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The Charisma Teacher: Psychology Of Why People Don't Like You! People Are Attracted To These Traits! — Transcript

by The Diary Of A CEO · 27,674 words · 3,781 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00I want to go through these five habits
0:01that make people instantly dislike you
0:03yes yes so these are tiny little things
0:06that a lot of people do without even
0:08realizing that they're doing this sort
0:09of stuff first one is oh my God so true
0:13Charlie hoopert is a leading expert in
0:15Charisma and confidence his insights and
0:17practical techniques have helped
0:18millions of people Master communication
0:20and body language to thrive in both
0:22personal and professional relationships
0:24how important is charisma and confidence
0:26it's perhaps the most underrated piece
0:27of success and it's the ability to speak
0:29with conviction the ability to influence
0:30someone ability to connect with people I
0:32mean look at Donald Trump he talked his
0:34way into the literal presidency of the
0:35United States of America it's so
0:37incredibly powerful and is it something
0:38that you can learn yeah and I'm a
0:40testament to that because growing up I
0:42was invisible not making new friends not
0:43forming connections I wasn't dating
0:45because there was this fear that I would
0:47get hurt where did that come from part
0:48of it to the experiences that I had one
0:51of them was being sexually abused and I
0:54felt disgusted with
0:58myself um
1:01I was struggling and frustrated with the
1:03compensations I'd made as a result of it
1:04and so I learned all the tips and tricks
1:07to develop confidence and became a
1:09completely different person and we're
1:11going to go through all of them amazing
1:12so there's prey versus Predator movement
1:14which is tremendously valuable for First
1:16Impressions and then there's the
1:17charismatic traits which women are
1:18attracted to the 60c ACT to establish
1:21trust and respect and then I have six
1:22charismatic mindsets for success and
1:24there's plenty more listen I've got time
1:26okay so let's break it down
1:31I have been forced into a bet with my
1:33team we're about to hit 10 million
1:35subscribers on YouTube which is our
1:36biggest Milestone ever thanks to all of
1:38you and we want to have a massive party
1:40for the people that have worked on this
1:41show for years behind the scenes so they
1:43said to me Steve for every new
1:45subscriber we get in the next 30 days
1:47can $1 be given to our celebration fund
1:51for the entire team and I've agreed to
1:53the bet so if you want to say thank you
1:55to the team behind the scenes at di of
1:56here all you've got to do is hit the
1:58Subscribe button so actually this is the
2:00first time I'm going to tell you not to
2:01subscribe because it might end up
2:04costing me an
2:07[Applause]
2:12[Music]
2:17awful
2:19Charlie hundreds and hundreds and
2:21hundreds and hundreds of millions of
2:23people have benefited from your work and
2:25tens of thousands of people have been
2:27through your University learning about
2:29something if you had to explain in your
2:31own words what it is that you're doing
2:33for those people in a simple way what
2:35would you how would you say that take
2:38all the situations where you're
2:39interacting with another person whether
2:40it's at your work dating friends and
2:43groups and take the times that you're
2:46feeling that you're not grounded in that
2:48sense of confidence that you maybe have
2:49when you're sitting at home on the couch
2:51with your friend or your family and
2:53bring the best version of yourself to
2:54those situations I think a lot of people
2:56also want flowing conversations they
2:58want to feel like themselves they want
3:00to be the person that is respected and
3:03is admired when they walk into a room
3:05they want other people to notice them
3:07that's one of the big ones that we hear
3:08from guys is they want to be the person
3:10that anytime they enter a room that
3:11women and men take notice of them it
3:14usually is an acute thing so a lot of
3:16people show up because there's a girl
3:18that they liked and it's not going well
3:20or something like that or they went out
3:22for a promotion and somebody that they
3:23felt was less qualified that them wound
3:25up getting the job so they come in with
3:27a very
3:28acute social situation that they would
3:30like to change they'd like to get the
3:31girl they' like to get the job theyd
3:32like to be the leader in their friend
3:34group but when people have gone through
3:36the course what I see is they speak more
3:37about a a sense of joy in life and
3:40confidence because I think that if you
3:42feel disconnected from people there
3:44actually read a thing this morning that
3:45some guy said you know I came here and I
3:47started applying your ideas and I got
3:49more tips at my job as a waiter which is
3:51really cool but also I felt as if I'd
3:53fallen into nihilism like I was just
3:55things didn't matter anymore and my
3:58ability to connect with people is
4:00Shifting that for me I feel more
4:03connected less nihilistic it's
4:05interesting because when people hear
4:07words like phrases like body language
4:09and Charisma and confidence they sound
4:11like tips and tricks and stuff but when
4:14I think about the impact that these
4:15things have had on my own life when I
4:17think about even presidential elections
4:20and how our society is is designed and
4:22who Rises to the top and who doesn't so
4:25much of it seems to depend on whether
4:26you understand naturally or through
4:28learning the skills how to be
4:31charismatic confident how to sell how to
4:33get someone else in some situation to
4:35believe you to buy into what you have to
4:37say um so I guess my question to you is
4:40how important is it like and someone
4:43that has the skills that you you teach
4:45people versus someone that doesn't how
4:47much of a trajectory shift is that going
4:49to be do you think on their on their
4:52life to me so there's the external
4:55question of what is it going to allow
4:56you to achieve in the world and then
4:57there there's the internal question of
4:58what is your subjective experience of
5:00your life starting with the internal to
5:02me it's almost everything like you're if
5:05you feel disconnected from the world it
5:07is very very hard to feel good no matter
5:09how much money you have no matter how
5:10much your six-pack abs are working for
5:12you like even if you have agulation and
5:15you have Fame but you feel disconnected
5:17from the people in your life it is very
5:18hard to feel good on the external side I
5:21think it's tremendously underrated and I
5:24think this is why people didn't see
5:25Donald Trump coming because does he have
5:28the best policies does he have the best
5:30record is he of any of these things he
5:32is clearly someone who has gotten to
5:33where he has by talking he talked his
5:36way into the literal presidency of the
5:38United States of America and if I look
5:40just at my own life at people who were
5:42advancing at work and then when I
5:44started focusing on this stuff it was
5:46not the best analyst there was a guy who
5:49was a better analyst than me and he did
5:51not get the off trck promotion that I
5:53got and it was just because I'd made
5:56closer connections with the president of
5:58of the company than he had and so I
6:00think it's wildly underrated I think a
6:02huge myth that people get is that if you
6:06get good grades do what is asked of you
6:08in the job description are generally
6:09kind and friendly and speak honestly
6:12that things are just going to work out
6:13for you but there is a missing piece
6:15which is do other people connect with
6:17you and like you and want you to succeed
6:19and I think it's perhaps the most
6:21underrated piece of success which is why
6:23I put all my attention there this wasn't
6:24like a play at making a lot of money or
6:26having a big YouTube channel it was the
6:28highest leverage point that I felt and
6:29experienced in my own life and is it
6:32something that you can learn that is
6:35yeah I said I said there was a big myth
6:36this is probably the first or second
6:37biggest myth is that you can't learn it
6:39and that I believe that for what 18
6:41years of my life so the the first
6:43portion of my life was Charisma is being
6:46able to throw a football better than the
6:48other kids right Charisma is just the
6:50thing that you have at 13 that I
6:52definitely didn't have and it was only
6:54around 18 1920 that I realized that the
6:57way that I approached people in
6:58conversations
7:00had a dramatic impact on the responses
7:02that I got so it is most definitely
7:04something you can learn I feel like I'm
7:06a testament to that and you know people
7:08have gone through the course uh also
7:10feel that and if someone hasn't seen
7:12your YouTube channel what is it you're
7:14doing on that YouTube channel so say
7:16that you know we've got someone
7:17listening now and they've never heard of
7:18your your channel before can you explain
7:21exactly what you've done on that channel
7:23how long you've done it for and how many
7:25situations you've looked at over the
7:26last decade yeah so basically what I
7:30would do is I would look at moments it
7:31started with a Bill Clinton debate that
7:33was the first video that I ever did and
7:35there's this debate moment where Bill
7:36Clinton and George Bush Senior are
7:38having a town hall so it's them
7:40communicating directly with people and
7:42it's known as the moment that Bill
7:43Clinton won the election and it's him
7:45going up to this woman and just she asks
7:47some question about politics or the
7:49thing and he goes up and he says how
7:51does this impact you and he looks her
7:52dead in the eye and you could tell she
7:54just she's feeling it she's connected
7:56with him and he gives his answer so it's
7:58us breaking down those sorts of
8:01interactions some of them are in
8:03politics some of them are on talk shows
8:04and some of them are scripted TV shows
8:06where I'm just saying hey this is
8:07obviously a script but it would work in
8:09real life if you did it like Jon Snow
8:11did in Game of Thrones or something so
8:13we use that sort of as the hook because
8:15you know a lot of people weren't looking
8:17Charisma was not a topic that anyone was
8:19interested in 10 years ago so we would
8:21hook people with Game of Thrones or this
8:23famous person but the content of it
8:25would be how to handle a group
8:28interaction or how to lead more
8:29effectively and these were things that I
8:31wasn't necessarily learning from these
8:33videos but I was learning elsewhere in
8:35my life and then commenting on what I
8:37saw in these videos and that really
8:38connected with our audience and it's
8:40helped us get I think 6.8 million
8:42subscribers at this point it's
8:44incredible and it's actually such an
8:46unbelievably powerful way to do it by
8:48showing both real world examples but
8:50also fictional examples and I was even
8:52watch watching you break down certain
8:54interviews that the famous um Jordan
8:56Peterson interview with Kath Kathy
8:58Newman Kathy Newman that one's great and
8:59you break down exactly what's going on
9:02on kind of both sides and how Jordan
9:04ultimately ends up winning that argument
9:06by um kind of holding his position and
9:09Kathy trying to put words into his mouth
9:10Etc all of those things but you break it
9:12down you break down moments from history
9:14moments that we all know from movies and
9:16tell us exactly what's going on in terms
9:18of like human connection conversation
9:20persuasion leadership influence in those
9:23situations incredibly fascinating so
9:25let's talk about you yeah because people
9:27will look at you now sat here and
9:28they'll think this is a guy that's
9:29always had confident you're a good
9:30looking guy you're someone that is
9:33clearly a great conversationalist you
9:34exude Charisma but if we were to wind
9:37back I know that that's not always been
9:39the case yeah yeah so take me back you
9:42did your research uh so I grew up
9:45extremely shy and still am today in
9:46introvert I mean you could probably see
9:48if you flash five or six minutes back to
9:50the beginning of this interview like I
9:51started off nervous I feel very
9:53comfortable now but my default state is
9:55one of shyness reservedness and
9:57nervousness and so that was just how I
10:00was for the long time and when it came
10:02time to graduate high school they have
10:03these superlatives that they would give
10:05out and I had a class of about 500
10:06people and my superlative was most
10:09likely to break out of a shell in
10:10college so I was well known but I was
10:13well known for not saying a lot so
10:16people like didn't know me and then
10:18voted for me as the person who one day
10:21would show up and reveal themselves to
10:23the world I suppose that didn't happen I
10:25didn't break out of my shell in college
10:27at all uh I continued to do the same I
10:29had a small small group of friends I
10:30wasn't like uh dating or anything like
10:33that and then it was only when I was
10:36about 19 years old that I studied abroad
10:38and had gotten so sick of the experience
10:42for me at that time in my life of having
10:44a massive Crush for usually a year
10:47forming a entire relationship in my head
10:50that we would one day have and then
10:52having that not materialize because they
10:55weren't interested or if they were
10:56interested I could quickly talk them out
10:58of being interested just by my general
11:00awkwardness that had happened so many
11:02times that I was done with it and
11:04frustrated so when I went abroad I made
11:06it a mission to figure out what was
11:08going on and shift it and it was
11:10actually very helpful and when people
11:11ask me how do you begin to change these
11:14things in yourself shifting your
11:16environment is so impactful probably the
11:18one of the most impactful things because
11:19what you don't realize is that your
11:21friend and family who love you very much
11:23tend to not like shifts that you make to
11:26your habits particularly the way that
11:28you socialize with other people but when
11:30I gave myself the freedom of being
11:32abroad I tried everything you know I
11:34worked on my eye contact I read every
11:36book and we just run little personal
11:38experiments some of which didn't go well
11:40there was one period of time I remember
11:41where the experiment was big eyes and so
11:43I'd like walk around so nice to meet you
11:46and you immediately you immediately
11:47recoil your head I swear I did that
11:49probably for a week until somebody said
11:52dude what are you doing with your eyes
11:53stop really yeah he was a good friend um
11:56I appreciate him for that but it was
11:59just many experiments and I started them
12:01while I was studying abroad and I
12:02continue when I came back but by the
12:03time that I did come back six months or
12:05a year later uh the word in the college
12:08campus was like what happened to you you
12:10are a completely different person you
12:13are outgoing and you seem capable of
12:15talking particularly to women at this
12:17case and then friends were all of a
12:18sudden asking me what should I do and so
12:22that started sort of a second phase of
12:24my life where this was the primary focus
12:28day-to-day you know after like eating
12:30drinking and maybe getting some money in
12:32order to pay my bills other people how
12:34to influence them how to interact with
12:36them how to get better friendships how
12:38to talk my way into a job you know all
12:40of those sorts of things became the
12:41primary focus for me just to spend a
12:44second going back to how what your sort
12:46of internal monologue was like through
12:48the awkward years of your life how did
12:50you how did you feel and what did you
12:52think of yourself like if IID asked you
12:55what do you think of yourself back then
12:57and you were to answer it honestly what
12:59would you
13:00say honestly which I couldn't have done
13:02but I will tell you um ashamed would
13:05have been what I would have said and I
13:06didn't like I didn't know this about
13:09myself
13:11but like I didn't have the right to
13:13speak up like it people wouldn't have
13:15liked it I had I remember I had one guy
13:16and it didn't even bother me because I I
13:18suppose it connected with how I felt but
13:20he said Charlie you're so normal that
13:22you're invisible and I think that was by
13:25Design like blending in became a way to
13:29be unseen and a way to be safe and I
13:31wasn't picked on you know like all of
13:34those things never happen just because I
13:37was there but not in a way that was
13:38noticeable the problem with that is yeah
13:40you're safe you don't get picked on
13:41nothing happens but also nothing happens
13:43right you're not making new friends
13:45you're not forming connections other
13:46people were forming new groups and
13:48expanding and I I was not so there was a
13:51huge disconnect between how I felt in a
13:53more public setting and how I felt in
13:54more intimate private settings and did
13:56you look at some other people who didn't
13:58seem to have those challenges as I don't
14:02know biologically gifted yeah freaks of
14:04nature is that what you thought oh yeah
14:06totally there was there was clearly it
14:09didn't the thought that something could
14:11shift in me to get me to have a
14:14different response didn't occur until I
14:15was 18 or 19 years old and I think
14:17that's a a really important shift for a
14:21lot of people is where you start
14:22recognizing that it's on you it's your
14:25responsibility and the way that I put it
14:27at the time was it's always my fault so
14:30what I carried from 19 to say 28 or 29
14:34was if this interaction with you and I
14:36or anyone doesn't go well there's
14:38something that I could have done
14:39differently in order to make it go well
14:41and so that gave me this fuel to
14:43constantly adjust because I was going
14:45okay that one didn't go great what could
14:48I have done where did it break down it
14:49was three minutes into conversation but
14:51I felt they sort of dropped off when I
14:53started answering that question about my
14:55boring job in a really boring way so let
14:58me in this next interaction talk about
14:59my job in a way that is a bit more
15:01exciting and so I was really spending a
15:04lot of time obsessively reviewing and
15:06talking with my co-founder and best
15:07friend at the time like what happened
15:09where did it break down what could we
15:11try differently and then running these
15:12experiments it was genuinely an
15:14obsession and a thrilling one at at that
15:17what was the difference between the the
15:19guy who went on holiday that day on the
15:22plane versus the guy that came back in
15:24terms of skills or knowledge what was
15:26the actual difference in the person
15:30a willingness to stick your neck out
15:33there was the big thing so one of one of
15:35the primary things that I did when I
15:38went abroad was ask questions that I
15:42otherwise would have kept to myself so I
15:44was in a town a small town of Costa Rica
15:46called Aradia and I showed up I don't
15:48speak Spanish right so there's even more
15:52reason to to oh my gosh I could make a
15:54mistake and it could go really bad and I
15:55could be bumbling but I made a rule that
15:59I was going to ask if I didn't know
16:01where my classroom was I wasn't going to
16:02like sit with my piece of paper and then
16:04try to work it out on the map I was
16:05going to ask a human and when it came
