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The Eva Schloss Story: A Holocaust Survivor's Journey - In Conversation with Dr. Ralph Snyderman — Transcript

by Dr. Ralph Snyderman · 11,874 words · 1,653 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:10I would like to greet our interlocutor
0:12for the evening Dr Ralph Sniderman who
0:14will introduce us to
0:16Eva Dr Sniderman is chancellor ameritus
0:20James B Duke professor of medicine and
0:22director of the center for personalized
0:25healthare at Duke University Dr snidman
0:28also served as Duke's chair Chancellor
0:30for health Affairs and Dean of the
0:32school of medicine for 15 years and was
0:35the founding CEO of Duke University
0:37Health System we are honored to have you
0:39here with us tonight to facilitate this
0:42momentous
0:47[Applause]
0:50occasion thank you kabad thank you Zin
0:53for allowing me to be here with you at
0:56this very special historic moment
1:00this is we've we've heard the word
1:02historic several times uh tonight we are
1:06here to talk about and to try to
1:10understand at least a little bit more
1:12about the
1:14Holocaust for me a physician scientist
1:17over and above the horrors that you have
1:20seen that many of us know about we will
1:23discuss to a degree tonight was the
1:26intention behind it the Diabolical
1:30intention behind it we unfortunately are
1:33swamped with so many atrocities
1:35atrocities are all around us but what
1:38was so different about this atrocity in
1:41addition to the numbers it was the
1:44intent of a presumed civilized highly
1:49cultured
1:51civilization to solve the Jewish
1:55Problem by eliminating the entire Je
2:00genetic pull of what is
2:03Jewish with scientific intent to
2:06identify every inherited
2:09characteristic of what makes an
2:11individual a Jew and to eliminate it
2:14incredibly
2:17diabolic Zan uh made reference to
2:21Passover which is coming up very very
2:24soon the major message of Passover Zan
2:29gave his Concepts about it but what I
2:32want to say very specifically because I
2:35want to try to reach every one of you
2:38deep in your hearts and Minds as to why
2:41you are here tonight why are you here
2:44tonight you could have been in so many
2:45different places but you chose to be
2:48here
2:50tonight in Passover what we have been
2:53saying for over 3,000 years is that
2:57everybody around that table should
3:00experience The Exodus From Slavery until
3:04Freedom as though they had been
3:07there it's less telling the story than
3:11experiencing the story living the story
3:15so this is my challenge to everybody in
3:18this magnificent
3:20audience take a deep breath or two get
3:23into your breath for a moment and
3:25appreciate why you're
3:27here you're here because you have an
3:32opportunity an opportunity to live in a
3:36sense by cariously through somebody who
3:40actually experienced the Holocaust from
3:44before it
3:45happened while it happened after it
3:49happened and then to achieve the
3:52enlightenment that this individual's
3:55life's Mission or one of her missions
3:57was to tell that story
4:00and our responsibility is to live that
4:03story as best we can as though we were
4:07there through the eyes and the the the
4:10history that we will hear from
4:14evlas so uh Mrs evish SLO is the
4:20stepsister and childhood friend of an
4:22Frank we'll we'll talk about that a bit
4:25later she is also the trustee of the ant
4:28Frank educational trust the author of
4:30three books and the subject of James
4:34Still's play and then they came for me
4:39remembering the world of an
4:42Frank in many ways evaas enables Anne
4:47Frank and her story to live today so we
4:50really have two stories we have either
4:53schlo and the carrying on of the memory
4:57and the story of an Frank
5:00since 1985 Eva schlo has devoted herself
5:04to Holocaust Education and Global Peace
5:08she recounted her wartime experiences in
5:11more than 1,000 speaking
5:15engagements but tonight's going to be
5:17very very special and it's going to be
5:19so special because you here you're here
5:22it's the only time that this will have
5:24happened in 1999 she signed the
5:27annefrank peace declaration
5:30along with the United Nations secretary
5:34kofana tonight we will share together
5:38the story of the Holocaust through Eva's
5:43Recollections and please join me in
5:46welcoming evish to
5:54[Applause]
6:06[Music]
6:07[Applause]
6:17[Music]
6:23well so good to have you here I had a
6:26chance to speak with Eva for about an
6:29hour and I feel very very Hamish with
6:31her as though were old friends ready and
6:34I'm looking forward to hearing the story
6:38from from you so to to start if we think
6:43of this as a as a voyage starting in
6:471929 until now you were born in 1929 in
6:52Vienna your father was a shoe
6:55manufacturer you actually grew up in
6:58reasonably
6:59good environment uh look beautiful house
7:02to me absolutely beautiful Quarter House
7:06you had uh your your mother fritzy MTI
7:09your father uh Eric py and your brother
7:12hin could you give us a description of
7:15what was it like growing up in Vienna
7:18before Hitler had his major impact on
7:21the country and then maybe what Chang
7:24and changed the whole life of many many
7:27many millions of people um well like you
7:31said we had a a very we were very lucky
7:34we had a good good home a good family
7:37wonderful parents a great brother
7:40wonderful grandparents as well and um a
7:43nice country with bound and lakes and um
7:48I really took to it I was very sportive
7:51with my father together we did in the
7:53winter we did mountain climbing I was
7:56quite a brave little girl um in until
7:59then skiing not um um on a ski lift up
8:04and down but we uh packed the bpack with
8:08our lunch and we spend the morning
8:10climbing up a mountain with skins on our
8:13skin ever so that Li and when we got to
8:17the top we had our lunch and then we
8:19came down that was a whole Excursion not
8:22up and down on
8:24a and um you know I I just love
8:28everything but unfortunately when Hitler
8:31marched in without permission without
8:34warning life changed for not just for
8:37our family but for all the Jewish
8:40people and the austrians changed
8:43overnight they became more Nazis EV in
8:47Germany and they stood with a swaser
8:50flexs waving and their hand uised child
8:54Hitler and from day one Jewish people
8:58was pulled out of their homes and beaten
9:01up um but I remember very clearly my
9:04brother was 12 years old he came home he
9:07was badly badly beaten blood blood was
9:11streaming from his nose and his uh he
9:14looked really terrible and when my
9:16parents questioned him he said my own
9:20friends did that and the teachers just
9:22watched them and it happen this was the
9:25situation from one day to the next one
9:28of the points that you made to me when
9:30we were talking is that individuals in
9:34viena that were your friends that were
9:35not Jewish and they they were your
9:37acquaintance that your friends once it
9:40became acceptable and maybe even
9:42expected to be anti-semitic they turned
9:45out to be Nazis and you just comment
9:49about that that people that you knew
9:51that you were friends with what was it
9:53like to see them turn and and what did
9:57that teach you well because you know we
10:00just couldn't believe it a couple of
10:02days before my parents had made
10:04Excursion with them a dinner with them
10:06went to the SE and got a little bit
10:09drunk perhaps even and and um the next
10:14day she didn't want to talk with us
10:16anymore they ignored us and um you know
10:20as if as if we had been committed a
10:23terrible kind yeah it it was really a
10:27counter shock now you your parents were
10:30very intelligent people uh very much in
10:33control of their themselves and their
10:35lives I imagine before Hitler actually
10:40uh invaded Austria it became obvious
10:44that very very likely Jews needed to get
10:47out of there could you tell us a bit
10:49about what it was like and what your
10:51father did to be able to get you out of
10:54Austria um what would you tell me Well
10:58my father obviously we you know they
11:00didn't discuss this with us children of
11:02course parents didn't want to frighten
11:04us so life seemed as if it was going to
11:08go on like normal but in the meantime my
11:11father he was exporting to the
11:13Netherlands there was a big shoe
11:15industry there and obviously I only
11:18heard that later he exported let's say
11:21for um 10,000 Shilling and left uh 5,000
