. Well, we deliver a pallet of
1:15:14drinks to 87,000
1:15:16restaurants in the UK every morning.
1:15:19What's the natural extension? Well, I
1:15:21can put one more type of drink on the
1:15:23pallet, right? You need to use your
1:15:26distribution strength, your market
1:15:28strength, your technical strength in
1:15:31order to lever. I think you look at all
1:15:34the great businesses
1:15:36in the history of the world. I got
1:15:37Standard Oil, Ford Motor, Boeing,
1:15:39Microsoft. The things they did that
1:15:42worked were generally building on top of
1:15:46their foundation, either loyal customers
1:15:48or distribution or some financial asset
1:15:52they already had. Another way to say it
1:15:54is
1:15:55if there's no one else in the world that
1:15:58has that is better situated to do this
1:16:01thing than you,
1:16:03then you're probably in good shape,
1:16:04right? If there are 97 other companies
1:16:07that have more assets than you in that
1:16:10space, well,
1:16:13you got to bet that all 97 of them are
1:16:15not going to react to you when you do
1:16:17it. It's a bit harder. So,
1:16:19>> And that's where the long-termism comes
1:16:20in because to build that fundamental
1:16:21advantage, it it it by definition is
1:16:24going to take time.
1:16:26>> Good example,
1:16:28uh Amazon
1:16:30Prime, right? Where Amazon started
1:16:33giving free shipping, you know, first
1:16:35free shipping or very cheap shipping and
1:16:37one day shipping and and everybody said,
1:16:39"Well, while losing money. You're losing
1:16:41money. You're losing money." And they
1:16:42lost money doing this for like a decade.
1:16:45And then they got to some point where
1:16:46like everybody in the country was a
1:16:49member of Amazon Prime and then like,
1:16:51"Okay, well, now it's 20 bucks a month
1:16:53instead of 10 bucks a month." And it's
1:16:55like an extra $10 a month times like 100
1:16:58million people. And people like, "Oh my
1:17:00god, they just made $12 billion
1:17:02in one press release per year in cash
1:17:05flow.
1:17:06And that's worth like $250 billion." And
1:17:09And you're all like, "Well,
1:17:10what were you doing?" It's like, "We
1:17:12were
1:17:13We were building the moat." That story
1:17:15is not uncommon with every other thing.
1:17:18It's like you first believe,
1:17:20you build the biggest distribution
1:17:22channel you can. People are going to
1:17:24tell you They're going to tell you, "Oh,
1:17:26there's no future to whatever the
1:17:27podcast. There's no future to
1:17:29something."
1:17:31And what'll happen is 99% of people will
1:17:34drop out because they don't believe. And
1:17:36the true believers, the ones that are
1:17:38not creative, won't adapt.
1:17:41And then there'll be some that'll say,
1:17:42"I believe, but I also know there's a
1:17:44threat, but I'm going to channel the
1:17:46technology threat, and I'm going to
1:17:48evolve, and I'm going to emerge as
1:17:50something a thousand X better
1:17:52than anybody could conceive."
1:17:54And that's a beautiful story.
1:17:57>> So, speaking of strong foundations, you
1:17:58have 10 rules for young adults building
1:18:00a strong foundation for their life and
1:18:01career. And you've talked about two of
1:18:02them here, which is focusing your energy
1:18:04and not chasing every good idea.
1:18:05>> Yeah.
1:18:06>> The second one was guard your time. The
1:18:08third one is train your mind.
1:18:12And with that, you've got train your
1:18:13body.
1:18:14>> You know, the funny story of that is I I
1:18:16was invited to a cocktail party of a
1:18:18billionaire on the French Riviera in a
1:18:20beautiful home. And I showed up, and I
1:18:23walked into the party thinking I was
1:18:25going to hang out. And another
1:18:26billionaire showed up, and he said, "You
1:18:28know, Mike, I just had twins, a boy and
1:18:30a girl. And I'm walking around asking
1:18:33all of all of my friends for advice for
1:18:36them. And I want you to like write some
1:18:39advice for them that I can give to them
1:18:41on their 21st birthday.
1:18:43And he's got this book where he's
1:18:44actually collecting advice for his his
1:18:46children that to give them on their 21st
1:18:50birthday.
