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The Deadliest Blockers of Destiny (curses, transitions, & thresholds) w/Craig Cooney — Transcript

by The Deep End w/Taylor Welch · 22,791 words · 3,337 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00I've heard people say [music] reluctant
0:01obedience is disobedience. That's
0:02rubbish. Partial obedience is
0:04disobedience. Saul was partially [music]
0:06obedient and he lost the anointing of
0:07God. People say God doesn't close one
0:09door without opening another one, but
0:11they don't talk about the hallway in
0:12between. Jesus said, "Bless and do not
0:13curse." Why would he say that unless
0:15curses were real? She had been bleeding
0:16for a year. For a year, she wasn't able
0:18to have intimacy with her husband. And I
0:20said, "I believe your pastor has put a
0:22curse on you." At 12:00 noon, we lay
0:24hands on her and said, "In the name of
0:25Jesus, as her pastors, we have authority
0:27to cancel the previous authority. In the
0:29name of Jesus, we command healing." An
0:31hour later, she phoned Becky [music]
0:32said, "The bleeding has stopped and it
0:33has never come back." You are your
0:35calling. When I walk into a room, I
0:38expect things to shift, not because I'm
0:39a pastor or a prophetic voice, because I
0:41am in the room. Jesus doesn't want you
0:43to live a broken life. [music] His body
0:45was broken so that your brokenness could
0:47be healed. We left completely broken,
0:49dishonored, and we went into this
0:51wilderness [music] and we grieved and we
0:53were angry and we were bitter and I
0:55didn't realize how much of my identity
0:56was caught up in that role. If God has
0:58told you to do something and [music]
0:59you're disobedient, there will come a
1:01point where God will say, "I love you
1:02too much to let you stay in
1:03disobedience." And I have so much more
1:05for you and so I can't let you stay
1:07there.
1:09>> Everyone wants to get to the high
1:10places. [music]
1:10But if you want to go high, you first
1:12have to go deep.
1:13>> What's up? Welcome back to the deep end.
1:14[music] We have a guest with us today.
1:16I'm going to tell you about who he is in
1:17a second, but before I do that before
1:19your official bio that we'll put out, I
1:22want to show you this book. This is
1:23called The Threshold. This is by Craig
1:26Cooney. And there was a season in my
1:29life, you don't know this, when this
1:32book was sitting in our sun room. And I
1:34would go in every other day or so and I
1:36would just open this up randomly.
1:39I was like, you know, some people just
1:41open up the Bible randomly. They're
1:42like, "God, speak to me through the
1:44chapter and verse." And I would just
1:45randomly open it up. And I know you're
1:47supposed to go in order of the days, but
1:50I just would randomly pick it up. And
1:52this book would remind me that I was
1:54going to be okay. And it would cause me
1:57to repent. But more than anything, the
2:00sense that I got when I was reading this
2:02book was that God was trustworthy and I
2:04didn't have to work it all out myself.
2:07And uh just I don't know how long it
2:08took you to write this book, but I'm
2:10really happy that you wrote it.
2:11>> Thank you, Taylor. It's good to be with
2:13you. Do you know what that book I wrote
2:16100 chapters in a 100 days
2:19and it was it almost killed me and so
2:22only 50 of them are there
2:25and I've written six books and two of
2:27them are anointed. [laughter]
2:29The other four are decent.
2:32>> That's amazing. [laughter] I love that
2:34you're honest.
2:34>> Yeah. I mean the first one, the tension
2:36of transition was birthed out of the
2:38mess we went through in our own
2:39transition which we'll get to talk
2:40about. And it was really a bunch of
2:42sermons that I'd edited into a book that
2:44I thought my parents and three other
2:46people might read and tens of thousands
2:48of people have now read. It was written
2:49in 2018.
2:51And then I wrote four in between. And
2:52then I wrote the threshold 2 years ago,
2:55100 days. And I thought each chapter
2:57would be like a page and it ended up
2:59being like 2,500. I mean the the
3:03manuscript was over 200,000 words.
3:05>> Wow.
3:06>> So that's only half of it and there's
3:07540 pages there. So, I have another 50
3:10chapters that I have cut down to 30. I'm
3:12writing 10 20 new ones. And there's
3:14another book coming out soon.
3:15>> What's that one going to be called?
3:17>> The shift.
3:18>> Nice.
3:19>> Yeah. And it's going to be similar but
3:21different in some ways. There's just
3:22there's other things that are on my
3:24heart right now.
3:24>> Have you read this book?
3:25>> Mm-
3:27>> Oh, man.
3:27>> Awesome. You said you wrote in 100 days.
3:29Did you spend all all day writing?
3:31>> I I I get up early. I would get up at
3:335:00 a.m. and write until I finished the
3:35chapter. And I have this thing where
3:36people sign up to get the chapters each
3:39day and so by lunchtime if they don't
3:42have them they start emailing me saying
3:43I haven't got my chapter. [laughter] So
3:45literally so it keeps me disciplined. I
3:47do that with every book.
3:48>> Nice.
3:49>> And so people sign up and they they you
3:51know they pay a very tiny fee and but it
3:54literally because they're paying I feel
3:55a responsibility to make sure they get
3:57the chapter every day.
3:58>> Yeah. And so a h 100 I mean literally we
4:01would be on vacation in Portugal and my
4:04I would be up at 4:5 a.m. in the
4:06[clears throat] reception just knocking
4:07out a chapter. So 100 days to write 100
4:10to write what over a thousand pages it
4:14took.
4:14>> That's a lot you were [clears throat]
4:15booking.
4:16>> But that is that and the attentional
4:17transition are the two books that have
4:18really impact. But here's the thing. I I
4:21never thought I was a writer. And I
4:23still don't really think I'm a writer.
4:24Actually,
4:26in our significant transition 10 years
4:28ago, we ended up in a church where we
4:30may talk about. And the pastor said, "I
4:32want you to be a teaching pastor, but I
4:33also want you to write a daily
4:34devotional every day." I said, "I don't
4:36write." He said, "You do." [laughter] I
4:39said, "I I haven't I hated writing in
4:41high school. I haven't written since
4:42then." He said, "I want you to write a
4:44daily devotional from Monday to Friday."
4:46And that began and here I am seven books
4:48later. So sometimes there's something
4:49that we don't see in ourselves and other
4:51people. He was a king and we'll talk,
4:53you know, one of those people who I
4:54looked up to. And so once he called the
4:56treasure out of me, I began to do it.
4:58And I still don't enjoy it.
5:00>> Mhm.
5:01>> But there's a satisfaction in knowing
5:03that
5:04>> what you the words that you put on a
5:06page impact people's lives.
5:07>> Yeah.
5:08>> There's something profoundly satisfying
5:10about that.
5:10>> It's such a classic thing, too, when
5:12people are like, I'm not a writer. I'm
5:15not a speaker. It reminds me of Wendy
5:17Backland when she was like, "Yeah, the
5:18[clears throat] Lord basically was like,
5:20do you know what happens to you
5:21>> if you get to heaven and you haven't
5:23written a book?"
5:24>> And she's like, "No." And he's like, "It
5:26just means you you were an author who
5:28didn't do your job."
5:30>> I was like, "Oh no."
5:31>> Yeah.
5:31>> Oh no.
5:32>> Yeah. You were a five talented person
5:34living a two talent life.
5:35>> O jeez. Okay. Before you do that, let's
5:37get to your bio. [laughter] Um Craig
5:39Craig Cooney is a pastor, author, and a
5:41prophetic voice. The founder of the
5:43Daily Prophetic on Instagram, by the
5:45way. Daily Prophetic is a I follow you
5:47on Instagram.
5:48>> Um, people will send me stuff all of the
5:51time, but I'm I'm watching you.
5:52>> Okay.
5:53>> You have no idea how many times I'll
5:54read a post from you
5:56>> and I'm like, it confirms something that
5:59God told me, but I was like, that ain't
6:01God. God wouldn't tell me to do that.
6:02It's It's an amazing account to follow.
6:04Um, and the ministry is devoted to
6:07helping believers hear God's voice and
6:09discern his leading
6:10>> and navigate seasons of transition. You
6:13have uh written six books as you said
6:14across your writing and ministry. You
6:16often speak into themes of transition,
6:18shaking
6:19>> which everyone loves obviously.
6:22Surrender, discernment, waiting, closed
6:24doors, identity, and learning how to
6:25follow God.
6:26>> Yeah.
6:26>> Specifically when an old season has
6:28ended but the new has not fully opened.
6:30>> That in between the messy middle
6:31>> in between which we all
6:34>> love.
6:35>> Not the word I would use, but yes.
6:37>> Me neither. It was music. Before we get
6:38into the transition though, I'm curious
6:40because [clears throat] you're a you're
6:42a prophet. You're a prophetic voice.
6:45>> Prophetic voice. Yeah.
6:46>> We just call it prophet person. Um but
6:51at what point did that happen? What's
6:52your backstory? How did you end here?
6:54Can you take us back into
6:56>> the history of how you got here?
6:58>> So I am an ordained Episcopalian priest.
7:02>> Nice.
7:02>> Which people are shocked by. I've been
7:04ordained into the Anglican church 20
7:06years ago. So I was brought up in a
7:07non-Christian family. We went to church
7:09Christmas, Easter, that was it. 15, went
7:12to a Christian summer camp, got
7:13radically converted, went to college,
7:15went off the rails, but still knew there
7:17was this call in my life. After I was
7:19came to Christ at 15, over the next two
7:21years, everywhere I went, I began to get
7:24prophetic words from people. I would go
7:26into a meeting and I would get this
7:28feeling in my stomach, this like
7:29flipping feeling like my stomach and
7:31they would say, "Stand up." And they
7:33would begin to speak over me. God has
7:35called you to leadership. He's called
7:36you to preach his word. You're going to
7:37be a voice to the nations. The problem
7:39was that I really wrestled with
7:41insecurity and public speaking and all
7:43of that stuff. And so I just couldn't.
7:45But the prophetic co goes into your
7:47future and speaks into your present.
7:50>> And that's why a lot of the words you
7:51get will not make sense. The Lord said
7:53to Gideon, "The Lord is with you, mighty
7:55warrior." And Gideon's hiding in the
7:56wine press from the Midionites.
7:58>> It just didn't make sense. And we've all
8:00seen people who get prophetic words and
8:01we say, "Oh, the prophet has missed it
8:03there because I know that person." Mhm.
8:05>> But the prophet is looking at the
8:07treasure in the jar of clay and saying,
8:09"This is the potential that God has put
8:10within you. If you will partner with
8:12him, if you will obey, if you will walk
8:14with him, if you will if you will um
8:16come into alignment with the will of
8:18God, this is who you are in his eyes.
8:21But you have always a choice to partner
8:22with him." And so God was giving me
8:24these prophetic words. And so I went
8:26through my teenage years, went to
8:27college, came to the States for two
8:29years, lived in Ohio, and came back to
8:31Christ. Then went home, worked in sales
8:33and marketing for a few years. then went
8:34to theological college, went to
8:36seminary, was ordained at the age of 30
8:38and was an assistant pastor and the
8:41prophetic began to grow. I met my wife
8:42during that stage. I had kind of I'd
8:45kind of become a reformed Baptist at
8:46that stage. I went to a church in Ohio
8:48with a great pastor called Alistister
8:50Beg. Wonderful Scots guy. H wonderful
8:53guy, but very reformed, very I love his
8:56preaching, but the gift of the spirit,
8:58prophecy, all of that stuff. No way. met
9:01my wife when I was 33, 34 and she got
9:05baptized in the spirit, began to speak
9:06in tongues and she all these books that
9:08I had put away in boxes, she began to
9:11dig them out, you know, all these
9:12Pentecostal, charismatic books. And so
9:14we went into this renewal. I was the
9:16assistant pastor. We were leading this
9:18little group of 60 people on a Sunday
9:19night. We began to teach on this stuff
9:21and it grew to 250, 300, three or four
9:24weeks. I mean, it just exploded.
9:26Prophets were coming in. God was moving
9:29and and we began to taste something
9:32again of of what I had left behind. But
9:35and so the prophetic gift started
9:36growing there. But then something
9:38happened around we went to another
9:41church then in Dublin, Ireland, right
9:42beside the Guinness factory. Like
9:44literally our church was next door to
9:45where they make Guinness right next
9:48door. And we went into this church that
9:49was a mess. And the prophetic gift
9:51started growing at that point. But I
9:54remember there was one thing that
9:55happened around 2014. And I keep coming
9:58back to it. I was in a meeting in a
10:00church in the north. I was burnt out a
10:02bit and we were on summer vacation and
10:04we stopped in this church on the way
10:06home in Belfast. It's the church. Have
10:08you ever heard the song these are the
10:09days of Elijah?
10:11>> It was a church that that song was
10:12birthed out of. Robin Mark and uh and
10:15the pastor was preaching and he was
10:16talking about different generations and
10:18he said, "Those between 30 to 40 stand
10:20up." And I was 39 at that time. And I
10:22stood up and uh as I'm standing there,
10:26he's praying and my wife had Elijah was
10:29in the crash. Uh and Becky was down
10:31looking after him. But I'm standing
10:33there and literally as I'm standing
10:34there, he's just saying this generic
10:36kind of prayer. And I literally feel
10:38this. It was like a garment came down
10:42and rested upon me. And I went, "What
10:46was that?" And I sat down and it was so
10:48real to me. But you know the way after a
10:50few minutes you begin to go I just
10:51imagine that.
10:52>> Yep.
10:53>> And at the end of the meeting they
10:54called the prayer ministry team up and
10:55there was this old guy sitting about
10:57four rows behind me. I found out later
10:59his name's John. And he leaned over as
11:00he walked past and he said I saw what
11:02happened there. And I said, "What did
11:05you see?" He said, "I saw a garment
11:07coming down in the invisible spiritual
11:09realm and it landed upon you." And I
11:12said, "I felt it." He said, "Well, don't
11:14you doubt it because I saw it, too." And
11:16I would say that was when something
11:18shifted. And I I I don't know. I mean,
11:20that guy who was praying that day is
11:22kind of kind of if I felt spiritual
11:24father, it's him. So, there was
11:25something being transferred. He preached
11:27on my last Sunday a few weeks ago at my
11:29own church. And so, something began to
11:31shift after that. And it was only more
11:33recently that I began to look back and
11:34realize something happened there. There
11:36was a transference. There was an
11:37anointing, an impartation, whatever
11:39spiritual language you want to put
11:40around it. But I began then to go into
11:42places. Before that, I was probably just
11:44giving individuals the occasional
11:45prophetic word, you know, kind of
11:47generic. God's doing a new thing. Blah
11:48blah blah. I began to be invited into
11:50churches and I would go into churches
11:52and I remember there was one church, it
11:54was actually that particular church. A
11:55year later, I was back in to preach and
11:57God gave me a message. And in 2015, I'd
11:59forgotten this. I stood up and I said,
12:01"Guys, you need to update your ability
12:03to live stream. You don't need it now,
12:05but you'll need it in 2020."
12:07>> In 2015,
12:08>> I said this in 20 May 2015. I told them
12:11to update it because they would need it
12:12in 2020. I had forgotten all about that
12:14until the worship pastor sent me it in
12:162020. Wow.
12:17>> And so God began to give me these
12:20downloads. I would go into places and I
12:22would wake up in the early hours of the
12:23morning and he would say, "This is what
12:25I want you to share." And I would go in
12:28and I would be that's probably where
12:30things began to accelerate and I began
12:32to sense there's something on this. Uh I
12:35need to to lean into this because you
12:38can have a gifting, you can have
12:39whatever it is, but you still have to
12:41work at it.
12:42>> I always think it's a bit like, have you
12:44got IKEA here, the furniture store?
12:46Yeah,
12:46>> it's like IKEA furniture. It comes in
12:47bits.
12:49>> But actually, I think it's like that's
12:51come at random times. I don't even think
12:53it all comes in one package, but as you
12:55begin to put it together, God gives you
12:56the next bit. And then suddenly, you've
12:58got this whole I think we're constantly
13:00putting it together actually. And so, I
13:02began to get invited in as a prophetic
13:04voice and God began to use that more and
13:05more. Then
13:0818,
13:10I wanted to learn Instagram. I would
13:12love to tell you there was some deep
13:14spiritual reason for starting Daily
13:16Prophetic like that an angel showed up
13:18and River danced on the duvet. Um that
13:20didn't happen.
