TALK THE WALK EP 21 ASH TALKS ABOUT UNDISPUTED 2! — Transcript

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1. 0:01Okay. What's up everybody? Welcome to
2. 0:03the WBGC.
3. 0:04Uh, real quick, as promised, we got Ash
4. 0:07Shabiv here. Uh, Ash, you are excited.
5. 0:10Excited enough and you feel like the
6. 0:12game is good enough to come on over here
7. 0:14across the pond to Vegas. What we got
8. 0:17going on?
9. 0:18>> So, uh, we are going to be playing
10. 0:21Undisputed 2 for the first time with
11. 0:23some creators that are that are coming
12. 0:24over. And um yeah, look, I think we we
13. 0:30are doing this super early in terms of
14. 0:34development.
15. 0:35>> Mhm.
16. 0:35>> But I feel so good about
17. 0:37>> Why do you say super early?
18. 0:39>> Well, like this isn't something that
19. 0:43>> uh game studios really do
20. 0:45>> very often.
21. 0:46>> Um like you know uh like we were just
22. 0:51talking about Ocarina of Time. They they
23. 0:52only showed it four months before
24. 0:54release basically.
25. 0:55>> That's right. You know, or even like,
26. 0:57you know, whether whether you're talking
27. 0:58about GTA 6, like nobody's going to be
28. 1:00going in and playing
29. 1:01>> GTA 6 early to let them know how this
30. 1:03game is coming along, right? Because um
31. 1:06I think when you get to that level, I
32. 1:08think you can you can you can have the
33. 1:12um license to say, "Hey, you're going to
34. 1:16play what you're given."
35. 1:17>> Yeah.
36. 1:17>> Right. because you trust the brand, you
37. 1:19trust the company, and they've proven it
38. 1:21time and time again.
39. 1:22>> Like for me, even though you like we
40. 1:25have 8 million players in Undisputed,
41. 1:27and like
42. 1:29>> um it's insane in terms of the success
43. 1:32of uh what we've had, but like I would
44. 1:36still never see ourselves as like one of
45. 1:38those studios that, hey, look, we've got
46. 1:40this in going to play it when it's when
47. 1:42it's done. Mhm.
48. 1:43>> Because for me um like I want to make
49. 1:46the game like with the community, right?
50. 1:48And I think we did we did a really good
51. 1:50job of that certainly in the first half
52. 1:52of of Undisputed
53. 1:54>> and and for me I want to go back to that
54. 1:57era of what we did because that was as
55. 1:59indie as you can get where like me like
56. 2:02I'm doing the social media stuff. I'm
57. 2:05writing out to the community like
58. 2:07literally [clears throat] what I'm
59. 2:08doing. Uh-huh.
60. 2:09>> So, so for for me, this is a place where
61. 2:12we can get some feedback.
62. 2:13>> Yeah.
63. 2:13>> As far as the direction that we're
64. 2:16taking with Undisputed 2. So, yeah, I
65. 2:18think for me, um, it's almost like we're
66. 2:21building this without any ego. It's
67. 2:24like, hey, tell us what you think of
68. 2:25what we're doing.
69. 2:26>> Now, I I I love that, right? And that
70. 2:28sounds like your energy. And I point
71. 2:30that out because as long as I've known
72. 2:32you and I've been coming to the studio
73. 2:34and stuff like that, you're you're the
74. 2:36you're the kid. this is I I I'm this is
75. 2:39my baby. But it seems like you've always
76. 2:41had people like, "Whoa, whoa, slow down.
77. 2:43Slow down." So, is this the team? Did
78. 2:46the team say, "Okay, we can do this." Or
79. 2:48did you say, "No, this is what we're
80. 2:49doing." You know, kind of like [sighs]
81. 2:51>> tell us a little bit about this glimpse
82. 2:53that we're getting.
83. 2:54>> So, so
84. 2:54>> without getting in trouble.
