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Stepmother Accused Of MURDER - Letecia Stauch — Transcript

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0:00Leticia, your story makes no sense. And
0:02what it goes back to now is that you
0:04can't take responsibility for what
0:06happened to Shannon.
0:07>> I didn't do anything to gain, sir.
0:08>> You can't insert someone else in here
0:10unless you're going to tell me who it
0:11is.
0:11>> Okay. I didn't do anything to him, sir.
0:14>> That's fine. But then you would tell me
0:17who it is if you give it someone else.
0:18>> Didn't do anything to Ganon, sir.
0:20>> Did he do it to himself?
0:21>> Okay. I didn't do anything.
0:23>> I'm not asking you if you did. I'm
0:25asking you to did Ganon do it to
0:27himself.
0:29do what?
0:30>> The head injury, the neck injury,
0:32whatever that was that caused that pool
0:35of blood down by the bottom of its bed.
0:37You know that the sheets and all that
0:38stuff, the blood seeps down in
0:41>> and what now?
0:42>> The blood seeps down that through that
0:44corner
0:46>> sheets
0:46>> through the sheets into the mattress.
0:50>> I have no idea what you're even talking
0:51about.
0:54[Music]
1:02So, Latan John Gruing with the FBI met
1:05you in the mall parking lot.
1:07>> Do you know why you're here? Did they
1:09inform you the officers of why you're
1:11under arrest?
1:12>> I'm under arrest.
1:13>> Yes.
1:14>> For what?
1:15>> For a cannon stopped. A warrant was
1:18issued out of Colorado.
1:20>> Okay. But no, someone could have just
1:22called me and we didn't have to have
1:23like a big scene. I would have called
1:25you or whoever.
1:26>> Yeah. And apologized for that. Um
1:30because of the nature of the warrant, it
1:31being a murder warrant. There's there's
1:34and that's what I'd like to talk with
1:35you about today. That's why we're not
1:37having a cast of thousands here and
1:38whatever is we would like to get to the
1:40bottom of what happened there. Um I know
1:43that a lot of things have gone on with
1:45your life. Little bit of how this turns
1:47out. Okay. But because you were
1:50arrested, you're not free to leave. I
1:51need you to sign of advice of rights
1:53before we can talk.
1:55>> Well, I mean, so I'm getting charged
1:57with what now?
1:59>> So, you were charged in uh the judge in
2:03Colorado Springs signed off. So, the way
2:05this case worked
2:06>> was El Paso County got the first the
2:09original case. They didn't have enough
2:10manpower to work it.
2:12>> Okay.
2:12>> So, they called the FBI.
2:14>> Um I'm part of the for the for the FBI.
2:19um an extension of the profiling unit
2:21and I came in and assisted
2:23>> and I've been helping for about the last
2:243 weeks.
2:25>> Okay.
2:26>> So, our evidence response team, you've
2:28probably seen that on the news, has been
2:29doing some searches, etc. And then other
2:32FBI agents have been writing warrants.
2:34>> Okay.
2:34>> Uh so, a lot of warrants have been
2:36written. We've gone through the court.
2:38El Paso Sheriff's Office and FBI have
2:41worked together
2:42>> and we found enough you call it probable
2:45cause
2:46>> uh for a warrant to be issued. So that's
2:48why you're here today.
2:49>> Okay. It weren't for what though?
2:50>> It was for the murder.
2:52>> What murder?
2:52>> Ganon Ganon's staff.
2:54>> So Ganon is murdered.
2:56>> That's what the evidence shows.
2:58>> Okay.
2:58>> And I'm happy to share with you
2:59evidence, but we can't have a
3:00conversation unless you're advised of
3:02your rights.
3:03>> Okay. What are my rights?
3:05[Music]
3:12>> So this is an advice of rights form.
3:15I'll fill it out at the top. And you
3:17don't have to answer any question.
3:19>> Oh, I am.
3:20>> Okay. So, I'm not going to force you to
3:21answer anything. If you want this
3:22interview to be done, it's done. So, we
3:25are in South Carolina.
3:30So, I'd like you to initial these as we
3:31go through them. Uh, you have the right
3:33to remain silent. Anything you say can
3:36be used against you in court. You have
3:38the right to talk to a lawyer for advice
3:40before we ask you any questions. You
3:42have the right to have a lawyer with you
3:44during questioning. If you cannot afford
3:46a lawyer, one will be appointed for you
3:48before questioning if you wish. And if
3:50you decide to answer questions lawyer
3:53present, you have the right to stop
3:54answering at any time. I'm not going to
3:56force you to say anything.
3:57>> Okay. So, I had already like had reached
3:59an attorney, but all the information is
4:02in my phone. So, um
4:05>> So, it's up to you. I'm not going to
4:06force you to say that.
4:07>> I mean,
4:08>> if you don't,
4:09>> I can talk to you, but I mean, see, the
4:13last time I asked for an attorney
4:14talking to them, I wasn't allowed that
4:16after I asked.
4:17>> That's not how this is going to go. This
4:19would be a conversation.
4:20>> Have more integrity being with the FBI
4:22that you would do that.
4:23>> I've got a family to protect. So, I'm
4:25not going to violate any
4:26>> I don't mind doing that at all. Um, but
4:29at any point, I would like to call my
4:31attorney if I feel like. Is that okay?
4:33>> That is okay.
4:34>> Okay. So, can I write that in somewhere
4:37or
4:38>> Well, that's this one right here. If you
4:40decide to answer any questions lawyer
4:43president, you have the right to stop at
4:44any time.
4:45>> Okay.
4:46>> So,
4:49and if you need food, water, whatever
4:51else, this is not we're not going to
4:53have people with guns standing outside
4:55trying to intimidate you. I want this to
4:57be your statement and our conversation.
4:59[Music]
5:03>> Okay.
5:06So,
5:07I I was thinking of a lot of things to
5:09say to you today because I've been
5:12helping. I've been involved,
5:13>> right?
5:14>> Um I've unfortunately worked a lot of
5:17missing kids cases. That's why they
5:19called me to do this.
5:20>> Okay.
5:21>> A lot of time with Mark, who was the
5:23dad, Dylan, who actually was in Colorado
5:25Springs with mom.
5:26>> Mhm.
5:26>> Went to go see dad. This was in November
5:29of 2012.
5:30>> Right.
5:31>> And uh then he disappeared. So, it's a
5:33lot like what happened here.
5:36>> Uh, what I think happened with Mark, his
5:39uh friends, and Mark wouldn't let him
5:41go.
5:42>> Okay.
5:43>> And I think Mark got upset. I think
5:45Dylan did some things that irritated
5:47Mark. I think there was just a punch in
5:48the face sort of thing,
5:50>> right?
5:50>> And I think things went downhill from
5:52there.
5:53>> Well, and I'm not I'm not saying that's
5:55what happened. say, "I can help you
5:57because what you're charging me with is
5:59not or whoever is not the case.
6:02>> Ganon is alive." Okay? And I can help
6:05you.
6:05>> Okay? Great.
6:06>> But see, here's the problem. When I
6:08reached out to people about getting
6:10help, I said, "Hey, I need someone who's
6:13going to help me to help you guys." I
6:15couldn't get that from anyone
6:18at all.
6:18>> They were happy to help you.
6:19>> Okay. So, I understand you might say you
6:22have like whatever evidence that you
6:24might say you have, but that is not a
6:26case. I did not hurt my child. Okay.
6:30Need more assistance besides just FBI.
6:32Probably going to need some DEA.
6:34Probably need a lot of help.
6:36>> Well, I'm happy to get whatever. How do
6:37you know?
6:38>> But I can't help you unless people are
6:41willing to help me. And I did offer
6:43every opportunity to sit down and talk
6:45with not only my husband, but with
6:47Landon to try to come up with the best
6:50plan to do it. I really did. And I've
6:53been begging every single day, please,
6:56please, please don't say this, okay? You
6:59I know you're expert in your field,
7:01okay? I know you may say you have
7:03whatever evidence you have, but it's
7:05just not true. Okay? It's not.
7:08>> It's not true that Ganon's dead. I'm not
7:11going to sit here and say 100%. I can
7:14tell you that there's really things that
7:15went have occurred that I could help you
7:18guys with to know that and it leads back
7:21to some things just being in the wrong
7:23place at the wrong time. Okay, that's
7:25that's the truth.
7:26>> Okay,
7:27>> that is the very truth. And every day
7:29that went by,
7:31I had to do nothing but not only protect
7:33myself, but protect my family in this,
7:36protect other people in this. And it's
7:38just
7:40That's just what it's been.
7:42>> So, I think our biggest problem is what
7:45happened at the house then
7:46>> at the house.
7:47>> Yes.
7:48>> Well, there's nothing that would have
7:49happened at the house that has anything
7:52to do with what I what I'm talking about
7:54at all. That has nothing to do with
7:56anything
7:58because you guys have like clearly put
8:01out this information about him not
8:04coming home and then this and that and
8:06the other. And I get, like I said,
8:08you're experts. I get people with
8:10forensics are experts. I understand
8:12that. But it's just not the truth.
8:16It's just not the truth.
8:20And until I know that I I got to get
8:23help from some people other than someone
8:25just having me in a room.
8:27>> You got to get help to do what?
8:28>> I got to get help to get everyone what
8:30they need because I'm going to need my
8:32mom protected. Okay. I'm going to need
8:34my brother and my sister protected. And
8:36most importantly, I'm need Harley
8:38protected. And on that same note, I'm
8:40also going to need other people in
8:41Colorado protected. And see, people say
8:44FBI can offer that protection.
8:47>> We can.
8:48>> How? How?
8:49>> If it involves an 11 if it involves
8:51finding an 11year-old, then we can.
8:53>> And it means that we can have new
8:55identities.
8:56>> It does.
8:58Yeah. I've had to do that before for we
9:00call it an informant, but we can do it
9:02for we general public.
9:07Who else would you trust?
9:09>> I don't know at this point, sir. I don't
9:11know. There's nothing that happened at
9:14any house. Nothing that happened at any
9:18house that would have hurt, harmed,
9:22murdered, done anything to anyone.
9:25Okay. Wrong place, wrong time.
9:28>> You were in the wrong place or Ganon
9:30was?
9:31>> I was.
9:32>> What about Ganon?
9:34We we all were in the wrong place. My
9:36even my family was in the wrong place at
9:38the wrong time. Even Lena, even hardly.
9:40Okay. Was all of us in the wrong place
9:42at the wrong time.
9:44>> And I swear to you, I'm not.
9:47>> So,
9:48[Music]
9:50>> but I got just like you have trust
9:52issues. Let me tell you where I am. So,
9:54so I'm with the FBI where when a child
9:57goes missing, if they're underage,
9:59>> right,
9:59>> then we can get involved and it's it can
10:01be even a kidnapping. So if if Ganon is
10:04moved from one point to another without
10:06his, you know, will, then it's a child
10:09kidnapping,
10:10>> right?
10:10>> And so that's what we're working this
10:12as. And with me as a federal employee,
10:15>> uh, with me working a federal case, cuz
10:17right now it's filed with the district
10:18attorney, right?
10:19>> But the US attorney could file it as
10:21well.
10:21>> Does that make sense?
10:22>> What do you mean?
10:23>> The US attorney is the federal
10:26>> prosecutors.
10:27>> Right now it's on the state. when you're
10:30talking to me. Uh, we are recording this
10:32for your integrity and mine,
10:33>> right?
10:34>> But if you'd rather not say something, I
10:37mean, if I would rather you just say, "I
10:39don't want to answer it," instead of
10:41telling me something that's not true.
10:42>> Okay?
10:43>> Because there's something called false
10:44statements, which is a thousand1
10:47to where if you lie to us during an
10:49investigation, that can be a year prison
10:51time, right? I got
10:52>> So that's why I said on this last one,
10:54>> if you want to not answer a question,
10:56I'm not going to push you.
10:57>> Okay.
10:57>> Okay. So, so with these people, you
11:00know, taking Ganon or whatever else, if
11:02it's not true, just say, "I'd rather not
11:05answer that." Okay? Because we're
11:07different than your local detectives and
11:09whatever else. It's not a felony to lie
11:11to them.
11:12>> Okay?
11:12>> Okay. So, my goal though is to find
11:17Ghana,
11:17>> right?
11:18>> And if you need protection, if there
11:21truly is someone out there, we can
11:23provide that. does not mean that
11:25>> happened though. I will need you to
11:27explain what happened from that night.
11:30>> Which night?
11:30>> The night that he disappeared
11:34>> because I've I've read I've looked at
11:35all the news stories. I've um we have
11:39been listening to your phone for the
11:40last month. It probably doesn't surprise
11:42you.
11:42>> We're listening to other people's phones
11:44as well trying to find this kid.
11:46>> Okay.
11:46>> And we know from the internet and
11:48whatever else, there's a lot of stories
11:49out there. So if someone truly took
11:52Ganon though, we need to know the real
11:55story because you put out quite a
11:56different quite a few different stories.
11:59>> I put out to who?
12:01>> To you. Well, we heard a lot of the
12:02stories to Al
12:04>> to Albert.
12:05>> Mhm.
12:05>> You mean like talking to him? Oh, okay.
12:07So, let me just let me just explain that
12:09to you. And you might think that's like
12:10super like
12:12>> I'm not going to judge you here. Let's
12:13>> whatever. to him was I the reason I
12:16already knew someone was listening to
12:18him, but because of him not like being
12:22like supportive and I tried originally
12:24to talk to him when he first got there,
12:27that was the only reason I said those
12:29things to him was just because I was out
12:31of anger and out of like hurt and not
12:34being able to have like support. It was
12:36nothing to do with like like I'm sitting
12:39here going to tell you these stories.
12:41That was just anger, stupidity.
12:44And I already knew like I even if you
12:46heard it, you heard me say a lot of
12:48times I know people are listening
12:49because I know the same time that
12:51someone called every time I could hear
12:54people. I knew that.
12:55>> So me saying those things to him was
12:57just being just what what is the word
13:00you want to call it? Selfish or vicious
13:02or whatever you want to call it. just
13:04because that was I was I was hurt by him
13:06not wanting to work together to figure
13:09this out because I did have like
13:12originally initial different thoughts on
13:14certain things and that was me trying to
13:16like basically read him and try to
13:19figure the situations out. So I
13:20understand that you may have heard those
13:22or whatever you may have heard and
13:23that's okay because that totally was not
13:26>> that was not me trying to be that was
13:28just being
13:30>> stupid to him. So I have a question for
13:31you in regards to that. Were you of
13:35sound mind? I mean did you have are are
13:38you undergoing any treatment for anxiety
13:41or any depression or anything like that
13:44right now or
13:45>> I mean like you mean like I don't I've
13:48had anxiety since I was like 16 17ish
13:51maybe. like as far as like um undergoing
13:55like any kind of special treatment or
13:58you know like sometimes I might have to
14:00take like leazip or something like that
14:02>> right
14:03>> but um I didn't see like counselors or
14:06like anything for any kind of like
14:09depression or and then plus two like
14:12right now well if I mean I'm sure if you
14:14already got medical records I'm I'm
14:16eight weeks pregnant so I can't take any
14:19kind of
14:20>> okay
14:21>> like Um, I I I mean I wish I could
14:23because then it would help a lot with
14:25anxiety, but but
14:27I can't.
14:29>> So,
14:29>> okay.
14:30>> So, you were of sound mind when you were
14:31talking to Al. You were just you were
14:33upset with him and upset with the
14:35situation of him not being by your side
14:37through this whole thing,
14:38>> right? And but then at the same time,
14:40like I have to sit back and think that,
14:42you know, in a person's brain, you don't
14:45you hear hundred different things. we do
14:47get miscommodulated and just try to like
14:51do whatever. And I just wanted him to
14:54know cuz he knows like I've been I've
14:56been taking care of our kids like for so
14:59long while he was gone and their mom was
15:01gone and I'm not here to bash either one
15:03of them. I just they had a lot of
15:05different separate situations going on
15:07that I've always taken care of the kids
15:09and so there's been times I protected
15:12them from so many people. You basically
15:14had to raise them on your own because he
15:16was gone a lot.
15:16>> Well, he was gone a lot and mom was
15:18doing whatever she was doing, you know.
15:20So, with that, like I've had to step in
15:23and protect them a lot so many times.
15:25>> What kind of dad would you say Al was to
15:28Ganon or is to Ganon?
15:29>> Oh, he's a good dad. Like, I mean, as
15:32far as like being like there for him and
15:36like, you know, how can I say it? Like
15:38if he says, "Hey, I want to go do
15:40something." Albert works a lot, so he's
15:42tired and his hours are like kind of,
15:44you know, up in the air here and there,
15:46but for the most part, he like is always
15:49trying to make sure he puts, you know,
15:51like the kids, military first and always
15:54will be, and that's the mindset. And
15:56then
15:56>> did you go into the marriage knowing
15:57that military first?
15:59>> Well, I grew up knowing that my stepdad
16:03was here actually, that's why I was
16:05looking at that guy's name, but my
16:06stepdad was here um growing up in the
16:08Air Force base. So I lived on like a
16:11liar or spaces and things like that. So
16:13like I maybe didn't understand it from
16:17parent perspective. I mean I'm sorry
16:19stops pers perspective like my mom's
16:21perspective but I did understand it from
16:23like a child perspective. But the thing
16:25about it was is how didn't have to like
16:27go be deployed or or anything like that.
16:30It was mostly like work through the
16:32night type thing. So it was like we were
16:34blessed in that way of not having to
16:37like
16:38have to see him go overseas or or
16:40something like that. That was the
16:42biggest part.
16:42>> And you guys have been married six
16:44years, five years.
16:45>> Five years.
16:46>> Five years.
16:47>> And you came to the marriage with
16:49Harley,
16:50>> right?
16:51>> And then Elena is the youngest.
16:53>> Right.
16:54>> Okay.
16:54>> Right. Um,
16:55>> and then we had like
16:58maybe I think four or five one two like
17:01kind of midterm miscarriages cuz we
17:03always try to like have kids and I don't
17:06know like something must have happened
17:08like when I get to a certain point so we
17:11would have had a lot more kids,
17:12>> right?
17:13>> But yeah.
17:13>> Do you think Al was faithful to you? Was
17:15he cheating on you? Um I don't like I
17:18never we never had like any
17:20conversations until like of course mad
17:22like recently but like prior to that we
17:25never had like uh um like fusses or it
17:30might be some like Albert type of person
17:31when he got work he just liked to come
17:32home. He wasn't like uh oh I'm going to
17:36go do this with people. He just wasn't
17:38that type of person. And that was that
17:40was the good part because he wasn't you
17:42know like not saying you can't like I
17:44know sure you might say if a football
17:45game's going you might want to go over
17:46watch you know watch your friends but
17:49>> usually for the most part we do it like
17:50do it together or go over there and do
17:53something together but it was never
17:55really like having our own people that
17:57we did things with and kind of get
17:59there. So we never like had issues of
18:01anything like that. most of the time.
18:03But the issues that we always had was I
18:06never wanted the kids to ever come back
18:08here a lot of times during like their
18:10breaks and we begin like unlike
18:13arguments about it. But he would always
18:15say, "Well, I have to. I'm obligated,
18:18you know, to do these things." So
18:21>> So you don't think he was cheating on
18:22you prior to this whole thing going on
18:24with Canon?
18:26>> Um,
18:26>> but did you suspect or
18:28>> that Albert was cheating on me?
18:30>> Um, no. the I mean there's been times in
18:32the past where I've saw that he's talked
18:34to other women you know like on messages
18:37and things like that but then he's also
18:39like you guys have my phone in the past
18:41you would have saw that he's always
18:42apologized for you know like those
18:45things like saying
18:47>> were you guys considering divorce you
18:48know you and Albert
18:50>> I didn't know anything about any kind of
18:51divorce like I know like we've used the
18:54term loosely you know because it was a
18:56lot of stress having to deal with um
18:59like the situation in North Landon.
19:02There was a lot of stress because like
19:05we fought so hard and so long to get
19:07kids to like a safe, you know, uh,
19:10situation. So, it was very hard to like
19:15you someone and they're so emotionally
19:17like upset about the kids not being with
19:19us and we not being able to protect them
19:22that it was kind of hard. It took a lot,
19:24you know, told throughout that time
19:26frame of like Alaska. I'm sure you know
19:28about the time in Alaska and things like
19:31that.
19:31>> So during that time in Alaska and stuff
19:33like that, it was very hard to
19:35>> to like have to see him be so upset from
19:37so many miles away and you know we get
19:40calls that kids didn't have a place to
19:42stay. We get calls that there was guns
19:44in the back of their car and people were
19:46being arrested and you know so that took
19:48its toll in the terms of like figuring
19:51we should not have to like go through
19:53these things. So, but then once like we
19:55got to Colorado,
19:57um you know, we all could be in like one
20:00place and then it was like kind of first
20:03it was like kind of hard cuz you we've
20:05been, you know, like back and forth to
20:07Alaska for so long cuz you know, if you
20:09know the background, I had the kids here
20:10for their school year for for Ganon and
20:12Elena. So, it was Lena's was it first
20:15grade year's fourth grade year? Yeah.
20:17So, they would have went to school here
20:19in Ro Beach. So I had them here with us
20:22since then since um and so still with
20:24that it was us like being apart going
20:26back and forth traveling on holidays
20:28things like that. So that would have
20:30been the most, you know, difficult time.
20:32Like so when I got we got to Colorado,
20:34it was just like, okay, we're here. You
20:36know, we are, you know, doing things
20:38together and we said stupid things to
20:41each other. Like I don't even want to
20:42say on camera, but um but like the
20:45things that we could do to be like,
20:46"Okay, we'll forget all this or if you
20:48do this, we'll do forget all this." But
20:50it's just stupid silly stuff, you know?
20:52Nothing that we would have been.
20:54>> So it seems like you guys had a pretty
20:56solid marriage then. I mean him being a
20:58bunch which is why I was so upset about
21:02not being like supportive because I know
21:06that like when I tell you we went like
21:08debt money spending links to have
21:10attorney fees um for you know like the
21:13custody is it guard or whatever I'm
21:16talking about the gal
21:18>> like we spent so much money and doing
21:19all those things and like working
21:21together to do all that and it was so
21:24I guess like upsetting that he wasn't.
21:27So, I did pop my banger fire out stupid
21:30stuff because I was so pissed and like
21:32really wanting to like talk with him or
21:36Landon like together so I could like
21:38just explain like, hey, this is what I
21:40think we can do in this situation. So,
21:43it was just me trying to get him to talk
21:45to me like privately cuz I already knew
21:47you guys were, you know, listening or or
21:51I already knew that, you know.
21:52>> Yeah. So
21:54>> yeah, he pal was just singularly focused
21:58on what happened again. And
22:01>> besides this situation, have you ever
22:04been around a parent who a child goes
22:07missing before and not return home?
22:10>> Um, no. Like
22:11>> cuz I've I've worked with a family, a
22:14serial killer case I had in 2006 and the
22:17guy was picking off daughters.
22:19>> Were you picking them off?
22:20>> Yes. In Denver. He was actually an
22:22informant of ours which was not our best
22:24day.
22:25>> Okay.
22:25>> But he was going around killing these
22:27girls and then they were they were
22:29high-risisk girls so they were working
22:31you know on the street some or using
22:33drugs or whatever but some of these
22:35girls we haven't returned them home.
22:37>> Mhm.
22:37>> And if you're a parent of a missing kid
22:40versus even a deceased kid. It's a lot
22:42different because you're looking at
22:44every corner. You're looking to say, "Is
22:46that my daughter or my son?"
22:48>> Even if you think they're dead,
22:50>> right?
22:50>> And your mind goes to the worst. But you
22:53even even though we've convicted this
22:55killer for killing these girls because
22:57he confessed to him and whatever else,
23:00>> uh, we still have to have the girls to
23:01bring home,
23:02>> right?
23:03>> And so there's no closure. And I'm
23:05seeing Al from a distance going through
23:08that because I still deal with dads 14
23:11years later
23:12>> who are looking for their daughters at
23:14bus stops and malls and whatever. So,
23:16>> and see that's the hard part is like
23:18people are like, you know, being upset
23:21and I'm like I haven't had the
23:22opportunity to like even just sit down
23:24and be like, okay, well, this is I've
23:28given my life to take care of these
23:30children. I I have. they should not
23:33anymore,
23:34>> you know, and that that I I've done that
23:37and it's so hard because inside that I
23:39don't get to express that emotion to
23:41have that, you know, to say to anyone or
23:44or anything like that. And that's the
23:47most difficult part
23:48>> because I've had to just be like, how
23:50can I how can I make the situation back,
23:54you know, like I mean, come on. They're
23:56let's be honest.
23:57>> I'm John by the way.
23:58>> John.
23:58>> Yeah. I mean, like Albert was talking
24:01about and again, whether you make them
24:02say this or not. I mean, literally woke
24:04up on Christmas, I always make it about
24:06the kids on Christmas because they don't
24:07get to spend Christmas with us. So,
24:09like, if they went home for the
24:10holidays, you know, they might leave,
24:12you know, when school gets out. We might
24:13not see them until, you know, January.
24:16So, I I always spent my time trying to
24:19make sure every time I didn't believe in
24:20certain holidays, I believe Halloween,
24:22but to make sure every holiday was like
24:25revolved around the situation. So for if
24:29you look at a situation I went you know
24:32we have every house and we have cars and
24:34we have whatever I worked my entire life
24:37in education and got a doctor degree in
24:39education. Mhm.
24:41>> So to me it's like everything I worked
24:44so hard for everything I worked I mean
24:46what is it 16 years in the military or
24:49you know service and things like that no
24:51matter how much we had did on that it
24:53took us everything to get the drugs
24:56>> and and that was where we were at in our
24:58safe spot. So for a person who can you
25:03take care of everyone and do everything
25:04for everyone and then just
25:08cannot do it for a split second. That's
25:11the hardest part
25:12>> you know and knowing that this is an
25:15image getting set on me all these
25:17horrible things all these things that
25:19are just not true. Well, that's what
25:21we'd like to get to today.
25:22>> And that's, you know,
25:23>> Yeah. So, I'd like to talk about the
25:26split second, but first, let's go to
25:28Ganon because what we do is called
25:29victimology.
25:30>> Have you heard of that before?
25:31>> Yes, sir. So victimology is we find out
25:34as much as we can about Ganon the victim
25:37and even if he's safe somewhere even if
25:39he's not knowing more about him
25:42especially since you were the last
25:43person with him uh helps us to try to
25:46figure out like say we don't have a
25:49suspect somebody's killed but we have
25:51nothing.
25:52>> Okay.
25:52>> Then we will look at that person to see
25:54what drew that that homicide that
25:57homicide there. Why did those two people
25:59interact at that time?
26:01>> Okay. And then we'll also do things like
26:03u it's uh the the subject the situation
26:07and the location. So something happened
26:10Ganon's here. You have someone or
26:14something that did him harm. And then
26:16you have why the location.
26:17>> Okay.
26:18>> So we have those three things and you
26:19know we've looked through your house and
26:22you know done the CSI stuff and looked
26:24at all the you know body fluids all over
26:26the house and garage and whatever else.
26:28So that's all been done.
26:30Um I'm curious to see your challenges of
26:35Ganon uh here when you had to be a
26:38parent and then there challenges,
26:40successes, whatever else. What special
26:42attention did he need? What can you tell
26:44me about him?
26:45>> Well, here it was he was younger, you
26:48know, um fourth grade start a little
26:51bit, hitting towards, you know, like
26:53sixth grade. So like here he was more so
26:56of like um let's see
27:00how like at that time and situation
27:02here. Okay. So prior to that we never
27:04got to see him except like every other
27:06weekend for the longest time.
27:08>> All right. So then when um Albert we
27:11finally pay all the money attorney
27:13whatever um Albert had to choose between
27:16getting out excuse me getting out of um
27:20sorry getting out of the military or the
27:23kids in a way kind of because
27:26>> mom wasn't given any or whatever. Um so
27:29then that's when we step in and say
27:30we're going to keep them here in our
27:32home here and I'll stay here with them
27:35and then you know we'll go from there,
27:37>> right? So during that time, he also
27:39didn't get to see his mom. A she didn't
27:41have a place to live. Um B, she was also
27:45she had had a baby, but then mainly to
27:48her, not to I'm not going to trash her.
27:50I'm going to say she was married to
27:51someone who didn't
27:53>> who didn't take care of who who wouldn't
27:54take care of them like they should,
27:55okay,
27:56>> with her being pregnant in that
27:58situation.
27:59>> So with mom not having that foundation
28:02support, she wasn't able to come to the
28:04house a lot. And when she did come to
28:06the house, there's times she came that
28:08she was like, "Oh, you know,
28:11chalk." She just wasn't in a good place.
28:13So, I let her stay at her home. And
28:16Ganon had a tough time every time
28:18because in his mind, he just wanted to
28:20be like his stepsister. Dina's
28:22stepsister.
28:23>> Mhm. Who? What? His stepsister.
28:26>> You mean Harley?
28:27>> No.
28:28>> Oh, Landon's.
28:29>> Yeah. No, I don't. Mia.
28:30>> Mia.
28:31>> Mike's daughter. Got it.
28:32>> You know my grand. Okay. So he wanted it
28:35to be like Mike started which was they
28:38go to mom and dad's house for a week and
28:41go to mom and dad's house. You know he
28:42said that was Gana's mindset when he was
28:45here.
28:46>> Grandparents amazing people which is
28:49Landon's family. Um amazing people.
28:52Grandma I think he calls them Nana. Nana
28:54and Poppy. Great people. They would
28:57always come get them on weekends and
28:58things like that so that I'd have time
29:00to like, you know, do whatever I needed
29:01to do or if I wanted to go shopping or
29:04go hang out with people, whatever. So,
29:05we had all that, you know, going on
29:08here. The missing piece was, you know,
29:09Albert had to, you know, serve our
29:11country. Y
29:12>> um Gon would do his school work. Very
29:14smart. I think he made all here in
29:15fourth grade. I'm pretty sure he's fifth
29:17grade. So, made always here. Didn't have
29:20like issue at all.
29:22>> What was he like when he got home from
29:24school? cuz Albert's out. You're having
29:26to take care of him.
29:27>> Well, to be honest with you, I got him
29:29from after school, which was about like
29:305 5:30ish. So, by the time we did
29:33homework um and all those things, it was
29:36almost time to like get ready for bed.
29:38>> Are you doing his homework with him? Is
29:39he doing it on his own?
29:41>> See, the difference between schools, and
29:42I'm not trying to talk about Colorado,
29:43if you're from Colorado, the difference
29:44between Colorado and South Carolina
29:46schools was South Carolina did a lot
29:48more history and those type of things
29:50where Colorado probably thought it
29:51wasn't relevant. really want to focus on
29:53reading and math and things like that.
29:54So, he had a he did struggle with
29:56history. So, we had to sit at a table a
29:58lot of times and like really work on
30:00like he was a mathemat he he he's he's
30:04so like like I said Kennet is just like
30:06I said he is so mathematically inclined
30:08you know like engineer type brain so
30:10when it came to anything history and
30:12reading science stuff unless it was
30:14something he liked he didn't like. So we
30:15spent hours sometimes, you know, working
30:17on those things. But with knowing the
30:20curriculum, it was easy for me because I
30:22already knew the soft curriculum. And so
30:24by the time we do that, it was time for
30:25him to go to bed, you know, yada yada
30:28yada yada. So that was
30:30>> that's here. So then what about in
30:32Colorado? How is that different?
30:34>> Well, when we get to Colorado, of
30:35course, I start them in school, which
30:37would have been August. Okay. So I start
30:41them in school. It was a big help
30:43because Ganon is at this point a little
30:45bit more mature and he knows he'd stay
30:47with us cuz see I took him to Alaska and
30:49homeschooled him before we got to
30:50Colorado. So I homeschooled him for
30:52those two months and then we
30:53transitioned into Colorado. Actually it
30:54wasn't August. I'm sorry I told the
30:56story. It was it was about January that
30:57we got here cuz I homeschooled him
30:58November December. Not of this past time
31:00but of the year before.
31:02>> Okay.
31:03>> Sorry I didn't.
31:03>> So January 2019.
31:06>> Yes. So, I homeschooled them 2018
31:08November um Christmas time because mom
31:11couldn't get them then
31:12>> for whatever reason. Then we came on to
31:15um well, I think she ended up did get
31:16them and she flew them back to Colorado
31:18for a week or something. She got for a
31:20week maybe. Flew them back to Colorado.
31:21So, January 2019, we would have started
31:24school in Colorado.
31:25>> Okay.
31:26>> All right. So, I get them in school,
31:28which Colorado, I mean, I think it was
31:30like May, middle, they would go to
31:32school in Colorado in middle May. So J,
31:34February, March, J. Okay. So it was
31:37pretty simple in the terms of we would
31:38do like, you know, uh he never had work
31:42in Colorado for some reason. Um so it
31:45was always Albert would be like make him
31:46ride to labs or you know make him go do
31:49all these things and then you know um it
31:52was time for him to go to summer.
31:54>> So what time does he normally get home
31:55from school?
31:56>> Well around that time he went to another
31:57school cuz this new school wasn't built.
31:59>> Okay. So it would have been like 3:45
32:014:00 maybe just because I hadn't come
32:03from across town.
32:04>> Mhm.
32:05>> And then coming let's see
32:08>> fall.
32:09>> Fall. Yeah. So they came back in August.
32:11So we went on G with us on a big cruise
32:13in the summer cuz he wanted to he didn't
32:15want to go home to his mom right away.
32:17He wanted we gave him a choice. You want
32:18to go on a family cruise or you want to
32:21go you know to your mom's house and he
32:23said he wanted to go on the cruise. We
32:24all went on the big family cruise and I
32:26forgot a couple of places. So it was
32:28just me, him, Harley, and Albert. So it
32:31was just the four of us. Lena didn't go.
32:34>> So we all went on the Santa Cruz and had
32:36a great time or whatever. And then of
32:38course they come here for the summer and
32:40then they get ready to come back for
32:41fall. So they come back for fall. And at
32:44this point in time, I was I was working.
32:46Albert was doing like the shift like 32.
32:50>> You had your teaching job in the fall?
32:52>> Yes. 32 32. He was like working and all
32:54these things.
32:55>> Okay. Well,
32:57um, Harley was working, I think, and
33:00starting Pikipes Peak College. So, we
33:02were all pretty busy like throughout the
33:05day and then in the evening it was kind
33:07of like come in, grab this, grab this.
33:09But then I was coaching. So, as I was
33:12>> What were you coaching?
33:12>> Softball.
33:13>> Softball.
33:14>> So, as I was
33:14>> at your school,
33:15>> at the high school
33:16>> at the high school. So, as I was
33:17coaching softball, you know, um I
33:20probably didn't get home sometimes till
33:22like
33:245:30, maybe sometimes later, just
33:26depending on if it was a game or
33:27practice or something like that. So,
33:29honestly, most the a lot of the help had
33:32to come from either Harley doing a lot
33:33of it
33:34>> if Albert was working or Ganon had to
33:37independently like, you know, do a lot
33:39of it himself.
33:41>> How did he get home?
33:42>> Which we were teaching. At this point,
33:43they were in the new school,
33:44>> right? Right.
33:44>> So, the new school, because we lived 1.5
33:47miles out, the new school allowed him
33:49to, uh, take the bus.
33:51>> If not, they had the the rest of the way
33:53they had to walk.
33:54>> Okay.
33:55>> Um, so,
33:57um, coaching was over, you know,
33:59probably around, it's weird cuz they do
34:02softball spring, I mean, not spring,
34:03they do a fall there instead of spring.
34:05So, coaching was over maybe around like
34:07October, November. You know, Ganon
34:09started having a hard time because he
34:11was wanting to go home for Thanksgiving
34:13where his when I tell you Vana, he loves
34:16his nana. Like that's his that's his if
34:18it was up to him, he would just he'll
34:20just
34:21>> I'll be at Nana's house all the time cuz
34:22he loves Nana.
34:23>> Um so he like wanted to go cuz he has
34:28two little boy cousins. If you know
34:29Ganon's has four sisters and he doesn't
34:32have any brothers.
34:33>> So he in his way those two little boys
34:36are like his little brothers.
34:37>> Okay. So if he goes to Nana's house, you
34:39know, he can spend a lot of time with
34:41his little cousins. I think it's blazing
34:43and waiting or something like that. And
34:45then they can all just hang out and do
34:47those things. But he didn't get to go
34:49for Thanksgiving. Albert had to work.
34:51>> So we kind of I don't really cook. We've
34:53always like eating out whenever it's my
34:55turn. So I just said, "Hey, listen. You
34:58know, we'll go out to dinner." We did
35:00all this Thanksgiving. tried to make it
35:02up the best that I could get cuz I'm not
35:04I'm not his mom, but he wanted to be
35:08there with with the family, you know,
35:10because it's the holidays and that's
35:12what he's, you know, used to.
35:14>> And then of course Christmas came around
35:15and then the same thing kind of happened
35:17at Christmas, but then we worked it out
35:18and I we figured out a plan to get them
35:21home for Christmas so that they would be
35:22able to.
35:23>> So you went to Nana's for Christmas,
35:24>> spend time with the family. Yeah.
35:25Because mom never had a like a house
35:28house. So Albert said it's okay if they
35:32go and then they just have to get in
35:33Nana's house. Um and that was our
35:36biggest worries like um have you ever
35:38been here before today?
35:41>> Okay. So like if you like look on the
35:42boulevard and things like that there's a
35:44lot of like uh hotels like not the best
35:47places and that was where they were
35:48staying at one point you know when they
35:49would come and so that was why we were
35:51like no it has to be
35:52>> the house.
35:53>> Yeah.
35:55So then is Ganon responsible for taking
35:58his own he has ADHD medicine, right?
36:01Does he do that on his own? Do you help
36:02him with that?
36:03>> Um most of the time like how this how it
36:05worked is I got all lunch boxes ready.
36:08Set them on and been in the house or the
36:10stove up in the corner by the
36:12refrigerator. We would set you know the
36:14lunch boxes out snacks and let him pick.
36:16K usually always pick before Elena
36:18because he just knew that he could get
36:20it. If he beat her up, he could pick the
36:22snacks he wanted, you know. So he would
36:24pick the snacks that he wanted and I
36:26would lay his if Albert wasn't getting
36:29them up I would lay his ADHD medicine
36:31which is Vance 20 milligrams. I would
36:33lay his Vance on the counter and
36:35>> what form is it just tablet or
36:37>> Yeah.
36:38>> Okay.
