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Stablecoins: The Payments Industry, Rebuilt - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2026 — Transcript

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0:08Well, how about this, guys? Main stage.
0:11We've made it. I never thought I'd see
0:14the day that I'd be at the OKX main
0:16stage at Token talking about how stable
0:20coins are going to revolutionize
0:21payments.
0:23So,
0:23let's start with a question that I've
0:26been pondering.
0:28Can you exist as a financial services
0:31company? Can you be relevant
0:33in 2026 as a fintech, a bank, etc.
0:37and not have a footprint in stable
0:39coins?
0:40>> Okay, I'll jump in.
0:41>> Please do. Don't be shy.
0:43>> Definitely not shy. Uh so, I definitely
0:46don't think so.
0:47Um so, I think anybody who's not
0:49interacting, engaging as a fintech, even
0:52broader than fintechs, whether they're
0:54thinking about uh digital currencies,
0:56digital assets, or agentic, those to me
0:59are non-negotiable.
1:01>> Mm.
1:03Ivan?
1:05>> It's the future, right? You can't avoid
1:07this trend everywhere. You can't go, I
1:09think, a single day without hearing the
1:11word stablecoin if you're in this world.
1:13Um it's a proxy for a US dollar bank
1:16account. And that's incredibly valuable
1:19to the majority of the world. Um and so,
1:21I think this trend is on steroids. It's
1:24the future of banking.
1:25>> Mm.
1:26And it adds a velocity to money. I think
1:29that's the major unlock. When you think
1:31about the value propositions of stable
1:33coins,
1:35what are the top three?
1:38>> I mean, I I think first, it's uh around
1:41the idea of programmability, eventually,
1:43right? I think we're getting into the
1:44early stages where people are thinking
1:46about how to orchestrate the movement of
1:47money in a seamless way. Uh and that
1:50effectuates a lot of workflows that I
1:51think are valuable. Um I think the
1:54velocity piece is also key, right? The
1:56ability to really take advantage of
1:59entire markets to build around credit
2:00and and the fact that
2:02you can't move money seamlessly across
2:04different jurisdictions. There are a lot
2:05of intermediaries. And so actually the
2:08ability to really like orchestrate that
2:10in a in a simple way and move money more
2:12seamlessly is key. And then I think like
2:14interoperability eventually is the third
2:15piece, right? It it can exist across
2:18different ecosystems and different
2:19blockchains. And for us, I think that's
2:22a a really interesting point because you
2:23don't really have to concentrate on the
2:25fact that you're operating within one
2:26ecosystem. Really the composability of
2:28the asset itself takes advantage of
2:31whatever ecosystem it can sit up and it
2:32sits across. It it can work pretty
2:34seamlessly.
2:35>> Cheaper, faster, 24/7, right? And the
2:38world is becoming more efficient. This
2:41is a more efficient technology.
2:43If you think about, you know, most of
2:45the banking system, it was built in
2:471990s, right? And so now we have a rail
2:50and we have a new file format that sits
2:52on top of the rail across these
2:53different chains.
2:55And, you know, it's going to be embedded
2:57everywhere. And I think it's going to
2:58come from crypto natives that are
3:00building these brand new banking
3:01experiences from the ground up from
3:02wallets. We're seeing the rise of neo
3:04banks were going beyond speculation of
3:06crypto assets to
3:08essentially a better version of a bank.
3:09And then you're seeing traditional orgs
3:11start to embed that technology directly
3:13into their existing distributions. So
3:15you're going to see it come from both
3:16sides. Um but it's incredibly powerful.
3:19Like as long as you have an internet
3:20connection anywhere where in the world,
3:21you can spin up a wallet and you can
3:23receive value in the form of a stable
3:24coin. Uh think about all these people,
3:26you know, we're using Western Union and
3:28yeah, I know you guys are partnered with
3:29them and you're enabling these guys to
3:31really compete for the future. But, you
3:33know, traditionally costs were on
3:35average about 6%, right? Moving money
3:37from A to B. That's
3:39incredibly expensive. And so if there's
3:40an alternative,
3:42people are going to opt into that
3:42alternative.
3:44>> Mhm.
3:45It's cheaper, faster, better. But do you
3:47consumers care? Do they see the impact?
3:50Um
3:51from the perspective of how it changes
3:54the way they can engage with their
3:56financial services.
