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The Cycle of Violent Relationships | Erin Pizzey | Outtakes from "The Red Pill" — Transcript

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0:05[Music]
0:14so you said you found out that 64% of
0:18the women in your 62 of the women out of
0:20100 or as violent yeah how did you find
0:23that well we did three generational
0:25questionnaires together and what kind of
0:29abuse were they most different but the
0:32ones that actually were viola themselves
0:33you could see were mostly from
0:35violence-prone families because it is
0:37generational that's what I was trying to
0:39say look have a look at this because the
0:42idea was in the feminist ideology and
0:45also what they talked about was all
0:47these innocent no hapless women coming
0:50in with children with these brutal
0:52violent men behind them no it's not like
0:54that anymore than it is for men I mean
0:57there are men who are extraordinarily
0:58violent coming from violent backgrounds
1:01but there's plenty of men who by
1:02accident
1:03get involved with violent women and that
1:06ended up suffering exactly the same way
1:09so were you finding more women that were
1:12violent towards their male partner or
1:14towards their children the figures for
1:17women being bad towards their children
1:18is much higher and you can't just simply
1:21say oh well it's because women are
1:23actually left to learn the children far
1:24more than men that's true but the fact
1:26is neither a man and a majority of with
1:29the very serious violence that people do
1:32have personality disorders one sort or
1:34another you can't leave them alone with
1:36very vulnerable small children they
1:37can't cope it's cruel and we fortunately
1:41because of the programs we ran theater
1:44mother coming in who was dangerous to
1:46her children
1:47I would then be able to put her in one
1:49of our houses where the older mothers
1:51would mother her and take care of her
1:53and her children that's what was needed
1:55not keep taking the children away where
1:58they keep getting replaced because
2:00you're only doubling and troubling the
2:02problem but nobody would listen
2:06processing everything
2:10I think there's a tendency in this
2:12debate between women's issues and men's
2:15issues to take whatever statistic is
2:19against a certain gender and you if you
2:22are that gender you feel attacked if
2:24you're the opposite gender you're saying
2:26see that's what I keep saying talk to
2:31both sides is can we stop that what you
2:34did to me and what I did to you because
2:35that's not what it's about it never has
2:37been about actually it's actually what
2:40happened to you how you grew up what
2:43happened to you what you're doing now
2:44how you're trying to make relationships
2:46or failing to make relationships whether
2:49you're a man or a woman that isn't the
2:52issue and we're wasting so much time on
2:54this wall anytime you talk to
2:59impassioned men who have been burnt
3:01horribly by what's happened to them you
3:04can say the same to a woman who's been
3:05horribly burned what's happened to that
3:07isn't the answer the time was got and
3:09actually I'm very glad we have a thing
3:11called Wow which women of the world
3:13every year it's always done on when
3:15Women's Day International Women's Day
3:17March the 8th and it was so wonderful
3:20for me because sitting there talking to
3:23and the room was absolutely packed was
3:25about as big as this with women all
3:27against the walls and men and I remember
3:30saying at the end thinking how is this
3:32gonna die just said if men and women
3:34won't come together to work on this
3:37subject of domestic violence then there
3:39really is no future and all the women in
3:43the room there's only one woman but
3:45everybody else said we agree and they
3:48were all feminists so I think I hope I
3:51have is that there is a new much younger
3:55feminists not carrying the burdens of
3:57the very early feminists who now have a
3:59great deal of freedom to make the
4:01decisions they want to make and I'm
4:03hoping that they will bring that to the
4:05table and work with men because I've
4:07always said that it's a great need and
4:10there will always be a need for women's
4:12movement because the fact is that women
4:17when they're having children in their
4:19lives are vulnerable and there's we have
4:21to meet
4:22men's needs and what women need and we
4:25will need to always make sure that the
4:29balance is equal and for me it wasn't
4:32that I ever
4:33I left a movement that I passionately
4:35believed in and it was a vision that I
4:38had and I just feel it's been terribly
4:41betrayed in some ways it you know I've
4:48been interviewing emerets since July and
4:51still have a long road to go but but it
4:54it seems like every person I interview
4:56in the men's rights movement has a
4:57different take on the issues Warren
5:00Farrell seems very balanced in his views
5:03on women's issues and men's issues and
5:05wants to see a gender transition where
5:07we're letting men stay home and we're
5:09encouraging women to be a part of the
5:11workforce and run for president and then
5:15you have some other men like Harry
5:17Crouch who seems a little he's angry and
5:19he'll admit it and it comes off you know
5:25that times I felt like I was being
5:27attacked just for being a woman in the
