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The Ancients Glitched Reality: Psyops Entities & Consciousness | Chase Hughes — Transcript

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0:00I I don't think we're conscious. I think
0:03we're consciousness. The first hermetic
0:06principle is basically saying like when
0:08when they say the all is mind, the
0:10universe is mental. Um is basically
0:13saying like this is one thing. There's
0:15no separation. You're not separate. But
0:17it feels like there is an anti- uh
0:20spiritual or an anti- or consciousness
0:23suppression movement.
0:25>> Yeah. I was actually uh pleasantly
0:27surprised to see that you had a whole
0:29video on the topic of UFO disclosure in
0:33SCOPS. The goal of a SCOP is to shift
0:37the perception, not the belief, the
0:40perception initially and then the
0:42context. And SCOPS is usually the truth
0:46or a thing that is true. And and most
0:49people confuse something that is true
0:51with the truth. And those are very
0:54different things. And the moment that
0:55they started pushing that stuff, like I
0:59skyrocketed into this other dimension,
1:01instantly there was like a hand pressing
1:03my head back and there were four or five
1:06beings standing around the bed. It was
1:08onlogical shock. Massive onlogical
1:12shock.
1:13>> Did the beings have a discernable look
1:15to them?
1:16>> My eyes were pushed back, but when I
1:19looked, it was kind of a mantis.
1:22>> Wow. like kind of a creature. And the
1:24weird thing is I have a a praying mantis
1:28phobia and I I had no fear of these
1:31beings.
1:36You're somebody who's known to be
1:38interested in the mind in in various
1:40ways. And I think most people consider
1:42you an expert on various topics, you
1:45know, psychology, behavior, persuasion,
1:48all of these different things. But it
1:50seems to me where where you and I really
1:52start to overlap,
1:54though I am interested in all those
1:55things of course, like how can you not
1:58be interested in those things, but I
2:00think where you and I really start to
2:01overlap is our interest in where these
2:03things go a level deeper into some of
2:07the primary questions around
2:09consciousness.
2:10>> Yeah.
2:10>> What's going on here? What's the nature
2:13of mind? Because it seems like you've
2:14become way more interested in those
2:16questions as of late. both um both
2:20publicly and maybe even more privately
2:21if I'm
2:22>> yeah yeah
2:22>> reading our interactions correctly so
2:24far
2:25>> I don't think my interest well my
2:26interest has definitely grown but I
2:28think I' I've started to feel more
2:30courageous about being able to talk
2:33about it and make videos about it so I I
2:36hit a couple million subscribers on
2:39YouTube so now I'm at a point where I
2:41can be like you know what I can make a
2:42video that I want to make and see if see
2:44see if people like it and they did
2:46>> it was great we made this video on
2:47ancient texts and uh what they all have
2:50in common and the video was like gang
2:53busters.
2:54>> Nice. I somehow missed that one.
2:56>> Yeah. Check it out. What is what has led
2:59to that interest? What would you say the
3:01primary sort of drivers of that interest
3:04have been?
3:05>> About probably seven years ago,
3:08I
3:10was studying neuroscience. I was doing
3:13post-graduate uh work for neuroscience
3:15and
3:17I take a vacation. I'm sitting in my
3:20parents kitchen and my parents were
3:23like, "Are you okay?" We're in the
3:25middle of a conversation and I kind of
3:26closed my eyes for a second and they
3:27were like, "Are you okay?" And I was
3:29like, "Why? What happened?" They're
3:30like, "You were zoned out for like a
3:32minute and a half." And I asked him to
3:35describe every single thing that
3:36happened. And I was like, "I have
3:38temporal lobe epilepsy. I have a brain
3:40disease."
3:40>> Yeah. Uh, and then my wife didn't say
3:43anything. She just figured, you know,
3:45he's he's studying neuroscience. He
3:47would know if something's going on. But
3:48these things are like loaded with
3:49amnesia. Any of these episodes were just
3:52you can't remember that it even
3:54occurred. So like it it happens to your
3:56brain and then deletes itself on on the
3:58way out. So inside of a temporal lobe
4:02seizure, it is like DMT times a
4:07thousand.
4:07>> Wow.
4:09>> Plus steroids.
4:10And it is absolutely bizarre. Uh, and
4:15it's like um
4:17it's like all of your file cabinets get
4:20open for your memories and like 15,000
4:24memories that aren't yours get randomly
4:26sorted in through your entire life's
4:28history.
4:30>> So like for the next two or three weeks,
4:32you don't know what's real. You don't
4:34know what's yours. And all the false
4:36memories are in the same folder. So they
4:38they feel real.
4:40So it really it kind of broke me from
4:44reality and I was thinking like what
4:45what the hell is this like all of this?
4:48What is this? What are we in? Uh so that
4:52that just sent me down this kind of
4:55rabbit hole and then I started doing
4:56therapeutic psychedelics which helped my
5:00brain if not reversed it and I'm not
5:03making any claims but that that really
5:06sent me down the road and just having a
5:08brain disease and then that the
5:10medication they wanted to give me the
5:12number one side effect most common side
5:13effect was seizures. Yeah.
5:15>> So, like there's got to be, you know,
5:17we've been
5:17>> Yeah,
5:18>> we've been on the planet for a little
5:19while. There's got to be some stuff out
5:20there. And there's stuff that's
5:22extremely well researched. Um, like
5:25mephilene blue and all this other stuff.
5:27And I was able to stop everything.
5:30Haven't had a seizure in a very long
5:32time.
5:32>> Amazing.
5:33>> And that's kind of what led me down that
5:36road. And I will say on top of that
5:39since I was 10, I've been obsessed with
5:40ancient texts like reading Bavad Gita
5:43and
5:44>> uh the original Bible or like the
5:47Ethiopian version of the Bible, the
5:49Gnostic texts and the Gospel of Thomas
5:52and Judas and Mary Magdalene.
5:54>> So I read all that when I was a kid
5:56>> and really got into like
5:59>> something isn't right here. And I just
6:01had that feeling my whole life like
6:02something's
6:04something's [ __ ] up. uh like it's not
6:06right.
6:06>> Yes.
6:07>> So I think I had that my whole life, but
6:10it's not like you don't go to a party
6:12and say that to random people. Like you
6:14have to find your people to be able to
6:16ever talk about it. So I think that's
6:19why I waited so long.
6:20>> That's funny. I took the I think I took
6:21the opposite approach just out of
6:23necessity. like the the existential
6:26uh dis disease that I felt always kind
6:29of drew me to those bigger questions and
6:32then I would just talk about it and see
6:33who like came around and who didn't and
6:36it was like well I guess these are my
6:37people by default because they're they
6:39seem to be interested in the same things
6:40but I didn't know that about you and
6:41that makes me feel like this
6:42conversation is going to be um even more
6:45fascinating that you know it's
6:47interesting too because there does seem
6:48to be some if I remember correctly I
6:51remember reading some ancient accounts
6:53of seizures and them talking about it in
6:56a very um spiritual kind of sense. And
7:00now when you put it in that way, I can
7:01totally see why. And I think in another
7:04video of yours that I've seen you
7:06>> Yeah. They call it the sacred disease.
7:08>> Yes.
7:08>> Yeah.
7:09>> Yes.
7:10>> And I think a lot of people like
7:13throughout history that that had these
7:14visions and and
7:17became mystics or or were seen as some
7:19kind of a mystic had this temporal lobe
7:21epilepsy stuff. Mhm.
7:23>> But I just I didn't want to sit with it.
7:25>> Yeah.
7:26>> But I will tell you it it it it was
7:28embarrassing for a long time to admit
7:32>> I miss the seizures.
7:34>> Like I I miss like the it was like I get
7:37to instantly go outside of reality and
7:40it's like and when the seizure starts
7:42it's deja vu that is so powerful that
7:45you think every single thing around me
7:47was arranged to set me up. Mhm.
7:50>> It was all here to set me up and then
7:52it's like this roller coaster feeling
7:53and then then you're in.
7:56>> So, I have no idea where I was going
7:58with that.
7:58>> Well, no, it's it's just all really
8:00fascinating and it and it does lead to
8:02some really big questions for me, but
8:04one one really interesting um spin that
8:06you put on it in a different video is
8:08you liken it to sort of glitching
8:10through a map and I think you were
8:11talking about the game Hitman.
8:12>> Yeah. like talking about the like for
8:14people that don't know who aren't like
8:16gamer nerds uh you can do things to
8:19glitch through maps in games like people
8:21will figure out where there's a I don't
8:23know like some kind of opening in the
8:24map or whatever in an area where you're
8:26not really supposed to be able to get to
8:27and then that lets you like fall through
8:29the map and then some you know if you if
8:31you look up videos of people speed
8:32running games you'll see them like
8:34glitching through areas that you're not
8:36supposed to be able to get through and
8:37stuff
8:38>> and you liken the seizures to almost
8:40doing that with reality which I thought
8:42was was so interesting.
8:44>> Yeah. And for anybody that hasn't seen a
8:47glitch in a video game, like let's say
8:50like we're in a game right now and like
8:52you do some kind of squat thing and then
8:54pull your pistol out at the same time
8:56while stepping on this magic thing and
8:58you can pop through the wall.
8:59>> Yeah.
9:00>> But the game mechanics are made to look
9:03beautiful while you're in it.
9:05>> Yes.
9:06>> And if you go somewhere that the
9:07developers didn't know that you could
9:09see, it looks like [ __ ] Like there's
9:11colors all over the place. The walls are
9:13glitching. So that's a lot of like it
9:15felt like I was falling through
9:17something in into something.
9:19>> Yeah. And there's so many It's crazy how
9:23consciousness itself seems to be able to
9:25do that kind of a thing.
9:27>> Yeah.
9:28>> I mean with many molecules that you and
9:30I are aware of, but also just, you know,
9:33go meditate in front of this black wall
9:35and just stare at the wall with unbroken
9:38sight. Things start to look weird. It
9:40starts to look wavy. You start to doubt
9:42the solidity of the thing in front of
9:44you where you're like, "Intellectually,
9:46I know I'm not going through this wall,
9:48but there's also something about it, at
9:50least perception-wise, that makes me
9:52doubt uh at the very least it's it is
9:55what it appears to be, right?"
9:58And um that in and of itself is very
10:01interesting. But I guess for somebody
10:03who's so interested in neuroscience,
10:06that must have opened up some big
10:08questions for you as well because it
10:11seems like there's a certain point where
10:13subjective experience and neuroscience
10:15must kind of decouple, particularly if
10:17you're somebody who's open to these
10:20bigger metaphysical things.
10:24Was that sort of an immediate thing for
10:26you when you like you had your first
10:28seizure and it started to open up these
10:30more metaphysical questions like reality
10:33questioning sorts of investigations?
10:36>> Absolutely. Yeah. So in studying
10:39neuroscience,
10:41so I did one postgraduate for
10:43neuroscience, one a separate
10:45post-graduate program for medical
10:46neuroscience and another one for
10:47neuroraiology
10:49>> like imaging and MRI CT stuff.
10:52>> Yeah. And one thing you'll hear every
10:55day, every class that you take is it's
10:58believed that this part of the brain
11:00might play a role or is involved in
11:03>> Yeah.
11:04>> It's like we know nothing about how the
11:08brain works and it's still this
11:11materialist reductionism. And the the
11:14way that I describe it to people, and
11:15maybe I've stole this from somebody is
11:18like if we have a an an orchestra here
11:20in front of us and there's no people,
11:23right? I have all the chairs sitting
11:24there, all the instruments sitting
11:26there. And I'm like, Michael, we need to
11:28figure this [ __ ] out. We need to figure
11:29out how how music works. So, step one,
11:32take that cello over there and cut it up
11:34into five million pieces and put every
11:36piece under a microscope.
11:37>> Yes.
11:37>> Then the strings. And then finally, we
11:40make the big Eureka moment discovery.
11:42Like, Chase, I found the sheet music. I
11:45found the sheet music. And I'm like,
11:46okay, this is going to help us
11:47understand. What's our step one? Cut the
11:50sheet music into a million pieces and
11:51look at it under a microscope.
11:53>> Yeah.
11:53>> And all you're looking at is paper.
11:55>> Um, you don't feel the music. There's no
11:58felt experience. There's something there
12:01uh in materialism that's just missing.
12:04It's like it's unplugged from everything
12:06else. and and back in the day
12:10uh there's a uh Italian researcher that
12:12you can't even get his papers in English
12:14right now. His name is Marco Tosskini
12:16>> and he wrote a paper called psychobysica
12:20>> uh the psychology, biology and physical
12:23reality like how everything is
12:26interrelated.
12:27>> Yeah.
12:27>> Uh but we've kind of siloed into these
12:30disciplines of oh you're studying
12:32consciousness. Oh, I actually I do
12:33science where it's where they're not the
12:36same thing. So I think that was a big
12:40horrible horrible step that we took as
12:42as a species of saying like we need to
12:45separate these two things. There's one
12:47studying the metaphysical stuff and
12:48there's one studying physical stuff
12:50>> and pretending like they're not totally
12:54connected.
12:54>> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like
12:55one of those things that was done out of
12:57necessity to create a methodology, but
13:01then over time it just it spun off into
13:03being this all-encompassing, you know,
13:07metaphysical and physical uh package for
13:10just thinking about reality on levels it
13:13was never meant to explain. There's a
13:14book called um uh Galileo's Error by the
13:18uh the philosopher I can't remember his
13:21name. I've talked to him. I'm going to
13:22feel really bad if I can't think of his
13:24name. But anyway, that that's kind of
13:25the idea is that you know a lot of this
13:28creating the scientific method and
13:31approaching the world logically and
13:34rigorously, measurably can sort of be
13:37traced back to Galileo is one of the the
13:40you know founding fathers of of this way
13:42of exploring the world and the
13:43scientific method. Uh but part of uh his
13:46argument is that he actually never meant
13:48to explain away all subjective
13:51experience and spirituality and
13:53consciousness. It's just that you can't
13:55really have the scientific method if
13:57you're trying to bring subjectivity and
14:00things that can't be replicated into the
14:02conversation. Yeah. So it's not that
14:03you're actually
14:05>> capturing reality and all of its
14:07constituent parts accurately through the
14:09scientific method. In fact, it was never
14:11uh Goth uh Goth is his name. Um so yeah,
14:16I think I think that we're confronting
14:18that reality in so many ways right now.
14:20And if you go down the rabbit hole of
14:22having altered state experiences in
14:24particular, I feel like if you're
14:26intellectually honest with yourself, I
14:27don't understand um how how you can at
14:30least not have the epistemic humility to
14:33be like, I don't know what the [ __ ] is
14:35going on. Yeah, like clearly there is
14:36this horizon of mystery that we're on
14:38the precipice of all the time whether we
14:40realize it or not. And all it takes is a
14:43little shove for you to glitch out of
14:44the map, so to speak. Um,
14:48but there's always the thing that's so
14:50mind-blowing to me is it seems like
14:52there's more and more layers of order
14:55and and intelligence and mystery. The
14:57the deeper you go into that, it's just
15:00like it never ends. Like whether you're
15:02looking through a microscope,
15:04we find another thing and we find
15:05another thing and we find another thing.
15:07And if you use your mind as the
15:09microscope or as the aperture to do the
15:11exploring, you again, you just keep
15:13finding more and more layers. So how you
15:15can
15:16>> even want to reduce that down to
15:18materialism just is is so perplexing to
15:20me.
15:20>> It is to me too. And it's it's
15:23horrifying in in many ways that like I
15:27mean how many studies out there that are
15:29there that show that neon lights are bad
15:32for your endocrine system or your brain?
15:34There's a a bazillion of them. I don't
15:37know how many, right? How many are there
15:39that say don't drink hot liquids out of
15:41styrofoam cups and that's going to be
15:42that might be bad for you to ingest all
15:44these microplastics and then you go stay
15:46in the ICU. What are you surrounded by?
15:49everything that there's a study that
15:50says this is not good for a human
15:54>> to a human to be a human and they're
15:56they're feeding you fried chicken and
15:58salsbury steak and you're drinking out
16:00of styrofoam cups surrounded by neon
16:03lights like
16:04>> this is our modern
16:06>> uh materialist reduction system at work
16:10>> and I think when it comes to the
16:11consciousness uh side of things you know
16:14you've interviewed uh Thomas Campbell I
16:17think a while ago long time ago. A
16:19really long time ago, but yeah, I'm
16:20definitely familiar.
16:21>> And Donald Hoffman a bunch of times.
16:23>> You've talked to him. Um I think Did you
16:25ever get Rupert Sheldrake on?
16:27>> Not Rupert Sheldrake. No, but but yeah,
16:29I mean uh Don Hoffman, Bernardo Castro.
16:33>> Yeah.
16:34>> Uh yeah, a lot of these guys,
16:35>> wonderful guys.
16:36>> Yeah.
16:37>> So, if if you go back to our species
16:39history, what's the first cool skill
16:41that we mastered? It's like making stuff
16:44out of clay. And then how do we describe
16:47God in consciousness? He is a even if in
16:50the Bible he made us out of clay, picked
16:52us up out of the earth and carved us
16:54like a master potter or whatever it is,
16:57a clay worker, whatever the name for
16:58that is. And that because that was the
17:00big technology at the time. Then we
17:03start uh making really complex tools. So
17:06now the universe is a set of tools and
17:09God is a tool maker.
17:10>> Yeah. And then we have the industrial
17:12revolution and the universe is a
17:13machine. And then we have electricity
17:16start flowing around the whole world and
17:18now the universe is energy. And then we
17:20have computers and now the universe is a
17:22is a computer simulation. You have like
17:24real actual people.
17:26>> Like you can see them all over YouTube
17:28that say, "Well, we can't be in a
17:29simulation because it would take this
17:31much computational power." Like oh my
17:33god.
17:34>> Yeah.
17:34>> Like that's a educated person saying
17:37this.
17:37>> Yeah. uh that that we could fathom
17:39something outside of this. So, and after
17:42and now we're moving out of the computer
17:44age. What age are we in now? We're
17:46moving into the information age, AI and
17:48all this. And now everyone's calling the
17:50the universe these packets of
17:52information,
17:52>> right?
17:53>> And every time we make this shift to
17:56describe the universe with a different
17:58metaphor, we think, "Oh, yeah. All the
18:00previous times, yeah, we got that wrong,
18:01but this one, we got this one%.
18:04>> We were so right about this one."
18:06>> Yeah. Yeah. And it'll change in the next
18:07next paradigm shift that we have.
18:10>> Yeah. I've had this exact same thought
18:11like the like to your point that there
18:13used to be that uh that deist
18:15philosopher who you know likened the
18:17cosmos to like a watch like a like a
18:20like a clockwork that um that God had
18:22made or something like that. And and
18:24it's you look back at it now and you're
18:27like yeah it's not wrong but it's not
18:29right. It's not like it's definitely
18:31does not have the explanatory power to
18:33account for all the levels of reality.