1:18:51As young adults. So, I sit down and I
1:18:53think think think think think and I'm
1:18:54like, focus your mind, guard your time,
1:18:58and train your mind. You got to learn
1:19:00that you got to
1:19:01learn something, right? You got to learn
1:19:03reading, writing, arithmetic. You have
1:19:05to actually develop a cultured base. So,
1:19:08I was like, get an education, and then
1:19:10train your body.
1:19:12Like, because if if you're weak, you're
1:19:14not going to make it, right? You're not
1:19:15You're not going to survive. And then,
1:19:17think for yourself. Everybody in the
1:19:19world wants to program you to believe to
1:19:22do something they want you to do.
1:19:24And you have to have the presence of
1:19:27mind to think, that's not right. Just
1:19:29because everybody that I know and
1:19:30famous, rich, and beautiful people tell
1:19:32me it's right doesn't make it right. You
1:19:34need to decide think for yourself.
1:19:37And then, curate your friends.
1:19:39Because you you know, you become who you
1:19:41surround yourself with. And if you
1:19:42surround yourself with positive uh
1:19:44inspirational, talented people,
1:19:47you'll be the best person version of
1:19:49yourself. And if you surround yourself
1:19:50with negative, cynical, failing people,
1:19:54they're going to want you to fail or
1:19:56they're not going to inspire you to
1:19:58succeed. And
1:19:59and they'll bring you down.
1:20:01And so, after curate your friends,
1:20:03curate your environment, right? Like,
1:20:06make it a happy place where you can work
1:20:08or you can live. And you know,
1:20:11the world didn't say you had to be in
1:20:13the dark and in an ugly situation. And
1:20:15And after that,
1:20:17keep your promises.
1:20:19At the end of the day, people remember
1:20:21if you didn't keep your promise. So, you
1:20:23you tell you tell someone you're going
1:20:24to do something, do it, right? If If you
1:20:27keep your promises, you'll find those
1:20:28are the people that invest in you. They
1:20:30uplift you. They make you successful.
1:20:32They may be the difference between life
1:20:34and death or the difference between
1:20:35success and failure for you and
1:20:38and ultimately, you know, we're all in
1:20:40relationships with each other, right?
1:20:42And and no one is so powerful that they
1:20:46can afford to take anybody else for
1:20:47granted.
1:20:49We all need each other and and um
1:20:52finally,
1:20:54stay cheerful and constructive. It
1:20:55doesn't matter whether bad things
1:20:57happen. The point is people want to come
1:20:59to work with someone that's cheerful and
1:21:01happy and constructive. They want to,
1:21:03you know, they want to be in a
1:21:04relationship with that person. All those
1:21:07are just basic principles to get through
1:21:10life and then the final point is upgrade
1:21:12the world. If you have a plan, if you're
1:21:14on a mission to upgrade the world,
1:21:17you're going to feel better about
1:21:18yourself. You get up every day, you have
1:21:20a mission, you have something to do.
1:21:21Like, what is my mission?
1:21:23You know, I'm preaching the gospel of
1:21:25digital empowerment, right? Satoshi
1:21:29created
1:21:30this
1:21:32economic property right. He gave
1:21:34economic empowerment to 8 billion people
1:21:36for the first time in human history.
1:21:38And we created the world's first perfect
1:21:40money. We created, you know,
1:21:43digital energy, digital matter, digital
1:21:46property, right? We can be a thousand X
1:21:50more as as humans with technology than
1:21:54we were.
1:21:55I look through all human history and I
1:21:57see it's a story of misery.
1:22:01You know, why do people die? Lack of
1:22:02clean water, lack of clean air, lack of
1:22:05clean food, lack of clean money.
1:22:08What do we want? We want to live
1:22:10forever. We want to live happily
1:22:11forever.
1:22:12>> Do you want to live forever?
1:22:14>> I want to live as long as I can live in,
1:22:16you know, constructively and make a
1:22:18contribution. If if I could be if I can
1:22:21be engaged and vital, then yeah. At the
1:22:24point that I can no longer make a
1:22:25contribution,
1:22:27uh then I will move on gracefully.
1:22:29>> But if there was a button in front of
1:22:30you now, and the button, pressing it
1:22:32guaranteed you immortality, would you
1:22:34press it?
1:22:34>> I think so. I suppose so.
1:22:36>> Why aren't you then committing more of
1:22:38your efforts to longevity? People ask
1:22:40Elon the same question.
