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The Big Picture with Rahul Bhasin | AI, ML & Electric Vehicles | Lohum & Toch.ai — Transcript

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0:01[Music]
0:07in our big picture segment today gives
0:09me great pleasure to bring on board
0:10Rahul Bassin to talk about two themes
0:13he's excited about so we'll talk to
0:15Rahul rul thank you for joining us and
0:18thank you for being part of the big
0:19picture the two themes which you
0:21identified let's discuss one by one
0:24first your views and then we'll get into
0:25a conversation with the company and
0:28managements there the EV space uh why
0:31are you so excited about the EV space at
0:33the current juncture you know the big
0:35picture for Ev is simple yes that's a
0:37trend which is here to stay but some
0:39would argue looking at the valuations of
0:42some of the EV companies in world and
0:44even in India like tataa Motors don't
0:46you think for an investor while the
0:48sector will grow the low hanging fruits
0:50have been
0:53plucked so Nik this always happens
0:57investors inevitably end up paying too
0:59much
1:00growth uh and not calculating risks this
1:03is part of human nature but I think that
1:06let's step back and look a little bit
1:08you know um more closely as to why this
1:11phenomenon takes place and as to what
1:12lies ahead of us uh if you think about
1:16the entire EV
1:18space um why is everybody so excited
1:22because you know the EV cars in vehicles
1:25whether it's two wheelers four-wheelers
1:27trucks they all use energy right and um
1:30is it that you're just displacing the
1:32energy and sort of having the power
1:34plant consume the energy and you're not
1:36consuming it is this just some kind of
1:38fiction actually it's not uh the reality
1:43is that the most efficient internal
1:45combustion engine which exists and works
1:47today uh uses only about 30% of the fuel
1:50or the energy which is consumed in
1:53actual motion 70% is lost in
1:57heat EVS use the most inefficient EV
2:01uses 96 97% of the energy which is
2:05generated in motion and only 2 or 3% is
2:08lost in heat now this is a step change
2:11in efficiency and it's it to my mind is
2:15uh such a big uh momentous change that
2:19it is going to drive the entire industry
2:22in this direction um there is of course
2:24you know various questions of Economics
2:26involved there is the question of um
2:29geopolitics involved in this uh in the
2:32Indian context if you think of e um what
2:35will first you know where would you get
2:37the first adoption it will be in the
2:39two- wheeler space uh why will it be in
2:41the two wheeler space because the
2:42batteries that you need are much you
2:45know smaller weaker you can uh and there
2:48is a high amount of consumption there uh
2:52the price sensitivity of usage is low um
2:56I'm sorry the price sensitivity is in
2:58fact High I'm sorry I'm saying the exact
3:00opposite thing um and the total cost of
3:03ownership already in two wheelers has
3:06shifted to the EV space now the biggest
3:09issue is about charging of the batteries
3:11and you know various people have found
3:13battery swapping Solutions which I think
3:15is where the market is going to go but I
3:17also believe that um you know um
3:21batteries which can be easily taken out
3:22and charged in your home and put back
3:25are also Solutions which are going to
3:27work uh and I think if you look at the
3:28combination of these I think the market
3:30is already here the Big Challenge and I
3:33said you know geopolitics plays a big
3:35role um EVS use lithium batteries uh the
3:39lithiumion batteries and you know the
3:41motors use magnets which use neodium
3:45both lithium processing neodium
3:48processing are totally controlled by
3:50China so suddenly you're changing your
3:52dependency from uh the Gulf States and
3:55you know the pet OPEC um into China and
3:59I think that's that has geopolitical
4:01implications and therefore to my mind
4:03has policy implications so the big
4:06challenge is that how do you get hold of
4:07lithium how do you get a hold of things
4:09like neodium Etc um you know available
4:14to you so that you're not strategically
4:16in a weaker spot but there is also the
4:18issue to my mind of costs associated
4:21with some of these things and the third
4:24thing is um there is the entire issue of
4:28pollution what happens the to the
4:30batteries or the motors which are used
4:33in EV vehicles at the end of their life
4:36uh if you throw them into landfills you
4:39will get lead poisoning nickel Mercury
4:42cadmium a whole bunch of um you know
4:46toxic heavy metals which are going to
4:49pollute the environment so that's not a
4:52viable solution and the world is
4:53suddenly figuring out that they need to
4:55come out with a solution for that whole
4:57space and that brings me another theme
5:00which fits into this the extended
5:03product liability which I think is uh
5:05something which is getting adopted more
5:07and more in Europe uh you can see the
5:09early signs of it in places like America
