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Staged Suicide | Matthew Ecker Interrogation — Transcript

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0:00Like we said, you got to really think of
0:02a good story here because right now the
0:04evidence is not adding up to what you're
0:06telling us.
0:07>> Disclaimer: This video is for commentary
0:10and educational purposes only. All
0:12individuals are presumed innocent until
0:14proven guilty in a court of law. Any
0:16footage used in this video is obtained
0:18through public records and falls under
0:20fair use for the purpose of reporting,
0:22analysis, and public interest. On a cold
0:25December night in St. Hall. 32-year-old
0:27registered nurse Alexander Pennig was
0:30found dead on the bathroom floor of her
0:31apartment. She had been killed by a
0:33single [music] gunshot wound to the
0:35head. Only minutes earlier, Pennig had
0:37returned home from downtown bars [music]
0:39with Matthew Eker, a married nurse
0:41practitioner from Fergus Falls with whom
0:43she had been involved in a secret
0:45[music] relationship. According to
0:47police, Ecker told investigators that
0:49Penn had suddenly taken his handgun,
0:51locked herself in the bathroom, [music]
0:52and shot herself. But when officers
0:54entered the apartment, the scene raised
0:56immediate [music] questions. The gun was
0:58resting on Penn's chest despite evidence
1:00she was right-handed. Blood around her
1:02head had already dried. [music] The
1:04bathroom door showed signs of forced
1:05entry. An Eker's account of what
1:07happened began to shift. What initially
1:10appeared to be a suicide quickly became
1:11the focus of a homicide investigation.
1:13[music]
1:14One built on forensic contradictions,
1:16surveillance footage, and Eker's own
1:18changing statements. This is the
1:20interrogation of Matthew Eker.
1:24Hi, Matthew. [clears throat]
1:30Hey,
1:31>> Matthew. I'm Sergeant.
1:33>> This is Sergeant Zebro.
1:38>> Sorry for your lost.
1:40>> Sorry.
1:42You good? You want any more water or
1:43anything? You good? Okay.
1:47>> Yeah.
1:49Um, thanks so much for coming down here
1:51to talk with us.
1:55Um,
1:57just because of the situation and
1:58everything that is going on, I just I
2:00know you came down here voluntarily
2:03appreciate it. I'm going to read you
2:04your mind, right? Just uh
2:06>> going to go through that. So, we'll go
2:08through that and then we'll uh
2:11talk. Okay.
2:14Um case number is 22229979.
2:18The date is 1216
2:212020 20. Let me know if you need to stop
2:24anytime or if you want something to
2:25drink. Do you want coffee though?
2:27>> No.
2:28>> Okay. From the interview is 6:36.
2:32And what's your name?
2:33>> Uh Matthew Becker.
2:34>> Can you spell it for me?
2:35>> M A T H E W B C K E R.
2:40>> B C K K K K K K K K K K K K K K K K K K
2:40K K K K K K K K K K K K K K K K K K K K
2:40K K E R. Your middle name? Uh, Philip
2:43>> Phillip
2:44>> Phillip P H I L L I P.
2:50>> How old are you?
2:51>> Uh, 44.
2:53>> What's your date of birth?
2:54>> 9137.
2:57>> In your address,
3:04>> very small, Minnesota.
3:11Uh marital status?
3:13>> I'm married.
3:14>> And you a performer.
3:22>> Are you employed?
3:24>> Yes.
3:24>> I
3:34>> What's that if you know
3:37that you don't want to do? Yeah, it's
3:41I don't know
3:42>> city.
3:42>> Oh, first
3:44>> Okay.
3:47>> Do you know the phone number for that?
3:57>> Um, last grade you completed.
4:01>> Got a master degree.
4:04>> From where?
4:05>> Sims College, Austin.
4:10All right, I'm just going to read you
4:12these. You have the rights to
4:14protection. Yes, against
4:15self-inccrimination listed below. Uh,
4:17please read along with officer's initial
4:19each statement. If you understand it,
4:20I'll speak to you. You have the right to
4:23remain silent and refuse at any time to
4:25answer any questions during asked by a
4:27police officer. [snorts]
4:31Anything you do or say can be used
4:33against him. You have the right to talk
4:35to a lawyer and to have one. the lawyer
4:37with you during any questioning. If you
4:39cannot afford a lawyer won't be
4:40appointed for you and you may remain
4:42silent until you have talked to that
4:44lawyer. And then can you just read that
4:45please?
4:46>> The above rights have been written to me
4:48that initial each
4:52to show that I understand each of my
4:53rights. I received a copy of this.
4:58>> Thank you again. Matthew, we're really
5:00sorry for your loss.
5:03Can you just uh start from the
5:06beginning? Tell me what happened
5:07tonight.
5:10>> So,
5:12if we start from the
5:14>> beginning, I was on my way to Roso this
5:16morning to work in the ER up there.
5:19>> Rosville.
5:20>> Roso.
5:21>> Roso. Okay. I got a phone call from Alex
5:26Alexander
5:28at about 9 9:30 this morning. [snorts]
5:32>> Yeah,
5:33>> yesterday morning.
5:34>> Yeah, yesterday morning.
5:36She had a
5:41a
5:44sorry
5:51at 1:00.
5:55I got St. Paul about 1:40.
5:58So I sat and waited for her to get done
6:00with that.
6:03about 1:55 2 o'clock. She let me in and
6:07we just kind of hung out,
6:10had a couple of beers. She had some
6:13procco
6:18about 7:00, 7:15 maybe that even we just
6:21talked. We had whatever just talked
6:25about 7 7:15 maybe she decided that she
6:28wanted to go out. So, we went to the
6:30Lost Fox bar
6:34and drink there. What was it called?
6:36>> The Lost Fox.
6:38Well, half a block maybe.
6:41>> Okay.
6:46Went there, had a drink, everything was
6:48fine. left after the drink and we went
6:51and met a friend of hers
6:57cuz
6:59that's how I know him. He's a friend of
7:01her boyfriend's or ex best friend I
7:06guess from my understanding and I cannot
7:09remember the name of that bar that we
7:11met in.
7:14Um we were there for a while, had one
7:17drink, talked with him
7:21and he had said that her
7:25again on and off boyfriend was at I want
7:30to say camp bar.
7:36So we went there
7:40and again it was fine. We walked in. I
7:43sat down on one side of the bar. She
7:45walked across,
7:47sat on the flip side of me, and her
7:50boyfriend was here and was there like he
7:52was at the bar.
7:54And
7:56he had come up, started talking with
7:58her, things got a little bit heated. And
8:01so
8:03I
8:04know when I got over here, got up,
8:07walked around and kind of stepped in
8:09between him and he punched me.
8:12There was a altercation
8:14fall to the floor.
8:16Um
8:18I think a bartender, one of the bouncers
8:21pulled him up and kicked him out of the
8:22bar and he left and that was
8:26sat for an hour.
8:35I had a drink
8:37and then walked home to her place.
8:42Um,
8:45given everything that had happened, I
8:48had a concealed carry for it and I did
8:53had that on not at the bar, but I had
8:55had that on prior to when I got to her
8:57place initially.
9:00I had taken that off and I just put it
9:02in a backpack. I was just sitting on my
9:05couch and just sitting kind of
9:09seal it up that way.
9:11Um,
9:13after all of this had happened, we went
9:14back to her apartment
9:17roughly 2:00, 1:30, 2:00.
9:23She went into my backpack, pull out the
9:25gun,
9:29and cocked it
9:34and held it to her head. And I was
9:37started backing up for that.
9:41And I asked her what she was doing. She
9:43said, "Don't come closer. Just
9:48if you come any closer, I'm going to
9:49pull the trigger." And I was like,
9:50"Okay." And and I don't know where this
9:52came from. It wasn't
9:56I know there had been some issues with
9:57her boyfriend prior to this, but she
10:00seemed fine. You know, I
10:05we were laughing on the way home.
10:08Everything was fine.
10:11And then I kind of as she backed up
10:15towards her bathroom, I kind of followed
10:17her and she then went in and shut the
10:19door and locked it
10:25and I asked her what she was doing and I
10:27heard the pop.
10:31So,
10:33you know, I I tried to get in and my
10:37recollection here is that the door was
10:38locked and I laid a shoulder into it
10:41after I pop opened the door and she was
10:44just
10:51there on the floor.
11:00And honestly, it's ridiculous. I I
11:03I'm medical training. I know what to do.
11:05But in that instance, I didn't know what
11:07to do. There's just a hole in her head
11:12screaming me out. I didn't know.
11:15I tried to hold it. I moved the gun
11:19and then I
11:22when I realized that like obviously
11:24there's nothing I can do at this point
11:26by myself. I got up and for some weird
11:28reason wash my hands and then tried to
11:32find my phone. I couldn't find my phone
11:34so I found her phone and that was when I
11:36called 911.
11:44Okay.
11:51>> [clears throat]
11:52>> Matthew, what were you [snorts] wearing
11:54tonight?
11:55>> Uh, when that incident happened, I was
11:58wearing this.
11:59>> Okay. [snorts]
12:01What were you wearing earlier the night?
12:03>> I had this and a pair of jeans on.
12:04>> Pair of jeans.
12:07>> What was she wearing earlier in the day?
12:10>> The leggings that she had on. Pretty
12:11much what she had on the bathroom floor.
12:13She hadn't changed.
12:15I had taken the jeans off and put put
12:18shorts on.
12:19>> Okay.
12:19>> We were going to go to bed.
12:23>> Okay.
12:28So, you said that the door was locked.
12:32>> Yeah. The bathroom door.
12:34>> Yeah.
12:34>> Correct. Yeah.
12:36>> My understand Yeah. I tried to open. I
12:38don't remember it being
12:41I don't remember a being able to open
12:44it.
12:44>> Okay. Um
12:46>> I did open my shoulder.
12:48>> Okay.
12:50>> Let's just rewind a little bit. Tell me
12:51about your guys's relationship here and
12:53Alex.
12:56>> It's been ongoing for about two years.
12:59I'm married obviously not to her.
13:04Uh, she was a nurse at the clinic that I
13:05worked at.
13:07>> Where was that at?
13:08>> At Fergus.
13:11>> In Fergus Falls.
13:14>> I guess there we had kind of a physical
13:18relationship to start with and when
13:19things kind of
13:24kind of escalated. She moved to
13:29Arizona and we kept in touch and count.
13:32>> Okay. I just heard a couple times.
13:35And then
13:37in end of July, the end of August of
13:40this year, she decided that she wanted
13:42to move back to Minnesota.
13:45So I flew down there, rented a truck for
13:48back
13:49and
13:53yeah, our relationship is
13:58not sound like a problem from that
14:00standpoint, but I care about her.
14:02>> Okay.
14:03>> I really do.
14:03>> Y
14:05did she know about
14:08that you were married?
14:08>> Oh, absolutely. That was absolutely
14:10known from the get go. [clears throat]
14:14>> [snorts]
14:15>> Just curious, does she have family?
14:17>> She does.
14:17>> Around here.
14:19>> She here.
14:22>> Mary Joe and Jim Penn. [clears throat]
14:26>> I have my phone and me. I don't
14:28actually.
14:29>> That's her mom and dad.
14:30>> Mary Joe.
14:32>> Where do they live? [snorts]
14:35>> It's a suburb of the of the cities here.
14:37I don't know exact.
14:38>> You know what it starts with? Honestly,
14:44they just built a house.
14:47>> What's it?
14:49>> Maybe.
14:50>> Same last name.
14:51>> Yeah. [clears throat] I
14:55>> um
14:57So, let's go back to the [clears throat]
14:59bar.
15:00>> Mhm.
15:01>> And you guys say that you went there
15:02because your ex-boyfriend, what's her
15:04ex-boyfriend's name?
15:05>> Shane.
15:08Has she talked to you before about him?
15:10>> Oh, yeah.
15:11>> Yeah,
15:12>> he has.
15:15I mean, it it
15:18>> I don't want to focus on him because
15:20this is
15:23this is my this is my dad. That should
15:26have been in my car. It should have been
15:29this should have been
15:33but they have had kind of an on and off
15:36relationship maybe two of us
15:41multiple episodes where she's called 5 6
15:44in the morning in the morning whatever
15:51just be her
15:54kind of that she can No.
16:00>> Um, [clears throat]
16:02so you say that she
16:06grabbed your gun out of your bag. Where
16:09was your bag sitting?
