The Emotional Lives of Men | Tom Golden | Outtakes from "The Red Pill" — Transcript

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1. 0:02I want to ask you where where does your
2. 0:17research with how men grieve differently
3. 0:20and utilize therapy differently how does
4. 0:23that fit within the men's rights
5. 0:24movement
6. 0:25well actually it was there what got me
7. 0:27started with things you know when I
8. 0:29worked with men and the therapists to
9. 0:31begin with it said men don't grieve and
10. 0:33and the men who would tell me no one
11. 0:35wants to hear what I'm talking about I
12. 0:37started realizing oh oh
13. 0:40men's pain is taboo you know that people
14. 0:44don't want to touch it they don't want
15. 0:46to smell it they don't want to hear it
16. 0:47they don't want to do anything about it
17. 0:48they just don't want to end their in
18. 0:51encouraged not to you know men are
19. 0:54supposed to be tough and strong I can't
20. 0:56tell you the number of men I worked with
21. 0:58whose children died and they'd come back
22. 1:01and tell me you know everybody comes
23. 1:03home and they they come up to my wife
24. 1:06and they say how you doing can I do
25. 1:08anything for you what are you feeling
26. 1:10and they come up to me and they say
27. 1:12how's your wife holding up it's as if
28. 1:17their pain doesn't exist you know it's
29. 1:19just not there and so and the men are
30. 1:22very conscious of this the men are
31. 1:24conscious that our society doesn't want
32. 1:27to hear their pain and no one wants to
33. 1:30hear it so the men aren't dumb enough to
34. 1:32go out and emote publicly you know
35. 1:34because they're basically their pain is
36. 1:36taboo very different from a woman's pain
37. 1:39you know a woman's pain is a call to
38. 1:40action when you let's do a story um
39. 1:44welcome to your favorite restaurant and
40. 1:47you're being seated and you look over
41. 1:49the corner table and you see a woman at
42. 1:52the table crying she's got her head oh
43. 1:54she's just tears coming down her face
44. 1:57what's the first thing comes into your
45. 1:59mind
46. 2:00oh maybe she was broken up with she's
47. 2:03she's sad she's broken up and poor thing
48. 2:08right I give this same thing to the
49. 2:10workshops I gave her therapists and they
50. 2:12all say the same thing poor dear she's
51. 2:15upset she needs support right I said
52. 2:18okay good
53. 2:18you erased that image go back again now
54. 2:22you come in the same restaurant
55. 2:25you're being seated but in the corner
56. 2:27table as a man he's crying what's the
57. 2:30first thing comes to your mind it could
58. 2:33be different for many people but I I
59. 2:35think most people would maybe say well
60. 2:38Jesus is he maybe a gay okay yeah the
61. 2:41therapists almost always would say
62. 2:43something wrong with him avoid him steer
63. 2:46clear he's probably trunk so this kind
64. 2:50of tells us what's in these were
65. 2:52therapists I mean these are people who
66. 2:53you know who know interactions they they
67. 2:57know the the ins and outs of the
68. 2:59psychological connection and they're
69. 3:01saying there's something wrong with this
70. 3:02guy and frankly the first time I did
71. 3:05this for myself I felt the same thing I
72. 3:07felt like oh I'm gonna deal with that
73. 3:10and I realized then uh-oh even I'm
74. 3:14biased I've got a bias against men and
75. 3:17pain so if I've got it just think what
76. 3:19other people have here though and we all
77. 3:23have it it's like it's a taboo that no
78. 3:25one wants to touch and it's all threaded
79. 3:28into the disposability piece because if
80. 3:32men are disposable then they shouldn't
81. 3:36have pain a plastic fork do you feel bad
82. 3:40about a plastic fork no you just toss it
83. 3:42out
84. 3:43the people have pet snakes you ever know
85. 3:47anybody who has a pet snake these big
86. 3:49boa constrictors what do they feed them
87. 3:52the little teeny mice little pinkies and
88. 3:55did people get attached to their snakes
89. 3:57oh yes oh I love my snake you know boy
90. 4:02all my snake is my my life but did they
91. 4:05get attached to the little mice they
92. 4:07feed him
93. 4:07no they're disposable what would happen
94. 4:10if the little mouse said wait a minute
95. 4:13I don't want to be fed to the snake not
96. 4:15today not today what would people say to
97. 4:18that in the same you whiner get back in
98. 4:24line
99. 4:24you're nothing but food and in some ways
100. 4:27that's what it's like for men today men
101. 4:30are the white mice anyway your question
102. 4:34was how did it get me into the MRA stuff
103. 4:36and the answer is that when I started
104. 4:39seeing how taboo men's pain was and that
105. 4:43men needed compassion but weren't
106. 4:46getting it it took me into other areas
107. 4:48where I started to see the same thing
108. 4:50and this is a thread that goes through
109. 4:52many of the issues that you'll see in
110. 4:53mints issues today and that is that men
111. 4:57are lacking in compassion just like they
112. 4:59were with the grief stuff and they're
113. 5:01lacking in choice those two things
114. 5:03choice and compassion oh gosh you know
115. 5:10when you think about women her body her
116. 5:14choice right but think about men his
117. 5:18body his choice not so much I've worked
118. 5:22with men before in therapy who've come
119. 5:25in because their wife wants to abort the
120. 5:27child and they don't what do you tell
121. 5:31him what do you say to him
122. 5:35it's heartbreaking he's got no say in
123. 5:38the entire matter now it's a tough one
