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The Fundamentals of Bitcoin’s Value with Phil Geiger — Transcript

by The Peter McCormack Show · 14,190 words · 2,074 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:02why do you love the Huddle wave
0:05the Huddle wave is the history of
0:09Bitcoin and its decentralization over
0:13time
0:14so it's a very complicated chart there's
0:17a lot going on but what's amazing about
0:19it is you get to see exactly how people
0:23have been behaving with their Bitcoin on
0:26the base layer so what we're looking at
0:28is the black line is the US dollar price
0:31uh-huh
0:33all those colored lines are different
0:36age bands of Bitcoin that have been
0:40living in Bitcoin addresses so all
0:42Bitcoin live in addresses tracked by the
0:45blockchain which is a database of all
0:46the transactions do we know which ones
0:48are lost here
0:49we can speculate the ones in the upper
0:52right hand corner the purple and blue
0:54ones are very likely lost because those
0:57Bitcoin have been sitting at addresses
0:59for longer than 10 years that's the
1:01purple band the blue band is seven to
1:04ten years and so it's very likely that a
1:07majority of those are lost in that kind
1:09of correlates with what people believe
1:11to be lost so in about four four million
1:13right yeah something like that two to
1:15four million so yeah what I really like
1:16about it is you can you can see people's
1:19behaviors during the the pumps and the
1:22dumps so
1:23um during like the 2017-2018 run up to
1:2720K you see some of those upper bands
1:30starting to contract right the the light
1:32green band which is the people who've
1:34been holding Bitcoin for three to five
1:35years uh sorry the lighter green is two
1:37to three years the darker green is three
1:39to five years you start to see those
1:40getting smaller and smaller and that's
1:41when those longer term huddlers likely
1:44started selling their Bitcoin when
1:46Bitcoin hit 20K they're like wow this is
1:49crazy I've been holding thing since
1:50eighty dollars I'm gonna you know sell
1:52it for some other currency and to
1:55improve my life
1:56but what else was that you buy a house
1:59get a car buy some chairs finally the
2:03what's really cool about right now
2:07um so all the way to the right side of
2:08the chart is
2:10our run up to 69k what we didn't see was
2:15the large the the older age bands
2:19Contracting as much so if you look at
2:20the light green band and you look at the
2:22dark green band they didn't really
2:24contract they kind of stayed uh stable
2:27and then now over the last month or so
2:30they're actually starting to grow which
2:31means in my opinion that the people who
2:34bought when Bitcoin was 700
2:38were pretty unimpressed by this run to
2:4169k they're like I'm not I'm not selling
2:43my Bitcoin at 69k this thing's going to
2:45a million or whatever uh and so they
2:48didn't sell so all of the all of the uh
2:52pump to 69k and the dump now down to 20K
2:55looks to me like it's come out of the
2:58newer Bitcoin so the lower half of the
3:00chart the yellow the orange the red and
3:04those are all the the d-gens at coinbase
3:06uh gambling on board apes and uh you
3:09know selling their Bitcoin for or Luna
3:12and then losing their shirts so the
3:15long-term hodlers here have been I would
3:18say bored by this last run up and just
3:21no I agree I've been bored by it 69k
3:24yeah dude we were promised like 100k
3:28200k 300K
3:30I was promised a foundational reset of
3:33the entire global economy
3:35uh that's why I'm here uh the the price
3:38in in dollars is is just kind of fun
3:41it's something that I like to uh pay
3:43attention to just because I you know I
3:45work in Bitcoin full time and definitely
3:47impacts our business but for me I'm here
3:51for the Long Haul and my utxos are
3:53starting to get uh older and older and
3:56older and they will continue to get
3:57older do you know what else this looks
3:59like
4:01remember painting by numbers yeah
4:04it's like this looks like right you're
4:06gonna feel you're gonna paint a like a a
4:09rocky Outback
4:11and then you're gonna get catch the
4:12forest in the background in the sky yeah
4:14it's the Bob Ross of this beautiful
4:16Bitcoin you know just happy little bands
4:18yeah I love like little utxo bands so
4:21what happens if say
4:24say I had like some Bitcoin and cool
4:26storage and I signed up to uh Unchained
4:30and set up a multi-sig yeah those coins
4:33move
4:37um but then so you have to have coins so
4:39what what you do when you sign up for
4:40multi-sig is my team the concierge team
4:43at Unchained will send you Hardware
4:45wallets we'll walk you through setting
4:47up the hardware wallets building the
4:49most secure type of Bitcoin address
4:50which is the multi-sig address and then
4:52once you have that it's your choice you
4:54can either buy Bitcoin from us into your
4:56address or if you've purchased Bitcoin
4:58somewhere else you can then move it to
4:59your address I didn't ask for a sales
5:01pitch did I this is a sales pitch come
5:03on man you laid this one up dude I was
5:05saying with this I would say if I move
5:07my coins yeah then
5:10are they considered moved here yeah so
5:12if you have if you have coins at
5:14coinbase that's this is what I was
5:16trying to get to is yeah if if you have
5:17coins of coinbase and you're like I need
5:19to improve my security you would have to
5:21move your coins into a new address which
5:23would reset uh the age of them right so
5:26this is entirely accurate because it
5:28could be people just moving coins well
5:30it is entirely accurate for the movement
5:32of all the coins now the rationale
5:34behind the movement we don't know for
5:36certain exactly so there's a lot of
5:38speculation but I just think it's cool
5:40to see how and you can start to see the
5:43waves of adoption over time and what's
5:47interesting about right now is there's
5:50never been a time in bitcoin's history
5:52where the Bitcoin has been sitting for a
5:55majority of the Bitcoin has been sitting
5:56for this long so really yeah so if you
5:58look at the yellow band that's the one
6:00year age band uh it's very thick and
6:03it's starting to take up a majority like
6:05everything above that has been sitting
6:07for many years it's not going anywhere
6:08yeah that's the one year band and and
6:10you can just see it kind of getting
6:12lower and lower on the overall chart and
6:15that's because now about 70 percent of
6:18all Bitcoin has just been sitting for I
6:21think either longer than six months or
6:22longer than a year it's very fascinating
6:25um so all of the churn and the the price
6:28uh speculation
6:31is happening with in my opinion exchange
6:34coins yeah for the most part it's like a
6:37smaller and smaller number of exchange
6:39coins are what's causing all of these
6:41price fluctuations so how much do you
6:43think uh we were affected by what
6:44happened with Terra Luna three arrows
6:47Celsius do you think that kind of
6:50do you think I destroyed a bull market
6:52that was going to continue
6:54I don't think so I think those you think
6:55we were done I think those primarily
6:57were destroyed by the Federal Reserve
6:58raising rates okay like I think all of
7:01at this point all of crypto is uh low
7:05rate you know zero percent rate uh Mal
7:09investment and as soon as people start
7:13um charging to you know loan you money
7:15that's when all these crazy
7:17malinvestments stop making sense so
7:19anything I mean yes the the Luna stuff
7:23the 3ac uh broader crypto is really
7:26reliant on people having way too much uh
7:29cash on hand so that they can make crazy
7:31speculative Investments and that's one
7:34of the primary differences between
7:35crypto and Bitcoin is Bitcoin is another
7:37currency that you can save in for the
7:38long term which is what we're seeing
7:40here a lot of people are saving in it
7:41for the long term whereas 3ac Terra Luna
7:45those are all you know short-term
7:48speculative you know in a lot of ways
7:51Ponzi scheme Celsius
7:53what was interesting about well you know
7:56the Luna stuff is kind of interesting as
7:58well because it's like this was marketed
8:00as a stable coin right so there's a lot
8:02of people out there who are like or
8:03maybe not Luna whatever
8:07uh there's a lot of stable coins out
8:10there and people are kind of interested
8:12in them because they're like oh it's
8:13helping introduce crypto to the broader
8:15world it's helping to give
8:19um you know people without access to the
8:21dollar access to the dollar
8:23and in theory that might be true but in
8:25practice what we see is these stable
8:27coins are anything but stable right
8:29they're centralized entities that have
8:32lots of additional risks so you mean the
8:35algorithmic ones both but even tether as
8:38yeah I mean they they just keep hopping
8:40around to different jurisdictions trying
8:42to find uh a place that they can you
8:44know
8:45issue their tether at some point I think
8:48they're going to get clamped down on
8:50there's like a systemic risk to tether
8:51because it's centralized so at some
8:54point I think they're going to be shut
8:56down and then there's you know your
8:58stable coin is nothing it's not stable
8:59yeah that's a shame because uh Alex
9:02clerstein spends a lot of time
9:04explaining how useful these digital
9:06dollars on a black on a blockchain are
9:09you know and I get it they are useful
9:11but they are also very risky yeah and
9:15I actually think so a lot of people look
9:17at Bitcoin they're like it's very
9:19volatile it's very risky Bitcoin in my
9:21opinion is extremely low risk you know
9:24pretty much exactly what you're getting
9:25you're getting X percentage of 21
9:27million you can hold the keys to your
9:30Bitcoin and you can run a node and
9:32verify and nobody can inflate the supply
9:36so I don't think it's very risky once
9:38you kind of understand what it is how to
9:40use it extremely low risk very high
9:42volatility but I don't think volatility
9:44is necessarily risk on the other side
9:47well that depends on your lifestyle who
9:49you are where you live you know if you
9:51are living in a poor country and you
9:53have very limited money that is a
9:55significant risk to your ability to feed
9:59your family it's not a risk though it's
10:01like it the volatility is maybe not
10:03palatable to you like you shouldn't go
10:05out and slam all your life savings into
10:07this really volatile asset yeah if you
10:09can't handle the volatility of course
10:10but if you understand that there's
