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The Collapse of FTX | 24 hours later — Transcript

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0:21Thank you.
0:25Bankless Station, another emergency
0:27episode for you today. We are 24 hours
0:31after learning about the collapse of
0:33FTX, and a lot has happened since our
0:35last live stream in the last 24 hours.
0:38So, we felt the need to call this
0:40emergency episode live stream
0:43Part two.
0:43about it. Here we are again, round two.
0:46Are you feeling exhausted, David? Uh
0:48yeah, I'm pretty pretty exhausted. Um
0:51yesterday it was like exciting.
0:53Uh it was maybe dare I say fun, um but
0:56then today is a little bit more
0:58oh no, this is real. Uh this is bad. Uh
1:01this is something that we all have to
1:04get over as an industry.
1:06Um have to get over this this big ass
1:08hurdle. I think that that's the theme is
1:11basically what what are the consequences
1:13of people's actions. What's what is
1:15happening? What is the fallout going
1:17going to be? And I think some themes for
1:18this episode yesterday was kind of like
1:20what happened. Now we're dealing with
1:22the fallout, the contagion. Uh we're in
1:24damage control mode, and we're still
1:26trying to assess this. I mean, there's a
1:28lot of big questions people have. Seems
1:30to be there is a hole on FTX's balance
1:33sheet. Uh there was talk yesterday. The
1:35direction seemed to be uh CZ would kind
1:38of ride, bring the cavalry in, and and
1:40save the day, save depositors. Unsure if
1:43that's going to happen.
1:45We don't know how large the hole
1:46actually is. If CZ is
1:48is the question. How big is the hole,
1:51and is the hole acceptably small enough
1:55for somebody to willingly take on the
1:57challenge to plug it?
1:59Absolutely. Is it worth it for CZ? Uh
2:02yeah, is it even salvageable? That's the
2:04question. Um also, another big question
2:06which we didn't have an answer to
2:08yesterday. Now we have more clues, I
2:09think, David. Was FTX playing with
2:11depositors' money? Alameda, FTX, seems
2:14like these entities were somewhat tied
2:16at the hips. Yeah. Uh and um
2:18More so than we uh previously thought,
2:20yeah.
2:21More so than definitely more so than it
2:23was appropriate, more so than we
2:24previously thought. Some of these
2:25details are coming to light, so we felt
2:27the need to give you all of those
2:28details, and just have a conversation
2:31with the community about this, cuz
2:33prices are down bad. A lot of people
2:35still have funds frozen in FTX. So,
2:38guys, uh this is the emergency live
2:41stream that you're tuning into right
2:43now. David and I are going to get into
2:45all of the details, but before we do, we
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5:25Guys, we are back uh 24 hours after the
5:27collapse of FTX. It certainly looks like
5:30things have deteriorated, things have uh
5:32collapsed. David, let's give folks a
5:35recap for those that didn't catch the
5:37episode yesterday. Now, I I will say if
5:39you didn't catch the episode yesterday
5:41uh on the RSS feed in YouTube, there's a
5:44way to go check out David and I give a
5:45kind of a timeline of events that gets
5:47you all the way from early November up
5:49to November 8th. So, you can hear what
5:51happened then. We're picking this story
5:53up the next 24 hours. And by the way, in
5:55that previous episode, uh we've got
5:58takes from Erik Voorhees, uh Brian
6:00Armstrong dropped in and and uh said
6:02hello, gave his takes. We also had Ryan
6:05Selkis weigh in on the regulatory front.
6:07But David, catch us up with this recap.
6:09What has happened? What tweet are we
6:11looking at? Uh what's happened, I guess,
6:14in this whole course of events to get
6:15people up to speed? Yeah, so this is a a
6:17tweet thread out of Wassie Lawyer, who I
6:19thought did a pretty damn good job of
6:21summarizing everything, but it it starts
6:23the thread with uh the conclusion that
6:26out of all people, all entities that FTX
6:30might have chosen to get a buyout from,
6:32they chose Binance. Uh and so there's
6:34already significance in that choice as
6:36well. Uh Wassie uh gives a recap and
6:38says, "There were There were many
6:39options available to SBF. Seek emergency
6:41debt financing, which it was reported
6:43that SBF did go and do into Wall to Wall
6:46Street. Uh seek new money investment, or
6:48liquidate all their assets to buy time.
6:50Uh yet they chose to get uh emergency
6:53debt financing from Binance.
6:55Uh and so the Wassie Lawyer continues
6:57and goes, 'If he is seeking bankruptcy
6:59to protection to facilitate um Sam has
7:01chosen to seek a bailout from Binance,
7:03the very party that triggered the bank
7:05run in the first place.' This is what we
7:06talked about yesterday. What we can
7:08gather from this is that FTX was indeed
7:11lending out customer funds to other
7:12parties, because why else would a bank
7:14be a
7:14crypto bank be insolvent? Wow. Likely to
7:17Alameda.
7:18Uh and this means that, as Wassie Lawyer
7:20speculated earlier, FTX was working on a
7:22fractional reserve model, and it was not
7:24prepared to meet with the withdrawals
7:25from the run on the bank. Wow.
7:28which CZ triggered. Like we we we know
7:30this because like this FTX stopped with
7:33uh with processing withdrawals. This is
7:34This is the facts that we that we
7:36concluded with yesterday. Um but again,
7:39the speculation that I everyone in
7:41crypto Twitter in the world of crypto is
7:42is
7:43assuming to be true is that Alameda
7:46had FTX deposits, had FTX money. And
7:50Alameda, this is uh going on to tweet
7:51number four here. Alameda itself did not
7:53have the liquidity to return the funds
7:55to FTX, that thus leading it into the
7:58liquidity crisis that caused all of this
8:01drama
8:02uh uh that we have seen so forth. Um
8:05Uh and so Wassie Lawyer continues, "But
8:07this was not the the returns of money
8:09from Alameda to FTX was not enough,
8:12since customer confidence was not
8:14returning. This is kind of the run on
8:15the bank that CZ triggered. There were
8:17no deposits, only withdrawals. Uh some
8:19sort of external third-party funding was
8:21required to meet the outbound cash flows
8:23out of FTX. Uh and so Wassie Lawyer
8:26continues and says, 'Instead of seeking
8:28finance from any other party, or to buy
8:30more time by throttling withdrawals, SBF
8:32bent the knee to Binance. Does this mean
8:35that FTX was in such a deep hole that
8:38they weren't talking about emergency
8:40swing line, but full-on rescue
8:42financing?' As in, there were other less
8:45significant ways to plug this gap that
8:47might have FTX might have chosen, but
8:49they seemingly went for the most nuclear
8:51option, which is
8:53expensive option, the worst possible
8:55like an option that no one would It's
8:57the loan shark option, basically. The
8:59option that no one would choose unless
9:00they were in completely desperate
9:02straits.
9:03Uh yeah, right, exactly. And so this is
9:05what Wassie Lawyer says concluding that
9:07FTX had a massive hole in the balance
9:09sheet that could not be plugged by other
9:10financiers, uh which forced SBF to kiss
9:13the ring. So, this is the recap of where
9:15we are thus far. Uh and and no to the
9:18comment in the chat, we are not here
9:19just on YouTube to uh to read out
9:21tweets. Uh this was I thought a
9:23particularly good recap uh to to catch
9:26us up on the last 48 hours. Uh but that
9:28was yesterday, right? That was
9:29yesterday. I think the key the key thing
9:32here is like what we can gather was that
9:34FTX was in was uh lending out customer
9:36funds to other parties,
9:39likely to Alameda. That's crazy. So,
9:42SBF, FTX, and Alameda, looks like they
9:44were commingled. Alameda, of course, was
9:46a Three Arrows Capital style fund, and
9:49that was combined with uh FTX, an
9:52exchange. One is essentially a a bank,
9:55where you're supposed to inside of a
9:57bank, you're supposed to deposit your
9:58funds they keep it safe
10:00you know
10:01not to be traded not to be speculated
10:03with and Alameda of course is a
10:04completely different business model it
10:06is a three arrows capital highly risky
10:08and of course we saw what happened to
10:10three arrows capital went completely
10:12bust back in what was that May of this
10:15year?
10:15Yeah. And it looks like some of the
10:16funds were commingled that's what we can
10:19infer from this data a few other
10:21implications I think I was thinking
10:22about this you know yesterday at the
10:24close of yesterday so I was you know
10:27thinking reflecting on the day. One SBF
10:30has been downgraded from billionaire to
10:32millionaire David there's a report that
10:34he lost 96%
10:37of his net worth and I think continuing
10:39to drop right he's one of the richest
10:42people in the world I mean
10:4320 22 billion dollars was on Forbes list
10:47I think he may have made the cover of
10:48Forbes.
10:48Yeah. He is now downgraded to
10:51millionaire I'm sure he's just going to
10:53be just fine except I'm also not sure
10:56about
10:57you know kind of the the legal
10:58implications of this if this looks like
11:00something a bit more like fraud.
11:01Yeah if if it's one thing first off it's
11:03a he's a millionaire he's a hundreds of
11:06millionaire he's got a net worth of like
11:07over 500 million so I don't I don't I'm
11:10not like he's doing the whole crying
11:12with cash on his eyes thing right now.
11:14Well we'll see I mean he might be doing
11:16that in jail.
11:18Yeah in in the jail.
11:21yeah it doesn't matter how much money
11:22you have if you have to go to jail but
11:24we'll talk about that later. This is a
11:25key implication one of the mighty
11:28like I mean everyone looked up to this
11:30guy Arthur Hayes even as recently as
11:32this morning called him a once in a
11:33generation trader and he's been kind of
11:36gone like reputation ruined
11:38second FTX becomes a vassal of Binance
11:41seems like that is is happening they've
11:43already bent the knee whether Binance
11:44purchases FTX or not we'll see. CZ
11:48I think he's on track to become the
11:49richest person alive
11:51certainly. If if this deal well he's
11:54he's definitely up there to begin with
11:55if this deal goes through
11:57I don't think much new wealth goes to CZ
12:01but so much more power goes to CZ.
12:03Power and then just think about like
12:04kind of next cycle once
12:06crypto's going to recover once it does
12:08CZ will own this market from a banker
12:10perspective it's just like CZ and Brian
12:12Armstrong kind of standing.
12:14Right that's yeah.
12:15Speaking of Brian Coinbase gains some
12:17major legitimacy here.
12:18Big time big time. game doing things
12:20right didn't have any assets on FTX like
12:24they come out looking squeaky squeaky
12:26clean and thank God we have them in the
12:28US cuz you know the US regulators are
12:30looking at crypto and being like yeah
12:32you say you guys aren't the wild west
12:34like look what just happened.
12:35Right exactly. And this is why I think
12:38you know SBF's DCCPA
12:41bill is dead completely dead he was
12:44giving that a lot of credibility and
12:46we've lost a lot of that credibility in
12:49DC my conclusion is after we all of the
12:52events of this year I felt like over the
12:54past 18 months you know two years this
12:57this a lot of this bull market cycle
13:00it's been kind of the era of like
13:02finance bros almost I mean like there's
13:04been a whole campaign in crypto that has
13:07hasn't been here for the OG crypto
13:09values and
13:11they've been completely like wiped out
13:14three arrows capital Luna you know
13:15Celsius taking the shortcuts doing
13:18things on margin algo stable coins that
13:22like clearly couldn't hold up to you the
13:25the true pressure and scrutiny of the
13:26market and now FTX it's the end of an
13:29era and I think what's going to happen
13:31David is almost like a a reformation
13:34type movement in crypto where we sort of
13:36go back to some of the roots of this
13:39industry. Go back to first principles
13:41and why like trustless ownership of
13:44assets and not your not your keys not
13:45your crypto going back to stuff like
13:47that not your keys not your crypto like
13:50it's crazy Ryan that we have to do this.
13:54It's crazy that this happens over and
13:56over and over again. It's crazy but one
13:59thing is I don't think it happens twice
14:01to the same people.
14:03Mhm. All right so the people who got
14:05Mount Goxed
14:06I'm betting did not get FTXed Yeah. just
14:09now.
14:10Big time. It's so the reason we have to
14:12keep repeating this is because we have
14:14no new cohorts it's like every class
14:17every crypto generation has to learn
14:19these lessons and look before 2022 Mount
14:22Gox was like an artifact of the past 10
14:25years ago before we had smart contract
14:28platforms before we were more
14:29sophisticated before the professionals
14:31like SBF and Su Zhu
14:34and Do Kwon were had entered who know
14:37finance know how the space works right
14:40Mount Gox what does that stand for?
14:41Magic the Gathering online exchange.
14:44Right?
14:44Right exactly. Really different level of
14:46sophistication and so what has to happen
14:49is is the new cohort the new class has
14:51to
14:52you know has to learn these lessons but
14:54let me ask you David Um I I know I was
14:56talking to you this morning and
14:59you're pretty down right like what
15:01what's your mood been about this?