18:36And that's how I feel about honestly
18:37like I use the word simulation. I use
18:39the word matrix. Um I'll talk about
18:42these things, but I absolutely think
18:43that's a placeholder concept for
18:45something that's much much deeper. And
18:48yeah, the idea that you can, you know,
18:50it's like saying, oh, um, warp drives
18:53can't uh exist because that would
18:56require the amount of power of like a
18:59star, you know, when you when you put
19:01things in the terms of Einsteinian
19:03relativity. Yeah, of course it doesn't
19:05make sense, but it maybe it's a paradigm
19:07shift away for it to make sense.
19:09>> And it's always a fun thought experiment
19:11to think
19:12>> what will that next conceptual
19:15placeholder be? Because if you could
19:17predict that, you could probably predict
19:19a lot of uh at least theoretical
19:22concepts, but maybe even technological
19:24breakthroughs that would stem from
19:26whatever that next way of thinking about
19:28reality would be. I mean, just to
19:30spitball it, what what do you think? You
19:32know, if we're moving from the the uh
19:35simulation metaphor into something else,
19:37what what do you think the next thing
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20:58just to spitball it, what what do you
21:00think, you know, if we're moving from
21:02the the uh simulation metaphor into
21:06something else, what what do you think
21:07the next thing would be?
21:08>> The one we're in now or the one we're
21:10transitioning to right now is
21:12information. Yeah. So, the universe is
21:14made up of bits of information, right?
21:16>> And next is going to be intelligence.
21:18Like the the universe is somehow aware.
21:20The universe is intelligent. We might be
21:23getting closer or we may just be getting
21:25better at using metaphors that still
21:28can't touch the thing and and people are
21:31obsessing over these metaphors and which
21:33I think um I think Thomas Campbell uses
21:36the computer one a lot but I think he
21:37know he uses it knowing
21:39>> simulation.
21:40>> Yeah. Knowing it's a metaphor.
21:42>> Uh I think he thinks it's a metaphor.
21:45Um, I think over time it's going to be
21:48this intelligence thing, but it's just
21:51like they tried to tell us when uh they
21:54wrote all the stuff that they wrote for
21:56Buddhism, like if you can describe it,
21:59that's not it.
22:00>> Yeah.
22:00>> If you ever have the ability to describe
22:02a tiny fraction of it, then you have not
22:04got it.
22:04>> Yeah.
22:05>> Then you don't have it.
22:06>> And and every book tries to tell us
22:08that. Every ancient text from the
22:10Mayans, the Mayans had this book called
22:12the Pope Vu. We had the uh the Bavad
22:15Gita. We have these ancient Vic texts
22:18and the Egyptian all the there's a
22:20massive tome of Egyptian stuff. Even the
22:23stuff that was found in Nagamadi in um
22:25the Nagamadi scrolls in 1950 something
22:28like
22:29in my dad's lifetime.
22:31>> Yeah.
22:31>> And it's all telling us the same stuff.
22:35>> Yep.
22:35>> And the one thing that I think it's
22:37saying if if you were to boil it all
22:39down to one or two big things. Number
22:42one, don't be afraid. If you're in a
22:44video game, you're supposed to be going
22:46through something. Like don't don't be
22:48afraid. Number two is like you are all
22:53connected, but we're connected in a way
22:55that like we might be one thing.
22:57>> Yeah. exploring itself like a recursive
23:01>> um tooid is like a lot of people see
23:04that shape on mushrooms and DMT and all
23:06this this yeah
23:07>> toid shape of what is reality
23:09>> and then you zoom down into a human body
23:11and you have a blood cell it's the exact
23:13same toid shape you know like as above
23:16so below which I think is the second
23:18hermetic uh principle
23:21>> and I if we look at that and what does
23:25that mean so like they say you're
23:26supposed to have morals you're supposed
23:28to have ethics. Like all these books are
23:29talking about that, but what do they say
23:31right after that or right before that?
23:33It's encapsulated within you are this
23:35one thing. So like I don't need to go
23:38get educated in morals if I believe the
23:40first thing. That's right.
23:41>> If I believe that you're me, the morals
23:44are automatic.
23:46Every every piece of morality instantly
23:48becomes I want to do what's best for me.
23:50And if I view this as we're one thing,
23:52morality is a just a downstream
23:55byproduct of knowing that we're all one
23:57thing.
23:58>> Yeah, man. I I completely agree. And and
24:00I, you know, I'm I'm always very like
24:02intellectually turned on by this idea
24:04that there is this like Prrisca Sophia
24:07or this like golden chain of true
24:09philosophers that all knew exactly what
24:11you were saying. And I think when you
24:13try to you know from a scholarly POV yes
24:17Buddhism has very important differences
24:19from uh Hinduism and even like I'm very
24:22interested in uh like neoplatanism for
24:25in for instance and even amongst
24:27neoplatonists they're not agreeing on
24:28everything but they are broadly agreeing
24:30on everything that you're saying like
24:31everything emanates out from one kind of
24:34central mystery. We're all part of that
24:36mystery yet we don't fully encompass
24:38that mystery.
24:40reality is sort of this uh hierarchy or
24:45um at least lightly graded sort of
24:48planes of uh instantiation that are
24:52closer to that initial source. Yeah.
24:55>> And maybe the things that are closer to
24:56that source are maybe consciousnesses we
24:58would call deities or gods or divine
25:01principles or something like that. that
25:02those things too are like flowing
25:04forward into our reality and then they
25:06materialize it with little symbols in
25:09our reality and like and and it just all
25:11starts to sound very much like what we
25:14experience in these altered states of
25:15consciousness like we experience that
25:17there is this flowing energy that it's
25:19that it's coming from some higher source
25:22at the very least of uh
25:25>> I don't know like some
25:26>> like some sort of etheric or
25:30something else that we can't quite sense
25:32with our five senses, but we somehow
25:35feel there and it's familiar when it
25:38reveals itself. It's Yeah, I think
25:40they're all trying to explain that same
25:42mystery and an experience of that same
25:44mystery. And then, you know, there are
25:46there are wrinkles or or dissonances
25:48within the explanations, but not
25:50whatever it is in and of itself. And
25:52I've had that exact same thought that
25:54you mentioned too that if you, you know,
25:57namaste style,
25:59I acknowledge this mystery within you.
26:02Um, kind of way. I mean, yeah, man. So
26:04many things just flow forth from that
26:07initial acknowledgement that we're all
26:09>> fundamentally of the same substance and
26:11we're all kind of going through a
26:12similar experience that that would be
26:15such a huge leveling kind of thing to
26:18agree on in a societal level. yet we
26:20just can't seem to do it.
26:22>> It would change everything. And I think
26:24the illusion of separation is the
26:27biggest deception that has ever been
26:30created. If it was created, I'm not
26:32saying there's some conspiracy, but us
26:34me thinking that my skin is like chase
26:37stops right here.
26:38>> Yeah.
26:39>> And Michael starts were right behind
26:40those jeans, right? Like that's that's
26:42that's this little boundary and there's
26:44some space between us. And
26:47if you were to ask the staunch person
26:51who's just a scientist, like let's say
26:53Neil deGrasse Tyson, you say, "Hey,
26:55>> what where what what is all this? Where
26:57do we come from?" You know how he would
26:58explain it? And I'm going to paraphrase.
27:00We all come from this big mysterious one
27:03thing.
27:04>> Yeah.
27:04>> And that one thing evolved to explore
27:07itself. And this is how science
27:09describes it, too. Even if you just ask
27:11them about the big bang, that's us
27:12coming from one thing. We evolved to
27:14explore ourselves. All of us were there
27:17at that moment whenever the bang
27:19happened if there was a bang.
27:21>> Yeah.
27:21>> And we are even science is telling us
27:25they're not using these words but
27:26they're saying like we're one thing like
27:29we still are one. Uh, so no matter what
27:32angle you look at it, we if we could
27:35God, if we could make that shift around
27:37the world of just like you don't have to
27:39go buy linen pants and bead necklaces
27:42and [ __ ] Just just make the
27:44acknowledgement like what I thought
27:46about separation yesterday
27:49might be a little bit incorrect or might
27:51be off. And you don't have to think
27:53we're all one thing, but just we're all
27:54connected. And like uh if you think
27:57about a dream that you had and I'm going
28:00off on a huge tangent here,
28:01>> please do.
28:02>> Yeah.
28:02>> If you think about a dream and in the
28:04dream there's some guy, let's say you're
28:06standing at a urinal, right? And some
28:08guy comes up. By the way, don't use
28:10bathrooms. If you ever learn lucid
28:12dreaming, best tip I could ever give
28:14you. Don't use the bathrooms in lucid
28:16dreams. Um but if you're like in a
28:19bathroom,
28:19>> wait, why? Why?
28:20>> Cuz you'll piss yourself.
28:21>> Oh yeah, I should have. Yeah, that's
28:24obvious.
28:25>> So, some bad guy comes in and he's like
28:28mugging you or punching you in the head
28:29or something.
28:31>> Who is that person made of in your
28:33dream? They're made out of you.
28:36>> And that's that's the only way that if I
28:38just understand that you're I'm swimming
28:41in that reality for eight hours a day.
28:43>> Let some of that permeate upward. Let a
28:46little bit of that come up and say,
28:47"Wait, this is me being an [ __ ] to
28:51myself."
28:52>> Yeah. Um, and just understand that
28:54that's maybe what this is. And if it if
28:58I described reality perfectly, then I
29:00failed, right? It's just a metaphor.
29:02It's a way to help us understand what's
29:04going on. And if you take the dream, can
29:06I go down another t? Please do.
29:08>> Okay.
29:08>> So, let's think of a dream really quick.
29:10Um, if we have some an object in the
29:13room like this chair right here, and
29:15you're the one dreaming, right? And I'm
29:18in your dream. I'd say, "Michael, what
29:19is this made of?" and you your initial
29:22reaction would be like, "Well, it's made
29:23of wood." I'm like, "Okay, what's this
29:25chair thing made of?" It's made out of
29:27some gray fabric, whatever it is. I'm
29:30like, "All right, so now what's the
29:32distance to it?" And you say, "Oh, it's
29:33like, I don't know, 5 and 1/2 ft from
29:35your face." And then I'm like, "Well, I
29:38want you to make sure." So, here's a
29:40tape measure. And you measure the
29:41distance from your face to this chair.
29:43You're like, "Okay, we've proven it with
29:45science." Um, and then everything else
29:47that you could do, you could lick it,
29:49you could touch it, you could taste it.
29:50I could bring out a microscope right
29:52here in your dream and you could inspect
29:54everything under a microscope. Every
29:56single thing that you would do to prove
29:59that everything is real, you can do in a
30:01dream and in this reality.
30:03>> Yeah.
30:04>> So, what if if dreams show us something?
30:07If they kind of we can get a lesson from
30:09like, well, we're jammed into this
30:12alternate reality for eight hours a day.
30:16There has to be something in there,
30:17right? That I've got to be able to kind
30:19of maybe map something onto that. It's
30:22showing us with 100% not 89, 100% proof
30:27that consciousness can become matter,
30:31>> right?
30:32>> And it and people are like, well, that's
30:34just dead matter. Those are just dead
30:35atoms. It is in your dream, too. It can
30:38It is 100% consciousness in your dream,
30:41and it doesn't have to be animate,
30:44but the chair isn't conscious. That's
30:46the big mistake I think people make. And
30:48maybe I'm totally wrong about this.
30:51>> I I don't think we're conscious. I think
30:54we're consciousness.
30:56>> So, when people say, "Will AI ever
30:58develop consciousness?" No, because it's
31:00made out of it.
31:02>> Yeah. On some like fundamental level.
31:04But yeah, I think maybe that and it gets
31:06into very like nuanced, you know,
31:09pedantic territory because you start
31:11being like, can it be conscious without
31:12being aware of itself being conscious
31:14and you know, maybe it's something like
31:15that. But
31:16>> do we have sentience, non-concious,
31:17consciousness, non-scentient,
31:19>> right? Exactly.
31:20>> And then we have to go back and like,
31:21okay, let's let's define all of those
31:23words
31:24>> because then like you have a
31:25conversation about consciousness and the
31:27other person has a totally different
31:28definition and you never say anything.
31:31So I think there's a chance that this
31:34might be like if you just look at things
31:38like sudden savant syndrome
31:41>> somebody gets bumped on the head and now
31:42they speak French right
31:44>> or play the piano and they've never
31:46touched a piano in their life
31:48>> and science is like oh yeah why don't
31:50why don't they explore it because it's
31:51hard to measure.
31:52>> So that was the thing that you were
31:53talking about with Galileo uh any
31:56Galileo didn't pay much attention to
31:58things that were non-measurable. Right.
32:00Right. So, and and they don't get
32:03attention, but
32:05there's so much that we're sitting on a
32:08mountain of evidence and people say,
32:10"No, this can't be." You hear all these
32:12people say this,
32:14>> but if I have a theory that all crows
32:16are black, how many white crows does it
32:19take to completely disprove my theory?
32:21It just one. It only takes one. And
32:23we're sitting on a mountain of this
32:24stuff.
32:25>> Yeah. Uh and I say this with like
32:28negative numbers levels of certainty
32:31about anything.
32:33>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that that idea
32:36is a very powerful idea that if your if
32:39your dreamscape can be so real that you
32:42cannot discern and it comes it circles
32:44back into that kind of core bosumesque
32:48uh argument about conspiracy conspiracy
32:50theory u maybe that's foreshadowing the
32:52conversation but uh simulation theory
32:54right that you can very quickly do this
32:56thought experiment that makes that sound
33:00100%
33:02uh irrefutable But where I typically
33:06disconnect from simulation theory is
33:09when you start to assume that just by
33:11making more and more complex
33:13simulations, all of a sudden the
33:15characters within that simulation wake
33:17up. The only thing I take issue with is
33:19that but if you build in the assumption
33:22that no consciousness was there to begin
33:24with, then it all kind of makes sense.
33:26But then you're an idealist and that's a
33:27no-go for mo that's the opposite of
33:29being a materialist, right? Um, so
33:32anyway, yeah. Well, now that I said
33:34we're maybe foreshadowing the the
33:36conversation, uh, it makes me want to
33:38want to pivot. Maybe that was like a
33:39synchronistic pivot point or something
33:41like that.
33:42>> But what you're you're talking about
33:43essence.
33:44>> Yes. And and that's that the true word
33:46of essence is like someone believes if I
33:50get enough atoms together and smush them
33:53around in a certain way, boom,
33:55consciousness happens. And we have human
33:57beings and we we have these conscious
33:58beings. Um, and that's like the essence
34:02theory of someone thinks like it's a
34:04thing because of what it's constructed
34:06of. Even though like u this is if you
34:10zoom into this, there's no atom on this
34:12piece of wood that's brown.
34:13>> There no such thing as a brown atom.
34:15>> Yeah.
34:16>> Uh it's only brown because of a
34:18frequency because of all kinds of crazy
34:20stuff. And the weird thing is like if
34:23you see something that's red, the one
34:26color it's not is really red
34:28>> because it's the only light that it
34:30rejects is red light, which means it
34:32absorbs every color but red.
34:34>> Wow.
34:34>> It's reflecting red light. So when you
34:36see something and you're like, "Oh,
34:38that's red." It's absolutely not red
34:40because it's rejecting it. It's
34:42reflecting that that level of light.
34:44>> Yeah. This gets into that whole
34:45conversation about uh what is it like
34:47primary and secondary
34:50qualities. I think this is actually
34:51talked about in that Galileo's error
34:53book is that the suchness of a thing
34:56mostly lies in the subjective experience
35:00of the thing which can't be measured
35:01because you can't find the redness of an
35:03apple you like in investigating the
35:06object molecularly. So yeah, that's such
35:07an important such a hugely important
35:09point. Yeah. And that's the distinction
35:11of the I don't know what I don't know
35:14who came up with it about the you know
35:15the the woman who's locked in a room and
35:18can't see color. Uh but she studies
35:20everything there is to know about like
35:22the color green.
35:23>> Yeah.
35:23>> And she's like the smartest most well
35:25educated person on the color green in
35:26the world and has never seen it.
35:28>> Yeah.
35:29>> And then she steps outside for the first
35:31time in her life and she can't find it.
35:34She doesn't know which what's green. She
35:36can't see green. Well, she can see it.
35:38She doesn't know which color is green
35:40even though she knows everything about
35:41it. So, and that's I think that's the
35:44same thing the suchness of it.
35:46>> Yeah. And I think you know it's it's
35:48ironic because in some ways I also sort
35:50of feel like you you and I are also that
35:53kind of person who are seeking that
35:56unseeable
35:58platonic thing that's outside this realm
36:02>> that we Yeah. that we know must be
36:04there.
36:04>> Yeah. And you know, some people make the
36:06argument that it's like, hey, what if
36:09it's by design that we can't sense this
36:10thing? Maybe we're not supposed to be
36:12able to. Maybe we're supposed to be in
36:14this experience focusing on this stuff
36:17and then that comes later when you're in
36:20some other presumably disembodied state
36:22or more consciousness based state. So,
36:24don't worry about that stuff. Now, what
36:26do you do? You agree with that kind of
36:28an argument or do you disagree with it?
36:29>> I kind of agree. Um, but I I would also
36:33say why I mean
36:35>> somebody put DMT here,
36:37>> right? Yeah,
36:38>> somebody did.
36:39>> And
36:40>> they put it in everything seemingly
36:42>> even our body. Yeah,
36:43>> it's like in our body. We make DMT
36:45indogenously,
36:46>> but I think there's a difference here.
36:48>> So, we'll go back to the game Hitman
36:50again. Yeah,
36:51>> this is going to become an ad for IOI.
36:54Um, so in Hitman,
36:58it's I'm going to describe this and
37:00every Hitman person out there is going
37:02to know, but you you put like a
37:04briefcase down and that allows you to
37:06like step an inch higher than you
37:07normally would and you can kind of pop
37:09over a rail. There's other stuff
37:10involved, but
37:12>> so there's a way to kind of get outside
37:13the playable area and there's a way to
37:16exit the playable area. So I think you
37:19and I want to see what we're not
37:21supposed to see.
37:22>> Yeah. But we're not trying to exit the
37:25map. Um, and I think like if you exit
37:28the map in Hitman, probably the same for
37:30other games. Um, like you just bump like
37:34you fall through this floor and you can
37:36look up and like see the entire game map
37:39as you're just falling to infinity.
37:41>> Yep.
37:42>> Uh, I don't want that experience.
37:44>> But I like the experience of like I want
37:46to learn the glitches where I can kind
37:48of exit the predetermined playable area.
