The Interrogation of Stephanie Lazarus — Transcript

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1. 0:00The detectives created a ruse, inviting
2. 0:02Stephanie to come in and advise them on
3. 0:04a case involving stolen art. Knowing
4. 0:06they were dealing with one of their own,
5. 0:08they rehearsed and prepared for the
6. 0:09interview more than anything they had
7. 0:11done before. Their plan of attack was to
8. 0:13keep the conversation as casual as
9. 0:15possible for as long as possible and
10. 0:17carefully waited for the key moments to
11. 0:19initiate the confrontation.
12. 0:20Stephanie, I don't know if you know my
13. 0:21partner. Hey, great. Hi, sir. Nice to
14. 0:23meet you. Nice to see you guys. How's it
15. 0:24going? Milling around. Uh, well, have a
16. 0:28seat.
17. 0:30I don't want to talk about this in the
18. 0:31squadron because I don't know who people
19. 0:32are listening. And if we go to my side,
20. 0:35everybody's always wondering what
21. 0:36everybody else is doing. No problem.
22. 0:37Okay.
23. 0:38The first thing the detectives do is set
24. 0:39up a compatible tone with a suspect. She
25. 0:42has just stepped foot inside an
26. 0:43interrogation room, and the detectives
27. 0:45negate the negative implications of such
28. 0:47an environment through a friendly
29. 0:48disposition. Consultative meetings, such
30. 0:51as seeking advice over an art theft, can
31. 0:53take place anywhere, and the last place
32. 0:55detectives would choose to spend more
33. 0:57time in would be an interrogation room.
34. 0:59The reason they give the suspect for
35. 1:00meeting in such an unusual location is
36. 1:03to not spread rumors or innuendo. Yet,
37. 1:05the real reason is that all firearms
38. 1:07have to be checked in before entering
39. 1:09the area, and they needed the suspect to
40. 1:11give up her gun without alerting
41. 1:12suspicion.
42. 1:14But, uh, like we're talking about being
43. 1:16busy and stuff, we've been assigned a
44. 1:17case that we've been looking at. Okay,
45. 1:19it's a new case and revealing the case.
46. 1:21There's some notes uh to see as far as
47. 1:24your name being mentioned. Okay.
48. 1:26Do you know John Ruten?
49. 1:27Try and imagine for one moment that you
50. 1:29savagely murdered a love rival in a
51. 1:31jealous rage. Over two decades had
52. 1:33passed since the act. Then all of a
53. 1:35sudden, you're brought to an
54. 1:36interrogation room and sat directly
55. 1:38opposite two senior investigators who
56. 1:40bring up the name of the man you
57. 1:42committed first-degree homicide for.
58. 1:44John Brutin.
59. 1:47John Rutton.
60. 1:48Rutton.
61. 1:49The investigators already knew how to
62. 1:51say John Rutton's name correctly. The
63. 1:53mispronunciation was a simple strategy
64. 1:55to see how the suspect would react.
65. 1:57Setting aside the element of the murder,
66. 1:59John Rutton was the second longest
67. 2:01relationship in Stephanie's life. And a
68. 2:03psychiatrist later stated that this
69. 2:04pause was four times as long as it
70. 2:06should have been. She was already being
71. 2:08deceptive by acting as if she hadn't
72. 2:10thought about that name for so long,
73. 2:12giving reason for her prolonged
74. 2:13reflection, when in reality, the name
75. 2:15John Rutton was engraved in her memory.
76. 2:17And even when slightly mispronounced, it
77. 2:19would have most likely taken
78. 2:20milliseconds for her to realize exactly
79. 2:22who the detectives were referring to.
80. 2:25Oh, yeah. I went to school with him.
81. 2:26You did?
82. 2:26Yeah.
83. 2:27How long did you know him?
84. 2:28Gosh, I went to school in um let's see,
85. 2:31went to UCLA 1978.
86. 2:34They started and um you know met him at
87. 2:39school at the dorms.
88. 2:40Mhm.