15:04It's like like I said yesterday it was
15:08there was drama and drama on crypto
15:10Twitter like crypto Twitter jokes were
15:12like really good
15:14and like drama as a content producer is
15:17kind of fun but then I wake up this
15:18morning and I'm like
15:19oh
15:20now we have to clean up. Now we have to
15:24now we have to now there yeah now we
15:26have to grab a mop and like clean up
15:27after the mess and this is the problem
15:29of people like Do Kwon and people like
15:32three arrows capital any anybody who
15:35takes on significant responsibility and
15:37then burns that responsibility we have
15:40to clean up their mess and and now like
15:45we have like the third tied for second
15:48biggest exchange in crypto going under
15:51like after three arrows capital is gone
15:54after Terra Luna has blown up like
15:55there's less and less people to clean up
15:57this mess as the bear market goes on and
16:00so like now the responsibility of
16:02fixing the the PR branding of crypto
16:06is like falling on fewer and fewer
16:08people's people's shoulders because
16:10people are like fed up people like I
16:12have not seen Ryan more people talk
16:14about like Kobe today Kobe was like I
16:17have thought about leaving this industry
16:19many times before but today I came so
16:21close to the brink of just leaving and
16:24getting out of here. Did you think about
16:26that did you think about leaving? No I
16:28no I can't I can't leave I don't have
16:30anywhere to go.
16:32Dude has no home. But like
16:34Nowhere to go. This is like
16:37what how many times are we going to do
16:38this like So okay so that sounds like
16:42to me that sounds like frustration.
16:44Yeah big frustration. You're you're mad
16:46so I tweeted this out just mad or sad do
16:49a poll right and it's like I feel like
16:51these are the I guess some of the early
16:53stages of grief is either you you're
16:55you're angry or or you're sad but you
16:57just reflected on on something that uh
16:59uh is cleaning up after the party. Um
17:03yo can someone tell our lawmakers the
17:04FTX thing was C F I again not D F I.
17:07Right. Okay so
17:08It's going to take and like the thing is
17:11this is we're going to preach about this
17:13is why we D F I this is what C F I is
17:14here to do if you were in D F I you were
17:16fine we have been yelling that take for
17:19the past like 12 months no one cares
17:21anymore like no one even cares about D F
17:23I. Imagine you're Jake Chervinsky so
17:26I said this and Jake Chervinsky is like
17:28on it but like imagine thank you Jake
17:31imagine you're Jake Chervinsky you're
17:32working with lawmakers on to try to get
17:35like good D F I language or to try to
17:38get that excluded from the DCCPA they
17:40barely understand crypto and the egg
17:42committee agriculture committee and then
17:44this happens this week.
17:46What do you think that does to our
17:48credibility in DC?
17:50People like Jake people like the D F I
17:51education fund
17:53SBF is no longer going to have a place
17:55at the table obviously right completely
17:58delegitimized our industry yet again and
18:00people are going to have to
18:02try to pick up these pieces and try to
18:05tell lawmakers like what really happened
18:08but I think we're going to get broad
18:09brushed here which is so unfortunate
18:11that's why it costs us so much these
18:13types of things cost us so much
18:16the legitimacy of the space reputation
18:18of the space
18:20I mean people can't differentiate
18:21between D F I and C F I to your point
18:23okay so you're frustrated. It's
18:26I think just like at this point after
18:28Terra Luna after three arrows capital
18:31now after the third largest the reason
18:33why this hits extra hard is cuz like you
18:36could be forgiven for not knowing who
18:37three arrows capital was if you weren't
18:39in crypto but FTX went on huge
18:42promotional campaigns they bought an
18:44arena in Florida Tom Brady they had
18:47commercial Super Bowl commercials and
18:49that's what went under so like now
18:51there's FTX Arena
18:54now which is now FTX is now worth Miami
18:57is the old Miami Heat Arena
19:00I think that's right maybe it's one
19:02sports thing that It's it's not going to
19:03be next year I mean someone else is
19:05going to have to I guess they give it
19:06back to Wells Fargo or whatever.
19:07I guess so yeah but like the the problem
19:10is it like FTX was so public and then
19:13they burned they to a lot of people FTX
19:16is crypto and so when they go under like
19:19it it's the it the scar on the PR of
19:22crypto is so much worse it just kind of
19:24reminds me of like the ICO era where
19:26like the only reason why the bear the
19:28bull market started in 2020
19:30was because people finally forgot that
19:32the ICO era existed and so I've been
19:35bullish on this bear market
19:38up till recently just because like oh
19:40it's not so bad like three arrows
19:41capital like yeah Do Kwon Terra Luna
19:44algorithmic stable coins great we
19:45learned that lesson we learned the
19:47lesson that was new for us we learned
19:48the lesson that the algorithmic stable
19:50coin is not a good thing. We had learned
19:52this lesson and it was what the third
19:54second biggest exchange crypto exchange
19:56of all time.
19:57And so like like now at this point I'm
20:00just like capitulating on the ideas like
20:02now the only like way to get more people
20:04excited about crypto is to get them to
20:06forget about 2022.
20:08Yeah.
20:09I I So I was reading the the chat log as
20:12as you were somebody's asking if there's
20:14another leg down coming. We'll get to
20:16that. I think the answer could very well
20:18be yes.
20:19Some people are yeah. The fact is that
20:21opinions out there. Yeah. But but let me
20:23ask you more about your mood cuz what
20:25I'm hearing now is
20:26this afternoon David is frustrated and
20:30angry. But this morning David when I
20:32talked to you you were like the first
20:34like words out of your mouth were like
20:36I'm sad. Yeah. And I think that's the
20:39that's the other mood that and and I
20:41want to ask the chat too like Bankless
20:43community how you guys feeling about
20:45this? Like how you doing? You guys you
20:47guys okay?
20:48Let us know they want us to stop talking
20:50about our emotions but I think we should
20:52talk about
20:55What I I think the entire crypto
20:57industry is is saddened by this as well.
21:00Can you can you tap into that? For a
21:02minute. I mean a lot of people still
21:03have their funds on FTX and they don't
21:06know if they're going to get their money
21:08back. All right? Yeah I actually chat if
21:11you have funds on FTX I drop a message
21:13in the chat cuz I'd like to know if how
21:15many people like what that watch
21:17Bankless like you also use FTX and like
21:19lost money in FTX.
21:21Cuz like now now there are like there
21:23are people offering
21:25hey I'm selling all of my I'm willing to
21:28put an offer of like my $1 that I have
21:31in
21:32in FTX at like 70 cents on the dollar.
21:34Like I we've seen tweets like this where
21:36people are selling their FTX accounts
21:38for a discount for people that would
21:39like to take the gamble that
21:42that you somebody might pull through and
21:44make them whole. I'm saying like like
21:46maybe 20% of the chat is saying yes I
21:49have funds on FTX. 80% maybe saying
21:52saying no. Okay. So thankfully a lot of
21:55Bankless listeners have avoided that.
21:58But
21:59look if if you were among those who
22:01still have funds in FTX okay?
22:04Let me just tell you it's not it didn't
22:06just happen to the the people who are
22:08new in crypto. Yeah. I mean David do you
22:10see some of the people who are like look
22:12we got completely wrecked. Researchers.
22:14Researchers was it
22:16Tom from Delphi? I saw No I I think he
22:18just was giving his
22:20condolences.
22:21Larry Cermak from The Block said he
22:23would he got his biggest day one loss of
22:25all time because he trusted FTX. Guys
22:29right? Yeah. Like these are super smart
22:32sophisticated individuals that I would
22:33not blame that that was a calculated
22:35choice and like honestly no one saw this
22:37coming. No one saw this coming not at
22:39all.
22:39No one saw no one Okay so I think look
22:42here's the thing we have to protect
22:43ourselves against. I think we know the
22:45general principle of not your keys not
22:47your coin right? Like that should be
22:50evident. So like do you remember
22:52Andreas? Man I go back to the OG's. You
22:55remember Andreas Antonopoulos? He's like
22:57he's like an exchange should be like a
22:59public bathroom. You get in do your
23:01business
23:03Right? Like that's how we should treat
23:05exchanges and we didn't. Mhm. Not us I'm
23:09talking about like many in the industry
23:10didn't and had funds in FTX. But it's
23:12like so I am I'm also tapping like I
23:15feel that
23:17a lot of people lost some a lot of money
23:19and the other the other piece here that
23:21that saddens me is like
23:23It didn't it's a it's another David it's
23:26another self-inflicted wound. Mhm. Okay?
23:29That's going to set us back just like
23:31Luna Terra Three Arrows Capital
23:33self-inflicted wounds. Like literally
23:36the shotgun and we're shooting ourselves
23:37in the foot.
23:38Mhm. It's just it didn't have to be like
23:40this.
23:41SBF
23:43is a genius. I think he like saying that
23:45now sounds really but like I think he is
23:47a brilliant once in a generation trader.
23:51Like FTX
23:52was a great product except for the
23:55insolvency thing. But like it worked.
23:57They added features very quickly. Like
23:58it was in some ways ahead of like
24:00Coinbase and some of its contemporaries.
24:02I mean
24:03execution kind of got them there.
24:05And then he made this mistake and it's
24:08all self-inflicted and like I'm sad
24:10because it's cost a lot of people a lot.
24:11It's cost our industry a lot and I think
24:13it's set us back. I don't know I can't
24:15put a timeline like has it set us back a
24:17year? Has it set us back 18 months?
24:20Like two years?
24:22I mean we we we already had debts to pay
24:24with like Three Arrows Capital and and
24:26Luna and all that stuff
24:27but yeah it's just added more debt to
24:29pay for sure. David someone wants to in
24:32the chat wants to see if we'll publicly
24:34apologize to Bitcoin for being
24:36or sorry to BitBoy.
24:39Were we wrong about BitBoy? Yeah
24:41so I was talking to somebody from from
24:43the Bankless side of things about like
24:44all right well why is everyone in the
24:45chat saying that BitBoy was right?
24:46Apparently BitBoy like a while ago was
24:48like get your funds out of FTX.
24:51So if he said that like yeah good job
24:54BitBoy. That's great.
24:56The the take that I heard and like I
24:57need to go go and find out where he
24:59actually said this but like the take
25:00that I heard is like
25:02BitBoy kind of says a lot of things.
25:05But if he said that then that was great
25:07and if people listened to him then
25:08that's great. Look but generally let's
25:10let's apply that to get your funds out
25:11of all exchanges like
25:13you know no one knows the next exchange
25:16to to kind of go bust and this is why we
25:19have to go to Bankless.
25:21Um
25:22Can we talk about the story? Can we
25:23continue the story here?
25:25All right.
25:26now now we're going to that that was the
25:27the emotional recap. Now we're going to
25:29talk about some of the things that have
25:30happened today.
25:33Yeah.
25:34Let's talk about uh Yeah so this this
25:36all started with CZ. And this is where
25:38it starts this morning too. What's he
25:40tweeting here? Yeah so CZ says in the
25:42spirit of transparency might as well
25:43share the actual note and actually like
25:46a memo sent to the Binance team.
25:48So apparently Binance people employees
25:50are called Binancians and CZ says given
25:53the events that transpired over the last
25:54couple days I want to reiterate a few
25:55points. One we did not master this or
25:58anything related to it. It was less than
26:0024 hours ago that SBF called me and
26:02before that I had very little knowledge
26:03of the internal state of things at FTX.
26:05I could do some mental calculations with
26:07our revenues to guess theirs but it was
26:09would never be accurate.
26:10I was surprised when he wanted to talk.
26:13My first reaction was he wants to do an
26:14OTC deal but here we are. Two as the due
26:17diligence for the deal is ongoing I want
26:19to remind every everyone do not trade
26:21FTT tokens. If you have a bag you have a
26:23bag do not sell or buy. As soon as I
26:25finished the call with SBF yesterday I
26:27asked our team to stop selling as an
26:28organization. Yes we have a bag but
26:30that's okay. More importantly we need to
26:31hold ourselves to a higher standard than
26:33even banks. Three obviously do not
26:35comment on the deal publicly or
26:36internally if you are not directly
26:38involved do not ask. We have a good team
26:40handling it things will play out. That's
26:41about the audit that they are Binance is
26:44auditing FTX. Four FTX going down is not
26:47good for anyone in the industry. Do not
26:49view it as a win for us. User confidence
26:51is severely shaken regulators will
26:53scrutinize exchanges even more. Licenses
26:55around the globe will get harder and
26:56people now think that we are the biggest
26:59and will attack us more.
27:01That that's that's okay we are used to
27:02being open and leaning into headwinds.
27:04In fact we embrace the scrutiny. We must
27:06significantly increase our transparency
27:08proof of reserves insurance funds etc. A
27:10lot more to come in this area. We have a
27:12lot of tough work ahead of us not to
27:13mention prices swinging wildly. Five
27:15speaking of prices as I have said many
27:17times over the years ignore the prices.