5:29room as he talked about issues that men
5:31were coming in with and talked about you
5:33see one of the things I think was very
5:34difficult with the men is so many times
5:37you're talking to the walking wounded
5:38because they haven't healed themselves
5:40and you have that also you know in women
5:43have come from extremely burning
5:45backgrounds and until they actually have
5:49dealt with what's happened to them and
5:51being able to make some peace within
5:53themselves they do more harm than good
5:55because they're talking is this women's
5:58thing they always said the personal is
6:00political will actually no it isn't fact
6:03my father and mother were dysfunctional
6:04doesn't make all men and women
6:06dysfunctional and I feel that's my
6:08message to the men as well the fact at
6:11the end of the day it was your choice
6:13was my choice the marriages I made they
6:16didn't work out whatever the reason is
6:18I'm responsible for my choice and the
6:21same for men so I wouldn't want and I
6:25tend to work with men who to a certain
6:27extent have reached a position where
6:31like Warren they can be be able to
6:34median
6:34their personal needs and the needs to
6:37make a movement that is going to bring
6:40harmony hopefully eventually to all of
6:42us but yeah I just had a Epiphany with
6:48you saying that that you know the
6:50feminists that are men hating are really
6:53hurting yeah and vice versa
6:55absolutely walking wounded and some of
6:58them were wounded from and before they
7:01were born I think we would only begin to
7:04take time to understand what actually
7:07happens to a child when they're exposed
7:10to this sort of thing I think the one
7:12thing that when Kathy was standing in
7:15front of me
7:16it wasn't the bruises that made me aware
7:20but there was that moment when she said
7:22and no one will help me and I remember
7:26being 17 with my sister and my brother
7:29was 14 my mother had died of cancer my
7:32father bought the body home put it in
7:34the dining room on the table and for six
7:37days he wouldn't bury her so she rotted
7:40and every night he had asked us to come
7:42in and he'd pull the cover off her there
7:45was no think often and we'd see her and
7:47I asked everybody not the doctor odd
7:51family doctor miss Williams who brought
7:53us up in the holiday house to come and
7:55help us they came but none of them
7:58helped us and that was why the earth
8:02which mover was born because Cathy said
8:05and no one will help me and she was
8:08right no one would the doctor gave her
8:10tranquilizers to cope with the beatings
8:13psychiatrist gave her even more pills
8:15so she was addicted to pills everybody
8:17around her let it go on and my life's
8:22work is that we do have to listen we do
8:25have to hear and we do have to recognize
8:28but it's too late often by the
8:31you're talking to somebody who's in
8:32their 40s 50 60 s it's this next
8:35generation of children who are now being
8:37born that we should be working with so
8:43do you think this is just is this some
8:46women's issues she was battered I know I
8:48was helping her or is it men's issues
8:50that they're being ignored and they're
8:52being called whiners and suck it up or
8:55is it just a humanity lacking compassion
8:57it's a human issue and there are no
9:00votes one of the greatest fears for any
9:04man standing up in your Senate is that
9:08he will lose women's votes and who does
9:11the voting women dickly politically
9:14active women it's the same in England
9:19yeah and the the idea that anybody we
9:23have no no - nope members of parliament
9:26who stand up for men's rights in our
9:28country I don't think you have any yeah
9:31well that says it all doesn't it men run
9:37Congress meant that we have a male
9:39president
9:41you know the highest but then maybe you
9:43also have to say his men have no history
9:45of helping each other in emotional
9:47issues they don't there's actually no
9:52mystery what aren't there feminists
9:55trying to feminize men to be more
10:00emotional and share their feelings no
10:02most feminists don't want men in their
10:04lives actually that's that's the trouble
10:08there that this war that's been declared
10:11is actually being declared on men and
10:13instead of putting out a hand and saying
10:17hey let's look at this together it has
10:18been such a brutal war and men have lost
10:21so much because of it that at the moment
10:25there as far as I can see this is going
10:27to go on until such time as I don't see
10:32what's going to actually if nothing is
10:34done the whole fabric of our social
10:38conditions in in countries like ours are
10:41just falling apart so we need a lesson
10:44to men so shoes we need to listen to
10:47human issues which is the family the
10:50idea that the family should be destroyed
10:52and it has been very destroyed means
10:55that you actually take away the most
10:57valuable to human beings who love each
11:01other
11:01commit themselves to each other and
11:03choose to have children or not have
11:05children that's what we should be
11:07celebrating and we don't we tell men
11:12that they should remove themselves that
11:15women will have the children women will
11:17look after the children and that men are
11:19irrelevant we view were punitive towards
11:23them in schools schools on the whole
11:26boys failing we know that men are
11:29failing on campuses and nothing's being
