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The Future of Finance, Built in America - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2026 — Transcript

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0:08Token 2049, Eric, coming to New York?
0:11Well, how cool is this? Every time I
0:12speak at one of these events, I'm either
0:13in Dubai or in Singapore. Now it's in my
0:16backyard. I'm a New Yorker. I was born
0:18in that city and you know, my father
0:20actually developed a lot of the Javits
0:21Center in New York and that's the big
0:23convention hall that that Token 49 is
0:25going to be in. So, we can't wait to
0:26host you guys. We can't wait to have you
0:28all in
0:29one of the greatest countries, the
0:30greatest country in the world, America.
0:32And America is doing so great right now.
0:33The way it's embraced cryptocurrency
0:36under my father's administration has
0:37been amazing. Crypto was dead in the
0:39United States until 3 years ago. And so,
0:41to bring this to New York, to bring this
0:43to the kind of the, you know, the the
0:44the the the most capitalistic city
0:46anywhere in the world, to bring it to a
0:47building that we know very well,
0:50um, you know, kind of brings all all of
0:51these roots together and we can't wait
0:52to have you all there.
0:54Well, thank you, Eric. I'm excited also
0:57to be back in my hometown uh next year
0:59and and we'll get it there. But in the
1:00meantime, it's actually all of our
1:02hometown. We were all born in New York.
1:05Yeah. There we go.
1:07So, book your tickets ASAP.
1:09Folkman,
1:10um,
1:11and I'm saying Folkman just because
1:12there's two Zaks on stage.
1:16Let's go back 2 years ago.
1:18Um, I remember when World Liberty was
1:20just getting started. Uh, before the
1:22controversies, it was it just an idea.
1:26What was the original vision of World
1:28Liberty at the time?
1:30Yeah, I think, uh, when we all sat down
1:33at where uh, it was a Trump Dorrell, I
1:35think, and we were talking about how
1:38crypto hasn't really gained mainstream
1:41adoption simply because it's not
1:44user-friendly. It's not easy. It's not
1:47something where mainstream users can
1:49pick up an app and simply pay for goods
1:52and services the way they're used to
1:54doing through traditional payment
1:56methods. And so, our entire vision has
1:59always been around to make crypto
2:01user-friendly, whether that's through
2:03USD1, a globally accepted stablecoin
2:07that is essentially just a digitized
2:09dollar, or the application that we're
2:12rolling out very soon, which makes it
2:15very simple for people to hold, earn,
2:17and spend with their crypto through a
2:19card or tap-to-pay, and abstract away
2:23the difficulties that have kept people
2:26outside of experiencing the benefits of
2:28crypto, which everyone in this room
2:30obviously knows it's faster, it's
2:32cheaper, it's easier, and there's better
2:34yield opportunities. So, that's always
2:37been the foundation of everything that
2:39we've built, whether it was a stablecoin
2:41or our lending market or our consumer
2:43app and debit card.
2:45>> So, you stuck to the mission.
2:46>> And and I'll say this, um, you know,
2:49there's a lot of talk about USD1,
2:52um, because it's been, you know, such a
2:54successful product. We're currently the
2:56second biggest genius compliant
2:58stablecoin in terms of both market cap
3:00and volume. Um, but we're also, uh,
3:03building a lot and, you know, in the
3:06on top of the World Liberty Ecosystem.
3:08So, we just enabled staking for the
3:11World Liberty Financial W LFI token.
3:14Um, you're actually paid in USD1 by
3:17staking that WLFI for 180 days.
3:20>> Which, by the way, is a huge, huge
3:23opportunity because
3:25typically with staking, as all of you
3:27know, you get paid in the actual token
3:30that you are staking, right? So,
3:32typically you stake a token, you receive
3:34more of those tokens. We wanted to do
3:36something that was a little bit
3:38different and provided more value for
3:40people, which means rather than paying
3:42rewards in WLFI, paying it in a
3:45US-denominated stablecoin.
3:47>> Well, and interestingly, David, these
3:50rewards are funded, um, from protocol
3:54revenues from from WLD.
3:56So so things like, you know, World
3:58Liberty Markets, right?
4:01And so, you know, token holders are now
4:03starting to see the benefit of being a
4:05token holder.
4:07And we're excited to provide a lot more
4:09value to them
4:10you know, in the future.
4:11>> Yeah, as the ecosystem continues to
4:13grow,
4:14the utility and the value around World
4:16Liberty Financial will continue to grow
4:19with it.
4:19>> I mean, you've seen the start of this
4:20seed and and to your point, it's this is
4:23becoming a very sophisticated ecosystem.
4:25But Eric, I mean, the the germ of this
4:27idea was that simply banks didn't work.
4:30And you know, we see on Wall Street a
4:33lot of transformation right now, but no
4:34one has had a better view of this than
4:36you. How have you seen Well, first, what
4:38did you see the problem with TradFi
4:40previously and how are you seeing it
4:41change?
4:42>> Yeah.
4:43Well, there's no bigger critic of the
4:44big banks than than me. We were
4:45debanked. My father got into politics by
4:47every single one of the the big banks
4:48and they hated crypto. They they hated
4:50the people in this room. They didn't
4:51believe in what we saw. They didn't
4:53believe in making finance more efficient
4:55and faster and cheaper and just a better
4:57user experience, right? And and
4:58everybody in this room saw it and
5:00everybody started driving toward it and
5:02the big banks around the world certainly
5:04in the US, but all around the world, I
5:05mean, they did everything they could to
5:06hamper progress in the financial
5:08industries, right? I mean, they did
5:10everything that they possibly could and
5:11including debanking so many of the
5:13people in this room and we were
5:14certainly getting debanked at the time
5:16and I'll just never forget that. I
5:18That's when I met these guys and the
5:19same hell that they were getting was the
5:21same hell I was getting and that kind of
5:23made us almost best friends and you
5:25know, we we made it a mission to change
5:27that and we won. We beat the big banks
5:29around the world, guys. All of us in
5:30here beat the big banks because every
5:32single day you see another one of these
5:34banks, JP Morgan, right? Embracing
5:36cryptocurrency. You see what BlackRock's
5:38doing. You see what Schwab's doing. You
5:39see what Fidelity's doing. You you see
5:41the biggest banks on planet Earth that
5:44are running toward cryptocurrencies in
5:45ways that 18 months ago you couldn't
5:47even possibly imagine. And so, you know,
5:50cryptocurrency was built off of the
5:51retail investor. It was It was built off
5:54the back of individuals who who had an
5:56idea and thought it could be done
5:57better. And now all of a sudden you've
5:59got the biggest institutions in the
6:01world who are sprinting toward it, who
6:02are putting billions of dollars into it.