36:38>> Yeah. So I would lay it on the counter
36:40and he would know you know come in and
36:42take it.
36:42>> How does he take it? Is it with water or
36:45Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't even use
36:46Mark half the time. He just
36:48>> take he's taking it since he was five.
36:50>> Okay. So,
36:51>> is there any other that he's on or no?
36:53Like aderall or anything?
36:54>> No, I don't know. I think when they were
36:56when he was like five, they like tried a
36:58one medicine, but the viance worked.
37:00That was it. Like that was the
37:02>> that was the one.
37:03>> Any of the other kids on medication?
37:05>> Harley or No. Okay.
37:07>> No, no, I don't was on any kind of
37:09>> What about you or Al?
37:11>> I don't know anything other than when I
37:13told you about
37:14>> um the Lazipan. But see the thing about
37:16Lrazzop was they might give it to me and
37:18I might not get it again for 6 months
37:20and like it might be a you know 30
37:22tablets but it was only for like panic
37:24attacks or things like that. As far as
37:26Albert I know he has the gout so I know
37:29he I don't I don't even know what it's
37:31called. I'm sure it's nothing that
37:32>> but nothing that he could again could
37:34mix up medications with or whatever in
37:36the morning take somebody else's meds or
37:39anything.
37:39>> Not not that I'm aware. Now, there's
37:41stuff in the counter from like probably
37:43old stuff or like, you know, like uh
37:46Carly had a wisdom teeth taken out. I
37:48think Albert did, but I'm pretty sure he
37:50might have been signed to get rid of
37:51that stuff. I'm not sure.
37:53>> Um, but none of us had like any like a
37:57what you want to call hardcore drugs or
37:59or anything like that.
38:00>> That's why I'm asking you that because
38:02of the bath salt deal that he came up
38:04with, you know, that was on the hype
38:05day. Okay, so the bath salt thing was
38:08just totally because they did this drug
38:10class at school, which is the same class
38:12that my fifth grade did, too. And it's
38:15where these people came in and they
38:17dressed up in like they I say dress,
38:19they were professionals. They are
38:21medical professionals. They dressed in
38:23their outfits and all those things. They
38:25let the kids like um pretend they were
38:28working on like uh what do we call those
38:31things, you know, like as if they were
38:33going CPR and all. And during that time
38:35frame, they went over all these
38:37different drugs. So they talked about
38:39what what your life is on crack. They
38:41talked about doing cocaine. Like all
38:43these like it was very
38:45very like indepth for fifth grade. But
38:47at the same time, you guys think it was
38:49probably a good thing to to kind of talk
38:52to kids.
38:53>> So was Gon telling you about this or did
38:55you find out from a teacher or how did
38:57you find out they had this in-depth
38:58conversation?
38:59>> Well, I knew because they did it our
39:00school first.
39:01>> So they did it our school first. So it
39:04was something once they found that data
39:06at our school and they saw like all the
39:07cool pictures and things of that other
39:09teachers wanted to know about it. So
39:11when the other teachers want to know
39:12about it, they you know went around
39:14different schools and then they signed
39:15like I think Albert signed a permission
39:18slip or maybe sent email to the teacher
39:19or whatever that it was okay for him to
39:21do it.
39:22>> So was Ganon fascinated with the basalt
39:25thing or how how did that conversation
39:27happen? Cuz I know that seemed to be
39:29important
39:31you know during the hike and afterwards
39:32and whatever. Well, he was like, "Okay,
39:35so
39:37Mike apparently
39:40would deliver these packages and we
39:42never knew what they were. They were
39:43told me, we were told whatever. We don't
39:45know." But Albert would always talk to
39:48um Ganon about anytime people had
39:50anything to do with like, you know,
39:52drugs and things of that sort, he would
39:55always say like, "These are bad people.
39:57If you see anything like this, this is
39:59bad things." So it's
40:00>> Ganon already had like some sort of base
40:03foundation about it,
40:06>> you know, and because he had like like
40:09that sort of base foundation about it,
40:11he always had like uh questions because
40:16the main concern was first one like
40:19>> that and that was that was that was
40:21always his main concern is that he was
40:23wanting to know because baby Nova going
40:26to be okay? You know, right? Is baby
40:28Nova going to be okay? And that was like
40:29his main concern in that aspect, you
40:31know, was wanting to know these things
40:34because he he was just curious of how
40:37like all these things worked.
40:38>> So, were you guys on the hike when he
40:40brought it up or where were you?
40:41>> He had already brought it up prior to
40:43the hike.
40:44>> Okay.
40:44>> He had already said something when he
40:46came home after this.
40:48>> Was it a concern for you? Tell me what
40:50he said and how your conversation
40:52>> I don't honestly sir. I don't remember.
40:54I just remember he was telling us about
40:56the different things that they were
40:57talking about and then I was like, "Oh,
41:00did you guys do this?" And they would be
41:01like, "Yeah." Then I was like, "Oh, did
41:02y'all do this?" So it was kind of like
41:03mimic the same way.
41:04>> Mhm.
41:05>> So we did talk about that a lot.
41:07>> Was that before hike you said?
41:09>> Yeah. Leading up to it before the hike
41:11there was a lot of talk about it, you
41:12know, for a little bit and then of
41:14course um at the hike I think he said a
41:18few things.
41:19>> What did he say?
41:20>> I just I just remember he was talking to
41:22me. Was it concerning to you what he was
41:24saying? Like he really wanted to try
41:26these things or what?
41:27>> Like I didn't think anything about him
41:29wanting to try any of it or to um do
41:34anything with it. Um I know that he I
41:38said something about it and I gave him a
41:40bath bomb.
41:41>> When he said something, what did he say?
41:43>> He just asked me about in general about
41:46if we had bath salts because to be
41:48honest with you, he had already pooped
41:49how many times in his pants? So he said
41:51that after he pooped on the hike.
41:54>> He pooped a couple of times on the hike.
41:55Yeah. Like when I say poop, I don't mean
41:57like
41:59it might be like graphic, but just a
42:02little
42:02>> just a little bit to where comfortable
42:04and whatever,
42:04>> right? And so it the whole thing was
42:07just I think he just wanted to like
42:09relax cuz he took two end up taking two
42:11baths. So I mean
42:15>> and this I don't want to be weird but
42:16are you giving him baths? Is he taking
42:18>> No. Dana goes by himself and he just,
42:22you know, he's very like helpful,
42:25independent. Like I've taught him so
42:26many independent skills where he can go
42:29in there and just now he'll forget to
42:32like bring his clothes up or Right.
42:35>> You know, those simple things like that.
42:36But
42:38>> Okay. So, he he takes two baths that
42:41night or one bath that night, one the
42:43next morning or
42:44>> No. So, I think when we got home, he
42:46took one. Me and Elena went to go get
42:48food. Um, and then I think he had used
42:51the bathroom again. Um, so he took
42:53another one. I think when me and Lena
42:54got back, we were taking a bath. I don't
42:57really remember. And then she took one
43:00somehow.
43:01Um,
43:02>> cuz they share a bathroom in the
43:03basement.
43:04>> No.
43:04>> No.
43:05>> Mm-m.
43:06>> So,
43:07>> no one. The basement was used by Harley.
43:10>> Okay.
43:12So, where's his bedroom?
43:14>> Bedroom. Okay. So the bedroom was
43:16downstairs, but the bathroom, remember,
43:18is like where Harley's room is at.
43:20>> That's right. So where did he take the
43:22bath? Upstairs.
43:23>> Yeah. So So the bath's upstairs. Got it.
43:26>> Um, usually what?
43:28>> And what what happens with the clothes?
43:29Does he kind of poop in?
43:31>> What do you mean?
43:32>> Does he throw them in the washer? Do you
43:33have to take care of it or
43:35>> I don't wash anyone's clothes? But
43:36>> do you not? Does he take care of his own
43:38clothes?
43:39>> Well, we get on him about if you want to
43:41earn technology time, you know, you have
43:43to go do your own clothes. you have to
43:45like have toys around the house and you
43:47have to do all these things. So that's
43:48what that's kind of like how it worked.
43:50It was everybody had their own I don't
43:53even do Albert's clothes,
43:55>> right?
43:56>> Like I don't even you know
43:58>> that's good 11year-old taking care of
44:00yourself.
44:00>> Well, not even necessarily taking care
44:01of
44:02>> Well, just in that aspect,
44:03>> right? Right. He was he was so like uh
44:08like a boy in the terms of clean clothes
44:11like he could wear the same he will
44:13he'll wear the same shirt like two days
44:16you have to be like go change it.
44:17>> So what does an argument look like with
44:19Ganon? Have you guys ever argued?
44:21>> Um like maybe like in Myrtle Beach, you
44:24know, uh we would have been like we had
44:26we're so much alike. So we are so much
44:28alike in terms of we both have stomach
44:30problems really really bad.
44:32um we both have like uh anxieties so
44:35like so to speak, you know, and um
44:39>> he's so like he's so like kind and and
44:42like uh um kind-hearted to and then the
44:46point of like we can get upset about
44:48something, but then the next minute
44:50he'll be like I am. he'll be like, "Oh,
44:52you know, talk about something or we'll
44:55just say something or and he had
44:59tremendously increase the amount
45:03in Myrtle Beach. I don't think I ever
45:05heard him be like um I love you or like
45:09you know like
45:11I mean like the holiday might come you
45:13know they just say oh just write
45:16something whatever but like since having
45:18him all the time it became more like I I
45:22would hear I love you like like almost
45:24all the time you know and so I feel like
45:27it was
45:28>> the holiday the Christmas before is that
45:30what you're saying he disappeared
45:32>> what now
45:32>> when you said around the holiday he
45:34saying I love you.
45:35>> I'm saying like once Yeah. Yeah. Once we
45:37started more and more having um then he
45:41and I became a lot closer because of
45:43just like wanting to have that
45:47connection with both the kids.
45:49>> Surely you had some arguments with him
45:51though. Did you ever have to discipline
45:53him or No.
45:53>> Well, I never ever have never spanked
45:56any of the children. Never. Cuz I just
45:58don't believe in spanking other people's
46:00kids. So, never had that. Now, as far as
46:02like, okay, you are in trouble, you're
46:04going to do this. Yeah, that's with any
46:06kid, with any other.
46:08>> What's What's the biggest disagreement
46:09you had with Canon?
46:10>> Uh, let's see. the biggest disagreement
46:15I think
46:17probably because
46:19he doesn't and again he probably
46:21shouldn't have this on him as a kid but
46:24not like seeing the light of
46:29how he couldn't if he couldn't go home.
46:31He was so like, you know, kind of like
46:34forgiving like it's okay mommy don't
46:36have money to do this, you know. And if
46:40I said anything like, well, and I
46:42probably shouldn't have, but I did. I
46:44would be like, well, she quit doing
46:46this, we could she could pay for it. And
46:48I would always figure out a way. But
46:51then it was like,
46:53you know, I'd say I I wanted him to see
46:55that.
46:56>> So, was this a certain instident?
46:58Do you want to know
46:59>> the biggest disagreements you had? Was
47:01this a certain time or you
47:02>> No, we never had like big like there was
47:04never any like big all out like are you
47:09when you say disagreement clashes or
47:11like screaming shouting?
47:12>> I'm a parent so I've had mine
47:15disagreements yelling.
47:16>> Yeah. Yeah. Like like that kind of
47:18disagreement but never not like a
47:20>> So what's the most upset you've been
47:21with
47:22>> where we've like
47:23>> where you've had to yell and I've had to
47:25yell at my kids.
47:26>> I got you. I see what you're saying. So,
47:27like where we've had to like fuss at
47:29each other over
47:30>> whether or not he did something if he
47:33did something right.
47:33>> That has to happen if you're a parent.
47:35>> Right. Right. I didn't know what you
47:36were saying. I thought you were asking
47:37me like
47:38>> No, I'm more I'm more looking at this
47:39from Ganon's point of view. I'm not
47:41judging you.
47:41>> No, I thought you were asking me more of
47:43like, you know, like
47:45>> like whipping or like switches or or
47:48like or like something like that. No.
47:49>> So, what's the most intense time you've
47:51had with Gamon as far as you're yelling,
47:53he's yelling, that sort of thing? Um,
47:56>> that has to have happened, especially
47:57with stuff kids.
47:58>> I mean, yeah, of course.
48:01>> So, what what time do you remember?
48:04>> Uh,
48:06probably times that I don't remember
48:07specific times. I can say it all
48:08revolved around Albert like not being
48:11disciplined
48:13enough.
48:13>> Yeah. When Ganon was just doing
48:15something that's totally irrational,
48:17unreasonable. I have a boy. I know.
48:19>> Yeah.
48:19>> They don't behave all the time,
48:21>> right? What did Ganon
48:24>> I don't know of any like specifics. I
48:26just know that we would have, you know,
48:28like if it would have been something
48:29that wasn't in what our teachings were,
48:31we would have of course like yell.
48:34>> So you never had to yell at him that you
48:36remember?
48:36>> I said I just said I just said that to
48:38you. I said I there have been plenty of
48:40times.
48:40>> Yeah, but I mean a specific one.
48:42>> I don't know. I don't know a specific
48:45one. I mean probably from playing.
48:47>> So I can tell you for me is when my my
48:49son rolled a basketball underneath me. I
48:51was going to go in for a layup and I
48:52almost twisted my ankle and broke my
48:55back at the same time.
48:56>> Oh goodness.
48:56>> And I yelled at him.
48:58>> Am I sad I did it now? Yes. But I
49:01couldn't help myself. He was that was a
49:03stupid thing to do. He was just seeing
49:05what if I roll the ball under dad. Not
49:07that I even jumped that high jumper.
49:10>> But
49:10>> yeah.
49:11>> Yeah. That's I couldn't help it. I
49:13turned around yelled him. I didn't hurt
49:15him or anything.
49:16>> Yeah. But that with you being home with
49:19just Ganon and sometimes Elena and
49:22sometimes Harley and Al being on the
49:23road, every once in a while, something
49:25had to go wrong.
49:26>> I mean, when you say go wrong, like
49:27Yeah. I I just
49:28>> And you have to say and you have to set
49:31things right like my son did with me
49:33with the basketball.
49:34>> Oh, yeah. We That was
49:35>> And I'm curious as far as how Ganon
49:36would react if you have to really get on
49:38to him for something that he did that
49:40was stupid. He's a boy.
49:41>> Yeah. Ganon wouldn't like yell back.
49:44Ganon would not like yell back and be
49:46like uh you know like confrontational.
49:51So Ganon would not like
49:53he might say something smart.
49:55>> How did he react
49:56>> under his breath?
49:57>> Do you have an incident you remember or
49:59no?
50:00>> And you had to put your foot down and
50:01say again and that's not acceptable.
50:03>> No. Like if I said that he pretty much
50:06listened to to to what I said. Yeah. was
50:09like not I don't remember us him
50:11screaming back at me at any
50:13>> or just going in his room slamming the
50:15door anything like that
50:17>> uh slamming a door room I mean TV but I
50:22mean I don't
50:23>> so more so of me like saying something
50:26to Albert might have been more of the if
50:28there was slamming doors or anything it
50:30could have been me like going back
50:31saying Albert you need to make sure he's
50:33not doing this and then you know in
50:36there in that situation Okay.
50:38>> You know, like Albert was teaching him
50:40how to use a
50:43a box cutter and like different things
50:45like that. And there was times that I
50:47might have been like, "Oh, Albert, I
50:49don't think you should have done this
50:50because he was acting weird in this
50:52way." But that would have been early in
50:54the beginning before we started getting
50:55him like counseling.
50:57>> So once he started getting, you know,
50:59like
50:59>> now remind me the counseling. What was
51:01that for?
51:02>> Do what now?
51:02>> The counseling. Um, so Albert said that
51:05he should get counseling uh through the
51:07military just for like all the
51:09transitions and being like in and out of
51:11schools and like all different things
51:13like that just to make sure that his uh
51:15mental like like well-being was fine.
51:18And Albert said that anytime he would,
51:21you know, of course counselors can't
51:22tell you, you know, like what was going
51:24on unless it was something, you know,
51:26pressing and of course Albert would
51:28always come out and say that say
51:29everything's fine and then Gana would
51:31come back and tell us what he talked
51:32about.
51:33But as far as like
51:35>> did did a Dana never come at you with a
51:38knife or something when there an
51:39incident?
51:40>> Well, that's what I was just telling you
51:41about there was when Albert I told you
51:43Albert was trying to teach him how to
51:44use a
51:45>> that's the box cutter.
51:46>> The box cutter. Yeah. So he the Ganon
51:49had this thing about the M knife and he
51:51was doing like this and and whoever told
51:53you that it was coming at me that is not
51:56>> that's why I'm asking you. I'm getting
51:58the real story here.
51:59>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I know
52:01you've got stories from everywhere and
52:02you probably are not looking at me for
52:04mine but my but that is not what
52:05happened. Gana was in a upset which the
52:09video was shown to the council lady and
52:12Albert was so upset because he was like
52:14um you should have let me get the video
52:16or something like that but Ganon was in
52:18more of like a an upset rage because
52:21this was in the very beginning when he
52:24had to first transition yet to a yet
52:26another school.
52:27>> Was this fall?
52:28>> No. So this would have been I don't know
52:30if it would have been fall but okay. So
52:31fourth grade new school uh
52:36home school then they went to the first
52:38school in Colorado and then a new school
52:40opened.
52:40>> Correct.
52:40>> So it was somewhere between that time
52:42frame of it was it was too much
52:44transitions for him that had nothing to
52:47do with him being mad at me or being mad
52:49at Albert or Landon or whatever. It was
52:52too much transitions for him that he was
52:53so upset like you know like
52:55>> so where was he when he was doing this?
52:57Was he in his room? I feel like it was
52:59in the kitchen. I I don't really
53:02remember, sir. You're asking me
53:03something that was
53:04>> That was a while ago. I don't remember.
53:06I mean,
53:07>> were you threatened by Ganon doing that?
53:09Did it make you nervous?
53:10>> Well, I told Albert I said it I said it
53:12has a mentality like in my mind I said
53:15it has a mentality of like he's going to
53:17want to I said not hurt himself or not
53:21specifically hurt someone in general but
53:23to I mean specific but in general. And
53:26so like I was a little worried because I
53:28thought,
53:29you know, like he has so much anger and
53:33aggression for what was going on because
53:36it it honestly was Albert hadn't even
53:39got there yet. I feel like I feel like
53:40Albert had just either got to Colorado
53:43or hadn't got there yet,
53:45>> right?
53:45>> And so he had to go from being with his
53:48mom back to me and then Albert wasn't
53:51there.
53:51>> Mhm. And then it was okay like I got to
53:55go to do this. I got to start a new
53:57school. I got to get make new friends,
53:59you know, like all those things.
54:00>> How did you handle it? How did you calm
54:02him down?
54:04>> He just typically always
54:06>> I'm specifically with the box cutter
54:08thing. How did you calm him down?
54:09>> I don't I don't know if it it was a
54:11knife he had then. I was just saying
54:12like he had been using a box cutter. So
54:14that's how he was I was teaching him to
54:16try. So I remember I took his amiibo. He
54:19loves amios.
54:21and I took his amiibo and I just threw
54:23his his amiibo out in the front yard and
54:26I told him I was like we're not that the
54:28amibo is gone. We're never getting it
54:30again. And I made him call his mom.
54:32>> Mhm.
54:32>> And so she I don't remember what we
54:36exact said, but I know she was basically
54:38saying like, you know, you better
54:40listen. She gets upset and sends me a
54:42message. I send her a message back and
54:44we were both like mad at each other as
54:46in being landed. And then it was kind of
54:49more of like, okay, it's calmed down.
54:50But this was
54:53>> a a year ago,
54:54>> you know. Um, so that that was the the
54:57gist of that. It was
54:59>> he needed that outlet.
55:02>> Okay.
55:02>> He needed that coun.
55:03>> Well, that helps us. That's what I'm
55:04talking about with the victimology
55:06thing.
55:06>> He needed that. He needed about him.
55:10He needed that um
55:13um outlet to be able to say, "Okay, when
55:18I have anger and I have upset," cuz see,
55:20typically, like I said, Genanon doesn't
55:22get angry and just,
55:24>> you know, lash out or or or say anything
55:27like that. He doesn't he doesn't like
55:30or if he says something smart back to
55:32Albert, it's usually a a he's very
55:34literal. He'll say something and then be
55:36like, "Oh my gosh, you know, I should
55:38have done that." Right.
55:39>> Um, so that's in your uh assessment of
55:43him there may I could probably count on
55:45one one hand the times that Gana would
55:47have been uh
55:49>> aggressive like that,
55:50>> right? And not even to the point of
55:52aggressive of like he actually acted
55:54upon it other than showing signs. And I
55:56think once we got the counseling in
55:59place, um, he was able to have his
56:03friends now. Oh, he knew he was in a
56:05place that
56:07>> I don't think they're watching through
56:09this. This is a brand new thing. That's
56:11even They even said it's like backwards
56:14because the camera's there,
56:15>> but the windows there, so the seat
56:17should be there anyway.
56:18>> But, um, no, I just didn't know cuz I
56:20thought I heard a fire alarm. Um, so he
56:22never like really just, you know,
56:27um, had a hard time until the
56:29counseling. Once account counseling was
56:31in in play, I seen leaps in the way that
56:36not only he acted but our relationship
56:40um with each other um relationship with
56:43dealing with Okay, go do this. Um, sir,
56:47it's so hard because
56:49>> I'm sorry,
56:50>> I'm old, but don't
56:52>> John is so hard because
56:55if I get up in the morning and I I have
57:00Dan would even say, "You want me to take
57:02the dogs out so you can have 10 more
57:04minutes to sleep?" And he I convinced
57:06him into changing my name.
57:07>> So, I had him on board of like calling
57:10me a different name, you know, and so
57:11because I didn't know like my original
57:13name. So I had him on board calling me a
57:15different name. Um so
57:18the helpfulness through not only just
57:21the counseling and then having that
57:22stability became
57:27so great for him.
57:29>> Okay.
57:29>> And and that's the the piece that I
57:34really wish you know like I know you sit
57:36here and say you've heard people say
57:37stuff or talk or you know whatever. and
57:40you've you've spent your career going
57:42through people who you've had to help
57:44and people who you've no [ __ ] or
57:47whatever, but Ganon benefited so much
57:51from the girls from going in there that
57:53he was able to talk to us and that's
57:55when I started hearing more of like,
57:57okay, I love you. and he would say
58:01hardly like they never really like he
58:04never really he would say it but like
58:06not that like situation of like oh I
58:08love you and like the affection and
58:10things like that and that began to uh I
58:13would thought we were on a path for him
58:15really to see that
58:17I could be more of more I don't just
58:20want to take nobody's place as a mom but
58:22be more of a right
58:23>> like a a mom figure to him and that was
58:26where I felt like we were we were
58:28definitely headed
58:29>> well that's helping
58:30in that situation.
58:31>> So, that kind of answers the bath salts
58:34thing. He He really wasn't looking to He
58:37wasn't outright asking you, I I want to
58:39get high off of bath salts.
58:40>> No. No. Um I think that it was more of a
58:44situation with
58:47they were going to school in a a school
58:49that had older kids. And I think it was
58:52just more of a they heard these. This is
58:55speculation. And I'm just telling you
58:56what my observation is based upon how I
58:59heard them talk and you know people talk
59:01cuz they were just wanting I say like to
59:05fit in per se and it was just a
59:08situation where Dana would do whatever
59:10in order to just be play games and and
59:13just do you said you have a boy.
59:16>> Yeah.
59:16>> And that was that was in the the gist of
59:20it. Like you could I could tell Gand do
59:22you want to play your Switch? Okay. Will
59:23you help me go do this? we go take
59:24charge.
59:26And so he was in such a yes sir, yes
59:29ma'am mode of giving technology, you can
59:32do it. And I think that was hard going
59:34to school with kids that were a little
59:36older and coming home in the bus. They
59:39had the same, you know, you have some
59:41boys who get to do a little more than
59:43others. And I from fa this is based upon
59:46my assumption just from talking to him
59:48like when we're talking about it on the
59:50hike is that there was just more you
59:53know like not pressure maybe kind of
59:56social peer pressure but there was just
59:57more of like wanting to know what could
59:59I do to get this person to like me to
1:00:02because he only liked certain friends
1:00:04and those were his people he would
1:00:06obsess on like had a friend named Connor
1:00:08that's the person he obsessed on name
1:00:10Braden that's the person he obsessed on
1:00:11so someone liked the interest that he
1:00:13liked
1:00:14he will like develop bad fashion on them
1:00:16and just want to not a bad session. I
1:00:18don't mean like a he wants that that
1:00:21that's the person he wants to hang out
1:00:22with. He didn't have, you know, 27
1:00:25friends. He had just that person.
1:00:27>> And so that was what
1:00:29>> and I think I feel like with that that's
1:00:31where we were at in that situation of
1:00:32just trying to, you know, this thing is
1:00:35bad, but I understand you have a friend
1:00:38who wants to do this, you know, that
1:00:39type of thing.
1:00:40>> And that was
1:00:41>> that that helps. Yeah. And
1:00:43>> so so that helps with the bath salts and
1:00:46and I'm trying to see how Ganon reacted
1:00:48to these little things that happened to
1:00:49him until he went missing.
1:00:51>> Uh the candle incident. Can you tell me
1:00:54about that?
1:00:56>> Okay. So Ganon wanted to I don't
1:00:59remember if he wanted to stay up 30
1:01:02minutes. I can't remember. There was
1:01:03something he did that allowed him to
1:01:05earn some extra time. There was
1:01:07something he did. But Albert had
1:01:09grounded him from playing the switch. So
1:01:12he wasn't allowed to, you know, play a
1:01:13switch or whatever. He was only allowed
1:01:15to um like if he wanted to watch an
1:01:17extra movie or something like that that
1:01:20he had,
1:01:20>> right?
1:01:21>> Well, on the hike earlier that day, he
1:01:23was so helpful with me and people think
1:01:26he was sick and he still whatever, but I
1:01:28have serious stomach issues and still
1:01:29have to operate, but he was so helpful
1:01:32with uh you know, taking care of the
1:01:35dogs and stuff and I had told um Ganon
1:01:38that you know Yeah. So like that Sunday
1:01:42is the day that Kobe had passed away.
1:01:44>> So if I remember that.
1:01:46>> So we sat around and you know we had
1:01:49like before we lived we were like on the
1:01:51sofa and I'm just like crying and he's
1:01:53like why are you crying and we're just
1:01:55like he didn't know who that was. Like
1:01:57he knew the name but not like growing up
1:01:59in like my generation to like know who
1:02:01that was. So we just sat there and like
1:02:03talked about it in the toilet was like
1:02:04you know Kobe had all girls and so Gina
1:02:08started relating in the terms of being
1:02:09like oh that's you know like me I have
1:02:12all sisters and so like you know we were
1:02:14talking about that and then in between
1:02:15some of those questions might have been
1:02:17certain questions that led to what he
1:02:20was asking me about what went on at
1:02:21school in that
1:02:22>> in that theme that in that talk
1:02:24>> and so that led into on the walk on the
1:02:27hike that day about what we had talked
1:02:28about so then that evening I don't
1:02:30remember what he did but I remember I
1:02:31said he had 30 minutes of something
1:02:33extra and I I knew it wasn't his um
1:02:35Nintendo or things like that at the time
1:02:37cuz he wasn't supposed to earn that back
1:02:38until the next day. Um and so then um it
1:02:44we had I think I was upstairs you know
1:02:47Harley wasn't there cuz Harley had to
1:02:49work until Junction VR like this Harley
1:02:52had to work until I think it was like
1:02:53maybe 10:15 or soish whatever. Um and
1:02:56then um Ganon had I think what was he
1:03:02doing? He was doing something I don't
1:03:03remember. So I go back upstairs then I
1:03:06hear the machine was saying like beep
1:03:09beep beep like is someone was coming in
1:03:11the house.
1:03:11>> Okay.
1:03:12>> So I put the code in thinking that the
1:03:15live alarm thing went off. There was no
1:03:16doors open or you know none of that
1:03:19stuff. No doors open. Um, so then I go
1:03:23back where Lady was at and I see she was
1:03:26faking sleeping but not really sleeping.
1:03:28>> And then um, but she had like the cover
1:03:30of her head a little bit and so like she
1:03:33was doing like whatever.
1:03:34>> And so then I hear the thing saying fire
1:03:38like the
1:03:39>> Does it actually say fire?
1:03:40>> It said fire.
1:03:41>> Okay.
1:03:41>> So that was the crazy thing because I
1:03:43never had heard I didn't know what I
1:03:45thought it would just be like
1:03:47>> right like a siren. But I don't know if
1:03:48it was those detector things saying fire
1:03:51or if it was the actual um machine
1:03:54things saying fire. Um but it was just
1:03:57like fire, fire, fire, fire, whatever.
1:04:00Um so then I run back in there and I
1:04:02look and I see I don't see anything in
1:04:04L's room. I don't see anything. I look
1:04:06downstairs and I don't see anything. And
1:04:08it was just it was still going. So I
1:04:11grabbed Lena. I'm not going to tell you
1:04:13exactly wrong, but I'm pretty sure I
1:04:14grabbed Lena first and I grabbed the
1:04:16dogs. I gave her the keys. I think
1:04:18that's how it went. Don't quote me on
1:04:20that, but I'm sure it was in that order
1:04:21somehow.
1:04:22>> And we run out to the truck with the
1:04:25lake. Either I open the door. I don't
1:04:28remember. Somehow they get to to the
1:04:30truck.
1:04:30>> Okay.
1:04:31>> Um and then I run back downstairs cuz at
1:04:33this point I already know that there's
1:04:35there's smoke
1:04:36>> and so I run back downstairs and run
1:04:39back downstairs and Diana was awake but
1:04:41not awake. Like you know how you can
1:04:42almost like be asleep but not asleep
1:04:44type thing. in his bed.
1:04:46>> No, no, no. He wasn't in his bed.
1:04:48>> Where was he?
1:04:48>> He was on the sofa.
1:04:49>> On the sofa.
1:04:50>> Right. Right. So, um, he was on the
1:04:52sofa. And so, like when I pull the
1:04:55cover, I pull Ganon with the cover. And
1:04:58so, at this point in time, then I put
1:05:00the the fire that's out.
1:05:02>> What did the fire look like?
1:05:04>> Uh, it wasn't wasn't like huge.
1:05:07>> Where was it? In the carpet, on the
1:05:09sofa.
1:05:10>> Uh, I feel like it was on like one of
1:05:11the covers.
1:05:13>> On the covers. Was the cover on the sofa
1:05:15though or was it on the floor?
1:05:17>> I don't remember. I just remember it was
1:05:20in the small location. It wasn't a big
1:05:22enough fire to to like
1:05:26>> What color was it? Do you remember? Was
1:05:28it yellow, red, orange?
1:05:29>> I don't remember. What color? Wasn't in
1:05:31a color. I mean, wasn't it?
1:05:33>> Because I think what blue burns the
1:05:35hottest. Then you have stuff. If stuff
1:05:37gets involved in the fire, you have a
1:05:39yellowish or reddish color.
1:05:41>> I don't remember.
1:05:41>> Don't remember.
1:05:42>> I don't remember. Oh, can you show me
1:05:44how tall it was? Like, do you
1:05:46>> remember? It wasn't tall.
1:05:47>> Wasn't tall.
1:05:48>> I don't feel like it was that tall. I
1:05:49But my tall might be different from your
1:05:51tall, so I don't want to say
1:05:53>> still. A fire is going to freak you out,
1:05:54right?
1:05:55>> Right. Yeah. So, I when I pull the
1:05:57cover, I pull um him with the cover,
1:06:00too, and we run out. Did you put out the
1:06:03fire or No,
1:06:05>> I know that we took the covers, both of
1:06:08us, when when he sees what's going on,
1:06:09we took the covers and like we smashed
1:06:11down on the
1:06:13>> on the fire
1:06:14>> like on it. Yeah, cuz my own thought was
1:06:16oxygen, put it out. That was all I could
1:06:18think about. Like, you know, put it out
1:06:20whatever.
1:06:21>> Did Did it take much? Sorry to
1:06:22interrupt. Did Did it take a lot to put
1:06:24it out or No. Or did you just smother it
1:06:27and then move?
1:06:29>> I don't.
1:06:29>> Or was it something in between? You was
1:06:32there what now?
1:06:32>> Something in between. You know, I'm not
1:06:34trying to put words in your mouth.
1:06:36>> Something in between.
1:06:37>> Like in between just it happened real
1:06:39quick or you had to fight it for a while
1:06:40or
1:06:41>> Oh, it wasn't like fighting for a while.
1:06:42Like there was already a bunch of covers
1:06:44on the side that we had to I had grabbed
1:06:46them all and put it here which is why
1:06:47the whole thing was bald covers where
1:06:50like covers bald up everywhere. So
1:06:52there's like stuff there. Um and then I
1:06:55run and he's running behind me. So, as
1:06:58I'm running up, he like trips or
1:07:02whatever, but he's right behind me.
1:07:04>> So, then I think I exit back out the
1:07:06garage. I feel like um
1:07:08>> So, the truck was in the garage.
1:07:09>> No, no, no, no, no. It was out front.
1:07:11I'm saying like I think I I I think I
1:07:13exited back out the garage.
1:07:15>> Um cuz I feel like I just ran back to
1:07:17that door. I'm not I'm not 100%
1:07:19positive. I know we ran out. Then Gana
1:07:21runs right right out behind me. And when
1:07:24um I'm I turn around and I I'm saying
1:07:27something to him because I'm like,
1:07:28"Hey," because in my mind I don't
1:07:30remember if I had gotten the dogs even
1:07:33though I had already had grabbed the
1:07:35dogs. And so like he's I don't remember
1:07:37what we were saying, but we were all in
1:07:38a frantic, you know, whatever. He jumped
1:07:40in the driver's I'm sorry, passenger
1:07:43side and I'm in the driver's side of the
1:07:46truck.
1:07:46>> Okay.
1:07:47>> Lena is in the back and at that point we
1:07:50drive off. So, we drive off for an
1:07:53elephant minute maybe and then um we
1:07:56drive back, but there's no gas in it.
1:07:58>> So, was anybody burned from that?
1:07:59>> So, Gon had
1:08:00>> you or Ganon?
1:08:01>> Ganon had a little like little burns on
1:08:03his arms uh from that. And then um but
1:08:07at the time, Sean always lays like his
1:08:11uh either like his just underwear on or
1:08:14like or like something like that. So, um
1:08:17at the time when we ran out, I feel like
1:08:19did he have a shirt? I don't remember if
1:08:21he grabbed a shirt or grabbed another
1:08:22cover when we ran out or whatever, but I
1:08:25knew that he had some burns on his arm,
1:08:27but I know they weren't like they
1:08:29weren't bad like burns that were bad.
1:08:32They were just like uh if you peel it a
1:08:34little bit or whatever.
1:08:35>> Were they discolored then? Was the skin
1:08:37reddish, pinkish? What was it? Did you
1:08:40see it then or
1:08:40>> not? No, it was not till later that I
1:08:42really like paid attention and should
1:08:44have been like, "Okay, well, you know,
1:08:47cuz I did later on it, which you can
1:08:50mess with later, but okay."
1:08:51>> Um,
1:08:52>> so yeah, so like our arms I mean our
1:08:55arms um his arms and then we get in the
1:08:58truck or whatever and then we drive off.
1:09:00So then we come back and so I'm of
1:09:03course I'm like I text Harley, I text
1:09:06Albert, you know what had happened and I
1:09:08said, you know, this is what happened.
1:09:11Tell Harley this is what happened. Don't
1:09:12paint it when you come home cuz the
1:09:13house at this point in time we get back
1:09:14in smell like nothing but smoke.
1:09:16>> Mhm.
1:09:18>> And so nothing but smoke at this point
1:09:20in time. And it was just like I couldn't
1:09:21get the smoke out. Even opening up the
1:09:24like windows and all those things, I
1:09:26couldn't get the smoke out. Um, so that
1:09:29was
1:09:31that was
1:09:31>> So what what happened with these covers
1:09:33that you used to put out the plane?
1:09:35>> Well, the covers were either left there
1:09:39um cuz I remember getting the stuff some
1:09:41of the stuff and putting outside in a
1:09:43trash can, which I even showed the
1:09:45people when they got there that I put it
1:09:46in a trash can.
1:09:47>> Do you guys have singular trash cans for
1:09:50each house there or just do you have a
1:09:52dumpster or what?
1:09:54>> Really? like it was a big trash. It's
1:09:55just a big brown trash.
1:09:57>> One of the wheel ones you pull out and
1:09:58put by the curb. Okay.
1:09:59>> Yeah, it was just one of those. Um and
1:10:03it wasn't No one was like whatever. But
1:10:09we did want Albert to like like come
1:10:13home like come not necess.
1:10:16we maybe like had updated a little bit
1:10:18to Albert because we were like thinking,
1:10:22you know, like, oh, he'll be upset and
1:10:24like want to come home anymore, you
1:10:26know, like whatever cuz he was like
1:10:28worried or,
1:10:29>> you know, like whatever. So, my message
1:10:31to Albert probably was a little bit like
1:10:33um a little more overexaggeration just
1:10:36because I was one.
1:10:37>> So, when you say we, did you talk with
1:10:39the kids about let's get Albert home?
1:10:41>> No, no, no. We we we did sit down and
1:10:43because when I was asking him like was
1:10:46this, you know, did you do this on
1:10:47accident? Was this accident, you know,
1:10:49whatever. And so we were just talking
1:10:52about, you know, like the whole thing.
1:10:54Everybody was in one room. Uh, we were
1:10:57all in the bedroom at the time, which
1:10:59was our bedroom upstairs.
1:11:00>> Okay.
1:11:01>> So, we were all in the middle upstairs
1:11:03and it was just, you know, just talking
1:11:06and, you know, whatever. And I said, I
1:11:08got to let your daddy know. And then I
1:11:10was I was not going to tell him. That
1:11:12was the original thing was not to tell
1:11:14him. It was just to fix it and not tell
1:11:16him.
1:11:16>> Mhm.
1:11:17>> Because then I was like, if I just do
1:11:18that and we won't have to, you know, we
1:11:20don't have to worry about it,
1:11:21>> right?
1:11:22>> Um but then that was just an opportunity
1:11:24just to be like, oh well maybe Albert
1:11:26like I just come back home or you know
1:11:27cuz it was hard like you know always all
1:11:31of us just there going through all these
1:11:33memories and and doing all these things
1:11:35without him you know like being there
1:11:38with. So that was that was
1:11:40>> So did Ganon agree that was a good idea
1:11:42to kind of play it up a little bit?
