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🔥 The Biggest Problem with Islam’s Origins Nobody Wants to Discuss || Dr. Jay Smith — Transcript

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0:00And it comes from
0:02what I've been doing. And I think I need
0:04to give Is that me making all that
0:06noise? That huffing noise? Can you Can
0:09we do something about that?
0:11It's not me and my breath. Is it me
0:14moving? I guess
0:17if I move, is it do that? So when you
0:20look at the background as to why we're
0:24even in this debate, it all began way
0:27back when I was in London in 1992.
0:32So this is over 30 years old. In 1992, I
0:35was sent to London to take on and to
0:37confront the radical Muslims because
0:39they're the people I love the most. They
0:42are radical. I'm just as radical. They
0:45go by a book and a man in a place. I go
0:47by another book, another man, another
0:48place. And so in some ways we're very
0:50similar. And they're the ones that I
0:52have grown up with. They are the ones
0:53that I had as roommates, as classmates
0:56growing up in India where there are 220
0:58million Muslims. I kid you not. It's the
1:01second largest Muslim country on earth.
1:03You think of India as a Hindu nation and
1:06there are 800 million Hindus, but
1:09there's 220 Muslims there as well. And
1:11they're mostly in the north where I grew
1:13up. And so I have grown up with Muslims
1:15all my life. And so they knew that my my
1:19mission knew that. And there there they
1:21said there's a real problem in London. I
1:23said, "London? That's not in the 1040
1:25window. The two parallels where Islam is
1:28the majority of Muslims are. It's way up
1:30in the north." I said, "Why London?"
1:32Well, it turns out that England being
1:35England has a commonwealth. And being a
1:38benevolent Commonwealth, they allow
1:40anybody who who is part of the
1:42Commonwealth to then come and set up
1:44shop in Britain. and most of them come
1:46to London.
1:48So that we have about 2% of our
1:51population now is Islamic. It may soon
1:53be 4% in Britain. But there's over a
1:56million and a half Muslims in London
1:58alone.
2:00When I got there, it was only a million
2:02Muslims out of 10 million. So a tenth of
2:04the population. And amongst them are the
2:06most radical Muslims on earth. And
2:08there's a reason for that.
2:11much more radical than your
2:14mainly more radical than should I pull
2:17it away. Is that what you're saying?
2:21I'll let this guy go and do it for me.
2:29He's from the same place I'm from. Jin
2:32in the so here at London they were all
2:35coming to London and many of them were
2:37coming not to really assimilate
2:40they were really bringing their religion
2:41with them and the Muslims are the most
2:44difficult we're finding to assimilate in
2:46any place they go you're finding that
2:47here in America as well
2:50the reason why is because for them
2:52everything they do is their religion
2:55they do not separate church and state
2:58they bring it together
3:00so how they walk talk, eat, drink, sleep
3:02is part of their religion. And so I was
3:04there in London and I was told if you
3:06want to find the radicals, you need to
3:07go to this place called Speaker's
3:08Corner. So I went down to Speaker's
3:10Corner innocently, naively. I already
3:12had two master's degree, one in divinity
3:14and one also in Islamic. So I thought I
3:16knew everything. Boy, did I did I get
3:18humbled. That first Sunday there, I came
3:21down to the corner and there were all
3:22these Muslims with Bibles in their
3:24hands. not Quran's Bibles with little
3:27post-it notes all the way through with
3:28all these seeming contradictions and
3:30seeming errors and seeming historical
3:33anacronisms. Boy, I never seen this
3:35before. I've never been taught this
3:37because we don't teach this in our Bible
3:39schools because most people don't engage
3:41with these kind of Muslims.
3:43You go to the Middle East where most
3:45Americans go, most missionaries go, they
3:47go to the Middle East, no one Middle
3:49East, no one's ever heard of
3:50Christianity hardly. We don't appear on
3:52the radar because we're not a threat
3:54there. Therefore, there is no there are
3:57no schools attacking our Bible or Lord
4:00Jesus Christ. But you go to Asia, you
4:03come to India, Pakistan and Bangladesh
4:05and they know all about our Bible and
4:07know all about our history and they boy
4:08do they know our theology and they all
4:10speak English.
4:12The entire educational system in both in
4:15Pakistan, India and Bangladesh are all
4:17in English because it's the neutral
4:19language. It's the language of the col
4:22the colonial language and because there
4:23are so many languages in those three
4:25countries you can who which language are
4:27you going to choose as the national
4:28language and their riots whenever you
4:30try to choose Hindi as the national
4:31language so they all bring it down to
4:32English which makes it that's one reason
4:35why Indians are all over the world
4:38because they can speak English that's
4:39why they're here in San Jose you got
4:42some of the best engineers in the world
4:44why because they do all their education
4:46in English so which means they get all
4:48the best textbooks and they're way ahead
4:50of many of our Americans. But
4:51nonetheless, there they were in England
4:53and I was going down the speaker's
4:54corner and I started engaging them and I
4:56started realizing we've been doing on
4:58the defense, defense, defense. We're
5:00always on the defense
5:02because all the questions were about the
5:04Trinity, about the divinity of Jesus,
5:05about the authority of our scriptures.
5:07You name it, they had it. And boy, did
5:08they know our Bible. And I realized,
5:10woof, not having been trained in how to
5:13defend against this, I said, 'Well, is
5:15there no other other way of going the
5:18other direction? Well, then I came
5:20across this man here, Dr. Gerald
5:22Haunting. Gerald Haunting is the head of
5:24department there at School of Orange and
5:26African Studies at the University of
5:27London. And he was teaching this new
5:30course in 1994
5:32called the Origins of Islam. Well, I
5:36thought I knew the origins of Islam.
5:37I've read the Sah of Muhammad, the
5:40biography of Muhammad. I have read
5:42Tabari, which goes into the how Islam
5:44began. I've read the and the which is
5:47the history of mankind. So I thought I
5:50knew everything because I we had to read
5:51these in seminary. And then I went to
5:53his class and the first thing he said
5:56almost the very first day was, you know,
5:58we don't have one reference to this man
6:00named Muhammad. Not one reference
6:03anywhere in the seventh century. In the
6:06entire century, there's no reference to
6:08this man.
6:11We can't find any mosque that is facing
6:14Mecca,
6:16the kibla, the direction of prayer.
6:19And he says the first biography written
6:21about this man was written by a man
6:23named Iban Hisham in 833, though he died
6:25in 632.
6:28Do you see a problem there, folks?
6:30200 years before someone wrote about
6:32this guy.
6:34And I start scratching my head. I said,
6:36I never heard this before. No one taught
6:37me this. Now in the class were about 50
6:40students. Half of them were Muslims
6:43because they wanted to hear about their
6:44origins.
6:46And as he was going through this,
6:48introducing all this new data that was
6:50coming out particularly from a group of
6:52of what we call revisionists,
6:54historians, people like Dr. Patricia
6:57Kurona who reads and writes 15
6:58languages.
7:01All these great
7:03scholars
7:05as he was going through this material,
7:08these Muslims who were in the class got
7:10up, went to the door, slammed the door
7:13and started yelling at Dr. Hoting.
7:15Nothing very pleasant and they never
7:17came back. Within two weeks, all the
7:20Muslims had left.
7:22Now, if you're a professor, you get your
7:24salary by depending on how many people
7:27you have in your class, right? and he
7:29lost half his class just because he was
7:31asking these questions.
7:34And I looked at this and I said, "This
7:35is amazing. This is the creme de la
7:38creme of the Muslims here in London.
7:39This is the best school, the best school
7:41to get this material and they can't even
7:43they cannot respond to this except by
7:46slamming the door."
7:48I said, "I need to learn this material.
7:50This is great. Wow." So, I started
7:54taking notes. I started raising my hand.
7:56He said, "You know that there's if you
7:57look at the Dome of the Rock, the third
7:58most holy shrine in Islam right there in
8:01Jerusalem. It has no kibla. It has no
8:03direction." I raised my hand. WOW,
8:06THAT'S AMAZING. WHY IS IT DR. I'm not
8:08going to I'm not going to tell you
8:09there's no He didn't want to come to any
8:11conclusions because he saw what had just
8:14happened with all his Muslim students.
8:18And I realized something. These
8:19academics, they dare not come to
8:21conclusions. Not in their classes, not
8:24in public. It's not very safe.
8:27So, I started taking his material down
8:29to Speaker's Corner, which is where I
8:32was going every Sunday.
8:35And by that time, I hadn't really got up
8:37on the ladder yet because that happened
8:38in two in 1995.
8:41But I was started introducing it there
8:42on the ground. And boy, I got beat up. I
8:44got punched. I got my glasses broken for
8:48just asking simple historical questions.
8:53Finally, a group of Muslims came up to
8:54me because they've been hearing what was
8:56going on. And they said, 'Well, listen,
8:57we don't have answers to this, but
8:58there's a man who is coming through. His
9:00name is Dr. Jamal Badawi. He is the man
9:02who is probably the best one in the
9:04world to answer these questions. Would
9:05you like to do a debate with him? And I
9:07said, well, I've never did a debate in
9:09my life. I've never been trained to do a
9:10debate. How do you do it? They said,
9:12well, we'll we'll train you to do that.
9:14So, I said, okay, let's do it. So in
9:16August 29th 1995 I did my first debate
9:20with Dr. Jamal Badawi. There he is up
9:22there. Dr. Jamal Badawi and I at
9:26Cambridge University at Trinity College
9:28went for a two-hour debate on is the
9:31Quran the word of God. So we were
9:33confronting the Quran, but I started
9:34using 10 historical challenges. Now
9:37where did I get those 10 historical
9:38challenges? I had gone the week before
9:40up to Cambridge University to Dr.
9:42Patricia Corones head of department had
9:44already written two books on this
9:46subject. She has and Oxford University
9:48when she wrote Hagarism in 1977 in 1987.
9:52She wrote mech and trade in the rise of
9:54Islam probably the most devastating book
9:56that's ever been written on the problems
9:58with the historicity of Islam. So I
10:01wanted to scratch her mind. So she had
10:02me in her office there and I said, "Help
10:05me with this debate." And so she gave me
10:0810 historical points. After about 3
10:10hours, I turned to her and I said, "Why
10:11aren't you doing this debate? You're the
10:13one that did all the research. You know
10:15all the languages. I don't." She kind of
10:17laughed at me and she said, "You know,
10:20Jay, let me tell you something.
10:23I have a chair to protect. An academic
10:25chair to protect. I have an institution
10:28to represent.
10:30I would not dare do this debate in
10:32public.
10:33Don't ask me to do this debate. I
10:35cannot. But you you have no chair to
10:38protect and the only person you
10:41represent is Jesus Christ.
10:44Ooh,
10:45here is an atheist telling me exactly
10:48who I was and what it was all about and
10:52basically saying, "You have the freedoms
10:54I don't have." And that's true, folks.
10:57This is a debate only we can do.
11:01This is the subject we can only handle.
11:03We're the only ones that can handle
11:04this. We have a freedom the academics
11:07don't.
11:09So I was really encouraged. So I started
11:11taking this material down. Back in those
11:13days, you remember these old big old
11:14VHS's? If those of you who have gray
11:16hair know what I'm talking about, those
11:17VHS boxes that we used to look at and
11:20they'd have these bulky bulky cameras
11:22that would film on them. Well, someone
11:23came down to Speaker's corner and filmed
11:25me when I was engaging in a debate with
11:27a Muslim on Dr. Gerald Hotting's
11:29material
11:31that got into a bookstore and some one
11:33of the students bought it and gave it to
11:34Dr. Gerald Hutting Hoting. He came he
11:36brought me into his office and he gave
11:38me a tongue lashing. Don't you ever use
11:41this material in public. I said, "Hold
11:42on a minute.
11:45I'm doing you a favor.
11:47You're teaching this me this material.
11:49Once you teach it and it's no longer
11:51yours, it's now mine. And what I'm doing
11:54is I'm field testing it for you right
11:56here at Hyde Park with Muslims. I want
11:59Muslims to hear it. You've already lost
12:02all your Muslims. So I've got to go
12:04where they are. The best and the
12:06brightest in the world. The most radical
12:07Muslims in the world. Speakers corner.
12:10Hundreds of them.
