The EXACT Strategy Behind a Six Figure Gamma Trader — Transcript
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- 0:05Tesla course where I almost made six
- 0:07figures and that with the age of 20.
- 0:12The problem in the market is you can do
- 0:14everything right and be wrong.
- 0:16And you can do everything wrong and be
- 0:17right.
- 0:18>> Most traders are looking for the perfect
- 0:20strategy, the perfect setup, the holy
- 0:23grail. Our guest today, Manuel, stopped
- 0:26looking 17 years ago. He started trading
- 0:29at 17 and today he trades the world's
- 0:32biggest indices [music] with a framework
- 0:35most traders have never even heard of.
- 0:37>> And when you know about gamma, then you
- 0:39know have to know about two things. You
- 0:41need to know about positive gamma and
- 0:43negative gamma.
- 0:45>> In this episode, we walk through 17
- 0:47years of edge. From his biggest win to
- 0:50his biggest loss to the framework he
- 0:52uses every day.
- 0:54>> Most of the drawdowns do not come from a
- 0:57wrong trading approach. The trading
- 0:59approach might be fine, might be great,
- 1:01but the blowing of accounts only happens
- 1:04when they're trading emotionally after
- 1:07losing trades.
- 1:08>> So, if you want to understand why so
- 1:10many serious traders don't even trade
- 1:13their own money and how you can explore
- 1:15that path yourself, this episode is for
- 1:18you.
- 1:18>> If you can just look at the market and
- 1:20sit on your hands without feeling the
- 1:22need of doing anything, then you're
- 1:24better than I would say 60 to 70% on the
- 1:27market.
- 1:28>> Now, let's see what Manuel is made of.
- 1:35A lot of traders think that advanced
- 1:38traders are doing something secret,
- 1:41complex, or impossible to understand.
- 1:44What's the most simple part of your
- 1:46trading process that contributes the
- 1:48most to your results?
- 1:51>> I think the simplest part of my trading
- 1:54approach is just looking at volume per
- 1:56se. And
- 1:58volume You hear volume all the time,
- 2:00right? When you're looking at trading
- 2:01nowadays on YouTube, you hear about
- 2:04volume. But um
- 2:06I feel like this is something that a lot
- 2:09of people miss. They all have the volume
- 2:10profile on their chart, but they're not
- 2:12really looking at it and and
- 2:14understanding it. And the simplest thing
- 2:16I do, for example, is just looking at
- 2:19volume. Where was the distribution?
- 2:21Where was the accumulation? And
- 2:24how did the distribution or accumulation
- 2:26happen? And then I just put the market
- 2:30in this one frame during the day where I
- 2:33know, okay, these will be approximately
- 2:36the implied day high or the implied day
- 2:39low. And this is the range that we are
- 2:42most probably going to be trading in.
- 2:45And in that range, I want to stay.
- 2:48>> So, what does volume tell you about a
- 2:50session
- 2:51that a simple price move or an indicator
- 2:55like RSI does not tell you?
- 2:57>> Yeah, this is something I will show
- 3:00later as well. Volume in general just
- 3:02shows me where price got accepted. So,
- 3:05when I know price was accepted at a
- 3:08certain price range, I know that this is
- 3:11a pinning point. And why the pinning
- 3:13point happens is to be determined later.
- 3:17But at first, we just need to know
- 3:19there's a point of like gravity where
- 3:22the market can pull back to. And
- 3:26the market will have a I call it or it's
- 3:29said like that
- 3:30slow like lower realized volatility. And
- 3:34the lower realized volatility helps me
- 3:37understand, okay, this is uh the farther
- 3:40we move out of that range, the more
- 3:43likely we will come back to that high
- 3:44volatility point. And this this is how I
- 3:47can structure the the market for the
- 3:50day.
- 3:51Just rotating back to the values or
- 3:54levels of interest.
- 3:56Right?
- 3:57>> And you figure this out with the volume
- 3:59profile.
- 3:59>> Exactly. Exactly. Yes.
- 4:02>> So, before you even think about entering
- 4:04a trade, what are you trying to
- 4:06understand
- 4:08about the market?
- 4:09>> So, what I want to understand about the
- 4:11market, and this is also something a lot
- 4:13people are doing wrong, is to put too
- 4:15much focus on the setups, right?
- 4:17Everyone wants the the correct setup
- 4:20that helps us winning every day. But, um
- 4:24for me, the most important thing is
- 4:25context. So, at first, I will try to do
- 4:28a market brief for myself, you know, so
- 4:31I can um
- 4:33so I know what macroeconomic events, for
- 4:36example, are happening or are
- 4:39just important for the week. And then, I
- 4:42will try to see
- 4:43if the market actually um shows what the
- 4:48theory um says it must be like, right?
- 4:52Are we trending? Is the market actually
- 4:55trading like it's supposed to be in the
- 4:57way that the the news and everything
- 5:01lines up? Or are we like in a maybe
- 5:04mispriced um
- 5:07area during the day?
- 5:09And for that, I want to just simply see
- 5:12are we trending? Are we ranging? And um
- 5:15have the bias or the context for the day
- 5:18to just know if I'm looking for, for
- 5:20example, only for long trades or if I
- 5:22can do trade both. Where is my
- 5:24probability the highest for the day? And
- 5:27that I do with the market brief, which
- 5:29which is like a 30 minutes of work
- 5:31before I start trading at the day. Um to
- 5:34just gather all the information I need.
- 5:37I have a setup for this and just put
- 5:40everything in the pipeline I know
- 5:42and create like a brief for myself for
- 5:46for trading day.
- 5:48>> So,
- 5:49what is one thing
- 5:51beginner traders focus on too much?
- 5:55And one thing that they don't focus on
- 5:57enough.