10:12volatility then it's no but it presents
10:14you a risk with being able to afford
10:16like the volatility presents a risk to
10:18your ability to afford what you need for
10:19your family it's not that the asset
10:21itself is a risk but the volatility
10:23introduces risk into your life
10:25I think that that's assuming that they
10:28need to have it right now well most yeah
10:32not most I wouldn't know the numbers but
10:34I would expect a large number of people
10:36perhaps billions live hand to mouth yeah
10:39and they're the people we most want to
10:41get out the situation they're in because
10:43they're either living in jurisdictions
10:44with high inflation authoritarian
10:46regimes uh uh restrictions on what they
10:49can do and how they can trade yeah so
10:52they're probably some of the people need
10:53it most definitely but
10:55their ability to start using it and
10:58accepting it and having it in their life
10:59it just there is a risk you know if
11:01you're living hand to mouth and if
11:03you're living in like turkey you've got
11:0480 inflation and your options are like
11:06Bitcoin whatever the currency in Turkey
11:08is the lower is it yeah or the like a US
11:10dollar stable coin like the choice is
11:12pretty obvious yeah I mean in in those
11:14what is it depends what's it what's the
11:16obvious choice if you're living hand to
11:17mouth
11:18so it's the dollar yeah yeah
11:21I think that would make the most sense
11:24for somebody who is experiencing like
11:26hyperinflation right now but again like
11:29that's that's a cohort of people who
11:31have been completely screwed by Central
11:33Banking like the absolute destruction of
11:36civilization in their society is because
11:39of Central Banking destroying the value
11:42of their life savings so like while we
11:46do want to help while Bitcoin can help
11:48these people over the long term the
11:51damage has already kind of been done to
11:52them and so they need an immediate
11:55uh solution right they need something
11:57they can't
11:58find a solution that's going to help
11:59them over 10 years they need to find
12:02food today and tomorrow for their family
12:04and so you have to look at something
12:06else but interestingly enough like the
12:09US dollar right now is experiencing
12:11seriously High inflation right so yeah
12:13even even the dollar is becoming a
12:16riskier and riskier thing to hold
12:17because it's eight percent inflation
12:19that's the official term right in
12:21reality it's double digits yeah it
12:23depends again it depends where you are I
12:24mean the uh the dollar has dropped uh
12:27from 1 38 to the pound so it's 112 I
12:31think today and it got as low as 105. so
12:36um it's a better asset it was a better
12:38asset holder than the pound
12:40the king's pound
12:42I guess as well it depends how quickly
12:44you're turning around your money if you
12:45turn around your money really quickly
12:46Bitcoin volatility doesn't really matter
12:48well so when I was with the crypto
12:50bastardo in Venezuela he holds Bitcoin
12:54and all he does is every week transfers
12:56the amount he needs in Bolivar out and
12:58he would explain to me like he says even
13:00even when the price of Bitcoins drop in
13:02I'm going up in terms of the Bolivar
13:04because inflation is so high so there
13:06are scenarios to work through it sure um
13:09but I think I think from a high level
13:12perspective like the whole global
13:14economy think of it as the Titanic right
13:17uh it's starting to break apart and
13:20there's parts that have already broken
13:21off in our sinking and then there's a
13:23few people kind of left and there's this
13:25life raft called Bitcoin and uh you're
13:27in like a stormy choppy sea and Bitcoins
13:30very volatile and it's bouncing all over
13:31the place for the people who are still
13:33on the ship like that might be a good
13:34option or you should start exploring the
13:37life raft for the people who are already
13:38sinking like
13:40I don't know you have to figure out your
13:42hand to mouth at that point like you're
13:44scrambling it's a different situation so
13:45that's
13:46you know while I really want Bitcoin to
13:49and I think Bitcoin will deliver
13:50property rights and value to all 8
13:52billion people in the world but it's not
13:54gonna solve all their problems today and
13:57what we can do is people who still have
13:59resources who are still able to uh save
14:03in it should start saving in it because
14:05that's when um you can actually protect
14:06your purchasing power and avoid syncing
14:08did you see the Bangladesh news today no
14:11search for Bangladesh blackouts this is
14:14[ __ ] crazy
14:16I think this is just another signal
14:19because when you said the the Titanic
14:21it's starting to break apart you wait
14:23till you see this most Bangladesh left
14:26without power after the National Grid
14:27failure so large waves of Bangladesh
14:30were left without electricity on Tuesday
14:31of a partial grid failure government
14:33official said adding the authorities
14:35work to gradually restore power to the
14:37country of 168 million people
14:4075 to 80 of Bangladesh appear experience
14:44blackouts
14:45uh I and I think it was because the
14:48problem there in sporting actual gas and
14:51the increase in the price of natural gas
14:52wow I mean Bangladesh is a poor country
14:54can afford it that's like a whole
14:55country going offline of a population
14:59over doubled you can obviously
15:00population UK 72 million yeah that's
15:03more than double the population of the
15:05UK it's going [ __ ] offline yeah it
15:07says here 96 million people lost power
15:09that's more than the UK that's insane I
15:12think Bitcoin has really taught me two
15:14very important lessons one don't [ __ ]
15:16with the money two don't [ __ ] with the
15:18energy yes it's crazy to me that in 2022
15:22we have entire countries of 100 plus
15:25million people in the darkness when
15:28electricity was invented or discovered
15:30you know
15:31over 100 years ago I think in what the
15:331800s 1700s maybe 1800s maybe and we've
15:36been innovating since then but over the
15:39last maybe a few decades I feel like
15:40we've gotten significantly worse at
15:43energy production and power delivery and
15:46so on well what would Ben say that is
15:48where would he where would he go and
15:50point on a chart I can guess which year
15:521971 yeah ah he would go and point to
15:551971 but like quite interestingly it was
15:57Elon Musk who came out and said well we
16:00went to the moon in 1968 we've not been
16:02back and I don't know the what year did
16:04you go to the we didn't go you didn't
16:06invite us yeah you guys weren't invited
16:07that makes sense yeah we didn't go I've
16:09seen what you guys do at stag news we
16:12probably sent a probe up to the moon at
16:15some point with the with our German
16:18friends or something the last mission
16:19was 1972. yeah 1972 and but also people
16:23rightly pointed out uh when when was
16:26Concord when did Concord launch 80s
16:30I don't know I know introduce 76. 1976
16:33of Concord was introduced two years
16:35before I was born and I'm an old [ __ ]
16:39um and we haven't had like they
16:42decommissioned them after the French the
16:44Air France one crashed in was it in the
16:46UK it was in Paris it was going to the
16:48UK that was it weird plane to get from I
16:51take about three minutes
16:53um but yeah so they decommissioned them
16:55and we haven't had a uh super selling a
16:58check since it's crazy we're going
17:00backwards in a lot of ways we are and
17:03at the same time we're seeing uh
17:05inequality around the world increase and
17:08we're seeing power centralize yep and I
17:11think that's the Fiat system so don't
17:14[ __ ] with the money don't [ __ ] with the
17:15energy don't [ __ ] with the food as well
17:17yeah that's energy
17:19human energy yeah yeah I guess so
17:22um now I completely agree with you I
17:24mean we are I've never known a time like
17:26this in the UK it's
17:28it's weird and a little bit scary
17:31um just seeing what people are facing in
17:32terms of their energy costs how we can
17:35suddenly go from a point where people's
17:37energies bills a thousand pound a year
17:39to five thousand pound a year which
17:41would be for some people 50 of their
17:43income yeah to just be able to do that
17:46in a matter of month it's super scary
17:47there's nothing like that has ever
17:48happened in mind I can't remember
17:49anything like that it's a travesty it's
17:51it's basic uh basic things to power your
17:56Society right literally to power it like
17:59you need to have the lights on to have
18:01functional hospitals you need to have
18:03lights on to stay warm in the winter
18:05just basic necessities
18:08and issues that we've solved 100 plus
18:11years ago are rearing their ugly hand
18:14head again as
18:17the currencies start breaking down well
18:19there's a there's a second layer to that
18:20as well because there's the lack of
18:22innovation say with nuclear I think most
18:24people are generally agreed that
18:26um the decommission of nuclear plants a
18:28lack of investment in nuclear plants Was
18:29Naive uh the green lobby was allowed to
18:33um
18:33uh essentially uh petition for these you
18:36know this kind of anti-nuclear
18:39um agenda uh following Fukushima and you
18:42know various other things so I think
18:44that's one thing but another thing in
18:46the UK is that we sold off
18:49all our energy to the free market to be
18:51developed and whether or not you are uh
18:54believe in the nation state it is useful
18:57for a nation state to have energy
18:58security I mean the US kind of has it
19:01because you produce a lot of oil we
19:03don't produce a lot of oil we produce
19:05some we don't really have energy
19:06security we're buying all our energy
19:08from across Europe at the moment yeah
19:09what do you mean when you say that the
19:11UK sold off their energy to the yeah so
19:14so I we import a lot of our energy yeah
19:16that's just the way it is we have like
19:18what three nuclear plants
19:20is it one in the Hinckley there's one in
19:23seller field as well yeah like we have
19:25like three nuclear plants we we don't
19:27you know we used to produce most of our
19:29energy I think it was coal based yeah
19:31but as we closed down the yeah rightly
19:34so because
19:35coal is the disgusting and it could have
19:37been replaced with nuclear it's called
19:38more disgusting than freezing
19:41yeah but what I'm saying is there was
19:43there's there was no need to have to
