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The "Grave Injustice" of Anthony Graves. 05/21/14 — Transcript

by Vivian R King · 11,606 words · 1,544 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:02thank you for tuning in again tonight we
0:04have something really good a Hot Topic
0:06in the news this week's been charg with
0:09this is a show where I try to
0:28educate
0:53thank you for watching truth and Justice
0:55with Vivian King I have in the studio
0:58one of my favorite guests Mr Anthony
1:00Graves as you might know his story he
1:03was on death row for 18 and a half years
1:06and he was exonerated he was actually
1:09found to be innocent and was able to uh
1:13pursue his life and get your case
1:16expunged I guess yes well I I can I can
1:19get it expunged but I don't want to get
1:20it expunged now because I'm still going
1:22through some proceedings some legal
1:24proceedings and if I get it expunged
1:26then no records are wiped away and I'm
1:28going to need them while I'm grieving
1:30against his prosecutor that is
1:31absolutely true you know that's
1:33interesting that you said that um I want
1:35Anthony to talk tonight and educate the
1:38community about the criminal justice
1:40system I'm going to start off so we can
1:42kind of take it in order by letting him
1:44tell you um maybe give about 10 minutes
1:47of his story background story and then I
1:50want to focus on some of the areas that
1:52we didn't Focus about when he was on the
1:54show last month but I want you to
1:56understand his story he's uh become very
1:58famous he speaks all over the country
2:01he's an advocate for justice for
2:03innocent people who are incarcerated and
2:05falsely accused he has a lot of exciting
2:07programs that he's working on with his
2:09Anthony Graves Foundation that'll come
2:11up with his name um after when he when
2:14his name comes up on the mar so we're
2:17going to first talk about his story and
2:18then we'll get into some of the exciting
2:20things he's doing to try to help people
2:22in the community also to educate and to
2:24make sure no one else who is innocent
2:26stays on death row for 18 and a half
2:28years like he did this is his life's
2:30work so Anthony thank you so much um I
2:33have a little cold so please excuse me
2:35tonight and I'm getting over a cold but
2:37Anthony please uh tell us your story
2:39again wow yeah my story was that back in
2:431992 a horrible crime had taken place in
2:45a little town called Somerville Texas uh
2:49six people were murdered a whole family
2:51they were shot stabbed blonding to De
2:55gasoline pulled all over their bodies
2:57house burned down and an obvious attempt
2:59to cover up the crime that were four
3:01little children under the age of 10 that
3:03was a 16y old grand um granddaughter and
3:06that was a
3:07grandmother uh the sound become outraged
3:11because nothing like that had ever
3:12happened before and they wanted the
3:14person or people had who had done that
3:16to pay matter of fact the the mayor of
3:20that small town come out in the paper
3:22the next day and said that whoever done
3:24this case shouldn't shouldn't even
3:26didn't even deserve a trial they should
3:28just be caught in pain well that's how
3:31they pursued the case okay that uh a guy
3:36showed up with Burns all over his body
3:38bandages at a funer at the funeral the
3:41week later he became a person of
3:43interest to them so when the funeral was
3:45over they followed him home followed him
3:47home asked him if they could talk to him
3:49come to find out he was the father of
3:52one of the children who were murdered in
3:54the fire so he agreed to talk with them
3:58and they took him to the DPS s office
4:00well after over 14 hours of intense
4:03interrogation still today nobody knows
4:05what was all said but they had end up
4:08telling him that if he would give the
4:10name of someone who did the crime with
4:12him they would let him go they just
4:14wanted the other person so this young
4:17man who thought he had just seen me
4:19previous uh coming off the feet of a
4:21highway in a little
4:22Jeep decided to just call my name and he
4:26called my name and they wanted a store
4:28it he gave him like seven eight
4:30different stories that night so they
4:31knew he was lying all right but then
4:34when he finally they finally coarsed him
4:36to give a story that fitted their Theory
4:38they arrested him and charge him with
4:40capital murder and within hours that was
4:42a knock at my door but it was were you
4:45in Sommerville or were you still no I
4:46was in brunham Texas okay brunham Texas
4:49is like an uh 40 minutes away right and
4:53when the knock came in my door was my
4:54neighbor and it was a Sunday morning I'm
4:57I'm you know I'm up and I'm getting
4:58ready to I thought head to Austin and my
5:02neighbor when he knocks on the door and
5:03I answered I said what's up Mike he said
5:06hey man the police looking for
5:07you I said why police looking for me for
5:11what he said I don't know they didn't
5:12tell me they just asked if that's your
5:14car out there so you I told him I
5:16appreciate it and I decided Well you
5:18know if the police looking for me I'm
5:19always at my auntie's home so if they
5:22looking for me they would definitely go
5:23by that so I went I got on the phone and
5:25I called my auntie and I asked her I
5:27said hey Mike just told me the police
5:29was looking for me they've been down
5:30there and she said no I said why the
5:33police looking for me she said I don't
5:35know why don't you call them and see so
5:38I said better yet I'm just going to put
5:41my shirt on I'm going to walk downstairs
5:43and I'm going to look for the police cuz
5:44I'm curious you know of course but I
5:47tell people all the time at this point
5:49don't ever go looking for the police
5:51okay let them find you all right let
5:55them be about their business and find
5:56you because here's the deal I went
5:58downstairs look looking for the police
6:00out of
6:01curiosity and it took me 18 and 1 12
6:04years and two execution dates to come
6:06back
6:07home okay because when I got downstairs
6:11my my worst nightmare was awaiting me
6:13this police officer pulls up I stop he
6:16asked me my name I tell him he asked for
6:18ID I show it to him he got this
6:20perplexed look on his face like he knows
6:23I don't know what's going on so he tells
6:25me that he had to take me to the station
6:27that some officers wanted to talk to me
6:29and I say could you tell me why he said
6:32no but officer down at the station
6:34they'll talk to you when you get there
6:36by this time the guy came Mike came
6:38downstairs and I'm telling him hey Mike
6:41this officer say I have to go to the
6:42police station for something my mom is
6:44on her way home could you let her know
6:46and just tell her I should be right
6:49back as as I said that it took me 18 and
6:53a half years to come back okay when I
6:56got down to the police station and they
6:58put me in the booking room
7:00and it just got me sitting there and
7:02it's like 15 20 minutes going by nobody
7:04said anything to me now I'm supposed to
7:07be a suspect of a murder of a heinous
7:09crime and I'm just sitting in the police
7:11station I'm not handcuffed or anything
7:13I'm just sitting there and so I started
7:14asking the police hey could somebody
7:16tell me why I'm here and they just tell
7:19kept telling me hold on some officers
7:20going to come talk to you so about 20
7:22minutes later four officers in the
7:25magistrate comes in the Texas Rangers
7:28they ask me my name I tell them then ask
7:30me to stand up when I stand up the
7:32magistrate starts reading Me My Rights
7:35and I'm just sitting I'm standing there
7:37cuz I don't know where we going with
7:38this but I'm I'm I'm I'm bracing myself
7:42but I definitely didn't have never
7:44thought that it was talking about
7:45capital murder I thought this was a
7:47ticket something you know something
7:50small and uh she said you've been
7:52charged with capital
7:53murder and there's a there's a a
7:56documentary called grave Injustice that