- 5:58>> Yes, that's a good question and I think
- 6:02like I mentioned in the beginning, it's
- 6:04usually the setup. So, beginner traders
- 6:07usually focus on and I mean you can't
- 6:10blame them because there's a lot of
- 6:11noise and a lot of info out there on
- 6:14YouTube and wherever you can get a lot
- 6:16of good quality free info, but you can
- 6:18also get a lot of bad quality info and
- 6:21you don't know how to filter that. So,
- 6:23the first thing which you naturally
- 6:25focus on is
- 6:27when I want to start trading, I need to
- 6:29have like uh
- 6:30um just a setup or um
- 6:33a structure or like uh shoulder head
- 6:36shoulder formation, like certain
- 6:38formations that you just have to see in
- 6:41the plain chart and then you try to make
- 6:43something out of it or try to get the
- 6:45trade with that formation. And I feel
- 6:47like this the the mistake right in the
- 6:49beginning cuz the focus
- 6:52um stays with the setup. So, if
- 6:55something's not profitable, beginner
- 6:57traders
- 6:58just look for the next setup. So, they
- 7:00go to the next YouTube video and there's
- 7:01another guy showing the next setup. So,
- 7:04you try that. But, what you always miss
- 7:07is the context which I was talking
- 7:09about, which helps you understand what's
- 7:12even going on in the market and where
- 7:14are your levels of interest which are
- 7:16really worth looking at because you do
- 7:19maybe have a winning setup, but the
- 7:21winning setup is only a winning setup in
- 7:23a certain market environment, in a
- 7:25certain regime. And if you don't know
- 7:27about the regime, if you don't know
- 7:29about the market environment, you can't
- 7:31really
- 7:32have any setup. Like the most profitable
- 7:35setup wouldn't be profitable in
- 7:38a wrong environment for the setup. And I
- 7:40think that's what most beginner traders
- 7:43are doing wrong.
- 7:44>> Now Matt, well, this is one of the
- 7:45hardest things in trading. When looking
- 7:47at news events, fundamental releases,
- 7:50>> Yeah.
- 7:51>> how do you know
- 7:53when you should classify it as bullish
- 7:55or bearish?
- 7:57>> That's actually pretty hard because not
- 7:59every news is automatically only bullish
- 8:03or only bearish. Um the topic is way
- 8:06more nuanced. I mean, this is something
- 8:08also a lot of beginning traders um try
- 8:11to think of is oh, that news must be
- 8:14bullish for the market, so I just go
- 8:16along and this must be an easy trade.
- 8:19But um the market is more complicated
- 8:21than that. Um it's always what the
- 8:23market expects, what the market has pri-
- 8:27or has been pricing in, and what's
- 8:30actually the reality.
- 8:32And news can be bullish, for example, uh
- 8:35rate cuts, right? Um usually are bullish
- 8:38for the market, but if the market
- 8:40expected a 0.5
- 8:42uh bps rate cut, but it only um happens
- 8:46uh 0.25 bps rate cut, then the market
- 8:49tanks. So, bullish news can actually be
- 8:52bearish. And I I think you have to
- 8:55understand that um as a beginning trader
- 8:57as well, that um
- 9:00n- every news can be bullish or bearish
- 9:03based on what the market expected, and
- 9:05for that you have to see
- 9:07um how we've been trading.
- 9:09Right? And if we've been trading, for
- 9:12example, very flat, very consistent,
- 9:15just a s-
- 9:17slow skew upwards, and the market just
- 9:19trending upwards, and everything is
- 9:21fine,
- 9:22um then you have to see why is that, and
- 9:26what news could um trigger
- 9:30a different pricing.
- 9:32And that's that's about it. So, news
- 9:35will trigger something, and you just
- 9:36have to see how our traders protect them
- 9:39then protecting themselves for the news.
- 9:41Are they
- 9:42measuring high significance for the
- 9:44event or low significance? And they
- 9:47might be wrong, right? They might be
- 9:49thinking, "Oh, this event will be very
- 9:51significant for the market." So, the
- 9:53market tends to be very volatile.
- 9:55But maybe the news didn't trigger
- 9:58anything. So,
- 10:00it got mispriced, right? And that can be
- 10:02bearish news, but the market rips. So,
- 10:06I feel like this is something you really
- 10:08have to understand.
- 10:10>> So, Manuel, what would you say to a
- 10:12trader
- 10:13who doesn't trade fundamentals or news
- 10:16and only focuses on technicals?
- 10:18>> Yeah. If you only focus on technicals,
- 10:21then we can draw the circle back to
- 10:23volume.
- 10:24If you're not really interested in or
- 10:27don't understand the fundamental side of
- 10:29the markets, then it's fine because you
- 10:31can
- 10:32actually isolate
- 10:34profitable trading from understanding
- 10:37everything behind the market. And then I
- 10:39would say definitely focus on volume
- 10:41because if you know where you're
- 10:43trending relative to where volume has
- 10:45been built, then you know a lot already.
- 10:48Then you know if the market is more
- 10:51bearish or bullish just based on that.
- 10:54And then you can even
- 10:56to some extent at least, not care about
- 10:59why a move happened, why this candle is
- 11:02so big and green or or red and uh huge
- 11:06uh
- 11:07because you just need to know where is
- 11:09the candle relative to the volume
- 11:10profile, for example. Then you already
- 11:12know a lot. Yeah.
- 11:14>> If someone's brand new watching this
- 11:16video, would you tell them skip RSI,
- 11:18skip MACD on your technical side, start
- 11:22with options, news, volatility, volume
- 11:25profile?
- 11:25>> Yes. Yes. 100% skip the lagging
- 11:28indicators. I'm not looking at a at any
- 11:31of these and they are not helping. They
- 11:34never helped me. Um I don't also want to
- 11:37be um arrogant in that regard and say
- 11:40they can never help and this is all
- 11:42because it's not. You can
- 11:44actually if you have the deep
- 11:46understanding of the market then you can
- 11:49take those things
- 11:50and maybe sharpen your trading edge that
- 11:54you found because sometimes it helps,
- 11:56right? But only to use RSI, MACD,
- 11:59whatsoever as a plain signal which most
- 12:02of the people are doing or which most of
- 12:04the YouTubers that teach those things
- 12:07are
- 12:08um
- 12:08are perpetuating that it might be the
- 12:11right thing to just uh
- 12:14to just have as an entry signal. This is
- 12:16wrong. First, you understand volume, you
- 12:18understand the market itself and then
- 12:21you can use those things to sharpen your
- 12:23edge, to sharpen your trading approach.
- 12:25Um and then you know how to use them,
- 12:28right? But before I would skip it and
- 12:31learn about the
- 12:32the real stuff at first.
- 12:34>> The real stuff?
- 12:35>> The real stuff.
- 12:36>> Exactly.
- 12:37>> [laughter]
- 12:38>> Now, would you say you're predicting the
- 12:40market
- 12:41or are you identifying areas where
- 12:44forced behavior
- 12:46>> Yes.
- 12:46>> might transpire?
