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Tadashi Suzuki and Anne Bogart at Symposium on the Suzuki Method with SITI Company—Sat, June 3 2017 — Transcript

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0:25Thank you so much for the warm welcome
0:28but save your welcome for an even warmer one.
0:31Anyway.
0:32If we haven't met, I'm Anne Bogart.
0:33I'm one of the three artistic directors of SITI Company and this is the final event
0:40of the symposium we've held for the last three days.
0:44I'm speaking now to people don't know what the
0:46hell you're doing here
0:49just showed up.
0:51It's been called "transformation through training"
0:54And I think the more we've gone through these days together it's been clearly exactly
1:00those words "transformation through training". I think all of us have felt the impact of
1:06what this training has meant, what Suzuki's influence is
1:11and it's been very moving
1:12I mean at one point I think Barney, where's Barney Hanlon
1:15At the last symposium you looked up at Elle and you said
1:18"Thank you for this I can go on now"
1:20That's a company member speaking after 25 years
1:23so that's really extraordinary.
1:25So welcome to those who don't know what you're doing here
1:27This is a conversation with Suzuki Tadashi and
1:34afterwards we'll be doing a little bit of a closing ceremony for this symposium but
1:41and
1:41but I first of all I just want to thank you for being here this morning
1:44and
1:45is there anything housekeeping wise I need to say?
1:48Where's Megan Hanley
1:53(over there)
1:54This is the most important part of what I have to
1:56say which is welcome to HowlRound
2:00That we are being livestreamed right now
2:03and so there are people
2:04who are not in the room who are in the room in a very different way.
2:07We're trying to learn what that means, to be in the room and not in the room at the same time so this is part
2:11of that attempt to understand that.
2:13So welcome to HowlRound, welcome to those who are watching
2:17and without further ado I'd like to introduce you and I'm going to tell you first Cameron
2:22Steele Gould who has been with Suzuki for a long time he's going to be translating
2:25and Mr. Suzuki and Cameron please come on stage.
2:30Thank you very much.
3:05Thank you so much
3:06I'm sure Mr. Suzuki you felt a little bit of the impact in this country for your work.
3:13Yes
3:15Don't talk yet.
3:18I've warned
3:20I warned Mr. Suzuki that I'm going to talk a little bit first
3:23so I would like to start to describe to you personally what
3:30Suzuki's work has meant to me
3:32certainly to the company
3:34but also I'd like to start
3:36by speaking personally and in this little anecdote that I'd like to share with you
3:40there are a series of questions which you will understand.
3:44in 19 was it 1992 or 1993 I can't remember
3:49the first year that SITI Company when to went to Toga-Mora way up
3:53as most of you know in the far reaches of the mountains north of Toyama in Japan
3:59and we brought with us — it was the inaugural season of SITI Company, it was Suzuki's idea
4:04originally to have — to start SITI Company he proposed to me in a hotel
4:09lobby in the Mayflower Hotel, do you remember, do you remember it's now — it's now a Trump Hotel.
4:20I'm very sorry to say.
4:23And we brought with us, as the first production
4:27was a production of Orestes by Chuck Mee
4:30and we were very happily in Toga rehearsing away
4:34everything was going fine, you know rehearsing.
4:37Rehearsing has its problems and its joys
4:40and one day we were about to have our first run-through
4:44and we were at lunch and Suzuki asked me if he could come and watch the run-through
4:49I said sure why not.
4:54So he — someone had done a translation for him of the play and he came
4:58in after lunch for the run-through, very sweet came in
5:03walked over sat down in
5:04the back of the space and we proceeded to have the worst run-through I've ever been in a room with
5:12Ellen was there. Bondo was there. Tom Hewitt, who you met the other day was there.
5:19Kelly was,
5:20are you here Kelly?
5:21Kelly: Yes
5:21You remember that day? Kelly: I do
5:25It was horrible. It was terrible and I don't,
5:30I personally can never sit during rehearsal because I direct from here
5:36so I was standing through the rehearsal and I started sweating and I kept
5:41seeing everything I'd done wrong like why, what have I been doing in these rehearsals?
5:46That's wrong and that's wrong and that's wrong
5:49and the actors were terrible and they were sweating more and more.
5:53They were terrible and it was the way
5:56I mean we've all been there, right?
5:59To a bad rehearsal, but he was just sitting there sweetly hardly looking at the stage reading his translation
6:06at the end of the rehearsal he gets up and leaves
6:11I think he probably said thank you for
6:14whatever
6:15anyway he left we were all in terrible moods
6:19I cannot remember if I gave notes or what
6:21but finally the rehearsal was over and I went for a walk
6:25out in the open
6:28I had to get some air
6:29with Leon Ingulsrud
6:31who...where are you Leon?
6:32Leon: Right here
6:32And Leon at that time was a member of Suzuki's company and he also was doing
6:37what Cameron's doing now — he did it for seven years
6:40and so we were just beginning a friendship then, he was not in Orestes
6:44so he had been there during it
6:46and we went for a walk and I said
6:47"God damn it Leon what just happened?
6:51Why is it that this guy comes into the rehearsal and everything goes wrong?"
6:57And Leon said to me,
6:59(laughter)
7:04Leon said to me,
7:05"One of the first lessons I learned"
7:07and it was one of many
7:09he said
7:10now get this right Cameron.
7:12(laughter)
7:16Leon said to me, "Well I I know what happened"
7:20he said "These actors have worked in one way or another with Suzuki-san
7:24and when when he's in rehearsal he will say to an actor
7:29'A professional would see this in your work.'"
7:33I stopped — we were walking— I stopped and I went "oh"
7:39and I had this huge realization that as an American
7:43I never as a director was looking from a point of view of a professional
7:48I always look at, will Joe Schmo from Peoria get it?
7:52Do you know what I'm saying? I'm a populist.
7:55I'm a Democrat, in more ways than one.
8:01You getting that?
8:04I look at the stage from a different place.
8:08I look at it from a populist place
8:11and these actors know,
8:13not so much because they talk about it
8:16but they know that when Suzuki-san looks at the stage
8:19he's looking at them from the point of view of a professional
8:23and I thought "I could never say to an actor,
8:24'a professional sees this'
8:26I'm, I need to say: well it's got to be understood, understandble by everyone.
8:31That was one of the first moments where I understood
8:34why I have spent my life wanting to go elsewhere outside of the United States
8:39in order to understand my own culture.
8:42And in that moment
8:44it changed the way I walked into a rehearsal
8:47and the way I look at the stage.
8:50I start looking at the stage from a point of view of a
8:54point of view of a professional and that was the first thing.
8:57But the thing—and this is where the questions will come in Cameron
9:03What
9:05I encountered with Suzuki-san is that when he thinks about what a play is
9:11he doesn't have the same idea I do.
9:13When thinks what a rehearsal is,
9:15he has a completely different idea of what that is.
9:17When he thinks of what an audience is, he has a completely a different idea.
9:22When he thinks about what an actor is and what an actor is to do
9:27he has a completely different idea.
9:30So this morning what I want to start talking
9:32about is exactly that question is how do you—
9:38What is an actor?
9:40What is a play? What is an audience? The really small questions.
9:44(laughter)
9:45What is a rehearsal?
9:46I don't know Suzuki-san where you'd like to start with this,
9:50but the fundamental differences which is I think when we saw the production last night
9:55for those of us who are in the room.
9:57We felt that the air was changed, by something.
10:00And I would propose to you that it's it's cultural in a way that's not a cliche
10:05it's cultural in a way that the questions are different.
10:08The assumptions are different.
10:09So I'll finish by just saying that coming into contact with Suzuki-san
10:14and his company has changed—had me question all of the assumptions that I inherited,
10:20and then either say
10:21"Well I like mine, or I'm changing them"
10:23Do you know what I'm saying?
10:23It's not like I'm going to suddenly say: I'm becoming Japanese,
10:26but it's saying these assumptions are now in question
10:30I actually do want to change the way I look at the stage,
10:33but there's other things that I don't want to change but I own.
10:36So if you follow me, it's a different way to think of it.
10:39So I'm not sure Suzuki-san where you'd like to start.