27:19Let's keep our heads down and focus on
27:20building products people use. It has
27:22worked for us for years and today is
27:23lastly no obviously no exception. And
27:25lastly I want to say that I'm proud of
27:27each and every one of you for all of
27:28your hard work as a team. Thank you. We
27:30have so many challenges ahead. Let's
27:31continue to push ahead and help increase
27:33the freedom of money all around the
27:34world steadily and consistently. Ryan
27:36what's your what's your reaction to this
27:37memo?
27:38Um look I mean people said it's
27:40transparent and I totally agree. I think
27:42it's extremely transparent. Yeah. But
27:43there is a side of like um
27:46Yeah true transparency shares everything
27:49of course and this is like selective
27:51transparency which is which is
27:52interesting. So
27:54look I I I think uh
27:56CZ is too strategy boss
27:59to like I'm like he knows he's very he
28:01knows exactly what he's doing. He's
28:03totally in command. So he
28:05while this is a transparent I'm sure
28:07this is a real internal memo
28:10he also chose to share it very
28:11strategically. Very strategic.
28:13Everything everything he does is very
28:14intentional. Yeah. Yes. So I I will give
28:16it that context. So the question is like
28:19what is he saying and and why is he why
28:22is he saying it? I think
28:24you know the point to you due diligence
28:26for the deal is still ongoing. Right. So
28:28he's just reestablishing that like
28:31no
28:32Binance has not acquired FTX. There's an
28:35LOI
28:36and we're still doing due diligence and
28:39um
28:40you know fourth he's kind of giving a
28:42reason that this is this is not good for
28:44everyone in the industry. So maybe that
28:46is a driving force for why CZ comes in
28:49and rescues the thing.
28:51I guess the the big question to me is
28:52like because
28:53maybe we'll get to this but reports
28:55after this have been saying that
28:58CZ Binance is considering walking away
29:00from the deal. Right. Right and
29:03hearing that is also kind of to be
29:05expected as well as part of like part of
29:08the negotiation part of the deal type
29:10stuff right? Like you just maybe we'll
29:13walk away. Like you know in order to get
29:16the best terms. But it it's just I guess
29:18it's hard to know what to what to
29:21believe at this point or what CZ's true
29:23intentions are and maybe he doesn't know
29:25until they fully do the due diligence
29:27hear the blowback from the community. Um
29:30David the government may even be
29:32stepping in here in some way. Like
29:34there's
29:35conversations we're not privy to.
29:37Um The chat is being much more skeptical
29:41on on CZ than we are.
29:43People are saying that he is a
29:45mastermind. He
29:48coordinated, orchestrated everything.
29:51I don't know. I kind of I'm ready to
29:53take CZ at face value, to be honest. I
29:55don't know. I think both of these things
29:56can be true. It's like I I I think he is
29:58a mastermind.
30:00But I also think that
30:02he's played the long-term game in in
30:04crypto somewhat, at least much more so
30:05than than SBF, or SBF wouldn't be in
30:08this place of weakness. Yeah. So this is
30:11a tweet out of a ledger who is
30:13saying that Sam is deleting tweets. And
30:16the tweet being deleted is a tweet that
30:17says FTX is fine, assets are fine. And
30:19another tweet that says FTX has enough
30:22to cover all client holdings. We don't
30:24invest client assets even in treasuries.
30:26The idea is that these tweets are being
30:28deleted because they're wrong at best
30:32and perhaps lies at worst. And if
30:34they're lies, then that's fraud. Well,
30:37let's be clear on two things. One,
30:40Sam, you can't delete things from the
30:41internet. Yeah. Still got it.
30:43The internet remembers. And number two,
30:46I'm doubtful this was actually SBF. I'm
30:47sure it's his legal team.
30:48I think it's been I think it's been
30:50legal team and lawyers and PR for the
30:53past at least 36 hours, 48 hours, yeah.
30:55But David, let's remember what he said
30:57November 7th, the context for this. FTX
31:00is Monday. Assets are fine. FTX is fine.
31:03FTX
31:05has enough to cover all client holdings.
31:07We don't invest client assets even in
31:09treasuries. These are If any of these
31:12things are not true,
31:15I mean, what is what do you call this
31:16tweet? Outright lying? Yeah. Lying,
31:19fraud, deception?
31:20Lying and fraud are like the same,
31:21right? Like it's just like fraud is just
31:23like a lie that's in court.
31:25I think there's I I don't think you can
31:28Yes, I think this like, you know, I
31:30don't know what the legal distinction
31:32between these things are. But but fraud
31:34is fraud is certainly a crime,
31:35especially when you're a crypto exchange
31:36and a banker.
31:37This was a This was a big oof. And so
31:39here is a picture of an old Sam tweet
31:42that says
31:43Biggest things here are making sure no
31:45one goes under. It's making sure that
31:47one, it's not to unsuspecting retail.
31:49Two, that risks are properly disclosed.
31:51And three, no contagion.
31:54And so this was This was when it was
31:56back in June. And so it's just like a
31:59big oof because
32:01And this was after in the context of
32:02after Three Arrows Capital Right.
32:04Right.
32:05Sam's weighing in on this.
32:06Yes, exactly.
32:07And he's like, it's not What What is he
32:09saying here?
32:10If if something goes down, you have to
32:12make sure number one, it doesn't affect
32:15unsuspecting retail. Number two, the
32:17risks were properly disclosed. And
32:19number three, it's no contagion. I think
32:20we got all those boxes checked.
32:23I don't think retail in FTX is feeling
32:25particularly good about this. I think
32:27they're feeling pretty affected right
32:28now. I don't think
32:30the risks of depositing funds into FTX
32:34were fully disclosed. And by the way, do
32:35you know, David, the chat was saying
32:37this?
32:37Um
32:38you can still deposit funds into FTX.
32:41deposit money into FTX. If you deposit
32:45that down. Right. And because like, you
32:46know, people Sometimes people don't
32:47check. They are They aren't in crypto
32:49Twitter. They aren't following the news.
32:50So if you deposit money into FTX, it's
32:53just like, and it's gone. You know that
32:55meme? That meme the bank of like you
32:57give the money to the bank and then they
32:58say, and it's gone. It's literally that.
33:00I'm sure it's happened. I'm sure
33:01there's You can watch it on chain.
33:03People are actually sending money to FTX
33:05right now.
33:06And number three, no contagion. We're
33:08definitely Oh, we're definitely talking
33:10about
33:11Yeah, that's what we're talking about
33:12next, yeah. Even Edward Snowden is is
33:15tuning
33:16giving his takes here. So this is Edward
33:18Snowden deleting the tweet about or
33:21retweeting the tweet about Sam deleting
33:22his tweets saying, and they call me a
33:24criminal.
33:26I think this is one of the bigger
33:27questions is like, is SBF in legal
33:30trouble?
33:31And I think the answer to that question
33:32is going to be a function of how big the
33:35hole is on the FTX balance sheet. We do
33:37not know.
33:38yes?
33:40I mean, the fact that he's in legal
33:41trouble? We just don't know how much at
33:42this point.
33:43don't know how much, yeah. I mean, can't
33:45we just like let's connect some dots
33:46here. Yeah, I mean, we're Yeah, things
33:48are going to courts at the very least. I
33:50think whether he is personally in legal
33:52trouble is perhaps still up in the air.
33:54Yeah.
33:55This is SBF to you investors. This is a
33:58letter that
34:00appears to be legitimate from the mouth
34:02of SBF. And he says this. This was
34:04yesterday to his investors, of course,
34:06the investors in FTX. I'm sorry I've
34:09been hard to contact the last few days.
34:11I wish I could have been more
34:12communicative communicative
34:15during this process, but unfortunately I
34:17wasn't able to be. Things were coming
34:19together dynamically. Wow, that's an
34:21understatement. We've entered into a
34:23non-binding agreement with Binance to
34:25buy FTX. What does this mean exactly?
34:27That's a good question. Fortunately, I
34:28don't have a perfect answer for you
34:30because the details are still being
34:31hashed out. We'll keep you updated as we
34:33learn more over the next days and weeks.
34:36This is key.
34:37Our first priority, he says, is to
34:39protect customers and the industry.
34:41That's been guiding what we do.
34:43Has it? We're optimistic that we'll
34:45accomplish all of these, which means
34:47that we'll soon be focusing on our
34:49second priority, our shareholders. First
34:52depositors, second shareholders. That
34:54should be the stacking order. Again, I
34:56wish I had more details for you guys
34:57right now. I don't yet. I'll give them
34:59as they're hashed out, but protecting
35:01our shareholders is our highest priority
35:02outside of non-negotiable ones.
35:04I'm likely to be very swamped for the
35:06next few days, so unfortunately, I
35:07probably won't have much time for a bit.
35:10And then he refers to somebody on the
35:12team who might be have some more time.
35:14And he says he'll write back soon later
35:18when he has more details. That is the
35:19message from SBF. What do you make of
35:21this? It's
35:24uh
35:24I think If you scroll down, I think
35:27Aubrey's trouble had a really good take.
35:28Yeah, there we go. That's my opinion.
35:31You're on your own? You're on your own.
35:32Pew pew pew. We're out of here.
35:36Basically saying, you guys are last to
35:38get reimbursed.
35:40Now, this is something I think that is
35:41that is breaking actually. So this was a
35:44a story from this morning from CoinDesk
35:46saying Binance is strongly leaning
35:47towards scrapping FTX. David, I think
35:50while we've started live streaming, we
35:52may have a different report An
35:54additional report, a developing report,
35:56yeah. So So this is what came out this
35:57morning is like, Binance took a look at
35:59the balance sheet and they got real
36:00scared.
36:02The most recent report was chat was just
36:04blowing up about.
36:05$1 Binance FTX deal is off the table
36:08unless FTX US is a part of the package,
36:12which FTX US and FTX are different
36:15entities.
36:16Same brand in the same way that Binance
36:18US and Binance
36:19Binance F So that's that is how much
36:22Binance or FTX is worth. So FTX is worth
36:26$1.
36:27$1? $1.
36:29Because they have X number of billion
36:32dollar hole on their balance sheet. So
36:34they owe money. And so the reason why
36:36somebody like Binance would buy FTX is
36:39because they have employees, they have a
36:41network, they have branding, they have
36:43a stadium.
36:44a symbol that you're buying.
36:46Liabilities not assets.
36:48buying liabilities not assets, right? It
36:50could be $10. It could be $69. It could
36:53be $420, but it's one in this case.
36:55Yeah, you you are buying debt. So like
36:58it's not it's not cool to go buy this
37:00FTX thing. You are buying liabilities.
37:03So like I mean, Ryan, do you want to go
37:05buy
37:06FTX for $1? I do not. I do not.
37:09to Do you want to take on the
37:09responsibility of repaying billions of
37:11dollars of customer deposits? No,
37:13thanks.
37:14Well, see, neither does CZ
37:16unless allegedly
37:18FTX US is a part of the package. All
37:20right. Well, you know what this headline
37:21reads to me? Hm.
37:23Negotiation. Yeah.
37:25This is CZ negotiation. Yeah. I want
37:28FTX, too. What What's Sam going to say?
37:31I mean, he's going to say, yes, sir. You
37:33can have FTX as well. Like what What
37:35What other choices are there?
37:36I I don't Again, I don't know. I'm not a
37:38lawyer.
37:39But if the choice is saying yes or going
37:42to jail, that might be the rock in the
37:44hard place that Sam finds himself in.
37:46And one of those choices is easier than
37:48the others.
37:50Which one?
37:51Saying yes to CZ versus going to jail.
37:53Not going to jail. Not going to jail,
37:55yeah. Definitely be the preference.
37:58What are we looking at here? This is a
37:59headline from Bloomberg, whose main main
38:01street mainstream media financial news
38:04is reporting on this. Yeah, so the
38:06headline here
38:08Sam Bankman-Fried's FTX empire faces US
38:10probe into client funds and lending.
38:13And so this is the the
38:16This is regulators coming for crypto
38:18because we messed up. We didn't
38:21self-regulate.
38:22Wait, me? We? Yes, us, all of us. We
38:25did? We did. We as an industry messed
38:28up. I have a hard time with that.
38:30I understand that take.
38:33I also have a hard time with that.
38:36Regulators coming in, it's frustrating.
38:38I'll go to the SEC now, and it's
38:39frustrating that this is happening after
38:41the fact, not before.
38:44But yet, here we are. But now FTX is
38:46getting a probe, so I think we can
38:48expect if not willing clarity, then
38:51forced clarity because of It's SEC and
38:54CFTC probes.
38:55So
38:56the the three four-letter institutions
38:58are now getting involved.