1:22:42>> I think
1:22:44there's 8 billion people on the planet,
1:22:46and there are many people that I respect
1:22:48that are much more qualified to pursue
1:22:49that mission than me.
1:22:51>> And the thing that you've chosen to
1:22:52focus your efforts on and become the
1:22:54leading voice on, and I've watched you
1:22:55for many, many, many, many years as
1:22:56I've, you know, when Bitcoin comes down
1:22:58in price and when sometimes I need a bit
1:23:00of a therapist to
1:23:01remind me of why I've invested in
1:23:03Bitcoin, and that person has been you
1:23:04over the years.
1:23:05And then when it's up, you know, you're
1:23:07you're
1:23:08to your credit you're consistent about
1:23:09it. And that is,
1:23:11you know, I I have watched you and
1:23:13thought, I think this guy must be he's
1:23:14either like batshit crazy or a genius.
1:23:17And it's sometimes hard to tell. And it
1:23:18goes back to what you were saying
1:23:19earlier when people will say you're
1:23:20crazy at first, and and then you'll be
1:23:22proven right. Now, historically you've
1:23:24been proven right.
1:23:25>> If you if you zoom out from when you
1:23:26started advocating for Bitcoin,
1:23:28Bitcoin is down right now. So again,
1:23:30we're back into fear. People are scared
1:23:32again in that It's funny what happens
1:23:34because when it was going up a couple of
1:23:35months ago, everyone thought, "Oh my
1:23:36god, this is going to be the future of
1:23:38money." And now it's down, everyone is
1:23:40like convinced that it's it was always a
1:23:41Ponzi scheme and it's it's done. You've
1:23:44got a
1:23:45I guess trying trying to simplify this
1:23:46for average people, you've taken a lot
1:23:48of debt out to buy more and more and
1:23:50more and more and more Bitcoin.
1:23:52Is that accurate?
1:23:54>> I guess we've got about 6 and 1/2
1:23:55billion dollars of convertible debt and
1:23:5715 billion dollars of preferred stocks
1:23:59outstanding, and we're sitting on top of
1:24:01about 58 billion dollars of assets right
1:24:04now. So, we have raised
1:24:07about 65 billion dollars in capital to
1:24:09buy Bitcoin, but most of it was in debt.
1:24:11>> Okay.
1:24:12>> Of the 65 billion, for the most part
1:24:15we've raised capital with equity and
1:24:17some debt in order to buy Bitcoin, and
1:24:20we've been doing that because we wanted
1:24:22to pump 65 billion dollars of capital,
1:24:26of money, of energy into the ecosystem.
1:24:28So, we're we're powering the ecosystem
1:24:31with capital.
1:24:32>> Everyone theorizes, I've seen a few
1:24:33people on my timeline that I follow
1:24:35theorize how bad it would have to get
1:24:36for Bitcoin in terms of price for you to
1:24:38be in trouble. Because you have a lot
1:24:40>> Bitcoin could fall to $5,000 a coin, we
1:24:42would still be over collateralized
1:24:44against the debt.
1:24:45>> You'd still be fine.
1:24:46>> Yeah.
1:24:47>> And the other thing people theorize a
1:24:48lot, and I again I did a comment
1:24:49analysis to figure out what people want
1:24:50to hear from you, is you sold a bit of
1:24:52Bitcoin.
1:24:53You've been asked this a few times, I
1:24:54know.
1:24:54>> Yeah.
1:24:54>> You sold a bit of Bitcoin recently after
1:24:58telling a lot of people maybe to hold on
1:24:59to their Bitcoin.
1:25:01People want to know why you sold the
1:25:02Bitcoin.
1:25:03>> Okay. Well, so let's make the first
1:25:04point.
1:25:07The only person that's never sold more
1:25:10Bitcoin than me
1:25:11>> Satoshi.
1:25:12>> is Satoshi.
1:25:13Satoshi never sold a million a million
1:25:16one Bitcoin.
1:25:18Our company has 847,000 Bitcoin. And so,
1:25:21we bought more and we're holding it more
1:25:23than anybody other than Satoshi and
1:25:25Satoshi's not active. So, we have a
1:25:27reasonable chance of of never selling
1:25:30more Bitcoin than Satoshi if we just
1:25:31keep at it for the next few years.
1:25:33Um what I've said is um
1:25:36>> So, I should probably share this. This
1:25:37is This is why there's a kidney.