- 12:47>> I think predicting is always something
- 12:50um you can never use as a professional
- 12:52trader
- 12:53because predicting would mean that you
- 12:56know something's going to happen. But
- 12:58you can't do that as a trader. As a
- 13:00trader you always only have
- 13:01probabilities and you know or what you
- 13:03can make out is where's high probability
- 13:06for something to happen and where's low
- 13:08probability for something to happen. So
- 13:10with uh identifying these levels
- 13:13I know that I have a certain probability
- 13:16of the market reacting at those levels
- 13:18and depending on how significant those
- 13:20levels are to just uh do the trade there
- 13:23and with that probability probability I
- 13:25have confidence and with the confidence
- 13:27I have conviction in the trade, and
- 13:29therefore, I'm able to to stay
- 13:32emotionally
- 13:34calm and detached, and just do the trade
- 13:38because I know the probabilities on my
- 13:40side in the best case if I do it if I
- 13:42did everything correctly.
- 13:43>> All right, man. Well, you've given us an
- 13:45excellent overview of what you look for
- 13:48in the markets that's helped you be
- 13:50consistent and find success.
- 13:53I think it's time to show us on a chart
- 13:56specifically what you're looking for.
- 13:59We're on the chart. What's the first
- 14:01thing we do?
- 14:01>> So, this is um
- 14:03as you can see here, it's a 30-minute
- 14:06chart.
- 14:08And what you can do here in general is
- 14:10just
- 14:12have a look at the structure itself,
- 14:14right? What you can see
- 14:16is just a plain chart for now with the
- 14:19volume profile, which is actually the
- 14:21volume profile that shows the whole
- 14:23month or the volume for the whole
- 14:27contract, right?
- 14:29Um in that case, I use a continuous
- 14:31contract um
- 14:33that um
- 14:34the the information is 100% full.
- 14:38>> Now, what are you looking for next? We
- 14:40have our monthly volume profile on the
- 14:42chart, and we're on the 30-minute chart
- 14:44specifically.
- 14:45>> Yes, exactly.
- 14:46>> What do we look for next?
- 14:48>> So, what are we looking for is where did
- 14:51the volume
- 14:52um or where was the volume built
- 14:55in general, right? And when we zoom out,
- 14:57we can see
- 14:58that the week before, so starting from
- 15:01Friday, May 8th, until
- 15:05Friday, May 22nd,
- 15:07we
- 15:09traded this huge range, right? And we
- 15:11built most of the volume during that
- 15:13month here.
- 15:16And what we can see now is that we broke
- 15:18out of that. So, we're technically long,
- 15:21right? Just by looking at it, we can
- 15:23definitely determine and just looking at
- 15:26it objectively that we're long in the
- 15:29structure.
- 15:30>> You said we broke out of the range. How
- 15:33do we know what the range is based on
- 15:35volume profile?
- 15:36>> So, to determine the range, I would use
- 15:39the 30-minute chart just by looking at
- 15:43it. Where are the points that got tested
- 15:46for amount X, maybe two times, maybe
- 15:50three times, maybe four. And where is
- 15:53the volume breaking up um significantly?
- 15:57If we try to determine that, I will undo
- 16:00the old level or I will cancel the old
- 16:02levels, so we have a clean view on the
- 16:03chart and it's not distracting. But,
- 16:06what we can see here is for example it
- 16:10that area between
- 16:13here and here, for example, we have
- 16:16significance in the cut of the profile,
- 16:20right?
- 16:21So, we know
- 16:22that
- 16:24these levels
- 16:26make out the range uh where the markets
- 16:29has been trading between. Like, these
- 16:32are the steps,
- 16:33I would say.
- 16:34And in order for the market, for
- 16:36example, to get back into that range, it
- 16:39has to overcome the first resistance
- 16:42where volume started to
- 16:45or was built again, right?
- 16:49So, I I What I know is that this is the
- 16:53bigger range.
- 16:54If I look at this price point here
- 16:57and down here
- 16:59just from the technical side, because
- 17:02this is the big If you just look at it,
- 17:05this is the big area where the market
- 17:07traded between basically most of the
- 17:11month for until now to date. And when it
- 17:15broke out, it had very low volume and
- 17:17typically for a significant breakout is
- 17:22the imbalance, the low volume. And after
- 17:25that,
- 17:26you know, prices get accepted again when
- 17:28volume is being built. So, since today
- 17:30is the Memorial Day, we don't know for
- 17:32sure. We can't really account for that.
- 17:35But, um
- 17:36if, for example, tomorrow the market
- 17:38keeps holding that level and maybe fills
- 17:40that low volume node or rejects it, then
- 17:44we are prone for a move higher.
- 17:46>> Why is acceptance and rejection
- 17:47important? What do these mean?
- 17:49>> So, that what we have to understand is
- 17:51the the
- 17:53um market itself. Like, for example, the
- 17:55Chicago Mercantile Exchange has only one
- 17:57job. It has to match buyers and sellers
- 18:01in the most effective way.
- 18:03And when we know volume is being built,
- 18:06buyers and sellers could be matched most
- 18:09effective in that price area, right? So,
- 18:13what's acceptance and rejection means is
- 18:15when we see the market rejected a
- 18:17certain level or it didn't really trade
- 18:19around that level, then we know that
- 18:21market participants weren't interested
- 18:24and the um market itself or like, for
- 18:27example, the Chicago Mercantile Exchange
- 18:29in that case
- 18:30couldn't match buyers and sellers around
- 18:33that prices, but could do so
- 18:36in that area.
- 18:38So, we know that the prices here got
- 18:40accepted, but we got rejected here and
- 18:43where rejection happens,
- 18:45another rejection is likely.
- 18:47>> And
- 18:48you mentioned on this breakout a retest
- 18:51of the low volume node.
- 18:53>> Um I mentioned Yes, exactly. So, what
- 18:56I'm looking for it in yesterday is
- 18:59uh tomorrow. Um what I what I will be
- 19:01looking for is, for example, another
- 19:04test into that low volume area. This
- 19:08would also be a market profile single
- 19:10print, actually, which I mentioned
- 19:11before, which I um which I can look at
- 19:15automatically.
- 19:16And I know for a fact because of this
- 19:19this has been actually proven by our
- 19:21systems is a profitable trading approach
- 19:24trading single print rejections. So,
- 19:27these have a very high significance. And
- 19:30when the market trades in that level,
- 19:32it's very likely that it will reject
- 19:35this low volume area
- 19:37and the single prints.