10:43(Suzuki speaks in Japanese)
10:47So the first thing you should know
10:49is that he actually doesn't like the theater very much.
10:51(laughter)
10:56He actually kind of hates it sometimes.
10:58(Suzuki speaks)
11:02So in Japan, in high school and in college
11:04there are things called theatre clubs.
11:08(Suzuki speaks)
11:17So you know there'd be men and women in these clubs together,
11:20and his general feeling of looking at these clubs there's like:
11:23wow they're just kind of sitting around not really doing anything.
11:26(laughter)
11:27(Suzuki speaks)
11:36So they sit around, they read some European text
11:40they talk about a little bit,
11:42and that's kind of all they do, that was his impression.
11:45(Suzuki speaks)
11:46He thought maybe they're just,
11:47you know they're just, you know just, goofing off
11:51they're not really doing anything.
11:54(Suzuki speaks)
12:05So he grew up actually in a house where they practice gidayū
12:08which is the musical and vocal accompaniment
12:11to Bunraku puppet theatre, the traditional form in Japan.
12:15(Suzuki speaks)
12:17And he actually hated this even more than the contemporary theatre.
12:20(laughter)
12:22(Suzuki speaks)
12:27So what happens, for example is the musician sits
12:29in the middle of a room
12:31with his legs on the floor
12:33Strumming the shamisen.
12:35(Suzuki demonstrates and vocalizes)
12:41And they're just sitting there alone making all these faces and sounds.
12:44(Suzuki speaks)
12:47And he was just an elementary school student, he was forced to,
12:50sort of sit there in the room and watch this.
12:52(Suzuki speaks)
12:54And they said, "watch this"
12:56(Suzuki speaks)
12:58and he had to sit there for an hour.
13:03(laughter)
13:05(Suzuki speaks)
13:07he was terrified
13:08(Suzuki speaks)
13:19And he had nightmares about it later.
13:22(Suzuki speaks)
13:27If this is the real Japan, I really hate Japanese.
13:32(laughter)
13:33(Suzuki speaks)
13:38So then he went on to high school, and went on to college.
13:42(Suzuki speaks)
13:43So and then he tried to do, you know, as far away from this kind of thing as he could.
13:48(Suzuki speaks)
13:50He sort of became a European intellectual.
13:53(Suzuki speaks and sings)
13:59(Laughter)
14:01Listening to classical music and writing his thoughts.
14:04(Suzuki speaks)
14:08He'd be sitting in cafes listening to classical music.
14:11(Suzuki speaks)
14:15He really thought the theatre is waste of time.
14:18(Suzuki speaks)
14:19He really hated it, in the beginning.
14:23(Suzuki speaks)
14:34So his real focus early on was in you know the
14:40the classics right and the plays and literature
14:42that came out of ancient Greece and then the Romans and then the Europeans
14:46falling into Russian literature he really followed that historically in his study.
14:50(Suzuki speaks)
14:57So the
14:58the source of the Western lexicon of drama is Greek tragedy.
15:04(Suzuki speaks)
15:05Well in France of course you have Racine.
15:08(Suzuki speaks)
15:09And you have Chekov in Russia
15:12(Suzuki speaks)
15:14And so there's a basic lexicon of books that you need to
15:18and plays you need to read to understand Western, basic Western theatre
15:22(Suzuki speaks)
15:33So he thought in the course of his studies
15:36the best way to — sort of deal with this
15:40Japan that he'd grown to hate so much
15:43was to approach it through the lens of the Western cannon
15:47(Suzuki speaks)
15:51Through the theatre
15:53he would understand Japan
15:55(Suzuki speaks)
15:57and he could understand the countries outside of Japan
16:02(Suzuki speaks)
16:04And the
16:04the
16:05his strategy for going about that, three element
16:08(Suzuki speaks)
16:13And the first element — he talked about this in New York a little bit
16:16was the use of language
16:18(Suzuki speaks)
16:21In language you have history
16:24(Suzuki speaks)
16:29Within language you have the mentality and the history of different peoples
16:34(Suzuki speaks)
16:38Then there's the physical aspect of theatre
16:41you can't make theatre without evolving on
16:45(Suzuki speaks)
16:59So looking at the body
17:00you can see very clearly
17:01what makes people from different civilizations different
17:05the way they were raised and traditions they have
17:08the kind of education they have
17:09it all shows up in the body.
17:11(Suzuki speaks)
17:19For example if someone gets infected by
17:21a certain strange bacteria depending on their body it'll show up it will manifest itself
17:25a different way.
17:27(Suzuki speaks)
17:31And if there's any kind of
17:33if you have an accident
17:35the way your body responds to that is different depending on your specific
17:38physical makup.
17:40(Suzuki speaks)
17:42It's a physical action
17:44(Suzuki speaks)
17:51So language, the body, and the group
17:56(Suzuki speaks)
18:03So — you know — when you
18:04when you have the impulse to be creative, it's something you do on your own
18:08you imagine something.
18:10(Suzuki speaks)
18:17So
18:18So perhaps the easiest group to sort of
18:21imagine is a group — a couple, two lovers.
18:25They're very easily able to come up with a shared vision of something
18:30(Suzuki speaks)
18:40But basically when you have groups that involve three people
18:44or more it starts to become more complicated.
18:47How do you decide on rules...
18:50that everyone's going to agree on?
18:52(Suzuki speaks)
18:54And
18:54And that's sort of the way — the idea of nation begins...
18:58starting with three.
19:00(Suzuki speaks)
19:04So the family in a way is the beginning
19:07(Suzuki speaks)
19:13So if you think of family, if you think of nation
19:16for it to function
19:18you need rule.
19:20(Suzuki speaks)
19:28And so in his thinking about
19:30he thought
19:30"Well, how these rules get arrived at?
19:33Who decided them?
19:34Who will decide them?
19:36That seems to be at the crux of how these groups are made and maintained.
19:40(Suzuki speaks)
19:54And so as he started to think about the theatre
19:56he focused more and on these three aspects:
20:00How do I deal with language?
20:01How do I deal with the body?
20:02How do I sustain a group?
20:05(Suzuki speaks)
20:20So you can use, or he started to use
20:23this troika of elements and lenses
20:25to not just examine his own culture and country
20:28but to look at America. Look at France
20:31to see, by having the same lens
20:33how different cultures showed up.
20:36(Suzuki speaks)
20:41So if you read Dostoyevsky or you read Kafka you get a good idea of those individual
20:47points of view.
20:49(Suzuki speaks)
21:07And its true with contemporary authors too
21:09right
21:10by looking at this individual's perspective
21:12you can
21:13you can get a sense of their ideas
21:16but it's more complicated to get the bigger picture
21:19what what is the whole context in which this person grew up?
21:24What is the national context?
21:26What is the popular — cultural context that this came out of?
21:30It's harder to get a sense of that just from reading.
21:33(Suzuki speaks)
21:37And in the theatre however you're working with a group of people,
21:40a theatre company.
21:42(Suzuki speaks)
21:54So right away what happens when you start to make a group
21:58is you start to have rules and you see right away
22:01who is attracted to those rules,
22:03who starts to work against those rules,
22:05who commits to them,
22:07who drops out,
22:08it becomes clear pretty quickly.
22:10(Suzuki speaks)
22:19So you look at politics this is pretty clear, right?
22:23You can see the kinds of folks who agree
22:25with Trump's rules they're really decisive, right? In a kind of way.
22:29(Suzuki speaks)
22:36And in China you have the Communist Party
22:38and the people that really follow the Party line.
22:42(Suzuki speaks)
22:50So it becomes about who controls those rules
22:53(Suzuki speaks)
22:56In the managing and directing of a theatre company
23:00it also becomes quite clear.
23:02(Suzuki speaks)
23:12It's also true for a ballet troupe or a symphony orchestra.
23:16(Suzuki speaks)
23:23You can look at the rules that either of these forms or these groups have and think:
23:28What is the history of these rules?
23:31Who's decided these rules over time?
23:34(Suzuki speaks)
23:37And that was attractive to him, it interested him.
23:40(Suzuki speaks)
23:48And
23:49And the reason for that is
23:51it's not enough just to
23:53think about yourself, right?
23:55You have to think about the other.