89. 2:41Um
90. 2:42she says she met him in the dorms yet
91. 2:44left out the fact that they had dated
92. 2:46for 4 years and went on numerous
93. 2:48holidays together even though she wasn't
94. 2:50asked directly. A truthful subject would
95. 2:52most often volunteer this information
96. 2:54without having to be pressed for it.
97. 2:56Were you guys friends? Close friends?
98. 2:58Yeah, we're very close friends. I mean I
99. 3:00mean what's this all about?
100. 3:01Well, it's regarding it's a case we're
101. 3:03working on. And it involves John and in
102. 3:05there some of the statements we we
103. 3:07reviewed uh you know there's notes and
104. 3:09stuff that that he knew you and stuff.
105. 3:10Oh yeah. I mean we good friends um lived
106. 3:14in the dorms for I lived in the dorms
107. 3:16for 2 years. Um
108. 3:18you guys lived in the same dorms?
109. 3:19Yeah.
110. 3:20Oh okay.
111. 3:20Yeah. Dyra.
112. 3:21Okay. Were you guys just friends or
113. 3:23anything else or?
114. 3:24Yeah we were we were good friends.
115. 3:27Yeah. Was there any relationship or
116. 3:29anything that developed between you
117. 3:30guys?
118. 3:31Yeah. I mean we dated.
119. 3:33Uh-huh.
120. 3:33You know, um I mean is what's this all
121. 3:36about?
122. 3:37Well, it's relating to uh his wife.
123. 3:41It's unfortunate that Stephanie's face
124. 3:42wasn't captured at this moment because
125. 3:44she would have no doubt been immediately
126. 3:46struck by the psychological reaction
127. 3:48known as fight or flight. Her brain
128. 3:50would have just triggered the influx of
129. 3:51a specific cocktail of hormones in order
130. 3:54to prepare her to either stay and deal
131. 3:56with a threat or try and run away to
132. 3:58safety. Stephanie chooses to fight.
133. 4:01Okay. Okay. Did you know her?
134. 4:04Not really. I mean, I knew that he got
135. 4:05married years ago.
136. 4:07Uh-huh. Did you ever meet her?
137. 4:09God, I don't know. Um,
138. 4:11do you know who she was or anything?
139. 4:13Well, I Let me think. God, it's been a
140. 4:16long time ago. Um
141. 4:19Um,
142. 4:20you know, I may have met her. Um, jeez.
143. 4:24The words gosh, God, G are exclamatory
144. 4:28remarks used to express surprise or
145. 4:30strong emotion. You will see them used
146. 4:32continuously throughout this
147. 4:33interrogation, which is the suspect
148. 4:35trying to insinuate a vague memory due
149. 4:38to a lack of contemplation on the
150. 4:39subject matter. She's trying to emit the
151. 4:41impression that she would have had no
152. 4:43reason to give any further thought to
153. 4:44Jon or anything related to Jon since
154. 4:47they stopped seeing each other over two
155. 4:48decades ago.
156. 4:50No.
157. 4:51Yeah. Uh well, let me see. Let me ask
158. 4:53you. You said you you dated John. How
159. 4:55long did you guys date?
160. 4:58I mean, what are you guys is this
161. 5:01something?
162. 5:01As we know, Stephanie is a cop and has
163. 5:04been for 25 years. She will be wise to
164. 5:06the fact that acting oblivious to the
165. 5:08unusual development of the situation
166. 5:10will be a glaring red flag in the eyes
167. 5:12of the investigators. It's been shown
168. 5:13time and again on this channel. Guilty
169. 5:15suspects will often try and act naive to
170. 5:18a blatant confrontation as a means to
171. 5:20avoiding it altogether. Whereas truthful
172. 5:22subjects will address the confrontation
173. 5:24and either refute it or if it's subtle
174. 5:26want immediate clarification and
175. 5:28transparency as to what was being
176. 5:30insinuated. I mean, you said that I was
177. 5:32going to interview somebody about art
178. 5:33and how you guys are.