11:27in Holland and only kept the money back
11:31for half of his export so he built up a
11:34little capital in Holland so because you
11:37know this was a big big problem because
11:40once people if they were lucky enough
11:42they able to get out they were not
11:45allowed to take anything with them no
11:47money no juile just a small suitcase
11:50with some of their clothes and you know
11:53it is difficult to go in a new land to
11:55start a new job with a family family if
11:59if you have no resources so this of
12:01course obviously must have helped my
12:03father to carry on a
12:05business and um so he he went
12:09immediately that was stillo possible but
12:12when we wanted to follow the Germans and
12:15that other countries at those borders
12:18and that was whole the whole tragedy of
12:21the Holocaust that by 1938 39 Jewish
12:25people from those occupied country like
12:28AIA they Czechoslovakia they're not able
12:32to get out of the country anymore and
12:35then Hitler realized that nobody want
12:37Jews so if I'm going to kill them nobody
12:41was going to lift a finger or stop it or
12:43even feel sorry and this is really what
12:48happened did your father try to come to
12:51the United States or to to England um no
12:54I don't think so so his sister uh her
12:58her husband was for working for big
13:02publisher fight on this and they were
13:05able to get out so my father had family
13:08in England but um as he had Connection
13:11in the Netherlands I think he and
13:13unfortunately many people saw because in
13:17the first world war Holland was bypassed
13:21and people assume that will happen again
13:24so Holland was considered a safe country
13:27in the beginning but it was enough cost
13:30now you you indicate that before you
13:32left it was obvious that you were going
13:34to be leaving and you couldn't take uh
13:36money with you it was very difficult to
13:39take possessions but your parents uh
13:42went shopping and bought a lot of things
13:44and in your book which I recommend to
13:47everybody Amazon.com or whatever this is
13:50a fantastic book Eva story you indicate
13:54that your mother took you shopping and
13:56she bought you clothing that you thought
13:59it would be very fashionable in Holland
14:02uh but you didn't think it was
14:04particularly pretty nor did you want to
14:06wear it so could you tell us that story
14:08yeah well my mother she was quite
14:10fashionable but as a child I didn't want
14:13to draw attention to myself and she
14:15bought an orange coat with a Scottish um
14:20hat and and I just hated it the minute
14:23she came home with it and I said I'm not
14:26going to wear it and I was actually was
14:29in May um St at to a very St stubborn
14:33child and I really never was a child
14:37till my mother had died mayy
14:44Blue from the very beginning yeah yeah I
14:47was so in 1938 so you were born in 29
14:511938 June uh you went uh from Austria to
14:56braa
14:57harand uh so you you went from living
15:01quite well in Vienna to living in Vienna
15:05but being persecuted as a Jew and now
15:10you are taking another step going to a
15:13foreign country having to give up your
15:15citizenship to a foreign country number
15:18one how did you feel about that and
15:21could you describe your life what it was
15:23like living in Holland before the war
15:27well like the most difficult thing for
15:30children was that they didn't know the
15:32language of the country where they were
15:34going to live and um you know that is
15:37very very difficult you can't make
15:39friends you can't make yourself
15:41understood and um so we became actually
15:45very shy and strong especially having
15:49experienced anti-Semitism already so um
15:53my whole way of of thinking I became
15:57actually withdrawn and and um and which
16:01I wasn't before so my whole personality
16:04changed within a few
16:08months at that time during that period
16:10of time um
16:13you uh got to know and Frank and uh if
16:18you don't mind I'll read something from
16:20your book that I found very very
16:23interesting you know given the fact that
16:26Ava schlass is in a sense the voice of
16:29Frank what were they like uh how did
16:32they get along with each other were they
16:34similar or different so this is directly
16:37from your book so I assume it's almost
16:40prob okay so one day uh she was ready
16:45had opinions about what she wore you
16:47know that already she didn't like orange
16:49and weing this Scotch hat so U once when
16:53Muti which is what she calls her mother
16:56had taken me to the local dress maker to
16:59have a Cod alter we were sitting waiting
17:02our turn and hear the dress maker
17:04talking to her customer inside the
17:07fitting room the customer was very
17:10determined to have things just right it
17:13would look better with a larger shoulder
17:15patch we could hear us saying in an
17:18authoritarian toner voice and the
17:20hemline should be just a little bit
17:22higher don't you think when the dress
17:26maker uh agreeing with her I sat there
17:29wishing I was allowed to choose exactly
17:32what I wanted to wear I was
17:34flabbergasted when the curtains were
17:36drawn back and there was an all alone
17:39making decisions about her own dress it
17:42was peach colored with a green trim she
17:46smiled at me and she said do you like it
17:49twirling around oh yes I said
17:52breathlessly in great Envy I was not up
17:55to that standard
17:59she was much that well you know she came
18:02already when she was 4 years old to um
18:05Holland um spoke Dutch already perfectly
18:08well and she really become a Dutch
18:11little girl and was quite sure of
18:14herself so what what type of
18:16relationship did you have with her
18:19during that per well we met with her
18:20both 11 and um that is what people did
18:24at the time after school we went out in
18:27the street on this big square and um we
18:30played games like skipping hop Scots um
18:36um marbles was very very popular with
18:39all over and bicycle everybody had the
18:42bicycle of course in Amsterdam and um
18:45there were boys and girls and Anna was
18:48very very like you see Vis she she
18:51wanted to put very smart and to attract
18:55boys and um when I told her I had an
18:58older brother
18:59her eyes her eyes became very big and
19:02she said Thank can I come and meet
19:05him was not interested in a little girl
19:08the age of his sister you know he was
19:11looking for his own age we speak a lot
19:15more about Hines who was a remarkable
19:17individual your brother a little bit
19:19older than you so if we think about this
19:22as a
19:23timeline uh on May 10th
19:271940 uh Germany invaded
19:30Holland and from from that time on you
19:33were a Jew in Holland living
19:38freely but it was obvious
19:41already many many yeah so that's what
19:44I'm interested what were the
19:45restrictions that started coming about
19:48even before the Nazis invaded power oh
19:52that's not we were free we could do
19:55everything but as soon as it came in
19:58this
19:59um you know we were very much afraid
20:01that perhaps the population would go
20:03against us like in Austria but it was
20:06not the case on the contrary the Dutch
20:09all said don't worry they are going to
20:11protect you you belong to us and so on
20:14but they didn't count on the viciousness
20:17of the
20:18Nazis and um so um the first year it
20:22became um difficult but not less could
20:27you speak loud
20:31Hear Me
20:34microphone okay
20:36okay um
20:38so um yeah
20:42so we're talking about the increasing
20:44restrictions yeah um it was it was a
20:47usance um we were not allowed to go the
20:51public transport but the old bicycles we
20:54had to head in our radios we were not
20:56allowed to go early out in the morning
20:58morning shopping or 8:00 so that's a
21:01coffe for Jewish people then we had to
21:04wear the yellow sta which became already
21:07a little bit more dangerous but
21:11[Music]
21:20so I hope this is better I said I can he
21:24myself better
21:26now can can you you better
21:29[Applause]
21:32[Music]
21:34now the wrong
21:37side okay so uh we were not allowed to
21:40go to seat or to concerts but for us
21:44children was um now I think it was
21:46really very childish but at the time the
21:49first um Disney film still by the Seven
21:52Dwarves came out and all the non-jewish
21:55children of course went to see that and
21:58that was the to of the town and Jewish
22:00children were not allowed begging Jewish
22:04children were not allowed to go to
22:06se that's
22:11[Music]
22:14me