85. 2:55>> Yeah. That's that's that's challenge,
86. 2:57right? That's always the challenge. No,
87. 2:58look, I think I think like any company,
88. 3:00right? when you go from uh a small
89. 3:03startup scrappy let's just survive the
90. 3:06next day right to then you know growing
91. 3:08as I said to to 100 people now where
92. 3:12>> we've brought in developers from
93. 3:15Rockstar from EA Sports from
94. 3:18>> Take 2 2K
95. 3:20>> so so for me it was always about yeah
96. 3:23look we're trying to do
97. 3:26trying to build a game with our own
98. 3:29knowledge and that's only going to take
99. 3:30so far.
100. 3:31>> Mhm.
101. 3:32>> Um but then with that it it comes with
102. 3:36an element of baggage, right, where
103. 3:39we're not an EA Sports, we're not a 2K,
104. 3:41and we never will be. Because for me,
105. 3:44>> um like we've got our own DNA in what we
106. 3:46created because the truth is if we if we
107. 3:50tried to make Undisputed like EA Sports
108. 3:54or 2K or any other AAA studios, there
109. 3:56would be no boxing game.
110. 3:58>> Mhm.
111. 3:58>> Right. because it would have been
112. 3:59impossible to make because we made the
113. 4:01decisions
114. 4:02um that other studios didn't make.
115. 4:04Right. So yeah, when it when it comes to
116. 4:07making decisions like this um I I was
117. 4:10very um I had a very strong opinion
118. 4:13about I want people to play this as
119. 4:15early as possible.
120. 4:16>> Like I don't really care what
121. 4:18>> other studios do.
122. 4:20>> This is my way of doing it. But I've
123. 4:22been very fortunate in having a team
124. 4:24that has gotten behind that message.
125. 4:26Obviously, you've met Sean and Murray
126. 4:28and and the guys, right? So,
127. 4:30>> uh we're all uh we're all on the same
128. 4:34page. And I think for some people, this
129. 4:36is also a new experience. Like for the
130. 4:38people that have come from EA Sports,
131. 4:40doing it this way is a new experience
132. 4:42for them.
133. 4:43>> Wow. Um but I think when you're all uh
134. 4:46heading towards that same goal
135. 4:49>> uh it's just beautiful to see like the
136. 4:52fact that yeah we are doing things
137. 4:53differently
138. 4:54>> but um just seeing the energy from play
139. 4:56people as well is great.
140. 4:57>> I know you keep using the word early. Is
141. 4:59there has there been an official
142. 5:01announced date for Undisputed 2?
143. 5:03>> Uh no announced date. Okay. Um look I
144. 5:05mean I I made that mistake
145. 5:07>> probably four times
146. 5:09>> with Undisputed of hey releasing on this
147. 5:12date. Um but then that's just because of
148. 5:14the organic nature and growth of what we
149. 5:16made.
150. 5:17>> Now we do have an internal date, right,
151. 5:20of this is when we're aiming. Yeah.
152. 5:22>> But uh uh I'm not going to announce that
153. 5:24publicly until I am cast iron. Hey, this
154. 5:26is the date we are dropping.
155. 5:28>> I'll leave you alone.
156. 5:29>> Yeah.
157. 5:30>> Check to the razor.
158. 5:31>> Yeah. [laughter]
159. 5:33>> No, I I I sunk um hundreds of hours into
160. 5:36Undisputed both early release and its
161. 5:39console release, right? And for me, the
162. 5:42game hit its best part in its last
163. 5:45several months in early release and very
164. 5:47early in its uh official release. And
165. 5:50then it's, you know, I I I vaguely have
166. 5:54an understanding how code works. You you
167. 5:56change the code, you change the code,
168. 5:57and but at some point a game can lose
169. 5:58its way doing that from what I
170. 6:00understand. And there became
171. 6:03I'm being a little long-winded here, but
172. 6:05there was a time I enjoyed counter
173. 6:07punching in the pocket. I felt like my
174. 6:09boxing IQ as a a journalist, spectator,
175. 6:14one-time participator was was paying
176. 6:17dividends in the fight. I was out
177. 6:19thinking guys and all that. And then a
178. 6:21patch would come and then a patch would
179. 6:22come and it it seemed like there was
180. 6:24other people who felt the way I did,
181. 6:25whether it was hit detection or uh guys
182. 6:29getting away with, especially since the
183. 6:30fights are only an option online, unless
184. 6:32you're doing a custom match to be eight
185. 6:34rounds. they could shoot off all their
186. 6:36stamina and then get in that tired mode
187. 6:38where you can't even choose between the
188. 6:40two movement styles and but they're
189. 6:42already up four or five points and it
190. 6:44just seemed like at a certain point the
191. 6:47game rewarded that skill less and the
192. 6:49hit detection got tougher that those
193. 6:51countering windows and the game lost me
194. 6:54a little bit and and yet because it's
195. 6:57the only boxing game on the market and
196. 6:58there was such enthusiasm about getting
197. 7:00boxing returned to consoles I'll still
198. 7:02play it and I'll have a match or two
199. 7:05where I'm feeling like, okay, I like
200. 7:06this game again. It's not all just sour
201. 7:07grapes. Somebody beating me and now I'm
202. 7:09pissy about it. But then I'll play it
203. 7:11and then and then it loses me again and
204. 7:13I and now I don't I can't I can't stay
205. 7:16with this game. How do you read into
206. 7:18that? You know, the game it was a first
207. 7:20time game from Steel City. It didn't do
208. 7:23bad critically, but it didn't do great.