19:44make that trade-off it you know if
19:46you're gonna if you're gonna close down
19:48your coal plants or replace them with
19:49nuclear that makes sense it's cleaner
19:51but who was closing down the coal plants
19:53and and like who was selling it I mean
19:55was it these private companies or was it
19:57oh there's a government no it's a
19:58government does the government closed
20:00down all the mines in there it wasn't
20:01under like I mean I don't know much
20:03about this yeah it's the I mean the same
20:04thing as like the Dutch uh Farmers right
20:06now right it's like the Dutch government
20:08is saying oh we want to we gotta cut
20:10nitrogen to meet these X Y and Z climate
20:12goals and uh
20:15it's not the farmers that are saying hey
20:17we need to really cut nitrogen they're
20:18saying hey we can't produce enough food
20:19now and so we're gonna go on strike so
20:21it's the same thing it sounds similar to
20:23me in the UK you guys had energy
20:25security and then some bureaucrat
20:28decided in order to meet or achieve some
20:32goals which in hindsight probably were
20:35not achieved we're going to shut down
20:37the production of energy and X Y or Z
20:39fashion because it's you know it's not
20:41fashionable today and Marty Ben would
20:42say those [ __ ] Central planners and
20:44he's right and now someone's being paid
20:45to per to pause the closure what's this
20:48closure of coal Power Station set to be
20:50delayed oh so we've still got Coal Power
20:52to present UK blackouts they're probably
20:54spinning up coal at this point probably
20:56they probably are yeah they probably are
20:59um what I what I've also kind of
21:00realized or the way I think about energy
21:03is
21:05while we might not personally like one
21:08form of energy production over the other
21:11the pricing mechanism typically does a
21:14really good job of demonstrating or
21:16elevating the type of energy that is the
21:18most efficient so what Bitcoin uh has
21:22taught me in Bitcoin mining in
21:24particular is that Bitcoin mining is
21:26actually a component of the energy
21:28production industry to help make energy
21:30production as efficient as possible and
21:33that is the most environmentally
21:36friendly if we're producing
21:38energy efficiently
21:41than we are not wasting anything right
21:43it's not inefficient
21:45um and the pricing system typically does
21:47a good job of demonstrating which is the
21:49most efficient which is the cheapest so
21:52even though but not the most
21:54environmentally friendly uh I do think
21:56it is the most environmentally friendly
21:58because
22:00if it's really expensive to produce this
22:02energy then you have a lot of external
22:04inputs going into it you have teams of
22:06scientists you have all kinds of
22:08manufacturing and different production
22:09facilities you have many orders of
22:11effects Beyond just the actual burning
22:14of the coal whatever you you mean the
22:17whole supply chain to allow absolutely
22:19right but there's different but there's
22:21different types of uh ways you can
22:24measure environmental friendliness so
22:26for example if you are one of those
22:29people that believes which I can't
22:30believe I've been saying about this but
22:32uh increasing carbon in the atmosphere
22:34is you know uh will warm the planet and
22:37leads to a change in climate which I do
22:39believe
22:41um that may be it may be preferable to
22:44have something that has leads to more
22:45e-waste rather than increasing carbon in
22:48the atmosphere both are environmental
22:50issues he waste is an environmental
22:52issue
22:53um carbon is an environmental issue but
22:55you might have a preference over one
22:56because you know E-Waste okay might be
22:58preferable to bury E-Waste or looking to
23:01recycling over increasing carbon in the
23:03atmosphere which has potentially
23:05catastrophic effects but you're assuming
23:07that the production of the E-Waste
23:09doesn't increase the carbon in the
23:10atmosphere yeah so if you want to go
23:11like full like yeah you but you have to
23:15like map out the entire supply chain
23:16yeah and that's a lot of work that's why
23:18we have to think from first principles
23:19yeah we have to think about what's a
23:21signal that we can use to actually tell
23:25us what is the most efficient form of
23:26energy production it's typically what is
23:29the most what is the cheapest what is
23:30the most affordable
23:32I would want to know if someone's
23:33actually done the work that correlates
23:36uh the the price of energy production
23:39with the total or the the percentage of
23:43uh increase of carbon well I think that
23:45there's a lot of people who have done a
23:47lot of work on that and they have come
23:49to decide that you know and I'm not
23:51trying to pick on any one form of energy
23:52yeah but say like coal and gas and oil
23:55are bad and solar winds nuclear Etc et
24:00cetera are good
24:01but the problem is since Central
24:05planners have pushed us towards One
24:06Direction
24:07now we have people who are spending a
24:10majority of their income trying to heat
24:11their home
24:13so there's unintended outcomes to any
24:16sort of like centralized planning that
24:18pushes you in one direction or another
24:19when the market is trying to tell you
24:21hey actually right now natural gas is
24:24the most efficient way to power our
24:25homes or oil or
24:28hydropower I'm not trying to pick one or
24:30the other but just saying that the
24:31pricing mechanism when there's no
24:33subsidies involved does a really good
24:35job of telling people this is the most
24:37efficient type of energy that we can be
24:39using today sure I'm still not buying
24:40the the price dictates there's a
24:43correlation with carbon on the price on
24:45the entire well I just needs I need a
24:46receipt we can look at we can we can and
24:49this is maybe the Austrian uh economic
24:53style of thinking and I consider myself
24:55a student of Austrian economics but if
24:59you if you think about this scenario of
25:01a Bitcoin miner right you have an Asic
25:04chip
25:05you want to go you want to be profitable
25:07you want to earn Bitcoin you need to go
25:09find the cheapest form of energy right
25:11so the cheapest form of energy is where
25:13you plug in your minor and you're
25:14profitable even if you have a chip
25:16that's you know an S9 which is like five
25:17years old at this point uh
25:20and so I do think that
25:22Bitcoin is a really good uh
25:26it's a good teacher it tells us okay
25:27this right now is the most efficient way
25:30that we can be capturing energy so it's
25:33like
25:34um
25:35you know before China banned Bitcoin
25:37mining the miners were migrating with
25:41the the Rainy Seasons because China had
25:43these massive hydroelectric dams that
25:45during the Rainy seasons were way over
25:48producing electricity they were just
25:50wasting energy that they had captured
25:52and Bitcoin helps us to actually capture
25:55that energy monetize it so that these
25:57companies can invest in more efficient
25:59energy production so yeah I just think
26:02that the pricing mechanism does the best
26:03job of demonstrating what's the most
26:05efficient no I agree with that but I
26:07fundamentally agree with that I just
26:08don't think it correlates to carbon in
26:11the atmosphere I just think it's the
26:13cheapest to produce
26:14I think it correlates the carbon in the
26:16atmosphere because again the people who
26:19are working on the other types of energy
26:22nuclear like it might take 50 000 people
26:25working 10 years to build one nuclear
26:29plant how much carbon have all those
26:31people been off-putting for 10 years
26:33before we can now turn on our nuclear
26:36plant and start seeing Zero carbon
26:38emissions
26:39like it's nothing exists in a bubble no
26:42of course but like somebody has to do
26:44the work there has to be receipts for
26:45this otherwise it's speculation like if
26:47there are no receipts for this or
26:48somebody's done the work the pricing
26:50mechanism is the receipt dude do you
26:53understand what I'm saying here Danny I
26:55do understand but I think I think you're
26:57talking at Cross purposes on some of
26:58this because I think like Phil's point
27:00is if you charge a Tesla from like an
27:02electricity that's generated by Cold
27:04power plant like what you're really
27:05doing right no no no no a bunch of heavy
27:08metals you've like Tesla employs you
27:10know 100 000 people and they've been
27:12engineering these cars for a decade
27:15and then you plug it in like
27:18yeah but no no I understand what you
27:20what you're saying is that the when
27:22people are looking at the energy mix and
27:24looking at Green energy they aren't
27:26considering the entire supply chain okay
27:28but or the outcome even I would say like
27:32the outcome is is where is what we're
27:34stuck with right now where we have a
27:36global energy crisis Bangladesh was left
27:38without power for 168 million people and
27:42I imagine you know I'm not familiar with
27:43Bangladeshi energy policies but I
27:46imagine that they're playing the same
27:47game as many of the other countries are
27:49which is trying to go One Direction or
27:51another right but sorry but the thing
27:53I'm not buying is is the lowest price
27:56uh most efficient energy production is
27:58the one that produces the least carbon
28:00like where is the correlation
28:03I think it gets even more confused when
28:05you add in like government grants and
28:07subsidies of course but but again we're
28:10confused the the question I'm asking is
28:13how does the uh efficiency of production
28:17dictate the
28:20um the level of carbon that's produced I
28:21don't see the correlation yeah I don't I
28:23don't think that there's a way so I
28:25don't think any carbon measures are
28:26accurate today
28:28first of all like because how do you
28:29actually so I was thinking about this uh
28:32the other day there was a which club it
28:34measures any of them
28:36when a company says I'm carbon neutral
28:40like what does your company do how many
28:42people does your company employ like if
28:44you're making if you're Manufacturing
28:48plastic toys right like our company was
28:53built to manufacture plastic toys can
28:55anything you ever do be carbon neutral
28:59so it's like all these you can you can
29:01buy carbon offsets but your whole
29:03company was established to manufacture
29:05plastic widgets which produce carbon
29:07which you try to sell to people like