16:10>> Sitting on your couch. Love seat at the
16:12end of her.
16:14>> What color bag was it?
16:15>> Black.
16:15>> Black bag.
16:18Uh,
16:18>> that's like
16:20about this big military bag.
16:22>> Okay. And where was the gun?
16:26>> Underneath
16:27my laptop.
16:28>> So fake zipper.
16:30>> Big zipper.
16:30>> Small zipper. Big zipper. Okay.
16:33>> And she knew it was there.
16:34>> Yeah.
16:37Like I said,
16:39once we started drinking, I obviously
16:42not too big on it. I should have just
16:44like I said, I should have put it in the
16:45car,
16:48>> but it didn't. It was it in was just
16:51sitting just
16:52>> in a in a holster.
16:53>> It was in a holster. Okay.
16:55>> So, where did that holster go then?
16:58>> It should be
17:02Oh, I don't know where she cuz she
17:04pulled that out. Whatever she did with
17:06the holster. I don't know what that is.
17:08>> Okay. Did she take the gun the holster
17:11the gun out of the holster before
17:13backing up to go to the bathroom?
17:18I think so.
17:20>> Okay. I guess yeah, you would have
17:21pulled it out. Trying to think. Yeah.
17:25Then she pulled out as she was in the
17:26kitchen. So, it would have been maybe
17:29five or six steps from the bag itself
17:33or I I don't know if she took it off.
17:36She pulled it out the backpack.
17:37>> Okay.
17:38>> Or she took it
17:41as she was backing up. Right. Once
17:43again,
17:44>> how was she holding the gun when she was
17:45backing up to the bathroom?
17:48>> She was She had it down here first and
17:51then she cocked it,
17:55left hand cocked it, but she ended up
17:56holding it to her left temple. That's so
17:59>> Okay.
18:02She left.
18:04>> She's not not So it was weird.
18:07>> Yeah.
18:10>> At least that I know. I don't She's
18:12left-handed.
18:13>> Just curious what because you talked
18:14[clears throat] about what how do you
18:15keep the gun in your holster? Is it do
18:18you keep one in the chamber or
18:20>> No, I don't I don't I'm not that
18:23comfortable.
18:24>> Well, she know
18:26>> she did.
18:29>> So then you just she just backed up and
18:31went into the bathroom and then
18:32>> she went like this and she started
18:34backing up and I said, "Well, what are
18:36you doing?" She's like, "Don't come
18:37closer or I'm going to pull the trigger.
18:40this doesn't make sense. What are you
18:42doing?
18:44And then she kind of kept backing up and
18:45said, "Don't come closer." And then she
18:47went into the bathroom and shut the
18:48door. And like I said, I believe she
18:52locked it cuz I could not get in.
18:54>> Okay.
18:54>> And if I remember right, I mean, I I
18:56know I did lay a shoulder to it was
18:58locked or a big shoulder
19:01after I heard the go off.
19:04>> How long she get in the bathroom,
19:07shut the door? How long until the gun
19:09went off? seconds.
19:12>> Maybe it was fast.
19:15>> So, explain to me when you open when you
19:17got the door open, explain the scene to
19:19me like what how was she laying?
19:22>> She was on her back.
19:24Gun was
19:26hereish.
19:28And I grabbed the gun. I put it on her
19:30chest and I was trying to I don't know.
19:32place that I
19:36I had medical training and like just for
19:39some weird reason I just was like trying
19:41to hold the blood in her head. That made
19:43no sense to me. I didn't know what else
19:45to do. It took about
19:50maybe a minute to realize like I'm not
19:52going to be able to fix this by myself.
19:54Like this was actually really happening.
19:56I think I was just in shock.
20:01And that was when I got up. I quick up.
20:04I don't know why I washed my hands. I
20:06washed my hands.
20:08And then I went to try to find my phone.
20:10I couldn't find my phone. That's when I
20:11grabbed her phone and called 911.
20:16>> How were you able to call 911 on her
20:18phone? She
20:19>> No, I don't. She just It's just a
20:22emergency. There's that emergency button
20:26pass. And you said the gun was just her
20:31hand.
20:32>> Yeah, it was like she had just
20:35like she had just fallen backwards and
20:38the gun was right there and I just
20:40instinctively grabbed it and kind of put
20:42it right here and
20:47like I said, I don't know. I tried to
20:49hurt I remember it just hurt right my
20:51ball didn't look right. handle.
20:55And again, I work in an ER or like an
20:57ER,
20:58but I just didn't I didn't know what to
21:01do.
21:01>> Did you hear after the gunshot went
21:03Sorry. Did you hear after the gunshot
21:05went off? Did you hear like a bump or
21:07anything? Like she fell? Oh no, I just
21:09heard the pop. And I think
21:13at that point, my brain just said like I
21:16knew what had happened and I hoped to
21:18God that she had just shot into the
21:20ceiling or into the wall or something
21:22stupid, but I didn't hear I thought I
21:25didn't hear it fall backwards. I didn't
21:26hear anything, but I just that was when
21:29I laid the shoulder into the door and
21:31tried to get that open.
21:33>> Okay. And then you said that you did
21:36that. You did you try CPR on her or
21:41I didn't I didn't I again I know better.
21:46But again it there was a a big hole in
21:49the left side of her head
21:51just
21:52>> the cops mentioned he said something
21:53that they [snorts] thought she was
21:55breathing and you tried to do some
21:56>> there was like chain stokes. What do you
21:58think? There were a couple of gasps that
22:01I noticed and
22:04I just I wanted to call 911 because
22:06honestly doing CPR at that point
22:10to the head I don't know if that would
22:12have been any good anyway. So I
22:15once I realized that this had actually
22:17happened
22:19calling that was that was primary
22:25but again yeah I don't I don't know why
22:27I didn't disappear
22:29I was a child I truly
22:35>> you guys weren't arguing or anything
22:36there's no fight with you too
22:38>> no between
22:39>> you guys didn't get in fight at the bar
22:40or anything besides ex
22:42>> I mean her ex hit me.
22:44>> Yeah.
22:44>> And she was pissed at him about that.
22:46No, we things were great. We walked back
22:50>> from the bar. Things were great. We were
22:53laughing. She was happy. I This was so
22:55out of the blue. I had no idea what she
22:58was thinking. I just
23:02things were fine. It was a good night.
23:05>> So, you've known her for two years. Does
23:07she have any past history?
23:09She tried
23:12one time she tried to overdose on dazip.
23:17She took a bottle with two milligrams.
23:19>> What was that?
23:21>> About a year and a half.
23:25She called me on that. She woke up the
23:27next morning just fine, but she had to
23:28take me probably about 180 of that.
23:33Woke up the next morning just fine.
23:36that said, you know, I'm never going to
23:38do that again.
23:40Was not smart.
23:43>> Does your family know about you?
23:45>> Does my family
23:46>> Does her family know about you?
23:48>> They do, but they don't know about our
23:50relationship.
23:51>> You know, your friends?
23:52>> Yeah, friends. They know that I've
23:54helped her.
23:57>> Okay.
24:03>> So, then you
24:06You put the gun your chest when you were
24:09>> Yeah, it was there and I just grabbed it
24:12again. Don't know why, but just it kind
24:15of put it right there. I was trying to
24:17figure out
24:19I don't know it,
24:22like I said, I I work in ER. I see that
24:25stuff. But this was such a surreal
24:29experience for me. I just like can't
24:33it didn't seem real.
24:34>> Yeah.
24:36>> I I don't know why I did what I did. I
24:39don't know why I didn't see the art
24:42I climbed down was that was
24:46the important thing to me because I knew
24:48I couldn't
24:51fix them.
24:53>> So,
24:55um we were there but there was a lot of
24:58blood. Do you just did you just get
24:59blood everywhere in your hands?
25:01>> No. What I mean just on the hands when I
25:04was trying to turn her head and trying
25:06to my initial instinct was just hold the
25:11handle hold left side of her head.
25:16And then when I turned her head I saw
25:18her right eye. I saw everything else.
25:22I tried to see if there was exit wound
25:24on the right side of that. I don't know
25:26what good that was going to do me at the
25:28time, but I was trying to figure out
25:30exactly what I don't know. I trying to
25:32figure out what had happened. I don't
25:33know.
25:35>> Yeah. And once I realized what was going
25:37on, I got up and I just quick rinsed my
25:39hands off your sink and went to
25:42>> What sink? And
25:43>> they did in the bathroom.
25:44>> In the bathroom. Okay. Did you just
25:45rinse out? Did you use soap?
25:47>> I didn't use soap. I'll just rinse just
25:50>> Okay.
25:52I honestly can't even tell you how long
25:54I tried to like stuff there. It was
25:57probably 10 seconds,
25:59>> right? And then you called the police
26:00right away.
26:01>> I got up and called the police. Yeah.
26:03>> So from
26:05the time that you heard pull the trigger
26:07to the time that the police arrived.
26:12>> Yes.
26:14So pulled the trigger went in
26:19maybe
26:21two minutes
26:24to two minutes rinsed my hands off call
26:27911
26:30and they said you need to go down and
26:32let them in. So then I took the elevator
26:34down maybe I don't know 8 minutes seven
26:38minutes.
26:42>> And you said when you guys went to the
26:44bar you guys sat on opposite ends of the
26:46bar
26:47>> to start with because her boyfriend was
26:48there.
26:49>> But you guys knew that her boyfriend was
26:51there in the first place.
26:52>> Yeah.
26:52>> So why did you guys go?
26:54>> She didn't want I don't know. She wanted
26:56to
26:59>> She's laughing.
27:01>> The kind of person that ruffles
27:02feathers.
27:03>> Yeah.
27:03>> Okay.
27:04>> And I sat on the opposite end because I
27:07didn't She told me to sit there and we
27:10didn't want to do anything real crazy.
27:12But when she went around and he came
27:15over and they started arguing
27:19and I came around, they kind of jumped
27:21in between.
27:23>> What time was that?
27:31So at some point were you going to go
27:32sit next to her at the bar? I guess I'm
27:34kind of
27:34>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean initially Okay.
27:37The second they started
27:39>> Yeah. I I would have absolutely gone
27:41over there at some point, but the second
27:43they started talking and he was
27:45>> getting himself hurt and I went over and
27:47stood in between them and that's when he
27:51>> at least from what I understand talking
27:53to people. He hit me cuz I don't really
27:56remember much of it. I just kind of woke
27:58up on the floor.
27:59>> Um and then you guys just walked home.
28:01>> Yeah. So we sat for about 45 minutes and
28:04then we walked home after that.
28:06>> Okay.
28:08>> Back to the Yeah. What was the plan when
28:10you found out he's at the bar? What's
28:12What did she tell you she wants to do or
28:14what do you tell her you do?
28:16>> Well, she just I didn't say anything,
28:18but she found out that so her friend at
28:21the second bar that we were at, I can't
28:22remember what the name. Yeah, I can't
28:24remember what the name of the bar was.
28:25>> Was it Was it in the vicinity?
28:28>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a walk. It was
28:30maybe a
28:32four block walk.
28:35>> Can you describe it to me?
28:39was pretty empty. Had
28:41um it was big, but there wasn't a lot in
28:44there. They had some pool tables,
28:47pinball machines. There was a hockey
28:49table. We're actually going to play
28:50hockey like the
28:54only,
28:56you know, it's got like five or six
28:57little slides and you turn like guys
29:00have sticks.
29:01>> Okay, great.
29:04>> Sorry. So to answer his question, so why
29:09don't can you draw the bar
29:13>> the um where you guys are sitting at the
29:16bar?
29:16>> Uh when we the one that we camp
29:18>> the third camp. Yeah. Okay. So I think I
29:22believe the doors in kind of this area.
29:24There's a bar that does this.
29:27>> I sat here. She walked around sat here.
29:31Her ex-boyfriend was here. And then he
29:34came over. where he was talking to a
29:35girl and then he came over and they
29:38started arguing and I came
29:40[clears throat] around and stood in
29:41between.
29:42>> Okay, does that make sense?
29:44>> So I guess like
29:48>> there
29:51she just I again she is
29:55>> somebody who likes to she was somebody
29:57who likes to run. I really didn't want
30:00to go and desire to go. I want to just
30:04go back to your place and be done with
30:06it. But
30:06>> okay,
30:07>> she was like, "Let's do this." I'm going
30:10to go and
30:11>> But then why is it What's the reason
30:13that she directs you to sit opposite?
30:16What did she say?