39:00I think the big question which we're
39:01still going to get to you a little bit
39:03later in all of this, the acquisition,
39:05all of this, and even kind of the
39:07investigation by the authorities, is how
39:09big is the hole? How big is the hole?
39:11That's what we need to to get to
39:13eventually. But so What happened this
39:15morning? Yeah, so this is another quote
39:17out of DB.
39:19I don't know the source, but they're
39:20saying the legal and compliance teams
39:22all just quit.
39:24Um
39:25Oof. I mean, you you
39:27What What other message can you take
39:29away from how big the hole is when you
39:32see the legal and compliance team just
39:34like completely They're just abandoning
39:35ship. Yeah. They're like, hey hey guys,
39:37do you want to help us like plug the
39:39holes in this ship? And they're like,
39:40no, we're bailing out of this ship."
39:43We're out of here.
39:44Nope. Yeah, we don't want to take on too
39:45much water. Yeah. We don't want to end
39:47up in orange jumpsuit, either.
39:48Um this is crazy, though. Just to kind
39:50of zoom out and if all
39:52this the chat, Ryan, is uh Binance is
39:55officially walking away from the chat. I
39:57think that's supposed to be
39:58from the what?
39:59Excuse me, the chat. The deal. Uh I
40:01think that's supposed to be regardless
40:02of uh whether or not uh
40:06uh FTX US is involved or not. Oh my god.
40:09Uh you want to pull up the Bitcoin
40:10chart, the ether chart? Let's see what
40:12that that's done to the markets.
40:14do. Do I have to? Uh yeah, let's do it.
40:16Let's That's what the uh
40:19Okay. Well, I mean, we're at the lows,
40:21but
40:22uh we haven't broken down any further.
40:24Okay, but so where's this uh sourced
40:25here? Uh Wall Street Journal. It's the
40:27Wall Street Journal, yeah. Mhm. Wow.
40:29Yeah.
40:31The headline here,
40:32if you're listening to this, Binance
40:34walks away from FTX deal, according to
40:36company
40:37That was 5 minutes ago. According to
40:39uh according to uh
40:41Well, so maybe it's more than
40:43negotiation posturing here, David. Mhm.
40:46Um can we can we linger on that for for
40:48just a second? What would it mean
40:51if Binance walks away
40:54from this deal?
40:55Uh I we I think we are assuming that
40:59Binance is the most willing purchaser of
41:02FTX US, as in
41:05the deepest pockets, the most relevant
41:06company,
41:08uh and if they are saying that they are
41:10walking away from the deal, that means
41:12FTX is such a toxic balance sheet that
41:16no one will touch it, and whatever few
41:19remaining assets will be liquidated, and
41:21the courts are going to determine who
41:23gets what. Oh my god. If you have money
41:26in FTX, you are going to, after years of
41:29courts court battles, you are going to
41:32be returned probably pennies on the
41:33dollar, depending on how big the hole is
41:36in FTX, which again, we do not know.
41:39The
41:40So, I think what this is implying is if
41:44if CZ if Binance walks away, then all
41:46FTX depositors have just been
41:48Mashinsky'd.
41:49You've been Alex Mashinsky'd.
41:51Yeah. Which of course is uh where where
41:53Celsius has gone. I'm going to shoot
41:55from the hip here and say less than 15
41:57cents on the dollar.
41:59Uh so, this is what's uh crazy about
42:01some of these crypto bank lending
42:04institution failings, right? Is um you
42:06had Celsius, Alex Mashinsky, that's
42:08going to bankruptcy court. Um people
42:11aren't getting their money back anytime
42:12soon. If they do, it'll be pennies cents
42:15on the dollars
42:16um after, you know, years of
42:18proceedings. Um you know, another
42:20comparison is is Mount Gox. You've been
42:22Mashinsky'd, you've been Mount Gox'd.
42:24With some of the the crypto bank
42:25failures like BlockFi, for instance, um
42:28there was a bailout for depositors. But
42:31David, guess who bailed them out?
42:33Uh tell me.
42:35Who bailed out BlockFi? You remember
42:36this.
42:37it was FTX.
42:40What do we do?
42:42Oh my god. Chat, can you can you link
42:45the uh the the uh
45:05like that the evidence is um coming out
45:07that this this theory could be more
45:08correct than not. So, uh yeah. What
45:10What's the theory of how all of this
45:11happened and how
45:13yeah, the whole got so big? So, this is
45:16uh
45:17when we started the live stream
45:18yesterday,
45:19uh I I kind of proposed this question as
45:22to like, "Why didn't Alameda Research
45:25blow up like everyone else after the
45:28Three Arrows Capital contagion?" Like,
45:30why were they different? Uh because that
45:33that did kind of stick out. Why was
45:34Three Why was FTX able to buy up
45:37everyone
45:38uh while everyone else was bleeding? We
45:40didn't You mean back in back in May,
45:42when all like when we thought we flushed
45:44all the crap down the toilet, and all
45:46the leverage and all the degen was kind
45:49of flushed out of the system, and
45:50Bitcoin dropped to what? Definitely
45:52under 20k. ETH dropped to like triple
45:54digits. 800. Yeah, right. Mhm. Uh
45:58you would have thought Alameda would
45:59have gotten flushed out in that whole
46:02process, right?
46:04Another degen hedge fund, like Three
46:06Arrows
46:06Everyone got addicted to leverage in in
46:082021, and so everyone that was on
46:11leverage, Alameda,
46:13was supposed to get flushed out, yet
46:14Alameda didn't. Why didn't Why didn't
46:17Alameda get flushed out? So, again, this
46:19is just speculation, but this Lucas
46:21Nuzzi guy throws in a very good thread
46:23of some on-chain snooping that we'll go
46:25ahead and read out here.
46:26And he begins and says, "I found
46:28evidence that FTX might have
46:30provided a massive bailout for Alameda
46:32in Q2, which came which now came back to
46:35haunt them. Uh 40 days ago, 100 173
46:38million FTT tokens worth over 4 billion
46:41USD became active on chain, and a rabbit
46:43hole appeared." And so, this is the
46:44rabbit hole that Lucas goes down. "That
46:46day, September 8th, over 8.6 billion
46:48dollars of FTT was moved on chain. That
46:51was by far the largest daily move of FTT
46:53in the token's existence, and one of the
46:54largest ERC-20 daily moves we've ever
46:56recorded at CoinMetrics." Oh, if this
46:58guy works at CoinMetrics, he's Yeah, oh,
46:59he does. Yeah, he's He's a great great
47:01snoop. Um
47:03Uh tweet three, "I went through all the
47:04transfers that happened that day using
47:06CoinMetrics Atlas and ranked them. I
47:08found a partic a peculiar transaction
47:10that interacted with a contract from the
47:11FTT ICO. This 2019 contract
47:14automatically released 173 million FTT
47:17tokens from the token's ICO address. Uh
47:19the recipient of the 4.2 billion dollars
47:22worth of FTT tokens was no one but
47:24Alameda Research. So, what? Question
47:26mark. Alameda and FTX were intrinsically
47:28connected from day one, and Alameda
47:29obviously participated in the FTX ICO,
47:32but what happened next was interesting.
47:34Alameda then sent the entire balance to
47:36the address of the deployer of the FTT
47:39ERC-20, which was controlled by someone
47:41at FTX. In other words, Alameda
47:43auto-vested 4.2 billion dollars of FTT
47:45just to immediately send it back to FTX.
47:49Here's what I think happened.
47:50Alameda, as a conclusion of this,
47:52Alameda blew up in Q2 along with Three
47:54Arrows Capital and others. It only
47:56survived because it was able to secure
47:57funding from FTX using the collateral of
48:01the 172 million FTT tokens that was
48:03guaranteed to vest 4 months later. Once
48:06vested, all tokens were sent back as
48:07repayment. Remember, the FTT ICO
48:10contract vests automatically. Had FTX
48:12let Alameda implode in May, their
48:14collapse would have ensured the
48:15subsequent liquidation of all FTT tokens
48:17vested in September. It would have been
48:19terrible for FTX, so they found a way to
48:21avoid the scenario. Before you go on,
48:23David, so what he's saying is the theory
48:26of how Alameda survived Mhm. uh past
48:30Three Arrows Capital and the big blowup
48:31of all of the the leveraged margin uh
48:33funds that were taking undue risk, which
48:35Alameda is probably part of that cohort,
48:37um was they got funding from FTX using
48:44FTT tokens. And remember, that is the
48:46loyalty token pseudo equity asset of
48:49FTX.
48:51Um which which I I believe entitles FTT
48:54owners to some portion of of trading
48:56fees, something like this. So, it's like
48:57this weird pseudo equity thing that's
48:59supposed to
49:00go up in proxy with uh the value of FTX.
49:03That's the only reason they survived.
49:05So, they would have been blown out of
49:07the water like all of the rest if it
49:09wasn't for Daddy FTX that um lent them
49:13some funds based on the value of FTT
49:17tokens. It's like a huge self-dealing
49:20uh kind of
49:22I don't know.
49:23Um
49:24I
49:25shady shady practice here.
49:27Mhm. Right. And I'm I'm assuming this
49:30this might be speculation on my part,
49:31but just to understand this,
49:33uh Alameda
49:35uh had FTT tokens vesting, 4.2 billion
49:38dollars FTT vesting. So, they had that,
49:40but they didn't have that available. So,
49:42and they needed money to not blow up.
49:44And so, I'm assuming
49:47FTX sent Alameda like dollars
49:51under the contract I might be
49:53speculating here under the contract that
49:54they that FTX will get FTT tokens that
49:57Alameda will vest in the future. And
49:59then when Alameda did vest the FTT
50:02tokens in the future, they immediately
50:03sent them to FTX.
50:05And so, I'm assuming that those were the
50:06customer deposits that people need to
50:08fact-check me on this. The the customer
50:10deposits that that created the hole in
50:13FTX that we see today were the was the
50:15money that was sent to Alameda so
50:18Alameda wouldn't blow up. And Alameda
50:21signed an agreement with FTX to give
50:23them their FTT tokens once they vested.
50:26I think that is what's going on. Does
50:27that make sense?
50:29Yeah, it does. Uh let's continue. Mhm.
50:32Uh okay. Uh I'll go on to uh tweets.
50:35Let's see. Uh yeah, tweet number seven.
50:37The timing makes sense. Alameda and FTX
50:39essentially put all the chips on the
50:40table in Q2 and use that cash to bail
50:43others out. This solidified FTX's image
50:45as a solvent and responsible
50:47institution, which helped FTT's price.
50:49And that honestly, that's what we were
50:51saying on Bankless Front. That's like,
50:53"Yo, like
50:53Yesterday our speculation No, like for
50:55the past like 6 months. Like FTX bought
50:58BlockFi. They bought like
51:00Sam Bankman-Fried won the bear market
51:02because FTX was so solvent and so
51:05profitable that it was able to buy up
51:07all the blood. This is what everyone was
51:09saying. Yeah, they looked like the
51:10responsible player. The responsible
51:12players left were like, you know, of
51:13course like you know, Gemini they're
51:15doing fine. Kraken's doing fine. But the
51:16big the responsibles with deep pockets
51:18were like uh
51:20Coinbase, Brian Armstrong.
51:22Uh but they weren't in acquisition mode.
51:24And Binance and and SBF. Mhm. And
51:27Binance and SBF were kind of the bailout
51:29kings consolidating all of these things.
51:31And they they looked pretty clean.
51:33Alameda looked like
51:35looked like the fund that didn't blow
51:36up. Right. Right?
51:38Exactly. You know, even even in these
51:40chaotic market conditions, but it looks
51:42like maybe they did. Right. And that was
51:44the start of
51:46SBF using depositor funds, trading some
51:49FTT type tokens.
51:52The commingling kind of like continued
51:54there cuz he didn't want
51:57Alameda to go under Right. at that point
51:59in time.
51:59Right.
52:00Yeah, so this is this is why the price
52:01of FTT was so important to Alameda
52:03research. They were like, "We'll buy it
52:04all at $22." Guess what it's at right
52:06now, Ryan.
52:08Uh I'm going to look. Are we talking
52:10about FTT tokens?
52:11FTT tokens.
52:13Okay, last time I looked it was
52:14five. Yeah.
52:17Yeah, three it's 310 on your chart. It's
52:19220 $2.25
52:22on FTX. Look at this. Look at this
52:24chart. This is This is post um Is this
52:27the market this most recent candle here?
52:29Is this the market figuring out about um
52:32what I Yeah, that no one's coming to
52:33save FTT. Yeah.
52:35I mean, this is what what what the chat
52:37is saying right now. Mhm. Um By the way,
52:39should I be using something other than
52:41CoinGecko for for like time
52:43you should. But it's it's it's I think
52:45it's I find it endearing, Ryan, that
52:46you're not a charter.
52:49Yeah. Um
52:51Okay, so back back into the back into
52:53the Lucas thread just to finish this
52:54thing off. The Alameda bailout likely
52:56put a dent on FTX's balance sheet to the
52:58point where it was no longer solvent.
