YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → The Local SEO Playbook Behind a Law Firm Doing $100M in 6 Months | Matt Hammerton

The Local SEO Playbook Behind a Law Firm Doing $100M in 6 Months | Matt Hammerton — Transcript

by Edward Sturm · 19,676 words · 2,733 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00Matt, welcome to the podcast. I I'm
0:02probably going to butcher this a little
0:03bit. This is from your text to me.
0:05>> Uh I'm so excited to have you. And so
0:07you you told me you've made $100 million
0:10the first half of this year. You've
0:12owned stakes in eight home service
0:14companies and managed more than 100
0:17Google business profiles along with
0:20their websites. You've you're
0:22specializing in personal injury law.
0:24You've been doing SEO since 2009 and you
0:28have produced music for some of the
0:30biggest names in hip hop. Let's go. Oh.
0:33Oh, and you're you're you're a listener
0:35of the podcast. Let's go. Big listener.
0:37Let's go. I'm so excited.
0:39>> I'm I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan. Um
0:42yeah, I I watch you I watch you pretty
0:44much every day. Um, my my ritual during
0:47the week is I I hit the gym and then I
0:49hit Starbucks afterwards and I watch
0:51your stuff and then about halfway
0:52through normally I take that and I put
0:54it into Manis and transcribe it and then
0:56have it add any knowledge that it wants
0:58to my certain tasks, you know what I
1:00mean? Uh, my certain operations in
1:02there. So, yeah, every day. And then the
1:04100 million thing is actually just the
1:06the uh the one log group that uh that I
1:09work for right now. That's what they did
1:10in the first six months this year.
1:11>> Okay. So I'm I'm I'm their I'm their
1:14SEO. It's definitely a ramp up from
1:16where they were at before. So um yeah,
1:18so I've helped them pretty much conquer
1:20this this area. Um you know, in a matter
1:23of
1:24>> how much how much are how much of their
1:25success is from SEO? A good amount.
1:28>> A a a big chunk. A big chunk. A big
1:30chunk. They run a lot of ads, too, and
1:31stuff like that, too. Of course, all
1:32lawyers, you got to you got to run a lot
1:34of ads um in pretty much in any space
1:36right now. But uh yeah. Yeah, they they
1:39run a lot of ads as well. But yeah, SEO
1:40has been a big part of that success. For
1:42sure. For sure.
1:44>> And and you're Yeah, you're crazy niche
1:46down into personal injury law and and
1:49managing more than a hundred or you have
1:51managed more than a hundred Google
1:54business profiles.
1:56>> Insane. Yeah.
1:57>> Yeah. So, personal injury um that the uh
2:01the majority of my uh Google business
2:03profiles uh are in home service uh
2:05companies that I own a percentage of. I
2:07basically have gotten sweat equity from
2:10marketing. So now I'm I got I got put
2:12into the companies and own a percentage
2:13of them. Um so I have about actually
2:17over 100 probably about 115 right now.
2:19We we we we make about 5 to 10 new ones
2:22a month. Um so if if we start a new
2:25brand, we'll start a new brand and we'll
2:28do at least 10 GBPs just for that brand.
2:31Um normally within the first six weeks.
2:33Um, so we we create one one main brand
2:37and then we create um three or four
2:40supporting brands that basically are are
2:41like lead genen for ourselves. So So
2:45we'll have the main brand that we work
2:46on as like the long-term brand and then
2:47we have basically the the lead genen
2:49brands that you have to get extra
2:51contractors license. You have to do all
2:52that stuff and and everything. But uh
2:55it's it's it's worth it cuz then we end
2:56up with about 40 GBPs in in one niche um
2:59in one area. Are you managing all of
3:02those Google business profiles and and
3:04are there do you face limitations when
3:06setting them up?
3:08>> Um there's a lot there's a lot of
3:10problems when setting them up. We've
3:11created an entire system just for
3:13setting them up. So uh we created a
3:15program developed a program that that
3:18actually oper has the operation of where
3:20that where that listing is at. Do we
3:22have the proper stuff for it yet?
3:24because you have to get the signage and
3:25and rent the building and and do all the
3:27things you got to do to to
3:29>> You're doing all of that.
3:31>> Yeah. Yeah. We I have I have a partner
3:32in in on that. Yep. Yep. And he he helps
3:35with a lot of that end. Um I most I
3:37mostly do the SEO end, but I assist
3:38obviously in that as well. Um and yeah,
3:41it's it's going it's going pretty well.
3:43It's going pretty well. Um but yeah, so
3:46I I manage I manage a lot of GBPs. Um
3:49and it's it's it's it's a lot. It's a
3:52lot,
3:53>> man. And and you said, uh, yeah, most of
3:56your time though is spent is spent
3:58growing your own businesses.
4:00>> Yeah. Yeah. The majority of it spent on
4:02that. Um, I just got into the personal
4:04injury thing a couple years ago. I
4:06honestly didn't start taking clients
4:07until about 3 or 4 years ago. Um, I was
4:11I was just doing my own thing the whole
4:12time. Um, so I I just decided I was
4:16like, well, I might as well just start
4:17getting some clients. So, I started
4:18getting other home service clients at
4:20first. And uh just the the dollar value
4:23is not not big enough in most cases to
4:26actually even give this proper service,
4:28you know, and 2 3,000 bucks a month is
4:30is really tough to to provide really
4:32what they need, you know, um in a lot of
4:35cases. So, when I got introduced to the
4:37personal injury space, it was like,
4:38okay, this is this is real. Okay, they
4:40got a big enough budget to work with.
4:42And
4:42>> what what are the budget what are the
4:43budgets that you get?
4:45um personal injury is normally anywhere
4:46between 15 and 30,000 a month um in in
4:49most cases from from what I've seen. So
4:52um with that and then they they'll
4:53normally pay for things too if you need
4:54if they need things if you tell them
4:55they need things they just they just do
4:57it you know in most cases. Um and they
5:00also have admin to help and assist. So
5:02that's that's another big thing in
5:03personal injury. I've noticed the
5:05difference between working with
5:06corporate and working with contractors
5:08is they have a lot more admin to help
5:11carry out certain things that need to
5:13happen, you know, um whether it be
5:15signing up to try to get awards or
5:17getting press. They have they have
5:19people on the press press game and stuff
5:21like that. So, um you don't necessarily
5:23have to take care of every little thing
5:25for them, you know, as well, which is
5:28which is very helpful.
5:30>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and and uh this method
5:33of marketing is so effective, I had to
5:35make sure it wasn't against Google's
5:36rules before I kept using it. It's a
5:38form of SEO I call compact keywords.
5:41Whereas most SEO focuses on putting up
5:43articles to answer questions, how, what,
5:45when, compact keywords focuses on
5:47putting up dozens of pages that sell to
5:49searchers who are actually looking to
5:52buy. These pages rank on Google and
5:54convert so much better than normal that
5:56when I discovered this years ago, I
5:58couldn't believe this was allowed. It's
5:59less work, too. The average Compact
6:01Keywords landing page is only 415 words.
6:04Compact Keywords is a 13-hour deep
6:07course on getting sales with SEO. A
6:09customer said, "We spent nearly 18,000
6:12in the last year and a half on marketing
6:13and SEO through different agencies
6:15locally, and that did nothing. We
6:17decided to take the leap on the compact
6:19keywords course. We're now getting about
6:216 to eight calls per day on a good day,
6:23which is just unheard of." Another
6:25customer said, "Give it to a junior
6:27employee. have them follow it exactly as
6:30Edwards laid out. You don't have to do
6:32anything and you're going to gain a
6:34six-f figureure SEO level employee just
6:36by having them go through this course.
6:38Compact Keywords is about setting up an
6:40SEO funnel that brings you sales for
6:42years and years and years. It works with
6:44AI. It's less work than traditional SEO
6:47and it makes way more money. You can get
6:50it now at compactkeywords.com.
6:52Back to the podcast. Do you think
6:54personal injury law is for SEO is as
6:58difficult as the industry says it is?
7:02>> No.
7:03>> No.
7:03>> You know, and it's crazy because I think
7:05personal injury law has the highest cost
7:07per clicks.
7:08>> Yeah. Yeah. I obviously it depends on
7:12the city of course you know um any major
7:14metro is going to be somewhat difficult
7:16but um for example uh for the biggest
7:19car accident lawyer terms the site I've
7:22been working on recently they were never
7:24in the top 20 or 30 and it only took me
7:26about 2 or 3 months to get them to
7:28number two which is only underneath like
7:30super lawyers or you know those
7:32directory sites that you can't really
7:33pass up um pretty much you know every
7:36once in a while you can beat them but
7:37it's really hard to to beat a a site
7:39that authorative.
7:40Uh but yeah, it's it's not any harder
7:42than I'm I'm in the locksmith game. Um
7:45and that game is actually a little bit
7:47tougher um in some ways. And then the
7:50home service game can be tougher, too,
7:51because you got guys with 12,000
7:53reviews, not just
7:55500 reviews. You know, you got you got
7:58monsters, you know, people who have been
7:59around a long time. Um there's so many
8:01so many injury lawyers with that many
8:02reviews. It's not it it's not quite as
8:04extreme.
8:05>> Let's let's start with Google Business
8:06Profile. and you set up a new GBP, what
8:10uh what are the most important factors?
8:12What are the things that you have to get
8:14right and and yeah, and then what and
8:16what do you actually do to get them
8:17right? Um, honestly, you know, you know,
8:20I do the basics, of course, obviously
8:21making sure the services are right,
8:23making sure uh their categories are
8:25picked correctly. But what it comes down
8:26to, the funny thing is some people think
8:28I'm crazy, but the reality is is it's
8:30it's all about reviews at the end of the
8:32game. I' I've had beat GBPs that were
8:34set up horribly did, you know, and and
8:37you know, maybe they were put up really
8:38quickly by us and we just weren't paying
8:40attention at first and we got it a ton
8:42of reviews, did all the other right
8:43things and it didn't matter at all. It
8:45it doesn't it if you have the right if
8:47you have the right review count and the
8:48right keywords within the reviews if if
8:51your if your clients are leaving getting
8:52the right things in there, pictures and
8:54whatnot. Um, and then even if it's not
8:57attached to a website, sometimes it
8:59doesn't even have to have a website.
9:01Like if I've literally won areas with
9:03with no website attached at all. So um
9:06that's not what I prefer. That's not
9:07>> just by having by because you had great
9:10reviews.
9:11>> Yeah. Yeah. The the the G the GBP
9:13ranking system is is so based on that a
9:16little bit of third party, you know what
9:18I mean, too. I it does pay attention to
9:19Yelp and the stuff that it shows in the
9:22uh also on the web, you know, they're on
9:24the profile. You got to pay attention to
9:25those and try to get reviews on those.
9:27Now, obviously in the AI game, that is
9:28the whole AI game, at least in in home
9:31services and and from what I've seen
9:32from legal as well. Um, but yeah, you
9:35know, you know, the basic stuff, just
9:37just making sure the right categories
9:38are there, making sure the right
9:39services are there. If you fill out the
9:40description for the services, you can or
9:42you can't. I have never really seen a up
9:44or a down on that necessarily. Um, but
9:47honestly the only thing that ever I've
9:48seen move the needle is is is reviews
9:50and and obviously links to a landing
9:52page and the landing page being proper
9:54changing the h, you know, that instant
9:56gratification you get when you change
9:58someone's metatitle sometimes because
9:59they don't have the city in it or they
10:01don't have the main keyword in it or
10:03something like that. But besides those
10:04major things, you don't normally notice
10:06large super upticks besides when you get
10:09more reviews or get negative reviews
10:10removed. That's that's that's just as
10:13big as getting new reviews because that
10:17uh that average rating is just as
10:19important as the amount of reviews by
10:22far. Um just recently we had a location
10:26for um for for a lawyer that they they
10:29were just stuck. Couldn't get him to
10:31move at all. And I I couldn't figure it
10:32out. We had every every other aspect we
10:34were killing all the competition. It
10:35didn't make any sense. More links, more
10:37everything, right? And the only thing
10:40was they had they had 80 80 one-st star
10:43reviews although they had thousands of
10:45positive reviews and the other companies
10:48didn't even have a thousand reviews at
10:49all. We we just couldn't move. We just
10:51couldn't get out of that pocket. So um I
10:54hired we hired this company called
10:56Removify and they uh they removed about
10:59four of them and just shot up just
11:02instantaneously. Yeah. four just four
11:04negative reviews gone and it changed the
11:06entire
11:06>> Did you expect that or was it
11:07unexpected?
11:09>> Well, I I knew it was going to happen
11:10because we had we had we had tipped the
11:12scales prior um from getting new
11:15reviews. We tipped it from a 4.8 to a
11:184.9 sometime in March and I saw it
11:20happen cuz I I I do my scans um every 3
11:24to 5 days.
11:25>> It's
11:27uh Bright Local. I just use Bright Local
11:29but but I but I I scan them constantly.
11:32I don't I don't do it once a month. I do
11:33it cuz I want to know what happened. I
11:35want to be able to pinpoint what I did,
11:37what I was doing, and why it happened,
11:40you know? So, uh, we're doing it that
11:43way. So, I knew the exact dates when it
11:44happened, and I was like, oh, we
11:45actually had a 4.9 for that quick little
11:493-week period or, you know what I mean?