209. 7:25It was it's not considered that that
210. 7:27classic boxing game like fight night
211. 7:30round three, fight night round four. And
212. 7:33um now again like you were you were
213. 7:34trying to make a simulation game. Those
214. 7:36guys those games aren't really that sim
215. 7:38they're fun games but they're not great
216. 7:39simulation games. And I I give a big
217. 7:42credit to the studio for trying to
218. 7:43actually pull that off. And it's very
219. 7:45hard. And you spoke earlier about making
220. 7:48a fun game while balancing that with a
221. 7:50real simulation and the challenges that
222. 7:52brings about. But um h how do you is
223. 7:56that part of why you decided to do
224. 7:57Undisputed 2? you felt like at some
225. 7:59point the game lost its way a little bit
226. 8:02and you needed a fresh start with a new
227. 8:04engine. And what do you think needs to
228. 8:06be done in this sequel so that instead
229. 8:09of a 70% on Metacritic, it's it's more
230. 8:12of a universally acclaimed great boxing
231. 8:14game and great video game.
232. 8:17>> Uh, okay. Great questions. Quite a lot
233. 8:20for me to unpack there. But no, look, I
234. 8:22think I think the the the first point
235. 8:24around, you know, I think you said you
236. 8:26enjoyed the early access and then the
237. 8:28first few months of launch.
238. 8:29>> I think this is um
239. 8:33uh a challenge with sports games in
240. 8:36general. Like, listen, I I've got a I've
241. 8:39got a good relationship with guys over
242. 8:40at, you know, 2K and and and EA. And
243. 8:43it's like always a problem where
244. 8:47you're trying to please everybody,
245. 8:49right? Uh, and I think for for me, uh, I
246. 8:52had a very strong identity about this is
247. 8:55going to be a a highly technical game.
248. 8:57And, and the proof of that was was
249. 9:00boxers would come to the studio and some
250. 9:04of these boxers had never even picked up
251. 9:06a controller in their life before.
252. 9:09And then to see them play the game,
253. 9:12they would play it better than some of
254. 9:14the the guys in the studio
255. 9:17because
256. 9:18they were playing it as a boxer, right?
257. 9:22>> So, so all the nuances in the game, they
258. 9:24picked up instantly. So, so that for me
259. 9:27was the the rubber stamp of, okay,
260. 9:29>> right,
261. 9:29>> we're on track here,
262. 9:31>> right?
263. 9:32>> I think the one of the issues was that
264. 9:36we were trying to please everybody. And
265. 9:38this is the thing like some of the
266. 9:39things you're saying um like uh I'm not
267. 9:44going to say like only the hardcore but
268. 9:46a very small percentage of our entire
269. 9:48player base cuz like I said you know 8
270. 9:49million 8 and a half million people is a
271. 9:51lot of people right and and the amount
272. 9:53of people would then that would then go
273. 9:55and comment or say something about the
274. 9:57game is a tiny fraction of that 8 8 and
275. 10:00a half million. So then for for us to
276. 10:02then take on board feedback and hey
277. 10:05we're going to make this tweak here.