30:18>> I just I thought we were going to sit.
30:20She didn't tell me to sit there. I just
30:22sat. Then she kept walking and I didn't
30:26I didn't want to cause a scene, so I
30:28just kind of stayed there to just kind
30:30of see what would happen. and she's went
30:33to the other side and like I said the
30:35second that he came up and they started
30:36arguing that's when I got up and went
30:39around and kind of stood in between.
30:43Is it weird? I guess for me being a
30:46female
30:47>> and my ex-boyfriend with my new
30:49boyfriend already fighting with my
30:51ex-boyfriend the same day.
30:54Why do I want to go to the bar with
30:56>> I don't know. I don't know.
30:58>> See, and I'm just
31:00>> Yeah. having a couple cocktails. You
31:02guys are like, "Hey, let's go to this
31:04bar and show that we're together."
31:05>> I think Yeah. I don't know if her So,
31:09Gus is [snorts]
31:12used to be really good friends with her
31:14boyfriend, ex-boyfriend.
31:16>> Okay.
31:17>> So, he had said that, you know, she's
31:19been talking with him about, you know,
31:22stuff that had been going on.
31:25Um, yeah. He had just said that he was
31:27at this bar.
31:28>> Okay. And like I said, she is
31:34she's very level-headed when she's sober
31:37and very impulsive and
31:42just we're going to have fun with this
31:45when she's not if that makes sense.
31:48>> How old is Shane?
31:51>> I think he's around early 30s, 33, 34.
31:54Black, white, Asian,
31:56>> white.
31:56>> Okay.
31:58>> Bartender.
31:59>> Bartender. Where at?
32:01>> Um, I believe he is trying to get a job
32:05at
32:08the airport.
32:10>> Does he work right now? Do you have a
32:13>> wish has a job?
32:16>> Do you know where he stayed at?
32:18>> Yeah, his apartment is actually two
32:19buildings from
32:24So far Loft, you've got the CHI field
32:28here.
32:30This is
32:32>> sense. It's like two buildings.
32:35>> Okay.
32:42>> Question. So
32:46back up a little bit to the apartment.
32:48At one point you tell us maybe you went
32:50for a walk. You guys had a little
32:52argument in the He went for a walk
32:56of the apartment maybe.
32:58>> No. Oh,
33:01>> maybe.
33:02>> Yeah. Or no, you went for a walk by
33:04yourself.
33:05>> Oh, no. I went to buy a small little
33:07bottle of vodka at one point. She was on
33:10the phone with somebody and
33:11>> Well, that was not after you came by for
33:13>> No, that was prior to prior to the bars.
33:15Yeah, after the bar. We didn't No,
33:18everything was fine.
33:19>> And that bag that you're talking about
33:21that the guy was kept Was
33:24that the one that we were? Okay.
33:28>> And when you Sorry, I'm kind of jumping.
33:30Just trying to keep when you open the
33:32door.
33:34>> Um,
33:37where's her I know you said she was
33:39laying on her back. Where how how was
33:42she falling in the bathroom or on her
33:43back? She Where was her head at as
33:46opposed to her feet?
33:47>> Uh, feet were closer to the door. The
33:50head was right by her.
33:57Yeah, it was like she was back to the
33:59bathroom, shut the door, and then that
34:02was it.
34:04>> So, she still has
34:07the gun in her hand and then
34:11you took the gun out, right? You put it
34:13on her chest.
34:14>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why I grabbed
34:15it, but it just I just didn't
34:20>> show us where her body was.
34:24>> Yeah. So,
34:25>> this is the shower.
34:27>> So, this is the door here. It was like
34:31some some like this.
34:33>> We just do a stick.
34:35>> Yep.
34:35>> Yeah.
34:36>> So, when you nudge the door,
34:40>> I didn't hit her. That was the thing. I
34:42didn't hit her foot that I know of.
34:43Like,
34:44>> okay.
34:44>> I think she was back enough far when I
34:46mean I like I said I
34:50after I heard the gun go off I hit the
34:51door pretty hard. So, it's possible that
34:54I did hit her foot
35:02and
35:04I don't know if we covered this. You
35:06told the officers that you did CPR here.
35:10Um, no I didn't do I if I did that was
35:13incorrect CPR. Like I said, I tried to
35:19I just did that
35:21stupid tried to blood. Like I said, my
35:24brain wasn't working correctly when I
35:26saw what I saw cuz I I didn't
35:32believe that.
35:38Mr.
35:41>> They mentioned that you and maybe this
35:42is part of the CPR or what they
35:44mentioned that you told the officers
35:46when they outside the door that you you
35:48put your finger in the hole since it's a
35:50large hole to find there was an exit.
35:52>> No, I didn't put my finger in there. I
35:53literally just clamped my hand over it
35:55and then I kind of turned her head to
35:57see if there was an exit window again. I
35:58don't know what your dad would have done
36:00me,
36:01>> but I just
36:05>> so this
36:08>> Matthew, let me just ask this and I'm
36:10not judging
36:11>> any means, but
36:14>> did she ever
36:19>> want to tell your wife? Like, did you
36:21guys fight about that ever?
36:24>> Cuz you have how many kids?
36:25>> Four.
36:26>> Four kids. What are the ages of them?
36:28>> 12, 15, 12, 9, five, 12. So,
36:33>> yeah.
36:36>> Yeah. No, I mean,
36:39no. No, we have never had
36:43any significant arguments. I She I've
36:47been opening with her and honest with
36:49her. She has no honest with me. We
36:52understand our relationship. This is not
36:56Again, I I know how this looks.
36:59>> I'm not judging you.
37:01>> I know you're not. I know you're not. Um
37:07there is
37:11>> I don't I loved her. She loved me.
37:13>> What's your wife's name?
37:20Middle name.
37:28didn't see last name. Um,
37:33what's your phone number? I'm not
37:34calling you right now.
37:44>> Does Does she have any type of trans?
37:52She
37:55I I don't know if she has any gun with
37:58her family. If her dad, you know, they
38:00use a gun.
38:04I know she has
38:06been with another guy in the apartment
38:08building who has multiple guns
38:11and she's
38:13not learned how to use them as far as
38:15shooting goes, then I know I'll put this
38:17in.
38:19And just keep it on that kind of thing
38:20just because um we have a couple
38:22questions I just because which people do
38:25things that are I'm not judging if
38:27washing your hands or nothing but did
38:29you [clears throat] happen to wash the
38:30gun at all?
38:31>> No.
38:32>> No.
38:33>> You happen to clean up her hands or her
38:35at all?
38:38>> No. I I don't know why I washed my
38:40hands. Like I said, I don't know if I
38:42was I don't know why I did that.
38:46Worried about getting on the phone.
38:48I have no idea.
38:52I I just
38:55It's weird. I don't I don't know why.
38:58>> There was a couple uh
39:03damage some damage to the closet
39:06directly from the bathroom.
39:07>> That was from [ __ ]
39:10>> When did that?
39:11>> Uh one of them happened this morning.
39:13The other one happened maybe three or
39:15four weeks ago.
39:21Okay.
39:23>> Um, this is all procedure stuff that we
39:25always do at all shootings and stuff
39:27like that. Um, but we got to ask you to
39:30just because you were there. Um,
39:33it doesn't matter if you wash your hands
39:34or not. We still can perform these chem
39:36residue test. Are you okay with us doing
39:38that in your hands?
39:55Is there anything else you need to tell
39:57us about the night or anything that you
40:00can remember?
40:01>> No,
40:03it's fine. It was a good night.
40:09I don't know where
40:11it was fine.
40:13I mean apart from
40:16the one incident that camp that was it
40:20and even after that they kicked him out
40:23and we sat for 45 minutes [snorts] to an
40:26hour and things were a good time.
40:31with a good time while you
40:35good time going up into her apartment
40:37and all of a sudden just no idea where
40:42>> How did she know that the gun was in
40:43your backpack? She saw me through
40:53just concealed carry to get in the
40:56backpack.
40:56>> She'll
40:59just the car
41:02>> in her apartment. There's a couple
41:04jackets. Is it There's one There's
41:08There's one on each on a chair. Which
41:10one is yours? Or are these
41:12>> the green one with the fur?
41:13>> Okay. And then around there's a purse
41:16and then another
41:18gray looking backpack.
41:20>> Yeah. So that's my my that's my other
41:22backpack.
41:23>> Okay. [snorts]
41:24>> So I I was supposed to be uh in Roso
41:29today. I said working.
41:30>> Yeah. That Yeah. I canceled that. Came
41:34down here.
41:37>> Um so my packing was all kind of place.
41:41So my
41:44suitcase
41:56step
42:04All right. Okay.
42:12>> Um, do you hear?
42:15>> No.
42:20>> Just a little bit.
42:22>> You don't need anything right now, man.
42:24>> All right.
42:26[snorts]
42:37reports.
42:38>> Uh I don't need the uh officer.
42:40>> Thanks.
42:41>> Okay. I'm not asking intense, but do you
42:44want anything?
42:45>> You don't need a coffee.
42:47>> Good.
42:47>> Okay.
42:56>> So, just a couple. We just got a couple
42:59follow-up questions cuz like we said
43:01stuff like this we just really need, you
43:04know, for her family of course. We just
43:06really need answers for her family and
43:07we know that we want to tell her family
43:10exactly what happened and just be honest
43:12with her with them. Um,
43:17so let just the timeline I just want to
43:20go over I know we've gone over it like a
43:22hundred times. I just want to go over it
43:23again with you. So you call
43:28the police.
43:30You hear the You hear the pop.
43:32>> Mhm.
43:33>> And then you
43:35go in there.
43:36>> Yep.
43:37>> Okay. Go over that with me again.
43:39>> Okay. Um Yeah. So I I hear the pop. I
43:45lay a shoulder in the door to open it up
43:48cuz I tried to open it prior to um
43:52and I see her on the floor and there's
43:54blood everywhere.
43:58So I went down and like I said I moved
44:00the gun.
44:03Why?
44:05And
44:06>> she picked up you said put it on her
44:07chest.
44:08>> Yeah. I just grabbed it and kind of you
44:10know and I just tried to put pressure on
44:13the hole in the left side of her head
44:16again. I don't know why
44:19um wasn't going to lose anybody but you
44:22know maybe
44:26two minutes of that kind of
44:28>> you know and then I got up put her into
44:31my hands and then went and got tried to
44:33find my phone like I said grabbed her
44:35phone cuz I couldn't hold it.
44:38>> Um so
44:42I mean I don't know
44:44somewhere between 4 and 8 minutes
44:46probably. Okay.
44:47>> By the time everything was said
44:49>> by the time like the cops you there and
44:50stuff.
44:51>> Yeah. But I mean they were there really
44:53fast. Okay.
44:55>> And then when you
44:59the gun was
45:02on the left side of her,
45:05>> was it by the Was it on the floor by the
45:08toilet or where was
45:09>> it? Was just kind of here
45:12by this area.
45:13>> Okay. So, like by the bed and it was on
45:15the ground.
45:15>> Yep.
45:16>> Okay. And you
45:18you've clearly had gun training and
45:22stuff, correct? Okay. And then you took
45:24the gun and you just put it right here
45:25in her chest.
45:26>> Yeah. Yeah. Again, I don't know why.
45:29Just to
45:29>> Yeah. No.
45:30>> Keep track of where it was and what was
45:31going on.
45:32>> And then where was her hand then? When
45:34you put the gun on her chest, her hand
45:35was back here to the left.
45:37>> Remember, it Yeah.
45:38>> Okay. And then I guess what more
45:42you told the responding officers that
45:44you gave her CPR and you started, you
45:48know, life saving?
45:49>> Oh, I didn't I didn't do chest
45:50compressions. Like I said, it was more
45:52just
45:54That makes sense.
45:56>> I I I was just trying was
45:59>> Yep. Yep.
46:01So,
46:04>> cuz I knew that Yeah. I knew that wasn't
46:06going to do like it wasn't going to do
46:08any good chest.
46:10People just need to get here.
46:12>> Yeah. No, understandable. Um the reason
46:15why we are asking about the timeline so
46:17much and you know here doctor
46:19>> um the blood
46:22in around her on the toilet in the sink
46:26was it was dry already.
46:28>> Okay.
46:29>> When the police got there. So, we're
46:31wondering maybe is the timeline maybe
46:33just a little bit off because I mean,
46:35you know, as a doctor that
46:37>> blood doesn't dry that quick and doesn't
46:39start flaking or anything. And by the
46:42time the the police officers arrived,
46:44>> they noticed that it was dried already.