1:11:44>> Did he agree? Yeah, we all we all were
1:11:46in like an agreeance. So
1:11:48>> So how did you play it up? Was the fire
1:11:50really not that big and you made it like
1:11:51it was a big deal or
1:11:53>> Well to so whenever we
1:11:55>> just to get Al to say, "Hey, maybe I
1:11:57should get back home."
1:11:57>> When we were explaining it to to people
1:12:00in general, like that was our whole
1:12:02like, "Oh my gosh, it was like a
1:12:04whatever." Like cuz you had my phone,
1:12:07you saw that like if we the people that
1:12:09we messaged, we made it more of like a,
1:12:11you know, like a bigger situation like
1:12:14than what it than what it really was.
1:12:16And
1:12:17>> yeah, cuz I couldn't understand how a
1:12:19candle could make a big fire cuz my wife
1:12:21lights candles all the time around the
1:12:23house and if we've knocked them over and
1:12:24if you knock it over kind of nothing
1:12:26happens. Yeah. Yeah.
1:12:27>> I mean, it might singe the carpet a
1:12:29little bit, but
1:12:30>> u I've seen the pictures and I'm
1:12:32surprised that, you know, that much of
1:12:34the carpet was burned.
1:12:35>> Well, it was probably because I I mean,
1:12:37I don't know, but I know that we did go
1:12:38like push down on the carpet and it was
1:12:40on the cover because the cover was
1:12:42wrapped up on him,
1:12:43>> right?
1:12:44>> So, I mean, I don't know. Like,
1:12:46>> that's what I was just curious about the
1:12:49burn itself on the carpet cuz that was
1:12:51awfully big for a candle.
1:12:52>> I didn't even think that was even big.
1:12:54Was that really big?
1:12:55>> Yeah. I mean that big for a candle cuz
1:12:57like I said my wife we look like a a
1:13:00church sometimes with all the candles
1:13:01she lights.
1:13:02>> Yeah.
1:13:02>> We have dogs running around and kids.
1:13:04>> Yeah. Yeah. No.
1:13:05>> I was just surprised the candle could
1:13:07make you know a big black
1:13:09>> thing in the carpet that much that it
1:13:11might have been held there for a little
1:13:12while. Maybe he tried to set
1:13:15>> fire. I But see the thing is I don't
1:13:18know that Gana would try to like
1:13:19purposely
1:13:21like set something on fire. I don't
1:13:23know. I know that he did tell me later
1:13:25that he thought that I was coming
1:13:26downstairs and he had he was playing his
1:13:29game. So I
1:13:30>> So he was playing his game when he
1:13:31knocked the candle over.
1:13:33>> Yeah. So he did tell us he told me and
1:13:35Lena and all of us that when we were all
1:13:37talking together, he told us that he
1:13:39thought I was coming downstairs
1:13:42like to catch you on his game, whatever.
1:13:43>> Oh, and that's why he knocked it over.
1:13:45>> Trying to I don't know if he
1:13:48accidentally or thought, you know,
1:13:50whatever. I just know he said that he
1:13:52thought.
1:13:53>> But did he take any responsibility for
1:13:55knocking the candle over or did he just
1:13:57say it happened or what?
1:13:58>> No, he did say that.
1:13:59>> Okay.
1:14:00>> He did say that he had that he had done
1:14:02it that he had started it or whatever.
1:14:03And I asked that's why I kept asking him
1:14:05like did you do it on purpose?
1:14:07>> That's what I'm curious about.
1:14:09>> Or did you you know was it an accident?
1:14:13He told me an accident. He thought I was
1:14:14coming downstairs. So, um, to me, sir,
1:14:19we could afford to buy another
1:14:21>> Yeah, for sure.
1:14:22>> sofa and another carpet.
1:14:25>> That that's not like that's not a
1:14:27problem. Like, I mean, you're talking
1:14:28about like things that we had if and
1:14:31nice things, but we can afford to buy
1:14:33that. So, that's not that was not a
1:14:35point of contention. And Ganon very well
1:14:37would have known back to you.
1:14:39>> So, did it burn it burned the sofa also?
1:14:41>> I don't think it burned the sofa.
1:14:43>> I don't think it burned the sofa. I'm
1:14:45just saying like in general in that area
1:14:46whether if it would have burned sofa
1:14:49pies all that
1:14:51>> right did he light the candle
1:14:52>> he could afford to do it
1:14:54>> candle you know
1:14:55>> the candle was he had already lit the
1:14:57candle because the dogs were have these
1:15:00like really good arms and stuff and so
1:15:02he had already lit the candle which we
1:15:04allowed
1:15:04>> normally do that
1:15:05>> yeah we allowed him to be he could light
1:15:07the candle if he wanted to he was
1:15:09allowed to open like packages that came
1:15:11that's where I was telling Albert taught
1:15:12him how to use like the box cut and
1:15:14stuff like that he was allowed to do
1:15:16those type of things um as long as you
1:15:20know he he was usually within reason
1:15:21like okay I'm not going to go light you
1:15:23know the blind on fire or you know like
1:15:26or something like that when I was little
1:15:28too like I was I did the same thing
1:15:30about curious about matches and you know
1:15:32like things like that but we had already
1:15:34given him enough of you know like safety
1:15:37talks about like Albert when he talked
1:15:39to him about using the box cutters and
1:15:41knives he always showed him the right
1:15:42direction and you know
1:15:44you know, not to just go to like, you
1:15:46know, cut open boxes and stuff. So, he
1:15:49had already had these, you know, like
1:15:52talks about the correct way to do these
1:15:54things.
1:15:56>> Well, explains those two. So, I've got
1:15:58the bath salts, the candle, and now the
1:16:01foot injured in the garage. So, tell me
1:16:03about the
1:16:04>> that the foot injury.
1:16:06>> Oh, sorry. Before I go there so we don't
1:16:07forget, you said peeling these later.
1:16:10>> I just remember that. I just remembered
1:16:12that on Monday. his arm had a little bit
1:16:14of peeling to it. And and that's when I
1:16:17said in my mind and like I told the
1:16:18earlier it was here that I did at that
1:16:21point say, "hm, I probably should like
1:16:24think about if this is if I need to if
1:16:27if later on after I put stuff on it, I
1:16:29need to think about if if it gets worse,
1:16:32you know, monitor the situation, you
1:16:35know, like those type things."
1:16:36>> Did you put stuff on it or no? Well, we
1:16:38had took that green aloe stuff and we
1:16:40had took and put the little cuz the dog
1:16:43had just had bit before. So, I already
1:16:45had that little wrap stuff, you know.
1:16:47Okay.
1:16:47>> And so, we had already done that in that
1:16:49situation.
1:16:50>> Did you put it on both arms?
1:16:52>> I think it was on the right arm, I feel
1:16:54like.
1:16:54>> And when did you do that? Was that
1:16:56Sunday night, Monday morning, both?
1:16:58>> I think it was Sunday night. Okay.
1:17:00>> Um, no, actually it wasn't. It was It
1:17:02was through the night because we stayed
1:17:03up late, so it would have already been
1:17:05Monday morning hours. like into Monday
1:17:08morning out.
1:17:09>> So why were you guys up late?
1:17:10>> Because we couldn't we couldn't breathe.
1:17:12The smell was so like it's like stuck in
1:17:15the house from the smoke. We couldn't
1:17:16breathe no matter what we did.
1:17:17>> So where did you guys hang out until the
1:17:19you could breathe?
1:17:20>> We slept in our room and then we open
1:17:23all the windows downstairs.
1:17:25>> Okay. And all four of you slept in.
1:17:28>> So Lena, Harley,
1:17:31let's see. Lena, Harley, me and him were
1:17:33in the room for a while. Then Ganon went
1:17:37to I think he went to Lena's room at
1:17:39this point. Yeah. So then Ganon went to
1:17:42Lena's room for a while, but then he was
1:17:44in his room by the time he woke up. So I
1:17:46don't know if he got up in
1:17:47>> What time do you think you went to
1:17:48Lena's room?
1:17:50>> Is it after midnight or
1:17:51>> Sure. I don't know.
1:17:52>> When did you call him in sick? It was
1:17:55pretty early in the morning.
1:17:56>> Well, we didn't. What happened is I
1:17:58didn't we didn't All I did was I called
1:17:59and asked about his stomach. It was
1:18:02nothing to do with anything to do with
1:18:04the fire or anything like that. My my
1:18:07question was I had already given him
1:18:09miru which was like you know
1:18:12>> mir.
1:18:13>> So we had a a prescription of over the
1:18:17counter. I say whatever it is
1:18:18prescription miracine or whatever
1:18:20>> and I had already given him that and so
1:18:23then also had XLAX and I thought you
1:18:25know at what point can I not like how
1:18:29much is enough if I can't get him to
1:18:31pass this at what point is there enough
1:18:34or can I go ahead and do like an inlaw
1:18:36or like Albert can tell you I've given
1:18:38him before and like things like that
1:18:40because it gets so bad and it's they
1:18:42just so big and they get clogged up. So
1:18:44that was the the concern about how to
1:18:47get me past that
1:18:50>> cuz like for me I have to like I can
1:18:52drink 10 scoops of Mirax and it
1:18:55>> won't affect you.
1:18:56>> Won't affect me at all. Yeah.
1:18:58>> And so I didn't want it to be where it
1:19:00was the squirts and then also the I
1:19:04didn't the the combination is different
1:19:06than my stomach because like I said if I
1:19:07take 10 of them I I'm okay. So he's
1:19:10having the squirts from the and he
1:19:12started having those in the hike, but he
1:19:14couldn't pass that whole evening. Is
1:19:16that right?
1:19:17>> Right. He would get out balls, like big
1:19:20balls, but like couldn't get like the
1:19:21whole thing out. And that was sometimes
1:19:24if he finally and then when he finally
1:19:25had to be painful, wasn't it? Or
1:19:28>> for me, I lay in the bathroom and I'm in
1:19:30pain like whenever
1:19:32>> was he telling you he was in pain?
1:19:34>> Well, he sits on the toilet. His common
1:19:36thing is that he'll sit on the toilet
1:19:38and just sit there and sit there and sit
1:19:39there. So, as long as he's got something
1:19:40to focus with, again, his pain tolerance
1:19:43is very like high when it comes to just
1:19:45sitting there like focusing and all
1:19:48those things.
1:19:48>> Mhm.
1:19:49>> So, I mean, he he
1:19:51>> So, he spent a lot of time in the
1:19:52bathroom that evening just sitting
1:19:54there.
1:19:54>> Yeah. Off and on the bathroom. We got
1:19:55kids meals, but he came out and ate his
1:19:57kids meal.
1:19:58>> So, it made him feel better. So, I
1:19:59assume
1:20:00>> McDonald's as well.
1:20:01>> No, we um Carl's Junior's
1:20:03>> Carl's Junior. Yeah. So, I had
1:20:05originally said Burger King, but that's
1:20:06not Burger King right there. That's car.
1:20:08Got it.
1:20:08>> Car. Um, cuz I never go to Car, but we
1:20:12got two kids meals and I think I got
1:20:14something, too. And Lena went with me to
1:20:16go get it. Um, so he ate the kids meal
1:20:21when we got back,
1:20:22>> but it still hadn't passed. So,
1:20:23>> well, he if he ate, he had done
1:20:25something. He had already used it some
1:20:28because he wouldn't have eaten.
1:20:30>> And had you given the mir before the
1:20:32meal then? I'd already given him another
1:20:33relax throughout the week. We always had
1:20:35this thing where if I went in there and
1:20:37took one of my shots like of acai
1:20:39berries or something like that, he would
1:20:41take one too. So, it was common for me
1:20:44to be like, "Okay, here mix." And Albert
1:20:46would always say, "Go mix him up one of
1:20:47the drinks because we put an orange
1:20:49juice." Well, he he didn't like juices
1:20:51as much unless it was like Kool-Aid
1:20:52juices like sweet. Um, so it was a
1:20:55common thing to always try to give Mirax
1:20:57the to regulate the system. But the
1:21:00problem is if you don't take the
1:21:02Vibance, say you don't take it for a
1:21:04day, like you didn't take it on Saturday
1:21:07because um the family was in town and
1:21:10say you don't take on Saturday and if
1:21:11you don't take them on Sunday, that's
1:21:13when that's when it starts to happen. So
1:21:15that's when the constipation and the
1:21:18diarrhea kind of go hand in hand. So
1:21:20like let's say if he would have took it
1:21:21Saturday and let's say he would have
1:21:23took it Sunday, he wouldn't have been as
1:21:25bad. Well, then the problem is Albert
1:21:28always would want him not on it if we're
1:21:30going to go do like a big time activity
1:21:31because instead of having him like, you
1:21:33know, zoned out on something, I mean,
1:21:36you would want z out on something.
1:21:38>> Yeah.
1:21:39>> That was the
1:21:39>> by.
1:21:40>> Right. Right. Right. And and so like the
1:21:42thing was if we go somewhere that
1:21:45requires him to have like you know
1:21:47massive amounts of of things then
1:21:52you know that we would we don't want him
1:21:54to be under that 5 and just have to be
1:21:57like zoned in.
1:21:58>> We want him to be able to like
1:22:00especially like on the hike I wanted him
1:22:01to be able to like
1:22:03>> run around and do things cuz me and him
1:22:05were always on the top of all like if we
1:22:07did hikes we were always on the top of
1:22:08heights. You're always the one,
1:22:10>> right?
1:22:10>> You know, leading, doing everything.
1:22:13>> So, was he bleeding that night? Do you
1:22:15know
1:22:15>> from
1:22:16>> correctly?
1:22:18>> Yeah.
1:22:19>> Um, so what happens is from him
1:22:21squeezing
1:22:23uh
1:22:25I hate talking about this, it sounds
1:22:26bad. I talk about like
1:22:28>> I'm trying to figure out Yeah. What is
1:22:29it going on with him these last couple
1:22:31hours?
1:22:31>> Yeah. So, like from him squeezing and
1:22:33stuff like that, his does the same thing
1:22:35as mine does and mine does the same
1:22:36thing. And so that's why I told you for
1:22:37stuff to like and we could relate on
1:22:39that because it was like
1:22:40>> oh my gosh, you know, like blood out
1:22:42your butt, you know, and then just from
1:22:45sneezing and
1:22:46>> Yeah.
1:22:47>> and things like that. And that wasn't
1:22:48like pouring out.
1:22:50>> Okay. So it wasn't a
1:22:51>> copious amount
1:22:53because of him struggling with that all
1:22:55night or that evening into the night.
1:22:57You don't know when he eventually felt
1:22:59good.
1:23:00How it works is he might feel good and
1:23:03then it gets to him where it's hurting
1:23:05still until he gets it all out. It's not
1:23:08until he returns like 100% again being
1:23:10like, "Okay, I'm back to I'm back to
1:23:12Ganon."
1:23:12>> Did he get back to Ganon that night
1:23:14>> for Sunday?
1:23:15>> Yeah.
1:23:16>> Yeah. Uh so he just he was fine when he
1:23:21was downstairs. I told you he earned
1:23:23extra time to be able to stay up and
1:23:26stuff.
1:23:26>> Yeah. But I thought was he not
1:23:28struggling with this after the candle
1:23:29incident,
1:23:30>> right? They come like what happens is is
1:23:32I mean if you want to call in a GI
1:23:34person, but he gets where he's okay and
1:23:37then a little bit more okay and a little
1:23:39bit more. It's just episodes. They
1:23:40happen every once a month there is
1:23:43>> where he goes through those episodes of
1:23:45his stomach and and mine those same
1:23:47thing.
1:23:48>> So when you guys were up in the bedroom,
1:23:49how was he?
1:23:51>> You mean like after
1:23:52>> after the flame and fire and smoke? He
1:23:55was upset and like crying because he
1:23:57thought he was going to lose his switch
1:23:58like for a long time. Like he thought,
1:24:01you know, that he was going to lose his
1:24:02Twitch for a long time. So my biggest
1:24:05thing was I don't care. We'll just do
1:24:07whatever we got to do to buy new ones,
1:24:09buy new whatever. Um I would be quicker
1:24:13to cover up a lot of things for K
1:24:17because
1:24:19we just related on the same the same
1:24:21page more so than Lena because Lena
1:24:23would be the most kind of like brattyish
1:24:26or you know whatever. Um, so Dana could
1:24:29be more of like we can have like secrets
1:24:31and talk and say, "Hey, we're not going
1:24:33to tell them since you're doing this or
1:24:35you know,
1:24:36>> right?"
1:24:36>> Yeah. So I'd be more inclined to to
1:24:40say, "Okay, don't tell anybody. We'll
1:24:42fix it." And so that was kind of like
1:24:44our our conversations
1:24:47what we were talking about. And
1:24:49>> yeah.
1:24:49>> Yeah. And he was he was upset like like
1:24:52very, you know, like upset and hurt and
1:24:56just trying to be whatever, but we also
1:24:58kind of just
1:24:59>> So, how like do you think he stayed up
1:25:01with you in the room until he finally?
1:25:03>> I don't know.
1:25:04>> Was it past midnight or do you know?
1:25:06>> I don't know.
1:25:09>> At this point, so whenever he um went to
1:25:13Lena's room,
1:25:15I think he walked out. I don't I don't
1:25:17remember exactly, but I know we all cuz
1:25:19all four of us couldn't fit in the bed
1:25:21plus two dogs. So, at one point in time,
1:25:24we had to switch the whole like, "Okay,
1:25:26you go sleep here. You go sleep here."
1:25:28And I feel like at one point, Harley was
1:25:30sleeping on sofa and then Harley and
1:25:32Lena switched cuz we were up, like I
1:25:34said, we couldn't breathe. It was It was
1:25:37very smoky. Um, so we were all like not
1:25:40sleeping. Not when Lena went to school,
1:25:43I'm pretty sure she probably went to
1:25:44sleep or was very very like exhausted,
1:25:47>> right?
1:25:47>> Cuz like us staying up and like, you
1:25:50know, getting tired and stuff.
1:25:52>> So Lena was real sleepy, but she went to
1:25:55school.
1:25:56>> Yeah. Like what I'm saying is when she
1:25:58when she woke up, she probably was like
1:25:59really really like like felt like she
1:26:02could have used a couple more hours, you
1:26:03know.
1:26:04>> So why did you call Ganon in sick and
1:26:06not her? Well, she wasn't struggling
1:26:08with stomach problems.
1:26:10>> So, he still had him in the morning
1:26:11though,
1:26:11>> right?
1:26:12>> Okay.
1:26:12>> So, he wasn't I even had messaged Albert
1:26:15through the night and said, "Hey, I ask
1:26:16him."
1:26:17>> Mhm.
1:26:18>> Like, I asked him, "Is it okay if GMC's
1:26:20out?" And so, that was
1:26:24>> Yeah.
1:26:24>> But he didn't respond cuz he was on a
1:26:26different time zone.
1:26:26>> Okay.
1:26:27>> And had got the message yet.
1:26:28>> So, you called in sick though too for
1:26:30your work. So, what I did was I said um
1:26:33I told Albert I said, "Hey, I'll just
1:26:35stay at home with DN today." And he
1:26:39again he didn't write me back or he
1:26:41didn't whatever. Uh but the plan was I
1:26:44wasn't like going to go back to teaching
1:26:48like that was like the plan was I did
1:26:51not go back to teaching.
1:26:52>> So, starting when was that a plan?
1:26:55>> I think it was like December. So, I was
1:26:59just going to try to use like days and
1:27:01try to, you know, whatever cuz I didn't
1:27:05I just didn't want to go back for
1:27:07teaching,
1:27:07>> right?
1:27:08>> What did you tell your school as far as
1:27:10why you didn't show up that day
1:27:12>> for that day? I didn't talk to them
1:27:13about anything that day.
1:27:15>> Your school you didn't
1:27:16>> Mm-m. Not that day.
1:27:17>> Did you just not show classes waiting on
1:27:20you or
1:27:20>> No, no, no, no, no. the Okay, so what
1:27:22happened was I transitioned because I
1:27:26was like, "Okay, I wasn't going to be a
1:27:27teacher anymore." Then I was like,
1:27:28"Okay, well, I have to do something
1:27:30until this like the whole flight
1:27:32attendant thing started. So, I had to do
1:27:34something until then. I couldn't just
1:27:36not
1:27:37>> have money or whatever." So, I got on
1:27:40the I think what is it? I don't know
1:27:43what district it's called, but it's one
1:27:44of the districts. I said I would do a
1:27:46long-term ser position or I would do um
1:27:50the regular sub position and then so
1:27:53then I just at that point it was going
1:27:55to just call in whenever I could work. I
1:27:57think it's D8 I have in my email.
1:28:00>> Um I could just call in whenever I
1:28:02worked or whatever and just
1:28:05>> So were you scheduled to show up then
1:28:07Monday morning
1:28:09>> from the school that I wasn't going to
1:28:11work at anymore? I had already told them
1:28:12that I wasn't like I didn't even
1:28:14complete paperwork with them yet. So, it
1:28:16wasn't even I wasn't
1:28:17>> They were counting on you to show up
1:28:19that day or
1:28:21>> what do you mean? But I had like I
1:28:23hadn't like signed any contracts. I
1:28:26hadn't like done anything with them
1:28:28because the whole plan was I was not
1:28:29going to be teaching. I was just going
1:28:31to be um
1:28:32>> Okay. Yeah, I get you didn't sign
1:28:34contracts, but were they planning for
1:28:36you to come in to do something on Monday
1:28:38and you had to call in?
1:28:39>> I I never called it on Monday. I already
1:28:41told them text down or something.
1:28:42>> No, on Thursday or Friday, I had already
1:28:44told them. Okay. On Thursday or Friday,
1:28:46I'd already told them that I wasn't
1:28:49coming in like for I didn't go in Friday
1:28:51either. Like I'd already told them I
1:28:53wasn't. So it was like you're asking me
1:28:55about if I told them Monday, but I'd
1:28:58already told them prior.
1:28:59>> Oh, you'd already told them so you
1:29:00didn't have to tell them you're not
1:29:01coming in on Monday.
1:29:02>> Right. cuz I had already told him
1:29:03because see on my dad's side there was
1:29:05someone who passed away and I just used
1:29:06that as a a reason why I wasn't coming
1:29:08on the follow the prior week.
1:29:12>> Oh, okay.
1:29:13>> So that's And then
1:29:15>> how did they pass away?
1:29:17>> Well, my dad is remarried to my stepmom
1:29:20or my dad is married to my stepmom and
1:29:22then the first time I became she had
1:29:24cancer. So I honestly I didn't had any
1:29:28plans to go there at all. I didn't.
1:29:31>> Yeah.
1:29:31>> But it bought me some time into not
1:29:34teaching and then trying to get set up
1:29:37on the next, you know, the next schedule
1:29:39because I started developing like
1:29:44a lot of stress over teaching cuz it
1:29:46wasn't so much about teaching anymore.
1:29:48It was about
1:29:50falling a piece of paper that wasn't
1:29:52helping the students. And so that was
1:29:54already a plan that was set differently
1:29:56and trying to figure out. told you to
1:29:58say the stepmom excuse then.
1:30:00>> Did you mention stepmom for the week
1:30:02prior then as far as why you might not
1:30:04be there?
1:30:04>> No, I didn't mention anyone. I just said
1:30:06I had a death in the family. I didn't
1:30:08say anything to do with our family or
1:30:10stepmom or anything. I just said we had
1:30:12a death.
1:30:12>> Were they okay with that?
1:30:14>> Yeah.
1:30:14>> Okay.
1:30:15>> I mean,
1:30:16>> what are you going to say, right?
1:30:18>> I mean,
1:30:19>> death in the family. You got any chance?
1:30:20>> Yeah. And plus too, I hadn't even done
1:30:22anything like with them. It was just why
1:30:24would I even want to set myself up in a
1:30:26position to to be teaching with them
1:30:28again? I just couldn't do it.
1:30:30>> I thought I could because I was like if
1:30:32I do it, I would just, you know, do it
1:30:35until, you know, I could be on sub
1:30:37position or whatever. And I just I hated
1:30:40it.
1:30:41>> Yeah. But I had to sub for a little
1:30:43while
1:30:44>> before the FBI.
1:30:46>> But well, see, I didn't have a problem
1:30:47moving into the sub list. Like sub's not
1:30:51funny,
1:30:52>> right? you of course you don't get paid
1:30:53what you showed but I didn't have a
1:30:54problem moving into the sub list I just
1:30:56didn't I didn't want to teach bed I was
1:30:59in a hard position with not wanting to
1:31:01be a teacher at all I wanted to do was
1:31:04work with like people and being like
1:31:06able to see new people every day and so
1:31:08I had to buy myself some time you know
1:31:11just fortunate that someone had passed
1:31:13away so that bought myself time in order
1:31:16to
1:31:18>> you say you wanted the truth that's the
1:31:20truth I bought myself
1:31:22I bought myself time to just be able to
1:31:25take th I think I think it was Thursday,
1:31:27Friday, maybe f I was one or two days to
1:31:29take that time through the weekend to
1:31:31kind of self-reflect and be like,
1:31:34how can I, you know, get to the position
1:31:37where I want to? You know how hard it is
1:31:39to work at summer, you spent your whole
1:31:40life working in education and you don't
1:31:43really want to do it.
1:31:44>> Yeah. when my wife's in education, my
1:31:46mom's an education, but yeah, I mean,
1:31:48some people are cut out for it and
1:31:50others are like,
1:31:50>> "Right." And I did it so long and it was
1:31:52like
1:31:54it was more so about following
1:31:58everything by the book and not being
1:32:01able to actually get to have fun with
1:32:03kids anymore and get to teaching the way
1:32:05you want to teach them.
1:32:07>> Right. That was so that was it was it
1:32:09was to buy myself some time, you know,
1:32:12and plan was just to keep working at the
1:32:15airport and then
1:32:18it go from there.
1:32:19>> Okay. So, tell me about the next morning
1:32:21then. So, now you're at home, Ganon's at
1:32:23home, right? Elena's at school.
1:32:25>> Tell me what happens then.
1:32:27>> Right. So, this is where I need help
1:32:29from everybody.
1:32:30>> Yeah.
1:32:31>> Um,
1:32:31>> and you can get help. I've I've like I
1:32:34said, I've had some highlevel informants
1:32:36that have told me some horrific things
1:32:39and we've had to relocate them. We can
1:32:40get different names.
1:32:42But to do that, to kick that in motion,
1:32:45we need to know the story. We can't just
1:32:47say,
1:32:47>> right?
1:32:48>> Oh, someone someone's got really
1:32:49important information,
1:32:51>> right? Well, that's where I would need
1:32:53someone to help guide me through this
1:32:56because I want to help more than
1:32:59anything.
1:33:01That's why I'm here because I'm
1:33:02representing I'm I'm representing Denver
1:33:05FBI and then I have the ability to pull
1:33:07resources from Quantico which is our
1:33:10behavior analysis unit. Everything comes
1:33:12out of there,
1:33:13>> right?
1:33:13>> Was called SER which is our incident
1:33:15response group. So this was this was a
1:33:19big enough case that the supervisor of
1:33:21the FBI asked me to come down from
1:33:24Denver, you know, and I get all my
1:33:26training out there. yourself,
1:33:27>> right?
1:33:28>> You you're not going to have better
1:33:30resources in this room right now. And
1:33:32I'm not bragging,
1:33:32>> right?
1:33:33>> I've just been doing this stuff for a
1:33:34long time,
1:33:35>> right?
1:33:36>> So, if if you tell me what happened and
1:33:41then you need protection, we can do all
1:33:43that stuff.
1:33:44>> So, DEA doesn't have those capabilities.
1:33:47ATF doesn't. No,
1:33:50>> DEA just investigates drugs and they're
1:33:53very good at it.
1:33:54>> Right. at the FBI were now worldwide
1:33:57and we have offices Bogota to Russia to
1:34:01China to wherever. So, and we get a lot
1:34:04more funding because of when September
1:34:0711th happened that changed everything
1:34:10for us. We we we were the nation's
1:34:14number one law enforcement agency before
1:34:15then,
1:34:16>> but they gave us so many more resources
1:34:19since then,
1:34:20>> right? And so I am specialized in
1:34:24missing kids
1:34:26um and unusual homicides including
1:34:29serial killings and whatever else. So I
1:34:32didn't get in right away on your case
1:34:34but I did I have been working it for the
1:34:36past couple weeks.
1:34:36>> I was not going to talk to you anyway.
1:34:38>> Yeah. Well, I'm here now and whatever
1:34:40you tell me would I mean the worst thing
1:34:43I can do for people like you is if you
1:34:45have a story that requires your
1:34:46protection for the FBI. It would not be
1:34:49good for me to run out and say, "Oh,
1:34:51told me this." And
1:34:53>> that's not how it works.
1:34:54>> Yeah.
1:34:54>> If this can help us find Gamon, we'll do
1:34:56whatever we can.
1:34:58>> Okay.
1:34:59>> I'm not like I'm just I just need like
1:35:01protection for a family. And
1:35:07I swear to you.
1:35:08>> Okay. Well, you can get that, but we
1:35:10have to know the story first.
1:35:13>> So, how how am I supposed to get help
1:35:15talking to someone first before we talk
1:35:17to you? cuz I'm willing to do that.
1:35:20>> So, here's your deal. If if you need
1:35:23help and and if you want to go through
1:35:24the court process, that's fine. We leave
1:35:28and then you you work through the court
1:35:30process.
1:35:32But then it just becomes the the whole
1:35:34focus of this, Leticia, right now,
1:35:37you're the only one. You're the last
1:35:38one. You're the last adult with him.
1:35:42>> You're the last adult we know about with
1:35:43him. You have not told anybody anything
1:35:46else to lead us.
1:35:48We have been trying to work with Al to
1:35:50say what is she saying now?
1:35:52>> Yeah.
1:35:53>> You know, and the Quincy Brown thing and
1:35:55whatever else.
1:35:55>> I was mad at him about all that. But a
1:35:57lot a lot of it was keys to help you
1:35:59guys. But it should have just been if I
1:36:04could have just re like reached out to
1:36:05someone to be like I'm I'm terrified for
1:36:11for myself and for my family.
1:36:15It would have been also what I can help
1:36:17you with can also help you with
1:36:19something else you might be working
1:36:20into.
1:36:21>> Well, what is that?
1:36:23>> I'm just saying I
1:36:24>> Well, Leticia, you've got to give me
1:36:26something here to work to work with if
1:36:28if you want to go through the court
1:36:30process. Like I said on here, the last
1:36:32question, if you want to stop at any
1:36:34time, you are more than welcome to stop
1:36:36and say,
1:36:36>> but it says it says you can have one
1:36:39present to talk to you.
1:36:42>> Yep.
1:36:43and that will kick in the court process
1:36:45and then we're done, which is fine and
1:36:47if that's what you want,
1:36:50okay? But the whole if you need
1:36:53protection and that sort of thing, I
1:36:55can't get you there without you giving
1:36:57me something.
1:36:59So,
1:37:01here's
1:37:04I listen to all the calls with Al
1:37:08and
1:37:10I've seen the crime scene reports.
1:37:13Okay. What happened in the bedroom was
1:37:16not Ganon slinging his blood on the
1:37:18wall.
1:37:20>> Well, that that's totally like not even
1:37:22to do with anything. That's why I'm so
1:37:25like upset about bedrooms and and and
1:37:28all those things because I understand
1:37:31you're an expert. I know that. But I'm
1:37:33telling you that's
1:37:36I just I'm going to need like
1:37:38protection. That's that's it. It's not
1:37:41me. I'm not the person.
1:37:43>> So, but if you're not the person, the
1:37:46the charges won't be different.
1:37:48Okay? If you allowed someone else to
1:37:51come in and do the things to Ganon that
1:37:53we know happened to him, you're just as
1:37:55guilty.
1:37:56>> I didn't allow anyone, and I don't know
1:37:59of anything like you're talking about,
1:38:01to be happening to him. I do know that
1:38:04there is something I could tell you that
1:38:05can help you or help me help everyone,
1:38:09but I I do need that help.
1:38:11>> Well,
1:38:13so let me tell you where I am.
1:38:16>> Okay. Like I said, I've been 23 years
1:38:19with the FBI. For the last 20, I've been
1:38:21working violent crime and I've worked
1:38:24some of the worst cases and it's kind of
1:38:25messed me up a little bit to be honest,
1:38:27>> right?
1:38:28>> Seeing what I've seen. Um, and I worked
1:38:3220 years of bank robots.
1:38:33>> Mhm.
1:38:34>> So, for I always thought that you were
1:38:38going to have I'm the FBI, I'm the good
1:38:40guy, bad people go rob banks. And that's
1:38:44not how it is.
1:38:45>> I've had to help arrest other FBI
1:38:48agents, police officers, people from the
1:38:51church, school resource officers. I
1:38:54mean, it doesn't matter what you do.
1:38:56Mhm.
1:38:56>> And on the other side, some of the bank
1:38:58robbers, one of them came out after
1:39:00serving a 10-year sentence and we headed
1:39:03off just fine, even though, you know, we
1:39:05were on opposite sides of the fence. The
1:39:08thing that I have seen though throughout
1:39:11is when something very bad happens,
1:39:15people think they can't recover from it.
1:39:18>> And I do not think you are a bad person.
1:39:20>> I'm not.
1:39:21>> That's why I'm here. No, I don't. I've
1:39:23seen I've seen bad things. And I know
1:39:25you tell people that to get them to help
1:39:27you, but not
1:39:28>> I would not have this approach with you
1:39:31if I thought you were a bad person. I
1:39:33think something bad happened. And I
1:39:36think that what I've seen a lot. It's
1:39:39whether it's you think that you can get
1:39:41out if you do this or this or this.
1:39:44That's where you are now. And you're
1:39:45hoping that one of these things can save
1:39:47you.
1:39:49They're not going to be a
1:39:50>> What do you mean? What were you talking
1:39:51about? Someone's not going to be able to
1:39:52save me.
1:39:54There's no there was nobody else there.
1:39:56Okay. We We've looked at the alarms.
1:39:58We've looked at the motions. We've
1:39:59looked at the detectors.
1:40:00>> The alarms are already covered up.
1:40:03>> The alarms were already covered up.
1:40:05>> Yes.
1:40:07>> Okay. But
1:40:08>> sir, I'm telling you there what you have
1:40:13is not you. I know you say you wouldn't
1:40:14sit here and say this to me if I wasn't.
1:40:16Whatever. I'm telling you it is truth. I
1:40:20would not and did not would not did not.
1:40:24And with you guys having my phone, I
1:40:28would have thought that you would have
1:40:30had some of the apps looked into.
1:40:34I would have thought that sometimes when
1:40:36I talked to Albert and you might have
1:40:37listened to them all or whatever, it
1:40:39could have been some help and indication
1:40:42on the app. I really did because I
1:40:44couldn't come at you and just tell you
1:40:47if I
1:40:49you say there's somebody not involved.
1:40:52I could walk you through it and prove it
1:40:54to you and you guys have already had
1:40:56this predetermination. I don't mean you.
1:40:58I haven't first time I spoke to you. You
1:41:00guys have already had this
1:41:01predetermination. That's what's going to
1:41:03happen.
1:41:04It's already in your mindset.
1:41:06>> Yeah. Because we have no other evidence
1:41:08pointing us elsewhere.
1:41:10So, if there was a shred of evidence,
1:41:12Leticia, that pointed us to some other
1:41:14person, we would be all over it. As soon
1:41:17as Quincy Brown came out of your mouth,
1:41:20>> it doesn't take long.
1:41:22>> So, you know 100% he's in Mexico right
1:41:24now.
1:41:25>> Yes, we do know.
1:41:27>> All right.
1:41:30>> Because we did get our leg at we have
1:41:32what's called a legal
1:41:33>> attaches.
1:41:35Okay.
1:41:38That's where that alone and I get that
1:41:41you're saying you have someone who
1:41:42looked into that and knows that that's
1:41:46where I know in my heart that I can't
1:41:48trust to get help that very
1:41:51>> you're saying Quincy Brown
1:41:54>> that's that's not what I'm saying but
1:41:55you would have said another word like
1:41:57something in between that that would
1:41:59have gave that off like you wouldn't
1:42:02have said he's just in Mexico and he
1:42:04didn't do anything. You would have said,
1:42:06"Oh, did he come back here for a
1:42:08reason?" You You wouldn't have said any
1:42:09of that. You would have known some other
1:42:11things to or maybe you have and you just
1:42:13can't tell me those things and that's
1:42:15okay.
1:42:16But
1:42:18>> well, we don't in a case like this. So,
1:42:22tips will come in.
1:42:23>> Mhm.
1:42:24>> You know, the public will call him and
1:42:26then of course you and Al are primary
1:42:28interest because you're the parents of
1:42:29the missing kid. And most 90% of the
1:42:32time when a kid goes missing, it has to
1:42:34do with one of the parents.
1:42:35>> Mhm.
1:42:37>> That's it. That we we look we work on
1:42:39probability.
1:42:40>> Okay.
1:42:41>> So, and especially with you then you're
1:42:44there. You say he went to a neighbor's
1:42:46house. That that's the very first thing
1:42:48you say. And then there's no thought
1:42:51that somebody took him.
1:42:53>> You said there's no thought.
1:42:55>> There's no thought for law enforcement.
1:42:57But you don't you're not understanding
1:42:59what happened leading up to the days
1:43:02before. Nothing to do with Ganon,
1:43:04nothing to do with me. Okay? In terms of
1:43:06me and Ganon, okay? I love Ganon with
1:43:10all my heart. And so you can sit here
1:43:13and say 90% parents this this this.
1:43:17Okay?
1:43:17>> I'm not saying you don't love him.
1:43:19>> I I loved him. I'm saying that even I
1:43:21have had times when my son rolled a
1:43:23basketball underneath that I wanted to
1:43:25turn around and right
1:43:26>> do something and then I would have
1:43:27regretted it later.
1:43:28>> But you're saying what you're saying to
1:43:30me is what you you speak is that I hurt
1:43:34Ganon.
1:43:35>> And I don't think it was intentional.
1:43:36>> Okay. But I didn't hurt Ganon. Okay. And
1:43:39I didn't either intentional or not
1:43:41intentional hurt Ganon. I did not.
1:43:45That's just not what happened. Okay. And
1:43:48I had this conversation with you just to
1:43:50see for a second if I could get help
1:43:53from you,
1:43:54>> which you can, but you How can you
1:43:56expect me to help you, Leticia, if
1:43:58you're not going to tell me what
1:43:59happened?