179. 5:34Here's I mean,
180. 5:36Stephanie, here's the situation is
181. 5:37basically we, you know, we knew that
182. 5:40this when we saw this in the in in this
183. 5:43chrono that maybe, you know, there was
184. 5:44some relationship there. That's what the
185. 5:45chronos seem to indicate.
186. 5:46The detective now subtly avoids the
187. 5:48question altogether, but instead offers
188. 5:50a deceptively reassuring response to the
189. 5:52suspect. He makes a very sharp switch
190. 5:54from the investigative subject matter to
191. 5:56the previous topic of workplace rumors.
192. 5:58He brings her focus back to the false
193. 6:00perception of them being on her side.
194. 6:02Stephanie had just asked what was going
195. 6:04on. And now he essentially replies with,
196. 6:07"We are your friends. We're doing you a
197. 6:09favor."
198. 6:09And we didn't want to come up to you at
199. 6:12your desk and ask those kinds of
200. 6:13questions or do anything. You know how
201. 6:15up there people can see what's going on
202. 6:16if you go into an interview room or
203. 6:18people are in there getting supplies. So
204. 6:20we wanted to privac
205. 6:31someone, you know, we don't want the
206. 6:32rumor mill or gossip or any of that kind
207. 6:33of stuff.
208. 6:34That's fine. I mean,
209. 6:35so we we did this just as as a means to
210. 6:37try and speak to you in just a
211. 6:38confidential place where you, you know,
212. 6:40where where your business isn't out
213. 6:42there for other people, you know, your
214. 6:43division to know about. Whether it be
215. 6:45shock or the total reluctance to accept
216. 6:47the situation at hand, Stephanie wearily
217. 6:49accepts the reassuring response without
218. 6:52further inquiry into her initial
219. 6:53challenge. She instead falls back into
220. 6:55her agenda of having a foggy memory with
221. 6:58regard to the incriminating contents.
222. 7:00You know, God, that's been a million
223. 7:01years ago. I mean, you know, um
224. 7:06what year is it now? 2009. I mean, I
225. 7:08graduated in ' 82. 82. Yeah. Um,
226. 7:13you know, we dated. Um, I dated other
227. 7:16guys. I'm sure he dated other girls. Um,
228. 7:20well, let me ask you roughly how long
229. 7:22would you would you say you guys dated?
230. 7:24Oh, jeez. Um,
231. 7:27I couldn't even say. I mean,
232. 7:29notice how she now goes on to overexlain
233. 7:32things that don't require an explanation
234. 7:34and weren't even inquired about. It's a
235. 7:36clear-cut indication of hyperarousal and
236. 7:38a derivative of TMT, also known as
237. 7:41terror management theory. The suspect
238. 7:43will go off on unrelated tangents as
239. 7:45means for gaining momentary relief.
240. 7:47Going into detail about trivial things
241. 7:49affords her a brief escape from the
242. 7:51terrifying reality eventuating before
243. 7:53her. This is a very common occurrence in
244. 7:55interrogations where the suspect is
245. 7:57facing serious charges and psychiatrists
246. 8:00believe it to be a subconscious coping
247. 8:01mechanism.
248. 8:02I started school there in 78. Mhm.
249. 8:05I started UCLA set in 1978.
250. 8:07I graduated in ' 82. Um I don't even
251. 8:11remember what year he graduated if it
252. 8:13was a year or two before me.
253. 8:15Okay.
254. 8:16Um I think he was a little bit older
255. 8:17than I was.
256. 8:18I mean, you know, I can't remember if he
257. 8:20was born, let's say, I'm born in 60,
258. 8:221960. I don't know if he was born in 58
259. 8:25or 59. I mean, you know, um I mean, I
260. 8:27knew his parents. I knew his sister. His
261. 8:29brother went to Northridge. Um
262. 8:33um you know, sister spent the night at
263. 8:35my house before. Obviously, I spent the
264. 8:38night at his house before. He probably
265. 8:39spent the night at my house before. Um
266. 8:42you know, I've you know, I don't
267. 8:45Well, correct me if I'm wrong, cuz from
268. 8:47what you're telling me is you guys dated
269. 8:49while you were in college together,
270. 8:50right?