29:10this whole I think this whole scheme of
29:12trying to measure carbon output is
29:15um it's a it's a racket it's in a lot of
29:17ways like a [ __ ] coin like carbon energy
29:19uh
29:20credits like you can't accurately
29:23measure that and it's totally dependent
29:26on what your industry is and then that's
29:29also subjective like maybe I don't think
29:32that
29:33uh this plastic
29:36you know toy company should exist but
29:39they're selling a ton of plastic toys to
29:41kids who are very happy and it's
29:43improving their lives and so who am I to
29:45say this plastic toy company is
29:48you know producing a bunch of excess
29:51carbon that we don't need like it's all
29:52subjective no I I think I think you're
29:54right the measurement is very difficult
29:56and and setting what should and
29:59shouldn't be done is totally subjective
30:00I agree with you that I mean we have the
30:02same experience as a Bitcoin now where
30:03people talk about the uh the energy use
30:06of Bitcoin and then you know rightly so
30:08I Bitcoin say uh Christmas trees
30:11well the I think the biggest irony to me
30:14there is I truly believe that there is
30:17nothing better for the environment than
30:21humans adopting a form of money that
30:24encourages them to save instead of over
30:26consume I agree like yeah I love it over
30:29consumption and is the cause of lots of
30:34additional waste and malinvestment and
30:36again that's the subject that's my
30:37opinion
30:38but what I've noticed with myself is
30:40when I started saving in a form of money
30:42that can't be debased and actually
30:44increases in value over time I'm a lot
30:46less likely to go out and buy a second
30:49jet ski you know I'm happy with my one
30:51jet ski I don't need another jet ski
30:54you do what are we gonna write oh [ __ ]
30:57you should have had three jet skis I'll
30:58get you guys one of those uh one of
31:00those like try tricycle powered uh have
31:03you got have you got a jet ski not yet
31:05I'll probably go pick one up after this
31:07though because that sounds fun you guys
31:09want to go later should we go after this
31:12kid uh yeah I mean I think we're going
31:16to talk about this today but uh um it's
31:18quite interesting
31:19um we had Nate Harmon on the other day
31:22yeah uh great guy uh one of his jobs is
31:25to go up to one of the mountains uh in
31:28Hawaii and take the measurements and
31:31unambiguously
31:33the carbon is increasing in the
31:35atmosphere at a massive rate
31:36and he's measuring this
31:39at the top of a volcano no no no but
31:42there's a there's a really good reason
31:43to yeah like yeah any it's like the high
31:46who's saying it's the highest mountain
31:46in the world like if you measure from
31:48the sea floor or whatever yeah and and
31:50he goes to the top of the mountain so
31:51he's out of any kind of like
31:53contaminated wind from LA or whatever it
31:55might be so it was like a point to it
31:57and his peers around the world are doing
31:58the same sure and it's unambiguous that
32:01the amount of carbon in the atmosphere
32:02is increasing
32:03um I almost find the point that anyone
32:05who wants to argue against that must be
32:07being paid by somebody because uh the
32:10the scientific regions are there and
32:12he's also uh unambiguous in his point
32:14that if you increase carbon in the
32:16atmosphere you uh increase warming and
32:18you talk through the entire science of
32:19why
32:20uh the planet warms way retains heat and
32:23if you retain heat then there are
32:25consequences of that yeah people on the
32:27planet
32:28for me like the
32:31this is unambiguous sure but what we do
32:35about it or whether we do anything about
32:37it I think is a fair area for discussion
32:39and debate you know I agree with that
32:41accepts team the rapid reduction in
32:43fossil fuels has severe consequences
32:47um but I do think also not having some
32:49kind of transition to less carbon
32:51intensive energy sources will also have
32:54other consequences that are very hard to
32:56predict but could we could be quite
32:58severe depending on your social economic
33:01situation and I I think
33:04we've got ourselves in a position where
33:06people argue one end and not the other
33:08end we kind of need to meet in the
33:09middle and like find the answers to
33:10these issues
33:12um but we certainly there will be
33:13consequences if we continue increasing
33:16the burner fossil fuels for decades
33:18ahead
33:20I subscribe to the Bitcoin astronomy
33:23perspective of energy production which
33:26is that I want humans to be able to
33:28harness the power of our star the sun
33:31and so that we can go interplanetary and
33:33settle the solar system and in order for
33:36us to get there we're going to have to
33:37harness and generate and capture orders
33:40and orders and Orders of magnitude more
33:42energy than we're already producing and
33:45capturing today
33:46so I think getting there
33:49uh we will have so much Innovation like
33:52once we start harnessing additional
33:54energy at levels beyond what we can even
33:56comprehend today uh the amount of
33:58innovation that we're going to be able
34:00to produce will be you know it's
34:02unknowable but also massive and I do
34:05think that this that this effort of
34:08harnessing more energy
34:11will actually help us to solve these
34:13problems that we're having with carbon
34:15in the atmosphere if you believe that
34:16that's like something that we can solve
34:18you're talking about type two
34:19civilizations oh yeah Kardashian type
34:21two but the Kardashian scale the
34:23Kardashians yeah we did it the other day
34:26do you know how high that scale goes up
34:28to uh I think it's three right no oh
34:31really oh we're gonna blow your mind in
34:32a minute oh god well I think it does go
34:34up to three but some [ __ ] cook on the
34:36internet has made it go up slight 20 or
34:37so no no it got up to 35. and then it
34:40went to I and then brain we've got to
34:43show you this this shit's wild no I
34:45think the Kardashian scale goes up to a
34:47six now does it yeah but heads up to
34:49Chloe I think
34:52but I think like Nate would 100 agree
34:55with that like and his point is that the
34:57ocean it harnessed like I think you said
34:5940 of the harness 40 of the world's
35:02total energy from the ocean
35:04um and and the other thing that is like
35:06kind of to your point is I don't know if
35:07you said it on the show or when we were
35:08hanging out after but he was like I
35:10don't give like in some ways he doesn't
35:11give a [ __ ] about arguing with these
35:13people he just wants to beat them at
35:14Market because he can offer cheaper
35:15energy yes yes and and that's like
35:19by harnessing and producing
35:21significantly more energy we're driving
35:23down energy costs we're becoming more
35:25efficient at energy and like if he can
35:28produce uh you know an order of
35:30magnitude more energy by harnessing the
35:32ocean and it doesn't directly offset
35:35carbon although the research and
35:36development in order to get to the point
35:38where you can
35:39harness the ocean's energy is going to
35:41produce carbon then that's great because
35:44Humanity wins we we have more energy
35:47it's cheaper we don't have to spend half
35:48of our life savings on warming our home
35:51in the winter and we don't have 168
35:53million people in Bangladesh without the
35:55lights on right like this is a positive
35:57outcome so like harnessing more energy
35:59should be or in my opinion is a very
36:02Noble goal for people to be doing yeah I
36:04know yeah and and one of the things that
36:07was never really clear to me until you
36:09one of those things you don't you're not
36:10clear until you see it right you never I
36:12never really thought about uh the impact
36:14of energy prices on the economy because
36:16we've always had stable Energy prices
36:17I've never had to think about uh the
36:20impact of having a volatile currency
36:21until I went to a country and saw it
36:23right yeah I mean our British pound [ __ ]
36:26coin is you know decimated over like 300
36:29years as it existed but it's relatively
36:31stable year to year two percent
36:33inflation you barely notice it right
36:35even eight percent inflation is annoying
36:38but like survivable it's only when you
36:40go to someone like Venezuela and you you
36:42see you literally see what the impact is
36:44for hyperinflation you realize it's a
36:46different world
36:47slightly increase in Energy prices you
36:49don't really think about it when you
36:51suddenly see a massive increase in the
36:52energy prices as people can't get to
36:54work or yeah the example I gave the
36:57other day was this Bakery this Bakery a
36:59centralized bakery that uh based goods
37:01for a number of cafes but they also had
37:03three of their own cafes the energy
37:04prices went so high that they couldn't
37:06afford to keep the cafes open so they
37:08only have the centralized place now so
37:09they just instantly had to close down
37:11three businesses now other companies
37:13have a choice they swallow the cost
37:14which they can only do for a certain
37:16period or they increase their prices
37:17prices go up more inflation so the the
37:21impact of energy on the economy on the
37:24productivity of the economy and GDP was
37:26never something I thought about until
37:28till now and now I realize yes
37:30absolutely we need to produce as much
37:32cheap energy in the world as possible to
37:34make people as productive as possible to
37:37lift themselves out of poverty and Alex
37:38Epstein actually says that yeah and he's
37:40he's [ __ ] right well when when you
37:42lift yourself out of poverty then you
37:45have the ability to spend more time on
37:47solving bigger issues right if eight
37:51billion people around the world are
37:52struggling to feed their families
37:55tomorrow like we can't actually solve
37:57the larger issues of the world right
38:00like if we if you think that uh we can
38:03actually solve this carbon issue without
38:05either making it worse or destroying the
38:07planet then we have to be able to like
38:10heat our homes and have our basic needs
38:12taken care of so that it's like a higher
38:13order uh problem to solve I think the
38:15blip in this uh time is is the the
38:19nuclear problem I think if we to
38:21continue to develop nuclear and think
38:23continue to expand nuclear I don't think
38:25this would all of this would ever have
38:27been an issue but I think it is I mean
38:29we found out the other day what 54
38:31nuclear plants in France yeah 32 in a