11:32done about it
11:34there are male feminists that are
11:38trying to bring equality to men does
11:41that work
11:42I don't see why I don't see what all men
11:45can't be feminists because they agree
11:48but one of the problems with the male
11:49Fender feminists with the whole attitude
11:51towards men is somehow men have to be
11:53punished until they're good there's
11:56something by being male what if they
11:58said in there you look at the pickets
11:59then one needs to pick it meet or just
12:01to say all men are bastards all men are
12:03rapists that is behind all the anger
12:07that is what's being said about men and
12:09it's not true I can't believe anyone who
12:12would believe that though I mean lots of
12:15lots and lots and lots of radical
12:18feminists absolutely do believe it no
12:20you don't hear about them no you don't
12:22because their conference is a secret I'm
12:24certainly not allowed into them but
12:26there's plenty of them there's plenty of
12:28them in the UN it's actually quite
12:31comforting I went to open the first top
12:34open the first refuge in the Arab world
12:36in Bahrain and it hadn't been feminized
12:40at all and it was such a relief to be
12:42able to talk to a huge packed room of
12:47big room with women and some men talking
12:50about issues they'd never been able to
12:51talk about publicly abortion
12:53contraception which wasn't allowed there
12:55and there was no other was no nobody
12:58actually trying to make a war and one of
13:02the things that I said to the refuge
13:03where they asked me to come out was I'm
13:05very happy to come out but I do want you
13:07to promise me that you will also listen
13:10to men not just women and they did and
13:15that was that was wonderful
13:19why do you think so few women are on
13:23board with the men's movement first of
13:29all I think most women aren't on board
13:31even with feminism I mean we have this
13:33kind of idea because we work in the
13:35circles we work that everybody's like us
13:37they're not the average women on the
13:39streets if you said to them are you a
13:41feminist they probably love the average
13:45people don't get involved with any of
13:46this I think well certainly boys for men
13:50has women working with them and they're
13:53very responsible towards their women and
13:56I think more women will actually and are
13:58beginning to see that the scales have to
14:02have tilted so disastrously that they
14:05actually do want to be involved I know a
14:07lot of women I get contacted by an awful
14:09lot of women who have sons who involved
14:11themselves with very violent partners
14:14and they they can't see their
14:15grandchildren particularly that's one of
14:17the great sorrows with a pretty
14:18grandparent but in a way I think that
14:24what a lot of women are quite frightened
14:26of the idea of getting involved with
14:28men's m-ras because they assume m-ras
14:31are going to be against them and that's
14:33not true actually
14:34I have a much better relationship with
14:38mrs and ever if I do try to talk to
14:40radical feminists because they hate me
14:43with a passion where it's m-ras might
14:45completely disagree with me but there
14:47isn't that fanatical hatred and actually
14:51you have to remember that behind so many
14:53of those that began the women's movement
14:54they were harmed by their fathers they
14:58did have fathers who betrayed and they
15:01did make personal political but that
15:06isn't the answer but so do MRIs oh yes
15:10they do I don't think is the answer for
15:12either side that's my argument with both
15:14sides you are wasting your time and this
15:17is in many ways I find it very
15:19self-indulgent everybody working
15:21themselves up into grace and having
15:23whatever all of it because
15:25issue isn't that the issue is its
15:28generational while you're busy playing
15:31gender Wars for one reason or another
15:33there are children being born who have
15:35no choice are you familiar with Dina's
15:42maze he put together a document with the
15:46top emery issues and initiatives that
15:48they want to put forth and one of the
15:50issues was talking about male
15:53reproductive rights and here's a
15:55virtually have none yes that's the right
15:57to have sex and wear a condom if you
15:59choose but they wanted to put forth a a
16:05bill that would require fathers to sign
16:10a consent form upon the child being born
16:13and if they consent it to fatherhood
16:16they could sign that their name that
16:18they consent to the responsibility of
16:20taking care of that child or they can
16:22write off the responsibility and say I'm
16:24not responsible for this child I did not
16:26I do not choose to father this child's
16:29they're relieved him any child support
16:30and they're out of work sure it's like
16:37so many of these intellectual ideas
16:39completely it's not gonna work
16:41when is he supposed to sign this upon
16:44the baby being born what about before
16:46the baby was born well I guess the idea
16:49is no I don't it if I know Dean very
16:53well we talked a lot he said that to me
16:54and I would have said why don't you
16:57concentrate on making sure that we do
17:01get male contraception I think it is
17:03extremely hard on that and I've seen it
17:06happen quite a lot of times and it's
17:08it's very common for women to decide to
17:11have a child choose a man and then one