6:05You know, and it's making it mainstream.
6:07I don't think if you went back 3 years
6:09you could have ever thought that the
6:10adoption of digital assets would have
6:12taken, you know, the course that it's
6:14taking and as fast as it's taking. And
6:16now all of a sudden you you you look at,
6:18you know, what you're doing with the
6:19tokenization, right? You're tokenizing
6:20everything, all different types of
6:21products and we can get into that in a
6:23little while, but you're tokenizing real
6:25estate, you're tokenizing Hollywood,
6:27you're you're you're tokenizing
6:28commodities. You know, you can tokenize
6:31music and the arts, you know, and and
6:33and valuables.
6:34You know, it what crypto's doing and the
6:36way it's permeating every aspect of our
6:38lifestyle, the way it's making our
6:40lifestyle better is just really
6:41fantastic. And again, go back 18 months,
6:44you you would have never seen the
6:46acceleration that that we've seen. And
6:48frankly, it's because of all of you.
6:49It's because of this conference, it's
6:50because of the people in this room, it's
6:52because people dared to push back
6:55against major headwinds, guys. We pushed
6:57back against incredible headwinds.
6:59And and honestly, I think today we can
7:01all declare victory.
7:02>> And and this is a big part of our
7:04mission at World Liberty, by the way.
7:05We're doing it today. So, we're we're
7:07tokenizing the Trump Tower in Dubai on
7:10Sheikh Zayed.
7:11Um everyone in this room will have an
7:13opportunity to own a piece of the Trump
7:16Tower in Dubai, right? Like who who
7:18would have thought that was possible?
7:19>> announcing the Trump International Hotel
7:21in the Maldives.
7:23>> Yeah, that's right. Um and so, that you
7:25know, these are things, David, that
7:26nobody thought would be possible 5 years
7:29ago. If I told anyone in this room 5
7:31years ago, you could own a a single
7:34share token of of, you know, one of the
7:37best hotels in the world operated by,
7:40you know, some of the most successful
7:42real estate people in the world in in
7:44the Trump family, they would they would
7:46say that's impossible.
7:47>> But do you think this is a sign of
7:49things to come or is this like a
7:50one-off? Look, it's it's great, to be
7:52honest, to have an opportunity to invest
7:54in in a unique property like this run by
7:56great people. But is this the beginning
7:58of a trend or the end of it?
7:59>> It's got to be the beginning of a trend,
8:00right? So, you know, Zach and I were
8:03both in commercial real estate and are
8:04in in commercial real estate and you go
8:06around the world, how many how many
8:08banks around the world can finance Trump
8:09Tower in New York on 57th and 5th in New
8:11York? What, five, six, seven? Right?
8:15Why?
8:16Why is that? Why is it that, you know,
8:17people in this room who might not have
8:19the kind of money a big bank has, a
8:21Deutsche Bank or one of these, you know,
8:23why can't you own part of a a company,
8:25part of an asset that you otherwise
8:27believe in? Right? And now all of a
8:29sudden you can do that through
8:29tokenization and so,
8:31you know, in a certain way it's it's
8:32actually philanthropic. It's
8:34philanthropic in terms of giving people
8:36opportunity to invest in things that
8:38they believe in that they could have
8:39never otherwise had the opportunity to
8:41invest in. Again,
8:42the average retail investor would never
8:44have a chance of even remotely
8:46considering owning a piece of property
8:48on 5th Avenue or,
8:50you know, to Trump Trump International
8:51Hotel and Tower in Dubai or a Trump
8:54property in the Maldives.
8:56But but guys, if you if you extrapolate
8:58this trend out, go further out, you
9:00know, why can't you own a piece of a
9:02Monet? You might not be able to buy it
9:03for $40 million of a Picasso.
9:06You know, but maybe you can own 1/1000
9:08of that, right? You're an art collector,
9:09you love it. Maybe you love Taylor
9:11Swift, right? You like her her music,
9:14you know, why can't she go out and sell
9:16a million shares of of of the the
9:18revenue of her next album? And every
9:20Swifty fan in the world can go out there
9:22and buy a piece of it. And you know what
9:23that does? It brings a community
9:24together. It it it makes you more
9:27involved, you know, in terms of a hotel,
9:28it's going to make you more likely to
9:30stay at that hotel, to utilize that
9:31hotel because you have ownership of
9:34something that you could have never
9:35otherwise had ownership of. And so
9:37that's happening across every sector,
9:39every industry. That that's going to
9:40come incredibly quickly. And then you're
9:42going to have the tokenization
9:44of equities,
9:45of stocks.
9:46You know, again, just allowing more
9:48people vis-a-vis a smartphone to to
9:51access financial freedom.
9:53That's what digital assets are doing
9:55right now, and it's just amazing to see
9:56that that train going down the tracks as
9:58quickly as it is.
9:59>> And and I'll just add Sorry sorry,
10:01David. I'll just add
10:03you know, what you're also seeing is a
10:04democratization of the lending markets.
