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The Atrocities Of The Hyde School With CC — Transcript

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0:00Oh,
0:03this we
0:07make these diamonds go away. Make these
0:12diamonds go away if I believed in pray.
0:18I would pray my heart away. Went through
0:23so much drama.
0:26Just trying to help my pain. This last
0:31one it told me had me feel like I'm
0:35going insane. I just want to be okay.
0:41But this world is evil.
0:46Hey everybody, welcome to Straight Out
0:47of BS podcast. Thank you guys so much
0:48for your continued support. It really
0:50means the world. Uh, please continue to
0:52like and share and interact with the
0:54video. It really helps out the algorithm
0:56and pushes it out to more people, which
0:58is really important, especially on a
0:59topic like this where um YouTube and
1:02Google and other companies uh do not
1:05want this kind of information out there.
1:07Not saying that they're involved, but
1:08there's people that just like uh this
1:11this material just doesn't get out there
1:13to that many people. I'll just say that.
1:15Um, so thank you guys for your continued
1:17support. I want to thank my Patreon
1:18members, anybody that's donated to the
1:20podcast. It really means a lot. It's not
1:21why I do this, but when everybody throws
1:24when people throw me bones sometimes, it
1:25really helps out. So, thank you for
1:27that. Links are in the description for
1:28all that stuff. Um, if anybody's
1:31interested and, uh, I want to do a
1:32moment of silence for the person still
1:34struggling with intrusive thoughts or
1:35addiction or anything like that. So, on
1:37the count of three, I'm going to do a
1:38moment of silence. One, two, three.
1:44Okay, thank you for that. And without
1:46further ado, I want to go ahead and
1:47introduce my guest for the day. and also
1:49just another survivor who's here
1:50supporting her um emotionally. Uh go
1:53ahead and introduce yourself and where
1:54you went and what years.
1:57>> Hey everyone. Um my name is Kate and I
2:00went to the Hyde School in Bath Maine in
2:03the late 90s.
2:06>> Okay. And walk us Oh, go ahead.
2:09>> I'm Rachel. I went to the Woodstock
2:11campus from '05 to08.
2:14>> Okay. And also I just have to preface
2:16like Rachel has done a wonderful podcast
2:19on here. She has been incredible and
2:21talked about wilderness and her
2:23experience and is so much better able to
2:27articulate everything um than I am. And
2:30this is like literally the first time
2:32I've had a podcast or like like done a
2:34podcast. So yeah, just that.
2:38>> Okay. Awesome. I'm glad she was able to
2:40be here to support you. um go ahead and
2:43walk through uh what led up to you being
2:45sent away to the school.
2:48>> Um okay, there's so many reasons just
2:51like a whole conglomeration of things
2:54came together um that didn't really work
2:57out. Um that's so difficult to pick, but
3:01like at the end of the day, it was
3:03because I was put on an IEP plan at a
3:08public high school that I went to. Um,
3:12and then that's the reason I ended up at
3:14that public school is like a whole
3:16different story, but I was a musician. I
3:19am a musician, but not practicing right
3:21now. And I have ADHD and I'm creative
3:27and like fun and weird and
3:31just really didn't fit in at this public
3:34school that I went to for, you know,
3:36less than a year. So, they didn't really
3:38know what to do with me. And despite my
3:42IQ being very high, not to be obnoxious,
3:45but I'm just saying, like they put me in
3:47special ed. And like that didn't work
3:50either cuz like I didn't want to go to
3:52school. Um eventually just moving
3:55forward I was sexually assaulted
3:58by um a group of boys at a party and
4:05then I like fully refused to go to
4:07school cuz it's like how humiliating is
4:09that? Um and like traumatic or whatever
4:13and they were like all right how do we
4:15get this person this kid like out of our
4:18public school system? She is clearly
4:20like not doing well here. She's causing
4:23[ __ ] in town despite me living here like
4:26for my parents living here for like 50
4:29years, like 40 years. Um, but then
4:35that that goes into like in terms of the
4:37hide school, like where they choose to
4:41send kids like me that have IEPs,
4:45um, which stands for what?
4:48>> Rachel, what
4:50>> educational plan? Yeah,
4:51>> thank you. Exactly. So,
4:55>> um, they had I don't know how to
4:58articulate this or like say this at all
5:00because it's not something that I like
5:02fully can comprehend, but I do know that
5:05two of the biggest hide financers
5:09um, and you know, people that donated
5:11back in the day when Joe Gald was alive
5:15from my town. And so, isn't it
5:19convenient for them to, you know,
5:21recommend hide or whatever? So,
5:25that's what happened ahead of time. And
5:27I had just been, you know,
5:31I digress. You go ask me a question,
5:34please.
5:36>> You're good.
5:36>> Okay. Uh, walk us through like how you
5:39got there. Like, were you transported?
5:40Did your parents trick you into going
5:42there? Like, how did you get there?
5:44>> So, I was definitely tricked. And what's
5:46crazy is that the amount of brainwashing
5:50uh our school did in I mean in my
5:52interpretation my experience is when I
5:55first realized like when I had that
5:58moment when I was like holy [ __ ] the
6:02reason I have CPTTSD
6:04is because of this TTI experience. Like
6:08all right I have to trail off for a
6:10second. Um, anyway, I questioned that. I
6:14I didn't know. I had to like really try
6:17to reach inside myself and fill in holes
6:20and be like, did I actually get taken in
6:24the middle of the night like all these
6:25other people? Um, you know, I have like
6:27very bad dreams about that and like so
6:30many similar things to all of you guys
6:34that are talking about, but I did not
6:36end up getting transported. Um, I did
6:39end up getting transported in
6:42um, my family's vehicle with my dad and
6:46um, I was tricked. Basically, they said,
6:49you know, this is just a summer program
6:51and you're if you don't like it when you
6:54come home, like no big deal. We'll, you
6:56know, we'll go from there. And, um, I
6:59mean, it was just like blatant this how
7:02they train parents to do that. Um, back
7:06then we did nap. Uh, and I I joke with
7:09Rachel because I'm like, "Oh my god,
7:11you're so much younger than me." She's
7:13like, "I grew up with the internet." And
7:15I'm like, "You're the cutest thing
7:17ever." Um, but we we I mean, we had like
7:20AOL, but we couldn't go online and look,
7:23you know, for reviews or like all of the
7:25rest of you being like, "This is
7:27torture."
7:27>> Messenger. We had Messenger. We had AOL
7:30Messenger.
7:31>> Yes.
7:31>> And that was pretty much it. Like the
7:33hand was still being invented. I think
7:35that the first time that I actually like
7:38noticed I mean looking back now and my
7:40god if I had been paying attention then
7:41I would be in such better shape but I I
7:44remember looking on like forets and
7:46stuff and some of the first messages
7:48that were like um hide as hell like hell
7:51you didn't expect like have your
7:54delinquent educated was in 2005
7:58>> the message boards y
7:59>> that wasely
8:01I was literally like tw like so many
8:04years too late. But my point is, where
8:07was I? Help me get back to where I was
8:09going.
8:09>> Like, so you couldn't have known like,
8:11>> right? I couldn't have. Exactly. I
8:12couldn't have known. So I was like, "All
8:14right, well, every year of my life
8:16during the summer, like I've always
8:18done, you know, music camp or like
8:20lacrosse camp or like I don't know,
8:22whatever like waspy like just peppy like
8:27whatever thing."
8:28>> Um,
8:31>> sorry, I'm like thinking about all the
8:33camps. and like dance camp like like all
8:35these just things that like parents do
8:37or whatever. Um
8:41>> yeah, I used to go to a lot of camps,
8:42too, like summer camps and stuff like
8:44that,
8:45>> right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I was like, "All
8:47right, well, what's going to be
8:48different about this? It's a summer
8:50program. It's literally called Hide
8:52Summer Challenge."
8:54>> And oh my gosh. So I something in me
8:59knew that I didn't want to go and I
9:02still can't place that correctly but my
9:04only
9:06hunch and guess is that that other
9:09people because they had been sent like
9:12for you know similar reasons from my
9:14town that must have like trickled down
9:17somehow even though you know there's no
9:20communication or whatever. Um
9:22>> your body your body knew that something
9:24was wrong but you didn't know.
9:26>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And exactly.
9:29>> So,
9:30>> yeah,
9:31>> that that's that. And then I mean the
9:33next thing to talk about would be
9:35>> Well, you tell me actually.
9:37>> So, so you were driving there like did
9:39they
9:40um what happened when you first got
9:42there?
9:43>> Um
9:45>> or do you remember?
9:46>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm going
9:50to probably like butcher this part. So,
9:53the last thing I remember is being in
9:55the bedroom that I was just in when I
9:58like butchered the first part of this
10:00podcast.
10:01Um, and I remember like sitting with my
10:05back to the door
10:07>> and knowing that I was like going to
10:10leave like like I had no options. Like
10:13my dad was going to [ __ ] take me
10:16any moment. And then I don't remember
10:19that point on until we arrive in
10:22Bathmine. And again, so Rachel went to
10:24Woodstock, Connecticut. And Rachel, do
10:27you want to take a second and like so I
10:30can listen so I can stop listening to
10:31myself ramble and like explain how
10:34there's two campuses?
10:35>> Sure. Um, so I went to the Woodstock,
10:38uh, Connecticut campus. The Bath Main
10:41campus is obviously in Bath, Maine. Um,
10:44we tended to I don't know how it worked
10:47your years, Kate, but I've like my
10:49experience with your campus, um, was it
10:53was usually used as a threat for like
10:55kids at Woodstock that wouldn't behave
10:57properly. They would threat to send us
11:00up to Bath as a punishment.
11:01>> Oh my god. Okay, sorry. Keep going. I'm
11:04dying.
11:05>> So, Bath, I never I never got sent up to
11:08Bath. like I said to the woods, but you
11:11know, we would play you guys in sports
11:13occasionally. Um, we would pass through
11:15for like track meets and stuff when we
11:18play other, you know, places in uh like
11:20the Vermont schools and the other
11:22schools like that. Um, but yeah, your
11:24campus was always from my years it was
11:27used as like a behavioral threat like,
11:29"Oh, you don't want to get sent up to
11:30Bath."
11:31>> Wow.
11:32>> That's kind of my experience.
11:34>> Wow. I didn't I don't have direct
11:36experience going to the Bath campus
11:39though that I just know that kids would
11:41get transferred between the campuses.
11:43>> Yes, that that is. So, and I'm just I'm
11:46being so audible and like laughing
11:47because I it's so interesting to see
11:51like how exactly similar everything is,
11:55but then like certain things like that.
11:58I had no idea that we meaning like like
12:02our um our Phoenix literally that was
12:07the um the school whatever emblem.
12:11>> It was funny at Woodstock actually
12:13before you got sent up to Bath they had
12:16like a extra
12:18um like out to work program level and it
12:21was called like being on Phoenix House.
12:23You're part of Phoenix House. Like,
12:24>> no way. I
12:26>> probably gonna get up to that shortly.
12:28Yeah. And it was mainly all these
12:30females that were part of Phoenix House.
12:32It was rarely ever boys.
12:34>> See, things like this I've never heard
12:36before and are fascinating, but like
12:38make perfect sense. Like just not even
12:41to bat an eye. But I mean that that's
12:44And what we were what like how many
12:47years apart?
12:48>> I was I went into go
12:562005 and then like how many numbers?
12:59Sorry, I wasn't listening for a second.
13:02>> Oh, sorry. I went in summer two uh 2005.
13:06So, what year did you go for the first
13:07year?
13:08>> So, I was 1996
13:11and then let out 1998.
13:15And I don't love that.
13:18>> Sorry. Go ahead.
13:20>> No, no, no. You're good. You're good.
13:21>> No, I don't remember what I was saying.
13:23I have ADD. You go.
13:26>> Oh, well, no. Yeah, I just remember
13:28Phoenix House being like a a punishment
13:31level, like an extra punishment level. I
13:33think they invented that like my I want
13:36to say like the middle of my junior
13:38going into senior year. It wasn't all of
13:40my years there, but I remember um for my
13:44years at least 05 to08, there was like a
13:46Phoenix house or like a Phoenix extra
13:49level thing for most of the girls that
13:52ended up getting transferred to Bath.
13:54>> Interesting.
13:56I mean,
13:57>> did they have any schools like that? Oh,
13:59go ahead.
14:00>> No, you go ahead, please.
14:02>> Uh did they have any schools like that
14:03for you, Kate? Like that they would tell
14:05you if you don't if you act up here,
14:06we'll send you here. Did they have any?
14:09because I'm curious since they had them
14:10at Rachel school. Okay, what school was
14:13that for you guys?
14:14>> Okay, so that's Oh my god, this is one
14:16of those things that it's like my brain
14:18just is is just fried. I have so much
14:21information and my parents kept
14:23literally every single document. So,
14:25it's like so hard to narrow this
14:27question down. But from my documents and
14:32you know all of these things that I'm so
14:34grateful for um you know if my parents
14:37had to send me to the TTI this is kind
14:40of like the best sort of circumstances
14:44because I'm able to fill in the blanks.
14:47Um,
14:50basically I have paperwork like from my
14:53mom's notes
14:55>> and there are different schools and of
14:59those include Elon. Oh my god. Where
15:01there I'm sorry I have to say like
15:05I'll send those to you later. It's
15:06insane. Um, Elon and then if you
15:10misbehave during that summer program
15:12they would send you to Seuss.
15:15And
15:16>> how is that spelled? Do you not?
15:18>> No. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. Trust me, I
15:20know way too much about it. I'm like
15:22obsessed. S U W. And so it stands for
15:28>> Go ahead.
15:29>> Was it at Trails Carolina? Seuss.
15:31>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So Seuss is was in
15:35Idaho originally and that that literally
15:38came out of the entire Utah wilderness
15:42movement.