23:57What is the other perspective?
23:59How can I see things from a different perspective?
24:03(Suzuki speaks)
24:11So, just to respond to Anne's question
24:13(laughs)
24:14What's my...first impulse in choosing a text for example?
24:18(Suzuki speaks)
24:23So as he said before, "I hated Japan"
24:28(Suzuki speaks)
24:32It wasn't just that he hated Japanese theatre
24:34theatre people
24:35(Suzuki speaks)
24:36He also hated the politician.
24:39He hated the social system.
24:42(Suzuki speaks)
24:44That was just his base feeling just about toward everything
24:46(Suzuki speaks)
24:49Well, not everything
24:52(Suzuki speaks)
24:54It was that there were certain things that really bugged him
24:58(Suzuki speaks)
25:14So now when he thinks back to his uncle
25:16playing the shamisen and making all the gidayū performance in front of him
25:20he thinks, "Wow my uncle was really great!
25:24He put this little elementary school kid in front of him, put all of his heart into showing me this thing
25:28that he knew I would never understand."
25:31(Suzuki speaks)
25:46It would put him in a room and make him listen to Mozart and talk about the effect that it was having on
25:51him and he thought, "Wow these were really great things that they made me do,
25:56it helped me become an adult."
25:58(Suzuki speaks)
26:25So the thing that really hooked him, was this idea of,
26:31"I have my worldview. I have the things I believe...
26:35but what happens when I talk to you?"
26:37And you have a different perspective but how can we come together and form a
26:42shared perspective?" He was really interested in the process through which that could happen.
26:48(Suzuki speaks)
26:52It wasn't just a spiritual concern it was also about action — physical action.
26:58(Suzuki speaks)
27:00That's why he ended up going into the mountains.
27:03(Suzuki speaks)
27:08In Japan, for the years especially when he was growing up there was this
27:13exodus from the country into the cities.
27:15(Suzuki speaks)
27:21The west coast of Japan, along the Japan Sea
27:24most of the people living in this part of the country migrated towards the East
27:29towards the urban centers.
27:32(Suzuki speaks)
27:38And he thought, "We need to do something about it,
27:40we can't just all live in the city.
27:43How do we bring life back into these abandoned parts of the country?"
27:47(Suzuki speaks)
28:09He thought this exodus into
28:10the urban centers was going to over the long run damage the rich history, legacy
28:19of Japanese culture. He though, "Well I've gotta do something to stem that trend
28:25I've got to work against that to somehow create something new and hold onto
28:29our history, hold onto legacy."
28:32(Suzuki speaks)
28:35So in the case of Trojan Women, which you saw yesterday
28:38(Suzuki speaks)
28:42— it wasn't always only the protagonist—
28:47isn't only an old Japanese woman after World War II, it's not limited to that interpretation.
28:55(Suzuki speaks)
28:58Japan invaded China for example
29:00— destroyed towns —
29:03Japan made a colony of Korea during the war.
29:07(Suzuki speaks)
29:16So until, and really Japan has never been a colony, right?
29:21Even though we had the occupied forces there after World War II
29:25it's one of the only countries in Asia — East Asia — that has not been colonized
29:30(Suzuki speaks)
29:34But it was extremely down and out in those years immediately following the war.
29:41(Suzuki speaks)
29:43And there was a kind of attempt to forget the past,
29:47forget memory.
29:49(Suzuki speaks)
29:51And he was saying, "No, we have to very deliberately — you know — interrogate
29:56and continue to examine what's happened."
30:00(Suzuki speaks)
30:07So it wasn't just a comment on the misery of Japan
30:12after World War II. It was, we have to work hard so this doesn't happen again.
30:18We need to continue to interrogate the issues that caused this to happen in the first place.
30:23(Suzuki speaks)
30:30And so at that time the
30:33the religious sort of, environment in Japan was
30:38also not, didn't have power — didn't have the power to keep the tradition.
30:44(Suzuki speaks)
30:47It's
30:48It's a little bit, you know the way the Vatican operated right after World War II as well, right
30:57(Suzuki speaks)
31:03There's, many of you may know the story of the Vatican not necessarily being against
31:09what the Nazis were doing and being the ones who
31:12allowed many of them to escape to South America for example.
31:15(Suzuki speaks)
31:26So you couldn't really depend on the religious organizations — religious structures
31:31to hold the cultures together, to hold the ideals together either.
31:35(Suzuki speaks)
31:37And then you have extremism that happens as well and you can see that now in ISIS
31:44(Suzuki speaks)
31:53So as a way to keep interrogating this issue of why
31:57this extreme — this religious extremism — continues to have this damaging effect...
32:02any kind of extremism has a damaging effect.
32:05Those issues are treated very clearly and directly in this play
32:08(Suzuki speaks)
32:13When he did Tale of Lear in the 80s
32:16Reagan was President
32:18(Suzuki speaks)
32:19And it was "Family Values" was a catchphrase, at the time
32:23(Suzuki speaks)
32:26and at the time there was a, you know, family structure was sort of falling apart in Japan.
32:34(Suzuki speaks)
32:42So it, previously you'd have three generations living in a single Japanese house
32:48that that system was breaking down
32:51so that you'd start to have, you know nuclear families just
32:54you'd have just two generations or just one generation.
32:56(Suzuki speaks)
33:13So this idea of fighting over inheritance
33:15of like you know the family conflict it's what drove him to choose King Lear
33:20and also to choose Electra.
33:22(Suzuki speaks)
33:26And to examine the family conflict he thought
33:29using the classics was a good— using using tradition is a good
33:34(Suzuki speaks)
33:39The reason to use
33:41The reason to use the classics and use a traditional forms
33:46is a way to reinforce this idea that human beings don't really change.
33:51(Suzuki speaks)
33:56If you look at the Trojan Women, you know the Trojans completely lost that war, they were destroyed.
34:02(Suzuki speaks)
34:04All the Trojan warriors— the males — were killed,
34:07(Suzuki speaks)
34:09and the — all the castle completely leveled to the ground
34:13(Suzuki speaks)
34:16it wasn't an occupation it was a complete annihilation
34:21(Suzuki speaks)
34:22and destruction of the entire race of people.
34:28(Suzuki speaks)
34:38This idea of genocide, of wiping out an entire an entire race of people
34:41you can see now also in the rhetoric of ISIS.
34:46(Suzuki speaks)
34:51So religious extremism has this rhetoric built into it, right?
34:56Complete annihilation of the other.
34:59(Suzuki speaks)
35:02There, the the other is called "evil" and so it gives you permission to annihilate.
35:09(Suzuki speaks)
35:23But the real, again hook for him was beyond the narrative
35:28it was the fact that Euripides, who was from the winning side
35:33chose to write this.
35:35It wasn't a Trojan author, it was the winner who said,
35:38"We have to look at what we've done."
35:40(Suzuki speaks)
35:52He thought, "Euripides chose the Queen of the losing side as the protagonist
35:59and the lens through which to talk about this historical event.
36:02That's amazing. I want to do that."
36:05(Suzuki speaks)
36:24So he realized that what it means
36:26to be a theatre person — going all the way back to Euripides
36:29is to have this spirit of interrogating the status quo, of
36:36of always intellectually looking at what's happening and questioning it.
36:40And that's what pulled him in
36:43(Suzuki speaks)
36:48If you look at Brecht, if you look at Arthur Miller, if you look at Ibsen...
36:53they've all had this way to interrogate what's going on
36:58(Suzuki speaks)
37:01And eventually what happens
37:02when you do this is you you start to have conflict with those in power.
37:08(Suzuki speaks)
37:11Euripides, you know was in many ways punished
37:14for his points of view.
37:19Anne: You bring up the huge word
37:23which is the "other"
37:24you say, "making the other evil"
37:27and Euripides is engaged in with the other
37:31this side that was defeated.
37:34And I'm so
37:38thrilled in a way to hear you talk about your own
37:40dissatisfaction as a young director — a young person— in Japan
37:45or as Martha Graham called it: "Divine Disatisfaction"
37:51And the fact that you looked to the literature and to
37:56Europe and other places as a way of looking back at your own civilization, to your
38:04own culture and I believe in that as well in order to look at say an American culture I
38:09have to look at it through the lens of the other and that seems to be the
38:13fundamental job of the artist but also subject matter right now because of the
38:18current change in not only the administration here with Trump, but also
38:33that the issue of the other and the
38:37demonization of the other is a big deal and so I want a look at the moment...
