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The Leading Sex Expert: How To Have Great Sex EVERY Time! (And Fix Bad Sex): Tracey Cox | E247 — Transcript

by The Diary Of A CEO · 21,544 words · 3,218 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00You've written 17 books on the topic of
0:03sex. So, my first question, how do we
0:05have the best sex of our lives? That's
0:07the question everybody wants to know.
0:09The first thing is Tracy Cox. The
0:11world's most celebrated sex expert.
0:14She's got the answers to the questions
0:15you've always wanted to know and has a
0:17secret to a great sex life. There is a
0:20decline of sex, isn't there?
0:21Yes, there's a sex recession. If you
0:23haven't had sex for a year with your
0:25partner, it is very unlikely you're
0:27going to have sex again. Oh, really? Are
0:29you hopeful that we can turn that
0:30around? Yes, absolutely. The key thing
0:33is women fake their orgasms. We have
0:35known that women don't orgasm through
0:37penetrative sex since Kama Sutra. And
0:40yet most men will go, "Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
0:42I've heard about that." Women aren't
0:43having very many orgasms during partner
0:45sex. They're always fake. The way to
0:47solve the whole orgasm thing is How do
0:49we predict if someone's going to cheat
0:51on us? Number one, being close doesn't
0:53actually protect you against infidelity.
0:55You become so close to your partner that
0:57you're best friend, you just don't see
0:59them as a sexual partner anymore. If you
1:00understand how sex works and if you can
1:03make sex good with your partner, affairs
1:05can be so preventable in so many
1:07different ways.
1:08Women get bored way quicker than men.
1:10Men don't get bored because they get the
1:12orgasm as a reward. You need to give
1:14women interesting erotic sex and then
1:16they'll be interested. Otherwise,
1:17they're not going to be interested.
1:18I've noticed a trend that amongst my
1:21friendship group, a startling amount of
1:22them are in sexless relationships. Yep.
1:25What are some of the most important
1:26solutions? If you want to have great
1:28sex, you need
1:30That's what you have to do if you want a
1:31good sex life.
1:32I think that's phenomenal advice.
1:35I have some breaking news.
1:38And no, this is an emergency. I've spent
1:40the last 2 years writing a book and I've
1:44written 33 laws for business, marketing,
1:48and life that I derive from all of these
1:49conversations I've had here. I traveled
1:51the world to write this book. I
1:52interviewed some of the most incredible
1:53people. I did
1:556 months of extensive research on
1:59scientific studies and principles to
2:01corroborate everything that I wrote into
2:02these 33 laws. And ladies and gentlemen,
2:06that book called The Diary of a CEO, the
2:0933 laws for business, marketing, and
2:13life
2:15is now available for pre-order.
2:19And there are 5,000,
2:21only 5,000, signed copies.
2:26And it's first come, first serve.
2:28The link is in the bio right now. So, if
2:30you want that book, honestly, it's the
2:31best book I've ever written. It's the
2:32book I always should have written. It's
2:34the book I also wish someone had written
2:35for me when I was starting out in my
2:36career.
2:38I'm really proud of it. I'm really,
2:40really proud of it. Really, really proud
2:42of it.
2:43And I can't wait for all of you to get
2:44to read it. It's out in August. I
2:46couldn't be more excited about this as
2:47you can probably tell. I don't know what
2:48to say to say other than the words I've
2:50said to emphasize my excitement cuz I
2:53think it's important and I think it's
2:54really valuable. Um,
2:55link in the description.
3:04Tracy,
3:05I
3:06reached out to my team and I told my
3:08team that I wanted to have a
3:09conversation with
3:12the individual in the world that was
3:16best and most educated and most
3:19engaging on the subject matter of sex
3:22because I've noticed a bunch of things
3:24in my personal life and the lives of my
3:26friends and those around me. Um, and I
3:28feel like people aren't having the right
3:30types of conversation about sex. I feel
3:33like we're avoiding it as a society and
3:34I feel like sex is so intrinsically
3:36linked to performance and well-being and
3:38business and all the things I usually
3:39talk about. So, they found you and
3:41that's why you're here. So, my first
3:43question is
3:46who are you and what do you do? What is
3:48your mission?
3:49Right, I'm not a trained sex therapist,
3:52which is what everybody thinks I am. I'm
3:54a sex educator. Um, which is which I
3:58think means that what I do is I look at
4:01all the research and look at all the the
4:03sort of what's going on in the sex world
4:04in sort of in academic sense. And then I
4:07work out, okay, so that's all well and
4:09good, but what does this mean for you
4:11and I? Well, not necessarily you and I
4:13together, but people in the bedroom. So,
4:16I bring it down to a sort of level that
4:18is more practical, that all my books are
4:21very much like, right, so here's what we
4:22now know about sex, here's how this is
4:24going to help you in bed. So, I think my
4:27job is to sort of get the research and
4:29make it into something that, you know,
4:31the average person can understand and
4:34make it work for them. So, I sort of,
4:36yeah, I'm a I'm a sex educator is a
4:38better way to describe me.
4:39You know, part of the reason I wanted to
4:41speak to you, as I said at the start of
4:42this conversation, is because I've
4:44noticed a trend. I started to like
4:47smell it amongst my friendship group
4:48where
4:49a startling amount of them are in
4:51sexless relationships.
4:52Yep. And they're not they're not, you
4:54know, your book here says great sex
4:56starts at 50. My friends are the friends
4:58I'm talking about are in their 30s. Yes.
5:00And I I
5:02And there's lots of things here. There's
5:03lots of thoughts and I want to figure
5:04out which ones are true. So,
5:06I'm I'm going to say a bunch of things
5:08which are inherently naive and I know
5:09they are. So, the first one is like, why
5:11aren't they having sex uh more often and
5:14and is that a is that a problem? Are
5:16their partners to blame because they
5:18seem to want to have sex and their
5:19partners don't? Um, is it wrong? Are
5:22those relationships therefore broken and
5:24should they break up with their partners
5:25because they're not having that much
5:26sex? Um, so we'll go into all of that,
5:29but let's start with this this the point
5:31you raised about how
5:33lust and love
5:35are not necessarily great bedfellows.
5:39Um, how does one, if they're in that
5:41situation where they really love their
5:42partner, they're really, really close to
5:43their partner, um, but they're feeling
5:45like the intimacy has ran out the back
5:48door because of, you know, that sexual
5:50intimacy has ran out the back door, how
5:52do we create that balance? You talk
5:53about something called otherness, which
5:55I thought was really compelling. In in
5:57your new book.
5:58Such a such a
6:00big question that is because that's the
6:02question everybody wants to know, how do
6:03you keep desire going long-term?
6:05Um, the otherness thing is all about it
6:09the close couples kind of become like
6:11Tweedledum and Tweedledee. They don't do
6:13anything separately. But you you need to
6:16have separateness from your partner. And
6:17this is why during COVID no one had sex
6:19at all. In the beginning it was like,
6:20fantastic, we can have sex at 11:00 in
6:22the morning. And then it was like, oh,
6:24we can have sex anytime we want. How
6:25unappealing is that? You know, the more
6:27available something is, the less we want
6:29it. But the you need to separate from
6:32your partner. You need to
6:34be
6:35you know, have your own identity and
6:37your identity with your partner. And
6:38that's the otherness that I talk about
6:40is seeing your partner
6:43in the real world and seeing them when
6:45you're not with them. Like so many
6:47couples only ever see each other at home
6:50in their house. They never see each
6:52other out. And if you go out, I remember
6:54once
6:55very early on into the relationship with
6:57my husband, Miles, he was walking
7:00through restaurant and I'd arrived first
7:02and he hadn't seen me. I was he was
7:03walking through the restaurant and I saw
7:05a couple of women look over at him and I
7:07was like, [ __ ] you know, he's really
7:10attractive. Well, I knew that, but he's,
7:12you know, and if I don't, you know, he's
7:14he's out there all the time, you know,
7:16like people are going to be attracted to
7:17him. So, it sort of makes you lift your
7:19game a bit. So, you need that. If you
7:21see your partner at home and you, you
7:22know, hi, hi, you only ever see them
7:24come through the front door, they become
7:27too safe. And I think when people say,
7:30"Oh, my partner would never cheat on
7:31me." I think, how rude is that to think
7:35that your partner's never going to cheat
7:37on you, no matter what you do to them,
7:38no matter how horrible you are? That's
7:40terrible. That's like saying your
7:42partner,
7:43you know, is just a doormat that you can
7:44do whatever. I like to think that, you
7:46know, my partner's not going to cheat on
7:48me, but, you know, that makes me think
7:50that if I pledge monogamy, I pledge that
7:53I'm going to sexually satisfy my
7:54partner. I think you have an obligation
7:56to do that. And I'm going to keep myself
7:58looking good because love is, you know,
8:00kind, but it's not blind. And I'm going
8:03to do all sorts of things. I think it's
8:04a real insult. If some If Miles said to
8:06me, "I know you'd never cheat on me."
8:07I'd be like, "Huh."
8:09I don't take that as a compliment, would
8:11you?
8:12Um, I think it's important to know that
8:16your partner will go and leave you if
8:19you drop the ball in a variety of
8:21different ways. And I think that one of
8:22the interesting points you raised there
8:23is about like physical appearance or
8:26keeping yourself well or keeping
8:27yourself attractive. Do you think, and
8:29I've asked a few people this over time,
8:31do you think we have an obligation to
8:32stay
8:34in shape, attractive, whatever it might
8:36be for our partners? Yes, absolutely. I
8:40don't mean like you have to have
8:41facelifts or, you know, anything like
8:43that, but you you should keep yourself
8:46as attractive as you can, each of you.
8:48And I think, you know,
8:50And that's not just a physical thing, I
8:51have to say. It's it can be an
8:52intellectual thing.
8:53exactly. It's an intellectual thing as
8:55well because desire goes and especially,
8:58you know, the, you know, grumpy old man,
8:59grumpy old woman thing. When people age,
9:02I think that they become very set in
9:04their ways and, you know, become quite,
9:06you know, you don't want to be the
9:07bitter and twisted person. You could
9:08look like, you know, a Greek god and if
9:11you're bitter and twisted, your
9:12partner's still not going to want to
9:13sleep with you. So, yes, I do think we
9:15owe it to each other to say, you know,
9:17to look as good as you can and to be as
9:19positive as you can. There is nothing
9:21less sexy than being with somebody who's
9:24miserable all the time, who's a negative
9:27person.
9:28It's so interesting that I some of the
9:29most attractive things I find in my
9:31partner are when I look over and see her
9:37doing her work and her things.
9:38Yes.
9:39So, actually, it's funny, I she she
9:40doesn't actually know this, but but last
9:43night I came home from work very, very
9:44late cuz I was I was out did some talks
9:46at the
9:47and I came home and I got in through the
9:48door and I my partner was sat at the
9:50kitchen table. It was about 11:00 p.m.
9:52at night designing her new studio on her
9:55laptop with her headphones on.
9:57And I just found that really I took a
9:58photo.
10:00And it's on my phone. And I took a photo
10:01cuz I'm like I'm proud of her in one
10:02sense, but it was really lovely that
10:04when I walked through the door,
10:06it wasn't about me. Mhm. She was busy
10:09doing her own stuff. Doing her own
10:10stuff.
10:10Yeah. And I kind of like walked past and
10:12I could almost see how some people might
10:13find it find that threatening. I like,
10:15"Well, hey, babe." Give her a kiss like
10:16on then she kind of like kisses me back,
10:18but then goes back to the laptop. I'm
10:19like,
10:20"This is nice." And I went I went over
10:22and I sat on the sofa on my own and just
10:23watched Manchester United, but there was
10:24something really attractive about it.
10:25Yeah. Of course there is. I mean,
10:27watching somebody at work doing what
10:29they love is is the moment when yeah,
10:31that you're like, "Wow, this person's
10:33amazing." I mean, I would hate to be a
10:35person who, you know, the partner's at
10:37home waiting for you. Yeah. And where
10:40are you? And it's all about So, what
10:41have you done? Nothing much. How was
10:42your day? Yeah.
10:43That's not It's not healthy for a
10:45relationship. That puts it too much on
10:47one person. If you want to have great
10:49sex, you need to have an interesting
10:50life.
10:51You need to be doing interesting things.
10:53You know, you're not going to be having
10:54great sex if you're boring and you do
10:56the same thing every single day because
10:58you just end up doing the same boring
10:59sex. You need stimulation all the time.
11:02And that routineness is the the enemy of
11:06Yeah. The killer for women. The killer
11:08for women. Because women are the ones
11:11that find monogamy boring, not men. If
11:13you say to men, "Right, you could have
11:16the same sex, pretty much do the same
11:18thing every single time, three times a
11:21week for the rest of your life with this
11:23person." Most men would go, "All right."
11:25Sounds all right to me.
11:27If you said that to a woman, she would
11:28go, "You have kidding me." But this is
11:31what's happening. Women get bored way
11:33quicker than men. And they do so because
11:36our orgasm is far more complicated than
11:39yours. I mean, intercourse is usually
11:41the main event for most couples' sex.
11:43Intercourse is like the the big bit that
11:46everyone aims for, right? And that's
11:47great for men because intercourse very
11:49successfully stimulates the penis. You
11:52know, the penis wants to rub it in and
11:53out of something. The vagina does a
11:54great job. Fabulous.
11:56For women, the clitoris is outside the
11:58vagina, but some of it is inside and you
12:01know, because the clitoris isn't that
12:02little tip, by the way. It looks like a
12:04wishbone. Imagine a wishbone and the tip
12:07of the clitoris is at the top and then
12:09it goes down the sides of the legs,
12:10right? That's the clitoris. Amazing. 10
12:1310 cm long. So, because the clitoris is
12:15in on the outside of the vagina,
12:17intercourse doesn't cut it for most
12:19women. Only 80 No, 20% of women can
12:22climax through penetrative sex. 20%.
12:25Right? That means 80% of women are not
12:27having their orgasms through
12:29intercourse. So, if you're going to
12:31serve up the same routine sex and most
12:34couples have sex the same way over and
12:36over again every time they have sex, and
12:38that's your lot as a female, you're
12:40having sex which doesn't give you an
12:42orgasm. You're having sex which doesn't
12:44isn't exciting, isn't erotic, isn't it
12:47you know, in any way really interesting,
12:50women get bored. Men don't get bored
12:51because they get the orgasm as a reward.
12:53Women get bored because the sex is just
12:56not the right sex for them. So, women's
12:58desire for sex goes down so much faster
13:01than men's does. So, you need to give
13:03women interesting erotic sex and then
13:06they'll be interested, but otherwise,
13:08they're not going to be interested.
13:10There are 80% of women listening now
13:12that can relate. Yes.
13:15So,
13:17and it's funny cuz I was speaking to a
13:18friend of mine. I told them that I was
13:20going to have this conversation with
13:20you. And I said, "What would you like me
13:22to to say?" And they this was the
13:24question they had and it's linked to
13:25what you just said. They said, "I'm in a
13:26relationship where my partner is having
13:29um the same sex over and over again.
13:31He's coming very quickly during sex. And
13:34I don't know how to broach the
13:35conversation with him about like this
13:37isn't working for me
13:38um without like embarrassing him or
13:40whatever it might be. What advice would
13:41you give to that person?
13:43Gosh, talking about sex is
13:45is just the thing.
13:47I mean, do you talk about sex with your
13:49girlfriend?