15:42>> Okay. And so it was a wilderness place,
15:45>> right? So it's called it was called
15:47school of urban I can't I am so visual
15:52and since I'm talking it's not as clear
15:54but school of wilderness and survival
15:57and seriously Jordan like probably like
16:01a third or more of the people that you
16:04have talked to on this podcast attended
16:07that [ __ ]
16:08>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
16:09>> Yeah. Definitely
16:11definitely had a lot of people that have
16:12been building wilderness programs,
16:13right? And that sounded familiar when
16:15you said it.
16:16>> At first I thought it was like Dr.
16:17Seuss, like Seuss. I was like,
16:20>> I had heard a [ __ ] that yet.
16:21>> You could only wish. So, just to finish
16:24because like it is so worth talking
16:26about and this is like off topic if it's
16:28okay with you because because it's still
16:32[ __ ] going. Um,
16:36basically,
16:39you know what? I'm going to go. That
16:41That'll be a diet tribe. Let's You
16:42please ask a question. I don't even want
16:44to go there.
16:45>> Okay. What happened when you You
16:46remember like what h what do you
16:48remember about when you first like got
16:50there?
16:51>> Them doing what did they do?
16:53>> Okay.
16:55It was so traumatic and so [ __ ] up and
17:00so unexpected in a way that like
17:04at at 15 years old I mean
17:09it's just like Cabalurasa
17:12and
17:14you have no idea that there are people
17:16like this in the world and you have no
17:18idea that there's this kind of like I
17:21don't know darkness and manipulation but
17:23so okay So my dad and I
17:27drive from my home and we get to Bath
17:30Main. I have no idea where we park. I
17:34have like a very very bizarre exact
17:37ability to like remember specific
17:39things. That's not something I can
17:41remember. But what I do remember the
17:43first thing is being in my hide
17:45interview. Okay, Rachel, you take it for
17:48a sec. Tell me about the hide interview
17:50and then I'll tell you like like what I
17:52experienced.
17:54Um, well, I just remember my initial
17:57interview being asked a lot like, "Are
18:00you willing to change? Are you willing
18:02to be here?" And my answer was, "No, I'm
18:06not. There's nothing wrong with me.
18:08>> I love this girl."
18:09>> Like, I just I want to finish school and
18:11get my, you know, diploma and get a job.
18:14You know, I wasn't with the program even
18:17in the interview. Um, and then I
18:19remember being on Woodstock campus and
18:23some kids, um, you know, obviously
18:25during interviews they only put out the
18:27best kids that are going to, you know,
18:28upspeak the school.
18:29>> Oh, yeah.
18:30>> The two four kids are not going to be
18:32the kids that you come across, right?
18:34>> But I had to run to the bathroom and I
18:36came across a kid that was on 24 and
18:39they asked me, "Did you talk?" And I was
18:41completely confused until afterwards
18:44when I figured out if you talk, this
18:46was, you know, of course just a rumor or
18:48whatever the kids made up. But
18:51supposedly if you talk in an interview,
18:52that's how you get accepted.
18:55Interesting. Now, back up for a second
18:57and because I was already going to like
18:59like beg you to answer this for me
19:02anyway because you're so much better at
19:03this and oh my god, I'm so thankful
19:05you're on here and for your existence.
19:08Um
19:10what is two for
19:12>> and what what are like synonyms? Let's
19:14say 24 is also work through is also
19:20>> consequence for other programs stuff
19:22like that.
19:24>> It would basically be like their
19:26punishment
19:27>> code I guess you could say.
19:30>> Yeah.
19:33So, I have ADD and like blanked out um
19:38what we were just last talking about,
19:39but since we're on 24, can we do that
19:41right now?
19:42>> Sure.
19:43>> No, no, no, no. Let's You're going to
19:45have to edit this. Hold on. This is like
19:47how traumatic it was to me.
19:48>> So, hopefully this will be like one of
19:50the few edits.
19:52Um,
19:54so we roll up at some point and we get
19:57to the hide campus and to the mansion
20:01and basically
20:03the first thing I remember is being
20:06like I've literally tried maybe once or
20:09twice before to like find words for this
20:12and describe it cuz it's so vivid in my
20:15mind. But basically, we rolled up to the
20:19mansion in Bath Mine and I remember
20:24being in my interview and so we were on
20:27the second floor of the mansion and we
20:29can like get into the whole mansion
20:31thing later, but that's where we
20:33actually went to class when we did go to
20:35class. And I was being interviewed or
20:38what they're calling it as an interview
20:41by Joe Gald's daughter, one of them,
20:44Lori G. Wait, I'm sorry. Lori Gerard
20:48because it's so nepotistic. That's a
20:51whole different topic, but um I remember
20:54sitting there and having
20:58I'm sorry I need a second for this cuz I
21:00just like don't know the words. It's
21:03just something that I you know
21:06like see in my mind. Um,
21:11but I remember her sitting across from
21:13me and you know one of John Sedwick
21:16Hyde's
21:19um like drawing rooms. It wasn't a
21:22drawing room but it was on the second
21:23floor and that's sorry I'm losing my
21:26mind now. Um, but she, this woman is
21:28like glaring at me and she's sitting
21:31there like hunched back in her chair
21:33like leaning back with her leg crossed
21:36and, you know, looking like literally
21:38the meanest look on her face like I am I
21:43I don't even know how to explain, but
21:45just made you feel like
21:51I don't have words for it. Um,
21:53>> like she was just pen penetrating you
21:55with her eyes.
21:57>> Yes. And then and like exactly what
22:00Rachel just said, like asking so many
22:03questions and like it was so traumatic
22:06for me. Um,
22:08>> I don't remember.
22:09>> Yeah.
22:11>> Like a death scare. Yeah.
22:13>> I mean Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
22:15If it's not a death stair, like at some
22:17point like I'll come up with
22:19>> Yeah. But um just like looking at you
22:23like you were some manipulative teenager
22:27like girl that like we're going to try
22:29to nail you for anything with your
22:31appearance or anything you say. And um I
22:37just remember having never experienced
22:39that. But I know that I'm extremely
22:44I can be extremely obstinate when I need
22:47to be. Yeah. the only word I can think
22:49of because I'm a person that is so
22:52authentic and like so true to myself and
22:56so much of what got stripped from me
22:58being there was that piece of it that
23:02lasted for like 20 plus years. But um
23:05you got to bring me back to where I was.
23:07>> She's just like judging you.
23:09>> Yeah. She's like judging me and she's
23:10like just like it was like threatening
23:13and she looking back it was like
23:17>> exactly like her father. She learned how
23:19to abuse people exactly like her father
23:22and there hide videos out there that
23:24show this interview but like a very rosy
23:27version of it. So, I remember at some
23:29point I just stood up and I just left.
23:31And I I don't remember if I said [ __ ]
23:33you, but like I can't I I mean, I said
23:35definitely something to that effect, but
23:37I can't imagine me saying anything else
23:39besides [ __ ] you
23:41at that point in my life. Um, and the
23:44next thing I remember, I'm sorry I'm
23:45jogging this out. You're going to have
23:46to cut this. The next thing I remember,
23:48I'm up at
23:52Hold on a sec.
23:54>> You're fine.
23:54>> Also, I'm not crying. I'm just like
23:56trying to like CPTtsd like
23:58>> No, you're fine.
24:00Um,
24:02so at some point I'm just like sitting
24:04at the top of the the mansion stairs
24:06that second floor and
24:11I don't remember how I learned that my
24:14dad was gone and that he left.
24:17But I did at some point which was, you
24:20know, I don't know if I had went I may
24:23have like gone out after I said [ __ ] you
24:26or whatever I said to Lori.
24:28Um,
24:33okay. More edits. Sorry.
24:34>> No, no, you're fine.
24:36>> If anything, and like if you don't want
24:38to edit it, the best thing is you can
24:41make an example of the fact that
24:43literally the TTI and high causes this
24:47[ __ ] Like literally keep this in here
24:49just as an example, you know?
24:51>> Yeah, I usually I usually do. I don't
24:53edit my videos unless somebody directly
24:55wants me to edit something specifically.
24:57I don't like editing. And even then, I
24:59don't like editing because it's like,
25:00dude,
25:01>> I just had somebody
25:03>> the other day, and no shade to them,
25:04they're totally fine. They're another
25:05survivor, and they reached out to me. Uh
25:08they had a video coming out soon, and
25:09they reached out and they're like, "Hey,
25:11I've been feeling, you know, kind of."
25:12We already had this conversation once,
25:14mind you. But, uh, she like reached out
25:16pretty much right after we had done in
25:18the interview and, uh, cuz she wanted to
25:19see it and then she watched it and then
25:21she was like, "Yeah, I'm kind of feeling
25:22like up in my head and I I feel like it
25:24wasn't that good and I feel like I was
25:25like being like coming across a certain
25:27way like and people are going to
25:28interpret it a certain way." And I was
25:30like, "Look, like people are going to
25:31interpret it the way they interpret it.
25:34Like that's not up to you." pretty much
25:35what I told you before we even started
25:38this. You know, it's not up to you to um
25:40to, you know, do it in a specific way to
25:43be, you know, more receptive to certain
25:45audiences. It's just like they're either
25:47going to accept what you're saying or
25:49they're not. And I think at the end of
25:50the day, it's it's it comes off to be,
25:53in my experience, just be completely
25:54genuine and just like leaving the stuff
25:56in there shows that it traumatized you
25:58and that you can't like it's hard for
26:00you to come up with the words.
26:02>> So, I could either cut it and make it
26:04look They're like super like
26:06>> on top of your [ __ ] or I could leave it
26:09like it is and just be like whoa
26:10actually she's struggling to find words
26:12like cuz there's a lot of people that
26:14will be like try and discount what
26:15somebody says. How is she so
26:16articulated? How does she remember every
26:17[ __ ] which some people can there's
26:20like 50% or more people in my experience
26:22that that can have experiences like this
26:24like me like I'm super detail oriented.
26:26I remember like a lot about my
26:27experience. There's only certain things
26:29that I don't remember but there's still
26:30things I don't remember. And then
26:31there's people that are more more like
26:34you and other people I've interviewed
26:35that are it's harder to come up with the
26:36words of like what happened. They blank
26:39out on a lot of the things that
26:40happened. Not saying that none of that
26:41stuff didn't happen at all. I'm just
26:43saying that it's hard for you guys to
26:45find the words for it, you know?
26:46>> Yeah. The one thing I do, and I'm sorry
26:49to be like a [ __ ] like pain in the
26:50ass. One thing I do want to like make
26:52very clear and just cuz like we haven't
26:54talked before, but I already think
26:56you're [ __ ] amazing and Rachel like
26:58has expressed her like amazing. She
27:02loves you. Okay, trying to keep on track
27:04here. Um, but
27:07>> I think that like I do remember very
27:11everything to the point where I will
27:13always say like if I don't remember a
27:17specific thing like I'll know I don't
27:19remember it, I guess. And so like that
27:21was my experience with be with that
27:24first part. Um because I'd never
27:28experienced something like that before,
27:30like all the other [ __ ] And I'm This is
27:33a whole different topic. I'm so
27:34fortunate. I literally have my parents
27:37kept everything. They have kept every
27:40single piece of paper, family learning
27:42center, um Rachel, what else? like like
27:46bookstore logs and and bills and like
27:49the original check that was like written
27:52out to hide. So, I've been really lucky
27:54in terms of um Oh my god. Yeah. You
27:56don't even know. And by the way, like
27:58afterwards after we like celebrate you
28:01and Rachel too for like keeping me sane
28:06in all areas at every time. Um
28:10I I like seriously need an archivist.
28:13like I have got so much good stuff and
28:17um Okay, so
28:19bring me back home. I'm sorry. ADHD.
28:22>> Uh so so she was uh um you were like out
28:25in the hall and you kind of just went
28:27out after they were
28:28>> I just remember balling.
28:31>> I just remember literally like balling
28:33and realizing that I was left there and
28:36like my dad wasn't there. And so that's
28:39the point from, you know, when I
28:41remember like pretty much almost
28:43everything. And it's also, you know, you
28:46can if you don't remember something, how
28:47can you like All right. Um just crying
28:52like
28:53>> Yeah. How is it bringing up emotions for
28:55you if you don't remember,
28:58you know?
28:58>> Wait, can
29:00you can you say that again?
29:02>> I was saying like how like it wouldn't
29:04make sense for something to bring up
29:05emotions for you, but then you not
29:07remember, you know? Oh yeah. So totally
29:10you remember you know you just
29:11>> Yeah. Yeah. Oh no no no I know.
29:13>> Yeah I was into like and I said this
29:16before hide people. Okay, maybe Rachel
29:19is just like like above this and she
29:23probably is, but like for people from
29:26like my era and I think honestly from
29:28every era, we're constantly having to
29:31like in real time analyze things and and
29:35more more than just like PTSD, more than
29:39like you know fear or CPTTSD,
29:42we were
29:45we were like an experiment. We were
29:48literally guinea pigs. Um,
29:53yeah, that for Okay, that's a whole
29:56different topic and I'm just going to
29:58say Marcus Chatfield is going to
30:00hopefully help me with that in at one
30:02point in life. But yeah, let's move on
30:06cuz like that that I think the first
30:09getting there and that just like [ __ ]
30:11balling like the abandonment is, you
30:15know, that was the first thing in the
30:16summer challenge and is it they aimed to
30:20disorient you. Um that was the whole
30:23thing. We had no idea what was coming at
30:26us and then what we would be doing the
30:28next six weeks and what really showed up
30:31on, you know, beautiful like glossy
30:34brochures that were passed around to
30:36educational consultants and TTI
30:39educational consultants and um you know,
30:42people in my town and in this county um
30:46and really like all over the US and now
30:50unfortunately internationally.
