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Steven Callahan, Adrift 76 Days Alone at Sea, a Story of Survival 04-09-2017 — Transcript

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0:06[Music]
0:26hello everyone welcome to the show I'm
0:28Martin Willis your host and I am up in
0:30the state of main I guess what you call
0:32it down East I am down east with Steven
0:35Callahan and uh I'm really excited about
0:38today's show um back in the late 1980s I
0:42used to sail myself and also my
0:46brother-in-law uh one day at the time
0:48told me about um this amazing book he
0:51was reading called a drift um also I
0:54used to be a crew member on a racing
0:57Sloop I think it was a 12 meter racing
0:58Sloop out of new Castle New Hampshire
1:01everybody was talking about a book
1:02called a drift so I did something really
1:05rare at the time and that is I bought a
1:07book and um I could not put it down it
1:11was fascinating uh A Story of Survival
1:14and I'm really happy to be up here in
1:16Maine with uh Stephen Callahan how you
1:19doing Stephen I'm doing all right thanks
1:21very much yeah thanks for uh joining us
1:23thanks for still being
1:25here my pleasure I can assure you yeah
1:28yeah um for the listener who has never
1:31heard this story um I know you've told
1:34it a million times probably even more um
1:37but can you give like a a nutshell uh
1:40and then I'll I'll go on and ask you
1:42some you want me to give you the
1:43smallest nutshell I can no
1:45no well um yeah okay I'll I'll do a a
1:49slightly elongated nutshell um in the
1:53late
1:5470s um I designed and built a little
1:57boat in the Napoleon solo my Escape
1:59machine my uh life was a bit falling
2:02apart um my wife and I were separated
2:06and I don't know I was a little
2:08disenchanted with people in the country
2:10and all that stuff and so in
2:141981 I sailed Napoleon solo across the
2:18Atlantic to England um and the
2:21inspiration for that goes back to my
2:23Early Childhood I had read a book called
2:25Tinkerbell written by Robert manry who
2:27was a uh newspaper reporter who bought a
2:31little 13 and a half with boat and
2:33basically designed to sail on lakes
2:36and had a good time with his family with
2:38it for a number of years and then he
2:40decided he decked it over put a little
2:41cabin on it and sailed it to England and
2:43am uh I think he bought the boat for
2:45like $250 or something like that I don't
2:47know what it was almost nothing uh and
2:50it really showed me that people could
2:51kind of have a life of lead a life of
2:54adventure they didn't have to be
2:56particularly wealthy or smart which was
3:00fit me perfectly so I set off on my
3:03little boat finally when my life was
3:05falling apart and to fulfill those
3:07childhood dreams of crossing the ocean
3:09on a small boat and uh friend with me
3:12went with me partway um and then I left
3:16the England in the fall of
3:211981 and was in a race that would
3:23eventually go down to the Caribbean but
3:26uh it was very stormy they lost a number
3:28of boats couple people got
3:30killed and so I I had damage on my boat
3:33and I dropped out so I did but I needed
3:36to get back to the States and earn money
3:39and all that uh so I just continued on
3:43my voyage and got down to the Canary
3:46Islands which are just off the coast of
3:48Africa and was on kind of the final leg
3:51of my double crossing in the Atlantic um
3:54which usually is the easy part I'd done
3:56the tough part the north part of the
3:58North Atlantic
4:00and I was on the easier part the trade
4:02winds uh blowing me steadily to the
4:05Caribbean I got about a week out had a
4:07lovely weak of sailing which is
4:10unusual um and the weather started
4:13Brewing up but I wasn't particularly
4:15worried about it the boat and I had gone
4:17through several Gales before and it
4:19wasn't anything too
4:21horrendous um and about midnight
4:25February 4th
4:261982 um Big Bang on the side of the boat
4:29filled up with water very quickly um
4:34and fortunately for me the boat had
4:36watertight compartments in it so um it
4:41kind of stabilized in the water I
4:42couldn't stay aboard because waves were
4:44washing right I waves are like I don't
4:46know probably average size and you know
4:48roughly 10 feet or so so the boat was
4:51very very low in the water the in fact
4:52the bow was under water it was just a
4:54little bit of the stern sticking up and
4:57waves washing over it so I inflated my
4:59life rra
5:00jumped in when the boat stabilized
5:02didn't actually outright sink then I I I
5:05was able to get back aboard and uh dive
5:08down inside and get some PR pretty
5:10critical gear and after some time of
5:15doing this uh it uh I got in the raft
5:19and was going to await daylight but it
5:21was like being an auto accident every
5:23few minutes a breaking wave would hit
5:25the raft and it was tied to this boat
5:27full of water which was a huge SE
5:30anchor and the raft being very light
5:33bobbling around on the top of the water
5:35um just was getting crushed um and just
5:38before daylight uh I was broken away
5:41from the boat uh which was kind of a a
5:43mixed blessing a lot of the story of a
5:45drift is um about gray in life yeah that
5:50nothing is just good or bad things are
5:52what they are and you you try to come to
5:55grips with the reality of it and deal
5:57with it so for me it was like a big
5:59disappointment that I was broken away
6:01from the boat uh because I had a lot of
6:04water and food and things in the boat
6:06that I might have been able to retrieve
6:07the next day but can you hang on just
6:09for a second there when you say broken
6:11away now you had you had a painter going
6:15yeah did that break or no the painter it
6:18was a pretty hefty piece of line it was
6:20whatever it was tied onto in the boat
6:22broke and I just went drifting off
6:25trailing the line away and I you know
6:27look at it was all all of a sudden this
6:29wave hit the raft and you know usually
6:32like I say it was like being in an auto
6:33accident really every few minutes and uh
6:36all of a sudden it was like peaceful
6:38relatively
6:39peaceful and I look out and there with
6:41you know a boat further and further
6:44behind so it was a a pretty Melancholy
6:47moment because uh I knew I was pretty
6:50much dead smack in the middle of the
6:52Atlantic Ocean and drifting with with
6:55wind and current downwind I had you know
6:58basically close to
7:012,000 uh land miles to go and uh it
7:05would it it just seemed absolutely
7:07impossible but um so I spent the next
7:10two and a half months basically um uh
7:13watching the environment evolve in
7:16learning to become an aquatic
7:18caveman that's good way to put it it's
7:21wow it's really the thing I could I
7:22could you know I just was very much like
7:25living a cave caveman's existent but out
7:28in the middle of the ocean you know I
7:29fish with a spear I lived in this little
7:31cave although was a rubber cave and uh
7:35and tried to learn uh the nuances of the
7:40evolving environment around me so I
7:42could uh learn how to get food and
7:45produce water and do all the things that
7:47would keep me alive for two and a half
7:50months now you had uh quite a raft you
7:53had a six-man raft Avery and I know that
7:56um you had to yank on the uh cord a
7:59bunch of times and you thought right
8:00then it was all over yeah I didn't think
8:02the raft was going to inflate I thought
8:04I was you know cuz it's got this yeah
8:06it's got this rip cord and when you come
8:09to the end you pull it in it it it it it
8:12pulls the pin basically that allows a a
8:15a gas canister to inflate the raft but
8:17they they do
8:20fail and I kept pulling and pulling and
8:23pulling and like nothing was happening
8:24and so you know my
8:26first my first fear I guess well maybe
8:29was my first one but my probably my 50th
8:31fear at that point was that the raft
8:33wouldn't um wouldn't inflate but in fact
8:36it it did now when you went to buy that
8:38raft um that was like way overkill for
8:42what you normally would need out to see
8:44did you like contemplate buying a lesser
8:46raft at the time or did you just slurge
8:49on that yeah well it was a mixed thing
8:53um I had been interested in Marine
8:57safety and I was involved in the Marine
8:59industry I was built boats initially
9:01when I got out of school and then I got
9:03into doing design at the time when I
9:05left a Napoleon solo I was designing and
9:07teaching
9:08design and uh safety was a really strong
9:12interest of mine and I had knew a lot of
9:15uh people
9:17who uh were incredible Sailors you know
9:20worldclass Sailors and several of them
9:24had gotten into trouble um so it was it
9:27was a distinct possibility that you go
9:29offshore and you can get into trouble
9:31and there's no you can't park it on the
9:33side of the road you know uh put out a
9:35little a little banner and hope that the
9:37stadies are going to stop by and pick
9:39you up and fix your problems I mean
9:41that's part of the the the deal of going
9:43offshore is you have amazing freedom but
9:46you also have total responsibility so I
9:49I was paying attention to those issues
9:51and at one a previous boat that I'd had
9:53that I was living on uh I had a life
9:55raft and at one point we actually took
9:58it out of the canister and blew it up
10:00and um a couple of friends and I got
10:02into it and just kind of looked at each
10:04other and said oh my God I hope we're
10:05never in one of these and that was a
10:08four-person raft and the reality is that
10:11you know um uh the ideal situation would
10:16be to be able to pick something out of
10:18your pocket about the size of a pack of
10:20cards and pull a rip cord and the QE2 in
10:22place you know that's what you want uh
10:26but it's difficult to design safety
10:28equipment because you want it to be
10:29compact light and serve all purposes
10:32which is you know a huge range of
10:34scenarios so the standard raft it gives
10:38you four square feet per person for its
10:41capacity because most people who are
10:44have to get into a life rafter picked up
10:46within 24 36 hours it's only the
10:49oddballs like me out there sailing
10:52around by myself offshore that would
10:55need a wrap for a longer period of time
10:57so I figured you know the bigger the
10:58better
11:00and I uh bought the raft from uh
11:03somebody I knew who had a marine
11:05business selling stuff and it would it