12:12And I'm getting beat up. Not you. I am
12:15doing what you call peer review. This is
12:17called peer review. I'm getting it
12:19within seconds.
12:21and I'm finding what is weak, what is
12:23strong, what works, what doesn't work.
12:26You should be thanking me for it.
12:29He was insensed. Can you see for him
12:32this was not something that he believed
12:34in or something that he would fall on
12:36his sword for. It was nothing more than
12:38an academic exercise. That's all it was
12:40for him. But for me,
12:44this material is going to bring millions
12:46of Muslims to Christ because I could see
12:50if it did this much damage with just
12:52those 20 Muslims that left his course
12:54within the first two weeks. And if the
12:57only answer they could give me there at
12:58Speaker's Corner is to punch me in the
13:00face,
13:02folks, we've got something here
13:05that I've never come across before and
13:07no one's teaching it here in America at
13:08all. you have never seen what they have
13:11there.
13:14So I decided I'm going to continue doing
13:16this. Well, then the Christians started
13:19attacking me.
13:22Colin Chapman, head of is the Islamic
13:24work for the Anglican church there in
13:26England. He did not like what I was
13:28doing. He tried to ask me to stop it
13:30because I'm an a foreigner. He says, you
13:32know, you're representing the church
13:33here and as the church, we don't like
13:35you doing this. would you in fact would
13:37you like to let's have a internal
13:39debate. So they he planned an internal
13:40debate at Sully Oaks College in
13:42Birmingham in 1997 and I was to debate
13:45this man Dr. David Marshall that you see
13:47there who had got his doctorate at
13:49Oxford University on the Quran. So he
13:51would be an academic debating me not
13:54really an academic at that time because
13:56I hadn't really I didn't have a
13:57doctorate at that time and they invited
14:00only Christian academics to this debate.
14:02They invited 50 Christian academics
14:05and we debated two subjects. Should we
14:08use PMICS with Muslims number one and
14:11should we employ historical criticism?
14:15Now you can tell which side I was on.
14:17Yes and yes to both of them. And he was
14:20saying no and no. And so they didn't had
14:23a they wanted people then to decide the
14:2650 that were there which one did they
14:29support. 25 went with him. 25 went with
14:32me. Who do you guess went with him?
14:36All the academics,
14:38all of those who were teaching at
14:40different universities, they went with
14:42him. And all the missionaries on the
14:44ground went with me. Surprise, surprise.
14:48And as we were driving home back to
14:50London, the man who was in the car with
14:52me, Dr. Peter Redell, right there,
14:55explained what was going on. And he
14:57pretty much said the same thing in 1997
14:59that Patricia Cron had told me in her
15:01office in 1995.
15:04Jay, we don't have this freedom as an
15:06academic himself. We like what you're
15:08doing. At least I like with you what
15:10you're doing. But if we were to ever
15:12have these kind of discussions or these
15:14debates within our uh within our our
15:17environment there on the campus within
15:20our offices there would we would be
15:22thrown out of the university. Academics
15:25cannot ask these questions anymore. Not
15:27in Britain. In America, yes, but not in
15:29Britain anymore.
15:32But you can.
15:35You as a missionary, you can use this.
15:38Don't stop using it. We'll feed you the
15:41material and you actually use it. So I
15:43became the mouthpiece. I became the
15:45voice for the academics
15:48and did the field testing for them. Now
15:52since then, let me say one thing. When
15:54that happened in the debate that I had
15:56with Dr. Jim Badawi, I gave those 10
15:59historical challenges from Dr. Patricia
16:01Corona and after the two hours he turned
16:04to me he says well everything you're
16:05arguing from is based on silence
16:09and the absence of evidence does not
16:11prove the evidence of absence
16:14and he was correct.
16:16The absence of evidence does not prove
16:18the evidence of abs the evidence of ab
16:21the absence of evidence does not prove
16:22the evidence of absence which is true at
16:24some point. Just because it's silent now
16:26doesn't mean at some point we will find
16:28the evidence. And I said well you're
16:30looking you're waiting 1400 years and
16:31you still can't find it. How many more
16:33hundred years do we have to wait?
16:35He says nonetheless
16:38nothing you have
16:40proves what you're saying.
16:42Well that was 1995.
16:45We're now in 2025
16:48and boy do we now have the evidence.
16:52It's completely changed.
16:54But let's get into that. Since there are
16:57mirror, our material has matured.
17:02Back in 2023, I introduced the three
17:05major areas that we're investigating.
17:07The book, the man, and the place. I call
17:08it the book, the Quran, the man,
17:09Muhammad, and the place. Mecca. Those
17:12three are really the three kingpins.
17:14Those are the by far the three weakest
17:17and you'll see why. We're not going to
17:18get into all three today. We don't have
17:20time. I already did that two years ago.
17:22You can go look at that. But 2.5 million
17:24people have now watched that one hour,
17:26just that one hour talk I did at Chino
17:28Hills, Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills. And
17:31then of course you some of you may know
17:33that in April of this year Raymond
17:35Ibraham who's who's a Coptic Christian
17:38confronted me with two videos he put up
17:41confronting me with why whether or not
17:43we should do this kind of debate and
17:44whether or not it's healthy. Much the
17:46same confrontation I got from not only
17:48from Dr. David Marshall but also Dr.
17:51Chaot Mukuri there in Britain where I
17:52did another debate with him an internal
17:54debate a Christian debate on whether or
17:56not we should use polymics and number
17:58two whether or not we should use
18:00historical criticism. So I decided to go
18:03to Chino Hills about a month and a half
18:05ago June July 6th little over a month
18:08and a half ago Jack Hibbs asked me to
18:11come back and said could you do another
18:12talk and this time we're going to give
18:15you two hours but this time we want you
18:16to talk about Muhammad the new material
18:19you have on Muhammad. So I went a year
18:21and a a month and a half ago July 6th
18:24and did that talk and that has gone all
18:27over the world confronting this man here
18:29confronting what he had done in April
18:31saying you don't realize just how
18:33damaging what we have now is on
18:36Muhammad. Now normally I would never
18:38debate Muhammad because it's not a
18:40debate you can debate yet. There's we
18:42just don't know enough about Muhammad.
18:44We just have nothing there. There's
18:45nothing there.
18:47And so I said, "Okay, let's" and so I
18:50put that V up and that's gone to a
18:51million and a half in just the last
18:52week, a month and a half. And as a
18:55result, there I am at Calvary Chapels on
18:56July 6. Suddenly, three weeks ago,
18:59suddenly after that debate,
19:03two Muslim scholars have come up with
19:05material that you will not believe.
19:08Two Muslim scholars, one is Dr. Yaski
19:12and the other is Dr. Shabir Ali. Here's
19:15a picture of Dr. Yasarcati and that's
19:18the interview that he did on July 9th.
19:20So we're not talking about too long ago.
19:22We're just talking about a month and a
19:23half ago. He was asked the question,
19:27what are you going to do with Muhammad?
19:29What are you going to do with this man
19:32where when you ask when you look and see
19:35what he said and did since there is
19:37nothing there in the seventh century,
19:39nothing there in the 8th century, it
19:41only begins to appear in the 9th
19:42century. What are you going to do when
19:44historical criticism asks you, "How can
19:46you prove this man existed?"
19:48Perfectly legitimate question. It's not
19:51me asking the question. It was another
19:53Muslim.
19:54So this Muslim asked that question,
19:56"Yes, Kadi, you can see it. You can
19:58watch the video. It's only a month and a
19:59half old." He kind of looked down. And
20:01he says, "Well, I'm probably the only
20:02one in the world that can answer this
20:03question
20:05because I am the only one that has
20:07understands both camps, both
20:11epistemologies."
20:13He said, "I did my first degree at
20:15Medina University in the hadith sciences
20:20and so I understand all about that."
20:22Now, when he says hadith, he means and
20:24he's talking about all the traditions,
20:26but hadith he meant just what the
20:29prophet said.
20:31But afterwards I went to Yale University
20:33and I did a PhD in historical criticism.
20:36And he says when you look at these two
20:38different epistemologies
20:41there's no way we can bring them
20:42together. They are diametrically
20:45opposed.
20:48So he says when I'm here in the mosque I
20:51talk and I quote from alkari and
20:52sahibus. I quote from tmidi and mai and
20:56I quote from all the traditions. I go
20:57back to Ibenham and Alwakiri and I go
20:59back to Alabari and I quote them in the
21:02mosque here but when I go over here when
21:04I'm here in Texas coming back home and
21:08I'm here in academia I never quote them
21:12and what he said then is but the reason
21:14why is because western academia has
21:18discredited
21:19completely discredited hadith sciences
21:25that's only happened on July 9th this
21:27the first time we have now had a Muslim
21:29scholar admit what the rest of us have
21:31known I've known for over 30 years.
21:34He did it publicly just a month and a
21:36half ago.
21:38Western science,
21:41historical criticism has completely
21:44discredited hadith sciences. Everything
21:46Muhammad said and did. Now, of course,
21:49this caused a fury
21:51Hatun and I went and immediately put a
21:53video up and unpacked this for everybody
21:54to understand what he's talking about.
21:56July 28th then probably the second best
22:00Muslim scholar in the world. This one
22:02right here, Dr. Shabid Ali. We're good
22:03friends. I've debated him six times. The
22:06last time I debated him was in 2014. And
22:08I debated him on the six manuscripts of
22:11the Quran, the six major manuscripts.
22:14And he had no response to it except I
22:16don't know. I don't I don't care. I
22:18don't care what the manuscripts say. We
22:20know that if you look at this verse and
22:21you look at this verse, you get 19. If
22:23you look at these set of verses with
22:24these set of verses, you get 19. 19 1919
22:2619 the miracle of the number 19. That
22:29was his only response. And after the by
22:31the end of the debate I said which 19
22:33verses are you talking about and which
22:35manuscript are you looking at? None of
22:37these manuscripts have verses none of
22:40these six have verses. So which one are
22:42you talking about? And he finally had to
22:44admit it was the time 1924 manuscript
22:47less than 100 years old.
22:49the 1924 manuscript. But this
22:52manuscript, as you say, was created by
22:54Muhammad, I mean by Uman in 652.
22:58Completely discredited the manuscripts.
23:00That just happened 10 years ago.
23:04But on July 28th, his daughter that you
23:06can see the lady that's sitting up next
23:08to him, that's his daughter, asked him
23:10this question. What are you going to say
23:12what Yasukadi just mentioned? How are
23:14you going to define and how are you
23:16going to defend what Yasfkotti just said
23:18on July 6?
23:22What are we going to do with historical
23:23criticism on this side? What are you
23:25going to do with Western academia when
23:28they now when they say that the H hadith
23:32sciences have been discredited?
23:35And he he did like Yasakai this is a
23:38hard question
23:41and then he explained how he how he
23:44understands historical how he
23:46understands hadith sciences.
23:48He said hadith sciences are based on
23:52people
23:54who are truly
23:57without error.
23:59The Sahaba he called them are without
24:02error. And what they received and what
24:04they saw, what the prophet said and what
24:06the prophet did, they wrote down 100%
24:10accurately
24:11and what they remembered, what they
24:13wrote down was absolutely perfect.
24:17And those who received it got it exactly
24:20as it was said and as it was done.
24:25And I said, "Wow, are you really
24:26admitting that to everybody? That is
24:30your historical criticism? That is what
24:32we're supposed to believe.
24:36These Sahabah, you want to know how many
24:38of them there are.
24:41120,000 of them.
24:44120,000 companions of the prophet
24:46Muhammad
24:48are absolutely truthful. Why? Because we
24:50know they were truthful. They were
24:52absolutely pure. And what they said,
24:55they memorized. what they saw when they
24:56memorized and everything they memorized
24:59they passed on completely perfectly to
25:02the next generation the tabune it's
25:04called the tabune
25:07so his daughter asked him are you sure
25:09that they is this why the historical
25:12critics are saying that they don't trust
25:14that
25:15he says yes that's why she says are
25:17there no western critics well there
25:20maybe possibly Matzky he said that's one
25:22name he could only find one person that
25:25could trust the HUDI scientist. That
25:27just happened on July 28th.
25:30Then on July 31st,
25:35another interview,
25:37Yasakadi again back at Epic City. Have
25:41any of you heard of Epic City?