37:52Yeah. No, I'm I'm 100% the same way. And
37:56yeah, it is. I mean, I'm not a, you
37:57know, a a developer or anything, but
38:00yeah, it's just whether it's Elden Ring
38:02or Red Dead Redemption or Grand Theft,
38:05same thing. You can definitely glitch
38:07out of the map and see it from these
38:09angles you're not supposed to be able to
38:10see it from. Speaking of seeing things
38:12that you're not supposed to be able to
38:13see it from, I do want to have the SCOP
38:16conversation with you because I think
38:17that you're like one of the most
38:19fascinating people to talk to about this
38:22topic because you've worked with it,
38:24thought about it, developed whole
38:26concepts around it, taught it from my
38:28understanding. Um,
38:31and I think that that has very this
38:33conversation has very practical
38:35elements, but it also does have elements
38:38that start to edge on conspiratorial.
38:40But I think rightfully so because I
38:42think that that likely is what's going
38:44on. And I was actually uh pleasantly
38:47surprised to see that you had a whole
38:49video on the topic of UFO disclosure in
38:53SCOPS because as someone who's very
38:56interested in that topic and does think
38:58there's a there there I'm immediately
39:01incredibly suspicious of all public-f
39:04facing transmissions to that effect. And
39:09it's I don't want to make that sound
39:11like I knee-jerk reject what like a you
39:15know whatever mainstream talking head is
39:17is saying about UFO disclosure. I'm just
39:20always assuming there's something else
39:21that's not being said like and and
39:23there's a and there's a why behind that
39:25that's not being wide publicly. Yeah.
39:28>> And and that always makes me like
39:31>> I don't No, I think I've always thought
39:32this way and I also did go to school for
39:34journalism. So, they always teach you to
39:36think critically and question and, you
39:38know, wonder, you know, who's saying
39:40this and why and what their interests
39:42are. Yeah. Do you want to just summarize
39:44kind of what you covered in that video?
39:46Because I think it's great for everybody
39:48to hear and a lot of people who watch
39:49this channel are interested uh in this
39:52topic. So, I think having this this
39:54nuance is is very valuable.
39:57>> So, let's start with nuance.
39:58>> Yeah. Uh the first victim of scops is
40:03nuance every time. It's it's always the
40:05first victim. It's not the truth. It's
40:07and scops is usually the truth or a
40:10thing that is true. And and most people
40:13confuse something that is true with the
40:16truth. And those are very different
40:18things. Uh so like if you and I were
40:20staring down a paper towel tube right
40:22now, we both see a circle, but our
40:25producer behind the camera would see a
40:26rectangle, right? what we're seeing is
40:29true. The tube itself is the truth,
40:31right? So, and that's kind of what we're
40:34talking about like just kind of getting
40:36out and and seeing true true capital T
40:39truth.
40:40>> Uh, so the death of nuance is the first
40:43thing that happens in SCOPS and usually
40:45you're presented with some kind of false
40:47binary choice like here are the good
40:49guys, here are the bad guys, which leads
40:51to step two, which is a prepackaged
40:53enemy. Mhm.
40:54>> And this comes with tribal language. Us
40:56versus them. We're the good people.
40:58They're the [ __ ] Bad guys. We need
41:00to blow them up. All of this kind of
41:02prepackaged.
41:03>> Yeah.
41:04>> Uh language. The villain is already
41:06wrapped up, ready to go. Like a Mattel
41:08toy. Like all the bad guy with all the
41:11bad stuff he's done. Just ready to go.
41:14Uh next you have influencers
41:17that aligned. So you're this is where
41:19you're going to see 10 15 maybe 50
41:23influencers that are all kind of like
41:24saying the almost the same thing around
41:28the same few days. Uh and this is you
41:31could see this everywhere. Like the most
41:33rampant example of this is what happened
41:36in 2020. I don't even know if you're
41:37allowed to say the word on YouTube now.
41:40>> Let's be safe.
41:41>> Yeah. And and we had this whole the
41:44whole thing was a sign up. But the next
41:48level is um when you're dealing with
41:51scops, you have people of authority. So
41:56celebrity is different than authority.
41:58Celebrity is I need to listen to them
42:00because they're they carry social value.
42:03So like someone working from the US
42:05government doesn't carry social capital,
42:08but they carry authority and trust. And
42:14I was just in a conversation with
42:16someone, I won't say who it was, a
42:18couple of days ago, and they're like,
42:19"Oh yeah, well the government's going to
42:21release all this alien stuff." And I was
42:23like, "Oh, the people who made the food
42:24pyramid,
42:26>> right?"
42:26>> Yeah.
42:27>> That like makes you sick.
42:29>> Um have while having access to all the
42:33data about what foods are healthy and
42:35what are not. So the people that made
42:37the food pyramid are going to tell you
42:39uh what's what's great,
42:40>> right? So,
42:41>> and it's somehow going to make them
42:42money.
42:44>> That's the other thing that always seems
42:45to happen.
42:46>> Yeah. And and there's if if you're
42:48seeing stock trades from Congress on
42:51both sides.
42:52>> So, that's that happens. And if I see a
42:56a a person who's former government
43:00and and they come out with a list of
43:04what they're allowed to say and what
43:06they're not allowed to say, the
43:08definition of that is a spokesperson.
43:11>> Yeah.
43:12>> It it's a spokesperson. And you don't
43:14call someone a whistleblower because
43:16they're not blowing a whistle. They're
43:17not There's no whistle there. There's a
43:19room where that whistle is maybe
43:22breathed through very softly.
43:25>> Um, but and I it makes me suspicious
43:29like maybe they've got some
43:32motive or they have an assignment.
43:34They've been kind of they they've become
43:36an agent on someone's behalf for
43:38something. Friends, I have been cooking
43:40up the goods over in the members section
43:42on YouTube and at patreon.com/theryrops.
43:47What are said goods? And was cooking
43:51really the best verb you could summon on
43:53this occasion? Uh, well, to the former
43:56question, said goods are weekly, at
43:59least roughly, exclusive content that
44:01you are never going to see here on the
44:03main feed, uh, with some of your
44:04favorite guests. By the way, case in
44:06point, I am slowly working on a dock
44:09that I shot at Contact in the Desert
44:11this year with a number of your favorite
44:14beings on the topic of UFOs and
44:17consciousness. And I will be releasing
44:18the full unedited conversations with all
44:21of those people only on the members
44:24channel and on Patreon. If you do join
44:26up over at patreon.com/therirops,
44:30you will get access to all of those
44:32exclusive videos, plus a patronon
44:34Discord and occasional live hangs and
44:37more. And yes, of course, the doc will
44:39be coming out on the main feed if I
44:41didn't make that clear. So much love for
44:42watching, my friends, while I have you
44:44tickle that algorithm, like, subscribe,
44:46uh, review if you are listening on
44:48Spotify. But I and I it makes me
44:52suspicious like maybe they've got some
44:56motive or they have an assignment.
44:57They've been kind of they they've become
45:00an agent on someone's behalf for
45:02something. And I hate using the word
45:04they,
45:05>> right?
45:05>> It's so shitty and sloppy, you know?
45:09It's It requires no work to say, "Oh,
45:11they want you control. They want you
45:12asleep."
45:13>> It's a good thumbnail, though.
45:14>> Yeah, it is fantastic. I'll probably use
45:16it. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that's that's
45:20kind of the overview of SCOPS. And the
45:22goal of a SCOP is to shift the
45:26perception, not the belief, the
45:28perception initially and then the
45:30context.
45:32>> So if I can change how you view a
45:34situation, oh, maybe this guy is bad.
45:36Oh, maybe he is a threat. Now the
45:38context is you're in a threat. Someone's
45:40a threat to you. And what do we do to
45:42the threats? We could we neutralize
45:43them. We kill them. So, and if I let's
45:48let's go into a mind control example
45:49really quick. An extreme mind control
45:51example.
45:53Somebody says, "Oh, you can't like
45:55hypnotize somebody to
45:57I don't know, do some crazy antisocial
46:00act." Uh,
46:02I don't want to use the terminology that
46:04I was going to use, but do something
46:05violent, right? at if you're in the
46:07middle of a restaurant and somebody
46:09convinces you that everyone in this
46:12restaurant is attacking you and is
46:16this new context comes with what?
46:19Massive permission to do something that
46:22was not permiss permissible before,
46:24>> right?
46:25>> So all context has permission tied to
46:27it,
46:28>> but perception has to come first. So
46:30it's always perception gets shifted then
46:33the context and the permission is just a
46:35downstream byproduct of everything.
46:37Yeah. Yeah. I think for me one of the
46:40most important things you said in that
46:43whole beautiful sequence was that it
46:46doesn't have to not be true and in fact
46:49it often is true. It's just that you're
46:51like looking at the truth through too
46:52small of an aperture to see the context
46:54and and how the the truth could be being
46:57controlled. Cuz like to use the example
46:59of the un the the the boogie word from
47:022020, that doesn't mean it didn't
47:04happen. People did die. People did get
47:07it, you know,
47:09>> for sure.
47:10>> But also, it was it was prayed upon. It
47:13was taken advantage of. Who knows? Like,
47:16still to this day, we don't know for
47:17sure the origins. That's all in in
47:21contestment uh in the public sphere and
47:24way deeper probably in like
47:26peer-reviewed papers than I know how to
47:28read. But the fact totally remains that
47:31I think that that regardless of what
47:33side of the aisle you're looking at that
47:35from, clearly that is the truth that
47:38that what we know about it was this and
47:40whatever it was is is this.
47:42>> And whether that was like some, you
47:45know, there was like a a three 4D puppet
47:48master over the top of that or if it
47:50really just was a a twist of
47:52unbelievably unfortunate circumstances.
47:54It it it's was a scop. Either way, it
47:56doesn't it doesn't matter. And all of
47:58reality
47:59that we are being presented is like that
48:01because there again just from a
48:03mainstream this is what I learned
48:05getting my degree in journalism. There's
48:07like all of these words around why um I
48:12don't know if I'll be able to remember
48:13them because this is so long ago at this
48:14point but it's like you know from from
48:16newsworthiness to narrative to um yeah I
48:20don't I don't remember all agenda
48:22setting that's one of them. You know,
48:24there's like all of these things that
48:25they're thinking along the lines of
48:27within a a newsroom. Like very few of
48:29these like news rooms still exist like
48:31they did even back then. Like there's so
48:33many more newspapers and you know people
48:35doing this on a on a much more organized
48:37level. But this is true across it seems
48:40like organized groups of humanity. It's
48:41like you're you're constantly looking
48:43how to take advantage of and spin and or
48:46even create whole narratives that are
48:48based on a segment of the truth, you
48:51know, but only a segment of the truth
48:52that's convenient for the person telling
48:55you that truth. So yeah, I I think that
48:57that is just so important for for sense
49:01making, for spotting scops, for for
49:04everything. I think one thing I've
49:06taught my kids since they were six, uh,
49:09every commercial they saw, uh, when they
49:12were growing up, you know, they saw a
49:14commercial for toys or something.
49:15>> Yeah.
49:16>> And I I would go up to the TV and be
49:18like, "Wow, look at all these kids." And
49:19I would overdo what the commercials
49:21covertly trying to say, I would say it
49:23out loud. I would say, "Look at all
49:24their k these kids now. They have
49:26friends because they bought this remote
49:27control car. And the remote control car
49:29is going to make you happy."
49:30>> And my son is like 6 years old. like,
49:33"No, it's not." I said, "They just told
49:36you it's going to make you happy and
49:37you're going to get lots of friends and
49:38they're going to come over to the
49:39house."
49:39>> Yeah.
49:40>> And he's like, "No, that's not true."
49:42So, that's layer one. Overdo. And when
49:44you hear a message, like overdo it. And
49:46does it sound stupid? Because they're
49:48covertly giving you the message. Just
49:50say it out loud what you're seeing.
49:52Level two, and this is only a two-step
49:54process, is what does this thing want me
49:58to feel about it?
49:59>> Yeah.
50:00>> And that is the biggest thing. Uh, and
50:02that you could use that as a fun people
50:04watching game. What does this person
50:06want me to think about them? What do
50:08these bumper stickers on this mean on
50:10the on somebody's car want me to feel
50:13about that person? They want me to think
50:14a certain way about them.
50:16>> What does this commercial want me to
50:18think about it? What what does this news
50:21anchor want me to think about the war in
50:23Iran?
50:24>> Right?
50:25>> Um,
50:26all of these things just getting that
50:28into your mind. Like one step when
50:31people go into lucid dreaming is asking
50:32yourself all day long all day long am I
50:35asleep or am I awake am I asleep and
50:37then prove it right and this is the same
50:39thing what is this thing you do this and
50:41it alters reality for you and all you
50:44start doing is seeing like whoa
50:47everything has an agenda and agenda
50:49doesn't mean evil like somebody trying
50:52to get you to come to rehab has an
50:54agenda right to save your life so agenda
50:58doesn't mean evil
50:59But you really start seeing the world
51:01through the lens of what does this
51:03person want me to feel? How do how does
51:05they how do they need me to feel about
51:07this? And that I think that's the the
51:10biggest shift. And oh my god, if you've
51:12got if somebody's got kids at home,
51:13teaching kids this stuff is so
51:15important.
51:16>> Totally. So, so when it does come to
51:18that original topic that we started
51:20going down the trajectory of the the UFO
51:23topic and everything that's coming out
51:24about it, how are you looking at this as
51:27a cultural phenomenon and and what are
51:29your concerns versus
51:32what do you have high conviction? Like,
51:34okay, this part of it seems like it
51:37might be true and the rest of this I'm
51:40looking at with deeply sus kind of
51:43vibes.
51:44>> So, we'll we'll kick this off with a
51:45quote from Dr. Phil.
51:47>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. The the new the new uh
51:49the new head of disclosure apparently.
51:52Yeah.
51:53>> Uh so to quote Dr. Phil, it's the first
51:56non-fiction book I ever read in my life
51:57was Phil's Dr. Phil's. He's now a very
51:59good friend of mine.
52:00>> Oh, cool.
52:01>> Um
52:02but he said, "The best predictor of
52:04future behavior is past behavior."
52:06>> Yeah.
52:07>> And it sounds like, oh, I could write
52:08that on a post-it note. But if you
52:10process that and actually start thinking
52:12that way, has our government ever done
52:14shady [ __ ]
52:17I mean, did we basically dose a bunch of
52:20people with syphilis?
52:21>> Yeah.
52:22>> Have we staged attacks? Have we done the
52:25Bay of Pigs? Have we done all of these
52:27things to like pretend wars and false
52:30flag operations? We do half the country
52:33with LSD against their will. Not half
52:35the country, but lots of people. We've
52:38done some crazy stuff. And then
52:39somebody's like, "No, that but now we're
52:42telling the truth.
52:43>> Now the government's telling the truth."
52:45Uh, just look at past behavior. It's all
52:48you have to do. And there's tons of
52:51stuff to go off of in the past where
52:52they've done crazy stuff. And it doesn't
52:55mean you need to like
52:57go live in a hut on a mountain and never
53:00trust the government again. But it does
53:02mean you just every single thing that
53:04you hear in your mind automatically the
53:07word maybe should instantly come up.
53:09Every time somebody's giving you
53:10anything maybe. That's maybe. Maybe. And
53:13that's the first thing in your head.
53:15>> And the the moment you get that, you
53:17don't go into a situation anymore
53:19thinking like, "Oh, I know what I know
53:21what's going on here. I I know what's
53:22going on." Because then you're just
53:24going to confirm your own beliefs, which
53:26social media is an expert at anyway. And
53:29I will say one more thing with the
53:30scops. This is a huge tangent, man. I'm
53:33sorry.
53:33>> No, it's right on the top.
53:35>> Okay, so with these scops, you need to
53:38really get good at when someone made you
53:41feel clever.
53:43>> That's the [ __ ] that nobody talks about.
53:46And as a very simple example of this,
53:51you hear on the news, let's say you're
53:53watching the evening news and somebody
53:54says, "Coming up after the break, uh, a
53:57local woman, uh, has been reported
54:00missing.
54:02Two witnesses say earlier that day she
54:04was arguing with her boyfriend." Details
54:07after the break.
54:07>> Yeah.
54:08>> And then in your brain, you're like,
54:09"Oh, I know. I know what happened."
54:11>> Right.
54:11>> But they make you feel clever. Uh, and I
54:14do trial consulting. I do a lot of trial
54:17consulting, like picking, helping to
54:18pick juries and and coaching for people
54:22that are in these big trials and stuff.
54:23>> What do you say if you want to get out
54:24of jury duty, by the way? What's the
54:26best thing?
54:27>> It's tough. Uh, cuz I' I've been in a
54:30jury selection one time right here in
54:32uh, North Carolina, and it was me and
54:35uh, another trial guy named Scott Rouse.
54:39And this guy just said he stood up
54:42before anyone started asking questions.
54:43He goes, "Hey, I'm racist."
54:45>> Yeah.
54:45>> And he made it he made it onto the jury.
54:48The judge is like, "No, you're going to
54:49stay here."
54:50>> So, there's not always a It depends on
54:52the judge, whoever the presiding judge
54:54is.
54:55>> Uh if they like you or if you have some
54:59kind of duty to where you have to I
55:00don't know anything about jury
55:02selection, just psychology. I'll leave
55:04that up to the attorney. I know nothing
55:05about the law. Um, but I have seen that
55:08the judge likes you and he thinks you're
55:10contributing to society on the outside
55:12outside the courtroom and your presence
55:15in the courtroom would detract from
55:18>> society as a whole.
55:19>> That's the best way that I've ever seen
55:21to get an attorney would be able to do
55:23it. But
55:23>> well, that's not me then.
55:25>> So, one of the things that we did, and I
55:28don't want to give away any big secrets
55:31or anything. Yeah. So, I I can talk
55:33about this one. This was a one woman
55:37suing a big company. Uh, rightfully so.
55:41And
55:43it, if I could just squeeze this down to
55:45a little short sound bite,
55:48basically what I had the attorney do was
55:51use the word giant three times in his
55:54opening statement and just very casually
55:57gesture over towards opposing counsel.
56:01And then the my client, the person doing
56:05the suing, whatever the plaintiff, I I
56:07think it's called, uh, she has a nephew
56:10named David. And I told her to bring him
56:13up while she's being whatever
56:15cross-examined or whatever it's called,
56:18direct, I think they call it, and bring
56:21bring him up. And then he's talking
56:22about giants. And then he talk about
56:24somebody wearing a blindfold. And then
56:26we mentioned talk talking about throwing
56:28rocks at somebody. the story of David
56:31and Goliath
56:32>> gets put into the juror's heads. But if
56:35I told the attorney to mention David and
56:38Goliath and talk about it openly, what
56:40happens? That's an exogenous idea.
56:44>> Yeah.