11:06had been prepared offshore by the it
11:09wasn't a brand new raft it had been
11:11prepared for an offshore trip by the
11:13prior owner so it had extra gear in it
11:15and all that stuff and it was a Sixers
11:17raft so that's how we ended up with it
11:19wow wow so um you're your sound asleep
11:22in the middle of the night you hear this
11:24loud bang and all of a sudden you're you
11:26know you're you're almost kneee in water
11:29right um and that possibly was a
11:33whale my presumption is that it was a
11:36whale I mean there's a lot of stuff in
11:38in floating around in the ocean there
11:39are logs and containers I've seen all
11:41this stuff myself you know gone right by
11:44whole trees and yeah could be anything
11:46it it could have been anything but
11:48because I was actually still sailing the
11:50boat I was going fairly fast forward uh
11:54across these waves and the blow came
11:57from the side my presumption was that it
11:59wasn't a container or something like
12:01that that probably would have hit on the
12:03forward part of the boat but was
12:05probably something that kind of Hit the
12:07side of the boat and I had hit a whale
12:09previously in 1979 in broad daylight I
12:12was steering and it just was it's it's
12:14almost impossible to see them if there
12:16are any kind of waves out you know
12:18they're like like logs a wash in fact a
12:20lot of times they are totally a wash and
12:21you just see little parts of their backs
12:25and uh and and you know a number of
12:28people I I've known have hit whales or
12:30whales have hit them and sailboat
12:32doesn't make a lot of noise yeah uh
12:34especially in a stormy condition where
12:36waves are breaking and stuff it makes
12:38almost no noise compared to the wave so
12:40I I think we were probably just like
12:42going on our merry way and just bumped
12:46heads bumped heads and all that but you
12:48know it's a lot stronger than big a
12:50whale's a lot stronger than a little
12:52boat yeah now you had a crack um you had
12:54a crack in the hull uh when you were
12:57crossing the Atlantic that you repaired
12:59in France was it or some place like that
13:01in Spain after when I left um know the
13:05crossing to England went extremely well
13:07uh well initially I I broke the Mast and
13:10had to get go back to the States I had
13:12to jury rig and sail it back to the
13:14States and reig it and then we
13:16strengthened the the the rig and uh and
13:20set off and then had a pretty Flawless
13:23trip to England um despite some Gales
13:27and whatnot and but then at the
13:29beginning of this race as I was crossing
13:31the Bay of bisque it was really nasty
13:34nasty weather like I say it was numbered
13:36there I think they lost three or four
13:38boats in the same conditions yeah and I
13:41was really smashing across these waves
13:44and and I had a crack and developed uh
13:47just under the deck on one side and um
13:50so I sailed the boat into larun in the
13:52north of Spain and did repairs there and
13:55waited there for like a month because of
13:57was gale force winds every day for like
14:00a month and then set off again and got
14:03down to the canary you know went out to
14:05down the whole coast of Spain and
14:06Portugal out to theer and then down to
14:08the canaries now you built the boat
14:10yourself which is quite amazing um but
14:13do you think that any of the Integrity
14:15of the boat was because it was a a built
14:18boat or do you think that it was just as
14:20solid as any um it's hard to say I I
14:24think that you know it was built as a
14:27little cruising boat but you know not
14:30many people take both sides you know
14:31it's 21 feet so it's pretty small it's
14:34kind of like your average van or
14:35something you know yeah taking there are
14:37other boats that have gone plenty of
14:39boats that have gone across the ocean of
14:40that size or smaller especially now but
14:42at the time it certainly wasn't common
14:44there it was probably I don't know maybe
14:46a dozen people in America who had ever
14:48crossed the ocean in that size of boat
14:52and you know all boats are
14:54vulnerable and there's a balance in
14:56structure because forces is equal mass
14:58times acceleration or
15:00deceleration uh so the heavier you make
15:02something like a boat the if you hit
15:05something or something hits you the
15:07larger the force is as well so uh
15:11there's a balance there and the boat was
15:13a cold molded boat which means it's
15:15basically plywood but you're making
15:17plywood in a three-dimensional you know
15:20curved shape and uh it although people
15:25been building boats this this way for a
15:27while uh how tough to make the boat was
15:30still a bit of an open question and
15:32whatnot and I think I could have made it
15:34stronger I think it was partially my
15:35fault and that's why you know once I'm
15:37in the raft I'm beating myself up about
15:39every all my mistakes and I I felt like
15:43I probably let the boat down that I
15:45didn't make it quite quite strong enough
15:47I mean it made it all the way across the
15:49Atlantic fine but you know on the way
15:51back and I and I don't know if I had
15:53made it even twice as strong if it would
15:56have survived the Collision because I
15:58known
15:59i i i in fact right before I lost the
16:01boat I met the some French guys who were
16:04on a
16:05steel very conservative boat that got
16:08hit by an orca and um sunket and the
16:13Bailey before me and the Robertson were
16:16both on heavily built very conservative
16:18boats that were all were sunk by whales
16:21um and
16:23uh um Butler after me as well was on a
16:26very conservative very heavily built
16:28boat that was sunk by whales so I the
16:31answer is I really have no idea now
16:34there was a a friend of mine crossing
16:36the Atlantic he told me this story he
16:38was out in the Atlantic he saw this boat
16:40ahead of him sort of I don't know if
16:42it's a lane that you take or whatever
16:45but yeah so he saw the boat and he saw
16:46it was very very low on the ground it
16:48was a cement cast Hull mhm and uh the
16:51guy came up that was on the boat he was
16:53going solo and he was totally drunk and
16:56he said the boat's going down he said
16:58well they couldn't talk the guy would
17:00not come aboard their boat oh really
17:02yeah so you know they radioed or
17:03whatever but can you imagine I mean
17:05that's like he was going he decided he
17:08was he wasn't going to well there's an
17:10interesting and there was actually um I
17:11remember seeing some footage because
17:13I've been you know after my own
17:15experience um especially I contined to
17:18be involved with survival and safety
17:21issues and going to conferences and all
17:23that kind of stuff and there was a very
17:25interesting video of a uh fishing boat
17:29that had turned turtle and was going
17:32down and there was a guy
17:34clutching the back in the the rudder and
17:37there was a rescue boat that was 5 feet
17:40from him he would not let go and he went
17:43right down oh my God he could not let go
17:46and I've witnessed that myself with
17:49people I back in this I don't know mid
17:5370s uh I was in a harbor anchored and
17:55this little boat comes into the harbor
17:57and it's screwed up and intoed up on the
17:59rocks and I went over and there was a
18:01woman aboard and you could literally
18:04step off the boat onto a rock and she
18:07was clutched on to this Lifeline
18:12staion and she she was she was
18:15completely Frozen and unable to hear I
18:19think at the time she just catonic she
18:21was like catatonic and that's what
18:23happens when what we found in in
18:26survival scenarios in a very general s
18:29and looking at oilid fires and 911 and
18:33stuff like that about 15% of people are
18:36highly um um skilled in being able to uh
18:43do what's a kind of psychological
18:45splitting they might be frightened and
18:47freaked out and whatnot but they're also
18:49able to kind of function on what they
18:51need to do and assessing risks and
18:52things like that and about 15% of people
18:56will either be you know wildly panicking
18:58running around like you know the
19:00proverbial chicken with their head cut
19:02off um or in this kind of catatonic
19:06State totally dysfunctional wow um and
19:09about 2third of people roughly are can
19:12be functional but they need some kind of
19:15guidance it's like the in it's you know
19:17if you look at um like in the ghettos in
19:20in uh Nazi Germany that were being
19:23emptied out uh people knew kind of had
19:26an idea this wasn't a good scen so what
19:29did they do they went back to their they
19:31went back to their apartments or
19:32wherever they living they would clean up
19:34and stuff and that happens even in
19:36things like in um in you know 911 and
19:40stuff it's a very common thing for
19:41people to hold they they they'd hold
19:44meetings to discuss what to do or they
19:48would go back to their desks and tidy up
19:50and things like that you know um
19:53so but if with a bit of Guidance with
19:56the 15% or highly you know functional in
20:00that time if they can get people give
20:03people this guidance then then they can
20:05be highly functional but but but they
20:07just can't do it on their own because
20:08it's too overwhelming yeah you know it's
20:10like sensory overload and especially if
20:14you're unfamiliar with the environment
20:15at least I was familiar with my
20:17environment and I'd gone through all
20:18kinds of scenarios in my head and had
20:22gone through you know um a lot of
20:25experiences offshore where I had to deal
20:27with problems
20:29MH you know so I was actually in a
20:31pretty fortunate position compared to
20:33somebody who's like I don't know they're
20:35just out in their daily thing and all of
20:36a sudden there's a terrorist attack or
20:38something like that which is like all of
20:39a sudden you're overwhelmed by
20:42completely unexpected circumstances sure
20:44yeah so so you're you're you're on the
20:48raft and you realize that you have um
20:50some food and you're sleeping bag and
20:53stuff like that that you have a lot of
20:54equipment left in the boat so each time
20:57you went back to the boat and you went
20:59down inside there's one time where you
21:00got locked the the yeah I thought the
21:03ball was going down yeah how could you
21:05not think anything else and the boat was