278. 10:06We're going to change this. Um I think
279. 10:10you know I've always been transparent
280. 10:12about some of the mistakes that I've
281. 10:13certainly made and I'm never going to
282. 10:15shy away from that because I'm like it's
283. 10:17the first time I've ever done this so
284. 10:19who the hell am I to say it should be
285. 10:21perfect. Um,
286. 10:24but uh the example I'll give is we
287. 10:27launched the game with Deontay Wilder's
288. 10:31unblockable
289. 10:32right power hook, right? His his big
290. 10:35overhand, right? You could not block it.
291. 10:38And that was a big old glaring bug.
292. 10:41Like, how the did this happen?
293. 10:44[laughter]
294. 10:45Um, so we fixed that in a in a in a
295. 10:48patch, right? But then what happened?
296. 10:51the amount of hate that I got from so
297. 10:56many people that we've broken the game
298. 10:58basically like Wilder's no longer
299. 10:59they're no longer wanting to select
300. 11:01Deontay Wilder
301. 11:03>> because we fixed an actual issue
302. 11:06>> where you could not block his punch. So,
303. 11:08so that for me then was a very clear
304. 11:10view of like, okay, if I've got people
305. 11:13complaining to me, like death threats
306. 11:16level complaining that we've ruined the
307. 11:18game because we fixed the issue with
308. 11:20Deontto Alder,
309. 11:21>> it was like this is a losing battle,
310. 11:24right? We're never going to be able to
311. 11:25please anybody, everybody. So, I think
312. 11:28for for me, we probably should have
313. 11:30stuck to our guns a little bit more in
314. 11:32terms of what this game is about. Um,
315. 11:34but that's that's always the age-old
316. 11:36issue about, you know, casual players,
317. 11:39simulation, hardcore, and and what is
318. 11:42that right balance? And and and for me
319. 11:44to to your other point about like, you
320. 11:46know, is did that take a
321. 11:48>> did that play into while we're doing
322. 11:49Undisputed 2. Um, I I think to a degree,
323. 11:54but going back to the fundamental issues
324. 11:56in terms of what the foundations of
325. 11:58Undisputed was built upon, we just had
326. 12:00to tear all that away like the online
327. 12:02code because again I wanted to build the
328. 12:05create the perfect technical boxing game
329. 12:09with you playing next to your friend uh
330. 12:12two players, right? So for me that was
331. 12:15like the gold standard
332. 12:16>> which is competitive simulation, right?
333. 12:18>> And and and and I will stand behind
334. 12:20this. There is no better boxing game on
335. 12:21the planet than you playing undisputed
336. 12:23offline with with two players. There's
337. 12:26no game that comes close.
338. 12:27>> Yeah,
339. 12:27>> I'm going to stand behind that.
340. 12:29>> Shout out to the WB. We we WBGC
341. 12:31platform. We do offline events and I
342. 12:35commentate and I'm like I'm I get lost
343. 12:38in it and I'm like, "Wow, you it looks
344. 12:41real. It looks good." I had a fight
345. 12:43against one of your uh content creators,
346. 12:45not fanatical but it was another guy and
347. 12:47we we did Larry Holmes verse might have
348. 12:49been Joe Frasier or something and the
349. 12:51experience was so good like the way I
350. 12:53was really fighting like Larry Holmes.
351. 12:55He was really fighting like Joe was this
352. 12:56high level we had a trilogy almost and
353. 12:59you know but
354. 13:00>> and that's where the game comes to life.
355. 13:02Yeah. Right. But then going back to my
356. 13:03point around okay 8 million players
357. 13:06people who play like that it's going to
358. 13:08be less than 200,000.
359. 13:11>> Right. Right. Um, so, so there's always
360. 13:15that balancing act without losing the
361. 13:16soul of what we're creating. So,
362. 13:18Undisputed 2 like um, again going back
363. 13:22to I wanted to build a perfect boxing
364. 13:24game technically. Now the problem with
365. 13:26doing that was by building it with that
366. 13:31kind of first and then adapting that to
367. 13:34then work on online. It was a losing
368. 13:37battle like like we made essentially we
369. 13:39made the game too technical for it to
370. 13:42work perfectly online. And and when you
371. 13:45look at, you know, whether it's uh the
372. 13:49other Fight Night games or or any any
373. 13:51combat game online, technically they
374. 13:54they're they're nowhere near as in-depth
375. 13:56as what we did with Undisputed.