56:44>> If a person believes the idea came from
56:47within, they cannot argue with it. They
56:50can't fight it. They won't reason with
56:52it. It's automatically accepted. So
56:54that's what I mean by like if you have
56:56someone come up with their own idea and
56:58feel clever that is the fastest way uh
57:01that manipulation really takes place is
57:03when every time that we feel clever and
57:05they like wait a second I feel smart
57:08right now what's what's going on 100%
57:10>> yeah
57:12more directly what if you if you had to
57:15try to guess how that narrative is being
57:18scoped around the UFO topic right now
57:21what what do you think it is and like
57:23what what the why there if you had to
57:25try to speculate.
57:26>> Uh so if let's look at past behavior.
57:29>> Yeah.
57:29>> So what has happened before even a
57:32company when a company or a government
57:34makes a big decision they workshop it
57:36they test it out they start doing market
57:39testing. It's past behavior proves that
57:42market testing is the thing to do. And
57:43this feels like a big effing market test
57:47of like test for availability
57:49adaptability. Are we going to accept it?
57:51Are we gonna is it gonna collapse the
57:53nation or something if the big UFO thing
57:55comes out? Which I don't know. I have
57:57zero certainty about any of that stuff.
58:01But just look at
58:05if you just look at past behavior and
58:07and look at the
58:09education system, it's not made like the
58:12guy who invented the education system. I
58:14can't remember his name. uh in the US he
58:17went and studied this Prussian
58:20>> uh education system and and direct quote
58:23I think is we need to create workers not
58:26thinkers.
58:27>> Yeah.
58:28>> Um and and that's our school system.
58:30That that's the modern day school
58:32system. Uh definitely not where my kids
58:34go to school, but that is crazy. And
58:38just if if I don't know, maybe this is a
58:41tangent, but I'll stay on the space
58:42thing for a second. We've spent a
58:46bazillion dollars on space and space
58:50exploration and the Mars rovers and the
58:53Cassinis and the all these space
58:56satellites, the James Web.
58:57>> Mhm.
58:58>> Um I have the I have the prototype lens
59:01of the James Web hanging on my wall in
59:03my kitchen. I got to show you later.
59:04>> Oh wow. Yeah.
59:05>> Yeah. You're going to love it. But we
59:08spend all of this money. We spend less
59:11than 0.00001% 00001%
59:13of that money on studying consciousness.
59:16>> Yeah.
59:17>> And have you heard the parable about God
59:20wanting to hide something from us from
59:23people?
59:24>> I don't know.
59:26>> So God is like, "Hey," he calls up all
59:29these animals. He's like, "Hey guys, I'm
59:31about to make humans. Just wanted to
59:33give you a little warning." I'm
59:34paraphrasing the [ __ ] out of this. Um,
59:36but he brings all these animals. He's
59:38like, "I got to hide something from
59:39them. I have to hide the master secret
59:41of every of everything. And the eagle's
59:43like, "Oh, God, give it to me. I'm going
59:46to take it. I'm going to put it on the
59:47highest mountaintop where nobody's ever
59:50going to find it." And God said they'll
59:51eventually find it. And guess what
59:52they're going to do when they find it?
59:54They're going to credit the mountain.
59:57So this mole says, or no, this bison
1:00:00says, "I'm going to hide it in the
1:00:01middle of these fields. I'm going to dig
1:00:03a huge hole, put it underground." God
1:00:05says that humans are going to find it
1:00:06and they're going to credit the field
1:00:08and the plane with the with the secret
1:00:10of the universe and all this stuff.
1:00:13>> And finally, this blind mole comes up
1:00:16and says, "Uh, God, uh, if you want to
1:00:19hide it, you have to put it in them.
1:00:21It's the one place they're never going
1:00:22to look. The only place they're never
1:00:25going to look and explore is
1:00:26themselves."
1:00:27>> Yeah.
1:00:28>> And how unbelievably true is this. And
1:00:32it's just coming to light. And we can
1:00:34see it every day. We can see it in
1:00:35dollars. You can look at revenue and see
1:00:38that this parable is coming true that we
1:00:41won't we won't look at ourselves because
1:00:43it's hard to measure.
1:00:44>> Totally. And what a what a travesty.
1:00:47>> Yeah. And and what's so funny is it's
1:00:50you know it's true when it sounds trit
1:00:54yet it's still true. Like still people
1:00:57don't do the work of looking within. And
1:00:58now we're even more distracted than ever
1:01:01of course. And yeah, I totally concur
1:01:03that I think and this is one of my
1:01:05problems with some of the like main
1:01:08mainstream euphology is it once again
1:01:11externalizes
1:01:12that search to this new savior
1:01:15potentially, right? Like if this thing
1:01:17shows up, this can just be the new proxy
1:01:20for God. This can be the new proxy for
1:01:23whatever, right? And and I think that's
1:01:25a very dangerous place to live
1:01:27epistemically to continue externalizing
1:01:29like that. We want to as as a species,
1:01:32we want to close loops.
1:01:35And I think
1:01:37deep down in like the Carl Jung Yes.
1:01:40>> depths of our brain, we want to close a
1:01:43mystery. And this that's what I think
1:01:46you're you might be saying. Yeah.
1:01:48>> Is like this becomes the new mystery
1:01:50that gets solved, the new thing that
1:01:52explains something. And all it's going
1:01:54to be is the next thing. It won't be the
1:01:57thing. Even if we discover there is
1:01:59these Nordic aliens and everything in
1:02:02the book of Genesis was right and there
1:02:04these big eye things that fly out of the
1:02:05sky. That's just the next thing.
1:02:07>> Yeah.
1:02:07>> And then there's going to be a next
1:02:08thing.
1:02:09>> So
1:02:10when it comes to all of this
1:02:14when it comes to separation like if you
1:02:16define a psych psychopath this guy named
1:02:18Robert Hair came up with the PCR a
1:02:20psychopath checklist basically.
1:02:23Um
1:02:25PCL
1:02:26>> PCR is the test.
1:02:27>> Oh yeah, that's a polyarious chain
1:02:29reaction. Um so this PCL, so it's a
1:02:34psychopath checklist. And this guy named
1:02:36Robert Harris, expert in in psychopaths
1:02:39and and this kind of stuff, but if you
1:02:41were to define what creates a psychopath
1:02:44in one word, it would be separation.
1:02:46>> Yeah.
1:02:47>> And everything that that modern media is
1:02:50doing to us is I'm a little bit separate
1:02:52from my neighbor. I'm a little bit more
1:02:53separate. Let me find the things that
1:02:55make me different from everybody. And
1:02:57our our modern culture is obsessed right
1:03:00now with let me find what makes me
1:03:02different and and what separates me from
1:03:05everybody else instead of what brings us
1:03:07together. And I know you don't talk
1:03:10politics on your show, but whether
1:03:12you're on the right or somebody's on the
1:03:13left, if you go to Target right now
1:03:17versus Well, let me if you could just
1:03:19get on your phone, go to social media,
1:03:21they're going to show you the dumbest
1:03:23piece of [ __ ] on the other side of the
1:03:25aisle
1:03:25>> for sure.
1:03:26>> To make you think they're all batshit
1:03:28crazy.
1:03:28>> Yeah. And but if you go to Target and
1:03:31you see someone that voted right or
1:03:33voted left differently than you, I
1:03:35guarantee you have more in common, 90
1:03:38times more in common with that person
1:03:40than you do with these people who are
1:03:42like engineering this stuff
1:03:44>> totally
1:03:45>> that they want their kids to go to
1:03:46school. They want their kids to be
1:03:48healthy and wellfed. They they hate
1:03:50taxes. They don't trust the government
1:03:52just like you. All of these things like
1:03:54we want peace. Nobody's sitting here
1:03:57wanting war and the destruction of the
1:03:58world and stuff. Uh, and when we see it
1:04:02on social media, going back to another
1:04:04Dr. Phil quote, he calls it the tyranny
1:04:06of the fringe where a small group can
1:04:09get presented to you in a way that makes
1:04:11you look like, oh [ __ ] that's
1:04:12everybody. Everybody's batshit crazy,
1:04:14>> right?
1:04:15>> Uh, but then you go out in reality and
1:04:17we see evidence of it every day, but it
1:04:20doesn't prove to us because we're we're
1:04:23on our phones non-stop. And I'm not
1:04:25saying, oh yeah, divorce your phone, go
1:04:27buy the minimalist e in phone or
1:04:30anything like that.
1:04:31>> But what I am saying is
1:04:33>> not bad advice probably though.
1:04:35>> Yeah.
1:04:36>> Yeah.
1:04:38Two things. Another two things I told my
1:04:40kids when they were growing up. Number
1:04:41one, if any adult ever asks you to keep
1:04:43a secret, you need to be terrified. You
1:04:45need to be horrified and scared.
1:04:49And that protected them many times. No,
1:04:52no grown-up should ever ask you to keep
1:04:53a secret. Number two, you need to be
1:04:56able to spot every time somebody is
1:04:59convincing you that you're separate from
1:05:01something. And the goal of all
1:05:03advertising is a make you compare
1:05:05yourself to other people and b make you
1:05:08think I am not enough yet.
1:05:10>> Those two those are the two big goals.
1:05:11And they're both rooted in separation.
1:05:14>> Um which is like the first hermetic
1:05:17principle is basically saying like when
1:05:20when they say the all is mind, the
1:05:22universe is mental. um is basically
1:05:25saying like this is one thing. There's
1:05:26no separation. You're not separate. And
1:05:30it's like we have a
1:05:33it feels as though I won't say that
1:05:35there's some dark conference room full
1:05:38of consp conspirators somewhere, but it
1:05:41feels like there is an anti-
1:05:44uh spiritual or an anti- or
1:05:47consciousness suppression
1:05:49movement.
1:05:50>> Yeah. or a connectedness suppression
1:05:53that that seems to be active right now.
1:05:57And to quote the late great George
1:06:00Carlin, you don't need a conspiracy when
1:06:03interests are all aligned
1:06:04>> right
1:06:05>> with a lot of these people. So I don't
1:06:06think there a conspiracy is necessary
1:06:08for all of this to be true. I just think
1:06:10it's a lot of people's interests that
1:06:12are getting unbelievably wealthy
1:06:17on some of the because of some of these
1:06:19things. Yes, for sure. For sure. Um,
1:06:22that reminded me of a few different
1:06:23things. Well, before we get too far away
1:06:25from it, I love that you brought up Yung
1:06:26because he was one of the um the the
1:06:29first videos on my channel that did well
1:06:31actually were like Yung related videos.
1:06:34And on this idea of closing the loop,
1:06:37you know, wanting to wrap up a mystery,
1:06:39wanting to get an answer on on some big
1:06:41question, whether it's like UFOs or or
1:06:43something else, I think someone like
1:06:46Jung would seize on the very thing that
1:06:49you're looking to answer through the
1:06:51closure of the loop because in in that
1:06:55lies, you know, wherever the the
1:06:57neurosis is or like closer to the source
1:07:00of the neurosis or something like that
1:07:02and very few of us are willing to look
1:07:04at what's driving the desire for
1:07:06something to be true rather than just
1:07:08trying to get that external answer.
1:07:10>> And I think if we can reorient on what
1:07:12is like driving that desire, it's
1:07:15probably
1:07:16>> the fact that and this is what Young
1:07:18would say again I think and he was
1:07:19definitely arguing this in like Modern
1:07:21Man and Search for a Soul and stuff like
1:07:22that is that we have this like unmet
1:07:25transcendent thirst that we're always
1:07:27like testing. Is this the thing that's
1:07:29going to meet that? Is this the thing
1:07:30that's going to meet that? And it's so
1:07:32obvious with something like UFOs or even
1:07:34politics, honestly. Like you can you can
1:07:36do a lot of the same psychology with
1:07:38like projection onto whoever's into the
1:07:40White House in the White House, good or
1:07:43bad.
1:07:43>> Yeah.
1:07:44>> Uh in a positive or negative direction
1:07:47as you can do on UFOs, right? Like like
1:07:49if Xerson just gets into office, they're
1:07:52going to solve all these problems. Or if
1:07:53X person gets into office, the world is
1:07:55[ __ ] like we're we're like we will
1:07:57>> you need to
1:07:58>> and that's exactly the kind of narrative
1:08:00you see during
1:08:02>> election cycles and as hard as you try
1:08:04to get away from it like how do I get
1:08:06premium everything so I never see a
1:08:08political ad and then you still see
1:08:09political ads it's like impossible to
1:08:11escape the just like cartoonishly
1:08:14ridiculous psychic pressure of of this
1:08:16way of thinking during during elections
1:08:19um and yeah sorry to keep circling back
1:08:22to the UFO issue but it's like the
1:08:23reason I one of the reasons I do think
1:08:25it's so interesting is because it
1:08:26remains nebulous. It's not one of these
1:08:29like really cookie cutter type things
1:08:31where you can say like, "Oh, there's
1:08:32this bad guy like like the scenario that
1:08:34you were pointing out to before like
1:08:36there's this bad guy. He's anti-puppy.
1:08:39Like, you know, we got to, you know, we
1:08:42got to throw him in dre. It's it's not
1:08:43that simple. It's like it's not it's not
1:08:45clear what it is. They're they're not
1:08:47really pushing some really obvious blue
1:08:49bean kind of agenda. Um, there are
1:08:52fearful stories, but there are also
1:08:54positive versions of the narrative that
1:08:56are out there. Like these these beings
1:08:57that these lights in the sky we're
1:08:58seeing, they're angelic beings. They're
1:09:00like they're messages from higher. Yeah.
1:09:03Yeah. And so there's always like
1:09:05>> and and part of that may just be the
1:09:07natural flow of information. And part of
1:09:10it, I mean, as you know, one of the ways
1:09:11to execute a scup as well is to flood
1:09:13the zone, right? Like here's the truth.
1:09:15Here's like 90 pieces of garbage with
1:09:18the truth. Have fun with that. could be
1:09:20one of those kinds of things, right? But
1:09:21>> and let's go past behavior. Have we done
1:09:23that before? Has our government done
1:09:25that before?
1:09:25>> Yes.
1:09:26>> A billion times. Yeah, absolutely. So,
1:09:29one of the things that that's
1:09:30interesting to me about that the UFO
1:09:33[ __ ]
1:09:34>> that's going on right now versus
1:09:36politics.
1:09:37>> Politics, you do have that here's here's
1:09:39what to think. So in ancient times
1:09:44and probably even today, they would
1:09:46train these actors that would go like in
1:09:49even in Roman times when they would do a
1:09:52play, they would train the actor to look
1:09:55back during this big moment with a
1:09:57neutral face and never with like this
1:10:00sadness or anguish or anything on the
1:10:02face. Just this neutral face towards the
1:10:04audience.
1:10:06And what that would do, it would allow
1:10:09the audience to project whatever they
1:10:12felt onto that face.
1:10:15>> So like if if this scene made me sad, I
1:10:18look at a neutral face and see sadness
1:10:20because I can project onto something
1:10:22neutral.
1:10:23>> Yeah.
1:10:24>> So when you want to test a society, you
1:10:28give them something with a neutral face
1:10:32>> and see what they project onto the face.
1:10:34>> Wow.
1:10:36Yeah, that's really interesting. I've
1:10:38never actually thought about it like
1:10:39that. Um, yeah, because in doing that,
1:10:43it shows you, right? It's like, ah,
1:10:45they're primed for this. They want it to
1:10:47be this, so we'll give it to them like
1:10:49that. That that creates some some new
1:10:51mechanism of control potentially.
1:10:53>> Um, yeah, that's that's a very good
1:10:55point. You were you the video you made,
1:10:57it was during the whole drone flap
1:11:00>> thing. What were you What were you
1:11:01>> Yeah, like the Jersey New Jersey drones
1:11:03that were crashing out of the sky. Yeah,
1:11:05that that's one of the only So, this is
1:11:07terminology you'll hear a lot in the UFO
1:11:09realm like flaps. Like there'll just be
1:11:11areas where people like um a flap is
1:11:15like an uptick in activity where a lot
1:11:16of people are seeing something, right?
1:11:18So, there's probably famous cases.
1:11:19>> So, it doesn't mean a fake thing.
1:11:21>> No, no, no. Like it's actually like an
1:11:22uptick of some kind of activity where
1:11:24suddenly all everybody's reporting these
1:11:26kinds of high weirdness or lights in the
1:11:27sky or something like that. Um, but this
1:11:30almost seems like a clearly man-made
1:11:33version of that, right? Where it's like,
1:11:35yeah, they're bigger drones. There are a
1:11:37lot of drones. They're not consumer
1:11:39grade drones, but these don't look like
1:11:41aliens. These look like drones. But
1:11:43then, you know, you start wondering like
1:11:46what what would the reason be to like
1:11:47flood the skies with all these things
1:11:49that are weird looking where nobody
1:11:51quite knows what they're looking at. And
1:11:53that's one of the best possible answers
1:11:55I've heard is that like let's just do
1:11:57this purely not for an outcome but just
1:12:00as a sort of like
1:12:01>> taste test. Yeah. Yeah.
1:12:03>> It's the screening. So like
1:12:05>> it's like bring it I have Taco Bell
1:12:07comes up with a new gordita or whatever.
1:12:10>> I'm going to bring in a little test
1:12:12group, a focus group. Can I give it to
1:12:14them and we're going to do market
1:12:15testing? Um and that may be what it is.
1:12:18And I think in in New Jersey um that
1:12:21that was actually drones. So I think it
1:12:25was proven. I didn't even I didn't look
1:12:27into it very much. I was more concerned
1:12:29with the mind psychology side of it.
1:12:32It's so weird, man, because there was um
1:12:34actually the la I think it was the last
1:12:35time I talked to Danny Gooler. He told
1:12:38me someone who's very intelligent, who I
1:12:41do know who this person is, but he said
1:12:43not to say the name, who's like a cares
1:12:46about their intellectual reputation and
1:12:47is known to be like an intellectual. He
1:12:50said um that this person got a very
1:12:53strong uh during a visionary experience
1:12:57while that was going on got a very
1:12:59unexpected like they were not seeking
1:13:00this or even interfacing much with this
1:13:04drone flap but during that they got a
1:13:06very strong this is real like this is to
1:13:09cover up something real impression like
1:13:11within the visionary experience and they
1:13:13came out of it like whoa. Okay. So, so
1:13:16to be clear, the idea that this drone
1:13:18flap was covering up something else that
1:13:21was going on Yeah.
1:13:22>> was sort of what this person seemed to
1:13:23be pushing forward, which I also thought
1:13:24was interesting, but I also
1:13:27>> Yeah.
1:13:27>> take with kind of a grain of salt.
1:13:28>> Yeah.
1:13:29>> Maybe this is a common term. Um, but in
1:13:34the like the SCOPS industry, this is
1:13:37called like a page six. M
1:13:39>> so like if I have an event that pushes
1:13:41something up, then this thing that I
1:13:42want to I don't want people looking at
1:13:44goes to page six. So the cover of the
1:13:47newspaper is this one thing and then you
1:13:49have to flip all the way back to page
1:13:50six to see this little thing.
1:13:52>> Yeah.