13:50How long have you been together? Four
13:51years now. Oh, well done. We're just
13:52very open with things.
13:53Yeah. Well done. That's really good.
13:55Because most people talk a lot about sex
13:57in the beginning when it's all going
13:58well. Like, aren't we amazing? That
14:00wasn't that great. All that sort of
14:01stuff. The minute there's problems, they
14:02tail off.
14:03And every sex problem can be solved if
14:06you talk about it. If you don't talk
14:08about sex, the tiniest sex problem can
14:10ruin your whole sex life. And the reason
14:13people don't talk about sex is that
14:15they're worried exactly where she just
14:16said that they're going to hurt their
14:18partner, that they're going to upset
14:19them. Well, you just be really tactful
14:21about it. And I always talk about the
14:24the compliment sandwich. So, say you
14:26want to say So, she wants him to be
14:28what? Give her more foreplay? Something
14:30like that? Yeah, just he's he's he's
14:33reaching orgasm too quickly and then
14:35she's obviously not enjoying it because
14:37uh he's over and she's still not, you
14:39know, had her her orgasm. No. Well, the
14:43mantra for that is she comes first.
14:45Always. The way to solve the whole
14:46orgasm thing in several ways. One of One
14:48of the ways is to have,
14:50you know, give her her orgasm through
14:52oral sex, fingers, uh vibrator and then
14:55you go on to intercourse, which is when
14:56he gets his orgasm. So, that's a very I
14:59mean, it's what a lot of um couples do.
15:01A lot of straight couples do. You'll
15:02notice actually when I talk about sex, I
15:04talk about straight couples. The reason
15:05why is that gay couples have a lot
15:08better time of it because they've got
15:10the same issues going on. So, it sort of
15:12helps if you go in lots of ways. Um but
15:15I would say, don't worry so much about
15:18like
15:18if you say to if she said to her
15:20partner,
15:21"Look, I really love our sex. I love our
15:24sex. I particularly like it when you do
15:25X, but you know when you used to do Y,
15:28give me more foreplay, give me oral sex.
15:30I really really love that. Can we do
15:32more of that?" So, you're not saying,
15:34"Actually, you you're not not lasting
15:36long enough." And not lasting long
15:37enough is not going to be an issue with
15:39most women because they don't have their
15:40orgasms through intercourse anyway. So,
15:42I think that men need to calm down about
15:44that. They feel like they have to go on
15:46forever and ever and ever and it's like,
15:47"Well, she's not going to orgasm that
15:49way anyway." She's going to feel like
15:50she has to. And then you get the faking
15:52it and all that sort of stuff comes into
15:54it. But talking about sex is such a huge
15:56issue for people. And the funny thing
15:59about talking about sex is that once
16:02you've done it once, it's it's the first
16:05conversation, especially, you know, I
16:06deal with couples who haven't talked
16:08about sex for 30 years. And that first
16:10conversation is excruciating. You know,
16:13you're so like, "Oh my god, this is
16:14awful. I just want the you know, earth
16:16to move like open and get rid of me."
16:19But once you move past that that initial
16:21awkwardness, which seriously lasts like
16:233 minutes,
16:25then all of a sudden it this relief. The
16:27amount of couples you say, "Oh my god,
16:28like I can say actually I don't really
16:30like it when you do that. Can you do
16:32this?" And like, you know, "Does it
16:33worry you that, you know, my erection
16:35isn't as hard as it was when I was
16:36young?" And and you get reassurance and
16:38then they're falling over themselves.
16:40You will never ever ever regret trying
16:42to talk about sex with your partner. It
16:43is the number one thing you can do for
16:45your relationship. So, she should think
16:47about what she wants.
16:49Be very specific. Men particularly like
16:53they respond best to very specific
16:56instructions. So, instead of saying,
16:58"Look, this sex isn't working for me
16:59because, you know, you you're climaxing
17:01too fast and then all of a sudden it's
17:03over and I'm just left high and dry."
17:06If you say, "This is my idea of the
17:08perfect sex session. Can you just like
17:10let's just
17:11take turns, you know, we each have we
17:13each design our own perfect sex session.
17:15You know, I could you start with
17:17kissing, you could move on to kissing my
17:19neck. I really like it if you play with
17:21my breasts and then I love oral sex, but
17:23could you do it for a bit longer? Very
17:25specific.
17:27And people are like, "Well, that's like
17:28telling you, you know, saying you like
17:29can you say you love me?" And then they
17:31say, "I love you back." But no. Giving
17:33instructions in sex is really Most
17:35people are really grateful for it. And
17:37it might feel a bit awkward the session
17:39after that where he's thinking, "Oh my
17:41god, I'm just doing exactly what she
17:42says. Isn't this embarrassing?" And then
17:44all of a sudden you forget about it. And
17:46then the next session and the next
17:47session is like flowing and great. Okay,
17:50so couple of counterpoints here just
17:51from personal experience. One of the
17:53things I've always been a bit conscious
17:55of. Or no, one of the things that I
17:57think has irked me a little bit is
17:59and this goes back to what you said
18:00about lust, this kind of spontaneity and
18:03then the uh the riskiness of it is I
18:05don't want rules. You know? Like I don't
18:08want Rules. I don't want to be I don't
18:11want to be in instructed during sex or
18:14or or or even worse,
18:17I don't like that. Do it like this. Oh,
18:18no, not
18:19It kind of kills the like I think
18:21sometimes you can become a little bit
18:23like
18:24boy being told off by his mom. You know
18:26what I mean?
18:27Yeah. I I that can then that can have an
18:29impact on one's erect erection erection
18:32and then their like mindset. I think
18:34sometimes for guys, so much of sex is
18:37flowing, feeling like you can flow. Mhm.
18:41Sometime if you get like if you got
18:43critical feedback during sex, that's
18:45like a
18:46pressure stress which then the erection
18:48might not, you know, hold out.
18:50Well, first of all, it's natural for an
18:52erection to come and go during any sex
18:54session. So, that's not really
18:56important. But maybe yeah, criticism
18:58isn't great. Like, don't do it like
18:59that. Move over here or or in a very
19:01barking, you know, sergeant major, you
19:03know, "Can you move to the left?" That's
19:04not so great. But if you if you do it I
19:08mean, often men do it's do don't hit the
19:11spot and they are doing it wrong. And
19:13so,
19:14do you want women to just lie back and
19:16go, "Fuck, it's not even remotely close
19:18to where it should be,
19:19but I'm going to pretend." Yeah. Because
19:21that's what And this is why women don't
19:23give men instruction in bed is because
19:25they know that a lot of men don't like
19:27it. A lot of men say, you know, it is
19:29you know, it does disrupt the
19:30proceedings. But then it's very quickly
19:32back on track if you do it, you know, if
19:34you go and do what exactly she wants.
19:37Personally, I think sexual instruction,
19:40you can say or just over to the left a
19:42bit or that feels great there.
19:44And you know, whenever you can give
19:45positive feedback rather than negative
19:47is great. So, giving I'm sure you
19:49wouldn't mind if she says, "No, that's
19:50perfect. Stay there. Stay there. Do it
19:52for longer." Yeah, exactly.
19:53is the positive framing.
19:54Yeah. Yeah, that's the key thing. The
19:56key thing is absolutely that. And then
19:58if if maybe you've still haven't aren't
20:00haven't hit the spot, then afterwards
20:03you say, "Actually, um you know, that
20:05didn't quite work. Can I just tell you
20:07where or what works for me?" And then
20:08demonstrate on your hand or something.
20:10That's always a really good way to do
20:11it. But yeah, the key is in the
20:12positive. No one's going to respond to
20:14sex where somebody's going, "Oh, that's
20:16not right. Why are you doing that for?
20:18That's terrible." You know, "Don't go
20:19there. Eh, that doesn't feel anything."
20:21You know, "No, that's terrible. That's
20:22awful."
20:23And those instructional sessions should
20:25happen when? Before sex, during sex,
20:27after sex? Well, depends on the couple a
20:30little bit. I mean, you can use body
20:31language during sex. I don't know about
20:33before sex. I think maybe sometimes
20:36after sex, when you're getting on really
20:38well and, you know, having a few drinks
20:41maybe, if you're a drinker, and relaxed
20:43and just talking generally, that's sort
20:45of the time to say, "By the way, you
20:46know, that" I always think that's a good
20:47time if you want to try something new.
20:50Or to say, "Oh, by the way, my friend
20:51was talking about doing X, you know,
20:53what do you think about that?" I always
20:54think things like conversations about
20:56sex that are positive and exciting and,
20:58you know, talking about trying new
20:59things should happen outside the
21:01bedroom, really.
21:03Um but otherwise, yeah, you do have to
21:06have those instructional sessions, I'm
21:07afraid. What if you want to do something
21:09and your partner doesn't want to do it?
21:11Generally, a request for something new,
21:14a request for anything is just a request
21:16for variety. So say your partner says,
21:18"I want to try having sex outside." And
21:21you really don't want to have sex
21:22outside. The correct answer to that is,
21:24"Look, that's really not my thing, but
21:27you know, why don't we try X?" Most
21:30people, if they want to try something
21:32new, if you give them, you know, "I'm
21:33not open to that, but I am open to
21:35something else," then they'll be fine
21:37about it. But I mean, where you get into
21:39problems with somebody wanting to try
21:41something at the other partner not
21:42wanting to try is if it's something a
21:45bit fetish. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and
21:47that's when you get Did you ever watch
21:49um Billions? You know, where they she
21:50she had the fetish of, you know, being
21:52whipped and wanting to be the
21:53submissive. And and he just let her go
21:56off and be satisfied by um a sex worker.
21:59That's one option, by the way, if your
22:00partner has a fetish, is to just go,
22:02"Okay, I accept that you've got this
22:04fetish and it's not for me. So if you if
22:06it's really so much part of your makeup
22:08that you can't live without it, then go
22:10off with a sex worker and satisfy it."
22:11That's the extreme version. But most of
22:13the time I think or you can meet
22:15halfway. Like say um
22:17say your partner Say you want to have a
22:19threesome with two women.
22:21Well, then the meeting halfway might be
22:23that you have phone sex with a sex
22:25worker. Maybe you role-play it. Maybe
22:28you go to a lap dancing club and she
22:30gets a lap dance by someone. There is
22:32There's always some kind of compromise
22:34in there where you can capture a sense
22:35of what the other person wants.
22:38Okay, so let's go back up to this this
22:39this initial question. My friends,
22:42they're in their 30s,
22:43sexless sexless relationships. They are
22:46increasingly frustrated about it, it
22:48seems. Um
22:50It's funny, I've got like Yeah, I've got
22:52this collection of my best friends who
22:53are we're very
22:54talkative and communicative around our
22:56sex lives and stuff. And I just noticed
22:58that in various ways they're in
23:00situations where they're not they don't
23:01feel like they're getting enough sex
23:02from their partner and they see it as a
23:04critical problem, which would which
23:06might result in them, for example, being
23:08um
23:09cheating or
23:11um ending the relationship.
23:14Even in my own um sort of sexual
23:16experience, what got me really engaged
23:19with this subject matter was I was in a
23:20relationship where the part my partner
23:22turned around to me one day after 6
23:24months and said like, "I don't like
23:25having sex."
23:26Oh. Did she say you or did she say she
23:27or
23:28with me
23:28with me. Oh. Great. And as he as yeah,
23:31as a young man, I I I think with, you
23:33know, with an ego, I thought, "Well,
23:34what does that mean? That's super
23:35emasculating. Does that mean that
23:37I'm not hitting it right or like do I
23:40maybe it's her problem, you know,
23:41whatever." And so I went on that journey
23:43What did she mean? So it's interesting
23:44because we separated. Yeah. My reaction
23:47was very like
23:48And also,
23:50I turned to her and said like, "Why?"
23:51And she said the next sentence was, "I'm
23:53not comfortable talking about that with
23:54you."
23:55Oh. Yeah, so for me that was like the
23:57door had closed.
23:57Of course it did, cuz where do you go
23:58with that?
23:59Yeah, so exactly. So I broke up with
24:00her. Yeah. And um
24:02year passes, we both go to different
24:04places, we both going to you know,
24:05figure ourselves out a little bit. And
24:07on her journey, she really got to
24:08understand that the at the heart of her
24:10relationship with sex was this fear that
24:13had derived from previous relationships
24:15where the partner was very forceful, you
24:17know, um
24:18a parent cheating, all of those things
24:19that we kind of discussed earlier. So it
24:21wasn't that she
24:23necessarily didn't like having sex.
24:24There was a lot of psychological work to
24:26be done
24:27Right. removing that fear of like
24:29abandonment. And really, if I made her
24:32feel safe,
24:33really really safe, then the sexual
24:36appetite would return. That's what
24:38happened. Mm. Oh. So a year later we get
24:40back together. We end up having the best
24:42sex of our lives
24:43on an ongoing basis. Um
24:46and it was because she was able to
24:50understand I was Okay, so first she was
24:52able to understand what was really going
24:54on. I was able to like be patient enough
24:56to like listen and, you know,
24:58go for weeks and weeks and months with
25:00not having sexual intimacy and just be
25:02there,
25:03which allowed her to feel safe. And then
25:04beyond that we were able to kind of like
25:06rebuild it. Thanks for sharing that. And
25:08we're still together today. Oh my god,
25:10so this is your girlfriend?
25:11Yeah. I'll have to ask her for
25:13permission to say this. I'll show her
25:14the clip and make sure she's comfortable
25:15with it. But um
25:16but that's my kind of girlfriend.
25:18story. So we went from a point of I
25:20don't like having sex, I don't like
25:21having sex, a really really bad
25:22situation
25:24to
25:25the best situation I think one can
25:26imagine in that department. Obviously,
25:28communication was at the heart of it. Of
25:30course. Of course.
25:30Always, yeah. And giving her space to,
25:32you know, and and I give the credit to
25:34her cuz she figured that out. But that's
25:35what got me really into the subject
25:36matter cuz I've now got loads of friends
25:38that are in that situation. Mm. What
25:40What I would say to your friends is
25:43if your partner doesn't want to have sex
25:45with you,
25:46I wonder whether how good the sex is
25:48because
25:49a lot of women say no. I'm presuming
25:50these straight couples. A lot of women
25:53say no to sex because the sex that's on
25:54offer is not that interesting to them.
25:57So for this, we need to talk about sex
25:59drives, spontaneous desire versus
26:01responsive desire. Have you heard of
26:03that? Yes. Yeah. From reading your book.
26:07So spontaneous desire is 2/3 of men have
26:09spontaneous desire. And it's the desire
26:11that everybody has at the beginning. And
26:13by the way, if you want to know
26:14somebody's resting libido, you can't
26:16you've got to wait about a year. You
26:18have to wait about a year to find out
26:19what their real libido is because it's
26:21always so artificially inflated at the
26:22start, right? But so spontaneous desire,
26:252/3 of men have this. It's It's the, you
26:27know, want to see want to see, you know,
26:30seek sex. Want sex, seek sex. They can
26:32go from People with spontaneous desire
26:34could be like scrolling through
26:35Instagram, somebody sexy walks past and
26:37it's like, "Wow, I'm instantly aroused
26:40for sex." They go from zero to 100 very
26:42quickly. They seek out their mate, want
26:45sex,
26:46and they're off, right?
26:48Responsive desire means that you have no
26:50desire for sex or very little desire for
26:52sex until somebody is actually doing
26:55something to you sexually.