376. 13:59But then there's a reason for that. So
377. 14:00that they could work perfectly online.
378. 14:02And in terms of what what you said
379. 14:04about, you know, the the simulation
380. 14:06side, and I've I've said this before in
381. 14:07in in a few interviews, like
382. 14:11what what the other AAA studios are so
383. 14:13good at doing, is like if we say Fight
384. 14:16Night, which again I'm massive fan of
385. 14:18the franchise,
386. 14:20um they really set the benchmark for
387. 14:22boxing games, right? But if you look at
388. 14:25the the the scope of what Fight Night is
389. 14:27as a as a technical boxing simulation,
390. 14:30they probably captured 30% of that,
391. 14:33right? But
392. 14:35the polish level was 100%. It just
393. 14:39looked great. It, you know, played
394. 14:42perfect and and the polish was 100%. And
395. 14:45that's that's why they only had 30% to
396. 14:48focus on, right?
397. 14:50We tried to do it. We're not going to go
398. 14:53with 30%. We're going to do 100%. Our
399. 14:55scope is 100%. Right?
400. 14:58>> But then the polish was nowhere near
401. 15:01100%. Right? The polish was more like 50
402. 15:03or 60%. And then that's the trade-off of
403. 15:06of why this the the AAA studios focus
404. 15:10on, hey, let's not try and solve every
405. 15:12problem in the world. Let's just focus
406. 15:14on the core gameplay loop and then we'll
407. 15:18make it look absolutely amazing. and and
408. 15:21that in itself is an art. And I think
409. 15:23for us um we just tried to do everything
410. 15:27which was insane considering we've never
411. 15:29made a game before.
412. 15:30>> We got a couple of uh questions from the
413. 15:32fans. Um it's about the game play. So if
414. 15:36there's a question you can't answer,
415. 15:38just simply say I'm I'm good, you know,
416. 15:40or whatever [snorts] the case may be.
417. 15:41But um they want to know will there be a
418. 15:4312 rounds added to ranked or a
419. 15:47simulation mode where we fight each
420. 15:50other no hood? Did you understand that
421. 15:53question?
422. 15:53>> Yes.
423. 15:53>> Okay.
424. 15:54>> Um
425. 15:54>> cuz I did not. [laughter]
426. 15:58>> Uh so the the the no hood scenario and
427. 16:02the number of rounds um both of those
428. 16:05aspects are being um considered right
429. 16:08now. Right. So, so uh because it is it
430. 16:11is a a request that that we have been
431. 16:14getting uh and again you know we're
432. 16:16building undisputed 2, you know, with
433. 16:18feedback from from our community as
434. 16:20well. So, uh neither of those things are
435. 16:22off the table.
436. 16:24>> Uh
437. 16:26questions about career mode. Will it be
438. 16:29sim or more arcade or a hybrid?
439. 16:34What can you tell us about the career
440. 16:35mode? Anything? Um, so what I would say
441. 16:40about that is it's going to be way more
442. 16:43immersive than than the career mode in
443. 16:46undisputed one.
444. 16:47>> Um, so undisputed one was
445. 16:49>> that sounds that's a good word.
446. 16:50>> Like you had it was almost like a
447. 16:53football manager of of of career modes
448. 16:56where um football manager of old
449. 17:00actually it was just UI screens, right?
450. 17:02there was no like you know acting there
451. 17:05were no scenes um
452. 17:07>> so so with Undisputed 2 um it's going to
453. 17:11make you feel like you're living that
454. 17:14life so so it will be more immersive um
455. 17:17it probably doesn't answer the question
456. 17:19of arcade or or or simulation yeah
457. 17:23>> you think like 2K my player kind of mode
458. 17:25where back in the day well still they
459. 17:27still do it but yeah where you you have
460. 17:29your press conferences and you draft
461. 17:32stuff.