17:13way or another they will have the child
17:14and he doesn't get a say in the matter
17:17yes their belief or if if if men had
17:20control over their own contraception
17:25then it would be great to more equal I
17:28think most women would agree give them
17:31contraceptives it
17:32Leoni yep whoa both of you
17:35you know what don't be fear and both be
17:38safe yes absolutely for that I just I
17:44just think all this legislating about
17:46human relationships you know it's a
17:48shocking waste of time because we humans
17:50aren't rational about our sexuality or
17:53about what we do in relationships we
17:55really aren't so let's be real the one
17:58thing I would suggest is that we take
18:00where there is domestic violence in in
18:03relationships we take those cases out of
18:07the courts because of it the law is a
18:11very heavy instrument and human
18:14relationships are very fragile they need
18:16to be taken out and dealt with by people
18:18who actually know what needs to be done
18:21what we did in the refuge is we got an
18:24imp
18:25I never happened before we got the Law
18:28Society to give us a waiver so the
18:31lawyers could come to our refuge and see
18:33the mothers and children together and
18:35get a personal relationship with them
18:38and then mostly we would mediate even
18:41with the very violent men to a position
18:43where either side worked oh it didn't
18:45always work I mean there were times we
18:47just had to say no this is not going to
18:48happen he's too violent but it would and
18:52then we only use the courts to sign the
18:54final documents see I just think his
18:57whole the drama into the relationship
18:59when it's it's it's very volatile anyway
19:02put it in a court situation where it's
19:05antagonistic it's not it's it's only
19:08going to make it a great deal of us and
19:10very very dangerous every time people
19:12would say oh now we've fought hard and
19:14now we can we could have these out stirs
19:16and we can do this to man we can do that
19:18to the map and I'd look at them thinking
19:20do you know what a very violent man the
19:24piece of paper means nothing - the more
19:27you do this the more danger she's in
19:29because if a man is extremely de or a
19:32woman and particularly if they're
19:34morbidly jealous then the only safety
19:36she has is miles away from where he is
19:39so he cannot track
19:43that question for you when talking to
19:47the emerets they make it seem like a
19:51women can simply lie on the court say he
19:55abused you say he raped you molest of
19:58your kids and he's put away and and
20:01women have all the power in courts they
20:04do in the whole because you have to
20:05remember that the courts have been
20:07feminized favorite all of all and but in
20:10the Western world all the education on
20:12domestic months has been done by the
20:15feminist movement women's AIDS in
20:17England it's the women's aid Federation
20:18they're all their packages and all their
20:21packages are actually anti men men are
20:23the perpetrators so in a sense it's been
20:27a great deal of brainwashing that's gone
20:29on and yes women can get away with with
20:32murder literally and and it's unjust and
20:37it's unfair and that's why we need to
20:43actually take that down tick tock the
20:47antagonism between men and women because
20:49of all these situations because this is
20:52false situation you take it back to
20:56generational violence and you treat it
20:58there you treated within maternity house
21:02hospitals you treated in schools you
21:04treat it very very early on and then we
21:07won't end up like this but this partly
21:14to you no majority of men don't want
21:16women to step off the pedestal and you
21:20know there is this very big part of men
21:23that don't want to believe that women
21:25can be evil and violent and dangerous
21:29and the other thing I find with the
21:32people that I work with is that a man
21:34wouldn't freely admit his father does
21:36but he finds it very hard
21:38anything about his mother
21:48I have a hard time thinking of women
21:50being violent and evil in conniving
21:52should have met my mother but then she's
21:55only a product of her background that's
21:57why I don't see people as evil but I
22:00just see them as as you know that
22:02there's a wonderful line if I can get it
22:04right I'll paraphrase it said it's a
22:06poet called Auden he's one of our
22:08English poets one of the best perks ever
22:10and he says it's virtually it's or
22:11something like every schoolboy knows
22:13that evil that is done I will do evil in
22:16return and in a sense that is right that
22:19is what happens what I'm interested in
22:22transcending what is it about say for
22:26children and her family that makes it
22:29possible for her but for the girl who
22:31came to visit me yesterday she really
22:34transcended her extremely violent
22:36background and she's made a huge success
22:39of her life what is it about her as
22:42opposed to other brothers and sisters we
22:45never look at that we never even talk
22:46about it because we don't talk about
22:48generational violence we just talk about
22:50women fighting men and men battering
22:53women and we don't really talk very much
22:56at all about children doing no in this
22:57just ignore them yeah they are the
23:01victims who's teaching these I mean well