3:57>> I think if you look at um
4:00the
4:01the discourse on the internet right
4:03around variety of different financial
4:05products available in the market, many
4:08people are choosing what they're going
4:10to rely on based on
4:1430 cents.
4:15>> Mhm.
4:15>> Right? They're like, "Oh, I'm going to
4:16switch my entire behavior because I
4:18saved 30 cents on this transaction."
4:21And there's a lot of places in the world
4:23where 30 cents is a meaningful amount of
4:25money, and it's the difference between
4:28having money at the end of the day or
4:29not having money at the end of the day.
4:31And so, if you can build better, faster,
4:33cheaper solutions,
4:35of course people are going to change
4:37their behavior. Of course they're going
4:38to care. But what they care about is not
4:40necessarily the stablecoin element. What
4:42they care about is access to products
4:44and services that they wouldn't normally
4:46have access to. And what we see mostly
4:49happening in the market right now is
4:50that
4:51because stablecoin-powered
4:53infrastructure and solutions are better,
4:55faster, cheaper, more widely available,
4:58people are adopting them because
5:00they don't have access to high-quality
5:02products and services. Um the economies
5:04of scale you need to provide
5:06high-quality products
5:08is significant, and so many markets on a
5:11standalone basis, they just don't have
5:13that scale. And so, you need a global
5:15solution that is going to come in and
5:17provide you the economy of the scale
5:19that you need to operate a high-quality
5:21product. And with stablecoins, it
5:24becomes easier to do um than it's been
5:26before.
5:27>> Right. Maybe for me, I think there's
5:28like a slight difference that folks
5:30should think about in terms of like
5:31retail versus institutional, right?
5:34Stablecoins are cheaper for retail.
5:36They're not generally cheaper on the
5:37institutional level with like
5:39significant size.
5:40Right? So, you know, there's a liquidity
5:42depth and all those different things
5:44that people need to think about. But I
5:45think in general, you know, when you
5:48think about tokenized money or stable
5:49coins like for the retail use case right
5:51now, I'm not saying for like
5:53institutional use case it won't change,
5:55but it does make a lot of sense, right?
5:57To point Ivan raised,
5:58the ability to spin up a wallet is
6:00seamless, the ability to actually take
6:02advantage of lower cost is there. But as
6:04you start to think about what stable
6:05coins start to do on the institutional
6:07landscape, you know, there's really
6:09strong pricing for large corporates to
6:11move money across border.
6:13>> Sure.
6:14>> And so people need to kind of think
6:15about that as like a a broader
6:16difference between the two two use
6:18cases.
6:19>> Thank you for having us in your
6:22home city, by the way.
6:24Appreciate it. It's great to be here in
6:25Singapore.
6:27Haseeb, who graced the stage on the
6:29previous panel,
6:31had a lot of interesting things to say,
6:33has long
6:35advocated for the idea of blockchains
6:38being cities effectively. It's not a
6:41zero-sum game. You can have thousands of
6:44blockchains just as you can have
6:46Singapore, New York, Tokyo, etc., etc.
6:50Is that the same case for stable coins?
6:52How many
6:54of these are there going to be?
6:57>> I think we're seeing a couple of really
6:58interesting trends. You have essentially
7:01these consortium stable coins.
7:03Um and you know, really stable coins
7:05have historically been dominated by two
7:07names, Tether and Circle.
7:08Um but now you're seeing the rise of
7:10other companies that have significant
7:13nodes, significant distribution, taking
7:15advantage of that distribution and
7:17wanting to own part of the economics.
7:19And so there's a big rationale and
7:22reason for them to actually go and issue
7:24their own stable.
7:26Does it make sense for every single
7:27company to, you know, undergo the the
7:31work it requires to go issue their own
7:33stable coin, get the requisite
7:34licensing,
7:36uh make sure it's compliant for the
7:37various jurisdictions?
7:39I'm not necessarily convinced. I think
7:40that's where infrastructure providers
7:41come in and make it simpler for people
7:44to take advantage of this. But I think
7:45what we're now starting to see is a
7:47shift of economics, right? It's not just
7:49going to be, I think, two companies in
7:51the future. This market's going to
7:52become far more competitive. And, you
7:55know, if you can have your own branded
7:56stablecoin, and you can launch that
7:58relatively quickly, uh and you have a
8:00platform, you have distribution, I think
8:02100% it makes sense.
8:04>> [snorts]
8:05>> What's going to separate the wheat from
8:06the chaff?
8:08>> I think trust.
8:10>> Mhm.
