YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → Sleep Doctor: If You Wake Up At 3AM, DO NOT Do This!

Sleep Doctor: If You Wake Up At 3AM, DO NOT Do This! — Transcript

by The Diary Of A CEO · 32,926 words · 4,951 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00What are the most popular questions
0:02people come to you with as a sleep
0:03doctor?
0:04>> There's three biggies. [music] Number
0:05one is what do I do if I fall asleep
0:07okay and I wake up in the middle of the
0:09night and I can't fall back asleep.
0:10>> And you can help people with that?
0:11>> Absolutely. The second question is what
0:13pillow should I buy? And I'm going to
0:15walk you through which pillows make
0:16sense for which people. And then another
0:18one that people ask me all the time is
0:21what's the best time to have sex?
0:22>> That's a strange thing for somebody of
0:24your profession to be asked about.
0:26>> Well, let me explain why. So, I've been
0:27an actively practicing sleep specialist
0:29for 26 years. I take care of people's
0:31sleep problems like apnea and insomnia.
0:33And I'm really interested in the things
0:34that you might be doing right now that
0:36are messing up your sleep that are easy
0:37to fix. So, for example, most people
0:39don't know that they have a genetic
0:41sleep code inside them called their
0:42chronotype, [music]
0:43which decides when your brain releases
0:45things like melatonin, cortisol,
0:47adrenaline, and dopamine. [music] And
0:48so, I can show you based on your
0:50chronotype when it's bedtime, but also
0:52the perfect time of day to do almost any
0:54activity. Including the perfect [music]
0:56time to have coffee and alcohol.
0:58>> Crazy.
0:59>> There's even data to show that your
1:01ability to understand complicated
1:03concepts [music] improves when you're
1:05more in line with your chronotype. Now,
1:07there are three known chronotypes, but
1:08what I'm famous for [music] is
1:09discovering a fourth one, which I think
1:12might be you. So, we're going to talk a
1:14lot about that. We're also going to talk
1:15about dreams because dreams [music] can
1:17tell you things about yourself that you
1:19may not want to know. And then there's
1:20how to fix jet lag, whether you should
1:22sleep with a TV [music] on, the truth
1:23about melatonin supplementation, and my
1:25favorite way to get magnesium.
1:27>> Before we get into all of that, shall we
1:28go and look at the best possible sleep
1:30position?
1:31>> Yeah, let's check it out.
1:35>> Guys, I've got a quick favor to ask you.
1:36We're approaching a significant
1:38subscriber milestone on this show and
1:40roughly 69% of you that listen and love
1:42this show haven't yet subscribed for
1:44whatever reason. If there was ever a
1:46time for you to do us a favor, if we've
1:48ever done anything for you, giving you
1:50value in any way, it is simply hitting
1:52that subscribe button. And it means so
1:54much to myself, but also to my team cuz
1:55when we hit these milestones, we go away
1:56as a team and celebrate. And it's the
1:58thing, the simple, free, easy thing you
1:59can do to help make this show a little
2:01bit better every single week. So, that's
2:04a favor I would ask you. And um if you
2:06do hit the subscribe button, I won't let
2:08you down and we'll continue to find
2:09small ways to make this whole production
2:11better. Thank you so much for being part
2:13of this journey. Means the world. And uh
2:15yeah, let's do this.
2:18>> [music]
2:19[singing]
2:20>> Dr. Bruce, yes.
2:23What is it you do?
2:24Why does it matter so much now?
2:27And what perspective do you take on what
2:29you do that is atypical versus other
2:32people I might have spoken to about this
2:34subject?
2:35>> I'm a sleep doctor. Um I take care of
2:37people's sleep problems like apnea,
2:39narcolepsy, insomnia, things like that.
2:42I've dedicated a good portion of my
2:43career not just to understanding how to
2:46treat those disorders, which are sleep
2:48disorders, but what I also I call
2:50disordered sleep. I'm really interested
2:52in behavioral habits, what's going on,
2:55what are the things that you might be
2:56doing right now that are kind of messing
2:58up your sleep that are easy to fix um
3:00and be able to maybe change how things
3:02are going forward. You know, I I didn't
3:04start out thinking I was going to become
3:05a sleep doctor. If I'm going to be
3:07honest with you. Like that that was not
3:08on the on the path. Um I was actually
3:10going in a completely different
3:12direction. And
3:13one of the things I really discovered
3:15was when you change someone's sleep,
3:17dude, you change their life. Like it is
3:19fundamental to who they are. And it's
3:22important for me to be a sleep educator
3:24in a way, shape, and form that's
3:25practical so that people can actually
3:27get something from what I'm talking
3:28about and apply it right then and there.
3:30>> And there's probably a couple of million
3:32people that have clicked onto this
3:33conversation to listen.
3:34>> Yeah.
3:35>> Who is this conversation for?
3:37>> I think it's for anybody out there who's
3:39either curious about sleep or wants to
3:41try to improve their sleep or maybe
3:43suspicious that they could have a
3:44problem with their sleep. I think any
3:46one of those three types of people would
3:48find tremendous value here.
3:49>> And what What going to be able to do for
3:50those people today?
3:52>> Specifically.
3:52>> So, I'm going to give people um several
3:54different like plans, if you will. Maybe
3:57even a five-step plan of things that
3:58they can absolutely learn how to do.
4:00They're also going to learn about a
4:01genetic sleep code that they have inside
4:03them called their chronotype. A lot of
4:05people don't even know that they have a
4:06chronotype, or maybe they've heard of
4:08the of the idea, but they haven't ever
4:10heard of the term. We're going to learn
4:11a lot about that. We're also going to
4:13talk about dreams a little bit. I'm
4:15excited to have the opportunity to do
4:17that. I've spent the last year and a
4:18half learning more about how to use
4:20dreams in my clinical work as a
4:22psychologist, which is very interesting
4:24stuff. So, I'm excited to share some of
4:26that. So, I think people are going to
4:27learn a whole bunch.
4:28>> And dreams matter?
4:29>> Oh, yeah. They absolutely matter. I I
4:31call dreams emotional metabolism, right?
4:34And so, when you're dreaming, what is
4:36you what is the function? What is the
4:38purpose? What are you doing? You're
4:39actually working through your emotional
4:41states that you had during the daytime.
4:44Um this is why we have nightmares,
4:45right? And so, in a nightmare, it's a
4:47scary scene, and all of a sudden it gets
4:48so emotional, you wake up. That is
4:51officially called a nightmare, that
4:53awakening, but you stop processing. And
4:55when you go back to sleep, you go back
4:57to the dream, and you get to that scary
4:58point,
4:59you wake up again, and you get caught in
5:01this loop, right? And so, dreams matter
5:03because they can be incredibly
5:05disruptive. Also, they can tell you
5:07things about yourself that you may not
5:10want to know or may not have in the
5:12front of your mind at all times, right?
5:14Sometimes people have very interesting
5:15dreams, like dreams of being chased or
5:17dreams of their teeth falling out or all
5:19these different things, and they can
5:20mean a whole host of different things.
5:22But, I want to be super clear. There's
5:24no guidebook that says, "Hey, you know,
5:26if you're if you're dreaming of that
5:27you're in water, you hate your mother."
5:29Like, it doesn't really work that way.
5:31Dreams mean something to the dreamer.
5:33And so, the goal is to understand the
5:34context within that. So, who is the
5:37dreamer? What is the dream? And then,
5:39how do those two work together?
5:41>> And what is the experience that you're
5:43drawing from academically, but also
5:45professionally? Give me a a view of how
5:47many people you've worked with and the
5:49diseases and your the range of things
5:51people come to you with.
5:52>> Yeah, so I've been an actively
5:53practicing sleep specialist for 26
5:55years. So, I work in offices with
5:57medical doctors because I'm not a
5:59medical doctor. I have a PhD and I work
6:01with them on their patients. A lot of
6:03insomnia patients, but also the apneas,
6:05the restless legs, the narcolepsies of
6:06the world because I have kind of a
6:08unique distinction in that I'm one of
6:10168 people in the world who took the
6:12medical boards without going to medical
6:14school and passed. So, I can work within
6:17that framework and really understand a
6:18lot of what's going on. I don't
6:20prescribe medication, but if I'm honest
6:21with you, most people don't need sleep
6:23medication as far as I'm concerned. I
6:25can get them to sleep usually without
6:27any medication at all.
6:28>> And you're a psychologist as well.
6:29>> I am. I'm a clinical psychologist.
6:31>> And how does those two worlds
6:33make 1 + 1 = 3?
6:34>> Sure. So, when you talk about sleep,
6:36psychology is all over the place. I
6:38would argue 75% of the reason people
6:41don't sleep is anxiety or fear. That
6:43really falls well within the range of
6:45psychology for sure. Um, and it's
6:47different kinds of fears. It's fears
6:48that you know about that are right in
6:50your face like something that's going on
6:52in your daytime, but it could be other
6:53fears. It could be fears of your
6:54relationship. It could be financial
6:56fears. It could be a whole host of
6:57different things. So, I think there's a
6:59lot of psychology that gets to be played
7:01in all of this kind of thing.
7:02>> Look, I've got two more questions before
7:03we really get into the details,
7:04specifics, and start really helping the
7:06audience with whatever they're dealing
7:07with. The first is
7:10we have lots of props here.
7:11>> Yes.
7:12>> Give me a
7:13top line view of the types of things
7:14you're going to show me and why you've
7:16brought all of these wonderful props.
7:17>> Absolutely. So, I get asked a lot of
7:19questions as you might imagine. And um,
7:21one of the big questions that I get
7:22asked is what bed and pillow should I
7:25buy? So, sitting next to you is a large
7:27stack of pillows, all different types
7:28actually, and I want to be able to show
7:30some of your viewers how you look at
7:32pillows and which pillows make sense for
7:34which people. Believe it or not, there's
7:36like a fitting process. We're going to
7:37go through that. This device right here
7:39is a sleep test, believe it or not. So,
7:41it used to be we'd have to send you to
7:43the hospital. Yeah, you can unwind it.
7:45Uh you have to send you to the hospital,
7:47we'd put 27 electrodes all over your
7:49body, respiratory belts across your
7:51chest, we'd have cameras zoomed in on
7:52you, and then by the way, you're
7:54supposed to be able to go to sleep,
7:55right? And we're supposed to be able to
7:56monitor to you. Now, historically we
7:58were able to do that pretty well, but
8:00once COVID hit, nobody wanted to sleep
8:02in the same bed that somebody else had
8:03been sleeping in the day before. So, now
8:05we have what are called HSTs or home
8:07sleep tests.
8:08>> Wow.
8:09>> Yeah, we'll talk about how to use it and
8:11and what it can tell you.
8:12>> My last question before we get into the
8:13details is what are the most popular
8:16questions that people come to you with
8:18as a sleep doctor?
8:19>> Yeah. So, I'd say there's probably three
8:21biggies, right? Number one is, "Hey Dr.
8:24Bruce, I fall asleep just fine, but I
8:27wake up somewhere between 1 and 3:00 in
8:29the morning, and it either takes me 20
8:31minutes or 3 hours to fall back asleep.
8:33What the heck is going on there?"
8:35>> And you can help people with that.
8:36>> Absolutely. I'm going to give everybody
8:38a exactly what I do in clinic. Like, I'm
8:40going to explain to everybody exactly
8:42what I say to my patients and how to go
8:44about getting through that particular
8:45problem because it's it's so flagrant,
8:47everybody needs to know how to how to
8:49work with that. The second question
8:51would be um what bed should I buy or
8:53what pillow should I buy? I think we're
8:54going to address that over here. Um and
8:57then another one that people ask me all
8:59the time is, you know,
9:02is there some kind of timing? Is there
9:04something like I feel like my body is
9:05off. They say this all the time. They're
9:07like, "If I just lived in a different
9:09time zone, I feel like everything would
9:10work out well."
9:12>> So, the very basics of sleep. Uh-huh.
9:15What do I need to know about what sleep
9:16is, the role it serves for us to even
9:19understand the context of the things
9:20we're going to talk about today?
9:21>> Yep. There's only a few things that are
9:22truly important to understand about
9:24sleep. One is how does sleep work in the
9:26brain? It turns out that there's two
9:28separate systems in the brain. One is
9:30you called your sleep drive, the other
9:32is called your sleep rhythm, and they
9:33both work uh in an interesting way.
9:35They're both a little bit like hunger,
9:37right? So, sleep drive is like hunger
9:38cuz like I'm hungry, I'm hungry, I'm
9:39hungry. I eat something and that hunger
9:41begins to dissipate. Same holds true
9:43with sleep. The longer you stay awake,
9:45the more the more sleepy that you get.
9:47When you look at it from a biology
9:48standpoint, it's kind of interesting.
9:49So, when a cell eats a piece of glucose,
9:51something comes out the back end. One of
9:53those things is called adenosine. It
9:54works its way through your system and
9:56goes to a very specific receptor area.
9:58As adenosine accumulates, you get
10:00sleepier and sleepier and sleepier. Now,
10:02why am I going into so much detail?
10:04Turns out when you look at adenosine and
10:06you look at caffeine, they're off by one
10:08molecule.
10:09So, here's a little tip or trick early
10:12in the pod for everyone. I call it the
10:15nap-a-latte. So, what you do is you take
10:17a cup of drip black coffee, just throw
10:20in couple ice cubes, right? Merely to
10:22cool it down. Drink it as fast as you
10:24can, then immediately take a 25-minute
10:26nap. The adenosine that's built up in
10:28your brain will burn through while
10:30you're napping. Caffeine, since it's so
10:32close in molecular structure, can fit
10:34into that receptor site. It any new
10:37adenosine, you're good for 4 hours,
10:39guaranteed. I use it with every CEO that
10:42I work with. So, let's say you only got
10:433 hours of sleep the other night and
10:45you've got a big presentation to do or
10:47an award ceremony or something like
10:48that, you can do a nap-a-latte for about
10:5025 minutes or so and you will feel much
10:54better. That's sleep drive.
10:56>> Let me just do
10:57>> Sure.
10:57>> I want to make sure everybody understand
10:58this. Can you explain this to me again
11:00as if I'm a 16-year-old? Why having a
11:03coffee and then taking a nap would make
11:06me feel energetic? Because one would
11:08think that having a coffee and taking a
11:10nap would be like uh
11:11>> Would be almost impossible, right?
11:13>> Yeah.
11:13>> So, number one, the caffeine doesn't
11:14kick in before the end of the nap. So, a
11:17lot of people think when I drink coffee,
11:19boom, it just kind of
11:20spins up and all of a sudden I'm able
11:22to, you know, I get a lot of energy from
11:23it. That's really not actually how
11:25caffeine works. It has to go down, has
11:26to get absorbed, has to be digested. And
11:28so, while all that's going on, which
11:30takes approximately 25 to 30 minutes,
11:32you're actually taking a nap to lower
11:34the amount of adenosine that has built
11:36up in your brain. Let's say it's 2:00 in
11:38the afternoon and you only slept for 4
11:40hours and you are dragging, right? All
11:43that adenosine that's built up, when you
11:44take that 25-minute nap, you'll burn
11:46through a lot of it and then caffeine
11:48fits in and blocks any additional
11:50adenosine from coming in. So that way,
11:53you're actually adding caffeine to the
11:55situation and boom, your energy goes
11:57straight up.
11:57>> Okay, so adenosine is makes me tired.
12:00>> Exactly.
12:01>> docked in my brain.
12:02>> Exactly.
12:03>> So I have 4 hours sleep, which means
12:05there's lots of adenosine. And sleep get
12:07clears the adenosine.
12:09>> Correct. And then caffeine comes in cuz
12:10it fits so perfectly into that receptor
12:12site and off you go.
12:14That's sleep drive. Sleep rhythm has to
12:17do with your circadian rhythm, right?
12:18[clears throat] And so lots of lots of
12:20information about that, but basically
12:22your circadian rhythm is also a lot like
12:24hunger, right? You ever notice you're
12:25hungry around breakfast time, around
12:26lunch time, around dinner time, right?
12:28That's your circadian rhythm for hunger.
12:30For sleep, most people, at least here in
12:32North America, have a tendency to fall
12:34asleep somewhere between like 10:30 and
12:3611:00, 11:30 at night. So that's kind of
12:38the circadian rhythm there. So when your
12:40circadian rhythm is high and your drive
12:42is high, you sleep. But if either one of
12:44them is off, that's when you have a
12:46sleep disorder or disordered sleep.
12:48>> My circadian rhythm is high.
12:50>> When your circadian rhythm is on point.
12:52>> On point.
12:52>> High is probably not the right word. On
12:53point, so meaning you are abiding by
12:56your circadian rhythm. Now, another
12:58question you might say to me is, well,
12:59how do I know what my circadian rhythm
13:00is? And we're going to talk a lot about
13:02chronotypes cuz that's what your
13:03circadian rhythm is.
13:04>> Okay, so let's do chronotypes then.
13:05You've got some cards in front of you.
13:07>> I do.
13:07I kind of like these cards. So when we
13:09talk about chronotypes, a lot of people
13:12may have heard of the idea but not
13:15actually heard the term chronotype
13:17before. So if anybody out there has ever
13:19been called an early bird or a night
13:20owl, those are chronotypes. So we've got
13:23early birds. These are people who, by
13:25the way, this is genetic. You don't have
13:27You don't actually get to choose this.
13:29There's a special area on your genome
13:31called the PER3
13:32area. And when you have something called
13:34a single nucleotide polymorphism, or a
13:36snip, if it's flipped one way, you're an
13:39early bird. If it's flipped another way,
13:40you're a night owl. If it's not flipped,
13:43you're in the middle, okay? So, so far,
13:45I haven't told anybody anything new.
13:46Like, this is this is all stuff that
13:48we've already learned. The new part is
13:50this irregularity that seems to happen
13:53for people during for their sleep
13:55schedule. Specifically, an irregularity
13:57in their melatonin and cortisol
13:59production. So, all of this is
14:01predicated on when does your body make
14:03melatonin? So, if you're an early bird,
14:05your body makes melatonin earlier in the
14:07night, starting at around 8:00 in the
14:09evening. Makes you want to go to bed
14:11around 9:30. You have a question?
14:12>> So, melatonin is a hormone
14:13>> It is.
14:14>> that
14:15>> It's produced inside of your body that
14:17actually helps you sleep. It guides It
14:19tells your body when it's bedtime, which
14:22is a little bit different than the
14:23adenosine, which makes you feel sleepy.
14:25>> I guess people listening now would be
14:27asking themselves, why does it matter to
14:28know my chronotype? Like, as it relates
14:30to my productivity, the way I live my
14:31life, my relationships, whatever matters
14:33to me. Why does it matter?
14:34>> Because I can show you, based on your
14:36chronotype, the perfect time of day to
14:38do almost any activity. So, if you If
14:41you know when your body is doing certain
14:43things, when it has melatonin, or when
14:45it has cortisol, or adrenaline, or all
14:46these other things, if you know the
14:48schedule, you can actually just change
14:50your activity to when your body is
14:52naturally producing the hormone, and
14:54then you do the hormone better.
14:55>> Okay.
14:56>> So, let's talk about the easy one, which
14:58is sex, right? So, a lot of people want
15:00to know, "Hey, Michael, what's the best
15:01time to have sex?" By the way, I think
15:03that might be the third question that I
15:04get asked most um often, other than uh
15:07the insomnia one and the mattress one. I
15:09think is, "What's the best time for
15:10sex?" might be the the other question
15:11that I get asked more than anything.
15:13>> if you the time you want to have sex and
15:14the time your partner wants to have sex
15:16are off.
15:16>> Well, think about it like this. What if
15:18your partner's an early bird and you're
15:20a night owl?
15:21>> Yeah, I think that's me.
15:23>> Don't worry, we're going to we're going
15:24to be able to fix you. So, first of all,
15:26there's a couple of different answers to
15:27this question. So, number one is you
15:30want to have a time So, first of all,
15:31most people are intimate between 10:30
15:33and 11:30 at night. That's just a survey
15:35that we did. So, it makes kind of a lot
15:37of sense. But, here's what's interesting
15:38is your hormone profile doesn't look too
15:40good at 11:30 at night for having sex.
15:43In order to have successful sex, you
15:44want to have estrogen, testosterone,
15:46progesterone, adrenaline, and cortisol
15:48all to be high, and melatonin to be low.
15:51>> Mhm.
15:51>> What do you think your hormone profile
15:52looks like at 10:30 at night? It's
15:54literally the opposite, right? Melatonin
15:56is high, and all those other things are
15:57low. That's hint number one as to when
16:00would probably be the best time to have
16:01sex. Hint number two, if you happen to
16:04be having sex with somebody who was born
16:05biologically male, what do most men wake
16:07up with in the morning?
16:09An erection. If that's not Mother Nature
16:11telling you when to use that thing, I
16:12don't know what is, right? So, when you
16:15start to look at it, and we actually did
16:17the surveys, we discovered that people
16:19actually have greater connection and
16:21greater performance in their sex when
16:24they have sex in the morning time. Now,
16:26do you have to brush your teeth and
16:27throw in a little mouthwash first? Yes,
16:29of course you do. Like, let's be fair to
16:30your partner here. But, you end up
16:33learning quite a bit. Again, your body
16:35is telling you this is actually the
16:36perfect time to do something like this.
16:39Did you know there's like a perfect time
16:40to have coffee?
16:42>> I didn't.
16:42>> Yeah, there's absolutely a perfect time
16:44based on your chronotype, too. One of
16:46the first things that I ask people all
16:47the time, I'll ask you, um is the first
16:49liquid that crosses over your lips in
16:51the morning caffeinated?
16:52>> Yes.
16:53>> So, let's talk about why that's probably
16:55not the best idea. So, most people don't
16:58know, sorry. Most people don't know, but
17:00uh sleeping in and of itself is a
17:01dehydrative event. You lose almost a
17:04full liter of water just from the
17:06humidity in your breath by by breathing
17:09all night long. Caffeine is a diuretic,
17:11which means it makes you have to go pee.
17:13So, when you're already lost a liter,
17:15now you add a couple of cups of
17:17caffeine, which makes you have to pee,
17:19you're going to turn into a raisin
17:21before this whole thing is through,
17:22okay? So, we need to get some water
17:24inside of you. And so, one of the big
17:25recommendations that I give all of my
17:27patients is don't have caffeine for the
17:29first 90 minutes you're awake. Now,
17:33you're going to sit here and say,
17:35"90 minutes, that's Michael, that's a
17:37long time not to have any caffeine.
17:39Like, how am I going to do that? Like,
17:40I've got my morning routine. I can smell
17:41the coffee in the morning. It smells so
17:43good. Everything's going. How's How's
17:44this going to work?" Let me explain the
17:46biology. In order to exit a state of
17:48unconsciousness, you need two hormones
17:50and then you need a lot of them. You
17:51need adrenaline and cortisol and they
17:52both wake you up. When you have a brain
17:55that's full of adrenaline and cortisol
17:56and you add caffeine to it, it's like
17:59it's like adding weak tea to somebody
18:01who's taking cocaine.
18:02Okay? It's not a very powerful stimulant
18:05compared to the hormones that are in
18:06your brain that are a powerful
18:08stimulant. But, if you just wait 90
18:11minutes, cortisol and adrenaline
18:12naturally drop. If you have your
18:14caffeine then, it actually boosts the
18:16cortisol and gives you a bigger bang for
18:19your buck.
18:20So, you hydrate before you caffeinate.
18:23And about the amount, somewhere between
18:2515 and 20 oz of water. If you can get
18:27that down in the first hour and a half
18:29that you're awake,
18:29>> What's that in
18:31English terms?
18:31>> Oh, I don't know what the We'll have to
18:33look it up.
18:33>> cup? Is it two cups?
18:34>> Oh, I would say it's probably three to
18:36four cups of water.
18:38>> Okay, well, I'll look it up.
18:39>> Well, don't forget you've lost a lot of
18:41water while you're sleeping and you
18:43might have lost it the previous day
18:44because let's say you worked out or
18:46things like that.
18:47>> So, let's get into these chronotypes
18:48then.
18:48>> Yeah. So, let's start off with the lion.
18:51So, lions are my early birds. Um you
18:54know you've got a lion in your midst
18:55when you get an email at 6:00 a.m.