16:07time to figure out where there was a
16:08good restaurant or a good place to go
16:10out at night I was always going to ask
16:12someone and thanks to that habit as well
16:14as the friendliness of Latin
16:17people that extended my comfort zone and
16:20gave me a number of experiences of you
16:23put yourself out there something magical
16:24happens so that that is the easiest tip
16:28that I can give is one more sentence so
16:30when people ask me like what what is
16:31something that I can do to work on my
16:33Charisma I would say you have dozens of
16:36interaction in today if you're in any
16:37sort of populated era you have an
16:38interaction with the Uber driver you
16:40have an interaction with the person
16:41behind the counter you have an
16:42interaction with the person who you get
16:44into an elevator with and there's
16:45usually a prescribed amount of social
16:47interaction that you have maybe it's hey
16:49maybe it's even less than hey the advice
16:51that I give to people is if you want to
16:52get started one more sentence one more
16:55sentence than usual so as you get into
16:57the elevator and the normal sentence is
16:59what floor anything in addition to that
17:02what floor are you in oh have you lived
17:04in this building for a long time you
17:06know and all a sudden you get to know
17:08your neighbors because the person that
17:09is just the elevator person who you're
17:11putting them on floor three now has a
17:13name and every time it sort of uh
17:15compounds and expands and you get to
17:16have a wider Social Circle so that's
17:18just one piece of the things that I
17:20would work on which is one more sentence
17:21with people uh but there's there's
17:23plenty more and I'm happy to dive into
17:25First Impressions and all that kind of
17:27stuff okay so first impr
17:29yeah the big thing that I got wrong and
17:33I see almost everybody get wrong and
17:34it's bad Common advice about First
17:36Impressions is that just the best way to
17:39get people interested in you is to be
17:41interested in them and what I found is
17:43that that is generally true but it
17:45ignores the the realities of status
17:48which is I'm sure you experienced this
17:50with a lot of people come up to you
17:51they're very interested in you but that
17:53doesn't mean that they're going to make
17:54a good first impression on you it means
17:56that you might have compassion for them
17:57it might even means that you might feel
17:58love for them but it does not mean that
18:00you're going to want to follow up and
18:01spend time with them probably you've
18:02experienced I don't want to follow up
18:04with this person and spend time with
18:05them even though I see their sincerity
18:07of their
18:09interest and I've and I've been on both
18:11sides of this right I've been the person
18:13who is so just so interested in you
18:16there's a few things that if you just do
18:17this before expressing your interest in
18:19somebody changes the whole game so fun
18:22trust
18:24respect if you and this can take 60
18:27seconds or less can communicate that you
18:29are fun that the person can trust you
18:31and that there is something to respect
18:33about you and then you express your
18:35interest in that person it will
18:36completely flip the dynamic on its head
18:39so we can break it down please fun
18:42there's a ton of ways to handle this
18:43right you can crack jokes you can do all
18:45sorts of things but the easiest way to
18:47add fun to an interaction is you take
18:49the first question that almost everybody
18:51asks you which is how are you right
18:53these are the gimmies that we just say
18:55fine good how are you oh there's a fire
18:57whatever and be more enthusiastic than
18:59fine I would always say be better than
19:01good so if somebody comes up to you and
19:03they say how are you doing you can be
19:05fantastic or wonderful or great or
19:08ecstatic or electric and there's a whole
19:11separate conversation about how to make
19:12this real inside of yourself because I'm
19:14not asking you to paper over anything I
19:16think that was a mistake that I made
19:18early in my Charisma career of just too
19:21much fake it till you make it but if you
19:23can genuinely cultivate those feelings
19:24and share them that level of enthusiasm
19:26is fun crack a joke you got fun okay
19:29trust this is a lot of non-verbal stuff
19:32you know eye contact body language the
19:34way that you shake someone's hand but it
19:37also comes down to if the person feels
19:39like you are trying to get something
19:41from them and there's a number of things
19:43that tip us off to this but one of these
19:45is when you over qualify yourself which
19:48is in direct competition with this need
19:51to establish yourself right so there's
19:54these we we want to establish that we're
19:56interesting people we have things going
19:57on that you might want to connect with
19:59but if we drift over into name dropping
20:01and selling we're going to alienate the
20:02trust so the place that I focus most on
20:05with people is in most inter places that
20:08I've been how are you where are you from
20:11what do you do are like three of the
20:13most basic questions go to a college
20:15campus it's what's your major we all
20:17have these and you can think of them now
20:18if you're in the audience we have these
20:19things that we hear all the time and we
20:20probably have habitual answers to them
20:23yes and these habitual answers are
20:25usually not great yes M are so bad yeah
20:28I just remembered mine actually people
20:30come up to me and they say God you've
20:31been so busy and then I'll say something
20:33like yeah
20:34always and then the conversation's over
20:37yeah yeah they've got they've got
20:38nothing to hook into or hook onto there
20:40so you're able to get away with that and
20:42one of the things that people do is they
20:43build a tremendous amount of confidence
20:45and power and then all of a sudden you
20:46don't you can drop this to a degree
20:48because people are still interested
20:49because they know you from Dragon Den or
20:51some other things but if you're out
20:53there and you don't have that yet like I
20:54didn't when I was 19 and 20 or you just
20:57want to have more engaging convers ation
20:58and you want to bring in people that you
21:00genuinely connect with reverse engineer
21:03the conversation that you would like to
21:04have so you could one of I have six
21:07charismatic mindsets that I think about
21:09one of them is go there first in
21:10humanizing the interaction and so this
21:12can mean if you're in a group of people
21:15that are all really stiff and nervous
21:17because they don't know if it's okay
21:18crack the first joke be vulnerable first
21:20give the first compliment like lead the
21:22interaction in the way you want to go
21:24because that's what everybody wants like
21:25we don't want to be suits we don't want
21:27to be roles in a company we want to be
21:30humans and that stuff is everybody wants
21:32that and whoever goes first becomes the
21:35leader okay okay so in your interactions
21:39you're getting asked are you busy so if
21:41you could go there first and do the
21:44thing that you're wanting them to do and
21:46work that into the answer of how you're
21:48busy or are you busy that is going to
21:51lead the conversation the direction you
21:52want so as a for instance I don't know
21:54if this is are you busy you know I have
21:56been but one of the things that I've
21:58really been struggling with that I
21:59haven't figured out yet at this point is
22:02you know I'm having some relationship
22:03isses I'm having this or that the other
22:04thing but like sharing the real thing a
22:06level down beneath the surface level
22:08stuff that you're tempted to share with
22:10people is going there first and making
22:12it okay for them to do it and then you
22:15say what about you versus they say hey
22:19uh how's it going you're so busy you're
22:20say oh yeah man been busy how about you
22:22they're just going to match you
22:24especially given your you know your
22:26power as the the leader of the company
22:28they they will just match what you do
22:31but if you go there first you give
22:32people permission to go deeper so a lot
22:34of people for instance what they might
22:36want is they want the thing that they
22:38care about is they care about their job
22:41they love what they do and they're
22:42really interested or maybe they hate
22:43their job and they care more about their
22:45free time and their hobbies and the
22:46extreme sports that they do so in these
22:48questions of how have you been what do
22:51you do where are you from I have a
22:53worksheet in our course that helps
22:55people walk through what a good answer
22:58could be that would leave hooks for the
23:00person that is an extreme sports
23:01Enthusiast or does you know have an
23:03interest in that particular Niche that
23:04they're interested in to hook into but
23:07if you were to ask me where I'm from and
23:08let's say that I want to connect with
23:09you in a number of different ways but
23:11the thing that I really want you to know
23:13is that I have an interesting business I
23:15could say I'm from Philadelphia and
23:17we're
23:18done oh cool I've been to Philadelphia
23:20or no my friend's brother went there is
23:22it cold in Philadelphia like these this
23:24is where we're going to go now we're on
23:25weather and sports which is where most
23:27conversations go
23:29but if I say you know I grew up in
23:30Philadelphia but I never really fit in
23:33there like a lot of the people in that
23:34area wind up spending their whole lives
23:36within 20 minutes of where they were
23:37born and so I traveled throughout my 20s
23:39and lived a bunch of places but I now
23:41live in LA just because it's the right
23:42place for my business and I end there
23:46the next question that is coming from
23:48you is probably oh what's your business
23:51or where did you travel so if I give you
23:53a number of different options to hook
23:55into here you're going to take the one
23:57that you're most interested in M and so
23:59what I would try to do in these answers
24:00with myself and what I advise people to
24:02do is take the three topics that you
24:04know you'd love to talk about like you'd
24:05love to talk about your travels you'd
24:07love to talk about your business and
24:08you'd love to talk about philosophy or
24:10whatever it is and find a way to just
24:12leave little crumbs in these common
24:15answers that give the right person the
24:19invitation to talk to you about that
24:21thing and this is something that I found
24:23really like small talk can suck it's
24:25very draining to sit here and like how
24:27much more can I say about the WEA or
24:28local sports team I can't keep doing it
24:31yeah but when you do these sorts of
24:32things it uh man it opens up the
24:34opportunity for connection so much more
24:36quickly in interaction and I hate small
24:38talk yeah I really hate it I find it
24:40really draining I find it so fake and I
24:42I kind of want to get on to the real
24:44stuff
24:45um so you're saying that's how to do it
24:48to leave sort of crumbs in my response
24:50that will send us down a more
24:53interesting pathway and conversation to
24:55really think through how do I and what
24:57do I want to connect with people over
24:59right it's not the weather and it's not
25:00the local sports team it is in my case I
25:03want to interact with people that uh are
25:05interested in the same sort of like
25:07YouTube space that I'm interested in
25:09that's one of the things beforehand I
25:10thought that I knew about people I like
25:12I could tell who that guy is I know I
25:14know what kind of life he has but when
25:15you start leaving these Clues people
25:17surprise you the like the the types of
25:20connections that come from people that
25:22you wouldn't expect
25:24are I don't know another word other than
25:27like magical it's it's very special to
25:29see that the world is full of
25:31opportunities where once you saw it as I
25:34already know what's coming from this
25:35person it's just going to be a boring
25:36Small Talk conversation and to find that
25:37that person could be someone that you do
25:39business with or become very close to or
25:43winds up being the brother of someone
25:45that you date is is very exciting to me
25:48there there's a real mindset shift in
25:50that like seeing the world differently
25:52as a set of opportunities versus this
25:54sort of like fixed thing that you just
25:56have to navigate yes and also there's a
25:59a playfulness that can be brought to it
26:01as well so one of the other things that
26:03I talk about is flirting with the world
26:05right so what I mean by this is that
26:07when you go out and you're flirting you
26:11tend not to be literal in your answers
26:14right there's there's a playfulness that
26:15is engaged you're going to joke with
26:17that person and what what a lot of
26:19people do and I'm guilty of this all the
26:20time is when you're checking out at the
26:22store you're doing anything you are very
26:24literal in your answers can I help you
26:26with anything today can I get one other
26:28thing what floor are you on as you get
26:29in the elevator and if instead ofo floor
26:32three you say I don't live here I'm just
26:33casing the joint for rubber you know
26:35it's just like like that little stuff
26:37that is playful that is what people are
26:39dying for we're just so many people are
26:41on autopilot and when you bring that
26:43playfulness that little flirtatious
26:44energy to men women alike things open up
26:47in in a very fun and exciting way does
26:51that come from confidence because i'
26:53I've noticed that i' I'd certainly flirt
26:54with the world more now that I feel like
26:56I have a greater sense of confidence
26:58that didn't have when I was 18 to 25
27:02yeah I think it's Circle I think it
27:04absolutely comes from confidence when
27:06you feel good you bring that playful
27:09energy to the world and I learned to
27:12develop confidence by there was a time
27:14of Faking it till I made it where I
27:16wasn't comfortable but I had this rule
27:17in my head I'm in the elevator I have to
27:19say the thing right now that's what I
27:21did and then the interaction went well
27:23and now I'm building these reps of good
27:25experiences where I'm seeing that my
27:27belief about the world is this place
27:29that I just had to make it through is
27:30not true there's fun opportunities
27:32everywhere I really want to um make sure
27:35I've got everything on this first
27:36impressions Point as well is there
27:38anything else that I need to be aware of
27:39you talked about non-verbal cues and I
27:42mean there's so much information out
27:43there that says non-verbal cues are
27:45everything that they maybe nothing do
27:47you think they matter and what are the
27:49most important non-verbal cues when it
27:50comes to making a good first impression
27:53one one of the ones that I see is prey
27:56versus Predator
27:59prey versus Predator movement and prey
28:02versus Predator gesticulation so if you
28:03think of an animal that is a prey animal
28:06like a a little bird or a little rabbit
28:07they're very like Herky jerky and they
28:10they Dart and you think of a predator
28:13you think of a lion or like this like
28:15sort of languid slow movement now you
28:18don't have to dial it up to Sleepy lion
28:21level but one of the things that you see
28:22with people that feel very afraid is
28:25that they Dart their eyes are very dirty
28:28the hand goes in the hand goes out goes
28:30back into the pockets very quickly a bit
28:32of slowness to your movements a bit of
28:35calm especially if you're an anxious
28:37person can help a lot that doesn't mean
28:39you need to lower the energy but it just
28:40means you can slow things down a bit the
28:43other thing that I find is this is
28:45almost pre-ir
28:46impression if you're out at a social
28:49event right you're at a networking event
28:51you're at a
28:52bar I think a lot of people do not
28:55realize the intuitive sense that others
28:57have
28:59for what is going on around them in
29:01interactions they're not directly in and
29:03so what will happen and this is
29:04connected to the pray thing but not
29:05identical is that people go out to a
29:08networking event and they feel very
29:09uncomfortable on their own shoes and so
29:10they're looking at their phone or
29:11they're standing by the bar and they're
29:13sort of looking around for something or
29:15someone to rescue them from their
29:18loneliness and when you can shift that
29:21to I am going to be comfortable where I
29:24am I'm going to find one person my
29:26friend and I would go out to the bar and
29:28the rule that we had was the most
29:29interesting place in this entire bar is
29:32the space between our noses right it
29:34doesn't matter you can say whatever you
29:35want you could be like I'm terrified
29:36here I'm so scared I wish I could go
29:38home right now but we have to engage
29:40with one another it was remarkable how
29:43much easier it was to start conversation
29:45when it was started from a place of
29:47we're enjoying one another's company and
29:49being playful and having a good time
29:50here versus two of us just sort of like
29:53standing at the bar going like this
29:55looking around for around attention or
29:57for so yeah so those are two things one
29:59pray verse Predator movements and two
30:01are you exuding this Vibe of I don't
30:03have it somebody else does that that
30:05people have a unconscious sense that
30:09that is happening around them and so
30:12making it a conscious point to I'm going
30:14to be cool in my own space when I
30:17interact with someone I'm not going to
30:18make them a stepping stone to another
30:20person that I'm more secretly attracted
30:22to or has the job that I want I'm with
30:24this person now and then I can move on
30:27that had a huge huge impact on the abil
30:29like First Impressions became easier
30:31because of the pre first impression mhm
30:35I mean there's so much I wanted to to
30:36dig into there on the prey versus
30:37Predator thing what is it about slow
30:40movements that make someone appear to be
30:42higher status cuz cuz as you said it I
30:45immediately thought of the line and then
30:46you were talking about some little like
30:48rodent that's kind of like farting
30:49around and it's anxious that it's about
30:50to be eaten and then I thought of the
30:52line which is kind of just
30:54slowly moving and then I thought of
30:56business contexts where you've got the
30:58leader in the room who is kind of sat
31:00back in their chair they're doing things
31:02in a more considered way and maybe the
31:04intern who's like dropping the paper and
31:06like yeah like hitting the glass
31:08accidentally and it's it's so
31:10interesting because it's so true yeah
31:12it's safety safety it's safety I mean
31:15prey animals are hunted and that's what
31:17you have to be head on a swivel if
31:19you're a prey animal you want to move
31:20slow you're dead it's over we're animals
31:24that are highly attuned to social status
31:26and so when we feel low on on the totem
31:28pole we feel less safe and so one of the
31:30things that the ways that we exhibit
31:32that is we move more quickly we have our
31:34head on a swivel we have to be aware of
31:36everything that is going on we can't
31:38take our time because we don't at some
31:40level that mamalian or Reptilian Brain
31:44is telling us that we are unsafe in this
31:46environment or at least less safe than
31:48the leader who feels very slow another
31:50thing that you'll see in terms of status