7:58they did on me that we want to end me
8:00for and in that it has my initial it has
8:03the footage of my initial reaction oh it
8:05was on video when they told me to see
8:07they here's the thing they they hid the
8:08video from us doing trial we didn't even
8:11know about the video so the video never
8:13came up in the tri the video never came
8:14up but there was a video but there was a
8:15video in the intake video where was it
8:18all that time just so happened after 18
8:21years we find it did Kelly seigler find
8:23it I think Kelly seagler had she had it
8:25as well so that means the prosecutors
8:27from the prior case had the same one in
8:29trouble yes they had it and they
8:32withheld this and this this tape shows
8:34you my initial reaction when they say
8:36you've been charged with capital murder
8:37I know
8:38nothing nothing and I and it's it's just
8:41my whole body language just anybody that
8:43watches that they always tell me my God
8:45it's so sad to me because you knew
8:47absolutely nothing no I didn't and that
8:49didn't even come up in the trial your
8:50lawyers were never even provided that my
8:52lawyers this was their first time ever
8:54trying a capital case but I'm just
8:56telling you I've tried several and I've
8:57been a lawyer a long time I would
8:59wouldn't ask for a video in the police
9:02station I wouldn't even know they had
9:03one cuz you don't know where they are I
9:05mean there's a blanket Discovery motion
9:08that ask for all videos but if a
9:10prosecutor says this is all we have I
9:12wouldn't know there were more you know
9:13what I'm saying how would you know I
9:15mean I know now yeah it's it's a always
9:18an intake video okay and uh they hit it
9:24but when it come to light everyone was
9:26like oh my God this man didn't know
9:28anything they could I cuz I was like
9:31what me you know I'm sitting there think
9:33you f to tell me something about a
9:34ticket you talking about capital murder
9:37you know I don't even live my life like
9:38this you know so uh they asked if they
9:42could talk to me of course I agree you
9:45know cuz I'm I'm I'm cooperating
9:47110% cuz I'm innocent and I just want
9:49the truth to be told so I can go home I
9:51got plans you know right you're on your
9:53way to Austin I'm on my way to Austin I
9:55got plans and uh you know this this cat
9:59and mouse game with them went on they
10:00interrogated from me
10:02like 14 15 hours okay until at the end
10:07of it all a Texas Ranger walked up to me
10:10looked me squarely in my face and this
10:12was the lead investigator and he says to
10:14me and it's something I never get out my
10:16mind he said Mr Grace I don't believe
10:19you did it but if you don't give me
10:22something on Carter we going to put this
10:24whole thing on you and if you're
10:26innocent like you say you are then just
10:28don't let no grass grow in your grave
10:30now get him out of here and I looked at
10:32this office I said so I have to go to
10:33jail for something I I didn't do and he
10:36just turned and walked away and then
10:38they start playing the good cop bad cop
10:40on me twisting my arm like they going to
10:41break my arm like they going to beat me
10:42up they taking me out in the hallway and
10:44this guy just got me all on my tip toes
10:46cuz he got my arm so far up my back and
10:48then the other officer walks out the out
10:50of the side and and try to stop him and
10:52tell him he'll take me like he's the
10:54good cop by this time I'm crying now cuz
10:56I'm frustrated because this man sitting
10:58here you know assaulting me I don't know
11:01I haven't done anything to anyone but
11:03they're assaulting me and I'm thinking
11:05to myself I know if this dude didn't
11:07have no gun he was just a regular old
11:08big old uh country ball on the street I
11:10beat his ass for what he doing to me
11:12okay so I'm I'm really frustrated cuz he
11:14tested my manhood right and here I am
11:16I'm innocent right but yet but yet he
11:19has all the law enforcement officers and
11:21the guns and they have big guns all
11:24right and they don't just kill cars like
11:26Rich PRI say right they kill you know so
11:29so uh this went on this went on for for
11:33two and a half years I stayed in jail
11:35waiting trial begging them please take
11:37me to trial because you know I thought
11:39that we had the greatest system in the
11:41world this is what I was taught in
11:42school so if I could just get to trial
11:44and tell the truth I go home how naive
11:47was I because that's not the game up
11:50there the game up there is to win and to
11:53win at all cost see cuz in Texas we are
11:57tough on crime which give us a green
11:59light to convict at all cost taking
12:02shortcuts hiding evidence threading
12:04Alibi witness whatever we have to do to
12:07convict because we are Texas and we are
12:09tough on crime right I just changed the
12:12whole landscape of our Criminal Justice
12:13System we came up with that model
12:16because it was just a green light to
12:17take shortcuts all and that's what they
12:20did with me they withheld evidence they
12:22threaten my witness they they they
12:25purged themselves on on the witness
12:26stand all that to seek a conviction
12:29against someone that they had every
12:30right to believe was
12:31innocent and they end up sending me to
12:35death
12:36row I spent 12 and A2 years on death row
12:40solitary confinement execution dates I
12:44witness over 350 men getting murdered
12:46right there be in front of me guys I
12:49would talk to 12 hours before the
12:50execution date who would sit there and
12:52cry and say they didn't do things and
12:54only to go out and be executed why would
12:57a guy be lying to me this his last
12:59breath he's taken why would he tell cry
13:02in his last breath saying he didn't do
13:03this you know he could have just throwed
13:06his finger up at the rest at the world
13:07knowing he's going out but here's a man
13:10trying to tell you that he's innocent in
13:12the St some did some admit that they did
13:14it a lot of them admit that they did see
13:16there's this myth that goes on that
13:18every inmate claim that he's innocent
13:20that is a bunch of be okay I met guys
13:24down there that that that admitted what
13:26they did and was remorseful I met guys
13:29down there that admitted what they did
13:31and was not remorseful guys that I knew
13:33I would never want to see in my
13:35neighborhood okay but guys that I knew
13:37were mentally challenged that it was sad
13:39that they didn't need to be here they
13:40needed help and guys that was just just
13:44straight up
13:45innocent I met them all wow how could
13:48you tell the difference well you just
13:50tell the difference by character and
13:52then you find out about facts cuz you
13:54read you know you this is the same fight
13:56we all have so if there's any new law
13:58passed down in his case that could help
14:00me I want to know so you you you know
14:02you case search and you read about
14:04things and it's like you reading these
14:06case and you
14:07realize man they don't have nothing on
14:09this
14:10guy but they're gonna kill him because
14:13he didn't have no good attorney he had
14:16no resources he MHMR he can't read can't
14:19write he couldn't even help himself and
14:22the state say he's competent to be
14:23executed now right I seen so much of
14:26that guys I'm talking about put two
14:29sentences together but the state said
14:31they was competent to be executed did
14:33you notice if they were Mo mostly from
14:35small towns or a lot was for small towns
14:38and Harris County oh a lot from Harris
14:40County oh Harris County and Dallas
14:44County Dallas Fort wor area those are
14:47the two largest populations down there
14:49what about Bear County San Antonio Bear
14:51County as well they they about the third
14:53largest they're right behind uh Houston
14:56and Dallas but then you know you have
14:58some small Town not many because a lot
15:00of small towns can't afford to to to
15:03push for a death penalty they don't have
15:04the finances but you mean more people in
15:07the cities because they can afford it
