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SUPERCUT: Ben Shapiro's BEST Arguments Against Abortion — Transcript

by Ben Shapiro · 8,830 words · 1,313 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00as a woman and somebody going into the
0:02healthcare field i personally don't it's
0:04on your opinion on abortion um i
0:06personally don't think that like i could
0:08have an abortion just because morally i
0:11feel like for myself it wouldn't be the
0:12right choice um but how do you defend
0:15your opinion as a white well-off
0:17religious man
0:19um how do you defend your ha like
0:22telling a woman what she can do with it
0:24because evil things are still evil even
0:26if i'm a white well-off religious man
0:28and good things are so good even if i'm
0:29a white fellow
0:32so
0:34i mean this is
0:36this is this is one of these this is one
0:38of these identity politics points that i
0:39really uh i'm gonna i don't mean to come
0:41down harshly on you i don't uh but it is
0:43a point that i really have serious moral
0:45qualms with i think it's quite quite
0:47terrible the reason being that the
0:48people who were fighting against
0:51enslavement of black people were a bunch
0:53of well-off white men for the most part
0:55right and those people were saying this
0:56is a moral sin this is a moral blot they
0:59weren't living in the south they didn't
1:00own plantations they didn't live the
1:01lives of the plantation owners they said
1:03this is evil and we are here to stop it
1:05right when you see something that you
1:07think is morally wrong happening
1:08especially when you're talking about the
1:09taking of a human life like listen i
1:11think that i think that you shouldn't go
1:12around randomly killing homeless people
1:14i just have this view i'm not a homeless
1:15person most of the people who randomly
1:17kill homeless people are probably not of
1:18my economic strata my religious view or
1:20my i don't know whether my skin color or
1:22not i have no idea what the what the
1:23actual sociological breakdown of
1:25homeless killer serial murderers but but
1:28i would suggest that my identity has
1:30nothing to do with what is right or
1:31wrong and this is what western
1:32civilization used to be about western
1:34civilization used to be about the idea
1:36that yes i'm not a woman in the
1:37healthcare field but you and i can have
1:39a conversation about what's right and
1:40wrong because this is the nature of
1:42human reason the nature of human reason
1:43the nature of right and wrong is that
1:45you and i can talk about what's right
1:46and wrong and that i don't retreat into
1:48my identity if we can all retreat into
1:50our identity and our morality is now
1:51centered around that identity morality
1:53doesn't exist at all we break down into
1:55a society of fragmented atoms where i
1:57can't even say like you're torturing a
1:58puppy in your backyard i have nothing to
1:59say about that i'm not a white woman
2:00who's in the healthcare field i'm not
2:02going to do that i don't i don't i i
2:04refuse to surrender the idea that i can
2:06have a moral stance on issues that are
2:08of concern to society and of concern to
2:10the to the well-being of the united
2:11states simply because of the color of my
2:13skin or the nature of my genitalia and
2:16honestly i believe any of you that feels
2:17differently is sexist racist and bigoted
2:20welcome back this is the ben shapiro
2:21show we're taking your calls at eight
2:22five five two three six thirty two
2:24twenty eight that's eight five five two
2:25three six thirty two twenty eight danny
2:27in new jersey you're on the bench i'll
2:29go for it danny
2:30hey ben how are you doing well go for it
2:32sir
2:34good um do you mind if i ask another
2:35abortion question go for it all you men
2:38all right um if a parent wants to abort
2:40their child shouldn't they have the
2:41right to so allow me to elaborate if if
2:44it is born there's a possibility that
2:45the child won't be nurtured loved or
2:47treated with the proper care that a
2:49parent who desires their child would now
2:51every child especially if they're
2:52american deserves
2:54has the right to life liberty and
2:55pursuit of happiness but a child that is
2:57neglected won't truly inherit these
2:58rights i'm not i'm not sure if those in
3:00the left make this argument but it's a
3:02question that one of my friends posed
3:03and i didn't really know how to respond
3:04to it but i wanted to hear what you had
3:05to say yeah i mean the basic argument is
3:07not a very good one the reason that it's
3:08not a very good one is because it i'm a
3:10parent okay being a parent is a pain in
3:12the ass i mean i'll be honest with you
3:13like it can be great but it's a giant
3:15pain in the ass and very often you're
3:16unhappy with your children very often
3:18you are you feel incapable of of
3:20ensuring that your children are getting
3:22the best possible upbringing this is
3:23what it's called being a parent now i
3:25happen to be in a particularly enviable
3:27situation right i have the ability for
3:28my wife to stay at home i have a support
3:30system we have a nanny right we have all
3:32sorts of resources that are available
3:34i'm home a lot we have a lot of
3:35resources available in my kit now
3:36imagine that you are a single mom and
3:38you are impoverished you're living on
3:39food stamps and you're living below the
3:41poverty line and let's imagine not that
3:42you're pregnant with a child let's
3:44imagine that you had the kid and the kid
3:45is a year and a half old right you are
3:47in the exact same position as the woman
3:48who is pregnant except now the kid has
3:50been born why shouldn't you be able to
3:51kill the kid i mean because by the
3:53argument the argument is that you're not
3:55going to be able to raise the kid in the
3:56in the circumstances proper to the child
3:59guaranteeing them the best possible
4:00opportunity so why is the child's right
4:03to life different now that the kid is
4:04born then before the kid was born
4:06because the argument that's being made
4:07is not about stage of development and
4:09the argument that's not being made
4:11is about bodily autonomy or anything the
4:13argument is about the the circum the
4:15living circumstances of the child so if
4:17the argument is living circumstances or
4:19future living circumstances of the child
4:20are insufficient to the needs of the
4:22child therefore you can kill the child
4:23that argument applies equally to kids
4:25who are born and kids who are unborn
4:26which leads to the green lighting of
4:28infanticide based on circumstance again
4:30the key issue with abortion is not the
4:32circumstances in which kids grow up
4:33because there are literally billions of
4:35kids who are growing up around the
4:36planet right now in rather unenviable
4:38circumstances and killing them would be
4:40pure murder the the real question about
4:42abortion is whether this is a kid or is
4:44not a kid and unless your friends are
4:45willing to at least acknowledge that
4:48that is the question then this is a
4:49secondary question the living conditions
4:51of the kid that doesn't mean we
4:52shouldn't do everything we can to make