5:12but I think it is inevitable in a highly
5:14populated country like India so uh I
5:17think eeve adoption will take place but
5:19you will also have concomitant you will
5:22also have U you know the companies
5:26having to worry about what do they do
5:27with the battery at the end of the life
5:29and I think that both of these themes uh
5:32together are going to throw up
5:33opportunity sets which are fairly unique
5:35uh in the Indian
5:37context great point so just to and again
5:41I need to be in Devil's Advocate perhaps
5:43that's part of my job to be in
5:45television
5:46anchor to charge EV you need electricity
5:50and we know that in India electricity
5:53infrastructure is still a pain uh I was
5:57reading a Morgan Stanley report and it's
5:58talking about the US comparison that
6:00nearly half a trillion dollar will be
6:02required to create the EV
6:03infrastructure do you think in India
6:05that is the biggest challenge like the
6:07need the desire uh the experience of e
6:10everything is fine
6:16but I think you know this is a very
6:18similar discussion to what was had when
6:20mobile phones came about right that um
6:24mobile Towers need electricity how will
6:26you solve that problem uh
6:30and you know I remember roughly 20 years
6:32ago this was the biggest theme that
6:33mobile is never going to work in India
6:35but you know today that you know almost
6:37every adult Indian has a mobile phone uh
6:40in their pockets uh I think you will go
6:43through a similar Journey you will go
6:44through ups and downs as far as that is
6:47concerned but we will solve this problem
6:49and look it's less polluting uh the EVS
6:52are less polluting uh you don't have you
6:55know methane you don't have various
6:57kinds of uh tall Etc which are common
7:00pollutants in larger cities which are
7:03poisonous for human beings um as a
7:05consequence of e so I think that we will
7:08go there um but there are lot of supply
7:11chain issues and constraints on the way
7:14and I think that um they will get
7:16tackled I I think eeve is here to stay
7:18it's not not going away in a hurry uh
7:21though personally my own view is that
7:23you know if I were to put myself in the
7:25shows of a policy maker I think in India
7:27what you will end up seeing is a hybrid
7:29model just because I think
7:30geopolitically they wouldn't want to put
7:32themselves in a position where they're
7:34solely dependent on one supply chain uh
7:37so you'll probably have CNG you'll have
7:39some part of the IC engine regime
7:42persisting I also I mean if you put
7:44yourself in the shoes of the automobile
7:46industry they've invested very heavily
7:48in the IC engine to comply with bs6 and
7:52suddenly they find the market shifting
7:53under their feet to the EV space I think
7:56they'll fight to retain um some of that
7:59space and to um at least utilize the
8:03capacity you know the capex which they
8:05have already done so you will see a mix
8:08you will see directionally things moving
8:10towards the EV space um but it uh it
8:15will go there now we can sort of sit
8:18here and contemplate whether the Tesla
8:20valuation makes sense or not and I think
8:23you have to understand rather than um
8:26you know I think I would say that I
8:29would not buy Tesla at these prices I
8:31mean it's not that it's trated in India
8:32but the reality is what is the market
8:35saying the market saying is that these
8:36guys have IP on lot several battery
8:38technologies uh they also have IP in
8:41terms of um using of iot to make their
8:44vehicles better as as they age as
8:47against vehicle which sort of
8:49deteriorates in performance as it ages
8:52and um it's a cleaner technology uh it's
8:54more fuel efficient it has you know
8:56better performance metrics uh it's
8:59noiseless so you've got basically a new
9:03paradigm and the world is making a bet
9:05that the world is U you know investors
9:08are making a bet that we are going to
9:09move to this new paradigm and I I think
9:11that that's true that's that's a correct
9:13bet um what price you pay for it like I
9:16said human emotion tends to get ahead of
9:19itself um and there will be challenges I
9:22think the if you look at the electric
9:25two wheeler space in India um I know of
9:28at least 40 companies who started up
9:29there and it's you know there's nothing
9:31to say that a will win or B will win I
9:33think it's to my mind also if you look
9:36at the structure of the two wheer
9:37industry from largely an oligopolistic
9:40structure it's going to move to much
9:43more per competition kind of structure
9:45so nobody will make that much of money
9:48in that part of the value chain uh but
9:50there are opportunities in the supply
9:52chain which I think would make a
9:54tremendous amount of sense because um
9:57that value chain is far more
9:58concentrated
10:00you've laid the foundation and talked
10:01about the various challenges from supply
10:03chain to also pricing now while you're
10:06convinced that the EV Market is really
10:08opening up from the two- wheeler space