15:09you know so you have a big population of
15:11Harris County a big population Dallas
15:13footwork a big population of B beaw
15:15County and then a lot of other small
15:17counties just fill in the spaces wow
15:21that's what it is we have a a I guess
15:26they they've created this uh
15:30what is it like a
15:34independent where they go and they they
15:36take these cases in these small counties
15:39like it's it's 2 is the prosecution that
15:41does it or the the no they they they
15:43they built this entity that represents
15:47all these counties I know there's one
15:48that's called the Texas Defender serice
15:50that's what I'm talking about but not
15:51not not in Aus they have one out in West
15:54Texas right and it covers all these
15:55small areas right and but you have to
15:58understand something in these small
16:00towns there are not many death sentences
16:03right but the way their Grant is written
16:04up they can't go into a town that car
16:07that has at least
16:09300,000 uh uh people so you talking
16:13Harris County all of all the major
16:15County uh uh cities they can't go into
16:17and help so what good is that because
16:20most of the cases are coming out of
16:22these major Cy right out of Harris
16:24County beaw County and Dallas and for
16:26but this entity that's supposed to be
16:28representing all these counties somehow
16:31roll up a grant that says they can't get
16:33involved in big cities right right right
16:36but but that's why all the cases are
16:37happening so how are you fighting well
16:40the the policy behind that supposed to
16:42be the big cities already have uh the
16:45public defenders office are very
16:47competent lawyers because the
16:48concentration like if Texas has 50,000
16:51lawyers 20,000 are in Harris County so
16:53we have all the lawyers Us in Dallas
16:55County so they feel like there's so many
16:57lawyers they can point that are
16:59competent to do it and no lawyers
17:01competent lawyers are living in the
17:03rural counties so that's why the grant
17:04was written to try to equal the playing
17:06field well that's that I think that's
17:08just hogwash because the most the
17:11biggest populations are coming from the
17:13cities that are on death row and you
17:16have a in a a a system ingent defense
17:20system down here only take 6% of the
17:22cases in Harris County so they're not
17:24even effective because they're
17:26underfunded so how can they really help
17:29you know if they only taking 6% of the
17:31cases right I mean 94% of the cases just
17:34still going
17:36to Public Defense and let me tell you
17:38what the the deal is I have a one
17:40capital murder that's appointed pending
17:42and it's so frustrating because you
17:44can't get the resources can't get
17:45resources and so you end up working so
17:47many hours for free and your health uh
17:52you know is diminished like mine I'm
17:54sick now because you know you have to
17:55work so many hours to try to make some
17:57money and then try to to work on this
17:59case and so it's only so many years your
18:01body can take that yes and I I I noticed
18:04that to be a big problem which is why I
18:05created my foundation and which why I
18:07created this project to get involved in
18:10cases at the initial stage of the rest
18:12provide resources for attorneys okay fa
18:15the process that's all I'm asking and
18:16the way you fa out the process is you
18:18provide resources at the beginning so
18:20that no one has to go through 18 years
18:22talking about he's innocent you can
18:24catch that at the beginning and it saves
18:25us a lot of money on the back end that's
18:27a I love your foundation let's talk
18:29about what you're trying to do a little
18:30bit more we have a caller caller thank
18:33you for calling truth and justice for
18:34Vivian King uh please turn your volume
18:36down on your um TV and ask your
18:40question okay yes I would just like to
18:45recommend young man well it's because
18:48want a lot of computers I'm
18:51sorry he he's very
18:56very he has
18:59I'm trying to
19:02say that's
19:05lock and I was just
19:09like
19:11he and I'm glad out and I'm
19:15glad thank you were you able to turn
19:17your volume down because we we're he
19:19Echo is your volume down on your TV yes
19:23okay I just feel hear an echo so um your
19:25statement is that um he's a testament to
19:27Young
19:28that he made it out is that correct yes
19:31ma'am is't that a beautiful thing God is
19:33good isn't he God is good if it had not
19:36for him yes ma'am yes ma'am you keep on
19:40doing what you do thank you for watching
19:43thank you thank you now tell me Anthony
19:46um 18 and a half years is a long time
19:49now um tell me how you survived the I
19:53think 14 years you were on death row 12
19:55and a half 12 and a half okay tell me
19:57how you survived that you in isolation
19:59about how big is the um 8 by10 cage okay
20:03we don't even call them a cell they're
20:04cages wow that's it's the same thing you
20:06put an animal in wow they're cages and
20:09we was in an 8 by10 cage totally
20:11separated from each other no television
20:14no telephones you're just behind four
20:16walls waiting to die for 12 years for 12
20:20and a half years you just sit there so
20:23what did you do all day cried went to
20:26sleep cried some more night I'm sure you
20:28did a lot of that yeah I did a lot of
20:30crime but see what the the thing with me
20:33is being that I was innocent I was naive
20:37to believe that you you can't kill me so
20:40I just have to wait it out until I go
20:42home because I'm innocent but I seen all
20:45this around me guys with little to no
20:48evidence on their cases guys 20 21 25
20:53getting executed wow I mean
20:56just a healthy living human
21:00being 23 years
21:03old tell me about this 23 year old seems
21:05to be bothering you well it's just that
21:07I I watched I watched a young guy come
21:09down there at the age of 17 he came at
21:1217 he came at 17 he was his name was
21:14Napoleon Beasley and Napoleon had never
21:18done anything other than excelled in
21:20school and excelled in sports okay where
21:23was he from he was from a small town on
21:27East Texas
21:29this young man decided to get with his
21:31friends and they going to go joy riding
21:33and under peer pressure they going to
21:35steal a
21:35car so they put him up to do it he ain't
21:38never done nothing this young man is I'm
21:41telling you come from a very good
21:44family but he make a mistake for five
21:46minutes in his life and let going tell
21:47you what he did he went out to steal a
21:48car and while he was trying to steal a
21:51car a the man walked out of his
21:54house scared beasely beasy turned around
21:57and sh shoot not to kill him but to get
22:01away okay this is a 17y old kid all
22:05right whose mind hasn't fully matured
22:07yet so in his mind he's going to get
22:09away he shoots this man takes our
22:12running this man ends up dying oh my God
22:16and the man is a federal judge dad oh my
22:19God okay now when Napoleon Beasley came
22:23down that was this big ey cry about
22:26juveniles being executed
22:28and we shouldn't be doing that because
22:30their minds hadn't fully developed yet
22:32they're still impressionable
22:35kids Napoleon be was just that but I
22:38watched this young man come down there
22:41and was so remorseful because he
22:43realized this what he did was out of his
22:46character but he was so remorseful that
22:48he reaching back trying to talk to other
22:49kids about what he did to try to keep
22:52them from going down that path how did
22:53he do that from prison just writing
22:55letters writing letters to people uh uh
22:57a probational officers asking them if he
22:59could communicate with their client
23:02writing the Reformatory school just just
23:04reaching out from behind bars trying to
23:07make up for what he had
23:09done and the state of Texas still said
23:12that was not good enough I watched this
23:14man change young boys life from behind
23:18bars made them put down their flags and
23:21pick up a book because of his own