18:58Right? That's somebody who's been up for
18:59a while and who's got their brain kind
19:01of cooking. Um lions like to make a list
19:03and go from step one to step two to step
19:05three every single day. They get a lot
19:07of confidence and they get a lot of
19:09pleasure following uh this list. But, if
19:11I'm honest with you, being a lion isn't
19:13all it's cracked up to be because dinner
19:15and a movie is out for a lot They've
19:17been up since like 4:30, 5:00 in the
19:19morning, right? They don't want to go
19:20see a concert late at night. They want
19:22to go to bed at like 8:30, 9:00. So,
19:25when you're looking at lions or what I
19:27early birds what I call lions, they've
19:29got some very interesting
19:30characteristics. They make up between 10
19:31and 15% of the population. From a
19:34biological characteristic standpoint,
19:36their melatonin stops early and their
19:38cortisol starts early. So, their
19:41melatonin stops at about 4:30, 5:00 in
19:43the morning and that's when cortisol
19:44starts and that's the reason why they
19:46wake up so early.
19:47>> What sort of window do do lions wake up
19:49in?
19:49>> So, it's interesting because I've got
19:51some lions who are kind of extreme like
19:52they're getting up at 4:30 in the
19:54morning, which is not really probably
19:56the best idea. But generally speaking,
19:58my lions get up right around 5:00, 5:15
20:01up until about 6:00, 6:30. They are
20:03definitely my early risers. They have a
20:05small breakfast. They don't like to eat
20:07a lot of food early in the in the
20:08morning time because a lot of these
20:09people like to go work out fairly
20:11quickly after they've after they've
20:13woken up, which is very different than
20:15some of my other chronotypes. My night
20:17owls don't like to work out in the
20:18morning. They don't like to do anything
20:19in the morning. So, my lions like to
20:21work out early in the morning, a light
20:23breakfast, and also their best work
20:25window is usually somewhere between like
20:279:30 and 11:30. Like that's when all the
20:29good stuff gets done. Like when they
20:31have if they have to get details or they
20:33have to do brainstorming or things like
20:35that, that's really kind of where a lot
20:36of the magic happens for them. By about
20:392:00 in the afternoon, there's not a lot
20:41of stuff left inside the lion to be able
20:43to do do a lot of good things. That's
20:45when I have lions do more physical
20:47activities that don't require a lot of
20:48cognition. So, maybe you go for an
20:50afternoon walk or maybe you have you
20:52know, your your meeting with your folks
20:54that may not be really detail oriented
20:56but more process oriented in the
20:58afternoon.
20:58>> Admin and stuff.
20:59>> Yeah, absolutely. I actually had one
21:02fellow chronotype his entire company and
21:05and move meetings based on who was going
21:07to be in the meeting. Like if like he
21:09had all the early birds and he had
21:11meeting at 8:00 in the morning and then
21:12all the night owls he had a meeting at
21:144:00 in the afternoon. He said it was
21:15amazing. He said it worked out really
21:17really well. Wow.
21:18>> What's the next one?
21:19>> So the next one is the bear. So bears
21:22are representative of people that are in
21:24between early birds and night owls,
21:26right? So bears are the best. Honestly,
21:29dude, I wish I was a bear because the
21:30whole schedule of life works on a bear
21:32schedule. 9:00 to 5:00 is perfect for a
21:35bear and they make up between 50 and 55%
21:38of the population. So literally one out
21:39of two people is a bear.
21:41>> And when's their peak work time?
21:44>> So their peak work time has a tendency
21:45to be sort of in the noon to 2:00 range.
21:48Um they're a little bit later than what
21:50you would see with the lion. Some of
21:51them I think can actually be better at
21:5311:00. It's kind of interesting. We've
21:54had almost 3 million people take the
21:56quiz and we've discovered that inside of
21:58bears there appear to be early bears and
22:00later bears. So there are people who
22:02fall into that category but like to get
22:04up a little bit earlier. So for them
22:05their productivity window is probably
22:0710:30 11:00 but for the later bears it's
22:09more like 11:30 12:00 and then it's
22:11about a 2-hour window after that.
22:13>> For the people listening, um on screen
22:15at the moment is a grid showing you the
22:18different chronotypes, the wake times,
22:20the peak work window and the sort of
22:21afternoon slump time. What's the next
22:24chronotype?
22:25>> So the next chronotype is me, the wolf.
22:27>> I think I'm a wolf.
22:28>> [laughter]
22:29>> You might be a wolf.
22:30>> I love lions, I think I'm a wolf.
22:32>> All right, well you might be. Hey, look,
22:33join me. It'd be great. So wolves
22:35represent the night owls, right? And so
22:38wolves are my artists, my actors, my
22:41creatives. If you know a creative, when
22:43do they get their biggest idea? It's not
22:452:00 in the afternoon, it's 2:00 in the
22:47morning. Wolves are my highest risk
22:49takers. I know that that probably you
22:51fall into that category as well. Wolves
22:53are the folks that show up at the party
22:55at 11:00 at night but they stay till
22:572:00 in the morning and they help you
22:58clean up and they hate mornings more
23:01than anything.
23:02>> Mhm.
23:03>> So should [clears throat] we talk about
23:03dolphins?
23:04>> What's the next one? Yeah.
23:05>> Dolphins. This is the category that you
23:07fell into. So, let's talk about who are
23:09the dolphins and and what does this
23:10actually represent? So, dolphins are
23:13usually highly intelligent. They're
23:14usually people who are fast-talking,
23:17well-read. These are people who are a
23:18lot like a lion in terms of they like to
23:21get up. They crave longer bouts of
23:23sleep, but unfortunately, their body
23:25just doesn't have a long sleep drive.
23:27And so, they get really frustrated a lot
23:29of times. Um also, I think they have
23:31just a teeny bit of anxiety behind them.
23:33So, a lot of them for example, the
23:35details really matter to a dolphin,
23:37right? Versus other people where details
23:40might not matter nearly as much. I think
23:41a lot of my dolphins have got just a
23:43little bit of obsessive-compulsive
23:45disorder. So, they're kind of focused in
23:47on the on the different things. Like, if
23:49I ask a dolphin to do a project,
23:51generally speaking, they're never
23:52finished with it until I say, "Can you
23:54just give me the project back now?"
23:55Because they're always working on a
23:57little detail here or working on a
23:58detail there. Um but, my favorite
24:01they're the people that I actually wrote
24:02the book for. They're the ones that I I
24:04enjoy working with the most um because
24:06they're actually the easiest to work
24:08with because we can once I explain to
24:10them how their hormones can be up and
24:11down and sideways, it can it starts to
24:13make a lot more sense for them.
24:15>> And for anyone trying to figure out
24:17which one of these they are, where do
24:18they go to do the test and how long does
24:20it take?
24:20>> Yeah, you can go to my website. It's
24:22called chronoquiz.com.
24:25Uh and uh it takes about 3-4 minutes.
24:26It's not very long at all. It's going to
24:28ask you a bunch of questions about your
24:29sleep, about timing, things like that.
24:31>> Okay, I'll put that in the description.
24:32So, after you finish listening, you can
24:34all go take it. And let me know your
24:35thoughts in the comment section as well.
24:36So, once you figure out what your
24:37chronotype is, come back to the episode
24:39and and let me know below.
24:40>> Please.
24:40>> And does my sleep change with age,
24:43Michael?
24:43>> It does. Absolutely.
24:45>> So, do my do my chronotypes change with
24:46age?
24:47>> They do, actually. So, believe it or
24:49not, you've gone through all the
24:50chronotypes already. When you're an
24:52itty-bitty baby, you're a lion. You go
24:54to bed really early. You wake up really
24:56early, right? Then you're a toddler,
24:58right? And in in like grammar school,
25:00you're a bear, you're going to bed
25:01around 7:30, you're waking up around
25:027:30. Then adolescence hits, right? What
25:05do you want to do? Stay up until
25:07midnight and sleep until 2:00, right?
25:09You become a wolf. Then at about 23, 24,
25:12your chronotype has tendency to set into
25:14one of those three or four things, and
25:17then you stay there for an extended
25:18period of time like 25, 30 years, until
25:21you hit my age. So, I'm going to be 58
25:23soon, and right when you hit in the mid
25:2550s, what we see is melatonin production
25:28can either slow down or get earlier. So,
25:31as an example, if your parents are still
25:33alive and you said, "Hey Mom, Dad, I
25:34want to go for dinner." What time would
25:36they want to go for dinner?
25:37>> Early.
25:38>> Right. 4:00 in the afternoon, 4:30 in
25:39the afternoon. You're like, "What is
25:40wrong with you, Mom? What's going on?"
25:42That's the her chronotype is going
25:44backwards, and your sleep changes over
25:46the course of time. To be clear, at once
25:48you hit like age probably 50, 45 or 50,
25:51we start to see a slow down in
25:53production of melatonin. We also see an
25:55increase in what are called EEG
25:56arousals, so things that break up your
25:59sleep and make it so it's not so
26:00continuous. That can be problematic, as
26:02well. So, there's a lot of things that
26:03can happen as you age.
26:04>> So, do I start sleeping less as I get
26:06older?
26:06>> You start sleeping a poorer quality. I'm
26:08not convinced that it's always less.
26:10>> I mean, it's not going to make me
26:11grumpy.
26:12>> Yes, it is.
26:13>> Really?
26:13>> Absolutely. Poor quality sleep is I
26:15would argue is much worse than poor
26:16quantity sleep. I I would rather I've
26:19got somebody who got 5 hours of really
26:21great sleep versus 7 hours of really
26:23light crappy sleep, every time.
26:26>> Does that mean that as I get older I'm
26:27going to be more grumpy?
26:30>> It depends on the quality of your sleep.
26:31So, what I can teach you is how to not
26:34get poor quality sleep as you age.
26:36Perfect example, a lot of folks who are
26:38a little bit on the older side are used
26:39to drinking coffee late in the day.
26:41Well, if you change that habit, then you
26:42don't [clears throat] have as many sleep
26:43problems.
26:44>> And I shouldn't I shouldn't be having
26:44coffee late in the day at all.
26:46>> Probably, you want to stop by about 2:00
26:48p.m.
26:49Right? So, if you stop around 2:00 p.m.,
26:50the half-life of caffeine is between 6
26:52and 8 hours. So, 8 hours later is
26:54roughly 10:00, which is roughly when
26:56people are kind of wanting to go to
26:57sleep. So, I would say that that would
26:59probably be the the time to do it.
27:01>> I think about my siblings and us all
27:02being woken up for school, and I think
27:04about my performance in school,
27:06and of all my siblings, there's four of
27:08us,
27:09>> Uh-huh.
27:09>> I was the one that always struggled with
27:11being woken up in the morning, in part
27:12because I'd gone to bed later,
27:14>> Yeah.
27:14>> but then I was also the one that
27:15struggled with school the most.
27:17>> Yeah, that characteristic of a wolf,
27:19characteristic of this night person. If
27:22I'm honest with you, dude, like most
27:24kids should not be waking up at the time
27:25they're waking up to go to school,
27:27right? I mean, so many kids are waking
27:28up at real like, you know, 5:30, 6:00 in
27:31the morning. They have an hour-long bus
27:33ride, then they get there, and if you're
27:34an adolescent, I don't think anything
27:36could be worse,
27:38>> No, yeah.
27:38>> right? So, we have to really start to
27:40try to be a little bit more thoughtful
27:42and look at like what are some of the
27:43activities that kids are doing, how can
27:45we get them to maybe take naps during
27:46the day if they need them. Um athletic
27:48performance can depend on sleep,
27:50academic performance can depend on
27:51sleep. It's It's unbelievable all the
27:53different things.
27:53>> Yes.
27:54>> Has there ever been any research done
27:56>> There has.
27:56>> on different chronotypes academic
27:58performance?
27:59>> There has been, actually. They haven't
28:00They labeled it directly as chronotypes,
28:02but they've looked at it based on age
28:04range, and we know that, for example,
28:06here in the United States, there's a big
28:08push for to change school start times.
28:11So, that way high schoolers don't
28:12starting at 7:00 in the morning, because
28:14high schools shouldn't be starting at
28:157:00 in the morning. Preschoolers should
28:17be starting at 7:00 in the morning,
28:19because their body naturally wakes up at
28:20that time. So, we've actually seen There
28:22was a great study um that was done at
28:24the University of Minnesota that
28:26discovered that um when they just had
28:28people come in 1 hour later from their
28:30first period, they improved by one full
28:33letter grade, meaning they went from
28:35being C students to being B students, or
28:37from B students to A students, merely by
28:40changing the timing of their first
28:42class. So, that should give you pretty
28:44good insight as to sort of these big
28:47area like and and all children are
28:49vulnerable to this. Like this is not
28:51like I'm not telling you anything that's
28:53new. This is These are studies that have
28:54been going on for quite a while and
28:56there's actually a whole movement trying
28:57to get school start times to to slow
28:59down now.
29:01>> Looking at some of the research here it
29:02says research consistently shows that
29:04morning types, which is the
29:06>> lion
29:07>> the lion earn higher grades not due to
29:09higher IQ but because exams are
29:10scheduled during their peak alertness
29:12windows.
29:12>> You got it.
29:13>> That's crazy.
29:14>> Sometimes wolves turn out to be much
29:16smarter but because they're they can't
29:18perform at those early times nobody
29:20knows. Remember wolves are my creatives.
29:22Like where do you think some of these
29:23create great creative innovations and
29:25ideas come from in the tech world,
29:27right? Like these are the wolves that
29:29are out there that are up late at night
29:31coding and trying to figure out what's
29:32going on.
29:34It's pretty cool when you think about
29:35it.
29:36>> And I just this is thing called the
29:37synchronous synchrony effect from a
29:39study in 2020 where nearly 800 students
29:42found a clear synchrony effect. Students
29:45perform significantly better when their
29:47class schedule matched their chronotype.
29:49>> Exactly.
29:50>> Those morning people dominated in
29:51morning classes and and the owls um or
29:54the wolves
29:54often caught up and outperformed the
29:57morning people when tested in the
29:58afternoon or evening.
29:59>> Exactly.
30:01It's pretty fascinating. Now think about
30:03it like this. Could you imagine a school
30:04system where if we identified children's
30:07chronotypes during their particular age
30:08range and then we change the testing so
30:10that they got tested when they're at
30:11their peak hours
30:12>> Yeah, be
30:13>> they'd actually do better.
30:14>> People don't know this but I never do
30:15pod podcasts in the morning morning.
30:17>> I don't blame you.
30:18>> ever
30:19>> You shouldn't.
30:20>> Yeah.
30:20>> It's it's not your time, yeah. Right?
30:22Like you have a very specific subscribe
30:24time that I think works well for you. So
30:26I think you should abide by that.
30:28>> Duration of sleep. There's lots of
30:29conversation around how long you're
30:31supposed to sleep for. What what's the
30:32truth here?
30:33>> 8 hours is a myth.
30:34Let's be fair. Like we came up with that
30:36from like the 30s. There was a great
30:38study at Stanford that came up with 8
30:40hours and 13 minutes plus or minus and
30:42that's kind of where we came up with
30:44that as an idea. The truth of the matter
30:45is somewhere between 7 and 9 hours
30:48really is kind of the amount that people
30:50should be looking for, but some people
30:52don't have that luxury. Some people
30:53don't have that much time that they can
30:55put towards sleep and so they get a
30:57little bit less sleep. But for the lower
31:00level limit, I don't like anybody
31:02getting less than 6 hours. When somebody
31:04gets less than 6 hours sleep, their
31:05driving is off and so you can't operate
31:07machinery. So if you're driving to work
31:09or God forbid carpooling your kids to
31:11school and you're only you only got you
31:13know less than 6 hours of sleep on on
31:15board, it's probably not going to go
31:16well.
31:17>> We we do have to stop here and talk
31:18about parents because listen, you're
31:20either a parent now, you might be
31:22someday.
31:22>> Absolutely.
31:23>> Maybe you won't be, but for those I've
31:25just got huge amount of respect for
31:26parents because
31:27you know, I've gone I'm not a parent
31:28yet. I hope I will become one. But when
31:31I see what my brother, who has three
31:33kids under the age of what, seven now?
31:36>> Ooh.
31:36>> Um
31:37>> How much sleep has [clears throat] he
31:37lost?
31:38>> [laughter]
31:39>> A lot. And and and his wife as well. But
31:42um
31:43you must get parents coming to you all
31:44the time being like, what the hell do I
31:45do? Like I've got the I've got to wake
31:46up when the kids wake up and but I'm
31:48it's destroying my my relationship, my
31:50marriage, my sex, whatever it might be.
31:52>> Yeah, so parenting children and sleep
31:54are difficult to coexist, but they're
31:57not impossible. It really has to do with
31:59discipline and kind of thinking through
32:01some ideas for yourself. When my So I
32:03have a 23-year-old son and a 22-year-old
32:06daughter. So I'm a little bit out of the
32:08the realm of having to deal with them
32:09every day. Um but I was like I said
32:11before, I was in charge of mornings uh
32:13at our house waking them up and it's a
32:15lot, right? And so the very first thing
32:17that I tried to explain to parents,
32:19especially if they have a child who has
32:21an irregular sleep pattern and is really
32:23causing chaos for the rest, like one
32:25child who won't go to sleep and is
32:26keeping every the whole house up. First
32:28thing you want to do, educate the kid,
32:31right? A lot of kids don't know what
32:32they're doing is causing a lot of
32:33problems. They they're just kids.
32:34They're just hanging out, having fun,
32:36you know, they're they've got energy.
32:37They want to be awake. So, that you want
32:39to educate them and say, "Hey, now is a
32:41particular time to wind down. This is
32:43where your body recovers. This is how
32:44you get to do sports the next day or
32:46theater the next day or Whatever your
32:48computers, whatever your thing is, you
32:50can tie it to sleep and performance
32:53pretty easily." And so, getting them to
32:55understand that becomes very, very
32:57critical. Number two is have some
32:59guidelines, right? Have bedtimes. Have
33:01wake-up times and follow them as quick
33:03as closely as you can. For parents, of
33:06oftentimes what I try to tell them to do
33:08is like, "Look, after your child goes to
33:10bed, if you've got a child that has
33:11problems for sleeping,
33:14take turns. Do what I call the on-call
33:16method. So, as a doctor, sometimes, you
33:18know, you get a call in the middle of
33:19the night cuz you get you're covering
33:20patients at the hospital for your buddy
33:22or something like that. You're on call.
33:24So, when you've got two people who are
33:25managing one child, one person handles
33:28Monday night, Wednesday night, Friday
33:29night. The other one handles Tuesday,
33:31Thursday, Saturday. You flip a coin for
33:33Sunday. So, if the kid wakes up at 2:00
33:35in the morning, both parents aren't
33:36awake. One parent has that
33:38responsibility. The other one can keep
33:40their eyes closed and go to sleep.
33:42Interesting study was done looking at
33:44men and women in bed when a child cries.
33:47So, women take care of the child,
33:50whereas men lie there and fake sleeping
33:52in order to be able to stay asleep.
33:55Right. That's problematic um in a lot of
33:58different ways.
33:58>> this study that they were fake sleeping?
33:59>> asked the men afterwards, "What were you
34:01doing?" And they all said they woke up
34:02and they were faking it. It's pretty
34:04crazy when you think about it. But, this
34:05is a big this is a big deal for parents,
34:08right? A lot of parents turn to me and
34:09they're like,
34:10"This is killing our marriage. Like, we
34:11haven't had sex in, you know, 3 years
34:13because we've got a child who Maybe the
34:15child has special needs or maybe the
34:17child doesn't have special needs, but
34:18has other things going on or maybe it's
34:19just normal development and and, you
34:21know, they're worried about it." And so,
34:23what I like to sit down with parents and
34:25do is number one, let's figure out when
34:27your kid needs to sleep and let's set
34:28some guidelines and rules. But, number
34:30two, let's do the same for you. Mhm.
34:32Right? But, a lot of parents when
34:33they're super stressed out, one of the
34:34first things they do, grab a glass of
34:36wine. Right? Wine's about the worst
34:38thing you could possibly do for sleep,
34:40to be fair. Now, I'm going to teach
34:41people how you can still have a glass or
34:43two of alcohol and not completely
34:45destroy your sleep, but I want to be
34:46very clear about something. If you're
34:48using alcohol as a stress relief tool at
34:50night before bed, it's messing up your
34:52sleep probably pretty bad.
34:54>> You might be asleep, but the quality of
34:56your sleep is [ __ ]
34:58>> It's awful. Right? And interestingly
35:00enough, during the one stage of sleep
35:02that alcohol knocks out, which is stage
35:03three and four sleep, what's the most
35:05interesting is that during that
35:07particular stage of sleep, there's
35:08something called the glymphatic system
35:10that comes in and scoops out these
35:11proteins that have a tendency to
35:12accumulate in your brain. And when
35:14proteins accumulate in your brain, they
35:16wrap around the nerves, and that's
35:17called Alzheimer's disease.
35:19>> Mhm.
35:19>> [clears throat]
35:19>> So, stage four sleep is imperative to
35:22avoid Alzheimer's disease. And when you
35:24drink alcohol, you destroy stage four
35:26sleep.
35:27>> Mhm.
35:28>> So, it would be great if nobody drank
35:30alcohol, but I'm not so stupid as to
35:32think that. Plus, I like bourbon. I like
35:34whiskey. I enjoy a glass of champagne
35:36every once in a while. So, how can you
35:38successfully still drink alcohol and
35:40still get a decent night's sleep? I'm
35:42going to give you a a quick one. Right?
35:43Let's say you're having dinner at 6:30.
35:45Have your first glass of wine, then have
35:47a glass of water, right? Then your
35:49second glass of wine starts at let's say
35:51almost 7:00, right? Then you have your
35:53second glass of water, then you stop
35:55everything by 7:30. You wait 3 hours,
35:58which would be 10:30, and then you can
35:59go to bed.
36:00>> Why the water? Why the wait?
36:02>> So, the water helps wash it through the
36:04system. Also, fills your stomach up so
36:06you don't have too much So, you you've
36:07got more fluid in there. So, that way
36:08you don't drink extra wine. Um and it
36:10makes you have to pee, which flushes the
36:12system out as well. The 3 hours
36:14>> hydrates you?
36:15>> It does.
36:16>> Okay.
36:16>> Absolutely. Because remember, wine pulls
36:19uh both magnesium and uh most water out
36:21of your system because it makes you have
36:22to go pee.
36:23>> Helps with the hangover?
36:25>> So, there's a couple of different things
36:26that I would say. Number one, this
36:28definitely helps with the hangover
36:29because you've got water going in.
36:31For a lot of my patients, what I tell
36:32them is that the very last thing that
36:34you could do is have a little bit of
36:35coconut water. So, coconut water is
36:37loaded with zinc, magnesium, and vitamin
36:39B, and those are some of the things that
36:40get pulled out of your system uh when
36:43you're drinking. By the way, did you
36:44know that there are happy hours specific
36:46to your chronotype?
36:48>> Didn't know that name.
36:49>> Yeah, so it's kind of interesting. So,
36:50here's what's cool about it is your body
36:51produces something called alcohol
36:53dehydrogenase, which is how you
36:54metabolize alcohol, but it does it at a
36:57particular time, and the time is
36:58different for each chronotype.
37:00>> Mhm.
37:01>> So, your body is most efficient at
37:03drinking between basically the hours of
37:064:00 and 8:00. Happy hour, as a lot of
37:08people know it.
37:09>> And how do you think about what time you
37:11eat at night time?
37:12>> Such a great question. So, 3 hours
37:15before bed, you want to stop fluids,
37:17including alcohol um and food. You want
37:20to just stop it all 3 hours before bed.
37:22>> Why 3 hours?
37:23>> So, it takes your body about that level
37:25of time to number one, digest, clear all
37:27the food, and then have all the
37:29mechanisms that are working towards
37:31digestion now be able to be refocused
37:33onto the recovery process of sleep.
37:35However, I I will tell you that there's
37:38this uh I've seen a couple people, and
37:39there are people out there that are
37:41claiming that if they stop eating at
37:4211:00 in the morning, that it helps
37:45their sleep dramatically at night. And
37:47it turns out it has to do with your
37:49heart rate. So, one of the big metrics
37:51that is very important that all of our
37:53viewers and listeners want to know, is
37:55you need a heart rate of 60 or below in
37:57order to enter into a state of
37:58unconsciousness. And when you've got
38:00food in your stomach,
38:01>> Yeah.
38:01>> your heart rate is up.
38:02>> That tracks.
38:03>> So, right? So, if the longer you can
38:05wait, the lower your heart rate is, the
38:07easier it gets into sleep. And so, when
38:09we're talking about So, a great example,
38:12let's get back to parents for a second,
38:13right? You feed your kids at an earlier
38:16time, and then what do you do? Oh, then
38:17you go back and have dinner with your
38:19spouse, right? Maybe that's not the best
38:21idea because you're having dinner so
38:22late. Maybe you should have dinner with
38:24your kids, right? And and enjoy that
38:26time with them and eat earlier because
38:28that gives you more space later on to be
38:30able to relax and go to bed.
38:32>> I said that tracks because I remember
38:33I've told this story once or twice
38:35before. I remember when I was doing some
38:36podcasts over here in LA and we had Seth
38:38Rogen on.