1:44:00>> You can't go. Just so let me tell you,
1:44:03>> you can unlock the entire resources of
1:44:05the FBI right now. I've told you that.
1:44:08But then you say that you're not willing
1:44:10to do it. Whether you don't trust me or
1:44:12you think that there's these
1:44:14>> She already told me someone wasn't there
1:44:15based on an alarm.
1:44:18That's from what we can see. Yes.
1:44:20Movement in the basement, right?
1:44:22>> Movement upstairs.
1:44:23>> But you've already told me that based on
1:44:24that. Okay. But what you're not
1:44:27realizing is there's two sensors on that
1:44:30home. Okay. Two two that can easily be
1:44:33manipulated easily. Okay. And if you
1:44:36even knew anything about prior, you
1:44:40would be thinking a lot differently now.
1:44:42But see, that's why I can't talk to you
1:44:45about these things because you already
1:44:47have predetermined what you said.
1:44:48>> It doesn't matter what I predetermined,
1:44:50>> what you said intentionally,
1:44:51unintentionally, and that's not the
1:44:53case.
1:44:53>> I'm not saying I'm right 100% of the
1:44:55time. It doesn't You need to just
1:44:58disregard whatever I think or really
1:45:00whatever anybody else thinks. If you
1:45:03have a truth and if you have something
1:45:05that will help us finding really to hell
1:45:08with me and everybody else and what we
1:45:10think, you should just cast that aside.
1:45:13All we all I can follow is the facts of
1:45:16the cases they're told to me.
1:45:18>> Okay?
1:45:18>> And so for me to go somewhere else
1:45:20besides the facts, I have to then go
1:45:22back to the facts to check it.
1:45:24>> So when I say something like
1:45:25>> I talk to you in private, but you can't
1:45:27tell Albert about anything that led up
1:45:30to it or anyone else. that Albert will
1:45:32not
1:45:33>> I will I understand that but I will but
1:45:36I need your help and I need to know that
1:45:38you tell me those resources you tell me
1:45:41whatever okay I know you're saying you
1:45:43got whatever this and that and all that
1:45:46but I I really am going to need help
1:45:50like
1:45:51a lot
1:45:53swear to you
1:45:56don't base it on some alarm reports cuz
1:45:58they can easily manipulate it easy I
1:46:01know I'm saying when you were saying no
1:46:02one else
1:46:04>> was there.
1:46:05>> So
1:46:05>> when you say that, don't base it on that
1:46:08please. I'm begging you cuz that was not
1:46:12even remotely.
1:46:14That's not even it.
1:46:16Not even.
1:46:18>> So you care about Ganon?
1:46:19>> I care about Ganon. I have reached out
1:46:22every day offering for people to go with
1:46:24me certain places to get to get even
1:46:27insight to see. I every day asked, "Hey,
1:46:30can you go do this? Can can someone meet
1:46:32me here?"
1:46:32>> So, you've asked someone to go look for
1:46:34him,
1:46:35>> right? Like I've I reached out and I
1:46:37asked Albert. I said, "Hey, can you meet
1:46:38me? Let me tell you about this and let's
1:46:40go to this location to look." I've asked
1:46:43all these
1:46:43>> What location do you think he's at now,
1:46:46Dana?
1:46:46>> No, I'm I'm just saying like
1:46:48>> No, but I'm asking you in general.
1:46:50>> Where do you think he is right now?
1:46:52>> I can I don't know exactly. I don't
1:46:56know. Well, where where do you know him
1:46:58to last?
1:46:59>> I
1:47:00am 99% confident Dannon is alive.
1:47:04>> Okay, Leticia, where do you know him to
1:47:06last be?
1:47:09>> I want to help, sir, but I I'm in a room
1:47:13and you've already talking about all
1:47:15this and the corpse and I'm It's me
1:47:19against everybody else.
1:47:20>> So, here's the deal. Once this thing
1:47:22goes through the courts, you talked
1:47:24about that. You're the only one to be
1:47:27with him. You think you're going to be
1:47:29able to tell a story.
1:47:30>> A story?
1:47:31>> It It might be a true story.
1:47:34>> Gosh, sir.
1:47:35>> But But listen, I've listened to a lot
1:47:37of your stories and I don't know what
1:47:38else to tell him.
1:47:39>> Yeah. Okay. That's because I was mad at
1:47:41him. Had nothing. I already knew.
1:47:43>> But I've seen what you told the news
1:47:44reporter. I've seen what I've listened
1:47:45to what you told El Paso about the sex
1:47:48assault that happened in the house.
1:47:50>> I already knew that you guys were
1:47:52listening to him. So I said that because
1:47:54I was angry,
1:47:55>> but but what I think I can offer you
1:47:57today is some help.
1:48:00>> Okay.
1:48:02>> Okay. And and I've told
1:48:05people that I've worked with here this
1:48:07story because you remind me a lot of a
1:48:09case I worked about 5 years ago and I'm
1:48:12still working a little bit of it today
1:48:13because of the fallout.
1:48:16Um there's a guy from Highlands Ranch.
1:48:18His name's Harold Henthornne.
1:48:20>> Okay. and he uh pretended to go to a job
1:48:24every day like he was earning a lot of
1:48:27money. Uh his first wife, she was a
1:48:30social worker in Denver. She ends up
1:48:32getting sick. He's going to have to pay
1:48:34for her medical bills and because of
1:48:37that, she's going to be sick. She's
1:48:39going to have medical bills. She's going
1:48:41to find out that Harold doesn't really
1:48:43have a job,
1:48:44>> right?
1:48:45>> His image was very important to him. and
1:48:49he ended up staging an accident. And I'm
1:48:52not saying you did this to G. I just
1:48:53want you to listen to this story.
1:48:55>> Uh and the car fell on his wife and
1:48:58killed her
1:48:59>> and he got away with
1:49:01>> Yes. It was down in Sidelia, an entire a
1:49:04jeep. He somehow got her underneath the
1:49:06jeep and the entire jeep came down and
1:49:08crushed her.
1:49:09>> Um 10 years later, 12 years later, he's
1:49:13married to a second wife. They have a
1:49:15lot more money. They have a family.
1:49:17Harold's a Christian man. He go he went
1:49:20to Cherry Hills Church, which is a big
1:49:21church in Highlands Range,
1:49:23>> and he did built the walls for Warz. He
1:49:26would go down and do mission work, etc.
1:49:29So, he had a good heart.
1:49:30>> Mhm. But his second wife, um, she was an
1:49:34eye surgeon in Cherry Creek and she kind
1:49:38of started, her family started figuring
1:49:39out that Harold didn't really have a
1:49:41job.
1:49:42>> Mhm.
1:49:42>> And he actually dropped a a beam on her
1:49:45head at a cabin, not trying to kill her.
1:49:48We don't know what that was about, but
1:49:50she stopped the oil checks coming in
1:49:53to Harold cuz Harold had basically he
1:49:56was collecting the family's oil checks.
1:49:58>> Mhm. And then she ends up falling off
1:50:01the cliff in Esta's Park.
1:50:04>> And it's you can't prove the difference
1:50:07between a push and a fall. And I found
1:50:10this out going into it cuz if it happens
1:50:12in Esta's Park, it's a federal crime.
1:50:14>> Okay.
1:50:14>> So Harold stood to inherit $6.5 million
1:50:19for her death.
1:50:20>> Mhm.
1:50:21>> And he was just fine coming out there.
1:50:24But Harold told different stories to
1:50:27different people.
1:50:29>> Like from his church, he would say Tony
1:50:31was Tony was his wife. He said Tony was
1:50:33clumsy. She wasn't paying attention.
1:50:35Tony was looking at turkeys. She just
1:50:37ran off the edge. Tony was this, you
1:50:40know, and that really hurt him in court.
1:50:44>> Mhm.
1:50:45>> Because what happens later on is
1:50:46Harold's thinking, "Oh, I was just
1:50:49saying this, you know, because, you
1:50:51know, maybe she was doing that. maybe
1:50:53she wasn't
1:50:54>> right.
1:50:55>> Instead of saying this is what happened,
1:50:57>> right?
1:50:58>> And he also said, "I didn't see her when
1:51:01she fell off the cliff."
1:51:03>> He said, "Uh, I was just looking the
1:51:05other way."
1:51:06>> Really, you're looking at her the whole
1:51:07time and then the time that
1:51:09>> Right.
1:51:09>> the time that she's off the cliff, you
1:51:11know. And so I I'm looking at your
1:51:13story,
1:51:14>> uh, the ones that you've told to Al, the
1:51:16ones that you've said in the media of
1:51:18hitting your head. When you hit your
1:51:20head, you didn't see what happened.
1:51:23And then when someone else takes Ganon
1:51:26or when he's riding a bike and he hits
1:51:29his head and stuff like that.
1:51:30>> No, riding a bike. I was just I just
1:51:32told you I was saying that to Albert
1:51:34because I was upset that he wasn't
1:51:36listening to me that I did not hurt
1:51:38Ganon.
1:51:39>> I don't think you intended to hurt Ganon
1:51:40at all.
1:51:41>> Sir, there's no in
1:51:42>> No, I'm not saying you did or he hurt
1:51:44himself. Something bad happened in his
1:51:47room.
1:51:47>> I have you seen that. Sir,
1:51:51>> you've helped clean it off the wall. We
1:51:53know that
1:51:53>> this here what what you're talking about
1:51:56is completely
1:51:58completely irrelevant about the whole
1:52:01thinking bad
1:52:03>> whatever.
1:52:03>> Tell me about if if it's irrelevant,
1:52:05Leticia, help me because there's a big
1:52:07blood spool in the corner. There's spray
1:52:09on the wall. Because if I tell you
1:52:12anything about any of that, all you're
1:52:14going to say to me is,
1:52:17"Hey, d
1:52:18>> if you didn't do it, no. I will be your
1:52:20advocate." Cuz why do we know each
1:52:23other?
1:52:24>> No, but I
1:52:25>> Why would I care if you didn't do it and
1:52:28it helps me find Ganon?
1:52:30>> I didn't do it.
1:52:31>> Okay. Well, then help me find out who
1:52:33did.
1:52:33>> Who did what?
1:52:35>> That to Ganon in his room.
1:52:36>> Don't walk to Don't walk to Ganon in his
1:52:38room. There's a pool of blood in the
1:52:40corner.
1:52:40>> Okay,
1:52:41>> that's Ganon's blood.
1:52:42>> Okay, so you're saying now now this is
1:52:46this is where I have a hard time knowing
1:52:47what you're like, okay, trust you or
1:52:49not. All right, you're saying there's a
1:52:51pool of blood. Albert said saucer size
1:52:55cuz I'm sure you had him say all this
1:52:56cuz I'm sure you were there or whatever.
1:52:59Okay, in his room and you said something
1:53:01about what' you say on the wall. Okay.
1:53:06Then if that's your your whatever your
1:53:10expert advice or whatever.
1:53:13>> Okay.
1:53:14>> Then
1:53:15where where do you think that I had any
1:53:20involvement with Ganon and where did he
1:53:23go? That's where people That's where it
1:53:26has to click at some point. That
1:53:30>> and and that's what I listened to you do
1:53:32that to Al to where you're making
1:53:34>> him guess what happened to Ken.
1:53:37>> I don't want him to guess.
1:53:38>> Well, no. Well, you're you're asking me
1:53:40to guess.
1:53:40>> No, no. I was asking the question, sir.
1:53:42I wasn't trying to get you to guess. I
1:53:43was just saying in general, asking a
1:53:45question. I want help with people
1:53:49understanding. I tried to give any
1:53:52insight, help, clues, anything, but I
1:53:55can't because they know my daughter,
1:54:00everyone, my family, my mom, everyone.
1:54:04And you can think that,
1:54:05>> but right now, Leticia, I mean, you can
1:54:08go down that road, but it's not going to
1:54:10save you in court
1:54:11>> because you're the last adult with
1:54:14>> and nobody else. Just let me let me try
1:54:16to protect you. I'm not trying to hurt
1:54:17you here.
1:54:19This is actually protecting you. If you
1:54:22don't tell us where to go investigate,
1:54:25>> Mhm.
1:54:25>> then nobody's going to investigate for
1:54:27you. You're the last adult with me. You
1:54:29told a lot of lies about all these
1:54:32injuries from
1:54:33>> I didn't tell lies to you or to any
1:54:35police officer.
1:54:37>> Did a sex assault happen in the house?
1:54:39>> I didn't tell any lies to you or a
1:54:41police officer.
1:54:42>> Okay. So you don't have we don't have
1:54:46anybody to chase though if we don't
1:54:48chase you. I
1:54:50>> do you understand?
1:54:51>> But if you chase me, okay, and you do
1:54:53this to me,
1:54:56people are protected because you guys
1:54:58aren't going to protect everybody else.
1:55:00People are protected. Okay?
1:55:03>> We can protect people. We can protect
1:55:05you, family, if this is involved. Now,
1:55:07I've worked South American theft groups.
1:55:10I've worked gangsters. I've worked
1:55:12organized crime.
1:55:13>> Mhm.
1:55:14>> None of that stuff rings true with what
1:55:16happened here.
1:55:18>> I mean, how how is how is a very
1:55:20organized gang going to come into a
1:55:22house in Colorado Springs?
1:55:24>> Who said it a house? Why does it have to
1:55:26be in the house? See, that's where
1:55:28>> that's where he last was.
1:55:30>> Are you going to make me guess where he
1:55:32was then?
1:55:32>> No, I'm I'm telling you, you're not
1:55:36going to listen to me. See, you already
1:55:37just said he last was in the house. But
1:55:39see, you're again, you're going back to
1:55:41what you care what I think. You
1:55:43shouldn't care what I think.
1:55:44>> I do care what you think. You want to
1:55:45know why?
1:55:46>> Because I care about my h how people
1:55:50think of me because I am not that kind
1:55:52of person.
1:55:53>> That's why.
1:55:54>> And if you can point me to a different
1:55:56person, then I can help you.
1:55:57>> I gave hints before.
1:55:59>> But don't give me hints.
1:56:00>> But but but the thing about it is if I
1:56:02gave you hints, you automatically took
1:56:04it in an approach of thinking, "Oh,
1:56:05well, we already looked at the alarm
1:56:07system." No, that's not how it works.
1:56:10>> So, think about how much we've looked at
1:56:12you over the past month.
1:56:14>> Okay.
1:56:15>> You give me a new name
1:56:18or Quincy Brown or whoever you want to
1:56:20throw. We can do that same sort of
1:56:21microscope
1:56:24cuz you know in here I even have what
1:56:26you entered in your phone,
1:56:28the stuff that you've entered and
1:56:29deleted
1:56:32like um blood is spurting from an
1:56:34arterial bleed. Direct pressure not
1:56:37controlling.
1:56:38>> Do what? I didn't look this up.
1:56:40>> It's from your phone.
1:56:42>> Blood is what?
1:56:43>> Spurting from an arterial bleed.
1:56:46>> No.
1:56:46>> Well, somebody did from your phone. I
1:56:48don't like my stepson.
1:56:50>> No.
1:56:51>> I don't like my stepson. Should I get a
1:56:53divorce?
1:56:55>> I'll stock cheating. I'll stock
1:56:58Instagram. I'll stock cheating in
1:56:59Colorado Springs. Catch I'll stock
1:57:02cheating. How to get blood out of
1:57:05sheets. out of sheets.
1:57:08>> I want immun.
1:57:08>> Oh, the blood out of the blood out of
1:57:10sheets was because we always had like
1:57:12always nosebleleeds. If I ever looked up
1:57:15blood out of sheets, it was nosebleleed.
1:57:16And I figured it might be something.
1:57:18>> I didn't never look up anything about an
1:57:19artery or something unless it went from
1:57:21something else.
1:57:22>> It's on your phone.
1:57:23>> And I never looked up anything about my
1:57:25stepson unless someone else did it.
1:57:27>> The reason I brought up gangs is you you
1:57:29uh looked up I want immunity because it
1:57:31was gang related.
1:57:34And this sounds like find me a new
1:57:37husband, find me a rich guy who loves to
1:57:40take care of his kids.
1:57:41>> The the new husband is just because
1:57:45Albert already knew that was about the
1:57:46lady Debbie Cheryl who had a who wanted
1:57:49to find a new husband at the 35 or
1:57:51something. He picked me up about Amazon.
1:57:52>> Like a lot of these can have nothing to
1:57:54do with this.
1:57:55>> It doesn't.
1:57:55>> I get it.
1:57:57>> Um,
1:57:58>> can I spray Can I spray paint wood?
1:58:01>> Spray paint wood? Well, we always spray
1:58:03wood. Yeah. I'm doing all the work for
1:58:06my step kids and their mom doesn't help.
1:58:08>> Oh, that bothered me. Yeah.
1:58:10>> Yeah. I don't blame it.
1:58:11>> Oh, yes. Cuz I wanted them to be mine.
1:58:13Like, like me to be their child.
1:58:16>> Hit and run. You Googled a lot on
1:58:18Leticia and traffic accident. Hit and
1:58:21run.
1:58:21>> No, I didn't hit anybody.
1:58:23>> No. What was that?
1:58:26>> What? What date was it?
1:58:27>> It I don't have a date on these. I just
1:58:29I was downloading stuff as I was coming
1:58:31on the plane.
1:58:32>> Yeah. No, I don't. My husband wants a
1:58:34divorce.
1:58:35>> My husband wants a baby, but I want an
1:58:37abortion.
1:58:40One day, some people will wish they
1:58:42treated you differently, which I get
1:58:44that parenting should be four people,
1:58:46not one.
1:58:49What's a suicidal person might say?
1:58:52I mean, these make me very sad when I
1:58:54read them because I can see you're doing
1:58:56all the work at home by yourself,
1:58:58>> which I wanted to be there. Like I
1:59:00wanted to totally have the kids as my
1:59:03children. That's the point you're not
1:59:06getting. Like I wanted those kids to be
1:59:10saying to me that I'm their mom.
1:59:12>> Like I'm the person who does cares for
1:59:16them, loves them, everything.
1:59:18So you can think that.
1:59:20>> What about What do you do if you suspect
1:59:22a person's swallow poison? Does somebody
1:59:24actually swallow poison?
1:59:25>> Poison. I don't know. I always click
1:59:28things and read them.
1:59:30No one.
1:59:30>> Did somebody swallow it?
1:59:31>> No one swallowed any poison.
1:59:33>> Okay.
1:59:35>> You will never forgive me and treat me
1:59:36like a princess. You'll never know when
1:59:38it's too late.
1:59:39>> Oh, yeah. I mean, I always search for
1:59:41things when Albert was gone.
1:59:43>> What is an Alford plea? Did you figure
1:59:45out what an Alford plea was?
1:59:46>> Alfred?
1:59:47>> Yeah. A L F O R D?
1:59:50>> I think someone had asked me then. I
1:59:52probably searched it.
1:59:53>> Do you know what it is?
1:59:54>> Yeah.
1:59:55>> Do you remember? What did you remember?
1:59:56>> I don't remember. I just remember
1:59:58something because someone was writing
1:59:59that online. So I if anyone wrote
2:00:02something online, I looked it up just
2:00:04like the other day someone wrote
2:00:06something about FBI come in or something
2:00:08and I if I see something online, I
2:00:11always Google what someone else says and
2:00:13see what you know like what they're
2:00:15saying is matching what what they're
2:00:17saying online,
2:00:18>> right?
2:00:18>> So like I've did that completely. I do
2:00:20that all the time for everything. So, if
2:00:22you're not willing to go with who took
2:00:25Ganon, can you at least tell me what
2:00:27injuries he suffered? The true ones as
2:00:31far as the cut foot. Was that a legit
2:00:33injury?
2:00:33>> Yes.
2:00:34>> And where did that happen?
2:00:36>> So, he was outside in the garage and
2:00:39when he was outside in the garage, he
2:00:41was running to go help me take the tra
2:00:43take the trash out, come back and help
2:00:44me get stuff out of the car and then he
2:00:47stepped on something which I left the
2:00:49blood there.
2:00:51Like I left it like cuz Albert said
2:00:53don't touch that fine wood or African
2:00:55wood, whatever kind of wood it was.
2:00:57>> What What did the piece of wood look
2:00:58like?
2:00:59>> It's just I don't know, like a board.
2:01:02>> Okay. And it's still there in the
2:01:04garage.
2:01:05>> I I had to drive over them all the time.
2:01:08So like I always had to drive over the
2:01:11pieces of wood.
2:01:12>> Right. But you didn't take that out of
2:01:13the garage.
2:01:14>> It's too bad you couldn't fit it in
2:01:15anything. You couldn't fit the pieces.
2:01:17the long boards that were in the garage.
2:01:20You could not fit. I left the Okay, so
2:01:23there was the piece of board that I
2:01:24threw in the back of our truck and then
2:01:27there was the two long boards that were
2:01:29sitting there. So, so the board that was
2:01:32about like this size and the board that
2:01:34was the long boards that were sitting
2:01:36here, I left the long boards because I
2:01:39don't those that was supposed to be the
2:01:40fancy wood and I didn't want to ruin it
2:01:42by trying to get the blood off of it.
2:01:44The other piece of wood was the wood
2:01:46that I threw in the back of Albert's
2:01:48truck.
2:01:49>> And what was that one?
2:01:50>> It was there was a bunch of pieces that
2:01:51were laying around that from that night
2:01:54from us running through there. It was
2:01:56like little pieces. There was a piece
2:01:58about this size. Maybe a couple pieces.
2:02:02But that
2:02:02>> you threw it in the back of the truck
2:02:05that that bigger piece.
2:02:06>> Well, you said bigger like this. It
2:02:08wasn't that big.
2:02:09>> Okay.
2:02:09>> Yeah. It was um cheap wood. Like I knew
2:02:12it was not the wood that he would be
2:02:14freaking out over. So from Sunday that's
2:02:18he did hurt his foot from Sunday.
2:02:21>> And how badly was it bleeding?
2:02:22>> It wasn't I say Sunday. Saturday I'm
2:02:25sorry. From Saturday Albert had just
2:02:27left like to drive to the airport. It
2:02:30wasn't even he wasn't even gone long. He
2:02:33had just left to drive to the airport.
2:02:36>> Okay. So, did it require a band-aid or
2:02:40>> Gana when he whenever he always does
2:02:42something, he tries to be like he's not
2:02:45like Lena where he's like, "Oh, I need a
2:02:46band-aid or whatever." Gana would
2:02:48literally walk around with toilet paper
2:02:49in the middle of his toe and it will
2:02:51have blood or whatever and just run
2:02:54everywhere to his room or whatever.
2:02:55>> Yeah. So, what did he do on this
2:02:56occasion?
2:02:57>> We we literally took a paper towel.
2:02:59That's why I just told you about the toe
2:03:01and put in between.
2:03:02>> So, it was in between his toes is where
2:03:04the injury
2:03:04>> No, he it was like wrapped here. Okay.
2:03:06And
2:03:06>> we had it wrapped and I don't remember
2:03:09if we got a band-aid to be honest. This
2:03:11is just what Dannon
2:03:13>> So that doesn't sound like a big injury
2:03:15though.
2:03:15>> Well, it wasn't I mean he it was blood.
2:03:17There was no big injuries. Um I left it
2:03:19on the wood because I said I'm not going
2:03:22to clean his fine African wood.
2:03:25>> What did it look like on the wood? Drops
2:03:27streaks.
2:03:28>> Well, what I did originally was I was
2:03:30trying to take water to do it. But then
2:03:32I realized if I put cleaner then that
2:03:34wouldn't do anything but cause the wood
2:03:37to damage cuz I always wanted to build
2:03:39things with all this wood that we
2:03:40bought.
2:03:41>> And if I use those pieces of wood and
2:03:45all that stuff then you know.
2:03:47>> Did you ever use that shop back to clean
2:03:49up anything out there?
2:03:50>> No, I never used the shop back. The shop
2:03:52back was never I couldn't even like move
2:03:55anything with the shop. Anything that
2:03:57would have been used with a shop back
2:03:59would have been out other than the times
2:04:00that we brought it
2:04:02>> which would have been weeks ago and we
2:04:04did spring cleaning or fall cleaning
2:04:06around the house in the corners and that
2:04:08type of thing.
2:04:08>> Okay.
2:04:09>> So that would have been the shock back.
2:04:11I never there was nothing I ever did and
2:04:13vacuumed up something with a shot back.
2:04:16>> That helps me. I'm just asking
2:04:17>> like any of that
2:04:18>> there there there was none of that ever
2:04:20happened.
2:04:21>> So
2:04:23the burns on the arms weren't that bad.
2:04:25the the cut on the toe or the bottom of
2:04:27the foot wasn't that
2:04:28>> we still were able to go hiking. He was
2:04:31was able to still go hiking. It was
2:04:33bleeding on the board.
2:04:37>> Not after that. Not all over the house,
2:04:39that sort of thing.
2:04:40>> Well, he had the piece of paper. It went
2:04:41down to his room.
2:04:43>> Yeah.
2:04:43>> Like wrapped around his foot. So, I
2:04:45mean, if anything, there was it could
2:04:46have been drops of blood or something,
2:04:48but no.
2:04:49>> What about the wound to the head that
2:04:50you talked to Al about? So Albert was
2:04:53like trying to get me to say whatever
2:04:55because I'm sure you guys are having him
2:04:56do that and I knew that's what he was
2:04:58doing. So Albert was trying to get me to
2:05:00say that like talk about talk to him
2:05:02about you know like wounds or or you
2:05:04know whatever. So, I threw off some
2:05:06stories to Albert because he was making
2:05:08me so upset. Just like
2:05:12everyone not understanding that
2:05:15there's an intervention portion here and
2:05:18there's there's a there's someone
2:05:20intervening in this and that's where
2:05:22people didn't understand or want to say
2:05:23anything. So, I just started rambling
2:05:25stuff to Albert and I even said to you
2:05:27guys, "Hey, I know you're listening."
2:05:29You know, and it was just to
2:05:33to whatever. But do you know what that
2:05:34sounds like though to a dad who's
2:05:36missing his kid and then you say and a
2:05:40grievous head wound happened to where it
2:05:41was blood running down his face and that
2:05:44sort of thing and it's you know had to
2:05:46bandage it up and
2:05:48>> well I don't remember saying anything
2:05:49about bandage it up.
2:05:50>> I think you said Quincy Brown tried to
2:05:52bandage it up.
2:05:52>> Oh cuz he was making me mad about
2:05:54something. Yeah, I was about to say I
2:05:55don't remember me saying I did that but
2:05:58>> So he did suffer a head wound though.
2:06:01>> A head wound?
2:06:02>> Yes. head or neck.
2:06:04>> Okay?
2:06:04>> And that is what caused the blood there.
2:06:07And so if even if you choose not to tell
2:06:10us where Ganon is today because you're
2:06:12too nervous or whatever else, we would
2:06:14like to know where that was on him. So
2:06:17if we find him on our own, if you've
2:06:18given me the clues to go find him, that
2:06:20sort of thing.
2:06:22>> Where was that wound?
2:06:23>> Genanon is alive.
2:06:25>> He's alive. Fine. But where was that
2:06:26wound?
2:06:27>> Was it his neck or his head?
2:06:29>> I I don't really think about a neck or
2:06:31head. Well, you had to clean up the
2:06:33wall. You want to have
2:06:34>> That was not that that is not even from
2:06:36what what you're talking about there had
2:06:39nothing to do with anything from
2:06:41Saturday, Sunday, whatever. That had
2:06:45nothing to do with any of it.
2:06:47>> How could it not?
2:06:48>> It did not.
2:06:48>> There was a lot of blood.
2:06:49>> It did not.
2:06:50>> You're going to have to explain that,
2:06:52>> sir. It did not.
2:06:53>> Well, just tell me how.
2:06:54>> It did not. I promise you.
2:06:56>> But you're not going to tell me how. So,
2:06:58where we can help you with
2:06:59>> You're not going to help me, though. How
2:07:00could I not help you? How are you going
2:07:03to get out, Leticia, on the stand after
2:07:06telling all these stories, which we're
2:07:08going to talk ask you about, and then
2:07:10say, "I can explain all that, and it's
2:07:13some party that I never told law
2:07:15enforcement to go chase." If Ganon is
2:07:18alive, we have an 11-year-old kid
2:07:20somewhere being held against his will,
2:07:24and you're not telling us, you might as
2:07:26well have done this yourself. That's why
2:07:28I'm saying
2:07:29>> let me hope you get all right there.
2:07:54I fill it out. I'll just put it in.
2:08:20There you go.
2:08:21[Music]
2:08:27>> What about the blood on the back of the
2:08:29teacorn?
2:08:30>> Torn.
2:08:31>> Mhm.
2:08:32>> The only blood would have been in the
2:08:32back of Ton when we were s we were we
2:08:35opened the car up in the car. We were
2:08:37sitting there to do what? There's
2:08:40nothing to do with it.
2:08:41>> There's too much to be told.
2:08:43>> Uh-uh. No. That that No, no, no, no,
2:08:46sir. That is absolutely not true. That
2:08:48was where we were sitting on the back of
2:08:50the car when we were unloading the
2:08:53stuff. We were sitting on the back of
2:08:54the car. There is no Uhuh. No sir. Mm-
2:08:58>> There's plenty in the garage, though.
2:09:00>> But there was nothing in the garage.
2:09:02There was plenty of times that everybody
2:09:04worked in the garage. Had nothing to do
2:09:05with
2:09:06>> Not everybody. Ganon's not working in
2:09:07the garage and bleeding all over the
2:09:09place.
2:09:09>> There was there was nothing about
2:09:11bleeding all over the place in the
2:09:13garage that had to do with anything. I'm
2:09:15telling you what you're asking me is
2:09:19completely totally different than
2:09:22anything has to do with
2:09:23>> Do you know what this looks? Say you're
2:09:24telling me the truth. Again, please
2:09:26don't think Please don't care what I
2:09:29think. Say you're telling me the truth
2:09:31right now. That Saturday had nothing to
2:09:34do with him disappearing and being gone
2:09:36for over a month.
2:09:38Do you know what that looks like for
2:09:40you? It looks like I'm in the middle of
2:09:43a situation that I need help getting out
2:09:45of.
2:09:46>> But But you're not willing to tell me
2:09:48how to help you.
2:09:51>> So now you're saying that Ganon had a
2:09:53really bad head wound on Saturday.
2:09:55>> No, no. I didn't say that. That's not
2:09:57what I said.
2:09:57>> The head thing was Saturday and the
2:09:59amount of blood.
2:10:00>> No, no, no. That's not what I'm saying.
2:10:02I'm saying what you're talking about
2:10:04completely different than than what
2:10:07you're saying.
2:10:08>> Yeah. Yeah. But this doesn't look any
2:10:10better for you because now you haven't
2:10:12told Al that he has a head wound. You
2:10:14haven't called the hospital.
2:10:18>> It wasn't like that. It was not.
2:10:20>> Well, then you have to tell me. I mean,
2:10:21you don't have to do anything, but
2:10:22>> not what it was like, sir. Not had
2:10:25nothing to do with me. Was not what it
2:10:27was like, sir. Okay.
2:10:29>> So, did someone else injure him on
2:10:30Saturday?
2:10:34Just that's an easy question. You don't
2:10:35even have to tell me a name. Did someone
2:10:37else injure him or something?
2:10:38>> I
2:10:41wanted to meet friends
2:10:44cuz I didn't have friends. Okay.
2:10:47So, I wanted to meet friends. Okay.
2:10:51After the Albert ever told you about any
2:10:53of these apps you had me to go with
2:10:56see that's where this is going to be
2:11:00whatever cuz you're going to take you're
2:11:01not you're not going to take my my
2:11:03version and my sign of
2:11:05>> Leticia. Let me stop you. If you help
2:11:08us, I will take whatever version you
2:11:10tell me and I will actually prove it.
2:11:14That's all I do is I don't chase. I am
2:11:17wrong most of the time.
2:11:19>> Do you have a way to pull up apps? Do
2:11:21you have a way to pull up the stuff on
2:11:22apps? Do you have that?
2:11:24>> We can do that while you're here. Yes.
2:11:26>> Okay. Well, I know I'm saying you said
2:11:28you have this.
2:11:29>> Yes, you have ways to pull up apps.
2:11:31Okay.
2:11:32>> What app?
2:11:37How do you have ways to pull taps?
2:11:39>> We have technical people and I'm not a
2:11:41tech person, but we have plenty of tech
2:11:43people that are super smart to do it.
2:11:46>> If you tell me what to do, we can do
2:11:48that while we're talking. Take a break.
2:11:51You can go to the restroom. Whatever
2:11:52else, we can solve this thing right now.
2:11:57>> Why come I just can't talk to you
2:11:58without a bunch of people watching me?
2:12:00>> Then we can talk right now.
2:12:01>> Yeah, but come on. There's people here.
2:12:03>> Yeah. What? What do you want me to You
2:12:05tell me what you want to do and I will
2:12:07>> I want to talk to you to tell you about
2:12:11leading up to anything. I want to talk
2:12:13to you because I want you to find Dannon
2:12:16and I believe in all my heart you will
2:12:17help me not lie to me.
2:12:19>> I will help you
2:12:20>> not try to say, "Oh, you're telling the
2:12:22story and throw me somewhere."
2:12:25>> Okay.
2:12:26>> So, is he alive?
2:12:27>> I Let me finish this and I'm going ask
2:12:28you a question. I understand what you're
2:12:30saying about federal versus law local
2:12:33whatever. Okay. So, the first the first
2:12:35thing I'm going to want to talk to you
2:12:37is that I don't want anything said
2:12:40before hold against me. If I provide you
2:12:43with 100% the truth to help you,
2:12:47>> that'll work. This is the first time
2:12:49we're talking and it's for a reason. You
2:12:51haven't talked to the feds yet,
2:12:52>> right? So, if I can I don't want to be
2:12:56sitting here with all these people
2:12:57watching because I want you to listen at
2:13:01exactly what happened and go from there.
2:13:06Okay.
2:13:07>> Okay.
2:13:08>> And that's not I know you're trained to
2:13:10do this and interrogate people and all
2:13:13this. I want nothing more nothing more
2:13:17than for Gana to be okay. That's all I
2:13:20want. I promise you. That's all I want.
2:13:24>> That's it.
2:13:27And I will take
2:13:29whatever resources, whatever help you
2:13:32want me to go do. If even if it means
2:13:34take myself in the middle of somewhere
2:13:36where someone wants me to go to get him
2:13:39to make sure he's okay, I would do it
2:13:42because I love Ganon and I love my
2:13:45family and I love the ground that
2:13:47everybody walks on. Albert, Harley,
2:13:49Lena, Ganon. That is my opinion. Okay.
2:13:55>> And I I know in the end you might think
2:13:57you got whatever by this and forensics
2:14:00and and whatever. And I'm not arguing
2:14:03any of that. Very smart to know that
2:14:05you're a smart man. You're not stupid.
2:14:08But I need the help, the resources to
2:14:12not be attacked anymore,
2:14:16to know that something on the stupid app
2:14:18was a silly mistake. Okay.
2:14:22So, you brought someone in.
2:14:24>> So, I I'm not I would talk to you.
2:14:26>> I know. I get it.
2:14:30>> So,
2:14:34I'm representing law enforcement from
2:14:36Colorado.
2:14:37>> Thank you.
2:14:38>> Okay. And if you tell me something, even
2:14:41though you know we started a recording
2:14:43now and whatever else and if you say we
2:14:45won't talk unless we turn off the
2:14:46recording, that can happen, but I'm
2:14:49going to pull in all those resources.
2:14:51>> No, I want you to pull in resources. I'm
2:14:53not denying you to say pull in the
2:14:55resources. I'm looking at you from
2:14:58mother to a father. I have been scared
2:15:02because I don't know what's going to
2:15:03happen. Not with because I did
2:15:06something. I wouldn't have told you that
2:15:07there was people, random people
2:15:10intervention or all these things if
2:15:12there wouldn't have been. Okay? I
2:15:14wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have
2:15:17done that.
2:15:18>> Could have easily just been like, "Hey,
2:15:21if if there was truly what you guys had
2:15:24thought about, I don't think you
2:15:25intentionally done it. There was this
2:15:26accident." Common sense well enough and
2:15:30know stick the phone and say an accident
2:15:32happened. I'm not stupid. Okay? might be
2:15:36freaking out because I don't know how to
2:15:38get this help, but I'm not stupid. Okay?
2:15:42And that's looking you dead in the eye
2:15:43to tell you I did not hurt Ganon at all.
2:15:47Okay? Swear to you. So, if you're
2:15:51willing to give me the opportunity to
2:15:54talk to you, I don't want to be like
2:15:55watched by people. I don't want to be,
2:15:57oh, whatever.
2:15:58>> This is a separate recorder. This is
2:16:00mine,
2:16:01>> right? And so does the mermaid channel.
2:16:03>> Yeah, they do.
2:16:06Right.
2:16:08But I need the help.
2:16:09>> You'll get the help.
2:16:11>> Okay.
2:16:12>> All we're focusing on is finding the
2:16:14kid.
2:16:14>> Okay. And that's what I want. I don't
2:16:16want to look at like you look at me like
2:16:18I'm just this bad person who doesn't
2:16:20want to find our child.
2:16:22>> That's not it. I just don't when it's
2:16:24when it came at me as an attack, okay?
2:16:27Because that's what originally happened.
2:16:29Okay? And I get it. They have to do
2:16:31their job because guess what? They're
2:16:33probably parents, too, right? So, they
2:16:35have to do their job, right? Okay. I get
2:16:38that part. Okay. You can ask me about
2:16:40any of these, whatever.
2:16:43Whatever. I'm sure it was something I
2:16:45saw somewhere and I don't never looked
2:16:46up anything about stepchild. I've looked
2:16:48up how I haven't got help and how I
2:16:51wanted help and how I wanted to be the
2:16:54person that they always were. Why? I
2:16:56didn't even want them to go home. I
2:16:59didn't even want them to have to go to
2:17:00their mother at all. at all because I
2:17:03had to see the pain and agony I was
2:17:06going through worry.
2:17:09So you're going to take my character
2:17:11based upon
2:17:12>> No, I'm just part listen when when a kid
2:17:16goes missing,
2:17:17>> we don't only look at
2:17:19>> the person. We look at the entire
2:17:21neighborhood. We go through people's
2:17:22closets. We go everybody's lives is
2:17:25turned upside down. And I'll tell you
2:17:27right now, since if any of this is since
2:17:29then, of course, I've looked at what
2:17:31people said. If people said something
2:17:33about the FBI, I Google FBI.