13:23I was uh 40some and I was on Facebook
13:26and all my friends were on Instagram and
13:27so I thought I'm going to start
13:28Instagram and I'm going to start this
13:29account called Daily Prophetic and I'm
13:31just going to go for a long walk each
13:33day and say Lord what do you want to say
13:34to your people? And I would come back
13:36and I would write it down. And there
13:37were these little yellow boxes of black
13:38thick bold black type. And I thought,
13:41you know, six people will follow me.
13:43Within a week, Bill Johnson from Bethl
13:45was following. I mean, it just took off.
13:49A thousand people a week were following
13:50me. And I had no idea this was going to
13:52happen. And [snorts] one of the things I
13:54often say is follow your favor.
13:57>> Follow your favor. Look at what the
13:59Lord's blessing. Pay attention to where
14:01the wind of the spirit is in your life.
14:03You know, if you're constantly striving
14:05and having to push something,
14:08that's probably the Lord might not be in
14:09it. But when there's this sense of
14:11there's just this ease. It doesn't mean
14:13everything's easy, but there's this
14:15ease, this grace, this sense of just the
14:17blessing of the Lord. You know, one of
14:19the things I I love, it's that old movie
14:21Chariots of Fire where Eric Liddell, the
14:23runner, says this, "When I run, I feel
14:25his pleasure
14:26>> where you feel the pleasure of God on
14:28something you're doing."
14:29>> And that's what I began to send. So I
14:30just kept posting and it kept growing
14:32and then I began to share. We had been
14:34through a significant transition the
14:35year before. I began to share about
14:37transition and people were like tell me
14:40more about this. You know we're in
14:42transition right now. We're struggling.
14:43You're really helping us bit like you
14:45were talking about a minute ago. And so
14:46I began to share more and then 2018
14:48wrote my first book the tension of
14:49transition. Then the next book the next
14:52book and then I began coaching. And so
14:53it's just been none of it was ever
14:55planned. None of it was ever a strategy.
14:57There was never any. It was simply Lord,
15:01what are you blessing? Where's the wind
15:03of your spirit? Where's your favor? I'm
15:05just going to lean into that right now.
15:07So, I've been a pastor for 20 years.
15:09I've been leading churches in Ireland
15:10for 20 years. And so, all of this other
15:12stuff has gone along with that, but it's
15:14also been alongside it as well. And so,
15:16h it's been a journey and it's still a
15:18journey.
15:18>> Okay. So, I have a question about this.
15:20Uh, and you don't have to answer it if
15:22you don't want to, but when I when I
15:24listen to this,
15:25>> um, it sounds amazing and it almost
15:27sounds like good for you.
15:30>> Sounds [laughter] easy.
15:32>> Yeah.
15:32>> But I don't think that it was easy.
15:34>> It wasn't.
15:35>> So hindsight is different because I
15:37[clears throat] think you look back and
15:38you see like look at what the Lord has
15:40done. But in the middle it's like well
15:41where in the world is the Lord? So all I
15:43mean when I say we walked through
15:45transition and all of the stuff came out
15:47of our transition. That was one of the
15:49hardest most crappy seasons of my entire
15:51life.
15:51>> Can you tell us why?
15:52>> Yeah. So we were leaving a church. We
15:53took on a church in inner city Dublin in
15:55a place where it was the in the '9s they
15:59brought heroin in there and they gave it
16:00to the kids for free. What?
16:02>> And so all the kids got hooked on
16:03heroin. And so we our church was
16:05literally right in the middle of that
16:06place. They planted a church. We took it
16:08on after 20 years because the pastor had
16:11been caught uh having moral failures
16:13with other guys. And so it was just a
16:15complete mess. The church had gone from
16:16one of the most significant impactful
16:18churches in the land to 40 50 people was
16:21about to one of the wealthiest churches
16:22too. They couldn't pay their bills. And
16:24so God said to us, "Will you go and lead
16:26this place?" We said, "No, we don't
16:27[laughter] want to go." The previous two
16:29pastors were out of ministry. We're
16:30like, "No, we're newly weds at this
16:31stage. We're like, no way are we going
16:33there." God said, "You're going." We
16:35were offered another church just down
16:36the road in this leafy suburb by the
16:38ocean who were just this beautiful
16:40lovely evangelical church. And we had
16:43the same we interviews three days apart
16:45and they both offered us the role. And
16:47we were driving out of we had the real
16:50messy one on the Friday, the really nice
16:52one on the Monday. We drove out of the
16:53big mansion that we had the interview on
16:54the Monday and Becky looked at me with
16:56tears in her eyes and went, "We're to go
16:57to the inner city, aren't we?" And I
16:58said, "Yep." And so we went there and it
17:01was awful and it was beautiful. We saw,
17:04you know, we took this church of 50 60
17:06people was a complete mess. They didn't
17:08want a leader um and we just began to
17:11pour our lives into it and we be and in
17:14two years we saw 200 people come to
17:16faith in Christ.
17:18>> Muslims, Hindus, drug addict. We had we
17:20had a small group of eight heroin
17:21addicts which was bizarre.
17:23>> They kept having to go to the bathroom
17:24to shoot. It was just crazy.
17:27>> Um I would look out my office looked out
17:29there was an old graveyard behind the
17:30church. It was an ancient church. had
17:32been a church there since the 11th
17:33century on that site. So there was such
17:35a history of just the presence of God
17:37there. [gasps] I would look out and
17:39people would have their pants around
17:40their ankles trying to find a vein to
17:41inject heroin because all their other
17:43veins were ruined. I mean that was
17:44literally it. We would have heroin
17:46addicts coming into church and doing
17:47deals during the service and stuff like
17:49that. People making out while I'm
17:50preaching because they didn't realize
17:51that's what you that's not what you do
17:53in church. You know, it was crazy. But
17:55it was, you know, the Lord gave me a
17:56vision when we arrived there of a going
17:58into a a neonatal unit and there were
18:01all these uh babies, but it was just
18:03there was just crap everywhere and it
18:06was just I was like, "This is
18:07disgusting." But then I just started
18:10laughing. And the Lord said to me, "This
18:11is going to be really messy, but you're
18:13going to have a lot of spiritual babies
18:14and it's going to be beautiful." And
18:16that's what happened. And so over the
18:17next two years, we began to grow. People
18:19were coming to Christ in their droves,
18:22but I began to get burnt out. But we
18:25just kept pouring ourselves into it
18:26because there was there's always more
18:28need than you can meet.
18:30>> Mhm.
18:30>> And so we kept pouring ourselves in and
18:32pouring ourselves in. And Becky got
18:34pregnant during the first year. I was
18:35part of that situation. And uh we had
18:38Elijah during the first year. And I just
18:40I don't remember much of the two years
18:42of his life because I was just at church
18:44all the time.
18:45>> Five, six nights a week. People were at
18:47our house. I was at church. But we just
18:49kept the fruit was so good. It was like
18:51a mini revival. and and we just kept
18:54pouring ourselves in and then I hit a
18:56bit of a wall. Um but I just kept going.
18:58The church was thriving. People needed
19:00me. I kept going and then we were due to
19:02take a sbatical after 5 years. Um
19:05something shifted. The grace began to
19:07lift. But and so we took a sbatical. Uh
19:10we were due to take a sabbatical and
19:11about probably 3 4 months before the
19:13sabbatical God began to wake me up at
19:164:30 every morning. And it almost became
19:18comical because literally I would wake
19:20up I would look at my phone beside my
19:21bed and 4:29 4:30
19:25>> and I always say look at the little
19:26patterns in your life. You know there's
19:27these things you see numbers constantly
19:30you you keep seeing a van with something
19:32or a truck with something written on it.
19:33Those little things and so I would begin
19:36to wake up at 4:30 most mornings and it
19:39would be like go to the secret place for
19:42as long as I want you there. Sometimes
19:43it would be 30 minutes. Most of the time
19:45it would be 90 minutes, 2 hours and then
19:47I'd go back to bed for an hour and get
19:48up again. And so this happened after
19:50about 2 weeks. I woke up, went out the
19:53hallway, knelt down inside. I I I try to
19:55kneel when I pray. I just I like that
19:57posture. And I was just saying, Lord,
19:59would you open a door for us? I sense
20:01that our time here is coming to an end.
20:02Will you open a door for us? And I
20:06immediately went into an open vision.
20:07And I I'm not a visionary. I'm not I
20:09normally hear, I I feel, I sense, but I
20:13went in. It was like a movie and I was
20:15in a prison cell and the prison officer
20:17came along and he said, "Craig, you've
20:18been released
20:20and I he opened the door and I began
20:22walking down the hallway of the prison."
20:23And I was doing prison ministry at this
20:24stage, Taylor, so I knew exactly what
20:26the inside I was actually the chaplain
20:27of a sex offenders prison, which was
20:29fun. Um, and uh, not and uh, and I was
20:34walking down the hallway towards freedom
20:36and the whole time I had this one
20:38question in my mind. Will there be
20:39anybody waiting on the other side? Will
20:42there be anybody waiting on the other
20:44side? And I remember the huge steel gate
20:46began to open and there was a car full
20:48of smiling faces waiting for me. And so
20:52I think this is where a lot of people
20:53get stuck with the prophetic. They get
20:55the revelation but they don't know what
20:56it means. There's always three parts.
20:58There's revelation, interpretation,
20:59application. Ria, revelation, what does
21:02God say? What do you see? What do you
21:03sense? What do you hear? The
21:04interpretation, what does it mean? It's
21:06like translating God.
21:07>> The application is then what do I do
21:09with it?
21:09>> Mhm. So the revelation I what was it
21:12like prayer? Will you open a door for
21:13us?
21:15Will you open a door for us to where
21:16you're going? He opened a door, but it
21:18wasn't a door to where we were going. It
21:19was a door releasing us from where we
21:21were.
21:23And I know it was a prison and that
21:25doesn't but as far as I'm concerned,
21:26when God calls you to an assignment, you
21:28are there and you are a prisoner there
21:30until he releases you.
21:32>> If God calls you to something, you don't
21:33leave until he releases you. And he can
21:35release you in different ways. It can be
21:37dramatic and can be subtle. But God was
21:39saying, "I am releasing you from this
21:41assignment, but you need to walk not
21:43knowing what's on the other side."
21:45And so I I I I had this vision over the
21:48next few weeks, but we Becky began to
21:50have prophetic dreams. We got
21:51confirmations. And I would love to tell
21:53you then that we said, "Right, we're
21:54leaving. We're moving on." This was,
21:56like I say, probably a couple of months,
21:57four months before our sabbatical.
22:00But I chickenened out. I was trying to
22:02be a responsible husband and father. I
22:04was h I I felt this huge weight to
22:08provide for my family and that's a good
22:10thing.
22:10>> Mhm.
22:11>> Responsibility to your family is a good
22:13thing unless you're being disobedient to
22:15the Lord.
22:17And so they said, "Look, will you take
22:19your sabbatical when you come back for
22:20another 3 years?" And I said, "Okay,
22:22we'll do that even though the Lord had
22:23told us to leave."
22:26And so then things began to fall apart
22:29very quickly. A month before our
22:31sabbatical, relationships just began to
22:34completely people who we were closest
22:36to, people who we thought we would do
22:38life with forever. People who we had had
22:40nothing but wonderful relationships with
22:43for 5 years. They just overnight
22:45something shifted. I to this day,
22:48Taylor, I have no idea what happened. I
22:50have no clue. But relation literally, I
22:53would go into a room and I'd have a
22:54conversation and I would leave really
22:56going what just happened there? these
22:58people are my best friends and they've
22:59just spoken to me in a way that's so
23:01dishonoring,
23:03so demeaning.
23:05>> Mhm.
23:05>> And I just and it got to the stage where
23:08I just went, Becky, we've got to leave
23:10here. We can't stay. I mean, we could
23:11stay, but we can't for our wellbeing and
23:13for the wellbeing of the church. And so,
23:15with 3 weeks to go before our
23:16sabbatical, we left. We announced we
23:19were leaving. And we couldn't tell the
23:21church why we were leaving because we
23:23wanted to protect the church. We wanted
23:24to protect our family and the church.
23:27And so when you when a pastor leaves
23:29within 3 weeks, everybody jumps to
23:30conclusions. Everybody fills in because
23:33mostly when pastors leave that quickly,
23:35it's because of immorality or something
23:36like that. And so we couldn't justify,
23:39we couldn't rationalize, we couldn't
23:40defend ourselves, we couldn't vindicate
23:42ourselves. The Lord said, "Don't you
23:43dare do that. You leave and I will
23:45vindicate you." So we walked away from
23:47that place completely broken and
23:49devastated. absolutely devastated that
23:52we' poured our lives into these people
23:53in this place and we had felt so
23:56completely dishonored
23:59and we took a sbatical
24:01and then we spent a year in another
24:04church and then the following year was
24:06when I began daily prophetic and so all
24:07of it was birthed out of the biggest
24:09mess that we've ever it was honestly it
24:12probably took about a year to 18 months
24:13for us to go through the the grieving
24:16the forgiveness process the you
24:20You let I I don't let a lot of people
24:22into my world. We're very protective, my
24:24wife and I. And we let this group of
24:27people in, particularly one couple who
24:29we took a younger couple who we took
24:31under and I want nothing but the best
24:33for them. We poured everything into them
24:34and for them to it was like an abselum
24:38situation where
24:40just began to undermine me began to say
24:42don't go to him go to come to me you
24:44know organized leadership meetings and
24:46invited me to come along even though I
24:47was a senior pastor and it was just
24:49horrendous and you begin to doubt
24:51yourself you begin to doubt your
24:53discernment and all of that and so it
24:54was just such a we left completely
24:57broken dishonored and we went into this
25:00wilderness
25:01and we grieved
25:03and we were angry and we were bitter
25:07and I I I didn't realize how much of my
25:09identity was caught up in that role. I
25:11know our identity should all be in
25:12Christ, but the reality is our identity
25:14isn't what we do very as men actually.
25:16So much of our identity. I was a
25:18successful pastor and now I was a pastor
25:20without a church. I felt like a complete
25:22impostor.
25:23Used to be people said, "What do you
25:24do?" And I would just say, "This is what
25:26I do." And people, they say, "What do
25:27you do?" I'd say, "I've left the
25:28church." Oh, right. Something must have
25:30went wrong. And so out of that was
25:33birthed all of this. And I would never
25:37ever ever want to go through it again.
25:40ever. But I would, if you were to give
25:42me a million dollars right now, I
25:44wouldn't change a thing.
25:46>> Yeah.
25:46>> Because all of that pain became
25:49something that has helped thousands of
25:51thousands of people across the globe.
25:54And it has opened up a whole new
25:56ministry. And you know what? God told us
25:58to leave and we weren't doing it. And I
26:00thought, like I said, I was being
26:01responsible, but I was being
26:02disobedient.
26:03And so God began to apply pressure. And
26:06he will do that sometimes.
26:07>> Mhm.
26:08>> I say the pressure has a purpose. It
26:09didn't feel like that at the time. It
26:11just felt like a mess.
26:12>> Mhm.
26:13>> But if you have got too comfortable, if
26:15God has told you to do something and
26:16you're disobedient, there will come a
26:18point where God will say, "I love you
26:19too much to let you stay in
26:21disobedience. And I have so much more
26:23for you and so I can't let you stay
26:26there." And so he will begin gently at
26:28first. You know, there's the there's the
26:30whisper and then there's a nudge and
26:32there's a knock and you know, and we got
26:34the knock
26:35>> in that order sometimes.
26:36>> Yeah, it is. And he whispered and he
26:38nudged and we weren't doing anything.
26:39And then he knocked and he shook our
26:41world. And uh in the Bible, Acts 18,
26:44what does Jesus say? Be my discip or be
26:46my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea,
26:48Samaria, ends of the earth. Acts chapter
26:518, 5 years later, where are the
26:52disciples? They haven't left Jerusalem.
26:545 years later, they haven't moved
26:56outside of Jerusalem. It's familiar.
26:58It's comfortable. It's religious center.
27:00It's the last place they were with
27:02Jesus. The church is really strong
27:04there. Peter's the leader of the church.
27:05What happens in Acts chapter 8?