25:43East Plato Islamic Center
25:46that is now being built as the first
25:49Islamic city in United States northeast
25:53of Dallas.
25:56Well, he's in charge of it. He's the man
25:59that is really he's the one that's you
26:01raising it up and getting millions from
26:02all over the world, mostly from the
26:05Middle East.
26:06And every day or whatever, he gets
26:09together with his students and they ask
26:10questions. So, they ask this question
26:12about what he said on July 6. So, just a
26:14month ago, uh today, a month ago,
26:18he was then asked, "How can you explain
26:20the authority for hadith sciences?" Now,
26:22I'm not going to tell you what he
26:23answered. We have the video and I'm
26:27going to unpack it on Wednesday of this
26:29week. You're going to love what he has
26:31to say. He thought he was only talking
26:33to his students. He had no idea that we
26:35were all listening.
26:37And now we're going to share it with the
26:38whole world.
26:40This is going to be fun. So, get up on
26:42Fander Films on Wednesday evening or
26:44probably Thursday morning and see what
26:46exactly what he said. proving that the
26:50Muslims have no idea what the prophet
26:52said or what the prophet did.
26:56It's all based on oral tradition.
26:59Hundreds of years of oral tradition. He
27:02got it from so and so who got it from
27:04so- and so who got it from so- and so
27:05who got it from so- and so who got it
27:07from the prophet himself.
27:09Yet not one of those so and so wrote one
27:12word down.
27:15Can you imagine if that's all we had for
27:17Jesus Christ?
27:19Can you imagine that our Matthew, Mark,
27:21Luke, and John did not live in the first
27:23century. They lived in the fourth
27:25century. Oh, wait. Right now, it's still
27:282 century. But wait along. We're going
27:30to get to that. And that everything
27:32Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John wrote was
27:34from way up in Turkey. They lived in
27:36Turkey. They didn't live in Jerusalem.
27:37They didn't live at all in Palestine.
27:39And everything they got was from oral
27:42tradition passed down five generations
27:44from so and so to so and so to so and so
27:46that no one wrote it down and what they
27:48wrote was nothing more than
27:51hearsay
27:53Chinese whispers.
27:55You've been in these kids birthday
27:58parties when someone tells you
28:00something. You tell him and you tell him
28:02and you tell him and you tell her and
28:03finally what you tell me and what he
28:05tell me are two different things and
28:06that happens within 15 minutes. What do
28:08you think happens within 200 years? Can
28:12you imagine if you have nothing written
28:15down?
28:17No wonder they don't want to come out in
28:19public. Well, they just came out in
28:21public a month ago and we're going to
28:23introduce that to the whole world on
28:25Wednesday.
28:27So bear with us. I don't want to give it
28:29away because I want you to see what's
28:31where that's going. So what
28:34presuppositions do we start with? How
28:36should we interpret the historical
28:37evidence we find?
28:40Now for the west and those of us in
28:41Christianity, we want written records.
28:45We want it to be written down right
28:46away. When you do something, when you
28:48pay for something, you get a receipt,
28:49right? To prove that you paid for it,
28:51right? We want it there. Our records so
28:53that if we get breaks or we have to take
28:54it back, we have a proof that we bought
28:56it from that in that that on that place.
28:59And this starts from the premise that
29:00anything historical should have
29:02supporting written evidence from its
29:04time period or credibly close enough.
29:07That evidence should be consistent with
29:09the time and place in which it is found.
29:12That's how we do it in the west. That's
29:13called historical criticism. And that's
29:15what I've grown up with when I was in
29:16seminary. That's what we were taught. We
29:18went to textual criticism. We went to
29:20redacted and s force form criticism and
29:23source criticism. We went through all
29:25the higher and lower criticisms on the
29:27Bible itself because the Bible has been
29:30asked that from 1800s with wellhousen
29:33and the the University of Tubigan.
29:35They've been asking that question. How
29:36do we know that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and
29:39John got it correct? How do we where are
29:41their documents? Where are their
29:42manuscripts? How can we trust them?
29:47But see, Islam has no idea of anything
29:50written down. Everything is oral.
29:54So they start from the premise that
29:56anything historical must simply come
29:57from the mouths of the Sahab, the
29:59companions, those who were around
30:00Muhammad, the 120,000, 60,000 in Mecca
30:04and probably let's say 60,000 in Medina.
30:07Stop and think that's true. If these
30:08were the men that were with Muhammad,
30:1060,000 they all had wives, that's
30:12another 60,000. So there you have
30:14120,000 in Mecca. If that were sue, what
30:16about their children? What about those
30:17who were not with Muhammad? What about
30:19all the politician? What about the
30:20merchants? What about the other people?
30:22After you start adding it up, it comes
30:24to about 500,000
30:26in Mecca. Half a million in Mecca. Hold
30:30on to that because I'm going to touch
30:31I'm going to ask that question of Mecca
30:33in just a bit. Nonetheless, can you see
30:35we're talking about not just a few,
30:37we're talking about tens of thousands.
30:40That's about the side of Albuquerque or
30:42Sacramento.
30:44Take that under your thing because when
30:46we get to Mecca, hold that because
30:48you're we're going to ask that question.
30:50Western academic presupposition. How do
30:53these two camps on this side hadith
30:55sciences on this side historical
30:57criticism how do they look at historical
30:59evidence and how do we find especially
31:02for Islam? Now the western academics the
31:05university professors they assume and
31:08this is the what's really to me is
31:09really troubling academics here in the
31:11west they assume that the standard
31:13Islamic narrative is mostly correct. Now
31:17can you see the problem? That's why I'm
31:19having such a problem with academics
31:20here in the west. They start with that
31:23assumption. Now, why do they start with
31:25that assumption?
31:27Because of their methodology,
31:30they have to they have no other they
31:32have no other choice. They dare not say
31:34what they really found. They can't do
31:35that publicly and they cannot print it.
31:37And that's why they have to assume the
31:39standard Islamic narrative. The Islamic
31:41traditions are are correct. And that is
31:43the the hadith the taps and the tadik.
31:47They have to because of their academic
31:49necessity.
31:51They can't talk about it because of
31:53their fellow academics. If they're
31:55Muslim and if they ever were to say so
31:57something publicly, they would lose
31:59their salary because most of our
32:01academic institutions in the Middle
32:02Eastern departments are funded by Middle
32:05Eastern oil money. And also they could
32:08be killed if they said so publicly. Look
32:11what's happened to Salman Rusti. They're
32:13still trying to kill him for just one
32:15book he wrote. Look at Tlimas.
32:18Look at Fuzman
32:20Guchi. All these names, they just roll
32:22off your tongue. People after people who
32:24have been killed as academics for simply
32:27asking simple questions about the histoy
32:29of Islam.
32:32The conclusion they may not say publicly
32:34what they discover privately.
32:37That's the problem with our academics
32:38here today. There is such a fear in
32:40academia to confront Islam.
32:43Missionaries, myself included, we assume
32:46that the standard Islamic narrative is
32:47mostly false.
32:50So if we assume it's false, our
32:52methodology is to prove that the
32:54standard Islamic narrative is false
32:56historically. We do not have any chairs
32:59to protect, as I said earlier, or any
33:01institutions represent except Jesus
33:02Christ.
33:04Therefore, we have the freedom to save
33:07publicly what we are finding privately.
33:09Just the opposite from the academics.
33:12Therefore, we can do that despite the
33:15repercussions. And folks, I have been
33:17beat up for this. I've had my throat
33:18opened up because of this. It is not a
33:20pleasant thing to take what you know
33:22privately and to use it publicly,
33:23especially at places like Speaker's
33:25Corner.
33:28Now, Muslim scholars are finally
33:29admitting Islam's original origin
33:32problem.
33:34Everything that they believe for their
33:35origins come from documents written two
33:37to30 years after Islam supposedly began
33:40according to their standard Islamic
33:42narrative. S I N. Isn't that great?
33:46Everything they stand for is sin and
33:49everything I confront is sin. Oh, it
33:51makes my job so easy.
33:54I wish everybody would come on board.
33:58Now to find credibility for anything
34:00Muhammad said or did, Muslims use what
34:02they call mutton. Every time Muhammad
34:05spoke, what he spoke is the mutton. That
34:08is the stories and the sayings. But in
34:11order to give credibility to them
34:13because since no one wrote it down, it
34:15has to come from isnad the name of the
34:17names of people from where that was sent
34:19down orally. So you have the mutton here
34:22with a whole list of names at the very
34:24beginning. So and so got this saying
34:27from Muhammad from so- and so from so-
34:28and so who got it from so and so who got
34:29it from so and so he got it from the
34:31companion the Sahaba who then got it
34:33from the prophet himself
34:35passing down the mountain which was
34:37purportedly goes back to the Sahaba
34:39that's the companions of the prophet who
34:40were right there they were the
34:41eyewitnesses or the tabune who got it
34:44from the eyewitnesses all right that's
34:46how it works
34:48this is the only Arabic I'm going to
34:50teach you tonight okay you don't have to
34:52know any more Arabic well that's not
34:54quite true I will teach you one or two
34:55more words. Yet none of those those so
34:58and so none of those that oral tradition
35:01ever wrote anything down for two to 300
35:03years.
35:05So it was dependent on oral tradition
35:07hearsay or Chinese whisers. I'm
35:09repeating myself now. In comparison our
35:12earliest Christian sahaba see we have
35:14sahabas too. We have eyewitnesses.
35:16Matthew and John were eyewitnesses were
35:18they not? They were right with Jesus the
35:20la last three years of his life. They
35:22saw what he did and they heard what he
35:23said.
35:25and they wrote down immediately what he
35:26said and did.
35:29Then we also have the tabune. We also
35:31have tabune. Mark and Luke would be the
35:33tabune. They were the ones that got it
35:34from the the Sahaba.
35:40We have such a treasure trove of
35:42material.
35:45We have 24,000 m manuscripts alone.
35:48That's 8,500 Greek manuscripts, 10,000
35:51Latin Vulgates, another 19,000 in 111
35:55different languages. You add them all up
35:57together, that's 24,000 manuscripts. If
36:00we had wanted to corrupt it or create it
36:02or delete any one of them, we would have
36:03to go to every one of those 24,000
36:05manuscripts, change every one of them at
36:08the same place and no one know about it
36:11in 11 different languages.
36:14But that's not the only genre we have.
36:17We also have 2,300 lectionaries
36:21from the sixth century alone. That's 100
36:23years before Islam.
36:26That's a whole another genre. And those
36:27lectionaries completely support what we
36:29see in the manuscript evidence. But we
36:32also have a third genre which is the
36:35early church fathers quotations. God
36:37bless the early church fathers. They
36:38were getting all these gnostic heretics
36:41coming within the community and they
36:42were having to have these debates. Now
36:44they could have debated them but what
36:45they did was they would just write
36:47letters and in the letters they would
36:48just quote scripture verse after
36:50scripture verse after scripture verse to
36:52defend what they were saying and those
36:53scripture verses were written mostly on
36:55papyrus and those disintegrate and then
36:58they deteriorate but they also get put
37:01into trash pits. Oxarinkus outside of
37:04Egypt is one of the biggest trash from
37:06which now Christians have been going and
37:08pulling these out these scripture
37:10verses. And they have been able to come
37:12up with 85 86,000 of these early church
37:16fathers quotations.
37:18They wanted to find out how many of
37:19these early church fathers quotations
37:21predated the 4th century predated our
37:24manuscript evidence of the complete
37:26manuscript the siaticus the Alexandrinus
37:29and the Vaticanis. So they wanted to go
37:31get before the metropolitan cotices.
37:33They wanted to find how many of these
37:35early church fathers quotations predated
37:37it. 36,000 quotations, but they
37:40especially wanted to look at the gospel
37:42of John because the gospel of John has
37:43the highest Christologology. It's the
37:45best one to use with Muslims. Jes wrote
37:49it for that very reason as a confr to
37:51confront as a plumic against the
37:52Gnostics.
37:54Just by looking at the Gospel of John,
37:56just within those 36,000 quotations from
38:00before the 4th century, they were able
38:03to reproduce the entire Gospel of John
38:05except for 11 verses.
38:09That's my Bible. That's your Bible. I've
38:13given you three different genres right
38:14there.