38:34state of disrepair I don't know if
38:36they're in a state of Japan they're just
38:37down for maintenance but I mean there's
38:39a lot that means a lot and it all at
38:40once it seems if a nuclear plant is down
38:42from maintenance that's in a state of
38:44just for them
38:45and if there's 32 or the 54 that
38:48suggests that something's been neglected
38:50if you ask me but to me that is the blip
38:52in all of this
38:54um you know I we should be largely
38:56Beyond fossil fuels for I think
38:58providing energy to the grid yes it's
39:01yeah we've needed it for cars and planes
39:04and we probably never replace it for
39:05planes
39:06but you know the US just launched uh an
39:09aircraft carrier that was that's a
39:11nuclear
39:12uh aircraft carrier so we've harnessed
39:14the paranuclear in vehicles as well as
39:17yeah so that's like the perfect example
39:20of where uh like like we we've invested
39:25you know decades and decades and decades
39:27into producing a warship powered by
39:30nuclear energy yeah like the carbon
39:33output of that
39:36like war machine is astronomical and
39:41like now now that we have this gigantic
39:44ship that's running on nuclear like is
39:46that good for the environment like no
39:48why why not
39:50because it's it's a it's a machine of
39:53War it's it's you know difficult I mean
39:55the machine specifically I'm talking
39:56about the just the carbon output of an
39:59aircraft carrier that is uh that is
40:01powered by I want fewer aircraft
40:02carriers no of course of course but I'm
40:04all I'm talking about is the fact that
40:06they've harnessed the energy of nuclear
40:07power to power that like which by the
40:10way always wears me out as well because
40:12you're You Know You're Made To Fear
40:14nuclear but you can actually power
40:16um an aircraft carrier or a submarine
40:18with nuclear power but the point is it's
40:20like we've harnessed these Technologies
40:22and now we've just kind of like let them
40:24go and we're in this you know situation
40:25now which is
40:28currency collapse is a real [ __ ] energy
40:30collapse is a real [ __ ]
40:32currency is what coordinates the
40:34extraction of energy and right now uh
40:37the energy is it's we're not extracting
40:40it yeah harnessing it very well and
40:41we're blowing up pipelines which
40:42distribute Energy across Europe
40:45um uh but an energy crisis and a
40:47currency crisis at the same time is
40:50quite the [ __ ] mix well I you know
40:52Bitcoin it's money and its energy at the
40:55same time it's it's the marriage of the
40:57two energy money right yeah and so I
41:00think maybe uh regardless of how your
41:04currency is secured
41:07your currency is always a form of energy
41:10it's always like the output of
41:13delivering value of human energy in
41:15action you should save that value that
41:18you've produced in a form of money and
41:20regardless of how that money is saved or
41:23secured like energy has always been
41:25expended to achieve it yeah I don't want
41:27to let you off completely on this um
41:29fossil fuels thing yeah I do just want
41:31to finish off because
41:32it is an evolving understanding that
41:34people are having that certain people
41:36have brought new information to the
41:37table but
41:38um I think the unknown area is that if
41:41we continue to burn fossil fuels as we
41:44are and we continue to increase a carbon
41:46in the atmosphere what are the
41:48consequences before we transition away
41:50from that we are seeing the consequences
41:53of an increase in carbon the atmosphere
41:54the planet is warming up quicker than it
41:56would and I know some people say it's
41:57always been warming no it's not warmed
42:00at the rate it's warming now and there
42:01are consequences for that we've we don't
42:03fully know the impact of that now the
42:04those have catastrophized it I've
42:07obviously
42:09um they've not done a great PR job for
42:11what that you know the cause they're
42:13trying to support
42:14but there are significant risks of a
42:16massive increase for Mormon there are
42:18significant risks of increasing sea
42:19levels I mean we do have an increase in
42:21sea levels and there is a significant
42:23increase to people living in coastal
42:25regions but we don't know that we don't
42:28know when these consequences here it
42:29might not be us it might be my
42:31grandchildren that suddenly hit with a
42:33different scenario sure we don't know
42:35these and I think I think it's only
42:37right
42:38for the smart right intelligent people
42:41who aren't being lobbied just do the
42:43right research on what will be the
42:45impact on the environment if we do
42:47continue to increase carbon in the
42:49atmosphere because that's the bit we've
42:50always struggled to find good data on
42:53there's good models on
42:55on
42:56um
42:56the changes in temperature if we
42:58continue into increase carbon but
43:00nobody's on any particular good work on
43:03the impact of that that's the bit I've
43:05struggled to find
43:07the way I think about it is [ __ ] them no
43:11uh I think that this it very well could
43:15be uh a crisis or a real problem
43:18we don't know how it will manifest we
43:21don't know when it will manifest I've
43:23Heard lots of predictions over the years
43:24that have proven to be false
43:27what we do know for certain is what
43:29happens when you try to push a
43:32civilization to a form of energy that
43:35isn't as reliable quickly we have
43:38evidence and certainty
43:41about how societies collapse and the
43:44suffering that it causes yes
43:46we think that there will be a problem in
43:49the future
43:49right
43:52we have certainty if you move off of
43:54fossil fuels today and you try to go
43:56full wind solar whatever
44:00like you're gonna be in the darkness in
44:02like Bangladesh
44:05we believe that there might be a problem
44:06in the future it's just like it's like
44:07an unwinnable situation I think what we
44:10can do is try to remove what I would say
44:13is remove all the subsidies
44:15get a real market price well first of
44:18all hold on even for oil hold on first
44:20of all set back
44:22foundationally reset the entire global
44:24economy on a sound money okay step one
44:27then when we have real prices again
44:29because we don't have real prices right
44:31now our prices of everything are heavily
44:33heavily manipulated by what Jerome
44:35Powell is feeling uh in on a given day
44:39once we have real prices you'll be able
44:40to see what is the most efficient way to
44:43produce energy
44:44we will produce energy that way and the
44:48people who are the most profitable at
44:49producing energy will have additional
44:51resources to invest in getting more
44:54efficient at producing energy right
44:57Bitcoin mining helps us get there
44:59because
45:01any excess energy that's generated you
45:04can just mine right
45:06offload to the Bitcoin Network
45:08um
45:10so yeah that's that's kind of my my my
45:12strategy here is uh first of all rip out
45:15the Frankenstein Financial system with a
45:18bunch of different 100 whatever
45:20different currencies that are all
45:21collapsing replace it with sound money
45:23yes
45:25we have real pricing mechanism so we can
45:27see now with much greater Clarity what's
45:30the most efficient way to produce energy
45:32invest in that
45:34you should go and get Jerome Pyle's job
45:36yeah you know I I should just call him
45:39up if you have a massive objection on
45:41this right okay so do you think do you
45:43think if we
45:45um
45:45replace the the world's Global
45:47currencies on sound money yes and have
45:50proper accurate pricing
45:52uh do you believe there for what is the
45:54role of the state in this or is it see
45:56you later no we have to have an entity
45:59that has a monopoly on violence like
46:01there must be wow okay absolutely okay
46:05no no I'll tell you why this is
46:07interesting because uh you didn't let me
46:10finish but okay no no actually it's just
46:12no because this debate hasn't really
46:13come up and I've wanted to hear this
46:15because certain people would argue that
46:18it's morally wrong for someone an entity
46:20to have the Monopoly on violence
46:22but I've also had the argument that
46:24somebody has a monopoly on violence
46:25there is less violence
46:28so the way that I think about it is uh
46:31so first of all the way that governments
46:33work today is out of control yes
46:36um they're way too large and they're way
46:39too
46:40um abstracted away from like the local
46:42your local community so they're in my
46:45opinion there's certainly you need to
46:47have some form of protection
46:50um and I don't subscribe to the 100
46:53Homesteader self-sovereign Mountain Man
46:56out in the woods method because
47:00um
47:01Society is formed through humans
47:06cooperating and the sum is greater or
47:10the the whole is greater than the sum of
47:12the parts like when people get together
47:13and
47:16collaborate and cooperate we produce
47:18something that is way more impressive
47:20and better than any single individual
47:24can produce so we need hierarchy
47:27what you need to have in order to
47:29maintain the peace in a civilization is
47:32some entity that uh that yeah
47:36it basically it it's the just a justice
47:39system you need to have laws you need to
47:41have people who enforce those laws and
47:44you need to have consequences for
47:46breaking the laws
47:48um so I do believe that that
47:50civilizations have historically formed
47:53in this way because it's the best way to
47:55form a civilization we've never built a
47:57society on top of a sound money which I
48:00think
48:01will really change the dynamic like the
48:04communities will all be much more local
48:05politics will be much more local and
48:09um
48:09I don't think we've had close to a
48:11society Beyond us our money when we had
48:13the gold standard that's close but gold
48:16is but we understand the difference in
48:17productivity and the accuracy we're
48:19pricing when we did have a gold standard
48:21I would say that we didn't have sound
48:24money so gold is not a sound money
48:27um it's close it was the best that was
48:29available but it's not sound because
48:31it's physical and we have it has an
48:34unknown total Supply so if you think
48:36about money
48:37as a ruler like money is a tool that
48:40allows you to store and communicate
48:42value it allows you to measure the value
48:44of your output and purchase goods and
48:46services which is the output of others
48:48right it's like a it's a tool we've