27:07Persecution arises and the disciples are
27:09scattered. The believers are scattered.
27:11Where are they scattered to? Judea and
27:14Samaria. And it says they spread the
27:16word of the Lord there. They weren't
27:19willing to move. So God applies pressure
27:21to get them to where he told them to go.
27:24And so sometimes if God tells you to do
27:25something, he will tell you and tell you
27:27for a while. He'll give you opportunity.
27:28And if you don't do it, he will begin to
27:30and it's not to hurt you. It's actually
27:32bless you.
27:34But God will not let you settle too long
27:36in somewhere that he just doesn't want
27:38you to stay any longer. And so there was
27:40so much pain, heartache,
27:43grief,
27:45all of that. So yes, it sounds like a
27:47wonderful story, but it was one big mess
27:50in the middle.
27:52>> That makes me feel better.
27:53>> Yeah. And it there always is. There's
27:55the and you know what for years I
27:56couldn't talk about that because I
27:58wanted it was too raw for me but also I
28:01was so conscious of protecting the
28:03church and the people involved quite
28:04honestly some of them are no longer with
28:06us actually some of them have gone to be
28:08with the Lord since then um quite
28:10suddenly after that but um but I was
28:14just so conscious I couldn't talk about
28:16it without feeling really emotional for
28:18about two three years and it's only
28:20probably the last so if you read the
28:21tension of transition my first book none
28:23of that's in there you'll get you'll get
28:25the outline of the story, but if you
28:27read some of my more recent books,
28:28you'll get the more detailed stuff
28:30because it's only in the last few years
28:31that I felt I can now write about this
28:33because there's enough distance between
28:34it that I actually I can only write
28:36about it from a place of going, you
28:38intended it for evil, but God meant it
28:40for good. Genesis 50:20.
28:42>> Yep. I love that. That's a great story.
28:44Thanks for sharing that.
28:45>> Can we stay in this frame for just a
28:47little longer? U because this show is
28:49interesting in that like there there are
28:51a lot of people that I think we have a
28:54pretty significant audience this what
28:55you would call dchurched like they kind
28:57of came they're like this isn't real so
28:59they left and then we have the business
29:01people and new age people and all of
29:02these
29:03>> interesting mix mix of humans
29:06>> but um if we take just your human
29:11>> humanity like not necessarily what
29:13[clears throat] do I know to be true in
29:14in my mind but what do I feel
29:16>> have there
29:17moments in your life, significant
29:19moments where you were disappointed in
29:20God,
29:21or are you better than us?
29:23>> Honestly, [laughter]
29:25>> what a way to ask that question.
29:27>> Can I This is weird cuz I I've watched
29:29you ask people this before, Taylor, and
29:31I've thought about this
29:33>> and I most of my disappointment is in
29:36Craig, not God.
29:37>> Okay, interesting.
29:39>> Really? The person I struggle with isn't
29:41God. I And I I don't know why. I wasn't
29:45brought up in church, so I don't I guess
29:47I I just have a a different kind of It's
29:51always been kind of so fresh to me and
29:53I've only I I [clears throat] don't
29:55know. But I get so disappointed in me.
29:57>> Mhm.
29:58>> I look at myself and I go, God, how the
30:00heck can you use a mess like me, you
30:02know?
30:02>> Yeah.
30:03>> And even I've been a believer for 36
30:05years and I go, I know the stuff that's
30:07inside me. I know what goes on in here
30:09and in here still. Some of the battles I
30:11had as a teenager, I still struggle with
30:13and I have to constantly be on my guard
30:15against them and I wrestle with them.
30:17And so, yes, there's times when I feel,
30:18God, what the heck are you doing? You
30:20know, I feel like you've let me down.
30:22>> I've kept my end of the like like that.
30:24>> I kept my end of the deal kind of uh cuz
30:28we we left the church in the end and
30:30then it felt like nothing was opening
30:32up. And there's times when I just go,
30:34God, what are you doing here? I don't
30:35get this. This doesn't make sense. I
30:38mean, there's I remember holding a
30:42little basket with a one-year-old baby
30:43in it for a lady in our church,
30:47little Hugh and feeling like this is not
30:49right. You know, this the the baby had
30:52been born with a genetic defect and and
30:54and this little baby in this basket had
30:56died at one year old and just going,
30:59"God, this is not
31:01>> this is not right." Like,
31:03>> I don't know if I was angry at God. I
31:05just know cuz I felt like God's heart
31:06was absolutely broken in that.
31:09>> Right.
31:09>> But I remember doing that funeral that
31:11particular service and the spirit of God
31:14just descended on there and the room was
31:16full of non-believers. This lady her it
31:19was her son she owned a chain of
31:2025armacies. So she was very well known
31:24in Dublin and uh and as I began to share
31:28just the word of the Lord and just the
31:30it was like God brought healing into the
31:33room for everybody non-believers
31:36believers and everybody walked out with
31:38tears in their eyes not at grief about
31:40the baby but it was almost like all of
31:42their own pain came to the surface
31:45>> and there was like this healing thing
31:46that happened.
31:48>> Yeah. And so, yes, there's times
31:50obviously I question things. I I'm
31:52disappointed with the way things turn
31:54out. But honestly, most of my
31:56disappointment is not with God. It's
31:58with primarily me and sometimes other
32:00other people cuz I I because I have such
32:05a high expectation of myself. I put the
32:07same expectation onto other people. Like
32:09I wouldn't treat you like that. So I
32:11can't believe you would treat me like
32:13that.
32:13>> Yeah. And so most of it honestly isn't,
32:17you know, with God. It's it's with me
32:19and with other people if I'm being
32:20really honest with you.
32:21>> Yeah, that makes sense. Still
32:23disappointment, but with yourself.
32:25>> How do you get over that?
32:27>> I don't know if I do. I think I
32:29constantly wrestle with it. I constantly
32:32have to remind myself of truth. I speak
32:35God's truth over my life every single
32:37day. I take 10 to 15 minutes every day
32:40and speak truth over it. I took
32:42communion this morning. I took communion
32:43yesterday morning. I get up. I kneel
32:45beside my bed and I thank you, God, that
32:47I'm that the blood of Jesus covers my
32:49sin. Yeah.
32:50>> I thank you that his body was broken so
32:52that you can heal my brokenness. I thank
32:54you, Jesus, that I'm under a new
32:55covenant. You know, I just and and so I
32:58just keep filling my mind with truth
33:00because if I don't do that, all of these
33:02thoughts of you are nothing. You're
33:04nobody. God could never use someone like
33:06you. you're a you know h I honestly I've
33:09always wrestled with insecurity and
33:11imposttor syndrome constantly even as a
33:14kid inferiority I used to look at all of
33:16my friends houses and think their houses
33:17were nicer than ours
33:19>> and I moved back to our community when I
33:21was 40 and I drove around their houses
33:22and went actually some of them weren't
33:24some of them weren't but in my mind they
33:25always had more I had this poverty
33:28spirit I always believed they had more
33:29money than I had that they had they were
33:32better looking than I was that that
33:33[laughter] they had a better life and
33:34and sometimes it was true but I I've
33:37always had this deep insecurity and
33:39inferiority in there. And so I've
33:40constantly had to remind myself cuz when
33:43God and it's like Moses, you know, who
33:45am I? And it's not about who I am. It's
33:48about who he is. But I've constantly had
33:50to remind myself of who I am in him.
33:53I've constantly had to speak truth. On
33:55the way to church every Sunday, I said,
33:56"God, thank you that I am anointed.
33:58Thank you that I am appointed. Thank you
34:00that you're going to give me the word."
34:01You know, I I every Sunday in life, I
34:05preach to myself before I preach to
34:07anyone else.
34:08>> Yeah.
34:08>> I get up at 5:00 a.m. most mornings, and
34:11the first hour is just on my knees
34:14studying the word, praying, but most of
34:16it is actually just declaring truth over
34:18my life because my mind goes to all
34:20sorts of places.
34:21>> Yeah.
34:22>> And so if I don't feel I I every day I
34:24say I decree and declare the blessing
34:26and favor of God over my life, over my
34:28home, over my family. I I spoke it over
34:31this conversation today, over my wife,
34:33over my son, over my mental health, over
34:34my wife's, you know, over our phys over
34:37our finances, over my ministry, over my
34:38purity, my holiness, my godliness, my
34:40character, my discipline, my
34:41self-control, my my preaching gift, my
34:43prophetic gift, my anoint, every area of
34:46my life, I speak the blessing of God
34:48every single day. I've been doing that
34:50for years. Is my life perfect? No. Is it
34:53better than it was before I started
34:54doing that? Abso flippingutely.
34:57>> Yeah. Okay. Am I I'm going to start
34:58bouncing you around. when I'm my age,
35:00he's going to start shaking you.
35:01>> Um cuz you're Have you ever seen Can you
35:04get this image in your head of like a a
35:06ferocious
35:07>> like uh Doberman dog that's like
35:09terrifying that's like in a cage though?
35:11>> Yeah.
35:12>> Um and it's not necessarily in a cage
35:15>> because it's enslaved against his will,
35:17but it's just like you can't just go
35:18after everyone. You're you feel like
35:20that to me in the spirit,
35:22>> but the cage is almost like the
35:24discipline that you have in the Holy
35:25Spirit. Like I can see you have some
35:28something where you could like I feel
35:29like you're a fire breather, bro. Like
35:32>> fire has always been the big thing in my
35:33life.
35:33>> You could just open your mouth and speak
35:36fire over things, but you're very very
35:38submissive to what the Lord like you're
35:40not going to speak fire unless the Lord
35:41is asking you to do it.
35:42>> Yeah.
35:42>> Um you're the only person that I've ever
35:44interviewed
35:46that the spirit of God showed up in my
35:49office before you even got here.
35:51>> And I felt it this morning when I walked
35:53in. It was probably around like 7:15 and
35:55I walked in. And I was like,
35:56>> I can feel it right now
35:58>> going on in this room and I was on a
36:00call with somebody else and I was like,
36:02I just figured it out. Craig's coming
36:03today. I think God put something in here
36:05before you even got here
36:07>> and I want to see if we can like start
36:09breaking. I think the Lord will let us
36:11open that door for a second. Yeah.
36:13>> Cuz I think you have
36:14>> I think you have specific words to
36:15actually speak over listeners. Yeah.
36:17Today that are very specific.
36:19>> Um,
36:20and I want to get there, but you spoke
36:22about communion. M
36:24>> can I ask you some questions about
36:25communion? Whatever you want.
36:26>> I'm super curious in communion right now
36:28because I'm always playing.
36:29>> Uh so I I I have not
36:32>> one of our pastors came over and we did
36:33communion about a month ago and it was
36:35the first time I taken communion in
36:36probably 3 years.
36:37>> Wow.
36:37>> Because I'm playing right
36:38>> while communion is happening and I don't
36:40always go back and
36:42>> do it. And so we had this big thing that
36:43we were praying for. We have not seen
36:44any movement on this in two years. Two
36:46years I've been praying for this. And
36:49they were like we need to do communion.
36:50So they came to our office. We did
36:51communion. It was a Friday.
36:54By Monday, both of those two things had
36:57been fixed.
36:58>> Yeah.
36:59>> And I was like, "Okay, wait, hold on.
37:01What is communion?"
37:02>> Yeah.
37:03>> And I grew up in the Assemblies of God
37:05and like Pentecostals, like they all do
37:06communion, but I don't think anybody
37:07knows what it means.
37:08>> Yeah. It's just tokens, we say.
37:09>> Yeah. It's like, I want a little I want
37:11a snack. Let's get communion. What is
37:13What is this spiritual mechanism?
37:16>> Yeah.
37:16>> What is this doing?
37:17>> It is a physical act with a spiritual
37:20reality behind it. bit like baptism.
37:22>> Okay.
37:22>> So, we don't go to the extreme Catholic
37:24side where we believe it's the physical
37:26body and blood of Christ. But neither do
37:28I go to the the evangelical side where
37:30it's just a token. I actually believe
37:33that when you take communion, something
37:36spiritual happens. God spiritually feeds
37:39you with himself [snorts] and something
37:43shifts. anytime we're getting sick and
37:46normally sometimes we'll find that all
37:47three of us in our house are getting
37:48sick at the same time which is kind of
37:49it's like the enemy will sometimes
37:50overplay as we immediately sit around
37:52the table and take communion together
37:54the next day we get up and we're healthy
37:56>> completely healthy
37:57>> like warfare almost
37:58>> yeah and so communion just reminds the
38:00enemy of what Jesus has done his body
38:03was broken his blood was shed we're
38:04under a new covenant and you have no
38:05power no authority over us whatsoever
38:08you have no right in my family in my
38:10house in my health in my f you have zero
38:13room here. I love the way Jesus said,
38:15"The enemy has nothing in me." That's
38:17what I want in me and my family. I want
38:19the enemy to come to me and go, "I have
38:21nothing in that guy. I can't touch him
38:23because of he has the righteousness of
38:25Christ all over him. And he's walking in
38:28truth. He's walking in purity. He's
38:29walking in integrity." I'd love that to
38:31always, but but you know what?
38:32Communion, I literally I spend about I
38:34don't do it casually. I sit there with
38:36the the wafer, the bread in my hand and
38:38I will break it in two and I will say,
38:40"Jesus, your body was broken for me."
38:44>> And I don't have to be broken. You know,
38:46we've we have made brokenness a badge of
38:49honor in our culture.
38:50>> Jesus doesn't want you to live a broken
38:52life.
38:54Jesus died. His body was broken so that
38:57your brokenness could be healed.
39:01>> Yes, we all have wounds. We all have
39:02suffer. But God's will is not that you
39:05go through 80 years of your life broken
39:08just carrying this brokenness around
39:10>> as an excuse for, you know, your misery,
39:12your bad behavior. Jesus wants to heal
39:15your brokenness.
39:16>> His body was broken that you might not
39:19be broken.
39:21Everything that was broken in Eden,
39:24Jesus came as the second Adam to fix it.
39:29And so when Jesus died on the cross and
39:31when he rose again, everything that we
39:33lost in Eden
39:36was undone and we got the fullness back
39:40of that intimacy with God, that
39:42communion with God. That's why we can
39:43hear his voice. But also that
39:45brokenness, that hiding, that shame,
39:47that all of that, I believe all of that
39:49was restored. Ultimately, there's a
39:51final restoration when we go to be with
39:52him. But I believe we can live in some
39:54element of the fullness of that right
39:55now. So communion for me is so vital. So
39:59so vital. I I I I I I would take
40:02communion probably four or five times a
40:04week at home. We take communion in
40:07church all the time. I I just I I would
40:09take it every day if I could remember.
40:11But particularly at those times of
40:13warfare and there's something
40:16spiritual that actually the spirit of
40:18God when you when you receive it with
40:21the when you're not casual, I'm just,
40:22you know, I'm just throwing the wafer.
40:23I'm drinking the juice real quickly.
40:25when you're actually intentionally
40:28consciously reminding that's why the
40:30Apostle Paul says don't do this casually
40:32because some people have gone have
40:34become sick and even died because
40:36they've done this casually in 1
40:37Corinthians.
40:38>> Mhm.
40:39>> Why would that be with if it's just a
40:41casual bread and juice
40:43>> there is something more powerful in the
40:45spiritual realm behind that that the
40:47demons recognize that the enemy
40:49recognizes and that the Holy Spirit
40:50recognizes. So, I believe it's not the
40:52physical body and blood of Christ, but I
40:53actually believe that a spiritual
40:55transformation happens in the bread and
40:56juice. When you bless it, when you
41:00remember what the Lord has done, I
41:02actually I believe I'm taking in
41:04something of the presence of Christ into
41:06my body when I take the bread and the
41:07juice. And so, I have seen things shift
41:12dramatically and like I say, I've seen
41:15healing. I've seen deliverance come to
41:17people. If I'm going to do anything
41:19where there's, you know, likely to be
41:21warfare or an attack, I always make sure
41:23I take communion. I brought a bunch of
41:24communion kits with me here. I brought
41:26oil. As soon as I walked into my hotel
41:27room, every door was anointed with oil.
41:30>> What is that with you?
41:31>> I don't know what's going on in that
41:32hotel room,
41:33>> right?