38:16Completely different genres, not
38:18dependent on each other, and yet they
38:19all say the same thing. That's why the
38:22Bible is so authoritative and that's why
38:25for 200 years they've been trying to
38:27confront the Bible and they cannot. The
38:29Bible is the only book in the world that
38:32can make that claim
38:34but not Islam,
38:37not the Quran.
38:40So why are there so many Christians who
38:42are attacking us this last week? Now,
38:45this next part I wasn't planning to do
38:47tonight, but your pastor asked me to do
38:49this because of what happened at Chino
38:52Hills, Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills last
38:54month.
38:56I've been getting attack after attack
38:58after attack and especially last week, a
39:03week ago, Thursday, I did a debate
39:07with Dr. Raymond Ibrahim that you saw
39:09his picture up there. And boy did the
39:12Christians go berserk.
39:15You won't believe how how hard it's been
39:17this last week. This has probably been
39:18the hardest week of my life. I have
39:21never had attacks from Christians
39:22before.
39:24You haven't seen it because you're not
39:25on the internet. This is all happening
39:27on the internet. And Mike, your pastor,
39:30has. And he wanted me to explain what's
39:32going on. So let's walk away and let's
39:35just look at what's been going on.
39:39Number one, all these attacks I'm
39:40getting, and really it's from four
39:42individuals,
39:45two women and two men,
39:48they're all on the internet. And these
39:50are all what we call people who are
39:51spend their whole life on the internet.
39:53Well, maybe not their whole life, but
39:54they spend all their time on the
39:55internet. So, this is an internet attack
39:57that's really uh trying to take us
39:59apart.
40:01Not amongst the others who are working
40:02in Islam. In fact, I'm getting lots of
40:04encouragement from people who work on
40:06the ground who are in different
40:07countries and say, "Jay, don't worry
40:08about this. This is not, please don't
40:10take this personally." But boy are their
40:13followers full of hate.
40:16They believe that those of us who are
40:18doing the research, the historical
40:19research, think that we are above
40:21criticism, which we aren't. I don't know
40:24where they got that from. and that we
40:26just wish that and and the pro my
40:29problem is rather than going on the
40:31internet and putting this splashing this
40:33all over their channels
40:35that we are lying
40:38that we are arrogant
40:40that most of our facts are wrong or
40:42erroneous. Why didn't they come to us
40:44personally? Isn't that the Christian
40:46thing you're supposed to do?
40:49I've always thought so. Matthew 18, come
40:51to us personally and tell us what your
40:53problem is. But no, they put it all over
40:56the internet.
41:00They are fearful that if we and there's
41:02really only five of us who are doing
41:03what we're doing and there's really only
41:05two of us who are really pushing it at
41:07its level and that's myself and Mel from
41:09Ireland. There's Dr. Robert Spenc uh
41:12Robert Spencer from here in the United
41:14States. You know him, he works with me.
41:17And then there is Alfati who I work with
41:19right left and center from Saudi Arabia.
41:23And then there's Hatutas that I talked
41:25about this morning, the lady who's
41:27become a legend. We're the only five
41:28that are doing this in the entire world.
41:30And really, it's Mel and I really who
41:32are who are pushing the boundaries of
41:34this historical critique.
41:38They assume that if we question his
41:39Islam historically, that will boomerang
41:42back on Christianity and it Christianity
41:45will be questioned. Folks, I hope so.
41:48We've been we've had this kind of
41:50questions for 200 years. Why are we
41:52scared of that?
41:54In fact, let them question Christianity.
41:57Thank God we have nothing at all to
41:59fear.
42:01Our discoveries are brand new and ever
42:03changing. And I always say, remember
42:05whenever I get up there, this is a green
42:06paper. No one else has done this before.
42:08We're pushing it out there. We're
42:10saying, look at what we found. This is a
42:12green paper. Do you all know what green
42:14papers are? Maybe you don't. In Britain,
42:16whenever the government wants to leak
42:17something to the press, they put a green
42:19paper out and the press then splashes it
42:21all over the newspapers and they see how
42:23the people react. And if the people do
42:25not like it, then they don't go with
42:27that policy. If the people like it, then
42:29they go with that pip that policy and it
42:31becomes a white paper. Then it becomes
42:33their policy. But you put these field
42:35tests out there. This is what green
42:37papers are. And so almost everything
42:39we're doing are green papers when they
42:41go up on the internet. This is what we
42:44have found. Maybe this is what it means.
42:45Oh, no way. Maybe but so this mean so
42:47what I've just been doing be so that
42:49this is not a problem. I always date
42:50whenever I'm saying something. I put a
42:52date there. So in August of 2025, this
42:56is what we're at. But it may change in a
42:58year because new evidence may come to
42:59light. And this is what you do in
43:01history. Historians have to do this. You
43:03always have to revise and revise and
43:05revise. And you always have to keep
43:07going and following where the evidence
43:08leads. And you have no idea where the
43:10evidence leads, especially us because
43:12we're the first to do it.
43:14No one else has done this yet.
43:17Well, I don't say that. That's not quite
43:19true. The Germans have.
43:22Everything we're finding, the Germans
43:24have always been ahead of us. Since the
43:271920s, they've known much of what we're
43:29finding today. So, we're now turning to
43:30the Germans say, "Just feed us your
43:32material." They say, "No, no, no, no. We
43:34want to keep this in German. We don't
43:36want this in English. This is much too
43:38damaging." And I say, "Absolutely." But
43:41see, they're not Christians. They're
43:43just academics.
43:45They're amazing guys and gals. In
43:48France, they're the same way. The
43:50Europeans are way ahead of us here in
43:52America. And so, we're trying to get
43:54them when finally we have some Germans
43:56who are coming our way. Carl Hinesig,
44:01Dr. Robert Kerr, this man reason, writes
44:0410 languages, head of department at
44:06Brussels University, he teaches only in
44:08French, sir. Head of department at Solan
44:09University in Sa Burkin in Western
44:11Germany. He teaches all in German there.
44:15Then sometimes he teaches in Hebrew,
44:17sometimes he teaches in Latin. He just
44:18keeps going from language to language to
44:20language. And I can't keep up with him
44:21because I only speak English. Well,
44:23that's not true. I speak French, too.
44:25But boy, this guy's amazing. And what's
44:27really great, he's part of what they
44:30call the Inata group. This is this group
44:32of scholars. They're in Germany. They
44:33get together every two years that
44:35actually unpop all of this newest
44:37research, but they keep it in German so
44:39the rest of the world don't hear it
44:40because they don't want Muslims to see
44:43this. But I do
44:46I want them to see this. And I've been
44:47doing this for 30 years, taking Gerald
44:49Haunting's material. Now I'm taking
44:50Robert Kerr's material and I'm just
44:52field testing it for them. Boy, and this
44:55is the damaging Islam right at its very
44:58cores.
44:59So we have to keep with green papers.
45:03And my problem is me. A lot of them they
45:05has a problem with me because I'm so
45:06passionate. I don't know where they
45:08think that.
45:11And of course they think that my passion
45:12is arrogance because I do come across as
45:14arrogant. My wife tells me that all the
45:16time.
45:18And so that's why I need to start
45:19calming down and being a little bit
45:22nuanced in the way I present it.
45:25They want to see see our sources. And I
45:27we put them out there every time. But
45:29thing is on YouTube you can't really get
45:30the sources. It's coming from our
45:32mouths. And so what we're going to do is
45:34we're putting it onto a book because
45:36then they can see our sources. Then it's
45:39there for them to read and investigate.
45:42And some look at the evidence we provide
45:44and interpret it differently than we do.
45:46And this is a big problem. A lot of them
45:48who are new onto this game. Some of
45:49them, most of them who are attacking us
45:51have only been seeing what we're talking
45:53about in the last two years. But I've
45:54been doing this for 30 years. And if you
45:57only come in late in the game, you're
45:58not going to know the forest for the
46:01trees. They're looking at this tree and
46:02they're looking at that that tree and
46:03they're looking at this tree and they're
46:04saying, "Oh, here's a piece of here's a
46:06coin here. Oh, over here is a is a
46:08inscription and over here is a letter
46:10written by a church father in the
46:12seventh century and they're just looking
46:14at that and they're not getting up above
46:15the forest where I have to be all the
46:18time. I have to be a helicopter up here
46:19looking down on the whole forest because
46:21I've been doing that for 30 years. I've
46:23seen all those trees already. You've got
46:25to get back and see the bigger picture.
46:28They don't understand that yet because
46:29they're not historians and they've not
46:31even been part of this work for many
46:33years yet. Solution. Well, my best
46:37friend is leaving now this work. He just
46:40told me this afternoon.
46:42It's been too much for him.
46:44There's another reason, too. There's two
46:47reasons.
46:49So, that leaves me alone for now to work
46:51together. I'm not I might have to
46:52reassess my possession position on it.
46:55Meanwhile, what is the strongest
46:57argument in this whole historical
46:59critique?
47:01At the foreground and at the at the
47:03background and the foundation of
47:05everything we're arguing comes Mecca.
47:07Mecca is where everything falls out of
47:10whack.
47:12Now, you say, Mecca, that little town
47:14down there in the western side of Saudi
47:17Arabia, Mecca, that Mecca. Yes,
47:21that is by far the most dangerous piece
47:24of evidence for Islam.
47:27Some of you know where I'm going because
47:28you know the argument already. Why
47:30Mecca? [snorts]
47:31Mecca is foundational to everything.
47:34And it all starts from one's
47:36presupposition which dictates our
47:38conclusion. So for Muslims, this is
47:41their presupposition. Mecca has always
47:44Mecca was the oldest city in the history
47:46of mankind because it was Mecca where
47:48Adam and Eve came from then when they
47:50were sent down in chapter 7 verse 24
47:52when they were sent down from the garden
47:53of Eden they were sent down to Mecca so
47:56therefore it's the oldest city in
47:58history right of course there's no one
47:59earlier than Adam and Eve and in order
48:01to have a city you have to have people
48:02so it's the oldest city in the history
48:04of mankind number one
48:09number two Abraham was there according
48:11to chapter 21 he was there rebuilding
48:13the Cabba with Ishmael from verse 51 to
48:1871. So therefore in 1900 B I'm sorry 19
48:22yeah 1900 BC Mecca had to have existed
48:25in the 20th century BC.
48:28Number three Mecca is the center of
48:31trade according to the traditions. Dr.
48:34Montgomery want put together a whole
48:36trade route theory to prove that it had
48:38to be Mecca. And then Dr. Dr. Patricia
48:41Cron came and wrote a book in 1987 that
48:44completely destroyed the trade route
48:45theory. But
48:48Mecca also was not just a little
48:50Hammond. It was a thriving metropolis.
48:52It was the center of pilgrimage for the
48:53entire part of that area, probably the
48:56entire world, but certainly for Arabia.
48:58And according to what the Muslims are
49:00telling us, there were 120,000 of those
49:02Sahaba. And that could be even as much
49:05as 500,000, half a million people in
49:08Mecca. So it was a very big city.
49:11when Muhammad died in 632
49:14about the size of Las Vegas today.
49:17Thus, Muslims are absolutely dependent
49:19on this city for everything they
49:20believe.
49:23Now, my presupposition,
49:26those of us who are doing this research,
49:28if Mecca is the oldest city in history,
49:31that's where Adam and Eve came.
49:32Therefore, it would be with well-known
49:34historical characters like Abraham was
49:36there, Isaac was there. There are 70
49:38prophets that were buried there.
49:41A thriving metropolis and the center of
49:44the 7th century trade. It should be one
49:46of the best known and best documented
49:49cities in the Middle East and certainly
49:51in Arabia. And I would say for all of
49:53history, I don't know of any city that
49:54could be more famous because it's the
49:56oldest. Right?
49:59That's my presupposition.
50:02In 1995 when I introduced this whole
50:05problem with Mecca when I was having my
50:06debate with Dr. Jamal Badari I had no
50:08evidence at that time. All I had was
50:10science. Now we have so much evidence.
50:13We have coins. We have inscriptions. We
50:14have buildings. We have manuscripts. We
50:16have so much material in just the last
50:1830 years. And the that debate has
50:20completely flipped now. So that now not
50:23are do we have any signage. Now the
50:26Muslims are arguing for silence. They
50:27have nothing to support Mecca. There's
50:30nothing at all written about Mecca from
50:33before the seventh century. No, from
50:36before the 8th century.