53:00This would be fine if the price of FTT
53:02didn't collapse and a bank run would
53:04ensue. This is why Alameda tried to
53:05their best to protect FTT's price. Uh
53:08and then it does continue. And then
53:11here's where things get crazier. There's
53:12a chance the folks from Binance knew
53:14about this arrangement between FTX and
53:16Alameda. An opportunity emerged. This is
53:18where we're kind of like getting into
53:19the idea that CZ was a mastermind
53:22playing 4D chess, which he when he made
53:25his memo was like, "No, we I'm not a 4D
53:28chess mastermind. I'm just a guy making
53:30deals."
53:31But if you believe that CZ is a 4D chess
53:33playing mastermind, you might be into
53:35this. Uh so, there's a chance the folks
53:36from Binance knew about this arrangement
53:38between FTX and Alameda. An opportunity
53:39emerged. As large holders of FTT, they
53:42could start deliberately tanking the
53:44market to force FTX to face a liquidity
53:46crunch, which is ultimately what
53:47happened in the last 48 hours. Lo and
53:49behold, Binance comes to FTX's rescue.
53:52Did CZ just walk out with one of his
53:54largest competitors at the expense of a
53:55relatively large FTT bag, which he was
53:57going to unwind anyways? Huge if true.
54:00And so then
54:01the all of the this right is basically
54:0324 hours later, 21 hours. Uh 4 hours ago
54:06Lucas adds to the thread saying,
54:08"Evidence that supports this hypothesis
54:10keeps coming out. FTX US president Brett
54:12Harrison steps down a day before the
54:15September 20th transfer of FTT tokens."
54:18And speculates that maybe he wasn't on
54:19board with a transaction that might look
54:21like outright fraud.
54:23Wow. Okay, so I think the the base of
54:25this theory checks out. The The last
54:27part I'm not sure that checks out is
54:28this all part of uh CZ's 4D chess move
54:32to take out FTX. I mean, I think part of
54:34that could be true, but um
54:37I mean, this doesn't serve the interests
54:38of Binance or CZ if they walk away from
54:41this deal.
54:43Crypto prices are down real bad. This
54:45sets the industry back by 18 to 24
54:47months. We take a major black eye with
54:50regulators. Like that's not in CZ's and
54:52Binance's interest. No. Am I wrong about
54:54that? Yeah, I think that's right. None
54:57of us want that to happen. Right. Yeah.
54:59I mean, even even kind of like
55:01shark business motivated CZ, if that if
55:04that's your model of him,
55:06he wouldn't want that to happen either.
55:07Right. And and just to tie this thread
55:09off, we'll go we'll skip to tweet number
55:1114, the very last one, and then click
55:13the tweet that that is retweeting.
55:15It's because that that tweet is
55:17retweeting SBF saying SBF
55:20"Rotating a few FTX wallets today,
55:22mostly non-circulating. We do this
55:24periodically. Might be a few more
55:25coming. Won't have any effect." So, he's
55:27just saying, "Hey, we're doing some
55:28wallet stuff. The FTX exchange is doing
55:30some wallet stuff."
55:32And this was the transfer of FTT tokens
55:35to Alameda.
55:36And so, this is this is what that was.
55:38And so, he was on Twitter saying, "Hey,
55:39we're going to send some FTT tokens
55:40around. Normal operations. Nothing to
55:43look Don't look beyond the curtain." Uh
55:45so, how long ago was that? That was in
55:47September 28th.
55:48Um
55:49Yeah.
55:50Crazy. Guys, uh there's more to talk
55:52about. We got to talk about some more of
55:53the contagion. I I think we want to talk
55:55about like the emotions in the market.
55:57Like the the market reaction
55:58the the contagion is so crazy. Ryan, 10%
56:02of Multicoin Capital had their their
56:04fund on FTX. And so, that's a fund that
56:08is related to all of their investments.
56:09And that's not just like the contagion
56:11conversation is huge.
56:12All right. Well, uh don't jump too far
56:13ahead of us cuz David we got to it's a
56:15bear market. We have to pay for the
56:17show.
56:19I Guys, we'll be right back. We'll talk
56:21about all this. Talk about Solana a
56:22little bit more. Maybe talk about some
56:23of the the regulation as well. But
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59:00Okay, guys, we're back. We got to talk
59:02about some of the contagion. Talk about
59:04some of the response from around the
59:05space. There's also been some breaking
59:07news coming out of Binance that we we
59:10want to cover. It's just a tweet. New
59:12tweet just dropped. Maybe nothing
59:13breaking from this.
59:14just dropped.
59:15Yeah, um I think before we get to that
59:17Binance tweet, another thing I was
59:18reading in the chat chat logs during
59:21during the break here,
59:22and people were upset about the Nexo
59:24commercial that we just put on. Um
59:27Let me let me just comment on that,
59:28guys. So, um
59:31I have used
59:32crypto bank this a confession time? I
59:34have used crypto banks and exchanges in
59:36the past, including centralized lending
59:37companies.
59:38Um not very much, mostly just to test.
59:42Um Nexo has been among those. So is
59:44Celsius. So is BlockFi.
59:47I had my funds
59:49um
59:50Like I'm never getting my funds out of
59:51Celsius. Um
59:54just to test, right? Um Nexo is a
59:57company that came out of the you know
1:00:01three
1:00:01Capital contagion. Three Arrows Capital
1:00:03contagion. Uh they seemed strong.
1:00:06Okay? They seemed like they were in a
1:00:07place to be able to weather the storm.
1:00:11But I just want to emphasize that
1:00:13we have no idea if it's a centralized
1:00:16exchange, if it's a crypto bank, if it's
1:00:19a lending and borrowing facility.
1:00:21Neither David nor myself know for sure
1:00:24whether it's solvent.
1:00:27I don't know if Wells Fargo is solvent.
1:00:29I don't know if Chase is solvent. I
1:00:31don't know if the banks I use in my
1:00:32everyday life are solvent. So this is a
1:00:34risk anytime you give up your private
1:00:38keys and custody it with a third party.
1:00:41It's a risk if you have funds in
1:00:42Coinbase right now. There is a risk.
1:00:45I trust Coinbase. I trust Gemini. But I
1:00:48don't I do the um
1:00:51public bathroom thing. I don't keep my
1:00:53funds in there. I go in I'm in and out,
1:00:55okay? And so uh I just want to make it
1:00:57clear that
1:00:59we
1:01:00are not sure
1:01:02where the next contagion to happen is.
1:01:05Um we sign these sponsors kind of like 3
1:01:08months in advance. And so we have to
1:01:10finish our commitment with Nexo. We'll
1:01:12definitely be reevaluating what we do
1:01:15with centralized companies in the
1:01:17future. Um
1:01:18and um
1:01:19as far as we know, everything's fine
1:01:21with Nexo, but like we don't know for
1:01:23sure. And this is the beauty of DeFi.
1:01:25Whenever possible, guys, we're going to
1:01:27put sponsors in front of you that are
1:01:29100%
1:01:31DeFi aligned and 100% bankless tools.
1:01:34But sometimes they won't be, you know?
1:01:35And so Nexo is an example of like you
1:01:38can use it, choose cautiously. Um I
1:01:41would recommend not keeping a lot of
1:01:43your funds on exchanges at this point in
1:01:45time uh in general. And so just if you
1:01:48ever choose to do that, just enter it
1:01:49with caution. Small part of your
1:01:51portfolio. Right. And we all we all have
1:01:52to remind ourselves that like
1:01:53banklessness is a spectrum. Uh some
1:01:56people are not ready to take on private
1:01:58keys. Uh that is also a risk that I
1:02:00think if you're watching this live
1:02:02stream, you're probably ready to take on
1:02:03that risk, but many other people are not
1:02:05ready to take on that risk. Um so
1:02:07they're all tools. Uh and we consider
1:02:10them all. I mean my dad, David, he's
1:02:12like I think it it's a greater risk for
1:02:14like
1:02:15some people, like my dad,
1:02:17Yeah. to custody his own private keys
1:02:19Yeah. and like risk losing it.
1:02:21Uh versus holding on somewhere like
1:02:22Coinbase, for example. So uh we have to
1:02:25take that into account. Okay, what is
1:02:27this tweet from Binance that just
1:02:28dropped?
1:02:30Uh okay, sorry. Um we'll we'll get to
1:02:32the charts later.
1:02:34If you need to learn how to use
1:02:35TradingView, dude.
1:02:38Okay, he's fine. It's never failed me.
1:02:39Yeah, okay. All right. Uh back back to
1:02:41Binance. Binance just tweet tweeted this
1:02:43out. Uh
1:02:44new Binance just dropped. Uh as a result
1:02:46of corporate due diligence as well as
1:02:48the latest news reports regarding
1:02:49mishandled customer funds and alleged US
1:02:52agency investigations, we have decided
1:02:54that we will not pursue the potential
1:02:55acquisition of ftx.com. That dropped 7
1:02:58minutes ago, almost already has 10,000
1:03:00likes.
1:03:01Uh well, that's that.
1:03:03No one's coming to save us. That's
1:03:07So in crypto when when banks fail,
1:03:09there's no bailout for us. We don't get
1:03:11bailouts, yeah.
1:03:12We don't get bailouts, and that's what
1:03:13we signed up for, isn't it?
1:03:16No bailouts.
1:03:17Yeah.
1:03:18Uh that's that's what we signed up for.
1:03:19Yeah, we don't get bailouts. That's the
1:03:21rules. It sounded like you were
1:03:23contemplating that. You're like
1:03:25I was just I was just like, well it is
1:03:28if you're a centralized thing
1:03:30you get bailout sooner than a DeFi
1:03:32thing. No one ever is ever going to bail
1:03:35out MakerDAO or Uniswap or Aave. Uh
1:03:39What I'm saying is when I say bailouts,
1:03:41it's not like a a private company
1:03:42bailout. Like that makes sense to me.
1:03:44That's a business decision. I think when
1:03:46people think of of bailouts in the way I
1:03:48just used it, it's like a 2008 financial
1:03:51crisis bailout where you socialize your
1:03:53losses
1:03:54So okay, uh socialize your losses like
1:03:56printing money, right? We printed money
1:03:57to save the banks in 2008. You know what
1:04:00Remember Ryan like 2 weeks ago we were
1:04:01talking about how FTX was uh teasing
1:04:04dabbling with a new stablecoin? Yeah.
1:04:07They were going to mint their own
1:04:08stablecoin and bail themselves out cuz
1:04:09they knew they had a hole in the balance
1:04:11sheet.
1:04:11that. Don't tell me that.
1:04:12going to do. They had insolvency. They
1:04:15were going to mint their own stablecoin
1:04:17and print their stablecoin.
1:04:19David, all this is coming out. Doesn't
1:04:20Okay, so did it seem weird when we were
1:04:22doing that live stream with SBF and and
1:04:25for he's like 2 weeks here now that you
1:04:26think about Now you look back on it,
1:04:28right? Did I we talked to SBF before.
1:04:31Did he seem like
1:04:32off his game? Yes. Nervous to you? Did
1:04:35he seem like And everyone saw it.
1:04:37Everyone saw it that like Sam felt
1:04:40cornered. And like on we you and I were
1:04:42both like, you know, props to Sam for
1:04:44like being public and engaging these
1:04:45conversations publicly. Uh but like I
1:04:49think he was like running out of tools
1:04:52in the tool belt. Like he was running
1:04:53out of ammo.
1:04:54Well, imagine if you like imagine the
1:04:56stress that he'd be under Yeah. at that
1:04:58point in time. Just like the pure right
1:05:00and like um he just seemed very
1:05:02distracted. Uh there was like
1:05:05a decent amount of kind of like
1:05:07movement, jittering, that sort of thing.
1:05:08Mhm. And now that I look back on that
1:05:10conversation um which by the way, some
1:05:13people have said kind of kicked this
1:05:15whole thing off. I don't know if that's
1:05:16true or not, but um
1:05:18it was a different Sam than the Sam we
1:05:20talked to.
1:05:20Yes. I don't know, back in
1:05:22different Sam. last year, whatever. Um
1:05:25all right. So let's talk about
1:05:26contagion. Oh, yeah. What's What's
1:05:28What's that? Cryp- Crypto Condom. Who
1:05:30This is actually a Twitter account that
1:05:31we've actually used before. So despite
1:05:32the uh the uh less than professional
1:05:35name, uh we don't really care about
1:05:36professionalism. He's a good good
1:05:37Twitter account. And he goes, "Calling
1:05:39all researchers, thread incoming, but
1:05:41this contagion This is the contagion we
1:05:42know of so far. Please provide info in
1:05:44the replies if you know of any other so
1:05:45I can compile and share. Um a lot more
1:05:47contagion will come out. Entities with
1:05:48FTX and Alameda exposure will be short
1:05:51targets. Uh and so he goes through a
1:05:53list of all uh entities or things that
1:05:56are should be considered when we talk
1:05:57about contagion. Uh Ku- KuCoin has some
1:06:00exposure. Galaxy Digital for 76 million.