41:34>> I don't know who was there a week before
41:36and what they brought into the room. I
41:37don't know what little demons or spirits
41:39are hovering around the place. So, I I I
41:42anoint every single doorpost and I say,
41:44"Holy Spirit, fill this place. Cuz door
41:48posts are access points. Holy like with
41:50the cross, you know, when we were in
41:51Dublin particularly, we used to see this
41:53a lot. People would move into houses and
41:54they would say, "Craig, things are
41:57flying off the wall." Or I remember even
41:59my first church, there was one people
42:01called me and they weren't even
42:02believers. They said, "Craig, there's
42:03one room in our house that no matter how
42:05long we have the heat on, it's
42:07freezing." And they said, "We went in
42:09there the other day and a picture flew
42:10off the wall."
42:11>> Wow.
42:11>> They said, "We don't know what's going
42:13on. Would you come around?" And I went
42:14around and I anointed the room with oil
42:16and everything shifted. And a week
42:18later, the people who used to own the
42:19house came and called and they said, "We
42:21are so sorry. We should have told you."
42:23And they began to talk about how there
42:25had been a Ouija board done and there
42:26had been all of this stuff had happened
42:27in that house and particularly that
42:28room. But as soon as I anointed it with
42:30oil and filled it with the presence of
42:32God, things shifted. I have a prayer
42:34that I pray over my life probably every
42:36two or three days, breaking curses. I
42:38have it on my phone.
42:39>> Can you pray it?
42:40>> Yeah, I'll get it now. And then also
42:43like just show people how you pray about
42:45these things.
42:45>> Yeah. But I mean this literally I pray
42:47this every probably two or three days.
42:50Um let me I pray it yesterday. Let me
42:53curse this. I think I stole it from a
42:56guy called John Ehart. So I want to give
42:57credit where it's due.
43:00>> Heavenly Father, I repent of any sins in
43:03my life and my ancestors lives that have
43:06resulted in a curse. I repent of all
43:08disobedience, rebellion, witchcraft,
43:12idolatry, lust, perversion, adultery,
43:17fornication, mistreatment of others,
43:19murder, cheating, lying, sorcery,
43:22divination, and occult involvement. And
43:25I ask for your forgiveness and cleansing
43:26through the blood of the Lord Jesus
43:28Christ. I take authority over and break
43:32any and every curse upon my life in the
43:35name of Jesus. I break all curses of
43:38poverty, lack, debt, destruction,
43:41sickness, death, and vagabondism.
43:44I break all curses on my marriage, my
43:46family, my children, my home, and my
43:48relationships. I break curses of
43:50rejection, pride, rebellion, lust, hurt,
43:54incest, rape, Ahab, Jezebel, fear,
43:58insanity, madness, and confusion. I
44:00break all curses affecting my finances,
44:02my mind, my sexual character, my
44:04emotions, my will, and my relationships.
44:07I break every hex, jinx, spell, and
44:10spoken curse over my life. I break every
44:12feather, shackle, chain, cord, habit,
44:14and cycle that is a result of a curse.
44:16According to Galatians 3:13, I have been
44:19redeemed from the curse of the law by
44:20the sacrifice of Jesus. I exercise my
44:22faith in the blood of Jesus. I lose
44:24myself and my descent from any and every
44:26curse. I claim forgiveness through the
44:29blood of Jesus for the sins of the
44:30fathers. All of my sins have been
44:32remitted and I loose myself from the
44:33curse that came as a result of all
44:35disobedience and rebellion to the word
44:37of God. I exercise my faith and I know
44:39that confession is made on salvation
44:40according to Romans 10. Therefore, I
44:42confess that Abraham's blessings are
44:44mine. I am not cursed, but I am blessed.
44:48I am the head, not the tail. I am above
44:50and not beneath. I am the lender and not
44:52the borrower. I am blessed coming in and
44:55blessed going out. I am blessed and what
44:57God has blessed cannot be cursed. I
45:00command spirits of rejection, hurt,
45:02bitterness, unforgiveness, bondage,
45:04torment, death, destruction, fear, lust,
45:08perversion, mind control, witchcraft,
45:10poverty, lack, debt, destruction,
45:13double-mindedness,
45:14sickness, confusion, infirmity, pain,
45:17divorce, separation, strife, contention,
45:20depression, sadness, loneliness,
45:23self-pity, self-rejection,
45:26anger, rage, wrath, anguish, vagabond,
45:29ism, insecurity, inferiority, abuse and
45:32addiction to come out in the name of
45:35Jesus. Lord, I thank you for setting me
45:38free from every curse and from every
45:40spirit that has operated in my life as a
45:42result of a curse. Amen.
45:44>> Amen.
45:45Every two or three days you pray
45:46>> every two or three days cuz you don't
45:48know what people have spoken over you in
45:49those two or three days. particularly in
45:51warfare particularly you know those
45:52times when you just get a sense there's
45:54something not right%
45:55>> something like and nothing has changed
45:58for me externally but I feel there's
46:01something coming against me
46:03>> I get on my knees I'll take communion
46:04I'll pray that prayer
46:06>> I've you know we cursing is something we
46:08don't talk about a lot
46:09>> Jesus said bless and do not curse why
46:11would he say that unless curses were
46:13real
46:15Jesus looked at a tree and he cursed it
46:18a tree a fig tree. He cursed it and it
46:22weathered and died.
46:24>> Have you studied why he did that from a
46:28non-religious point of view?
46:29>> No.
46:31>> The only reason I as people have like to
46:33make up these things about, you know,
46:35the gamatria numbers
46:36>> because it talks about it wasn't the
46:37season for things. So, I was in an
46:39elevator and I was at an elevator at an
46:42event and God was talking to me about
46:44times and we're going to get to this
46:46because I I feel like God has
46:48conversations with me, but I'm
46:50>> like yourself. I've seen how people can
46:52weaponize that. And so, I typically
46:54don't just go out and be like, "God told
46:56me this, God told me that, whatever."
46:57But, so I'm like, but I'm I'm in an
46:58elevator and I feel the spirit of God in
47:00the elevator
47:01>> and I'm by myself and I'm like, "Yo,
47:04what's up? [snorts] Why what are we
47:05doing here?" similar to how I walked in
47:07my office this morning. There's this
47:09presence of the Holy Ghost and
47:11>> I'm kind of like, I didn't I didn't
47:13request this.
47:13>> Yeah.
47:14>> So, why are you here?
47:15>> It was in this elevator and and he said,
47:18uh, the Holy Spirit said times and
47:21seasons. I said, "Okay,
47:26what do you mean?" Yeah.
47:27>> You know, like, well, I don't know what
47:28he says, why did Jesus curse the tree?
47:31And I was like, you mean the fig tree
47:33and stuff? And I said, 'Well, I'm sure
47:34there's a lot of reasons, but it sounds
47:36like you want to give me one of those
47:38reasons or you're or you're going to
47:39make me go study one of the reasons
47:40wasn't. And the Holy Spirit said very
47:43clearly, he said, "Because the tree did
47:45not perceive the time."
47:47>> And we look at that and we say, "Well,
47:49why did Jesus get upset with the tree
47:52when it wasn't in season to produce?"
47:56>> Yeah.
47:56>> But reality is that the tree did not
47:58perceive the time because Jesus is here.
48:01>> Yeah. It should have been producing. it
48:02should have been producing because
48:03there's the the clock of the earth is
48:06subject to the clock of Zion and the
48:07clock
48:07>> the creator of the tree was there
48:09>> you produce he's there
48:11>> and I was like wow that's so deep then I
48:14was like what does that mean and then
48:15the moment was gone and so I'm I'm in
48:18the process of studying that right now
48:19to understand like there's something
48:20that God wants to get in terms of people
48:22perceiving the time and the season we're
48:23in
48:25>> um so back back to your point you know
48:27you talked about curses
48:28>> yeah curses and so this was really I
48:30mean this is one of those things I never
48:31really thought about, you know, in our
48:33little evangelical subculture. We don't
48:34like to talk about this stuff. When we
48:36were in one of our previous churches,
48:38there was a girl who was on our worship
48:40team. Her and her husband were worship
48:41pastors. And this was one of those
48:42families who on the surface, they lovely
48:44middle class, godly family, but they
48:46kept going from crisis to crisis,
48:48disaster to disaster, one thing after
48:49the other. And the latest one was she
48:51had been bleeding for a year.
48:54>> Like the woman in Mark 5 with the issue
48:55of blood.
48:56>> Wow.
48:56>> She had been bleeding for a year. She
48:58had been to all the doctors. They hadn't
48:59been able to figure it out.
49:01And uh she was a runner. She wasn't able
49:04to run for a year. She wasn't able to
49:06have intimacy with her husband. It was
49:08awful. And so Becky and I decided we
49:10would go around and pray with her one
49:11morning. And before we went around, I
49:13said, "Lord, what is this? What's going
49:15on here?" And the Lord said, "Ask her
49:17about this particular time period." I
49:19think it was like 7 years before or
49:20whatever. So we went around and I said,
49:22"Uh, I'll call her Ruth. That wasn't her
49:24name, but I want to protect her." I
49:25said, "Ruth, what happened seven years
49:26ago?" And she said, "Nothing. I don't
49:28know." And I said, "No, Ruth, what
49:29happened 7 years ago?" And she thought
49:31back and she said, "That's when we left
49:33our previous church." And I said,
49:35"Right, what happened?" She said, "Well,
49:37what do you mean?" I said, "What
49:38happened?" She said, "Well, we were part
49:40of this church. The pastor was really
49:43kind of controlling. My husband was one
49:44of four elders. We were so deeply
49:47involved, but he was so controlling."
49:49And eventually the Lord opened our eyes
49:51to it, and my husband resigned as an
49:54elder, and we left. And at the same time
49:56then the other three elders also
49:57resigned and we left. And I said what
49:59happened after that? She said you know
50:01what I've never thought about this
50:02before but all four of the elders wives
50:04and the next year had a miscarriage
50:07and I said right that's not the enemy's
50:10overplayed his hand here. There's
50:11something going on here. And I said I
50:14believe what has h have you ever read
50:15the book I give you authority by Charles
50:17Craft? Fantastic book. Read it.
50:19Fantastic. It's all about the different
50:21life. So I was reading this at the time
50:23and I said, "Do you know what has
50:24happened? That you came under his
50:26authority, he has put a curse on you.
50:30I believe your pastor
50:32has put a curse on you because when you
50:34come under authority, they have the
50:37right to do that."
50:39And I said, "We are now your pastor so
50:41we can break this if you want." But
50:42she's like, "Yeah, I want you to break
50:44it." Yeah. And so Becky and I laid hands
50:47on her at 12:00 noon. We laid hands on
50:49her and we said, "In the name of Jesus,
50:51as her pastors, we now have authority to
50:53cancel the previous authority. In the
50:55name of Jesus, we command healing." We
50:57left her house 12:00 noon. An hour
51:00later, she phoned Becky said, "The
51:01bleeding has stopped and it has never
51:03come back."
51:05Wow.
51:06>> The same time in my denomination,
51:07something it was just, it's so strange.
51:09It happened around the same time. There
51:10was one pastor in my denomination who
51:12was causing a whole load of bother. And
51:14one of the leaders was stepped in to try
51:16and sort it out. And the pastor who was
51:18causing all the ber actually said, "I've
51:19put a curse on you." I mean, this is
51:22true. Do you know what? The guy who put
51:24a curse on died a year later from the
51:25guy who was completely healthy. He died
51:27from aggressive cancer. I think it was
51:28six maybe a maximum a year later. My
51:32bishop told me what had happened. That's
51:33how I know. My bishop, who I'm good
51:35friends with, told me that's what had
51:37happened. And so I began to go imagine
51:39two different pastors
51:41>> were able to put curses
51:43>> Mhm. on. So that that opened me up to
51:47the reality of the power of words.
51:49>> Yep.
51:50>> And how you can speak something and it
51:54it's just words, but something tangibly,
51:58physically, spiritually shifts when you
52:01do that. Life and death are in the power
52:02of the tongue.
52:03>> Yep. I I would expand that. And you can
52:06correct this if this is wrong, but
52:08>> I had a I had it it was almost like an
52:11open vision one time, and I've never
52:12shared this with you or anyone on the
52:14team. It was for me, but I'm going to
52:16run this by you because I want it
52:17confirmed or I want you to fix it
52:19>> where I saw the authority of even a
52:22podcast
52:23>> being able to curse.
52:24>> Yeah. Absolutely.
52:25>> Or bless
52:26>> if you come under that.
52:27>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
52:29>> It's so what?
52:32>> So the spiritual world operates in
52:33hierarchies.
52:34>> Yep.
52:35>> It respects hierarchies. So in my home,
52:37I'm the head of the home. Mhm.
52:39>> So I have an ability to speak life or
52:41death over our home.
52:42>> As a pastor, I'm the head of the church.
52:44In our church, Christ is ultimately the
52:46head, but in that congregation, I'm the
52:47head.
52:48>> I have an authority there that I don't
52:51have say in somebody else's church.
52:53>> Right. Right.
52:54>> So what I speak there has life and
52:55death. Yeah.
52:57>> And so as a podcaster even when people
53:01give you that voice in their life, that
53:03authority, they come under that
53:05authority and what you speak has the
53:07power to release life or death. I
53:09absolutely believe that.
53:10>> Absolutely. Yeah. It was uh it was it
53:13was the beginning of last year and it
53:16was it wasn't I wasn't doing anything
53:18wrong. It was [clears throat] it was
53:19around the time remember the time where
53:21I did that fast
53:23>> and I was mad about it and God was like
53:25it would be better for you to pray and
53:27not fast than to fast and not pray and I
53:28was getting in trouble for this but it
53:30was he said there's coming a time when
53:32people will listen to you all around the
53:34earth and they will assume that you're
53:36speaking on my behalf so you better
53:37clean this
53:38>> clean this up and then I saw that same
53:40thing of different people in media that
53:44had things in their own hearts that did
53:46not look like Jesus and that was being
53:49multiplied in the people that were
53:51listening to him.
53:52>> Disseminate it like seeds.
53:54>> Yeah, dude. I was like, "Okay,
53:56[clears throat] we're either going to
53:57stop the show or I'm going to have to
54:00ask God to search my heart."
54:01>> Yeah.
54:01>> Cuz I'm to guard your mouth.
54:03>> To guard my mouth. Yes. Which we're
54:04still working on that.
54:05>> Yeah. And we all are. You know, I love I
54:07love humor. I love inappropriateness.
54:10>> I always say if you come to our church,
54:11you'll laugh and cry at the same
54:12service.
54:13>> Yes.
54:13>> And I want that.
54:14>> Yeah.
54:16But I've also had to really be careful
54:17what I say,
54:18>> right?
54:18>> Cuz I I don't because maybe of all that
54:21insecurity and stuff, I don't realize
54:23the power of my words. My wife has has
54:25kept reminding me, Craig, you need to be
54:27really careful what particularly with my
54:29son, I've realized it more and more, you
54:30know.
54:30>> Yes.
54:31>> That I will always try to speak life
54:33over him
54:35>> and he I mean he's a wonderful kid, but
54:37we are so intentional around our words
54:39to the point where when our son was
54:41seven and we would say anything
54:42negative, he would go, "We don't we
54:43don't speak like that in our house." M
54:45>> because your words are prophesying your
54:46future.
54:47>> Mhm.
54:47>> Always.
54:48>> That's right.
54:48>> Always.
54:50>> And I would rather, you know, even where
54:52I talk about I speak the blessing of God
54:54over my life, my home, my family, people
54:56go, I would rather speak life than speak
54:59anything else. And so,
55:00>> yeah,
55:01>> things honestly when I began to do that
55:023, four years ago, everything began to
55:04shift for us.
55:06>> Yeah.
55:06>> Everything began to shift for us. It's
55:08not magic. It's not, you know, it's not
55:10whatever. But there's [clears throat]
55:12when you speak life, when you speak the
55:16blessing that the the blessing of God is
55:19not just some vague thing. It is the
55:22blessing of Yahweh.
55:23>> Yeah.
55:24>> Over your life, over your wife, your
55:27children, your job, your speak. You
55:30know, why was it so important for them
55:32to say the Lord bless you and keep you?