10:10and we are seeing that as well and
10:11primarily B2B like you pointed out the
10:14cost is much more you know compared to
10:17an ice bike of 40,000 rupees you're
10:19looking at e of what 70,000 as a
10:21starting price in most cases do you
10:23think India will also follow a model
10:25we've seen in other countries or maybe
10:27debundling the battery um is there
10:30opportunities maybe in battery swapping
10:33um uh Community battery
10:35sharing so I was talking about the
10:37reusage of batteries uh and I think that
10:40there is uh there's lot of opportunity
10:43in that whole space and there's
10:44opportunity in recycling uh batteries so
10:48that we have a cleaner environment less
10:49toxic environment and I think that um we
10:53have the Good Fortune of having rajat
10:55from loham on this call and I think that
10:59uh maybe we should include him in the
11:00conversation and get his Viewpoint and
11:03perspective on this because the single
11:05biggest challenge to me is what do you
11:07do with the battery at the end of its
11:09life in um in a larger vehicle and how
11:12do you um sort of have the make sure
11:16that there's a product um does not you
11:19know cause societal damage at the end of
11:21its life and how you reuse things so
11:24that you know we end up with the more
11:25sustainable long-term model and I think
11:28uh Raja and loham play right dead and
11:32Center into that space and I think that
11:34know maybe we can ask rajat
11:37about that opportunity set and you know
11:40how much if you leave a lithium battery
11:42and you throw it in a landfill what's it
11:45going to do to
11:46society absolutely entire point of e is
11:50going green it's about
11:52sustainability so let's ask rajit vhma
11:55that we do have him on this call rajit
11:57VMA the CEO of loham good morning so
11:59that's Rahul bassin's question for you
12:02as well what happens to the batteries
12:03once they're done you can't dispose them
12:05at the landfill with a larger
12:07conversation that's going on so there
12:09must be a big opportunity there as
12:11well absolutely good morning everyone
12:13thank you for having me here um so I
12:16think uh R's touched upon this theme uh
12:19in the earlier part of this conversation
12:21uh batteries certainly are the most
12:24expensive component in an electric
12:26vehicle and so we really have to figure
12:27out what can we do with a battery when
12:29it reaches its Center of life in an
12:31electric vehicle uh for multiple reasons
12:34the reason number one of course is the
12:36larger purpose why we are moving to
12:38electric vehicles is to decarbonize
12:40energy and decarbonization can happen uh
12:45significantly if we learn how to reuse
12:47and recycle just to share with you some
12:49numbers if you actually use an electric
12:51vehicle with recycled cells you have
12:54reduced the carbon footprint by
12:56approximately 44% and if you have a
12:59battery pack made with reused cells
13:02you've decreased the carbon footprint by
13:04approximately 81% so if you keep the
13:06larger goal that we all have in mind
13:08which is how do we really reduce the
13:10carbon footprint of all our activities
13:13reuse and recycling are super super
13:15critical needless to say because
13:17batteries are so expensive reuse and
13:19recycling also helps us bring down the
13:21cost of the battery pack across the
13:24ecosystem I mean the same uh cost that
13:26went into making a battery pack is now
13:28getting advertised
13:29across a lot more cycles and uh
13:32fundamentally if you learn how to reuse
13:34and recycle then you're also making a
13:36lot of other use cases viable uh and
13:40viable Visa let's say traditional forms
13:42of energy uh and that is those are sort
13:45of three critical reasons why we at
13:47loham decided to go into reuse and
13:50Recycling and you know again rul had
13:52touched a little bit on this let's not
13:53forget the most important bit out here
13:55which is this Market is going to be Bas
13:58supply chain challenged and access to
14:01raw material is super super critical
14:03most of us know that India does not have
14:05some of these fundamental raw materials
14:07lot of countries in the world don't have
14:08this raw material so how do you break
14:12the hegemony of certain countries which
14:14dominate the raw material and the raw
14:16material refining space and so again
14:18from that perspective that reuse and
14:20recycling uh solution to battery packs
14:23becomes important now if I just touch
14:25upon the environment tee here battery
14:28pads have some really really heavy
14:29metals in them Cobalt nickel magnes they
14:32have some very toxic elements present in
14:34them such as various kinds of fluorides
14:36and if we don't recycle them well these
14:39are going into landfills these are going
14:42into you know Environ the environment in
14:44general and can cause enormous enormous
14:48amounts of grief uh we all know what
14:50fluoride did uh what fluoride emissions
14:53did uh in large parts of the world