4:53those living conditions better it
4:54doesn't mean that if you have a kid you
4:56can't take care of it that you shouldn't
4:57give up the kid for adoption there's a
4:58good argument you should but the the the
5:01tying of social condition to abortion is
5:04a particularly egregious moral error all
5:06right danny really appreciate the call
5:08all righty roger in colorado you're on
5:09the bench hero should go for it roger
5:11hey ben uh my question was uh who would
5:14you elect as president from the star
5:16wars universe and why ray being the
5:18clear choice because she is a woman and
5:20therefore she is great at everything and
5:22perfect without any training or prior
5:24knowledge but i just wanted to get what
5:26your option would be well i mean the the
5:28president who would be the best
5:29presumably would be the one who
5:30restricts who respects the boundaries of
5:33the constitutional order the problem is
5:35in the star wars universe nobody really
5:36respects the boundaries of the
5:37constitutional order right i mean
5:40honestly okay you're ready for the most
5:41unpopular answer of all time who'd be
5:42the best president of the of the
5:44republic you ready here we go jar jar
5:46binks why utterly incompetent incapable
5:48of putting together a consensus can't do
5:50anything has to leave everybody alone
5:53on a non-ridiculous level count dooku
5:55makes a pretty solid argument in favor
5:57of of pushing back against the
5:59monopolistic trade federation and in
6:01favor of greater local sovereignty so i
6:03think that there is a case for count
6:04dooku the separatists don't have a
6:06horrible case against the republic is
6:07the truth because it's not like they are
6:08pushing for over tyranny they're pushing
6:10against the the republic's inability to
6:13operate and also their willingness to
6:14cram down apparently trade law on on
6:17local star systems so
6:19there is your ridiculously nerdy answer
6:21to a ridiculous scenery question roger i
6:23appreciate the call art and hayward
6:24california you're on you're on bench
6:25peer shall go for it art
6:28uh hi ben uh big fan of the show
6:31um i'm a new subscriber as well
6:34uh my question is about home the
6:36homeless crisis yes i live in the bay
6:39area and i work in oakland and san
6:41francisco so i see it every day and
6:44i just wanted to know how you would
6:46start to tackle the problem and uh is it
6:48even possible with the liberals running
6:50pretty much all of northern california
6:52well i mean the only way that you are
6:54possibly going to be able to actually
6:57solve homelessness is with both carrot
6:58and sticks so what that means is that
7:00you have to put people in mandatory drug
7:02dry out you have to ensure that you have
7:04the capacity to
7:05to
7:06uh forcibly uh forcibly place people in
7:09mental health contingency situations
7:11where they can't take care of themselves
7:13to make sure they take their drugs and
7:14then you have to criminalize
7:16loitering you have to criminalize
7:17trespass i mean you cannot have people
7:18pooping on the streets you have to
7:20arrest them and you have to give them a
7:21choice either you go to a drug dry out
7:23facility and do what you need to do to
7:24get clean or go to a mental health
7:26facility and you do what you need to do
7:27in order to not be living with severe
7:29schizophrenia and push back against that
7:32or you can go to jail and those are the
7:34those are the city there is no choice
7:35where you get to sit on the street and
7:37and loiter and spread disease and poop
7:40on the street and and clutter up the
7:42street with garbage these are not that
7:44is not an effective choice you're not
7:45allowed to do that the problem you know
7:47is not one the media like to make out
7:48the problem of homelessness is a problem
7:50of economic mouth misfortune and that
7:53the vast majority of homeless people
7:54just can't afford rent in san francisco
7:56it's not true the problem is not rent
7:58the problem is
7:59in the main drug problems mental illness
8:02problems and and cities that have
8:03decided not to criminalize the people
8:05who can
8:06you know create an upward path for
8:08themselves and make sure that they can
8:10actually get out of living on the
8:12streets which of course is not
8:13compassionate to people in the first
8:14place so
8:15how do you say that some people don't
8:17have real privilege when you basically
8:19just said that trans people aren't valid
8:21they're not a thing they're just girls
8:22pretending to be boys or voices for any
8:24girls
8:30no gender is not disconnected from sex
8:32so it's not completely disconnected but
8:34it's still a cultural thing it's still
8:35from society okay
8:37no it is not in the mind okay you're not
8:40a man if you think you're a man and i
8:41didn't say pretending or if i did i
8:43shouldn't have said pretending let me
8:44amend it
8:45okay i said a boy who thinks he's a girl
8:47that's the usual phraseology i use not
8:49playing i usually say a boy who thinks
8:50he's a girl or girl who thinks he's a
8:51boy which is technically what we're
8:52talking about here as far as the actual
8:55psychological issues
8:56at play it used to be called gender
8:59dysphoria or gender identity disorder
9:00now they call gender dysphoria the idea
9:03that that sex or gender are malleable
9:07is not true okay and i'm not denying
9:10your humanity if you're a transgender
9:11person i am saying that you are not the
9:14sex to which you claim to be you're
9:16still a human being and you're a human
9:17being with an issue that i'm you know i
9:19wish you godspeed in in dealing with in
9:21whatever way you see fit but if you are
9:23going to dictate to me that i am
9:25supposed to pretend i'm supposed to
9:26pretend that men are women and women are
9:28men
9:29no my answer is no i'm not going to i'm
9:31not going to modify basic biology
9:34because it threatens your subjective
9:36sense of what you are
9:38okay but you're still saying these kids
9:40should not be accepted because they
9:41don't really fit into either place they
9:43can't just like i'm saying that the boy
9:44scouts have a standard you must be a
9:46biological boy to be a boy scout you
9:48have to be a boy to be a boy scout
9:50though
9:51in the name boy scouts
9:57because because it because this is
9:59because this is a a very okay
10:02because for all of human history boy
10:04meant boy and girl meant girl boy did
10:06not mean girl
10:10and if i call you a moose are you
10:11suddenly a moose okay if i redefine our
10:13terms
10:15no it's a yes that's right men and women
10:16are a completely different thing this is
10:18true have you ever met a man or a woman
10:20they're completely different
10:22it's not a thing it's genders it's not
10:25saying okay why is that i don't
10:26understand why okay let me ask you this
10:28hell okay i won't ask you how old i will
10:30ask you how old you are okay because
10:31you're young enough that it's probably
10:32not insulting to ask you so i'm 22 so
10:34i'm probably naive right no why aren't
10:36you 60
10:40why aren't you 60
10:47why can't you identify as 60 why what
10:49what is the problem with you identifying
10:51as 60.