23:05you say it's learned behavior being
23:07violent is learned behavior it's done to
23:09you not even that I mean with the
23:12plasticity of the brain of small
23:14children because nobody really banked on
23:17that for a long time they thought bring
23:18a child was born all wired up and they
23:21didn't realize that actually it's
23:23virtually you have your genetic you hold
23:25your genetic package and what you what
23:28you have in your hand there after
23:30experience is the architect of the brain
23:33and that's a very important concept
23:36everything that child has it's like a
23:40sponge so all the violence the screaming
23:43the anger the the alcohol and the abuse
23:46that goes on in the youngest I think of
23:50any child I saw or I knew about that was
23:53sexually abused was a little girl she
23:56was three months old and her mother
23:58and he loves to kiss her peepee I
24:00remember looking at her and saying you
24:03know that's wrong and in that case all
24:07that family was not only violent but it
24:09was also sexually abusive and the mother
24:15was just as spineless as the father in
24:17that case and it was being able for her
24:19to come into the refuge sometimes for
24:21six months at a time that was the time
24:23we had known we could work with the
24:25children and most of what we did and all
24:29the funding that I ever had was went
24:31towards the children because that was my
24:34greatest hope of change this is what
24:37saved me is a child yeah why did you
24:42turn out the way you are and not become
24:44violence from being I was very much as a
24:47child I wrote a book called infernal
24:49child I was very dangerous as well and
24:51it was when I went my parents were sent
24:55back to China and they were I live in a
24:57foreign office and they were under that
24:59they were captured by the Communist and
25:00Miss Williams was the woman who ran the
25:02children's home and there was this woman
25:05she was six foot seven if you can
25:06imagine she was a giant and she I looked
25:10at her and I thought I want to be like
25:12you she actually she drove ambulances in
25:16the war and she was a golf challenge of
25:18champion and she was also a magistrate
25:22and she was amazing
25:24I was the own she was the only person
25:25that could make me behaviors I wanted a
25:28good opinion of me and that's why I
25:30filled the refuge full of mentors
25:33particularly men and even now so many of
25:38the children they recite the names of
25:40the men that they know anew for the
25:42refuge you had more men mentors than
25:45women mentors nobody could not any
25:47pulley yeah yeah that just went it fly
25:51today huh
25:52it was no men are allowed at refuges we
25:55do have this stigma that men could
25:58be pedophiles except if you do work I do
26:03I've had dealt with as many women
26:05pedophiles it's just that they're not
26:07suspected like men so hard to wrap my
26:14brain around this no because if you just
26:16think you have to just change the way
26:18you think if a little girl is sexually
26:20abused chances are she will move on and
26:23sexually abused pedophiles tend to
26:26actually act out the times when they
26:29were molested his children virtually all
26:31pedophiles have been sexually abused as
26:33children and I did a lot of work to
26:36clean Santa Fe because that was very
26:38lawless when I was down there in the 80s
26:40and there are only two DA's and there
26:43were a lot of pedophiles came down there
26:45because they could get away with it I
26:47remember talking to one pedophile he
26:49said well I don't really care what you
26:50do because I'm gonna move out to Alaska
26:53and that's what he do he fuzhi was in
26:55the government he just move his whole
26:57operation out there yeah there is
27:00nothing that men can do that women don't
27:03do there isn't actually even rain how
27:09does that work well erections are a
27:15physiological reaction to stimulation so
27:18a woman can stimulate a man and rape him
27:21just as even if against his will
27:24it can happen does happen but actually
27:29one of the problems with a whole rape
27:31issue is it now it's become a really
27:34there's a kind of myth that we all live
27:37in this this this rape society we don't
27:40the actual rape which happens between
27:44between people happens and it certainly
27:48happens but it's now been watered down
27:50to where it's become rather like in the
27:52definition for domestic violence the
27:54definition for domestic violence is so
27:56wide now that raising your voice
27:58shouting at your partner is domestic
28:01violence and I've always said most
28:04couples should be in jail because
28:06throwing things I'd throw a cup of
28:08coffee in my time
28:10you know I mean it's ridiculous and the
28:12thing with rape they should I think and
28:14you get screamed after saying this there
28:16is rape well somebody a man if you like
28:19with the evil intent violates a woman
28:23and harm so we're just even by raping
28:25her he's harming her but then when we
28:27get to people who know each other
28:30the a man and a woman who are in bed
28:32together and she suddenly announces that
28:34he's guilty of raping her this this is a
28:36whole different argument and the two
28:39things don't weigh equally and I think
28:42we need to separate it because at the
28:43moment it's a mess and it's getting
28:46everybody nowhere it's very confusing