23:23experience and Texas said that's not
23:26good enough and and they executed this
23:29young man at the age of like 23 to
23:3125 and right after they execute him
23:35that's when they passed the law that we
23:37can't kill our kids that we cannot kill
23:38our kids but he was the poster child and
23:42they wanted to make an example because
23:43he killed a federal judge
23:45dad and right after that's when the
23:48Supreme Court
23:49ruled so they held out until they was
23:52able to execute this young black man who
23:54had killed a white federal judge
23:56dad he was only
23:5917 wow and the remorseful of it is
24:01what's so important no one asked him to
24:04do it no one I was so impressed with
24:06this young man because I seen him
24:08getting back up right you know and and
24:12they always say it's not how many times
24:14you fall that makes you it it's how many
24:17times you get back up and I seen this
24:18young man getting back up and reaching
24:20out to this this is on his own based on
24:23his
24:24upbringing and you've seen it in this
24:26young man so he's calling it he's
24:27writing probation officers yes he's
24:30writing who else he's writing probation
24:32officers he's just writing to kids in
24:34Reformatory schools uh you know what if
24:37he he reads the papers and he see
24:39something going on with a child and he
24:41can get address to write he reaches
24:43out and nobody's asking him to do that
24:46and he's he wasn't trying to do it
24:48because he's trying to trick the the
24:50system this young man was truly
24:52remorseful and I watched this and this
24:55young kid growing up
24:58trying to give
25:00back they took his life now tell me in
25:05the trial of someone losing their life
25:07like that somebody that life was
25:09important what do you think a just
25:11punishment would have been for him well
25:13I think just punishment would have been
25:15for him
25:17that he get a prison sentence I can't
25:21say how many how long because I do
25:23believe that people can change but I do
25:25know that he gets a prison sentence
25:28and there are some conditions and the
25:30conditions is what he was doing you you
25:32have to really reach out you have to
25:34really start trying to build your life
25:35back up in and we're going to provide
25:36you with the tools to do so and once we
25:39feel that you're at that
25:41point then we'll talk about parole you
25:44know politics is so great uh if a child
25:47creates a program on his own in prison
25:50without being told to do it yes and we
25:52don't have a system of compassion to
25:55where we could give him clemency but
25:57just think politically You' you're out
25:59of prison now you you're starting to
26:01learn about the politics of things now
26:03uh you'll learn a lot more as you
26:05progress with learned a lot about him
26:06down there right but just think if he
26:08had not been a federal judge's dad oh
26:11it's possible that he would have gotten
26:13uh commun Cent it was too many people
26:15beh it was an International Community
26:17behind this young man because they knew
26:20that this young man mind hadn't fully
26:22developed when he created this crime I'm
26:24talking about international support this
26:27man was the the poster board for
26:29juveniles and they Texas decide because
26:32we're tough on crime we're going to make
26:34an example out of him and then we'll go
26:37along and we'll stop uh killing kids yes
26:41and this young man I say this young man
26:44should be out here today working in in a
26:47foundation like on a foundation like
26:49mine trying to help these kids because
26:51he understands I seen him doing it back
26:53there was those it wasn't that he was
26:56trying to to put on a a good show for a
26:59possible parole cuz he didn't have he
27:00didn't have parole possibility for
27:02parole okay he just wanted he wanted to
27:04give back he said that if if they kill
27:07me then at least I want my leg Legacy to
27:10be that I was trying to give back wow
27:13this is a young man talking to me so
27:15this is a young man who's not denying
27:17what he did no he's admitting what he
27:19did but realizing it was a stupid
27:21mistake I was trying to get away and I
27:23killed somebody yes wow I killed someone
27:26at were there other people with him it
27:28was uh I think it was two other two of
27:30his other friends you think they
27:31testified against him or what happened
27:33were they on death row no no you know
27:36how that go oh I know those who testify
27:38gets off right all right if even if the
27:40guilty testify against the innocent the
27:42guilty go home that's right hey that's
27:44just the way our system is those who
27:47testify first get the break they get the
27:50break you know and and and obviously
27:52they testified against Napoleon I never
27:55seen them down there okay but Napoleon
27:58was executed let's talk about your
28:01foundation and some of the things let's
28:02talk about the three awful things that
28:04happened in your trial that you want to
28:06work to uh to uh correct uh in this
28:09system let's talk about your girlfriend
28:12that was with you that was scared not to
28:13testify let's talk about um the actual
28:17defendant that actually did the killings
28:20uh wife who they charged and and put him
28:23in that bad position I want you to tell
28:24the viewers about that again and um
28:27generally why you want to do this
28:29foundation and to to correct what
28:31happened to you so tell us what happened
28:32to you in your trial you know when when
28:35they came and arrest me and we was all
28:37you know we was going through the whole
28:39uh interrogation thing I always told
28:41them where I was and who was with me so
28:45they knew that I was telling them my
28:46girlfriend was with me so they went and
28:48talk to my girlfriend and she told them
28:50at the time I was with him this is what
28:53we did this is where we were this is
28:55where we laid the whole think kind of
28:58embarrassing but she told everything cuz
29:00she had to yeah so for two and A2 years
29:03they never bothered her two and a half
29:06years never said not one word to her so
29:10it's my trial now and she has already
29:13come to trial took the oat to testify
29:16went back into the witness
29:18room by the time we got ready to call
29:21her to the stand the prosecutor jumps up
29:23and asks the judge to excuse the jury
29:25while he puts some on record so the the
29:28judge excused the jury and the
29:30prosecutor went on to say that my
29:31girlfriend had now become a suspect and
29:34should she testify it's highly likely
29:37that they're going to seek an indictment
29:39of capital murder against her as an
29:43accessory okay just making things up as
29:45an access they have no evidence on her
29:47no evidence they don't have on all and
29:50so so my attorney being in experience
29:53says well you H she doesn't have an
29:55attorney I need to go and tell tell her
29:57that you know cuz he thinking that this
29:59is all in good faith so he goes back
30:02there and tells her what the prosecutor
30:04just said she becomes hysterical and she
30:06runs out crying cuz later she said hey
30:09look my boyfriend been in there for two
30:10and a half years and I know he was
30:11innocent and now they talking about they
30:13going to come after me if I come in
30:14there she was 22 at the time so she took
30:17out never wavered but they scared her
30:20away and then the prosecutor goes to the
30:22jury at the end and says well where's
30:24this girlfriend at why she wasn't here
30:27to testify made them think I was lying
30:30and I get
30:31convicted those were the games that were
30:33played on me so did you testify I never
30:37testified because my attorneys always
30:39say well we're going to decide whether
30:40or not you testify when we get to trial
30:43and never brought it up again I think
30:44that is so egregious an innocent person
30:46should always testify never brought it
30:47up again because they just felt like you
30:50know we don't even have to put nothing
30:52on they don't even have a case against