- 19:39It's called single print because you
- 19:41only have this one move in that only in
- 19:44that one auction
- 19:46where the price got um
- 19:49got painted. But um
- 19:51here you see
- 19:53the prices stay for a longer time. So,
- 19:55this is also an area of low acceptance.
- 19:58And if it's an area of low acceptance,
- 20:00the probability that the market's going
- 20:02to reject it is very high.
- 20:04>> Now, you'll treat a rejection at this
- 20:07low volume node as a potential long
- 20:11entry opportunity?
- 20:12>> Exactly. I mean, not that I would marry
- 20:15the idea of trading a long here,
- 20:18but I know that uh
- 20:19reaction here is possible and likely.
- 20:22This is the only thing I know, right?
- 20:24It's not that I know the market's going
- 20:26to retrace from here and will like do
- 20:27another will do another long.
- 20:30But I know it's likely.
- 20:32And since I have that
- 20:35low value area, that low acceptance
- 20:38area,
- 20:39when the market is coming down, this is
- 20:41an area of interest for me and I will
- 20:43try to look for uh significance
- 20:47in for example order flow here, maybe an
- 20:50absorption of sellers that will confirm
- 20:54that this level
- 20:56is going to be rejected.
- 20:59And then, as soon as we enter
- 21:02the area of acceptance again,
- 21:04I know the probability that we test the
- 21:06high
- 21:08is definitely higher
- 21:10than the probability of us testing the
- 21:13lows again.
- 21:14So, I will look look for a long
- 21:16opportunity.
- 21:17>> You mentioned absorption of sellers.
- 21:19>> Yes.
- 21:19>> This would be a confirmation technique?
- 21:22>> Yes, exactly.
- 21:23>> How do you confirm that?
- 21:24>> I confirm an
- 21:26absorption when I see high significance
- 21:29in volume and delta at a certain price.
- 21:32And we don't have
- 21:35um what I call market participants
- 21:38getting paid.
- 21:39So, if you think logically about it, if
- 21:42there's
- 21:44huge market selling volume
- 21:48and the same volume just moved prices
- 21:51and now it stops. There has to be a
- 21:53reason for it. There has to be a passive
- 21:55buyer that's absorbing
- 21:58these this volume.
- 22:00So, if I see that and I see the
- 22:02significance not only in delta itself
- 22:04because delta itself is
- 22:06only half of the information you need.
- 22:09You need also volume and you have high
- 22:11volume high delta combinations which
- 22:14actually these
- 22:16dots here, the red and the green dots
- 22:18show, then you know that there's an
- 22:22absorption happening because the market
- 22:24is not going through. So, so the sellers
- 22:26that actually sold aggressively sold
- 22:29markets
- 22:30are not getting paid.
- 22:32And if the sellers are not getting paid,
- 22:35the other side is getting paid. So, the
- 22:37buyers are getting paid when the sellers
- 22:38are not getting paid. So, you always ask
- 22:40the question,
- 22:42who's getting paid and who's not? And if
- 22:44the sellers move into the market
- 22:45aggressively but are not getting paid,
- 22:47then you know the buyers are getting
- 22:48paid. So, the side you want to
- 22:50set trade on
- 22:52is the long, for example, right? At the
- 22:54level where you're looking for a long
- 22:56anyways, that's when you have high
- 22:58conviction.
- 22:59>> And what would absolutely invalidate
- 23:01this idea?
- 23:02>> Yeah, So, so we have uh um couple of
- 23:05things that could happen here.
- 23:07For example, the market accepts these
- 23:11prices.
- 23:12So, it trades beneath that level,
- 23:14beneath that area, and just stays here.
- 23:17So, volume is being built.
- 23:20Then you know there's acceptance.
- 23:22And acceptance is slow.
- 23:25Acceptance means the market is in um a
- 23:27slow environment, and nothing really
- 23:29happens. So, this is not what happens
- 23:32during a rejection. A rejection in
- 23:34general it tends to be fast. So, you
- 23:36know that with the order flow itself,
- 23:38you know that with the volume that's
- 23:39been that's that is being traded per
- 23:41second, for example. High volume per
- 23:43second, the market just dips in here,
- 23:46retraces. That's a typical rejection.
- 23:50Acceptance would mean the market accepts
- 23:52these prices. Accepting means stays at
- 23:55these price levels, builds volume. So,
- 23:58this would invalidate the idea for me of
- 24:00going long.
- 24:02So, the market has to be fast in order
- 24:04for me to
- 24:05um know that this might be an
- 24:08an a rejection.
- 24:10Or what could also happen is the market
- 24:12is fast, but just moves down this level
- 24:16again, back to that range, or enters
- 24:18that range again.
- 24:20Then the trade idea never really um
- 24:23got at all anyways. So, I wouldn't even
- 24:26have looked for the long, because the
- 24:28market just didn't do anything that
- 24:30could
- 24:31made it interesting for me. That could
- 24:33have made it interesting for me.
- 24:35>> So, Manuel, how does options volume,
- 24:38news, macroeconomic data, where does
- 24:40this tie into your market structure and
- 24:43volume profile analysis?
- 24:44>> Um so,
- 24:46what I can show you, or what I wanted to
- 24:48show you, is the typical market brief
- 24:50and how that looks like for me. Right
- 24:52now, this is in German, so um you won't
- 24:54make most of it, but just to get a
- 24:56picture of how it looks like, right? Um
- 24:59this is like a daily technical brief for
- 25:01me, um which is um
- 25:04including the executive summary. So, it
- 25:06it's it says about the regime Iran
- 25:08headlines AI narrative volatility crush
- 25:12that the market um
- 25:14that holds the market in the long
- 25:16regime, right? And then just where the
- 25:18SPX is, where the uh
- 25:21VIX is, where the V W um BBIX is, and um
- 25:27what's the general bias. So, I know for
- 25:30the ES and the NQ the general bias and
- 25:33um what what's it saying about uh what
- 25:36the market is doing, right? So, this is
- 25:37what I look at every day,
- 25:39um which I'm creating every day for
- 25:41myself.
- 25:42And if I know that,
- 25:44I know the regime which we were talking
- 25:47about in general, and then I look for
- 25:49high conviction levels, which will be
- 25:52for instance the market maker hedging
- 25:55levels. And I will look at a heat map
- 25:58with uh certain trading tools I'm using,
- 26:01and where I can confirm that. For
- 26:04example, let's look at the Friday here.
- 26:07This was Friday 5 minutes before open.