271. 8:51Yeah. And probably after college. Um I'm
272. 8:54I can't jeez. Um trying to think when I
273. 8:57met my husband. And I met my husband in
274. 9:00when did I meet Scott? Um,
275. 9:03let's see. I was teaching DARE cuz I met
276. 9:06Scott when I was teaching DARE up in
277. 9:08Oregon. But we had long stopped, you
278. 9:11know, dating before that.
279. 9:13So, you haven't talked to him for a long
280. 9:15time.
281. 9:15Oh, I I think I haven't talked to him in
282. 9:17a long time. Um, I couldn't even tell
283. 9:19you when the last time I talked to him.
284. 9:21Um, I met Scott I'm thinking in ' 92,
285. 9:25maybe. Um, April of 92. It was
286. 9:29Scott being your husband.
287. 9:30Yeah. I'm trying to think. I was
288. 9:31teaching Dare. Let's see what year is
289. 9:34this. This is We'll be married. I got
290. 9:37married in 1996. I think I met Scott in
291. 9:39'92. Prior to that, I couldn't tell you
292. 9:42how long I had talked, you know, talked
293. 9:44to John prior to that.
294. 9:46But since you since you met your
295. 9:48husband, Scott, you hadn't talked to
296. 9:49him? I mean, he may have called me uh
297. 9:53once or twice before we got married,
298. 9:56right?
299. 9:56Um, you know, gez, I I lived I moved to
300. 10:00see me
301. 10:01in 1994 because I lost my house in the
302. 10:04earthquake.
303. 10:04Oh.
304. 10:05Um, uh, quite honestly, I probably keep
305. 10:08in contact with a few people from the
306. 10:11dorms. We we all we all lived on the
307. 10:1310th floor. Um, and um,
308. 10:18there's
309. 10:22about three or four people I keep in
310. 10:24contact with. There's probably like six
311. 10:25or eight of us that were all really
312. 10:27close.
313. 10:27Mhm. And who are those people?
314. 10:29Oh jeez. Um, Diana Basta,
315. 10:33um, people I still keep I I haven't been
316. 10:36in contact with her in a long time.
317. 10:39Um, I mean, what, you know, what's
318. 10:42what's I mean, what's this all about?
319. 10:43What I mean?
320. 10:44Well, let me ask you that.
321. 10:45The suspect challenges the detectives
322. 10:47for the second time and once again the
323. 10:50question is avoided, but this time in a
324. 10:52more confrontational manner as the topic
325. 10:54is maintained with no reassurance
326. 10:56afforded. The detectives are ramping up
327. 10:57the pressure in a very subtle yet highly
328. 11:00effective manner.
329. 11:00What ended the relationship between you
330. 11:02and John?
331. 11:04You know, I don't It was kind of a weird
332. 11:07relationship. I mean, we we we dated. Um
333. 11:10I can't say that he was my boyfriend.
334. 11:12And I don't know that he would have
335. 11:13considered me his girlfriend. Um, we
336. 11:16just we dated, we did things. I played
337. 11:18sports in college. He played basketball.
338. 11:20His brother played basketball. Um,
339. 11:24we just, you know, it just
340. 11:27didn't work out. I mean, I don't know
341. 11:29what to tell you. It was like I went out
342. 11:31with other guys. Um, saw other guys. I
343. 11:34went on lots of vacations. Um, you know,
344. 11:37and and once you guys split, were you
345. 11:39guys still friends or kind of uh you
346. 11:42know, problems. Is it
347. 11:44friendly? Not friendly?
348. 11:46No, I don't think it was not friendly. I
349. 11:48mean, we were friendly. Um, uh, I know
350. 11:50that
351. 11:51we went to Hawaii,
352. 11:53um, at one point. Yeah. I mean, I, you
353. 11:57know,
354. 11:58and you were saying that, um,
355. 12:00it's 2009 now.