38:45I want to look at the moment Suzuki-san you as a young director and your company
38:51went to France for the first time and your work was discovered by France and
38:56really celebrated and Jean-Louis Barrault said
38:59this is the work to pay attention to.
39:02Something happened to you in that moment as a director, as an artist in the
39:08world and I think you came back to Japan in a different way and I wonder if you
39:11could describe that trip, if you could describe going to, to France
39:17performing Trojan Women 40, 40 years ago and and something happened.
39:25What was that?
39:27(Suzuki speaks)
39:30So we have another three main points to talk about
39:33(Suzuki speaks)
39:36So of course Jean-Louis Barrault was the famous mime and producer
39:42he was a leader in the French theatre at that time, the 60s.
39:45(Suzuki speaks)
39:48He had seen his training quite a bit — Suzuki's training
39:51(Suzuki speaks)
39:55And he invited Suzuki various times
39:57(Suzuki speaks)
39:59It was
40:00The festival was called, "The Theatre of Nations"
40:02which was a
40:03(Suzuki speaks)
40:08it was groups from over 50 countries invited to France
40:12to do a big international festival
40:14which happened frequently in the 60s and 70s
40:17(Suzuki speaks)
40:21The thing that most surprised him was the theatre that he performed in
40:24it was a space about this big
40:26(Suzuki speaks)
40:28it was square
40:29(Suzuki speaks)
40:33and it was actually previously an apartment building.
40:37(Suzuki speaks)
40:40And then they had made a kinda circular stage within this square
40:44(Suzuki speaks)
40:46He was 32
40:48(Suzuki speaks)
40:51And the audience seats were just basically plastic sheets
40:57and they put some cushions on top of them
40:59(Suzuki speaks)
41:05You know his image of you know having a part of a French theatre festival
41:10was he'd be in the you know Opera Paris with thousands of seats
41:14and this amazing velvet curtain.
41:16(Suzuki speaks)
41:21Man so the Japanese government gave him a lot of money
41:24and he sort of had these expectations going into it.
41:27(Suzuki speaks)
41:30It looked
41:31(Suzuki speaks)
41:33It looked like a sort of a you know sort of a low-grade pro-wrestling venue
41:42(Suzuki speaks)
41:43and all of the company arrived and they were all psyched
41:46and then they saw the space and they were
41:48(Suzuki speaks)
41:50and they're like, "So this is the state of the theatre in France? This is a French theatre?"
41:56(Suzuki speaks)
41:57So I was first of all shocked
41:59(Suzuki speaks)
42:05And so you know he went to find the artistic director
42:08Jean-Louis Barrault's office
42:10and it was like in this
42:12beat up old, what was a kitchen in this apartment.
42:14(Suzuki speaks)
42:17And so he said "I'm waiting for you in my office please come." So he went.
42:20(Suzuki speaks)
42:25So it was a kitchen, and there was a little cot in the corner
42:29(Suzuki speaks)
42:30and he was over there taking a nap, when he came in
42:34(Suzuki speaks)
42:36He thought, "So this is leader of French theatre?"
42:39(laughter)
42:41(Suzuki speaks)
42:50He thought, "Oh well this is just the assistant of the assistant who is going to meet me here and then
42:54take me to meet Jean-Louis Barrault"
42:59But he
42:59then he hopped up off the cot he said, "Oh nice to meet you"
43:02(Suzuki speaks)
43:04Shocked by that too.
43:05(Suzuki speaks)
43:11And the other big shock for him
43:13was the complexity
43:16and diversity of the audience
43:20many different races many different
43:23cultures represented
43:25(Suzuki speaks)
43:29Not just European diversity, from Africa. People from Arabia.
43:32(Suzuki speaks)
43:35Wherever you go in Japan the audience will only be Japanese
43:38(Suzuki speaks)
43:42If you ride the subway, it's hard to find someone who's not Japanese
43:47(Suzuki speaks)
43:51And so suddenly being in front of so many
43:54different nationalities and races was a shock to them.
43:58(Suzuki speaks)
44:14And it
44:15There on those veneer seats he saw the French minister of culture
44:19and Jerzy Grotowski
44:20and Ariane Mnouchkine
44:22and Peter Brook, they were are all there
44:23on the plastic.
44:25(laughter)
44:26(Suzuki speaks)
44:28They didn't even have seats,
44:30they were just on little cushions, like you guys on the floor.
44:34(Suzuki speaks)
44:38He was impressed
44:40(Suzuki speaks)
44:47So if this was the theatre for example
44:49you can imagine that the audience we had last night
44:52was stacked up until the very edge of the stage
44:55you couldn't fit another soul in this place.
44:57(Suzuki speaks)
45:00He thought, "Well could you
45:01please not seat any more people actually on the stage"
45:05(Suzuki speaks)
45:10And then Jean-Louis Barrault comes in
45:13and he's like nailing down little barriers...
45:15(laughter)
45:17had some nails and some spare wood
45:19and he just started to make a square.
45:21(Suzuki speaks)
45:26But what moved him was the degree of intimacy
45:30that this space was capable of creating.
45:31(Suzuki speaks)
45:39And in that moment he realized it's not that they don't have money, they want to
45:43create this kind of experience.
45:46(Suzuki speaks)
45:51It was an attitude of: well you don't like this kind of theatre
45:54well, there's the door.
45:57(Suzuki speaks)
46:07So, you know
46:07he
46:08Jean-Louis Barrault came out, and he had his nail-can
46:11he had his hammer
46:12he not only made this
46:13he made a few
46:13hanamichi — right? Little aisles
46:16that the actors could enter through.
46:18He was there standing alongside Mr. Suzuki
46:20(Suzuki speaks)
46:28And
46:29Normally
46:30you'd have a director yelling at all the
46:32you know staff and actors to do all this work
46:35that he was doing.
46:37(Suzuki speaks)
46:42And he was amazed
46:43at the potential
46:45of the human being.
46:46(Suzuki speaks)
46:48He thought, "Human beings can go this far"
46:51(Suzuki speaks)
46:57He thought, "Wow, I'm — I, in this life you could meet
47:02amazing people if you try."
47:04(Suzuki speaks)
47:06And he
47:07He sought this kind of person
47:09in Jean-Louis Barrault
47:10and he was completely inspired by his spirit,
47:14and also with you.
47:16(laughter)
47:17(Suzuki speaks)
47:20He thought
47:20you also were wonderful
47:22(Suzuki speaks)
47:24when you first met
47:26(Suzuki speaks)
47:28He thought you were a little bit like a
47:29hippie
47:29but
47:32it was back through TCG
47:35(Suzuki speaks)
47:38When he first had those meetings with TCG
47:39that was the first time
47:40I did go to Woodstock
47:42(laughter)
47:45(Suzuki speaks)
47:47That was
47:48He's not surprised
47:50(laughter)
47:54(Suzuki speaks)
47:57Ya there's some weirdos in the United States
47:59that's for sure
48:01(laughter)
48:05This space you've transformed completely
48:08and those of us in this room,
48:09I see Lary Opitz over there
48:10who's been in here awhile.
48:12Have you seen this space like this before?
48:14No, but we'll use it next year.
48:16Yeah you cannot.
48:17For those of you who've not been in this room before this
48:20this space is completely transformed. It was it was very theatre unfriendly in
48:25some ways until Suzuki-san and his company came in and transformed it into
48:31this where suddenly
48:33where suddenly the relationship between the actors and the
48:36audience is very intimate. We were talking about learning about intimacy and you
48:42developed a relationship with Isozaki, the great Japanese architect
48:49and have made many many buildings in Japan that are essentially audience-actor friendly.
48:56And the only other person I know who thinks that way is is the French
49:03designer who works with Peter Brook.
49:06What's his name?
49:07Jean-Guy Lecat,
49:09who also thinks about
49:10the stage's relationship to the human being in relationship
49:14with the audience.