- 26:10And what we can see here is a heat map
- 26:13that shows market maker hedging
- 26:15pressure,
- 26:17where it might come in and where it
- 26:19might not come in. And what you can see
- 26:21is that the map in general is very blue
- 26:25bluish. So, that means we're in positive
- 26:28gamma regime, so that in general means
- 26:31it's supporting the market.
- 26:33And when it's supporting the market, it
- 26:36means um for us that we can
- 26:39be supported in the move that's
- 26:41happening. So, if the market tends to
- 26:42trade long, we're looking for longs. And
- 26:45what you also can see
- 26:47is the net OI, so the net open interest.
- 26:51And this is for example, just you get
- 26:54the idea, the call wall we're talking
- 26:56about.
- 26:57And the call wall here at 77500
- 27:02shows that here's a significant call
- 27:04position of 20,600
- 27:07contracts that the market makers are
- 27:10holding long.
- 27:11And here
- 27:12a net put position
- 27:14of
- 27:1615.6 thousand contracts. So, this is the
- 27:19call wall.
- 27:20And
- 27:21this also means a high
- 27:24probability of the market
- 27:26first trending there,
- 27:29testing that level,
- 27:30and
- 27:32if the market regime stays in positive
- 27:35gamma,
- 27:36a rejection at that level will be very
- 27:38likely. So, what we can see now, if we
- 27:42for example,
- 27:43move the timeline a bit to 1 hour later,
- 27:46we see the market tested this call wall
- 27:50at around um
- 27:5210 minutes after US open
- 27:54and rejected it at first.
- 27:56But you what you also can see is that
- 27:58the gamma support, the positive gamma
- 28:00support,
- 28:01goes
- 28:03um
- 28:04back, right? So, we have negative gamma
- 28:06coming in at those levels. And if we go
- 28:10further for another hour,
- 28:12we can see the market always pins back
- 28:15to that call wall, right? Because this
- 28:18is a
- 28:19like has a
- 28:20um magnetic effect on the market. And
- 28:24always when it starts approaching, the
- 28:26market gets rejected again
- 28:29because of the market maker hedging
- 28:31pressure that comes into play
- 28:33at this price, right?
- 28:35So,
- 28:36you can see three times during that day
- 28:39the call wall has been rejected.
- 28:41And now we have negative gamma to the
- 28:43upside.
- 28:44And what's very interesting
- 28:47is when you
- 28:48look at it,
- 28:51this is what happened during the open,
- 28:54the the pre-session open today.
- 28:57We have negative gamma to the upside.
- 28:59So, higher vola- higher realized
- 29:00volatility to the upside is expected.
- 29:03And what happened? We had very high
- 29:05volatility to the upside
- 29:07right the next day during the open.
- 29:10So, this is something this information
- 29:12we can get
- 29:14just by looking at the at gamma itself.
- 29:18And we know, okay, if the market
- 29:20breaches the call wall breaches that
- 29:22level which has been here, right? So,
- 29:24this is the call wall. We can see that
- 29:25in our trading software.
- 29:27And it breaches it, which it did in the
- 29:29pre-session on Monday.
- 29:32We have high realized volatility because
- 29:34we knew that from the heat map here.
- 29:36And the market just broke above.
- 29:39>> Manuel, I see a lot of colors here.
- 29:41>> Yes.
- 29:42>> And it all looks really interesting.
- 29:43Would you be able to break this down for
- 29:45me as someone who's never used this tool
- 29:47before? What do these colors mean and
- 29:49what am I looking at?
- 29:51>> So, we focus on the heat map itself at
- 29:53first. And what the colors mean is in
- 29:56general, where is negative gamma in red
- 30:00and where is positive gamma in blue.
- 30:03And
- 30:05in general, that means
- 30:07what we talked about in the beginning,
- 30:08blue positive gamma means low realized
- 30:11volatility. Red means higher realized
- 30:14volatility. And the areas of white,
- 30:18here the gamma is relatively neutral.
- 30:20So, we don't really have
- 30:23um
- 30:24high conviction in saying this is
- 30:26positive or negative gamma, it's just
- 30:28neutral.
- 30:29Doesn't really mean much. So, what we're
- 30:31looking for is the gamma support in
- 30:33strong blue or the negative gamma um in
- 30:37in red, right?
- 30:39And in general, what we're trying to
- 30:42look at is
- 30:43where is the market
- 30:45to those significant levels, right? So,
- 30:48you want to see the net open interest
- 30:50positions
- 30:51and where the market is in general
- 30:54trading in relation to those. And we
- 30:57know now, for example,
- 30:59that the market at this point at um 25
- 31:03minutes before US open traded above
- 31:07two relatively or three relatively
- 31:09significant positions approaching the
- 31:12most important position for the day, the
- 31:157500.
- 31:17And since the market is doing that,
- 31:19we can expect with a high probability
- 31:22that the call wall is the level that
- 31:24will be tested during the session.
- 31:27Because it has an magnetic magnetic
- 31:30effect, as I've said.
- 31:33And moving onwards, the colors, as we
- 31:36can see, change.
- 31:38And with change of this color,
- 31:41the gamma regime, of course,
- 31:43um
- 31:44changes as well. Because the colors are
- 31:46showing the gamma regime, right? And
- 31:49as we are moving on during the day,
- 31:52the gamma regime goes from
- 31:55positive before open to neutral during
- 31:58open to more negative
- 32:00during the
- 32:02course of the day,
- 32:03right? And as more or as further we
- 32:07approach um the end of the day,
- 32:10the regime to the upside is negative,
- 32:13while to the downside we have support.
- 32:16So, to the downside, we can expect
- 32:17market makers hedging against market
- 32:20movement. So, every dip can be bought,
- 32:23basically.
- 32:24But to the upside, we expect, if the
- 32:26upside happens, if the call wall is
- 32:28breached, explosive moves. Because red
- 32:31means explosive moves.
- 32:33And
- 32:34blue means support.
- 32:36This can also change. The gamma heat map
- 32:39here, what we are what we're seeing
- 32:40could also be blue to the upside and red
- 32:43to the downside, which would mean
- 32:46the
- 32:47moves higher will be hedged against the
- 32:50market movement, so we will
- 32:52not really look for breakouts long
- 32:54because we have to expect market makers
- 32:56to
- 32:57um
- 32:58have slow or lower
- 33:00realized volatility to the upside. We
- 33:02expect reversals, so every rip will be
- 33:05sold,
- 33:07so to say. And if the area here is blue,
- 33:11we know we don't have any gamma support
- 33:13to the downside, so realized volatility
- 33:15will be high. And if the market
- 33:17moves down fast, we will look for shorts
- 33:20because the market uh makers will hedge
- 33:24in the direction of the market itself.