1:13:52>> So that's a page six maneuver. And I'm
1:13:55not saying that that's what it was, but
1:13:58um and if you look at past behavior,
1:14:02they've done it thousands of times. Like
1:14:04in proven CL declassified documents and
1:14:08and FOYA request documents, we've seen
1:14:10them run the same playbook a bazillion
1:14:12times. You don't need to be able to look
1:14:14into the future and analyze the present
1:14:16day as much as people think. You just
1:14:18look at all the stuff in the past and
1:14:20you can see pattern after pattern after
1:14:22pattern. And this is not me being uh a a
1:14:26theorist. There's no theory in what I'm
1:14:28saying at all. It's just there's a
1:14:30demonstrated history of of behavior.
1:14:32>> Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. Totally agree. Um, I I
1:14:35do I would venture a guess though that
1:14:38you probably do think there is something
1:14:41of a there there when it comes to
1:14:44non-human intelligence from some kind of
1:14:47a perspective whether it is like this
1:14:50external
1:14:51wet-bodied thing that's visiting us on
1:14:53the down low or it's another
1:14:56intelligence that's interacting with
1:14:58humanity and probably has been
1:14:59interacting with humanity for a long
1:15:01time or maybe many intelligences.
1:15:02>> Yeah. Um, and the reason I say this is
1:15:06because I know, you know, as we've
1:15:07talked about already, you have kind of
1:15:09gone down the rabbit hole of
1:15:10consciousness exploration, you have had,
1:15:13um, experiences and encounters, it
1:15:15sounds like, with intelligences that
1:15:17probably most people would consider to
1:15:18be entities. Uh, have you had
1:15:21experiences to that effect that have
1:15:23left enough of an onlogical mark on you
1:15:26that you're like, I think that was real?
1:15:28like I think these entities whatever
1:15:30they are are
1:15:31>> yeah please tell me about that
1:15:33>> it just in a way that I knew that it was
1:15:36not self-manufactured
1:15:39if that like it did it felt like it
1:15:40didn't come from within it there was
1:15:42something else going on
1:15:44>> um but I think like for so many of these
1:15:48craft like the little tic tac thing that
1:15:50came out
1:15:51>> and I saw a a scientist on TV saying uh
1:15:55oh there's no way a being could survive
1:15:57a an increase to whatever 20 G's or
1:16:00whatever this or a turn a 90 degree turn
1:16:03on there. It's like bro have you seen a
1:16:04drone?
1:16:06>> Us these little naked hairless monkeys
1:16:09are already coming up with drones and
1:16:12you think this advanced species hadn't
1:16:13come up with that idea yet.
1:16:15>> Yeah.
1:16:16>> What's the deal, right?
1:16:17>> Like what am I missing? So,
1:16:21and I think if we have non-human
1:16:24intelligence, I I would much rather call
1:16:27it a non thisdimensional intelligence.
1:16:30>> Yeah.
1:16:31>> What? Because it may be human. It very
1:16:33much may be us in in some form.
1:16:38>> And when I say the word us, I mean
1:16:39humans. Um not the collective one, but
1:16:44us.
1:16:44>> Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. But
1:16:48if you if you're seeing so much of this
1:16:50being presented as neutral, there's
1:16:52there's a reason for the unusual
1:16:54neutrality.
1:16:55>> Yes.
1:16:56>> Is is the one thing I would say about
1:16:57this stuff.
1:16:58>> And
1:17:00I did I was the as far as I know the
1:17:0341st person to do this introvenous DMT
1:17:08unbelievable unexplainable uh
1:17:11experience. And it was on DMT for like 5
1:17:13hours. And
1:17:16Zach, our producer, who's sitting right
1:17:18over here, who's there with me, filmed
1:17:20the whole thing uh the whole time. I
1:17:21asked if I was dead 39 times. And Zach
1:17:25was like, "Nope, you're okay. You're
1:17:26here." I'm like, "All right." But it it
1:17:29was
1:17:31it's Rogan had the best quote for this.
1:17:34It's like, "It's not like a portal. It's
1:17:37a [ __ ] portal."
1:17:38>> Yeah. it. And I have never met one
1:17:40person in my life, including all the
1:17:42neuroscientists, all the medical doctors
1:17:44that are doing the research.
1:17:46>> I have yet to meet one person who has a
1:17:49done it once or twice and then b
1:17:51believes that it's a hallucination. Not
1:17:54one.
1:17:54>> Yeah,
1:17:55>> I've never I'm sure they're out there.
1:17:57Um, but even these like wellrespected
1:18:00scientists, uh, Andrew Gallammore is,
1:18:03uh, I I love that guy.
1:18:05>> Yeah, I've talked to him a bunch. Yeah,
1:18:06>> he's he's real. Yeah.
1:18:09>> One of the few that's just like a real
1:18:10dude. And
1:18:14I like people like him. Everybody thinks
1:18:17that it's a portal or I'm describing it
1:18:20in a very paraphrasing way, but
1:18:22>> um they they don't use hallucination as
1:18:26as a description for it. And I think
1:18:29even Donald Hoffman talks talked about
1:18:31this maybe on your show.
1:18:32>> Yeah. Yeah. So, what it's been an
1:18:34absolute joy watching Gallamore, for
1:18:37instance, go from wanting to be this
1:18:42very um
1:18:44like I mean, I'm I'm I'm a little bit
1:18:47projecting what I think, but it seems to
1:18:49me, you know, cuz I knew him back when
1:18:51he put out uh like his early books uh uh
1:18:56reality switch technologies and alien
1:18:58information theory, and he would talk
1:19:00about things from much more of a
1:19:01neuroscientific perspective.
1:19:03And everybody always wanted to go to
1:19:04entities, the onlogical implications,
1:19:07these big metaphysical questions. And he
1:19:08would try to stick more to the brain
1:19:10science. And then he kind of like slowly
1:19:13drifted more into you seem more like
1:19:16you're really open to the idea of the
1:19:17brain being more of a kind of like
1:19:19transducer of consciousness rather than
1:19:22generator of consciousness. And then he
1:19:24started talking about William James and
1:19:25like very similar ideas. And now he's
1:19:27just like, I'm an idealist. and and he
1:19:29and Don Hoffman have like collaborated
1:19:31publicly now in this uh Trace Institute
1:19:33talk that they gave together. So he's
1:19:35like full-blown idealist philosopher
1:19:37now, which is awesome. Um but yeah, um
1:19:42where were we just before that?
1:19:44>> Oh, right. The portal. The portal. Yes.
1:19:46>> I love
1:19:49more than almost anything else. I love
1:19:51watching somebody
1:19:53>> make that transition from materialist
1:19:56reductionism to like oh [ __ ] we don't
1:19:58know anything
1:20:00>> like and like you have you have more
1:20:03questions when you make that leap
1:20:05instead of less.
1:20:06>> Totally.
1:20:07>> And that's the opposite that science
1:20:08wants to go. Science wants to go with
1:20:10less questions which is in the opposite
1:20:12direction. More certainty less
1:20:14questions.
1:20:14>> Yeah. that even just that shift in
1:20:16disposition like or or whether it's a
1:20:20shift in disposition or it's just a
1:20:21difference in approach whenever I'm
1:20:23interfacing with an int intellectual or
1:20:26scientist or philosopher who seems like
1:20:28they're trying to like shrink the scope
1:20:30of reality so that it makes more sense
1:20:32to them and fits into their theory
1:20:34better. I'm always just like I don't
1:20:36think so. But when but when you can
1:20:38sense that they're like wonderf facing
1:20:40and they know that they're trying to
1:20:41bottle the ineffable and that that's
1:20:43like ultimately an impossible task. Like
1:20:46that's the sense you get from talking to
1:20:47Hoffman for instance. He's always like
1:20:50>> a highest level genius you'll ever talk
1:20:53to. I think has the most interesting
1:20:56leading edge theory on the relationship
1:20:58between consciousness and our perceived
1:21:00reality. All of that stuff. and has
1:21:02probably gone the furthest in terms of
1:21:04like pushing idealism back into the
1:21:08mainstream conversation. But he'll also
1:21:09be like, I'm probably wrong and I'll
1:21:10probably get proven wrong and that's
1:21:12okay. Um because he knows that what
1:21:14whatever we're dealing with is like very
1:21:16much,
1:21:18>> if not ineffable, it's such an
1:21:20infantessimally tiny part of the, you
1:21:23know, the the aperture that it's
1:21:26ridiculous to to think that we're ever
1:21:27going to capture it within a theory. Uh,
1:21:30so yeah, I I love seeing that as well.
1:21:32>> Yeah. It's like you took a vacation to
1:21:34Italy or something.
1:21:35>> Yeah.
1:21:35>> And took in all the sights that you
1:21:37could through a McDonald's straw,
1:21:40>> right?
1:21:40>> Like a drinking straw.
1:21:41>> Yeah.
1:21:42>> I'm like, but you saw something true.
1:21:44You didn't see the truth.
1:21:46>> Exactly. the thing itself. You could be
1:21:48looking at the Mona Lisa like one foot
1:21:50away from it through a straw and you
1:21:53would in you could tell people
1:21:54legitimately you were staring at the
1:21:56Mona Lisa but you're looking at
1:21:59a tiny tiny
1:22:00>> piece of it and I I totally agree with
1:22:04you. I I love seeing that happen. So So
1:22:07when you oriented your straw into the
1:22:09mysterium tremendum that is introvenous
1:22:11DMT for 5 hours,
1:22:14what happened? I need to I need to hear
1:22:16the whole the whole experience unpacked
1:22:18if you don't mind.
1:22:20>> It was uh it was ontological shock.
1:22:24Massive ontological shock and
1:22:29I didn't the one time like I didn't have
1:22:32many beings
1:22:34>> but I my wife uh her name is Michelle
1:22:37came with me the night before we were
1:22:39going to do everything. We went to these
1:22:40people's house in uh in Denver and I was
1:22:44talking to his wife
1:22:47uh who is a nurse, so she does the
1:22:49injection and and all that kind of
1:22:50stuff. And he takes my wife into the
1:22:54kitchen. I'm not sure. I have no idea
1:22:56what they're doing. And she goes in
1:22:59there without ever telling me and
1:23:01without me knowing anything. He's like,
1:23:03"You can select the the vial that we're
1:23:05going to use for Chase tomorrow." And
1:23:07she's like, "Oh, wow. She gets to pick
1:23:09like these two vials that's going to be
1:23:11injected into my body.
1:23:13Uh so she picks them and then this guy
1:23:18he I I don't want to say his name, but
1:23:21he says, "Michelle, do you want to pray
1:23:22over them or do you want to hold them?
1:23:24You can do whatever you want. You know,
1:23:25it's do whatever you want." So
1:23:27Michelle's like, "Oh, yeah. It's a great
1:23:28idea." So she holds them over her heart.
1:23:30She prays over them. She asks them to
1:23:33fix my heart and my brain.
1:23:35um is I I have a heart thing that was
1:23:38that was going on at the time. And the
1:23:42first thing I I had no idea she did
1:23:44this. And the moment that they started
1:23:46pushing that stuff, like I skyrocketed
1:23:50into this other dimension. And instantly
1:23:52there was like a hand pressing my head
1:23:55back onto a like a table, the stainless
1:23:58steel table. And there were four or five
1:24:01beings standing around the bed. And the
1:24:04first thing that happens is this
1:24:06incision from like all the way at my
1:24:08pelvis all the way up to my neck. this
1:24:10massive incision
1:24:12and it was more real than this.
1:24:14>> Wow.
1:24:15>> Not scary at all. There's nothing scary
1:24:18about it. It was very these beings were
1:24:20very like indifferent.
1:24:22>> Uh like it's not like they were there,
1:24:24oh, you're going to be okay. It's just
1:24:26they were just doing their job.
1:24:28>> Wow.
1:24:29>> Like going through a car wash. But it
1:24:31was like 45 minutes long. Uh they I
1:24:35could hear my organs moving around and
1:24:37feel them like and it's it's so hard to
1:24:40explain this to somebody who hasn't kind
1:24:42of like at least
1:24:43>> Yeah.
1:24:44>> kind of dip their toe in that water.
1:24:47>> Um but then this they held my head back
1:24:50on the table and this drill bit that I'm
1:24:52estimating was like this long goes all
1:24:55the way up into my nose. Freezing cold.
1:24:57I could feel it go all the way to the
1:24:59back of my skull so hard that it held my
1:25:01head onto the table and some stuff came
1:25:05out of it. I don't know how I'm not
1:25:06gonna pretend to understand any of that,
1:25:08but that was like a 45minute thing that
1:25:10that happened and I was like what what
1:25:13is the purpose of this? Um and then only
1:25:17later I discovered that uh she had asked
1:25:19them to do that and the rest of this
1:25:20entire thing was just
1:25:24I I can't like it for me to start
1:25:27describing it. I feel like I would
1:25:28destroy it instantly destroy it to try
1:25:30to put it into words. It you can't
1:25:33>> it's like you're spending time in
1:25:34another dimension. That that's the only
1:25:37way that I can say it. And the way that
1:25:38this guy who runs this program,
1:25:42the best description of DMT that I've
1:25:44ever heard in my life is so simple. And
1:25:47he says, "DMT is really big.
1:25:52>> It's big."
1:25:53>> Yeah.
1:25:53>> It's bigger than anything you've ever
1:25:55seen, including like of this observable
1:25:57universe. Like DMT is bigger than that.
1:26:00>> And it doesn't make sense until like I
1:26:02went in there, I was like, "Oh, like
1:26:04this is really big." Mhm.
1:26:06>> Um, and then starting to come out of
1:26:09this uh process, I I was crying. I was
1:26:15depressed to come back. I was depressed.
1:26:18I I didn't want to like that felt like
1:26:20home.
1:26:22So, when people do like mushrooms or
1:26:24something, you'd be like, "What the hell
1:26:25is going on? What is this?" But on DMT,
1:26:29you look back at this world wondering
1:26:31what the hell this is,
1:26:32>> right?
1:26:33>> And that feels like home. M
1:26:35>> like absolute home. Uh so coming back
1:26:38here it felt like I had to develop
1:26:43just a a little bit of narcissism to
1:26:46survive. Like I had to like build up an
1:26:48ego on my way home or I would not
1:26:51survive being back here.
1:26:54>> And I remember trying to stay and like
1:26:57like I don't I don't care. I don't want
1:26:58to go back. I don't I don't want to go
1:27:00back to Earth. I'm done. that everyone
1:27:04that I've ever talked to that feels like
1:27:05home. And we look back at Earth and like
1:27:08what the [ __ ] is that? Yeah.
1:27:10>> What is that thing where I came from
1:27:12>> But on a lot of other psychedelics,
1:27:13you're like, what what I'm Yeah. The
1:27:16experience itself is the thing that's
1:27:17disorienting.
1:27:19>> So coming back, I was weeping and and
1:27:22crying and
1:27:25uh just knowing that I had to come back
1:27:27to and have like of course I have a
1:27:31little ego. Everybody's got some ego,
1:27:33>> but it felt like I had to develop
1:27:37>> narcissism to come to come back here. It
1:27:40totally makes sense and it and it really
1:27:41gels with everything I'm interested in
1:27:44metaphysically from like Pltonism,
1:27:46hermeticism, stuff like that because
1:27:48>> you know if you if you get into the sort
1:27:51of subtle body anatomy and doctrines and
1:27:55this exists in the eastern stuff as well
1:27:57obviously the the physical portion of
1:27:59the self as like the like just just in
1:28:03the same way physical reality is sort of
1:28:05like the lowest level emanation you know
1:28:07if if you're of like the gnostic
1:28:09persuasion you think it's more of like
1:28:10some kind of prison or something, but
1:28:12from the Platonic hermetic point of
1:28:14view, it's more like this is a natural
1:28:16condensation and outflowing of this of
1:28:19this oneness emanating outward. And as
1:28:21it gets like conditioned more and more,
1:28:24it takes on more and more rigid
1:28:26conceptual layers until those layers
1:28:28become literal and externalized stuff.
1:28:31And um humans are basically the same
1:28:34thing. Like we have these this this
1:28:36outer body and then we have these like
1:28:38various layers of subtle bodies until
1:28:40you get into the completely freed soul
1:28:43that has that has no ego that has no
1:28:46senses. And they also what's interesting
1:28:49is they talk about this soul sense and
1:28:51they often talk about it very similarly
1:28:53to people who have um a near-death
1:28:55experience where suddenly you have this
1:28:57kind of
1:28:58>> different kind of sensory apparatus
1:29:00where it might be like 360. you have
1:29:02awareness of things that are not like
1:29:04you can't just be like I saw it or I
1:29:06felt it. It's like an all-encompassing
1:29:07sort of seeing feeling everything all at
1:29:10once kind of feeling. And it it just
1:29:13seems like in those states you're
1:29:15getting closer and closer to that fully
1:29:17liberated soul sense or or whatever it
1:29:20is where you're much closer to these
1:29:23deeper layers of reality that are like
1:29:25closer to the truth. Yeah. And then just
1:29:27to your point, I think it entails you
1:29:30would have to like reconstruct the ego
1:29:33when you come back down because it
1:29:34almost wouldn't make sense. Like there's
1:29:36this neoplatonic philosopher named
1:29:38Platitus who would do these um these
1:29:40like ascent these like visionary ascent
1:29:43practices that no one really understands
1:29:44how he was doing. But he talks about it
1:29:46very much like meditation. He talks
1:29:48about the need to remove yourself from
1:29:50sensory input, you know, go inward, all
1:29:52these things. And he talks about getting
1:29:54into this state where he um finds his
1:29:57undescended higher self and he quote
1:29:59unquote walks in the knowetic and then
1:30:02he's confused when he comes back down
1:30:04into his body because he's like I know
1:30:06that I'm more that than I am this thing
1:30:10but yet I have like I'm stuck. I just
1:30:12have to be in this state for now. And it
1:30:15very much reminds me of of that
1:30:16sensation that you just described.
1:30:18>> Yeah. Um, so yeah, I think there's
1:30:20there's probably many ways to approach
1:30:22that. And I think most of us probably
1:30:25need something like that to get there
1:30:26these days because so few of us are
1:30:28going to go do the like hard aesthetic
1:30:31work of purification and a lifetime of
1:30:34philosophy and then removing yourself
1:30:37from sensory input for like days on end
1:30:39or whatever it takes. Like
1:30:41>> yeah,
1:30:41>> that's probably what it's going to take
1:30:43for most of us to blast us out of the
1:30:45construct.
1:30:46>> Well, that's the Morpheus. Yeah,
1:30:47>> that's the Morpheus moment. You want to
1:30:49take this red pill?
1:30:51>> Uh that's kind of the that's the matrix
1:30:53pill. And like I can't explain DMT. I
1:30:57don't think it has uh people will
1:30:59analyze the physical ways that it works
1:31:01on some uh G-type subunit receptor in a
1:31:06lian gated ion channel in the in the
1:31:08brain. And
1:31:10>> I think there's more to it.