26:57So this is somebody who, you know, maybe
27:00is with their partner. Their partner
27:02wants to have sex. They're not even
27:03slightly interested, but goes, "Okay,
27:05look, I'll give it a go." Then once
27:07start things start happening, if their
27:08partner is very good at stimulating them
27:11and they enjoy the stimulation, all of a
27:12sudden they're like, "Yeah, actually,
27:14yeah, I'm enjoying this." That's the
27:16warming up.
27:17That's the warming up, right? Now, 30%
27:19of women have responsive desire. The
27:22rest of them are a mix between
27:23spontaneous and responsive.
27:25Most men So you've got this situation
27:27where most men have spontaneous desire,
27:29most women are responsive. Most men are
27:32very happy to go straight to genital
27:34sex. They don't need warming up the way
27:36their anatomy works. For women, foreplay
27:39isn't a a luxury, it's a necessity
27:41because in order for sex to be
27:43comfortable, you need the vagina to
27:45tent. So it literally puffs up so that
27:47it can, you know,
27:49take a a penis comfortably. So if you
27:52don't wait for that to happen and you go
27:54male-style sex, go straight for
27:56penetration, she's not even
27:59off the starting blocks and suddenly
28:00you're penetrating, sex isn't great, and
28:02then it's all over. So for men, you
28:04could have like not even thinking about
28:06sex to having finished within 10
28:08minutes.
28:09For women, they need time to warm up
28:12because their sex drive is responsive.
28:14So they've almost like blink and it's
28:16over and they haven't even got to 5%
28:19desire.
28:20And this is the problem with
28:23couples. And that's that's with I'm
28:24talking about a very basic couple who
28:26probably don't talk about sex and who
28:27aren't terribly sexually savvy. So I
28:29think cuz I think people have an
28:31understanding vague understanding that
28:32women need more foreplay. I mean, that's
28:33been drummed into men, hasn't it?
28:35But I think that what women don't
28:37understand is that women think, you
28:39know, at the beginning it was great, it
28:40was all spontaneous, I desire was there.
28:43You know, when you get into a long-term
28:45relationship, desire doesn't tap you on
28:47the shoulder anymore. You have to create
28:48it.
28:49And women I think think because they
28:52that spontaneous desire is gone,
28:54and they don't feel like sex, it just
28:56doesn't come out of the blue unless they
28:58start having sex,
29:00they think, "Oh, that just must mean I
29:01don't want sex anymore. Well,
29:03something's wrong with me. I don't want
29:04sex anymore." You do want sex. It's just
29:07that you've got to be
29:09have sexy things happening to you before
29:11you feel the desire for sex.
29:13And if people understood that, if women
29:15understood it better and stopped saying,
29:17"Oh, well, it's obviously means my sex
29:18drive's gone." No, it hasn't. It's
29:20there. You've just got to have great
29:22stimulation and great sex to get it
29:24back.
29:25And the other thing about women is that
29:27women we have this thing about that
29:29women want tame and they want romance
29:31and stuff. That's not true. So much
29:33research now shows that women like
29:36erotic wild sex. I mean, they've done
29:38these experiments with women where
29:40they'll show them erotic videos and
29:42they'll wire up the genitals to measure
29:44genital response. So when you're aroused
29:46as a woman, blood flows to the genitals
29:48same as men, and you lubricate. So,
29:51they're watching all these videos,
29:53various sexy videos, and they have to
29:54say, you know, "Will anything else
29:56dis-arouse you?" No, because society
29:58says no, we're not supposed to be. And
30:01the genitals are like, "Are you kidding?
30:02What are you thinking? This is
30:03fantastic. I'm absolutely say yes to
30:06this. Say yes to this." So, the the you
30:08know, the there's such a big difference
30:10between what we're taught and what we
30:12would like. So, if your girlfriend is
30:15saying no to sex and you're in a
30:16long-term relationship, it's because
30:18you're not giving her interesting enough
30:19sex. Give her exciting, erotic sex. Give
30:22her something like, "Actually, this is
30:23what we're going to do." I mean, look at
30:2550 Shades of Grey. That got middle-aged
30:27women wanting sex with women who hadn't
30:29wanted sex for 20 years. I remember
30:31being on a holiday with my husband, and
30:34we started talking to this couple, and
30:35it was around the time that 50 Shades
30:36came out. And she knew what I did, and
30:39she said um she said, "God, I hadn't
30:41really had great sex with my partner,
30:43wasn't interested in sex, you know, for
30:45like 10 years. She said, "I read the
30:47book. I'm sitting there 2:00 in the
30:49morning. I'm looking down at my partner.
30:50I'm thinking,
30:51I really just want to wake him up and
30:53have sex with him."
30:54And she said, "And I've never And And
30:56then she said, 'And I read the books,
30:58and suddenly I was back into this erotic
31:00sex with my husband that I'd just
31:03forgotten I'd forgotten about.' Like,
31:05you think of sex as like, 'Oh God, here
31:06we go, kissing, bit fumbling, you know.'
31:08And then the routine sex. But give
31:10people something interesting. Like, all
31:12your friends, give her really
31:13interesting scenarios. Take her
31:15somewhere sexy. Push her out of her
31:17comfort zones. Don't give her romance.
31:19Don't give her, you know, give her sexy
31:21sex. And then they'll be interested.
31:24Mhm.
31:27I'm I'm thinking of my friends like
31:28posing that and how uncomfortable they'd
31:30feel. Really?
31:31Like, "Babe, I want to drive to the
31:32countryside and da da da da da." Because
31:35you know, when you've been with someone
31:35and you've become that kind of sibling
31:37thing that you described earlier,
31:39they might almost look at you with a bit
31:41of horror? Horror, yeah. Yeah, you
31:44wouldn't go straight from not talking
31:45about sex to like, "And we're going to
31:47go to a lap dancing club tonight." And
31:49No, you have to you have to have the
31:51conversation. You have to bite the
31:52bullet and have the conversation because
31:54the thing about sex is relationships, if
31:56you haven't had sex for a year with your
31:58partner, it is very unlikely you're
32:00going to have sex again with your
32:02partner, unless you confront it head-on.
32:05If you just think, "Yeah, this will
32:07pass, this will pass." It will never
32:08pass. You're not going to suddenly go,
32:10"Oh my god, look at that. We haven't had
32:11sex for 5 years. Let's go to bed now."
32:14No, it's got to the awkward, awkward,
32:16awkward stage. So, I mean, 30% of
32:19couples who've been together for 2 years
32:22or more don't have sex. 2 years, not 10
32:26years, 2 years. 30%. It is very easy to
32:30get out of the habit of sex, and once
32:32you're out of the habit of sex, the less
32:34often you do it. And then couples get
32:35into this thing where it's like, "God,
32:37we haven't had sex for ages, but you
32:38know what? Next weekend we'll have this
32:40marathon sex session, and that'll make
32:41up for it all." And then the marathon
32:43sex session is like, "God, how am I
32:45going to find time for that?" Or, you
32:46know, "That's a bit daunting." And then,
32:48of course, you'd have to have sex for
32:49like 6 weeks to make up for the session.
32:51So, it just becomes more and more
32:54insurmountable. So, I always say to
32:56people, just have little bite-size bits
32:58of sex.
32:59You know, don't have Sex doesn't have to
33:00have a beginning, a middle, and an end.
33:02Like, have a big snogging session. Have
33:04a thing where he gives you oral, you
33:06don't do any, you know, give nothing
33:07back. Or you give him oral. Or, you
33:09know, you just do something sensual
33:12together. You have a bath together.
33:14That's counts as sex. You know, people
33:16think sex has to have intercourse in
33:18there. It doesn't. It's the least
33:19favorite bit for women. Take the
33:21intercourse out.
33:22Start doing little bite-size stuff to
33:24reconnect sexually.
33:25It's like a frog in a frying pan, that
33:27old analogy of how slowly that, you
33:29know, the frog doesn't realize it's
33:30being heated in a frying pan until the
33:32water is boiling and it's dead. Like, it
33:33happens very, very gradually in
33:34relationships.
33:36And then you get to a point where you
33:37go, "How the hell did we get here?"
33:38Yeah.
33:39And at that point,
33:40you have to have the talk. The talk.
33:42This is interesting cuz one of my my
33:43friends was I was talking to him about
33:44it, and I was saying like, "You've let
33:46it gradually stray so far, and you're
33:49currently letting it You're not
33:50addressing it. You need to stage a
33:51crisis." Mhm. It's kind of the way I
33:53framed it to him, which was like, "You
33:54need to say
33:56stop. Yeah. Like, this relationship has
33:57to stop. We have to have a conversation
33:58now because I'm at a point now where
34:01I'm either going to leave this
34:02relationship or I'm going to end up
34:03cheating or something. So, we need to
34:05fix this together. And it needs to feel
34:07important.
34:08Yeah. Or else it'll be allowed to
34:09simmer. That's exactly right. And of
34:11course, what lots of people do in that
34:12scenario is they just turn to porn.
34:14Yeah. And they just satisfy themselves
34:16with porn, but that's not ideal,
34:17obviously. Why?
34:18But you Well, because it's it's pretty
34:21soulless sex, isn't it? Just watching
34:23porn and masturbating. I do you know,
34:24there's It's really funny about porn,
34:26actually, because
34:27I used to have a great relationship with
34:30porn. I used to say to people all the
34:31time like, "Porn is your friend. Watch
34:32it with your partner. It's great for,
34:34you know, if you've got a high sex drive
34:36and your partner doesn't, it it, you
34:37know, you can satisfy yourself. It it
34:39keeps your imagination, you know,
34:42piqued. You, you know, can satisfy that
34:44sense of newness by watching porn." And
34:47now porn's moved into a really ugly
34:50stage with, you know, there's such a
34:53a concentration on aggressive acts like
34:56spitting, choking. Choking is terrible.
34:59Um slapping across the face. It's become
35:01very much like that, and young men are
35:03growing up to think that this is what a
35:05normal sex session is like. This is
35:07normal, real-life sex. It is not. Porn
35:09is nothing like real-life sex. And then
35:11women look at it and go, "Gosh, right,
35:13okay, that's obviously what's expected
35:15of me. This is what I have to do." And
35:16it's it's moving into a very nasty
35:18direction. They say unmet expectations
35:21equal unhappiness. So, by setting
35:22expectations up here as like, Mhm.
35:25"We're going to do this for an hour, and
35:26I'm going to tie you up and spit on you
35:27and choke you, and you're going to make
35:28this sound, and you're going to scream,
35:30and you're going to tell me I'm this,
35:30and you're going to say that I'm your
35:32father whatever." Yeah, yeah. Whatever
35:33the thing might be. Then for those unmet
35:35expectations equals unhappiness in the
35:37bedroom. You go, "Well, you know,
35:39I'm going to have to go looking for
35:40something else."
35:40Exactly. And that's what young men do
35:42cuz they think that's what sex is going
35:43to be about. It's not. So, then they
35:45keep looking for the girls who will give
35:46them that. And then girls very quickly
35:48figure out, "Okay, if I want to be
35:49liked, I have to do that." I've just
35:51done a done a big thing on choking, and
35:54and I interviewed all these young girls,
35:56and it was it was horrifying. It was
35:58that they'd been I mean, between 58% of
36:01college students between the age of, you
36:03know, like
36:04had all been choked. I think
36:0630% of them had been asked. And I'm not
36:09talking about, you know, symbolic
36:10choking of just putting a hand on the
36:11throat, which even that freaks me out.
36:14But I'm talking about, you know, cutting
36:15off wind supply. There was one girl who
36:18told me she was 21.
36:20She'd gone out with this guy who seemed
36:22really nice. He started choking her. She
36:24said no. She passed out. She woke up
36:28next to this guy who was asleep.
36:31He then said to And then she got herself
36:33out of there and was like, "Oh my god."
36:35You know, terrified. He texted her the
36:37next day and said, "Oh my god, babe, the
36:39sex was awesome. Let's meet up again."
36:41And she was she was just like, "How
36:42could you possibly think that that was
36:43good?"
36:44And that worries me a lot. I think that
36:47that I mean, I sex I think is moving in
36:49a great way in lots of ways,
36:50particularly for young women, except for
36:52things like that. I think that is
36:54terrible. So, you know, you don't want
36:55to be satisfying yourself with porn. But
36:58you have to have the conversation if sex
37:00is now out of your marriage. You cannot
37:02just let it go and be the elephant in
37:03the room because exactly what you said
37:05is going to happen. You're going to
37:05leave or you're going to cheat.
37:08So, you sit down with your partner and
37:09you say,
37:11"Listen, we really need to have a
37:12discussion about this. I love you
37:14desperately.
37:15Um but I miss our sex. I really We used
37:18to have lovely sex. I love having sex
37:20with you. You're really desirable. It's
37:22It's, you know, and I Can we talk about
37:24why this isn't happening anymore?
37:26Are you having the sort of, you know, is
37:28it that the sex that we're having isn't
37:30doing it for you? What can I do to make
37:33you, you know, want to have sex more
37:35often with me because I would really
37:36love to have sex with you more often.
37:38Can we have a discussion about this?"
37:40Okay, I've got friends that have tried
37:41that. And what happened? Um the partner
37:44doesn't necessarily know. It's a similar
37:45situation to what I the one in the
37:47situation I described that I was in
37:48where my partner turned around and said
37:50something because they might not have
37:52the information themselves. They go,
37:53"Well, I just don't like having it." And
37:55they might not know that the, you know,
37:56the responsive sex language that you
37:59talked about, and they might not know
38:00what's going on with Oh, I see. The
38:02partner might not know why she doesn't
38:03want to have sex.
38:04Why she or he doesn't like having sex.
38:06Um And then you kind of hit a wall,
38:07don't you? Well, that's when you educate
38:09yourself. That's when you give Read a
38:10few of my books. Yeah, yeah.
38:12you a bit of education. But I mean,
38:15okay, so the partner who wants sex is
38:17generally more driven. So, maybe they
38:18could sexually actually educate
38:20themselves and say, "You know, I've been
38:21reading up about this. Perhaps it might
38:23be because of this. Can we try having
38:25sex this way?"
38:26But it's all about breaching the topic,
38:29and then, I mean, depending on the
38:31reaction, I mean, I know I've, you know,
38:33encouraged some people to have this
38:34talk, and then they've got an answer
38:36which is just startling. Well, they'll
38:37say, "I don't want to have sex anymore.
38:39I'm not interested in solving this. So,
38:42that's it. So, you just have to put up
38:43with it."
38:44That's what I That's basically Well,
38:47what I got. If somebody says that to
38:48you, and they really and you've tried on
38:51several occasions, and you I I think
38:53that is grounds for walking out myself.
38:55And I did. Yeah.
38:57Yeah. And a miracle seems to have Yes,
39:00because then people do themselves a
39:01favor. And sometimes maybe you walk out,
39:03and then the person thinks, "Well, gosh,
39:05actually, that's not very fair." Because
39:07monogamy is all about, you know, I
39:08pledge to only have sex with one person.
39:11Well, if that person withdraws sex, then
39:13where are you left? Apart from having
39:16solo sex, and, you know, or you have an
39:19agreement, "Okay, well, if you won't
39:20have sex with me, then what are my
39:22options? My options are to satisfy
39:24myself, to cheat,
39:26to you happy for me to seek the sex
39:28elsewhere? And lots of lots of times
39:30people will say, "Yeah, actually, I am.
39:32I don't want to know about it.
