Steve Jobs Interview - 2/18/1981 — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:02we have to
2. 0:04presume any time we do a story that that
3. 0:07most of the audience hasn't that any
4. 0:08time you introduce
5. 0:10any subject or any topic or any any big
6. 0:13word really
7. 0:15that you have to familiarize the
8. 0:16audience you were talking about 60
9. 0:17minutes uh they
10. 0:18they do the same thing harry reisner did
11. 0:21a piece on
12. 0:23some guy who was a card counter playing
13. 0:25blackjack a couple of weeks ago
14. 0:27and they spent about three minutes in
15. 0:28the context of the story
16. 0:31establishing how to play blackjack right
17. 0:33just uh the fact that you have to uh
18. 0:35sure go for 20 yeah for 21. so yeah
19. 0:38that's
20. 0:38we make this an interesting thing about
21. 0:40television is it always she
22. 0:42seems to shoot for the lowest common
23. 0:43denominator
24. 0:45uh stephen to get a two-shot that we
25. 0:47need it sounds a little peculiar but
26. 0:49you can't and it'll be painless and over
27. 0:52quickly
28. 0:53great thank you i could embrace him if
29. 0:55you wish no
30. 0:57the reason they take these two shots is
31. 0:59because they they do all this market
32. 1:01research on
33. 1:02on television and they you know they go
34. 1:03into a shopping center and grab
35. 1:0650 viewers and put them in a trailer and
36. 1:08show them tapes
37. 1:09and to try to find out what they like
38. 1:11and what they don't what bothers them
39. 1:12and what doesn't one of the things that
40. 1:14they found
41. 1:14bothered viewers was in the typical
42. 1:17nightly just like to see
43. 1:19um the environment that you're talking
44. 1:21and so hence the
45. 1:23the wide shot yes
46. 1:27is it over yeah
47. 1:34steve when you began to develop this
48. 1:37five years ago what sort of need did you
49. 1:40see
50. 1:41that existed then that you felt these
51. 1:43computers was going to
52. 1:44fill well basically
53. 1:47the quest are we actually doing this now
54. 1:49oh great the question is
55. 1:51is really what is a personal computer
56. 1:54and why is it different than all the
57. 1:55other computers that have existed
58. 1:56throughout history
59. 1:59probably the best way to explain that is
60. 2:00through an analogy when you look at the
61. 2:02invention of the first electric motor in
62. 2:04the late 1800s it was only possible to
63. 2:06build a very large one
64. 2:08and it was very very expensive and
65. 2:09therefore it could only be cost
66. 2:10justified for the most expensive
67. 2:12or large applications and the electric
68. 2:16motor really took its next step in
69. 2:17proliferation when somebody hooked a
70. 2:19long shaft to it and ran it down the
71. 2:20center of a factory through series of
72. 2:22belts and pulleys brought that power
73. 2:24down
74. 2:24to maybe 15 or 20 individual
75. 2:26workstations thereby cost justifying
76. 2:28sharing that horsepower among some
77. 2:31medium-sized applications
78. 2:33but the electric motor really achieved a
79. 2:35true proliferation in the society with
80. 2:37the invention of the fractional
81. 2:38horsepower electric motor
82. 2:39and at that point the horsepower could
83. 2:41be brought directly to where it was
84. 2:42needed
85. 2:43on a personal scale cost justified for a
86. 2:45small number of things
87. 2:47and we see the same thing the same
88. 2:49evolution if we examine the history of
89. 2:51computing the first computer
90. 2:52eniac in 1946 was designed primarily for
91. 2:56weather and ballistic calculations very
92. 2:58large tasks
93. 3:00and the next revolution in computing was
94. 3:01in the 1960s with the invention of
95. 3:03what's called time
96. 3:04sharing in essence sharing one of these
97. 3:06very large computers with maybe 40 or 50
98. 3:08terminals scattered through a company
99. 3:10and thereby cost justifying it for
100. 3:12medium-sized applications
101. 3:14what we think the personal computer
102. 3:16industry is about is the invention of
103. 3:17the fractional horsepower computer
104. 3:19something that can be cost justified on
105. 3:21the personal level something that weighs
106. 3:2312 pounds that you can throw out the
107. 3:24window if you don't like
108. 3:25and it's really changing the way that
109. 3:27people interact with computers there's a
110. 3:29one-on-one relationship that develops
111. 3:31between one person and one computer
112. 3:33now when you use the term a personal
113. 3:35computer you're avoiding the term
114. 3:37a home computer for a deliberate reason
115. 3:39right right
116. 3:41we view we segment our market uh
117. 3:44really into four major segments uh
118. 3:47education
119. 3:48professional small business home
120. 3:51consumer