30:52Um,
30:56>> yeah.
30:57>> Yeah. Um,
30:59>> so you were crying out in the hallway
31:00and then did they come in?
31:02>> Laugh myself.
31:03>> No, no, you're totally fine.
31:05>> You were crying. No, you're totally
31:06fine. Uh, you were crying and then did
31:08they come out in the hall? Like did they
31:09search you? Like how did they get you?
31:12>> Like what happened like after that?
31:15>> So there were no searches. That's
31:17another part like that's like a blank
31:19spot right there. Um, but I do know I
31:22eventually What I've been wondering is
31:24like how did my clothes get there? Like
31:26I'm a very like I would have noticed.
31:29How did all of my you know, how did I
31:32not I don't really know.
31:34>> Wait, your your your at home clothes got
31:37there.
31:38>> Yeah. Yeah. Like I wouldn't I don't
31:40know.
31:40>> Did your dad bring them?
31:42>> I mean, whoever.
31:44>> Yes.
31:46>> Let me You know what? there are parts of
31:47this story that you're actually really
31:49helping me like I'm taking notes right
31:51now because there are parts that I
31:53haven't thought about before. But what I
31:55do remember is you know like being in my
31:59dorm which was this um
32:02you know like old cute main house or
32:05whatever and everything seemed like a
32:08boarding school like a regular one.
32:11>> Okay. like did you have what was what
32:15was like an average day like what would
32:16you do at hide?
32:19>> Um
32:23well so there's two different ways of
32:25explaining that which Rachel you're
32:27definitely going to be helping with
32:28this. Um there is one if you're on 24
32:32which is like the disciplinary thing
32:34that Rachel talked about. Um, and then
32:38there's one like regular day like
32:40pretend school or whatever.
32:42>> So
32:44maybe I'll touch on the
32:48>> I don't know how to answer this. Rachel,
32:50you go.
32:51>> Well, I just I know for me, I was not in
32:54class a lot, but um
32:56>> Same same. for the days that like for
32:59instance let's say I could go to class
33:01like the typical schedule of the day was
33:03like there's breakfast in the morning I
33:06remember um we had wake up obviously
33:09there would be like an inspection before
33:12um leave the dorm I think if I remember
33:15correctly
33:15>> yeah yeah yeah oh my god oh my god I
33:17have a commentary about that but keep
33:19going
33:20>> there'd be like a mini dorm meeting you
33:22go to breakfast and then from breakfast
33:24it's like your
33:26school day, per se. I guess you could
33:28say like you have your your math, your
33:30English, your science, whatever the
33:32hell. Um,
33:34>> performing arts, but we'll get to that
33:36after
33:37>> that. Yeah. Um, and then I believe after
33:41lunch for Woodstock at least was sports
33:43block and then after sports block there
33:46was I want to say
33:49study hall was before dinner I want to
33:51say. Um, or it could be flipped vice
33:54versa. But either way,
33:55>> discovery groups though.
33:57>> Oh, a discovery groups for me was uh
34:00part of school day generally.
34:02>> Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
34:04>> It was it wasn't like its own separate
34:06like the seminar part of it wasn't like
34:07its own it was built into the school
34:09day.
34:10>> Did you guys have it three times a week
34:12as well?
34:14>> At least if not more I would say. Yeah.
34:16>> Was that like a feedback circle thing?
34:18Like a check in call you out if you
34:20weren't talking about your [ __ ]
34:22>> Yeah. where we discover ourselves, hold
34:25each other accountable,
34:27>> tell all of our [ __ ]
34:29>> everything that is a secret or you have
34:32to make up as a secret in order to show
34:36that you're like growing.
34:37>> Yeah.
34:39>> Make up trauma and then you eventually
34:40start believing the trauma actually
34:42happened to you.
34:42>> Yes. Yes. And you might not so
34:46enthusiastic about this right now.
34:49>> Exactly. like all the kids that got sent
34:50there for literally just saying no to
34:52their parents one time and it's just
34:54like what the [ __ ] am I going to talk
34:55about?
34:56>> I had to make up some trauma that I got
34:57raped or some [ __ ] when I was like three
34:59and it never happened and now I actually
35:00have CBTSD because I actually feel like
35:02I got raped.
35:04>> Exactly. And and that and then having to
35:06live that narrative that like whether it
35:08be true or something you were literally
35:10forced to make up. Like for example, I I
35:13remember one like my one of my
35:15roommates, they always switched us
35:16around and Rachel, I know they did that
35:18at Woodstock, too. It was like kind of
35:20to disorient us or something. Um, but
35:23it's like, okay, what can I make up a
35:25lie about that is still a lie, but like
35:28I'll get the least amount of punishment.
35:31So, this wonderful girl who is just this
35:34hippie chick that like introduced me to
35:36the Grateful Dead and was like so
35:38wonderful and like it's flower child.
35:41Um, she was like, "All right, you know
35:44what? I lied about the fact that I
35:46borrowed one like bounce dryer sheet or
35:50something." So, you'd have to make
35:52things up, but then like you'd have to
35:54keep growing and growing. I don't know
35:56where I'm going this go. I don't know.
35:59Cut that out. I sound stupid. I don't
36:01know where I'm going with this, but like
36:04there were eight to I think like roughly
36:07at least back then eight to 12 kids and
36:12then like a discovery group leader and
36:14then like maybe a co-discovery group
36:17leader that's like in training or
36:18something or just
36:19>> Oh wow. So you were a smaller school.
36:22>> Oh yeah yeah yeah.
36:23>> Interesting.
36:24>> Yeah. Yeah. We were
36:26>> Hey, how
36:27>> I think I think that Woodstock was
36:29smaller. No,
36:30>> I think Woodstock was I was just going
36:32to say how many like how many would you
36:34say your first year was the total
36:36student body?
36:38>> So, if I were crafty and like able to do
36:42executive functioning normally, I'd be
36:44able to like pull out my stuff right
36:45now. I have everything and all the
36:47lists. I want to say, God, I don't even
36:50like I don't even want to guess, but
36:54maybe like 150 to 200. I
36:57>> was gonna say I can't imagine.
36:58>> I will come Yeah, I'll come back to that
37:00with with exact things, believe me.
37:04>> Yeah, I can't imagine that Woodstock
37:06would be any more than that. If that
37:09>> Did you guys all live in the mansion?
37:12>> So, the man
37:14>> Yeah, the mansion is the bath campus.
37:16It's just the main campus.
37:18>> Yeah. Woodstock we lived in from what I
37:21heard was an old like nunnery
37:23>> Catholic. Yeah. Yeah.
37:24>> Something like that. Yeah. I don't know
37:26what the history of what it was, but it
37:28was like an already existing dormatory
37:30that was I guess Hyde bought it in
37:33Connecticut, that piece of land in the
37:35ground, and then we just lived in
37:37whatever those old dorms were,
37:38>> right?
37:39>> And I remember
37:40>> Oh, go ahead. No, I was just going to
37:42say like I'm sorry I can go off on too
37:45many tangents because there are just too
37:46many reminders, but I remember because
37:49Rachel was talking about like you know
37:51what what was the cross like
37:53relationship or whatever from Woodstock
37:55to Bath and the the time that I remember
37:59going down to Woodstock was because they
38:02had this musician um I can't remember
38:05his name but it I mean it doesn't even
38:07matter but like Hyde tried to be so arts
38:11oriented. So, we went down for this
38:13concert and I just remember thinking
38:16like like this place creeps me out like
38:20something
38:22something in I don't know what it is but
38:25something in the history like in some of
38:28the buildings like specifically the
38:30dining hall just these crazy things and
38:33I also want to point out I have ne not
38:35ever had any kind of like psychosis in
38:38my life it just there was something
38:41about it that felt
38:43>> well you're not off honestly because
38:46>> really and one of our legends or urban
38:49legends of Woodstock was the legend of
38:52Top Hat and it was supposed
38:54>> what is that
38:55>> basically a guy from what I remember I
38:58may be getting it wrong but the legend
39:00was that it was the ghost of a guy that
39:02hung himself in the theater
39:05>> I wouldn't doubt I wouldn't doubt and
39:07even maybe some students that have died
39:09on the property that nobody
39:10Everybody hush hush about.
39:12>> Yeah, you never know.
39:13>> There was something just so sinister
39:15feeling
39:16>> for so long from what I remember. Like
39:19the the buildings when I went in 2005
39:22still looked like they were from the
39:2470s. Like they never got changed.
39:27>> Yes. And I never saw like the dorms or
39:31anything like that, but it just it was
39:33it was such a weird place. And then of
39:35course Hyde, you know, was like, "All
39:37right, let's put all of our G names on
39:40everything and like rename whatever
39:42these dorms are." But um All right,
39:45bring me back to center. Somebody
39:49>> you were talking about um like you went
39:52to this concert and it was super creepy.
39:54>> Yeah. No, I just wanted to say like my,
39:56you know, my experience and
39:59>> um there was something creepy creepy
40:01about that campus is is all and um
40:04luckily that campus is closed down and
40:08I'm trying to remember what year was
40:09that
40:10>> down
40:10>> that we know of. It's closed. It might
40:12have just rebranded under a different
40:13name and it opened back up.
40:14>> Well, no, I know.
40:15>> Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Honey,
40:18>> local academy, I think it was soccer.
40:20>> I track that [ __ ] like Okay, sorry. I
40:23can't you you guys go.
40:26>> No, but yeah. No, it's not one of those
40:27that it like rebranded. They definitely
40:29have, from what I know, charter schools
40:31and stuff, but the Woodstock campus was
40:33actually um from what I know, it was
40:36bought by like the local academy.
40:40>> But then at the same Yes, true. And and
40:42totally true. And at the same time, how
40:45many of Woodstock Academy like how many
40:48people moved over there? And so it's,
40:51you know, it's just like
40:54that's a whole different topic, but
40:56yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, your answer is
40:58correct.
40:59Like they also the thing that there's so
41:01many clues cuz like the colors of
41:06Woodstock Academy and like even if they
41:08were the same colors before um like why
41:11did they suddenly get like so passionate
41:13about doing wrestling and things like
41:15that and like adopt all of these new
41:17things? But that's not important right
41:19now. Let's let's move on from that.
41:22>> Uh was there any like solitary
41:25confinement that they would put you in
41:27where you went?
41:30>> That's a good question. Um
41:35no.
41:36>> Okay.
41:36>> In my experience.
41:38>> Okay.
41:38>> But solitary confinement,
41:43this could be a philosophical question
41:45or conversation. Um when we did 24 we
41:49were put on silence and we were not
41:54allowed to be like in certain parts of
41:57the school. We had to walk in a line
42:00like in a military line and what's you
42:03know
42:07part of our program was literally
42:09basically a military program in my
42:12experience and you know
42:14>> in front of you you have to do gap
42:15checks stuff like that
42:17>> um I don't know about gap checks but
42:19it's just like we were you know so
42:22controlled so no we were never I was
42:24never locked in like a specific room or
42:27like creepy terrible thing like that.
42:29But the thing about Hyde is that they
42:32are even better at just mind fuckage. So
42:37>> yeah, they're just going to do the same
42:38thing but in a different way. So instead
42:40of putting you in a locked room by
42:41yourself, they're just going to put you
42:43on silence so you can't talk.
42:44>> Exactly. But I will say, Rachel, I
42:47remember Rachel, you saying something
42:49about that that was different that you
42:51had experienced that I fully I fully
42:54believe you and I because I've heard
42:55other people say it as well.
42:57>> Yeah. Woodstock they would use like the
43:00what was it like the unused classrooms
43:03where deans area they made like their
43:05own deans area one year in like the
43:07bottom of I want to say it was called
43:09West Haver Dorm and in the bottom
43:11>> creepy that's a gold name.
43:14>> Is it? I didn't know that. But um the
43:16bottom of that dorm at night, if they
43:19were interrogating you, they they would
43:20unlock those unused classrooms and put
43:23you in
43:23>> Wow.
43:25>> interrogate you about what?
43:27>> Oh my god.
43:29>> Like if if a kid snitched on you or what
43:31they called brothers keepering you.
43:33>> Okay.
43:34>> Um
43:34>> they would interrogate the hell out of
43:36you until they got you to write
43:37something down or you confess or
43:39something like that. or if you don't
43:41they like for instance I've definitely
43:43fallen asleep in one of those rooms
43:45numerous times because I just
43:47>> and they turn the heat up.
43:49>> Yeah, they'll turn the heat up or
43:50they'll make it really uncomfortable for
43:52you. Like I remember at one point I was
43:54in there and I really had to go to the
43:55bathroom. They wouldn't let me leave
43:56until like it got to a point that you
43:59know this may be too much but it it
44:01basically got borderline physical
44:03between me and the staff and I was like
44:05I'm going to the bathroom. You don't
44:06want this.
44:06>> That's not too much at all. Say
44:08whatever. Um, but yeah, it it definitely
44:11would get to a point that they would
44:13psychologically put that scenario on you
44:16that you are now in like an
44:18interrogation kind of mode. This is not
44:21something you are free to walk away from
44:22right now.
44:23>> Yeah. Put you in fight or flight. So,
44:24you have to respond
44:26>> basically. Yeah. They would definitely
44:27put that put that scenario out there.
44:31>> Yeah. There were so many fear tactics
44:34and there's so many historical things
44:36about it and like the whole methodology
44:40and like Joe Gald being the super old
44:43guy that you know came out of World War
44:46II um
44:49in the Navy and you know what I'm just
44:51going to stop right there. We can't even
44:52go into history because I can't even
44:54try. Right.
44:57>> Okay. The um
44:59was it easy for you to progress in the
45:01program or was it hard for you or did
45:03you try but it you it was just impos it
45:06just felt impossible to to get anywhere
45:08in the program? Like did you graduate?