14:55before we started putting constraints on
14:57them and uh uh if we just let go of uh
15:01you know waste matter like this and
15:03prior to prior to electric vehicles and
15:06batteries were being used significantly
15:07in consuming electronics and a lot of
15:09this consuming electronic material was
15:10going into landfills and there was a lot
15:12of uh leeching of cobalt nickel fluoride
15:17into the into the local environment so
15:20it's very very important that we recycle
15:22it but more important that we recycle it
15:25correctly a lot of people will try to
15:27get into the recycling space in lithium
15:28and batteries without having the
15:30Necessary Technology and uh what we have
15:34focused on is to uh you know get our
15:37technology right first we developed a
15:39state-of-the-art technology wherein we
15:41uh of course perfected the art of
15:42extracting all the material uh from
15:45lithium batteries but also perfected the
15:47art of ensuring that we have no solid
15:49liquid or gaseous emissions into the
15:51environment and now we are in a journey
15:54of expanding our business and uh
15:57recycling more and more uh lithium
16:01batteries can you just expand on the
16:04entire opportunity set of reusing the
16:06batteries before you reach the stage of
16:08recycling because again that you know is
16:11so friendly to the environment it also
16:13makes economic sense uh it you know and
16:16it toally lowers the cost of the entire
16:19system because if a battery has life at
16:21the you know uh the battery life is not
16:24zero and you've reached the point when
16:26you can't use it anymore suddenly the
16:28total cost of ownership of whether it's
16:30a two- wheeler or any electric vehicle
16:32comes down significantly and makes the
16:34whole system economically competitive
16:36and viable even today so will you just
16:39expand on the ReUse case absolutely so
16:42what what does happen for those of you
16:44who are not very familiar with the
16:46technology of lithium battery packs a
16:49battery pack typically uh will be
16:52discarded from its first application
16:54after it reaches Approximately 80% of
16:57its original capacity so if a battery
16:59pack is degraded by about 20% uh the
17:03battery pack is considered uh not very
17:05relevant for that original application
17:07which in this case will be an electric
17:09vehicle application so the pack comes
17:11out and then you try to figure out what
17:13you do because there's still a lot of
17:15useful capacity left in that pack so
17:17what you do with that and there are
17:18multiple different things we can do with
17:20it particularly in a nation like India
17:22uh we can put them into low power
17:24Mobility applications U you know we've
17:27got a lot of different low power
17:28Mobility applications in the form of
17:30three-wheelers and two wheelers but we
17:31can also put them in use in stationary
17:34storage and the advantage as rul was
17:37mentioning is that you know my original
17:39battery pack which let's say was costing
17:41me somewhere between $150 to $200 a
17:43kilowatt hour now suddenly will cost me
17:46let's say somewhere in the range of $80
17:48to100 a kilowatt hour so I've suddenly
17:50made that battery pack very very viable
17:52in the next application uh and have made
17:55it competitive uh with the uh
17:58traditional sources of energy how large
18:00is this opportunity I mean uh if you
18:02look at it globally uh pretty much
18:05everyone knows that the battery packs
18:08after coming out of electric vehicles
18:10will need to be put into a reuse
18:12application uh you know uh the oems
18:15expect it the customers expect it the
18:18dealers expect it because that's how
18:20they will realize the most money
18:22realization of dollars in reuse versus
18:25recycling is almost 5 to 7x so needless
18:28to say the Market will tilt towards
18:30reusing and the critical thing to figure
18:32out in reusing is how do we reuse what
18:35application do we reuse it in and uh you
18:38know ultimately how do we provision a
18:40warranty on that application how do you
18:42determine what the remaining useful life
18:44is but purely from an opportunity
18:47perspective uh you know if there is a
18:51you know a forecasted battery pack
18:53Market of $300 billion the first
18:56derivative of that market really is
18:58reuse which will be uh approximately 50
19:02to 70% of the primary market and then
19:05the second derivative will be recycling
19:07R you know just to take that point
19:09forward if indeed this is such a
19:11lucrative industry I'm guessing there
19:13will be increased competition as well
19:15and there will come a point when uh you
19:19know margins and a beta levels are going
19:21to get challenging with too many players
19:23in the space do you see that happening
19:26um given the prospects of the industry
19:28which you just
19:30highlighted uh so of course uh in any
19:34industry if you know if you're not
19:36differentiated the market will become
19:39very competitive margins will erod but
19:41this is a difficult problem and you know