8:10>> I think that it's really important to
8:14You can go fast in a space, but you're
8:16ultimately talking about value, right?
8:18And And in these cases and use cases
8:20we're building, at least, is people's
8:22money and livelihood, whether it's
8:24businesses and getting operational
8:26efficiency, and that means the actual
8:29livelihood of their business. Does it
8:31survive day-to-day because the money's
8:33moving faster or it is, you know,
8:35cheaper? Or they're attracting a global
8:37base? Whether it's consumers whose
8:40hard-earned money is stable, it crosses
8:43borders in seconds uh versus days, it's
8:47fractions of a cost. So, all these use
8:49cases, at least, that us and PayPal are
8:52completely focused on is how do you take
8:53that into global commerce? Consumers'
8:55and merchants' expectations have
8:57changed. We can send an email today in
9:00seconds, right? You should be able to
9:02send value within that speed. But with
9:06that comes a responsibility. It comes a
9:09a trust that you need to instill. It
9:11means uh simplicity of your experiences.
9:14It means regulatory forward and being
9:16compliant, um and taking a very uh
9:20disciplined and thoughtful approach uh
9:22to it.
9:24>> Maybe, you know, I think you're
9:25absolutely spot-on in in terms of trust,
9:27but I do think the ability for liquidity
9:31depth and distribution is I think that's
9:32something that's like vastly
9:34underestimated, right? So, at the end of
9:36the day
9:37if someone's getting paid in Vietnam or
9:40in, you know, Ghana or in Zimbabwe or
9:43wherever it might be,
9:45um they need to be able to redeem that
9:47for value. Right? And so if you think
9:49about where a lot of like uh the
9:52tokenized deposit plays or any of these
9:54other things, they're like trapped
9:55ecosystems that you really can't move
9:57out of. I think what Circle and Tether
9:59have done really well is that their
10:01distribution and their ability to
10:03you know, get out of that stablecoin
10:05into local currency is like extremely
10:07wide, right? And so for a lot of the new
10:10stablecoins, I think they're going to
10:11struggle with that distribution aspect.
10:14Like obviously big players may come
10:15together and build that over time, but I
10:18think either they're going to be
10:19singular platform plays and it'll be
10:21very hard to extend beyond that and then
10:23someone will have to come in as an
10:24intermediary and basically provide a
10:26market to get out of a platform and into
10:28another stable where someone can
10:30actually redeem. But the inability to do
10:32that I think will be like stifling for
10:34any of these stablecoin issues issuers
10:36to kind of overcome.
10:38>> And I think the consumer doesn't really
10:39care. I think the consumer, if you look
10:41inside of most wallets, what's a really
10:43interesting trend that we're seeing in
10:44real time is they're just referring to
10:46stablecoins as cash, cash with a star.
10:49Uh
10:49but uh it's cash, it's a checking
10:51account, and that's your entry point.
10:53And so, you know, when it comes to
10:56stablecoin issuance, when you are
10:57building a the next generation neobank
10:59or app, I think really what it comes
11:01down to is are you getting rewarded for
11:03those economics, right? Like the you
11:06know, most fintech businesses you can
11:07really break down in a couple really
11:09four main areas of their business in
11:11which they're able to monetize. They're
11:13either running a float business, right?
11:14So they're holding on to balances and
11:16they're earning interest income on the
11:17treasury bills that are basically
11:18backing those stablecoins in some way.
11:20They're making money on trades, right?
11:23Or moving, you know, from a stablecoin
11:25into any crypto asset and so they're
11:26earning some sort of spread on that. Uh
11:28they're making money on interchange,
11:30right? If you're issuing cards, right?
11:32Uh Rain uh has seen that. And then
11:34really the last piece is subscriptions
11:36or services income. And those are really
11:37your four buckets. And so really when
11:39you're thinking about, you know, these
11:41white label stable coins that are coming
11:42to market, it's really well if you've
11:44captured the distribution, you have
11:46those customers, are you being rewarded
11:47with those economics? And so I think the
11:49existing players need to adapt. They've
11:51historically not wanted to share any of
11:53that interest income. And so I think
11:55that's what's prompting a lot of these
11:57partners say, well, you know, if it's
11:58not so difficult and a partner can help
12:00me do this, then there's an opportunity
12:02to do it. But you're 100% right that,
12:05you know, there is a lot of work around
12:06the liquidity provision because if it
12:08isn't liquid and you can't convert it
12:09back into fiat or into other crypto
12:11assets, uh you know, you're going to be
12:14constrained with the realizing the full
12:16potential and value of that stable coin.