21:07going to go down while you're inside of
21:08it I mean it must have been a it was it
21:10was pretty horrifying moment but
21:12fortunately it was just one of these
21:13things that you know only lasted a
21:15moment I yeah I was I was going back to
21:18the boat you know the the the raft has
21:20kind of standard gear in it but I had a
21:21ditch kit all made up with emergency
21:23gear and so the first thing was to get
21:26that out and then it was insulation you
21:28know you
21:29we we say that you need uh uh What uh
21:33closed food and water to survive well
21:36that's actually
21:38incorrect or oversimplified it's missing
21:41something critical and it one's double
21:43you the
21:44clothing uh uh food shelter and clothing
21:48are the same thing you need insulation
21:51from the environment and you need food
21:52but you don't need food for like a month
21:54or well I mean you might need it be
21:56useful before that but you can live up
21:58to about month without food what you
21:59really need is you need insulation from
22:02the environment which can kill you in
22:04minutes uh through hypothermia or
22:07overheating uh you need water yeah and
22:12you need food longer term and of course
22:14this is presuming that you're not
22:17injured critically which there's not a
22:19lot you're going to do in a life raft
22:21for that if you're critically injured
22:23you're kind of toast frankly that's
22:24right that's right uh but um so my main
22:28interest was to get more insulation it
22:30was cold enough especially night
22:31hypothermia was a real problem for the
22:33first half of the voyage second half of
22:35the problem would be overheating during
22:37the day but the first half was trying to
22:39stay warm at night so I got a piece of
22:42cushion and sleeping bag even though
22:45they were wet a lot of the time they
22:47gave me some critical insulation plus I
22:49had space blanket and that kind of thing
22:52oh and uh so I got all that stuff out of
22:54the boat fortunately but one time I was
22:56down getting stuff and I came up to the
22:59hatch and the hatch got slammed shut and
23:01all I saw you know it was at night you
23:03couldn't see a lot but I knew there was
23:05water over the top so I thought that was
23:07it the boat was going straight down but
23:09fortunately it was just a wave that was
23:11kind of passing and jeez it it went by
23:14and I was able to get the hatch open and
23:16get up and get into the raft a million
23:19things going through your head at the
23:20same time yeah there's a lot of
23:23um um you know people aren't I I don't
23:27look at people as being single dial
23:28we're all multi-dimensional we don't
23:31just when you say well what do you think
23:32about this or what do you feel about
23:34that actually most people if they're
23:37normal they think a lot of different
23:39things about any any especially
23:41important issue um and they feel a lot
23:44of different ways you know you you I
23:46don't know you is the saying goes you
23:48know you you love your spouse and you
23:50want to kill them half you know you know
23:52we all have these different things going
23:55on so in in this situation
23:59um you know I was actually quite aware
24:01that there were all these voices in my
24:03head kind of going on at the same time
24:05as the boat was going down there was
24:06part of me that was uh certainly
24:09completely freaked out and frightened
24:11part of me that was like oh forget about
24:13it you're not even going to get out of
24:15here U sort of giving up there was a
24:17part of me that's telling those voices
24:19to shut the hell up um yeah and
24:21concentrate on what I needed to do and
24:23there was part of me that was even a
24:24little amused by you know um and we find
24:27the sort of humor are quite common in
24:29survival stories right so you know I get
24:31up on the deck and I see that the
24:33electrical system of the boat's kind of
24:35fused together and the the camera I have
24:37mounted I have a little film camera
24:39mounted on the AF end of the boat is
24:40taking this really dramatic footage that
24:43I thought that's yeah that was pretty
24:45amusing actually and and through the
24:47voyage I would try to hang on to that
24:50you know not to suffer as the the
24:52military turned it a sense of humor
24:55failure um so even in disy times you can
24:59find something to I don't know if not
25:02laugh at at least smile at yeah now
25:06there were I wouldn't even know if you
25:08ever counted how many different ways
25:11that you could have died that you were
25:13able to sur but this countless things
25:16that were happening on this 76 days and
25:19um yeah so I'd like to talk a little bit
25:22about that and I know you were your life
25:24was saved by a fork um it Sav by any
25:28number thousands thousands probably
25:31millions billions of things really if
25:33you think about them you know just you
25:36know it's amazing that we have life at
25:37all that the water is the peculiar
25:40substance it is and has its properties
25:42or we wouldn't even be alive period but
25:46ice the way ice floats on the top of
25:47them yeah all that um so I don't know
25:51but even ignoring those you know even
25:55getting focusing on the more obvious
25:57things you know know that uh anything
26:00floats in the ocean is a little island
26:03develops an island ecology and that's
26:05what survivors live
26:08on it's a strange thing the fish start
26:10following it yeah yeah the the fish
26:12started Gathering I don't know within a
26:14few days um and the school we build over
26:18time through the end of the voyage and
26:20they use it I thought that they used the
26:23raft as kind of a a social Center if you
26:25will and um just
26:28that brought them close enough to me
26:30where I could actually catch them um you
26:33know millions of things the end of The
26:35Voyage you know the kind of the the
26:37culmination when I was rescued was
26:39because the of this environment that had
26:41evolved around the raft um I mean really
26:44the story of a drift is really it's not
26:46like Steven Callahan heroic floaty
26:49Survivor it's really Steven Callahan
26:52inept humanoid in this amazing
26:54Wilderness environment that that brought
26:57to bear so many amazing little
27:00coincidences and things that went just
27:02right that allowed me to witness it and
27:04to survive in the end and I was I was
27:07the clumsy Observer the stars of the
27:10show were like the D upon which I lived
27:12and in the environment overall yeah yeah
27:16now when you were able to actually spear
27:18your first one was that fairly soon in
27:20your uh your drift no it took almost two
27:24weeks oh wow yeah the you know if you
27:27look at the
27:29I don't know the Arc of the Survival
27:31Story people divvied up in lots of
27:34different ways conceptual ways and
27:35whatnot the the way I look at the models
27:38that I use um are more or less
27:42chronological there's not and you know
27:45they're not fixed rules and one bleeds
27:47into another but generally speaking you
27:49know there's like pre impact how are
27:50prepared to you for what might happen
27:53then there's impact itself which in my
27:55case is the boat's going down and you
27:57know or fires your house catches on fire
28:00it's escaping that immediate threat and
28:03then you enter into what actually is
28:06often the most difficult period for most
28:08survivors uh once they escape the
28:11immediate threat and that's sometimes
28:13called recoil for me that lasted about
28:16two weeks and that's a period of time
28:18where you don't really know how am I
28:21going to make a living out here I I mean
28:23I you know even as prepared as I thought
28:25I was it's like so overwhelming to think
28:28that I'm even to get to the shipping
28:29lanes not to mention 2,000 miles
28:32downwind to Caribbean islands which is
28:34where I'm going to go eventually I don't
28:36have enough food and water to make it to
28:38the shipping lanes the ocean is dead
28:40clear I don't you know and it takes a
28:43while for things to start evolving and
28:44for you to figure out systems so for me
28:47it was you know to produce water to
28:49catch fish those were the two primary
28:51problems I had some leaks in the raft
28:53and other adjustments to make but those
28:55are the big things and it took just took
28:58while for that ecosystem to start
29:00developing and these and fish are not
29:02stupid in fact they showed me they're a
29:05lot smarter than me uh which may not
29:08take a lot but uh they they were
29:10incredibly fast you know Doro you know
29:13they're fast fish fash they swim at 50
29:15knots they they can dart at 50 knots
29:19yeah they're they you know they catch
29:21flying fish in the air and stuff like
29:22that they're they're pretty smart and um
29:26so you know for example
29:28I had a spear
29:30gun and which I bought just this kind of
29:33little teeny thing almost like a a toy
29:36um but I thought it would be useful
29:38especially in the Caribbean and
29:41uh so I'm shooting at the at the fish
29:45and um but it's difficult because you're
29:47above the water and you have refraction
29:49problems and all that and they're moving
29:50very quickly and so I hit several and
29:54within 24 hours they knew exactly what
29:56the range of that spear was and they'd
29:58be like swimming around the raft you
30:00know just out of range and but then they
30:03sneak attack cuz they do this thing they
30:04bump the bottom of the raft and we still
30:06have no idea some people speculate that
30:08they're rubbing uh things off their skin
30:12parasites or whatever but you know
30:15they've noticed this before um in this
30:19behavior and uh so they would bump the
30:21bottom of the raft and they had
30:24different personalities actually I could
30:26tell them by the end of the voyage by
30:28Behavior patterns you know those big
30:30male would love to come up on the around
30:32the raft and smack it with its tail and
30:34kind of push it around on the ocean like
30:36it was a toy or something and and all of
30:38that but eventually that would I I would
30:41use that to my advantage I'd push my
30:43knees down you know the floor is only
30:46like an eighth inch of reinforced rubber
30:48so it's like it's almost like literally
30:50walking on water you feel every little
30:52water yeah exactly I I I like it into a
30:55water bed living with a couple kangaroos