10:08So Eric mentioned groups like JP Morgan,
10:10Bank of America. These are the groups
10:12that traditionally had a monopoly on
10:14lending. Well, now everyone in this room
10:17can be a borrower or a lender, you know,
10:20for these premium assets, right? So I
10:22can take my hard-earned money,
10:25you know, put it in World Liberty
10:26Markets, and all of a sudden I'm a
10:28lender against, you know, a Class A
10:30piece of real estate, or a lender
10:32against Bitcoin. Um and so I I think
10:35this is
10:36this is definitely the the start of
10:38something very big, and this isn't just
10:40a flash in the pan.
10:41>> Well, we've seen that as
10:42>> Sorry.
10:43>> I was going to say the funny thing is
10:45to Eric and Zach's point, retail
10:48investors are now getting the value of
10:50these sorts of platforms like World
10:52Liberty Markets. But now we see, back to
10:55Eric's point, there are institutions
10:59that are already coming and utilizing
11:01these platforms because they see that
11:03it's better. So for example, on World
11:06Liberty Markets, people that are holding
11:09assets in qualified custodians,
11:12they're able to now supply on markets
11:15and borrow against those assets. So that
11:17unlocks things like Dats, institutions,
11:20funds that are holding Bitcoin and other
11:22assets in these qualified custodians,
11:25they're now able to borrow against it
11:27using decentralized platforms.
11:28>> So is that
11:30>> Just because you can, are people
11:31actually doing that? Are you seeing
11:33institutions use the same platforms that
11:35retail can?
11:35>> Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean,
11:37we haven't even been live for a year on
11:40World Liberty Markets, and already we're
11:43at a billion dollars in TVL, making
11:45Markets one of the top 10 lending
11:47markets in the entire industry. We have
11:50300 million dollars of USD 1 being
11:53supplied, and half a billion dollars of
11:55stablecoins total on Markets right now
11:58today. We have people that are holding
12:01assets in qualified custody, borrowing
12:03against those assets on Markets, and
12:05it's just continuing to grow as more and
12:07more people want that option.
12:09>> So so Witkoff, are you seeing that
12:13sometimes the demographics of your users
12:14might be younger, and this is part of
12:16their portfolio composition might be
12:18being a lender, for example, as one of
12:20their income streams. It's totally
12:21novel. People couldn't do this before.
12:24>> Yeah, sure. I mean, our our demographic,
12:26I think, you know,
12:28maybe maybe skews younger. That's just
12:30kind of the nature of digital assets,
12:32but as the industry matures,
12:35you know, Zach was talking about the
12:37qualified custodian lending.
12:39Um, you know, that universe is starting
12:41to expand, right? Uh, what do
12:43institutions want or need? They want all
12:46of the benefits of DeFi with, you know,
12:48none of the DeFi risk, and that's
12:50exactly what this product gives them.
12:53Um, so yeah, I mean, we we serve young
12:55customers, we serve institutions,
12:58um, really anywhere where someone's
13:01using a dollar, you
13:02>> But it's been democratized, right? I
13:04mean, you're seeing access to very
13:05sophisticated tools that simply wasn't
13:08possible for, and if I'm not mistaken,
13:10that's kind of in the gold paper.
13:12>> Yeah, sure. I mean, that that was the
13:14exact vision for the company when we
13:16laid it out 2 years ago. I mean, I
13:19think, you know, we we have a lot of
13:21detractors, a lot of haters
13:23>> Oh, yeah?
13:24>> because of who we are, but we're doing
13:25exactly what we laid out in the gold
13:27paper and we're going to keep our heads
13:29down and we're going to keep executing
13:32on behalf of our customers and be on
13:34behalf of our employees.
13:36>> So, we've now crossed is it 4 billion
13:38dollars in
13:40USD 1 circulating supply?
13:42>> A little shy of 4 and 1/2 billion of
13:44circulating supply today. Um, you know,
13:47routinely trades between a billion and 3
13:50billion of volume a day,
13:52um, making us I believe we're the
13:54actually the number three stablecoin
13:56globally in terms of volume behind only,
13:59you know, USDT and C. Um, and again,
14:02we're going to keep our heads down,
14:03we're going to keep executing, you know,
14:05we're only
14:06you know, not even two years into the
14:08journey of USD 1,
14:11um, and I think the next two years are
14:12going to be much, much bigger.
14:15>> Well, I do want to ask because we do see
14:18this from the press. They say, you know,
14:19World Liberty's launched this USD 1,
14:21uh, and you mentioned earlier Zach
14:23Folkman that the app is coming. This is
14:26a long-awaited app. Um,
14:28you know, maybe you can expound a little
14:30bit more about why World Liberty has
14:32made certain strategic decisions and
14:34focused on certain things first as
14:35opposed to others.
14:37>> Yeah, I mean, I think it makes a lot of
14:38sense the way that we've actually gone
14:40about executing to Zach's point. You
14:43know, the first fundamental layer of
14:46having a new financial ecosystem is to
14:48have a digitized dollar. Everything
14:50around the world, all global payments
14:52eventually flow through the dollar. So,
14:55making sure that USD 1 had distribution
14:57and liquidity was absolutely paramount
15:00to actually achieving our goals.
15:03Everybody in this room has seen that. We
15:04have partnerships and we're listed on
15:06all the major exchanges around the
15:08world. You can use it on crypto
15:09platforms for trading, collateral for
15:11perps, you name it.
15:14Even borrowing and lending on markets.
15:16Building that markets component was
15:18absolutely critical because it allows
15:20people, like Zach was saying, to be able
15:22to supply assets and borrow against it
15:25and earn yield. The next layer is to
15:27build that mainstream consumer
15:30application that allows users to be able
15:33to hold, earn, and spend those digital
15:36dollars. And back to what Eric was
15:39saying, when we sat down and really
15:40wanted to revision how this entire
15:44ecosystem worked, it was about
15:46abstracting away the difficulties around
15:50using crypto in everyday transactions.