19:43at loham we fundamentally are a deep
19:45technology company the core of all our
19:48activities is technology technology and
19:50Technology uh the ReUse problem is not
19:52an easy problem seemingly it me uh you
19:55you may feel like okay one can take a
19:57battery back and put into another
19:59application but there are lots and lots
20:02of uh there's a lot of science involved
20:04behind repurposing that and that science
20:06really resides in data where Lohan has
20:09gained significant leadership is the
20:11fact that we've been collecting and
20:13analyzing this data for the last four
20:15years uh and we've actually put it out
20:17into many different applications uh both
20:19on the stationary and the mobility side
20:22and the amount of data that we have
20:24clocked so far is probably the highest
20:27uh not just Within IND but globally uh
20:30in terms of what to do when a battery
20:32pack comes back from its first life and
20:35we needless to say we continue building
20:36on the data we continue uh evaluating
20:40first life performance Second Life
20:42performance and that makes our ability
20:44to provision warranty uh the most
20:47efficient in the
20:50market uh we were using the telom
20:54example so let's take that example and
20:57the example was that the Telecom Market
21:00in a sense is still ruled by the
21:02incumbents which is that bharti is still
21:05the dominant one there are lot of other
21:07players which came the market became a
21:09large market and today it's reduced to
21:11almost two players I would say two and a
21:14half players if I say three then others
21:16would remind me that vapon idea is not
21:18in full bloom how do you see this entire
21:21battery industry evolving there would be
21:24an innovator there would be an disruptor
21:26and there would be an Challenger
21:30um sure enough uh so I think U you know
21:33again remember the battery industry
21:34technically in India is a very old
21:36industry we've had lead acid batteries
21:38uh around for a long time and lead acid
21:41batteries have play their role both in
21:43mobility and stationary storage for a
21:45long time and uh that market became
21:49somewhat oligopolistic uh particularly
21:52in India now in the lithium battery
21:54Market again where we see we see a lot
21:58of competition in the first life
22:00batteries which really is you know the
22:02original battery packs that get made uh
22:05I think that market will probably uh
22:07again see a lot of competition a lot of
22:09players will compete that is a primary
22:12market and that is where everyone is
22:13focusing their activities at the moment
22:16but like I said we at Lama way clear we
22:18expect uh we are playing out the
22:20derivative markets the second life and
22:22the recycling Market which are both very
22:25very technology uh uh uh you know
22:29focused a lot of data a lot of chemistry
22:32lot of chemical engineering goes into
22:34the activities that we play out and I
22:37don't expect this Market uh to become
22:41super competitive at least in times to
22:43come the original the primary battery
22:45Market as we say it is more of an
22:47assembly market and there in my in our
22:49opinion the winner will be the person
22:51who has access to raw material that is
22:53super super critical now in in India no
22:56one has access to raw material and I do
22:58believe we at loham will play a very
23:00significant role because we'll be
23:01provisioning that raw material to the
23:03primary market so the government has
23:05come out with a B scheme for cell
23:07manufacturing uh but you know you can
23:09only be as good a cell manufacturer as
23:12uh your access to the raw material that
23:15goes into cell manufacturing today China
23:17dominates its supply chain significantly
23:20and India if India wants to be
23:22competitive India needs to figure out
23:24how to get its raw material and uh you
23:27know when you talk about uh
23:28incumbents innovators disruptors
23:31Challengers I think the real disruption
23:33in this market is
23:35can
23:40right right all right rajad really
23:42appreciate your time thank you for
23:43joining us it's an evolving space for us
23:45but the way you know rul and you
23:47brilliantly broken the whole battery
23:49Market the nuances for us it's quite
23:51extraordinary R bass let's shift gears
23:54and talk about the other big theme which
23:56you're talking about and that is AI now
23:58this AI R when we say is like
24:03saying we it's like saying that today we
24:05need food and water because everything
24:08we today in a sense are associating with
24:12whether it is travel whether it is
24:16surfing whether it is uh you know a
24:18day-to-day activity it is associated
24:21with artificial intelligence it reminds
24:23me of the movie Matrix which I saw a
24:25couple of years ago artificial
24:26intelligence
24:29yeah I think uh the impact on our lives
24:32of artificial intelligence today is far
24:35more than any one of us realize I mean
24:38the bottom line is that uh there is so