2:17:35>> You worry too much about what we think.
2:17:37If you will get us there, we can protect
2:17:39you.
2:17:40>> Okay? So then I talk to you and I don't
2:17:43talk to My Beach Police Department and
2:17:45all these other people. I talk to you
2:17:48and I explain to you.
2:17:51Okay? Because you already saying you are
2:17:54charging me with something,
2:17:56>> it's already been charged.
2:17:56>> That's what I'm saying. You're already
2:17:58saying that. Okay.
2:18:00So,
2:18:02how do I know that when I get you when I
2:18:04give you this here information?
2:18:06>> But that's that's what this recording
2:18:07does. It protects you because I've
2:18:08already told you we will do this.
2:18:12Well, we used to not record things, but
2:18:14we do now. And the only people sitting
2:18:17in there is the district attorney and
2:18:19some of the El Paso people. Myrtle Beach
2:18:21has nothing to do with this. They helped
2:18:23us find you,
2:18:24>> right?
2:18:25>> So, they have to be involved in this.
2:18:27>> I understand. Nothing against Myrtle
2:18:28Beach.
2:18:28>> My Myrtle Beach is not in on this.
2:18:32>> Okay. Well,
2:18:33>> if someone else took Ganon
2:18:35in here and I just I don't like that. I
2:18:38want to be able to have emotional raw
2:18:40conversation.
2:18:41>> Let's do it now.
2:18:42>> I can't.
2:18:44>> I mean, we can't go anywhere. Where do
2:18:46you want to go?
2:18:46>> I cuz I don't think people are sitting
2:18:48there.
2:18:48>> Nobody's sitting there. Okay. Someone's
2:18:50watching from there.
2:18:51>> They are in the other room. Mr. District
2:18:52attorney. Do you want me to tell them
2:18:54they can't watch?
2:18:55>> No. I want to talk to someone in a raw
2:18:58real conversation that you can see truly
2:19:02in my heart the situation. That's what I
2:19:05want.
2:19:06>> That's what this is.
2:19:07>> No, it's not. So,
2:19:09>> but how can I make
2:19:10>> Who is it? The district attorney from
2:19:12Colorado.
2:19:12>> Yes.
2:19:12>> Yeah. See,
2:19:14>> come on.
2:19:15>> I can ask him to leave the room.
2:19:16>> No, it's not about leaving the room.
2:19:18It's about I'm asking for instead of
2:19:21going through all you know this whatever
2:19:24sitting here wasting our time or
2:19:26whatever I'm asking just to talk to you
2:19:29cuz I'm taking your word that you're
2:19:31going to help me and you're going to
2:19:33provide the resources from wherever you
2:19:35said you have been.
2:19:37>> Before I do that, let me ask you some
2:19:39questions, okay? Because this is our
2:19:41investigation,
2:19:42>> right? You're taking all these trips up
2:19:45to Palmer Lake, multiple trips,
2:19:48>> different cars, renting a car.
2:19:50>> Okay.
2:19:51>> How are you not involved in this?
2:19:53>> First off, I didn't never get the drive
2:19:55to rent a car anywhere because
2:19:57immediately once we let me let me go and
2:19:59correct on this now. Once we got to
2:20:02rental car or whatever, the National
2:20:04Guard was there. Everybody was in the
2:20:06house. We went and Albert's truck the
2:20:09whole entire day going to come and go
2:20:11and all these places. So, I never drove
2:20:13the rental car anywhere and it's already
2:20:16been corrected from budget about the
2:20:18rental car situation. I had to get that
2:20:20corrected yesterday. I never even drove
2:20:22it anywhere because I didn't get to. So,
2:20:25what whatever GPS you get from the
2:20:27rental car, it never was driven by me
2:20:29anywhere but literally up the street
2:20:31back. I didn't hardly drive it anywhere.
2:20:33So, there's no rental car driven to any
2:20:35kind of places at all.
2:20:39The only time I went anywhere a car
2:20:41might have been maybe 40, 50 miles. I
2:20:43don't know. No more than a 100 miles
2:20:45counting there and back. And I was just
2:20:46driving it through the day because I
2:20:48didn't have I went back to get my car.
2:20:51>> But you're the only one at the pet store
2:20:55>> for what?
2:20:55>> We can see the video there.
2:20:57>> Not in the rental car.
2:20:58>> No, I'm not saying rental car. I'm just
2:20:59sorry. I'm just working through this
2:21:01>> to say if someone else is involved.
2:21:03>> Okay.
2:21:05>> It's only you there. And what the pets
2:21:07smart has nothing to do with this.
2:21:09>> This is Monday though.
2:21:11>> Yeah, but the pets smart has nothing to
2:21:12do with this at all
2:21:14>> with Ganon's disappear.
2:21:15>> And that's where the whole entire thing
2:21:17is where that's where I just said I know
2:21:19you not going to be able to trust you
2:21:20cuz you just immediately went to the
2:21:22pets smart.
2:21:22>> Well, I went from the rental car. I
2:21:24said, "So what?" But I'm trying the
2:21:25reason why my mind is going there. It's
2:21:27going to where do we have video?
2:21:28>> Mhm.
2:21:29>> What What did we miss?
2:21:30>> Mhm. if there's someone else involved.
2:21:33>> And did you not see me completely
2:21:36freaking out like at the pet? Did you
2:21:39not see that?
2:21:41>> Yeah.
2:21:41>> Did you not see me walking back and
2:21:43forth at the pet?
2:21:44>> Mhm.
2:21:45>> Okay. So,
2:21:47>> yeah, but we can't interpret your
2:21:48behavior is what if Ganon's hurt in the
2:21:50back of the truck? What if Ganon talks
2:21:52to someone? We don't know why you're
2:21:54freaking out.
2:21:54>> If Gand was hurt in the back of the
2:21:56truck, you already have the truck, too.
2:21:59>> Yeah. Do you see what I'm saying?
2:22:02>> That that's not even remotely even the
2:22:05case at all. That's not even remotely
2:22:06the case at all.
2:22:07>> But we don't know because there's no
2:22:08Ganon to tell us, right?
2:22:10>> Does that make sense?
2:22:10>> Trust me, I want Gon to be able to tell
2:22:13you because I know he would walk right
2:22:16in that room and tell you that I would
2:22:19never hurt him and did not. Guaranteed.
2:22:24Doesn't mean I've always been the
2:22:26perfect stepparent. Doesn't mean I
2:22:29haven't fussed with people. Doesn't mean
2:22:31I haven't been stressed or whatever
2:22:35because I never wanted them to leave and
2:22:37go to this place with their mom. That's
2:22:41a fact. Complete fact. I begged and
2:22:45begged and begged for them to save me.
2:22:48So until you realize that as my
2:22:50character,
2:22:52you're not going to realize be able to
2:22:53help me. But I've already said from what
2:22:57I can tell you don't have any violence
2:22:58in your background.
2:23:00>> I'm not violent. I don't hurt people.
2:23:02>> Yeah. So I'm willing to chase. You have
2:23:05a lot of resources right here.
2:23:06>> But you just see you just and told me
2:23:08though that the Petco there was we've
2:23:10already seen the video. There's no one
2:23:12out there.
2:23:13>> But we don't again
2:23:15>> you saw the inside of the video for
2:23:17Petco.
2:23:17>> Right. And we saw the parking lot.
2:23:19>> Okay.
2:23:20>> But we can't see inside the truck very
2:23:21well. Okay.
2:23:23>> Three.
2:23:27You're 100% saying you can't see inside
2:23:30the truck very well. Okay. But you
2:23:33didn't see you you didn't see anything
2:23:35else at Petco Poe or whatever.
2:23:37>> That's not me.
2:23:38>> Okay.
2:23:38>> So, when I say we
2:23:40>> Well, my job you
2:23:42>> Yeah. My job is not to look at all the
2:23:44video.
2:23:45>> Okay.
2:23:45>> We have everything in a case like this.
2:23:47I told you a bunch of leads come in,
2:23:49etc. Mhm.
2:23:50>> And we have someone review Petco and
2:23:51tell us we saw nothing or we saw this or
2:23:54we saw that. I don't have time to do all
2:23:55that stuff.
2:23:56>> Right.
2:23:57>> So when I say me or we, I didn't look at
2:24:00the Petco video myself.
2:24:01>> Okay. But it became a point of
2:24:03contention when it's completely
2:24:04irrelevant.
2:24:06Completely irrelevant.
2:24:10>> Yeah. But
2:24:12>> so you're testing my experience.
2:24:14>> No, no, no. I'm not testing your
2:24:16experience. Absolutely not. I'm actually
2:24:18asking for your help, not testing your
2:24:20experience.
2:24:21>> And I'm failing your test
2:24:23>> because everything that I've looked at
2:24:25in this case, when you see the blood
2:24:28spatter on the wall, you see a big pool
2:24:30in the corner.
2:24:31>> You see your shoes that we've collected
2:24:33with Ganon's blood on the bottom of him.
2:24:36>> Okay.
2:24:38>> And then you point to Eduardo,
2:24:41>> who doesn't exist, or maybe he did
2:24:43exist, and we don't have a last name.
2:24:46Then you point to Quincy Brown and then
2:24:48you say Uncle Matt these these names and
2:24:50stuff and it's like I've seen it before.
2:24:54>> Mhm.
2:24:54>> And that that was Harold. That was
2:24:57>> But I'm not Harold.
2:24:57>> I'm not saying you are, but I'm This is
2:25:00my experience.
2:25:00>> Right. I got you.
2:25:01>> I'm not saying you are. But it didn't go
2:25:03well for him because
2:25:05>> his attorney got up. He's one of the
2:25:07best attorneys in Colorado. He cost
2:25:09$600,000.
2:25:10>> Mhm.
2:25:11>> Craig Truman. And he started
2:25:13>> paid $600,000. Okay. with his dead
2:25:15wife's money.
2:25:18And um Craig got up and said, "Herold is
2:25:22not a murderer, but he is a liar."
2:25:24>> Right.
2:25:25>> And that's what I was worried about when
2:25:28I first got the case because they asked
2:25:29me to come in and work that case because
2:25:31I had worked other cases like him.
2:25:33>> And Harold's just sitting there all
2:25:34confident, whatever else. Please don't
2:25:36say this is you. I'm just saying this is
2:25:37my experience because Harold told all
2:25:39these different stories.
2:25:41But when you start out with your defense
2:25:43attorney saying, "My client is a liar.
2:25:45He's just making up crap."
2:25:47>> Mhm.
2:25:47>> That's to the victim's family on how
2:25:49Tony died. That's to his friends at
2:25:51church. And all them got up and
2:25:53testified. These are the different ways
2:25:55Tony died.
2:25:56>> Again, that's not good.
2:25:58>> But he might be today. You don't know
2:26:00that if someone is willing, if this,
2:26:03whether it's related or not, the head
2:26:05thing, if someone's willing to hold a
2:26:06kid for 30 days, how are they not
2:26:09willing to kill him? Can I ask you
2:26:10something or can I say something?
2:26:12>> Yes.
2:26:13>> Even if
2:26:15the scenario would have been me just
2:26:18going to go talk to the lady here and
2:26:22telling them,
2:26:23"Hey, this is what happened. This is who
2:26:27did it. I know that he was hurt by
2:26:31someone." You know what the next
2:26:33question you're going to say to me? Who
2:26:35was this person? And all I'd say to you
2:26:36was, "Oh, well, can you help me figure
2:26:38it out from this app or can you help me
2:26:40figure out from this?" And you know what
2:26:41you would say to me? Oh, yeah. Sure.
2:26:44Right.
2:26:46That's exactly what you would say to me.
2:26:49So, finding the unless I can take you
2:26:54directly to where Ganon is safe and
2:26:57sound, that is the only way that you're
2:27:00going to be like, "Oh, okay. Wait." And
2:27:03she was telling the truth about
2:27:04something. So this person is telling you
2:27:06that he's safe.
2:27:07>> So that's the only thing you would have
2:27:09been like.
2:27:11I've even asked y'all or I say y'all
2:27:14again. I mean you're
2:27:16bad.
2:27:17>> I get it.
2:27:17>> Hey, hey, please help. Why is it there?
2:27:21Please, please, please. You're not
2:27:23understanding. Like I begged that. I
2:27:25have begged that completely.
2:27:28like day in and day out.
2:27:32Magnet
2:27:34magnet.
2:27:36>> I don't I still don't understand,
2:27:37Laticia. The thing I don't understand is
2:27:40you're a good person.
2:27:41>> Mhm.
2:27:42>> If you're a good person, why would you
2:27:43not trade your life for Ganon?
2:27:45>> I I do I want to trade my life for
2:27:47Ganon. But what you have to also
2:27:48understand is not just my life.
2:27:51If it would be just me trade my life for
2:27:53Ganon, I would be totally okay with
2:27:55that.
2:27:55>> Now you're talking about more than an
2:27:57individual. No, I'm talking about my I'm
2:27:59talking about other people in the
2:28:00family. I'm talking about
2:28:01>> No, I'm talking about sorry involved in
2:28:04this. You're talking about more than one
2:28:06person because there's no way one person
2:28:08is going to take out multiple people if
2:28:10they talk.
2:28:10>> I didn't I never said someone was like
2:28:12multiple people. I never said it was any
2:28:15>> But how can you be so afraid of one
2:28:16person? because
2:28:20it's because of because of any actions
2:28:22that could be taken to lead up to why
2:28:26you may know this person or why you
2:28:29might down there.
2:28:31>> Is he law enforcement or something that
2:28:33has more power than you would think?
2:28:36>> Sir, I want to help, but I need
2:28:38protection.
2:28:39>> I told you I will give you protection.
2:28:41And I'm saying this with attorneys
2:28:43listening to me say this. They'd be
2:28:45rushing in the room right now saying,
2:28:47"You can't promise her that." But I
2:28:48can't.
2:28:50>> Okay. Well, who who can who can promise
2:28:52that?
2:28:53>> Do you want to talk with the district
2:28:54attorney?
2:28:54>> Sure.
2:28:55>> Okay. I'll bring her in. Do you need to
2:28:56go to the restroom?
2:28:57>> No.
2:28:58>> Okay.
2:29:11>> Hi.
2:29:13I'm with the district attorney's office.
2:29:17>> Just so you know, I looked behind there.
2:29:19This this place is under construction.
2:29:20There's no one back. I can walk you back
2:29:22there if you want to look.
2:29:23>> Oh, no. I believe you. I was talking
2:29:25about all these people watching.
2:29:27>> Yeah. And Martha's been watching.
2:29:29>> Yeah,
2:29:29>> I have. Yeah.
2:29:31>> So, John said you wanted to talk to me
2:29:32>> about protection.
2:29:34>> So, I I don't have any trust in anyone.
2:29:38Obviously, I know I told him that I said
2:29:40things to Albert because I was mad and I
2:29:42said, whatever. But how do I know that
2:29:46I'm going to get help? Like, because I
2:29:50didn't hurt any, okay, at all. But I
2:29:54need the help to figure out
2:29:57how
2:29:59how we're going to get to the end.
2:30:00>> Let me read you what she wrote. Okay.
2:30:02>> Or I'll I'll just show it to you.
2:30:03>> I And I wrote Saturday. at home. Yeah,
2:30:07>> I had thing was Saturday. I had nothing
2:30:08to do with this. Check my phone for an
2:30:10app. This will explain.
2:30:12>> So, we do have your phone and we have
2:30:15gone through like these are keystrokes,
2:30:17>> right? Right. I'm talking about like
2:30:19it's a download apps.
2:30:22>> Did you have a different phone beside
2:30:23the one that was in your van?
2:30:26>> Did you have another phone? Like a
2:30:28second phone?
2:30:29>> Yeah.
2:30:30>> No, no, no, no. It's the same phone. The
2:30:31same. No, not the same phone. You guys
2:30:34have the the phone. That was just
2:30:36someone else's phone.
2:30:37>> Okay.
2:30:37>> Yeah.
2:30:38>> But at this at this time that
2:30:41>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying that's the same
2:30:42the 843 is the same number.
2:30:45>> But you didn't have a second one that
2:30:46this app might be on.
2:30:47>> No, no, no, no. I only have this phone.
2:30:51>> So,
2:30:53and let me explain, Martha. My
2:30:55understanding what Leticia is asking is
2:30:57how does she know since I've said if
2:30:59there's a bad guy or guys out there that
2:31:02did this to Ganon that she can tell us
2:31:05where these guys are and she's concerned
2:31:08for not only her safety but the safety
2:31:10of her family
2:31:12>> right
2:31:13>> and how
2:31:14>> he asked me would I trade my life for
2:31:15gammons and I said yes but I said it's
2:31:18also other people like how do I know
2:31:20that everyone else
2:31:23is are is not going to be enough like in
2:31:27how do I know that you guys aren't just
2:31:29trying to be like whatever if I walk you
2:31:31through anything or can help you with
2:31:33anything. I don't want to be just thrown
2:31:35somewhere like being like okay well you
2:31:38didn't tell me this and I want to be
2:31:40able to help you and work together
2:31:42because I'm sure you have kids or
2:31:43grandkids or whatever I do. I don't want
2:31:46to sound like I'm coldarted and I'm just
2:31:49tired of being like the person chased
2:31:51instead of being able to have someone
2:31:53actually have compassion to help me.
2:31:56>> Well, I I was a little bit confused when
2:31:59I was watching it cuz John talked about
2:32:00how they're the FBI and they're the
2:32:04premier law enforcement agency that
2:32:05could protect you, could protect your
2:32:08entire family. Um, and they if Gan's
2:32:13alive, they
2:32:14>> Okay.
2:32:15I can't make you any promises,
2:32:17>> right?
2:32:18>> Um because obviously there's a lot of
2:32:22information that you have that we don't.
2:32:24>> Okay?
2:32:24>> So, there aren't any promises. I can't
2:32:26come in here and and promise you
2:32:28anything regarding the court case or um
2:32:31the the arrest warrant or your
2:32:33involvement in it.
2:32:34>> Okay?
2:32:35>> But I can tell you what the number one
2:32:36priority is,
2:32:37>> right?
2:32:38>> And it's to find Ganon,
2:32:39>> right? And so if you were talking to
2:32:43some small law enforcement agency and
2:32:45they said, "Sure, we'll protect you." I
2:32:47mean, I can see how you would be
2:32:49suspicious of that.
2:32:50>> Well, I didn't You guys are an elite
2:32:52agency. That's why I was asking.
2:32:54>> Yeah. I mean, they're they're the most
2:32:55elite agency there is.
2:32:56>> Oh, okay.
2:32:57>> And so, if there was a time for for you
2:33:01to feel like that you could protect um
2:33:05>> that recorder, we can
2:33:07>> cuz I know you have yours. That's what
2:33:08I'm saying. as a backup.
2:33:11>> So, um I if you want the recording
2:33:14turned off, you need to tell us really
2:33:15explicitly that that's your choice
2:33:18because the recordings um have been put
2:33:20into law so that there's not a debate
2:33:23where he says you said one thing and you
2:33:25said I didn't. Right? So, it's to
2:33:27protect the person being interviewed.
2:33:29>> Right. But if it's something that you
2:33:31>> It's not that I'm I'm trying to I just
2:33:32don't It's just I wanted to have like a
2:33:34conversation with him just him and try
2:33:37to explain to him in complete detail
2:33:40about everything because I do want this.
2:33:43I want the help to the next level to
2:33:45find out where he is. I really do. You
2:33:48guys have looked, you've went to GPS's
2:33:52and all this, but you haven't found
2:33:54because you're coming after me. And I
2:33:56understand you're going to say, "Well,
2:33:58this is what we have to go on." And I
2:34:01respect that totally. But it was the
2:34:03first time I ever get to sit down with
2:34:04people to actually to say, "Okay, this
2:34:07is what happened. This is what I know.
2:34:10Please help me." Because then I feel
2:34:12like if I don't, cuz see, I easily would
2:34:15be like, "Hey, just give me an attorney
2:34:16and call it a day." I really want Do you
2:34:19think I want to waste time if I got
2:34:21resources when that's all I've asked
2:34:23for?
2:34:24>> I don't want to waste time.
2:34:26and and if there's a chance he can be
2:34:28saved, everybody wants that information.
2:34:32But the only people who can save him are
2:34:33the FBI.
2:34:36>> Um I don't want you to think that this
2:34:38is being broadcast to the whole world,
2:34:40>> right?
2:34:41>> You know, there's another DA with me.
2:34:42There's no PO County person,
2:34:44>> right? Um,
2:34:48>> and they're the ones what what the
2:34:50reason that we do that also is
2:34:53I might miss something and I probably
2:34:54do. And so then I can go talk to him and
2:34:56say, "What am I missing?" And
2:34:58>> right
2:34:59>> and then also it protects you because if
2:35:01I make a promise that I can't deliver on
2:35:03with the FBI, then Martha gets to hear
2:35:05it and then she would knock on the door.
2:35:06>> But as soon as I give you information,
2:35:08what's going to happen is someone's
2:35:10going to say, "Well, you were involved
2:35:12with this person. you were cheating with
2:35:14this person. You were doing this. I'm
2:35:16just giving you scenarios.
2:35:18>> But that's a lot better situation than
2:35:20you're in right now.
2:35:20>> But what if I wasn't? That's my thing.
2:35:22And that that's where the burden of
2:35:24proof I can't I can't depend my life on
2:35:27the burden of proof to be involved with
2:35:29just someone thinking that I'm just a
2:35:31bad person. I did not hurt Yannon. Okay.
2:35:35[Music]
2:35:36>> There aren't any promises I can make you
2:35:38about.
2:35:41Um,
2:35:43I I can tell you that we're looking for
2:35:44the truth and it seemed to me from
2:35:47listening to it that you had
2:35:50information.
2:35:51Um, but I can't make you any promises.
2:35:54>> But what I'm saying is if you're saying
2:35:56to me, I have information, you're going
2:35:58to come and say, "Well, you should have
2:36:00given this information when I did
2:36:01nothing but attack." That's what I'm
2:36:03saying. You see what I'm saying?
2:36:05>> You can't armchair quarterback yourself,
2:36:07though.
2:36:08>> Do you know what I'm saying? You you
2:36:10can't look into the future and say,
2:36:12"Well, we're going to say this because
2:36:14you said this." If what Mark and I are
2:36:17saying are true and that our only focus
2:36:19is Ganon, we don't care who leads us
2:36:22there. We just need Ganon. Then you are
2:36:25protecting yourself by telling us this.
2:36:27If you never give us this information,
2:36:29then you don't protect yourself. And
2:36:30then we have one person to prosecute for
2:36:33Ganon. when our focus is who took him
2:36:37and who hurt him, not with when people
2:36:40came forward with information.
2:36:42>> How do I know that? Because that that's
2:36:46my that's my biggest thing. I know
2:36:47you're saying that, but like whatever I
2:36:50can do to help, I can help you. But I'm
2:36:52saying how do I know that if let's just
2:36:55say it's whatever I tell you a specific
2:36:59person, okay, let's just say that. Okay.
2:37:02Then my my thing is what you your thing
2:37:05is going to be like well you held this
2:37:08information for me and I'm having to
2:37:10utilize my resources.
2:37:12Okay. And do all those things not
2:37:14understanding that maybe sometimes there
2:37:17are people who are afraid of any other
2:37:21things going on.
2:37:23>> Uh every day in my work there are people
2:37:26who report things later than some people
2:37:30think they should. every day. Um, and we
2:37:33try to focus on the violent crime and we
2:37:36certainly try to focus on the kids. Um,
2:37:39I know that you want assurances and you
2:37:42want me to be able to say, you know, I
2:37:45will or won't do this. Um, and I can't
2:37:49make you promises cuz I'm in the dark,
2:37:51right? It would be foolish for me to
2:37:52make you promises, but I have people who
2:37:56late report sex assaults all the time.
2:37:59We have people who come forward years
2:38:01later.
2:38:02Our interest is in the truth about the
2:38:05crime.
2:38:08This is really all conversations I have.
2:38:11Um, and I know that you wanted to have a
2:38:14frank conversation with them where you
2:38:15could really tell them. So, unless you
2:38:17need me, I'm going to step out.
2:38:19>> Okay. But you're still going back in the
2:38:21rooms.
2:38:22>> Unless you turn it off. Yes.
2:38:24>> Yes. We'll turn it off.
2:38:26>> Um,
2:38:27>> how do I know that? But not that I don't
2:38:28want you to know anything. I want to be
2:38:30able to like really talk to him and just
2:38:33>> know that I can sincere see in your
2:38:35heart you're gonna help me.
2:38:37>> I can bring you back there and you can
2:38:38see us turn it off, but the truth is I
2:38:41could just turn it back on again. I
2:38:42know.
2:38:42>> I mean, there's a point where no one can
2:38:44verify everything you want.
2:38:46>> Yeah. Well, plus that's her life. She
2:38:48has to tell the truth just like I do to
2:38:50you when you don't want her to listen to
2:38:52you. You kind of have to look at logic
2:38:53here.
2:38:54>> Okay.
2:38:54>> I don't think Martha would throw away.
2:38:56>> I don't And I don't want you to know. I
2:38:57want you to have all the information.
2:38:59That's it.
2:39:00>> So, are you okay with the recording
2:39:02continuing? We just won't be monitoring
2:39:03it.
2:39:04>> No, I don't. He said that
2:39:06>> you wanted to turn off.
2:39:07>> He said I could just talk to him.
2:39:08>> Okay. Um, so we're just going to turn
2:39:10off the recording and that's your
2:39:12choice. That's what you want, right?
2:39:14>> Yes.
2:39:14>> Um, and so he controls the turning it
2:39:16off from here or are they?
2:39:18>> No, you'll have to ask someone.
2:39:20>> And so it's it's just going to get
2:39:21turned off.
2:39:22>> Okay. And then once it's done, then I'll
2:39:25come back up and we'll turn it back on
2:39:27>> and it'll it'll be a conversation
2:39:29between the two of you and it'll be like
2:39:31the way um law enforcement.
2:39:32>> All right. Anything else for me?
2:39:34>> No, I'm going to go get him. Turn it
2:39:35off.
2:39:37>> I know that they're not.
2:39:40>> Do you want me to?
2:39:41>> No, it's fine. I just
2:39:43>> It's not that I don't want them to know
2:39:44anything. I just don't want it. And like
2:39:46I know that people are leaking
2:39:48information.
2:39:49>> That's not going to happen. That doesn't
2:39:50do us any good from El Paso.
2:39:53>> Mhm.
2:39:55>> The sheriff's office.
2:39:56>> Mhm.
2:39:58Yeah. That's why I've had this hard time
2:40:00with like trusting anybody. I actually
2:40:03was trying to reach out to the uh
2:40:05Barbara lady. You know Barbara?
2:40:08>> Amber?
2:40:08>> No. Who's Barbara?
2:40:09>> Who's Barbara?
2:40:10>> She was like another like an FBI lady. I
2:40:12was actually going to talk to you today.
2:40:15>> Yes.
2:40:16>> Okay. So apparently this recording runs
2:40:1924 so it can't be turned off.
2:40:22>> Okay.
2:40:23>> Um but the other FBI agents um also they
2:40:27have a a protocol where there has to be
2:40:28another person for security. Those are
2:40:30the choices we have. But we can move you
2:40:32to another room that's not being
2:40:34recorded if that's something that you
2:40:35want.
2:40:36>> Okay.
2:40:37>> But another FBI agent another agent in
2:40:39the room.
2:40:40>> Okay. Is it I mean someone you know
2:40:44>> you don't know.
2:40:46Yeah, unless they're from a different
2:40:48office and even then I've met most of
2:40:49the ones from Middle Beach.
2:40:51>> Okay,
2:40:53work. Um, so let me They'll go set up a
2:40:56room someplace else. Um, and then we'll
2:40:58do it. It'll be the two FBI agents and
2:41:00you and the recording speech. Okay.
2:41:01>> Okay.
2:41:04>> Did Did she step over?
2:41:07>> It's pretty incredible.
2:41:10>> It's not that I don't want them to have
2:41:11permission. I want to be able to like
2:41:13really get your help and you tell me
2:41:15that what what steps can we take or what
2:41:18steps can you take I guess cuz you said
2:41:20you have ability to to do resources or
2:41:23or whatever.
2:41:24>> We find people all over the world. I'm
2:41:26finding a guy right now who changed his
2:41:28identity and went to Russia.
2:41:29>> Wow.
2:41:31>> Yeah. So I just so you know if you look
2:41:33on that paper I did look that up only
2:41:34cuz I was just wondering like if you
2:41:36could because I wanted to know like if
2:41:38someone with whatever how could you tell
2:41:41really quickly find them out
2:41:43>> before we do all this stuff. I've never
2:41:46seen and not to say it hasn't happened
2:41:49someone take a kid and not ask for
2:41:51ransom
2:41:52>> and the kid be okay.
2:41:55>> No I did I sent to the FBI those
2:41:57messages that you guys had on my phone.
2:42:00Yes.
2:42:02Did you Did you get those?
2:42:04>> I think you sent it to the FBI.
2:42:07>> I Whatever that email address is, I
2:42:10think it's that Barbara something. I I
2:42:12want to tell you what the name is. I
2:42:13think it's Barbara. So like
2:42:16>> Barbara from the FBI.
2:42:17>> Yeah. There 720 number and I feel like
2:42:19her name's Barbara.
2:42:23And my friend Amy has been talking to
2:42:25her a lot.
2:42:28Are you sure she's from the FBI? Our
2:42:31numbers are all 303.
2:42:32>> No, this is a 720 number.
2:42:35>> She's not FBI. Her name is Sparkler.
2:42:39>> Wow. I I can tell you the number. It's
2:42:41in the other phone. But yeah, Barber
2:42:44something and 720 is the first three
2:42:46digits.
2:42:48>> Yeah. Well, she's not working this case
2:42:50cuz I would not
2:42:53believe FDI is working.
2:42:54>> Yeah, I know. This is
2:42:56>> How did you get in touch with Barbara?
2:42:58>> My friend Amy, she called my friend Amy
2:43:01and was like asking questions cuz I
2:43:03guess originally people wanted to know a
2:43:05flight game and it came like with me or
2:43:07something and uh my friend Amy gave me
2:43:10the information which was this I think
2:43:12it was a 720 number and anything I found
2:43:16like the Snapchat I sent over to this
2:43:19late like to this whatever this number
2:43:21was I sent to it.
2:43:26Mhm. They've ever made it to us.
2:43:28>> So you There's no one named Barbara.
2:43:31>> No, we have a We have a Barbara. There's
2:43:33Barbara.
2:43:34>> Tell her that she's not She doesn't even
2:43:37work these sort of crimes.
2:43:38>> Yeah. No, this is the late Barbara and
2:43:40this was 72 number. And if I had the
2:43:42other phone, I can tell you exactly what
2:43:43the number was.
2:43:44>> When did you send this to her?
2:43:45>> This would have been like Okay. So then
2:43:48this happened 3 days ago. Um, and then
2:43:51it happened February 5th, I think.
2:43:56So, what happened was I got all the
2:43:58messages when I logged back in for my
2:44:00ICO. I got all the messages that were
2:44:04like just sitting there. And so, I took
2:44:06that message and I forwarded it to like
2:44:10I I sent it to people and I sent it to
2:44:11Albert and I said, "Hey," I said, "Can
2:44:14you get someone to like look into this?"
2:44:16I said it could be just people, you
2:44:18know, sending random messages or it
2:44:20could be creepers, you know, like people
2:44:22whatever being stupid or it could be
2:44:25just in general, you know, um the actual
2:44:29person and so no one ever said anything
2:44:32to me about it. Then I get the Snapchat.
2:44:35Okay. So that
2:44:36>> Let me let me interrupt you for a
2:44:38second.
2:44:38>> Mhm.
2:44:40>> Now Tisha, there's an 11year-old kid
2:44:43again. We have to go back there.
2:44:4511-year-old kid injuries in the house.
2:44:49Now we know that
2:44:51taken
2:44:52and you don't come to law enforcement
2:44:55for
2:44:56>> this was this was a law enforcement
2:44:57person Barbara I mean how did you get
2:45:00him from except through your friend you
2:45:02had Amber from the FBI
2:45:04>> right but she said that she worked with
2:45:06the FBI and she was going to send
2:45:07information. She said that she worked
2:45:09with Amber. I swear you if you call Amy,
2:45:12you can get the number from her to find
2:45:14out what what barber who who the barber
2:45:16lady was. And she was actually emailing
2:45:19her today.
2:45:20>> But but if you told them back then and
2:45:23you trusted them with that information,
2:45:26>> this is why I
2:45:27>> Why are you not today? When I
2:45:30>> because no one has helped. I tried since
2:45:32February 5th the 5th. Today's March.
2:45:36That's why you see I had such a problem
2:45:38with trust is because
2:45:40>> I was there when you were talking to
2:45:42Amber though that was your chance at
2:45:45>> Amber.
2:45:45>> Yeah, that's a legit FBI.
2:45:47>> And then is that what happened when I
2:45:49was talking to Amber? I got a message
2:45:50back from the attorney who said not to
2:45:52talk to you guys because you guys a
2:45:54weren't lead agency or something like
2:45:56that and then b not to say anything else
2:45:58unless he was present. That was when I
2:46:01was trying to talk to Amber.
2:46:03>> But why wasn't that with Barbara then?
2:46:05because I gave it to my friend Amy who
2:46:07was had this relationship with Barbara
2:46:09like trying to check on her.
2:46:10>> See, and I've again this sounds like a
2:46:13lot of your calls
2:46:15>> to where you're you're pointing fingers
2:46:16in different directions but never giving
2:46:18specific things.
2:46:20>> Right. I did
2:46:21>> right now. I mean, if Ganon is somewhere
2:46:24and you can get us there and they he
2:46:27sent proof of life or a picture of Ganon
2:46:29or whatever else,
2:46:30>> it makes no sense for someone for some
2:46:33man to have an 11year-old child
2:46:35>> that it wasn't that. It was because we
2:46:38thought it was someone playing games and
2:46:40if someone was playing games, we were
2:46:42trying to say that that person would
2:46:44have been like like obstructing or
2:46:47whatever. That was the whole point. Not
2:46:48some somebody had him and they were
2:46:51like, "Here, come get My point was it
2:46:53was that we thought it was someone, hey,
2:46:55here's someone playing games. Could you
2:46:56find out who this person is?"
2:46:58>> Yeah. But do you see where that's going?
2:46:59And all your talks without those are
2:47:01distractions. Those take up time.
2:47:03>> Yeah.
2:47:04>> And Ganon's over here somewhere.
2:47:07>> Yeah.
2:47:07>> And you were misleading law enforcement.
2:47:09>> No, I didn't mislead them.
2:47:11>> No. Well, well, you're misleading
2:47:12anybody who would report to us.
2:47:14>> No, I didn't mislead any of them. Who
2:47:16who did I mislead
2:47:18>> with all these other stories?
2:47:19>> That was to Albert. I wasn't misleading
2:47:21while
2:47:21>> but you knew we were in the room because
2:47:23>> and I that's I wouldn't have said stuff
2:47:25like that if I was trying to mislead. I
2:47:28was just being whatever Albert cuz he
2:47:29was making me upset. That's all.
2:47:31>> The dad of a kid who's can't is not
2:47:34finding his son
2:47:35>> because I'm also the stepmother who
2:47:38helped him get the kids and he wouldn't
2:47:40have gotten them without me. So yes, he
2:47:43would have.
2:47:44>> You're willing to do that to Al. But
2:47:46>> no, I already had apologized to him and
2:47:49said that was awful to say that to him
2:47:51out of anger. I had already done that.
2:47:53>> But before we kick this thing in motion
2:47:56about all this protection and whatever.
2:48:01Why haven't you said one thing though
2:48:03today? How how in the world would he
2:48:05suffer a head wound on Saturday that
2:48:07requires
2:48:07>> I didn't say it was a head wound. that
2:48:09require the head thing you're talking
2:48:10about when I said something to Albert. I
2:48:13said the head thing you're talking
2:48:14about.
2:48:16>> That's what I think.
2:48:17>> So the bike accident thing
2:48:18>> you already trying bike accident.
2:48:21>> No, the head thing talking to Albert.
2:48:23>> Never mind. I'll just I'll just wait
2:48:26until you are ready to talk to me with
2:48:28from beginning uh to the end cuz I
2:48:31already said that that is completely
2:48:33relevant to anything that what you're
2:48:35talking about. Completely relevant.
2:48:38I told Albert something else that was
2:48:41just stories just to be whatever to him
2:48:44and it was wrong and I already had
2:48:45apologized.
2:48:46>> So the things that you told Albert were
2:48:49that he was peeling these burns. Was
2:48:51that happening?
2:48:52>> I'm not going to answer any more
2:48:54questions because you're asking me about
2:48:56things telling Albert out of being
2:48:58upset. There was nothing happening that
2:49:01I was telling Albert. Nothing. I was
2:49:03literally just saying that to Albert
2:49:05because I was upset for him not standing
2:49:08by me and like figuring this out. This
2:49:10had nothing to do with me wanting to
2:49:12purposefully do whatever or tell you
2:49:15guys anything. That was not what it was.
2:49:18>> It was me being upset with
2:49:20>> Let me go back to
2:49:22a kid missing is about as bad as it
2:49:26gets.
2:49:26>> Oh yeah. I had a bank robbery 15 years
2:49:30ago to where a female went in the bank.
2:49:33She robbed the bank, she got the money,
2:49:36she came back to the car, and she drove
2:49:38away.
2:49:39>> Mhm.
2:49:41>> She was prosecuted for that. There were
2:49:43guys in her car with guns.
2:49:44>> Mhm.
2:49:46>> Okay. But what did she could have gone
2:49:47into the bank, said, "Lock those doors.
2:49:50Those guys are making me do this."
2:49:52>> Right.
2:49:53>> Yeah. yours is now we have 30ome days of
2:49:57gain and missing and you haven't talked
2:49:58to one law enforcement officer to say I
2:50:02know where he is and he's safe.
2:50:04>> I never I never did not try to talk to
2:50:06you guys. I never did not. No one ever
2:50:10when I felt like I was getting like
2:50:12completely like bam bam bam bam pardoned
2:50:15by the El Paso that no one ever reached
2:50:18out to me from FBI to like have a
2:50:20conversation like you did. No one. No
2:50:23one ever did.
2:50:24>> And you don't feel comfortable talking
2:50:25to El Pas so far?
2:50:28>> It's not that I don't feel comfortable
2:50:29talking to them. I just feel like from
2:50:32point A to point B, they have taken this
2:50:35approach and like you made even a
2:50:37comment about something about Palmer
2:50:39Lake and all the about this,
2:50:41>> right?