356. 12:01Had you ever met his wife?
357. 12:04I may have.
358. 12:05Do you know, do you remember her name or
359. 12:07anything or
360. 12:09um
361. 12:12um
362. 12:14or what she did for a living or where
363. 12:16she worked or anything about her.
364. 12:19The suspect was just asked three
365. 12:20consecutive questions relating to the
366. 12:22victim. She was supposedly in a
367. 12:24reflective state during all three of the
368. 12:26questions, yet her facial expression
369. 12:28completely changed for the third one.
370. 12:29This is because she was pretending to be
371. 12:31in a state of reflection for the first
372. 12:33two questions as she already knew the
373. 12:35answers. Whereas for the third question,
374. 12:37she actually was in a state of
375. 12:38reflection and was genuinely searching
376. 12:40her memory for the correct response.
377. 12:43Had you ever met his wife?
378. 12:45I may have. Do you know do you remember
379. 12:47her name or anything or
380. 12:50um
381. 12:53um
382. 12:55the third question is about to be posed
383. 12:57and her focus is about to switch from
384. 12:59pretending to be thinking to actually
385. 13:01thinking
386. 13:01for what she did for a living or where
387. 13:03she worked or anything about her.
388. 13:06Well, I think she I I'm going to say I
389. 13:08think she was a nurse. Um
390. 13:12man, I can't even remember how he he
391. 13:13said he met her. Uh, yeah. I mean, I I
392. 13:16Yeah, I mean, it's been so long ago.
393. 13:18Well, let me ask you, did you go to
394. 13:19their wedding? You know,
395. 13:21no, I didn't go to their wedding. Um,
396. 13:23no, I don't did not go to their wedding.
397. 13:26Um, couldn't even tell you what year we
398. 13:28got married. I mean, you know, it's it's
399. 13:30been a million years ago. You know,
400. 13:32again, I I mean, what you know, I don't
401. 13:35understand why you're talking about some
402. 13:37guy I dated a million years ago.
403. 13:38Well, do you know what happened to his
404. 13:40wife?
405. 13:40Yeah, I know she got killed. You
406. 13:42wouldn't need to be an expert in body
407. 13:44language to recognize the unmititigated
408. 13:46terror emanating from the suspect's face
409. 13:48at this moment. She had just verbalized
410. 13:50the victim's tragic demise for the first
411. 13:52time in most likely over two decades.
412. 13:55What did you What did you hear about
413. 13:56that?
414. 13:57I I saw a poster at work. Um I'm sure I
415. 14:01spoke to him about it. Um I think I
416. 14:04spoke to another friend of his about it.
417. 14:07Um
418. 14:08and how did how did you first learn
419. 14:09about that?
420. 14:11Jeez.
421. 14:13Someone could have called me. I could
422. 14:15have heard it at work. Um
423. 14:18I think at one point there may have been
424. 14:19a flyer or something. I know a good
425. 14:21friend of his. Um
426. 14:22Were you on the job back then when that
427. 14:24happened?
428. 14:25Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I'm sure I was
429. 14:27on the job. That's who I would have
430. 14:28heard about it with the flyer. Um he had
431. 14:31a good friend Mike
432. 14:33Baldrick. Mike.
433. 14:37Um
434. 14:39um you know,
435. 14:40but being that you were kind of you used
436. 14:42to see uh John, you know, was it
437. 14:46everything okay between you guys? I
438. 14:47mean, there was never anything
439. 14:48uncomfortable or anything between you
440. 14:50and her.
441. 14:51Um
442. 14:53eight separate witnesses testified that
443. 14:55Stephanie had confronted Sherry at the
444. 14:57hospital she worked at, while the two of
445. 14:58them were reportedly in an intimate
446. 15:00relationship with Jon. The confrontation
447. 15:02was said to have been highly aggressive
448. 15:04and Stephanie had to be escorted off the
449. 15:06premises by security. Reports stated
450. 15:08that Stephanie was by far the more
451. 15:10combative and even made threats against
452. 15:12Sherry's life. You know, I don't know. I
453. 15:15mean, it's God, it's been so many years.