124. 5:41and it's a very difficult a touchy issue
125. 5:43but he should have some say in there
126. 5:45someplace there should be some way that
127. 5:48things can get worked out who knows what
128. 5:49but and don't have choice the choice
129. 5:53they have is to work full-time work
130. 5:56full-time or work full-time you know so
131. 6:01with men engraving a minute therapy do
132. 6:05you think it's an issues of the
133. 6:08expectation of masculinity put on men is
134. 6:11why they feel like they they can't share
135. 6:13their feelings openly or crying in a
136. 6:14restaurant and not be judged for that
137. 6:16like any issue that is certainly a part
138. 6:19of it it's part of the socialization but
139. 6:20there's a lot of other issues too in
140. 6:22fact I came up with four things that I
141. 6:24realized we're keeping people from
142. 6:26seeing men's pain men's pain is
143. 6:29invisible because these four things the
144. 6:30first we've talked about already the
145. 6:32taboo a man's pain is taboo and because
146. 6:34it's taboo people don't see it another
147. 6:36just can do you like this and they don't
148. 6:39even know it I mean most people don't
149. 6:40even have concept that they are not able
150. 6:44to see it so that's the first thing the
151. 6:47second thing is that men are saddled
152. 6:49with a very rigid sex role of provide
153. 6:51and protect you know men are expected to
154. 6:54provide and protect and most of them go
155. 6:57on with that you know that's okay but
156. 6:59they don't have much leeway from that
157. 7:01and when you don't have much leeway from
158. 7:04the provide and protect role what does
159. 7:06it keep you from doing you're encouraged
160. 7:08to be independent right and successful
161. 7:12but are you encouraged to be dependent
162. 7:15no dependency Foyle's the whole provide
163. 7:19and protect role right and what is grief
164. 7:23water emotions they are showing
165. 7:24dependency you know that's a dependent
166. 7:28mode so we're expecting men to come into
167. 7:30therapy and they've been trade now for
168. 7:34years to provide and protect to take
169. 7:36care of things and what happens we
170. 7:39expect them to say oh well now you're
171. 7:40supposed to be vulnerable to talk about
172. 7:41your feelings
173. 7:42[Laughter]
174. 7:45not so much not so much because he is
175. 7:48locked into this role and there's
176. 7:50there's so there's this taboos one thing
177. 7:53the provide protect role is another and
178. 7:56oh gosh oh the dominance hierarchy you
179. 8:01know we're finding now that men live in
180. 8:03a dominance hierarchy and you know of
181. 8:07the bighorn sheep you know what they do
182. 8:10they Ram each other's heads
183. 8:13they bud each other's heads in order to
184. 8:14see who's gonna be top of the hierarchy
185. 8:17correct and we now are thinking that men
186. 8:21have the same kind of hierarchical stuff
187. 8:24going on but instead of butting heads
188. 8:26men strive for status we strive for
189. 8:31status and this is a little bit
190. 8:34confusing because you know you think of
191. 8:36striving for status as being seeking
192. 8:38power and yes that's a part of it but
193. 8:42striving for status can also be the
194. 8:44opposite you know
195. 8:45strive for status for some men could be
196. 8:47if a man is a pacifist his driving for
197. 8:50power could in fact be I'll be the best
198. 8:52pacifist I can be or I'll put on the
199. 8:55best conference for pacifism that I
200. 8:57possibly can so within each niche men
201. 9:01will tend to strive for power and you
202. 9:04can see that everyplace you know I can
203. 9:06see every place you look you know we're
204. 9:08number one and men's sense of meaning to
205. 9:11be on top and not wanting to be below
206. 9:15because in the hierarchy you want to put
207. 9:17yourself up as close to the top as you
208. 9:19can and you do not want to be seen near
209. 9:23the bottom well guess what puts you near
210. 9:24the bottom feelings and and dependency I
211. 9:31mean that will drop you like a rock you
212. 9:33know so men don't want to have that
213. 9:36stuff come up to the surface because it
214. 9:39makes them appear dependent and appears
215. 9:42though they're not good enough they're
216. 9:43not at the top of their game and men
217. 9:45always want to stay at the top and you
218. 9:48know the hierarchy were finding for men
219. 9:49is in all so many different spheres
220. 9:52apparently women also have one hierarchy
221. 9:55do you know what it is look exactly
222. 9:58exactly
223. 9:59women will compete and try and stay in a
224. 10:03hierarchy based on appearance and cost
225. 10:06look at the the what he called the
226. 10:08makeup industry you know the the you
227. 10:12know all the things to keep appearance
228. 10:14up now that's how women struggle with
229. 10:17each other and you know women some women
230. 10:19won't go out of the house without having
231. 10:21their makeup on right why because they
232. 10:24don't want to appear less than
233. 10:26attractive correct so if you told that
234. 10:30woman that she would understand that
235. 10:31completely but would she understand the
236. 10:34man who didn't want to seem dependent
237. 10:36when he's in therapy because he's doing
238. 10:38the same thing do you see how it works
239. 10:41he is not wanting to appear dependent is
240. 10:44like not wanting to go out without his
241. 10:46makeup it's just we can't understand it
242. 10:49when men do it but we seem to understand
243. 10:51it when women do
244. 10:52[Music]
245. 10:55you
246. 10:58[Music]