2:50:42>> Because that's that's the approach that
2:50:44they taken as if it's just a person who
2:50:46is not alive. And that bothers me
2:50:49because I don't want
2:50:52>> Well, we we're actually the ones we're
2:50:54the ones that told them that and that's
2:50:56statistically true.
2:50:57>> What you statistically tell what?
2:51:00>> From Ganon's age.
2:51:01>> Mhm.
2:51:01>> And from the amount of time that he's
2:51:03been missing, he is most likely dead.
2:51:06But what I'm saying is as a parent, is
2:51:09that maybe because you're like used to
2:51:13saying that or something, but is that
2:51:15something like as a parent you would
2:51:16want to hear?
2:51:18>> No. But would you rather hear a lie?
2:51:20Would you rather hear statistically he's
2:51:22probably alive when it's about a I would
2:51:26say it's less than a 1% chance at this
2:51:28point.
2:51:29>> But why
2:51:29>> him being 11? They would have asked for
2:51:31something if
2:51:32>> But why? Kidnappings don't happen
2:51:34without a demand or without it being a
2:51:37parental deal.
2:51:39>> Parental deal or a demand? Yeah.
2:51:41>> So, you're saying that nothing else,
2:51:43nobody intervenes ever?
2:51:45>> Ever.
2:51:45>> I've seen one other time, and again,
2:51:47I've worked violent crime in Denver for
2:51:4920 years, a little over.
2:51:51>> And I saw one kid wander down the
2:51:53street. He had autism.
2:51:54>> Mhm.
2:51:54>> And this was up in Brighton. And a guy
2:51:57took him in the house. He had him for a
2:51:59day. The guy was mentally disabled as
2:52:02well. So, we had two things happening at
2:52:04once. We had a kid with autism who just
2:52:07started wandering. And then we had a
2:52:09developmentally delayed adult who was
2:52:11just playing video games with him for 24
2:52:13hours.
2:52:14>> But we ended up the public said there.
2:52:18>> And I remember knocking on the door. He
2:52:19had made little blankets for the kid in
2:52:21there. The kid was playing video games
2:52:22and nothing bad had happened. Right.
2:52:25>> That's the exception.
2:52:26>> I've been to where kids have been
2:52:27dismembered. 10year-olds. That's
2:52:29awesome.
2:52:30>> And from the blood in the house. That's
2:52:32what I'm thinking happened. I'm not
2:52:34saying he just got dismembered in the
2:52:35house.
2:52:36>> But there's enough blood in there
2:52:38>> that we don't think he survived.
2:52:42>> How could you have like possibly
2:52:47say that when you clearly began walking
2:52:52leaving on Monday?
2:52:55>> That's See, that's
2:52:56>> leaving on Monday at 10:00. Yes.
2:52:59>> Right.
2:53:00>> Correct.
2:53:01>> Right.
2:53:03Walking. Okay.
2:53:05>> But he comes back
2:53:06>> walking.
2:53:07>> Correct.
2:53:07>> Okay. Walking.
2:53:08>> Not walking. Well,
2:53:10>> totally fine. On the courage. Walk with
2:53:13like this. Yes. Okay.
2:53:16>> Yeah. But he's back at two.
2:53:18>> Back at two.
2:53:19>> Mhm.
2:53:21>> Okay.
2:53:24Okay. If that's if that's what you say,
2:53:27then I'm just then this whole thing is
2:53:29like even pointless to even say anything
2:53:32because if you're saying it back at two,
2:53:35but then you're also saying something
2:53:37about going legs and here and there and
2:53:40whatever and it's like none of it is
2:53:42even making sense. It doesn't even make
2:53:44sense. So between the two two Petco
2:53:47trips is when he disappeared then I
2:53:50it doesn't make sense to me
2:53:53>> to say
2:53:54>> so let me tell you
2:53:58I've been working for 14 years with a
2:54:00guy named Scott Kimell. He's our
2:54:02informant that went around killing the
2:54:03girls. You remember me telling you about
2:54:05him before?
2:54:06>> Oh yeah.
2:54:07>> When we first started.
2:54:08>> Yeah.
2:54:08>> Not our best day because I have dads out
2:54:11there who still wonder if their
2:54:12daughters are alive.
2:54:13>> Mhm. Scott taught me one thing very
2:54:16well. There's only two people that can
2:54:18tell a story when someone either goes
2:54:20missing because one of one of these
2:54:22girls, Jennifer,
2:54:24>> she's still missing. Like I said, we
2:54:25we're pretty sure she's dead cuz it's
2:54:27been 14 years since anybody's seen her.
2:54:30But Scott told me, John, only two guys,
2:54:33only two people can testify to what me
2:54:36happened between me and Jennifer. And
2:54:38that's me and that's Jennifer. And
2:54:41you're never going to find her.
2:54:42>> He said that to you. He did.
2:54:44>> Wow.
2:54:46>> So, I've got to answer to his dad for
2:54:49the rest of my life. And I'll probably
2:54:50be answering to his dad after I retire
2:54:53because dad has my cell phone. Dad calls
2:54:55me on her birthday on the day she went
2:54:58missing on Father's Day.
2:54:59>> How is he able to say that to you? I
2:55:01guess
2:55:02>> because he's like, there's no other
2:55:04witnesses. So when when I take a guess
2:55:07and that's a guess that he came back
2:55:09home, that's because people that looked
2:55:11on the video said he probably did or you
2:55:13know
2:55:14>> I don't have the information you have.
2:55:16And I hear you do that to Al.
2:55:18>> Mhm.
2:55:18>> By saying, "Oh, so that's what you
2:55:20think." Well, none of us know. You know,
2:55:23>> because I have to be that way. If I
2:55:25don't be that way, then no one's going
2:55:27to help me. I don't I didn't hurt Ganon.
2:55:30I didn't
2:55:31>> That's fine. But right now, you're the
2:55:32only one that was with me. But I didn't
2:55:34hurt Ganon.
2:55:35>> But how are you going to get past these
2:55:38charges without help?
2:55:41>> How does that work when
2:55:42>> Without help?
2:55:43>> Without you telling me like again, it'd
2:55:46be like someone I told you the story
2:55:48about Jennifer. If somebody knew where
2:55:49Jennifer was.
2:55:50>> Uhhuh.
2:55:51>> And they're not telling me or Bob
2:55:52Markhamm the
2:55:53>> I didn't say I knew where Gon was.
2:55:56>> You said you know he's okay.
2:55:57>> No. I said, "As a parent, I'm never
2:56:00going to sit here and say, look at you
2:56:02and say he's not okay. That's not what
2:56:05I'm going to do because I didn't do
2:56:07this. So why would I look at you and say
2:56:09that like I'm dead looking at you in the
2:56:12eye saying I would never as a parent say
2:56:15that? No way could I ever say that
2:56:19because I love Ganon.
2:56:21>> I did not hurt Ganon." Okay,
2:56:24>> I told you where most of these happen.
2:56:26They happen in the house with parents
2:56:27who love their kids.
2:56:28>> I get what you're saying. Okay. I
2:56:30understand. I appreciate what you're
2:56:33saying. I appreciate all the work and
2:56:36time and dedication you put into all of
2:56:38these things to have those statistics,
2:56:41but I am not the one.
2:56:43>> But then if you're not the one,
2:56:44>> the one
2:56:45>> you're you're going. So, do you know
2:56:47what happens from here?
2:56:48>> What?
2:56:48>> You go to a local holding cell. They
2:56:50hold you for 24 hours up to 2 weeks
2:56:54until you get extradited back to
2:56:55Colorado.
2:56:56>> Okay.
2:56:57>> You're in jail, Leticia.
2:57:00And unless you tell me that somebody
2:57:02else did this, you're the only one who
2:57:04did it.
2:57:04>> No, I didn't do it.
2:57:05>> But I'm telling you,
2:57:06>> I bet I didn't. I
2:57:08>> But that's what would be horrible is if
2:57:10someone else did this and you're going
2:57:12to let them skate because you're scared.
2:57:14>> You're not letting someone skate. If
2:57:16>> What could you possibly be scared of at
2:57:17this point? I'm not letting Do you think
2:57:19I would sit here and let someone skate?
2:57:21If I could take you directly to the
2:57:23person right now, why do you think I
2:57:25would need resources?
2:57:27>> You don't need res right now. What you
2:57:29need is that
2:57:31>> if someone took my son
2:57:33>> Yeah.
2:57:34>> and I know who it is. Am I going to go
2:57:37to jail for the rest of my life because
2:57:39someone else took my son?
2:57:40>> No. Absolutely not.
2:57:41>> No. And would I be afraid of my own
2:57:43protection going to jail when I could be
2:57:46free and that person could go to jail?
2:57:49That doesn't make sense.
2:57:50>> She sat there, even if I walked you to
2:57:52the person, she just sat there and said,
2:57:54"Oh, I can't make any promises.
2:57:56>> You can't make promises, but which is
2:57:57better? To go to jail for the rest of
2:57:59your life and and hope that we find the
2:58:02person or to point us to a person? If
2:58:04I'm in your position, it makes no sense,
2:58:06>> right?
2:58:08>> Well, what could you be scared of at
2:58:09this point? reprisals.
2:58:12>> No. Uh the fact that I you don't have
2:58:17clearly you would have found some of
2:58:18this already if you would have had the
2:58:19resources. That's what scares me.
2:58:22>> Found some of what?
2:58:24>> Anything that would have led you to
2:58:25think whatever.
2:58:26>> No, that doesn't make sense. Again,
2:58:30>> sir, it does. Or why'd you say James?
2:58:32John.
2:58:33>> John. John starts with a J. That's fine.
2:58:35I'm not offended.
2:58:37>> Leticia, your story makes no sense. And
2:58:39what it goes back to now is that you
2:58:41can't take responsibility for what
2:58:42happened to Shannon.
2:58:43>> I didn't do anything to gain, sir.
2:58:45>> You can't insert someone else in here
2:58:47unless you're going to tell me who it
2:58:48is.
2:58:48>> Okay. I didn't do anything to gain, sir.
2:58:51>> That's fine. But then you would tell me
2:58:53who it is if you
2:58:55>> didn't do anything to Ganon, sir.
2:58:56>> Did he do it to himself?
2:58:58>> Okay. I didn't do anything.
2:59:00>> I'm not asking you if you did. I'm
2:59:02asking, did Ganon do it to himself?
2:59:05>> Do what to himself?
2:59:07>> The head injury. the neck injury,
2:59:08whatever that was that caused that pool
2:59:11of blood down by the bottom of its bed.
2:59:13>> You know that the sheets and all that
2:59:15stuff, the blood seeps down in
2:59:18>> and what now?
2:59:19>> The blood seeped down that through that
2:59:21corner
2:59:23>> sheets
2:59:23>> through the sheets into the mattress.
2:59:26>> I have no idea what you're even talking
2:59:28about.
2:59:29>> You cleaned it up off the wall.
2:59:31>> So, wait, wait, wait.
2:59:32>> There's you know where the head of his
2:59:35head was. I don't I don't know anything
2:59:37about blood and sheets. Okay. I did not
2:59:39take any sheets and clean up.
2:59:41>> You told out on the phone you cleaned up
2:59:43the wall.
2:59:46>> The room is ready whenever you Okay.
2:59:56Hey teacher, for your request, you're
2:59:58just going to leave that reporter in
2:59:59there and we're going to a room that
3:00:00doesn't report.
3:00:02Are you sure you don't need to go to the
3:00:03restroom? Okay.
3:00:08Bring this in place.
3:00:12Do you need anything to eat?
3:00:15>> Take your water with you just in case,
3:00:17please.
3:00:17>> Okay.
3:00:18>> Okay.
3:00:25Uh, straight.
3:00:27>> Yes.
3:00:42You want some water or anything?
3:00:48>> Bathroom's over here.
3:00:50[Music]
3:01:02you all right?
3:01:07>> So for this look with the district
3:01:09attorneys and stuff for this protection
3:01:11thing with uh Angel
3:01:14we have to know last name
3:01:17all that stuff how you met her. I mean I
3:01:20know you say that app and whatever but
3:01:22how else do we identify Angel? I mean, I
3:01:25probably could just reach out like using
3:01:28Snapchat and stuff like that.
3:01:30>> Can you describe her?
3:01:31>> Yeah.
3:01:32>> What does she look like?
3:01:32>> So, she actually kind of looks a lot
3:01:34like me.
3:01:35>> Yeah.
3:01:36>> Yeah. Like almost like, you know, I said
3:01:38she said she needs to be like
3:01:40>> So, where all have you met her?
3:01:43>> She came to our house. I'm not sure.
3:01:45>> When did she come to your house? Were
3:01:46you saying September?
3:01:48>> Exactly. It was somewhere around
3:01:49September
3:01:51that she sent for us. And then who did
3:01:54who all did she basically said
3:01:56>> for
3:01:59both kids?
3:02:00>> Okay.
3:02:01>> We had a bunch of like we had people
3:02:02whose babysitter in the neighborhood and
3:02:05friends came over and we have another
3:02:07friend that came over Thanksgiving that
3:02:09help babysit. We had quite a few people
3:02:12that would help here and there when it
3:02:14was the main babysitter and she was
3:02:18>> so these messages that are coming
3:02:20through to your phone that you know
3:02:23threats or whatever they are are they
3:02:25coming from her?
3:02:26>> So if we can get on a VPN network or
3:02:30something like that I could probably
3:02:32reach out to Snapchat
3:02:35but I the last Snapchat name that I have
3:02:37her
3:02:38>> What is your Snapchat name? I would need
3:02:40to have my phone.
3:02:42>> But do you remember? Did it have her
3:02:43name in it? Was it a numbers or
3:02:46>> I would just That's why I asked for
3:02:48help, but he's not willing to help. So,
3:02:52>> he's not willing to help.
3:02:57So,
3:03:03>> so to tagging back what we talked about
3:03:05that
3:03:06>> I don't s I just if I'm not going to get
3:03:09any out of this then I would just have
3:03:11to get help otherwise
3:03:14I I trusted you um to talk to you.
3:03:18>> Well, we we went in there.
3:03:20>> I know. And and I don't know, Leticia,
3:03:24if it's just the way you're used to
3:03:25communicating over a long period of
3:03:27time, but
3:03:28>> when when you're asked a question, you
3:03:30don't really answer.
3:03:32>> You kind of go in little circle. So if I
3:03:34said like
3:03:37>> when I said like, "Where did you last
3:03:38begin?" And then you said, "Well, I was
3:03:40supposed to drop off, you know."
3:03:42>> So we're just used to asking you a
3:03:45question and then you tell us an answer.
3:03:46And it's just, you know,
3:03:48>> it's just
3:03:49I just don't I don't I've always like
3:03:53sit and talk and whatever just because
3:03:56that's how I talk.
3:04:01>> So
3:04:05that's just how you've always done for
3:04:07like the last 5 10 years.
3:04:09>> I mean most of the time I mean it's
3:04:11nothing like personal to me anymore.
3:04:15I knew nobody was going to help me. So
3:04:18smooth.
3:04:20>> Like, you know,
3:04:21>> it's going to look bad.
3:04:23>> No, I'm not. That's not what I'm talking
3:04:24about. I'm talking about it's going to
3:04:25look like I was doing these bad things
3:04:28with people like
3:04:29>> No, it's not even going to look like
3:04:31that.
3:04:31>> Yeah.
3:04:33>> Here's what it's going to look like is
3:04:34that you were the last one with Ganon.
3:04:36Nothing on this angel thing we can or we
3:04:38we can't authenticate any of that. When
3:04:41you say it's all off camera, like with
3:04:43the black and Paul in the parking lot,
3:04:45we have cameras for that whole place and
3:04:47we don't see you anything.
3:04:49>> Well, can can you like show me that so
3:04:51that I can show you where? What
3:04:53direction?
3:04:54>> But you would know where it is. Where
3:04:57did you
3:04:57>> I said what direction cuz I'm not like
3:04:59I'm not from Colorado. So, can I show
3:05:01you like on camera that video that
3:05:03you're talking about? What direction?
3:05:05Like where it was at. And maybe you
3:05:06could pull like if you wanted to pull a
3:05:08came off of another place. I mean
3:05:10because there's lots of places you could
3:05:12have pulled a camera off of. That's all
3:05:13I'm asking for.
3:05:17I mean
3:05:18>> that's that's offering help.
3:05:20>> Yeah. It's it's helping
3:05:24goes into this car. I mean this is a
3:05:27person that you trust.
3:05:28>> I do. That's the thing. What am I
3:05:30saying? So then why would you go home
3:05:32and say that he's here that he's now
3:05:35gone away? That he's you're leading.
3:05:37>> I never said he was here now going.
3:05:39>> Well, that you were at he was at the
3:05:40house.
3:05:41>> Okay.
3:05:42>> Yeah, but do you see where I'm going
3:05:44with that? Why why would you make up
3:05:46that story to law enforcement?
3:05:47>> What story?
3:05:49>> That he was going to a friend's house.
3:05:52>> Because if her nephew was a friend.
3:05:56I mean, I don't understand how that's a
3:05:58problem.
3:05:59Angel's nephew was a friend. Oh, that's
3:06:02right. That they had played together.
3:06:04But she was Did she live in your area?
3:06:07>> Yes.
3:06:08>> Where did she live?
3:06:16>> I'm like constantly if stuff will come
3:06:18through and it will be people spinning
3:06:21stuff, saying stuff.
3:06:23>> But the people are they different people
3:06:25from Angel?
3:06:27I mean, are they acting on her behalf?
3:06:28Because that doesn't sound like a friend
3:06:30to me.
3:06:31>> Obviously, if if they're not helping
3:06:33with your child, they're not a friend.
3:06:35But how do you think that makes someone
3:06:36look?
3:06:38You know, trusting people.
3:06:42You see, doesn't that make someone look
3:06:44like they're irresponsible,
3:06:47not trusting people, trusting someone?
3:06:51Okay.
3:06:54>> Do you know who tells the story from
3:06:55here on out? your story.
3:06:58>> I I asked for help.
3:07:00>> But do you know who tells the story? How
3:07:02this works out from here?
3:07:03>> Took you to could have taken you to do a
3:07:08lot of things and you could watch me on
3:07:10my phone do a lot of things.
3:07:13>> If there is an angel, well, just like we
3:07:15found Quincy Brown right away, we can
3:07:17find Angel. But if there's not an angel,
3:07:21that's the last story you're going to
3:07:22tell law enforcement about Ganon.
3:07:25>> Sure. Well, but I mean we'll be able to
3:07:27get we'll get your warrants for that
3:07:28threes thing. Whatever else, we'll go
3:07:30interview this angel and if it's like
3:07:32what I think Quincy Brown is.
3:07:34>> Okay.
3:07:34>> Then Angel's just
3:07:35>> You're not trying to help me.
3:07:37>> I will help you.
3:07:38>> Okay. Well, I tried. I tried to get your
3:07:40help. When I gave you the wrong
3:07:42information, I tried to get your help,
3:07:44but you wouldn't help me.
3:07:45>> But I think I can help you.
3:07:49>> How is that?
3:07:51>> I hope it'll be fine.
3:07:54That's all.
3:07:57Believing.
3:08:00You just did just like they did.
3:08:03>> I'm happy to chase down anything you
3:08:05tell me to.
3:08:05>> I did just like,
3:08:09>> and I can't. He said, "I think that Al
3:08:13left you alone because he's gone to
3:08:15Alaska for so long and then he's on this
3:08:18trip and you're left raising Ganon and
3:08:21something bad happens. I don't know if
3:08:23it's your fault or Gan is it doesn't
3:08:24really matter and you panic and you ask
3:08:27is was I the person talking for yes I
3:08:30was but I think the closest you came was
3:08:34talking about his head injury
3:08:36>> and then because you asked you as heard
3:08:39I would have called
3:08:41>> No if someone took your son you would
3:08:43have called
3:08:44>> I did call
3:08:45>> you did not call the police
3:08:46>> yes I did I called the police
3:08:48>> Petco right when they right when he was
3:08:50taken
3:08:50>> no that's not taken and he was supposed
3:08:52to be playing. I as soon as he wasn't
3:08:55home, I did.
3:08:56>> But you you were supposed to meet her
3:08:58what? The next morning?
3:09:00>> No, I called immediately when at 6:00 at
3:09:03the time he was supposed to be home, I
3:09:05called the police.
3:09:06>> I did.
3:09:07>> And then what did you tell him?
3:09:08>> You already know what I told them.
3:09:10>> Yeah, but that doesn't make it that
3:09:12doesn't make any sense.
3:09:13>> Why, does it? Yes. because you've I told
3:09:16you I have talked to a lot of people
3:09:19that are sitting in the same chair you
3:09:20are right now and I've seen them and and
3:09:24I'm sorry if it offends you if I say
3:09:26sorry story but that's the only way
3:09:28you're coping with this right now
3:09:29>> coping
3:09:30>> yes
3:09:31>> we all cope
3:09:32>> okay I didn't hurt okay
3:09:35>> I'm not saying you did I'm just saying
3:09:36that you're unwilling to come to the the
3:09:39truth
3:09:39>> okay
3:09:40>> because it's going to be painful
3:09:41>> I gave you the truth I didn't hurt
3:09:44that's the truth.
3:09:45>> So the last truth you want to tell me
3:09:47just to make sure.
3:09:47>> Say anything else though
3:09:49>> is the angel.
3:09:50>> I'm not going to say anything else. So
3:09:51because you didn't help me.
3:09:54>> I will help you if you will tell me one
3:09:56concrete way to find Ganon.
3:09:59So
3:09:59>> Okay,
3:10:02>> you're not trying to help me, sir.
3:10:03>> Yes, I am.
3:10:03>> I am not.
3:10:05>> I'm not trying to help.
3:10:07>> You can be a hero here.
3:10:09>> You can.
3:10:10>> I'm far from a hero.
3:10:11>> But you can be a parent. You're a parent
3:10:14who
3:10:14>> hurt a child.
3:10:16>> You're a parent who was left behind to
3:10:18deal with his stepson.
3:10:19>> Yeah. No, it wasn't. It wasn't a
3:10:21problem.
3:10:22>> No, it's a problem when something like
3:10:24something like this happens to
3:10:26>> not a problem to take care of a
3:10:29children.
3:10:30>> Then what happened?
3:10:30>> That's not a problem. That's not a
3:10:33problem at all. Like for you to say that
3:10:35to someone, it's hurtful. That's what's
3:10:38hurtful. It's not a problem to take care
3:10:40of children. It's not a problem to take
3:10:42care of children, but bad things happen
3:10:43in the house all the time.
3:10:45>> In the h? No.
3:10:48>> No. No, sir. Tell me John. No. No.
3:10:54>> Do you want me to walk through where all
3:10:55the blood was or do you know it already?
3:10:57>> Listen, sir. I don't
3:10:59>> I know for a fact that I did not hurt
3:11:02Jan.
3:11:02>> How is your the bottom of your shoe? As
3:11:05long as I
3:11:07can can live with that and know that God
3:11:11knows I did not hurt Ganon,
3:11:13>> then I'm okay with that.
3:11:14>> Well, you can convince yourself of that
3:11:16all day.
3:11:17>> Okay,
3:11:18>> sir. That's not helping me, sir.
3:11:20>> But is there a way for me to help you?
3:11:22Even if you're trying to convince
3:11:23yourself it didn't happen, is there some
3:11:25way for you to say through a third
3:11:27party?
3:11:28>> Okay, sure. Whatever you say.
3:11:33I mean, I don't know what else to tell
3:11:34you, but I did not hurt him.
3:11:38>> Did not.
3:11:39>> Then you won't tell me who did.
3:11:41>> Would not.
3:11:42>> All that blood would not be in the house
3:11:44if Angel just met him at a pet coat.
3:11:46>> That's not You're like That's That's far
3:11:50beyond what you're even talking about.
3:11:53>> What is far beyond?
3:11:54>> There's like many of times we've had
3:11:56blood in our house.
3:11:57>> Do you remember the spray that was on
3:11:59the wall?
3:12:00>> I mean, goodness gracious. I I've seen
3:12:03the markers from the spray. The spray
3:12:05went from the bed all the way up here.
3:12:08>> Well, you had to clean it up.
3:12:10>> Smear.
3:12:11>> No, it's not a smear.
3:12:12>> All right. Whatever.
3:12:13>> It's a spray.
3:12:14>> All right, sir. I don't know what you're
3:12:16talking about. Spray. I don't know what
3:12:17that means.
3:12:18>> It's called spatter.
3:12:19>> I don't I don't I don't know anything
3:12:21about that.
3:12:21>> So, it it comes from aspirated. You're
3:12:24going to hear all this anyway, so I'll
3:12:25show you.
3:12:26>> It comes from aspirated blood.
3:12:28>> Do you know what that means?
3:12:29>> No.
3:12:30It means that he didn't accidentally do
3:12:32it.
3:12:33>> Okay.
3:12:34Okay. Not ever.
3:12:36>> So that's what we were waiting on for
3:12:37the warrants because somebody struck
3:12:40Ganon in the bed.
3:12:42>> In the No.
3:12:44>> If someone if someone struck Ganon in
3:12:46the bed.
3:12:47>> Thank God we're we were all drugged
3:12:50then. If that's what if that's what
3:12:51you're saying happened.
3:12:53>> That's what the blood say.
3:12:53>> Thank God we were all drugged.
3:12:58Well, then can you tell me how that
3:12:59blood got on the wall? That's Ganon's
3:13:01blood on the wall.
3:13:02>> Okay. Well, I guess, sir, if you think
3:13:04you have all the answers, then
3:13:06>> you're making me guess.
3:13:07>> I'm not I'm not
3:13:07>> You've got the answers.
3:13:08>> I'm not making you guess, sir. I just
3:13:10I'm I'm going to be respectful to you
3:13:12cuz you offered to help me. You didn't
3:13:15help me. So, I'm I'm just going to sit
3:13:17here and
3:13:19it doesn't work like it does on TV. Have
3:13:21you ever watched Criminal Minds or
3:13:22Filers? I don't watch any of that stuff
3:13:24cuz I don't do bad things to people.
3:13:27>> No, good people watch those shows.
3:13:29>> I don't but I don't do any of that. I
3:13:30don't do bad things to people.
3:13:32>> All I was going to say is it's not like
3:13:34on TV.
3:13:36>> If someone presents us with evidence,
3:13:39then we just follow the evidence.
3:13:40>> Okay.
3:13:41>> Right now, you're the last person in
3:13:42canon.
3:13:43>> Then I don't do bad things to people. I
3:13:47don't
3:13:48>> I don't think you do bad things to
3:13:49people.
3:13:50>> I don't do bad things to anyone. And I
3:13:52did do anything bad to Ganon.
3:13:54>> I think something bad happened to Ganon.
3:13:56And I don't know of a way to get you to
3:13:58tell me about it. I tried through Al
3:14:01>> to get you to tell me about it. We've
3:14:02tried here.
3:14:03>> Okay.
3:14:04>> You came and I think what I think you
3:14:06have a defense mechanism.
3:14:09And I think your defense mechanism was
3:14:11you need to go into another room. You
3:14:12tell us.
3:14:13>> No, that was not no defense mechanism. I
3:14:17trusted you to talk to you because I
3:14:19thought you
3:14:20>> If you trusted me to talk to me, you
3:14:21would tell me where Ganon is right now.
3:14:24>> I don't know where Ganon is.
3:14:25>> You do? You know where he last was and
3:14:27it wasn't at the back.
3:14:29>> Okay, then you can't make me guess.
3:14:31That's not fair to me.
3:14:33>> Why would I keep you if you're not going
3:14:35to help me?
3:14:36>> You tell me how to help you.
3:14:37>> I already did.
3:14:41>> I already did tell you. I told you how
3:14:44you could help. And
3:14:46>> nobody holds a kid like that.
3:14:48>> Okay. Okay. If that's what you think.
3:14:50>> No, I'm just saying.
3:14:51>> Okay.
3:14:52>> If the sun comes up in the morning, it
3:14:54goes down at night every day. We have
3:14:56worked hundreds of these things.
3:14:58>> That's what you think. Okay.
3:15:01Me talking to you is not going to do
3:15:04anything else because all you're going
3:15:06to do is go think that you're going to
3:15:09get me to say something that I did that
3:15:11I didn't do.
3:15:12>> That is not what I want. If I did not do
3:15:14anything to Ganon,
3:15:17why would I hurt our child? I had
3:15:20everything in the world. Why? Have no
3:15:25motive. None.
3:15:27Don't have the first motive. Everything
3:15:29I wanted in my life, I had it. Why?
3:15:35Doesn't make any sense.
3:15:37>> It doesn't make sense a lot of the time.
3:15:38What happens inside of a house?
3:15:41I sir, I don't even know what you're
3:15:42talking about. I All I can tell you is I
3:15:46did not hurt.
3:15:48I have no reason to. In fact, to go on
3:15:52the record, I had a way better
3:15:53relationship with Ganon than I did with
3:15:55Lena.
3:15:57Way better.
3:16:00Cuz we were so much alike. We We always
3:16:02like the same things. We always have
3:16:05problems with our stomach. We always do
3:16:07all these things.
3:16:08Do you know that there's almost a
3:16:10correlation sometimes between how much
3:16:12you get along with someone and how
3:16:16>> bad things happen in the house? I'm
3:16:18telling you that.
3:16:19>> I don't Well, maybe bad things happen in
3:16:21your house.
3:16:22>> They happen they happen in the house a
3:16:23lot more than they do out in public.
3:16:25>> Maybe bad things happen in your house.
3:16:29Do you would it help if we showed you
3:16:31pictures of what we saw on the wall and
3:16:34by the bed?
3:16:37>> When you say nothing bad happened, you
3:16:40can't get around.
3:16:42>> Yes, Al, but we did not show Al that on
3:16:44purpose. He had to come get stuff out of
3:16:46the house and he looked and saw
3:16:48>> the blood pool was about this big on the
3:16:51concrete.
3:16:52>> Okay. And
3:16:54>> that is not from a little gash like
3:16:55that.
3:16:55>> Okay. And then what? And then you showed
3:16:57this to him or how did he see this?
3:17:00>> He had to come get stuff out of the
3:17:01house. I wasn't even there that day
3:17:03>> after you allowed people to stay in this
3:17:05house for a week.
3:17:06>> I did not allow anybody to do anything.
3:17:08>> Someone did.
3:17:09>> Okay. Well, that's not my fault.
3:17:10>> Okay. So,
3:17:12>> so what I'm saying though is the wounds
3:17:14that you're describing to him even when
3:17:16you're saying it doesn't
3:17:17>> sir I'm going tell you now
3:17:18>> when you say the head thing was Saturday
3:17:21>> what I'm going tell you now is people
3:17:23were inside of a home living and it was
3:17:26not me so maybe maybe you can talk to
3:17:30whoever allowed people to live in the
3:17:34home okay whatever you're saying that
3:17:36was done extra or whatever maybe you can
3:17:40talk to those people who were allowed to
3:17:42stay in a home during this supposedly.
3:17:45Okay,
3:17:47that's what I think. Maybe you can talk
3:17:50to people who were
3:17:52>> You're saying that the injury to I'm not
3:17:55saying anything except I know you're
3:17:58telling me this stuff and you're saying
3:18:00this about oh how bad these were and
3:18:02these things were. All I can tell you is
3:18:04maybe you can talk to the people that
3:18:05were allowed to stay in the home during
3:18:08this time. During this time that you
3:18:10have this supposed evidence, people that
3:18:13were allowed to stay in the home and
3:18:15people that were allowed to walk in and
3:18:16out to see it supposedly. Okay.
3:18:20>> So, Ganon was in all these wounds
3:18:22happened after he went.
3:18:24>> I'm not saying anything other than sir,
3:18:26you are you are telling me you just sat
3:18:29here on record and telling me that
3:18:31Albert went inside somewhere that you
3:18:33were supposed to have as a supposed
3:18:35crime scene.
3:18:36>> I wasn't there for that. If you want, I
3:18:38get an answer for you about who was with
3:18:40him.
3:18:40>> I That's not what I'm asking you. I'm
3:18:42saying for you. You as a professional,
3:18:44you would have allowed that supposedly
3:18:47>> if he has to go get stuff. Yes.
3:18:49>> Okay. Yeah. I'm sure that
3:18:51>> as long as the scene had been processed.
3:18:52>> Okay. Processed. Sure. Okay. I'm sure
3:18:56that's how I'm sure that's how it works
3:18:58in this country. Doesn't it sound a
3:19:00little bit weird to you?
3:19:01>> If the scene has been processed, no. I
3:19:03had a girl that was burned alive in a
3:19:05house in Bailey. seamless process. The
3:19:07seamless process supposedly when people
3:19:10were still there day 1, day 2, day three
3:19:12and the seamless process day four, day
3:19:14five, day six
3:19:16>> and the seamless process.
3:19:18>> You're saying that people going in and
3:19:19out of the house, civilians, while they
3:19:21were processing the scene. I'm I'm
3:19:22asking you that because apparently you
3:19:24you said the scene was processed and
3:19:26then there's you want me to talk to you
3:19:29when I know that how shady that whole
3:19:32situation is and you want me to give you
3:19:34answers for how shady that is.
3:19:38So you need to tell me in the scene that
3:19:40was processed day one, day two, day
3:19:41three, day four, there was nobody going
3:19:42in and out. There was people living
3:19:43there,
3:19:44>> right?
3:19:45>> Okay.
3:19:45>> When they thought Ganon was still alive.
3:19:47>> Okay. Living there. Okay. But you're
3:19:49saying the scene is processed because
3:19:51you, not you, but people surely were
3:19:54there. It's all on camera that there was
3:19:58crime scene people there while people
3:20:00were living there.
3:20:01>> Of course, because they didn't know the
3:20:02severity of the scene. They just thought
3:20:04Genanon was a ran away like you said to
3:20:07go see it.
3:20:08>> So the point is, how am I supposed to
3:20:11put my trust and faith in any bit of the
3:20:13system like that when that was going on?
3:20:17How?
3:20:18>> So, you're trying to put faith in a
3:20:20system where you
3:20:23I'm talking to you. I'm saying
3:20:25>> if you would have told police the very
3:20:27first night that he was taken forcibly,
3:20:30everything would have been different.
3:20:31>> That's not forcibly. Okay. I said
3:20:34exactly what I said, which was he didn't
3:20:36come back at 6:00.
3:20:38>> If you would have said other people have
3:20:39him and they should not have him, it
3:20:42would have been different.
3:20:45You controlled the way that law
3:20:46enforcement responded.
3:20:48>> I did. So now it's my fault that they
3:20:50>> Yes. By saying he's going walking over
3:20:52to play with their friends.
3:20:53>> Had people in there doing this supposed
3:20:56crime scene and now you have all this
3:20:58stuff if you let people live there. And
3:21:00now you want to look at me and say
3:21:02something. Sir, I did not hurt Ganon.
3:21:05Okay.
3:21:06>> Okay. Well, who did?
3:21:07>> Did not.
3:21:08>> Who did?
3:21:08>> Did not. Just like all the other things.
3:21:11>> Why are you telling me you did not? I
3:21:13don't care if you did or not.
3:21:14>> I'm just telling you. Yes, you do care.
3:21:16You're her father. You would care.
3:21:18>> I care about Ganon. I don't care if you
3:21:19did it or not,
3:21:21>> sir. I didn't. Okay.
3:21:23>> But you're saying you did it, but that
3:21:24doesn't help us find you.
3:21:25>> Okay. Well, I didn't do it. I didn't do
3:21:28anything. I would not. No motive. No
3:21:31reason.
3:21:32>> I'm asking you about reason.
3:21:34>> Our child. No reason.
3:21:35>> Who did?
3:21:35>> No reason. No reason.
3:21:37>> Why would you give us stories?
3:21:40>> I'm not, sir. You're not going to help
3:21:42me. You proved you were not going to
3:21:44help me.
3:21:44>> If you give us a story with no leads.
3:21:46>> Okay. Well, you proved you were not
3:21:48going to help me. So, you did.
3:21:51>> What do you want me to do, Latia, before
3:21:53we leave? You tell me what to do and
3:21:55I'll do it.
3:21:59>> And then when I'm wrong, you say, "Oh,
3:22:00so is that it?" So, he came back home at
3:22:022:00 cuz he's not on camera.
3:22:04>> I'm not testing at all.
3:22:05>> You and and you win every turn because
3:22:07you're the only one who knows.
3:22:08>> Win. I don't want to win. This is not
3:22:10about winning, sir. You're the only one
3:22:12who knows.
3:22:12>> This is not about winning.
3:22:14>> But you do win.
3:22:15>> Why? No, I'm not.
3:22:17I'm not winning. I have no motive to
3:22:19hurt our child.
3:22:20>> I'm not saying you do.
3:22:21>> None. None at all.
3:22:23>> But you're the last person we can.
3:22:26If you give me another name, I will
3:22:28chase that person.
3:22:30You've tried You've tried Eduardo in the
3:22:32house. You tried Quincy Brown up in the
3:22:34mountains. Now you've tried Angel.
3:22:36>> I never say anything about the
3:22:38mountains.
3:22:38>> Yes, you did. You were supposed to ride
3:22:40a bike up there in the mountains with
3:22:42Quincy Brown.
3:22:44>> But
3:22:45>> I never told you that.
3:22:47>> You were You said you knew I was in the
3:22:48room.
3:22:50>> I didn't say I knew you. I didn't even
3:22:51know who you were.
3:22:52>> FBI.
3:22:52>> You never know who you were. I said I
3:22:54didn't never say FBI either. That's not
3:22:56what I said.
3:22:57>> Law enforcement.
3:22:58>> No, I said I know someone is listening.
3:22:59>> That's got to be us.
3:23:01>> Okay. No, it could have been anybody.
3:23:03>> That's fine. I don't I don't need to
3:23:05>> Exactly. There's no there's no point of
3:23:07arguing that. You're not going to help
3:23:08me. So
3:23:11>> I think you could control this story by
3:23:13>> I can always control it, sir.
3:23:15>> Well, you you are concerned about what
3:23:17other people think.
3:23:18>> I've been completely respectful to you
3:23:21and I have talked to you. I've been
3:23:23respectful to you, been kind to you.
3:23:27I did all those things to you cuz I was
3:23:29just that's who I am. That's how I was
3:23:31raised wasn't raised to be bad people. I
3:23:34don't think you're a bad person,
3:23:36>> but I think bad things happen all the
3:23:38time. I've seen them.
3:23:39>> Why bad things have to happen?
3:23:41>> Because an 11-year-old boy is not home
3:23:43and he's not hanging out with somebody.