12:18>> I've been I'm glad you brought that up
12:19because I'm keen to double click on the
12:22economics of payments and how they
12:24change because of stable coins.
12:26Who are the winners? Who are the losing
12:29losers? What what changes in that
12:31respect?
12:32>> Yeah. Well, what's really interesting is
12:34I think the trend is more and more value
12:37is going to shift over this new system.
12:38And so the economics now go to the
12:40issuers or the people that control those
12:43stable coins. And so transaction costs
12:45come down, which is great for the
12:46consumer. Um but it doesn't mean that
12:49Visa and MasterCard are going away. Like
12:51there's just insane network effects. And
12:53so people need to spend their stable
12:54coins in everyday life. It's going to
12:56take probably a decade for every
12:58merchant to have a POS terminal that is
13:00able to accept a crypto. I don't know
13:01how many of you guys in the audience
13:03have actually paid with crypto. There
13:05are places, there are pockets, and it is
13:07promising. And I think over time people
13:09will opt into that system. But what's
13:10far more inconvenient is having a card
13:12attached to that wallet and be able to
13:13spend, right? So I think, you know,
13:15that's what
13:16is probably the fastest growing trend
13:18that we're seeing in real time right
13:20now. And so the economics again really
13:22go back to those buckets. It's interest
13:24income on float. It's trading. And it's
13:27inner change.
13:28>> Mhm. I think though it's important to
13:30remember the global aspect and Farooq
13:32touched on this. Um so, I think in
13:34developed markets,
13:36there isn't a rush. Even if you
13:37incentivize me, like I'm still going to
13:39use my credit card rewards. I'm still
13:41not adopting stablecoin payments. When
13:43you talk about emerging markets and
13:45other areas and regions, it's actually
13:47expensive
13:49>> Mhm.
13:49>> get money. It's expensive to switch into
13:53different values. It's actually
13:55expensive because the my currency
13:57devalues day-by-day, and that costs me.
14:00And so, I think you know, there's Yes,
14:02when you look at rails and payments
14:04depending on the use case, is it
14:06cross-border? Are there nostro vostro
14:08accounts? Are there networks? And how
14:10does that now change into a stablecoin
14:13rail? And where does the economic shift?
14:15But there's also different use cases we
14:16need to think about and take a global
14:19lens. And then I think you raised this
14:20consumer merchant and developer lens, um
14:23like we are with PYUSD UX. So, I I think
14:26there's it's not just like one simple
14:29answer and response. Yeah.
14:30>> People are hooked on the rewards. That's
14:32a really good point.
14:33>> And so, I don't think credit cards are
14:34going away anytime soon. Uh and so,
14:38>> We're in the fourth quarter, Evan. So,
14:39that means Lululemon, Resy credit.
14:42>> Right. Those are Those are great things
14:44you want to take advantage of. So, you
14:45know, I I think my view is we're going
14:47to need to find a way to bring that same
14:49level of reward mechanism into
14:51stablecoins themselves if they're
14:53actually going to be used as a form of
14:54payment. And so, probably the shortcut
14:56for us getting there is these stablecoin
14:58linked cards, and people are going to be
14:59using them on the Visa Mastercard
15:00network. But over time, why why not
15:02settle just directly in the stablecoin?
15:04But you need to be incentivized to do
15:05that.
15:06>> Farooq, agree.
15:08>> [laughter]
15:10>> So, how do you think it impacts the the
15:12credit card business specifically?
15:15>> I think ultimately, right, there's a few
15:16things happening. So, one of the things
15:18we see is we have programs that we power
15:21that are fiat use cases, right? Now the
15:24back-end infrastructure for that is
15:26powered by stablecoin technology, so
15:29that means that credit is being
15:31provisioned using stablecoin
15:33liquidity vaults.
15:35And there's a traditional credit card on
15:37the other side.
15:38Similarly, we see wallet-linked
15:40balances, so you're
15:42swiping a payment instrument, it's going
15:44over
15:46the authorization layer, and then moving
15:48the money from your wallet to somewhere
15:50else.