10:54you're right age is significantly less
10:55important than gender
10:58you can't magically change your gender
11:00you can't magically change your sex you
11:02can't magically change your age you can
11:05still deeply change it people recognize
11:07you can't legally change your age by the
11:08way
11:09obviously you can change your name you
11:10can change your sex you can change your
11:12ideas just because you can do things
11:13legally doesn't mean that they are
11:14correct biologically could do lots of
11:16things in the past that were incorrect
11:18biologically and correct legally for a
11:19long period of time in the united states
11:21sterilization of the mentally ill took
11:23place that didn't make it okay skinner
11:24versus oklahoma justice oliver wendell
11:26holmes wrote the decision
11:29[Applause]
11:34it's not a matter of open mind and
11:35accepting i want them to get treatment
11:36that they see fit but that's not
11:37involving the the idea behind the
11:39transgender movement as a civil rights
11:41movement is the idea that all of their
11:43problems would just go away if i would
11:45pretend that they were the sex to which
11:46they claim
11:48the
11:49to which they claim membership that's
11:50nonsense
11:51the transgender suicide rate is 40
11:54it is 40 percent and according to
11:57according to the anderson school ucla it
11:59makes no difference there's a study that
12:00came out last year it makes no
12:02difference
12:03virtually no different statistically
12:04speaking as to whether people recognize
12:06you as a transgender person or not which
12:08suggests there's a very high comorbidity
12:10between transgenderism whatever that
12:12mental state may be and suicidality that
12:15has nothing to do with how society
12:16treats you
12:19no i don't think that i do not think
12:21that the discrepancy i do not think the
12:22discrepancy first of all i'm against
12:24bullying of any sort okay the idea that
12:26somebody would beat somebody up is
12:27terrible okay as somebody who's
12:28viciously bullied in high school i'm not
12:30a fan of bullying but the idea that the
12:32the normal suicide rate across the
12:34united states is four percent the
12:35suicide rate in the transgender
12:36community is 40
12:38the idea that 36 percent more
12:40transgender people are committing
12:41suicide because people are mean to them
12:43is ridiculous
12:45it's not true and it's not backed by any
12:47science that anyone can cite it is pure
12:49conjecture in fact it's not even true
12:51that bullying causes suicide according
12:53to a lot of studies
12:54the for example in the black community
12:57where the idea is supposedly that
12:59america's a racist society blacks are
13:00bullied a lot okay in the black
13:01community black men have significantly
13:03lower suicide rates than in the white
13:04community
13:06in fact in third world countries the
13:07suicide rate is significantly lower than
13:09in first world countries suicide
13:11actually seems to be a privilege of the
13:12upper classes if you actually look at it
13:14from a financial perspective so the idea
13:16that suicidality is directly a result of
13:19people like me saying no men are not
13:21women and women are not men
13:23it it's it's it's not true it's also do
13:25you think it doesn't impact their
13:26identity at all or their depression or
13:28how they feel about themselves i think
13:29the idea that you're going to sacrifice
13:30the entire society's proper definition
13:33of sex because you think that there is a
13:36in legal terms somebody with an eggshell
13:37skull meaning that somebody who has a
13:39pre-existing condition that makes them
13:41more susceptible to criticism that that
13:43is not a way to run a society you can't
13:45sacrifice truth because some people are
13:48going to actually suffer because of the
13:49truth plus there's no evidence
13:51whatsoever that the suicide rate would
13:53go down in the transgender community in
13:54any market way if people just started
13:56pretending that men were women and women
13:57were men we're trying that experiment
13:59now we'll find out whether it works so
14:00far no evidence have you talked to a
14:02group of trans people instead of this
14:04group of like white people i'm more than
14:06happy to talk to a group of any people
14:08who will have me but usually they
14:09protest me
14:13okay
14:14question thing um
14:15your last
14:17so why do you think it's not about
14:18people in women's bodies and just about
14:20the separate life like after the baby is
14:22born how come people don't care about
14:24them they don't care where to end up in
14:25foster care they don't care about the
14:27mother being poor okay i do care about
14:28the mother being poor i do care about
14:30foster care okay why don't you advocate
14:31for that though
14:33that is supposed to prevent abortions
14:35because well planned parenthood doesn't
14:36prevent abortions they perform hundreds
14:38of thousands of abortions a year they
14:39perform 300 000 abortions a year they're
14:41leading abortions in the united states
14:43for that though that they perform 300
14:46000 abortions a year from planned
14:47parenthood
14:48that's my evidence
14:50they don't dispute that no one disputes
14:52that
14:54i'm not anti-birth control
14:56birth control is extraordinarily cheap
14:58that provides affordable birth control
15:01okay they're not the only people in
15:02america who provide affordable birth
15:03control you can go get a pack of condoms
15:04down at the local cbs for 12 bucks
15:07[Applause]
15:10yes and it's true that most forms of
15:11birth control are also extraordinarily
15:13cheap on an annualized basis unless you
15:15have a severe problem
15:17the most birth control is very cheap and
15:19readily available and i'm not against
15:21people going and getting that from
15:22planned parenthood as you may have
15:23noticed i'm mostly against abortion if
15:25you want to go to planned parenthood and
15:26get a contraceptive go for it i don't
15:29care i do care when you start killing
15:30babies this is a problem for me
15:34situations okay so this is okay so
15:36here's the question
15:38i mean this is a long conversation i'm
15:39enjoying it actually which is why i'm
15:40allowing you to stay but
15:42but it's but the question of rape and
15:45incest first of all important to know
15:46rape and incest are not only a vast
15:48minority of abortion cases they're an