24:42much analytics going on in the
24:43background and this analytics is getting
24:45better and better uh whether it's in you
24:48know us accessing the credit markets in
24:50some way uh or whether it's even our
24:53travel or our consumption habits um or
24:57you know at uh lot of things on the
25:01medical and the health side with
25:04different variables personalization of
25:06these kinds of things um and um you know
25:11you know we have the Good Fortune of
25:12having vayak with us from touch um the
25:16entire space in terms of how do you um
25:19look at even videos and live live
25:21streaming images and have artificial
25:24intelligence applied to um you know very
25:27relevant and um use cases there um I
25:30think one of the big challenges and
25:31issues has been and if you look
25:33historically there was search available
25:35and there was ability to you know in in
25:38terms of data in terms of text uh and
25:40Google mastered this space you know
25:42almost two decades ago they they found
25:45ways of basically adopting a library
25:47management system into a ability to
25:50search for data and specific kinds of
25:55information from around the world uh but
25:58now there's if you look at you know
26:00people like YouTube Etc and you look at
26:02how much of video content that is now in
26:05public domain you look at how much of
26:08new uh content is made for entertainment
26:11for Education uh for sport uh almost on
26:15a continuous basis or even for security
26:18you will find that there is tremendous
26:20amount of image and video content being
26:23created but there is now also a lot of
26:26scope of being able to identify
26:29sentiment emotion um
26:32intention aggression all of these kinds
26:35of things through videos and um you able
26:38to identify context when someone should
26:40be in a particular place shouldn't be in
26:42a particular place you're able to
26:44identify you know highlights and
26:46sporting events all of these kinds of
26:49things are now possible using artificial
26:51intelligence but inevitably to be able
26:54to use it and to you know commercialize
26:57it you need um you you need
27:01entrepreneurs with that kind of
27:03foresight and energy and I'm glad that
27:06we have V with us um from touch because
27:10touch has developed an ability to uh
27:13learn and you know they have the AI
27:16algorithm which learn about images and
27:19um and evolving images not just static
27:22images and I think that the uh the um
27:26and they managed to come up with
27:29multiple applications and use cases for
27:32that now if I were to step back a little
27:34bit again and you know before we bring
27:37vayak into the conversation um
27:40artificial intelligence is impacting
27:43everything in our lives at a very very
27:45fundamental level and I think that if we
27:48don't recognize it I think that you know
27:50even the asset management industry which
27:52I belong to um is going to get you know
27:56thoroughly um and a lot of white colar
28:00jobs are going to be impacted very
28:02severely with artificial intelligence
28:04and I think that people um o to
28:06themselves to learn about artificial
28:07intelligence and the consequences one as
28:10to what they can do how they can do
28:11their jobs better by using it uh but
28:14also at a more fundamental level um how
28:17to make sure that they stay relevant in
28:18the new world because if they don't
28:20learn it and they don't learn the
28:22consequences of it um and they don't you
28:25know uh I I think um it's going to be
28:28expensive for them um as far as the
28:30investing world is concerned the
28:32competitive Dynamic of so many
28:34Industries is going to evolve and change
28:36and the pace of disruption today is so
28:38high and it's being accelerated by AI um
28:42at several levels so again it's
28:44something which any investor if they
28:47haven't done it yet needs to go and do a
28:49course on AI and learn about and learn
28:52about where and how it can be applied
29:01right in fact like Mr basine said we've
29:03got vak Shasta the co-founder and CEO of
29:06touch EI with us here at the big picture
29:08on the market good morning unak you
29:11heard rahul's question so over to
29:14you good morning guys um I'll quickly
29:16take a minute here to just explain the
29:18audience here what we exactly do uh
29:20we're a company that's driven by
29:23identifying uh emotions attributes
29:26activities in a content uh and create
29:29key moments and highlights the reason
29:31why we do this using so much of data
29:33points today is the way content
29:35consumption has changed over the last I
29:37would say two years and the amount of
29:39content that's been created in the last
29:40two years has been equal to the content
29:42that's been created in the last 10 years
29:44so because of so much amount of content
29:45out there people are actually moving
29:48over to watching shorter form of content
29:50the reason why short form video
29:52platforms are growing aggressively is
29:54because there's a need for consuming