39:33I don't want it to be in our friendship
39:35group. And we're going to have to have
39:36rules about this, but, you know, some
39:38women are more than happy with for that
39:40to happen." Or some men are more than
39:41happy for that to happen. It's not just
39:42a female thing here. Men go off sex as
39:44well. On this point of porn as well,
39:47there was I read something recently
39:48about the shame that it's causing in in
39:51people. Like I I I think the study that
39:53I read and I'm
39:54Yeah, I think I read that, too. About
39:5640% of men that use um that masturbate
39:58to porn report to feeling a sense of
40:00shame. And then it when we think about
40:02the sort of macro, where we are in sex
40:04as a society right now, there is a
40:06decline of sex, isn't there, going on?
40:08Which is quite concerning.
40:10Yeah, there is a there's a sex
40:12recession. And that's very much because
40:16I mean, basically, there wasn't a sex
40:17recession before social media,
40:19streaming, phones. It's all to do with
40:22that. We have too much to do. We
40:24basically just go off sex because we
40:26have other things to entertain us. You
40:27know, pre all that, 10:34 on a Saturday
40:30night, most couples were having sex.
40:31There was nothing else to do. Mhm. That
40:33was it. We just did two, you know,
40:35there's that going on. So, we're too
40:36busy. We've got too many other things on
40:38our plate. That's the main problem with
40:40long-term couples. Then you have, like,
40:42I think less face-to-face communication,
40:45which makes which makes people quite
40:46nervous. If you haven't had sex before
40:49and you're dealing mainly with, you
40:51know, FaceTime calls, you know, video
40:53calls, which is what you lots of young
40:55people are, when you're face-to-face,
40:57they get very nervous. They don't know
40:59anything about body language. They don't
41:01know how to connect, and sex becomes
41:04scary. In Japan, there's something like
41:0730% No, higher. I think more like 45% of
41:11people get to the age of in their 30s
41:12and they're virgins. They've never even
41:14had a sexual encounter.
41:16And they just And if you don't give your
41:17body sex, your body doesn't want sex.
41:20So, they could quite happily go through
41:23life completely sexless. That's what's
41:25going to end up happening with sex. We
41:27are becoming less and less and less.
41:28And, you know, the more we go into
41:30virtual worlds
41:31the more I mean, the amount of people
41:33who rely on porn for sex, who can't even
41:34be bothered going out and finding a
41:36partner cuz it's all too difficult.
41:38I mean, we're it's becoming less and
41:40less about the intimacy and more and
41:41more about just the getting off part.
41:44We're now in an AI world as well.
41:45Yes, terrifying. Which is very
41:47interesting. Yes. Because you're now you
41:49know, we've heard about sex dolls and
41:51stuff like that over the years. But a
41:53sex doll that can speak to you with such
41:55depth and reason and apparent emotional
41:59uh nuance and understanding is really,
42:02really scary. Mhm. You can think I was
42:04thinking about I'm thinking about this.
42:06Thinking about all the different ways
42:07that AI is going to disrupt us as like a
42:09the social fabric of society. And one of
42:10the really clear ways that was
42:12you can now have a sex doll in your
42:14house that speaks to you, that comforts
42:16you, that understands your problems,
42:18understands what you're going through,
42:19and can give you unbelievable advice,
42:21will never shout at you, will never
42:23criticize you, and will please you in a
42:25in a personalized way. It will learn how
42:28to please you.
42:30Sounds great, doesn't it? Fantastic.
42:32Let's just swap our partners for that.
42:34No, but that is we're right there. We're
42:36on the we're on the doorstep of that
42:37world.
42:38And do you know what, though? Think
42:39about all the lonely people.
42:42Think about all the lonely people that
42:43can now have a companion. I think Think
42:45about it like that.
42:46Is it a real connection?
42:47If you're somebody who can't find a
42:49companion in real life or you're lonely,
42:51I mean, it's better than a dog, isn't
42:53it? I mean, it's I I I mean, I think
42:55that's got some really nice applications
42:57to it. But it's also got some dire
42:59applications to it. Because then, you
43:01know, ultimately, we'll end up with a
43:03with no population, will we, cuz no one
43:05will be having sex with a real person.
43:06Yeah.
43:09Dave's going to be slightly more less
43:13lonely potentially, right? But
43:16Mhm. if we if we go up that exponential
43:18curve of improvement, we get to a point
43:20where this thing is walking, it's
43:22talking, it is making making your
43:24breakfast, your dinner, your whatever,
43:26then it's satisfying you on demand. And
43:28then you look over at a human and you go
43:30uh
43:31They're going to be more interesting
43:32than humans, aren't they?
43:34That's what I'm saying. They're going to
43:35be more interesting, they're going to be
43:36better in every way at, you know, every
43:38way at
43:38will be more interesting, surely. You
43:40you think?
43:40like somebody like a It's like a yes
43:42person. I don't want a yes person in my
43:43life. I want somebody who's going to
43:45challenge me.
43:45they do?
43:46Yeah. People I think people will choose
43:49the short-term Mhm. without thinking
43:51about the long-term of like connection
43:53and companionship over time and
43:55challenge and different solving problems
43:57and
43:57You'd you know, I think the average
43:59person, if they could be faced with a
44:00with if they were to draw their perfect
44:02partner, they wouldn't say, "I want
44:04difficulty No. and challenge and
44:06sometimes to walk out on arguments and
44:09to be interrupted when the football's
44:10on." Yeah.
44:11Yeah, you're not going to put that in
44:12there. But then I think surely over time
44:14I don't know. I I do worry about AI with
44:17humans and I don't share, you know, like
44:19some people present the argument of
44:21like, "We'll be free to do all these
44:22amazing esoteric things." We won't.
44:24We'll just sit there and look at social
44:25media and get fat and drink and
44:27sit in our rooms watching porn. That's
44:28what we'll do. Yeah, cuz we choose the
44:30like short-term dopamine hit over the
44:31long-term. Yeah, instant gratification.
44:33Gosh, that is scary. That's going to be
44:35a huge industry. Yeah. I mean, it
44:36already is a big industry.
44:38But but these these living AI sex dolls
44:41will be a huge industry.
44:42Mhm. I don't think they've quite
44:43perfected the robot bit, though, have
44:44they? Um so, there's a couple of things
44:47happening in in tandem. I mean, Elon
44:48Musk is is is working on his own um
44:51robots at Tesla. We have Boston
44:53Robotics, I believe they're called, who
44:54have been working on robots for a long
44:55time. But um
44:57it's going to move very quickly as as
44:59all all exponential curves do. So, now
45:02we've got the kind of
45:03machine learning modeling um ML MLM AGI,
45:07they call it, artificial general
45:08intelligence stuff moving quickly. The
45:10robotic side, I think, is going to gain
45:12pace because now there's a greater
45:13demand. But it's really, really It's one
45:14of the things I am Did you see that film
45:17Blade back in the day? No. I saw Lars
45:19and the Real Real Girl. Do you remember
45:21that? That was about a guy who had a sex
45:22doll. Oh, really? And the whole village
45:24um sort of accepted it. And then when he
45:26didn't need her, he got a real person at
45:28the end. But no, I didn't see Blade. I
45:30just there's a scene in this film called
45:31Blade where he puts on a headset and
45:32it's set I mean, it was 20 years ago,
45:34but it was set in the
45:35in the future. Puts the headset on and
45:38this headset, you know, is exactly that.
45:40It's an AI that basically gets him off.
45:42And he has the time of his life. And
45:43actually, they sit his cup his partner
45:45sits opposite him and they both put the
45:46headset on.
45:48And they Yeah, actually, I do think I
45:49did see that. Yeah. It's a scary world.
45:51what we'll be doing. We will be doing
45:53that.
45:55I mean, we're kind of going that way
45:56already with porn. And we talked about
45:57this sort of macro decline in sex.
46:00Are you hopeful that we can turn that
46:02around?
46:03Um yes. And I have great help hope with
46:09the young generation of women. I think
46:11this is the first generation of women
46:13who really have probably the least
46:15sexual hang-ups that we've ever had. And
46:19I think that
46:20I mean
46:21young women are much more adventurous
46:23than young men. It's sort of going
46:26in a weird direction, I think, that way.
46:28And all the young women that I'm in
46:29contact with I'm talking about young
46:31women in their 20s, early 30s.
46:33We know that young women are more
46:35bi-curious than men. We know that young
46:38women are more interested in threesomes
46:40with two women than men are.
46:43We know that young women are more
46:45interested in going to a sex club than
46:46men are.
46:47We know that young women are more
46:49interested in polyamory. And they they
46:51don't want several love relationships.
46:53They want
46:55the lovely relationship, and then they
46:56want to be able to have sex with men on
46:57the side. It's not men thinking like
46:59this. This is women thinking like this.
47:01And
47:02I think that it's going to make for more
47:04interesting relationships. And because
47:06the whole women are overturning
47:08everything. Like
47:09the motivation for affairs now has
47:11completely reversed. So, men used to
47:14have affairs for sex. Now most men, if
47:16they're in a good relationship, will
47:18satisfy that with porn, right? Most men.
47:21Um now men have affairs for love and
47:24affection.
47:26Women have affairs They used to have
47:28affairs for love that they weren't
47:30getting from their partner. Now they
47:32have affairs for erotic sex. Sex where
47:35they're not looking after their partner,
47:37they can be selfish, they don't have to
47:38care about whether they hurt his
47:40feelings or say, "Don't do it that way."
47:41They're not going to care about whether
47:43Stephen doesn't like it if he's being
47:44instructed. It's like, "Do that. Do
47:46this." They want that sort of sex,
47:47right? And that's why they're having
47:48affairs. So, I feel like my hope is that
47:52women are going to take the charge and
47:54go forward, and we're going to end up
47:56with sex that's more interesting, sex
47:59that's less doing everything to please a
48:01man, more
48:02equal, you know, "This is what I need.
48:04This is what I want. This is what you
48:06need. This is what you want. Let's work
48:07out the best way to do that together."
48:10Not where, you know, because so many
48:11women still now, that's the thing that
48:13does disappoint me,
48:14is still have sex to please men, still
48:18pretend to have orgasms during
48:20penetrative sex because society's
48:22brainwashed. We have known that women
48:24don't orgasm basically through
48:26penetrative sex since Kama Sutra, which
48:28was written in the 3rd to 5th century.
48:31And yet most men will go, "Yeah, yeah.
48:34Yeah, I've heard about that.
48:35I've heard about that. It hasn't
48:36happened to me. I've just been really
48:38lucky." Or my girlfriends, you know. I
48:40mean, it's just like they're faking.
48:42They're faking because the girl before
48:44faked and they feel they have to fake.
48:45And
48:46you know, every depiction of sex is
48:48that, you know, everybody has this
48:51mutual orgasm, simultaneous orgasm
48:54together.
48:55And that's just how sex is. Well, it's
48:57not like that. It's it's totally not
48:59like that at all. Speaking of young
49:01women, in your book Great Sex Starts at
49:0350, one of the things you talk about is
49:05the issue of sort of sexual confidence
49:07and sexual self-esteem. Um talk about
49:10that in the opening chapter of the book.
49:12And
49:13I found it really compelling that it
49:15really interesting that
49:17women
49:18view them selves differently when they
49:21look in the mirror, which has a libido
49:23impact. Body image is terrible. They've
49:26just done a study which looked at
49:29two decade 20 years of studies. So, they
49:31did a study on all the studies on body
49:33image. And it turns out that it impacts
49:35every single area of sex,
49:37regularity of sex, enjoyment of sex,
49:40arousal, desire, orgasm. And it makes
49:44sense that if you don't like your body,
49:46you're not going to want anyone to look
49:47at it or touch it. It is the biggest
49:49problem with women today and their sex
49:51lives is that often, you know, this is
49:53the other thing with your friends,
49:55you know, have they just had babies? Has
49:57their body changed? You know, are they
49:58not feeling so desirable? You know,
50:01desire, I think, feeling desired by your
50:03partner is much more important to women
50:06than, you know, anything else. If your
50:08partner looks at you and they, you know,
50:09like, "God, you're so hot, you're so
50:11sexy." That is the biggest turn-on of
50:13all.
50:14And if you're feeling not great about
50:16yourself and your mindset is so much
50:18down on yourself that you think, "I
50:19don't even How could he possibly look at
50:21me and think that I'm attractive?" Then
50:23you'll never feel that you your partner
50:25could fancy you to death, but you're
50:26never going to feel it because your
50:27brain's just gone, "Nope. I am not
50:29sexually attractive anymore."
50:31So, that is a real problem. It's a real
50:33problem. And do you know what the
50:34solution is for that?
50:36It's not to go off and get a facelift or
50:39get your hair done or lose weight or go
50:42to the gym more. Though, actually, going
50:43to the gym more is one. Exercise is
50:45really good for your sex drive and for
50:47your self-esteem.
50:49But the other thing is that cures body
50:51image is um is actually to have sex
50:55more.
50:56If you have sex more often and your
50:58partner enjoys it, your brain goes on a
51:01subconscious level, "Well, you know
51:03what? It can't be that bad because he's
51:06having sex with me or she's having sex
51:07with me, whoever's having sex with you.
51:09They're enjoying it." And so, you it
51:10start your brain starts to make sense of
51:12it all and go, "Okay, right. You know,
51:14this is
51:16I'm obviously not as undesirable as I
51:17think." And it starts to sort of become
51:19better and more able to be dealt with.
51:21So, the more you have sex, the better
51:23because it gives you confidence. And
51:26sexually confident women
51:28women who think they're good in bed. So,
51:30increase your skills as well. If you're
51:31worried if that you're not a great
51:32lover, read up on it. Buy some of the
51:34books. Go online. Look up technique. You
51:36know, cuz technique is very important.
51:38And the better lover you think you are,
51:40the less you worry about what you look
51:41like in bed. We all know that. Sexually
51:43confident women win all the time. And
51:46sexually confident women
51:48put on weight the same way other people
51:49do as they get on in life, etc., etc.
51:52You know, their bodies are different
51:53after pregnancy, but they don't focus on
51:54that. They're like, "Hey, I'm a
51:55brilliant lover. Who cares? You know,
51:57he's not looking at that. He's just
51:58thinking how fantastic I am."
52:00So, it's more about increase your
52:02confidence as a lover, exercise more,
52:06and I mean, then the obvious, take
52:08yourself off of social media, stop
52:09comparing yourself to other people, all
52:11that sort of stuff. But it's it's
52:12difficult. It's very difficult. And I
52:14think men suffer from this as well.
52:16That's so unbelievably true, especially
52:19um
52:20especially the part that it also relates
52:21to men because I've got multiple
52:22accounts from female friends of mine
52:24that are in a heterosexual relationship
52:26that have told me their partner won't
52:28have sex with them with his top off or
52:31with the lights on. Um and also the
52:33point there about how you solve that
52:35body confidence issue, that
52:37confidence comes from the evidence you
52:39get from doing the thing. Yeah.
52:42And also, if you are worried about your
52:43body, when you're having sex, close your
52:46eyes.
52:47Like, close your eyes and think about
52:48what you're feeling. It's about what it
52:49what you're feeling, not like how you're
52:51looking. Because if it's stressing you
52:52out and you're looking and thinking, "Oh
52:53my god, he's looking at my thighs. He's
52:55looking at this." Just close your eyes
52:56and go into yourself. Or, become more
52:59active. That's the other way to overcome
53:01body issues. Is if you're really active
53:03in bed and you're like looking at your
53:05partner and you're talking dirty and
53:06you're making lots of eye contact that
53:08way, anything to sort of take yourself
53:10out of yourself is good. You either go
53:12into yourself and focus on what you're
53:14feeling rather than what you're looking
53:15like, or you sort of become way more
53:18active. That also works. Three things
53:21that boost sexual self-esteem easily in
53:23your book.