1:25:39>> Yeah.
1:25:39>> Cuz you said sell the kidney if you
1:25:40must, but keep the Bitcoin.
1:25:41>> I I have I have waged a campaign
1:25:44non-stop every day for 6 years to to
1:25:48promote and advocate Bitcoin as a
1:25:51long-term store of value. Right? And and
1:25:54what I would say is if you have money
1:25:56that you don't need for the next 4 years
1:25:59and your choice is do I invest it in the
1:26:01S&P or a house or a private company or
1:26:04soybeans or money markets or debt
1:26:07instruments
1:26:09I think that Bitcoin is the best. Right?
1:26:11I think that Bitcoin is digital capital.
1:26:13It's going to be the best long-term
1:26:14capital asset.
1:26:16And uh you know
1:26:18>> So, why did you sell the Bitcoin instead
1:26:19of your kidney?
1:26:21>> Yeah. Um
1:26:23We sold some Bitcoin a few weeks ago
1:26:26because there was a narrative or a
1:26:28belief in the market that our company
1:26:31had become so systemically integrated or
1:26:33important to Bitcoin that we could never
1:26:36sell.
1:26:37And if we sold Bitcoin would go to zero
1:26:40and our stock would go to zero.
1:26:42>> Because you own 4% of the total supply
1:26:44of Bitcoin.
1:26:44>> We own 4% because we're the biggest
1:26:47buyer We're the biggest buyer of Bitcoin
1:26:49in the world. So the first sentiment was
1:26:51well Bitcoin will never succeed if they
1:26:53don't keep buying. And the second
1:26:55sentiment or belief
1:26:57uh misconception was if we sell it'll
1:27:00crash Bitcoin and it'll crash the
1:27:02company.
1:27:03And because of that short sellers and
1:27:06and certain people in the market took
1:27:08the position that the $55 billion of
1:27:11Bitcoin we own was worth nothing.
1:27:14And so what we had was this ignorant
1:27:18uh skeptical notion that all of the
1:27:21company's assets were worthless.
1:27:23And because the company's assets were
1:27:25worthless we wouldn't pay our dividends
1:27:27and because we wouldn't pay our
1:27:28dividends the credit would go to zero
1:27:30and the equity would go to zero. The
1:27:31company would fail and the coin fail.
1:27:34And we said well Bitcoin is trades $20
1:27:38billion a day or more and we've got 55
1:27:41billion of it and if we were
1:27:430.01% of the market we could still meet
1:27:45all of our obligations and it's not
1:27:47going to change the price of Bitcoin but
1:27:48no one believed us.
1:27:50So if if you want people to believe that
1:27:53you can do a thing you have to do the
1:27:55thing. If you told me you could do a
1:27:56backflip right now but I said you you
1:27:59can't at some point you have to do the
1:28:00backflip. Right? Especially if I tell
1:28:03you that I'm going to throw you in jail
1:28:05if you can't do a backflip.
1:28:07>> Who told you that?
1:28:08>> Well that's exactly what's going on in
1:28:09the market. The market's position was
1:28:11the company is worthless. the stock is
1:28:13going to zero, Bitcoin is going to zero
1:28:15because they can't sell, right?
1:28:17So, if we want to defend Bitcoin,
1:28:21like we have to prove that we can sell
1:28:24it on occasion, right? So,
1:28:26what we're doing is we're
1:28:28commercializing the market in digital
1:28:31credit. And if you have a billion
1:28:33dollars of Bitcoin and they believe it's
1:28:35worth a billion, you can sell 200
1:28:37million dollars of credit and then you
1:28:39can grow the business if they believe
1:28:41that. If they don't believe
1:28:44that the Bitcoin is worth anything, you
1:28:45can't and you sell the 200 million of
1:28:47credit, the credit's worthless and the
1:28:49company's worthless.
1:28:50And so, we were in a doom loop or the
1:28:52market was in this doom loop this this
1:28:55negative short I don't know, like a
1:28:59psychosis almost like hyperventilating
1:29:02saying that the largest buyer of Bitcoin
1:29:05can't sell it and if they do sell it,
1:29:07Bitcoin will fail. And what we needed to
1:29:10do was demonstrate that if we sold
1:29:12Bitcoin, it wouldn't fail.
1:29:13So, when we sold the Bitcoin, it was 60
1:29:1659,000 and it traded up. And so, we
1:29:18broke that misconception, we broke that
1:29:22that narrative.