38:39>> Sure.
38:39>> And the day before in the hotel before I
38:41left here, I had a cookie from the mini
38:44bar. Like I'm going to admit it. I had
38:45the cookie.
38:46>> And they're so good.
38:47>> It was And then I went [laughter] to bed
38:49pretty quickly.
38:50>> Oh god.
38:50>> Which was just terrible. And I was
38:52looking at my Whoop the next day,
38:54hashtag ashunk. And it my heart rate
38:57>> Straight up.
38:58>> 75 or 80
39:00>> Yeah.
39:00>> for the first two to three hours after I
39:02got into bed.
39:03>> Isn't that crazy?
39:04>> And I woke up feeling like hell.
39:06>> Yep.
39:07>> Terrible day the next day. I was
39:08terrible during the conversation.
39:10>> Yeah.
39:11>> And I looked at my Whoop and go, "Oh my
39:12god, it was that cookie. It put my heart
39:14rate high."
39:14>> So, also on top of that is sugar.
39:17>> Yeah, I mean, [ __ ] me. Yeah.
39:18>> Right? So, sugar turns So, sugar
39:20actually slows production of melatonin.
39:22Remember, melatonin is kind of the key
39:23that starts the engine Yeah, the key
39:25that starts the engine for sleep.
39:26>> So, is there anything else that I can do
39:27to make sure my heart rate is low as I
39:30get into bed?
39:31>> Absolutely. Meditate.
39:33>> Okay.
39:33>> Breath work.
39:34>> All kinds of things to bring my heart
39:35rate down.
39:35>> Yeah, absolutely. So,
39:38what a lot of people don't realize is
39:39just because we're breathing doesn't
39:41mean we're actually breathing in a way,
39:42shape, and form that can be helpful for
39:44us for sleep. So, in my most recent
39:46book, Sleep Drink Breathe, I talk a lot
39:48about breath work and what is it and how
39:50does it work for you. But, I'd love to
39:52teach you my favorite form of breath
39:54work and meditation
39:56that I think you'll you'll get a lot out
39:58of. So,
39:58>> And I do this before bed.
40:00>> Exactly.
40:00>> Okay.
40:00>> And you can by the way, you can do it in
40:02the middle of the night if you wake up
40:04as well, right? So, let's talk about how
40:07to get how to fall asleep and do some
40:08relaxation exercises for that. And then
40:10I'm going to give you some different
40:11ones for in the middle of the night. So,
40:13let's talk the beginning of the night.
40:14So, number one, you need runway to land
40:17the plane. Okay? So many people think
40:20they're just waiting for their head to
40:21be bobbing in front of the TV and then
40:22they go brush their teeth and then they
40:23get in bed and then all of a sudden
40:24they're wide awake and they don't know
40:25what's going on, right? So you need time
40:28for your system to shut down. It's not
40:30an on-off switch. It's more like slowly
40:32pulling your foot off the gas and slowly
40:34putting your foot on the brake. There's
40:35a process. It should take you about 12
40:37to 15 minutes to actually fall asleep,
40:40okay? So number one, what I ask people
40:41to do is take the last hour before bed
40:43and chop it up into three 20-minute
40:45segments, right? So let's say you're
40:47going to bed at 11:00. Starting at 10:00
40:49and by the way, set an alarm on your
40:50phone to to tell you that it's 10:00
40:52because it's really easy to slide by
40:55your bedtime and then all of a sudden
40:56it's like all bets are off. So set the
40:58alarm, 20 minutes for [ __ ] you just got
41:00to do. So in our house it used to be
41:02getting backpacks together for school
41:04for our kids, finding sports equipment,
41:06maybe laying out my stuff for work the
41:07next day or getting last emails sent,
41:10something like that. 20 minutes for
41:12hygiene, right? Brush your teeth, wash
41:14your face, maybe take a shower,
41:16something along those lines. And then 20
41:17minutes for some form of meditation,
41:20relaxation, prayer. I don't care what
41:23you do, but it has to be something
41:24that's calming to get you there, okay?
41:28So my one of my favorite techniques to
41:30do is meditation. Now, I'm going to be
41:32honest with you,
41:33I'm a terrible meditator. I have never
41:35been able to do it. I've actually gotten
41:36kicked out of meditation retreats cuz
41:38I'm the guy that's like, "What's going
41:40on? Like, am I doing it right?" You
41:42know, I'm kind of that that person. And
41:43so I was I was told about this tool
41:45called a Muse headband. We have one
41:48right here.
41:49So this is my personal Muse. I actually
41:50brought it from home. And um you'll
41:52notice on the inside there are sensors
41:54here and there are sensors along the
41:56earpiece here. And so what happens is is
41:58you wear it on your head, right? And
42:01it's measuring your brainwaves. And so
42:03when we're Yeah, check it out. And so
42:04when we're when we're doing it and we're
42:06measuring brainwaves, yep, exactly. And
42:08that goes on the back part. Yeah, there
42:09you go. So what's cool about this is
42:11it's attached to an app, and then while
42:13it's measuring your brain waves, you're
42:15listening to a particular music. It
42:17could be a guided meditation, it could
42:19be any of those things. And while you're
42:20doing this,
42:22the volume gets lower. And then you know
42:24you're getting closer to a meditative
42:26state.
42:27>> The volume comes down when?
42:28>> On the app when your brain wave starts
42:30to relax.
42:31>> Oh, okay.
42:32>> So, you're immediately getting feedback.
42:33We can try it if you want.
42:35Um but it's pretty interesting. And then
42:37when you get to the alpha state, little
42:38birds start chirping.
42:40>> The alpha state?
42:41>> Yeah, the alpha state is when your eyes
42:42are closed and you're at the most
42:43relaxed state of your brain waves. It's
42:45called the alpha state. And that's
42:46really what people are trying to get to
42:48for meditation.
42:49>> And are you affiliated with this company
42:50in any way?
42:51>> I'm not.
42:51>> And how much does it cost?
42:52>> I think it's around $275.
42:55I think it's the headband.
42:57>> Okay, interesting.
42:58>> It's pretty fascinating. Um I I've been
43:00pretty impressed with them.
43:01>> So, that's meditation.
43:02>> Mhm.
43:03>> You spoke about breathwork as well
43:04before?
43:04>> Yeah, let's talk about it. So, one of
43:06the other things that I do is I do
43:07something Well, this isn't breathwork.
43:09This is called progressive muscle
43:11relaxation. So, this is where you tense
43:13and relax muscles starting from your
43:15feet and going all the way up your body.
43:17And as you tense and relax the muscles,
43:19you feel that relaxation from releasing
43:22that tension, and it helps you fall
43:23asleep. Um actually, you know what I can
43:25do is I can send you a an audio file
43:28that has me walking through progressive
43:29muscle relaxation that we can make
43:31available for everybody if you want me
43:32for free. It's no big deal.
43:34>> Amazing. I'll put that in the
43:35description below as well.
43:36>> Yeah, yeah, people will really dig it. I
43:37think they'll really enjoy it. So,
43:39that's another thing that we do. But now
43:41let's talk about the middle of the
43:42night, right? So, do By the way, do you
43:44have this as an issue? Have this Has
43:46this happened to you before?
43:47>> It happens sometimes, and it's typically
43:49when like my sleep is somewhat
43:50disordered or disruptive, or when
43:52there's really something on my mind.
43:54>> Yes. So, that that precipitory anxiety,
43:56like before flight. Like if I have a
43:588:00 in the morning flight, like I sleep
44:00like [ __ ] the night before cuz I'm
44:02constantly worried about that, right?
44:04But a lot of times what people do
44:05normally is they just wake up in the
44:06middle of the night and they can't
44:07return to sleep and they're really not
44:08sure why. So, number one, there's
44:10biology involved. So, your core body
44:12temperature rises, rises, rises and when
44:14it hits a peak, it drops. That drop is
44:17then a signal to your brain to release
44:18melatonin, right? Again, the key that
44:21starts the engine for sleep. However,
44:22your core body temperature continues to
44:24drop, drop, drop. By the way, this is
44:25the reason why we tell people you want
44:27to sleep in the cool, not the warm
44:29environment. Because again, your core
44:30body temperature is dropping. If it's
44:32too hot, your core body temperature
44:33can't go down and you can't get to
44:35sleep. Which tracks with evolution.
44:36>> Exactly.
44:37>> So, here's where it gets interesting is
44:39it keeps going, going, going and then at
44:41some point in time, your body has to
44:42heat up. And if it doesn't heat up, you
44:44go hypothermic. Guess what time that is?
44:47Between 1:00 and 3:00 in the morning.
44:48>> Oh, your body starts heating up at 1:00
44:501:00 and 3:00?
44:50>> Every single person's body on Earth does
44:54this. Everybody on Earth wakes up
44:56between 1:00 and 3:00 in the morning.
44:57However, most people burp, roll over,
45:01get comfortable, and fall back asleep in
45:0230 seconds. However, there's a slight
45:05group of people who end up being my
45:06patients who don't have that and there
45:09herein lies the problem. So, here are
45:10the steps you want to take in the middle
45:12of the night to be able to solve this
45:13issue. So, number one, don't go pee. I
45:17know, I know, I know. People like,
45:19"What? What are you talking about,
45:21Michael?" So, here's what ends up
45:22happening is when people wake up in the
45:23middle of the night, they say to
45:24themselves, "Well, I'm up, I might as
45:26well go pee, right?" Here's the problem.
45:28Remember, I told you the big metric was
45:30in order to enter into a state of
45:32unconsciousness, you need a heart rate
45:33of 60 or below, right? What do you think
45:35happens to your heart rate when you go
45:36from a lying position to a seated
45:37position to a standing position and walk
45:39across the room?
45:40Your heart rate goes straight up. So,
45:42what we want to do is keep your heart
45:43rate down. So, if you don't really have
45:45to go to the bathroom, don't go to the
45:46bathroom. 75% of people sleep on their
45:49sides and they kind of squanch up, which
45:50means they're putting pressure on their
45:51bladder. So, my guess is is that most of
45:54those people, if all you did was when
45:55you woke up is lie and get on your back
45:58for about 25 seconds and see if you
46:00still need to pee. If you don't need to
46:02pee, stay in bed and keep your heart
46:05rate down. If you need to pee, please go
46:07pee, right? If you're going to go to the
46:09bathroom, have a strategically placed
46:10nightlight along the way so you don't
46:12have to flip on the light in the water
46:13closet cuz if you do that, you just told
46:15your brain it's morning and it stops
46:16producing melatonin. But let's say you
46:18don't have to pee.
46:19The second thing, don't look at your
46:21phone.
46:22Now, this turns out to be very difficult
46:25for 99% of the people out there cuz the
46:27first thing they do is they grab their
46:28phone and they head to the bathroom,
46:30right? And they're either checking
46:31emails, looking at Facebook or Twitter
46:33or whatever social media they're on.
46:35>> Or just trying to figure out what time
46:36it is.
46:36>> Or
46:37and that's where the problem is. Is as
46:39soon as you see the time, you instantly
46:41do the mental math and now you're pissed
46:44off, right? It's 3:30 in the morning, I
46:45got to get up at 6:00. Sleep. Sleep.
46:48Sleep. And you try to force your brain
46:50to sleep. Dude, in the history of time,
46:53nobody has been able to force their
46:54brain to sleep, okay? Cuz your heart
46:56rate's going in the wrong way, right? It
46:57needs to be coming down. So, if you can,
47:00don't look at the clock. so you haven't
47:02peed, you haven't looked at the clock,
47:03but you're still awake and nothing's
47:04going on. Here's where the breathing
47:06technique comes in. It's called 4-7-8
47:09breathing. I did not develop this
47:11technique. It was developed by Dr.
47:12Andrew Weil, Harvard-trained natural
47:14doctor, super smart dude. Um and uh he
47:17did it for the military to teach them
47:19how to lower their heart rate during
47:20stressful situations. We use it because
47:23it helps lower our heart rate past 60
47:25and it's super simple. I'm going to get
47:26you to try it. So, go ahead and sit up
47:28straight, okay? And so, all you're going
47:30to do is breathe in for a count of four,
47:32you're going to hold for a count of
47:33seven, and you're going to breathe out
47:35for a count of eight. And I'm going to
47:36walk you through it. I want you to have
47:38your eyes closed and what I also want
47:39you to do, you're going to go in through
47:41the nose, out through the mouth. And
47:42then what I also want you to do is
47:43picture the number in your head. So,
47:45when I say breathe in, two, three, four,
47:49you should picture the two, the three,
47:51the four in your mind's eye, okay?
47:53>> With my eyes closed?
47:54>> With your eyes closed. You ready?
47:55>> Yep.
47:56>> Breathe in 2 3 4 hold 2 3 4 5 6 7 push 2
48:063 4 5 6 7 8.
48:10Good. You don't want to get through
48:12about 20 cycles of that. It's incredibly
48:15relaxing. I actually did it before I
48:18came out here to do the pod because it
48:20helps lower my heart rate and gets me
48:22centered.
48:24>> Mhm.
48:25>> It's pretty remarkable. Now, there's
48:26some problems with the technique. Number
48:28one, sometimes it's hard to hold for
48:30seven and sometimes it's really hard to
48:31push for eight. So, I tell people you
48:33can do this 4 5 6
48:354 6 7 or 4 7 8. So, just work your way
48:39up to it, right? If if it's too hard to
48:41hold your breath for 7 seconds or it's
48:43too too hard to push your breath for
48:44eight, you can do a little bit less just
48:46while you're getting used to it. And
48:48then the other big thing is it's hard to
48:49figure out where the 20 cycles is cuz
48:51you need to get to 20 cycles of this.
48:53So, what I have people do is take their
48:54hands and make light fists while they're
48:56doing this. And when they do one cycle,
48:58they put out a finger. Another cycle,
49:00put out a finger. And before you know
49:01it, you got 10 and when you bring it
49:02back, you've done 20 cycles.
49:04>> It's funny, I just did two and I started
49:05yawning.
49:05>> I know, I just saw that. [laughter] I'm
49:07telling you, dude, this thing works,
49:08right? And so, I have people do this
49:10technique. Here's the best part is it
49:13avoids monkey mind.
49:15Right? So, what is monkey mind? Monkey
49:17mind is I'm thinking about stuff that I
49:19have no business thinking about in the
49:21middle of the night for absolutely no
49:23reason. Like what's on the grocery list
49:25or what did I say to my spouse or did
49:27that podcast go okay or any of the
49:29things that might be floating through
49:30your head. You cannot count and worry at
49:34the same time.
49:36>> And why does it work? What's going on in
49:39my physiology?
49:39>> Uh-huh. You're distracting the brain
49:42from the thing that's stressing you out
49:44and it's lowering your heart rate and
49:45then the natural sleep process comes in
49:47after it. So, all these are are
49:49distraction techniques, to be clear.
49:51Now, there's a there's several of them
49:52out there. One of the other ones I use
49:54for some of my patients is I tell them,
49:55"Hey, count backwards from 300 by
49:57threes."
49:59It's mathematically so complicated, you
50:01can't think of anything else, and it's
50:02so damn boring, you're out like a light.
50:05>> On that point of distractions, a lot of
50:07people go to bed listening to podcasts
50:09or movies. Jack was just saying that he
50:11needs to listen to something before he
50:12sleeps. I'm the same. I listen to like
50:14serial killer stuff.
50:15Which is you know
50:16>> That's interesting.
50:17>> Don't [laughter]
50:18Don't judge me.
50:18>> Wait till we get to the dreams part of
50:20the podcast. I can't wait to hear what
50:21you dream about.
50:22>> I I don't I think I always try and
50:23figure out why it is. And I My sister's
50:25the same. My sister Amanda, and she
50:27she
50:29listens to serial killer stuff to fall
50:30asleep. And I think it's because This is
50:32just a hypothesis. My mom would always
50:35ask me to put on Forensic Files, which
50:37is this like serial
50:38>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:38>> murder documentary thing when we were
50:40younger
50:41>> Mhm.
50:41>> cuz she couldn't use the remote. So, my
50:42mom would say, "Can you pass me the
50:43remote?" She'd put on Forensic Files,
50:45and I'd like put on the number for her.
50:46Right. And so, that was always playing
50:48in our house at night time. And we all
50:50had TVs in our bedroom that just
50:52mirrored what was ever what was playing
50:53downstairs.
50:54>> Of course.
50:54>> So, when I got into bed
50:56I'd watch [laughter] Forensic Files and
50:57fall asleep.
50:58>> This explains a lot about you.
50:59>> I know, right? You say that to people,
51:00they think you're
51:02You're a Yeah.
51:02>> So, let me tell you what it's like in my
51:04house. And actually, you and I have a
51:06commonality.
51:07So, in my house we have a big screen TV.
51:10It's on all night long.
51:12>> What? In which room?
51:12>> In my bedroom.
51:13>> Okay.
51:14>> Okay. When I met my wife, she said to
51:16me, "Michael, if you ever happen to
51:17spend the night, I want to let you know
51:18that I sleep with the television on." I
51:20said, "Don't worry about that, Lauren.
51:22I'm going to be a sleep doctor. I'm
51:23going to fix that." We we met when I was
51:25uh 30.
51:26So, uh
51:27known her for quite a while. And You
51:29ever tried to change something in your
51:31bed partner?
51:32>> good luck.
51:32>> Yeah, good [snorts] luck. So, I took the
51:34TV out. She said, "If you ever want to
51:35come back in here again, I suggest you
51:36put the I put the TV back in." And then
51:38I studied her to learn what was going
51:41on. And it turns out that she's
51:42listening to it out of what I call the
51:44corner of her ear. Her eyes aren't even
51:46open. And half the time it's a episode
51:48of Seinfeld or something like that. My
51:50wife actually likes murder mysteries and
51:52so it's usually Forensic Files or
51:54something along those lines that's going
51:56on. But for her, it's a perfect
51:58distraction technique. Now, there's a
52:00second thing that's important in our
52:02bedroom that happens is we have two
52:04dogs. They sleep in the bed with us. I'm
52:06the freaking sleep doctor, dude. Like
52:08it's insane. But the point here is sleep
52:11is flexible. Okay? Just because it works
52:14for you doesn't mean it works for your
52:16bed partner and and vice versa is also
52:18true, right? Like just because some
52:20people can't sleep with the TV on
52:21doesn't mean that it's going to mess up
52:23your sleep forever to have the
52:24television on cuz it's not. And by the
52:26way, 99% of TVs have timers built into
52:29them. Like if you don't know what it is,
52:30ask your kid. I had to ask my son. He
52:32showed me how to use it and we turned it
52:33off. It wasn't a problem, right? So,
52:36creating a sleep environment that is
52:38conducive to sleep for you and your bed
52:41partner can have a lot of variation to
52:43it. And I don't think people There's no
52:45hard and fast rule that says, "Hey,
52:47nobody should ever sleep with the TV
52:49on." I mean, there are people out there
52:50who say that, but quite frankly,
52:52everybody sleeps with the TV on.
52:53>> Well, a lot of people do.
52:55I wouldn't put the TV on
52:57in our bedroom. I mean, we've done it
52:59once or twice whatever cuz we're
53:00watching something and we slip off to
53:01sleep and we
53:02I wake up and I realize it's on and I
53:03turn it off.
53:05But I I also really think it's an
53:06important point to say that people will
53:08listen to podcasts like this. They'll
53:10listen to the like biohackers of the
53:11world.
53:11>> Yes.
53:12>> And then they'll get so militant about
53:14how they fall asleep that it will cause
53:15friction because one partner is
53:16different.
53:17>> Don't do that.
53:18>> And I had this problem in my
53:19relationship which [laughter] was
53:20my girlfriend sleeps in silence and is
53:22has like just a such a glorious routine
53:24to everything she does.
53:25>> Right.
53:26>> And I am
53:26>> completely the opposite.
53:27>> And off the opposite. Like I need
53:28[laughter] to like I want to listen to a
53:29murder. I can be on my phone. It's like
53:32when I look at my Whoop scores,
53:34works for me.
53:35>> Yeah.
53:35>> It's like I am getting I have I get
53:37great sleep even if I'm listening to a
53:39serial killer documentary. So
53:41>> But not if you ate a cookie before bed.
53:42>> No, not if you eat a cookie. [laughter]
53:43That's That's gone. But I still what I
53:45do is I put one AirPod in in my right
53:47ear. So, it's whichever ear is not going
53:49to be on the pillow.
53:50And it means I can listen to her if she
53:52says something.
53:53>> Right.
53:53>> But when it's silence, all I hear is the
53:55thing that I'm listening to.
53:56>> So, I've got a trick for you.
53:58>> And I wake up in the morning and dig the
53:59AirPod out of the bed where it ended up.
54:00>> right. So, now I'm going to help you
54:01with the digging of the AirPod. So,
54:03first of all, they now make these things
54:04called pillow speakers.
54:06>> Oh, interesting.
54:07>> Right. So, it's a it's a it's a
54:08Bluetooth speaker that will attach to
54:10your phone that you can just slide and
54:11it's just under your pillow. So, only
54:13you can hear it. So, that's number one.
54:14You might want to consider that and
54:15they're pretty inexpensive. Number two,
54:17they now make specifically earbuds
54:20designed to be slept in.
54:23>> Oh, nice.
54:24>> So, there's a a new company out called
54:25Next Sense um and they have developed an
54:28earbud that actually measures your brain
54:30waves while you are sleeping
54:33and when you move into a lighter stage
54:35of sleep, it sends in a frequency signal
54:38to help you go back to sleep or to stay
54:40in that depth of sleep. Brand new
54:42company, Next Sense. I have nothing to
54:44do with them. I mean, it's a friend of
54:45mine who owns the company, but I'm not
54:46on their board.
54:46>> like something to do with them.
54:48>> We'll figure that out.
54:50>> So, does it allow you to play your music
54:52as well or your or your podcast or
54:54whatever?
54:55>> can listen to Diary of a CEO every
54:57single night while I fall asleep and it
55:00will make sure that I don't wake up from
55:01any dreams.
55:02>> And you can still like and subscribe and
55:03stuff.
55:04>> Even through the earbuds, of course. I
55:06think everybody should like and
55:07subscribe.
55:07>> feature.
55:08>> [laughter]
55:09>> AI agent that helps you subscribe. Okay,
55:11so that's That's you wake up in the
55:12middle of the night, you don't pee, you
55:14don't check your phone, you're doing
55:16these breathing exercises, you don't
55:17give yourself a hard time.
55:19>> And then what happens? It doesn't work.
55:20What do you do?
55:21>> Yeah.
55:21>> Right? So, there's the new research on
55:23something called non-sleep deep rest. We
55:26call it yoga nidra. Okay? It's been
55:28around for thousands of years. When you
55:29lie relaxed in like a corpse pose like
55:31this, you're actually doing something
55:33that's valuable for your sleep. Now, I
55:34want to to clear, it's not the same as
55:36sleep, but if you lie there for an hour,
55:37it's like 20 minutes worth of sleep. So,
55:40everybody should know that even lying
55:42relaxed and calm is very, very helpful,
55:46right? But, if you start to get anxious
55:48and your heart rate starts to tick up,
55:50you need to get yourself out of bed
55:52because that's when cuz all you're doing
55:54then is thinking, "Hey, this bed is this
55:55place where I get anxious and pissed
55:57off. This is not a place to sleep." So,
55:59as long as you stay nice and quiet, the
56:01non-sleep deep breath, absolutely the
56:03thing to do. The other big thing that I
56:04do, and by the way, this happens to me
56:06on occasion, too. Like, I'm not immune
56:07to it just cuz I'm a sleep doctor. You
56:09have to stay positive. And what I What
56:12do I mean by that is everybody when they
56:13wake up in the middle of the night, your
56:15brain is set to negativity. There's no
56:17reason you should be up at 3:00 in the
56:19morning that something good is going on,
56:21right? Nobody's coming in wishing you
56:22happy birthday at 3:00 in the morning.
56:24Something terrible has happened, and
56:26your brain has gotten accustomed to
56:27that. So, when it wakes up, it
56:29immediately goes to the negative, and
56:30you start thinking about bad things. You
56:33can't stop your first thought, but you
56:35can stop your second thought, right? And
56:37so, when you wake up and you think
56:38negative,
56:39what I want you to replace that with is
56:42"Okay, Michael, for some reason, your
56:44body has decided to wake up at 3:00 in
56:46the morning. It's not the game that I
56:48wanted to be playing tonight. However, I
56:50think I'm going to be okay. I'm just
56:52going to lie here and relax and let the
56:54natural sleep process take over. If I
56:56feel my heart rate increasing, I'm going
56:57to go to another room in the house where
56:59I've already got a book and a light set
57:01up so I can do a little bit of light
57:02reading and then come back to sleep."