45:10>> No. Thank god I didn't graduate which is
45:13when you listen to that album
45:14commencement, you've got to listen to
45:15that song because that's what
45:17commencement is. And thankfully Rachel
45:19did not either, even though that's
45:20[ __ ] up and they should have let her,
45:22but that's a whole different story. Um,
45:26>> we didn't so we didn't have like typical
45:29numbers or like levels so to speak in
45:33terms of like pretend it's like Wasp
45:35like Richard like Yeah.
45:37>> So we didn't have things that specific,
45:39but we did have things that were just
45:41like experimental [ __ ] Like for
45:44one, for one thing it was called the emo
45:47school. I'm sorry. The emo I can't even
45:50say it. The emo scale. Like literally
45:53I've not said that in like 20 years.
45:56>> Oh, is that that the excellent effort?
45:58>> Excellent.
46:00>> Yeah. Excellent efforts and then what
46:03>> emotions and off track.
46:05>> And off track. Yeah.
46:07>> Okay. That's almost exactly like plus
46:09five and negative five commit commit the
46:12commitment scale on our [ __ ] program.
46:15They're just like you're either negative
46:17five a negative five would be somebody
46:19that just came to the program and
46:21they're they're expected to be
46:22rebellious and protest about being there
46:24not making any progress in their
46:26program. Plus five is on the other
46:28completely other spectrum where it's
46:30you're doing every literally everything
46:32[ __ ] possible in your control to get
46:34out of the program and graduate. It's
46:37it's a literal commitment scale and they
46:38put you on that and be like, "I see you
46:40at at a negative three today, Jordan.
46:42You need to [ __ ] step it up."
46:44>> Like I want to see you at at least a two
46:46by next week.
46:47>> Yeah. Like I think that No, I fully hear
46:52that. I think that
46:54>> I don't know. It's always such a relief
46:56to just to like have a high person. I
46:59mean that isn't brainwashed and that you
47:00know Rachel and I know each other pretty
47:02well. um to be able to like even talk
47:06about this cuz it's so confusing. Um we
47:09they basically like there weren't exact
47:12check offs. It it's not like all right
47:14if you do one certain thing you're not
47:16going to make it to like this level or
47:18you're going to like go back two or
47:19whatever. It was literally whatever the
47:21[ __ ] they wanted. But when they decided
47:24you were ready,
47:25>> it had nothing to do with you as a
47:27person or your economy.
47:30>> That's a lot based on your peer reviews
47:32as well.
47:33>> Okay.
47:34>> But other people who are thinking of
47:35you, so you couldn't just sit there and
47:37just keep to yourself.
47:38>> A lot of like peer and student reviews.
47:40So like I remember the gradu the hide
47:42graduation process. E
47:45>> I wasn't part of it, but like that's
47:47Rachel. Your
47:48>> that's how you get your graduation. Like
47:51let's say you get your called senior e
47:53vows. So they evaluate you
47:56>> um I think it was like a diploma, a
47:58certificate and I forget what the other
48:00thing was a doctorate maybe they they
48:02made some nonsense.
48:02>> No
48:04>> basically um yeah all your your students
48:06in the senior body decide what you're
48:09worthy of at hide graduation in the
48:11character education program
48:13>> right and like
48:14>> you have to have like a 100% to
48:15graduate.
48:17No, but you would also like it was
48:19basically like a you're you bring shame
48:22upon your family kind of thing if you
48:23don't get like the highest.
48:25>> Right. Right. And they also at the same
48:27time they will do everything to like
48:29keep you back. So you have to attend
48:32another year like you're not ready. Your
48:34attitude isn't good enough. Like you
48:37know just the dumbest dumbest things
48:40that are just like psychological mind
48:42[ __ ] And so so many kids end up, you
48:45know,
48:47>> being there in the summer. Go ahead.
48:49>> Did they call it a PG year for you guys?
48:52They did not call it a PG year at that
48:55time, but I think that they do they they
48:57they my belief is that they started
49:01calling it a PG year because of the
49:03sports because Hyde has a really good
49:06way of manipulating the public and
49:08bringing in um new applicants and and
49:12stuff like with the whole sport thing,
49:14but that's a different topic and I don't
49:16even care about it. So
49:18>> notice that the PG year kids like seemed
49:21always to be older also than all the
49:23rest of
49:24>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's I mean
49:25and that's standard like I think that
49:27they're trying to You're exactly right.
49:29I think that they're what they're trying
49:30to do with that is like just to to blend
49:34into like the regular normal like like
49:38actual boarding schools in New England.
49:40Um I know it's for it's a whole bunch of
49:43things but I got off track there.
49:45>> Yeah. Oh my god. You say boarding
49:47school, they literally people just brush
49:49it off like, "Oh, just boarding school."
49:50Okay. I knew those from back in the day.
49:52>> Exactly. And that's why like a different
49:54topic like our whole, you know, the fact
49:56that we finally got to like speak this
49:58summer like through the newspaper like
50:00we had our article like it's insane. And
50:04since then people have been speaking up.
50:06But um
50:08I just got off track again because I was
50:10watching my dogs.
50:14you were talking about uh how it's just
50:16now getting exposure.
50:18>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
50:19>> Yeah.
50:20>> I sort of went off there. There was like
50:21not that much of a segue, but
50:24>> next.
50:25>> So essentially the staff just decided
50:27when they the staff and the student body
50:29would decide when you were ready to
50:30graduate. There wasn't just points and
50:31levels. It was just that
50:32>> exactly
50:33>> when they decided. So, you could
50:34literally literally get held back for
50:38just always waiting for the other shoe
50:39to drop because you don't know if
50:41something could potentially make you get
50:43held back or whatever. Um,
50:44>> exactly. And that's like the fear mode.
50:47And that's where I think why so many of
50:50us, mostly including myself, have
50:53complex post-traumatic stress disorder
50:55because we're constantly having to be
50:57like, how are we going to like
51:00just not have to be in the worst
51:03situation possible? And
51:07sorry, I digress.
51:08>> And then when things start going good,
51:10it's just like, no, but how long are
51:11they going to be going good for? Yeah.
51:13>> Do I need to prepare for not having jack
51:15[ __ ] including a house over my head
51:17eventually for no reason?
51:19>> You know what I mean? Like stuff like
51:21that. For at least for me, it's just
51:23like I'm constantly like
51:25>> I don't I'm actually scared of success
51:27because that brings so much like
51:28uncertainty like how long am I going to
51:31have this success? Is it going to is it
51:33really for real this time? Is it going
51:34to get taken away from me like it has so
51:36many times before? Is some [ __ ] going to
51:38[ __ ] up and I'm just going to fall flat
51:40in my face? Like,
51:41>> yeah,
51:41>> I I deal with that all the time. I think
51:43success is [ __ ] terrifying, dude.
51:45Like,
51:45>> I agree,
51:46>> dude.
51:47>> Really? Like,
51:49>> and I think for a lot of people it is
51:51terrifying, but there's the majority of
51:53people want to ever admit that they're
51:54terrified of that. Like, the same thing
51:57that can bring you like tons of joy like
51:59can be taken away from you. And we know
52:01that better than
52:03>> anybody because we that happened to us
52:04when we were teenagers. Like we we had
52:07the world like maybe not the world but
52:08like what you know people consider
52:11important like a family like like a home
52:13over their head like people their
52:15parents feeding them hopefully there I
52:16know there were some abusive parents but
52:18then everything being taken away we
52:19can't even wear what we want to wear we
52:21have to wear a uniform our autonomyy's
52:23taken away like just in a day everything
52:25taken away
52:27>> there's literally no escape and the
52:29feeling for that yeah
52:33>> so yeah I think a lot of us deal with
52:34that that fear. Um, did you So, how long
52:39were you there?
52:40>> Okay. I was there for the summer
52:43challenge and I feel like we should at
52:45some point
52:46>> touch on that because it's so important.
52:48That's like the indoctrination period.
52:51Um, but let me back up for a second. Um,
52:54I was there for summer challenge which
52:56back then was six weeks and I think in
52:59Woodstock for Rachel it was probably six
53:01weeks too. now is a whole different
53:03story since they're trying to, you know,
53:05blend in and everything. It's like a
53:06week and they're like, "Let's eat ice
53:08cream, take pictures, and like go to the
53:11beach." But, um,
53:14so two school years or two, um, yeah,
53:18two academic years, if we can call them
53:20that.
53:22>> Okay.
53:23And, uh, what was the worst what was the
53:26hardest part about being there when you
53:28were there and how did you deal with it?
53:29And you can name multiple things, but
53:31just like what was the hardest part?
53:35>> Oh my god.
53:38I could sit and ponder on that how to
53:41answer that because there are just so
53:44many
53:47um
53:50>> what's the hardest?
53:53>> Go ahead.
53:54>> What's like a top three for you?
53:56>> Let me think about it for a second. I
53:59think um having the having my parents
54:04conned into believing
54:07the program people the like shitty TTI
54:10educational consultants [ __ ] I'm just
54:13going to [ __ ] say it. Laura Gald, Joe
54:16Gald, Malcolm Gald, Don McMillan, Gigi
54:21McMillan,
54:22Lorie Herd, Paul Herd,
54:26and I'm sorry, but I'm just going to add
54:28John Romac, even though he was somewhere
54:30else. I'm sorry. I didn't expect to do
54:32that, but I hope that Rachel's smiling
54:34right now. Um,
54:41again, like literal CT CPDSD from this
54:44place. I need a reminder where we are.
54:49>> Um,
54:51we were talking about how long you were
54:52there. And then, um, now I'm now I'm
54:55blanking on what my question.
54:56>> No, I'm such a freight rack. Oh my god.
54:58>> No, no, no. You're fine. You're fine.
55:00Um, I it happens to me every now and
55:02too.
55:04Um,
55:05oh yeah, yeah. Hardest part about being
55:07there.
55:08>> Okay. Okay.
55:08>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hardest part.
55:10>> So, yeah. H, okay. Having my parents
55:12believe all those people that I just
55:14named like just Yeah. And in so many
55:17more. Um, because that is something that
55:20just severs the family and has done so
55:23with pro. I mean, I can't even imag like
55:26like most of the I can't come up with
55:30any kind of percentage of the people
55:32that have gone there. even the ones that
55:33they claim are successful or whatever.
55:35It just they interject themselves and
55:39you I felt so desperate so desperate to
55:45figure out a way and to somehow express
55:48myself and even like have enough contact
55:51to either in person or on the phone when
55:55you're allowed to call or whatever. like
55:58how can I figure out a way to possibly
56:01convey what is actually going on in this
56:05[ __ ] show and what we deal with on a
56:08daily basis. And if even if it's not
56:10like you know direct abuse to us on that
56:14like like on me like one specific day
56:17what we're watching and what we're
56:20experiencing for other people too and I
56:24mean not to I don't want to like
56:27believe me I was like very abused there
56:29all of us were um whether they you know
56:33know or not um
56:37I feel like this is going to be really
56:38good for showing knowing how CPTTSD
56:40works. Um, all right. So, that was bad
56:44because it was constantly like having to
56:46try to convince my parents. And then,
56:49you know, it was easier back in the day.
56:51They didn't actually
56:53I don't think they did like a whole lot
56:56of, you know, male censoring, but at the
56:59same time, I'm constantly connecting
57:02with new people and they're telling me
57:04new things. Um,
57:07but
57:11sorry, give me a second. I have a lot of
57:14emails from the computer lab,
57:16specifically 27. And
57:20and I'm so thankful that I have those.
57:22And I think that it's amazing to be able
57:25to look back specifically at a few and
57:29look and see like how wise I was back
57:32then. I I think this the one I'm
57:35thinking of is like age 16 and you know
57:38they weren't they weren't like it was so
57:41long ago you know
57:44they weren't like follow whatever
57:45tracking or like paying attention to our
57:47emails so we could write whatever and
57:51it's just the desperation in that like
57:55the world is going to end because like
57:57if I have to stay here another year I
58:00will literally like like I don't No. And
58:03when we talk about like those senior
58:05evals, which thank God, Rachel, you
58:07didn't have to do either. Like I would
58:10not be on this earth existing if I had
58:13to go through those.
58:16>> Yeah. No, I I went through a few of
58:18them, but I did not getting demoted
58:21honestly was a lifesaver for me.
58:23>> Yeah.
58:24>> Because I was kicked out of the senior
58:26like graduation process at Hyde. Um
58:28>> because you were the cancer of the
58:30school.
58:31>> Yeah. That was the famous
58:33I've heard, you know, that's the spiel
58:35that they give kids that they kick out
58:36is you're the cancer of the school. We
58:38can't have you here anymore. Um, but
58:41yeah, the the senior evals, I I
58:43definitely have seen a kid cry coming
58:46out of those one too many times. Those
58:49were not fun meetings.
58:52>> Yeah. Yeah.
58:53>> They probably say if you make them cry,
58:55then you did a good job.
58:57>> Yeah. Oh, you showed so much humility
58:59and integrity and all these buzz,
59:01>> right? Like all the pain that you show
59:03in the misery is worth it and makes you
59:06grow. And it's like actually that's what
59:09[ __ ] has held us back in life and
59:12traumatized us. But
59:14>> the worst part is that people at the top
59:16probably actually got off because
59:17they're sadistic, most of them. There
59:19were some staff that that were that were
59:20blindsided
59:22>> and I know that from interviewing a
59:23couple of them, but I I for the most
59:25part or at least they say I don't know
59:27because I'm not in their shoes, but um
59:30for a lot of them it was actually they
59:31got off on the exchange of power they
59:33had over people without question our our
59:37place like like
59:39>> you have no idea. I mean there's so much
59:42you could there's so much documentation
59:44too cuz they like own the newspapers and
59:46stuff in Maine. Um,
59:49but you can just like go back to the 70s
59:52and look at all this stuff. How Joe Bald
59:55is just like such a power monster and
59:58just loves getting off on,
1:00:01>> you know, literally slapping children. I
1:00:04mean, it's documented.