29:56content in a short period of time that's
29:59where we really come in we have realized
30:01that a lot of companies a lot of
30:03broadcasters a lot of publication houses
30:05Sports industry is getting severely
30:07impacted if they are not fast enough in
30:09producing highlights and key moments and
30:11pushing it out for the users to watch it
30:14everyone with a smartphone today can
30:15create a key M and instantly publish it
30:17on social media but as a broadcaster of
30:20spending millions and billions of
30:21dollars in acquiring rights you need to
30:23be faster enough to kind of get these
30:25out to your audience to monetize it in
30:27different ways to engage your audience
30:28to drive your subscription and when
30:30you're doing these activities which are
30:32severely impacting your top lines you
30:34need to have tools that can also solve
30:36the problem of time here mainly and also
30:40eliminate a certain level of efficiency
30:42problem that get created when you do it
30:43manually that's where we step in we use
30:46artificial intelligence to drive
30:48understanding and in insightful insights
30:50to kind of create key moments and
30:52highlights from Live Events so if you
30:54guys have been watching Cricket you guys
30:56have been watching football you guys
30:58have been watching other live sporting
30:59events you probably interacted with our
31:01technology at the back end already
31:03because we're the one that drives
31:04creation of key Ms and highlights across
31:07various sporting events not today only
31:08in India but globally what we have also
31:11done while doing this is we have kind of
31:12started defining use cases not only in
31:15the sports industry but also in the
31:17media and entertainment industry news
31:18also being one of them a lot of news
31:21bites that we kind of you know see these
31:23days a short form content that people
31:25really just want to scroll through and
31:27consume uh usually what happens is in
31:30our daily lives in the busy time that we
31:32kind of have these days people want to
31:34kind of consume the knowledge but at the
31:36same time do it at the shorter form
31:38that's where we really come in we help
31:40create bite-size content instantly using
31:44all the actionable items that we can we
31:46run OCR we run Vision analysis we run uh
31:49a lot of CER tracking you we run facial
31:52recognition uh to understand what
31:54important aspects are there in the
31:56content and instantly publish it for the
31:58platforms to show it to the users so
32:00that they can consume this content
32:02shortly so that's that's in short what
32:04we do uh like Rahul added very uh nicely
32:08that AI here today in the market has
32:11been disrupting a lot of Industries
32:13we've been hearing that AI is entered
32:15Healthcare we've heard that AI is
32:17entered media and entertainment uh
32:19probably it's going to be there in the
32:21asset management it's already there in
32:22the asset management uh what AI really
32:25does is it solves a problem of you know
32:28efficiency mainly and when you're
32:30looking at AI as a solution you're
32:32looking at kind of getting work done
32:35smartly it's not a matter of fact that
32:37you know it's going to eat into uh you
32:40know jobs it's mainly that it will get
32:42your job done easy uh in that matter of
32:45fact if companies don't adopt to the
32:48newer age Technologies they're probably
32:50going to be left behind that's why you
32:52see a lot of the uh companies today
32:54coming up with their corporate
32:55Innovation programs which drives is kind
32:58of you know adoption of new age
32:59Technologies and that's really what AI
33:02is all about just kind of you know
33:03improving the way technology is used
33:06today uh getting job done probably at a
33:09fraction of a cost or even faster than
33:12what it was getting done in a legacy
33:13methodology that's exactly where it
33:15really fits in
33:18today I think just very quickly um you
33:22know as far as AI is concerned I think
33:24we're now getting insights we're getting
33:26interconnected uh between different
33:29variables across time zones and are just
33:32the knowledge base of human society is
33:34accelerating very quickly as a
33:36consquence of a and um like I said it
33:39has consequences not just on the
33:41economic sphere but the social sphere
33:43the human sphere um and you know I think
33:47overall uh every aspect of our Liv is
33:49going to be impacted by it but I want to
33:51quickly weave in one more theme here and
33:53I think you know um which is the fact
33:56that today India is a very different
33:59India I mean I've been working a fairly
34:01long time uh but today you see um an
34:05entrepreneurial energy which I have not
34:07encountered in my career so far and
34:10you'll find young entrepreneurs and we
34:12have two of them where we have the Good
34:15Fortune of being the lead investors in
34:17both of these companies but it to my
34:20mind it also is a Sy of the times where
34:24um the entrepreneurs of today um in