57:04And I just tell myself that. I give
57:06myself permission
57:08to just chill.
57:10Just relax. And then, you know what
57:12happens? The natural sleep process comes
57:14over. As soon as your heart rate starts
57:15to go down, your body wants to get back
57:17to sleep. And so, it really has a lot to
57:19do with heart rate.
57:20>> I love having these conversations on The
57:22Diary of a CEO because I have a huge
57:24amount of sympathy and concern for
57:28people that don't get sufficient sleep.
57:30And I know there's a lot of people that
57:31don't. And I actually think it's to some
57:33degree it's somewhat increasing because
57:34of the way we live our lives. I was
57:35looking at some of the stats around the
57:37increase. And there's a study done in
57:402025
57:42and early 2026 that revealed we're in a
57:44global sleep crisis.
57:46>> we are.
57:46>> [laughter]
57:47>> Both the CDC and Stanford Medicine
57:48report said that one in three adults and
57:51nearly 80% of teenagers are now
57:53chronically sleep deprived.
57:55>> Correct.
57:56>> survey by the American Academy of Sleep
57:58Medicine found that 93% of Gen Z admit
58:01to regularly losing sleep due to social
58:03media usage. And 71% of employed
58:06respondents globally have said
58:08that they sometimes call in sick at
58:10least once or twice just to poor sleep.
58:13>> to sleep. Yeah. When I was down in
58:15Australia doing some work down there, a
58:17lot of Australians they take holiday and
58:19they just sleep.
58:20>> Yeah.
58:21>> Just to catch up. Like it's it's pretty
58:23remarkable. We're in a very
58:25sleep-deprived society. And I think
58:26there's a couple of different reasons
58:27why that is. Number one,
58:29have you seen what's going on outside in
58:31the world today? It's pretty crazy out
58:33there.
58:33>> Well,
58:34>> I can understand why people are getting
58:35a little anxious.
58:36>> I think one could argue it's been
58:37crazier through history, but we never
58:39knew about it.
58:40>> Right. Well, I mean, the media getting
58:41it to getting us this information so
58:43quickly, I think is definitely what it I
58:45would agree with you. It was much
58:46crazier during like World War II, you
58:48know, and stuff like that. But now we're
58:50getting information so quickly and
58:52people are getting so ratcheted up about
58:53it. I think that has something to do
58:55with it. But if I I think the bigger
58:56culprit is people being overweight. You
58:58know, when you look here in the United
58:59States and you look at the obesity
59:01epidemic and you look at people being
59:02overweight, close to like 70-something
59:05percent of people in America are
59:06overweight. When you're overweight, that
59:08puts you in line for potentially having
59:10something called sleep apnea. Now, I
59:12want to be clear, not everybody with
59:13sleep apnea is overweight, but a large
59:16percentage of the people with sleep
59:17apnea are bigger people. And so when you
59:19look at a society that's getting bigger
59:22and all of the unhealthy food that we've
59:23got going on, like all this highly
59:25processed food, things of that nature,
59:27That isn't helping anybody. It's adding
59:29the pounds and specifically like for
59:31men, we gain weight through our necks.
59:34Like I mean I don't know if you've ever
59:35noticed it, but like if you ever were
59:36heavy and you lose weight, the first
59:37thing somebody says is, "Oh, it looks
59:39like you lost weight cuz I can tell from
59:40your face." Right? And they're like,
59:41"Oh, your neck looks, you know,
59:42different now." And so we see a lot of
59:44what's going on in the world from a
59:46weight perspective and a food
59:47perspective could be driving some of the
59:49sleep problems. Then there's the anxiety
59:51perspective that I spoke of earlier that
59:53I think comes in and again I I agree
59:56with you. I don't think we have more
59:57crazy stuff going on. I think we know
59:59about more crazy stuff that's going.
1:00:00>> But also work is now largely digital.
1:00:03And I imagine for my great-grandfather,
1:00:05he would go to, I don't know, the
1:00:06factory or wherever he worked. His work
1:00:08would finish at 6:00.
1:00:09>> Yes.
1:00:10>> Your work doesn't finish at 6:00 now. It
1:00:12finishes when you're awake.
1:00:13>> Yeah, absolutely. It finishes when you
1:00:15go to sleep.
1:00:15>> Yeah, exactly.
1:00:16>> Right? Yeah, and and that becomes
1:00:17problematic, right? Because a lot of
1:00:19times, also by the way, you need to have
1:00:21dividers in your home. Like let's say
1:00:23you live in a studio apartment and your
1:00:25bed is your couch, is your kitchen,
1:00:27right? You have no designated spot for
1:00:29sleep. Your body needs to know, hey,
1:00:31this is the spot where I can chill out
1:00:34and finally get some rest. And I think a
1:00:36lot of times our environments just
1:00:38aren't that way.
1:00:39>> So many of us are pursuing passive forms
1:00:42of income and to build side businesses
1:00:44in order to help us cover our bills. And
1:00:46that opportunity is here with our
1:00:48sponsor Stan, a business that I co-own.
1:00:51It is the platform that can help you
1:00:52take full advantage of your own
1:00:54financial situation. Stan enables you to
1:00:57work for yourself. It makes selling
1:00:58digital products, courses, memberships,
1:01:01and more simple products more scalable
1:01:03and easier to do. You can turn your
1:01:05ideas into income and get the support to
1:01:07grow whatever you're building. And we've
1:01:09just launched Dare to Dream. It's for
1:01:11those who are ready to make the shift
1:01:13from thinking to building, from planning
1:01:15to actually doing the thing. It's about
1:01:17seeing that dream in your head and
1:01:19knowing exactly what what takes to bring
1:01:20it to life.
1:01:21It's not too late to join the challenge.
1:01:23Enter to win $100,000. Visit dare to
1:01:26dream.stan.store.
1:01:29I've had so many founders speak to me
1:01:30and say, "Why didn't this particular ad
1:01:33that I ran on this platform work for
1:01:34me?" Maybe the copy wasn't good, the
1:01:36creative wasn't strong, but usually the
1:01:38problem is they're not having the right
1:01:39conversation because that ad never
1:01:41reached the right person. And if you're
1:01:42in B2B marketing, that is much of the
1:01:45game. And this is where LinkedIn ads
1:01:47solves that problem for you. Their
1:01:49targeting is ridiculously specific. You
1:01:51can target by job title, seniority,
1:01:53company size, industry, and even
1:01:55someone's skill set. And their network
1:01:58includes over a billion professionals.
1:02:00About 130 million of them are decision
1:02:02makers. So, when you use LinkedIn ads,
1:02:04you're putting your brand in front of
1:02:06the right people. And LinkedIn ads also
1:02:08drive the highest B2B return on ad spend
1:02:10across all ad networks in my experience.
1:02:13If you want to give them a try, head
1:02:14over to linkedin.com/diary.
1:02:18And when you spend $250 on your first
1:02:20LinkedIn ads campaign, you'll get an
1:02:22extra $250 credit from me for the next
1:02:25one. That's linkedin.com/diary.
1:02:28Terms and conditions apply.
1:02:31>> Which sleep disorder should we start
1:02:32with? Sleep apnea and insomnia. Sleep
1:02:35apnea for folks out there who may not
1:02:36know what it is is when you are snoring
1:02:39at night. Almost everybody who has sleep
1:02:41apnea snores. Not everybody, but almost
1:02:42everybody. And when you're sucking air
1:02:44in, you pull your tongue to the back of
1:02:46your throat and you cut off your air.
1:02:49And you literally stop breathing, right?
1:02:51For a few seconds. Then all of a sudden
1:02:52you
1:02:53And you make all this kind of grunt and
1:02:54groaning noises and then you wake up.
1:02:57This can happen hundreds of times a
1:02:59night. And it can be very problematic
1:03:02because of course it wakes you up every
1:03:03single time that you have one of these
1:03:06events, right? And so, as an example, we
1:03:08measure the events per hour. So, as an
1:03:11example, somebody with sleep apnea could
1:03:13have between 5 and 15 times per hour
1:03:16that they stop breathing and that's
1:03:18mild.
1:03:19>> So, how are they going to get into the
1:03:20deep sleep that clears out their
1:03:22brain?
1:03:22>> That's the problem, right? And so, apnea
1:03:25prevents them from getting into a lot of
1:03:26that deep sleep, and so their brain
1:03:28doesn't clear out, and then they got
1:03:29their they're kind of screwed. So, at
1:03:31the end of the day, the the goal here is
1:03:34to get as many people to number one,
1:03:36identify if they have a sleep disorder,
1:03:38and then be able to try to figure out
1:03:40what to do about it. And the percentage
1:03:42of people in the US that have
1:03:43undiagnosed sleep apnea is pretty big.
1:03:45It's like somewhere between I think like
1:03:4718 to 20%.
1:03:48>> This is crazy. I was just looking at the
1:03:49stats. It says, "According to 2026 data,
1:03:51approximately
1:03:53936
1:03:55million people to 1 billion adults
1:03:57worldwide have obstructive sleep apnea,
1:03:59which is what one in seven?"
1:04:01>> Yeah, that's about right. Yeah.
1:04:02>> Making it as common as diabetes. One in
1:04:04seven people listening have sleep apnea.
1:04:06>> Yes.
1:04:07>> Wow.
1:04:07>> As popular as diabetes. Let that sink in
1:04:09for like half a second. Everybody knows
1:04:11what diabetes is. Almost nobody knows
1:04:14what sleep disorders are, specifically
1:04:16sleep apnea.
1:04:16>> And it says 80 to 90% of those people
1:04:19remain undiagnosed.
1:04:20>> Undiagnosed. That is correct.
1:04:22>> So, there's people listening right
1:04:23There's actually a huge percentage of
1:04:24people listening right now
1:04:25>> Yeah.
1:04:26>> that have sleep apnea and have no idea
1:04:27that they have it.
1:04:28>> Exactly right.
1:04:29>> they know?
1:04:30>> Do the sleep test.
1:04:31>> This thing here?
1:04:32>> Yeah.
1:04:32>> And what would this show?
1:04:33>> So, this would show This actually
1:04:34collects what is your oxygen levels that
1:04:37throughout the night, what is your heart
1:04:38rate throughout the night, how many
1:04:39times do you actually stop breathing,
1:04:41and also the depth of your sleep, which
1:04:43stages of sleep you get when you fall
1:04:44asleep, things like that.
1:04:46>> And what would this So, you know, cuz
1:04:47people are going to be saying that well,
1:04:48like how do I know if I need to do the
1:04:49test?
1:04:50>> So, great question. So, you want to
1:04:52think about the symptoms that you might
1:04:53have. So, do you snore? Do you wake up
1:04:56gasping for air? Has anybody told you
1:04:58that your snoring stops for brief
1:05:00periods of time, or that you they've
1:05:02heard you gasping for air? Do you wake
1:05:04up with a headache in the morning? Do
1:05:05you find your moods are up and down? All
1:05:08of those are signs and symptoms of sleep
1:05:10apnea.
1:05:11>> And this test, are you affiliated with
1:05:12this company at all?
1:05:13>> I'm not. But um do have that test on my
1:05:15website. We sell it to people so that
1:05:17way we can test them.
1:05:18>> And how much does it cost?
1:05:19>> $189.
1:05:21>> Okay, so it's not
1:05:22>> It's not exorbitantly expensive and it's
1:05:24also is covered by insurance.
1:05:27>> And it connects to an app?
1:05:28>> Uh-huh.
1:05:29Absolutely. So you'd put it through your
1:05:30sleeve.
1:05:31>> So I I'd put that there and then like
1:05:33this. [clears throat]
1:05:33>> Yeah, exactly. And that's it. You go to
1:05:35bed.
1:05:36Wake up, then the information ports over
1:05:38to your phone.
1:05:40And then tells us exactly what's going
1:05:41on. Now here's where it gets even
1:05:43better. I know, right?
1:05:44>> imagine me getting in bed with my film
1:05:45saying being like, "Come on, babe, let's
1:05:47>> We're recording all kinds of good stuff.
1:05:49Who knows what she might like?"
1:05:50>> Is this going to help my sex life?
1:05:52>> It's absolutely it will because getting
1:05:54into bed and knowing how well you sleep
1:05:57and knowing if you have sleep apnea or
1:05:58not will definitely affect your sex
1:05:59life. Also, by the way, I've saved more
1:06:01marriages as a sleep doctor than I ever
1:06:03would have as a marital therapist
1:06:04dealing with snoring in the middle of
1:06:06the night and things like that. So you'd
1:06:08be you'd be surprised. But what's nice
1:06:10about this is it's one night. You don't
1:06:11have to do it multiple nights. It's
1:06:13super easy. And again, I believe it or
1:06:15not that's disposable. You can actually
1:06:16throw that whole thing away after it's
1:06:18all said and done.
1:06:19>> And on that point, if we just go a
1:06:20little bit further into sleep apnea,
1:06:21should should we be sleeping in bed with
1:06:23our partners? And I know that's an
1:06:24interesting thing to
1:06:24>> Great question. Great question. The
1:06:26strength of your relationship has
1:06:29nothing to do with where you sleep,
1:06:32okay? So lots of people are like, "I got
1:06:33to sleep with my partner, otherwise my
1:06:35relationship's going to go to [ __ ] and
1:06:36everything's going to go terrible and
1:06:38we're never going to have sex and we're
1:06:39well
1:06:40not true, okay? So a lot of times for
1:06:42people that I have So for example, I've
1:06:44got people who um have sleep apnea and
1:06:47they use a
1:06:48machine to help them sleep called a CPAP
1:06:49machine, right? And um that noise for
1:06:52some people can be disruptive and so
1:06:53they sleep, let's say, in a different
1:06:55room, right? So is that is that
1:06:58detrimental to your marriage? No, it's
1:07:00not cuz here's what you do is you
1:07:02vacation on the weekends in your
1:07:04bedroom, right? I can't count the number
1:07:06of people who sleep separately during
1:07:08the week and then together on the
1:07:10weekends. And it turns out that they get
1:07:12much better sleep during the week. And
1:07:14then, guess what? Intimacy shows up much
1:07:17faster on the weekends because they're
1:07:19not so tired. Used to be, you know, not
1:07:21tonight I have a headache, it was really
1:07:23not tonight I'm exhausted. When you
1:07:25allow your partner to get good sleep
1:07:27during the week, there's a reasonably
1:07:28good shot that you're going to be able
1:07:30to be intimate over the weekend if they
1:07:32got good sleep. So, wearing that to bed
1:07:34might not be the sexiest thing in the
1:07:36universe, but it's better than having
1:07:39sleep apnea and eventually ending up
1:07:41dead.
1:07:42>> Are the symptoms of sleep apnea
1:07:44different for men and women?
1:07:46>> They are. Great question. So, it turns
1:07:48out that men and women are quite
1:07:49different. But we've historically been
1:07:51scoring them the same. So, women don't
1:07:54have a tendency to have as much snoring
1:07:56as men do. Um women have a tendency to
1:07:58have more arousals where they wake up
1:08:00constantly. Women have a tendency to
1:08:02report headaches in the morning, more so
1:08:04than men do. So, it's actually different
1:08:06types of symptoms for women versus men
1:08:09when it comes to sleep apnea. To the
1:08:10point where we're now considering using
1:08:13different testing devices. So, this
1:08:15testing device um would not necessarily
1:08:17measure EEG. And in women, EEG might be
1:08:20important. That's what we're learning.
1:08:22So, as an example, our company is
1:08:24finding a device specifically to send to
1:08:26women so that way we can more accurately
1:08:28measure sleep apnea in women. Now,
1:08:30there's a lot of questions about
1:08:32treatment for sleep apnea. And the
1:08:34biggest reason why nobody gets sleep
1:08:35tested is because they're afraid that
1:08:37they're going to end up sleeping with a
1:08:38CPAP machine on their face at night. And
1:08:41so, let me describe to your audience
1:08:42what that is. Also, full disclosure, I
1:08:45have sleep apnea.
1:08:47I don't look like somebody who has sleep
1:08:48apnea. I stop breathing in my sleep, I
1:08:50think it's 26 times an hour.
1:08:52I know, right? Kind of crazy. And I wear
1:08:55a CPAP machine and it helps me sleep
1:08:58every single night. Let me explain what
1:08:59it is. So, when your throat closes here,
1:09:02machine is a little air compressor with
1:09:04a tube and a mask that sits on your
1:09:06nose, pushes a just thin stream of just
1:09:08air, and when it hits that blockage, it
1:09:09ever so slightly opens it up, shoots air
1:09:12straight down to your lungs. Now, you
1:09:13might be saying to yourself, "That
1:09:15sounds barbaric. That is insane. That's
1:09:17a hair dryer blowing up my nose all
1:09:20night long."
1:09:22Here's what I can tell you, is when you
1:09:24have a severe case of sleep apnea,
1:09:27this can be a lifesaver.
1:09:29This can be one of the biggest, most
1:09:30important things that you possibly do.
1:09:32Now, a lot of people say, "Oh, I don't
1:09:34think I could sleep with a mask on my
1:09:35face." Well, that's not the only
1:09:37treatment. There are other treatments
1:09:38called oral appliances. This is like a
1:09:40mouth guard, like you see the
1:09:41footballers wear, but it's an upper and
1:09:43a lower, and the lower slowly brings
1:09:45your jaw forward, which opens up your
1:09:47posterior airway space. The same way
1:09:49that air pushes things aside, the oral
1:09:52appliance structurally moves your jaw
1:09:53slightly forward, thereby opening up
1:09:55your airway. So, that works well, and
1:09:58then there's no mask on your face.
1:09:59There's a third device that you can wear
1:10:01on your tongue that vibrates, that
1:10:03shrinks your tongue by a couple of
1:10:05millimeters, which opens up this
1:10:07posterior airway space and allows you to
1:10:09breathe better.
1:10:10>> Have you tried all of them?
1:10:11>> I have, as a matter of fact.
1:10:12>> And why did you choose the apnea
1:10:13machine?
1:10:14>> So, for me, the apnea machine worked the
1:10:16best and made the most sense for me
1:10:18right now. But, I'll be honest with you,
1:10:20I will probably get the mouth guard for
1:10:22when I travel. There's a lot that can be
1:10:24done out there. And by the way, there's
1:10:26also surgeries. And surgeries are a
1:10:28little bit more permanent fix, um but in
1:10:30many cases, those can be quite
1:10:32effective. Also, by the way, they're
1:10:34working on a pill
1:10:35>> Mhm.
1:10:36>> for sleep apnea now.
1:10:37And that's just apnea. We haven't talked
1:10:38about insomnia yet.
1:10:39>> I was just reading about the FDA
1:10:40approving a drug.
1:10:42>> Yeah, it's it's quite remarkable, and
1:10:43there's actually two I think there's
1:10:44actually three different companies that
1:10:46are working on different drugs right now
1:10:48for sleep apnea. And I mean, to be
1:10:50clear, when that happens, I think it's
1:10:52pretty much game over for sleep apnea,
1:10:54right? I I once we can get it in a pill
1:10:56form, which means compliance increases
1:10:58dramatically, we can help a lot of
1:11:01people with sleep apnea, which I think
1:11:02would be pretty amazing.
1:11:03>> And women are heavily under-diagnosed,
1:11:05right? Because we
1:11:05>> Heavily.
1:11:06>> We think of it as I mean, I've heard it
1:11:08being referred to as a sort of an old
1:11:10man's disease.
1:11:10>> Yeah, an old absolutely. And here's the
1:11:12thing, many women have a tendency to
1:11:14report insomnia types of symptoms over
1:11:17sleep apnea types of symptoms, when in
1:11:19fact, they actually have under
1:11:21under-diagnosed sleep apnea, which we
1:11:22can catch.
1:11:23>> We talked a little bit earlier, but from
1:11:25many of the conversations I've had on
1:11:26the show about Alzheimer's,
1:11:27>> Yes.
1:11:28>> your chance of
1:11:30getting Alzheimer's, I imagine, is going
1:11:31to increase, right? Because
1:11:33>> Absolutely.
1:11:33>> you have sleep apnea.
1:11:34>> Yeah, well, because when you have sleep
1:11:35apnea, it keeps you out of the deeper
1:11:37stages of sleep. The deeper stages of
1:11:39sleep is where that glymphatic system
1:11:40comes in and scoops out those proteins,
1:11:42and that's really probably one of those
1:11:44big causes for it. So, that's one of the
1:11:45things that we always want people to
1:11:46understand. But, there's also something
1:11:48else that I think is important to maybe
1:11:50talk about, which is on the other side,
1:11:52not sleep apnea side, but on the
1:11:54insomnia side, which is there's a lot of
1:11:56people who go and they go to the drug
1:11:57store and they buy an over-the-counter
1:11:59sleep aid, right? Now, I'm not talking
1:12:01about supplementation yet. We can get
1:12:03into supplements in a minute, if you
1:12:04want to, but I'm talking about things
1:12:06like the PM medications, right? You
1:12:08know, they So, here in America, we have
1:12:10them where there's like there's like an
1:12:11analgesic plus a PM. So, there's Tylenol
1:12:14PM, Advil PM, and what it is is it's
1:12:17it's a pain reliever, but they add
1:12:20something called diphenhydramine, and it
1:12:21makes you feel sleepy, and it makes you
1:12:23fall asleep. Diphenhydramine is actually
1:12:25an antihistamine, right? So, it's used
1:12:27for congestion and things like that, but
1:12:29there's now data to suggest that daily
1:12:32use of the PM part of this, not the pain
1:12:35relieving part, but the PM part, can
1:12:37lead almost directly to Alzheimer's.
1:12:39>> Oh, wow.
1:12:40>> Right. So, if people can just go to bed
1:12:44and follow a couple simple rules and go
1:12:46to bed naturally, you'd be shocked at
1:12:47how much better your world is going to
1:12:48be.
1:12:49>> The Queensland Brain Institute, um, at
1:12:52the University of Queensland, found that
1:12:54people with untreated apnea have a 45%
1:12:57higher risk of developing Alzheimer's
1:12:59disease.
1:13:00>> Like I said, this is crazy.
1:13:03So,
1:13:03>> It's really important.
1:13:04>> here's the thing is we've got all these
1:13:05people who are watching your show right
1:13:07now. They need to start thinking in
1:13:09their head like
1:13:11maybe I have sleep apnea, maybe I don't,
1:13:13but maybe I should take a look at what
1:13:14are some of the symptoms and see if
1:13:16that's something that could be going on
1:13:17for me. Because again, testing is
1:13:19available. And to be clear, it's not
1:13:21like I'm the only guy out there who's
1:13:22testing people. I mean, there are sleep
1:13:24doctors all over the world that are
1:13:26testing people. My encouragement to
1:13:28people is, "Hey, figure it out. If If
1:13:30you can't figure it out, you know, shoot
1:13:32us an email, we'll find a sleep center
1:13:34for you to go to. But if you think
1:13:36there's something going on, it's
1:13:37definitely worth checking out." Because
1:13:39by the way, you can stay with
1:13:41undiagnosed sleep apnea for your entire
1:13:43life. And it all it does is basically
1:13:45break down everything that's going on
1:13:46inside.
1:13:47That's not what you want. Like,
1:13:49remember, sleep is recovery. Right? This
1:13:51is how your body still functions. Like,
1:13:52if you want to lead a nice, prosperous
1:13:55life, you want to sleep.
1:13:57>> Insomnia has become a bit of a word that
1:13:59people throw around, for sure.
1:14:00>> Right. They They kind of just
1:14:01self-diagnose themselves. We kind of
1:14:03think of it as this one specific thing.
1:14:04I think people say I have insomnia when
1:14:06they just don't sleep well.
1:14:07>> Right.
1:14:07>> What is insomnia and and what's the big
1:14:09myth around it?
1:14:10>> Yeah, so number one, there's a couple of
1:14:12different flavors of insomnia. There's
1:14:14the I can't fall asleep, there's the I
1:14:16can't stay asleep, which we talked about
1:14:17quite a bit, there's the I wake up too
1:14:19early, and then there's just the I wake
1:14:21up from unrefreshing sleep. So, we
1:14:23really think that there are four sort of
1:14:25types of insomnia, right? And, um, when
1:14:28people I would say some of the biggest
1:14:30myths that a lot of people have
1:14:31surrounding insomnia is or like the
1:14:34biggest problem that they do is when
1:14:35somebody has a really crappy night, then
1:14:37what they try to do is the next evening
1:14:39go to bed early
1:14:41and try to catch up on some of that
1:14:43sleep that they missed. So, to be clear,
1:14:46this is a terrible idea because your
1:14:48circadian rhythm isn't ready to go to
1:14:50bed early. So, you lie in bed and you're
1:14:53exhausted, but you can't fall asleep.