11:51And so I was like, so that was we like
11:53finally found the reason why that
11:54listing was stuck, you know, and and so
11:58we've been trying so hard to get that
12:00balance, but you know, obviously getting
12:01positive reviews, you have to get 40 or
12:0450 or whatever for every one negative
12:06one. So that takes takes some time, you
12:08know. Um, and then when Google came
12:10through and removed a bunch of reviews
12:11from everybody there, it it brought us
12:13back down to the 4.8. Um, but then when
12:16we got those removed, bang, right back
12:18up. So yeah, h having the average star
12:21rating, even if you have a ton of
12:22reviews, you would you would think
12:24they'd try to reward you a little better
12:26because you have so many, you know, but
12:29uh the average star rating is still so
12:31huge. So huge.
12:32>> You have a system for reviews for
12:34getting positive reviews. You just
12:36talked about getting negative reviews
12:38removed.
12:39>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I when you do it on
12:42your own, you know, you just want to
12:43report it yourself. And then what we'll
12:45do is we'll normally report ourselves
12:47through the main account and then we'll
12:48report it through a lot of local guide
12:50accounts that we have access to uh
12:52through people and then also our own
12:54account. So normally average of 10 or 20
12:56and sometimes that'll get rid of it. Um
12:59but when it doesn't get rid of it, you
13:00want to hire somebody like a Remify or
13:02somebody else that'll do whatever they
13:04do. Honestly, I'm not really sure what
13:06magic sauce they put in there, but uh
13:08they did something that we weren't
13:09doing.
13:10So, um, not not trying to plug them
13:13extra, but I I I am excited that they
13:15were actually able to do something, you
13:17know, uh, we weren't able to do there.
13:19So,
13:19>> how about forgetting how about
13:20forgetting reviews?
13:22>> Forget Lots of people have different
13:24different systems for getting reviews.
13:25I've had many SEOs on the show talk
13:27about them, but
13:28>> yeah,
13:28>> I think everyone's doing something a
13:30little bit different.
13:32>> Yeah. Yeah. When if you're in the if
13:33you're in the home service industry,
13:34it's a lot about the technicians.
13:35Technicians have to be good at
13:38persuading reviews. You know, they have
13:40to be good at, you know, uh, convincing
13:42the customer that, you know, they if
13:45they get a review, it helps them, it
13:46helps their family, it helps their, you
13:48know what I mean? It helps their
13:48livelihood. And if you're an owner of a
13:50business, you obviously you would do the
13:52same thing. Um, for for the legal stuff,
13:55it's a little different. You know, they
13:56got a they normally do after contact,
13:58you know, whether it be through email or
13:59text. And I know normally recommend them
14:02doing multiple points of contact um
14:04after after a client uh after they're
14:07done and getting a settlement and
14:08whatnot. So, um it's a little more
14:11difficult. You know, clients aren't as
14:12forthcoming with that. They don't want
14:14to always leave a review about their
14:15situation or whatever it may be. So, um
14:18you got to be a little more sensitive,
14:20but you got to you got to push. I think
14:21a lot of times I see it is most clients
14:24they're just scared to push and it's
14:26it's like if but if you don't do it, if
14:28you don't get reviews, you're just going
14:29to lose.
14:30>> Let me ask you this.
14:31>> You're not going to win.
14:32>> Let me ask you this. You're starting
14:34with a new Google business profile and
14:36you're going up against competitors who
14:39already have reviews, who already have
14:41good reviews. Maybe they have like they
14:45don't have the best GBPs, but still like
14:47decent
14:48>> and Okay, but and now you have a new
14:50Google business profile. So, how like
14:53what are you doing? How are you how are
14:55you even getting business to get the
14:57reviews so you can so you can climb?
14:59What what are you what's your strategy
15:01with a completely new Google business
15:03profile?
15:05>> Um if if it's completely new now, if you
15:07have no business at all, that that
15:08brings in a whole different different
15:09factor, right? So then then I say you
15:11get reviews by any means necessary, you
15:13know. We'll leave that that talk about
15:15that.
15:15>> No, no, talk about that.
15:18>> Whether whether it be friends, family, I
15:20don't care if you got to go out on the
15:21streets. I don't I I mean, do whatever
15:23you got to do. You know what I mean?
15:24Google has its guidelines, but at the
15:26end of the day, if if you're not going
15:28to break in without
15:29>> at the end of the day, you're a new
15:30business, you don't have much to lose.
15:32>> No, you don't. And and and also if if
15:34you realize that you're within a few
15:36blocks or even a mile of a super strong
15:39business like that, you got to move. You
15:41either got to move or you got to get
15:42another location. Um a lot of business
15:45owners I noticed they're very uh they're
15:47very weird about getting second
15:48locations. They don't they don't
15:50understand why you have to do it. So you
15:52have to explain to them, you know, how
15:53Google treats everybody like a pizza
15:55shop and you have a radius and and all
15:57that stuff. But they they're really
15:58resistant. uh they you know cuz it is
16:01there is there's normally a suspension
16:02in the beginning and and and all the
16:04stuff you have to deal with a lot of
16:06times they don't always go through and
16:07then you have to give them the evidence
16:09that you have every everything and
16:11you're you're you're actually at that
16:12location. Um you have to have a DBA in
16:15place and all that stuff. So there
16:16there's certain steps you got to take to
16:17get GBPs passed. You want to make sure
16:19you have all your paperwork ready. You
16:21know your proof of address. Uh make sure
16:23you have signage up make sure you have
16:25tools there. Whatever you need to do.
16:27Um, and we we'll rent offices. So, we'll
16:29rent little cheap offices around town.
16:32Put signage up and all that stuff. And
16:34it's got to appear as you're operating
16:36there, you know, and you can use it as a
16:38satellite, too, if you want, but you
16:40know, you got to it's got to look it's
16:41got to look right, you know. So, um, but
16:44but a lot of people are very scared of
16:45that and they think it's like the
16:47hardest process in the world and it's
16:48it's a little tedious, but the amount of
16:50money you get from having a new listing
16:52is so huge that I I don't understand why
16:55everyone's so
16:56>> you've done you've done it so often.
16:58Just walk walk listeners through just
17:00how to do it, how you do it.
17:01>> Okay. Okay. So, first off, the first off
17:05too, I make sure their business name has
17:08proper keywords in it. So if their
17:10business name doesn't have proper
17:11keywords in it, we have them get a DBA.
17:13So you're doing business as. So register
17:16that, register the DBA. Make sure you
17:18put put the proper keywords in there you
17:20want. So and we'll max it out. We'll max
17:21it out to the max. So the whatever GBP
17:24allows for the business name will have
17:27like uh it could be ACE AC repair and
17:32plumbing services. You know what I mean?
17:34It of city name.
17:35>> Yeah. Yeah. No, fill out the example.
17:38fill out the example. So, this is going
17:40to be the for the DBA. So, what would
17:42the business name be?
17:43>> Yeah. So, it would be like that. So,
17:45basically, if if they want water heater,
17:46say they're a plumber and they want
17:47water heaters, we'll make sure that
17:49plumbing's in the name somewhere or
17:50plumbers is in the name somewhere. And
17:52then also, uh it could be water heater
17:54removal in the name somewhere or water
17:56heater repair, whatever it may be.
17:58Whatever's you want to make it make it
18:00make sense soundwise, too. You want it
18:01to sound as right as possible, too,
18:03right? But as long as you have the DBA
18:04in place, I I actually heard Joy mention
18:07that they'll like report keyword
18:09stuffing on people's uh things. But as
18:12long as you have the DBA in place,
18:13you're safe because you can say, "Look,
18:14no, this is this is officially my doing
18:17business as name." So even if someone
18:20did report you doing that and and and it
18:22came down got suspended for a second,
18:24you would be able to get it right back.
18:25>> How do you how do you get the DBA?
18:27>> Um you you just you just go through the
18:29uh what's that? The Social Security.
18:31Well, not Social Security. what's the
18:32the state secretary of state office
18:34here? Um, I've only done it in Arizona,
18:36so I wouldn't know necessarily outside
18:38of Arizona, but that's all you have to
18:40do there. It's it's it's pretty much the
18:42same process of like creating an LLC or
18:44you could create an entire another LLC,
18:46too, if you want if that's if you if you
18:48want to go that route if you want to
18:50just change the name completely. Um,
18:52we've done that in cases, too.
18:54>> And but and you're doing you're doing
18:55that for every location.
18:58>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In most cases,
19:02in most cases, some cases we won't add
19:03the city name at the end and then we
19:05don't only have to do it once and then
19:07you have that DBA for for all locations,
19:09right? Yeah. Yeah. So,
19:11>> because you're cuz you're you're so
19:13because you want the actual location
19:16name in the business name.
19:19>> Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's
19:22not totally necessary. You could totally
19:23win without that. the keywords the the
19:26keywords for the niche are much more
19:28important of course uh than the city
19:30name
19:30>> because it would be I mean it would be a
19:31lot easier if you didn't have to do if
19:33you didn't have to
19:36get a DBA for every location.
19:39>> Yeah. Yeah, it would. It would it would.
19:41And we and we may be overdoing it. Who
19:43knows? But that's that's that's the
19:45route we go. But we do we do know the
19:47keywords in there work for sure. You
19:49know what I mean? And so, uh, we we we
19:51always try
19:52>> because you can you can still do the
19:53like, uh, the the Dave's water heater
19:57repair and pesky control. [laughter]
20:00>> You can you can you and you can and you
20:02can do that and you can have that across
20:04across locations.
20:06>> Yeah. Yeah. And then and then it's
20:07easier too brand wise. Normally normally
20:10for a client, I wouldn't recommend them
20:12putting the city name. Now, for us for
20:13us, we're talking about
20:15>> we'll have we'll have one lead brand. So
20:17when we have the lead brand, we just put
20:19the brand name. So say it's the the US
20:22Garage Door Heroes, right? Say it's
20:23that. Um that would be the same name
20:27across the board on all the locations.
20:30Now if we want to create the supporting
20:33brands, which are the lead generation
20:35sites, um those would have a different
20:38name. And then that's where we get into
20:40the super stuffing stuff.
20:41>> Like what?
20:42>> Uh
20:42>> like what?
20:43>> Like just just just like I was talking
20:45about. So if it was like a garage door,
20:46you would want repair and installation
20:48and whatever else in there. So you can
20:50rank for all those terms.
20:51>> And so you're making you're making
20:53you're making EMDs, exact match domains,
20:55you're saying?
20:56>> Well, no, this is for GBPs.
20:58>> Oh, okay.
20:58>> For GBPs. So So sites, too. So they'll
21:01have a site attached to them, too. So
21:02basically when for for what we have set
21:05up right now, we have one main brand in
21:06each niche that we're in. So um our main
21:09things are garage door, locksmith, and
21:11then AC AC repair, plumbing, right? So,
21:14but we have one main brand for each one
21:17and then we have three or four
21:19subbrands, whatever you want to call
21:21them, that are just lead generation
21:22basically that that company is
21:24servicing. So, it it would like if
21:28someone was making lead genen for
21:29plumbers and then running them out, but
21:31they're running them to themselves
21:33basically utilizing GBPs as well
21:37because if you don't use GBPs, you get
21:39like nothing. the the organic traffic in
21:42home services and stuff is so it's so
21:45low, you know what I mean? Well, now it
21:48didn't used to be. We used to survive
21:49off that. Um, but yeah, so it it it has
21:52to have you have to have the GBPs
21:54involved, which which is where a lot of
21:56people don't do it because it's very
21:57difficult. It's it's a lot of tedious
22:00dealing with Google every single week
22:02constantly.
22:03>> Okay. So So walk us through the rest of
22:05you you setting up a new GBP.
22:07>> Okay. So So where were we at? We were at
22:09the um
22:10>> we got stuck on the on the putting
22:12keywords in the name.
22:13>> Oh yeah.
22:13>> And then went into this like I I started
22:16going down the rabbit hole and asking
22:17all these questions.
22:18>> That's the way it goes. That's the way
22:19it goes. Yeah. No.
22:20>> Well, I want to give the most detailed
22:21answers to to listeners cuz like I want
22:24I want listeners This is what I try to
22:26do on every show. I want listeners to
22:28walk away knowing exactly what to do.
22:31>> For sure. For sure. And then so when you
22:33get to when you get to categories, I
22:34know a lot of people say to put as many
22:36categories as you can and all that stuff
22:39and I kind of believe that, but I it's
22:41mostly about the categories that you
22:42want because you don't want to put
22:44something in there that say say you're a
22:46injury lawyer and then you just put you
22:49know
22:51attorney or law firm that now you're
22:53going to get some more generalistic
22:54leads that you don't even want coming
22:55into your phone, right? And then you may
22:57rank less for that very specific thing
22:59that you really want because they're
23:01they're you know Google from what I've
23:02seen they they they seem to rotate too.