28:49what the different definition of rape or
28:52sexual assault is well really you can't
28:55define it because it it's again it's
28:57this thing of he says she says but if if
29:01in a sense again it's no evidence isn't
29:04it if she says I mean there was a case
29:06which in fact their voice four men were
29:09involved with III he was on my show last
29:12week and he finally after Pauling
29:15childhood made it to Harvard and this is
29:20a public so I'm not talking out of turn
29:22he made it to Harvard and he dated a
29:24girl he took her out and he was kissing
29:26her they went back and he went back to
29:29his place and she went back to her as
29:31the next thing you know she's claimed
29:32rape there's no evidence there's no
29:35semen there's nothing he just says she
29:37just said he was kissing her and then he
29:39got his he masturbated and that's he was
29:45then thrown out of Harvard this is what
29:47this arguments about he's trying to get
29:49a trial by jury because he believes and
29:51I believe with him that if there was a
29:53trial by jury he'd be found not guilty
29:55but he's ruined but they were kissing
29:59and then he masturbated and she didn't
30:01even say that all I know is that the
30:03evidences that he said she he ejaculated
30:07he masturbated whether he was moving
30:10against her when he was kissing her or
30:11whatever I don't know the details but
30:13that's what what
30:15that is now yesterday I think it was
30:18there was a demonstration in Idaho in
30:20the courts two trees trying to get a
30:23trial by jury I do think that additive
30:27very simple level it should be equal so
30:31when there is an allegation of rape the
30:34so called rapist has a right to legal
30:37representation
30:38just as the victim knows well so there's
30:42a new saying and the young feminist
30:44community online saying consent having
30:50sex with consent means saying a
30:53resounding yes an enthusiastic yes
30:58because because actually that's what you
31:01hope sexual intercourse between men and
31:02women is isn't it
31:04a resounding yes let's do this but
31:07people don't I know of course they don't
31:09and and so often over the last case that
31:13I was interested in the woman who came
31:14to see me and she explained she'd been
31:16at a party as married man was making
31:18tracing her around he kissed her outside
31:22she went outside he came outside he
31:24tried to kiss her she pushed him off she
31:27came inside she went upstairs to the
31:29bathroom where she said he came up and
31:31knocked on the door she told him to go
31:33away then she decides rather than go
31:38home because her car's outside of the
31:39house that she'll stay the night so she
31:43decides to stay the night she's given a
31:45sleeping bag and she goes into the study
31:47in the house and then halfway through
31:49the night he comes in and sits down
31:53beside the sleeping bag he then says she
31:57raped him he raped her for two years she
32:01said nothing and all of a sudden she's
32:04now decided to do him for rape so she
32:07goes to the police and the police ring
32:09him up he's with his family in Hong Kong
32:11he's he's always had an extremely good
32:13job even when they're angry and he says
32:15to the police well yes it did happen it
32:17was consensual she was in the sleeping
32:21bag I came in she opened the sleeping
32:23bag
32:23I know she did that she said she did
32:26right well where do you go from there
32:31if it's he said she said
32:34then her feelings her emotion that and
32:39it's not like they have a camera
32:41recording their audio device to hear it
32:43she said yes or not like my actions my
32:46concern for her was that she get torn
32:49apart in a court she would and my
32:52feeling was to say to her we'll
32:54understand this because she had other
32:58very serious issues and be honest with
33:01you what I thought she wasn't a patient
33:03of mine but she'd asked me for my
33:04opinion my thought at the end of it is
33:07what happened is that she did have sex
33:09with him and then she found that that
33:11was all he wanted and thereafter he
33:14virtually ignored her and that was
33:17enough to make her feel terrible
33:23I eyed as far as I'm concerned I think
33:27it'd be one of the things I did find is
33:37that if things left in the unconscious
33:39which they are most for most of the
33:42things that our brains can't bear to
33:43look at all our feelings it could drive
33:47you to do things that even you are
33:49amazed by or ashamed by and a bit of
33:53alcohol can make it even more dangerous
33:54for you and I know there was a lot of
33:57times when you're talking very because
34:00it you know Freud was the first person
34:04to ever even explain the unconscious
34:06nobody even knew it existed before but
34:08the thing he didn't do is to map the
34:10unconscious but he didn't know how to
34:12and I was thought if you take a woman by
34:16the hand and you begin at the beginning
34:19of the first of her ever memories and
34:22you to walk through what happened during
34:25all that time so she can resolve and
34:28suddenly other things come up now I used
34:31to say it's like unpacking an attic
34:34that's been full of packing cases that
34:36you've never looked at and that's the
34:39work I used to do with the mothers
34:40because they were with me long enough to
34:42be able to do it it isn't well we'll