15:50I think ultimately what we see is that
15:52because it's programmatic,
15:54the money is programmable, you're able
15:56to compose the transaction. One of the
15:59exciting, you know, opportunities ahead
16:01is how do you build better financial
16:03products that are more flexible, that
16:05allow people to kind of adjust between
16:07your journey as an individual, right? So
16:09like some people start their life as
16:12relatively, you know, skinny on the
16:14credit file perspective, so hard to
16:17underwrite. Then they over time they
16:19earn money, they borrow money, they
16:20repay it, they develop a history.
16:23And today, there's really no product
16:25that you can that will just adjust with
16:27you, right? The way that the financial
16:29system works today, it's all very much
16:31this product is one-size-fits-everything
16:34that it fits in here. So it's like
16:36small, medium, large, extra large,
16:38whatever. And so there's an opportunity
16:40to start building products that are
16:41composable, so that as your credit
16:44quality evolves,
16:46different people are providing you that
16:48credit on the other side. You can keep
16:50the rewards the way they are, you can
16:53add rewards, you can adjust for the
16:55quality of the customer as they expand
16:57through through time.
16:58>> It's like more real-time financial
17:00services.
17:01>> It it A lot of I think what we see right
17:03now is that stablecoins are a way to
17:06unlock a lot of the promise that open
17:07banking
17:09um
17:09you know, was promising, right? Like
17:11open banking around the world has
17:13largely been a dud, uh where many of the
17:16things people expected to happen, oh
17:17well, you know, every
17:18>> like the big wave of lending startups?
17:21>> Yeah, open banking, but also like the
17:22whole concept of like, oh, you know,
17:24you'll be able to move money to the
17:25highest earning yield bucket, and then
17:27you'll be able to move it
17:28[clears throat] to get spending. Like,
17:29that largely didn't materialize because
17:32the underlying infrastructure to
17:33facilitate that never got upgraded,
17:35right? So, if you look in the United
17:36States, it's a 3-day transfer between
17:38ACH, you know, between one institution
17:41and the other. If you're moving from a
17:42money market fund to your bank account
17:44to be able to spend the money,
17:46you're you're not going to be able to
17:47have that. You have to plan ahead to do
17:49that, and so it's enormously complicated
17:51to do, and so most people don't do it.
17:53If you have agents that are able to move
17:55your money in real time using stable
17:57coins or tokenized deposits,
17:59that changes that dynamic, and now
18:00people have to compete on product
18:02quality,
18:03which again, from a consumer welfare
18:04perspective, is actually very good. From
18:06an institutional welfare perspective,
18:09potentially it's less good. And so, it
18:11creates the opportunity back to your
18:12question earlier of like, who are the
18:14winners going to be, who are the losers
18:15going to be? I think whenever change
18:17happens, it creates the opportunity for
18:19institutions to decide, am I interested
18:22in being in a winner? Like, am I
18:24interested in being somebody that wins
18:26on the other side of this innovation
18:27cycle? Or am I quite happy to try to
18:30avoid this disrupting my existing
18:33business. We see this every day, right?
18:35So, we power um very large companies
18:37like Western Union. Western Union has
18:40decided
18:41in the stablecoin ecosystem, they're not
18:43going to sit back and wait for the
18:46innovation to happen and then decide how
18:47it impacts their business. They're going
18:50to join the fray, and they're going to
18:51live inside the maelstrom to get to the
18:53other side to figure out how they can
18:55monetize this and be a winner on the
18:56other side, right? Many people have been
19:00left behind by previous innovation
19:02cycles.
19:03This innovation cycle is an opportunity
19:04for institutions globally to decide, do
19:07I want to be part of it, or do I want to
19:09sit back and relax and pretend that this
19:12is not going to impact my life in the
19:13future.
19:14>> Is AI going to supercharge the growth of
19:18stablecoins?
19:19>> Absolutely. I mean
19:22100%. I think that you can't avoid this
19:25incredible trend of superintelligence.
19:27Uh and superintelligence, when you
19:30combine it with crypto
19:32uh and wallet infrastructure,
19:32permissionless infrastructure that can
19:34move anywhere, yeah, you're going to see
19:36a world where embedded inside your
19:38wallet you have a stablecoin balance and
19:41it can automatically start to move those
19:43balances into yield yield-bearing
19:46products. What's so interesting and
19:47fascinating about the banking system
19:49today is how much money sits in checking
19:51accounts where there's a friction to
19:53actually go and move your money into a
19:55savings account. It's right there in
19:56front of you, but a lot of people don't
19:57take advantage of that. Uh and so they
19:59miss out on that yield. You know, you
20:01can imagine when we start to delegate
20:03trust to an agent and yeah, that's a
20:05really key piece. Like humans are going
20:06to need to be in the loop. We're going
20:07to need to gain some trust for these
20:09things over time. But
20:11I would love an agent to autonomously
20:12move my money into the highest
20:14optimizing, you know, savings rate based
20:17on the constraints that I set it, right?