1:29:23It turns out that the break-even point
1:29:25for us is about 3.2%, so if Bitcoin
1:29:28appreciates 3.2%, we can pay the
1:29:30dividends forever by just selling the
1:29:32Bitcoin.
1:29:33But you can imagine if you're a short
1:29:34seller, you say, "Well, you can't sell
1:29:36the Bitcoin, hahaha, because Bitcoin
1:29:38will fail." And so, they want to say
1:29:40that the credit is worthless because you
1:29:42won't sell the Bitcoin. So, the way to
1:29:44break that cycle is you sell the
1:29:45Bitcoin.
1:29:46Now you can illustrate that the credit
1:29:48is actually good credit, we can pay the
1:29:51dividends forever and now the credit
1:29:52investors
1:29:54>> without having to sell more Bitcoin.
1:29:55>> No, the whole point of this was
1:29:58we were selling equity in order to pay
1:30:01the dividend on the credit.
1:30:03>> Yeah.
1:30:03>> And the short sellers took the position
1:30:05that you're going to sell the equity
1:30:07until the stock goes to zero
1:30:09because you can't sell the Bitcoin.
1:30:10>> Yeah.
1:30:11>> So, how do you actually get How do you
1:30:13break that? Well, you have to say
1:30:16well, we can sell the Bitcoin.
1:30:17>> And you sold enough Bitcoin to pay the
1:30:19dividend.
1:30:19>> So, we sold enough Bitcoin to pay the
1:30:21dividend, to prove that we could fund
1:30:23the dividends with Bitcoin, which means
1:30:25we don't have to sell the equity. And if
1:30:27if we don't have to sell the equity,
1:30:28then the equity trades at a premium to
1:30:30Bitcoin, trades rationally, and then the
1:30:32credit trades rationally. So, it was a
1:30:35benefit to the equity investors and the
1:30:37credit investors to show that you can
1:30:39power the company with Bitcoin.
1:30:41>> Do you Do you intend to sell more?
1:30:44>> It's not our primary strategy. So, if
1:30:48the if the the common stock trades at a
1:30:51premium
1:30:52to the underlying assets, then probably
1:30:54we fund with the common stock. But, if
1:30:56the common stock ever sells at a
1:30:58discount or trades at a discount to the
1:31:00common to the Bitcoin assets, then you
1:31:02sell Bitcoin in order to protect the
1:31:03common stock.
1:31:04>> And what do you think Bitcoin's going in
1:31:05terms of monetary value? In terms of one
1:31:07Bitcoin. Currently, what did you say
1:31:09it's worth? 68,000 or something?
1:31:11>> I think it'll appreciate about 30% a
1:31:13year for the next 20 years.
1:31:16Right? And then it'll slow down to being
1:31:18appreciated about 20% a year. So,
1:31:21>> You think it's the best asset to put
1:31:22your money in really it really
1:31:23respective of
1:31:25who you are?
1:31:26>> Another way to say it is I think it a
1:31:27pre- I think it outperforms the S&P
1:31:29index by a factor of
1:31:331.5 to 2.
1:31:34>> Who shouldn't invest in Bitcoin?
1:31:37>> The right people to invest in Bitcoin
1:31:38are long-term capital investors. So, if
1:31:40you have a certain amount of money
1:31:43and you don't need it for the next 4
1:31:45years
1:31:46and ideally 10 years, then you would
1:31:48take a portion of your capital
1:31:50investment portfolio and buy Bitcoin.
1:31:53And if you believe in it, if you're a a
1:31:55Bitcoin maxi, if you spend 100 hours
1:31:57studying it,
1:31:59uh you'd buy a lot.
1:32:00And if you're not sure, you'd probably
1:32:03diversify that portfolio across, you
1:32:06know, some real estate, some equity,
1:32:09some other long-term assets, and some
1:32:12Bitcoin.
1:32:13The people that shouldn't buy it are
1:32:14people that need the money back in 12
1:32:16weeks.
1:32:17>> What about like a regular 25-year-old?
1:32:19Um
1:32:20One of the questions that I saw emerging
1:32:22from some of the interviews you've done
1:32:23is if if a normal young person has a few
1:32:25hundred dollars to invest today,
1:32:27why should they bother with Wall Street
1:32:29products like stocks or corporate stocks
1:32:31instead of just buying a real Bitcoin
1:32:33and holding it themselves?