30:58cuz it's bouncing around everywhere all
31:01the time but that allowed me to to to
31:04push something down and the the fish
31:06would tend to come up and bump my knees
31:07or anything that was pressing down on
31:09the floor and uh that would get them
31:11close enough to where I could finally uh
31:14uh spear them uh I tried it with a line
31:18a couple of times that was a total
31:19failure oh yeah uh you know they just
31:22bite through the line then I found a
31:24piece of wire and put you know I was
31:26making these lures a bits of couple
31:29flying fish landed aboard so I cut the
31:31midds out ate that and stuck The Head
31:33and the tail together and made a lure
31:35out of it and the the fly you know the D
31:37went right after that but the first they
31:39just bite off the line and then I found
31:41a piece of wire and I put that get you
31:43know for a piece of leader and as soon
31:45as the next fish was hooked it just swam
31:48really fast forward to the front of the
31:49leader and clipped off the line so I
31:51never caught a fish with line so if you
31:54didn't have that spear gun that's
31:56another thing if you didn't have that
31:57spear gun with you you would have been
31:58finished basically most yeah prob
32:01probably though you never know you know
32:03people have survived you know you adapt
32:06to whatever you have you know you're in
32:08an isolated environment with limited um
32:11resources um and it's amazing to see how
32:16survivors have adapted over time um many
32:19of them this guy pun limb who was during
32:21the war was on the solid wooden raft and
32:25he pulled Nails out and bent them and
32:27used them for Hooks and was able to get
32:29little fish and then bigger fish and so
32:32who knows I I have no idea but this the
32:34spear gun was my savior really now let's
32:38talk water is like the most essential
32:40that you mentioned of course um you know
32:42if you didn't have that padding your
32:44body would have uh you would have died
32:46from hypothermia because the that would
32:49have just drawn all the heat right out
32:50of your body just to lay on the rubber
32:52but um The Stills you had three Stills
32:56right and two of them failed or you took
32:58one apart yeah I took the first one
32:59apart I had um uh part of that was the
33:03gear that was the extra gear that was
33:05packed in the raft there were two in the
33:06raft fortunately and I had an extra one
33:08in my ditch kit and I tried to use them
33:11these these were I they're difficult to
33:15explain um you know I have diagrams in
33:17the drift and stuff that kind of
33:18explains all this they were produced
33:20during the second world war for pilots
33:22and the idea was if they got down to the
33:24ocean they could set these things up and
33:25produce fresh water but but as far as I
33:28know I mean you know honestly I have
33:30talked about this like you say a zillion
33:33times and to all kinds of
33:36audiences with you know World War II
33:38vets and all of that and I've never read
33:41about or heard anyone who's actually
33:43gotten one to work in the real world you
33:46know they they were great in theory but
33:49you were supposed to float them in the
33:51ocean and that definitely did not work
33:55because the ocean is not like a pool
33:57it's Dynam environment and just like
33:59when the ra I was in in in a in a car
34:02accident in the raft tied to a very
34:04stable boat the raft was very stable
34:06compared to this balloon still that we
34:10go skating off with every wave and come
34:12to the end of its tether and jerk get
34:14jerked and they were they were getting
34:16torn apart and all that and basically
34:19it's like a little atmosphere you drip
34:22you you pour in sea water on the top it
34:24drips through this teeny teeny little
34:25valve onto a black cloth that suspend it
34:28inside the balloon M so the Sun comes
34:30out evaporates the fresh water out of
34:33the sea water off the black cloth and it
34:36collects on the outside or the inside of
34:38this balloon and rains down to a little
34:40collection bag well that's fine in
34:42theory um but all the excess sea water
34:45has to wash through the bottom so it has
34:47a cloth on the bottom cotton cloth when
34:49it's wet is airtight but it's not uh
34:52watertight water will leech through it
34:54but if you like if you're in an
34:55emergency in the water I out of this
34:58shirt I can make a life jacket by making
35:01sure the it's buttoned up all tight like
35:04that and blowing it full of air and
35:06it'll fill up with air so what would
35:09happen with the The Stills though is
35:12every time that we go to the end of the
35:13tether and get get jerked it was
35:16flinging all the salt water out into the
35:19distillate back to the fresh water B so
35:22I was just doing nothing but but
35:24producing salt water So eventually I had
35:26to use it not was directed I cut one one
35:29was got torn and revers almost
35:33impossible to
35:34fix so I decided I'd cut it up and see
35:39how it was constructed and figure out
35:41something and that gave me the idea oh
35:43well I'll just use it not as directed
35:45you know I I have the saying that men
35:47never read directions because they write
35:48the bloody things and we know how bad
35:50they are and so I put it on the on the
35:53raft and I need to keep the bottom this
35:55cloth on the bottom wet so that it would
35:58stay um
36:00airtight uh but then I could use it it
36:03would be stable enough on the raft where
36:05it actually started producing about a
36:07pint a day so you lived on a pint of day
36:10yeah maybe a pint and a quarter I had
36:12almost no rain until the end and by then
36:15they because the the cloth on the bottom
36:18would eventually chafe and wear out not
36:20not only chafe but rot actually so each
36:23still had it had a
36:25lifespan and the two that I got to work
36:29each one had its own personality it had
36:31to be inflated just the right amount
36:33which mean I had to mess around with it
36:35about every 15 minutes
36:38and uh yet they lasted till I can't
36:41remember what day but um fortunately for
36:44most of the voyage and then after that I
36:46had you know I'd saved up stock pretty
36:49carefully and then I had a little bit
36:51more rain and it improved my rain
36:53collection system so it was just enough
36:55but yeah just over a pine a day F in a
36:57quarter maybe something like that plus
37:00whatever fluids I could get out of the
37:01fish you know fish eyes and all these
37:03other Delicacies yeah now do I hope you
37:06have a good sense of humor do you eat
37:08sushi now oh yeah you actually do yeah
37:11not not that actually in in the last few
37:13years I haven't because I had an illness
37:16where I could not eat anything raw for a
37:19long time so I haven't really gotten
37:20back to eating but I don't have a
37:23problem with it no actually I was very
37:25lucky I I I I once in my in the little
37:28logs that I kept you know I I likened uh
37:31my experience to being like in a prison
37:32cell where every every week or so
37:34somebody would open it up and throw me a
37:36big fat filet Min because the the D or
37:40Mahi Mahi as we know them in restaurants
37:42in this in the states are very good fish
37:45yeah and uh so I was very fortunate to
37:47have a a good food source yeah that's
37:50amazing that um and I've heard that like
37:53any debris in the ocean whether it's a
37:56even a PL I bottle will start Gathering
37:59fish will curious you know I've seen
38:02light bulbs have whole little ecosystems
38:04around them that was and when we were
38:06going across the ocean on Napoleon solar
38:08one day it was very light wind and we
38:10saw this like cube of Styrofoam about
38:13you know maybe six inches on a side or
38:15something or other and we're going by it
38:17and there was a fish about a foot long
38:19fish parked underneath it and we picked
38:22up the Styrofoam and the fish was like
38:24freaked out it's like zooming around all
38:26over the place looking for its you know
38:28so we put it back down fish went right
38:30back underneath it yeah yeah yeah yeah
38:32amazing um
38:34so when you were out there um for those
38:3976 days time goes by um how was your
38:43sleeping habits were you actually able
38:45to sleep even though you were very
38:46hungry I was able to sleep but not for
38:49very long I mean the raft on the inside
38:51was a little under six feet across and
38:55so it wasn't quite
38:58wide enough I'm 510 and it wasn't I
39:01couldn't stretch out in it it would like
39:02and it you know you got rubber rubbing
39:04your head at the time I had hair yeah um
39:06maybe that's why you don't yeah maybe I
39:08don't know it was certainly started
39:10right after the voyage but I think that
39:11was a u i don't know nutritional thing
39:14but anyway the uh I would get cramped up
39:17and and whatnot plus I end I developed a
39:20lot of saltwater sores they when you're
39:22in a salt saturated environment uh it's
39:26one thing if you go to the shore and
39:27wash off in the ocean and come home it's
39:29healthy and good for you but if you stay
39:31in a salt and crusted environment these
39:34um they basically start like uh little
39:36pimples on the skin and they break open
39:38you end up with these open ulcers on the
39:40skin and they can be very nasty um I was
39:45pretty yeah very painful because you're
39:47also in a salt encrusted environment so
39:49you're literally having salt rubbed into
39:51the
39:51wounds and I you know every every place
39:54where you know uh I would have a lot of
39:58contact with another surface like my my
40:01rear end
40:03thighs um arms in here you know all that
40:07they would form lots of these so I'd end
40:09up with hundreds of these and it made it
40:11very painful um and but I could sleep
40:15maybe an hour and then I'd wake up which
40:18was good good thing because then I could
40:19kind of look around the Horizon look for
40:21a ship or whatever now did you have any
40:23dreams like that you were at home or
40:25anything like that oh yeah I had lots of
40:26dreams were really big part of the the
40:29voyage and at first I kind of resented
40:31them because it was like yeah you wake
40:34up I wake up I'm still here and it's
40:36like oh God it was like this horrible
40:38Temptation and as the voyage lengthened
40:40then they got got to be precious for me
40:41because well this is the closest I can
40:43get to food or water you know I would