20:18That would be a phenomenal innovation.
20:19So I think we're going to see massive
20:21disruption on that side, which should
20:22ultimately benefit the consumer.
20:25>> May I'm curious, given PayPal's seat,
20:28right? You've got Venmo, you've got
20:30PayPal, you've got crypto
20:32payments. How are you seeing or or how
20:36are
20:37customers or clients engaging with those
20:40different
20:42vehicles? What's what sort of
20:45the
20:46um
20:47the breakdown of their preference?
20:50>> It's it's use case based, right? So when
20:53we think about So within our wallets, um
20:56we have trusted wallets, uh mainstream,
20:59Venmo's US only, but uh PayPal has
21:02global reach. And so there's the
21:04inclusion of okay, trading and the
21:06ability to interact with digital assets
21:08within their platform. Again, just an
21:10easy simple way for them to be able to
21:13enter in the space, understand, get
21:15involved. Um, and so there's that's kind
21:17of the broader side of digital assets
21:19and more mainstream. And then there's
21:21the okay, how do you now start thinking
21:23about stable coins and really embedding
21:25that from a payments and commerce
21:28perspective. And so on that lens,
21:30there's cross-border payments. I think
21:32is that's where the highest kind of
21:33friction points so at least initially
21:36and the easier one to adopt. Um,
21:38especially again when we talked about
21:39developed versus developing. In
21:41developing markets, there's a need to
21:44access a stable currency so that it
21:46hedges against local all right, the
21:48currency inflation, the different
21:50aspects of that. And then you can use
21:52that, earn, send, spend, um, and be able
21:55to actually transact with it. And that's
21:57where it becomes actually super
21:58powerful. And now value, let's say
22:01stable, can move across the world in
22:03seconds and fractions of a cost and
22:07actually now have end state utility for
22:09both. Um,
22:11and so I think with that's where we
22:12continue to see there's the emergence of
22:14where consumers will adopt it especially
22:16from a cross-border lens or a local lens
22:19where it really is acute. And then
22:21there's the businesses that will start
22:23to kind of interact with it. And
22:24especially for like settlement I'd say
22:26is one of the use cases. There's
22:28businesses that need settlement of the
22:30funds faster versus like at a weekly uh,
22:33ten at times
22:35so that they can operationally move
22:37their business in a healthier way.
22:40>> That makes sense.
22:42What do you guys think is the most
22:45overrated and underrated element of
22:48stable coins?
22:50Or maybe what folks are paying too much
22:52attention to or not enough attention to.
22:55>> I think a lot of people are missing the
22:57forest for the trees, right?
22:59I mean,
23:00we spend a lot of time talking about
23:01stable coins.
23:02The reality is is that money is getting
23:04tokenized whether we like it or not and
23:06that's going to take several forms. One
23:08is going to be CBDC, stable coins,
23:11tokenized deposits.
23:12All of these things have to run on
23:15blockchain infrastructure.
23:17And they're all non-fungible money. So
23:19that money can be programmatically
23:21moved, it can be sent from one
23:22institution to another. All of those
23:24types of instruments are going to have
23:27different elements of usability and
23:29different network effects, different
23:30fees, different yields associated with
23:32them. And then on top of that now we're
23:34adding, you know, tokenized real world
23:36assets which could be a money market
23:38fund which is another sort of money type
23:40instrument. So there's a lot of
23:42complexity that is emerging. Ultimately,
23:44this is going to go down to you know,
23:47the responsibility of builders and
23:48developers that are building solutions
23:50to decide what is the user experience
23:52I'm optimizing for. I think over the
23:55next like three to four years, I think
23:57conversations on stages like this will
23:59be around digital money. It's not going
24:01to be around stable coins. Stable coins
24:04will be just another format, but all of
24:06it is going to have to work together and
24:08I think a lot of people are ignoring the
24:10fact that
24:11whether you like it or not, whether you
24:14live in Singapore or you live in Tokyo
24:16or you live in New York or you live
24:18somewhere else entirely,
24:20this is going to impact you. You're
24:22going to have to deal with this. You're
24:24going to have to have a plan and it's
24:26not going away.