50:39Can you see how the debate has
50:41completely
50:42changed?
50:44Gone 180 degrees in just the last 30
50:46years. If we prove there was no Mecca,
50:50then I don't care diddly swat which
50:53Muhammad you find. If he's not from
50:56Mecca, he's not the Muhammad of Islam.
51:00Mecca is foundational to Islam's
51:02presupposition.
51:05Similarly, if someone can prove that
51:06there was no Bethlehem or Nazareth or
51:09even Jerusalem for us, then it doesn't
51:11matter what Jesus we can locate in the
51:13first century, he would no longer be the
51:14Jesus of Christianity. And we would have
51:17to give up his birth, his crucifixion,
51:18and his resurrection. Can you see? We're
51:20asking the same question that was asked
51:22of us in the 1800s.
51:25If we can't find Jesus and he didn't die
51:27on the cross,
51:30then we're all damned, folks. Same
51:32token, if Muslims cannot find Muhammad
51:34in Mecca receiving 114 suras called the
51:38book called the Quran before 632 AD,
51:40then everything is completely shut down
51:43for Islam.
51:45This is how dangerous it is for Muslims.
51:48It would be equally dangerous for us if
51:51we were in the same token. We were in
51:52the same boat. Thank God we're not. So I
51:56like to put it like a stool. A stool
51:58with three legs. Islam is dependent on
52:01three things. One book, one man in one
52:03place. The book is the Quran, the man is
52:04Muhammad, and and the place is Mecca. If
52:07we start to attack one of those legs,
52:09like say Mecca, and that leg begins to
52:12collapse.
52:14If it goes down, the other two go down
52:15with it.
52:17Why? Because it doesn't matter what
52:19Muhammad you find. It doesn't matter
52:20what Quran you find. If they're not from
52:21Mecca, they're no longer the Quran or
52:23the Muhammad of Islam. And that's all
52:25we're saying. We're not saying anything
52:27more than that. We're just saying,
52:29Muslims, you've got to prove these three
52:32things. We've done it already as
52:34Christians for the last 200 years.
52:38If we eradicate Mecca, then there is no
52:40Islamic Muhammad nor an Islamic Quran.
52:44So, let's begin by looking at what
52:45Muslims claim for Mecca. This is what
52:47they claim. They say that Mecca is at
52:49the center of Islam, the center of
52:52history.
52:54Now note, none of the verses that you
52:56read ever use the word Mecca itself
53:00except one. That's chapter 48:4.
53:02Otherwise, you don't find Mecca anywhere
53:04else. You have lots of reference to the
53:06masel alam. You have the reference to
53:08the place of the prophet, the city of
53:10the prophet, but it never names it.
53:12Isn't that curious? If it's such an
53:14important city, why is it never named?
53:16That's the first question. So when you
53:18look at the Quran, it says that it's the
53:21first sanctuary pointing to the mankind.
53:23Was that at Baka? Is that Mecca?
53:25Possibly. That this place of the prophet
53:28is the mother of all settlements. That
53:30this place is was where Adam and Eve
53:32were cast down to according to chapter 7
53:3424 that Mecca actually doesn't say
53:36Mecca. It just says cast down to earth.
53:38The traditions tell us that it was
53:39Mecca. That Abraham lived there in 1900
53:42BC. Again, doesn't say Mecca. just says
53:44masid al haram the foren place of bowing
53:47that it was where Muhammad was born
53:49that's what all the traditions say in
53:51and lived there that's for 52 years the
53:53first 52 years of his life he lived in
53:55Mecca and then he moved to Medina for
53:57the last 10 it was the center of the
53:59kibla all the the kibla is the direction
54:02of prayer I didn't say I was going to
54:03teach you any Arabic there's another
54:04Arabic word crept in a little
54:06surreptitiously all the direction of the
54:09prayer of all the mos were facing Mecca
54:11according to all the traditions
54:13So the above implied that people had
54:15lived there from the very beginning. Yet
54:17the only reference to Mecca in the Quran
54:19is in chapter 48:24. Why only once if it
54:22is so important?
54:24When you look at the 9th and 10th
54:27century traditions, then suddenly you
54:30get a much bigger view of Mecca. Now by
54:32the 9th and 10th century, Mecca is well
54:34known. There's lots of references to
54:36Mecca. But it's curious what they say
54:39about Mecca. According to the
54:41traditions, it's in a valley and then
54:44there there's a parallel valley that's
54:45at ibisham al- bukhari. Also, look at
54:48all the different references there that
54:50these two places Safa and Marwa had
54:52shrines to idols at top them before
54:54Islam. That's according to Iben Hisham.
54:56And that has a stream going through it.
54:58It has fields. It has trees, grass,
55:00fruit, clay, lom, grapes, grain,
55:03pomegranates. Look at all these
55:04references in the traditions. It has
55:07olive trees. Now, stop and scratch your
55:08head. Hold on a minute. olive trees way
55:10down in Arabia. The only olive trees
55:12that exist anywhere in the world are up
55:14in the Mediterranean. That's a 600 miles
55:16to the north. So olive trees don't make
55:18sense way down there because there's no
55:21water. You have to have water that there
55:25are mountains overlooking the Cabba
55:27according to their traditions where the
55:29pagans raise livestock.
55:32Yet Mecca is not in the valley. It is
55:34not nearest mountains. the the nearest
55:36mountains are two miles away. It has
55:38none of these vegetations listed above
55:40because it's in a desert. So, it's too
55:43arid and dry to support any of the above
55:46according to the modern soil studies.
55:48Conclusion: In the Quran, Mecca is
55:51referred to as the place of the prophet
55:53or the muscular haram. But in the 11th
55:55to 15th century traditions, the Mecca
55:57way portray suggests the authors live
55:59much further north. 11th to 15th. Is
56:01that a typo?
56:03No, it's not. Hold on. You'll see why.
56:08So, let's look at our conclusions on
56:09Mecca. I'm not going to go through it
56:10because I'm running out of time and I
56:11see I've really got to wrap this up.
56:15Since our historical critique assumes
56:17that without Mecca, both the Muhammad
56:19and the Quran of Islam collapse.
56:21Whenever looking at any 7th century
56:23evidence, if they are not located in
56:25Mecca, they cannot then support Islam's
56:27historical origins. Secondly, because
56:30Islam assumes Mecca is the earliest and
56:33most important city in the history of
56:35mankind, it must be the center of the
56:38world and thus certainly the best known.
56:41The tradition suggests that Mecca had
56:44lush vegetation like fruit, trees,
56:47grass, grains, streams, which make no
56:50sense as Mecca has always been in a
56:52desert with bad and depleted desert
56:54soil.
56:57Conclusion number two. If the Quran
56:59itself only refers to Mecca once in
57:02surah 48 24, doesn't this signify that
57:06either the author did not consider it
57:08that important or it only came into
57:10existence later on as we're we now know
57:13the Quran also doesn't exist in the
57:15seventh century. It was written in the
57:178th and 9th century. At that time, Mecca
57:20did exist suggesting that's when it was
57:22introduced. Even the Arabic, if you look
57:25at the Arabic in the Quran, the Arabic
57:28is not from Mecca or Medina, not from
57:30the central hij. When you look at the
57:32endings of words, they have the tarb,
57:35which is that little circle with two
57:36dots above it. The the t sound. They
57:39also have the alaksura looks like an s,
57:42the e sound. Those are all through the
57:45Quran. Also, the definite article is in
57:48the Quran. all through the Quran. But
57:50those would not exist in Mecca Medina
57:53because the Arabic that was used in
57:55Mecca Medina is Sabek which doesn't have
57:57the Talmuda or the Alfaksura or the
58:01definite article. So where is that
58:03Arabic from? Where is that Arabic that
58:05we see in the Quran? It's right from Nab
58:08uh Nabatian Aramaic. Nabatian Aramaic is
58:11from Petra, Jordan today, 600 miles to
58:15the north. It's the wrong Arabic.
58:19Can you see a problem here, folks? Are
58:20you starting to see the vision? When you
58:22look at Mecca, look, I mean, when you
58:24look at the Quran, look at all the
58:25geographical places that it names.
58:27[clears throat]
58:28And it has about 65 places. But what's
58:31interesting, look at the people that it
58:33keeps referring to. It 23 times it talks
58:36to these people from Ad. If you look at
58:38Ad, it's way up in what is today Jordan.
58:4224 times it talks about these people
58:44from Tammud. Tamud are the Nabotans.
58:46That's also from Petra way up in the
58:48north. U would be uz in the bibl in the
58:50bible. That's the biblical name for uz.
58:53Seven times it talks about that these
58:55prophet having relationship with the
58:57midionites. Well, you know where the
58:58Midianites are. They're way up in the
59:00north. Look and see if you can see. I
59:02don't know if you can see very well, but
59:03look where Mecca is right at the bottom
59:05of the map. And look where those are way
59:06up in the north. 600 to a,000 miles
59:08further north. If the prophet had daily
59:10reaction or interactions with these
59:12people, he would have to go there and
59:14back. That means 7 mi 100 miles up or
59:16600 m up and 600 m back 1,200 miles in
59:20one day. You cannot do that on a camel
59:23helicopter. Yes, but they were didn't
59:25exist in the seventh century that I'm at
59:27least that I'm aware of.
59:30What's more, when you look at Mecca, the
59:337th century Arabs called themselves
59:35different things. And when you go to the
59:37seventh century, and this came up in the
59:38debate last week, when you look at the
59:40seventh century, look at what they call
59:42themselves. Just read what they called
59:44themselves.
59:45They called themselves Ishelites. They
59:48called themselves Hagarines.
59:50Hagar. Ishmael from the line of Hagar.
59:53They call themselves Mre, the place of
59:55Hagar. They call them, the people of
59:58Hagar. And they call themselves
1:00:00Sarasids.
1:00:02Notice, just read what's in the text.
1:00:05Nowhere do they call themselves Muslims.
1:00:08Now today what many of the people are
1:00:10doing is they're putting Muslim on
1:00:12there. Remember I talked to your peace
1:00:13of opposition. If you believe the
1:00:14standard Islamic narrative is true.
1:00:16Anytime you see Sarasan you put Muslim.
1:00:19Anytime you see Hagarin you put Muslim.
1:00:23But that is not textually honest. You
1:00:26can't do that historically. You can't
1:00:28impose what we believe today on a
1:00:30seventh century environment. That's not
1:00:32historically correct. Can you understand
1:00:35that? And yet everybody that's attacking
1:00:38us now has been doing that.
1:00:40Especially the word sarasin.
1:00:43Everybody I talk to, they say, "Well,
1:00:44assassin, we all know Sarasan means
1:00:46Muslim." No, it didn't. In the seventh
1:00:47century, a sarasan was a plunderer
1:00:51from Sinai. So they're plundering all
1:00:54across Jordan and Syria going up into
1:00:56Iraq. And why are they plundering?
1:00:58Because in 622, the Byzantine uh
1:01:01Heraculus came and destroyed the
1:01:03Sassedans and opened up that entire area
1:01:06and threw out the Persians and left a
1:01:08vacuum because he then went back to the
1:01:09west to take care of his western
1:01:11borders. And because the vacuum was
1:01:13there, these plunders just came running
1:01:15streaming up through Arabia up up into
1:01:19so not Arabia sorry through Jordan and
1:01:21Syria and Iraq and they started
1:01:24pillaging and they started massacring
1:01:25the Jews and the Christians there and
1:01:27raping the womens and the people who
1:01:29were there were writing about them and
1:01:31they were naming them as those were not
1:01:35Muslim folks.
1:01:37And that's why you have to read the text
1:01:40as it's written.
1:01:42If they were Muslims, why didn't they
1:01:44write that they were Muslims? Why aren't
1:01:46these people who were being massacred
1:01:48identified them as Muslims? Nowhere do
1:01:50you find that word in any of their
1:01:52texts?
1:01:55What's more, when you look at the
1:01:56traditions, Mecca is where 70 to 300
1:01:58prophets were buried. Yet, with all the
1:02:00buildings being constructed there
1:02:02requiring deep foundation, look at what
1:02:04they're doing to Mecca. Now notice
1:02:05they're now building 62 skyscrapers. One
1:02:09of the tallest buildings, the fourth
1:02:10highest building in the world is now
1:02:12built there in Mecca. Look at all the
1:02:15hotels around it. And there's the Cabba.