1:06:04Uh Solana is $6 billion market cap right
1:06:06now. I'm pretty sure that's less. Uh
1:06:08FTT, the token, is is now less than $4.
1:06:10It's a little bit above two. Uh Stargate
1:06:13uh allegedly bought a bunch of FTT
1:06:15tokens. Voyager. Ooh, Voyager again. Uh
1:06:18FTX Series C investors, Jump Capital,
1:06:20Multicoin Wait, what's Multicoin?
1:06:23What happened to Multicoin? Uh they just
1:06:25had a ton of FTX exposure. And in
1:06:28addition to that, we'll talk about this
1:06:29next. They had a lot of assets on FTX
1:06:31itself.
1:06:31Like 10%, right?
1:06:32Yeah, 10% of their funds. So their fund
1:06:34is down 10%.
1:06:35Okay. Aptos had investment from FTX in
1:06:38their Series A. Sui had FTX investment
1:06:40from their Series A. Um Tezos like So
1:06:43all these people what he what this uh
1:06:45Crypto Condom is doing is saying, "Hey,
1:06:46calling all researchers, go investigate
1:06:49these things. Go snoop. Uh go see how
1:06:51bad the contagion is. Um hopefully the
1:06:53cancer isn't that bad, but FTX was at
1:06:56the very epicenter of a lot of just
1:06:58crypto CeFi." Uh
1:07:00Did Did Did you see that that the
1:07:01headline was like uh Tom Brady was like
1:07:03a headline 650 million or something of
1:07:06their their their net worth tied up in
1:07:08FTX? Yeah. And uh related investments.
1:07:11Yeah. Like Tom
1:07:12down on FTX over and over and over
1:07:14again, yeah.
1:07:15FTX Arena or is that going
1:07:17quick comment in the chat. Guys, what's
1:07:18going to happen to FTX US? Uh
1:07:21Uh probably nothing, I think. Two
1:07:23separate entities. And honestly, you
1:07:25have to capitulate. And this is what the
1:07:27other frustrating thing, Ryan, is is
1:07:29about is like FTX US is probably fine
1:07:32because it's a regulated onshore
1:07:34exchange that is not connected to FTX.
1:07:37are separate, right?
1:07:37They are separate, right. And so FTX US
1:07:40is is largely solvent as far as we know
1:07:42in the same way that Coinbase is
1:07:44because of regulations. David David,
1:07:47they're going to need a rebrand after
1:07:48this. Yeah, that's that's for sure.
1:07:50Yeah.
1:07:51I think.
1:07:52Uh this But But when you look at this
1:07:54list, right? It's interesting is we got
1:07:56um
1:07:57nothing really affecting Bitcoin. And
1:07:59then kind of fallout price fallout, like
1:08:01the liquidity slippage.
1:08:03Bitcoin is being liquidated to pay for
1:08:05insolvency, yeah. Nothing really like
1:08:06affecting like the Coinbase of the
1:08:08world. Right. Not too much in the
1:08:10Ethereum community. Which kind of this
1:08:12is a question of like after the dust
1:08:15settles how do we rebuild and what
1:08:17communities come back stronger and
1:08:18faster? Yeah. Like I know we're going to
1:08:20get to this, but um
1:08:22I mean it's been a rough times for
1:08:24Solana. We'll we'll pull up some Solana
1:08:26charts later, but this is what you're
1:08:28talking about. Multicoin Capital hit by
1:08:30FTX collapse. They had 10% of their
1:08:31funds AUM stuck on the exchanges.
1:08:35Wow.
1:08:35Right.
1:08:37What's that mean?
1:08:38The token still exist.
1:08:41No, no, no. Their their funds, their AUM
1:08:44Right. Okay. Samani's What What's
1:08:47Multicoin worth? Billions?
1:08:49yeah. Now I'm at a what? Not Not today,
1:08:51maybe.
1:08:5110% less.
1:08:5210% of that investor funds was locked
1:08:56inside of FTX. We're not talking about
1:08:58like down from all-time high. We're
1:09:00talking about money that's not
1:09:02recoverable. Money that's lost. Right.
1:09:05Just with like the other people
1:09:06This is what I'm I'm confused about.
1:09:07Like Alameda was like this hedge fund
1:09:10that was like playing trading games and
1:09:12and like liquidating people left and
1:09:14right and making a ton of money. And
1:09:16then But like okay, then
1:09:18where's their money? Like where did it
1:09:20go? David, like
1:09:22Who's got all the money? The money went
1:09:23somewhere. Who liquidated Alameda? Kyle
1:09:26Samani didn't know about this.
1:09:28All right. Like he Did you see the tweet
1:09:30that he tweeted out I think is
1:09:32like on a Sunday or Monday.
1:09:34Uh he was like
1:09:36I'm paraphrasing. Ignore the fud. And it
1:09:37just like Also an investor in FTX.
1:09:40Uh so if he doesn't know
1:09:43he's got his his multi-coin funds on
1:09:46FTX, right? And he's part of that kind
1:09:49of inner investor circle of like FTX.
1:09:53I'm not going to lump Solana in this,
1:09:55but FTX and like he should be in the
1:09:57know here. And he's got exposure. Yeah.
1:10:00Uh Galaxy Digital uh reveals $77 million
1:10:04of exposure to FTX in Q3. So these are
1:10:06not only people being hit by contagion,
1:10:08but also creating contagion as well. Uh
1:10:11so when somebody's hit by contagion,
1:10:12they pass along that contagion. What a
1:10:15year for our friend Novo? Yeah, sorry
1:10:17Novo. That's rough. Uh Mike Novogratz.
1:10:20Uh so Frank Chaparro out of the block uh
1:10:22just lists out all the FTX investors who
1:10:24you know spent money on something that
1:10:26is worth significantly less now.
1:10:28BlackRock, Sequoia, Paradigm, Tiger
1:10:30Global, SoftBank, Circle, Multicoin,
1:10:33VanEck.
1:10:34Ontario Pension Fund. This is pension
1:10:36years money in this thing.
1:10:38That's bad.
1:10:40That's That's what triggers the
1:10:41regulators. We don't like that.
1:10:44Jeez, how long is it going to be until
1:10:45pension Do you remember the meme of like
1:10:47the pension funds are coming? That's
1:10:49what's 2000 Oh god. Yeah, so so this is
1:10:51what Vitalik was saying was like, "Hey,
1:10:53uh let's not like try to go for the ETF
1:10:56thing because of stuff like this. Like
1:10:59let's not integrate ourselves with
1:11:01TradFi too soon because
1:11:04uh yeah. Um The C5 regulations are
1:11:06coming, my friend.
1:11:07Right. Big time. Big time. The drums are
1:11:09beating. So here's the tweet. Not only
1:11:11does FTX have the Solana exposure that
1:11:13they have to offload, but they also have
1:11:14led the series A round for both Aptos
1:11:16and Sui. So Aptos and Sui are going to
1:11:18have a hard time keeping their token
1:11:20valuations propped up when they have a
1:11:22persistent seller.
1:11:23Um so there's that. The audacity of
1:11:25leading these seed rounds when you have
1:11:27like if what really happened is
1:11:29Alameda's like went broke Right. And
1:11:32like and you're still doing this?
1:11:35Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
1:11:38This is uh FTX US saying it's not
1:11:40impacted by the liquidity crisis. Yeah,
1:11:41separate entities. Separate entities.
1:11:43but it has got to be impacted, right?
1:11:45Everyone's got to be withdrawing from
1:11:46FTX US as well. I mean, like I wouldn't
1:11:48keep my funds in there. Yeah.
1:11:51This is back to like the sad versus mad
1:11:53kind of thing.
1:11:53here are the crypto Twitter takes. Yeah.
1:11:55Mhm. What's this one from Fubar? This is
1:11:58uh 0xfoobar. Real talk, the And this
1:12:00these are the sort of the takes that I
1:12:01like woke up to this morning, Ryan. And
1:12:03so I was like, "Oh we have to
1:12:05clean this up." Uh so Fubar says, "Real
1:12:08talk, the FTX news is the saddest I've
1:12:10felt about the industry since joining.
1:12:12Previous blow-ups were either obviously
1:12:13failed mechanisms or prop shops with a
1:12:15series of bad bets. That's Terra Luna
1:12:17and then Three Arrows Capital. Even
1:12:19Celsius gave sufficient warning with
1:12:20their fake yield products."
1:12:22Uh saying like well the writing was all
1:12:23the wall on the wall for Celsius. Uh
1:12:26uh where And he continues, "Whereas SBF
1:12:28and company had a clear ride to the top,
1:12:29one of the best products around, doing
1:12:31incredible revenue on honest business
1:12:33alone. Everyone knew about the Alameda
1:12:35commingling, but it was assumed it was a
1:12:36small blot on otherwise successful
1:12:38business. And that, Ryan, is the part
1:12:40where I realized that like this isn't
1:12:43just like uh popcorn time where you
1:12:45watch billionaire war games happen. Uh
1:12:48FTX, one of the best products around,
1:12:50created a ton of value, made useful
1:12:53services and useful products for many
1:12:55many people. And then because they
1:12:58leveraged their customers' deposits and
1:13:00they took risky bets, those products and
1:13:03services will be destroyed. This is a
1:13:05capital destruction event. You know you
1:13:07know the metaphor of like uh the broken
1:13:09window of capitalism where like if you
1:13:10go and broke break a window, do you
1:13:12create economic activity because you go
1:13:14and and spend money at the repair shop
1:13:15and you spend money for the contractor?
1:13:17This is that fallacy. Like if you break
1:13:19the biggest one of the biggest
1:13:20exchanges, this is a capital destruction
1:13:23event. The world is off in a worse off
1:13:25place because we do not have access to
1:13:27the good products and services that FTX
1:13:30produced
1:13:31as a result of this. Um and then Fubar
1:13:33continues and goes, "Then the lying, the
1:13:35cheating, the stealing comes out. That
1:13:36level of losses doesn't happen on
1:13:38accident. Why the need for such greed?
1:13:41Yes. Why? Why the need for such greed?
1:13:43Why? He's saying like SBF won.
1:13:45He won. He made one of the biggest
1:13:47exchanges in the shortest amount of
1:13:48time, but he kept on rolling the dice
1:13:51and he kept on
1:13:52Billionaire status like confirmed.
1:13:54Right. Um uh But that wasn't enough.
1:13:57Yeah. And I think he follow he finishes
1:13:58that and says, "I got tricked." And I
1:14:01think that is what a lot of people in
1:14:02this industry uh feels like. You want to
1:14:05read this one?
1:14:06Yeah, this is from Kobe. Um speaking of
1:14:09uh getting tricked. By the way, we're
1:14:10doing a uh a Bankless plus up only live
1:14:14stream. All right.
1:14:15Never thought possible. Therapy session
1:14:17live stream. Therapy session, yeah. Cope
1:14:19cope room. Definitely We're coming
1:14:20together at uh 10:00 p.m. Eastern
1:14:23tonight. So come back for that. It's
1:14:25going to be a different flavor. I mean,
1:14:26in this episode we're going through the
1:14:27day's events. In that episode, I don't
1:14:29know what we're going to be talking
1:14:30about. It's uh up only, so it could be
1:14:32anything. But Kobe's saying Arthur uh
1:14:35can't do a show today. I guess he's
1:14:36talking about Arthur Hayes. I'm going
1:14:37back to bed. My decade of crypto, this
1:14:39exchange rug is by far the worst ever.
1:14:42Almost no time to react and lots of
1:14:44long-term and smart crypto people
1:14:46impacted by it. Almost no time to react.
1:14:50This is exchange rug is by far the worst
1:14:53ever. All right, so he's saying this is
1:14:54worse than Three Arrows Capital. It's
1:14:56worse than Luna Terra. It's worse than
1:14:59Mount Gox. It's worse than all of them.
1:15:02What do you think about this take? Do
1:15:03you feel feel like this is worse? When
1:15:05Kobe says that this is the worst rug of
1:15:09all time, that is something to sit and
1:15:11reflect upon. I don't think he's just
1:15:13shooting from the hip with this take. I
1:15:15don't think Kobe does that. When Kobe
1:15:16says that this is the worst of all time,
1:15:19and he's been in crypto longer than you
1:15:20and I have, Ryan. He's seen it all. He's
1:15:22been since before Mount Gox. And he's
1:15:24saying that this is the worst of all
1:15:26time.
1:15:26So I don't know if it'll have quite the
1:15:28impact in terms of total supply or like
1:15:31total market cap like I mean, percentage
1:15:34of market cap destroyed. But I think in
1:15:36you know
1:15:38I guess there's one element of um
1:15:40I think people thought that they could
1:15:41trust FTX.