1:31:12>> That's all I can say. I think there's a
1:31:14lot more to it. there's it's almost like
1:31:16a sentience uh to that stuff.
1:31:19>> And at the end of the day, like we see
1:31:22this so many times when somebody is
1:31:26starting the work of like
1:31:29I think a lot of people would call
1:31:30themselves enlightened or awakened. I I
1:31:32think that I am nowhere near any of
1:31:35that. Uh and I think feeling and calling
1:31:39yourself any of those things might be
1:31:42>> a red flag, but I don't know. But I I
1:31:45feel I still feel like I'm the world
1:31:48expert in and all this stuff and people
1:31:50call me this world. I still feel like
1:31:52imposttor syndrome. I like I have
1:31:55>> I I have all these things that say like
1:31:59this you're doing great and then I'm
1:32:01like well maybe not. Yeah,
1:32:02>> maybe I'm not. But I think at the end of
1:32:05the day, if
1:32:08the number one thing, if you go back
1:32:104,500 years, the number one thing that
1:32:12people carry back
1:32:14uh from every one of those experiences
1:32:17is the lack of separation. It's the I
1:32:20think it's the most common thing that
1:32:21you feel that you experience that you're
1:32:23shown is that you're you're not a
1:32:26separate little eye,
1:32:28>> right? uh at all and that there's
1:32:30something there like there's and then
1:32:32you study the observer and like there's
1:32:35an observer there. But
1:32:36>> yeah,
1:32:37>> it's a great metaphor.
1:32:39>> Definitely,
1:32:39>> it's a great metaphor.
1:32:40>> Maybe it's not an important thing to get
1:32:42hung up on, but I'm sure a lot of people
1:32:43are curious. When you had this sort of
1:32:45like um psychic surgery moment during
1:32:50that trip, did the beings have a
1:32:52discernable look to them? Was it
1:32:54anything that you'd recognize as a X Y
1:32:57or Z or was it just like a
1:33:00sense of beings or what what was it
1:33:02like? My eyes were pushed uh back and I
1:33:06don't know why I like why do we invent
1:33:08eyeballs
1:33:10because they weren't my eyes.
1:33:12>> Yeah.
1:33:12>> And and we even invent a body and we
1:33:14invent fake eyes to dream. Uh
1:33:17>> right. But in this thing, the eyes that
1:33:20I was using, um, which my realized were
1:33:23behind a blindfold and closed, right? I
1:33:25wasn't using them, but they were pushed
1:33:28back, but when I looked, it was kind of
1:33:30a mantis.
1:33:32>> Wow.
1:33:33>> Like kind of a creature. And the weird
1:33:35thing is, I will eat just about any bug
1:33:38out there. I'll eat live centipedes, uh,
1:33:42snakes. I don't care. This is where you
1:33:43and I disagree.
1:33:46But I have a a praying mantis phobia.
1:33:49>> Wow.
1:33:50>> Crazily like irrational. I'll turn into
1:33:53a three-year-old child around a mantis,
1:33:56but I'll step on a rattlesnake and I'll
1:33:58I'll do all kinds of stuff. Um, and I I
1:34:01had no fear of these beings, even though
1:34:04they looked like they had the little
1:34:05swivel head, you know, that weird uh
1:34:08movement of the like a mantis head. They
1:34:10had that kind of stuff,
1:34:12>> but they were mantisike. I wouldn't say
1:34:14that it was a mantis.
1:34:16>> Right. Right.
1:34:17>> Um, and we've been seeing pretty much
1:34:21the same 10, 15 beings, entities for all
1:34:25of recorded history through a lot of
1:34:27these journeys and stuff, man.
1:34:29>> Yeah.
1:34:29>> And it looks like people are going to
1:34:31the same place or like a similar place.
1:34:35Well, like Earth, for example, like you
1:34:36could say, "Oh, Earth is great." And but
1:34:38you're describing Detroit.
1:34:40>> Yeah.
1:34:40>> Instead of Fiji. You know what I mean?
1:34:43like we're describing stuff. It seems to
1:34:46have some harmonics to like it's we
1:34:48might be in two different locations or
1:34:50two different planes of that place,
1:34:53>> but it seems to be the same overall
1:34:55general place.
1:34:56>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. these these beings that
1:34:59are like so perplexing to look at from
1:35:02Egyptian myth or you know Greco Egyptian
1:35:05mystery cults um there what is that word
1:35:08when it's a mix of human and animals
1:35:11like peranthropic
1:35:13or
1:35:14>> yeah whatever the word whatever the word
1:35:16is yeah you know birdheaded beings uh
1:35:19you know lionheaded beings whatever um
1:35:23there's a uh for for instance like
1:35:26within the the mythraic mysteries. This
1:35:28is one of these mystery cults that we
1:35:29still know a lot about cuz it was not as
1:35:32ancient, but it seemed to be this um
1:35:35Roman kind of catchall for several
1:35:39different cultural kind of ideas like it
1:35:41was preserving a lot of the Hellenic
1:35:43mystery traditions and Egyptian stuff um
1:35:46and like Iranian stuff but um once again
1:35:50don't know what the mechanism was.
1:35:51There's some stuff from I think like the
1:35:53Greek magical papy papyrie that talks
1:35:55about some weird substance that they
1:35:57use, but no one knows what the substance
1:35:59was. But there was this ascent thing
1:36:02that occurred where you'd go through
1:36:03these various planes and there'd be
1:36:05these various beings and like keepers at
1:36:07each layer and they were trying to get
1:36:09to this like central sun and they called
1:36:11it a vision a vision of Helios Mithros.
1:36:14So, it's like this some some kind of
1:36:16like sun deity, which very much sounds
1:36:18like a like an all-encompassing oneness
1:36:21>> like 5me,
1:36:22>> right? Yeah.
1:36:24>> But there are like these guardian uh
1:36:26peranthropic again, I don't know if I'm
1:36:28saying that word right, beings of like
1:36:30different different heads, different
1:36:31whatever at each layer that were almost
1:36:34like you needed to know how to get past
1:36:36them or you needed to do something to
1:36:37get past them. So yeah, it's and again
1:36:40like you know hieroglyphics from across
1:36:43the world, South America, Egypt,
1:36:45wherever, there's always this idea of
1:36:47these
1:36:48beings that are both anthropomorphic but
1:36:50also have these kind of, you know, heads
1:36:53like other creatures. I'm assuming these
1:36:55beings that you encountered, did they
1:36:57feel like they had human morphology or
1:37:01did they feel fully like mantises?
1:37:03>> No, there were some humanness
1:37:06for sure. They were like 7, 8t tall,
1:37:09give or take. I'm I'm laying on a table.
1:37:11I can't tell.
1:37:12>> Yeah.
1:37:12>> And it's I'm in I'm shocked. Like I had
1:37:16death by astonishment, you know, for the
1:37:18for five straight hours.
1:37:20>> And
1:37:22I
1:37:25It's so difficult to explain that to
1:37:27anybody. And the difference between like
1:37:31drugs and medicine.
1:37:33>> Yeah. And like if you if you just look
1:37:35at something like mushrooms, they're
1:37:38non-addictive. They're not toxic. They
1:37:41don't have a toxic like level. You can't
1:37:43>> Yeah.
1:37:44>> OD. Um they're less addictive than like
1:37:48water. Uh it's just uh and it and it
1:37:52heals. It's like one of the most
1:37:55effective
1:37:57drugs uh ever tested. And then we have
1:38:00these other things that people are
1:38:01taking for like epilepsy medication that
1:38:05is a neurotoxin. It's a neurotoxin.
1:38:09Um it's it's just I think the the whole
1:38:12entire discussion I don't know how the
1:38:13hell I jumped onto this road, but
1:38:16>> this this whole discussion of
1:38:19like drugs versus medicine,
1:38:21>> I think there's a massive difference.
1:38:22And I think a lot of people don't know
1:38:25that there's a huge difference between a
1:38:27lot of this stuff. And it's hard to
1:38:30convince somebody that this like I might
1:38:32mention like doing a therapeutic work
1:38:35with with mushrooms. They're like, "Oh,
1:38:37I don't know." Yeah. Yeah. I smoked weed
1:38:39in high school.
1:38:40>> Yeah. Right.
1:38:41>> What?
1:38:41>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:38:42>> How like how the hell are you equating
1:38:45any of these things with each other?
1:38:46>> Has there been a more effective SC up in
1:38:48history than the word drug?
1:38:50>> Yeah. you know, just like the idea of
1:38:52putting so many different things that
1:38:54have no business even being compared to
1:38:56one another under the same uh umbrella
1:38:59be like because they're all psychoactive
1:39:03molecules of some kind. Like that's
1:39:05mind-blowingly yeah
1:39:06>> ridiculously sloppy epistemology. So
1:39:10George Loff wrote this book called
1:39:13Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things.
1:39:16>> Cool title. It was the first three
1:39:18linguistic categories that we developed
1:39:21as he believed it. And but he talks
1:39:24about how categories define reality and
1:39:28we don't realize it. So like if I if I
1:39:32had a disagreement with my wife last
1:39:34night, then we disagreed. If I'm in a
1:39:36fight with my wife, what do you do in a
1:39:37fight? What's your goal?
1:39:39>> Win.
1:39:40>> Yeah.
1:39:40>> I'm going to I'm going to win. And now
1:39:42my wife and I are at war with each
1:39:43other. like all of these little ways
1:39:45that we categorize things that
1:39:47automatically come with these other
1:39:49things. So like we use metaphors to
1:39:51categorize and we use uh etmology and
1:39:55and words to to categorize things. But I
1:39:59think that these have been deategorized
1:40:01into one little thing to where me
1:40:05getting an EpiPen
1:40:08and heroin are both under the same word,
1:40:12>> right? uh something that's going to save
1:40:14someone's life and something that will
1:40:16destroy your life are both drugs,
1:40:19>> right?
1:40:19>> Um it which is weird. It feels kind of
1:40:22like a scup on its own. It really does.
1:40:24Yeah. I mean, not to get off topic in
1:40:27this direction, but when you go back to
1:40:28like the '8s DARE programs and stuff
1:40:31like the that was one of the most
1:40:33successful cultural movements, I think
1:40:36probably in in history when you still
1:40:38had a centralized enough channel of
1:40:41indoctrinating massive amounts of people
1:40:44like through mainstream like media,
1:40:46through like, you know, Reagan and his
1:40:48wife on down through this public school
1:40:50system and just like propagating this
1:40:53this idea, this fear like it really
1:40:55really worked and really took hold to a
1:40:57point where I think we're all still
1:40:58feeling that hangover now like of u and
1:41:02it takes a very courageous person
1:41:04seemingly less and less so it's becoming
1:41:06more acceptable to talk about a lot of
1:41:08these things now but even in the amount
1:41:10of time I've been doing p like I started
1:41:11doing audio podcast about 10 years ago
1:41:14and I remember like being like really
1:41:16like oh should I talk about this like
1:41:17this is super edgy um unless and then
1:41:20you get into that sort of psychedelic
1:41:21community and eventually the edgginess
1:41:23wears off but At first it feels like
1:41:25this is this is not what I was taught.
1:41:27Like I got to be careful who I say this
1:41:28to. Um but yeah, the needle's moving on
1:41:31that conversation I think for sure.
1:41:32>> Big time.
1:41:33>> But but yeah, the and then it and it
1:41:35also downstream of this taboo makes it
1:41:38ridiculous to to think that oh you think
1:41:41you're going to take a drug and you're
1:41:42going to see higher beings and they're
1:41:44going to somehow heal you through magic
1:41:46like
1:41:46>> Yeah.
1:41:47>> Yeah. I kind of do. I mean, it sounds
1:41:50ridiculous when you put it that way, but
1:41:51I mean, wait till you experience it
1:41:53because
1:41:55>> to your point, like just maybe this
1:41:57isn't your point exactly, but a point
1:41:59that harmonizes with your point.
1:42:02Is there kinds of things that make sense
1:42:04in those spaces that make absolutely
1:42:07perfect sense, like you know them to be
1:42:08true in ways that would make no sense
1:42:11right now? Yeah. Yeah.
1:42:12>> Like if I just said, "Hey, there's man
1:42:14beings all around you right now and
1:42:16they're doing this thing and they're
1:42:17like painlessly cutting you open and
1:42:20they're you're just like what?" But but
1:42:23in those states that can seem more real
1:42:25than sitting here right now and it makes
1:42:27complete perfect sense
1:42:28>> by an exponential factor.
1:42:30>> An exponential factor. And it seems so
1:42:33real when you're up there.
1:42:35>> Coming back here for the first couple of
1:42:37weeks makes all of this look like a
1:42:39shitty watercolor
1:42:40>> painting. like really low resolution.
1:42:43>> Yeah.
1:42:43>> Like you're up there in 2000K
1:42:46>> and you come down here and everything
1:42:47looks like 240p.
1:42:48>> Yeah.
1:42:49>> Resolution.
1:42:50>> That's crazy.
1:42:51>> But yeah, and and you're up there and it
1:42:52just makes perfect sense. And it seems
1:42:56to have laws though. It seems to have
1:43:00space of some kind that can be governed.
1:43:02there's some
1:43:05laws there that that the beings are
1:43:08operating on some universal law because
1:43:11I don't think anybody's ever done DMT
1:43:13and like oh man I I did DMT and I was in
1:43:16like I was curled up in the scrotum of a
1:43:20dragon the whole time like I don't think
1:43:22that happens man like they cannot have
1:43:24the same [ __ ] happen to them
1:43:26>> and I I it definitely happened to me. I
1:43:27wanted to ask you one question while we
1:43:29were in the car. Yeah, but we'll do it
1:43:30on here. You can just cut it out if you
1:43:32want to. Do you think there are
1:43:33hieroglyphics in the Grand Canyon?
1:43:35>> Oh, wow. Yeah, that's an interesting
1:43:37question. I know that story of a um I
1:43:40forget the guy's name who supposedly
1:43:42went down that river and discovered the
1:43:45the caverns and then these caverns
1:43:48supposedly had all these artifacts in
1:43:50them, including things that look like
1:43:51Buddhas and Egyptian hieroglyphs and
1:43:54various things. And then this is one of
1:43:56the elements of or chapters of this this
1:44:01rumor that the Smithsonian comes in and
1:44:03they like take all the stuff and they,
1:44:05you know, put it in some warehouse
1:44:07somewhere and classify it and scrub it.
1:44:10>> Um, and I don't know. I mean, you see
1:44:11these people who, you know, try to go to
1:44:15these forbidden parts of the Grand
1:44:16Canyon and I don't know what to make of
1:44:18it. It's super fascinating. But, um, you
1:44:21know, is it just because, hey, it's
1:44:22super dangerous. you are not allowed to
1:44:24like go repel down here or whatever. Or
1:44:27is it because there's truly something
1:44:29hidden? I have no idea. But it is it's
1:44:31something I'm very curious about for
1:44:32sure because once again that calls into
1:44:34question so many things about history
1:44:36and you know what we think how we think
1:44:39we got here, who we think lived here,
1:44:41how advanced we think they or we were,
1:44:44all suddenly goes into question.
1:44:46>> And if if you look at like
1:44:49the the size of that area is massive.
1:44:52the that part of the Grand Canyon that's
1:44:54like forbidden to go to. Uh
1:44:59the there are thousands of places all
1:45:03throughout Yellowstone, all over the all
1:45:05over the country that are dangerous as
1:45:07hell that you can just go to. You can go
1:45:11right to a cliff, right?
1:45:12>> Yeah. Um, so there's either a some kind
1:45:16of crazy more danger, which I highly
1:45:19doubt, or b something else is really
1:45:21going on there. And I think a discovery
1:45:23was made there. I watched I gosh, I wish
1:45:26I could remember the guy's name. He was
1:45:28on Rogan um I don't a couple weeks
1:45:31before I was, but he pul he had Jamie
1:45:35pull these things up on the screen
1:45:37>> and there's like a sphinx shaped thing
1:45:40in the Grand Canyon. Have you seen this?
1:45:42>> I don't know if I've seen that
1:45:43specifically.
1:45:44>> Oh,
1:45:45>> is it like a rock formation?
1:45:47>> Yeah, like it's like it's got the little
1:45:48hands and like you can see a remnants of
1:45:50something that was on top.
1:45:52>> Wow.
1:45:52>> U man, I think
1:45:56it just every we have a mountain of
1:45:58evidence that history is not what it
1:46:00seems or history is different than what
1:46:03we think it is. And I think we're on the
1:46:06verge of making a lot of these
1:46:07discoveries. We just discovered the
1:46:09non-commodi scrolls in
1:46:12>> the last 100 years.
1:46:14>> Yes.
1:46:14>> Um it lasts 75 years
1:46:17>> and I think it's just the beginning. But
1:46:21every generation tends to think, "Oh, we
1:46:23were stupid back then, but now we now we
1:46:26now we have it."
1:46:27>> Yeah.
1:46:27>> And we'll laugh at ourselves in the
1:46:29past, but now we have it.
1:46:31>> And every time I hear like that word
1:46:34maybe is is always in my brain. I always
1:46:36want to say maybe for everything. This
1:46:38guy named Ignaz Simlvvice, you know,
1:46:41>> I I recall that name, but I can't
1:46:43remember where from.
1:46:44>> He was the doctor who kind of was like,
1:46:46"Hey, what if we start washing our hands
1:46:49between all these operating room
1:46:51patients?"
1:46:51>> Yeah.
1:46:52>> And he he was essentially killed because
1:46:56of it. He was put in an in insane asylum
1:46:58and died in there
1:46:59>> cuz he thought there were these little
1:47:00things crawling around called germs.
1:47:02>> Yeah. Uh but they laughed at him so much
1:47:06uh that he lost his medical license and
1:47:10there I'm probably stripping that of
1:47:12some nuance but
1:47:14that's the same place we're in today
1:47:16when it comes to science is you think
1:47:19this is real and you get laughed out of
1:47:21the out of the room because you're not
1:47:23following the the dogma then it's a hell
1:47:26of a shame.
1:47:27>> Totally. Yeah. And I think consciousness
1:47:29or conscious agents, to use Don
1:47:32Hoffman's term, or whatever this other
1:47:34realm is, might be the the germ theory
1:47:38of tomorrow, right? It might be this
1:47:40plane that we can't see in yet,
1:47:43>> but it's like,
1:47:44>> yeah,
1:47:45>> I was hinting at that so your audience
1:47:46would feel clever for thinking.
1:47:49>> Sorry. Sorry. Pop the magical bubble.
1:47:51>> Yeah, that's that is
1:47:54it's it's the final frontier. We think
1:47:56it's space.
1:47:58I I think it's it's within. And I think
1:48:00looking within, we can't even define
1:48:03consciousness,
1:48:05much less like discover what it is or
1:48:07what it's made out of. Yeah.