1:00:05>> Well, even better if they're labeled as
1:00:08they deserve it. You know, they deserve
1:00:10it. They're bad kids. So, you know,
1:00:14>> this that or the other. Their big thing
1:00:16was emotional growth.
1:00:18>> Right. Exactly. And and
1:00:21God, there's too many top there's too
1:00:23many ways that I could just like
1:00:24>> We always go off.
1:00:26>> We used to make a joke about it at Hyde
1:00:28about the kids that would trip. We could
1:00:30always used to it it was clear who was
1:00:32going to grow up and play Super Cop real
1:00:34life.
1:00:35>> It's crazy because I graduated, but I've
1:00:37never been like that. But um also I was
1:00:40I was forced to graduate. Like they
1:00:42wouldn't let me come home unless I
1:00:43graduated. like I was already level five
1:00:46and they're like if you don't graduate
1:00:47and also I was told that I'd be I was
1:00:51also the last person to graduate from
1:00:52that school before it shut down. They
1:00:54literally told me they're like this
1:00:55school's not going to be in operation
1:00:56anymore. Yeah. They said this school's
1:00:58not going to be in operation much
1:00:59longer. You you it was it was literally
1:01:02a graduating class of two people, me and
1:01:04this guy named Pat Garvey. And I've been
1:01:06looking for him. So if you see this or
1:01:07whatever, Pat, like reach out, dude. We
1:01:09[ __ ]
1:01:09>> Oh, you haven't found him yet?
1:01:10>> We graduated together. But um so we
1:01:12experienced all that [ __ ] together. But
1:01:14um literally the school shut down like
1:01:16not right after we graduated, but we
1:01:18were told we were going to be the last
1:01:20graduating class
1:01:21>> of that school.
1:01:25>> School was like the [ __ ] worst ever
1:01:26on earth.
1:01:28>> One of them.
1:01:29>> Our our program was very unique and had
1:01:32something none of the other programs
1:01:33had. They actually had something called
1:01:34Trail of Lights and it was actually the
1:01:37best thing that ever happened to me in
1:01:38that program. Uh for me anyway. So
1:01:40literally like the entire thing leading
1:01:42up to that is torture, emotional and
1:01:45physical whatever, child labor, all
1:01:47that. But then when you the the actual
1:01:48Trail of Lights ceremony itself was
1:01:50actually really beautiful. Like they had
1:01:52the entire facility line up in like two
1:01:54lines facing each other and they would
1:01:56have you blindfolded the entire day and
1:01:58they'd have you like doing like you
1:02:00you'd have to like follow PE follow
1:02:02staff members voice. They'd be like I'm
1:02:03over here and they'd be yelling and be
1:02:05like come find me with the voice and
1:02:06like they were like trying to make it
1:02:08like you have to trust your body and
1:02:09stuff like that. and just trust your
1:02:10instincts and stuff like that. And so we
1:02:13were blindfolded the entire day
1:02:15>> going through all these processes and
1:02:17including a process where our parents
1:02:19were told to write us eulogies or
1:02:21whatever as if we had died and we had to
1:02:24read them out loud. And so that was like
1:02:26to supposedly to symbolize that the old
1:02:29the old you was dead, the new burn to
1:02:32the ground phoenix. And then at the end
1:02:34of all that, they had the everybody on
1:02:36the facility line up and uh lines facing
1:02:38each other. And then they would have you
1:02:40like lean back and they had the also
1:02:42this thing in focus. They they play the
1:02:44song Ready to Fly or whatever. And they
1:02:45would have you like lift you up. They
1:02:47lift you up so like to simulate that you
1:02:49were flying and it would be like the
1:02:51graduation ceremony of the seminar. So
1:02:53they did that, but they they literally
1:02:55would crowd surf you till the end of the
1:02:56line and then when you got to the end of
1:02:58the line, they'd like put you down and
1:02:59then people that wanted to come say
1:03:01something how you inspired them and
1:03:02helped them in the program and how much
1:03:03they're going to miss you, they'd be
1:03:04able to come up and whisper that in your
1:03:06ear and then they would like take
1:03:07everybody away and be like, "Okay, okay,
1:03:09that's enough." And then they'd separate
1:03:10us all and then nobody would be able to
1:03:12talk to us until we like actually went
1:03:15home. But that part was beautiful for me
1:03:17because I actually touched a lot of
1:03:18people. I helped a lot of people. I was
1:03:21I I was like the [ __ ] definition of
1:03:24like somebody that never should have
1:03:25been able to graduate, never should have
1:03:27been able to get up in the levels. I
1:03:28graduate. I didn't want to make this
1:03:30about me, so I'm going to shut up in a
1:03:31second, but I rebelled. I rebelled for
1:03:34the first 12 months I was there. Like I
1:03:36almost got sent to Jamaica. Like I spent
1:03:38a lot of my time in intervention. Like I
1:03:40was literally the the definition of
1:03:41somebody that that probably never would
1:03:43have that's probably why they were so
1:03:44like happy when I graduated. Like the
1:03:47staff, they're like, "Oh my god, like
1:03:48we're going to be able to tell people
1:03:49about this." Like if they had stayed
1:03:51open, they would have been like
1:03:53marketing.
1:03:54>> They they literally would have been
1:03:55like, "Dude, this guy was like literally
1:03:57rebelled every [ __ ] day, getting
1:03:58removed every [ __ ] day for his first
1:04:00year." And then bang, he [ __ ] turned
1:04:02around and graduated. Well, [ __ ] that.
1:04:05But um but yeah, I got so by the time I
1:04:07graduated,
1:04:09>> even by the time I was on upper levels,
1:04:11I knew how the system worked and I knew
1:04:13how how powerless it felt to maybe be
1:04:16trying to work your program and people
1:04:18just hate you. So you just like get
1:04:20consequences
1:04:22and like I don't give a [ __ ] I'm level
1:04:24one zero points. Remove me. I don't
1:04:25[ __ ] care. Staff correct it. Like
1:04:27just move me. I I don't care. I don't
1:04:28have any points for the day. Who [ __ ]
1:04:30cares? So they just like I knew what it
1:04:32was like to do that and I knew what it
1:04:33was like to try and work your program
1:04:35but not be able to. So me instead of
1:04:37like I would call people out verbally
1:04:39for rule infractions just because of
1:04:42that that would show up and do what I
1:04:44need to do to get out of there. But 50%
1:04:47or more of the consequences at the end
1:04:49of the day I would literally sit them
1:04:50down with me and I'd be like coach them
1:04:52instead of giving them consequence and
1:04:54be like what did you do wrong? Like you
1:04:56knew it was wrong like just don't do
1:04:58that in the future. you know, I'm not
1:04:59going to be a hard ass. Like, I I just
1:05:01as long as you're if you're being a dick
1:05:03to me just to be a dick to me, I'm going
1:05:04to consequence you and staff correct it.
1:05:06Like, there's no cuz that's something
1:05:07against me personally. And it's like
1:05:09there's no reason to disrespect somebody
1:05:10like me especially who's going who
1:05:13levels with people who who's really not
1:05:14an [ __ ] when they work the pro the
1:05:16the the family that really actually like
1:05:18wants to try and like do what good they
1:05:21can do in a shitty ass place. And so, um
1:05:25I was different. And so, a lot of people
1:05:27looked up to me. a lot of the lower
1:05:28levels that struggled like would looked
1:05:29up to me and they were like, you know,
1:05:30like you gave me hope that I can get out
1:05:32of here like you give like and all this.
1:05:34So just telling me all that stuff and
1:05:36just so for me it was a really [ __ ]
1:05:38powerful experience that just that last
1:05:40[ __ ] part of it. But everything to
1:05:43get there like I'd never do that again.
1:05:45Like
1:05:45>> that that [ __ ] was [ __ ] crazy. But
1:05:48that Trail of Lights, man, that was
1:05:49something else. And that that like
1:05:51literally I've I've asked everybody I've
1:05:54interviewed almost like if they did a
1:05:56ceremony like that. none none of the
1:05:57other facilities did. And I it was I
1:06:01think it was unique of them, but also
1:06:03you could tell they didn't want people
1:06:05getting too like getting too much cuz
1:06:07like after a while at the end they would
1:06:09like say okay okay back up like stop
1:06:11touching him cuz you weren't allowed to
1:06:12touch like we weren't allowed to like
1:06:13touch each other and like hug each other
1:06:15or show any sort of emotion. So that one
1:06:18part at the end where you could show
1:06:19emotion and like give your grateful
1:06:21thanks to somebody that actually
1:06:22inspired you in the program like it was
1:06:25beautiful. It was really beautiful for
1:06:26me. But um
1:06:28>> that's amazing. And then you got out of
1:06:30there. So like what could be better?
1:06:33>> What's up?
1:06:34>> No, you said that's beautiful. And then
1:06:36like what could be more amazing than you
1:06:38getting out of there afterwards.
1:06:40>> Yeah. Yeah, it really was beautiful. Um
1:06:43but you know, I got right into hard drug
1:06:46use uh after I got out. But um that's a
1:06:48whole another story. Um
1:06:50they always said they always said I
1:06:52would too. They always said I would I
1:06:54would get into drugs. They always said
1:06:55that. I was
1:06:56>> But maybe you did because they said
1:06:58that. Have you ever thought about that?
1:06:59>> You're not kidding. Like literally in
1:07:01focus, which is the third seminar that
1:07:03you do, but it's also like one of the
1:07:05ones they they a lot people will say
1:07:07like it's pivotal to your program. Like
1:07:08if you don't do focus, you're not
1:07:09getting out of here. It doesn't matter
1:07:10how good you are, how the staff like
1:07:13you, like you have to at least do focus.
1:07:15Um, but uh, so there was a a part in
1:07:18that where they had us do what they
1:07:20called stretches, which was like kind of
1:07:21like pushing you out of your comfort
1:07:23zone and like making you like the point
1:07:25of it was to make you as uncomfortable
1:07:26as possible in as many ways as possible.
1:07:29>> We know we know how that feels.
1:07:31>> Yeah. So they um would assign you a
1:07:34role. Mine was Ricky Martin Live in
1:07:36Levita Loca. That was my song and I had
1:07:38to like dance and live and like dance
1:07:40like I was literally vicariously living
1:07:42in Lvita Loca. What do I do when I get
1:07:44out of the program? I [ __ ] live vita
1:07:46loca. I do hella [ __ ] [ __ ]
1:07:48>> Right. Right. It's it's what is it
1:07:50called? Like a whatever prophecy.
1:07:53A self-fulfilling prophecy.
1:07:56>> Thank you. Thank you.
1:07:57>> Literally. Literally. It's like you
1:07:59could have chosen any song for me and
1:08:01you had to chose choose that. Like there
1:08:03was like Woman in Red, a bunch of other
1:08:05songs. Like [ __ ]
1:08:06>> wow. Like it was [ __ ] crazy. But
1:08:09enough about me. But um but yeah. Um, so
1:08:13let's see. Hardest parts for you. Did
1:08:16you have any more hardest parts for you
1:08:18going there?
1:08:18>> I mean, yeah. Like all I It's so hard to
1:08:24explain because we went we underwent so
1:08:29much genuine I don't know what to call
1:08:33it like just mind fuckage. I mean, if
1:08:35you read
1:08:38um I'm blanking right now, but
1:08:42I'm sure I've rambled to Rachel about it
1:08:45and like a thousand times and she's
1:08:46like, "Okay, whatever, Kate." But if you
1:08:51They just [ __ ] with our head so bad in
1:08:53a way that like I and other people
1:08:57literally had no clue about until
1:09:02many years later. and mine happened to
1:09:04be 20 and like mine by just luck. Um
1:09:10because I would have gone to the grave
1:09:11with this. I literally would have never
1:09:13understood where my complex
1:09:16post-traumatic stress disorder came
1:09:18from.
1:09:19>> By design, probably. Yeah.
1:09:21>> What's that?
1:09:21>> By that's probably by design, too. They
1:09:24want you
1:09:24>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean,
1:09:26there's just like so many different ways
1:09:28to
1:09:30um
1:09:32so many different things.
1:09:34I digress.
1:09:35>> Okay. Okay. I just
1:09:37>> Okay. More things. Actually, I'm going
1:09:39to Okay. This is We talked about this a
1:09:41little bit more uh a little bit before.
1:09:43So, we had performing arts, which was
1:09:49like actually Rachel, I'm really
1:09:51interested to see what you have to say
1:09:53about this. So, I'm a musician. Um,
1:09:58nonpracticing, but you know, I've played
1:10:00the piano classically since I was age
1:10:03six. And I'm sorry, I'm losing my voice.
1:10:06I like fully was I had a cold and
1:10:08whatever. And it's like
1:10:11my whole body is a mess. Um,
1:10:14but part okay, onethird of the entire
1:10:18Hyde curriculum was this thing called
1:10:21performing arts. And what that consisted
1:10:24of is
1:10:27literally Cinon cult, like the Cinon
1:10:30cult dancing in unison. And we would
1:10:33wear, we had to wear these primary
1:10:36colored shirts.
1:10:37>> Sounds like the stretch process I was
1:10:39just talking about.
1:10:40>> What's that?
1:10:40>> That sounds like the stretch process I
1:10:42was just talking about.