454. 15:16I mean,
455. 15:18uncomfortable. I mean,
456. 15:22I can't even I can't even remember if we
457. 15:24had a conversation. I mean, we may have
458. 15:26I may have I may have seen her at his
459. 15:29apartment, you know.
460. 15:31Jeez, how many years ago is that? I
461. 15:33don't even know what year she, you know,
462. 15:34got killed.
463. 15:35Where was his apartment?
464. 15:36Notice her passive disposition as she
465. 15:38gives the following truthful response
466. 15:41on Rosco.
467. 15:42Okay.
468. 15:42Yeah, Rosco and um um
469. 15:47east or west of Dot. Uh either east or
470. 15:50west of Dodto. Do you know where he
471. 15:52moved after did he move after he got
472. 15:54married? Or do you know or
473. 15:55Now notice how her disposition switches
474. 15:57from passive to frantic as she once
475. 15:59again pretends to have a vague memory.
476. 16:06I'm sure he did.
477. 16:07Did you know where he was living or
478. 16:10somewhere in the valley?
479. 16:12Did you ever visit him and his wife?
480. 16:15No.
481. 16:15No. Never went out, you know, get
482. 16:17together, dinners,
483. 16:19anything of that nature?
484. 16:20No. No. Like I said, his sister used to
485. 16:23come over. His sister had had come to my
486. 16:26place. I knew his I knew his brother
487. 16:28because his brother played basketball at
488. 16:29Northridge. Um in fact, I was just
489. 16:31coming across some pictures that I just
490. 16:33scan
491. 16:35uh scanned from um I take a lot of
492. 16:38photos.
493. 16:39Um like 10,000. And I just did a service
494. 16:43where I scanned everything.
495. 16:47And uh after his wife died, did did you
496. 16:51talk to him again or or anything?
497. 16:53Yeah, I mean I did talk to him.
498. 16:55Mhm.
499. 16:55I talked to him, probably his parents.
500. 16:58Um probably some other friends. Um you
501. 17:02know,
502. 17:03I'm sure I talked to him.
503. 17:05Yeah.
504. 17:06Um
505. 17:06but you you don't you're not sure where
506. 17:08he moved to after he got married?
507. 17:10No idea. I mean,
508. 17:11never went over to to visit him or
509. 17:13I don't think I mean I don't think so. I
510. 17:15mean um I don't know. I don't I mean I
511. 17:19don't think I did. Um I mean I know he
512. 17:22lived on Rosco for a long long time. Um
513. 17:30and you're right.
514. 17:31I mean if you guys are claiming that I'm
515. 17:33a suspect then you know I I got a
516. 17:35problem with you know with that.
517. 17:37Okay.
518. 17:37Okay. So you know if you're if you're
519. 17:41doing this as an interrogation you're
520. 17:42saying hey I'm a suspect. Well, now I
521. 17:45got a problem with, you know, now you're
522. 17:46accusing me of this. Is that what you're
523. 17:49Is that what you're saying?
524. 17:50We're trying to figure out what
525. 17:51happened, Stephanie.
526. 17:53Well, I'm I was, you know, I'm just
527. 17:55saying,
528. 17:57you know, would I need to get a lawyer
529. 17:59if you're accusing me of,
530. 18:01you know,
531. 18:01you don't have to I mean, you know,
532. 18:03you're here of your own free will. I
533. 18:04mean,
534. 18:05Well, I know, but I mean,
535. 18:06you know, you're not you're not under
536. 18:06arrest. You can walk out when
537. 18:08you can leave whenever you like. Well,
538. 18:10you know, I I'm trying to give you some
539. 18:11background of, you know, how I knew him
540. 18:14and now you're telling me that some
541. 18:16somebody's saying that we had this big
542. 18:18old fight and I don't even know what
543. 18:19you're talking about. Um, you know, and
544. 18:21I don't want to, you know, get in
545. 18:23trouble for something that I didn't even
546. 18:24do or you're saying I did something.