40:45dream about I found it very interesting
40:47that I dreamt about all the foods that
40:50my body actually needed I didn't dream
40:52of proteins I didn't dream no McDonald's
40:55hamburger no steak or anything like that
40:57it was always fruit and breads I needed
41:00starches and sugars and vitamins you
41:03know and my body seemed to know that I
41:05it really and I'm not the first person
41:08to have kind of noticed that that our
41:10bodies seem to have an idea of what they
41:13need and uh and and so that I would
41:16dream about that I would dream about you
41:18know going home about people who meant
41:21something to me about the you know sort
41:23of my ex-wife who I probably did not
41:26treat very well and and you know screwed
41:30up that relationship about all the
41:32things that i' messed up in my life now
41:34what what would you say is is that
41:37something that helped you keep going too
41:39oh yeah absolutely I think it's really
41:41important to survivors that you know you
41:44you could like I say and especially the
41:46recoil period is really dismal because
41:48you beat yourself up so badly it's like
41:50every mistake you made in your life
41:53every failing every shortcoming
41:55everything just like plagues you like
41:56this really really bad b-grade movie
41:58over and over again
42:02and
42:04but it gives you an impetus that uh you
42:08know if I get through this then maybe I
42:12can become a better person for lack of a
42:14better you know did you accurate term
42:18yeah I thought I I was thinking of that
42:20a lot of um there's an there's a funny
42:22saying about someone that was uh a
42:24doctor saved from someone from in and
42:28the guy said I want to pay you anything
42:30you want he goes about half as much as
42:32you would have paid me a few minutes
42:34ago um other there did you actually
42:38those things that you thought of did you
42:39actually fulfill some of them when you
42:42yeah things change you know come when I
42:45came back um you know there there's the
42:48immediate effect in longer term I mean
42:51this was more than half my life ago I
42:53was I'm 65 now was 35 years ago 35 years
42:56ago just a few weeks ago
42:57yeah that you actually when I win a
42:59drift yeah yeah
43:01um so you know like for example as soon
43:06as the voyage was over I was like so
43:08super relaxed I mean I had some problems
43:11I got really ill and and and had some
43:14problems but overall psychologically I
43:16was like super relaxed like H nothing
43:19bothers me nothing bothers me at all and
43:20I found it very amusing that people
43:22would you know when I got home weeks
43:24later and people would go you know oh
43:27well you got to excuse the condition of
43:30my apartment or something like serious
43:33yeah it's not leaking is
43:36it so um that was different but you know
43:39over time we come to um just deal with
43:43day-to-day life like everybody else and
43:45I and moan with the best of them
43:46about all kinds of things you know
43:48politics and all kind all kinds of JN
43:51but at the same time you know like we're
43:53as I say you know I don't think that
43:55we're single dimensional people there is
43:57a part of me that where you know this
43:59experience lives on in me and and and so
44:03I view life through this filter um all
44:06the time uh when I say I'm you know I I
44:10can't know I don't know if I've ever
44:12used the term uh oh we got to eat I'm
44:15starving since that time for example um
44:19uh I I would
44:21take you know you take a shower a bath
44:23and you realize you know I'm using as
44:25much water and you know like a bath fill
44:27up a bathtub with water that's that's
44:28more water than I lived on for two and a
44:30half months and it gives you a different
44:33perspective when you see people who are
44:35actually starving
44:36as difficult although you can't solve
44:39all the world's problem but yeah I think
44:42overall I came back a big I guess
44:45overall the the the biggest um issue for
44:49me uh was that until this point I was I
44:55I had been very introverted as a a kid I
44:57wasn't a people person at all I spent a
44:59lot of my life I was comfortable like in
45:01Wilderness environments mhm and I had a
45:06few close friends but I wasn't really
45:08gregarious or anything like that and I
45:11didn't think I needed people very much
45:12and when I left the states I think that
45:14was a big a big part of it was like oh
45:16people are so problematic which we are
45:19but through the experience I I came to
45:23realize that whether I liked it or not I
45:25was not a sea creature see I was
45:27surrounded by them and they were a lot
45:28more adapted than I was it wasn't really
45:31my environment whether I liked it or not
45:33I was a person and I had to somehow come
45:36to embrace my own humanity and that of
45:39other people despite our problems and I
45:42think I did do that you know I came back
45:43I've had you
45:45know Kathy my my my wife is you know was
45:50a friend when I left and you know we
45:53started started living together as a
45:55matter of um convenience actually cuz
45:57but neither of us had anything back in
46:001982 and we just never left so you know
46:04I'm hoping that I'm a I'm better at at
46:08relationships than than I was excuse me
46:11that was that was a really important
46:12thing for me yeah yeah yeah I can see um
46:16now how long would you have been in this
46:19rft floating before people realized that
46:21you were actually missing about a month
46:25so people did realize at that point yeah
46:27a month into it yeah was there any type
46:29of search at all well they
46:32were my parents actually went through
46:35quite a um an extended attempt to get a
46:39search going but the fact of the matter
46:41is unless the you know the Coast Guard
46:44has an approximate position uh they're
46:47not going to look for you in the middle
46:49of the ocean it's just like too Mighty
46:50big you mean whereever they even start
46:53um but they had problems through the
46:56Coast Guard getting the Coast Guard to
46:58kind of acknowledge even that I was gone
47:01you know first they refused oh you got
47:03to prove to us that you know he actually
47:05left from this place they had to you
47:07know get correspondence sent into him
47:09and whatnot and then they could do a
47:11notice to Mariners that I was overdue so
47:13that ships and whatnot could kind of
47:15keep an eye out um but there was never
47:19going to be an act you know an actual
47:21search in the middle of the ocean for me
47:23and that's changed a bit because the the
47:27you know just the technology is moved
47:29forward I had this thing called an eerb
47:31which is a basically an emergency radio
47:33that sends out an an SOS not actually
47:36but it sends out an emergency message
47:40and at the time they were only being
47:41monitored by aircraft and the aircraft
47:43had to be pretty close to your position
47:45so I and I was just in a pretty empty
47:47part of the Atlantic and now they're all
47:49being I'm sorry they're all being
47:51monitored by um satellite well they have
47:55like the different equipment now that
47:57was going to be one of the questions I
47:58was going to ask you like if you were in
48:00today's world this wouldn't have
48:02happened basically right with all the
48:04technology they have no not necessarily
48:06true people go missing still people
48:08still drift off and it's something
48:11that's you know
48:13even even if um let's say you have a a
48:18perfectly working modern eer that's
48:20picked up by satellite there's still no
48:22guarantee somebody's going to be able to
48:23reach you before the battery goes off or
48:27they're still over 90% false alarms
48:29anyway and you know they have their own
48:31problems and malfunctions and and this
48:33and that but there are a lot of parts of
48:35the world a huge chunk of the world
48:39where it's just really empty and you
48:44know nobody's people are days away from
48:47you even if they know you're there and
48:49they're steaming straight for you as
48:50quickly as they can plus add on to that
48:53that there's a lot of the world that has
48:55no search and rescue facilities of any
48:58sort especially compared to the United
49:00States I mean we're spoiled here you
49:01know we think oh Coast Guard's there
49:03yeah and you know even they have
49:06difficulty keeping up with things and
49:08especially if they get budget cuts in
49:10the near future yeah that's true uh so
49:13um it's really when you go offshore you
49:16have to go with the attitude that you
49:18know if if if you get yourself into
49:20trouble and somebody gets you out of it
49:22you're one very lucky camper that you
49:25really have to rely upon your yourself
49:27right now have you spoken to anyone
49:29that's had a similar experience you know
49:31personally spoken to people yeah yeah
49:34sure Bill Butler who was with his wife
49:36in the Pacific for 68 days I believe wow
49:40uh just after me and I've talked to
49:42other ocean survivors of different
49:44things the guy who was on a boat that
49:47crashed into the galpagos islands who
49:49was there for I think 10 days um and
49:53although that's you know people get
49:54focused on period length of time but
49:56that's really not the issue they were
49:58the boat was gone they had absolutely
50:00nothing they got off the boat in the
50:01middle of the night with only their
50:03underwear they you know it's a volcanic
50:05island they were all cut up in to no
50:08shade at all it was just you know so
50:11I've talked to a lot of survivors over
50:13the years both Oceanic and otherwise you
50:15know the guys who were um in the in the
50:18U the Andy plane crash um that led to
50:22the book the book and the film alive and
50:26just lots of people in all kinds of
50:28situations
50:30fishermen uh yeah quite a few now I I I
50:35reordered your book and um you know
50:37because I couldn't find my 1986 copy
50:39uhuh and I saw that you it was a recent
50:42printing Fair 2005 or something I can't
50:44remember but in it you were saying that
50:47you know you were a little bit upset
50:49that some people thought you were a hero
50:50you didn't think you were a hero no no
50:53no I I don't know I'm not sure who are
50:55heroes really really because you know
50:57you talk to military guys who've been
50:59through horrendous situations who you
51:02know who's you know maybe the sole