22:16perhaps I don't know a
22:27from maybe
22:30uh something in
22:39[Music]
22:47[Music]
22:49between um so uh so everybody older
22:54children saw Snowman and the Seven
22:56Dwarves and the Jewish children didn't
22:57see it and you know for us children when
23:00we were 11 12 years old that was that
23:03was very very bad and um so but slowly
23:07the measures became more dangerous for
23:10instance we had to go to Jewish school
23:13leave our own schools and what happened
23:16there the Germans wanted really to
23:18especially wanted all the young people
23:21and so they went service trucks and um
23:25told for instance when into a classroom
23:26told the children to go down on the
23:29truck and in the evening the parents
23:31waited for the children to come home and
23:34they never turned up can you imagine
23:37they went to the police plus the dut
23:39police then the Nazi police the gapo and
23:43never got any information those children
23:46were never ever seen again only after
23:49the war did were here they were murdered
23:52in Mount hous which was a horrific
23:55Austrian
23:57Des in in July 2nd
24:011942 Hines was instructed to was uh
24:06instructed to be deported so that was uh
24:10a line in the sand that was obvious that
24:13something needed to be done and your
24:15family went into hiding you were
24:18separated from your father and your
24:21brother uh that lasted for a
24:23considerable period of time could you
24:25give us some feeling for what it was
24:27like when you went into
24:29hiding well um H and many many uh about
24:3410,000 young people included an
24:37frano and that is when the Frank family
24:40went to hiding and exactly the same time
24:42as we did we didn't tell each other
24:45because you know as I said the duts were
24:47very good but nevertheless there was a
24:50big Nazi party there as well and you
24:53didn't always know who you could trust
24:56so you just did the six for your own and
24:58never even talked about it so um my
25:02father called us together and he said um
25:05I found wonderful Dutch people who are
25:08going to help us to keep safe to offer
25:11us their homes we're going to stay with
25:14them but I couldn't find one family who
25:17wanted to take in four people so he told
25:20my I will go with my mother and H will
25:23go with him and I started to cry I was
25:26very very attached to my brother and um
25:30and my father and um so my father
25:33explained if they in two different
25:35places the chance that two of us will
25:38survive is bigger and this was the first
25:42time we had been survive and I was 13
25:46and I realized it might be a matter of
25:50life and death which it was of course
25:53and this was very very frightening for a
25:55certain year old and from then
25:58you know my attitude to the whole period
26:01changed
26:01[Music]
26:02dramatically on May
26:071944 your 15th birthday a birthday party
26:11in the
26:12morning you were presumably within the
26:18limitations God knows what's going to
26:20happen
26:25now okay yes I think that will work okay
26:28so look at you I
26:33speak so birthday
26:36party um you were still in hiding and
26:39all of a sudden the doorbell ran I'll
26:43read you directly from the book a sudden
26:46ring of the doorbells startled us we
26:49were not expecting anyone who was
26:52calling at that that time of the
26:54morning Mr ritma got up from the table
26:57and went down stairs to open the door to
27:00our sickening horror we heard the
27:03Gestapo storming
27:05in what was your feeling at that moment
27:09at that moment we were in shock and
27:13uncomprehensible how could this happen
27:16how did they know where we were and it
27:19turned out that we were betrayed by a
27:22Dutch nurse who was a double AED it's a
27:26bit of complicated story but this is
27:29what happened my father and brother had
27:31to change we were about in seven
27:33different hiding places in those two
27:36years and my father and brother as well
27:39and they had just changed and to a house
27:43where this not tnas took some and um she
27:48was actually a Nazi and and we had
27:52visited them that day and they had
27:54followed us so very aine and and um they
27:59knew everywhere and so they took us
28:02away so you were arrested all four of
28:07ending shock ending shock total shock
28:10and within I think a few days you found
28:15yourself having again started from
28:18Vienna now you were arrested by the
28:22gapo in Holland put on a cattle car with
28:28as we heard tremendous number of people
28:30I mean un unbearable un imaginable
28:34conditions finding yourself still the
28:37four of you in
28:39aitz finally getting off the train maybe
28:43feeling some degree of relief and then
28:46being on a truck with the four of you
28:48going to
28:50aitz and I'll read something from your
28:52book that I thought was the most
28:54poignant difficult to read I'm almost
28:59sorry to have to ask you to relive this
29:02but so this is the moment when they
29:04arrive in
29:06aitz and this is what we hear from Eva
29:09she was instructed by her father and
29:11mother to wear a heavy overcoat and a
29:14hat for reasons we don't need to go into
29:17right now but may have saved her life
29:20and this is what she says very
29:22reluctantly I put the coat on I was sure
29:26I looked silly in the Hat it was a brown
29:29felt and far too grown up for me I would
29:32never wear such a hat by choice you look
29:36a smart young lady now papy said trying
29:38to encourage me Hines gave me a weak
29:43smile he looked petrified his face was
29:46white with fear as he jumped down from
29:48the truck but he turned to help me as I
29:52sprang into his arms I found find found
29:55mine around his neck suddenly we were
29:58were squeezing and hugging each other as
29:59if we could would never see each other
30:02again it took about an hour of unloading
30:05an organization before the women were
30:07ordered to walk towards the front of the
30:09platform while the men were separated
30:12and marched towards the back py grabbed
30:16hold of my hands looked me deeply in the
30:18eye and said God will protect you
30:21Herer Muti clasped Hines close to her
30:26running her fingers through his hair and
30:28kisssing his face then my parents
30:31embraced for the last time before being
30:34forced to turn and walk away from each
30:38other yes you know many many people saw
30:43and many many people never did see their
30:46family again this was of course the most
30:49horrendous
30:52moment so from there he went to burken
30:57out women I guess in biren now the men
30:59in Alit and initially you were put into
31:03quarantine for a few weeks could you
31:05just say again this descent almost
31:08descent into hell what was it like being
31:11there do you have any Recollections of
31:14in a sense how far you fall um yes well
31:18all Humanity was taken away from us so
31:22um first was a selection so the women
31:25stood this Dr manga that doctor a pro
31:30professional medical man was there not
31:33to help people but to decide who was
31:36going to die and who was going to live
31:39and and he did this day in day out he
31:44went to the new transport and we had to
31:47stud the rose of five he looked you over
31:50just for fraction of a second and then
31:53pointed right or
31:56left life this and he did this nearly
32:01every day every day when a transport
32:03came that was what he did um and so we
32:07lost half of our Dutch transport and
32:10luckily my mother and me got through me
32:13actually through the help of his head
32:15and coat because when mang looked at me
32:18he didn't realize how young I was many
32:21many 15 and even 17 year old girls went
32:25the wrong side then we enter into a huge
32:29huge bag and the next command was
32:32Andress completely naked and the Nazis
32:35were walking around poking fun us how
32:38embarrassed we were the next thing was
32:42we all wear tattoos on our arm and they
32:46told us when they were doing it forget
32:48you're a human being um if ever we want
32:52you we just call you out by your number
32:55and um you really like cattle and then
32:59all our hair was shaved eventually we
33:02were Walken outside still
33:05naked and um there were huge heaps of
33:09clothes mountains of clothes all
33:12confiscated from transports and we were
33:15sold one garment that was all we had and
33:19um the next Heat was shoes and we Two
33:22Shoes which of course was never a pair
33:26never anything that fitted and then we
33:28were heard that really like like a group
33:31of sheep or cows into a big bag um three