46:46And
46:46>> yeah, I mean, I
46:49it's It's possible that I got up and
46:52went out and then came back and then
46:53went out again. I mean, it was not long.
46:56It was not long.
46:58>> Um,
47:00I'm going to be honest. I I just
47:04despite all of the training that I have,
47:07>> I
47:09I didn't know what to do.
47:13It's It's a lot easier when it's not
47:18just
47:18>> I mean, you think it's possible maybe
47:20passed out at all?
47:23>> It wasn't. I don't think it would have
47:24been long
47:25>> cuz that blood was starting to
47:26coagulate.
47:27>> It was It was that Okay. Yeah. I I mean,
47:32like I said, I may have gone It's
47:34possible that I went out to try to find
47:36a phone and then came back and then was
47:37doing stuff and then went out to get the
47:39phone again. And I I mean I don't think
47:44I passed out at all to that. Um pretty
47:47sure I did, but it wasn't long. It was
47:51not long. It was not a long long time.
47:56>> Um
47:58>> Okay. And then
48:01so I'm just I I'm again just kind of
48:04going back and forth here, but so
48:07you did not do CPR. You didn't accept to
48:10do this, grab her head, which is fine.
48:13>> Whatever.
48:14>> You took the gun
48:16before you did this. Put your hand on
48:19her. You took the gun and put it on her
48:21chest. Correct. Okay. And then I guess
48:25I'm
48:28You put the gun on her chest, but then
48:30when the police showed up, her hand
48:34was back on the gun.
48:35>> Was back on the gun.
48:36>> Yeah.
48:36>> Yeah. I don't I
48:38>> did you maybe ask like before you you
48:41got up and you know washed your hands
48:43and went to grab a phone maybe you
48:45grabbed her hand and put it back on the
48:46gun.
48:47>> I know I was trying to move her around a
48:49lot.
48:49>> Okay.
48:50>> Um it's possible that I move her hand
48:52over there. So
48:53>> Okay. Okay.
48:54>> It's possible.
48:55>> Okay.
48:58>> Like I said just that
49:02>> Yeah. So, I know that you guys had
49:05cocktails
49:06>> throughout the day.
49:07>> Um,
49:10you told the police when they arrived
49:13that you and Alex got into an argument.
49:17Either it was at the bar,
49:20>> but I believed it was at the apartment.
49:22>> Alex and I never did.
49:24>> Okay.
49:24>> We were never in an argument.
49:25>> So, you guys never like maybe
49:27>> No.
49:28>> You didn't have to go for a little walk
49:29to cool down?
49:30>> No.
49:31>> Okay. Her and I never had an argument.
49:33>> Okay. That's what And again, you have a
49:36lot going on in your head, but you told
49:37the responding officers that you guys
49:40>> got a little bit [clears throat]
49:41argument.
49:42>> No, she and I once we got back to the
49:44apartment
49:47from the third bar.
49:50Everything was great. We didn't get to
49:52argue there at all. I mean I mean there
49:56was all of the stuff with her boyfriend
49:58at the bar. Yeah.
50:00>> What happened then? When you get back to
50:02the apartment, everything's great,
50:03right?
50:04>> Yeah. We spent like 45 minutes. I had no
50:07idea. That's the weirdest thing.
50:09>> So, what are you doing for that 45
50:10minutes?
50:10>> We were just sitting at the bar.
50:12>> No, I'm sitting at the apartment when
50:13she before she grabs the car.
50:14>> Oh, that was literally within 5 minutes
50:17of us getting back home.
50:19>> She just goes into the bag.
50:20>> Yep. Yep. I have no idea
50:24where it came from, why she did what she
50:27did. It made
50:30Zero sense, man. Zero sense.
50:33>> Did Did And I know you said she saw you
50:35take it out. So, did you have it with
50:36you and then take it out when you got
50:38back from the bar?
50:39>> No. No. No. No. No. When we started when
50:42I got to her place at
50:46that was like 1:55 2:00 when she was
50:49done with her interview.
50:51I had my luggage and we went up to her
50:54room and I had a fourpack of beer and a
50:57bottle of procco or a couple bottles of
50:59procco.
51:02The second we opened any alcohol that
51:05came out.
51:06>> Where do you keep the gun? It's right
51:08here on the right. Yeah. Right.
51:12>> And did she watch you put that gun in
51:13the backpack?
51:14>> Okay.
51:16>> Okay.
51:17She went in the car. I always just
51:24>> So, Matthew, I'm just kind of having a
51:27hard time here. Um,
51:31having a hard time with kind of the the
51:34timeline in your story a little bit. Um,
51:36and the reason why I'm having a hard
51:37time with it is because you say that
51:40you, and again, I'm not judging
51:44>> at all, but you have this girlfriend for
51:47the past 2 years, and then you have a
51:50family on the side. Okay? Again, not
51:52judging, but you come down, you're go
51:56to, you're supposed to go to Roso to
51:58work in the ER. She calls you in a panic
52:00because Shane just her heard you say, "I
52:03will cancel my work at the ER and I will
52:06come to you. Do you need me to?" She
52:07says, "Yes."
52:08>> You drive all the way down.
52:11>> I will.
52:11>> And then Yeah.
52:12>> And then she calls you and says, "Okay,
52:16Shane came back. He gave me the keys."
52:18>> Yeah.
52:18>> And you still want me to come down? She
52:20says, "Yes." You come down there. You
52:22wait in the in your car while she does
52:25her interview. Right.
52:26>> I got there about 1:30.
52:28>> Yep. And then you guys go inside after
52:31she gets done with your interview. You
52:32go to the apartment, you guys have some
52:34beers or cocktails or whatever at like
52:361:55, 2:00.
52:38>> Mhm.
52:39>> Then you guys go to the Last Fox, right?
52:42>> The Last Fox. Yeah.
52:43>> Yep. And then you guys go there around
52:457ish.
52:47And then after that, then you guys go
52:49meet Gus cuz Gus tells you
52:53what. You guys go meet Gus
52:55>> bar. I don't know where it was.
52:56>> Yep. To some bar. Gus tells you guys
52:59there that Shane is at camp.
53:04So, I don't know if it's the cocktails
53:06telling you to do this or what, but you
53:08guys decided it's a really good idea to
53:09go to camp. But you But, and I
53:12understand that, but you coming down
53:13here from Fergus Falls.
53:16You didn't say this is a bad idea. Let's
53:19not go there.
53:20>> I did.
53:21>> So, you did tell her that.
53:23>> So, then you guys go to camp. And it's
53:25why I sat opposite of her when she said
53:27I I really
53:29didn't want there to be any.
53:31>> But I thought I thought you guys walked
53:34in together and you sat there and then
53:36she walked around and you said you
53:38didn't know that she was walking around
53:39there. You just
53:40>> No, I just sat down. Yeah. I was going
53:41to sat I sat down. I thought he's over
53:44here. We're going to sit down here and
53:46she kept walking around and I just
53:47stayed there. Yeah. So it wasn't
53:50>> But you didn't know where he was. You
53:53said
53:53>> no. Well, when I walked in, I saw him.
53:55>> Okay.
53:55>> Absolutely.
53:56>> But now, you said that you didn't want
53:58to sit with her because he was going to
54:00be there. But you told us earlier that
54:02you got there and you sat here thinking
54:04she's going to sit there, but then she
54:06walked around,
54:07>> right? So, I was thinking we were going
54:10to sit opposite the bar where he was. I
54:13sat down. She walked around. I didn't
54:15follow her.
54:16>> Okay.
54:16>> Because I didn't want there to be any
54:18kind of weird
54:19>> Okay.
54:20>> Well, what did you think was going to
54:21happen? You know, like I mean, you know
54:24that he's going to be pissed
54:27>> and you know he's going to go up to her
54:29>> and as you said as soon as you saw her
54:31go up to her, you walked around and
54:32that's when he punched you in the face,
54:34right?
54:34>> Correct.
54:35>> So he punched you in the face around a
54:37bunch of people.
54:38>> Yep.
54:39>> And
54:40>> you went down
54:42>> and then you blacked out a little bit.
54:44>> Yeah. All of a sudden I was just on the
54:46floor. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know
54:48if he was on the floor with me or what
54:49had happened, but he eventually got
54:51kicked out.
54:53>> And then you get up and you guys and
54:55again, I'm just I'm just telling
54:57everything that you've told us. Yeah.
54:58>> You get up and you guys hang out there
55:00for like 45 minutes. Like nothing
55:01happened.
55:02>> We moved down the bar. Yeah. I went to
55:04the bathroom and I kind of looked things
55:05up like my jaw still hurt somewhere. He
55:07hit me.
55:08>> Yeah.
55:09>> But it wasn't like I was bleeding or
55:12anything crazy. He got kicked out.
55:14Everybody was done. that was posing, you
55:16know, issue for her.
55:18>> Mhm.
55:19>> And so it was Yeah, we just kind of
55:21waited there sad we had drink because
55:24honestly I figured he was probably just
55:26hanging outside waiting for us.
55:28>> I guess like my thing is if that
55:30happened to me, my boyfriend and I would
55:32be like, "What in the hell was that?"
55:34You know, but you say you guys are fine.
55:36>> Yeah.
55:36>> And then you guys and I Yeah. I fine
55:39leave the bar.
55:40>> Mhm. 45 45 minutes to an hour later,
55:43>> you guys walk. You guys are happy.
55:46>> You guys walk. You guys go back to her
55:48place. You guys are all happy. And then
55:50all of a sudden, you guys get there and
55:525 minutes in,
55:54>> she goes in your backpack and grabs a
55:56gun.
55:57>> Yeah.
55:57>> And then you watch her do this.
55:59>> Yeah.
56:00>> And then she takes the gun out of your
56:02holster, which I think it's a snap
56:04holster. I mean, I was literally taking
56:08my jeans off and putting shorts on.
56:10>> I thought you guys did I thought you did
56:11that right away. You said that you did
56:12that.
56:13>> Yeah, I was doing that and she
56:16>> Okay.
56:16>> I mean, if
56:18>> Cuz right where your jeans are, right
56:20where your jeans are laying, your bag is
56:22right there right there.
56:24>> If she's going into your bag, you didn't
56:27snatch it or anything. You just
56:28>> I had no idea what she was doing. Okay.
56:31I,
56:32>> like I said, this this came so flu for
56:35me. I had no idea why she was doing what
56:37she was doing.
56:40>> I Everything was fine.
56:42>> Yep.
56:42>> I [clears throat] mean, obviously the
56:43bar stuff with Shane. It was weird.
56:47>> And, you know, whatever happened
56:49happened. And like I said, we sat for a
56:51while afterwards cuz I figured he was
56:53probably outside. Like I said, I wasn't
56:55with me or anything like that. So,
56:57>> it was
56:59>> crappy. I felt kind of dazed and
57:01confused obviously, but we sat for 45
57:04minutes and everything was fine and we
57:05went back and
57:08yeah, I
57:11when we walked in when I changed between
57:14that moment and her being on the floor
57:17of the bathroom,
57:20that was it was so fast. I had no idea
57:23what she was doing. I don't know why she
57:25pulled the gun. I don't know.
57:28I don't know. I know that. I mean, I I
57:31just I don't know. I know she was sad
57:33and lonely and upset about
57:36Shane. And
57:39>> where did she [ __ ] the gun?
57:41>> It was about mid
57:44I remember right about mid hallway.
57:46>> Okay.
57:47>> Maybe right before the hallway.
57:49>> So, when did she take the gun out of the
57:50holster?
57:51>> It would have been right I think right
57:55Oh, wait.
57:56>> Okay. right when she pulled down.
57:58>> And when she was going in your backpack,
58:00what did you think that she was doing?
58:02>> I wasn't even paying attention to it. To
58:04be honest, I didn't even noticed that
58:05she was doing what she was doing until
58:08>> the gun was here.
58:09>> Okay.
58:11Well, but you had to know cuz she cocked
58:14the gun and then she put it here, right?
58:16>> Yeah. I mean, she was backing up and
58:18then she did that and then Yeah. Yeah.
58:20So, I mean, she pulled it out and
58:22started walking.
58:23>> Yeah. Okay. All right. Um,
58:29this is just what I'm going to say to
58:31you. Yeah.
58:31>> And just because
58:33>> I'm above her age right now. So,
58:36>> this is just me thinking
58:40>> you guys had drinks.