- 33:27So, for the macroeconomic events, um for
- 33:30instance, what you definitely need to
- 33:32know about is just in general the events
- 33:34calendar, right? You need to know where
- 33:37is uh what is happening throughout the
- 33:39day, when are the next um significant
- 33:42events. For example, on Tuesday the
- 33:4426th, you will have CB consumer
- 33:47confidence.
- 33:48Um on Thursday, you will have personal
- 33:50income, etc. etc. So, these are just in
- 33:53general the things you need to know
- 33:54about.
- 33:56And of course, earnings, so you just
- 33:57know um when the next earnings are and
- 34:00if this if these are earnings about um
- 34:03or of significant stocks that can move
- 34:07the indices if you're trading indices,
- 34:09of course. Um it's lesser important if
- 34:12you're trading other futures like
- 34:14commodities, but uh we specially focus
- 34:18on indices, so this is important for us.
- 34:20Or you can have something like that that
- 34:22like that like an earnings chart just in
- 34:24general, so you have a
- 34:26overview of what you try to look at,
- 34:28what the information that is um
- 34:30important and interesting for the day,
- 34:32right? So, there's earnings, there's the
- 34:34events calendar,
- 34:35and of course, the headlines.
- 34:38>> As an example, Manuel, let's say a
- 34:41trader
- 34:42gets this information,
- 34:44simplify it. They have three bullish
- 34:48news or macroeconomic pieces of info and
- 34:51three bearish.
- 34:54How does someone take this news, compile
- 34:56it all together,
- 34:58and actually have it affect and improve
- 35:01their decision-making?
- 35:02>> Yeah, that's a really good question. For
- 35:04example, the example you gave, three
- 35:06bullish news, three bearish news, it can
- 35:07be very
- 35:09um off-putting, right? You don't know
- 35:11what's important right now, how do you
- 35:13weigh
- 35:14um these these things? And what I want
- 35:17would look at, um
- 35:19if you had six headlines during the day,
- 35:22you look at the VIX index.
- 35:24If you look at the VIX, what you can see
- 35:27is
- 35:28did the volatility spike,
- 35:30or did it not spike? The VIX measures
- 35:33the volatility for the S&P 500 index.
- 35:37So, just by looking at that, that's the
- 35:39simplest way of telling if the market is
- 35:44putting significance to the news in
- 35:46general, or not. And what you can also
- 35:49know is that if the VIX spikes during
- 35:51the day, maybe 5%, 7%, or more,
- 35:56then most probably not you don't have to
- 35:58look at the charge at chart, but you
- 36:00most probably know
- 36:02the chart the market will be down.
- 36:05If the VIX
- 36:05>> Mhm.
- 36:06>> goes down,
- 36:07then you not even by looking at the
- 36:09chart, you know the market might be in a
- 36:11range or be supported and go um trending
- 36:14long.
- 36:16And
- 36:17that's the the best indicator of knowing
- 36:20if a news event triggered something
- 36:22significant that market participants
- 36:25really um
- 36:26pay attention to, or price in at the
- 36:29moment and is relevant for you. So now
- 36:32you can reverse engineer for example and
- 36:34see okay,
- 36:36the VIX spiked 10% what news came out
- 36:39today and then you see a big headline
- 36:41and you know that's
- 36:43an important information that moved the
- 36:45market today, right? So this is how I
- 36:47would go about it for example to show
- 36:49you that now and if you want to have
- 36:52free resources where you can see
- 36:55ideas on how markets move, you just get
- 36:59analyst reports for free for example on
- 37:01investing.com or Finviz.
- 37:04>> Can we go back to the chart and see
- 37:06exactly how does Manwell now tie all of
- 37:10this together?
- 37:11>> The approach here to just keep it very
- 37:14simple is for example if the market
- 37:17tomorrow
- 37:18will open in that range we're trading
- 37:21right now and it tests and we see
- 37:23pre-market for example we see the London
- 37:26session did the dip down here, we had
- 37:29the
- 37:30we had the a rejection of that level
- 37:32tested the highs and trading above the
- 37:35highs
- 37:36what we want to see for the US open
- 37:40is if these highs will be hold or held
- 37:45and the market trades above these so we
- 37:48can continue higher accepts the 30,000
- 37:51level which is also I have to mention a
- 37:53very strong cycle logical level where
- 37:56the market tends to react and we break
- 37:58above that and hold these prices, we
- 38:00will definitely trade the long
- 38:02continuation
- 38:03and we are looking for longs.
- 38:05If the market
- 38:08during US open
- 38:10doesn't accept the higher prices,
- 38:11rejects the 30,000 and we are trading
- 38:15here and accepting these prices fill the
- 38:17volume at that prices and we come down
- 38:20beneath the call wall we were looking
- 38:22at,
- 38:24then the long is definitely
- 38:26over, and we will be looking for shorts.
- 38:29If that comes together with a headline,
- 38:32which is already brewing, for example,
- 38:34just to put it into context, that there
- 38:36is, for example, no deal between Iran
- 38:39and the US, and oil spikes back to 100
- 38:43or more,
- 38:44then we will definitely have risk on.
- 38:47Most probably definitely is a tricky
- 38:49word in trading. Most probably have risk
- 38:52on, and looking for shorts during the
- 38:55day, accepting the range again, most
- 38:57probably be beneath the call wall, and
- 39:00we're looking for prices back to 29,500,
- 39:03for example, back to that support.
- 39:08So, this is how I put it together, and
- 39:11to confirm the exact entry,
- 39:14I will, of course, look at a different
- 39:16chart, for example,
- 39:19a range chart like this,
- 39:22to have a more granular view.
- 39:25Just you so you can see it, this right
- 39:28here,
- 39:29what you can see is the range here in
- 39:31the 30 minutes.
- 39:32So, what you know is
- 39:36what you can see here is
- 39:37the order flow on a more granular view,
- 39:40right? You see the red and blue or green
- 39:42bubbles.
- 39:43So, you can see where buyers are
- 39:45aggressive, where sellers are
- 39:46aggressive, and where we had a typical
- 39:50absorption followed by aggression from
- 39:53the other side. This is when, for
- 39:55example, I have these blue levels or red
- 39:58levels here drawn,
- 40:00when there's absorption and aggression
- 40:01on the other side, which is typically a
- 40:04entry signal for me. So, for example,
- 40:07what you can see here is the market
- 40:09already dipped into that low volume area
- 40:14today,
- 40:15and rejected that price exactly at that
- 40:18level that has been drawn.