33:36bus high wood nothing in it and like
33:42cages and that this they told us this is
33:45where you're going to live as long as
33:47you live
33:48here and um very very soon we were
33:51invested with lice and bed bus um
33:56washing was something with which
33:58practically never happened um we were
34:00really filthy um we sty Nails we
34:03stretched our bodies we had uh oils on
34:07our bodies we became
34:09infected um in the morning um we got a
34:14little mug of liquid in the evening a
34:17big chunk of bread and that was it
34:21nothing the whole day and many people
34:24decided Well they want to keep part of
34:27the bread for next day so that had
34:29something but you know they had nowhere
34:32to keep
34:33anything um so the only place was to
34:36sleep on it to put it under your head
34:39but very often not perhaps in the first
34:42few weeks but later on when it slipped
34:45away from your head or your head SLI
34:46from the bread the person who slept next
34:49to you ate it up so you had nothing for
34:52the next day so um and that was a
34:56tragedy as well you know know that
34:58people um really were only for
35:01themselves they didn't harm each other
35:04but they didn't really have compassion
35:06to help other people I think that was
35:08part of the degradation of as human
35:12being we really had to use all our
35:15strength and will to keep
35:19alive following that horrible
35:23experience you were selected to be in a
35:27unit I guess was called Canada a ni a
35:31nickname nickname s of better life and
35:35freedom it was not better and it was not
35:38freedom but at least it the work was not
35:41so hard so tell us what that work was I
35:43thought it was very very interesting
35:46yeah well every transfer which came
35:49every SE what you had with you of course
35:51you close anyways it took away but if we
35:54had your suitcase or a backpack or
35:56whatever you had a bu
35:58you had to leave everything and that was
36:00all collected in a huge huge area of the
36:03camp nicknamed
36:05Canada um and I was picked out and was
36:10my first job really there with many many
36:13thousand of other people to sort it all
36:16out and one of my jobs was to open the
36:19hems of garments because people had
36:22brought all kind of valuables with them
36:25thinking that perhaps they can briard or
36:28something so I found jewelry I found
36:31money um as well many pictures of
36:36children and you know what brought in
36:38the camp and everything we had to hand
36:41over and um and that was actually a
36:45great tragedy because that was when the
36:47H in 1944 June
36:501944 when the Hungarian Jews were picked
36:53up and so they needed more people to
36:56work in this Canada
36:58and so I saw every day thousand of young
37:02women coming and very often there was no
37:05selections with those people and the M
37:08the mar walked straight into the guest
37:12Chambers your question that people
37:15naturally ask an important question is
37:17what did the the the civilization the
37:21civilian population think about what was
37:23going on in how it's working out and you
37:27you have have a little piece in your
37:28book where you say walking from the camp
37:32to Canada let me just read we left we
37:36left the camp receded by a little band
37:39playing marching music we were all
37:42dressed alike but presentably so that
37:44the farmers in the fields would not
37:46think we were treated badly however they
37:49must have been aware of the Armed Gods
37:52guards and dogs that accompanied us
37:54seeing our shaved heads and the gun
37:57strained faces of the older inmates too
38:00many of us appear at halfar for them not
38:03to be aware that something horrible was
38:05happening to us but as most people do
38:09when confronted by things they don't
38:11want to know about they turn the other
38:14way what were your thoughts as you saw
38:17the Polish people working in the fields
38:20as you were being Marg as a prisoner in
38:23a concentration camp well people looked
38:26at them begging you know to perhaps they
38:29could seow um a piece of bread or even
38:33an onion or whatever they just have
38:35because we were really starving but
38:38never ever anybody show
38:43compassion one of the Miracles so to
38:47speak in your experience there was in
38:49June
38:501944 when during that brief lunch break
38:53you had you saw your father py could you
38:57just what that was um in normally of
39:00course when you worked outside you had
39:02no lunch break you had no lunch anyway
39:05so you work really from morning till
39:07late at night but at Canada you could um
39:10there was a lunch break and we did found
39:13we didn't get food but we found lots of
39:15food of course as well in the middle of
39:18the luggage and you were able to sit
39:20down on the ground and eat it and I did
39:24that and I C elect I po W fence I saw a
39:30man walking in a STP uniform you might
39:33have seen that and a hat and so I
39:37couldn't see his face but I realized I
39:40know this man and um he looked a little
39:44bit at me and realized it was my father
39:47and you know this is clearly that didn't
39:50happen to anybody that he was just
39:52working as well across the fence because
39:55out a manap was actually quite far away
39:58from where the women were and he asked
40:01me and there was a guard marching on
40:04that gate but um he asked me um when the
40:07guard was just a little bit away he said
40:11can you can you find cigarettes and
40:13throw it over to me and I I was
40:16surprised because I that we don't smoke
40:19and he said but it's a very valuable
40:22exchange things you can get all kind of
40:25things for cigarettes and did find of
40:28course cigarettes as well and for three
40:30days I saw him and I was able to throw
40:33it over but then I didn't see him
40:37anymore now at one point you described
40:40in October
40:421944 you and your mother Muti were
40:45actually separated by Dr mangala you
40:48were sent on one side and she was sent
40:51somewhere else and you assumed that she
40:53was going to the guest chamber yeah um
40:56because came out of a shower once a week
40:59we were
41:00deloused and um so we could wash them
41:04and um naked we came out again and we
41:07had to walk in front of this Dr manga
41:10and uh he looked you over and when he
41:14decided you had to come to s or to pale
41:18perhaps I don't know um he were takeen
41:21away and so he picked 40 ribbon out of
41:24our Dutch transport and one of them was
41:27mother and those Ren March naked out of
41:30the Barrack um to another Barrack to
41:33wait to be take it to the guest Chambers
41:37we knew
41:39that so can only barely imagine the
41:42feeling that was terrible and when when
41:45he told her this side I just run across
41:49said to goodbye to her and one of the
41:52Nazis with a big stick beat me over the
41:54back and separated us so not even a f i
41:59could say to thinking I would lose my
42:01mother at that
42:03time so here Eva thought really she was
42:07alone in the world even even worse than
42:10things could have been before even
42:12imagined thought that she lost her
42:14mother but from what I understand you
42:17develop very severe frostbite you could
42:20barely walk your your toes were frosted
42:24you were reluctant to go to the hospital
42:26because many people never got out but
42:29you went to the hospital and you had a
42:31very big surprise there could you
42:33describe what happened well it was
42:35actually a bit more complicated because
42:38um by that time it was Mid Winter and um
42:42the Germans knew that the Russians were
42:44approaching and they started to evacuate
42:47the camps it took every day thousands of
42:50people out from ourz be can now and
42:53marched them into Germany and Austria
42:57and so many gods had disappeared as well
43:00and there were you know there were a b c
43:02d Camp many many different camps was all
43:05separated by electrified B fire but when
43:09so many gods had gone the gates were
43:12open and you could go from one place to
43:14the other and then some Dutch people
43:17from our transport came one day from my
43:20PA from from where they were to my part
43:24and they told me that see my mother
43:26alive
43:28and I couldn't believe it I S just
43:31wanted to give me courage but it was
43:34true and she told me where she was in
43:36which part and so I went there and she
43:40was indeed still alive do you remember
43:43what she said to you when she saw you or
43:45what you said to her um well we of
43:48course you know there I had a big one