1:10:43>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but like like I
1:10:49don't even know where to start with
1:10:50that, but I have so much
1:10:56I'm so unhappy and I can't go backwards
1:11:01and they're still doing it because the
1:11:03education sucks. But I come from too
1:11:08like from a very highly educated family
1:11:12like too much so that because I got in
1:11:14this position it was like very black
1:11:16sheep and I don't give a [ __ ] I love
1:11:18being black sheep and I love being a
1:11:20[ __ ] musician and I love being like
1:11:23crazy and just like you know having
1:11:26people like not accept me but um
1:11:30sorry give me a second.
1:11:34All right.
1:11:37Somebody help me.
1:11:39>> You were talking about the uh the uh
1:11:41>> Oh, PA. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So,
1:11:44anyway, we lost like
1:11:47so much of our education. I And I keep
1:11:50saying we because like I know I've
1:11:52talked to so many people um like dozens
1:11:55upon dozens. Um, but like in my own
1:11:59personal experience,
1:12:02there are things in my life that I still
1:12:05am just like I feel inadequate
1:12:09because I don't have an understanding or
1:12:12education in. And one thing in
1:12:14particular, and like Rachel, you
1:12:16obviously don't have this, but it's
1:12:18because you're it's it's your own will.
1:12:20It's not hide. um government.
1:12:24They would not allow us to
1:12:27like understand our own rights and like
1:12:30how our own government worked unless you
1:12:32made it to that senior year at least at
1:12:34the Bath Campus. And also like the
1:12:38people because not everybody went for
1:12:40more than you know a year or two or
1:12:43whatever. And so, however that
1:12:45corresponded with, you know, your public
1:12:47school system or whatever boarding
1:12:49school or private school or whatever you
1:12:51move on to, it really [ __ ] up that
1:12:55whole like they're just things that I
1:12:58have I had like for so long no
1:13:01understanding of. And like I'm a smart
1:13:04person and I would have to like sit at
1:13:06my family dinner table and like okay yes
1:13:09I would like fully choose the children
1:13:12anyway to sit at their table and play
1:13:14with. But I mean it was just like
1:13:17decades of
1:13:21not understanding
1:13:23important like world current issues
1:13:27because I didn't have that knowledge
1:13:29beforehand.
1:13:32Okay. So, it was hard for you to like
1:13:34reintegrate.
1:13:35>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
1:13:36>> Okay.
1:13:37>> Yeah. That's a whole different thing.
1:13:38But, um, the performing arts thing like
1:13:41I would I could not even extrapolate on
1:13:44more in my own situation. It was so
1:13:48traumatizing.
1:13:50It's kind of like the thing where my dad
1:13:52left me and I Jordan took up like a
1:13:57thousand more hours of
1:14:00your time than I needed to. But
1:14:04>> perform Rachel, let's talk about
1:14:06performing arts. You tell me about the
1:14:08Woodstock version. It's just all the
1:14:10[ __ ] same. Like I already know.
1:14:11There's no question. I was going to say,
1:14:12yeah, PA is pretty straightforward as
1:14:15far as like they they would make you do
1:14:17I remember um at the end of every school
1:14:20year, like the end of every what was it?
1:14:21I think it was like before every like
1:14:23break like Thanksgiving or whatever. Um
1:14:26there'd be like a PA show if I'm not
1:14:30misremembering.
1:14:31>> Wait, I have to cut you off because it
1:14:33was so traumatic for me. I have to like
1:14:35make this like as huge as possible. Go
1:14:37ahead.
1:14:38>> We have that [ __ ] like practically every
1:14:42day if not every day like like
1:14:46>> every other day, whatever.
1:14:47>> Called mandatory fun and make it be
1:14:50>> Oh, yes. Yes. Yes.
1:14:52>> Mandatory fun Mondays.
1:14:54>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it was
1:14:56Mondays, but it was like a Laura Gold
1:14:58thing. And you know, it's crazy.
1:15:00>> Oh, yeah. It Well, no, it definitely was
1:15:02cuz for the girls, she would also call
1:15:04it Manners Monday.
1:15:05We had that too as well. But at the same
1:15:08time, like in terms of our manners
1:15:11Monday, like it was no different um in
1:15:14terms of like what we got to wear.
1:15:17>> I mean, everything was like the same
1:15:18exact thing. So I don't even know why
1:15:20they call it like we
1:15:21>> Yeah. Whatever.
1:15:24>> But
1:15:24>> but I do remember that they would take
1:15:26us make us do solos and stuff. And I
1:15:29remember I would always like we weren't
1:15:31supposed to use the same song ever, but
1:15:34I remember I would just keep using the
1:15:36same song.
1:15:37>> Auditions. You're talking about
1:15:38auditions.
1:15:39>> Yeah. They'd make you get up there and
1:15:40like one by one sing a solo an entire
1:15:44song in front of your entire
1:15:46>> right there. That's where the entire
1:15:48>> Nobody does that in their entire life
1:15:50unless you opt to do that as an elective
1:15:53in a normal high school. But no,
1:15:55everyone has to get up there and perform
1:15:57a whole entire song.
1:16:00>> So I could go on forever.
1:16:02>> Stage fright.
1:16:03>> Literally,
1:16:04>> I have terrible stage fright and I would
1:16:06have that. I'm pretty sure like I am
1:16:09just by design meant to have panic
1:16:12attacks at this point because of like
1:16:13the amount of panic attacks I've had at
1:16:14that school. I would have one every
1:16:19>> Yeah. I don't I don't know if I could
1:16:20ever give it. I probably still would do
1:16:22it because it's for the cause. for the
1:16:24children and all that and that that
1:16:26outweighs like everything.
1:16:30But um literally like just giving
1:16:32speeches like doing that like if I was
1:16:34to go like if I got the opportunity to
1:16:36go present to like a thousand people I
1:16:38don't know if I could do that dude.
1:16:39>> Oh that's like in person like you want
1:16:42me to do that in person or
1:16:44>> that's what that was like our whole
1:16:45curriculum like we had to do that we had
1:16:47to like public speak all the [ __ ]
1:16:49time
1:16:50>> showing courage and humility.
1:16:52>> Yeah. And if you don't, you get in
1:16:54trouble. You like literally have to go
1:16:56out to work if you're not like speaking
1:16:58in a school meeting. Rachel, not to cut
1:17:00you off, but I know you know exactly
1:17:02like there's no difference here because
1:17:04like the curriculum and the hide [ __ ]
1:17:06was like exactly the same.
1:17:09>> Participation literally could mean what
1:17:13it to mean theirs. So like if you didn't
1:17:16speak enough, if you didn't look a
1:17:17certain way, if you didn't anything
1:17:20could be you're not participating
1:17:22enough.
1:17:23>> Yeah.
1:17:23>> They would do that in the seminars we
1:17:25went through. Like if you like So the
1:17:28first seminar I ever went through, I
1:17:30literally like because I knew how the
1:17:32system was working cuz I saw everything
1:17:35from like both sides like rebelling and
1:17:38like trying to work my program um to do
1:17:41whatever the [ __ ] I needed to do to get
1:17:42out of there. like um I knew that if I
1:17:45didn't stand right up and be one of the
1:17:47very first people to just stand up and
1:17:49be my name is Jordan von Ericson. I got
1:17:51sent here for A, B, and C. I dealt with
1:17:54this trauma as a child and I'm here to
1:17:57do this, this, this, and this. I knew if
1:17:59I didn't do that and put myself on the
1:18:01spot, they would put me on the hot seat
1:18:04and either and then ask me, "Why didn't
1:18:06you stand up before? Why are you lacking
1:18:08so much self-confidence that you
1:18:10couldn't stand up and introduce
1:18:11yourself?" Like, do you think you're so
1:18:13such such s so less of a person? Like,
1:18:15if you think you're so bad of a person,
1:18:17then I don't want you to be here. I'm
1:18:18choosing you out. Go back. Go back to
1:18:20your family and come back next week,
1:18:22next next time there's a seminar. They
1:18:24would literally choose you out of the
1:18:25seminar if you did not show up in enough
1:18:27or in the way they wanted to or like
1:18:29talk about what they wanted you to or
1:18:30show enough emotion that they wanted you
1:18:32to or any of that. So, I just like I
1:18:35knew what I had to do. But for a lot of
1:18:37people like they would get called out
1:18:38and literally chosen out of the seminar
1:18:40if they weren't showing up or doing
1:18:41things the way the staff expected them
1:18:43to. And there was no expectation of what
1:18:46like they would give you like rules for
1:18:48the seminar but they wouldn't give you
1:18:50like actual expectations that you were
1:18:52measurable for you to be like okay I
1:18:54need to do A B and C to make sure and
1:18:56for sure get through this seminar. Like
1:18:58there was no guarantee
1:18:59>> yeah to start from.
1:19:02>> Yeah it was. So, I'm just seeing the
1:19:04similarities between that and the the
1:19:06way they would structure the seminars.
1:19:08>> It's crazy when you really like talk to
1:19:10other people from other programs and
1:19:12then see how similar, but like
1:19:14everything seems to have its own
1:19:16buzzword for its own.
1:19:18>> Yes.
1:19:18>> Yeah. They just have different names.
1:19:20>> Yeah. They're all the same thing, but
1:19:22ours
1:19:23>> and yours may just be called something
1:19:25completely different.
1:19:26>> Exactly. And that's how they cover up
1:19:28the abuse and like something I I had to
1:19:30do a lot of like weird things and
1:19:31research and like archiving and like
1:19:34just I don't know. I was so fascinated
1:19:36with like what all of us went through
1:19:39when I finally like woke up and was like
1:19:42dude I just read an article from 1973
1:19:46called something to the effect of
1:19:48sometimes Rachel what is it like you
1:19:50have to like sometimes you have to slap
1:19:52a child like I mean it just was
1:19:55accepted. A slap may be just what a
1:19:58child needs.
1:19:59>> Exactly. And like that was the thing
1:20:02that woke me up. Um and I know I'm going
1:20:05off on like a different tangent than I
1:20:07even meant to go on. Um and I definitely
1:20:10did. So you're going to have to remind
1:20:12me again where I'm going with this.
1:20:14Well, I mean that that created a
1:20:15loophole for people that wanted to abuse
1:20:17children to abuse children in places
1:20:18like this because it's just like child
1:20:20rearing is acceptable and people don't
1:20:23really like back in the day like I got
1:20:25spanked as a kid. Like there's a lot of
1:20:26kids that never got spanked like growing
1:20:28up these days like literally like not
1:20:30and I I don't wish spanking on any
1:20:32child. I don't think any sort of child
1:20:33abuse emotionally, physically is is
1:20:36right or justified. But back in the day
1:20:39when these programs started sin on and
1:20:40all that like that was a more acceptable
1:20:42thing which gives these [ __ ]
1:20:45predators loopholes to then exploit the
1:20:48system and create programs like this
1:20:49where it's like oh yeah your child got
1:20:51hit. They could even probably I know in
1:20:53Cinnon like they they made it well known
1:20:55we we hit kids like we we abuse kids.
1:20:58>> Oh yeah.
1:20:59>> They flat out said that.
1:21:00>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:21:00>> Like if your child's acting up they're
1:21:02going to get smacked like
1:21:04>> you know like
1:21:05>> and a lot of Absolutely. And like so
1:21:07many like so many of the probably like
1:21:10almost all of the religious programs.
1:21:12Yeah.
1:21:12>> Oh yeah. Totally. Because they're not
1:21:14good in right. They're not they're not
1:21:16right in God's eyes. So God God is
1:21:19>> [ __ ] insane.
1:21:20>> Yeah. They're literally insane. Yeah.
1:21:22They just use religion to justify all
1:21:24the abuse and all these other programs
1:21:26just use loopholes and a bunch of other
1:21:28[ __ ] to justify the abuse. Like
1:21:30>> Exactly. And also be able to like get
1:21:32away from state regulation with the
1:21:34religious stuff. They just go to the
1:21:35places that are le least regulated like
1:21:37Utah and Idaho and Montana and stuff
1:21:40like that.
1:21:40>> Yep. Southern states definitely.
1:21:43>> Yep. Yep.
1:21:45>> Yep. No, they all do.
1:21:48>> Where were we?
1:21:50>> You were talking about uh what the
1:21:53hardest parts of being there for you
1:21:55were. Um
1:21:56>> like besides everything. Okay. Actually
1:21:58have a story. So, like I wouldn't say
1:22:00this was like the hardest part because I
1:22:03can't I can't even like I I can't do
1:22:06that, but I can like recall such
1:22:10specific factual things that I
1:22:13experienced that are notable. And like I
1:22:15also want to point out like so many
1:22:18programs have had documentaries or
1:22:20whatever whatever and we have not yet.
1:22:24Um, and that's something, you know, I've
1:22:27not discussed with pretty much anyone
1:22:30minus like one person that isn't Rachel.
1:22:33And by the way, stop giving Rachel [ __ ]
1:22:36Anybody that listens to this, um,
1:22:42give me a sec.
1:22:47>> Yeah, you have to give me a reminder.
1:22:49Literally, this is what you have to do
1:22:51to protect your mind from being in the
1:22:54discovery groups.
1:22:57>> What is
1:22:59>> like literally just zone out like
1:23:01disassociate?
1:23:02>> Yeah, that's why I keep asking for so
1:23:05many reminders.
1:23:06>> No, you're fine. Um, what like if you
1:23:09could go like if you could go in a time
1:23:11machine and like
1:23:12>> Oh,
1:23:13>> not go through what you went through
1:23:14knowing what you know now, would you?
1:23:16But knowing what you know now, not just
1:23:18like you you could go through it and
1:23:19never experience it. Like if you if you
1:23:21didn't know what you know now, would you
1:23:22decide to not go through the program or
1:23:24would you just do it all over again?
1:23:26Personally, I would still go back, but I
1:23:29would just do so much more to fight back
1:23:31against this like right when I got back
1:23:33out of the program. Like I probably
1:23:35would have [ __ ] filed a lawsuit like
1:23:38right after I got out of the program for
1:23:39multiple different things. like probably
1:23:41probably sue for every single thing I
1:23:43could imagine that that that happened to
1:23:45me while I was there and just do a lot
1:23:47of things differently. What about you?