547. 18:27Okay,
548. 18:28we understand.
549. 18:29I mean, how would you guys like it if
550. 18:31the tables were turned on you?
551. 18:32I understand. No,
552. 18:34that's what we're telling you. I mean,
553. 18:35you're free to go whenever you want. If
554. 18:36if this makes you uncomfortable and you
555. 18:37want to
556. 18:38now you're starting to make me
557. 18:39uncomfortable.
558. 18:41The thing is I mean detectives did what
559. 18:43they could at that time on the crime
560. 18:44scene. Okay. And the burglary thing
561. 18:46you're talking about that is an angle
562. 18:47that they looked at. I go but now we're
563. 18:49looking at everything else on the case
564. 18:51cuz nobody was ever arrested on the
565. 18:52case.
566. 18:53I I don't know that or not.
567. 18:56Okay. Now what we'd like to do is
568. 19:00obviously you know about all the DNA
569. 19:01stuff and things of the nature that you
570. 19:03know gets done on cases nowadays. You
571. 19:06know, if we asked you for a DNA swab,
572. 19:08would you be willing to give us one?
573. 19:10Maybe
574. 19:11because now now
575. 19:14I'm thinking I probably need to talk to
576. 19:16a lawyer.
577. 19:17Okay.
578. 19:18I mean,
579. 19:19well,
580. 19:20I cuz I know how this stuff works. Okay,
581. 19:21don't get me wrong. You're right. I have
582. 19:23been doing this a long time and and I
583. 19:24wish I had been recording this because
584. 19:26because now it sounds like, you know,
585. 19:28there's, you know, you're selling these
586. 19:31people saying I'm a fighting with her
587. 19:32and now it sounds like you're trying to,
588. 19:34you know, I've been doing this a long
589. 19:36time.
590. 19:37Yeah, we know.
591. 19:37Okay. And and now it almost sounds like
592. 19:39you're trying to pin something on me
593. 19:41now. I I got that sense.
594. 19:42Well, what it gets to on these on these
595. 19:44cases, and you know it as well as I do,
596. 19:45our job is to identify and eliminate
597. 19:47something.
598. 19:47I can't believe this.
599. 19:48So, if we ask you to the point to give
600. 19:51us a DNA sample, a bugle swab, so we can
601. 19:55identify or eliminate you. Would you be
602. 19:57willing to do that?
603. 19:58Maybe.
604. 20:00Cuz I know this. I I I I
605. 20:01That's where we're at, too. I mean,
606. 20:03because right now from looking at the
607. 20:06evidence, it's, you know, it's possible
608. 20:08we may have some DNA at the location.
609. 20:10That's great.
610. 20:11And
611. 20:13we're going to do what we can to try to
612. 20:15put this thing together. And your name's
613. 20:17in the book. These people are pointing
614. 20:19at you for whatever reason.
615. 20:21I don't know why. That's just crazy. I
616. 20:23mean, that's just that's absolutely
617. 20:25crazy.
618. 20:25And it would be irresponsible on our
619. 20:28part not to look at it.
620. 20:29I know you guys have to do your job. And
621. 20:31I guess I'm going to have to contact
622. 20:32somebody. So
623. 20:34that's fair.
624. 20:34I mean, cuz I know how this stuff works.
625. 20:37I mean, I I I I
626. 20:40just can't believe it.
627. 20:41That's I mean, we we understand that. I
628. 20:43mean, if we were in your position, I
629. 20:44mean, we would feel the same way.
630. 20:46I just can't even believe it. I mean,
631. 20:48it's just I mean, I'm shocked. I'm
632. 20:51really shocked
633. 20:52that somebody would be blame saying that
634. 20:54I did this. I mean, we had a fight and
635. 20:55so I went and killed her. I mean, come
636. 20:57on. Well,
637. 20:58that's
638. 21:00okay. All right.
639. 21:02Well, thanks for giving me the courtesy.
640. 21:03I appreciate report.
641. 21:04Thanks for your time.