121. 3:52and scientific industrial now the home
122. 3:55market
123. 3:55hasn't really taken off it's the
124. 3:57probably the smallest of those four i've
125. 3:59listed
126. 4:00we view the home now not as a market
127. 4:02really but as a location
128. 4:04in which personal computers are used for
129. 4:07a variety of functions
130. 4:08sometimes in other words you can use a
131. 4:10personal computer to do some portfolio
132. 4:12management on some stocks
133. 4:14you can use a personal computer to do
134. 4:15some educational uh
135. 4:19can i answer that question okay yeah you
136. 4:21can just pick it up
137. 4:23oh okay great sam you were
138. 4:26when you grew up you're saying are we
139. 4:28still waiting for uh yeah
140. 4:30question and we'll pick it up right
141. 4:33okay john
142. 4:36and when you use the term a personal
143. 4:38computer you're deliberately avoiding
144. 4:40the the use of the term
145. 4:42home computer aren't you right we um
146. 4:45we view the home not really as a market
147. 4:48yet we view it more as a location
148. 4:50we sell a lot of personal computers that
149. 4:52are used for financial analysis for
150. 4:54education in schools
151. 4:56for running laboratory experiments in
152. 4:58you know universities and in
153. 5:00in scientific applications and a lot of
154. 5:02these personal computers are used
155. 5:04in the home as a location some of the
156. 5:07time
157. 5:08but there's not enough specific
158. 5:09applications to cost justify
159. 5:11spending a thousand to three thousand
160. 5:13dollars for a personal computer to be
161. 5:14used in the home
162. 5:15yet so we don't think the home is quite
163. 5:18yet ready uh
164. 5:19either culturally or economically what
165. 5:22type of person would
166. 5:23need a personal computer today of the
167. 5:25type you offer
168. 5:27well it gets back to the question of
169. 5:29what is a personal computer again
170. 5:31uh again another analogy
171. 5:34there was an article in scientific
172. 5:35american in the early 70s which compared
173. 5:39the efficiency of locomotion for various
174. 5:41species of things on the planet in other
175. 5:43words they measured how much energy it
176. 5:44took for a bird to get from point a to
177. 5:46point b
178. 5:46compared with the energy it took a fish
179. 5:48to get the same distance and a goat and
180. 5:50a person and all sorts of other things
181. 5:52and they ranked them and turns out the
182. 5:53condor won
183. 5:55condor was the most efficient and mann
184. 5:57came in with a rather unimpressive
185. 5:58showing about a third of the way down
186. 6:00the list
187. 6:00somewhat disappointing but someone there
188. 6:03had the insight to test the efficiency
189. 6:05of man riding a bicycle
190. 6:07and man riding a bicycle was twice as
191. 6:09good as the condor all the way off the
192. 6:10end of the list
193. 6:11and what it really illustrated was man's
194. 6:13ability as a tool maker
195. 6:14to fashion a tool that can amplify an
196. 6:17inherent ability that he has
197. 6:19and that's exactly what we think we're
198. 6:20doing we think we're basically
199. 6:22fashioning a 21st century bicycle here
200. 6:25which can amplify an inherent
201. 6:27intellectual ability that man has
202. 6:29and really take care of a lot of
203. 6:30drudgery to free people to do much more
204. 6:32creative work
205. 6:34does this mean do you think that
206. 6:36personal computers
207. 6:38in the 21st century will be as much a
208. 6:40part of a home as say
209. 6:42a refrigerator uh we can always
210. 6:45we can look at what's happening right
211. 6:47now as an example in the state of
212. 6:48minnesota which is probably the leading
213. 6:50state in the country
214. 6:51over 97 percent of the kids that
215. 6:54graduate from high school have hands-on
216. 6:56experience with an apple before they
217. 6:57graduate
218. 6:58these kids are growing up learning how
219. 7:00to use this new tool
220. 7:02in many many phases of their life
221. 7:04they're hitting college the same thing's
222. 7:05happening
223. 7:06and so very rapidly uh the process of
224. 7:10the integration of personal computers
225. 7:11into the society will be accomplished
226. 7:13let me illustrate two other processes
227. 7:15which have happened in our lifetime very
228. 7:16similar to this
229. 7:18you probably haven't used a piece of
230. 7:20carbon paper or seen a mimeograph
231. 7:22machine in a while
232. 7:24and yet the first xerox machine was
233. 7:26introduced
234. 7:27less than 20 years ago it'll be 20 years
235. 7:29ago next month
236. 7:31and in 20 years it's radically altered
237. 7:33the way that we work
238. 7:34another process the hp 35 first
239. 7:37scientific handheld calculator was