34:26India are not necessarily simply looking
34:29at the Indian Marketplace uh but their
34:32goals intentions purpose is to dominates
34:36the entire Global Marketplace in the
34:38spaces which they um try and you know
34:41address and the kind of problems which
34:43they try to address uh so maybe rajit
34:45you can give us some idea of the um cost
34:48infrastructure of your company on the
34:50competitive Advantage you have on a
34:52global scale and maybe V you can do the
34:55same uh just so that we have a context
34:58of um um how we intend to compete
35:02globally and be world leaders in these
35:05spes rather than just simply be Indian
35:14players I think maybe we lost V would
35:17you just share with
35:20us absolutely opportun
35:23abely absolutely uh what we have really
35:27focused on right uh while we're building
35:30this technology of you know uh as in
35:33simple terms that we call it a editing
35:35tool a live Editing Tool uh we also
35:37started looking at the global markets uh
35:39and the reason why we started looking at
35:41the global markets is because we truly
35:43believe that we can build great
35:45companies out of India uh and that's why
35:48we have started focusing on the global
35:49market building cost efficient models uh
35:53having teams uh built out of India gave
35:56us a competitive advant AG because we
35:58were able to kind of do things faster uh
36:01we were able to kind of be at the I
36:03would say at the backyard uh and kind of
36:06look at the global markets look at how
36:09different geographies are pricing a
36:11technology like this uh and at the same
36:14time maintain profitability when you're
36:16trying to expand a lot of times uh you
36:19know uh companies tend to kind of overdo
36:22things which end up kind of resulting uh
36:25in excess cash burning situations or
36:27results in kind of you know uh going a
36:30little aggressive when you're expanding
36:31to foreign markets without realizing
36:33we've always kind of kept unit economics
36:35at the heart of the company right we
36:37have done everything uh very efficiently
36:40in terms of uh understanding what each
36:43market really means to us when we are
36:45expanding and when we saying we're going
36:46to take an editing tool that really
36:48means that you know we're going up
36:49against some really large players in the
36:51industry uh you know uh you know the
36:53companies like Adobe or Final Cut pros
36:55of the world uh that have been Legacy
36:58companies now uh when you say that we're
37:00going to become an editing tool and now
37:02our phase two is about launching a
37:04consumer first product which is going to
37:06allow anyone and everyone to edit
37:08content on cloud uh we wanted to make
37:11sure that uh our profitability our cost
37:14centers are always in check uh though
37:16obviously we have been aggressive in the
37:19last 12 months and expanding
37:20specifically you know in the Southeast
37:22Asian market the European market the US
37:24market which is a key Focus for us we
37:26have also kind of taking the key
37:28advantage that uh you know we've built
37:31great team out of India we have been
37:33able to kind of scale the product to a
37:34certain stage uh and that has given us a
37:37competitive advantage to kind of look at
37:40different markets look at the pricing
37:42look at understanding how things are
37:44changing on a daily basis and experiment
37:47you know we keep experimenting a lot in
37:49terms of how we're innovating the
37:51product and kind of you know keeping it
37:52ready or probably in competition with
37:55the foreign players that we go up
37:56against
37:58uh but at the heart of everything I I
38:00think you what's really happened in the
38:02last 12 months uh and we've been
38:04fortunate enough and I would say blessed
38:06enough to have some great Partners like
38:08Mr Rahul at bearings that have supported
38:11us throughout the journey uh that has
38:13kind of given us a different perspective
38:15uh you know has given us a lot of I
38:18would say um you know insights in terms
38:20of expanding into Global markets uh at
38:23the same time you know ensuring that our
38:25cost centers have always stayed healthy
38:28uh we have kind of made every decision
38:30basis on what will be a competitive
38:32Advantage what will be efficient for us
38:34in the global markets uh and uh the
38:37entrepreneurship side of uh India has
38:41kind of been visible to the world in the
38:43last 12 months everyone has been seeing
38:45how uh globally Indians have been uh you
38:48know expanding their Footprints and how
38:51uh overall ecosystem the startup
38:52ecosystem has been flourishing over the
38:54last uh 12 months very specifically
39:01right right vanik so great having you on
39:05the show and giving us all that Insight
39:07um on how media the face is changing and
39:10we couldn't agree more um and Rahul
39:13basine great to get in all that
39:15perspective from you as well on newer
39:16Avenues of investing
39:21[Music]

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