462. 17:33>> I mean, look, I think I think the the
463. 17:34presentation, this this is what I was
464. 17:36saying about, you know, the other games
465. 17:38where the scope is small, but the the
466. 17:40the polish is amazing and the polish is
467. 17:42also things like, you know, the
468. 17:44presentation, the cut scenes, the the
469. 17:46the nice things that you see. We tried
470. 17:48to do that like with our ring walks and,
471. 17:50you know, Jimmy Lennon in the in in the
472. 17:52middle of the ring. So, I think we did a
473. 17:53pretty good job in in portraying a
474. 17:55boxing fight. Uh and look we even we we
475. 17:58even did something that no other game
476. 17:59studios done right which was we brought
477. 18:01the the trainers into the game. I did
478. 18:04renoso you know Jo Gallagher and and
479. 18:06Bulmarmac and all these guys and then we
480. 18:08had the managers like Egis and Amir
481. 18:10Abdullah and so we wanted to bring the
482. 18:12whole boxing world into this.
483. 18:13>> Mhm.
484. 18:14>> Uh even bringing compox box all these
485. 18:16all these all these organizations never
486. 18:18mind the the governing bodies. Uh, but
487. 18:20what was missing was well, yeah, we want
488. 18:23to we want to actually see,
489. 18:26you know, you being in the gym, working
490. 18:28out, right? The the the the training
491. 18:31games like all that kind of stuff.
492. 18:34>> Yeah, that funny. It's the last
493. 18:36question, I think. Uh, will it be will
494. 18:38we be able to have training and Cutman
495. 18:41and mini games?
496. 18:43>> Mini games will be undisputed.
497. 18:44>> Many games will be undisputed, too.
498. 18:45Yeah. Yeah.
499. 18:46>> Yes.
500. 18:47>> Nice. So ultimately, is the the vision
501. 18:48of the game still going to be to be the
502. 18:50best boxing sim out there, or is it
503. 18:52going to be more married in a midpoint
504. 18:53that you going to try and walk? Um,
505. 18:56>> no. In a nutshell, uh, the best boxing
506. 18:59simulation,
507. 19:00>> uh, wrapped with polish that's at AAA
508. 19:03level.
509. 19:04>> There you go. And then, uh, they they're
510. 19:06wondering, and I know this is more of a
511. 19:08business question, but what about Tito,
512. 19:10Trinidad, and Miguel Cotto? They want to
513. 19:13know if you guys are pursuing getting
514. 19:15them in the game. Yes.
515. 19:17>> Nice. Good answer. I love it. All right.
516. 19:19I'm excited. I'm h I'm happy. You good?
517. 19:21You happy?
518. 19:21>> They said they said I could pull up uh
519. 19:22Porter Way podcast. So, you know, your
520. 19:24[laughter] boy your boy will report
521. 19:25back. Good and bad.
522. 19:26>> Get some video of him playing.
523. 19:27>> Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. Un unless
524. 19:29there's an NDA you sign somewhere.
525. 19:30>> Is there anything else you you you might
526. 19:32want to plug or do?
527. 19:34>> Um
528. 19:35>> Fight Night said they're coming back.
529. 19:36What you got to say to that champ? You
530. 19:38know, we got we got to build up. We got
531. 19:40I love that. I love that. I think
532. 19:42[laughter] I think listen um like with I
533. 19:45was one of the people 10 years ago, more
534. 19:49than 10 years ago that signed a pos
535. 19:51petition to say, "Hey, make another
536. 19:52Fight Night." Like, listen, I'm I've
537. 19:54been a huge fan of the franchise.
538. 19:56>> Uh and and listen, I've said this in
539. 20:00other interviews, they set the bar so
540. 20:01high with Fight Night that they actually
541. 20:04they actually stopped any other studio
542. 20:06from even attempting to make a boxing
543. 20:08game. Like the studios were like,
544. 20:10"Listen, we ain't going to spend $50
545. 20:11million only for people to say, oh, this
546. 20:14ain't as good as Fight Night or $100
547. 20:15million to say that, right?"
548. 20:17>> But I was like, "Well, who the hell am
549. 20:18I? I'm of course I'm going to give it a
550. 20:19try. If somebody says, "This ain't as
551. 20:21good as Fight Night" then we've never
552. 20:22made a game before.
553. 20:23>> And this is the thing as well.