58:43>> You guys that started drinking at two,
58:45>> right?
58:46>> You guys You got punched. You got
58:48humiliated in front of people at the
58:50bar, right?
58:50>> I didn't care about that. And then you
58:52guys go back and you guys start arguing
58:55and she knows where this gun is of
58:56yours.
58:57>> Oh, we didn't we didn't argue.
58:59>> But this is just this is just me. Let's
59:01just act like I was kind of
59:03>> what I'm kind of getting out of it. Cuz
59:05again, I'm about her age.
59:09>> You guys get in an argument and she
59:12knows where that gun is. So, she pulls
59:14that gun and she's pointing it at you
59:16because she's pissed because
59:19you're married. you have four kids.
59:21You're never leaving your wife. You've
59:23made that clear to her because you've
59:24already told us that that you guys, she
59:26knows and you're not going to leave your
59:28wife for her. And she gets upset because
59:30she has to be with this Shane guy and
59:33not you, who is this professional doctor
59:37who's great at his job, and she points
59:40this gun at you, and in self-defense,
59:43you guys are in the bathroom with this
59:45gun, and in self-defense, you grab the
59:47gun and it accidentally goes off.
59:49>> Oh my god. No, no, no, no. She lied.
59:54>> Okay.
59:58So, it wasn't a self-defense thing cuz
1:00:00>> we weren't arguing
1:00:02>> cuz I get it, man. If it is a
1:00:04self-defense thing, I mean, she has this
1:00:06gun.
1:00:08>> She
1:00:08>> because M, let me just let me just say
1:00:10this.
1:00:11>> Yeah.
1:00:12>> You're a doctor.
1:00:13>> Yeah.
1:00:14>> Okay. We wear we do the same thing. We
1:00:16wear gloves, right? So, we don't get
1:00:18blood on our hands or anything. Yeah.
1:00:19>> Right.
1:00:20>> And I have nails.
1:00:23>> He has horrible fingernails. I have
1:00:24nails where I get blood in my nails.
1:00:27Right.
1:00:28>> So you have your head like this with
1:00:31her. You're going to get blood
1:00:33everywhere. Correct.
1:00:34>> I would think so.
1:00:36>> And then you and then you grab her hand
1:00:38and you put her hand back down by the
1:00:41gun and her hand is completely clean.
1:00:43There's her hand looks like my hands.
1:00:46There's no blood under here.
1:00:47>> What? I can't explain that. I can't
1:00:57>> I don't know if you guys
1:00:58>> We didn't argue.
1:01:00>> And if you did No, we did.
1:01:02>> And I understand that you love her.
1:01:03>> We didn't argue. We didn't argue. We
1:01:06didn't argue. She pulled the gun and she
1:01:07was backing away and I was asking her
1:01:09what she was doing and she locked the
1:01:11door in the bathroom.
1:01:12>> Were you trying to grab the gun and you
1:01:14accidentally went off?
1:01:15>> Oh, no. I did not. I I I did not I mean
1:01:20it went off when she was in the bathroom
1:01:22with the door shut.
1:01:26Hand to God.
1:01:27>> I swear by that all day long that door
1:01:30was shut. That gun went off when the
1:01:33door was shut.
1:01:34>> Have you done um Have you done surgeries
1:01:37before?
1:01:38>> No.
1:01:39>> Okay. So, you know when you get blood
1:01:42all over your hands and then you go into
1:01:44the sink and you
1:01:45>> Yeah. or the handle to the sink, right?
1:01:48There should be blood on the handle.
1:01:50There's no
1:01:50>> There's no blood on the handle. The sink
1:01:52>> and there's no nothing in the sink. And
1:01:54the sink is the sink.
1:01:55>> Rinse my hand.
1:01:56>> The sink's dry. There's no water or
1:01:58anything.
1:02:00>> No, I washed my hands in the sink.
1:02:04I did. I I rinsed my hands in the sink
1:02:07>> and I I I was adjusting her face. I I
1:02:13>> [sighs]
1:02:16>> I mean, we were there. We know that
1:02:18there's a lot of blood. You know, I had
1:02:19to step over. I had to be very careful
1:02:21when I was in there.
1:02:22>> There was.
1:02:23>> So, that's I guess that's why we're just
1:02:26kind of, you know, going back and forth
1:02:28with you because for us, I get it. I
1:02:31mean, I get if it was a self-defense
1:02:33thing, I
1:02:33>> self-defense.
1:02:34>> I get it.
1:02:35>> That door was shut. The door was shut
1:02:38when the gun went off.
1:02:40I would never
1:02:43I would be honest with that. I would I
1:02:46understand that this stuff is
1:02:48>> if that's what had happened, I would be
1:02:50honest with that. But that door was shut
1:02:52when they got off. It was shut when they
1:02:55got
1:02:56>> and the reason why we're asking all
1:02:58these questions just some stuff is just
1:03:00not adding up, you know, like the the
1:03:02the dried blood and it took you a bit to
1:03:04call the police.
1:03:06>> There's, you know, your hands there's no
1:03:09>> it's pretty that's a pretty clean Yeah.
1:03:12>> You know, with not using soap. Did you
1:03:15use the soap?
1:03:16>> I don't think so.
1:03:17>> Okay.
1:03:18>> No. And I I maybe they didn't get that
1:03:21blood. I don't know. I I was
1:03:24I I know that I I moved her head. I know
1:03:27that I moved her head.
1:03:30And I thought that I was trying to put
1:03:32pressure on her. I I don't know. I know
1:03:34that I moved her head. I know that I
1:03:36>> Yeah. And I'm not And I'm not joking.
1:03:38>> And I I didn't do CPR.
1:03:41I
1:03:47>> I guess this is just, you know, unless
1:03:49this is your time just to kind of
1:03:53>> some if there's something else going on
1:03:56>> and and I get it, but
1:03:59>> I guess I have a hard time
1:04:02believing things were good after you got
1:04:04knocked out by her ex-boyfriend.
1:04:06>> I didn't care. It was said for 40. You
1:04:07can ask anybody at the bar. Oh, I and
1:04:10and we'll get video and stuff. I don't I
1:04:12don't you know, I'm not
1:04:14>> I honestly don't even know what
1:04:15happened.
1:04:15>> Maybe you played it cool at the bar.
1:04:16>> I stepped in between them and
1:04:20>> then I was on the ground
1:04:22>> and the bartender was like, "Hey, this
1:04:24one's on me." I had a drink. We sat
1:04:26there. I was fine. Was like I I I don't
1:04:29have any like I'm not a big guy. I don't
1:04:32>> Yeah,
1:04:33>> I understand that when I get into a
1:04:34tussle with somebody, chances are I'm
1:04:35probably going to get it. I was standing
1:04:38up for her.
1:04:40>> And another thing too, I guess for with
1:04:43the shirt that you're wearing, you were
1:04:45wearing that when you went up to her and
1:04:48there's nothing on your shirt.
1:04:50>> I know.
1:04:50>> So, I just
1:04:51>> I know
1:04:52>> the questions that we're asking, you
1:04:54know, that they're normal questions to
1:04:55ask. And
1:04:56>> I do
1:04:57>> I want you to I just I just really want
1:04:59you to think about it because right now
1:05:01it's just us and we're just talking. But
1:05:04I really want you to think about,
1:05:07>> did something happen in that apartment
1:05:08that you were protecting yourself
1:05:10because you have a wife and four
1:05:12children?
1:05:12>> No.
1:05:13>> And you didn't want her to shoot you
1:05:14with that gun or
1:05:15>> No. No. No. She never pointed the gun at
1:05:19me. Never.
1:05:23>> It was at her the whole time she went
1:05:25into the bathroom and that door shut.
1:05:30As far as I know, it locked cuz I could
1:05:32not get in. The gun went off. I opened
1:05:36the door and she was there on the floor.
1:05:38>> Okay.
1:05:39>> I
1:05:43after that,
1:05:46I
1:05:47like I said, I I I moved her head. I
1:05:50know I moved her head. I don't know. You
1:05:52know, I thought I was trying to put
1:05:54pressure on. I I moved her head. I saw
1:05:56that her right eye was out
1:05:59and it
1:06:02was just
1:06:06like crap. This is real. She did this. I
1:06:10I like I said I I went in there. I was
1:06:13hoping he was
1:06:16shot this like something. Sorry.
1:06:20>> Yeah.
1:06:23to the point of she's never threatened
1:06:27me with anything as far as
1:06:32>> what tell my wife tell
1:06:35>> what made her grab that gun.
1:06:36>> I don't know.
1:06:38>> Cuz if everything was happy and you guys
1:06:40were walking back from the from the
1:06:42>> everything was happy between us. I don't
1:06:44know. I don't know. I know that for the
1:06:46last two weeks she's been sad and upset
1:06:50with Shane, with work, with a lot of
1:06:52stuff. I know she's been upset. I know
1:06:55she's been sad,
1:06:58>> but every do me a favor.
1:07:00>> Yeah.
1:07:00>> Just hear me out a second.
1:07:01>> Yeah.
1:07:02>> Um [snorts]
1:07:03>> I've been doing this a long time. So is
1:07:05my partner.
1:07:06>> And just like how you know that the job
1:07:08that you do,
1:07:09>> Yeah. uh you're able to
1:07:12know things by your training, by your
1:07:14experience, all that. Okay? Same with
1:07:16us. So, what we we do is we try to
1:07:18follow what where we always look at
1:07:20these cases and where does the evidence
1:07:22take us. Okay? So, we come into these
1:07:24with an open mind and just try to follow
1:07:26what we see, what we're hearing, what
1:07:29you tell the cops, what what the
1:07:32evidence shows, right?
1:07:36I think you're a good guy. I really do.
1:07:38I think you got a family. you got kids.
1:07:39I still think you're a good guy. You
1:07:41were trying to do the right thing. But
1:07:42you have to hear me out and hear my
1:07:44partner up here.
1:07:46You You need to think for a second
1:07:48because she's just giving you a little
1:07:50bit of what we see here so far. And
1:07:52here's a girl that's right-handed that
1:07:55takes a gun left-handed that knows that
1:07:57there's not one in the chamber. So, she
1:07:59[ __ ] one in, puts one in the chamber.
1:08:01Right.
1:08:01>> Yeah.
1:08:04>> You're not f or you're not coming near
1:08:05him because she's got a gun to her head.
1:08:07But then she goes in the bathroom.
1:08:08really doesn't even need to lock the
1:08:09door because she's tells you don't come
1:08:11near me when it's gone. Right.
1:08:13>> Yeah. I
1:08:14>> I'm just telling you evidence-wise,
1:08:17the blood in there was dried for quite
1:08:20some time. I go to a lot of these
1:08:22scenes. A lot of these scenes. And I've
1:08:25been doing hundreds of them. And so is
1:08:27my partner. And I'm telling you, I what
1:08:30I'm trying to do and give this is like
1:08:34cuz how old are you?
1:08:35>> 44.
1:08:36>> 44. We're a little bit closer in age
1:08:38than than my partner is.
1:08:41You still have your whole life ahead of
1:08:43you.
1:08:43>> I know.
1:08:44>> But I'm trying to give you an
1:08:46opportunity
1:08:48to tell us what really happened there
1:08:50because right now I'm I'm telling you
1:08:52right now, Matthew,
1:08:54like I said, the evidence clearly shows
1:08:58what you're saying is not what happened.
1:09:01Okay? I I'm I'm a very straight up
1:09:03person, and I will be straight up with
1:09:05you. And that's why my partner said,
1:09:06"Hey, was there a fight? Did she point
1:09:08this gun at you? Were you struggling
1:09:10over it?"
1:09:10>> She didn't. We
1:09:12>> I'm just telling you right now.
1:09:13>> I know.
1:09:14>> I examined that gun and I've been to
1:09:17hundreds of suicides. Okay. I examine
1:09:20that gun closely. The Emmy does an
1:09:23autopsy, which we will do today.
1:09:25>> They determine close contact. They
1:09:27determine far contact. All of that.
1:09:30Okay. They can tell if it's a close
1:09:32contact. Simple things like the recoil
1:09:35spray going off in the head. Okay,
1:09:38nothing is adding up there. And then
1:09:40like my partner says, you end up putting
1:09:43her hand back on the gun, which is not
1:09:46something
1:09:48that's normal.