1:15:42Right. That was like He was putting his
1:15:45ads all over San Francisco, bro.
1:15:47Yeah. He drove he saw sports arena.
1:15:49Yeah, he bought a goddamn arena. That's
1:15:51the That's the problem here. Yeah, I
1:15:53mean if you were doing the algo
1:15:54stablecoin thing, right? That's one
1:15:55thing. You kind of like you're doing
1:15:57some
1:15:58back in 2013, Mount Gox, I mean, what do
1:16:00you expect? We're like three years into
1:16:02this crypto experiment. It's a magic to
1:16:04get Like what do you expect? Right. Uh
1:16:06this is different. I mean, this was
1:16:08again the professionals who are supposed
1:16:10to be doing the right thing here.
1:16:11the guy that was in DC.
1:16:14This is uh FTX
1:16:15level capital of irresponsibility and he
1:16:17was also lobbying. He was our interface
1:16:20to the regulators.
1:16:21Yeah.
1:16:22He knew that. Today was the most
1:16:23depressing day I've seen. This is Tom
1:16:26Shaughnessy of Delphi Digital, so take
1:16:28that into account where like Delphi Labs
1:16:30had a significant exposure to Terra
1:16:32Luna.
1:16:33And so that's what Tom's like
1:16:35Bad day. Talk about a bad day. And he is
1:16:37saying that this day is the most
1:16:39depressing day he's seen in his three
1:16:40crypto bear markets. Uh oh wait, no.
1:16:42That's Tom That's I mixed up Toms. I
1:16:44mixed up Toms. That's not right.
1:16:45Wrong Tom? Wrong Tom. No, no. This is
1:16:47Are you sure?
1:16:47that's Tom from Delphi. Oh, that is That
1:16:49is Tom. That is Tom. Okay, never mind.
1:16:50Yeah, you did You got the right Tom.
1:16:52Uh he said it's the most depressing day.
1:16:54If affected, you will recover. Um
1:16:56outside of the toxicity, remember that
1:16:58there are smart high-integrity people
1:17:00building the space forward. David, um
1:17:03we will recover from this.
1:17:04Yeah, we always will. I'm not worried
1:17:06about crypto like in the long run. But
1:17:09um
1:17:10yeah, I think a lot of people got hurt
1:17:11today. Uh the most depressing day. I
1:17:14guess
1:17:15I don't know. I understand why a lot of
1:17:16people feel that way. Um particularly
1:17:18those affected. Um this is uh Larry
1:17:20Cermak from The Block who's uh also
1:17:22replying to uh a crypto anon account. Uh
1:17:26the a cat-themed crypto anon account. If
1:17:28you want to scroll up, Ryan.
1:17:29Uh assuming FTX funds are gone, this is
1:17:31the biggest one-day loss in cat's life.
1:17:34You need to do it in cat voice, David. I
1:17:35don't know what a cat voice is, Ryan.
1:17:37Uh the maybe the saddest part is cat may
1:17:40long no longer sponsor streamers, art
1:17:42software, open source projects cuz cat
1:17:45lost a million dollars uh in year. Money
1:17:47was always number. Cat will still live
1:17:49in nice hotels. It's okay. Uh and Larry
1:17:51Cermak from The Block says, "Biggest
1:17:53one-day loss for me as well. Funny since
1:17:56I actively said people should would
1:17:57withdraw even if sub 1% chance that FTX
1:18:00would be insolvent, but I was too lazy
1:18:02to do it myself and act when act and
1:18:04actually naively trusted Sam and
1:18:06multiple employees who all said
1:18:07everything was above board. We'll back
1:18:10bounce back back We'll bounce back,
1:18:12cat." So the These are our people. These
1:18:14are the the crypto Twitter tribes. These
1:18:15are the people that got duped by Sam's
1:18:18like air of trustworthiness. People that
1:18:21knew better and will admit that they
1:18:23knew better, but they were still
1:18:25um smashed by this. Right. And this is
1:18:28where I have to say it's like um
1:18:30uh
1:18:31there again, we said this about kind of
1:18:33Luna Terra. There should be no grave
1:18:34dancing about this.
1:18:36Uh I mean
1:18:38it you are just fortunate that something
1:18:40like this didn't happen to you. You may
1:18:41think it's cuz you're smarter. You may
1:18:43think it's because uh you listened to
1:18:44the right advice. You went Bankless
1:18:46sooner. All of those things can be
1:18:47partially true, but also I mean like we
1:18:50really mean it when we say
1:18:52crypto is risky. It's not for everyone,
1:18:55right? You could lose what you put in.
1:18:57That can happen to you on this crypto
1:19:00journey. And um we can try to minimize
1:19:02our risk in lots of ways, but I think
1:19:05it's important that uh
1:19:07we
1:19:08just remain compassionate to those on
1:19:10the journey that just got wrecked today.
1:19:13Uh as we take some learning lessons from
1:19:15this.
1:19:15own. Yeah, so here here's Sensei
1:19:17Capital. He's saying, "Looking to sell
1:19:19my FTX balance. DM me if interested.
1:19:21Serious offers only." cuz his balance is
1:19:23a million dollars plus. So this guy had
1:19:24a million dollars on the exchange and
1:19:26he's taking offers for somebody to
1:19:28you know, give himself pennies on the
1:19:30dollar.
1:19:31Here's Eric Eric Connor retweeting a an
1:19:34article that's talking about FTX's
1:19:36excuse me, Sam Bankman-Fried's loss in
1:19:38net worth. So Sam Bankman-Fried's 53%
1:19:41stake in FTX was worth about 6.2 billion
1:19:43dollars before Tuesday's takeover, which
1:19:45is now happening. So that actually might
1:19:47be worth zero according to Bloomberg's
1:19:49Billionaires Index based on that funding
1:19:51round and subsequent performance of
1:19:53publicly traded crypto companies. FTX
1:19:55wasn't Sam Bankman-Fried's most valuable
1:19:56asset though. His trading crypto trading
1:19:58firm Alameda Research, which I believe
1:20:00he owned to 90% of Ryan,
1:20:02contributed 7.4 billion dollars to his
1:20:04personal for fortune, which might also
1:20:06be at zero now.
1:20:08The Bloomberg Wealth Index assumes
1:20:10existing FTX investors including SBF
1:20:12will be completely wiped out by
1:20:13Binance's bailout and the root of the
1:20:15exchange's problem stem from Alameda. As
1:20:17a result, both FTX and Alameda are given
1:20:19a $1 value. Might as well call it zero.
1:20:22That leaves SBF's net worth to be about
1:20:251 billion dollars down from 15.6 billion
1:20:27dollars heading into Tuesday. The 94%
1:20:30loss is the biggest one-day collapse
1:20:31ever among billionaires tracked by
1:20:33Bloomberg.
1:20:35Great vote of confidence for crypto.
1:20:37Still still got a billion dollars
1:20:38though.
1:20:39Uh for now. For now. I mean, we'll see.
1:20:42There could be lots of legal fallout
1:20:43from this of course. Um
1:20:45This is
1:20:46This is tweet. What are we looking at
1:20:48here?
1:20:48Yeah, so there's
1:20:50this section of tweets that we have next
1:20:51is all about the Solana ecosystem
1:20:53because Solana is caught up in the
1:20:54crossfire.
1:20:55at the chart real quick for Solana?
1:20:57up in the chart you can do okay.
1:20:58there. Yeah.
1:21:00CoinGecko.
1:21:01Ooh. Eat a chart. I'm using CoinGecko.
1:21:03Yeah. All right guys, sorry I suck.
1:21:06He just told the chat to eat it.
1:21:08I'm sorry. It's me I suck. All right.
1:21:11What are we looking at here? Should I do
1:21:127-day? Uh yeah, might as well do 7-days.
1:21:14Scroll down a little bit so we can see
1:21:15the
1:21:16the down badness in the percentage. Um
1:21:20Scroll down and it'll show you how how
1:21:21bad it's down over 7 days. Oof, 60 down
1:21:2360% in 7 days. This is just like
1:21:26association. SBF was a big Solana
1:21:28investor. Remember SBF's uh I beg. Sell
1:21:30me sell me all your SOL at $3 and then F
1:21:33off tweet.
1:21:34And so you know, By the way, if anyone
1:21:36ever says that to you just for the for
1:21:38future bear markets when you get you
1:21:39know, all drunk on kind of the upward
1:21:41price movements. If anyone ever says
1:21:43something like that, just run. Head to
1:21:45the exit.
1:21:46That is he does it $3. So he's still up
1:21:495x on all of that SOL that he
1:21:52Yeah. Well, he's he's he's liquidating
1:21:54it.
1:21:55It's
1:21:57Do you know in this in this Solana
1:21:58community too, there's some massive
1:22:00unlocks that are happening like
1:22:01concurrently with this?
1:22:03Like massive investor unlocks.
1:22:05Yeah. Hang on. The chat's saying SBF has
1:22:08filed for bankruptcy. I'm going to
1:22:09Google search that. What?
1:22:12Guys, give us a
1:22:13give us a link if you can. Uh no, I
1:22:15don't think that's right. I don't think
1:22:16that's right.
1:22:17Okay. Well, I mean
1:22:19we'll see. I don't think that's right.
1:22:20All right. So back to SOL community.
1:22:24Solana is just like caught in the
1:22:25crossfire, right? Because like
1:22:26Multicoin's down bad has a bunch of SOL
1:22:28on the balance sheet. FTX is down bad
1:22:30has a bunch of SOL on the balance sheet.
1:22:31Sam himself personally probably owns
1:22:33SOL.
1:22:34So there's a bunch of just like sell
1:22:35pressure for Solana. And so
1:22:39that's unfortunate for Solana. However,
1:22:41Ryan,
1:22:43the I think there's a big question right
1:22:44now is is Solana mutually sufficiently
1:22:46independent from all of the people that
1:22:49own SOL
1:22:51and will the Solana ecosystem survive?
1:22:53Yeah. I I think yes. Yes, I think it
1:22:56will survive. Yeah, I think I think
1:22:57Solana will It will take a long time to
1:22:59repair and the price may never like
1:23:02it may take years if ever for it to
1:23:04reach all-time highs. Mhm. Um this is a
1:23:06this is a massive event. I mean, I know
1:23:08a lot of people who are in Solana just
1:23:10because
1:23:11SBF supported them Solana so much. It
1:23:13was kind of like SBF's pet
1:23:17you know, layer one. Right. Um what's
1:23:19this?
1:23:20Uh so this is the data nerd saying 47
1:23:22million SOL tokens, which is almost a
1:23:24billion dollars
1:23:26at the previous price. So it's less now.
1:23:28Will be unstaked by the end of epoch 370
1:23:32up from 18 million reported earlier. I
1:23:34think this might have already happened
1:23:35by now. But basically like SOL is being
1:23:38unstaked now
1:23:40as the price is going down. A billion
1:23:42dollars unstaked by the end of epoch
1:23:45730. That's like today, right?
1:23:47Uh yes, that's that's today. Can you
1:23:49Ryan 13% of the supply. Yeah.
1:23:52Yeah. Can you open up TradingView
1:23:55and we'll guide you through some charts
1:23:57cuz Ether is about to break through
1:23:59$1,100.
1:24:01Yeah, okay, there's your ETHBTC. Just
1:24:03yeah, type in ETH.
1:24:05Uh ETH and do the Coinbase fourth down.
1:24:08Oh, that's the market cap of ETH.
1:24:11And
1:24:12and then you zoomed in. Okay. So go go
1:24:15back up to the ticker in the top left.
1:24:16We don't want this one.
1:24:18Yeah, type in ETH coin fourth one down
1:24:20ETHUSD Coinbase.
1:24:23Uh One more. One more. There we go.
1:24:25Ooh, yeah, here we go. Okay, so this is
1:24:28new lows for Ether. We'll pull up
1:24:30Bitcoin in a second. So Ether about to
1:24:32break through $1,100. Let's pull up
1:24:35Bitcoin.
1:24:36It's it's new lows. It's not lows lows.
1:24:39Uh Can we just scroll out? Like what is
1:24:41lows lows?
1:24:41go go up to and hit the one hour thing.
1:24:45You guys do you see do you see what I
1:24:47have to deal with when Ryan has to chart
1:24:49it?
1:24:49David is David is giving me real time.
1:24:50You want one day? Give me yeah, give me
1:24:52one day. Yeah, so here we are.
1:24:54And then we can zoom in a little bit to
1:24:55like 2022 just just waiting 2020. Yeah.
1:24:58So yeah, this is this is
1:25:00This is getting down. It's And then
1:25:02okay, so go go back up and see the vol
1:25:04the volume below in the top left corner.
1:25:07You can hit the eyeball of that if you
1:25:09hover a little bit lower a little bit
1:25:10lower.