31:53and people who feel are is the ability
31:56to be seen looking at others and so one
31:59of the things that happens and this is I
32:01don't mean uh I can explain how this
32:03doesn't contradict the point about
32:04focusing on someone else but when you do
32:07turn your attention to someone else what
32:08you'll see the guy at the bar who feels
32:10uncomfortable or the intern do is
32:11they'll often look with their eyes but
32:13not with the rest of their body they're
32:14they're doing this sort of stuff because
32:16they're afraid to be seen looking but
32:19when you take the person who is more
32:21comfortable they will turn their head
32:23and know sometimes their chest and their
32:25whole body towards others to and they
32:28can be caught looking because they're
32:30not threatening that other person
32:31they're not harming them they're not you
32:32know they're comfortable versus there's
32:35a fear of if they see me looking I'm in
32:37trouble right and so these are little I
32:40wouldn't say that you need to spend all
32:41your time focusing on these hacks but
32:43they work both ways so it's one thing to
32:47notice that but if you actually
32:48consciously go to the body I think this
32:50is one of the fastest ways to influence
32:52how you feel like state in the moment
32:55instead of doing this and the prey
32:56darting and the sitting with the hands
32:58in the pockets right that that creates a
33:00loop of feeling uncomfortable so one of
33:03the first things that I would do when I
33:04was going out to a networking event or a
33:06bar or anywhere where I felt
33:07uncomfortable was dance floor because on
33:09the Dance Floor I can
33:11go and open up and feel more comfortable
33:15through my body because I'm signaling to
33:17my body as I expand my arms and dance
33:19and wave them that I'm safe right and so
33:22it's a it's a two-way Loop so if you
33:25notice yourself at a network event or a
33:27bar or anywhere where feeling
33:28uncomfortable and you notice that you're
33:29doing this and you can say okay I can't
33:31go to my brain and make these anxiety go
33:33away up here but I can choose how I hold
33:37myself this is the Jordan Peterson stand
33:38up straight right it's there's there's
33:40this body Loop feedback that we get and
33:42if you do it by opening up your body
33:44language revealing your vulnerable spots
33:46which are the parts that your veins it's
33:48your neck it's your inner elbow it's
33:49your hands right standing like this a
33:52little bit more open that tends and I
33:54can feel it now I don't know why I
33:55didn't do it at the beginning I'm a
33:56little bit Rusty jeez
33:59I feel immediately more grounded right I
34:01feel immediately more safe comfortable
34:04and like I can take my time in this
34:06interaction rather than having to get
34:07the answer right for you right for the
34:09audience like I might have when I was
34:12going like this it's I was going to say
34:14before you pointed that out that it's
34:17really self-fulfilling like the intern
34:19who's on edge who's dropping the paper
34:21is then going to make certain behaviors
34:24which are going to kind of reinforce
34:25their insecurity and low status which is
34:28then might be pointed out they might
34:29notice it themselves which makes them
34:31feel [ __ ] again which makes them more on
34:33edge and Twitchy which is going to
34:34increase the probability that they
34:35conduct some kind of behavior which is
34:36and it's this downward spiral where
34:38you're like you feel stuck at the bottom
34:39of that and you're saying that by
34:42influencing the things you've described
34:44you know moving a bit slower being
34:45expansive with your body you can start
34:48to trigger the loop from the other way
34:51you can start to make yourself feel safe
34:54if you feel safe you're more likely to
34:55do the higher value things which make
34:56you feel safe and you spiral upwards
34:59potentially yes yeah this is not an
35:01Insight unique to me Tony Robbins when
35:04at his events I don't know if you've
35:05gone they talk about incantations where
35:07one of the things that he does is prior
35:09to going on stage and he advises people
35:10to do this before they have a big moment
35:12is he will like bang his chest and
35:15go and his Tony Robin's way and he'll
35:18have oftentimes a phrase that is like
35:20I'm here to inspire or like I love
35:23myself I feel wonderful and I would do
35:25this before I went out right I would
35:27before I got in the taxi before I went
35:29anywhere I would go I love myself I love
35:31myself I love myself and I would just
35:33build this physical body energy
35:37connection and it's real it happens it
35:41it makes a dramatic impact on how you
35:43show up because oftentimes you only get
35:4530 seconds right it's not a lot of time
35:47when you're sitting down in that
35:49interview before the person starts to
35:51form an opinion about you so going in
35:53with that that energy that is like look
35:56I approve of me and I'm going to have
35:57the body language communication that
35:59tells you that that's how I feel people
36:01often pick up on that you can think of
36:04interactions as two people who are
36:06storms of beliefs encountering one
36:08another and if my storm of belief is I'm
36:11not really sure about this I don't
36:13really think I deserve this job and you
36:15probably shouldn't talk to me and your
36:16storm of belief is I don't know a lot
36:18about this guy but let's find out I'm
36:20going to win yeah and you're going to
36:22pick that up and you're go you know I
36:24don't think this guy deserves the job
36:25whatever but if the belief is I deserve
36:28to be here I love myself I can be
36:31comfortable I can be human and I'll be
36:32okay if this doesn't go the way that I'd
36:34like that's that's what wins out in
36:37these it's it is the higher conviction
36:39belief that often bleeds through in
36:41interaction and becomes the the one that
36:44defines that relationship at least for
36:46that limited time in that context it's
36:48funny because I think about my
36:50non-verbal cues all the time I meet so
36:53many people in so many different
36:54contexts and a lot of the time I'm like
36:57tired um um I'm my my head has a million
37:00tabs open so I try and influence like
37:03how I'm showing up with like my body
37:04language and eye contact and outside of
37:08the things we've discussed is there
37:09anything else that you think I can do to
37:11try and
37:12leave I don't want to be rude that's
37:15what I don't want to be I was going to
37:16say I want to be warm but there's
37:17something I want to be myself and I want
37:19I don't want to be rude accidentally
37:21rude mhm so you and you worry that you
37:24might come across rude yeah because
37:29I don't know you meet people like my my
37:31assistant Sophie she walked in here now
37:32hi she's just got like like 247 energy
37:36and I ain't got that yeah I'm not that
37:38guy and I'm not going to fake it yeah
37:41and I've never been good at faking it
37:43but is there anything else that I could
37:44accidentally be making people dislike me
37:46just with small things no I can say the
37:49areas where I felt most connected to you
37:52which is I think the opposite of rude
37:53rude is like I'm not interested in you
37:55as a person the areas where I felt most
37:57connected to you is where one of us
38:00again went there first and like said the
38:03thing that was real it's the moments
38:06where you stop neither of us is trying
38:09to perform at all for the camera and
38:11there's still a sense of that the
38:12audience is there but yeah that's that's
38:13where I feel okay any rudess just no
38:17gone interesting and and when you say
38:19that I think about like everyday
38:20interactions and is there ever a
38:23situation where like going there first
38:25is a little bit too strong is what I
38:28would say so the the thought is the one
38:30that you have everyone has right it's
38:33it's no I can't because other if they
38:34didn't have that thought they would have
38:36already done it right I will tell you a
38:38brief story that my brother reminded me
38:40of today as we were driving in I was
38:41like I need I need my Charisma stories
38:43and he said you can tell the one about
38:44me so your brother he's in the Green
38:46Room yeah yeah okay we went to a
38:48networking event and for whatever reason
38:52that day I was just in this zone of I'm
38:54going to be a professional because this
38:56is a networking event and the channel
38:57wasn't established at this point and he
39:00came with me and so I'm going in there
39:03and I'm going through the line I'm
39:05filling out my card what's your name
39:06Charlie you know what do you do okay I'm
39:08getting my my information I put my badge
39:10on I walk through and he goes behind me
39:12and they say what's your name he says
39:16dragon and she says excuse me I said no
39:18no WR dragon on the card it's gonna be
39:19great and so he then starts a
39:22conversation with her and they're like
39:24just being playful and he puts dragon on
39:26his chest and I'm going in trying to you
39:28know impress people with my
39:29professionalism MH and people were like
39:31what's up he's like Dragon here and he
39:33was a hit right he didn't he didn't have
39:35anything to do with the networking event
39:37he didn't have anything to do with the
39:39uh the context of why people were there
39:42but the interest that he got was so much
39:44immediately more than I was getting
39:46being the one that actually had the
39:47business that was somewhat related to
39:48the thing and so even I believe that
39:52these rules on how we should engage are
39:55um set in stone and what think few
39:58people have done if you think of your
40:00entire life you're either hitting it
40:02perfect unders shooting or overshooting
40:05everyone's fears of overshooting but
40:07they spend almost all of their lives
40:09undershooting overshooting is in being
40:11too coming on too strong yeah and and
40:13that it's okay but like there's there's
40:14type one and type two errors right and
40:16if there's a perfect Middle Ground of
40:18like wow like I didn't that was a trauma
40:21dump on that person would be in
40:22overshare or like oh I maybe shouldn't
40:24crack that joke at a funeral would be
40:25going there first type of a thing M we
40:28have less than a dozen of those usually
40:31in our life and we have hundreds and
40:34thousands of undershooting so what I'm
40:37encouraging people to do is take the
40:39risk of the overshoot because you're
40:41already missing like you're you're under
40:43what is available to you in terms of the
40:45potential to create connections and the
40:47question here is which I think informs
40:49all of this is is your goal to blend in
40:51get through and not make a splash or is
40:54your goal what what is your goal and for
40:56me it's like I want to connect I want to
40:58connect with the people that would most
41:00connect with me and in order to do that
41:02I have to be willing to be seen okay so
41:04on the other end of this what are the
41:05mistakes people make that cause
41:07disconnection talking about yourself is
41:09that is that I don't think so what in
41:12what sense so like if you walk into a
41:14room and you immediately start talking
41:16about yourself is that going to be if
41:19you're over talking good question it's
41:21it's about do people have opt-in points
41:24so are you are you stopping giving the
41:27person a chance to reopt into that line
41:29of communication so this is again one of
41:31the things we work on on those initial
41:32questions is um okay you want to you
41:35want to share your values early in the
41:36interaction but am I just going to give
41:38you my life story right I'm not giving
41:39someone a chance to opt in but if I make
41:41it three to five sentences and I say you
41:43know I grew up uh I grew up on the west
41:46coast and it was perfect because there
41:47was surf every there everywhere and then
41:49uh I met my wife but you know she's
41:52super close to her family and I just
41:53wanted to be a family man so now I live
41:55in the middle uh of the country and
41:57whatever you give like three hooks that
41:58people can hook into and you're done
42:01that's fine but some people don't give a
42:03chance for anyone to step in and get a
42:06word in edwise so that's another piece
42:07that I think and I could also ask them
42:08right if they surf or something yes
42:10exactly but also you will see that
42:13sometimes early in an
42:15interaction if you
42:18indicate these points of like people
42:21people will often comment on what you
42:23have to say they won't you don't need to
42:24ask them necessarily like if you give
42:26that thing that they like
42:27you often don't have to like they will
42:29jump in with the thing that connects to
42:31it so interesting you know throughout
42:33this conversation you've repeatedly made
42:35reference to the fact that connection
42:36happens at a deeper level but also the
42:39Paradox is that we don't walk around
42:41offering the deeper level MH
42:45um which is what I've always figured out
42:47and like found out on this podcast is
42:48the deeper the conversation the more I
42:49feel like connected to the person yeah
42:51and yeah it's really interesting I was
42:54just thinking about interactions that
42:55I've even had today and you know like
42:57the person that I I spoke to in the gym
42:59would I have rolled up to them and what
43:00could I have said to them that would
43:02would have been God us past the fluffy
43:05small talk cuz I met someone in the gym
43:06that I've known for Loosely known yeah
43:09and it was one of those interactions
43:10where they hey how are you you're in La
43:12now hey yeah where are you gonna live
43:14I'm like I don't know and then like so
43:16yeah fires did you are you okay yeah
43:18yeah and I just so so let's do this how
43:22where are you going to live I I think I
43:23even probably asked you or everyone's
43:25asking me because I posted on instagam
43:28take a person in the gym you don't know
43:30anything about them and I know context
43:32it's going to be dependent on what you
43:33want to learn about them what what types
43:35of things do you wish you could connect
43:36over more and I know there's this sense
43:38of like whatever they want but like you
43:39clearly care about business you clearly
43:41care like what opportunities do you want
43:44to open up for yourself do you want to
43:45find a surf buddy do you want to find a
43:46what is
43:47it yeah so in that particular
43:49conversation I think because I'm kind of
43:51new here maybe what I would have been
43:54interested in is I actually really
43:55wanted to know something about their
43:57professional life that I that they told
43:59me about previously but also I'm like
44:00looking for friends here yeah cool
44:02things to do people to see new networks
44:04amazing you got it so so it's where are
44:08you going to live be like honestly I'm
44:09not sure I'm looking for cool places to
44:11live cool places to go new networks of
44:13people what I should have [ __ ] said
44:15that yeah it's and it's so I think it's
44:17what we mentioned earlier but the thing
44:18that happens is that people try to get
44:20through rather than connect and I think
44:22that informs a lot of the questions that
44:24people have they say yeah but couldn't
44:25it go wrong it's like yes it could but
44:27you have to consider that not connecting
44:29is also it going wrong like the number
44:31of chances that you meet to connect with
44:33your potential spouse potential
44:34incredible friend I don't want to be uh
44:37nightmarish or scary for people but like
44:39the amount of incredible people that
44:41have walked in and out of all of our
44:43Lives is saddening right because we
44:47didn't say the thing and we it's like oh
44:48my gosh you guys would have connected so
44:50well if just one of you could have like
44:52put it out there the thing that you were
44:53interested in but it just doesn't happen
44:5699% of the time time there's a certain
44:58individual listening right now
45:00who really wants to connect in fact they
45:03feel so disconnected and so lonely in
45:05their life and they're hearing
45:07everything you say but there's a barrier
45:09that has always stopped
45:11them adding one more sentence going
45:14deeper with the stranger and no matter
45:16how much they listen to this kind of
45:18advice they still go through their life
45:19in this state of kind of getting through
45:22life not connecting do you have any idea
45:25a is that true like does that person
45:27exist and have you met them in your
45:28audience and be like what is step one to
45:32starting to break down that barrier
45:33because I think I even feel a little bit
45:35as you were speaking I was thinking yeah
45:37like why didn't I say that in the gym
45:38today like what is it about me that
45:41meant that I just tried to get through
45:42and get back to the
45:44weights this it's like a bad habit or I
45:47think there's a number of things in your
45:50case and I've experience this I I don't
45:51know if you have this but um when you
45:54get into a position that is a lovely one
45:56to be in of relative power right like
45:58people want to come on the show they
46:00want to know what you're up to they
46:01maybe want to go to the parties that
46:02you're going to one of the ways to not
46:06to avoid having to constantly set and
46:08enforce boundaries is to shine less
46:10bright and so I don't know if you feel
46:13this but I notice myself not following
46:16some of my own advice these days and
46:18when I reflect on why it's because if I
46:20say that I have a YouTube channel and
46:22they say how many subscribers and I say
46:24how many subscribers then they want my
46:26phone number then then they want my this
46:28and in order just to circumvent all of
46:31that uh you know yeah I like work from
46:34home you know I like I I will shine less
46:36bright and I realized this uh years ago
46:39when I was doing breakdowns and I was
46:40doing all these famous people I'm like
46:42I'm going to do one of Justin Bieber
46:43because he was such a bright excited
46:45young kid and then I looked at him at
46:47the time he was 16 to 18 he was on Jimmy
46:49Fallon and he was so flat and I was like
46:51why is he so flat and then he cracked a
46:54joke and the audience
46:57it wasn't even funny it was God and so
47:00any if if you get to a position where
47:02any sort of output from you CS in this
47:05just wave of attention and energy people
47:08often shut that down which is a sad
47:10thing and I want to stop doing that and
47:12people shut themselves down yes they
47:13shut themselves down because then you
47:15have to have boundaries and you have to
47:17tell that person hey I don't give out my
47:19Instagram or I don't want to trade
47:21numbers or you have to find a way to
47:23navigate disappointing other people that
47:26are interested and going having a deeper
47:28connection that you don't feel it with
47:30them does that happen with like
47:31beautiful people as well cuz I almost
47:33certainly you know what I me I imagine
47:34they just get it all the time everywhere
47:36they're going people are trying to
47:37connect yeah well and I think you know
47:39in terms of things to watch out for I
47:41didn't realize this cuz I do think it's
47:44not necessarily a good thing but young
47:46women I think realize this as they hit
47:48puberty that there's going to be people
47:50interested in you that don't really want
47:53to get to know you right they're
47:54interested in you because you're
47:55beautiful they're interested in you for