1:09:49>> No, I I I don't think anything that I
1:09:51did was normal. I don't know what normal
1:09:54is in that situation. I'm going to be
1:09:56honest with you,
1:09:58>> Matthew. I'm just saying right now I
1:10:00don't want to keep I I don't want to
1:10:02hear any more that to dig yourself into
1:10:05something.
1:10:05>> I'm not digging a hole. You need to.
1:10:07>> That door was shut and that gun went off
1:10:10when the door was shut. I don't know.
1:10:13>> So explain just explain to us then
1:10:16you're a doctor. So explain to us how
1:10:18you are holding her head where there's
1:10:22>> and a lot of blood and then and then you
1:10:25place her hand
1:10:27>> on the gun and then also the hands
1:10:30gripping the gun but there's no blood on
1:10:33her hand.
1:10:34>> I
1:10:34>> and you touched her hand.
1:10:36>> I don't I don't know. Like I said I the
1:10:40gun went off. I went into the bathroom
1:10:43after I was able to open the door.
1:10:48And yeah, there was blood all over the
1:10:50floor. And I I I
1:10:53adjusted her head. I don't know. Like I
1:10:55said, I
1:10:57>> Gun's laying in the blood, right?
1:10:59>> Grab it.
1:11:00>> Gun was up here.
1:11:01>> Is it pulling where the gun was?
1:11:03>> No, it's about right here. So, my
1:11:08recollection is that the gun was not in
1:11:10the blood. I grabbed the gun. I put it
1:11:12here. I moved her hand because I was
1:11:15like I said I was looking. I was
1:11:17looking. I
1:11:19>> Do you know what happens?
1:11:20>> My brain did not comprehend what she had
1:11:23done. I just I I can't like I said.
1:11:31>> Do you know what is handgun every
1:11:33suicide that I've been to?
1:11:36>> Okay.
1:11:37>> Blood.
1:11:37>> Mhm.
1:11:38>> Brain matter.
1:11:39>> Yeah. I looked at that gun.
1:11:42>> I don't know that.
1:11:45>> There's nothing on the seat. There's
1:11:47nothing on the walls.
1:11:48>> That door was shut. The door was shut
1:11:51when the gun went off.
1:11:54Was the door locked? Was it
1:11:57>> Matthew? So, we're going to we're going
1:12:00to talk to
1:12:03a lot of people, right?
1:12:06and and that's fine, but just we're
1:12:09going to talk to a lot of people, okay?
1:12:11Right. We're going to talk to Gus. We're
1:12:13going to talk to Shane. [snorts]
1:12:15Got to talk to your wife.
1:12:17>> We got to talk to everybody. That's why
1:12:19we just want you to tell us
1:12:22if something happened. if she grabbed
1:12:25that gun and
1:12:28was threatening to kill herself, but you
1:12:30that you told us that you love her. You
1:12:33wanted to grab that gun from her and
1:12:35then it accidentally just went off.
1:12:36>> No.
1:12:37>> Okay.
1:12:37>> She shut the door to the
1:12:40>> Explain to me what happened. If you got
1:12:42into a struggle and she took your gun, I
1:12:44don't I just need to know. But I can
1:12:46tell you right now, every piece of
1:12:48evidence in there and everything that
1:12:50you've told so far does not match up.
1:12:53Yeah. I
1:12:56>> And I just don't want to see you go down
1:12:58that road of, you know what, I'm gonna
1:12:59stay I'm gonna stay to this story and
1:13:01see see where it happens because that's
1:13:03where it makes you look terrible. I'm
1:13:04just telling you. Oh my god. And we're,
1:13:08like I said, we're close to the same
1:13:09age. And I'm just telling you right now,
1:13:11you do not want to see you screw your
1:13:13rest of your life up by trying not to
1:13:14tell us the truth because the evidence
1:13:16on these is so clearcut and it's so
1:13:19easy. We have our crime lab out there
1:13:21right now processing everything.
1:13:23>> Yeah.
1:13:23>> And I I guarantee they're going to find
1:13:27a hundred more things that we didn't see
1:13:29initially. I mean, it was enough to the
1:13:32officers at the scene to call us cuz
1:13:34normally on a suicide they're pretty
1:13:35clear time. This one they're like
1:13:37there's a lot of things that are not
1:13:39adding up here.
1:13:41I'm giving you an opportunity.
1:13:44>> Oh my god. now to do the right thing and
1:13:47to not make yourself look like a vicious
1:13:49person
1:13:51because I'm telling you right now this
1:13:53the story that you're saying you can try
1:13:55to say that it's will never fly and it's
1:13:57going to make it a lot worse for you
1:14:00telling you that right now there is no
1:14:03there is another story because the scene
1:14:06tells a completely different story this
1:14:07is not of us just throwing stuff up in
1:14:09the air taking a chance we sat out there
1:14:13and studied that already without the
1:14:15current lab.
1:14:16>> I didn't
1:14:17>> I didn't do this to her.
1:14:19>> She didn't shoot herself. So now it's a
1:14:21matter of you explaining what the
1:14:23situation was.
1:14:24>> This door to the bathroom was shut.
1:14:25>> I don't I I don't You got to look at the
1:14:29situation. You got to look at You got to
1:14:31look at what we're looking at.
1:14:32>> I can't,
1:14:33>> you know, she's been your girlfriend for
1:14:342 years.
1:14:35>> I get it. I get I get
1:14:37>> something happened and you're not
1:14:39>> You're Again, I've said it like other
1:14:40times. You're a doctor. You know blood.
1:14:42You know blood. You know that
1:14:46if you put
1:14:48someone's
1:14:50for starters, I suck at shooting with my
1:14:52left hand because I am right-handed,
1:14:54right?
1:14:54>> So, I'm not going to do something with
1:14:57my left hand.
1:14:58>> She did it with her left hand. It was in
1:14:59her left hand.
1:15:00>> But then to have her left hand
1:15:02completely clean.
1:15:03>> It was in her left hand.
1:15:05>> I can't explain that.
1:15:07>> Even if she did do it to herself, there
1:15:09would be blood on your hand, right?
1:15:11>> I would think so.
1:15:12>> Yeah.
1:15:12>> Yeah. And then if you say what you did
1:15:18and put it back on, there definitely
1:15:21100% should be blood on your hand.
1:15:23Right.
1:15:23>> Yeah.
1:15:24>> Her hand is completely dry. Clean.
1:15:27>> That's what my partner here is saying
1:15:29right now. All this evidence does not
1:15:31add up.
1:15:32>> I can't.
1:15:33>> I just want you to just think. I just
1:15:35want you to think about this. And what
1:15:37what you're
1:15:38>> You're asking me to confess to something
1:15:40I didn't do.
1:15:40>> No, I'm not. I'm asking you just to
1:15:41think about it. today.
1:15:43>> I'm asking you to think about it. I'm
1:15:44asking you to think about your wife and
1:15:47your four kids.
1:15:47>> Oh my god.
1:15:48>> I'm asking you just to think about that.
1:15:50Okay.
1:15:52>> That door to the bathroom was shut when
1:15:54the gun went.
1:15:55>> Okay.
1:15:56>> That is what
1:15:57>> I don't know what happened in the
1:15:58bathroom.
1:15:59>> Matthew, I'm going just tell you this
1:16:00right now. With what you're going at
1:16:02right now,
1:16:06>> I don't have another story.
1:16:07>> Just hear me out. with what you're going
1:16:08at right now, you're going to be sitting
1:16:10in a penitentiary for a long time based
1:16:13on the nonstory that you're telling us.
1:16:15Because I can tell you right now, like I
1:16:16said, I haven't had one case yet that I
1:16:19haven't been able to figure out and that
1:16:21not one that I can't that I wouldn't be
1:16:23telling you this in the interview that
1:16:24we believe
1:16:27what you're saying happened did not
1:16:29happen. And that is not a self-inflicted
1:16:32gunshot wound. And I have never in my
1:16:34whole career have seen anybody put a
1:16:37hand back on top of a gun to make it
1:16:40look like they shot themselves.
1:16:42>> I Okay.
1:16:42>> I I've never
1:16:44>> That's not what I That is not what that
1:16:46was.
1:16:47>> But I'm telling you right now,
1:16:49>> my partner gave you an opportunity. If
1:16:51you want a few minutes to think about
1:16:52this, that's up to you. But I'm telling
1:16:54you right now, that's it's not going to
1:16:56fly. And you're with the story you're
1:16:58giving us right now, you're not going to
1:16:59be getting out.
1:17:01>> Oh my god. I'm just going to give you
1:17:03We're just going to give you some time
1:17:04here just to think. We got to grab that
1:17:06stuff anyway.
1:17:08>> Sorry.
1:17:08>> Yeah. Can I
1:17:09>> Yeah.
1:17:10>> Yeah. I'll do all that, too.
1:17:11>> I just want you to really think think
1:17:13about
1:17:15this whole picture. Think about
1:17:17everything that we discussed the field
1:17:19and family.
1:17:26>> If you decide while we're out here
1:17:28getting this stuff ready and you want to
1:17:29talk something, just tap on the floor.
1:17:31Okay.
1:17:42>> Sorry. change
1:17:56>> so the change that I have and I I was
1:18:00scared
1:18:03after this had happened and I maintained
1:18:07that the shot went off behind sword I
1:18:10was not in the back I will maintain that
1:18:14until the day I die.
1:18:17I did take the gun and I put it in my
1:18:20suitcase. I got scared for a second. I
1:18:24didn't know what was going on. I took
1:18:26the gun. I may have put it in the
1:18:27holster. I don't know if I did or not. I
1:18:29put it in the suitcase, went back,
1:18:33looked to her,
1:18:36and said, "Yep." went back to the
1:18:40suitcase, grabbed the gun, and put it
1:18:41back there. I don't know what my plan
1:18:44was there. I don't know what I was
1:18:45thinking. I got scared for a second, but
1:18:48that's that is what I do.
1:18:50>> Did you clean the gun off?
1:18:51>> I did not clean the gun off.
1:18:52>> So, there's going to be blood inside the
1:18:54holster and blood inside the suitcase.
1:18:56>> There should be if there was blood on
1:18:57the gun, there should be.
1:19:00That's I didn't clean the gun off. I
1:19:04That gun went off behind a closed door.
1:19:06I don't know what happened. She doesn't
1:19:08strike me as somebody who would have
1:19:10done that. I don't know if she
1:19:14I I don't know. I don't know if she
1:19:16slipped. I don't know if she
1:19:17accidentally did it. I don't know.
1:19:18>> What was your
1:19:20>> your point of
1:19:23getting rid of the gun was why?
1:19:25>> I got scared.
1:19:26>> I got scared.
1:19:27>> But scared? Why? I guess
1:19:28>> I don't know. Getting in trouble. I
1:19:30Because I knew it was my gun
1:19:34here. I
1:19:36I got scared
1:19:39and then I knew it was wrong
1:19:43and I put it back in there. It was up
1:19:45here
1:19:46when I got it.
1:19:50>> Well, it must have took you a long time
1:19:52because by the time the officers got
1:19:54there, the blood's dry, the other
1:19:56blood's coagulated. By the time we got
1:19:58there,
1:19:59>> 5 to 8 minutes
1:20:01before I went back, the two times I
1:20:04went back and then called went out to
1:20:06find the phone and called the cops.
1:20:09That's
1:20:12>> Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Going to show you
1:20:14this photo. You know who that is?
1:20:16>> Sure.
1:20:18>> Just in
1:20:29one second. Tell to grab that.
1:20:31>> Yeah.
1:20:35I don't know, Matthew. I just
1:20:39>> I I don't know why I did that with the
1:20:42gun. I don't I don't know.
1:20:44>> Well, you got scared.
1:20:45>> I got scared. But I think again there's
1:20:48more to this that you're telling us
1:20:50because
1:20:51>> because we just explained we just
1:20:53explained to our FSU
1:20:56person in charge what happened and her
1:21:00response was, "Huh?
1:21:07That gun went off behind Cole's door. I
1:21:09was on the other side of the door. I I I
1:21:13>> So right now you're staying
1:21:16to us to to the two people that are
1:21:19doing this investigation, right? The two
1:21:21people that are going to talk to the
1:21:23attorney, our runs county attorney,
1:21:25you're telling us that you did not
1:21:29shoot her.
1:21:30>> I did not
1:21:31>> did not
1:21:31>> did
1:21:32>> shoot her in self-defense.
1:21:33>> In self-defense. [clears throat]
1:21:35>> Okay.