51:04survivor one a few survivors when all
51:06their mates are gone and all virtually
51:10to a person people who go through this
51:13stuff come back they go I'm no hero yeah
51:15you know the heroes of the guys who got
51:16left over there I I wrote the book in
51:19part um to give people a voice who were
51:23a lot more SM lot smarter more adaptable
51:26than me who never made it back wow yeah
51:29that's quite a statement um when so um
51:34how long did it take you after you were
51:36well I want to talk about your rescue
51:37and all that too but how long did it
51:39take you before you were actually behind
51:41the helm again sailing oh that was
51:44pretty quick really yeah yeah as I tell
51:47people I'm a very slow learner uh but
51:50you didn't do a solo like a big solo the
51:52next year did you really yeah I I
51:55singlehanded boat to Bermuda in a
51:57single-handed race I had to get back up
51:59on the horse but you know when I got
52:01when I got to land people were very kind
52:04to me um and really kind of adopted me
52:08and took care of me and my parents came
52:10down but it was kind of weird because I
52:12was 30 years old I'd been a very
52:14independent guy even when I was in from
52:17the time I was a baby I think I was very
52:20independent guy and certainly when as
52:23soon as I got out of school it wasn't
52:25like you know I know a lot of kids go
52:26home and live with their parents now you
52:28know back in that era we were all
52:31waiting to get out of the house and uh
52:33and so I'd been very independent for a
52:35long long time and of course lived kind
52:38of this um you know ultimate
52:40Independence for two and a half months
52:43really a year while I was on
52:46solo and came back and it was like every
52:49I had no control over my life MH so I
52:52needed to kind of have reclaim my life
52:54and people had heard about me when I
52:56landed uh through the coconut grap Vine
52:59you know VHF radios and whatnot so
53:02Sailors would stop by the island and
53:04they were really sweet you know they'd
53:06bring me you know a banana bread or this
53:10or that you know and and that was lovely
53:12and a and a boat stopped in
53:15and um there was a guy on board I had
53:18known I a photographer who I had met
53:20through the sailing circuit and they
53:22were making a film on using it as a
53:25movie boat and uh and the boat was owned
53:28by a guy in New in in
53:31England so they gave me a ride off the
53:33island I and I started hitchhiking up
53:35through the through the islands I I was
53:38pretty useless as crew because I at the
53:39time I my legs looked like I had
53:42elephantiasis I was gaining like a kilo
53:45a day mostly water which was being
53:47retained and it was it took over six
53:49weeks before I could kind of walk do you
53:53have any long-term effects from this oh
53:56it's impossible to know yeah I mean I've
53:59had health issues in recent years
54:00whether they're tied to that or not is a
54:03mystery unless they actually dissect you
54:04when you come back they can't really
54:06examine you know um organ failure organ
54:10problems and stuff like that but um it's
54:13possible like I say you know when I got
54:16back after a few month you know there
54:18things that happen in Starvation like
54:20they're definitive lines that are on
54:22your fingernails as they grow out from
54:25Mal nutrition exactly you know my hair
54:27started falling out like by the handfuls
54:31within a very short time after I came
54:33back so I felt like it it it changed my
54:35metabolism it kind of kicked me into the
54:37middle age yeah yeah sure I felt like it
54:40gave me about 10 years yeah yeah um when
54:43you were uh out there just before you
54:46got rescued did you think um you
54:49couldn't last much longer I mean how how
54:52much longer do you think you could have
54:53survived I really have no idea no idea
54:56no idea but you prepared to keep going
54:58however long well it's it it it varied a
55:01lot through the length of the day um you
55:05know at the beginning of the voyage it
55:06was like I I'll never make it I can't
55:08even make it to the shipping Lan there's
55:09no freaking way I've got like a chance
55:11in millions of even making the shipping
55:12lanes not to mention all the way across
55:15but this often H this is also a very
55:17common feeling among survivors when we
55:20first are in the situation it's like
55:22there's no way I can do this and then
55:24slowly you get into that period that
55:26that follows recoil into adaptation once
55:29you adapt to the environment it's like
55:31well as long as nothing horrible goes
55:34wrong I can keep doing this forever but
55:37as my Voyage went uh lengthened of
55:40course you know raft and gear we get
55:42broken and break down and it was like
55:44well if the raft fails then I'm done and
55:49you know it really was difficult to know
55:52and then the big problem for me was
55:55staying conscious during the day it was
55:57grueling it was hot hot hot um and if I
56:02fell asleep during the day then I'd wake
56:05up and realize that the solar still had
56:08screwed up because I hadn't dealt with
56:10it and I it was like losing a day's
56:13worth of water or something so it was a
56:16huge struggle I call it the afternoon
56:18Bake Off the the afternoons were just
56:20rugged and horrible and then and you
56:22didn't have any cover left I did have
56:24there's like a tint over the raft so I
56:26could get in shade but the shade itself
56:29wasn't exactly the problem you get hot
56:31inside there and and I I could have you
56:35know even though there was an opening
56:36and whatnot and I pour water over myself
56:38and stand up so that the breeze would
56:40kind of flash dry and me and be cooler
56:43and whatnot but it it still was it was
56:47just unbelievably difficult and I would
56:49go I don't I don't know if I can make
56:51this another day and then slowly the sun
56:54would set and I'm drifting West and I'd
56:56look out my sort of triangular picture
56:58window at the Sunset and The Dru would
57:01start coming around the raft again and
57:04things would be relatively peaceful and
57:06I have a little bike to eat and a
57:08swallow of water and it's like I made it
57:11through that day and things AR aren't
57:14feeling that bad so I think I can do
57:17this another day but I really had no
57:18idea yeah yeah amazing um someone in the
57:22chat room U wanted to know if you saw
57:24anything unusual this person spends a
57:27lot of time at Sea and always uh sees
57:29beautiful and unusual things fish
57:31watercolor Etc anything anything unusual
57:34at all while you were out there
57:36everything kind of really uh Kathy says
57:39for her the Crux of of a drift which was
57:41taken from my log it was um this is a
57:44view of Heaven from a seat in Hell which
57:46was one wow written one night you know
57:49cuz there you know we think of Big Sky
57:50country there's no bigger Sky Country
57:52Than The Ocean yeah and it it it is
57:55truly aw awesome and I you know I know
57:57that's an overused word but sometimes
58:00it's
58:01just yeah it just knocks your socks off
58:04it's just amazing and there are things
58:08um that you know the fish to me were I
58:12don't know Godly if you will um like I
58:15said they were you really my superiors
58:17in that domain and I greatly respected
58:19them they were beautiful gorgeous and I
58:21just loved watching them and at night
58:25they would ga gather around the raft and
58:28floating through the raft and and I'm
58:30sure your your your um your guest here
58:33is uh is has seen the amazing
58:37bioluminesence it see you know it's
58:40something like 98% of of plantonic life
58:44bioluminesence and when you brush your
58:46hand through the water it's like
58:48creating galaxies and you know that
58:51stuff is really magical and so when the
58:53fish are following around raft you know
58:54I'm looking out they're all
58:56slowly gliding with the raft and they're
58:58all glowing like silver platters and
59:01stuff like I you know I saw rainbows
59:03inside of rainbows and you know just
59:07amazing stuff that's why I say you know
59:09there's a part of you in in this
59:12experience that doesn't want to you know
59:15you know you never want to go back to
59:16the experience but there are things you
59:19witness along the way that you could and
59:22things that you become aware of both
59:24internally and externally that you could
59:27never have captured in any other way so
59:31I think that's why it's very common for
59:33survivors not to regret their
59:35experiences that they actually give us a
59:37huge amount at the same time if we're
59:39lucky enough to get through the other
59:40end yeah now just a couple more things I
59:42want to talk to before we get to the end
59:44here and the and basically the day you
59:46were found um but one of them how uh how
59:51distraught were you when you the the
59:53ships went by and they oh my God I can't
59:57even imagine I was pretty distraught but
1:00:00I honestly I was I was not that
1:00:04surprised and um I was more angry with
1:00:09myself like the first ship that passed
1:00:10me by um the D had W well first of all
1:00:15I'd been awakened earlier in the night
1:00:17because these sharks would come up and
1:00:19it was like a shark would trapped a d
1:00:22underneath the raft and was bashing it
1:00:23around bashing the raft around in the
1:00:25middle of the night and it was pretty
1:00:27pretty
1:00:28freaky and then um I
1:00:32finally drove the shark away and I don't
1:00:35know a couple hours later the D another
1:00:37data started flopping around and I was
1:00:39like immediately leapt up and I looked
1:00:43out and there was a ship and I I I had a
1:00:46whole arsenal of flares fire beautiful
1:00:48flare you know parachutes the best
1:00:50flares possible and I thought the ship
1:00:54would look like change course a little
1:00:56wishful thinking I think there and it
1:00:59started steaming it looked like it was
1:01:01steaming right at me and i' fired you
1:01:04know a bunch of flares at it and it just
1:01:05went steaming right by and it was close
1:01:07enough that I could smell diesel you
1:01:09know and you know you're riding the
1:01:11weight after it goes by and stuff and I
1:01:14was like oh my God and I was I was I was
1:01:18angry but not at the ship I was really
1:01:20angry with myself because I had you know