47:56these other reasons same thing tends not
47:57to happen with young
47:59men and so I got to 19 and I wasn't
48:05wanted in any of the locations that I
48:07was at right and so there was a lady's
48:10night but I couldn't get in there was
48:11like and so people were very honest with
48:13me I got direct clear feedback about the
48:15type of people that wanted to connect
48:16with me and if someone did it was only
48:19ever because they wanted the pleasure of
48:20my company there was not there was
48:22nothing to get from knowing me when
48:25things started to Boom I was not
48:28prepared for the ways that people adjust
48:32and manipulate when they perceive that
48:34someone has power and so people entered
48:38my life that I thought liked me and I
48:42realized later liked my ability to
48:45provide a paycheck or my ability to do
48:47this and uh it was very sad for me it
48:51was really really difficult to
48:52experience but um as I withdrew and
48:55stopped making vide
48:58and uh said you know I'm not running the
49:00I'm not running this business my
49:01co-founder is going to take you know
49:03he's in charge of the paychecks from
49:04here on out the people that almost
49:07immediately withdrew from me was I'm
49:09very grateful to have seen it but was
49:12unprepared for
49:14the uh transactional nature that can
49:17that can happen when when you start to
49:18accumulate power and I say that because
49:21if there's aect particularly young men
49:22but it's true of women as well just be
49:24aware that as you grow and hopefully
49:29become more powerful in the world the
49:32level of uh deception and the level of
49:36even just in in the lightest like people
49:38trying to please you and make you happy
49:40is going to escalate and you're going to
49:42need to develop a discernment that I
49:45just never needed when I was in my young
49:4820s to understand who's trying to
49:51manipulate you and get things from you
49:53and what's real yes to understand this
49:56the subtle difference between like who
49:57likes me for me and who likes me for
49:59these status things that I can am
50:01connected to or can provide and uh yeah
50:06I mean is there any such advice you can
50:09give someone to figure out whether
50:10they're being used or the relationship
50:14is authentic and real yeah well I can
50:18give some not to do that's where I'm at
50:20today this is Niche but if you're a
50:22business owner be very careful about
50:25making a single I I made a single person
50:28my like point of contact to the business
50:32and that meant that any feedback that
50:35came from like the front lines of the
50:36business was coming up funneled through
50:38him and spoken to me and any like thing
50:40that I said to him was then distributed
50:42to the business and I wasn't doing
50:44enough direct connecting with people on
50:46the ground and what happened over a
50:48course of years is I learned and I
50:50didn't find this four years is that I
50:52was being uh a generous word would be
50:55like there was some fudge of the truth
50:57and and then there were outright lies be
50:59very very careful
51:01about making one person your eyes and
51:05ears in any aspect of your life but I
51:07did that in the business and didn't you
51:10know touch base and connect directly
51:11with people and say hey is this how are
51:13you feeling is this true and I and I
51:14lost those direct connections and it
51:17wasn't required in a company of my size
51:18it was just a a foolish novice
51:20entrepreneur mistake that I'd made
51:22happen so many times it happens a lot in
51:24business people listening to this now if
51:25you've got if you working in a business
51:27and there's a manager in between you and
51:29maybe the top of the business managers
51:32have a tremendous power to control
51:34narratives narratives yeah everyone
51:37wants power I would say I think that's a
51:38fair statement pretty much everyone
51:39wants power and we can Define whatever
51:41power means but I guess there's two
51:43paths to attaining power there's
51:45delivering value for people and being
51:47useful and then there's what you
51:50described there which
51:53is is manipulating the situation
51:57so that you're perceived as being
51:59necessary mhm yeah and it's it's uh
52:01making sure that your name is on the
52:05project right there's in a group project
52:07there's there's always people that are
52:08doing the majority of the work and
52:10there's people that are making sure that
52:11they're presenting the most important
52:13piece or making sure that their name is
52:14on the project narcissists sociopaths
52:17some of some of the videos you've made
52:18on your channel before speak to this
52:21type of behavior yes what were the
52:23things that you missed that are like
52:24characteristic of narcissist cuz I know
52:27yeah you've made videos about this
52:29subject where you analyze other
52:30interactions with other people but for
52:32someone who might not be aware of some
52:35of those subtle cues what kinds of
52:37things my co-founder and I had several
52:39conversations about this person where we
52:41said man and we had these dozens of
52:44times I wouldn't be shocked to find out
52:46that he was lying on his job application
52:48and we would just say that to each other
52:50and so if you find that there's just a
52:52doubt that that you don't believe that
52:55somebody says that they were very
52:57successful in a thing and just doesn't
52:58look like it you know there's that
53:00phrase in in business which is is if
53:02there's doubt there's no doubt when it
53:03comes to hiring and firing I didn't
53:06Follow That So just pay attention to
53:08your doubts and if you need to write
53:09them down but it's the voicing of it in
53:12a weird way was a way of blowing off
53:14steam and not addressing the core issues
53:16so that was one thing and then I think
53:18the last thing is it's this um I felt
53:21guilty verifying I felt guilty verifying
53:24his job application I felt guilty going
53:28to the guy that he said had offered him
53:29a job whose number I had and saying hey
53:32wanted to check on this because that
53:34would have been an indication that I
53:36didn't trust him and it was my way of
53:38saying I trust you I know you won't hurt
53:41me and maybe you can trust me that I
53:42won't hurt you too never mind that they
53:45were not
53:46reciprocal relationships but the reason
53:49that I'm so interested in these sorts of
53:51things is
53:53because I had by the time I was 28 or 29
53:56built the life that I dreamed of when I
53:57was 18 I had the girlfriend that I
53:59wanted I had more money than I dreamed
54:00of I had the dream job
54:03and it fell apart because these core
54:08things hadn't been addressed and when I
54:10say fell apart it wasn't like the world
54:11took it from me it was like my own ey
54:13fell apart in my ability to sustain them
54:15or it fell together thank you that's the
54:18truth no that's the truth man is um I'm
54:21so grateful for the ways in which it
54:23broke down and I think there's many
54:26times in my life and when I've seen
54:29other people where they get fired or the
54:31thing doesn't work out or the first
54:32business fails and you're like oh it
54:33fell apart and you're right it's uh you
54:36get five years down the line it's like
54:37no man that that felt together yeah
54:38because if it wasn't you being your true
54:41aligned authentic self whatever that
54:42means then it wasn't real anyway it was
54:45something you were holding together and
54:46it sounded like it was exhausting to
54:48hold that together yes unconsciously
54:50life shouldn't be exhausting to hold
54:51together so if you're if you're
54:52exhausted holding your life together in
54:54the relationships of people then it's
54:56not sustainable and it's not real yeah
54:58well I'm curious and you're taking
55:00business on this because I've since
55:01found business mentors that there's so
55:03many mentors that are like here's how to
55:04build your business so that you can sell
55:06it and the implicit understanding there
55:08is that this thing is a pain in the butt
55:11you don't want to have it and you'll be
55:13happier when you can get rid of it and
55:14exchange for a lot of money and there's
55:16a guy Joe Hudson who I've mentioned
55:17before who talks about you know what if
55:20a billion dollar business was not a
55:21business that was valued at a billion
55:23dollars but it's a business that you
55:25wouldn't sell for a billion dollar
55:27the things that you got to do like if
55:29you had to sell it and you could never
55:30do that thing again you wouldn't take
55:31that deal and when you think how would I
55:35run this business if it had to be my
55:36billion dollar business today what sort
55:38of things would I allow myself to do
55:39what sort of things would I cut out it's
55:42a total paradigm shift on business what
55:44an amazing question to ask
55:46yourself what an amazing question to ask
55:48yourself so the way that I heard that
55:51was if I wanted to run this business
55:53like a business that I would never be
55:55prepared to sell what the decisions I
55:56would make today MH okay so you'd get
55:59rid of the toxic people that are
56:00destroying your piece irrespective of
56:02how many clients you might lose or the
56:04short-term net loss of that or how it
56:06might disgruntle people um you would
56:09probably set a pace that you could go at
56:12for 50 years and you'd probably
56:14disregard like metrics and growth
56:16numbers and stuff like that yeah you'd
56:18focus on doing work that you truly love
56:20not what the audience want not what the
56:22clients are paying you for but what you
56:23truly love and
56:27you'd work with stakeholders and
56:28partners that treated you with the the
56:30respect and the courtesy and the um the
56:35the same energy love curiosity fun
56:40that you need to do this for 50 years so
56:43you like wouldn't work with [ __ ]
56:44yeah even if they were paying you a lot
56:45of money you'd say no to a couple of
56:47million dollars I guess that's my answer
56:49to that question yeah that's that's
56:52that's the answer to that question oh is
56:54it okay right I mean of course it is is
56:56uh it's the opposite of what you would
56:58do if you were building to cell which is
57:00I'm going to you know get someone else
57:02to be the frontman cuz I don't want to
57:03do it I'm going to have them do the
57:04boring thing that I don't like it's yeah
57:06instead of no no no like why are we
57:07doing these things that we don't like
57:09you wouldn't tolerate tolerate there
57:11would be zero Toler and you may or may
57:14not wind up with a billion dollars but
57:15what I have found is as I lean into that
57:17that's where these leaps and
57:19breakthroughs are it's linear thinking
57:20to figure out how to please the audience
57:22and please other people in most cases
57:24but there's these exponential leaps that
57:26you make when you're like what do I want
57:27to see in the world that's where you go
57:29from zero to one that's where you make
57:30the thing that has never been made
57:32because you want it yeah so it's a hard
57:35place to get to you've got to have I
57:37think life failure a few times before
57:38you kind of figure out what you've
57:39described there um and I can certainly
57:42rela in my life to to that so even when
57:44I think about this podcast I speak to
57:45Jack I think I had this conversation
57:46with Jack the other day I was like in
57:48order for me to do this for like 20
57:51years what am I going to need to do
57:53today what am I going to need to
57:54sacrifice today to do it for 20 years
57:56and I can kind of tell you like just a
57:58Topline thing is when a guest request
58:00comes on my list and it says they have
58:02this has happened they have 70 million
58:05followers and their stories there what
58:07they've done Etc and it's like this
58:09Steve we know that this is going to get
58:11huge numbers but I don't want to sit
58:14there for two and a half hours and speak
58:15to this person because I have no
58:17interest in [ __ ] pop music in the
58:18South South America I know that the
58:21long-term decision to do the show for 20
58:23years means in that moment I have to say
58:25no mhm
58:28because if there's multiple days in a
58:30row where I show up to this set and I
58:31sit down and I wasn't looking forward to
58:33it I'm going to end up where you said
58:35you ended up which is that feeling of
58:36like burnt out broken yeah lack of
58:39meaning what gives you the strength to
58:42say no to The Superficial win when
58:46especially when there's like a this
58:48would be great for you wisdom of [ __ ]
58:51up so many times in my life when I did
58:53that burn and also being able to look
58:55forward at someone like Joe Rogan and
58:57watch his interviews where he talks
58:58about this and realizing that this
59:02principle of if you want to go far you
59:04have to play like long-term games and
59:07make long-term decisions and so now
59:09knowing what a short-term decision is
59:11versus a long-term decision and actually
59:12being really aligned with Jack who's who
59:14runs this show because me and Jack are
59:16aligned on these things now quite
59:18intuitively and we've kind of learned
59:20together we've like made the short-term
59:22decision going [ __ ] that was a bad idea
59:25so you kind of
59:26you kind of build this sort of
59:28collective wisdom that the right thing
59:29to do for the long-term health of this
59:32show is having a set principles and I
59:34really wish people understood that
59:36because especially when the show gets
59:37big there's so much pressure to change
59:39I've got a good example I wasn't going
59:40to say this but I think I should
59:41probably share it because this is the DI
59:42here and that's we me to be sharing our
59:44Diaries here on um the last episode we
59:46uploaded was a debate format with four
59:48guys on it and we're talking about the
59:50world and stuff it's the first time
59:51we've ever done that and I had a meeting
59:54with some people um the day after that
59:57episode came out and someone in the room
59:59was saying oh we should add a woman to
1:00:02the panel because the Optics are
1:00:05bad and I remember what I said in that
1:00:07room I said we should never ever do
1:00:09something purely for Optics the reason
1:00:11why we should add a woman to the panel
1:00:12that we just did and this is something
1:00:13we will do in future is because we
1:00:15genuinely believe it will make the
1:00:17conversation better and I said to them
1:00:19and there was 12 of my teammates who
1:00:20work on this team in the room I said if
1:00:22we ever do stuff for Optics we slowly
1:00:24slip away from our integrity and it's
1:00:26there's a paradox there because you
1:00:28think the high integrity thing to do is
1:00:31to like cater to Optics what things look
1:00:35like but actually the high integrity
1:00:36thing to do is to ignore virtue
1:00:39signaling and to do what's best for the
1:00:41conversation and I just reiterated in
1:00:43that room that like the reason why in
1:00:44the future we're going to make these
1:00:45panels more diverse is because we
1:00:47believe that it's better for the
1:00:50audience it's better for the
1:00:51conversation that's the only reason
1:00:52we'll ever do it and that's a prime
1:00:54example of
1:00:56learning over time that you've got to
1:00:58ignore virtue signaling you've got to
1:01:00ignore because these things come and go
1:01:02what's virtuous today will be count like
1:01:04cancelable tomorrow and you've got to
1:01:05stay anchored to a set of principles
1:01:07yeah uh yeah we digress no we we do not
1:01:11at all that is the second six
1:01:13charismatic mindsets that I talk about
1:01:14that is the second which is I care more
1:01:16about my character than my reputation
1:01:18let's do that then what are these six
1:01:19charismatic mindsets so we talked a
1:01:23little bit about the uh the body
1:01:24language and the stuff and really I land
1:01:26much more in the the mindsets and the
1:01:28ways of being and this is this is to me
1:01:29closer to the core first one is no
1:01:32matter what I will be okay and I feeling
1:01:35nervous on the way to this conversation
1:01:37that we're going to have I'm in the car
1:01:38getting over here I'm thinking do I need
1:01:39to
1:01:40prepare no matter what I'll be okay
1:01:43right I go in here and this is true in
1:01:45any social scenario we can often bring
1:01:48life or death Stakes to the interview to
1:01:50asking the girl out to whatever it is
1:01:52literally just saying the phrase in your
1:01:54head yourself no matter what I will be
1:01:56okay has this calming clarifying thing
1:01:58that helps you focus on what you
1:01:59actually want to do and get out of this
1:02:02circumstance and helps you stop focusing
1:02:04on how do I be safe because how do I be
1:02:06safe is how do I do less how do I say
1:02:08less and just kill any chance of
1:02:10connection right so that's the first one
1:02:12second I care more about my character
1:02:13than my
1:02:14reputation it's very easy for would have
1:02:17been like for you in that moment to Oh
1:02:20shoot what are people going to think the
1:02:21Optics of this are not good the
1:02:23leadership that you demonstrated by not
1:02:26just disagreeing but by revealing your
1:02:28character will pay dividends not just in
1:02:31how you guys handle Optics it teaches
1:02:33everyone on the team what matters which
1:02:36is fundamentally the the character what
1:02:39is the case not what looks like it is
1:02:41the case and you also were able to bring
1:02:43it back and I think this is the thing
1:02:45where we're talking about listening to
1:02:46criticism is like you didn't just hear
1:02:48it and reject it no we're not going to
1:02:49have a woman on the podcast it was if we
1:02:52do that we do it for the right reasons
1:02:53right so I care more about my character
1:02:56and also the Optics of oh I screwed up
1:02:57now I have to fix it or I screwed up I
1:02:59have to dig my heels in I think a lot of
1:03:00this is going on right now with Elon
1:03:02Musk and and the solute that he did is I
1:03:05can't I can't say hey I made a mistake I
1:03:08can't say I didn't mean that by it I
1:03:10can't do any of that I have to dig in
1:03:12because I don't want to be seen to be
1:03:13weak or I don't want to be seen to be
1:03:15this salute thing though I this is let's
1:03:19do it it I'm I'm right in this video
1:03:22yeah no so so Elon Musk if you've ever
1:03:25seen him on stage M he is a very
1:03:27eccentric totally a little bit awkward
1:03:30sometimes individual who goes up on
1:03:31stage and say it's like and literally
1:03:33seen videos where he's
1:03:35like and you know you on the red carpet
1:03:37I don't know if you saw that it's like
1:03:39that red carpet uh walk that he did
1:03:41where he starts being going like like
1:03:43this yeah he's making weird faces this
1:03:45is this is him so I'm not defending him
1:03:47at all but if you have a lens of empathy
1:03:53and you look at the bigger picture
1:03:56and you also say listen this guy has no
1:03:58track record of not saying what he
1:04:01thinks so if he tells me that that's
1:04:04wasn't what he was doing in that moment
1:04:06he has no track record of like holding
1:04:09his tongue yeah and I I it's funny
1:04:12because I I consider myself to be
1:04:14apolitical but one of the things that
1:04:15really turned me off when I saw the
1:04:16commentary around that was the left side
1:04:18of politics didn't seem to exert
1:04:22any um what's the word
1:04:27it was just all the reaction was so
1:04:28predictable I watched the video and and