23:05They have a rotation because they're
23:06trying to get you to buy ads. They're
23:08not you know what I mean that they're
23:10trying to rotate out the GBPs a little
23:11bit. Uh there's some consistency but
23:13there's some rotation. Um, but yeah, so
23:17basically, uh, category, you want it to
23:20be right, but I don't I don't believe in
23:21the whole thing where you have to put a
23:22bunch of maxing it out with all the
23:24categories or even matching what your
23:26competitors are doing because you can
23:28match what your competitors are doing
23:29category wise, but they're most likely
23:30ranking the majority of time because of
23:32their reviews and their on page and
23:33their off-site SEO stuff. It it it it's
23:35not it only has so much to do with the
23:37categories unless they have the wrong
23:38category completely, of course, that
23:40would but who does that, right? So, um,
23:43as far as and then your description,
23:45make sure you got good keywords in your
23:46description. Um, make sure you got the
23:49city in the description. Uh, as far as
23:52target areas, when they ask you about
23:53the areas you service, you can just put
23:55that exact city and that's it. They're
23:57going to only give you the radius
23:58anyway, so it doesn't really matter. You
24:01could you could put a little a list of
24:02cities in there and it's not going to do
24:04anything. So, um, from what I've seen at
24:06least, you just just put the main city
24:08in there. Um, and other than that,
24:10there's not there's not much else. the
24:11GBP as far as updating and publishing
24:13posts. That's more for user uh based
24:16stuff as far as I'm concerned. I haven't
24:18seen it move the needle in rankings at
24:20all. Um but I suggest doing it, you
24:23know, just in case it starts to, you
24:24know, we don't you never know if you
24:26know Google changes what it what it
24:27waits and what it doesn't. [snorts] Um
24:30and that's that's really about it.
24:32That's really about it. Um other than
24:33that, then after that, you just got to
24:35you just got to get reviews. Um period
24:39by any means necessary. If you have
24:40technicians that can't get reviews, you
24:42have to fire them. They they can't stay,
24:45you know. Um unless you have a system on
24:48the back end where you're getting the
24:49reviews. Secondary, you you can't keep
24:51you can't keep texts around that it
24:53can't get reviews or that are getting
24:54you negative ones that that that that
24:56person has to go cuz that's longterm.
24:58You're not going to win. You're done,
25:01you know? So, yeah, that's
25:03>> Have you Have you seen any any systems
25:06that you like on the back end for
25:07getting reviews? you they we talked we
25:09were talking about this earlier and you
25:10said like yeah have the technician do it
25:12but
25:13>> maybe someone somebody's listening and
25:15they're like oh my gosh I really don't
25:16want to fire this guy like physicist so
25:19that I can do
25:20>> yeah what you what you want to do is in
25:22most case there's there's obviously a
25:23lot of uh different CMSs and things you
25:25can use you can ch you can choose that
25:27and most um most home service companies
25:29use a CMS for their business already and
25:31it'll have that built in where you can
25:33send instant texts and instant emails um
25:37but you want to send them to another
25:38page page first to make sure they were
25:39satisfied. So, you don't want to get
25:40more negative reviews either. So, you
25:43you because you don't know what might
25:44have happened on that job if you send
25:45them out immediately. So, you want it to
25:47go to a page first that says, you know,
25:49were you satisfied with the review? If
25:51they say yes, it goes to the the review
25:53link. And if if it says no, then it
25:56comes to a page where they can send you
25:58a message and you can try to, you know,
26:01correct that situation, you know, cuz
26:04getting avoiding a negative negative
26:06review at all cost is always necessary.
26:07No matter if you got to do full refunds
26:09or whatever you have to do, it's it's
26:11it's so important to
26:12>> when you when you uh when you offer to
26:15refund somebody because they gave you a
26:17bad review, what what sort of language
26:18do you use? How do you like how do you
26:20send that message or email or phone
26:22call?
26:24>> Um well, when when you're talking to
26:25them, you can kind of feel it out. You
26:26know, it depends on the anger level and
26:28depends on the situation, right? So, if
26:29if it's if it's if it's really
26:31>> Okay. This is like you you're this is
26:33this is before
26:35No, but I'm I'm saying like someone has
26:37already left the review has already left
26:39the review. Yeah. And you want to see
26:41you want to refund them to get it
26:42removed.
26:44>> Yeah. Well, f first you talk to them to
26:45see what was wrong to see if you can
26:46just, you know,
26:48>> convince them that, you know, um that it
26:51wasn't that.
26:51>> Will you ask them to will you just will
26:53you flat out say like if it's possible
26:55to to take that down? It's really
26:58hurting. Um yeah, as at somewhere in the
27:00conversation that normally comes, you
27:01know what I mean? Um you won't even may
27:03maybe use the language as far as it's
27:04going to affect my rankings or anything
27:06like that, but uh you'll you'll
27:08definitely um emphasize that it that it
27:10that it's highly important, you know
27:12what I mean? Um but mostly you're just
27:14worried about them. You're focused on
27:15them and and making sure that they're,
27:18you know, happy with the ordeal. And a
27:19lot of times normally those people
27:21become your biggest fans later, you
27:22know, um because they're like, "Wow,
27:24they they refunded us $4,000 or whatever
27:27it may have been." Basically, they got a
27:29free free AC installation almost or
27:31whatever it may be. Cuz that's if
27:32something really really goes wrong, you
27:34know, every once in a while you get a
27:35technician that just does something
27:36that's, you know, just just does a
27:39horrible job. It just happens, you know,
27:41or they or they make a mistake, you
27:43know. So, um but you just got to handle
27:45those things and and if you don't, it'll
27:46it'll bite you for sure, you know.
27:49Um, how how much do you think about
27:51about a like a website's involvement
27:54with your Google business profile? You
27:56know, actually I um the first time that
27:58Darren Shaw came on this podcast, he
28:01said and he's one of the top people in
28:04in local SEO and he's like he's like,
28:06"Yeah, we we looked at the log files for
28:09sites connected to a Google business
28:10profile and whenever you make a change
28:12to Google business profile, Google goes
28:15and crawls every single page. Any little
28:19minor change on the GBP, Google goes and
28:21crawls the entire site." Yeah. Yeah.
28:24Well, honestly, there's there's more
28:26impact on the the page on your site when
28:30you get more reviews on your GBP than
28:33there is when you do things to your web
28:36landing page for your GBP. Honestly, um
28:40as far as impact and ranking. So, say
28:42say you're making a new GBP to another
28:45city on your site and and you point it
28:47to a city page on your site. If that
28:49city page, that city page cannot be
28:51ranking hardly at all. The second you
28:53attach a GBP to it, obviously you just
28:54got the best link in the world. You got
28:56Google, right? That's the strongest link
28:58you could possibly get. And then once
29:00you start adding reviews to it, it could
29:02be five, it could be 10, it could be 15.
29:04You you you could have been sitting at
29:0540 or 50. You're now you're sitting in
29:07the top 10 in a lot of cases without
29:10even doing any extra links, any extra
29:12internal links, anything like that. It's
29:14like instantaneously. You know what I
29:16mean? Now, you got to you got to do the
29:18other stuff to bring it all the way up.
29:19That's not going to necessarily make you
29:20number one. But I see less impact the
29:22other way around. You know, I'll have
29:24I'll have pages where I have them in the
29:26top five, top three, top two for almost
29:28every key term that page could possibly
29:31be there for, but it has like very very
29:34little to no impact on the GBP that it's
29:37attached to, you know, very very minor
29:40amount. So, it's very interesting in
29:43that way, you know, and like I said
29:45before, we've had GBPs that um weren't
29:47even attached to a web page and
29:50were beating everybody just because they
29:52had more reviews at the time, you know,
29:54since since then, they've been attached
29:56to a page, but it it was a situation
29:58where, you know, uh somebody else owned
30:00the site for a while and and then they
30:02got mad about something and they deleted
30:04the site. So it didn't have a site for a
30:05bit, you know, but with even without a
30:07site, it was still it it was still
30:10winning all three of them. So yeah. Yep.
30:13>> Your paro principle for local SEO is
30:16reviews, reviews, reviews, reviews. Like
30:19if you want if you want to focus on the
30:2120% that's going to get you 80% of
30:23results for local.
30:24>> It is. Yeah. I you know I I um
30:28>> and I believe that that's the case for
30:30all businesses as well. I I don't know
30:32if you if you heard this podcast that I
30:34made
30:34>> a few weeks ago about how like I think
30:37just the amount of companies now
30:40>> trying to automate customer support is
30:43the biggest mistake and they're they're
30:45like okay yeah great uh LLMs are so good
30:49we we have our documentation we have our
30:52knowledge base and the LLM we could we
30:54could just like remove just remove as
30:56much customer support as you can and
30:58what happens like if you are If you have
31:01a well, let's just start with a a good
31:04product because you you want to have a
31:06good product. If you have a good
31:07product, a good brand, and you have good
31:09customer support, people are literally
31:12going to go onto the platforms that LLMs
31:16are using
31:18just recommending your business. People
31:20will go and do parasite SEO for you.
31:23>> They they and and it's not just it's not
31:26just for LLMs. It's like if it's Reddit,
31:28perfect example. Users of Reddit are
31:30going to see that. LLMs are going to see
31:33that. People will literally go like you
31:35don't have to worry about doing risky
31:37parasite SEO having to try to get around
31:40Reddit, which is getting
31:42>> more sophisticated at blocking people
31:44trying to do parasite. And it's not just
31:46Reddit. It's like all platforms. People
31:48will go and do this for you. If you have
31:50a good brand and good support, that's
31:52like the the best thing. Now,
31:54>> yeah,
31:55>> if you have a good brand and bad
31:58support,
31:59people will still recommend you, but
32:01it's not going to be as heavy. Like,
32:03like it just invest in good support is
32:06great. But now, here's where it's it's
32:07really crazy. If you have a bad brand,
32:11like your product is disappointing, but
32:13you have the best support in the world,
32:16the amount of people who leave you
32:18negative reviews is going to decrease.
32:22so so so so so much. And like you said,
32:27the cost
32:28>> of getting bad reviews removed is
32:32tremendous.
32:33>> The cost is tre It really hurts you.
32:36Like it hurts your business and then it
32:37hurts you further to have to get these
32:40>> reviews removed.
32:42>> Yeah. It's not cheap to get them removed
32:43either. The companies that charge, you
32:45know, if you're not able to get them
32:46removed yourself and you some of them
32:47you can't get removed at all. Of course,
32:49they don't remove them all, but uh yeah,
32:52you know, it's normally $400 to $1,000 a
32:54piece, you know, um in most cases. So,
32:57you know, you definitely don't want to
32:58get those. Um and and LM systems are the
33:01same way. It's it's it's just reviews
33:02across the board. So if you want to win
33:05in home services, if you want to win in,
33:07you know, HVAC, Witchita, whatever,
33:10whatever, whatever it may be, you got to
33:12have Thumbtac reviews, you got to have
33:13Yelp reviews, you got to have Facebook
33:16reviews, you got to have, you got to
33:17have them all over the place cuz all the
33:19LM system doing is doing is going to
33:21search the web and trying to find
33:22consensus and and how it does in home
33:24services. And I've noticed in legal,
33:25it's basically the same basically the
33:27same way with a little bit of extra on
33:29top, you know, awards and things like
33:31that. those things are less important in
33:32home services, I've noticed. Um, but in
33:35home services, it's just reviews across
33:38the board, you know, cuz I I know I
33:40noticed uh initially that in home
33:44services, some people were ranking that
33:46you never saw on Google and then you
33:47just look, you just do some research and
33:49you find, oh, they had 300 thumbtack
33:51reviews and 200 Yelp reviews and this,
33:53you know what I mean? So, if you only
33:55have a thousand Google reviews, you
33:58don't do as well on LLM. You start to
33:59sink to the bottom. But the second you
34:01get 10 10 or 15 reviews on Thumbtac and
34:04then 10 or 20 over here and 10 or 20
34:06over there. Um, and not only do you have
34:08to get the reviews, you also have to
34:11make sure that those directory listings
34:12rank on Google. So when the LLMs are
34:15searching the web to find stuff about
34:17your company, you know, when they do
34:18that query fan out and they, you know,
34:20search business name reviews, you need
34:23to send links to those or whatever you
34:25got to do to make sure in the top 20,
34:26top 30, all of your listings that have
34:28reviews are ranking and are there and
34:31easy to find, you know. Um, which which
34:33is how I've done really well with the
34:35law stuff is is sending links to their
34:37directory listings
34:39because a lot of times some of the ones
34:41they have reviews on like their AVO or
34:42whatever it may be might get buried. You
34:44know, might be 30 33 or 56 or and the
34:47LMS aren't seeing them. They aren't
34:49catching them somehow. So, push all that
34:51to the top. Push what you push what you
34:53want the world to see to the top on on
34:55Google, you know, is is is kind of the
34:57game, you know.
34:57>> So, how are you how are you building
34:58links to brand directories? Because
35:01basically like just to like summarize
35:03for people who are trying to follow, you
35:04want to have your
35:06>> branded directory listings which have a
35:09re each of them have good reviews on
35:11them and you want those to be on page
35:13one
35:14>> and so you need to Yeah. Yeah. And so
35:16you need to get those onto page you need
35:18to get those as high as you can. And so
35:20you're building links to these directory
35:21listings. How are you building link how
35:23are you building links?