642. 21:05Yeah. Thank you.
643. 21:06All right, Stephanie. Take care.
644. 21:08All right.
645. 21:32This is just absolutely crazy.
646. 21:34Let me see.
647. 21:37This is insane.
648. 21:38Okay,
649. 21:46give me one sec.
650. 21:51Okay,
651. 21:53Stephanie, you know you have the right
652. 21:54to remain silent. Do you understand?
653. 21:55Yes.
654. 21:56Anything you say may be used against you
655. 21:58in court. Do you understand?
656. 21:59Yes.
657. 22:00You have the right to the presence of an
658. 22:01attorney before and during any question.
659. 22:03Do you understand?
660. 22:03Yes.
661. 22:04If you cannot afford an attorney, one
662. 22:06will be appointed for you free of charge
663. 22:07before any questioning if you want. Do
664. 22:09you understand?
665. 22:10Yes.
666. 22:10You want to talk to us right now?
667. 22:12No.
668. 22:14All right. This is crazy. This is abs.
669. 22:17I'm like I'm like in shock. I'm totally
670. 22:19in shock.
671. 22:24Good afternoon. We are back on the
672. 22:26record in People versus
673. 22:29Lazarus. Shortly before noon, the uh
674. 22:33jury announced they have a verdict. We
675. 22:35will take the verdict at this time.
676. 22:37People of the state of California versus
677. 22:39Stephanie Eileene Lazarus. Case number
678. 22:42BA 357423.
679. 22:46We the jury in the above entitled action
680. 22:48find the defendant Stephanie Eileene
681. 22:50Lazarus guilty of the crime of murder of
682. 22:53Sher Rasmmanson in violation of penal
683. 22:56code section 187A a felony as charged in
684. 23:00count one of the information. We further
685. 23:03find the murder was of the first degree.
686. 23:09Your honor, I'm John Rutton.
687. 23:13Thank you for the opportunity to speak
688. 23:15during this hearing. Um, there are
689. 23:17really no words that can describe the
690. 23:19loss of Sherry and the whole of of this
691. 23:22experience. So, it makes no sense to
692. 23:24talk very long. It suffices to say that
693. 23:26the Rasmuson family, my family, and
694. 23:30Stephanie's family have been thrust into
695. 23:32a bizarre world of disbelief and
696. 23:34indescribable sadness.
697. 23:37Sher Rasmuson had a profound impact on
698. 23:39so many people.
699. 23:45and I was proud that she agreed to be my
700. 23:47wife.
701. 23:48It was impossible not to notice Sherry
702. 23:50when she entered a room. To me, her
703. 23:52physical presence was startling. I can
704. 23:55clearly remember the first moment I laid
705. 23:57eyes on her. Sherry Rasmmanson was a
706. 23:59physical presence and my heart still
707. 24:01races when I look at pictures of her.
708. 24:03But Sherry was extraordinary, more for
709. 24:05who she was than the way she looked. She
710. 24:08was a hard worker, a consmate
711. 24:10professional, a leader, a diplomat,
712. 24:13forgiving, tough, and a kid at heart.
713. 24:16Cher's loss, the way she died, and the
714. 24:18trial 25 years after her death has had a
715. 24:21profound impact on many, many others.
716. 24:25The effects are broad and span a
717. 24:27generation, creating pain for those
718. 24:28whose lives should have never been
719. 24:30touched by this tragic event. Again,
720. 24:32words are feeble tools for describing
721. 24:34these impacts, but there are so many
722. 24:37moments and so very many tears. And the
723. 24:39fact that Sherry's death occurred
724. 24:41because she met and married me brings me
725. 24:43to my knees.
726. 24:44Stephanie Lazarus was sentenced to 27
727. 24:47years to life for the murder of Sher
728. 24:49Rasmuson. She is currently being held
729. 24:51inside the maximum security unit of the
730. 24:53Central California Women's Facility.
731. 24:59Any other cars that stand out in your
732. 25:00mind?
733. 25:10[Music]
734. 25:14[ __ ] Yes.