15:51extraordinarily low percentage of
15:52abortion cases so if we can first
15:54stipulate that all the other abortions
15:56are bad then we can talk about that
15:57other one can we do that
15:59are all the other abortions bad are
16:00those ones okay and you're just using
16:01this as an excuse to make the other ones
16:03okay you're all okay
16:05ah good someone who's honest so
16:08who's the honest fellow
16:10who's okay yay honest people good i like
16:12the honesty okay so all abortions are
16:14okay so
16:15does the so the so oh a sign that i
16:18can't read because it has lots of words
16:19on it okay so
16:22i have one question for you and one
16:24question only on abortion does the
16:26vagina the the vaginal canal magically
16:28confer personhood
16:31answer does the vagina magically confer
16:33personhood yeah raised hands are okay
16:35you sir you know the first breath does
16:38the first breath confers personhood okay
16:40so if the baby is in the womb and is
16:43exactly the same size and has not yet
16:45breathed and you take a knife and you
16:46stab the baby in the head a fully formed
16:48nine nine-month-old baby it is not a
16:50human the only thing that makes it a
16:51human is when it takes a breath
16:53it has to independently breathe i mean
16:55i'm gonna be honest i'm gonna stick to
16:56it yeah because i'm also pro-capital
16:59punishment and pro-selective
17:01suicide so i'm gonna stick with it
17:03selective suicide
17:05yeah i i assume you i assume you mean
17:06elective suicide i mean all right
17:09i'm not going to come make someone
17:11commit suicide
17:12that's good because that wouldn't be
17:13suicide that'd be homicide uh so
17:16so uh that that by the way i'm for
17:19capital punishment too because people
17:20who kill people should be killed but
17:22babies who have not killed people should
17:23not this is my basic position on
17:25abortion so let me just so but i'll get
17:27your answer because you're the one who
17:28asked the question
17:29are you willing to stipulate that all
17:30the other abortions are bad
17:32just rape and incest bother you
17:34i mean no i believe a woman
17:36got it so it's an excuse right so it's
17:38an excuse that we can say that so that
17:39we can we can take the marginal case and
17:41then say that the marginal case applies
17:42to all cases okay that's that's again
17:45faulty thinking but if you want me to
17:47answer specifically on rape and incest
17:49here's my basic answer rapists should be
17:51castrated or killed you shouldn't kill
17:52babies end of story but are they ever
17:54castrated most rapes don't even get
17:56convicted
17:57i agree and that's usually the left side
17:59of the aisle because left side wants to
18:00let them out after five years in prison
18:02i want them castrated or killed
18:04i'm telling you what my belief is my
18:06belief is not public policy at the
18:08moment but i think would you agree with
18:10me on that one can we at least get a
18:11little agreement to finish this
18:11particular parlay okay you should rapist
18:14be castrated or killed well yes okay
18:17good yeah okay we agree nice
18:19welcome back this is the ben shapiro
18:21show we are taking your calls right here
18:23on the ben shapiro show so now would be
18:26a great time for you to call in at
18:41that they 855-236-3228 abortion like
18:42what williams did at the golden globes
18:44however because i am i come from a
18:47medical background i'm a dental student
18:49right now i think that uh there should
18:52be a
18:53cut-off date at which the uh i wish the
18:56fetus becomes a viable fetus where if it
18:58were to be pre-term it would uh be able
19:01to survive
19:02um i think that should be and that's a
19:04good compromise between the left and the
19:06right um i just wanted to know your
19:08thoughts about that it's hard to make a
19:10compromise on the basis of viability
19:11simply because viability is such a vague
19:13standard first of all it's never been
19:15completely defined what viability
19:16constitutes so some people will say
19:18viability outside the womb without mom's
19:20help well what about the help of
19:22machines what if we develop artificial
19:24wounds what about all the people i mean
19:25frankly a baby outside the womb without
19:27mom's help will die also right i mean if
19:29you've ever had a young child you know
19:30that children without any care will
19:32quickly plot if you don't take care of
19:34them viability is a very difficult moral
19:36standard to uphold also scientifically
19:38it's difficult to uphold it also it's
19:39difficult to explain why exactly
19:41viability should be the standard for
19:42whether or not a human life is valuable
19:44or not specifically in a case when
19:47waiting for two weeks makes the child
19:48viable for example so the example that
19:51i've used is there there are a lot of
19:52elderly people who are simply not viable
19:54right there they're on machines they are
19:56being kept alive by those machines
19:59could you remove those people from
20:00machines if two weeks from now they're
20:01going to recover the answer would be no
20:04right i mean it doesn't it doesn't make
20:05their life worth any less the fact that
20:07they are non-viable at this point
20:10beyond that you know as far as how this
20:12issue should be approached the issue
20:13should be approached in my view uh from
20:15politically speaking not morally
20:17speaking but politically speaking
20:18pro-life people should approach this
20:19issue by saying to democrats okay i
20:21understand you don't agree that there
20:22should be a ban on abortion at week one
20:24but do you agree that there should be a
20:26ban on abortion by week 16 how about
20:28week 14 how about week 12 how about week
20:3010 because the fact is that as you start
20:32to draw the line closer and closer to
20:34point of conception you're saving more
20:36and more lives and it's easier to find
20:38wiggle room for folks on the left in
20:40this without having to force them to
20:42confront their base assumptions when you
20:43are not starting with the argument from
20:45conception when you start from the
20:47argument that is that is much easier to
20:48make like take a look at this picture of
20:50an ultrasound that looks just like a
20:52baby again i think viability is is a
20:54weak argument generally but you know
20:57anything that prevents future abortions
20:59i'm in favor of so even incremental