35:24>> Um I usually use guest posts um through
35:27through sites like I copify or press wiz
35:29and whatnot. Um I I have manis set up uh
35:33manis manis.im IM, which is basically to
35:36those that don't know about it, it's
35:37like Claude, co-work, or uh or or
35:40codeex, whatever. They're all, you know,
35:42task do stuff that can carry out task,
35:44AI that can carry out tasks. Um, but I
35:46have it I have it I taught it how to um
35:50examine the domains and go into use my
35:53ah ahf's uh MCP and all that stuff like
35:56that and and it and it examines all the
35:57domains and then it makes the whole plan
36:00for actually uh for that for that set of
36:03links uh builds all the articles does
36:05everything and does the submission
36:07process and checks back on those sites
36:09to make sure that those um that those
36:12that those that were links were put up
36:13and put up properly. check in and make
36:15sure if it was supposed to be a follow,
36:17it was a do follow and all those things.
36:19Um, that that's one way to do it. You
36:21can also buy those like second tier
36:22packages and stuff like that. It's a
36:24little safer when you're dealing with
36:25someone else's directory. Uh, these
36:27directories are so strong they can
36:29handle any type of links. You could
36:30throw anything at them really. Um, it's
36:32it's kind of kind of like parasite SEO
36:35style, you know. Um, but I I try to get
36:37the best links possible because you
36:38don't need a ton, you know. You're just
36:40you're trying to make it rank for your
36:41band. So, how many people are actually
36:43getting links for my your business name
36:45with re and reviews and the anchor text
36:47like no one else is trying to rank for
36:49that, right? So, it's it it's not too
36:51hard to push them up. You know,
36:52>> a bunch of people who have been using my
36:54trick where I just say like buy your the
36:57brand name pluswordreviews.com
37:00>> and uh and yeah, so I I shared this
37:03thing uh a few months ago and it's gone
37:05really viral. people are like they're
37:07showing me their results and it's
37:09getting cited in the AI overview and
37:10it's ranking number one for the brand
37:13name plus reviews and then I'm like and
37:15you could go you could actually take
37:17that a step crazier and then you could
37:19have like an executive summary site for
37:21all of your reviews where you basically
37:23just take your reviews and then you have
37:25like a you have another exact match
37:27domain is like your brand reviews
37:29summarized or something.com I forget the
37:32the modifier that you would put in that
37:34EMD and basically
37:35You just basic off of all you know you
37:38you really could create it's kind of
37:40funny but you actually could you could
37:42create separate sites for individual or
37:47maybe clusters of reviews like maybe you
37:49have maybe you have so many reviews that
37:52you can cluster them into different
37:56customer profiles
37:57>> and
37:58and and then you link to these with your
38:01parent site the
38:03>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big fan of that. I I I
38:05you could make one testimonials, you
38:07could make one reviews, you could I also
38:09thought about I I I actually saw you
38:11talking about that and it made me think
38:12about I was like, well, maybe you make a
38:14review site, but not only do you have
38:16like reviews from one place, so you'd
38:18have like you'd have like pages for your
38:20Google reviews, one for your Facebook
38:22reviews, one for your because I noticed
38:24LLM sometimes will uh be behind on
38:26reviews like on Facebook like they won't
38:28have the proper count and stuff like
38:29that. So, you make sure that they
38:31actually know what the proper count is.
38:33um and whatnot. So, yeah, you could you
38:35could have it from your each each
38:37profile's reviews could be on a
38:38different page.
38:39>> So, you know what I mean? So, you can
38:41have a navigation for so you could see
38:43the
38:43>> Would you do it as a I'm saying to
38:45actually do it as a separate website?
38:47>> Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what I
38:48mean. Like, so and it could be both.
38:50Like, I think you mentioned it too like
38:51you could have a reviews everybody
38:53should have obviously a reviews page
38:54right on their on their site, but like
38:56>> um but you but and if you did it on a
38:58page on your site, you could even you
39:00could even do it with tabs or something
39:01like that. your your uh your Google
39:03reviews and your Facebook reviews, your
39:04Yelp reviews, you know, stuff like that.
39:06So, a person or an LLM could come there
39:08and quickly get it all at once
39:10>> because what because what you're
39:12happening happening is you are putting
39:14more of what you are controlling more of
39:17your brand's narrative on page one,
39:19>> which is where most of the information
39:21in LLM is going to get. And and people
39:24people I mean like the best place to
39:26bury a dead body is page two of Google.
39:29So,
39:29>> yeah. [laughter]
39:30Yeah. Yeah. It might even be spot nine
39:32or 10 these days sometimes.
39:35>> But yeah, so yeah, that that that's the
39:38key. I mean, it it sounds, you know,
39:41people want to hear the other stuff, you
39:43know, and and the other stuff's all
39:44important, you know, especially like the
39:45stuff you do with compact keywords. All
39:47that stuff's very important, you know,
39:48and you do want organic traffic and it's
39:49there. Um, and and you and you do want
39:52to make sure you have the proper
39:52keywords on a page and your
39:54>> Yeah, let's talk about how you're how
39:55how do you do keyword research?
39:57Um, a a lot of it, uh, since I only work
40:01with people that normally already have a
40:03lot of data, it it's different than
40:05maybe like a fresh site. I don't really
40:07work on a fresh site really much
40:10anymore. It's been a long time. Um, so
40:13couple things I like to do. Obvious
40:15obviously you go into search console and
40:16and you figure all that stuff out, but
40:18one of the main places is their ads. If
40:20they're spending a lot of money on ads,
40:23then you really know. then you can
40:24really see everything because they rank
40:26for everything they want to, right? So
40:29then you see what what what keywords
40:30actually produce conversions, which ones
40:33actually work for these people, you
40:35know? Um cuz you could see Search
40:37Console and you see, oh 600 impressions
40:40a day, but like three clicks a month.
40:43You're like, and they're spot two, you
40:46know, like you're like, so what is this
40:48really going to do even if they get to
40:49one, you know? So, but but not saying it
40:52won't do something, but then then you
40:54then you go to their ads account and you
40:56can really see, oh, okay,
40:59you know, this is how many clicks they
41:01actually get for this and this is how
41:02many this is how many conversions they
41:03actually get for this. Um, one of the
41:05tactics I do is, so when I go to a page
41:09that's already built, I'll take the
41:12search console query data and then I'll
41:15take the content of the page, the the
41:17the code from the WordPress, you know
41:19what I mean? I'll take the code and then
41:21I'll take take the URL and I'll put that
41:23all into Manis. You could put that into
41:25codeex, you could put it into whatever
41:27and recreate the page, you know what I
41:30mean? with all that data and it and it
41:32has obviously the knowledge in place
41:34where stuff you talk about as far as the
41:38keywords with a good amount of
41:39impressions that are like ranking close
41:42and whatnot or what whatever your
41:43standards are for that everybody has a
41:44different idea of maybe what what's
41:46important for that page but then then it
41:50decides those things and it'll tell me
41:51all the changes it's about to make
41:53because I don't trust AI to make
41:55>> it normally messes up if you don't pay
41:56attention so it tries to put way too
41:58many or way too little or ignores some
42:02of the key uh elements you want in
42:04there. So, I have it tell me exactly
42:06what it's about to do, you know, but I
42:08just page after page, you know, search
42:11search console data, the page itself,
42:14you know what I mean? And then now you
42:15have a fully updated page that's that's
42:17ready to go, you know? Um, but but yeah,
42:21I I definitely I definitely believe in
42:23what you believe in with with with with
42:24keywords and stuff like that, going
42:26after the right intent. um that that
42:28goes back to looking at their Google
42:29ads, you know, that you see you see the
42:31the real intent. And with lawyers, with
42:34the lawyers I I work with and stuff,
42:35these people are spending $100,000 a
42:37month, you know, at least a lot of them
42:39on on Google Ads so much. So, there's so
42:41much data there. There's so much data to
42:43see. Um and at first, they're always
42:45like, "Well, why do you want to see my
42:47why do you want to see my ads account?
42:49You're our SEO, right?" I'm like, "Well,
42:51I need I need the data. I need the I
42:53need the I need to see the data. like
42:54you don't need to I don't need editing
42:56privileges or I don't want to touch
42:58anything. I just I just want data so I
43:00can export C CSVs and you know use that
43:04and that's it. But yeah,
43:06>> have you seen any have you found any
43:08semantic patterns in the types of
43:11keywords that lead to conversions where
43:14it's like maybe you've looked at this
43:16data long enough where you can look at a
43:18keyword and be like that's not going to
43:20convert and you can look another one and
43:21be like that that's going to be a
43:23valuable keyword.
43:25>> Um well, you know, there's the balance
43:26of some just have such high volume that
43:29whether they convert well or not,
43:31they're just important. And I think you
43:32had a guy in here before for injury
43:34lawyers and stuff. Yeah. Car accident
43:36lawyer and things like that. You want
43:37those no matter what. Even if they might
43:39convert less than um best car accident
43:42lawyer service, you know what I mean?
43:44Obviously when you start adding those
43:45exteriors
43:47um like service and emergency and things
43:51like that. I noticed at least in home
43:52service when you add those things in
43:54there, those tend to convert a little
43:56better than just the keyword itself,
43:58right? by itself because those are
43:59getting searched less also probably by
44:02bots and things like that where people
44:03are just
44:05doing keyword reports you know ranking
44:08saying the service yeah for sure I mean
44:10if you think about like what a a head
44:12keyword is most head keywords are just
44:14in they're moreformational than intent
44:17people who are trying to learn
44:19>> yeah and then it's so broad you know
44:21what I mean it's so broad that you don't
44:23really know um what the exact numbers
44:25really are you know um so many people
44:29are running ranking systems more and
44:31more and more, you know, and and it's
44:33and it's who knows how many of those are
44:36just bots searching for those keywords.
44:38So, you don't it's hard to tell until so
44:40until you have the data like the direct
44:41data from their either their search
44:43console or their analytics or their or
44:45their ads, it's it's really it's really
44:48hard to tell unless you already been in
44:49that that industry, of course. You know,
44:51do
44:51>> you prefer uh do you prefer SEO for
44:54personal injury law or home services?
44:58Um,
45:00I I think it's funner to win for
45:02personal injury law because if you just
45:05win one keyword,
45:07it's worth so much money. So,
45:10>> say how much again. Say how much Say how
45:12much again. Oh, no. You said the budget,
45:14but not but yeah, talk. Say how much it
45:16could be worth.
45:17>> Well, for for instance, the one law firm
45:18I work for that in the first six months
45:20of this year, they've already done 100
45:21million.
45:22So
45:24for for a home service company to do
45:26that, it would be they'd have to they'd
45:28have to be one of the biggest home
45:28service companies in the whole nation.
45:30You know that, you know, I have a buddy
45:32that sold his home service company for
45:33200 million, but he's one of the biggest
45:34garage door guys in in the in in the
45:36whole world, you know. So, but it's just
45:40like you don't have to get that many
45:43clicks or that many leads to get them a
45:45lot of money. You know, their average
45:46ROI is like 15K plus in most cases, at
45:49least with an injury lawyer. um from
45:51from what I've seen. Um so
45:54the the amount of clicks you have to get
45:56them the amount the amount of rankings
45:59you have to get them is much lower to
46:01cause cause excitement and to cause ROI
46:04for them, you know. So um with a home
46:07service company, you have to you have to
46:08get them ranking for so much more to get
46:10so much less.
46:10>> Here's a cool question. What's so okay
46:13so what's
46:16>> personal injury law super valuable when
46:18you get a client? What is the potential
46:23CL client um
46:26what's what's the word uh uh like
46:30discovery process like as in like they
46:32maybe they find you from SEO or are they
46:35typically finding you from SEO?
46:38>> Yeah. And then and then how
46:39>> either either that or ads add ads to
46:42Google. Let's let's start then let's
46:44yeah let's start with SEO. And so I
46:47assume that they're not going to sign.
46:48Maybe they will. Do they just make a
46:51call and sign right there or are they
46:52going to like go and look at reviews and
46:55and like what sort of things are
46:56potential clients doing before they turn
46:59into before they turn into clients? So
47:02that way you know how to cover the Yeah.
47:05across every uh every like art of
47:08intent.
47:09>> Yeah, I I think that's I think that's
47:11there's more research obviously um when
47:14someone's trying to get a personal
47:15injury lawyer than than they're just
47:17trying to get, you know, their locks
47:18replaced. Um so they're they're
47:20definitely going to look on on the
47:21internet a little more too. They're
47:23going to look around at more reviews.
47:25That's why I stress reviews, especially
47:26for personal injury lawyers. Make sure
47:28you have reviews everywhere. Everywhere.
47:31Um I I I see so many. It was so easy to
47:35take over an AI in that area because so
47:38many of these law groups and stuff are
47:40not paying attention to the other the
47:42their other sites. They get a listing on
47:44them. They they make sure they have
47:45their listings, but they aren't actually
47:47going after reviews on those sites. And
47:48a listing with no reviews is basically
47:50worthless cuz it's just saying your
47:53business exists. That used to have some
47:55value with GBP, you know, it just to
47:57verify that you're an actual business.
47:59Yes. But now with the with the AI
48:02systems and stuff, the the reviews need
48:04to be there, you know what I mean? There
48:06has to be some some type of value there.
48:08Um, but yeah, they they definitely they
48:10definitely shop around a little bit
48:12more. They definitely call more people a
48:13little bit more, you know? Um, but I'm
48:16used to that, too, with like the HVAC
48:17area, too. They're like that when
48:19they're getting a new system installed
48:20that's going to has possibly cost up to
48:23$20,000, they're going to call around,
48:24you know. So, you got to have good
48:26people on the phones. You got to have
48:27good good people in in
48:30>> the client the client journey. That's
48:31that's the term that I was looking for.