48:51never had a tool that is an accurate
48:53measurement of output until Bitcoin
48:56because Bitcoin has a supply of 21
48:58million it's fixed it's set oh no no
49:00even gold we're just saying we had
49:02closer to it we could we could yeah even
49:04though it wasn't a sound money system it
49:07was closer to a sound money system and
49:09again Ben Prentiss will point to 1971
49:11and he will say look at the difference
49:13look what happened when look at what
49:15happened when we came off the gold
49:16standard so we all we've done is get
49:18further away from her well the problem
49:20yeah and that's like coming off of the
49:23gold standard is an inevitability with
49:25gold because it's physical and because
49:28it has an unknown total Supply you can't
49:30verify how much gold you have and you're
49:33centralized well it centralizes yes
49:35because it doesn't scale for a global
49:37whole society like we can't uh travel to
49:41different solar systems on gold using
49:44gold as our money like we can't travel
49:46to different planets even because it's
49:47you can't lug around like piles of gold
49:50you keep dipping into grooves I've just
49:52been I've just been thinking about space
49:54recently yeah I love Drew's articles
49:56great yeah
49:58um
49:58okay fine so we how how do we
50:03re-establish on no hold on where were we
50:05you were in the middle of something you
50:07were asking Phil about like what the
50:09society he envisions would be yeah so
50:11the Monopoly and violence yeah so yeah I
50:14mean uh a lot of uh
50:18Austrian thinkers have written about the
50:21role of government in a society mises
50:24wrote a lot about that and I I really I
50:28think it's I think it's correct I think
50:30first of all from the first principle of
50:31like you know the the ultimate sovereign
50:35individual just cannot
50:37produce as much value as a collection of
50:40people working together yes so
50:42civilizations grew because it's more
50:44efficient it's better it delivers more
50:46prosperity and uh human nature is such
50:50that
50:52if you can cheat you will cheat maybe
50:55not a given individual but in a
50:58collection of individuals somebody is
50:59going to take a shortcut somewhere
51:02um and so I do think that you need to
51:04have rule of law and you need to have a
51:06system of government I again I just
51:08think like this uh federal system around
51:10the world or these Federal systems are
51:13hugely inefficient they're bloated and
51:17they don't work very well anymore and
51:19the only reason that they're sustained
51:21is because uh they have the power of the
51:23printing press so that's that's my two
51:25two SATs on that like there will be
51:27government it'll be much more local uh
51:29the the local governments will be or the
51:32local civilizations will be much more
51:34prosperous I mean I completely agree
51:36with you
51:37um
51:38but there are a lot of people in Bitcoin
51:39who wouldn't agree with you and don't
51:41agree with you uh Jack mizuko would say
51:43millions of people uh interact with each
51:46other voluntary every day and we do not
51:49need any form of Monopoly on violence
51:51uh I mean I think that's a that's also a
51:54perspective like I can't
51:56I mean if he feels that way then that's
51:58that's kind of Giacomo's perspective I
52:00just think like
52:01you you
52:03have to pay someone for security or you
52:06have to secure yourself and I don't
52:08subscribe to the mountain man you know
52:11in the woods like with a huge Arsenal
52:13and homesteading like it's just not the
52:16society I want to live in I want to live
52:18in a nice Community where I can trust my
52:20neighbors and like uh yeah maybe I can
52:23defend myself but on the whole like we
52:26have to hire somebody to defend us
52:28because I can't specialize in defense I
52:31need to specialize in you know helping
52:32people hold their keys like
52:35that's the division of labor and I think
52:38that that's what civilization's built on
52:40so yeah I would happily pay somebody for
52:43uh protection so how fundamental to this
52:46is 21 million
52:48it's everything yeah so uh it's it's the
52:52reason that we're here talking today
52:55um Bitcoin
52:57is the discovery of digital scarcity
53:00it's the dis it's the permanent solution
53:03to this idea of inflation or printing
53:05money the unfortunate side effect of
53:08Bitcoin is that people who don't
53:11understand that the Innovation was
53:13removing the printing press from the
53:15hands of everyone view it as oh now I
53:18can become a central Banker right so the
53:21broader crypto scene is people who want
53:24to be their own Central bankers
53:26Bitcoin and bitcoiners are the people
53:29who understand that we've got to
53:31separate money production from the hands
53:34of any given an individual
53:36uh so that we can all use this neutral
53:39currency and it can accurately store
53:41value over time
53:43and it's a non-negotiable for you we
53:45know 21 million is non-negotiable so the
53:48I wrote a couple articles a few years
53:49ago about this and the reason I wrote uh
53:52these articles was really a few few
53:54reasons like first of all
53:56a lot of crypto marketers
53:59will compare their currency
54:02their currency's inflation rate to
54:04bitcoin's inflation rate because every
54:0710 minutes 6.25 Bitcoin are released
54:10through the process of of processing
54:12transactions which we call mining
54:15that categorization is totally wrong
54:17like Bitcoin does not have inflation
54:19Bitcoin has a supply of 21 million that
54:23is released on a fixed schedule that we
54:25can all verify on our home computers so
54:28they already exist
54:31yeah so I think about it as your mom
54:34bakes 21 cookies
54:36and you get one cookie every 10 minutes
54:40for doing your math homework this is how
54:43I go about this exactly like you don't
54:46have control of all the cookies yet but
54:48do the cookies exist yes if if somebody
54:51comes in and says actually I have
54:53another 21 million cookies like those
54:56are a different set of cookies
54:58so I need to ask a couple of technical
54:59questions on that sure so at the point
55:02where a block is found yes and uh the
55:06coinbase reward is created and
55:10is a utxo created at that point
55:15so like if yeah like I don't understand
55:17this part yeah so when the coinbase uh
55:20when when a block is discovered yeah uh
55:22the the mining pool uh that discovers
55:25the block is issued
55:27um the the subsidy and yeah it's issued
55:30as a utxo so the utxo has created at
55:33that point the utxo uh yes is created at
55:37that point so I don't think they'll I
55:39don't think all 21 million exist then
55:42so they have to already exist because we
55:44know that the supply is 21 million and
55:46then we also know if the schedule has
55:48been broken so if if a minor finds
55:5212.5 Bitcoin at the next block like we
55:57know that that's invalid that's not
55:58Bitcoin that's a hard Fork yeah right
56:01but how do we know that it's a hard Fork
56:03if the Bitcoin doesn't already exist we
56:05already know that there's 21 million we
56:07know exactly how they're released uh and
56:09if anything about that schedule changes
56:11that's a hard Fork that we can claim and
56:14sell for more Bitcoin so I'm going to
56:16argue back with you that I don't think
56:18they exist because I heard about I was
56:19thinking about this quite a bit last
56:20month okay okay so I understand your
56:22point in that there's can only be 21
56:24million and then every 10 minutes these
56:27are issued out to the port or the lucky
56:29solo Miner
56:31um but my argument is is that you can
56:34only identify uh Bitcoin by utxos and
56:37therefore those
56:39um those Bitcoins that haven't been
56:41issued yet because that don't have a
56:43utxo so they don't exist but the
56:45software only allows uh uh Bitcoin to be
56:50issued up until the point it hits 21
56:52million but we know exactly where those
56:54Bitcoin are living in future blocks like
56:56you can pick any Block in the future and
56:59I can tell you how much Bitcoin lives in
57:00the coinbase Troy there and what we
57:02don't know is the existing utxo set how
57:05that's going to move like the Huddle
57:07waves is how we kind of see the existing
57:09utxo set and how it moves over time we
57:12have very little Clarity like Satoshi
57:14could you know market sell his 1 million
57:16Bitcoin uh for uh ethereum proof of
57:20stake you know tomorrow seems a little
57:22unlikely to me but
57:23they could right
57:25um because they have the keys to it the
57:27utxos are under the controls of their
57:29keys what Satoshi can't do is I don't
57:32know what block we're at but five blocks
57:34from now change uh the 6.25 subsidy to
57:39something else but that's to me that's
57:42the rules that says what Bitcoin can be
57:44created at that point
57:47the rules say they don't exist yet but
57:49they say they can be created at that
57:51point when that block is created the
57:52consensus rules pass and those Bitcoin
57:56agreed again I don't know the technicals
57:57of how what or what part happens when
57:59they're created but the utxos are issued
58:02at that point therefore once UTS are
58:05issued then that Bitcoin exists
58:08so I think of it as uh again like the
58:12like Bitcoin is the software that we run
58:15on our computers and it's the private
58:17Keys We Hold to our Bitcoin addresses
58:19and the software we run uh the node like
58:23has the roadmap laid out it has all 21
58:27million Bitcoin and exactly when they're
58:30going to be released and which block and
58:33so I think that if you understand how
58:36this system works you can just assume
58:38that all 21 million Bitcoin exist and uh
58:42you can profit from that information
58:43like miners out there are not like
58:46investing in massive mining
58:49infrastructure you know with the
58:51knowledge that this this thing could
58:53change like they're doing it because oh
58:54no I agree it's fixed they understand
58:56that there will only be 21 million
58:58Bitcoin and so it's just better to think
59:01of them as already existing uh the other
59:03thing so again the reason that I think
59:05that it's it's important to think like
59:06this and it's very esoteric I know but
59:08uh when when [ __ ] coiners are marketing
59:12like oh ethereum is now ultrasound money
59:15because it's issues less you know per
59:18day than Bitcoin like that's insane you
59:21can't first of all you can't change
59:23something to become more sound that's an
59:27oxymoron number two like you don't know