- 40:21So, what we are going to look at
- 40:23is when the market comes back to that
- 40:25level and we already established that
- 40:26this is an area of interest because of
- 40:29the low volume and the long context, we
- 40:31will look for a long again when the
- 40:33market is approaching here and best case
- 40:36we see a red bubble a red dot like that
- 40:39which shows us aggressive on the sell
- 40:41side
- 40:42aggression on the sell side but
- 40:44absorption so then we can look for the
- 40:46move higher. This is how I will on a
- 40:49granular view
- 40:51look for an entry level
- 40:54and it has to be supported by the
- 40:56cumulative delta
- 40:58and the demand index. So, I only want to
- 41:00trade longs if the demand index as an
- 41:03indicator trades over
- 41:06the zero line
- 41:08and the cumulative delta trades
- 41:12positive in a positive trend. And this
- 41:15is what I was saying in the beginning,
- 41:17I'm not a fan of these technical
- 41:18indicators, Bollinger Bands, etc. just
- 41:21for trading itself but you can use it if
- 41:24you know how to use it for example for
- 41:25the cumulative delta just to filter it
- 41:28better. You know, when we are really
- 41:30high trending and the cumulative delta
- 41:32so the net buying is higher than the net
- 41:35selling. It supports our long idea even
- 41:38when the market retraces, right? Because
- 41:40when the market retraces and we get an
- 41:42absorption here
- 41:43but the demand index is strong which
- 41:45also matters part partly the cumulative
- 41:48delta and the cumulative delta is for
- 41:50example over our
- 41:53um
- 41:54Bollinger Bands in that cumulative
- 41:56delta, we know we still have net buying
- 42:00and it supports our long idea after the
- 42:02pullback and we can trade this long at
- 42:04our designated level. There's a lot of
- 42:06moving parts here. For a new trader,
- 42:08which three are the most critical pieces
- 42:10to this entire plan? The most critical
- 42:12pieces for the entire plan is volume
- 42:14profile. You should definitely have that
- 42:16and I think that's the easiest to and to
- 42:18access.
- 42:19Uh the most accessible like um volume
- 42:22profile and CBD uh to just to confirm
- 42:25trades. Also footprint chart to uh see
- 42:28the order flow which we had here with
- 42:31the bubbles. You can also see that with
- 42:33the
- 42:33um with the with the footprint chart and
- 42:36I would say this is something you need
- 42:37to learn before you look at anything
- 42:39else. Then you can decide which one you
- 42:41like better. Maybe you're more of the
- 42:42visual type and you need the bubbles.
- 42:45Maybe you're more
- 42:47numbers guy then you are fine with the
- 42:49footprint chart. But you need to
- 42:50understand it. You need to see and
- 42:52understand what it shows you just to
- 42:53confirm trades. So I would say this,
- 42:56order flow tools in general, volume
- 42:58profile, and gamma regime.
- 43:01And if you
- 43:03um
- 43:05want if you if you want to have a very
- 43:08um
- 43:10like um just a understanding where we
- 43:13might be in the gamma world. Then you
- 43:16look at VIX. If the VIX is high, you can
- 43:20just very simple speaking, right? This
- 43:23is not um
- 43:25um this is not really the correct way to
- 43:27look at it. But just simply speaking, if
- 43:30the VIX is high, you can
- 43:31um
- 43:32say with a high probability that the
- 43:34gamma will be negative in general. So
- 43:37the market tends to move more. It's um
- 43:40higher realized volatility. If the VIX
- 43:43is low
- 43:44um or under or at the historic average
- 43:47of of a price of 17, then you know the
- 43:51market will not be making crazy moves
- 43:54today. It will be in a
- 43:57normal range. The realized volatility
- 43:59will be very normal and you can um work
- 44:02with that. Man, well, you've got a lot
- 44:04of moving parts in your system. You've
- 44:06been doing this a long time. We haven't
- 44:08talked about risk management yet. You
- 44:10said you have a two loss stop rule. This
- 44:13means if you have two losing trades in a
- 44:16single session, why is that rule
- 44:18important?
- 44:18>> It's important for me, I would say,
- 44:20because what I realized throughout the
- 44:22years, either you want it or not, you
- 44:24will be affected by the
- 44:26losing trades. By having two losing
- 44:28trades, this is usually more than enough
- 44:31because what most people are doing after
- 44:33that is not trading the market
- 44:35objectively anymore, but subjectively or
- 44:38are fighting with the market.
- 44:40And that's when they blow their account.
- 44:41That's when they reach their drawdown.
- 44:43So,
- 44:44most of the drawdowns, and I also see
- 44:46that with working with our clients, and
- 44:48I know for myself as well,
- 44:50do not come from
- 44:52a wrong trading approach. The trading
- 44:54approach might be fine, might be great.
- 44:57It might be a really good analysis,
- 44:59really good entries, exits.
- 45:01But, the blowing of accounts, of funded
- 45:04accounts, for example, only happens when
- 45:08they're trading emotionally after
- 45:11losing trades, when they try to make it
- 45:13back because they want to end the day in
- 45:15the green.
- 45:16But, what they don't realize is that if
- 45:19they just took the loss,
- 45:21end the day in the red, they would still
- 45:23have their account,
- 45:24and the self-esteem would be still high
- 45:28because the next day you have another
- 45:30chance, right? The market is open the
- 45:32next day, the next week, the next year.
- 45:34And this is something you really have to
- 45:37um
- 45:37get into your mind again and again
- 45:39because
- 45:40um it's not about today. It's not about
- 45:42the next trade. It's not about having
- 45:44the the green day every day. It's about
- 45:47knowing when to stop, and when you don't
- 45:49do that, and most people don't do that
- 45:51if they don't have this hard rule,
- 45:53um then they will eventually blow their
- 45:56accounts
- 45:57at every day. Even if they have one or
- 45:59two months of consistency, they will
- 46:01blow it eventually. And this is
- 46:03something we will definitely have to
- 46:06as a discretionary trader, we have to
- 46:09just eliminate completely because even
- 46:12after a year, something like that could
- 46:14happen to you. Maybe you have a bad day.