15:52So, pretty much everyone in this room is
15:54probably a crypto native, comfortable
15:56using things like MetaMask or other
15:59non-custodial wallets, but if you really
16:01want to onboard that next generation or
16:04that next cohort of users into crypto,
16:08it needs to be so easy that my mom, your
16:11mom could go out and actually do it in a
16:14way that's seamless, the same way
16:16they're used to using Venmo, Cash App,
16:17etc. And so, one of the biggest reasons
16:21that we didn't prematurely release the
16:23application was because we wanted to
16:26make sure that we really achieved the
16:28experience that we set out as our
16:31standard. And now, fortunately, through
16:33partnerships with companies like Mesh
16:35and Visa, we've been able to build what
16:38we believe is really going to be a
16:40change for the entire landscape. And so,
16:43that means now we're ready to release
16:45the World Liberty Financial app that
16:47we've, you know, announced, I don't
16:49know, maybe a year ago or so, and
16:51everyone's waiting when it's coming.
16:53It's now ready to be released.
16:55>> Well, you know, Apple only releases
16:56products when they're ready, and I think
16:58it sounds like a pretty good philosophy,
17:00Eric. Uh, you know, another thing I
17:01wanted to to to bring up is that we've
17:03seen the real growth of USD1, but what's
17:07important about that is it's a US dollar
17:09stablecoin. And Eric, something like 98%
17:12of all stablecoins in circulation are US
17:14dollars. So, first, A, why do you think
17:17that's the case? Why is it US dollars
17:19that are so popular? And B, is this good
17:21for the US dollar and what does that
17:23mean?
17:24>> Yeah, this is very good for the US
17:25dollar.
17:26The US dollar is a reserve currency of
17:27the world. Like it or not, everybody
17:28wants it.
17:30You know, they launched stablecoin that
17:31was denominated off of the euro and
17:33literally only half of 1% of all
17:35Europeans
17:37wanted a stablecoin denominated against
17:39the euro. You know what they all wanted?
17:40They wanted the US dollar. You go to
17:41South America, guess what they all want?
17:43The US dollar. Even the countries that
17:45actually have different forms of
17:47currencies down in, you know, South
17:49America, Central America, guess what?
17:52They all still trade off of the dollar.
17:53You look at so much of Asia, guess where
17:55they where they want to put their money?
17:57They want to put it in in the dollar.
17:58Look at the Middle East, they want to
17:59put it in the dollar, right? So, the
18:01dollar is is is is such the dominant
18:04currency
18:05of the world and and and that's why this
18:07works, right? You've got the security of
18:08the United States of America, you've got
18:09the the security of the superpower of
18:12the world, you've got security of the
18:13greatest financial system
18:15in the world. I mean, right now, if you
18:17look at, you know, the financial system
18:18in in the United States, we're a $35
18:19trillion uh
18:21economy a year, right? And and that's
18:23off of a a population of 350 million
18:25people. Just comparing that to China for
18:27a second, you're at about, you know, 23
18:29trillion and that's off of a population
18:31that's obviously, you know, four to five
18:32times the size, right? So, you know, the
18:34power of of the US is is astronomical.
18:37The growth of the US right now is
18:39something that I don't think we've ever
18:40seen before. We've got about $20
18:42trillion of inward investment that's
18:43coming into the US. And so,
18:45um but but but the putting,
18:47you know, it's stablecoins, it's
18:49bringing trillions and trillions of
18:50dollars into the US economy is a
18:52wonderful thing. It's a great thing for
18:53the reserve currency. It's probably a
18:54great thing for the stability um around
18:56the world. It it it just further kind of
18:58fortifies um you know, the safety of all
19:01of our investments and I think that's a
19:03a really net positive for for everybody
19:05globally, which is why they're all
19:06gravitating toward the US dollar.
19:08>> I mean, Zach Witkoff, you've seen that
19:11it's in order to comply I should say
19:13with the genius act. It's essential that
19:16every one of your USD one tokens is
19:18fully collateralized by US dollars and
19:21cash equivalents housed in a US
19:23regulated bank. So one thing I think
19:26that we have to talk about to the
19:27audience is something that's happened
19:28since last year. You applied for and so
19:31far I might understand is have
19:32conditional approval for an OCC
19:35chartered national national bank
19:37charter. Can you first tell us a why you
19:39decided to go that direction and be what
19:41this means?
19:42>> Yeah, sure. We received our conditional
19:45charter August 14th. It's actually the
19:48same day that my second son was born. So
19:52it was a quite an eventful day for me.
19:54>> It's like two birthdays.
19:54>> Yeah, [laughter] exactly.
19:57You know, it was a very long process.
20:00We answered all the you know questions
20:03and policies
20:05that the OCC you know
20:07demanded of us
20:09and you know, ultimately we were granted
20:12our traditional our conditional charter.
20:14Why did we do this? A, we need to
20:17control our own destiny.
20:20Right today we're issuing through BitGo.
20:23In the near future we'll be issuing
20:25ourselves. So it lets us take our
20:26destiny into our own hands.
20:28But B, this is the highest bar in
20:31American finance, right? Um
20:34Ultimately we're dealing with people's
20:36money here, right? And I said earlier
20:39during our announcement there's trust me
20:41and there's show me, right? And this is
20:43us showing people, right? That we follow
20:46all of the policies, all of the
20:47procedures, whether it be AML, KYC,
20:51one-to-one backing, you know, the
20:54tens of policies internal policies that
20:58we'll have, you know, per OCC guidance.
21:01Um so you know, ultimately this this
21:04builds a lot of trust in our
21:05institution.
21:07But I want to be quite clear. We've done
21:09this in spite you know, of all of the
21:11attacks against our company. We're
21:13probably one of the most attacked
21:14companies anywhere in the world, not
21:17just in crypto.
21:18Um whether it be the mainstream media,
21:20you know, some of these politicians with
21:23nefarious motives.
21:25Um but we've done it in spite of all of
21:26that and we're building an institution
21:29that people can really trust. Uh people
21:32can really depend on. Um and ultimately
21:35we're doing that, you know, for our
21:36customers.
21:37>> And just to further Zach's point,
21:40despite all of the,
21:42you know, controversies that has come up
21:44around this, we've done this because we
21:46want to be regulated.