49:16And so I have two questions:
49:17One, how did you come upon this plan of transforming the space here?
49:23Because it's completely different and
49:25Two
49:27what
49:29Can you describe your relationship
49:30with Mr. Isozaki
49:32and
49:33and your thoughts about space
49:35and theatre and actors
49:43(Suzuki speaks)
49:49So when he first came in there were the blacks hung all across the space
49:53hung all across the space
49:53in the wings
49:54and behind, the back wall.
49:57(Suzuki speaks)
49:59and the
50:01the
50:01He realized that the
50:03the quality of the curtains and of the wall here all
50:08were sort of different
50:09(Suzuki speaks)
50:15And the lighting instruments and the way
50:18he uses them
50:19are very focused.
50:20High intensity, they create a high level of contrast
50:23on stage.
50:24(Suzuki speaks)
50:28And
50:29Because of the way he uses the body
50:32and its close to the ground
50:34Oftentimes the angle of the face is a bit down
50:37(Suzuki speaks)
50:40If you only use lights above
50:44your face becomes in shadow
50:46so you have to use shin-busters
50:47you have to use low
50:49(Suzuki speaks)
50:54And one of the things he has to consider
50:56since he needs to use
50:58side light and shin-busters
50:59is how do you make the instruments less present
51:02for the audience
51:03(Suzuki speaks)
51:12So because you're using shin-busters
51:15shadow becomes an important element
51:18and the way you see shadow
51:21the way it reflects off the wall is
51:23quite different if you're using a curtain
51:25verses just on the plain wall.
51:27(Suzuki speaks)
51:35So that's why we've sort of, hidden the lights behind
51:39(Suzuki speaks)
51:43But he felt right away
51:44the best thing is
51:45to try to strip as much as possible
51:48so that the shadow has the most effect.
51:50(Suzuki speaks)
51:54And that way it actually makes it easier — there's more
51:56there's more
51:57fluidity in the space
51:58it's easier to begin and enter.
52:00(Suzuki speaks)
52:07And his thinking about being
52:09in a theatre building is you have to use
52:11the architectural qualities that are already there
52:14you have to use
52:15what's
52:16what's existing
52:17(Suzuki speaks)
52:24So he's got five theatre in Toga
52:26but he almost never builds a set.
52:31(Suzuki speaks)
52:34But there are very few architects who will think like that.
52:37(Suzuki speaks)
52:40They wanna show off their ideas,
52:42their designs.
52:43(Suzuki speaks)
52:54But Isozaki and Suzuki were good friends
52:57and their collaboration was:
53:00Suzuki would make some sketches,
53:01hand them over to Isozaki,
53:03and Isozaki would come back with architectural drawing.
53:06(Suzuki speaks)
53:13And he also lets him, you know mess up his building
53:15when he needs to — painting — he can paint on anything,
53:18do whatever.
53:19(Suzuki speaks)
53:25Probably if he suddenly was given this theatre
53:28he'd start changing the
53:30painting on the sort of the
53:32white walls there and columns
53:34(Suzuki speaks)
53:35Anne: What would he paint it? He'd paint it something different?
53:37(Cameron speaks in Japanese)
53:39(Suzuki speaks)
53:48He'd do something so that the
53:51white border there wasn't quite so
53:53(Suzuki speaks)
53:55He'd try to maybe make it look more metallic
53:57and darker— dark
54:01like a dark metal gray
54:03(Suzuki speaks)
54:04texture
54:05(Suzuki speaks)
54:09So that the quality between the space
54:10and that is just
54:12subtly different.
54:14(Suzuki speaks)
54:23So that when you stand on the stage
54:26from the actor's point of view
54:28he can sort of feel
54:29more clearly
54:30the presence
54:31of this, this ring
54:31this space
54:32on your body.
54:33(Suzuki speaks)
54:38So the feeling you get looking at the catwalk
54:40Verses the feeling you get looking at
54:42this white border is different.
54:43(Suzuki speaks)
54:45The audience doesn't notice this,
54:47but the actor does.
54:48So somehow to create
54:49a more specific relationship
54:51between that part of the space.
54:53(Suzuki speaks)
54:59So I start to become really obsessed with these
55:00kinds of things.
55:02(laughter)
55:03(Suzuki speaks)
55:15It's one of the side effects of being a director
55:18you get invited to somebody's house
55:19and right away you're like
55:20"Why did they put that light over there?"
55:22(laughter)
55:23"Why did they put that curtain there?"
55:24And so he actually never
55:25takes an invitation to people's houses.
55:28(laughter)
55:29(Suzuki speaks)
55:33And he really has a hard time
55:35producing in other people's theatres
55:38(Suzuki speaks)
55:41But here he was lucky
55:42and he was able to find a solution.
55:44Thank you, for letting us work this
55:47I think you've made this theatre yours from now on
55:50It's going to be called the
55:52"Suzuki Tadashi Theatre"
55:57Now I'm going to ask
55:58just one or two more questions
56:00and then I'd like to open it up so get ready.
56:02To ask questions ladies and gents.
56:06The members of this symposium
56:09two nights ago came to a rehearsal of Trojan Women
56:13and you said to
56:15the assembled
56:16who was here for the rehearsal
56:17you said, "Don't get upset if I yell, I'm not yelling at you,
56:21I'm yelling at the actors."
56:32And it's—
56:33Your relationship with actors is very particular
56:37and
56:37the first time I saw the you actually rehearse was in Mito
56:42you were actually in rehearsal.
56:45And you would clap
56:47and everyone on the stage stopped
56:49and have to hold their
56:49position while you worked with one actor, in a loud voice for a very long time.
56:56and
56:59And afterwards I asked one of the actors
57:03what they thought of having to hold
57:05their position for so long
57:07really like 20 minutes
57:09something like 20 minutes
57:11and how it was
57:15and I also said
57:16I also asked this person
57:18why it is
57:19cause they were
57:20Ellen and Kelly were on stage in that time
57:22it was for Dionysus
57:24and I asked why
57:25Suzuki doesn't yell at American actors.
57:29He seemed to yell at the Japanese actors.
57:32And the answer
57:33that I got back was twofold.
57:36First about holding position for a long time
57:39the actor I spoke with said it's actually great because for 20 minutes
57:43I'm living with the mistake I probably made
57:47and I'll
57:49and I'll never
57:51I'll never make that mistake.
57:54And number two — and I found this fascinating
57:56and I wonder if you think this is true
57:59that what Suzuki was looking for
58:02with the Japanese actors, the American actors could do already it was that he
58:07was asking them to differentiate themselves, one from another — again it's a
58:12cultural issue — that Americans don't have a problem being different from each
58:16other on the stage
58:18Do you follow me?
58:20But that he was trying to get the Japanese actors to
58:22actually differentiate one from the other.
58:26So my questions are about your personal relationship to actors
58:33He's not really yelling at actors
58:36(laughter)
58:38(Suzuki speaks)
58:41He passionately making
58:44making you know
58:45demands
58:46Raising the bar
58:48(Suzuki speaks)
58:55So the reason why he wasn't giving any notes to Kelly and Ellen
58:59was you know he
59:00he doesn't speak English.
59:02(laughter)
59:08(Suzuki speaks)
59:12If he was fluent he
59:13it could go on for hours.
59:15(laugher)
59:19(Suzuki speaks)
59:24So whenever there was a time when there were
59:26notes for Ellen or Kelly
59:28it was like "okay let's take a break"
59:29and then he would focus on them.
59:31It would take more time.
59:33(Suzuki speaks)
59:44So if you look at Karajan, the famous conductor maybe there's some similarity
59:51he's one of these conductors that when he's working
59:54on opera he'll get up from the orchestra pit
59:57or wherever he's working — he'll start dancing
59:59he'll start moving you know, on stage.
1:00:01(Suzuki speaks)
1:00:06And also Mr. Suzuki
1:00:08oftentimes will go out and show
1:00:10an actor, with his own body.
1:00:13(Suzuki speaks)
1:00:15But
1:00:17He would have to do it with Kelly and Ellen
1:00:19because he couldn't tell them.