30:53you they have
30:54nothing so my turn is and relaxing a
30:57little bit but you can't do that no you
31:00know you have if my clients tell me
31:01they're innocent even though just saying
31:03not guilty is enough I want them to
31:06convince me that I want them to convince
31:07that jury just like they convince me
31:08exactly especially if they have nothing
31:10to hide if I really believe them you got
31:13have nothing to hide right put me up
31:15there that I have nothing to hide I'm
31:17not a criminal they just I have nothing
31:19to hide and they decided not to put me
31:21up there because they felt like they the
31:22state never had a case and there are
31:25lawyers that have that philosophy yes
31:27and so I was wrongfully
31:29convicted and then matter of fact one of
31:31the jurors said I never believe that Mr
31:34Grace was guilty but his attorneys were
31:37so
31:38boring that we felt that if we convicted
31:41Mr Grace Mr Grace would get a new trial
31:43and he can get new attorneys they play
31:46Russian roulette with my life that's the
31:47stupidest thing I've ever heard this is
31:49what the jury said that's stupid let's
31:51take a call caller please turn your
31:53volume down and and speak uh speak into
31:56the phone volume down on the TV and
31:58speak directly into the phone thanks for
32:00calling hello hello my name is is Jessie
32:07Patrick Jesse Patrick I have a grandson
32:11in EST unit he been locked up by 30
32:14something years and gave him life and he
32:17didn't do the crime they went against
32:21him and uh I get pray to the good Lord
32:25that he will walk out one day
32:28yes he didn't do he didn't do the crime
32:31they got him still locked up God bless
32:33you ma'am uh I I'm so sorry to hear that
32:37I hope that you participate in the
32:38system by voting knowing who the judges
32:41are making sure everybody in your family
32:43goes to those polls and votes for judges
32:45who are going to be fair and impartial
32:47yes ma yes very important it is so
32:50important we have to vote Yes we do okay
32:53we can no longer be on the sideline with
32:55this vote is important yes sir thank you
32:58for watching and we'll take the next
32:59caller thank
33:03you all right uh next caller you're on
33:06please turn your volume down on the TV
33:07and talk directly into your phone yes my
33:10name is
33:12B and I'm calling regardless of my son
33:15Arthur Barry
33:17b he was charged of a case that he did
33:21not do he been they gave him 42 years he
33:27been like 17
33:30years and I like help if I can get some
33:34help well God bless you ma'am uh this
33:37show is not to help but to educate and
33:39but you're welcome to uh look at the
33:42credits that rolled at the end and uh
33:45email if you want to tell your story on
33:46the show so we can educate people figure
33:49out what went wrong and try to educate
33:50people about the criminal justice system
33:53God bless you do you you have a comment
33:55no I you absolutely right right you know
33:57uh it's you can pick up the phone and
34:00call and you can tell us all day about
34:02what's happening with you to in order to
34:03make change you have to get involved you
34:05have to vote you have to know the judges
34:08I mean you just have to be vigilant in
34:09this fight if not then it's going to
34:11continue to happen your son is just I'm
34:14sorry to say but it's just one of so
34:16many cases I hear about where someone
34:18has been wrongfully convicted and they
34:20SP a young man I was with last week in
34:22New Orleans he got out he spent 44 years
34:25in prison for Crime he didn't commit wow
34:27okay so these stories happen all too
34:30often and that's why we can no longer
34:32afford to be on the sideline with this
34:34when it when it comes to our justice
34:35system we have to get involved and you
34:38have to understand when it comes to
34:40politicians we are their bosses and if
34:43we don't like what they're doing we can
34:44vote them out yes sir but you have to
34:48understand that we do have that power we
34:50have the power of a vote and you're
34:52welcome to get in touch with me
34:54afterwards and I can I'd love to tell
34:56your story thank you for calling and
34:57continue to watch hopefully you can
34:59learn about it and we'll take the next
35:01caller thank you God bless thank
35:04you caller you're on please turn your
35:06volume down and speak directly into the
35:10phone yes this question is for Mr grave
35:13Mr grave what advice would you give
35:17someone who's willing to testify but has
35:22been um they're afraid as of they have
35:25already been threatened wow I'm glad you
35:28asked that that is what my program is
35:30about my program is about getting
35:33Witnesses representation so they feel
35:35empowered to come forward too many times
35:39a lot of people end up wrongfully
35:40convicted because to witness is scared
35:42to come fall because they've been
35:43threatened we here at the Anthony Graves
35:46Foundation have designed a program to
35:48where when someone who is a witness has
35:51been threatened they can call us and we
35:53will try to get them an attorney to
35:55represent them
35:57so that that police officers uh can no
36:00longer threaten him that is our program
36:03there and it is much needed I was just
36:06talking to a former Governor yesterday
36:08about this program and he excited that
36:10finally someone is understanding that
36:13representation has to be extended to
36:15those that are being threatened out
36:16there so thank you for your story and it
36:19is just your story is the exam is the
36:22reason why Anthony graes Foundation has
36:25designed this program to get involved
36:27at the initial stages and when Anthony's
36:29name comes up his foundation's website
36:31is up there you can contact him at the
36:34end of the show my website comes up too
36:36uh Vivian ring.com you can contact me
36:39also if you want to tell your story um
36:41because that's one of the things that Mr
36:43Graves is planning on doing and I'm
36:45going to help him to the best of my
36:46ability and try to get other lawyers to
36:48help in that program too we're working
36:50on it right now but you make sure you
36:52make sure you testify though okay great
36:55thank you so much
36:57thank you well one of the things that
36:58you can do um if you're being threatened
37:01you need to document that you need to
37:03document if what the uh police officer's
37:06name is the prosecutor's name is what
37:10number they're calling you from is if
37:11it's call or ID you need to put that in
37:13writing and you need to send that to
37:15their police chief certified mail return
37:18receipt requested you need to send that
37:20to the district attorney's office it's
37:22actually illegal it's called it's a
37:24crime called tampering with the witness
37:25that's right um if me as a defense
37:28lawyer representing Anthony Graves went
37:30out talked to Witnesses and told them
37:32you better not testify or you better not
37:34lie about your testimony they will file
37:36charges on lawyers for that but when the
37:38lawyer is the prosecutor or or the
37:41police officer no charges gets filed
37:43also because we sit on the sidelines and
37:46we don't make sure these charges are
37:47filed because we let people do what they
37:50want to do as we say in our community
37:52instead of making sure your uh police
37:55Chiefs are accountable making sure your
37:57mayor is accountable hiring police
37:59Chiefs that are going to be fair on both
38:01sides making sure your prosecutors your
38:03district attorney is going to be fair on
38:05both sides asking those tough questions
38:08um also um voting making sure your
38:10judges are going to be fair on both
38:12sides you can't sit on the sidelines
38:14anymore no you definitely can't I mean
38:17because when I was down there on death
38:19row too many of them guys look like me
38:22and look Brown and it told me that when
38:24I got out I had to do something about
38:27which is why I've cred cross the globe
38:28trying to educate people about our
38:29criminal justice system and his need for