1:48:08>> And we're out here like poking rocks on
1:48:10Mars, which is cool. Like we need to do
1:48:12a lot of this stuff, but I think a lot
1:48:14more money needs to go to consciousness
1:48:16research and figure out like what the
1:48:18hell is this?
1:48:19>> What is this?
1:48:21>> Yeah.
1:48:21>> Um is it real?
1:48:24>> And how do we define real? because you
1:48:27can prove that it's real the same way
1:48:28that you can inside of a dream
1:48:31and it just seems like we've got more to
1:48:34learn.
1:48:35>> Oh yeah, that's for sure. That's for
1:48:36sure. Um have you So in the uh extended
1:48:40state DMT trials they did at Imperial
1:48:42College, there's this um amazing very
1:48:47brilliant dude who's also very feet
1:48:49planted firmly on the ground named
1:48:50Alexander Biner who was he was part of
1:48:52the the trials at Imperial College. So
1:48:55he was one of the very first people
1:48:57going through this. Um and he was
1:48:59telling me they've done or are planning
1:49:01to do other studies where they're seeing
1:49:04if there's like agreeance upon the space
1:49:07amongst multiple participants like to
1:49:09see if they can actually replicate are
1:49:13you seeing anything similar to what I'm
1:49:15seeing? Is there something about the
1:49:17space itself that we can say yes this is
1:49:19here this is here and then is that
1:49:20repeatable? And then of course that
1:49:22would be like at least a very lowlevel
1:49:25resolution early attempt to start
1:49:27mapping and defining the space. And if
1:49:29you can do that then you're starting to
1:49:31prove that there is some kind of agreed
1:49:32upon thing that's being experienced. And
1:49:35I think that goes toward um at least a
1:49:38direction that science might be more
1:49:40comfortable with because now you're
1:49:41talking about mapping something that and
1:49:44that's much harder to just reject out of
1:49:45hand as like a hallucination.
1:49:47>> I don't think it's very hard for them to
1:49:48reject out of hand. I think if they
1:49:50figured out a way to make that map of
1:49:52hyperspace like tomorrow, I don't think
1:49:56it wouldn't even see that anywhere
1:49:58outside of a fringe. It would be people
1:50:01like us be like, "Oh, holy [ __ ] This
1:50:02big thing everybody else, nah,
1:50:05>> that's just happen stance." And they'll
1:50:06they'll explain it away the same way
1:50:08they do with the telepathy tapes and all
1:50:10this other stuff that's just like wild.
1:50:12>> Yeah.
1:50:13>> Unexplainable. Wild. And and these kids,
1:50:18these kids on the telepathy tapes, they
1:50:20all meet up together in hyperspace in
1:50:23some layer of reality.
1:50:24>> Yeah. I've heard this. Yeah. The hill or
1:50:26something they call it.
1:50:27>> Yeah.
1:50:27>> Yeah. And I know uh a woman, her name is
1:50:30Dalia. Her daughter was really big on
1:50:33this uh on the telepathy tapes. Y um
1:50:39one of the I think I think it was Deli
1:50:42one of the stories she said uh her
1:50:45daughter was kind of trying to explain
1:50:46these friends and she said just tell
1:50:48your friend to have her mom call me give
1:50:51her my number and the friend was in
1:50:53Sydney Australia
1:50:55and called her mom.
1:50:56>> Wow.
1:50:57>> Like so she went up there and like hey
1:50:59here's my mom's number. Can you give it
1:51:01to your mom? And she called from Sydney
1:51:03Australia. Like what the hell, man?
1:51:06>> It's it's so beyond explanation. And
1:51:10I think the the
1:51:13enemy of what we're really trying to do
1:51:14is certainty.
1:51:15>> Yes. For sure.
1:51:16>> Certainty is the enemy. Certainty and
1:51:18separation.
1:51:19>> Yeah. And and and it's so tricky because
1:51:21it's like I agree with the disposition
1:51:24of a scientist that wants to know the
1:51:26truth, that wants to eliminate
1:51:28falsehoods, people who are, you know,
1:51:31doing doing works that look to be
1:51:33miraculous and that are not really
1:51:34miraculous. Like all of that stuff needs
1:51:36to be exised for many serious inquiry
1:51:40into all of this stuff. And that's like
1:51:42a moving target in a case by case
1:51:44because it's like for instance, you
1:51:45know, sigh telepathy tapes. I think
1:51:47there's a there there 100%. And I also
1:51:49think there's people within all these
1:51:50spaces who are trying to like, you know,
1:51:53make a name for themselves and the more
1:51:55insane their abilities, the better,
1:51:56right? Um
1:51:58>> Yeah. And they're internally there's
1:51:59I'll just
1:52:00>> I can do this thing, but I just want to
1:52:02add on this one little piece of flare.
1:52:04>> Yeah. Onto it.
1:52:05>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, but no, I think when it
1:52:08comes to this larger conversation about
1:52:09this like frontier being consciousness,
1:52:11I think that has to be it. Or it's or
1:52:14we're I don't know, we're entering some
1:52:16new era of delusion where we're all more
1:52:18like certain than ever that our
1:52:19delusions are real. But I don't think
1:52:21so. I really don't think so. And when I
1:52:23start to try to imagine what
1:52:25technologies predicated on that way of
1:52:27thinking could look like, I don't even
1:52:30think we know what that could lead to in
1:52:33in this level of reality. Like if if
1:52:35there is some
1:52:37mechanism or faculty that we awaken or
1:52:44um remember, a lot of people think it's
1:52:45a remembering like that these qualities
1:52:47are vestigial and we've evolved away
1:52:49from them or we we don't need them
1:52:51anymore because we're not constantly
1:52:53operating in danger. You you may have
1:52:54heard this within the military that
1:52:56there seem to be people who are more
1:52:58tapped into that like that frequency of
1:53:01danger and they just innately sense it
1:53:04and don't they try to change is is under
1:53:06the um heading of human performance or
1:53:09something they try to teach this or you
1:53:12know teach people to follow their
1:53:14intuition. I I don't know about it very
1:53:17well but I've heard rumblings.
1:53:20>> Yeah. most uh a little bit of intuition
1:53:23there, but uh there's a whole lot of
1:53:25training that goes into this and I'll
1:53:28show you a video after this of me with a
1:53:31black hood over my head going through
1:53:32it. Uh but they teach massive aggressive
1:53:37spontaneous like instantaneous violence.
1:53:40>> Uh so it's just a explosion of violence
1:53:42as fast as possible.
1:53:44>> But that comes first and then threat
1:53:46detection is the after part.
1:53:48>> Okay. They teach you to do the explosion
1:53:50of violence. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.
1:53:52Yeah. That that made me think of like
1:53:53there's a um speaking of sigh things in
1:53:56uh [ __ ] Japanese there's this word saki
1:53:59which means like um killing intent or
1:54:02something. And if you watch a lot of
1:54:03like you know Japanese media you'll see
1:54:05this word pop up and I think as a kid I
1:54:07was watching like anime or something and
1:54:09this this like concept would come up
1:54:11every now and then like murderous
1:54:13intent. So I'm like looking this up like
1:54:14what is murderous intent? And it's
1:54:16seemingly like this ability that you
1:54:18have to sense when there's like
1:54:20something coming or something like that.
1:54:22Yeah. And it seems like we're
1:54:23rediscovering that
1:54:24>> Sheldrake. Yeah.
1:54:26>> Like a Rupert shelter.
1:54:26>> Totally. Uh morphic resonance theory
1:54:30>> where I think uh he was able to prove or
1:54:33somebody was able to prove like if
1:54:35someone's staring at you from across the
1:54:37room, you can identify when they're
1:54:38doing it, which holy [ __ ]
1:54:41>> U and that's not Nobody says, "Oh, wow.
1:54:44This is a great discovery." It's just
1:54:45it's kind of pushed off to the fringe.
1:54:48>> Yes.
1:54:48>> And I think Plato warned us
1:54:52twice.
1:54:54So the first time Plato warned us was
1:54:56with the cave.
1:54:56>> Yeah. One of my favorite things to talk
1:54:58about.
1:54:59>> Guy goes up. He's like, "Oh [ __ ]
1:55:00there's some real cool stuff out here.
1:55:03Let me go tell everybody." And they want
1:55:05to kill him.
1:55:06>> Like they're mad at him. They're pissed
1:55:07off at him. And the second time Plato
1:55:09warned us, they killed Socrates.
1:55:12killed him for for asking questions, for
1:55:14asking the right questions.
1:55:17>> It's the same story, the Socrates's
1:55:20death in the cave.
1:55:20>> It is. Yeah. So, I think the the big
1:55:24thing that we need to focus on is
1:55:27exactly what they're doing in London.
1:55:29Just we don't have to shout it from the
1:55:31rooftops. Just let this stuff keep
1:55:32accumulating and piling up and piling
1:55:34up. You don't have to go convert uh the
1:55:37the girl at the checkout in Whole Foods.
1:55:40Uh you just kind of just keep uh letting
1:55:42it letting it convert. Just helping
1:55:45people to be less certain.
1:55:47>> The thing they're doing in London.
1:55:49>> Oh. Oh yeah. Imperial College. Yes.
1:55:51>> College. Yeah.
1:55:52>> Yeah. Plato's Cave is one of those gifts
1:55:54that keeps on giving from a a
1:55:56philosophical
1:55:58epistemological and ontological POV. I I
1:56:02deep dove that for what wound up
1:56:04becoming I think still my most popular
1:56:07video because it's one of those things
1:56:08where it's like the perfect example of
1:56:12an esoteric transmission that makes
1:56:14sense from the most exoteric simple
1:56:18level and then the deeper you go into it
1:56:20you realize how profound it really is in
1:56:24terms of what it's saying about what
1:56:26reality is, what it's comprised of, what
1:56:28truth is, what truth isn't. Um, it's
1:56:31also making ontological statements about
1:56:33like levels of reality and how to get to
1:56:35those levels of reality. And um, you
1:56:38know, it's just it's it's mind-blowingly
1:56:41deceptively simple in in what it's
1:56:43delivering. And I think to this day it's
1:56:46probably the most effective uh allegory
1:56:49and metaphor that I've ever heard for,
1:56:51you know, thinking about reality,
1:56:54thinking about thinking, thinking about,
1:56:56you know, what our state is and um what
1:56:59it's meant to be. In many ways, it even
1:57:01encapsulates so many of the things we're
1:57:02talking about in in this conversation.
1:57:05Um, and even like later platonists who
1:57:08are brilliant in their own right, they
1:57:09wrote commentaries on this thing that,
1:57:11you know, they're still discovering new
1:57:14deeper layers about what it means. And
1:57:17yeah, your your point about the death of
1:57:19Socrates
1:57:21being heavily maybe your point wasn't
1:57:23that it's tied in. Maybe that was more
1:57:24my point, but
1:57:25>> Yeah. No, it was like a it was a part
1:57:27two.
1:57:28>> Yes.
1:57:28>> It was like the as above so below. We
1:57:32wrote the book and then it happened in
1:57:33real life.
1:57:34>> Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And it's
1:57:36interesting to even think about which
1:57:37came first because there's some people
1:57:39think mo well most people think that the
1:57:42cave was written after Socrates death
1:57:44and part of it was to illustrate this is
1:57:46what happens when you get too close to
1:57:47the truth. Yeah. Then you try to bring
1:57:49truth back to people who are not ready
1:57:50for it. They will absolutely like form a
1:57:53mob and kill you. Um, so there's that
1:57:56level of it, but then there's like I
1:57:58would not put it past Plato and his
1:57:59brilliance to have been, you know, so
1:58:02keyed into the truth that he wrote this
1:58:05before Socrates's death, but but who
1:58:07knows? Um, I mean, and then you and then
1:58:09you have like if you're looking at it,
1:58:13it it just resonates and ripples
1:58:15throughout history. Like then we have
1:58:17the Matrix.
1:58:18>> Yeah.
1:58:18>> We have the the Truman Show. We have all
1:58:21these little things that are just like,
1:58:22"Oh, that's the cave." And we have that,
1:58:25what's that new one on Apple TV? Uh,
1:58:27Severance.
1:58:27>> Oh. Oh, yeah. And also Silo.
1:58:29>> And Silo. Silo. Literally the cave.
1:58:31Yeah. Yeah.
1:58:32>> And it it's just like that resonates
1:58:36deeply in us for a reason. I think
1:58:39>> I think there's a reason behind it. And
1:58:42it just all of that stuff is just
1:58:44fascinating that
1:58:45>> why does it trigger us so much? Why is
1:58:47why is it like the number one hit show,
1:58:49the number one movie is all about this
1:58:52stuff? And it's not because someone's
1:58:53watching it and saying, "Oh, yes. I can
1:58:55appreciate this art. It hits something
1:58:57in us
1:58:59>> and
1:59:01our ancestors passed something down or
1:59:03whatever it is." Pass something down to
1:59:05us. Oh, you want to know one weird
1:59:07thing? This is totally off topic, but
1:59:10have you ever been in like a department
1:59:12store and like you're you kind of get
1:59:13like close to a mannequin?
1:59:15>> Mhm.
1:59:15>> And then you're like like you can feel
1:59:17it all the way down your spine like a
1:59:19weird feeling.
1:59:20>> You know what I'm talking about?
1:59:21>> Yeah.
1:59:22What did our ancestors see that was not
1:59:25quite human that programmed that [ __ ]
1:59:28into us?
1:59:30>> Well, yeah, I've never thought about
1:59:31that. It's every time I'm in a store
1:59:34where there's mannequins, that's all I
1:59:35think about.
1:59:36>> Or is just like an uncanny valley thing
1:59:38because it's like we we perceive it like
1:59:41it is a person, but then it's not. So,
1:59:42it creates this weird dissonance. But
1:59:45yeah, I never thought about it in the
1:59:46reverse way that it is like a simulacra
1:59:49of something else that we're we have
1:59:51experienced in our past that creeps us
1:59:53out or something.
1:59:54>> Yeah.
1:59:55>> But I mean it's like a a nervous system
1:59:57feeling. Not just like oh that's kind of
1:59:59weird, but it's like a full body and
2:00:01this is like 99% of people report that
2:00:03they get like a nervous system reaction
2:00:06to being close to a mannequin.
2:00:09>> What do you think that would have been?
2:00:11>> Anunnaki, obviously.
2:00:13>> Yeah. Here we go. Um, but I I don't want
2:00:17to keep like circling back to your
2:00:18extended state DMT thing, but I'm just
2:00:20so curious about so many aspects of it.
2:00:23So, you said, so even though you talked
2:00:25about early on it was this very entity
2:00:29centered, powerful, crazy experience.
2:00:31You said a lot of it wasn't. You said a
2:00:33lot of it really wasn't entities. What,
2:00:35if anything, can you say about the time
2:00:37that wasn't entity soaked?
2:00:40>> Yeah, it wasn't entity soaked. It was
2:00:44it was massive ontological shock and
2:00:46amazement and just cities and visuals of
2:00:51crazy stuff places I've never been.
2:00:54>> Uh cities that we know damn well our
2:00:57brains are like worldmaking organisms
2:00:59>> and there's no way that we have evolved
2:01:02to make that [ __ ] that I saw up there.
2:01:05Um,
2:01:07so and like when we're in a dream, we
2:01:09dream about pretty normal stuff or maybe
2:01:13stuff you saw on TV or something. Um,
2:01:16cuz it's making this world, but this
2:01:18that's why the DMT is like a portal, but
2:01:20it was kind of just kind of traveling
2:01:22through stuff. It was a lot of amnesia
2:01:24for it. It's it's hard to kind of like
2:01:26cuz coming out of it, you want to bring
2:01:27so much of it back. U I'm funding some
2:01:30research right now where we're mixing in
2:01:33Alzheimer's drugs
2:01:34>> into the mix uh which is uh if I can go
2:01:39into the neuroscience of this.
2:01:41>> Yeah.
2:01:41>> So the way that we and I want to
2:01:44simplify this a lot but the way that we
2:01:46make memories we use this thing called
2:01:49acetylcholine.
2:01:50>> Yeah.
2:01:50>> So acetylcholine helps the hippocampus
2:01:52to like say oh I'm going to grab this
2:01:54thing. I'm going to save it and put it
2:01:56in this file folder. Right.
2:01:58Uh but there's a chemical in our brain
2:02:01uh uh especially when we're when our
2:02:03serotonin system is activated called
2:02:05acetylcholine eststerase. So anything
2:02:07eststerase means it eats the word that
2:02:10just came before it. Right? So it
2:02:12digests and processes out acetylcholine
2:02:14out of the brain. So when somebody says
2:02:16I'm on an ACE inhibitor for Alzheimer's
2:02:19or Parkinson's, dementia, even myia
2:02:22gravis or something, ACE inhibitor means
2:02:24it's inhibiting acetylcholine eststerase
2:02:27which lets acetylcholine flourish
2:02:29throughout the brain.
2:02:30>> Okay.
2:02:30>> So I we're hypothesizing now that some
2:02:34of these drugs and so there's another
2:02:37one called fisostigmine which is
2:02:39extremely dangerous but extremely
2:02:41effective. Um, I could you could take
2:02:44vaso stigmine and you have like way
2:02:46unbelievable memory recall and stuff.
2:02:48It's a very dangerous. It's prescription
2:02:50only.
2:02:51>> Uh, and there's another one called
2:02:52galantamine.
2:02:53>> I've heard of that. Yeah. People use it
2:02:54for lucid dreaming, right?
2:02:56>> Yeah. Yeah. You you use it for lucid
2:02:58dreaming. That's pretty low dose. Um,
2:03:00and galantamine and fiso stigmine both
2:03:02are ACE inhibitors. So, we're thinking
2:03:05that inducing this plus some kind of
2:03:09other transcription system that the
2:03:10person's going to be able to record it.
2:03:12Uh, so we can activate state dependent
2:03:15learning to where like if the exact same
2:03:17playlist is on as they're reading the
2:03:19journal and they had ACE inhibitors on
2:03:21board. So, we're like just trying to
2:03:23stack and compound every possible thing
2:03:26we can to just extract more data out of
2:03:28the DMT space. And Danny's working with
2:03:30us on this as well.
2:03:31>> Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy to think
2:03:34about. I've never even somehow never
2:03:36thought about that. Like how can you
2:03:37prime the brain to capture more of the
2:03:40uncapturable, you know, or or to at
2:03:42least be able to recall cuz it's like
2:03:44you lose your ability to like recall it.