1:02:17Look at all the cranes there. They're
1:02:18building up. And what they're doing,
1:02:19they're cementing up Mecca. Why do you
1:02:21think they're cementing up Mecca?
1:02:24Because they know there's no history
1:02:25there.
1:02:27They're trying to hide the evidence.
1:02:30They know what we know. Dr. Patricia
1:02:32Kura was looking for Mecca to write her
1:02:35book. And what she did is she went to
1:02:36all the different civilizations. And she
1:02:38started with the ones in the north. And
1:02:39so she went to the Assyrians. She could
1:02:41read and write Assyrian. She went to the
1:02:43Persians. She went to the Romans. She
1:02:46went to the Babylonians. She went to all
1:02:47these different civilizations way up in
1:02:49the north. And she could read all their
1:02:51documents looking for any reference to
1:02:53Mecca. Not one. None of them. All the
1:02:56way up from the BC up into the second,
1:02:58third, fourth, fifth, sixth, all the way
1:02:59up into the seventh century. couldn't
1:03:01find any of these records. Now, these
1:03:03were all uh BC civilizations. So, she
1:03:06decided, well, let's go to the closer
1:03:08civilizations that were right around
1:03:10Mecca. So, she went to the Nabotans up
1:03:12in the north. No reference to Mecca. She
1:03:14went to the Himites down in the south.
1:03:16No record of Mecca. She went to the
1:03:18Kajites. She went to the She went to the
1:03:20Nubians over on the western coast, the
1:03:22the eastern coast of of of Africa. No
1:03:25reference whatsoever.
1:03:27none
1:03:29until 7:41.
1:03:33The Araba Bizantia, sorry, the Bizante
1:03:35Arabika written in 741, the first
1:03:39reference she could find for Mecca.
1:03:41That's over a hundred years after
1:03:42Muhammadoo.
1:03:46No, nobody. So she said, "Well, maybe
1:03:49it's because the this was such a small
1:03:51place. It was such a small hamlet."
1:03:52Yeah. With 120,000 Sahaba right there.
1:03:55It's a small hamlet, right? the size of
1:03:56Las Vegas today. So let's go then. Let's
1:04:00look at the other places that were up
1:04:01and down the western plateau which were
1:04:03even smaller. So she went to Sana, she
1:04:07went to Najaran, she went to T, she went
1:04:10to Yreb, she went to Kibar, she went to
1:04:12Tabbook, she went to Gaza. She went and
1:04:14looked at all these places and asked
1:04:16whether or not people heard of those
1:04:18places. And she found reference to every
1:04:20one of these hamlets, every one of these
1:04:22oasis all the way back to the 3rd
1:04:25century BC.
1:04:28But not one reference to Mecca. Yet this
1:04:31is the oldest city in the history of
1:04:32mankind. This is where Abraham lived.
1:04:34This is where Adam and Eve went to. This
1:04:36is the center of trade. Did I just get
1:04:38knocked off? There we go.
1:04:48Is it coming? There we go.
1:04:50So then she looked at the trade route
1:04:52because all the Muslims will tell you
1:04:54and all the traditions say that Mecca
1:04:55was the center of trade. So she went
1:04:56back and she looked at Montgomery Watts
1:04:59work where he tried to show that the
1:05:00trade was all going through Mecca. And
1:05:02she went and looked at all his re
1:05:03references and realized that there's no
1:05:05reference at all to any of these cities.
1:05:07And then she says, "Hold on me. Hold on.
1:05:09There's a reason why nothing went
1:05:10through Mecca. Just look at a map again.
1:05:13Look where all the trade was. It was all
1:05:15coming from Indians going to the
1:05:17Mediterranean world." So if you're
1:05:18coming from India over here and you're
1:05:20going way up to the Mediterranean, you
1:05:21come across the Arabian Sea and what do
1:05:23you hit next? The Red Sea.
1:05:26there was a waterway that went right up
1:05:27the western coast on the western coast
1:05:29of Arabia between Africa and Arabia.
1:05:31It's still there today.
1:05:33So she decided to look at all the
1:05:35trading documents and she's the only one
1:05:37that could read them. And she found that
1:05:39there was the maritime trade was all the
1:05:41trade was maritime. It came from it came
1:05:44from over here in India went across the
1:05:46Arabian Sea up into Agilus. Agilus in a
1:05:49reach today and that was the one that
1:05:51controlled the trade in Africa and then
1:05:52went up to five different ports all the
1:05:55way up the Red Sea went up the Gulf of
1:05:57Akaba and then up to Gaza and then into
1:05:59the Mediterranean. Everything was
1:06:00maritime. And why was it on the African
1:06:03coast? Because they had water.
1:06:06Why was it not on the Arabian coast of
1:06:08the Red Sea? Because they had no water.
1:06:11No water. No food. No food. No people.
1:06:12No people. No towns. No towns. No city.
1:06:14No cities. No civilization. No
1:06:15civilization. No history. No trade. How
1:06:17long did it take me to say that? 5
1:06:18seconds. Just shut it down in just 5
1:06:21seconds. You have to have water. You
1:06:25have to have water. None existed there.
1:06:31So neither the land trade route or the
1:06:33Red Sea trade route along supports the
1:06:35early Mecca, proving that none of the
1:06:37trade went via Mecca at all. Confronting
1:06:39the notion that it was the center of
1:06:40trade. There you can see the trade
1:06:42routes on the red lines and the tra the
1:06:45trading lines or the small boats went in
1:06:47the gold lines. They're all hugging the
1:06:49western coast which is the African
1:06:51coast. First reference was not till 741
1:06:54AD. And notice where that is placed.
1:06:56It's way up in southern Turkey,
1:06:59way too far up.
1:07:01When Tommy wrote about Arabia in his
1:07:04geography of Arabia in the second
1:07:06century, he talked of all about the
1:07:07towns and he talked about all the rivers
1:07:09and where the mountains were. But he
1:07:11never made a map because they didn't
1:07:13have map that early.
1:07:15But when you look at his geography
1:07:17Arabia, there's no reference to Mecca in
1:07:20any of his geography. All the maps that
1:07:22has been made subsequent in Europe in
1:07:24the 1600s and the 1700s. Beautiful maps
1:07:28trying to find every place that he
1:07:30talked about. But what's missing on all
1:07:32the maps? Mecca is missing on all the
1:07:34maps. And the reason is very simple.
1:07:37Just look at any topographical map.
1:07:39There's no water. If you don't have
1:07:41water, you don't have civilization. If
1:07:43you don't have civilization, you don't
1:07:44have a history. Can you see? You've got
1:07:45to have water.
1:07:47Now, when Muslims have come back to me
1:07:49and say, "Oh, yeah. What about the Zum
1:07:50well?" The Zum well is only 30 ft across
1:07:52and 50 ft deep. We don't even know when
1:07:55it was created. But how do you how do
1:07:57you have the Zum well today? Because
1:08:00Muslims say, "Well, that's where the
1:08:01well is. That's where the water comes
1:08:02from. And God provides it for all the
1:08:04pilgrims." 2 million people live in
1:08:06Mecca. When there's a pilgrimage,
1:08:07there's 4 million people. So it doubles
1:08:09the population of Mecca. If that is the
1:08:11case, then why is it they can provide
1:08:13water today?
1:08:15They'll tell you why. The reason they
1:08:16can provide water today is because of
1:08:18the desolation plants built by Me
1:08:20Becttel Corporation, United States.
1:08:22Thank you for Kansas City. They provide
1:08:24the water. God has nothing to do with
1:08:26it. There it is. There is one of them.
1:08:28of the 27 that have been built
1:08:31because of the problem with water. Queen
1:08:32Zeda in the 9th century had to build the
1:08:36aqueduct which is still there from Tyif
1:08:37all the way down to Mecca to give water
1:08:39proving that this was a problem always
1:08:41has always been a problem historically
1:08:43for Mecca and then Dan Gibson a good
1:08:46friend of mine decided well let's look
1:08:47at the kiblas let's look at these
1:08:49mosques and so he physically went to a
1:08:51hundred different mosques to look and
1:08:53see where they they were facing to see
1:08:54where the kibla where the kibla wall was
1:08:56facing the direction of prayer 100
1:08:59mosques and he found that all the
1:09:00mosques in the seventh century all the
1:09:02way up until 7:15. That's beginning in
1:09:05the 8th century, every mosque was facing
1:09:08Petra.
1:09:09Not one was facing Mecca.
1:09:12And yet, every mosque today has to face
1:09:14Mecca.
1:09:16Not till the 8th century did they start
1:09:18facing Mecca.
1:09:21Now, if you go to Mecca, you'll probably
1:09:23see why. When you go to Mecca, just
1:09:26notice that everybody circumambulates
1:09:27around this Cabba, this black stone. I
1:09:29mean this uh square building that has a
1:09:32black stone on the eastern corner. They
1:09:35circumambulate going counterclockwise
1:09:37seven times. Why do you think they go
1:09:38seven times counterclockwise?
1:09:41Anybody know who went seven times
1:09:44counterclockwise?
1:09:47Joshua in Jericho. The Jews did that in
1:09:49Jerusalem.
1:09:51Because of Jericho.
1:09:53So you ask a Muslim, why are you
1:09:54circumulating
1:09:56seven times going counterclock? It's
1:09:58because of Jerusalem. That's where the
1:10:00original Cabba was. Cabba just means
1:10:03square. Cube. It's the same word in
1:10:05Hebrew. Cube. Where is the cube in
1:10:08Judaism? The Holy of Holies. The cube.
1:10:11The Cabba. And then what do they do?
1:10:13They run back and forth between two
1:10:16mountains supposedly. Safa and Marwa.
1:10:19Safa and Marwa.
1:10:22Mountains. Go look at them. They're only
1:10:24rocks 20 feet high. boulders. They run
1:10:28seven times back and forth searching for
1:10:30water. Who is searching for water
1:10:32between Saf and Madwa? Hagar searching
1:10:35for water for her son Ishmamail
1:10:39in Mecca.
1:10:41No. Where is the original Safa and the
1:10:44original Marwa? Jerusalem.
1:10:47Mount Mariah where the Dome of the Rock
1:10:49stands today. Where the temple stood
1:10:52in Arabic is Marwa. The Jews go from
1:10:56Mount Mariah down to the Kidrron Valley
1:10:58and come back up to Mount Scopus. The
1:11:00Arabic for Scopus is Safa.
1:11:04Josephus writes it in Arabic for those
1:11:05reason. That's how we know Safa and
1:11:07Madwa came from Jerusalem. They've just
1:11:09taken what was originally in Jerusalem,
1:11:11brought it back to Mecca and made it
1:11:13much smaller. Faximiles.
1:11:16It all starts with Jerusalem.
1:11:19Don't get into that anymore. Conclusion.
1:11:22Certainly someone somewhere at some time
1:11:24should have known about this city. Yet
1:11:25no one anywhere nor at any time has
1:11:28proving that it never existed at the
1:11:30time of Muhammad nor during early Islam.
1:11:32So if Mecca did not exist then what
1:11:35Muhammad the are the Muslims referring
1:11:38to their Muhammad had to be have been
1:11:41born and grew up there until he was 52
1:11:43years age. I'm so glad we don't have to
1:11:47defend Jesus Christ.
1:11:50Thank God Jesus existed and thank God
1:11:53Jerusalem existed and thank God we don't
1:11:55have these problem.
1:11:57Now we're going to end with this. What
1:11:59about the record? Remember I've been
1:12:00telling you all the way along and this
1:12:02is where Muhammad comes in. What about
1:12:04the record of Muhammad? About who he
1:12:08was, what he did and what he said. What
1:12:10are the witnesses for that record?
1:12:14This is new stuff that's just coming in
1:12:15the last two years by one of our
1:12:17scholars in Britain
1:12:19and he's the Dr. Pat Andrews has spent
1:12:22two years working on this material.