43:52with the Cod at that time um nothing
43:55underneath and so I looked as if I was
43:58still quite strong but my mother took me
44:01of course it opens it with the cold and
44:03saw more skeleton there so both are
44:07quite shocked about that condition we
44:10wereing so as you indicated at this
44:13point the Russians were moving very
44:17quickly towards the West the Germans
44:19were retreating and for a period of time
44:22the camp was not occupied by German
44:25guards you discovered much there were
44:27still some but it was not so strict
44:30discipline which sometimes we didn't go
44:32out to work you know and um we were much
44:35more free but still we didn't get any
44:38food and many many people died now you
44:41describe a time maybe a little bit after
44:44that when you were able to move freely
44:47throughout the camp looking for food you
44:50came to the uh the cabin where the
44:53German officers stayed found some food
44:56but there's one point in the book that I
44:58thought was really to me very very
45:01inspiring when you were in that uh cabin
45:05where the German officers were and I'll
45:08read from your book a
45:10woman uh forced open the door and she
45:13yelled there's a bear at the gate a bear
45:16at the gate come quickly cautiously we
45:19went outside towards the open gate and
45:22there at the entrance was the
45:24bear a huge being covered from head to
45:28foot in bare skin and with a look of
45:30utter amazement on his face we stood and
45:34stared at each other and then carefully
45:36I edged towards him with joy on my face
45:39our Liberator stood at the entrance to
45:42the camp alone and strong with
45:44outstretched arms I ran to him hugging
45:48against him the Russians had come that
45:51was an amazing
45:54moment but of course he was just a scout
45:57and he had to go again and he left us
46:00again but then after about 10 days the
46:04proper Army
46:05came and this was 27th of January which
46:09is well considered Holocaust Memorial
46:12Day The Liberation of ourz and um very
46:16often people ask me well so you were
46:19free did you sing did you dance are you
46:21happy um well we were glad in one way
46:25but we didn't know but
46:28now and many people still died so it was
46:32not really yet the end of our
46:35s so you were in birkenau and then you
46:39were moved to asz I guess a few days
46:42later that's where the men came well we
46:46just went you know we were free we could
46:48go anywhere but um I decided I would go
46:52and try to find my father and my brother
46:55so would you describe then what it was
46:57like looking for your father and H and
47:00then meeting
47:02OT um well I went through the snow it
47:06was quite you know there was no pass I
47:08just had to try to find it it was very
47:11very difficult there was fierce fight
47:13and the bullets were flying over me and
47:17um but eventually I got there and um the
47:21Russians had sort of made a little
47:22headquarters there and they asked
47:25permission if I could look every where
47:28and um so I did and there was well about
47:31500 men left all the others had been
47:35taken out of the camp this this with the
47:38Nazis retreated and um so I looked
47:42around and I met two people who had
47:45known from Amsterdam and I went to one
47:49and I they looked familiar but not I was
47:53really not quite sure because he was
47:55very very sin and quite Ashen and um and
47:59I looked at him and I said are you not
48:01AO Frank and his father he said yes yes
48:05and you are EV G and his friend and yes
48:09so we had recognized we didn't know
48:12about the Frank family that been in
48:14hiding that said been betrayed that sent
48:17to our but the first question of course
48:20he asked me have you seen my daughters
48:22or my wife and I hadn't seen them
48:25because I was with was B I was huge but
48:29um he had seen my father and brother and
48:32he said that have just gone with
48:35thees um so at that time I realized they
48:40probably we'll be alive and the war
48:42would soon be finished and um we'll be
48:45reunited again but the war was not soon
48:49finished it was January it didn't finish
48:51till May and in this period still many
48:56many many many many people perished
48:59especially on those death marches those
49:01people were taken out of the camp
49:04marched into Austria and Germany many
49:07millions of millions actually still
49:11there you uh arrived back in Holland in
49:15June of
49:161945 before we get there could you
49:19describe briefly what it was like being
49:21with the Russians and moving East to
49:23adessa and what were your feeling about
49:26the Russians once they fre you yeah well
49:29this is a a favorite topic of mine
49:33because the Russian have a very bad
49:36reputation unfortunately but the people
49:39really were wonderful um the soldiers
49:42really looked after us that um because
49:45the war was not not finished and we
49:48couldn't go back to the West yet so they
49:51took us into safety and we traveled
49:54Eastward and we traveled for 4 months
49:57with them and we saw we went to Russia
50:00and Romania and Poland and we saw
50:03unbelievable Devastation the Germans had
50:06burned down every town every village
50:09every field there was actually growing
50:12and the Russians were pursuing the
50:14Nazis and um but nevertheless it took
50:18time to keep us safe so we Trav
50:22Eastward again in the same kind of
50:24trains that they were kept open there
50:27was a stove in the middle every day they
50:29gave us food and um sometimes we stopped
50:33that we went could go into a little town
50:36to try to um we we try to buy things and
50:40exchange things and swap things and back
50:44things it was really quite an amazing
50:46group of people and um sometimes the
50:50locals came out to find out if he had
50:52seen b their family so were quite a lot
50:55of Jewish soldiers were fighting in the
50:58Russian army and they too showed us
51:01pictures of their family if you had
51:03perap seen them and you know it was
51:05actually still a very very sad situation
51:09to travel along but eventually we were
51:12put up in Odessa and there we waited for
51:15the end of the war and when that came
51:18then it was of course we really realized
51:21we had survived and there was a Russian
51:24B to that big house where we was staying
51:27uh ballet Opera Company from the town
51:31and we sat on the floor and listened to
51:33this beautiful music and dancing and you
51:36know we started to feel slowly a bit
51:39like human beings
51:41again when you arrived back in Holland
51:44in June 13th you still were hoping that
51:49papy and Hines were still alive could
51:51you describe what happened then and when
51:53you found out that they did not surv
51:57well um we put up in the paper we went
52:01every day to the trade station to see
52:03who had come back from Germany or from
52:05Poland and eventually um we got a letter
52:09from the headed cross quite cool you
52:12know not this feeling telling my mother
52:15that um your husband and your son Mr her
52:19name um died in mous this terrible um
52:23Austrian Des Camp several days
52:27before the American Army came to
52:29liberate that
52:31camp um that was of course for us the
52:33last St um because like I told you
52:37before I had survived because I hoped we
52:40would that would go back eventually
52:42again to how it used to be but when I
52:45realized it will never ever happen again
52:48I became very very depressed more
52:51depressed than I was in the camp now and
52:54AO Frank came as well to tell a terrible
52:57tragedy that his wife and both his
53:00daughters had died so how Frank was
53:04without family you and your mother
53:08survived your mother and Otto Frank
53:12initially became good friends and then
53:15became husband and
53:16wife any Reflections on that uh and and
53:22when did you first become aware of an
53:24Frank's diary well um auth came um with
53:30diary after been given me by me G and um
53:35he was so moved that he had that and he
53:38said can I leave you something out of it
53:41and he opened it really very very
53:44carefully and he started to read a
53:47couple of sentences but he always burst
53:49into tears and it took him three weeks
53:52to read it and it was so emotional to
53:56him and he always used to say I feel as
53:59if my little girl is still with me but
54:01he said as well um he knews he was
54:04writing a diary but of course he had
54:07never read it but he said I didn't
54:09really know my own child he was deeply