554. 20:24[laughter] Like like Fight Night was
555. 20:26maybe the ninth iteration because they
556. 20:28went back to the Knockout Kings, right?
557. 20:30So it wasn't like Fight Night just came
558. 20:32out of nowhere.
559. 20:33>> So they had years of iterating. And this
560. 20:35is what I say about all sports titles,
561. 20:37Madden, NHL, whatever, EFC,
562. 20:40>> and this is our very first title. But of
563. 20:43course, I'm going to expect people to
564. 20:45compare to what's come before. Um, so so
565. 20:48I love the fact that that uh EA have
566. 20:51have um you know thrown their hat in the
567. 20:54ring and I I think I'm I'm glad I can
568. 20:58take satisfaction that we've made them
569. 21:01do that.
570. 21:02>> Mhm.
571. 21:02>> Because it was always it was always a a
572. 21:05question of oh is boxing big enough for
573. 21:08us to come back in and do this or we've
574. 21:10got UFC.
575. 21:11>> Um but we we you know in in in some
576. 21:14territories we outsold UFC. M
577. 21:17>> um so I'm listen I'm I'm going to be
578. 21:21buying the game as a fan, right? Um but
579. 21:24I think I think that that aspect of it
580. 21:27is is something that competition is
581. 21:29always good for the for the players,
582. 21:30right? I'm saying that from a players
583. 21:31perspective to get people to to compete
584. 21:34in a in a in a in an area. I mean,
585. 21:36listen, we we um we improved the UFC
586. 21:41franchise
587. 21:42>> by some of the things that we didn't did
588. 21:43in Undisputed, they put in UFC. Mhm.
589. 21:46>> So, um, look, it's great to see. I think
590. 21:49I think the more boxing games there are
591. 21:51in the market.
592. 21:52>> Do you think that the financial success,
593. 21:55which I'm not super privy to, but
594. 21:57obviously the game's done well on some
595. 21:58level for sure, led to EA saying, "We're
596. 22:01going to re-enter that market, that if
597. 22:03Undisputed wasn't created, they wouldn't
598. 22:05necessarily be
599. 22:07taking this idea of making a boxing game
600. 22:09again."
601. 22:10>> I mean, look, it's it's difficult for me
602. 22:11to, you know, I can only give my opinion
603. 22:13in view, right? Um, I I I think when
604. 22:17you're at the size of EA,
605. 22:20um, their their bar of like, is this
606. 22:24game going to make $100 million a year?
607. 22:28Right. If the answer is no, then it's
608. 22:30not their it's not worth their while. I
609. 22:32mean, they they just cancelled Mass
610. 22:34Effect series, right?
611. 22:36>> Right. No more SSX, no more. and and you
612. 22:39know to a degree like I can understand
613. 22:42that at a micro level because I'm I'm
614. 22:45experiencing that going from you know a
615. 22:48two person three person four person
616. 22:50studio to 100 and I'm like oh crap like
617. 22:55>> there's a lot of cost to building this
618. 22:58right 100 people salaries wages so you
619. 23:01multiply that by 50 with year right so
620. 23:04then suddenly your bar of what game can
621. 23:06we make that's going to bring a return
622. 23:10for shareholders or whatever, right? So,
623. 23:11so they have all those things to
624. 23:13consider, but I think one thing I will
625. 23:15say is uh the buyout with PIFF and EA,
626. 23:18right? So, they bought EA for 55
627. 23:20billion,
628. 23:20>> right?
629. 23:21>> And obviously, you know, boxing is is uh
630. 23:24a big target in the Saudi space, right?
631. 23:27With the amazing things that they've
632. 23:28done in boxing, you know, putting on all
633. 23:30these super fights. Um, so, so I think
634. 23:33there's an element of
635. 23:36that driving the decision of EA, hey,
636. 23:39you're making a game, rather than EA
637. 23:41saying, we really want to make a boxing
638. 23:44game.
639. 23:44>> Right, right, right. There it is. Hey,
640. 23:47appreciate you Ash for joining the WBGC
641. 23:49platform. And, uh, guys, we're looking
642. 23:51forward to Undisputed 2. Play hard or
643. 23:54don't play at all.