38:31reform you cannot afford to stay on the
38:34Seline and let somebody else do it
38:36because those that we have been letting
38:38do it got us in this position today so
38:41it is a must that you get
38:44involved thank you so um and also in
38:47your
38:48case tell us about the other guy whose
38:52wife was threatened not to testify yeah
38:54and so or he had to choose between you
38:55or his wife
38:57so when when when the guy lied on me and
38:59they arrest his name was Robert Carter
39:01and when they when he lied on me they
39:03arrested him and they came arrested me
39:05well they had no evidence and and at
39:07this time by the time Carter was going
39:10to the grand jury and he went and told
39:12him Anthony gra didn't have nothing to
39:13do with this oh he told the grand jury
39:14that he told the grand jury that under
39:16oath first time under o he told the
39:18grand jury well since that Carter was
39:21not going to cooperate with they went
39:24and indicted his wife on Capital murder
39:26charges arrested her put her in jail she
39:28stayed in jail about 2 months wow all
39:30right uh saying that she had something
39:32to do with the crime by the time we get
39:34to the trial they tell Mr Carter you
39:37testify against Mr Grace we dropping the
39:39charges against your wife or if you
39:41don't we G to go after your wife so he
39:43said he felt like he was between a rock
39:45and a hard place he know that Mr Grace
39:47was innocent but Mr Grace been in jail
39:49for two and a half years so if he don't
39:51go ahead and testify against Mr Grace
39:53then he know they going to put his wife
39:54back in jail so he looked at he said say
39:56well I did the worst I did the less of
39:58the two evils I knew that Mr graay had
40:00kids had their mother out there but if I
40:03didn't testify my kid wouldn't have his
40:05mother or father so I went ahead on and
40:07lied on Mr Grace to save my
40:10wife all right that's how that happened
40:13they threatened this man with
40:15Prosecuting his wife should he not
40:17continue to allow on Mr Graves they had
40:19no evidence on his wife they had
40:21absolutely when they when a when a a
40:23court appointed attorney was hired to
40:26represent her after I got my
40:30reversal he said to her well I'm going
40:32to go pull your record see what they
40:35have on her on
40:36her when this man came back according to
40:40what is he was white as a ghost because
40:42he said when he opened up the file only
40:44thing they had was her name on a piece
40:45of paper that's it no evidence no
40:49nothing to say she did anything and
40:51remember viewers the prosecutor who did
40:53this um what happened to the prosecutor
40:55did this the prosecutor who did this
40:57nothing has happened to him up to this
40:59point but he didn't become a judge did
41:01he no he didn't become a judge he
41:03eventually retired he had been the
41:04prosecutor like over 25 years in that
41:06county so he was the elected prosecut he
41:08was the elected prosecutor so he ended
41:10up retiring uh he got uh prosecuted of
41:14the year when he convicted me he retired
41:16with Glory until Senate Bill 825 was
41:20passed by our legislature and when did
41:23that happen Senate Bill 825 passed this
41:26year at the beginning and what that does
41:28now is it allows an exonerated inmate up
41:31to four years to come back and file
41:33grievance if that was any type of
41:35misconduct on behalf of law enforcement
41:37prosecutor Etc so being that the fifth
41:41circuit the most conservative Court in
41:43our
41:44nation gave me a three vote said that
41:49this was egregious prosecutorial
41:53misconduct that opened up the door for
41:56me once I was exonerated to go back and
41:58file under this new bill against this
42:00prosecutor so as it be right now I'm
42:02waiting on the commission to determine
42:05if that's just caused to disbar him okay
42:08they have two months to respond J uh
42:10June the 2nd and how old is he's
42:12probably not even practicing anymore
42:14he's not even practicing anymore he's in
42:15his late probably late 70s early 70s
42:18something like that so he ought to go to
42:20jail he should go to jail he should do
42:2318 years cuz I had to do 18 years and he
42:26should be made to pay restitution but
42:28remember we're in a criminal justice
42:30system that's going to be on his side
42:31they're not going to want him to go to
42:32jail so just to grieve him would be to
42:36take his bar card but if he's already
42:38retired in 72 he can he can surrender
42:40his bar card and yes but he should but
42:43he should he should voluntarily
42:44surrender and he's not he's defiant I
42:46bet he still saying that you're guilty
42:48he's defiant why you know why he can say
42:50it nothing's going to happen to him
42:51nothing's going to happen to him and he
42:52doesn't care about you and he doesn't
42:53care about me you know his history his
42:55history is the racist P right he don't
42:58care nothing about me so he can go wrong
43:00he can he can walk the street saying
43:02Anthony gra is guilty all he want who's
43:04going to do something to him nobody you
43:06know we don't have a law that can do
43:07anything to him at this point right you
43:09know so it I'm hoping so Hush Hush
43:11behind closed doors everybody in his
43:14community that or his friends are going
43:16to say well you know he probably still
43:18was innocent I mean guilty he probably
43:19if he didn't do that he did something
43:20else that's right that's what they're
43:21going to say about him and and everybody
43:24watching is mad because I'm saying that
43:25if don't look like me but you know that
43:27that's what's going to be said of course
43:29you know I mean they never they look he
43:32would never be mad enough to say I
43:33didn't do it I I did wrong and I should
43:35have done it because number one this is
43:38young black man he don't care anything
43:40about number two there are no
43:42consequences for what he did so why
43:44should he admit to any wrongdoing right
43:47you know he went in knowing he was doing
43:49wrong so all of a sudden now he want his
43:52name is Charles seesters how do you
43:54spell that s e b s a s s e b e s
44:00a and he was the elected da he was the
44:03elected da and Washington and burlingon
44:06County he ran them counties for over 25
44:09years and I tell you blacks and
44:12Hispanics that were between the age of
44:13say 16 to 35 was in prison parole on
44:17probation behind this district
44:22attorney that's awful yes it's awful but
44:25I'm hoping
44:26I'm hoping that the commission will
44:28finally stand up against this type of uh
44:30misconduct and make Charles cestus an
44:33example you know because I tell people
44:35when I talk I'm not I'm not out to get
44:38prosecutors I'm out to get bad
44:40prosecutors so that good prosecutors can
44:42seek Justice again right cheating lying
44:46prosecutors yes and and and the good
44:48thing is your your case comes at a time
44:51also with Michael Morton who did more
44:52time than you he did 25 years 25 years
44:55so so I'm sure with both of you uh using
44:58Senate Bill 825 to grieve the
45:01prosecutors um that gives a little bit
45:04more two faces behind uh egregious
45:07misbehavior by uh prosecutors you know
45:10and I think I think it it's having an
45:11impact because I was reading a case the
45:13other day in the Houston Chronicle this
45:16young man named afred Brown who's
45:17innocent down there and they uh Alisa
45:20falkenberg just wrote the story the
45:21other day where the guy had been telling
45:25him that he
45:26had called his girlfriend from a certain
45:28place that shows he's innocent and they
45:31hit the the they HD the telephone log
45:33all these years and they just found it
45:35the other day so the prosecutor say oh
45:37well we didn't know we had this but we
45:38want to turn it over and then they asked
45:41the judge to reverse the case because of
45:43this and then the judge agreed and then
45:46they sent it to the Court of Criminal
45:48Appeals asking for this case to be
45:50reversed and it's been a year and the