54:12deeply astonished and moved and as supp
54:16course glad as well about the wisdom he
54:20showed already in her early age about
54:23different aspects about women rights
54:26about equality about human nature about
54:31religion she had an opinion already
54:34about all kind of things and when the
54:36book came out in Dutch in
54:381947 of course he gave us that copy and
54:42I read it but I must admit I was so
54:45occupied with my own suffering still
54:48that um I said so what I went through
54:50the same thing and um I wasn't impressed
54:54at that time but my of course realized
54:58more the value of the book and she
55:01encouraged also to publish it of course
55:03as well and but it wasn't a success at
55:07that time in Holland because people
55:09really wanted to move on and um only
55:13when it was published in America in
55:171958 no 52 did it become a a a big
55:24success now so you live through his
55:28depression uh having survived but having
55:32lost what was most valuable to you your
55:35family you still have your mother and
55:37now
55:38Otto how did you first meet s schlo your
55:42your a husband and give us a sense of
55:45how you came out of that deep Abyss yeah
55:48well um when I finished school I didn't
55:51know what to do with my life and I
55:53didn't any particularly care I was still
55:56in a really bad depression and OT Frank
55:59had come very often to our house and
56:02talked to me and he said um you know if
56:05you hate people the people you hate they
56:08don't suffer but you become a very
56:11miserable sad person and that was true
56:14and he who had lost everything didn't
56:17hate anybody and that really was for me
56:20actually quite a miracle how can a man
56:23who lost his children and his wife um
56:26not hate everybody but he said I don't
56:30and um so he was a great help to me and
56:34um when I didn't know what to do what
56:36profession to go in he and my mother
56:38decided I should become a photographer
56:41and I did really care and also knew
56:44somebody in London who had a
56:46photographic studio and um he got me a
56:49place there so I went for London for a
56:52year to become an apprentice and I lived
56:55in a little boarding house where young
56:58men from Israel had come to study
57:01economics and we didn't really know each
57:03other you know we went for walks both
57:06both of us hadn't give any money and I
57:08told him I was Dutch which I wasn't
57:11because I was stat less still because we
57:14lost our nationalities and he told me he
57:17was an Israeli which he wasn't he was a
57:19German Refugee but um nevertheless we
57:24you know we went um became very friendly
57:27and after 6 months he said to me if I
57:30fallen in love with you will you marry
57:32me and we can start a new life and go to
57:35Israel when I finish my studies and I
57:37said him no thank
57:41you and U he was taken a back he said
57:45why not so he said well I have a widowed
57:48Mother at home and when my years is
57:51finished I will go back to her we were
57:54very very very close as you can IM
57:56imagine and then Oto Fran who kept an
57:59eye on me came over to London and I told
58:03him what had happened and he was a
58:05little bit shy and then he said to me
58:07you know your mother and me have fallen
58:09in love as well and once you get settled
58:12we like to get married so went back to
58:15this young man and I said well you can
58:17marry me
58:22now he was of course very pleased
58:27and um so we went the next year to
58:30Amsterdam because we didn't know anybody
58:31in London and got married and we were
58:34married for 62
58:43years unfortunately I lost him um a year
58:47and a half ago I had Alzheimer and he
58:51was really very very poor and um I talk
58:55in school love them very often when I
58:57tell the children um I was married 62
59:01years is my husband they always ask me
59:04there how many
59:07husbands just one and I just can't
59:10believe that um and um we got three
59:15daughters and later on five
59:18grandchildren they all live in London
59:21and um said is of course when when it
59:25was very very important to be because I
59:27always wanted to have a a big family but
59:30three is not so big especially when they
59:32look at
59:35the but um I had suffered mentally and
59:40physically and it was just I had really
59:43problem um I had all kind of uh
59:47illnesses and I couldn't really get more
59:50children but I'm very happy with my
59:52daughters anyway so your life changed
59:56changed seems to me dramatically in
1:00:001985 uh you were with two friends Anita
1:00:03and Barry good friends and something
1:00:06happened in that conversation that made
1:00:09you realize that while you had had this
1:00:11experience but had not been public about
1:00:14it what was it that made you want to
1:00:17write a book and change your life to
1:00:19become the person that you are now a
1:00:22spokesperson for maybe one of the most
1:00:24important stories anybody could ever
1:00:27tell well um you know when I came back
1:00:30from aitz that everybody said never
1:00:34again our have learned our lesson and
1:00:38people really tried to you know for a
1:00:40few years there was really um more
1:00:43peaceful people helped each other and um
1:00:46it looked as if the society was going to
1:00:49change for the better um but we see it
1:00:53hasn't there was the first Cambodia
1:00:57disaster and then the Korean War and the
1:01:00Vietnamese War and um um in Europe and
1:01:04in Cambodia and everywhere and um now
1:01:08again in the Middle East terrible
1:01:10terrible things are happening six and no
1:01:1565 million refugees are looking for a
1:01:19home and um again the world doesn't want
1:01:23them so but this of course I didn't know
1:01:26the time but I realized um I think when
1:01:29I had a shock when the Vietnamese people
1:01:31tried to escape on little boats on the
1:01:34ocean and big ships passed and we not
1:01:37allowed to pick them up and the people
1:01:39drown and I realized really we haven't
1:01:42learn anything so I started to be more
1:01:45involved in what was going on around me
1:01:48but was much sh to speak about it and
1:01:51then in
1:01:521986 an on Frank exhibition because the
1:01:56house in Amsterdam became a museum and
1:01:59the historians there decided um not
1:02:02everybody can come to Amsterdam to learn
1:02:05the history about an and so they made a
1:02:08traveling
1:02:09exhibition and that came for the first
1:02:11time to
1:02:12Lon and of course my mother and me were
1:02:15invited Otto had died already he was 17
1:02:18years older than my mother and um so we
1:02:22sat on a platform and um everybody speak
1:02:27well I went just as a guest and then the
1:02:29organizer said um um and now evil want
1:02:34to say something to you when i' never
1:02:37spoke and I was very shy and never
1:02:39wanted to open my mouth in front of two
1:02:41or three people and there stood not
1:02:44quite as big a crowd as in but still 200
1:02:47people and I just wanted to hide under
1:02:51the table and but eventually I started
1:02:55to speak and I don't know what I said
1:02:58but whatever it changed my life because
1:03:01I told them a little bit about what has
1:03:04happened and then the exhibition
1:03:06traveled all over England so always
1:03:08asked me to um open it uh my husband
1:03:12wrote a speech for me because I couldn't
1:03:14speak freely I always had to take a
1:03:18tranquilizer I didn't do it
1:03:22today and um and this is and then people
1:03:26said to me you know you have such an
1:03:29interesting story as well you should
1:03:31write it and this is how I came to read
1:03:34my first book e
1:03:36story well your energy is unbelievable
1:03:39just listening to the trip that you
1:03:42involved in right now which sounds like
1:03:44it's a six weeks tour from west to east
1:03:48and from north to south and always do
1:03:50big Crow I think this is the biggest
1:03:52Crow but still
1:03:56[Applause]
1:04:02800,000 people usually come to he a
1:04:06story
1:04:08well it's it's starting to come to the
1:04:11end I can't I can't bear to give this up
1:04:13and you said we could probably talk for
1:04:15two three hours but I
1:04:18don't would be shown out here I think so
1:04:23um from what I understand uh people in
1:04:26the audience have gotten index cards and
1:04:28if you have uh questions for either
1:04:30cross why don't you give it to the
1:04:32people walking in the A and we'll try to
1:04:34choose just a few but until we do that
1:04:38let me ask you the first question if I