1:00:20(Suzuki speaks)
1:00:26And then later in the sort of a separate place
1:00:29with the translators
1:00:31very
1:00:31sort of
1:00:33carefully explain to them what was going on
1:00:35wrong.
1:00:36(laughs)
1:00:37(Suzuki speaks)
1:00:39And then
1:00:40Then you could just say, "Well if the acting's no good
1:00:42then it must have been a problem with the translation."
1:00:44(laughter)
1:00:46(Suzuki speaks)
1:00:47And then if it goes well
1:00:48then he took the credit.
1:00:49(laughter)
1:00:50(Suzuki speaks)
1:00:53So that was...
1:00:55He had many experiences like that.
1:00:57(Suzuki speaks)
1:00:59So
1:01:00Any way it becomes the translator's fault.
1:01:03(laughter)
1:01:08I wrote this out to Ellen yesterday
1:01:10and she said, "No you know, actually the way
1:01:12he speaks with each actor is very very very different."
1:01:16It might sound to me like yelling
1:01:18but it's actually extremely different.
1:01:24So how
1:01:25You were saying you're in rehearsal
1:01:27you're working with an actor
1:01:30you approach them
1:01:33How do you adjust?
1:01:37(Suzuki speaks)
1:01:50So because he himself trained his body as an actor,
1:01:54he has become quite adept at
1:01:55being able to see in other bodies too
1:01:58where there's a problem.
1:02:00(Suzuki speaks)
1:02:11So this actor could be maneuvering very quickly
1:02:14across the space and keep this level.
1:02:15This other actor could be able to stand
1:02:17He can see
1:02:19that the abilities
1:02:20the special abilities
1:02:22you know, differently in each person.
1:02:24(Suzuki speaks)
1:02:35So the
1:02:36his process of rehearsal is
1:02:38he lets them work on own for a time, right?
1:02:41Learning the choreography Learning the sequence
1:02:44(Suzuki speaks)
1:02:50And so when he sees something that isn't
1:02:51quite right — doesn't have the quality he's searching for
1:02:54he'll get up, and show them.
1:02:57(Suzuki speaks)
1:03:04And because he's in Toga
1:03:06he's not limited in any way by time and space
1:03:10he can be there as long as he needs to be
1:03:12until an actor really starts to get what he's looking for.
1:03:14(Suzuki speaks)
1:03:17It's all
1:03:17They're all government facilities in Toga
1:03:19they're owned by
1:03:21(Suzuki speaks)
1:03:23And so all the government workers
1:03:24the people that administer the Toga Art Park —where his theatres are— they all go home at five
1:03:31they go home at five but he has all the keys
1:03:35(laughter)
1:03:36(Suzuki speaks)
1:03:37he's got a keychain like this
1:03:39(Suzuki speaks)
1:03:47So often what he'll do
1:03:49is he'll give you know, an outline
1:03:51he'll let them work on it and then when they're ready
1:03:54or when he thinks they should be ready
1:03:55he'll show up. And see how it's going.
1:03:58(Suzuki speaks)
1:04:05So
1:04:07For to make an allusion an illusion
1:04:09it's a little bit like cooking rice
1:04:13(Suzuki speaks)
1:04:16so when you're cooking sushi rice
1:04:19right — the rice sticks together
1:04:21(Suzuki speaks)
1:04:24not all rice grains are the same
1:04:27some are big, some are small
1:04:29they stick together.
1:04:30(Suzuki speaks)
1:04:33So depending on how they're shaped
1:04:34sometimes they get stickier or less sticky.
1:04:37(Suzuki speaks)
1:04:38But anyway they all
1:04:39they all make a
1:04:41a big glob.
1:04:43(Suzuki speaks)
1:04:48So you stick together.
1:04:50(Suzuki speaks)
1:04:59So you
1:05:00you end up getting stuck together
1:05:01but the shape doesn't look so nice
1:05:20So in order for it to become a nice roll
1:05:23you need
1:05:24a sheet of nori seeweed
1:05:26that you can put
1:05:27around it — to give it — to contain.
1:05:31(Suzuki speaks)
1:05:36And so that that nori is the grammar of the Suzuki method
1:05:40and that's what creates the form.
1:05:44(Suzuki speaks)
1:05:45And then everyone sticks together
1:05:48Anne: I was wondering where you were going
1:05:52(laughter)
1:05:59(Suzuki speaks)
1:06:17So the creation of a method is needed to contain the actors, right
1:06:22if a
1:06:23if it's not there, you see that it's ripped right
1:06:27You see that it's looser, wet, or soggy
1:06:29It doesn't keep
1:06:30the shape or form.
1:06:32(Suzuki speaks)
1:06:44So for example he'll often ask an actor to move across the space
1:06:47keeping their center at the same height, right
1:06:50But if their nori's not in good shape
1:06:52they'll float up and down
1:06:54and it'll look kinda messy.
1:06:56(Suzuki speaks)
1:07:00So he has certain rules that are created by the grammar
1:07:04but then he also
1:07:05he also tries to let there be freedom
1:07:08within that structure.
1:07:09(Suzuki speaks)
1:07:21So — and then
1:07:22what he really wants to do
1:07:24is kind of — you know, go
1:07:26make sure you understand that
1:07:28that the image that is sometimes out there in the world
1:07:31about Mr. Suzuki
1:07:32that he's a tyrant, that he's abusive...
1:07:35all of these things.
1:07:37He really want to set the record straight
1:07:39(laughter)
1:07:41(Suzuki speaks)
1:07:52So when an actress
1:07:54in Jean-Louis Barrault's company
1:07:56saw him working
1:07:58with the actors in the '60s
1:08:00when he was bringing the Trojan Women to the Theatre of Nations
1:08:04she asked him, "Mr. Suzuki when did you become a feminist?"
1:08:08(Suzuki speaks)
1:08:13So he's — he's not a feminist,
1:08:15he's not any of these things that have a label
1:08:17(Suzuki speaks)
1:08:19And he's not enormously a male chauvinist pig
1:08:22(laughter)
1:08:25This is the time where we're going to open this to questions
1:08:29if anybody has any
1:08:31Yes, and if you would introduce yourself
1:08:33And
1:08:37Ah great
1:08:41Suzuki-san
1:08:49Good evening.
1:08:50I'm Dominic Paige from
1:08:51Montreal Canada this is this is how the show yesterday
1:08:53Mr. Suzuki
1:08:55Mr. Suzuki, I saw the show yesterday
1:08:58I'd like to first thank you and please ask you to on my behalf
1:09:02congratulate the whole team.
1:09:05I have two questions
1:09:07You've always promoted
1:09:11international collaboration — cross-pollination yourself having gone to the West
1:09:21I would like — my two questions kind of touch on that
1:09:25The first one being I'd like
1:09:26you to talk a bit about relationship with Tadeusz Kantor from
1:09:31Poland how the perhaps he has irrigated your activities in Japan
1:09:38and maybe if he has
1:09:39brought you to Eastern Europe, first question
1:09:44Second question
1:09:46concerning
1:09:48your current
1:09:51endeavor
1:09:53of producing shows in China
1:09:54now historically
1:09:57currently, obviously.
1:09:58can you please talk about for example
1:10:04the circumstances, now in China
1:10:07we understand that there has been a certain animosity
1:10:12toward Japanese, which is promoted maybe by
1:10:17the Chinese government or anyway
1:10:23kept alive
1:10:23how are you dealing with that?
1:10:25And what is your relationship and what the reception of your work in China?