53:24Initiate sex to feel more powerful. Yes,
53:27absolutely. Initiation is such a big
53:29thing on so many levels. And if you
53:32don't ever initiate sex with your
53:33partner, you're essentially saying, "I
53:36don't actually enjoy having sex with
53:37you. I'm only having sex with you
53:39because you've asked me to have sex with
53:40you."
53:41And people argue about that. It's like,
53:43"Well, his sex drive's way bigger or,
53:45you know, higher and all that sort of
53:46stuff." It doesn't matter. You really
53:47need to have a thing where, you know, if
53:50if your partner's got a much bigger sex
53:51drive than you, you need to say
53:52something, "Look, okay. It's really sexy
53:55being the person who's the sexy one in
53:57the relationship. That's why, you know,
53:58it's great. It's nice to be that person.
54:00But I want to be the sexy one in the
54:02relationship. So, hold off on initiating
54:04for a while and give me a chance to
54:06initiate so that I can feel more
54:07powerful." And it's it's such a great
54:11dynamic that. That power dynamic in in,
54:13you know, relationships is really
54:14important that you have to be sometimes
54:16the dominant person, you have to be the
54:19submissive person. And if you swap
54:21around, it makes for a much more
54:22interesting sex life. But if you don't
54:24initiate, I mean, it's a real cop-out to
54:26never initiate sex. I really do think
54:28so. And when women do it who don't often
54:31initiate sex,
54:33what often happens is that they'll be so
54:34subtle that the man misses the point
54:38completely. It's like, "Well, I gave him
54:39this really sexy kiss." And it was like,
54:41"Yeah, and? Yeah, anything else?
54:43Anything else that went with that?" And
54:44and he didn't even, you know, and now
54:46I'm not going to do that again. It's
54:47like, "Oh, for God's sake, just be
54:48really obvious about it."
54:50Be really obvious about it. And going
54:53back to initiation, just be aware
54:56that how you initiate sex
54:58will influence whether or not your
55:01partner says yes. So, if you initiate
55:03sex the wrong way, your partner might
55:05say no to sex because you just
55:09approached it all the wrong way.
55:10Whereas, if you approach your partner
55:13that you know has got a responsive sex
55:15drive by talking, cuddling, connecting,
55:19whatever she wants could be, you know,
55:21she might want you to
55:22initiate sex like that. But you know,
55:25and getting her in the mood the way she
55:27wants to be in the mood, not the way you
55:28would like her to get in the mood, but
55:29the way she wants to be in the mood,
55:31she'll probably say yes to sex. So, a
55:33lot of people saying no to sex isn't
55:36that they don't want sex, they're just
55:38being approached the wrong way and
55:40they're not being warmed up the right
55:41way.
55:42So, if you can solve those two basic
55:44things, it can change everything. Feels
55:47like there's something really fun-
55:48fundamental here that we we assume sex
55:50will take care of itself. It never Oh my
55:53god. Writing all those sex books, when I
55:55go to a dinner party, people either want
55:57to sit next to me or they go as far away
55:59from me as they possibly can because
56:00they're terrified. And the people who
56:03say to me, "Oh God, but I don't need a
56:05sex book."
56:06I'm like, "Yes, you do. You're the
56:08person that needs a sex book. I've
56:10written 17 of them and I'm still
56:12learning about sex. There is so much to
56:14learn about sex. How can you think you
56:15possibly know everything about sex
56:17without ever educating yourself?" And
56:19it's changing. Of course it is. But
56:21people who think that they're born great
56:23lovers, they don't, you know, I mean,
56:25the female response system is
56:26complicated. Who knew what a clitoris
56:28was back in the day? You know, like
56:30they're difficult to stimulate.
56:31Actually, they're not that difficult.
56:32You just give it a vibrator and then
56:34they're fine. But um you know, it's not
56:36easy being a great lover. And can I just
56:39say one more thing about orgasms is we
56:41worry too much about orgasms and how we
56:44get them. There is no right way to have
56:47an orgasm because everyone thinks the
56:48right way to have an orgasm is during
56:50intercourse with your partner and
56:52preferably then climaxing at the same
56:53time. Simultaneous orgasms hardly ever
56:56happen for a start. They're always
56:57faked.
56:58So,
56:59the easiest way to give a woman an
57:01orgasm, I mean, great women who can be
57:03very easily orgasmic if you use the
57:05right finger technique, if you give her
57:07the right oral sex technique. But the
57:09thing that is most expert at stimulating
57:11the clitoris is vibration.
57:14Most women can have an orgasm within 3
57:16minutes with a vibrator. So, we have
57:19this big orgasm gap problem where men
57:21are having lots of orgasms during
57:22partner sex, women aren't having very
57:25many orgasms during partner sex because
57:27they don't understand each other very
57:28well, because sometimes people just just
57:31can't relax with another person there,
57:32right?
57:33So, the solution is to put your hand in
57:37the bedside drawer and bring out a
57:38vibrator and she would have an orgasm
57:40every single time the same way you have
57:42an orgasm every single time. Why don't
57:44we all just do this? It's the easiest
57:46solution in the world. But we don't.
57:48Young men are better at it. They'll
57:50often say, "Oh, you know," and she'll
57:52say, if women are honest and they'll
57:53say, "Look, you know, that was
57:54fantastic, but I kind of missed the
57:55moment a bit, which you can as a woman.
57:58Can I just use my vibrator or can you
57:59use the vibrator on me?"
58:01Sorted. But we have this like, "That's a
58:04cheating orgasm." Yeah, or that it takes
58:06something away from what sex is supposed
58:09to be.
58:10But it's a solution. I'm not saying have
58:12all your orgasms like that. But just
58:15maybe now and then have the vibrator in
58:17the bed. And why is it inferior? If you
58:18can have all that intimacy, if you've
58:20had the oral sex, you've had the
58:22intercourse, you thoroughly enjoyed it,
58:24but it just hasn't given you that tip
58:26over.
58:27What I mean by that question about this
58:29fundamental belief that kind of sex is
58:31supposed to take care of itself. And I
58:33think that's why we don't talk about it
58:35enough. We don't research about it
58:37enough. We don't um try put invest in
58:40making it new and exciting and different
58:41and all the things you've said is
58:43because we just just cuz at the start it
58:45kind of takes care of itself, doesn't
58:46it?
58:46it does, yeah. First couple of months
58:48and then All the sex hormones are there
58:50driving us, driving us without even us
58:51having to think about it.
58:52And then we you don't think about sex as
58:54something you've got to work on and and
58:55talk about and invest in and buy stuff
58:58for and, you know, change all the time.
59:00I've already got a job. You know, I
59:02don't
59:02I know.
59:03Well, unfortunately, that's what you
59:05have to do if you want a good sex life.
59:06It's it's it's what you do. And the
59:09thing is, it makes me laugh because we
59:10put effort into every other thing. You
59:12don't like eat the same meal every
59:14single night. You find it buy a good
59:16cookbook and look up recipes and
59:18experiment with different things. And no
59:19one goes, "Oh, that's terrible. That's
59:21so much effort. I don't want to have to
59:22do that. I want to know how to cook a
59:23three-course cordon bleu meal without
59:25even looking at a cookbook."
59:26Well, in the movies, they never do
59:28There's no movie where they sit and talk
59:29about sex. What did you like? Like you
59:30liked it when I did that. In the movies
59:32they they come in the door and they pick
59:34him up and they put their hands back and
59:36they rip the dress off.
59:37You know, and then Do you know what? I'm
59:39the worst person to watch TV with cuz I
59:40shout at the television. Honestly, there
59:42was a thing called Dr. Foster. Did you
59:44watch that? Suranne Jones was in it and
59:46there was this couple. They'd been
59:48together 10 years.
59:49They woke up on a Sunday morning, right?
59:51Sunday morning, just woke up. She's of
59:53course full makeup, lingerie,
59:54everything.
59:56And next minute he's like throwing her
59:59against the wall. They're having sex
1:00:00standing up and you know, like all the I
1:00:02thought, oh
1:00:04for God's sake. This is a couple 10
1:00:06years in. It is not happening like that.
1:00:09And then even me who knows that this
1:00:11doesn't happen, this is not the norm.
1:00:13I'm like a little bit like and I always
1:00:15turn to poor Miles and I say, you
1:00:17realize that's not true. You realize
1:00:19this is not a real and and he's sort of
1:00:21you know, like sitting there going, yep,
1:00:22yep, I do know.
1:00:24Like cover your eyes.
1:00:26Don't have unrealistic expectations.
1:00:27Don't think you're missing out on this.
1:00:29And because it's sad because people try
1:00:32and they think that that hot sex at the
1:00:34beginning should last a lifetime. And
1:00:36when it goes and you think the next
1:00:38person you meet is this going to last
1:00:39forever. This is this one's going to
1:00:41last forever. And then of course it dies
1:00:42down and dies down and dies down and
1:00:43you're like, damn it, I've got the wrong
1:00:44person. You haven't got the wrong
1:00:46person. It's because all the sex and
1:00:48love hormones have stopped working.
1:00:51That's the only way to keep having sex
1:00:53the like that. The only way to keep
1:00:55having that beginning sex over and over
1:00:57is to swap partners. Constantly.
1:00:59Constantly swap partners and you can
1:01:01have that over and over again. It is
1:01:03impossible to have the type of sex you
1:01:06have at the start when you're fueled by
1:01:07all these chemicals
1:01:09at the end of a relationship or during a
1:01:11relationship. Anything over 2 years it's
1:01:13very You can have satisfying sex, great
1:01:16sex, exciting sex, but it's not fueled
1:01:19by the same hormones. So you cannot
1:01:21recreate that. And if people knew that,
1:01:23no matter what person you end up with,
1:01:26then they would stop leaving perfectly
1:01:28good relationships in search of
1:01:30something that's not ever going to be
1:01:31found.
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1:02:27I've talked in this conversation as if
1:02:29sexless relationships are unhappy
1:02:31relationships. Yes. But that is not
1:02:32true, is it?
1:02:33No, it's not true. You can often have I
1:02:35mean, people do instantly think if
1:02:37they're not having sex, oh my god, you
1:02:38know, divorce is coming soon. No. I
1:02:40mean, you can get Sex isn't the be-all
1:02:43and end-all for everybody. Lots of
1:02:44people have very low sexual libidos. If
1:02:46you've got two people
1:02:48who have low sex drives, they have a lot
1:02:50of sex at the beginning or maybe not
1:02:51even that much. And then all of a sudden
1:02:53it fades off.
1:02:54They're perfectly happy. Some people are
1:02:56happy having, you know, one great
1:02:58session every 6 months. That's enough
1:03:00for them. It keeps them perfectly
1:03:01satisfied. So long as both of you are
1:03:03like that. But what doesn't work is if
1:03:06one of you is highly sex driven. In the
1:03:09beginning, you know, we all worry about
1:03:10compatibility. Please measure, you know,
1:03:12match up with somebody who has the same
1:03:14sex drive as you. And I know it's
1:03:15artificially inflated at the beginning,
1:03:17but don't commit to anything until
1:03:20you're 6 months in, 8 months in, a year
1:03:22in. Don't marry anyone under that
1:03:23because you don't know what their sex
1:03:25drive is. Wait until after a year and
1:03:27then you see and it's very difficult if
1:03:29you've got a massively high sex drive
1:03:31and your other one doesn't. But you can
1:03:33be perfectly happy in sexless
1:03:35relationships so long as both of you are
1:03:37happy with that. And also,
1:03:40you know, they used to define a sexless
1:03:42relationship as couples who had sex 10
1:03:44times a year. Now plenty of couples,
1:03:47especially couples over 50, only have
1:03:49sex 10 times a year and they were like
1:03:50indignant to be described as sexless. So
1:03:53now they've changed it to a sexless
1:03:56relationship is one where sex hasn't
1:03:57happened in a year.
1:03:59And that's low sex relationship to be 10
1:04:01times a year. But it's all dependent on
1:04:04where you're at in life. Like if you if
1:04:06you've just had babies and they're under
1:04:08two, you're not going to be having a lot
1:04:10of sex. If you're 18, you just got
1:04:12together, you're going to be having an
1:04:13awful lot of sex. You know, if your
1:04:15partner if you've just gone through
1:04:16menopause or perimenopause and
1:04:17everything's gone to hell, you're not
1:04:18going to be having sex at that period of
1:04:20time. So you can't There is no one size
1:04:23fits all thing. So find your normal is
1:04:25what I would say. And if your normal is
1:04:28no sex, so long as you have a
1:04:30conversation about it, that's fine. But
1:04:32you what you cannot do
1:04:34is stop sex and not talk about it. That
1:04:37is really, really dangerous. You've got
1:04:39to have some kind of discussion even if
1:04:41that's
1:04:42getting into bed one night and one of
1:04:44you says, we don't have sex much
1:04:46anymore. Do you Does it bother you? No,
1:04:48it doesn't really bother me. Good.
1:04:50Even if it's that.
1:04:52But you do need and you need to have
1:04:53lots of affection, lots of You need to
1:04:56make up for that. Don't stop touching
1:04:58physically because when sex stops,
1:05:00people often stop touching each other
1:05:02because they're worried that that's
1:05:03going to lead to sex and that's going to
1:05:04be awkward. So keep up the effect That's
1:05:06why you've got to have the chat. If you
1:05:08don't have the chat, affection stops.
1:05:10And if affection and sex stops, then you
1:05:12are in trouble.
1:05:14If you've got lots of affection, you're
1:05:15okay so long as both of you are happy.
1:05:19Interesting.
1:05:21But you're not going to be happy if one
1:05:22person doesn't want sex to stop and the
1:05:24other one does. That doesn't make for a
1:05:25happy relationship at all. And in that
1:05:27situation, is it right to then just
1:05:29leave? No, you have to chat. And the
1:05:31chat is But they say in the chat, no, I
1:05:33want more sex. I don't want more sex.
1:05:35Then what you do?
1:05:36Well, then you look at exactly You sort
1:05:38of go through a process. So you have the
1:05:40chat. You talk about You make sure the
1:05:42sex that's on offer is good sex for the
1:05:44person who doesn't want it. You look at
1:05:46anything around it like, you know, have
1:05:47they got any childhood issues that need
1:05:49dealing with? What are their, you know,
1:05:50why don't Do they not want to want? If
1:05:52they don't want to want, then you need
1:05:54to look at what happened, you know,
1:05:56sexual trauma. There's I mean, if the
1:05:58person that doesn't want to have sex
1:05:59with you is willing to look at ways to
1:06:02become more sexual, stay. Of course
1:06:05stay.