1:21:35>> In anger and aggression. So then you
1:21:38need to think in your head how you're
1:21:40going to tell whoever it is you got to
1:21:42tell about her hand being completely
1:21:45clean with your fingernails cuz we're
1:21:48going to take pictures. There's no blood
1:21:50in there. There's no blood on your hand.
1:21:53There's no blood on that shirt. It's a
1:21:55white shirt. Gray. Light gray. There's
1:21:59no blood anywhere.
1:22:00>> You just got to You just got to think
1:22:02about how you're going to how you're
1:22:04going to
1:22:05>> You got to think of a good one.
1:22:07You got to think of a good story
1:22:09>> because right now, like my partner said,
1:22:11all this evidence is not adding up,
1:22:13right?
1:22:14>> She shoots herself left-handed.
1:22:16>> Then
1:22:18>> now you're you're telling us more truth,
1:22:22which is good. But now you're telling us
1:22:24you got scared. You grabbed the gun.
1:22:26Even though she shot herself behind a
1:22:28closed door, you got scared and you
1:22:30grabbed that gun. You put it back in the
1:22:32buster.
1:22:32>> I opened the door.
1:22:33>> Yeah,
1:22:34>> I opened the door. I mean,
1:22:36>> but if you knew that she shot herself
1:22:37behind a closed door because the door
1:22:39was closed.
1:22:40>> I heard the gun go off. I didn't know
1:22:41that she shot herself until I opened the
1:22:43door.
1:22:45>> Okay.
1:22:46>> I I
1:22:46>> But I I heard the gun go off and that's
1:22:49when I opened the door. Can you I mean,
1:22:52was that door locked? Is there damage to
1:22:55the jam? Is there anything? I lay the
1:22:59shoulder into the door to open.
1:23:00>> To be honest, Matthew, the one thing
1:23:02that I I'm not really concerned about
1:23:03the door. I'm more concerned about the
1:23:05hand because you said that you grab the
1:23:08hand and you put it back. And then what
1:23:09I'm concerned about is is Well, this is
1:23:12this is the gun. You put her hand so
1:23:16it's gripping the gun.
1:23:18>> Oh, I put I just
1:23:20>> I mean, why would you lay her hand back
1:23:21down?
1:23:22>> I was moving stuff. I was moving her. I
1:23:24was looking at her. That's all I know. I
1:23:26I was
1:23:27>> But a dead body, you know, it's limp.
1:23:30>> Mhm. You would just think you'd leave
1:23:32the hands, but instead you take the
1:23:33hand, which you have blood on your hands
1:23:35because you already said that you did.
1:23:37You took the hand and you put it on her.
1:23:39>> I assumed I did. I washed I There's no
1:23:42water in the sink. I washed my hands in
1:23:44that.
1:23:45>> I I believe that you wash your hands. I
1:23:46believe that
1:23:47>> I rinsed my hands in that sink.
1:23:48>> Here what my partner's telling you about
1:23:50right now.
1:23:51>> Think about that. What you have to do
1:23:52that the only reason you're talking
1:23:54about this, G, is because we told you
1:23:56about moving her her hand on top of the
1:23:58gun. No, I what I did was I I don't know
1:24:01if I put her hand on there. Sure, I
1:24:03might have put her hand on there. I was
1:24:04rolling her a little bit. I was looking
1:24:06at the other side of her head. I was
1:24:07looking at one side of her head.
1:24:09>> But now you say that you went and and
1:24:11then you know you grab the gun, you then
1:24:14went back in there. You saw that she's
1:24:16dead. So then you go back, you grab the
1:24:18gun, you put the gun on her chest.
1:24:22>> You're already, you know, your hands are
1:24:24full of blood.
1:24:26And then you grab her hand and you put
1:24:28her hand on the gun and then you wrap
1:24:29her hand around the gun.
1:24:31>> I didn't wrap her hand around the gun.
1:24:32>> Well, then maybe she came alive for two
1:24:35seconds and put her hand around her own
1:24:36gun.
1:24:37>> Not purposefully. I did not purposfully.
1:24:39>> But is that isn't that kind of weird?
1:24:41>> Psychotic.
1:24:42>> That's weird that you would put her hand
1:24:45back on your firearm that she just used
1:24:49behind a closed door that you were
1:24:51standing on the other side of.
1:24:54What I think is exactly what you just
1:24:56said. You freaked out because the gun
1:24:58was there, but you freaked out for
1:25:00another reason, too. Because either a
1:25:02she tried to shoot you and it was
1:25:03self-defense and you grabbed that gun,
1:25:05you shot her right back. You guys got in
1:25:07a fight about something.
1:25:09>> No, that gun went off behind the closed
1:25:12door.
1:25:12>> Like we said, you got to really think of
1:25:14a good story here because right now the
1:25:16evidence is not adding up to what you're
1:25:18telling us. And when we get a phone call
1:25:20from our forensic service unit
1:25:24explaining it a little bit more, you
1:25:26really got to think of a good story
1:25:27here.
1:25:28>> Okay.
1:25:29>> I freaked out.
1:25:30>> I freaked out. I took the gun. I put it
1:25:32in my case. I brought it back.
1:25:35>> I I put it on her chest. I moved. I I
1:25:38was
1:25:38>> Yeah, [clears throat]
1:25:40I believe you, man. I believe that you
1:25:42did that. But
1:25:43>> things were good between us. Things were
1:25:45fine. This was
1:25:45>> Were they though? Were they though?
1:25:47>> Yeah. You just got punched by her
1:25:49ex-boyfriend at a bar. I
1:25:50>> don't care about that. I don't care
1:25:51about that.
1:25:51>> But things were good.
1:25:52>> Yeah.
1:25:54>> Yeah.
1:25:55>> You were saying that things were good.
1:25:56You guys have been dating for two for
1:25:58two years and you have a wife and four
1:26:00children at home. Things weren't good.
1:26:02>> Matthew,
1:26:03>> things weren't good.
1:26:04>> She wasn't happy with that.
1:26:06I mean, honestly,
1:26:08she was jealous.
1:26:10>> Understanding.
1:26:19Maybe you thought she was fine with it,
1:26:21but maybe deep down she was not fine
1:26:23with it and it came out when she drank
1:26:25because you said that she has another
1:26:26side there when she gets drunk, right?
1:26:28>> Compulsive. Yeah.
1:26:29>> Yeah.
1:26:30>> Maybe she's not okay with it.
1:26:32>> Maybe she saw something on Facebook or
1:26:34or social media
1:26:37>> and she wasn't okay with it. Now her
1:26:39other boyfriend comes down just for a
1:26:41night because she wants him to. But then
1:26:44she gets
1:26:44>> but then he gets to go back to his
1:26:46family and his wife.
1:26:47>> I was going back to Roso tomorrow. You
1:26:50know what I mean? You go back to your
1:26:51family and you know
1:26:54>> it's been that way for 2 years.
1:26:55>> I know. But maybe she was holding it in.
1:26:59>> You don't know. Maybe
1:27:00>> maybe she was. Yeah. I don't know. And
1:27:02>> she got upset.
1:27:03>> That gun went off behind the closed
1:27:05door. Okay. That's what I know. Okay.
1:27:09That's what I know. I freaked out. I
1:27:11moved the gun. I put it back.
1:27:13>> Okay. Okay.
1:27:17>> That gun went off behind the closet.
1:27:19>> Okay.
1:27:20>> I didn't do you um
1:27:22>> I did not share.
1:27:23>> Are you aware of Alexa
1:27:26people have in their houses?
1:27:27>> Yeah.
1:27:29>> Does Alexander have that?
1:27:31>> I don't know. So maybe
1:27:37I don't know.
1:27:37>> You know those record conversations.
1:27:39>> Oh yeah. So yeah, right. I'm just going
1:27:43to let you know right now what the
1:27:44process is. My partner's doing really
1:27:46good with you. Okay. Um
1:27:50not a self-directed gun.
1:27:52>> No, I'm telling you that right now.
1:27:54>> It is. It is. Okay. That she
1:27:56>> and
1:27:57>> I did not do this. And you manipulated
1:28:00>> I did
1:28:01>> with a a person to make it look like she
1:28:03shot herself.
1:28:04>> No. I
1:28:05>> So what does that look like?
1:28:07>> I put the gun on her chest. I And her
1:28:10hand I
1:28:11>> Well, let's let's
1:28:12>> I got scared.
1:28:12>> You took the gun.
1:28:14>> Mhm.
1:28:14>> Decided to bring the gun back.
1:28:16>> Mhm. Because I knew that
1:28:18>> with that you put the gun on top and put
1:28:20her hand around the gun.
1:28:23>> Why did you put Yeah. Why did you put
1:28:24the gun right there? Why not just put
1:28:25the gun on the counter or something?
1:28:27>> I I just Especially if you're when
1:28:29they're moving her body and you're doing
1:28:30you're you're trying to stop the
1:28:31bleeding. You decide to take the gun
1:28:32there and put it on her chest
1:28:33>> because I went down with the gun and I
1:28:37that was I just put it there and I was
1:28:39looking at her. I wasn't
1:28:40>> Matthew. Come on, bud.
1:28:42>> No, I I was looking at her. I was
1:28:45>> No one No one takes
1:28:46>> I was upset. I was sad. I was
1:28:48>> I'm laying right here. I take a gun from
1:28:50right here. Yep.
1:28:51>> And move it right here. So I can perform
1:28:53and look and do things with the gun
1:28:55right here on her chest. Right. Then
1:28:58you're going to take the gun because
1:29:00you're scared and go put it in your
1:29:01backpack. You're going to come back,
1:29:03grab the gun, put it back on her chest,
1:29:05put her left hand around the gun to look
1:29:07like she shot. Oh god.
1:29:09>> That's exactly what that's exactly what
1:29:11you're telling us, right? Cuz when the
1:29:13cops got there, the gun when they walked
1:29:16in the door was pointing at them with
1:29:18their hand around it. So they had to
1:29:20remove the gun, not knowing what's going
1:29:22on, and make it safe.
1:29:25That's psychotic.
1:29:27I was scared.
1:29:28>> Matthew, this girl loves you. This girl
1:29:31>> I love her, too.
1:29:32>> So, she deserves the truth.
1:29:33>> I love her, too. I know they do. That is
1:29:36the truth. I got scared. I got scared.
1:29:39That gun went off behind the closed
1:29:41door.
1:29:42>> I think you did get scared. But I think
1:29:43you got scared for another reason before
1:29:45the cops showed up. I think you had to
1:29:46sit there for a little bit and decide,
1:29:48what the am I going to tell these cops?
1:29:50What am I going to say?
1:29:51>> No.
1:29:52>> Because earlier in the night, you get in
1:29:54a fight with her ex-boyfriend. You guys
1:29:56are drinking all day. You already told
1:29:58my partner you might have blacked out
1:30:00before you called the cops. You were
1:30:01You're not sure. You might have passed
1:30:02out.
1:30:02>> I didn't pass. I didn't.
1:30:04>> You said you were sure a little bit ago.
1:30:06>> Oh, just like you said you told the cops
1:30:08when you got there that you guys did
1:30:10argue with the apartment. It's on body
1:30:12cam.
1:30:13>> We didn't argue with the apartment.
1:30:14>> But you told the cops that
1:30:16>> they have it. They record everything on
1:30:18body warranty. You told the cops that we
1:30:21got into a little argument at the
1:30:23apartment, but things were fine. You
1:30:24also told him you went for a little
1:30:25walk.
1:30:27>> No, I didn't go for a walk.
1:30:28>> I did not go for a walk.
1:30:30>> Okay, here here's the deal. My burn is
1:30:32went down. I'm telling you right now,
1:30:33Matt. I I talked to a lot better people
1:30:37than this right here. This is not
1:30:39flying. I I'm I'm not Maybe I'm a little
1:30:43more harsh about it because I've seen
1:30:44enough of this, but it's very clear-cut.
1:30:47And she gave you the opportunity to say,
1:30:49"Hey, this is what really happened."
1:30:52Whether it was self-defense, whether it
1:30:53wasn't, maybe you were pissed out of
1:30:55your killed her, I don't know. But if
1:30:58you want to go with the story that she
1:31:01shot herself in the head between the
1:31:02evidence, FSU, the statements, the
1:31:06medical examiner's office, that ain't
1:31:08going to fly. And you're going to be
1:31:09sitting in prison for a long time,
1:31:11especially after the fact that not only
1:31:13you not telling the truth, but that you
1:31:14want to try to cover it up and put a gun
1:31:17back on her chest. I
1:31:19>> I'm just trying to I I get how that
1:31:22looks. I got scared with the gun and
1:31:24whoop the gun and I'm sorry.