21:00legislation i'd be in favor of ellen
21:04thank you well i really appreciate the
21:06call jeremy in fort worth texas you're
21:07on the bench shapiro show go for it
21:08jeremy
21:10hi ben i just want to say i'm a big fan
21:13of your politics i think you do a great
21:14job
21:15my question is a little bit more
21:16philosophical um i've seen your
21:18discussions with people like sam harris
21:20in the past you've talked about morality
21:22free will stuff like that i've always
21:24found them really fascinating but um
21:26always they always seem to be cut so
21:27short
21:28i've heard you defend things like the
21:30existence of free will by saying like
21:32concepts like responsibility don't make
21:34sense unless free will exists uh my
21:37question for you is like why do you
21:38think this is the case why can't we be
21:40held responsible for our actions if free
21:43will doesn't exist so i think the answer
21:45jeremy is inherent in this in the
21:46question he just asked you said how can
21:48we be held to respond why can't we be
21:49held responsible for our actions if free
21:52will doesn't exist and the answer in my
21:53view is that they're not our actions if
21:55free will doesn't exist like what makes
21:56an action yours the fact that that you
21:59were the body that that made the action
22:01happen technically speaking or the fact
22:03that you actually made the decision that
22:05made the action happen so the the sort
22:07of baroque spinoza the philosopher uh
22:09the the his view of the universe is that
22:11free will does not exist that we are
22:12effectively stones that have been thrown
22:14but have the misimpression that we are
22:15moving under under the force of our own
22:17will the problem is that once it is
22:19society's fault or once it is the
22:21environment's fault or once it is
22:22genetics fault everything that you do
22:24why should you be punished on a moral
22:26level for action now you can make a
22:29social engineering argument that what is
22:31best for society is for people who have
22:34a certain biological predisposition
22:36toward certain criminal activity to be
22:37put in jail that's not a responsibility
22:39argument that's a social shaping message
22:41but the question of moral responsibility
22:43is why would you be held morally
22:45responsible for an action that is not
22:46your fault after all when somebody is
22:47criminally insane when they don't know
22:49the difference between right and wrong
22:50we don't hold them criminally
22:51accountable in the same way as somebody
22:52who premeditated a murder if you are a
22:54person who is
22:56who is pushed into another person and
22:58that person flies in front of a train
23:00right you're in a train platform
23:02somebody pushes you you knock a guy in
23:03front of a train we're not going to hold
23:05you responsible for murder the same way
23:06we would if you're the person who pushed
23:07the person in front of the train so the
23:09question of moral responsibility lies in
23:11your ability to act otherwise there are
23:13a bunch of different takes on free will
23:15the only two i think that make any sense
23:16are the fully deterministic position
23:17which is the position sam harris takes
23:19and the fully free will position which
23:21is the position that i take even the
23:22fully free will position does not ignore
23:24the impact of environments and genetics
23:25it says that in limited circumstances
23:28you have the ability to choose otherwise
23:30then there are people who articulate
23:31what's called the compatibilist position
23:32which is the idea that well your actions
23:34are predetermined so long as there is
23:36nothing that is actively preventing you
23:39from doing a thing if you do it you have
23:40responsibility i've never found that
23:42completely compelling because again do
23:44you hold animals responsible for their
23:46own actions on a moral level they don't
23:48have something has to distinguish human
23:49beings from animals you know the
23:51traditional philosophers say that that
23:52is the ability of human beings to reason
23:54and use their will it's it's difficult
23:55to make the argument why humans are
23:57different from cows other than in sort
23:58of complexity of neural firing uh if
24:00you're a full determinist jeremy
24:04see i see see the only reason why i ask
24:06is
24:07because i think there is a way like so
24:09you mentioned the
24:10compatibilist notion i think there is a
24:12like definitions of free will and
24:14responsibility that do sort of make
24:16sense of this for instance
24:19if you think of responsibility as just
24:22holding people accountable for their
24:23actions for the sake of
24:25changing their future behavior
24:28then
24:29that's perfectly consistent with you
24:31know saying well we don't have free will
24:32right right
24:34otherwise you can make it that's right
24:35you can make a utilitarian argument
24:37along those lines the problem is that
24:38i'm not sure that utilitarian arguments
24:40take you all that far because the truth
24:42is that on a utilitarian level if you
24:43want to hold people accountable for
24:44their actions in a way that prevents
24:46them from committing future bad actions
24:47the easiest way to do that would be to
24:48kill shoplifters right
24:50and no one is in favor of that on a on a
24:53practical level because obviously we
24:54believe that human beings have an
24:56inherent value so this whole
24:57conversation about free will is also
24:58tied up with the idea of what makes a
25:01human being valuable as opposed to an
25:02animal or as opposed to a widget and
25:04that conversation i don't think can be
25:06had separate jeremy really appreciate
25:08the phone call pat in houston texas
25:10you're on the bench bureau should go for
25:11pat
25:13hey ben uh my question is why should we
25:15draw a line for abortion at capacity for
25:17consciousness instead of conception
25:19so in my view mirror laws ought to
25:21conserve beings with capacity for
25:22consciousness and this consciousness
25:24arises from like your limbic system and
25:26information processing so this
25:28information processing is heavily tight
25:29and sensation times the safe signs of
25:32sensation are about eight to twelve
25:33weeks so why shouldn't we draw a line
25:35there instead of conception well so the
25:37question is why should capacity for
25:39consciousness be the line right now the