1:14:55You're what I call wired and tired,
1:14:57right? And so, what we want people to do
1:15:00is if you do have a bout of insomnia
1:15:02where you have difficulty falling asleep
1:15:03or difficulty staying asleep, number
1:15:05one, don't over caffeinate during the
1:15:07daytime. So many people are like, "Oh,
1:15:09I'm dragging. I got to get a coffee."
1:15:11You know, and and they and they
1:15:12caffeinate caffeinate caffeinate and
1:15:14then they caffeinate so late into the
1:15:15day that they have shitty sleep that
1:15:17night and now we're in the washing
1:15:18machine cycle going over and over and
1:15:20over. It sounds like you might be
1:15:21relating to this a little bit maybe
1:15:23yourself. And then
1:15:25so we want to avoid that. The other
1:15:26thing we want to avoid is
1:15:28overstimulation at night, right? So, a
1:15:31lot of times people get that nervous
1:15:32energy and so they're just doing doing
1:15:34doing. Again, you need runway to land
1:15:36the plane, so give yourself some kind of
1:15:38that space. Um and then just make sure
1:15:40that you've got some level of
1:15:41regularity. I would argue for my
1:15:44insomnia patients, but quite honestly,
1:15:46for anybody who's watching this, the
1:15:48number one sleep tip that I can give
1:15:51people is to wake up at the same time 7
1:15:53days a week.
1:15:54Not go to bed. I don't actually care
1:15:56when you go to bed that much. I know
1:15:58there's a lot of sleep specialists out
1:15:59there who are like, "You got to go to
1:16:00bed at the same time and wake up at the
1:16:01same time." I'm not of that ilk. I don't
1:16:03really care that much about the going to
1:16:05bed time. I really only care about the
1:16:07wake up time. Let me explain why. When
1:16:09you wake up in the morning, sunlight
1:16:10hits your eye and you have a special
1:16:11cell in your eye called a melanopsin
1:16:13cell, which sends a signal to your brain
1:16:15to turn off the melatonin faucet in your
1:16:17head. But it sets a timer for exactly 14
1:16:20hours later. It's called the melatonin
1:16:21phase response curve. So, if you're
1:16:23waking up at 6:00, melatonin turns off
1:16:25until about 8:00 p.m. then it takes
1:16:27about a couple hours for it to get up
1:16:29and in. So, then you start to get sleepy
1:16:30around 9:30 and you go to bed.
1:16:32But if you did that and now it's
1:16:34Saturday and you sleep in until 8:00,
1:16:37melatonin doesn't kick off until 10:00
1:16:39Saturday night. So, what I'm saying is
1:16:41the time that you wake up directly
1:16:44determines when your internal melatonin
1:16:47kicks into gear. So, if everybody woke
1:16:49up at the exact same time every single
1:16:52day 7 days a week,
1:16:54automatically you would get tired at the
1:16:56right time and you would start going to
1:16:58sleep.
1:16:58>> And is there two different types of
1:17:00insomnia? Because sometimes I hear
1:17:01primary secondary insomnia. I think I
1:17:03heard that on your YouTube channel.
1:17:04>> So, when you look at primary insomnia
1:17:06versus secondary insomnia, the way we
1:17:07categorize that, secondary insomnia is
1:17:10usually due to something else that's
1:17:11going on in your life. So,
1:17:13>> Psychology.
1:17:14>> So, maybe caffeine abuse?
1:17:15>> Oh, okay.
1:17:16>> Right? Um maybe something along those
1:17:18lines. Whereas primary insomnia is
1:17:20there's nothing else. You The only thing
1:17:22you've got going on is sleep disorder.
1:17:24Another example of of something where
1:17:25insomnia might be secondary would be
1:17:27pain.
1:17:28>> Okay. [snorts]
1:17:28>> if you have a pain syndrome, if you have
1:17:29fibromyalgia or low back pain, that
1:17:31could prevent you from sleeping. That
1:17:33would be secondary insomnia, secondary
1:17:35to pain.
1:17:36>> And I hear that the most common
1:17:37treatment for insomnia is CBT therapy.
1:17:40>> So,
1:17:41yes and no.
1:17:42>> Okay.
1:17:42>> So, I would say that the most common
1:17:44therapy for insomnia is alcohol.
1:17:47More people drink themselves to sleep
1:17:50>> Right.
1:17:50>> than any other single thing out there.
1:17:52Um and then you start to get into the
1:17:53pharmacy of it all and there's a lot of
1:17:55pharmaceutical drugs out there that
1:17:57people utilize for for sleep. And I want
1:17:59to make a point if I can is there's
1:18:01nothing wrong with needing a pill to
1:18:05sleep. Okay? I want to be very clear
1:18:07about this. There are people out there
1:18:09who need pills, right? All kinds of
1:18:12different ones. Thank you. There's a
1:18:13whole host of reasons why you and your
1:18:15doctor may have come to the conclusion
1:18:17that a sleeping tablet is good for you.
1:18:20The problem comes when those sleeping
1:18:22tablets are over prescribed. So,
1:18:25insomnia is in the in the sleep world we
1:18:27call it a door handle diagnosis because
1:18:30when the doctor has their hand on the
1:18:31door and they're just about to leave,
1:18:33that's when the patient says, "Oh, and
1:18:34by the way, I'm not sleeping."
1:18:36And then the doctor [clears throat]
1:18:36usually pulls out the prescription pad
1:18:38and says, you know, Ambien or trazodone
1:18:40or something like that. Writes it up,
1:18:41says, "Here, come back in 30 days."
1:18:43Well, you haven't really done anything
1:18:44for this person. You've handed them a
1:18:46pill, and by the way, now they're
1:18:47probably either psychologically or
1:18:49physiologically addicted to said pill,
1:18:52right? Now, once again, if you've got a
1:18:54major mental health issue, I don't think
1:18:56I care. I think it's okay for you to
1:18:58have your Ambien and be fine.
1:18:59>> And And a lot of people that do have
1:19:00insomnia have depression.
1:19:02>> Oh, I think it's one of the biggest
1:19:03things that we see. But I would argue
1:19:05anxiety might be a little bit more than
1:19:07depression, but yes, anxiety and
1:19:08depression I would argue make up 75% of
1:19:11insomnia at any given time, right? I
1:19:13work with people and I do something
1:19:15called cognitive behavioral therapy for
1:19:16insomnia, which you correctly identified
1:19:18as CBT-I, right? And so I work with
1:19:20patients all the time, um and that's
1:19:23exactly what we do is we reschedule
1:19:25them, so that's the behavioral part, and
1:19:27then the cognitive part is we talk to
1:19:29them about how do you think about sleep?
1:19:31of people think about sleep in
1:19:32disastrous ways. They're like, "If I
1:19:33don't get 8 hours, my whole day is
1:19:35screwed and everything's going to
1:19:36happen." It rarely happens that way.
1:19:38Like, it's called catastrophizing. You
1:19:40just make it worse and worse and worse.
1:19:42And so we look at those cognitive
1:19:43distortions, and we help fix them in
1:19:45therapy by really kind of what I call
1:19:47doing the math. And so I say, "Well,
1:19:49have you ever had 4 hours of sleep?"
1:19:51Yes. "Did you do something terrible the
1:19:53next day?" No. "So, where's your
1:19:55evidence, right?" And you start to get
1:19:57people to challenge themselves, and all
1:19:59of a sudden they kind of they can kind
1:20:00of get there. There's also another area
1:20:02of that a lot of people go to, somewhere
1:20:04in between the pills and therapy, and
1:20:07that's supplementation. So there's a lot
1:20:09of people out there who like to use
1:20:11supplements and try to understand how to
1:20:14fix, quote, their insomnia with
1:20:16supplementation. So if we can, let's
1:20:18talk a little bit about supplements and
1:20:19sort of what's good and what's bad.
1:20:21>> What is the difference between a
1:20:23supplement and a pill? Or is it you're
1:20:25talking about the same thing here?
1:20:26>> So, under the context of this
1:20:28conversation, a supplement is a non-FDA
1:20:32regulated thing that you can purchase at
1:20:34any drugstore and a pill is a by
1:20:37prescription only from a doctor.
1:20:40>> Okay.
1:20:41>> That's how we're going to make the
1:20:41distinction for this particular
1:20:43conversation.
1:20:43>> Okay. So, those pills that are in front
1:20:45of you there.
1:20:46>> So, right in front of me, these are most
1:20:48These are actually all
1:20:49supplements. So, these are different
1:20:51things So, these are not
1:20:52pharmaceuticals. These are different
1:20:53things. So, we've got
1:20:54>> in different countries, it's different,
1:20:55right?
1:20:56>> Great point. So, let's talk about
1:20:57melatonin since that's kind of the
1:20:58biggie that a lot of people like to know
1:21:00about. So, number one, melatonin is by
1:21:03prescription only almost everywhere
1:21:05other than the United States.
1:21:06>> Yeah.
1:21:06>> Right? So, in England, in Australia, in
1:21:09Europe, you can't just walk into the
1:21:11drugstore and buy melatonin. And there's
1:21:13a reason. A lot of people don't realize
1:21:15it, but melatonin is a hormone. There's
1:21:17a reason you can't go to the CVS and get
1:21:19testosterone and estrogen, right?
1:21:20Because hormones affect the entire
1:21:22system. They affect all three almost 300
1:21:25different things in your body. So, what
1:21:27you don't want to do is have somebody
1:21:28just willy-nilly grabbing a hormone and
1:21:30starting to pop it without somebody
1:21:31understanding what's going on with them.
1:21:34More importantly, melatonin in
1:21:36particular, and the point I wanted to
1:21:37make earlier about depression, melatonin
1:21:41interacts with all SSRI medication. An
1:21:46SSRI is a serotonin specific reuptake
1:21:49inhibitor, an antidepressant. So, things
1:21:52like Prozac, Zoloft, um Celexa, all of
1:21:56those are medications that will be
1:21:58affected by melatonin ingestion and
1:22:01nobody knows that it is. In addition,
1:22:04melatonin affects birth control.
1:22:07Yes, you heard it here. Birth control.
1:22:09It affects blood pressure medication and
1:22:11it affects diabetes medication. So, one
1:22:14of the problems is that people go into
1:22:16the local drugstore and they're like,
1:22:17"Ah, I'm going to grab some melatonin
1:22:19and I'm going to make my sleep better
1:22:20cuz I'm sleeping poorly." So, first of
1:22:22all, that's not what melatonin does.
1:22:24Melatonin is a sleep regulator, not a
1:22:26sleep initiator. Melatonin doesn't
1:22:29affect sleep drive, melatonin affects
1:22:31sleep rhythm. So remember in the
1:22:32beginning of our conversation we're
1:22:33talking about the two systems. Melatonin
1:22:35only affects your brain telling it when
1:22:38it's time to go to bed. It does not make
1:22:40you sleepy. That's adenosine. We already
1:22:42talked about adenosine and caffeine and
1:22:44how similar their molecular structures
1:22:45are. So when you look at something like
1:22:47melatonin, you need to really be
1:22:49thoughtful about using it. Number two,
1:22:51melatonin is not to be used in children.
1:22:55Okay? So a lot of people are like,
1:22:57"Michael, I've got pediatricians all
1:22:59over the country telling my telling me
1:23:01to give my children melatonin." I'm
1:23:03going to say it right here in front of
1:23:04everybody. That is the dumbest idea I
1:23:06have heard in a long time. Because you
1:23:09just taught your child that they need a
1:23:10pill to sleep.
1:23:13No really, no child needs pills to
1:23:15sleep. And by the way, most children
1:23:17make almost four times the amount of
1:23:19melatonin that their brain even needs.
1:23:21So giving them extra melatonin doesn't
1:23:24do you any good. There is however one
1:23:26group of children where melatonin does
1:23:27work well, and that's in kids on the
1:23:29autism spectrum. Um we don't know
1:23:30exactly why, but um or at least I don't,
1:23:34but there is data to suggest that at 5,
1:23:366, 7 mg, that that can be very helpful
1:23:39for them. Dosage also is a problem. Like
1:23:42if you go to the drugstore, you can you
1:23:44almost can't find it in the appropriate
1:23:46dose. The appropriate dose is anywhere
1:23:47from about half a milligram to 1 and 1/2
1:23:50milligrams. Maybe top out at three, but
1:23:52that's about as high as you want to go.
1:23:54But when you go to CVS, you find it
1:23:56gummies in 10 and 20 milligrams. And
1:23:58people tell me all the time, "Oh, I
1:23:59can't take melatonin, it gives me crazy
1:24:01dreams." Number one side effect of
1:24:03overdosing on melatonin is crazy dreams.
1:24:05>> On this point of going to a supermarket
1:24:07and picking some melatonin off the
1:24:09shelf,
1:24:10>> Mhm.
1:24:11>> FDA approval
1:24:13and the lack of FDA approval in
1:24:14melatonin means that there's less
1:24:17clarity on what's actually in there,
1:24:18right?
1:24:20>> I was reading about a study in 2024
1:24:23um where they looked at different
1:24:24melatonins that were found on the shelf.
1:24:26>> And they found very different things
1:24:28inside the bottle.
1:24:29>> Very, very different things. They looked
1:24:31at an analysis of melatonin gummies
1:24:33marketed for children and found that the
1:24:34actual amount of melatonin ranged from
1:24:370%
1:24:38>> Right.
1:24:38>> to 667%
1:24:41of what was listed on the label.
1:24:42>> Yep, see it all the time.
1:24:44>> And in the same study melatonin gummies
1:24:45some melatonin gummies contained
1:24:47absolutely no melatonin while others
1:24:50contained hazardous contaminants like
1:24:52CBD that were not disclosed on the
1:24:54label.
1:24:54>> Yep.
1:24:55>> Because melatonin is sold as a
1:24:56supplement in the US and not a drug, the
1:24:58FDA does not test it for safety or
1:25:00accuracy before it hits the shelf.
1:25:01>> You are 100% correct and that's a huge
1:25:03problem. Just think about that for a
1:25:05second. I mean, the market for melatonin
1:25:07is tremendous. It's huge in the
1:25:10supplement world. Yet, there's no
1:25:12regulation whatsoever. Nobody knows
1:25:14about these interaction effects which
1:25:16are big, big, big. And by the way, most
1:25:19people are using it wrong. There's
1:25:20really only three, maybe four different
1:25:22instances when melatonin would be
1:25:24useful. I would use melatonin for jet
1:25:26lag and we should talk about jet lag. Um
1:25:29I would I would use melatonin for shift
1:25:31workers, right? So, for people who work,
1:25:33you know, night shift, who have to sleep
1:25:35during the daytime, they would be
1:25:36excellent people to use melatonin.
1:25:38People with a melatonin deficiency.
1:25:41A lot of people don't think about that,
1:25:42but right around age 50 is when if
1:25:44you're going to have a melatonin
1:25:45deficiency, we start to see that
1:25:46happening for people is it their their
1:25:48ability to produce melatonin begins to
1:25:50decline. So, I think those three
1:25:52situations absolutely would be on board
1:25:54for melatonin. Believe it or not,
1:25:55there's some data to show that in ADD
1:25:57and ADHD, there's some use for melatonin
1:26:00and then also for a very specific
1:26:02sleeping disorder called REM behavior
1:26:04disorder.
1:26:04>> We're going melatonin crazy as a
1:26:06society, aren't we?
1:26:07>> Absolutely. We don't need it. It's
1:26:09completely unnecessary.
1:26:11>> I was looking at the data in 1999, 0.4%
1:26:15of Americans said they used melatonin.
1:26:17Today it's almost 30% so that's 70
1:26:20million Americans.
1:26:21>> up. Dude, that is problematic. And
1:26:24again, they have no idea what it's doing
1:26:26to them. Right? And they're giving it to
1:26:28their kids. Like I can't think of
1:26:30anything worse for a young female
1:26:31developing body than to add a
1:26:32contraceptive when it's not necessary.
1:26:35Like it just doesn't make sense to me.
1:26:36>> The rise in children overdosing on sleep
1:26:38gummies is the fastest growing trend in
1:26:40poison control data.
1:26:42>> Yeah, I think it's like almost 600%
1:26:45increase or something crazy like that
1:26:47for kids who have
1:26:49gotten who've overdosed on melatonin
1:26:51like within There was a study that came
1:26:52out maybe a year ago, year and a half
1:26:54ago. Showed like almost 600%
1:26:57increase in overdoses for kids. Like
1:27:00that's pretty messed up when you start
1:27:01to think about it. And here's the thing,
1:27:03kids know how to sleep. Right? You just
1:27:05got to stop You just got to let them
1:27:07sleep, right? You got to give them some
1:27:08parameters. Here's when you go to bed,
1:27:09here's when you wake up. Don't get out
1:27:11of bed, you know, don't come in and ask
1:27:12for 12 glasses of water, you know, all
1:27:14the all this stuff that goes on there. I
1:27:16mean,
1:27:17this isn't hard.
1:27:18>> So when and how? So I used melatonin
1:27:20once in my life.
1:27:21>> Okay.
1:27:22>> And I've got to be honest, it [ __ ]
1:27:23worked.
1:27:23>> Yeah. Oh.
1:27:24>> Um.
1:27:25>> If you use it right, [laughter] it
1:27:26works, bro.
1:27:27>> And it was it was actually about a week
1:27:29ago because I'd been struggling with
1:27:30lots of jet lag. I'd flown from UK to
1:27:33the LA [clears throat] to UK to LA to
1:27:34Cape Town to Middle East to wherever.
1:27:37And
1:27:38I was getting to bed every night at like
1:27:394:00, 5:00 a.m. and still waking up at,
1:27:41you know, having to wake up at about
1:27:4210:00. So I thought I need to correct
1:27:44this. It's been going on for 2 weeks and
1:27:46I need to correct this. [laughter]
1:27:48>> I thought [ __ ] it, I'm going to cave. I
1:27:49took the melatonin and
1:27:52corrected it.
1:27:52>> Yes, it does. So let's talk about jet
1:27:54lag. So
1:27:56it's a bit of a story, but I got
1:27:58involved with a company that has got an
1:28:01app, which is very interesting. Okay? I
1:28:03don't have any like I'm not invested in
1:28:05the company just to be clear, but it's
1:28:07one of my close friends who developed
1:28:08this. So I'm I'm of a space nerd.
1:28:11>> Time shifter.
1:28:12>> It is time shifter.
1:28:12>> Oh, really?
1:28:13>> [laughter]
1:28:15>> It is time shifter.
1:28:15>> like an affiliation with time shifter.
1:28:17Cuz I I used to be
1:28:19>> [laughter]
1:28:19>> Yeah, I will get you that. So, here's
1:28:21what's fascinating is the way the whole
1:28:22time shifter started was um so, aren't
1:28:26you kind of a space guy? Like aren't you
1:28:27a space nerd? Like aren't you a space
1:28:28nerd? Like aren't you a space nerd?
1:28:29Okay, so I'm a space nerd myself, right?
1:28:31So, you know that the ISS is moving
1:28:34around at 17,500 mph around the earth.
1:28:36It's cooking.
1:28:37>> ISS meaning the International Space
1:28:38Station.
1:28:39>> yeah. It's whipping around, right?
1:28:41Can you imagine how many sunrises and
1:28:43sunsets they get in a given day?
1:28:45>> I don't know. How many?
1:28:46>> Every 2 hours. So, they basically get
1:28:4812.
1:28:49>> Wow.
1:28:50>> Think about how messed up their
1:28:51circadian rhythms would be from seeing
1:28:53the sunrise and seeing it go and seeing
1:28:54it gets really messed up, right? And by
1:28:56the way, you don't want to make big
1:28:57mistakes in the space station. Like you
1:28:59don't want to leave the airlock open,
1:29:00you know, or [ __ ] like that. Like that's
1:29:01when things get really, really bad. So,
1:29:03they called down to NASA and they were
1:29:05like, "Hey, we got a problem up here.
1:29:06Everybody wants to use the lab at the
1:29:08same time. Like people are seeing the
1:29:10sun. Like what's going on?" So, they
1:29:11called a buddy of mine named Steven
1:29:12Lockley over at Harvard.
1:29:14Steven is arguably the one of the best
1:29:16circadian researchers in the world. Um
1:29:18super smart dude. And he was like,
1:29:20"Well, let's send up a lighting kit and
1:29:22let's create shifts on the space
1:29:24station."
1:29:25>> Mhm.
1:29:25>> Right? [clears throat] So, that's
1:29:26exactly what they did. So, they sent up
1:29:27a lighting kit. I think it was on the
1:29:28Columbia um shuttle before it got
1:29:30decommissioned and they set up lighting
1:29:33and then they set up timing for
1:29:34lighting. And so, there was a morning
1:29:35shift, a mid shift, and a night shift
1:29:38for the astronauts. Once they got the
1:29:39algorithm working, they brought it down
1:29:41terrestrially and they put it into the
1:29:43Mercedes-Benz uh Formula 1 race car
1:29:45team. So, they gave it to Lewis
1:29:46Hamilton.
1:29:46>> Mhm.
1:29:47>> Right? Because when you think about it,
1:29:48think about what he has to do, right?
1:29:50He's on or off the podium on hundreds of
1:29:52a second, right? And he's in a different
1:29:54country every 3 weeks, right? So, this
1:29:56guy's got jet lag like you wouldn't
1:29:57believe. And so, once we were able to
1:29:58get it going there, then we created the
1:30:00time shifter app. And so, it's an app
1:30:02you can get it on your phone. And what
1:30:03you do is you put in your flight number
1:30:05and it automatically pulls up the flight
1:30:07and knows where you are. This is why I
1:30:09think that jet lag is a math problem.
1:30:12Let me explain. We learned about 20
1:30:14years ago that when you take a certain
1:30:15frequency and intensity of light and you
1:30:17shine it in somebody's eyes, you can
1:30:19move their circadian rhythm by about 8
1:30:21hours if you want to.
1:30:22>> That circadian rhythm again being
1:30:24>> being that internal biological clock,
1:30:26the times when your body wants to go to
1:30:27bed and wants to wake up. We can
1:30:29actually move that by about 8 hours with
1:30:32about 10,000 lux, which is the
1:30:34brightness level of a blue light,
1:30:36particular frequency of light, okay? So,
1:30:38when you hit that
1:30:39if you start in LA and you're going to
1:30:42Manchester, right? And there's a big
1:30:45time difference, and you know what time
1:30:47it is in LA and you know what time it is
1:30:48in Manchester, it's a math problem of
1:30:51when do you get the light?
1:30:54So, that's what Timeshifter is, is it
1:30:56determines when do you need that light?
1:30:58And then on the times when you don't
1:30:59need light, it has you use caffeine,
1:31:02right? Or to keep you awake, or if it's
1:31:04time to sleep, then you use a little bit
1:31:05of melatonin. That's when melatonin
1:31:08becomes so valuable.
1:31:09>> It also tells you when to eat.
1:31:11>> It does. It tells you all of these
1:31:12different things. And it's kind of nice
1:31:13cuz it kind of shows up on your phone.
1:31:15It's like, "Hey, do this then, do this
1:31:16then." And it works really, really well.
1:31:17But
1:31:18yeah, Timeshifter is one of my
1:31:20favorites. Uh I've been uh using it
1:31:22literally for 15 years.
1:31:24>> Wow.
1:31:26>> And it solves jet lag, bro. Like, we're
1:31:28going to fix that for you. No No
1:31:29question.
1:31:30>> How often should someone be having
1:31:32melatonin? Is there like too often? Cuz
1:31:34some people literally have it every day.
1:31:36>> Yeah, I would argue it's a bad idea. So,
1:31:38if you have a melatonin deficiency,
1:31:40sure, have it every day. But um or if
1:31:43you're a shift worker, probably. But I I
1:31:45use it only for jet lag myself. I
1:31:47otherwise I'm not using it on the
1:31:49regular.
1:31:50>> And what's the risk there of having it
1:31:51every day? Is it
1:31:52>> Uh it's a good question. So, when you
1:31:53start to look at melatonin overdose and
1:31:56you start to look at melatonin on board
1:31:57for long periods of time, there's been
1:31:59some conflict in the in the research. Um
1:32:02there's a group of people that say if
1:32:04you stay on melatonin for extended
1:32:05periods of time, your body stops
1:32:07producing it. There's another group of
1:32:09people that have looked at research and
1:32:10have said, "Actually, that's not the
1:32:12case." So, right now we have we have
1:32:14studies that lead out to about a year or
1:32:17so on melatonin and when you stop their
1:32:20melatonin production after they've been
1:32:21taking it for a year, their body seems
1:32:23to start back up no problem. It's
1:32:25different than testosterone, right? So,
1:32:26with testosterone, we know that when men
1:32:28start taking testosterone, their body
1:32:30actually stops producing it. With
1:32:32melatonin, that does not appear to be
1:32:33the case, but we don't have studies that
1:32:36go out past, you know, that year-long.