59:30the ultimate supply of ethereum you
59:33don't know the ultimate supply of gold
59:34you don't know the ultimate supply of
59:36really any currency because none of
59:37their supplies are credible we don't
59:39even know the current Supply exactly
59:40with Bitcoin you know that there will
59:43only ever be 21 million and you know
59:44exactly how they're going to be unlocked
59:46locked or issued so I just think
59:49switching your mindset into
59:51understanding that they already exist
59:53helps you to understand sound money
59:55principles and helps you to understand
59:56why broader crypto is in my opinion a
1:00:00scam yeah no I I can understand the Mind
1:00:02switch I just don't agree they exist yet
1:00:04what do you think Danny do they exist
1:00:06I just I don't really see why it matters
1:00:09like either way not the 21 million but
1:00:12like whether they already exist or
1:00:13they're getting unlocked over time like
1:00:15it makes no real difference I think the
1:00:17idea for like a marketing side of things
1:00:19really good in the terms of like
1:00:21clarifying the difference but it makes
1:00:23no difference does it yes I mean if
1:00:25that's the only reason then that's a
1:00:27good reason because you have these
1:00:29idiots out here marketing ethereum is
1:00:31ultrasound money which is there's
1:00:34nothing even remotely minimally sound
1:00:37about it and they're looking at this one
1:00:40metric and saying the inflation rate is
1:00:42what makes it ultrasound money
1:00:45and they're like look at bitcoin's
1:00:47inflation it's you know whatever percent
1:00:49per year one point something percent per
1:00:51year the way I look at it is
1:00:54no bitcoin's inflation is zero because
1:00:57I've always been zero the supply is
1:00:59fixed it's the only currency
1:01:01that has ever existed that has a fixed
1:01:04Supply
1:01:05all other currencies don't have a fixed
1:01:09Supply even even the other cryptos that
1:01:11say that they have fixed Supply they're
1:01:13centralized and so it can be changed and
1:01:15there's plenty of examples of all of
1:01:17those other cryptos changing and then
1:01:19the fact that in the innovation of
1:01:22Bitcoin is the discovery of digital
1:01:25scarcity
1:01:26and broader crypto is a replica it is
1:01:31just proof that things that are digital
1:01:33are extremely easy to copy like you can
1:01:35copy bitcoin's quite code base change a
1:01:37few things here or there launch your own
1:01:39currency you've proven that things that
1:01:41are digital are typically not scarce but
1:01:43what you can't do is create more than 21
1:01:45million Bitcoin so I see your point now
1:01:48there's an inflation rate zero yeah it's
1:01:50just it's just a release schedule it's a
1:01:52schedule it's a schedule yeah yeah so
1:01:54then so then the second article I wrote
1:01:56that's actually a really good point and
1:01:57I can see the benefit there then explain
1:02:00it to people because another thing I was
1:02:01discussing with Parker
1:02:03um yesterday was that uh my way of
1:02:06explaining Bitcoin to people is evolving
1:02:08it's moving from telling them what
1:02:10Bitcoin is to telling them what is wrong
1:02:12with Fiat money and then what Bitcoin
1:02:14solves now
1:02:16I think it's going to be far easier to
1:02:18say there is an inflation rate at zero
1:02:20and there's 21 million and there's a
1:02:22release schedule than to say there's
1:02:24this inflation rate and every four years
1:02:26there's a half and like to get because
1:02:28you have to get into all the difficulty
1:02:29you have to get into all this other [ __ ]
1:02:31you don't need to get into that just
1:02:32makes it easier I get it so then I think
1:02:35you're wrong
1:02:38Jeremy do they already exist yes or no
1:02:40no
1:02:43oh wow but but
1:02:45I I'm agreeing with you it's a useful
1:02:47thing to say and I'm going to use that
1:02:49because sometimes it's better to do it
1:02:52that way all right well I've changed
1:02:53maybe one mind or at least I've tipped
1:02:56the needle a little bit you tip the
1:02:57needle so the other the other reason
1:02:59that I wrote uh this the first storyline
1:03:03the second article is when you
1:03:05understand that uh there will only ever
1:03:08be 21 million Bitcoin because Bitcoin is
1:03:10in fact the supply of 20 million like
1:03:12you can't separate the two you then
1:03:14realize that the other marketing angle
1:03:17that a lot of crypto and shitcoin
1:03:19Founders will take is this idea that at
1:03:23some point in the future Bitcoin will be
1:03:24unsecure
1:03:26it's it's one of the most regular emails
1:03:29I get yeah yeah it's uh what happens in
1:03:32you know three halvings time if the
1:03:34Bitcoin price at this point and uh yeah
1:03:37we we have a you know a much lower hash
1:03:40rate you know we'll be less secure and
1:03:43you know what if that is a trend like
1:03:45can you get somebody on to talk about
1:03:46this and I'm like we can't make a whole
1:03:47show on that but it is a question that
1:03:49comes up a lot
1:03:50and it's a really tough question to
1:03:53tackle because I don't think that the
1:03:54answer is what people want to hear so
1:03:57the way that I think about this is is
1:03:59Bitcoin secure today
1:04:02deal with it at the time well is it
1:04:03secure today yes uh was it secure five
1:04:06years ago
1:04:08I mean I don't think you can say whether
1:04:11it is binary secure exactly yeah is it
1:04:14still alive yeah so then it was Secure
1:04:16five years ago yeah no I think I think
1:04:18what you can do is you can you can
1:04:20calculate the costs you can do a couple
1:04:22of things you can calculate the cost of
1:04:24uh how much hash power you have to uh I
1:04:27think that that's the wrong approach
1:04:28person but to bear with me that you know
1:04:30to be able to attack it okay you have to
1:04:32be able to do that but then you also
1:04:34have to rationalize the actual process
1:04:36of being able to accumulate that hash
1:04:37power which is even more likely so you
1:04:39know when somebody says well you need 20
1:04:41billion dollars of money yeah fine oh
1:04:44whoa somebody's got 50 billion they can
1:04:46do it yeah but you can't actually gonna
1:04:47accumulate the hash power and if you do
1:04:49other people will start accumulating
1:04:51hash power so I think I think you can
1:04:54you can create a risk model
1:04:57okay but how much hash brown there is
1:04:58how much do you need
1:05:00you know how easy does it get it because
1:05:02look at bch or bsv you could very easily
1:05:06accumulate that hash brown you could
1:05:07destroy those networks right it's very
1:05:09easy to do
1:05:10with Bitcoin it's close to Impossible
1:05:12right now so that's the way I think of
1:05:14it like how risky like what is the risk
1:05:17model rather than the cost
1:05:19so I think about it as
1:05:22the network security is discovered on
1:05:26the free market so it will only like and
1:05:29the fact that it's alive today
1:05:3113 years after its founding is proof
1:05:35that the incentives to secure it are
1:05:37were set up correctly
1:05:40um so bitcoin's hash rate was you know
1:05:42what a quarter of what it is today five
1:05:45years ago
1:05:46but it's here today and the hash rate is
1:05:48now at an all-time high what hasn't
1:05:50changed throughout that time is that
1:05:51there will only ever be 21 million
1:05:53Bitcoin the other thing to think about
1:05:55and I I never I think anyone who's doing
1:05:58any sort of modeling using the US dollar
1:06:00is uh is on the wrong path because the
1:06:05the value of the dollar is constantly
1:06:06changing the value of Bitcoin is
1:06:08constantly changing you have to take
1:06:09those as as things that are going to
1:06:11continue to be true forever with Bitcoin
1:06:13the value of the currency is always
1:06:15going to change even when it's globally
1:06:18adopted by 8 billion people
1:06:20um because people are exchanging it
1:06:23constantly
1:06:25so what I look at is
1:06:28there incentive today to invest in
1:06:32Bitcoin mining or invest in securing
1:06:35this thing and
1:06:38the incentive is is it profitable to
1:06:41actually do that and the answer is
1:06:42unequivocally yes like large companies
1:06:45around the world are investing massive
1:06:48amounts of capital into mining Bitcoin
1:06:50because it's a profitable endeavor
1:06:53and it will always be true
1:06:55because
1:06:57Bitcoin mining is actually part of the
1:06:59energy production industry it's not part
1:07:01of it's not like this own its own like
1:07:03carve out industry it's like part of
1:07:06energy production is that you have to
1:07:08balance the amount of energy you're
1:07:10producing with the amount of demand for
1:07:13the energy and you can never perfectly
1:07:16balance it and so you're always going to
1:07:18have a scenario where you know you
1:07:20produce too much energy and demand
1:07:22doesn't uh quite mean it
1:07:25and you need to do something with that
1:07:27energy or waste it so today when we look
1:07:29at energy production especially in the
1:07:31Renewables there's a lot of times when
1:07:34uh the supply and demand are out of
1:07:36whack and so they have to shut down
1:07:37production so like I was reading a
1:07:39statistic about wind energy
1:07:42that said that in California I think in
1:07:44like 2018 2019 17 of the time they're
1:07:47shutting off production of energy
1:07:49they're producing way too much wind
1:07:51energy than they can deliver to the grid
1:07:53well what if you had a tool that would
1:07:55always buy your wind energy
1:07:58but it's only going to buy the wind
1:08:00energy
1:08:01buy it if it can mine Bitcoin sure or
1:08:04enough Bitcoin and the unknown is is
1:08:07come 2141 but probably much you know
1:08:11before then uh what what did they
1:08:13actually mine in that block what did
1:08:15they get out of that block sure well and
1:08:17I I like to point to another kind of
1:08:19historical Bitcoin moment which is when
1:08:24Laszlo purchased uh two pizzas for 10
1:08:28000 Bitcoin
1:08:29do you guys know what the transaction
1:08:31fee he paid was I do because I read your
1:08:33article
1:08:36guess
1:08:38I don't know five sets one Bitcoin ha
1:08:43today uh we pay you know I think each
1:08:47block and we'd have to pull up like
1:08:49blockstream.info to see exactly what the
1:08:51transaction fee is but tens or
1:08:54potentially hundreds of millions of SATs
1:08:56in transaction fees at today's price
1:08:59it's not that bad like in the future as
1:09:03the value of Bitcoin changes 10 million