1:01:23I I I was acting on hopes rather than
1:01:27reality and um I I drank too much I
1:01:32drank water really yeah and I you
1:01:35thought you're going to be rescued I
1:01:36thought that's this is it I'm rescued I
1:01:37can drink this water that was you know
1:01:39and then and I used way too many
1:01:42flares um so you know I I had been at
1:01:46Sea enough to realize how difficult it
1:01:48is for people to see you even if they
1:01:50know you're there and they're looking
1:01:51for you not to mention just like your
1:01:54average commercial which is especially a
1:01:57night might have a couple of guys on but
1:01:59they might be in the radio room or out
1:02:01on the other side of the ship taking a
1:02:02smoke or God knows what
1:02:04and uh I had read all kinds of
1:02:09survival uh books before all you know
1:02:12all the the famous ones anyway and it
1:02:14was very common for people to be missed
1:02:15by ships and wow so it it wasn't a
1:02:18surprise and in the end of course the
1:02:20voyage I ran out of functional flares
1:02:23and all of that the last one that passed
1:02:24me by just kind of glanced at it it was
1:02:27way off in the distance anyway and uh
1:02:30that that was the ninth ship that passed
1:02:32me oh my God now um we talked early on
1:02:36we talked about all the different ways
1:02:37you could have
1:02:38died um if you didn't have the fork can
1:02:41you talk about that that s yeah I I'd
1:02:44had a little party for myself on the
1:02:4538th day because duel Robertson and his
1:02:47family had lived 38 days in the Pacific
1:02:49and wrote a amazing book called survive
1:02:52the Savage seas and it was very
1:02:54inspirational to all ocean
1:02:56survivors because they were very
1:03:00overcrowded in this teeny little dinghy
1:03:03essentially they' had a inflated raft
1:03:05which malfunctioned and so they could
1:03:07keep half of it functioning but the you
1:03:09know wrapping around the dingy but there
1:03:11was this whole family and this dingy
1:03:14and they had to be very inventive in
1:03:17order to survive um with how they caught
1:03:21you know fish and all this stuff and he
1:03:24had written the survival manual that I
1:03:26carried in my raft which was very very
1:03:28useful and I probably read it a 100
1:03:30times wow and so for me to come up to DG
1:03:36Robertson's days was reason for
1:03:40celebration I the raft was still
1:03:42together and my gear was functioning and
1:03:44I learned to live off the environment
1:03:46and all that stuff and then just 5 days
1:03:49later I was spearing I speared a Doro
1:03:53and they're pretty big powerful fish and
1:03:55and once again it wasn't the first time
1:03:57that it kind of broken the spear but
1:03:59this time it broke the actually snapped
1:04:01the shaft right in half didn't just bend
1:04:03it or strip off some other part of it
1:04:07and it it the fish turned around and
1:04:09rammed the two rammed the point of the
1:04:12spear into the bottom tube and made a a
1:04:15rip and uh so that was horrible
1:04:20situation that took me to the lowest
1:04:21point in the voyage it took me about 10
1:04:23days to figure out a fix for it and and
1:04:25it was critical that I fixed it because
1:04:27with the bottom tube deflated it was
1:04:30like the bottom of the raft became a
1:04:32like a jellyfish dragging through the
1:04:34water uh the raft wasn't yeah I had
1:04:38almost no freeboard then because losing
1:04:40the shape of the raft with this you know
1:04:42pressure pushing up in the bottom I
1:04:44actually lost all but a couple inches
1:04:46two three inches of freeboard that meant
1:04:49you know all these normal waves you know
1:04:51they're kind of coming by and I was wet
1:04:53a lot and plus it was hard to work it
1:04:56tend to the solar stills the fish to do
1:04:59anything so it took me a long time to
1:05:02figure that out and I tried and tried
1:05:04and tried again and I was just really I
1:05:07was just beat I was totally beat and you
1:05:10had a pump obviously I did have a pump I
1:05:13could pump it up and I I would make
1:05:14these patches and stuff but they would
1:05:16blow out you know after a short while
1:05:18wave Little Wave hits or something or
1:05:20other and it would dislodge things and
1:05:22they blow out again and I tried external
1:05:25pressure patches and as hard as I could
1:05:28tie you know put a plug in the in the
1:05:30mouth if you will and tie it around it
1:05:32and stuff but it didn't matter it just
1:05:34would fail and it just drove me nuts and
1:05:38finally I really came close to just
1:05:41giving up and didn't think I had any
1:05:43strength and then I you know forced
1:05:45myself when it the it
1:05:47really came home that I I wasn't just
1:05:50talking about this this I I was going to
1:05:52be dead pretty soon if I didn't figure
1:05:54out something it scared me and I I kind
1:05:58of oh okay go through what do you got in
1:06:00the raft and stuff like that and in my
1:06:02ditch kit I had some stuff that's you
1:06:05know I might use on the boat like extra
1:06:07fittings for the rudder and stuff like
1:06:09that and and I had a a utensil kit in
1:06:13there I I don't know why I had the
1:06:15stainless steel utensil kit like Boy
1:06:17Scout utensil kit right but it was there
1:06:20and it dawned on me oh oh I got this oh
1:06:24I know what I and I real realiz then
1:06:26which which is often the case that we
1:06:28have to do more damage to something in
1:06:31order to to find the fix uh companies do
1:06:37this routinely they find that they have
1:06:39to take a hit they got to bite the
1:06:41bullet and Destroy something in order to
1:06:44make the company right again right and
1:06:46we have to do this in a personal level
1:06:48sometimes too and in my case that had
1:06:51happened early on in the raft have
1:06:52little teeny holes in the bottom of the
1:06:54raft well they're too hard to
1:06:56too small to put a plug in and they were
1:07:00constantly shooting water little geysers
1:07:01of water so I had to actually increase
1:07:03the size of these holes in order to
1:07:05patch them and this was a similar case
1:07:08where I figured ah I know I'll TI the
1:07:10lips put a plug in and then I'll cut
1:07:13slits and lips and put a pin through so
1:07:16the handle to a fork was the answer to
1:07:18all my problems and once I figured that
1:07:21out um like I said I'm a very slow
1:07:23learner if I figured this out day one it
1:07:25would have made things a lot easier but
1:07:27it gave me a something solid I could
1:07:29really lash around and the lashings
1:07:31couldn't be forced off or anything like
1:07:32that and the bottom tube ended up
1:07:34holding ear better than the top tube for
1:07:36the rest of the voyage so I was you know
1:07:39that the whole survival Voyage is an arc
1:07:41of it's like normal life on steroids as
1:07:44we say you know because the highs are
1:07:45incredibly High and the lows are
1:07:47incredibly low and they're packed
1:07:49together you know so you know you you
1:07:52you you fail at something and you it's
1:07:54the end of your world and then you find
1:07:56a solution like that and I was like oh
1:07:59I'm the king of the world now yeah now
1:08:01if you went back in time obviously you
1:08:04survived so that's totally amazing but
1:08:06if you went back with all the technology
1:08:08that there was then and there um would
1:08:12you have done anything different or do
1:08:14you think you pretty much had everything
1:08:16you
1:08:19needed well different yeah I probably
1:08:22would have built the boat a little bit
1:08:23differently mhm uh changed the design
1:08:26when I got home you know things like
1:08:27that the pre-impact stage yeah
1:08:30[Music]
1:08:32um I don't know I was I was very well
1:08:35prepared for the era uh with equipment
1:08:38and stuff and um I suppose had I gone to
1:08:43survival training specific survival
1:08:46training uh that might have helped in
1:08:49some way but there really wasn't much in
1:08:51that time anyway yeah um
1:08:55I think that if I had carried a handheld
1:08:59VHF radio in a waterproof pouch I could
1:09:01have S I could have probably spoken to
1:09:03one of the ships one of the early ships
1:09:05that passed me by and that was a piece
1:09:07of gear I suggested people have after I
1:09:10got back which actually helped a mate of
1:09:12mine get rescued the next fall um things
1:09:17like that I I don't know overall you
1:09:20know overall I had to say when
1:09:23when when I landed I was a little proud
1:09:26of myself to say you know I didn't think
1:09:28I could do this and I did do it so um it
1:09:32it gave me a reassurance that I'd never
1:09:34really had before in life but could I
1:09:36have done better absolutely and and you
1:09:38know people will put you in your place
1:09:40especially kids like I did a radio I did
1:09:43a radio show I often tell this story uh
1:09:46I did a radio show called kids America
1:09:49and you know I think the kids were about
1:09:5110 years old and uh after I got back and
1:09:55and so this uh young this young man gets
1:09:58on and he's asking me he says you know I
1:10:00read your book and I said yeah and and
1:10:03he goes but I'm a little confused here
1:10:04and you know you complain that you
1:10:06couldn't catch the fish with a with a
1:10:08with a line and I explained do you no no
1:10:10they just like you know bit the line off
1:10:12and then I found a piece of wire and and
1:10:15he goes yeah yeah you said that do you
1:10:16have no more wire with you and I said
1:10:19yeah and he goes but you say earlier in
1:10:21the book that there's a light on the top
1:10:23of the raft when you first get into it
1:10:24and I said yeah and he goes well you
1:10:27explained that that was there was a
1:10:29battery that gets submerged in seawater
1:10:32and turns the light on yeah and he goes
1:10:35well isn't there a piece of wire that
1:10:37goes between 10-year-old yeah un so so
1:10:42yes I could have done better that's
1:10:44that's great when a kid says something
1:10:46like that how how great is that wow um
1:10:49let's talk about um the last day that
1:10:52you were now I I remember
1:10:55I believe uh now this is going all the
1:10:57way back to when I read the book uh the
1:10:59first time because I didn't finish this
1:11:01time and but if I remember right you
1:11:04kind of wake up and you see like fishing
1:11:06boats near you or something no they're
1:11:08not quite fishing boats you know I when