1:04:30thought oh no he's just being El on mus
1:04:32that's what he does on stage just a bit
1:04:33wacky and then the whole like oh no he's
1:04:35a Nazi this is a Nazi salute I just
1:04:37thought I I find it to be disingenuous
1:04:39yeah well there's a ton here politically
1:04:43I think this is why the left loses
1:04:44elections yeah
1:04:46because there's so much winning there's
1:04:49so much happening that you could
1:04:51critique today Trump launched a meme
1:04:52coin you know what I mean like there's
1:04:54like you could speak on so many things
1:04:57and to put the focus on this is why they
1:04:59continue to lose elections in the United
1:05:00States of America because I agree with
1:05:02you I don't I don't see any reason to
1:05:04believe that this is a
1:05:06hidden uh reveal of elon's Politics as
1:05:10regards the Third Reich at all it's like
1:05:13the guy's a weird dude who moves weird
1:05:15and he literally afterwards said my
1:05:16heart goes out to you and his response
1:05:19to it on Twitter which is Complicated by
1:05:20the mass media right because there's I'm
1:05:22going to make this video too the ability
1:05:25to say sorry in personal relationships
1:05:29is fundamental and critical and if you
1:05:31can't own your mistakes and apologize to
1:05:33someone you will erode every
1:05:35relationship that you ever have because
1:05:37you will make mistakes and if you can't
1:05:38repair them they just it's like a bridge
1:05:40that never gets any maintenance it
1:05:42doesn't work do you think he should have
1:05:43said sorry this is the question when
1:05:45we're talking about a couple things mass
1:05:47media and then I think there's a there's
1:05:50a space between sorry and that wasn't my
1:05:52intention and instead what he did was
1:05:55cuz I I think I think what he should
1:05:56have said was that wasn't my intention
1:05:58what he said instead was he made a bunch
1:06:00of uh puns about like different Nazi
1:06:03stuff like random things uh but do I
1:06:06think he should say sorry no I don't
1:06:07think he should say sorry if he said
1:06:09sorry can you imagine the mainstream
1:06:10media exactly oh my gosh exactly so this
1:06:12is the problem I'm going to make this
1:06:13video which is if you look at the most
1:06:15this is this is tragic the way that we
1:06:18have
1:06:20culturally ruined saying sorry like with
1:06:23our media because if you look at the
1:06:25most powerful men Andrew Tate Donald
1:06:27Trump Elon Musk they all got the memo
1:06:30never apologize never ever ever it
1:06:32doesn't matter what you did never
1:06:34apologize and what you get as a result
1:06:37more power right it it like because when
1:06:40you do say sorry even if it's
1:06:42appropriate even if it would have been
1:06:43appropriate in a private circumstance to
1:06:45do that the outcome in the media Loop if
1:06:48you look at um you could take someone
1:06:51going back to like Aziz anari who had a
1:06:53me too situation where the girl was
1:06:56unhappy with how the date went but it
1:06:58was all consensual but she felt
1:06:59pressured by him and he went on like
1:07:01very deep heartfelt
1:07:03apology destroyed you know end of his
1:07:06show completely over for him years later
1:07:09people look back at that story with a
1:07:10different cultural lens and
1:07:13go that okay I yes you're sorry for that
1:07:16of course that makes sense because
1:07:17that's that's the appropriate response
1:07:19is I'm really sorry I didn't that wasn't
1:07:20what I wanted that wasn't my intent I
1:07:22didn't want it to go that way um or I
1:07:24didn't want you to feel that way as well
1:07:27and that human response translated to
1:07:30the mass media is so destructive to your
1:07:33career which is it's really tragic
1:07:35because that's the type of thing that
1:07:37you would want to have two people hash
1:07:39out and find resolution to themselves
1:07:41but doesn't appear to be possible in in
1:07:45um Global media today it happens on both
1:07:48sides it's the right mischaracterizing
1:07:50the left the left mischaracterizing the
1:07:52right and I especially through this
1:07:54election cycle I just saw over and over
1:07:56again because there someone who
1:07:57genuinely believes when I'm at home
1:07:59alone and I'm watching these videos
1:08:00genuinely believes that I'm
1:08:02apolitical I find ver I find good things
1:08:05on both sides I find things on the left
1:08:07that I think that's that's um that's
1:08:09that's correct and I find things on the
1:08:11right especially as it relates to some
1:08:12things around business that I think okay
1:08:13that's I think that's the best thing and
1:08:16I look at both sides I think objectively
1:08:18and I'm saying I think because I never
1:08:19really know my own biases and I think
1:08:21you're both lying about each other mhm
1:08:23and this is the kind of world we've
1:08:24gotten into now where
1:08:26as you say it's like there's no there's
1:08:28almost like there's no hope for truth
1:08:30anymore it seems do you own a business
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1:09:28on LinkedIn ads is Trump charismatic the
1:09:31most charismatic yeah
1:09:34so if we interpret Charisma as the
1:09:39ability to succeed based on force of
1:09:41Personality right if that's one view of
1:09:43it the ability to influence and succeed
1:09:45you have to give it to people that you
1:09:47might not agree with and Donald Trump
1:09:49absolutely gets that so does Alexandri
1:09:51kazio Cortez for the record right these
1:09:53people that are not there for their
1:09:55technical prowess but are there for
1:09:57their ability to speak definitely I
1:09:59think when I've what I've heard is that
1:10:01he's likable in person like a lot of
1:10:04people that meet him like him and he has
1:10:06this thing that I haven't totally
1:10:07identified that drives the left crazy
1:10:10but it needs to be rather than being
1:10:12demonized I think it needs I want to
1:10:13explore it I want to understand what it
1:10:15is
1:10:16is he's like very tough to stay mad at
1:10:20in the sense that what he did he he's
1:10:23repeatedly in his base forgiven for
1:10:25things that would have been upsetting to
1:10:27them and would be upsetting if any other
1:10:29Republican said or did the things that
1:10:31he does there is a relationship I think
1:10:34that he has with shame and so if you
1:10:36look it's like the first debate that he
1:10:37ever did boom here comes the question
1:10:40you call women fat pigs you know this is
1:10:44career Ender right here what are you
1:10:45gonna say you've called women you don't
1:10:47like fat pigs dogs slobs and disgusting
1:10:52animals your Twitter account only
1:10:56well the audience erupts and Megan Kelly
1:10:57can't get a word and and it was an
1:11:00entire campaign of that like Teflon
1:11:02nothing sticks to him and
1:11:05so you don't I don't you don't have to
1:11:07like it for there to be something
1:11:09meaningful there and I actually want to
1:11:10go back because I think the most
1:11:11impressive thing that he's done is not
1:11:12win the presidency I think the Democrats
1:11:15fielded some less than excellent
1:11:17candidates but my God the way he took
1:11:19over the Republican primaries was insane
1:11:22because if you go back and watch those
1:11:23debates which I currently am the first
1:11:25time the first time I watched it
1:11:28entirely against him he doesn't have an
1:11:29audience on his side there is no one
1:11:31that is on his side and to watch him go
1:11:34down the line take out Jeb take out Ted
1:11:36take out Marco and win the entire
1:11:38audience Blow by blow is fascinating to
1:11:42me you're someone that analyzes this
1:11:44yeah so what did you because I've
1:11:47watched all of those debates in fact
1:11:48I've watched them so many times there's
1:11:50Republican debates with like Jeb and his
1:11:52weak energy and um I can't remember what
1:11:56he was calling Ted Cruz it's like Lion
1:11:57Cruz or something lion Ted yeah lion Ted
1:12:00I've watched all of those but you watch
1:12:02it and you go this is atypical Behavior
1:12:04this is not how to be a president what
1:12:06is he doing right there I think that is
1:12:09the thing he's like he is him through
1:12:11and through like there's not a crack in
1:12:14him and so many times you this is uh
1:12:17when people criticize you or criticize
1:12:19anybody one of the things you'll see is
1:12:22let's say that there's a comedian and
1:12:23they're on stage and somebody's heckling
1:12:25say you can't tell that joke that's bad
1:12:28if you crack in that moment more of the
1:12:31audience say o I don't know if he should
1:12:32have said that but when you double down
1:12:35and triple down and quadruple down and
1:12:36endlessy down you actually take more
1:12:38people with you and this guy doesn't
1:12:40crack he anytime he's attacked I don't
1:12:44think he has defense in his repertoire
1:12:46like every time it's offense so whenever
1:12:49somebody comes at him he doesn't respond
1:12:50he barely responds that's not true he
1:12:52goes you should see what he's doing you
1:12:54know it's always always offense he's
1:12:57willing to brawl in those situations and
1:12:59I think you we are animals there is a
1:13:03especially in that Republican primary
1:13:04with people like Jeb there's a simple
1:13:06thing of like oh this guy just owned
1:13:07that dude right he just completely made
1:13:10him seem like a child who was
1:13:12interacting with an adult like as he
1:13:15whimpered away or trailed off this is
1:13:17something that I teach people is when
1:13:19you're speaking just as a matter of
1:13:22habit and you can you can break this
1:13:23rule once you've established it but if
1:13:25if you're a shy person finish your
1:13:27sentence before you let someone cut you
1:13:29off find a period and then the other
1:13:31person can jump in but if you're but if
1:13:33we're talking and you jump in at and I
1:13:36just s Trail away it's has this sense of
1:13:40fragility weakness and it encourages
1:13:41people to speak over you if you look
1:13:43especially at the first debate the
1:13:45people that he was arguing against got
1:13:47run off constantly and they wait they
1:13:49hoped that the moderator would bring
1:13:50them back into the debate and it's not
1:13:52ideal that politics works like that but
1:13:54it it was
1:13:55it was a bludgeoning game it was just
1:13:57like he makes these people
1:14:00look weak in front of them as he as he
1:14:03dictates the pace and what's going to
1:14:05happen and he's not listening to anybody
1:14:07and the audience starts lining up behind
1:14:08him it was yeah I have to go back and
1:14:11the video will have much more precise
1:14:13moments of this but that is what I've
1:14:15seen is just I've started to compile
1:14:17things so that was the second that's the
1:14:20second of the Charisma we're gonna do
1:14:22this number three imp well so I'm glad
1:14:25that we're doing it in this order
1:14:26because it gets the caveats out of the
1:14:27way which is the third one is I have
1:14:29impeccable honesty and integrity MH and
1:14:32you can see how exactly what we were
1:14:34talking about is like well not really
1:14:36there's there's ways in which power
1:14:37moves not always following honesty and
1:14:41integrity but when I think of that
1:14:42deeper form of Charisma the kind we like
1:14:45Socrates Jesus you know like the the the
1:14:49people that are not just charismatic for
1:14:50a time but are charismatic forever and
1:14:51we look to as Paragons of who we want to
1:14:53be and have this leader ship quality
1:14:55that is not just transactional but moves
1:14:58people to become better versions of
1:15:01themselves which is ultimately what I
1:15:02aspire to and I suppose I've used
1:15:04Charisma in two different terms one is
1:15:05can you influence and the other is do
1:15:07you awaken the best in people if we're
1:15:10using that second term I am honest and I
1:15:13have high integrity is fundamental to
1:15:15that
1:15:16because what I found is that even if you
1:15:18tell small lies for instance you're
1:15:21running late you text your friend I'm on
1:15:23the way not on the way you got to brush
1:15:25your teeth you got to get ready um you
1:15:29train this learning in yourself that is
1:15:31sometimes I lie sometimes I'm not to be
1:15:33trusted and when you lie sometimes you
1:15:35hurt your ability to speak with
1:15:37conviction all the time because there's
1:15:38some part of your brain that is going am
1:15:40I telling the truth am I saying the the
1:15:43real thing because sometimes I don't and
1:15:45so it it influences Your Capacity to
1:15:48influence with conviction and for people
1:15:49to know that you stand by your belief
1:15:51what's really interesting um is
1:15:54something exactly what you've said I I
1:15:56noticed in a friend of mine um and I had
1:15:59to say we're really great friends and um
1:16:02we've been friends for a long long time
1:16:03but I can't trust you because I see you
1:16:07telling small lies to other
1:16:10people that's so brave of you which
1:16:13makes me think that you tell when you
1:16:14speak to me I have to figure out what
1:16:16the truth
1:16:17is and this is a this is a this is
1:16:19something which I think ties into point
1:16:20three here which is If You observe
1:16:21someone willing to tell tiny lies to
1:16:24other people even exaggerating stories
1:16:27knowingly when you know the truth you
1:16:29know that X didn't happen you go oh my
1:16:32God maybe the things they tell me as
1:16:34well aren't yep true yeah so it erod it
1:16:36erods it in all different places one of
1:16:38the things that I didn't catch early on
1:16:40that you just brought up was I sometimes
1:16:43had like there were things that I
1:16:44wouldn't say like I wouldn't have that
1:16:46conversation with a friend I wouldn't
1:16:48bring that to them and that is a lapse
1:16:51in Integrity because that's look I have
1:16:53this opinion I have this feeling I
1:16:55you're someone I care about but I'm not
1:16:57going to say it to you because I don't
1:16:58want to create friction or I don't want
1:16:59to do this I'm not going to lie to you
1:17:01about I'm not going to tell you I trust
1:17:02you implicitly but I'm just not going to
1:17:03bring it up it took me nine years to get
1:17:05to that point with this person it's hard
1:17:07it's very hard but when you do
1:17:09that God the it is such a deep form of
1:17:12love it is such a deep form of respect
1:17:16and it respects the deepest part of that
1:17:18person which is I know that these this
1:17:21these are your behaviors but there's a
1:17:22you in there that is deeper than these
1:17:25habits that you have and I want to speak
1:17:27to that person because I want you to
1:17:28know that I would like to connect with
1:17:30you and I would like to trust you but I
1:17:31can't because of this I think that is an
1:17:33aspect of friendship that is often
1:17:35overlooked which is you've got your
1:17:36friends that you have fun with you've
1:17:37got your friends that celebrate you you
1:17:39know which friends do you have that will
1:17:42lovingly pull you aside and tell you
1:17:44these sorts of things there are usually
1:17:46vanishingly few and when you get them if
1:17:49you're someone who watches this show
1:17:51probably it's deeply appreciated
1:17:53especially when it's done in a loving
1:17:54respectful way so when you can be that
1:17:56for someone else it's like it's yeah
1:17:58it's it's a relationship maker but
1:18:00you're right in what you said earlier I
1:18:02have to be the one that leads with it
1:18:04what's that phrase you used go there
1:18:06first that's the six one
1:18:07yeah so number four so number four um I
1:18:11don't need to convince anyone of
1:18:14anything interesting yeah so a lot of
1:18:17times we think I need this girl to like
1:18:20me I need to make this sale if this
1:18:21employee joins the company it's going to
1:18:23be great you know I need
1:18:25I need this particular individual to
1:18:27like
1:18:28me all the tips and tricks and mindsets
1:18:31and whatever it is that we're talking
1:18:32about today I hope you take broadly to
1:18:34your life to increase the percentage to
1:18:37increase the odds that are something
1:18:39good but with any particular individual
1:18:41you do not want to drop into convincing
1:18:43them you want to live invitation to
1:18:46people there's an invitation to connect
1:18:48there's an invitation to sell I'm
1:18:49willing to go there and tell you more
1:18:51about the product I'm willing to share
1:18:52more about the things that I care about
1:18:54but when you get stuck on convincing
1:18:57people they feel that there's something
1:19:00missing in you that needs something from
1:19:03them right and when you do that
1:19:06particularly with loose connections it's
1:19:07very alienating now there are times when
1:19:11it's this isn't about convincing where
1:19:12it's appropriate in a relationship with
1:19:14like a husband and a wife to communicate
1:19:16clearly your needs this doesn't mean you
1:19:17convince them but it means you do state
1:19:19what you're wanting and needing in the
1:19:21relationship but there is like
1:19:22convincing is when you won't drop it
1:19:24when you won't put put it down that you
1:19:25won't accept someone's answer as it is
1:19:28and much more important than convincing
1:19:30is filtering and this is you know you
1:19:32could have tried to convince everyone in
1:19:33your initial friend group that they
1:19:34should all be entrepreneurs they should
1:19:36all do this and you'd still be there
1:19:37today working on getting the next person
1:19:40to agree you have no businesses and no
1:19:41podcast but when you stop trying to
1:19:43convince and you reveal yourself make
1:19:46invitations I'm going this way who would
1:19:48like to come with me I'm selling this
1:19:50product who would like to buy it yes I'm
1:19:52going to learn how to talk about it in a
1:19:53compelling and interesting way that
1:19:54speaks directly to your problems but I'm
1:19:56not going to convince you so much more
1:19:58powerful this is like a pretty
1:20:00incredible sales tip I was thinking
1:20:02about even on marketing copy when you're
1:20:04trying to sell something if you're
1:20:05trying to force it down someone's throat
1:20:07versus inviting them if they're the
1:20:08right type of person for it to give it a
1:20:11try and it's the long game too like the
1:20:13short game is I need to make rent this
1:20:15month I need to make a sale and we all
1:20:16have situations in our life where we
1:20:18feel that pressure but if you build your
1:20:21business or your relationships from this
1:20:23level of I'm not going to
1:20:25anybody the sustainability of them is so
1:20:27much better CU now you don't have
1:20:29relationships that require you to be
1:20:30like come on come out tonight you know
1:20:31you want to you want to do that you have
1:20:33people that opt in when they want to and
1:20:34can step aside when they don't and your
1:20:36relationships flow much more organically
1:20:38when you drop the convincing with a
1:20:40without you energy yes people talk about
1:20:42that L yes yes Invitational yeah
1:20:44invitation energy so the fifth uh is
1:20:48that I proactively share my
1:20:50purpose and I think this this podcast
1:20:53like sets people up to do that in an
1:20:55excellent way but this is where I talk
1:20:58about early in the interaction there's
1:20:59so many times where we just don't talk
1:21:01about what we care about we talk about
1:21:03the small talk we talk about the weather
1:21:04the baseball team making sure that you
1:21:06are sharing with people the things that