21:48>> Yeah.
21:48>> We've gone out of our way to subject
21:50ourselves to all of the different, like
21:53Zach was saying, policies, guidelines,
21:55et cetera that anyone else who would
21:58want to issue a US denominated
22:00stablecoin would have to go through. We
22:03went through all the proper channels and
22:05we asked to be regulated, which sets a
22:07much higher standard on USD1 and
22:09demonstrates what we're really trying to
22:11build here.
22:12>> Exactly.
22:12>> And and I I might be biased here, but I
22:14got to say, I mean, like if it's my
22:17hard-earned money, there's no way that
22:19I'm, you know, putting my money in an
22:22unregulated stablecoin that, you know,
22:25has none of these checks and balances in
22:27place. It's it's, you know, my
22:29hard-earned money and, you know, when
22:31you're putting your money into a
22:32product, you deserve transparency, you
22:34deserve trust, you deserve to see, you
22:37know, monthly attestations and yearly
22:39audits and things like that, right? So,
22:42you know,
22:43uh we try to put ourselves in our
22:45customers' shoes, right? Um and if it if
22:48it were me with my hard hard-earned
22:50money, I would only want to be putting
22:52that into, you know, regulated stable.
22:54>> Well, it's worth noting a couple things.
22:56First, isn't it true that first this was
22:58approved by career staff of the OCC, a
23:00regulator? And second, that these
23:03controls and these supervision is going
23:05to survive the current administration
23:07and many more.
23:09Zack.
23:10Bookman.
23:11>> I think that's a Zack Wyckoff question.
23:13>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean this was reviewed by
23:15career staffers at the OCC. These aren't
23:18political appointees, right? These are
23:20people who have been there 20, 30, 40
23:22years in some cases. Um like you said,
23:25this will, you know, survive any one
23:28administration. And and you know, that's
23:31the whole point here, right? As you
23:32know, Zack said it earlier, we ran
23:34towards regulation.
23:36Um you know,
23:37we don't we don't really look at, you
23:39know,
23:40what party is in, you know, in control
23:43or not in control, you know, we're
23:45worried about building a business here.
23:47That's that's what we're worried about
23:49and we're worried about, you know,
23:50ultimately earning the the the trust of
23:52our customers.
23:53>> And Eric, this is a business that was
23:55built, even initially, for the long run.
23:58You know, this vision is much bigger
24:00than a year or two years. It's the a
24:02vision as big as crypto.
24:04>> Yeah, there's no question, guys. You
24:06know, the the the banks treated people
24:07so poorly. If you think about it, I mean
24:09you had yields out there that were 10
24:11basis points. You go put your your your
24:13money in a just a regular savings
24:15accounts and the banks were absolutely
24:17ripping you off. They were taking you
24:19for a ride. And and guess what? You
24:20wonder why they're building this, you
24:22know, 6 7 billion dollar buildings on,
24:25you know, Park Avenue and Madison Avenue
24:26in New York. Where where the hell do you
24:27think they're getting that money from?
24:29They're they're getting it from deposits
24:30of people that they're paying zero yield
24:32on and then all of a sudden
24:33you have an industry, you have people go
24:35out and say, you know, we can do this
24:36better. We can do it cheaper. We can do
24:37it more transparently. We can give back
24:39to the the very people that have have
24:41gotten nothing out of the banking system
24:43for so long.
24:45And then the, you know, banks come out
24:46and they fight and say, yeah, how dare
24:47you? You know, how you dare you suggest
24:49something like this? You know, we must
24:50all play on an equal playing field, even
24:52though they've been absolutely ripping
24:53people off, you know, for years and
24:55years and years. I mean, look at the
24:57Swift's wire transfer system. I talked
24:59about this all the time because it
25:00drives me crazy, but
25:01you know, every single week in kind of
25:03the hospitality side of what I do, we
25:05build a lot of these things, right? A
25:06lot of a lot of the greatest hotels and
25:07golf courses and residential buildings
25:09and commercial buildings in the world,
25:10but
25:11every week we're waiting for a wire
25:13transfer to come in.
25:14Right? On on on a Friday afternoon or
25:16we're sending one out. You know, most of
25:18the time they don't come in, guess what?
25:19You know, the the the intended recipient
25:21doesn't get that wire transfer until,
25:22you know, Monday afternoon.
25:24Are you getting the interest on that
25:25money over the course of a three or
25:27four-day weekend? No. You know who's
25:28getting their money on, you know, JP
25:29Morgan and all the rest of the banks. Is
25:31that fair?
25:32Why wouldn't you just settle it
25:33immediately?
25:35You can settle it even worse if it's
25:36international.
25:37>> You can say you can say Yeah, of course.
25:39I mean, you're sending money across, you
25:40know, a a
25:41How do you send money from Singapore to
25:44New York, you know, right now? I mean,
25:45just tell me. If you want to go buy a
25:46watch in New York right now, how do you
25:48do it? What bank do you go to? How do
25:50you do it? What's what's the conversion
25:51rates? What's the, you know, how do you
25:53know how much of the FX trade is the
25:55bank going to take? How are you know, is
25:57it going to ever get to the intended
25:58recipient? You know, versus
26:00David and I, we could take our phones,
26:02we could touch them together, we could,
26:04you know, we could have the transaction
26:05happen 2 seconds, the money can hit the
26:07wallet instantaneously.
26:09Why do you have that middleman?
26:11What what good does that middleman
26:12serve?
26:13Right? And this is why the banks push
26:15back so hard against all of us, right?
26:17They they realized
26:19they were on the losing end of this
26:20trade. It's why they fought it like
26:22hell. It's why they continue to fight
26:24all of us every single day. And but but
26:27but yeah, again, as I said before, it's
26:28we're we're winning because stablecoins
26:30are being adopted. They're being adopted
26:33by the credit card companies. I mean,
26:34Zach was just talking about Visa a
26:36second ago. You see what PayPal's doing.