240. 7:39introduced by hewlett packard in 1972
241. 7:42but we all know where that's gone in
242. 7:43just nine years but another interesting
243. 7:46sidelight is in 1978 the largest
244. 7:48manufacturer of slide rules in the world
245. 7:50stopped making them entirely because the
246. 7:52market had gone away
247. 7:53six years so we see that it is possible
248. 7:56in our lifetimes for a process
249. 7:58like this to radically influence the way
250. 7:59that we work and even start to look at
251. 8:01life
252. 8:03when you say start to look at life how
253. 8:07where where is the impact going to be
254. 8:08felt most in the intellectual process
255. 8:12in the day-to-day living process that is
256. 8:15running the household
257. 8:16in terms of the way you spend your
258. 8:18leisure time is there any way to
259. 8:21to pinpoint one of those areas as being
260. 8:23the most likely to
261. 8:24what we have seen in almost all
262. 8:27applications of personal computers that
263. 8:29have happened to date the industry is
264. 8:31only five years old but we've seen we've
265. 8:32shipped you know in excess of 150 000
266. 8:34personal computers ourselves
267. 8:37we've seen a dramatic increase
268. 8:40in the creativity of people in dealing
269. 8:43with a problem
270. 8:44rather than doing the drudgery rather
271. 8:47than using traditional tools
272. 8:49people are freed to think about the
273. 8:51conceptual issues involved and the
274. 8:52creative issues involved
275. 8:54and use the computer actually to to plow
276. 8:57through the drudgery this is an
277. 8:58education
278. 8:59where students can actually learn at
279. 9:01their own pace where they can interact
280. 9:03with a computer rather than just having
281. 9:04a one-way communication through the
282. 9:06medium of television
283. 9:07or books that can actually interact with
284. 9:10the medium
285. 9:10we're seeing this in the professional
286. 9:12sphere where we no longer
287. 9:14have as an example at apple we no longer
288. 9:16have secretaries at apple
289. 9:18we have what we call area administrators
290. 9:21they're using the computers for all
291. 9:22their word processing
292. 9:23they do all departmental budgeting on it
293. 9:25we do our entire forecasting using our
294. 9:27own tools
295. 9:28and we're actually changing job
296. 9:30descriptions based on allowing people to
297. 9:31do more creative work rather than more
298. 9:34more work work you mentioned that the uh
299. 9:37that the the calculators
300. 9:39eliminated in at least one case indeed
301. 9:41for slide rules
302. 9:42that your secretarial job descriptions
303. 9:44are changing
304. 9:46yes are there any other major areas that
305. 9:48personal computers
306. 9:49are going to change in that direction
307. 9:52that most people would be familiar with
308. 9:53or make obsolete well i don't think
309. 9:56personal computers are making anything
310. 9:57obsolete in the sense of what people do
311. 10:00i think they're enriching what people do
312. 10:03again there is a a common conception
313. 10:06that people have of computers which is
314. 10:08more along the lines of 1984
315. 10:10very large very centralized computers
316. 10:12and i know the privacy issue is very
317. 10:14very
318. 10:14hot in the media these days but what
319. 10:17we're finding is that when people
320. 10:19actually see what a personal computer is
321. 10:20they see something that looks
322. 10:22you know approximately they can hold it
323. 10:23in their hands it weighs 12 pounds again
324. 10:25they can throw it out the window if they
325. 10:26don't like it
326. 10:27and it is very decentralized it's very
327. 10:29democratic
328. 10:30and it's something that completely is uh
329. 10:33almost the opposite of the 1984
330. 10:35conception we have
331. 10:36and what we're finding is it is it is
332. 10:38enriching people's lives
333. 10:40it is freeing people to do things like
334. 10:42we think people do best
335. 10:45is there any basis for comparing you to
336. 10:47say mattel
337. 10:48and atari or is that like comparing
338. 10:51apples and oranges
339. 10:52oranges we describe our business as
340. 10:55really making tools and not toys
341. 10:58and uh we're really interested in
342. 11:00providing that bicycle type of tool to
343. 11:02the marketplace
344. 11:04i think uh some other people are more
345. 11:06interested in providing an entertainment
346. 11:08value
347. 11:09which is which is valuable of course too
348. 11:11but that's not our business
349. 11:12is there a difference in your technology
350. 11:14as well
351. 11:15um there's something happening actually
352. 11:18in the whole personal computer industry
353. 11:20with all the serious competitors
354. 11:22the again this process of integrating