25:40burden of proof is on you to show why
25:42capacity for consciousness should be the
25:44line particularly because consciousness
25:45is more of a sliding scale i mean the
25:47fact is that unfortunately consciousness
25:49is not binary it's not like you're
25:50unconscious week 9 and now week 10 you
25:52are a fully conscious human being
25:54capable of recognizing your surroundings
25:55that obviously is not true babies hold
25:57consciousness in a different way than
25:58older children do which is why peter
26:00singer the philosopher from princeton
26:01has suggested that infanticide should be
26:03okay up to year three right so
26:05the question is what level of
26:06consciousness do you feel is necessary
26:08in order to preserve a human life i
26:10think consciousness is kind of a bad
26:11argument because as i've said before
26:13there are times when you are temporarily
26:14unconscious right i mean like you are
26:16you are unconscious when you are asleep
26:17this does not deride your value of life
26:20and when you're talking about a baby
26:22that is developing them or fetus or an
26:23embryo developing in the womb you are
26:25talking about temporary unconsciousness
26:26because they are in the process of
26:27development
26:30right so to push back on that i think
26:32that human beings have a preemptive case
26:34for developing capacious consciousness
26:36so once this capacity is instantiated
26:39that is the point in which we
26:41deem them as inherently valuable as
26:42human beings so the question of like
26:44being unconscious you still have the
26:45capacity for consciousness that's why we
26:47don't kill people that are vegetables
26:48because they still have this
26:49neurological capacity for consciousness
26:51which our understanding of neurology
26:53hasn't ruled out so yeah that's a time
26:54but that's a time delay question pat
26:56because the fact is that as the baby
26:57develops it has the quote unquote
26:58capacity it depends on your definition i
27:00don't mean to be lawyer lawyerly here
27:02but it depends on your definition of
27:03capacity do you mean that right now if i
27:05woke you up you would be you would be
27:07fully conscious because again vegetables
27:09you can't stab in the chest those people
27:11have less of a possibility
27:13very often of growing into consciousness
27:15than a normal human embryo which given
27:18you know several weeks will in fact grow
27:20into consciousness so i i do not i guess
27:23the biological framework would be the
27:25capacity i'm talking about here so like
27:26the actual neural sensations and the
27:29actual neural connections these are the
27:31capacity right the problem is again
27:33you end up you do end up in in sort of a
27:35eugenic moral box here in the sense that
27:38there are a lot of people who are adults
27:40who have limited capacity capacities for
27:42for consciousness and we presumably
27:43don't want to kill them so if you're
27:45talking about a general human capacity
27:46for consciousness that would extend to
27:48people where if you time delay for three
27:49weeks they do like the the actual
27:51capacity for consciousness the argument
27:53i'm making is the capacity for
27:54consciousness is instantiated not when
27:56the brain is developed to the point
27:58where you are conscious to a certain
28:00very very baseline level at week nine in
28:02the womb it is instantiated at
28:04consumption because again you will be a
28:06fully conscious creature given the
28:08inappropriate period of time as long as
28:09you're not killed pat i really
28:10appreciate the call we'll get to more of
28:12your calls in just one second at 855 236
28:1532 28 first let's talk about something
28:18that you can do for your family for
28:19yourself that really is important and
28:20really is fantastic and that is
28:21preserving your memories okay so i know
28:23that out in your garage a bunch of old
28:24films from grandma and you haven't
28:26watched them she hasn't watched them
28:27nobody's seen them for 40 years because
28:29who the hell has a machine capable of
28:31playing back film reels and projecting
28:33them on the wall these days you need
28:34everything in a digital file you need
28:36everything in a digital format here's
28:37where legacy box comes in so i just gave
28:39my parents a legacy box so they can put
28:41all of their old film reels in there
28:43send it off to legacy box have all the
28:44labels shipped with them right so they
28:46can keep track of all their materials
28:48legacy box then takes all those
28:49materials puts it on a on a thumb drive
28:52puts it in a dvd or a convenient digital
28:54download and then sends you back all
28:56your original materials so now it's all
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28:58you can watch it it is fantastic go
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29:03only are they trustworthy they are
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29:11preserving your past today go to
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29:25off your first order we're taking your
29:27calls at 855 236 32 28 keith in la
29:30crescenta you're on the bench shapiro
29:32should go for keith hi ben long time fan
29:34of the show keep doing god's work man
29:36yeah i appreciate it thank you as one of
29:38the only other white sox fans in la and
29:41since today is jose brady's birthday and
29:43by the way somebody else's birthday is
29:45tomorrow as well
29:46uh i just want to ask you who do you
29:49think is the best prospect in their
29:50system and how optimistic are you about
29:53the team's future thanks so i'm very
29:55optimistic about the white sox future i
29:56know this is a very sectional question
29:58very few people care about the white
29:59talks but i do so deal with it okay so
30:01the white sox future is great they have
30:02a fantastic group of prospects that are
30:04coming up michael kopeck is coming back
30:06from tommy john surgery got louis robert
30:07robert and central field at some point
30:09nick madrigal who's their second baseman
30:11will come up they just signed a bunch of
30:13free agents including dallas kukel as
30:16well as gio gonzalez the stocks are
30:18going to be competitive this year
30:19they'll compete for the ale wild card if
30:21not for the central division title
30:23itself and the next few years look
30:25really good they have a very young very