1:06:06You know, there's always hope. Yes,
1:06:08there's tons of stuff you can do. You
1:06:09know, you can you can take strip sex
1:06:11right back to basics where you don't
1:06:13have penetrative sex for a year. You
1:06:15might do the sensate focus program which
1:06:17is all about touching each other without
1:06:19sexual intent and it might be that you
1:06:21have to go almost like you got to learn
1:06:23how to have sex all over again. If your
1:06:26partner's willing to try,
1:06:28anything's possible. Definitely don't
1:06:29walk out. But if your partner says, I
1:06:32don't want to have sex with you and I've
1:06:34no interest in having sex. I've got no
1:06:37interest in trying to, you know, bring
1:06:39get back my desire and you're not
1:06:41allowed to have sex either. You're not
1:06:43allowed to seek it anywhere else or, you
1:06:44know, apart from running off to the
1:06:46office and masturbating to porn, well,
1:06:49what choice have you got? I mean, some
1:06:50people stay. Some people stay in that
1:06:52scenario because the love is very
1:06:53strong. And they've got kids or
1:06:55whatever, but I think that's an
1:06:56incredibly selfish thing to say to a
1:06:58partner. Chapter 9 of your book is that
1:07:0033% of
1:07:02couples said that they rarely or never
1:07:05have had sex and one quarter of those
1:07:07rated themselves as being extremely
1:07:10happy. That's right. Something something
1:07:12like 75% of people who are denied sex
1:07:16nearly all of the time stay if the love
1:07:18is strong. People choose love over sex.
1:07:21They course they do because how often
1:07:23are you having sex? Even if you're
1:07:24having sex a lot, even if you're having
1:07:25sex once a day, twice a day, it's still
1:07:28only really for half an hour each time.
1:07:30So, you know, in the proportion of the
1:07:32time you spend together, you're
1:07:34the love bit's more important than the
1:07:36sex bit. Definitely is. Unless the sex
1:07:38bit is really bad and then it tends to
1:07:40poison the rest of the relationship.
1:07:43Do you do any sort of therapy for
1:07:44couples? Do Do couples ever come to you
1:07:45for
1:07:46No. And
1:07:47And And do individuals come to you for
1:07:49advice in a professional context to get
1:07:51No. No. I do friends and and friends of
1:07:53friends and stuff like that. I don't
1:07:54because
1:07:55I lack the
1:07:57skills to disassociate. Oh, okay.
1:07:59That's why I never became a therapist
1:08:01because I'm not very good at There are
1:08:03ways to solve a problem where you can
1:08:04stand outside the problem or you stand
1:08:06right in the middle of it all and take
1:08:07it all on and I'm the stand in the
1:08:09middle person. And I And I wouldn't ever
1:08:11be able to I would have no boundaries.
1:08:13They'd be calling me day and night. So
1:08:14no, I can't do that.
1:08:16What are the most
1:08:18common questions that people ask you
1:08:21about sex? And I'd like the ones that we
1:08:25don't talk about enough. So, you know,
1:08:28I don't know whether it's erectile
1:08:29dysfunction or whether it's a
1:08:30god, erectile dysfunction for men is
1:08:32Women don't appreciate how having not
1:08:35being able to get an erection or, you
1:08:36know,
1:08:38is is the biggest psychological
1:08:40catastrophe Yeah.
1:08:41men experience.
1:08:42We can't fake it. No. No. I Penis envy,
1:08:45who wants a penis? I certainly don't
1:08:46want a penis. It's all out there to see.
1:08:48We can fake everything. Mhm. But it's
1:08:49really difficult for men and I think men
1:08:52I mean, we have a problem with Viagra,
1:08:53by the way. Viagra is a big problem
1:08:55because young men take Viagra because
1:08:58they want to have the biggest, hardest
1:08:59erections ever and they're worried
1:09:01They're so performance, you know, they
1:09:03have so much performance anxiety cuz
1:09:04they're watching too much porn and they
1:09:06think that that's real. So they take
1:09:08Viagra because they think just this
1:09:10once, you know, I'll be I'll be I'll
1:09:12just be first time I sleep with her, I
1:09:13want to be really hard. And then of
1:09:15course, you know, eventually you stop it
1:09:17or try to and your girlfriend says, oh,
1:09:19this isn't you know, you're not as hard
1:09:21as you normally are and suddenly you're
1:09:22back on this cycle and then young women
1:09:24expect that that is a normal erection
1:09:26which is not. Anyone who's looked at a
1:09:28Viagra-driven erection and a normal
1:09:30erection, they're completely different.
1:09:32And then, on the other end of it, you've
1:09:34got older couples who, you know, we've
1:09:37got two problems with when you get over
1:09:3950 or 60.
1:09:41Men have erectile dysfunction and women
1:09:43have, you know, dry vaginas and very,
1:09:45you know, the vagina basically
1:09:47atrophies. So, they've solved it for
1:09:49men. Great. Take this pill and suddenly
1:09:51you're like you were 18 again, but
1:09:53you're still with this vagina that's not
1:09:5518, where it's going to hurt like hell.
1:09:57And then the man who's suddenly got the
1:09:59swinging penis is like, "Well, what am I
1:10:01supposed to do with this?" And then he
1:10:02goes off and cheats with somebody
1:10:03because he's so happy to have this this
1:10:05big rock-hard erection again. Is there a
1:10:08relationship between age and infidelity?
1:10:11Um, I'm not sure about that. I would say
1:10:15As in men cheating later more likely to
1:10:16cheat later in life or I know that
1:10:18middle-aged people cheat a lot because
1:10:20that's when you've you've Got choices.
1:10:22Yeah. Yeah, you've got choices. You're
1:10:23traveling. You've got money. It's
1:10:25probably easy to get away with. You're
1:10:26bored. You've had the kids. You know,
1:10:28you've started to take everything for
1:10:30granted.
1:10:31Um
1:10:32You know, things like that make people
1:10:33cheat. It's it's opportunity,
1:10:35temptation, and and your moral code, you
1:10:37know. It's not to do with love. It is to
1:10:39do with respect, though.
1:10:41Red flags in relationships. The most
1:10:44compatible couples have compatible life
1:10:46goals. Mhm. Something I've heard you say
1:10:48before. Yes.
1:10:50I think that is really important because
1:10:52it is all about it's timing is so
1:10:54important. And and life goals. Say
1:10:56you've got, you know, you've got the
1:10:57perfect relationship now. Your
1:10:58girlfriend's great. Say suddenly you
1:11:00decided, "Right, I want to go off to
1:11:01Africa and work with pygmies for
1:11:055 years. This is my life goal." You
1:11:08know, what's she supposed to do?
1:11:10Of course it's important to have the
1:11:11same goals. If you've got one person who
1:11:13wants adventure and, you like to be
1:11:15hiking every weekend and, you know,
1:11:17camping, my idea of hell,
1:11:19they're not going to match well with
1:11:20somebody like me who wants to be in a
1:11:21nice hotel and, you know,
1:11:23having lots of cocktails. You know what
1:11:25I mean? Like,
1:11:26I don't mind the odd camping and hiking,
1:11:27but do you know what I mean? Like,
1:11:28you've got to have you've got to be
1:11:29compatible. There's some stereotypes
1:11:31that still sort of exist and linger
1:11:33around sex and men and women being, you
1:11:35know, one of the ones that I was reading
1:11:37about in chapter six of your book is
1:11:38studies show it's it's not true men have
1:11:40a higher sex drive than women.
1:11:42Women have a different desire for sex,
1:11:44which you talked about. Studies also
1:11:46show it's not true that monogamy is
1:11:47harder for men than it is for women. We
1:11:49tend to think that men are the ones that
1:11:50cheat.
1:11:51Mhm. Exactly. Which has never made sense
1:11:53because if we just pretend the world for
1:11:54a second was
1:11:55do the heterosexual equation. Mhm.
1:11:58Every time a a man is having sex in a
1:12:00heterosexual heterosexual world, so is a
1:12:02woman.
1:12:03So, you know, the numbers don't quite
1:12:05add up. One would assert just from the
1:12:07looking at the numbers that it's got to
1:12:08be quite close to like 50/50 to some
1:12:10degree.
1:12:10Yeah, of course. And also, like, if you
1:12:12look at the stats on who's happiest, the
1:12:14happiest people are single women and
1:12:16married men.
1:12:17They're the two happiest groups of
1:12:18people always. Single women and married
1:12:21men are the happiest?
1:12:22are the happiest groups of people. Like,
1:12:23not married women.
1:12:25Married women like end up doing all the
1:12:28jobs and, you know, married women aren't
1:12:30happier than single women.
1:12:32Single women are happier than married
1:12:33women. And married men are really happy
1:12:35because they get everything done for
1:12:37them, basically.
1:12:39What role do do kids play in this whole
1:12:40equation? Oh my god, kids, I think
1:12:44really make the love part better, I
1:12:46suppose, cuz you've created that thing,
1:12:48but they're terrible for sex. Terrible
1:12:50for sex. I mean, the minute the kids
1:12:52come along, you can kiss goodbye for sex
1:12:53for 5 years, really. Really?
1:12:55freak about it and they're like, "It's
1:12:57never going to come back." And it will
1:12:58come back, of course it will, but, you
1:12:59know, it all your energy is going to
1:13:01children. So, I think if you're going to
1:13:02have kids, you've got to accept that
1:13:04your sex life is going to take a
1:13:06backseat
1:13:07for a long, long time. Don't panic about
1:13:09it. Keep having little sexual
1:13:10connections that aren't necessarily
1:13:12including intercourse, little bite-size
1:13:14pieces of sex, and you'll be fine. But
1:13:16don't kid yourself that it's not going
1:13:17to change your sex life because it will.
1:13:19Boy, will it. Some people think that
1:13:21having kids will save the relationship.
1:13:23no. It's so stressful.
1:13:26I don't I do not understand this. Every
1:13:27time I see somebody with a child, you
1:13:29only have to hang around children for
1:13:31about 2 seconds to realize how stressful
1:13:32they are. If you've already got problems
1:13:35with your relationship and suddenly
1:13:37you're going to sleep deprive yourself,
1:13:38you're going to make have somebody
1:13:40dependent on you 24 hours a day, how is
1:13:42this going to make you more,
1:13:44you know, happier with your husband? It
1:13:45doesn't even make sense to me. It might
1:13:47stop people leaving because of, you
1:13:49know,
1:13:50obligation, but who wants to be with
1:13:52somebody out of obligation?
1:13:54You said something that um
1:13:56in your work that a neuroscientist told
1:13:58me on this podcast, which is that after
1:14:00the first year non-parents are generally
1:14:03happier
1:14:04over time than parents. Mhm. It's kind
1:14:07of a controversial idea. It is a
1:14:08controversial idea, but I mean, there's
1:14:10a trade-off with kids. There's such a
1:14:12trade-off. You can never I mean, and I
1:14:14think there's a I've I'm a step-parent.
1:14:16My husband has a daughter. And when
1:14:19we're going through hassles with Sophia,
1:14:21which she she's a little darling, but
1:14:23also could be a little devil, let me
1:14:25tell you. Um
1:14:27He can sleep. I mean, sorry, I can
1:14:28sleep. Miles can't sleep.
1:14:31And when I and I lie there and I think,
1:14:32"Gosh, if I'd given birth to Sophia, if
1:14:35she'd been, you know, I wouldn't be able
1:14:36to sleep." There's no way that I'd be
1:14:38able to sleep. It's it's you are
1:14:40knowing that you're going to be worrying
1:14:41for the rest of your life once you have
1:14:42a kid.
1:14:44It's it's such a big responsibility. And
1:14:47when you have that responsibility, it
1:14:48mean, you know, you're not going to be
1:14:50able to do you're not selfless. You
1:14:53become selfless then, don't you? You
1:14:54can't be selfish and have a kid. Well,
1:14:56you can. You can be a really bad parent.
1:14:58But it's different, isn't it?
1:15:00It's really different. I'm sure but then
1:15:02parents say, "Well, you're the one
1:15:03that's missed out because you don't have
1:15:05this incredible." And I have such a good
1:15:07relationship with my mom and my dad and
1:15:09and us three kids are all milling
1:15:11around. And they're like 87 and 89. I'm
1:15:13thinking no one's going to do that for
1:15:14me. Who's going to do that for me? I'll
1:15:15have to pay for it.
1:15:16Mhm. So, there is that. When I hear that
1:15:18stuff, I do do wonder if it's the term
1:15:20happiness is the confusing thing
1:15:21because, you know, a parent might say
1:15:23it's given me such a sense of purpose or
1:15:25meaning.
1:15:25course. If you ask me in a survey on a
1:15:27on a Tuesday how I'm feeling after
1:15:29staying up till [ __ ] 2:00 a.m. cuz
1:15:30this kid was screaming, I'm probably
1:15:32more likely to report at any given
1:15:33moment to being less happy. Mhm. But if
1:15:36you zoom out, there's more meaning and
1:15:37purpose. One might say that to to try
1:15:38and provide the counterargument. Um I
1:15:40mean, how many people if you say,
1:15:41"What's the best thing you've ever
1:15:42done?" They say having children. Yeah.
1:15:44Everybody says that. Yeah. And they
1:15:46can't all be lying. No one says a
1:15:47promotion at work or whatever else. They
1:15:49say
1:15:49No, they don't. So, it must be, you
1:15:51know, I mean, not everybody says that,
1:15:52but I I do know mothers who say, "God,
1:15:55you know what? If I look back, maybe I
1:15:57wouldn't have done this." But they're
1:15:58very brave and they tell childless women
1:16:00that. They never tell a woman with a
1:16:01child, by the way.
1:16:02Yeah, of course not.
1:16:04Women's libido I was reading in um in
1:16:07chapter six about women's libido tends
1:16:09to drop
1:16:10as as as they age, whereas men's um
1:16:13seems to remain fairly stable throughout
1:16:16the relationship. Stable, but then they
1:16:18have the, you know, women struggle with
1:16:19the drop of um because menopause with
1:16:21all the drop of testosterone and all
1:16:23the, you know, test um estrogen, all
1:16:26those things that keep your genitals in
1:16:28good shape and keep your sex drive high.
1:16:30Men's testosterone drops as well,
1:16:32but then they're struggling with
1:16:33erections. So,
1:16:36if you're an older man and you can get
1:16:37your head around that you're not going
1:16:38to get erections as easily as you did
1:16:40and it doesn't bother you, you're going
1:16:41to be fine.
1:16:42Um if you're a woman and you actually,
1:16:45you know,
1:16:46get all the things that are available to
1:16:48you. Take HRT if you can. Like, there's
1:16:50solutions for all of this. And don't
1:16:52think to yourself, "Oh, well, we're old
1:16:53now. We're not going to be sexual."
1:16:55You'll be fine as well, but I think
1:16:56people panic,
1:16:58you know, when they hit a certain age.
1:16:59And there's this perception, you know,
1:17:00like, you know, people get I did a
1:17:02campaign for Replens, which is a vaginal
1:17:04moisturizer,
1:17:06which most men blink at and and good to
1:17:08see you didn't. And it was all about and
1:17:10had these beautiful images of
1:17:12older people kissing passionately or
1:17:15naked from the back and and they were
1:17:17quite old. They and they they were the
1:17:19most beautiful images and so many people
1:17:21were threatened by that. They were
1:17:23really threatened because there was old
1:17:24people doing sexual things and it we
1:17:26we're not treated that. We don't see
1:17:29that very often. So, when somebody does
1:17:30that,
1:17:31they um yeah, people freak. They don't
1:17:33like to think about older people having
1:17:34sex. So, when you are old, you have it
1:17:36already in your head, "I'm not supposed
1:17:38to want sex anymore," which is
1:17:39completely untrue. And is that why you
1:17:40wrote a book called Great Sex Starts at
1:17:4250? Yes, because for me, that's what
1:17:45happened. I went through the whole of my
1:17:47life with a high libido.
1:17:49I've written about sex. I thought, "This
1:17:51isn't going to happen to me because I
1:17:53know everything about sex, of course."