355. 11:24personal computers into the society is
356. 11:26going to take maybe 10 years to
357. 11:28conclude and we of course want to
358. 11:30continue to sell more and more and more
359. 11:32computers
360. 11:33the key to that will be to make the
361. 11:34computers easier and easier and easier
362. 11:36to use
363. 11:37and the way that that's going to happen
364. 11:39is we're going to be spending more and
365. 11:40more of the computer power in the box
366. 11:42to adapt the computer more to the way
367. 11:45people are familiar with doing things
368. 11:47so that people have to adapt less to the
369. 11:48way computers do things
370. 11:50and therefore it will require a more
371. 11:52sophisticated computer
372. 11:54that's the paradox in our industry right
373. 11:55now to make a computer simpler to use
374. 11:57requires a more sophisticated computer
375. 12:00that's part of the reason the home
376. 12:01market doesn't exist yet because if you
377. 12:02think about it
378. 12:03the home user needs the easiest to use
379. 12:05computer therefore the most
380. 12:06sophisticated
381. 12:07therefore one of the most expensive so
382. 12:10we expect prices not to come tumbling
383. 12:13down in the next few years but actually
384. 12:14to
385. 12:15stay to main you'll get more computer
386. 12:17power for the same dollar you might even
387. 12:18see prices increase a little
388. 12:19but the computers are going to get
389. 12:21dramatically easier to use
390. 12:23so you and your partner grew up in this
391. 12:26valley silicon valley what kind of uh
392. 12:30culture uh existed here that that's led
393. 12:33to all of the the building that's
394. 12:35gone on all the companies that have been
395. 12:37created this
396. 12:38uh santa clara valley which we all refer
397. 12:41to affectionately silicon valley
398. 12:43is probably one of the finest examples
399. 12:45of of what i call sort of an
400. 12:46entrepreneurial risk culture
401. 12:48anywhere in the world and both my
402. 12:51partner steve wozniak and i both grew up
403. 12:53here
404. 12:54and really some of the people that
405. 12:55founded companies around the area
406. 12:57hewlett and
407. 12:58bill hewlett and dave packard and others
408. 13:00were really our role models our heroes
409. 13:03and we like to think that we're carrying
410. 13:05on that tradition
411. 13:07what is there left for you to do now
412. 13:09that you're 25 uh your company's gone
413. 13:11public
414. 13:12yeah it's worth hundreds of millions of
415. 13:14dollars
416. 13:15well we don't really feel we've
417. 13:17accomplished what we set out to do yet
418. 13:19we've set out to really help lead this
419. 13:22process of
420. 13:23getting personal computers into the
421. 13:24society and i think uh
422. 13:26asked me in five years
423. 13:29great thank you very much okay all right
424. 13:31yeah the only thought i had
425. 13:44even though you and the video game
426. 13:47manufacturers really exist in two
427. 13:49different worlds
428. 13:50yes is the fact that children and people
429. 13:53in general are becoming so familiar with
430. 13:55the use of these
431. 13:56video games and the simple computers
432. 13:58that go along with them
433. 13:59are going to make people more
434. 14:03aware of personal computers in the
435. 14:05future do you think and better able to
436. 14:07deal with them
437. 14:08sure matter of fact it's not even only
438. 14:10occurring in the video game area it's
439. 14:12occurring as an example with an
440. 14:13automated bank teller
441. 14:14people are interacting more and more
442. 14:16with intelligent devices whether it be
443. 14:18an intelligent game or an intelligent
444. 14:19bank teller or
445. 14:21whatever and we you're already seeing it
446. 14:24in society now
447. 14:25people are becoming more and more
448. 14:26familiar with interacting with
449. 14:27intelligent
450. 14:28electronic devices and that's changing
451. 14:31things culturally
452. 14:32it's a step along the way
453. 14:36thank you okay thank you very much
454. 14:40did you get what you want is that yeah
455. 14:42that was good i think i think it
456. 14:46doesn't tie you to
457. 14:50uh to them and yet
458. 14:53professionally but i think it does to
459. 14:56the idea that
460. 14:56that los angeles just because there's so
461. 14:58much work on that coast and then the
462. 15:00other
463. 15:01six five or six months you know in
464. 15:04between
465. 15:10what uh do you need steve talking do you
466. 15:13want me to re
467. 15:14ask her okay you don't even need to
468. 15:16re-answer what they'll do is take this
469. 15:17and splice it in
470. 15:18right you know how it works so i don't
471. 15:20need to talk no great just
472. 15:21uh not or something so when they make