45:51court of crimin appeals haven't done
45:53anything and they saying this man is
45:55highly in highly likely innocent and
45:57it's a capital case and it's a capital
45:59case and the court crimin appeals are
46:00sitting on it and they asked that that
46:03this this man get a new tribe and I know
46:06a little about it just before being in
46:07the courthouse I didn't read the article
46:08but that tape was actually in the police
46:12officer's garage he still had it in his
46:14garage in his garage and I know and and
46:16and the police officer is the husband of
46:18a current chief prosecutor that puts
46:20people on death row wow I know
46:22everybody's name wow right and this this
46:25kid is I mean luckily he was honest
46:27enough to say he had it in his garage
46:29well it's because of Senate Bill 825
46:31because had it become had we found it
46:33someone found it before he turned it
46:35over he can be grieved that's misconduct
46:38but just think about this if it was in
46:39his garage he could have thrown it in
46:40the trash Oh yes he I'm I'm I'm I'm
46:43admiring his at least being honest
46:45enough to when when the because I think
46:47it was a big New York law firm that took
46:49this case onia uh Philadelphia pro bono
46:51I was actually in the courthouse last
46:53year when those lawyers told the one of
46:56the lawyers that tried the case the the
46:58Philadelphia lawyers told one of the
46:59Court lawyers that tried the case what
47:01happened and I was listening to it I was
47:03amazed and I knew the parties I mean I
47:05know the prosecutor and I I know of her
47:07husband I've seen him in trial once and
47:10he actually came forward and said it
47:12because I believe most officers would
47:13have thrown it in trash but the thing is
47:15why was why did he have evidence at his
47:16house that's what I'm saying why I think
47:19forgot to get rid of it okay that's what
47:22I think because while just probably just
47:23probably turn the box over of all the
47:25evidence and it just happened to be in
47:26there just happened to be in there and
47:27his excuse was a prosecutor never asked
47:30him to bring it well turn everything
47:31over the prosecutor needs everything you
47:33do your investigation needs to go
47:35whether it's exculpatory or inculpatory
47:38all of that needs to go to the
47:39prosecutor to make a determination to
47:42prosecute the case all the evidence you
47:44don't decide I'm only going to give them
47:45parts of the case you give it all to
47:47them and let them look at it now is this
47:50is this is this police officer going to
47:52be grieved even though he came forward
47:54this man is on death row and he still a
47:56police officer and he's still a police
47:58officer and his wife is younger than me
48:00so that she'll probably be down there
48:01another 20 years that's and our system
48:04and him too that is our system that is
48:06why there's such a need for Criminal
48:08Justice Reform because our system is
48:11designed to F us all the time I trust
48:15that since the officer turned it in that
48:16he will be honest in the future another
48:18thing about our officers though is they
48:20don't live in Harris County they live in
48:22boria County so even though they work
48:23for hbd Houston Police offic I think our
48:26officers need to live in the city I just
48:28have a problem with the fact that they
48:29can go and live in another County be
48:31anonymous you know deal with all this
48:33stuff in Houston the city of Houston
48:35then they go home to Conroe Montgomery
48:38County or perland uh bzour County um I
48:42just think that we should try to hire
48:43people from our own Community people who
48:45would understand who understand who care
48:47people know where they live so they can
48:49respect them if they're doing right yes
48:51yes but that sounds too much like right
48:53that sounds too much like right yeah no
48:55that's not going to going to happen you
48:56know yeah and I think that although I
48:59think the Michael Morton act which is
49:01telling the prosecutor to give us
49:02everything remember the prosecutors are
49:04just giving U the US the defense lawyers
49:07what the cops have given them I think
49:09that I haven't read the whole act but I
49:11think it should go further it should be
49:13on the police officers too it should be
49:15telling the police officers to give
49:16everything to the prosecutors or their
49:17prosecutors can give everything to us
49:19but what if the officer didn't give it
49:20to the prosecutor the bill come up short
49:21in my view okay because it was nothing
49:24but a a a a mirror of the Brady uh bill
49:28that we already have right which which
49:30is in 1968 or 64 yes but I think that um
49:35you know next time you talk to Michael
49:36Mort talk about that case I mean talk we
49:39need to talk about uh the Alfred Brown
49:41case because I don't know if that law is
49:44strong enough to make sure to to put the
49:46burden on the police officers it's not
49:48it's not look that law still doesn't
49:51doesn't demand that the prosecutor turns
49:54over everything because a prosecutor can
49:57still claim work product right okay if
50:00he claiming work product then it's not
50:02exculpatory exactly but it can
50:04definitely be exculpatory and a lot of
50:05things that they still have is work
50:07product closed up or where victims or
50:10wives or girlfriends are saying he
50:11really didn't do that right they're
50:13actually showing exculpatory evidence
50:15which exculpatory evidence is evidence
50:16that tends to prove that you're innocent
50:19okay so say for example Anthony and I
50:21are married and I say he beat me up call
50:23the police on him but I know he's had
50:25some trouble before so I can get him out
50:26of the house maybe really in reality
50:28we're both drunk he has a girlfriend I
50:30just want to get him arrested cuz I'm
50:32mad um I tell the police he hit me
50:34there's no marks but they're going to
50:35take him to jail just to stop the
50:38situation um and then two weeks later I
50:40go down to the DA's office and tell the
50:42truth I'm like look da I was drunk I
50:45lied he really has a girlfriend um or I
50:48was too drunk to remember exactly what
50:50happened so no bruises ever showed up a
50:53couple days later maybe I really kind of
50:55failed
50:56that tends to show that he might be
50:57innocent that's evidence that they
50:59should turn over to us but a lot of
51:01times what the prosecutors are doing is
51:02they're writing that down with the with
51:05the what I would have said and then they
51:07put it in an envelope and they seal it
51:10they they close it up they lick it they
51:11seal it and put on their work product so
51:14when we look at the files the defense
51:15lawyer looks at the file we are we know
51:18that we cannot open anything that's work
51:19product but a lot of times it's actually
51:21exculpatory evidence that tends to show
51:24that he's not guilty or at least
51:27evidence that the pro that the defense
51:29has a right to have because our job is
51:30to investigate so if she did make two
51:33different statements one the night
51:35Anthony was arrested and another
51:36statement when she came in certainly as
51:38a defense lawyer I need to have both of
51:40them so I can question her about both of
51:41them find out did you just lie and say
51:44he didn't do it because you're scared of
51:45him and now yall are back together so
51:47you need his money or were you really
51:49drunk and mad because and sending him to
51:51jail because you know the cops hate him
51:53because they know that he's beat a case
51:55before you know I can actually try to
51:57evaluate it myself so I'll know what to
51:59do so that's why I need it yes but but
52:01but with that bill it doesn't turn over
52:04that evidence okay that's work product
52:07but if the bill would have said all
52:09evidence not just excp let's let the let
52:13let the uh Court decide what's excp
52:15defense LA or the defense law let's have
52:16a power W let the defense in in in the
52:19in uh prosecutor has a have a power wall