1:10:30thank you
1:10:31(Suzuki speaks)
1:10:41So if you look at history the greatest theatre artists are ones found something
1:10:50(Suzuki speaks)
1:10:54Sometimes a founder appears suddenly in a culture
1:10:59(Suzuki speaks)
1:11:10So the great great artists
1:11:12aren't influenced by other artists
1:11:14they look very carefully at what another artist is
1:11:19doing and then steal it
1:11:21(laughter)
1:11:22(Suzuki speaks)
1:11:26If most Picasso's work
1:11:28somehow are stolen the idea is gone
1:11:32(Suzuki speaks)
1:11:35All of the great architecture functions that way
1:11:40they make references
1:11:41to the classic forms
1:11:42(Suzuki speaks)
1:11:48What makes them creative is the fact, they are
1:11:51they are the dialogue in them happens now
1:11:53in the time of need
1:11:56(Suzuki speaks)
1:12:02So for a long time, you know
1:12:04people like Robert Wilson, Kantor, and Peter Brook
1:12:09they were all invited to the same festivals, more or less at the same time
1:12:12for a period there
1:12:13(Suzuki speaks)
1:12:21So, as you can tell if you've seen it — my work's very different from theirs
1:12:26(Suzuki speaks)
1:12:27I mean, you can see points of commonality
1:12:30(Suzuki speaks)
1:12:32There's Rob
1:12:33Bob is also crazy about lighting
1:12:36(Suzuki speaks)
1:12:39You know
1:12:39He has a hand in space and he spends
1:12:42hours trying to light just the hand, for example
1:12:45It takes a whole day of rehearsal
1:12:46just to light that hand
1:12:48(Suzuki speaks)
1:12:52And the way the cyc is slowly modulating, that
1:12:55takes hours and days to plan the lighting design
1:13:00But that's Bob — I mean Robert Wilson's work
1:13:01(Suzuki speaks)
1:13:08And Kantor would get up on stage with the actors and yell at them and then start directing them
1:13:13and that's sort of one of the tricks he used.
1:13:16(Suzuki speaks)
1:13:18And, he imitates that during rehearsal
1:13:20he'll get up there
1:13:22(Suzuki speaks)
1:13:23Usually doesn't do that during a rehearsal
1:13:25(Suzuki speaks)
1:13:31would sit
1:13:33in the audience with a really strong flashlight
1:13:35and shine it
1:13:37(Suzuki speaks)
1:13:38And every time it's not going well in a performance
1:13:40He'd shine it, right at the actors
1:13:46And if it's going in a circle, it means pick up the pace
1:13:50(laughter)
1:13:51(Suzuki speaks)
1:13:54He'd be seated next to him at a show
1:13:56flashlight
1:13:57(Suzuki speaks)
1:14:10So, you know he was saying
1:14:12Suzuki says, "Could you cut out the flashlight, please. A little bit?"
1:14:15He's like, "Well if you ask me to
1:14:17me to maybe I will"
1:14:17(Suzuki speaks)
1:14:24But anyway, he really understands the feeling
1:14:27you get as a director
1:14:28wanting to shine the flashlight on the actor
1:14:30when they're messing it up
1:14:31(Suzuki speaks)
1:14:32So he started to think, "Well what can I
1:14:37use instead of flashlight that would be as effective?"
1:14:39(Suzuki speaks)
1:14:49So, you know during a live performance
1:14:52with an audience
1:14:52he didn't really want to pull out a flashlight
1:14:53so he started getting different kinds of coughs
1:14:56(laughter)
1:14:58So it would be like a code language to the coughs
1:15:00(laughter)
1:15:01(Suzuki speaks)
1:15:04So you're
1:15:05you're overdoing it a little for example
1:15:07(Suzuki speaks)
1:15:09So he would, you know
1:15:10sort of, maybe you know
1:15:12he'd
1:15:12he
1:15:13he'd maybe
1:15:13spit a little bit on the audience in front of him
1:15:15(laughter)
1:15:19(Suzuki speaks)
1:15:23So all of these
1:15:26Where there's a competition going on between these directors
1:15:29(Suzuki speaks)
1:15:34So
1:15:37(Suzuki speaks)
1:15:39So
1:15:39So
1:15:40So
1:15:41he's taking issue with this idea of being influenced by another
1:15:46great artist. It's more you're
1:15:48you're in competition all these great artists and
1:15:51you're going to observe their strategies and you're gonna take a useful
1:15:56to you
1:15:57(Suzuki speaks)
1:16:01So it's
1:16:02You can be influenced by other forms
1:16:04(Suzuki speaks)
1:16:06It's
1:16:06You can be influenced by
1:16:08by humans
1:16:09(Suzuki speaks)
1:16:12You can see an individual's quality of concentration
1:16:15and be influenced by that
1:16:17(Suzuki speaks)
1:16:22rostropovich
1:16:25(Suzuki speaks)
1:16:31He was working with Rostropovich — the cellist
1:16:34and he was in there watching the
1:16:36quality of concentration he had when he was playing
1:16:38for example
1:16:39(Suzuki speaks)
1:16:42And he tried
1:16:43breathing with Rostropovich as he was playing the cello
1:16:47(Suzuki speaks)
1:16:51And so in that way
1:16:53you can have a dialogue with other art forms
1:16:56and then use that in the creation of theatre
1:16:59(Suzuki speaks)
1:17:02And then there's the Japanese flute made out of bamboo
1:17:05called the shakuhatchi
1:17:07(Suzuki speaks)
1:17:15They have different ways of breathing
1:17:17ways that they create a resistance
1:17:19in their throat
1:17:21with the breath, so that different
1:17:22qualities of sound come out
1:17:24(Suzuki speaks)
1:17:29And if you have a hose
1:17:31a stream of water rushing out
1:17:33if you grab the edge of the hose so a very thin stream
1:17:37can come out very quickly
1:17:38(Suzuki speaks)
1:17:42So in the same way the air going through
1:17:43the windpipe when you're playing
1:17:45the shakuhatchi changes
1:17:47you squeeze the throat to make it very
1:17:49thin line of air
1:17:51the sound changes, for example
1:17:53as opposed to having it open
1:17:54(Suzuki speaks)
1:17:59And then he uses that on the stage
1:18:02what happens if you make a small hole
1:18:04versus open throat
1:18:06(Suzuki speaks)
1:18:17So studying the way these musicians play
1:18:19and the way they breathe
1:18:22then use that in the way you work with actors
1:18:24He doesn't know if that
1:18:26is good to call it influence necessarily
1:18:28he's studying something, re-purposing it
1:18:31(Suzuki speaks)
1:18:34Maybe you're familiar with the author
1:18:36Yukio Mishima
1:18:37(Suzuki speaks)
1:18:39He's — he writes many
1:18:42(Suzuki speaks)
1:18:44and what he does is he writes three pages and the right way he throws them away
1:18:49(Suzuki speaks)
1:18:51there's a
1:18:52there's another author
1:18:53Kenzaburō Ōe
1:18:55right
1:18:56(Suzuki speaks)
1:19:01He writes about 700 pages stream of consciousness
1:19:04right
1:19:04(Suzuki speaks)
1:19:06And then he cuts about a third of it
1:19:11(Suzuki speaks)
1:19:13And so he sees the way these writes work for example
1:19:15their process
1:19:17(Suzuki speaks)
1:19:19re-purposes it
1:19:21(Suzuki speaks)
1:19:23So for example when he was working on
1:19:26The Lower Depths, Gorky's play
1:19:28(Suzuki speaks)
1:19:37And to use that same
1:19:38(Suzuki speaks)
1:19:40So from Kenzaburō Ōe
1:19:42he took that same strategy
1:19:43and used it when he directed Gorky's The Lower Depths
1:19:45he had the actors do the whole thing
1:19:47and then meditated on that and decided what he didn't need
1:19:51(Suzuki speaks)
1:20:05So looking
1:20:07(Suzuki speaks)
1:20:08So looking at different people's qualities of concentration
1:20:11people's — you know— different human beings' passions
1:20:15and the way a
1:20:16a politician get passionate in a speech
1:20:19looking at those qualities and then
1:20:21figuring out how to re-purpose them in creation of theatre.