1:32:38And so, if somebody's been taking
1:32:39melatonin every day for 5, 10 years, you
1:32:42know, you you kind of start to wonder uh
1:32:44what's going to happen. Also, don't
1:32:46forget that that melatonin is different
1:32:48than the melatonin that's actually
1:32:49produced in your head.
1:32:50>> I think it was Andrew Huberman who I was
1:32:52speaking to a couple of weeks ago that
1:32:53was was saying about not giving kids an
1:32:56overdose of melatonin. And I think
1:32:58afterwards I I was doing some research
1:32:59on it and I read something that said
1:33:02it has an impact on puberty potentially.
1:33:05>> So,
1:33:06in high dosages, melatonin is a
1:33:07contraceptive.
1:33:09>> So, that would pause puberty.
1:33:10>> Exactly. Or change it.
1:33:13>> Okay.
1:33:13>> And ways we may or may not know. So, I
1:33:16agree with Andrew on that point that
1:33:18again, melatonin is not something that
1:33:20kids need unless you've got kids on the
1:33:21spectrum, which is again where I find it
1:33:23to be helpful and I've treated kids with
1:33:25that before. But generally speaking, I
1:33:28don't put melatonin on anybody under the
1:33:29age of 18.
1:33:30>> Am I more likely to have nightmares if
1:33:32I'm having lots of melatonin?
1:33:34>> If you're overdosing, you are. So, the
1:33:36number one side effect of a high dose of
1:33:39melatonin is super vivid dreams and then
1:33:41eventually nightmares.
1:33:42>> Why?
1:33:43>> I'm not really sure. If I was garnering
1:33:45a guess, then what I would say is that
1:33:48part of the reason why that you have
1:33:50crazy vivid dreams from melatonin is
1:33:53because it probably does put you into
1:33:55REM sleep a little bit quicker than you
1:33:57normally would and might keep you there
1:33:58a little bit longer. I don't have any
1:34:00data to support that, so I want to be
1:34:01clear. Um, this is more of a hypothesis
1:34:03on my end, but that might make intuitive
1:34:06sense to me.
1:34:07>> Just doing a quick search. Um,
1:34:08>> Sure.
1:34:08>> It's You're right. It says it keep keeps
1:34:10you in REM sleep a little bit longer and
1:34:12more intensely.
1:34:13>> There you go.
1:34:14>> This leads to vivid highly vivid dreams
1:34:15or night terrors, which paradoxically
1:34:17makes you wake up feeling more
1:34:18exhausted. Mm.
1:34:19>> Right. I can't count the number of
1:34:20people who tell me
1:34:22"I need to go back to sleep cuz I'm so
1:34:23exhausted from my dreams."
1:34:25>> Oh, wow.
1:34:26>> Right?
1:34:27>> So, let's finish off on the supplements,
1:34:28then.
1:34:28>> Yeah. Absolutely. So, we talked a little
1:34:30bit about melatonin, which like I said,
1:34:32select usage. Um, a couple of other ones
1:34:34that we've got here. Um, one of them is
1:34:36valerian, right? So, when we talk
1:34:38Valerian is probably the most studied.
1:34:41It's a root. Um, it's called the
1:34:42valerian root, but to be clear, it's an
1:34:44anti-anxiety medication, right? So, what
1:34:47it is is it's It helps lower your level
1:34:49of anxiety. Um, and that is the reason
1:34:52why it has a tendency to work.
1:34:53Interestingly, when you look at the
1:34:55data, it works better when combined with
1:34:57hops, like what you'd find in beer. So,
1:34:59a lot of times when you're looking for a
1:35:01preparation, you should look for
1:35:02valerian plus hops as the preparation.
1:35:06Also, we should talk for a second about
1:35:08supplements. A lot of people don't
1:35:09understand this, but a lot of people
1:35:11will put a whole bunch of different
1:35:13supplements together and put it into a
1:35:14capsule. I don't think that's the best
1:35:16idea. I think you should have single
1:35:18ingredient supplementation.
1:35:20>> Why?
1:35:20>> Well, number one, you get the correct
1:35:22dose, so you know it's actually working
1:35:23for you. There's a lot of companies out
1:35:25there that are that make a powder or
1:35:28something and they put it bunch of stuff
1:35:29in it and they put just enough in there
1:35:31to be able to say it on the ingredient
1:35:33profile, but not enough for it to
1:35:34actually do any good for the patient.
1:35:36So, [clears throat] I like using single
1:35:37ingredient
1:35:38supplement profiles because I know
1:35:40exactly how much of each thing that I'm
1:35:42going to get in there and I can make
1:35:43sure that it's the correct dosage for
1:35:44the what the person needs.
1:35:46So, I prefer single ingredient
1:35:47supplementation.
1:35:49>> Okay, so
1:35:50valer- valer- valerian
1:35:52>> Yep. Valerian
1:35:53>> root.
1:35:53>> Not going to mess up my hormones?
1:35:55>> Nope, it's not going to mess up your
1:35:56hormones.
1:35:57>> Is it going to help me with
1:35:57overthinking?
1:36:00>> Probably not. What it'll probably do is
1:36:01slow your thinking down a a little bit
1:36:03depending upon how much of it you take.
1:36:05Um I think if you were looking for a if
1:36:07you're looking for something that's
1:36:08going to slow down your thinking, then I
1:36:10would say we don't have the the thing
1:36:12here, but it's called GABA, g a b a. Um
1:36:15gamma aminobutyric acid. So, this is a
1:36:18substance that your body makes. It's
1:36:19kind of the brakes of the brain, and you
1:36:21can buy it um
1:36:23as a supplement. I've had some for
1:36:24people use that, and that seems to help
1:36:26calm people down in the evening times.
1:36:28>> What about ashwagandha, whatever it's
1:36:29called?
1:36:29>> Ashwagandha.
1:36:30>> Ashwagandha.
1:36:31>> Exactly. I just kind of like saying it.
1:36:33So, here's my theory on supplementation
1:36:35is the first thing I tell people to do
1:36:37is go do blood work. Okay? What
1:36:39deficiencies do you have? Fix your
1:36:42deficiencies first before we start going
1:36:45to the valerians and the melatonins of
1:36:47it all. If you're deficient in vitamin
1:36:49D, magnesium, iron,
1:36:52fix those three things first. Dude, I
1:36:55can't tell you I've got 15% of the
1:36:57people that show up at my doorstep, we
1:36:58do blood work on, and all I do is fix
1:37:00their deficiencies, and their sleep
1:37:02magically gets better.
1:37:03>> some of the surprising things that you
1:37:04discover in like blood sugar like
1:37:05diabetes, that impacts sleep, no?
1:37:07>> It absolutely does. I also think that a
1:37:09lot of people who have uncontrolled
1:37:11diabetes, it wakes them up in the middle
1:37:13of the night um because their blood
1:37:14sugar gets so low, and then they're
1:37:15hungry in the middle of the night, then
1:37:17they end up eating in the middle of the
1:37:18night, then they end up with sleep
1:37:18eating syndrome, which kind of a pain.
1:37:21>> This is one here that I've never heard
1:37:22of before. What's this one?
1:37:23>> Uh it's called tryptophan. So, uh
1:37:25L-tryptophan in in in particular. So,
1:37:28tryptophan is the substance that we find
1:37:31in turkey that has a tendency to make
1:37:33people sleepy. However, when you really
1:37:35look at the data, you'd have to eat a
1:37:3746-lb turkey in order to get enough
1:37:40tryptophan to make you sleep. Even in my
1:37:42best days in college, dude, I couldn't
1:37:44eat a 46-lb turkey, okay? Same holds
1:37:46true with milk. Um tryptophan is the
1:37:48thing in warm milk that's supposedly
1:37:50makes people uh sleepy, but once again,
1:37:52you'd have to drink almost a half a
1:37:53gallon of warm milk, which is kind of
1:37:55disgusting, um in order to do it.
1:37:57Tryptophan can be helpful for people if
1:37:59you have a tryptophan deficiency, but
1:38:01it's definitely something that lowers a
1:38:03little bit of anxiety and can make you
1:38:04feel a little bit sleepy, but it isn't
1:38:06naturally occurring amino acid in your
1:38:07system. Calcium?
1:38:09So, calcium turns out is interesting
1:38:12because when you mix calcium with
1:38:13magnesium, it's easier to absorb. So, uh
1:38:16for some people mag mag we've what we've
1:38:18discovered is if you have a magnesium
1:38:19deficiency and you fix the magnesium
1:38:22deficiency, in many cases it can
1:38:24actually help with overall sleep, and
1:38:26calcium is one of the things that can be
1:38:28added to it that helps with absorption.
1:38:30Now, unfortunately, the big problem is
1:38:33that there are 13 different kinds of
1:38:35magnesium out there, and so people don't
1:38:38know what's been studied and what
1:38:40hasn't. So, I'm here to let you know
1:38:41there's only a couple of brands out
1:38:44there that have actually been studied
1:38:45for magnesium. The ones I like is
1:38:48there's one called magnesium threonate,
1:38:51which is made by a company called Mag
1:38:53Teen. Um they actually have a published
1:38:55research study in the journals, that's
1:38:57why I mentioned their brand name. I have
1:38:58no association with them. There's also
1:39:00another company called Upgraded
1:39:02Formulas. They make a magnesium, and
1:39:05it's kind of funny story is the guy who
1:39:07runs mag uh Upgraded Formulas told me he
1:39:09says, "My magnesium is the best in the
1:39:11world. I can make anybody fall asleep."
1:39:12And I said, "Hey, you want to put your
1:39:13money where your mouth is? Let's do a
1:39:14clinical trial." He handed me a check
1:39:16for 75 grand. I went and did a clinical
1:39:18trial, and he was right. His magnesium
1:39:21really made people sleep better.
1:39:23>> What is magnesium doing?
1:39:24>> So, we're not 100% sure. In the
1:39:27deficient people, it's it's obviously
1:39:29clearing up the deficiency of magnesium,
1:39:32and then magnesium is used in about I
1:39:34think almost 300 different functions in
1:39:36the body, so it probably lets the body
1:39:38work more efficiently, and probably that
1:39:41helps to overall sleep. But I'm not
1:39:43convinced that we have the whole
1:39:45mechanism of action worked out. I will
1:39:46tell you that when people take
1:39:47magnesium, they tell me that they
1:39:50introspectively feel calmer. And we
1:39:52definitely know that it can definitely
1:39:53help cause a relaxation response in the
1:39:55musculature, so I think that might have
1:39:57something to do with it.
1:39:58>> Why did you bring up a banana and a
1:39:59knife and a teapot?
1:40:01>> This is my favorite way to get
1:40:02magnesium.
1:40:03>> Oh.
1:40:03>> A lot of people want to know how should
1:40:05I take my supplements? I'm tired of
1:40:07taking a fistful of pills every morning,
1:40:09Michael. There's these powders, like
1:40:10what what's the best way? The best way,
1:40:13so number one, supplementation is when
1:40:15you're not getting it all of the things,
1:40:16the vitamins and minerals that you need
1:40:18from your food. So, the best place to
1:40:20get it from is food, generally speaking.
1:40:22Turns out magnesium is one of the best
1:40:25ones, but it's problematic because we
1:40:26have to eat our magnesium, our body
1:40:28doesn't actually produce it ourselves.
1:40:30And by the way, you can eat a bushel of
1:40:32kale and still not get enough magnesium
1:40:34because here in the United States, the
1:40:36soil has been over tilled, which means
1:40:38the magnesium isn't in the soil, so it's
1:40:40not coming up through the root stocks
1:40:42and allowing people to have it. So, a
1:40:43lot of people require magnesium
1:40:45supplementation. Believe it or not,
1:40:47between magnesium and vitamin D, I'd say
1:40:48we'd probably covered most of America in
1:40:50terms of having a deficiency.
1:40:53Bananas are loaded with magnesium, but
1:40:55it turns out it's not the fruit, it's
1:40:57the peel
1:40:58>> Oh.
1:40:59>> itself. So, no, I'm not going to make
1:41:00you eat the peel. Don't worry. So, I
1:41:03developed a recipe that I call banana
1:41:05tea. All of this is is a regular old
1:41:07banana. So, what I what you do is you
1:41:08cut off the stem, right, and cut it in
1:41:11half, and then you drop it in to some
1:41:13boiling water, okay? So, we've already
1:41:15done this, right? And you can see the
1:41:17banana has turned brown,
1:41:19right? It's been soaking in the boiling
1:41:21water. So, it's not really tea, it's
1:41:22just basically hot banana water.
1:41:25But, with the banana from the skin, you
1:41:27also get these things called
1:41:28phytosteroids that actually help you
1:41:31absorb the magnesium better than if you
1:41:33just had it from a supplement. So, So,
1:41:35have to really like bananas. My daughter
1:41:36says it's very banana-y, Dad.
1:41:39The flavor, I mean.
1:41:44>> Oh, it does smell like banana.
1:41:45>> I'm telling you, if you like bananas
1:41:47>> It's nice.
1:41:48>> I know.
1:41:49>> It's nice.
1:41:49>> And you can use this as a like an
1:41:51evening ritual, and you can make banana
1:41:53tea, and have it in the evening with,
1:41:56you know, a biscuit or what have you,
1:41:57and have a nice and read a book and just
1:41:59be chill.
1:41:59>> How do I know the magnesium's actually
1:42:01in there?
1:42:01>> Cuz it came through from the from the um
1:42:03steeping in the water.
1:42:04>> Okay.
1:42:05>> We could test it if you want, but I can
1:42:06assure you it's in there. You need to
1:42:08leave it in there for about 5 minutes,
1:42:09and we've been talking for a while, so
1:42:10I'm pretty sure it's there.
1:42:11>> And and how long before sleep to get
1:42:12those effects?
1:42:13>> say about 25-30 minutes. You don't want
1:42:15to have too much, by the way, cuz then
1:42:16you're going to have to wake up and pee.
1:42:17So, try if you can
1:42:20to be able to have it about 30-40
1:42:21minutes before bed.
1:42:22>> So, you can put it in anything. So, a
1:42:23lot of people have different types of
1:42:24tea, so you could just use that as the
1:42:25water instead.
1:42:26>> Yeah. Oh, without question. Actually,
1:42:28that would be a really good idea. And
1:42:29you can if you did it if you mix it with
1:42:31like a fruit tea, like an herbal fruit
1:42:33tea, that would be really delicious.
1:42:35>> Are there any other supplements that
1:42:36you, you know, you do encourage people
1:42:38to take if they're struggling with sleep
1:42:39that we haven't talked about yet?
1:42:40>> We haven't talked about vitamin D, and
1:42:41that's a big one. So, it turns out that
1:42:43vitamin D is a circadian pacemaker. So,
1:42:46when light comes into your eyeballs, it
1:42:49helps change your whole uh circadian
1:42:51system, and if you're if light is coming
1:42:54in for a certain amount of time, about
1:42:5515 minutes, your body will start to
1:42:57produce vitamin D. Vitamin D does a
1:42:59whole host of important things to your
1:43:01body, but most importantly from a sleep
1:43:03perspective is it helps regulate
1:43:05melatonin and when your body produces
1:43:07it. So, by taking vitamin D every day,
1:43:09or getting 15 minutes of sunshine,
1:43:11either way, you're going to be in better
1:43:13shape. So, like as an example, my
1:43:15morning routine that I have all my
1:43:16patients do is I have them when they
1:43:17wake up in the morning,
1:43:19I have them uh go outside if it's if
1:43:22it's, you know, nice out, sit in a
1:43:23chair, and have 15 deep breaths merely
1:43:26to wake up the respiratory system, then
1:43:2815 oz of water, cuz once again,
1:43:30remember, you're dehydrated, and then 15
1:43:32minutes of sunshine. So, they can do all
1:43:33of this together at the same time, and
1:43:36it's a nice way to wake up in the
1:43:37morning.
1:43:39>> I don't know any founder who started
1:43:41their business because they like doing
1:43:42admin. But, whether you like it or not,
1:43:44it's a huge part of running a business
1:43:45successfully. And it's something that
1:43:47can quickly become all consuming,
1:43:48confusing, and honestly, a real tax
1:43:51because you know it's taking your
1:43:52attention away from the most important
1:43:54work. And that's why our sponsor, Intuit
1:43:56QuickBooks, helps my team streamline a
1:43:58lot of their admin. I asked my team
1:44:00about it, and they said it saves them
1:44:01around 12 hours a month. 78% of Intuit
1:44:05QuickBooks users say it's made running
1:44:08their business significantly easier. And
1:44:10Intuit QuickBooks new AI agent works
1:44:12with you to streamline all of your
1:44:14workflows. They sync with all of the
1:44:15tools that you currently use. They
1:44:16automate things that slow the wheel in
1:44:19the process of your business. They look
1:44:21after invoicing, payments, financial
1:44:22analysis, all of it in one place. But,
1:44:25what is great is that it's not just AI.
1:44:27There's still human support on hand if
1:44:29you need it. Intuit QuickBooks has
1:44:31evolved into a platform that scales with
1:44:33growing businesses. So, if you want help
1:44:34getting out of the weeds, out of admin,
1:44:37just search for Intuit QuickBooks now.
1:44:40This is something that I've made for
1:44:42you. I realized that the Diary of a CEO
1:44:44audience are strivers, whether it's in
1:44:45business or health. We all have big
1:44:48goals that we want to accomplish. And
1:44:49one of the things I've learned is that
1:44:51when you aim at the big, big, big goal,
1:44:54it can feel incredibly psychologically
1:44:57uncomfortable because it's kind of like
1:44:58being stood at the foot of Mount Everest
1:45:00and looking upwards. The way to
1:45:02accomplish your goals is by breaking
1:45:03them down into tiny, small steps. And we
1:45:06call this in our team the 1%. And
1:45:08actually, this philosophy is highly
1:45:10responsible for much of our success
1:45:12here. So, what we've done so that you at
1:45:14home can accomplish any big goal that
1:45:16you have is we've made these 1% diaries.
1:45:20And we released these last year, and
1:45:21they all sold out. So, I asked my team
1:45:23over and over again to bring the the
1:45:25back, but also to introduce some new
1:45:26colors, and to make some minor tweaks to
1:45:28the diary. So, now we have a better
1:45:31range for you. So, if you have a big
1:45:34goal in mind and you need a framework
1:45:36and a process and some motivation, then
1:45:38I highly recommend you get one of these
1:45:40diaries before they all sell out once
1:45:42again. And you can get yours now at the
1:45:44diary.com where you can get 20% off our
1:45:47Black Friday bundle. And if you want the
1:45:49link, the link is in the description
1:45:50below.
1:45:52So, let's talk about waking up in the
1:45:53morning.
1:45:54>> Sure.
1:45:54>> Morning routines.
1:45:55>> Yep.
1:45:55>> A lot of people talk about what's the
1:45:57perfect morning routine. Do you need to
1:45:58have a morning routine? What's your take
1:45:59on that?
1:46:00>> So,
1:46:01it depends upon how disciplined you want
1:46:03to be and it depends upon how much time
1:46:04you have. I can tell you what my morning
1:46:05routine is cuz it's very specific and I
1:46:08I've discovered that it works really,
1:46:09really well for me. So, I wake up
1:46:11naturally somewhere between 6:10 and
1:46:13about 6:25 or so. My body just seems to
1:46:16naturally wake up. I do 15 minutes of
1:46:18red light therapy. So, I have a red
1:46:19light in my office that I sit in front
1:46:22of and I do my meditation at the same
1:46:24time in the morning time. So, I have
1:46:25about 15 minutes of meditation.
1:46:27Sometimes what I'll do
1:46:29is
1:46:30I'll sit on the floor and the boys will
1:46:32come and sit on my lap and then we'll
1:46:34all meditate together. I know that
1:46:35sounds a little weird. Then
1:46:37we do a 15-minute walk. I try not to
1:46:39have any music or any telephone or
1:46:41anything like that
1:46:43at all up until this point. I put the
1:46:45dogs away and then I hit the gym. I'm at
1:46:47the gym from about 8:00 till about 9:30,
1:46:5010:00. I do a sauna every day afterwards
1:46:53and then I'm in front of my desk by
1:46:55about 10:30 and that's when I have my
1:46:57breakfast. And so, I make the same
1:46:59breakfast almost every morning. I do
1:47:01ground turkey with a third of a pound of
1:47:03ground turkey, three eggs, and broccoli
1:47:06and I I put it all into a skillet and I
1:47:08make it every morning.
1:47:09>> Do you use any sleep trackers?
1:47:10>> In the past, I've used a few of them. I
1:47:13I tried them out because a lot of my
1:47:15patients tried them out.
1:47:16I think if I was going to be looking at
1:47:18them, I think the Aura Ring probably
1:47:20does the best job. I really don't think
1:47:22they've gotten there quite yet cuz
1:47:24remember depth of sleep is based on
1:47:26brain waves and it's hard to get brain
1:47:27waves from your finger, right? And so
1:47:29what they're doing is they're creating a
1:47:30proxy so they're you're looking at heart
1:47:32rate or oxygen or pulse or something
1:47:35along those lines and then saying,
1:47:36"Okay, when Steven's at this pulse, we
1:47:39think he's in REM sleep so we're going
1:47:40to label every time that REM sleep."
1:47:43When in fact, they don't really know
1:47:44because they're not measuring your brain
1:47:45waves. So, I think until we get to the
1:47:47point where we can measure brain waves
1:47:49from distally, I think we'll have a
1:47:51little bit better shot at it. However,
1:47:54there's some interesting things that are
1:47:55going on kind of in the sleep tracker
1:47:57world and some people get a little too
1:47:58into the whole tracking of it all if you
1:48:00know what I mean. Like I can't count the
1:48:02number of people that are like, "Oh my
1:48:03god, Dr. Bruce, you know, this says I
1:48:05only slept 14 minutes last night. Like
1:48:07what do I do?" And I'm like, "Well,
1:48:09number one, how much did you sleep the
1:48:10night before?" And they say, "Oh, 16
1:48:12minutes." I'm like, "Okay, well, let's
1:48:13check you tomorrow." They come back in
1:48:14tomorrow, "It's even worse, 12 minutes."
1:48:16I'm like, "Oh, you're fine." They're
1:48:18like, "What?" I'm like, "Look, it's
1:48:20being consistently inaccurate. There's
1:48:22no way you only got 14 minutes of deep
1:48:23sleep, right? That's just not how the
1:48:25body works, right? But if you got 14
1:48:27minutes, 14 minutes and then one night
1:48:29you look at your score and it's 407
1:48:31minutes, I want [clears throat] to know
1:48:32what happened on that night.
1:48:33>> My friend was a big fan of Whoop so he
1:48:36told me to try Whoop. I tried a Whoop.
1:48:38The the most I think critical thing it's
1:48:39done for me is it allowed me to create
1:48:45some understanding of like causation and
1:48:47like
1:48:47>> associations
1:48:47>> associations with my sleep. So, one of
1:48:49the ones that completely changed my life
1:48:51when I first wore my Whoop, which by the
1:48:53way I'm an investor in the company so I
1:48:54have to disclaimer that, um
1:48:56was I didn't realize how impactful sleep
1:48:59alcohol was on my sleep.
1:49:00>> It's massive, dude.
1:49:01>> my mind because I had [laughter] had one
1:49:03glass of wine
1:49:04>> Yep.
1:49:05>> and then the bloody Whoop thing said,
1:49:06"Shh, you're either really sick
1:49:09um really stressed or you drank
1:49:11alcohol." And then I watched a video
1:49:12online where they compared all of the
1:49:14devices to the hospital grade stuff.
1:49:17>> Yep, polysomnography.
1:49:18>> And the Whoop 4 was the closest to the
1:49:21hospital grade. And then I contacted the
1:49:23company and said could I invest etc.
1:49:24etc. I also tried I've also tried like
1:49:25Eight Sleep and
1:49:27>> I would argue that temperature, like if
1:49:28we're talking about what is the easiest
1:49:30thing to manipulate to change your sleep
1:49:31either good or bad, temperature is it.
1:49:34Um and people don't realize it, but you
1:49:36can change the temperature in your
1:49:38bedroom, even in your bed, and you can
1:49:41change the quality of your sleep. You
1:49:43mentioned Eight Sleep, that's a company
1:49:44that has a a topper type of thing that
1:49:46can change the uh the temperature
1:49:48underneath the covers. There's also
1:49:50taking a look at the the accoutrement
1:49:52that's on, so pillows, sheets,
1:49:54comforters, all of those things. But if
1:49:55you can get your body to cool down, your
1:49:58body will go down and get into deeper
1:50:00stages of sleep. If you can stay cool
1:50:03versus bumping up and down all night
1:50:05long, let's say you're a woman in
1:50:07menopause, right? That becomes highly
1:50:09disruptive. And so buying a by being
1:50:11able to
1:50:12keep a consistent temperature stimulus
1:50:14to the body, it ends up sleeping a whole
1:50:16lot better.