52:21over the evidence let's see what's
52:22really exculpatory what's not
52:24exculpatory more time s did not work
52:26product in some kind of way becomes
52:28exculpatory and it becomes the key Lynch
52:31pin in the case it does it does but yet
52:35we have laws that says under the micore
52:38act and all that that you can't get that
52:40and the thing is so sad is that we have
52:42to legislate what's right yes that's
52:45what's so sad is that prosecutors are
52:47taught to convict when they shouldn't
52:50they should be trying to seek the truth
52:52so fast that they'll do anything to get
52:55get a conviction or to be afraid of
52:57what's considered a good defense lawyer
52:59the truth should be there like you said
53:00there should be a pile while there
53:01should be a meeting that's required of
53:03all sides the defense the prosecution
53:05the police officer go through all the
53:07evidence that's there so that we can
53:09make an informed we get to the truth
53:11that's all we want to get to is the
53:12truth because 90% of all people plead
53:15guilty in some kind of plea anyway so
53:16let's get to the truth so if they're
53:18guilty that's just a whole another sit
53:20oh cuz we got a we got a ple bargain
53:21system we do okay people are afraid to
53:24go up there and fight themselves and you
53:26know what's sad about it Anthony is
53:28that you know I'm older than you but in
53:32the day that I grew up and maybe I was
53:33naive but the police and the justice
53:36system was not overworked and it wasn't
53:39this many people in the justice system
53:41because they really just arrested bad
53:42kids you could smoke a joint they throw
53:44it away if the cops found it you could
53:46drink a beer when you shouldn't have
53:48when you were underage they throw it
53:49away because but they if you were
53:52selling heroin or if you were robbing
53:54people that's the the kids that they
53:55took to jail all right but now we take
53:58everybody ja because we figured out how
53:59to make money off of it and that's
54:01what's so sad about it we got private
54:02prisons and all that now so sad about so
54:05we human child now right okay they know
54:07how to make money off our criminal
54:08justice system now put them down now and
54:11let them work for free and you you can
54:14you you know you can pick all cotton you
54:16can pick these peas out of and we sell
54:19all this stuff and we make a lot of
54:21money and then we give them whatever
54:24food so bad that they Health decline
54:26okay that when they come out for example
54:28with me when I came out I hadn't really
54:29been to a doctor 18 and a half years and
54:31I come out and that guy told me he said
54:33you know what you are lucky you got so
54:35much plaque in your vein that you're
54:36threatening a heart attack aneurysm or
54:38anything okay I had over 133% plaque in
54:42my veins because of the bad food that
54:44they was feeding me down there you know
54:47see that's just a whole another issue
54:49wow yeah it's it's bad all the way
54:51around and the thing about our prison
54:54system what I be trying to to tell
54:55people is that look the way we have this
54:57thing designed now guys that we're
54:59sending down now are coming back with
55:02more baggage than they were when they
55:03left and that threatens our community it
55:06does you know so this the prison system
55:09has become a four against the community
55:12because they're sending out bad people
55:14they're not doing what they're supposed
55:16to do which is to rehabilitate these
55:17people make sure they can come out and
55:19have a chance of being productive that's
55:21just out the window with making
55:24money it's bad it's bad and that's why
55:27we cannot afford to stay on the
55:29sidelines anymore that's why I've taken
55:31my own money and created this Foundation
55:33to help our kids steer them from the
55:35pipeline one of the things I I'm really
55:37high on is educating our kids about our
55:40justice system and what to do when you
55:42come in contact with police officers
55:44because more time than not at risk you
55:47children are the ones that come in
55:48contact with law enforcement what I
55:50realized is when it happened to me I
55:52didn't know nothing about how to how to
55:54defend my rights I didn't know to keep
55:56my mouth shut until I got an attorney
55:58regardless of the fact that I was
55:59innocent I just wanted to tell them the
56:01truth and it worked against me people
56:04need to know how to deal with law
56:05enforcement respectfully when it happens
56:07to them and that's one of the things I'm
56:09really high on is educating our youth
56:11about how to deal with a situation like
56:14that so that you don't end up being
56:16Trayvon Martin okay so that you don't
56:19end up getting a 100 years because they
56:21saying you sit there and try to uh
56:24hormon officer and all you was trying to
56:26do is turn around and ask the question
56:28because you didn't know what was going
56:29on and then he beat you and said you
56:31tried to do something to him right
56:33people don't know these things and
56:35that's why I'm so high on educating our
56:37youth about our criminal justice system
56:40and the need to have the certain kind of
56:42respect so that you don't get you don't
56:44get in a situation that's too far over
56:46your head and that is look when an
56:48officer approach you you have to have
56:50enough respect for this officer that you
56:52don't make him feel threat that's number
56:54one cuz they're easy threatened because
56:56most of the time those were the cows at
56:58school that come out and got a gun so
57:00they can get back at those who bothered
57:01them when they was a kids you can't
57:04approach the situation hostile because
57:07you may be innocent and you upset that
57:09they didn't stop you you got to have
57:10your wits about yourself he has the gun
57:13he has the keys you need to
57:16just be respectful ask for your an
57:19attorney keep your mouth shut and let
57:22the process begin that's all you have to
57:25do all that man why you doing me no
57:28don't do that that gives them the green
57:30light to harm you and then put it on you
57:33you got to be mindful you got to be a
57:35little bit more sharper than the out
57:37there because they're killing us well
57:39we're getting the signal to wrap it up
57:40so say something to wrap it up and
57:42hopefully we can get Anthony Graves to
57:44come back co-host the show and um tell
57:47us more about what he's learned of this
57:4920 years in the criminal justice system
57:51of course you know all I want to say
57:52Anthony gra Foundation we started this
57:55here because of what I G I went through
57:57I went through the system from top to
57:59bottom and I've seen all the failures
58:01and I know that there are some important
58:03programs that needs to be in place out
58:04here that number one steer our kids from
58:07this prison pipeline but number two
58:09fight this beast that's in that
58:10courtroom that's that's that's really
58:12harming us and that's the Injustice so I
58:14started my program by getting involved
58:17with uh cases at the initial stage of
58:18arrest I want to protect key Witnesses
58:21and also I've started a mentorship
58:23program for these kids I want feed them
58:25in the evening so that they don't have
58:26to go to bed hungry at night feel a need
58:28to go out and steal somebody purse
58:29because they're hungry cuz I feel like
58:31through their stomachs I can get to
58:32their minds and educate them about the
58:34things they need to know out here all
58:36right we got to wrap it up we'll
58:37continue in about a month when we can
58:39see if we can get Anthony to come back
58:41and share some more words of wisdom good
58:43night and please watch truth and Justice
58:44with Vivian King next Wednesday good
58:48night thank you for tuning in again
58:50tonight we have something really good
58:53topic in the news
58:55this is a show where I try to
59:23educate
59:40thank you for
59:53inight

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