48:33So it's Yeah. So what so what do they
48:34do? They find you from SEO and then
48:36what's what's step two?
48:38>> Um nor normally obviously they call in
48:40they call in and then um from there
48:43their case has to get evaluated because
48:45you got to figure out if they're even
48:47you know sometimes you get negative
48:48reviews because they think they had a
48:50case and they didn't you know and you
48:52never even did anything for this c
48:53client. They just thought you should
48:55have represented them and you and you
48:57couldn't.
48:58>> What would you do? What would you do in
48:59an incident like that where you get a
49:01negative review like that?
49:03>> Uh well, you just you obviously you try
49:04to get a hold of them and let them know
49:06like, you know, obviously we weren't
49:08trying to be rude in any sit in any way.
49:10We were just, you know, letting you know
49:12that that's not either that's not
49:13sometimes it's not even the type of law
49:15you do. It'll be like they didn't take
49:17my case, but like it's a criminal case
49:18and they don't do criminal and it's like
49:19[laughter]
49:20what are you supposed to do? you know,
49:22you can't really there's not much you
49:23can do about that, you know. Um, I don't
49:26I don't handle that part for most of
49:28these companies, you know what I mean? I
49:30I understand their process a little bit
49:31for it, but but yeah, I you know, it's
49:35it's uh it's definitely
49:38a a lot more difficult than just a
49:40emergency home service thing. You know,
49:42they they definitely are a little more
49:43inquisitive. You know, they want to know
49:45more. But that's that's why it's
49:46important to just have your stuff all
49:48set up online everywhere. It's got to be
49:49perfect everywhere. You got to have
49:51articles constantly going out. I do at
49:53least three to five press releases a
49:54week. Um, so we we put press releases
49:58out about case settlements that they
49:59get, about any press that they get, any
50:02awards that they get. Sometimes if an
50:04award hasn't got if if we haven't
50:05haven't done a press release on it in
50:07over 6 to 12 months, I'll do it again.
50:09I'll just send it out all over again cuz
50:10it's fresh. Um, get it on all these
50:13little Best Bu
50:15if you'll send it out again if what
50:18happened. if if it hasn't been set out
50:20in a while. So, they could have got
50:22>> people reuse the same news over and over
50:24again.
50:25>> Yeah. Over and over again. Yeah, for
50:26sure. It's all about being Yeah. It's
50:28all about being fresh. And the LM might
50:29not have caught it the first time
50:31>> or people forgot or some other people
50:33don't Yeah. People like
50:34>> you could do that with the people put
50:36out the same piece of content over and
50:38over again all the time.
50:39>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
50:41>> Same high performing piece of content.
50:42You should be doing that.
50:44>> Yeah. And you could phrase it
50:45differently, too. I always make sure
50:46like there's keywords and geo stuff in
50:48the titles of the press releases to to
50:51you know relate things and whatnot. So
50:54>> what are what are you using to send out
50:55press releases and then how do you how
50:57do you write press releases for SEO?
50:59>> I I usually use EIN right now. Um it's
51:02been it's been the easiest one for me. I
51:04also set up Manis to do that for me too.
51:06So um
51:07>> how much are you for a press release?
51:10>> Uh they they average about 50 bucks a
51:12piece. I buy them 15 at a time. I think
51:14it's I think I think it's averages about
51:1650 bucks a piece when you get like when
51:18you buy the 15 15 package or whatever.
51:21So I I I have to do that like twice a
51:23month normally.
51:24>> And what's the what's the distribution
51:25like?
51:27>> Um it's decent. It it it's a hit or
51:29miss. You know what I mean? Sometimes
51:31you get on really good law sites and
51:33sometimes it's just a bunch of a bunch
51:35of crap. But you know press releases
51:37only a few are going to stay indexed,
51:39right? Because it's all the same. It's
51:41all the same. I've been I've been
51:42experimenting trying to get press
51:44releases to stay indexed for longer. I
51:46was trying to use I was trying to use
51:47indexers on press releases and I was
51:49keeping track of how long they would
51:51stay index and it the indexers just
51:53weren't really making a difference. I
51:55think honestly the best way to keep
51:56press releases index is to just actually
51:58build like real links to them.
52:00>> Yeah. Build links to them or just do a
52:02whole another one.
52:03>> Yeah. So now it's up again.
52:06>> It's gone. Just put it out again. You
52:08know what I mean? It's
52:09>> so so Yeah. So that's that's
52:10interesting. So you'll just you
52:13basically will just kind of you said you
52:15have AI and it's just like you have the
52:18same content with a press release going
52:21out every interval with time
52:24>> like what's a time interval?
52:26>> Yeah. Cuz I have it trained to a point
52:28where if if I just have an idea for a
52:30title because it knows the businesses I
52:32work on, right? So the it understands
52:35the the locations, it understands the
52:37website URL to go to to to find stuff
52:40about about the business. It already has
52:42the information about the business in
52:43there, all the awards they have
52:44currently. So if if I want to do a press
52:46release, I can just put the title in. I
52:49do usually put more than that in. I
52:50usually have an outline and whatnot, but
52:51I could viably just put the title and
52:53say, "This is the idea for the press
52:55release."
52:55>> This is really exciting for me. I've
52:57been This is I've been like Yeah. I've
52:59been trying to hire press release
53:00writers.
53:01>> Yeah. And and for for you it might be a
53:03little different too because your your
53:05your brand your brand is like a brand.
53:09>> It's different when a brand is something
53:10people are excited about or interested
53:12in, right? Like super interested in when
53:14when you're dealing with like home
53:15service and and and legal like people
53:18not many people are actually going to
53:19read.
53:19>> No, I wanted I wanted to do it I wanted
53:21to do it for online reputation
53:22management just like uh just cuz I I I I
53:25want good stuff. I I like reusing
53:29um a like a a good review for example in
53:32many different ways. And James Julie, he
53:34was he was on the podcast talking about
53:36that
53:37>> uh a week or two ago and him and I are
53:39the same. Like we you get one good
53:41review and you turn that into 50 pieces
53:44of content.
53:45And so what you're saying with just
53:49literally sending out the same exact So
53:52>> I I want to just I want to understand
53:55you will have a press release. You have
53:57the title and you have the body and you
54:00will literally send that out without
54:03changing anything basically like every 3
54:05months or will you make slight changes?
54:08>> It'll it'll get rewritten. I'll have it
54:10I'll have it re rewrite it in in a
54:12different way. And I'll normally add
54:13things to if if new awards
54:15>> add. So you won't send out the the exact
54:17same.
54:17>> Not exactly not exactly the same, but it
54:19could be about the same thing. So or if
54:22and I'll make I'll make up reasons, too.
54:24Like I'll be like, "Oh, we hit 300
54:26reviews on this one location, so we're
54:28going to say
54:30everything's going business is going
54:31great as normal. Put out a press
54:33release."
54:33>> Yeah. Yeah. But are you um are you
54:36personally reviewing the press releases?
54:39Have you are you
54:41>> removing AI giveaways in the press
54:43releases?
54:44>> Yeah. So so so most of that stuff is in
54:47um is in my system already. So as far as
54:51like humanizing and making sure all the
54:53weird AI stuff is not in there. It
54:55already knows to it it already checks
54:57that before it puts it in. But I never
54:59put a press release up and and have it
55:02distribute on its own. So I don't I
55:04don't I don't have I don't have Manis
55:06actually distribute. I have it put it up
55:08on the press release site as a draft.
55:10So, I always go back in and do the final
55:13edit, which is normally not much. I'm
55:15just glancing over it and just making
55:17sure the right image is in there that I
55:18want attached and the right links, the
55:21right the right social media links and
55:23stuff like that.
55:23>> So, so is is Manis putting in m dashes?
55:27Is it putting in
55:28>> No, no, no. Cuz it it it it double I
55:32have it double checking. So it'll it'll
55:34it already knows the rules that I have
55:36in place, but obviously AI ignores rules
55:37a lot.
55:38>> That's Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm
55:40asking.
55:41>> And sometimes it'll ignore the rules
55:42again. But
55:44>> it's crazy. You can literally say,
55:46"Don't use an M dash." And then it will
55:48say, "Oh, I'm sorry. M dash won't happen
55:51again." [laughter]
55:51>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it it
55:55definitely does that. Especially I I do
55:56my blog post this way, too. I do my blog
55:58post in batches. Um, and so I'll be
56:02doing a batch like say cuz cuz I look at
56:04I look at it's like I'm trying to get
56:05internal links to a set of pages, right?
56:07Normally when I'm doing a set of blog
56:08posts cuz what else are they really
56:10worth in in in these in these type cases
56:13like home services and stuff? No one's
56:14reading the post, right? They're not
56:15really that important to the public
56:17sadly. But uh but they have the internal
56:20links that shoot rankings up on the
56:22pages, right? So, um, basically it's
56:25planned for that. And I'll I'll do a set
56:27and that's where it normally does the
56:29real mess up when you're doing like 40
56:30blog posts at a time. It's creating all
56:33the images for them. It's do them all.
56:34It's it but it just puts them up as
56:36drafts. But I'll have multiple checks.
56:38I'll say, "Make sure you humanize it.
56:39You know, I have the list of things to
56:41take out and stuff." It'll still leave
56:42that stuff in there, you know. Um,
56:45>> yeah. Super frustrating. Are you the one
56:46going through that or do you have
56:47somebody who goes through through that?
56:49>> Um, it it depends on the case. It's
56:51mostly me. I'm I'm very untrusting. Uh
56:54>> yeah, me too. It's a problem because I
56:57got to hire more people.
56:58>> Yeah, it especially when it comes
57:00>> are too high.
57:01>> Yeah, especially when it comes to a big
57:03client. You know, if a big client's
57:04paying me 20,000 plus a month, I just I
57:07I don't want anything to go up without
57:09me seeing it. You know what I mean?
57:11Because you think of things too when you
57:12when you're a SEO at our level,
57:14>> you think of things on the spot that no
57:15one else would probably even think
57:16about. You're like, "Oh, but I could
57:17give an internal link to that while I'm
57:19here. I could do this." And now actually
57:21let me let me give this some links from
57:23these two pages that I made three weeks
57:25ago so it has some juice.
57:27>> That's that's the thing. It's like by by
57:29hiring somebody who's not at your level
57:32you miss out you potentially miss out on
57:34a ton of opportunity.
57:36>> Oh yeah. Yeah. And that's that I think
57:38that's why I've haven't had a problem
57:39with
57:40>> But that's also just training. But
57:41that's just that's also just you know
57:43you got to get better at training
57:44people.
57:44>> True true. Um, so yeah, with with the
57:50with the legal clients and stuff, um, I
57:52think that's why I've had so much
57:53success because I'm probably competing
57:54against some amateur your junior SEO
57:58that's working for an agency. You know,
58:01most of these guys want to hire agencies
58:03because they think big agency. Oh, they
58:04must know what they're doing. They must
58:06be awesome. And I'm not saying they
58:07don't know what they're doing. They
58:08probably do, but at the end of the day,
58:10they're trying to make money. They have
58:11150 law groups that they're servicing.
58:15you know, they're trying to get paid the
58:16most for doing the least. That's that's
58:17that's that's a business's model in a
58:20lot of cases, right? You know, in many
58:22cases. So, the thing is they they're
58:25going to have somebody assigned to that
58:26account and they might put in who knows
58:292 hours a week, 5 hours a week, but then
58:33they're going to go against me and I'm
58:35putting in 25 hours a week, 30 hours a
58:38week, and I'm at such a higher mental
58:42SEO level that there's no way you're
58:44ever they're not going to they're not
58:45going to beat me. They're it's not going
58:47to happen. You know what I mean? Um,
58:50so it's it's it's just I that's what I
58:52try to stress to the to the clients that
58:54I when I try when I'm trying to get a
58:55new legal client is like you're going to
58:57get an actual professional SEO working
59:01on your stuff every day. You know, I'm
59:04going to put in time. I'm going to look
59:06at I'm going to look at your data. I'm
59:07going to be analyzing it. And this yes,
59:09I have people carry out tasks. I have
59:11upworkers, you know, I have people who
59:13carry out very specific tasks that I
59:15know they're good at. web development. I
59:17don't do really hardly any of that. I
59:18have web developers for that, you know,
59:20of course that because that's that's
59:22time consumption, you know. Um, but I
59:24give them the text though. I'm not
59:26trusting them to decide what H2s are on
59:28the page and things like that, right?
59:30So, I give them the text to put into the
59:32page, but I'm not sitting there
59:34developing a web page and making it look
59:36pretty, you know? Um, that's that's a
59:38lot of time, right? So, but I I want to
59:41know exactly what's going on the page,
59:43though. Um,
59:45It's hard. It's hard for me to let go of
59:47that process. So, but but I'm lucky I'm
59:49lucky in the fact that I don't really
59:50need to. Um because it, like I said, I
59:52work on mostly my own stuff and then the
59:55only thing I'm interested now is adding
59:56a few more a few more legal clients and
59:58I'm I'm fine.
1:00:00>> When you put out a press release, how do
1:00:02you Yeah. So, how do you how do you
1:00:03write it? What are mistakes that people
1:00:04make with press releases?