1:23:48Like would you go through it again or
1:23:50would you just like [ __ ] that, I'm never
1:23:52going back?
1:23:52>> I would say [ __ ] that. Not because of
1:23:54like the misery that like was there
1:23:56because like honestly for me and I a lot
1:23:59of people that I've talked to the misery
1:24:02and torture and abandonment and fear and
1:24:08everything else happened as a result
1:24:11afterwards
1:24:13um with the hide stuff because they mind
1:24:15us mind [ __ ] us so bad. So I'm going
1:24:18actually like be super add and go back
1:24:20to the other thing that I blanked out.
1:24:23So, this is actually if if it's okay,
1:24:24this is just like a story that I
1:24:26remember. Um, I mean that I went
1:24:28through, but like I feel like is an
1:24:31important
1:24:33thing to talk about or just like point
1:24:35out or the fact that I have the floor
1:24:38right now even though I'm being a mess.
1:24:40Like a lot of us don't know
1:24:45the other [ __ ] that like the other hide
1:24:48people went through at the time. And so
1:24:51when we like reconnect with each other,
1:24:53at least me and my bath people,
1:24:56it's like, oh my [ __ ] god, we had no
1:24:59idea back then, but we went through all
1:25:02these like same things. Um, so, okay,
1:25:05>> so a traumatic thing that I hated was I
1:25:08hate running. Like they made everybody
1:25:11do track. um track sucked and it was
1:25:16really just to like torture you and say,
1:25:20you know, you're not working on your
1:25:21best or whatever. Anyway, I have like
1:25:24well I still have like very flat feet,
1:25:26meaning just like they're normal, but
1:25:27like I don't have like big arch. And so
1:25:31I used to use that all the time, but
1:25:35even though it was it was true, but like
1:25:37I would point it out all the time and be
1:25:39like, "Look, I can't ride hund I can't
1:25:42do hide track running around this
1:25:44[ __ ] stupid track like 85 times." So
1:25:48there was a separate team or whatever
1:25:50that they would put you on so you
1:25:53wouldn't have to run so it wouldn't look
1:25:55bad like whatever whatever. And so they
1:26:00would torture us between, you know,
1:26:02normal things like for example shot put
1:26:05or or whatever. I remember here's the
1:26:08part of the story I'm trying to get to.
1:26:09Please like literally some of these
1:26:11things you've got to cut out because
1:26:13nobody's going to like stay tuned
1:26:15through this much.
1:26:17>> Yeah. I'm just going to give you a copy
1:26:18of the video and you can just tell me
1:26:19what you want me.
1:26:20>> Perfect. Okay. So this one time they
1:26:24took us and us being our like nonrunn
1:26:31like injured team or whatever from track
1:26:34at hide bath and they threw us in well
1:26:39she threw us in like one of those blue
1:26:42vans and took black bind I gota start
1:26:46again.
1:26:47Rachel have I told you this before?
1:26:49>> Rachel, are you still there?
1:26:53I think she she dropped out. She should
1:26:55be right back.
1:26:55>> That's okay. That's okay. All right.
1:26:57Let's start again. Okay. So, all right.
1:27:00One of the big things and there's so
1:27:02many.
1:27:05>> Sorry. The major things that are like
1:27:06the most important are the ones that I
1:27:08really struggle with articulating
1:27:10because this again is my first podcast.
1:27:13Yeah.
1:27:14>> Um,
1:27:16so like the injured people cuz like
1:27:18sports were like such a big deal at Hyde
1:27:21and you know part of the curriculum or
1:27:23whatever and if you're not showing
1:27:24effort there, you're not showing effort
1:27:26at other places and therefore you're
1:27:29never going to get out of there. So, um,
1:27:35like they put me on the injured team
1:27:37because I very happily like showed all
1:27:40this paperwork that was like I have low
1:27:42arches or whatever.
1:27:44>> Um, and so this one like not exhide
1:27:49person, just an old alumni that was that
1:27:53came that never technically graduated
1:27:55from what we just talked about with
1:27:57Rachel. that that whole bizarre
1:27:59experience that honestly I liken to like
1:28:04baptism in a very intense way. Um, our
1:28:07place was really like it really seems
1:28:10now so much religious, but she took us
1:28:12and took black blindfold blindfolds.
1:28:18I'm literally blanking this out. Okay,
1:28:20we got to start again.
1:28:22>> Blindfolds,
1:28:24>> right? So
1:28:27bug. All right. So this,
1:28:35>> give me a sec. I'm doing moch yoga
1:28:37meditation.
1:28:39>> I love this. And right now, Laura Gald
1:28:43and all of you people, Malcolm,
1:28:47this is what you [ __ ] cause.
1:28:51All right, so let's nail it.
1:28:54So, this woman named Jillian Klene who
1:28:57was
1:28:59like, you know, had been sent to hide in
1:29:03the late 80s or 90s or whatever, came
1:29:07back because for whatever reason, and
1:29:10it's not her fault. Like, I'm sure she
1:29:12was obviously manipulated, her parents
1:29:14were [ __ ] with or whatever. like you
1:29:17know Jillian needs to like absolutely go
1:29:19back and like her future cannot go
1:29:22forward unless she like goes and takes
1:29:25like the hide oath or whatever. So she
1:29:27was one of god knows how many people
1:29:31that you know ended up and like really
1:29:34felt inadequate and and me too me too as
1:29:37well for a while like I felt inadequate
1:29:40like something was missing because I had
1:29:42not received or tried to get you know
1:29:46that high diploma like everything that
1:29:48in my life that is going wrong anyway.
1:29:50So, she had been a person that came back
1:29:52as like, you know, a hide person at
1:29:56whatever age. And she was a [ __ ]
1:29:58[ __ ] She was a [ __ ] [ __ ] And she
1:30:02had to be anyway, but she still was. And
1:30:05so she was in charge of like the injured
1:30:07group. And so she took black
1:30:11blindfolds.
1:30:12>> Yeah.
1:30:13>> And um
1:30:15like made us put them on.
1:30:20I'm taking deep breaths like like yoga
1:30:22style.
1:30:23>> Don't leave on.
1:30:24>> No, cuz uh you told me that thing about
1:30:27from before like don't even worry about
1:30:30what people think like
1:30:32>> Yeah, you're not.
1:30:34>> So the black blindfold, she took us in a
1:30:36hide van.
1:30:37>> Yeah.
1:30:38>> Like me and this kid Jake
1:30:40and
1:30:45that's the one I remember the most cuz
1:30:47he got dropped off before I did.
1:30:50And so anyway, they took us and we were
1:30:52blindfolded to like disorient us.
1:30:55>> So they would drop us like on the edge
1:30:58of like this like random road in Maine,
1:31:01Mid Coast Maine. Um and we would have no
1:31:04idea where we were going, like
1:31:06directions. Plus I suck at any kind of
1:31:09like geographical stuff.
1:31:11>> Yeah.
1:31:12>> Um but we would all be like spaced out.
1:31:14So,
1:31:16um, like Jake would get off at one point
1:31:20and another one, another kid. Oh my god,
1:31:23I [ __ ] love this kid. And I [ __ ]
1:31:25hope he's alive. I think he is, but
1:31:27there's so many of us that are gone. Um,
1:31:29but this guy Bo, he was like definitely
1:31:31in there, too. Um,
1:31:34they would drop us off like a certain
1:31:36amount of whatever.
1:31:39[ __ ] I have to edit this, but shoot.
1:31:42Like we didn't know where we were.
1:31:45Like anything could have happened to any
1:31:48of us.
1:31:49>> Yeah.
1:31:50>> Like they're a [ __ ] redneck. I'm not
1:31:52trying to be dramatic cuz I'm actually
1:31:54not crying. Like I got almost teary for
1:31:56a second, but I don't [ __ ] do that
1:31:58because I'm too much of a [ __ ] badass
1:32:00because they made me so so much of a
1:32:04terrible like mean person there. But we
1:32:07didn't know where we were going. We
1:32:09didn't know if there was going to like
1:32:12have like scary like creepy
1:32:16random manners that worked at like Bath
1:32:19Iron Works or like wherever. Okay. Yeah,
1:32:22you're going to laugh now. And and like
1:32:26we just had to like make our way back
1:32:28and I just remember like the the point
1:32:30of that is like who [ __ ] cares? Like
1:32:32I I love the woods. Like I love nature.
1:32:36I'm not like a city child. I love that.
1:32:39But like the mentality and the
1:32:42intentional
1:32:47everything to disorient us and to make
1:32:50us miserable, put us in a mode where our
1:32:53systems are literally on like [ __ ] I
1:32:57don't even know what to explain. I mean,
1:32:59it's like the same exact thing I feel
1:33:01right now, but it's, you know, just to
1:33:04keep us in fear. So that was like a
1:33:05really [ __ ] thing. Anyway, oh wait,
1:33:07wait, wait, one more thing. So we got
1:33:10This is going to sound so terrible. So
1:33:12we got back I got back. Who knows like
1:33:15whenever who else got back, but I got
1:33:17back to the dining hall and made it
1:33:19there. It's now I think called the Joe
1:33:22or that might be whatever. And I see
1:33:26Jillian Klein and she's just like
1:33:28[ __ ] chowing food like literally
1:33:32hunched over like horse shoveling
1:33:35whatever she's eating
1:33:38as she just like has dead eyes and you
1:33:40know watches me walk in like no big
1:33:43deal. I just literally left this like,
1:33:46you know, 15, 16 year old on the side of
1:33:49the road and
1:33:52this [ __ ] little blonde chick. I
1:33:54don't want to say little, like just like
1:33:56this blonde chick with like
1:33:58an attitude, but like I mean
1:34:03anything could have happened. Like I
1:34:06literally I'm gonna finish after this
1:34:09finish in terms of this this sentence,
1:34:11but like
1:34:13I don't mean to be judgmental, but Mid
1:34:16Coast Maine, how it was back then and to
1:34:19some point now, it is not safe. Yeah,
1:34:23>> it's not [ __ ] safe. And I'm not
1:34:26trying to be a [ __ ] Like, yes, I come
1:34:28from like a very waspy background, but
1:34:31as a girl that grew up
1:34:35having people look at my body and like
1:34:38judge me
1:34:40by how I look and whatever, never look
1:34:44like deeper than that.
1:34:47It I already just like blanked out, so
1:34:50let's not let's not even go there. Um, I
1:34:53could have easily been like so [ __ ]
1:34:55>> Yeah. and very,
1:34:58>> you know, there we've only heard of like
1:35:01a few incidences where this has happened
1:35:04and on campus or whatever. It's a whole
1:35:07different diet tribe. So, I'm sorry that
1:35:10was so long. Let's move on.
1:35:13>> Okay.
1:35:14>> Like those [ __ ] blindfolded us.
1:35:17All right. Okay. Let's go. Um,
1:35:21>> what h like how was reintegration into
1:35:24society and what do you struggle with
1:35:25the most today as a result of being at
1:35:27high
1:35:30>> um reintegration into society for me?
1:35:33>> Was there not any
1:35:35>> Hold on. I'm so sorry. It's just started
1:35:37raining in New England and I'm I'm
1:35:39outside. I got to move inside.
1:35:41>> Wait, you're in New England?
1:35:43>> Yeah.
1:35:44>> That's sick.
1:35:46>> Is it? I'm not always in New England,
1:35:48but I am right now. Like there's some
1:35:50like a lot of stuff going on right now.
1:35:53>> Am I like um
1:35:55>> that's outside of America, right?
1:35:57>> No, no, no. New England is literally
1:35:59like Connecticut, New Jersey, New York.
1:36:02>> Yeah,
1:36:03>> like Massachusetts.
1:36:05>> I thought you were like in England. I
1:36:06was like, that's sick, dude. I want to
1:36:08[ __ ] go to Europe.
1:36:08>> No, I know. But like England is
1:36:11wonderful.
1:36:13Um,
1:36:15all right. Bring me back to home base.
1:36:17Were you in
1:36:17>> reint like how was reintegration into
1:36:19society or was was there any?
1:36:22>> Okay. So, um, there still hasn't been
1:36:24any that's been like okay. Um, no, I'm
1:36:28kidding. There was I was okay in my 20s,
1:36:31but so I can I was one of the very very
1:36:35very lucky few to be able to convince my
1:36:39parents to take me out of hide. um after
1:36:43my junior year. And that's why I was
1:36:45asking before. I'm like, "Oh my god, can
1:36:47I start with my um letters, but we don't
1:36:50want that right now." Plus, my voice is
1:36:52so raspy. Anyway, um I ended up going to
1:36:57a regular boarding school my senior
1:36:59year, um also in New England in America.
1:37:04And I got to
1:37:07um play the piano again and like become
1:37:10myself
1:37:12and remind myself like in a way just
1:37:15like doing the things that I used to do
1:37:18and being close to
1:37:22I don't know how to say this like the
1:37:23academia
1:37:26>> that I was used to like being surrounded
1:37:28by but like didn't really fit into cuz I
1:37:31was like creative or whatever. Um,
1:37:35so I went to boarding school there. I
1:37:38remember hitting a [ __ ] fan, just
1:37:40like hitting [ __ ] in January
1:37:44of whatever year. And
1:37:50I think that that was like
1:37:53I don't know what that was but that was
1:37:55something that just like ricocheted and
1:37:57like happened over and over and over and
1:38:00over until you know like late 30s like
1:38:0540ish.