1:17:55And then I hit like 50, no, actually
1:17:58probably even before that, and suddenly
1:18:00I realized I remember typing away one
1:18:02day and thinking, "Gosh David, I was
1:18:03single at the time. I hadn't masturbated
1:18:05for ages. What's going on? Haven't even
1:18:07thought about sex for ages." And it's
1:18:09the drop in hormones. And, you know, and
1:18:12it's quite extraordinary to that whole
1:18:14spontaneous desire. I had very high
1:18:16spontaneous desire and suddenly it went.
1:18:18So, I just suddenly became like other
1:18:20women, I suppose.
1:18:21And suddenly it was like, "Oh my god, I
1:18:24see what everyone's going on about." So,
1:18:25I thought, "For my own sake, I might
1:18:27write that book."
1:18:28And it's very good writing that book.
1:18:30There's a lot of solutions in there.
1:18:32What are some of the most important
1:18:33solutions for my listeners that are
1:18:35maybe experiencing a similar
1:18:37situation? Again, manage expectations.
1:18:40Keep having sex. That whole use it or
1:18:42lose it. You've got to keep having sex.
1:18:44That's very, very important. Um get your
1:18:46head around the whole thing about that
1:18:49old doesn't mean that you can't be sexy.
1:18:50You can be It doesn't matter what you
1:18:51look like. It's what you feel like. It's
1:18:53It's so many, many different things. And
1:18:55also, you don't have to put I think as a
1:18:57society, particularly English people, we
1:18:59all put up with stuff. Like, there are
1:19:02solutions for all of these things, you
1:19:04know, like
1:19:05if you've got a dry vagina, go and get a
1:19:06vaginal moisturizer. Go and get a, you
1:19:08know, estrogen pessary. There are
1:19:10solutions for everything that happens
1:19:11with menopause. You don't have to sit
1:19:13there and just put up with it all
1:19:14because if you do, then you won't want
1:19:15to have sex, definitely. So, seek all
1:19:18the solutions. Don't be scared to to try
1:19:20and find solutions to all these things
1:19:22because they really are out there.
1:19:23Change your head, sir, you know. And the
1:19:25women It's interesting that they did a a
1:19:28big thing about what really influences
1:19:31women's desire post-menopause,
1:19:34and it wasn't menopause. It was your
1:19:36attitude to sex. If you'd always loved
1:19:39sex and you wanted sex to continue, you
1:19:42can you found the solutions and you kept
1:19:43on having great sex. If you were never
1:19:45that keen, it's like, "Oh, actually, you
1:19:47know what? Here we go, an obstacle. What
1:19:50a great What a great sort of excuse to
1:19:52never have sex again." So, it's attitude
1:19:55was way more important to how good the
1:19:57sex was after menopause, nothing to do
1:19:59with menopause.
1:20:01It seems again like that one of the
1:20:02foundations behind all of this that's
1:20:04kind of hiding in the back room when it
1:20:06as it relates to people's libido and
1:20:07their attitudes to sex is that kind of
1:20:09childhood experiences we talked about,
1:20:11which is super tricky to unpack and even
1:20:13become aware of. And we all have our own
1:20:15childhood experiences of sex, intimacy,
1:20:18relationships, some cases in the worst
1:20:20cases abuse, and all those things.
1:20:22terrible. That we need to find a way to
1:20:24overcome first or address first before
1:20:25we can even That's right. have a And I
1:20:28mean, particularly for men, often their
1:20:30first experience childhood experience of
1:20:32sex is being caught masturbating.
1:20:34And how the parent deals with that is
1:20:36very formative because if it's like,
1:20:39"Absolutely, what are you doing?" You
1:20:40know, like, "Do you know, it's really
1:20:41filthy, it's dirty, it's like, what are
1:20:43you doing?" Then they are going to
1:20:46continue to masturbate because pretty
1:20:48much they do, but they're going to try
1:20:50and do it faster and faster and faster.
1:20:52So, every time they're masturbating,
1:20:53they're going to be trying to get it
1:20:54down to as quick quick as possible time
1:20:56so that they don't get in trouble again.
1:20:58And then they end up with rapid
1:20:59ejaculation. They can last 2 seconds
1:21:02before they ejaculate. So, that's
1:21:03affected their sex life in a in a purely
1:21:05physical way. It sets us up in so many
1:21:07different ways, our childhood, you know.
1:21:09And I mean, I was lucky to grow up in a
1:21:11household where I don't know why our
1:21:13household was like that, but we just
1:21:14talked about sex openly. I suppose my
1:21:16sister worked for family planning, which
1:21:18helped, but that was later. So, I don't
1:21:20know, my mom and my dad were really cool
1:21:22talking about sex and things. And so, I
1:21:23grew up thinking, "Oh, yeah, all
1:21:25households are like that." But they're
1:21:26not. It's an unknown unknown. So, how do
1:21:28you go about even solving for those
1:21:29things? I guess you have to go to
1:21:30therapy and start unpacking it. Yeah, or
1:21:32just unpack it yourself. You have to
1:21:34just think about You don't necessarily
1:21:35have to go to therapy. There's so much I
1:21:36mean, the joy of the internet is there's
1:21:38so much online that you can do. If you
1:21:40typed in, you know, "I don't like sex as
1:21:42my parents you know, taught me." There's
1:21:44There's a book called Sexmart which is
1:21:45very good about childhoods. Sex?
1:21:47Sexmart, it's called. Sexmart.
1:21:49Yeah. You can still buy It's an old
1:21:51book, but it it sort of delves into all
1:21:53of this. And yeah, I mean, I think I'm
1:21:55so pro-therapy. I think everybody should
1:21:57go to therapy. No one has a perfect
1:21:59childhood. And in fact, having a perfect
1:22:00childhood can also set you up for
1:22:02things. So,
1:22:03you know, if we if we have a problem if
1:22:05you have a problem with sex, you know,
1:22:06going to see a really good sex therapist
1:22:08is could sort it out very quickly. So,
1:22:11don't leave it too late.
1:22:13God, I work out and I can't even pick
1:22:15all these books up.
1:22:17This isn't even all the books, is it?
1:22:18No.
1:22:19So, you've got relationships, how to
1:22:20have one, great sex starts at 50, Sex
1:22:24Doctor Fix Your Love Life Fast, Hot Sex,
1:22:26How How to Do It, We've Got Dare. Ooh,
1:22:30that
1:22:30That hard to see? Ooh, that looks very
1:22:31uh 50 Shades. It does a bit. More hot
1:22:34More hot sex. Okay.
1:22:37Would um Would Like to Meet Yeah, that
1:22:39was the TV show I did about dating,
1:22:41yeah. Oh, yes, okay.
1:22:42That's what I did with that.
1:22:44You There's There's a question there I
1:22:46should ask cuz I'm thinking again about
1:22:47a friend that just popped to mind.
1:22:49Is there something going on with male
1:22:52and female dating in terms of it it
1:22:55becoming more difficult in the modern
1:22:56day and age? There's some stats that one
1:22:58of my podcast guest shared about how
1:23:00women are um
1:23:03having less children and they're finding
1:23:04it more difficult to date and to find a
1:23:06compatible male in the modern way that
1:23:08society is designed. Mhm.
1:23:11And I've got friends that are
1:23:13uh you know, around that sort of
1:23:15mid-late 30s range that are really
1:23:17really really struggling in the modern
1:23:18world. It's almost I almost
1:23:19Men or women?
1:23:20or both. Right, yeah. I almost suspect
1:23:22that um
1:23:24I actually don't have that many friends
1:23:25that are in that that region that aren't
1:23:26um but it's almost like there's a
1:23:28generation almost caught in a gap where
1:23:30you're Gen Z native to social media, the
1:23:33internet, you know, that's the where
1:23:34they grew up. And then maybe the older
1:23:36generation already already partnered off
1:23:38because, you know, they met someone at
1:23:39church or And then you got
1:23:42this generation who are caught in the
1:23:43gap
1:23:44all high-achieving women? Yeah. Yeah,
1:23:45exactly. That's the problem. So, what
1:23:47happens is you get And this is why there
1:23:49are more and more single women now
1:23:51because more and more women are
1:23:52high-achieving. So, they're not like
1:23:54looking for a husband straight away.
1:23:56And when you've got a big gene pool of
1:23:57people to you know, like you When you
1:23:58come out of uni or even before you go
1:24:01into uni cuz lots of people meet at uni
1:24:02and stay together. You've got this big,
1:24:04you know, like numbers game. You've got
1:24:06loads of women single, loads of men
1:24:08single, and you sort of all hook up. And
1:24:10if your motivation is to get married and
1:24:12have kids, and that's your only
1:24:13motivation, you're going to find a
1:24:14partner early, and that's it. You job
1:24:16done, keep going, right? Assuming it all
1:24:17goes well. But if your motivation isn't
1:24:20necessarily that, if you want to go on
1:24:22to university, you know, get your career
1:24:24sorted, and then turn around and have
1:24:26kids like at 30, okay, right now,
1:24:29achieved, I'm at the past, you know,
1:24:31where I want to have kids, but and I can
1:24:32take a bit of a break here, and and then
1:24:34suddenly, where is he? Well, he's not
1:24:36there because he's already been taken up
1:24:38everybody else. And men traditionally
1:24:42don't like dating high-achieving women
1:24:45unless they're high-achieving
1:24:46themselves. And the amount of
1:24:48high-achieving women is getting higher,
1:24:50and the amount of high-achieving men is
1:24:51getting lower. So, you've got even less
1:24:53of a pool to choose from. So, the answer
1:24:55for the women is to think outside the
1:24:57square and think, "Right, okay, do I
1:24:59really need the guy who's got the
1:25:00degree?" Cuz women high-achieving women
1:25:02like to go for high-achieving men. Is
1:25:04that statistically It's just generally
1:25:06what happens, isn't it? You sort of If
1:25:08I've got a degree, I want somebody else
1:25:09who's got a degree. So, then you have to
1:25:11change your wish list a little bit and
1:25:13think, "Okay,
1:25:15I'm going to, you know, look in a I'm
1:25:17I'm not going to be as rigid with my you
1:25:20know, must-haves, and perhaps, you know,
1:25:22think about things like, "Well, does it
1:25:23really matter how much he earns if I'm
1:25:25already earning lots of money?
1:25:26You know, isn't kindness, you know,
1:25:28generosity, sense of humor,
1:25:31attractiveness, you know, just general
1:25:33chemistry, isn't that isn't that
1:25:34enough?" So, if you go for those
1:25:36qualities, you end up a lot better off.
1:25:38And you'll end up happier as well. Is
1:25:40that against our innate wiring? Because,
1:25:43you know, some people sometimes say that
1:25:45men care less about the financial
1:25:47resources of their partner. Mhm. Um So,
1:25:52does that kind of go For me, if I'm a if
1:25:54I'm a woman and I'm looking for
1:25:56uh
1:25:57a partner, am I going to look for
1:25:58someone who is kind of up into the
1:26:01right?
1:26:02Probably. But that doesn't necessarily
1:26:05work. See, for me that didn't work
1:26:07because if I'm I'm like very alpha
1:26:10female. So, whenever I went out with an
1:26:12alpha male, we were just like
1:26:14Right.
1:26:14hated each other. So, I'm the boss. No,
1:26:16I'm the boss. No, [ __ ] off now, I'm
1:26:17controlling you. No, you know. No, it
1:26:19didn't work at all. Didn't work at all.
1:26:21Very competitive. I'm too competitive.
1:26:22They were too competitive. That didn't
1:26:24work. So, so
1:26:26I've got I mean, my partner is really
1:26:29proud of me. He's not at all um
1:26:32Threatened.
1:26:32It's threatened in the slightest by any
1:26:34success any success I've had. He's my
1:26:37biggest proudest supporter. He And And
1:26:41we work differently. Like, you know, if
1:26:43if my thing is to, you know, um
1:26:46if you know, I make more money than him,
1:26:48he doesn't mind me saying that cuz he's
1:26:49he's fine with it. And so, if I've got
1:26:52more money, that's great. So, therefore,
1:26:54you know, if he's got more time than me
1:26:55to do the traditional female things,
1:26:58then he's fine with that. And then
1:26:59sometimes other times I'll do it, and
1:27:01you know, he assumes the male role. So,
1:27:04it's very um you know, we're comfortable
1:27:06with each other. We We, you know, we
1:27:07don't care care that I tick the male
1:27:10boxes in some roles, and he ticks the
1:27:12female boxes, and it works very well.
1:27:14And I think you have to I think that's
1:27:16hopefully where we're headed. But there
1:27:18is There are sometimes where I mean, I
1:27:20know I know I'm not typical with
1:27:22females. I know that a lot of women, you
1:27:25know, won't go out with a man unless he
1:27:26makes a lot of money, particularly if
1:27:27they make a lot of money. They won't.
1:27:30I've never been like that. I've never
1:27:31been get their money. It's make my If I
1:27:34want money, I'll make it myself, thanks.
1:27:35I don't want to have someone else's
1:27:36money. That's not mine.
1:27:38So, I do think
1:27:40it's a big problem for women and men. I
1:27:42think we both have to especially women
1:27:44have to stop being so rigid with that.
1:27:46You know, and how expect the man to
1:27:48provide. I think men have to stop being
1:27:50so feeling emasculated if it if it's the
1:27:52woman who's earning more. So, what? Who
1:27:54cares? As long as someone's got some
1:27:56money somewhere along the line, who
1:27:57cares which one?
1:27:59If you're in that age range between say
1:28:0030 and 40, and you're a woman, and
1:28:03you're single, and you don't want to be
1:28:05single. I think that's important to say.
1:28:06You don't want to be single. You want to
1:28:07have a you know, you want to meet a
1:28:09partner. You want to have a family,
1:28:10whatever it might be.
1:28:12What advice would you give to that
1:28:13person? I'm thinking now about my a
1:28:15series of my close um
1:28:17friends that are women that are single
1:28:18in that range and that have expressed
1:28:20that they they don't want to be single.
1:28:23Um but they're struggling for all the
1:28:24reasons you said, super high-achieving,
1:28:26um you know, they're they've got great
1:28:29careers. They're very very busy because
1:28:31of that as well. They've you know, Yeah,
1:28:32that was the issue, isn't it?
1:28:34It's um
1:28:35I mean, I was talking about Helen Gurley
1:28:37Brown, the Cosmo founder, and she always
1:28:39said, "You can have it all."
1:28:41And that's the biggest lie women have
1:28:42been sold. You can't have it all. There
1:28:44is something that gives. And And these
1:28:45high-achievers, yeah, they have
1:28:48compromised their chances of finding a
1:28:50partner by putting all into their
1:28:51career. You can't have it all. And I did
1:28:53that. I mean, it took me to 50. I had
1:28:55lots of relationships. It took me to 50
1:28:57to find somebody that was I was
1:29:00compatible with. It's not easy. It's
1:29:02really really difficult. And I was out
1:29:03there meeting tons of people. So, first
1:29:06accept that it's nothing to do with you.
1:29:08Doesn't mean that you're not attractive
1:29:09or anything. You're probably less
1:29:11marketable because you're too
1:29:12intelligent, and some men will be
1:29:14freaked by that. And you're too
1:29:15successful, and some men will be freaked
1:29:17by that. They don't know what to do with
1:29:18you and they it makes them feel bad
1:29:20because they're going to those
1:29:21traditional patterns like how she's not
1:29:23going to go out with me. You know, I'm
1:29:25not as successful as her so I'm not even
1:29:26going to try.