1:11:11you're at Sea you often see you know
1:11:14glows and they're often you know a ship
1:11:16or something just Down Under The Horizon
1:11:20and when you're in in you know closer to
1:11:23land a lot of times you'll see a bunch
1:11:26of of glows and sometimes those are land
1:11:28lights sometimes they're like offshore
1:11:30fishing
1:11:31fleets and so I was seeing the glow I I
1:11:34on the 75th night I um you know I keep
1:11:37waking up and oh what are those lights
1:11:41those glows there and I kept you know I
1:11:43I navigated I actually was pretty good
1:11:45with my navigation in the end um but I
1:11:48didn't have any faith in myself that I
1:11:51was I was like oh I'm doing this as an
1:11:53exercise but I kept expecting to see
1:11:55land and so it wasn't unexpected to to
1:11:58to to to see land but I thought well I
1:12:02don't know I should have seen land days
1:12:04ago and I don't know maybe I've drifted
1:12:06you know between the islands maybe I'm
1:12:08way farther north than I think I was and
1:12:10I'm you know next stop is England I get
1:12:12stra caught up in the Gulf Stream but
1:12:14there are definitely lights up there and
1:12:17after waking up a couple of times and
1:12:19the lights are still there you realize
1:12:21there's something going on so maybe it's
1:12:23a fishing fleet or whatever and and
1:12:25finally I don't know middle of the night
1:12:27sometime um I start seeing the loom of a
1:12:30lighthouse you know this pulse a
1:12:32distinct pulse so I said that's it
1:12:34that's not a fishing fleet that's on a
1:12:36rock someplace and so the next morning
1:12:40um at first light I could see that I was
1:12:42actually a lot closer to the island than
1:12:45I thought I was I could see a big island
1:12:47to the back big mountainous Island to
1:12:48the back another one kind of the South a
1:12:50little bit and the one right ahead of me
1:12:52was a lower Island but was probably five
1:12:55miles 5 10 miles at most I could see
1:12:59little buildings I could see a a
1:13:03beach um but it would have been an
1:13:06incredibly dangerous Landing because
1:13:09outside of the beach you know it's
1:13:10Caribbean so there was a reef outside
1:13:12the beach probably half mile outside of
1:13:14that and the whole northern part of the
1:13:15island was Coral Cliffs with 3,000 miles
1:13:18of ocean swell smashing against it so I
1:13:22started
1:13:23preparing um for a either a difficult
1:13:26Landing or if possible to guide myself
1:13:28around the south side of the island and
1:13:30get around the the the beach and stuff
1:13:33and land on the lured side of the island
1:13:35somehow and as I was doing so I started
1:13:38hearing an engine and I poke my head up
1:13:41and there's a local open fishing boat
1:13:43about 25 ft um and three guys in it
1:13:47steaming out to me so I was like and
1:13:49they wave so I've been seeing you know
1:13:52that was so that was it and as it turned
1:13:55out
1:13:57um you know the D like I said the D are
1:14:00really the heroes of the story The the
1:14:03fish
1:14:04they were um my
1:14:09sustenance uh they really were my more
1:14:12than friends I mean I you know I really
1:14:14think I came to understand uh a lot of
1:14:17cultures that live very close to the
1:14:19environment especially you know hunting
1:14:21Gathering cultures and stuff and how
1:14:24they look at the natural world that to
1:14:26me they were you know the extensions of
1:14:28God or God or whatever and so they were
1:14:32very spiritual to me too and at one
1:14:35point they you know they certainly saved
1:14:38my life they also almost killed me MH
1:14:40but in the end they brought my salvation
1:14:42because the D the school of D this whole
1:14:45ecosystem that developed as it got
1:14:47closer to land Drew Birds to it um so
1:14:51these frig birds were hovering above the
1:14:53raft and the fisherman or smart guy guys
1:14:55they have what a friend of mine calls
1:14:56natural literacy they look at the real
1:14:59world out there and they say these birds
1:15:01are telling us that there's something
1:15:02under there so they came out and to find
1:15:05fish and there I was in the middle of
1:15:07them wow I bet you looked pretty at the
1:15:10time too oh I was gorgeous I at least
1:15:13had a great
1:15:14tan now um this is such an amazing Story
1:15:18how long did it take you to actually be
1:15:21able to eat regular food that must have
1:15:23been very difficult to start I wasn't
1:15:25actually um no um i' lost about a third
1:15:29of my weight which is very common ocean
1:15:31survivors who've been a drift um even
1:15:34more than a few weeks um you lose a lot
1:15:37of weight right away your metabolism
1:15:38changes as starvation metabolism and so
1:15:42you absorb you know your energy level
1:15:44decreases but your body is using less
1:15:46and less energy so you lose most of the
1:15:48weight right away and then it kind of
1:15:49flattens out so I lost about a third and
1:15:53I got a shore um and they took me they
1:15:57took me across the island to the
1:15:58hospital there and this doctor came out
1:16:01and he kind of looks in at me and you
1:16:03know what am I supposed to do with you
1:16:05kind of thing and um so I when I got
1:16:09into got into the room um the doctor
1:16:12says well we're going to give you some
1:16:13antibiotics to help you clear up all
1:16:15these saltwater stores and and stuff and
1:16:18uh and we're going to give you an IV
1:16:21feed you know uh because you know we
1:16:24don't want to give you solid food and I
1:16:25said oh wait right there you know I I've
1:16:28been eating not large amounts but I've
1:16:31been eating pretty regularly I think I
1:16:34can handle solid food so they gave you
1:16:35know they brought in this tray of
1:16:37amazing you know fruit crops and
1:16:39starches and vitamins and stuff all my
1:16:42my body just craved as well as little
1:16:44square salted fish which I thought was
1:16:46pretty amusing I hate that too but yeah
1:16:50and then you know I didn't stay in the
1:16:51hospital the um there was an
1:16:53anesthesiologist there French you know
1:16:55it's French West Indies I landed this
1:16:57island regalan just off of gual and the
1:17:01anesthesiologist spoke English and she
1:17:03heard that I was in the hospital so she
1:17:05and her husband invited me back to their
1:17:07house that evening and she made
1:17:08Ratatouille and all this stuff and I I
1:17:12don't know I started eating like a pig
1:17:14bet but my body just you know it's
1:17:16Creole food it's real Creole food too so
1:17:19after a couple of days I just I got
1:17:22really sick it's you know going out of
1:17:24coming out of boat
1:17:25and I got very very ill for a while it
1:17:27took me a while to recover from that you
1:17:29know immed you know for the first 10
1:17:31days or so I was gaining a kilo a day
1:17:33but most of it was water and because I
1:17:36had high sodium level and really low
1:17:38potassium level that my body wasn't
1:17:40ridding itself of any of these fluids
1:17:42and it was all sinking to my legs and
1:17:44feet yeah you're still on starvation
1:17:46mode basically a part of your body is
1:17:48anyway yeah I'm sure yeah um two more
1:17:51questions and one is uh probably a
1:17:53strange one but if some someone actually
1:17:55heard this show and they're out at Sea
1:17:57and they're stranded like you were is
1:17:58there anything you would say to them to
1:18:01help them is there any words you can
1:18:02think
1:18:04of
1:18:06um give yourself be very patient with
1:18:09yourself and the world and
1:18:13um try not to obsess too much on the
1:18:17overall goal keep it in mind but try to
1:18:21pay attention
1:18:22to small achiev able bites that add up
1:18:27to the overall goal um I think almost
1:18:30all survivors do this they you know the
1:18:33guy who falls into the crass and
1:18:35touching the void I'm sure you're famili
1:18:37a lot of people are familiar with that
1:18:38falls into the creat amazing and he
1:18:41knows he's got to get down the mount but
1:18:42what is he focusing on he's focusing on
1:18:45getting to the next rock down the hill
1:18:47right and that's what you got to do um
1:18:51and
1:18:52hopefully it'll stack up into to enough
1:18:55time and you'll make your way out you
1:18:56know that's what I looked at you know
1:18:58I'm looking at my watch all the time and
1:19:00the seconds are ticking by ever so
1:19:02slowly but I realize every one of those
1:19:03clicks is a click closer to Salvation
1:19:07wow wow amazing uh um we could end on
1:19:11that but I also wanted to ask you but I
1:19:13think you kind of answered it what's the
1:19:15best thing that came out of this whole
1:19:17terrible situation my life a nice it's
1:19:22great well thanks so much it's been uh
1:19:25you've been inspiring to me for 35 years
1:19:28well about that 30 some OD years since I
1:19:30read your book way back well you're a
1:19:32cheap date
1:19:33yeah and uh it's funny I I you know the
1:19:36internet has changed everything and it
1:19:38was you know prior to internet I would
1:19:40have never been able to find you I found
1:19:42you online yeah and you're you're uh
1:19:45approachable so I thought it was it was
1:19:47very nice well I appreciate your
1:19:49interest and the the interest of your L
1:19:53listeners Watchers and everybody
1:19:56who's picked up a drift and found
1:19:59anything in it that you know to me you
1:20:01know Kathy and I don't have kids and the
1:20:04closest thing people like us have to
1:20:06kids are what we produce that go out in
1:20:10the world and have their own lives as
1:20:12far as I'm concerned the drift is very
1:20:14much like a kid who's now 35 years old
1:20:17and has created its own life thanks to
1:20:21not thanks to me so much but the people
1:20:22who see themselves in
1:20:25yeah so I I appreciate everybody who U
1:20:28is out there doing their thing reading a
1:20:30drift and struggling to survive we're
1:20:32all in the same boat really that's right
1:20:34all right all right so that's it for the
1:20:37show everyone thanks so much for
1:20:39listening and uh we'll be back uh next
1:20:42week and you know what I can't remember
1:20:44who my guest is next week but uh check
1:20:47back or check on the website you'll see
1:20:48it there um I really enjoyed the show
1:20:51today and thanks so much for listening
1:20:56[Music]

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