1:38:06Um,
1:38:08but I got to play the piano again and I
1:38:11missed two years, but like I did really
1:38:13really well and my self-confidence was
1:38:15awesome because I like won these piano
1:38:18awards and like silver cups and I was
1:38:20like, "Oh my god, I get to like go back
1:38:22to my childhood." But um, that's what
1:38:24happened there.
1:38:27And like college is a whole different
1:38:29thing.
1:38:32>> Okay. And what was the hardest part?
1:38:35What do you struggle with the most is um
1:38:37like from being sent there?
1:38:42>> Where's art?
1:38:44>> Um
1:38:48I I think Rachel dropped out, but I
1:38:52literally
1:38:52>> Message her on Facebook, too. Maybe her
1:38:54phone died or something.
1:38:55>> No, no, no, no. She's probably like, I
1:38:56haven't had enough of Kate. Like, she's
1:38:59pro. I hope she's doing something more
1:39:00fun. No, no, no. Something happened.
1:39:02It's not a big deal. Um,
1:39:08I guess the answer to that would be a
1:39:10little bit different from right now
1:39:13today
1:39:14um
1:39:16than from,
1:39:18you know, 6 months ago or
1:39:22a different period of time. Um,
1:39:27let let's just like let me do therapy
1:39:30first and then I'll get back to you on
1:39:31that. But I think that recently
1:39:36like a relationship has been very
1:39:39difficult. Um and just learn like how
1:39:42it's reflected you know my own fears and
1:39:46insecurities and just like whatever you
1:39:49want to say. Um trust issues everything
1:39:53in the world like things became really
1:39:56like like uprooted and messed up for me.
1:39:59And I mean, it's all the stuff that
1:40:03was caused by the TTI. And so, you know,
1:40:07I'm usually really good at
1:40:09relationships. Like, I have amazing
1:40:11friends. Um, I definitely like still
1:40:14isolate so much, which is a thing. But
1:40:17now that I know that there's like other
1:40:19people out here, it's amazing. But I
1:40:22would say relationships with
1:40:25heterosexual men that are attractive is
1:40:29my biggest.
1:40:32I'm just going to say that.
1:40:34>> Okay.
1:40:38>> No, it's so [ __ ] true. And I don't
1:40:40even [ __ ] want that. Like,
1:40:44cut that out. You go.
1:40:46>> Okay. Um,
1:40:48is there anything else you want people
1:40:49to know about your experience or
1:40:51anything that you might tell a parent
1:40:52thinking about sending their kid to a
1:40:53place like this?
1:40:55>> Yes. Number one, if it's apparent,
1:40:58despite me probably just sounding super
1:41:04a mess, I was one day um
1:41:10I worked at Ch Rosemary Hall as an
1:41:13admissions officer. And I think that I
1:41:16the only point of me saying that is that
1:41:18I feel like I have a very unique way of
1:41:22looking at the TTI versus regular
1:41:27boarding schools. um I have been in both
1:41:30worlds and you know right now I'm
1:41:33struggling with you know the TTI world
1:41:36but at the same time I grew up like
1:41:39welps with higher education if I just
1:41:43want to like if parents have any any any
1:41:47question like I'm such a good person to
1:41:51try to hunt down I will tell you exactly
1:41:55as it is there are so many parents out
1:41:57there that are just Obviously, everybody
1:41:59wants, you know, the best for their kid,
1:42:02but I will be honest with you and I will
1:42:04tell you what is [ __ ] and I will
1:42:06tell you what is actually like a good
1:42:08education. I guess that's one thing.
1:42:12Um
1:42:20um my puppy's
1:42:23over there. Um,
1:42:26the other thing I would want to know or
1:42:28at least ask is, is there any way that
1:42:30you would be able to like maybe post or
1:42:34connect like a piece of my playing the
1:42:37piano from pre-TGTI to this?
1:42:40>> Yeah, I could put that at the beginning
1:42:41of the video or something.
1:42:42>> All right, [ __ ] That's all that's all
1:42:44I can think of.
1:42:47>> Okay. Well, thank you for coming on the
1:42:50show. I really appreciate you giving
1:42:52your time and uh maybe we can do a part
1:42:54two and focus on the letters or whatever
1:42:56you want to do. And um thank you guys
1:42:58for tuning in. Uh please make sure you
1:43:00like the video. Um subscribe, comment,
1:43:03uh everything helps the algorithm and we
1:43:05will catch you on the next one.
1:43:07>> Also, the next time I'm on here with
1:43:09Rachel because we want to do like
1:43:11another thing. I'm going to be 110%
1:43:14better. This is like literally my first
1:43:16try. But Jordan, thank you so much.
1:43:19>> I think you did good. Yeah, no problem.
1:43:21I think you did really good. And so when
1:43:24I'm done with this, I'm going to send it
1:43:25to you and then you can just tell me
1:43:26just give me timestamps of what you want
1:43:28me to edit out and I'll do
1:43:29>> perfection. And don't rush. Literally,
1:43:32you're too amazing. like you sell
1:43:34yourself short and I already told you
1:43:36this before and like just knowing that
1:43:39Rachel is
1:43:42so like she has said so so many times to
1:43:46me like this is a person you like
1:43:49nobody's going to [ __ ] with this guy
1:43:51like this guy is gold and like taking
1:43:55that I already know this but like taking
1:43:57that from Rachel is like a big big thing
1:44:00so I I want you to like remember that
1:44:03every single time you are sorry if this
1:44:06is too much but if like you're tough on
1:44:08yourself you're like I'm not fighting
1:44:11the TTI like like fast enough or like
1:44:14hard enough or like there people just
1:44:17whatever like out of all of us you know
1:44:21we all have unique voices and like
1:44:24levels of helping but Jordan my god you
1:44:28have put out I don't even know how many
1:44:31podcasts Yes. Almost 200.
1:44:34>> Yes. That's insane. That's insane. I
1:44:36would not even be able to put out like
1:44:39like 0.00001%
1:44:41number that I didn't even know. And so I
1:44:44just
1:44:46I don't know. We have a lot of things to
1:44:47talk about and and also with that
1:44:49surprise. Ooh, maybe we could get that
1:44:52surprise witness on here.
1:44:53>> I know. I' I've been thinking I want to
1:44:55collaborate with
1:44:56>> [ __ ] Let's do it. We would like between
1:44:58Dude, if we if we teamed up,
1:45:00>> she and I would be literally
1:45:02unstoppable.
1:45:03>> Oh my god. Let's do it. Let's do it.
1:45:05Let's do it now.
1:45:07>> Yeah. I want to I want to like um bang
1:45:09her email line or something like that,
1:45:11you know?
1:45:12>> Do it. She's Yeah, we
1:45:14>> I think she'd be interested, too, cuz
1:45:16she exposes corruption and [ __ ] like
1:45:18that.
1:45:18>> Exactly. Yeah, she actually like she's
1:45:21she's somebody that would actually like
1:45:22pull up the documents documentation and
1:45:25like read court cases and like all that
1:45:28and even like you know like interpret it
1:45:31for for the lay crowd you know like that
1:45:33might not cuz there's a lot of stuff
1:45:34that she does say that's like more in
1:45:36like law speak but then she tries to
1:45:38like break it down into like something
1:45:40can digest easier. Yeah.
1:45:42>> And Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. just to go like if
1:45:44it's okay to just go like ramble about
1:45:47that surprise witness for a second.
1:45:49>> Yeah.
1:45:50>> Because um I don't even know where to
1:45:52start. Like when hide school survivors
1:45:56and the people went there got the
1:45:59attention of that surprise witness. Um,
1:46:03was she what? Actually, can I can I get
1:46:05you to like explain exactly who that
1:46:07that is in terms of like the
1:46:09significance or whatever?
1:46:11>> Who that spre? Oh, she she's a um
1:46:15>> she she has a law degree. Um I I can't
1:46:18remember exactly what law school she
1:46:19went to, but a pretty prestigious one. I
1:46:21think it might be
1:46:22>> she went to UPEN and then also she also
1:46:25is started the free Britney movement.
1:46:28>> Yeah. So, and she quit her her law job
1:46:30because literally they were trying to be
1:46:32like, "You need to shut up about
1:46:33Britney." Like, it's conservatorship.
1:46:36They're like, "You need to stop talking
1:46:37about it." And she's like, "Oh, I need
1:46:38to stop talking about it. Okay, I quit.
1:46:40I'm going to keep talking about it and
1:46:41be even louder now." Right.
1:46:43>> Like, yeah. No,
1:46:44>> she sticks to her own [ __ ] and is like,
1:46:47"You know what? [ __ ] you. I was in my
1:46:49pen law class and like who gives a
1:46:52shit?" And Yeah. Yeah. She focuses on
1:46:55like conservatorship. Sorry, my Hush, my
1:46:59puppies are like, this will be an
1:47:01afterthought, like part of the the
1:47:03podcast. But, you know, the thing that
1:47:06the only thing that is like annoying to
1:47:08me, not with her, but with like the
1:47:10public,
1:47:12because they have, you know, an easy way
1:47:15of saying, "Oh my god, look at that
1:47:17surprise witness." And she has, you
1:47:20know, these adorable little like like
1:47:21this pink headband with like cute bunny
1:47:24fluff things. And what I
1:47:28just it infuriates me that people and I
1:47:31understand they can't understand she
1:47:33like she literally does that so she
1:47:37doesn't get sued and so she has to say
1:47:40this is like edu what is it called like
1:47:42>> yeah this is for educational purposes
1:47:44please don't comment or harass anybody
1:47:46my videos yeah education and at the same
1:47:49time I'm like dude second in her lo okay
1:47:53anyway she's amazing
1:47:54>> yeah she's she was second in her ass.
1:47:55Like she's super she is straight up
1:47:57unfuckwittable. Like people that like
1:48:00there's there's people that have tried
1:48:01to come up against her, realize who she
1:48:03is, and just pretty like there have been
1:48:05people that have sued her and lost.
1:48:08>> Like they keep on losing. I think she's
1:48:10in some court cases right now for a
1:48:11bunch of [ __ ] that she didn't even
1:48:13say. Literally people try and take they
1:48:15can't [ __ ] with her, so they try and
1:48:17take what she says out of context and
1:48:19use it against her.
1:48:20>> Right. What she does is she turns around
1:48:22and literally reacts to the entire video
1:48:24and is like, "No, that's not what I
1:48:25meant. If you were to watch the whole
1:48:26video, you would clearly see that this
1:48:29is what I actually meant. It's very
1:48:31[ __ ] clearly defined. I did not tell
1:48:33anybody to go and harass anybody.
1:48:35Anybody that's doing that, I actually
1:48:37condemn them." Like you like, you know,
1:48:40like she she's unfuckwittable. Like I
1:48:42think honestly
1:48:42>> No, exactly. Unfuckwittable. Yeah. No,
1:48:46keep going. I didn't mean to interrupt.
1:48:47I'm just like so
1:48:48>> enthusiastic. Yeah. I I think that's
1:48:50>> both of us know each other. Like I love
1:48:54that [ __ ] woman.
1:48:55>> Yeah. Yeah. She's awesome. I watch her
1:48:57videos all the time. So I have something
1:48:59else in the box, but then I'm also I've
1:49:00thought about reaching out to her for a
1:49:02while. I think I actually have reached
1:49:03out to her in comments, but I need to
1:49:05actually, you know, hit her [ __ ]
1:49:07email, her personal email.
1:49:08>> Do it. She She will respond. The last
1:49:11time I talked to her was like maybe a
1:49:13year and a halfish ago. But like when
1:49:16she is hyperfocused and on a certain
1:49:20thing, which she absolutely was with
1:49:22Sher's son Elijah,
1:49:24>> um, Almond, and I mean,
1:49:27>> she
1:49:30>> Yeah, I think I can get her fired up
1:49:31about this. Like, honestly, honestly, if
1:49:33I just send her my channel link and be
1:49:34like, "Look, I've done like almost 200
1:49:36interviews. If you don't believe what
1:49:37I'm saying, just go there and watch
1:49:39some."
1:49:39>> No, no, no. She'll believe you. Oh my
1:49:41god.
1:49:41>> I know she will. I know she will. But
1:49:43it'll I think it'll get her even more
1:49:44fired up if she sees how much work I've
1:49:46done already and be like, "Oh yeah, this
1:49:47guy's actually really out here doing
1:49:49something, you know,
1:49:50>> and I think it would be good for both of
1:49:51us." And I think that we could actually
1:49:54like help each other cuz she she knows
1:49:56so much about the law that I I want to
1:49:59pick her brain spec specifically
1:50:01regarding the TTI. I don't want to talk
1:50:02about that too much here cuz I don't
1:50:03want to [ __ ] you know, give away too
1:50:05much, but just know that that's probably
1:50:07in the future here
1:50:09>> on the channel. I'm I'm working on
1:50:10branching out and like collaborating
1:50:12with other bigger creators, but also
1:50:14bigger creators that [ __ ] like
1:50:16actually are gonna have some integrity
1:50:19>> and not, you know, [ __ ] with my [ __ ]
1:50:22like
1:50:22>> right there. And we talked about this
1:50:24before, like, yeah, anything I can do to
1:50:28help. And we also talked about this
1:50:30before before, but like
1:50:34you're doing good [ __ ] work.
1:50:36>> Thank you. Appreciate Also, I didn't
1:50:38have a sailor mouth before I went to the
1:50:40hide school, but um I just am going with
1:50:46it right now. You know what I mean? Like
1:50:47after 20 plus years of being in silence
1:50:52and even like in my own brain being
1:50:56completely
1:50:58not knowing. So anyway, you rock. We
1:51:00have to do this again
1:51:02>> and
1:51:04>> I'll talk to you later.
1:51:05>> All right. You have a wonderful night.
1:51:06Thank you guys so much for watching.
1:51:08Yeah, no problem. And uh just make sure
1:51:10you interact with the video and we will
1:51:11catch you on the next one.

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