55:33the Lord make his you know that wasn't
55:34just some it was it sh why did that
55:38become such a big thing in 2020 that
55:40song the blessing there was some sort of
55:43power in that that was coming against
55:44the spirit of co actually I believe
55:47everywhere around the world people
55:49wanted to listen to that song first time
55:51I heard it I thought I don't think much
55:52of that and then I listened to and there
55:55was just there was this anointing upon
55:56it
55:57>> but when I just I was just like they've
55:58just taken a Bible verse and they've
56:00sang a song I you know anyone can do
56:01that but then you realize no at a time
56:04of confusion and desperation and fear
56:07they are decreeing over your children
56:09and your children's children and people
56:11were weeping as they were saying it
56:12>> y
56:13>> and so you realize just how powerful
56:15when you speak the so as an Anglican as
56:18an episcop we end every service where I
56:21stand at the front and I say in the name
56:23of the father son and holy spirit I
56:25bless you and I believe when I do that I
56:29am releasing so most of our church now
56:31when I do that will stand like this to
56:33receive. The word for receive is
56:35lambano. To re I always say receiving
56:38isn't a passive thing. You you receive
56:39it. You grab hold of it. And they are
56:42grabbing hold of the blessing of God,
56:44you know.
56:44>> Yeah.
56:46>> I've done less funerals probably than
56:47any other pastor that I know in the last
56:4920 years or the last 15 anyway. We have
56:53an unusually we've unusually healthy
56:54churches. [laughter] And I I I don't
56:57know. I just I believe that when we
56:59bring covering like that, when we speak
57:01blessing, something happens.
57:03>> Yeah. Okay, one more thing I want you to
57:04to tackle and then we'll take a break.
57:07>> You got to get used to the bathroom. But
57:09>> um the while you're talking, the word
57:14warhorse keeps coming up to me and it
57:17the difference between a a waror. Have
57:20you ever seen how they train like the
57:22old history? My kids are obsessed with
57:24this. It's like we we'll be driving
57:25around and we'll be listening to like
57:27the history of cheese on YouTube, the
57:29history of chocolate, like all of these
57:31old history things, but then the history
57:33of war horses and how you train horses,
57:35how you break a horse and train a horse.
57:37Um, the difference between a genuine
57:39waror and an equally sturdy horse that's
57:43not actually a waror is the direction.
57:46>> A waror will run into it.
57:48>> Whereas the primal instinct of most
57:50horses, even with strength, is to run
57:51away from it. You have a unique ability
57:54to have this warhorse anointing in the
57:55spirit because you look at a situation
57:58and you see the enemy in it and you
58:00actually run into it.
58:02>> So, can you use your words for just a
58:04second
58:04>> for the people that are watching this
58:06and and they have situations in their
58:08lives that are making them timid,
58:09fearful, afraid. They're actually
58:11>> not convinced of their authority in
58:13Jesus. And they're they're they're
58:16wrestling because they feel like the
58:17enemy has come after them. and they
58:19don't realize that to a David Goliath is
58:23not a big deal. They have to actually
58:25that there's something needs to be
58:26unlocked with what you're saying for
58:28these people to be able to run into it
58:30instead of away from it. What would you
58:32say to those people to to reorient them?
58:36>> I would say to you that you need to
58:39understand what Christ has done for you
58:41and what Christ has given you.
58:44Christ has taken every single sin,
58:49shame, blemish, every rotten thing
58:52you've ever done. So insecurity,
58:54inferiority, fear, intimidation are not
58:57part of your life. You may feel them,
58:59but they're just feelings are not the
59:01reality. Feelings are good indicators,
59:03but they're terrible dictators.
59:05And they are just feelings. They're just
59:07emotions. But I want to tell you that in
59:09Christ, you have authority. You have not
59:12only authority, you have all authority.
59:15And there is whatever is coming against
59:17you, come against it.
59:20Don't run away from it. Run towards it.
59:23I love where it says David ran towards
59:25Goliath.
59:27He ran towards the thing that everyone
59:29was passively standing watching hoping
59:31it would go away. [snorts] He ran
59:33towards the enemy. And I believe that as
59:36you actually run towards the thing that
59:39you are terrified of, as you have that
59:41hard conversation,
59:43as you have that vulnerability where you
59:45open up and you say, "This is where I'm
59:47wrestling. This is where I'm
59:48struggling." As you confront that issue
59:50that you've been putting off because of
59:52fear, as you actually move towards
59:55whatever it is, you will see that
59:58actually it's just a mist. It's just a
1:00:01it's just a shadow. It's not even real.
1:00:04And I would speak over you today the
1:00:07authority of Yahweh.
1:00:09God has given you authority over
1:00:12everything that you think has authority
1:00:14over you. One of the things I love in
1:00:16the story of Jesus with the wind and the
1:00:18waves where he walked on water. In those
1:00:21days, water represented chaos.
1:00:24People were afraid of water. Leviathan
1:00:26was seen to live in the ocean. Jesus
1:00:28walked on top of that thing which they
1:00:31were afraid of. That which was over
1:00:33their heads was under his feet.
1:00:37That which is over your head, you think
1:00:39it's over your head, is actually under
1:00:41your feet.
1:00:43Because Jesus is the head, you're the
1:00:45body. And if Jesus is the head and
1:00:48you're the body, where is everything in
1:00:49relation to you? It's under your feet.
1:00:52So I just speak over you today
1:00:54authority.
1:00:56I speak over you courage. I speak over
1:00:59you a David anointing to run towards
1:01:01that giant. Who is this uncircumcised
1:01:05Philistine that he should defy the
1:01:07armies of Yahweh?
1:01:11Remember your covenant.
1:01:14That's what he meant by uncircumcised
1:01:15Philistine. This guy might be big, but
1:01:18he's not in covenant with Yahweh.
1:01:21I'm in covenant with Yahweh. And when
1:01:23you're in covenant with Yahweh, God
1:01:25takes that seriously.
1:01:27And so you are someone who God says, "I
1:01:30am in covenant with you and I am a
1:01:32covenant keeper." You know, every time I
1:01:34look at this ring on my finger, I
1:01:36remember I'm in covenant with my wife.
1:01:39Every time God looks at you, he sees the
1:01:40blood of Jesus and he remembers he's in
1:01:43covenant with you.
1:01:46And so remember the authority he has
1:01:48given you not because of you but because
1:01:50of Christ in you the hope of glory. You
1:01:54are in Christ. Christ is in you. And
1:01:57nothing and no one that you come against
1:02:00or that comes against you can defeat
1:02:02you.
1:02:04But you need to trust him. You need to
1:02:06surrender to him. You need to understand
1:02:08the strategy and the warfare that he and
1:02:10the weapons of warfare that he has given
1:02:11you. But I I just I want to pray for
1:02:14people's minds right now. I just feel
1:02:15like there's this tormenting spirit that
1:02:18is coming against people and there's
1:02:20this sense of just deep confusion. It
1:02:22just feels like everything is just
1:02:24confled and messy and you're struggling
1:02:26just to you know what God is not the
1:02:28author of confusion but of peace. And so
1:02:31in the name and authority of Jesus
1:02:33Christ
1:02:34whose blood still speaks a better word
1:02:36today. I break off every attack of the
1:02:40enemy over your mind. I break off
1:02:43confusion. I break off intimidation.
1:02:47I break off fear. I break off
1:02:49insecurity. And I speak courage,
1:02:52clarity, conviction, and the authority
1:02:55of God over your life in the name of
1:02:57Jesus. Amen.
1:02:59>> Amen.
1:03:01>> Thank you.
1:03:02>> You're welcome.
1:03:03>> Okay. Can we shift it to start talking
1:03:04about how you learn to discern the voice
1:03:06of God? because there's a lot of people
1:03:09who are discerning the voice of spirits,
1:03:12but they're not the Holy Spirit.
1:03:14>> And I don't sense I can't find a ton of
1:03:17training
1:03:18>> online. All we have is there's this
1:03:20verse in the New Testament, it's like
1:03:21test the spirits and stuff, but my
1:03:23experience with some of these spirits
1:03:25like to look at the spirit of like you
1:03:27talked about Jezebel, Leviathan, like
1:03:29they can quote the scripture better than
1:03:31we can.
1:03:32>> So, how did you learn to discern the
1:03:33voice of God and how can we learn from
1:03:35that? I think the first thing was that
1:03:38from very early on I began to immerse
1:03:40myself in the word of God, the written
1:03:42word. When I I became a Christian, my my
1:03:44brother was dating a girl who was he my
1:03:47family weren't Christians, but he was
1:03:48dating she shouldn't have been dating
1:03:49him. She was a Christian, he wasn't, but
1:03:51she gave me Bible notes. And so every
1:03:54day as a 15year-old, I would lock myself
1:03:56in my room for 30 minutes and just spend
1:03:59time in the word of God. M
1:04:00>> and so I have 36 years of deposit of as
1:04:05a preacher for the last 20 years I spent
1:04:0720 hours a week studying the word for
1:04:10prep. I always have more I have 10 hours
1:04:13of material for every 30 for 45 minute
1:04:16message and so I love the word and so I
1:04:18think that is the the first thing I
1:04:20would say is you immerse yourself in the
1:04:22written word of God because God will
1:04:24never tell you something that's contrary
1:04:25he may tell you something that's not
1:04:27there you know not the Bible will tell
1:04:29you principles about certain it won't
1:04:31tell you who to marry for example it'll
1:04:32tell you the kind of character of the
1:04:34person you should marry [gasps]
1:04:36>> uh but I think once you actually to me
1:04:39it's a bit Like actually we were talking
1:04:41about communion a minute ago. I believe
1:04:42the word of God carries the spirit of
1:04:45God, carries the life of God. You know
1:04:48what I do now? Every morning I've only
1:04:50started doing this recently when I wake
1:04:52up in the morning at say 5 or whatever.
1:04:54I spend the first I just listen to the
1:04:56word. So this morning I just put on
1:04:58Revelation
1:05:0017-22
1:05:02and I just lay there and I just let the
1:05:04word soak over my mind.
1:05:06>> Awesome.
1:05:07>> Because we spend so much time staring at
1:05:08screens. Yeah.
1:05:10>> Where I just feel in this season I just
1:05:12want the word, you know, the washing of
1:05:13the word Paul talks about. I just want
1:05:16the first thing I hear every morning not
1:05:18to be, you know, Instagram or YouTube. I
1:05:21want my mind just and actually even in
1:05:23the the short time I've been doing this,
1:05:25there's a confidence. there's a a a
1:05:27[clears throat] cleansing has come to my
1:05:29mind and I so I just literally will I'll
1:05:32go on to YouTube and I'll say re you
1:05:34know Revelation 17 and I'll just let it
1:05:36play right through the end of Revelation
1:05:38or whatever it doesn't matter what it is
1:05:39cuz it's all and so I've immersed myself
1:05:42in the word of God. That's the first
1:05:43thing. The second thing is you
1:05:46understand the nature and character of
1:05:47God. So one of the things I often say
1:05:49well when people say God told me is does
1:05:52that sound like something Jesus would
1:05:54say?
1:05:56Like, can you picture Jesus the Messiah
1:05:59saying something like that to someone?
1:06:01That harsh, that rude,
1:06:04that judgmental.
1:06:06Is that I'm not saying that sometimes
1:06:08prophetic words aren't direct? And but
1:06:11but Jesus was he was harsh with the
1:06:13religious leaders. Apart from that, he
1:06:15was he spoke truth with grace. And so,
1:06:18does that sound like something Jesus
1:06:19would say? Does it line up with the word
1:06:20of God? Does it sound like something
1:06:21Jesus would say? And then I look at
1:06:23what's the spirit that's coming out of
1:06:27the person who speaks it. The character
1:06:29I mean that's a huge thing you know is
1:06:32it someone that is submitted to Jesus is
1:06:35it someone who has a track record of
1:06:37walking with Jesus not perfectly but
1:06:40pursue
1:06:41it's about pursuit.
1:06:43Is this someone who I have watched walk
1:06:46with Jesus? Is this someone who
1:06:48surrendered to Jesus or have they got
1:06:49their own agenda? Are they building
1:06:51their own kingdom? And so, and then I
1:06:54just go,
1:06:56"Holy Spirit, is this from you? Is this
1:06:59like there's that discernment that I I I
1:07:02believe the spirit's in here." People
1:07:04will disagree with me. Jesus said, "Out
1:07:05of your belly will flow rivers of living
1:07:07water." That's why people say, "I've had
1:07:08a gut feeling."
1:07:10>> I [clears throat] actually believe the
1:07:11spirit's in here. And when I'm unsettled
1:07:14with stuff, this is where I feel it as
1:07:15well. And I'll be like, "Why am I
1:07:17unsettled?" and then 10 minutes later
1:07:18something will happen and it's the
1:07:19spirit trying to speak the Holy Spirit
1:07:21speaking to my spirit telling me
1:07:23something's going to happen and so
1:07:24there's all of that but I I think one of
1:07:28the I think there's a few things I would
1:07:30say one of the biggest
1:07:33shifts for me was understanding that God
1:07:37God speaking to me will sound very much
1:07:39like my thoughts but it's a thought I
1:07:41wouldn't normally have had now every
1:07:42thought is from God let me preface that
1:07:44okay
1:07:45>> but I always when I used to hear about
1:07:47people prophesying and hearing God. I
1:07:49always had this picture of this external
1:07:51voice.
1:07:52>> Mhm.
1:07:52>> That God was speaking from out there.
1:07:54That's an Old Testament reality. In the
1:07:57Old Testament, God, let me use this cup
1:07:59here. God was external. He was in the
1:08:01temple, Holy of Holies. The high priest
1:08:03go in once a year. God was out here.
1:08:06Occasionally, the spirit would come on
1:08:08certain people at certain times, Samson,
1:08:11Gideon, people like that for particular
1:08:13tasks.
1:08:14>> Mhm.
1:08:15>> So that was the Old Testament. But
1:08:17ultimately, God was external because of
1:08:18sin. Holiness and unholiness couldn't
1:08:20dwell together. Then Christ comes, dies
1:08:23on the cross, sheds his blood, rises
1:08:25again.
1:08:26Those who receive him are righteous
1:08:28before God. That changes everything.
1:08:31Where does God live now? He's no longer
1:08:33out here.
1:08:37He's in here. And so when God speaks,
1:08:40he's going to speak from in here most
1:08:42often. Now, sometimes I don't think I've
1:08:45ever heard the audible voice of God. I
1:08:46mean, I think I'd probably know if I
1:08:47had, so I probably haven't. Um,
1:08:50>> it would have freaked you out.
1:08:50>> It Yeah, you would know. I, you know,
1:08:53but when God's spirit speaks in here, he
1:08:56will commune with your spirit.
1:08:58>> Mhm.
1:08:59>> And then your mind will emotions.
1:09:02>> I just that's the way I see it.
1:09:03>> And so, very often I will just I go,
1:09:05we've all had this. I mean, even
1:09:08everyone's had this at some point, even
1:09:09non-believers, where you've thought
1:09:10about somebody you haven't seen in a
1:09:11year, and you why am I thinking about
1:09:13them? And you send them a message just
1:09:15thinking about you there. Are you okay?
1:09:16And they say, you have no idea.
1:09:18Literally, this has just been the worst
1:09:19day. This has happened. I've just found
1:09:20out my dad's got cancer. I've just, you
1:09:21know, this is just and how did you know?
1:09:24>> Yeah.
1:09:24>> The spirit inside you knows. And so I've
1:09:27learned more and more to trust those
1:09:30thoughts and under submission and to the
1:09:33Holy Spirit obviously, but I've learned
1:09:34more and more to pay attention to those
1:09:36things. So one day I was driving past a
1:09:39house and it was a house where I knew
1:09:41the family. They had done a funeral for
1:09:43a family member years before and they
1:09:45weren't didn't go to our church but the
1:09:47[laughter] I was this is 5 to 1 at
1:09:49lunchtime. I'm meeting somebody at 1:00.
1:09:51Holy Spirit I hear I just have this
1:09:52thought you need to stop there. I'm
1:09:54like, I don't want to. I have to meet
1:09:56Joy for lunch, you know, one of the
1:09:57staff members in our church. So, I drive
1:09:59on completely, you know, and then you
1:10:01just get this wait, you know, you need
1:10:03to stop there. I'm like, God. And so,
1:10:05eventually I'm like, okay. I text Joy,
1:10:07I'm going to be 5 minutes late. I turn
1:10:09back. This is in you call it the
1:10:11projects here. This is not a nice area.