3:23:45>> Okay, sir. Okay.
3:23:48I'm glad that you think something so bad
3:23:51happens all the time. I'm sorry that you
3:23:53have to have this uh shield up of
3:23:56nothing but no compassion and all that.
3:24:00I'm sorry for that. I really am.
3:24:03But I I have no reason no reason
3:24:08none
3:24:10to hurt anyone in my family. None. None.
3:24:14>> Can you tell me why there's blood on the
3:24:16bottom of your shoes?
3:24:18>> What shoes?
3:24:19>> The shoes they were covered in the
3:24:21garage.
3:24:22>> In the garage or in the top of the
3:24:24washer or something?
3:24:27>> People were Did you think I didn't walk
3:24:28around in shoes
3:24:30>> with Ganon's blood on the bottom? What
3:24:32has that got to do with anything?
3:24:34>> I've already get told you we were
3:24:36outside unloading stuff. What has that
3:24:39got to do with anything? We outside
3:24:41unloading my car.
3:24:43I mean, come on. That doesn't that
3:24:46doesn't mean somebody's this bad person
3:24:48and done something wrong. That doesn't
3:24:50mean that, sir, at all.
3:24:54Nothing like that.
3:24:57to hurt Dan. Innocent, loving.
3:25:01Help me out more than any person in the
3:25:03household.
3:25:06More than Albert.
3:25:08More than anyone. Help me.
3:25:11>> I'm not saying Ganon's a bad kid.
3:25:12>> No. Help me. Do you know how much he'd
3:25:15be helping me with everything? Pulling
3:25:17everybody else's slack. Who did it?
3:25:19Ganon.
3:25:20>> Yeah. And I think that's why this is so
3:25:22hard.
3:25:24>> You're right. It's hard. Right.
3:25:28It's hard because I didn't hurt him.
3:25:31That's why it's hard.
3:25:34So to not have him helping me, that is
3:25:36hard, too.
3:25:38Very hard.
3:25:40Knowing that right now, sitting at home,
3:25:44Janet knowing the situation, you know
3:25:46what Gonet would do? He would wait on me
3:25:49anything I would ask him just to make
3:25:51sure I was okay.
3:25:54>> Anything?
3:25:54>> I wouldn't doubt that. Oh, he would
3:25:57before even Albert would even do it. He
3:25:59would
3:26:03if he was sitting here right now and
3:26:06needed anything from need to ask him to
3:26:08do anything, he would do it.
3:26:13So there's no there's no intention,
3:26:16motive, reasoning, nothing for him.
3:26:20Nothing to hurt him in any kind of way.
3:26:22None. Not at us. Now, you did say on the
3:26:24phone calls there was no premeditation
3:26:26involved.
3:26:29>> You said
3:26:29>> I I mean I was saying to Albert like he
3:26:32was if you're talking about when Albert
3:26:34was asking me that I was simply saying
3:26:36cuz you were trying to get him or
3:26:37whoever was trying to get him to walk me
3:26:39down some pathway of whatever it may be,
3:26:43whatever that may be. Come on, sir. I
3:26:46don't I didn't wake up and be like, "Oh,
3:26:49my life changed today." That's not how
3:26:51it works in life. Bad people, whether
3:26:54you say do this or do that or do that or
3:26:58do this, they just do bad things to
3:27:01people.
3:27:01>> That's not necessarily true.
3:27:02>> Okay. Well,
3:27:03>> I told you good people do bad things.
3:27:06I've seen it.
3:27:07>> Are you a good person?
3:27:08>> Yes.
3:27:08>> And you do bad things.
3:27:09>> Mhm.
3:27:10>> Okay.
3:27:11>> Yeah.
3:27:12>> But you,
3:27:15if you had any key to telling us or
3:27:17Ganon is, you would tell it to us if you
3:27:20were a good person. Would you not?
3:27:26>> And so you're matter but that's been you
3:27:29look at the totality of all of what
3:27:31you've told social media. All of what
3:27:32you told Al.
3:27:33>> First of all, it's all about social
3:27:34media had nothing to even do with me
3:27:37half the time. Only the person I ever
3:27:39talked to was the crime online lady.
3:27:42That's the people that I talked to.
3:27:45Social media was like a crap show.
3:27:47>> Yeah, but you've got on under other
3:27:49names. No, I've had people sitting
3:27:51beside me, people who were near me,
3:27:55people that were my are my friends and
3:27:59family trying to defend me. Okay. But I
3:28:02have completely completely been trying
3:28:05not to have another miscarriage, trying
3:28:10not to.
3:28:12So, no. Yeah, people wanted to help me,
3:28:16but it's not about social media people
3:28:19telling stuff. Yeah, someone say
3:28:21something on social media. Yeah, I went
3:28:23and looked up. People started saying
3:28:24stuff about this or that. Yeah, I went
3:28:27and looked it up cuz I wanted to know
3:28:28what they were talking about or the
3:28:30questions that they were saying or or or
3:28:32information or all these things. Yes.
3:28:35>> Your your argument isn't going to work,
3:28:37>> arguing about what?
3:28:38>> Your argument that somebody took him.
3:28:41You're not going to be able to tell that
3:28:42story. Okay.
3:28:44>> If you help us today,
3:28:46>> find out where Ganon is. If you could,
3:28:47cuz I'm I have 100% confidence that you
3:28:50can tell me exactly where you last left
3:28:53Ganon.
3:28:54>> Okay. Now, you're accusing me.
3:28:56>> I'm just telling you what the research
3:28:58shows, what our investigation shows.
3:29:01>> Have research.
3:29:03So,
3:29:04>> you research look good. It will look
3:29:07much better than you.
3:29:08>> I didn't do anything. So, what do you
3:29:10want me to look better at? I didn't do
3:29:12anything.
3:29:12>> Are you going to tell me right now that
3:29:14the last place you saw Ganon was really
3:29:16him getting into?
3:29:17>> Sir, I'm not going to say anything
3:29:20because you're not trying to help me.
3:29:23>> Finding Ganon would help you.
3:29:25>> Oh, yeah. I know. Don't you think that?
3:29:27>> Then tell me.
3:29:28>> Don't you think that? Don't you
3:29:31>> I know it.
3:29:31>> Really? Don't think that.
3:29:32>> So, tell me where he is and let me help
3:29:34you.
3:29:34>> I don't know where he is.
3:29:38>> Where did you last see him?
3:29:40>> I'm not sir. I'm not. You proved that
3:29:43you were not going to help me. Okay, you
3:29:45did.
3:29:47You proved you were not going to help
3:29:48me.
3:29:48>> If you tell me where you last I last saw
3:29:50him, I can help you.
3:29:54>> I promise you that, Leticia.
3:29:56>> I don't get it. I don't get it. Didn't
3:29:57hurt Ganon.
3:29:59I mean, I don't know how to like write
3:30:01that out, say it in 10 different
3:30:03languages.
3:30:04>> So So what do you want me to say? You
3:30:05didn't hurt Ganon. Did you kill Ganon?
3:30:07>> No.
3:30:09>> No. Did you put Ganon somewhere?
3:30:11>> No,
3:30:13>> you didn't put him in a dumpster.
3:30:14>> Oh my god. Dumpster? Why are you even
3:30:17saying these bad, horrible things?
3:30:19>> Because we've been tracking your car.
3:30:21We've been tracking Even when your phone
3:30:23is off, it can be tracked.
3:30:24>> Good, sir. I'm glad.
3:30:26>> And so we we've been going through
3:30:28dumpsters all through.
3:30:30>> Is Ganon in a dumpster?
3:30:32>> Sir, you can go through whatever you
3:30:35want.
3:30:35>> That would save us,
3:30:37>> sir.
3:30:37>> That would save us hundreds of days.
3:30:39Just tell me if he's in a dumpster to be
3:30:41in. Okay,
3:30:42>> that's fine. But will you tell me if
3:30:44he's in a dumpster?
3:30:45>> I if I didn't do anything to him, how am
3:30:48I answering that question for you?
3:30:49>> Whether it's Angel or whoever,
3:30:51>> how am I answering this question for
3:30:52you? Really? You said to a parent and
3:30:55asked them that
3:30:58>> because because we want to find him. I
3:31:00would not ask you that question.
3:31:02>> I did if it wouldn't help us find
3:31:03>> anything.
3:31:05Nothing.
3:31:07Okay.
3:31:08didn't hurt, harm, kill, nothing to
3:31:12gain.
3:31:14Did not, would not.
3:31:16>> Where's the last place you saw him?
3:31:17>> Sir, you've already asked me all these
3:31:19questions.
3:31:20>> I know, but that's an easy question. The
3:31:22last place you saw Ganon, which can
3:31:23really help us find him,
3:31:26>> why would you not say that if you had
3:31:27nothing to do?
3:31:28>> Because I've already tried to help you.
3:31:29>> No, but if you had nothing to do, if you
3:31:31did not hurt, harm anything, why would
3:31:35you not tell me the last place you saw
3:31:36him?
3:31:37>> Okay. Because it's a memory you don't
3:31:38want to look at.
3:31:39>> Memory?
3:31:40>> Yes.
3:31:40>> I would think it's a memory.
3:31:42>> Okay.
3:31:43>> Ganon's been missing now for how many
3:31:44days? You know when you last saw him,
3:31:46but you won't tell the one agency that
3:31:48can find him.
3:31:50>> You already said you already basically
3:31:54lost my whole ability.
3:31:55>> That's not a true story. That's worse
3:31:56than Quincy Brown.
3:31:57>> All right. Okay.
3:31:58>> What about the pregnant lady with the
3:31:59money in her stomach? Yes, sir. Okay.
3:32:02Leticia,
3:32:03>> tell me the last place you saw him and
3:32:05we can find Ganon
3:32:07>> and you can that will help you so much
3:32:10in this case.
3:32:10>> Totally.
3:32:11>> Yes, it will.
3:32:12>> Okay.
3:32:13>> What do you think is going to help you
3:32:14now? If I walk out of here and we
3:32:16haven't got a lead on how to find Ganon.
3:32:19>> Okay. Well,
3:32:20>> all you've got is the story of the stuff
3:32:22on the wall. You've got the blood. You
3:32:24got blood all over the house. You got
3:32:26blood on the bottom of your shoes. Okay.
3:32:28>> And you've got about seven lies.
3:32:30>> Okay. If you help us find Ganon, that
3:32:32will help you tremendously.
3:32:35And yet you won't tell me.
3:32:37>> Why?
3:32:39>> Since you're not going to help me.
3:32:40>> Yes, I will. I've just told you that.
3:32:43>> You're not going to help me, sir.
3:32:45>> Where's the last place you saw me?
3:32:47>> They're not going to help you.
3:32:48>> Yes, I will. You tell me the last place
3:32:49you saw.
3:32:50>> Why do I have to like keep like
3:32:51repeating the same thing?
3:32:53>> Because it doesn't make any sense,
3:32:54>> sir. If you if you're basing it on what
3:32:57you think makes sense, then that's
3:32:59that's what you're judging it on. So, if
3:33:00that's what you think, then you can
3:33:02judge it on that. If you're want to base
3:33:04it on something that you said you've
3:33:06seen and found in some house, okay? And
3:33:09you allowed or I say you, let me correct
3:33:11it for you, people to live there, okay?
3:33:15>> Then that's what you guys can go on.
3:33:18Okay?
3:33:19I did not hurt, endanger, kill, do
3:33:23anything wrong to Ganon. I did not. And
3:33:27until you can
3:33:28>> Well, we're dealing with semantics here.
3:33:30>> Okay. Until you can take that approach
3:33:33and say maybe I need to have a little
3:33:36bit of compassion here, like really a
3:33:39lot. Not just for other people, but for
3:33:43someone who has no reason whatsoever to
3:33:46hurting, no motive, has everything she
3:33:50wanted in life. Why
3:33:52wouldn't it make more sense to just like
3:33:54if it was such a bad thing to be honest
3:33:57with you, wouldn't it make more sense
3:33:58for me just to like get in my car and
3:34:00like
3:34:02I mean go live somewhere else? Like that
3:34:06makes more sense, right?
3:34:08>> Make a lot more sense. make a lot more
3:34:09sense. I could tell you about eight or
3:34:1110 stories that would make a lot more
3:34:12sense. And yet that's why we're sitting
3:34:14here today.
3:34:16>> Well,
3:34:17>> you know, people that have a lot to lose
3:34:19do bad things all the time.
3:34:20>> Well, guess what? I didn't do anything
3:34:23bad.
3:34:24>> Well, then why won't you tell me what
3:34:25the last time you saw Gainer? If you did
3:34:28it, Leticia, it makes no sense. And it
3:34:31doesn't have to make sense to me. It has
3:34:32to make sense to a jury that you're
3:34:33going to be sitting in front of in about
3:34:35a year or two.
3:34:36>> Okay. Do you really want to go there
3:34:38without helping yourself?
3:34:41>> Do you want to go there and have us
3:34:42stand up and say, "Oh, it's Angel. It's
3:34:44Quincy Brown. It's all these people that
3:34:46don't exist."
3:34:47>> Well, at this point,
3:34:52someone that I can trust will be the
3:34:54person that can help me. That's what
3:34:56it's going to be.
3:34:57>> But are you going to tell them angel?
3:34:59Cuz if you do, it's just going to be it
3:35:02better be a new story.
3:35:03>> Okay, sir. That's fine. Whatever you
3:35:05say, because you already have what you
3:35:08want is your answer. You already have
3:35:10because you told me.
3:35:11>> Yeah.
3:35:11>> Okay.
3:35:12>> And if this happened to Harley, you
3:35:13would be insanely
3:35:14>> Why does it got to be about Harley?
3:35:16>> Because she's your daughter. If someone
3:35:18else had Harley,
3:35:19>> So basically, you're trying to say that
3:35:20it didn't matter that Daniel was also my
3:35:23>> I'm saying someone that you know right
3:35:24now who's been with you for the last 40
3:35:27days or however long it's been.
3:35:29>> If she just disappeared and someone knew
3:35:31where she was, what would she do? And
3:35:34they wouldn't tell you where Harley was
3:35:38>> and they say, "No, I I just can't tell
3:35:39you because I'm scared.
3:35:42>> I just told you I don't know where he
3:35:44is." But that's that's the thing that
3:35:47won't be that is the problem is I don't
3:35:49know.
3:35:50>> If this were the real story, Leticia,
3:35:52you would have told us this a long time
3:35:53ago.
3:35:54>> Okay. Now, it's not the real story.
3:35:55>> It's not.
3:35:56>> Okay, sir.
3:35:57>> How is this a real story that you give
3:35:59him to someone who you trust as a
3:36:01babysitter and then you're too scared?
3:36:03So, you tell the cops a different story.
3:36:05I like out of all your stories, I like
3:36:06Quincy Brown better.
3:36:07>> Yeah, sure.
3:36:08>> I did.
3:36:10>> This is a hard thing to do,
3:36:14but if you point us and you help us find
3:36:17Ken,
3:36:17>> I don't.
3:36:18>> You can.
3:36:19>> No, I don't. I don't have a way to help
3:36:21you. I don't.
3:36:24>> How is that possible?
3:36:30Leticia, I'm not.
3:36:34You think I'm judging you and I'm not.
3:36:37You are our only fact teller right now.
3:36:42>> And I can't chase down what you're
3:36:44telling me.
3:36:44>> Okay.
3:36:49>> Okay.
3:36:49>> Let me go ask the VA if there's anything
3:36:51else cuz
3:36:54I'm not asking you the right way, the
3:36:56right questions. And if I'm treating you
3:36:58badly, I'm sorry. That's not my intent.
3:37:00>> Say you weren't treating me badly at
3:37:02all.
3:37:03>> My intent is to find a way for us to
3:37:05communicate so you will feel comfortable
3:37:08enough to tell me what happened.
3:37:10>> His injuries, something.
3:37:13>> Well, you've told so many different
3:37:14stories about his injuries.
3:37:16>> That's all I'm going to keep telling you
3:37:17is I did not hurt you.
3:37:20>> I'm not saying you did. Like even if the
3:37:22bed is the bed story true,
3:37:23>> I'm not Well, why even say anything?
3:37:25Because everything I say, you're going
3:37:27to tell me that, oh, blah, blah, blah.
3:37:29Cuz you want it just like everyone else
3:37:33want it to be me. So that way, I don't
3:37:36care if it's all can just go ahead and
3:37:38be the hero and all these things.
3:37:41>> I do not get paid one extra dime if it's
3:37:44you.
3:37:45>> I don't get I don't get paid anything
3:37:47else to find Ganon. It's just our plan.
3:37:50>> Stop me.
3:37:51>> That's fine. Then tell me how to get
3:37:52there.
3:37:53>> Not the one. Hey, I am not the one. Not
3:37:58the one.
3:38:00>> Do you know why I asked you ahead of
3:38:02time if you're having anxiety or
3:38:04depression or stuff like that?
3:38:06>> It don't matter what you ask me about
3:38:08anxiety or depression or you know any of
3:38:11those things because to be honest with
3:38:14you that's it. That's all.
3:38:19>> So have you been you said Ganon's been
3:38:21seeing counselors. Have you been seeing
3:38:22counselors?
3:38:23right about teaching one time and maybe
3:38:27she did it too cuz she was going to give
3:38:28the emotion a support animal.
3:38:31>> That's it.
3:38:32>> Yeah, it was the two times on base and
3:38:36we talked about not wanting to be in
3:38:39teaching anymore and all that route.
3:38:42Stress on the job. That was what we
3:38:44talked about.
3:38:45>> You had searched a little bit on the
3:38:46suicide stuff.
3:38:47>> What suicide stuff? Or was that you or
3:38:51was that just random key strokes?
3:38:57>> Suicide.
3:39:01>> I don't even like I don't even like
3:39:02>> Have you ever thought about suicide or
3:39:05>> who
3:39:05>> you
3:39:06>> I'm not thinking about suicide.
3:39:08>> I'm just asking
3:39:10what's a suicidal person might say.
3:39:12That's what I was looking for.
3:39:14>> Yeah. because I have someone in my
3:39:15family before that I that have said that
3:39:17to me and I've looked up information.
3:39:19>> But that's not you. Okay.
3:39:22>> Wow.
3:39:25>> How do you
3:39:25>> People have things in their family go on
3:39:27too, you know, that you maybe want to
3:39:29look up and be like, "Oh, this is going
3:39:32on in their life. I wonder how they're
3:39:33dealing with this."
3:39:38[Music]
3:39:40You need some heat?
3:39:43>> No. Can I make a phone call?
3:39:47[Music]
3:39:54[Music]
3:40:03>> Any restroom or anything?
3:40:07>> I just wanted to call to see that Harley
3:40:09got home.
3:40:10She did.
3:40:12>> Yeah. They talked with Harley. They've
3:40:14talked with Dee. They've talked with
3:40:16Laura. There were search warrants at
3:40:19Laura's house. Dei's house. Your van.
3:40:23I think that's it. So, yeah, they they
3:40:25got Harley back.
3:40:33>> Harley De.
3:40:35>> Yeah. Yeah, cuz I told him that you you
3:40:36know I met you out at the car and you
3:40:38said you'd like De to be the guardian in
3:40:40between times or whatever.
3:40:42>> Okay. Well, um
3:40:45why why are you switching to their
3:40:46house? I mean
3:40:48>> because you'd stayed there.
3:40:49>> I mean I'm saying like they're not in
3:40:51trouble.
3:40:52>> No,
3:40:52>> neither Lauren nor you're in trouble.
3:41:00Am
3:41:06I asking you stuff the wrong way to
3:41:08teach you?
3:41:08>> Sir, no.
3:41:10>> I do want to help and and whether you
3:41:13did this or not, it doesn't matter to
3:41:15me. All the reason they asked me is to
3:41:17come help find what happened again.
3:41:21And if I can't get past, you know, if I
3:41:24can't prove a story, whether you tell it
3:41:26to me, Al tells it to me, whether it's
3:41:28El Paso Sheriff's Office, again, I I
3:41:30don't take anything true until I can
3:41:33prove it.
3:41:38With all the evidence that they have,
3:41:40the reason why it took so long is the
3:41:42district attorney wanted to wait and
3:41:44wait and wait till they made sure they
3:41:46could win in the courtroom.
3:41:48>> Okay? And I've done nobody homicides
3:41:52before. They have more on this case than
3:41:54we do on most cases.
3:41:56>> Okay, sir.
3:41:57>> I don't want you to be the way you can
3:42:00help yourself out of this thing is to
3:42:03give us something. Even though it's very
3:42:06>> You just said you have what you need. So
3:42:08why why do you need to keep asking me?
3:42:10>> Because you were the last one with you
3:42:12know.
3:42:13>> But if you have what you need, why do
3:42:14you keep asking me?
3:42:15>> Because our goal is to find Ganon. Our
3:42:17goal is not to prosecute you. That is
3:42:20the district attorney's job. We're
3:42:21investigators.
3:42:23And like you like you've just seen, I do
3:42:25a poor job about half the time because I
3:42:27have to guess because as much as we
3:42:29tried to track you with your cars and
3:42:32your phones and whatever else, there are
3:42:34gaps.
3:42:36We do have, like I told you, the blood
3:42:38in the house. We do have the blood on We
3:42:41have Do you know about the board that
3:42:44was thrown in the forest?
3:42:49Leticia. Huh?
3:42:52What?
3:42:53>> I'm sorry, sir. What? It's okay.
3:42:54>> The board that has Gandy's blood on it
3:42:56that was thrown in the forest.
3:42:58>> Okay. So, I I All right. So, what?
3:43:00>> Got your DNA on it.
3:43:01>> Okay.
3:43:02>> But then how do you explain stuff like
3:43:04that and then turn around and say, but
3:43:06but then turn around and say, I don't
3:43:08know.
3:43:08>> I lived in the house with Ganon. I was
3:43:12Ganon's main caretaker.
3:43:15I wouldn't be surprised
3:43:17if everything I done didn't involve
3:43:19Ganon. Like, oh, okay. Well, you brushed
3:43:22his hair. Oh, okay. Y'all can brush your
3:43:24teeth. Whatever.
3:43:27>> But that that board was from the house
3:43:30and then it's up all by Highway 105.
3:43:32>> Board from the house. I've already
3:43:34explained to you about any kind of stuff
3:43:35that would have been from the foot. I've
3:43:38already told you that. And I don't know
3:43:39what you
3:43:41>> But didn't go throw it up there.
3:43:42>> Throw. Okay. So now someone threw it up
3:43:44there. So So now someone threw it
3:43:47>> or dropped or whatever.
3:43:48>> How did that board get up there?
3:43:50>> Sir, now you're going on about
3:43:53>> Leticia. I'm
3:43:54>> And Albert already called about this
3:43:55board cuz you were there, right?
3:43:57>> Yes.
3:43:58>> And the sock and all this stuff, right?
3:44:00>> The sock had nothing to do with it.
3:44:02>> Okay. But yeah, he said a sock.
3:44:03>> But he did say a sock, right? But the
3:44:05board is true,
3:44:07>> sir.
3:44:08>> The board was right where your tigan
3:44:09was,
3:44:10>> sir. Tiguan. Yeah.
3:44:13>> Oh my gosh.
3:44:14>> Yeah, cuz we tracked it.
3:44:16>> I look, you could have gotten all that
3:44:17from me easily. All you do is log into
3:44:19the app. It's not a difficult thing.
3:44:22Like,
3:44:22>> right, but if you track from where your
3:44:24tig and you look at where that
3:44:26>> Tan now, okay, so this is why it's so
3:44:30like
3:44:32backwards. So now my TIG lawn, but I was
3:44:36driving the truck and then now my TIG
3:44:38lawn and now I mean next and you tried
3:44:40on the rental car but then
3:44:43>> No, you had three different cars.
3:44:44>> I was approved on the rental car and I
3:44:46didn't even get to drive it. So I
3:44:48>> Right. There's low mileage on it.
3:44:50>> But we don't know where you went cuz you
3:44:52had your phone off.
3:44:53>> My phone off? I had my watch on?
3:44:55>> Yeah, but you had your phone.
3:44:56>> But the but the watch
3:44:57>> But the watch is up in the forest
3:44:59somewhere, isn't it?
3:45:00>> No, the watch ain't in the forest. You
3:45:01guys have my watch. which is at El Paso
3:45:03Detention Center.
3:45:06>> That's the watch there. I thought you
3:45:07had an eye watch.
3:45:08>> That is That's where the watch was at.
3:45:11>> Okay. Well, I haven't heard anything
3:45:13about
3:45:14>> From Find My Watch says it's clearly
3:45:16sitting in El Paso County.
3:45:17>> Okay.
3:45:19But your phone was off those couple of
3:45:21days.
3:45:21>> What couple of days?
3:45:23>> The 27th.
3:45:25It was off when you were at between the
3:45:28Petco.
3:45:30>> But I had my watch on.
3:45:32Right. But what I'm saying the
3:45:34>> watch tells you where you go. I mean
3:45:36it's it's mirrored.
3:45:38>> Yeah. But I'm telling you we have holes
3:45:41in our investigation and you can help us
3:45:44with that.
3:45:45>> Sorry.
3:45:49I didn't even drive our car anywhere
3:45:52really other than
3:45:54just going to be friends.
3:45:56>> You drove a tick on it.
3:45:57>> Yeah. Other than to be friends. Yes.
3:45:59>> So who who are you meeting up there?
3:46:01their friends. That can be a lead we can
3:46:04help find Ganon with.
3:46:06>> You You guys already know all my
3:46:07friends. So maybe
3:46:08>> No, we don't know those up there.
3:46:10>> That should be the ones that you you
3:46:11really know.
3:46:12>> We don't know the ones up there. I
3:46:13guarantee you.
3:46:14>> And like the guy said, "Oh, tire
3:46:17pressure and all this, then you would
3:46:18have saw where if I stopped anywhere or
3:46:20done whatever."
3:46:22>> Come on now.
3:46:23>> Why can't you tell me though? Instead of
3:46:25>> You want me to give you like I've
3:46:27already had to tell you everything
3:46:29personal about your life. You have
3:46:30everything personal.
3:46:31>> I don't have where you what friends you
3:46:33saw up there on 105 where that board is.
3:46:37>> But look, I'm not going to admit to any
3:46:38kind of board.
3:46:39>> I'm not saying you need to. I'm just
3:46:41saying tell me who your friends are up
3:46:42there and we can go talk to you.
3:46:43>> And my TIG wine wasn't even driven that
3:46:46way until
3:46:46>> Okay. So maybe it was the I don't
3:46:48>> later.
3:46:50>> How much later?
3:46:51>> I don't even know before before they
3:46:54took it.
3:46:55>> Okay. So was the truck up there?
3:46:57>> Truck up where? off that 105 area.
3:47:02>> I was going to Castle Rock. I've already
3:47:04said this.
3:47:06>> I was going to cast already said this.
3:47:08>> But is that where the board was? It was
3:47:11in the back.
3:47:11>> Sure. I don't know where the board was
3:47:12at because I don't know. I really don't
3:47:14know. That's like you're asking me a
3:47:16question that I really don't know.
3:47:18>> So we But we have a board up there where
3:47:20you were driving.
3:47:20>> Okay.
3:47:21>> With Ganon's blood on it,
3:47:22>> with your DNA on it.
3:47:24>> Okay. So
3:47:24>> So my DNA, which would be what?
3:47:27>> Skin cells. Okay. My skin cells, which I
3:47:29lived in a home, if that's what you're
3:47:31telling me.
3:47:31>> Yeah.
3:47:32>> And I've already told you that there was
3:47:35all this wood in the garage.
3:47:38>> Yeah. But you never told me that you
3:47:40took a piece out of the truck and flung
3:47:41it up there.
3:47:43>> What?
3:47:43>> Or put it or flung it. And And again,
3:47:45Leticia, I think you get mad when I I
3:47:47say a verb or something where whether
3:47:50you placed it, flung it, dropped it,
3:47:52>> hit it. I don't know. But all I know is
3:47:55that our FBI evidence response team
3:47:58recovered it.
3:47:59>> Okay.
3:48:01Did you check everybody else in the
3:48:02house
3:48:03>> as far as for their DNA?
3:48:05>> No, not the DNA to see if they put it
3:48:06there. Cuz you remember these are the
3:48:08people that were in the house when I
3:48:10wasn't allowed when I wasn't there. Did
3:48:12you check all them?
3:48:14>> The people in the house?
3:48:15>> Yeah. Did you check the people in the
3:48:16house? And
3:48:17>> you mean the crime scene people? No, I'm
3:48:19meaning the people that you I'm sorry to
3:48:21phrase that because you don't like you
3:48:23that that was allowed to stay there when
3:48:25all this stuff you're talking about
3:48:27would have been there. Okay.
3:48:29>> Correct.
3:48:30>> Did you check all these people
3:48:31>> as far as their DNA?
3:48:33>> No. Did Did you check to see if any of
3:48:35them did this?
3:48:36>> Drove and threw that wood up there.
3:48:38>> Did you check them?
3:48:40>> Their GPS, their phone.
3:48:42>> No, no, no, no, no. Did Did you check
3:48:44them? Because that is completely doesn't
3:48:46matter. You mean something? You check
3:48:48Veronica's GPS in her phone?
3:48:51>> I did. Huh?
3:48:54>> Veronica was not the last person with G.
3:48:56>> Okay. But you're you're talking about a
3:48:57piece of wood, sir.
3:48:58>> Mhm.
3:48:58>> Okay. So, whatever you First it was
3:49:01wood, stocks, now it's wood. I don't
3:49:02know.
3:49:03>> I didn't say socks.
3:49:05>> Okay. You had Albert's hand.
3:49:06>> I didn't have your hand.
3:49:07>> Okay. The point is, did you check
3:49:10Veronica's? Did you check Brandon's? Did
3:49:13you check any of them to see that they
3:49:15went anywhere? Because I clearly have
3:49:17stated that they want.
3:49:19>> But why would we need to check that if
3:49:20your car is up there?
3:49:21>> But I clearly stated because then maybe
3:49:24they did it.
3:49:24>> Maybe they went the same place you did.
3:49:26Did you tell them to go up there?
3:49:28>> Listen, everybody knew where I went cuz
3:49:29I told everybody from day one.
3:49:33>> You told everybody.
3:49:34>> Yes, I sure did. This lady right here,
3:49:36Miss Bethl, she asked me and I strictly
3:49:39told her what exit I went off of. Sure
3:49:42did.
3:49:43Maybe I might have didn't have like the
3:49:45that I I gave the name. Like I wasn't
3:49:48exactly right with the exit because I
3:49:50don't really know Colorado that well,
3:49:53but I gave it.
3:49:54>> Do you know why I told you about that? I
3:49:56normally don't do this. Tell everybody
3:49:58all the evidence against them.
3:50:01Why do you think?
3:50:02>> I don't know.
3:50:04>> Because I think if you're to weigh this
3:50:06on there's enough probable cause. A
3:50:09judge in Colorado Springs in El Paso has
3:50:11signed a probable cause warrant for
3:50:13first-degree murder.
3:50:14>> Okay?
3:50:15>> And all this evidence and I'm telling
3:50:17you about the ones that I know about and
3:50:19that's before you do, you know, all the
3:50:23phone stuff, etc., etc., and then versus
3:50:26you taking a chance that you're going to
3:50:28get off. It's
3:50:29>> I'm not taking a chance for nothing
3:50:30because I didn't do anything, sir. Okay,
3:50:33sir.
3:50:34>> If you say it's if you say you didn't do
3:50:36anything, do you know what an innocent
3:50:37person would do? I have had plenty of
3:50:39innocent people sitting in your chair.
3:50:41You know what an innocent person would
3:50:42do? They would be freaking out.
3:50:45>> I know
3:50:45>> you are not freaking out.
3:50:46>> Yeah, right. You think I haven't freaked
3:50:48out?
3:50:48>> I heard you freak out on the phone one
3:50:50time.
3:50:50>> You think I haven't freaked out for
3:50:51days? You can't judge the way I've
3:50:53freaked something out one way and
3:50:54another way.
3:50:55>> I have had the wrong person in a room
3:50:57like this before. And trust me, if they
3:51:00had any idea who did it,
3:51:02>> they would tell me.
3:51:04>> Well,
3:51:04>> that makes no sense. And no jury will
3:51:06buy. No jury's going to buy,
3:51:08>> okay,
3:51:09>> that you you sit here with an answer
3:51:10that somebody else took Ganon
3:51:13>> that all this head wound and all this
3:51:15>> all this stuff happened in there. Do you
3:51:17think I don't know what I'm talking
3:51:18about?
3:51:18>> Sir, I never question anything.
3:51:20>> Well, you must because you're taking a
3:51:22huge chance, Leticia,
3:51:23>> sir, I'm not taking any chance.
3:51:25>> How are you not taking
3:51:26>> because I know the mans knows I did not
3:51:29do anything to get it.
3:51:30>> Well, he's not going to be on the jury.
3:51:32>> Okay. All right. We're not going to go
3:51:34there with that.
3:51:36We're not going to go to
3:51:36>> We're going to sensible people who we're
3:51:39going to present evidence in front of.
3:51:40>> Let me tell you what, there's a higher
3:51:42power. A higher power
3:51:45>> will make sure
3:51:46>> I believe in the higher power as well.
3:51:48>> I'm glad you do, sir. That really makes
3:51:50me feel good. It really does. I'm
3:51:52serious.
3:51:53>> So then, you know,
3:51:54>> but Leticia, this comes down to common
3:51:57sense.
3:51:58>> And these prosecutor, I'm not talking
3:51:59about you. I'm talking about who you're
3:52:01going to be sitting in front of.
3:52:03>> Okay? And if you're going to take a
3:52:04chance that they're not going to listen
3:52:06to all this evidence,
3:52:08>> all this blood, all these stories that
3:52:10you told about Ganon, and that you have
3:52:12the key to finding him, and you don't do
3:52:14it, there's nobody else to prosecute.
3:52:16>> Okay.
3:52:18>> Why won't you go there?
3:52:20>> I'm not Why? Why am I What am I What
3:52:22else am I going to say?
3:52:23>> The easiest thing to tell me is the last
3:52:24time you saw Gan.
3:52:28>> I've already talked to you. I've already
3:52:31told you I did not reg. Okay.
3:52:34>> But then what do I need to do? I need to
3:52:36go through again the other things that
3:52:38might have happened again.
3:52:39>> You don't need to go through
3:52:40>> where did you gently place?
3:52:42>> What?
3:52:42>> I don't know how to phrase it.
3:52:44>> What are you talking about?
3:52:45>> I don't know cuz I don't know where he
3:52:47is.
3:52:48>> Okay.
3:52:48>> If you want me to use a different verb
3:52:50or whatever, I'm struggling.
3:53:02Leticia, this is not about you.
3:53:05>> I didn't.
3:53:05>> You're the one caught up in it, though.
3:53:07You're the one with all the evidence
3:53:08stacked against you.
3:53:09>> Okay. Well,
3:53:10>> help yourself right now.
3:53:12>> Help myself.
3:53:13>> Why would you not?
3:53:14>> Help myself to what?
3:53:15>> Just tell me what happened.
3:53:16>> But what happened to who? I don't know.
3:53:22>> The way you described it for a moment.
3:53:25>> Absolutely.
3:53:30The wounds that you describe to him
3:53:32don't even come close to the blood and
3:53:33the dust.
3:53:34>> That's what you think. This
3:53:35>> No, it's not.
3:53:36>> Okay.
3:53:37>> This is what people that do this for a
3:53:38living tell me.
3:53:39>> Okay.
3:53:39>> Again, I wasn't there, but a little gash
3:53:42on his head.
3:53:43>> Okay.
3:53:43>> Doesn't explain at all all that stuff
3:53:45that's in there.
3:53:46>> Okay.
3:53:49>> But do you want to go with that?
3:53:51>> Because the when you walk out of here,
3:53:52the last thing the last thing on record
3:53:54you're going to have is what you told
3:53:55me. And I would love to be your
3:53:57storyteller.
3:53:58>> Okay.
3:53:59>> I would love to tell the true story.
3:54:02It will help you. You believe in that
3:54:05higher power you.
3:54:06>> Oh, I do. That's why. You want to know
3:54:07why? You want to know why? You want to
3:54:10know why? I'm not sitting here like
3:54:11going crazy, freaking out, putting on an
3:54:14emotional show. Like I've seen people
3:54:16involved in this situation put on fake
3:54:19cries and all that because I know God
3:54:23knows that I did not do anything to gain
3:54:25it.
3:54:27>> Okay.
3:54:28>> I mean,
3:54:28>> but what about the truth?
3:54:30>> You you studied the same Bible, the same
3:54:33God. It tells a lot about truth in there
3:54:36and you have not told many truths in
3:54:38this whole thing.
3:54:39>> Well, so that guess what I Let me tell
3:54:41you what happened this morning when I
3:54:42woke up.
3:54:44When I woke up this morning, I watched a
3:54:47story about Ron Miller. So, he started
3:54:51this church and he ended up like getting
3:54:56talked down to, bullied online, treated
3:54:59like crap, accused of things he didn't
3:55:01do. And that's where he went to the
3:55:02accusations part. And so he went down
3:55:06this whole trail talking about how
3:55:08accusations
3:55:10and and how this did to him and what
3:55:13what he had to go through and all that.
3:55:16>> Okay.
3:55:17>> But in the end he kept his faith
3:55:21in Jesus Christ. But you know about the
3:55:23story of Paul, you know about Saul in
3:55:24the Bible. Okay. I walk I can walk you
3:55:27through a lot in the Bible. If you know,
3:55:28you know what I'm talking about. So
3:55:32he turned those accusations
3:55:35into just keeping steadfast and staying
3:55:38strong and into believing God's going to
3:55:41do this and keeping whatever because you
3:55:43know the Bible they persecuted a lot of
3:55:45Christians right a lot of them for
3:55:48things they didn't do right but you know
3:55:50there's a lot of stories where God made
3:55:51sure they were okay. So when I woke up
3:55:54this morning, I lit I literally decided
3:55:58God, you can take this and you can
3:56:03either a
3:56:05bring home,
3:56:08bring him to the front step, drop him
3:56:10off so that I can please never have to
3:56:14worry about this again. Or
3:56:18you can let me just stay focused on
3:56:21believing in you as in him and just
3:56:28the truth will come out. And it's okay
3:56:32because I don't want to sit here and
3:56:34accuse all these people or whatever. I'm
3:56:36not going to turn those same accusations
3:56:37against them for saying this and saying
3:56:40that, not believing this, not believing
3:56:41that. I'm just going to just sit there
3:56:43and say, "I know. I did not get it.