1:20:26Of course he has tastes
1:20:28you know scripts that he likes and he doesn't like
1:20:30but it's not that he's necessarily influenced
1:20:33by
1:20:33(Suzuki speaks)
1:20:43And one of the — again
1:20:44it's about processes
1:20:46he steals from other people's process
1:20:48Yukio Mishima every day always
1:20:51three hours
1:20:52write write
1:20:53(Suzuki speaks)
1:20:56and even if he doesn't write and he's just sitting there thinking, right
1:20:58that kind of discipline
1:20:59artistic discipline toward your work
1:21:02(Suzuki speaks)
1:21:09And so what he does if an actor's really not
1:21:12going the right direction
1:21:14he'll sit with them
1:21:15for three hours
1:21:17(Suzuki speaks)
1:21:19This is when it's not going well
1:21:22sit with them and work
1:21:24work
1:21:26(Suzuki speaks)
1:21:38So what you could say is what he's really borrowing
1:21:41or is influenced by
1:21:43is attitudes for the work
1:21:45He looks at different professionals in the world and sees
1:21:49their process and he's like, "Oh I like
1:21:51that because it reinforces an idea I have
1:21:54about the way of working"
1:21:56(Suzuki speaks)
1:22:03So now to talk about China
1:22:05of course China has a very long tradition
1:22:08(Suzuki speaks)
1:22:21But really when you talk about China
1:22:24we're talking about forty years now
1:22:27(Suzuki speaks)
1:22:29when before the current era you had a different dynasty
1:22:32you had a completely different set of values.
1:22:35(Suzuki speaks)
1:22:37In China when a dynasty changes
1:22:39the whole social makeup of the whole nation shifts
1:22:44(Suzuki speaks)
1:22:46In that way it's different from Japan
1:22:48(Suzuki speaks)
1:22:58But if you look in
1:23:00in the ancient China
1:23:01in the times for example when
1:23:03the Great Wall was built
1:23:05there's points of commonality
1:23:07and great ideas towards civilization that you can find
1:23:09also when you also look at at the Greeks
1:23:11(Suzuki speaks)
1:23:13That
1:23:13that legacy is in China
1:23:16(Suzuki speaks)
1:23:19but then you have the cultural revolution
1:23:22(Suzuki speaks)
1:23:23And everything that was thought of as Chinese
1:23:26tradition was fundamentally destroyed
1:23:31(Suzuki speaks)
1:23:36And now we have a time when there's an incredible economic
1:23:41sort of upward
1:23:42upward movement
1:23:43and there's also a military
1:23:45that's increasing — it's expanding
1:23:46(Suzuki speaks)
1:23:51And they have become a global player
1:23:53(Suzuki speaks)
1:23:58So when you become a global player
1:24:01national identity becomes a very important issue
1:24:05(Suzuki speaks)
1:24:14So just being a rich country
1:24:17and just being powerful in the military sense
1:24:20it's enough to create an identity
1:24:22(Suzuki speaks)
1:24:41So for example in
1:24:44we have in Europe
1:24:47a sense of maintaining
1:24:50a kind of continuity with culture
1:24:52I mean a constant, you know
1:24:54re-examining and
1:24:56keeping culture alive
1:24:58and vibrant
1:24:59every day
1:25:01That's lasted a long time
1:25:03even a pair of shoes you're wearing, it's very old
1:25:06been around for centuries
1:25:07you keep polishing you keep using it
1:25:10it new ways
1:25:13(Suzuki speaks)
1:25:15So if you look at an old pair of shoes you can see
1:25:18sort of where they've walked
1:25:20what parts are worn out, right
1:25:21(Suzuki speaks)
1:25:24So if you look at a European shoe
1:25:27there's you know parts that are warn based on the
1:25:30the history
1:25:31(Suzuki speaks)
1:25:34there's still a little bit of polish left
1:25:37(Suzuki speaks)
1:25:40But right now in China there's no shoe
1:25:44(Suzuki speaks)
1:25:47They have to make a shoe
1:25:49(Suzuki speaks)
1:25:52That there's over
1:25:53there's 1.3 billion people
1:25:55(Suzuki speaks)
1:25:56and the
1:25:59the current form of government is state capitalism
1:26:01(Suzuki speaks)
1:26:06and because it's state capitalism it can very radially
1:26:09shift on the
1:26:10you know
1:26:10from one day to the next
1:26:13(Suzuki speaks)
1:26:36So every year in Toga we have
1:26:42I mean sorry
1:26:43every other year in Beijng
1:26:44we have now from all over the country
1:26:47different people coming together
1:26:50to study his method
1:26:52(Suzuki speaks)
1:27:02And there's a
1:27:05sort of a Chinese version of Tom Hewitt
1:27:07that
1:27:08that he's encountered
1:27:10and he's really focusing his attention on him now to be the next protagonist in his
1:27:14Chinese
1:27:16(Suzuki speaks)
1:27:20And it feels like
1:27:21you know
1:27:22all the work he's doing in China
1:27:25to build something
1:27:26it's actually having an effect
1:27:27on this national effort to create a shoe
1:27:31(Suzuki speaks)
1:27:38So there's you know obviously the
1:27:40the Communist Party
1:27:41there's a million and millions of people in the party
1:27:44officially. Sort of an official status
1:27:47(Suzuki speaks)
1:27:50And those Party members have a pretty firm grip
1:27:54on everything that's going on
1:27:58there's no election, right — like in the United States
1:28:02(Suzuki speaks)
1:28:03And so we have a situation which is
1:28:05if you look at the history of the world is new
1:28:08You have a
1:28:09a basically a one party system
1:28:11(Suzuki speaks)
1:28:13and that's focused on capitalism
1:28:15(Suzuki speaks)
1:28:17and they're trying very hard to
1:28:18to just focus on growth growth growth and identity
1:28:20(Suzuki speaks)
1:28:24Within the American capitalist system
1:28:27the power of the people
1:28:29is very important the difference of opinion
1:28:34(Suzuki speaks)
1:28:36the
1:28:37the dialogue is an important part
1:28:38of our way we define ourselves
1:28:41whereas there it's the party line.
1:28:43(Suzuki speaks)
1:28:49So to have a relationship with
1:28:51US capitalism
1:28:52have a relationship with "state capitalism in China"
1:28:55it's, it's interesting to see how these things
1:28:58are playing out in a different way.
1:29:00Anne: Believe it or not
1:29:02that was the Q&A section
1:29:05(laughter)
1:29:08We're going
1:29:09Before ending this I want to first of all thank
1:29:12Suzuki-san and his entire company for coming all the way to Saratoga
1:29:16(applause)
1:29:26Suzuki-san has something else to add
1:29:27(Suzuki speaks)
1:29:54So the fact that 25 years ago
1:29:56Mr. Suzuki came and built this company and that has lasted
1:30:00to today, you think this is now an important part
1:30:05of your United States
1:30:08And it really is important that it continues — a place where people from all of the world
1:30:13to gather
1:30:14(Suzuki speaks)
1:30:29So in this time in the world
1:30:31when there's so much upheaval
1:30:34the fact that all you participants and people
1:30:36that support the SITI Company have come and share this space with us
1:30:40he's very grateful for your time
1:30:44(applause)
1:31:17I give you, the person that actually dreamed this entire thing up
1:31:21Ellen Lauren
1:31:22Ellen: Thank you
1:31:24(cheers and applause)
1:31:28So many of you are here
1:31:33ending this unique, once-in-a-lifetime
1:31:38because you can only do it the first time once
1:31:41(laughter)
1:31:43and I wanted to take a moment to acknowledge that and with all my heart
1:31:50on behalf of all my company members thank you for making this pilgrimage
1:31:55making is possible.
1:31:58This event was powered by you and made
1:32:02extraordinary by you and I think we have our marching orders here to go back to
1:32:09our communities as Barney said drop that line and let those waves span out as far
1:32:16as they can. Go home and hope encouragement the SITI Company was
1:32:21always old when we got tired and needed to refresh that Toga was there for us
1:32:28and it's our charge now in turn to say to you when you get tired and you need
1:32:33refreshment, you need a spiritual boost, you need to work hard with your body, your mind,
1:32:40and your spirit.
1:32:41That the SITI Company will do everything we can
1:32:43to provide you with a sanctuary and refuge for that
1:32:47stay close to that, to us
1:32:50to one another and I officially
1:32:53there will be, oh yes well, he said he will sign books
1:32:58there's a lot of you that probably want that to happen
1:33:02so if you signed so many and then
1:33:06gets very tired he does have a long day of rehearsal
1:33:09and performance so please understand
1:33:12But he will be out in the lobby, I hope
1:33:14He promised
1:33:18And as you
1:33:19can see — a pretty extraordinary mind who has reverberated and as we had hoped
1:33:29transformed us all
1:33:32So thank you
1:33:33This is officially coming to close.
1:33:35(applause)

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