1:10:13I go up to the door.
1:10:14>> I knock the door. The wife opens the
1:10:16door and she just bursts into tears.
1:10:18>> She says, "Why are you here?" I said,
1:10:20"God just told me to stop here." She
1:10:22said, "My husband has just found out
1:10:23he's got cancer."
1:10:25>> I said, "God sent me here today." And I
1:10:27went and I prayed. You know what? That
1:10:28took about I mean, obviously, I called
1:10:29back later on, but I took him 10
1:10:31minutes, but the fact that she knew that
1:10:32God cared about her enough to stop me
1:10:34driving past the house, that that
1:10:36changed everything.
1:10:37>> And so, more and more I've had those
1:10:39just those moments of pen, it's like
1:10:40Moses with a burning bush. He could
1:10:42[snorts] have a a bush burning in the
1:10:44wilderness was not a rare thing, but he
1:10:47stopped and God spoke. He paid attention
1:10:50to the little thing in front of him. And
1:10:52I think it's those little moments of of
1:10:55just a thought coming into your mind.
1:10:56Call Stephen. Call Julie and ask her how
1:10:59she's doing. My wife's great at that. My
1:11:02wife will just constantly just be
1:11:03praying and sending messages to people
1:11:05and sometimes she gets st my wife you
1:11:07know one of the worst things is when you
1:11:09give somebody a word and they give you
1:11:10nothing back and you're like I missed
1:11:12it. Then six months later they go you
1:11:13have no idea how much that spoke to me.
1:11:15You're like why didn't you tell me at
1:11:16the time? But more and more I I mean I
1:11:18go I've I've had words for significant
1:11:20leaders recently and I've just been like
1:11:22Lord I'm just sending these
1:11:25because I know that you're speaking to
1:11:26me and wherever they land they land.
1:11:28That's not you know I you do it with
1:11:30humility and compassion and graciousness
1:11:32but I've come if my wife calls me now I
1:11:35don't have to say who is that right
1:11:38>> after 19 years together. You know,
1:11:40>> I know. And so I've just you learn over
1:11:43time to recognize this is the voice of
1:11:44the Lord or this
1:11:47might be and I need to lean into it a
1:11:49little bit more. But even the purest
1:11:52water if it flows through a dirty pipe
1:11:56is contaminated.
1:12:01So the word God gives you is pure, but
1:12:04you need to also make sure that the
1:12:06vessel that's coming through is as clean
1:12:08as possible.
1:12:10Otherwise, what comes out will resemble
1:12:12the water that went in, but there will
1:12:14be taints to it. So if somebody could
1:12:16give you a word, Taylor, and there's
1:12:19there's parts of it you go, that's
1:12:20absolutely right. But there's also parts
1:12:22of it you go, "There's something not You
1:12:24probably had that happen all the time."
1:12:25>> Yeah. And it wasn't that the word wasn't
1:12:28clean. It was that the vessel that and
1:12:30I'm not this isn't being because none of
1:12:32us you know but that there was people
1:12:34somebody had an agenda they had their
1:12:36own thoughts about what the word should
1:12:38mean [laughter] h they had some feeling
1:12:40towards you that tainted it or whatever
1:12:43that was you know or there's some maybe
1:12:45they have been looking at stuff the
1:12:47night before and that whatever that is
1:12:49but the the word was pure but the vessel
1:12:52it came through was slightly tainted and
1:12:54so it just affects it a little bit or it
1:12:57can affect it a
1:12:58And so
1:13:01it's, you [clears throat] know, it's not
1:13:02that we have to wait until we're living
1:13:04in this blissful perfection, sinless
1:13:07perfection. We just, but as far as we
1:13:10can, we try to live our lives holy.
1:13:12Holiness is a big deal. It's something
1:13:14the Lord's recovering to his church in
1:13:16these days, you know, we we lost that
1:13:18for a long time. If you look at even
1:13:20worship songs in the last 2, three
1:13:21years, they used to all be about me me.
1:13:24I'm going to do this. I called them, you
1:13:25know, love songs to Jesus. You know, God
1:13:27is my girlfriend songs. I hate those. I
1:13:30don't want to I don't God is not my
1:13:32girlfriend. You know, he's not he's not
1:13:33daddy God. That makes me want to throw
1:13:35up. I'm just being really honest. He's
1:13:37holy. He is God, you know. Yes. And we
1:13:41want intimacy with God, but God is not
1:13:43like us, just a little bit bigger. He is
1:13:45God. And I, you know, and the fact that
1:13:48he would invite me into relationship
1:13:50with him and speak to me, that is just
1:13:53beyond comprehension. And so we aren't
1:13:57we we just try to keep ourselves short
1:14:01accounts with God.
1:14:03We stay we say sens we stay sensitive to
1:14:05the spirit and when that stuff comes up
1:14:07in our hearts that bitterness that loss
1:14:09that whatever it is we just go God this
1:14:11is here I don't want to listen you know.
1:14:12So even you know I'm traveling on my own
1:14:14right now here in Nashville in Franklin.
1:14:17I'm in a hotel room on my own. I could
1:14:19do anything.
1:14:20I just have to make sure nothing gets
1:14:22in.
1:14:24I don't want to come in here for this
1:14:26interview with you and know that there's
1:14:28stuff in here that shouldn't be here cuz
1:14:31that will you will feel that and they
1:14:33will feel that.
1:14:34>> Mhm.
1:14:36>> And it might not be much but my goal I
1:14:38I'm up at 3:30 this morning on my knees
1:14:41before the Lord. That's why you came in
1:14:43here and felt the spirit. I believe and
1:14:44this is I'm not, you know, big up on
1:14:46myself,
1:14:46>> but I'm on my knees having communion
1:14:48before the Lord at 3:30 this morning.
1:14:51that shifts something in here.
1:14:53>> Yeah.
1:14:54>> Now, I don't do that every morning. I'm
1:14:57up at 5, but as far as I can because you
1:15:01recognize the calling and the assignment
1:15:03on your life and it is a weighty thing.
1:15:05It's not something I stress about, but I
1:15:07recognize the weight of responsibility
1:15:10with that that I have to as far as I can
1:15:15live a certain type of life that is
1:15:17honoring to him.
1:15:19And as I do that,
1:15:23I you know, I said this, we were
1:15:26recording stuff yesterday for uh
1:15:29>> Yeah.
1:15:30>> I said, I trust God. I want God to trust
1:15:33me.
1:15:35I want God to trust me. I want God to
1:15:38look down and go, you know what? I've
1:15:39got a tough assignment. Craig will do
1:15:41it. Craig's just crazy enough and
1:15:43obedient enough to do that. The eyes of
1:15:45the Lord church to throw throughout the
1:15:46earth. 2 Chronicles 16:9. for those
1:15:49whose hearts are fully devoted to him.
1:15:51God is constantly scanning looking for
1:15:53the heart that will say yes.
1:15:56I remember hearing a story. You have you
1:15:57heard of Reinhardt Bonnke the
1:15:59evangelist.
1:16:00>> Years ago there was he did this campaign
1:16:01in the UK called minus to plus where
1:16:03every home in the UK got a gospel
1:16:05booklet
1:16:07uh evangelistic booklet and he was
1:16:09interviewed at the time and somebody
1:16:11said why do you think God chose you
1:16:13Reinhardt for this? and he did this big
1:16:14German laugh and he said [laughter] he
1:16:17said God didn't choose me first. I was
1:16:20his third choice. The other two said no,
1:16:25but they knew Reinhardt would say yes.
1:16:28The first two said no. And I want to be
1:16:30someone where God goes, you know what?
1:16:32Someone who God goes, you know what, if
1:16:33I ask Craig, he's just crazy enough.
1:16:36And you build up history with God, don't
1:16:38you? A bit like I was talking about my
1:16:39wife's voice. You know, after 36 years,
1:16:42you build up a history with God where
1:16:44you just go, "God, I fear you too much
1:16:47to do this rubbish." Like, I'm still
1:16:49drawn to certain things
1:16:52because my heart is inclined towards sin
1:16:54sometimes, but most often, [gasps]
1:16:58but I I've seen enough of you and I've
1:17:01been walking with you long enough to go,
1:17:03this is not like there's nothing ever
1:17:05good comes from that. Like, it just
1:17:07leads to misery. It leads to depression.
1:17:09And it leads to insecurity. It leads to
1:17:12ineffectiveness, fruitlessness. I don't
1:17:14want to spend my life trying to undo
1:17:16stuff that I've done.
1:17:17>> That's right.
1:17:18>> You know what I mean?
1:17:19>> Totally do.
1:17:20>> I don't want to walk around constantly
1:17:22feeling the weight of conviction for
1:17:23stupid stuff. You can have there's a fun
1:17:28and freedom of obedience. There's a joy
1:17:31that comes. Jesus talked about that in
1:17:33John 15 that your my your joy may be
1:17:36complete. You know, if you obedient, he
1:17:38was talking about that my joy may be in
1:17:40your joy may be complete. That there's
1:17:42actually a a freedom and a joy.
1:17:44Obedience. It was the old CS Lewis
1:17:46thing. Anyone who thinks holiness is is
1:17:49it boring or whatever has never
1:17:51experienced true holiness cuz holiness
1:17:54is stunning when you see it. When you're
1:17:56around someone who literally
1:17:59you can feel it with people.
1:18:01>> Mhm. Mh.
1:18:01>> There's certain people that you're in
1:18:03their their presence and you go, I am in
1:18:06the presence of hope. They're not
1:18:07perfect, but they are living life.
1:18:09>> Mhm.
1:18:11>> And then you're around people who are
1:18:13talking the right words, but you just
1:18:14go, "This is an inch deep."
1:18:18>> You know, one of the things I did a post
1:18:19recently about uh influence versus
1:18:22authority.
1:18:23>> Oh boy.
1:18:24>> That there's people who have influence
1:18:26but they have no authority.
1:18:27>> Mhm.
1:18:28>> And you know what? I watch I'm not
1:18:30trying to dishonor these guys. I'm
1:18:31really not. But there was one particular
1:18:32guy who I watched on YouTube or on on
1:18:34Insta and everything he was saying was
1:18:38true and it sounded really good, but it
1:18:41was hollow and it was shallow and you
1:18:45could feel that there was just no weight
1:18:46behind it. And I I actually I don't I'm
1:18:49not judging. I actually just felt that
1:18:50he just hadn't enough history with God
1:18:53to be able to say it. And he was doing
1:18:56his best, you know. And like I said,
1:18:58every single word I could say amen to.
1:19:00Yeah,
1:19:01>> but there was just a hollowess and an
1:19:02emptiness. And that's the the social
1:19:04media world allows people to build huge
1:19:06platforms
1:19:08without the substance and the weight
1:19:10behind it. That's not you, by the way.
1:19:14That's not you. You have you've walked
1:19:16through it. You have history with God.
1:19:17And you don't try to be somebody you're
1:19:19not. That's one of the things I I
1:19:20wouldn't be here otherwise. I flew how
1:19:23many thousand miles across the ocean to
1:19:24be here. I don't do that. But there's a
1:19:26weight and there's an anointing in you.
1:19:28and you know your imperfections, but you
1:19:30have resolved to live with integrity and
1:19:33honesty and vulnerability before the
1:19:35Lord.
1:19:36And that's what comes across. That's
1:19:39what's growing. It's not that you're
1:19:41saying all the CL because you're not.
1:19:43>> I know. Yeah.
1:19:44>> You're not.
1:19:45>> I'm not.
1:19:45>> You're not. You're honest. I'm not. But
1:19:47it's you. But there is a a depth
1:19:52and a substance and a history with the
1:19:54Lord there that carries across. And
1:19:58that's what people are, you know, the
1:19:59biggest demographic of YouTubers is
1:20:02growing right at the minute, over 50s.
1:20:04>> Wow.
1:20:06>> Because people with the AI stuff, people
1:20:09know that you can just churn out and but
1:20:10people who are over 50 have actually
1:20:12lived experience and so younger people
1:20:14are wanting to hear these guys.
1:20:15>> That's amazing.
1:20:16>> And they're just holding up their phones
1:20:17and recording and they're get, you know,
1:20:18the biggest dem cuz Sean Canel who think
1:20:21media, I heard him say that recently.
1:20:23The biggest demographic of growth is the
1:20:24over 50 year olds.
1:20:25>> Wow. who are going on social media and
1:20:28people are drawn to them right now. Why
1:20:29are people why is why are the this next
1:20:32generation obsessed with the 80s and the
1:20:34you know and and the '9s they see it as
1:20:37a pre-digital age where everything was
1:20:39more solid, more pure, more real. Yeah.
1:20:42Vinyl, you know, all of this all the
1:20:44clothes, all of that stuff, community,
1:20:46real community, non-digital analog.
1:20:50>> They see something that was real. I
1:20:52mean, I lived through that. It wasn't as
1:20:53it was never as good as people think it
1:20:55was. But you [laughter] know, but the
1:20:57reality is people are longing in a
1:20:59superficial shallow world. People are
1:21:01desperate for something of substance.
1:21:05And the last 5 10 years have exposed all
1:21:07the shallowness and superficiality. Not
1:21:09just in the church but in the world
1:21:12where we have held these people up in
1:21:13pedestals. We have said, you know,
1:21:16you're we we have had a certain
1:21:18perception of people and then we have
1:21:20watched the reality
1:21:22as they've been exposed that it was a
1:21:24house of cards.
1:21:26And so this generation is desperate not
1:21:28for coolness, [laughter]
1:21:30but for substance and depth,
1:21:35for people who have actually lived it
1:21:36out, not perfection, but people who are
1:21:38honest enough to say, "I walked through
1:21:40this. This was the pain I struggled.
1:21:43I've battled this and this is where I am
1:21:46now and this is what I you know God
1:21:48spoke to me in the last few years and
1:21:49said you'll always be a son but you need
1:21:51to start being a father not just to your
1:21:54own son
1:21:55>> right
1:21:55>> but I'm going to start sending spiritual
1:21:56sons to you and he's done that literally
1:21:58out of the blue 35-year-old pastors were
1:22:01calling me who are bigger churches than
1:22:03I have saying will you mentor me will
1:22:05you father me and I'm like with some of
1:22:07them yes some of them no depending on
1:22:08what their motivation is
1:22:10>> I was preaching for one of them last
1:22:12He planted a church 3 years ago and it's
1:22:14700 right now. The guy's 32. That
1:22:17doesn't happen in Ireland. But he is his
1:22:20heart is full of just passion for the
1:22:22Lord. Him and his wife are just
1:22:24wonderful. And so we I just want to I
1:22:27want to see those guys just flourish,
1:22:29you know, but that there has there's
1:22:30that shift in mentality of yes, I'll
1:22:32always be a son, but I need to start
1:22:35being a father
1:22:37and I need to start pouring in. And I,
1:22:39you know, even my associate pastor, he's
1:22:41in his 30s. He's taken over from my
1:22:43biggest dream would be I come home from
1:22:45Australia in a year and the church has
1:22:48flourished and thrived under him.
1:22:50>> Yeah.
1:22:50>> I wanted to go so much for that was the
1:22:52reason I left actually. Quite honestly,
1:22:55I saw that he was more gifted to lead it
1:22:57forward than I was.
1:22:58>> Yeah.
1:22:59>> He had more passion for it. He had more
1:23:01zeal. And if I stayed in my role, he
1:23:04couldn't step into it.
1:23:05>> Yeah. And so I had to stand aside and
1:23:08let him step into it.
1:23:09>> Yep. Absolutely. That's I know exactly
1:23:12what you're talking about as um somebody
1:23:15who leads people. My dream now. The I
1:23:18think about this a lot with Jake.
1:23:20>> My his calling is crazy and in some
1:23:25regards I feel like my ceiling might
1:23:27become his floor
1:23:29>> if we can if we can run the distance
1:23:31together. Yeah. Yeah,
1:23:32>> but when you think about your team and
1:23:34sometimes you're like, I do have to get
1:23:35out of the way because I do have a a
1:23:37ceiling on my season, but that's their
1:23:40floor.
1:23:40>> Sometimes you have to leave so that they
1:23:44can
1:23:45>> Yeah.
1:23:45>> flourish.