26:38You see what what all these companies
26:39are doing. You see how much faster
26:41transactions are taking place. You see
26:43how cheap [snorts] transactions are
26:45taking place.
26:46Right? This is a beautiful thing for for
26:47society. It's a beautiful thing for kind
26:50of globalization and and and and
26:52business, you know, across borders. This
26:55is a great thing for humanity and um you
26:57know, fortunately fortunately, the banks
27:00are going to be on the losing end of all
27:01of this, which truly, truly warms my
27:03heart.
27:04>> That [laughter] is a heartwarming
27:05thought indeed, but you know, you were
27:06talking about the benefits to humanity.
27:09I want to talk about the benefits to
27:10maybe another type of species,
27:12superintelligence as they call it. So,
27:16uh just today, I believe, OpenAI had yet
27:18another monumental achievement of
27:21proving 300-plus mathematical problems.
27:24And Folkman, you know, you came up on
27:25stage at the World Liberty Forum at
27:27Mar-a-Lago, and you talked a little bit
27:29about agentic commerce. So, a couple
27:31questions. First,
27:33I don't personally use any agentic
27:35commerce. A, am I behind the times? Or
27:38is this coming, and if it comes, how
27:39fast is it coming?
27:41>> Yeah, that's a great question. So, at
27:43World Liberty Forum, we announced our
27:46agentic SDK,
27:48um which essentially allows any user of
27:51any AI platform. It's completely
27:53agnostic. So, whether you're using
27:55ChatGPT or Grok or Claude, it doesn't
27:58matter. It allows users with a single
28:00command to be able to load a USD1 wallet
28:04onto their agent, and then enable those
28:06agents to be able to go and transact
28:09either with other customers, with
28:11vendors, or even with other agents. And
28:14so, you're not behind the times, don't
28:16worry. Um the reality is is that we are
28:20going to see a world where the amount of
28:24transactions
28:25that occur person-to-person
28:28are massively eclipsed by transactions
28:31that are occurring agent-to-agent.
28:33Whether these are, you know, just
28:35regular payroll or, you know, paying
28:37vendors, whatever, or even just looking
28:40at microtransactions, which could never
28:42actually be settled using an actual
28:45dollar. You can't send fractions of a
28:47penny, but you can send fractions of a
28:49stable coin. And so, right now the
28:52volume is very small in the Agented
28:54Commerce space, but in the next 1 to 2
28:58years even, we are going to see it
28:59eclipse the amount of transactions that
29:02are actually happening
29:04uh in terms of real people that are
29:06going to be transacting, and USD 1 is
29:09already positioned to capture those
29:11transaction flows.
29:13>> Yeah, we're seeing just enormous growth
29:14in the AI space, and it it does seem to
29:16make sense if you see
29:17>> SI
29:18>> SI, that's correct.
29:20Super intelligence, let's not forget. Um
29:23well,
29:24you know, the
29:26there's supposed to be uh Mr. Folkman
29:27also a card coming out. Can you tell us
29:29a little bit about an update on the
29:31World Liberty debit card?
29:33>> Yeah, sure. So, the debit card is going
29:36to be linked to our consumer app. People
29:38can load funds onto it. They can earn in
29:41the app, and then they can spe- like
29:43spend those same dollars at point of
29:45sale, whether it's with the the card or
29:47linking your card to your Apple Pay so
29:49you can use tap to pay. Um but the thing
29:52that I think is really exciting about
29:54our card, cuz there's other crypto cards
29:56out there,
29:57when you deposit funds into the World
29:59Liberty app, and you choose to earn,
30:02like move it into the earn function,
30:04you're going to be able to be earning
30:06right up into the second of point of
30:09sale. So, I can keep all my funds in my
30:12earn account, and then go pay for a
30:13coffee at Starbucks.
30:15>> That's like paying with a savings
30:16account with actual interest. Exactly.
30:19But you can't do that right now. You got
30:19to like transfer it from the savings
30:21into your checking.
30:22>> Typically with crypto cards, what we see
30:24is a user can load funds onto those
30:27card, and then they can go spend it.
30:29It's almost like a prepaid card. What
30:31we've done is we've actually changed
30:33that model, so now users can be earning,
30:37and the the rates are insane. Like to
30:40Eric's point before, we're not talking
30:4110 bips. I mean, it's obviously a
30:44fluctuating APY based on what the rates
30:46are at any given time. So, we're talking
30:49multiple percent. Like multiple percent,
30:51hundreds of basis points that you're
30:53earning in real time up until the exact
30:57moment that you want to spend that
30:58money, which we think is a massive game
31:00changer.
31:01>> Well, and as we continue to build these
31:02layers, David, on top of USD1, like I
31:05was saying earlier, you know, you're
31:06going to see real value accrual if
31:08you're a W token holder. So, you're
31:10already seeing that today in the form of
31:12staking. Right? That's funded through
31:15various protocol initiatives. Um like
31:17Zach said, that's actually paid in USD1.
31:20Um not W. I think you'll see some more
31:23stuff soon on on the value accrual
31:25front, but um you know, as we continue
31:27to build these layers,
31:29um there's going to be a lot of value
31:30accrual to the token holders.
31:33>> Eric, I wanted to ask you,
31:34do you think that people are going to
31:36start getting paid in stable coins?
31:37Because right now, seems like one of the
31:39friction points is that people have to
31:41take
31:42US dollars or Singapore dollars and then
31:44convert them into a stable coin. Is that
31:46going to end or are people going to go
31:47straight to it?
31:49>> Listen, we're an incredibly big
31:50employer. We we have tens of thousands
31:51of people around the world at all our
31:52hospitality offices. There's no question
31:54that we're looking at it. I mean, people
31:55already are, right? I mean, you you take
31:57so many athletes, just using a silly
31:58example, you know, look at how many
32:00athletes, you know,
32:01kind of requested or required that their
32:03contracts be paid out in Bitcoin over
32:05the years, right? And and by the way,
32:07you know how much money was made in
32:09those contracts? Oftentimes, the amount
32:11of money that athlete made was so far
32:13eclipsed by the actual kind of growth of
32:16the the underlying asset. That was the
32:18greatest financial deal that they could
32:19have ever made, right? And so, you're
32:21going to see that. You're going to see
32:22that around the world, and you know,
32:24frankly, it it makes a lot of people's
32:25lives easier. You know, people don't
32:27want to have to clear a check.