1:00:06>> Um I think I think the biggest mistake
1:00:08they make is they just don't do them. Uh
1:00:11the the reality of life is sometimes
1:00:13it's be it's better to get something
1:00:15done than than to be perfect.
1:00:17>> Yeah, it's true.
1:00:17>> Right. Because and I think that's with
1:00:18most SEOs. Most SEOs are procrastinators
1:00:20and they don't really get things done.
1:00:22I' I've been there. I know what it's
1:00:23like. Um
1:00:25>> wait, how long how long with when you
1:00:27put out a press release on EIN Newswire,
1:00:31how long do they stay indexed for?
1:00:33>> Um it just depends on the release. I
1:00:35I've had them I've had them stay up for
1:00:36for at least a year plus. you know, some
1:00:38some of them just never left. There's
1:00:40stuff that's fully indexed cuz mostly in
1:00:43the legal space cuz some of the legal
1:00:44stuff gets on put on these law sites and
1:00:46I don't even know how it's in the
1:00:47network or, you know, I don't know what
1:00:49their back end is. I'm not really sure
1:00:51obviously what EIN's doing over there,
1:00:53but uh they they uh some of them stick,
1:00:56you know, and and and and they work. But
1:00:58I I put so many of them up, I don't even
1:01:00pay attention, honestly. I I just keep
1:01:02putting more up.
1:01:03>> Looking at the pricing, so you're buying
1:01:06Where are you getting? Oh, 15 number of
1:01:08press releases. So you're So you you
1:01:10spend $1,000. Is it corporate? You spend
1:01:13$1,000 and you get and you get 15 press
1:01:16releases.
1:01:17>> Yeah, I probably spend about 3,000 a
1:01:19month on that at least.
1:01:21>> I mean, dude, that's that's amazing. And
1:01:23so so how long when you put out a press
1:01:25release, how long does it take for it to
1:01:27show up? For it to it should be like
1:01:29really fast.
1:01:30>> Hours. Hours.
1:01:31>> Uh-huh.
1:01:32>> At most.
1:01:33>> Amazing. So hours. and it's staying
1:01:35indexed for like how many you said like
1:01:386 to 12 months or more.
1:01:40>> Yeah. Sometimes permanently, you know
1:01:41what I mean? It might not be ranking
1:01:43crazy good or something like that, but
1:01:44it'll it'll still exist. At least a few
1:01:47of them will survive, you know, like the
1:01:48the the ones on the most authorative
1:01:50sites will survive, you know. And then
1:01:52another key thing, too, is if you're if
1:01:54you're doing it for uh businesses that
1:01:56have GBPs, which obviously most people
1:01:58do, um you want to put your NAP
1:02:00information at the bottom of the press
1:02:01release, too. So, don't forget that it's
1:02:04basically a citation kind of, you know
1:02:06what I mean? It's it's actually a
1:02:07stronger citation than most citation
1:02:08sites because most citation sites don't
1:02:11get indexed at all. Like, at least your
1:02:13page, your your your profile, except for
1:02:16the top 10 or 20 citation sites, none of
1:02:19them really stay indexed unless you get
1:02:21reviews on them and send links to them.
1:02:22Like, they they're not going to get
1:02:23indexed at all. I I run index reports on
1:02:26those all the time for I used to when I
1:02:28used to get new clients and they'd have
1:02:30uh it would they'd say they have all
1:02:32these uh listings. They'd have like a
1:02:34hund of them. I run it through indexing
1:02:36check and it would have like three of
1:02:38them were indexed, you know, maybe four
1:02:40of them, right? So, but it's it's a lot
1:02:43easier to get press releases out or or
1:02:45when I do guest posts, I'll ask that I
1:02:47can put that information at the bottom
1:02:49too as well. I know Jackie, I think it
1:02:51was Jackie Chow had something like that
1:02:53where he was after offering that service
1:02:55too where he was using a PBN and putting
1:02:57the putting the the NAP information on
1:03:00there and stuff like that and that that
1:03:01definitely did work. Probably still
1:03:03works, but um you definitely want your
1:03:05NAP information everywhere you can get
1:03:07it as well as a local business.
1:03:09>> I'm really excited by by having um by
1:03:13press releases and having your AI just
1:03:16understand everything about your
1:03:17business. It knows all of your existing
1:03:20reviews. It understands what your
1:03:23business does and and how your business
1:03:24differentiates
1:03:26>> and it yeah just has all of that stuff
1:03:28and then you say hey uh write a press
1:03:30release on this and then it basically
1:03:32you just automatically writes it
1:03:34schedules it and then maybe you maybe
1:03:37for something like press releases you
1:03:39could probably and removes the AI
1:03:41giveaways as best as it can and then for
1:03:42something like press releases you that's
1:03:44probably something where if it has all
1:03:46the right information maybe then you
1:03:48could have
1:03:51You could have an employee go and like
1:03:52take a look and and just Yeah. and just
1:03:55schedule it and and like you said, put
1:03:57them out super frequently because you
1:04:00just the idea of delusing
1:04:04>> like your branded you Yeah. your branded
1:04:07SERs with positive news is Oh yeah.
1:04:12>> Yeah. It's awesome. It's so val It's so
1:04:15valuable for searchers, for LLMs, for
1:04:19everybody.
1:04:20>> And
1:04:20>> yeah, yeah,
1:04:22>> yeah. If you're like a lawyer or
1:04:23something like that, every time you get
1:04:24a good settlement or anything like that,
1:04:26put it up. Should be a blog post, should
1:04:28be a press release,
1:04:29>> turn it into [clears throat] turn it
1:04:30into other pieces. Yeah. So, you also
1:04:32So, something you texted me, you said,
1:04:33"I'm very proactive, high research,
1:04:36aggressive SEO, but still keep clients
1:04:39safe from any possibility of long-term
1:04:41damage." What does aggressive SEO mean
1:04:42for you?
1:04:44>> Um, aggressive is is is similar to what
1:04:46we were just talking about. You know,
1:04:47the normal person might be like, "Well,
1:04:48we do a press release every month." I'm
1:04:50like, "No, five a week." You know what
1:04:52I'm saying? Like, you know, um, uh,
1:04:54links, I'm not scared of links. I'm not
1:04:56scared of of of getting anchor text
1:05:00links and and doing that. And I think I
1:05:01heard Joy talking about the other day
1:05:02fearing of only doing four or five links
1:05:06a month or I I don't let don't let
1:05:08someone doing that be my competition
1:05:10because that's that's not going to
1:05:11you're not going to you're not going to
1:05:12win. You just have to balance it out.
1:05:14>> So wait, how are you building how talk
1:05:15talk more about how you're building the
1:05:17best links?
1:05:19>> So
1:05:19>> and and why and yeah and why you're
1:05:21getting away with building the types of
1:05:22links that you're building.
1:05:24>> I use I use a couple different ways. The
1:05:26two main ways um I use I copify and I
1:05:29also use Press Wiz, but I also do reach
1:05:32out to local sites. So whether it be
1:05:34anything from sports teams, local sports
1:05:38teams to anything, I'll do searches
1:05:40basically for uh city names and I'll
1:05:43find blogs that just rank in the top 100
1:05:45for a city name. And then I'll just
1:05:46start contacting all of them saying I I
1:05:48pay one to three $1 to $300 or $1 to
1:05:50$500 per post. And I say the money mount
1:05:53right off the bat cuz people don't want
1:05:55to do anything unless they're getting
1:05:56paid in the most cases and and they're
1:05:58not going to be motivated to even
1:05:59respond and if if you don't put
1:06:01something like that in there. Um but the
1:06:04the biggest thing is the most people
1:06:06fail at is is when they use a site like
1:06:08Iopify. I has a lot of trash sites on
1:06:10it. A lot of horrible sites that'll
1:06:12probably ruin your link profile, right?
1:06:14But you just got to put them through the
1:06:16system, man. You just got to you got to
1:06:17put them through Semrush. You got to put
1:06:18them through ah refs and you got to
1:06:20really analyze where they're at. Are
1:06:22they getting traffic on Google? I don't
1:06:24care about DA. I don't care about any of
1:06:25that. I don't look at it at all. Do you
1:06:27rank for the keywords similar to what I
1:06:30want to rank for? If you don't, I don't
1:06:32I don't want to be on your site because
1:06:34cuz what's the point, right? And it
1:06:36doesn't even have to necessarily always
1:06:38be the exact keywords or the exact
1:06:40category, but do you rank for something
1:06:43substantial? not, you know,
1:06:46where's Michael Jackson's house at or
1:06:47what whatever, you know, all those weird
1:06:49ones that have all the weird birth dates
1:06:51and whatever else they rank for to try
1:06:53to to try to fool that, you know, the
1:06:55organic keyword count, you know. So, you
1:06:57got to look into the organic keyword
1:06:58count, but I have but I have Manis do
1:07:00that, too. Manis goes through every
1:07:02site. It gives me a spreadsheet of all
1:07:04the best ones and what keywords they all
1:07:06rank for, you know, and then we I keep
1:07:08that spreadsheet. So when then we go to
1:07:11build the links, it it accesses that
1:07:12spreadsheet again and then uses the best
1:07:15ones out of that batch, you know.
1:07:17>> How about if you see uh if you see that
1:07:19like organic traffic is slowly slowly
1:07:22declining.
1:07:23>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Declining. It it
1:07:26depends.
1:07:26>> Yeah. That's why I'm trying I'm trying
1:07:27to I'm trying to ask questions where
1:07:29there there might be nuance so you could
1:07:30explain like the nuances.
1:07:32>> Yeah. if if there's if there's giant
1:07:36drops, I I'll normally not want to use
1:07:38that site. Um, but as long as they still
1:07:41have a substantial amount of of
1:07:43keywords, I'm not quite as worried. You
1:07:45know, if they drop from a,000 keywords
1:07:48to two and now they only have like
1:07:50nothing and they're dead, then of course
1:07:52that's horrible. But if they had a,000
1:07:54and they're still at 250,
1:07:56200, I mean, they're not gone. You know
1:07:58what I mean? So, so maybe they lost some
1:08:00juice, right? but but but they're not
1:08:02devoured. And then and then maybe I'll
1:08:04just be a little less risky on that
1:08:06site. I'll give myself a brand link or a
1:08:07URL link. I have that built into the
1:08:09system, too. It knows if a site is the
1:08:12it knows the strongest sites, put the
1:08:14anchor text on. The weakest sites in
1:08:16that batch put the URL and brand links
1:08:19on. So, if I'm sending out a link, say I
1:08:23want to get an anchor text link for a
1:08:24page, I'm going to get a brand link and
1:08:26a URL link with it every single time.
1:08:29So that so there's the balance is always
1:08:31kept at all times because ever since
1:08:342012 when I got burnt by penguin I will
1:08:36never get an anchor text
1:08:37>> you said penalty you texted me you said
1:08:39before the penguin update through
1:08:41intense exact keyword linking I once
1:08:44owned the number three spot on Google
1:08:46for movers nationally making over
1:08:49$25,000 a month from one keyword and
1:08:52then he said he said it was taken away
1:08:55overnight along with the rest of our
1:08:58sites and keywords
1:08:59an entire network gone overnight. I had
1:09:02to rebuild and transfer everything to
1:09:05the new domains. We were mass producing
1:09:07pages before AI existed with WordPress
1:09:10plugins we created.
1:09:12>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we did. We ran we
1:09:14we ranked number three. We went from
1:09:16number three and number four all the
1:09:18time. And that was back when they didn't
1:09:20even have like localbased
1:09:23pages ranking for the terms. when you
1:09:25rank when you when you search something
1:09:27generalist generalistically like that
1:09:28back then
1:09:30>> sometimes they didn't even have the map
1:09:31pack showing you know what I mean and
1:09:33they and they and they didn't have the
1:09:36specific city pages in your area showing
1:09:38either they just showed a national
1:09:40answer basically so to speak right
1:09:42>> um so yeah that key it was getting so
1:09:45much traffic it was it was it was insane
1:09:47you know and it it lasted for about four
1:09:49months and then Penguin came along and
1:09:52just it wiped our entire network out it
1:09:54wiped out everything. Um, we had to we
1:09:56had to switch everything to nets.
1:09:57Everything was dot com. So, we had to
1:09:59move everything and uh some stuff we
1:10:02that we just left alone and never messed
1:10:05with came back eventually. Um, that that
1:10:07that we didn't care about as much at the
1:10:09time, but we just left it cuz we weren't
1:10:11worried about it. It came back on its
1:10:13own. The cool thing is I have some sites
1:10:15that are so old that I never touch. I
1:10:17don't do anything with. I watch them
1:10:20during updates, Google updates, and they
1:10:22go up and they go back down and they go
1:10:24back up. They'll they'll be up for like
1:10:25a year. They'll get like a bunch of
1:10:27traffic and then they'll go and then
1:10:28they'll just disappear again. And I
1:10:30these are sites that I just don't have
1:10:32no value, but I keep them there just to
1:10:33watch their data. It's kind of it's it's
1:10:35kind of interesting to see. Um but yeah,
1:10:38so before AI, we used to use the spins,
1:10:40you know, uh
1:10:42>> spinners. Oh, it used to it used to take
1:10:44me like two weeks to make a spin because
1:10:47in eight hours a day, two weeks at least
1:10:50because we we'd spin it at the at at
1:10:53every single level. We'd spin the
1:10:54phrases and then we'd have like 20
1:10:56different sentence options and then we'd
1:10:58have 10 different paragraph options and
1:11:00then we'd have like all the lists and
1:11:02everything would have hundreds of
1:11:04different options and stuff like that.