1:09:06SATs could be an astronomical uh fee to
1:09:10be paying if enough people are using the
1:09:12base chain but we know that the number
1:09:15of users of Bitcoin is continually
1:09:17increasing over time
1:09:19but they might do this they might always
1:09:21they might be just be hodlers or using
1:09:24the lightning Network that's that's
1:09:25number go up technology right there yeah
1:09:26but what I'm saying is you could have a
1:09:28scenario where people there just isn't
1:09:30the number of transactions to create I
1:09:33don't think that that can ever be the
1:09:35case because
1:09:37uh first of all you have to make layer
1:09:40one transactions to use the lightning
1:09:41Network you have to settle your
1:09:43lightning channels eventually like you
1:09:44have to manage channels and so people
1:09:46will especially even if you're using the
1:09:48lightning Network you're always going to
1:09:49be at some point making L1 transaction
1:09:51layer one transactions and then on top
1:09:53of that uh the difficulty adjustment of
1:09:56Bitcoin ensures that Bitcoin is always
1:09:59paying the market rate for energy like
1:10:01if
1:10:02if it's not profitable for a majority of
1:10:05minors to mine Bitcoin at the current
1:10:07value and with the current transaction
1:10:10fee environment or subsidy environment
1:10:12they'll shut off production
1:10:14the difficulty adjustment kicks in and
1:10:17then it becomes profitable for somebody
1:10:18to mine at that value hmm
1:10:21so the difficulty adjustment I think
1:10:23really takes care of a lot of this issue
1:10:24like it will always be profitable for
1:10:27somebody to be mining Bitcoin no I
1:10:29agreed but but how many people are
1:10:32competing to mine that Bitcoin and how
1:10:34much security is there at that time I
1:10:36think and bringing everything kind of
1:10:39back to energy like one of my Visions
1:10:42for the future is that energy production
1:10:45is also extremely localized right yeah
1:10:48so you know solar panels on your roof or
1:10:51whatever or a local nuclear power plant
1:10:53or something a new a little power plant
1:10:56that you can put in your backyard
1:10:57something like that
1:10:59um and you're you're going to
1:11:00individually have that problem of
1:11:03uh supply and demand for energy so it's
1:11:05like you're always going to need a tool
1:11:07to buy up any excess Supply and
1:11:10monetizing any amount of that is better
1:11:13than shutting off production
1:11:14so hashray's basically just gone up
1:11:16forever yeah it's on an all-time high
1:11:18right now I mean it crashed 40 when
1:11:21China banned the Bitcoin but that came
1:11:23back pretty quick oh my gosh yeah almost
1:11:25immediately but do you think there's a
1:11:26time where like the sort of ratio
1:11:28between products and subsidy reached a
1:11:30point where it has to start dropping
1:11:31again
1:11:32I don't think so because again like and
1:11:37the problem the problem that Bitcoin
1:11:39mining solves is not a Bitcoin problem
1:11:41it's an energy problem like we're always
1:11:44going to be imperfectly efficient at
1:11:47energy production
1:11:49and this is a tool that energy producers
1:11:52can always use or rely on in a situation
1:11:55where they can't you know deliver the
1:11:57energy to you know people like it never
1:12:00competes with individuals for uh energy
1:12:04like in the UK I'm sure all Bitcoin
1:12:07miners have essentially shut off
1:12:08production yeah right because it's so
1:12:10expensive to buy energy there that it's
1:12:12we just don't have we just even before
1:12:14this we just don't really have mining
1:12:16yeah yeah it's too expensive before that
1:12:18exactly so it's like mining always goes
1:12:20to the places that is the remote
1:12:22stranded energy the cheapest energy the
1:12:24excess Hydro every single renewable
1:12:27energy
1:12:28um
1:12:29setup should have Asics on site because
1:12:32it's just a tool for them so yeah I
1:12:35don't think it'll ever be a problem and
1:12:36I think the prediction articles that
1:12:38I've read have all made a lot of
1:12:40mistakes because they're trying to
1:12:43measure the value of the security in
1:12:46like the dollar but the dollar is
1:12:47changing value and there the Bitcoin is
1:12:50changing value and so you have to think
1:12:52about it from
1:12:53Austrian first principles
1:12:56um
1:12:56in order to kind of have a deeper
1:12:58understanding of it I think well this
1:13:00wasn't the show we expected to make at
1:13:01all not at all yeah last point on that
1:13:03though before we close out
1:13:05um that's like the argument that all the
1:13:07East people are going to now try and
1:13:08Target though that like Bitcoin minings
1:13:10means you can't have a light on
1:13:11but now they've gone through the state
1:13:13that's going to be attacked
1:13:14like hard yeah but it already started
1:13:17haven't they yeah I mean they started as
1:13:18soon as their timing for that transition
1:13:20in terms of like trying to sort of
1:13:22spread foot is perfect
1:13:24um but do you worry about that like what
1:13:26do you think about what ethereum I just
1:13:28you know I
1:13:30I'm I'm maybe like naively optimistic
1:13:33about Bitcoin um I think that because we
1:13:36have Bitcoin
1:13:37um the transition to sound money isn't
1:13:41going to be as catastrophic as some
1:13:43people are thinking it's not going to be
1:13:45pleasant for people
1:13:46um I think that the ethereum uh
1:13:49marketing is going to get more
1:13:52aggressive but just the fact that
1:13:55ethereum itself is inflation and they
1:13:59keep changing things and so it doesn't
1:14:00have a credible monetary policy and on
1:14:03top of that it is money uh it doesn't
1:14:06really do all that much else besides B
1:14:08money you know you can print your own
1:14:10money on top of their money you can
1:14:12produce some tokens some nfts which are
1:14:16again kind of like forms of money so
1:14:18it's just money
1:14:20but it's way crappier at being money
1:14:22than Bitcoin and so no amount of
1:14:25marketing will ultimately overcome that
1:14:28um yeah is it gonna get worse sure I
1:14:32think what we're seeing is a lot of
1:14:36there's more and more people that are
1:14:37waking up to this idea that Bitcoin
1:14:39mining actually fortifies the grid so
1:14:42we're already seeing articles you know
1:14:43here in Texas about during the recent
1:14:45heat wave
1:14:47the grid was able to tap into one
1:14:49percent additional energy by just asking
1:14:52the miners to shut off production what's
1:14:54cool about mining is yeah you just flip
1:14:56a switch and then the energy is diverted
1:14:58somewhere else yeah and then if they if
1:15:00there's too much energy just flip the
1:15:02switch back on you start buying the
1:15:03cheap energy again so it's a really
1:15:05again super useful tool for energy
1:15:08production
1:15:09um so yeah I think I think the economic
1:15:12reality of the fact that Bitcoin is
1:15:14sound money
1:15:16will just overcome any sort of marketing
1:15:19that is levied against it as it has for
1:15:21the last 13 years I mean
1:15:23I was just talking to some family
1:15:25members the other day they're like man
1:15:27I've been hearing some really bad stuff
1:15:29about Bitcoin and it's like yeah that's
1:15:31always been the case there's never been
1:15:33a moment I've been in Bitcoin for many
1:15:34years and it's always been dumped on by
1:15:38everybody right mainstream media
1:15:41governments [ __ ] coiners like everybody
1:15:44is constantly dumping on bitcoin but the
1:15:48thing is anti-fragile it it absorbs all
1:15:50that and becomes stronger and the I
1:15:53think the clearest example of that
1:15:56is or one of the clearest examples is
1:15:59when China banned mining last year yep
1:16:01you saw a 40 crash in hash rate and then
1:16:05it immediately hit you know all-time
1:16:07high against after the course of maybe
1:16:09like three months
1:16:10and the the position that Bitcoin is in
1:16:13after the fact is way stronger than
1:16:16before because all that hash rate has
1:16:17dispersed across the globe yep so when
1:16:19you try to ban this thing uh you you
1:16:23increase the level of decentralization
1:16:25of it it's it gets stronger every time
1:16:27you attack it if you've got that shot
1:16:29for uh Harry yeah I sent him that he did
1:16:32you gotta envelope that's brilliant so
1:16:34this is uh every child you need for
1:16:36Bitcoin whenever you have an argument
1:16:37with somebody discussing Bitcoin just
1:16:40sending this
1:16:41I can't find it
1:16:44I tried to describe Bitcoin to some
1:16:47people by showing them the Huddle waves
1:16:48to start didn't go that well
1:16:52exactly exactly all right do you want to
1:16:55give a shout out to Unchained before we
1:16:56finish
1:16:57sure so uh yeah I'm Phil Geiger I'm uh
1:17:00managing director of concierge at
1:17:02Unchained and uh what we do is we help
1:17:04people hold the private keys to their
1:17:06Bitcoin in a way that you're not going
1:17:07to lose your Bitcoin so one of the
1:17:09biggest problems with self-custody is
1:17:11the thought of like oh man I make one
1:17:13mistake I've lost my life savings we use
1:17:15a type of address that has a bunch of
1:17:17redundancies so that if you lose a piece
1:17:19of information you haven't lost your
1:17:21Bitcoin this is all Native to the
1:17:22protocol it's multi-signature and my
1:17:25team will help walk you through how to
1:17:27set this up from A to Z and then we take
1:17:28care of people after the fact what's
1:17:31cool about Unchained is from a position
1:17:33of extreme security multi-signature
1:17:36addresses where you have the keys you
1:17:38can then do a bunch of cool Financial uh
1:17:40products like you can hold Bitcoin in a
1:17:42retirement account in an IRA where you
1:17:43actually hold the keys you can buy
1:17:45Bitcoin from us directly into Cold
1:17:47Storage there's no other counterparties
1:17:49that you're dealing with you can take a
1:17:50loan using your Bitcoin as collateral
1:17:52we're really trying to build a full
1:17:54Suite financial services company on top
1:17:56of this Foundation of clients holding
1:17:58their own keys on top of multi-signature
1:18:00which is again just native to bitcoin
1:18:02it's one of the tools that Bitcoin
1:18:03affords us awesome man all right Phil
1:18:06good to see you please go and check out
1:18:07Unchained uh we didn't plan to talk
1:18:09about any of this so uh yeah here's what
1:18:11it is man Cheers Cheers

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