1:23:46>> And he could never become all he could
1:23:49be until I was out of the way.
1:23:50>> Right.
1:23:51>> Never.
1:23:52>> Right. because everyone was always
1:23:54looking to me and he was always looking
1:23:55to me cuz that's it's a bit like when
1:23:56you're driving if you aren't sure
1:24:00completely where you're going but the
1:24:01person beside you is you'll keep asking
1:24:02for directions but when you're on your
1:24:04own
1:24:04>> Yep.
1:24:05>> you find your way there.
1:24:06>> Yep. Yep. We're not there yet by the
1:24:08way. Well, you got some time. Oh, I
1:24:10know. I'm well aware. Don't message me
1:24:12next week.
1:24:13>> But you are so multifaceted.
1:24:15>> Yes.
1:24:16>> You are not a onetrick pony.
1:24:18>> Nope.
1:24:21And people will try to confine you into
1:24:22a lane and a particular you know this is
1:24:25your thing
1:24:26>> and that will be so frust you you are
1:24:30not an either or you are a both hand.
1:24:32>> Yeah. Taylor knows that. Mhm. Yeah.
1:24:36>> And just in different seasons different
1:24:38aspects of that calling will be
1:24:40expressed in different ways.
1:24:43But never allow people to tell you who
1:24:45you are
1:24:47because you are so much more than
1:24:48anything they will tell you.
1:24:52You know 10 and I think for many of us
1:24:54actually we limit our calling to
1:24:57something that's way too narrow.
1:24:59Everybody's trying to find their calling
1:25:01as if it's this one thing that magically
1:25:03you don't find your calling you grow
1:25:05into your calling and it evolves over
1:25:07your lifetime. Your calling is you.
1:25:09>> You are your calling.
1:25:11It's in your DNA. You can't be anything
1:25:14but your calling. Unless you're trying
1:25:16too hard to be something else. Yeah.
1:25:18>> That's one of the things I've realized
1:25:19more. I am not trying to be a prophetic
1:25:22voice or a pastor or a leader. I am just
1:25:26being me,
1:25:28>> Greg.
1:25:28>> And all of that will come out as I am
1:25:31me.
1:25:32>> The hound,
1:25:33>> the hound, [laughter]
1:25:34the dog as you call me. But seriously,
1:25:37it's one of the things I keep saying to
1:25:38stop trying to find your calling. You
1:25:40are your calling. When I walk into a
1:25:42room, I expect things to shift. Not
1:25:44because I'm a pastor or a prophetic
1:25:46voice, because I am in the room.
1:25:48>> Yes, that's exactly right.
1:25:51>> What enters the room when I enter, what
1:25:52leaves when I leave.
1:25:53>> Yes.
1:25:54>> When I go to speak in a church, I don't
1:25:55go as a preacher or a pastor. I go as
1:25:58someone who I will deposit something. I
1:25:59will shift something simply because I am
1:26:02there.
1:26:02>> Yep.
1:26:03>> And the favor of God is upon me,
1:26:07not on the place. And so when I go into
1:26:09somewhere, I I I I turn down 90% of
1:26:12invitations
1:26:13because when I go somewhere, I don't
1:26:15want to go just as a guest speaker. You
1:26:16can get a thousand of those. You're
1:26:18probably better than me. I want to go
1:26:20somewhere that they know what I'm
1:26:22carrying.
1:26:23And they recognize that because Jesus,
1:26:26even in his hometown, could only do a
1:26:29few miracles because they didn't honor
1:26:30what he was carrying. And so you can go
1:26:33to somewhere and actually leave and they
1:26:35get nothing because they don't
1:26:36recognize. And this that can sound
1:26:38prideful, but over 20 years of ministry
1:26:40and 36 years of following Christ, I've
1:26:42realized I go into places and you know
1:26:44what? I can give the same message there
1:26:45and they get nothing. And I can go to
1:26:47another church and literally it
1:26:48transforms the entire place because of
1:26:51how this the words are the same, but the
1:26:54reception is different because they when
1:26:56you receive as a prophet as a prophet,
1:26:57you get a prophet's reward.
1:26:58>> Mhm.
1:26:59>> When you receive me as just the the guy
1:27:01from Nazareth, the
1:27:02>> was Joseph's father, that's all you're
1:27:04going to get. The I think this should be
1:27:07said is the the the man of God with
1:27:09conviction or the woman of God with the
1:27:10conviction of the Lord will always sound
1:27:12prideful.
1:27:13>> Yeah.
1:27:13>> To the people who do not have their own
1:27:16conviction in God.
1:27:18>> Those are the people who think that
1:27:19you're prideful.
1:27:19>> Yeah. And that's okay.
1:27:21>> That's totally [clears throat] fine.
1:27:22>> And pride our our confidence will almost
1:27:24look like pride and arrogance to those
1:27:26who struggle to understand authority.
1:27:30>> Yeah.
1:27:31When you understand true spiritual
1:27:33authority, I don't look I mean we
1:27:35probably like a lot of the same people.
1:27:36Some of those you know some of the guys
1:27:38in Africa who understand authority.
1:27:41>> Uh Tommy Ari I always get but yeah like
1:27:45he carries authority.
1:27:46>> Fire.
1:27:46>> Fire. Love that guy.
1:27:48>> He can sound really arrogant and
1:27:50prideful to some people. You can
1:27:52>> Yeah.
1:27:52>> But you I I look at you and I go he
1:27:54carries authority.
1:27:55>> I might have a little bit more pride
1:27:56than Tommy.
1:27:57>> I don't know if you
1:27:58>> working it out. But
1:27:59>> I think that's it. I think c certain
1:28:01cultures really struggle because there's
1:28:04this false humility in the church that
1:28:05we all have to shrink down and be I'm a
1:28:07nobody. I'm a worm. You know what that
1:28:08is not? God didn't create you to be a
1:28:11worm. Jesus didn't shed his blood for a
1:28:13worm.
1:28:14And so God wants you not to be prideful,
1:28:17but to understand who you are, who you
1:28:18are, and what authority he has given
1:28:20you, and to walk in that. And to some
1:28:22people that will look like pride and
1:28:23arrogance, but that's okay. That's okay.
1:28:27>> Yep. as long as you know that your heart
1:28:29before the Lord is humble and you're
1:28:31submitted to him.
1:28:33And so
1:28:35I
1:28:37I know that I will be misunderstood.
1:28:40I learned a few years ago not to Google
1:28:42myself
1:28:44cuz some of the stuff that was written
1:28:45about me, I just went, "Goodness me."
1:28:47[clears throat]
1:28:48Like that's who they think I am.
1:28:52Particularly it was all people nearly
1:28:53from my hometown.
1:28:55That's who they think I am. My wife will
1:28:57tell you that's not who she knows who I
1:28:59am.
1:29:00>> Yeah.
1:29:01>> And but when people see you from a
1:29:04distance, they make certain they have a
1:29:07certain perception of you that isn't the
1:29:09reality cuz they they don't see what
1:29:11goes on behind the scenes.
1:29:12>> I was on the phone with somebody that we
1:29:16probably both know this morning and
1:29:18someone was making a video about them.
1:29:20And people love to do this, man. Just if
1:29:22you don't know that this is what people
1:29:24do, there are people on the earth right
1:29:25now who think they're calling us to clip
1:29:27things and we've been
1:29:28>> That's a ministry of the spirit, isn't
1:29:29it?
1:29:29>> Yeah, it's there. Yeah, exactly. It's
1:29:31the ministry of Leviathan is what it is.
1:29:33But uh I was like, how do you deal with
1:29:35that? You know, do you
1:29:36>> I don't
1:29:37>> and and but this person said I looked at
1:29:39it. This was a couple of weeks ago this
1:29:41happened. They said, I looked at it and
1:29:43I said, oh, you have a contract with
1:29:45Leviathan.
1:29:46And then they were like, so I just let
1:29:48them serve their god and I serve mine.
1:29:51And I was like, "What
1:29:53a way to deal with hate."
1:29:54>> Yeah.
1:29:55>> Not correction,
1:29:57but just hate.
1:29:58>> This is a spirit behind it.
1:30:00>> Yeah.
1:30:01>> And I don't, you know, let them deal
1:30:02with that spirit cuz they're the ones
1:30:03who have invited the spirit in.
1:30:05>> Yes.
1:30:05>> So, let them deal with it. I'm not going
1:30:06to fight their spirit.
1:30:08>> Yes. Yeah. Okay. Question. Can we
1:30:12transition for the landing of our time
1:30:14to talk about transitions?
1:30:15>> Whatever you want to talk about.
1:30:16>> Why are transitions so hard?
1:30:18I think transitions are really hard
1:30:21often
1:30:23because of the we know what we don't
1:30:26want. We know where we don't want to be.
1:30:27We know what relationship we don't want.
1:30:29What we don't want to do. I think the
1:30:31struggle is what do we want? What's
1:30:33next?
1:30:35Very often the grace will lift on
1:30:37something. We know we're not meant to be
1:30:38there anymore. The Lord calls us out of
1:30:39it. It's taken more and more effort to
1:30:41get less and less done. All of that is
1:30:42ex you know and so we move out of
1:30:45something and we are full of gusto and
1:30:47enthusiasm and we are like it's so
1:30:48excited you know I've got a new thing
1:30:49coming and then the new thing doesn't
1:30:52come one of the things I often say is
1:30:54people say God doesn't open one door
1:30:55without or close one door without
1:30:57opening another one but they don't talk
1:30:59about the hallway in between and that
1:31:01hallway can be long it can be dark it
1:31:03can be lonely and you have no idea how
1:31:04long you're going to be there and you
1:31:06don't even know what's on the other side
1:31:07and I think that's where the struggle is
1:31:10where you know that God has called you
1:31:11and Well, you've obeyed him. You're
1:31:13doing what he has told you to do
1:31:14eventually. And then you find yourself
1:31:16in this place of disorientation
1:31:19and insecurity
1:31:21and struggling with your identity. And
1:31:24you thought doors would open up and you
1:31:25thought people would be calling you and
1:31:27you thought, you know, you'd have these
1:31:28new relationships and all of this stuff
1:31:30and there's just nothing. And that's
1:31:33what happened to us. We left that church
1:31:36and there was nothing. We took a
1:31:38sabbatical thinking God would open the
1:31:40door while we were away. There was
1:31:42nothing. We were saying, "Lord, what's
1:31:44next?" And the heavens were brass. We
1:31:46had nothing.
1:31:48And and I think that's where everybody
1:31:50struggles, that disorientation stage.
1:31:52And also, you know what? If it's been a
1:31:54difficult ending, you're also dealing
1:31:55with all the wounds, all the
1:31:57>> the grief, the anger, the bitterness,
1:31:59the offense. You're dealing with you're
1:32:01processing all of that stuff in your
1:32:03heart. And so, you have this whole
1:32:04mixture of stuff going on. And in the
1:32:06midst of that, you're we the humans, we
1:32:10are wired to want certainty. We want,
1:32:13you know, that's why they they want kept
1:32:14wanting to go back to Egypt.
1:32:16>> Yeah.
1:32:16>> Every time things got difficult.
1:32:19They would rather have predictable
1:32:21slavery than unpredictable freedom.
1:32:24>> That's why people keep going back into
1:32:26abusive relationships.
1:32:27>> People going back back, they go from one
1:32:29awful job to another awful job because
1:32:31at least they know what it is.
1:32:32>> Mhm. And as humans, there's something
1:32:34within us that's wired for
1:32:37predictability and certainty and
1:32:39comfort. And we want that.
1:32:42And so that's why it's really hard
1:32:44because actually transition pulls us out
1:32:46of that by nature. It it takes us out of
1:32:49comfortability and predictability and
1:32:51the familiar and all the things we know.
1:32:53And it brings us into this middle
1:32:55ground, this wilderness between Egypt
1:32:57and the promised land where everything
1:32:59is barren. And we can begin to
1:33:02romanticize the past. Remember the food
1:33:04we had in Egypt. It was beautiful.
1:33:07They forget about the whips and
1:33:09[laughter] you know, but you begin to
1:33:10see the past. And so I think the longer
1:33:13that the transition goes on and the less
1:33:14it opens up, the harder it becomes and
1:33:16the greater the temptation, one is to go
1:33:18back to what you left behind or two to
1:33:20get angry with God and just say, "God,
1:33:21you know what? You've abandoned me
1:33:22again. I've kept my end of the deal.
1:33:24You're not keeping your end." And that's
1:33:26so that's where we found ourselves. So
1:33:28we we left the church. We went on
1:33:30sbatical. We went to California. We were
1:33:32suffering for Jesus in Southern
1:33:33California for a few months. But at the
1:33:36end of that, we had nothing. We had no
1:33:38home. We had no jobs. Elijah was to
1:33:40start preschool. We had nowhere to go.
1:33:42And we had nothing. And so what we did
1:33:46was we just said, Lord, we're just going
1:33:48to write down what our dreams and
1:33:49desires are for this next season. And
1:33:52this isn't something, Lord, you have to
1:33:53do, but I sometimes the Lord I've felt
1:33:56him just say, "Give me something to work
1:33:57with.
1:33:58>> [laughter]
1:33:59>> Like I would say, God, tell me what you
1:34:00want me to do. And he'll say, "Give me
1:34:02something to work with. Tell me what you
1:34:04want." And so one day, I remember it was
1:34:07probably August 2016. We took out a
1:34:09blank sheet of paper and we just wrote,
1:34:11"Where do we want to live?" And we wrote
1:34:13this little place in the north coast of
1:34:14Ireland that we loved. We looked at
1:34:17schools. Where would we love Elijah to
1:34:18go? We wrote down this school. And then
1:34:20what would be my dream job? And I wrote
1:34:22teaching pastor at a church up there. It
1:34:25was a church where uh it had been in
1:34:27revival about 2,000 people that had
1:34:30impacted our lives but they'd never had
1:34:32a teaching pastor in their 20 year
1:34:33history. So I wrote teach and pastor at
1:34:35this church and we wrote it down. We
1:34:37said we submit and surren this is what I
1:34:39call it's actually one of my stages of
1:34:40transition the the the the desire stage
1:34:43the dreaming stage. Now not all of your
1:34:45desires are from God. Please hear that.
1:34:48H but I think there's times where God
1:34:50says just tell me what you want and
1:34:51submit it to me. surren, you know,
1:34:54delight yourself in the Lord. He will
1:34:55give you the desires of your heart. And
1:34:56so we just said, we poured out all these
1:34:58things and we just said, Lord, we're
1:34:59leaving this with you. And then we went
1:35:00on the internet, found a home that was a
1:35:02summer rental. And I emailed the woman
1:35:04and I said, I know your home's a summer
1:35:06rental. Would you rent it for 6 months
1:35:07to us in this beside the beach? She
1:35:10said, "Oh, well, and I don't even need a
1:35:11down payment, which was good cuz we had
1:35:12no money." We emailed the school and
1:35:15said, "Can our son get into that
1:35:16school?" They said, "Yes, your son can
1:35:17get into that school." And so we went
1:35:19home, we moved into the house, but it
1:35:21was the last week of our sbatical and I
1:35:22had no job. And I had friends who own
1:35:25food companies up there and I was
1:35:26emailing them. I had been a mailman when
1:35:28I was at seminary. I was going to be a
1:35:30postman with whatever. I literally
1:35:33nothing was coming back. The last week
1:35:35of my sabbatical, I'm holding on to the
1:35:37word. You need to keep walking. God will
1:35:39have something for you on the other
1:35:41side.
1:35:42But I'm also stressing because I have
1:35:44bills to pay. Our car is in trouble. You
1:35:45know, our 10-year-old 1 series was
1:35:47broken down. And I I'm like, Lord, I
1:35:50believe. Help my unbelief. You know,
1:35:51that tension. I'm holding on to what
1:35:52you've said, but God, I am not saying
1:35:54this. And I was really stressing. And I
1:35:57turned on my old phone from my old
1:35:58church that I'd had awful summer cuz I
1:36:00didn't want to hear from anybody. And I
1:36:02turned it on and the screen flashed up.