1:04:42were sitting in the
1:04:44audience almost the obvious question so
1:04:47what is your message you know we talked
1:04:49about uh people trying to live through
1:04:53you the experience but is you want this
1:04:56audience to have learned from spending
1:04:58this evening
1:05:00with well um you know we we are very
1:05:03very lucky people they live with a
1:05:05beautiful C in Western Europe we live on
1:05:09a wonderful planet and nevertheless we
1:05:12are not happy we have great prejudice
1:05:16against people who are different from us
1:05:19um um the black people the uh brown
1:05:23people the Christian are Jews are
1:05:26Muslims all those people are wonderful
1:05:29people and um but
1:05:33we certain people who are not the same
1:05:35as we are and this can cause really
1:05:39really a lot of harm and this well it
1:05:41causes Wars and discrimination and this
1:05:45is one of the things we have to really
1:05:48um go out of it to discriminate against
1:05:51people who are different from us my
1:05:53husband always used to say just one a
1:05:57and that is say human
1:06:05[Applause]
1:06:06a I think I know the answer to this
1:06:10question but if you had to Define
1:06:12yourself as being optimistic or
1:06:15pessimistic how would you describe
1:06:17yourself at this moment um well I I I
1:06:21worry I must say I do worry but
1:06:23nevertheless I'm optimistic
1:06:26um I've got myself five grandchildren
1:06:29and they all realize that the world has
1:06:32to be changed they all do charitable
1:06:35work the um the boys have all been to
1:06:38Africa to help out there and um and I've
1:06:41hear many many people do this around the
1:06:44whole world and I think the young people
1:06:47um are really willing to make sacrifices
1:06:51to make to create a safer and better
1:06:54world
1:06:56okay so these are the questions from the
1:06:58audience we'll just be able to do as
1:07:01many as we can do you believe in God if
1:07:05so how do you keep up Faith after all
1:07:08youve gone through after how do you keep
1:07:11up your faith if you believe in God how
1:07:13do you keep up your faith after what you
1:07:15have gone through um well that is um
1:07:18it's a question I get is usually asked
1:07:22and um I must admit when I came out of
1:07:25the camp I was an atheist and as well I
1:07:29didn't believe in
1:07:31humanity um and this is why I had a
1:07:34really really very hard time because I
1:07:37was full of hatred and if you don't
1:07:39believe in anything it's it's you really
1:07:42a really very sad person and um but I
1:07:46wasn't happy who I was and I wasn't
1:07:49happy how I couldn't relate to people or
1:07:52to my religion I was always a very very
1:07:56proud you I would never give up my
1:07:58Judaism but I started to doubt existence
1:08:01of godone because in the C the only
1:08:04thing that we could do and there were
1:08:07actually many of course religious people
1:08:09who prayed all the time to and so did we
1:08:14we pray to God to stop those
1:08:17atrocities and God didn't and so when I
1:08:21came out and especially when I realized
1:08:23how many millions of inoc and children
1:08:26had died and people from many people
1:08:29from my own family I just couldn't
1:08:32couldn't comprehend that that if there
1:08:35is a God that he could tolerate that and
1:08:39um but you know without belief life is
1:08:43is really very very hard and um the
1:08:46birth of my first daughter made this big
1:08:49change in my because I couldn't really
1:08:52conceive and um I was desperate
1:08:56and um had medical treatment and
1:08:58eventually give birth to a beautiful
1:09:00child and that really changed my my
1:09:03whole belief again and that's where I
1:09:06met some wonderful people and I realized
1:09:10you know um life has a lot to offer and
1:09:14um of course you know I wouldn't say now
1:09:17I believe
1:09:18100% because but I think that is a
1:09:21mystery of life we will never you know
1:09:24the same we will not know what will
1:09:26happen after death and um I've accepted
1:09:29that um one day I'm full of belief I go
1:09:33to synagogue I love being in the
1:09:35Tranquility of a service and praying and
1:09:39then I get home and I look at television
1:09:42and see atrocities happening and I start
1:09:45again that to out so but you know I'm
1:09:48happy with how I believe now
1:09:52um this is what we we don't know I think
1:09:56nobody knows you can believe or you
1:09:58cannot believe but um the mystery of Our
1:10:02Lives is always there with
1:10:05us have you forgiven the Nazis if so how
1:10:09did you do it I have forgiven the German
1:10:13people as a whole but not the individual
1:10:17Nazis who um the leaders who PL these
1:10:22terrible arities who um s together
1:10:26there's a one conference a place near
1:10:28Berlin they came together had a big meal
1:10:31and got all drunk and decided How to get
1:10:34rid of all the Jews in a cheap and Quick
1:10:37Way um through guessing those people
1:10:40those were really really evil people and
1:10:44those of course have no forgiveness but
1:10:47then German people by itself I think um
1:10:51you know every country has made mistakes
1:10:54every country has done terrible things
1:10:56to other people but um we have to accept
1:11:00it and as in the past and um I have
1:11:03great respect for the Germans now in
1:11:06Angela Markel who is the only one who
1:11:09took in a million
1:11:15[Applause]
1:11:18refugees of a guil feeling because they
1:11:21want to make good of the Crim the is
1:11:25that people used to
1:11:29commit what advice would you give you're
1:11:31here at Duke and I'm sure we have a lot
1:11:33of students here which I hope we do uh
1:11:36what advice would you give the younger
1:11:38Generations in order to combat
1:11:41anti-Semitism intolerance and social
1:11:45injustice um well you know just stop
1:11:48this yourself start in your own Circle
1:11:51start with your friends mix with all
1:11:53those people and um I've been going in
1:11:56England to Muslim services and you know
1:12:00when you go there you realize it's
1:12:02actually very very similar to a Jewish
1:12:05service um the Jewish service in Hebrew
1:12:08which I can't understand the Arab
1:12:11service which I can't understand but you
1:12:16know the men playay the women are just
1:12:18there as well to support them and um
1:12:22it's it's very similar and so go to mix
1:12:25with Muslim mix with Christian eat their
1:12:29food celebrate their holidays with them
1:12:32and and you know we can be best of
1:12:35friends with a different opinion about
1:12:38religion and about all kind of things in
1:12:40our life and starts with your small
1:12:43circle and then large Circle feel
1:12:45eventually everybody will do that
1:12:56what do you think about the recent laws
1:12:58in Poland uh that uh well you could say
1:13:02deny their role in the
1:13:05Holocaust um well there have been
1:13:08Holocaust
1:13:09denias since since you know what has
1:13:12really happened and um I I don't take
1:13:16that too seriously um you know there was
1:13:20you've seen probably this film that Thea
1:13:22we had in England this um they with um
1:13:26forgot about his name um who denied the
1:13:29Holocaust and actually in Austria and
1:13:31Germany it is an offense he um David IR
1:13:35he spent in Austria he was in prison
1:13:38because he di the Holocaust and um the
1:13:41Polish people um look actually after the
1:13:44camps there are some individuals who
1:13:48obviously become anti-semitic again and
1:13:51you know
1:13:52anti-Semitism has always been since his
1:13:55of man and it will always be but as long
1:13:58as they're not um attacking people but
1:14:02just talking badly about it that it's
1:14:04just in the language it's an expression
1:14:06we can put up with that we just have to
1:14:09accept it we can of course try to talk
1:14:11to those people but you know there
1:14:14always people who will make problems for
1:14:17other people and um we should not get
1:14:20too nervous or too upset about all
1:14:24this when you were uh in the camp were
1:14:27there any acts of kindness that were
1:14:29particularly meaningful to you that gave
1:14:31you more faith and strength
1:14:34unfortunately not but I mentioned before
1:14:36you know people really T it was so so
1:14:40difficult to stay alive that people
1:14:43really concentrate on just this there
1:14:46was very very little um help to others
1:14:50they didn't harm others but they didn't
1:14:52help others either and that was a think
1:14:55part of the plan of putting people in