1:50:17>> Dreams.
1:50:18>> Let's talk about dreams.
1:50:19>> People are so fascinated by dreams.
1:50:20>> Aren't they? I love it.
1:50:22>> But but so little is known about dreams.
1:50:24>> Yeah. Well, yes and no. I mean, here's
1:50:27the thing.
1:50:28Dreams have been studied honestly since
1:50:30the dawn of time. If you look in the
1:50:32Bible, you will see that people are
1:50:34talking about dreams. If you look at
1:50:36ancient texts, people are wondering
1:50:38about these crazy movies that are going
1:50:40on in my head, right? When you start to
1:50:42look at dreams, here's the thing that I
1:50:44will tell you is
1:50:46dreams mean something to the dreamer.
1:50:48They don't necessarily mean something to
1:50:50somebody who is not the dreamer. And so
1:50:52when I do dream work, and so I so to be
1:50:54clear, just take a step back. I took a
1:50:57year and a half and I became a dream
1:50:58therapist. So, what does that mean? What
1:51:01is that even Is that even a thing? So,
1:51:03dream therapy, by the way, is not dream
1:51:06interpretation. That is not here's a
1:51:08symbol, here's what that means. Dream
1:51:10therapy is where you use dreams in the
1:51:13therapeutic context to help people with
1:51:16things like depression and anxiety.
1:51:18>> Mhm.
1:51:18>> Let me give you an example, a nightmare,
1:51:21right? So, when somebody has Let's say
1:51:22somebody was in an active theater of war
1:51:24and they watched one of their friends,
1:51:26God forbid, something terrible happened
1:51:28to them and that image is now in their
1:51:30head and now they constantly have this
1:51:32image over and over and over. But, what
1:51:33happens is they're going going going and
1:51:35they wake up. They're going going going
1:51:36they wake up. We talked a little bit
1:51:38about it earlier that dreams are
1:51:40emotional metabolism. Right? So, dreams
1:51:43are where you work out all of these
1:51:45different things that are going on in
1:51:47your head and kind of become okay with
1:51:48them so that way next day you can kind
1:51:50of move forward and keep keep doing your
1:51:52thing.
1:51:53>> Do we need to explain why we dream? Cuz
1:51:55I think that's the big sort of
1:51:57>> Sure. So, there's a couple of theories.
1:51:59One theory is is that this is a great
1:52:01stage for for practice, right? So, we
1:52:04dream about things that we're eventually
1:52:05going to try in the real world and so we
1:52:07get a chance to practice them in our
1:52:09head beforehand to to make sure it
1:52:11doesn't we don't kind of screw the whole
1:52:13thing up. So, there's that whole idea of
1:52:15being able to kind of work stuff out in
1:52:17my head. Then there's the processing
1:52:19idea that we talked about before where
1:52:20this is emotional metabolism. So,
1:52:22>> Therapy.
1:52:23>> Right. Exactly. It's like you go to
1:52:24therapy every single night. I Actually,
1:52:26it's a really good way to think about
1:52:27it. I hadn't thought about it like that,
1:52:28but I think I'm going to use that. I'm
1:52:29going to take that from you. Um I like
1:52:31that dreams are therapy every single
1:52:33night because they really are. You're
1:52:34really moving through a lot of that
1:52:36emotionality. Some people think dreams
1:52:38are complete nonsense. Some people think
1:52:40that's just some crazy movie in your
1:52:41head and it's just this after effect of
1:52:43your brain moving into a different mode
1:52:45and who knows what it could mean. I find
1:52:47that one hard to believe myself.
1:52:49>> Because humans don't do anything
1:52:51>> I don't think so.
1:52:52>> that isn't for some type of survival
1:52:54benefit.
1:52:54>> For sure.
1:52:55>> It's a waste of
1:52:56energy or you know
1:52:57>> Yeah, I agree. And so, if we looked at
1:52:59it from an evolutionary perspective,
1:53:01like what is the evolutionary purpose of
1:53:04dreams? I would argue that it probably
1:53:06has something to do with emotions and
1:53:08being able to uh uh move through some
1:53:11emotionally difficult times and or it's
1:53:13an early warning system. A lot of people
1:53:14dream things and uh it helps them
1:53:17understand something else that's going
1:53:18on in their life. You ever heard the um
1:53:20thing uh people say I before I make a
1:53:22just big decision I want to sleep on it?
1:53:24>> Yeah.
1:53:24>> Right? This is what they're doing is
1:53:26when they sleep on it, all these
1:53:27desperate pieces of information come
1:53:29together and work themselves so that you
1:53:31can come to a solution. So, I think the
1:53:33other thing that reason that we dream is
1:53:35to come to solutions and to create
1:53:37innovation.
1:53:38>> That tracks in my life. I I can be
1:53:41going to bed really thinking about
1:53:42something quite like, you know, hi
1:53:45remunerating about something to the
1:53:46point that it's like overthinking and
1:53:48it's a problem, it's stressing me out. I
1:53:50can get 8 hours sleep and wake up and
1:53:53it's like the clouds have parted.
1:53:55>> Right? It's like magic.
1:53:56>> It's like magic.
1:53:57>> It's great.
1:53:57>> And I really I realized this in the last
1:53:59couple of years when, you know, business
1:54:00my business has got bigger and there was
1:54:02more problems to to work through.
1:54:04>> Right.
1:54:05>> But like actually I could use sleep as a
1:54:07weapon against the problem.
1:54:08>> Absolutely.
1:54:09>> Versus trying to stay up all night and
1:54:10solve the problem, I could focus on the
1:54:12sleep to solve the problem.
1:54:13>> Yeah, I do that all the time. And And
1:54:15what you can actually do, it's called
1:54:17priming, is you can think about the
1:54:19problem in a in a way before you go to
1:54:21sleep and then it triggers your brain to
1:54:24think about the problem while you're
1:54:25sleeping.
1:54:25>> Would you write it down or would you
1:54:27>> There's a lot of different ways you can
1:54:28go about doing it. So, for example, what
1:54:29I have some people do is write down
1:54:31everything they can remember in their
1:54:32dream beforehand before they come to
1:54:34therapy. But what you can do is
1:54:36something different. If you want to
1:54:38change your dream, you write it all down
1:54:40but that you change the ending.
1:54:42Okay? And you read it several times
1:54:44before bed and it will actually change
1:54:46your dream.
1:54:47>> So, what am I writing down before bed
1:54:48then?
1:54:49>> So, let's say you had a scary dream,
1:54:50okay? You're walking through a haunted
1:54:52house and something terrible is going to
1:54:53happen when you walk out the back door.
1:54:54>> The night before?
1:54:55>> Yeah, the night before. Then I have you
1:54:57write all of that down and then when you
1:54:59come into session with me, I say, "Okay,
1:55:01we're going to change the ending cuz at
1:55:02the at the very end you walked out onto
1:55:03the fortune somebody
1:55:05got you, right?" So, instead of that
1:55:07happening, you're going to walk out of
1:55:08the fortune you're going to pull out a
1:55:09gun and you're going to shoot the guy.
1:55:10Okay? And so, we change that in the
1:55:12dream in the right in what you wrote
1:55:14down, and then we talk about it in
1:55:16therapy, and then right before bed you
1:55:18read this to yourself multiple times,
1:55:21and it over 7 to 10 days you change the
1:55:24ending of the dream.
1:55:26>> And how does that help?
1:55:28>> So, it makes it more positive. And when
1:55:29you change the ending of the reason
1:55:31you're waking up is something is scaring
1:55:32you so much that you're waking up and
1:55:34you stop processing. And so, when you
1:55:35change the ending and you don't wake up,
1:55:37you continue to process and then you
1:55:38move past the dream. Just like you said,
1:55:40when you wake up and the clouds have
1:55:42cleared. A lot of people wake up and the
1:55:44clouds don't clear cuz they have
1:55:45nightmares. And they keep repeating it
1:55:47over and over and over again.
1:55:49>> Hmm.
1:55:50>> It's quite remarkable. The process is
1:55:52very interesting. So, what I do is I
1:55:54bring them into session, put them into a
1:55:55mild hypnotic state only by doing some
1:55:58simple breath work, right? So, let me
1:56:00give you an example of somebody that I
1:56:01worked with and tell you exactly how it
1:56:03went. So, I was working with somebody
1:56:05who had had pretty significant trauma.
1:56:07They had been raped, right? And so, they
1:56:08were having nightmares about this. So, a
1:56:10serious situation, right? So, she had a
1:56:12she had a nightmare of being in a
1:56:14jungle. And so, I had her come in
1:56:16session, wrote it all down, and when we
1:56:18got to the end, we were walking through
1:56:20the jungle which she was actually being
1:56:21chased through the jungle. So, I turned
1:56:23to her and I say, "Okay, well, we're in
1:56:24the jungle. Tell me more about this
1:56:26jungle."
1:56:27And she said, "What do you mean?" I
1:56:28said, "Well, in jungles there's lots of
1:56:30tropical plants. There are there a lot
1:56:31of colorful flowers." And she'll stop.
1:56:33And you can see she's looking around
1:56:35inside her head at the dreamscape. And
1:56:38then she says, "Oh, there are there's
1:56:40some beautiful flowers over there." I've
1:56:42now advanced the dream, right? Because
1:56:44she didn't know there were flowers
1:56:45before. Now she's imagined that there
1:56:47are flowers, I'm moving the dream
1:56:48forward. So, we go over and we smell the
1:56:50flower and I said, "Well, you know,
1:56:51usually in jungles there's there's
1:56:52animals. Are there any animals?"
1:56:54Tick tick tick tick tick tick, tick,
1:56:55Yeah, there's a lion.
1:56:57Oh gosh, is the lion friendly?
1:56:59Yeah, the lion is friendly. Can we go
1:57:01over and talk to the lion?
1:57:03Yeah, Michael, we can. So, again, in her
1:57:05head, we walk over. So, I say to her,
1:57:08Uh does the lion have a name? And she
1:57:10said, I don't know, let me ask. So, she
1:57:12asked the lion his name, and she said,
1:57:13yeah, his name is Jack. And I said, what
1:57:15does Jack mean to you? And instantly,
1:57:18she says, Jack was my uncle, and he
1:57:20saved me from getting raped by my
1:57:21stepfather.
1:57:23Now, we're getting somewhere.
1:57:26Now, we understand what's chasing her.
1:57:28Now, we understand where she's headed
1:57:29to. She's trying to head to the person
1:57:31that saved her.
1:57:33Now, she starts to understand where this
1:57:34dream is coming from, and guess what? In
1:57:37three or four more sessions, she doesn't
1:57:38have to dream anymore.
1:57:40>> Because you did what?
1:57:42>> Because she now understands where it is.
1:57:43She's no longer scared in the middle of
1:57:45her dream. She's able to understand it,
1:57:47wake up, and move forward.
1:57:49It's remarkable.
1:57:52It's kind of the coolest thing ever, if
1:57:53you want to know the truth of the
1:57:54matter.
1:57:54>> [laughter]
1:57:55>> Working with people's dreams is just
1:57:56amazing stuff.
1:57:57>> And for people at home that might not
1:57:58have access to you, um is is this is
1:58:01there a simple thing that they can do to
1:58:03start to sort of get a hold of these
1:58:04dreams?
1:58:05>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Number one is you
1:58:06could actually start a dream journal.
1:58:08So, it's just a journal, um and there's
1:58:10a couple things that you would write
1:58:11down in a given dream journal. So, you
1:58:13might write down um what was the theme,
1:58:15right? So, was it what like describe it,
1:58:18like was it dark out? Was it light out?
1:58:20Uh was it scary? Was it happy? You might
1:58:22describe the surroundings of it, and you
1:58:24might describe the people that are in it
1:58:26as well. Um and start listing these
1:58:28things, and getting as detailed as you
1:58:30possibly can. Once you've kind of gotten
1:58:32through the point of getting the details
1:58:34down of your dream, then, if you want to
1:58:37change them, you can change the ending.
1:58:39It's not hard. You just change it to way
1:58:41you want it to be. Then, you start to
1:58:43read it over for yourself. Now, I want
1:58:45to be clear,
1:58:46in terrible nightmare situations, this
1:58:48can be a little bit difficult, and so
1:58:50you're probably going to want to talk
1:58:50with your therapist about it and maybe
1:58:52work with a therapist while doing
1:58:54something like this, but it is
1:58:55absolutely possible to collect
1:58:56information from in a dream journal and
1:58:59be able to do some interesting stuff
1:59:00with it. I would not recommend taking
1:59:03your dream and stuffing it into chat GPT
1:59:05and asking chat GPT what it means.
1:59:08Lots and lots of people are doing that
1:59:10these days and here's why that's
1:59:11probably not the best idea. So number
1:59:14one, unless chat GPT really knows and
1:59:17understands you, there it's going to
1:59:18give some very broad-based sort of
1:59:21encyclopedia, you know, here's a symbol
1:59:23that means this type of thing, which
1:59:25once again, we have very little evidence
1:59:26that that actually works. So I would
1:59:29argue that you're better off talking
1:59:30about your dreams with people who know
1:59:32you
1:59:33cuz they can actually help you
1:59:34understand a little bit more about
1:59:35what's going on.
1:59:36>> There's a few other items on the table
1:59:37here.
1:59:38>> Yeah.
1:59:38>> Um I mean this is I don't use this exact
1:59:40one, but maybe I should, but this has
1:59:42been an absolute game-changer for me. So
1:59:45when I travel, when I'm on planes,
1:59:47>> I love a good sleep mask. My wife says
1:59:49it looks like I'm living in the '50s,
1:59:51>> [laughter]
1:59:52>> you know, when I'm wearing it, but I
1:59:53love a good sleep mask. That one in
1:59:55particular is pretty cool cuz you can
1:59:56remove the eye cups and you can change
1:59:59the sizing of where you want it and then
2:00:01these can actually you can replace these
2:00:02with things that heat or cool,
2:00:04but I love that that particular eye
2:00:06mask. It works. Yeah, it really works
2:00:09quite well. It's very dark in there. You
2:00:12definitely can't see up there.
2:00:13Right?
2:00:15And then I've got one more thing that I
2:00:16think people will find interesting.
2:00:18>> I can't explain how how much of a
2:00:19game-changer it has been to cover my
2:00:21eyes when I go to sleep because
2:00:23gosh, the amount of nights per week
2:00:25where I don't know, there's like a crack
2:00:26in the
2:00:27in the curtains or I don't know, someone
2:00:29gets up early and
2:00:31>> Well, also for you, you're traveling all
2:00:32the time. So you're in different you're
2:00:34in planes, you're in different
2:00:35environments. Also, by the way, every
2:00:37time you're in a different environment,
2:00:38you have something called the first
2:00:39night effect. So we see this with every
2:00:42human on earth. When you sleep in a new
2:00:43place for the first night, you never
2:00:45sleep well because it's new sounds, new
2:00:47sights, you know, new smells, all that
2:00:49stuff is new. So, what's nice about
2:00:51having this is when I put one of these
2:00:52on, I don't have to worry about light, I
2:00:54don't have to worry about anything.
2:00:56>> Does CO2 play a role? In what way? In
2:00:59changing sleep. I was thinking if
2:01:00ventilation, the amount of oxygen in the
2:01:02room matters at all because sometimes I
2:01:03go to hotels and they don't have windows
2:01:05you can open.
2:01:06>> Right. So, air quality is also a
2:01:09important thing, not just air quantity,
2:01:11right? And so, number number one thing,
2:01:13if I was to tell people, "Hey, here's an
2:01:15easy thing to do to to make your sleep
2:01:17better." Just go out and buy an air
2:01:18purifier for your bedroom. Think about
2:01:20it. It's the room you spend more time in
2:01:22than any other room in the house. You
2:01:24want that air to be fresh and filtered,
2:01:26right? And not a big It's not expensive.
2:01:2820 25 bucks, one sits in the corner,
2:01:31just runs the air cycles all day long.
2:01:33That way you know you have good, clean,
2:01:35fresh air. Um also, I tell people open
2:01:38the windows once a week. Um it's good to
2:01:40get fresh air in. Now, the only problem
2:01:41comes is if you have allergies and the
2:01:44allergens fly in and there's pollen or
2:01:46dust or things like that, that can be
2:01:48somewhat problematic. But generally
2:01:50speaking, if you don't have enough
2:01:52oxygen going on, you're definitely not
2:01:54going to sleep well and your body's
2:01:55going to wake up. So, if you were in
2:01:56let's say a oxygen restrictive
2:01:58environment. So, let's say that you were
2:02:01underneath the covers,
2:02:02>> Mhm.
2:02:02>> right? And you've got the thing all all
2:02:04the way over your head, you're not going
2:02:05to sleep particularly well and
2:02:06eventually you're going to get so feel
2:02:08so restricted that you're going to open
2:02:09up the covers.
2:02:10>> I want to understand the best possible
2:02:12sleep position. I do have a bed um in
2:02:14the room next door that we'll go to and
2:02:16talk about these pillows. But before we
2:02:17do that,
2:02:18>> Sure.
2:02:18>> I would like to talk about
2:02:21relationships, arguing with your
2:02:23partner, sex, all those kinds of things.
2:02:26What do I need to know
2:02:28to protect my sleep but also to protect
2:02:29my relationship? If we start with
2:02:30talking about I know you you wrote about
2:02:31it in your book um The Power of When,
2:02:34you talked about I think it's on page
2:02:35100
2:02:36101, you talk about arguing with your
2:02:38partner before bed.
2:02:39>> Yes.
2:02:41Possibly the worst thing you can
2:02:42possibly do is argue with your partner
2:02:45before bed. Um, because it's increasing
2:02:48heart rate, right? What I tell all my
2:02:51patients to do is if you if you need to
2:02:53have an important discussion with your
2:02:55spouse or your partner, do it right
2:02:57after dinner. Right? So, like in that
2:02:597:00 8:00 range, 7:00 to 8:00 range, so
2:03:02that way you have enough space and time
2:03:04to be able to discuss something and not
2:03:06hopefully go to bed angry, if you can
2:03:08avoid it at all possible. It happens.
2:03:10Look, I can't say that I've never gone
2:03:11to bed angry. I'm sure you can't say
2:03:13that either. Sometimes things are a
2:03:15bigger deal, but if you can find better
2:03:17times to schedule those things, it work
2:03:19out a lot better. For me, the other
2:03:21thing that I often times ask a lot of my
2:03:23patients to do is, for example, if
2:03:25there's known issues that are going on,
2:03:27like let's say somebody's going through
2:03:28marital therapy or there's there's an
2:03:30issue that they're trying to work on,
2:03:32then maybe that's better off done at
2:03:3411:00 in the daytime versus starting to
2:03:37kind of address some of those issues in
2:03:39the evening time. I like evening times
2:03:40to be as stress-free as humanly
2:03:42possible.
2:03:44Now, if you got something you got to
2:03:45talk about, you got to talk about it.
2:03:46But generally speaking, I would say the
2:03:49the less emotionality that you have in
2:03:52towards the evening, the better, unless
2:03:54it's joy
2:03:55>> or happiness. So many couples, they have
2:03:56these difficult conversations on the
2:03:57pillow.
2:03:58>> Yeah.
2:03:58>> Including me sometimes.
2:03:59>> Yeah. Well, and you makes sense. Like,
2:04:01when else do you see that person, right?
2:04:02You haven't seen them all day. You're
2:04:04you're literally face-to-face. Like,
2:04:05"Hey, I got something I got to talk to
2:04:06you about. This is kind of the best time
2:04:08to do it."
2:04:08>> your sex life as well, doesn't it?
2:04:10>> Absolutely ruins your sex life, unless
2:04:11you have makeup sex afterwards, and then
2:04:13it's great. But at the end of the day,
2:04:15it's not a lot of fun to have those
2:04:17conversations at night. That's again why
2:04:19I choose to if I'm going to have that
2:04:20conversation, the best time, honestly,
2:04:22to do it is right after breakfast.
2:04:24>> In my relationship, we find
2:04:26difficult conversations at nighttime.
2:04:27>> Good. That's probably a smart move,
2:04:29dude.
2:04:29>> You're tired, and it's going to disrupt
2:04:31your sleep.
2:04:32>> Right.
2:04:32>> You you can't think straight. You're
2:04:34probably more emotional.
2:04:35>> And you haven't put all the pieces
2:04:36together yet of the issues that are
2:04:38really going on. I can assure you if you
2:04:40sleep and then have your discussion in
2:04:41the morning, you'll actually think about
2:04:43the issue better.
2:04:45>> It's so crazy as I've gotten older I've
2:04:47realized how much of my mood is
2:04:49determined by my sleep. Like it's so And
2:04:52I think it's got worse with age.
2:04:54>> Oh, absolutely it does.
2:04:55>> Because at 25
2:04:56>> You could blow [ __ ] off. Oh, yeah. Or
2:04:58you could drink a Monster or a you know,
2:05:00Red Bull or whatever. Yeah. Sleep
2:05:02matters. And I think that's what you're
2:05:04that's that's the button that you're
2:05:05pushing here. And I think it's important
2:05:07for your audience to hear that, right?
2:05:08Is look, you're 33 years old and you're
2:05:10already seeing things changing in your
2:05:12sleep that have a big effect in your
2:05:14life. I'm 58 years old, okay? I see the
2:05:17same thing happening. Everybody Sleep is
2:05:19so fundamental to the human condition
2:05:22that it's one of those things that we've
2:05:23got to really pay attention to. And the
2:05:26thing is most people don't pay attention
2:05:27to it cuz they're like, "Well, my body
2:05:28does it automatically, Michael. Like how
2:05:30tough could this be? I walk into that
2:05:31room in the back of the house, I turn
2:05:32off the lights, ah, I go to bed. Then I
2:05:34wake up, something magical happens and I
2:05:35should be great, right?" Doesn't always
2:05:37work that way.
2:05:39>> I was reading in your work about the
2:05:41best time to fall in love.
2:05:42>> Yes.
2:05:43>> It's a strange thing for a
2:05:45>> Right?
2:05:46>> somebody of your profession to be
2:05:47thinking about. Was it in this book, was
2:05:49it?
2:05:49>> Yeah, it was.
2:05:50>> Yeah.
2:05:51>> When you think about it
2:05:53everything is based on timing, right?
2:05:55So, the timing when your hormones are at
2:05:58a certain point and you meet that person
2:05:59and their hormones are at a certain
2:06:01point and then all of the sudden there's
2:06:03a connection. Right? That's hard to do
2:06:06when you're exhausted, right? Try going
2:06:09on a first date when you're complete
2:06:11like when it's the worst, right? You
2:06:13know you're not giving a good impression
2:06:14of yourself. You know that you're not
2:06:16giving a good impression of that person
2:06:17because your mind is not going where it
2:06:19needs to be. So, there's timing involved
2:06:22and understanding your chronotype and
2:06:25that person's chronotype really leads
2:06:27you in that positive direction. And I
2:06:30would argue that it's pretty easy to
2:06:31fall in love with that time.
2:06:33>> Okay, so in your book um Power of When
2:06:35>> Yes.
2:06:36>> on page 90
2:06:38uh four, you say dolphins' best mood is
2:06:40in the afternoon to evening. So, uh the
2:06:42best time for them to fall in love is
2:06:438:00 p.m.
2:06:43>> Yep.
2:06:44>> Lions, 7:00 a.m.
2:06:46>> Right, cuz remember they're early
2:06:47morning people. They're exhausted at the
2:06:49end.
2:06:49>> Damn. So, they should be going on
2:06:51morning dates.
2:06:51>> Yes.
2:06:52>> Bears, 4:00 p.m. And the wolf like me
2:06:55>> Yes.
2:06:56>> 11:00 p.m. That tracks.
2:06:57>> Yeah.
2:06:58I get it.
2:06:59>> So, should I be doing my you know, I'm
2:07:01Okay, I'm in a relationship. I'm
2:07:03about to be married.
2:07:04>> Yes.
2:07:04>> But um
2:07:05>> I heard you got engaged.
2:07:06Congratulations.
2:07:07>> so much.
2:07:07>> Yeah.
2:07:07>> But I should be doing my dates later. It
2:07:09kind of tracks. That's kind of when I
2:07:10did them.
2:07:11>> Well, look at your whole schedule, dude.
2:07:12You don't do a thing before 11:00.
2:07:14>> That's true.
2:07:14>> Right? I think you're exactly like I am.
2:07:17>> Shall we go and look at the best
2:07:18possible sleep position?