1:36:03And it was a text message from the
1:36:05pastor of this church up here that he
1:36:07had sent the day before saying, "Craig,
1:36:08can we meet for coffee?" We met the next
1:36:11day. And he said, "Are you staying up
1:36:13here for a while?" I said, "We're here
1:36:14for a year." He said, "Do you want to
1:36:16come on staff?" I said, "Doing what?" He
1:36:19said, "Do you want to be teaching
1:36:20pastor?" He said, "I would love to." He
1:36:23said, "But I also want you to write
1:36:24daily devotionals." And this is the
1:36:25whole part I I said, "I don't write." He
1:36:27just said, "You do now."
1:36:28>> That was the one.
1:36:29>> Yeah, that was the one.
1:36:29>> Wow.
1:36:30>> He said, "You do now?" He says, "There's
1:36:32something I see in you that you can
1:36:33write." He said, "What about Becky? What
1:36:36does she want to do?" I said, "She loves
1:36:38working with women." He said, "Get her
1:36:39to write her own job description."
1:36:41He said, "How many hours do you want to
1:36:42work?" I said, "25 a week." He said,
1:36:44"What about Becky?" I said, "15." He
1:36:46said, "40 hours a week, full-time job,
1:36:47full-time salary between the two of
1:36:49you." And I said, "Is there a salary?"
1:36:51Like, because this all seems a bit r,
1:36:53you know, like what about the board?
1:36:55What, you know, and this is what he
1:36:57said. He said, "Four months ago, before
1:37:00you went on sabbatical, we had a board
1:37:02meeting. Before you even left your
1:37:04church, we had a board meeting." And it
1:37:06came to the end of the board meeting and
1:37:07we were about to pray and the Holy
1:37:10Spirit stopped me and said, "I want you
1:37:12to do something." and he said, "I
1:37:13stopped that board meeting and I said to
1:37:15the board, "Guys, this is really weird,
1:37:18but I want us to set aside a full-time
1:37:20salary just in case Craig and Becky
1:37:22Cooney ever moved to this area." I know
1:37:24I always cry at this point. 10 years
1:37:27later, literally, I cannot tell this
1:37:29story without crying. So, he said, "Yes,
1:37:31Craig, there is a salary and it was set
1:37:34aside even before you left your church."
1:37:38And so I was stressing and God
1:37:41[clears throat] had it all covered
1:37:42behind my back.
1:37:44You know, I always joke that God's
1:37:45talking about you behind your back. Even
1:37:48with the story of Moses, I was thinking
1:37:49about that this morning. The Israelites
1:37:51cry out to God. Does God speak to the
1:37:54Israelites? No. He speaks to Moses. As
1:37:57far as they're concerned, God isn't
1:37:59answering their prayer.
1:38:00>> He's speaking to Moses.
1:38:02>> Yep.
1:38:02>> Telling him, "Go and deliver these
1:38:04people." I'm crying out to God 4 months
1:38:07before this. God is speaking to the
1:38:09board of that church telling them to set
1:38:11aside a salary. God had it covered.
1:38:15And we spent a year there and it was the
1:38:17most healing, restorative, beautiful
1:38:19year that we've ever had. And then he
1:38:22brought us to the church we've been in
1:38:23the last 9 10 years. And it's been
1:38:24beautiful.
1:38:26But what got us there was so, so messy.
1:38:29that disorientation,
1:38:31that insecurity, that imposttor
1:38:34syndrome, that loss of identity,
1:38:38dealing with the hurt, the betrayal, the
1:38:40lack of closure was really big for us
1:38:42cuz we had to leave really quickly. We
1:38:44didn't get to say goodbye to people
1:38:45properly.
1:38:47People who I had sat holding their hands
1:38:50at their bedside, had buried their
1:38:51children, I had baptized them, had led
1:38:53them to faith in Christ. We had to just
1:38:55exit. They thought we had abandoned
1:38:56them. And so there was all of that and
1:38:59then it was just so messy.
1:39:01But you know I think transition and the
1:39:03it's interesting the last part of child
1:39:04birth is called transition. It's the
1:39:07most painful part.
1:39:08>> Mhm.
1:39:09>> And I think transition is like that.
1:39:11It's painful but once the baby's born
1:39:13you forget the pain.
1:39:14>> Mhm.
1:39:15>> And you just look at the beautiful thing
1:39:16that's been birthed.
1:39:17>> Mhm.
1:39:18>> And there's people listening to this
1:39:20right now and all they can feel is the
1:39:22pain and it's messy and it is horrible.
1:39:25And we felt betrayed. We felt rejected.
1:39:28We felt dishonored. And all of that mess
1:39:31is real. You know, I I love where
1:39:33Joseph, he says, "You meant it for
1:39:35evil." He doesn't say, "Guys, that's no
1:39:36big deal." They did mean it for evil,
1:39:40but God brought good out of it. And I
1:39:42look back and I go, you know what? That
1:39:43was messy. And people be we that weren't
1:39:45perfect in it,
1:39:49but in all the mess, God birthe
1:39:50something beautiful. And here I am 10
1:39:53years later sitting in Franklin,
1:39:54Tennessee with Taylor Welsh. None of
1:39:58this would be happening if I hadn't
1:40:00walked through that. I don't want to do
1:40:02it again. And you know what? We've just
1:40:04transitioned from our own church, the
1:40:06church we went to after that, after 9
1:40:08years. Can I tell you this transition
1:40:10has been beautiful
1:40:13because of all the lessons we learned
1:40:14back there that we determined we would
1:40:17never let that happen again.
1:40:20And so we said, "No matter what happens
1:40:22this time, we will transition well." And
1:40:25it has been so full of grace and honor
1:40:28and kindness.
1:40:30But it was all because of the mess back
1:40:32there, all the lessons that we learned.
1:40:35And so in that hallway, in that
1:40:36wilderness, whatever it is, it you feel
1:40:40God's abandoned you. You feel like he is
1:40:43he's let you down. He's nothing's
1:40:45opening up. And I have I have been
1:40:47there. I've felt all of that and I don't
1:40:50know what else to say to people except
1:40:52trust his heart when you can't see his
1:40:54hand. Trust his character,
1:40:57>> right?
1:40:58>> You know, when I met my wife, we got
1:41:00engaged after 4 months. But after I
1:41:02mean, we knew in our first date we were
1:41:04going to get married. [laughter]
1:41:06Uh she was dating a friend of mine
1:41:08actually when I first met her and he
1:41:10brought her to hear me preach and uh I
1:41:13was so distracted. Taylor. I'm trying to
1:41:15preach the word and there's about 300
1:41:16people in the room and I see this girl
1:41:18with white jeans and blonde curly hair
1:41:20and I'm like, "Focus, focus, focus." And
1:41:23I and afterwards, I get talking to her.
1:41:25I don't know why I'm telling the story,
1:41:26but it's funny. Anyway, afterwards, I'm
1:41:29talking to her. My friend Nathan comes
1:41:30up to me afterwards. He says, "So, what
1:41:31do you think of Becky?" I said, "Nathan,
1:41:33just so you know, if you two ever break
1:41:35up, I'm moving in there." He laughed. I
1:41:37didn't. They broke up a few weeks later.
1:41:39I consoled him for 13 seconds and then I
1:41:42got on. You don't remember BBO? Bibo was
1:41:45like the kind of the the what the uh
1:41:47what was the pref Facebook thing? Um
1:41:50>> you said MySpace.
1:41:51>> MySpace. It was kind of between MySpace
1:41:53and Facebook.
1:41:54>> And so I babbled her for 2 months. That
1:41:56sounds rude, doesn't it? For 2 months.
1:41:58She has actually she printed them out,
1:41:59which we off a booklet twice a day. We
1:42:02found we were clearing out our house cuz
1:42:03we're moving. We found it the other day
1:42:05in the garage. She printed them all out.
1:42:08All the messages every day for 2 months.
1:42:10We would be back and forth two, three
1:42:11times a day to eventually I got my first
1:42:13date with her.
1:42:15And we went on our first date and the
1:42:17night before she was trying to figure
1:42:20out what to wear and she just said, "I'm
1:42:23going to marry this guy.
1:42:25I was 34 at this time.
1:42:27>> She was 30." I said, "I'm going to marry
1:42:30this." And this just and I remember we
1:42:32went in the first date and she went to
1:42:34the restroom and I just said, "Lord, if
1:42:36you give me this girl, I'll look after
1:42:37her forever."
1:42:39We were looking at rings within weeks
1:42:41and I remember standing with my friends
1:42:42about a month later in a bar in Belfast
1:42:45and I said, "I'm going to marry Becky."
1:42:46And they just went, "You are nuts. You
1:42:48are crazy. You don't know this girl. You
1:42:50haven't seen her in every situation. You
1:42:51have, you know, after a month, how can
1:42:53you say this, Craig?" And I said, "I
1:42:55totally understand. I would say the same
1:42:57to you.
1:42:59But here's the thing. I know her
1:43:00character and I know her heart
1:43:02and the circumstances may change and we
1:43:06may walk through all sorts of stuff but
1:43:07her character will not change. And can I
1:43:10tell you 19 years later that has proven
1:43:12to be true. We got engaged after 4
1:43:14months married 9 months later and it has
1:43:17only proven more and more to be true.
1:43:20And I would say the same about God. I
1:43:22have I don't know everything that's
1:43:24going to happen. We could move to
1:43:26Australia now and it could be a mess.
1:43:27That's okay. we will just come home, you
1:43:29know, like one of the things I often,
1:43:30and this is a bit of I always say,
1:43:31"What's the worst that can happen when
1:43:33I'm trying to make a big decision?" And
1:43:35then can I live with that? If I can, I
1:43:36just go for it.
1:43:37>> Mhm.
1:43:38>> And so, um, I know her heart. I know her
1:43:42character. And it's the same with God. I
1:43:43have no idea what's going to happen
1:43:45tomorrow.
1:43:46I don't, you know, people used to say,
1:43:48"What's your 5year vision?" I don't have
1:43:49a five-day vision right now.
1:43:52I really don't. Like I say, we're moving
1:43:55to Australia in a week. We're getting
1:43:58off a plane in Sydney with five nights
1:43:59booked in a hotel and then we have no I
1:44:03I mean we look at properties in line but
1:44:05we have no idea where we're going to
1:44:06live. I don't need to know because I've
1:44:09watched enough of God's faithfulness
1:44:11over the last 36 years to know that if
1:44:13he has been fa I fought the land to
1:44:14bear.
1:44:16>> Mhm.
1:44:16>> This might be different but it's not
1:44:18that different. M
1:44:19>> the God who has been. You know, the
1:44:20Bible always says, "Forget the former
1:44:22things except except when you're
1:44:24remembering God's faithfulness."
1:44:26>> Right?
1:44:27>> And so, every time I'm facing something
1:44:29new, it may not be the same as that, but
1:44:31it's not that different.
1:44:33>> Yeah.
1:44:33>> And so, as we're stepping into this new
1:44:35transition where everything is unclear,
1:44:37we have no clue. We have no jobs. We've
1:44:39no we have nothing. I just go, God, I
1:44:41know you're going to be faithful cuz I
1:44:43know your character at this point and
1:44:45you are only good and you're only
1:44:48faithful and you're sovereign. God is
1:44:51good. God is sovereign. God is faithful.
1:44:55They are the three things I know.
1:44:57And there are the three things that no
1:44:58matter what I will build my life upon, I
1:45:01have drifted, I have wandered, I have
1:45:02strayed over the years, I have done my
1:45:04own thing. You know what? He has been
1:45:05good. He has been sovereign. He has been
1:45:07faithful.
1:45:09His character never changes.
1:45:12And so I don't need to know everything.
1:45:15I don't need to I I just need to know
1:45:17who he is and to listen to his voice and
1:45:21to obey. Because here's what I have
1:45:23learned. Obedience always brings
1:45:27blessing.
1:45:28Always. It might not look like blessing
1:45:30immediately. [laughter]
1:45:33Sometimes it'll look like a big mess,
1:45:34but when you look back later on, you
1:45:37will see obedience always brings
1:45:40blessing. Even reluctant obedience.
1:45:43I've heard people say reluctant
1:45:44obedience is disobedience. That's
1:45:46rubbish.
1:45:48Partial obedience is disobedience. Saul
1:45:50was partially obedient
1:45:54when he kept the animals alive and the
1:45:55king alive
1:45:56>> and he lost the anointing of God.
1:46:00Luke 5, Jesus says to Simon, "Purse out
1:46:03into deeper water." What does Simon say?
1:46:05We've been fishing all night and we've
1:46:06caught nothing. That's reluctant
1:46:08obedience. But because you say so, I
1:46:13will. And as he obeys reluctantly,
1:46:17there's abundance there.
1:46:19>> It wasn't it wasn't disobedience. It
1:46:21wasn't partial obedience. It was
1:46:22reluctant obedience.
1:46:24>> And sometimes it'll be like, "Lord, this
1:46:25doesn't make sense. I don't want to do
1:46:27this." But because you say so,
1:46:30>> y
1:46:31>> I will do it.
1:46:32>> Yep.
1:46:34>> And it may not always show up with
1:46:36blessing immediately, but you know what?
1:46:37I've learned the other way that
1:46:39disobedience never leads anywhere good.
1:46:43And so I would rather obey and
1:46:45experience some hard, you know, some
1:46:46difficulty for a while than disobey
1:46:48because obedience ultimately ultimately
1:46:51always brings blessing because God
1:46:55God only wants what's good for you. like
1:46:57God God's intentions towards you are
1:47:01only good.
1:47:05When I'm trying to figure out is this
1:47:06God or the devil, I look at John 10:10.
1:47:09I have come to bring you life and life
1:47:11in this abundance. The enemy comes to
1:47:13steal, kill, and destroy. What does this
1:47:15do? Does it bring life, abundant life,
1:47:18or does it steal, kill, and destroy? If
1:47:20it brings life and abundant life, it's
1:47:21from Jesus. If it steals, kills, and
1:47:23destroys, it's from the enemy. It's that
1:47:25simple. People say maybe God gave you
1:47:27that sickness. He did not. It steals. It
1:47:30kills and it destroys. God does not make
1:47:32people sick. I don't believe.
1:47:36And so I think you build up a history
1:47:39with God and you you learn, you know
1:47:42what? I don't know what's going to
1:47:44happen, but I know him
1:47:46and he's never let me down yet.
1:47:49>> And he never will.
1:47:50>> I don't think he will. I don't. You
1:47:52know, it might not turn out the way I
1:47:55thought.
1:47:57It might not be my preferences,
1:48:00but ultimately I've walked through
1:48:02enough over 36 years of following Jesus
1:48:04to know I'll obey him and let him deal
1:48:07with the rest.
1:48:08>> Keith Green. Do you remember Keith
1:48:09Green?
1:48:10>> Of course.
1:48:11>> I loved Keith Green.
1:48:12>> Yes. His book
1:48:13>> No compromise. I read that book about
1:48:15funny his daughter is friends with me on
1:48:16Instagram. She's a wonder. Uh I found it
1:48:20the other day again when I was clear at
1:48:21the garage. I must have read that book
1:48:23so many times when I was a teenager. But
1:48:25he had an old song that said, "Keep
1:48:26doing your best and pray that it's
1:48:28blessed and Jesus takes care of the
1:48:30rest." And that's so simple. Yeah.
1:48:32>> But I that's just it keeps coming to me.
1:48:35Keep doing your best. Pray that it's
1:48:36blessed and let him take care of the
1:48:39rest.
1:48:40>> Yeah. That's a wrap. Let's end it there.
1:48:43Might as well. It's a great place to
1:48:47>> Yeah.
1:48:47>> a wrap on. Thank you, man.
1:48:49>> Thank you.
1:48:49>> Thanks for being here. Is that okay?
1:48:50>> Thanks for your jet lag. Thanks for
1:48:53putting up with us.
1:48:54>> Do you think that'll be helpful for
1:48:56people?
1:48:56>> Oh, well, we're still shooting. Well, we
1:48:57should ask the audience and see if
1:48:59>> Guys, will that be helpful?
1:49:00>> Let us know in the comments if that's
1:49:01helpful or not.
1:49:02>> Yeah. If it's not, don't say. [laughter]
1:49:06>> If it's not, they won't.
1:49:07>> Yeah, cuz that inferiority and security
1:49:09thing is still.
1:49:11We love you guys so much. Thanks for
1:49:13being here. We'll see you next week.
1:49:15>> Are you okay if we keep that part there?
1:49:17>> Of course. Yeah.

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