32:29You know, people don't want to sit there
32:30with a piece of paper that they're still
32:31getting at so many from so many
32:33employers. Have to go down to the bank,
32:34sign the back of the thing, cash it, you
32:37know, wait for that financial
32:38institution to you know, 24 or 36 hours
32:41to clear that check. They want their
32:42money in the in their account
32:44immediately. And I think if you go
32:46across borders, right? I mean, so often
32:48times we think of things from the most
32:50sophisticated financial, you know,
32:51markets in the world, the Singapores,
32:53the the the New Yorks, the the Miamis.
32:55Go to so many countries that don't have
32:57a sophisticated system. Go to so many
32:59countries that have
33:01a crappy currency. I hate to say that,
33:03but a currency that's not worth
33:04anything, right? That has massive
33:06inflation. Now all of a sudden, imagine
33:08you're getting paid out in that
33:08currency, but you can instantly change
33:10it over
33:11to USD1. Now all of a sudden, you could
33:13be denominated against the US dollar. So
33:15instead of having 60, 70, 80% inflation,
33:19you know, all all of a sudden, you're
33:20pegged to the US dollar, or all of a
33:22sudden, you're rolling it into a a
33:24Bitcoin, something that can appreciate
33:25massively in in value.
33:28That's an amazing thing for the world,
33:29right? I mean, again, so often times we
33:31just
33:32you know, we we we think we represent
33:34the entirety, and we we just don't.
33:37There's a lot of people
33:38who who are in economies that don't
33:40stand a chance, that are broken, that
33:42are corrupt, that have bad currencies.
33:45And I think stablecoins going to change
33:47a lot of that. It's going to be faster,
33:49it's going to be cheaper, it's going to
33:50be more transparent.
33:52And again, it can get you away from the
33:53very product that you're often times
33:54being paid in
33:56that that that's almost working to to
33:58your actual demise.
33:59>> Speaking of Speaking of the athlete
34:01front, by the way, we're already seeing
34:02real life examples of this today. So, uh
34:05you know, the the UFC event that was uh
34:08hosted on the White House lawn.
34:11World Liberty was a was a proud sponsor
34:13of the event, and uh we actually paid
34:16out uh to Justin Gaethje and Ciryl Gane
34:19uh the fight of the night bonuses, uh
34:21250K each, paid out in USD1. And these
34:24guys received their money in like half a
34:26second. And they both actually contacted
34:29us to be like, "Oh my god, this is
34:30incredible." You know, usually these
34:32fighter of the night bonuses will take,
34:34you know, a week and I got to call my
34:36banker and see if the money hit my
34:38account. And in this case, right, they
34:40received their money in in about, you
34:42know, 2 seconds.
34:44Um so, we're seeing, you know, this this
34:46story play out in real life and, you
34:48know, like I said, I think the next 2
34:50years are are only going to be stronger
34:52than the last two.
34:53>> And that changes things. This If you get
34:55your money faster, you can also spend it
34:56faster and that creates a economic
34:59velocity which happens.
35:00>> Yeah, you earn interest in real time,
35:02right? Like you were saying, um you can
35:04spend it faster. I mean, it's,
35:07you know, I I I said it before, but um
35:10you know, internet moves at the speed of
35:12sound, right? Stablecoins are quickly
35:15becoming the cash layer of the internet
35:17if they haven't already. And we believe
35:19that stablecoins and and ultimately
35:22money should move at the speed of of
35:24sound, right? Just like the internet
35:26does.
35:27>> And the internet's constantly growing,
35:29especially with with SI and with
35:32stablecoins are the currency of choice,
35:34we shall see very soon, then if this is
35:37going to grow. Because right now the
35:38projections are such and I think most of
35:39us here have seen the charts. It's now
35:42trillions of dollars a year. Trillions
35:44of dollars a year transacted in
35:45stablecoins and that's projected to be
35:47more and more and more. Do you think,
35:49Eric, that stablecoin issuers, like
35:52World Liberty, are going to be as
35:54commercial purchasers of US Treasuries
35:56buying up some of the
35:58on the demand side buying up some of the
36:00US debt that maybe foreign countries
36:02that don't necessarily like America are
36:04trying to sell?
36:05>> Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's no
36:06question about it. You know, I want to
36:07bring up a a point that that that
36:09Folkman was was mentioning before.
36:11You know, with this advent of AI, you
36:13know, so many so many people in this
36:14room were pissed off and and to a
36:15certain degree, I probably was as well,
36:17but you kept on seeing this kind of
36:19cycle out of cryptocurrency over the
36:20last year and into this kind of AI
36:22trade, right? It's one of those things
36:23that probably depressed Bitcoin prices
36:24for a a but you just saw it across the
36:26industry and everybody was mad as how is
36:28money cycling out of crypto? How is
36:30money going into AI? And I kept on
36:31saying to people, "No, this is the
36:32greatest thing that could ever happen
36:33because the faster AI grows, the faster
36:35digital assets are going to grow. In
36:37fact, the thing that's going to spawn
36:38the growth
36:39of digital assets by far the quickest is
36:42actually the AI trade and and and and
36:44people, you know, how are you going to
36:46if you want to take your your your
36:48husband or your your wife or your sister
36:50or brother, if you want to take them to
36:51London, you go on your AI agent and you
36:53tell them to book you a a great room at
36:54the Ritz Carlton or the Sands or, you
36:56know, wherever you're going.