1:14:58caps like that to dehumanize them so
1:15:01that they wouldn't form a family or a
1:15:04group of
1:15:06people I'm kind of paraphrasing this but
1:15:09an individual from a Jewish Family whose
1:15:12father uses the Holocaust to indicate
1:15:15that there must not be a God because God
1:15:17would not allow this to happen what do
1:15:20you think about that argument that since
1:15:23the Holocaust did happen must not be a
1:15:26god um well I have arguments very often
1:15:31with even and um you know I question you
1:15:36know how could it have happened and they
1:15:38say um you can't you're not you can't
1:15:41question God ways why and um my idea we
1:15:46I've been thinking very much about it I
1:15:49saw you know in Germany and Austria that
1:15:51told the people have been assimilating
1:15:54we don't don't keep anymore to a lot of
1:15:56the laws which we should keep so I
1:15:59thought perhaps that is a punishment of
1:16:02God but said no no no no you mustn't say
1:16:05ever say anything like that and um but
1:16:09you know I I'm looking as well for an
1:16:11answer and um
1:16:14and I don't think we'll ever get an
1:16:17answer and so I'm afraid I can't uh help
1:16:20you with this but um you have to make
1:16:24your own mind what you believe and um if
1:16:27you can believe it is you you have a
1:16:30much much more happy and peaceful life
1:16:34but it depends on your own
1:16:41belief as you've already indicated U
1:16:45there are have been many
1:16:47atrocities the Holocaust is not unique
1:16:51in that respect but in in your mind in
1:16:55your meaning what is the significance of
1:16:57the Holocaust that separates it from
1:17:00other atrocities um well I think because
1:17:04it was pled by very very intelligent
1:17:07cultured people um in um wara for
1:17:11instance those were tribal um disputes
1:17:15and people started to kill each other
1:17:17but it was not planned it wasn't um you
1:17:20know the Holocaust was how how it was
1:17:23done but is was unique and I hope never
1:17:26anything like that will happen
1:17:29again planning in advance how to get it
1:17:33of a whole group of
1:17:35people that is the uniqueness of the
1:17:38Holocaust I think when you were in the
1:17:40camp as a child did you make any friends
1:17:44that you continue to know or knew for a
1:17:46long time after you survived well there
1:17:49was one girl similar age of me who was
1:17:53with us of the transport and um I kept a
1:17:57friendship up with her for many many
1:17:59years but um and then there was another
1:18:03family uh two sisters who we were
1:18:06friendly with till they died so but only
1:18:09with
1:18:10individual not as many
1:18:14people sometimes when people survive a
1:18:17horrible experience where many other
1:18:18people don't they feel guilty about
1:18:21being a Survivor did you have to deal
1:18:24with that issue of Survivor guilt um no
1:18:28I must say um I'm actually very happy as
1:18:33you and but this is this
1:18:40is this this survival guil is happening
1:18:45more when parents survive their children
1:18:49um my mother of said why did I survive
1:18:53and not my son so this is understandable
1:18:56of course and that is not the natural
1:18:58way parents shouldn't survive their
1:19:01children you mentioned um your your
1:19:04brother your mother's son Hines and you
1:19:07spoke so glowingly of him and we talked
1:19:11about the the passage of Life Beyond
1:19:15one's own life could you just give us
1:19:17some Reflections about hins and his
1:19:20thoughts about survival and passing on
1:19:24whatever he had to others yeah um H my
1:19:28older brother was a um a wonderful
1:19:31artist a wonderful musician actually he
1:19:34could play already when he was four
1:19:36years old he could already play piano
1:19:40and um when he was when in Amsterdam the
1:19:43furnish apartment had a piano he
1:19:46composed and um he had a perfect ear he
1:19:49could play any instrument but of course
1:19:51in hiding he couldn't make any music to
1:19:54be completely silent and so he taught
1:19:57himself six languages and he started to
1:20:01paint and he created some amazing
1:20:04paintings and um after OT Frank got um
1:20:09The Diary um the the last conversation I
1:20:13had with hands was in the cattle truck
1:20:16when he told me that he had hit the
1:20:18painting before um they escaped from
1:20:21this house where the woman was
1:20:23blackmailing them um under the
1:20:26floorboards with a note on it that
1:20:28belongs to Hans and G and after the war
1:20:32I'm going to pick it up again and after
1:20:35a got day I said to my mother we have to
1:20:38go and get his paintings as well which
1:20:41we did and we found really amazing
1:20:44paintings and you know Anna says in her
1:20:47diary one of the things when she dies
1:20:50she would like to become immortal
1:20:53meaning that she would like to live on
1:20:57well she does wherever in the world I go
1:21:00and I mention her name people know who
1:21:02she is so she has achieved that and very
1:21:05often my mother and me said what about
1:21:08hands he was as well such a wonderful
1:21:11young man and nobody knows about him and
1:21:15when he was 12 years old being so
1:21:17artistic and so sensitive um he asked my
1:21:22father one day he said puppy what will
1:21:24happen happen when I die and my father
1:21:27said well of course your body will
1:21:29integrate but um you will live on in
1:21:33your
1:21:34children and then this 12year old boy
1:21:37said but what if I I before have any
1:21:40children and my father saw the moment
1:21:43and he said well um we are all a link in
1:21:47a big chain which goes from generation
1:21:50to generation nothing get ever lost even
1:21:53if you have achieved only a little bit
1:21:56in your life in your short life somebody
1:21:59will remember and no you won't be
1:22:02forgotten so um I wrote another book
1:22:06called The Promise the promise from my
1:22:08father to hand that he w't be
1:22:10forgotten and um I tell about his life
1:22:14and the paintings I donated a few years
1:22:17ago to the resistance Museum in
1:22:20Amsterdam and they made a big exhibition
1:22:24and many many many people see what he
1:22:26has achieved and um so if he's not
1:22:30forgotten and that is really a thing
1:22:32what we all want to achieve that we
1:22:35haven't been in this world for nothing
1:22:38that we have leave something
1:22:48[Applause]
1:22:50behind you have blessed us with your
1:22:52story with your presence here tonight
1:22:55your your beauty shines through you and
1:22:58fills this entire room uh we are so
1:23:01grateful for you to be here we're so
1:23:04grateful for your message and we hope it
1:23:06goes on for many many many years but
1:23:08regardless you will live forever through
1:23:12US telling this story to our children to
1:23:15our children's children thank you for
1:23:17being with us but before we end let me
1:23:20introduce Professor Mark rler American
1:23:24biblical scholar and the Bernice and uh
1:23:26Morton learner professor in judaic
1:23:28studies at du University he's a prolific
1:23:31author and co-founder of the website the
1:23:33torah.com which integrates critical and
1:23:36traditional methods of studying the
1:23:38Bible in 2004 he won the National Jewish
1:23:42book award for the Jewish Study Bible
1:23:46Professor br
1:23:50[Applause]
1:23:56as a member of the Duke Center for
1:23:58Jewish studies one of the sponsors of
1:24:00this evening I'd like to thank you from
1:24:02the bottom of my heart for sharing this
1:24:05story with us there are many ways to
1:24:08remember I have seen the eyeglasses and
1:24:11the shoes of those who died Nash us as
1:24:15recently as 1981 when I was just a
1:24:18little older than some of the students
1:24:20here I held in my own hands bone
1:24:23fragments
1:24:24from Jews who were killed by the aat
1:24:27scin in the former Soviet Union such
1:24:31tactile experiences offer one way to
1:24:34remember one way to try to understand
1:24:38personal testimony is another way and I
1:24:41thank you so much for telling us your
1:24:44story especially in this era of
1:24:47alternative facts please join me in
1:24:50thanking Mrs schlass for sharing with us
1:24:53her deep hatred for all Prejudice her
1:24:56personal stories and
1:25:00especially and especially for reminding
1:25:02us that the unb is
1:25:06often that we each our stories and our
1:25:16[Applause]
1:25:22[Applause]
1:25:25[Music]
1:25:28[Applause]
1:25:43[Music]

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