1:12:24Here's the problem. When anyone asks
1:12:26Muslims how they can be sure that the
1:12:28story they have of Muhammad is true,
1:12:30they point to numerous books on their
1:12:32bookshelves and claim that they were
1:12:33written by those who knew Muhammad. So
1:12:35they claim a book here and a book here
1:12:37and this is written by Mata. Over here
1:12:38is written by Ibnisham. Over here we
1:12:40have Alwakiri. And they have all these
1:12:42books on the bookshelf and they just
1:12:44make these claims and then they say that
1:12:46these men they they they never tell you
1:12:50the date of those books. They never tell
1:12:52you when the extent manuscripts are of
1:12:54those books. They just claim that
1:12:55they're all early and they all are
1:12:57forensically uh they not not
1:12:59forensically tested because they have
1:13:01not tested any of them. Now to be valid
1:13:03witnesses for Muhammad, we must have
1:13:05these traditional writers original
1:13:07extant manuscripts. We must have the
1:13:09same thing that we had for our
1:13:10manuscripts. We had to pass this test
1:13:12already. And so we've been asking them,
1:13:14"Where are your manuscripts for Iban
1:13:16Sham and Alwiki and Al Bukhari and Sah
1:13:19Muslim and
1:13:20their Tmidi and Maji and Nis and Tabari?
1:13:23Where are they?" You claim them, but you
1:13:25don't have any. Give us any manuscripts.
1:13:27You claim they're from the 9th and 10th
1:13:28century. Show us where their manuscripts
1:13:31are so we know that they actually wrote
1:13:33them. Remember the compilers of the
1:13:35prophet's life and saints all worked
1:13:36under the authority of the Muslim
1:13:38caiffs. So they would had access to
1:13:40durable writing material such as
1:13:42parchments and vellum animal skins.
1:13:45Right? Unlike our early Christian
1:13:47writings which were all written on
1:13:49papyrus, they were not durable because
1:13:50they were written on leaves that
1:13:52disintegrated after about a hundred
1:13:53years. So the Muslim written texts
1:13:56should still be in existence even today
1:13:58a mere 1400 years. And we're not talking
1:14:00about 14. We're talking about 12 and
1:14:021100 years because that's their claim
1:14:05that they're 11 and 1200 years ago.
1:14:07Consequently, there is no excuse not to
1:14:10have the original manuscripts. So, let's
1:14:12find out what we now know from this
1:14:14newest research that's been done in the
1:14:16last two years. looking at the extent
1:14:18manuscripts of the Sah that's Muhammad's
1:14:20biography of the Hadith that's his
1:14:21sayings of the Sahaba's cotices that's
1:14:23his companions and the tabun's cotices
1:14:26that's the second generation as well as
1:14:27the tarik which are history and the taps
1:14:30his commentaries let's go ahead and do
1:14:33that notice the Muslims claim that the
1:14:36Sahaba are the eyewitnesses the
1:14:38companions of the prophet the tabune are
1:14:41those who are the second generation so
1:14:43the Sahaba the Marks the Matthew and
1:14:45John's and the Tabune with the Mark and
1:14:47Luke's. That's what they're claiming
1:14:48that they have for their prophet
1:14:50Muhammad. That's their claim.
1:14:54So they're saying that all of this is
1:14:56from the seventh and 8th century. That
1:14:58is a lie. Take a look. Let's look at the
1:15:02Sahaba first. Mata Ib Mik, that is not
1:15:05from the seventh century. The earliest
1:15:06manuscript appears in the 11th century.
1:15:08That's 400 years later. The sahifa of
1:15:11Haman bin Munabi that is not from the
1:15:13seventh century is from the 12th century
1:15:15500 years later. The Musn of Ibhanbal
1:15:18the 13 is from the 13th century that's
1:15:20600 years later. So is the musnaf of
1:15:22Abdul Razak. So is the Musnah of Alisi
1:15:24and so is the Musnah of Abisha. All from
1:15:27the 13th century that's 600 years after
1:15:30the fact.
1:15:32So when you hear that these are all
1:15:33written by witnesses no they are
1:15:35starting to appear in the 11th century.
1:15:37That's 400 years later. nothing from
1:15:40before that time that we have in our
1:15:41hands today. No extent manuscripts.
1:15:44These documents were all supposedly
1:15:46created in the seventh century. Yet they
1:15:48do not begin to appear until the 9th to
1:15:50the 13th century. Thus from 4 to 600
1:15:53years too late. This suggests that they
1:15:56are all written by others hundreds of
1:15:58years later. Consequently, they are all
1:16:01redacted attributions. Nothing more.
1:16:04>> Are you following me?
1:16:05>> Let's go to the next one. Put it on.
1:16:07Let's go put it on a graph. I'm going to
1:16:08show you visually what I'm talking
1:16:09about. So there's the death of Muhammad.
1:16:11Okay, let's just talk about the Sahaba.
1:16:14Now, according to the Muslim clerics,
1:16:15and this is what they're saying on the
1:16:16internet, and this is what they're
1:16:17hearing all over the all over the world.
1:16:19They say that all of them are writing
1:16:21here. That's the time period. That's
1:16:22where they claim. No, they weren't.
1:16:25That's a lie. They start to appear here
1:16:27in the 11th century and they go into the
1:16:2812th and the 13th century. All right.
1:16:31Now, some of them have come back and
1:16:33they say that that this guy Mata was
1:16:36from there. We actually we can't find
1:16:38anything of the mata from the 9th
1:16:40century. The earliest extent manuscript
1:16:44for the mata is not till the 11th
1:16:47century.
1:16:49So let's get rid of them. Goodbye.
1:16:50Bye-bye. We don't need them anymore.
1:16:52They just don't exist. If they don't
1:16:54exist, why waste time on them? All
1:16:56right. 4 to 600 years later is when the
1:16:58extent manuscripts that we possess. Now
1:17:01let's go then to the next genre. Let's
1:17:02look at the sitta. This is the biography
1:17:04of Muhammad. Now, you've been told that
1:17:06the biography of Muhammad was written by
1:17:07a guy named Ibn Hisham who was who died
1:17:10in 833. Muhammad died in 632. That's 200
1:17:13years. And you've been hearing that over
1:17:15and over and over again. And all my
1:17:17friends, all my Christian friends
1:17:18believe that. But here's the problem.
1:17:22Who really wrote the SA? Who wrote that
1:17:24book? This is the book you all have to
1:17:26read. If you want to read the Sah
1:17:27Muhammad, if you want to read his
1:17:28biography, you have to read that book by
1:17:30Alfred Guillon. The problem is that is
1:17:33not from Alfred Guill. He just
1:17:35translated it. So who actually wrote
1:17:37that book? Here he is. The man who wrote
1:17:40that book is that man there, Hinrich
1:17:43Ferdinand Worenfeld, who between 1858
1:17:47and 1860, that 2-year period, he took
1:17:50manuscripts that he found, six different
1:17:52manuscripts of the SA, compiled them
1:17:54together, threw out what he didn't like,
1:17:56claimed what he liked, put it together
1:17:58into a form so that he could publish it.
1:18:00He published it in 1860. And all of us
1:18:02around the world now know who Muhammad
1:18:04was and what he did. A German scholar
1:18:08160 years ago. How many of you before
1:18:10tonight knew that?
1:18:13Everything we know about what Muhammad
1:18:14did comes from a German, not a Muslim.
1:18:19The man who Muslims are dependent on and
1:18:20who the whole world is on, who their
1:18:23prophet is or what he did is an elderly
1:18:26German linguist who wrote Muhammad's
1:18:27story 160 years ago, thus over 1,000
1:18:30years too late. So where did he get his
1:18:32material from? You ask. Well, let's take
1:18:35a look and see where he got his material
1:18:36on. Now you've been told that everything
1:18:38comes from these two men here, Ibn
1:18:40Hisham and Alwkiri from the 9th century.
1:18:42That's what you've been told. That's
1:18:44what every Muslim has been told. And
1:18:45until tonight, that's the only thing
1:18:47you've ever heard. No, they do not come
1:18:50from there. They come from this
1:18:52gentleman here,
1:18:55Worenfeld.
1:18:58Do you see a problem visually?
1:19:02But where did he get his material from?
1:19:04He got it from six manuscripts. The
1:19:07first one was a the the Fez manuscript
1:19:10that is in Morocco that is from the 11th
1:19:13century. The next one is the Bodlin
1:19:15library in Oxford that is from the 13th
1:19:18century. So no sorry it is in the
1:19:20British library. The Bodlin manuscript
1:19:22is from the 14th century and that is
1:19:25from Oxford. And then another manuscript
1:19:27that he got in Chester Bey in Ireland
1:19:29and that one is from I'm trying to read
1:19:31this. It's so small the 14th century.
1:19:33And then you have the BNF in Bibliotech
1:19:36National there in France and that
1:19:38is from the 15th century. And the last
1:19:41one is the Soaz library manuscript which
1:19:44is there in London and that is from the
1:19:4516th century. But he went to look at all
1:19:48these six manuscripts. He went to the
1:19:49earliest one was from the 11th century
1:19:51the Fez manuscript was so disgusted with
1:19:53it had nothing to do with it. So he
1:19:55threw out 75% and only retained 25%.
1:19:59And then he took almost all of his
1:20:01material from the other five manuscripts
1:20:03which are all in Britain and France and
1:20:05in Ireland.
1:20:08Wrote it up in 1860 and that's the
1:20:10Muhammad we read today.
1:20:13Thank God for Wel. We wouldn't know who
1:20:15Muhammad was had not for him.
1:20:19>> Goodbye. Let's get rid of those. Those
1:20:21guys don't exist anymore. We have
1:20:22nothing from any of them.
1:20:26Every western and Muslim scholar
1:20:27believes that the silicon bile
1:20:29compilation was just 2 to 300 years.
1:20:31You've heard that over and over again,
1:20:32which is bad enough. Won't they be
1:20:33surprised when they find that they are
1:20:35really much later between the 11th and
1:20:3619th centuries. In other words, between
1:20:384 to 1200 years after Muhammad. So,
1:20:41let's go to then to the Hadith, the most
1:20:43important ones, the most prolific ones.
1:20:46Now, Muslims claim that the hadith were
1:20:47compiled between the 9th and 10th
1:20:49century. They claim that all of them
1:20:51were there between the 9th and 10th. No,
1:20:53they were not. We don't have anything
1:20:55from Sahib Bahari or Masahi Muslim. We
1:20:58have nothing from the 9th or the 10th
1:21:00century. Let's go to the earliest. Abu
1:21:02Daw is from the 11th century. That's 400
1:21:04years after Muhammad. An Nasai is from
1:21:06the 12th century. That's 500 years after
1:21:07Muhammad. Ib Maja is the 13th century.
1:21:10That's 600 years. Tmidi is the 14th
1:21:12century. That's 700 years. The same with
1:21:14Sahib Muslim. The Sahib Muslim and Sahib
1:21:16Bukhari, the two most important, they're
1:21:18called Sahi because they are perfect.
1:21:20The two big greatest compilations of
1:21:22what Muhammad said are Sahi Muslim and
1:21:24Sahibi Bkhari and they are from the 14th
1:21:26to 15th century. That is 7 to800 years
1:21:30after Muhammad.
1:21:32This is the first you're hearing that
1:21:33isn't it?
1:21:36Not one of the hadith were compiled in
1:21:38the 9th and 10th century that we know
1:21:39of. Not the ones we're using today.
1:21:41Their final extent manuscripts were not
1:21:43created until the 11th to the 15th
1:21:44century which is 4 to 800 years later.
1:21:47Thus, not one of them ever heard a word
1:21:49Muhammad said. Let's put it on our
1:21:51timeline just to make us. Here's where
1:21:53they say they were writing in the 9th
1:21:55and 10th century. No, they weren't. They
1:21:57start to appear here in the 11th and the
1:22:0012th and the 13th
1:22:05and the 14th and the 15th.
1:22:08This is how late they are. So, bye-bye.
1:22:11We don't need you guys anymore.
1:22:14Now we get to the last genre which is
1:22:19the and the now every Muslim will say
1:22:23that the and the were first written by
1:22:26this guy here Alabi in the 10th century.
1:22:29Folks no they weren't.
1:22:31An addition of alabri which everyone
1:22:33uses today was compiled by Michael Jean
1:22:36de Guz the professor of Arabic at Leiden
1:22:39University Holland which he compiled
1:22:41between 1879 and 1901 and is known as
1:22:44the Leiden edition. So where did he get
1:22:46his material from? Two manuscripts right
1:22:49there in Istanbul that were written in
1:22:52the 13th century
1:22:55yet were not compiled into their present
1:22:57form that everybody's using today until
1:22:59the last century.