1:25:11A little bit lower. Uh vol vol right
1:25:14there. Hit the eyeball right there. Bam.
1:25:15Make that go away. Okay, cool. Much
1:25:16prettier. Uh
1:25:18So yeah, so we are getting down to the
1:25:20near the basically the lows of Ether.
1:25:24You want to you want to pick out
1:25:25Bitcoin? Yeah. Someone's also saying uh
1:25:28check Bitcoin check Binance Twitter. I
1:25:30wonder if Hey Dave Dave in the chat. Can
1:25:33you
1:25:34see if CZ or Binance has tweeted
1:25:36anything? Yeah, Binance or Bitcoin
1:25:39below 1,600.
1:25:40That that that is a low. That is a that
1:25:42is a low. That is a low since it crossed
1:25:45that.
1:25:45all-time lows for uh
1:25:48No, right bull market lows. Bull market
1:25:50lows.
1:25:51lows for for Bitcoin for ETH and then we
1:25:53are we've we've exceeded
1:25:56lows. Last last low was I guess around
1:25:58the 1,700s. Mhm. Mhm. And now we're at
1:26:011,600s. Wow. Could you imagine David
1:26:04seeing 10k Bitcoin again?
1:26:05Yeah, that's How low do we go?
1:26:0710k God, strike fear into my heart.
1:26:09close. 50% off. I mean, that's real
1:26:11close. Yeah.
1:26:13You want to Okay, do you want to Can you
1:26:15pull up I'm sorry to do this. Can you
1:26:17pull up ultrasound.money?
1:26:19Oh god. I don't know. Should I? Why?
1:26:22I mean, this is not
1:26:24You should qualify you should qualify
1:26:25this.
1:26:26Uh so we're just burning a ton. Yeah. So
1:26:29there Oh, we know that. I'm just People
1:26:32I put a I put a tweet out I was like oh
1:26:34like ETH is finally ultra sound and Udi
1:26:35Wertheimer was like not now, David. I'm
1:26:37sorry.
1:26:38way, David. I feel that way.
1:26:40nice shining light on the week of week
1:26:44of
1:26:45Yeah, it depends who you are. think this
1:26:47is is is it's okay.
1:26:49pain chart.
1:26:50All right. David David thinks it's okay.
1:26:52I say
1:26:54give it some space. Yeah. Um all right.
1:26:57So what about I guess other crypto
1:26:59prices? Anything else we should we
1:27:01should look at?
1:27:01I think we we can go back to the FTT
1:27:03token, but that's about it.
1:27:04Can I just look at market cap? We are
1:27:06873 billion. So down from a trillion.
1:27:09Big time. I I don't remember seeing it
1:27:11below 900 billion before.
1:27:12I think this might be lows on the market
1:27:16cap crypto market cap.
1:27:17be market cap lows. Yeah. My goodness.
1:27:20Okay. What about regulatory, David?
1:27:22Maybe that's one of the things we should
1:27:24hit.
1:27:24really know too much right now because
1:27:26regulators are like they're like the
1:27:28Fed. They're lagging indicator, not a
1:27:30leading indicator.
1:27:32And so it's like oh sweet, the Feds have
1:27:34finally showed up. Great.
1:27:37I just think the big meta question is is
1:27:41SBF in legal trouble,
1:27:44which we do not know.
1:27:46Okay. So sum this up for us, David.
1:27:49Um
1:27:51I think cuz um
1:27:52I think we're going to close this out on
1:27:53your screen.
1:27:54Yeah.
1:27:56So what happened over the last 24 hours
1:27:59for people late to this or just to to
1:28:01summarize? What what what's happened
1:28:03now? I mean, and by the way, at the
1:28:05beginning of this live stream, we're in
1:28:06a different place than we are now. It
1:28:08does look like Binance has definitively
1:28:11walked away from the deal. So I guess
1:28:14what are the implications? Where are we
1:28:16now?
1:28:17And what what can we look for in the
1:28:19next 24 hours? Um I'm sure Sam and FTX
1:28:23are going to go and solicit other
1:28:25investment.
1:28:27Um
1:28:28I'm not optimistic about anyone else
1:28:31coming to the rescue because like I said
1:28:33earlier, if Binance isn't doing it, then
1:28:35who else is going to? They are the most
1:28:37relevant Tell me what that means for
1:28:38depositors.
1:28:39Even Brian Armstrong was like it doesn't
1:28:41even make sense for us to do it.
1:28:43Depositors
1:28:45maybe there's some fumes left in the
1:28:47tank, but I think there's going to be a
1:28:49moment where SEC CFTC steps in and says
1:28:53all right, we're taking over. Freeze
1:28:55everything. We're going to the courts.
1:28:57And there will be a liquidation event
1:29:00of FTX's remaining assets to to pay off
1:29:03creditors. There's going to be a squeeze
1:29:07to get into the door to get money back.
1:29:10Whether you are an FTX investor trying
1:29:11to get your money back. If you are a
1:29:13depositor into FTX, Um
1:29:16are line to get your money back.
1:29:17Everyone is it's like 2008 Ryan.
1:29:20Everyone is lining up to get whatever
1:29:22remaining funds are available and it's
1:29:24going to go to the court because people
1:29:26are want to get in the front of the line
1:29:28to get paid back first and it's going to
1:29:30be the courts that decide that.
1:29:32And so this is this is the story that
1:29:34when markets break down we end up back
1:29:36in courts. And so that is what's going
1:29:39to happen. I think the most the first
1:29:41thing Ryan that people need to pay
1:29:42attention to is lawyers are going to
1:29:44step in and they're going to start
1:29:45giving their opinions as to whether if
1:29:47you are a customer depositor into
1:29:51FTX, where do you stand in line? Are you
1:29:54first or are you after investors? I
1:29:57think that's the most important
1:29:58information that I could see kind of
1:29:59coming out
1:30:01in the near term. I think that's the
1:30:02thing to pay attention to next. Guys, I
1:30:05um
1:30:06I think that's all right and I don't
1:30:08want to sugarcoat this neither David nor
1:30:10I do. This is this is a pretty big deal.
1:30:13Um
1:30:13This is um
1:30:15This is more than a flesh wound. This is
1:30:17a cannonball to the chest.
1:30:19Yeah. Uh it's going to take a while to
1:30:20recover from this. Yeah. Um So I'll say
1:30:23that. Um on the bright side because you
1:30:26know like don't don't look for for weeks
1:30:29for this these charts to recover. Uh
1:30:31maybe not even
1:30:32months. Uh it could take a a very long
1:30:35time. On the bright side um I think
1:30:37David this could be the final
1:30:39capitulation uh we need out of this out
1:30:43of this bear market. If the I had a
1:30:46feeling I had a feeling there was still
1:30:48some nastiness left. I like nothing
1:30:51quantifiable but like intuition telling
1:30:53tell me it's like whether it's macro or
1:30:54something. I had a feeling we would
1:30:56visit uh triple digit ETH again and like
1:30:59we're on the precipice we're we're we're
1:31:00probably visit that.
1:31:02away. We're going there, okay? You
1:31:04buying? Um double a triple digit?
1:31:07Absolute freakingly.
1:31:08900 or you going to wait for 800? Um
1:31:11I'll probably start 900.
1:31:14Here's the thing. Um
1:31:17A lot of you guys will be tempted to
1:31:18leave right now. Mhm. Right? Throw up
1:31:20your hands in frustration. Even Kobe was
1:31:22like, "Hey, I've been here for a while
1:31:23and like I'm I'm kind of done." All
1:31:25right?
1:31:26If you're still here
1:31:28you're doing it right.
1:31:30Bear markets are the time you make the
1:31:32money. Yeah. Not the bull markets. Those
1:31:35that's the feel good. That's kind of the
1:31:37carbs and sugar, right? Uh bear markets
1:31:40are when you're actually making money.
1:31:42These are when your buys at these low
1:31:45low prices when it's super painful they
1:31:47will turn green Yeah. when the bear when
1:31:49the bull market uh cycle starts.
1:31:51most green. Does this end like when the
1:31:54words sound hollow and when it sounds
1:31:55cliche and at some level when you don't
1:31:58want to hear it because you're like,
1:31:59"Ryan, shut up. This is too painful."
1:32:01Right. That's when you should be looking
1:32:04to buy. And I'm not saying right now.
1:32:07I'm not saying all lump sum. You could
1:32:08dollar cost average. You can do
1:32:10different things. But this is how you
1:32:13play the crypto market. Right. And the
1:32:15bear market. It's right? As you buy when
1:32:17there is what does Buffett say? Blood in
1:32:19the streets.
1:32:20the streets. There is there's lots of
1:32:22blood. There's blood and it might flow
1:32:25Yeah. for a while longer. We don't know
1:32:27we don't know when the bleeding's going
1:32:28to stop. You got to stay here. If you're
1:32:30not staying here, you're not playing the
1:32:32game right.
1:32:34You know so I guess that's that's what I
1:32:36would say. And and David I know we've
1:32:37got kind of a moment of Zen something to
1:32:40leave folks with as we exit. But
1:32:42remind remind us to
1:32:44uh what else is happening in Bankless
1:32:47cuz we're doing a live stream tonight.
1:32:48There's another another time we're going
1:32:49to talk about this.
1:32:50first the chat wants to remind you that
1:32:52that wasn't financial advice. Um
1:32:54So but I would like to ask the chat, all
1:32:57right, you chat you give me financial
1:32:59advice. What I want to I want to know
1:33:01what price that you're you're yeah,
1:33:02where are you buying so I can I can
1:33:04layer in my bids perhaps perhaps just
1:33:05before. Yeah, can we crowdsource some
1:33:07some Bitcoin and ether prices?
1:33:09Um but okay, so tonight we're doing our
1:33:12live stream with UpOnly.
1:33:14Um I think uh we probably won't be
1:33:16sharing tweets. I don't think we're
1:33:17going to be uh screen sharing. But yeah,
1:33:18Kobe and Ledger we're going to we're
1:33:19going to
1:33:20stream with them at 10:00 p.m. Eastern
1:33:22time. Uh and so stay tuned for that.
1:33:24That is in 5 and 1/2 hours. Yeah.
1:33:27Uh and so yeah, well, okay. People are
1:33:29talking about $600 ETH. Oh god. Ow. Ow.
1:33:32Ow. I don't I don't want that number.
1:33:34It's too low.
1:33:35That's too low. That's too low.
1:33:36I didn't want to delete the chat. Where
1:33:38can people catch that live stream,
1:33:39David?
1:33:40here. Right back here. So we will see
1:33:41you guys in 5 and 1/2 hours. We're going
1:33:42to talk to Kobe and Ledger. We're going
1:33:44to get Kobe's perspective as to why he
1:33:46thinks this is was the worst worst
1:33:47exchange rug pull in his time being
1:33:50here. Maybe we'll throw in try and get
1:33:52some other people here.
1:33:54We offered the invitation to CZ. He
1:33:56didn't respond. But if CZ wants to show
1:33:57up, that is an open invitation Bankless
1:34:00after dark. I am going to be drinking a
1:34:03drink. I will have
1:34:05a drink with me. I don't know about you
1:34:06Ryan, but I'll be drinking some whiskey.
1:34:07I I could say I will no longer be
1:34:08drinking coffee at that time. Will you
1:34:10be drinking something? Even that is too
1:34:11late for me. We'll see. We'll see what I
1:34:13show up with. Maybe a VB special
1:34:15something like that. A VB special. Wow.
1:34:17Bankless after dark. We haven't done it
1:34:19before. You know what? We appreciate you
1:34:21you sticking with us in Bankless like
1:34:24we're not leaving. We're going to be
1:34:25here in the bear market with you. This
1:34:27is the time we do the best. We build the
1:34:29best things. I'm going to leave risk and
1:34:31disclaimers and then I thank guys. Stick
1:34:33around.
1:34:34like and subscribe. Like and subscribe.
1:34:36Yes, first like and subscribe and we
1:34:37have a moment of Zen after these risk
1:34:39and disclaimers.
1:34:40have a moment
1:34:40None of this has been financial advice.
1:34:42It never freaking is on Bankless. Never
1:34:43ever. Never has been never will be. ETH
1:34:46is risky. Bitcoin is risky. You could
1:34:48lose what you put in but we are headed
1:34:50west. This is the frontier. It's not for
1:34:52everyone but we're glad you're with us
1:34:54on the Bankless journey. David, let me
1:34:56tee up this moment of Zen and I hope
1:34:59Did you share screen with sound? Here we
1:35:01go. Like I was saying, it's FTX. It's a
1:35:03safe and easy way to get into crypto.
1:35:06Yeah, I don't think so.
1:35:09And I'm never wrong about this stuff.
1:35:11Never.
1:35:13If you don't laugh, you'll cry. Take
1:35:15care guys. We'll see you in the stream
1:35:17tonight. Goodbye everyone.

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