473. 15:24the edit it'll look as if you're
474. 15:25making some physical emotions but yeah
475. 15:27all right i'm going to begin with the
476. 15:29reasons okay
477. 15:37when you began to begin when you began
478. 15:39to develop this business five years ago
479. 15:41what sort of need for personal computers
480. 15:43did you improve
481. 15:46steve when you began to develop the
482. 15:48business about five years ago
483. 15:50what needs for personal computers did
484. 15:53you observe that
485. 15:55when you use the word personal computer
486. 15:57you intentionally
487. 15:59avoid the word home computers
488. 16:02now when you use the term personal
489. 16:04computer you deliberately avoided the
490. 16:06use of the term
491. 16:07home computer right
492. 16:10what type of person would have a
493. 16:13personal
494. 16:14computer today what type of individual
495. 16:16would have a person
496. 16:18what type of individual would buy a
497. 16:20personal computer today
498. 16:23that's right we always get a lot of good
499. 16:25answers
500. 16:27this was just a statement does this mean
501. 16:29that personal computers
502. 16:30in the 21st century would be as ordinary
503. 16:33as say a refrigerator
504. 16:34okay does this mean that uh
505. 16:37personal computers in the 21st century
506. 16:39would be as ordinary
507. 16:41a part of a household as say a
508. 16:42refrigerator a vacuum cleaner
509. 16:45i can't crack this guy up
510. 16:48oh yes you can
511. 16:52i used to be the easiest guy uh uh
512. 16:55that's another story i'm not going to
513. 16:56tell it
514. 16:57where they'll have it on tape and
515. 16:58somebody will pull it out of the blue
516. 16:59for real
517. 17:00i'm not going to like it yeah sure
518. 17:04okay next question okay where is the
519. 17:06impact of
520. 17:07personal computers going to be felt the
521. 17:09most okay
522. 17:11where's the impact of personal computers
523. 17:13going to be felt most in the future uh
524. 17:18and then there was a lengthy question
525. 17:19that had to do with calculators
526. 17:21uh and secretarial jobs and any other
527. 17:24changes he might
528. 17:25foresee in the future okay
529. 17:30if calculators are making slide rules
530. 17:32obsolete
531. 17:33and your computer is allowing you to
532. 17:36redefine your secretarial jobs into
533. 17:38other categories more creative
534. 17:40categories
535. 17:41what other types of things are going to
536. 17:42change as a result of personal computers
537. 17:44or be made obsolete
538. 17:50that do it even though you and the video
539. 17:53manufacturers
540. 17:54of apple and the video game
541. 17:56manufacturers exist in different worlds
542. 17:59is there some awareness of computing
543. 18:06even though apple and the video game
544. 18:08manufacturers really exist in in two
545. 18:10different worlds
546. 18:12are these video games in a sense getting
547. 18:14people more
548. 18:15accustomed to the idea of personal
549. 18:17computers
550. 18:21okay that's the end great
551. 18:24now i will listen to steve right and you
552. 18:27can say
553. 18:28anything this is this is the fun farm
554. 18:30yeah where do you do do you vacation in
555. 18:32this area or do you go uh
556. 18:35yeah yeah no uh i don't i haven't taken
557. 18:38a vacation in a long time
558. 18:41that's how i measure whether i'm
559. 18:43successful is whether i could take off
560. 18:44for three months
561. 18:45so far i'm not successful yeah well
562. 18:48someday
563. 18:49oh yeah how do you how do you build an
564. 18:51executive core
565. 18:52around a company like this obviously you
566. 18:54and your partner had to take an awful
567. 18:55lot of responsibility for
568. 18:57well one of the things that we always
569. 18:58did was we tried to hire somebody who
570. 19:00was better than us in a particular thing
571. 19:03that's still my greatest joy around here
572. 19:04is when we hire somebody that's better
573. 19:05than i'll ever be at one particular
574. 19:06thing
575. 19:08so you try to hire just really
576. 19:09outstanding people that are much too
577. 19:11they're actually much too senior for the
578. 19:13current jobs that you have
579. 19:14but you know you're planning to grow so
580. 19:16fast that in six months the job's just
581. 19:17right for them and in a year they're
582. 19:19scrambling to keep up with it
583. 19:20so we've grown it you know
584. 19:24several hundred percent a year and uh
585. 19:27it's a
586. 19:27very very different type of environment
587. 19:29than most people are used to we've got a
588. 19:31whole
589. 19:31generation of managers here they're
590. 19:33trained to grow at 400
591. 19:35a year and they'd be bored stiff growing
592. 19:37at 30 percent a year