1:11:05So, and then we we built a plugin for
1:11:08WordPress. We had a programmer build a
1:11:10plugin and it could it could instantly
1:11:12build a site with like 900 cities on it
1:11:15just like from the from one spin, right?
1:11:19So, and this is this was back in 2010.
1:11:22So, it it it all those pages would rank
1:11:24like instantaneously like we we we'd
1:11:27find a moving term or a locksmith term
1:11:29and these were all like niche sites. So,
1:11:31they'd be like instead of just locksmith
1:11:33it would be like car keyreplacement.net
1:11:35net or or whatever, you know, and and
1:11:38then it would develop a city page for
1:11:40every single city in America, every
1:11:42every city over a certain population,
1:11:44you know,
1:11:44>> using Wait, so it was a content spinner.
1:11:46It was
1:11:48>> Yeah. Yeah. It was a content spinner,
1:11:49but also published the pages. So, we we
1:11:51built our own plugin to to do that. And
1:11:53then I took that a step further. See how
1:11:55we This is how we won movers. We There
1:11:58used to be sites back then. I don't even
1:11:59remember what half of them were called,
1:12:01but they they were like basically PBN's
1:12:03and they had a crapload of sites on them
1:12:05and you could just basically give them a
1:12:07spun article and they'd put it across
1:12:10their network, right? Or you could give
1:12:12them multiple articles and they put
1:12:13across their network. So, we had that
1:12:15same programmer develop a system to
1:12:17where we could put a spin in and it
1:12:19would submit it to all those sites. It
1:12:22would it would submit that spin to all
1:12:24those sites. So, I was getting like 300
1:12:27direct anchor text movers links a day
1:12:30to this page over and over and over
1:12:32again cuz back then you you could do as
1:12:34many of them as you wanted. It didn't it
1:12:36didn't it didn't matter and and none of
1:12:38us really saw it coming until like about
1:12:406 months before things started like
1:12:43shifting. You could tell they were
1:12:44trying to do something but you couldn't
1:12:47really put your thumb on it for sure.
1:12:48There was a lot less information out
1:12:49back then. You listen to Matt Cuts,
1:12:51right? And that was that was really
1:12:52about that was all that was mostly it.
1:12:54Search engine land or something maybe
1:12:56that was around you know blog post.
1:12:58>> What do you think uh what do you think
1:12:59the next major
1:13:02like up what do you think the next
1:13:03penguin will be? The next panda will be
1:13:05like um David David came David Quaid
1:13:08came on the podcast a couple weeks ago
1:13:10and he said he thinks it'll be kind of
1:13:12machine scaled content.
1:13:14>> Um yeah.
1:13:15>> Yeah. Yeah. Like that's basically where
1:13:17like Google's spam attention is focused
1:13:20right now.
1:13:22>> Yeah. I I think my my theory is that a
1:13:24lot almost anything can be done if it's
1:13:27done with an insane amount of thought
1:13:30and perfection. You know what I mean?
1:13:32>> I I do I do know what you mean and I I
1:13:34agree actually very strongly. But I
1:13:36think the reason I the reason I I never
1:13:38recommend stuff like that is because I
1:13:40know what the average SEO
1:13:42>> and the average SEO Nope.
1:13:44>> Nope. And they're not gonna pay they're
1:13:46not going to pay some upworker to go
1:13:47through every single page.
1:13:49>> To be and to be fair, when you are doing
1:13:51that, you are literally going up against
1:13:54the highest paid some of the best
1:13:57developers in the world who have all of
1:13:59the data. So you were just you were
1:14:01trying to outsmart Google
1:14:03>> and and it's like [clears throat]
1:14:05you you might be successful for a couple
1:14:08of months like you said you were
1:14:09successful for 4 months you made so what
1:14:11you made like 100 grand
1:14:13>> and it's like yeah you might be success
1:14:14cuz you 25,000 times four so
1:14:17>> you might be successful for a couple of
1:14:19months but it's like
1:14:21>> to me the best successes that you get
1:14:23are when you have when you can figure
1:14:26out something that compounds
1:14:27>> when you can get the hockey stick growth
1:14:29That's for me. That's what I care about.
1:14:31I'm very happy to start wildly slow
1:14:35where people will look at me and be
1:14:37like, "What is he doing?" And if you
1:14:39look at this podcast that that like,
1:14:42>> you know, I've been doing this for like
1:14:433 years now, over three years now.
1:14:45>> Yeah.
1:14:45>> And and people probably looked at me at
1:14:48the beginning like, "What is this guy
1:14:49doing?"
1:14:50>> Yeah. Yeah. And and the thought process
1:14:51is totally different on a brand like
1:14:53like see like a brand you have is more
1:14:55similar to like my music side. Um, when
1:14:58I when I think about uh um music and
1:15:00marketing music and marketing an artist,
1:15:02you know, I've managed a lot of artists.
1:15:04I've I've produced a lot of artists and
1:15:06um
1:15:06>> Yeah. You said you made music for for
1:15:09exhibit for for
1:15:10>> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
1:15:11>> for the twins.
1:15:13>> Yeah. I've I've brought artists out of
1:15:15out of nowhere. Um the artist uh
1:15:17Futuristic, we we started out from
1:15:20scratch basically. Um and I produced and
1:15:22marketed him all the way into big big
1:15:25success.
1:15:25>> Well, yeah. You told you told me that
1:15:27you said so uh okay here we go. This is
1:15:31what it was. Okay. You said yeah. The
1:15:33artist Futuristic that I produced and
1:15:35helped market um is the biggest
1:15:38independent rapper ever out of Arizona.
1:15:41>> You said
1:15:43you were making $4,000 a month and in
1:15:47earnings and then you took him to
1:15:48$200,000 a month over overnight because
1:15:51of
1:15:52>> Oh, a Compton music video.
1:15:55>> Yeah. So, so we we had already had some
1:15:57steam, you know, we we had about two or
1:15:59three years under our belt. So, to give
1:16:01a quick quick little history, I'll make
1:16:02it fast, but uh I I had saw him out and
1:16:06noticed his talent, right? And then he
1:16:07had come to my place to and I engineered
1:16:09him a little bit and I said, "You know
1:16:10what? Let's just let's just go half.
1:16:11I'll do everything for free. I'll
1:16:13produce everything. I'll engineer
1:16:14everything. I'll market everything." I
1:16:16had the I had the abilities to do those
1:16:18things. So, I I I was like, "Let's just
1:16:20do that and let's see what we can do."
1:16:22It was the first time I put all in on an
1:16:23artist. I was like, "Let's just let's
1:16:24just go for it."
1:16:25>> How much money was was he making at that
1:16:27point?
1:16:28>> That was,000.
1:16:29>> Well, when I Yeah. Once we got him
1:16:32going, he wasn't even making when he
1:16:34came to me.
1:16:34>> He wasn't making it when he came to me.
1:16:36Nothing. Nothing. He No. Um, the one the
1:16:38one benefit he did come with as well, he
1:16:40came with a videographer. He had this
1:16:41videographer named Jacob Owens who was
1:16:43really, really talented. Um, and back
1:16:45then, not many videographers were that
1:16:46good like him. He was he was he was a
1:16:48big part of our success. Um, so yeah, so
1:16:52I met I met him and then I knew he had
1:16:54the video guy in place too. So that
1:16:56enticed me to know, okay, we could we
1:16:58could we have the triangle here. We can
1:16:59do this, right? So, um, we went really
1:17:01hard. We knew our audience. We knew it's
1:17:03the college credit. We knew exactly who
1:17:04we wanted. Back then, you could get on
1:17:05blogs, music blogs, and if you got on
1:17:08the front page of a music blog for a
1:17:10day, it was 10,000 views on YouTube,
1:17:11guaranteed. It was it was, you know, a
1:17:13different game. But we came up that way.
1:17:16got did features with uh people from
1:17:18Funk Volume. I don't know if you heard
1:17:19of Hopson and all those guys, but like
1:17:22um work with a lot of people to build
1:17:24them up. We got him to a certain level
1:17:26and that got the attention of a guy who
1:17:27does pranks on YouTube, you know,
1:17:31through through a mutual friend. And he
1:17:33used to this guy was doing pranks. He'd
1:17:34go into Compton, California, which is
1:17:36known for like being a gangster
1:17:39place, right? Like people are scared to
1:17:41go to, right? So he would he'd be nerd
1:17:43raps in Compton. he'd make these nerd
1:17:45raps in Compton videos. But he was a
1:17:46decent rapper, right? He he was okay.
1:17:50But when he had he invited Futuristic,
1:17:52he said, "Do you want to do a nerd rap?
1:17:53Would you do a nerd raps in Compton and
1:17:55be the nerd?" And he's like, "Sure." He
1:17:56didn't think he didn't think Futuristic
1:17:58would say yes. Cuz rappers, you know, a
1:17:59lot of them their persona, they don't
1:18:01want to they want to be cool, right? Or
1:18:03whatever. So, but Futuristic has a
1:18:05different uh a different swag. It's not
1:18:08like that, you know? It's more of a fun
1:18:09style. So, um he did it and we didn't
1:18:13think nothing of it. We were like, "Oh,
1:18:14it might be huge. It might not." You
1:18:16know, and he he he performed one of his
1:18:18songs in the nerd rap video and it just
1:18:21went nuts. It just it went everybody was
1:18:24sharing it. Every major artist was
1:18:26sharing it. Everybody was all over the
1:18:28place. Um
1:18:30>> that's how you went from $4,000 a month
1:18:32to $200,000
1:18:33>> to $200,000. Yeah. And this was also
1:18:35back when iTunes was still living as
1:18:38well. So, we were getting the digital
1:18:40downloads, albums, album downloads were
1:18:42like hundreds of album downloads a day,
1:18:44just all day long, you know. Um, he
1:18:47ended up on Jimmy Fallon and all kinds
1:18:49of stuff. He he he did he did really
1:18:51well. He did really well. Then we sold
1:18:52his catalog for $2.5 million to
1:18:54Universal. Yeah. Not going to say I got
1:18:57the big chunk of that because he did he
1:19:00did a lot more after that too that that
1:19:02made that catalog much larger as well
1:19:05after our relationship too, you know.
1:19:07Um, but it was still a big win for both
1:19:08of us. But yeah, so it's it's uh it's a
1:19:12tale that, you know, you can do things
1:19:14independently, you know what I mean? And
1:19:15that's why I like what you're doing. I
1:19:17had a buddy um who was going live every
1:19:20day uh more for music type stuff and I
1:19:23was always thought that was awesome that
1:19:25he did it, you know, that he was doing
1:19:26that. Um, but then I saw you were doing
1:19:29I was like this is even more beneficial
1:19:31because this is like in in a world where
1:19:33money's actually exchanged [laughter]
1:19:35where there's like a lot more business
1:19:37and a lot more um specific interest,
1:19:40right? So when you get to music it's
1:19:43broad interest, right? So you come and
1:19:45go. People are interested in you for a
1:19:47while then they're not. But basically as
1:19:49long as Edward keeps bringing good
1:19:51information, they're interested, right?
1:19:53So so it's it's like you can keep keep
1:19:55continuing and keep and keep the
1:19:56interest level up. So, I think it's
1:19:57really awesome, you know. It's really
1:19:59awesome what you're doing.
1:20:00>> Yeah. Well, I'm I mean, I'm lucky to
1:20:02have very interesting guests like you on
1:20:04the show several times a week cuz like
1:20:06you you are sharing very cool things.
1:20:10What are um what are some lessons from
1:20:13marketing lessons from music that like
1:20:15you can that you maybe apply to SEO?
1:20:18Marketing and branding lessons from
1:20:19music that you apply to SEO. I I apply
1:20:23lots of marketing and branding lessons
1:20:24to the SEO that I do. I think it's
1:20:27extremely important.
1:20:30>> Um uh maybe just a little bit of the
1:20:32visual stuff, you know. Um I work in
1:20:35boring industries kind of so to speak
1:20:38when it comes to SEO, so it's it's a
1:20:40little harder to to to apply it that
1:20:42way. Honestly, I applied it more the
1:20:44other way around.
1:20:45>> Personal injury law can be interesting.
1:20:48>> True. True. It could. It could. So can
1:20:50home services.
1:20:51>> Yes. C certain ones certain ones like
1:20:53painting like if you want to show a time
1:20:55lapse on painting or a house painting or
1:20:57>> I don't think I don't think anybody
1:20:59would say that pressure washing was
1:21:01interesting 10 10 years ago
1:21:03>> and and and now with the sped up
1:21:06pressure washing b videos which are like
1:21:10addicting on Tik Tok
1:21:12>> like it's like oh yeah of course what
1:21:14well like I I'm I could cuz I like I was
1:21:17one of the early viral video producers
1:21:19on YouTube. Me and my friends, we were
1:21:20making viral videos
1:21:21>> on YouTube literally like when it
1:21:23launched.
1:21:24>> And uh yeah, we like we went on some of
1:21:27the biggest TV shows in the in the US.