1:21:08you care most deeply about and that
1:21:10you're here to do is so powerful so high
1:21:14Charisma I I believe High Charisma if
1:21:17you think I don't know if you remember
1:21:18the show but it was very influential to
1:21:19me there were these guys that Buried
1:21:20Life a long time ago when MTV used to
1:21:22run TV shows and they were guys who had
1:21:26this their own bucket list and on every
1:21:27episode they would go scratch an item
1:21:30off of their bucket list and at the end
1:21:31they would help a stranger in the street
1:21:32they would say what's an item on your
1:21:34bucket list and they would do that with
1:21:35them and in their second season one of
1:21:38their bucket list items was play
1:21:39basketball with Obama and so they walked
1:21:42around Washington DC and just said hey
1:21:45we we have this thing we're the Buried
1:21:46Life we want to play basketball with
1:21:48Obama we're trying to prove that you can
1:21:49live your dream can you help and they
1:21:51just went bang bang bang down the line
1:21:52and within like 3 days they're in a
1:21:54senator
1:21:55office right just from sharing this is
1:21:58what I'm doing this is what I care about
1:21:59can you help they didn't have anything
1:22:01to exchange didn't have anything other
1:22:03than the participation in a dream and
1:22:06when you are connected to your dream
1:22:08like the real one not the one that's
1:22:09like I want to make enough money like
1:22:11but the one that is oh my God that's
1:22:13like I want to prove to people that
1:22:15anything is possible and it's real
1:22:17people like to participate in that they
1:22:19like to give help in order to do that so
1:22:22what wound up happening is that the
1:22:24Senator reached out they set up a
1:22:26meeting and Barack flaked he didn't he
1:22:29flaked he didn't show he had something
1:22:30come up so they aired the episode and
1:22:34they never got to play with him
1:22:36except episode airs barack's in the
1:22:39white house with MTV on in the
1:22:41background and he sees these guys the
1:22:43Buried Life talking about how they want
1:22:45to play basketball with Obama and he
1:22:47contacts his Aid he says why haven't I
1:22:48play basketball with these guys yet and
1:22:50the same Aid who had hurt he said well
1:22:51we had something come up that day we
1:22:52couldn't do it he says get them out
1:22:53here' and so they went and they played
1:22:55basketball at the White House with
1:22:56Barack Obama and it came from just
1:22:59sharing their purpose with people is
1:23:01that what manifestation is I
1:23:05think if manifestation is just thinking
1:23:07happy thoughts and waiting for them to
1:23:09happen that to me is is wishful thinking
1:23:13but yeah if it's putting your energy and
1:23:16your intent and your request for support
1:23:19behind the thing that is most important
1:23:20to you like that's that's the reality of
1:23:23manifestation
1:23:25and I think why a lot of people like
1:23:27Conor McGregor you know when they when
1:23:29they hit these places they talk about
1:23:30the power of manifestation I think are
1:23:32often misinterpreted because it's not
1:23:34just seeing it or thinking about it it's
1:23:37putting your full life force behind it
1:23:39reaching out asking for help and
1:23:41contributing your part of the pie as
1:23:44well I love that yeah I love that it's
1:23:48really really important number six
1:23:50number six we've said this one before I
1:23:52go first in humanizing the interaction
1:23:54humanizing the interaction yes which is
1:23:56to say whenever you're with a group of
1:24:00people there is an expected social Norm
1:24:04right and it is usually less than people
1:24:06wish that it was it's the thing that you
1:24:08described earlier is I wish that my
1:24:09employees would get to what's really
1:24:12going on and it's the ability to be the
1:24:15first one like I told the story about my
1:24:17brother to crack the joke about the
1:24:18dragon name tag right and that that made
1:24:21everybody in the event funnier they now
1:24:23they all want to C jokes and they want
1:24:24to be playful it's the ability to give a
1:24:26compliment first sometimes people are
1:24:28afraid that it'll disrupt their status
1:24:30if they're too complimentary and we did
1:24:32talk about how at the beginning of an
1:24:34interaction it's useful to to establish
1:24:36fun trust and respect but then feel free
1:24:38to pour it on right uh compliments uh
1:24:42and then vulnerability right going first
1:24:45sharing the vulnerable thing there's a
1:24:47fine line of course between trauma
1:24:49dumping
1:24:50and just outpouring without checking if
1:24:53the other person is with you and wanting
1:24:55to go there with you but yeah to to dive
1:24:58into the thing that is unsettled in you
1:25:00or that hurts or that you're working on
1:25:02and you're not sure about man we go
1:25:05there first it's like the room
1:25:06transforms around that it's like
1:25:08everyone's like oh me too yeah I'm also
1:25:12struggling yeah I also wish we could
1:25:13laugh more yeah I also really I love
1:25:16that person's sense of style but didn't
1:25:17want to be weird and say so so when you
1:25:19go first in humanizing the interaction
1:25:20it is it is the essence of leadership
1:25:24sure sharing your imperfections mhm I
1:25:26saw this in one of your videos um that's
1:25:28kind of what you're talking about there
1:25:29right it's being willing to show The
1:25:31Chins in your own armor yes it
1:25:37is I think a lot of people like me have
1:25:40an idea that Charisma is looking like
1:25:43someone else that they admire it is and
1:25:46and they don't know that person's
1:25:47internal dialogue right they don't know
1:25:49all the internal questioning is going
1:25:50inside of them and when instead you can
1:25:54start with where you are which so people
1:25:56will ask me how do I deal with anxiety
1:25:58and one of the things that I've said and
1:25:59I've done it a handful of times on this
1:26:00podcast is speak to it like I felt
1:26:01nervous when I was coming in here like
1:26:03if the thing comes up inside of you and
1:26:05it feels like you can't say it give it a
1:26:09risk say it it often creates a depth of
1:26:12connection that that you wouldn't be
1:26:13anticipating what about humor being
1:26:15funny being funny so we haven't talked
1:26:18about this but there's um I think about
1:26:20charismatic types of people the five
1:26:23types that I think of are high
1:26:25conviction authentic funny empathetic
1:26:28and energetic and so basically High
1:26:30conviction are people that they're that
1:26:32belief storm that when they encounter
1:26:34you they just win that's Conor McGregor
1:26:36like he's 19 years old pimple-faced guy
1:26:39saying he's going to be a champion of
1:26:40the world without a waiver in his eye
1:26:43Steve Jobs the story of uh Mike Scully
1:26:45who was one of his chief officers who
1:26:47came and worked for him I don't know if
1:26:48you're familiar with it do you know what
1:26:49he said to him what' he say so they're
1:26:51having a meeting and scully's not going
1:26:53to join and he says do you want to sell
1:26:57uh want to sell flavored sugar for the
1:26:59rest of your life or do you want to come
1:27:00with me and change the world and scoty
1:27:01was at Pepsi at the time yeah he was a
1:27:03Pepsi and so he says G to yeah and just
1:27:09this this belief that I'm going to
1:27:10change the world and this solidness
1:27:12behind it that's high conviction uh
1:27:14Donald Trump is high conviction right
1:27:17guy when he loses election isn't lose
1:27:18elections right it's a level it's a
1:27:21level of certainty that he's goingon to
1:27:22win that is just next level so that's
1:27:24one type of Charisma um it's incredibly
1:27:26powerful there's downsides to it it can
1:27:29be difficult to integrate feedback and I
1:27:31think you've seen that with like Conor
1:27:32McGregor you know it's it's uh when you
1:27:35develop High conviction it's also really
1:27:37important to have some areas of your
1:27:39life where you're able to listen and
1:27:40we're able to integrate feedback anyway
1:27:42there's the authentic type this is I
1:27:44think Trump has a degree of this as well
1:27:47this is number two right number two um
1:27:50but the way that I'm it's a different
1:27:52kind of authenticity I suppose than
1:27:53Trump which is
1:27:55I trust this person exactly like to say
1:27:57what they think in front of me whether I
1:27:59like it or I don't and I think Joe Rogan
1:28:00got big off the back of this this was
1:28:02this was the like if Joe disagrees with
1:28:05that guy he's not gonna be rout but he's
1:28:07you're G to get you're going to know
1:28:08about it right uh he is going to have
1:28:13his comedian friend on that he wants to
1:28:15have on because he wants to have him on
1:28:17and when you do authenticity over a
1:28:19period of time it creates just
1:28:20unshakable trust like I've seen this
1:28:22person do things that could be damaging
1:28:24to our relationship and just continue to
1:28:26move forward so I know that they're not
1:28:28trying to please me with their behavior
1:28:30and I can trust the things that they say
1:28:31and I can trust the things that they do
1:28:33and I can rely on them I feel safe to
1:28:35rely on them that's the authentic
1:28:37type third type is funny these are these
1:28:40are your comedians these people are just
1:28:41fun to be around like you hang out with
1:28:43them they're cracking jokes the whole
1:28:45time they bring a levity everyone else
1:28:47is talking literally and they're going
1:28:48to bring in something that is just non
1:28:49literal so any comedian is going to fit
1:28:51this you're Kevin Harts you're you're
1:28:52whoever take your pick
1:28:55empathetic to me Oprah is the Paragon
1:28:58but I think you have you have become the
1:28:59Oprah of the podcasting World in many
1:29:02wayu that's a massive compliment but
1:29:05empathetic people are they do really
1:29:07really well oneon-one
1:29:08and
1:29:11they they help other people to feel seen
1:29:14right they ask a question with a
1:29:16sincerity that makes the other person
1:29:17share the thing that they might not have
1:29:19shared in many other groups and we all
1:29:21deeply want to feel safe to share
1:29:24ourselves but we don't because we're in
1:29:26louder groups or all different sorts of
1:29:27things so when we get in contact with an
1:29:29empathetic person they might not talk
1:29:32very much but man do we leave liking
1:29:35that person like oh we had a great
1:29:37conversation we need to do that again
1:29:38interesting uh and then the last one is
1:29:41your energetic type this is probably the
1:29:43easiest one to add I think of early Will
1:29:46Smith I think of the way that people
1:29:48walk onto walk onto talk shows where
1:29:50they would come onto Jimmy Fallon
1:29:52dancing onto the stage or something like
1:29:55that this is an individual who may not
1:29:57be very witty with their humor but they
1:30:00make people smile because the energy
1:30:02that they bring to an interaction is
1:30:03just like two degrees higher than you
1:30:05would expect okay right so it's he
1:30:07doesn't need to be like funny haha can
1:30:10crack a joke but the guy who's first on
1:30:11the dance floor at the wedding is
1:30:13like you know committed to the thing
1:30:16that's energetic and I think Jack Black
1:30:19is someone who has a comat he is funny
1:30:20like he can crack a choke but the energy
1:30:22that he brings to everything he does is
1:30:24what sells it so this comes from
1:30:26commitment to the bit right you don't
1:30:28like start off dancing like this and
1:30:29then look around and realize nobody
1:30:31likes it and stop yeah it's if you're if
1:30:33you're able to sustain a level of energy
1:30:35enthusiasm and positivity that is one or
1:30:37two degrees higher than the people in
1:30:39the room at first there's like I don't
1:30:41know and then they they join in because
1:30:43everybody wants to relax and dance and
1:30:46feel better or at least to witness
1:30:47people doing that and when it's
1:30:49committed that's when it really really
1:30:51works so when I think about these five
1:30:53charisma ypes that you talk about you
1:30:55could be several of them and you could
1:30:56potentially be all of them yeah so
1:30:59someone could be high conviction
1:31:01authentic funny energetic and empathetic
1:31:04sure and is that like the Holy Grail
1:31:06that's like the singularity where
1:31:08Universe
1:31:09explodes no you're right you could be
1:31:11you could be all of these I do find that
1:31:13conviction and empathetic tend to move
1:31:16in opposites of one another like I
1:31:18wouldn't expect Conor McGregor to like
1:31:19hold space for me very
1:31:21well uh so they they're but that's not
1:31:24required right you can have a degree of
1:31:25conviction Obama he struck me as being
1:31:29high conviction at times yes we can yeah
1:31:31and also empathetic when he cried on the
1:31:33stage after the Sandy Hook thing I think
1:31:35he's a great example of of those moving
1:31:38up he's also authentic he's funny yeah
1:31:40energetic I guess I mean he was he riled
1:31:44people up he I mean he's a generational
1:31:46Talent as a politician he's yeah so he's
1:31:49he's definitely next level that's the
1:31:51other thing I've started to look back at
1:31:53some of the president that we've had and
1:31:55we've had some Statesmen that have been
1:31:57you can have your opinion on them but
1:31:59when I look at the people that have won
1:32:00they're they're the Charisma candidate
1:32:02in a lot of the cases isn't it crazy I
1:32:04don't think it's that crazy that's the
1:32:06thing we we tend to overlook it and then
1:32:08pretend that we live in a world based on
1:32:11uh rubric Merit as opposed to this is
1:32:14literally a popularity contest how did
1:32:16this person make me feel yeah how do I
1:32:18feel when I'm around them or how do I
1:32:19feel when I witness them on stage do I
1:32:22believe that I can trust them without
1:32:23ever having had a one toone conversation
1:32:25so Obama's he's a Charisma freak he's
1:32:27he's incredibly High Charisma what you
1:32:30just said there just goes to highlight
1:32:31how important these skills are because
1:32:33if you can rise to the top of society
1:32:35and become the leader of the Free World
1:32:36by mastering Charisma yeah like Dave at
1:32:39his job or like me as a
1:32:41podcaster it just goes to show that like
1:32:43talent and Merit and skills and maybe
1:32:47even my education are secondary to my
1:32:49ability
1:32:50to make people feel a certain way I
1:32:54think in most I think let me see if this
1:32:57is true certainly true in LA to to a
1:32:59ridiculous
1:33:01level but even in the industry that I
1:33:03was in which was
1:33:05Consulting I wound up getting off cycle
1:33:10raises uh preferential treatment though
1:33:13even decades later I feel strange saying
1:33:15it on camera and it was like I said
1:33:18there was there were better analysts
1:33:19than me there were guys that I lik that
1:33:20I went to to help me with my work and it
1:33:23was not because I was the best analyst
1:33:25it was because I had established
1:33:27relationships with people that liked me
1:33:29and wanted me to do well and it's
1:33:31obvious what is nepotism other than
1:33:33familial connection right and so if you
1:33:35just remove the family from it that's
1:33:37Charisma that's this person cares and
1:33:39wants me to do well and likes me but
1:33:42it's not nepotism it's something else
1:33:44it's it's a charismatic connection that
1:33:46you have with that person health is a
1:33:48huge Focus for me in 2025 and I'm not
1:33:50just talking about eating bright and
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1:35:53head to zoe.com now how do I use this
1:35:55idea of Charisma and body language and
1:35:58interpersonal skills to improve my
1:36:00prospects in work whether that's in an
1:36:02interview setting for a new job or if
1:36:05I'm looking for a promotion so the first
1:36:07thing that I always thought about with
1:36:09interviews and trained people to think
1:36:10about was the interview does not start
1:36:12when you land in the room with that
1:36:14person who is got the piece of paper in
1:36:17front of them with your
1:36:18resume starts when you leave your house
1:36:20if you're taking an Uber you need to
1:36:22talk to the Uber driver right right you
1:36:23need to get warm you need to get
1:36:25comfortable you need to get those vocal
1:36:26cords moving you need to be dynamic when
1:36:29you enter the building if it's a large
1:36:30building and has a security guard one
1:36:32more sentence remember hey how's it
1:36:34going you see a lot of Fresh Faces in
1:36:36here you know yeah hopefully this is not
1:36:38the last time you see me that type of a
1:36:40thing it just makes you feel a little
1:36:41bit more comfortable instead of
1:36:43reviewing whatever technical stuff that
1:36:45you think you need to know that needs to
1:36:46be dropped before the interview that's
1:36:48either in there or it's not like 15 to
1:36:5030 minutes in advance then you go
1:36:52upstairs there's a secretary same thing
1:36:55there's other candidates same thing by
1:36:57the time you sit down across from that
1:36:58person you're warm you're ready to go
1:37:01and you're not starting from zero in
1:37:03order to be an engaging human because
1:37:04there are going to be those initial
1:37:05questions did you get in all right did
1:37:07you do this just a little bit a little
1:37:09bit extra and it's going to be attuned
1:37:11to the situation but it'll come through
1:37:14and you've opened a couple of tabs on
1:37:15the way here right exactly exactly like
1:37:18how'd you get in and be like yeah I read
1:37:19I met Rick at the door he's awesome
1:37:21right like that's that's GNA help so
1:37:24that's the number one thing and then in
1:37:27interviews there's a you don't know what
1:37:28questions you're going to get asked but
1:37:31if you can take what you're going to get
1:37:32asked and put it into a story format and
1:37:35have a beginning middle and an end that
1:37:37has like an up down up sort of curve to
1:37:40it and what I mean is that they're going
1:37:41to say tell me about something that you
1:37:42really struggled with in your career and
1:37:44if in advance you have thought through
1:37:46your career and you have the three big
1:37:48moments that happened to you which is
1:37:50you took over this project you quit this
1:37:52job and left to this one and you did
1:37:54this other thing and then you backwards
1:37:57figure out the story of those and so the
1:37:59story has this agitating you know it's
1:38:02got the you establish that I was working
1:38:04at this company and then there was a
1:38:05problem and then you agitate the problem
1:38:07it was really bad and no one could solve
1:38:09it no one could to figure it out and so
1:38:11I did X Y and Z and as a result it
1:38:13turned out really well and then this
1:38:15other thing happened you get three to
1:38:17five of those things that you know are
1:38:19your core stories you have no idea what
1:38:21questions are coming but I promise you
1:38:22you're going to slot five things into it
1:38:24so you don't need you will not be
1:38:26surprised in the moment if there's a
1:38:29question that you haven't prepared for
1:38:30or heard because probably there's a
1:38:32story when it comes this is the fit
1:38:33portion of the interview that you can
1:38:35just you have your story ready and it
1:38:37demonstrates any of the values that you
1:38:38think this company wants which is I'm
1:38:40tenacious I work hard I know the uh