24:28And so I think a lot of people will just
24:30expect, oh well, you know, maybe this
24:31will just get regularized and regulation
24:33will make it go away or it'll get
24:34plugged in some way and I don't have to
24:36worry about it. The reality is is that
24:39genie is out of the bottle and like this
24:40is not going anywhere. Everybody has to
24:42have a plan and figure this out.
24:45>> Maybe I was going to say it's it's
24:47actually around the fact that fintechs
24:49and payments firms are actually in
24:51places like the US getting licenses to
24:54actually operate banking systems and
24:56enable kind of like innovation in the
24:58entire sector themselves, right? So, you
25:00know, for me, what becomes really
25:02interesting is that if you're a payment
25:04or a fintech firm, you had to rely on a
25:06bank at the last mile, right? You could
25:09have a stablecoin, you could go through
25:10OTC desk, but if you really needed to
25:12effectuate like the through and through
25:13process, you still needed to rely on a
25:16bank, right? And so, actually the
25:18disruption was as quick as the bank
25:20could actually adopt or take on fintech
25:22providers or payment service providers
25:24to actually execute those services.
25:26And I think now, like for example, in
25:27the US, if you go and get an OCC charter
25:30and theoretically get a skinny master
25:32account, you actually can dictate the
25:34flow of what money and the service
25:36should look like. And I think that's
25:38being in a lot of ways underestimated,
25:40right? I think people look at it because
25:41it might take money from credit unions
25:43or something like that, but I actually
25:44think it's changes how people can think
25:46about money and the pace at which the
25:48flows can actually be put into the
25:50market and then adopted. And
25:52I think that is something that
25:54people are kind of
25:55thinking a little bit
25:57um
25:58an unlimited notion about it at least at
25:59the moment of time.
26:02>> I mean, that like most people don't know
26:04how credit cards technically work, how
26:07money really moves around, that's behind
26:09the scenes, how the internet even works.
26:12And so, there's sometimes a lot of, I
26:15think, whether it's overhype or over
26:18discussions on topics that aren't really
26:20where we should go. So, I completely
26:21agreed. I think the world is completely
26:23going tokenized. I think that there is
26:26no choice or decision but to engage, and
26:29we need to keep customers in the center
26:31of everything we do and figure out what
26:33value are we bringing to whichever party
26:35in the equation, and focus those
26:37discussions. And again, of course, in a
26:39regulated, compliant way cuz we are
26:41talking about global money movement of
26:43value.
26:45>> I think she says value, and that's
26:46actually really key term because when we
26:48talk about what we're doing at MoonPay,
26:50we're building the operating system of
26:51value, not the operating system of
26:53money, because you're bundling a bunch
26:55of concepts when you start with
26:57stablecoins. First, it's your checking
26:58account, then you're moving into a
27:00yield-bearing product, that's your
27:01savings account, then you're going to
27:03move into an investment account. And the
27:05barriers to all these things are getting
27:07removed and getting collapsed into one
27:09experience. So, from your wallet, you're
27:11now going to have access to all of these
27:13various financial products. The
27:15challenge is, how do you do that in a
27:17regulatory compliant way? Where is the
27:19adoption going to take place? Like, you
27:21know, what we're seeing right now with
27:22tokenized stock is absolutely
27:23fascinating. You know, people aren't
27:25necessarily getting, you know, the
27:27licensed version of a of a stock. Like,
27:30they don't necessarily care. They just
27:31want exposure. If you're in Argentina,
27:33you've got a stablecoin, and you want to
27:35get exposure to SpaceX, you're one click
27:37away now, right, from a stablecoin. And
27:39so, we're seeing different flavors of
27:40these products onshore, we're seeing
27:42these products offshore. There's going
27:43to be a balance between both of those
27:44things, but what's so exciting is, I
27:47think this real-world asset theme is now
27:50getting to a place that we're actually
27:51going to see real-world adoption beyond
27:52just, okay, we've got stablecoins
27:54working, but all these financial
27:55products ultimately need to come on
27:56chain, which is phenomenal for consumer,
27:58because before, it was really
28:00challenging to put your money to work.
28:01There's so many people that had no
28:03access to US equity market whatsoever,
28:06and now, you know, it's a touch of a
28:07button away.
28:08>> 100%. Well, we'll leave it there.
28:10Everything's going on chain. You got to
28:13accept it.
28:14Let's give them a round of applause.
28:16Thank you.

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