34:45take you in from one month then you have
34:46to find somewhere to live or willful it
34:48was like women could stay in the crisis
34:50refuge as long as they wanted to some
34:52stay for years some who've done and
34:55became mothers who actually ran the
34:57refuge others moved on to second stages
34:59and they were there for three or four
35:01years others moved off by themselves
35:03quite happily but there were chances
35:06there for people to really find out who
35:08they are and one of the problems for
35:11counseling it's not properly taught
35:13because again the what people were
35:16counselors are taught essentially is
35:19males or perpetrators and females are
35:22innocent victims right it's not like
35:24that human nature is infinitely
35:28educated do you think every victim has
35:34to take some responsibility for what
35:36happened
35:36we'll make choices we take
35:38responsibility for our choices and until
35:40you actually wake up to why you do it
35:42and it took me a very long time to
35:46realize some of the choices I made and
35:47then I realized far too late
35:50my father was such a brilliant man for
35:53all the terrifying monster II was in
35:56many ways I really really enjoyed
35:59listening to him because he was no China
36:01hand he was an Arabist means all sorts
36:04of things and I looked for that sort of
36:07man without even realizing it and which
36:11is fairly disastrous and I think for all
36:15of us yeah what do they say an
36:17unexamined life is not worth living so I
36:20think we all have to and most of all we
36:22need to be trained from a very young age
36:24about how we make relationships and why
36:27we make relationships not just about sex
36:30but they don't teach relationships in
36:31schools we met with a domestic violence
36:37victim this morning insane even
36:40interviewed him for a few hours and I
36:43found his first few months of beginning
36:48to date this girl very questionable in
36:50his choices and as much as I wanted to
36:54feel sorry for him and say yes you're a
36:58male victim of domestic violence
37:01I found I found myself victim blaming
37:06which is part of rape culture if you've
37:09heard what yeah because I've always been
37:11told that I'm victim blaming no he in
37:13many cases again it goes back to that
37:15thing there are people who are innocent
37:18victims of their partner's violence they
37:20quite genuinely really fallen for
37:23headliner surfer for somebody and then
37:25fine my God he's a raving psychopath and
37:27you can't pick those out I don't care
37:29how practiced you are but the majority
37:32are women that I've said who are victims
37:35of their own violence and their choices
37:36are based from their own childhood
37:39now you find an awful lot of men going
37:43for narcissistic women she because the
37:46man himself has very bad image of
37:49himself he's had probably an extremely
37:51damaging relationship with his mother
37:52and what does he do he goes out and the
37:55girl is in the center of the room
37:56getting all the attention everybody
37:58wants to be with her that's the one
38:00you'll pick why did he never asked
38:04himself why he does that and it's
38:07disastrous he is responsible for his
38:11decision of course he is
38:12and I don't let people off the hook any
38:15more than I let me off the hook you know
38:18we we are the choices we make bring
38:22consequences into our lives and the
38:24tragedy is when people don't even think
38:26that they actually get involved with a
38:29dangerous violent person and I look at
38:31them and say and you two chose to have
38:33children with him what have you done to
38:35your children you've landed them in this
38:38situation and they look at you because
38:41I've never even thought that they have a
38:42responsibility of choosing a parent who
38:46is not going to be dangerous to the
38:48child see I come from time for that
38:53things wasn't right families knew each
38:56other and I remember the first man I was
38:59really attracted to miss Williams was
39:01sitting with because we used to be
39:02chaperoned in my day you didn't go out
39:04on dates or any of that sort of thing
39:05until you about 102 but whoever has
39:08sitting there and I was dancing with
39:10this very divine young man she called me
39:12over and she said you're never dancing
39:14with him again Aaron and I said well why
39:16not and she said bad blood because she
39:20knew family and actually she turned out
39:23to be right but families didn't know
39:25each other you know and people and
39:29in a sense you know it wasn't the Asian
39:32idea of an arranged marriage but to an
39:34extent it was arranged because and
39:38actually at my in my time if it was a
39:40professional man marrying a woman she
39:44had to come and meet the people that he
39:46was working for yeah but it was it was
39:50far more regulated than it is now
39:52because it the fact and the truth is you
39:54don't just get involved with a man he
39:58gets them you get him involved and you
40:00get involved with his family he gets
40:02involved with your family and then what
40:04can happen to so many families is if he
40:06turns out to be extremely violent and
40:08dangerous you decimate your family how
40:12many mothers you know fathers are beside
40:14themselves knowing that their children
40:16are being harmed and their grandchildren