2:07:20>> Yeah, let's check it out. And we'll talk
2:07:21about pillows, too.
2:07:22>> Okay, so I'll bring all the pillows with
2:07:23me. Okay, great. Okay, so we're going to
2:07:24go into the next room where there's a
2:07:25bed, and you're going to tell me what
2:07:27can you tell me when we look at the bed?
2:07:29How can you help?
2:07:29>> So, there's a couple of different
2:07:30things. So, number one, I'm going to
2:07:31look at your starting sleep position,
2:07:33and I'm going to give you some feedback
2:07:34about that. Then we're going to fit you
2:07:35for the right kind of pillow for you,
2:07:38and then there's some cool technology in
2:07:39there that I want to show you as well
2:07:41that can help keep you cool all night
2:07:42long.
2:07:43>> And do we need to take this with us?
2:07:44>> Yes, take the all right
2:07:45>> that one. And then how many pillows are
2:07:46there?
2:07:46>> I think there's five.
2:07:48>> There's five different pillows. Okay,
2:07:50great. Let's go.
2:07:50>> all do different things.
2:07:51>> Okay.
2:07:53Okay, so we're now downstairs in a
2:07:55bedroom we have in the house. I have
2:07:57lots of pillows here.
2:07:58>> Quite a few.
2:07:59>> And there's a bunch of questions I have
2:08:00for you. The first is
2:08:01pillows, do they matter? Is there a
2:08:02perfect one? Is it different for every
2:08:04individual? Sleeping position, is there
2:08:07a perfect sleeping position?
2:08:09>> There is.
2:08:09>> And the third one is about temperature.
2:08:12>> You got it. Let's go.
2:08:13>> So,
2:08:14I just grab whatever pillow is in the
2:08:15bed wherever I travel.
2:08:16>> Terrible idea.
2:08:17>> Really?
2:08:17>> Terrible idea. So, first of all, a lot
2:08:19of people need to understand that a
2:08:20pillow is a bed for your head, right?
2:08:23And so, the goal here is to keep your
2:08:25nose in line with your sternum, which is
2:08:27sort of the center part of your chest,
2:08:29right? And but you don't want it facing
2:08:31down and you don't want it facing up.
2:08:32You want it to be completely in the
2:08:33center like that. And so if you have a
2:08:35pillow that tilts your head to the one
2:08:37way or tilts your head to the other, it
2:08:39causes a pain signal from the strain of
2:08:41the musculature that goes to your brain
2:08:43and you don't get into deep sleep. So
2:08:45you really want to make sure that you've
2:08:46got a good pillow, otherwise you end up
2:08:48with a crick in your neck, you don't get
2:08:49good deep sleep, becomes problematic.
2:08:51>> Okay.
2:08:52>> Right? So the big question is, how do
2:08:54you pick a pillow, right? So first
2:08:56question you want to ask yourself is
2:08:57squishy or firm, right? So let's take a
2:09:00look at our tower of pillows here.
2:09:03So for you, let's let's take a look. So
2:09:06this is a pretty firm one. This is a
2:09:08basically a foam-based hunk of foam
2:09:09pillow, right? Versus this one, which is
2:09:12sort of the normal kind of pillow, much
2:09:14more squishy. So which are you? Are
2:09:16squishy or a firm?
2:09:17>> That one.
2:09:18>> Okay, perfect. So you're more on the
2:09:19squishy, which means you like to
2:09:20manipulate the pillow. You don't want it
2:09:22to have a huge form factor where your
2:09:23like head is on a block of cheese,
2:09:25right? Got it. So perfect. So let's move
2:09:27this foam pillow out of the way.
2:09:30The second thing you want to look at
2:09:31from the pillow is
2:09:33when the fabric comes together here, it
2:09:35forms what's called a knife's edge. So
2:09:37it's where the two pieces of fabric
2:09:39meet. Now, why is that important?
2:09:41Because when you have your head on a
2:09:43pillow like this and the knife's edge is
2:09:46down here, you're not getting as much
2:09:47support underneath your neck here,
2:09:49right? So in order to fix that, we have
2:09:52something called a gusset. So a gusset
2:09:54is this piece of fabric that comes along
2:09:57here. So you notice these two pieces of
2:09:58fabric don't meet. There's a thickness
2:10:00here. So when you were to sleep on it,
2:10:02it actually catches you all the way
2:10:04down. So let's say you would be like
2:10:05this, you would it gives you support all
2:10:07the way down. Now, you don't like the
2:10:09foam of it all, but you do like the the
2:10:12gusset, right?
2:10:13>> Mhm.
2:10:14>> Here's one that's got the gusset without
2:10:16the foam. So it's squishy and has the
2:10:18gusset. So if you were going to use this
2:10:20>> Mhm, that's good.
2:10:21>> So now we've been able to fit you for
2:10:23the pillow. Now, the next question we
2:10:24have, uh well, the last one is there's
2:10:27some special types of pillows, actually.
2:10:29This one has got a cutout. So, you
2:10:31notice how that's got like a moon here?
2:10:33It fits perfectly here. And notice,
2:10:36right? This is This is my personal
2:10:38pillow.
2:10:38>> Oh, okay. I [laughter] can
2:10:39>> So,
2:10:39>> Yeah, after shift. [snorts]
2:10:40>> I know, sorry. Um and so, you can see it
2:10:42really comes all the way down to your
2:10:44neck and it gives you support all the
2:10:45way from the base of your neck all the
2:10:46way up through. And that's one of the
2:10:48reasons that I like it cuz I can cut it
2:10:49out and put it right there on me.
2:10:51>> For the average person, if if they had
2:10:53to pick one pillow without you knowing
2:10:55anything about them, which pillow would
2:10:57you pick of these six?
2:10:58>> So, of all of these six Well, if I had
2:11:00my choice, I'd pick this one because
2:11:01this is my favorite. By the way, there's
2:11:03also another feature of this that I
2:11:04think is important to know that people
2:11:06should notice is it's got a zipper.
2:11:09Which means I can change the stuffing
2:11:12and I can pull it out or put it in. So,
2:11:14I can change the height of my pillow.
2:11:16>> And what stuffing is that?
2:11:17>> This is actually a shredded latex.
2:11:19>> Okay.
2:11:20>> Which I really like to sleep on.
2:11:21>> So, what's this pillow called?
2:11:22>> So, this is by a company called Coop.
2:11:25Um and um I like it because of the
2:11:27change in the in the shape as well as
2:11:30the stuffing and the zipper on the side.
2:11:31It really makes it kind of what I would
2:11:33argue to be probably the best pillow out
2:11:35there.
2:11:35>> And what's the worst pillow?
2:11:36>> The worst pillow that we've got here,
2:11:38this one.
2:11:39So, almost no support, right? It's super
2:11:42squishy.
2:11:42>> Yeah.
2:11:42>> Right? We don't We don't We have the
2:11:44knife's edge here. There's not much to
2:11:46it. Also, by the way, it feels like this
2:11:47is made with polyester, which is a heat
2:11:49trapper. Now, let's lie you down on the
2:11:52bed, get you in your starting sleep
2:11:53position, and then I'm going to show you
2:11:54exactly where the pillow should go and
2:11:56what pillow should be for you. So, if
2:11:57you can, lie down for me. Now, what is
2:12:00your starting sleep position? Are you a
2:12:01back sleeper? Are you a side sleeper?
2:12:02Are you a stomach sleeper?
2:12:04>> I start on my stomach and I roll to my
2:12:08right.
2:12:09>> Got it. Okay, perfect. Go ahead and get
2:12:11on your stomach for me.
2:12:11>> way, how weird is that?
2:12:13>> Roughly 75% of sleepers are side
2:12:15sleepers, either right or left. So,
2:12:18you're definitely not don't fall into
2:12:19that category. Another 20% are back
2:12:22sleepers. You're in the like 5% category
2:12:25of stomach sleepers. The reason it's the
2:12:27worst position is when you're lying on
2:12:28your stomach right in the pillow is
2:12:30here, you're pushing on your back here
2:12:33and it causes what's called a splay,
2:12:34which is extra pressure on your lower
2:12:36back and that can give you low back pain
2:12:38over time.
2:12:39>> I only do it for the first like 10
2:12:40minutes.
2:12:41>> And then you rotate?
2:12:42>> And then I rotate onto my side.
2:12:43>> Which side, right or left?
2:12:44>> My right, this side.
2:12:45>> Perfect. So, in all actuality, you
2:12:47actually want to be on your left side
2:12:49because when you lie on your right side,
2:12:51you're actually all of your organs push
2:12:52down onto your stomach and it can leak
2:12:54some of those gastric juices and you end
2:12:56up with something called
2:12:57gastroesophageal reflux disease. So, the
2:12:59way I teach people is right is wrong.
2:13:03So, you don't sleep on your right side,
2:13:04you sleep on your left side if you can.
2:13:06If you can. But let's fit you anyway.
2:13:08Let's go ahead and get you down on your
2:13:09what would be your right side and let's
2:13:11see how you do. Lie down.
2:13:12>> How I normally lie down?
2:13:13>> Yeah.
2:13:14>> Okay, this is how I lie down when I
2:13:15first get in bed for the first time.
2:13:16>> I can't wait to see it.
2:13:17>> I'm like this. I'm usually kind of out
2:13:18the way and I just lay like this for a
2:13:21while.
2:13:21>> Okay, and you have no pillow.
2:13:22>> No pillow.
2:13:23>> Perfect. And then when you rotate to get
2:13:26to your side,
2:13:27>> Yeah.
2:13:27>> show me that.
2:13:28>> I sleep like this on my
2:13:30on my right side.
2:13:31>> Mhm.
2:13:31>> Like roughly like this.
2:13:33>> So, what you'll notice is your shoulder
2:13:34is now up into this part here, so it's
2:13:37still being supported. Your head is
2:13:38fine. And what you'll notice is
2:13:40his head is in line with his sternum,
2:13:42right? His nose is in line there. It's
2:13:44not falling too far, it's not
2:13:46overextended.
2:13:47>> What's my sternum?
2:13:47>> Your sternum is the direct center of
2:13:49your chest. It's the mid like your
2:13:50breastplate is what you would call it,
2:13:52right? Right, sternum in the center. So,
2:13:53you want your nose to be in line with
2:13:55that, which it basically is. You and
2:13:57when I look at your head, your head is
2:13:58not tilted to one side or another, so I
2:14:00know there's no more neck strain. So,
2:14:02that would be the perfect pillow for
2:14:03you. But that happens to be my pillow,
2:14:06so I'm not going to give it to you, but
2:14:07I might get you one if you're nice to
2:14:09me.
2:14:10>> [laughter]
2:14:10>> Thank you. What about these other
2:14:11pillows? What's so the bad one was which
2:14:12one?
2:14:13>> The bad one was this one. So, now go
2:14:15ahead and put yourself on that one.
2:14:18>> Yeah, [clears throat] I'm going too far
2:14:19down.
2:14:19>> Right. And you're not even trying. Like
2:14:21you don't even have to push your head
2:14:23that far and and you can see and your
2:14:25And look, where do you put your arm?
2:14:26Your arm's not supported. Like it's
2:14:28becomes Like people don't realize it,
2:14:29but pillows matter. What I try to tell
2:14:32people is I used to be a runner and when
2:14:34you're a runner, like equipment matters.
2:14:36Like your shoes matter, your music
2:14:38matters, your your dry-fit wear matters.
2:14:40The same holds true with sleep. If you
2:14:42don't have good pillow, good mattress,
2:14:44good sheets, you don't have the right
2:14:46equipment, you're not going to get good
2:14:47sleep.
2:14:48>> That is a terrible pillow.
2:14:49>> I'm telling you.
2:14:50>> really bad pillow.
2:14:50>> Okay.
2:14:52>> So, sleeping on my left side is the
2:14:53correct side.
2:14:54>> With a good pillow.
2:14:56>> With a good pillow.
2:14:56>> But now let's talk about temperature.
2:14:58>> Yeah.
2:14:58>> So, while you're lying here, you may
2:15:01have noticed that there's different
2:15:02temperature on either side of the bed.
2:15:05So, if you feel here,
2:15:07>> Oh, it's warm.
2:15:08>> It is.
2:15:10That's correct. So, when you're lying
2:15:12there, your body will naturally become
2:15:14more warm. So, remember how we were
2:15:16talking that sleep follows the core body
2:15:18temperature cycle, right? And so, as
2:15:20your core body temperature drops, you
2:15:22want your environment to drop with it
2:15:25because if it doesn't and the
2:15:26environment is too hot, you can't fall
2:15:28asleep. So, this is a product, it's
2:15:30called an Orion sleep system and it's a
2:15:33topper that's you're lying on top of,
2:15:35has a thin tube that goes through it.
2:15:37You can't feel the tube. Should feel
2:15:39cool over there and warm over here.
2:15:41>> Mhm.
2:15:41>> It's cold here, it's warm here.
2:15:42>> Exactly. And we And you can rotate it
2:15:44however you want. But what's so
2:15:46fascinating about this is you can
2:15:48actually set it so that it follows your
2:15:49circadian rhythm and it actually can
2:15:52help you stay asleep. The only thing
2:15:54that you as a consumer can manipulate in
2:15:56your sleep, like you can't write a
2:15:57pharmaceutical right prescription, you
2:15:59can't get a CPAP machine, but what you
2:16:01can do is control the temperature. So,
2:16:03you might say to yourself,
2:16:04"When would I want to control the
2:16:05temperature for my sleep?" Well, if you
2:16:07were female and you were 45 years old
2:16:09and you were going through menopause,
2:16:10you really want to control the
2:16:12temperature because hot flashes might
2:16:14wake you up in the middle of the night.
2:16:15Those types of things become very, very
2:16:17important.
2:16:18>> And how much does this cost?
2:16:19>> So, this runs about a little over 2,000
2:16:22US. Um the nearest competitor is
2:16:25significantly more expensive, almost a
2:16:26third more expensive.
2:16:27>> Are you affiliated with them in any way?
2:16:29>> I am affiliated with these guys. I am
2:16:30their chief sleep officer.
2:16:32>> Oh, nice. Didn't know that was your job
2:16:33title.
2:16:33>> I know, I didn't know that. I made up
2:16:35the job title myself. Thank you very
2:16:36much.
2:16:37>> Okay. Is there anything else I should
2:16:38know about the broader room that is
2:16:41pertinent?
2:16:42>> So, when I talk about broader room
2:16:43aspects, I think of the five senses. So,
2:16:45sight, sound, touch, taste, and smell,
2:16:48right? So, sight is light, right? So,
2:16:50clearly you want the lights down as
2:16:52we're starting to get towards bed. Maybe
2:16:54having a dimmer switch or something like
2:16:55that is a great thing to slowly start to
2:16:57do that or cut the overhead lights and
2:17:00just have the bedside table lamps about
2:17:0230 minutes before beds. Again, setting
2:17:04the tone. The next one would be sound.
2:17:06So, it's always better to be quiet, but
2:17:09at the end of the day, sometimes you can
2:17:11have that and sometimes you can't. It's
2:17:13really about the emotionality that you
2:17:15attach to the sound itself. If you get
2:17:17annoyed by something, it's just going to
2:17:19get worse and worse. But if you can
2:17:21think in your head, "Hey, this isn't so
2:17:23annoying anymore." it becomes less
2:17:24problematic. But to be clear, certain
2:17:26volume sounds and certain decibel levels
2:17:29are going to wake you up. And so, you
2:17:30really it's hard to sleep next to a big
2:17:32highway, right? So, you want to have as
2:17:34much sound buffering as you possibly
2:17:37can. So, we did sight, we did sound,
2:17:39let's do touch. Touch is temperature,
2:17:41right? We talked about that. You want
2:17:42the bedroom to be cool. If you can, get
2:17:45the get the air conditioning on. But
2:17:47let's say you've got the air
2:17:48conditioning on, but it's super hot
2:17:50summer and you're not fortunate enough
2:17:52to have an Ooler sitting underneath your
2:17:54sheets. What do you do? Go out and buy a
2:17:56plastic bottle of water, two of them,
2:17:58stick them in the freezer. Then put them
2:18:00into socks and then put them on your
2:18:03sides, okay? So, frozen water bottle
2:18:05inside a pair of inside a sock that sits
2:18:07on your side. It's like a mini air
2:18:09conditioner underneath the covers. It
2:18:11works like a charm. I use this when I
2:18:13travel because a lot of times, you know,
2:18:15the room you can't necessarily change
2:18:17the thermostat or things like that, and
2:18:19it's a great way to be able to do that
2:18:21kind of stuff. Then the final one is
2:18:22smell. So, people always ask me, "Does
2:18:24aromatherapy really work?" Believe it or
2:18:26not, there are at least two
2:18:27scientifically rigorous studies that
2:18:30show that aromatherapy can actually be
2:18:31helpful for you. But, I want to be
2:18:33clear, candles are not the way to do
2:18:36aromatherapy. Fire and sleep do not mix,
2:18:39okay? But, a diffuser, I'm fine with, or
2:18:42a little sachet or a pillow mist, all of
2:18:45those can be quite helpful, and you just
2:18:46put them you spray it on your pillow, or
2:18:48you have it right next to your pillow,
2:18:49and as you breathe in the aroma, two
2:18:52aromas have been shown to be helpful for
2:18:53sleep. One is lavender, surprise,
2:18:55surprise. The other is called
2:18:56ylang-ylang.
2:18:58Um that's one that's actually got some
2:18:59data on it, and I actually think I saw a
2:19:01study on vanilla.
2:19:02>> And should I be sleeping naked?
2:19:04>> Such a good question. So, here's what
2:19:05I'll tell you is you thermoregulate
2:19:08better with less clothing on. So, less
2:19:10barriers allow your body to do exactly
2:19:12what it should do. So, I would argue you
2:19:14definitely could sleep naked, and I I
2:19:16think there's an argument for sleeping
2:19:17naked will allow you to sleep better and
2:19:19thermoregulate better. However, be
2:19:22careful because if you have animals in
2:19:24the bed and you're sleeping naked, what
2:19:27looks like a chew toy to them might be
2:19:29important for you.
2:19:30>> You speaking from experience?
2:19:31>> I'm just letting you know there's
2:19:32problems out there. I'm not saying that
2:19:34I had one of those problems myself.
2:19:36>> [laughter]
2:19:37>> Okay. I think I think we've covered it,
2:19:39right?
2:19:40>> Last one. Socks.
2:19:42>> Oh, socks.
2:19:43>> Everybody wants to know, should I wear
2:19:45socks to bed? So, here's what's
2:19:47interesting is you dissipate heat faster
2:19:49wearing with
2:19:51unsocked foot cuz there's no hair on the
2:19:53bottom of your feet. You ever notice
2:19:55when you're hot at night and you stick
2:19:56your foot out from under the covers, you
2:19:57instantly cool down and everything's
2:19:59okay? So, what I do for some of my
2:20:01patients who have thermoregulation
2:20:03issues is I have them start with socks
2:20:04but no clothes, and then they can remove
2:20:06their socks afterwards as they start to
2:20:08get too warm.
2:20:08>> Okay. Let's go back upstairs and finish
2:20:10this conversation.
2:20:11Important question, Dr. Breus. So, I
2:20:13want to go back upstairs. Thank you so
2:20:14much for that. Super, super useful.
2:20:16>> Sure.
2:20:18>> Dr. Michael Breus, we have a closing
2:20:20tradition on this podcast where the last
2:20:22guest leaves a question for the next
2:20:23guest, not knowing who they're leaving
2:20:24it for.
2:20:24>> Oh, I didn't know this. This is awesome.
2:20:27>> And the question that's been left for
2:20:28you is, if you could have the power to
2:20:31change one thing in the US healthcare
2:20:33system,
2:20:34what would it be and why?
2:20:37>> What I would like to see happen? Well,
2:20:39there's two things. One is a wish and
2:20:41one is, I think, a possible reality. So,
2:20:44the possible reality is, I'd like to see
2:20:46everybody in the United States get
2:20:48tested for sleep apnea. It's so
2:20:51underdiagnosed. There's so many people
2:20:52that are suffering from it. You saw the
2:20:54statistics. I mean, it's it's an
2:20:56epidemic. So, if I could have one thing
2:20:58that happens in the US healthcare
2:20:59system, it would be that
2:21:01somehow or another, somebody at the
2:21:03powers that be say, "Hey, you know what?
2:21:04We need to test everybody for sleep
2:21:06disorders, specifically sleep apnea." I
2:21:08think that would be a great big wish
2:21:10that I would have. The second wish,
2:21:12which I don't know which would ever
2:21:13happen, but I'm going to take my second
2:21:15wish anyway, even though you didn't
2:21:16offer it, is I want everybody to get a
2:21:19great night's sleep. But I want it to
2:21:21all be on the same night.
2:21:24I want everybody in the world to get a
2:21:26really good night's sleep on the Can you
2:21:28imagine what would happen the next day?
2:21:30>> Hm.
2:21:30>> What if What if What if people actually
2:21:32found peace in the warring nations
2:21:35because they actually got a good night's
2:21:37sleep? What do you think innovations
2:21:39would happen with if we get some of the
2:21:41smartest people in the world to just get
2:21:43a good night's sleep? Like, what about
2:21:46charities? What about philanthropy?
2:21:48Like, every single thing that you do,
2:21:50you do better with a good night's sleep.
2:21:53Wouldn't it be cool if everybody got one
2:21:55just for one night and see what happens?
2:21:57>> Nine months later, there'd be a lot of
2:21:58kids
2:21:58>> There would be a lot of kids born for
2:22:00sure.
2:22:00>> [laughter]
2:22:02>> That's so beautiful. Michael, thank you
2:22:03so much for the work that you do. It's
2:22:04so incredibly important because as the
2:22:05numbers and the stats have shown, people
2:22:07are struggling increasingly in the world
2:22:09that we live but through lifestyle
2:22:10factors and the way that we work and all
2:22:12these other factors we talked about with
2:22:13this more than anything and for so many
2:22:15people it's the cause of
2:22:17so much frustration. It is the thing
2:22:19furthest up streams from a lot of the
2:22:20problems that they struggle with in
2:22:22relationships, in their work, in their
2:22:23sex life and everything in between. So,
2:22:26having great educators out in the world
2:22:28that help to demystify this black box is
2:22:31so critical and you're one of the very,
2:22:32very best I've ever met and in part
2:22:34because you're so unbelievably engaging,
2:22:35you're a great storyteller.
2:22:37You've you've been in the field doing
2:22:38this with patients of wide varieties but
2:22:41also you bring that psychology element
2:22:42which is of quite rare to people that
2:22:44talk about the clinical side of sleep.
2:22:46You have several great resources if
2:22:48people want to continue to um
2:22:50learn more. I would highly recommend um
2:22:53people, if you've gotten to this point
2:22:54in the conversation, I would highly
2:22:56recommend going over to your YouTube
2:22:57channel now and watching some of your
2:23:00top videos cuz I found them to be
2:23:01fascinating and I learned so much more.
2:23:02We weren't We weren't able to go through
2:23:04everything today but if [laughter]
2:23:05there's specific things like waking up
2:23:07in the middle of the night, um your
2:23:09videos about that have six or seven
2:23:10million views over on your channel and
2:23:12they're very, very focused on that
2:23:13subject. So, if there's specific things
2:23:15that you felt weren't covered in this
2:23:16conversation, right now go over to
2:23:18Michael's channel. Um it'll be linked
2:23:20below and um watch more there. But also,
2:23:23if you're a reader and you love to read
2:23:25and that's your thing, which I know is
2:23:26great for sleep,
2:23:28>> [laughter]
2:23:28>> two great books here in front of me, The
2:23:29Power of When, Discover Your Chronotype
2:23:31and the Best Time to Eat, Lunch, Ask for
2:23:33a Raise, Have Sex, Write a Novel, Take
2:23:35Your Meds and More.
2:23:37And also, this book here, Sleep, Drink,
2:23:39Breathe which talks broadly about the
2:23:41simple daily habits for profound
2:23:43long-term health. Michael, thank you.
2:23:46>> Thank you. This has been so much fun. I
2:23:48wasn't exactly sure what to expect, but
2:23:50it was lovely. I really enjoyed it.
2:23:52Everybody here is fantastic, and just
2:23:54want to wish everybody sweet dreams.
2:23:56>> YouTube have this new crazy algorithm
2:23:58where they know exactly what video you
2:24:00would like to watch next based on AI and
2:24:02all of your viewing behavior. And the
2:24:04algorithm says that this video is the
2:24:07perfect video for you. It's different
2:24:09for everybody looking right now. Check
2:24:11this video out, I bet you you might love
2:24:13it.

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of Sleep Doctor: If You Wake Up At 3AM, DO NOT Do This! by The Diary Of A CEO, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 32,926 words across 4,951 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.