2:03:47It's like a faint sense of I know this
2:03:49kind of a thing happened and you might
2:03:51have like a flash of it but you cannot
2:03:54really remember it because it's I think
2:03:56it is because you're transcending our
2:03:58concepts so much and all the you know
2:04:02not not to try to gallore beyond my the
2:04:06scope of what I'm really capable of
2:04:07doing because I I'm not steeped in the
2:04:10neuroscience like him of course but he
2:04:12talks about it very much in the same way
2:04:13as you like that it's this world the
2:04:15brain is this worldbuing machine. And
2:04:17you know, even mainstream neuroscience
2:04:20says this construct that we're dealing
2:04:22with is actually the world building
2:04:24model of reality. It's not reality
2:04:26itself. And you can take that to a Don
2:04:27Hoffman level of like, you know, he
2:04:29talks about his um desktop interface
2:04:32theory that no, it's just a desktop an
2:04:34evolutionarily convenient desktop for us
2:04:36to interact with. It's not real reality.
2:04:38You can take it all the way to that
2:04:39level. But even if you're going
2:04:41mainstream neuroscience, you're saying
2:04:42that this is a representative reality
2:04:44that our brain has all these shortcuts
2:04:46for knowing how to render and interact
2:04:48with on the fly or something like that.
2:04:50So part of Galamore's argument is like
2:04:53one of the things that makes DMT seem
2:04:56like it's actually presenting something
2:04:58to you is you don't have these
2:05:01worldbuing mechanisms for whatever it's
2:05:03showing you. Yet your brain somehow
2:05:05knows how to do something with it. just
2:05:08builds these these worlds that it
2:05:09shouldn't know how to build. So it kind
2:05:11of gives extra weight to the idea that
2:05:13>> it's not
2:05:14>> Yeah. Right. Yeah.
2:05:15>> Um so yeah, how do you prime the brain
2:05:18to retain I guess more of that model
2:05:20that it either interacts with or builds?
2:05:24Because you can look at it either way.
2:05:25You could think of it as it's trying to
2:05:27build on the fly this other model. Or
2:05:29you could think of it as it's
2:05:31encountering this like platonic realm
2:05:35that is like another layer up or
2:05:37something like that. And then our
2:05:39aperture is just like why can't I think
2:05:41of the Millennium Falcon like shaking
2:05:43through, you know, like a warp jump or
2:05:45something trying to hold itself together
2:05:47and it's just like ah and it it can't. I
2:05:50think it's more the latter. I think it's
2:05:51more like our feeble software and
2:05:54hardware are attempting to interact with
2:05:58the higher, you know, 2.0 or whatever,
2:06:01you know, fourthdimensional, fifth
2:06:02dimensional version. Uh, but yeah,
2:06:05either way, it's super interesting. Who
2:06:07was the famous guy that when he was
2:06:09about to die? I think you talked about
2:06:11this on your last last show that you put
2:06:14out. He he was like on his deathbed. His
2:06:16final words was like, "Oh my god, it's
2:06:18all a hoax or it's all fake." I can't
2:06:21remember what the quote was. Um he was a
2:06:25movie producer or something.
2:06:26>> Yeah.
2:06:27>> Right.
2:06:28>> It sounds very familiar, but I I'm
2:06:30drawing a blank. But his last words were
2:06:32like, "Oh my god, it's all a game or
2:06:35something like that."
2:06:37>> Yeah.
2:06:37>> And that's kind of what you get when
2:06:38you're when you're on the DMT. You're
2:06:41like the instant that DMT takes over,
2:06:43you're like, "Oh,
2:06:45I'm home."
2:06:46>> Yeah.
2:06:47>> There's no And and people don't get like
2:06:50the one thing that I think people
2:06:52struggle to understand about it is when
2:06:55you're in that space, you're not high
2:06:59at all. like you are lucid, which is way
2:07:03different than like you'd have LSD or
2:07:05mushrooms or anything like that.
2:07:07>> You you're on Earth. Your body is like
2:07:10going through all kinds of stuff. But
2:07:12when you're there, you're lucid and
2:07:15totally Yeah.
2:07:16>> in control of yourself and you can speak
2:07:20and you can act normally. Uh and that
2:07:23was the thing that really bugged me a
2:07:25lot that it was just so solid.
2:07:27>> Mhm. It was not like like I could turn
2:07:30my head and it things would move. And
2:07:31like you try that on mushrooms or
2:07:34something. It's a different story.
2:07:35>> Yeah. It feels like an enhancement
2:07:37rather than a some like a like a um
2:07:41intoxication.
2:07:43>> Yeah. It's like a de intoxication. Yeah.
2:07:46That's what it feels like.
2:07:47>> I agree, man.
2:07:49Well, I I feel like one thing we should
2:07:52we should take another lap around
2:07:55because you are you know that there's so
2:07:57many things I think we did touch on
2:07:58things that you're known for. But one of
2:08:02the things that might sound mundane, but
2:08:04I think is truly
2:08:07probably one of the most it'sformational
2:08:09warfare. like we're really we're really
2:08:11existing I think right now in a time
2:08:14where there's kind of a war for our
2:08:16attention but with there being a war for
2:08:19your attention that also means there's
2:08:21like a lot of destruction happening on
2:08:23your personal psychology right because
2:08:25if something wants to grab your
2:08:28attention it it wants to cut through all
2:08:32of your boundaries around your attention
2:08:33right and it it has badly degraded my
2:08:36psychology I mean my I never would have
2:08:38considered myself an addictive person
2:08:41like I've never like had any substance
2:08:42abuse issues whatever where I like you
2:08:45know just can't be like I'm going to
2:08:46stop doing that now but except for this
2:08:49like I cannot stop myself like I just
2:08:51and I think most people watching are
2:08:53probably in the same kind of a
2:08:55relationship with their technology and
2:08:57that leads to a lot of harmful
2:09:01styles of interacting with reality and
2:09:04thinking when you're not interacting
2:09:06with that because this becomes such a a
2:09:09crutch for what to do when you're not
2:09:11doing when you don't have to be doing
2:09:13something else. Yeah.
2:09:14>> That when you put yourself So, I I
2:09:16mentioned probably when we were not
2:09:17recording, I've been having trouble
2:09:18sleeping lately. And it's like I can
2:09:21tell that it's part of it is because I'm
2:09:23removing that immediate
2:09:26something to do, something to look at,
2:09:28something to whatever that when you take
2:09:30that away, a new kind of like racing
2:09:33>> in the mind begins. And you there's no
2:09:36you can't just be like, I'm not going to
2:09:37think about that. That doesn't work.
2:09:39>> Yeah.
2:09:39>> So, when people want to get control back
2:09:43of their mind or stop themsel from like
2:09:46compulsive behaviors and stuff like
2:09:47that, what what actually works?
2:09:52Two big things. Number one is getting a
2:09:55baseline measurement on yourself of how
2:09:58willing or how able am I to just be
2:10:02bored? Can I be bored? Like if I'm going
2:10:05into the bathroom to sit on the toilet
2:10:07for a few minutes, do I have to have
2:10:08that phone? Am I going to look for my
2:10:10phone even when I'm really really got to
2:10:12run to the restroom? I want to find my
2:10:13phone first because I don't want to sit
2:10:15in there without it.
2:10:16>> Like, can I be bored for a little while?
2:10:18That's number one. And as a correlary to
2:10:22that, people think that we're in uh like
2:10:25you were saying, there's a war for your
2:10:27attention. people saying that attention
2:10:28spans are getting smaller because kids
2:10:30are looking at these shorter little
2:10:32Snapchat or whatever Tik Tok videos and
2:10:34stuff.
2:10:36Attention spans have not changed at all.
2:10:39>> Uh so we don't have an attention deficit
2:10:42problem. We have an interest deficit
2:10:44problem.
2:10:44>> I would agree.
2:10:45>> So it's managing what we're interested
2:10:46in. These same kids that you say, "Oh,
2:10:48he's got ADD. He's got a horrible
2:10:50interest problem. He's on social media."
2:10:52they can still binge watch an entire
2:10:55season of Stranger Things,
2:10:56>> right?
2:10:57>> There's there no problem with attention.
2:11:00>> Yeah.
2:11:00>> It's the interest uh is the problem.
2:11:04>> So, when we're looking at this both of
2:11:07these little issues kind of going back
2:11:09and forth, it's it's a war for attention
2:11:11and I can't be bored. So, if I can't be
2:11:14bored, I automatically fail. So, that
2:11:16would be step one. And step two is
2:11:19getting dopamine from your uh
2:11:24past tense self.
2:11:27>> So every day doing something to where
2:11:30you're rewarding the the person
2:11:32tomorrow. So every time because most of
2:11:34us look back and be like, "God, why did
2:11:36I do that? Why did I stay up so late?
2:11:37Why did I drink that extra glass of
2:11:39wine? I have a headache today. Why
2:11:41didn't I study for these exams harder?"
2:11:43We're looking backwards with contempt
2:11:45and anger and resentment.
2:11:48But we if we look back with gratitude
2:11:51that means we did something good for our
2:11:53future self. So if you can reach a place
2:11:56where where future me is higher priority
2:12:01than present me and just do it for a
2:12:04little while practice a few weeks and it
2:12:06doesn't have to become a habit because
2:12:08it's dopamineergic in the long run. So
2:12:11now your new dopamine addiction is
2:12:13taking care of your future self. And
2:12:15start small. Like if you drink coffee in
2:12:18the morning, put the little pod in the
2:12:20thing, put the coffee cup in there, get
2:12:22it ready to go with water inside of it
2:12:24and all that. Your shoes are out there
2:12:26perfectly next to your bed. Your clothes
2:12:27are laid out. Uh and then I wake up in
2:12:30the morning and I'm like, "Fuck, thanks,
2:12:32dude." I'm fist bumping myself being
2:12:34like, "Wow, I'm excited about me. I'm
2:12:36looking backwards with gratitude." And
2:12:38the moment I get out of bed, what's the
2:12:40number one priority? Me right now or me
2:12:41in the future?
2:12:42>> It's me in the future. So guess what I
2:12:44got to do? I'm going to turn around,
2:12:45make that bed.
2:12:46>> Yeah.
2:12:46>> And the bed gets made. And now evening
2:12:48time, Chase comes into the bedroom like,
2:12:50"Yes, thanks, bro." So the whole time
2:12:53it's this process, and I'm I say this
2:12:55[ __ ] out loud. You can ask my wife. Uh I
2:12:58will be like getting the coffee maker
2:12:59ready and I'll be like, "Chase is going
2:13:01to love this [ __ ] Chase is going to
2:13:02love this." So getting to the point
2:13:05where I'm receiving dopamine from doing
2:13:08stuff that I don't want to do because I
2:13:10know that I'm going to enjoy the hell
2:13:11out of it later. It's uh coming around
2:13:15springtime, I might put take, you know,
2:13:17we're taking all of our heavy winter
2:13:19coats and stuff and putting them up in
2:13:20the attic. I might put a $100 bill in
2:13:22one of them. You know, I'll forget about
2:13:24it. Yeah.
2:13:24>> And then the springtime comes around, be
2:13:26like, "Hell yeah, thanks, dude." And
2:13:28I'll write a note to myself in there.
2:13:30>> I might write a letter to myself in the
2:13:32future and hide it somewhere in the
2:13:33house. So, I'm going to do and just
2:13:35think about how much of our problems
2:13:36come from not prioritizing future me.
2:13:40Eating too much. I'm not eating the
2:13:42right food. I'm not um saving money. I'm
2:13:45not investing money. I'm spending it on
2:13:47stupid [ __ ] on Amazon or whatever. It's
2:13:49all all because I'm not prioritizing
2:13:51future Chase.
2:13:52>> Yeah.
2:13:53>> So, that is the number one way. It's
2:13:56like you think the phone thing is the
2:13:58problem. It's not. It's prioritizing
2:14:00future you. And if if I know the the
2:14:03outcomes of me sitting on my phone for
2:14:0545 minutes, then that's a byproduct of
2:14:08me. If I'm just prioritizing future me,
2:14:10I automatically won't do that. I'm only
2:14:13prioritizing present me if I'm on my
2:14:15phone doing that.
2:14:17>> So, if I shift my focus of priority just
2:14:19a little to the right on the timeline,
2:14:22and eventually it'll get later and later
2:14:24and later. And if you want to go extreme
2:14:26with it, download an app that makes you
2:14:28look like 95 years old. Print that thing
2:14:31out and stick it on your fridge,
2:14:32>> man.
2:14:33>> So now you have a mamalian visual
2:14:35relationship with the older version of
2:14:37yourself because we don't take care of
2:14:38our future self because we don't really
2:14:39form a connection with them. And then
2:14:40you have a visual connection with an
2:14:42older version of you.
2:14:44>> Man, never thought about that. All the
2:14:47Virgos got so hard when you started
2:14:50talking about you got to organize
2:14:51everything, put your shoes out, put with
2:14:53the p the coffee in there just right.
2:14:56Um, and I actually need to hear that
2:14:57even more so because I'm I'm the polar
2:14:59opposite. I'm I'm a Pisces and I'm the
2:15:00most Pisces Pisces.
2:15:02>> I'm a Pisces.
2:15:03>> Yes, man. Let's go. Um but uh but yeah.
2:15:07Anyway, yeah, that that all really
2:15:10resonates, but if someone does get in
2:15:12one of those really negative sort of
2:15:15headspaces where they're they're
2:15:16ruminating a lot and they just can't
2:15:18stop because and this is a selfish
2:15:20question because this is this has been
2:15:21happening to me. Middle of the night,
2:15:23you wake up, you have an anxious
2:15:25thought, leads to another anxious
2:15:26thought, leads to another anxious
2:15:27thought.
2:15:29What neuroscientifically speaking do you
2:15:33think is going on there? And how can you
2:15:35actually what is actually effective at
2:15:37disrupting that rather than just you
2:15:39know because a lot of people give very
2:15:41handwavy answers of like oh you need to
2:15:44just like reorient to think about no you
2:15:46can't you can't like reorient yourself
2:15:48like I feel like there's got to be some
2:15:49kind of behavioral or
2:15:51>> system has no steering wheel.
2:15:54>> It has no steering wheel. Uh so a a few
2:15:57things. The biggest mistake I think a
2:15:59lot of people make is assuming that the
2:16:02problem is psychological and ignoring
2:16:05that the fact that it might be
2:16:06physiological.
2:16:07>> So go get immediately go to your doctor,
2:16:10get a vitamin panel, get a mineral
2:16:13deficiency panel, get a hormone panel,
2:16:15get your blood work checked, get your
2:16:17kidneys checked with your BU, your
2:16:19creatinin levels, all your doctor can
2:16:21take a look at all this stuff and be
2:16:22like, "Holy [ __ ] dude. you've been
2:16:24seeing that therapist for this many
2:16:26weeks and you say that nothing's
2:16:28happening. You've been doing X and Y and
2:16:29Z. This whole entire time you were
2:16:31deficient in vitamin B and D. So yeah,
2:16:34that that is an interesting point that
2:16:35you may actually have an underlying
2:16:37physiological thing that needs to be
2:16:40looked at that's not being addressed.
2:16:41And then in some hypochondriac's minds
2:16:43that will make this all even worse cuz
2:16:45like I knew I had some whatever disease
2:16:47that I was worried that I had. Um, but
2:16:50is there anything you can do in the
2:16:52moment to try to get your your brain off
2:16:55of that kind of erasing?
2:16:57>> Yeah. Um, and this I think this stems
2:17:00from cognitive behavioral therapy, but
2:17:01it's a 5 4321 method. I don't know if
2:17:04you've heard of it.
2:17:05>> Sounds familiar, but you name five
2:17:08things that you can see. Uh, then you
2:17:10name uh four things that you can touch
2:17:14in the room that you can physically
2:17:16touch. three things that you can hear,
2:17:19like I can hear the fan, I can hear the
2:17:20air conditioner, I can hear my dog
2:17:22scratching his neck or whatever. Uh, two
2:17:25things that you can smell and one that
2:17:26you can taste. And if you just kind of
2:17:29go that reorients your system to like
2:17:31remap itself a little bit and
2:17:35it's extremely effective and it even
2:17:37helps like in stressful situations just
2:17:40labeling objects in the room helps you
2:17:42to regain the internal sense of control.
2:17:46The second part of that is mapping out
2:17:47like, oh, I'm really worried about this.
2:17:50Fill in the blank. Just take take three,
2:17:53five minutes and write down like, okay,
2:17:55what am I actually worried about? What's
2:17:56the worst case scenario if that's going
2:17:57to happen? And if that happens, like, oh
2:17:59yeah, it's not not that big of a deal.
2:18:02I'll be okay. And do I have control of
2:18:03it right now? No.
2:18:05>> So, you're not going to really steer
2:18:06your way out of it.
2:18:07>> But the the fear comes from ambiguity.
2:18:12>> So, anxiety is about ambiguity. When I'm
2:18:14experiencing actual fear, I can point
2:18:16I'm scared of that one thing. Anxiety
2:18:18comes from fear that has no nothing I
2:18:20can point to. So you're making you're
2:18:23taking it down like, oh, I have a fear
2:18:25of this. Then if I have a fear of this,
2:18:27is it rational or not? Can I do anything
2:18:29about it right now? Then you can't. So
2:18:30you you transform it from something
2:18:32that's ambiguous to something that's
2:18:34that's concrete. And then it's usually
2:18:36our ruminating comes from vagueness and
2:18:40ambiguity.
2:18:41>> Yeah. Yeah. Well said, man.
2:18:43>> Our ancestors lived because they
2:18:46confused a rock for a bear, not a bear
2:18:48for a rock,
2:18:49>> right? Yeah. Yeah.
2:18:50>> So, we we're wired to go into the
2:18:52negative defaults. So, just keep that in
2:18:54mind. Sometimes people get hard on
2:18:56themselves, but that's why you're alive
2:18:59is because we we're wired to default to
2:19:01the negative. Just realize it's
2:19:03ancestral stuff going on. And it's
2:19:06usually not as bad as we think. It's
2:19:09usually a rock and not a bear.
2:19:10>> Yeah.
2:19:11>> Yeah. That might be a good note to end
2:19:13it on, man. There's always so many
2:19:14dimensions we could go to, and it's
2:19:16tempting to go there, but I don't know.
2:19:18It's It's always hard to like land on a
2:19:20point with these giant sprawling
2:19:22conversations where you feel like that's
2:19:24kind of a good thing to leave people
2:19:25with. And I I feel like that's kind of a
2:19:26good thing to leave people with.
2:19:27>> Perfect. Thanks for Thanks for having me
2:19:29here, man. This place is amazing.
2:19:31>> Um, and for and I'll give you your
2:19:33flowers. Uh, he's been super kind. He
2:19:36set all this up. I didn't have to do
2:19:38anything. So, I always appreciate that.
2:19:40I'm looking forward to hanging out more.
2:19:42>> Well, my team did here at Extension One.
2:19:43>> Yes. Yes. His his awesome team
2:19:45>> and
2:19:46>> and and doggos that are on prem which
2:19:49which also levels things up for me.
2:19:52>> It brings the energy up.
2:19:53>> Thank you, man.
2:19:54>> Thanks, man.

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