40:19nobody even considers them they don't
40:21have any rights well yeah I do find
40:26myself questioning the choices of some
40:30of these victims they're not victims you
40:34have to tell me you can't tell them that
40:35I'd tell them that I'd simply say stop
40:36it no it's your choice in your
40:39consequence and I'm certainly the
40:44suffice but I won't let them tell me
40:46that they're victims because they're not
40:49anyone that would with them women
40:51because they would come in seeing
40:53themselves as victims you know he did
40:55this he did that he did that and then I
40:58just said him and you what was your part
41:02because you see what I knew from the
41:04beginning like most domestic violence
41:06consensual both are involved sometimes
41:09ones the perpetrator at the other place
41:11the victim then it crosses over it's not
41:14it's not as though it's just all men or
41:16all women it's both and occasionally
41:19innocent victims very innocent but
41:23they're the ones that are going to be
41:25all right because they're still there
41:27they're they're whole most of them have
41:29come from good warm loving families and
41:31they can move on the people who get so
41:33incredibly damaged and don't see
41:35themselves as anything other than
41:36victims are those that have been there
41:38from their whole lives that's why it was
41:41important when I did questionnaires to
41:43look at three generations because you
41:46could see where it was coming from have
41:51you heard in the movie monster with
41:53Charlize Theron it was based off a true
41:56story but it was a serial killer who was
42:01a prostitute
42:02and she was a woman and she was abused
42:07and raped and held at gunpoint and you
42:11know put through everything in her line
42:13of work and she ended up turning on her
42:17clients and going on that killing spree
42:21and when I watched the film I found
42:27myself feeling like she's a victim of
42:31her circumstances and I didn't see her
42:35as this murderer I saw her as a victim
42:39of her serve circumstances and I wish I
42:43looked at more men that way because
42:45these violent men probably were abused
42:47yeah I see them both that way actually
42:51I'm I don't condone half of murdering
42:56men I don't think but I can I can I can
43:00absolutely understand I mean I've always
43:02tried to explain that especially my
43:05childhood I tried to kill my father
43:07quite seriously and it's like once you
43:09get to that was a point as a child I was
43:13a teenager it's like being a piece of
43:15cloth of elastic that's being pulled you
43:18know when you put it really really tight
43:20and then when you let it go it's all
43:22it's all bendy it's no longer that's
43:25exactly what happens and you get pushed
43:27to work it it essentially you never you
43:32in a sense also my mother set it up and
43:37I realized that it much later I realized
43:40that her message to me was you know he
43:44is so dreadful he's going to
43:46ask me for sex and it's your job to stop
43:48him because he's been abroad and he's
43:49just come home and I I'm that's why it's
43:53so incredibly complicated and yes in
43:57that particular film you feel a huge
43:59amount of compassion for her but if you
44:02knew we had a very famous case there's
44:05called niels he strangled and chopped
44:12off an eight and what for a lot of young
44:14homosexuals and he's obviously in prison
44:17for the rest of his life but if you knew
44:19the background of his in totally
44:21incestuous mother he was in her bed I
44:24found out from the supporters who he was
44:2715 and a half and then she took a lover
44:30and she wanted to share the bed with him
44:32and with the loved one and that
44:34precipitated a massive breakdown and
44:37that's why he eventually went for
44:41destroying all these young men and it's
44:45never come out the truth of why he did
44:46it they know how he did it but they
44:48don't know why it's a cycle yeah as they
44:54talk about the cycle of poverty cycle of
44:56deprivation there's the cycle of
44:58violence and all of it tends to go
45:00together
45:00not that this kind of very very
45:03significant violence can happen right
45:05away to cross across everywhere I mean
45:09it could be certainly in the world
45:10family it could be princess die because
45:13her father was extremely violent yeah it
45:17did it knows no boundaries so what I'm
45:23gathering there correct me if I'm wrong
45:25most abusers and violent people have
45:30some kind of history in their past their
45:32childhood actually personally all but
45:36not all people who were abused as
45:38children become absolute murderers or
45:41rapists no
45:42and because for so many there are other
45:45factors for instance I've often thought
45:48in the in the upper middle-class
45:51families they have nannies often who are
45:54surrogate mothers however bad the mother
45:55is they have an option and boarding
45:58school I went to hoarding school from
45:59the age of 9 to 16 saved me because I
46:04didn't have to live with them see that's
46:06another out the wealthy people have the
46:08children can get away make look at other
46:11models see other things happening and
46:14[Music]
46:15there are other ways of people
46:19transcending the violence no the problem
46:22is that too many repeat the pattern
46:29[Music]
46:35[Music]

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