30:26talented team thanks for the white sox
30:28question always puts me in a good mood
30:29at least when they don't stink zach and
30:31indiana you're on the bench bureau
30:32should go for it zach hi ben i just want
30:34to say that i agree with you on most
30:36things that you say but whenever i bring
30:37up your arguments on racism or white
30:39privilege to friends of opposing views
30:41they say what you say is both and that
30:43you speak up you can't speak on a
30:45subject because you're not black and
30:47don't understand their daily struggles
30:49in society and that you blatantly ignore
30:51obvious cases of racially motivated acts
30:54against black people like with khalif
30:56browder or trayvon martin so what would
30:58your response be to that so you have to
31:00take each individual circumstance under
31:02the conditions in which it was committed
31:04so i i will admit that i don't know the
31:05first name that you refer to there so i
31:07will have to look up that case the
31:09trayvon martin case is a particular case
31:11where the justice department under
31:12barack obama found there was no racial
31:14motivation to that particular killing i
31:16mean the the entire killing was
31:18dismissed by a jury because the the case
31:21was that trayvon martin at the time of
31:22the shooting was sitting atop george
31:24zimmerman and banging his head into the
31:25ground according to witness testimony
31:27and forensic evidence so that is not a
31:29great case of racism if you want to talk
31:30about a great case of racism then you
31:32would talk about the case of walter
31:33scott up in south carolina which i have
31:34talked about extensively right a case
31:36where a cop shot a black man in the back
31:37and then planted a gun on him that guy
31:39went to jail for life he should have
31:40gone to jail for life when there are
31:42cases of actual racism i like we're all
31:45on the same side here
31:46my general statement is that there is no
31:48such thing as quote-unquote
31:49institutional racism that institutions
31:51are not racist that if you are if you're
31:53looking at individuals who are being
31:55racist or if you can spot an institution
31:57that is acting in a racist fashion we
31:58will all be on the same side what i
32:00don't like is the generalized argument
32:01that america is institutionally racist
32:03or systemically racist when your only
32:05evidence of quote unquote institutional
32:06or systemic racism is that there is
32:08disproportionate impact of a law on a
32:10particular population without looking
32:12into the actual activities within
32:15population so for example when people
32:16say the criminal justice system is
32:18racist because a disproportionate number
32:19of black people are in jail that does
32:21not take into account differential crime
32:23rates among populations right if you can
32:24show me that a disproportionate number
32:26of black people as compared to crime
32:28rates are in jail then we can talk about
32:30where the racism lies in the system but
32:32if you are just saying that a
32:33disproportionate number of black people
32:34are in jail for homicide when
32:36unfortunately a disproportionate number
32:38of homicides are committed by black
32:40people that is not evidence of systemic
32:42racism inside the system so in other
32:43words we should all be looking at
32:44instances of racism to fight when people
32:46blame all in
32:48all in inequality on inequity when they
32:50blame all disproportion on some sort of
32:53vague racism that they can't define they
32:54just sort of spit out a phrase like
32:55white privilege or institutional racism
32:57without explaining exactly what in the
32:59policy is racist or who are the racists
33:01who implemented the policy i've said
33:03before i think that's ghost hunting and
33:05i think that is not designed to actually
33:06come up with a solution i think it's
33:08actually designed to forestall a
33:09solution that we can all agree on
33:10because again if you show me a racist
33:12incident then i'm happy to not only
33:14label it racist but say that the person
33:16should be punished to the full extent of
33:17the law zack hey ben so i want to ask
33:19you a question you said earlier that a
33:21lot of democrats are uncomfortable
33:22looking at pictures of children that are
33:25being aborted
33:26yet i would say that you and many other
33:28republicans would feel equally
33:30uncomfortable looking at pictures of
33:31sandy hook victims who were shot how can
33:33you honestly stand up here and say that
33:36you support abortion you support
33:38government intervention excuse me you
33:39support government intervention to
33:42make abortion illegal which is designed
33:45to kill someone and yet you can stand up
33:47here and say you don't want government
33:48intervention for guns which are also
33:50designed to kill people because guns are
33:52not designed to kill children guns are
33:53designed to kill bad guys if operated by
33:55a proper person there's not an abortion
33:56in the world that doesn't end with the
33:57death of a baby
33:58[Applause]
34:03so
34:05so
34:06honestly
34:08the reason so i have i have so i i have
34:11no problem with looking at the pictures
34:13of gun violence victims other than the
34:14problems any other human being left or
34:16right would have with looking at those
34:17pictures which is that they're horrific
34:19and deeply disturbing and very upsetting
34:21but i don't feel any sense of guilt or
34:24avoidance like i can't look at this
34:25picture because i bear some sort of
34:27responsibility for this it is impossible
34:29not to look at a picture of an aborted
34:30baby and say this was disconnected from
34:32the act that i approve because the act
34:35is the killing of the baby
34:36there's no there's no policy that i
34:38approve of that ends with the murder of
34:40children okay there is a policy that is
34:43designed for the murder of children
34:45which is what abortion is
34:47yeah that's fine you can have a quick
34:48follow-up this mine sir okay so but if
34:50all people right you said that um once
34:52the cells come together you said those
34:53are considered people which i can
34:55understand i can get that's considered a
34:56human life human life right yes why is
34:58this human life being killed in another
35:01human life being killed by gun violence
35:03why is that any different
35:04again it's not a matter of the value of