36:57You're not going to use fiat currency
36:59for this. You're not going to use paper
37:00currency. You know what you're going to
37:01do? You're going to use your wallet. You
37:02know, the faster AI
37:05you know, and the faster people embrace
37:06AI and and and the technology and the
37:08faster that gets integrated into
37:09people's life, you know, the the the
37:11faster this industry is is going to grow
37:13and we should embrace the hell out of
37:15that despite the fact that you're going
37:16to see money continuously cycle be
37:19between the two. So, now it's cycling
37:20back out and it's coming back into
37:21crypto, all right? We're seeing that.
37:22We're seeing prices go up. But, the
37:24faster our kind of friends on the other
37:26side of the aisle in in AI
37:28can sprint to toward their goal, the
37:30better this industry is going to do. And
37:32so, um I I think that's a huge part of
37:34it. And then and then certainly I I
37:35think, you know, the the trillions of
37:37dollars that are going to flow from
37:38every country around the world into the
37:40US dollar, is that a good thing for
37:43the economy? Of course it is. Is that
37:44good for the, you know, kind of you
37:46know, the US deficit? Of course it is.
37:47It just means that your money supply,
37:50which is your denominator,
37:51you know, is exponentially larger than
37:53it's been before, which just gives you
37:54kind of more economic power than you
37:56ever had before. So, so it's a wonderful
37:58thing for the US dollar.
38:00We were talking a little bit about
38:01tokenization, Eric and I and I promised
38:03to go into a little bit further. We've
38:05seen tokenized stocks really take off.
38:08Um it's actually unbelievable. A year
38:11ago, it was essentially just an idea.
38:13And now we're seeing, including pre-IPO
38:15companies, being purchased, uh you know,
38:17very very swiftly. We're seeing huge
38:19demand for these.
38:21Do you think that we're going to see
38:22RWAs
38:24potentially eclipse purely digital
38:27assets in terms of trading volume or
38:29interest?
38:30>> I mean, I think I think the jury's still
38:32out. You're already seeing enormous
38:33volumes um on on the RWA front. So, USD1
38:37is, you know, paired with things like
38:40Micron,
38:41uh SanDisk, uh Nvidia, SpaceX.
38:45>> For their equities.
38:46>> For for their for their equities and for
38:48pairs. Um you can trade those on Astra
38:50today. A lot of those are listed on
38:52Binance and other exchanges. Um but
38:56we're seeing enormous volumes there,
38:57right? Because, you know, we're
38:59ultimately you're democratizing access
39:02to these assets too all around the
39:04world.
39:05Um and it's, you know, assets that
39:07people are really really excited about.
39:09And, you know, we think that ultimately
39:13almost every asset in the world will be
39:15paired against USD1. That's the goal
39:16here.
39:17>> Yeah.
39:18>> I think to Zach's point and even to what
39:20Eric was saying about democratizing
39:23this,
39:24the ability for somebody in a village in
39:26Vietnam or a country like Nigeria who
39:30maybe can't get a traditional Robinhood
39:32account or a brokerage account to get
39:34access to companies like SpaceX can now
39:38go with their crypto wallet and they can
39:40go trade SpaceX. And they can get the
39:42same access that people in first world
39:45countries have been able to have for
39:46quite some time. So, um whether it's
39:49securities, whether it's real estate,
39:51whether it's tokenized hedge funds, this
39:54is the this is literally where things
39:55are going right now. And it seems with
39:58all the investment that companies like
40:00Nasdaq are already starting to make into
40:03tokenization and rolling out their own
40:0524/7 trading platforms, there's no doubt
40:08that this is going to continue to grow
40:10and probably even eclipse the
40:12traditional crypto assets that are being
40:14traded on chain.
40:15>> And to expand on that,
40:16this is the reason why guys, right? It's
40:18some of the most kind of
40:20developing countries in the world world,
40:22some of the countries that have gotten
40:24hit the worst by wars and and other kind
40:26of instability, they're almost the
40:28people that are adopting crypto fastest.
40:29You know why? Because this becomes your
40:32median
40:33to make payment. Like you walk around
40:34this hotel or you walk around one of the
40:36Trump hotels, you've got really
40:37expensive, you know, micros and you've
40:39got great point of sale systems and you
40:41can run up and you can run cards in the
40:42back. You don't have the infrastructure
40:45in so many countries around the world to
40:46do that. You know what becomes the
40:47infrastructure?
40:49Your phone becomes the infrastructure,
40:50right? You know, being able to tap your
40:52friend's phone, that's your
40:53infrastructure to making a payment. This
40:55is your gateway to the entire modern
40:58world.
40:59Without crypto, you would never have
41:00that. You know, you you'd be trading
41:03shekels, you'd be trading you know, I
41:06mean, you'd be using raw currency. Now
41:07all of a sudden, the one thing that
41:09connects most of humanity at this point,
41:11the one thing that's in in in most
41:12people's pockets at this point becomes
41:14your gateway to kind of modern financial
41:17freedom and uh
41:19it's a really beautiful thing.
41:21>> Yeah.
41:21>> Well, I'm excited to hear more about
41:23this development, CSI take off its
41:26stable coins with it and maybe we'll get
41:27a big update next year in New York. What
41:30do you think, guys?
41:30>> We're we're excited for New York. I
41:32mean, Alex and Raphael, the guys behind
41:35this conference, they I always say they
41:37put on the greatest show I think in all
41:39of finance. I mean, look at this room,
41:41look at the event they put on. Um the
41:44team behind
41:45>> Token 2049 is is a really, really
41:48talented team and you know, we've been
41:50to conferences all over the world. I
41:51mean, and and no one does it like Token
41:542049. So when they bring this thing to
41:56the United States in New York City,
41:59uh I think it's going to be huge. So I
42:02did encourage everyone to go get your
42:03tickets now cuz I'm pretty sure this
42:05thing's going to sell out pretty quickly
42:07and no, I do not have any sort of rev
42:09share agreement with Token 2049 nor does
42:12world liberty, but I think that thing's
42:15going to sell out pretty quick.
42:17>> Let's go. All right. Well, thanks
42:18everybody.

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