1:38:42industry and I can work well with people
1:38:44that's built into your stories um and
1:38:46then one tip is that at the end of an
1:38:48interview there's always that moment
1:38:49where they say do you have any questions
1:38:51for us and what I've seen seen sitting
1:38:53on the other side of the table is people
1:38:55either ask a question they don't really
1:38:56have because they feel like they're
1:38:57supposed to um or they say no I don't
1:39:00have any questions and it's just a
1:39:02missed opportunity and so this one I
1:39:05have to give credit to my
1:39:06co-founder uh he came up with and this
1:39:08is one of the things I did not
1:39:09anticipate I got the most positive
1:39:12responses like I got the job because of
1:39:13this question type of a thing and the
1:39:15question is okay so let's say that this
1:39:18interview went really well and a year
1:39:21from now I got the job and you're
1:39:22looking back
1:39:24what would I have had to have done in
1:39:26order for you to feel like it was a good
1:39:28decision like what things will I have
1:39:29had to have done in that in that role
1:39:31and so typically the person goes um I
1:39:33like that that's a really good question
1:39:34and it does a handful of things one
1:39:37you've gotten them to imagine the
1:39:38interview going really well and them
1:39:40hiring you right and then second they're
1:39:42going to lay out for you exactly what
1:39:45you need to do in the role to Excel and
1:39:48that is something that every boss wants
1:39:50it's like I want you interested in
1:39:51knowing what I need from you in order to
1:39:53do a good job and you can take that same
1:39:56principle and you could bring it into
1:39:57conversations if you want to get a raise
1:40:00sooner than you think you were going to
1:40:02to go in and say Hey you know I'd like
1:40:03to get a raise you can make it clear I'd
1:40:05like to do it faster than usual but I
1:40:07want to make sure it's totally worth it
1:40:09for you
1:40:10so six months from now or eight months
1:40:12from now in order for me to get this
1:40:14raise what would I have had to have done
1:40:16for it to be a no-brainer obvious to you
1:40:18that this was valuable and then they
1:40:21will go and tell you the things that you
1:40:22could do and if it's it's a company that
1:40:23says no you can't maybe you don't want
1:40:24to work there but they'll just give you
1:40:26the Playbook and then do those things
1:40:29keep up with that person and you're now
1:40:31off track for promotions right you're
1:40:33not just doing whatever they say and the
1:40:36Bummer is you might have done those
1:40:38things anyway but if you don't have that
1:40:39conversation in advance they're not
1:40:40going to give you a raise in most cases
1:40:42so interesting because this could be
1:40:43applied to like anybody in any role that
1:40:46is selling anything I'm thinking of a
1:40:47personal trainer who meets their client
1:40:48on the first day and says six months
1:40:51from now what would I have done to have
1:40:52made you happy or I'm thinking of you
1:40:54know marketing Industries agencies
1:40:56turning to their clients at the start
1:40:57and saying if we're still working
1:40:59together in 12 months and you're really
1:41:00happy what would I have done yeah and
1:41:02they'll lay out exactly how they want to
1:41:04be treated and their expectations yes
1:41:06yes so you can meet and exceed them yes
1:41:08yeah and it shows that you care in that
1:41:10in that initial moment you mentioned
1:41:11something earlier on which um you said
1:41:14uh you were in a South America and you
1:41:16thought your life was going to be
1:41:17focused on figuring out how to pick up
1:41:19women yeah what are women attracted to
1:41:24in your opinion I know this is somewhat
1:41:26stereotyping and generalized but are
1:41:28there anything that as a as a man I
1:41:30could uh do to make myself more
1:41:32attracted to a woman and vice
1:41:35versa when I see men approach women
1:41:38particularly in the US every culture is
1:41:40different I've lived in a number of
1:41:41different places there's that moment
1:41:42where they're just sussing out does he
1:41:44feel like he has a right to speak to me
1:41:46or not and sometimes they're not
1:41:48immediately warm and by immediately I
1:41:50mean in the first 5 seconds and there's
1:41:52a difference between the guys that I've
1:41:53seen get more comfortable and they just
1:41:55ride that 5 to 10 to 15 seconds out and
1:41:57then the women are laughing and the guys
1:41:59that take that first initial bit of she
1:42:01didn't initially like love everything
1:42:03that I said and then they go okay and
1:42:06they walk away so conviction is a huge
1:42:08huge piece of it I think another big
1:42:10element is that a lot of guys come in
1:42:13with just man they they have these
1:42:15boring habits and I don't think they can
1:42:17conceive of what it's like to be a woman
1:42:18and get asked the same boring thing 10
1:42:21million times and this is true on dating
1:42:23apps and it's true in the bar so on
1:42:25dating apps it's pay right or something
1:42:29like that in a bar it's do you come here
1:42:30often it's what is your major or
1:42:33something like that so having any sort
1:42:36of initial line that is just not that
1:42:40right make it true you don't need to
1:42:41tell a fake story but the one that I
1:42:43fell back on in so many different social
1:42:44circumstances was hey I don't think I've
1:42:47met you yet I'm Charlie and the one the
1:42:50reason I love this is one it's portable
1:42:51it can be a house party it can be a bar
1:42:52it can be whatever but unspoken in that
1:42:55is that I'm the type of person who knows
1:42:57a lot of people here which I didn't say
1:42:59that yeah it's true but it comes through
1:43:02in that it's like I'm the man that is
1:43:04I'm The Man about town like I know
1:43:05different people here um so that was
1:43:07always just an easy one to have and I
1:43:09think to have that in your back pocket
1:43:11is very helpful but in terms of what
1:43:13they want the first thing is just
1:43:15general human attraction and this isn't
1:43:17like I want to sleep with you I want to
1:43:19marry you it's just do I want to engage
1:43:20in conversation with you do you have an
1:43:22interesting story
1:43:23do am I excusing myself at the first
1:43:25minute to go to the bathroom first
1:43:27chance I get H is she filling in gaps in
1:43:31conversation with her own contributions
1:43:32or do you have to carry the entire load
1:43:34yourself that's how you know if you have
1:43:36that basic human attraction doesn't mean
1:43:38that she likes you or wants to be with
1:43:39you just means that she's down to
1:43:40converse and interact with you the
1:43:42second thing that is probably one that
1:43:44most guys miss is Do You authentically
1:43:47Have and Have you communicated to her
1:43:48that you have standards Beyond her being
1:43:50beautiful and for most men this is just
1:43:53a no this is this is unfortunately if
1:43:57they look back on their lives and they
1:43:59go okay has there ever been a time where
1:44:01I was physically attracted to someone
1:44:03and she did something that made me go
1:44:06okay I'm not interested anymore whether
1:44:08it was be rude to a waiter or unkind or
1:44:11cold or just not have fun in the way
1:44:13that I would like to have fun which
1:44:14doesn't mean she's a bad person just
1:44:16mean she's not a match for me so many
1:44:18men especially when they're
1:44:20younger don't have standards they they
1:44:23have that one standard so the weird
1:44:25thing about that is it feels like oh
1:44:27well if I have a standard I have a
1:44:28smaller group of people that are going
1:44:31to work with me but actually women want
1:44:34to be liked for more than their looks
1:44:36people want to be appreciated for their
1:44:39inside for who they are as a person and
1:44:42if you can't feel and communicate that
1:44:45you know oh man like I often go out I
1:44:46don't meet people that I have as much
1:44:47fun with as you you're so funny or like
1:44:49I love how affectionate you are like
1:44:50like most people wouldn't come on to the
1:44:52dance floor with me we're the only ones
1:44:53out here or whatever it is if you can
1:44:55communicate to her that you have a
1:44:57standard that she is hitting and that is
1:45:01making you aware that you're a match for
1:45:02her it shifts That Power Balance from
1:45:05she's on a pedestal because she's
1:45:06beautiful and I'm going to pursue her
1:45:08the whole time to genuinely you come in
1:45:10and you're actually filtering for these
1:45:12things so you will be subconsciously
1:45:14wanting to find the person who's going
1:45:15to go cut up the dance floor with you or
1:45:17trying to find the person that is
1:45:19affectionate as opposed to the person
1:45:20who is a bit colder is there an element
1:45:23this as well where people will [ __ ] test
1:45:26you like they will test to see if you
1:45:28have standards yes because if men and
1:45:31women so I will subtly because I heard
1:45:35about this thing called [ __ ] testing
1:45:36where like someone will subtly mistreat
1:45:37you to see how you react yeah and if you
1:45:40react in that moment and you just kind
1:45:42of accept it and tolerate it they'll
1:45:44therefore treat you in the future in the
1:45:45same way but also they they will be less
1:45:47attracted to you and viewers lower
1:45:48status whereas some you she might show
1:45:51up 45 minutes late and if you're still
1:45:54sat there
1:45:55mhm then that in of itself is showing
1:45:58that you'll kind of tolerate anything
1:45:59and that she's or he is higher standard
1:46:02higher status than you yeah I at the
1:46:04beginning of one of my relationships
1:46:06that wound up being a multi-year
1:46:08relationship but uh we were just sort of
1:46:10getting started and I remember we had
1:46:13plans to meet on a Sunday night and I
1:46:15had been very amenable up until this
1:46:18point she' canceled and I said no
1:46:19problem you know canel no problem and I
1:46:22saw what was happening I'm breaking my
1:46:24own rule I'm being I'm moving plans in
1:46:26order to make space with her and so we
1:46:29have a thing Sunday night it's 900 P
1:46:31p.m. we're supposed to meet at 10: she
1:46:33calls me and says that sorry I can't
1:46:35come I'm with my family and I'm G you
1:46:37know I just can't make it also
1:46:39unfortunately this week you know I have
1:46:41this thing on Monday and this other
1:46:43thing Tuesday and then I have work
1:46:44Thursday Friday night so the only way
1:46:45that I can see you this week is is going
1:46:47to be Wednesday night and I had earlier
1:46:50that day made plans to go out with my
1:46:52friends on Wednesday night and though it
1:46:54was a challenge for me I thought about
1:46:55this earlier and I said oh that's a
1:46:58bummer then I don't think I'm going to
1:47:00be able to see you this week she said
1:47:02what what do you what do you mean I said
1:47:04I I have plans on
1:47:06Wednesday well what what then we're not
1:47:08going to be able to see each other and
1:47:09she starts getting upset and nervous I I
1:47:12don't know what to tell you I I just am
1:47:13not free on Wednesday okay let me call
1:47:15you back and she goes she calls me back
1:47:17in 15 minutes okay I'm going to come
1:47:19over oh my God that you just reminded me
1:47:21of so many investment conversations I've
1:47:22had with ERS who pitched me their
1:47:24business and email me and go Steve we've
1:47:26got a million pounds left in this round
1:47:27you can put the million in but we need
1:47:29to know in 3 days time because we've got
1:47:31so much interest and I remember one over
1:47:33the Christmas break where I said don't
1:47:35worry about it I can't I can't give you
1:47:37an answer in three days I take two weeks
1:47:39to speak to my team do some analysis do
1:47:41diligence I come back two weeks later
1:47:43and I go we're not interested MH is
1:47:45there any way you might be interested
1:47:47please as I've just a you told me there
1:47:49was three days for me to make a decision
1:47:51at first then I told you I didn't want
1:47:52to do that I took two weeks I came back
1:47:54and said no and now you're chasing me
1:47:56yeah and it's so interesting how but you
1:48:00can't the problem with this as advice is
1:48:04it has to be true yes this is don't play
1:48:08I mean
1:48:09games okay you can at first I understand
1:48:11you're 18 you've got nothing on your
1:48:13social calendar you technically are
1:48:15available every minute of the day to be
1:48:17with this girl that you would really
1:48:18like to be with the advice is often just
1:48:21say no that you can't hang out with she
1:48:22does it which I think is very confusing
1:48:24instead fill your calendar you like
1:48:27start to build your life outside of this
1:48:29thing if you're this business get other
1:48:31options on the table have other balls in
1:48:34the air that are going for you so it's a
1:48:36hack but starting to calendar your
1:48:38social life which is not something I
1:48:40like to be very flexible but when you
1:48:42have that it actually makes you much
1:48:44more charismatic and I see this all the
1:48:45time so there is something to this don't
1:48:48play the game you don't need to fake it
1:48:51but if you find that this is not working
1:48:52in your life start to take steps to fill
1:48:54your calendar even if one night is like
1:48:56on Tuesdays I watch this TV show and
1:48:58then take a luxurious bath after like no
1:49:01sorry I can't do it Tuesday and this can
1:49:03all get adjusted when you're in a
1:49:04relationship and it's ongoing there's a
1:49:05give and take that is of course going to
1:49:07occur but man yeah there is um there's
1:49:11these power games that people play
1:49:12there's these these who is more in
1:49:15demand and like it or not it has an
1:49:19impact I went through some of your best
1:49:21performing videos of time on your
1:49:23channel and it was interesting that I
1:49:25could see kind of themes in them right I
1:49:27could see the several of the best
1:49:29performing videos had similar themes and
1:49:30one of the really prominent themes was
1:49:35five habits that make people instantly
1:49:36dislike you so that's a video about Brie
1:49:38Larson and around the time of the
1:49:41Avengers Captain Marvel thing she had a
1:49:43string of interviews that were pretty
1:49:44alienating to people some of the things
1:49:46that she did goodness it
1:49:49was having to win every joke exchange
1:49:53they're talking about for
1:49:55instance who's the most powerful Avenger
1:49:58right and they're sort of being playful
1:49:59with each other like well Thor is the
1:50:01most powerful and she adopts this
1:50:03attitude of well actually my character
1:50:04would kill yours and there's a well
1:50:06actually quality like well actually I
1:50:08would been actually I would win actually
1:50:10uh your character is just a mere mortal
1:50:11and I would win and it is like cute once
1:50:15but it becomes frustrating to have
1:50:17someone have to win every banter
1:50:20exchange between friends and so I think
1:50:22people saw that and they saw some of the
1:50:24reactions of the cast and so that's one
1:50:27is like to have to win every banter
1:50:30exchange and have a burn that you come
1:50:32out on top of not a good one another one
1:50:35that she did is to
1:50:38interpret ambiguous Communications
1:50:41negatively so for instance in this
1:50:44particular video that I did she's on
1:50:46that wired autocomplete interview and
1:50:49there's one question that is does Bri
1:50:50Larson work out and in a way that
1:50:54doesn't to at least to Americans like
1:50:55clearly communicate sarcasm maybe it's
1:50:57different to Brits I don't know you guys
1:50:59have a different cultural code she says
1:51:01something to the effect of like is that
1:51:03a personal attack really yeah and then
1:51:05she doesn't laugh and she also so
1:51:07there's two options there you could say
1:51:09is that a personal attack and then you
1:51:12could laugh right or you could say is
1:51:15that a personal attack everyone on the
1:51:17internet thinks that I'm so fat just
1:51:18trying to jump on me I'm trying to lose
1:51:20weight like you can you can double and
1:51:21triple down until it's clear that you're
1:51:23being absurd yeah but she said it once
1:51:26and it came through as hyper defensive
1:51:28and the thing that I talk about is you
1:51:29want to interpret ambiguous
1:51:31Communications charitably this is a big
1:51:33one this is one of like if You' watched
1:51:34the show Ted lasso this is full of this
1:51:36people will come up to him and I just
1:51:38did a video that had this clip where
1:51:40he's on the airplane if you know Ted
1:51:41lasso he's an american guy going to
1:51:43England and somebody says you know
1:51:45you're you're going to uh coach the
1:51:47football team the soccer team for us in
1:51:49England man they're so bad this is going
1:51:51to go horribly you're Legend and then he
1:51:54responds well you know I haven't lost
1:51:55yet and he's just got this General
1:51:57positive demeanor he takes that
1:51:59ambiguous communication and responds
1:52:01with Grace and charm and doesn't make it
1:52:03a
1:52:04fight that works so well that purposeful
1:52:08misinterpretation of ambiguation early
1:52:10on that are maybe not the
1:52:12friendliest this often will take people
1:52:14that are trying to take Digs at you and
1:52:15make them flip and in the case that
1:52:17somebody was just a bit socially
1:52:18miscalibrated it gives them the
1:52:20opportunity to you know not be cast as
1:52:22the bad guy in the interaction so that
1:52:24was something else that she did wrong
1:52:25interesting also if if others are
1:52:27watching the interaction and if you have
1:52:30a bias towards interpreting the
1:52:32communication well yeah the person
1:52:35that's was maybe taking a dig at you is
1:52:37going to look pretty ridiculous and
1:52:38you're going to probably come off
1:52:39looking pretty good exactly exactly
1:52:42and we when we see people defend
1:52:46themselves against
1:52:49words with with some exception when
1:52:51somebody's like saying that they're
1:52:52going to hurt you it
1:52:54communicates an insecurity and a
1:52:56defensiveness which is like why do you
1:52:58need to defend yourself against the
1:52:59opinions of another right like the Trump
1:53:02thing where he said about only Ros o
1:53:03Donald yes yeah it's like I don't need
1:53:05to defend myself against this and it
1:53:07subc communicates that this is not a big
1:53:09deal more than saying that's not a big
1:53:12deal you are subc commmun that's not a
1:53:15big deal by not defending it and that's
1:53:17what we do when we actually feel
1:53:18comfortable let's say if somebody were
1:53:20to tease something that you're not at
1:53:21all in about I don't know what it would
1:53:23be maybe your business success or
1:53:25something they come in like yeah well
1:53:26you know Sten real struggling these days
1:53:28you're going to laugh you're going to
1:53:29add on to it and sometimes a way through
1:53:32this is to tag the joke that's made at
1:53:34your expense which is to to add a yes
1:53:35and on top of it so if somebody
1:53:38ambiguous interpretation is say yeah you
1:53:39know Stephen these businesses just
1:53:41aren't working really well you be like
1:53:42oh my god dude you have no idea I've
1:53:44been pulling my hair out with the last
1:53:45few weeks just like things are falling
1:53:47apart around me you can do that because
1:53:50you I'm assuming feel very comfortable