1:32:36>> Yeah, I think if you have money to
1:32:37invest for the long term, you're going
1:32:39to get double the performance from BTC
1:32:42that you would get from like the S&P
1:32:44index.
1:32:44>> But for that 25-year-old, would would it
1:32:46not be smarter for them to spend it on
1:32:48something that's going to help them
1:32:49train their mind, like you said?
1:32:52If you only have a hundred dollars.
1:32:53>> I wouldn't go spend five hundred
1:32:55thousand dollars on an expensive, you
1:32:57know, university education, but I would
1:32:59spend twenty bucks a month on an AI
1:33:02subscription. So So yeah, you should
1:33:04definitely spend money necessary to get
1:33:06the
1:33:07the super grok or the pro or the
1:33:10professional edition, whether it's, you
1:33:12know, twenty dollars a month or two
1:33:14hundred dollars Two hundred dollars a
1:33:15month is the most I would spend. Twenty
1:33:18dollars a month is probably the least I
1:33:20would spend. But look, we're talking
1:33:22about your Netflix subscription at that
1:33:23point. But I
1:33:25after you've done that, then you're
1:33:27talking about what you ought to be
1:33:29invested in.
1:33:30I think that the that you ought to be
1:33:32invested in digital capital cuz you can
1:33:34take it with you anywhere in the world.
1:33:37If you invest in an Airbnb or real
1:33:39estate, you know, you're you're locked
1:33:41into a certain city. You can't travel
1:33:43with it. It's high maintenance. There's
1:33:44a lot of risk. If you invest in an
1:33:47individual stock, you have a lot of
1:33:48anxiety because they come and they go,
1:33:50and you got to pick the right stock. And
1:33:52most stocks will fail, but some will
1:33:53succeed, but but it it really is much
1:33:57more challenging.
1:33:59I I think really it comes down to
1:34:02if you have a liquid portfolio,
1:34:04you know, are you going to invest in
1:34:06like the S&P index if you're a
1:34:08conventional capital investor, or you're
1:34:10going to invest in Bitcoin if you're a
1:34:11digital or a you know, a a a technology
1:34:14capital investor.
1:34:17>> Michael, we have a closing tradition
1:34:18where the last guest leaves a question
1:34:19for the next guest not knowing who
1:34:20they're leaving it for. And the question
1:34:21left for you is what is one thing you
1:34:24believe that maybe you haven't talked
1:34:26about enough
1:34:27that you think likely 99% of the world
1:34:30don't yet believe.
1:34:34>> If I look at my life and I think about
1:34:36something that's been that's had a real
1:34:38impact on me, it's after I got a full
1:34:41education,
1:34:42you know, uh
1:34:44from college, I
1:34:46I eventually
1:34:47went back and I studied two topics on my
1:34:50own.
1:34:51One, uh like practical applied
1:34:53statistics, all the stuff that Nicholas
1:34:55Taleb wrote, like Fooled by Randomness
1:34:57and Skin in the Game and The Black Swan.
1:35:00And uh you know, how do you know the
1:35:02difference between something that's
1:35:04meaningful and something that's just
1:35:05misleading random data. That was
1:35:07profoundly valuable to me and I would
1:35:10say, you know, anybody that hasn't read
1:35:13all of those books probably ought to go
1:35:15read those books and and obsess over
1:35:19uh applied statistics.
1:35:22That's the one thing that AI will not be
1:35:23able to do for you when you have to
1:35:25decide whether to cross the street while
1:35:26you're typing on your phone, that you
1:35:28know,
1:35:29the AI will not give you a never-ending
1:35:32real-time stream of common sense to tell
1:35:36you you should or should not do that
1:35:38thing. And so I I think that that's
1:35:40really important. And the second thing
1:35:41that I did after I left school and and
1:35:44after a a lifetime of experiences,
1:35:48like I went back and I just read uh
1:35:51The Story of Civilization by Durant.
1:35:54Every page.
1:35:5511 volumes, 14,000
1:35:58pages. Most of the history that you read
1:36:01in school, it's the CliffNotes.
1:36:03But if you go through the entire thing,
1:36:06and I recommend that one just cuz I
1:36:08think it was a pretty well-balanced
1:36:10history that covered art and culture and
1:36:12politics and technology, and
1:36:14it's not just military history, not just
1:36:17political history, but it was
1:36:19you know, all
1:36:21a very synthetic history.