1:29:27So you have to make the approach number
1:29:29one.
1:29:30Um change your wish list to become
1:29:33qualities, personality qualities, not
1:29:35you know, must be a certain height, must
1:29:37be a certain income, must drive this
1:29:38car, must you know, all those sort of
1:29:39things cuz they really don't matter.
1:29:42And um and also date outside of type.
1:29:45Like go out with people. Look beyond the
1:29:47exterior. See what's inside. Like
1:29:50I think they'll be very quick to go,
1:29:52"Oh, I know. I can't go out with that
1:29:53person." You know, like go on a couple
1:29:55of dates. Even if the first date's a
1:29:56disaster.
1:29:57Go on two or three dates. Go on at least
1:29:59three with people. You know,
1:30:02go out all the time. Often these women
1:30:04are so busy. It's like, "Well, when do
1:30:06you when do you actually go out to
1:30:07actually put yourself in a situation
1:30:08where you can meet someone?"
1:30:10Never.
1:30:11They're not going to walk in your lounge
1:30:12room, are they? Unless you sort of order
1:30:14delivery.
1:30:15They're really not. So come on. You've
1:30:18got to make some effort here. You've got
1:30:19to do the numbers game and I don't know
1:30:21whether that dating apps are the right
1:30:22way forward, but they're probably the
1:30:23only way it's the way that most people
1:30:25meet. So you kind of have to just suck
1:30:27it up and get on there.
1:30:28I think.
1:30:29I think that's phenomenal advice. I was
1:30:31really really happy you said that as
1:30:32well because you know, I know
1:30:34certain friends of mine are going to be
1:30:35listening. Um They'll hate me for it.
1:30:37No, I don't think so. I think it's an
1:30:39it's it's an opinion. It's one that
1:30:40makes um sense and I think that's all
1:30:43that anyone can deliver on this podcast
1:30:45and that's that's why I like it. It's
1:30:47and it's actually matches the opinion I
1:30:49had from a man previously on this
1:30:51podcast who received quite a
1:30:53um when a man says those kinds of
1:30:55things, I don't think it's received as
1:30:56well necessarily because they're
1:30:57speaking from a place of like they don't
1:30:59have the lived experience and there's a
1:31:00lot of like gender inequality things
1:31:02that are you know, historical things
1:31:04with men and
1:31:05um the term one of my previous guest
1:31:07used to describe it was um tall girl
1:31:11problem.
1:31:12The You see what I mean? It's not a good
1:31:14It's not necessarily the most um
1:31:17You could also say Yeah, you could say
1:31:19small man problem. Yeah, exactly.
1:31:21It's the same thing, you know. This is
1:31:22an interesting question. It's probably
1:31:23the question I should have started with.
1:31:25What is sex?
1:31:26Well, sex certainly isn't intercourse.
1:31:28And people need to stop thinking of sex
1:31:29as intercourse.
1:31:31Sex is any type of
1:31:33any type of
1:31:35feeling, word, thought that makes you
1:31:38feel aroused. That's how I describe sex.
1:31:41And what what purpose is it solving? Why
1:31:42does it exist? To create other human
1:31:45beings. This is why, you know, our going
1:31:47right back to the beginning, this whole
1:31:49thing that we have that, you know, why
1:31:51can't we have the sex at the beginning
1:31:52all the way through? Because it doesn't
1:31:54suit. It wouldn't work. If you were have
1:31:56so in, you know, lust-driven and all you
1:31:58wanted to do was shag like rabbits, you
1:32:00would never get anything else done. You
1:32:01certainly wouldn't have children. You
1:32:02certainly wouldn't have a job. So we are
1:32:05designed to keep the world in a safe
1:32:07place. We go through lust and
1:32:09infatuation, romance, attachment for a
1:32:11reason. So that we calm down. We don't
1:32:14have the hot sex and we keep the world,
1:32:16you know, we bring up our children in a
1:32:18sensible way and the world continues.
1:32:20What does that say about monogamy
1:32:22though? Because if That's probably not
1:32:23natural.
1:32:25That's what I was going to say. Because
1:32:27if my sex drive is deteriorating to any
1:32:30degree, one would suggest that's
1:32:31encouraging me to go
1:32:33shag someone else. Well, it is, but you
1:32:35don't because you love your partner. So
1:32:36you It's a trade-off. It's always a
1:32:38trade-off. You can have the love and the
1:32:40contentment and the companionship. And
1:32:43this is why older, you know, you asked
1:32:44about um infidelity statistics. Older
1:32:47people don't cheat very much who are in
1:32:50good relationships because they're not
1:32:52having that drive. That that lust is
1:32:54gone. You know, your your sex drive is
1:32:56lower as you get older.
1:32:58And it's the trade-off. It's like,
1:32:59"Yeah, I could go out and cheat and have
1:33:01really hot sex, but I'm going to have to
1:33:03look my partner in the eye and I really
1:33:05love my partner. So I'm going to I'm
1:33:06happy to wave goodbye to that hot sex.
1:33:08I've had enough of it in my life." So it
1:33:09depends on your motivation. So if you
1:33:11are driven by sex, then just don't
1:33:13settle down. Keep swapping partners and
1:33:15get that out of your system and then
1:33:16you're not going to be dishonest to
1:33:17anyone. But if you do want a
1:33:19relationship, sometimes you have to go,
1:33:21"Okay, we can have great sex. It's not
1:33:23going to be
1:33:25like the sex that you have at the
1:33:26beginning, but you know what? I've got
1:33:27two kids. I've got a great wife. I've
1:33:29got, you know, it's a trade-off in life,
1:33:31isn't it? Everything's a trade-off. So
1:33:33you don't think monogamy is um natural?
1:33:36I think that for sex, no.
1:33:39I think for sex, no. It's absolutely
1:33:40not. For our sex drive, it's the worst
1:33:42thing is to give someone security and,
1:33:44you know, predictability and stuff and
1:33:46the same person over and over. No. Not
1:33:48for our sex drive.
1:33:49But the problem is is that the
1:33:51alternative is polyamory, right? So you
1:33:53have this one love relationship and then
1:33:55you seek sex elsewhere. Now in theory,
1:33:58that really appeals to me. I can see
1:34:00that that would be great, right? But I'm
1:34:02never going to I'm not going to feel
1:34:03comfortable waving off my husband. Bye,
1:34:05darling. You have a great time. You
1:34:06know, don't worry about what time you
1:34:07get back. No way. I He's my You know,
1:34:10it's possession, isn't it? It's
1:34:12ownership. It's sexual ownership. You
1:34:14know, I You're not going to You might
1:34:16want to do it yourself, but you're not
1:34:17going to send your partner off and they
1:34:18might want to do it themselves, but
1:34:19they're not going to send you off. So I
1:34:21don't know what the solution is. I
1:34:22really don't.
1:34:23Well, as you said, in life you can't
1:34:24have it all. So everything is
1:34:25trade-offs.
1:34:27And that's another trade-off where I'm
1:34:28sure some people would love to be able
1:34:30to have sex with other people, but they
1:34:31wouldn't be able they wouldn't want to
1:34:32reciprocate that.
1:34:33Exactly. To their partner.
1:34:35We have a closing tradition on this
1:34:36podcast where the last guest leaves a
1:34:38question for the next guest not knowing
1:34:39who they're leaving it for.
1:34:41And the question that's been left for
1:34:42you, okay.
1:34:45When you are near the end of your life
1:34:49and looking back over it,
1:34:51what will you be proudest of
1:34:54and what will you regret the most? Gosh.
1:34:58Um
1:35:00proudest of my career and having helped
1:35:03people.
1:35:04I'm one of the really annoying people
1:35:06when you're in a in dinner party who's
1:35:08just knew what they wanted to do really
1:35:09early on with the writing and then that
1:35:11happened very early with my parents. Um
1:35:13so I'm really proud of that. My first
1:35:16book, I was so excited. I literally You
1:35:18know that when you just jump on the
1:35:19spot? I was literally jumping on the
1:35:20spot. I don't really do regrets
1:35:22actually. I don't really do regrets.
1:35:24Maybe I wish that I was more or had been
1:35:27more confident. I'm confident on the
1:35:29outside, but not on the inside. I'm the
1:35:31most confident unconfident person you'll
1:35:33ever meet. So and probably realized that
1:35:37no one's looking at you. They're too
1:35:39busy worrying about themselves. I wish
1:35:40I'd sort of calmed down a bit and was
1:35:43more confident. What's the symptoms of
1:35:45that inner lack of confidence?
1:35:47Um
1:35:49insecurity.
1:35:51Like going away and like every, you
1:35:53know, the first time I listen to this
1:35:55for instance, it'll be like, "Oh my god,
1:35:56I was terrible. Look at me. Look at the
1:35:58way I look. Look at Oh my god, why
1:36:00didn't I do something else with my
1:36:01hands? What you know, like I'll go
1:36:02through it." Then then I'll go, "Don't
1:36:03be silly." And then I'll listen to it
1:36:05and then I'll have an okay opinion about
1:36:07it, but yeah, there's still that little
1:36:09bit there. Any idea where that's come
1:36:11from? Yeah, parents.
1:36:12When you're left on your own and feel
1:36:14abandoned at the age of 15, it's not
1:36:15great, is it?
1:36:17And then all these small things are
1:36:20a potential abandonment. Uh maybe people
1:36:23don't think I don't get on with me.
1:36:24Maybe they don't.
1:36:24Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:36:25Yeah.
1:36:26Yeah. It's funny. I'm confident of
1:36:28I'm confident of my abilities um
1:36:31professionally.
1:36:33I'm confident that I'm intelligent. Um I
1:36:36don't know. I suppose Yeah, you never
1:36:37really I mean, I remember when I studied
1:36:39psychology and the and the guy just got
1:36:40up there and said, he was a great
1:36:42lecturer and he said it's all about your
1:36:43childhood. And we all just rolled our
1:36:45eyes and went, "Oh, for god's sake. It's
1:36:47so like How ridiculous. It's not. It's
1:36:49not." And it is. It really is. Like I'm
1:36:52still that 15-year-old girl that stood
1:36:54there terrified. You know, this she's
1:36:56still there.
1:36:58And um yeah, so it's interesting. But I
1:37:01put on a good show.
1:37:02Like everybody.
1:37:05You certainly do put on a good show.
1:37:07Thank you so much, Tracey. Um
1:37:09You've given me so much answered so many
1:37:10of my questions and I I know for for
1:37:12sure for sure people are going to tell
1:37:13you. I'm sure they're going to message
1:37:14you, but for sure for sure I can say on
1:37:16behalf of all of the people that have
1:37:17listened, you've helped them Oh, I hope
1:37:19so.
1:37:20Thank you.
1:37:20And I think everybody will take away
1:37:22something different from that, which is
1:37:23so incredible.
1:37:24I'm going to do something I've never
1:37:25done before because I really want to
1:37:26illustrate how I believe you've helped
1:37:28people. The previous guest that left you
1:37:30a question
1:37:32and you know, I don't usually tell
1:37:33people this, is a guy called Robert
1:37:34Waldinger and what he has committed his
1:37:37life to is something called the Harvard
1:37:42Study of Well-being. I'm going to call
1:37:44it that. I know I've got one one word
1:37:45they're wrong. Right? Going to call it
1:37:46the Harvard Study of Well-being, which
1:37:48is the longest ever study done on a
1:37:50group of people to understand what makes
1:37:52people fundamentally happy happy at the
1:37:55most basic level. So they followed
1:37:56people for almost 90 years, the same
1:37:57group of people. Even, you know, the
1:37:59founders of the study have actually
1:38:00died. So they've passed the study on to
1:38:02Robert. And at the very heart of what
1:38:03they found on the study, which ended up
1:38:05being a TED Talk, which has done 45
1:38:06million views. It's the most one of the
1:38:08most listened TED TED Talks of all time,
1:38:10is that the thing that makes us most
1:38:12happy in life
1:38:13and also healthiest in terms of an
1:38:14insulation from stress is relationships.
1:38:18It's number one. Men that have positive
1:38:20romantic relationships um
1:38:22live 14 years longer. Women 7 years
1:38:24longer. That's right.
1:38:26And one of the things that ends ends
1:38:27great relationships and leads us to
1:38:29isolation and loneliness is
1:38:31sexual issues. Mhm. I see it in all of
1:38:33my friends. And the work you're doing is
1:38:35therefore um
1:38:37in its very essence helping people to to
1:38:39solve the most important problem of all,
1:38:41which is connection, relationships. So
1:38:43it's incredible work to be doing and
1:38:45it's work that not a lot of people will
1:38:46want to do and confront because of the
1:38:47stigmas and taboos that still remain. So
1:38:50thank you so much, Tracey. Thank you.
1:38:52Thank you for being so wonderful.
1:38:53compliment.
1:38:54You're captivating.
1:38:55No, you really are. You're really really
1:38:56captivating and you're super smart and
1:38:58you know your stuff and you've looked at
1:38:59all the research. Um you really are the
1:39:01the best at this. So thank you for being
1:39:02here. Thank you for helping me. You
1:39:03have. Um and thank you for helping all
1:39:05of our wonderful listeners. Thank you.
1:39:07I'm going to walk away very confident
1:39:08now. Thank you.
1:39:08Awesome. And you look amazing, by the
1:39:09way. Your dress is fantastic. Everything
1:39:11about you is fantastic. So, yeah. Thank
1:39:13you.
1:39:16You know, I never really usually pick
1:39:18the chocolate flavored Huel's. My
1:39:20favorite are the banana flavor, I love
1:39:22the salted caramel flavor, but recently,
1:39:25I think I in part blame Jack in my team,
1:39:28who's obsessed with the chocolate flavor
1:39:30Huel's, I've started drinking the
1:39:31chocolate flavor Huel's for the first
1:39:32time, and I absolutely love them. My
1:39:34life means that I sometimes disregard my
1:39:37diet, and it's funny, that's part of the
1:39:38reason why I've had a lot of guests on
1:39:40this podcast recently that talk about
1:39:41diet and health and and those kinds of
1:39:42things. Because I am trying to make an
1:39:44active effort to be more healthy, to
1:39:46lose a little bit of weight as well, but
1:39:47to be more healthy. And the role that
1:39:49Huel plays in my life is it means that
1:39:51in those moments where sometimes I might
1:39:53reach for,
1:39:55you know,
1:39:56junk foods,
1:39:58having an option that is nutritionally
1:39:59complete, that is high in fiber, that is
1:40:01incredibly high in protein, that has all
1:40:03the vitamins and minerals that my body
1:40:04needs, within arms reach, that I can
1:40:06consume on the go, is where Huel has
1:40:08been a game-changer for me. You got to
1:40:10the end of this podcast. Whenever
1:40:11someone gets to the end of this podcast,
1:40:12I feel like I owe them a greater debt of
1:40:14gratitude, because that means you
1:40:15listened to the whole thing. And
1:40:17hopefully that suggests that you enjoyed
1:40:18it. If you are at the end, and you
1:40:20enjoyed this podcast, could you do me a
1:40:22little bit of a favor and hit that
1:40:24subscribe button? That's one of the
1:40:26clearest indicators we have that this
1:40:27episode was a good episode, and we look
1:40:29at that on all of the episodes to see
1:40:30which episodes generated the most
1:40:32subscribers.
1:40:33Thank you so much, and I'll see you
1:40:34again next time.

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