1:31:26>> We're not going to hold you up anymore.
1:31:27We're just going to do um do a GSR. It
1:31:30doesn't matter. You can watch off.
1:31:32>> Um
1:31:33>> DNA, are you willing to give us a number
1:31:35of DNA? We'll do that, too.
1:31:37>> Get prepared at the scene and then we'll
1:31:39get you over and uh say I'm sorry for
1:31:42the off your table.
1:31:44Matthew, again, I just really want you
1:31:46to think about what you've decided here.
1:31:48>> There's no there's
1:31:50>> Matthew, you're a doctor. You know that
1:31:51there's evidence. You see this all the
1:31:53time, right?
1:31:54>> And I'm telling you, yes, with the gun,
1:31:56I freaked out and I put it back and I
1:32:00That went off behind a closed door
1:32:02>> with you on the other side of the house.
1:32:03>> With me on the other side.
1:32:04>> Just keep remembering. Just keep
1:32:06remembering the evidence. Keep
1:32:07remembering that her left hand has no
1:32:09blood on it, Matt. No blood. Nothing.
1:32:13There's no water in that sink. There's
1:32:15no blood in that sink. Nothing.
1:32:18>> Just keep remembering that.
1:32:23>> Not going to serve you either.
1:32:34All right. Are you going to do these
1:32:39real quick here?
1:32:42Do you need anything? Food. You hungry?
1:32:47Do you need more water?
1:32:49Okay. So,
1:32:55this is the
1:33:01the GSR gunshot residue and then the
1:33:05DNA. Um, I'm going to have
1:33:16for one second.
1:33:17>> Yeah.
1:33:26So, is this just a voluntary consent?
1:33:29All right. If you want to sign in there
1:33:32and date that, Matthew.
1:33:40tell you what we're going to do here.
1:33:42So, this is a DNA.
1:33:47>> You ever done a DNA
1:33:50swab?
1:33:50>> Okay.
1:34:00So, I'm going to come around there and
1:34:02I'm just going to swab the inside cheeks
1:34:06on both sides.
1:34:10Open up this
1:34:13side.
1:34:17We're going to do that side.
1:34:21Okay.
1:34:32So, we get done here. Just so you know,
1:34:34um, while she's going to bed, you got to
1:34:36take some photos, which is what we
1:34:37always do. We need to collect your
1:34:39clothing. Okay. I'll give you some other
1:34:41kind of clothing to put on,
1:34:44but that's just typical. Good to have
1:34:47nice. Okay.
1:35:00and once we get the photos in here as
1:35:02well, but uh shouldn't be much longer.
1:35:09Yep.
1:35:12Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah.
1:35:19Tap tap right
1:35:26here.
1:35:29>> Just this.
1:35:31>> Okay. Can I have your right hand?
1:35:59Keep
1:36:02left.
1:36:37right now. Give me that.
1:36:46Can you do me a favor? Just going to
1:36:48take some balls. If you can just stand
1:36:50by the wall right here for me, partner.
1:36:58If you just stand up against the wall
1:37:02hands.
1:37:21You said you got punched earlier. Do you
1:37:23know where you were punched?
1:37:24>> I think right here. Right there.
1:37:29Any
1:37:37other injuries on any scratches? Nothing
1:37:39like that.
1:38:08You want to face the wall here?
1:38:16>> Okay.
1:38:17>> Then I'll say
1:38:19>> no. When we go next after we're done
1:38:21talking
1:38:31>> Yeah.
1:38:34>> Right there. Is that from you scratching
1:38:36yourself or
1:38:38>> Okay.
1:38:39Okay. Take some pictures of that.
1:38:4313.
1:38:57Thank you. Would you hate enough?
1:38:59>> Yeah.
1:39:00>> One second. You good for second part?
1:39:01>> Yeah. You can just take another seat
1:39:03back.
1:39:11Sure.
1:39:28>> Okay.
1:39:30>> For whatever.
1:39:32>> So,
1:39:33we're good with everything that you
1:39:36said, right?
1:39:38Okay. Just going to show you some
1:39:40photos. Okay. And I want you to really
1:39:42think about this.
1:39:44I'm just asking you to think about
1:39:47these people.
1:39:50And I want you to think about her. Okay?
1:39:55I want you to think about this.
1:39:58I want you to think about the story that
1:39:59you're telling us. What happened? And I
1:40:02I want you to remember that my partners
1:40:04worked hundreds of days, right? We know
1:40:10Okay.
1:40:11>> I didn't kill her. I didn't I didn't
1:40:13>> I just want you
1:40:15>> I want you just to remember
1:40:18these four kids and her and if something
1:40:21else happened in there, we just want to
1:40:23know what happened.
1:40:24>> Nothing else.
1:40:26>> And if you're if that's the truth, if
1:40:28you're looking at these pictures and
1:40:29telling us that nothing else happened,
1:40:31that she shot herself behind a closed
1:40:33door and the door was locked, then
1:40:36that's
1:40:36>> I think it was locked. It was closed. It
1:40:38was close. Then that's something that
1:40:40we're just going to have to
1:40:43>> go with,
1:40:44>> right,
1:40:45>> Matthew? The story you're giving us
1:40:47right now, you're looking be looking at
1:40:48a first-degree murder as opposed to a
1:40:50man.
1:40:51>> Oh, I didn't.
1:40:54It was close.
1:40:59I love her.
1:41:03I hope you'll love her more than them.
1:41:06her.
1:41:07>> I did do this. That door was closed.
1:41:15>> There's a difference
1:41:17from self-defense
1:41:20and there's a difference.
1:41:24One of the difference was suicide.
1:41:27Right now, you're telling us that the
1:41:28door was closed and she shot herself in
1:41:30the head with her left hand and then you
1:41:33picked
1:41:34>> she had it to her head and she was
1:41:36backing into the bathroom with her left
1:41:38hand and that's what I know and the door
1:41:42was closed. She shut the door.
1:41:45>> Okay.
1:41:46>> Okay. I think
1:41:50I said
1:41:53>> you know that after we leave here
1:41:57after we leave here you're not going to
1:41:58have another chance to tell us your
1:42:00story right to go with the story that
1:42:03you told us which we can disprove just
1:42:05so you know.
1:42:07>> So once we walk out of here
1:42:08>> there's no other story. No, there is.
1:42:11The scene says a completely different
1:42:12story.
1:42:13>> And I have no idea what that story is
1:42:15because that
1:42:15>> I can tell you what the story is.
1:42:17>> That door was shut.
1:42:18>> That's not a self-inflicted gunshot.
1:42:20>> That door was shut.
1:42:21>> And everything that you said happened is
1:42:23even close to what the scene says.
1:42:25>> That door was shut.
1:42:26>> You know what? I wish it was as easy as
1:42:29if we come out and look at a scene and
1:42:30say it's a suicide, we go home.
1:42:34>> I don't want to be here. Matthew, you
1:42:35got to understand the cops that showed
1:42:37up have don't have the the the
1:42:40skills that we have as homicide
1:42:43investigators. And when they show up and
1:42:45they see something, they're like, "This
1:42:47doesn't look right." And they go to
1:42:49their boss and then that boss goes to
1:42:51the other boss and then goes to another
1:42:53boss and then we get called in the
1:42:54middle of the night to come in. There's
1:42:56something suspicious. Right.
1:42:57>> Right.
1:42:59And you're going to stick to that same
1:43:00story that that door was closed. Even
1:43:02though you're looking at your four kids,
1:43:05you're looking at your wife.
1:43:06>> I telling me when you're looking at
1:43:08these four adorable kids and this wife,
1:43:11you're still saying that you love Alex.
1:43:13Well, then
1:43:16>> so of course I do.
1:43:17>> And I don't know what else to
1:43:19>> I
1:43:20I don't know what else.
1:43:22>> But you're looking you're with the
1:43:23story. You're going you're look at your
1:43:26family. You're looking at life in prison
1:43:28compared to give us what happened could
1:43:32easily explain something that happened
1:43:35to maybe who knows no time based on what
1:43:38the story you tell us. I don't know but
1:43:40the story you're giving us right now I'm
1:43:42telling you right now dude you're I
1:43:44don't I don't I don't have a spot that
1:43:48>> remember you told us you didn't have a
1:43:49story and then you knocked on the door
1:43:51and we came back in told us about the
1:43:52gun.
1:43:53>> That was a change. That was the only
1:43:56change. That's the only thing that I
1:43:57did. I was scared and that was stupid.
1:43:58And I get it. That was dumb.
1:44:00>> I wouldn't have told us that right away
1:44:01though.
1:44:01>> I don't think I was scared.
1:44:02>> Even I'm scared now.
1:44:04>> Even after you figured it out, after you
1:44:06realize I better put the gun back. You
1:44:08think that would have been something you
1:44:09want to tell the homicide investigators
1:44:10right away?
1:44:11>> I'm sorry.
1:44:12>> Here, here's the deal. What we're going
1:44:14to do is, like I said, we got to take
1:44:15Nicole. We're going to collect those.
1:44:18They're going to bring you over to the
1:44:19jail. Okay? and you're going to be there
1:44:22and what's going to happen is uh the
1:44:23county attorney is going to review the
1:44:25case
1:44:26what we have so far and then determine
1:44:30um whether there's bail or not bail or
1:44:32anything like that.
1:44:32>> Oh my god.
1:44:35>> I I I'm
1:44:41sorry. Right. I'm going to end this
1:44:43interview at 9:30.
1:44:46>> Um
1:44:47>> I'll walk you over, but uh
1:44:49>> yeah, you guys, he's got a
1:44:51change clothes.
1:44:52>> Yeah.
1:44:59>> Give me a couple minutes here. I want to
1:45:00grab some bags and then uh
1:45:03>> we'll be right back to what clothes and
1:45:05stuff.
1:45:07>> Look at those pictures, man. What do you
1:45:08think about it?
1:45:17>> After hours of questioning and months of
1:45:19forensic review, investigators concluded
1:45:21that the scene inside Alexandra [music]
1:45:23Penn's apartment had been deliberately
1:45:25manipulated. The physical evidence,
1:45:28dried blood inconsistent with the
1:45:29reported timeline, damage to the
1:45:31bathroom door consistent [music] with
1:45:33forced entry, the displaced lock
1:45:35fragment beneath Penn's body, and the
1:45:37unnatural placement of the firearm
1:45:39[music] did not support a suicide.
1:45:41Instead, prosecutors argued it showed a
1:45:44sequence of actions taken after the
1:45:45fatal shot [music] to misrepresent what
1:45:47had occurred. At trial, the state
1:45:50presented surveillance footage, phone
1:45:52records, [music] forensic testimony, and
1:45:55ER's own statements to demonstrate that
1:45:57Matthew Philip Ecker intentionally shot
1:45:59Alexander L. Penig, and then attempted
1:46:02to stage the scene. Jurors were
1:46:04instructed to weigh not only what Eker
1:46:06said, [music] but how his explanations
1:46:08evolved, as evidence contradicted each
1:46:11version. After deliberation, the jury
1:46:13[music] rejected the suicide narrative
1:46:15and found Eker guilty of secondderee
1:46:17intentional murder. At sentencing, the
1:46:20court focused on the deliberate actions
1:46:22taken after Penn was killed, noting that
1:46:24efforts to portray the relationship as
1:46:26loving were inconsistent with the
1:46:28evidence. Eker was sentenced to 30 years
1:46:30in prison, reflecting the seriousness of
1:46:32[music] the offense and the attempt to
1:46:34conceal it. In 2025, the Minnesota Court
1:46:37of Appeals affirmed both the conviction
1:46:39and [music] sentence, finding the
1:46:41evidence sufficient and the proceedings
1:46:42fair. The case now stands as a [music]
1:46:45closed matter in the courts, defined not
1:46:47by the story first told to responding
1:46:49officers, but by the forensic record,
1:46:52surveillance evidence, and the totality
1:46:54[music] of facts presented at trial. If
1:46:57you found this video informative, please
1:46:58consider leaving a like and subscribing
1:47:00to the channel as it really helps
1:47:02support our work and allows us to
1:47:04continue covering important stories like
1:47:06this one. Thank you.

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