1:53:52with with your level of business success
1:53:54and when you can again there is a
1:53:56difference when you start to sense a
1:53:58pattern in somebody that is a different
1:54:00route that you want to take but if it's
1:54:01just one banter thing that is at your
1:54:03expense to double down and make it a
1:54:05joke that you're in on is often very
1:54:07very
1:54:08powerful fascinating I'm going to ask
1:54:10you one last question on this
1:54:13um one of your best performing videos is
1:54:17titled speak like a leader make people
1:54:21respect you in fact there was two of
1:54:23your top performing videos that were
1:54:24about speaking like a leader speaking
1:54:26well which is fascinating to me that
1:54:28people really want to learn how to speak
1:54:31well what advice would you give to
1:54:32someone who doesn't feel like they're a
1:54:34good oral communicator on how to speak
1:54:37like a
1:54:38leader the ability to answer non-
1:54:42literally and bring in fun and jokes
1:54:44into the
1:54:45interaction the ability to get to values
1:54:48in a conversation which is a lot of the
1:54:50stuff that we talked about to
1:54:53take people to the thing that they
1:54:55actually want to connect over versus the
1:54:57weather and all that sort of stuff is
1:54:59part of it you don't you you seem to
1:55:01take a pause as well when you're
1:55:02thinking Some People fill in the gaps a
1:55:04little bit yeah generally and I I'm sure
1:55:07I've made this mistake but if you can
1:55:09replace any filler word um uh any crutch
1:55:13word that you have with
1:55:15silence silence is a vacuum and the cool
1:55:18thing about vacuums is that they pull
1:55:20attention to you MH and I think people
1:55:23dramatically dramatically underestimate
1:55:25the amount of Silence that're they're
1:55:26afforded if I look back actually at my
1:55:28early videos I dramatically
1:55:31underestimated the value of Silence I
1:55:33thought that I had to get it all out
1:55:34there and be super interesting really
1:55:35fast in order to keep that avd really
1:55:37really high and I've since seen and
1:55:40learned that when you have a story and
1:55:42you learn the Beats where you've set up
1:55:45the mystery and so there's these these
1:55:47lines that you'll say in a story is like
1:55:48you know the craziest thing happened the
1:55:50other day
1:55:52so I'm right like you you are there's
1:55:55there's these Hooks and you get an
1:55:56intuitive feel for where you've got the
1:55:59audience on the edge of their seat and
1:56:00especially then to just take a breath or
1:56:03have a pause you don't need to think all
1:56:05of this out but that becomes second
1:56:06nature that's very valuable and it comes
1:56:09from the way I've seen people do is when
1:56:11you record yourself tell a story and
1:56:13just watch back how many ums and us you
1:56:15have in it when I watch my own podcasts
1:56:17I'm sure you've felt this yeah oh my
1:56:19gosh it's
1:56:20horrifying yeah you begin to see your
1:56:23own little habits come through does body
1:56:26language matter when I'm speaking in
1:56:28your I think so yeah yeah there's a
1:56:30couple things that I tend to teach
1:56:32people which is a lot of people form a
1:56:34tiny little box for themselves where
1:56:36maybe they'll move their hands like this
1:56:37and it's they got this thing going on
1:56:40people that can't see you just kind of
1:56:41waving it like a I'm kind of waving my
1:56:43hands in a little circular thing and my
1:56:44elbows most importantly are pin to my
1:56:46sides if I lift my elbows off my sides
1:56:49and I start talking a little bit like
1:56:50this and if I was to say you know over
1:56:52here and my brother's in The Green Room
1:56:53over there and I gesticulate there's two
1:56:55ways to gesticulate I can take my finger
1:56:57and I can point six inches from my face
1:56:58the direction that my brother is or I
1:57:00can lift my entire arm and P over there
1:57:02point over there the space that you fill
1:57:07is one captivating this is something
1:57:09that we talk about in a lot of our
1:57:11videos which is you don't need to invade
1:57:13other people's space you need to fill
1:57:14your own completely when you fill your
1:57:16space completely it is much more
1:57:18captivating so when you're on stage to
1:57:20gesticulate with the the full width of
1:57:22your wingspan like look I know you guys
1:57:25on this side of the room are feeling
1:57:26this but over here right versus I know
1:57:29you guys on this side of the room think
1:57:30that we have to do this but over here it
1:57:32just there's a level of discomfort that
1:57:34is comes through in it versus get those
1:57:37elbows off the sides it makes a huge
1:57:39huge difference also helps you speak
1:57:40louder makes you more
1:57:41Dynamic what's the most important thing
1:57:43we haven't talked about that the
1:57:44audience are probably screaming to know
1:57:47at this exact moment in time when it
1:57:49comes to confidence one of the mindsets
1:57:51that I see really help
1:57:54people is that there are no superiors
1:57:57that you go into your workplace and you
1:57:58think that you've got to treat your boss
1:58:00differently or you go into a bar and you
1:58:02think you have to treat the beautiful
1:58:03woman differently and yes there is
1:58:05status and yes we arrange ourselves in
1:58:07sorts of hierarchies
1:58:09but when you realize and I as I did in
1:58:13my job and this is why I got the raise
1:58:15off cycle it's why everything started
1:58:16working for me you're not dealing with
1:58:19roles you're not dealing with investors
1:58:21you're not dealing with avatars of
1:58:23beauty you are dealing with people and
1:58:26the people that they love the most in
1:58:27their life that they would do the most
1:58:29for they connect with over the same
1:58:32things that you connect with your
1:58:33friends over there's different interests
1:58:36but the underlying themes of those
1:58:39things are the same what they love to do
1:58:41for fun what fills them up what brings
1:58:43them Joy not looking prim and proper and
1:58:47perfect and so like a willingness to
1:58:49make that mistake is uh I see is often
1:58:52the essence of confidence and when I
1:58:54have dropped it and another friend has
1:58:55picked it up I see it all the time goes
1:58:57back to what you said about convincing
1:58:59versus invites don't convince people
1:59:01give them invites to connect yeah yeah
1:59:03that's a really interesting point that I
1:59:04never heard before and I can immediately
1:59:07see how I can action that in my own life
1:59:08because I do even I find myself like
1:59:09convincing people all the time trying to
1:59:12convince them especially if they don't
1:59:13know I'm like oh I do this I do this I
1:59:14do this even like when I land into the
1:59:16US they're like border Force are like
1:59:19what are you doing here like what do you
1:59:21do I'm like
1:59:23I got to podcast cool start a
1:59:27business brings out that little boy just
1:59:29say your holiday I'm here for a [ __ ]
1:59:30holiday let me
1:59:32through we have a closing tradition on
1:59:34this podcast where the last guest leaves
1:59:35a question for the next guest without
1:59:36knowing who they're leaving it for all
1:59:38right and the question that's been left
1:59:40for you
1:59:41is what is the most important thing you
1:59:45are doing to increase your well-being
1:59:50a well we have talked about this and
1:59:53without opening a can of
1:59:55worms I have done roughly
1:59:59quarterly psychedelic Journeys for the
2:00:02last couple of years and I was someone
2:00:04who had never done that before I when I
2:00:07was 30 I was the most straight Ed person
2:00:08you ever met I didn't drink I didn't do
2:00:10any of that why you doing it why am I
2:00:12doing it Hest aners only to connect with
2:00:16my heart and have that be the primary
2:00:20was thing that I bring into every
2:00:21interaction
2:00:22and it has helped
2:00:25me address the barriers to that the
2:00:28shame and we didn't go super deep today
2:00:30into it but the things that I've alluded
2:00:32to in my past
2:00:33that uh I thought made me broken
2:00:37or Unworthy of showing up fully where
2:00:41did that come
2:00:44from get
2:00:49um the
2:00:52belief and I the experiences that I had
2:00:55and there were many and it feels late
2:00:56the podcast to jump into them though we
2:00:58can jump into them if you want to um I'm
2:01:02I'm open to it
2:01:04uh one of them was being sexually
2:01:07abused
2:01:09and one of the things that I got from
2:01:13psychedelics
2:01:15was the ability to go back into that
2:01:19experience and realize
2:01:22what it
2:01:24had what compensations I'd made as a
2:01:26result of it because it was always
2:01:29something that I remembered I was old
2:01:30enough to remember I was probably about
2:01:3210ish
2:01:35and but the way that I took it
2:01:39was this is my
2:01:41fault I did this I must have wanted this
2:01:44or else it wouldn't have happened it's
2:01:45that infinite responsibility even at a
2:01:47young age that that I took which I can
2:01:49see is crazy and therefore this doesn't
2:01:51bother me I'm not I'm not affected by
2:01:55this um and in these experiences to
2:02:01break to just crack entirely
2:02:06and my heart to spill out of my chest in
2:02:09in pain and tears and grief for the
2:02:15loss of Soul connection
2:02:19that was impacting by that
2:02:27experience to uh I'm so blessed to have
2:02:32had the chance to reconnect with my soul
2:02:35and I want so deeply to offer that to
2:02:39other people and perhaps this adds some
2:02:43context to the shift and Charisma from
2:02:46something that you do
2:02:48to the essence of Who You Are and
2:02:53that's that's how I want to teach it
2:02:55going forward and that's what
2:02:57I that's the core gift that I want to
2:03:00pass forward to
2:03:02others that emotion is still on the
2:03:04surface MH because it it cost you
2:03:08something that you what what what what
2:03:10are the like the mixture of emotions you
2:03:16feel today I feel so much love I feel so
2:03:19much love like I I hear this voice voice
2:03:21in my head say I love
2:03:23you like I hear it so much I feel it
2:03:27constantly it's such a fuing gift and a
2:03:32blessing ah and so much grief for the
2:03:37years that I didn't feel that and then I
2:03:39had to be more than I was in order
2:03:45to come approximate a fraction of that
2:03:50um
2:03:51so it's
2:03:54today ecstatic joy and and uh gratitude
2:03:58and when I think back on it it's
2:04:04um compassion which is not what I felt
2:04:07before I felt revulsion for myself when
2:04:11I thought of what had happened to me I
2:04:12felt disgusted with me with my
2:04:17body with my
2:04:19center and um
2:04:28I I love being me more and more and uh
2:04:33so yeah I think part of the mix is
2:04:36the I'm glad you asked because it's what
2:04:39I want to give to other people whatever
2:04:44I can related to this
2:04:49and I think I the only way I can give it
2:04:51is by speaking to what I lost for a long
2:04:54time as well and
2:04:57um I didn't believe in souls
2:05:01for my whole life you know there was
2:05:04none of that that word was empty to
2:05:08me and to have it come back and to First
2:05:13feel the ache of it coming back the
2:05:15excruciating pain of like oh the
2:05:18separation from
2:05:20this and then the reunion is just like
2:05:23every day I
2:05:25uh I like pray and gratitude for that
2:05:30so I
2:05:37um that's the that's it's why I bought
2:05:40the business is is for this to spread
2:05:45that to as many people as I can
2:05:55thank you yeah it's really a beautiful
2:05:58thing that you just shared for for
2:05:59because I just know that there's people
2:06:01out there
2:06:02that are at some stage in that Journey
2:06:05you know it's a sexual abuse or
2:06:07something that I think from my very sort
2:06:10of naive um experience of speaking to
2:06:13people that have been through that is a
2:06:15very unique complex range of feelings
2:06:18and emotions that someone who's not been
2:06:20through that
2:06:22might struggle to understand because an
2:06:24objective Observer says you felt you
2:06:26felt you done something wrong yeah you
2:06:29carried the shame you carried the guilt
2:06:32you carried disgust it doesn't make it
2:06:35doesn't appear to make sense so by way
2:06:37of you sharing it you're going to enable
2:06:38a lot of people who are struggling in a
2:06:40similar way to make sense of what
2:06:42they're experience but also to offer
2:06:45them tremendous hope that at the end of
2:06:46that Journey however long that might
2:06:49take them they're going to arrive at
2:06:50alignment yeah they're going to come
2:06:52back to themselves yeah the shame was
2:06:55so underneath it was so pushed down I
2:06:58wasn't aware of it you know you asked
2:07:00earlier what were you feeling back then
2:07:01I said shame but I was it came out
2:07:05sideways it came way in perfectionism or
2:07:08seeking approval or trying to rescue and
2:07:10save other people all the things that we
2:07:11talked about today it was only through
2:07:15direct contact
2:07:18with that repressed feeling of
2:07:20self-disgust and
2:07:23responsibility that I was able to move
2:07:25through it and heal it and uh to sit
2:07:27with the
2:07:29worst thoughts that I had about myself
2:07:31which is like you said you did this you
2:07:34wanted it you deserve it you you know
2:07:39all of that stuff that gets uh sounds so
2:07:43freaking strange even to me to say but
2:07:45to know that
2:07:47that's the common response to something
2:07:50like that
2:07:53ah man it has helped me understand
2:07:57people so much more because I think you
2:07:59know I have my own history and my own
2:08:02shames but when you see the way that
2:08:06people internalize the things that have
2:08:08happened to them as if they're
2:08:12broken as
2:08:15if they deserved the misfortunes of
2:08:20particularly their early life and late
2:08:21life it's
2:08:24uh it's so sad and I can see now how how
2:08:29sad it is but you couldn't have
2:08:29convinced me
2:08:32before is there anything that you wish
2:08:36this this grown man in front of me could
2:08:38say to that
2:08:45boy I wish and this that someone could
2:08:50have I just needed someone to sit with
2:08:53me someone
2:08:56to sit and wait Without Blame there was
2:09:00not
2:09:01opportunity for an adult to just sit
2:09:05that I trusted and just
2:09:08listen so if I could send anything back
2:09:12to myself then it would just
2:09:14be an adult to listen to me and today
2:09:17what I've had to send back internally is
2:09:19that I just listen to myself I listen to
2:09:21myself so much more and it's only
2:09:23through listening to myself that I can
2:09:24get through all the shame and then
2:09:26finally hear that voice of I love you
2:09:28like I love you I love you you you
2:09:32couldn't be loved
2:09:39more thank you thank
2:09:43you there's so many reasons why I feel
2:09:45so grateful to you I mean
2:09:47um your
2:09:49work over the years has helped so many
2:09:52people make sense of a world that
2:09:54appears to be very confusing especially
2:09:56as like a young man but even also as a
2:09:58young woman um understanding why we're
2:10:01struggling in our lives can feel like a
2:10:04Rubik's cube of a bunch of different
2:10:06factors that we were either given across
2:10:08the dining room table from our parents
2:10:10or biologically or whatever and you've
2:10:13helped us to understand the most
2:10:14important thing in the world which is
2:10:16humans what it is to be a human how to
2:10:19be an effective human in whatever
2:10:20context how to to be an uneffective
2:10:22human and to really turn the lights on
2:10:24to many of the things that we do and
2:10:25don't do without knowing it at all and
2:10:27all of this gives us a greater chance of
2:10:29becoming whoever we want to be and I'm
2:10:32also grateful to you because your
2:10:34willingness to share your early
2:10:35experiences this early abuse that
2:10:40happened and to reflect on it and to
2:10:43talk to us so openly and honestly about
2:10:46the complexities of
2:10:49it are going to help so many people who
2:10:53are at some stage in that in that
2:10:54process to feel seen and heard and to
2:10:58also maybe most importantly of all offer
2:11:00them hope that they can come to where
2:11:02you've arrived at today where you love
2:11:05yourself thank you man and you have that
2:11:07love in yourself thank you that what a
2:11:09gift that's a hell of a
2:11:12blessing thank
2:11:14you I highly recommend everybody um if
2:11:17they want to hear more from you they
2:11:19have to go and check out your channel
2:11:20I'm going to put it on the screen and
2:11:21Link it everywhere because you're on a
2:11:23journey and I think people are more
2:11:25fascinated now than ever before to
2:11:27really follow that journey and
2:11:29understand what truly Charisma is what
2:11:30loving yourself is what we should be
2:11:32aiming at um and I'm I mean having
2:11:35spoken to you today I'm so I'm almost
2:11:38obsessed
2:11:39with your work and what's going to pour
2:11:41out of you in this season of your life
2:11:43and I'd highly recommend everybody go
2:11:45check out the channel it's unbelievable
2:11:46you're back you you took a Hiatus yeah
2:11:49but you're back and there's a new uh
2:11:50there's a a new Essence to you which I
2:11:53think is incredible yeah um so please go
2:11:56check out Charlie's work please go check
2:11:57out his Channel please go check out his
2:11:58university I'm going to link all of that
2:12:00below um and is there anything else that
2:12:02if people want to reach out to you how
2:12:03do they do it how do they get more from
2:12:05you yeah we have we have a course called
2:12:07charism University which is you ask me a
2:12:09lot about the tips and quite frankly
2:12:11they're not top of mind but they're in
2:12:14there you know that's a 30-day program
2:12:15for people to go through and start to
2:12:17implement these things in a very
2:12:18actionable way so if they're curious
2:12:19they can check that out um just Google
2:12:21Charisma
2:12:22University and I think that's it I'm
2:12:24happy we finally got to the tears
2:12:26Stephen I was worried that your
2:12:27reputation would fail
2:12:31you thank you thanks man it's been a
2:12:34pleasure it really really has been isn't
2:12:37this cool every single conversation I
2:12:39have here on the dire of a CEO at the
2:12:41very end of it you'll know I asked the
2:12:43guest to leave a question in the Diary
2:12:46of a CEO and what we've done is we've
2:12:49turned every single question written the
2:12:51Diary of a CEO into these conversation
2:12:54cards that you can play at home so
2:12:56you've got every guest we've ever had
2:12:59their question and on the back of it if
2:13:02you scan that QR code you get to watch
2:13:05the person who answered that question
2:13:08we're finally revealing all of the
2:13:10questions and the people that answered
2:13:13the question the brand new version two
2:13:16updated conversation cards are out right
2:13:19now at the conversation card cards.com
2:13:22they've sold out twice instantaneously
2:13:23so if you are interested in getting hold
2:13:25of some limited edition conversation
2:13:27cards I really really recommend acting
2:13:29quickly this has always blown my mind a
2:13:31little bit 53% of you that listen to the
2:13:34show regularly haven't yet subscribed to
2:13:36the show so could I ask you for a favor
2:13:38before we start if you like the show and
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2:13:58much
2:14:00[Music]
2:14:21oh

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