35:06the human life being different it's it's
35:08equally as evil and and tragic and
35:10horrific and disgusting
35:12when people kill fully formed children
35:15who are outside the womb my point is
35:16that the act that connects to the
35:18killing of the children is not connected
35:20to my position on guns the act that
35:22connects to the killing of unborn babies
35:24is connected to the legalization of
35:26abortion the reason that i want people
35:28to be able to exercise their second
35:29amendment rights is to shoot
35:31pieces
35:32like the people who go into like the
35:34people who go into schools and and shoot
35:36up children
35:37both my i have two kids they both go to
35:39a jewish school which means they are on
35:40the target list for somebody out there
35:42right jewish schools jewish schools are
35:43disproportionately targeted
35:45unfortunately in the united states i
35:47went to a jewish school when i was in
35:48high school there were bomb threats
35:50legitimately every couple of months
35:52in 1999 there was a white supremacist
35:54who drove by our jewish day school saw
35:56an armed guard outside proceeded to
35:57drive away went to the west valley jcc
35:59and shot up the west valley jcc the
36:01reason that i'm in favor of gun rights
36:02is because i want that armed guard
36:03outside carrying the gun to dissuade
36:05people from going inside the school and
36:06shooting the kid i'm not in favor of
36:10[Music]
36:15i just have a quick question about
36:16abortion i was wondering um the way you
36:18described me it sounds like uh killing
36:20of babies whether unborn or born um
36:23sounds like a first murder case i should
36:26make sure i'm getting that right um
36:28punishment for first degree murder is
36:29life imprisonment without parole i was
36:31wondering if you think
36:33um people who commit abortions should be
36:35sentenced to life in prison without
36:36parole and doctors specifically
36:39doctors or mothers okay so the the
36:41position of the pro-life movement has
36:42been for decades the mothers should not
36:43be punished for abortion that women are
36:45at least in part as much a victim of the
36:47abortion as the child and that springs
36:49largely from ignorance about what
36:51exactly is being killed very few women
36:54are actively saying sure it's a baby in
36:56my womb take it out most of them are
36:57saying it's a ball of tissue it's
36:58nothing it doesn't mean anything i've
37:00been told by planned parenthood that it
37:01means nothing so go ahead and perform
37:03this polyp surgery and so that's acting
37:05out of ignorance it lacks the mens rea
37:07and sort of legal terminology that would
37:09be necessary in order to establish
37:10something like a first degree murder
37:11charge the same thing does not hold true
37:13for kermit gosnell the same thing does
37:15not hold true for abortion doctors who
37:17are fully aware that a 20 week old baby
37:19is in fact a baby and who are aware that
37:22an incipient human life is in fact an
37:23incipient human life now when it comes
37:25to gradations of punishment based on the
37:26term of the abortion it's an argument
37:28that honestly i haven't considered very
37:30much to be frank with you i haven't
37:32actually sat down and thought about what
37:34a criminal code would look like is the
37:35same punishment for boarding at two
37:37weeks as it would be for boarding at 30
37:40weeks i think first of all it'd be
37:41difficult to establish any sort of
37:43public support for a law
37:45quite like that my main issue is not
37:48about the punishment so much as it is
37:49about the disincentive to the
37:50performance of the abortion itself i'm
37:52more interested in preserving the lives
37:54as opposed to punishing the people who
37:56are taking them the only reason to
37:57punish is to preserve the lives and
37:58provide a disincentive so whatever
38:00disincentive was necessary in order to
38:02prevent the murder of the unborn i'm
38:03very much in favor of okay so you said
38:05whatever dis incentive is necessary um
38:09is there a limit on to what lengths you
38:11would go if you were imposing policy to
38:14um
38:15prevent abortion or like yeah i mean i
38:17just i said i wouldn't i don't think
38:19that a punishment is appropriate for the
38:20mother i think when it comes to abortion
38:21doctors who are making their living by
38:22killing presumably thousands of unborn
38:24children uh there are very few lengths
38:26to which i i think that i would not go
38:29in terms of government policy in
38:30punishing those doctors and giving them
38:32jail time okay thank you ben
38:38my question is about abortion
38:41so usually when i talk about that with
38:44other you know folks either the approach
38:47is
38:48from a relation religious standpoint or
38:51trying to apply science to it
38:54so but never seen like a
38:57kind of like a you know happy medium
38:59between the two
39:00so are you optimistic that there's going
39:03to be i don't know
39:05a resolution to that issue that up to
39:07that approach maybe from a religious
39:09perspective also with some times in it
39:13um so i i think that the possibility of
39:15a resolution uh is going to be more
39:17incremental than anything else and it's
39:18happening in real time right you can see
39:20the american people's opinions on
39:21abortion have shifted pretty markedly
39:23toward the pro-life position now to get
39:25all the way to the full pro-life
39:26position that i hold which essentially
39:28is that from conception this is when
39:29life begins it's going to take more work
39:31it's going to take more education and
39:32it's going to take a ground shift in the
39:34way that americans tend to think about
39:35these issues but as people see with more
39:37clarity into the womb itself as people
39:39see the biology more clearly they're
39:41beginning to to become less and less
39:42warm toward abortion like the actual
39:44number of abortions in the united states
39:45has dropped now to its lowest levels
39:46since actually roe v wade and that is in
39:48large part due
39:49[Applause]
39:54that's in large part too to the
39:56educational efforts of a wide variety of
39:58groups it's due to 40 ultrasounds it's
40:00roots of the ability it's due to the
40:01ability to see more of the human biology
40:03and as people understand biology better
40:04they're going to be more pro-life

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