1:23:02This is just a little over 100 years
1:23:04old. Written by a Dutchman. No Arab, no
1:23:07Muslim, a Dutchman as an academic
1:23:10exercise.
1:23:11Goodbye. Let's get rid of Alabadi. Now,
1:23:14what we want to do now is I want to put
1:23:16this all on one graph. Are you ready?
1:23:18Let's put it all together. So, we've
1:23:20been told that all the Sahaba were there
1:23:22at this period, right? No. No. They
1:23:26don't come to appear till the 11th. So,
1:23:28there we go. The 11th. and the 12th and
1:23:32the 13th century. So we'll get rid of
1:23:35them. Then we're told that the sitt or
1:23:38the hadith are all from this period 9th
1:23:41and 10th century. They don't appear to
1:23:44the 11th, the 12th, 13th, and the 14th
1:23:48century. So we'll get rid of them.
1:23:50Goodbye. Then we're told that the SA
1:23:53were written by these two men, Hisham
1:23:56and Alwiki. No, they were actually
1:23:58written taken from material from the
1:24:0111th century, the 13th century, the 14th
1:24:05century, and the 14th century, 15th, and
1:24:09the 16th century, but compiled by this
1:24:11German Worenville over there. So,
1:24:13bye-bye to you. And let's talk the last
1:24:15genre, the we were told, have always
1:24:18been told that it comes from Alabari in
1:24:20the 10th century. Pray not, they come
1:24:22from those two manuscripts in Istanbul
1:24:24in the 13th century, but compiled by a
1:24:26Dutch man. So here we go. Everything
1:24:29that Muslims have been telling us has
1:24:30been a lie.
1:24:32So everything the
1:24:35Yaser Khadis and the Shabir Alis are
1:24:38going to talk about on Wednesday is
1:24:41proving to be fraudulent. None of them
1:24:44come from this period that they have
1:24:46been claiming all these centuries.
1:24:49They've all been coming from these
1:24:50centuries. Look at the red line I'm
1:24:52putting up. There's nothing that we have
1:24:55today that we can look at that's to the
1:24:57left of that red line. It all comes to
1:24:59the right of that red line. We've been
1:25:02told that the stories surrounding
1:25:03Muhammad's life were written by those
1:25:05who saw and heard him, thus by
1:25:06eyewitnesses or by others within a few
1:25:08generation. Yet, we see above that
1:25:10everything we know about Muhammad was
1:25:12originally created 4 to 900 years after
1:25:15he presumably lived. yet not can
1:25:17canonized into written text until 1,200
1:25:20to 1270 years later suggesting it's all
1:25:23a fraud.
1:25:26All right, there it is all in one sheet.
1:25:29So hold on, be careful Christians. We
1:25:32have the same problem. We have lots of
1:25:35writings of Jesus that come after the
1:25:37gospel account. We have the Gnostic
1:25:39writings. Look at the 52 found in
1:25:42Nagamati in the library in Egypt in the
1:25:444th century. the Gospel of Thomas, the
1:25:47Gospel of Judas, the Gospel of Barnabas.
1:25:50But why is it you don't kn read the
1:25:52Gospel of of of Thomas or the Gospel of
1:25:54Judas? Go ahead. Why don't you read it?
1:26:00>> They're way way too late. And also, they
1:26:03don't agree with any of the gospel
1:26:04writers, which are way, way too early.
1:26:07You always go with the earliest account.
1:26:10Why? That's what you do whenever there's
1:26:12an accident on the road. The what do the
1:26:14police do? They put a sign up. They put
1:26:15the date and they put when the accidents
1:26:17and then they have a phone number. Call
1:26:18if you're an eyewitness. They want
1:26:20eyewitnesses. They don't want what
1:26:22people have told or what they've heard
1:26:23here. They don't want oral tradition.
1:26:25They want an eyewitness account.
1:26:27We do that today. And that's exactly
1:26:30what we have with Jesus. Everything we
1:26:33know comes from those who were right
1:26:35there with him, who saw what he did and
1:26:37heard what he said. Oh, that's why I
1:26:38love Jesus. Well, that's not the only
1:26:40reason. It's one of the great reasons
1:26:42that I know I can love him.
1:26:44But then these gospel accounts, the
1:26:47gospel of Thomas, the gospel of Judas,
1:26:48the gospel of Barnabas, that's a Muslim
1:26:50favorite because it says that Jesus was
1:26:52a Muslim.
1:26:54Isn't that convenient? Written in 1634,
1:26:58redacted back to Barnabas, the companion
1:27:01of Paul, to give authority to it. So,
1:27:05we've got the SAME PROBLEM, BUT WE DON'T
1:27:07GO TO those gospels because they are so
1:27:09late. We don't go to those gospels. But
1:27:12yet the Muslims do exactly the opposite
1:27:14from us. They go to the latest
1:27:17traditions and those are the
1:27:19authoritative ones. Now
1:27:22I'm going to conclude. We're not
1:27:25suggesting there never was someone named
1:27:28Isham or Alwiki or Aladi. I'm sure there
1:27:30was people named this. I'm sure these
1:27:33men did exist and I'm sure they lived in
1:27:35the 9th and 10th century. Don't get me
1:27:38wrong, okay? Please don't misquote me on
1:27:39this. I've been misqued all over the
1:27:41place last week. Don't you do it, too.
1:27:44I'm pleased. There probably wasn't IA. I
1:27:47don't doubt that. The problem is we have
1:27:50nothing written by them. And all we have
1:27:54is what people thought they said or more
1:27:57likely what they wanted them to say. And
1:27:59so as the Abbosids come into power and
1:28:01then the Abbosids are taken over by the
1:28:03Ottomans, notice that most of those
1:28:05dates when the canonical text is finally
1:28:07written down, the extent manuscript that
1:28:08we have in our hand are all Ottoman.
1:28:12It's what the Ottomans wanted to
1:28:13believe. And so that's why we can't find
1:28:16any of the earlier manuscripts. They
1:28:17destroyed them, took away the evidence,
1:28:20but they still put the name Ibnisham,
1:28:23al-witti, al-Buhi, Sahib Muslim, Ibn
1:28:27Daw. They put the names on it to give
1:28:29authority to them. That's exactly what
1:28:31the Gnostic writers did. The Gospel of
1:28:33Thomas, the Gospel of Judas, the Gospel
1:28:34of Barnabas. They're just following what
1:28:37we do, not we. The Gnostics did. All
1:28:40right? This is normal. If you want
1:28:43authority, you better not put your name.
1:28:44If you're writing in 1634, you put the
1:28:46name of the man who was right with Paul
1:28:48and then you start writing whatever you
1:28:49want, and you make Jesus a Muslim. How
1:28:52convenient.
1:28:54This suggests that the early Muslim
1:28:56compilers the 9th and 10th century wrote
1:28:58down the properly the original nent
1:29:01tradition. These were then changed and
1:29:03accreted and deleted and corrupted by
1:29:05each succeeding empire until they were
1:29:08finally canonized between the 11th to
1:29:10the 16th century during the early
1:29:12Ottoman Empire. All that Muslims can now
1:29:15be certain of is what the later Abbasans
1:29:17and even the early Ottomans believed
1:29:19happened in the seventh and 8th century
1:29:21since everything that had been written
1:29:23earlier had been destroyed and then
1:29:25replaced with completely new stories to
1:29:27fit the new agenda. So if you want to
1:29:30have a little girl who was 9 years old
1:29:34and you want to bet her down, what do
1:29:37you do? You write a story about Muhammad
1:29:39betting down Aisha.
1:29:41And that way you put it in the name of
1:29:44Muhammad, then you can do it yourself.
1:29:45So whatever tradition you want, whatever
1:29:47practice you want, whatever terrible
1:29:49thing you want, and that's why we're
1:29:51fighting all these terrible traditions
1:29:52about Muhammad, they're embarrassing for
1:29:54us as Christians, but the Ottomans loved
1:29:57them. And so they always put Muhammad's
1:29:58name on them. If he did it, I can do it.
1:30:01And that's why it took not just
1:30:04200 years to write these down. It took 4
1:30:07to700 years to keep manipulating,
1:30:09changing, accreting, deleting until
1:30:11finally you've got the canonical text
1:30:13and that's what we're reading today. Now
1:30:15tell me, do you believe the Muhammad of
1:30:18Islam really existed?
1:30:21See, when compared to Christianity,
1:30:23which has manuscript evidence within the
1:30:25first century, Islam is much less
1:30:27historically supported, contrary to what
1:30:29Muslims contend. Yet it should not be
1:30:32considering the fact that they had they
1:30:34had the best material to write on. They
1:30:36had vellum. They had parchment. We
1:30:37didn't. Why is it we can come up with
1:30:40our close to the original? Our copies of
1:30:42copies of copy. They can't even come
1:30:44close. Everything they have is from 4 to
1:30:47800 years later. And I'm so glad we
1:30:50don't have that problem. Let's conclude.
1:30:53My time's up.
1:30:57Mecca proves probably the biggest
1:30:59problem for me Muslims. The standard
1:31:01Islamic narrative refers to a place with
1:31:03much vegetation existed since Adam and
1:31:05Eve and with 300 prophets buried. Yet,
1:31:08it's not referred to until 741, and none
1:31:11of the early maps show Mecca at all.
1:31:14Patricia Cone debunked Watts landbased
1:31:16trade route theory back in 1987. We
1:31:18debunked the Red Sea trade via Arabia,
1:31:21proving it was all via Africa because it
1:31:23had no water.
1:31:26All of the seven, sorry, it had water.
1:31:28All of the seventh century kiblas were
1:31:30facing Petra or Jerusalem up to 706 and
1:31:33not Mecca until 750. None of the
1:31:35surrounding empires ever heard of Mecca.
1:31:37Maybe because it lacked water. And most
1:31:39of the stages of the Hajj were simply
1:31:41borrowed from other places, primarily
1:31:42Jerusalem. And when you look at the
1:31:44sources, as we just saw, it is obvious
1:31:46that everything the Muslims are
1:31:47dependent on for their book, Their Man
1:31:49and Their Place are based on traditions,
1:31:51the standard Islamic narrative, which
1:31:53are 4 to 900 years too late and hundreds
1:31:56of miles too far to the north.
1:31:57conclusion. The onus is now on Muslims
1:32:00to prove to us that Muhammad was born,
1:32:03grew up, and lived in Mecca and Medina
1:32:05in the Jaws between 750, I mean sorry,
1:32:08570 and 632 and received all 114 suras
1:32:12of the Quran before he died and that
1:32:14this Muhammad actually existed. I do not
1:32:16have to prove this any of this. This is
1:32:18the beauty of our position. We don't
1:32:21have to prove this. They have to prove
1:32:23it because I'm absolutely sure that man
1:32:27did not exist.
1:32:29I'm convinced. I hope you are too. Thank
1:32:32you for your time. [applause]
1:32:38[applause]
1:32:44Now I've got to go get a plane.
1:32:47[applause]
1:32:49Thank you so much. I've got to get a
1:32:51plane. because I've got to get on a
1:32:53flight, one of these red eyes, back back
1:32:55to Pennsylvania. And I know there are
1:32:57questions. So, what I think we're going
1:32:59to do is we're going to
1:33:03So, we're going to put a paper here and
1:33:04a pen. If you have questions, write them
1:33:07on this paper because I've got to jump
1:33:08run to get my plane. Write your
1:33:10questions on the paper and then give
1:33:12them go ahead and introduce yourself.
1:33:16>> Nino.
1:33:17>> Okay. Nino or Matt. Neither of you two.
1:33:19Give them to them. they will send them
1:33:20to me and I'll answer answer all your
1:33:22questions, okay? Because I'm sure you do
1:33:24have some questions from tonight. This
1:33:26is a lot of material. I'm sorry. Some of
1:33:27it may be new for some of you, others
1:33:29you've probably heard it before. I've
1:33:31got to get a plane. So, I'd love to have
1:33:32been with you. It's been great to had
1:33:34you this morning and this evening. God
1:33:36bless you.

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