1:21:29We were on Good Morning America. We were
1:21:31flown out to LA um like many many years
1:21:34ago. We were flown out to LA by NBC to
1:21:37be on the Jeff Probe show.
1:21:38>> Um I think it was NBC. Uh yeah, by
1:21:41making viral videos on on YouTube. And
1:21:45um
1:21:47>> so I come from the perspective that you
1:21:49can make anything interesting and you
1:21:52can make and that's one of the reasons
1:21:53that I like SEO so much too is because
1:21:55when you go viral with your brand the
1:21:58amount like I've seen people just with a
1:22:01new site
1:22:02>> go viral and rank for their super
1:22:05competitive target keyword with a new
1:22:08brandable domain. not like an exact
1:22:10match domain, just a completely new
1:22:13site, new brand that nobody's ever heard
1:22:16of that doesn't sound like anything,
1:22:18>> but they they have their keyword in the
1:22:21homepage's page title and they go viral
1:22:24and overnight they're ranking number one
1:22:26for this crazy competitive keyword
1:22:29>> and or you have [clears throat] like a
1:22:30some side project that goes viral and
1:22:33it's a it's like a a satellite site and
1:22:36then you link that to your parent site
1:22:38>> and like these
1:22:40And no link building budget can buy the
1:22:44success that you get with a viral
1:22:46linkable asset or a viral stunt. No link
1:22:49building budget can buy that.
1:22:51>> Well, yeah. Yeah. Cuz they have that,
1:22:52you know, Google has all that Chrome
1:22:53data and they they they see that they
1:22:55see that people are coming. They they
1:22:56see the virality even of of a site like
1:22:58you're speaking of, you know, they they
1:23:00they see all that stuff. Um, yeah. You
1:23:03know, one of the ways I used it reverse
1:23:05too was uh for remixes. So, how we'd
1:23:09break an artist sometimes is we would we
1:23:12would find out when a song video was
1:23:14going to come out. We would we would
1:23:15know, okay, this person said they're
1:23:17dropping their music video for this song
1:23:20on this date. So, we're like, okay, we
1:23:22got to make a remix right now. Make a
1:23:24remix and then we would drop it like two
1:23:27hours before they actually drop their
1:23:28music video. So, people are already
1:23:30searching
1:23:30>> Yeah. uh their fans are already
1:23:32searching for it and then they find us
1:23:34instead, you know, and then, you know,
1:23:36add 10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 views in the
1:23:39first day, you know.
1:23:40>> Dude, I made a I made I I don't know if
1:23:42you if you heard this podcast. It came
1:23:44out a couple days ago was like this
1:23:46Danish telco or something. Danish,
1:23:48Norwegian, was a European uh telco. And
1:23:52yeah,
1:23:53>> so for the announcement of a new Apple
1:23:57iPhone, I think it's like you're not
1:23:59allowed to write about the iPhone before
1:24:02it comes out or else like as a telco
1:24:04then like Google will be very not Google
1:24:07Apple will be very strict and will not
1:24:09allow you to sell that
1:24:11to sell that iPhone if you're writing
1:24:13about it before it's released. Um, and
1:24:15so, uh, what the the SEO for this like
1:24:20European telco, again, I don't remember
1:24:22the country, this is just a few episodes
1:24:24ago, what what this person did is he or
1:24:29she had um other like partner sites
1:24:33writing rumors about about the new
1:24:36iPhone about the new iPhone and the
1:24:38iPhone model writing rumors. Yeah. And
1:24:40then this SEO is going is is going to
1:24:43the Apple announcement is sitting there
1:24:46live writing up what Tim Cook is is
1:24:50showing on on stage u writing that all
1:24:53up publishing it and then that comes out
1:24:56and then immediately the rumor sites
1:25:00which or the the rumor pages which are
1:25:02ranking are all linking to this new page
1:25:06from the from the telco. So the new page
1:25:08is on a high uh domain authority site
1:25:11already and then it's getting
1:25:12immediately it's getting these links
1:25:14from these pages that are ranking for
1:25:17the target keyword which is the new
1:25:19iPhone model or just iPhone. And so the
1:25:22success was by doing this for like the
1:25:25first 3 days of an iPhone launch this
1:25:29this telco was ranking number one above
1:25:32Apple for just iPhone and the iPhone
1:25:35model. Yeah,
1:25:38>> you you got to think outside the box,
1:25:40you know, a little bit uh w with SEO. Um
1:25:43especially if you're trying to compete
1:25:44for highly competitive keywords, you
1:25:46know, um
1:25:48you know, the parasite SEO is a very
1:25:50exciting fun thing. Um of course, uh
1:25:54utilizing other sites power and whatnot.
1:25:56Um there's so many there's so many
1:25:58opportunities for that constantly, you
1:26:01know. um in local SEO it's it's there
1:26:06but a little less there you know um
1:26:08because it really boils back down to
1:26:10what we talked about in the beginning of
1:26:11of this is is is your reviews and and
1:26:15all that stuff because if that if that's
1:26:16not a place everything else falls
1:26:18basically how I look at it is like are
1:26:21the reviews the only thing they're
1:26:22important hell no but if they're not
1:26:25there everything else means nothing so
1:26:28you could have your site perfect you
1:26:30could have the best links you could have
1:26:31everything else amazing. If you only
1:26:34have two reviews,
1:26:36none of that's going to matter at all.
1:26:39You're probably not going to rank very
1:26:40good. You're not going to have much
1:26:41trust because Google's not going to
1:26:44trust your site as much anyways because
1:26:45the GBP is not doesn't have any real
1:26:47trust. And so, like, uh, it's it's very
1:26:51interesting how how important that is
1:26:53and how unimportant some like business
1:26:56owners will like how they'll think about
1:26:59that. They don't really, it's even hard
1:27:01to get it across to them sometimes. You,
1:27:02you know, they'll like they they'll say
1:27:04things like, "Well, we just we're not
1:27:05very good at getting reviews." I'm like,
1:27:06"Well, you need to get good at getting
1:27:08reviews [laughter]
1:27:11or I can't work with you. There's
1:27:12there's no you're not you're not I'm not
1:27:14going to be able to help you win if if
1:27:16you can't get them, you know. So, if if
1:27:18there's anything I want to drill into
1:27:19people's heads before I get off here in
1:27:21a minute is is is don't slack on
1:27:24reviews. Don't and reviews everywhere."
1:27:28Now, if you want to rank on AI, you
1:27:30better get them everywhere, not just one
1:27:31place, all over the place. And then,
1:27:33like we said, just also get links to
1:27:36those entities, whatever you got to do
1:27:37to fill that first page with all the
1:27:41good stuff about you, you know, period.
1:27:44You know, that that that's how you win.
1:27:46I've done you you can do um you can you
1:27:51can do research. I I take Manis and I
1:27:54have it go to all the top 10 LLM models
1:27:57and I'll give it like 40 different
1:28:00keyword keywords to look at and then
1:28:03I'll have it analyze all of the reasons
1:28:06they're showing up there like find out
1:28:08all the citations for every single one
1:28:10and then it'll give me a report of all
1:28:12the very most important basically
1:28:15directories to get on. Um and some some
1:28:18of the times it'll have random sites as
1:28:19well in that mix, right? But it's very
1:28:21easy to figure out where you need to be,
1:28:24you know. Um, you can just ask it. You
1:28:26could just be on chat GBT and ask it.
1:28:28How did you come to this conclusion?
1:28:30What did you look at? Oh, why did you
1:28:32look at that? You know, it'll it's not
1:28:34like Google trying to hide something.
1:28:36Chat GPT will tell you why it did
1:28:38something. You know, it it'll basically
1:28:40give you its algorithm. It'll just tell
1:28:43you what it did and you're like, "Oh,
1:28:44okay. Cool. So, I need to
1:28:47work on work on that site." Right? So,
1:28:50um, but yeah. Yeah. So, just just just
1:28:52focus on that. F focus on the right
1:28:54sites, you know,
1:28:56get your stuff everywhere. Don't don't
1:28:59be scared to to put stuff out. And if
1:29:00you're a if you're an SEO, if you have a
1:29:02plan, if you have an idea,
1:29:04implement it. Just do it. Like people
1:29:08people just sit back and they don't they
1:29:09don't really implement those ideas they
1:29:11have or they don't do it to the fullest.
1:29:13That you you have to like really do it
1:29:15do it for a long period of time to see
1:29:17if it's going to work. Um
1:29:20and even if it takes a lot of boring
1:29:22repetitive work um cuz you you can hand
1:29:26it off eventually but you have to
1:29:27initially do the work so you can know
1:29:29how it's supposed to be done right. So
1:29:31some people skip that part and hand it
1:29:34off already and then the whole system is
1:29:36not what it was supposed to be in the
1:29:37first place because the system was
1:29:38created by someone else without your
1:29:42knowledge. Right? So you have to be able
1:29:44to sit there and create a system um and
1:29:47then and then have it implemented at a
1:29:48high level, you know. So yeah,
1:29:52>> you are a legend. Thank you for coming
1:29:53on. Thank you for listening to the show.
1:29:55Thanks for for coming on the show. Like
1:29:57this is
1:29:58>> No, thanks for having me, man. I
1:29:59appreciate you, man. I I was excited to
1:30:01come on here, man. I'm excited to talk
1:30:03to you and I'll be watching you again
1:30:05this morning when I go get my when I go
1:30:07get my morning coffee again.
1:30:08>> Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a
1:30:10good episode that I just put out right
1:30:12before this. This with David Quaid and
1:30:14TJ Robertson
1:30:15>> about making uh Yeah. self-healing AI
1:30:18sites.
1:30:19>> Yep. I already glanced at it a little
1:30:20bit this morning before I came on. Yeah.
1:30:22So, yeah. Big fan, man. Big fan.
1:30:24>> Where where should everybody find you?
1:30:27>> Um honestly, I I have a site called
1:30:29brainspikemarketing.com.
1:30:31Especially if you're an injury lawyer,
1:30:32get a hold of me. Um other than that,
1:30:35man, I'm just here for information. You
1:30:36know what I mean? Like if if people want
1:30:38to contact me, just talk. that's great.
1:30:39You know what I mean? But I I just came
1:30:41on to share what I can share and
1:30:43hopefully it helps somebody and and and
1:30:45that's that's really all you know. Um I
1:30:48I I'm I'm in a different world. You
1:30:50know, some some SEOs um as you like
1:30:52yourself or a Matt Diggity or anybody
1:30:54else, you know, you you guys that's
1:30:56that's that's part of your your career
1:30:59is to you know, supply information to
1:31:01other SEOs and to other people like like
1:31:04that and stuff. And um for me, my mine
1:31:06is very specific to just just my
1:31:08businesses and a very small group of
1:31:10clients, right? So um it it's it's I
1:31:14have a little little different goals as
1:31:16far as that end, right, in the SEO
1:31:17world. Um but I really respect what you
1:31:20guys are doing big time because you're
1:31:22giving really great information to to to
1:31:24all of us. Um and something that didn't
1:31:26exist 10 years ago basically and it's
1:31:28it's very helpful. Very helpful. So
1:31:30>> yeah, I I was thinking about this the
1:31:32other day. I think my information has
1:31:35made businesses multiple billions of
1:31:39dollars because like
1:31:40>> Oh, guaranteed.
1:31:40>> Yeah, guaranteed.
1:31:41>> Easily. Not just with this probably in
1:31:44maybe even in the tens cuz like my
1:31:46audience on Instagram and Tik Tok is
1:31:50crazy. And this podcast is like
1:31:53>> and the people and like the business
1:31:55owners who listen to this podcast like
1:31:57>> there's a lot of people who are new but
1:31:59there's a lot of people who have hundred
1:32:01million dollar a year plus businesses
1:32:04and
1:32:05>> well yeah I mean your your DNA is baked
1:32:07into my AI system. So like like like
1:32:10like like like like your cast and then
1:32:13um my brain and a couple other things
1:32:16are all shoved into
1:32:18into Manis and it has all that
1:32:21information, you know what I mean, from
1:32:23from the cast that are relevant to what
1:32:25I do, right? And and so it's like the
1:32:27DNA of your podcast is like in there and
1:32:29sometimes it's funny. It'll it'll
1:32:31because it'll bring up stuff. Sometimes
1:32:32it'll be like, "Hey, do you want to do
1:32:33this like we like we learned in this co
1:32:35in this one cast?" And like, "Yeah,
1:32:37let's do that." You know? So, it's uh I
1:32:40get reminded that you're in there
1:32:41sometimes. [laughter] So, it's it's
1:32:43really cool. Really cool.
1:32:44>> Yeah. Thank you, Matt.
1:32:45>> Y for sure.
1:32:47>> All right. This is episode 1,135
1:32:51of the show. 1,135
1:32:54days in a row doing this podcast. Let's
1:32:58go.
1:32:59>> Killing it. Killing it. Killing it.
1:33:00>> Oh yeah.
1:33:02>> If you watch us on YouTube, thank you so
1:33:04much for watching. If you listened on
1:33:06Spotify or Apple Podcasts, thank you so
1:33:09much for listening and I will talk to
1:33:11you again tomorrow.

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of The Local SEO Playbook Behind a Law Firm Doing $100M in 6 Months | Matt Hammerton by Edward Sturm, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 19,676 words across 2,733 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to choose a caption track available on the video.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, caption language selection, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.