3:56:47>> But that I get you and thank you for
3:56:48that story. I agree with everything you
3:56:50said. No,
3:56:52>> I'd love to tell stories. Stories. You
3:56:54You take it like it's a bad thing.
3:56:58So
3:56:59I believe that the whole book you're
3:57:01talking about, the story about God in
3:57:03the Bible involves sacrifice.
3:57:05>> Mhm.
3:57:05>> Does it not?
3:57:07>> I did sacrifice.
3:57:10Greater love what? Has what? No man.
3:57:14Than to what?
3:57:15>> Love his life.
3:57:16>> Yeah.
3:57:16>> Yeah.
3:57:18>> And so we have a lot.
3:57:19>> You didn't know it, did you?
3:57:19>> No. I I figured you did. I wouldn't. And
3:57:21this is not to embarrass you
3:57:23>> because I know you're you are a God
3:57:26follower.
3:57:27>> And I went to Liberty University, so I
3:57:29just spend a lot of my time
3:57:31>> Yeah.
3:57:33>> studying Christian. And that's why I
3:57:35don't get that if Ganon is alive, you
3:57:38would not sacrifice yourself for him
3:57:39right now.
3:57:41If you've studied that your entire life,
3:57:45I believe that if my kid were alive, I
3:57:47promise you right now, I would go step
3:57:49in front of a truck and let it hit me if
3:57:52that would bring him back home so my
3:57:55wife could live with him and so my
3:57:57sister or his sister could live with
3:57:58him. Since you've studied that your
3:58:01whole life, if Ganon were alive,
3:58:04>> you would sacrifice yourself for him.
3:58:07>> You're right. If I could get you to him,
3:58:09I definitely would.
3:58:10>> You could. And all this BS about you
3:58:13saying it. It's here. It's there. Giving
3:58:15us names.
3:58:16>> Okay.
3:58:17>> You would not do that, Leticia.
3:58:19>> Leticia, you are not that type of
3:58:20person. If he were still around, you
3:58:22would not do that.
3:58:23>> Why would you even say that? Like, this
3:58:25is what drives me crazy. Because you
3:58:27Ganon is if if Ganon's alive.
3:58:29>> Really? You were about to say it. You
3:58:31You were really about to say it. I can't
3:58:32even believe that.
3:58:34>> Wow.
3:58:36>> Ah,
3:58:36>> you said if Ganon was alive, you would
3:58:38do everything, including sacrificing
3:58:40yourself to get us to him.
3:58:44>> That says he's not alive.
3:58:45>> Oh,
3:58:47wow.
3:58:48>> How do you argue with that?
3:58:50>> You have an 11-year-old boy out there
3:58:53that's supposedly with bad people. You
3:58:55are a good person. You've grown up. You
3:58:57went to
3:58:59You've gone to all these faith classes,
3:59:01churches.
3:59:04If you were around, you would sacrifice
3:59:06yourself for him.
3:59:07>> If I knew how to get to him, I would
3:59:09sacrifice myself to him.
3:59:10>> And you can get us to him. And you know
3:59:12that. That's why I brought
3:59:14>> so defeated. Like you're already like
3:59:17for you to have such a
3:59:20biblical background. You're so defeated
3:59:22in your mindset already to think
3:59:24something is harmful or hurt to again.
3:59:28>> It is.
3:59:28>> And that
3:59:30>> Yeah. But see, why do you care what I
3:59:31think?
3:59:32>> See, because you're the person in
3:59:34charge. You just said you were the main
3:59:35man basically what you said over your
3:59:38>> I have a lane that I'm running in.
3:59:39>> Right. Okay. That is the type of person
3:59:42that as a family they would want that
3:59:45person no matter what. Never ever giving
3:59:49up hope. saying,
3:59:53never saying to anyone anything bad like
3:59:56that. That that's just
3:59:59>> So, let's go a different way. If you did
4:00:01something bad again,
4:00:02>> I did not.
4:00:03>> I'm just saying I'm saying we go if if
4:00:06you did something bad again and could
4:00:08you ever admit it?
4:00:11>> What? I didn't do anything bad again.
4:00:14I'm not going to I'm not going to go in.
4:00:15is not a trick.
4:00:16>> But I'm not going to go answer that
4:00:18question because I did not do anything
4:00:20bad.
4:00:20>> The reason why I asked you that is the
4:00:22people that I've worked with are
4:00:24actually put in prison for life. I've
4:00:27told them and I've told people the
4:00:29families of these victims. I said, "If
4:00:31you put Harold in a room and you take
4:00:34everybody else out, we have absolute
4:00:36evidence that he pushed his wife off a
4:00:38cliff and that he dropped a car on his
4:00:39other wife and he was convicted." I
4:00:42said, ' Even if you clear everybody out
4:00:44and you just have Harold in a mirror,
4:00:46Harold was a God follower of Christ
4:00:48Christian like you are. I said he could
4:00:50never admit that he did that to evil
4:00:52life.
4:00:53>> Well, I'm sorry that what's his name?
4:00:55Harold. Harold is that type of person
4:00:58because a God follower, I'm not judging
4:01:01him. I'm saying
4:01:03in order for you, you have to repent
4:01:06your sins to God. Okay? And you have to
4:01:09put yourself there. And in order to
4:01:11repent yourself your sins to God, it
4:01:13means also you have to lay them all down
4:01:15on the cross. And like my sins are laid
4:01:18down and it is not involving hurting,
4:01:21harming or killing anyone. Okay. So I'm
4:01:24sorry that hurt Harold or whatever his
4:01:26name is has like a different approach.
4:01:28>> Well, I think you have probably a more
4:01:30serious problem than Harold though. Mhm.
4:01:32>> You know where an 11year-old is and I am
4:01:35here telling you we could go find him
4:01:37and you are not giving us his location
4:01:40alive or dead.
4:01:42>> So what Harold did was push a
4:01:4350-year-old woman off the cliff. It was
4:01:45an awful thing and the parents hated
4:01:47losing Tony. But Tony had lived a full
4:01:50life as cold as you can till 50. It was
4:01:53still tragic. Ganon's 11.
4:01:57>> The better of the matter age. Yeah.
4:01:59You're right. It's tragic, right?
4:02:01>> You just said that. If you had the
4:02:02answer, you would give it to us.
4:02:04>> I don't know where he is.
4:02:07>> But you won't answer my question about
4:02:09the last time you saw him.
4:02:10>> I've Listen, sir. Anything I say to you,
4:02:12you're not going to listen to me. You're
4:02:14going to take and you're going to say
4:02:15you this.
4:02:16>> I'm not going to twist things, Laticia.
4:02:18>> You're going to do that. And
4:02:20>> to be honest with you, I can give you
4:02:23speculation
4:02:25with everyone else.
4:02:26>> I can give you I'll take speculation.
4:02:29Speculation is getting his life.
4:02:32Speculation is being with is with
4:02:34someone who is not willing to hurt him
4:02:36until they get something they want.
4:02:38>> Why wouldn't they make the demand then?
4:02:42>> Why would they hold an 11year-old kid?
4:02:44That's more sophisticated.
4:02:45>> I didn't say I was answering
4:02:47speculation. I said that is what I do. I
4:02:51don't know why people do things. Okay?
4:02:54But I can only tell you what I did or
4:02:56didn't do. And I did not hurt
4:03:00whatever all these words you came up
4:03:02with. Hurt, kill, dispose. I didn't do
4:03:05any of that to Ganon.
4:03:08>> Let me make sure I say his whole name.
4:03:09Ganon, Jacob, Scout. So that way you
4:03:12don't think I'm getting confused with
4:03:13another
4:03:15person in Ganon.
4:03:17They did not. You can tell me all you
4:03:20want, hey, you're not going to do this.
4:03:22No, sir. I have nothing but respect for
4:03:25you until I asked for help.
4:03:28And see, that's the problem.
4:03:29>> Do you want me to tell you back what you
4:03:31told me for help? I can read it back to
4:03:33you.
4:03:33>> I don't want you to tell me anything.
4:03:34>> I took notes.
4:03:35>> What I want is for you guys to believe
4:03:40and have faith that
4:03:43>> Why would we do that with the amount of
4:03:44blood in his bedroom?
4:03:46>> That's not sad.
4:03:47>> Yes, it does. That the blood tells a
4:03:50humongous story.
4:03:51>> Yes.
4:03:52>> I had a really really bad miscarriage
4:03:54one time and there was so much blood. So
4:03:57much
4:03:58>> on the wall.
4:03:59>> So much blood. Not on the wall. I'm See,
4:04:01you want me to tell you something, but
4:04:03then you're saying, can I can I explain
4:04:04this to you?
4:04:04>> No, I get that.
4:04:05>> Okay. There was so much blood that you
4:04:10would have thought
4:04:12I wasn't even alive by the time I got to
4:04:14the hospital.
4:04:16So the amount of whatever you're talking
4:04:19about, I'm not as a parent going to sit
4:04:22there and say something like I'm just
4:04:23not
4:04:25I'm just not going to do that because
4:04:27I'm not going to believe
4:04:28>> if you had nothing to do with harming
4:04:30Ganon. Why would you clean up the blood
4:04:32that's on the wall?
4:04:34>> Do you So you're saying you've never had
4:04:37anything happen in your house and you
4:04:38cleaned it up? Never. Like you've never
4:04:40had like
4:04:41>> Why would you cut out the carpet?
4:04:43>> Nose bleeds the carpet. Mhm.
4:04:46>> Because I was going to get more carpet.
4:04:49It doesn't The carpet had nothing to do
4:04:52with cutting it out. It was getting
4:04:53smelled. It stunk. I couldn't breathe.
4:04:56None of us could breathe.
4:04:57>> Did you say that Lena helped you clean
4:05:00up some of the blood on the wall?
4:05:02>> Lena always helps us clean up
4:05:04everything. Lena helped us clean up the
4:05:05light bleach. Lena helped clean up when
4:05:07Gana had a nose bleeding. Okay.
4:05:09>> But for this occasion, she helped with
4:05:11that.
4:05:13Now you're going to walk me back through
4:05:15what we've already talked about. So
4:05:18you're now going to go be like, "Oh, an
4:05:208-year-old this and an 8-year-old that."
4:05:23Come on, sir. We There was all the time.
4:05:26G was bleeding all the time. He'd have a
4:05:28nose bleed randomly at the drop of a
4:05:30dime. He'd bite his fingers bleed all
4:05:34the time.
4:05:37>> Would it help if I gave you a picture of
4:05:38the wall of what all showed up on it?
4:05:41Sir, that's not going to get me to say
4:05:43anything to you because I didn't do
4:05:45anything.
4:05:46>> What I'm trying to appeal to though is
4:05:48again you weighing your options right
4:05:50now before we're gone.
4:05:53>> Sir,
4:05:54>> because you're taking a big risk with
4:05:55these [ __ ]
4:05:56>> Sir, I believe
4:05:59in a higher power and that higher power
4:06:01is going to show the entire world.
4:06:07And when it does,
4:06:10I would never have to work a day in my
4:06:11life again.
4:06:13And that's going to happen.
4:06:16Guarantee you.
4:06:18Because I did not hurt. I did not
4:06:21dispose, kill, whatever you want to call
4:06:24these things that you're going to name
4:06:25out as verbs.
4:06:29>> Then what did you do?
4:06:30>> Didn't do anything. Ganon.
4:06:33>> Then why would you act like this? I'm
4:06:35acting like this because I've had to
4:06:39spend nothing but every day. You think I
4:06:42haven't every single day cry? You think
4:06:45I haven't every single day been trying
4:06:48to work on figuring out different things
4:06:50work situations? What could I do? You
4:06:53think I haven't had all these raw
4:06:55emotions and feelings?
4:06:58A person can have them so much.
4:07:01So, it doesn't matter if they continue
4:07:03to have them because then they just be
4:07:05like, "What's the point? I I have them
4:07:07all the time with my family."
4:07:08>> I'm not talking about friends.
4:07:10>> I'm talking about why would you act like
4:07:12this when there's a boy out there?
4:07:14>> I want Canon home.
4:07:17>> Then tell me how to do it. I
4:07:18>> I want to help you. I don't know. I
4:07:21don't.
4:07:22>> But see, that's where easy questions
4:07:25should be easy to answer.
4:07:27>> I just said I don't know. That's an easy
4:07:28answer. The easy answer is tell me the
4:07:31very last time you laid eyes on him.
4:07:32Where was he? Was he laying down? Was he
4:07:34standing up? Was he sitting? Was he
4:07:36walking to a car?
4:07:39>> Where was Give me your very last image
4:07:41of Ganon.
4:07:45That's an easy question. You have to
4:07:48remember your last image of Ganon.
4:07:52Laticia,
4:07:54what was he doing?
4:07:58Why would you not answer that?
4:08:00>> Because I'm giving you
4:08:01>> No, tell. You haven't told me exactly
4:08:04what you saw when you saw him for the
4:08:05very last time. Did you see the back of
4:08:07his head? Did you see his face?
4:08:10>> What was his expression?
4:08:13Did he say goodbye to you?
4:08:18Tell me of your last, you know, I wish I
4:08:20could see in your head right now. Your
4:08:22very last image is there, but you won't
4:08:23tell me. Why won't you tell me?
4:08:26>> Cuz it's nothing bad. Do you
4:08:27>> Well, then tell me. If it's nothing bad,
4:08:29you would tell me.
4:08:38>> What's your last image of Ganon?
4:08:40>> Sir, I don't have any bad images of Gan.
4:08:43>> I didn't say it was bad. I don't have
4:08:45any.
4:08:45>> What's the very last picture of seeing
4:08:47Ganon alive
4:08:49>> or not alive that you have in your
4:08:50brain? He is alive. I'm not
4:08:52>> then. Tell me the last time you saw him.
4:08:56>> What did you see?
4:09:04>> Tisha, all that stuff you said earlier.
4:09:06>> Okay.
4:09:07>> Being a good person, you didn't hurt
4:09:09him. You didn't do all this. I'm
4:09:10repeating it back to you. Why could you
4:09:12not tell me then? If that all that is
4:09:14true,
4:09:15you know the last time you saw him. What
4:09:17would that hurt to tell me?
4:09:31Do you need time to think?
4:09:32>> No, I don't.
4:09:33>> Well, then tell me.
4:09:34>> I don't need any time, sir.
4:09:35>> What is wrong with that question?
4:09:36>> There's nothing wrong with a question.
4:09:38You're I'm not I've already made it
4:09:40clear that I wasn't going to answer more
4:09:43questions. You've never answered this
4:09:44one
4:09:45>> because
4:09:46you have already predetermined what you
4:09:49want in your brain along with everyone
4:09:52else.
4:09:52>> Why do you care about what's in my
4:09:53brain?
4:09:54>> So you you just asked me about mine.
4:09:57>> Yeah, because your brain's the only one
4:09:59that counts here. It doesn't matter
4:10:00what's in my brain.
4:10:03The very last time you saw Ganon, where
4:10:05was he? What What was he doing?
4:10:13Did you put a Did y'all put a reward
4:10:14out?
4:10:16>> There's no need to put a reward out.
4:10:18>> Okay.
4:10:19>> Can you please answer that?
4:10:21>> See, you automatically have a
4:10:23predetermined thing in your brain.
4:10:25>> If you give me something else, I'll go.
4:10:27>> Yeah. No, that Wow.
4:10:29>> Why do you care about my brain, Leticia?
4:10:31Yours is the one that matters.
4:10:33>> Sir,
4:10:34>> what's the last thing you saw?
4:10:36>> Tell you one more time. I did not hurt.
4:10:38>> I didn't ask that. I did not ask that. I
4:10:40don't care.
4:10:43>> What is the last thing that you have?
4:10:44>> Have I checked all these places I've
4:10:46been?
4:10:47>> Why don't you answer that question?
4:10:48>> Why don't you answer me? Have you
4:10:50checked all these places I've been? And
4:10:52where was Ganon? Was he there?
4:10:56>> Doesn't that like seeing in your brain
4:10:58for a little bit to say
4:11:00>> you're going to live with it for the
4:11:01rest of your life? Leticia,
4:11:03>> why don't you tell me today?
4:11:05>> I'm not living with anything horrible in
4:11:07my brain. I'm not.
4:11:09>> Okay. Okay. Well, then it should be an
4:11:10easy question.
4:11:11>> I've given you the answer
4:11:12>> of the last time you saw him.
4:11:15>> No, you haven't.
4:11:18>> No.
4:11:21>> Cuz I'm afraid it's not the image that
4:11:23you want to be left with.
4:11:24>> What? Sir, that's not going to convince
4:11:27me to say something that I didn't.
4:11:29>> Okay, then maybe it is the image. Then
4:11:30tell me. Why else would you not tell me?
4:11:33>> Because you keep going with the same
4:11:35question. And if you've already answer,
4:11:37>> but you predetermined yourself. No.
4:11:39>> When I thought you were going to help,
4:11:41that was different. But you
4:11:42predetermined yourself.
4:11:43>> You didn't tell me what the last thing
4:11:44you saw was, even with your answer
4:11:46there. And that's fine. If you want to
4:11:48tell me the thing with Angel, I don't
4:11:49care.
4:11:50>> Say anything other than saying
4:11:53I will.
4:11:55It will
4:11:57shock
4:11:59everyone.
4:12:01But I will promise you, I won't have to
4:12:03worry about nothing the rest of my life
4:12:05because I didn't do it. And this come
4:12:07out. What's going to come out that you
4:12:10didn't tell the FBI who took Ganon? If
4:12:12that's your deal,
4:12:14how is that going to shock everybody?
4:12:16>> Okay. Okay, sir.
4:12:20Okay.
4:12:21>> I didn't think you were guilty until you
4:12:23don't answer the last time you saw him.
4:12:24>> Sorry. Came in this morning.
4:12:26>> No, I did not.
4:12:27>> And you automatically thought that. You
4:12:29automatically thought that already. I
4:12:31was willing to listen if you were going
4:12:32to give me evidence to the contrary,
4:12:35but I have talked to many people who
4:12:37have seen someone disappear. It never
4:12:40goes away. That last image of
4:12:43>> Well,
4:12:43>> it never goes away and you've got it in
4:12:45your mind and you won't tell me.
4:12:47>> Right. You're
4:12:47>> there is only one reason you won't tell
4:12:49me.
4:12:49>> You're right. People do have when people
4:12:51do bad things, their images stay in
4:12:53their brain. You're right.
4:12:54>> Bad or good. Some a lot of these dads
4:12:56didn't know when the last time they were
4:12:57going to see their daughter. I mean,
4:12:58>> and they still remember it like it was
4:13:00yesterday. 14 years later.
4:13:01>> Oh, yeah.
4:13:02>> You remember the last time you saw Gan?
4:13:04>> Yeah.
4:13:05>> So, tell me what you saw.
4:13:07>> Nothing negative.
4:13:08>> So, tell me what you saw.
4:13:09>> I saw nothing negative. I saw nothing
4:13:14with Gan.
4:13:14>> You're not telling You're telling me
4:13:16nothing. You're saying nothing. Nothing.
4:13:17Just tell me what you did see. The
4:13:19positive.
4:13:20>> Ganon
4:13:23was fine. Canon.
4:13:26>> Where was he? Was he standing? You tell
4:13:28me what I see. I'm I'm just going to
4:13:30tell you.
4:13:30>> Okay. I'm sorry to interrupt.
4:13:31>> How Ganon was.
4:13:32>> Okay.
4:13:33>> Okay. Genon was fine. Gon Nothing is
4:13:37wrong with him. Ganon was happy. Ganon
4:13:42is
4:13:44my
4:13:46favorite stepchild. My favorite. I know
4:13:49everybody says they have favorites and
4:13:51and things like that or they say they
4:13:52not really necessarily favorite or
4:13:54whatever, but he was. Do you remember
4:13:56how we talked earlier? Remember how we
4:13:58talked earlier about when I ask you a
4:13:59question and you go around?
4:14:01>> I'm not but I'm not answering that
4:14:02question.
4:14:03>> You're saying you're giving me qualities
4:14:05of Ganon. You're not saying what you
4:14:06saw. You're saying he's a favorite
4:14:08stepson.
4:14:09>> What did you see?
4:14:11>> Was he standing or sitting?
4:14:13>> I didn't do anything to Ganon.
4:14:14>> I didn't say you did. I said your last
4:14:16memory.
4:14:16>> Okay. Well, I didn't do anything to
4:14:18Ganon. So,
4:14:18>> do you have it in your mind right now?
4:14:20No.
4:14:21>> Seeing him for the last time? Oh, well,
4:14:23it's not going to be the last time that
4:14:24I see him.
4:14:25>> The last time you saw him, do you have
4:14:27that last time?
4:14:28>> Do you have that picture in your mind?
4:14:30>> Good.
4:14:32>> Yes, sir. Now,
4:14:33>> this
4:14:35I know you're really good at what you
4:14:36do. I appreciate that.
4:14:40You you I know that. But I didn't do
4:14:43this. This is
4:14:43>> Well, why don't you tell me the answer
4:14:45to that question?
4:14:46>> Because you I'm not Why would I keep
4:14:48answering questions for you?
4:14:49>> But that's that is not a hard question
4:14:51to answer. I'm not saying did you kill
4:14:53him? I'm not saying did you put him in a
4:14:55forest? I'm not saying did you put him
4:14:56in a dumpster. This is just your last
4:14:58image. You've got to have it.
4:15:01>> My images are happy life. That's what
4:15:04always you see in your brain.
4:15:06>> Okay. Well, see, now you know my brain.
4:15:08>> Yes, I know.
4:15:11>> Oh my god.
4:15:12>> You have an image of the last time you
4:15:14saw Ganon.
4:15:15>> Okay.
4:15:17>> If you didn't hurt him, why won't you
4:15:18tell him?
4:15:19>> I already told you I didn't hurt him. I
4:15:20know, but if you didn't, why would why
4:15:22would that image be a problem for you?
4:15:23>> It's not a problem. I don't have a
4:15:25problem with anything.
4:15:25>> Then tell me I'm not accusing you of
4:15:28anything, Laticia. Just tell me the last
4:15:30time you saw it.
4:15:34>> This is an easy question compared to all
4:15:36the other ones we've done.
4:15:41Please,
4:15:48>> are you going to find him?
4:15:50>> Yes.
4:15:51>> Well, I would rather spend our time
4:15:52doing that because I don't have him. I
4:15:55didn't do anything with him, to him, or
4:15:57hurt him.
4:15:58>> Okay.
4:16:00>> And I appreciate all your work.
4:16:02>> You can help us more than anybody on
4:16:04this planet. You can help me right now
4:16:06find Ganon.
4:16:08>> Let's start with the one question I
4:16:09asked you.
4:16:10>> No,
4:16:12I don't trust anymore
4:16:14>> for you because
4:16:15>> Well, just tell me why you don't want to
4:16:17answer that.
4:16:18>> Because I I've already It doesn't
4:16:20matter. I can tell you I last saw Ganon
4:16:22when I went to the store this morning
4:16:25and it could be legit true and you would
4:16:27still be like He was not at least.
4:16:31I mean,
4:16:33>> I will be able to tell if you'd say what
4:16:36he's wearing or not even what he's
4:16:38wearing, how he was walking, what he you
4:16:40will remember this.
4:16:46>> And just you not answering it means you
4:16:47remember it.
4:16:48>> No, it doesn't.
4:16:49>> Yes, it does.
4:16:50>> Okay. Well, I'm glad that you now are a
4:16:53psychologist.
4:16:54>> No, it's behavior analysis.
4:16:55>> Okay, good. I'm glad you have behavior
4:16:57analysis. Okay.
4:17:00I I'm glad. I appreciate you having me
4:17:03here analysis. I mean, what else do you
4:17:05want me to say here, dude? I mean, what
4:17:08else?
4:17:09>> So, you don't want to answer that one?
4:17:11>> I don't I don't want to tell you
4:17:12anything else. Because
4:17:14>> why? If it helps find Ganon, why would
4:17:16you not tell?
4:17:17>> Because you already predetermined.
4:17:19>> I didn't say you heard him or anything.
4:17:21I think you know where he is, though.
4:17:22>> You already predetermined this. You
4:17:25have.
4:17:26>> The scene does tell the story. Yes. So
4:17:27if that's your story, then I'm not going
4:17:31to keep saying anything because I know
4:17:34that is not the case. So if I keep
4:17:37saying anything to you, you're just
4:17:39going to keep blah blah blah blah blah
4:17:41about it and I've been nothing but
4:17:42respectful to you. So I'm trying to
4:17:44remain
4:17:45>> I'm trying to remain respectful to you
4:17:48overall because I don't have any
4:17:50disrespect for you and I don't treat
4:17:52people like that. But it's putting me in
4:17:55a situation where I'm like saying to
4:17:58you, I cannot say anything else because
4:18:02you've expressed predetermined
4:18:05what you think.
4:18:08You've already done that. So no matter
4:18:10what I say, I legit could take you right
4:18:14to Ganon and he would be standing there
4:18:16and you would still say to me, "Well,
4:18:18that's not him." Or you would say
4:18:20something else. Just
4:18:21>> do you know how good that would be for
4:18:22you?
4:18:23>> Oh. Oh, trust me. Yes.
4:18:25>> Then why do you care what I think?
4:18:26>> You know how good that would be for me?
4:18:28Absolutely.
4:18:29>> Why do you care what I think? You should
4:18:30not care at all what I think.
4:18:33You You said You said I wouldn't think.
4:18:36>> If you could take a Sagan right now,
4:18:38that would mean the world to you.
4:18:39>> Trust me, if if I knew, you think I
4:18:42wouldn't have already done that? You
4:18:45think at like whatever time it was I
4:18:46first saw you, I wouldn't have been
4:18:48like, "Okay, look, even if I was just
4:18:52hiding somewhere just because I whatever
4:18:56reason that these theories are out
4:18:57there, I know I Googled a bunch of them
4:18:59to see what people had said.
4:19:02Even if let's just say if okay he was
4:19:06sitting somewhere and let's just say
4:19:08okay he had to get better cuz he was
4:19:09sick and had the food
4:19:11and I could take him take you to him and
4:19:15oh he's better now. You think I wouldn't
4:19:18you think it wouldn't be like a lot
4:19:19easier to be like okay yeah he was this
4:19:22and you know I had him waiting there.
4:19:24I'm sorry for you utilizing your
4:19:26resources and all those things. Right.
4:19:28>> I would say that to you.
4:19:30>> Correct.
4:19:30>> Right. If I knew where he was, that's
4:19:32exactly what I would do. And I would
4:19:34say,
4:19:35>> if you knew he was alive, you would
4:19:36>> I know he's alive.
4:19:37>> How do you know he's alive?
4:19:38>> Because I know he's alive.
4:19:40>> How?
4:19:40>> Because I know he's alive.
4:19:42>> We're the one agency that can help you
4:19:44find him right now and you won't tell
4:19:46us.
4:19:48That makes no sense.
4:19:48>> And could he could be like, what if he
4:19:50didn't want to be found?
4:19:52>> An 11year-old.
4:19:53>> I mean, you never know.
4:19:54>> No, I know.
4:19:55>> Yeah. I mean, what if he didn't want to
4:19:57be found?
4:19:58>> Yeah. So, he bled.
4:19:59>> What if he wanted to go somewhere? about
4:20:00he wanted to go live with his mom and
4:20:02maybe he wanted to go do whatever so he
4:20:05can come back and do this to go live
4:20:07with his mom. What if that was a game?
4:20:08>> That could happen.
4:20:09>> And he could inflict these awful
4:20:11injuries to himself in his bedroom.
4:20:15Yeah. And then he could tell you to do
4:20:17false reporting
4:20:19and then you're going to have to be just
4:20:21like you're scared of these guys, you'd
4:20:23be scared of Ganon and you would do the
4:20:24false reporting because Ganon told you
4:20:26to. No, it has nothing to do with being
4:20:28I'm just I was giving you a scenario.
4:20:31That's all. I wasn't saying anything
4:20:33about false reporting. Giving you a
4:20:35scenario. I was saying
4:20:37>> Ganon didn't want to be found. I'm
4:20:38kidding.
4:20:39>> I'm saying or Ganon could have been
4:20:41like, "What? What if he would have said
4:20:42if I would have told you that he said to
4:20:44me, hey, I want to go live with my mom.
4:20:46Can you help me get there?" And along
4:20:48the way helping him get there,
4:20:52let's just say, "Oh, the bus, something
4:20:54happened when he got on the bus or
4:20:55something." you would still sit there
4:20:57and say to me, "Well,
4:21:00you know, it's your fault because
4:21:03>> and then you could care less what I
4:21:05thought or what I said because I don't
4:21:07have any meaning to you, Laticia. After
4:21:09today, you're not going to see me again
4:21:11until we're in the courtroom a year or
4:21:13two years from now, whatever that is."
4:21:14>> I understand.
4:21:15>> I'm insignificant in your life. So,
4:21:17don't you don't need to care at all what
4:21:19I think. The way you could help yourself
4:21:22today, and I'm not saying this to
4:21:24benefit me in any way, is to tell us how
4:21:26to find Ganon. That changes everything
4:21:29for you. Alive or dead. If you tell us,
4:21:33>> I'm not dead. Please stop saying that.
4:21:35>> I said alive or dead,
4:21:38you can help us find him. You're the
4:21:41only one that can.
4:21:52I think it's too hard for you.
4:21:53>> It's not hard, sir.
4:21:55>> It's impossible.
4:21:56>> No.
4:21:56>> Yes, it is.
4:21:57>> It just not
4:21:58>> because I have worked with people like
4:22:00you before.
4:22:01>> Oh, I'm glad you're classifying me as
4:22:02people like me.
4:22:04>> What do you think people like you are?
4:22:06They call in and say your father-in-law
4:22:08got killed by a car or whatever.
4:22:12>> They think they are.
4:22:15You've got away with spinning stories
4:22:17and dodging questions your whole life.
4:22:21>> So now you know me my whole life.
4:22:24>> I can well I can look back a little bit.
4:22:25I don't know you when you were five or
4:22:2713 or 16
4:22:30but I think something bad happened and
4:22:33you've been able to avoid trouble
4:22:36but but that doesn't happen in this
4:22:38case. Okay. These stories that you told
4:22:41are much worse for you than if you had
4:22:42just said the best thing you could have
4:22:44said is Ganon just went and that's it.
4:22:47I'm not saying anything else.
4:22:49>> Mhm.
4:22:49>> But you describing all these injuries to
4:22:51him, even to us today, is awful.
4:22:55>> Injury that it's not injuries like that.
4:22:57>> Yes, you talked about it.
4:22:59>> No, it's not even injuries. Kids have
4:23:01there all the time. You raise children
4:23:03and they never got hurt.
4:23:05>> Like they never
4:23:05>> not all on the last day they're seen
4:23:07alive. That's not even how it was.
4:23:09You're making it out to be like some
4:23:11whatever. That's not even how it was.
4:23:14>> Tell me how it was then.
4:23:15>> Ganon and I are very close.
4:23:19>> Okay.
4:23:20>> But see, that's what you don't do. You
4:23:21You say generalizations when I ask you
4:23:23how was it.
4:23:25>> What was why? I don't even know what
4:23:26you're asking me.
4:23:27>> The injury that caused that pool in the
4:23:29corner. It's not a little scratch on its
4:23:31head.
4:23:31>> Okay. Why don't you test it and see what
4:23:33day it came from?
4:23:35If if that's what you're telling me, why
4:23:37don't you test it and see what day?
4:23:39>> So, it didn't happen on Monday. It
4:23:41happened on Saturday.
4:23:42>> I'm asking you. You You are the one who
4:23:44are telling me no matter what I say,
4:23:47you're telling me it's your way or no
4:23:48way. So, why don't you tell me?
4:23:49>> Well, I'm saying it's a significant
4:23:51enough injury that he was not going to
4:23:52be normal after that.
4:23:54>> Not what?
4:23:55>> Yep.
4:23:55>> Oh, God.
4:23:56>> That's what they told me.
4:23:57>> Okay. Well, that is awful that people
4:24:01aren't normal after after anything like
4:24:03that. It's a significant
4:24:04>> I had puddles of blood. I remember that
4:24:06I had
4:24:07>> We're not talking about you. We're
4:24:08talking about 11year-old.
4:24:09>> They said I did and it was there was no
4:24:11significant injury that I died.
4:24:14>> Do you not find that coincidental?
4:24:16>> What sir?
4:24:17>> That the blood on the wall and by his
4:24:20bed mattress.
4:24:23>> The blood that you or your team allow
4:24:26people to be in the house.
4:24:28>> That has no bearing on this.
4:24:29>> Okay. Well, if it doesn't then Okay.
4:24:31>> It doesn't.
4:24:32>> Okay.
4:24:33Okay,
4:24:36maybe check one of them.
4:24:39>> Are you ready to tell me the last time
4:24:40you saw Gon? M
4:24:42>> maybe check one of them because
4:24:44>> I bet you they can tell me the last time
4:24:46they saw Ganon even though it was months
4:24:48before.
4:24:49>> I bet Al can tell you the last time he
4:24:51saw Ganon even though he didn't know
4:24:53that was going to be the last time.
4:24:55>> I guarantee you he's got an image again.
4:24:57You were the last one with Laticia.
4:25:00>> Okay.
4:25:03What do I need to say to help you?
4:25:06>> I'm serious.
4:25:08>> You do not want to help me.
4:25:09>> Yes, I do.
4:25:10>> No, you don't.
4:25:12>> You want me to tell you what you want to
4:25:14hear. That's what you want.
4:25:17>> No.
4:25:17>> Yes.
4:25:19>> I have never wanted people to tell me
4:25:21what I want to hear. If it doesn't lead
4:25:23me to finding Ganon or the truth of this
4:25:26matter, I could care less what it is.
4:25:29Like I said, most of the time I'm wrong.
4:25:33I have to have people like you tell me
4:25:35the truth.
4:25:40If you didn't have anything to hide, you
4:25:41tell me your last image.
4:25:42>> Have anything to hide?
4:25:44>> Then tell me.
4:25:46That's not a That's not a guilt or
4:25:48innocence question. Just your last image
4:25:50of Ganon.
4:25:53>> Okay. Now, you don't have to tell me the
4:25:54last time you saw him. Just your last
4:25:56image in your head.
4:26:00What's the last image in your head you
4:26:02have of him? Not
4:26:02>> that one.
4:26:05>> Or was he?
4:26:06>> Yeah, you said the image. That's the
4:26:07image.
4:26:07>> I mean, was he sitting? Is he standing?
4:26:09Is he laying down? What's he doing?
4:26:12>> Walking
4:26:14>> towards you or away from you?
4:26:16>> Away.
4:27:08You have any questions for me?
4:27:10>> H
4:27:10>> any questions for me?
4:27:13>> No.
4:27:18>> No, I'm asking you. Have I not Have I
4:27:20not asked you? Have I not asked you a
4:27:22question that I should be asking you?
4:27:30Anything?
4:27:38I don't have the answers.
4:27:49Sure. I will see you if I can, but I
4:27:52can't what I got right now.
4:28:29You all right? You stand up.
4:28:31>> Yeah.
4:28:35>> Anything.
4:28:36>> What do you think? What
4:28:37>> is there anything I need to ask you that
4:28:39I haven't?
4:28:41>> No.
4:28:44You can go see if the market don't need
4:28:47anything.
4:28:48>> Can I go to the bathroom?
4:28:49>> Sure.
4:28:50>> Well, I
4:28:57think we're done. The t-shirt.
4:28:59>> Okay.
4:29:00>> So, from here, like I said, you're going
4:29:01to have to go to u whatever the jail
4:29:04that holds you in. Colorado's got the
4:29:06warrant, so they're going to transport
4:29:08you in.
4:29:09>> Okay.
4:29:09>> Do you have anything else for me? I
4:29:11think we've talked for long enough
4:29:13today, but if you have something you
4:29:14want to say, I'll sit here for another
4:29:16four hours.
4:29:17>> All right. Well, where's the where's the
4:29:19warrant?
4:29:20>> The warrant's in the system. It's It's
4:29:22in the U MCIC is what they call it.
4:29:27That's what they picked you up on today
4:29:28was the arrest warrant in Colorado.
4:29:30>> Okay.
4:29:30>> So, you're going to be going back there.
4:29:33Anything else?
4:29:34>> What do you want to get charged with
4:29:36again?
4:29:36>> First-degree murder for ganon stuff.
4:29:40That's what I was trying to come in here
4:29:42with you to help you is if we find Ganon
4:29:46that makes a big difference.
4:29:48>> Let me go.
4:29:50>> We'll let you go.
4:29:51>> He's alive.
4:29:54>> If he's alive, would you might as well
4:29:57try it. I can't speak for the district
4:29:59attorney. I'm not an attorney. I'm I'm
4:30:02an investigator.
4:30:03>> Okay. If he's alive and you can get us
4:30:05scanning, yes, good things will happen
4:30:08to you today versus getting shipped back
4:30:10to Colorado.
4:30:11>> Right.
4:30:13Right. Can I talk to you about
4:30:16just
4:30:40I had already like I call one.
4:30:42>> Do you have an attorney you'd like to
4:30:44call? Do you have the number?
4:30:46>> Well, I work out the Google number cuz
4:30:47you have my phone, but Laura can get the
4:30:49number or some guy from here, but he
4:30:53would kind of work through it on
4:30:58Okay.
4:30:59Well, I imagine he's been Laura's
4:31:01probably notified him already.
4:31:03>> No, I mean she would have to know how to
4:31:06get funds to get cuz he said
4:31:08pre-investigative
4:31:10just wait and then call as soon as like
4:31:13whatever.
4:31:13>> Okay.
4:31:14>> And then I could give him information at
4:31:16the time to do.
4:31:19>> Well, pretty sure we need to get you
4:31:21into custody now. I mean, the reason
4:31:24that I took you out there is I thought
4:31:25you going to have information on camera.
4:31:27I you just said that. So you said I
4:31:30can't call
4:31:31>> What do you need to call him for?
4:31:35>> Because I I'm sorry. I I have the right
4:31:37to an attorney to represent me. So
4:31:39>> correct. And you want this attorney to
4:31:41represent you in the Colorado case?
4:31:42>> Yes.
4:31:45>> Do you know the number?
4:31:46>> No. That's why I said I need to get
4:31:47Laura.
4:31:48>> You need to get Laura. All right. Let me
4:31:50see if we've got that.
4:31:54They're
4:32:03calling Laura.
4:32:10>> You want to go to the restroom again?
4:32:12>> Okay.
4:32:25[Music]

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