1:36:23When you go back and you read it all
1:36:25as an adult,
1:36:28then it gives you such a profound
1:36:30appreciation for humanity, and it gives
1:36:33you so much wisdom. And what you'll find
1:36:35is all these things you think you're
1:36:36discovering, they got discovered in like
1:36:3915th century Russia. And then they got
1:36:41rediscovered, you know, like most of
1:36:43these things that people tell you are
1:36:46this is new and profound. Oh, it's new
1:36:48and profound 100 times in a row, or
1:36:501,000 times in a row. It's just the the
1:36:52story was told a different way each
1:36:54time.
1:36:54>> Give me an example of a a thing
1:36:56that we think is new, but history tells
1:36:58you
1:36:58>> Maybe the fact that currency started
1:37:00getting debased when Nixon went off the
1:37:02gold standard, you know, and
1:37:04what happened in 1971, or whatever. And
1:37:08the truth of the matter is that was the
1:37:10point at which the US dollar started
1:37:13weakening at a much more rapid rate.
1:37:16But it turns out that every currency
1:37:18everywhere in history has been debased.
1:37:21My point here really is uh
1:37:25I think people think that they that they
1:37:27learn stuff in college,
1:37:29but really it's not too late to go back
1:37:32and relearn math, especially applied
1:37:34statistics, and it's not too late to go
1:37:36back and relearn history. And as an
1:37:39adult,
1:37:40you always appreciate those things much
1:37:42better.
1:37:43Yeah, you almost it's like the education
1:37:46is wasted on the youth.
1:37:48You know, because you don't you don't
1:37:49have the life experiences to appreciate
1:37:52what you're reading.
1:37:54But also, you know, they're they're
1:37:57summarizing, editing, and censoring a
1:37:59lot of the stuff you read.
1:38:01And and if you just go back and say I'm
1:38:04just going to, you know, read the entire
1:38:06thing in its entirety. And
1:38:07there are a lot of other things you
1:38:08could also read, full histories of other
1:38:11things, but
1:38:12as an adult
1:38:15I think that that just makes you a
1:38:16better person and makes you a better
1:38:18business person, makes you a better
1:38:19leader. And also, it helps you overcome
1:38:22the arrogance of thinking, oh, I'm the
1:38:25first guy in human history that ever
1:38:28encountered it. And and what you'll
1:38:30realize is no, you're not. And the
1:38:33empowering part is someone else did and
1:38:35this is how they worked their way
1:38:36through the issue. And and that can be
1:38:38very inspirational for you.
1:38:41>> Michael, [snorts] thank you. Thank you
1:38:42for taking the time. Thank you for
1:38:43opening all of our eyes. And thank you
1:38:45for
1:38:46building a business which has continued
1:38:48to innovate in such a way that people
1:38:50never thought was possible. Thank you
1:38:52for introducing me to Bitcoin.
1:38:54I think you both introduced me to it,
1:38:55but also you enabled me to have a mental
1:38:58framework for not selling it. When
1:39:02if I had, I would have lost a lot of
1:39:03money. And thankfully now I don't even
1:39:05know where it is. My brother my brother
1:39:07and some of my siblings take care of it
1:39:08for me. And I don't have to experience
1:39:11the angst. And also just thank you for
1:39:13pushing for this idea of sovereignty
1:39:15because I think
1:39:16in the world of increasing censorship
1:39:18and centralization,
1:39:20sovereignty I think is a really winning
1:39:21idea. And I think that's what you're
1:39:23sort of philosophically aiming at as
1:39:24well. And um
1:39:26>> [snorts]
1:39:26>> yeah, I hope to speak to you sometime
1:39:27soon because you're a very you're an an
1:39:29individual capable of speaking about
1:39:31such a broad range of subjects that I
1:39:32care so much about.
1:39:33>> It's a pleasure to be on the journey
1:39:35together.
1:39:35>> Thank you, my friend.
1:39:36YouTube have this new crazy algorithm
1:39:38where they know exactly what video you
1:39:40would like to watch next based on AI and
1:39:43all of your viewing behavior and the
1:39:44algorithm says that this video is the
1:39:47perfect video for you. It's different
1:39:49for everybody looking right now. Check
1:39:51this video out. I bet you you might love
1:39:53it.

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