- 46:16So, you need to have a hard stop. You
- 46:17need to have a rule for the day that
- 46:19just doesn't allow you to trade any
- 46:21more. And for me, it's after two trades.
- 46:23That's um
- 46:25that are consecutively
- 46:27losing trades because then
- 46:30you just know you're not in the right
- 46:33state of mind anymore.
- 46:34>> This depends on position sizing also.
- 46:38How do you size positions?
- 46:40>> So, position sizing for me is um it's a
- 46:43very important topic because it's
- 46:44important that you really have a
- 46:47professional position sizing of maximum
- 46:491% loss um or account size per trade.
- 46:54So, this is what I try to um definitely
- 46:58um
- 46:59hold myself
- 47:01to as well.
- 47:02>> Do you use fixed position sizing,
- 47:05dynamic? Does it depend on the trade?
- 47:08>> So, my position sizing is it depends on
- 47:10the trade. I try to position size the
- 47:13position um on a absolute amount, always
- 47:17the same, right? The amount is the same.
- 47:20But um I can size differently with um
- 47:25if I go in with more contracts or less
- 47:27contracts based on how big the stop loss
- 47:31has to be for the trade because that's
- 47:34dynamic. I don't use a fixed stop loss.
- 47:36I only look at
- 47:39uh my risk reward. If the risk reward is
- 47:42um
- 47:42is uh in a in good terms, like two to
- 47:44one, for example, more more than two to
- 47:47one is always good for me,
- 47:49then I will place the trade if the
- 47:51amount
- 47:53um exceeds just because the the stop
- 47:57loss has to be so long um by one and I
- 48:00only trade one lot for example and it
- 48:02exceeds my max position um loss then I
- 48:06can't of course take it. Maybe I have to
- 48:08do
- 48:08um I can't do the trade or if this
- 48:12or if the stop loss is um
- 48:14short enough I can put on more contracts
- 48:18because I will still be in the same um
- 48:20max loss amount for the trade.
- 48:22>> How do you determine where to place your
- 48:24stop loss?
- 48:25>> So the stop loss usually gets placed
- 48:28beneath the or um above the absorption
- 48:31that happened. Because this is the uh
- 48:33the area where when the market moves
- 48:36lower or higher the trade in general
- 48:39will be invalidated.
- 48:41Or second option is um the volume
- 48:45profile that I use and I just place the
- 48:47stop between the last
- 48:50support or resistance based on the
- 48:52volume profile which we talked about in
- 48:54the beginning the areas of interest, the
- 48:56high volume nodes.
- 48:57>> And where do you determine your profit
- 48:59target?
- 49:00>> The profit target is also dynamic but
- 49:02usually it's the next option level, the
- 49:04next call wall, the next gamma flip,
- 49:06whatever but um
- 49:08I will go for the for the option levels
- 49:11as a target.
- 49:13>> Is there any
- 49:14reward to risk that you're not willing
- 49:16to take?
- 49:17>> Yes um everything that's just one to
- 49:20one, 1.5 to one depends on the quality
- 49:23of the trades uh of the entry
- 49:26but um in general I try to strive for
- 49:29two to one at least.
- 49:31>> So the risk then is always defined by
- 49:34levels. So just to be clear Manuel, if
- 49:36the stop loss is further from your
- 49:38entry, does this directly affect
- 49:39position sizing?
- 49:41>> Yes, definitely. So I always um look to
- 49:44risk the same amount per trade and if
- 49:46the stop loss is um bigger or longer
- 49:50then I will definitely size down
- 49:52or if the stop loss is too long that I
- 49:54can't be in my fixed max amount per
- 49:57trade,
- 49:58then I won't take the trade even if the
- 50:00setup might hold up.
- 50:02>> Do you think entries or exits are more
- 50:03important for new traders?
- 50:05>> I would say at first you have to master
- 50:08the entries of course,
- 50:10but generally speaking the exits um
- 50:13are more important because what I see
- 50:15is that a lot of traders
- 50:18are having good trades sometimes, but
- 50:21they take profit too early because they
- 50:23are scared of uh losing the amount they
- 50:26earned already.
- 50:27So, maybe they initially have a good
- 50:31um risk reward, they have a good entry,
- 50:34but
- 50:35when you um look at their performance in
- 50:38in general, they always take the full
- 50:40amount of risk,
- 50:42take the full stop,
- 50:44but limit themselves or cap their
- 50:46positions on the winning side. So, this
- 50:49is the actual problem, but the trade
- 50:51might have moved way longer.
- 50:53So, what they um are missing out on is
- 50:55their actual the the profits they would
- 50:57have had.
- 50:59So, um the entry to get the entry right
- 51:01is not that hard. I think the exit is
- 51:03harder. So, the focus should probably be
- 51:06on the exit to do that correctly right
- 51:08from the beginning.
- 51:09>> So, you say you started trading early,
- 51:11went through a period of a significant
- 51:13gain and a significant loss. Now, would
- 51:16you say your experience plays a bigger
- 51:18role in keeping your emotions under
- 51:20control
- 51:22or the risk management procedure that
- 51:24you have in place?
- 51:25>> I think it's the it's both, but it's the
- 51:28risk management procedure. Because you
- 51:30can have a lot of experience in the
- 51:31market and still be emotional. Maybe
- 51:33you're just an emotional person in
- 51:35general, and uh you tend to
- 51:38um
- 51:40have something triggered when you have a
- 51:41losing trade. For example, it's
- 51:43something I mean, you can get really
- 51:45deep down on that, but uh maybe
- 51:46something about your title then you you
- 51:48would trigger a a certain feeling when
- 51:50you have a losing trade and then you
- 51:52react emotionally. So, you might have 10
- 51:54years of experience, but you can still
- 51:57not be a profitable trader only because
- 51:59of that. So, a fixed risk um
- 52:03determination for your trading approach
- 52:05is
- 52:06necessary and if you don't have that, um
- 52:09you won't be able to make it. That's for
- 52:11sure.
- 52:12>> Manuel, thank you so much for your time.
- 52:14This has been excellent. Tons of
- 52:17information for traders of all skill
- 52:20levels and I'd love to have you back on
- 52:23in a future interview.
- 52:25>> I would love that.
- 52:26>> Thank you for your time again. IQ
- 52:28Capital community, that's going to be it
- 52:30for this interview. I hope you enjoyed
- 52:32it. Let us know in the comments below
- 52:34and you can try your first challenge on
- 52:37IQ Capital for as little as $1.
- 52:40Check out the link in the description.
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